Roberts’ Wife Was Board Member of “Feminists for Life”
Roberts’ Wife Was Board Member of “Feminists for Life”
Though John Roberts’ views on privacy and reproductive rights are still unknown (like so much about the nominee), Roberts’ wife is a prominent anti-choice activist.
Jane Sullivan Roberts has extensive ties to the conservative group Feminists for Life. As late as 1998, Mrs. Roberts was the group’s Executive Vice President. In 2001, she was identified as the “FFL board counsel,” and in the Summer 2002 FFL quarterly, The American Feminist, Roberts is listed as a member of the “Elizabeth Cady Stanton Circle” of fundraisers, who have raised between $1,000-$2,499 for the organization.
UPDATE: To get a sense of FFL, here’s the top item on their “News” page:
If the Supreme Court overturns the Roe v. Wade decision that legalized abortion, says Senator Barbara Boxer (D-Calif)., “…a minimum of 5,000 women a year will die.” Serrin Foster explains why women deserve better than fabricated statistics or legal and lethal abortion. See the complete story at LifeNews.com.
Topic Cloud
ArchivesBlog Roll
Hm. I propose we leak that his wife got him the job.
July 20th, 2005 at 2:08 pmI’ll bet FFL is a small org. full of unnattractive, busy women whose husband provide maids.
Don’t forget CIA:
Rep. King, Peter (R-NY-3rd)
July 20th, 2005 at 2:13 pmSen. Hutchison, Kay Bailey (R-TX)
Sen. Cornyn, John (R-TX)
Sen. Coleman, Norm (R-MN
Rep. Blunt, Roy (R-MO-7th
Sen. Graham, Lindsey (R-SC)
Brian, could you expound on your post a bit more? You’ve listed both of my senators, what’d they do now?
July 20th, 2005 at 2:19 pmI’m curious what her exact definition of “feminist” is.
July 20th, 2005 at 2:23 pmThat’s hilarious ghostboy.
July 20th, 2005 at 2:30 pmNate,
This is an incomplete list of folks who have publicly supported Karl Rove and/or dismissed the CIA as putting high a regard on Plame’s classified status. I email them frequently to express my concern with WH behavior.
Rep. King, Peter (R-NY-3rd)
Sen. Hutchison, Kay Bailey (R-TX)
Sen. Cornyn, John (R-TX)
Sen. Coleman, Norm (R-MN
Rep. Blunt, Roy (R-MO-7th
Sen. Graham, Lindsey (R-SC)
2 of these are also my senators.
July 20th, 2005 at 2:32 pmI propose we leak to the religious whacks that Roberts’ wife belonged to a feminist organization.
July 20th, 2005 at 2:39 pmVery good, Gary!
July 20th, 2005 at 2:39 pmI would like to expand my list if anyone else has a name to add. #2,3,6
July 20th, 2005 at 2:43 pmSo who exactly are the McCarthyists?
July 20th, 2005 at 2:55 pmHas one actually seen Jane Sullivan Roberts?
I just wonder of she has an Adams Apple like the majority of rightwing women? You know, like Ann-thrax Coulter, Elizabeth ‘Don’t call me Liddy’ Dole, Cackling Granny Babs Bush and Laura Ingraham — with large, apparent Adams Apples that make them look like drag queens.
. . .
July 20th, 2005 at 2:56 pmI would have objected to this, but these days I think Roberts’ wife is “fair game”. (Note that I never posted her name here.)
July 20th, 2005 at 3:04 pm#13 – go after her if you want. Bring it on. Roberts is not a liar like Joe Wilson.
July 20th, 2005 at 3:08 pmOr you Dil-enema?
July 20th, 2005 at 4:07 pmShe’s a feminist, eh? What will Rush say?
July 20th, 2005 at 4:12 pmI know several who work with Feminists for Life at the grassroots level, and not a single one of them voted for Bush this past election. FFL may be opposed to abortion, but as a whole they take harder positions against war and capital punishment than Kerry did.
Open your eyes….not everyone who opposed abortion is a religious right fascist.
XprolifeXveganX@yahoo.com
July 20th, 2005 at 4:22 pmThe right will no doubt embrace this ‘feminist’ just like they embrace the ‘environmentalists’ who support ‘Clear Skies’ and ‘Healthy Forests.’ I am intrigued by this strategy of co-option, which the right seems to do pretty well. Maybe we should try it. Is anyone interested in forming ‘Fundamentalists for Tolerance’ or ‘Aryans for Equality’?
July 20th, 2005 at 4:29 pmRoberts will be confirmed, unfortunately. The real battle will be when the Chief Justice dies. Thats the slot the WH is saving for a real nut!
July 20th, 2005 at 4:31 pmWill Rush call her a feminazi?
July 20th, 2005 at 5:00 pmThank you XpXvX–I continue to be amazed that people who otherwise believe themselves to be tolerant cannot accept the fact that one can be anti-abortion yet pro-equality, pro-environment and anti-capital punishment. Where are your concepts of pluralism and cogent dialogue, Adrift?
July 20th, 2005 at 5:17 pmHopefully Barbara Boxer will be one of the 5,000 !!!
July 20th, 2005 at 5:25 pmActually Phil is right. There are Democrats that don’t think abortion is a morally correct alternative. Now, none of the ones I know like that think they have the right to limit others, but they would choose not to have one. Undoubtably, some are on the same page as the extremists-ie – they want to force you to obey their ideas.
Republicans – well, they don’t have any problems trying to force their views down others openings. Funny, I never thought about it that way but it’s almost like power trip/mental rape kind of thing. What a paradox.
July 20th, 2005 at 5:25 pmBarbara Boxer is the best Senator I’ve ever voted for, & I’m PROUD she is my Senator.
July 20th, 2005 at 5:26 pmI believe we should not fight against Roberts at this time. Bush and Rove would love that to take Rove off the front page. The real fight will come when the Chief Justice is replaced. That’s where the balbance between right and left—or good and evil—will come. Save the fight for then and let’s keep Rove on page one.
July 20th, 2005 at 5:30 pmGreat point RE.
July 20th, 2005 at 5:31 pmTRUE feminism always held the best interests of women at heart, releasing them from “chattle” days.
Today’s feminism realizes that abortion maims, destroys and reduces women back to being expendable…(not to mention their unborn children.)
JUDGE ROBERTS AND THE IRAN-CONTRA AFFAIR
John Roberts, the federal appeals court judge who was nominated by President Bush to the U.S. Supreme Court yesterday, played a minor role during the Reagan Administration in the chain of events that became known as the Iran Contra affair.
In his 1993 final report on the matter, Independent Counsel Lawrence E. Walsh mentioned Mr. Roberts in describing the illegal fundraising activities of Clark R. “Spitz” Channell:
Mr. Channell approached the White House to “offer his assistance in promoting President Reagan’s contra policies,” Mr. Walsh wrote in Chapter 13 of his report.
“He was referred to White House political aide John Roberts, who in turn directed him to [Richard R.] Miller, a private public relations consultant who ran a firm known as International Business Communications (IBC).”
“According to Channell, Roberts told him that Miller and his partner Frank Gomez ‘are the White House — outside the White House’.”
Channell and Miller would later plead guilty to felony conspiracy charges. Judge Roberts was not accused of wrongdoing.
See Chapter 13 of the Final Report of the Independent Counsel for Iran/Contra Matters, volume I, here:
http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/walsh/chap_13.htm
Judge Roberts was Associate Counsel to the President from November 1982 to May 1986.
July 20th, 2005 at 5:39 pmYou guys have it all wrong. “FFL Board Counsel” simply means she is in charge of her Fantasy Football League. Relax…
July 20th, 2005 at 5:40 pm>>Roberts’ wife is a prominent anti-choice activist.
July 20th, 2005 at 5:52 pm“Roberts’ wife is a prominent anti-choice activist.”
Give me a break. I am an active pro-life advocate and I have never heard of her until yesterday. You people should actually check out the Feminist For Life organization before you assume and call it “conservative.” But I guess assuming things is what the pro-choice movement and those who follow do best.
July 20th, 2005 at 5:53 pmAmerica is a melting pot, take a look around, and if you are isolated and see that then get off your fat butt and travel and learn. Our glue is tolerance of differences… that means we can agree to disagree. It does not mean that one party can eliminate or deminish the choice of another for what ever reason (anything based one belief systems is tragic, as no one can deliver fact and truth in those systems, just faith). I love this country because we have choices, that’s freedom. I feel we are all being distracted by wedge issues, while our country in general goes the wrong direction. I have always felt our greatest strength was our diversity. Those who push for their special interest at the expense of others are UN-AMERICAN ! That relates to every issue out there; religon, business, the environment and human relations. I pray we all grow up soon, and stop action like hormonal teenagers… pouting and slamming doors to get our way. The other binding force in our American equation is compromise… yes, that’s means no one gets every thing they want, their way every time ! Many of the things the extremists pursue have always been moving targets that force the rest of us to take our eyes off the ball and swing at air. My heart is sad that we pre-judge and stereo type so easily these days… we are going backwards. Aho
July 20th, 2005 at 5:56 pmThanks, reading the right-wing blogs I was afraid Bush made a mistake with this guy, but knowing this I will rest better tonight : ) My prediction is you guys find some poor victim of Roberts, sexual harassment is so Anita Hill, and then you just used the whole “he’s mean” ploy on Bolton….HMMMM? Use your imaginations this time.
July 20th, 2005 at 6:15 pmHere’s the worst case scenario regarding Roe vs. Wade:
The supreme court overturns.
The Republicans refer to their list of doctors who will perform illegal abortions when needed.
July 20th, 2005 at 6:17 pmI almost hope that Bush’s new Supreme Court does overturn Roe v. Wade so I can watch the fallout from abortion being made illegal in the United States. The Phillippines certainly seems to be struggling mightily with that weighty precedent, but farbeit from Americans to ever consider how things go down in other countries when considering the choices we make here.
Yes, let them reap what they have sown.
July 20th, 2005 at 6:23 pmGood post green thunder.
July 20th, 2005 at 6:39 pmSusan, you are correct.
He or She Is The Wrong Man or Woman For The Court
Critical Urgent Community Action Bulletin
from the Progressive Action Network For American Progress
For Immediate Release
The Progressive Action Network For American Progress is extremely concerned by today’s news that President Bush has selected ___JOHN ROBERTS___ as his nominee for the vacancy on the United States Supreme Court. Unlike outgoing Justice Sandra Day O’Connor, the widely respected and admired moderate consensus-building sensible mainstream compromisist, ___JOHN ROBERTS___ has a shocking record of extremely extreme fringe legal positions that fill us with grave concerns about ___HIS___ fitness for this critically crucial office.
Make no mistake: no one should be fooled by the administration’s public relations efforts or ___JOHN ROBERTS___ ’s seemingly “moderate” appearance. ___JOHN ROBERTS___ has a record that suggests that ___HE___ would deny women the right to reproductive choice, stop important life-saving medical stem cell research by extending the Patriot Act to draft their unwanted fetuses, and turn these conscripted fetuses over to dangerous tax-supported ‘Creationist’ religious indoctrination laboratories. The Supreme Court is a lifetime appointment, and America needs to know whether ___JOHN ROBERTS___ supports the GOP’s secret plan of a Rush Limbaugh Jesus army of unwanted, unquestioning fetus zombies programmed to urinate on the Korans of Guantanamo detainees.
We should also point out that our opposition to ___JOHN ROBERTS___ has nothing to do with the nominee’s race and/or gender. We at the Progressive Action Network For American Progress have long been on record of standing up for the civil rights of ___WHITE MEN___ , rights from which ___JOHN ROBERTS___ ironically, has benefitted. Sadly, rather than create programs and begin to work on the real problems that concern ___WHITE MEN___ , the Bush administration has cynically forwarded an unqualified, token candidate like ___JOHN ROBERTS___ to mask its callous indifference to the plight of the ___WHITE MAN___ community.
WHAT YOU CAN DO
In response to this shocking nomination, we here at the Progressive Action Network For American Progress are joining forces with other mainstream grassroots progressive activist organizations — organizations like Peace Power Community Now Network, Grant Proposers for Justice, NairBusters, Out of Our Wombs!, UpChuck.org, ToothACHE, and Sitcom Producers for the American Way. Over the next few weeks we will be encouraging the Senate Judiciary Committee to take a close look at ___JOHN ROBERTS___ and ___HIS___ extremist views on the critical legal issues that face all of us. While we will be working hard to get out the word in Washington, ordinary progressive citizens like you can do your part as well. First, write your newspaper and/or Senator and let them know that you will not stand by idly while Bush and Company install a pseudo-” ___WHITE MAN___” like ___JOHN ROBERTS___ on the nation’s highest court. Here’s a letter to get you started!
Dear Senator __________
As a constituent and a voter in our great state of ___________, home of the famous ___________, I am proud that our state enjoys the the nickname of “Cradle of ____________s.” This is why I must strongly urge you to oppose the nomination of ___JOHN ROBERTS___, a dangerous extremist whose legal rulings threaten to endanger our state’s beloved ___________, making us no better than Mississippi.
Sincerely,
Your Name Here
Be polite and remember to fill in your Senator’s name and pertinent facts about your state. If you are from Mississippi, replace “Mississippi” with “California”. Also, replace “Your Name Here” with your name, unless your name is actually “Your Name Here.”
Another thing you can do to help is to find more information about ___JOHN ROBERTS___ . The people who know ___HIM___, what do they say about ___HIM___ ? Was ___HE___ ever in trouble with the law? Frequently, ___WHITE MEN___ like ___JOHN ROBERTS___ have arrest records in their youth. If you are near ___JOHN ROBERTS___ ’s hometown of ___UNKNOWN___, try searching in the local police archives for the ___JOHN ROBERTS___ name or possible aliases. Also, think hard — are you certain that you have not been personally victimized, or assaulted by ___JOHN ROBERTS___? Search your recollections carefully. Scientists tell us that millions of us suffer from Repressed Memory Syndrome — a debilitating psychological problem where victims are unable to recall a painful physical or emotional trauma, such as being physically violated by ___JOHN ROBERTS___. If you do not remember this happening to you, please call us and we will get you the help you need to recover your mind and start the road to healing.
Consider the consequences of inaction: with ___JOHN ROBERTS___ on the bench, millions of Americans may lose their cherished constitutional rights, Air America, perhaps even their grant money from George Soros. We here at the Progressive Action Network For American Progress ask you to please do your part. Our very democracy depends on the grassroots action of committed progressives like ___YOUR_NAME_HERE___ .
http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/
July 20th, 2005 at 6:41 pmI know, you guys are humorless, but this fits you so well.
How ironic that several posters who supposedly support feminism would use remarks disparaging of womens’ looks just because their viewpoint is different on the abortion issue. They don’t even know these women!
If America is the place for tolerance, then are not some of the posters here violating what they say they advocate by demanding that all feminists be pro-choice.
Why can’t Democrats or feminists be pro-life? There are many of us who are pro-life “from the womb to the tomb,” and who supported the removal of T. Schiavo’s feeding tube.
The Democrats for Life have proposed a plan with the goal of reducing abortions by 95 percent in 10 years. Is that a goal that anyone can be against. And before anyone claims it must be a right-wing organization in disguise, here is a brief on one member of its board of directors, Carol Crossed:
Carol has been a lobbyist on hunger and anti-war issues. As a Native American, Carol has been active in the Indian rights movement. Award recipient: Susan B Anthony; Peaceful Solutions in Non-violence; Women’s Wall of Fame; Reconciliation Network; Gaudete Medal; World Food Day Stamp, Rochester, NY, US Postal Service; She was the subject of a story that won second place in the National Catholic Press Association, 2000.
July 20th, 2005 at 6:44 pmAbortion and God. They always bring out the wingnuts. None of them can get pregnant. None of them know God personally, and never will.
July 20th, 2005 at 6:59 pmRe: Posting 37.
Unfortunately, the religious right has appropriated the anti-abortion/pro-life/keep-Schiavo-alive message to such a degree that if you do want to oppose those who think Terri Schiavo should be kept alive, you’re also supporting abortion. It’s part of President Bush’s polarizing ‘culture of life’ comments that were made at the time of the Schiavo debacle.
Democrats can oppose abortions as a personal choice all that they want.
But the fact is, if Roe vs. Wade is struck down, safe abortions will only be available to rich Republicans and Democrats who can fly to another country to get them.
So you have to ask yourself — can you be a Democrat and oppose abortion? For me, the answer is, no, because I cannot reconcile myself to what America will be like after abortion is no longer available; it will be a country of rights and privileges only for the wealthy.
July 20th, 2005 at 7:29 pmFirst it was women’s rights. They whined and whined, and got to vote. Then they wanted a car, too, after the house. Then they become feminists. Women’s rights wasn’t good enough. Now, they have the Feminists for life as if some of them aren’t for life. Good golly Miss Molly.
The radical women are trying to out feminist one another.
As far as I know, abortion is something that has been around for many thousands of years. That’s all I need to know.
I picked up a book entitled “Our Bodies, Ourselves” and read through some of it. On one of the pages there is a picture of a dead woman on the floor of a hotel room. A victim of a botched abortion.
I have been in favor of legal abortion ever since I have seen that picture. A woman has her own body. It belongs to nobody.
July 20th, 2005 at 8:31 pmlink
July 20th, 2005 at 8:35 pmRight on Ron.
And if history teaches us anything, people do whatever they want to do, law or no law.
Murder is against the law but it happens every day. Rape is against the law and it happens every day.
Outing a C.I.A agent is against the law yet it happens.
Unfortunately, we have a criminal leading this country and his own behavior is justified and condoned by the right.
A real solution is to chose a leader who sets a good example for others. (A good start would be to keep your underage daughters out of drinking establishments)
votetoimpeach.org
July 20th, 2005 at 9:18 pmIs it not true that W paid for an abortion for his girlfriend in his younger days? I believe it was in the Kitty Kelley book.
July 20th, 2005 at 10:02 pmThere’s absolutely nothing wrong with being pro-life.
July 20th, 2005 at 10:22 pmYou can’t be pro-life and a warmonger Lyle.
That makes you a hypocrit and nothing else.
July 20th, 2005 at 10:26 pmSusan,
I’m pro-choice actually. How you figured I was pro-life from my comment, I don’t know.
And if stopping Saddam Hussein from ever again having a woman gang raped because of her political views means I’m a warmonger… than yeah, I’m a warmonger.
July 20th, 2005 at 10:36 pmSorry, thought you were saying you are pro-life. My bad.
The jury is still out on your Hussein claims. So your warmongering is a bit premature.
By the way, is that why we attacked Iraq? I thought it was because Saddam had WMD’s. My bad again?
July 20th, 2005 at 10:41 pmThe jury is still out on Saddam Hussein? You’re kidding right? Hussein killed tens of thousands of innocent people because of their skin color, religous beliefs, or political persuasion. This is fact and it is fact that he has women gang-raped as a form of punishment for their political or social activities.
And MY reason for supporting the liberation of Iraq was not WMDs but because it was our obligation, after our past transgressions against the Iraqi people, to eliminate Saddam Hussein.
You probably know that the U.S. (and every other western country) supported Saddam at one point. That means we had the responsiblity to stop him or end him. And now we have and I couldn’t be more proud.
July 20th, 2005 at 10:45 pmIt is the job of judges to apply the written laws to cases that come before them. The US Constitution, the written law, is silent on the issue of abortion, therefore it is a question for legislative bodies how or whether to regulate it.
July 20th, 2005 at 10:49 pm“Has one actually seen Jane Sullivan Roberts?
I just wonder of she has an Adams Apple like the majority of rightwing women? You know, like Ann-thrax Coulter, Elizabeth ‘Don’t call me Liddy’ Dole, Cackling Granny Babs Bush and Laura Ingraham  with large, apparent Adams Apples that make them look like drag queens.”
And another intellectual high water mark for the left. *L*
July 20th, 2005 at 10:51 pmYou (Lyle) never believed the WMD crap either. Well kudo’s to you.
Oh, You support the liberation of Iraq for your own reasons. When were you made the decision maker to attack Iraq? Are you willing to be held accountable?
And since you are proud to have taken on the responsibility to stop Hussein, I assume you’re in Iraq now. Good for you.
You do have the judges guilty verdicts handy I gather.
I’d like a copy for my records.
July 20th, 2005 at 11:04 pmSusan,
I supported the Iraq for what the consequences would be, i.e, the end of Saddam’s regime. So yes, hold me accountable for advocating for the independence of the Iraqi people from such backwards tyranny.
Put me on trial toots.
… and Hitler wasn’t guilty of killing jews just because some court said he did. Saddam’s trial is a formality, an important one, but a formality.
Only dumb people say Saddam didn’t murder people.
July 20th, 2005 at 11:17 pmYou left out one little point Lyle… Saddam was a bad man………..and Saddam was standing on the 2nd largest oil reserves in the world.
July 20th, 2005 at 11:20 pmSo you are in Iraq, yes?..
How does the blood on your hands feel. Is it warm and sticky?
How do you feel when you scrape up the babies you blow up? Do their parents thank you for a job well done?
You are a true American terrorist. That is for sure. I’ve seen the photos of the blood you’ve spilled.
I’ve seen photo’s of Hitlers death camps.
Please show me some of Husseins. You do have those handy, yes?
July 20th, 2005 at 11:24 pmAnd Roves, Bushie’s, Rumsfelds and Cheneys trials are a formality too, agreed?
July 20th, 2005 at 11:27 pmhaha… Susan, you’re naive woman or girl. the american doesn’t kill innocent iraqi children. muslim terrorists do kill innocent iraqi children, but american soldiers do not. iraqi children have died accidently and tragically at the hands of americans, but not on purpose. it is very sad, but it is not unlawful or morally wrong.
i’m proud that american soldiers have killed to help free the Iraqi people from tyranny. it is a human tragedy, but so was killing Germans and Japanese in WWII (which including the blood of babies which you so abhor). if blood had not been spilled Saddam Hussein would still bein power and he still be killing, mutilating and raping innocent iraqis.
you also understand tht amnesty and human rights watch have well documented saddam hussein’s atrocities. if i were you, i got ask them for their records.
furthermore bush, cheney and rumsfeld are not war criminals and will not be held criminally responsible for ending Saddam Hussein’s authoritarian regime.
July 20th, 2005 at 11:36 pmHere suzy if you like to look at sick crap. So now Bush = Saddam? Nice, and you think the US military targets chilren? Perhaps the Mujadeen should not hide behind them? Store their weapons in the schools and mosques? http://images.google.com/images?q=saddam%20victims&num=100&hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&safe=off&sa=N&tab=wi
Enjoy.
July 20th, 2005 at 11:36 pmI often wonder if there is any point at which these people would admit they made a mistake. Maybe after a civil war sectarian holocaust that just might be about to happen. The Sunnis look like they may be pulling out. Of course, it must be Clinton’s fault.
BAGHDAD, Iraq, July 20 – After the assassination of two colleagues, Sunni Arabs on the committee writing the new Iraqi constitution said Wednesday that they were temporarily withdrawing, a move that could delay the drafting and undermine the legitimacy of the American-backed political process.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/20/international/middleeast/20cnd-iraq.html?hp&ex=1121918400&en=bc722043cbd273d4&ei=5094&partner=homepage
July 20th, 2005 at 11:37 pmWhatever it is. I have worse that we have done, so blow me.
July 20th, 2005 at 11:38 pmLyle loves the cover stories.
July 20th, 2005 at 11:39 pmhttp://www.thetruthaboutiraq.org/myths_05.htm
July 20th, 2005 at 11:39 pmMore for you suzy.
Warning on both links, graphic content.
Those are Kurds, turd. They are hated by all Iraqis. Nice try tho.
July 20th, 2005 at 11:39 pmNo need to warn us. If it comes from you it’s bullshit propaganda.
July 20th, 2005 at 11:41 pmgiddy,
maybe it’s because we don’t think we made a mistake. just because there is a lot of human suffering going on in iraq doesn’t mean we made a mistake. it’s fine for you to think we made a mistake, but I don’t and will not ever.
celebrate differences of opinion.
July 20th, 2005 at 11:41 pmYeah..Yeahh You gotta….. kill it … to… save ..it. makes sense, shoulda thought of it.
July 20th, 2005 at 11:42 pmquaq,
what cover stories? you mean the united states DIDN’t support Saddam in the past? you mean Saddam didn’t kill people because of their political beliefs, ethnicity or religion?
why do you people like to make fools of yourselves?
July 20th, 2005 at 11:45 pmMaking THE WORLD FREE…….for resource extraction and exploitation.
July 20th, 2005 at 11:45 pmEven Molly “moonbat” Ivins had to stop with her BS, but only after the right beat her into reality.
CROW EATEN HERE: This is a horror. In a column written June 28, I asserted that more Iraqis (civilians) had now been killed in this war than had been killed by Saddam Hussein over his 24-year rule. WRONG. Really, really wrong.
The only problem is figuring out by how large a factor I was wrong. I had been keeping an eye on civilian deaths in Iraq for a couple of months, waiting for the most conservative estimates to creep over 20,000, which I had fixed in my mind as the number of Iraqi civilians Saddam had killed.
The high-end estimate of Iraqi civilian deaths in this war is 100,000, according to a Johns Hopkins University study published in the British medical journal The Lancet last October, but I was sticking to the low-end, most conservative estimates because I didn’t want to be accused of exaggeration.
Ha! I could hardly have been more wrong, no matter how you count Saddam’s killing of civilians. According to Human Rights Watch, Hussein killed several hundred thousand of his fellow citizens. The massacre of the Kurdish Barzani tribe in 1983 killed at least 8,000; the infamous gas attack on the Kurdish village of Halabja killed 5,000 in 1988; and seized documents from Iraqi security organizations show 182,000 were murdered during the Anfal ethnic cleansing campaign against Kurds, also in 1988.
In 1991, following the first Gulf War, both the Kurds and the Shiites rebelled. The allied forces did not intervene, and Saddam brutally suppressed both uprisings and drained the southern marshes that had been home to a local population for more than 5,000 years.
Saddam’s regime left 271 mass graves, with more still being discovered. That figure alone was the source for my original mistaken estimate of 20,000. Saddam’s widespread use of systematic torture, including rape, has been verified by the U.N. Committee on Human Rights and other human rights groups over the years.
There are wildly varying estimates of the number of civilians, especially babies and young children, who died as a result of the sanctions that followed the Gulf War. While it is true that the ill-advised sanctions were put in place by the United Nations, I do not see that that lessens Hussein’s moral culpability, whatever blame attaches to the sanctions themselves — particularly since Saddam promptly corrupted the Oil for Food Program put in place to mitigate the effects of the sanctions, and used the proceeds to build more palaces, etc.
There have been estimates as high as 1 million civilians killed by Saddam, though most agree on the 300,000 to 400,000 range, making my comparison to 20,000 civilian dead in this war pathetically wrong.
I was certainly under no illusions regarding Saddam Hussein, whom I have opposed through human rights work for decades. My sincere apologies. It is unforgivable of me not have checked. I am so sorry.
July 20th, 2005 at 11:45 pmhttp://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?ItemID=19337
quaq,
to stop hitler and japan, germans and japanese had to be killed, mutilated and bombed.
it’s an unfortunate reality and tragedy, but it’s life.
July 20th, 2005 at 11:46 pmThats nice that you are proud to kill babies even if its accidental.
I guess it’s safe to say that you have just a bit of Hitler in ya.
Again, please show me the photos, I’ve seen the blood that your proud of now show me some of Husseins pride and joy.
Lyle said ” Bushie, Cheney and Rummie are not war criminals.” Lyle has spoken, “killing babies is something to be proud of”..
Thanks for making Hussein stop killing people, we really appreciate you doing the job instead, your much better at it. And much prouder.
July 20th, 2005 at 11:47 pmI wonder if all those “mass graves” they uncovered might have been Iraqi soldiers we buried alive by the thousands during the first Gulf War. They just bulldozed them right under in most cases in the fortifications and bunkers and burms. No one is saying Saddam was anything but an idiot tyrant, but Iraqis never dumped Kuwaiti infants out of their incubators on to the floor in Kuwait either. All lies to justify the first war. You’ve been lied to. Either you are propagating the lies knowingly, or you just can’t handle the truth.
July 20th, 2005 at 11:47 pmCover stories: They are or may be real stories but cover a deeper truth. OIL. The real story.
July 20th, 2005 at 11:48 pmNo one in their right mind trusts this administration anymore. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. About 75% of the population now refuses to drink the kool-aid anymore. Deal with it.
July 20th, 2005 at 11:50 pmSelling a swampland time-share. Intersted Lyle?
July 20th, 2005 at 11:51 pmTo stop Saddam from doing what?
July 20th, 2005 at 11:51 pmMaking an ass out of himself?
July 20th, 2005 at 11:52 pmBy that logic we should exterminate Lyle and Fake before they continue to make asses out of themselves.
July 20th, 2005 at 11:52 pmThrow in the fact the Muj run around in civilian dress and the 20,000 is closer to 10,000, and that is counting civilians the Muj killed as our fault. I remember in the first days of the war, the photos of a market we supposedly bombed, that clearly had mortar rounds dropped in it, when our guys were still in Kuwait. If anyone has blood on their hands I would say it was those who give propaganda support to our enemies, who can’t win, but are convinced they can wait us out.
July 20th, 2005 at 11:53 pmRAPE ROOMS!! RAPE ROOMS!!!
Not in Iraq, at the Bohemian Club… BOMB THEM!
July 20th, 2005 at 11:54 pmDidn’t you hear Gordon and Quag? Lyle is proud to take on Saddams role of murdering babies.
He’s a proud terrorist. I wonder who has more pride Saddam or Lyle?
Lets do a poll.
I vote Lyle.
July 20th, 2005 at 11:54 pmsusan,
why do you misquote me? do you not know how to read? i didn’t say a thing you put in quotes.
i hate that children have died. german and japanese children died at our hands in world war ii. so what? it would have made no sense, just like now, to not go to war because some children might die. it’s very sad, but it had to happen otherwise greater wrongs would triumph.
don’t ever misquote agains Susan. respect what i actually write.
July 20th, 2005 at 11:54 pmWhy aren’t you over there Fake, a couple of cold-blooded killers like you and Lyle could come in handy… for insurgent target practice.
July 20th, 2005 at 11:55 pmwhy are you people belittling what Saddam Hussein did to human beings?
July 20th, 2005 at 11:57 pmyou say your against violence, but you won’t me killed. how stupid.
July 20th, 2005 at 11:58 pmSaddam was a bad man, now the very people we said we wanted to save from him are suffering more than they ever did under him and Lyle and Fake are responsible. They should go to Iraq and get flattened so we can make jokes about them, like Fake does about Rachel Corrie.
July 20th, 2005 at 11:59 pmthe iraqi people are not suffering more because of us, they are suffering because of muslim fanaticism and because saddam’s thugs don’t want to lose control or be victims themselves.
just like molly ivins, a liberal, said more iraqis died under saddam than under our occupation.
July 21st, 2005 at 12:01 amWhy aren’t you in Iraq killing babies Lyle?
Come on, your better at it than Saddam Hussien. And your proud.
July 21st, 2005 at 12:01 amOnly 39% of Republicans say that Rove should not resign. Go to Iraq. Die like a hero or stay here and be ridiculed as a chickenhawk coward.
July 21st, 2005 at 12:02 amGo Lyle, find out for yourself.
July 21st, 2005 at 12:02 amYeah, Lyle seek the truth. Go to Iraq and ask the people.
Tell them how proud you are.
July 21st, 2005 at 12:04 amExterminate me? That’s progressive of you. Who has hate in their heart here? So you think staving the sick is ok, killing the unborn is ok, removing Saddam was wrong, and who has the blood on their hands here? Even in my own forum I don’t wish death on you sorry people. Enlightenment yes, death no. Understanding that though the US is imperfect, it is now, and always has been the best thing going on. Democracy is self correcting, and now I hope and pray, democracy will correct the aberration that is legalized abortion. Slavery was the law of the land as well, it didn’t make it right did it?
July 21st, 2005 at 12:04 amhaha… you people are crazy. i don’t have to go to iraq just because i support what we are doing in iraq.
and i won’t shut up about supporting this war just because i’m not a soldier.
July 21st, 2005 at 12:05 ami don’t have to go to iraq just because i support what we are doing in iraq.
No, but you have to go to Iraq before anyone here is going to give your opinions about the conditions there any weight, and even then, maybe not.
July 21st, 2005 at 12:07 amChickenhawk. Proud babie killer.
July 21st, 2005 at 12:07 amTake a plastic turkey with you.
July 21st, 2005 at 12:07 amPound for…. pound …..The weight of extracted oil should…… equal the weight of innocent people killed…too much.. MMMmmmmmm for a fair… exchange. no ….lets convert to gallons or better liters.., yeah.
July 21st, 2005 at 12:08 amUh, oh…Looks like Lyle may have a little trouble sleeping tonight.
It aint easy being a proud American terrorist.
July 21st, 2005 at 12:11 amWhen did I say I was against violence? I am all for the use of force as a last resort when it acheives an end that justifies the means.
July 21st, 2005 at 12:11 amDemocratizing a country at gunpoint for oil doesn’t quite cut it in my book.
July 21st, 2005 at 12:12 amYeah really, it’s not like the cost of gasoline has gone down or anything.
I’m sorry, that was a sick thing to say.
July 21st, 2005 at 12:14 amIt also doesn’t work, as we are all about to find out, again.
July 21st, 2005 at 12:14 amI think we should keep our civil wars to ourselves and not go spreading them all over the planet like we do over and over again.
July 21st, 2005 at 12:16 amLyles twisted logic leads him to believe that by removing Hussien the killing has stopped.
Now thats really sick.
July 21st, 2005 at 12:18 amGuess who’s going to prison?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/20/AR2005072002517_pf.html
July 21st, 2005 at 12:18 amKarl, Condi, Scooter, Ari, George, Dick, and Al, all going to jail.
July 21st, 2005 at 12:19 ambill clinton never fought in a war, yet he bombed people. and he had sent troops to Rwanda, which means they would have killed people, he would have done so without being a warrior himself.
so, i won’t be shutting up about supporting this war just because i’m not a solder.
July 21st, 2005 at 12:19 amDid you hear that Baghdads busiest hospital is operating without doctors?
Yeah, they didn’t like the democracy at gunpoint thing either.
They went on strike.
July 21st, 2005 at 12:20 amBut did Clinton get any oil? That is the question?
July 21st, 2005 at 12:22 amNow you want a civil war? Well, democracy is not working out to well for your side, even with control of most of the media, so that would be the next step. If Bush is Hitler and we are nazis you should overthrow him and kill us. That’s what’s wrong with your over the top BS, if you take it to it’s logical conclusion, we will have a civil war, to bad for you your side banned guns in almost all your blue cities and states.
July 21st, 2005 at 12:25 amGordon, I read about that memo earlier today. The AP wrote about it. They say Fitzgerald is particularly interested in that one.
It gets better and better every day. The evidence mounts!
July 21st, 2005 at 12:28 amWhy… I think if we bomb them Iraqis hard enough and often enough we won’t have to drill for oil. It’ll just bubble up to the surface and we can hire them to put it in barrels and clean up and then there will be jobs and democracy and then… they will even like us ….and and and all you libs will be proven wrong …..and and eat shit.
July 21st, 2005 at 12:30 amA civil war? I don’t think it would be fair…75% against 25%.
It just don’t seem fair to me.
July 21st, 2005 at 12:37 amThe side angling for a civil war is the side equating abortion with slavery, oh, and the religious wingnuts…
http://christianexodus.org/
I’m not too worried about it. All the industry and weapons are built in the blue states. You’ll get yer asses whipped again.
July 21st, 2005 at 12:48 amGood night Lyle, hope you sleep well tonight. (Don’t let those bloody babies disturb you, you be proud)
July 21st, 2005 at 12:49 amThey may get out their clogging shoes and clog us to death or beat us over the head with bibles .. oh, they already do….or bore us to death with country music or…. I give you win.
July 21st, 2005 at 12:54 amsusan,
i’m not going to sleep bad tonight. why would i? war is hell toots.
July 21st, 2005 at 1:01 amWay to go , Lyle.
And Susan, do you not think a jumbo jet (actually two jumbo jets) full of gas hitting our homeland and killing nearly 3000 people is a WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTTION??
Get you head form you anus and see what is going on.
The appointment is sound. His wife’s beliefs are irrelevant.(Anyone married knows you can hold countering views.)
July 21st, 2005 at 1:03 amFFL is an organization based solely on protecting women. If you would push the clouds of jugement aside, you would see that those people (women and men) are doing a service long overdue.
Abortion, long thought to be a right, is hurting women physically, mentally and spiritually. There are many other answers to an untimely pregnancy and our country should be supporting women the same way we support the unemployed, etcccc…………
WOMEN DESERVE BETTER>
Lyle ,
July 21st, 2005 at 1:04 amAre you by chance reading a Sargeant Rock comic book right now?
Lyle and susan need to find a room.
July 21st, 2005 at 1:07 am..and life is beatiful all the time and I’ll be happy to see those nice young men in their clean white coats,They’re coming to take me away ha! ha!
July 21st, 2005 at 1:10 amquaq,
i don’t read quags. i’ve actually been reading some law articles and some “der spiegel” articles.
have to stay informed to squash many of the silly views expressed at this site.
July 21st, 2005 at 1:22 amI’m not too worried about it. All the industry and weapons are built in the blue states. You’ll get yer asses whipped again.
Comment by G. Gordon Giddy
keep telling yourself that. You really think the red states need the blue? You guys depend on us to refine your gas, grow your food, etc…hell we tried to break it off and like a crazed ex you just couldn’t let go, LOL. You guys really cleaned our clocks,not Pop. dead
July 21st, 2005 at 1:26 amCivil War: Union 26.2 2,803.3
: Confederate 8.1 1,064.2
Not that I would want to see that happen again, but you are kidding yourself. You sound like you are about 12.
fake but inaccurate that post, wrong figures, time to go to bed, not that you history flunkies would have caught it anyway.
July 21st, 2005 at 1:51 amFeminists for Life is as disingenuous an organization as they come.
Sure Anthony, Wollstonecraft, and Stanton were “against” abortion back in the days when abortion–then illegal–was way more dangerous to women than even giving birth.
Their opposition had nothing to do with fetal rights.
Not only that, but their list of the few women who have died since abortion was legalized is nonsensical.
How about a list of the women who died BEFORE abortion was legalized?
So much for their “feminism.”
What a pack of liars to incorporate feminist rhetoric in order to advance a right-wing movement.
Face it, outside of abortion, nobody is interested in this group.
July 21st, 2005 at 1:51 amLife is Hell but War is Beautiful? Did I get that right? No, wait… War is Hell but Life is Beautiful… toots! Actually, I think the first one really fits all the pseudo-conservatives to a “T”. Life is Hell and War is Beautiful… Toots!
July 21st, 2005 at 7:03 amwar is hell toots.
Comment by Lyle  July 21, 2005 @ 1:01 am
He read it in a comic book.
Get you head form you anus and see what is going on. !!!!!!!!!!
July 21st, 2005 at 7:08 amRead the article linked above to find out the truth about deaths due to illegal abortion.
It amazes me that the number of deaths from legal abortion doesn’t get much air play. Those who die now due to legal abortions are lost to the cause of “choice”.
Perhaps those who are pro-life need to publish pictures of women bleeding to death in their bathrooms from legal abortion to get the attention of folks like Ron (post 40).
July 21st, 2005 at 9:40 amDeaths due to legalized abortion? From malpractice cases? Malpractice cases that the families can’t sue the insurance companies for diddly squat? Thanks to the GOP?
July 21st, 2005 at 9:54 amAnd from legal drugs…
July 21st, 2005 at 10:05 amFunny how some are debating that we went to war in Iraq to bring them “freedom” yet we are stripping women of their most fundamental freedom….freedom over their own bodies making us slaves to the patriarchy and forever second class citizens. Buy the way…Iraq was one of the most secular nations in the medeast. Women had tremendous freedom under Sadaam Hussein. Now the Constitution is being rewritten in Iraq to limit women’s rights and freedoms and force them to submit to Islamic law. Just like what the right wing wants to do hear except with Old Testiment law instead.
July 21st, 2005 at 10:30 amYou guys are way ahead of yourselves ……
Susan, read the FFL literature, the work written by Anthony and her cronies,,,even WAY back then, they were pissed that men can impregnate and flee…as lots of them did and still do…ending a pregnancy doen’t make it “even” or “equal”..
FFL’s premise is that by women feeling forced, scared, abandoned or that they have so support we have let them dowm.
We’re a wealthy country and have no more to offer women in that situaion than a cold table and sharp(maybe clean) instruments to rid her of her “problem”
Don’t know how many are parents/women….but you know you are carrying life…you know if it is vaccuumed from your body and that shit has seriuos friggin ramifications….
The injustice is that none of the “Womens’ Rights Groups” recognize or acknowledge the truth.
July 21st, 2005 at 10:34 amTalk about hypocritical.
what an interesting discussion!
#37: lyle & fake are really anti-abortion, NOT pro-life which is just another radical right perversion of the language. pro-life is: no abortion, no capital punishment, anti-war, pro helping people who need it (for whatever reason). anti-abortion is just that and is a perfectly respectable position on its own. most of us can agree that abortion should be legal and rare. perverting the language to take an inherently contradictory position(’i'm pro-life and anti-abortion, but pro capital punishment and pro-war’) is almost a textbook definition of cognitive dissonance. no wonder the radical right mostly makes no sense.
#56: lyle & fake are ignoring one teeny, tiny, minor detail in their support of bush&co’s war in iraq. his invasion of iraq was and is by legal definition an aggressive war which, also by legal definition, makes it a crime against the peace, which makes them war criminals. we don’t need to go into the treason involved with deliberate lies and distortions that were perpetrated against ‘we the people’ and the ongoing destruction of our constitution and the very qualities that make america america.
before lyle & fake start talking about not obeying international law, remember that the united states was the prime architect of the nuremburg principles which tried the nazis (and the japanese) and those principles are now also part of u.s. law. sorry guys: war crimes have been deliberately committed by bush&co and you should get out of the right wing echo chamber and idolatry of bush and learn the truth. no amount of ’saddam bad’ can justify the unprovoked and aggressive war carried out by bush&co. they are war criminals and people like you and the right wing media are fellow travelers and complicit and guilty in varying degress in those war crimes. once you’ve started an aggressive war (like bush), everything after that is a war crime.
leave the darkness for the light of reality. [btw my pesonal bona fides: 12+ yrs active air force officer, retired af reservist, 23+ yrs as u.s. diplomat.]
July 21st, 2005 at 10:53 ami’m a liberal, registered as a democrat. i’m opposed to abortion, but i’m also pro-choice. what?? it’s none of my business, period. abortion is a medical decision that should involve the woman, her doctor, and her God. it’s not up to us as a society to judge the women. isn’t it strange that the religious right who place so much trust in God, can’t step back and let him do HIS job. but let’s face it campers, the religious right fundies who are obsessed w/ abortion are all about vengeance and retribution. their fondness for “LIFE” seems to dwindle as soon as the child sees the light of day. “we made sure you had the kid…now you’re on your own… and BTW, God loves you, but we can’t stand whores who have unwanted kids, especially if you’re black or brown and unmarried”.
some people are so heavenly minded they’re no earthly good…
July 21st, 2005 at 11:37 amThe ability to make moral and ethical decisions is lost with such simple definitions.
To be pro-life with regards to abortion yet be pro-capital punishment is not contradictory, but rather complimentary. I support cap punishment when there is a crime such as 1st degree murder which warrants the supreme penalty. By saying the only adequate justice for deliberately taking an “innocent” life is by paying with your life is placing the highest possible value on the victims life.
Arguments of our ability to discern the guilty party accurately enough are another level of the discussion, but the basic premise is not invalid.
July 21st, 2005 at 11:47 amRE: Editors of the American Federalists Journal posting 50:
Check out their site, they feature assorted intellectual high water marks for the right, i.e., such editorials as:
“The Left doesn’t support the troops and should admit it”
“Why Democrats will smear any conservative court nominee”
and links to such constructive articles like
“Democrats Are the Bad Guys – A Refresher on Why it is Better to be Republican”
July 21st, 2005 at 11:55 amBorn free, how is the war an act of agression again?
As you know from you extensive military background, this is not the same kind of enemy.they are not in an isloated area…we don’t know where the hell they are but we do know thay want as many innocent Americans dead as soon as possible.
Saddam and UBL have ties and mutual intersets in our demise.
The problem, to protect our country, has got to be rooted out or else it spreads,
The whole thing has to be immobilized.
The other topic: You can’t be “pro-life” and “pro choice”,
July 21st, 2005 at 12:00 pmThat’s a convenient and easy way to describe that you are neither, really.
“Innocent” Americans? Turning a blind eye to the atrocities that continue to be committed in the name of America doesn’t make Americans innocent, it just makes Americans ignorant.
To protect our country, we need to first protect our borders and stop treating the middle east like a laboratory for experiments in democracy. Freedom isn’t free, and it doesn’t have much value when you try to give it away.
July 21st, 2005 at 1:11 pmIn theory, the war in Iraq is an act of liberation. In practice, the war in Iraq is an act of aggression because we have killed so many civilians ostensibly for the good of their own country. Too many dead civilians are undermining our best intentions.
July 21st, 2005 at 1:40 pmborn free,
actually the war was not illegal. on the face of international law, the invasion was illegal. however, it is not for several reasons.
1. if a law cannot be enforced, it isn’t the law. nobody will ever be able to prosecute the united states for liberating iraq, nor could anybody stop the united states from liberating iraq.
2. there is precedent for attacking countries without having security council approval, notably, Bosnia and Kosovo. NATO attacked Yugoslavia illegally as well, since the U.N. did not sign off on it. furthermore the U.N. legitimized the attacks afterwards by going into Yugoslavia itself. the same has been done in Iraq.
3. international law is what saddam hussein used to kill people. he had the sovereign right, under international law, to kill people because of their skin color, religion, or political views.
5. it is also illegal under international law to overthrow goverments because they suppor war or human rights crimes.
6. China and Russia, two non-democratic countries have veto power over Security Council decisions which limits what the Security Council can do, like stop human rights and war crimes.
bottomline is is that international law doesn’t exist in certain areas, like when a democratic country in coalition with other countries overthrows a human rights abusing regime, when it has the power to do so.
so america and the other countries broke no law, since what language they violated could no be enforced, and because of the dubious character of the security council to begin with (not being a democratic body).
July 21st, 2005 at 1:42 pmWhat an idiot! This response is only used to demonstrate the below statement:
#139 “…if a law cannot be enforced, it isn’t the law.”
That is not even remotely true! Duh.
“…he had the sovereign right, under international law, to kill people because of their skin color, religion, or political views.”
Um, go read the UN Delcaration of Human Rights… and then come back to defend that statement! http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html
TO EVERYONE ON THIS THREAD:
July 21st, 2005 at 2:18 pmPlease ignore peope like Lyle and Ed. These are nothing mroe than Trolls and should not be given the respect of your attention. How do you know they are trolls? Simple, they do not use logic or reason in their posts. They only use rhetoric and lies (see above) to incite people. Do not take the bait!
Good call Jim.
July 21st, 2005 at 3:39 pmMindo: don’t know what you’re smokin but it sounds like you think the 911 murders of innocent, yes innocent, Americans was justified.
Is your head lodged firmly in your anus, too?
Mindo:civilians are lost in every war.
July 21st, 2005 at 3:52 pmShould we have fought NONE of them?People like you sound don’t want us protecting our borders…ew…”we might offend someone”
We can’t all sit around stoned and hope we are safe while blogging criticisms because some people have the gonads to protect our country.
Jim,
Saddam Hussein most definitely committed human rights crimes and war crimes, yet nobody punished him or brought him to trial for his alleged crimes. why? because of his sovereignty (protected by international law) and the fact there is no enforcement agency.
international contributed to Saddam Hussein’s abuse of people. that’s a fact. i mean it is great that international customary law says Saddam broke the law by killing people, but it didn’t stop him from doing it and he was never punished for breaking the law.
the law must have consequences and much of international law does not have consequences.
you need to think about how the world works.
July 21st, 2005 at 6:01 pmHow did we get on the war? Wasn’t this a thread about Robert’s wife?
July 21st, 2005 at 6:36 pmBlame the trolls…
Sara-
July 21st, 2005 at 7:02 pmI think it got here because GW’s appointment is being looked at as an opportunity to slam whatever he did/does/is thinking/or is about to think.
Robert’s appointment is sound whether you like his wife’s affiliations or not.
Ron wrote: “As far as I know, abortion is something that has been around for many thousands of years. That’s all I need to know.”
Your comment is all *I* need to know. Try thinking (gasp!) and you’ll realize that if you think everything that’s been around for thousands of years is a good thing, you also need to be pro-choice for: theft, murder, rape, child molestation, slavery, genocide. Evidently, these are the things you stand for. Nice.
July 21st, 2005 at 7:10 pmI am appalled at Lyle’s statement that since international law cannot be applied to the United States, it just doesn’t exist. This is merely another way of saying that might makes right. Does the right now support international anarchy?
July 21st, 2005 at 8:21 pmRepublican women with Adam’s apples?
Perhaps. But, I won’t even mention the physical attributes of Dem. Senator, gnome Barbara Mikulski Or Janet Reno whose masculinity is legendary.
I thought the the Democratic party was the inclusive, we love everybody (especially at election time) party? You don’t sound too tolerant to me.
And, you wonder why you lose elections? Hypocrites!
July 21st, 2005 at 9:21 pmWe know that Rove, et al will not go to jail for perjury. Just ask “I did not have sexual relations with that woman” Clinton. He certainly is an expert on lying under oath. Ooops. We’re not supposed to mention that one are we. Demoncrats have very selective memories.
July 21st, 2005 at 10:56 pmSo, Mrs. Roberts belonged to a conservative pro-life feminist group. So what?
I wonder how many of the Dem wives belong to NOW (the Nasty Organization of Women — or is it the Organization of Nasty Women?).
Since when is a Supreme Court Nominee’s qualification depend upon his/her spouse’s political activities?
July 21st, 2005 at 11:01 pmjack,
world politics IS anarchy or anarchic. if international law applied to the United States, somebody would have stopped the United States from invading Iraq.
regardless though, like i previously wrote, precedent has been set for lawfully attacking countries without getting the security council’s approval: bosnia and kosovo.
i am proud the U.S. liberated the Iraqi people from Saddam.
July 22nd, 2005 at 12:06 amThe wacks are on the left. Leftist freaks care about nothing but themselves. The object to anything decent raises the conscience of Americans. The leftists are hypocrites. Hitler would have loved the left in America….Stalin too.
July 22nd, 2005 at 7:53 amLife is beautiful –
If you want to tell people that their heads are lodged in their anus, why don’t you take it to the yahoo discussion boards? Name-calling is the preferred form of argument over there.
July 22nd, 2005 at 9:54 amMindblw:
July 22nd, 2005 at 10:41 amFair enough. Just hard to imagine where your head is when you say”Freedom isn’t free and it doesn’t have much value when you try to give it away.” What the#$%@?
Freedom isn’t free because a lot of evil people want to destroy the freedoms we cherish..(like being able to spend countless hours blogging with people we don’t know about issues that are important) Guess what? they can do that now over IRAQ…..
How does freedom ever lose it’s value? That’s too much to tackle before coffee.
Man, are we off-topic.
The relevancy of Roberts’s wife’s affiliation may or may not be a reflection of his actual beliefs. To me it’s ultimately a nonissue.
His views on conservation, privacy, abortion are worth knowing more about, but is’s safe to say that from hearing tapes of his oratory skills, he should have no problem sailing through congress.
July 22nd, 2005 at 10:44 amWow!
July 22nd, 2005 at 11:06 amGreat point Mindo!
Seems like this dead horse has been beaten enough..
Life is beautiful,
I’m coming from the point of view that for a system of government to have value to the general populace, it has to come from within, not delivered from the outside like a product. Examples include the United States colonials vs. British monarchy, the French people vs. the French monarchy, India vs. the British empire, etc. Democracy in Iraq won’t belong to Iraqis until they kick us out.
I have never read anything specifically detailing bin Laden & Co.’s hatred of freedom outside the fear-mongering of President Bush; bin Laden’s objections have always been based on the U.S.’s constant covert and overt meddling into the politics of foreign countries (And before you’re tempted to turn this into a libs vs. cons thing, I don’t trust Bush anymore than I trusted Clinton — people who scrupulously avoided the military conflict either through their daddy or through college exemptions are not fit to be the Commander in Chief of our military. Hell, Dan Rather spent more time in harm’s way in Vietnam than either of those guys.)
And frankly, a country where the secret service goes to great lengths to insure that only Republicans are allowed at his public appearances is a country that is not as free as you seem to think is.
July 22nd, 2005 at 11:08 amOoops! Now I’VE blown us off topic.
July 22nd, 2005 at 11:14 amhey mike…you seem upset that there wasn’t much of a penalty indexed to BC’s sex lie. so will you apply that standard to rove/libby/bush/cheney? if they committed treason, and perjured themselves, what penalty should they recieve? since so many you wingnuts love the strict construction approach to interpretting the USC, care to guess what those founding fathers would do w/ this gaggle of traitors?
they’d line them up and shoot them, then march off to get a blowjob and later they’d lie to their wives about “having sexual relations”.
you morons absolutely have no sense of proportion. comparing a sex lie to treason?? phu@k_ewe…
July 22nd, 2005 at 12:11 pmI think we got linked by FreiRepublik or something… All this served to do is show the true colors of certain “pro-lifers”…
Dear ReallyBadMovie:
Sure, Mrs. Roberts’s affiliations really don’t matter, unless you’re a right-winger who claims to hate “feminazis” – but willing to take an exception in this case. But do you HONESTLY think Judge Roberts, who is a lifelong corporatist and GOP hack, ardently anti-environment, and extremely dangerous in regard to civil rights and the rights of women aside from abortion… is a SOUND choice?
And you claim hatred of him stems from anti-Bush hatred.
Kindly take YOUR head out of YOUR anus.
July 22nd, 2005 at 12:27 pmI protested Feminists for Life in California once, when I was working for a pro-choice organization there. Here’s what’s good about them: they supposedly promote social issues around motherhood and childcare.
What’s bad about them: I don’t really think using suffragettes like Susan B. Anthony and Elizabeth Cady Stanton as your feminist models is a great idea. While they definitely made contributions to women’s rights in this country, they were also racist and homophobic. Since feminism has EVOLVED in the past hundred-plus years, wouldn’t you want to start looking at other views on reproductive health and choice?
At their rally in 2002, they were so inarticulate and emotional that it was hard to see anything good about their organization. (Not that being emotional is bad; just that when you’re trying to hold a discussion, it sometimes gets in the way.)
July 25th, 2005 at 12:34 pmTechnically, FFL is a pro-choice group… unless you do the Orwell on the word “choice.”
MJ
August 1st, 2005 at 8:48 pmI’m thinking that these various comments are made by very young adults (many still, more likely, teens) who have no concept of what life means. You will eventually grow up and mature in your reasoning. My son (age 18) thinks like you all, as I once did when I was at that impressionable, idealistic age. over 75% of Americans are anti-abortion. You will eventually understand why.
September 14th, 2005 at 1:35 pmAnd quit hiding behind your pseudo-names. Use your real names. What are you afraid of?
September 14th, 2005 at 1:38 pmI believe in Mindy Pilgrim… please dont phuk the pigions!
October 5th, 2005 at 8:19 amLet’s give correct definition:
Anti-abortion equals: —- Love and raise them,
December 4th, 2006 at 6:09 pm—- then we will kill them for you in war.
To SCREAM OR NOT TO SCREAM that is the question.What is next.
February 17th, 2007 at 11:11 pm