Changing the Subject Tonight at 9
Changing the Subject Tonight at 9
The AP is reporting:
President Bush will announce his nominee to the Supreme Court at 9 p.m. EDT, a senior administration official said.
This will be their attempt to change the message, as one Republican strategist has noted:
A Republican strategist with close ties to the White House said Bush could announce his pick as early as Tuesday.
The strategist said the timing of an announcement had been moved up in part to deflect attention away from a CIA leak controversy that has engulfed Bush’s top political adviser, Karl Rove.
“It will happen any day,” the strategist said of the Supreme Court decision, adding that the aim is to “change the subject” from Rove.
UPDATE: Bloomberg reports, “Bush accelerated his search for a Supreme Court nominee in part because of special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald’s investigation into the leak of a CIA agent’s name, according to Republicans familiar with administration strategy.”
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Pass the koolaid
July 19th, 2005 at 1:15 pmThat’s fine. When the prosecutor issues his indictments the leak scandal will again take center stage. Then the reporters at the “McClellan pinata party” will start whacking anything that moves, including anyone who has stood up for Rove.
July 19th, 2005 at 1:22 pmWith rumors swirling that President Bush has selected Edith Brown Clement of the conservative 5th Circuit Court of Appeals to be replace Sandra Day O’Connor on the Supreme Court, Democrats can get to down the business of planning their response.
Their response should be to vote to confirm Judge Clement.
Why? In a nutshell, Democrats should grudgingly accept Clement because she simply does not cross the threshhold of unsuitability…
For more, see:
“Supreme Limitations for Democrats”
July 19th, 2005 at 1:28 pmLooks like liberals will get their way. Clement would have been far from my first choice and their will be conservatives who echo this. Bush should have laid down the marker with Janice Rogers Brown.
Unfortunately, there will be little controversy with Clement and that will help liberals keep this Rove sham alive. Score one for those who hate America.
July 19th, 2005 at 1:31 pmThe question is, will Rove’s pick (I mean Bush’s pick) be influenced by Rovegate? You know, more controversial pick = bigger distraction from Rovegate?
Actually, Fitzgerald might be able to use some distraction. No big deal. What we REALLY need to continue pushing for is an inquiry into the Downing Street Minutes.
July 19th, 2005 at 1:32 pmNortheast you talk of how our hatred blinds us. Yet you are the one who calls anyone who disagrees with the Bush admin traitors, advocates rounding us up and putting us in jail, and says we hate America. I ask you who is blinded by hatred here?
July 19th, 2005 at 1:37 pmSo Nor’easter, if a Republican majority congress confirms Clement, you’re saying that America-haters win? Doesn’t say much for the Repubs, eh?
July 19th, 2005 at 1:38 pmDon’t worry Northeast — all of the hysterical screaming over Rovegate in lefty-blog-world will come back to haunt them after Rove is exonerated. The rest of the world will just shake their collective head at the crazies and just keep stepping away from Democratic party.
July 19th, 2005 at 1:44 pmUmm don’t know if you have checked lately but the rest of world is with democrats. Anyone have polls on the opinion of Bush in europe and around the world? Given everything the only way Rove will be exonerated is when bush pardons him.
July 19th, 2005 at 1:45 pm#7 - I use the hate America swipe liberally these days. But, no Clement is less conservative than most of us would like, but her thin paper trail will have everyone a little nervous.
I will say this, if she rules on the side of liberals next term, you folks might get your wish and be able to impeach the President. Conservatives have the most influence of any other ideology in this country right now. At least 40%, I would argue. If we don’t like Bush’s picks and stay home next election, it could be a disaster for the GOP. AND frankly, that is the only way you leftists could get back in power.
July 19th, 2005 at 1:46 pm#9 - sorry, the French can’t vote.
July 19th, 2005 at 1:47 pmyou still haven’t answered the question ND sure you use the “hate america” swipe liberally but who is blinded by hate? you or me?
to post #8 CC
here is the world opinion of bush before the election, I realize this is a bit out of date, but I am sure the numbers have not improved.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3640754.stm
July 19th, 2005 at 1:49 pmKranzy - I hate what you people have done to this country. YOu have so lowered the political discourse that yes, I believe some of you hate America.
As for what the world thinks of Bush, they were big Reagan fans either just to clue you in. Means NOTHING in American politics and if it does, it helps Republicans, not self hating Americans.
July 19th, 2005 at 1:51 pmConcerned Conservative, what part of the Rove/Plame story don’t you understand? What he and Libby did was, according to Bush 41, treasonous and despicable. It’s also against the law. What do you have against CIA agents working on WMD issues? Seems extremely unpatriotic to me…but you probably can’t help it, you’ve been brainwashed.
July 19th, 2005 at 1:51 pm#9 - sorry, the French can’t vote.
Comment by The Northeast Dilemma  July 19, 2005 @ 1:47 pm
Then he should have said america is with us, however given recent poll numbers that is not true either.
July 19th, 2005 at 1:51 pmOK Kraz — I should have said ‘the rest of the US’. Based on the evidence (last election) I’d say your message is getting through loud and clear to the American voters. The Dem problem is not that your message isn’t getting out there — it’s that it is and Americans don’t like it.
P.S. I’m sure that Europe doesn’t like Bush — which is fine with me. They are so screwed up I’d be more worried if they liked him.
July 19th, 2005 at 1:52 pmWhy am I a self hating American?
because I don’t agree with lies, corruption, torture, and illegal wars for money? I don’t hate my country I believe that we can do better.
July 19th, 2005 at 1:54 pmJay — I’m just saying let it play out. If Rove and Libby did something illegal then they will pay.
I have nothing against the CIA working on WMD issues. I’m all for it.
I’m not sure how Plame’s identity getting out changed her ability to do her WMD research desk job in Langley though…
July 19th, 2005 at 1:57 pmDilemma, Karl Rove has single-handedly lowered the political discourse in this country, that’s his strength. Do your homework on what he did to McCain, Max Cleland, Ann Richards and the Swift Boat Liars. Nobody has fvcked up the political process like the Repuglicans. Get your story straight!
July 19th, 2005 at 1:58 pm[…] Supreme Court Fun at 9pm. Reuters, via Shakespere’s sister says it will be Edith Clement Brown. Bad, for sure, but not as bad as, for example, this guy […]
July 19th, 2005 at 2:01 pm[…] Supreme Court Fun at 9pm. Reuters, via Shakespere’s sister says it will be Edith Clement Brown. Bad, for sure, but not as bad as, for example, this guy […]
July 19th, 2005 at 2:01 pmCC,
It’s already played out and quite frankly we knew that someone had committed treason by outing Plame a long time ago (and everyone agreed not only that it was treason but that it was in retaliation for Wilson’s NYT article. All we needed was a name (or two….Scooter) and now we have them. The rest is going to be political hardball, legal wrangling and bullshit. They did the deed and they should be imprisoned for it. Right next to the entire Bush adminstration for war crimes…but that’s another storyline.
July 19th, 2005 at 2:02 pmKraz — you can give up the self-hate! It’s really easy — you just need to become part of the truth-based community. You know, the place where fabricated stories about torture at GITMO are not believed. And mantras like ‘illegal war for money’ are seen to be the silly claims they are.
Come on over, it’s not a bad place.
July 19th, 2005 at 2:03 pmokay so the FBI fabricated those stories about torture at Gitmo?
July 19th, 2005 at 2:04 pmJay, I read that Plame was originally outed in the mid 90’s by the Soviets and then again by Cuba in the late 90’s. That is why she was no longer covert and was doing a desk job.
July 19th, 2005 at 2:05 pm” to do her WMD research desk job in Langley though”
you have no idea what her true status was and neither do i.
to minimize this by assuming her covert duties were well in the past or negligble is to base a conclusion on an assumption you can’t prove.
the best we can infer is the CIA thought a crime had been committed. we shall see.
July 19th, 2005 at 2:06 pmStill unclear about the self hate. Care to try to elaborate or explain in a rational way?
July 19th, 2005 at 2:06 pmPutting a thong on somebody’s head is not torture.
July 19th, 2005 at 2:08 pmif thats what your into I suppose not.
July 19th, 2005 at 2:08 pmjtk,
Yes we shall see when the prosecutor completes his job. If Rove and Libby are guilty they should not only lose their jobs but they should go to jail.
July 19th, 2005 at 2:10 pmI’m more into taking thongs off
July 19th, 2005 at 2:11 pmLook! Over There! A Supreme Court Nominee!
Think Progress confirms that the distraction strategy is in full force, also announces a timely new site dedicated solely to Supreme Court coverage.
* iddybud says “stifle it” to either Edith when it comes to their joining the Supreme Court.
July 19th, 2005 at 2:12 pmcmon answer the question don’t dodge it.
July 19th, 2005 at 2:12 pmCC, show me the document that proves that Plame was “outed” at any point prior to the Niger uranium story. I think you’re completely full of shi*.
Having a thong placed on your head may not be torture (in fact depending on the circumstances it might be downright fun) but having a snarling German Shepherd drooling on your ballbag is probably getting close, as is stacking naked prisoners pyramid style and shoving bloody female panties in someones face. Sounds like a frat prank…just like the drug-addled Limbaugh said it was….ugh!
July 19th, 2005 at 2:16 pmDon’t worry Northeast  all of the hysterical screaming over Rovegate in lefty-blog-world will come back to haunt them after Rove is exonerated. The rest of the world will just shake their collective head at the crazies and just keep stepping away from Democratic party.
Comment by Confined Conservative  July 19, 2005
Delusional.
July 19th, 2005 at 2:16 pmKraz, re. the self-hate — or more accurately the hate America thing…
My point is that creating a false reality like ‘illegal war for oil (or money)’ is not only irrational but it seems to drive some people insane with rage. I have one friend who hates Bush and co. so much that he thinks Rove is more evil than the terrorists. Seriously. This friend believes all kinds of things about the adminstration that really can’t be proven with facts.
So I just wanted to invite over to our place, where facts take a little more precedence than hyperbole.
July 19th, 2005 at 2:18 pmJay, I read that Plame was originally outed in the mid 90’s by the Soviets and then again by Cuba in the late 90’s. That is why she was no longer covert and was doing a desk job.
Comment by Confined Conservative  July 19, 2005
Delusional, dishonest, dunce.
July 19th, 2005 at 2:19 pmMy point is that creating a false reality like ‘illegal war for oil (or money)’ is not only irrational but it seems to drive some people insane with rage. I have one friend who hates Bush and co. so much that he thinks Rove is more evil than the terrorists. Seriously. This friend believes all kinds of things about the adminstration that really can’t be proven with facts.
Imaginary friends (the only kind he has) don’t count.
July 19th, 2005 at 2:21 pmJay, I’ll try and find that source — I read it a couple days ago…
I agree that there probably was some stuff at Abu Ghraib that could be called torture. But making claims that it was endemic or even a policy of the administration is absurd.
July 19th, 2005 at 2:22 pmI agree that there probably was some stuff at Abu Ghraib that could be called torture. But making claims that it was endemic or even a policy of the administration is absurd.
Yes, blame the troops. Moron.
July 19th, 2005 at 2:28 pmJay, found it. These are excerpts from an article by Andrew McCarthy of National Review. I tried to strip out the ‘wingnut’ language for you guys…
“Just four months ago, 36 news organizations confederated to file a friend-of-the-court brief in the U.S. Court of Appeals in Washington.
The media’s brief, fairly short and extremely illuminating, is available here (sorry link didn’t come along). The Times, which is currently spearheading the campaign against Rove and the Bush administration, encouraged its submission. It was joined by a “who’s who” of the current Plame stokers, including ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, AP, Newsweek, Reuters America, the Washington Post, the Tribune Company (which publishes the Los Angeles Times and the Baltimore Sun, among other papers), and the White House Correspondents (the organization which represents the White House press corps in its dealings with the executive branch).
The thrust of the brief was that reporters should not be held in contempt or forced to reveal their sources in the Plame investigation. Why? Because, the media organizations confidently asserted, no crime had been committed.
As the media alleged to the judges (in Footnote 7, page 8, of their brief), Plame’s identity as an undercover CIA officer was first disclosed to Russia in the mid-1990s by a spy in Moscow.
Of greater moment to the criminal investigation is the second disclosure urged by the media organizations on the court. They don’t place a precise date on this one, but inform the judges that it was “more recent” than the Russian outing but “prior to Novak’s publication.”
The press informs the judges that the CIA itself “inadvertently” compromised Plame by not taking appropriate measures to safeguard classified documents that the Agency routed to the Swiss embassy in Havana.”
Full article is here: http://www.nationalreview.com/ mccarthy/ mccarthy200507180801.asp
July 19th, 2005 at 2:33 pmRe “Changing the Subject” (There was a blog entry about that, a few dozen comments back.)
Hey, at least Bush is doing it by doing a Constitutionally-mandated part of his job. (I was starting to wonder if he might take his anti-FDR role to extremes by attempting to “unpack” the SCOTUS by not appointing anybody.)
So at least he respects us enough not to, say, make up a lie about crack bought across the street from the White House or about medical students held “hostage” on some small Atlantic island. This is actually a valid subject for him to talk about.
That said, I suspect the press will still be able to pay attention to Plame/Rove, since I agree with the notion that what got them to pay attention was learning that Scottie had blatantly lied to THEM. IE: It’s personal.
July 19th, 2005 at 2:37 pmI have a hard time believing the “official” war reasoning. To begin with rational has changed repeatedly. Historicaly most wars have been fought over natural resources, regardless of the stated reasons for the conflict. When you add in that the company Dick Cheney used to work for is bilking the government for billions of dollars in no-bid contracts its starts smelling a bit fishy.
As for the hate America thing. I don’t like the bush administration but lets make one thing very clear:
George W. Bush is NOT America.
it looks to me like your friend does not hates george not America.
July 19th, 2005 at 2:40 pmHey Look, A Wingnut!
‘Delusional, dishonest, dunce’
‘Imaginary friends (the only kind he has) don’t count’
‘Yes, blame the troops. Moron’
Can’t you come up with anything more original than these lame comebacks?
July 19th, 2005 at 2:40 pmbah got it wrong
meant to say your friend hates George not America
July 19th, 2005 at 2:41 pmgiven that the national review was full of praise for W’s budget about how it hearkened back to true conservatism (despite not inlcuding money for the Iraq war, and I believe Medicaid) I would not trust anything they write.
July 19th, 2005 at 2:44 pmDon’t worry about it Kraz — typing is not strong suit either…
And I believe you are right about my friend. Not many really hate America — just the current version…
July 19th, 2005 at 2:44 pmSeems if I wanted to take the heat off, and I were George Bush, I would be telling the public that Plame was not classified subject.
July 19th, 2005 at 2:44 pmKrazny — don’t believe the National Review, believe the legal brief filed by a consortium of the major news outlets that the article referenced. Unfortunately, you’ll have to go to the NRO site to get the link to the brief itself. Hopefully your PC won’t melt down…
July 19th, 2005 at 2:46 pmOnly Muslim terrorists truly hate America. Many people hate Bush.
July 19th, 2005 at 2:47 pmmaybe I missedm it CC but it does not appear that the NR links there article to the brief.
July 19th, 2005 at 2:54 pmconcerned
just a rehash of some crap from the moonie newsletter:
http://www.washtimes.com/ national/ 20040722-115439-4033r.htm
If memeory serves me, the guy who wrote this for the moonies published a “Russian army moves Saddams WMD” article the week before last November’s elections.
I have not read the whole 40 page pdf, but a reference to this wtimes article and the suggestion that the court could explore this to see if it were true is all I could find.
Better luck next time.
July 19th, 2005 at 3:01 pmI have been following Wilson’s story for at least a year now, and it is funny to hear the bush supporters try to dodge and divert this issue. First Wilson was never really hired by the CIA, then he is a phoney, then he is a decorated former ambassador who’s report helped the case for war. Gee, are we pulling out the “best defense is a good offense” thing? oh my gawd that is sooo pathetic.
i know it sux when your hero ends up being an idiot, but now he’s going to be exposed as a crook. OUCH, dass gotta hurt the old pride, eh?
July 19th, 2005 at 3:01 pmKrazny, the link in the NR article is about halfway down, 2nd paragraph under the subhead “THE MEDIA GOES TO COURT … AND SINGS A DIFFERENT TUNE”
July 19th, 2005 at 3:01 pm‘Delusional, dishonest, dunce’
‘Imaginary friends (the only kind he has) don’t count’
‘Yes, blame the troops. Moron’
Can’t you come up with anything more original than these lame comebacks?
Confused Conservative,
They are only “lame” from your limited point of view. But you at least don’t argue with the factual basis for the comments. How could you? BTW, It seems the WSJ doesn’t agree with you regarding Plame. But like I said, you are full of shit.
Wall Street Journal enters Rove fray: State Dept. memo made clear info ’shouldn’t be shared’
http://rawstory.com/ news/ 2005/ Wall_Street_Journal_enters_Rove_fray_State_Dept._memo_made_clear_info_shouldnt_be_shar_0719.html
July 19th, 2005 at 3:01 pmCC,
To be fair, I won’t dismiss the National Review as a think-tank funded, sham of partisan hackery, I’ll only say this:
If there was any credibility to this story, I wouldn’t be hearing about it for the first time from you. In other words, it’s not credible. The mainstream media bends over backwards to pardon, excuse, cover-up Bush admin frauds and lies…if there was something to that story, it’d be plastered everywhere. Not to mention the fact that they may be playing semantic games here (sort of like I identified her but I never used her name). People knew who Plame was, they just didn’t know that she was a CIA agent working deep cover on WMD-related issues. I think Rove is done.
July 19th, 2005 at 3:03 pmConfused Conservative,
This is what an excerpt of anything from anyone at NRO looks like with the wingnut language removed…….
Open quotes
close quotes
July 19th, 2005 at 3:05 pmConfused Conservative,
Go peddle your crap someplace else. The only meaningful dialogue done with the likes of you is conducted with a baseball bat.
July 19th, 2005 at 3:07 pmMango, I’m confused. I thought I was a wingnut not a moonie…
Anyway, I just thought it was funny that the media filed a legal brief arguing that no crime was committed — and then the same media keep playing up the Rove controversy.
July 19th, 2005 at 3:09 pmLook, A Wingnut!,
Anytime pal! I’ll bring my hockey stick!
July 19th, 2005 at 3:12 pmMango, I’m confused. I thought I was a wingnut not a moonie…
Same difference
July 19th, 2005 at 3:12 pmI think that the media in question is trying to use semantic games to get out trouble. not a huge suprise. I believe the point you are trying to argue CC is the media groups in question are saying there is no crime while linking Rove to a bigger crime.
However one point I would like to make is the journalists in question did not sign top secret clearance agreements.
July 19th, 2005 at 3:13 pmMeaningful dialogue with Confused Conservatives:
providers. Their findings include:
Abortion Provider Violence Statistics:
7 Murders
17 Attempted Murders
41 Bombings
168 Arsons
82 Attempted Bombings/Arsons
373 Invasions
1048 Incidences of Vandalism
591 Incidences of Trespassing
125 Incidences of Assault and Battery
357 Death Threats
3 Kidnappings
76 Incidences of Burglary
Abortion Provider Disruption Statistics:
9790 Incidences of Hate Mail/Calls
578 Bomb Threats
68886 Incidences of Picketing
Abortion Provider Clinic Blockades:
686 Blockades
July 19th, 2005 at 3:14 pm33830 Arrests
cc
Washington Times is owned by the Rev. Moon. Was not calling you a name. But you should know where your news is coming from and what you are posting.
The lawyers involved in this submission seem to be throwing in everything but the kitchen sink in the hope that somthing will stick. If you read what this “prior leak” theory is based on it is one unsubstantiated story in a pro-Bush newspaper owned by a cult, run by one of Newt’s former staffers.
Always consider the source.
July 19th, 2005 at 3:15 pmJay,
You can dismiss NR as partisan, but 36 of the biggest media groups?
I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that the only information you guys are willing to take in is stuff that confirms your preconceived notions.
July 19th, 2005 at 3:16 pm“I hate what you people have done to this country. YOu have so lowered the political discourse that yes, I believe some of you hate America. ”
July 19th, 2005 at 3:17 pmYou know what I hate more than anything:
1. Getting lied to about going to a war taht is nothing more than a vendetta war
2. All this crap about Christian persecution that doesn’t exist
3. Crowing about “freedom” and then deciding who can marry who.
4. Trying to throw out the constitution and make this nation a theocracy.
Kinda looks like terrorism to me, and we all know how YOU would deal with terrorism, don’t we?
July 19th, 2005 at 3:17 pmMango, are you saying that the legal brief uses the Wash Times article as its main source of its argument? If so, I think you may have a point on how reliable the information is. I did not read the whole brief (wasn’t brief enough for me).
July 19th, 2005 at 3:18 pmNRO, Washington Times … nobody here reads it, unless to poke fun at it. Would you like some links? Or should we just go on laughing at you?
July 19th, 2005 at 3:19 pm“I hate what you people have done to this country. YOu have so lowered the political discourse that yes, I believe some of you hate America. �
You know what I hate more than anything:
1. Getting lied to about going to a war taht is nothing more than a vendetta war
2. All this crap about Christian persecution that doesn’t exist
3. Crowing about “freedom� and then deciding who can marry who.
4. Trying to throw out the constitution and make this nation a theocracy.
Agreed. We have American hating terrorists in our midst. Confused Conservative is one of them.
July 19th, 2005 at 3:21 pmLook,
Just FYI I am pro-abortion and agree that the violence you referenced is terrorism.
July 19th, 2005 at 3:22 pmConfused Conservative = traitorous bastard. I hope you get what’s coming to you. What you have brought on yourself.
July 19th, 2005 at 3:22 pmcc
that’s exactly what I am saying
Go to page 31 of the pdf (also see footnote # 7).
July 19th, 2005 at 3:23 pmThis issue is a flyer only. They actually ask the court to substantiate it.
Look,
Just FYI I am pro-abortion and agree that the violence you referenced is terrorism.
Comment by Concerned Conservative  July 19, 2005 @ 3:22 pm
I don’t care. I’m not pro-abortion. I think you are a treasonous POS, and I hope you like what’s coming to you.
July 19th, 2005 at 3:26 pmLook,
You really should try and get a broader perspective than the lefty-blog echo chamber is providing you. Anybody who would call me an American-hating terrorist without even knowing anything about me needs to add a little balance to their information diet.
Or at least take a pill.
July 19th, 2005 at 3:26 pmmango,
July 19th, 2005 at 3:28 pmcan you provide the url.
Thanks for the clarification Mango. Sounds less reliable than I thought at first. Now I really think we just need to wait and see.
July 19th, 2005 at 3:28 pmSadly wingnut is often typical of the right wing posters we get here, even though he is left wing
July 19th, 2005 at 3:28 pmWhy is it that EVERY thread on Think Progress eventually goes down the same trail, of trading insults instead of viewpoints?
July 19th, 2005 at 3:29 pmWe liberals have deep angry feelings about these issues. Conservatives tend to use our response to derail us from constructive dialogue. THIS IS THEIR PLAN!!!
So let’s try to come up with an all-purpose phrase to whack them with when they try to change the subject.
Apologies to the (very few) conservatives on this site who offer their viewpoints without degrading the discourse - I don’t mean to lump you in with the other jerks who insist that because we are in dissent we must be crazy traitors. Wouldn’t it be great if they would listen for a change? They give you guys a bad name!
And remember, the worm can always turn! the whole administration could be found to be as guilty as we liberals (let’s wear the name proudly!) know them to be!
Look! A Wingnut!,
This CC guy is no wingnut, he seems more like a kid who listens to too much talk radio. The wingnuts never back down and they never concede an argument.
July 19th, 2005 at 3:30 pmDefend Bush = Traitor. That’s the bottom line.
July 19th, 2005 at 3:32 pmJay, I wish I was still a kid!
July 19th, 2005 at 3:32 pmJay
not sure which url you want
NR url is in #41, just hyperlink from “here” about half way down for the pdf
WTimes url is in #52
July 19th, 2005 at 3:33 pmI suppose the insane 25% will be watching the criminal tonight.
The rest of us will not.
Bushie’s ratings will slide downward again like they always do.
July 19th, 2005 at 3:34 pmUnless, of course, you do so as defense counsel in the course of a criminal prosecution, then it’s your job, and it’s your duty, under the constitution.
July 19th, 2005 at 3:34 pmcc
we probably disagree on alot, but thanks for keeping an open mind
see ya
July 19th, 2005 at 3:35 pm25,000 Iraqi civilians have died since the US invasion, so Bush is also a murderer, as well as a traitor.
July 19th, 2005 at 3:37 pmSara, it ends up going down the same path because liberals’ ‘deep angry feelings’ boil over when a conservative tries to make a point. The end result is too often a series of insults hurled at the conservative — even if that person is trying to be reasonable.
July 19th, 2005 at 3:38 pmWhy is it that EVERY thread on Think Progress
eventually goes down the same trail, of trading
insults instead of viewpoints?
I’d say it’s true of most online venues, most notably usenet. And the tactics you ascribe to Conservatives are attributed to the various other groups other people complain about in those venues.
Me, I think it’s all to do with the structure of the medium. In face-to-face life, somebody would have stomped out, or punched somebody else out or started everybody singing. IE: The pressure would escape in some not-quite-on-topic manner.
Maybe some enterprising programmer will come up with a way that blog commenters can invoke a GET A ROOM, YOU GUYS! decree and make it stick. (And the arguers would be shunted off to a room together.)
July 19th, 2005 at 3:39 pmsee ya Mango
July 19th, 2005 at 3:39 pmHorseshit! This is Rovian politics turned against you. Like it? It works, don’t it? Until it blows up in your face. But for now, it’s in their face. Keep it there awhile longer. If Kerry was a traitor, and I sure heard that a bunch. So is Bush. Turnabout is fairplay and all…
July 19th, 2005 at 3:41 pmI don’t believe that CC has ever stated that Kerry was traitor in his opinion. You are ascribing attributes to hinm that other posters have been guilty of. Read his posts before you start with the verbal attacks.
July 19th, 2005 at 3:44 pm“I hate what you people have done to this country. YOu have so lowered the political discourse that yes, I believe some of you hate America. �
You know what I hate more than anything:
1. Getting lied to about going to a war taht is nothing more than a vendetta war
2. All this crap about Christian persecution that doesn’t exist
3. Crowing about “freedom� and then deciding who can marry who.
4. Trying to throw out the constitution and make this nation a theocracy.
Comment by LwordLover  July 19, 2005 @ 3:17 pm
I used to like civil discourse, too. Until they decided it wasn’t the quick way to acheive power. And if it’s too rough for you, just let them stay in power, or turn it against them. You may not get a second chance. Sad as it is, hate works.
July 19th, 2005 at 3:45 pmKerry a traitor? Nah. I think he exaggerated both his record and the amount of random civilian killing that went on in Vietnam, but I wouldn’t say he was a traitor.
Thanks for the defense Kraz
July 19th, 2005 at 3:52 pmI still like civil discourse, but I tend not to expect it in places where third person plural pronouns are put in italics with the expectation that those agreement will all nod knowingly.
Happily for me, I love a good flame war, too.
July 19th, 2005 at 3:57 pmNo problem I would prefer civil discourse to name calling.
July 19th, 2005 at 3:58 pm(Damn. That should have an “in” between “those” and “agreement.”)
July 19th, 2005 at 3:58 pmConcerned Conservative said..”Sara, it ends up going down the same path because liberals’ ‘deep angry feelings’ boil over when a conservative tries to make a point.”
Funny how it would know how things end up going when it acts as if this were its first visit to thinkprogress.
Yep, Buckshot has more and more personalities every day.
July 19th, 2005 at 4:00 pmI disagree that we are talking to buckshot, CC would actually conceed a point.
July 19th, 2005 at 4:04 pmJJ,
I’m not sure whether it is the anonymity of the medium that promotes uncivil discourse, or whether is just pent up anger that now has a place to go. Whatever, it seems to be angrier over here on the left than on the right.
I liked your ‘Get a Room’ idea.
July 19th, 2005 at 4:04 pmI think it is because it is possible to write an angry rant with no fear of reprisal.
July 19th, 2005 at 4:07 pmSusan, actually this is my first time here, but I have gone to similar sites such as Daily Kos.
I know not of this Buckshot you refer to, but I’m getting the feeling that it’s not good to be confused with him or her.
July 19th, 2005 at 4:08 pmIt looks like BushCo is possibly making a peace offering with this hinted canidate, though it should be inspected in case of being a trojan horse. Either way, Plame/RoveGate will not go away until Fitz says it is done.
Face it, your false idols of the GOP/RNC/BushCo cabal used you and sold you out, banking on the idea that you will follow them pseudo-religiously over the threshold. Look at what they think you are ignorant enough to believe.
Look at it.
July 19th, 2005 at 4:13 pmSkid, you got me. I actually signed an agreement with Bushco to follow them blindly and to keep myself deluded about all the lies and illegal activities they have been perpetrating. Now I’m stuck because I’m legally bound to honor the contract. Wait, do I have to honor a contract with a criminal or am I off the hook?
July 19th, 2005 at 4:20 pmNo contract, simply freedom of choice. You chose, now reap what you have sown.
July 19th, 2005 at 4:30 pmThat’s why you are here, isn’t it?
July 19th, 2005 at 4:33 pmI’m here to hear what the left is talking about. Simple as that.
July 19th, 2005 at 4:38 pmPersonally I like this idea for tonight’s ceremony:
UPN channels inner C-SPAN
July 19th, 2005 at 4:41 pmI’ve spent quite a bit of time on rightwing blogs and I find them to be more smug, more serious and oh-so prone to semantic games (not to mention the bigotry and lying). The “living in a parallel universe” part is exactly the same though. These people are brainwashed, it’s scary the degree to which they are convinced that “liberals” are the enemy. I guess that’s what happens when you’ve been lied to incessantly for years….it sinks in.
July 19th, 2005 at 4:41 pmSkid, the thing to look at in this and any other candidate is..What is their stance on ammending the constitution to allow Bushie a third term?
Thats the only issue he is concerned about at this time.
Watch him, he’s a sneak.
July 19th, 2005 at 5:28 pmMy only comment is this: what are conseratives so afraid of?
I’ve never had any desire to sit around conservative weblogs and insult the people who post there. I simply don’t care enough to do that, nor do I feel threatened enough to need to harass them. They’re wrong, its not any big secret. I don’t feel defensive about it. I don’t need to mess with it.
It seems to be conservatives who are so insecure and defensive about their point of view that they spent the bulk of their time hunting around “left” site and harassing people with unevidenced, hyperbolic, ad hominem rhetoric.
Strange…
July 19th, 2005 at 6:18 pmKerry a traitor? Nah. I think he exaggerated both his record and the amount of random civilian killing that went on in Vietnam, but I wouldn’t say he was a traitor.
Thanks for the defense Kraz
Comment by Concerned Conservative
I still like civil discourse, but I tend not to expect it in places where third person plural pronouns are put in italics with the expectation that those agreement will all nod knowingly.
Happily for me, I love a good flame war, too.
Comment by just john  July 19, 2005 @ 3:57 pm
Ignorant or blind, I wouldn’t cut either of these tools any slack. The radical right are anti-American traitors. Centrist apologists are their willing enablers.
Remember, it’s just a few bad apples. It’s not a program designed to terrorize.
http://www.toledoblade.com/ apps/ pbcs.dll/ section?Category=SRTIGERFORCE
http://www.thememoryhole.org/phoenix/
You can both go to hell with Bushcon and all his little treasonous friends.
July 19th, 2005 at 6:40 pmSusan,
Yes, I can’t help but to expect a catch/trick in this possible canidate. Its the MO of BushCo obviously. We shall see.
And selwynn, I agree. It can be informative, but leaves me feeling more like I just witnessed some kind of “snuff porn” website, thinking it can’t be real and how do people get off on this?
July 19th, 2005 at 6:44 pmBest site I’ve found with info about Nam. From a “radical liberal professor” no doubt. Or in plain english, a guy who is more interested in the truth than lies and denial. And he still has a hard time keeping various info on line. People just don’t want to know. “Bad Apples” go down easier.
http://www.chss.montclair.edu/english/furr/vietnam.html
Never trust a “reasonable conservative”. There is no such thing.
July 19th, 2005 at 6:48 pmGary Bauer, values czar, and friend of 19 year old interns everywhere
http://americablog.blogspot.com/ 2005/ 07/ gary-bauer-values-czar-and-friend-of.html
Gary Bauer, who dropped out of the presidential race in 2000 after being caught spending way too much time behind closed doors with a barely legal intern, now says that liberals hate America. I suspect this is an effort to get the media attention, and our attention, off of Karl Rove.
At some point, someone needs to tell this guy to get a life. Not to mention, I love that the American Family Association seems to be trying to rehabilitate Bauer. They’re constantly quoting him, in an apparent effort to make him relevant again after he was disowned by the right following his intern extravaganza. I guess the cloud of adultery has a statute of limitations for the AFA. Wonder how they feel about the other Ten Commandments.
…Pro-family pundit Gary Bauer says he is shocked at the intensity of hatred for America that members of the political Left exhibit. He says liberals hold what he sees as an apparent “very deep hatred” for America and what it stands for today. “It’s amazing to me,” Bauer commented recently, “how often the American Left — whether it’s Michael Moore or now various U.S. senators — how often and how easily over the last several years they have compared their own country to Germany and President Bush to Hitler.” The conservative spokesman says this happens far too often to be a slip of the tongue. Therefore, Bauer concludes, it must be a sincere hatred for the U.S. and its traditional moral values.
I don’t hate America. I just hate Republicans, conservatives, fundamentalists and some Democrats in name only. It would be a great country again if they all just dissappeared tomorrow.
July 19th, 2005 at 6:57 pmIf this is their idea of changing the subject, it’s not going to work. The MSM may drop it, but those of us in the blogosphere will not until we get answers.
July 19th, 2005 at 10:35 pmHave you ever noticed that Gary Bauer, Falwell, Dobson, and the rest of the theocrats are so ugly they couln’t get a date if they tried? Maybe that’s what all this sanctity stuff is about “tity”. Just a thought.
July 20th, 2005 at 12:37 pmWhen monkey boy gets his ass in a crack (see Rove) he and rover decide to spin….
What is normally a piece of news given in a news breifing, now suddenly becomes a PRIME TIME EVENT. They think this will take rover and his treason off the front page…..
Didn’t quite work did it monkey boy and assturd.
Will tune in next week to see these repugnicans fall.
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