FULL TEXT OF BRITISH BRIEFING PAPERS REVEALED: More Evidence Intel Was Fixed
FULL TEXT OF BRITISH BRIEFING PAPERS REVEALED: More Evidence Intel Was Fixed
As noted previously on ThinkProgress, the American media had failed to report on the British Briefing Papers — covered by the British media last September — that showed that the British felt the pre-war evidence for attacking Iraq was weak and that the U.S. lacked a plan to address the post-war situation. Using the Downing Street Minutes to bring light to these Briefing Papers, the Washington Post’s Walter Pincus wrote a front-page story this weekend calling attention to the charges in those documents.
In a headline entitled, “Memo: U.S. Lacked Full Postwar Iraq Plan,” Pincus uncovered a British memo warning of post-war instability that would arise because the Bush administration was unrealistic about the post-war phase. A number of the Papers in the Pincus article are attached below. As one of the Papers warns, the U.S. had no plans for “what happens on the morning after [attacking Iraq].”
The main thrust of the British Briefing Papers certainly focused on the Bush administration’s failure to plan, but there’s another key point in the Papers which Pincus chose not to highlight, a point which meshes well with the revelations in the Downing Street Minutes. As you know, the Downing Street Minutes said the Bush administration “fixed” the intelligence around its policy of attacking Iraq. The British Briefing Papers lend further credence to this point.
British Knew Iraqi WMD Were Not a Threat: “There is no greater threat now that [Saddam] will use WMD than there has been in recent years, so continuing containment is an option.” [Iraq: Options Paper]
Evidence Did Not Show Much Advance In Iraq’s Weapons Programs: “Even the best survey of Iraq’s WMD programmes will not show much advance in recent years on [the] nuclear, missile or CW/BW fronts: the programmes are extremely worrying but have not, as far as we know, been stepped up.” [Ricketts Paper, 3/22/02]
Evidence Was Thin on Iraq/Al Qaeda Ties: “US is scrambling to establish a link between Iraq and Al [Qaida] is so far frankly unconvincing.” [Ricketts Paper, 3/22/02]
“No Credible Evidence” On Iraq/Al Qaeda Link: “There has been no credible evidence to link Iraq with UBL and Al Qaida.” [Straw Paper, 3/25/02]
Wolfowitz Knew Supposed Iraq/Al Qaeda Link Was Weak: Wolfowitz said that “there might be doubt about the alleged meeting in Prague between Mohammed Atta, the lead hijacker on 9/11, and Iraqi intelligence (did we, he asked, know anything more about this meeting?).” [Meyer Paper, 3/18/02]
The full British Briefing Papers have been attached below. When reading them, keep in mind that these Papers were written approximately a full year before the invasion of Iraq. The Papers present a shockingly accurate forecast of what has transpired in the years since, and suggest the Bush administration chose to ignore the advice of our key ally when it came to dealing with Iraq.
British Iraq Options Paper
Manning Paper
Meyer Paper
Ricketts Paper
Straw Paper
British Legal Background Paper
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Great article, Thank you. This is what the world needs to see. The hard data needed to make a valid
June 13th, 2005 at 9:12 amcase.
There was a letter to the editor about a year ago from a suburban housewife and mother of three that pretty much summed things up. It it she mentions that with all time that it takes to keep up with the responsibilities of being the preverbial “soccor Mom” that even she knew there were no at the very least grave doubts that there WMD in Iraq.
June 13th, 2005 at 9:35 amThe evidence that is surrficing that the bush administration is basically a war-mongerinng machine was evident a long time ago to anyone that took the small amount of time to find it. My only hope is that bush&co will finally be held accountable.
Bush lied, thousands died
June 13th, 2005 at 9:38 amBush himself could admit he misled us into Iraq and I still wouldn’t buy it.
June 13th, 2005 at 9:52 amInteresting reactions so far from talking heads on media non-reaction, from “It’s not absolutely 100% definitive,”
to
“So? Everyone knew that Bush and Cheney and Powell et all were lying, so it’s not news. We’ll bury it.”
Democrats should be repeating, over and over, that they were deceived, over and over, because they gave the president the benefit of the doubt after 9-11.
June 13th, 2005 at 10:49 amIt is of utmost importance to get this information into the mainstream media, which has systematically been suppressing facts about the catastrophe in Iraq, in favor of newsless entertainment like the Jackson trial.
June 13th, 2005 at 10:53 amEvidently our Brave New Media concur with Karl Rove and his puppet that the only security of value in the United States is that of the White House and denizens of various billionaire mansions scattered around American and on tax-free islands.
The new plutocracy is choking us and our democracy to death.
Bush is on the defensive. His second term is crippled, stop dead in it’s tracks. he will make a mistake. We must take back seats in the House in 2006
June 13th, 2005 at 10:54 amThe Democratic party does not want withdrawal. They want to stay there because (1) Big Israeli lobby money to Clinton and others (2) The Dems are in bed with the same defense industry as Repubs (3) Dems, like Repubs or even more than Repubs, are neoliberals and believe in American supremacy and noblesse oblige – bringing “democracy” to the lesser creatures – and all that other condescending, delusional, ego-maniacal crapola
June 13th, 2005 at 10:54 amFor the British memos “Iraq: Conditions for Military Action”, the Downing Street Memo, the Robb-Silberman report and a host of other Iraq-related materials, see the Iraq Document Library.
June 13th, 2005 at 11:05 amYes, I know about the trial, I just believe that [he] who I will not call my President needs to serve the rest of his time here on earth, on death row
June 13th, 2005 at 11:14 amI would settle for him retiring permanently to the ranch with a very hefty fine.
This is creepy.
http://billmon.org/archives/001900.html
June 13th, 2005 at 11:25 amSeneca, Bush will make a mistake? that’s like saying the sun will rise. I don’t think we can afford any more of his mistakes.
June 13th, 2005 at 11:27 amBetter yet, I think we should demand that the Bush twins should join the Army. Might give King George a different perspective on the war.
June 13th, 2005 at 11:31 amComment by Carlos  June 13th, 2005 @ 10:54 am
I hope you are not serious Carlos. If you are, however, please think back to when Clinton was in office. I’m pretty sure that he did not invade Iraq.
June 13th, 2005 at 11:31 amCarlos’ ignorant comments warrant one question: Where’d ya get that info, buddy? sounds as if you just made it up.
June 13th, 2005 at 11:36 amLarry
This post is an excellent resource. But didn’t the narrative just get more complicated with the NYT angle today?
>>
WASHINGTON, June 12 – A memorandum written by Prime Minister Tony Blair’s cabinet office in late July 2002 explicitly states that the Bush administration had made “no political decisions” to invade Iraq, but that American military planning for the possibility was advanced.
>>
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/13/politics/13downing.html
June 13th, 2005 at 11:39 amSorry people
June 13th, 2005 at 11:40 amI’m not making it up – you’ve heard of AIPAC right? When Hilary and Lieberman are big recipients and both of them are unwilling to even discuss withdrawal – Hilary and LIeberman both fit into the neoliberal camp – as does Bill Clinton – although Bill didn’t invade Iraq – under his watch we conducted continuous bombing of Iraq in the no-fly zone for 10 years during sanctions AND – it was his wonderful Secretary of State – Madeline Allbright (sp?) who when asked if it was worth 1 million+ children dying due to the sanctions in Iraq – her answer was “yes” it was worth it. If that’s not a sickening, stomach turning response, I don’t know what is.
I just love it when neoliberals call peoplel ignorant – how dare anyone point out that the Democratic party isn’t any better than the Republican party. You’re ignorant when you think that.
The difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is – the Republicans are crooks who wrap themselves in God and the Flag while robbing you – the Democrats are crooks who cloak themselves in compassionate high-minded rhetoric about your freedom, and the children, while robbing you
June 13th, 2005 at 11:44 amWhy point to Hilary Clinton and Lieberman as not willing to discuss withdrawal? There are at least 55 Republican senators (plus lots of Democratic senators unwilling to discuss withdrawal. And what’s that got to do with AIPAC. It’s not at all clear (at least to me) that however Iraq plays out, how that would impact Israel. That takes a crystal ball that only Carlos seems to have.
June 13th, 2005 at 11:52 amLarry
If Carlos supports Bush’s illegal war–he should immediately enlist in the Army or Marines. Our overworked recruiters are desperate for enlistees–like Carlos. He can take a copy of the Downing Street Memo to boot camp to read in his free time.
June 13th, 2005 at 11:55 amAnd just one more comment to support my other ones – since I’ve been labeled ignorant – we must not forget that it was the Democrats who voted along with the Republicans, almost unanimously to give Bush carte blanche authority to conduct war whenever and wherever he saw fit – And that lies at the heart of why the Democratic party is keeping silent about the Iraq war and any talk of withdrawal – the duplicity of some in the Democratic party is being protected – the fact that Hilary Clinton can at this late date say she does not want to discuss withdrawal – and that she has not discussed the Downing street memos – is a loud and clear message – don’t look to the Democratic mainstream on this issue – if it’s up to people like her we’ll end up like we did under Johnson and Vietnam – year after year of hideous useless death and suffering for what? – for his massive ego that could not admit he was wrong – until he had no choice – and finally stepped aside – and when you think about it – every major war in the last hundred years has been presided over by a Democratic president – something to think about, instead of just labeling me ignorant to try and silence me – which won’t work anyway:)
June 13th, 2005 at 11:55 amCarlos,
I think in terms of the lessor of two evils. Yes both sides are beholden to big business and corporate money, but which party is more likely to ATTEMPT to improve the lives of all Americans, which party seeks to ensure that all children have health insurance, and which party seeks provide adequate education to all children?
These are the important issues, these are the issues that directly impact the lives of those living in America and these are the issues that need to be addressed.
June 13th, 2005 at 11:55 amJudy
June 13th, 2005 at 11:56 amI don’t support the war – I’m for total and immediate withdrawal. Where do you stand?
And Judy
My son is draft-age. And he almost joined the Marines. Fortunately, he saw that that was a crazy decision, and he did not.
So when you start making light of people joining up – you need to realize – I’m fighting for my son’s life when I discuss the issue of the Iraq war.
June 13th, 2005 at 11:59 amThis is not a joke to me. To me, this war is illegal, I protested it before it began – where were you? Were you out protesting before shock and awe began? Where was the Democratic party then? Totallly behind shock and awe, a policy which can only rightfullly be described as a terrorist act.
And what’s that got to do with AIPAC. It’s not at all clear (at least to me) that however Iraq plays out, how that would impact Israel. That takes a crystal ball that only Carlos seems to have.
Israel (Sharon) has been clear about Israel wanting to neutralize all enemies. FOURTEEN permanent military bases in Iraq is consistent with this! So is threatening Iran’s nuclear program, Syria, etc.
So it is no stretch to say that the AIPAC position favors massive US military spending and activity in the ME to make Israel the only military power in the region.
June 13th, 2005 at 11:59 amPlease stop jumping on Carlos. He’s basically right. A good number of Democrats, certainly most of the ones who call the shots in the party now, are exactly as he’s describing them. If we’re going to turn the country around from Bushism, then we need to say a big no to the corporate whore wing of the party and support only real progressive Democrats like Conyers.
June 13th, 2005 at 12:01 pmLarry
You ask what AIPAC has to do with withdrawal – well let’s see where should I start – how about permanent US military installations in Iraq which would be jeopardized by withdrawal – how about Israel and the US seeing mutual security in permanent US bases in Iraq –
That’s just one – we could also discuss the fact that the US needed to withdraw all its troops from Saudi Arabia, where we had permanent bases, after 911 because of the intense pressure put on the Saudi royal family by the militant Islamics including OBL – so where better to put those troops than in Iraq – and it made the Saudis happy because Iraq was thorn in their side being a secular country as it was –
There are many many reasons
June 13th, 2005 at 12:04 pmCarlos–Glad to hear you don’t support the war and that you are working for immediate withdrawal. I hope you are also doing everything possible to demand that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Perle, Wolfowitz, Rove, Frist, and McConnell be held responsible to America’s disaster in Iraq. Join Rep. John Conyers in demanding a full investigation of the DSM. This is no time to waste energy on Bill & Hillary bashing. The credibility of our nation is at stake. We mush impeach Bush.
June 13th, 2005 at 12:05 pmtouche t0m :)
But mistakes in defense and spin are lethal.
http://tinyurl.com/btswx
June 13th, 2005 at 12:07 pmGary, agreed.
Just because we’re mostly Democrats here doesn’t mean Democratic politicians are faultless.
June 13th, 2005 at 12:09 pmCarlos,
Unfortunately, during the discussions of impending Shock and Awe, the Democratic Party was headless and rather impotent. The results have been tragic to say the least.
Over the past few weeks, voices within the Democratic Party have begun to be heard – Dean, Conyers, even Hillary – for answers to the invasion. While I agree that withdrawl is the needed result, I’m not sure that a power vacuum in the region is the best idea. I guess I don’t know what the answer should be and I don’t have any brilliant ideas, but the fact that people are finally waking up and seeing the mess that has been created is a positive sign. It is just sad that it took so long and so many lives to understand the impact.
The Democratic Party made a terrible mistake in backing the President prior to the war. However, due to the swell of nationalism sweeping the country, there was little doubt that most Congressional members would support the President. Too bad the lies were not exposed and made public long before troops were sent into the no-win situation that is Iraq.
June 13th, 2005 at 12:10 pmJudy
Yes, I signed Conyers letter. What’s interesting to me is that you assumed because I criticize the Democratic party that I’m pro-war. Before giving me advice perhaps you need to examine your own assumptions and beliefs about the Democratic party, which I think at this point is morally and politically bankrupt, just like the Republicans.
Yes I know the Democrats, some of them, fight for health care – and mostly its Democrats at the local level who are making a difference.
And if you want to talk spin – this whole bruhaha about Dean’s attack on the Republicans is another distraction – look over here people at Dean – and ignore the 500 lb gorilla in the room which is the Iraq war. Dean didn’t even mention the war at the recent Take Back America conference. Arianna Huffington was the only one to bring it up.
So Democrats – if you really believe in your rhetoric – you need to take your party to task – and tell Dean to discuss the war and stop this sideshow circus attack on Republicans.
June 13th, 2005 at 12:12 pmCarlos–Like you, I did everything I could in 2002 and 2003 to stop Bush from starting this war. I marched in DC & Louisville. I sent thousands of emails and made thousands of calls to Congress. I contacted UN members. I even emailed the Pope! We American’s are responsible for Bush’s illegal disastrous war. I hope your son and my daughters do not get drafted, but we both know that more than 1700 families have already lost their kids. I think the most important thing right now is to drop the partisan spin and join forces to ensure that the people responsible to this war–Bush / Cheney & Co. are tried and convicted for their crimes. The DSM says it all.
June 13th, 2005 at 12:16 pmMNSasquatch
I understand your dilemma regarding the ugly decisions the Democratic Party became party. I think you’re quandary is one that the leadership seems to be in. I don’t mean to put words in your mouth, but my sense is, you and the Party are unable at this point to come out and say, “We were wrong, we were fooled again, and now we need to make it right by just getting the heck out of there.” To me, discussions of concerns about power vacuums is just a way to avoid the reality of the situation, which is – we did something that was illegal and uttterly stupid and destructive – and there is no way to right this by staying – the genie has been let out of the box – when you destroy a culture – a fabric of society – what else can you expect but chaos -
The Democratic Party learned nothing from Vietnam – and the lesson there was – you don’t invade other countries unless you’ve been attacked, you don’t it because (1) it’s wrong (2) it leads to disaster for everyone involveld.
The only honorable thing, in my opinion, for the US to do now, is to withdraw.
June 13th, 2005 at 12:18 pmSome people are Democrats by default, some pugs are that as well. the democratic party is populated with DINOs and probably even pug moles. It’s corporate wing, like Biden and others, is pug lite.
June 13th, 2005 at 12:20 pmJudy -
June 13th, 2005 at 12:20 pmYou want to impeach Bush – but what about the war. You say nothing about what to do now that we’re in Iraq. What’s your solution.
It’s easier to impeach than withdraw troops from Iraq. Neither is going to happen soon enough to please us all.
June 13th, 2005 at 12:21 pmSeneca
I went to your link – I’ve seen that story today in the news and somewhere it mentioned that the US military is now considering making political liasons with the insurgency – which I guess will no longer be called the insurgency if we become aligned with one group or another – but we’ve probably been aligned all along – as there was talk that the destruction of Fallujah – which itself is a massive war crime – was really an attempt to wipe out a political opponent of Chalabi et al – so we’ve been playing card all along
What’s been going on in Iraq will be revealed someday as the hideous, evil thing that it is – and our children died for this – it is almost too much to even think about
June 13th, 2005 at 12:27 pmCarlos,
I agree with most of what you are saying, and I think that the DSM will give the DEM party the excuse they need to say how wrong the war was and that they were fooled by the administration. I think you can see this happening even as REPs are beginning to challenge the facts of the war and they are staring the talk of setting a timeline for withdrawl. I think this is a VERY positive step.
I also do not think the country as a whole will ever learn from the past until we look beyond ourselves and our own self-interests. Far too many Americans do not realize that there is a whole world outside of our borders and that some of those living outside of our borders actually have different beliefs than we do. Only when we realize this and ACCEPT this can real change be made. Can you imagine the postive change that could be made in Africa if people actually cared about what happens to someone on the other side of the world? Adults and children do not have to die from CURABLE diseases and malnutrition.
Sorry, getting off the soapbox now.
June 13th, 2005 at 12:28 pmLittle Debbie Winger -
June 13th, 2005 at 12:29 pmIt might require that the military command countermand the President’s orders, and begin withdrawals on their own.
Carlos,
I admit that this is weak, but the vote by many Democrats in Congress for the “Iraq War Resolution” was to “put teeth into the inspection program”.
I remember specifically, John Kerry and Hillary Clinton making floor speeches that put caveats on their votes and warned Bush that he had better be right about WMD and telling him that any of their support will end if they found out that Bush was lying.
I agree with you that the DLC Democrats are failing to heed the concerns of most of their constituents in the party. I think that the issue of troops currently in Iraq is tainted by the realpolitik of the invasion and occupation. I, like you, favor immediate withdrawal — with a shuddering concern about what might happen in Iraq when we leave, but I am not going to write off Democrats who take a slower, more cautious approach. The pottery barn rule does apply here. We broke it and leaving now would be like shoplifting.
June 13th, 2005 at 12:30 pmBlaze -
If, as you say, Clinton and Kerry put the caveat that they would withdraw support if Bush was lying, why isn’t Clinton champing at the bit to bring the DSM to the floor of the Senate. And why didn’t Kerry do it. Why is it Conyers? Admittedly he has the power of the Judiciary committee, but the Senate is silent on this issue, except for Kennedy.
I don’t trust Hilary Clinton. And the reason is – she smells too much like Lyndon Johnson. I’m old enough to have protested the Vietnam war, and Johnson was a real nightmare – most of the protests during the Vietnam war were done in front of his White House, and he did nothing. He refused to listen. I think Hilary would be the same way if she were in the Presidency. She would keep the troops there – the nightmare would go on and on.
June 13th, 2005 at 12:37 pmComment by blaze  June 13th, 2005 @ 12:30 pm
Very well said Blaze. I’m glad somebody could sum up what was stuck in my head regarding the chilling impact of leaving a broken country.
June 13th, 2005 at 12:39 pmBan abortion, more children to grow up and join the military to fight for the War Pary (Democrats and Republicans) that occupies Warshington. The ‘Good Americans’ won’t see the light until after 60,000 dead soldiers come back in flag-draped coffins. Until then, expect the slaughter to continue ad infinitum. People are a ‘renewable resource’ that can be exploited so the billionaires can live lives of hedonistic leisure in Tahiti.
Dr. Strangelove would be jealous of our current crop of ‘leaders.’
The US has been runnin’ and gunnin’ across the globe ever since Eisenhower sent 900 advisors into Vietnam and sold the French surplus military hardware.
June 13th, 2005 at 12:45 pmCarlos,
I really am not sure about Hillary. When Johnson was in power there was a major Democrat majority. Now, in the minority and facing the spinning blades of the current media, Democrats have been ducking and dodging for so long that it is hard to pin down a position.
I can understand the strategy by the Senate, of being quiet and letting this administration stew in their own offal. Daschle was destroyed (basically without a whimper) with the assistance of spin. Hillary is currently set up for a burning.
But you know what? I still believe that principle trumps spin and I am looking for the leader. Dick Durbin, John Conyers, Bulldog Waxman, Barbara Boxer (to a lesser extent). There is also realpolitik involved in our election process. How do Dems avoid the media lies campaign and how do we take back the vote count? Kerry is a thing of the past, but I think that Hillary might just be warming up.
June 13th, 2005 at 12:47 pmImpeachment procedures followed by trial by international court of war crimes should begin immediately!
June 13th, 2005 at 12:51 pmCarlos,
There is a poll on MSNBC.com asking the question: should a date be set for withdrawl from Iraq? currently 77% said yes. If this continues, withdrawl WILL happen.
June 13th, 2005 at 12:57 pmThe pottery barn rule does apply here. We broke it and leaving now would be like shoplifting.
I don’t think that’s a very good analogy for the present situation. It’s more like we broke into a Pottery Barn with a gun and started shooting up the place, killing or maiming all of the managers in the process. Then when the police call for us to come out with our hands up, we say that gosh darn it, if we didn’t stay there’d be no one left to run the store. (Of course, the flaw in this analogy is that there are no police with jurisdiction over us because we’ve got 99% of the guns in the neighborhood and the laws have been set up so that nobody has enforceable jurisdiction over anything we do. But hey, no analogy is perfect.)
June 13th, 2005 at 1:03 pmGood job Carlos-deflect deflect deflect- now what about these memos. lol
June 13th, 2005 at 1:10 pmRe: pottery barn, that’s not really a very good analogy for Iraq. It would be more like if we ran into a store with a gun and started shooting up the place, taking out all the store managers in the process. Then when the police tell us to come out with our hands up, we say that we’d like to, but we can’t because that would leave nobody to run the store.
June 13th, 2005 at 1:14 pmTesting… I had another comment, but the server isn’t letting me post it.
June 13th, 2005 at 1:23 pmThe pottery barn rule does apply here. We broke it and leaving now would be like shoplifting.
Iraq is more like if we ran into a store with a gun and started shooting up the place, taking out all the store managers in the process. Then when the police tell us to come out with our hands up, we say that we’d like to, but we can’t because that would leave nobody to run the store.
June 13th, 2005 at 1:26 pmMNoops
June 13th, 2005 at 2:15 pmIf you think this is deflection, then I counter that the DSM hoopla is also deflection. Do we focus JUST on the DSM and impeaching Bush while IGNORING the Iraq war. It seems to me alot of Dems would like to do just that. Are you one of them? What’s your position on Iraq war?
Judy, I bristled a bit when I read your comment that “We American’s are responsible for Bush’s illegal disastrous war.” Like you, I was out there beforehand fighting like hell to keep us out, and then I was fighting like hell to prevent Bush from being reelected. So were a whole heck of a lot of other people, with the world behind us.
Know what? The war happened anyway. The second coronation happened anyway. Now, despite strenuous opposition and some Democrats showing some spine for a change, the courts are getting packed with right-wing activist judges and John Bolton will probably get to blow up the U.N. anyway.
Say it’s really true (and I have strong doubts) that the majority of Americans were/are behind Bush: I am not one of those Americans, and therefore I am not at all responsible for this illegal disastrous war. No one who fought with all they had to prevent it are responsible.
The Bush administration (with Tony Blair’s help) is responsible for this illegal, disastrous war. Those citizens who naively and romantically believed (and still believe!) his lies and allow themselves to be manipulated are complicit, but even they are not responsible. Those who determine what will be “spun” to us in the media must share in the responsibility (it’s debatable if they and Bush aren’t joined at the hip), but many reporters are complicit only because they fear repercussions if they report factually and show courage in covering what’s really going on.
I’ll wager that, even if Congress had not voted to give Bush the power to wage war on Iraq, he would have done it anyway. Would that be any different from what he does every single day that he’s in office? Yes, the Democrats, in trying to look like they’re fair and bipartisan, have proven themselves in the past to be utter wimps; but I maintain that Bush didn’t need their wimpiness to get what he wanted. He didn’t need the sheepdom to get what he wanted. He doesn’t even need his opponents to get tired of fighting against him to get what he wants. By God, he’s going to get what he wants no matter what! Wake up, people!
The only way we’re going to stop him and his ilk is to demand verifiable paper trails to make sure the mid-term elections are a big wakeup call and the voices of Americans are all heard loud and clear. Failing that, we ALL need to be prepared to pour into the streets to fight (even die) for the land that we love.
June 13th, 2005 at 2:17 pmMark
June 13th, 2005 at 2:17 pmI agree with you – there are lies behind the lies behind the lies – and at the bottom the answer can be found – as Deep Throat liked to say – by following the money.
The clincher should be documents on OIL.
Greg Palast has found these on the plans to privatize and steal Iraq’s oil, and elections were initially put off so they had time to do it “legally” because no elected government, even a puppet one, could get away with rubber stamping that.
First Palast story with interviews with author of plan, Grover Norquist and General Jay Garner, first American ruler of Iraq:
http://gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=383&row=1
Follow up story with oil execs on differences with Bush admin:
http://gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=417&row=2
The Bushies seem to be taking this seriously–they’re suing Palast.
June 13th, 2005 at 2:34 pmAre these docs part of a “Bush Guard Memo Redux” scheme set in motion by a British Karl Rove? Because how do we know they are real and not fakes?
June 13th, 2005 at 2:47 pmBrits have not disputed authenticity, so it’s a little late to play that card.
I think about that now with anything that sounds too good to be true–could be a poison pill.
June 13th, 2005 at 2:53 pmRight on Carlos,
June 13th, 2005 at 3:19 pmOut of Iraq now, right now! Don’t buy the same old B.S. we were told during Vietnam—-stay the course blah blah blah.
I gave up on the Democrats after voting for them for over 50 years. They are hopeless. I am going to give the Green Party a chance to show what they will do for the working and middle class. Peace
So then Tony Blair went ahead and participated in a war that he knew was a fake. Right.
I wonder if these secret documents came from Bill Buckett or Dan Rather?
Keep digging folks…so far the only thing we find is that John Kerry is no smarter than George W. Bush and you don’t know how to win elections.
June 13th, 2005 at 3:40 pmOf course we know how to win elections. All you need to do is install crooked, unauditable voting machines in enough precincts.
June 13th, 2005 at 4:03 pmHELLO BUCKY… or is it polished sausage?
June 13th, 2005 at 4:08 pmSkid,
The original Carlos said “bush lied, thousands died”.
The Carlos after that is Buckshot.
In addition to his other personalities.
When is thinkprogress going to ban him?
June 13th, 2005 at 4:49 pmSkid
June 13th, 2005 at 4:51 pmWhat are you talking about. I did say Bush lied, thousands died. I have not said anything under the name Buckshot
Skid
June 13th, 2005 at 4:53 pmWhy would you want me banned. Because you don’t agree with me. Now that’s being a good Republican, or are you a pro-war Democrat. Or a stay the course Democrat? Or a Isn’t Dean terrific when he ignores the war supporter?
Sorry Skid – I meant my responses to be addressed to Susan who suggested I be banned cause she believes I’m other people – maybe she’s paranoid – but I have only posted as Carlos – not polished sausage or buckshot or anyone else. So before Susan goes suggesting that people be banned maybe she communicate a bit more. Unless she jsut wants to silence dissent.
June 13th, 2005 at 4:59 pmMore DSM Fallout
June 13th, 2005 at 5:21 pmThink Progress has the full text of, now four memos from England. These four memos, from a year before the invasion, outline (in advance) what transpired in Iraq
It doesn’t matter what I think of the war, the topic at hand is the DSM.
June 13th, 2005 at 5:36 pmMNoops
Except that you think the war is a distraction from DSM – but they are tied together – how can you separate the war from DSM – what nonsense – it’s like trying separate a letter that discusses murdering someone and the actual murder – how would that play in a court of law – like the defendant’s lawyer says – we can only discuss the letter we can’t discuss the murder – or vice versa –
in fact try discussing the DSM without discussing the war. Now that would be a challenge. You have said nothing about the memo yourself.
June 13th, 2005 at 5:42 pmIf you are, however, please think back to when Clinton was in office. I’m pretty sure that he did not invade Iraq.
Comment by MNSasquatch  June 13th, 2005 @ 11:31 am
From GlobalSecurity.org:
Operation Desert Fox
On December 16, 1998, United States Central Command (USCENTCOM) military forces launched cruise missile attacks against military targets in Iraq. These strikes were ordered by the President of the United States and were undertaken in response to Iraq’s continued failure to comply with United Nations Security Council resolutions as well as their interference with United Nations Special Commission (UNSCOM) inspectors. The strikes were designed to deliver a serous blow to Saddam Hussein’s capability to manufacture, store, maintain and deliver weapons of mass destruction and his ability to threaten or otherwise intimidate his neighbors.
In November 1998, US President William J. Clinton warned Iraqi leadership that force would be used if they continued to hamper United Nations Special Commission (UNSCOM) inspectors efforts. This operation, dubbed Desert Fox, was a rapid and intense use of air power that lasted four days (17-20 December 1998), ending on the first day of Ramadan, the ninth month of the Muslim year during which Muslim believers must fast between dawn and dusk. It was also the first operation that used B-1B Lancer bomber aircraft in a combat role. As in earlier confrontations between coalition forces and Iraqi military forces in the Persian Gulf, the intent was to show the coalition’s resolve to continue to support the UN’s monitoring effort. This was basically the “straw that broke the camel’s back” in the year-long tug of war between Hussein and the coalition. In fact, the US deployed forces to the Persian Gulf in February 1998 as part of operation Desert Thunder. Like confrontations in the past, Hussein selected a time when the US and her European allies were busy with preparing for another situation, again in the former republic of Yugoslavia.
I was against this when it happened thinking Clinton was trying to destract. Richard Clarke says differently in his book.
June 13th, 2005 at 5:55 pmIt doesn’t matter what I think of the war, the topic at hand is the DSM.
Comment by MNoops  June 13th, 2005 @ 5:36 pm
The DSM is hearsay. It is someone else’s interpretation of what someone said.
The authorization Bush signed to allow torture in violation of the Geneva Convention (and federal law) should be what triggers chIMPEACHMENT. If Ohio and Tom DeLay don’t take him down first.
June 13th, 2005 at 6:00 pmCarlos conveniently ignores several FACTS (instead of tired AIPAC allegations, and Bill Clinton, who is not, some say, equivalent to the Democratic party):
1) John Kerry outed the USPNAC airbases scheme during the FIRST debate, and repudiated it: “The US has no legitimate longterm interest in staying in Iraq.”
2) Howard Dean, who famously opposed the war, is now head of the national party machine. How did that happen, even when H. Clinton (?) and a lot of others opposed? Must be more to this party than you say.
3) Nancy Pelosi opposed, even opposed the Iraq Resolution, and that’s how she got her current job — by OPPOSING assistance the Bush agenda in Iraq.
4) What was the actual vote on that Iraq Resolution? A lot of leftists like carlos have faulty memory on that PARTY DISCIPLINE vote. In the Senate, party discipline split the vote 50-50. Twenty-five Dem US Senators voted NAY. In the House, 60% voted NAY. Gee, that doesn’t sound like a party that wanted to invade Iraq — or they have a strange way of saying it.
5) Why did that vote go so strongly NAY? Because of action by the party, aka the membership. That vote may have gone mostly Yea, if not for the responsiveness of both the membership and the representatives. Changing the leader in the House is not a small change. Democracy produced that change.
6) John Conyers, Barbara Boxer, Henry Waxman, and several other Democrats have strongly protested and fought against the Bush regime’s actions in Iraq. Have they been condemned by the party? Absolutely not. Indeed, 94 House members have signed the letter to Bush demanding he come clean on his Bush-Blair war conspiracy. That’s 94 out of about 200 — again not a sign that the party supports Bush on Iraq.
7) The myth that Dems are Rs is conclusively disproven by Bush’s actions, and the near-total toleration of those actions by Rs, and NOT by Dems. Not only was USPNAC not Clinton’s plan, or the Dems’ plan in secret — it is treason.
8) John Kerry won the election — Bush Lost Ohio. If Kerry had been allowed to take office, the airbases scheme would already be TOAST. Confusing Kerry’s statements supporting a measured stand-down in Iraq (to prevent civil war) is not the same as Bush’s permanent airbases and actions intended to CAUSE civil war.
Leftists are busy trying to beat the third party or no party drum, but that is the path of NO poltiical power in our system. I’ve heard leftists support the idea that only a revolution, or only a social collapse, or only a massive terrorist strike, say a nuke, would change the American system. My own view, as an ardent, active protester since I was 12 years old during Vietnam, is that these statements are inherently BIGOTED.
Wishing for disasters in order to change politics is the whole definition of powerlessness.
June 13th, 2005 at 6:01 pmJohn Smith=Bucky/Sausage… not Carlos, he’s generally good people.
June 13th, 2005 at 6:04 pmOne Carlos? Two?
June 13th, 2005 at 6:07 pm“The DSM is hearsay. It is someone else’s interpretation of what someone said.”
UNTRUE. The DSM, and supporting documents, is bona fide intel on the Bush-Blair conspiracy, with the majority of the information coming from Britain’s MI6 (equivalent to the CIA). It is solid evidence of the actual stance of the two governments.
Actually, that’s obvious, if you observe the difference in response between the two pieces of evidence. The torture evidence? Gonzales is the new AG.
The DSM? Blair has to come to the US to issue an outright lie for Bush. Blair is likely to fall from power within the next few months, which would weaken Bush considerably — not least of which because the new PM might hold an investigation — more real evidence from the main attacking ally.
Bush is in serious trouble, but this is a coup. I believe all the evidence is important, but the continued efforts by some on the left to downplay the DSM is counterproductive, and flows mainly from the desire to ignore the existence of GOVERNMENTS.
June 13th, 2005 at 6:09 pmWishing for disasters in order to change politics is the whole definition of powerlessness.
I’m with ya’ Paul. Looks like they got their power by a lot more than wishing (9/11)…
June 13th, 2005 at 6:13 pmCarlos: “Dean didn’t even mention the war at the recent Take Back America conference. Arianna Huffington was the only one to bring it up.”
AH is not even IN the Dem party. She ran third party against an elected governor in an unconstitutional (and stolen) recall election in my state, to her considerable shame.
Dean is head of the DNC. His job is specifically contingent on DOMESTIC policy — not as a lightning rod for opposing Iraq. Taking the job specifically meant he had to retarget the rhetoric. That’s mainly because a political solution is not the same thing as an up-down suicide vote, which is all the leftists want to see happen. They oppose politics — they refuse to acknowledge political reality.
Dean is forced to acknowledge political reality — that’s what the DNC Chair’s job is all about.
As usual, it is up to the PEOPLE to make the case against the Iraq war, and against Bush as a traitor. An impeachment, were it to start (unlikely but possible), would have to begin as always with the grassroots. For all the obvious reasons, it cannot start within the representatives themselves. John Conyers would not be pushing so hard if not for the hundreds of thousands of letters he has received, including from the pro-impeachment efforts of me and my friends for the last three years, which focussed on trying to get him to file an impeachment bill.
I am very happy now that this evidence is coming out; that Conyers is willing to carry the torch; and that 94 Dems have announced their willingness to support the investigation that may lead to impeachment.
Leftists continue to ignore the politics, down the parties as the same, and downplay the DSM on the argument that it is redundant to their superior knowledge of all things (except politics). Instead, they ought to be fighting their asses off moving the issue forward. Instead, the appeals to Huffington and other political-fringe voices, as if that has any weight in Congress.
June 13th, 2005 at 6:27 pmJohn, I consider the just DSM another nail in the coffin.
And yes Carlos, I can discuss the DSM without discussing the day to day events of the war.
The deflections were bringing up, Bill , Hillary, Albright, Lieberman-anything but discussing the implications of DSM. I’m also very happy that this site stays on top of it and keeps me up to date with emails. great job!
June 13th, 2005 at 6:30 pmVery interesting dialogue, especially when able to rise above name calling and malicious labelling.
My synopsis would be that it is agreed that our government is corrupt and non-representative of the “real” public and that the public is growing increasingly frustrated. The constant questions regarding motives and allegiances are indicitive of such.
The war/invasion/campaign/crusade, whatever you wish to call it, is most certainly wrong. Legalities and tactics can be argued all day. The bloodshed, however, is the only truth and the most troubling.
Now, I do not wish to throw my hat in anyone’s ring but I do find that Carlos is one of the few talking around the edges of the real solution. No violence, no emails to political or religious figures, no alignment with this pundit or that one. Rather, clear and civilized actions are what is necessary. This is, after all, a democracy for, of, and by the people. What to do? Here are some thoughts:
- Stop paying taxes
- Start Protesting
- Stop being “politically correct” (ie; you cannot support the troops but not support the war)
Start doing something or stop complaining. It’s one or the other.
June 13th, 2005 at 6:42 pmThis posting shows just how knowledgable Americans are. Thanks for voting Bush in again, World Peace will be a step closer come 2008 when he leaves office.
June 13th, 2005 at 8:44 pmClinton gave us NAFTA, Welfare Reform and the WTO, all great for the republicans and the corporate lobby, rotten for the American people.
June 13th, 2005 at 9:57 pmThe dems didn’t just screw up by supporting the war. Look at Feinstein’s voting record, she’s given W everything he’s requested except women’s rights issues. Lieberman can’t go five minutes without reciting the right’s talking points in regards to Iraq having made the world safer. Did you see the way W dry humped Lieberman’s leg after his last State of the Union?
Dems have supported the Class Action Fairness nightmare, the Bankruptcy horror, the Medicare Reform pile, figure it out, folks, they don’t represent the people.
Ever since Clinton showed the Dems how easy it was to raise cash by catering to big business we’ve been stuck with the republican party and the republican-light party.
If you’re hoping for a hero to arrive from the left side of the aisle then you’re deluded. They’re bought and paid for. Look at their voting records, it’ll take you five minutes.
Slim odds are better than no odds.
June 13th, 2005 at 10:04 pmThe entire world, including we Democrats knew Bush was lying about Iraq and the WMD fiasco. Until the DNC can find another media savy nominee, and we (the main stream ‘regular’ folks), get off our lazy butt’s and VOTE it won’t matter what anyone thinks or says. Christian Fundamentalist people are in the minority, believe it or not. But they are the one’s that are active. I think the rest of us now are out of denial and ready to vote. Bring Gov. Bill Richardson on. Get Dean a retirement community to harass.
June 13th, 2005 at 10:53 pmmy first visit… loved it. Thanks. Loved all of the opinions. My first thought. Bill Hicks said it soo well. “I think the puppet on the left is of my liking. I think the puppet on the right is my liking. Wow! Look…. It is the same pupeteer holding them both.” I think that we all really know this. Reps and Dems all feed at the trough. It is all about oil and passage ways for whatever the powers that be feel need to be opended. Be it NAFTA/CAFTA, European Union. I urge everyone to read Howard Zinn’s book on the history of America since 1492. A must read.
Thanks.
June 13th, 2005 at 11:00 pmI am glad to hear the likes of Carlos. Who was it that said, “Dissent is the greatest form of Patriotism?”
But let’s examine the powers that be. If we clump together the dems and neo-cons as part of the same corporate-driven machine, my only concern would be that if some other fringe party were to miraculously rise up and take power, where would it leave us in terms of global hegemony? Would a stand-down, pacifistic change of government truly encourage the world’s terrorists to offer an olive branch? If we’re not to take some active role in stablizing the Middle East and secure the future’s oil supply, who will?
With China and India in higher demand for oil-energy, it concerns me that the ultimate dilemma stems from pur continued fossil fuel addiction. And look how the rest of the world is getting hooked. Someone has to keep the junkies in check. I’d feel safer if it was us and not Iran, or China, or Russia, or even the EU.
June 13th, 2005 at 11:33 pmPaul in LA,
Great comments as usual, you seem to have confidence that Bush is in trouble and I badly want to agree, but here is what stops me: we have our echo chambers and they have theirs. Ours is filled with knowledge, true patriotism and much passion. Theirs gets played on a thousand radio stations and on most of the TV outlets. The vast majority of our fellow Americans hear their story and not ours. The fact that there has been any traction at all on the DSM, Tom Delay, Iraq disaster, etc. surprises (but encourages) me. I’m also encouraged by the recent show of nerve by a handful of editorial pages that have called the Bush administration what it is: a lying cabal. Cautiously optimistic, I suppose.
In an earlier post you state that “this is a coup” and I was hoping you would elaborate. Is this based on Bush’s plummeting poll numbers or something more tangible?
I think that ANY Democrat that is openly criticizing Howard Dean should be considered a clear impediment to the cause of revolutionary change in our political landscape. He is showing courage, speaking the truth, fighting like hell and not being intimidated by harsh attacks that he knew would be coming. Maybe he didn’t know they’d be coming from the likes of Joe Biden, but you can be sure everyone that knows how valuable Dean is to the future of a true “progressive” movement has put Biden’s name on their shitlist. Every time one of these whores opens their mouth they expose their priorities….and those priorities are not democracy first. Those politicians must be firmly rebuked.
June 13th, 2005 at 11:42 pmfabulous work folks but unless the major networks decide in their infinite wisdom to permit us commoners to hear about it in the nightly news programs, it just won’t matter.
June 14th, 2005 at 12:16 amBILL SUMMED IT UP! Thanks Bill!
June 14th, 2005 at 12:31 amWe all feel safer if control is from our own country. From the beginning of time. Think about it. Someone comes into your country… and takes control. You want retribution. And the story continues. and will continue to do so, unless unlawful occupations cease to exist.
June 14th, 2005 at 12:46 amdean was “given” the chairmanship of the DNC so he wouldn’t run in 2008, Karen. He is doing precisely what he should be doing in that post. Energizing the base. You want him to run in 2008? If you don’t, keep him right where he is. sign this petition.
http://www.petitiononline.com/Dean/petition.html
Dean scares the right. That’s a good thing.
June 14th, 2005 at 1:46 amRemember, the only good amerikan in Iraq is a dead amerikan.
Remember, Rachel Corrie
June 14th, 2005 at 2:06 amHey Carlos,
You have too much insight and knowledge for the amerikan hate-mongers and zionist war-mongers on this blog. However I reject your call for the withdrawel of amerikan troops because the best part of each day is hearing the latest count of amerikan war dead and wounded!
1700 & counting, yea, yea, yea!!!
If you amerikan racist holier-than-thou shitheads pull out of Iraq, only the white-supremacist amerikan crusading ciminals in Afghanistan will be left to die and rot on the soil of Islam.
Remember Rachel Corrie (1979-2003), forever a victim of zionist murder & hate
June 14th, 2005 at 2:26 amCorporations&lobies=Republicans+Democrats
June 14th, 2005 at 4:02 amIf you really care, start hitting to the head, this president moves at the ticking clock of corp and frieds,
same for dems.
…..Sorry everyone, I just found my meds. I’m ok now. Whew! Just wasn’t aware that I was spouting off like that. I just lost track of time in a crazy way, but I found my pills and took them. Thank you. Love, FP
Go….
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/
http://www.robertplant.com/
June 14th, 2005 at 4:14 amMy fav…. ;)
http://www.discoverthis.com/sea-monkey-instructions.html
June 14th, 2005 at 4:23 amUSA is a fascist country
June 14th, 2005 at 4:39 amI think Carlos’s comment about Hilary Cllinton not commenting on American withdrawl is very true. The democrats and republicans are on the same side, big business and their strong lobbies. Every average american is being raped by this system. The only candidate in this last election I saw as a solution to the problem was Ralph Nader. Democracy in the United States is only a word. It’s been gone for decades and will continue to be dead as long as the two party system and lobbying by the corporate giants is illegal. They don’t care about the average Americans and the politician only cares about one thing, being relected and of course voting themselves pay raises. If Lobbying was illigal, then perhaps democracy might show some signs. Oh, forgot to tell you about the major news stations on tv… Two of them are owned by General Electric and Westinghouse….. Major government contractors.. so you know the news will be carefully selected. So, please stop watching so much tv. Again, the only candidate that could have possibley solved the problem was Nader, but he was passed over by 98 percent of the voters. The United States needs to wake up before it is too late.
June 14th, 2005 at 4:39 amsorry, in that last comment i meant “if the lobbying is legal.
June 14th, 2005 at 4:43 amYou guys burned up that whole thread on that?
Shorter Carlos:
Bill Clinton was the best Republican president we have had since Eisenhower.
Shorter Fancypants:
June 14th, 2005 at 5:06 am.
Dear Readers,
President Clinton lied about his personal life and was impeached by the right wing Republicans. I can vividly remember the oicture of the so called “managers of Impeachment” walking from the house to senate with hypocritic smiles on their faces!.
But you know, President Clinton’s lies did not hurt any one except himeself and his family. it did not kill any americans or citizens of any other country or destroy any country.
Mr. Bush and his bullies lied and killed thousands of human beings (Americans and Iraqis). his foriegn policies are what I would like to term as “Convenient Policies”. I mean he can go on a pre-emptive war but no one else can, he can thumb his nose at the United Nations & World community when he wants to but then goes to them for their support when the chips are down.
Mr. Bush, you and your cronies are liars and hypocrites.
So, where are the same right wing republican “MANAGERS of IMPEACHMENT”!?
Because of his lies, U.S. have lost it’s stature and inluence with the world community.
Atul R. Vora
June 14th, 2005 at 7:51 amBush is worse than Hilter
June 14th, 2005 at 10:44 amThe American public mostly supported the invasion of Iraq and now they are getting what they deserve. Sadly some people who were against it(most people here) are now getting what they did not deserve(as well as a lot of Iraqis). We have an imbecile president who had the lessons of recent history to go by but made the wrong choices anyways. The insurgency is doing what I would reccomend anybody do when in an illegal war — they are punishing the invaders and those who support them and helping establish the precedent that those who start a war will suffer. We did it in Afghanistan against the USSR and we didn’t consider ourselves to be supporting terrorism, did we?
June 14th, 2005 at 10:57 amSadly another painful lesson to add to the history books. What should we do now? Make the best of it, keep our troops over there long enough to get some semblance of a successful state that can sustain itself started, and then get out and take our lumps. We will never get enough out of it to justify starting the war, that I am sure of. Some things cannot be fixed once they are started and it is sad that people supported this stupid war in the first place. Were all other courses of action exhausted before this war was started? Not even close.
-Rod
Supposed British memos were fascinating, but one small point: Are you sure they’re real? I note that the type font is exactly the same in all — are they still using typewriters in the UK? Do they pass the same one back and forth between different UK Gov’t offices? Isn’t there one of them who can proof-read? (All memos had the same kinds of typographical errors). Am I the only one that noticed this?
June 14th, 2005 at 1:49 pmIf HIliary is the nominee kiss our democracy good bye.
June 14th, 2005 at 2:44 pmAnyone who can compare Bush to Hitler is an anti-semite. I take total offense to that. People were gassed and put in ovens, people! Millions upon millions of them. You are all fools to compare the two men. Hitler invaded all of his neighbors to spread his hate. And, everywhere he went, he would methodically exterminate Jews. He would force parents to pick their favorite child, and then shoot both of the children for fun. You cannot compare anything going on today under the US flag to the likes of Hitler. If you do, you disgrace the memory of millions upon millions of people. You just spit on the unmarked mass graves of my people. Your memory is bad, but not as bad as your anti-semitism.
In the 1930s, the world sat by as Hitler killed my people. No country had the courage to stand up to him. Wouldn’t history be different if someone had made the case that we needed to stop him before he could exterminate millions? You people would say, “we don’t have all the evidence to support war against Hitler.” You can be mad at some memos. I’ll be pissed that no one had the courage to actually stop the ritual slaughter of millions.
As far as I know, the only modern head of state to gas tens of thousands of his own citizens is Saddam. Where were you people when he was doing that?
To give you a good idea of how many people 6 million is. Consider the ritual starvation, gassing, torture, and burning of: — 150 stadiums filled with fathers, sons, mothers, and daughters — The population of Wyoming, Vermont, North Dakota, Alaska, South Dakota, Delaware, Montana, and Rhode Island combined — Every person to travel through Chicago O’Hare Airport in a month (assuming no duplicates) — Every employee for Wal-Mart, McDonalds, General Motors, UPS, Ford, IBM, General Electric, Kroger, Sears, and the entire US army COMBINED. Consider that the world was 1/3 the size (population) in those days, so magnify these figures to understand how large the impact would be.
Please don’t disgrace the memory of all these people. To even hint that an evil equivalent to Hitler could ever exist again is pure ignorance. Try to contain your own bias, please.
June 14th, 2005 at 6:25 pmangry,
The Bush administrations invasion of Iraq was illegal, immoral and impeachable, end of story. That means that 100,000 people have died under his orders. While I agree that Bush is no Hitler, the comparison is NOT that far fetched and I don’t give a shit how angry you are. Tell it to the families of innocent Iraqis.
June 14th, 2005 at 8:37 pmsorry angry… Jay is right on. The way the world sees our wars is much different than the truth behind them.
The records show without a doubt that WW2 was financed by the big bank mogels of the day. Harriman/Rothchild/Prescott Bush and all of them other well-bread folks with good names. Call things a hipocracy. They are. All of the main wars of our times and others before us are for two things. Population Control, and Opening more favorable trade routes for those in power.
June 14th, 2005 at 10:12 pmIn support of these British papers, check out Richard Clarke’s book “Against All Enemies.” He also makes clear that Bush came into office, directing Defense and Intelligence to set up plans for an attack on Iraq. Nobody in either organization understood the immediate need for such plans and opposed them. The US has been “had” in the worst way possible, and our young soldiers have paid a terrible price for our willful ignorance of the Bush lie.
June 14th, 2005 at 10:19 pmSupposed British memos were fascinating, but one small point: Are you sure they’re real? I note that the type font is exactly the same in all – are they still using typewriters in the UK? Do they pass the same one back and forth between different UK Gov’t offices? Isn’t there one of them who can proof-read? (All memos had the same kinds of typographical errors). Am I the only one that noticed this?
Comment by Robert Hard  June 14th, 2005 @ 1:49 pm
Are you suggesting that Rupert Murdoch would allow bullshit to be printed in any of his publications? Are you suggesting that a man like Rupert Murdoch could be taken in as easily as the likes of Dan Rather? Are you suggesting that the documents in question are false, but that the information contained in them is legitimate, as was the case with the CBS TANG documents?
June 14th, 2005 at 10:51 pmAnyone who can compare Bush to Hitler is an anti-semite. I take total offense to that. People were gassed and put in ovens, people!
Yeah! That happened to Hansel and Gretel, too. From here on out, the mark of a brutal dictator shall be the number of people he cooked in ovens. I’m free! My reputation is pure! My honor, saved!
June 14th, 2005 at 10:54 pmOne thing is for sure: modern corporate driven conservatism is nothing more than a misanthropic push to create a moral justification for selfishness and mass murder.
Where are the real conservatives? Where is the crticism of this administration’s fiscal failure? Where is the angst against welfare when you have more corporate subsidies this decade than any other?
Even if you had Bush come out today and say he was wrong, you’d still have the likes of Sean Hannity and Ann Coulter posting talking points to the American public who still manage to convince themselves and the rest of the W-cult followers that we went there to defend freedom and democracy.
When will they just come out and say it? This war is a heaping dessert platter served to corporate interests in the form of crunchy defense contracts drizzled with sweet crude oil and the candied blood of innocent people.
I demand a new party to take action. We have to start somewhere, no matter how small.
June 14th, 2005 at 11:33 pmHey angry,
People were gased in the twin towers. Bush had warnings he did nothing, except read my pet goat. Bush has lots of BLOOD ON HIS HANDS. How many more solders will die? How many more Iraq children? How many more Mom’s and Dad’s will die? Will 5,900,000. more have to die.
June 15th, 2005 at 12:54 amThe problem of getting MEAN STREAM MEDIA to air this important piece of evidence is that these media are under tight control of the very people implicated in this paper.
June 15th, 2005 at 1:30 amHEY! THE MEDIA SEEM TO HAVE MORE INTEREST SPEND MILLIONS ON THE COVERAGE OF MICHAEL JACKSON AND IGNORE THIS KIND OF DOCUMENT COMPLETELY!
WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON HERE???
June 15th, 2005 at 1:37 amOne part of one memo stood out as a strong signal to me, and I have not seen any mention of it, (but I didn’t read 100 comments here).
June 15th, 2005 at 3:00 amIt is in the listed criteria for invasion, one item requiring “Quiescent Israel / Palestine conflict.”
The large implication is that US/UK can turn Israeli incitements up or down at will. Which certainly matches the cat’s-paw way that Israel crises have been staged for effect over the years, 4 decades now. Conflicts there seem all so contrived, or at least self-inflicted and that is to say self-determined. Not random. Not arbitrary. Not irregular. All of a pattern, deliberate steps in a larger scheme.
Too 105,106,107. Regarding my statement about HILTER AND BUSH: Go to http://www.furnitureforthepeople/actpat.htm There you will find more about Hilter/Bush
June 15th, 2005 at 10:00 amAP dropped the ball on the Downing memo
Newspaper editors looking for wire copy on the British prewar document came up empty. But it wasn’t just the Associated Press who neglected the story.
- – - – - – - – - – - -
By Eric Boehlert
June 14, 2005 | As American newspaper editors look back and examine why the controversial Downing Street memo, first published by the Times of London on May 1, received so little coverage in their papers, several of them are pointing to the same culprit: the Associated Press. Editors rely on the worldwide wire service to let them know what’s worthy of attention, and that’s particularly true for international events. In the case of the Downing Street memo out of London, they say the AP simply failed to cover the story.
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2005/06/14/ap_memo/index.html
June 15th, 2005 at 10:04 amAre you suggesting that Rupert Murdoch would allow bullshit to be printed in any of his publications? Are you suggesting that a man like Rupert Murdoch could be taken in as easily as the likes of Dan Rather? Are you suggesting that the documents in question are false, but that the information contained in them is legitimate, as was the case with the CBS TANG documents?
Comment by Pot meet Kettle  June 14th, 2005 @ 10:51 pm
Honestly, I wasn’t sugestin’ a thing. Just askin’, in light of the Dan Rather fiasco. Evidently, some blogs knew in advance that the CBS story had a flaw — noting the computer type font on a memo supposedly produced before word processors were invented. I notice the opposite — typewriting in the age of the computer. Fact that bloggers were reportingthis w/in five minutes of CBS report suggests a trojan horse strategy.
Substance of memos sounds genuine enough to me: The idioms and sensibilities seem to be British, the tones vary enough to sound like they come from different people, the argument is cogent, balanced and a bit cynical, as one would expect from people at this level of govcernment, etc.
As in the Rather episode, however, if the pedigree of these documents is impugned, their usefulness in argument is destroyed even if every word is true. Analogous to the koran-in-toilette problem for NEWSWEEK — source was off-base, but not by much. Still, NEWSWEEK was besmirched and Administration got to deflect well-aimed mud.
These Brit documents look like third generation xeroxes, like the original Pentagon papers. That used to be an indicator of genuineness — now it’s more of an indicator of hoaxing.
So what do you think the provenance of these documents actually is? I’m inclined to the theory that the text is accurate but was released in a form that is palpably deniable as a hoax.
One point on the substance: Did you notice how it is generaly assumed by the various authors that Iraq really did have WMD (at least bio and chemical) and that they were continuing to develop them? They admit that intelligence is poor, and also seem to think there’s no basis for believing in link to 9/11. Still, the fact that they really and truly believed there were WMDs in quantity suggests that they were not acting completely fraudulently. The public statements were fraudulent, but the private beliefs that gave rise to the policy of regime change seem sincere enough, even if factually incorrent and legally deficient.
June 15th, 2005 at 2:34 pmAnd today it’s been stated by eyewitness account that the US was bombing Baghdad 6 months or more before shock and awe began – see link
June 15th, 2005 at 5:11 pmhttp://www.commondreams.org/views05/0615-33.htm
So the DSM is really small potatoes – the war had already begun when the DSM was written
Eehh Gods!!
Well, it seems today is going to be the big day. On this day, Thursday June, 16th, finally the fall of George W. Bush will start off. His hubris and that of his entourage is exceedingly large. Some day it has to end in disaster. I’m pretty sure that day has come. I believe Congressman Conyers has gathered more than a million signatures for his letter to Bush. The latter will have to answer the questions. Of course those answers will be twisted and entirely inadequate and dissatisfying. The rest will be history, not a pretty one though. Of course, a next president will have to abandon Iraq. There will be carnage over there, over here a deepening of the already imminent political and economic crisis will be inevitable, (explaining the reluctance of the Democratic Party to be all too outspoken about this war and its ending: they haven’t got a clue as to how to find back any control over whatever the outcome is going to be after the current monkeys have been removed from the steering wheel.). The nightmare is going to end, and that is good, but regrettably, the awakening will not be pleasant either, on the contrary. I hope the US (and the rest of the world, especially Iraq) will recover from this terrible trauma within a reasonable time span, it won’t be easy though, the US has never been a good loser.
June 15th, 2005 at 6:52 pmI am so proud of your generation. You are truly thinkers. Perhaps you will eventually straighten us out.
June 15th, 2005 at 7:42 pmThe policies taken by this administration somewhat vaguely termed as justifiable acts of retaliation and/or retribution were nothing more than a disasterous attempt to quench the thirst for revenge of the American people. The horrific tragedy of 9/11 was a Godsend to a President that had no clue about a viable domestic policy or the intention of pursing one. The real needs of the American people have been ignored. We have to ask ourselves why it is easier to make war and destroy another country than to try to solve our problems here in the US. I read a quote recently that sums it up fairly well: ” Evil is allowed to endure when good people stand around and do nothing.”
June 16th, 2005 at 12:59 amAs much as we tout our democracy, government for the people and by the people, that makes us, as abhorrent as it may be totally complicent in the current administrations policies,
June 16th, 2005 at 1:47 amDid anyone else see the Frontline program over 2 years ago that showed that the plan to take Iraq started in 1992 when Wolfiwitz and Pearl went to the former Presidence Bush residence in Texas and asked about “priming his son” to take the presidency in 2000 specifally to Finish Iraq? The whole line up of the cabinet was for this agenda. The show has never been replayed since then and no doubt they got in trouble for it. I wish someone would do some investigative journalizm on this.
June 16th, 2005 at 3:20 pmHow can I (we) help make it possible that Bush is held accountable for what he has done? Amen to the person that commented bush lied , people died. AMEN AMEN AMEN!!!
June 16th, 2005 at 8:16 pmchange our Gov. NOW !!!
June 17th, 2005 at 12:00 amTo stop crimes against humanity US need credible and honest justice at Supreme Court .
This is not the case . See how she protects the political administration culprit of perjury under oath, breach of peace, war crimes, breach of treaty, breach of Supreme La
June 17th, 2005 at 4:09 amhttp://www.geocities.com/supremelaw7/
BUSH KNEW BEFORE HE AND CHENEY GOT ELECTED THAT THEY HAD TO TAKE SADDAN OUT TO STOP HIM CUTTING THE PRICE OF OIL WHICH COST THE BIG OIL COMPANIES AND THE SAUDIS BILLIONS OF DOLLARS EVERY DAY.WE ALL GOT CHEAP GAS,BUSH PUT AN END TO THAT BY INVADING IRAQ.AND 9/11 WAS CARRIED OUT BY THE SAUDIS TO GIVE BUSH A REASON TO BULLSHIT THE AMERICAN PUBLIC AS A REASOM TO ATTACK IRAQ.NOW IT IS CLEAR WHY BUSH AND CHENEY ATTACKED IRAQ AND USED THE U.S. MILITRY FORCES WITHOUT A LAWFUL OF MORAL PURPOSE;THAT IMMORAL USE OF FORCE WILL BE THE REASON THE ISLAMIC WORLD WILL HATE ALL OF US FOR CENTURIES TO COME,EVEN THOUGH INDIVIDUAL CITIZENS MAY DISAGREE WITH BUSH AND CHENEYS IMMORALITY,OUR BOYS WILL BE DYING FOR BUSH LIES FOR TIME INDEFINATE,MUCH WORSE THAN YOU COULD EVER IMAGINE,AND MUCH WORSE THAN VIETNAM WAS.THE ISLAMIC NATIONS HAVE NOW A “CAUSUS BELLI” , OR BELLIGERENT JUSTIFICATION,TO ATTACK U.S. AND BIG OIL INTERESTS FOR EVER.IT IS UNLAWFUL AND HISTORICALLY UNJUST TO USE LIES,DECEIT AND FRAUD TO CONCOCT A REASON TO USE MILITRY POWER TO MAKE PROFIT FOR THE BIG OIL COMPANIES,THE SAUDI ROYAL FAMILY AND THE HALLIBURTON/K.B.R. DIVISION WHO ARE CHEATING BOTH THE AMERICAN AND IRAQI CITIZENS OUT OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF REVENUES FROM IRAQI OIL THEY ARE STEALING. CITIZENS AND OUR ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES HAVE FAILED TO UNDERSTAND THIS OR NOT WANTED TO SEE A SIMPLE BUT EXTREMELY VICIOUS REASON FOR BUSH AND CHENEY TO FABRICATE AND EXCUSE TO PLUNDER ANOTHER COUNTRY.THE UNBELIEVABLE INHUMANITY OF THIS STAGGERING THEFT,AND THE TERMINATION OF CITIZENS CIVIL RIGHTS OF THE PATRIOT ACT,MAKES THE WHOLE WORLD ANGRY,AND WILL TRASH AMERICAN CLAIMS OF MORALITY IN ANY FUTURE MILITARY ACTION WHETHER OR NOT IT REALLY WILL BE NECESSARY FOR THE LAWFUL DEFENSE OF THIS NATION,WHICH SHOULD BE THE ONLY REASON FOR THE USE OF FORCE BY OUR MILITARY,LIKEWISE FOR THE BRITISH. NO WONDER TOMMY FRANKS AND COLIN POWELL QUIT WORKING FOR THESE MONSTRS WHEN THEY DID-TOMMY THREE WEEKS BEFORE THE INVASION OF IRAQ,AND COLIN WHEN HE COULD NO LONGER LIE TO THE UNITED NATIONS ABOUT USING AMERICAN MILITARY FORCE TPO MAKE PROFIT FOR THE SAUDIS,HALLIBURTON AND THE BIG OIL COMPANIES
June 17th, 2005 at 7:44 amSORRY FOR THE SPELLING MISTAKES-KIDS ARE ASLEEP,TYPING IN THE DARKMILITARY,TO,ETC I KNOW HOW TO SPELL!
June 17th, 2005 at 7:56 amIf the Democrats had a Karl Rove, an “Impeach Bush move” would be underway. Lying to Congress is a crime. How Colin Powell couldn’t have known better than to lie to United Nations, I’ll never know. Anyone who read Richard Clark’s book “Against All Enemies” had to know better. Howard Zinn’s “A People’s History of the United States” should be required reading for all voters.
June 18th, 2005 at 7:29 pmA special Prosecutor is in order.
June 20th, 2005 at 12:07 amMore on the Downing Street Memos: a confetti of leaks! And Republicans go anti-war???!
It seems that there are a lot of sources now leaking memos out of the British government, which help reveal a more complete picture of the mentality of the hawks early on… ThinkProgress.org has the full text of five different British government pape…
June 22nd, 2005 at 4:15 pmAfter a rally in Phoenix last night regarding the Downing Street Memo, and an AntiWar demonstration in front of the Bank One Ballpark after the game and a long day of freeway blogging, as I looked into the faces of masses of people with no emotion, I am pursuaded to the opinion that Americans do not want to take any responsibility for knowing the truth or searching out the truth. They are content to lose liberty and freedom. It is much easier to live in the Matrix so to speak. All the evidence it here, if you were nearly brain dead you would see what is happening in your face. There are no excuses. It appears we are living on another planet, torture is acceptable, war without reason is acceptable, losing freedom to random searches and indifinate detention without charge or conviction is acceptable. Nazi type concentration camps like that in Cuba, Afghanistan and Iraq is acceptable. The deaths of 25,000+ Iraqi civilians and who knows the real numbers of American soldiers dead and disabled as well as those from other countries and THIS IS ACCEPTABLE?? The christian right are so nice here they go out of their way to flip you the bird.
July 24th, 2005 at 10:23 pmI’m so absolutly disgusted with America and Americans I could puke. I love my country, I wish there were more of us that really did.
As I sit here and listen to the likes of Coulter, Hanity and those of their ilke, it has come to my attention that they allowing their selves to be lied to but are fully aware of of this fact It is just amazes me how they sointent on forwarding there agenda they are willing to say or do anthing to achive that goal.they claim that all liberals hate America and our secret wish is to distroy this country. they claim all we want is to distroy families,turn everyone gay and demonize anyone who shows any form of protest against this aministation,i’st polices and i’st blatant disregaurd for our privicy.If you are as digusted with these people as they countinue to advance the outrageous and disusting claims let your them know you will not be defaimed by these cheerleaders for the right. tell them they do not have the market cornered on values and how to bring up children. tell them they are responsible for making otherwise good people vote against their on self-intrest. don’t allow them to define what being a liberal. take back the meaning of liberal and stop allowing them to turn it into a bad word. for to long we as have allowed them to do that and have said nothing. take back our name folks, do’nt let them get away with trying make us appear ignorant our evil. lets take back this country from the people who are truly trying to distroy us and tear us apart.remember the first rule of war folks…..
July 27th, 2005 at 5:05 amdivide and conqer……J-Dub
BRUCE WILLS – keep in mind that no one likes to read an upper case text message, even though you had some good things to say.
August 14th, 2005 at 1:59 pmFancy Pants – IMO, your comments about dead “amerikans” doesn’t belong in this thread which is about real patriotic American’s trying to get their government back. You’re antagonizing the wrong group with that rhetoric. I think your being out of your mind because of a chemical imbalance is the only excuse for those comments. I would say most people reading this thread believe in a US that has real morale and ethical standards, not the bigotted, hypocritical ones espoused by the Christian far right, but the ones that seek to reduce conflict and promote reconciliation and common ground in the world. I do not and cannot hold the men and women in the military responsible for Bush’s madman policy. I support the foot soldier but not the war. I do hold those that voted Bush to a 2nd term and allowed the madness to continue, to be the responsible party.
I am NOT anti-semetic , but I do not believe in blind support for Israel and it’s actions.
No doubt we need to get the House back and then the executive branch. To do this, we need electable leaders who have minimal ties to special interest groups and have a true, non corrupt vision of America and it’s place in the world.
The silent majority ( 51% ?) don’t seem to care about Bush and Co lies, which the DSM so aptly prove. I am sure there is a large enough percentage of them that would vote Democrat and swing this country around if we gave them a candidate other than a Clinton. I repect Hillary but she certianly has a polarizing effect which we don’t need right now. And sure, the Democratic establishment has it’s self serving dark side but it’s the only power base we’ve got. Voting Green , or any other 3rd party just promotes more of the same old “stay the course” policy.
As Dems, we grew complacent and allowed our government to be hijacked. Little did we realize how a group of men could blatantly organize a coup, brainwash the public and execute that plan by legally getting elected.
I love my country and want it back.
I agree.
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January 19th, 2006 at 11:11 pm[...] This most-recent memo is just the latest in a series of official British government documents that have revealed shocking information about how Bush misled the nation into Iraq (see the original Downing Street Memo and the British Briefing Papers revealed previously by ThinkProgress). There are two things all these memos share in common: 1) none of the memos’ validity has been disputed, and 2) the U.S. media has been slow to cover every single one of them. In fact, while reputable British papers such as the Guardian, the Independent, and the Financial Times have already reported on the most recent memo, no American newspaper has. [...]
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