Leaking Scandal Encircles More Administration Officials Than Previously Believed
Leaking Scandal Encircles More Administration Officials Than Previously Believed
Today, Time magazine reports that White House official Karl Rove and others may have learned “about Plame from within the Administration rather than from media contacts.”
Recall that for weeks, Rove, Libby, and company have been hiding behind reporters. It has been suggested to the special prosecutor that Rove first learned the identity of Plame from journalists.
A source says presidential confidant Karl Rove testified to a grand jury that he learned the identity of a C-I-A operative originally from a journalist. He then informally discussed the information with a Time magazine reporter days before the story broke.
And remember Rove’s own attorney said:
“[Rove has] told [investigators] that he believes he may have heard it from a journalist.” Asked who it was, the lawyer said, “I don’t think he’s able to identify that, or to identify precisely when he may have heard it.”
These assertions have forced the special prosecutor to threaten reporters with jail time if they did not come clean (NYT reporter Judith Miller, of course, currently sits in jail because, as her lawyer stated, “most likely somebody testified to the grand jury that he or she had spoken to Judy.”).
Now we’re learning that Rove, Libby, and others learned of Plame’s identity well before journalists knew who she was. The newest information asserts that White House officials learned of Plame after Walter Pincus of the Washington Post wrote an article on June 12, 2003 detailing evidence that existed prior to the State of the Union which should have prevented the President from suggesting Iraq was acquiring uranium from Africa. This information corroborates Robert Novak’s claim in his infamous July 14, 2003 column that outed Plame which said the White House sprung into action after “Walter Pincus revealed in the Washington Post June 12 that an unnamed retired diplomat had given the CIA a negative report.”
A former intelligence officer tells Time that after the damaging Pincus article was written:
“[T]here was general discussion with the National Security Council and the White House and State Department and others” about Wilson’s trip and its origins.
If these revelations are true, the least of Rove and Libby’s concerns is perjury. Today’s disclosure adds further evidence that the White Hose consciously dug out Plame’s identity, used it, and then engaged in a massive cover-up by pinning blame elsewhere. Moreover, it appears far more players were involved in this orchestrated, administration-wide effort than previously believed. The key question, if these revelations are true, is why did these administration officials lie so overtly to the special prosecutor? Knowing hard evidence would come out sooner or later against them (through leaks, emails, etc), the White House officials still chose to lie. What could they possibly be trying to hide? Perhaps this wasn’t just a “third-rate smear.”
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Hopefully, Fitzgerald has all his ducks lined up so he can nail these liars with some big-time indictments!!!
July 31st, 2005 at 2:03 pmLook, I’m all for aggressively pursuing the bad deeds of Rove et al. But this is rather misleading. Time is not reporting, as your first paragraph says, that Rove and others learned about Plame from within the administration rather than from the media. Time reports that the new information they have uncovered ” increases the chances that White House official Karl Rove and others learned about Plame from within the Administration rather than from media contacts.” That is rather different. We still don’t know definitively enough that Rove’s claim about learning directly or indirectly from the media is false. So there’s no point in pretending that we do yet. How likely is Rove’s story? Not very. But for that very reason, it’s better not to assert we know more than we do.
July 31st, 2005 at 2:37 pmThis means that higher-ups are implicated. Cheney must go down before Bush is impeached. I think there is something in Frist’s parting with the administration on the Stem cell issue, and the continuing moderation on the extreme right. The fear that a Democrat, any Democrat, could take the White House in 2008, after losing House and Senate seats to Democrats in both 2006 and 2008. The fear is that hundreds of Republicans could do prison time if a shift like that came about. That’s Shock and Awe. It’s a real possibility, and they know it.
July 31st, 2005 at 2:42 pmJeff,
The fish rots from the head down. This is the court of public opinion, not a court of law. Go to any right wing site and you will find people still blaming Valerie and Joe Wilson. You will also find “proof” that Saddam had WMDs and “strong ties” to al Qaeda. If you are an attorney, drop them a line. They are each going to need “dream teams” soon enough.
July 31st, 2005 at 2:48 pmJeff, point well-taken. I’ve corrected the language to include “may have learned.” Although, they do have an on-the-record quote from a former intel officer to back their point.
July 31st, 2005 at 2:51 pmIf this is true, and they know they are in real trouble, look for a MAJOR misdirection from this administration. These guys would do anything to maintain power.
July 31st, 2005 at 2:55 pm[…] Hat tip to Think Progress for pointing us to this. […]
July 31st, 2005 at 3:04 pmI just want to know why the main stream media has not covered this story for the past couple of weeks?? I believe there is a cover-up between the media and the Republicans. This story is too good to be all over the media for two weeks, and then mysteriously dropped just as fast. Something ain’t right here.h
July 31st, 2005 at 3:05 pmThe MSM is detail driven, not investigation. It will get a passing mention on CNN news update.
July 31st, 2005 at 3:08 pmI hope Fitzgerald remembers.
HAYNES JOHNSON, Journalist/Author: I think it was the most important moment in national history for the political system in this century, Jim. And if you think back 25 years ago when it began Watergateand two short years later, that tumultuous two years when Richard Nixon was forced to resign on the threat of impeachment, and he did so, that night–I will never forget as long as I live–you had a sense that every part of the system worked. The press did its job. It didn’t solve the case or anything like that. The judges did their jobs. The grand jury did its jobs. The committee, Congress headed by people like Howard Baker and Sam Ervin did their jobs, and the public did its job, and the House Impeachment Committee did–with nobility and seriousness of purpose and the contrast today, 25 years later, when people have so much doubt and despair and cynicism about the way it works, we all remember that it did work in every element. That doesn’t mean we don’t have problems now, but that’s what I think was important.
July 31st, 2005 at 3:10 pmMiller’s takin’ one for the team. I hope she rots in jail.
July 31st, 2005 at 3:10 pmWhy would Rove and Libby lie so overtly? The lies are a deliberate attempt to shield Bush and Cheney from the fall-out.
July 31st, 2005 at 3:12 pmin the scheme of everything Karl does in a day/week/month/year, my guess is that it’s possible that he really doesn’t remember who told him what and when. I’ve learned a lot of things in my life over the years, yet would be hard pressed to tell you when I learned some of them , or how or who taught them to me.
Don’t get me wrong, I think he’s guilty, and I think he did all this knowing what his words and deeds would acomplish. i can’t wait to see the results of the inquest, and then I think we’re back to Watergate.. What did the president know.. and when did he know it. Of course, Bush is no Nixon, so the answer to that question is he really DOESN’T know anything.
It’s just that you’d have to admit that it’s at lease POSSIBLE that Rove doesn’t really remember.
July 31st, 2005 at 3:15 pmThere’s no impeach power, Janitor!
We have to email the GOP who support the coverup. I’m starting a new round.
Rep. King, Peter (R-NY-3rd)
July 31st, 2005 at 3:16 pmSen. Hutchison, Kay Bailey (R-TX)
Sen. Cornyn, John (R-TX)
Sen. Coleman, Norm (R-MN
Rep. Blunt, Roy (R-MO-7th
Sen. Graham, Lindsey (R-SC)
Sen. McCain, John (R-AZ)
Pat Roberts, KS
The cover-up has already begun . .
WASHINGTON - The special prosecutor in the CIA leak investigation has shifted his focus from whether White
House officials violated a law against exposing undercover agents to determining whether evidence exists to bring perjury or obstruction of justice charges, according to people briefed in recent days on the inquiry’s status.
. . . and then they’ll run into all the vague statements: “may have learned . . . ” “May have heard it . . . ” and there’ll be no basis for perjury.
July 31st, 2005 at 3:20 pmWhen you are taking revenge, you remember every little miniscule detail, revel in it, roll in it and call it up again and again. He remembers. He’s that kind.
July 31st, 2005 at 3:21 pmTotally agree Jesus. Rove by all reports has a brilliant mind. This is not the type of thing you forget. You either learned it from a journalist or learned it from an admin official. Which is it? They’re playing smoke and mirrors
July 31st, 2005 at 3:23 pm[…] (via ThinkProgress.org) […]
July 31st, 2005 at 3:27 pmI think Don #15 is more correct than I would like to believe. The MSM is already stifling their yawns on the story. The guns are drawn against Fitzgerald — and I don’t have confidence that he will be able to stand up to the pressure. The White House spin doctors, their messengers, their apologists on Fox, the defense contractors, the entire army of those who stand to lose a lot if this al goes down against the Bushies, will be united in forcing this topic off the front pages and focusing on the sideshows they set in motion.
July 31st, 2005 at 3:31 pmFitzgerald better watch his back. The grand jury better ask for protection. There is no level so low that the gang of low lifes in the White House will not stoop.
I’m concerned about Fitz waning, also. But the media likes a good story at the very least. And fitz will have to produce a report when he is finished, regardless of indictments. That will be scrutinized by media.
July 31st, 2005 at 3:44 pmI feel a sense of wait and see in the air. In the meantime, Frist and Santorum are helping GOP atleast look at the loyalty line in the sand.
Keep your chin up, Marie. Email senators in allstates.
Brian,
July 31st, 2005 at 3:52 pmYou’re right, we need to be relentless with the pressure. My local editors already know me by my Emails. The talking heads on MSNBC, CNN, et. al hear from me regularly.
The next 2 months will be tough to wait and see - but we really don’t have another choice — unless someone exposes everything before he falls on his sword.
txDem: Why would Rove and Libby lie so overtly?
My guess is that they never expected that the reporters would be called to testify, or that if called they would refuse to reveal their sources. Ironically, Bush actually said as much back when the probe first started back in 2003. Bush stated that he didn’t think the leakers would be caught because reporters were too good at protecting their sources (boy, that really made me wonder if the prez wasn’t in fact involved, though probably after the fact).
They probably also never figured that Special Prosecutor Fitzgerald was going to turn out to be so hardnosed and relentless (the Terminator, anyone?), and that he would go so far as to put reporters in jail.
Finally in Rove’s rush to discredit Wilson, he may really not have understood the full significance of what he’d done. Rove only thinks in political terms, what advances the GOP and the Bush administration agenda (which is why most presidents wouldn’t even think of bringing this kind of character into the White House: the Rove types usually only get called in for the election cycle).
Rove in using his typical smear tactics that have worked so well for him for years, he may have forgotten that he was playing in a different ball park. As some ex-CIA have stated, never has a CIA operative been outed by it’s own government for political purposes in it’s entire history. In the eyes of many at the CIA, Plame’s outing has been a fundamental betrayal or their own goverment against them. Besides the potential national security damage, this has to be incredibly chilling to those that work at the agency, to know that any of them can become victims because for doing their jobs honestly.
July 31st, 2005 at 3:53 pm#3 Good observation on Frist, I agree, and will keep looking for the fractures to appear.
July 31st, 2005 at 3:55 pmThe Watergate Defense: “…to the best of my recollection, Senator…”
“Major mis-direction”…yes, expect that ALWAYS.
“Politics is the art of diverting attention away
July 31st, 2005 at 3:57 pmfrom REAL power”
The current BushCo is just the puppets for the real Modern day Nazi party in America.
Why do you think Bush had a communications device under his suit for the 9/11 commission “chat� (not under any oath) and during the debates?
His masters were in the background making hard work for the chimp.
Comment by EasyRider  July 31, 2005 @ 1:36 am
Speaking of 9/11 Bush’s story is that a camera crew of middle-easterners showed up on the morning of 9/11 and asked for an unscheduled interview before Bush left for the school photo op.
Why have we not seen any video of that crew if they really existed? Would not the Secret Service have survelliance of all locations where the President of the United States stays overnight? Would they not record all who attempt to see the President?
Another lie to enhance President Bush’s imagine of why he ran until Cheney had control everything?
It is funny that they infer that it was an attempted assination, like that in Aftganisan two days before, and they have never been able to find anyone. For that matter not finding the 9/11 terrorist supporters yet. But the British can get the 2nd terrorist cell within a couple of weeks.
Are other DOJ, FBI, and CIA personnel that imcompetent or has the Bush adminstration doctored the evidence so much that the real events and screwups with not be made public.
I remember a CBS reporter stay next to a landstrip as a plane take off on Sept 12 or 13. THe FBI spokeman said they were collecting or move stranded citizens around. I think they even showed a radar screen. That was the bin Ladens being collected and sent home by Bush. This before U.S. Citizens were again allowed to fly.
Yet in the 9/11 report they could not find evidence that this happen. An FBI agent said it never happened. But it was on TV news why was this lied about and the evidence destroyed? If it was not destroyed why didn’t the 9/11 commission find it?
Bush and the adminstration has a lot to hide. They have a lot that they have lied about. The Republican Congress is in it with them and there will never be charges brought against Bush. There will not be an investigation into the lies Bush has created and used against America.
Comment by EasyRider  July 31, 2005 @ 1:58 am
Lie Big, Lie Often, and Lie the worst you can about your target. Repeat cycle until public is brain dead and believe that some of that your lie about is true.
July 31st, 2005 at 4:05 pmFrom the Nazis of handbook.
I think there is a whole culture of current and ex-CIA who have this administration in their sights. Publicly, it started with Michael Scheuer and his book condemning Bushco.
July 31st, 2005 at 4:20 pmThese people have to see Goss as a stooge. His company line was “Bush way or the highway”.
Why is “Jeff” here bending over backward in Rove’s behalf? Of course Rove knows where he heard that from. This was clearly a campaign against Wilson headed by Rove-Cheney.
http://www.isbushwired.com presents what’s known about Gannon’s usefulness to Rove in the Plame affair. I hope the prosecutor is looking into that particular weak link of the daisy chain.
July 31st, 2005 at 4:20 pmThe 2003 piece by Walter Pincus and the latest Time coverage of the CIA Outing scandal (”When They Knew”) are now available in the Rove Scandal Documents Center.
July 31st, 2005 at 4:26 pmI like to believe Colin Powell is helping to bring these thugs to justice, too. After all, he had the memo on Air Force One.
July 31st, 2005 at 4:39 pmI fully expect for Fitzgerald’s appointment NOT to be renewed when it expires. Who knows, then, what will happen.
via
July 31st, 2005 at 5:13 pmhttp://www.CafePress.com/liberalprogdem
http://www.ChurchoftheFrontPorch.com
I like to believe Colin Powell is helping to bring these thugs to justice, too. After all, he had the memo on Air Force One.
Comment by pol  July 31, 2005 @ 4:39 pm
Fat Chance. Remember My Lai? How about Iran-Contra?
He’s had chances to do the right and honorable thing before, and chose not to; same thing here.
He still goes to bed at night with dreams of “President Powell” dancing through his head. No way that happens if he quits being a team player.
July 31st, 2005 at 5:13 pmThis has been asked before in other blogs but not answered yet. So far as we know, Valerie Wilson’s cover name “Plame” was not in the INR memo. Who or what was source of the name “Plame” and how did her cover name get circulated and land in Novak’s column?
July 31st, 2005 at 5:30 pmThere is one simple explanation for all of this: The anger of the CIA, the actions of Fitzgerald and the judges and the grand jury. By outing Plame, they outed the company she worked at, and all the agents there. You can bet your bottom dollar there are a number of US intelligence assets at the bottom of the sea, or buried in mines. The lucky ones are simply rotting in jail.
Since we know when this happened, it should be relatively simple for anyone really interested to track back and find some of the disappeared, say in Iran, Pakistan, etc.
Anyone really interested in blowing the top off this could. The CIA will not and can not for fear of exposing more agents, but they can efficiently pass the word.
July 31st, 2005 at 5:39 pmVictoria Love,
July 31st, 2005 at 5:41 pmI fully expect Fitzgerald to be out in October. That is if he makes it until then. If they wait until his report and IF his report is very damning to them, then outsing him will be rather un-PC. If they fire him before then, they will have to do some tap-dancing, but that’s not unfamiliar to them.
He’d better watch his back.
When Fitzgerald issues his report and the indictments are handed out in October, I predict the source of the undercover CIA agent’s identity will involve the EOB, including Dick Cheney.
This is the stuff that can bring down a government.
Worse than Watergate.
. . .
July 31st, 2005 at 6:16 pmWe now know that every member of this adminstration has lied for years now. Now that we have the investigation into the Plame leak and have all of these lies relating to this outing of Plame being exposed maybe we need to take a step back and look at the history of this adminstration use of lies.
I mean that this addministration has used lies to create an imagine of Bush that is totally based on lies. Including 9/11 stories.
Read this story again in light of the known lies that the adminstration has put out about the Plame outing. This story is well documented and reference to real journalist stories from the MSM. Now maybe some of the stories may not be true. But what is most important is the pattern of lies that Bush’s administration put out for months about the events on and around 9/11.
The administration has twisted and distorted almost every fact about 9/11 and Bush’s activities and responses. Only when video shows up that demonstrates that what the adminstration was not true do they sometimes change their stories. But not always.
Check this out and then go over the Plame outing stories again.
http://www.911dossier.co.uk/gen15.html
What did Bush and Cheney chat about with the 9/11 Commission? Did they tell the truth? If not why have we not indicted them for the trreason they have committed.
We should also start calling anybody who supports the lies that this administration puts out for what they are co-conspiritors in acts of treason. Let us light them up with the spot light truth.
FBI, IRS, CIA and any other government agencies should be saving America from all of these Criminal activities.
America was attacked on 9/11. 9/11 was but a battle of a war that has been forced upon us. But the enemies are those who have used every lie possible to gain control of the American polictal system for their own corrupt political purposes. Whose stated purpose is the total destruction of the America government and American institutions.
http://www.originaldissent.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15483
We are at war, and we are the victims. Indictments and convictions are the tools that must be used to remove the corrupt GOP from all facets of our government and society.
Not all Republicans are our enemies. They too are our brothers and sister Americans. They are sicken by what these thugs have done to America. We need them to join us in this fight.
Hope you read and reflect on the articles I have linked to. One of which is on a Conservative website and will undoubtily disappear soon.
Capture all interesting sites, they may become evidences in the coming months.
July 31st, 2005 at 6:32 pmUnical–China–Afhganistan–Bush
Bush letting Unical to be sold to China? Unical advisors and consultans now in charge of the Afhganistan government! Unical building a pipeline across Afhganistan.
Very interesting! Was Michael Moore right after all?
July 31st, 2005 at 6:38 pm“Why did these key administration officials lie so overty..?”
Because pride goeth before the fall.
These arrogant pricks never thought anybody had oversight over them anymore. After 9/11, this administration seized power like Hitler after the Reichstag fire and the Enabling Act. Its quite possible that their own hubris caused them to be blind to the possibility that the CIA could also force an investigation.
July 31st, 2005 at 6:43 pmI still wonder why Ashcroft let go of this. There was no pressure for it except in these far reaches. The political damage of bulldozing the whole thing was nil.
If there was some kind of huge smoking gun someone was threatening Ashcroft with then you would think we would know it by now. Ashcroft the fruitcake never had a thought in his head as AG that wasn’t 1000% attuned to political/policy goals of the WH. It’s almost impossible to belive he made this blunder.
Let’s remember that within the WH and within The Party the prevailing view of Watergate is that Nixon allowed it to happen, the scandal that is, by being weak and not shutting all the doors.
It seems impossible that Ashcroft let this thing loose except under MASSIVE pressure.
Ashcroft did then leave of course. He has been invisible since too.
July 31st, 2005 at 7:47 pmI think that they lied thinking that Bush would block any reviews and things would go on as per usual for this administration - I honestly don’t think that they thought anyone would actually look into it. They are that arrogant - and to be honest - how long have progressive viewed people or honest conservatives (rare nowadays but nevertheless) been saying Plame, Gannon, Rove and pretty much hit brick walls - or considered partisan freaks? - its slowly - I still hold hope that this corruptness will be put to an end -to be honest - we aren’t hearing any of this information in the MSM here in Australia - only by searching for the info on the “internets” am I keeping up with it all. They even had one channel trying to make us all feel indignant about Judith Miller - Yeah I was spitting at the TV.
July 31st, 2005 at 7:49 pmI believe it is possible that he White House did not think Joe Wilson would go public….and the CIA evidently doesn’t care….because he never signed a confidentiality agreement? No, because the CIA got wind the White House was coming after one of thier own. Mr. Rove already had his plan in motion including having Miller spreading at least part of the story (the wrong part about Val sending Joe)…others were beginning to sniff around…..somebody pulled the trigger anyway with Novak…the CIA, in my mind caught Mr. Rove in his own game….the silence coming from Crawford speaks volumes…..they are only buying time.
Peace
July 31st, 2005 at 7:58 pmWhat is the deal with Bob Woodward? On Chris Matthews today, he was still defending Rove and company. He called Joe Wilson a liar and tried to say that he deserved what happened to him. What a disgrace he has become. He has been saying for the past month that this case wasn’t a story because Valerie Plame wasn’t covert even though his own paper reports that indeed she was. Thankfully, the Washington Post is not listening to Woodward, and are continuing to do a good job on this story.
July 31st, 2005 at 8:15 pmDon’t forget Michael Scheuer.
July 31st, 2005 at 8:19 pmWoodward is a one trick pony who had his success handed to him.
July 31st, 2005 at 8:20 pmBob Woodward is a real question. He wrote “Bush At War” which is about Bush and the first 100 days after 9/11.
Maybe Bush put on such a good show that Bob does not want to admit that he was taken for a ride by this administration.
Bush and Rove really did do a job on Bob. And he just does not want to face it.
July 31st, 2005 at 8:27 pmBy all means, every criminal and traitor should be jailed. Let’s start with Democrat Sandy Berger, who stole top secret government documents, hiding them in his socks and elsewhere, so he could destroy those with incriminating handwritten notes on them to protect the truth about the Clinton administration’s failings from being revealed during the 9/11 hearings. Or, how about Democrat Hillary Clinton, who feloneously unleashed the Internal Revenue Service and hired thugs against every woman her husband used, abused, molested, or raped; or her obviously purgered testimony that she ‘didn’t know’ how subpoened documents were hidden outside her bedroom, probably under the same shit stained thongs she dives under whenever anyone dares raise a serious question. There’s at least a dozen other serious felonies the Cellulite Queen has committed (e.g., bribery re the $100,000 commodity profit). As to felonies by others, we have Democrat Dick Head Durbin and other Democrat Senators spilling top secret info on the senate floor. Then there’s the treasonous Democratic Rep. Dick McDermott, who slandered his country overseas and published secretly recorded, private phone conversations between Republican leaders, hoping to smear them. Then there’s the Dems. theft of the Governor’s election in Washington State, using the ‘lets keep counting votes and changing the rules and finding new votes until the Democrat wins and then stop counting’ scam that they’d tried and failed to do in collaboration with the corrupt Democrat Supreme Court hacks in Florida. To simply catalogue an abbreviated summary of the lies and felonies committed by Clinton and his Democratic gang of thugs and liars in Congress, not to mention the vicious personal attacks they predictably launch at anyone who dares disagree with their diversity uber alles ideology would consume countless pages and time. Clearly, the shrill ravings on this site against Reps. are laughable given your Silence of the ‘Tards’ re Dems crimes and lies.
July 31st, 2005 at 9:11 pmBob Woodward is more intimate with the members of this administration than most of the Republicans in Congress, he is powerful and doesn’t take a piss without the inner Bush circle knowing about it. I’m more disgusted by Chris Matthews who served time in the Peace Core and was a speechwriter for Jimmy Carter.
Rare is the man who holds his principles in higher regard than the allure of wealth and power.
July 31st, 2005 at 9:23 pmHow many of you have let this sink in? These people are really, and actually, running the country. What the hell is going to happen if they aren’t stopped?
July 31st, 2005 at 9:24 pmYou are kidding Pablum. All jaywalking in comparison to the calculated corporate nazi war machine and their murderous ways.
July 31st, 2005 at 9:26 pmpablo,
Clinton’s been gone for 5 years now, the failures of the Republicans cannot be attributed to the Clinton’s or the party that HAS NO POWER. This mess…..has a capital R pasted to it. Keep right on with your party of personal responsibility though. You flippin hypocrite.
July 31st, 2005 at 9:26 pmSteve, I hate to back away from a good scrap….but we’re pretty fvcked at this point. The Dems in Congress are just accomplice to the crimes of the R’s.
July 31st, 2005 at 9:29 pmyou got one of those f**kin’ “VIVA BUSH!” stickers in the rear window of your 4WD Dodge there, Pablo?
July 31st, 2005 at 10:00 pmPablo and his ilk are trolls and want to get us fight with them. If we are fighting with them we are not discussing the issues and the evidence against his bosses.
Some have had their brains so screw up that they can very be part of the reality world again. It is best to figure out how best to jail each and everyone. Leave no criminal behind.
July 31st, 2005 at 10:09 pmQuick reminder: The Karl Rove Whack-a-Mole Contest ends on Thursday, August 3rd.
While the grand jury may not issue any indictments for months, you can be Karl Rove’s judge and jury today. Just sentence Rove for his outrageous crimes and you could win an Apple iPod Shuffle or other great prizes.
This is one time when justice delayed doesn’t have to be justice denied.
Enter today!
July 31st, 2005 at 10:24 pmPablo,
July 31st, 2005 at 10:27 pmbaby, sweetie, Punctuation babes, Punctuation! If you expect anybody to wade through all that verbiage you should break it up into sentences. Sentences are great! They help you make sense. Sentences are your friend.
It also helps if you know what you’re talking about and can write intelligently on the subject, but let’s not get ahead of ourselves.
Now you write that comment over and post it again. We’ll be waiting. We’re here to help.
Hey EasyRider. In addition to attrocious grammer, you don’t discuss ideas. Rather, you shriek about treason, lying, criminals, arrogance, Halliburton, etc. without getting into any reasoned debate about issues. Name calling and mindless sloganeering isn’t debate. It’s no mystery why the Democrats are the party of the parasitic, the criminal, the public employee, the black, the man-hating lesbian, the self-hating jew, the marxist retread, the diversity nazi, the affirmative action retard, and other crap canners that drain our society of resources. It’s not the rich who are paying too little taxes. It’s the so called poor who pay too little. The bottom 50% of American wage earners pay far less than 4% of federal income taxes, yet they demand 50% of the rewards from living in a first world country rather than squatting on some dung heap in a third world shithole.
July 31st, 2005 at 10:29 pmPablo,
Here is an article written by a GOP funder named Howard Ahmanson.
*”Three New Testament Roots of Economic Liberty” by
Howard Ahmanson*, is on his own site so no one has screwed with it. He has serveral articles posted that he has written. His URL for this arcticle is http://www.acton.org/ publicat/ randl/ article.php?id=219.
This guy funds GOP institutions and funds all kinds of GOP extreme organizations and groups.
Why this is important is that his idea is that only the rich have rights. He is a billionaire so I am sure his idea of rich is really different from yours. But he states that only the rich have rights. The poor (us that are not rich by his standard measurement) are without rights; we are not entitled to rights; we here only to serve the rich; that he want to destroy the America government; that he wants to replace our laws with bible laws, including all the old testiment punishments like stoning;
Some the GOP/conservative training organizations/institutions require the reading of “Mien Kamf” and “The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich.” These are reference in their training materials.
You know that the people in Germany though that Hilter and the Nazis would be good for Germany. The Nazis would only correct the problems of the Jews. That the Nazis were going to better their individual lives. Well, the Nazis had bigger plans and they did not stop with the Jewish problem as they defined it. They killed millions. The key to the Nazis success was that everyone thought the Nazis would not come for them. That they would not become the target of the Nazis hatard. But they were wrong, the Nazis just selected their target groups one by one. If you read the article referenced in earlier post (36.) http://www.originaldissent.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15483 you will see that is the stated tactic that these right-wing extremists are imploying. After us, they will come for you as well. It is only a question of when.
You see to the Grand Masters of this movement nobody but the elitists counts. The elitists are in the CNP and the right-wing conservative institutes that they have been funding for the last thirty or forty years.
These guys are playing keeps and you guys think they are on your side. I am sure later you will enjoy them as much as we do. “Where have all the flowers gone?”
July 31st, 2005 at 10:41 pmK Rove is damaged but that’s all you get. Honestly,
you just can’t care so much about nothing. Valerie Wilson gets outted. So what! She was never going under cover again anyway. I’ve yet to figure out how her out ing hurts Joe Wilson. You know he wrote an op ed piece for the LA Times shortly after he came back from Niger and never mentioned his concerns about manufactured intelligence. Truth is, Valerie wasn’t too careful about not letting people know she was a desk jockey at the CIA. And Joe overplayed his hand , thus damaged his own credibility.
I’ll tell you what, if Joe W. is so damaged, let him soo K. Rove for slander. It’ll neveer happen because he’d have to allow himself to be deposed.
G
July 31st, 2005 at 10:50 pmPablum,
July 31st, 2005 at 10:57 pmSounds a whole lot like fake or else he has logged on to the same propagandized brain they all share. It is no wonder the Repugnants are the party of facist wasps, bibble thumpin’ snake handlin’ prostitute humpin’ religeuos types, oily crimminals, murderers, warmongers, Stepford Wives,Archie Bunker types and selfish beedy eyed mongoloids. Keep giving yourselves tax cuts, sweetheart deals, pump up stock values, no bid contracts at 3x the what they are worth, cheat the tax payers,pollute, dole out corporate welfare, clear cut, rob and pillage AND THEN TELL YOURSELVES YOU ARE THE WINNERS ON A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD and we should all share the financial burdens of society. Keep fooling yourselves pablow.Get back to your dung heap turd.
EasyRider. The republican guy you referenced is obviously deranged. By the way, I’m an independent, a member of no party, who would probably be democrat along with millions of others if it wasn’t for their long-standing pro-criminal, pro-affirmative action, pro stalinist speach code, and soft on muslims creed. By the way, are you aware that Mein Kampf is a best selling books throughout the muslim world? So is the racist fraud, ‘Protocols of the Elders of Zion’? It is the muslims who shriek about their intent to butcher all jews, christians, and other ‘infidels’. This makes them less than human in any sense of that term. They are our enemies, not george bush. Just like the leftist idiots during the 1930’s, the mincing peace crowd tut tuts about how we shouldn’t believe everything the muslim (nazis) shriek. Sure, they state they’re going to kill us all; but, hey, terrorists have right, too, you know. No, terrorists don’t have any rights beyond the right to take a 50 caliber in the skull. At some point we will have to exterminate much of the arab/muslim world. Not because we want to. But unless they stop their jihad garbage, they will die. We have the power to exterminate them and we will do it if they don’t stop. And that’s the truth, like it or not.
July 31st, 2005 at 11:06 pmHere we go again with the diversion tactics, false party declarations, back handed insults, transparent allegiances, and preposterous statement baiting. Get back to yankin’it pablow.,it’s a better use of your time.
July 31st, 2005 at 11:16 pmBy the way, I’m an independent, a member of no party, who would probably be democrat along with millions of others if it wasn’t for their long-standing pro-criminal, pro-affirmative action, pro stalinist speach code,
This is classic.
July 31st, 2005 at 11:19 pmGo here.
http://www.idsonline.org/
July 31st, 2005 at 11:22 pmG.W. with Jugs. Unlike you, I’m telling the truth about what I think and my political allegiances. I don’t vote. I’m not a joiner. But I do have positions on each issue. Rather than mindlessly follow a party of ideological line, I actually think. Maybe that’s why I’m a PhD and you’re a knee padder for the democrats. Stand up, girl, and stop being a house negro for any party, let alone the democrats who haven’t done shit for you and your people. Think about it. While blacks have gotten the shaft, ‘negro’ house boys like Jessie ‘Kingfish’ Jackson and his ilk have gotten rich beyond avarice, extorting beer distributorships and the like for his sons, not for the sons of the projects, who need help.
July 31st, 2005 at 11:24 pmI am a former skinhead who sees the error of my ways . A former Republican and conservative. I have talked to Jesus and he has set me straight. I read the Bible every day and attend church at least 3 times per week.
July 31st, 2005 at 11:26 pmJesus told me you are wrong pablow and that I should aim to exterminate you and your kind.
Pablo,
I too have read the books in the 1970s. As to the enemy, it is your GOP brownshirts that have identified all non supporters of BushCo as the enemy. You see we believe that a “Declaration of War” should have been made. That the muslim world should have been put on notice that had x number of days to hand over all terrorists and their supporters. Failing to hand over the terrorists America would have destroyed the countries that supported them. I happen to like the idea of turning the middle-east into a glass parking lot. I do not believe we should be nice to the enemy. I believe that the execution of the terrorists is required. I believe that Bush had plans to attack Iraq and there fore did not put enough troops into Afhganstan to capture or kill Bin Laden. We are very angry that Bush did not have the baskbone to kill Bin Laden.
Now if you think that BushCo is justified in committing treason for politcal gains is right then you are support the destruction of the United States of America. When I was in the Air FOrce we took an oath to defend the U.S. Constitution and its government from all enemies outside and within. Bush has committed treason. That is clear. You trying to paint the treason against American National Security is just politics is just as bad as Bush’s treason. You support it.
Now if you could evencome out and say that if Bush and the people in his administration have committed crimes they should be prosecuted, well then we may see you as a real American. But to blindly support and find no fault on anything Bush has done is, well, sick.
July 31st, 2005 at 11:27 pmYou people are too stupid to converse with. Bye.
July 31st, 2005 at 11:28 pmWoodward is a spook. Look into Woodward’s past. His father was a spook, a big name in the OSS, forerunner to CIA. Woodward was deep throat. Felt can’t remember his own name. They said he was Deep Throat, and he said, “I was?” “I was!” Half the reporters in the “free press” are spooks. Even though it violates the law, but when has that ever stopped them.
July 31st, 2005 at 11:31 pmVIVA BUSH!
July 31st, 2005 at 11:31 pmPabs,
July 31st, 2005 at 11:33 pm“sputtering, incoherent prose?’
You’re complaining about someone else’s “sputtering, incoherent prose?”
This might be harder than I thought.
good riddance to pablo. He can’t even spell the word ‘grammar.’
July 31st, 2005 at 11:35 pmYou guys come here and assume everyone is Democrat. Wrong I am independent, you are Nazi,many people here are independent. I take no credit for the Dems actions, so as soon as you type a few sentences I know who you are. Troll, Nazi.
July 31st, 2005 at 11:36 pmA BOB JONES UNIVERSITY doctorate is not worth the toilet paper it is written on and truely educated people do not call up their education. Imposter,clown retard, mongoloid mess.
BY the way G.W. with jugs refers to Barbara Bush moron.
This might be harder than I thought.
July 31st, 2005 at 11:36 pmI have to admit I do screw up the spelling and the grammar a lot. I should write posts in MS word and use the spellchecker, but what the hell.
July 31st, 2005 at 11:37 pmAll of Pablo’s rant in #46… total misinformation. None of it true.
July 31st, 2005 at 11:38 pmIt’s because of spellchecker people don’t know how to spell. OR use proper subject/verb agreement. It’s like a bunch of play by play commentary in here (hear?).
July 31st, 2005 at 11:42 pmGet out your dikshunarees you stoners.
Name calling and mindless sloganeering isn’t debate.
July 31st, 2005 at 11:46 pmName calling and mindless sloganeering isn’t debate.
That may be true, but it sure worked well for Republicans. That says something about the state of the Union. I think it’s highly unlikely this experiment in democracy will last to the 300 year mark. Peak oil, global warming, crushing debt, no tax revenue, mass hysteria and insanity on a national scalem cultic religious movements, the party is over. I’m just glad I’ll be dead before it happens. It’s tough for our kids though. Don’t blame me. I voted for the other guy.
July 31st, 2005 at 11:58 pmscooter and bolton, in the laundry room, with a candlestick.
what do I win?
July 31st, 2005 at 11:59 pmJeff and turd blossom ,in the kitchen… with a salami.
August 1st, 2005 at 12:09 amJeff,Karl, scooter, bolton, condi, cheney, and bush all in public (non-private) prison each with a specially hand picked prison cellmate and a case of vasoline.
August 1st, 2005 at 12:17 amAnd Rummy in Gitmo with a full set of jumper cables, dogs and loud rap music (oh no, not that).
August 1st, 2005 at 12:47 amIt seems the discussion has gotten way off the subject. Basically, Karl Rove, Libby, and Novak should be prosecuted for knowingly violating the nation’s security, a form of treason.
August 1st, 2005 at 1:29 amRove Is Plame Confusing
It’s getting curiouser and curiouser and downright confusing in the Plame scandal, dubbed Rovegate by some, with a Time magazine tidbit that flatly contradicts one of Karl …
August 1st, 2005 at 1:29 amThe bottom line is we only know only pieces of the puzzle and Fitzgerald has got the whole puzzle except one piece (Judy Miller). After reading Fitzgerald’s report each one of the judges were so shocked that they forced journalists to testify or go to jail for they felt there was a “plot against Wilson” which is conspiracy charges coming and this dealt very seriously with our national security. Something big is coming and we just don’t know the whole story.
August 1st, 2005 at 3:46 amMaybe that’s why I’m a PhD
Does he mean Ph.D. or just piled higher and deeper. Sadly, any bimbo can get one these days. They have become meaningless, and it wasn’t the evils of liberalism and affirmative action that cheapened the sheepskin.
August 1st, 2005 at 3:50 amThe bottom line is we only know only pieces of the puzzle and Fitzgerald has got the whole puzzle except one piece (Judy Miller).
Fitzgerald knows what Judy knows. He needs Judy to testify to it. Let her rot until she speaks. She is protecting murderers, criminals and thieves. She is one of them.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ theblog/ archive/ arianna-huffington/ the-judy-file_4933.html
August 1st, 2005 at 4:48 am#23 - Extend your rats-checking-the-ocean-temperature theory beyond Frist-on-stem-cells to the Republican Senators who put the JAG memos into the Senate record.
August 1st, 2005 at 4:57 amWardlow:
Somewhere I read that the neo-cons got Valerie Wilson’s maiden name, Plame, from Who’s Who in Washington. Joe Wilson, a former ambassador, is listed with his wife’s name, Valerie Wilson, nee Plame. Of course, after Plame, the listing doesn’t state “a top-secret, covert CIA operative who specializes in WMD.”
So, if Rove didn’t hear about Plame from a reporter in July 2003, where did he learn it? Probably during one of those White House Iraqi Group (WHIG) meetings in June 2003 that met regularly to map out the neo-cons pre-war strategy for Iraq. Everyone at the WHIG meetings must have known, including Rove. And that has to be the forum where the plot was hatched to smear Joe Wilson by outing his wife as a CIA official, to advance their claim that Joe Wilson was sent to Niger, not because he was an expert and handy, but because his choice (allegedly by his wife) was an act of nepotism. Of course, we all know that no Republican has ever practiced nepotism…right? HaHaHaHaHa.
I pray to God daily that Patrick Fitzgerald will get to the bottom of the devious and devilish doings in the Whitee House. If Mr. Fitzgerald is thwarted, however, we will definitely know the Prince of Lies rules in the Whitee House, and the days of our democracy are numbered.
August 1st, 2005 at 7:56 amall i can say is, when no indictments are issued….fitgerald better have someone else to start his car. the lefty kook squad is way too intolerant to accept the truth, when it comes out. they’ve invested too much kharmic energy on this, too many realities created inside their heads that as usual do not jive with the real world. its gonna get ugly. you heard it here first.
August 1st, 2005 at 8:03 amSomeone asked a good question. Was Valerie Plame the real target? Did the White House want to punish her all along? Or perhaps the CIA team she was working with?
August 1st, 2005 at 8:11 amWhy did they lie?
My God, they had already gotten away with 9/11, why not the outing of a CIA officer? These people believe they are untouchable, like the Mob.
One word: Hubris
August 1st, 2005 at 8:57 amall i can say is, when no indictments are issued….fitgerald better have someone else to start his car. the lefty kook squad is way too intolerant to accept the truth, when it comes out. they’ve invested too much kharmic energy on this, too many realities created inside their heads that as usual do not jive with the real world. its gonna get ugly. you heard it here first.
Comment by fred  August 1, 2005 @ 8:03 am
Shhh! Don’t say anymore. Check beneath your pick-up truck after you start it. A dumbass like you will run yerself over.
August 1st, 2005 at 9:02 amPablo #46
August 1st, 2005 at 9:03 amYou obviously read Ann Coulter and Laura Ingraham — you should pry your eyes away from Fox news once in a while to get your facts straight before you rant — your sources are notoriously fact-free.
Wilson called the White House after Condi Rice appeared on Meet the Press on June 8 2003 saying they didn’t know the Niger documents were forgeries before the SOTU.
Officials told Wilson on his trip to Niger that the Italian documents were forgeries, he put this in his report, and he told the White House in June 2003 that this was known, etc….
The White House blew him off, told him to write an article about it if he wanted attention, and then began to prepare a defense vis Wilson.
Suppose in talking in June 2003 with the CIA about Niger the White House was told that his wife works undercover on WMDs using the name “Plame.” Then, against the wishes of the CIA, the guys in the West Wing decide to use Plame in their attack on Wilson - knowing this would harm her mission and her career.
So they leak “Valerie Plame” to the press throughout June (perhaps using someone loyal who also has press contacts - May Matalin?). When Wilson’s article comes out on July 6 2003 the press is prepared and go to the West Wing about Plame (reporting on Libby has said that he was approached about Plame on July 7th by NBC, Time, and WaPo reporters.
Now the CIA’s in a spot, screwed by the West Wing (perhaps as part of a longer battle between the two).
August 1st, 2005 at 9:27 amHere’s ONE MORE THING: Even if Rove did learn of Mrs. Wilson’s identity through reporters, he still had the legal obligation not to repeat the knowledge.
August 1st, 2005 at 9:40 amEither way you look at it, who is the winner here? We had the support of the world after 9/11 and their fear and respect after the initially successful Afghan op. Now everyone hates the U.S. Iraq and Iran are forging new alliances. We are a bitterly divided country, although the left and the centrists outnumber the right wing extremists, but their shills are in power, and there is a war going on between this administration and people opposed to them in the government. I smell coup d’etat.
August 1st, 2005 at 10:06 amI smell incarceration for dissenters. Things are going to get worse before they get better. We need the CIA and the rightminded Washington insiders to get serious about the job of removing this government. I’m getting closer and closer to packing my bags and moving to…..fill in Western democracy least likely to be invaded by Bush and neocon warhawks here.
August 1st, 2005 at 11:05 am#32, the point about whether ‘Wilson’ or ‘Plame’ was used might concern theories about how the information about Valerie Wilson was circulated. I found this from an article by Roger Morris:
The article is one of the bajillions of chronologies on these events, but Morris seems to have some data points I haven’t seen anywhere else. In particular, seems that the work-up memo on the Wilson mission to Niger done in early June of 2003 at the State Department had a couple of editions, which is how the different versions of the operative’s name has come to be such a thing. (By the way, Plame is just her name before marriage, and not a cover name. J.Wilson has said that she never used a cover name, and simply followed convention in always using Wilson after they married. Thus, outing her as both ‘Plame’ and ‘Wilson’ absolutely guaranteed that a couple of decades of work are down the tubes.)
The first is the June 10 memo requested of State Department/INR by Marc Grossman that I think is better known. The occasion for this memo is not clear from Morris’ chronology, but it seems as if Grossman just wanted to be prepared for, you know, his job—the request was not for info on Wilson per se, but for information to explain ‘the State Department’s opposition to the continuing White House view that Iraq had tried to buy yellow cake,’ as Morris puts it. The memo that INR prepared per this request did describe Wilson’s mission, including how he came to be assigned it, and refers to Valerie Wilson; see Morris’ entry for June 10, 2003.
After the Pincus article of June 12, for which J.Wilson was an anonymous source, appeared, Armitage at State asked the INR on the same day for a memo giving background to the Post article—again, arguably routine. INR sent him the same memo it had just done for Grossman, and then Morris goes all passive on us:
Such circumspection! Anyway, life goes on until July 6, 2003, when Wilson’s op-ed appears in the Times and changes everything. This is where we somehow get the second edition of the memo (forgive me for going on like this, but there’s no way to handle this stuff but plodding on through it, no doubt why we see so many chronologies. But enough of the sorry Melville imitation):
And so to Africa they all go, aboard AF1. I should point out that Morris really has it in for Rice in this article.
So from these two versions of the memo, maybe two paths of communication can be extracted. The main point about the two versions seems to me to be not who might have ‘corrected’ the name from Wilson to Plame, but the fact that there seem to be separate groups of people who saw one version or the other, except for Armitage. Novak wrote ‘Plame’ in ‘Mission to Niger’, so it’s a reasonable guess that his source(s) were involved in that second group, perhaps starting with the one who made the correction, or themselves got their information from that version of the memo.
August 1st, 2005 at 11:05 amThese bushies are too funny! Let’s see, the republican party spends 8 years and how many millions of dollars trying to bring down an ELECTED President Clinton for lying about adultery, among other things, and now you are saying that lying to take our country to war against a soverign country that didn’t pose a threat to us isn’t wrong at all.
I sure as hell hope you aren’t treaching those values to your kids. I sure as hell don’t wan to pay for all their time spent in jails. I know it’s hard to smell the coffee with your heads up your collective asses, but pull ‘em out & smell the coffee…Your boy is the biggest threat to humanity since Hitler.
August 1st, 2005 at 11:09 amJay, I know it, I’m feeling similar.
August 1st, 2005 at 11:25 am#32 again — Actually now that the new stuff from the main post here is sinking into my uncaffeinated brain, I think the premise that only some people—especially associated with the White House staff—knew of a Valerie Plame, and might have thought that that was how she was generally known, applies. But now it sure does seem possible that almost as many people knew of these memos as knew of the impending 9-11 attacks.
August 1st, 2005 at 11:50 am#104 Clinton tried to talk to shrubya about the impending attacks and was poo pooed!
The reason it was poo poo ed, was so shrubya could go to war. He had NO INTENTION of ever bringing Bin Laden to justice, as his daddy was the one that recruited and trained him to be a terriorist. Bin Laden has been on the CIA payroll for nearly 30 years. It was a ploy to get into Afganistan and then onward to Iraq. Sadam also was born in Egypt, and recruited by the CIA and they paid for his apartment in Bagdad while the wheels were put into motion to get him installed as leader.
Any information that tries to shed light on the corrupt plan to invade Iraq is immediately crushed. I.E.: Wilson.
also food for thought:
Why is it that EVERYONE associated with shrubya or shrubya (the smarter) has a questionable past?
Rove - dirty tricks during the Nixon administration and before and after.
Cheeney - Halliburton book cooking and then promotion.
Also, Kellog Brown and Root was Pres. Johnson’s
wifes business which was purchased by Halliburton
under cheeney’s reign.
DeLay - Dirty politician
The guy in Ohio - Coin gate
Roberts - Member (oops forgot to tell that one) of the
Federalist movement. Opposes common sense laws.
AND CIVIL RIGHTS. Involved with the Iran Contra
Cover up and the Florida Election STEAL deal.
Bolton - Overt biggot, bully, nut job nuff said.
I could go on forever.
August 1st, 2005 at 12:24 pmHardball had Peggy Noonan back when this was first being exposed. She made the statement, and I paraphrasing: “That everyone in Washington knew Valeri was CIA.”
How would that be possible? Easy remember how the Republican daily message was always the same word for word by all the republicans all across the country? Even when the message changed, it was instantily known to all Republicans arcoss the country.
PDAs baby. Instantily sending out the messages to everyone at once from Rove’s slime operatives.
Of course when Rove and Scooter knew the entire Repbulican machine knew.
August 1st, 2005 at 12:59 pmOK…suppose that they did learn about Wilson’s wife from a reporter. This means that they are the biggest MORONS to EVER RUN a COUNTRY.
August 1st, 2005 at 4:55 pmI smell incarceration for conservatives. Then executions for treason.
August 1st, 2005 at 9:22 pmI have a dumb question…
Does anyone know if there is an email address for Fitzgerald that people could send information(like
above) like we all see here on the web? I would hate
to see all the work this man is doing go down the drain if Bush and Company decide to really put on the pressure.
I would bet my life that the entire gang will be down
in Crawford making up a new scam to undermine what they have done and they will all come out smelling like roses.
Somehow Fitz needs to know what these jerks are doing.
I am sure he has plenty of people working for him,
but they can’t possibly be on all the blogs or sites
to see what is written.
I am just so frustrated with what is going on that I figured a dumb question might have an answer!!
Thanks.
August 1st, 2005 at 11:53 pmTry this:
AskDOJ@usdoj.gov.
August 2nd, 2005 at 3:45 am“Why did these administration officials lie so overtly to the special prosecutor?”
Easily answered. They’re REPUBLICANS! That’s what they do! They are incapable of telling the truth. They’re all hypocritical lying fascist assholes. Nothing will ever change that. Ever.
August 2nd, 2005 at 12:14 pmHell, we are (pardon my bluntness) pissing up a rope hoping that anyone in “high places” will hear anything we say or even give a flying rat’s aZZ.
Ronald Regan (you remember him, he slept thru 2 terms while the monkeyboy’s daddy screwed up the country) was voted the greatest american on TLC or Discovery channel….Maybe diebold screwed the votes on that one too.
I contacted Tom Colburn (the okie candidate that shrubya endorsed) asking that he impeach or prune the shrub in light of the Treason. (did this on Friday) and last night I was taking the dogs out at 3 a.m. and saw something behind the barn ( i live in the city, but it is somewhat rural). I came in and got the flashlight and went to investigate, I saw a car parked, windows down and key in ignition and digital camera in driver’s seat. I took the key and camera back to the house and went to look further… I wound up chasing 3 guys to the street while calling the police.
I went inside to look at the pictures on the camera and it was a clan rally. Smiling biggots galore. Some in the clown suits.
Police came and found the three looking for the key to their car. (after a small chase through the trees)
Clown suits in the trunk and all, baseball bat by the barn. Hmmmm.
Guess these nazis traded in the brown shirts for cotton percale.
I contacted the media and guess what…. NOTHING
August 3rd, 2005 at 2:06 amCymack #101, thanks, your comments help sort things out about how the name “Plame” came into play; clarifying that “Plame” was not a cover name (as was reported somewhere, not sure where); noting that use of “Plame” and “Wilson” shed light on how the info about Valerie Wilson was circulated; and discussing the two editions-stages of the INR memo. I, too, had pieced together the memo’s “stepped” creation before seeing Morris’ take you mention (from 7-19-05 AP news item and other sources). But the ideas that the editing/changing of “Wilson” to “Plame” was done between version #1 and #2 of INR memo — and that the two versions of memo went to two separate groups of potential sources for the leak — are intriguing.
I take Morris with big, big grain of salt but appreciate your spending time to sort through it all (including Morris) using your own brain. Thanks.
Novak’s “Who’s Who” red herring is designed to throw this whole line of inquiry off track. But that’s OK. There will be an end to spin when Fitz comes in with his report.
August 3rd, 2005 at 7:19 amPS: Rushing to get to work, didn’t mean to leave out others who posted insights on how name “Plame” was circulated and significance of same, and running this whole rat’s nest through your brains, esp The Oracle, Kim and Mudkitty, in addition to Cymack. Thanks for making things clearer.
August 3rd, 2005 at 7:47 amGoes to show ya shouldn’t rush, even to get to work. Cymack, need more sourcing other than discredited Roger Morris for the switch of name from Wilson to Plame from version #1 and #2 of INR memo. Do you know of any? If not, can’t go with it and that would be too bad because it’s so temptingly elegant. But wrong is wrong unless more sourcing. Thanks.
August 3rd, 2005 at 8:10 amSorry, Wardlaw, I haven’t run into anything else as specific as the Morris article. But I’m sure that there’ve been other blog discussions about more than one version of the memo and possibly about the name change occuring while it sat around for nearly a month… hmmm, let’s try DailyKos… yes, here are a few posts that cover some part of the story:
emptywheel at dailykos, who refers to this NYTimes article. In the Times article the memo refers to Valerie Wilson, though it was made from notes that included neither her nor Joseph Wilson’s name. This article then notes Novak’s use of the name Valerie Plame.
a WPost article that helped break the story that Wilson’s identity had been marked secret. By the way, the Post article also reports something that I hope was clear in my post above, that the memo originally was likely to be just a legitimate assembly and circulation of facts to those who really needed them, and that the subject of the memo was the finding—for about the third time by a US govt. agent [and at least the fifth overall(*)]—that there was probably nothing to the uranium purchase story. If that is true, then it would be almost what I’m learning lawyers call consciousness of guilt for someone to seize on
as Pincus+VanderHei say someone described it, and run with that. Something like a fingerprint for the corrupting, irresponsible types that did this. But I digress. This Post article has nothing explicit about a re-editing of the memo. (*)I count an unspecified European intel agency (French?), US Amb. Owens-Kirkpatrick (Niger), USMC Gen. Fulford (EUCOMM), fmr. US Amb. Wilson, all of whom found negative results by early March, 2002; and Italian journalist Burba, who found similarly in autumn of 2002; I think you can find them all at Derek Mitchell’s Iraq Timeline at CCR.
I need to drop this for now, but no, I’m not finding any corroboration for the INR memo being ‘corrected’ from Wilson to Plame, either.
August 4th, 2005 at 11:06 amWhy are they waiting until October to hand out any possible indictments?
They didn’t use a “cooling off period” for Clinton.
August 7th, 2005 at 6:06 pmIt is sad to think that any presidency could be involved in so many secretive issues that show mistrust of the American people… Yet, from Plame/Wilson to pre-war Iraq misdirections something seems awry…
I do not know all the details of what has happened… I am not privy to the special prosecutor’s knowlege…
August 26th, 2005 at 7:48 amIf there are “high crimes” involved as John Dean in his book,”Worse than Watergate” seems to present…
well… I can only hope that justice will be served and some preventative measures for potential dictators be put in place… e.g. a person testing wind velocity while hanging from a rope seems appropriate… Afterall, Watergate didn’t seem to act as a proper deterrent… May the web of secrecy unravel and get our country back into the hands of its citizens…
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Borrow money online and earn extra income
Borrow money online and earn extra income
Borrow money online and earn extra income
Healthy lifestyle tips, free yoga class, male body massage and yoga for kids
Healthy lifestyle tips, free yoga class, male body massage and yoga for kids
Healthy lifestyle tips, free yoga class, male body massage and yoga for kids
Healthy lifestyle tips, free yoga class, male body massage and yoga for kids