Bush Was For Prejudging, Before He Was Against It
By on Jul 13th, 2005 at 11:45 am
Bush Was For Prejudging, Before He Was Against It
Bush finally took some questions about Karl Rove. He refused to answer, saying “it’s important not to prejudge an investigation.”
Of course, that’s exactly what Bush did through his Press Secretary Scott McClellan:
Q All right. Let me just follow up. You said this morning, “The President knows” that Karl Rove wasn’t involved. How does he know that?
MR. McCLELLAN: Well, I’ve made it very clear that it was a ridiculous suggestion in the first place. I saw some comments this morning from the person who made that suggestion, backing away from that. And I said it is simply not true. So, I mean, it’s public knowledge. I’ve said that it’s not true. And I have spoken with Karl Rove —
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I love how all the accusations Bush and friends have made against their poltiical enemies (John Kerry is a “flip-flopper”) are all coming home to roost.
I guess karma exists – even in politics.
July 13th, 2005 at 12:01 pmGreat catch
Damn Internets coming back to haunt the Bush White House. I’m almost surprise http://www.whitehouse.gov hasn’t had some kind of “server error” where old transcripts are not longer available. (”Anyone seen Karl?” “I think the last time I saw Rove was heading to the White House Server room…”)
July 13th, 2005 at 12:10 pmCausing Bushie to make more false statements to the press is priceless.
We’ve got him on the ropes and he will go down as the WORST AMERICAN PRESIDENT ever!
votetoimpeach.org
July 13th, 2005 at 12:37 pmGo Susan !
July 13th, 2005 at 12:44 pmI watched Scotty McClellan on C-SPAN back peddling during Monday’s press conference. Several reporters were actually making inquiries that suggested they not only had teeth but knew how to use them. Gee, as recently as last October good ol’ Scotty had no problems shooting from the hip, answering questions from the lap-dawg press, but now that it is common knowledge that karl did in fact ‘finger’ and/or ‘out’ the good ambassador’s wife, ‘mumbs’ the word.
MEANWHILE — SOMEWHERE: In the back of cell-block ‘C’ in some federal prison Bubba Billy-Bob sits patiently awaiting his new celebrity bitch to arrive. There will be no more long cold winter nights for Bubba Billy Bob once his pastey and fluffy bitch makes the scene — Squeal like a pig, Karl; squeal like a pig you whimpering rat-BASTARD!!!
-Sky
July 13th, 2005 at 12:54 pmHe probably squeeks like a mouse Sky, no matter how hard it comes in.
He’s loose.
July 13th, 2005 at 12:59 pmGreat point brought up by Harold Meyerson in the Washington Post http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/12/AR2005071201367.html?referrer=email
Did Bush know that Rove was the leak when he promoted him to deputy chief of staff six months ago?
July 13th, 2005 at 12:59 pmYou kidding? That’s just the sort of dirty trick that will get a guy promoted in the Bush administration.
Of course, being right about WMD and required troop strength in Iraq will get you fired.
Does anybody else miss the days when the biggest complaint anyone had about the President was that he cheated on his wife?
July 13th, 2005 at 1:05 pmI’m sure he did bootz.
The outing was a part of the “fixing of intelligence”.
Wilson wouldn’t play ball and approve of an illegal war and Rove found a way to get rid of him.
This scandal reinforces the Downing Street Minutes accuracy of “fixed intelligence”.
Therefore, do not believe that the DSM is going away.
Patrick Fitzgerald will tie the two together and we will be victorious.
July 13th, 2005 at 1:07 pmROVE CONFETTI
Michael O’McCarthy
07-13-05
How Much Confetti (as used by military air during combat and surveillance missions, re: foil confetti used over Bagdad,) do we tolerate before we get to the target?
The target is NOT KARL ROVE: He is the Confetti, stupid.
He is a petit manager! You find these dupes in every major Peter Factor Corporation in the world. They exude the then party line better than anyone; master the method of implementation to take out the competition — if you actually believe that the Democratic Party is “competition” — Shit Joe Biden is begging for a DP Rove.
Were I the White House I would be in the thralls of joy.
Rove is replaceable. The Newt Gingrich of the hour. These mini Machiavellian Svengalies come and go like the charlatans they are. Their appearance and fall is the circus that distracts.
The “master minds” (God save us all) behind the imperious modus operandi are in high mode. Their major concern is the apparent failing of the imperial military scheme to control the world and its resources. It’s coming loose at the axles.
The Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld management team is at best incompetent, more than likely, simply faith-based dysfunctional.
The two petit wars in Afghanistan and Iraq always had two purposes:
1- Test the Neo-Con military imperial strategy for conquest and control of market and supply. (Oil and access in the immediate case.)
2- Invoke the Judea-Christian notion of capitalism, cum Democracy, as the ideology of the future; the under-girding mass psychological control of the to be conquered masses.
This issue is neither macho-Rove, nor the pathetically dysfunctional Con-Evangelical Prince, would be Emperor Bush.
It is a system of economic and social exploitation that is destroying the planet as a habitable and civilized place for human and animal alike to live.
This dizzying fodder of Get Rove — is nowhere near, Impeaching Bush-Cheny. The prize is dumping this carnivorous system that floats the Democratic and Republican political apparatus of the Corporate State.
Yes, I know the strategy – the tactic of going after the Villain Rove to get to Bush to get to Cheney. So we can elect another Clinton or a Kerry. What madness.
This most confusing fodder being fed to the American public is being played out while Bush and company implant and consolidate Corporate State talons in the world before the Chinese and Japanese bankrupt the bank.
Sure, headline the misdeeds of the Roves et al. But keep the search light eye on the enemy.
Yo’s Michael O
July 13th, 2005 at 1:22 pmHmm.. looks like the trolls have disappeared… Didn’t you get the RNC memo? You’re supposed to attack Joe Wilson, you zombies. Bring ‘em on!
July 13th, 2005 at 1:58 pmAfter seeing his press secretary rightly savaged by the White House press corps over the Karl Rove scandal, President Bush is doing what comes naturally – playing dumb.
On Wednesday, Bush returned to form, saying, “I will be more than happy to comment on this matter once this investigation is complete.” So much for his campaign 2000 pledge to “uphold the honor and dignity of the office.”
For more, see:
“Bush Plays Dumb on Rove”
July 13th, 2005 at 2:16 pmThere is no evidence that Rove gave Cooper the name, Val Plame. Where did Cooper get it then? Where did Novak get it? Why won’t time release the email to the public? You guys seem to know everything…can anybody answer with actual evidence and just speculation?
July 13th, 2005 at 2:29 pmCorrection.
July 13th, 2005 at 2:34 pm…not just speculation.
Aha! Thanks for accepting my invite, Steed…
There’s evidence that Rove said “Wilson’s wife” in his e-mail. Cooper and Novak could have got the real name from Google.
“At the time, a simple Google search of Wilson’s name would have turned up his biography on the Corporate & Public Strategy Advisory Group’s website. The biography, which referred to his wife as the “former Valerie Plame,” appeared on the site as far back as February 8, 2003, according to the Internet Archive’s Wayback Machine.”
Snap! Keep ‘em coming…
July 13th, 2005 at 2:41 pmBut did Rove know that Cooper and Novak had acces to the internets? You have no evidence!
July 13th, 2005 at 2:48 pm“Sure Rove is guilty, but they’re liberals.”
When cornered, attack. This is the strategy of rats, and of the GOP. (You can do your own compare/contrast of the two species.)
July 13th, 2005 at 3:05 pmYes, it certainly has been interesting to watch this unfold. And this is the administration that ran on integrity and national security?
for a jaded treatment: http://www.hairytruth.blogspot.com
July 13th, 2005 at 3:22 pmG’Day All:
Who was it who said, ‘She (Ambassador Wilson’s wife) is fair game’ or words to that effect after she was outed ~2 years ago or so?
Thanks!
-Sky
July 13th, 2005 at 3:41 pmThe next time someone says to you “Wilson lied when he said Cheney sent him to Niger,” point them here:
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2005_07_10.php#006082
Or go there yourself and see what lengths the RNC will go to in editing a transcript and making it say the opposite of what was originally said.
Yes, we all know they’re liars, but it’s nice to arm yourself for a snappy reply.
July 13th, 2005 at 3:43 pmSteed:
Don’t take up law as a profession. If you’re going to argue that Rove never gave up Plame’s name, and therefore did not reveal her identity, you’ve already lost your case.
It doesn’t take a genius to figure out who “Joe Wilson’s wife” is. Especially when they go to the same church as Rove.
July 13th, 2005 at 4:08 pmHer identity was well known. Thanks for confirming that. So much for the secret, covert agent Val Plame. What’s the crime gain? Outing a covert agent? Right.
July 13th, 2005 at 4:20 pmThe Whitehouse needs to come out and alteast tell the american people Plame was not undercover. This is what the right is saying.
July 13th, 2005 at 4:21 pmAnyone who supports the Bush Administration should be charged with treason.
July 13th, 2005 at 4:59 pmHer identity was well known. Thanks for confirming that. So much for the secret, covert agent Val Plame. What’s the crime gain? Outing a covert agent? Right.
Ya see, when someone is a “covert” agent, it doesn’t mean that nobody knows them. It means that nobody knows they’re an agent. Everyone thinks that the person is something other than an agent. Rove blew the cover for the whole operation, including front organization and many other operatives, by revealing that she wasn’t just an average citizen as people who knew her thought, but a CIA agent operating covertly.
Are you following this now? Can we make it any simpler for you?
July 13th, 2005 at 6:13 pmNobody seems to be able to prove that 1)Val was covert 2)If she was, we don’t know whether or not Rove did when he questioned Wilson’s credibilty, as in Wilson doesn’t have expertise in the subject but his wife’s connections got him the assigment. Besides, without the full email (that Time won’t release) no one can determine with certainty the actual intent of Rove bringing up Wilson’s wife.
As for my other questions that these know-it-alls can’t answer: Where did Novak get his information? I believe he uses the term “CIA operative”. Rove doesn’t say that in this email that we know of. So who’s Novak’s source, the first one use Val’s name? Finally, why won’t Time release the email to the public? What are they hiding?
With that said, you all should calm down until you have all of the facts…when the investigation is complete. Remember, it’s the paranoid irrational that demands immediate explanations and relies on uncertain evidence.
July 13th, 2005 at 7:48 pmI can prove Val was covert. The grand jury is involved in an “ongoing criminal investigation” regarding the leak. Therefore, the leak is a criminal matter. Therefore, Val was covert.
You’re right that we cannot prove Rove’s intent. We cannot prove the 9/11 hijackers’ intent either. The fact remains, Rove blew the cover of a CIA agent, her team, and her shell company. All in a time of war.
Nothing more needs to be said about Karl Rove’s motives. ;)
Your other questions are canards. A CIA agent’s cover was blown. Period. Now Republicans can do us a favor and continue to justify acts of treason. Tell us again how desk jockeys are not important to our national security, especially if they’re liberals.
July 13th, 2005 at 8:09 pmSteed-Steed-Steed, you ignorant slut, you really ought to do some reading; the fact is that many folks who thought they knew Valerie Plame well had no clue she was (in fact) a lady from Langley — no clue at all. She’s the real deal, dude. The fact is most folks knew her as ‘the ambassador’s wife’. No one knew. Git it?
Nevertheless, Karlie knew; he knew how it was that Wilson went to Niger — and here’s the zinger: Wilson was right and ‘the architect’ was wrong — along with every other reason this administration used to mislead us into an unwarranted invasion and occupation of Iraq, which brings us to the DSM (Downing Street Minutes).
You want to support this adminstration? Fine. They’ve got the blood of plenty of innocent victims on their hands; there’s plenty to share; go for it.
-Sky
July 13th, 2005 at 8:18 pmJust like I thought. Plenty of speculation, berating and insults, but no answers to legitimate questions.
By the way, sky, the Senate Intel Committee wrote a report that exposed Wilson’s lack of credibilty, backtracking and lying. Which led to Kerry giving him the swift kick off of his campaign. Wilson didn’t have an agenda. Right.
July 13th, 2005 at 10:00 pmSteed:
Like I said: Wilson was right and ‘the architect’ was wrong (Niger/yellow cake)  along with every other reason this administration used to mislead us into an unwarranted invasion and occupation of Iraq, which brings us to the DSM (Downing Street Minutes).
You support this illegitimate war? Fine; thanks for sharing.
-Sky
July 13th, 2005 at 10:22 pmSteed-
You make me laugh. Here is some proof for you, not that you will care since oyu are determined to maintain your one-sided viewpoint…
Nobody seems to be able to prove that 1)Val was covert
“If she was not undercover, we would have no reason to file a criminal referral,” the CIA official said, insisting on anonymity because of the sensitivity of the investigation.” – Source
Onto your next straw man…
2)If she was, we don’t know whether or not Rove did when he questioned Wilson’s credibilty
The above clearly indicates that in fact she was an undercover operative, and if Rove wasn’t aware of her status (which would be hard to argue given his position), then why all the secrecy in the email to Cooper? Why the deliberate avoidance of actually naming her (but making it very easy to figure out)? Seems like Rove knows the law regarding outing an operative, and used it as a guideline.
With that said, you all should calm down until you have all of the facts
Yes, this holds true for both those trumpeting that Rove is guilty, as well as those (like yourself) that seem adamant that he did nothing wrong. Wait for the facts before jumping to either conclusion.
Remember, it’s the paranoid irrational that demands immediate explanations and relies on uncertain evidence.
So, were you being paranoid and irrational when you said this?
Her identity was well known. Thanks for confirming that. So much for the secret, covert agent Val Plame.
Your evidence that her identity as an agent is uncertain at best (or have you even offered any?). Her identity as Joe Wilson’s wife was about the only thing well known about her prior to Novak’s story.
July 13th, 2005 at 11:53 pmRemember, it’s the paranoid irrational that demands immediate explanations and relies on uncertain evidence.
Your own words come back to haunt you again…
By the way, sky, the Senate Intel Committee wrote a report that exposed Wilson’s lack of credibilty, backtracking and lying.
Of course, your paranaoid irrational mind neglected to refer to the official record of that Senate Report:
“And they have made use of the Senate intelligence report — particularly additional comments filed by committee chairman Pat Roberts and two other Republican members of the committee, Kit Bond and Orrin Hatch — to pound Wilson. But not only does the get-Wilson crusade ignore the main question — did White House officials break the law and damage national security to take a swing at a critic? — it overstates and manipulates the material in the Senate report.” – Source
You may read the entire article for the rationale behind these statements. It is also worth noting that Wolf Blitzer had to constantly remind Ken Mehlman that his characterization (the same one you are making) about the Senate report is false, since it was inconclusive at best.
Link
July 14th, 2005 at 12:04 amIf it turns out that Karl Rove actually did say, “his wife is fair game”, and then outted her to the press, that is appalling. Putting human life in harm’s way is clearly a pattern with this administration.
July 14th, 2005 at 12:27 amhttp://www.iraqbodycount.net
Talking to Steed is like talking to a brick wall. You provide him/it with a ton of evidence and it still goes duh.
Please do not reproduce Steed, America could not handle it right now.
July 14th, 2005 at 1:03 amIf it turns out that Karl Rove actually did say, “his wife is fair game�
It’s not a question of if. He said it to Chris Matthews. Matthews reported that. Case closed.
July 14th, 2005 at 10:54 amHere’s what I don’t get: If it really WAS Rove that leaked anything at all to the press, it seems uncharacteristically sloppy on his part. He’s no dummy, I think we can all agree on that. So let’s suppose he wanted to discredit a WH critic (Wilson) by dragging his wife into the fray. He knows that intentionally revealing the identity of an agent is against the law, and sure he knew the leak would result in some news. SO if he expected to escape the ruckus unscathed, he either assumed the press would stick to their guns and protect their source (which by extension may be an implicit admission that the press aren’t the spineless liberal jerks the right always supposes them to be) OR that all of this wouldn’t ripple the pond enough and everyone would just ignore it, which is either politically naive or politically cynical, I’m not sure which. But this is sort of a pattern isn’t it, this gross miscalculation? I mean, the claims of yellow cake from Niger, the stockpiles of WMDs… The means to disprove these allegations were provided by these very statements! What were they thinking? That everyone would be lining up to pat them on the back, because the war would go splendidly and we would all come to agree that the ends justifies the means? Again, either amazingly naive or chillingly cynical (or mayhaps a bit of both).
July 14th, 2005 at 1:21 pmWhat were they thinking? That everyone would be lining up to pat them on the back, because the war would go splendidly and we would all come to agree that the ends justifies the means?
That’s exactly what happened. At least for the majority of Americans that decided to re-elect Bush. Hubris is an amazing thing when left unchecked, and so far nobody has bothered to check the Bush White House.
July 14th, 2005 at 2:23 pmBootz,
July 14th, 2005 at 5:59 pmChrissy Mathews didn’t report the “fair game” comment, Wilson did. When Chrissy was asked about it he said he wouldn’t comment about off the record conversations. Wilson has lied so much I wouldn’t give much weight to it.
Stewed:
Wilson has lied so much I wouldn’t give much weight to it.
I believe you meant to substitute your name for Wilson, and therefore we will take your advice and not give much weight to your comments. Especially when they are bald-faced lies.
Chrissy Mathews didn’t report the “fair game� comment, Wilson did.
Too bad this flies in the face of reality:
Now Karl Rove has become “fair game.”
That was the term that the president’s consigliere applied to Valerie Plame, according to Newsweek, in a conversation with MSNBC’s Chris Matthews immediately after the publication of Robert D. Novak’s column that identified Plame as a CIA operative.
Source
Doesn’t being completely full of excrement keep you up at night?
July 14th, 2005 at 6:09 pm