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	<title>Comments on: Answering Africa&#8217;s Call</title>
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	<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2005/02/28/answering-africas-call/</link>
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		<title>By: george</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2005/02/28/answering-africas-call/comment-page-1/#comment-2746</link>
		<dc:creator>george</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Mar 2005 22:57:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=342#comment-2746</guid>
		<description>I agree wholeheartedly.  But I think the implications of Darfur are not well understood, even by people who care.  It&#039;s not Rwanda, where a few hundred lightly-armed peacekeepers might have saved hundreds of thousands of lives.  And it&#039;s not even Somalia, where we were actually pretty close to success against those ragtag militias.  Sudan is a real state with a real military, kept in decent shape by its sponsors, chiefly Russia.  It includes a state of the art (albeit small) air force and a significant number of ground forces.  Sudan&#039;s leaders have said that they will treat any international intervention in Darfur as an act of war.  

Sometime in the past year, The New Republic examined what exactly an international intervention in Darfur might look like.  Their estimate was quite a bit more daunting than, say, Nick Kristof&#039;s.  First we&#039;d have to establish safe havens and safe corridors for refugees against marauding militias, which means ground troops.  And we&#039;d have to neutralize Sudan&#039;s air force (which has been used against villages and could also be used against foreign troops), which means control of air space and bombing air defense targets -- which also means collateral damage.  And since the UN Security Council would never sign off (China would veto, and Russia might also), this action would have to be undertaken by some other grouping.  

So we&#039;ve got basically a full-scale invasion, plus an indefinite occupation and/or regime change, implemented by an ad-hoc coalition of nations without UN approval.  Sound familiar?

Of course it might turn out to be easier than that.  But given the stance of the Sudanese government, probably not -- and as we all found out in Iraq, we need to be prepared for the worst case before undertaking to go in at all.  

Mipe, I don&#039;t doubt your intentions in keeping this issue on the front burner.  It&#039;s an ongoing travesty that the world will not address this atrocity in full view.  But my question is, how many of those who insist we must do something about Darfur are prepared to see the US mount something that looks quite a bit like the invasion of Iraq?  And out of that group, how many supported the actual invasion of Iraq?  I count myself in both groups, but I suspect I&#039;m in the minority.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree wholeheartedly.  But I think the implications of Darfur are not well understood, even by people who care.  It&#8217;s not Rwanda, where a few hundred lightly-armed peacekeepers might have saved hundreds of thousands of lives.  And it&#8217;s not even Somalia, where we were actually pretty close to success against those ragtag militias.  Sudan is a real state with a real military, kept in decent shape by its sponsors, chiefly Russia.  It includes a state of the art (albeit small) air force and a significant number of ground forces.  Sudan&#8217;s leaders have said that they will treat any international intervention in Darfur as an act of war.  </p>
<p>Sometime in the past year, The New Republic examined what exactly an international intervention in Darfur might look like.  Their estimate was quite a bit more daunting than, say, Nick Kristof&#8217;s.  First we&#8217;d have to establish safe havens and safe corridors for refugees against marauding militias, which means ground troops.  And we&#8217;d have to neutralize Sudan&#8217;s air force (which has been used against villages and could also be used against foreign troops), which means control of air space and bombing air defense targets &#8212; which also means collateral damage.  And since the UN Security Council would never sign off (China would veto, and Russia might also), this action would have to be undertaken by some other grouping.  </p>
<p>So we&#8217;ve got basically a full-scale invasion, plus an indefinite occupation and/or regime change, implemented by an ad-hoc coalition of nations without UN approval.  Sound familiar?</p>
<p>Of course it might turn out to be easier than that.  But given the stance of the Sudanese government, probably not &#8212; and as we all found out in Iraq, we need to be prepared for the worst case before undertaking to go in at all.  </p>
<p>Mipe, I don&#8217;t doubt your intentions in keeping this issue on the front burner.  It&#8217;s an ongoing travesty that the world will not address this atrocity in full view.  But my question is, how many of those who insist we must do something about Darfur are prepared to see the US mount something that looks quite a bit like the invasion of Iraq?  And out of that group, how many supported the actual invasion of Iraq?  I count myself in both groups, but I suspect I&#8217;m in the minority.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=2746', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: MPH</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2005/02/28/answering-africas-call/comment-page-1/#comment-2712</link>
		<dc:creator>MPH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Mar 2005 19:52:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=342#comment-2712</guid>
		<description>Wow...

&quot;In the name of national security, we need to address the underlying contributors to the spread of global terrorism &quot;

As Justin Raimando notes:
&quot;In today&#039;s constricted political &quot;debate&quot; Ã¢â‚¬â€œ especially when it comes to foreign policy Ã¢â‚¬â€œ only two flavors are allowed: right-wing neocon and left-wing neocon.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8220;In the name of national security, we need to address the underlying contributors to the spread of global terrorism &#8221;</p>
<p>As Justin Raimando notes:<br />
&#8220;In today&#8217;s constricted political &#8220;debate&#8221; Ã¢â‚¬â€œ especially when it comes to foreign policy Ã¢â‚¬â€œ only two flavors are allowed: right-wing neocon and left-wing neocon.&#8221;<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=2712', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: Wayne</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2005/02/28/answering-africas-call/comment-page-1/#comment-2685</link>
		<dc:creator>Wayne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Mar 2005 15:59:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=342#comment-2685</guid>
		<description>You&#039;ll be smoking a turd in hell Ted</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;ll be smoking a turd in hell Ted<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=2685', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: A Hermit</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2005/02/28/answering-africas-call/comment-page-1/#comment-2677</link>
		<dc:creator>A Hermit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Mar 2005 15:21:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=342#comment-2677</guid>
		<description>Clinton didn&#039;t intervene in Rwanda in part because of the very vocal opposition from the Right to the American intervention in Somalia. A chorus which was repeated when he did intervene in the Balkans.

Time to stop the partisan bickering and ideological games and start recognizing our responsibility to our neighbours in Africa.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clinton didn&#8217;t intervene in Rwanda in part because of the very vocal opposition from the Right to the American intervention in Somalia. A chorus which was repeated when he did intervene in the Balkans.</p>
<p>Time to stop the partisan bickering and ideological games and start recognizing our responsibility to our neighbours in Africa.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=2677', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: Laura</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2005/02/28/answering-africas-call/comment-page-1/#comment-2642</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Feb 2005 22:09:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=342#comment-2642</guid>
		<description>Ted, stop.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ted, stop.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=2642', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: dearkitty</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2005/02/28/answering-africas-call/comment-page-1/#comment-2641</link>
		<dc:creator>dearkitty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Feb 2005 22:08:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=342#comment-2641</guid>
		<description>Some African history, misrepresented up to now:
http://tinyurl.com/5fxo7</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some African history, misrepresented up to now:<br />
<a href="http://tinyurl.com/5fxo7" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/5fxo7</a><a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=2641', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: Mipe</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2005/02/28/answering-africas-call/comment-page-1/#comment-2628</link>
		<dc:creator>Mipe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Feb 2005 19:22:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=342#comment-2628</guid>
		<description>Ted, as always, thank you for commenting on the blog. The point of the post was not to start a partisan battle. And the argument of &quot;That president did it too!&quot; in no way justifies the moral indecency of continuing to let regions of Africa fester in poverty, disease, and warfare. Some issues that call to our basic humanity should know no colors -- be they race or political ones.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ted, as always, thank you for commenting on the blog. The point of the post was not to start a partisan battle. And the argument of &#8220;That president did it too!&#8221; in no way justifies the moral indecency of continuing to let regions of Africa fester in poverty, disease, and warfare. Some issues that call to our basic humanity should know no colors &#8212; be they race or political ones.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=2628', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: Ted</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2005/02/28/answering-africas-call/comment-page-1/#comment-2621</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Feb 2005 18:45:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=342#comment-2621</guid>
		<description>Who was President when the genocide in Rwanda was happening?  Oh yeah, it was our countries first black president, Slick Willy!  He sure wasn&#039;t too worried about it back then.  He was focused on other things.(wink,wink)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who was President when the genocide in Rwanda was happening?  Oh yeah, it was our countries first black president, Slick Willy!  He sure wasn&#8217;t too worried about it back then.  He was focused on other things.(wink,wink)<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=2621', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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