“Against People of Faith”
By on Apr 25th, 2005 at 1:20 pm
“Against People of Faith”
“Before boarding his flight to Crawford to meet with President Bush Monday, Saudi Arabia’s Crown Prince Abdullah presided over the arrest of 40 Pakistani Christians on Friday. Their crime? The Pakistanis were caught praying in a private home in the capital Riyadh in violation of the state’s strictly enforced religious law that bans all non-Muslim worship.”
President Bush holds hands with Saudi Crown Prince Abdullah at his ranch in Crawford, Texas.
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[...] I wanna hold your hand
http://thinkprogress.org/index.php?p=711
Posted: Apr 25, 05 4:15 pm by Kevin K.
Catchegory: Blog
Comments: 0/permalink
April 25th, 2005 at 8:15 pmTrackbacks: < [...]
Maybe we can send Ann Coulter over there to straighten them heathens out. Or the Bush bimbettes.
But on a completely different subject, what is this thing Dub has about kissing bald headed guys and holding hands?? It’s past the point of being creepy. It’s downright embarassing to the country.
April 25th, 2005 at 1:36 pmIt is a common form of showing friendship in the ME. I do find it funny and ironic that a culture that is completely gay phobic does so many things that we in the west conser to be gay tolerant or even friendly.
April 25th, 2005 at 1:45 pmJust another blaring example of the hipocrisy in our leadership, no wonder people around the world hate us so much… :(
April 25th, 2005 at 1:57 pmI’m not talking about the kiss on the cheek bit. I know that is customary in MANY places, not just the Middle East, I’m talking about the rubbing the knoggin, and a kiss on the head. That’s freaking weird. I’ve never heard that men holding hands was a custom anywhere, except maybe ‘Frisco, and I don’t have a problen with that. But even if it is a custom in SA, last time I looked, Crawford was in Texas, not Saudi Arabia. Has he forgotten that’s where he’s from? Or is it just a bullshit act on his part to seem like he is sensitive to other people? Does he ever think about being sensitive to people right here in the good ‘ol US of A?
April 25th, 2005 at 2:17 pmI was referring primarily to holding hands. You see it alot over there and it isn’t a sexuality thing.
April 25th, 2005 at 2:31 pmok, I didn’t know that. Unlike the Shrub I can admit when I made a mistake or don’t know something. But why is he trying to act like he cares about the customs of other cultures, when his actions so clearly indicate a total distain for anyone other than those who are “down with him’?
April 25th, 2005 at 2:43 pmDubya planted a wet sloppy kiss on Joe Lieberman’s cheek on the floor of the Senate a while back, now he’s holding hands with this Arab dude. Ok, ok, guys holding hands in the ME is no big deal but kissing male American politicians right out in front of God and everybody? It’s enough to make people start wondering, don’t you think?
April 25th, 2005 at 4:03 pmspeaking of people of faith, does anyone besides me think the new pope was separated at birth from his twin?
April 25th, 2005 at 4:10 pmIt just goes to show the level of hypocrisy that exists in the World According to Bush…..coddle the Bible-thumpers at home and forsake all others, especially if it’s your Saudi buddy..I have more respect for the insurgents, at least I know they despise me, Bush and Co. and our government at large is the enemy that greets you with a warm handshake and a smile……
April 25th, 2005 at 4:34 pmHe was a cheerleader, he has a tiny yipper dog, he has a French tailor and a French pastry chef, he chickened out of going to war, “bush” of course means “pussy” – and he (quietly) supports civil unions. He’s either a major league pansy (by southern right-wing macho standards) or maybe he just needs a more freindly environment so he can finally come out. His daughters have attended gay weddings before, so he has nearby access to a viable support network, along with the millions of other gay hypocrites in the GOP (Gays On Parade).
April 25th, 2005 at 4:55 pmOuch. I think I started something.
April 25th, 2005 at 5:01 pmHow could HE be president?
April 25th, 2005 at 5:10 pmI just don’t get it.
I am disgusted.
If I remember correctly, wasn’t that James Gannon (Guckert or whatever) guy a male escort? Maybe he had all that foreknowledge about what the president was going to do because he was all chummy with the president… who knows?
Isn’t it funny (sarcastically speaking of course) that Hitler was a Jew, or that many of the gay-bashers in the gov’t are gay? We are so ready to condemn those people who we really are in secret… Sad, sad day… :(
April 25th, 2005 at 5:36 pmWhen will we as a people rise up and take our country back? Bar none, Bush is absolutely our worst president ever. There was never anyone this bad in our history to compare him with. You would have to go back Nazi Germany or to pre-revolutionairy France or the reign of the Emperor Caligula of Rome to draw any comparisons. What happened to those “civilizations”? THAT will happen to us!. I just hope it happens in my lifetime so I can see our new country afterwards.
April 25th, 2005 at 6:59 pmI wonder if this is the first time since bushie helped the prince leave the US on 9/11 that they have been able to visit each other?
April 25th, 2005 at 7:35 pmI lived in SA, and I agree with kindness, many things that are considered gay gestures in the states are used there to show appreciation and friendship. (If you want to be ashamed of Bush, find something else that really deserves that!)
Also I wonder why do many people hate the prince so much! Whenever the US asks him to lower the gas prices he does just that! the only people who have the right to like or dislike him are citizens of SA!
April 25th, 2005 at 7:47 pmIt just seems more and more surreal with the news of each succeeding day, but its more real than most complacent Americans want to accept. Bush is probably more interested in the money/stocks/shares he has in oil dealings with the prince, which will pay richly towards his post-presidency “retirement” fund.
As for taking back our nation- so far a pipe dream only (sorry to any hippies). Look around, can you imagine an effective amount of the complacent/ignorant Americans that you see or deal with day in and day out getting off their keisters and demanding reform and accountability? Maybe on American Idol, but otherwise?
April 25th, 2005 at 8:46 pmSpeaking as a homosexual from Saudi Arabia, I am offended by these pictures. First of all, it suggests that OMG THE PRINCE IS GOING OUT WITH THE PRESIDENT! Pictures of two men holding hands shows that it’s supposedly “bad” to be a homosexual. Basically, whoever posted that picture is the homophobe here.
In any case, this blame-it-all-on-the-Saudis bull faeces has gone too far. Each one of you knows very well that a) Saudi did not benefit from 9/11 (show me how and I will believe you) and b) guess what? No convincing proof that there were Saudis on those planes. Again, show me a convincing evidence and I will believe you.
P.S. blurry videos of airports with no date/time stamp on them and/or blurry videos of “bin Laden” with a smaller nose and a chubbier face (lol) do not count.
April 25th, 2005 at 10:43 pmI love jesus and i cant belive bush can sleep at night. Please america wake up before its too late
April 25th, 2005 at 10:49 pmAmericans love war, money and killing “the enemy”. Bush gives them all that!! That’s why he is their hero.
Of course Bush has terrible morals and ethics, but foolish US christians somehow believe he actually follows the 10 commanments, when he really flauts them.
April 26th, 2005 at 1:00 amIt didn’t show the Prince afterward, vigorously washing his hands with lye soap!
April 26th, 2005 at 1:55 amProblem is, the country is so dependant on this source of hydrocarbon, that Dubya would kiss this guy anywhere he asked him to… regardless of the fact that Saudi has one of the largest number of terrorist groups, supporters, etc… they are “allies”… c’mon… it is all about resources and money… oh! and now kissing…
April 26th, 2005 at 2:33 amI remember when the people of our country respected the president, as a spokesman and a leader. We were told that in years to come people would loose that respect, and the nation would weaken. I suppose this website hosts those rusty links in our chain.
April 26th, 2005 at 3:13 amYou down fools. It’s not about homosexuality or customs or anything like that. This article was brought to our attention to show that two leaders who claim to have strong religious beliefs (and rule with the authority that their religion gives them) have a relationship that is in conflict with those beliefs. How can such a outspoken Christian like Bush tolerate the actions of Prince Abdullah if he is so strong in his faith? Either he is flip flopping in the biggest way he can or he never really believed in God anyway and was just saying it to get the Bible vote.
April 26th, 2005 at 6:19 amIt is hard to believe there were 40 Pakistani christians in Saudi Arabia. Check your sources. A lot of “christian news” is not true but serves special purpose. If one would study Islam it becomes very clear why it is almost impossible for a muslim to embrace christianity especially the evangelical born again type.
April 26th, 2005 at 9:10 am…which cheek(s) did Dub kiss???
April 26th, 2005 at 9:33 amLeave him alone. It’s springtime and HE’S IN LOVE!
April 26th, 2005 at 10:38 amMr Moore and others who take it upon themselves to inform the public of wrong doings in the world are taking good care of us. Waking up in the morning to hear a voice in their heads telling them they must go on. Everything happens for a reason. A very specific reason. Thank you to all who listen to the voice of their conscience. Thank you all who profess the truth. Good will prevail. It will happen slowly and without much reward to us. Until the end.I hope my son now 4 will be able to live in a corporation free,war free, peaceFULL world. HA you say? Well dreams can come true. We all make a difference. Now go out even by yourself and change some minds and hearts!!!!!
April 26th, 2005 at 11:27 amSo let me understand this Greg, you expect me to respect the president no matter what? Well, respect is earned, not inherent. The only thing I respect about this president is the fact that he was able to make it as far as he has with so little integrity. I know that’s twisted but it’s kind of admirable in a way. Anyhow, this picture is a perfect representation of the hypocracy that is so prevalent in American politics. It’s too bad there are so may voters too distracted with their own agendas to realize the damage these fools are causing. It’s not the supreme court that is out of control Mr. DeLay, it’s the government.
April 26th, 2005 at 12:13 pmMary (#29), Corporate free America? Why? It was a corporation that built that computer you wrote this on. It was a corporation that provided the medicine you need. It was a corporation your fat buddy Michael Moore started to get you all your “information”. Corporations are what make America prosper.
April 26th, 2005 at 12:22 pmPS When did Christian bashing become so en vougue?
Wouldn’t it be ironic if we found the President to be gay? Perhaps that’s why his record seems to be pretty good as regards to extra marital relationships, if it is. We can only hope that more and more of his idiosyncrasies show up so even those people who need dynamite set under them to think without their bias that “Bush IS God” and no questions can be asked that would undermine his hold over the minds of the unthinking masses. There are many of us who believe him to be mentally unstable as well as a liar.
April 26th, 2005 at 12:27 pmActually the inventors of the personal computers were liberals, leftists, some even socialists. The personal computer was not invented by a corporation, the mainframe was.
April 26th, 2005 at 12:54 pmdoes anyone know the date at which this photo was taken?
April 26th, 2005 at 1:06 pmQ: What is the root of America’s political agenda?
a) Money
b) Greed
c) Power
d) All of the above.
Correct answer: d
Once upon a time….our government was one; of the people, by the people and for the people.
Todays problem in America is IGNORANCE. A favorite saying of mine is “we are the most educated fools on the planet!” Perhaps it is because we too are obsessed with money, greed and power.
April 26th, 2005 at 1:06 pmMikey < #32), let us not forget Enron, WorldCom, Martha Stewart, too not name a few. I will not concede that all corporations are bad, a few are actually good. i.e. Home Depot / Habitat for Humanity and a few others.
Basically I have to disagree with you, Corps are not what makes America prosper, people are. Corporations are laying off people in the millions how is america prospering? All in the name of pennies in dividends in stock. See MSFT 2003 .16 per share.
Corps save money by lay-offs and cutting employee benefits. Then to add insult to injury they outsource jobs. Again how is America prospering when the workers who built my computer cannot afford to buy one?
April 26th, 2005 at 1:07 pmI think that it is really nice that we can all agree that the Christian religion should be upheld and defended, when it opens up the way to bash the President of the United States.
Yahoo!! Let’s keep up the good work!
April 26th, 2005 at 1:42 pmGood to know that George supports those poor Christians who are being persecuted by his Saudi buddies… Wait he doesn’t support them, in fact he doesn’t even care. Poor old Georgie tells so many lies he can’t even get his own religious policies straight. Either that or he is just to busy being bribed to look the other way.
April 26th, 2005 at 2:28 pmI could care less though because in 1 more year I am probably moving to Canada so I can watch America go down the crapper from a safe distance.
Rosemary– I think he kissed on the lower check. Bush has been brown noseing down there all his life. Nothing new
April 26th, 2005 at 2:56 pmMr. Myers –
Why wait a year? Go to Canada now, I beg you! Bush may not be a President of your liking, but that doesn’t mean you have to give up on the country. I felt Clinton was a do-nothing President who had no morals what so ever, but I never felt like moving to Mexico. So you think Bush is a liar and is bribed…I think you’re living in the lefty dream world and Canada deserves you.
April 26th, 2005 at 3:05 pmThen again, what do I know? I must be one of those uninformed, ignorant Bill O’Reilly fans who doesn’t realize the “truth” because I don’t regularly spend time in the blogosphere and believe everything Michael Moore says. Thank god for that!
I can understand why Muhammad Shurafa would have a problem with any idea of Christians being in Saudia, but tough sunshine they are. The mistake the Buning Bush is making is not standing by his Christain brothers and sister, unless of course his Bible is based on money and exploitation.
April 26th, 2005 at 3:18 pmWhat would you rather see Bush kissing a prince or Rice kissing a prince.
Wait to gas cost $7 a gallon like it does in UK under the B`lair of Westminster
Luckily, I already live outside the US! I have been watching this fiasco in total disbelief. Having just returned from a trip to the “bible belt” I’m more thankful than ever to be back home off in the UK.
Charles if you think things are crazy, just go outside the country and you’ll get an even better, more shocking perspective! At least outside the US, you get the full story and not the Bush Regime (aka Fox News) propaganda reports!
April 26th, 2005 at 3:33 pmWhy don’t Bush supporters tell us what Bush has been doing right, rather than getting mad at people who don’t like him? Is it possible that he hasnt done anything right?
April 26th, 2005 at 3:34 pmI thought this article was about free gas for my SUV?
April 26th, 2005 at 3:40 pmi got something up my ass for bush! he wants to kiss some ass kiss mine! while he’s at it he can give bin laden a hand job while taking the prince’s member up his wazoo!
when is this kook gonna die? can’t wait! take back america! kill a republican!
April 26th, 2005 at 3:46 pmI cannot understand what is that makes libs so militant and mean-spirited. When Clinton was President you never heard people “moving to Canada” (as if you really would). Or how he was embarrassing our country but lying about Monica. Or even how he was running a corrupt government when he met with heads of state (that is part of the job guys) I love this country and do not care if George Bush is President or George Clooney is. I believe in the ideals that freedom is for all and your life is what you make of it. In Canada the socialism agenda is way of life (more or less…look at their health care). I believe in the American ideal that you cannot help people that refuse to help themselves. The government ruins lives by giving handouts with no expectation of self improvement. Of course this isn’t the case for everyone, I’m sure someone will post a scenario of someone who truely needs 100% support. I just still am amazed by the disrespect of the office of the president (not George Bush as President), and the militant ways of the liberal mindset. Think before you scream. What are you doing to make the world a better place? More time can be used to volunteer to feed the homeless than constantly bitch about Bush. (yes I do volunteer and I’m conservative, Yikes!) IN the immortal words of Rodney King, “Can’t we all just get along?” God Bless America (that means you)
April 26th, 2005 at 3:55 pmWhat are we arguing here about?
April 26th, 2005 at 3:59 pmThat Bush is a bad president? After 5 years of presidency, war in Iraq, September 11., bad propositions about SS, and almost nothing to show for, is there really anybody else left who think that he’s a good president???????
I’ll criticize president or anybody else for that matter 1000 times, because that’s what this country’s all about; being free not to agree with anybody and not be afraid to say it out loud.
As for those that want to leave US, I would have one question: if I would come knocking on your door and invited you to join marsh of protest against Bush and his domestic and foreign policies, would you do it? Instead of deserting your country, (even though I can understand your frustration), is there something you can do to change the situation? If there is, try to do it, take the part of the blame that all of us have for the situation as it is.
They say that every country has a president it deserves. If that is true, than we should start asking ourselves what we have or haven’t done to deserve Bush for president.
To the person that wants to move to Canada, you have the freedom to do so and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise or make comments about you giving up. People move out of the country for many reasons and your reason is your own. I’m moving out of my city simply because I just hate the dang place and I want something different.
April 26th, 2005 at 4:06 pmSecond…I think Bush being a hypocrite is nothing new and i’m just not surprised anymore. And to the guy requesting evidence of the hijackers being Saudi….well no one here is capable of providing evidence themselves (atleast….i’m not) since we can’t get classified evidence from the government. I hope you do understand that…right? Anyway…here’s an interesting article from the AP. http://www.cp.org/english/online/full/elxn_en/030802/p080202A.html
SFW. He held hands, thats no biggie. This is the typical attitude over here, concerntrating on non issues, while the world goes to hell. No one looks at the children dying in Iraq, in Africa, the spread of AIDS, global warming etc. No, we wanna look at Bush holding hands with another hypocrate. I mean we know he is not gay, he has kids. So what is the impication of his holding hands. Does that mean more kids in Iraq die? That would be wrong, does that mean more kids live. Hey lets all hold hands. People who come to this website are consentious, so dont be distracted by non issues. Americn media specializes in all that, dont be fooled, be smart. Look at the reacent pope issue!! This is my take on that issue…
(By the way, that’s pure satire)
the pope is a tool used by the media to distrtact americans and others from real issues. the pope issue is used to exploit the short attention span on people. one old man superseeds the death of countless in the world. their deaths due to famine, AIDS, gun vilence, drugs, war are ignored. hence the pope becomes poop, a poster child for the media as they send ordinary citizens in a terri like coma. they want this state to persist, and as of yet have not decided to pull the plug. that option lies with tom delay, while he plays golf with our money in europe. it lies with bush, as he fires up a joint which cheney lit with his new energy policy, while global enviorment decides to take a poop on us. this is done by sending hurricane ivan which sent the likes of me spending hours on the interstate, where we took refuge in texas. the motel was a patel, endorsed by modi. modi in turn is endorsed by advani, who wants to direct attention to laloo, while the indian news media takes a giant shit on indians. in the mean time baazi is bought by ebay, which will then sell images of the virgin mary for 28,000 bucks so the jesus loving, gun tooting, nascar loving americans cheer. they in turn vote bush in for the second time while he bombs the bejjezus out of iraq for oil. in the mean time india goes to iran with china. want me to go on????????
April 26th, 2005 at 4:54 pmMove to Canada? Why? And leave this beautiful nation to the redneck-Republicans to run into the ground like they did their segment of the country? GOD, we need all the smart, liberal-minded, patriotic, USA-lovin Americans to put the country back into the hnads of the people it belongs to. Take it back from the south.
I say, stay and fight those bigots. Who else will save this counrty from the facists?
And honey, there IS no respect for the office of Prezzie BECAUSE of the “Republican Run Clinton Bashing” that lasted eight years and included an impeachment proceeding at our expense!
There is vitrol hatred for this prezzie simply b/c it’s left-over from the Republicans. There never was this great divide between parties and partisan bickering of this magnitude UNTIL the Republicans started the downhill slide.
You set the rules honey, now LIVE BY THEM.
April 26th, 2005 at 5:06 pmOh, just by the way, I am an Indian residing in the US, I love this country and what it stands for. Most of my friends are Americans and Europeans, so we get a chance to discuss things from many perspectives. Most people in the US dont get news, they get propoganda. I think the fact that y’all make the effort if awesome, and you do have the power to incorporate change. You can vote, but please ensure your vote is counted. To the person moving to Canada, I submit sir, while I understand your frustration, one does not desert one’s own country when it needs you the most. I’m not a citizen, but I love this land I reside in, love its freedom and its people. I come from a democracy, and I believe that power lies with the people. It takes time to change things, and is often frustrating, but it can be done. I hope it will be done soon, for each person residing in this country has tremendous equity in the nation. Perhaps we need to go beyond voting, take it upon your self to inform the mis-informed. Discuss, dont debate. This is not a war, you dont need to win. Its a consensus. We are all in the same boat, it is our collective future in question. The future is now, and all of you, all of us are the future. God Bless America, and humanity, for we indeed, are in a dire need for a blessing.
April 26th, 2005 at 5:08 pmAre you f@#king serious Akhil? Do us all a favor and move to Canada. There you can receive medical marijuana for your condition. Hopefully that’ll stop you from dreaming up such wild fairy tales.
April 26th, 2005 at 5:11 pmChris,
I guess you are talking about the pope!! I was just kidding, and as to why I wrote that paticular fairy tale was to point out that we are investing our attention in a single point. While his death is tragic, there are bigger issues out there. The issue of global warming does exist, AIDS exists, kids die of hunger, loose their parents and limbs in Iray, Somalia, Kashmir is a huge issue, depleting oil reserves is an issue, Osama needs to be found and brought to justice, the Kyoto Act is an issue. Thats what needs to be brought to the table. That piece that I wrote was meant to “shock and awe”, and is as fictitious as WMD’s. (well…never mind…lol). Do you understand what I mean. If I offended you, I apologize, to the contrary I was hoping that it would make you laugh. As to moving for Canada, lets leave that at my discretion. Finally, I dont smoke weed, but I wont knowck people who do. Its a personal choice, and I wont have it argued by Tom Delay!! Peace
April 26th, 2005 at 5:41 pmTo anyone who cares,
April 26th, 2005 at 6:01 pmto anyone who cares;
April 26th, 2005 at 6:04 pmIf democracy flourishes in iraq and spreads throughout the region would you consider Bush a success?
April 26th, 2005 at 6:15 pmmikey (#32)
No. Corporations aren’t bad for America…until they leave America. A good argument could be made that today’s brand of capitalism is thriving off the back of communism. Where else can American companies go to escape paying fair wages and treating workers fairly than a huge communist nation like China? Yeah, corporations made America. But they forgot where they came from when they stopped giving a shit about anybody else but themselves. Any corporation that evades taxes or takes advantage of the communist labor system doesn’t deserve to fly the American flag. And we shouldn’t buy from them. Of course, that’s nearly impossible since most everything is made in China these days. America’s days as a prosperous nation are surely numbered. China is eating our lunch.
April 26th, 2005 at 6:18 pmI am a young American, living outside the country for work. I am 23 and have lived outside the United States for approximately four years, on an off, and can honestly say that it has caused me to love my country even further, regardless of who the president is. It’s time to stop bickering about President Bush – he’s going to be the president for the next couple of years, and the union will survive. About the Iraq War – I understand completely that people are upset that soldiers are dying everyday there – it upsets me as well. But let me tell you a short story that changed how I felt about the war: I was on a public bus, heading into downtown where I live in Germany, when an Iraqi man interrupted me and asked if I was American. I usually hesitate, especially (call me a racist if you wish) when they are of Middle-Eastern decent, but I, for some reason, decided on that day to be honest. He smiled and said “I love America. I came to Germany five years ago with my family to escape Sadamm, and I’m hoping in a year or so I can return to my country. Thanks to you.”
April 26th, 2005 at 6:54 pmAmerican soliders and Americans in general are making a lot of sacrifices for this war, and I know it’s a hard pill to swallow, but we should not be beating each other up about this issue. I understand the anti-War point of view, and I think it’s time to open your minds up a little and maybe consider the idea that a free Iraq is better for the region and the world. Furthermore, as someone whose grandparents were in concentration camps during the Second World War, I tell you this: they wish, along with I, that America had struck Germany preemptively…it would have saved 50 million people from their deaths, and millions from endless, unimaginable suffering in the camps. Saddam was torturing his own people, raping women in front of their husbands, and torturing children in front of their parents. If you know this is happening, and do nothing to stop it, shame on you! You live your comfortable lives in America, without a worry of that magnetude on your mind. I disagree that it is the role of America to save the world, but I certainly agree that, as the only standing superpower left, we have certain obligations to protect the weak and innocent in this world.
Instead of showing the worst in you (relentlessly calling Bush names, telling people to “kill republicans,” and throwing objects at conservative that you don’t agree with), try using that energy in positive, constructive ways such as volunteering, teaching young children, or spending some time with an old person. The America that I know from living both inside and outside her borders doesn’t stand for hate, and the Americans I know (and reputation we have around the world) are some of the most friendliest, caring and giving people on this earth. Maybe it’s time we start to show it.
I doubt democracy flourishes in Iraq, please visit http://www.buzzflash.com and read the blog by th e girl in Iraq.
Michael,
Democracy is not a gift to be bestowed, becuase then it is not appreciated. Democracy is won by making sacrifises, investing personal equity in a land you believe in, for the greater good of your family and fellow citizens.
Saddam was a prick, but he was attacked on the basis of WMD’s which vanished without a trace. He was not attacked because of his humanitarian shortcomings. The thinly vieled quest for oil conitnues, and will continue. The man at the helm thinks naught about the country, in fact he wants to drill in Alaska. The America you know is what is a perception of an American. Americans are perhaps the friendliest, and nicest people on earth. I concur. Yet the world fails to grasp as to why they elected Bush. The sheer reasoning eludes them, and as I keep explaining to my friends in Europe and Asia, they were manupilated, but they dont know it. And you can blame the media for that.
April 26th, 2005 at 7:21 pmIf the gas was this high and President Clinton were holding hands with the oil prince this would be reported as the biggest scandal allegations dan Burton would have the investigating commitee at the tables .check the no news on prince bush and his royal buddie. Momsee barbee must be dancing. My boy!!!!
April 26th, 2005 at 7:24 pmThey are only holding hands because the prince showed bush what was under the dress. :)
Seriously the reason this picture pi##e# me off is that while the saudi diva was visiting on Monday the gas in my city went up 6 cents in 8 hours. Instead of kissing the saudis buttocks bush should be sticking his boot up there.
Everytime I see something like this I feel so sorry for the ignorant conseratives.
As for what the saudis have gained since 9-11. How about the fact that oil has risen to $50 a barrel. They have become fatter cats due to their stooge in the white house and using terrorism as an excuse.
April 26th, 2005 at 10:51 pmi don’t believe that WMD was the sole reason for entering Iraq. president bush basically declared war on the entire world after 9-11 stating that he would go after any country harboring terrorism. he chose to make an example of iraq, a rather easy target due to Saddam’s outright defiance of the UN. also, saddam hated america and agrees with terrorist ideology, thus making him a state sponsor of terrorism, by feeding that ideology to the nations young and allowing them to fester in hate. it doesn’t help that he praised the 9-11 attacks either. to critics and cynics i can see how this looks like the perfect opportunity to cover an ulterior oil intention for invasion, and it may very well be, i just don’t think that there is really any way to know for sure. but to say that WMD is the only reason for going to war is false.
April 27th, 2005 at 12:49 amWhat I love about this whole situations is that seemingly 1 out of every 2 Americans voted for Geroge Bush **again**. That tells me that I only have to look at an American and there’s a 50/50 chance he or she is a moron. He lied to you straight up against weapons of mass destruction. Your “free” press asked no questions but how to wave a flag. The patriot Act pushed your country as close it’s likely ever been to being a police state. As a result of this obvious war for oil, your petroleum prices shoot up. (Although we all know *somebody* is making money). Bush has sunk your economy. Your jobs are being sent overseas. But who dare question the Almighty President? (oh ya, and Jesus – who likely prefers not to be a part fo this one) 1 in 2 americans. Those that didn’t vote for Bush, come to Canada. Just don’t bring your Walmart.
April 27th, 2005 at 2:32 amOdd that no one seems to care about the president’s wrong-doings until gas prices break 2 dollars a gallon.
About Clinton: The world loved Clinton, and no one understood the American reaction over a cigar and a stained dress. But, that’s America: 1600 dead soldiers + 100,000 dead Iraqi civilians = OK but Janet Jackson’s nipple on TV = the erosion of moral fiber and the fabric of society.
And, by the way, Jesus was the original liberal: long hair, water to wine, hung out with the poor, healed the sick. I have no idea how Christianity has been twisted into a conservative tool.
April 27th, 2005 at 4:27 amIt´s good to see USA’ citizens trying to wake up.
Let’s go to Schwarznegger and taste martial law to stop dreaming…..
I hate false men.
Light, peace and love for all.
April 27th, 2005 at 4:46 amI have live in this country for several years now, coming from Mexico this seems old
April 27th, 2005 at 5:20 amIs just like the PRI TOOK OVER this country the funny thing is that I can believe how ignorant and blind can you be.
Your government and corporations have suck almost every resource in ours countries for pennies (of course for your own good) (and for are own demise) but now there’s a bigger cow (you, your taxes) you pay-we kill (well they don’t. I mean the send your kids) and then we own ‘ well ok they own but who cares maybe your gas goes down and then you get to keep your SUV.
But there’s a catch why go somewhere else if they have you here (aah! bloody taxes) you have suck the blood from everybody and everywhere and I say you because you live in ignorance, of course with some help, just keep watching American idol or whatever… or worse watch CNN, they all the same. make your self a favor inform your self what’s going on in Venezuela, if you really care because remember this world is round, and everything that goes up sooner or later will come down. and now remember if they say that Venezuela has weapons of mass……blah blah blah go across the border and ask somebody what happen in Iraq, remember that when you look at your neighbors there’s a almost 50/50 that they are going to tell you that is true that Venezuela has weapons of mass distractions……
Aah! Also remember to keep your TV in the Disney channel.
Yeah my English sucks, but who cares, I got more and better sentences than Bush can put together.
well. This is a typical debate that degenerates into pointless squabbling, as though we were all 5 year olds on drugs. George Bush is a liar. YES.
April 27th, 2005 at 7:35 amHe may be a Christian, an upstanding citizen, but can anyone who has actually read the bible really belive that Jesus would sanction war with Iraq? The man who said, put up thy sword, turn thr other cheek etc, would think that the way to freedom lies in violence? I am proud of my country, but this doesn’t mean I have to belive everything I read in the newspaper, or everything that President Bush says. Surely Chritianity, (a religion of love and tolerance, similar to Islam, and many other world religions)
teaches respect for others, and their beliefs? Surely a man who claims to be a Christian would exhibit some signs of it, apart from a perpetual claim that God is on his side?
Just some thoughts.
Hey, what’s up with you people? So what if they kissed and held hands and everything. You know what, not a whole lot of people here in Saudi like your president and they did not like it when our Prince kissed ‘em. Men kissing is normal here in the ME as it is in Europe and many other places. So is guys holding hands. You guys are the homophobics. .not us. Your president worships OIL and we got LOTS of it..so he will bend over and get down on his knees if he has to. you know, Saudi people are not like what FOX News or Moore portrays them to be…we are simple people who love life and peace and shit like that…but we don’t like it when the USA interferes with our business…and I’ll tell you how: you see, we are a very rich country, I mean, the government can afford to give each citizen a couple of million and that won’t do jack to the economy…but the Royal Family here and people who kiss their ass 24/7 get all the cash $$$…they are hogging the fortune…I mean we got people here begging at traffic lights..Also, each member of the Royal Family is ABOVE the LAW…we had many, many instances where a poor citizen was shot and killed by a Prince, but do they get the punishment according to Islamic law? N O! So, this makes us pretty pissed and we blame America cause you guys claim to be all about democracy and shit and what you do is accept money from an evil monarchy and you call them friends and shit….that is why your punk-asses got hit by them planes…now what happened on 911 was evil and wrong but when you meddle in people’s business you get the wrath…that’s how it is… One more thing: was invading Iraq worth it??
April 27th, 2005 at 8:08 amSaudi, it’s OK to be pi*#*, it’s OK to like or dislike other countries presidents. What is NOT okay is to blame entire nation for something that only small portion of that nation support. Killing innocent people, no matter where, US, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. is wrong, and nobody here is arguing that.
April 27th, 2005 at 9:00 amGetting on the plane and hitting the buildings where people come to work, people you have no idea who they support, people of different decent, culture, age, sex…in short people that have nothing to do with politics, religion, WMD, or any other crap that we’re discussing about is the lowest of all the wars ever started. And you know what, because those terrorists were hiding behind Islam and teachings of the same, by slamming into the towers, they actually made more damage to Islamic countries than they can ever damage USA. Nobody deserves to die like that. NOBODY.
But, you know what, I don’t hate Islam, I don’t hate people from ME, I don’t say about people in Iraq or in Afghanistan the things that you said in your comment about twin towers “you’ve got what you deserve�. Nobody deserves things like that.
You’ve probably reed all the comments written here. You see how many of us are against war, against Bushes foreign policy, against the hatred he brings on this country? Even though you said that we’ve deserved what we got on September 11. most of us thinks that that people in Iraq, Afghanistan or in you country for that matter, don’t deserve what’s happening to them, especially because of involvement of our country.
So, Saudi, keep hating us, we don’t hate you. God bless.
Someone said bush should stick a boot up some saudi b*tt….hmmm…well im SO glad its u guys in america paying heavily for gas, bec here in bahrain its cheaper than water (seriously). Thanks to Saudi who give us FREE oil. Be nice to ‘em and they might help u guys out too!
April 27th, 2005 at 9:18 amAnna,
You said it girl.
It’s the governments of countries that make people hate others.
When 9-11 happened our government made sure that they drilled into American minds that Islamic people were the axis of evil. And stupid easily brain washed Americans believed it.
I don’t hate other countries or their people for what their governments do. Its the governments, not the people.
I am not ashamed of our people in America, I am ashamed of our government.
I believe their are many many good people in America who want America back to the way it should be.
The problem is, the people in government, Republican or Democrat are corrupt evil greedy non human beings who only march to the sound of money and power. They own and control everything.
Saudi N Proud,
You are not telling us anything we do not know. We know what our government is doing, we know they meddle in other countries and piss people off, we know all of this, and millions upon millions of America hate it. We do not support this.
As far as 9-11, you can believe all you want that the Islam world succeeded in attacking us. News flash, it was not 19 islamic people with box cutters for christ sake, it was our own government that did those attacks. So do not take credit my friend.
By the way, I was in Saudi and Turkey back in the 90’s. I loved the people, they were genuine caring friendly loving human beings.
April 27th, 2005 at 9:27 amAfter chancing upon this argument, I could not resist. First, conservatives need to wake up and realize that blind support to fill their pockets will eventually result in the chopping of their legs by their fellow conservatives. For example, look how quickly the Reps left DeLay’s side. Second, fucking liberals. What the fuck are you all doing here? Not one of you has said anything of any intelligence. All you do is fight. Since when has brawn beaten brains? For example, number 48 – you state that this country is about being free to not agree with anyone. How the hell does that work? The greatest thing about America is that nobody has to get along with anyone else? How do you build a country and socio-cultural state of bliss if we all disagree with each other? Wouldn’t the more humane solution to the problem of America be finding a common ground to stand on?
I am not conservative or liberal. I’m definitely not green or independent. I am. That’s enough for me. I’m not concerned with labels, or identifying with mass culture by watching TV, buying the best new gadget, or wearing the latest new trends. Instead, as a human, I am concerned with the well-being of my friends and family and all those on Earth whom I have not yet met. And right now, I’m concerned with the well-being of America as a country. Not because I’m patriotic or love my government, but because right now, the Americans, as a people, are being mentally abused. And similar to Domestic Violence, the victim is not strong enough to walk away because they have been beaten and kicked like a dog for 200 years.
So my question is to all of you: Why can’t you do something for the greater good instead of doing only for yourselves?
April 27th, 2005 at 9:43 amWhy do you pinko commie assholes hate America so much? You know, I always hear in the liberal media and from dems that Republicans are a bunch of radical extremists. I know what the medias agenda is, but man, the only radical extremism and pure hatredthat I am hearing is coming from the unhinged left. I thought you guys were all about tolerance and diversity and love. I guess that doesn’t apply to people with whom you disagree. I don’t like liberals, but I also don’t hate them. The hatred being spewed by the left today is a little scary. You guys need to realize that all of this hatred you have inside of you is distorting your message. Get a grip! Instead of talking about how much you hate us, you should be trying to give the American people a reason to vote for you, not a reason they should vote against us! The people know what Republicans stand for and they have overwhelmingly voted our candidates into office. And you guys have the mainstream media totally on your side to put forth your propaganda and constantly go after Republicans at all levels of government. There is such a double standard in the media when it comes to Reps. Dems. get a total pass when they do the same things as Reps. Thank God we have Fox and talk radio to counter the liberal bias in the media. So to some up, Bush is a great, decent man, America is a great , decent nation, so love it or leave it! Why don’t all of you commies denounce your US citizenship and defect to North Korea or Cuba and then you can see what a communist/marxist utopeia is really like! What is the average monthly income in Cuba, $20! Oh yeah, I forgot that they have free healthcare! Sounds like a real paradise! Go take a tour of the labor camps in North Korea and ask some of the political prisoners if they are living the marxist dream! Then go to Pyong-yang and try to catch a rat or a bird for supper! But America is sooooooo evil! If we are such an evil nation, why are so many people around the world willing to risk their lives to come here! Love it or leave! So stop all of youir whining and get with the program! Forget what all of your commie professors told you when you were young and impressionable and take a look around! We are in charge of this country, and that isn’t going to change for a long time. The people of this country don’t buy what you guys are selling. The media doesn’t have the monopoly they once had. Despite what you guys are hoping, we will contol Congress for a long time to come! Please, nominate Hillary in ‘08, I beg you! If you want a Republican to win in ‘08 then she is defininetly the right choice! If you think the red states are red now, just wait and see how red they get when Hillary is on the ballot. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it!
April 27th, 2005 at 10:17 amThis must be the president’s “Mandate” he keeps talking about.
April 27th, 2005 at 10:43 amAmerica the beautiful. I love the postings on here. To all the people in the outside world go ahead and hate on America because we are the #1 power. You do not see anyone debating Canadien or Mexican or German policy do you? America is an easy target, but let tell you something, we are the first to bail everyone else out of their miserable existence. Luis from Mexico, you moved to the US when you could have stayed in your own country to make it better than the dirt hole it is. You want to talk about hurting the environment? Two words Mexico City. One of the biggest polluted cities in the WORLD. To the Canadiens that want to throw their 1 1/4 cents in (using currency exchange rates). Your country is beautiful to look at but thats about it. You do not have the influx of immigrants because why buy a Ford when you can buy a Mercedes – you know what I mean. I’ll keep comng for vacations though to help you guys out. Finally to all you rightous libs who want to stick to the arguement that Bush lied, get over it. Bush made statements that many other heads of state made, including >oh gosh< your beloved Slick Willie Clinton, that Saddam had WMD’s. You act like Bush was the one who started that rumor. And to all the people from other countries that can’t understand why we would re-elect George Bush here is an answer for you. First he does what he says and says what he does, a rare trait for politicians. Also did you see John Kerry? I mean really. Gotta run and get in my SUV and do more real estate development so I can pay off my second home in Florida! Love ya guys and keep up the amusing comments!
April 27th, 2005 at 11:25 amyour beloved Slick Willie Clinton
April 27th, 2005 at 11:30 amTed,
You gotta be kidding me.
Bush is a great, decent man? Where do you get this from? Name me one positive thing that Bush has done for our country, just one? Just one. Just one.
We as Americans have the freedom, the right, and the responsibility to question our leaders. It is patriotic to do so. They don’t get a free pass. If they suck they suck, Republican or Democrat.
Don’t matter who they are, if they are doing a horrible job we should oppose them and get them out of office. It is our country, the people, not theirs. They are suppose to be servants to us not the other way around.
You are a blind follower.
This is a great country and yes many people risk their lives to come here. But, we must make sure it stays that way. That corrupt government officials that only care about power and money do not ruin that for all of us.
Germans blindly followed Hitler and thought he was a great man also. Well well surprise, he wasn’t. He was EVIL.
Stop being a blind follower. Stop listening to main stream media, it is ALL propaganda to keep you blindly following.
You talk about libs and how we spew hatred? Then you mention FOX news? Bill O’Reilly is one of the most hateful people out there. Rush Limbaugh he is another one who oozes hatred.
You should really check yourself before you start ranting and raving.
April 27th, 2005 at 11:40 amNice rant there Ted. You’re a caps lock away from sounding like a ranting, raving lunatic. But I think the question remains open as to what it is that Bush has done that benefits our nation or our people (other than his personal family and friends, and campaign contributors). Can you convince me (or anyone else) that he’s a “decent” man as you claim and deserves respect?
April 27th, 2005 at 11:57 am@Mikey
It’s because of arrogance of people like you that whole world hate us. In this age of global economy and dependence, how long do you think America can live in isolation? Good thing you’ve mentioned Cuba, it’s a good example on how can you prosper in such America.
Maybe people don’t discus Canadian, German or Mexican policy because their presidents don’t go around invading other countries and than lie about the reasons for doing that. Give it to me straight man, I’m a big girl, I can handle it.
When Clinton lied, nobody died. Do you need more explanation or I have to bring mother of some dead American soldier, so she can explain it to you????
@Ted
Republican, democrat…it’s all same to me, I don’t belong to either of those parties (I like to set my own set of morals and believes). I don’t hate you man, I just want to help you.
And BTW, whatever you smoke, I want some it.
God bless USA and its people (democrats, republicans and undecided).
April 27th, 2005 at 12:23 pmSheila. Comparing Bush to Hitler, there’s a new one! You guys throw that “Nazi” label around like candy. Prove to me that Bush is not a decent man without using one of your kook conspiracy theories! I know, Bush’s oil buddies and Halliburton and Cheney, etc. Take your meds and join the world of the coherent! Is liberating 40 million people from brutal dictatorships decent? Oh I know, we’re murdering innocent iraqis. The military is evil and a tool of destruction for a bunch of blood and oil thirsty neo-cons who never served themselves! I’ve heard it all for the last 4 years. So has the voting public and they didn’t buy it either. You call me a blind follower!(pot/kettle) Give a big “Zeig Heihl” to Hitler for me when you see him in Hell, you commie bitch!
April 27th, 2005 at 12:26 pmAnna, you want me to tell you about military families! Why did military personel and their famillies vote for Bush by a margin of 4 to 1 in the last election? Because they don’t want a bunch of spineless wimps contolling our foreign policy and our military! Real men are in the Republican Party! We don’t bow down to the UN or France or Germany! We kick raghead ass around the world! We are cleaning up the mess that Clinton left after 8 years of chasing pussy instead of responding to the many acts of terrorism being perpetrated against Americans around the world!
April 27th, 2005 at 12:42 pmTed,
Thanks for calling me a b$%*. That’s not hateful at all. I like to see how you treat your wife, if you have one at all.
I was not comparing Bush to Hitler. Learn how to read and comprehend. I said “Germans thought Hitler was a great and decent man” but obviously as history shows he was evil dictator. I was providing an example of how people can follow blindly. The Germans admired Hitler, little did they know who he really was. That’s my point.
Read your history Ted. That’s right, go to the bookstore and get you some reads. The American government put some of the dictators in place that you are saying we so unselfishly took out.
The government does what it wants to benefit themselves, not the people or the country.
If you want to keep believing in them that’s your problem.
But us others choose to educate ourselves and be individuals. We don’t like the kool aid and we are not going to drink it. So stop trying to shove it down our mouths.
April 27th, 2005 at 12:49 pmI consider being called a cocksucker by Al Swearengen a compliment! How’s your pecker doing? No more stones, I hope.
April 27th, 2005 at 12:50 pmOh, excuse me for being so harsh, Sheila. I’m so sorry for questioning your EXAMPLE! Funny that the only example you can think of to make your point about Bush supporters involves Nazis! I do have a wife, by the way, and I treat her like a queen. But if she had a mouth like yours, I’d probably slap the shit out of her!
April 27th, 2005 at 1:00 pmYour right Ted, they don’t want a bunch of spineless wimps. They want a bunch of brain washed killers.
You have no idea what a real man is. Real men don’t tell lies and send other peoples children to wars to be maimed or killed for there own personal gain. Real men do not murder woman and children. Real men do not want to see the world destroyed. And this one is directly for you, real men are not rascist.
Why don’t you go on a blog where you will be appreciated.
April 27th, 2005 at 1:00 pmOnce again Ted you show your glowing respect for women.
April 27th, 2005 at 1:03 pmDear FrickNFrack Clean up on aisle 4? No just putting in a day driving in my SUV and developing as much real estate as I can in order to pay for my 3 cars 7,000 square foot house and thinking about buying a 2nd home in Florida, hopefully where some dumb panther lives.
April 27th, 2005 at 1:09 pmPS I love all people, even you lib
I’m not in my mother’s basement, I’m in my grandmother’s basement! Oh and by the way, America’s pecker is working fine. It’s buried in the holiest of holies of the rest of the world. And they’re enjoying every inch of it!(10 1/2″ for those of you ladies who were wondering)
April 27th, 2005 at 1:37 pmTed,
I left 2 or postings on this subject, you as well left 2-3 I think. Non of my writings contain words such as “you lunatic republicans� or “you bunch of republican blood suckers� or any of the attributes that I could’ve use to offend a large group of people, who maybe belong to the same party you do, but not necessarily think the same way you do. Even though, you invited liberals to prove to you that Bush is doing wrong to this country, you still didn’t show one good argument that proves them wrong except to insult people that don’t think like to. You also said: “You guys need to realize that all of this hatred you have inside of you is distorting your message. Get a grip! Instead of talking about how much you hate us, you should be trying to give the American people a reason to vote for you, not a reason they should vote against us!�
I couldn’t find as much hatred in anybodies post as I’ve reed in yours. And it’s turned toward all liberals, not just those that write here.
This country belongs to all of us. And President of the US is president to all of the people, not just to republicans or democrats. Sooner we realize that, sooner we can star thinking about things that connect us, instead of things that divide us.
And Ted, don’t take things against presidents Bush politics so personally. US are the greatest country on the world exactly for the reasons that you have a problem with: being able and free to criticize all the government and the president, because they serve us, and they should be criticized, otherwise, it won’t be a democracy but dictatorship. And none of us, republican or democrat, don’t want that.
In this time in history, I have to agree, unfortunately, that right now, Democratic Party is full of spineless wimps, that does nothing but sabotage whatever agenda republicans have. They don’t have a firm standing on a single issue, they don’t have a good, strong ideas to offer to American people and I think that’s the reason they don’t appeal to American voters. If the situation is the way it is, democrats should take a part of the blame as well.
April 27th, 2005 at 1:44 pmI love USA.
Anna, I apologize for my harsh language. It was over the line. You make a lot of good points. We need to get past all of this partisan hatred and realize that at the end of the day we are all Americans who love our country, we just have different ideas of which way it should be led. That doesn’t make either of us right or wrong. We need to find common ground and not be so reactionary. That applies to conservatives and liberals. It is a two way street though and we first have to admit our own faults before we can point out our opponents. So I offer a sincere apology to anyone who I offended with my writings.
April 27th, 2005 at 1:58 pmIt is the common thread with which a people should weave a nation.
April 27th, 2005 at 2:11 pmIt’s weird, I’m canadian and I am more interested in American politics. And why can’t you see that YOUR country was founded with the idea of the seperation of CHRUCH and STATE, yet Bush pushes his ‘faith’ based agenda, he is pretty much shitting on the ideals and principles your whole counrty is founded on, and at some point his Saudi masters will cut his strings and by then your country will be a economic pushover against China. What I hate is that Bush is trying very hard to drag Canada down with you.
April 27th, 2005 at 2:13 pmYou dumb people; you have been a superpower for what? Around 50 years?
WHY DON’T you go a little back in history, you are just like the mob in the coliseum but instead of bothering your self going somewhere you got the comfort of your couch looking of Rambo against the bad guys.
“We kick raghead ass around the world!�??
Sure and keep going, if that makes you happy, you getting poorer, you losing jobs, your children’s grades are a shame and the bushies keep isolating you about the truth, and everybody is giving you the back (COUNTRIES), lets see for how long “We kick raghead ass around the world�
April 27th, 2005 at 2:16 pmAlso china, India and Europeans are eating your lunch, everybody in South America is going left, so much for that great generation that fight in WWII, the ones they give you
All that you have today,
And that “Ted� is a moron. Poor looser. Well not you, poor of your wife.
Ted/ who would slap his wife around…Does she get to slap you around if you become a potty mouth? If she read your comments, perhaps she would want to slap ya right there! So that’s Queen-like treatment? What a typical Republican chest pounding, “ug-me-head-of-house” mentality.
Why do you pinko commie assholes hate America so much? You know, I always hear in the liberal media—–wow dude! Guess no one told ya that THE COLD WAR IS OVER. Pinko is a word of the 1950’s–guess you need to get out of the stone age where ya beat yer wife if she gives lip an’ ya gotta get them commie-pinkos-ruskies. PS- the Berlin Wall is no more–pass it on!
April 27th, 2005 at 2:49 pmTed,
How can you condone Bush. Please, gawd…thats offensive. So you got no probs with killing innocent so you can fill yor gas tank to drive 4 blocks to the grocery store (i walk). Yuo got no issues about drilling in Alaska….so basically screw the carribou (i am a member of campus green). So it’s ok to come back from vacation to use Teri (bless her) for political strong hold. It’s ok then to lie, cheat to get ahead. Is that the kind of society you want to live in? Are those th e morals you want our kids to have? Darn it, NO. My father did not raise me like that, nor will I raise my kids to believe that they are superior to any other human being on a moral ground. I will not have my kids believing that it is OK to lie, to cheat, to kill for personal equity…..but hey…thats just me….and I want my kids to live in a society that cares for them..and does not send them to war (we are right??) to get slaugthered.
April 27th, 2005 at 2:50 pmHey mike I was before you in this side of the hemisphere, used to be better; we used to worship nature not oil we used to kiss the flora not at Arabian asses, so much for the superpower!
Well, yes Mexico City is the most polluted city in the world but you just have to put two cities together here and we will take the #1 spot.
And so much for the superpower, its people can’t even afford health care, and gas gets to 2 dollar and the superpower people start to panic, what a bunch of losers.
So what you do about it, if I were you, I will write a letter with some perfume and a kiss in the front,
TO: MR Saudi Prince Abdullah.
And in the back write,
Please Princes hear my president plea that the future as superpower status depends on you.
YOURS, MIKE
April 27th, 2005 at 2:53 pmWITH LOVE FROM THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
(Well, not so UNITES any more).
i am a young conservative and come to read what the left media has to say Michael Moore is anti american. He makes anti american movies like farenheight 911 which is propaganda.im reading some of the comments about Bush. Bye the way Moore u know that over 80 percent of the military voted for Bush. I would like to see u on the Oreally factor. Thanks for preaching your anti god anti american trash.DONT LIKE LIVE IT GO TO FRANCE
April 27th, 2005 at 3:43 pmDereck,
It is our right as an American to say what ever we want and support or not support who ever we want.
If we support Moore, it is none of your business.
If we hate Bush, it is none of your business.
Why do these fools think that if you question things you are unpatriotic? Go back to the founding fathers and the constitution.
April 27th, 2005 at 3:55 pmI have been raised as a true Roman Catholic I realise that the 10 Commandments greatly interfere with Capitalism, that is why they have not been for many years any issue from the Church….we have to stop gay marriges people..thats important!? oh yes the Bible belt….
Faith and Belief begins where knowledge ends, the Bible belt know nothing of the world they hurt therefore they believe everything that Bush says.
turn off the TV kids, read a book or maybe two, no not from blockbusters.
forgive them O Lord, they no not what they do.
April 27th, 2005 at 4:01 pm“i am a young conservative and come to read what the left media has to say Michael Moore is anti american. He makes anti american movies like farenheight 911 which is propaganda/anti God”
“I am a young Baath party member who have come to read what Al-Jazeera says. Newspapers are anti-iraq and against Allah! I too believe that we should not question facts and blindly follow our leaders and the hell bent political nature of our Gods. Did you know that 80% of Iraqi military followed Saddam Hussein?”
Tonight Caesars Palace:
April 27th, 2005 at 4:16 pmAmerican CHRIST v. Iraqi ALLAH
Dereck,
April 27th, 2005 at 4:17 pmThat is an awful thing to say. This is not China or Saudi Arabia, where the credo is “love it or die trying�. In this country, my friend, you can love it, hate it, despise it, feel any way you like it. I don’t know what they were teaching you in school, but if you don’t like something in this country, you should say it my friend, you’re doing a favor to yourself and to the country. What do you think; would this still be the same place if we would all agree on everything?
Being patriot doesn’t mean agreeing with everything government say, being a patriot means making country better for all the people that live in it even if that means going against your own government.
If you think you’re a patriot only because it happens that you like Bush and his politic, are you going to be a patriot when democrat is elected president? What if you disagree with the politic of democratic president? Are you going to be quite or you will find a place like Thinkprogress.org and voice your opinion? Come on Dereck, God gave you brain to use it, not just to add on your weight. God bless.
Chris (#96) It’s a common misconception for even Americans, so you being Canadien its understandable, so let me educate you. Our country was founded on the seperation of church and state, this is true. It was however, to keep the state out of the church not the church out of the state. You see in England you had a King that didn’t go by this theory. The founding fathers wanted religious freedom but also understood that all leaders needed a basis of religion to lead. There are many referneces to God in our founding documents. George Washington once said that “It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible.” Thomas Jefferson’s memorial in Washington DC has a quote from him that reads, “I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every from of tyranny over the mind of man.” Were these men religious fanatics? I don’t think so, religion brought to them a basis of what is good, decent, and fair. SO remember there is seperation of Church and state, but there should never be a seperation of state and some form of church.
April 27th, 2005 at 4:20 pmMikey
PS We couldn’t bring Canada down any further than it’s done to itself. Start paying us for the protection we give you. Love you though.
I wish I could spend $4/gallon for gas like those super evolved Europeans. I wish I was as smart as the liberal elite. I wish I could make great arguments like “if you support the war, why aren’t you ovr there fighting?” I wish I could get all my political information from a gluttonous millionaire film-maker. I wish my head was small enough to fit in my ass. I wish I was open-minded enough to call someone “dumb” or a “NAZI”. I must watch too much Fox News.
April 27th, 2005 at 4:23 pmLuis,
April 27th, 2005 at 4:27 pmYou still didn’t answer why you came to America if this is the diablo’s playground. You could have stayed in Mexico and made that a better place to live since you know so much.
Mucho amore
Mike
PS You know nothing about me so to say your people have been here longer than mine is a gamble. Also what are you doing to cut oil consuption since thats all you talk about. You think Bush is the only President to talk to OPEC?
Your Protection? what a fucking joke, 90% of Canada’s problems are because of America, your country is the reason there are thousands more terrorists the there were 10 years ago. Reality check, we’re your largest trader, we’re the reason you even have a economy, we stop trading with you and you go broke, while we just trade more with china and cuba (which i’m sure still pisses american’s off), since your country has pissed off every major trader, without Canada you guys would be fucked, your country is going broke cause you’re forcing your ideaolgy on places that only want it cause you’re either killing their children or giving them billions of dollars that ends up in private accounts belonging to people who have Bush in their pocket.
April 27th, 2005 at 4:51 pmwell bush has no problem with the prince arresting christians since bush really doesn’t believe in god. read mattew 6:24 and you will see his true god!!!!
April 27th, 2005 at 4:58 pmI’VE OFTEN WONDERED ABOUT GEORGES SEXUALITY. THINK ABOUT IT. HE WAS A CHEERLEADER IN THE LATE SIXTIES. ISN’T THAT ABOUT AS CLOSE TO COMING OUT AS YOU COULD GET AT THE TIME? THAT TEXAS SWAGGER AS HE CALLS IT LOOKS ALOT LIKE A FEMININE SWISH. HE’S A COMPLETE FAKE.
April 27th, 2005 at 5:32 pmNo I born a US citizen but I reside in Mexico till 16 years old, and I spend my time in both countries.
April 27th, 2005 at 6:30 pmBoth countries have great things but both governments suck. I’m talking in present time.
to believe in good in the 17 century and to be a president of the united states wasn’t a big matter then…..mankind in that time was almost totally ignorant about the 99.99 of the real universe.
April 27th, 2005 at 7:23 pmIs really disgusting that a politician of the present use the concept of god, any possible god of the thousend existing, to justify his actions or to cite a book wrote by some alienate sheepard of the 5th century b.c. to show that the how and when of delirant actitudes is in tune with the skyes and the men.
any use of conepts like god and related would be a crime, if used outside a church, sinagogue or mosquee, teeppe …or whatever.
hipocrisy is not only a prerogative of the bushies, the arab guy in the picture like to be kissed by the same man that is slaughtering hundred of thousend of his religious brothers….
they use goddityes only when are useful for their planes…..
god save the queer…..
Derek (#102) You need to open your eyes. I must say, Michael Moore is sooo NOT anti- American. He does NOT make anti American movies. Farenheight 911 is sooo NOT propaganda, it’s showing Bush and this administration in their true light. I’m sure IF 80% of the military voted for Bush, then it was because the wool was pulled over their eyes just as it was over all of us, anyone care to say WMD’s? I would like to see O’Reilly crawl under a rock. And thank you for preaching your anti-God anti-American trash. See if we don’t like it, we try to make a difference not belittle those who have an educated opinion. And hey, what’s wrong with your spelling, you can’t spell things out, spell peoples names right that you are so enamored with or capitalize words correctly.
April 27th, 2005 at 7:26 pmBizbarl. (115) Thanks for coming to so many conclusions so quickly. You really are much, much smarter than me. You are able to form an oppinion about someone without hardly any information at all. Why are you wasting time on the internet, don’t you have a cure for cancer you should be working on? You should, I’m wishing it upon you right now. But what do I know, I have shit for brains. Nice way of debating my “elitest” accusation.
April 27th, 2005 at 8:33 pmComment by Andrew (#13) stating Hitler was a Jew is uninformed. Hitler was raised-nominally-as a Catholic. Get your facts straight Andrew.
April 27th, 2005 at 8:38 pmI didn’t see anything that said this was gay here. Why does everyone keep saying “that’s not because they’re gay.” No one said it was. It was just a caption folks. Bush is a fuckstick anyway. I would love to hold his hand, so I could twist his arm and snap his neck clean from his shoulders, but that’s just me. Or is it?
April 27th, 2005 at 8:44 pmOn 107 (Mikey): I think you have it backwards. Because our founding fathers didn’t like the idea of the head of government (King George) being also the head of the church, they did not want government telling us what church to belong to. So it’s more about keeping religion out of the government, not vice versus.
April 27th, 2005 at 8:49 pmRe 107. Mikey
April 27th, 2005 at 10:46 pmThe longer I live, the more I think that religion is the curse of civilised man. So many people have been killed in religion’s name that God (whoever he is) must be weeping. Religion, like politics, is the first refuge of the scoundrel.
I am not sure if very many people know that 3/4 of the hijackers from september 11 were from Saudi Arabia, and here we have our “fighting for freedom” president holding hands with the prince of Saudi Arabia. ( home to 3/4 of the hijackers from september 11). Forget what people think about what the holding hands gesture means! Focusing on that is making an issue of something that is being created to take away the real issue that our president is holdind hands, ( a freindly gesture in Saudia Arabia, thats fine, whatever) with the prince of the nation where 3/4 of the hijackers that rammed planes into the twin towers. ????? Can someone explain to me why no one is talking about that and why everyone is making such a big spectacle of the president holding hands with someone who (where they come from is tradition or custom). ??????? People need to stop trying to make the president into a celebrity by creating gossip of something so rediculous and talk about the real issue. I would like to see the major media networks cover that! I might not go so well with all the overly patriotic people.
April 28th, 2005 at 12:07 amI think it’s about time that Americans realised that deep down inside the majority of people from Muslim countries hate them, and no matter what lip service their leaders pay to the idea of tolerance. Scratch a muslim and you will find the most racist and intolerant group of people on God’s earth. Like most people who profess to follow any religion, they only agree with the parts that reinforce their warped view of the world.
April 28th, 2005 at 12:23 amBizbar The Great.
Good job. I truly wish you would tell that to me in person, but I doubt my boot could be that lucky. Did you have to ask your professor how to reply to me, because it is textbook hippy student idiocy. Every college campus loud-mouth follows the rest of the herd and spews the exact same “I know better than you because I read Noam Chomsky” bullshit. Use your big words and call me your self-hating names, but just remember, I own you. I will always own you, and people like me will always own you. You are a puppet, a tool of an idealism which has been conquered time and time again. Keep thinking that I am stupid and you are smart. Keep thinking that just because I disagree with your politics, I am some sort of right-wing redneck. Keep on assuming I am weak. Obviously identifying sarcasm is not a pre-requisite for MENSA. I really do hope you are as intelligent as you think you are. Although, I would hope someone of your stature would be aware that I had a clear point, and you jumped directly into it. We are all laughing at you. You are an embarassment, a zilch. Enjoy you anger. And please, get cancer.
April 28th, 2005 at 1:06 amRarely is the question asked, “Is our country learning?”
April 28th, 2005 at 1:10 amRe 123.
April 28th, 2005 at 1:17 am15 love to Bizbar. Your serve bacon, you netted the last one.
Dear Joel (#118) Read what you just wrote moron. You are right it was government staying out of our business not religion staying out of governement…this is my last post thank God you liberals suck the ass of a dead yak. Would all those countires ie Canada, France, Mexico and so and so on who hate realize that we hate them too because they are WEAK! They wouldn’t know how to lead if they were hit in the face taught. America is the #1 country in the world face it. Also, to those libs who state that it is up to the people to take back America just remember you couldn’t do it 2004 and you won’t in 2008. The majority doesn’t think like youand never will. We don’t think that you have a right to do whatever the hell you want without consequence. Run Hillary in 2008 so I can laugh harder. God Bless George Bush and God Bless the United States because we know a liberal isn;t good for it! If you think its about the oil so be it, beat yourself up about it everyday dumbass. If it were up to the libs we would have 9/11 everyday and apologize for it everytime it happened. Goodnight and remember I love all of you. :) Cheese!
April 28th, 2005 at 1:43 amListen all you war mongering fools who voted for Bush. think of all the atrosities that have happened during bushes reign,9-11-tsunami-death of the pope. ever think your god is trying to tell you something. maybe osama isnt such a bad guy after all.
April 28th, 2005 at 2:05 amTo the bushes will be;
April 28th, 2005 at 2:25 amWell at least you are funny as your commander on chief, I think you are piss because he has show he’s true face, there you have the head of the superpower country of all times
Kissing ass, and looking like little girl holding hand, and that, “that piss you off. “I’m laughing all the way to the bathroom.
To MICHAEL,
SADDAM WAS PUT IN POWER BY THE CIA, THEN HELPED BY WESTERN POWERS for many years including my country. I let you guess which one. At least, contrary to you, americans, I am not afraid to acknowledge the misdeeds of my country. But maybe you did not know because they do not teach that in school or they do not tell you that on TV. FYI:
April 28th, 2005 at 3:21 amFirst: MY IRAQUI DOCTOR IN THE US, a victim of Saddam, PREFERRED WATCHING THE BBC TO KNOW THE TRUTH because US media are so naive and biased. What do you have to say about that?
Second: Remember: EMPIRES DO NOT LAST FOREVER.
Signed: a foreign lady who volunteered to donate her blood after 9/11 but has been insulted because of her country’s position on the Iraq war and who wonders when she is going to get lynched.
Okay.
April 28th, 2005 at 4:12 amTime to clue most of you in.
George W. was not, is not nor was he EVAH from Texas.
Him and his whole corrupt, idiotic family are from Connetticut.
That’s right. He be a YANKEE.
And this guy’s got the nerve to put on this show like he’s a cowboy??
WAKE UP PEOPLE!! HOW MANY MORE TIMES ARE YOU GOING TO LET THIS MORON SELL YOU A MOUTH FULL OF GREEK SALAD??
HUH??
Oh man.
RE: Post #126
Mikey?
By the way….I’m a Canadian. I hate to break your bubble, but it’s stupid, misguided little redneck zealots like you who got George W. back in office. Some friggin’ FACTS I’ll give which I’m sure will come as a shock to you:
1. Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11. Zero. Zilch. Zip. Not even any WMD’s. So what the fuck y’all doing over there?? Huh??
2. So you hate Canada cuz we’re “weak”, huh? No….not “weak”…..just an independent, sovereign nation that decided YOUR government was filled with a bunch of lying, backstabbing, bullshitting asswipes, who were NOT gonna lead us into a fucked-up, useless war.
3. We’re in Afghanistan, fighting terrorsists beacause YOU fuckers were attacked. YOUR WELCOME, dirtbag. And what was our reward? Four of our boys get killed, by two of YOUR incompetant, trigger-happy National Guard jets.
YOU hate US, huh? Well buddy-boy, lemme tell ya: You don’t hate us half as much as I hate living next door to a bunch of retarded, redneck, ingrate, religious zealots. Blue states come join us; red states, piss off and go hide in them thar hills with Cletus and his mule.
April 28th, 2005 at 4:28 amThe has has no truly GENUINE friends.
Only ones that were bought and paid for.
April 28th, 2005 at 4:37 amBacon,
You are atrocious.
What is this I own you stuff? What kind of normal thinking human being would ever make a comment like that? I own you? I really wonder what type of upbringing you had to make the type of comments you do.
And wishing cancer on someone you don’t even know. Where do people like you come from? People like you are the reasons why we have war. You guys just love it don’t you? You love to see people you don’t even know suffer. You love to see people you don’t even know get tortured, maimed, and killed for entertainment purposes. You get off on pain and suffering of others don’t you?
You are truly sick and dimented.
April 28th, 2005 at 8:11 amGoodness graces, you call yourselves a civilized people!!!!!!!!!
April 28th, 2005 at 8:51 amYou live in the same country, you all say you love it and than say to each other such a disgusting things!!!!!!
I’m in total and complete disbelief how much damage and hatred this presidency, war and religious beliefs have brought to this great nation of mine. Don’t you stop and ask yourselves who you are and what country do you live at??????
We can vote and believe in different things and still be respectful and civilized to each other, now can we????
If war would (God forbid) break here in US, I wouldn’t be afraid of Arabs or any other people coming from the different cultures. After reading few of these comments, I would be most afraid of people in my neighborhood.
Is this the way we portray our tolerance toward other cultures…..when we wish each other a cancer???????????
What is wrong with you people????????
Sheila, you get cancer too. Twat. I’ve never started a war, I just want certain people who threaten me to get cancer. It would be funny. Quit crying, this is all for fun because nothing is getting accomplished here except for the same argument that is on EVERY OTHER BLOG on the net. You question me because I don’t know Bizbar, but you don’t know me and you call me sick and demented. You are a hypocrite. So learn humor and get cancer. At least Bizbar can create a respectable response. You just ramble and take shit too seriously.
April 28th, 2005 at 10:10 amMost Americans don’t see the financial benefits to Saudia Arabia?
April 28th, 2005 at 10:12 amLets see, the Saudi’s are doing exactly what we expected them to do…produce more oil!..Saudi’s to the rescue, how many billions of dollars will they earn by saving us?
The Saudi connection is real.
Did you know that Saudi women cannot vote or drive a car?..Where’s the outrage?
What makes Saudi Arabia better than Iran?..
Why hasn’t Saudi Arabia sent troops to Iraq to fight terrorism?…
Get a clue Americans, the Saudi’s have always been a part of Bushie’s “big picture”…PROFIT…
Unfortunately, America does not profit…we lose and the Bush/Bandur dynasty continues to flow with cash.
Wishing cancer on ANYONE is loathesome. Even to say it is not merely immature, it’s way beyond that. Apparently you have never seen anyone suffer with cancer. And to call someone a “twat” for criticizing you for it? Grow up. Call me what you like, I will never see it because I will never visit this site again. Wish cancer on me if you want, I already have it.
April 28th, 2005 at 10:24 amBacon,
Wishing ill to anyone is not funny.
Who threatened you? I don’t see anyone here who wished bodily harm to you. Someone questioned your intelligence, and what did you do, you acted like a child who did not get their own way and started name calling and wishing they get cancer.
Its like a little kid mad at his mommy and saying “I hope you did”.
Grow up.
April 28th, 2005 at 10:34 amTypo, I meant, “I hope you die.”
April 28th, 2005 at 10:35 amRE #123 Bacon
Your comment:
“I truly wish you would tell that to me in person, but I doubt my boot could be that lucky.”
My response:
Fine. Just post your name and address here and I’ll stop by so we can see whose boot would be lucky; and if you decline to after implying you’d kick my ass, then everyone here will see that you are indeed the too-scared-to-stand-up-for-his-beliefs pussy I suspect you are.
Your comment:
“Did you have to ask your professor how to reply to me, because it is textbook hippy student idiocy.”
My response:
I’ve never been to college. I dropped out of high school and went to work. Never saw the need to go back, actually.
Your comment:
“…but just remember, I own you.”
My response:
Own me? You can’t even control yourself. Get your personal act together before you attempt to measure yourself against me; learn to crawl before you try to walk.
Your comment:
“Keep thinking that just because I disagree with your politics, I am some sort of right-wing redneck.”
My response:
I’m a libertarian, not a liberal (there’s a difference; look them up, bugwit). You’re sure off-base on this one.
Your comment:
“Obviously identifying sarcasm is not a pre-requisite for MENSA.”
My response:
Damn straight. Your sarcasm is infantile, disjointed and poorly thought out. Anyone can see that.
Your Comment:
“I would hope someone of your stature would be aware that I had a clear point…”
My response?
Really? what IS your clear point then? Do tell.
Okay, here’s the rub. I orginally singled you out for critique since you sounded like such a piss-brain in posting #108. All of your subsequent postings have reaffirmed that first impression. That fact that you used the buzzphrase “liberal elite” rather than, say, “right-wing taliban” is immaterial to me; I came after you not for your political slant, but because you act like a clown. As this site is mostly populated by left/liberal types, I for one would welcome more incise, informed comments from conservatives. But you, well, you’re letting down the Right side, Clyde; in a roomful of adults, you come off like a petulant child. I recommend you re-gather your thoughts, grow up and try again to say something of relevance.
April 28th, 2005 at 10:57 am“American Progress Action Fund (APAF) is a nonpartisan organization. With the blog, APAF seeks to provide a forum that advances progressive ideas and policies.�
Bacon, you would be surprised how many minds you can change by the way you treat people; even here on the blog. Try being decent and polite and try to leave insults outside of you writing, and you’ll see the respond. Please read Jason’s post a few times and imagine he’s you brother. Don’t you feel at least a little embarrassed???
April 28th, 2005 at 10:57 amJason, I’m sorry.
Reading the comments posted on here, I have a couple of questions to ask those who wish to answer.
What top 3 variables do you consider when you are determining how high or low your personal quality of life is at any given moment (any type of freedom, financial status, health, etc.)?
What is your ideological affiliation (conservative, moderate or liberal)?
I look forward to your responses.
April 28th, 2005 at 11:03 amHey if you’re all so upset about the way the government is being run then why don’t you fuckin’ do something about it instead of bitching?!!
April 28th, 2005 at 11:06 amThat’s a good question Nemo. I find it very hard to get a straight answer of 1, 2, 3.
I would have to say the quality of my life has to do a lot with the health and well being of my husband since he is the number one person in my life and the most important thing in my life.
But if I was thinking about just me I would say my health, my job (I have a great paying job but don’t particulary like it very much, I bet a lot of people fall in this category.) I would say if I enjoyed my job more I would enjoy my life more, since you do spend a major amount of your life at work. I guess I would pick 3rd my privacy, its very important to me. That could fall under the category of freedom.
I consider myself an Independent Progressive. I don’t like republicans or democrats, I think they are both worthless. We need a new party in America. A party that does not bow to its corporate contributors. Wouldn’t that be nice?
April 28th, 2005 at 11:27 amto Saudi ‘N Proud: You had better go back to the history of who turned the Saudi oil fields into what it is today. Yes the USA went over there with our men and equipment and put them in business.
April 28th, 2005 at 11:42 amWhile I will agree with most of what Sheila states, I disagree on one item…The dems are not worthless, they have worked feverishly to defend our Constitution on a daily basis…If you are an informed person you would know this..
April 28th, 2005 at 11:58 am.We (the dems) will not allow Bushie to destroy Social Security.
We continue to defend our right to free speech..
We won the debate to allow investigations into Delay’s dealings with lobbyists..
We will win the right to the use of Filibusters..
We soley demand that our troops be pulled out of Iraq..no other group has provided any support to the dems on the survival of our troops…
We boycot all corporations that abuse workers, such as Walmart and Home Depot…
We brought “covert propaganda” to the attention of the American people by outing Gannon and Armstrong…..
We fight for election reform…
The list continues to grow as our work continues to prove positive results…
Name one thing the Independents have done to undo Bushies radical agenda’s…
While the democratic party remains united,
April 28th, 2005 at 12:02 pmThe republican party becomes more divided.
That is a remarkable job done by the dems!
Peace.
Susan,
I did not mean to offend anyone, I hope I did not offend you. It’s just my personal opinion.
I used to support the democrats, and will support them over the republicans any day.
I have slowly lost confidence in them little by little. The straw that broke the camels back is when 18 democrats (I believe it was 18, correct me if I am wrong) jumped on board the Terri Shiavo debacle.
After that I let them go.
I am not saying there are not some really good democrats in there because there is, but as a whole I just cant support them 100% anymore.
April 28th, 2005 at 12:13 pmA really good indicator that the tables may be turning, I love it:
http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2005/3216gop_revolt.html
April 28th, 2005 at 12:18 pmSheila, thank you for your response to the questions.
Sometimes it is hard to rank and file our priorities with such conviction that we would stand true to placing one over the other if conflict between them should ever arise. It seems like you value your husband very much, and to me, that is a very admirable characteristic and one to be praised. Not necessarily just for one’s husband, but placing another’s life over one’s own.
Oftentimes, family ranks in the top of a person’s priorities. Jobs do not come too far after, as they are often perceived as necessary to provide for the family financially.
Privacy and freedom. These are where you transition from holding preference to tangible priorities to conceptual priorities. This is where many of us find it difficult to balance such concepts in their degree of “goodness” or “badness”. Privacy, if taken compelely away, would mean total disclosure, lack of individual choice, the prohibition of ingenuity and the all empowering bluff. If privacy is completely given, we may have a society of hermits, liars and thieves that may prohibit the social element we rely upon for community survival. Here, balance is the pinnacle of “goodness” in theory. This is one of the reasons so many get caught up in the debate, because there are not two people who understand the scales to be balanced at the very same point along the continuum.
Such is the same with freedom.
I look forward to reading more responses about these topics from you and everyone else.
April 28th, 2005 at 12:21 pmMickey (comment 107) Mickey, you are correct that this country was founded on the separation of church and state, but let me correct you on your misconception. You indicated that the separation of church and state was to keep the state out of the church but not the church out of the state. You sound very educated by your comments, so I am surprised that you have this principle confused. You are correct that England had a King that didn’t go by this theory, but the problem didn’t lie in the King of England meddling in the church’s business. To the contrary, the Catholic Church in England and the Monarchy became aligned in corruption. The leadership of the church in England and the Monarchy developed into a symbiotic relationship whereby anyone who disagreed with the church or anyone who disagreed with the King would be persecuted. The King did the Church’s bidding and the Church did the King’s bidding. It is the perfect formula for total and complete control over the masses. The King, however, did not rule the church. It was the Church that influenced the King’s rule over the people.
The Pilgrims came to America to form a new colony to escape the religious persecution. Still under English rule, and for non-religious reasons, our forefathers revolted and stated the Revolutionary War. In the forming of our government and Constitution, our forefather’s debated and created a democracy. In the creation of our government, they were mindful to be very careful to separate church business from the government business. They were wise enough to recognize that a government that is influenced or controlled by a particular religious sect could once again lead to religious persecution for those of different faiths. They found intrinsic in freedom itself that all people should have the freedom to choose and practice their own faith, not just the faith sanctioned by the government. The principle that we call the separation of church and state is to ensure that our government does not sanction a religious principle that is enforced on all the people. By that very definition and understanding, it should be clear that the government cannot interfere with the way a church conducts itself (keeping the government out of the church) and should not enact or enforce laws of the church (keeping the church out of the government).
This principle in no way implies that a person of government needs to give up their own faith when they enter the door of politics. A Senator, Governor, Judge or President does not have to give up their own faith in order to govern. The statements you quoted from George Washington and Thomas Jefferson do not make them religious radicals. Neither one of them pushed or promoted a particular religious agenda contrary to other religious beliefs. An individual’s own faith and their relationship with God is an important aspect in making them who they are. Their beliefs and the differences in beliefs promote debate which is what democracy is about. The challenge is for those in public office to recognize when their own beliefs infringe upon the freedom of others to practice their religion.
The concern that has been raised over President Bush’s religious agenda and the rhetoric being put forth by the religious right is that when politics and religion become married as they once did in England, the stage is set for religious persecution. It is clear that the religious right wants to replace our judicial system with Judges that will enforce their religious views. In so doing, our government would transform from a democracy to a theocracy. This would uproot the very underpinnings that have made the freedoms and democracy of our country so important.
I am a Christian. I believe in marriage between a man and a women, I do not believe in abortion, I do not believe in the death penalty. I guess some might call me a poster child for the Republican party, but I am a Liberal, and damn proud of it!! To me, the definition of a liberal is a “free-thinker.� Although my personal religious views are consistent with the religious right, my moral views tell me that it is wrong for me to will my views onto someone who has different beliefs. It is wrong for me and the government to tell someone they can’t have an abortion under the terms set forth by Roe vs. Wade. It is equally wrong for me to tell a gay couple that they cannot enjoy the same spousal benefits me and my wife enjoy. These are private issues that the religious right is trying to use the government to enforce the religious rights views.
What I find so ironic and hypocritical is that the religious right and the President do not follow their own beliefs they claim to advocate for. War is never justified in the name of God. God does not favour one person or government over another. We are all his children. How do gays getting married hurt anyone? It certainly doesn’t diminish the sanctity of my marriage with my wife. I think its more about a religious issue that has been politicized for political gain and to protect corporations and insurance companies from recognizing spousal benefits for gays. Aren’t we suppose to love thy neighbour? I just don’t get what the big deal is about.
My point is, I am a Liberal and I am a Christian. I have the ability to honor my faith while at the same time respect that someone else is equally free to honor their beliefs. I believe in the separation of church and state, not because I am an atheist or a liberal pinko commie or un-patriotic, but rather because I am a “free� thinking Christian and most importantly, because I am American!!
Now its time for all Americans to wake up and realize that our democracy is in trouble. The Republicans, the party allegedly for smaller government, is abusing its power and transforming our government from a democracy into a hybrid theocracy-corporate dictatorship. Before all the conservatives knee-jerk react to what I have written here, stop, think, and reflect. Don’t spill forth rhetoric that has been drummed and drummed into your head. I have explained the basis for my beliefs that I have written here. All I ask is that you do the same so we can have a debate. Any maybe, just maybe, we both can learn something today. Isn’t that what democracy is all about???
April 28th, 2005 at 12:24 pmSheila,
April 28th, 2005 at 12:26 pmI am not offended at all. I just think that attention needs to be brought to what work is actually being done opposed to those who just talk and take no action.
It is my understanding that most Independents support the dems over the republicans..
I agree with the Shiavo thing but I cannot exclude the entire party because of one incident..
There are good republicans out there too yet, as a whole the party does not represent me…
I’d love to see an Independent win the next election but until election reform becomes a reality, they do not stand a chance…Actually, nobody stands a chance against Karl Rove..(the mastermind of tricky politics)..
In the next election it is my suggestion that whomever Karl Rove brings as a candidate is who we should vote against..
Peace.
Your welcome Nemo.
Hopefully I will not be the only one to respond to your questions. They were definately thought provoking.
April 28th, 2005 at 12:26 pmEveryone. It’s all funny. The other night I made a wager with my buddies that I could post some stupid, sarcastic, and obviously obnoxious comment and some asshole would reply by calling me stupid or something of that nature and it worked (own you). That’s all. I’m sorry for wasting your valuable blog space (I know the GW gay thing is huge right now). I guess wishing cancer on Bizbarl was a bit harsh. but he didn’t even seem offended by it. He responded to my oppinions, not my insults.
Sheila, it’s spelled “you’re” not “your” you dumb pig. It sounds like someone should remove your feeding tube. And just because I wish cancer upon you, it doesn’t mean I want you to die. Why are you being so mean to me? And shut up, can’t you see that the men are talking. Go clean something.
Bizbarl I too am a registered Libertarian. I live in Las Vegas and my E-Mail is evillordbacon@yahoo.com. If you want to share a good booting, come to town and lets dance. Everyone eventually comes to Vegas so I hope to see you soon! I must be a big pussy, so please, help me confirm that.
Jason-I bet you are a liar, or you have cancer in the part of your brain which gets jokes.
April 28th, 2005 at 1:30 pmBacon,
I have nothing more to say to you.
You are not contributing anything useful to this post so why don’t you just go away.
April 28th, 2005 at 1:41 pmI asked for a name and address and you respond with an email address at yahoo. Its confirmed, you’re a pussy.
April 28th, 2005 at 1:42 pmJust to be precise. The computer and mainframe were invented by scientists at the University of Pennsylvania.
April 28th, 2005 at 1:59 pmOh Ted, It’s so easy to make the USA feel like No.1 nation on earth when you compare it to North Korea and Cuba.
Congratulations.
Is that is much as you learnt from watching CNN?
How about doing a real comparison:
Like the UN list of best countries in terms of health, education, low crime, etc. (things that really make a good nation).
Or better yet…do you own real research,
Travel and spend 1 month in:
Sweden, UK, Australia, Denmark, Luxembourg (heck! any 1st world nation outside of the USA),
Then maybe…just maybe, if you open your eyes, you might get to understand what the so called “libs” are complaining about.
“Get with the program” means get with accepting a stupid leader who is creating violence and hate in the world.
NO THANK YOU
April 28th, 2005 at 3:11 pmGreg!! Fantastic. Keep up the REAL FREEDOM!!
April 28th, 2005 at 3:17 pmThe kissing and holding hands must look really weird in Crawford I am sure but I have lined in the ME and you get used to it. When I first went I asked the manager of the hotel I was staying in where the restraunt was, he took me by the hand and escorted me all the way to where I was going and introduced me to the matre’d. It is good service, it shows they care and it is nice. Once you got to know someone when you would meet they would give you a hug, a kiss on the cheek and usually shake hands a few times. When ever someone picked me up at the airport and there were people around they would do the same even if they did not know me, it is like a welcome to his country. It’s not gay. Now back to Bush, Yuck! When I see anyone kiss him I get sick to my stomach, especially when it is a monarch from the wealthiest non-free country in the world. (You have to feel bad for the hard working regular people there who are mostly poor and trying to live in this oppressive regime, my heart go out to them)
To correct another poster, Bush is not from Crawford, he was born in New Haven, Connecticut and his father was born not too far away in Milton, Massachusetts.
April 28th, 2005 at 5:35 pmBizbarl. Email me you faggot (yes I know it’s an offensive term, that’s why I’m using it). Are you scared little boy? I gave you a location and valid email. I WILL MEET YOU! Or maybe I’m a pussy unless I give you my ss#. All bark, no bite. It’s in your court now tough guy.
Sheila…Because I’m attracted to fat pigs like you. You’re more than likely a very lonely person and that makes it easy for a predator like me to get under that thick packaderm skin of yours. Just ignore me and I will go away.
I will always reply on this blog, so blame those who won’t ignore me. Get jokes. O & A Party Rock!
April 28th, 2005 at 6:17 pmMe, a faggot? You’re the one who invited me to dance, and on your home floor at that, you damp-eyed nancy-boy. You made the challenge, I set the terms. Get it? If you can’t meet them, then go back and hide behind your daddy’s skirt, pussy. Until then, kiss your southern pucker.
April 28th, 2005 at 8:24 pmYou know all us liberals don’t give a damn if George and Jeff are buggering.. It’s that the fellow has to get paid for it…Do you really believe that Jeff signed in over 200 times and it was to visit some lowlife who couldn’t afford him.
I’d give anything anything to get my hands on Jeff’s financial trail. Bet the money is coming from Switzerland from Kenny Lay’s stash over there..and then going to the Cayman’s and the Jerk Jeff is not paying taxes because he’s ”’self-employed”"”.
April 28th, 2005 at 9:14 pmI knew it. What if I give you $500 cash if you beat me? That will pay for your flight and hotel. I just can’t meet your other terms, for I am not missing any chromosomes. But you do sound real cute, maybe we can work out another deal…
Write me sweetie
April 28th, 2005 at 9:19 pmBacon, (refering to #126) and your comments to Bizbarl, not Bizbar, for one. And when pople say nice things and call you — you wish ill on them. Some have said you are atrocious. This is so true. You need to chill. You have so much hatred in you, you will self destruct. You are constantly calling people names just because they don’t believe the shit this administration and Bush have crammed down our throats. I am so glad I am a Democrat and believe in the goodness of people and not the lies we are getting now from Republicians and right wing zealots. You can’t say anthing to anyone without putting them down with crude, repugnant, repulsive comments. This shows how truly little you are. You can not debate people with solid, authentic statements. When you can talk on an intelligent level that would be a big surprise. I don’t think you can do it. Now whose laughing at who?
April 28th, 2005 at 11:12 pmThe shrill bile from Bush-haters is what caused the American people to re-elect him. Rather than engage Bush and his supporters on substantive areas in which reasonable people can disagree, Bush’s detractors portray him as an evil man, a simpleton, a tyrant, to name just a few of the ad hominem labels. In demonizing Bush, the left also demonizes the voters who re-elected him, including those in the middle who could go for a Democrat. As between Bush and his detractors, only his detractors use words of hate and thus render Bush the victim while discrediting their cause. The left’s rhetoric is akin to masturbation: it only feels good to the person doing it. No one on the fence will be persuaded to trust petulant children with the adult job of running the most powerful country in the world.
April 28th, 2005 at 11:39 pmPatti…more to come?
April 29th, 2005 at 1:21 amCaption it:
“Your hands are as smooth as that of a young camels bottom.”
“Yours are nice too, is that because of the years of sitting around punishing Christians and not really doing a days work in you life?”
“That and because I use ‘Oil of Achmed’”
and
“Hold me down! I’m full of hot air.”
April 29th, 2005 at 8:27 amMalakas,
I can support a republican, but I can not support Bush.
You act as if us liberals hate him just because he is not a liberal. That is not true. We hate him because he is a stupid retard who is destroying our country for greed, power, and money. I could care less if he is a so called republican. If he was a good president or even a decent one I would support him no matter what party.
My husband is a republican, a true republican. He voted for the dummy in 2000, he despises his now.
Did anyone watch his conference last night? Oh my gesh. I was so embarassed for our country. I sat there in total disbelief of what I was witnessing. He had nothing new to say and stuttered through the whole thing. You could tell he was clearly irrated in between questions as he rolled his eyes and made faces as he picked people for questions. I think I would of preferred to have a root canal, it would have been less painful.
Energy crisis, solution = technology. Wow George, I would of never thought of that, I am so glad you told us. That’s a hard one. Ugghh.
April 29th, 2005 at 9:45 amBush is gay. He probably is still sleeping in the pink panties he was given by Ken Starr for Christmas. Ken’s panties are pink with red bows.
April 29th, 2005 at 2:56 pmSign the petition, folks!
April 29th, 2005 at 3:19 pmFirst, BRAVO SHEILA #172
April 29th, 2005 at 3:53 pmSecond, did anyone know that when Bushie and wife attended the popes funeral Chirac (France) tried to kiss Laura on the cheek and she backed away from him?
Did you know Bushie refused to shake hands with Chirac?
I am a pen pal with a gal in France and she said the French media played the scene over and over again.
She stated that Bushies lack of respect to Chirac only reinforced the French’s hatred for America…
Guess Chirac isn’t Bushie’s type?..
Any thoughts on this true story?
Sheila, I feel sorry for your husband. He must be deaf.
April 29th, 2005 at 5:04 pmShelia, you go girl!! I couldn’t have said it better!! Bush is an idot, nothing but a dumb f**k. And I can’t believe that ½ the country doesn’t see that. I didn’t watch last night, I couldn’t watch the idiocy!!
April 29th, 2005 at 7:59 pmpeople should stop this petty banter and go out and do something productive. everyone likes to bitch, but no one ever does anything.
April 30th, 2005 at 4:23 pmMalfoy,
April 30th, 2005 at 8:41 pmWhat are you doing? And how do you know WE aren’t doing something?
Patty,
April 30th, 2005 at 9:17 pmAre you a member of moveon.org?
They keep me pretty busy signing petitions, writing letters to newspaper editors and attending rallies.
If you haven’t heard of votetoimpeach.org yet I suggest you sign former Attorney General Ramsey Clarks petition.
It feels good to do things that make a difference.
Moveon.org is hated by the right as they are very effective.
Peace.
This discussion has degenerated from an actual discussion to a throwing around of pointless insults. I read a study somewhere that says that each generation is slightly smarter than the one preceding it. So why aren’t we showing it?
April 30th, 2005 at 9:47 pmSomewhere we seem to have forgotten the point of having an election, of being a democracy at all. People throw around insults about being a liberal, a republican, and stupidest of all, a communist.
The cold war is over, its time to move on from all of that.
People don’t seem to vote with their head anymore, they vote based on ‘my family always votes for (insert name of political party here)’
Whether George Bush is republican, democrat, gay or straight doesn’t change his basic character. It doesn’t change the fact he lied about the reason for going to Iraq. It doesn’t change the fact there were no weapons of mass destruction. It doesn’t legitimize his bombing of Afghanistan either. I don’t think there were many Afghanis’ dancing in the streets with joy as he bombed their houses. Where is Osama bin Laden now? George couldn’t find him; so to distract the American public from his attempted genocide on the Afghani people he started another war, with Iraq.
I can think that would be an excellent reason for another generation of future terrorists to hate America. September 11 was a terrible tragedy, but we are not little children, two wrongs don’t make a right, and bombing Afghanistan because Osama bin laden happened to be hiding in a cave somewhere in Afghanistan is not a mature response.
I wonder what would have happened if Osama had been hiding in Australia, or Britain, America’s ‘allies’. Would they have been bombed with same ruthlessness?
What is it about the death of 4000 Americans that is more tragic than the death of millions of starving and AIDS affected African children?
When will America wake up, realise that George Bush is just another ignorant prejudiced little shit, who if he lived 100 years ago would probably have been leader of his local chapter of the Ku Klux Klan, going out and crucifying black people for being black just like he is Iraqi people for being Iraqi, and gay people for being gay, no matter his political party.
So the next time you turn on your TV and hear about another kid shooting up a school, listen to the president as he blames rap music, atheism and other ‘evils’, and actually think about it, stop just tapping the front cover of the bible confidently as you think ‘God is with me’ because that is exactly what the poor brainwashed terrorists think, who are just as misguided about their religion as you are about yours
Susan,
Thanks for the info. We are members of our local area Democrats.
May 1st, 2005 at 4:51 pmBefore boarding his flight to Crawford to meet with President Bush Monday, Saudi Arabia’s Crown Prince Abdullah presided over the arrest of 40 Pakistani Christians on Friday. Their crime? The Pakistanis were caught praying in a private home in the capital Riyadh in violation of the state’s strictly enforced religious law that bans all non-Muslim worship.�
why is that everyone has to obey the law except christians?? I belive in religous freedom, so i think this is wrong, BUT its the law. Crown Prince Abdullah is bound by the law just as much as those Christians were, so he HAD to arrest them. Lol I’m a bit late, but no-one else has mentioned this.
May 3rd, 2005 at 3:35 amKatrina, you’re a real idiot. – lol
Bacon
hey bacon…wow that was intelligent. do you have anything to add of any importance or are you just here to insult people? What’s the matter, too many words of two or more syllables for you? Thankyou very much for proving my point that this is not a discussion, more a random throwing of insults.
May 6th, 2005 at 9:11 pmHi all, I’m a Canadian Social Conservative (yes we do exist). A liberal friend of mine gave me the link (yes we can be friends) Reading these postsjsut makes me wonder what happened to us all. There are clearly some intellegent people posting on this site but I was wondering what is getting accomplished on this or any blog? I am being serious, other than topics degenerating into insult wars, what is going on? Aren’t we passed the point of personal insults and silly arguments that our politicians spew out day after day? Trust me, I don’t think Canada us any better than the States is any worse than Canada, there are a lot of things I really admire about it.
May 7th, 2005 at 5:59 pmSorry about the spelling errors, I was writing while working on something else.
May 7th, 2005 at 6:00 pmthere hasn’t been any ignorance and idocy expressed on this post for a while- don’t tell me bacon’s finally given up and gone to hide in his hole again?
May 11th, 2005 at 1:56 amGreat work with this one, nicelly done!
June 14th, 2005 at 8:36 pmSheila, et al.,
I am one of those on the fence. I am moderately conservative on some issues and moderately liberal on others. Like you, I vote for candidates who I think can handle the job without regard to party or labels. This is precisely why I am saddened by the approach taken by Democrats and others on the left: the rhetoric (even the choice of words and images) betrays an appeal to emotion rather than reason.
Rather than arguing that Bush is a simpleton, why not explain why he is a simpleton on issue X without using that word and let thoughtful people come to that conclusion based on the strength of the argument? Same applies to Bush being a tyrant.
Calling people who voted for Bush ignorant rednecks or other derisive names predictably alienates those swing voters like me and pushes them firmly to the other side. In light of how close the last two presidential have been, I find it unwise to write off at least half of the electorate and hope to win based almost exclusively on voter turnout. Karl Rove could not have devised a more effective tactic for relegating the Democratic Party to minority status for the foreseeable future.
It will be a sad day if this nation effectively becomes a one party democracy run by Republicans. If this happens, however, I believe Democrats will have only themselves to blame for pressing their case by insults rather than rational, logical argument.
July 6th, 2005 at 10:13 pmIts nobody elses business if other people are holding hands or not. You people are terrible goss
September 27th, 2005 at 5:27 pmIts nobody elses buisness if people are holding hands or not. You people are terrible gossips. You should be ashamed.
September 27th, 2005 at 5:38 pmThey should not of been arrested at all. That was the stupidest law I’ve ever heard of!!! It’s not cool to try to force people about religion. It’s called multiculturalism. Just so you know, that’s a great thing. It’s what we in Canada are proud of and cherish. We think it’s cool. Think about that, predgiuce law making people. A kid knows that you’re bad.
Please excuse my spelling mistakes.
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