Why Gonzales’ Excuse Doesn’t Cut It
Why Gonzales’ Excuse Doesn’t Cut It
Alberto Gonzales argues that the 12-hour head start he gave to Andrew Card before he instructed the White House staff to preserve documents related to Plame leak was appropriate because he got permission from the Department of Justice. According to Gonzales, he contacted the Department of Justice about it and was told: “Go ahead and notify the staff early in the morning. That would be OK.”
Bob Schieffer noted yesterday that the 12-hour window gave “people time to shred documents and do any number of things.”
Remember: at the time, the investigation was controlled by former Attorney General John Ashcroft. Karl Rove “worked for Ashcroft over the course of two decades.” After Ashcroft lost his Senate seat in 2000 Rove “lobbied intensely for his former employer’s nomination” to Attorney General.
In December 2003, Ashcroft recused himself from the investigation amidst criticism that his close ties to Rove and others in the White House created a conflict of interest.
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It was just a matter of time before Ashcroft got tied up in this. He should explain why we allowed the 12 hour delay.
July 25th, 2005 at 10:11 amI believe we will see all the BushCo traitors involved in this, eventually. Once one of them is charged, the house of cards will fall. Let’s hope sooner than later.
July 25th, 2005 at 10:23 amMy guess is that only the inner circle of the leak conspiracy had any documents (if that) to begin with. So even if the staff were instructed immediately to preserve documents, (a) the innocent staff who weren’t involved would have had very little to shred anyway, and (b) the conspirators would have shredded everything anyway.
So while this may not turn out to be as much a smoking gun as the State Dept memo, it still gives us a good indication of how wide the inner circle was.
July 25th, 2005 at 10:33 amYou think anyone on the inside can provide eveidence that Ashcroft communicated with White House and staft about the on going investigation?
When will the little people who of no concern to this addministration wise up and expose the crimes being or those that have been committed by this administration group of criminals?
July 25th, 2005 at 10:34 amDon’t you agree that this should mean that many of the administrations people should be called back before the Grand Jury and asked if they 1) heard about the coming order, 2) if they shredded, or ordered shredded any documents in that timeframe, 3) what were those documents.
Bushco is starting to sqirm.
July 25th, 2005 at 10:52 amEasyRider,
Good question regarding the little people and why they are not singing. You have to figure that the Bush Admins inner circle is really tight, if you’re a little guy you are surely not privy. It does appear however that they have sufficiently pissed off the CIA, and that is biting them now.
July 25th, 2005 at 11:10 amI really think we are being a tad optimistic on this. What paper trail would Rove had left with regular staff for example?
The bottom line is that Rove’s own lawyer has publicly stated events that indicate that Rove violated SF 312, and Bush has to comply with HIS obligations under Executive Order 12958, and take “corrective action”. McCain’s “negligence” defence does not hold water and WE need to keep repeating that.
July 25th, 2005 at 11:27 amI’m predicting two things; we will soon see the appearance of James Baker to help the Bushniks deal with the Plamegate situation; and, he will try to halt Fitzgerald’s investigation before it goes any deeper. This thing is killing the White House, and will make it very difficult for Bush to advance any of his second-term agenda items.
July 25th, 2005 at 11:38 am…
We are getting a view into the Bush Administation
that many feared was true.
Now we know it IS true. They DO lie and decieve
and put politics over National security, etc…
They are exactly as bad as we thought.
History will not be kind to these assholes
…..
July 25th, 2005 at 11:38 amIt all depends on how clever thay are with computers. REALLY erasing something from a hard drive is not straightforward. But they could also have created exculpatory documents and back-dated them. One thing that comes to mind is a memo from Rove I recall reading somewhere which serves to document that the subject of his call from Cooper was Welfare Reform.
July 25th, 2005 at 11:42 amDarth, there are so many crimes and so much evidence that sometimes it seems ridiculous that we sit here and stake our claims on small misdeeds in order to make our case that these people are war criminals. Common sense and logic is enough to connect the dots a thousand times over. It’s so frustrating that in the end they will get away with so much. I only hope that they will have to answer to a more powerful judge when the time is right.
July 25th, 2005 at 11:43 am12 hours is a long time
Here’s a chain of events. A cookie for anyone who spots the problem:
Justice Department is notified that an investigation is underway in the Plame CIA leak
July 25th, 2005 at 11:59 amJustice calls then-White House counsel (now Attorney General) Alberto Gonzalez at 8pm
…
LEST WE FORGET! The Scriptures say…”the sins of the father will be visited on the son.” Many of those who surround GWB worked first for daddy. Ashcroft, Rumsfeld, to name but two. Rove worked for Ashcroft…are we to believe that the corruption, lying, coverup etc. etc. just started with the GWB group, or were trained by daddy? I can’t believe he is clean in all this.
July 25th, 2005 at 12:25 pmdon’t forget that Rove was fired by Bush 41 for very similar circumstances (leaking info to the press, Novak, to attack a political rival). To me the most interesting event so far is Alberto Gonzales breaking rank.
July 25th, 2005 at 12:41 pmAlberto Gonzales:Bush::Mark Felt:Nixon?
As Frank Rich pointed out a.g. A.G. can’t be appointed as supreme court justice under this cloud so the question arises – was he made promises by Bushco and is he pissed enough about the stoogesque bumblings to go against the rolling disclosure tactics?
Gonzo is so over his head.
I bet he wishes he was back writing briefs for Bush to excuse torture at Abu Ghraib.
What a mess!
July 25th, 2005 at 12:43 pmBeing in the computer industry I know that there are a few 100 or more computer experts that can paint a picture of every detail that has been done by BushCo. Hardrives that may have been removed, replaced, lost, erased, or whatever else BushCo though of doing to cover their tracks.
Those are to ones who will provide tha real evidence of the crimes. All the other stuff is just “Got you” crap. It is when they begin to investigate what the techie were ordered to do to cover BushCo tracks that we will have the evidence to indict and convict.
July 25th, 2005 at 1:18 pm[...] Think Progress has more details here. [...]
July 25th, 2005 at 1:28 pmAll of Dubya’s posse are undoubtedly counting on Dubya giving them pardons for their crimes in l’affaire du Plaime. That worked for Dubya’s daddy’s cronies when he let Cap the Knife off the hook by pardoning him a month before 41 left office. Dubya’s cronies might suffer from the problem that any pardon issued before the 2006 elections means a debacle in Congress unless even the Republicans begin investigations. Not even the most ardent Dubya supporter will be able to ignore the stench pardons like this will waft through the nation. The only reason for granting them is to cover-up the crimes and few will be able to ignore that.
July 25th, 2005 at 1:48 pmCarpetbagger points out that the White House actually had an entire weekend between announcement of the investigation and the formal notice by Gonzalez to preserve evidence.
http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/4796.html
So the 12 hours is really more like 84 hours…
July 25th, 2005 at 1:58 pm#11 Jay –
True, but we still have to pursue the (relatively) small things hoping to trip up the crime family on their huge war crimes eventually.
July 25th, 2005 at 2:01 pmAnd yes, at the risk of sounding a little right-wing, judgement day WILL come.
July 25th, 2005 at 2:03 pmLets see we have criminals intent on covering up.
Really, what is the difference between destroying documents before, after, or during the 12 hours. If nobody sees the documents then who can be certain when they were destroyed?
July 25th, 2005 at 3:26 pmI’m beginning to wonder if the swarm of little misdeeds isn’t being intentionally unleashed to defocus critics from the main issue. Gonzales’ 12 hour gap in someways might be like accusations that Plame wasn’t a “real” covert. In worrying about 10,000 peripheral details, none of which ever amount to anything but confusion for the average voter, the uninformed just throw up their hands and figure it’s all just more Democratic whining.
July 25th, 2005 at 3:52 pmIn this article … the SF Gate was apparently told that the Justice Department DID INDEED alert the White House “Late Monday” about the investigation.
There’s some cracks in this story.
Too bad there isn’t someone who can ask Gonzalez the right question and trap him in a lie. Because it’s out there!!
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2003/09/30/national1501EDT0670.DTL
July 25th, 2005 at 3:59 pmHere is some questions that was sent to Senator Reid that need to be asked of all Bush’s nominees:
To: Senator Reid, July 21, 2005
I think all the Democrats need to be asking all nominees what organizations or institutes they are or have ever been involved with. Require them to identify all such organizations, and provide information on the political slant thereof.
Follow up with requests for membership lists and donors lists, and issues and policies advocated by these organizations.
Of real interest is the Council for National Policy (CNP). Do they know members? Are they a member? What is their relationship to organizations that has had or has members to CNP?
Have they been involved with organizations that have political slants that want to change the direction of America, or influence the moral direction of America?
Thanks,
July 25th, 2005 at 4:07 pmWhile the 12-hour peroid could have given time to destroy evidence, it’s fairly unlikly that documentary evidence ever estisted. This was an(other) effort to smear an opponent; an effort to obsure matters, not to clarify them. Rove & Co. are experts in whispers and hints, not of e-mail and memos.
July 25th, 2005 at 4:42 pmI am so happy they are catching up to this rotten administration that we have to live with for the next 3 1/2 years. I firmly believe the Bush himself outed Valerie Plame and had rove and cheney and perhaps Bolton spread the word. I would love to see the whole administration brought down by this outing of a CIA agent, covert none the less. Its all about her husband not saying what Bush and Co wanted to hear in order to give a little cement to starting the war without wmds or yello cake. Were in for a tough 3 and counting more years with this jerk running America. How sad the people put him once again!!!!
July 25th, 2005 at 4:45 pmHow does the 12 gap by Gonzales look compared to the Columbia disacter and NASA’s immediate lockdown order:
“Flight director LeRoy Cain dashed all hope for Columbia and its crew when he issued this chilling command to his Mission Control team: “Lock the doors.”
With those three words came a lockdown of Mission Control and a lengthy, gut-wrenching investigation into Columbia’s destruction as it headed home on Feb. 1, 2003. “
Who would have thought that a group of scientists and engineers would know, and have, procedures to lock down evidence for an investigation that had not been ordered yet.
While lawyers in the White House and DOJ thought it was a good idea to wait for 12 hours to issue a lock down. Then for insurance gave a heads’ up to the Chief of Staff?
Nice to know lawyers know how to circumvent the laws of the nation without any ability or need to obverse them.
Nixon is proud of this administration for the sheer gall I displays.
July 25th, 2005 at 4:50 pmglobalyokel, I think you’re predictions have a real ring of chilling possibility, given that that’s what saved W in 2000.
I’m not a lawyer, but it seems to me that stopping a criminal investigation involving a special prosecutor and federal grand jury and several federal justices is not in the same league as Bush v. Gore, a civil matter. I mean, if Baker tried to get SCOTUS to stop the investigation of Rove, et. al., it would result in a political firestorm that would shut down the government. It would be like a trainwreck in slow motion. They just might try it, and they could, if anybody could, pull it off. But at a very high price, and then nothing agenda-wise could ever get done.
So, I think, Baker getting pulled in to twist some arms behind the scenes to help W get out of this mess is a good bet, but W has dug himself such a big hole I don’t think anything can be done to make everything OK again. The corruption of this administration is so pervasive that it will eventually consume itself; it’s just taking a long time. As that saying goes, you give him enough rope, he’ll eventually hang himself with it.
July 25th, 2005 at 4:52 pmDoes one really think Bushies will testify truthfully, even under oath? Methinks not. However, for those of us old enough to remember the Watergate scandal, it only took one man (John Dean) who had the courage to speak the truth. I doubt, however, that any of the slimeballs slithering under Bush’s rock brain have any shadow of decency, or courage, so we’re in for quite a frightening ride.
July 25th, 2005 at 4:56 pmSo, Justice said it was ok to notify the staff in the morning and then AG notified Andy Card, the Chief of Staff immediately. How is that not notifying the staff???
July 25th, 2005 at 5:15 pmHow could someone, even a fixer extraordinaire like James Baker, put a stop to the investigation? This whole story shows that there is a limit to what the machinations of the Rove political machine can do. Once the CIA gets motivated, nothing stops it. I think their motivation may be that some of their people have been kidnapped or killed as a result of Valerie Wilson’s unmasking. (After all, it wouldn’t be publicized.)
The special prosecutor’s investigation has WAY too much momentum for a political hack like Baker to stop it.
July 25th, 2005 at 5:37 pmWouldn’t the phone records in the White House for that evening be a good place to start looking for information? If everyone went home, wouldn’t some phone calls need to be made to bring in the shredders?
July 25th, 2005 at 5:38 pmBetty: I have been saying all along that the leak was made by Bush and that Miller will not give his name up without promises from him that he will pardon her later on.
The next best guess is Cheney (of course threatening someone). But again, it could be loose-tongued wives,
July 25th, 2005 at 5:39 pmLaura or Lynn.
Illini,
If Judith Miller were to talk, there’d be nothing to pardon her for. (By “him” do you mean the President or the Special Prosecutor? If the former, why would Bush offer her an incentive to get him in trouble?)
July 25th, 2005 at 5:58 pm[...] Think Progress on Gonzales’ pathetic excuse : Alberto Gonzales argues that the 12-hour head start he gave to Andrew Card before he instructed the White House staff to preserve documents related to Plame leak was appropriate because he got permission from the Department of Justice. According to Gonzales, he contacted the Department of Justice about it and was told: “Go ahead and notify the staff early in the morning. That would be OK.â€? [...]
July 25th, 2005 at 6:06 pmWhen does Ashcroft get subpoenaed to testify before the Grand Jury? When does all of the communications in the 12 hour time frame get subpoenaed?
July 25th, 2005 at 6:07 pmCarpetbagger points out that the White House actually had an entire weekend between announcement of the investigation and the formal notice by Gonzalez to preserve evidence.
http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/4796.html
So the 12 hours is really more like 84 hours…
Comment by Laszlo Panaflex  July 25, 2005 @ 1:58 pm
July 25th, 2005 at 6:57 pmMaybe Ken Lay gave the White House a great going-out-of-business deal on some of those Enron/Arthur Anderson high-speed document shredders.
July 25th, 2005 at 7:23 pmIt all stinks to high heaven and grows smellier by the day–just like any numbers of evil deeds in the last four plus years. Where was Bush when the messages came through from Osama’s (we presume)? Doesn’t it sound more than a little crazy for a president to take a whole month off when warnings were being given for such awful plans? Obviously those noxious weeds needed to be cut (only he-men would heave them to flourish) but the days for dealing with the messages were dwindling down as he spent those hapcyon, summery 2002 days in Texas. this is presidential??
July 25th, 2005 at 7:25 pmErm,
I’m wondering just WHY Gonzales all of a sudden lets this pearl slip to the public? I mean, as far as any questions or comments on anything involved with TraitorGate, the WH has been (pardon the expression) tighter than a bull’s ass during fly season, right?
So, why does Gonzales admit this now?
We’ve learned today that Pat Roberts of Kansas will be starting a little investigation of his own. He and the Senate Intel Committee will be looking at Fitzgerald’s grand jury investigation. That’s right campers.
Is the WH throwing things out into the mix, trying to confuse the investigation as much as it can, trying to force even a lengthier and more detailed investigation to be necessary, so that the Republicans can then cry foul to the investigation itself?
If Fitz calls for another six month extension, which, from what I know, is within his rights, then he may start to look like a special prosecutor run amok.
Anyone know how long Starr’s fiasco ran?
July 25th, 2005 at 10:20 pmCome on, do you really believe the White House would not have shredded documents if “S&M” Gonzales would have notified them properly?
Criminals do not obey the law. That’s why they’re criminals. Got it?
July 25th, 2005 at 10:25 pmSalon points out that the 12 hour gap was actually a lot longer because NBC and the Washington Post had already run stories on the investigation before Gonzalez was formally notified. http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/index.html?blog=/politics/war_room/2005/07/25/gonzales_gap/index.html
July 25th, 2005 at 10:52 pmI noticed this typo in today’s gaggle
Q But in the spirit of cooperation, and you had indicted on October 1, 2003, that the reason that the Justice Department was asked, is it okay to wait until the morning, and the answer was that it was okay, but in the spirit of cooperation, why did the notification not go out until 11 or 12 hours later?
July 25th, 2005 at 11:11 pmremember the old saying, that character is what you do when no one is looking. well the american public is too busy viewing news from the shores of aruba and how britney is doing to waste time on these goons. if they dont wake up soon,murdoch will write an epilogue to this “non” story and it will fade to black and floyd r turbo will break ground on his liberry, sad…..
July 25th, 2005 at 11:50 pmSounds to me like Gonzalez knew that it was coming out anyway and wanted to get out ahead of the story.
July 26th, 2005 at 3:34 pmThe real question is why did they send the announcement over at 8:30 in the evening?
July 26th, 2005 at 4:01 pmGuess who was here speaking on Meet The Press from Scott’s Valley, California…..none other than our AG, Alberto Gonzales. Nobody had a clue..he came in at about 3:30am in the morning under cover. The mayor got huffy when two callers watching the show saw the Scotts Valley prompt and called the local newspaper “The Sentinel” to see what was up. The mayor of Scott’s Valley said if the AG was here wouldn’t he know about it???
July 26th, 2005 at 7:44 pmThe only things being printed by the MSM (Main Stream Media)that are actually factual are leaked from the White House…everything else..absolutely NO ONE has access to and they are manipulating every single one of us. Our local paper wrote an editorial. You all should read it, it was to the point and correct. Santa Cruz Sentinel 7/26/05 titled “Sources or Manipulators??”
it seems things just get worse in Bush Country. no one seens to be able to slow down this train that is going to crash and hurt the American People for many years to come. have we really lost all control to stop these liars and con-artist from ruining and,or giving away our our jobs and even our liberty? even Homeland security is a joke as is most of what Bush&Crooks have created to help Big Business and hurt the Real Americans. please remember to VOTE,VOTE,VOTE in 2006 and 2008.
July 27th, 2005 at 7:22 amOf course the low-level people aren’t singing. The Bush administration has a carefully guarded and carefully educated inner circle and it’s clear that promotions to bigger and better things are available for those who shut up and play by the rules. Talk and lose your job. Smile and nod and maybe you’ll get to sit at the big kids’ table.
July 28th, 2005 at 6:51 amThe Downey Street memo tells us that even before we went to the U.N. that George Jr. wanted military action against Iran. I can understand wanting to get the guy who tried to off your dad, but a different plan should have been tried, oops. Anyway, lets tell everyone about WMD, it’s coming in from Niger, oops, Wilson. It’s there though, stockpiles of it, oops, U.N. Inspectors. That’s okay, degrade anyone against us, and continue to lie to the Amerikan public. They don’t know enough about any of this stuff. Besides, once we’re in Iran, we can all wave our flag and denounce anyone who doesn’t. We can blame the CIA and the FBI, lets out one of their agents, they’ll get the message. If they don’t, we will put one of our own in there to run the place. We can control the “free” press by leaking negative stuff about our detractors through korporate owned media, we already purchased those guys. Don’t forget we got Rush and all his wanna bees, we got Novak, we got Swift Boat guys, and guys with a pulpit, they won’t deal with reality. Anyone against us will be equated to a 9/11 terrorist, and don’t forget, God is on our side, who would go against God.
Who among you would want to stop getting new heroes, don’t you want heroes? Why would anyone want to make the thousands of families feel even worse by informing them that their loss was for a lie?
They will even buy into fighting terrorism there instead of here, Homeland Security is mostly smoke and mirrors anyway. It was the best way to get control over our security forces. So, for the benefit of all, and a little help, we can fool most of the people most of the time.
We have heard from people within government, even the White House, speak out and then face the wrath of God Jr., rollover Rove(r).
Sorry folks, I’m a new subscriber, had to vent.
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