Gonzales Raises Questions For Andy Card To Answer
Gonzales Raises Questions For Andy Card To Answer
Writing in the New York Times, Frank Rich highlights a troubling issue that arose from early on in the leak investigation:
As White House counsel, [Alberto Gonzales] was the one first notified that the Justice Department, at the request of the C.I.A., had opened an investigation into the outing of Joseph Wilson’s wife. That notification came at 8:30 p.m. on Sept. 29, 2003, but it took Mr. Gonzales 12 more hours to inform the White House staff that it must “preserve all materials” relevant to the investigation.
On CBS’s Face the Nation, host Bob Schieffer noted that this time gap would have “give[n] people time to shred documents and do any number of things.” Gonzales argued that he asked for and received permission from the Justice Department to wait until the next morning to order White House staff to preserve all documents regarding their contacts with journalists about Valerie Plame. But he did tell one person the night before
SCHIEFFER: Let me just ask you the obvious question, Mr. Attorney General. Did you tell anybody at the White House, get ready for this, here it comes?
GONZALES: I, I told one person, ah, in, in the White House of, of the notification, and, and —
SCHIEFFER: Who?
GONZALES: and immediately — ah, I told the chief of staff. And immediately the next morning, I told the President and, shortly thereafter, there was a notification sent out to all the members of the White House staff.
Check out the video of this at Crooks and Liars.
So the one person who knew that an investigation was underway was Chief of Staff Andrew Card, who also happened to be aboard Air Force One in July 2003 with Ari Fleischer, Colin Powell, and the top secret State Department document that contained the identity of Valerie Wilson. So, did Card tell Rove or Libby or anyone for that matter the night before Alberto Gonzales sent out the email to staff that they would soon be asked to preserve all documents?
On a separate note, Gonzales did an admirable thing on Fox News Sunday this morning. When asked whether he was involved in the leak, Gonzales did not duck the issue nor did he hide behind “an ongoing investigation.” He answered the question directly and has cleared his name for now. He also admitted that he has testified before the grand jury:
HUME: You were in the White House as counsel at the time that investigation was initiated. Have you been asked to testify in this case?
GONZALES: I was asked to testify. This was over a year ago. I did testify before the grand jury, yes.
HUME: And, can you tell us if you at any time were aware of Valerie Plame, either by name or by identification with Joseph Wilson? Were you aware that she was in the CIA? And did you have — and if you were — did you have any idea what kind of work she was doing?
GONZALES: … I had no information regarding Ms. Plame and her role at the CIA.
If the Attorney General of the United States can answer questions on the ongoing investigation, why can’t the White House?
UPDATE: The AP is reporting:
The White House did not immediately respond to questions Sunday about whether Card passed that information to top Bush aide Karl Rove or anyone else, giving them advance notice to prepare for the investigation.
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Where da missing white women at?
July 24th, 2005 at 1:43 pmGreat addition to the most important story (Frank Rich’s piece) of the weekend. thanks.
“he asked for and received permission from the Justice Department to wait until the next morning to order White House staff to preserve all documents regarding their contacts with journalists about Valerie Plame”
It’s fascinating when you locate the exact 12 hours where you can be almost certain that a crime occurred… it’s a grand detective game.
But can records be destroyed without leaving traces?
Hmmmm.
July 24th, 2005 at 1:46 pmMiles, wasn’t that what is now known as “the time of the white smoke” by tourists at the White House?
July 24th, 2005 at 2:21 pmI find it impossible to believe Card would not have told Rove, the glue of the administration, almost immediately.
Given what we now know of Rove’s collaboration with Libby on the Tenet retraction of the ” 16 words,” Rove surely would have communicated with Libby soon, perhaps even before the Pres was notified in the morning (which I don’t contest).
July 24th, 2005 at 2:31 pmI got a missing brown skinned woman. Any takers?
http://kyw1060.com/ news_story_detail.cfm?newsitemid=48018
July 24th, 2005 at 2:36 pmMethinks it is time for a full-fledged congressional inquiry into what these criminals did, especially Card, between the hours Speedy Gonzales told Card and the moment the formal notice from Gonzales went out. And then what did everyone Card told did in the hours in between.
July 24th, 2005 at 2:41 pmAlberto Gonzales as Brutus? Can it be?
July 24th, 2005 at 2:41 pmIt’s amazing what people will say under oath. The timeframes are coalescing into a swamp for bushco.
Curious that this would come out of Gonzales, none the less.
July 24th, 2005 at 2:48 pmThe crime, in this case, would have been the cover-up, because the leak had already occured. That’s why this new development doesn’t coalesce with the Air Force One flight.
July 24th, 2005 at 2:55 pmFinally, we’ve got a break in the Plame story about who said what and when. One has to concede, however, that Gonzales is taking a huge risk by being so frank about this. Does anyone remember the Saturday Night Massacre?
July 24th, 2005 at 3:20 pmNow we know why comerade sKerry could not bother to show up to your all important hearing. Like he has done his whole career, he had something more important to do than his job. It’s fitting he was in his adopted country, france, and as usual he was watching a Texan kick ass and take names, while dreaming about doing it himself.
Kerry Sees Armstrong As a Politician
By JOHN LEICESTER
The Associated Press
Sunday, July 24, 2005; 11:03 AM
SAINT-ETIENNE, France — Sen. John Kerry thinks Lance Armstrong would make a terrific politician _ but fears he’d be running for the other party.
Watching Armstrong during his warmup for Saturday’s time trial, the Democrat from Massachusetts listed the Texan’s winning qualities.
“What’s made him so special at the Tour de France, and as an athlete, is the level of focus, discipline, intelligence, strategic ability, and obviously, his endurance _ his ability to just take it on and go,” Kerry said.
Those qualities would serve Armstrong well in politics, Kerry said. But Armstrong is also friendly with fellow Texan President Bush.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ wp-dyn/ content/ article/ 2005/ 07/ 24/ AR2005072400334_pf.html
Who wants to bet he was in his wifes plane? Clueless loser. Dhimmi.
July 24th, 2005 at 3:31 pmIs this Gonzales getting back at Busch and Gang for not geting the Supreme Court nomination?
July 24th, 2005 at 3:34 pmGonzales said that it was late - after 8:00 pm when he called the White House, and that most of the staff had left for the day. By checking WH logs Fitzgerald would know who was there at the time of Gonzales’ call - AND if anyone returned that night after the calls were made. I think it would be very interesting to know who was in the WH at the time, and who returned shortly afterword.
Dripity,drip.
July 24th, 2005 at 3:45 pmFrank Rich’s essay is amazing and quite damaging to the Bush administration. He succinctly refers to a “pervasive culture of revenge” permeating this White House and at the helm is none other than Karl “Benedict” Rove.
One of Rove’s preferred tactics is smearing an EOB (E.nemy of B.ush) by attacking their sexual orientation.
Nothing would please me more than to see Rove serve time in a Federal prison for leaking Valerie Plame’s name.
He’s a dirtbag.
. . .
July 24th, 2005 at 3:47 pmHey fake but inaccurate,
Who cares.
There is a real story here. Your side tripping does not get to the people who know what is really happening. Go try that BS on a web site filled with mindless ilk of your own kind. You’re a moron.
July 24th, 2005 at 3:53 pmDon’t worry, fake. There plenty of us who know Kerry is a failure.
July 24th, 2005 at 4:05 pmNow that we the public are given solid facts of just what took place the night Gonzales got that all important call, I can almost assure you that the Talking Points for tomorrow (which were probably written 2 years ago for this very point in the investigation) will surely be the “spin” of the new century. I wonder how many moving trucks are out back of the WH right now???
Frankie
July 24th, 2005 at 4:08 pmLong Beach, CA
I guess I’m naive. I would have automatically assumed there would be gaffes on the road to justice consifering the strength of the administration.
July 24th, 2005 at 4:13 pmSpudgeBoy don’t tell me, English is not your first language?
Brian, you are not going to get invited to the flag burnings anymore if you keep thinking for yourself. First you’re antiabortion, now anti-Kerry, if you only hated our enemies more than Bush we would be on to something : )
July 24th, 2005 at 4:25 pmNow let’s say it together, foreign terrorists are not protected by our constitution, but unborn American babies are. This whole Rove thing, I really think you guys are counting your chickens before they are hatched, but thats going to be your dissapointment. Question, do the janitors at CIA HQ have covert status as well?
this desperate spinning warms my heart. “flag-burnings”! “”his adopted country”! hahaha i can smell the pantsborne troll shit from here.!
July 24th, 2005 at 4:32 pmFake, please stop with the irrelevant comments and blatant trolling of other posters. Seriously, comments about first languages, flag burnings, and unborn babies…is that garbage related to anything in this topic?
Now, the big question in this post is how much of the information lost in the twelve hours will be recoverable…but as for the story itself, it probably shouldn’t surprise anyone that Gonzales would handle this situation in a way favorable to the administration.
July 24th, 2005 at 4:32 pmI don’t hate anyone, fake. I do think it is unfortunate that innocent people are caught up in the wars between the Abraham faiths.
July 24th, 2005 at 4:40 pmTime to break out the popcorn, sit back, and watch the show. All the Presidents Men, Part Duh.
July 24th, 2005 at 4:40 pmIf the administration wanted to destroy evidence they probably would have even before the 12 hour window due to the fact that a real investigation seemed inevitable many days prior to this.
July 24th, 2005 at 4:41 pmHate is not good, but it’s useful and it is a human emotion. “Love thy enemy” is for wingnuts. Wingnuts use hate. I wonder if Jefferson took that part out of the Bible? Maybe not, but I do hate the haters, and I am GOD.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Bible
July 24th, 2005 at 4:44 pmAnger is a healthy emotion. Hatred is reliquishing power to the hatee.
July 24th, 2005 at 4:46 pmMaybe we can just burn people who hide their hate and bigotry behind the flag. That’s a better idea. It didn’t really work with witches, but we are running out of fuel on the planet now.
July 24th, 2005 at 4:48 pmAnger is a healthy emotion. Hatred is reliquishing power to the hatee.
Comment by Brian  July 24, 2005 @ 4:46 pm
Thanks, Brian. You are 100% correct.
July 24th, 2005 at 4:49 pmIt was just last week Schieffer jumped out of his skin when Blunt said CIA thought too highly of Plame. Atleast some conservative media is open-eyed.
July 24th, 2005 at 4:50 pmFrom watching West Wing, we know those staffers stay late as a matter of course. That night, they must have pulled a really late one with the shredders.
July 24th, 2005 at 5:01 pmDid Luskin say that Rove learned about WIlson’s wife from someone “higher up”? I’ll buy the popcorn if this turns out to be accurate…
July 24th, 2005 at 5:04 pmcolin powell’s testimony to fitzgerald’s grand jury more than one year ago must have covered the state dept memo that mentioned the name and status of wilson’s wife at the cia, the reference being marked with the letter “s” for top secret, do not reveal. powell showed this memo the next day to bush, rove, et al on the air force one flight they all took to africa. clearly each member of the junta must have read the memo. has powell spilled the beans? he has the motivation since his reputation was totally demolished at the united nations when he was given faulty information about iraq’s weapons of mass destruction. what is the role of colin powell in the investigation? his testimony certainly conflicts with that of the principal suspects.
July 24th, 2005 at 5:23 pmCheck to see how much business the Pizzeria nearest the White House did that night!
July 24th, 2005 at 5:25 pmMatt Cooper, who is married to a demo strategist, is taken at his word? I’m sure he would never lie, LOL. Well, lets put it this way kids, unless you get Bush, and we all know how doubtful that is, Bush pardons all involved : ) Now since plame and wilson were gore supporters, could it be they were the ones playing politics with national security in the first place? By the way, how was the bombing is Egypt Bush’s fault, I’m sure you guys have concocted something by now?
July 24th, 2005 at 5:35 pmFrom watching West Wing, we know those staffers stay late as a matter of course. That night, they must have pulled a really late one with the shredders.
Comment by Hedley Lamarr
Yeah, hell, Westwing. That’s what you base your knowledge of the WH, you’ve got to be joking?
July 24th, 2005 at 5:37 pmFleisher’s press conference [ one of his last,I believe] reveals setting the stage for a denial and twisting of the meaning of Wilson’s findings in Niger. He goes to great lengths to repeat what Wilson REALLY said, etc. This was the beginning of the set up story the administration desperately needed, and ultimately morphed into discrediting Plame and Wilson all at once. Saying she was not a covert agent is really a pathetic dodge. Once a covert agent, always a covert agent despite one’s immediate assignment. It’s all about lots of contacts,trust, secrecy and cover.
Great harm was done, and we will perhaps never know how much, but it wouldn’t take an investigative journalist rookie much to figure this one out.
Lets hope Fitgerald has something before October,as he of course, will run out his time and never be extended. We are really looking at Card,Gonzalez,The Memo, Air Force One and who other than Powell,Rice,Rove,Libby,Cheney,Abrams,Feith,Judy Miller,Karen Hughes,Hadley, and a cast of thousands.
July 24th, 2005 at 5:52 pmAh , Matt Cooper should not be ‘taken at his word’ , but our president cuckoo bananas/George W ‘nukeular’ Shrub , should be ? Fake , you’re nothing but a GOP troll d-bag , that’s trying to run total BS at everyone ( typical Republican jackass) . Wilson and Plame were playing with national security in what way ? Because Wilson legitimately stated that Iraq had no WMD’s , and he was found to be correct ? Is Shrub still looking for them ( with your help, obviously, dipshit) , the way he’s “looking” for Bin Laden ?
July 24th, 2005 at 5:55 pmGo back to GOP.com you sorry sack of crap…..
No offense fake, but it is the lack of truth that makes people stoop to singling out off-topic inaccuracies. What say you to Gonzales and Card? I’m fascinated by your opinion if you have one to give on the appropriate subject.
And for the record, I only wish our government could act with the decisiveness and honor of Aaron Sorkin. Guess I’ll just have to hire him to run my campaign.
July 24th, 2005 at 5:57 pmMatt Cooper, who is married to a demo strategist, is taken at his word?
Mary Matalin, a Republican strategerist who is married to a demo strategist is taken at her word?
July 24th, 2005 at 5:59 pmCan someone please remind me how these morons got into office… and why the morons who voted for them are even allowed to vote?
July 24th, 2005 at 6:00 pmHey Fake, outing a covert agent and destroying ongoing operations is trivial to you huh? Agents may have died already. No big deal though, because your precious messiah had to get his vengeance against a dasterdly truth teller. The whole yellowcake thing was a farce from the getgo.
By the way, I stopped by your whiny blog. Why is it you don’t want any comments? LOL. And I have a tip for you: don’t use the reversed meanings of left and right. If you want to use the classical definition, Bush is a left winger. Those advocating for individual rights, the rule of law and accountablity in government are right wing.
Sorry but that is accurate. Say, why aren’t you in the military?
July 24th, 2005 at 6:01 pmSorry but that is accurate. Say, why aren’t you in the military?
Comment by just pete  July 24, 2005 @ 6:01 pm
Because they don’t allow the mentally retarded into the military …….
July 24th, 2005 at 6:04 pmWhat are the providers of the PDAs (Blackberries) used by the White House, White House staff, DOJ, and RNC? What is on the backups of the providers? What links were on the PDAs? What the common links? What are the communications links on all of these PDAs? What is the Instant Messaging used? What are the recorded messages since this administration ran for election in 2000? How close are all the members to RNC and the election and their contacts during 2002, and 2003?
Who ordered the allowance of the 12 gap? Maybe we need to start connecting the dots, and show who is talking to who and how?
July 24th, 2005 at 6:04 pmFakeButInaccurate,
The Wilson’s were Gore supporters? Given that the only reason you have to say as much is their financial contributions, it would also behoove you in the name of honesty (although I won’t hold my breath given your putrid troll dishonesty you’ve exhibited thus far today) to state that they were also Bush and GOP supporters at the same time.
Got honesty?
Doubt it.
July 24th, 2005 at 6:11 pmMatt Cooper, who is married to a demo strategist, is taken at his word?
Mary Matalin, a Republican strategerist who is married to a demo strategist is taken at her word?
Comment by Cpl. Dwayne Hicks  July 24, 2005 @ 5:59 pm
Heh, was thinking the same thing. Great minds and all….or maybe it’s just those of us who actually use our minds. ;-)
July 24th, 2005 at 6:12 pmFake, why do you hate America?
July 24th, 2005 at 6:19 pmFake, why do you hate the Constitution
July 24th, 2005 at 6:20 pmThere is no defense for this administration and their lying, treasonous, self-serving, unethical and amoral actions. They have not been straight with the public for more than 5 years now, and they sure aren’t going to change. What in blazes has taken the public so long to figure this out? Now, it is very late in the game. The world is in chaos and due, in no small way, to the acts of this White House staff and our free-wheeling Texas cowboy of a president, who never earned an honest dollar or earned an honest merit.
July 24th, 2005 at 6:23 pmThe twelve hours when Gonzales, Card, Ashcroft (and surely Rove) knew that an investigation was coming, giving them time to purge the most damning records is equivalent to the 18 minute gap in the tapes of Watergate.
I can’t believe we impeached a man for his sexual peccadillloes and we re-elected this maniacal moron and his cabal of liars. If anyone deserves impeachment and perhaps imprisonment, it’s this group.
My guess is that soon after the “heads up” from Gonzales that Card told Rove. And Rove and Libby concoted their cover story right then and there now that they knew they needed one. Operation Blame The Media (It was Russert, Novak and Cooper’s fault!) was, thus, born….
July 24th, 2005 at 6:23 pmFake, why don’t you support the troops?
July 24th, 2005 at 6:26 pmMarie,
You have an amen and a hallelujah right here. Damn right on every count.
July 24th, 2005 at 6:27 pmLet’s not forget that besides the 12 hour heads-up he provided on Sept. 29, Alberto Gonzales got the FIRST look at the documents before they went to the Justice Department.
July 24th, 2005 at 6:33 pmAnd let’s not forget the 2 1/2 months before that they gave themselves to tidy up their stories.
And let’s not forget the THREE months after Ashcroft’s investigation started before he figured out he needed to recuse himself and appoint Fitzgerald.
Fake doesn’t hate America, he just had a poor start. He got his first bit of political knowledge from his Good Buddies in the 1980’s when they were driving their 18 wheelers up and down Interstate 5. They filled up Channel l9 of the CB radio band with their never ceasing mindless blather. The name has been changed to Bloggong but the guilty are still identifiable. Don’t bother to respond to him as he will just change channels. Ten-Four Fake
July 24th, 2005 at 6:38 pmMarie,
Well done!
With your logic and my sarcasm they don’t stand a chance.
July 24th, 2005 at 6:41 pmThis whole affair smells so bad, there must be a lot of rotten garbage in the White House. I have to laugh when I read the fact-free Bush lovers criticizing Kerry and other Democrats; they are demonstrating how they are desperate to sling mud in the other direction. They are like kids on the playground taunting “nyah, nyah”. Well, kids, it’s Bush and Cheney, Rove and Card - no one else - who got us into this mess and nobody knows how we can get out.
July 24th, 2005 at 6:46 pmWell, lets put it this way kids, unless you get Bush, and we all know how doubtful that is, Bush pardons all involved : )
There’s your ‘tough on crime’ Republican. What a maroon. In twenty years time, ‘fake’ will be telling its nephews that it opposed Bush all the way.
July 24th, 2005 at 6:59 pmwhat more does the American public need to see that what we have in the whitehouse are nothing but a bunch of liars, cheats & thieves.
peaces, it’s hard work.
July 24th, 2005 at 7:01 pmHey fake but inaccurate,
It is not my problem if you can’t read, you dip shit.
Is that clear enough for you?
Go screw yourself, with a razor barbed stick.
There is a problem with this country and people like you are letting it happen.
July 24th, 2005 at 7:10 pmMeanwhile, back at the polls… Bush’s numbers continue to, well, suck, and largely because His Divine Petulance is losing the independent voters big time. If Bush pardons anybody the independents will flood out the door.
Then watch the rats, fearful of the midterm elections, jump ship. Wow Fake. That leaves two choices: be a lemming or a rat.
I’m sorry, that was unkind. :)
July 24th, 2005 at 7:10 pmHey FakeButInaccurate
Bush is a good argument for abortion.
July 24th, 2005 at 7:11 pmNot even gay-hating, muslim-fearing squirts with their chests bowed out will be able to handle an extended version of this and all the ramifications.
The idea here is to tell the people you would not normally speak with about the things going on in the WH. I have been frequenting a convenience store for many years and not once ever talked with the clerk.
Recently I asked her if she had ever heard of Rove. She said no. I told her about him. And the WH.
When I was in jr. high I used to walk around with my chest bowed out ala Bush. I look back now and the only people I was impressing were other misdirected idiots.
July 24th, 2005 at 7:15 pm“Fake”- AS IN FAKE OUT; who really feels the NEED to respond to such a fake intellectual? Slow news day? It’s already exposed enough ignorance (as in, consistently ignoring conflicting data that might interfere with its carefully molded narrative and world view)to warrant intellectual banishment. Let it molest its own kind. And if it starts humping your leg with irrelevencies, ignore it. It will soon lose interest in playing with itself in public. And we might finally be able to discuss adult topics without interruption from the kennel.
July 24th, 2005 at 7:19 pmHey dano347
July 24th, 2005 at 7:22 pmWhich adult topics would you like to discuss? Hilary and Bill in a cluster f”k with Bush daddy and Bar
Who left the kennel door open?
July 24th, 2005 at 7:24 pmWHo let the dawgs out?
Who? Who Who WHo Who?
Maybe you dano
You think there’s anything intelligent or adult about any of this? You must be the man
July 24th, 2005 at 7:26 pmTreason is as treason does.
I love my country ’tis of thee, sweet land of liberty…
July 24th, 2005 at 7:29 pmOh please dano
get real, stop the theatrics
you think patriotism is a song
it’s no wonder the constitution is being ripped to shreds - with a bunch of dopes standing around singing songs and wanting to have “adult” discussions
our rights and freedoms are being sold out from under us as we speak
July 24th, 2005 at 7:37 pm“So, did Card tell Rove or Libby or anyone for that matter the night before Alberto Gonzales sent out the email to staff that they would soon be asked to preserve all documents?”
This should have be Shieffer’s next question, no? What up with that?
July 24th, 2005 at 7:37 pmYellowElephant,
Abortion should not only be legal, it should be mandatory in some cases, and in the case of DUHbya and grunts it should be retroactive.
July 24th, 2005 at 7:40 pmDid Card tell Rove, or did Rove tell Card, or did LIbby tell ROve and Card, or did Card tell Rove and Libby?
Enquiring minds want to know
Meanwhile more soldiers die in Iraq, the British police shoot dead an innocent man in the London Underground because he wouldn’t stop when plainclothed men starting chasing him down the street with guns drawn.
And all the Brits can say is, gee we’re sorry, and all the msm can say is blame it on the terrorists.
And now the NYPD will have a better cover for their random terrorizing and shooting of people of color - they can now label them terrorists.
The world is just so simple to the middle class white suburban/urban middle of the road liberal/democrat/republican who’s only worry is whether Rove told Card or Card told Rove
July 24th, 2005 at 7:46 pmSilly twits should be treated in the same manner. If it can’t add anything ADULT (AS IN NOT JUVENILE) to the discussion, (fantasizing about the sex lives of former presidents -on par with sodomy jokes - not withstanding), perhaps it will be content to just leave a little puddle in the corner, and leave.
July 24th, 2005 at 7:49 pmsilly twit is right dano
July 24th, 2005 at 7:50 pmBut dano - I think prig is a better word than twit - prig expresses condescension and smugness so much better
July 24th, 2005 at 7:51 pmRemember Rove’s comments:
Karl Rove’s “Understanding of 9/11″, Kristen Breitweiser, 06.23.2005
July 24th, 2005 at 7:55 pmBelow is a URL to Kristen Breitweiser response to Karl Rove. Mrs. Breitweiser was made a widow on 9/11. She is a member of the Jersey Girls who are responsible for getting the independent 9/11 commission created when the Bush administration was against its creation. Her direct response from the heart and should be read by all. As she has stated she is a Republican.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ theblog/ archive/ kristen-breitweiser/ karl-roves-understandin_3103.html
Mr. Rove, the first thing that I would like to address is Afghanistan - the place that anyone with a true “understanding of 9/11� knows is a nation that actually has a connection to the 9/11 attacks. One month after 9/11, we invaded Afghanistan, took down the Taliban, and left without capturing Usama Bin Laden - the alleged perpetrator of the September 11th attacks.
More to the point, Karl when you say, “Conservatives saw the savagery of the 9/11 attacks and prepared for war,â€? what exactly did you do to prepare for your war? Did your preparations include: sound intelligence to warrant your actions; a reasonable entry and exit strategy coupled with a coherent plan to carry out that strategy; the proper training and equipment for the troops you were sending in to fight your war? Did you follow the advice of experts such as General Shinseki who correctly advised you about the troop levels needed to actually succeed in Iraq? No, you didn’t.
18 or was it 19 of the hijackers were Saudi Arabians, so why do the widows of 911 and so many others rely on Afghanistan as the bad guys? Because that’s the only shred they have, because they believed the bs from the admin. The fact is Bin Laden is probably in Saudi Arabia and has probably been there all along. The fact is that most of the hijackers were Saudis. And everybody including the widows of 911 ignore it. It’s like somehow Saudi Arabia has magically disappeared.
July 24th, 2005 at 8:00 pmTreason’s in the air,
July 24th, 2005 at 8:02 pmYou can smell it all around.
The ones who say it’s no big deal
Have their heads stuck in the ground.
When the rats start runnin’
An’indictments are fly’in,
leaks abound, and Hannity’s cryin’
Remember your words, ‘o soldiers
of the fight, for the crow’s mighty tasty
when prepared just right.
Treason’s in the air
July 24th, 2005 at 8:05 pmyou can feel it all around
The treason boat
Ye,
Saudi Arabia hasn’t disappeared. You will find conclusive evidence that the Saudi’s are still alive in the signature blocks of the checks they send to Daddy Bush every month.
July 24th, 2005 at 8:06 pmHow about Gonzales Oath of Office? Where are Republicans even those in elective office not remind and question about their own Oath of Office? Nazis Germany required a Oath of allegiance to the leader and not the nation! Why have we not enforced these people allegiance to the nation and the U.S. Constitution?
Here are some oaths of office every official holding that office must take and honor:
The President’s Oath of Office:
“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”
The Oath of Enlistment (for enlistees):
“I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.”
The Oath of Office (for officers):
“I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the _____ (Service) of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance tot he same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God.”
The FBI:
MISSION
The mission of the FBI is to protect and defend the United States against terrorist and foreign intelligence threats, to uphold and enforce the criminal laws of the United States, and to provide leadership and criminal justice services to federal, state, municipal, and international agencies and partners. The organization with these responsibilities has not always been called the FBI.
How about getting into every elected offical and government offical reminding them of their obligation to the nation in no uncertain terms. Remind them of the treason that they face for voilating that oath.
July 24th, 2005 at 8:07 pmFake, this whole thing goes straight to the character of the adminstration. “Disassemble” and distract all you want, but the FACTS are that the president lied in a state of the union speech (and many other times) about the reasons for going to war, and when Wilson wrote a column revealing this lie, the adminstration lied about Wilson to discredit him and denigrate his character. This is about arrogance, self-righteousness, and abuse of power. It is about moral and ethical bankruptcy. The fact that rove still has a job is unbelievable… but in this administration, he’ll probably get a medal
July 24th, 2005 at 8:07 pmEasy Rider,
July 24th, 2005 at 8:12 pmI like your posts. But these people believe the ends justify the means. And they fancy themselves patriots. When these these folks have the noose around their necks and one fist on the lever they cry hail Bush.
I’d like to ask all the supporters of the national security Democrats as they are now referred to - that includes Hilary and Bill, Kerry, Dean, and Biden -
When my son is drafted to fight the ongoing occupation of Iraq and if my son dies as a result - which Democrat should i curse when I’m handed the folded flag - and when i grab that flag and hurl it in the face of the honor guard as I lunge for the throat of the military commandant in charge of the funeral, and as i pound on the cameras of the mainstream media and give the finger to the country at large. I’m sick to death of what passes for reasoned discourse in the United States of Passivity
All I want to know is - which Democratic representative is going to answer for my son’s death
July 24th, 2005 at 8:14 pmEasy Rider,
July 24th, 2005 at 8:16 pmHow would you feel if Bush fessed up and apologized for evrything. And actually admitted mistakes.
Come on Brian and Easy Rider
I’ve asked a simple question
Which Democrat is going to answer for my son’s death in Iraq. You can discuss all night and day whether freakin Rove told Card or Card told Rove, and probably they will both be sentenced to 2 years in a minimum security prison and live to write their million dollar memoirs, so truth be told, i don’t give a f”k about them
but what about the reality of a son’s death in Iraq - don’t you want to talk about reality
or is gossip and rumor all that matters
July 24th, 2005 at 8:19 pmBrain,
Since we can’t burn him at the stake I think a firing squad would work real well for the Commander-in-Chief. After all treason is treason.
July 24th, 2005 at 8:20 pmThere is no Democrat that can answer for death of soldiers.
July 24th, 2005 at 8:24 pmThey shamelessly voted for a war they knew was wrong because they feared losing their pathetic jobs. That makes them more evil than Bush.
Ye,
The reality is that the Democrats in office now have failed to stand up for the country at a time they needed to have a backbone.
It is also true it is us that have to put the back bone into them. On their own they with not risk their carees against the RNC, the GOP and their base (the rich people supporting the Right-wing Republicans, thier base is not the voters).
We have to hound everyone including the media to do their job and take back our country.
July 24th, 2005 at 8:25 pmYe,
I think every Dem that voted with Bush to go to war, without asking the hard questions should answer for the people that die in Iraq.
That is the other half of our problem. 70% of the Dems in Congress vote Republican 40% of the time. Why?
Why don’t our Democratic leaders stand up against this crap? It is a freaking crime what is happening and it isn’t all on the Republicans.
I think that most here could agree that Kerry was a wanna be Rebupican. I like to call him Republican Lite. If the picture of him vacationing and wind surfing just before the election didn’t say it all, I don’t know what will.
We have two problems. The Republicans are freaking whacked out and the Democrats are standing back watching (admiring?) them.
We have got to ge this country back under control.
July 24th, 2005 at 8:26 pmLet me be clear - I did not say my son has died in Iraq - I was saying if he is drafted and does die which could easily happen -
Second - I’m glad to hear that several here realize that the national security Democrats are as much a danger to our children as are the Republicans
July 24th, 2005 at 8:30 pmI can’t speak for evryone, but this is all about the war as far as I’m concerned. The link between national security and soldiers dying in Iraq is an issue WH will not even try to expound on anymore than simplistic pseudo-patriotic garbage about giving Iraqi kids candy and the warm feelings it provokes, or building a bastion of freedom smack in the middle of mid east for generations of americans to die for.
July 24th, 2005 at 8:38 pmThis is a war between Abraham factions that has an added bonus of makin a quick buck. It is pure evil.
You people are a bunch of raving lunatics.
No one has been arrested.
No crime has been proven.
Wilson and his wife are know liars and political hacks.
But you are ready to burn Rove at the Stake?
Can you spell Moonbat?
July 24th, 2005 at 8:41 pmCorrection…
Know should be Known*
Whated to clear that up prior to the attacks as to whether English is a first language for me since I obviously do not agree with any of you lunatics.
July 24th, 2005 at 8:43 pmYou’re throwing meat in the cage, Dave.
July 24th, 2005 at 8:43 pmI would hate to see a draft emplemented. I am not sure how it would affect women, so I am not as afraid for my 17 year old daughter, but my father got remarried and has two sons of 11 and 13 years of age. They are not in imenent danger of being drafted, but with the way things are dragging along….
And now that Condi has told everybody that the “War on Terrorism” is a generational fight, they very well could be in danger. That scares me, as I have very fond feelings for my two new brothers.
Also, what is the age cap on drafts? Would my brother who is 37 be at risk? Not at first, but as the body count goes up and more recruits are needed, I just don’t know. I wasn’t around during any of the Vietnam drafts, so I don’t have first hand knowledge.
Guess I need to go do more research. It is always better to know than to not.
July 24th, 2005 at 8:44 pmYe, et al,
I just came back from dinner and somehow it is now Kerry and the Democrats that started the Iraq war! What happened to DUHbya and the Right-wingnuts? Did I miss an act? You people should see a chiropractor and get treatment for your rectal cranial insertion. Or at least see an optometrist and get a contact lens for your navel so you can see the real world
July 24th, 2005 at 8:45 pmDave
The fact that no one has been arrested is meaningless.
The crime is being proven as evidence unfolds, but of course you probably don’t believe in evidence “know” or “known”
Wilson and his wife are not “know” or “known” liars any more than Bush is.
And when it comes to burning at the stake, your kind has got that down and you only stop when enough money is thrown your way.
July 24th, 2005 at 8:47 pmThey say drafts deter war…
July 24th, 2005 at 8:47 pmNo Dave I can’t.
Can you spell treason?
Tell me Dave, and I don’t want to hurt your feelings, but have ever taken an oath of office? If you have have you ever honored it? Or is being faithful to one’s country and its government by the people and for the people not in your business ethics?
You see lying to the American public for political gains is treason. But I sure you already know that.
July 24th, 2005 at 8:48 pmDave,
Actually the person who attacked me as to whether English was my first language, was on your side of the fence. Fake But Inaccurate is one of yours, not one of ours.
July 24th, 2005 at 8:48 pmDon,
July 24th, 2005 at 8:48 pmYe challenged our moral base. Called us gossips. I’m going to dinner.
Ye,
I agree with your comments and think many here do. The point Easyrider made is quite important: the Democrats backbone comes from us, and Bush has done more to galvanize the opposition than it could ever have done for itself.
Has something to do with that fight or flight thing, I think.
One must hope that it will be enough in the long run, no? The business as usual Democrats won’t clean up this mess. It’s up to you, me and everyone else paying attention to make sure that ‘business as usual’ is no longer good enough.
Won’t be easy so stay noisy.
July 24th, 2005 at 8:49 pmDon
It’s too bad that the sheep don’t just all agree that Clinton was good even though he oversaw the bombing and sanctioning of Iraq for 8 years during which millions of Iraqi children died, whilst Bush is bad cause he invaded Iraq and killed 200,000 plus 2000 American soldiers.
Fair is fair Don. Clinton isn’t any better than Bush. THey both suck big time.
July 24th, 2005 at 8:49 pmWhy Did Justice inform Gonzalez of this at 8:30 PM rather that at, say, 8:30 AM on a working day? In choosing the former, Justice allowed Gonzales the time to tip off his buddies at the White House about what was coming.
July 24th, 2005 at 8:50 pmClemsy
July 24th, 2005 at 8:50 pmNoise is my business. I’m glad to know i’m not alone.
Dan Smothergill,
You are 100% correct. I think that falls under the fact that these bastards are way too entrenched into every orifice of our government.
Ring, ring:
Hello?
There is going to be an investigation of you guys.
Really?
Yeah. So, you have 12 hours to clear everything out before you can’t destroy anymore evidance.
Okay, thanks. We’ll get right on that.
July 24th, 2005 at 8:55 pmYe
The main difference is that Bill rode the Metro. His Daddy didn’t own an oil company. There is no rational justification nor effective obfuscations for the illegal actions of the Bush crooks and obsequitious sycophants. Let’s just jail the Bastards and go on about our lives. The terrorists, like Grade School bullies, will go away when no one pays attention to them as the quise for stealing Iraqui oil.
July 24th, 2005 at 8:56 pmDan Smothergill–103 post
I wonder what the visitor logs at Justice, Executive Build, and the White House (and any other government facility that keeps visitor logs) would say who was where during those 12 hours?
That could be very interesting to check into.
July 24th, 2005 at 8:57 pmOh and Don
One more note about Kerry’s responsibility for the war - it was Congress that gave Bush authorization, was it not?
Ergo - Kerry et al of the Democrats are just as responsible, except Ms. McKinney, who was the lone Democrat to vote against authorrization.
I don’t recall any Democrat coming to her defense either. So screw Kerry et al.
July 24th, 2005 at 9:01 pmDon -on those oil companies
July 24th, 2005 at 9:04 pmGore has major stockholdings in Occidental Petroleum. Don’t kid yourself about the Dems. They ain’t no different. Just a zebra with a different stripe.
You are correct, it is like throwing meat into the cage. But alas I am not afraid. Truth will prevail.
As for Wilson and his wife you need to read up on his prior statements and testimony and their actions.
Yes I have taken an oath before and understand the need to show honor to that oath. However as an American I also believe in that part about “innocent until proven quilty”.
Moonbats.
July 24th, 2005 at 9:04 pmDon
July 24th, 2005 at 9:07 pmSo what do you have to say about Kerry’s vote to authorize the war? ANd when he voted he said, if it was proven that the facts were not as they stated, he would rescind, he has not done that. Where the hell is Kerry? He’s nowhere. He’s the ultimate nowhere man. I wouldn’t trust him with my son’s life. That’s for sure.
Ye,
No it was not! Congress, with a Republican majority, rubber stamped Bush’s action, AFTER THE FACT. The Democrats could not have changed the outcome if every one of them voted against the Bush Oil Grab. They acted in the only way possible to give the troops the support they needed. And not the euphemistic “Support our Troops” that Bush substitutes for “Kiss my ass, Daddy needs the oil.”
July 24th, 2005 at 9:11 pmTo Hilary and all the Democrats on this blog who think silence on the IRaq war or tacit acceptance of a “stay the course” policy is acceptable
TO them I say
Hell hath no fury like a parent scorned
Don’t expect my vote unless there’s a withdrawal from Iraq
July 24th, 2005 at 9:12 pmDon
That is just pure crap
They acted in the only way possible
NOOOOOO
They could have voted against it regardless of the outcome.
Or maybe they don’t have any conscience
July 24th, 2005 at 9:13 pmAnd voting for war is not a vote for support of troops. LEt’s get that clear.
Wearing a metallic ribbon on your car supporting the troops is bs.
Supporting the troops is when you work for withdrawal and to STOP THE WAR, not help start it or go along with it, or try to make it all better - that’s crap
Only play that game when it’s just YOUR LIFE that’s at stake. But don’t play that game with my son’s life.
July 24th, 2005 at 9:15 pmLet’s remember that this “vote for war” you guys are talking about was actually a vote authorizing the president to go to war. No small difference. When the prez requested this authority, he presented it as the best way to prevent war, by giving him the teeth to ensure that Saddam would take his demands seriously. War was the last resort, said the prez, and the last thing he wanted.
Congress screwed up - they trusted him
July 24th, 2005 at 9:17 pmTiltBillings
The only problem with your thesis is that Bush lied to Congress, which is what this original post is all about. Bush lied about his reasonsn for going to war, and outing Plame was part of his people protecting the lie.
And COngress, and Kerry, who should have known better, seeing as Kerry had lived through the lies and bs of Johnson during Vietnam, and Nixon in Cambodia, and Bush in SOuth America, he goes and BELIEVES BUSH. My guess is their Skull and Bones brotherhood had a lot to do with what went on here.
July 24th, 2005 at 9:20 pmDave,
“I also believe in that part about “innocent until proven quiltyâ€?.”
You, Ann Coulter, Oliver North, G. Gordon Liddy, Rush Limbaugh and others of your ilk are resonsable for Eric Rudolph, Tim McVeigh, and God knows many other murderers.
The only thing you know is hate. You are well versed in the mastery of lying and deceed.
————————-
Here is a good outline from driftglass:
Homepage: http://driftglass.blogspot.com/
Meanwhile, inside the Party of Lincoln (although the differentiation between party “insidersâ€? and “the mediaâ€? had, by this time, all but disappeared) Newt Gingrich — GOP’s #1 Fountain of Bile — had produced GOPAC’s own Little Red Book: a primer on teaching GOP Newspeak to the young ‘uns. It divided the rhetorical world into Positive, Optimistic Words to be used to describe all things Republican, and another list of words to be worked into every conversation about Democrats. Newt Gingrich’s instructions to his congressional Hitler Youth:
“This list is prepared so that you might have a directory of words to use in writing literature and mail, in preparing speeches, and in producing electronic media. The words and phrases are powerful. Read them. Memorize as many as possible. And remember that like any tool, these words will not help if they are not used.�
The words he listed to be jackhammered mindlessly into the skulls of anyone anytime you spoke of Democrats were: decay, failure (fail) collapse(ing) deeper, crisis, urgent(cy), destructive, destroy, sick, pathetic, lie, liberal, they/them, unionized bureaucracy, “compassion” is not enough, betray, consequences, limit(s), shallow, traitors, sensationalists, endanger, coercion, hypocrisy, radical, threaten, devour, waste, corruption, incompetent, permissive attitude, destructive, impose, self-serving, greed, ideological, insecure, anti-(issue): flag, family, child, jobs; pessimistic, excuses, intolerant, stagnation, welfare, corrupt, selfish, insensitive, status quo, mandate(s) taxes, spend (ing) shame, disgrace, punish (poor…) bizarre, cynicism, cheat, steal, abuse of power, machine, bosses, obsolete, criminal rights, red tape, patronage.
This was and is straight-up GOP Party POLICY, and now they actually have the nerve to pule about “civility� and “decorum.�
————–
Lie Big, Lie Often, and Lie Bigger, Lie More Often. Where do we encounter that theme? Was that some group in Europe in the 1920s was using to come to power in 1932? What was that group’s name? Republicans of Germany, was that it? Maybe you could check your membership card for us Dave and remind us just what social group you belong to.
July 24th, 2005 at 9:21 pmAnybody wonder, as I have, if Ashcroft didn’t resign but was actually fired right after the 2004 election? I bet BushCo were furious at his appointment of Fitzgerald instead of a lackey to run the Plame investigation once the prosecutor proved he wanted a real investigation. Ashcroft left the Justice Department faster than Jerry Bremer left Baghdad.
July 24th, 2005 at 9:22 pm“Congress screwed up - they trusted him”
They should read the same stuff I do. I shouldn’t know better than Congress. Cripes.
The Dems voted for that authorization because they wanted the issue off the table so they could hit Bush on domestic issues. They didn’t think themselves up to a foreign policy confrontation.
Morons.
July 24th, 2005 at 9:23 pmI believe Ashcroft got out because he knew he was culpable in the national security leak around Wilson - I think that’s why Ari Fleischer disappeared quickly as well - they stuck their finger in the air and saw which way the wind was blowing, and they smelled an ill wind, and they ran for cover. But they may as yet be brought to justice.
July 24th, 2005 at 9:24 pmThe pressure of the lies gets to some people, especially if they’re fiercely religious like Ashcroft…they can’t deal with their own duplicity vs. their biblical teachings. He came down with an acute case of pancreatitis right before he quit. According to a national digestive info website…
“Acute pancreatitis is usually caused by gallstones or by drinking too much alcohol.”
Ashcroft must have been bathing in bourbon, knowing the special prosecutor he appointed was slowly but surely exposing this snakepit of liars and thieves.
July 24th, 2005 at 9:29 pmYes HenryClay
Religious zealots are like used car salesmen - full of crapola
July 24th, 2005 at 9:33 pmYe..
“When my son is drafted to fight the ongoing occupation of Iraq and if my son dies as a result - which Democrat should I curse when I’m handed the folded flag…”
My son is in Iraq, and he is there because BUSH LIED to the Congress and the nation to get us into this war for oil.
Your statement is an insult to the intelligence of everyone who waits minute after dragging minute for that knock on the door…Who prays every idle minute for the beloved baby she raised to come home safe…who shrieks with silent rage at the thought that he is in mortal danger not for the protection and preservation of the Union which his father, grandfather and great grandfather fought for, but to maximise the profits of Bush’s oily friends…while he destroys the Constitution and kills innocent Iraquis who just happen to live on top of his oil. As an American, you have a perfect right to display your idiocy anywhere you can, but don’t use me and my family to dramatise and justify it, you worthless piece of sh-t.
July 24th, 2005 at 9:35 pmGramma
YOur post is an insult to my son’s life and to anyone’s life who is trying to save lives not waste them on a lie for what? FORRRR WHATTTTT????? so you can drive your car farther faster and more often.
I spit in your general direction
July 24th, 2005 at 9:38 pmGramma
MY GREAT GRANDFATHER FOUGHT IN THE FREAKIN CIVIL WAR, MY FATHER FOUGHT IN WWII
NOW YOU WANT MY SON
SCREW YOU
July 24th, 2005 at 9:39 pmGramma
YOu can’t silence me. You won’t ever silence me.
I’m sick of all you people driving around with your metallic ribbons. If you support the war, GET OUT OF YOUR CAR ANDN GO TO IRAQ AND FIGHT IT YOURSELF. BUT DON’T SEND MY SON.
July 24th, 2005 at 9:41 pmYe,
I don’t believe that Gramma wants your son sent to Iraq. Reread her post.
July 24th, 2005 at 9:44 pmI believe Alberto Gonzales alleged candor with Bob Schieffer is indication of the seriousness of the investigation. As some have written here, there was ample time to concoct stories, but there is also seemingly ample evidence from a variety of sources like phone logs that Fitzgerald has been able to get his hands on. Doonesbury’s cartoon daydream today of a contrite whitehouse seems to be coming true. Suddenly the hate machine is quiet and sober. That can only be a good sign for the rest of us.
July 24th, 2005 at 9:45 pmTom
July 24th, 2005 at 9:47 pmI read Gramma’s post several times. And she’s either unable to read or insane. But either way, I’ll fight for my son’s life any day, any time any where. And nobody’s going to silence me. And Gramma, Bush and the Clinton’s and all the national security democrats can all go f”k themselves in Iraq and leave me and my family out of it.
BProfane
A good sign? A good sign would be Bush, Cheney, and Hastert all being led off in handcuffs. Now that would be a good sign. Another good sign would be the Democratic party admitting they f”ked up and putting forth a candidate for immediate withdrawal.
And if pigs could fly
July 24th, 2005 at 9:51 pmThe only way to win is to stop fighting each other. Ye is not your enemy Gramma. Gramma isn’t yours, Ye.
Gramma’s son has my best wishes.
Heh. My wife says the longer he keeps them over there, the more likely they’ll come back Democrats.
July 24th, 2005 at 9:54 pmWe need to push the media to ask Scotty and Bush the following:
We need to asking questions about the PDA service providers for DOJ, RNC, GOP, White House, White House staff, and any other group associated with BushCo.
We need to be asking about the tape or hardrive backups of this device services. We need to be asking about the tracking the Instant Messaging used by these criminals.
We need to be asking Bush if he or any successor will should issue pardons to any of people convicted in connection with the crimes being complete during his administration. Get him on record. His papa pardoned the Iran-Contra criminals.
July 24th, 2005 at 9:54 pmYe..
“To Hilary and all the Democrats on this blog who think silence on the IRaq war or tacit acceptance of a “stay the courseâ€? policy is acceptable
TO them I say
Hell hath no fury like a parent scorned
Don’t expect my vote unless there’s a withdrawal from Iraq”
Your pathetic, transparent little “divide and conquer” rant will not detract from the obvious reality that the Democratic paarty is the only boat afloat to get us out of Iraq. You bring to mind the GOP’s support for the Green Party in 2004. You don’t speak for me, and you don’t speak for most of the military families I’ve met. There are two types of trolls, Ye, the stupidly obvious and the stupidly manipulative. You are the latter. Give it up, Bozo. You aren’t fooling this lifelong left-wing Dem.
July 24th, 2005 at 9:55 pmClemsy
July 24th, 2005 at 9:56 pmI’ve lived long enough to know that a Democrat in power can be just as war mongering and dangerous as a Republican. I will fight the Democrats and the Republicans as long as I have breath in me. As long as Hilary and Bill keep talking up occupation and talking down withdrawal, they are as much a part of the problem as is Bush.
Gramma
July 24th, 2005 at 9:58 pmYou’re right I don’t speak for you. Because you are an idiot. And I don’t speak for idiots. You either can’t read or don’t understand what you read. You are like those religious zealots who blindly follow their savior. Well Bill and Hilary ain’t no saviors. But you’re probably too young to remember Johnson. He oversaw the war in Vietnam. And don’t call me a troll. You are the troll. And the last refuge of a scoundrel is to wrap themselves in patriotism. That applies to you. Don’t lecture me. You are a fraud and probably a troll yourself. So screw off.
Gramma,
Ye’s point is that the Dems went meekly into this disaster. He’s right. That’s what they did. Right now the Democratic party is the only boat afloat. You’re right. As was said earlier, the Dems need to maintain some backbone.
C’mon you guys.
July 24th, 2005 at 9:59 pmAnd Gramma
July 24th, 2005 at 9:59 pmIf teh Democratic party is the only boat a float, then you can kiss your sorry ass good bye. And no I don’t belong to the Green party or any party.
Gramma
If you are a life long left wing Democrat then I am Bush Jr
You are the troll. Kiss my ass
July 24th, 2005 at 10:01 pmClemsy
July 24th, 2005 at 10:04 pmSorry to disagree with you but my point is the Democrats didn’t go meekly into the disaster, they jumped in with both feet. And if the DLC or the DNC had any integrity they’d admit that and pull their respective feet out of the quagmire. Instead, Hilary wants to go “..knee deep in the big muddy, and the big fool said to push on” Pete Seeger.
Oh please. None of these buttwipes in Washington, D.C., or anyplace else for that matter, bare the remotest resemblance to an Eisenhower conservative Republican, or a Kennedy liberal Democrat. Some are close, but damn few.
July 24th, 2005 at 10:06 pmHud
Who are you kidding? Eisenhower - “beware of the military industrial complex” but I won’t do anything about it Eisenhower as I float off into Golf heaven?
Or Kennedy of the Hi - I’m only sending “advisors” to Vietnam and don’t worry there won’t be a war, but oh gee the war is widening and can’t we support Diem’s regime in South Vietnam with YOUR BOYS’ LIVES?
Spare those of us who lived through that history the vision of your distorted lense.
July 24th, 2005 at 10:11 pmUsually VP Cheney is jumping in to rescue the prez at this point. Where is he right now? Too scared to perjure himself? I am also wondering if Bolton might tie Card and VP office together and leak together?
Finally, I am curious to how some pundits can love their country and yet claim it is okay to attack a govt employee who has served her country for political gain. Any politician (DEM or REP) should lose their security clearances and be charged if they violate security precautions. I would love the actually leaker of her name to have the punishment similar to Die Hard 3. They should send this person to Iraq with a sign on their back and chest that says I outed a US CIA agent and walk to the hwy from Bagdad Airport to the Green Zone.
Look forward to your thoughts.
July 24th, 2005 at 10:14 pmBlow it out yer ass, Ye.
July 24th, 2005 at 10:16 pmYe
July 24th, 2005 at 10:19 pmI clearly remember Johnson. I also remember the Free Speech Movement, People’s Park, The Haight Ashberry Free Clinic, Telegraph Avenue, and a host of other icans of the era. I demonstrated against the war then and I demonstrated against it in ‘02 and ‘03. And I would do it again tomorrow. But a non negotionble one issue demand is a tactic that will divide and conquer the party, not get us out of this mess. It’s the kind of approach that weakened the left in the ’80s and ’90s and brought us to this sorry pass where pointless death in the name of multinational profit is the remnant of the Dream. I think it has been the succsessor (sp?) to CoInTelPro. Politics is the art of the ideal and and the science of the practical, and you don’t marry the two and create a winning party by making non negotioable demands. And you have no right to use me and my family’s emotional sufferring as enotional blackmail to dramatize your point of view.
I was off for a while — what happened? Now the Democrats are responsible for everything? Why does the argument always turn into nonsense. We do not have good politicians for the most part — on either party — although I believe the Reps. are more selfish and lack compassion. I have mightily complained to my Democratic reps. and sens. as well as to the MSM to wake up and stand up! But that is all secondary right now to the crimes perpetrated by those in the White House today. This is about Bush and Co. and their miserable war, stinking lies, corruption, and deceit — and the havoc that has wrought for us and the world.
July 24th, 2005 at 10:19 pmDan Davis, I love your sarcasm! There is always room for a little dark humor in this very serious time. Ooops! I forgot, the Republican Bush lovers are humorless — they don’t get it — they can dish it out but they just can’t take it. They retort by slinging irrelevant mudpies.
From the Christian side………….And I don’t mean prince stupids God.
Price stupid had to be re-elected to be impeached and to bring his evil “friends” down with him. In His timeline, England had to have their elections to bring out the Downing Street Memoes and that is when the snowball started.
In the end all the dots will be connected. And I truly believe it will all be proven starting with the rigged election of 2000.
Our God (again NOT prince studpids God) has his own timeline. We have our faith.
July 24th, 2005 at 10:19 pmIt was Eisenhower who got us involved in Viet Nam, BTW. Go away, Pat Buchanan is an isolationist. Go play with that psycho.
July 24th, 2005 at 10:20 pmIt’s The: Ye old switcheroo troll play. Still not makin’ sense though righty.
July 24th, 2005 at 10:21 pmI really don’t see much difference between the two parties these days. I would never vote for a Republican, but to keep a repugnican out of office, you are pretty much locked into a Demo in name only. I would love to have viable progressive candidates, someday we will.
July 24th, 2005 at 10:23 pmGramma,
July 24th, 2005 at 10:26 pmYou go girl! If my son were in Iraq, I think I would want to choke Bush and Cheney and Rumsfeld with my own two hands. They can all go to hell.
Yeah, I think he’s a jack ass, too.
July 24th, 2005 at 10:27 pmHud..Get active in your local Dem party and male it happen!!!
July 24th, 2005 at 10:27 pmSorry, my fingers don’t work too well anymore…That should be
July 24th, 2005 at 10:29 pmmake it happen!!
Gramma
I never used you emotionally to dramatize anything - you are a fraud and are probably cointelpro cause i was at all those rallies you allude to. So blow it out your bippie as they used to say. And on what TV show did they say that Gramma? If you really are who you claim to me? Who said blow it out your bippie?
And Hud
July 24th, 2005 at 10:30 pmRight back at ya
“First they ignore you. Then they insult you. Then they fight you. Then you win.” M. Ghandi
July 24th, 2005 at 10:31 pmBetty,
It took me a long time to accept the fact that our reformed drunk, lying with false piety, president was reelected, but I finally came to where you are — he n