‘Like an Insect’
By on Jul 15th, 2005 at 6:13 pm
‘Like an Insect’
From a White House pool report this afternoon:
On the tarmac in North Carolina, your pool was able to walk briefly alongside the president and ask if he still had faith in Karl Rove.
The question was met with a stare straight ahead, silence and a quick brush-off motion of Bush’s left hand, as if the president were Swatting away an insect.
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Not just any insect. Swarm of angry hornets.
July 15th, 2005 at 6:19 pmAh. The King dismissing his no longer adoring legions. [swat!]
July 15th, 2005 at 6:24 pmI’m not one for posting novels but this should help the Republicans here feel the pulse of America.
This comes from the Democratic National Committee’s call for responses to the Plame outing.
http://www.democrats.org/comeclean
“I switched to Republican over 30 years ago, but now feel increasingly betrayed by and ashamed of the power-crazy dishonesty and the distorted values of the current leadership of the GOP. Tom DeLay does not speak or stand for most American Republicans. Neither does Karl Rove, who should be fired and severely punished if indications are correct. Can we trust you, Mr. President? Please give us the real, open truth.” Jeb E., Palo Alto, CA
“I am a registered and disappointed Republican. Don’t make this situation worse – ‘fess up and fix the problem.” Karen H., Fort Collins, CO
“I am a registered Republican and want this current administration to admit the fault and fire Rove now! Decent Americans lose their jobs over less.” Alice C., Wilmington, DE
“I vote for whoever I think will do the best job — Democrat, Republican, Independent — and this is the time for elected officials to do their best job: honor their word, honor their country, and honor those they govern by upholding not only the law but what is moral and right. In this case, it is to remove whoever is responsible for leaking the CIA agent’s identity.” Nancy O., Van Buren, AR
“As a registered Republican, I join with those that say enough is enough! Time to clean house!” Tim M., Milan, OH
“I am registered Republican. However, the behavior of this administration isn’t part of my Republican Party. Start by taking responsibility for both the good and the bad decisions of the administration. … Mr. Rove has now stepped over the line. President Bush, like his father, needs to request Mr. Rove’s resignation.” Ed S., Newport Beach, CA
“As a registered Republican, the recent revelations regarding Karl Rove’s role in the leak of a CIA operative’s identity has me greatly concerned. I am sure that a great majority of Americans would agree that now is not the time for silence and evasive actions on the part of the administration. Please address this issue immediately so that our country can move forward, united in the truth, and so that we can move on to focusing on the many challenges and opportunities of our times. Thank you.” Diane W., Ephrata, CA
“I was a good Republican for all my life, but can no longer stomach the people that excuse the behavior of those who squelch any and all who question and think for themselves. Please stand up and do what is right.” Lana H., Fort Worth. TX
“Truth is an awesome thing. As an American whose husband and son have served in our military I wonder if you could possibly condone a leak of information which jeopardizes our national security. I would like to see the Republican Party speak honestly as they used to speak when I was a registered Republican. We seem to be emulating the Nixon era … I can no longer support the Republican party.” MaryKay D., Columbus, OH
“As a registered Republican I am concerned about the failure of the Bush administration to follow through with its promise with anyone who comprises the security of a CIA agent and our country. Karl Rove has gone too far and must resign or be dismissed.” Jan O., Yorba Linda, CA
“As a Republican … I have to insist that the president and my party affiliates in Washington tend to the accountability of Karl Rove or face yourselves the possibility of being called part of a cover-up conspiracy. You are ELECTED officials entrusted to the security of all Americans. For God’s sake get responsible.” Marilynne R., Glendale, AZ
“As a lifelong Republican, who has been voting and supporting this great country for close to 50 years, I am outraged that a member of your administration would damage this nation’s interests for petty, partisan, political reasons. Mr. Rove and anyone else involved in this despicable act should be fired …” Donald E., Pittsfield, MA
“As a registered Republican, I’m shocked that Karl Rove would sink so low as to reveal our CIA agents. It is really time to ask Karl Rove to resign to spare this president further embarrassment.” Charles B., Sarasota, FL
“I have been a Republican almost from birth. No more, no more!!! This latest group of Republicans have disgraced the memory of all noble Republicans that preceded them. I am a city trustee in Illinois and speak loudly and regularly at counsel meetings regarding the Bush ethics and to date have thoroughly convinced several other members to take a closer and more focused look at the way the Bush administration has controlled the rhetoric regarding most issues.” Dave B., Mount Olive, IL
July 15th, 2005 at 6:33 pmThanks. My fears that there are no more sane Republicans has been assuaged. That is the thing that is so hard to figure out. The present GOP doesn’t seem to represent, at least at the leadership level, any of what used to be their core values- limited gov’t, fiscal responsibility, states rights, avoidance of foreign entanglements like nation-building.
July 15th, 2005 at 7:40 pmThe present Republican Leadership plays to the Bible Thumping hypocrites and Red-neck Bigots who don’t have the sense to recognize the hyprocracy and deviousness of the Bush Administration. They pray and curse the Blacks while DUHbya is cleaning out their collection plates and drinking their moonshine.
July 15th, 2005 at 7:47 pmIf President Bush is having a problem with insects, he should call in the exterminator, Tom Delay.
July 15th, 2005 at 7:49 pmThe Republicans will be the last to recognize that they have become a malignant neoplasm on the body politic.
I, for one, will be glad to see them gone for good.
July 15th, 2005 at 7:54 pm“If you look at what the dictionary says about throes, it can still be a violent period… The point would be that the conflict will be intense, but it’s intense because the GOP shils understand if we’re successful at accomplishing our objective — standing up the moral values of truth and justice in America — that that’s a huge defeat for them. They’ll do everything they can to stop it…. I think the months immediately ahead will be difficult months. I think there will be a lot of deceitful spin tactics, a lot of diversionary maneuvers because I think the right-wing ‘terrorists’ will do everything they can to try to disrupt that process.”
July 15th, 2005 at 8:45 pmAppropos?
July 15th, 2005 at 8:48 pmGeorge needs a little somethin’ somethin’ to take his mind off his troubles.
Like this, for example…
http://www.gcpress.com/gwbush/
July 15th, 2005 at 9:35 pmTo the White House reporters pool:
July 15th, 2005 at 9:42 pmI fart in your general direction.
My Mama always tole me.
The Chimporer ain’t happy. And when the Chimporer ain’t happy, he blames the press.
July 15th, 2005 at 9:45 pmDoes anyone know the precise law that was broken by Mr. Rove?
July 15th, 2005 at 9:45 pmIf Karl was an insect, he would be a cockaaroach.
July 15th, 2005 at 9:51 pmIf Dubya was an insect, he’d be a stinkbug.
If Cheyney was an insect, he’d be a dung-beetle.
No one knows Karla. No one knows if he even broke the law. But a lot of speculation here at thinkparanoid.org.
July 15th, 2005 at 10:19 pmThis is all very ugly. It does not matter if a law was broken. Rational people don’t go for this crap. All this spin is working on my 85 year old next door neighbor. But that is about it. As people grow less fearful of terror-as they are in London-the less they will accept a war for prosperity philosophy.
July 15th, 2005 at 10:40 pmNo more illegal wars based on fear and lies.
No more sociopaths claiming 51% mandates.
To #14 – Cheney a Dung Beetle? No, but close. Actually, slime mold beatle.
http://weblog.physorg.com/news1596.html
July 15th, 2005 at 10:52 pmFeeling a bit defensive, Steed? That’s OK, we understand why. Perhaps you should look into getting some therapy or joining a support group for others suffering from increasing levels of politically-influenced cognitive dissonance?
Sorry, we can’t help you here until you are willing to admit to yourself that you are in need of help.
Take the first step.
July 15th, 2005 at 11:02 pmKR quoted on Billmon 5.15.05 – “I never said when I didn’t know her.”
Hmmm….
I can only imagine that the tightness in the gut on the part of the right is something akin to that on the part of the left upon hearing the words “what the definition of IS is…”
Pucker up!
July 15th, 2005 at 11:14 pmBut a lot of speculation here at thinkparanoid.org
Yes, Steed has already declared Rove not guilty. Many times over.
July 15th, 2005 at 11:14 pmWere it not for those (choose your own noun)s like Laura and Steed I would have been an Opthamologist. They prove the old adage: “There is none so blind as those that will not see.” Considering where their collective head is, maybe I could make some money by selling DUHbya a contact lens for his navel. Then they all could see!
July 15th, 2005 at 11:27 pmI know his pronoun and antecedents don’t agree but he is an imposter anyway. My definition of is is different from President Clinton and the Webster’s Dictionary so please change it to “are” (or change “those” to “he, she, or it.”
July 15th, 2005 at 11:37 pmNo one knows Karla. No one knows if he even broke the law. But a lot of speculation here at thinkparanoid.org.
Steed are you saying that you are no longer suffering from paranoia? Iraq isn’t out to get you? OBL and all the evil Islamofascists no longer want to blow you up and slit your throat, chop off your head and kill you because of your way of life? Good for you, boy! Now if you can just get over your fear of the French….
July 16th, 2005 at 4:52 amDoes anyone know the precise law that was broken by Mr. Rove?
Yes Karla, we do. About now it’s pretty safe to say that the many of the subjects of the investigation may be guilty of conspiracy, perjury and obstruction. Rove, and others also leaked clssified information, in spite of the spin.
July 16th, 2005 at 4:57 amI asked if anyone knows what law Karl Rove broke. Brian replies that it doesn’t matter if a law was broken. CIA replies with vague nonsense. Conspiracy? With whom? To do what? Perjury? With what statement? Obstruction? For doing what? What precise law?
Does anyone know the precise law Rove broke? Or am I wasting my breath asking? Do any of you even understand the question?
July 16th, 2005 at 7:40 amI understand the question. It is probably not important if a law was broken. You seem pretty confident a law was not broken?
July 16th, 2005 at 9:35 amKarla, are you incapable of reading the news yourself?
Do you have any comprehension skills at all.
We’re not your babysitters or your educators.
Go to school, you’re really ignorant.
July 16th, 2005 at 10:06 amHow about this one, Karla? Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
July 16th, 2005 at 10:19 amHere ya go Karla and Steed. If rove broke a law this is it. I took a few minutes to do a google search, pretty useful tool.
421. Protection of identities of certain United States undercover intelligence officers, agents, informants, and sources
Release date: 2005-03-17
(a) Disclosure of information by persons having or having had access to classified information that identifies covert agent Whoever, having or having had authorized access to classified information that identifies a covert agent, intentionally discloses any information identifying such covert agent to any individual not authorized to receive classified information, knowing that the information disclosed so identifies such covert agent and that the United States is taking affirmative measures to conceal such covert agent’s intelligence relationship to the United States, shall be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.
July 16th, 2005 at 10:25 am(b) Disclosure of information by persons who learn identity of covert agents as result of having access to classified information Whoever, as a result of having authorized access to classified information, learns the identify of a covert agent and intentionally discloses any information identifying such covert agent to any individual not authorized to receive classified information, knowing that the information disclosed so identifies such covert agent and that the United States is taking affirmative measures to conceal such covert agent’s intelligence relationship to the United States, shall be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.
(c) Disclosure of information by persons in course of pattern of activities intended to identify and expose covert agents Whoever, in the course of a pattern of activities intended to identify and expose covert agents and with reason to believe that such activities would impair or impede the foreign intelligence activities of the United States, discloses any information that identifies an individual as a covert agent to any individual not authorized to receive classified information, knowing that the information disclosed so identifies such individual and that the United States is taking affirmative measures to conceal such individual’s classified intelligence relationship to the United States, shall be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.
(d) Imposition of consecutive sentences A term of imprisonment imposed under this section shall be consecutive to any other sentence of imprisonment.
I’d charge them a $50 legal fee for that if I were you Krazny.
July 16th, 2005 at 10:40 amLOL don’t think I could get them to pay up =)
July 16th, 2005 at 10:42 amKarla Stout, who seems to know what to ask, (re:#13), take a look at John Dean’s commentary at http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20050715.html
Colin Wilson, in his book on the criminal mind, says that its primary glory is cunning, cutting corners, manipulating others under the guise of lofty abstractions. That is as good a means to understand why KR has been dubbed Dubya’s brain. Addicts are too busy looking for a fix; enablers supply the cunning that provides the fix.
July 16th, 2005 at 11:03 amGreat article Vinilo, at the very least Rove will be convicted of releasing “sensative” or “classified” info and could do a year in jail.
I love findlaw.com. I use it all the time.
July 16th, 2005 at 11:13 amIn the House, Representative Henry A. Waxman of California, the senior
July 16th, 2005 at 12:23 pmDemocrat on the Committee on Government Reform, circulated a memorandum
titled “Karl Rove’s Nondisclosure Agreement” detailing the legal
restrictions against disclosing classified information. The memorandum
asserts that “Mr. Rove was not at liberty to repeat classified information
he may have learned from a reporter.”
You got him on that one Brian. Good bye Security Clearance.
Found this on http://www.democraticunderground.com
Four simple things Rove failed to do…
So… taking the spin to it’s logical conclusion. Rove hears from a reporter that an individual is an undercover CIA operative. At that instant, he was obligated to:
1) Inform the reporter that discussing the identity of a CIA agent may be illegal.
2) Immediately contact the director of the CIA to find out whether the agent is, in fact, undercover.
3) Tell the CIA director that a reporter knows the agent’s undercover status so that the CIA can immediately alert the agent.
4) Turn the name of the reporter who spoke the name over to the CIA for investigation.
Did Rove do any of these? No.
Instead, he called more reporters with the information and violated the law even further.
July 16th, 2005 at 12:55 pmNot all of the evidence posted here is accurate or true. He called even more reporters with the information? Do have that from a credible source? I doubt it.
Hey Karla, were the insults and berating comments posted here convincing evidence? They don’t know the answers to your questions. No one outside the investigation really knows for sure, just more speculation from the paranoid mind. I don’t know why they can’t wait until they hear ALL of the evidence.
July 16th, 2005 at 4:00 pmThere seems to be a general consensus that Rove was calling reporters with the Wilson story, despite the fact that Plame was associateed with the story. Hence the term “fair game”.
July 16th, 2005 at 4:16 pmBut since noone will vouch for the origin of “fair game”, I guess you could say it was all made up by the Democrats. Therefore, by default, you’re correct on all points Steed.
I asked if anyone knows what law Karl Rove broke. Brian replies that it doesn’t matter if a law was broken. CIA replies with vague nonsense. Conspiracy? With whom? To do what? Perjury? With what statement? Obstruction? For doing what? What precise law?
Does anyone know the precise law Rove broke? Or am I wasting my breath asking? Do any of you even understand the question?
Karla, you ignorant twit, you damn well better hope you are not involved in a federal investigation someday, because you will learn the difference between “vague nonsense”, i.e. a trumped up witch hunt of a civil suit manufactured to depose a sitting President, and real trouble, i.e. that which your dear leader and all of his cronies are now in.
July 16th, 2005 at 4:17 pmSteed,
July 16th, 2005 at 4:23 pmWhy do you post on this website? Can you keep it short?
That’s “depose” as in a civil legal proceeding, the person being “deposed” being the deponent giving a deposition, the source of the perjury charge. If it happens to knock a sitting preznit out of office, then I suppose it could have a dual meaning. This is much more serious. No depositions here, this is a criminal matter, not civil, but a Preznit could end up being “deposed”. Man, why bother? These people are idiots. It’s over, Rover. Let them piss and moan all they want. Sit back and enjoy the show. It’s going to be a long, hot summer.
July 16th, 2005 at 4:24 pmOh no, Karla is fake too.
He’s sicker than I thought.
July 16th, 2005 at 5:00 pmKrazny,
US Code Title 50 Sec 421.
Krazny, You have to read the whole paragraph. You can’t just stop after your mind fills up.
This phrase “and that the United States is taking affirmative measures to conceal such covert agent’s intelligence relationship to the United States” stops you cold in your tracks.
Rove gets off scott free.
July 16th, 2005 at 8:22 pmI am not really sure what your going on about Karla but thanks for the herring. You asked what crime Karl had broken. I simply located text on the relevant information and cut and pasted that into my post. Your right in that there is a lot of legal mumbo in there, why not take the I didn’t realize she was a protected agent approach, or I didn’t really say here name, etc. The relevant information is there, and the possibility that he may have broken another law see post #32 and follow the links. Either way Karl Rove is mostly interested in keeping power, and does not care who gets in his way.
I would ask that you keep you snide personal attacks to yourself. I do my best to not sling insults as debate, and would appreciate it if you would do the same.
July 16th, 2005 at 8:51 pmI’m sure Mr. Fitzgerald will reveal what crimes were committed when he feels it’s relevant to go public.
In the meantime, chew on this. Karl Rove thinks he did something wrong, and so does President Bush.
Otherwise, why wouldn’t they have revealed that Mr. Rove was the source for *oops, accidentally* outing an undercover CIA agent.
It’s the coverup of a two-”bit burglary”that bit the Nixonian ass just over 30 years ago. Has the bug up your butt been there as long?
July 16th, 2005 at 10:28 pmI am unsure why that statement would stop me “cold in my tracks” as it were. Much of the current debate has been focused on Plame’s status with the CIA. Currently there is alot of conflicting information on her status. Most of which I am guessing is inaccurate. I don’t believe that this scandal alone will bring down the Bush admin, however I hope to vindicated in the next election when the republicans are sent running from office.
July 16th, 2005 at 10:38 pmKarla,
Why do you think the CIA wanted the investigation of the outing of Mrs. Wilson’s ID? Someone blew her cover, that’s why. Notice how that didn’t stop me, and apparently hasn’t stopped Fitz in either of our tracks?
This train just keeps on rollin’…
July 16th, 2005 at 11:14 pmKrazny I asked for the specific law Rove broke. You offered a law in the US code which he clearly did not break. Not even close
I will say you seem to be the only one who understood I was asking for a law. Anyone else even udnerstand the question? Skid seems to want to offer vague nonsense as a substitute for a law. Anyone here have a clue? What law did Rove break?
What law?
July 17th, 2005 at 12:12 amDid you not bother reading the Dean article, or is it simply that you lack reading comprehension skills?
It’s not so much that I care, but I’m trying to figure out why you’re such a one-trick pony…
July 17th, 2005 at 1:41 amKarla,
there is two possible laws that Rove broke, one is the law that I placed into the above post. I know that you refuse to accept that he could have broken that one and that is fine. the other law is referenced in the article that was linked above, however I shall place it hear for you to read,
This law essentially states that using government information for personal purposes is illegal. The Article linked to this law is a good read. It is about a DEA agent who felt that a rich british citizen was linked to a money laundering investigation. He leaked the name of the British citizen to the press. The information was traced back to him and he was tried and convicted under this law.
Granted this is not as much of a breach as the first law posted, but to see Rove lose his clearance and position would make me very happy.
Section 641. Public money, property or records
Whoever embezzles, steals, purloins, or knowingly converts to hisuse or the use of another, or without authority, sells, conveys ordisposes of any record, voucher, money, or thing of value of the United States or of any department or agency thereof, or any property made or being made under contract for the United States or any department or agency thereof; or Whoever receives, conceals, or retains the same with intent to convert it to his use or gain, knowing it to have been embezzled,stolen, purloined or converted -Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten
July 17th, 2005 at 11:37 amyears, or both; but if the value of such property does not exceed the sum of $1,000, he shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both.
The word ”value” means face, par, or market value, or cost
price, either wholesale or retail, whichever is greater.
Karla, I don’t know laws, but I know right and wrong.
July 17th, 2005 at 2:00 pmKrazny,
Again, your first law was clearly not broken. (USC 50-421)
Even the Dem talking heads are not claiming he broke it. Just you & a few thousand other uneducated armchair lawyers.
Your reference to 641 is fine, as far as defining that law. But in what way did Karl Rove break it?
Do you not understand what I’m asking? I’m not acking you to randomly use google to copy & paste irrelevant code. I’m asking you, Krazny, what law did Karl Rove break?
Do you understand my question?
July 17th, 2005 at 2:02 pmI don’t think Krazny knows what you are asking, Karla. Ask him ten more times and try rephrasing it each time. Maybe it will soak into his thick skull. He thinks like the other million young liberals – put the info into google and then copy & paste a bunch of gibberish and call it an answer. Must be all that wonderful public education he got.
July 17th, 2005 at 4:57 pmKarla, you’ll have to wait for the indictments to find out which laws will be applied. Meanwhile, we are talking about exposing a covert non-proliferation team. You were taking the side that says giving our enemies that kind of information is perfectly okay. The liberals are arguing the contrary.
Please, continue.
Susan, sticks and stones. I guess you think like a million other Republican Youth. Ignore the basic facts, demand the most arcane details have not been ironed out 100% and declare victory. For an encore you might go on to abolish public education.
If you want to argue whether disclosing the identity of covert agents to our enemies in a time of war is technically illegal, go right ahead. You won’t find many takers here, but you have one very eager taker in the Justice Department, and he is working as we speak.
And after all the post-election Republican gloating we had to listen to, I plan to enjoy Rove’s fall.
July 17th, 2005 at 5:07 pm“Thanks. My fears that there are no more sane Republicans has been assuaged. That is the thing that is so hard to figure out.”
What about VOTE-FRAUD and a MEDIA-COUP (including by prominent ‘pollsters’) don’t you understand?
Thirty states (at least) still have NO election recount rights.
Ask YOUR representatives: What will it take until we get our voting rights back?
And how can we find enough chairs for the tens of millions of R voters who are flocking to our ’shores’?
Give us your tired, your poor, your huddled R masses, yearning to be free…
July 18th, 2005 at 3:44 amKarla is asking for the exact text of a law that Karl Rove broke.
I can’t speak for the rest of the people here, but I am not part of the investigation. I have not heard any of the evidence presented in private. I do not know what the investigators are currently looking at. I am not a lawyer. I am not a paralegal. I do not want to cite the exact parts of US code that MIGHT be relevant as I am not a lawyer, a paralegal or a psychic.
So far, from what I have seen, Karl Rove may be guilty of disclosing the identity of an undercover officer of a US Intelligence Agency. He might be guilty of leaking Government information for his personal gain. He might be guilty of perjury. He might be facing a conspiracy charge in relation with any of the above.
Given that the CIA actually requested this investigation then it seems likely that some harm was done to the CIA by the public disclosure of this information. It might be that they are more concerned about the leaking of the name of a cover company than by the leaking of the name of an agent or former agent. Unless each agent has a different cover company the leaking of that company could compromise multiple agents.
Karl Rove has been named as a subject of this investigation and allegedly at least confirmed that Valerie Plame was a CIA employee, so it seems likely that he might be charged with a crime in relation to this investigation.
However, as I stated earlier I have not seen all of the testimony, all of the evidence, nor do I know what the Fizgerald is thinking.
Of Course you can repeat your exact question “WHAT LAW DID KARL ROVE BREAK?” until you are blue in the face. I have made some suggestions above, but without all of the evidence and testimony I don’t know. NOR DO YOU. But just because we don’t know the answer yet, and even when the charges are made public we may not know what law he broke, doesn’t mean that he is innocent either. He certainly gives the impression of knowing he was doing something wrong, otherwise he surely would have talked openly rather than on “double super secret background”.
And in case it hasn’t got through to you yet…
NO, I DON’T KNOW FOR CERTAIN WHAT LAWS KARL ROVE BROKE.
Thank you, and good night.
Z.
July 18th, 2005 at 11:17 amBack to the insect thing — Didn’t Condi say at some point that Georgie didn’t have time to be swatting at flies? Guess he has time now…
July 18th, 2005 at 12:49 pmKarla-
again please try not to lead with a snide comment. I do revert to name calling, and its very uncool for you to do the same thing.
To begin with I found the relevant legal text you asked for on what laws karl Rove may have broken and have given you the information that you requested. I do not know if I can spell it out more clearly. zwack is correct in that only the eventual charges if any will spell out what laws Rove has broken.
Simply put the second law I referenced:
karl used classified information for personal gain. in this case information to attempt to descredit Joe Wilson. His actions in this case are punishable by up to a year and prison and a fine.
July 18th, 2005 at 2:32 pmThat spells “espionage” for those of you playing along at home.
Just as surely as Aldrich Ames or John Walker betrayed classified information, and outed undercover agencies for personal gain, that’s what Karl Rove did.
For them it was about money. For Karl it was about personal power, but the underlying motivation and actions were the same.
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