Karen Hughes: Karl Rove’s Kryptonite
Karen Hughes: Karl Rove’s Kryptonite
The White House may be bringing Karen Hughes back to Washington to fix America’s image abroad but Chief of Staff Andy Card probably wishes she’d help him out with the administration’s image here at home. Considering the President’s plunging poll numbers and the Plamegate scandal, Card must be breathing a sigh of relief that she’s back in the administration at all. Remember, in 2002, when he bared his soul to Esquire magazine about why he was so freaked over Hughes’ departure:
“She’s leaving when the president has one of the highest approval ratings on record. From here, it can only go down. And when it does, you know who they’re going to blame. They’re gonna blame Andy Card!”
[snip]
“The key balance around here has been between Karen and Karl Rove. That’s what I’ve been doing from the start of this administration. Standing on the middle of the seesaw, with Karen on one side, Karl on the other, trying to keep it in balance. One of them just jumped off.” He throws himself onto the couch to demonstrate, then he exhales again and talks about how he might restore balance, a balance that he knows will be needed if this presidency is not to suffer. “I’ll need designees, people trusted by the president that I can elevate for various needs to balance against Karl. They are going to have to really step up, but it won’t be easy. Karl is a formidable adversary.”
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We all need to start using one term for this scandal.
This article uses Plamegate, I’ve seen Plamegate, Rovegate, and several other (Insert word here)Gates.
I think we all should start referring to this for what it REALLY is about.
We who oppose this scandal should call it TraitorGate!
Please, from this point forward refer to the scandal as TraitorGate. If we say it enough it will stick. Because afterall isn’t this about Treason?
Thank you.
July 27th, 2005 at 12:17 pmPast tense of “bare” is “bared”. “Bore” is the past tense of “bear.”
July 27th, 2005 at 12:18 pmIt’s not PLAMEGATE… it’s TRAITORGATE!!! Get with it.
July 27th, 2005 at 12:28 pmTRAITORGATE!!!
TRAITORGATE!!!
TRAITORGATE!!!
TRAITORGATE!!!
Don’t drop the soap, Karl!
July 27th, 2005 at 12:34 pmIf Karen is as smart as they say she is, she’ll encourage the whole stinkin’ shootin’ match to frog march that bozo OUTTA THERE!
July 27th, 2005 at 12:36 pmHeard Karen and Karl plan to strip down settle their differences with a little summo wrestling.
July 27th, 2005 at 12:45 pmPerhaps Karen Hughes is preparing to take Rove’s place? KKKarl’s vicious journey is finally at an end….
July 27th, 2005 at 1:00 pmIn his book, The Price of Loyalty, Paul O’Neill recalls his first meeting with Pres-elect Curveball. They had ordered some burgers for lunch but hadn’t been served quite a while later. Andy Card came in and Duh-bya barked at him, “you’re the chief-of-staff, you think you’re up to getting us some burgers!” Card scuttled away and returned soon with lunch.
Andy is a weasel and a eunuch. He will eventually wind up as a fall guy for Curveball, who will later stop returning his phone calls.
July 27th, 2005 at 1:05 pmWhy Rove and Plamegate still being discussed here? The average American could care less.
July 27th, 2005 at 1:35 pmstart your own blog if you don’t like it steve. Make sure to tell us what the title is so we can ignore you w/o being ignorant.
July 27th, 2005 at 1:39 pmWith the Karl Rove PlameGate scandal now in high gear, the Bush White House and the GOP leadership as usual have everyone singing the same tune. Over the last three weeks, their latest smash sound bite hit, “Don’t Prejudge An Ongoing Investigation”, has jumped to the top of the charts.
For the Top 10 Bush Greatest Hits and performances of “Ongoing Investigation” by President Bush, Scott McClellan, and Ken Mehlman, see:
“The Top 10 Bush Greatest Hits”
July 27th, 2005 at 1:46 pmThey could care less if they couldn’t care less.
July 27th, 2005 at 1:46 pmwe are discussing it Steve because there is an ongoing investigation surrounding Rove. Why did you continue discussing Clintons sex life?
July 27th, 2005 at 1:53 pmConsidering Bush’s approval rating was 48% on election day according to that same poll, I would argue that it doesn’t mean crap. Of course, if you need to hang on to poll numbers to have something, I can understand. I am too busy emailing senators about voting yes for John Roberts to the Supreme Court.
My world = reality. Your world = last ray of hope. Truly pathetic.
July 27th, 2005 at 1:58 pmNED,
Considering that Bush won by ~2% of the vote, thanks for pointing out that the belief that the Diebold machines in many states simply ‘reversed’ who was winning. Who again lives in reality? The problem with NED is he believes if he says a lie long enough we’ve be as insane as he is in believing it… Frankly NED, we all see how pathetic and delusional you are, too bad you can’t see yourself…
Now NED, thanks for the hourly distraction – and lets all go back to the thread at hand.
Rove DID leak the name of a CIA agent according to multiple witnesses.
Rove LIED about this to a grand jury.
Rove is a TRAITOR and so is NED! NED, why do you hate america? You protect treason as though it’s your own acts – so you must hate that 52% of america (otherwise known as the majority) enough to actually put america’s security at risk. How sad it is that the traitors like NED always talk about patriotism – Benedict Arnold had a similar argument, funny how CONservatives of the 18th century look identical to those of the 21st century!
July 27th, 2005 at 2:06 pmI don’t hate America, I hate liberals because they cannot accept defeat. “Bush didn’t win – he stole the election” OR “50.7% of the country are morons.”
You people make Teresa Heinz Kerry look sober. No one cares about Karl – sorry. He’ll be gone in three years re: of what happens with Plamegate. I am focused on the bigger picture – taking the Courts back and undoing the damage you liars have done to the judiciary. So Ryan – go ahead and get Rove if it makes you feel good. It adds NOTHING to the debate, but more liberal invective.
July 27th, 2005 at 2:10 pmMost of Karen “Big Foot” Hughes’ duties will involve trying to bring some luster back to Bush’s tarnished image with the American people.
. . .
July 27th, 2005 at 2:13 pm#17 – yes because Bush is so ruined politically.
July 27th, 2005 at 2:15 pmNED,
Actually the majority of americans disagree with you, and the fact is that bush DID steal the election. Using the same techniques applied by the Pentagon to prove Ukraine had a stolen election showed the same thing in Ohio!
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/121604Z.shtml
The fact is that you live under a rock, and you’re a delusional whack job NED. Don’t you find it suspicious that bush was behind in all of the polls, yet he won the election by a narrow percentage? Don’t you find it suspicious that in states with newer diebold machines bush won even though he polled the same in states with older machines and he lost? Statistically and scientifically speaking there’s more proof of election fraud in the US than there was in the Ukraine – only avid faux news whack jobs like yourself don’t know this. I’ve seen it covered in many international press stories, in addition to several stories in the US with courageous journalists…
July 27th, 2005 at 2:19 pmAnd back to the point.
NED, it doesn’t matter what you think – the fact is that the CIA asked for an independent investigator because a crime was committed. At this point the only thing to be determined is how high it goes, what punishment is appropriate, and how many CONservative traitors should go to prison for the crimes!
July 27th, 2005 at 2:20 pmRyan – you are unbelievable. But, I should thank you nonetheless. The sh*t you are spewing will keep Republicans in power for years to come. If I am a whack job, you are a moron. Get a life and a cause please. You need serious help.
July 27th, 2005 at 2:21 pmNED,
Actually the ’state’ of the president affects mid term elections – or were you too stupid to know that as well. Having a ‘healthy’ president typically sways a mid term election for or against the current administration. So yes Christopher is right, and as usual you’re wrong…
July 27th, 2005 at 2:21 pmNortheast Dilemma wrote:
“I am focused on the bigger picture – …undoing the damage you liars have done…”
WMD
Saddam – Al Qaeda links
Iraq – 9/11 links
Yellowcake
“I never said her name”
“imminent attack by Iraq”
Yes, it’s always amusing when the Republican party talks about lying. It’s all a matter of degrees. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain, right? That Conservative invective is so much more rational…
July 27th, 2005 at 2:23 pmNED,
The truth is always unbelievable to the delusional CONservative.
Fascists never give up power willingly or through democratic means – so I believe that your commitment of Republicans to stay in power is real. They’ve clearly demostrated in the last 2 elections that they will resort to Fascist and 3rd world tactics to stay in power and go against democratic values – so I agree that your fascist brothers do intend to do whatever it takes to remain on top. Unfortunately they (and you) are traitors and treasonous individuals – most americans will not tolerate treason once they know of it!
July 27th, 2005 at 2:24 pmNeD,
why exactly do liberals have to accept defeat. If we think that were doing the wrong things were going to say something. If you don’t like us don’t post here. Noone is forcing you. I am sorry if we have a backbone and are willing to stand up for what we beveive in , but were not sheep like.
bush is screwing up and were telling him that.
July 27th, 2005 at 2:25 pm“If I am a whack job, you are a moron. ”
Actually you’re both a whack job and a moron NED, everyone here knows that – only you seem to not understand this…
July 27th, 2005 at 2:25 pmKrazny,
NED like most fascists don’t understand democratic principles or the will of minority voices to be heard. They certainly screamed loud about these principles when they were the minority, but they believe in winner take all when they’re in charge.
It’s just another example of how Fascism(CONservative) is a big CON that only talks about the principles of democracy as long as it serves their will and need for power. Bush said it most clearly when he said he’d prefer a dictatorship if he were the dictator. I as a liberal and a believer in democracy would NOT perfer a dictatorship, even if I were the dictator. Anyone and any party that believes this is unamerican, unpatriotic and undeserving to serve in any public capacity. Unfortunately right wing fascists like NED are typically like this…
July 27th, 2005 at 2:28 pmAnd NED says I’m whacked, yet I can point to cited references and statistical analysis that show he’s wrong, and all he can do is make wild stereotypical assertions that anyone with a baby primate brain can see is stupid. Wow if he could only see himself and how stupid he really looks among educated individuals – how sad it is….
July 27th, 2005 at 2:33 pmRyan – you people are the McCarthyists hit men for the left, NOT me. Talk to me November 2006 and see how much slander helps your cause. OUTLOOK – not good. People like you are the poster children for low political discourse. Just one thing – when Bush cleans your clock at the polls again – will you then leave the country as I am sure you promised, but never did during last election.
July 27th, 2005 at 2:33 pmNed you start the name calling and blow hard crap here, then tell us were responsible for poor political discourse?
take a look at your posts a good hard lookk.
July 27th, 2005 at 2:36 pmNED,
Funny you would bring up McCarthy. Considering that your values and your rhetoric so classically match him! Is he your hero?
To produce slander one must lie (but then you knew that being you being a compulsive liar and all didn’t you?). Actually I’m pointing out statistics and specific points of failure in policy your side is failing – you’re the stupid name calling lying bag of crap…
Actually I prefer that you leave the US since you’re an unpatriotic fascist – and take your fellow fascists with you, you have no place in ‘american’ politics…
July 27th, 2005 at 2:39 pmKrazny,
That’s NED’s tactic of trolling. Start name calling, spewing off topic crap, and accuse others of name calling and poor political discourse. This is the same thing Bush did against McCain in the 2000 election, and the same thing the swift boat smear and every other lying fascist unpatriotic and unamerican action the CONservatives do…
So back to the topic at hand, Karen Hughes is necessary for bush because turdblossom has shown that the CONservatives are treasonous traitors to the american people. If she doesn’t bring the soccer moms and security moms back into the fold – the 2006 election will swing hard to the left. This is the ‘fear’ of the NEDs of the world, and why they feel the need to so irrationally and violently come and spew their lying rhetoric. This story has legs – and they fear it!
July 27th, 2005 at 2:42 pmKranzy – please note Ryan started the name calling.
AND you are lying Ryan – Bush won. Get over it. If anyone cheated, I would say it was the Democrats who slashed tires in Wisconsin or were selling crack in Ohio for votes. So it is slander, my friend.
July 27th, 2005 at 2:43 pmJust one thing – when Bush cleans your clock at the polls again – will you then leave the country as I am sure you promised, but never did during last election.
Why should we leave just because Bush steals yet another rigged election, Neddy?
July 27th, 2005 at 2:44 pmNED,
You’re a delusional prick! You called us truly pathetic in post 14. You’re a moron and a liar! But you knew that didn’t you?
Once again a CONservative bold face lies! What a surprise!
July 27th, 2005 at 2:46 pmPlease don’t feed the trolls.
I know it isn’t easy to do but they aren’t contributing and it isn’t furthering any of us. If they won’t boot them here we just have to ignore them or go elsewhere.
July 27th, 2005 at 2:48 pmI am polling site – WHO THINKS BUSH STOLE THE 2004 ELECTION? I am dying to see if people actually people this sh*t. Ryan, I take is a yes. Anyone else?
July 27th, 2005 at 2:50 pmI believe that the shift from neo-con politics is going to get larger. More and more average americans are unhappy with bush, the war in Iraq, etc. Of course there is fear from the faithful. Fear has been pushed on them since the mid 80’s. Family values and christanity are under attack, liberals are going to force you to have an abortion, whatever comes to mind. bush is trying to appear more in the middle for the 2006 elections.
July 27th, 2005 at 2:51 pmWar, What War? Support Our Contractors
A MUST read at Steve Gilliard’s News Blog about how our troops get gouged in Iraq because the contractors are getting filthy rich. Support those troops, guys!
* Think Progress pulls out an interesting piece showing that once Karen Hughes left, Kar…
July 27th, 2005 at 2:51 pmNED,
Your comments about the election are nonsense. As I already stated on the other thread, the connection to the statistically stolen election are well established. The difference between the few isolated incidents committed by individuals and the widespread fraud perpetrated by the GOP machine is daylight and dark.
The GOP funded fake groups that signed up and threw away democratic registration and the people didn’t discover they weren’t registered to vote until registration day.
The GOP funded fake groups that registered democrats as republicans so they couldn’t vote in primaries.
The GOP controlled democratic areas and limited the number of voting machines in swing states so in the case of Ohio democratic areas had people waiting in line for HOURS to vote whereas in republican areas they could vote without waiting.
Areas that had newer voting machines showed a statistical anomoly that was inverse of what it was in areas of older machines – meaning that the machines ’switched’ the votes compared to the traditional machines.
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/121604Z.shtml
By the same techniques used to determine voter fraud in the Ukraine and trusted by THE PENTAGON – the election was PROVEN to have been stolen.
The fact that you believe a lie because it’s convenient for you to rationalize your fascist beliefs doesn’t make the lie a truth. The fact is the election was stolen. Most democratic politicians know this, but they also know that at this point the elections were ‘certified’, and getting them overturned is impractical. However it doesn’t change the FACTS – even though in your world of delusion I’m sure you’d like to believe you’re the ‘good guy’, when in fact you’re the problem!
July 27th, 2005 at 2:53 pmThere’s actually a LOT written about the election fraud being ‘whited out’ by folks like NED and his fellow american fascists who control the MSM.
http://www.truthout.org/docs_05/010405Y.shtml
http://www.truthout.org/cblog.shtml
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/112704D.shtml
Ned wants everyone to believe that they’re ‘gullible’ if they believe the election was stolen – but the statistics, analysis and facts prove that it was. It’s a hard reality for all americans (myself included) to believe that an american rooted fascist movement would stoop this low, and be so unamerican – but unfortunately it’s the truth…
July 27th, 2005 at 2:57 pmNED,
July 27th, 2005 at 3:00 pmWhat it is about Bush that makes you so vehemently devout?
The folks on this website just don’t like this administration. As I said previously, otherwise ambivilant voters have been polarized by these guys. What gives?
You love to hate people who hate to lose?
And NED,
I don’t just blame the shenanigans in Ohio with ’stealing’ the election. I blame the complicitous actions of the MEDIA in spreading the lies of the swift boat smear, and any number of other irresponsible acts of propaganda and lies that your side spread. As a whole I think lincoln would shudder in shame at the party of his legacy. The modern republican party has swung so far to the right that they’ve become truly fascist. It’s a sad and pathetic site to see the pupils of Leo Strauss (an admitted Nazi) become the leaders of this country. Strauss wasn’t just a CONservative HE WAS A NAZI and his values are represented in the NeoCon movement. The fact is we are under the rule of a fascist government and if the NeoCons have their way we’ll rapidly moving to a one party dictatorship unfortunately…
July 27th, 2005 at 3:06 pmI guess John Stewart was right about President Bush giving Karl Rove an award. Rove and Libby were both recently given pay raises. So to review, Don Rumsfeld and George Tenet btoh get metals for helping lie us into war, Condi Rice gets promoted for sleeping on a PDB that says, “bin Laden determined to strike US”, and Rove get a raise!
July 27th, 2005 at 3:09 pmdeegahl,
I have to hand it to Shrub for his consistency at reward incompetence! He must have learned that technique while he was bankrupting his 3 companies. It explains why they failed, and how he learned that reward brown nosing yes men was a ‘good idea’. How do you know you’re a failure at every job you’ve done when everyone’s busy patting you on the back while they make money off you. These ‘hanger on’ers’ often exist around old money families, but bush is stupid enough to not realize they’re toxic…
July 27th, 2005 at 3:13 pmND-
July 27th, 2005 at 3:16 pmget a copy of ‘The Corperation’.
‘nough said.
mike
Mike,
NED is like most CONservatives – they’re intentionally ignorant so they don’t have to feel bad about being such selfish fascists…
July 27th, 2005 at 3:19 pm#37
I do not believe that Bush stole the election. Period. If there was any reason to believe that he did, the press would be all over it. The MSM takes shots at Bush whenever they can and if there were any such conspiracy, I have no reason to believe it wouldn’t be on the front page of every newspaper in this country. Unfortunately, conspiracy theory is all liberals seem to have left in the way of ideas these days which is why they will continue to lose elections and their power base.
July 27th, 2005 at 3:30 pmthank you for proving the lack of liberal bias in the press steve. maybe it did not occur to you that the reason the supposedly liberal press is not all over it, is the press is not as liberal as you assert.
July 27th, 2005 at 3:33 pmSteve,
I recommend you read this article. Like most CONservatives you seem to have an opinion, but no facts.
http://www.truthout.org/docs_05/010405Y.shtml
Many members of the press was told to shut down the story – so frankly there’s a lot of facts which have been presented that PROVE the election was stolen. Some mainstream media have presented it, but the BIG corporate media won’t touch it because they’re told not to. Just like they won’t touch the whole Mercury causes Autism even though that has also been proven. They’re afraid of the ‘backlash’ of the truth…
July 27th, 2005 at 3:35 pmEven Ann Coulter admitted this weak that CONservatives now control the media – where were you Steve?
July 27th, 2005 at 3:35 pmreferendums on gays, fear of muslims= code for “moral values”.
July 27th, 2005 at 3:37 pmThat is how they stole election.
steve,
what ideas do you fascist have?
the MSM is owned by corperations whose heads are republican
contributers. the only reason the Rove traitor story has any air – is because some in the media were openly lied to and now they are somewhat embarassed. the msm is NOT liberal you moron – quit reporting that Nixon bullshit.
Come up with something original.
again what ideas do you fascist have?
give me one that does not involve trashing the environment,
tax cuts for those that least need it, raping/gutting social security, war for profit and world domination, cutting workers overtime, job outsourcing, ignoring the crisis in healthcare.
what ideas have you fascist brought?
- mike
July 27th, 2005 at 3:38 pmreferenda?
July 27th, 2005 at 3:40 pmMSM is not investigative media. Blogs are the only hope.
July 27th, 2005 at 3:41 pmbush43 definitely stole ‘00. All you need to do is look at Florida. But I don’t hink he stole ‘04. Granted, the paperless Diebold machines cast doubt. And I’m not saying funny stuff didn’t happen in Ohio, I’m quite sure it did.
But we do have 59,000,000 mental midgets in this country. And even though I voted for Kerry, he ran a shitty campaign. So, ithink it’s in democrats best interests to try and limit the damage bush43 can do for the remainder of his term. That includes:
1) borking Supreme Ct choices that aren’t reasonable. I don’t like Roberts views. I doubt he would be reasonable. I’m holding final judgement till I know more.
2) let’s not let him give the rich more tax deductions than he’s already given them. ie- the estate tax. We need to be very careful of ANY tax changes he makes.
3) let’s not let him get us into any more WARS! (I shouldn’t even have to say that one, but I will anyhow).
4) some environmental sensitivity. I know he is gung ho to off the Clean Air Act, The EPA, the Endangered Species Act. Let’s not let him.
Who wants to ad to the list? It’s all yours now folks.
July 27th, 2005 at 3:48 pmAre you using the exit poll data to claim the voter fraud? What makes you so sure that the exit poll was correct? Just suppose that it was rigged to show Kerry ahead. The media runs with this as they did on election day and tries to discourage Republican turnout since from the data it is obvious that Kerry will win. That to me, sounds like a conspiracy worth looking into. Trust me, if there were anything, I mean anything remotely wrong with the last election, the MSM would be all over it. The only people who think this way are left-wing wackos who have lost their power and don’t know what to do. Good luck on trying to find some direction.
July 27th, 2005 at 3:51 pmTo answer Ned’s question about the election: yes, I believe the 2004 election was stolen by Bush and also the 2000 election likewise. Ryan’s basic point is accurate: exit polls never failed in any election until Dubya started running for president.
Here is my thesis basis: Greg Palast broke the 2000 story while the recount was going on – and noone in the So-Called-Liberal-Media took up the story. He also correctly called the 2004 election weeks before it happened http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/3956129.stm#
Finally I leave you with Christopher Hitchens, no friend of John Kerry or Michael Moore and ardent Iraq war supporter: http://www.vanityfair.com/commentary/content/articles/050214roco05 – if you only have time for one, read Hitchens
If you want to get into the discussion (you too Ned and Steve, ‘bring it on’ I believe is the phrase – see if you can find a fact or two). http://oldamericancentury.org/bb/index.php?showtopic=1189
July 27th, 2005 at 3:56 pmMy implication was gay hating and fabricated “Homeland Security” alerts brought out an unprecedented number of sheep. You need to relax, Stevie.
July 27th, 2005 at 4:06 pmYou, after all, have the ball?
In answer to NED’s poll.
July 27th, 2005 at 4:06 pmI will never believe that the people of our country turned out in record numbers in ‘04 to vote for more of the same.
Oh yes: ‘conspiracy theory’. A theory is a hypothesis that fits or provides a reasonable explanation of known facts. A conspiracy is a group of people colluding to decieve. So yes, election 2000 and 2004 are conspiracy theories in the same way Einstein’s Theory of Relativity is a theory. I think the Japanese are convinced that E=mc2.
July 27th, 2005 at 4:11 pmYou sure you’re not using today’s environment for your baseline, Kieth? Things are exponentially more worse now than then.
July 27th, 2005 at 4:14 pmmore worse?
July 27th, 2005 at 4:15 pmAnd anyone who thinks that 2006 won’t go the same way as 2004 is delusional. I think your choice will be to take to the streets or your democracy is dead
July 27th, 2005 at 4:17 pmIf the media had not released the Bush DUI story just days before the election in 2000, how would the outcome have been different? I believe that several million voters may have stayed home because of it or worse yet, voted for Gore. What you saw in 2004, was the actual result of the 2000 election with no fraud committed in either. What you really say was how dirty politics can change the outcomes of elections. So stop with the conspiracy theories already. You are just wasting your time as I am here. There is no hope for any of you.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/12/01/opinion/main658540.shtml
July 27th, 2005 at 4:19 pmTerry,
July 27th, 2005 at 4:21 pmI tend to agree.
No question that the last two elections were stolen and the media was absolutely complicit. Plenty of evidence compiled by real investigative journalists, eyewitnesses, etc. The wingnuts had their diversionary tactics ready to go and they applied one of Rove’s most successful tactics during the lection: accuse them of the crime that you just committed. Hence, “the media was spinning the exit polling data in Kerry’s favor to discourage Republican voter turnout”. An unbelievable example of upside-down logic. Shameless but effective if the media will cover your ass….which they did.
The Republicans have mastered the art of stealing elections via voter suppression, intimidation, dissemination of misinformation, electronic vote stealing, and on and on and on. If democracy isn’t dead, it’s on life support.
July 27th, 2005 at 4:21 pmClearly, the people do not care about the behavior of leaders.
You think too much, Stevie.
Turtle is correct.
July 27th, 2005 at 4:24 pmBrian,
July 27th, 2005 at 4:26 pmWorse now, yes.
Horrible then as well.
According to CNN’s exit polling data on election night, Kerry won Ohio handily….but you know the Wally O’Dell factor and all.
http://www.exitpollz.org/
July 27th, 2005 at 4:33 pmIf Kerry had won, would there be any claim of voter fraud by Republicans? Probably not because we have honor and respect for democracy. If the Republicans have mastered such an art, they learned from the best. Look back to the 1960 election. If there ever was voter fraud committed it was then. JFK gets elected and then nominates his brother as attorney general? At least W didn’t do that.
July 27th, 2005 at 4:34 pmPeople cried when Stalin died, Keith. You’re giving people too much credit, Keith.
Stalin refused to have his picture taken with people taller than he. Bush refuses to have people smarter than he, which, is the most of us.
July 27th, 2005 at 4:36 pmJay,
Why are you so willing to believe the exit polling data? I don’t understand. Is it because it shows Kerry leading Bush? There were hundreds of polls showing the leads going back and forth for months. Why take this particular poll so seriously?
July 27th, 2005 at 4:40 pm#64 Steve. First question: I read your link – did you read my Hitchens link?
Second – Corn argues that statistics are not conclusive – that seems to be the whole of your refutal here. However, note that he has none of the information that Hitchens uses on the large numbers of questionable irregularities in Ohio and in Florida. See John Conyers on this subject: http://www.house.gov/judiciary_democrats/ohiostatusrept1505.pdf Since the White House has failed to respond to this – maybe you could on Dubya’s behalf.
July 27th, 2005 at 4:41 pmIf, probably, then, would there, blah blah blah…
July 27th, 2005 at 4:42 pmNeocons are scumbags, Stevie. They fought for gubernatorial in Wash. State.
Steve, you don’t understand exit polling if you ask that question – exit polls are polls which ask people HOW THEY VOTED. They are much more accurate than the lead up polls. To me they constitute a smoking gun not proof. Note how Dino Rossi employed demographics and polls to try and reverse the Wash Gov election.
July 27th, 2005 at 4:46 pmIf Kerry had won, would there be any claim of voter fraud by Republicans? Probably not because we have honor and respect for democracy.
I hope somebody else here can address this claim, as I’m laughing too hard to do it myself.
JFK gets elected and then nominates his brother as attorney general? At least W didn’t do that.
He can’t, as the relevant laws have been changed since then. Although I think we could agree to make an exception for brother Neil if there ever is an office of the Secretary of Prostitution.
July 27th, 2005 at 4:51 pmIf in exit polls, people are asked how they voted, how do you know the sample was representative of the population? If I asked a greater percentage of people wearing Kerry buttons, then I might get the results I want. Just because you want to believe there was voter fraud, doesn’t mean actually ever existed. I once believed in Santa Claus too you know. I can’t do this anymore, you all are wasting too much of my time and have lost your minds if you still believe this stuff.
July 27th, 2005 at 5:00 pmTo Brian regarding your question to NED in #41 “What it is about Bush that makes you so vehemently devout?”
Your question to NED is a good one and if he gives you a coherent answer, I’ll eat my keyboard. These guys never give straight answers to that type of question. Why did ANYONE vote for Bush? Except for the uneducated sheep types who only vote their party, I’ve never heard an intelligent answer to the question you posed. Good luck.
July 27th, 2005 at 5:09 pmSteve, the pollsters are professional statisticians, they have done this so often they know exactly how to sample. There are also a bunch of them who tend to correlate and if they are wrong – then they are out of business. Take the Germans for example: they are so convinced in the accuracy of exit polls that they use them to call the elections http://www.mysterypollster.com/main/2004/12/what_about_thos.html
This is not like watching the local weather man, you know. As you point out with the 1960 example – election fraud is nothing new here, it is foolish of you to argue that to fail to exmaine the evidence because you think it is a waste of time. Facts Steve, we are looking at facts here, or are you in the faith-based community that believes everything your government or the little electronic talking head in your living room tells you?
July 27th, 2005 at 5:09 pmI guess we should stop using exit polling to verify election results all over the world. Especially since we no longer want free and fair elections in any democracy that might not vote the way Washington wants.
An exit poll is a poll of voters taken immediately after they have exited the polling stations. Unlike an opinion poll, which asks who the voter plans to vote for or some similar formulation, an exit poll asks who the voter actually voted for. Pollsters – usually private companies working for newspapers or broadcasters – conduct exit polls to gain an early indication as to how an election has turned out, as the actual result may take hours to count (as in UK General Elections).
Exit polls have historically and throughout the world been used as “parallel vote tabulation”, as a check against and rough indicator of the degree of fraud in an election. Some examples of this include the Venezuelan recall referendum, 2004, the Ukrainian presidential election, 2004, and the 2004 U.S. presidential election controversy.
July 27th, 2005 at 5:13 pm“It’s not who votes that counts, but who counts the votes” – Josef Stalin
July 27th, 2005 at 5:15 pmSteve, you never answered my question – did you or did you not read Hitchens or Conyers. Or are you choosing to ignore facts inconvenient to your position?
July 27th, 2005 at 5:17 pm#37
I do not believe that Bush stole the election. Period. If there was any reason to believe that he did, the press would be all over it. The MSM takes shots at Bush whenever they can and if there were any such conspiracy, I have no reason to believe it wouldn’t be on the front page of every newspaper in this country. Unfortunately, conspiracy theory is all liberals seem to have left in the way of ideas these days which is why they will continue to lose elections and their power base.
Comment by steve
What do you expect from a brainwashed faux news watching moron. What is at play here is this guy would vote for the Klan, but they can’t get elected wearing the sheet, so they hang it up in the closet and run as Republicans. Steve just wants a white only America, or at least one in which the dark skinned people sound like him. He hates Rap music and public schools, and honestly believes all crime would dissappear if all liberals were jailed and liberal policies outlawed. Steve is a bigotted moron and probably commits crimes on a daily basis, but they are the “OK” crimes.
July 27th, 2005 at 5:19 pmSteve,
Exit polls were good enough for the state department and the Pentagon when assessing the Ukraine. Unless you believe that Ukranians are more honest in exit polls than americans, then your argument is bogus crap just like you. Why do you hate americans so much that you wouldn’t want us to have fair elections?
July 27th, 2005 at 5:25 pmSteve went to look for Santa Claus, I think
July 27th, 2005 at 5:29 pmsteve said:
Jay,
Why are you so willing to believe the exit polling data? I don’t understand. Is it because it shows Kerry leading Bush? There were hundreds of polls showing the leads going back and forth for months. Why take this particular poll so seriously?
Reply:
And that ladies and gentlemen is why we are where we are today. Good fvcking grief.
July 27th, 2005 at 6:33 pmSteve wrote:
“If Kerry had won, would there be any claim of voter fraud by Republicans? Probably not because we have honor and respect for democracy.”
Check again, Steve. The case is Bush v. Gore, not Gore v. Bush!!
July 27th, 2005 at 6:41 pmCONservatives have honor and respect for democracy? Bahahaha, that’s funny!!!! I lost a stitch on that one and I don’t even have stitches!
Gore won by popular votes in both the national and florida elections (as was proven post election by the miami herald). Bush didn’t respect ‘democracy’, and in fact he quickly pointed out we don’t have a democracy, we have a REPUBLIC which doesn’t honor popular opinion – and neither does he… And according to the post election analysis carried out both in the US and abroad, Kerry DID win, and that’s why people are upset! CONservatives are not only sore losers, they’re (you’re) sore winners! It’s not bad enough that you win with deceit, treachery and fraud – you then pretend like you have a mandate to be an ass! You’re such putzes!
July 27th, 2005 at 7:35 pmDiebold machines and Republican leadership are nothing more than Communistic/Fascist style methods of preventing democracy from actually occurring.
http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/1954/8556.html?1122497082
The Diebold machines continually show up anywhere there’s a voting controversy, and ironically the election commissions never seem to have a legitimate or even reasonable requests and responses to paper trails or other expected vote tabulation security measures. The fascists are in charge, and democracy has left the building…
July 27th, 2005 at 8:42 pmYou know the comic strip “Doonesbury”? Today’s strip was about Rove and his nickname “turd blossom”. Many newspapers are refusing to publish it.
Get your hands on papers that run it, it will be a collectors item..
Right on Doonesbury!
July 27th, 2005 at 9:00 pmWayyyyy off thread – NeD wins again. As soon as the phrase “Traitorgate” hit the page, he came in to derail us. Must be catchy! And y’all fell for it. What was the subject again?
July 28th, 2005 at 2:35 pmHere’s an idea – boycott NeD. From now on, when he weighs in, just say GO AWAY NeD!
And… do you suppose NeD and Steve are the same guy? If not, they should go off and start their own blog… NeD !!! You still haven’t answered my question!!!
July 28th, 2005 at 2:38 pmKarl Rove is the quintessential, unprincipled right wing hypocrite. When will the right wing stop whining and start living by the principles they claim to uphold (since they’ve seem to forgotten that would be truth, justice, faith, strength and, oh, dignity, but they rarely talk about that one)
Truth and Lies: Blog for A Better America: The Whiny Right Wing
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