A Simple Question
A Simple Question
Way back in 2001, White House press secretary Ari Fleischer went public with a declaration:
While a few [White House] senior aides are free to speak to media organizations if they alert the press office, others “should not talk to the press without authorization — it’s not their job.”
Furthermore, Fleischer claimed that the “policy [predated] Sept. 11, but it has more urgency now. ‘In a time of war, people are more concerned about nobody making mistakes,’ he said.”
So here’s a question: When Karl Rove leaked the identity of Valerie Plame, was he authorized to do so?
If no, then Karl Rove betrayed the trust of the White House.
If yes, and Rove’s actions were cleared through the press office, then the White House betrayed the trust of the American people and our nation’s security.
So, which one was it?
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I would guess that the true answer is “whichever is more politically expedient”
Z.
July 21st, 2005 at 3:14 pmOf course he was.
I predict, once Fitzgerald issues the indictments, we will learn the information on Ms. plame came directly from the EOB.
Cheney is a deranged, vicious pig and his purpose in giving Rove the file on Plame was to go at Ambassador Wilson’s heart.
. . .
July 21st, 2005 at 3:24 pmI’m not going to prejudge this investigation.
And if someone in my white house is indicted, found guilty of a crime, loses all further appeals including the Supreme Court AND fails to get a presidential pardon, then that person will not work in my white house.
July 21st, 2005 at 3:28 pmwell at least that’s more honesty than we usually see out of you dubya.
July 21st, 2005 at 3:42 pmKarl Rove’s Justice
http://www.swingstateproject.com/2005/07/gop_talking_poi.php
July 21st, 2005 at 3:48 pmAnybody who knows anything about Rove, knows he is the attack dog for Bush.
I would agree with #2 in motives.
However, this is a dead issue as no justice will ever be delivered.
July 21st, 2005 at 4:00 pmBush on TAKING THE COUNTRY TO WAR (just a few examples from the Weekly Compilation of Presidential Documents:
“There is no doubt in my mind, as a result of the actions that this
country has taken to defend ourselves, the world is a more peaceful
place. And there is no doubt in my mind, as a result of the actions this Nation has taken to defend ourselves, freedom has a better chance to take hold all across the world.
. . . No, there’s no doubt in my mind that this country can overcome the obstacles that have been put in our way. There’s no doubt in my mind that when we remain strong and diligent–and we will–America will be more secure. There’s no doubt in my mind, as we continue to work hard for the values we believe, people will realize the beauty of freedom and the benefits of freedom.
. . . There’s no doubt in my mind we’ll succeed, because there’s no doubt in my mind we’re the greatest nation on the face of the Earth because of the American people.â€?
5/16/2003
“And there is no doubt in my mind that the military, with every passage of time, will be able to locate any Al Qaida members hiding in this area.�
6/24/2003
“And we based our decisions on good, sound intelligence. And the–our
people are going to find out the truth, and the truth will say that this intelligence was good intelligence. There’s no doubt in my mind.â€?
7/17/2003
“And it’s just going to take a while, and I’m confident the truth
will come out. And there is no doubt in my mind, Campbell, that Saddam
Hussein was a threat to the United States security and a threat to peace in the region. And there’s no doubt in my mind that a free Iraq is important.â€?
7/30/2003
Bush on FIRING Karl Rove:
“I don’t know all the facts. I want to know all the facts.â€?
July 21st, 2005 at 4:02 pm7/182005
Your “simple question” ignores several important facts: First, before Bob Novak and Matt Cooper ever wrote a word about Joe Wilson or his wife, the fact that Wilson’s wife works for the CIA was revealed in “The Nation” by David Corn - based on an interview with Joe Wilson! Second, by his own account, Bob Novak called Karl Rove, and when he [Novak] said he had heard that Joe Wilson’s wife worked for the CIA, Rove replied, “Yeah, I heard that too.” Third, by his own account, Matt Cooper called Karl Rove, and when he [Cooper] brought up Joe Wilson’s claim that his Niger trip was somehow authorized at Dick Cheney’s request, Rove corrected Cooper (accurately) by pointing out, “His [Wilson’s] wife works at the Agency.” Fourth, in any event, Valerie Plame was not, in 2003, and had not been for at least five years, a covert CIA agent. She was openly and obviously a stateside CIA employee - just like thousands of other CIA desk jockies. So nothing that Karl Rove said to Novak and Cooper either injured Valerie Plame or endangered her life or career. The only injury suffered was to Joe Wilson’s credibility - and the only person responsible for that injury was Joe Wilson himself.
July 21st, 2005 at 5:00 pmThurday Show Blogs - Let the Linkage Begin
Between the heat and the thunderstorms, it’s a strange day around here. It’s a challenge to pull together everything for the show and the blog. Enjoy. From the WB42 5:3- Report with Doug Krile.
July 21st, 2005 at 5:05 pmI’m fed up with Rove being shielded by Bush. If GWB had any gumption he’d deal with Rove the way Clinton dealt with Ken Bacon when he was caught releasing personel records to smear people that ran afoul of the administration. That provided a good example for everyone to see about how to deal with someone who made unauthorized, unlawful leaks to the press. If Bush would just follow Clinton’s lead and do to Rove what Clinton did to Bacon this thing would be over with.
July 21st, 2005 at 5:38 pmJFG,
I think you are referring to a misleading AP article which says this:
But at the same time, Wilson acknowledged his wife was no longer in an undercover job at the time Novak’s column first identified her. “My wife was not a clandestine officer the day that Bob Novak blew her identity,” he said.
But why don’t we give you the entire context of his statement:
BLITZER: But the other argument that’s been made against you is that you’ve sought to capitalize on this extravaganza, having that photo shoot with your wife [in the January 2004 Vanity Fair magazine], who was a clandestine officer of the CIA, and that you’ve tried to enrich yourself writing this book and all of that.
What do you make of those accusations, which are serious accusations, as you know, that have been leveled against you?
WILSON: My wife was not a clandestine officer the day that Bob Novak blew her identity.
BLITZER: But she hadn’t been a clandestine officer for some time before that?
WILSON: That’s not anything that I can talk about. And, indeed, I’ll go back to what I said earlier, the CIA believed that a possible crime had been committed, and that’s why they referred it to the Justice Department.
If you don’t understand what Wilson meant, take some time to think about it. If you think Plame was outed before Novak outed her, you are simply wrong.
http://mediamatters.org/items/200507150003
July 21st, 2005 at 5:44 pmOn his website Corn says otherwise.
July 21st, 2005 at 5:53 pmThis is an incomplete list of folks who have publicly supported Karl Rove and/or dismissed the CIA as putting too high a regard on Plame’s classified status. I email them frequently to express my concern with WH behavior.
Rep. King, Peter (R-NY-3rd)
July 21st, 2005 at 5:57 pmSen. Hutchison, Kay Bailey (R-TX)
Sen. Cornyn, John (R-TX)
Sen. Coleman, Norm (R-MN
Rep. Blunt, Roy (R-MO-7th
Sen. Graham, Lindsey (R-SC)
Adrift: I am not relying on an AP story, and I certainly am not relying on any Blitzer interviews of Joe Wilson. Given the extent to which the Bipartisan Senate report has already debunked Joe Wilson’s claims, Wilson is the least credible man in DC right now. In any event, with respect to Novak and Cooper I am referring to their respective personal accounts of the conversations they had with Karl Rove. In both cases, they initiated the calls - not Rove; they brought up Joe Wilson and his wife - not Rove; and they sought to confirm their existing stories with Rove - rather than Rove trying to “leak” stories to them. With respect to David Corn, he can say anything on his website, but I think he doth protest too much. The fact is that his story came out before either Novak’s or Cooper’s, and in it he and Wilson made it very clear that Wilson’s wife worked for the CIA. In addition, Wilson’s and Plame’s friends and neighbors all confirm that they knew she was working for the CIA. It simply was not a secret in any sense of the word. So the objective evidence - all of it - favors not only Rove’s innocence of any criminal wrongdoing, but also of any malicious diclosure of classified or confidential information. To interpret the factual record any other way requires delusional, almost “Elvis lives” thinking.
July 21st, 2005 at 9:32 pmJFG,
The senate did not debug Wilson’s claim, in fact they found that his conclusion was correct and the document was a forgery. You listen to too much Limbaugh, your command of facts are as bad as your fellow progandists.
What Wilson is ‘debunked’ on typically is that they claim he said Cheney sent him, whereas he sad the ‘Office of the VP’ had asked for this information to be validated and that’s why he went. In light of the fact Cheney clearly knew this document was a forgery, it’s a pretty irrelevant fact…
July 21st, 2005 at 11:12 pmElvis DOES live!
July 22nd, 2005 at 11:42 amRyan: I suggest you go back and read the Senate report. The allegedly “forged” document was not even available to Wilson at the time of his Niger trip - thus, he could not have seen it, and he lied when he claimed to have done so. In addition, according to the report, the information Wilson brought back from Niger did more to bolster than to discredit the original conclusion of British Intelligence (upon which the President relied) that Saddam tried to buy yellow-cake. The Brits, by the way, have conducted their own thorough inquiry into this matter, and they stand by their original intelligence and resulting conclusions. So there you have it: Joe Wilson is a proven liar, according to the bipartisan findings of both a conservative American government and a liberal British government. But, hey, who are you gonna believe, Ryan - them or Elvis?
July 22nd, 2005 at 3:08 pmPS to Ryan: By the way, when someone presents you with a factual argument, it discredits your counterargument to drag the bogeyman (in this case, Rush Limbaugh) into it. Facts are facts, and they can be mighty stubborn - but whining about Mr. Limbaugh won’t change them.
July 22nd, 2005 at 3:14 pmJFG, you are wrong.
Your information about David Corn being the first to out Valerie Plame is patently false and grossly misinformed. Novak’s column came out on July 14th, 2003. David Corn’s article came out on July 17th, 2003. It’s a very simple thing to check. Here’s a link where Corn explains it himself and dissects Cliff May’s duplicitous assertion. If you refuse to believe what Corn says because he is a liberal journalist then your mind is in need of some expansion: http://www.davidcorn.com/2005/07/the_rove_scanda_1.php
July 22nd, 2005 at 4:46 pmClandy, since integrity should lie (no pun intended) at the heart of this debate, let me say that I stand corrected as to the dates of the Novak and Corn articles - but not as to the substance of my charge. David Corn was far more specific that Bob Novak about the alleged covert atatus of Joe Wilson’s wife. Novak merely described her as “an Agency operative” on WMD (which she was, albeit only at her desk in Langley); it was Corn who first explicitly described her as “an undercover CIA officer” - and he did so based entirely on his interview with Joe Wilson himself! Now, please have the integrity to address the multiple material falsehoods in Wilson’s op-ed and his later statements: that his mission was authorized by the Vice-President’s office (it wasn’t); that his wife had nothing to do with his appointment (she did); that he found no evidence in Niger that Saddam tried to buy yellow-cake (the CIA, the British and the Senate Intelligence report all disagree); and that he saw the so-called “forged document” (it wasn’t even remotely available for him to see at the time of his mission). Clandy, Joe Wilson may have done some fine things in his life. He may even have risked his own life to save others. But in this matter he has shown himself to be a scoundrel and a liar, who risked his own reputation, and whatever was left of his wife’s CIA career, in a partisan attempt to undermine a president with whom he disagreed. He failed miserably, without any assistance form Karl Rove. End of story.
July 23rd, 2005 at 3:28 pmJFG,
In Corn’s rebuttal to Republican charges that he outed Plame, he explains his simple deductive reasoning. Novak calling her an “operative”, which any smart person would translate as “agent”, led to his conclusion and he has said again and again that this info did not come from Joe Wilson. So strike that lie about Joe Wilson.
Also, Corn’s “interview” with Wilson was far less substantive than you suggest. It’s tantamount to saying a three minute conversation on a street corner is an “interview.” Wilson has been a patriot working on behalf of this nation for decades. He’s well aware of the minefields encountered with a few loose slips of the lips. As the husband of Plame, he was the second to the last person who would benefit from blowing her cover, Plame being the first. Novak started the ball rolling in the media. The people who spoke to Novak, Cooper and Miller, leakers who were all members of the Bush administration, are guilty of stoking the engine’s fire. They willfully initiated actions that have harmed our national security. But as usual with Bush supporters, you never attack the snake’s head, you always go after the tail.
There would be no scandal and no damage to our covert abilities if Bush’s people did not purposely engage in a vendetta against Joe Wilson. This is a FACT.
It changes absolutely nothing if Plame recommended her husband for the job. Not one thing. Think about it. If her superiors asked, why wouldn’t she recommend a man who had years of diplomatic experience in Africa, the man she trusted most? Plame did not have the power to okay Wilson for the trip. Only her CIA superiors had that power. They agreed with the recommendation and sent Wilson. It has zero importance who first put Wilson’s name in the hat.
We have seen the Bush administration manipulate and redact facts from scientific documents, produced after years of study and testing, because these studies and any legislative outgrowth will hurt their corporate allies. This has happened time after time with this administration. They attack an empirical study concluding that some event or some chemical or some pollutant is harmful to Americans, distorting it so brutally that the danger becomes a positive. Bush remains an embarassing holdout concerning global warming, and why? Because accepting global warming requires action that will hurt his corporate allies. Go to Alaska. See homes sinking because of the melting permafrost. Global warming is real. It is happening. But Bush keeps denying its cause or its severity. For God’s sake, even many of these same corporations acknowledge what Bush wont.
So you have an administration that hears only what it wants to hear and that manipulates facts to fit their agenda. Opening old growth forests to logging, which eradicates biodiversity, is called Healthy Forests, failing to acknowledge that natural burn cycles are necessary for that forest’s full regeneration. Undermining anti-pollution laws is called Clear Skies. You can produce any Bush administration statement or document you want sticking to the claim that Saddam tried to procure yellow-cake. It doesn’t change the fact that they have NO proof of this. It doesn’t change the fact that the document was proven a forgery.
It doesn’t change the fact that Wilson was right. It doesn’t change the fact that Rove and all wiped out an avenue of imtelligence about our enemies solely to discredit a patriotic American. In any book, what these rats did to Wilson and Plame and down the line to all other operatives was flat out treason. And I thought Republicans were doing everything to protect our nation. Tell me, how did Rove’s leak help the fight against terror?
July 23rd, 2005 at 7:14 pm[…] So at this slightest whiff of evidence that information was being leaked, President Bush pulled classified intelligence access for 92 senators. There was no ongoing criminal investigation nor was there evidence that all the members who had their access limited had leaked information. And now he refuses to hold Karl Rove and Scooter Libby to anywhere near the same standard, despite confirmation of their involvement in the leak of an undercover CIA agent. […]
July 26th, 2005 at 12:31 pm[…] So at this slightest whiff of evidence that information was being leaked, President Bush pulled classified intelligence access for 92 senators. There was no ongoing criminal investigation nor was there evidence that all the members who had their access limited had leaked information. And now he refuses to hold Karl Rove and Scooter Libby to anywhere near the same standard, despite confirmation of their involvement in the leak of an undercover CIA agent’s identity. […]
November 12th, 2005 at 7:40 pm