Lies About Rove’s Involvement Continue
Lies About Rove’s Involvement Continue
Small observation. The story being spun by Rove’s surrogates this morning is totally inconsistent with the facts.
On Fox and Friends this morning, former Rove deputy Ken Mehlman said:
One article last weekend was an article in Newsweek, which I thought exonerated Karl Rove in many ways. What it said was Karl Rove was not leaking anybody’s name, he didn’t know that name.
That’s not true. The Newsweek article recounts a conversation between Rove and Time reporter Matt Cooper on July 11, 2003. According to the New York Times (which Mehlman also claims “exonerates” Rove), Rove had a conversation with Robert Novak on July 8, 2003. Here is what happened during that conversation:
Mr. Rove has told investigators that he learned from the columnist the name of the C.I.A. officer, who was referred to by her maiden name, Valerie Plame, and the circumstances in which her husband, former Ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV, traveled to Africa to investigate possible uranium sales to Iraq, the person said.
After hearing Mr. Novak’s account, the person who has been briefed on the matter said, Mr. Rove told the columnist: “I heard that, too.”
So, at a minimum, Rove knew Valerie Plame’s name no later than July 8. This is significant because everything we’ve heard from Rove and his surrogates for the last two years about this case has been a lie. And they haven’t stopped.
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Its gotten really bad. Look at what the MSM is reporting now:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050715/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/cia_leak_rove_8;_ylt=Ai6mLiQoHfH1XrJSgWzozpxZJ_wA;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl
These guys must think they have everything undercontrol. Truth? What matters the truth? We create our own reality. Right?
Wrong. These buggers will roast in h**l for what they’ve done.
July 15th, 2005 at 11:57 amIsn’t the issue now (for those of us that are living in reality) just how much courage and integrity this guy Fitzgerald has? It’s all on him to see this through and that worries me. The Bushies destroy careers, destroy lives, kill by proxy…..can Fitzgerald stand the pressure? Will he risk his life and do the right thing, or will he work with the criminals to cut a deal that saves face all around. Also, as stated in a previous post, the hope late last week was that even if Rove and Co. were able to weasel their way out of legal trouble the ongoing media hysterics would be politically damaging. This is what the wave of propaganda (from everyone and with everything they’ve got on the right) is about, controlling the politics and the PR so that the American public doesn’t slip further away from Bush. Oh yeah, and saving Rove’s ass, they’re fvcked without him.
July 15th, 2005 at 12:23 pmRove Learned CIA Agent’s Name From Novak
WASHINGTON (AP) – Chief presidential adviser Karl Rove testified to a grand jury that he talked with two journalists before they divulged the identity of an undercover CIA officer but that he originally learned about the operative from the news media and not government sources, according to a person briefed on the testimony.
The person, who works in the legal profession and spoke only on condition of anonymity because of grand jury secrecy, told The Associated Press that Rove testified last year that he remembers specifically being told by columnist Robert Novak that Valerie Plame, the wife of a harsh Iraq war critic, worked for the CIA.
Rove testified that Novak originally called him the Tuesday before Plame’s identity was revealed in July 2003 to discuss another story.
The conversation eventually turned to Plame’s husband, Joseph Wilson, a former ambassador who was strongly criticizing the Bush administration’s use of faulty intelligence to justify the war in Iraq, the person said.
Rove testified that Novak told him he planned to report in a weekend column that Plame had worked for the CIA, and the circumstances on how her husband traveled to Africa to check bogus claims that Iraq was trying to buy nuclear materials in Niger, according to the source.
Novak’s column, citing two Bush administration officials, appeared six days later, touching off a political firestorm and leading to a federal criminal investigation into who leaked Plame’s undercover identity. That probe has ensnared presidential aides and reporters in a two-year legal battle.
Rove told the grand jury that by the time Novak had called him, he believes he had similar information about Wilson’s wife from another member of the news media but he could not recall which reporter had told him about it first, the person said.
When Novak inquired about Wilson’s wife working for the CIA, Rove indicated he had heard something like that, according to the source’s recounting of the grand jury testimony.
Rove told the grand jury that three days later, he had a phone conversation with Time magazine reporter Matt Cooper and – in an effort to discredit some of Wilson’s allegations – informally told Cooper that he believed Wilson’s wife worked for the CIA, though he never used her name, the source said.
An e-mail Cooper recently provided the grand jury shows Cooper reported to his magazine bosses that Rove had described Wilson’s wife in a confidential conversation as someone who “apparently works” at the CIA.
Robert Luskin, Rove’s attorney, said Thursday his client truthfully testified to the grand jury and expected to be exonerated.
“Karl provided all pertinent information to prosecutors a long time ago,” Luskin said. “And prosecutors confirmed when he testified most recently in October 2004 that he is not a target of the investigation.”
In an interview on CNN earlier Thursday before the latest revelation, Wilson kept up his criticism of the White House, saying Rove’s conduct was an “outrageous abuse of power … certainly worthy of frog-marching out of the White House.”
But at the same time, Wilson acknowledged his wife was no longer in an undercover job at the time Novak’s column first identified her. “My wife was not a clandestine officer the day that Bob Novak blew her identity,” he said.
Federal law prohibits government officials from divulging the identity of an undercover intelligence officer. But in order to bring charges, prosecutors must prove the official knew the officer was covert and nonetheless knowingly outed his or her identity.
Rove’s conversations with Novak and Cooper took place just days after Wilson suggested in a New York Times opinion piece that some of the intelligence related to Iraq’s nuclear weapons program was twisted to exaggerate the Iraqi threat.
Democrats continued this week to sharpen their attacks, accusing Rove of compromising a CIA operative’s identity just to discredit the political criticism of her husband.
On Thursday, Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid of Nevada pressed for legislation to strip Rove of his clearance for classified information, which he said President Bush should have done already. Instead, Reid said, the Bush administration has attacked its critics: “This is what is known as a cover-up. This is an abuse of power.”
Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., said Democrats were resorting to “partisan war chants.”
Across the Capitol, Rep. Rush Holt, D-N.J., introduced legislation for an investigation that would compel senior administration officials to turn over records relating to the Plame disclosure.
Pressed to explain its statements of two years ago that Rove wasn’t involved in the leak, the White House refused to do so this week.
“If I were to get into discussing this, I would be getting into discussing an investigation that continues and could be prejudging the outcome of the investigation,” White House spokesman Scott McClellan said.
July 15th, 2005 at 12:27 pmhttp://apnews.myway.com/article/20050715/D8BBQEVO0.html
“Karl provided all pertinent information to prosecutors a long time ago,� Luskin said. “And prosecutors confirmed when he testified most recently in October 2004 that he is not a target of the investigation.�
I hope Wilson and his wife are packing.
July 15th, 2005 at 12:31 pmThe Solomon story is crap, a botched job. But pin your hopes on it. :)
July 15th, 2005 at 12:43 pmHere’s a pretty complete set of articles, briefings, and other essential documents for the Rove scandal.
As for Scott McClellan, rumor has it that he is in a persistent vegetative state.
July 15th, 2005 at 12:46 pmTwo things about the WashPo story.
1. It yet again disproves the MSM is liberally biased hoax.
2. “The person, who works in the legal profession and spoke only on condition of anonymity because of grand jury secrecy, told The Associated Press that Rove testified last year” is dubious at best and further muddies the waters, which is the goal of both the Bushies and the Post.
July 15th, 2005 at 12:46 pmThe source for those articles in NYT, WP and AP is probably Luskin, Rove’s lawyer. He is spilling bullshit to the masses. Are we suppose to believe that Rove got his information from a reporter (and doesn’t remember his/her name) and then talked to another reporter about that information especially when it relates to a CIA agent. Rove is not stupid. He is the “architect”. First, Rove knows who gave him that information (I am sure he has a photographic memory). Second, any information about a CIA agent he should have checked out. Of course he knew she was covert. Rove is going to be indicted for perjury for all this horseshit.
July 15th, 2005 at 12:51 pmAravosis has a good critique of the AP stry. Atrios, too.
And this. Dynamite. No wonder the nuts are almost flipping out.
http://americablog.blogspot.com/
All’s well that ends well” is not the appropriate response to the London bombings
You’ll recall I reported last night that the Bush administration botched the UK effort to thwart the London Tube and bus bombings last week.
Well, I was just alerted by Jamie McCarthy to a reporter’s question posed to former Secretary of Homeland Security Tom Ridge on September 16, 2004 about the botched effort.
Note Ridge’s incorrect assertion that as a result of the leak and the overall US bungling there was in essence no harm, no foul as a result – i.e., everything worked out okay anyway. Wonder if the Bush administration is going to retract that now.From the US Embassy Web site in Britain:
QUESTION: Richard Norton-Taylor of The Guardian. Could I follow up that question, and some concern has been expressed probably normally privately here about the amount of information America…. people say maybe the Americans say too much, phrases like crying wolf were mentioned and so on. I just wondered if you had any comment on that?
SECRETARY RIDGE: Well, I believe you’re referring, probably, to some background information that was shared, no-one really knows the source. But I know there was the regrettable disclosure of information that British officials would have much preferred to remain confidential, at least during the time of apprehension and the decision-making as to whether or not they should be held and then charged. And I assure you it wasn’t part of any public pronouncement relative to raising the threat level from the Department of Homeland Security. And there was clearly an insensitivity by the individual who disclosed that information to the process and to the demands on our friends who are co-operating with us in terms of their own legal process. So the expression of displeasure based on the leak or that source of that information being made public, and the potential to complicate the life of the authorities in Great Britain, frankly, was an appropriate expression of disappointment and displeasure. I have no argument with that.
There is a different process here. We need to be respectful of the legal and the constitutional means by which we conduct our business and I’d hate to see that kind of that situation recur with the frequency or the severity that would impair the extraordinary collaborative relationship we have. So I can say, from my perspective, the public expression of disappointment and displeasure was appropriate. As it turned out, all’s well that ends well, but understanding the restrictions and the conditions under which your law enforcement community operates in this country, we should do everything we can to avoid compromising or undermining it, period.
July 15th, 2005 at 12:52 pmI defy anyone to explain the AP headline
“Rove Learned CIA Agent’s Name From Novak”
from reading that article.
Rove certainly didn’t *learn* from Novak, he *confirmed* for Novak.
Also, the issue of “Name” vs. “Identity” while possibly irrelevant is never dealt with in the article.
The headline clearly should be:
July 15th, 2005 at 12:53 pm“Rove Confirms CIA Agent’s Identity for Novak”
The source for those articles in NYT, WP and AP is probably Luskin, Rove’s lawyer
Bing0!
July 15th, 2005 at 12:53 pmBlowjobs! Still worse than treason!
http://allspinzone.com/blog/index.php?itemid=855
Stunning Rove revelations!
http://tomburka.com/archives2/2005_07.php#000832
July 15th, 2005 at 12:58 pmAfter thinking about this awhile, I believe there may indeed be hope. Here’s why.
The CIA originally brought the case forward. They had/have very serious concerns about the damage done by Robert Novak. Not once, but twice. First by identifying Valerie as a CIA agent. Second by identifying the NOC she worked for.
One of the reasons this is taking as much time as it is, is that the investigation has expanded. It now includes looking into what has happened to the CIA agents who worked with Valerie in the NOC, and the effects the Novak article has had on the on-going CIA operations. One of the more important operations (at least in times like these) was the NOC’s tracking/tracing of WMD on a global basis.
The investigation is looking into, apparently, what happened to the field agents post-Novak. Some were killed. Some may still be in-country.
In any event, the entire operation has been compromised.
It is very clear that the compromising information came from inside the MonkeyPalace. In the least, Rove was involved. People from Dick Cheney’s office were too. And some of the compromising information came during an AirForce One flight to Africa (if memory serves) as part of telephone calls that were made from AF1.
So contrary to the spin article I linked to earlier in this section, I don’t care what Rove said. He may have committed purgery. And BushCo may attempt to use this bluff to scream and howl “foul” as they drag Rove and the other off. That Repugs are saying “see, we told you so”, only underscores just how shallow they are and quick to believe their sainted leader. Remember, Rove could easily have committed purgery with the feeling that Bush had him covered.
The strength that Bush has at this point is the GREAT WHIRLING HOWLING MONKEY BUSINESS SPIN MACHINE. If that’s all he has, then he and his administration may see jail time (eventually). But if he has a few judges in his pocket, some of them may still walk. It rather depends upon 41’s level of influence with the Judicial branch. And it may also depend upon the Judicial appointments that BuchCo has made. If he and his father have chosen and influenced “wisely”, they’ll all walk free. But if, as I hope, there’s enough strength outside of the BushCo Regime, we could still get lucky and be partying in the streets over America’s liberation from tyranny and fascism.
Stay tuned.
July 15th, 2005 at 1:05 pmFox News!
Not again..
BAAAAAAARRRRRFFFFFF!
Please tell me they wash the toys after each use.
I’m better now.
votetoimpeach.org
July 15th, 2005 at 1:09 pm“I heard that, too.�
Rove heard it when it came out of his own mouth while disclosing Plame’s id to one of the many reporters he was shopping it to.
July 15th, 2005 at 1:12 pmIf Rove goes away, the Bushmen have a serious problem. I believe they will stop at nothing in creating this latest reality and ensuring that it sticks. Keep talking and typing folks, they cannot be allowed to escape this.
Here is Wilson’s letter to the Senate Select Intelligence Committee that debunks all of the rightwing spin straight from the horses mouth:
http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/05/07/con05233.html
JCGoW
I love that you called it the “MonkeyPalace”, that made me laugh out loud, with visions of the Chimp in Chief swinging from the chandeleirs.
July 15th, 2005 at 1:15 pmNew… TREASON PAINTING
Go to http://www.RogerART.com
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Thank U, Staff@RogerART.com
July 15th, 2005 at 1:22 pmIf only the “Save Rove” paid activists would spend half as much energy trying to “Save Africa” or “Save the Bengal Tiger” … isn’t that what Jesus would do?
July 15th, 2005 at 1:25 pmIsn’t “Save Rove” like saying “Save the Whales”?
They’re both similar sized. Though I’m certain that whales are more discerning, have better taste in friends, are less prone to voilence, and mate with the opposite sex of their own species. :-)
July 15th, 2005 at 1:30 pmNovak’s own statement contradicts story that HE told Rove about Plame, and not vice versa
Astute reader Ted just alerted to what appears to be a lie from either Novak or Rove….
http://americablog.blogspot.com/2005/07/novaks-own-statement-contradicts-story.html
July 15th, 2005 at 1:31 pmFitzgerald isn’t doing this for fun. If no crime has been committed as a result of the leak, as the trolls like to say, I say fine because that means it’s obstruction, perjury and conspiracy he must be looking at, and involves many more in the admin.
Bring it on.
July 15th, 2005 at 1:36 pmI’d be happy if all they tried to do was Save the US (and not just the republicans). I’m not going to hold my breath though.
July 15th, 2005 at 1:50 pm…and today we learn that Rove’s latest defense is that he learned about Plame from Novak! These people either have no shame whatsoever, or they take the American people for fools. The sad truth is its both.
for an additional slant: http://www.hairytruth.blogspot.com
July 15th, 2005 at 1:55 pmAw…FBA is all in a tizzy over, well who even knows. But the link he provided is an absolute riot!
Fake but accurate’s mental drippings
July 15th, 2005 at 2:04 pmThis exchange from Yesterday’s CNN :
JOHN KING: What does the White House think of Joe Wilson’s stepping into the spotlight here?
DANA BASH: They couldn’t be happier, John. Politically, they were quite thrilled, actually, to see Joe Wilson come out today. Why? Because they think that he has a credibility problem, that if you go through the details of how this story started and where it is today, just the fact that if you go into why Karl Rove, they say, was calling Matt Cooper from Time magazine in the first place, it was to veer him off of the idea that the vice president was the one who sent Joe Wilson on this mission to Africa, and they say that turned out to be false. So they welcome the fact that Joe Wilson is here today.
DARTH : Why do you keep repeating GOP talking points, bitch? All you have to do is read the Op-ed piece where Wilson said, “The agency officials asked if I would travel to Niger to check out the story so they could provide a response to the vice president’s office.” The White House may be happy to see Wilson in public, but ONLY because you keep sucking up to them. Stupid Bitch.
July 15th, 2005 at 2:06 pmBook plug: Eric Alterman “What Liberal Media?”
July 15th, 2005 at 2:14 pmNow it comes out in the WaPo that Rove’s lawyer accepted half a million dollars in gold bars from a South American drug cartel.
Where do they find these guys?
July 15th, 2005 at 2:25 pmWhy don’t we just shoot the son-of-a-bitch and be done with it?
July 15th, 2005 at 2:36 pmBecause we’re liberals? I’d like to offer therapy and understanding. Boot therapy right in his pasty behind, and understanding that he’s going to pay for this.
July 15th, 2005 at 2:47 pmI warned you libs not to get your hopes up. You can’t nail Bush or his merry men. Why? You libs aren’t smart enough!
July 15th, 2005 at 10:14 pmBush has run circles around you bunch of morans for 5 years.
Give it up! Join the Peace Corps. You guys spew so much hate and venom that no one can take you seriously. With all your BS you have made Bush immune to your asinine accusations and allegations. Its fun to watch your party disappear into the abyss of irrelevency. Your pathetic, all of you!
W runs circles around no one, and why are you here if we Progressives are so pathetic. If that were true, we would matter little to you tards.
July 15th, 2005 at 10:49 pmSeems like you are in love dildo man. Us morans are quite attractive aren’t we.
What site do you hang out at? Guarantee you’ll see no one here hangin’ there.
..and really you are just joking, right? Cause the bait is too good to be true.
Norman, poor Norman. I wish I knew what the hell your talking about. Strike that. Whats the difference?
July 15th, 2005 at 11:02 pmMike-
Welcome back! I thought you had permanently retreated under that bridge of yours, but here you are back and posting just as much irrelevant rubbish as ever!
Good to see you again.
July 15th, 2005 at 11:25 pmHere, I’ll spell it out for you. You are attracted to this site.Right? You are interested in us, and what we think.Right? We are not interested in you and your opinions.OK. They only prove what we already know,that you guys are not real bright. Simple enough moron?
July 15th, 2005 at 11:29 pmMy theory : Just like rust, right wing facists never sleep.
July 15th, 2005 at 11:42 pmKeep on Rockin in the Free World!
Norman, the reason they (trolls) come here is because redstate.org is formatted by someone with dislexia which makes it impossible to read from left to right.
July 16th, 2005 at 12:03 amBTW,
Rove couldn’t have heard this information from novak, as the timeline doesn’t support that.
Also, Judd, you may want to add this point to your story–the memeo in question does not call the CIA agent in question by her maiden name–she is referred to as Valerie Wilson throughout the memo, not Valerie Plame, and thus, the connection between Valerie Palme as Valerie Wilson was, ipso facto, discussed.
For the fellow wondering about how Fitsgerald is faring under the potential consequences of this case, you should look at this man’s record. He is absolutely fearless, and you will doubtlessly note that the Republicans will not attack him, they won’t be able to lay a glove on him, either through intimidation or smearing/slander/libel.
Fro those that don’t know, Pat Fitsgerald, from Brooklyn, went to working class City University and then to Harvard Law. He is a Republican, and was appointed by Jamie Comey, the asst. AG when Ashcroft recused himself in this case. Fitzgerald got where he is today, by prosecuting some of the most dangerous criminals in history–namely, he prosecuted and broke up the Gamibino/Gotti family operation in NY, sucessfully operated Sheik Rachman, the mastermind behind the first WTC bombings, and has indicted Osama bin Laden for prosecution once he is captured, and has bben tapped by the administration to be the chief prosecuting attorney on bin Laden, should he ever come to trial.
it is highly unlikely that the White House or its surrogate attack poodles will be able to attack Pat Fitzgerald on the usual nonsense they espouse.
July 16th, 2005 at 7:45 pmJohn S./ Norman:
My Wife and I just read your comments. Much to my dismay my wife laughed and AGREED wih you guys! Since my wife is ALWAYS right then so, you both must also be correct. I guess I’m a Conservative troll! To tell you the truth guys, I’ve been called alot worse things. I’m also sure THAT does not surprise you.
THe reason I “hangout” at this site is that I love teaking you guys! You guys get soooo upset!
July 16th, 2005 at 10:45 pmUh, Mike? We can’t get too upset over someone who says:
“You libs aren’t smart enough! Bush has run circles around you bunch of morans for 5 years.”
Don’t insult the intelligence of others if you can’t spell the insult. Just doesn’t work Mike. Seriously, if you want us to take you seriously don’t write like a 12 year old.
And don’t be a “teaking” troll, Mike. Trolls are dismissed, out of hand, as assholes.
July 17th, 2005 at 6:08 pmJust imagine how conservatives would have reacted had Al Gore or James Carville or somebody in the clinton WH would have outed an undercover CIA agent purely for retaliatory reasons and caused American operatives overseas to be killed, to destroy our deepest infiltration into the source of Al Qaeda’s funding (Saudi oil), etc…
The fact that conservatives are defending Rove’s behavior should be the final clue to the sheep that right wing conservatives are immoral, evil people.
July 17th, 2005 at 6:59 pmIf there is a consistant pattern with the Bushies, its that no one ever gets fired. These people didnt respect the rule of law when they stole the election, lied us into a war, and deflected the blame for the intelligence failures of 9/11 and Iraq. For Rove to be fired, that would have to change. Nothing is going to happen to Rove. They will continue to stall and reconstruct their version of the truth until public interest wanes. If they felt accountable to the American people, which to the contrary, they have demonstrated an almost overt contempt of, we might have some hope. But they feel completely above the law.
July 17th, 2005 at 7:29 pmGiven that, during a time of war, Rove and others in the WH revealed the identity and mission of a CIA agent working against the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction, if we are, God forbid, ever hit by a weapon of mass destruction at the hands of terrorists, we will never know — BUT FOR the reprehensible conduct of Rove and Novak in neutralizing an American intelligence asset — whether tens of thousands of American might not have lost their lives.
July 17th, 2005 at 7:29 pmIt’s true the Republicans are distorting when they pretend that Joe Wilson was going around claiming that Vice President Cheney personally asked him to go to Niger. But if you understand the Bush-think mindset, you have to conclude that Wilson’s explanation for why he went on the trip is also false and in a way that made Cheney, Rove, et al see red.
Wilson said he was sent to Niger because people in Cheney’s office questioned if the intelligence that Iraq was trying to buy uranium yellow cake in Niger was reliable and they asked the CIA to look into it. And then, so the story goes the CIA sent Wilson to investigate the situation on the ground in Niger.
This explanation also has to be wrong, and though it is possible that someone at CIA hoodwinked a naive Wilson into believing it, by now Wilson has to be aware that it could not be true. Cheney would never have kept anyone on his team who had the temerity to have questions about yellow cake in Niger or any other justification for the Iraq War. The very idea that questions about justifications for attacking Iraq could originate in the Vice President’s office is to them shocking in BushWorld.
We Liberals need to remind ourselves that the Bushies don’t think like us. We believe in sorting through the evidence before coming to a conclusion. We value leaders who are good at looking at both sides of an issue and sum it all up to a sound conclusion based on the evidence.
The Bush/Cheney method for reaching conclusions is much more faith based. They just knew that Saddam Hussein had to be hiding a WMD program including a program to re-invent nuclear bombs. And then when the Brits said they had evidence, the Bushies thought that if even those liberals with socialized medicine can see Iraq is a threat no loyal American could question it.
The allegation that Cheney would allow such a disloyal questioner is offensive, because it might lead to someone questioning Cheney’s own loyalty. And Loyalty to the Faith is a paramount virtue in the Bush White House. You remain loyal to the President and he will remain loyal to you. George Tenet didn’t get the Presidential Freedom Medal because the CIA provided accurate intelligence enhancing our fight against terrorism, he got it for loyally taking the blame for incorrect intelligence.
No, it couldn’t have been anyone in the loyal Vice President’s office who questioned that Iraq went after yellow cake in Niger. It had to be one of those Liberal traitors at CIA, probably his wife.
July 17th, 2005 at 7:44 pmTo use an old Louisiana term (well sorta), ” It’s the mean-spiritedness, Stupid. Just as it was with Nixon, Rove’s father figure, this thing with Rove has given Americans, who are not political junkies as we most uf us are. are getting a giant peek at something very ugly; the inner workings of the Bush White House.
What’s more, they are beginning to pay attention and they are realizing that there is a pattern of behavior here, with this White House. That pattern includes a couple of cardinal sins; 1)Deception, especially about very important things, like why the hell we have lost so much blood and treasure in Iraq, when none of the reasons that were drummed into the public mind, day in and day out for 9 months were true in the least. Members of this administration have now admitted this, and are on record as having done so. But, if one only watches Fox news and listens to Rush Limbaugh, one would not know that.
The great middle, the dyed in the wool Independents, many evangelicals, mainline Christians, and people who gave up on the political process years ago, because they didn’t like the over-protective, meddling Mommies the Democrats became any more than they liked the cruel, sadistic, judgemental father the Republicans came to represent.
How do I know this? Because I do not hang out with just liberals. I do have liberal friends and they refer to me as moderate, but I don’t feel real moderate right now. I have more moderate friends and friends that labeled our political system corrupt years ago, becoming more and more infected by corporatism with each passing year. It is the moderates and the one’s who haven’t really cared before who are beginnigng to say, “Enough is Enough.”
We are all around the same age, lived through Vietnam and the 60’s and we all feel like we are having a horrible flaskback.
This is so similar to Watergate that it is just erie, but worse, much worse.
July 17th, 2005 at 8:03 pmI hope people understand that today’s “neocons” are simply some hybrid of fascists and nazis and that the 30 – 40 million of Americans who are neocons must be permanently destroyed and marginalized as the unamerican, fascistic creeps they are.
By demanding that “never again,” I’m not telling people to specifically vote progressive, liberal or moderate. I”m simply saying that the 75% of us who are not conservatives must unite and stop these creeps.
July 17th, 2005 at 9:08 pmA couple of points on Joe Wilson.
Prior to his wife being outed as a CIA agent, Joe Wilson was the quintessential non partisan (albeit a Republican supporter) individual who simply served his country whether his country was run by Democrats or Republican. He only cared about the truth, whatever that truth turned out to be.
Wilson
1) Gave money to Bush/Cheney in 2000.
2) Supported Bush’s father.
3) Received a letter from Bush’s father a couple of days after Wilson wrote the NYT article complimenting Wilson.
4) Served for Bush’s father as an ambassador.
The GOP talking points attempt to label Wilson as a far left, Move On democratic hack. (Which, even if he was, doesn’t take away from the veracity of his claims.)
July 17th, 2005 at 9:16 pmBut to the republicans, if you agree with them 98% of the time but differ on an issue like stem cell research, you get besmirched as “far left” or liberal as well. To a neocon, a liberal is somebody who disagrees with them more than 1% of the time. Funny, but a guy in Germany used to label his opponents as liberal the same way.
Congressional Hearings should be helded immediately, for (A) steroids in baseball? (B) custume malfunction in A superbowl? (C)emergency hearings on shirvo’s feeding tube removal? (D) on W.M.D. agent, being outed by someone in the White House. A national security problem? Does any one no which hearings we’ve had?
July 18th, 2005 at 10:45 amIt is my humble opinion that this “administration” will go down in history as the worst Republican regime to ever soil the federal government. This far surpasses the Nixon admins corruption or that of Reagan or Bush 41. If we go back in recent (20th century) history, one will find that of all presidential scandals, the one the neo-cons beat like a dead horse is Bill Clinton lying about an affair with an intern. Let’s compare this hypocrisy to the Watergate cover-up, the Iran/Contra scandal and the current administrations voluminous lies that have led to the deaths of 1700+ U.S. service men and women, has maimed and permanently disabled tens of thousands, killed as many innocent Iraqi civilians (including many women and children). This current scandal involving Bush hatchet-man Karl Rove is just one instance in a long laundry list of possible crimes committed by the Bush junta and the Republican party as a whole. Ever since the completely moronic (and possibly illegal) “appointment” of Bush to the White House in 2000,it seems that the entire GOP has viewed this as a license to steal, lie and cheat to achieve their political and financial goal of a one party, pro-business, unilateral fascist theocracy. And no rule of law has constrained these ideologues from forging ahead in their corrupt quest for power. Karl Rove is a symptom of a larger sickness that has infected our political system. His abuse of power and ability to manipulate a lazy, self-centered media into furthering the lies and propaganda of the far right is also an indictment of the American people as a whole. Our complete disconnect as a people, as regards our elected officials, and our inability to hold our leaders accountable for their actions, is in large part our own fault. We have become too desensitize to political scandal to pay any attention. And our own unwillingness to demand more than entertainment “fluff” and official “spin” of journalists is why American politics has become the cesspool of corruption and greed that it has. In the past treason during wartime was a capital offense. I’m not saying that Rove should face a firing squad, but when his name first became public as Matt Coopers’ source, he should have immediately been fired and all protections as a government operative rescinded. But true to the neo-con playbook this is being “spun” as a partisan attack and nothing so far has been done to this modern day Benedict Arnold. I guess crime doesn’t pay unless your a Republican. Just ask Karl or Randy “Duke Cunningham or possibly the entire GOP of Ohio (”Coingate”). I find it impossible to fathom that (allegedly) 51% of my fellow Americans thought that Bush and his cronies, both inside and outside of government really stood for “family values” and were defenders of “American morals”. So far the only “family values” this administration has upheld would make the Gambino and Bonanno family jealous.
July 18th, 2005 at 11:17 amI am all for Bush keeping Rove on and watching the Rovegate fungus lead us all the way back to the top. The longer he keeps him around the more damage it does and the sooner they all will fall. Let them spin away with their lies and dig their hole deeper http://karlrovesucks.com
July 18th, 2005 at 12:55 pmInteresting point, http://thecommonills.blogspot.com/2005/07/nyt-roves-latest-talking-point.html :
If people are paying attention to today’s talking point, Rove just ratted somebody out (though he probably doesn’t realize it). Did he tell who he got the information from?
No.
But the talking point advises us that the deputy of national security knows the press is talking about Valerie Plame being a CIA agent. Did Hadley follow up?
Don’t toss out any nonsense that, “They may not have known she was undercover!” Hadley’s job should have required him to find out what Plame’s position was. Regardless of what her job was, the CIA should have been advised what was about to break. And Plame should have been warned.
Was the CIA advised? I don’t know. But from Joseph Wilson’s reactions, Plame sure wasn’t warned. From his statements, she didn’t get a heads up. Novak’s column appears on the 14th of July. Rove talks to Cooper on the 11th of July. In those three days, what did Hadley do? What was the administration doing? (Yeah, I know, probably helping the story along, but that’s not in their talking points.)
How did Hadley follow up? Did he report it to his superior? (Condi Rice.) What measures did they take to protect Plame? She wasn’t assigned body guards at the time. Wilson’s made no reference to her getting a call that said, “Hey Val, just a heads up, the press are talking about you, you’re probably going to be the topic of a story and be named. Those friends and neighbors that don’t know anything about who you really work for — you might want to break it to them.”
Hadley’s job was not to protect Bully Boy from fading poll numbers. His job was national security.
If people are paying attention to today’s talking point, one question should be, “What was done when Hadley was informed?” What steps got taken?
Was the CIA informed what was coming down the pike?
Or was everyone who is supposed to be working for the nation suddenly under the impression that their job was serving on the election committee for the Bully Boy?
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