More Thoughts On Enjoying Minority Party Status
More Thoughts On Enjoying Minority Party Status
A few additional thoughts about the lack of attention and respect given to the Karen Hughes hearing yesterday
A number of Democratic members on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee had previously indicated their interest in pursuing the leak investigation and holding the leakers accountable. But while the Democratic Policy Committee held a public relations hearing to publicize the importance of the matter, members of the Foreign Relations committee missed a huge opportunity to get a senior Bush adviser who was intimately involved in the events surrounding the leak to speak on-the-record, under oath.
Even if senators were not interested in probing the leak or examining Hughes’ involvement in the manipulation of pre-war Iraq intelligence, they at least had an obligation to show up and question the next Under Secretary of State for Public Diplomacy about an issue extremely vital to our long-term national security: building friends and allies around the world, particularly the Muslim world.
There is a real concern that the Bush administration’s approach to solving our diplomacy problems is simply to craft a better catch-phrase, rather than make substantive adjustments in policy. Hughes’ two predecessors, Margaret Tutwiler (a former press secretary to James Baker) and Charlotte Beers (a former ad executive), signaled the administration’s approach: it’s all about marketing a message. Hughes’ nomination appears to be another step in that direction. But as a Rand Corporation paper on public diplomacy stated, “Misunderstanding of American values is not the principal source of anti-Americanism.” The study concludes that “some U.S. policies have been, are, and will continue to be major sources of anti-Americanism.” Does Hughes agree? We don’t know.
Since Tutwiler’s departure from the Public Diplomacy post in June 2004, the position has remained vacant. In those 13 months, country after country has pulled out of the coalition in Iraq and world opinion of America has plummeted. Thus, it was even more important to get Hughes on-the-record about her specific ideas for changing course. The AP reported about the hearing, “The session barely delved into what Hughes will do about turning around anti-American sentiment in the world.”
Democrats on the committee have spoken forcefully in the past about the need to readjust our strategy on global diplomacy:
Sen. Joseph Biden (D-DE): “It will require a sustained public diplomacy strategy to explain our policies to the world and to debunk the myths and lies our enemies spin about America’s intentions.” [Speech at National Press Club, 9/9/03]
Sen. John Kerry (D-MA): “I will launch a new era of public diplomacy to explain our policies to the world and to combat lies and distortions about America.” [2nd Presidential Debate, 10/20/04]
Sen. Christopher Dodd (D-CT): “The term ‘Cowboy Diplomacy’ could never be applied to any past foreign crises with the same meaning that the Iraq War brings. The World rallied to our side following the 9/11 attacks in 2001. In two short years public opinion around the world has turned against the US. Our unilateralism has squandered the opportunity to take the world’s support and mold it into effective multilateral action against international terrorism or any number of other difficult issues.” [Speech at policy conference, 10/21/03]
These and other senators missed an opportunity to make their case about an alternative approach for building friends and maintaining allies to create a safer world with fewer enemies.
The only committee members who cared to show up were Sen. Dick Lugar (R-IN) (who as chairman is required to attend) and Sen. George Voinovich (R-OH), who after having made a courageous stand against John Bolton’s nomination has shown that he is sincerely interested and concerned about America’s opinion in the eyes of the international community.
The last thing to note is that the media had fully expected senators to grasp the opportunity to “grill” Hughes.
“Hughes today heads to Capitol Hill, where the Senate Foreign Relations Committee will grill her on how she plans to manage the challenge.” [Atlanta Journal Constitution, 7/22/05]
“Democrats plan to grill Bush confidant Karen Hughes about leak-case in her confirmation hearing for State Department public diplomacy post…” [WSJ, 7/22/05]
In the coming days, we’re likely to hear senators explain their absences by highlighting previous engagements or conflicting schedules. It was a Friday afternoon with no votes expected in the Senate; clearly, it was a good time to leave town. But senators shouldn’t forget their foremost duty to represent their constituents and work towards implementing good policy — and challenging bad policy. So even if senators were not interested in examining the leaking of classified information, on an issue so important as repairing America’s image through global diplomacy, it was depressing to learn that too many senators were missing in action.
Topic Cloud
ArchivesBlog Roll
The dems (along with republicans) have been bombarded with letters and e-mails to impeach. If they do what is being demanded of them then who Bushie puts on his staff is nill.
They will be fired anyway so who cares who Bushie hires to ruin the country. They won’t have enough time to do it.
July 23rd, 2005 at 12:29 amif Karen Hughes were a staff director for the republicans when they were in the minority, and Bob Shrum or James Carville was testifying for some secretary post, what do you think she’d do? rip them to shreds
July 23rd, 2005 at 12:41 amYou would do much better to highlight the remarkable testimony to come out of today’s “public relations hearing” from former intelligence officers.
You made your point with the earlier post on this subject. Enough.
July 23rd, 2005 at 12:57 amSergeant Benderman refuses to go to Iraq and kill children and so gets court-martialed and probably imprisoned, while Senator Biden refuses to stay on Capitol hill and grill Karen Hughes and enjoys a long weekend. To paraphrase Edward Abbey: J. Edgar Hoover, J. Paul Getty, J. Bracken Lee, J. Biden–you can always tell a shithead by that initial initial.
Karen Hughes, if she’s clever, and she probably is, will try to use the same PR technique on the world that has worked so well here at home: sell the sizzle and not the steak. Convince people that _______ (fill in the blank with poll results) is more important to them than a living wage, clean air, proper nutrition, education and health care. And I don’t expect that any senatorial questions would’ve changed that one iota.
Having said that, it would be interesting to hear what “America’s intentions” really are out of the mouths of Hughes, and Biden, and Kerry. Hold on to your wallets and your children, though, when the elite reveal “our” intentions.
July 23rd, 2005 at 1:24 am[quote]Sen. John Kerry (D-MA): “I will launch a new era of public diplomacy to explain our policies to the world and to combat lies and distortions about America.� [2nd Presidential Debate, 10/20/04][/quote]
Maybe what’s really needed is substantive policy changes and not more “explanations.” Folks around the world can already see what we’re doing and we’re acting like assholes.
July 23rd, 2005 at 9:30 amIf there are folks that are just joining the “Wow, this adminstration is corrupt, loaded with war criminals and destroying American democracy” party, I’d like to say welcome, and you have a lot of catching up to do.
As I think back on what has transpired since 9/11 it is truly dizzying to recall all of the lies and harm that this adminstration has perpetrated on all of us, with our own tax dollars. What they’ve done in Iraq in our name (and with our tax $’s), how they’ve shown at every opportunity that their fiscal policies are about further widening the gap between rich and poor, which essentially adds up to stretching the middle-class to the breaking point. They want nothing less than complete destruction of New Deal programs in order to force the privatization of every service, every program, and in short everything that our government has done over the last two generations to make life better, more manageable for its citizens. I suppose this is what Republicans have always stood for (and why Democrats had been in the majority for so long) but the consolidation of media and the elimination of the Fairness Doctrine (thanks to the Gipper) has allowed Big Media to put private interests before its duty to democracy and the results have yielded a badly misinformed public. We should all be screaming for the return of the Fariness Doctrine.
We should also not let our elected officials rest until they can guarantee us that all of our votes are being counted, that no group of citizens is allowed to be misled or disenfranchised on election day and that paper receipts are standardized on all electronic voting machines.
Until we get our media back, until we have reliable elections and until the MAJORITY of elected Democrats start to separate themselves from the greedy insider status that inflicts the Joe Biden’s of the party, we have no chance to defeat the cancer that is today’s Republican party.
Keep fighting!
July 23rd, 2005 at 10:51 amJay, mainstream media is dead.
The 75% majority proves it.
Internet broadcasts, satelite radio and podcasts are the todays media.
July 23rd, 2005 at 11:07 amSusan, the 75% majority of what?
Internet broadcasts, satellite radio and podcasts may be the wave of the future (and I know they’re catching on fast) but I’d be willing to bet that the % of American citizens that get their news from any of those sources if very small, I’m guessing less than 15%. We need the MSM to be accountable to democracy first.
July 23rd, 2005 at 11:14 amMilquetoast Democrats Strike Again
Bush’s approval ratings are lower than they have ever been, but congressional Democrats just can’t seem to absorb that fact. What are they waiting for?
July 23rd, 2005 at 11:23 amThink Progress tells the sorry story of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee meeting…
I meant the 75% who want answers to Plamegate.
If the mainstream media isn’t reporting Plamegate, where did the 75% get their info about it?
For the record, I never watch television news. I get my news from the internet which does include newspapers.
I’m asuming you meant television as mainstream.
July 23rd, 2005 at 11:49 amJay, I do a radio broadcast and rebroadcast on the internet.
My stats show that I get more listeners via the internet. I have listeners from all over the country and the U.K. My radio broadcast only reaches a Chicago audience. My next type of broadcast will be via podcast.
July 23rd, 2005 at 11:54 amFirst, these posts are great. A big THANK YOU to the posters.
July 23rd, 2005 at 12:06 pmSecond, I know that MSM (mainstream media) is widely used but it’s a MiSnoMer. It’s really CM — corporate media. Newspapers, TV and newsmagazines are horizontally and vertically owned by large corporations who are totally integrated into the military-industrial complex. NBC is owned by General Electric, for example, and GE is a major “defense” (another misnomer) contractor. There’s nothing mainstream about them. They either go along with the M-I complex or they’re out on the street. Look at the DOD transcripts of Rummy’s “press conferences” (misnomer #3) and you’ll never see a question like: Secretary Rumsfeld, why are we spending billions of dollars and countless lives defending a Muslim Fundamentalist Regime, allied with the Axis of Evil, which in their new constitution denies basic human rights to people?
Corporate media isn’t dead by a long shot. Newspapers may be in trouble, but newsmagazines are doing well and I believe that most people still get their “news” (misnomer #4) from the boob tube. The only way to kill corporate media so-called news, entertainment really, is to throw out our TVs and that isn’t going to happen. (We don’t have a TV, but most people do.)
We do need to hear “explanations” from our representatives (misnomer #5), not only to force them to explain themselves but to kick-start a debate on the things Jay mentions. Chances are slim, however, what with Willie Horton and gay marriage and terrorism and all the other “major issues” (misnomer #6).
I agree with what you say Don, but I guess my point is, to get the facts you must look to other places than mainstream/corporate media.
Yes, there will always be folks who accept television and magazine propaganda as news.
Progressives on the other hand look for facts and find them elsewhere. And there are a lot of progressives in this country.
July 23rd, 2005 at 12:15 pmJust because somebody is a Republican doesn’t mean they’re evil or wrong with America. You may disagree with them, but that’s no reason to act the fool and belittle them just cause you don’t like them.
Use your heads Democrats; you don’t attack people just because you’d like to attack them. Most people like yellow labs to pit bulls. Be smart Democrats.
July 23rd, 2005 at 12:23 pmSusan,
I’m so thankful for the internet, without it the truth would have NO forum. In densely populated regions (BosWash, ChiPitt, SanSan megalopolis’) the internet reaches a much higher % of the people (and I’m not making any judgements about rural America) but in order to reach ALL AMERICANS, at this point TV and radio are our only hope. It’s a tough pill but if we can’t fix the mainstream media we can’t turn this ship around and democracy will not only be dead with no chance to resuscitate…it’ll be in the coffin with dirt on top.
July 23rd, 2005 at 12:27 pmLyle, can you be more specific? The Republicans that are in charge are tearing our democracy apart, they’re dividing the country with their wedge issues, they’re lying to the people and defending the indefensible in the name of their party and at the expense of democracy. This is not blind partisanship our unsubstantiated accusation, these guys have done a tremendous amount of damage (and nobody is letting the Dems off the hook here…they’ve allowed it to happen with makes them, accomplice) and the evidence is everywhere.
July 23rd, 2005 at 12:32 pmThe U.S. Census Bureau projects there are 296,694,393 residents in the U.S. today.
The estimated internet usage in english (includes english speaking areas other than the U.S.) is aproximately 287.5 million users.
These stats tell me that the intenet is a major news source in America.
July 23rd, 2005 at 12:44 pmWe must physically remove them.
July 23rd, 2005 at 12:55 pmIt is the only way.
It is way past due.
We must unite, by the millions.
WE NEED A LEADER.
Follow your own advice Lyle. Perhaps slamming Libs and Dems the last ten+ years wasn’t appropriate after all, since turnabout is fair play, right?
Now we are in the position to call a turd a turd, even with a pretty blossom on it. Sit back and enjoy eating your crow.
And by the way, get ready for the next round of images of torture from within Abu Graib. BushCo doesn’t want them released, but they will get out, one way or another, and the rest of the world will not be pleased regardless of the BushCo spin machine.
Get ready.
July 23rd, 2005 at 1:06 pmHere’s a taste…
July 23rd, 2005 at 1:09 pmhttp://www.ccr-ny.org/v2/reports/report.asp?ObjID=imOUU2rj8m&Content=608
What Lyle is refusing to comprehend is that many republicans are dissing Bushie now. Heck the guy thats prosecuting Rove is a republican.
We’ve come a long way baby!..You are alone with the extremists now Lyle.
July 23rd, 2005 at 1:11 pmThanks for the update skid. I like this particular quote because I feel that it is our right to know how we’re being represented….
Barbara Olshansky, Deputy Legal Director of the Center for Constitutional Rights, stated, “The public must be informed of what is being done in our name. It is this Administration that has put our troops at risk and caused world-wide anger by fostering policies that promote torture and refusing to hold those responsible publicly accountable.�
July 23rd, 2005 at 1:17 pmHere is another interesting link provided by Buzzflash today:
http://www.thepoorman.net/2005/06/29/words-to-remember
July 23rd, 2005 at 1:21 pmThanks Jay, this is my favorite…
“Victory means exit strategy, and it’s important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is.�
-Governor George W. Bush (R-TX)
According to some of the pugs around here, the exit strategy is to kill as many innocent people that they believe Hussien to have killed.
Until then, killing is justified because they removed an evil dictator who killed more than they did.
July 23rd, 2005 at 1:28 pmBy BushCo standards, one would think that its OK as long as we detain, torture, and/or kill ONE LESS innocent OR suspect than did Saddam under his rule. The sadistic gap between Saddam, Al’Queda, and the US is closing fast.
July 23rd, 2005 at 1:36 pm“The unreleased images show American soldiers beating one prisoner almost to death, apparently raping a female prisoner, acting inappropriately with a dead body, and taping Iraqi guards raping young boys, according to NBC News.”
http://www.veteransforpeace.org/Rueful_Rumsfeld_050704.htm
Over a year and counting since…
July 23rd, 2005 at 1:49 pmThis is for Lyle, you are losing support from your party every day. There are wise republicans in this country. See…..
Former CIA analyst Larry Johnson used the Democratic Party’s weekly radio address Saturday to reiterate comments he made Friday to a panel of House and Senate Democrats.
At that event, Johnson and others expressed great frustration that CIA operative Valerie Plame’s name was made public. Plame is married to former ambassador Joseph Wilson, a critic of Bush’s Iraq policy.
“Instead of a president concerned first and foremost with protecting this country and the intelligence officers who serve it, we are confronted with a president who is willing to sit by while political operatives savage the reputations of good Americans like Valerie Plame and Joe Wilson,” Johnson said in the radio address.
Johnson, who said he was a registered Republican, said Bush has gone back on his promise to fire anyone at the White House implicated in a leak.
Johnson said he wished a Republican lawmaker would have the courage to stand up and “call the ugly dog the ugly dog.”
“Where are these men and women with any integrity to speak out against this?” he asked. “I expect better behavior out of Republicans.”
July 23rd, 2005 at 2:16 pmWow skid, Rummy admits in the article that what hasn’t been released is very horrific.
I never knew he admitted this. Your right, what we’ve seen already is nothing compared to what I just read about.
Didn’t BushCo say that the torture that we saw evidence of were “isolated incidents”?
Whats wrong with our soldiers? I hate to say this but some of the soldiers we have out in Iraq are not honorable Americans. They’re more like the pugs we see here that are declaring a civil war.
July 23rd, 2005 at 2:29 pmWhere else would this adminstration/military send its “buckshot/FBA” mentality volunteers besides interrigation or Operation Human Shield (front line fodder)? These “buckshots” pledge allegiance to BushCo and do the dirty work for them, all the while making it easy for BushCo to sell them out as “a few bad apples” when they get caught.
July 23rd, 2005 at 2:44 pmThese tapes and photo’s are going to be really gross. I’m sure when I look at them I will be reminded of Nick Berg.
What has this country become?..Savages and barbarians.
July 23rd, 2005 at 2:58 pmI have a suspicion a trade was made-to get a decent hearing room for the other hearing they asked the dems to not lay a glove on Hughes. Crappy, yes, but better to have that hearing — Hughes ain’t great but the Plame leak is bigger and Rove is bigger than Hughes.
July 23rd, 2005 at 3:36 pmThese guys are all war criminals. Unfortunately, most of our society, regardless of political affiliation is anethetized with consuming, investing and entertainment much like our Dem politicians. They only seem to respond to fear and shock, and the neo-cons know this.
Need a critical mass of pissed-off people. These photos must be seen by all.
July 23rd, 2005 at 3:39 pmLike to see the R. Limbo spin on these photos. Letting off steam?, recreation?, relieving constipation?, havin’ fun? roto-router? They Had Rape Rooms this is nothing? and the ever present Haw, haw …Haw, as he appeals to those with repressed personal anger.
July 23rd, 2005 at 3:57 pmHughes’ tenure is not a lifetime appointment, like Roberts, on the SC. If the Dems are picking their battles, I will forgive them for this. With respect to putting some difficult questions to Hughes about the Plame affair, perhaps they get the impression, as I do, that Fitz has the matter well in hand, and he can’t be accused of obstructionism for asking the tugh questions.
July 23rd, 2005 at 4:01 pmhttp://www.townhall.com/columnists/robertnovak/rn20031001.shtml
July 23rd, 2005 at 4:49 pmhttp://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2003_09_28.php
July 23rd, 2005 at 5:45 pmwrong link
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2003_09_28.php#001980
July 23rd, 2005 at 5:48 pmUse your heads Democrats; you don’t attack people just because you’d like to attack them. Most people like yellow labs to pit bulls. Be smart Democrats.
Lyle is so stupid he still thinks there is a BIG difference between Republicans and Democrats. And he is telling us to be smart. That’s dumb!
July 23rd, 2005 at 8:13 pmAnd by the way, get ready for the next round of images of torture from within Abu Graib. skidz
No the horror, I just can’t sleep thinking about those poooor terrorists. What a crock of crap. As for the dhimmicrats not showing up, maybe it’s because they know something you don’t, like it would be a waste of time. Propagandists for the enemy, traitors all of you. Get your burka out suzy, cause sounds like you want to wear one. And skidz, you think Republicans hate gays, your buddies will chop off their heads. The ACLU, defenders of NAMBALA, GITMO terrorists, Iraq terrorists, but not America.
July 23rd, 2005 at 11:11 pmThanks for proving my point, fake.
July 24th, 2005 at 12:16 amAnd by the way, get ready for the next round of images of torture from within Abu Graib. skidz
No the horror, I just can’t sleep thinking about those poooor terrorists. What a crock of crap. As for the dhimmicrats not showing up, maybe it’s because they know something you don’t, like it would be a waste of time. Propagandists for the enemy, traitors all of you. Get your burka out suzy, cause sounds like you want to wear one. And skidz, you think Republicans hate gays, your buddies will chop off their heads. The ACLU, defenders of NAMBALA, GITMO terrorists, Iraq terrorists, but not America.
Comment by fake but accurate  July 23, 2005 @ 11:11 pm
You will be next to suffer my wrath.
July 24th, 2005 at 12:57 amKerry Seeks Release of Roberts’ Documents
“We cannot do our duty if either Judge Roberts or the Bush administration hides elements of his professional record,� said the Massachusetts senator who was his party’s presidential candidate last year.
Opening what is expected to be a broader attempt by Democrats to pry loose documents, Kerry issued his statement as Roberts made the latest in a series of courtesy calls on senators in advance of confirmation hearings.
Kerry is not a member of the committee. But he nonetheless injected himself into the debate at the end of a week in which Bush appeared to catch Democrats off guard by picking a court candidate with conservative credentials, yet one with little judicial experience, and thus, little public paper trail.
http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?p=43
July 24th, 2005 at 3:04 amFake, you’re assuming that every man, woman, and child in Abu Ghraib was a terrorist.
You pretty much have the whole racist vibe locked down there.
July 24th, 2005 at 3:05 amDan,
I disagree. I don’t think Bush has “damaged” America and I don’t really think America is “divided”. There are lots of Americans that disagree with one another, but I wouldn’t say the country is divided. I don’t spit on or try to kill people who think liberating Iraq was a mistake.
Basically, Dan, you have problems cause you’re not in power and aren’t getting your way. Republicans were really stupid when they were out of power and now the Democrats are really stupid because they’re out of power. Examples would be describing the Bush administration as a “junta” or “regime”. Describing Gitmo as a “gulag”. Belittling Bush’s intelligence and heart, etc… whatever.
It will be horrible day when all Americans are united under one common ideology. It’s okay for Bush to think that school vouchers are okay. It’s okay for Bush to think that lots of environmentalists have over politicized “global warming”. It’s okay for Bush to think violence is the right way to sometimes deal with thugs. It’s okay for people to go to Church. It’s okay (not my opinion) for people to not want gay marriage or civil unions.
Bush simply represents the people who disagree with you Dan and to them, Bush is protecting them from being damaged by you.
July 24th, 2005 at 5:04 amSusan,
Killing is justified because it is a war. We are fighting men who drive bomb laden cars into public places and kill people. We are fighting men who are fighting us. That means we kill people.
This is not difficult to understand.
July 24th, 2005 at 5:06 amLyle,
An honest question for you. What would you consider the top three to five primary news sources that you rely on? Where do you get your daily news from? Or, what radio show, TV news show and website do you figure are your first choices for news?
July 24th, 2005 at 9:46 amComment by fake but accurate  July 23, 2005 @ 11:11 pm
=======================
Fake but delusional –
Actually, the folks that are currently being looked at as ‘traitors’ are in the White House. But thanks for playing.
Next.
July 24th, 2005 at 10:00 amLyle, we went over there to fight them, not the otherway around, as you would have it seem.
July 24th, 2005 at 3:14 pmKill them all, God will recognize his own.
-Arnald-Amalric, 1208 (when asked by the Crusaders what to do with the citizens of Beziers who were a mixture of Catholics and Cathars)
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:hvMHpKbR3wgJ:www.nobeliefs.com/worst-quotes.htm+Kill+them+all,+God+will+recognize+his+own&hl=en
July 24th, 2005 at 3:19 pmLyle
The same could be said about us. They are fighting us because we drive bomb laden vehicles.
A terrorist is in the eye of the beholder.
And what if you were that Brazilian man being chased by plainclothesed police with drawn weapons, and you failed to stop for fear of your life, and so they justified pumping five bullets into your brain as you lay on the street beneath them.
July 24th, 2005 at 8:39 pmjay,
#1: New York Times
#2: Washington Post
#3: Reuters, and other international newswires
#4: Blogs: Andrew Sullivan, Instapundit, etc. (who all link to international newspapers)
#5: International newspapers: the Guardian, the Telegraph, die Welt, etc.
#6: Arts & Letters Daily
#7: National Review, the Nation, the Weekly Standard, the New Republic and such.
#8: Christopher Hitchens Web
no tv news, although i turn on the tv for “breaking news” coverage for images.
July 25th, 2005 at 1:06 pmLyle, fair enough. I’m not sure I completely understand your disconnect from the truth. To say that you don’t see how the Bush admin has divided the country and you don’t see how they’ve damaged the country is baffling but I respect your opinion.
One other question though, can you name something that this adminstration has done to make this country a better place for us? I can’t think of anything but maybe you can enlighten me.
Thanks.
July 25th, 2005 at 1:29 pmDisconnect from the truth? What’s the truth?
It was arrogant and elitist of you to try to put me in the “he watches FOX news of course he likes Bush”. that’s really insulting and just goes to show the hubris of the Left. now i hate the Left even more.
Bush has done lots of things for this country. things that go unseen everyday. the man has passed countless bills which could all be considered making America a better place. he’s cut taxes. he’s passed education bills and energy bills. he tells the evagelicals to shut up when they say stupid stuff. he doesn’t give Mexicans and Latin Americans illegals a hard time. he helped the steel industry. it goes on and on.
Bush can’t have a “look, i freed the slaves” moment. the best he can do is try to shore up social security.
i like Bush because he has done the right thing after 9/11. i’m glad we overthrew Saddam Hussein. i’m glad the American military is out there in the world helping people. it’s ironic, but “peace” doesn’t help some people in the world, it means they are oppressed.
July 25th, 2005 at 6:47 pmLyle, Abe, Mike whatever;
July 25th, 2005 at 7:15 pmTax cuts are for the rich. Are you rich?
Education bills have hurt more than helped.
Energy bills have allowed more pollution, tax credits for polluters and we pay much more for gas.
Of course he does not give illegals a hard time, he
loves slave wages – more money for contributers.
Grover Norquist wants to eliminate Social Security,
the bastard Bush wants to deep six Social Security not
“shore” up you moron.
- buttensky
Bush did the right thing after 911. He went after OBL.
July 25th, 2005 at 7:23 pmThen he lost his way and attacked Iraq for nother reason than PNAC or so he could be “war” president. Thousands dies so that the evil sonofabitch could be a “war” president.
Idiots like Lyle support him.
-mike
Lyle, first off, you might want to go back and review the thread. I never mentioned FOX news or any other network so before you go shooting your mouth off you might want to have a discussion with that paranoid little voice in your head to sort out your hateful thoughts.
Second, you might want to have a closer look at how our “American military is out there in the world helping people.”
http://www.einswine.com/atrocities/iraq/
It’s sort of a fvcked up way of helping people wouldn’t you say?
Finally, if you believe that the Bush administration has done a good job on the domestic front, I’ve got a bridge I’m looking to get rid of……….
July 25th, 2005 at 9:09 pmJay,
it’s absurd to keep calling me paranoid. i’m clearly not. you don’t have to respect my views, but don’t fool yourself into thinking i’m idiot.
YOU asked me to prove my intellectual credentials to you by asking me where i get my news from. that was arrogant, uppity, and the sign of an intolerant elitist. just because someone has different arguments than you and doesn’t agree with the liberal dogma, doesn’t mean they’re ignorant or stupid.
american military personnel are dying and being mutilated and pyschologically damaged to help the iraqi people. saddam hussein brutalized the iraqi people, just ask human rights watch or amnesty. the american military REMOVED Saddam Hussein from power. the american military is supporting the iraqi peoples’ attempt at a better life, and one not controlled by a tyrant.
the american military protects the south korean people.
the american military protects the japanese people.
the american military protects the taiwanese people.
the american military supports and protects the people in bosnia and kosovo.
genocide stopped in the balkans because of the american military.
the america military is killing and capturing thug islamist who are both our enemy and the enemy of the majority of muslims.
the american military does much for the world and you, and you should respect that.
July 25th, 2005 at 9:28 pmLyle,
I’m sorry buddy but something might be getting lost in the translation. I never insinuated that you were an idiot nor did I ask you to prove your “intellectual credentials”. I only asked where you get your news, no more and no less. Try not to be so defensive and maybe we can have a conversation. If I thought you were stupid I wouldn’t waste the keystrokes.
July 25th, 2005 at 10:23 pmNow, that being said I’m going to tell you why I disagree with you. If our motives to remove Saddam Hussein for killing and torturing his own people were pure, we would be inserting our military in dozens of other countries with similar ruthless dictators. The Bush administration wouldn’t have told us that the reason we needed to preemptively invade was because Iraq posed an imminent threat to the security of the United States. They wouldn’t have told us that Hussein had ties with Al Qaeda (he did not) and they wouldn’t have allowed all of Baghdad to be looted after the invasion with the lone exception of the Ministry of Oil. The Bush adminstrations rationale for war has shifted as each of their claims has crumbled under the weight of truth.
I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of the “Project for a New American Century” but if you haven’t, do some research online. Understand the stated goals, the timelines, the signatories and the opinions on what it would take to impose American hegemony on the world. These guys don’t screw around and they ain’t concerned about the Iraqi people I can assure you. It’s called Imperialism and it’s happening now.
i’m a neo-conservative jay. so i’m quite aware of what neo-cons goals are.
you actually don’t understand what has happened and why. first, just because we invaded iraq doesn’t mean we have to invade other authoritarian governments. we cannot invade everybody. and in some cases invasion makes absolutely no sense. it made a lot of sense with Iraq since we still at war with Saddam Hussein. every week american and british pilots attacked an iraqi anti-air defense installation.
for a good explanation of this read this, if it still works:
http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110006921
second, the war in iraq wasn’t entirely about wmds, at least real wmds. it was simply about messing up the status quo in the middle east, which caused 9/11. we didn’t want saddam to ever have wmd and the only way to solve that was to end him. bush used the wmd line to actually get the support of the world community and get international law on his side. it didn’t work, but he still went ahead with the liberation. why did he use wmds to get the international community behind the war? because you cannot legally invaded a country just because it abuses its people. the u.n. thought saddam had wmd and had warned him about wmd. it was also issue that might have gotten russia and china to support a u.n. supported invasion. the security council must pass off on military interventions, but it’s hard to because of russia and china. china, for example, doesn’t support an intervention into the Sudan.
http://www.slate.com/id/2122395/
that’s a site where Chritopher Hitchens, a leftist sympathetic to neo-conservatism, discusses intervetion.
read all of his stuff at
http://www.hitchensweb.com/
… and you implied i was idiot by questioning what i read. don’t try to run away from that. you don’t have to call somebody an idiot to make it known you think there an idiot. don’t ever ask somebody what they read to figure out why they think the way do, cause it’s insulting.
you’re not the first cliche liberal to do this. it’s a thing you guys trot out as a defense when accosted by somebody like me.
July 26th, 2005 at 12:50 amOK Lyle, up to this point I had given you the benefit of the doubt but after reading that last post….I think you’re an idiot.
Have a nice day.
July 26th, 2005 at 9:31 amhaha… you can’t handle people who don’t conform to your weltanschauung. not a fun life.
July 26th, 2005 at 1:48 pmuse your head and tell me why i’m an idiot. use accuse, but don’t back it up with facts and logic.
kow tow to me.
July 26th, 2005 at 6:58 pm– travel europe
October 9th, 2005 at 6:07 pm– travel
– travel mexica
welcome to our adult dvds adult dvds free shipping
December 7th, 2005 at 3:27 am