Breaking: Novak Explodes Live on CNN
Just now on CNN’s Inside Politics, in the midst of a ho-hum discussion about Katherine Harris’ Senate race:
Novak: Just let me finish what I’m going to say, James, please. I know you hate to hear me —
Carville: He’s got to show these right-wingers that he’s got a back bone, ya know? Wall Street Journal editorial page is watching. You show ‘em you’re tough…
Novak: You know I think that’s bullshit. And I hate that. Just let it go.
Novak removes his microphone and walks off the set.
Update I: Novak Was About to Be Asked About Leak The Inside Politics host ended the Carville/Novak segment saying, “Thanks, James Carville. And I’m sorry as well that Bob Novak left the set a little early. I had told him in advance that we were going to ask about the CIA leak case, he was not here for me to be able to ask him about that. Hopefully, we’ll be able to ask him about that in the future.”
Update II: Media Matters has the video.
Update III: Flashback to the first time Ed Henry challenged Novak to talk about the Plame leak, on June 29. Novak wasn’t very happy then, either:
HENRY: Do you understand why in general there’s frustration among fellow journalist after 41 years of distinguished work, where you’ve always pushed and been a fierce advocate of the public’s right to know, you’re not letting the public know about such a critical case, and two people may go to jail.
NOVAK: Well, they are not going to jail because of me. Whether I answer your questions or not, it has nothing to do with that. That’s very ridiculous to think that I am the cause of their going to jail. I don’t think they should be going to jail.
HENRY: Yes. But I didn’t say you were the cause. But there are some people…
NOVAK: Yes, you do did.
HENRY: No, but some people feel if you would come forward with the information that you have, that maybe they would not go to jail.
NOVAK: But you don’t know — Ed, you don’t know anything about the case. And those people who say that don’t know anything about the case. And unfortunately, as somebody who likes to write, I’d like to say a lot about the case, but because of my attorney’s advice I can’t. But I will. And there might be some surprising things.
HENRY: We’ll all be waiting to hear that story finally told, Bob.
who was carville talking about?
August 4th, 2005 at 5:04 pmDon’t let the door hit you on the way out, Bob.
Aww screw it, let it hit you hard.
August 4th, 2005 at 5:05 pmWhat a dipshit. Novak can dish it out easy enough when he has a liberal on the carpet.
August 4th, 2005 at 5:06 pmit’s hard work being a traitor……….lots a stress.
You guys just don’t understand.
August 4th, 2005 at 5:11 pmNovak should be in jail for what he did. I’m glad he blew his cool on-air.
August 4th, 2005 at 5:14 pmJust like all the NeoCons? Remember when O’Lielly walked off the set when Terri Gross was interviewing him? Same sort of thing… they can dish it out, but like most Chickenhawks, can’t take the heat of incoming rounds.
August 4th, 2005 at 5:18 pmis that type of language allowed? poor Bob can’t take the heat…
August 4th, 2005 at 5:19 pmLike all CONservatives - they check out when confronted directly. Their brain is so pre-conditioned to live in their fantasy - that a direct confrontation which challenges these lies is met with either their full shutdown or them taking their ball and going home.
The ‘truth’ so undermines their delusion - that they can’t integrate it, and the psychosis they seem to almost all universally suffer from REQUIRES they shut out that truth. I attribute this to child abuse. So many CONservatives I’ve met as ‘friends’, all seem to have very dysfunctional relationships with an overly dominant father that restricts their emotional and psychological development. They develop some wierd hatred of women - and turn into absolute freaks!
August 4th, 2005 at 5:20 pmIt is about time.
August 4th, 2005 at 5:20 pmBOOO HOO ……….Tee HEE HEE HEE
August 4th, 2005 at 5:23 pmNovak belongs in a cell at Guantanamo Bay.
August 4th, 2005 at 5:28 pmI haven’t looked but I have no doubts that the righty blogs are now saying what a he man he was in the face of a scurrilous liberal like Carville.
Ya know, if a democrat had done any of this while Clinton was President, he’d have been burned at Ken Starr’s which-hunt stake by now (and proclaimed evil).
See this? You don’t? It’s the worlds smallest violin playin’ for ya Bob….
August 4th, 2005 at 5:29 pmduh-oh! witch, not which.
August 4th, 2005 at 5:30 pmI really think we should all start calling CNN and demanding an on air apology for Novak’s language!! His demeanor & language were far uglier than whats-her-faces boob.
August 4th, 2005 at 5:30 pmI can honestly tell CNN that my children were alarmed by his language. (that my children are furry & were alarmed by my whooping at his language, they don’t need to know)
He did it on purpose so not to have to talke about the leak.
I sure hope all the conservative Christians watching flip out just as much as they did with the Superbowl Show. I doubt they will but it would be nice to see them hold their convictions when a fellow conservative behaves as poorly as Novak did. Will CNN have to pay for his foul language? Maybe a lifetime ban from CNN is in order. Stay Tuned
August 4th, 2005 at 5:31 pmwonder if we can get the FCC to issue a fine?
August 4th, 2005 at 5:32 pmDid you see the Arlen Specter op-ed on Novak 8/4 ?
August 4th, 2005 at 5:33 pmwonder how CNN will reward Bob’s temper-tantrum.
August 4th, 2005 at 5:35 pmnovak is suppose to be a professional journalist (and yes, I just choked on that comment). journalist go after every little bit of scandel - it appears that journalist are the ones that are the ones who are very thin skinned.
All it takes for a fine is 12 people to complain. I’ll be number one, anybody else wanna join in?
August 4th, 2005 at 5:35 pmI was watching when he he flipped. It was the funniest thing I’ve seen in a while. I’m wondering if I should complain to the FCC. I would’nt in any other case.
August 4th, 2005 at 5:36 pmDamn, at first I though he had literally exploded.
August 4th, 2005 at 5:40 pmIf Novak was fined I would say we should complain.
otherwise who cares. john stewart has said worse on his show, and they didn’t bleep it out.
August 4th, 2005 at 5:41 pmis that type of language allowed? - if you’re a R, yes. Like when Britt Hume said “balls” to Juan Williams on FNews Sunday.
IOKIYAR.
August 4th, 2005 at 5:42 pmIt was “Sit”. His dentures were a jinglin’ and a janglin’.
August 4th, 2005 at 5:45 pmI already called.
August 4th, 2005 at 5:45 pmIt was fun!! I got to play outraged Conservative mom to 4… he he
CNN is on cable. It’s not regulated by the FCC.
Still, I feel pretty certain that Novakula just violated CNN policy.
August 4th, 2005 at 5:47 pmOMG. What a grand day. I love live TV. That said, it would seem it was more like Bob changed his mind about being questioned in the Plame/Wilson matter. Albeit a dramtic ploy but a ploy all the same.
August 4th, 2005 at 5:47 pmthe FCC should not have to wait for complaints - they go ahead and should investigate and issue a fine. but then, the FCC is run by bush’s boys so it’ll be another slap on the wrist and walk for novak.
August 4th, 2005 at 5:47 pmReality bites and this time it bit the treasonous Robert Novak in his fat, sagging ass.
Run along bastard and medicate yourself at the Palms.
. . .
August 4th, 2005 at 5:52 pmThe questioner, Ed Henry, had questioned Novak pretty hard a few weeks ago and Novak hadn’t been on this portion of the show since then. He just couldn’t take the heat apparently. Carville’s comment was no different than he usually is. Bob’s getting old and probably can’t sleep at night knowing Judith Miller sits in jail (where he should be instead).
When was the last time a Dem cussed/walked off one of these hot sessions on the air?
August 4th, 2005 at 5:52 pmNext breaking story: CNN finally gets a ratings showing that outdoes recent liberal election results (i.e. losers) thanks to Novak….
August 4th, 2005 at 5:55 pmI’m sure it was just a “language mishap.”
August 4th, 2005 at 5:59 pmBillie Jo,
Both Novak AND Judy deserve to be in jail. Judy’s far from innocent.
August 4th, 2005 at 6:00 pmThanks!
Cross-linked at http://www.boomantribune.com
August 4th, 2005 at 6:00 pmI agree novak should apologize for his language - CNN should insist on this, but my guess is that if novak actually did apologize he would sned it in writing cause he wouldn’t have the guts to do it facing a camera.
August 4th, 2005 at 6:00 pmCarville: He’s got to show these right-wingers that he’s got a back bone, ya know?
This is not quite right; I think it was actually, “You’ve got to show these right-wingers that you’ve got a back bone. . .” which makes a bit more sense out of the situation:
1. Carville starts talking over Novak.
2. Novak says, “Let me finish what I’m gonna say. . .”
3. Carville keeps talking, saying that he (Carville) has to stand up to rightwingers (Novak).
4. Novak says that’s bullshit and walks out.
It’s as if Novak had never been on a political talk show before. It seemed to me that he was upset about the etiquette of the situation. Bizarre.
August 4th, 2005 at 6:01 pmI am glad to see someone stand up to a person who can’t stop listening to himself…it is a wonder that more people don’t just walk off of some of these news programs. Good job Bob Novak
August 4th, 2005 at 6:02 pmIt’s Novaks’ pre-interpretive play of the Iraq pullout!
August 4th, 2005 at 6:20 pmPlease, Novak has dealt out and been on the recieving end of far worse than this. This was a bizarre, unprofessional scene on Novak’s part. I can’t wait to see what Jon Stewart does with this on the Daily Show.
August 4th, 2005 at 6:21 pm[…] Think Progress has more here. […]
August 4th, 2005 at 6:22 pm#37,
Are you defending Novak?
August 4th, 2005 at 6:23 pmNovak has broken down the 4th wall of the political shill. Bravo.
August 4th, 2005 at 6:30 pm“It’s as if Novak had never been on a political talk show before. ”
He hasn’t. Most media allows right wing hosts to shut off the camera and microphone of anyone who says something truly confrontational to their right wing buddies. OLeilly and HandJob do that all of the time. Novak is just not used to having his head handed to him, and showed what a bunch of wussies the right wingers all are. He just demonstrated another example of the bully principle. Dems need to take a lesson in this - they’re all really wimps trying to overcomponsate and they can’t handle truly direct confrontation!
August 4th, 2005 at 6:39 pmToday’s Bob Novak-CNN detonation is just a symptom of the increasing pressure. The CIA-Valerie Plame Leak story is DIRECTLY TIED to the ongoing Pentagon spy story. The common factor is named “Michael Ledeen” - Google that using the news setting, you’ll see that Ledeen is behind a LOT of the pressure that Novak is feeling. It’s all coming to a head. The count-down to the end of the Bush White House has officially begun.
I’m also betting that another HUGE story is about to break, probably a high government official being hospitalized. Maybe a terrorist attack in Israel.
August 4th, 2005 at 6:42 pmYou lib’s are such sore losers. Don’t look now but you party is a cult of dope addicts, ulgy people and fools… keep it up!
August 4th, 2005 at 6:47 pmNovack didn’t crack up, he rigged the whole performance. He knew Carville would say something he could take offense at and he would use that to walk off the set. Look at his face, he was releived, not angry.
August 4th, 2005 at 6:51 pmMaybe he is angling to be let out of his contract for the fortress-like protection of a FOX NEWS job.
August 4th, 2005 at 6:52 pm#45 - ulgy people? Is that near Ukraine?
August 4th, 2005 at 6:53 pmjim,
Bahahaha, how funny you are! Coming from someone who voted for a coke head alcoholic that looks like howdie doodie - bahaha…
Considering that the majority of actors, models and other beautiful people are democrats - I’d say your little delusion must be really important to your mental stability for you to cling to it in the absolute onslaught of evidence that shows you are a stupid, fat ugly rube for a redneck state…
August 4th, 2005 at 6:53 pmVery Andy Kaufmanesque.
August 4th, 2005 at 6:54 pmSimon,
If Novak is shown to have lied to his editors about the Plame incident - he might need a new job… I bet the pressure is heating up on him!
August 4th, 2005 at 6:54 pmLanguage malfunctions seem rampant in this Administration. Oh, you mean Nofacts isn’t part of this Administration? Oh of course not! *nudge* *nudge* *wink* *wink*!
August 4th, 2005 at 6:55 pm#45
Drug addicts? Like Rush Limbaush? Like Jeb Bush’s daughter? Sore losers? Who are we talking about who just walked off a tv set–Bob Novak, noted “liberal”?
David Brock was right when he talked about how YOU guys are given to projection, 24/7!
(For all I know, you are even an “ulgy” person)
August 4th, 2005 at 6:57 pmHey ryan,
Oh yes, I forgot about that the “actors, and models” the big clique of dope head delusionals that you morons worship. Yes, I’d put my life an the future of my country in there hands any day….what a great base for a political party…actors, and models… Dope.
August 4th, 2005 at 7:05 pm#45 - people that get cheated - might be just a tad “sore”. Sore losers are the repugs in the
Washington state elections.
Make certain elections are fair an honest - then if the taliban right wing wins - then I will stfu, until then - you jim can stfu.
Novak should be in jail ALONG with Judith.
August 4th, 2005 at 7:05 pmAh, when the going gets tough, the ‘tough’ get going –right out the door.
I saw Bag-eyed Bob giving some speech on C-SPAN to young conservatives; he looked shaky and even more like a resurrected corpse than usual. I swear, he was rolling his eyes like an elephant getting a fire hose enema.
It could be that his lawyer has informed him he’s being indicted by Pat Fitzgerald for perjury, obstruction of justice and — possibly — even treason under the Espionage Act of 1917. How would that look on Mr. Patriotic Conservative’s All-American resume?
August 4th, 2005 at 7:06 pmMichael Ledeen is Karl Rove’s international affairs advisor, a close friend of John Bolton, Ledeen was formerly a member of Bush’s Defence Policy Advisory council, he was a “Project for a New American Century” advocate and close friend of some Italian fascist spies *recently arrested in Italy*. He’s also a friend and colleague of Lawrence Franklin, who was *indicted in the Federal courts* TODAY (again!) Ledeen is widely believed to be the man who ACTUALLY FORGED the “Niger Yellow-Cake” document that started the CIA-Valerie Plame investigation - He also wrote a book (back in the 70’s) about the glories and the righteousness of a new concept called “World Fascism”.
The fascists and the Nazis aren’t a controversial, rhetorical IMAGINARY LINK, thy’re REALLY LINKED.
We the People didn’t make that link, the Bush administration did - whenever they decided to HIRE Michael Ledeen.
The countdown continues…
…tic, tic, tic, tic, tic…
August 4th, 2005 at 7:07 pm“Oh yes, I forgot about that the “actors, and modelsâ€? the big clique of dope head delusionals that you morons worship.”
Delusional morons? We don’t worship you! As for dope heads - I noticed you had no response to the fact that you continue to vote for one. Why do you hate american so much?
” Yes, I’d put my life an the future of my country in there hands any day….what a great base for a political party…actors, and models… Dope.”
Hmmm…. Yet your future IS in the hand of coke head alcoholic - keep drinking the koolaid rube!
August 4th, 2005 at 7:16 pmThe transcript is available here
August 4th, 2005 at 7:17 pmI’m still laughing! I wonder if he’s got a padded green room?
August 4th, 2005 at 7:19 pmjim w/head in the lou,
What does this story have to do with Hollywood celebrities? Go back to huffin’ paint. Its the only excuse for your idiocy.
August 4th, 2005 at 7:19 pmBob is the terry schiavo of pundits, pull his plug, long overdue.
August 4th, 2005 at 7:24 pm[…] Source […]
August 4th, 2005 at 7:28 pmWell, god bless you. I wish the best for you. I really don’t belive that you think Old W is a alcho coker. that’s just retoric.
August 4th, 2005 at 7:30 pmTime for me to go to the zendo and have a little sit.
good luck.
skid mark 61,
August 4th, 2005 at 7:33 pmsee #45, 49, 54
also, get a hair cut you bum.
#64 actually W has acknowledged being an Alchoholic, and his adventures with Coke are legend. He may/may not be doing it anymore - though the pretzel incident makes one wonder. His apparent inability to speak the english language in a coherent manner maybe do to the partying he did in the past. Alcholol gives you a buzz by killing brain cells.
August 4th, 2005 at 7:34 pmNovak is not longer respected and his career is finished. But he’s right Rove, Libby and Bush will not get fired. Bush will give an exective order for himself and friends. We have the new US that has a dictator and until the Americans stand up he will rule.
August 4th, 2005 at 7:35 pmThe Unified Field Theory of Rampant GOP Corruption:
No matter HOW good your juggling skills are, it’s just IMPOSSIBLE to keep THIS many scandals aloft all at once!
CIA-Valerie Plame Leak Investigation
The Pentagon Spy Scandal
Robert Novak/Karl Rove’s Leaking History
(got Rove FIRED from the Bush 41 campaign!)
John Bolton’s Secret Intelligence Requests
Scandals of the Bush administration’s Archivist
The Lawrence Franklin Indictments
The “Nigerian Yellow-Cake” Forgery
The Downing Street Memo
Several of the 9-11 Hi-Jackers Showing-Up ALIVE - doing TV interviews for BBC reporters
…and sadly, what Greg Palast calls:
“The Silence of the Media Lambs”
It’s all linked together thru Ledeen.
August 4th, 2005 at 7:36 pmRegarding #8 above isn’t it the same reason that Bush’s public appearances are all scripted and the audience is hand picked Repuglicans…so he won’t have to think off the script…Birds of a feather, Bush and Nofacts, O’Lielly and Hannity and of course Limberger.
August 4th, 2005 at 7:42 pm9-11 hi-jackers alive ???
August 4th, 2005 at 7:42 pmHaven’t heard that one.
Jim in St. Lou:
“Oh yes, I forgot about that the “actors, and models� the big clique of dope head delusionals that you morons worship.�
uh-huh, Like Raygun? Like Arnold?
August 4th, 2005 at 7:44 pm9-11 Hijackers Alive on BBC
Link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/ 1/ hi/ world/ middle_east/ 1559151.stm
August 4th, 2005 at 7:45 pm#38
August 4th, 2005 at 7:49 pmGenius!
Unveiler, thanks for the link.
August 4th, 2005 at 7:50 pmUnbelivable.
Things just keep getting weirder by the day.
Bob rocks, Carville is a fairy.
August 4th, 2005 at 7:51 pm#45 Ugliest people I ever seen in St.Louis
August 4th, 2005 at 7:53 pmI think james C is a big old sexy man!!!
August 4th, 2005 at 7:53 pm#12 World’s smallest violin — I love it!! It’s perfect.
August 4th, 2005 at 7:53 pmHas anyone here ever tried typing “www.cokedealer.com” into their address bar and then hitting the “Enter” key? …just wonderin’.
=* )
All things being equal, the simplest, most obvious answer is usually the right answer. Whatever is left, after you rule-out all the other possibilities thru the process of elimination, no matter how improbable, is also generally the truth.
..and “*The Might Wurlitzer*” continues to play.
(Google it!)
Bella, Ciao’;
August 4th, 2005 at 7:55 pm- Genoa Fascista -
#50
August 4th, 2005 at 7:56 pmGenius!
…you’re welcome, Keith H.!
Have a nice WELL-INFORMED day, Good People!
August 4th, 2005 at 7:58 pmCNN just suspended Novak! First they cancel crossfire, then they suspend Novak - is it possible CNN is waking up from the ether that is the CONservative insanity?
August 4th, 2005 at 8:09 pmPlaid,
August 4th, 2005 at 8:19 pmThanks for connecting the dots for everyone. I heard last week about a connection between Rove/Bolton and the faking of the Niger-Uranium documents in the first place, but I hadn’t put it all together.
I am crossing my fingers that this all explodes in their faces. ASAP.
#54
August 4th, 2005 at 8:23 pmYou guys ridicule any Hollywood type who is not of your ilk — except for the ones you prefer like Ron Silver, Bruce Willis, Robert Duvall, Tommy Lee Jones, and of course Ah-nold and the rest.
You just don’t see your own hypocrisy. Frankly I would choose Paul Newman who donates all his food products profits to sick children over any one of your macho-chickenhawks-righties.
Novak is toast! One common thread among all these giant egos is that they never quit until they make fools of themselves. I really think Novak is suffering under the stress of his lies, his federal trouble, and his disintegrating support among hs peers, and most importantly, he can see that the W.H. gang will leave him hanging out to dry in the sun.
August 4th, 2005 at 8:28 pmSun — that destroys vampires doesn’t it?
When I get into a debate with a repug, I use their own tactics on them..
Don’t answer their questions. Spin them. Keep asking questions to make them blow up. Like:
How do you feel about Hitler? How about gay marriage? Treason? Do you like supporting the most hated man in the universe? Do you like the fact that the shrubs were nazi supporters, both financially and physically? Since you love shrubya so much, I suppose you think treason is OK.
They blow up and it is just sooooooo fun!
August 4th, 2005 at 8:29 pm[…] Note: I think it was all a ploy to get his undead visage on TV and yet scamper away before having to talk about Plamegate: Thanks, James Carville. And I’m sorry as well that Bob Novak left the set a little early. I had told him in advance that we were going to ask about the CIA leak case, he was not here for me to be able to ask him about that. Hopefully, we’ll be able to ask him about that in the future. […]
August 4th, 2005 at 8:30 pmJim in the lou,
You need to keep better tabs on me, my haircut was yesterday. Thanks for caring though.
August 4th, 2005 at 8:31 pmOne Fish, Two Fish,
Red Fish, Bush-Fish?
http://www.bushfish.org/
August 4th, 2005 at 8:36 pmNovak is living proof that Rethuglicans can’t take it — they can only dish it out. No accountability. No responsibility.
August 4th, 2005 at 8:40 pmNote Katherine Harris — she can’t even take responsibility for her own eye shadow and mascara!
Well I just saw it. It’s pretty surreal how they keep on talking without missing a beat.
August 4th, 2005 at 8:44 pmIt was a thing of beauty, a wonderful thing to watch. A good Catholic boy like Bob swearing and losing his temper than acting like a spoiled child who can’t have his own way. Nothing against Catholics, I’ve been one all my life. What ever happened to “turning the other cheek” Bob?
August 4th, 2005 at 8:48 pmMy son has been a bad boy.
August 4th, 2005 at 8:51 pmGood advice #86 - they can’t take the heat fer shore/
August 4th, 2005 at 8:54 pmI think Novak has dementia - he forgets his own lies so easily anymore that he contradicts himself almost weekly… Sad little maggot..
August 4th, 2005 at 8:56 pmYou kids are so funny….Won any elections that matter lately? Feh.
August 4th, 2005 at 9:05 pm#96
August 4th, 2005 at 9:08 pmHey, Rush — your drug store’s calling.
Duck,
Dems won both the last 2 presidential elections according to the same techniques that the Pentagon used to determine the election in the Ukraine was rigged…
Guess you didn’t see the several links during the last few days - or the new harpers article which basically confirms that it’s a statistical impossiblity that CONservatives actually won the last election. It certainly explains why Bush has a 40 some percent approval rating. More americans voted against him than for him, but criminals like you prefer to steal elections than actually provide a reasonable argument and win them fairly. It’s typical of fascism - you guys are always more concerned about having your way, than you are having democracy… The fight or flight lizard brain has such a hold over you - too sad for you and the rest of us that have to expose your criminality.
August 4th, 2005 at 9:14 pm#96
August 4th, 2005 at 9:16 pmthank Diebold! brave sh*t head (!)
I have no doubt that this is a pre-emptive “break-up” between CNN and Novak….CNN is the same as Time…Neither wants thier name or employee’s mentioned in the same paragraph with Judith Miller and the NYT….I have to admit it was a little more creative than “to spend time with my family”
August 4th, 2005 at 9:21 pmBye, bye Novak!!! (it’s about time your reptilian face went off the air and believe me, we won’t be missing it!!!!!!!!!)
Carville did a great job and we love him. He’s one of the best the dems have along with Paul B and Bob B. You go boys!!!!!!!!! (and yes # 77 James is sexy and cute)
August 4th, 2005 at 9:26 pmBob Novak is an American Icon. Good work Bob, tell Carville to kiss your ass.
August 4th, 2005 at 9:32 pmIf he is not going to jail, send Novak over to Fox News where he belongs.
August 4th, 2005 at 9:49 pmfraudulent,
Actually Triad and Diebold machines were both involved. In the 10 states that use standard paper trail voting machines the exit polls never deviated more than 1% from the exit polls. There’s a simple table that shows exactly how much fraud there was in the 2004 election.
Number of states
that deviated by 2000 2004
1% or less 39 9
2% or less 3 20
3% or less 2 8
over 3% 6 16
This is of course the number of states that deviate from exit polling numbers. This indicates that at least 6 states had already succumbed to tampering in 2000, as this 3% threshold is generally excepted as a guarantee of tampering - whereas 16 states demostrated this level of tampering in 2004. When we consider the increase in new tamper prone electronic machines in the more recent election - it’s clear this is an increasing trend.
When you consider that the 10 states that have only older machines were all within ~1% (One state was almost exactly 1% but slightly over it) of deviation samplewise - then it’s clear that only those 10 states are now safe for democratic voting. All other states are to some degree infested with CONservative vote rigging. The gauntlet has been thrown, and CONservative fascists have shown they are capable and willing of thwarting the democracy. If efforts are not made to make all 50 states tamper proof for the next election - no amount of public opinion or voting will change the outcome!
August 4th, 2005 at 10:06 pmRyan,
too bad we couldn’t all refuse to use the electronic voting machines and insist on using a paper ballot instead. Make our vote and drop it in a little box with our name and tel or address for verification reasons. If that was possible, it would really screw up their little scam.
August 4th, 2005 at 10:18 pmUnveiler & Keith H:
August 4th, 2005 at 10:25 pmNote that the BBC story is from 9/23/01.
Don’t believe everything you think.
August 4th, 2005 at 10:25 pmThe only rigging that took place was the exit polling data.
This is goin’ make a great “Great Moments in Punditry as Read by Children” on The Daily Show!
August 4th, 2005 at 10:34 pmBartkid - That would be hilarious. I can’t wait to see how Stewart handles this.
August 4th, 2005 at 10:41 pmWhatever fish.
August 4th, 2005 at 10:51 pmfish,
That’s an interesting way for the right wing to spin their vote rigging. Too bad international monitors found the same results that their american counterparts did! Didn’t see that coming didn’t you? CONservatives always come so ILL PREPARED! This sure explains all of those failing grades for Bush that had to get converted to ‘gentlemen Cs’…
August 4th, 2005 at 11:03 pmJust saw the clip. Novak doesn’t have it in him to react spontaneously like a normal human being. That seeemed calculated, like everything else that bunch does. Who knows maybe his legal team advised him to walk off to any avoid any possible verbal mistakes.
August 4th, 2005 at 11:09 pmAnybody ever notice when CONservatives are confronted with something the only way they know how to respond is to insult, belittle, bully or just outright ignore the subject?
Case in point with the few comments by rethuglicans in this blog.
Perfect example: When Dickhead Cheney was asked about Dean’s comment about the Christian right being white, he just made some comment to the effect that nobody but Howard’s mother likes him.
That’s the way they handle everything. When they can’t come up with an intelligent response - which is seldom - they resort to child like attacks - name calling, ridicule etc.
I am a Christian but I fear the Christian right. They are the most unforgiving, intolerant and unreasonable people I have ever met.
I will never forgive the right wing for killing Frank Zappa. Yes, they feared his activism and gave him prostate cancer.
August 4th, 2005 at 11:10 pmI just saw that video, and that strikes me as nothing surprising. Just your everyday, typical conservative who couldn’t take the cover up, so he just did what Bush has been doing throughout his presidency, not confronting it. They work under the ideology that if they ignore the facts and the issues they’ll just go away, and they won’t have to worry about them. To me (and this especially pertains to Bush) if you don’t have anything to hide, then why not talk about it? Why keep avoiding the facts? Why keep ignoring everything if you don’t have anything to be ashamed of? The answer should be self evident to anyone with a brain, so I’ll let the conservative nut jobs out there rack their brain to try to figure it out.
August 4th, 2005 at 11:17 pmRPM,
I have no problems calling people names that matter, the problem is that CONservative are guilty of utter hypocrisy on this subject. They talk a good ‘values’ game, but they only apply those standards to other. It’s typical CONservativism - do as I say, and I’ll do whatever i want…
August 4th, 2005 at 11:18 pmJosh,
But you’ve nailed the issue! ’shame’ is exactly what dictates CONservatism. Because they never develop a healthy relationship with their father, they’re ashamed that they don’t measure up as men. That’s why they try to ‘prove’ they’re manly by subjegating women (calling them feminazis, denying them abortion rights, attacking gay people, etc.). Out of their shame for their own inadequacy they act out and go to attack those they perceive as weaker than them. Because they perceive liberals as ‘permissive’, they are falsely deluded into believing liberal values are a weakness - when in fact the confidence it takes to be accepting of others, and willing to investigate and revisit ones values is a sign of strength and health. But in their twisted psychosis they delude themselves and what they’re doing… It’s really sad to watch! If they weren’t such a$$e$ about it, I’d have a lot more compassion for them.
August 4th, 2005 at 11:26 pm106
The world trade center was bombed on 9/11/01. This information came out after that date.
August 4th, 2005 at 11:29 pmAw, Novak just had a case of the runs.
August 4th, 2005 at 11:45 pmRyan,
The vote rigging fantasy is sleepy. What happens when Billary Rotten Rodham
gets elected Prez., I guess then it will all be on the up and up? The Repubs will have lost there mystical ability to steal elections? You just can’t admit to your selves that most of America thinks you are a bunch of kooks with bad ideas.
As for the international monitors, you think they might have a little bias?
me thinks it could be so. Undermine America at any cost. Don’t forget that there are plenty of governments that would love to see us broken and sadly you drink up most of their poison.
ÂÂ
August 4th, 2005 at 11:52 pmThis doesn’t even come close to Al Franken’s freakouts!!!! That’s what liberals do, isn’t it? Get hysterical, do some name calling (Bush = Nazi), throw some chairs. Cut off debate with below the belt insults. That’s what Carvell did. That’s Lyin Ryan does. Spends a lot of time belittling people who “don’t think like him”. Well, a name calling biggot is what Lyin Ryan might call Limbaugh or some CONservative. Pot meet kettle.
August 4th, 2005 at 11:52 pmYou know what strikes me as even more provacative? The very fact that Bush hired Rove in the first place. That shows his demeanor right there, surrounding himself with the worst people he can possible find. One would think he wouldn’t have hired a man that his father, in 1991, fired for none other than leaking information to who? ROBERT NOVAK! Once a crook always a crook. I just wish the media would do a little journalistic research, and they would find out about that.
August 4th, 2005 at 11:53 pmDon’t you realize all Conservatives are in some stage of Alzheimers? LOL They all go the way of Ronnie Raygun and Charleton Heston - I will pay the day ann coulter wears diapers.
August 4th, 2005 at 11:56 pmscuse emoi - i meant of course i will pay admission to see ann coulter the day she wears diapers - did i mention I am a conservative?
August 4th, 2005 at 11:58 pmSteed,
Wow, poor thing. You defend Limbaugh and Coulter who name call, yet you accuse liberals of this act? Bahaha, how funny!
As for insults, I called you a stupid idiot, and you continue to demonstrate this. So come on, how did I lie? I back up EVERYTHING I say with links, math, statistics and science. You simply say stupid things. Frankly how you rationalize your existence in the face of such an overhwelming challenge to your reality must be a profound task…
August 4th, 2005 at 11:59 pmRyan,
August 5th, 2005 at 12:02 amJust one clarification for you.
a woman’s right to abortion = a womans right to kill her child.
there is big money made off of young urban girls aborting there children.
Groups like planned parenthood make boo koo $ selling these destroyed children to companies to do “science tests”. Thats pretty bad.
fish,
Glad I struck a cord with you. Anytime a CONservative like you disengages their reality, I know it’s their defense mechanism because they’ve found the truth and are just to chicken to admit it…
See your theories are interesting, albeit STUPID as usual. First of all multiple sources came up with the same statistical anomolies, independent of each other. The fact that some of these sources are republican controlled media companies, and even GOVERNMENTAL shows your continuing self willed ignorance.
If hillary wins, it will be because people are so pissed they can’t rig enough votes in the ‘diebold’ regions to overcome it. Considering that all but 10 states now show statistical anomolies that our own pentagon KNOW is fraud, that’s highly unlikely.
As for american disapproval - ALL polling shows the exact opposite. Only 48 percent of americans even had a positive approval rating of bush during the 2004 election. Your delusion that the majority of americans share your ideals is just that - a delusion…
August 5th, 2005 at 12:03 amryan# 119
August 5th, 2005 at 12:04 amFish,
You’re dumber than a rope. A baby is defined as alpha waves, and abortion is on fetuses not baby. The fact that you reject science out of your utter and complete stupidity, just shows how profoundly mentally handicapped you are…
August 5th, 2005 at 12:05 amDear Josh:
August 5th, 2005 at 12:05 amI always thought Rove hired Bush - lets face it, Rove was just too ugly to run - so he found the most stupid yokel he could and hired him to play president.
Delusion indeed.
August 5th, 2005 at 12:06 amAnd, there is nothing more redundant than a bunch of men discussing abortion.
August 5th, 2005 at 12:07 amfish,
Wow, that’s so logical. Planned parenthood is in it for the vast profits of selling babies? That tin foil helmet is burning a hole in what’s left of your brain.
August 5th, 2005 at 12:07 amhave you ever seen a 3 month old baby?
August 5th, 2005 at 12:07 amIf you had mabe the angry little man would pipe down a bit and the human
August 5th, 2005 at 12:09 amwould stand up.
fish,
Terri Schiavo looked just like a woman - that’s emotion, not science. Retarded microbes like you always seem to have trouble distinguishing the difference between emotional irrationality and science.
August 5th, 2005 at 12:09 amFish,
Stop talking to those voices that keep telling you to type stupid things… You’re receiving CBN and the Christian Taliban idiots channel..
August 5th, 2005 at 12:10 amReclusive,
You’re right, I stand corrected, lol. And lets face it, the only way Rove is going to get fired is if Rove tells Bush to fire Rove.
August 5th, 2005 at 12:10 amreclusive,
August 5th, 2005 at 12:11 amMen are not allowed to be concerned for the most defenseless among us?
What didn’t your daddy love you?
Fish,
Obviously your parents didn’t show you love, or teach you the importance of not being a stupid bigot. Too bad they didn’t believe in abortion!
August 5th, 2005 at 12:13 amJosh - soo complicated in Bushland - oh, and fish, men don’t get a say until (and if) they are informed and invited to give their say - before that happens all sorts of things go on…
August 5th, 2005 at 12:18 amFish,
I know EXACTLY what a 3 month old fetus looks like, but like ALL CONservatives, I’m sure you don’t. The typical image shown for a 3 month old fetus by anti-abortion christian talibanshees is actually a 6 month picture.
Here’s a ~3 month old fetus.
http://www.aboutabortions.com/Fetus11a.jpg
August 5th, 2005 at 12:18 amThere were lots of good scientists that ran the death camps in germany Ryan.
August 5th, 2005 at 12:19 amyes, they told every one that the retarded where better off dead.
and , why.. those jews where a plague after all, the “scientists” said so, they must be right. there scientists know more than we common folk know about what’s right.
Fish: Sadly, I have decided to place you on my “Don’t Clone” List,
August 5th, 2005 at 12:20 amreclusive
Reclusive,
I agree - I personally don’t think any men (myself included) has a right to make this choice for any woman - but I also will defend the right of women to make this choice for themselves! Only ignorance, bigotry and hatred attack women in this way. In the light of science, abortion is 100% of a non issue.
August 5th, 2005 at 12:20 amYes ryan,
August 5th, 2005 at 12:21 amThat is a little human being.
fish has become the bad guy!
August 5th, 2005 at 12:22 am“There were lots of good scientists that ran the death camps in germany Ryan.”
Ironically they ran them for Fascists like you, just like the scientists at the EPA who are willing to lie for you and disregard science.
The reason they ran the death camps was that they were willing to reject their principles of science, not because of them. Ironically they used ‘religion’ to justify these asks - just as you surely would and do when you justify torture and killing of islamic people.
“yes, they told every one that the retarded where better off dead.”
Retarded people like yourself are in fact conscious, albeit not normal. This is a common red herring among CONservatives, on their way to cutting medicaid for people of this sort…
“and , why.. those jews where a plague after all, the “scientistsâ€? said so, they must be right. there scientists know more than we common folk know about what’s right.”
Funny, I remember you saying something similar about liberals. A Fascist fruit like yourself didn’t fall far from the Hitler tree…
August 5th, 2005 at 12:23 amactually, i like all of you guys.
August 5th, 2005 at 12:23 amRyan
August 5th, 2005 at 12:24 amI am willing to bet that you are under 30.
I can tell that your mind has not yet fully developed.
Fish,
And your Hero Hitler was also anti abortion… You’re definitely cut from the same cloth…
August 5th, 2005 at 12:25 amfish - you really must admit conservatives are fascist - i mean even you must see that.
August 5th, 2005 at 12:26 amFish,
I have underwear that’s over 30, but based on your mental development, I’d guess you’re under 14…
August 5th, 2005 at 12:26 amThe earth is getting warmer,
August 5th, 2005 at 12:27 ammust be suv’s
did you know that the sun is also getting warmer
as are the rest of the planets….
hhhmmmm…
Thats nasty
August 5th, 2005 at 12:28 amFish,
I see a fetus - but then I’m a scientist with a rational mind. You’re a retarded child, with a demented sense of righteousness. Get some therapy, your inability to live in reality shows you’re definitely a sick person…
August 5th, 2005 at 12:28 amhey fish did you hear that john robert (supreme court nominee) consulted on a case that helped (assisted, gave comfort to, defined the legal issue on behalf of, etc.) gays in 1996? frothing at mouth?
August 5th, 2005 at 12:28 amLook into it Ryan, dead babes is big business.
August 5th, 2005 at 12:30 amAnyway, doesn’t change the fact that it’s killing your child and I don’ t think that’s right.
well I don’t know anything about that case, but I’m all for supporting people’s rights, even if they happen to live in there mothers.
August 5th, 2005 at 12:34 am“The earth is getting warmer,
must be suv’s
did you know that the sun is also getting warmer
as are the rest of the planets….”
Actually there are many contributing factors to global warming, and why CONservatives never get it. Ambiguity requires a functioning cerebral cortex that its owner is willing to use - you like most CONservatives don’t meet that qualification.
The solar work you refer to by Dr. Bellamy is non-conclusive, and it does not include enough metrics to determine how much of an influence the solar radiation has. They used sun spots to speculate radiance, it’s nonconclusive - but definitely worth investigating. We KNOW global warming is being caused, and as a scientist I only want to know why. I hate SUVs because they’re unsafe on the road, but if they are helping to cause global warming, the responsible thing would be to find a way to make SUVs more efficient, or get rid of them. I know you have trouble with that kind of rational reasoning as you have model for this in your world of fascism - but that’s what one does as scientist - explain things with ration and reason… Maybe when you get out of high school you’ll understand.
August 5th, 2005 at 12:37 amjust …”a fetus” your just playing with semantics.
August 5th, 2005 at 12:38 amthat clearly is a human, not a dog, or a frog,
or anything else.
“Scientist”
I guess that explanes why you are so arrogant.
Sciene of wrongie wrongness.
I just enjoyed watching the host and james digest what just happened. lol
August 5th, 2005 at 12:38 amryan you don’t know anything about anything. Telling women that killing their children is ok is the most anti-women thing you can do, not to mention half of those killed are female, what about their rights ryan? A three month old fetus is still a separate human life, it’s not just “part of the mother” or just “tissue.”
August 5th, 2005 at 12:38 amNow about the topic, it’s funny that when Carville, who if you watched on HBO’s K-Street and did not have nightmares about you were not paying attention, pulls a Bill Orielly you people cream over it. I would love to see Rove, Carville and Dick Morris in a gladiator ring, that would be worth the ticket, LOL. Hell throw in Orielly and Franken as well. I bet you guys really think about Carville about like I think of Rove, he may be a SOB, but he’s our SOB. Bush won’t turn on Rove. It’s called loyalty, and clintoon never had it, not for his wife, his country, or the guy who put him in the White House, he is lower than all above mentioned, and that is saying something.
As for your selling of fetuses, that must be something else you heard on CBN. You’re such a brainwashed idiot!
Neither Planned Parenthood nor its abortion clients actually “sell” the dissected fetal parts to the collection firms. This was made illegal by the NIH Revitalization Act passed by Congress in 1993. That act makes it unlawful “to knowingly acquire, receive, or otherwise transfer any human fetal tissue for valuable consideration if the transfer affects interstate commerce.”
August 5th, 2005 at 12:40 amI do entirely agree with 159. (except the part about me being a fascist)
well said.
now about that Novac…
August 5th, 2005 at 12:41 am“ryan you don’t know anything about anything. Telling women that killing their children is ok ”
But that’s not what I said you lying freak! A human adult is only alive when it has alpha waves, fetuses don’t have that - they aren’t babies. Babies are what you get at 7 months, when the brain waves start and a premature can be born.
You’re such a lying propagandist ahole…
August 5th, 2005 at 12:42 amfish,
Your politics are ENTIRELY fascist.
Fascism is typified by attempts to impose state control over all aspects of life. Many scholars consider fascism to be part of, or in coalition with, extreme right politics.
The term fascism has come to mean any system of government resembling Mussolini’s, that in various combinations:
* exalts the nation, (and in some cases the race, culture, or religion) above the individual, with the state apparatus being supreme.
* stresses loyalty to a single leader.
* uses violence and modern techniques of propaganda and censorship to forcibly suppress political opposition.
* engages in severe economic and social regimentation.
* engages in syndicalist corporatism.
* implements totalitarian systems.
These characteristics all fit you to a tee! You’re so stupid you don’t even know you’re a fascist - how sad is that?
August 5th, 2005 at 12:44 amFasicismBreedsAHoles,
Actually Carville is an AHole, Rove is a lying propagandist traitor. I don’t see them as even playing for the same country…
August 5th, 2005 at 12:45 am“just …â€?a fetusâ€? your just playing with semantics.”
Actually I’m discussing science, you’re playing progandist semantics. A baby is something you cuddle, a fetus is something you dispose of. The first is capable of living and exhibits full human characteristics including a NeoCortex capable of human brain waves. The second is human tissue that ‘might’ turn into a baby and might not.
The fact that you call the second a ‘baby’, is like you calling your sperm ‘your babies’. Just because you misuse the word in a deceitful way, doesn’t make it the truth. That’s indicative of the ‘children’ on the right though - just because they ’say it’s so’, they want people to just accept their ignorance as facts.
“that clearly is a human, not a dog, or a frog,
or anything else.”
That clearly is a human? What would you say if I told you it was in fact a chimpanzee, and that I linked you to a known picture of a chimp just to show you how stupid you are?
““Scientistâ€?
I guess that explanes why you are so arrogant.
Sciene of wrongie wrongness.”
I’m arrogant? Someone who clearly knows nothing about the subject he’s talking about (you) who argues with someone who clearly does, has the balls to call me arrogant? Look up the term ‘projection’, while you’re looking up ‘idiot’.
August 5th, 2005 at 12:50 am“well I don’t know anything about that case, but I’m all for supporting people’s rights”
YOU LIE!!!!!
You support the right of a man to rape a woman and enslave her to carry his FETUS, even though that fetus is NOT A BABY UNTIL AGE 7 MONTHS! You’re such a lying propaganda scumbag!
August 5th, 2005 at 12:52 am“impose state control over all aspects of life.”
August 5th, 2005 at 12:56 amDon’t you want to take the rights away from parents to know that their child is even considering an abortion (a murder) and give those right’s to the state.
the whole dem social agenda is “ENTIRELY fascist.”
the welfare, the social security, the health care.
think Ryan.
“I bet you guys really think about Carville about like I think of Rove, he may be a SOB, but he’s our SOB. Bush won’t turn on Rove. It’s called loyalty, and clintoon never had it, not for his wife, his country, or the guy who put him in the White House, he is lower than all above mentioned, and that is saying something.”
CONservatives always have loyalty to their personal wallets over loyalty to the country. That’s why Halliburton has stolen millions that could have gone to armor protection and medical treatment for troops. You guys are all greedy, sleazy unpatriotic traitors! But then again Fascists didn’t really care about German or Italian citizens either, they were just stupid greedy right wing idiots just like you are!
August 5th, 2005 at 1:00 amIf it’s legal ryan it’s approved of is it not? ryan once again you prove you don’t know what you are talking about, children survive births at 23 weeks gestation now, what are they when they are born if not babies? Good lord you are wacked.
August 5th, 2005 at 1:00 am“”impose state control over all aspects of life.â€?
Don’t you want to take the rights away from parents to know that their child is even considering an abortion (a murder) and give those right’s to the state.
the whole dem social agenda is “ENTIRELY fascist.�
the welfare, the social security, the health care.
think Ryan.”
How funny you would say that. Interestingly enough the Fascists used your arguments to also outlaw abortion - you’re definitely a fascist.
As for welfare, and social security, the fascist believed in providing these through privatization (sound familiar) - they actually considered state run social ’services’ something that shouldn’t be done - sound familiar? And besides, you confuse ‘control’ with ’support’. SS and similar programs aren’t state control, they are state support. State control are restrictions such as limiting gay rights, anti-abortion, and similar fascist programs… You’re definitely a fascist - but in clear and obvious denial. It must be difficult to suddenly realize that you share the same political beliefs as hitler!
And you probably didn’t know this, but Rummie, Rove and the other NeoCons are disciples of Leo Strauss - an open nazi who taught that the only thing wrong with nazi-ism was that it shouldn’t have been anti jewish. He was jewish and a Nazi you see, and had to find some way to reconcile the two - just like I’m sure you will..
August 5th, 2005 at 1:04 amHere you go with the “I’m a scientist” bullony again.
August 5th, 2005 at 1:04 amScientists use to sell everyone heron too, and they were scientists just like you.
They destroyed many a life.
You are the modern day quack selling murder.
a fetus is something you dispose of.-ryan
But we are nazis? Do you have kids? if you have “undies over 30″ or whatever you said you must have kids right? You have seen sonagrams of children? You have felt them move and kick? Talked to them in utero? What do you really know about pregnacy or mothers or babies but what you read on a pro-abortion website?
August 5th, 2005 at 1:06 am“If it’s legal ryan it’s approved of is it not? ryan once again you prove you don’t know what you are talking about, children survive births at 23 weeks gestation now, what are they when they are born if not babies? Good lord you are wacked.”
Actually a fetus that’s 23 weeks will not survive without life support (think Terri Schiavo), and it must be fed on an IV and kept alive on life support because it’s brain isn’t developed enough to actually feed or even breathe on its own. Someday they’ll probably have fetal chambers that won’t require a real womb at all - but this is just another example of how stupid rubes shouldn’t talk about science.
A 23 week old baby in fact WILL NOT SURVIVE BIRTH ON ITS OWN - it isn’t a baby yet! It requires an artificial system, and in fact premature babies this age often have longterm health problems because of the artificial means necessary to keep them alive.
But thanks for continuing to bring out all of the lame and ill informed arguments to show everyone on this thread exactly HOW STUPID this entire argument is!
August 5th, 2005 at 1:08 amPatient 15 arrived 16 weeks early. She struggled to breathe through underdeveloped lungs. The gentlest touch could rub her paper-thin skin right off. Her mother’s rings could fit over her delicate legs. Her family heard estimates that she had only about a tablespoon of blood coursing through her veins.
Even with her tiny, pastel-striped knit cap on and a maze of tubes assisting her bodily functions, she weighed only 13 ounces.
Two months after her arrival at University of Iowa Hospitals and Clinics, with the equipment assisting her breathing removed, her parents finally heard her first triumphant cry.
Five years later Anna Marie Michelsen is a tall and slender prekindergartener, playing T-ball and flipping around in gymnastics. You’d never know her survival was one for the records.
http://www.uiowa.edu/ ~fyi/ issues2003_v41/ 12052003/ small.html
Or you could have just sucked her brains out and disposed of her tiny corpse, she wasn’t a baby, she wasn’t a human, ryan the scientist said so, and hes not a facist, his free dictionary said so. Sicko.
August 5th, 2005 at 1:11 amHey Ryan,
August 5th, 2005 at 1:13 amSure am glad you are on our side. You go boy!!!
“Here you go with the “I’m a scientistâ€? bullony again.
Scientists use to sell everyone heron too, and they were scientists just like you.
They destroyed many a life.
You are the modern day quack selling murder.”
I assume you mean heroin? Actually you’re confusing pharmacists with scientists - but to someone with the education of a junior high brat I’m not surprised.
This is the best you can do, reject science? Without scientist you’d be picking your teeth with a straw, and not typing on that computer you so obviously are undereducated to use! Science is truth, people do unethical things - but it’s because of their own bigotry and religious or personal flaws - it’s not because of the science! Science is about facts, and the pursuit of science is finding, proving and having people peer review and proof that science. It’s about TRUTH - something it’s clear you don’t understand, and probably have little or no experience with.
You confuse ‘the scientist’ with what science is. Since it’s clear that the biggest issue with the right is that you have NO CLUE what the meaning of the words you use are:
Science - definition:
Science is knowledge or a system of knowledge covering general truths or the operation of general laws especially as obtained and tested through the scientific method.
Scientific knowledge relies heavily upon forms of logic.
It’s clear you don’t know what logic is either, please go look that up while you figure out that you’re the stupidest redneck on this site!
August 5th, 2005 at 1:13 amTell Anna’s mom she wasn’t a baby. So if you need help you are not human? So now you must survive on your own, so if a child is born needing a ventilator or IV, it’s not a bay, it’s to be disposed of. My childs 4 months old and still needs her parents to survive, is it to late to legally abort her in your twisted mind? What if she was brain damaged? Youre brain damaged and I don&