Tancredo’s Slap on the Wrist
Tancredo’s Slap on the Wrist
When asked for reaction to the comments of Senator Dick Durbin (D-IL) about the treatment of detainees held at Guanatananmo Bay, the administration did not hesitate to attack the statements:
Q How do you take Senator Durbin’s comments? What’s your response to his comments?
THE VICE PRESIDENT: Well, this is, I’m sure, a family program, Steve. I have to be careful what I say. (Laughter.) I thought Durbin was totally out of line But I just — it was so far over the top that I’m just appalled that anybody who serves in the United States Senate would even think those thoughts.Q How is the President reacting to [Senator Durbin's comments]?
MR. McCLELLAN: I think the Senator’s remarks are reprehensible simply beyond belief.
So the question at today’s press briefing about the remarks of Rep. Tom Tancredo (R-CO) certainly seemed like a softball:
QUESTION: Representative Tom Tancredo recently suggested that taking out Muslim holy sites might be a good way to fight terrorism. Now, his statement has been showing up in newspapers throughout the Muslim world. Will the White House ask Mr. Tancredo to apologize and retract his statement as it did with Senator Durbin?
MCCLELLAN: Yes, I think the State Department actually addressed this issue right at the time and they expressed the views of the administration. The president has made very clear that it Islam is a religion that teaches peace and that it is a proud and great religion. And he stated his views on it.
A United States congressman calls for the bombing of Mecca and other Islamic holy sites, refuses to apologize, and this is the best McClellan could come up with. Bombing Mecca isn’t “reprehensible” or “simply beyond belief”?
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The first rule of politics is: there is no hypocrisy in politics.
The second rule of politics is: there is NO HYPOCRISY in politics.
The last rule of politics is: if this is your first time in politics, you’re not a hypocrite.
July 28th, 2005 at 2:53 pmThis Republican’s comments are being broadcast on al Jazeera. No more needs to be said about the motives of Republicans.
In other news, Tony Blair is preparing indictments after being attacked.
July 28th, 2005 at 3:02 pmTancredo is I believe from Colorado, not North Carolina.
July 28th, 2005 at 3:05 pmHypocrisy. Hypocrisy. Hypocrisy. Durbin reads from our own government reports and he is vilified, cursed and forced to his knees. Tancredo declares he could support the bombing of Mecca, but he is simply told his words were hyperbole. Where is Dick Cheney, the lying crook, who is so very quick to slam a Democrat for (what Cheney claims) inflammatory remarks? Is he in an undisclosed location? This group in power is making me sick. They lie, they fabricate, they deny the facts, they cover up and they get away with it. The Eddie Haskells rule the nation.
July 28th, 2005 at 3:23 pmOn the other hand, talk radio and the right side of the blogoshere generally have thoroughly condemned Tancredo in precisely the same terms they condemned Durbin. I personally wrote to both men, in turn, and told them that they were guilty of lending propaganda support to our enemies, that they were putting American troops in harm’s way, and that they did not deserve the sacrifices our troops are making to safeguard their rights to make fools of themselves. Tancredo, in particular, owes a special apology to every Muslim now serving in America’s armed forces.
July 28th, 2005 at 3:40 pmDick Durbin’s comments were read straight out of a US govt report. He should have known that his reading & comments would be twisted by the right to make it appear he was calling US soldiers nazi’s. That some of you ate it hook line & sinker shows your lack of insight.
Tancredo did it for political gain. He doesn’t just owe muslim soldiers an apology. He owes the ENTIRE WORLD and apology, and he better mean it too.
PS – I’m not gonna hold my breath waiting for the sob to apologize for anything.
July 28th, 2005 at 4:06 pmI’m sure some US soldier will die for the remark.
July 28th, 2005 at 4:16 pmThe Israelis spend more time spying on Israelis than Palestinians because they know the repercussions of the Dome being hit.
the point being JFG that while Tancredo’s remarks have been condemed, Durbins remarks which were far less inflammatory were run through the right wing noise machine, while tancredo’s remarks are barely mentioned.
July 28th, 2005 at 4:29 pmOne of these Muslim holy sites will no doubt soon be in Iraq, now that Islam is a permanent part of the constitution.
When the end game in Iraq is an Iran clone do you think the Republicans will blame the left for not alowing them to build a Disneyland there?
July 28th, 2005 at 4:37 pm[One of these Muslim holy sites will no doubt soon be in Iraq, now that Islam is a permanent part of the constitution.]
There are already significant Muslim holy sites in Iraq. That’s part of the reason that having Americans there twists Muslims up pretty badly.
July 28th, 2005 at 5:11 pmCynical,
Great point! If I had a dollar for every time a GOP’er said, “Al Jazzerra is running these comments to discredit America”, I would be a very rich. In fact, Bill O’reilly constantly says that the NYT articles about Abu Gharid and Dick Durbin’s comments are used by Al Jazzerra but he has some how failed to even mention Tancredo’s remarks much less make the Al Jazzerra reference.
July 28th, 2005 at 5:27 pmKraz, you obviously don’t listen to talk radio much – Tancredo has been blasted all over the place.
kindness, there was nothing in Durbin’s alleged FBI memo that described Gitmo prisoner treatment as comparable to Nazis, Soviet gulags and the Khmer Rouge. Even Durbin admits that those were his own “poor choice of words.” They were worse than that, of course, but at least he said that much.
I agree that Tancredo will likely not apologize, which is just as well if you think about it. Tancredo is a nut (whereas Durbin is just a down-and-dirty bareknuckles pol), so it’s better that he marginalizes himself now than to have people continue taking him seriously. And trust me, most people do not take Tom Tancredo very seriously.
PS, rumor has it that Durbin may face a stiff re-election fight against an ex-military GOP challenger. We may not have heard the last of Durbin’s “poor choice of words.”
July 28th, 2005 at 5:32 pm[...] Think Progress » Tancredo’s Slap on the Wrist [...]
July 28th, 2005 at 5:36 pmI don’t realy like talk radio it gets on my nerves after a while. I am okay with NPR but not much beyond that. I tried listening to Air America for a while, but despite the fact that I am a liberal at heart I thought it was a bit stupid and vapid. I tend to think the same thing about Limbaugh though so please forgive if I offend. Mostly I don’t think that talk radio adds anything to political debate.
July 28th, 2005 at 5:51 pmjfg – if you read the report and listen to Durbin’s exact words he states
“if you didn’t know this was ours you would think this was out of a nazi camp or soviet gulag”
JFG, have your read the report he was qoting? I have. He is correct. And saying that it sounds just like a nazi camp or soviet gulag isn’t the same as saying our troops are nazi’s.
Your putting words into everyone elses mouths & believing the worst of right wing spin. What we did there is horrible. Are you going to defend torture?
July 28th, 2005 at 6:26 pmOK I don’t want to come off as too harsh. MOst all of our boys (and girls) in the Armed Forces are noble and good people stuck in a very shitty job. I’m not calling them nazi’s.
But I’m not going to sugar coat torture and make it ok either. That’s were I’m coming from. for what it’s worth.
July 28th, 2005 at 6:39 pmdurbin was full of it, that was a BS email most likely from moveon.org, not the fbi, the defence department investagated it, said it was BS. tancredo on the other hand was right on the money, if you bothered to read the koran, you would see the truth about islam:
The roots of Islamic terrorism
July 28th, 2005 at 6:40 pmFundamentalism and fascism
Most commentators argue that Islamic terrorism is a fanatical perversion of Islam which deviates from its true teachings. They call for a Western-style modernization of the Muslim world, hoping thereby that radical Islam will be tamed.
This analysis misses the point. The nature of the terrorist threat is unambiguously Islamic and is not so much a deviation from Muslim tradition as an appeal to it. Al Qaeda’s ideology draws on two traditions to legitimize itself: one classical, the other modern.
Regarding classical Islam, the oft-quoted remark that Islam is a religion of peace is false. It is historically illiterate to claim that war is foreign to Islam and it is theologically uninformed to argue that jihad is merely a personal inner struggle with no external military correlate.
On the contrary, Islam is linked from the beginning with the practice of divinely sanctioned warfare and lethal injunctions against apostates and unbelievers. Islam experienced no period of wandering and exclusion; from its inception, Islam formed a unitary state bent on military conquest.
The Prophet died a successful military leader who created a single Islamic polity that expanded – through warfare – all over the known world. The caliphate combined the double logic of a religious community and an imperial state.
This dual identity explains how Islam can be simultaneously peaceful and warlike. While the Koran enjoins that there shall be “no compulsion in religion,” Islam still regards it as a holy duty to extend militarily the borders of the House of Islam against the demonic world of unbelievers: “He who dies without having taken part in a campaign dies in a kind of unbelief.”
Coupled with this irreconcilability between Islam and its enemies is an extreme territorial sense of the sacred. Hence bin Laden’s principal demand for the departure of all infidels from holy Muslim lands. When extremists say they are killing in the name of Islam, they are in part appealing to Islamic traditions of long standing. Al Qaeda’s modern origins go back to Wahhabism, named after the revivalist movement founded by Muhammad Ibn’Abd al-Wahhab in 1744. Wahhab called for a return to a pure and unadulterated form of Islam closer to the ideals of the Prophet.
Faced with a decadent society, Wahhabism (not unlike some radical Protestant sects) reduced Islam to a scriptural literalism, an absolutism utterly hostile to other more medieval traditions. In this sense of direct rule by God, Wahhabism is a truly modern theology. Not unlike Descartes and Kant, it argues for the unmediated and total knowledge of its object.
Al Qaeda then blended this theology with fascism. The Indian Muslim Abu Ala Maududi (1903-1979) condemned the degraded nature of all contemporary Muslim communities. He characterized Muslim governments that did not implement stringent Islamic law as apostate and commanded true believers to wage jihad against them.
Maududi was a decisive influence on Sayyid Qutb (1906-1966), chief ideologue of the Muslim Brotherhood. Like Maududi, Qutb fused the history of Mohammed’s travails with a revolutionary vanguard-type ideology that removed medieval limits on warfare by championing a modern death cult in the quest for a revivified caliphate.
The ideology instigated by these two figures is fuelled by dreams of a prior Islamic golden age. Al Qaeda sympathizers avidly read European fascist literature and pursue religious ends via atheist methods. Recruits to the cause are not the excluded uneducated poor, they are intellectuals with a radical critique of Western society and its impact on Islam.
Neither the “war on terror” nor political negotiations will overcome Islam’s totalitarian turn. Western repression is everywhere fuelling the ranks of radical Islam. Equally, there can be no accommodation with an ideology that seeks to fashion the whole world in its own image. The essentially Islamic nature of this terror demands nothing less than a reformation in the name of an alternative Islam.
Islam, with good reason, will never embrace Western secularization. But it could begin to develop a critique of its history by recovering some of its aborted traditions. Islam must place true religious conversion (like that of Sufism) over territorial conquest.
Islam needs to restore the legislative authority of communal consensus to allow Muslims to develop along with, rather than against, the future.
(Phillip Blond lectures in philosophy and religion at St. Martin’s College, Lancaster. Adrian Pabst is a research fellow at the Luxembourg Institute for European and International Studies.)
http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/07/27/opinion/edpabst.php
John Quincy Adams on Jihad War, Dhimmitude, and the Muslim View of Non-Muslims-
“As the essential principle of his faith is the subjugation of others by the sword; it is only by force, that his false doctrines can be dispelled, and his power annihilated.
They [The Russians] have been from time immemorial, in a state of almost perpetual war with the Tatars, and with their successors, the Ottoman conquerors of Constantinople. It were an idle waste of time to trace the causes of each renewal of hostilities, during a succession of several centuries. The precept of the Koran is, perpetual war against all who deny, that Mahomet is the prophet of God. The vanquished may purchase their lives, by the payment of tribute; the victorious may be appeased by a false and delusive promise of peace; and the faithful follower of the prophet, may submit to the imperious necessities of defeat: but the command to propagate the Moslem creed by the sword is always obligatory, when it can be made effective. The commands of the prophet may be performed alike, by fraud, or by force. Of Mahometan good faith, we have had memorable examples ourselves. When our gallant [Stephen] Decatur ref had chastised the pirate of Algiers, till he was ready to renounce his claim of tribute from the United States, he signed a treaty to that effect: but the treaty was drawn up in the Arabic language, as well as in our own; and our negotiators, unacquainted with the language of the Koran, signed the copies of the treaty, in both languages, not imagining that there was any difference between them. Within a year the Dey demands, under penalty of the renewal of the war, an indemnity in money for the frigate taken by Decatur; our Consul demands the foundation of this pretension; and the Arabic copy of the treaty, signed by himself is produced, with an article stipulating the indemnity, foisted into it, in direct opposition to the treaty as it had been concluded. The arrival of Chauncey, with a squadron before Algiers, silenced the fraudulent claim of the Dey, and he signed a new treaty in which it was abandoned; but he disdained to conceal his intentions; my power, said he, has been wrested from my hands; draw ye the treaty at your pleasure, and I will sign it; but beware of the moment, when I shall recover my power, for with that moment, your treaty shall be waste paper. He avowed what they always practised, and would without scruple have practised himself. Such is the spirit, which governs the hearts of men, to whom treachery and violence are taught as principles of religion.�
Sir Winston Churchill, from The River War, first edition, Vol. II, pages 248-50 (London: Longmans, Green & Co., 1899).-
“How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities – but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome.”
July 28th, 2005 at 6:41 pmSHEIKH KHALID YASIN: Our message is to young people, young brothers and sisters  trust is sacred, and how can you put a sacred trust in the hands of a non-Muslim that doesn’t understand what that sanctity is about?
PETER OVERTON: My journey into the world of Islam began here  a suburban town hall in Sydney.
SHEIKH KHALID YASIN: I like to talk like one of you.
PETER OVERTON: These are young Muslims and they’re Australian. Most of them were born here. But the message they were hearing was of a world that sounds so alien to so many of us.
SHEIKH KHALID YASIN: There’s no such thing as a Muslim having a non-Muslim friend, so a non-Muslim could be your associate but they can’t be a friend. They’re not your friend because they don’t understand your religious principles and they cannot because they don’t understand your faith.
PETER OVERTON: Sheikh Khalid Yasin is not an enemy of the Western world but nor is he a friend. For him, Muslims and non-Muslims will be forever divided.
SHEIKH KHALID YASIN: Australians have to wake up and smell the coffee. To what extent do people expect that people assimilate to where it gets to the point where you actually want me to imitate?
PETER OVERTON: Khalid was born in America and was once a patriot. He served in Vietnam, but then converted to Islam. Now he’s a true believer in the Koran, an uncompromising disciple of its strict justice system, travelling the world to spread his message. This is what he believes men should do to wives who disobey.
SHEIKH KHALID YASIN: The verse says (speaks Arabic). Specifically, this means, if you take that word literally, it means literally beat them lightly, like I would my child. Like that or like that.
http://sixtyminutes.ninemsn.com.au/sixtyminutes/stories/2005_07_24/story_1455.asp
July 28th, 2005 at 6:47 pmFBA,
Considering the ‘christendom’ has been at war with the rest of the world since rome was ‘christened’, this is frankly nonsense. The ‘powerful’ and the ‘greedy’ (eg. you) always subvert religion, no matter how ‘peaceful’ it is. Christ chose to die rather than to fight the romans, an ultimate act of pascifism – yet you like most chicken hawks defend war. You are no more a ‘christian’ than islamic terrorist are ‘islamic’. I don’t see them as different from you – I see them as cut from the same radical insane cloth! You aren’t fighting what they stand for, you’re fighting them because they’re just like you!
July 28th, 2005 at 7:15 pm[...] McClellan lays down the law. [...]
July 28th, 2005 at 9:33 pmChristians can only be friends with Christians.
July 28th, 2005 at 10:44 pmJesus divides families along party lines.
Abraham religions destroy life.
kindness: You make my point. The report didn’t use the words “Nazi” or “gulag” – Durbin chose those words to make a general characterization of our troops based on the report’s description of a few instances of alleged abuse.
Some of those allegations were confirmed, and some weren’t, but Durbin was way out of line to suggest – as he clearly did – that the alleged conduct was representative of all military interrogations at Gitmo or any other U.S. military prison.
Even Durbin now agrees that he was out of bounds. He didn’t tearfully sort-of-apologize on the Senate floor because he wanted to. He did it because he knew he was wrong and that he had to do something to save his political bacon.
BTW #1: If Durbin’s name had been “Trent Lott” he would no longer hold the No. 2 minority leadership post in the Senate. Overall he got off light.
BTW #2: There is no doubt in my mind that Tom Tancredo is even dumber than either Dick Durbin or Tent Lott. At least those two dimwits had the eventual good sense to sort-of-apologize. Lott even made an embarassing appearance on Black Entertainment Television, for crying out loud. But Tancredo is a hard core shoe leather nut case. He’s too dumb to know when he’s swallowed both feet.
But I digress. Let’s look at what you call “torture”: Not more than a dozen confirmed instances of sleep deprivation; physical comfort deprivation; bathroom access restriction; heater and air conditioning manipulation; and forced use of girly underwear. No prisoner has died from these techniques; only a few have even been humiliated. Those prisoners have given us very valuable intelligence, and intelligence saves lives.
In the meantime, hundreds of enemy combatants have gone through Gitmo, enjoying the benefit of special religious observance accommodations, special religious dietary accommodations (how do you like your orange chicken on rice with broccoli, Mr. Jihad?), and oh, yes, AIR CONDITIONING!
Something tells me that any randomly selected group of former “guests” of the Nazis, the Soviets or the Khmer Rouge would consider these things the equivalent of a trip to Club Med. The guys in the Hanoi Hilton endured far worse treatment, and they sure didn’t get to eat orange chicken on rice in air conditioned cells! So a little perspective is in order here. There is humiliation and discomfort at Gitmo, but there is no “torture.”
War is an ugly thing, kindness, and torture is one of its ugliest features. I generally agree that prisoners who cooperate with us should be treated humanely. But, since you asked, I also support whatever interrogation techniques are needed to get life-saving intelligence from an uncooperative terrorist. The more critical the information, and the greater the number of lives at risk, the tougher the measures I would permit to be used to break the prisoner. In my view, the terrorists started this war, and the sooner we finish it, the better for everyone, including most of the terrorists.
BTW #3: I don’t give a fig about the Geneva Convention, because even the terrorists agree that it doesn’t apply.
July 28th, 2005 at 11:03 pmKraz: At least we agree on one thing – Air America IS stupid and vapid. But if you only listen to NPR you are AWOL from today’s national political dialogue. I can understand why Rush might not be your cup of tea. He is an acquired tase, even for many conservatives. And you DEFINITELY should avoid Michael Savage. That guy is as rude as they come.
My favorite program is the Hugh Hewitt show (check out his website at http://www.hughhewitt.com). His regular guests include Frank Gaffney, Fred Barnes and Mort Kondracke, plus an assortment of unknowns with special expertise. The show has a definite conservative POV, but Hugh does a good job of bringing in voices from both the left and the right, and then letting his listeners decide who is right. Plus he devotes regular segments to discussions of movies, poetry and Shakespeare. Plus he’s a long-suffering Cleveland sports fan, so he gets points for perseverance. Check him out – you might like him.
July 28th, 2005 at 11:17 pmRyan Neat, sure Christianity has not evolved at all, what was I thinking. They are just alike, foget Eric Randolph, who was put in jail by fellow Christians, right. Thanks for pointing out you know nothing about Christianity, I would be offended by your mischaracterization, but I’m not a Christian, nor am I a Jew. Those facts and your complete lack of knowledge of the history of Christianity does not change the fact islam is what it is. mecca is the only thing on this Earth they care about, their children? not important. wives? get a clue. they hide behind them both to shoot at our troops. bomb other muslims to make their points. Political correctness may kill you, but not me and mine, we know what we are up against. You know nothing. I love how you call us all chickenhawks, as though you know what we do, have done or anything else, like the military is made up of poor libs who just wanted college money, LOL. I’m powerful and greedy to boot, stop your gonna make me cry
July 29th, 2005 at 12:24 am: ( And brian thinks Xtians can only be freinds with Xtians? You 2 should get out more, 2 of many commie stooges who have no commie masters now and are cuddling up to jihadists who will gladly slit your throats, but youre scared of the president? morons. 2 more reasons to have to pass an IQ test to vote. I can see you both trying to reason with convicts in a prison, “I never did anything to you man, stop it, we can be friends!”
So much for cairs fatwa:
July 28, 2005
The American Islamic Leaders’ “Fatwa” is Bogus
Steven Emerson
The Investigative Project on Terrorism
This morning a group of American Islamic leaders held a press conference to announce a fatwa, or Islamic religious ruling, against “terrorism and extremism.â€? An organization called the Fiqh Council of North America (FCNA) issued the fatwa, and the Council on American – Islamic Relations (CAIR) organized the press conference, stating that several major U.S. Muslim groups endorsed the fatwa.
In fact, the fatwa is bogus. Nowhere does it condemn the Islamic extremism ideology that has spawned Islamic terrorism. It does not renounce nor even acknowledge the existence of an Islamic jihadist culture that has permeated mosques and young Muslims around the world. It does not renounce Jihad let alone admit that it has been used to justify Islamic terrorist acts. It does not condemn by name any Islamic group or leader. In short, it is a fake fatwa designed merely to deceive the American public into believing that these groups are moderate. In fact, officials of both organizations have been directly linked to and associated with Islamic terrorist groups and Islamic extremist organizations. One of them is an unindicted co-conspirator in a current terrorist case; another previous member was a financier to Al-Qaeda.
I spoke with Judea Pearl, father of murdered journalist Daniel Pearl who told me that the fatwa was “vacuous because it does not name the perpetrators of Islamic terrorist theologies and leaders of Islamic movements like Yousef Al Qaradawi, Osama Bin Laden, Ayman Al Zawahari, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, etc.� Pearl told me that these groups are “trying to perpetrate a deception on the American public.�
Officials of both groups have been linked to various terrorist organizations:
The Chairman of the Fiqh Council, Taha Jaber Al-Alwani, is an unindicted co-conspirator in the case against Sami al-Arian, the alleged North American leader of Palestinian Islamic Jihad, whose trial began in June 2005 in Tampa, Florida. Mr. Alwani has been named in court documents as an official of several entities in northern Virginia suspected of being connected to terrorist financing. Documents released in the Al Arian trial show that Alwani funded the Islamic Jihad front groups in Tampa.
Another past trustee of the Fiqh Council, Abdurrahman Alamoudi, is serving a 23-year prison sentence for illegal financial dealings with Libya and immigration fraud, has admitted to his part in a plot to assassinate the Saudi Crown Prince, and has vocally announced his support for the terrorist groups Hamas and Hezbollah. Additionally Alamoudi was just named by Treasury as having been a financier for Al Qaeda.
In 1998, Fiqh Council member Sheikh Muhammad al-Hanooti, gave a speech calling for jihad against the United States and the United Kingdom, saying that “Allah will curse the Americans and British� and “Allah, the curse of Allah will become true on the infidel Jews and on the tyrannical Americans.� Additionally, Hanooti is strongly linked to Hamas, having served on the board of the Islamic Association for Palestine (IAP). A 2002 INS memo extensively documented IAP’s support for HAMAS and noted that the “facts strongly suggest� that IAP is “part of HAMAS’ propaganda apparatus.�
On October 28, 2000, Muzammil Siddiqui, the President of FCNA, at a rally in Lafayette Park in Washington D.C., said, “America has to learn — if you remain on the side of injustice, the wrath of God will come!”
In the past 4 years, several CAIR officials have been convicted of or charged with various terrorism-related offenses.
CAIR has championed and defended officials of Islamic terrorist groups including Hamas leader Musa Abu Marzook, Palestinian Islamic Jihad leader Sami al-Arian, Palestinian Islamic Jihad fundraiser Fawaz Damra, and the radical Egyptian cleric Wagdy Ghoneim.
CAIR has repeatedly attacked the prosecutions of Islamic terrorists arrested and/or convicted since 9-11 and has attacked the government’s freezing of Islamic terrorist fronts as part of a “war against Islam� by the United States.
CAIR has led protests against the deportation of radical Islamic clerics who have called for Jihad or who have been fundraisers for Hamas.
CAIR has asserted that the indictment of Palestinian Islamic Jihad leader Sami al-Arian on conspiracy to murder more than 100 people was “politically motivated� and instigated by “the attack dogs of the pro-Israeli lobby.
CAIR has been named as a defendant in a civil lawsuit filed by the family of former FBI official John O’Neill, who was killed on 9-11.
One of the signatories to today’s fatwa is Fawaz Damra who was convicted of immigration fraud related to his ties to Palestinian Islamic Jihad and denaturalized. He is currently awaiting a deportation hearing.
Another signatory, the Muslim American Society, is a front for the Muslim Brotherhood in the United States and whose publications have repeatedly supported suicide bombings.
July 29th, 2005 at 12:49 amhttp://counterterror.typepad.com/the_counterterrorism_blog/2005/07/the_american_is.html
Pierre Rehov, a French filmmaker who has filmed six documentaries on the intifada by going undercover in the Palestinian areas. Pierre’s upcoming film, “Suicide Killers,” is based on interviews that he conducted with the families of suicide bombers and would-be bombers in an attempt to find out why they do it.
What inspired you to produce “Suicide Killers,� your seventh film?
I started working with victims of suicide attacks to make a film on PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder) when I became fascinated with the personalities of those who had committed those crimes, as they were described again and again by their victims. Especially the fact that suicide bombers are all smiling one second before they blow themselves up.
Why is this film especially important?
People don’t understand the devastating culture behind this unbelievable phenomenon. My film is not politically correct because it addresses the real problemâ€â€showing the real face of Islam. It points the finger against a culture of hatred in which the uneducated are brainwashed to a level where their only solution in life becomes to kill themselves and kill others in the name of a God whose word, as transmitted by other men, has became their only certitude.
What insights did you gain from making this film? What do you know that other experts do not know?
I came to the conclusion that we are facing a neurosis at the level of an entire civilization. Most neuroses have in common a dramatic event, generally linked to an unacceptable sexual behavior. In this case, we are talking of kids living all their lives in pure frustration, with no opportunity to experience sex, love, tenderness or even understanding from the opposite sex. The separation between men and women in Islam is absolute. So is contempt toward women, who are totally dominated by men. This leads to a situation of pure anxiety, in which normal behavior is not possible. It is no coincidence that suicide killers are mostly young men dominated subconsciously by an overwhelming libido that they not only cannot satisfy but are afraid of, as if it is the work of the devil. Since Islam describes heaven as a place where everything on earth will finally be allowed, and promises 72 virgins to those frustrated kids, killing others and killing themselves to reach this redemption becomes their only solution.
What was it like to interview would-be suicide bombers, their families and survivors of suicide bombings?
It was a fascinating and a terrifying experience. You are dealing with seemingly normal people with very nice manners who have their own logic, which to a certain extent can make sense since they are so convinced that what they say is true. It is like dealing with pure craziness, like interviewing people in an asylum, since what they say, is for them, the absolute truth. I hear a mother saying “Thank God, my son is dead.” Her son had became a shaheed, a martyr, which for her was a greater source of pride than if he had became an engineer, a doctor or a winner of the Nobel Prize. This system of values works completely backwards since their interpretation of Islam worships death much more than life. You are facing people whose only dream, only achievement is to fulfill what they believe to be their destiny, namely to be a shaheed or the family of a shaheed. They don’t see the innocent being killed, they only see the impure that they have to destroy.
You say suicide bombers experience a moment of absolute power, beyond punishment. Is death the ultimate power?
Not death as an end, but death as a door open to the after life. They are seeking the reward that God has promised them. They work for God, the ultimate authority, above all human laws. They therefore experience this single delusional second of absolute power, where nothing bad can ever happen to them, since they become God’s sword.
Is there a suicide bomber personality profile? Describe the psychopathology.
Generally kids between 15 and 25 bearing a lot of complexes, generally inferiority complexes. They must have been fed with religion. They usually have a lack of developed personality. Usually they are impressionable idealists. In the western world they would easily have become drug addicts, but not criminals. Interestingly, they are not criminals since they don’t see good and evil the same way that we do. If they had been raised in an Occidental culture, they would have hated violence. But they constantly battle against their own death anxiety. The only solution to this deep-seated pathology is to be willing to die and be rewarded in the after life in Paradise.
Are suicide bombers principally motivated by religious conviction?
Yes, it is their only conviction. They don’t act to gain a territory or to find freedom or even dignity. They only follow Allah, the supreme judge, and what He tells them to do.
Do all Muslims interpret jihad and martyrdom in the same way?
All Muslim believers believe that, ultimately, Islam will prevail on earth. They believe this is the only true religion and their is no room, in their mind, for interpretation. The main difference between moderate Muslims and extremists is that moderate Muslims don’t think they will see the absolute victory of Islam during their life time, therefore they respect other beliefs. The extremists believe that the fulfillment of the Prophecy of Islam and ruling the entire world as described in the Koran, is for today. Each victory of Bin Laden convinces 20 million moderate Muslims to become extremists.
Describe the culture that manufactures suicide bombers.
Oppression, lack of freedom, brain washing, organized poverty, placing God in charge of daily life, total separation between men and women, forbidding sex, giving women no power whatsoever, and placing men in charge of family honor, which is mainly connected to their women’s behavior.
What socio-economic forces support the perpetuation of suicide bombings?
Muslim charity is usually a cover for supporting terrorist organizations. But one has also to look at countries like Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Iran, which are also supporting the same organizations through different networks. The ironic thing in the case of Palestinian suicide bombers is that most of the money comes through financial support from the Occidental world, donated to a culture that utterly hates and rejects the West (mainly symbolized by Israel).
Is there a financial support network for the families of the suicide bombers? If so, who is paying them and how does that affect the decision?
There used to be a financial incentive in the days of Saddam Hussein ($25,000 per family) and Yasser Arafat (smaller amounts), but these days are gone. It is a mistake to believe that these families would sacrifice their children for money. Although, the children themselves who are very attached to their families, might find in this financial support another reason to become suicide bombers. It is like buying a life insurance policy and then committing suicide.
Why are so many suicide bombers young men?
As discussed above, libido is paramount. Also ego, because this is a sure way to become a hero. The shaheeds are the cowboys or the firemen of Islam. Shaheed is a positively reinforced value in this culture. And what kid has never dreamed of becoming a cowboy or a fireman?
What role does the U.N. play in the terrorist equation?
The UN is in the hands of Arab countries and third world or ex-communists countries. Their hands are tied. The UN has condemned Israel more than any other country in the world, including the regime of Castro, Idi Amin or Kaddahfi. By behaving this way, the UN leaves a door open by not openly condemning terrorist organizations. In addition, through UNRWA, the UN is directly tied to terror organizations such as Hamas, representing 65 percent of their apparatus in the so-called Palestinian refugee camps. As a support to Arab countries, the UN has maintained Palestinians in camps with the hope to “return” into Israel for more than 50 years, therefore making it impossible to settle those populations, which still live in deplorable conditions. Four-hundred million dollars are spent every year, mainly financed by U.S. taxes, to support 23,000 employees of UNRWA, many of whom belong to terrorist organizations (see Congressman Eric Cantor on this subject, and in my film “Hostages of Hatred”).
You say that a suicide bomber is a ‘stupid bomb and a smart bomb’ simultaneously. Explain what you mean.
Unlike an electronic device, a suicide killer has until the last second the capacity to change his mind. In reality, he is nothing but a platform representing interests which are not his, but he doesn’t know it.
How can we put an end to the madness of suicide bombings and terrorism in general?
Stop being politically correct and stop believe that this culture is a victim of ours. Radical Islamism today is nothing but a new form of Nazism. Nobody was trying to justify or excuse Hitler in the 1930s. We had to defeat him in order to make peace one day with the German people.
Are these men traveling outside their native areas in large numbers? Based on your research, would you predict that we are beginning to see a new wave of suicide bombings outside the Middle East?
Every successful terror attack is considered a victory by the radical Islamists. Everywhere Islam is expands there is regional conflict. Right now, their are thousands of candidates for martyrdom lining up in training camps in Bosnia, Afghanistan, Pakistan. Inside Europe, hundreds of illegal mosques are preparing the next step of brain washing to lost young men who cannot find a satisfying identity in the Occidental world. Israel is much more prepared for this than the rest of the world will ever be. Yes, there will be more suicide killings in Europe and the U.S. Sadly, this is only the beginning.
http://counterterror.typepad.com/the_counterterrorism_blog/2005/07/interview_with_.html#more
July 29th, 2005 at 12:59 amYou think you’re telling us something new, fake?
Now go back in time and tell Ronald Reagan, because that might help. Your lack of understanding of Islam is clearly outmatched by your lack of understanding of liberality.
I’ll tell you something new. Bush’s policies are not popular among people who attended memorial services for Daniel Pearl.
July 29th, 2005 at 1:07 amJFG,
July 29th, 2005 at 1:19 amYou’re wrong, Amnesty International called Gitmo a gulag and Durbin was quoting that report.
You’re right, the terrorists (Bush, Cheney, Rice and Rumsfeld) started this war. They did it in spite of moral, national and international prohibitions. They’ve killed and maimed tens of thousands of innocent people in Afghanistan and Iraq and, hopefully, some day they’ll pay for their war crimes.
Torture is a fact. We do it — it’s been documented and more evidence is coming. The rules of war apply (but not to us, you say).
Hughhewitt.com is a website I visit when I want to read what a privileged white lawyer in Orange County California (the home of Bomber Bob Dornan) has to say about other stuffy lawyers who have never left the United States and really think that we are god’s chosen people, fortunate to be led by an elite corps of fascists.
Finally, there is such a thing as international law, recognized by our own law, and it does apply — which is why we won’t belong to the World Court. We’ll put some Slav or Panamanian through the wringer but we’re above the law because we’re special, don’t you know. We sophisticated terrorists can kill thousands with our own form of high-tech terror — cluster bombs, napalm, c-130 gunships, and all that fab stuff while those lo-tech terorists are stuck with suicide bombs — what jerks.
So it’s all Reagan’s fault? LoL, yes hippy, the religion of high explosives is just misunderstood. Hippy you know it all. I’ll vote dhimmicrat from now on. Dude, I was a liberal for over 30 years, like I don’t understand liberals, get a freaking clue. Like wow man, you don’t know me at all. You on the other hand, I doubt have every been a Republican, though you claim to understand us. You would be embarrassed if you were smarter. And you didn’t read a word I posted I would bet, but that didn’t stop you from commenting. Why would you, you can’t learn from others, you know all.
July 29th, 2005 at 1:28 amDon, you don’t have a clue what you are talking about, Durbin was reading from what he said was an fbi memo, it was not, it was an email, he made the comparison, himself, it was not in the email. It was BS. Like your post. I know you guys hate facts like they are kryptonite, but read it if you dare:
Military investigators did not substantiate major charges of prisoner abuse contained in one FBI agent’s e-mail that was read on the Senate floor by Minority Whip Richard J. Durbin as an example of U.S.-sanctioned torture at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.
The unnamed FBI agent wrote that she saw one al Qaeda suspect lying in his own excrement, that he had pulled out his own hair and that he had no food and water. The female agent also said he was shackled to the floor and subjected to loud rock music and to extreme temperatures.
Mr. Durbin, of Illinois and the Senate’s No. 2 Democrat, read the e-mail June 14 in a speech attacking the Bush administration. He then likened Guantanamo interrogation techniques to the Nazis, Josef Stalin’s prisoner gulag, Pol Pot and the internment of Japanese during World War II. He later issued an apology on the Senate floor.
Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman John W. Warner, Virginia Republican, rebuked Mr. Durbin in a Senate debate for reading, as fact, a raw FBI report, the charges in which had not yet been investigated.
That investigation was completed last week by Air Force Lt. Gen. Randall M. Schmidt, who commands the 12th Air Force, the air component of U.S. Southern Command, which oversees the 520-inmate prison at the U.S. Naval Base at Guantanamo.
Gen. Schmidt wrote in his report, “Another FBI agent stated she witnessed a detainee short shackled and lying in his own excrement. The [investigation] was unable to find any documentation, testimony, or other evidence corroborating the third agent’s recollection to this allegation or her e-mail allegation that one of the detainees had pulled his hair out while short shackled.”
The Schmidt report also said, “We discovered no evidence to support the allegation that the detainees were denied food and water.”
In all, Gen. Schmidt said he found no evidence of torture, but did find cases of aggressive interrogations of reputed al Qaeda and Taliban members captured in Afghanistan.
Joe Shoemaker, Mr. Durbin’s spokesman, said Friday it is inaccurate to say the charges were disproved because investigators never talked to the FBI agent who wrote the e-mail or to some jail personnel who have since left active duty and declined to talk.
Mr. Durbin issued a statement that said, in part:
“Many aspects of the report made public today are troubling. This is yet another report that fails to examine the decision by administration officials related to torture policy. The report did not review the legality of abusive interrogation techniques that the secretary of defense explicitly approved. It did not address objections by the FBI … that these techniques are unconstitutional and ineffective. Instead, the investigation engaged in circular reasoning — if an interrogation technique was approved by the Department of Defense, this report found such a technique does not constitute abuse. In other words, the secretary of defense decides what the law is.”
Army Brig. Gen. John T. Furlow, a lead investigator, told Mr. Warner at a hearing last week that the FBI agent was on an unspecified classified “project” and was not available for an interview. Mr. Warner said she should have been tracked down.
“Yes, sir. It was considered, but it was not done,” Gen. Furlow answered. “But, in the context of those allegations, through review in the methodology, reviewing the logs, interviewing other FBI agents and DoD personnel, we were not able to substantiate those two allegations.”
Gen. Schmidt testified his team made “five or six attempts to get to her. She was not made available.”
Steve Lucas, a Southern Command spokesman, said the agent is being made available for an interview “very shortly.”
Investigators interviewed 30 FBI agents and more than 100 prison personnel.
Investigators confirmed two charges in the FBI e-mail: that inmates were shackled to the floor and were subjected to loud music. The report said two detainees were shackled briefly to protect prison guards, but that the practice was not authorized and was discontinued. One inmate was subjected to a hot and cold cell on “several occasions,” in 2002 and 2003.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20050718-122024-7366r_page2.htm
July 29th, 2005 at 1:43 amYou’re staring at the stars and makin’ yer own constellations, FBA.
July 29th, 2005 at 8:21 amRemember: “Guns don’t kill people, Christians Jews and Muslims kill people”
My definition of a Christian is one who believes in the rapture. Many “Christians” believe in Jesus and his word of righteousness, but in reality think the snake handlers are rightly crazy. You a snake handler, FBA?
July 29th, 2005 at 8:35 amThanks all for your voices. It’s places like this where we can ALL be heard. Spin will still occur but it is easier to see through it.
JFG – you comprehended something completely different from what I wrote. Plus, you never addressed wheter or not you think torture is a valid instrument of state.
For the record: I think using torture hurts us more in the long run than helps us in the short run. Dumbya squandered all the moral and political high ground we got after 9/11 with so many things. I’m against torture for several reasons.
1) we are supposed to be representing a higher ideal to the rest of the world. We can’t subjugate the entire world with military force or dollars, we need them to conciously make a choice to go our way because of what we stand for.
2) It’s gonna come back to boomerang against the men and women in the armed forces. How are you going to say our people shouldn’t be treated that way when we apparently do it. I don’t care whether or not the Geneva Convention technically applies. This is a moral and spiritual decision on my part.
3) I’m not against using coercion or some level of discomfort in certain instances. We’ve all seen that bushco RAN not Walked over the line that separates what is OK with what isn’t. Then he lied about it (par for all those who say things against this administration).
Spin it however you want. In your moral universe lying and torturing people is OK. It isn’t in mine.
July 29th, 2005 at 10:20 amJesus said we should love our enemies, and do unto others as you would have them do unto you. If Jesus were married, Karl Rove would have outed his wife by now.
During the Clinton presidency, Rush Limbaugh spent quite a lot of time telling jokes describing the first lady having oral sex. If that’s an “acquired taste” then I’d rather not acquire it.
July 29th, 2005 at 12:25 pmFranken is a smart cookie. So is Dianne Rehm.
July 29th, 2005 at 1:01 pmFBA, you are a fine example of the narrow minded hypocrites who are the Republican party. Parsing words, parsing facts. Claiming an entire story is invalid because it wasn’t a “memo” it was an “Email.” You are sick. And you are making me sick.
July 29th, 2005 at 1:04 pmExplain how Bush would remove anyone who “leaked” from the White house, but now he said anyone who is “convicted.”
These guys are traitors — selling our country to the highest bidder — and keeping all profits for themselves.
Close-minded, drinkers of the Kool-Aid – that’s what the Bush-lovers are.
You are unable to see that he is the Jimmy Jones of the century.
JFG,
email or memo, Amnesty International called Gitmo a gulag, and that’s what Durbin was quoting. Please don’t insult our intelligence with a bunch of stuff about investigations by general officers. They do what they’re told or they’re fired, we all know that. The point here, as kindness and others have said, is that we need an impartial investigation and the torture, rendered or unrendered, must stop — we don’t like it, it’s immoral and impractical, and it’s killing us in world opinion where we claim to be setting the standards. Well, we are setting standards, but not the ones we want or deserve.
Here’re the details:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGPOL100142005
25 May 2005
Amnesty International Report 2005
Speech by Irene Khan (extracts)
at Foreign Press Association
Many millions feel betrayed and let down by the failure of governments and the international community to uphold human rights.
…the US government and its allies who lead the “War on Terror” continue to persist with politically convenient but ineffective strategies, which undermine human rights.
Furthermore, the US, as the unrivalled political, military and economic Super Power, sets the tone of governmental behaviour world-wide. By thumbing its nose at the rule of law and human rights, what message does the US send to repressive regimes who have little regard for the rule of law anyway?
By lowering the human rights standards, the US has weakened its own moral authority to speak out on human rights.
By actively supporting repressive regimes as allies in the War on Terror, US, the EU and others actually promote greater insecurity. Uzbekistan is a case point. Belated calls for transparency and accountability cannot hide their earlier support and silence on human rights abuse by Karimov’s government.
But nothing shows the disregard of international law as clearly as the attempts by the US, UK and some European
countries to set aside the absolute prohibition of torture and ill treatment by re-definition and “rendering”
– or the transfer prisoners to regimes that are known to use torture. In effect sub-contracting torture, yet keeping their own hands and conscience clean.
Under this dangerous agenda, justice is not only denied, it is also distorted.
In the US, almost a year after the Supreme Court decided that detainees in Guantanamo should have access to judicial review, not one single case from among the 500 or so detained has reached the courts because of stonewalling by the Administration.
Under this agenda some people are above the law and others are clearly outside it.
**********************************************
Guantanamo has become the gulag our times, entrenching the notion that people can be detained without any recourse to the law.
**********************************************
If Guantanamo evokes images of Soviet repression, “ghost detainees” — or the incommunicado detention of unregistered detainees – bring back the practice of “disappearances” so popular with Latin American dictators in the past. According to US official sources there could be over 100 ghost detainees held by the US.
In 2004 thousands of people were held by the US in Iraq, hundreds in Afghanistan and undisclosed numbers in undisclosed locations.
AI is calling on the US Administration to “close Guantanamo and disclose the rest”. What we mean by this is: either release the prisoners or charge and prosecute them with due process.
*****************************************
–”The stories they told were remarkably similar terrible beatings, hung from wrists and beaten, removal of clothes, hooding, exposure naked to extreme cold, –They all confirmed that all this treatment was by Americans
… … Several mentioned the use of electric shocks — some had this done; many saw it done.
Notes of a US lawyer after meeting Kuwaiti detainees in Guantánamo Bay in January 2005
The abuses photographed in Abu Ghraib were universally condemned, but these have not been the last incidents of
torture and ill-treatment by US officials. Reports of abuses continue to emerge from Afghanistan, Guantánamo
Bay, Iraq and elsewhere.
The US government has conducted reviews and investigations but they have not had the independence or reach necessary. A full, transparent and independent investigation of crimes must take place to ensure accountability for the human rights violations that are alleged to have occurred in US custody, including arbitrary detentions, “disappearances”, torture and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment.
Prosecutions must follow such an investigation, to prevent further torture and ill-treatment. Detainees have been subjected to conditions of prolonged isolation, sleep and sensory deprivation, sexual and other humiliation, mock executions and other threats. To stop these practices, in the name of the “war on terror”, call on President Bush to act now.
Take action! email your message to: comments@whitehouse.gov
Write to President Bush urging him to support the establishment of an independent commission of inquiry to
July 29th, 2005 at 2:25 pminvestigate the detention and interrogation policies and practices in the “war on terror” and the appointment
of a special counsel to prosecute any officials involved in torture and ill-treatment.
JFG-
you missed my point on talk radio. Rush is not an “aquired taste”. With Talk radio you either agree or you don’t. to claim it has some valid political pourpose is ridiculous.
July 29th, 2005 at 5:16 pmSorry, it was FBA and JFG to whom I was responding — I didn’t mean to slight the ol’ faker.
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