Breaking: Novak Explodes Live on CNN
Breaking: Novak Explodes Live on CNN
Just now on CNN’s Inside Politics, in the midst of a ho-hum discussion about Katherine Harris’ Senate race:
Novak: Just let me finish what I’m going to say, James, please. I know you hate to hear me —
Carville: He’s got to show these right-wingers that he’s got a back bone, ya know? Wall Street Journal editorial page is watching. You show ‘em you’re tough…
Novak: You know I think that’s bullshit. And I hate that. Just let it go.
Novak removes his microphone and walks off the set.
Update I: Novak Was About to Be Asked About Leak The Inside Politics host ended the Carville/Novak segment saying, “Thanks, James Carville. And I’m sorry as well that Bob Novak left the set a little early. I had told him in advance that we were going to ask about the CIA leak case, he was not here for me to be able to ask him about that. Hopefully, we’ll be able to ask him about that in the future.”
Update II: Media Matters has the video.
Update III: Flashback to the first time Ed Henry challenged Novak to talk about the Plame leak, on June 29. Novak wasn’t very happy then, either:
HENRY: Do you understand why in general there’s frustration among fellow journalist after 41 years of distinguished work, where you’ve always pushed and been a fierce advocate of the public’s right to know, you’re not letting the public know about such a critical case, and two people may go to jail.
NOVAK: Well, they are not going to jail because of me. Whether I answer your questions or not, it has nothing to do with that. That’s very ridiculous to think that I am the cause of their going to jail. I don’t think they should be going to jail.
HENRY: Yes. But I didn’t say you were the cause. But there are some people…
NOVAK: Yes, you do did.
HENRY: No, but some people feel if you would come forward with the information that you have, that maybe they would not go to jail.
NOVAK: But you don’t know — Ed, you don’t know anything about the case. And those people who say that don’t know anything about the case. And unfortunately, as somebody who likes to write, I’d like to say a lot about the case, but because of my attorney’s advice I can’t. But I will. And there might be some surprising things.
HENRY: We’ll all be waiting to hear that story finally told, Bob.
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who was carville talking about?
August 4th, 2005 at 5:04 pmDon’t let the door hit you on the way out, Bob.
Aww screw it, let it hit you hard.
August 4th, 2005 at 5:05 pmWhat a dipshit. Novak can dish it out easy enough when he has a liberal on the carpet.
August 4th, 2005 at 5:06 pmit’s hard work being a traitor……….lots a stress.
You guys just don’t understand.
August 4th, 2005 at 5:11 pmNovak should be in jail for what he did. I’m glad he blew his cool on-air.
August 4th, 2005 at 5:14 pmJust like all the NeoCons? Remember when O’Lielly walked off the set when Terri Gross was interviewing him? Same sort of thing… they can dish it out, but like most Chickenhawks, can’t take the heat of incoming rounds.
August 4th, 2005 at 5:18 pmis that type of language allowed? poor Bob can’t take the heat…
August 4th, 2005 at 5:19 pmLike all CONservatives – they check out when confronted directly. Their brain is so pre-conditioned to live in their fantasy – that a direct confrontation which challenges these lies is met with either their full shutdown or them taking their ball and going home.
The ‘truth’ so undermines their delusion – that they can’t integrate it, and the psychosis they seem to almost all universally suffer from REQUIRES they shut out that truth. I attribute this to child abuse. So many CONservatives I’ve met as ‘friends’, all seem to have very dysfunctional relationships with an overly dominant father that restricts their emotional and psychological development. They develop some wierd hatred of women – and turn into absolute freaks!
August 4th, 2005 at 5:20 pmIt is about time.
August 4th, 2005 at 5:20 pmBOOO HOO ……….Tee HEE HEE HEE
August 4th, 2005 at 5:23 pmNovak belongs in a cell at Guantanamo Bay.
August 4th, 2005 at 5:28 pmI haven’t looked but I have no doubts that the righty blogs are now saying what a he man he was in the face of a scurrilous liberal like Carville.
Ya know, if a democrat had done any of this while Clinton was President, he’d have been burned at Ken Starr’s which-hunt stake by now (and proclaimed evil).
See this? You don’t? It’s the worlds smallest violin playin’ for ya Bob….
August 4th, 2005 at 5:29 pmduh-oh! witch, not which.
August 4th, 2005 at 5:30 pmI really think we should all start calling CNN and demanding an on air apology for Novak’s language!! His demeanor & language were far uglier than whats-her-faces boob.
August 4th, 2005 at 5:30 pmI can honestly tell CNN that my children were alarmed by his language. (that my children are furry & were alarmed by my whooping at his language, they don’t need to know)
He did it on purpose so not to have to talke about the leak.
I sure hope all the conservative Christians watching flip out just as much as they did with the Superbowl Show. I doubt they will but it would be nice to see them hold their convictions when a fellow conservative behaves as poorly as Novak did. Will CNN have to pay for his foul language? Maybe a lifetime ban from CNN is in order. Stay Tuned
August 4th, 2005 at 5:31 pmwonder if we can get the FCC to issue a fine?
August 4th, 2005 at 5:32 pmDid you see the Arlen Specter op-ed on Novak 8/4 ?
August 4th, 2005 at 5:33 pmwonder how CNN will reward Bob’s temper-tantrum.
August 4th, 2005 at 5:35 pmnovak is suppose to be a professional journalist (and yes, I just choked on that comment). journalist go after every little bit of scandel – it appears that journalist are the ones that are the ones who are very thin skinned.
All it takes for a fine is 12 people to complain. I’ll be number one, anybody else wanna join in?
August 4th, 2005 at 5:35 pmI was watching when he he flipped. It was the funniest thing I’ve seen in a while. I’m wondering if I should complain to the FCC. I would’nt in any other case.
August 4th, 2005 at 5:36 pmDamn, at first I though he had literally exploded.
August 4th, 2005 at 5:40 pmIf Novak was fined I would say we should complain.
otherwise who cares. john stewart has said worse on his show, and they didn’t bleep it out.
August 4th, 2005 at 5:41 pmis that type of language allowed? – if you’re a R, yes. Like when Britt Hume said “balls” to Juan Williams on FNews Sunday.
IOKIYAR.
August 4th, 2005 at 5:42 pmIt was “Sit”. His dentures were a jinglin’ and a janglin’.
August 4th, 2005 at 5:45 pmI already called.
August 4th, 2005 at 5:45 pmIt was fun!! I got to play outraged Conservative mom to 4… he he
CNN is on cable. It’s not regulated by the FCC.
Still, I feel pretty certain that Novakula just violated CNN policy.
August 4th, 2005 at 5:47 pmOMG. What a grand day. I love live TV. That said, it would seem it was more like Bob changed his mind about being questioned in the Plame/Wilson matter. Albeit a dramtic ploy but a ploy all the same.
August 4th, 2005 at 5:47 pmthe FCC should not have to wait for complaints – they go ahead and should investigate and issue a fine. but then, the FCC is run by bush’s boys so it’ll be another slap on the wrist and walk for novak.
August 4th, 2005 at 5:47 pmReality bites and this time it bit the treasonous Robert Novak in his fat, sagging ass.
Run along bastard and medicate yourself at the Palms.
. . .
August 4th, 2005 at 5:52 pmThe questioner, Ed Henry, had questioned Novak pretty hard a few weeks ago and Novak hadn’t been on this portion of the show since then. He just couldn’t take the heat apparently. Carville’s comment was no different than he usually is. Bob’s getting old and probably can’t sleep at night knowing Judith Miller sits in jail (where he should be instead).
When was the last time a Dem cussed/walked off one of these hot sessions on the air?
August 4th, 2005 at 5:52 pmNext breaking story: CNN finally gets a ratings showing that outdoes recent liberal election results (i.e. losers) thanks to Novak….
August 4th, 2005 at 5:55 pmI’m sure it was just a “language mishap.”
August 4th, 2005 at 5:59 pmBillie Jo,
Both Novak AND Judy deserve to be in jail. Judy’s far from innocent.
August 4th, 2005 at 6:00 pmThanks!
Cross-linked at http://www.boomantribune.com
August 4th, 2005 at 6:00 pmI agree novak should apologize for his language – CNN should insist on this, but my guess is that if novak actually did apologize he would sned it in writing cause he wouldn’t have the guts to do it facing a camera.
August 4th, 2005 at 6:00 pmCarville: He’s got to show these right-wingers that he’s got a back bone, ya know?
This is not quite right; I think it was actually, “You’ve got to show these right-wingers that you’ve got a back bone. . .” which makes a bit more sense out of the situation:
1. Carville starts talking over Novak.
2. Novak says, “Let me finish what I’m gonna say. . .”
3. Carville keeps talking, saying that he (Carville) has to stand up to rightwingers (Novak).
4. Novak says that’s bullshit and walks out.
It’s as if Novak had never been on a political talk show before. It seemed to me that he was upset about the etiquette of the situation. Bizarre.
August 4th, 2005 at 6:01 pmI am glad to see someone stand up to a person who can’t stop listening to himself…it is a wonder that more people don’t just walk off of some of these news programs. Good job Bob Novak
August 4th, 2005 at 6:02 pmIt’s Novaks’ pre-interpretive play of the Iraq pullout!
August 4th, 2005 at 6:20 pmPlease, Novak has dealt out and been on the recieving end of far worse than this. This was a bizarre, unprofessional scene on Novak’s part. I can’t wait to see what Jon Stewart does with this on the Daily Show.
August 4th, 2005 at 6:21 pm[...] Think Progress has more here. [...]
August 4th, 2005 at 6:22 pm#37,
Are you defending Novak?
August 4th, 2005 at 6:23 pmNovak has broken down the 4th wall of the political shill. Bravo.
August 4th, 2005 at 6:30 pm“It’s as if Novak had never been on a political talk show before. ”
He hasn’t. Most media allows right wing hosts to shut off the camera and microphone of anyone who says something truly confrontational to their right wing buddies. OLeilly and HandJob do that all of the time. Novak is just not used to having his head handed to him, and showed what a bunch of wussies the right wingers all are. He just demonstrated another example of the bully principle. Dems need to take a lesson in this – they’re all really wimps trying to overcomponsate and they can’t handle truly direct confrontation!
August 4th, 2005 at 6:39 pmToday’s Bob Novak-CNN detonation is just a symptom of the increasing pressure. The CIA-Valerie Plame Leak story is DIRECTLY TIED to the ongoing Pentagon spy story. The common factor is named “Michael Ledeen” – Google that using the news setting, you’ll see that Ledeen is behind a LOT of the pressure that Novak is feeling. It’s all coming to a head. The count-down to the end of the Bush White House has officially begun.
I’m also betting that another HUGE story is about to break, probably a high government official being hospitalized. Maybe a terrorist attack in Israel.
August 4th, 2005 at 6:42 pmYou lib’s are such sore losers. Don’t look now but you party is a cult of dope addicts, ulgy people and fools… keep it up!
August 4th, 2005 at 6:47 pmNovack didn’t crack up, he rigged the whole performance. He knew Carville would say something he could take offense at and he would use that to walk off the set. Look at his face, he was releived, not angry.
August 4th, 2005 at 6:51 pmMaybe he is angling to be let out of his contract for the fortress-like protection of a FOX NEWS job.
August 4th, 2005 at 6:52 pm#45 – ulgy people? Is that near Ukraine?
August 4th, 2005 at 6:53 pmjim,
Bahahaha, how funny you are! Coming from someone who voted for a coke head alcoholic that looks like howdie doodie – bahaha…
Considering that the majority of actors, models and other beautiful people are democrats – I’d say your little delusion must be really important to your mental stability for you to cling to it in the absolute onslaught of evidence that shows you are a stupid, fat ugly rube for a redneck state…
August 4th, 2005 at 6:53 pmVery Andy Kaufmanesque.
August 4th, 2005 at 6:54 pmSimon,
If Novak is shown to have lied to his editors about the Plame incident – he might need a new job… I bet the pressure is heating up on him!
August 4th, 2005 at 6:54 pmLanguage malfunctions seem rampant in this Administration. Oh, you mean Nofacts isn’t part of this Administration? Oh of course not! *nudge* *nudge* *wink* *wink*!
August 4th, 2005 at 6:55 pm#45
Drug addicts? Like Rush Limbaush? Like Jeb Bush’s daughter? Sore losers? Who are we talking about who just walked off a tv set–Bob Novak, noted “liberal”?
David Brock was right when he talked about how YOU guys are given to projection, 24/7!
(For all I know, you are even an “ulgy” person)
August 4th, 2005 at 6:57 pmHey ryan,
Oh yes, I forgot about that the “actors, and models” the big clique of dope head delusionals that you morons worship. Yes, I’d put my life an the future of my country in there hands any day….what a great base for a political party…actors, and models… Dope.
August 4th, 2005 at 7:05 pm#45 – people that get cheated – might be just a tad “sore”. Sore losers are the repugs in the
Washington state elections.
Make certain elections are fair an honest – then if the taliban right wing wins – then I will stfu, until then – you jim can stfu.
Novak should be in jail ALONG with Judith.
August 4th, 2005 at 7:05 pmAh, when the going gets tough, the ‘tough’ get going –right out the door.
I saw Bag-eyed Bob giving some speech on C-SPAN to young conservatives; he looked shaky and even more like a resurrected corpse than usual. I swear, he was rolling his eyes like an elephant getting a fire hose enema.
It could be that his lawyer has informed him he’s being indicted by Pat Fitzgerald for perjury, obstruction of justice and — possibly — even treason under the Espionage Act of 1917. How would that look on Mr. Patriotic Conservative’s All-American resume?
August 4th, 2005 at 7:06 pmMichael Ledeen is Karl Rove’s international affairs advisor, a close friend of John Bolton, Ledeen was formerly a member of Bush’s Defence Policy Advisory council, he was a “Project for a New American Century” advocate and close friend of some Italian fascist spies *recently arrested in Italy*. He’s also a friend and colleague of Lawrence Franklin, who was *indicted in the Federal courts* TODAY (again!) Ledeen is widely believed to be the man who ACTUALLY FORGED the “Niger Yellow-Cake” document that started the CIA-Valerie Plame investigation – He also wrote a book (back in the 70’s) about the glories and the righteousness of a new concept called “World Fascism”.
The fascists and the Nazis aren’t a controversial, rhetorical IMAGINARY LINK, thy’re REALLY LINKED.
We the People didn’t make that link, the Bush administration did – whenever they decided to HIRE Michael Ledeen.
The countdown continues…
…tic, tic, tic, tic, tic…
August 4th, 2005 at 7:07 pm“Oh yes, I forgot about that the “actors, and modelsâ€? the big clique of dope head delusionals that you morons worship.”
Delusional morons? We don’t worship you! As for dope heads – I noticed you had no response to the fact that you continue to vote for one. Why do you hate american so much?
” Yes, I’d put my life an the future of my country in there hands any day….what a great base for a political party…actors, and models… Dope.”
Hmmm…. Yet your future IS in the hand of coke head alcoholic – keep drinking the koolaid rube!
August 4th, 2005 at 7:16 pmThe transcript is available here
August 4th, 2005 at 7:17 pmI’m still laughing! I wonder if he’s got a padded green room?
August 4th, 2005 at 7:19 pmjim w/head in the lou,
What does this story have to do with Hollywood celebrities? Go back to huffin’ paint. Its the only excuse for your idiocy.
August 4th, 2005 at 7:19 pmBob is the terry schiavo of pundits, pull his plug, long overdue.
August 4th, 2005 at 7:24 pm[...] Source [...]
August 4th, 2005 at 7:28 pmWell, god bless you. I wish the best for you. I really don’t belive that you think Old W is a alcho coker. that’s just retoric.
August 4th, 2005 at 7:30 pmTime for me to go to the zendo and have a little sit.
good luck.
skid mark 61,
August 4th, 2005 at 7:33 pmsee #45, 49, 54
also, get a hair cut you bum.
#64 actually W has acknowledged being an Alchoholic, and his adventures with Coke are legend. He may/may not be doing it anymore – though the pretzel incident makes one wonder. His apparent inability to speak the english language in a coherent manner maybe do to the partying he did in the past. Alcholol gives you a buzz by killing brain cells.
August 4th, 2005 at 7:34 pmNovak is not longer respected and his career is finished. But he’s right Rove, Libby and Bush will not get fired. Bush will give an exective order for himself and friends. We have the new US that has a dictator and until the Americans stand up he will rule.
August 4th, 2005 at 7:35 pmThe Unified Field Theory of Rampant GOP Corruption:
No matter HOW good your juggling skills are, it’s just IMPOSSIBLE to keep THIS many scandals aloft all at once!
CIA-Valerie Plame Leak Investigation
The Pentagon Spy Scandal
Robert Novak/Karl Rove’s Leaking History
(got Rove FIRED from the Bush 41 campaign!)
John Bolton’s Secret Intelligence Requests
Scandals of the Bush administration’s Archivist
The Lawrence Franklin Indictments
The “Nigerian Yellow-Cake” Forgery
The Downing Street Memo
Several of the 9-11 Hi-Jackers Showing-Up ALIVE – doing TV interviews for BBC reporters
…and sadly, what Greg Palast calls:
“The Silence of the Media Lambs”
It’s all linked together thru Ledeen.
August 4th, 2005 at 7:36 pmRegarding #8 above isn’t it the same reason that Bush’s public appearances are all scripted and the audience is hand picked Repuglicans…so he won’t have to think off the script…Birds of a feather, Bush and Nofacts, O’Lielly and Hannity and of course Limberger.
August 4th, 2005 at 7:42 pm9-11 hi-jackers alive ???
August 4th, 2005 at 7:42 pmHaven’t heard that one.
Jim in St. Lou:
“Oh yes, I forgot about that the “actors, and models� the big clique of dope head delusionals that you morons worship.�
uh-huh, Like Raygun? Like Arnold?
August 4th, 2005 at 7:44 pm9-11 Hijackers Alive on BBC
Link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.stm
August 4th, 2005 at 7:45 pm#38
August 4th, 2005 at 7:49 pmGenius!
Unveiler, thanks for the link.
August 4th, 2005 at 7:50 pmUnbelivable.
Things just keep getting weirder by the day.
Bob rocks, Carville is a fairy.
August 4th, 2005 at 7:51 pm#45 Ugliest people I ever seen in St.Louis
August 4th, 2005 at 7:53 pmI think james C is a big old sexy man!!!
August 4th, 2005 at 7:53 pm#12 World’s smallest violin — I love it!! It’s perfect.
August 4th, 2005 at 7:53 pmHas anyone here ever tried typing “www.cokedealer.com” into their address bar and then hitting the “Enter” key? …just wonderin’.
=* )
All things being equal, the simplest, most obvious answer is usually the right answer. Whatever is left, after you rule-out all the other possibilities thru the process of elimination, no matter how improbable, is also generally the truth.
..and “*The Might Wurlitzer*” continues to play.
(Google it!)
Bella, Ciao’;
August 4th, 2005 at 7:55 pm– Genoa Fascista -
#50
August 4th, 2005 at 7:56 pmGenius!
…you’re welcome, Keith H.!
Have a nice WELL-INFORMED day, Good People!
August 4th, 2005 at 7:58 pmCNN just suspended Novak! First they cancel crossfire, then they suspend Novak – is it possible CNN is waking up from the ether that is the CONservative insanity?
August 4th, 2005 at 8:09 pmPlaid,
August 4th, 2005 at 8:19 pmThanks for connecting the dots for everyone. I heard last week about a connection between Rove/Bolton and the faking of the Niger-Uranium documents in the first place, but I hadn’t put it all together.
I am crossing my fingers that this all explodes in their faces. ASAP.
#54
August 4th, 2005 at 8:23 pmYou guys ridicule any Hollywood type who is not of your ilk — except for the ones you prefer like Ron Silver, Bruce Willis, Robert Duvall, Tommy Lee Jones, and of course Ah-nold and the rest.
You just don’t see your own hypocrisy. Frankly I would choose Paul Newman who donates all his food products profits to sick children over any one of your macho-chickenhawks-righties.
Novak is toast! One common thread among all these giant egos is that they never quit until they make fools of themselves. I really think Novak is suffering under the stress of his lies, his federal trouble, and his disintegrating support among hs peers, and most importantly, he can see that the W.H. gang will leave him hanging out to dry in the sun.
August 4th, 2005 at 8:28 pmSun — that destroys vampires doesn’t it?
When I get into a debate with a repug, I use their own tactics on them..
Don’t answer their questions. Spin them. Keep asking questions to make them blow up. Like:
How do you feel about Hitler? How about gay marriage? Treason? Do you like supporting the most hated man in the universe? Do you like the fact that the shrubs were nazi supporters, both financially and physically? Since you love shrubya so much, I suppose you think treason is OK.
They blow up and it is just sooooooo fun!
August 4th, 2005 at 8:29 pm[...] Note: I think it was all a ploy to get his undead visage on TV and yet scamper away before having to talk about Plamegate: Thanks, James Carville. And I’m sorry as well that Bob Novak left the set a little early. I had told him in advance that we were going to ask about the CIA leak case, he was not here for me to be able to ask him about that. Hopefully, we’ll be able to ask him about that in the future. [...]
August 4th, 2005 at 8:30 pmJim in the lou,
You need to keep better tabs on me, my haircut was yesterday. Thanks for caring though.
August 4th, 2005 at 8:31 pmOne Fish, Two Fish,
Red Fish, Bush-Fish?
http://www.bushfish.org/
August 4th, 2005 at 8:36 pmNovak is living proof that Rethuglicans can’t take it — they can only dish it out. No accountability. No responsibility.
August 4th, 2005 at 8:40 pmNote Katherine Harris — she can’t even take responsibility for her own eye shadow and mascara!
Well I just saw it. It’s pretty surreal how they keep on talking without missing a beat.
August 4th, 2005 at 8:44 pmIt was a thing of beauty, a wonderful thing to watch. A good Catholic boy like Bob swearing and losing his temper than acting like a spoiled child who can’t have his own way. Nothing against Catholics, I’ve been one all my life. What ever happened to “turning the other cheek” Bob?
August 4th, 2005 at 8:48 pmMy son has been a bad boy.
August 4th, 2005 at 8:51 pmGood advice #86 – they can’t take the heat fer shore/
August 4th, 2005 at 8:54 pmI think Novak has dementia – he forgets his own lies so easily anymore that he contradicts himself almost weekly… Sad little maggot..
August 4th, 2005 at 8:56 pmYou kids are so funny….Won any elections that matter lately? Feh.
August 4th, 2005 at 9:05 pm#96
August 4th, 2005 at 9:08 pmHey, Rush — your drug store’s calling.
Duck,
Dems won both the last 2 presidential elections according to the same techniques that the Pentagon used to determine the election in the Ukraine was rigged…
Guess you didn’t see the several links during the last few days – or the new harpers article which basically confirms that it’s a statistical impossiblity that CONservatives actually won the last election. It certainly explains why Bush has a 40 some percent approval rating. More americans voted against him than for him, but criminals like you prefer to steal elections than actually provide a reasonable argument and win them fairly. It’s typical of fascism – you guys are always more concerned about having your way, than you are having democracy… The fight or flight lizard brain has such a hold over you – too sad for you and the rest of us that have to expose your criminality.
August 4th, 2005 at 9:14 pm#96
August 4th, 2005 at 9:16 pmthank Diebold! brave sh*t head (!)
I have no doubt that this is a pre-emptive “break-up” between CNN and Novak….CNN is the same as Time…Neither wants thier name or employee’s mentioned in the same paragraph with Judith Miller and the NYT….I have to admit it was a little more creative than “to spend time with my family”
August 4th, 2005 at 9:21 pmBye, bye Novak!!! (it’s about time your reptilian face went off the air and believe me, we won’t be missing it!!!!!!!!!)
Carville did a great job and we love him. He’s one of the best the dems have along with Paul B and Bob B. You go boys!!!!!!!!! (and yes # 77 James is sexy and cute)
August 4th, 2005 at 9:26 pmBob Novak is an American Icon. Good work Bob, tell Carville to kiss your ass.
August 4th, 2005 at 9:32 pmIf he is not going to jail, send Novak over to Fox News where he belongs.
August 4th, 2005 at 9:49 pmfraudulent,
Actually Triad and Diebold machines were both involved. In the 10 states that use standard paper trail voting machines the exit polls never deviated more than 1% from the exit polls. There’s a simple table that shows exactly how much fraud there was in the 2004 election.
Number of states
that deviated by 2000 2004
1% or less 39 9
2% or less 3 20
3% or less 2 8
over 3% 6 16
This is of course the number of states that deviate from exit polling numbers. This indicates that at least 6 states had already succumbed to tampering in 2000, as this 3% threshold is generally excepted as a guarantee of tampering – whereas 16 states demostrated this level of tampering in 2004. When we consider the increase in new tamper prone electronic machines in the more recent election – it’s clear this is an increasing trend.
When you consider that the 10 states that have only older machines were all within ~1% (One state was almost exactly 1% but slightly over it) of deviation samplewise – then it’s clear that only those 10 states are now safe for democratic voting. All other states are to some degree infested with CONservative vote rigging. The gauntlet has been thrown, and CONservative fascists have shown they are capable and willing of thwarting the democracy. If efforts are not made to make all 50 states tamper proof for the next election – no amount of public opinion or voting will change the outcome!
August 4th, 2005 at 10:06 pmRyan,
too bad we couldn’t all refuse to use the electronic voting machines and insist on using a paper ballot instead. Make our vote and drop it in a little box with our name and tel or address for verification reasons. If that was possible, it would really screw up their little scam.
August 4th, 2005 at 10:18 pmUnveiler & Keith H:
August 4th, 2005 at 10:25 pmNote that the BBC story is from 9/23/01.
Don’t believe everything you think.
August 4th, 2005 at 10:25 pmThe only rigging that took place was the exit polling data.
This is goin’ make a great “Great Moments in Punditry as Read by Children” on The Daily Show!
August 4th, 2005 at 10:34 pmBartkid – That would be hilarious. I can’t wait to see how Stewart handles this.
August 4th, 2005 at 10:41 pmWhatever fish.
August 4th, 2005 at 10:51 pmfish,
That’s an interesting way for the right wing to spin their vote rigging. Too bad international monitors found the same results that their american counterparts did! Didn’t see that coming didn’t you? CONservatives always come so ILL PREPARED! This sure explains all of those failing grades for Bush that had to get converted to ‘gentlemen Cs’…
August 4th, 2005 at 11:03 pmJust saw the clip. Novak doesn’t have it in him to react spontaneously like a normal human being. That seeemed calculated, like everything else that bunch does. Who knows maybe his legal team advised him to walk off to any avoid any possible verbal mistakes.
August 4th, 2005 at 11:09 pmAnybody ever notice when CONservatives are confronted with something the only way they know how to respond is to insult, belittle, bully or just outright ignore the subject?
Case in point with the few comments by rethuglicans in this blog.
Perfect example: When Dickhead Cheney was asked about Dean’s comment about the Christian right being white, he just made some comment to the effect that nobody but Howard’s mother likes him.
That’s the way they handle everything. When they can’t come up with an intelligent response – which is seldom – they resort to child like attacks – name calling, ridicule etc.
I am a Christian but I fear the Christian right. They are the most unforgiving, intolerant and unreasonable people I have ever met.
I will never forgive the right wing for killing Frank Zappa. Yes, they feared his activism and gave him prostate cancer.
August 4th, 2005 at 11:10 pmI just saw that video, and that strikes me as nothing surprising. Just your everyday, typical conservative who couldn’t take the cover up, so he just did what Bush has been doing throughout his presidency, not confronting it. They work under the ideology that if they ignore the facts and the issues they’ll just go away, and they won’t have to worry about them. To me (and this especially pertains to Bush) if you don’t have anything to hide, then why not talk about it? Why keep avoiding the facts? Why keep ignoring everything if you don’t have anything to be ashamed of? The answer should be self evident to anyone with a brain, so I’ll let the conservative nut jobs out there rack their brain to try to figure it out.
August 4th, 2005 at 11:17 pmRPM,
I have no problems calling people names that matter, the problem is that CONservative are guilty of utter hypocrisy on this subject. They talk a good ‘values’ game, but they only apply those standards to other. It’s typical CONservativism – do as I say, and I’ll do whatever i want…
August 4th, 2005 at 11:18 pmJosh,
But you’ve nailed the issue! ’shame’ is exactly what dictates CONservatism. Because they never develop a healthy relationship with their father, they’re ashamed that they don’t measure up as men. That’s why they try to ‘prove’ they’re manly by subjegating women (calling them feminazis, denying them abortion rights, attacking gay people, etc.). Out of their shame for their own inadequacy they act out and go to attack those they perceive as weaker than them. Because they perceive liberals as ‘permissive’, they are falsely deluded into believing liberal values are a weakness – when in fact the confidence it takes to be accepting of others, and willing to investigate and revisit ones values is a sign of strength and health. But in their twisted psychosis they delude themselves and what they’re doing… It’s really sad to watch! If they weren’t such a$$e$ about it, I’d have a lot more compassion for them.
August 4th, 2005 at 11:26 pm106
The world trade center was bombed on 9/11/01. This information came out after that date.
August 4th, 2005 at 11:29 pmAw, Novak just had a case of the runs.
August 4th, 2005 at 11:45 pmRyan,
The vote rigging fantasy is sleepy. What happens when Billary Rotten Rodham
gets elected Prez., I guess then it will all be on the up and up? The Repubs will have lost there mystical ability to steal elections? You just can’t admit to your selves that most of America thinks you are a bunch of kooks with bad ideas.
As for the international monitors, you think they might have a little bias?
me thinks it could be so. Undermine America at any cost. Don’t forget that there are plenty of governments that would love to see us broken and sadly you drink up most of their poison.
ÂÂ
August 4th, 2005 at 11:52 pmThis doesn’t even come close to Al Franken’s freakouts!!!! That’s what liberals do, isn’t it? Get hysterical, do some name calling (Bush = Nazi), throw some chairs. Cut off debate with below the belt insults. That’s what Carvell did. That’s Lyin Ryan does. Spends a lot of time belittling people who “don’t think like him”. Well, a name calling biggot is what Lyin Ryan might call Limbaugh or some CONservative. Pot meet kettle.
August 4th, 2005 at 11:52 pmYou know what strikes me as even more provacative? The very fact that Bush hired Rove in the first place. That shows his demeanor right there, surrounding himself with the worst people he can possible find. One would think he wouldn’t have hired a man that his father, in 1991, fired for none other than leaking information to who? ROBERT NOVAK! Once a crook always a crook. I just wish the media would do a little journalistic research, and they would find out about that.
August 4th, 2005 at 11:53 pmDon’t you realize all Conservatives are in some stage of Alzheimers? LOL They all go the way of Ronnie Raygun and Charleton Heston – I will pay the day ann coulter wears diapers.
August 4th, 2005 at 11:56 pmscuse emoi – i meant of course i will pay admission to see ann coulter the day she wears diapers – did i mention I am a conservative?
August 4th, 2005 at 11:58 pmSteed,
Wow, poor thing. You defend Limbaugh and Coulter who name call, yet you accuse liberals of this act? Bahaha, how funny!
As for insults, I called you a stupid idiot, and you continue to demonstrate this. So come on, how did I lie? I back up EVERYTHING I say with links, math, statistics and science. You simply say stupid things. Frankly how you rationalize your existence in the face of such an overhwelming challenge to your reality must be a profound task…
August 4th, 2005 at 11:59 pmRyan,
August 5th, 2005 at 12:02 amJust one clarification for you.
a woman’s right to abortion = a womans right to kill her child.
there is big money made off of young urban girls aborting there children.
Groups like planned parenthood make boo koo $ selling these destroyed children to companies to do “science tests”. Thats pretty bad.
fish,
Glad I struck a cord with you. Anytime a CONservative like you disengages their reality, I know it’s their defense mechanism because they’ve found the truth and are just to chicken to admit it…
See your theories are interesting, albeit STUPID as usual. First of all multiple sources came up with the same statistical anomolies, independent of each other. The fact that some of these sources are republican controlled media companies, and even GOVERNMENTAL shows your continuing self willed ignorance.
If hillary wins, it will be because people are so pissed they can’t rig enough votes in the ‘diebold’ regions to overcome it. Considering that all but 10 states now show statistical anomolies that our own pentagon KNOW is fraud, that’s highly unlikely.
As for american disapproval – ALL polling shows the exact opposite. Only 48 percent of americans even had a positive approval rating of bush during the 2004 election. Your delusion that the majority of americans share your ideals is just that – a delusion…
August 5th, 2005 at 12:03 amryan# 119
August 5th, 2005 at 12:04 amFish,
You’re dumber than a rope. A baby is defined as alpha waves, and abortion is on fetuses not baby. The fact that you reject science out of your utter and complete stupidity, just shows how profoundly mentally handicapped you are…
August 5th, 2005 at 12:05 amDear Josh:
August 5th, 2005 at 12:05 amI always thought Rove hired Bush – lets face it, Rove was just too ugly to run – so he found the most stupid yokel he could and hired him to play president.
Delusion indeed.
August 5th, 2005 at 12:06 amAnd, there is nothing more redundant than a bunch of men discussing abortion.
August 5th, 2005 at 12:07 amfish,
Wow, that’s so logical. Planned parenthood is in it for the vast profits of selling babies? That tin foil helmet is burning a hole in what’s left of your brain.
August 5th, 2005 at 12:07 amhave you ever seen a 3 month old baby?
August 5th, 2005 at 12:07 amIf you had mabe the angry little man would pipe down a bit and the human
August 5th, 2005 at 12:09 amwould stand up.
fish,
Terri Schiavo looked just like a woman – that’s emotion, not science. Retarded microbes like you always seem to have trouble distinguishing the difference between emotional irrationality and science.
August 5th, 2005 at 12:09 amFish,
Stop talking to those voices that keep telling you to type stupid things… You’re receiving CBN and the Christian Taliban idiots channel..
August 5th, 2005 at 12:10 amReclusive,
You’re right, I stand corrected, lol. And lets face it, the only way Rove is going to get fired is if Rove tells Bush to fire Rove.
August 5th, 2005 at 12:10 amreclusive,
August 5th, 2005 at 12:11 amMen are not allowed to be concerned for the most defenseless among us?
What didn’t your daddy love you?
Fish,
Obviously your parents didn’t show you love, or teach you the importance of not being a stupid bigot. Too bad they didn’t believe in abortion!
August 5th, 2005 at 12:13 amJosh – soo complicated in Bushland – oh, and fish, men don’t get a say until (and if) they are informed and invited to give their say – before that happens all sorts of things go on…
August 5th, 2005 at 12:18 amFish,
I know EXACTLY what a 3 month old fetus looks like, but like ALL CONservatives, I’m sure you don’t. The typical image shown for a 3 month old fetus by anti-abortion christian talibanshees is actually a 6 month picture.
Here’s a ~3 month old fetus.
http://www.aboutabortions.com/Fetus11a.jpg
August 5th, 2005 at 12:18 amThere were lots of good scientists that ran the death camps in germany Ryan.
August 5th, 2005 at 12:19 amyes, they told every one that the retarded where better off dead.
and , why.. those jews where a plague after all, the “scientists” said so, they must be right. there scientists know more than we common folk know about what’s right.
Fish: Sadly, I have decided to place you on my “Don’t Clone” List,
August 5th, 2005 at 12:20 amreclusive
Reclusive,
I agree – I personally don’t think any men (myself included) has a right to make this choice for any woman – but I also will defend the right of women to make this choice for themselves! Only ignorance, bigotry and hatred attack women in this way. In the light of science, abortion is 100% of a non issue.
August 5th, 2005 at 12:20 amYes ryan,
August 5th, 2005 at 12:21 amThat is a little human being.
fish has become the bad guy!
August 5th, 2005 at 12:22 am“There were lots of good scientists that ran the death camps in germany Ryan.”
Ironically they ran them for Fascists like you, just like the scientists at the EPA who are willing to lie for you and disregard science.
The reason they ran the death camps was that they were willing to reject their principles of science, not because of them. Ironically they used ‘religion’ to justify these asks – just as you surely would and do when you justify torture and killing of islamic people.
“yes, they told every one that the retarded where better off dead.”
Retarded people like yourself are in fact conscious, albeit not normal. This is a common red herring among CONservatives, on their way to cutting medicaid for people of this sort…
“and , why.. those jews where a plague after all, the “scientistsâ€? said so, they must be right. there scientists know more than we common folk know about what’s right.”
Funny, I remember you saying something similar about liberals. A Fascist fruit like yourself didn’t fall far from the Hitler tree…
August 5th, 2005 at 12:23 amactually, i like all of you guys.
August 5th, 2005 at 12:23 amRyan
August 5th, 2005 at 12:24 amI am willing to bet that you are under 30.
I can tell that your mind has not yet fully developed.
Fish,
And your Hero Hitler was also anti abortion… You’re definitely cut from the same cloth…
August 5th, 2005 at 12:25 amfish – you really must admit conservatives are fascist – i mean even you must see that.
August 5th, 2005 at 12:26 amFish,
I have underwear that’s over 30, but based on your mental development, I’d guess you’re under 14…
August 5th, 2005 at 12:26 amThe earth is getting warmer,
August 5th, 2005 at 12:27 ammust be suv’s
did you know that the sun is also getting warmer
as are the rest of the planets….
hhhmmmm…
Thats nasty
August 5th, 2005 at 12:28 amFish,
I see a fetus – but then I’m a scientist with a rational mind. You’re a retarded child, with a demented sense of righteousness. Get some therapy, your inability to live in reality shows you’re definitely a sick person…
August 5th, 2005 at 12:28 amhey fish did you hear that john robert (supreme court nominee) consulted on a case that helped (assisted, gave comfort to, defined the legal issue on behalf of, etc.) gays in 1996? frothing at mouth?
August 5th, 2005 at 12:28 amLook into it Ryan, dead babes is big business.
August 5th, 2005 at 12:30 amAnyway, doesn’t change the fact that it’s killing your child and I don’ t think that’s right.
well I don’t know anything about that case, but I’m all for supporting people’s rights, even if they happen to live in there mothers.
August 5th, 2005 at 12:34 am“The earth is getting warmer,
must be suv’s
did you know that the sun is also getting warmer
as are the rest of the planets….”
Actually there are many contributing factors to global warming, and why CONservatives never get it. Ambiguity requires a functioning cerebral cortex that its owner is willing to use – you like most CONservatives don’t meet that qualification.
The solar work you refer to by Dr. Bellamy is non-conclusive, and it does not include enough metrics to determine how much of an influence the solar radiation has. They used sun spots to speculate radiance, it’s nonconclusive – but definitely worth investigating. We KNOW global warming is being caused, and as a scientist I only want to know why. I hate SUVs because they’re unsafe on the road, but if they are helping to cause global warming, the responsible thing would be to find a way to make SUVs more efficient, or get rid of them. I know you have trouble with that kind of rational reasoning as you have model for this in your world of fascism – but that’s what one does as scientist – explain things with ration and reason… Maybe when you get out of high school you’ll understand.
August 5th, 2005 at 12:37 amjust …”a fetus” your just playing with semantics.
August 5th, 2005 at 12:38 amthat clearly is a human, not a dog, or a frog,
or anything else.
“Scientist”
I guess that explanes why you are so arrogant.
Sciene of wrongie wrongness.
I just enjoyed watching the host and james digest what just happened. lol
August 5th, 2005 at 12:38 amryan you don’t know anything about anything. Telling women that killing their children is ok is the most anti-women thing you can do, not to mention half of those killed are female, what about their rights ryan? A three month old fetus is still a separate human life, it’s not just “part of the mother” or just “tissue.”
August 5th, 2005 at 12:38 amNow about the topic, it’s funny that when Carville, who if you watched on HBO’s K-Street and did not have nightmares about you were not paying attention, pulls a Bill Orielly you people cream over it. I would love to see Rove, Carville and Dick Morris in a gladiator ring, that would be worth the ticket, LOL. Hell throw in Orielly and Franken as well. I bet you guys really think about Carville about like I think of Rove, he may be a SOB, but he’s our SOB. Bush won’t turn on Rove. It’s called loyalty, and clintoon never had it, not for his wife, his country, or the guy who put him in the White House, he is lower than all above mentioned, and that is saying something.
As for your selling of fetuses, that must be something else you heard on CBN. You’re such a brainwashed idiot!
Neither Planned Parenthood nor its abortion clients actually “sell” the dissected fetal parts to the collection firms. This was made illegal by the NIH Revitalization Act passed by Congress in 1993. That act makes it unlawful “to knowingly acquire, receive, or otherwise transfer any human fetal tissue for valuable consideration if the transfer affects interstate commerce.”
August 5th, 2005 at 12:40 amI do entirely agree with 159. (except the part about me being a fascist)
well said.
now about that Novac…
August 5th, 2005 at 12:41 am“ryan you don’t know anything about anything. Telling women that killing their children is ok ”
But that’s not what I said you lying freak! A human adult is only alive when it has alpha waves, fetuses don’t have that – they aren’t babies. Babies are what you get at 7 months, when the brain waves start and a premature can be born.
You’re such a lying propagandist ahole…
August 5th, 2005 at 12:42 amfish,
Your politics are ENTIRELY fascist.
Fascism is typified by attempts to impose state control over all aspects of life. Many scholars consider fascism to be part of, or in coalition with, extreme right politics.
The term fascism has come to mean any system of government resembling Mussolini’s, that in various combinations:
* exalts the nation, (and in some cases the race, culture, or religion) above the individual, with the state apparatus being supreme.
* stresses loyalty to a single leader.
* uses violence and modern techniques of propaganda and censorship to forcibly suppress political opposition.
* engages in severe economic and social regimentation.
* engages in syndicalist corporatism.
* implements totalitarian systems.
These characteristics all fit you to a tee! You’re so stupid you don’t even know you’re a fascist – how sad is that?
August 5th, 2005 at 12:44 amFasicismBreedsAHoles,
Actually Carville is an AHole, Rove is a lying propagandist traitor. I don’t see them as even playing for the same country…
August 5th, 2005 at 12:45 am“just …â€?a fetusâ€? your just playing with semantics.”
Actually I’m discussing science, you’re playing progandist semantics. A baby is something you cuddle, a fetus is something you dispose of. The first is capable of living and exhibits full human characteristics including a NeoCortex capable of human brain waves. The second is human tissue that ‘might’ turn into a baby and might not.
The fact that you call the second a ‘baby’, is like you calling your sperm ‘your babies’. Just because you misuse the word in a deceitful way, doesn’t make it the truth. That’s indicative of the ‘children’ on the right though – just because they ’say it’s so’, they want people to just accept their ignorance as facts.
“that clearly is a human, not a dog, or a frog,
or anything else.”
That clearly is a human? What would you say if I told you it was in fact a chimpanzee, and that I linked you to a known picture of a chimp just to show you how stupid you are?
““Scientistâ€?
I guess that explanes why you are so arrogant.
Sciene of wrongie wrongness.”
I’m arrogant? Someone who clearly knows nothing about the subject he’s talking about (you) who argues with someone who clearly does, has the balls to call me arrogant? Look up the term ‘projection’, while you’re looking up ‘idiot’.
August 5th, 2005 at 12:50 am“well I don’t know anything about that case, but I’m all for supporting people’s rights”
YOU LIE!!!!!
You support the right of a man to rape a woman and enslave her to carry his FETUS, even though that fetus is NOT A BABY UNTIL AGE 7 MONTHS! You’re such a lying propaganda scumbag!
August 5th, 2005 at 12:52 am“impose state control over all aspects of life.”
August 5th, 2005 at 12:56 amDon’t you want to take the rights away from parents to know that their child is even considering an abortion (a murder) and give those right’s to the state.
the whole dem social agenda is “ENTIRELY fascist.”
the welfare, the social security, the health care.
think Ryan.
“I bet you guys really think about Carville about like I think of Rove, he may be a SOB, but he’s our SOB. Bush won’t turn on Rove. It’s called loyalty, and clintoon never had it, not for his wife, his country, or the guy who put him in the White House, he is lower than all above mentioned, and that is saying something.”
CONservatives always have loyalty to their personal wallets over loyalty to the country. That’s why Halliburton has stolen millions that could have gone to armor protection and medical treatment for troops. You guys are all greedy, sleazy unpatriotic traitors! But then again Fascists didn’t really care about German or Italian citizens either, they were just stupid greedy right wing idiots just like you are!
August 5th, 2005 at 1:00 amIf it’s legal ryan it’s approved of is it not? ryan once again you prove you don’t know what you are talking about, children survive births at 23 weeks gestation now, what are they when they are born if not babies? Good lord you are wacked.
August 5th, 2005 at 1:00 am“”impose state control over all aspects of life.â€?
Don’t you want to take the rights away from parents to know that their child is even considering an abortion (a murder) and give those right’s to the state.
the whole dem social agenda is “ENTIRELY fascist.�
the welfare, the social security, the health care.
think Ryan.”
How funny you would say that. Interestingly enough the Fascists used your arguments to also outlaw abortion – you’re definitely a fascist.
As for welfare, and social security, the fascist believed in providing these through privatization (sound familiar) – they actually considered state run social ’services’ something that shouldn’t be done – sound familiar? And besides, you confuse ‘control’ with ’support’. SS and similar programs aren’t state control, they are state support. State control are restrictions such as limiting gay rights, anti-abortion, and similar fascist programs… You’re definitely a fascist – but in clear and obvious denial. It must be difficult to suddenly realize that you share the same political beliefs as hitler!
And you probably didn’t know this, but Rummie, Rove and the other NeoCons are disciples of Leo Strauss – an open nazi who taught that the only thing wrong with nazi-ism was that it shouldn’t have been anti jewish. He was jewish and a Nazi you see, and had to find some way to reconcile the two – just like I’m sure you will..
August 5th, 2005 at 1:04 amHere you go with the “I’m a scientist” bullony again.
August 5th, 2005 at 1:04 amScientists use to sell everyone heron too, and they were scientists just like you.
They destroyed many a life.
You are the modern day quack selling murder.
a fetus is something you dispose of.-ryan
But we are nazis? Do you have kids? if you have “undies over 30″ or whatever you said you must have kids right? You have seen sonagrams of children? You have felt them move and kick? Talked to them in utero? What do you really know about pregnacy or mothers or babies but what you read on a pro-abortion website?
August 5th, 2005 at 1:06 am“If it’s legal ryan it’s approved of is it not? ryan once again you prove you don’t know what you are talking about, children survive births at 23 weeks gestation now, what are they when they are born if not babies? Good lord you are wacked.”
Actually a fetus that’s 23 weeks will not survive without life support (think Terri Schiavo), and it must be fed on an IV and kept alive on life support because it’s brain isn’t developed enough to actually feed or even breathe on its own. Someday they’ll probably have fetal chambers that won’t require a real womb at all – but this is just another example of how stupid rubes shouldn’t talk about science.
A 23 week old baby in fact WILL NOT SURVIVE BIRTH ON ITS OWN – it isn’t a baby yet! It requires an artificial system, and in fact premature babies this age often have longterm health problems because of the artificial means necessary to keep them alive.
But thanks for continuing to bring out all of the lame and ill informed arguments to show everyone on this thread exactly HOW STUPID this entire argument is!
August 5th, 2005 at 1:08 amPatient 15 arrived 16 weeks early. She struggled to breathe through underdeveloped lungs. The gentlest touch could rub her paper-thin skin right off. Her mother’s rings could fit over her delicate legs. Her family heard estimates that she had only about a tablespoon of blood coursing through her veins.
Even with her tiny, pastel-striped knit cap on and a maze of tubes assisting her bodily functions, she weighed only 13 ounces.
Two months after her arrival at University of Iowa Hospitals and Clinics, with the equipment assisting her breathing removed, her parents finally heard her first triumphant cry.
Five years later Anna Marie Michelsen is a tall and slender prekindergartener, playing T-ball and flipping around in gymnastics. You’d never know her survival was one for the records.
http://www.uiowa.edu/~fyi/issues2003_v41/12052003/small.html
Or you could have just sucked her brains out and disposed of her tiny corpse, she wasn’t a baby, she wasn’t a human, ryan the scientist said so, and hes not a facist, his free dictionary said so. Sicko.
August 5th, 2005 at 1:11 amHey Ryan,
August 5th, 2005 at 1:13 amSure am glad you are on our side. You go boy!!!
“Here you go with the “I’m a scientistâ€? bullony again.
Scientists use to sell everyone heron too, and they were scientists just like you.
They destroyed many a life.
You are the modern day quack selling murder.”
I assume you mean heroin? Actually you’re confusing pharmacists with scientists – but to someone with the education of a junior high brat I’m not surprised.
This is the best you can do, reject science? Without scientist you’d be picking your teeth with a straw, and not typing on that computer you so obviously are undereducated to use! Science is truth, people do unethical things – but it’s because of their own bigotry and religious or personal flaws – it’s not because of the science! Science is about facts, and the pursuit of science is finding, proving and having people peer review and proof that science. It’s about TRUTH – something it’s clear you don’t understand, and probably have little or no experience with.
You confuse ‘the scientist’ with what science is. Since it’s clear that the biggest issue with the right is that you have NO CLUE what the meaning of the words you use are:
Science – definition:
Science is knowledge or a system of knowledge covering general truths or the operation of general laws especially as obtained and tested through the scientific method.
Scientific knowledge relies heavily upon forms of logic.
It’s clear you don’t know what logic is either, please go look that up while you figure out that you’re the stupidest redneck on this site!
August 5th, 2005 at 1:13 amTell Anna’s mom she wasn’t a baby. So if you need help you are not human? So now you must survive on your own, so if a child is born needing a ventilator or IV, it’s not a bay, it’s to be disposed of. My childs 4 months old and still needs her parents to survive, is it to late to legally abort her in your twisted mind? What if she was brain damaged? Youre brain damaged and I don’t think it should be ok to kill you, am I wrong to think your sorry ass life should be protected?
August 5th, 2005 at 1:17 amRyan,
August 5th, 2005 at 1:20 amI don’t take you as serious as you do.
I have really enjoyed speaking with you tonight.
I would love to talk in person. I’m sure you could teach me a lot.
I do make the effort to see your side.
I hope the best for all of us.
“Science” I know what science is you knuckle head.
Truth is not absolute, it is relative.
and Absolute truth cannot be spoken.
fake but accurate,
August 5th, 2005 at 1:21 amyou are so taking what Ryan says out of context. Unfortunately you just don’t understand what he is trying to say.
Truth
August 5th, 2005 at 1:22 amFascismBreedsAHole,
Thanks for proving my point. They had to keep her on feeding tubes and an artificial breathing appartus. In otherwords the fetus was on life support until it actually developed into a baby in approximately a month after arriving from the womb.
Now to use your own stupid ‘christian’ anti-abortion logic on it, those doctors played god. If that were a ‘baby’, it would have survived on its own. The fact that god made a fetus arrive that couldn’t breathe or eat, indicates that he didn’t intend on it to live. If you interfered with gods work just like all of the stem cell researchers, then you are playing god! If he had intended that fetus to be a baby, it wouldn’t have been a premature fetus.
Now from a moral perspective, I have no problems with withholding artificial life support on that fetus. I also have no problem with the parents choosing the route they did – it’s their choice. But I see you selected this particular ‘age’ for good reason. If it had been 24 weeks, that’s actually a non-abortion age as per roe v wave. The fact that medical science can keep a 23 week old fetus alive is relatively recent – and as I stated before, they’ll eventually not need a real womb at all. But to call a fetus on life support a baby before it is one is intellectually and morally dishonest – but I expect nothing else from a hypocritical CONservative CON artist propagandist! You are truly one piece of corrupt sick bile!
August 5th, 2005 at 1:22 am“I don’t take you as serious as you do.
I have really enjoyed speaking with you tonight.
I would love to talk in person. I’m sure you could teach me a lot.”
You don’t take abortion right seriously? You’re a sick idiot!
I know I would hate talking to someone as deficient in basic skills of reasoning as yourself. You’re scum!
“I do make the effort to see your side.”
Liar
“I hope the best for all of us.”
Liar! That’s what I hope, you hope for the best for yourself like all greedy selfish CONservatives. Get some therapy!
““Scienceâ€? I know what science is you knuckle head.”
You obviously don’t, or you never once demonstrated it tonight. I think you know what propaganda is, but you’re still to stupid to recognize it for what it actually has done to your weak little pea brain!
“Truth is not absolute, it is relative.
and Absolute truth cannot be spoken.”
Cop out for religious bigots to deny facts, accept dogma, and ignore being truly moral. The truth does not need to be absolute, it only needs to be true. Truth is always in the context of the question – but that to not answer truthfully within that context shows a willful disregard for morality! Something that always seem to be a CONservative weakness… You justify lying like most people justify their extra 5 pounds…
August 5th, 2005 at 1:27 amSo she wasn’t a baby? The doctors don’t agree with you ryan, they call them infants and babies, maybe you should email them I bet they are evil facists right?
Anna is patient 15 on the Tiniest Babies Registry, a web site (www.medicine.uiowa.edu/tiniestbabies) that lists the world’s smallest surviving babies.
Edward Bell, professor of pediatrics and director of the Neonatal Intensive Care Unit (NICU) at Children’s Hospital of Iowa, developed the registry in 1999 to track infants born weighing less than 400 grams (14 ounces).
and from another site:
Caring for a premature infant can be a great challenge. You’ll face many challenges that don’t exist for women who have delivered a full-term baby. Like many parents, you may have tremendous anxiety about your baby’s health and the long-term effects of early birth. You may also feel angry, guilty or depressed.
All of these feelings are normal, and you’ll likely find they change from day to day. Sometimes you may also experience the anxiety and sadness of postpartum depression  the result of sudden changes in your hormones after pregnancy. You may also find it hard to establish milk production if your baby is too small or too sick to breast-feed at first.
In addition, you may need more time to recover physically than you might think. This, combined with your desire to be at the hospital caring for your baby if he or she is in a neonatal intensive care unit, can lead to a great deal of fatigue.
Premature Birth
Overview
Most babies are born about 40 weeks after the first day of their mother’s last menstrual period. But about 10 percent of babies arrive sooner. A baby born more than three weeks before his or her due date is considered premature.
Premature babies have less time to fully develop and mature in the womb. As a result, they’re often at increased risk of medical and developmental problems. One of the biggest problems facing premature infants is underdeveloped lungs.
Your doctor may try to delay your baby’s birth if you go into labor earlier than around 34 weeks into your pregnancy (preterm labor). Even a few extra days in the womb can give your baby’s lungs a chance to become more mature. But sometimes, in spite of every effort, your baby may be born early.
Fortunately, the outlook for premature infants has improved dramatically in recent years. Great advances have been made in the care of premature infants, and even babies born as early as 23 weeks now have a good chance of survival.
So they are not as talented a scientest as you? Better get on that ryan, straighten those nazis out, idiot. The only point I prove is once again, you don’t have a clue what you are talking about.
August 5th, 2005 at 1:31 amO.K.
August 5th, 2005 at 1:32 amenuf for tonight.
I bid you all good night.
Ryan reset your eyes soon friend…
I can teach you something.
Your anger makes your body and mind tense.
This is stress. It’s not good for anyone.
relax your body when you go to bed tonight
breath deep and gently and the mind will follow.
anger is a fools weapon.
and I wish you the sweetest dreams.
Peace. Peace. Peace.
breathe
August 5th, 2005 at 1:33 amgo get em fake but accurate!
August 5th, 2005 at 1:38 am“Tell Anna’s mom she wasn’t a baby. ”
Anna’s mom, your fetus wasn’t a baby until it was 7 months old.
“So if you need help you are not human?”
Actually it’s a fetusm, and it’s not a living human being until 28 weeks. But if they wish to put her (or any zygote) in an artificial womb for 9 months (or what’s left of the gestation) that’s their right as ‘property owners’. Yes fertilized eggs ARE PROPERTY until they’re babies at 28 weeks in this culture – as it should be. You like most delusional creeps frame the debate and language as though liberals want to go forcing people to have abortions – but what you don’t understand is that’s a fascist, not a liberal compulsion – and it’s yours, not ours.
“So now you must survive on your own, so if a child is born needing a ventilator or IV, it’s not a bay, it’s to be disposed of.”
As it has been since the dawn of time. You’re playing god by putting it on unnatural machines of man – which by the way was the sin of Babble – too much technology!
“My childs 4 months old and still needs her parents to survive, is it to late to legally abort her in your twisted mind?”
Actually my fetus is 23 weeks (6 months, not 4 months – obviously math isn’t your strong suit), a 4 month old fetus wouldn’t survive with current artificial gestation life support. The 23 weeks is in the 6th month, and frankly these fetus are rarely aborted – and even if they are, the fetus is not viable yet outside the womb, and it’s brain doesn’t yet exhibit human brain waves.
“What if she was brain damaged? Youre brain damaged and I don’t think it should be ok to kill you, am I wrong to think your sorry ass life should be protected?”
Well I think that’s preferable if I’m a fetus and not a baby. But then again, you seem to always miss the point and ambiguity of the two.
One of the symptoms of insanity is the inability to distinguish ambiguity – and from where I sit you’ve nailed the symptom. Go get a checkup, all your cylinders aren’t firing!
August 5th, 2005 at 1:38 amNot surviving “fetuses” babies ryan, they are children. Women who miscarry even in early pregnancy morn the death. And news to you, women who have abortions morn those babies as well, they also have high rates of suicide, depression, drug and alcohol abuse, many seek therapy but that’s not over a “fetus” it’s over the baby they killed, not that you would care.
August 5th, 2005 at 1:39 amIt’s a life Ryan.
August 5th, 2005 at 1:39 amWrong again ryan: In the
August 5th, 2005 at 1:40 amUnited States Supreme Court’s decision in Roe versus Wade, based on the best
medical data available at the time, the Court adopted 22 weeks as the
human limit of viability.
“go get em fake but accurate!”
And you claim I’m angry? Hehehe. When I want to control my anger you stupid little tweep I’ll go meditate. As for him getting me, he’s got nothing? He doesn’t understand logic, his reasoning is irrational, unsound, and unscientific. I feel like I’m debating a 3rd grader who didn’t read his lesson for the evening? Everything he’s said came from CBN or some freeper creeper uninformed dogmatic site of idiocy and tin hats! You guys really need to do your homework if you’re gonna come here, because frankly you’re all idiots so far!
You have yet to teach me anything that I wasn’t already aware of, or knew as lying propaganda.
I welcome you teaching me something, but where I sit you know nothing, so that’s clearly an impossibility.
August 5th, 2005 at 1:41 amBack to the Novak thing, noticed how actually looks toward Ed Henry when he says “Just let it go”?? He’s obviously referring to his involvement in the Plamegate. It sort of worries me that the guy might be contemptlating suicide. Someone should email him the following phone number: 1-800-SUICIDE. I’m not joking, I hate the man, but wouldn’t want to see the guy harm himself either.
August 5th, 2005 at 1:42 am“It’s a life Ryan.”
So’s my spinach salad, but it’s not a human unless the EEG says my spinach evolved! Geez, how stupid are you?
August 5th, 2005 at 1:42 amthe roe lady regets having an abortion (killing her child).
O.K O.K. I said i was done.
August 5th, 2005 at 1:43 amGoodnight.
idiot she was born 4 months ago, math hell you are so caught up in trying to salvage your point that you lost 5 minutes ago you can’t even read what I write.
August 5th, 2005 at 1:43 am187
August 5th, 2005 at 1:44 amWhat about the doctors ryan, are they not as smart as you? they refer to the premies as infants and babies, are they nazis or what?
August 5th, 2005 at 1:46 am“Wrong again ryan: In the
United States Supreme Court’s decision in Roe versus Wade, based on the best
medical data available at the time, the Court adopted 22 weeks as the
human limit of viability.”
Wow, you actually almost had the truth there. That’s the problem with propagandists like yourself though, you always miss the subtelties. The ruling uses the term viability, and this has always fluctuated.
Here are the actual words from an interview with Sarah Weddington from 2002 (you know she’s the attorney who argued Roe v. Wade – right?)
When Roe v. Wade was decided, viability was 24 to 28 weeks, but usually 28. By now it’s 24 to 28 weeks, but closer to 24. And some people have said that someday you might be able to push it back to 23 or 22 weeks…
As technology is making a viable ‘artificial life support’ strategy for fetus, the religious right are pushing for ever more of these premie ‘experiments’ to rollback the age of abortion to zygote. It’s a clear and obvious strategy of the witless dogmatic retards you call friends.
August 5th, 2005 at 1:48 amyour meditation must be weak if you are giving rise to anger.
August 5th, 2005 at 1:48 am“the roe lady regets having an abortion (killing her child).
O.K O.K. I said i was done.
Goodnight. ”
Actually that’s because she became a brainwashed christian after the relentless hounding you a$$hole$ gave her for decades! I see shades of galileo and the pope personally. If I were her I might say anything public to get you lunatics to be quiet too!
And just because she has a personal regret – that’s her business. I’ve met LOTS of women who regret not having them, I think the last was your momma!
August 5th, 2005 at 1:50 amAnna is patient 15 on the Tiniest Babies Registry
Not largest fetus, Tiniest baby.
Edward Bell, professor of pediatrics and director of the Neonatal Intensive Care Unit (NICU) at Children’s Hospital of Iowa, developed the registry in 1999 to track infants born weighing less than 400 grams (14 ounces).
Tracking infants ryan, not fetuses, what gives, you said they are fetuses, should we believe the doctor or you? HMMMM?
August 5th, 2005 at 1:50 am“your meditation must be weak if you are giving rise to anger.”
I’m smiling as I respond to most of these, you confuse me calling you the idiot you are as anger – I personally find great pleasure in smacking retarded little a$$wipe$ like you around. I’m irish, and I love nothing more than a good scrap with a bully idiot!
You’re projecting your own anger on me, but CONservatives to a lot of that – it’s part of the mental illness…
August 5th, 2005 at 1:52 am“What about the doctors ryan, are they not as smart as you? they refer to the premies as infants and babies, are they nazis or what?”
A lot of ‘christian’ doctors dispell their scientific minds and say stupid things like that. Don’t forget hitler used doctors to justify oppressing jews, and denying abortions as well. Just because they’re a doctor, doesn’t mean they’re a scientist – those aren’t the same thing. Some doctors are scientists, but many are biological mechanics, and many of those are religious bigots… Like you.
August 5th, 2005 at 1:54 amjust read back when you get a brake. you’ll see..
August 5th, 2005 at 1:55 amare you buddhist?
FascistButtheadedAHole,
First of all, many hospitals and doctors are christian bigots. Just because they call a fetus a baby, doesn’t make it so. You aholes have been trying to rebrand, reframe and misuse that term every since abortion became an issue in the early 20th century. You also think the earth is 8000 years old, but it doesn’t make it true. You can even dig up a couple of scientists who are willing dispell science to lie about creationism for you. But once again, you’re only spouting opinions, and not using facts at that point.
Get over yourself – I already proved you wrong, on every point. At this point you’re just playing clintonesque word games, because you know you’re wrong.
August 5th, 2005 at 1:57 amI don’t limit myself on religions, but I’m well studied in most – it’s a hobby. My to favorites are Hinduism and Gnosticism, although some forms of buddhism are really interesting.
August 5th, 2005 at 1:58 am“What about the doctors ryan, are they not as smart as you?”
I’ve gone to doctors for decades, and a couple I’ve met are probably as smart as me, but I find most of them either lazy or ill informed about anything other than their specialties. And even their specialties I find most of them are pretty lame at. I don’t blame it on them, their jobs are demanding, and they don’t have the time to actually stay well informed unfortunately…
I usually have to guide the doctors to be useful, otherwise they’re lumps….
August 5th, 2005 at 2:01 amI feel similarly, I really enjoy the shobogenzo, the Srimad Bhagavatam, the Upanishads,
August 5th, 2005 at 2:03 amGenesis.
If you like the Upanishads, read the translation by Easwaran if you haven’t already. He points out the fact that Hinduism is the only mythology that actually matches the big bang and modern scientific theories of the fabric of space time. Kinda makes greek, jewish and christian mythology look like the rantings of stupid children…
August 5th, 2005 at 2:05 amfish,
By the definitions of buddhism, without the mind there is no you (although it is not you), and without alpha waves there is no mind. For you to believe a fetus is a life before the mind is alive either means you didn’t get crap out of anything you read, or you’re just lying to yourself about what you actually believe…
August 5th, 2005 at 2:08 amJees, what a bunch of moron posting here… *sigh*
First of all, Carville was an absolute ass and totally unprofessional for the way he was acting. It’s not suprising that all the left winger loonies here don’t see that. But it also lame that a seasoned commentator like Novak would blow up like that. He shouldn’t have reacted to Carville like that…for goodness sakes he had to deal with that bald idiot every day on Corssfire!!
Also, for all you fool calling Novak a traitor… grow up and get a friggin life. You aren’t gonna get Rove, sorry. What freaking losers….
August 5th, 2005 at 2:10 am” that actually matches the big bang and modern scientific theories of the fabric of space time.”
August 5th, 2005 at 2:12 amYes, it’s beautiful isn’t it.
I read from swani nikihlananda’s ” the principal upanishads”
I have read and studied much of the buddhist cannon.
and patanjali’s yoga sutars.
just finished with the “Ramayana” very good, a little over the top.
So Christian doctors are wrong, but you are a “scientist” and you are right. Babies cannot live without the care of adults even after a full term birth, but in your mind a preemie is not a baby because it can live without aid. But we are the ones not using logic. You say fetuses are “for disposal” but we are nazis. I’m not a Christian for the 500 time, but if I’m antiabortion I’m a Christian. OK well,youhave lost this debate, please feel free to keep yelling nazi and trying to salvage your pride, but you lost, deal with it. As for the Irish thing, now I embarrassed, you are of the same blood as me, but there is hope, I once was a liberal to, wisdom comes with age, but you must open your mind. You may want to read lots of Joseph Campbell to help you deal with your hatred of religion.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:12 am“idiot she was born 4 months ago, math hell you are so caught up in trying to salvage your point that you lost 5 minutes ago you can’t even read what I write.”
Maybe in the bizarro world that you live on. I proved that alpha waves are the accepted definition of life. I proved that the fetus was not viable, and was kept alive by artificial life support. I proved that it didn’t even have human brain waves for another 5 weeks after birth, meaning it was still a fetus in an incubator. Just because you’re too stupid, delusional, or the antenna in your tin foil hat doesn’t pick up anything other than the gas from Pat Robertson’s a$$, doesn’t change the fact that you’ve lost every argument you put forward.
No amount of word parsing, misrepresentation of the facts, saying because some other idiot misused a scientific term that it means something different will change the fact that you’re an idiot loser that to anyone who reads this has clearly shown the anti-abortionists have no cause other than an irrational and illogical one based on superstition and an unscientific and irrational religion from a bunch of desert idiots!
August 5th, 2005 at 2:12 amRyan,
August 5th, 2005 at 2:15 amyou cannot seprate the body from the mind.
your studies should have shown you this.
don’t be so insulting with this topic.
maybe you should sit some more and see for yourself.
because it can’t live without aid. Ok, I’m out. Fish, take care. gautum, I agree 100% novak was weak for walking off. Night all. ryan, ….ryan ryan ryan, what can I say. Don’t let the rove get you tonight!
August 5th, 2005 at 2:19 am“So Christian doctors are wrong, but you are a “scientistâ€? and you are right. ”
They’re wrong when they misuse a scientific term for religious and superstitious reasons like you do.
“Babies cannot live without the care of adults even after a full term birth, but in your mind a preemie is not a baby because it can live without aid.”
Babies live on milk, and do not require artificial means to live. They survive on nature, and that’s mother’s milk, not the interference of science. It’s your side that makes all these crazy arguments about how stem cell research is playing god, all the while you’re birthing fetuses and putting them in artificial wombs until they become babies, and then lying about what’s going on to make a big political and religiously dishonest fuss.
“But we are the ones not using logic.”
The only honest thing you’ve said all night.
” You say fetuses are “for disposalâ€? but we are nazis.”
Nazis were anti-abortionists who also oppressed the reproductive rights of women, so yeah you’re exactly like nazis.
“I’m not a Christian for the 500 time, but if I’m antiabortion I’m a Christian.”
Then what are you? Your arguments are definitely derived from the Christian taliban. Even jews used to use bitter herbs to commit abortions during the time of christ. Or didn’t you know that?
” OK well,youhave lost this debate, please feel free to keep yelling nazi and trying to salvage your pride, but you lost, deal with it.”
In your own mind – but like most fascists, you always believe your own propaganda to keep your sanity.
” As for the Irish thing, now I embarrassed, you are of the same blood as me, but there is hope, I once was a liberal to, wisdom comes with age, but you must open your mind. You may want to read lots of Joseph Campbell to help you deal with your hatred of religion.”
Well then you have a christian culture even if you aren’t a christian. The irish always have the stupid potato farmers and the poets, it’s easy to see which stock you arose from. As for joseph campbell, I’ve read every thing he’s ever written, and even seen him speak, and even done workshops – what’s your excuse? Joseph campbell was smart ehough to separate religion and dogma from his politics – I can see your exposure to him has taught you nothing other than stupid self righteousness that lets you claim victory in defeat, and to be proud of your ignorance and propaganda.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:19 am“because it can’t live without aid. Ok, I’m out. Fish, take care. gautum, I agree 100% novak was weak for walking off. Night all. ryan, ….ryan ryan ryan, what can I say. Don’t let the rove get you tonight!”
To compare the natural process of a baby nursing with an incumbator and artificial lungs as even being remotely the same is intellectually dishonest, and such an act of grasping as to show your desperation to cling to your delusions. You’re truly a sad and pathetic little worm!
August 5th, 2005 at 2:21 am“I agree 100% novak was weak for walking off.”
And so are you! Both for walking off, and for being such a lying bag of crap!
August 5th, 2005 at 2:22 amA survey was conducted of 1900 women who had had abortions. The survey asked “Were there any negative psychological effects… [caused] by your abortion?” 94% answered “Yes.” 2% answered “No.”
Another study was conducted by Dr. Anne Speckhard at the University of Minnesota. She concluded, “After 5-10 years 54% of mothers choosing abortion had nightmares, 81% had preoccupation with their aborted child, 35% had perceived visitations with their child, and 96% felt they had taken a human life.”
39000 women who have had an abortion are members of NARAL. 245000 women who have had abortions are members of National Right to Life.
forgot this.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:23 am“Ryan,
you cannot seprate the body from the mind.
your studies should have shown you this.
don’t be so insulting with this topic.
maybe you should sit some more and see for yourself.”
You confuse separating the mind from the body, with having a body and no mind. When a body dies, the mind surely separates from the body – so your claim is once again ill informed and dishonest. And I always love the ’studies have shown’ that CONservatives trott out. It’s another way of saying I’m lying out of my a$$, over my head, but I’m gonna pretend to be smart.
Whatever you’ve read, you’ve learned nothing! If I were your teacher I would send you away!
August 5th, 2005 at 2:24 am#215,
by the way, I think bob novak is a jack-off.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:26 amwhat is this mind that is going to be separating at death.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:29 amthe mind was hear long before any “body”
your thinking about the ego, and as we know this delusion.
here
August 5th, 2005 at 2:30 am“A survey was conducted of 1900 women who had had abortions. ”
Survey says – propaganda. Thanks for continuing to stoop to the levels I expect from a professional propagandist with no grasp for the truth. These ’surveys’ for anyone not familiar are conducted by right wing organizations. Their participants are mainly good christian women, made to feel guilty for their actions, and who want to make a difference about the abortion issue. They always throw in a few ringers so it’s not 100%, otherwise that would raise immediate suspicion that it was propaganda.
Are you always so easily swayed? I’ve got a great multi-level marketing system that I’d LOVE to talk to you about if you’ve got a spare 100k to throw away – I mean invest…
What a gullible dupe you are for this stuff!
August 5th, 2005 at 2:30 amis
August 5th, 2005 at 2:30 am226.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:31 amwhat is this mind that is going to be separating at death.
the mind was here long before any “body�
your thinking about the ego, and as we know this is delusion.
“what is this mind that is going to be separating at death.
the mind was hear long before any “body�
your thinking about the ego, and as we know this delusion.”
You need to read more of the books you prize. The mind interacts with the world through the body, but when the body dies, the mind separates and is reborn – this is reincarnation. If your mind is inseparable from the body, then your mind would die with the body. Unless you believe in the egyptian religion, in which case they both move into the afterworld together. That’s where the whole burial cult of christianty came from, pretty interesting really..
Anyway, I don’t believe you’ve read any of those books, because what you say is nonsense. So again, what do you have to teach me? I’m still waiting to see one thing that you have even basic knowledge on. So far you seem like most CONservatives, big ideas, but too lazy to actually do any work yourself.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:34 am“by the way, I think bob novak is a jack-off.”
Duh, he’s a CONservatives – you’re all jack-offs..
August 5th, 2005 at 2:35 ammaybe you haven’t see it.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:36 amyou can’t see it in a book.
“your thinking about the ego, and as we know this is delusion.”
The delusion is that we are separate from all things, and that we are anything more than one god and one universe manifest. But like drops separated from a single sea, mingle again with the sea, they are both separate and together. The separation is both an illusion and real from the self during consciousness, but even in that separation, we remain a part of the one collective consciousness.
But to deny the illusion exists, and that we are mingled into that illusion, is also a lie… When body and mind become one, we are both separate from and tied to the self. When the body dies, or the consciousness ceases, we return to the self and leave the illusion behind. But the illusion remains (eg. the body)….
August 5th, 2005 at 2:39 am“maybe you haven’t see it.
you can’t see it in a book.”
When I believe you’ve actually understood anything you’ve read – I’ll take your words of ‘wisdom’. How often the ignorant speak not what they know, but what they believe…
August 5th, 2005 at 2:40 amthe mind is this whole universe. (I respect that this is a limmited consept)
August 5th, 2005 at 2:40 amthe entire universe is one bright jewel and all live and matter, non matter is simply the reflecting light of that jewel.
your mind has no end or begining.
put ” ” on that.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:41 amFish, you jackass, I’ve spent a life of living, traveling, learning and doing. When you’ve done that then maybe you’ll be able to have a rational argument with facts, instead of using parlor tricks of relying on ‘can’t be seen’ and ‘can’t rely on science’ and ‘can’t rely on facts’ that is the hallmark of the charlatans and the imbecile. As you get older, you learn this is the copout of the lazy and the stupid. Make up your mind where you are, because from where I sit you’re on on path to enlightment…
August 5th, 2005 at 2:43 am234 text book.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:43 amright now I’m a mix.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:45 amlot’s of hard work.
“the mind is this whole universe.”
Ok, I know you’ve never read hinduism, this is like baby 101 stuff.
the Self is this whole universe
the mind is a physical attachment (an anchor point) of the self in this illusion.
You need the body, the senses, and the mind to meditate inward and find YOUR SELF and therefore THE SELF. They are separate and the same…
For someone who talks about meditation, you’re awful clueless about that as well…
Stop being so lazy, go get the upanishad I recommended, and actually READ it this time. And not just the words, but contemplate and medidate on their meanings. And ask yourself why you’re such a stupid closed minded idiot!
August 5th, 2005 at 2:45 amstupid is the gift
August 5th, 2005 at 2:47 amThuth hurts Bobbie, remember when you were trying to roast Mr.Clinton. To all you Nazies out there, remember, you were defeated once, you’ll be defeated again.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:49 amyour “mind” is limited consept.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:49 amnot true mind.
Ah the old textbook crack. This is the common CONservative insult and assumption. If you’re capable of reading, you don’t value experience, instinct and judgement. Actually Liberals value all 3, too bad CONservatives don’t value reading and learning…
The stereotype of the bookish liberal is so passe, convenient and stupid. But because I suddenly made you feel inferior, like all insecure little boys you had to lash out at me and ‘tear me down’, because I must be ‘weak’ and ‘inexperienced’ if I’m well read. You know, some of us are all those things, even athletic, successful and reasonable to look out… And we even value DOING THINGS – wow, another stupid right wing delusion out the window. You guys make this crap up like popcorn though, so I’m sure you’ll come up with some other bullcrap to say…
August 5th, 2005 at 2:49 am.TRUTH.
LOOK!
August 5th, 2005 at 2:50 am“your “mindâ€? is limited consept.
not true mind.”
As I said stupid boy, read more talk less…
The ‘mind’ is the anchor, the self is the TRUE SELF. But without the mind as an anchor to the body and illusion, you are not part of this ‘reality’…
Hence, no alpha waves, no soul. No soul, no baby!
And hence why I have NO problems from a religious perspective with abortions… The fact that your superstitions or ignorances get in your way, should not permit you to oppress me or my partner from exercising what we feel is morally correct. It’s not your place, and your opinion on the matter is based in ignorance and bigotry – not science!
August 5th, 2005 at 2:52 amyour a fool.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:52 amgod bless,
goodnight.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:54 amfish,
Your soul is too young, and you’re too ignorant to yet know truth. Go seek it, and you might find it someday. But until then stop trying to give others guidance. You’re ill prepared for the task! And take your stupid ignorant fascists cohorts with you. You all sicken me with your blind stupid arrogance! If you actually KNEW ANYTHING it might be different – but I’d had a more informed opponents with teenagers at the mall!
August 5th, 2005 at 2:55 am“your a fool”
Well that’s sorta right. Tonight you were my fool…
A fool is someone comical, and retarded – you definitely qualified for that role on all accounts! And I’ve never understood how the ill informed and uneducated are always the most arrogant. Perhaps their ignorance prevents them from seeing exactly how stupid they actually look, that’s all I can guess..
August 5th, 2005 at 2:56 am“god bless,
goodnight.”
Oh honey, I hope he blesses you. You’ve got so far to go, I can’t see how you’ll make it anywhere far in this lifetime. You can always hope for better luck next time!!!
August 5th, 2005 at 2:57 amWhy does every liberal vs. conservative argument always end up being about abortion? Abortion has got to be the most irrelevant issue around today. Thanks to the conservative fixation with saving frozen fetus life, the time is fast approaching when women aren’t even going to have abortions anymore. We’re just gonna pop those suckers out live and freeze them for some conservative brood cow to adopt. The technology is just about there, thankyouverymuch. (And it’s so ridiculous when men are the ones arguing. Maybe when this pathetically child-hating nation starts enforcing its child support laws it’ll be worth talking about whether you men have the right to an opinion on whether someone else should bear and raise a squalling brat infant than in more cases than not will be abandoned by its father.)
So can’t we find a new, more relevant way of arguing about whether or not Novak should or should not have had his little temper tantrum? Sheesh.
August 5th, 2005 at 3:04 amLike Novak,
The a$$wipe$ of the right took their balls and ran. No surprise, it’s a lot of work to live in their delusion, but they do it with such fanatic zeal! It’s kind of impressive from a sadistic watch someone hit themselves with a ballpeen hammar in the head sort of way.
So tonight’s lesson is!
Abortion is a red herring.
The right happily distorts and lies about terms, facts and even scientific studies in order to fundraise and produce an army of stupid zombies.
The right prefers to turn off ’science’ because hitler used science to kill jews – and yet ironically hitler was anti-abortion, and the scientists had to ‘disregard’ their science to support him and his christian right – just like these aholes…
NeoCons are in fact students of LeoStauss and nazism.
And of course we were reminded that fascism is EXACTLY like modern CONservative corporatism.
So in reality we learned that abortion is a ruse to turn otherwise well intention people into stupid fascist bullies, and ironically they don’t even know their politics are fascist! How’s that for a bitter twist of irony!
Anyway, this was fun. I needed a good scrap with some bully idiots – it did my irish good!
I’m sorry if I offended anyone with my tackle and crush, and I tried to keep it on one thread. But in the end it was good for me, and hopefully those who have only received the disinformation of the dishonest fools like fba and fish learned something tonight!
August 5th, 2005 at 3:04 amarky,
It ends up being about abortion because most CONservatives grow up with the ‘disciplinarian’ father in dysfunctional and often abusive or alcoholic families. They never form a healthy bond with both their mother and father figures, and they distrust women. That distrust of women manifests it self in an irrational need to protect the reproductive cycle. It stems from their own fears of inadequacy both as a son and as a spouse, and they are often unconscious of this ’sickness’ in their psyche.
This is why men in particular are such stupid anti-abortionists when they are. What’s sad is that shows how many men grow up with dysfunctional families and inept fathers!
I feel VERY fortunate. Both my mother and father were incredibly good and loving roll models. I had a loving, nurturing and well structured childhood, and as an adult I realize exactly how lucky I was as I see the families of other people in more detail. Besides eduction, required parenting classes for new parents would do more to solve the CONservative insanity in this society than anything else – and I firmly believe that! The reason so many liberals have trouble ‘understand’ CONservatives, is that they haven’t come to realize that while many are well meaning, many are sick untreated and poorly socialized adults that early intervention might have prevented…
August 5th, 2005 at 3:10 amFBI wiretap indicates that Hastert took bribes from foreign countries for congressional votes! Well I always new CONservatives were whores for money, but to whore out to foreign governments is unamerican! ;)
http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Vanity_Fair_floats_allegations_GOP_chief_Hastert_took_Turkish__0803.html
August 5th, 2005 at 3:31 amThe real delusion Ryan, is thinking the mind can survive without the body. You profess to be a scientist: show some proof the mind can survive after death.
August 5th, 2005 at 3:50 amAnd Hunter,
I totally agree with you on the fragility of the mind. It can’t even survive a hormone or drug dose in reality! Minor changes in brain chemistry introduced by any number of drugs can create an entirely different set of personality traits. It can disrupt, create and replace memories. It can distort senses and perceptions. It can effectively create a different person and a different mind.
This is why hinduism teaches you that the mind is an illusion and that you must meditate through and see beyond it. Without the mind you have no human consciousness. Without the body, you have no mind. But if hinduism is right, even without both of these there is still some ‘aspect’ of the consciousness that transcends time and exists beyond the bounds. Considering that the synapses of the brain where conscious thoughts occur are tiny quantum computers – I can believe and even scientifically see the possibility and probability that this might be true…
That being said, I prefer proof as well – so if I achieve enlightment and transcend my body, I’ll let you know ;) Until then science dictates policies, my religion dictates my hobby…
August 5th, 2005 at 4:20 amTHE REAL STORY is that Novak Avoided the Plame LEAK QUESTIONS. Novak was so afraid of being asked about the Leak, he purposely created a situation that would “Justify” him walking off, and avoiding the REAL heat – the cussing was a smoke screen designed to ad drama and focus attention away from the plame Q’s. . He’s a coward – like most neocons. remember Bring’m on?
August 5th, 2005 at 7:28 amThe human process and cycle of karma takes way too long….
August 5th, 2005 at 8:15 amMr. Novak’s defensive reaction to the question he knew was coming next, regarding the Rove National security breach, is just one of many reasons so many of us who have been loyal to the republican party all of our lives are preparing to cross party lines and vote Democrat in 06 and 08. This and 5 years of failed domestic and foreign policy and a party leadership that frankly appears to be guilty of some very unamerican — and possibly criminal behavior — leave us no choice but to look for answers in other parties and hopelfully restore the dignity and greatness that once definded our Party and our Country.
August 5th, 2005 at 8:45 am[...] My, how times have changed. [...]
August 5th, 2005 at 9:06 amStephen, It would be nice to look forward to the day when both parties respected each other, had different approaches toward solving mutual national problems, hence the need for two parties; didn’t poison the landscape with dirty tricks, lies and other childish behavior; actually acted mature and for the benefit of all.
August 5th, 2005 at 9:08 amI’d like to be able to choose between the greater of two goods than the lesser of two evils.
Rnnggg! The alarm clock! I was dreaming.
[...] anchor Ed Henry and D.C. bureau chief David Bohrman after the segment, Media Bistro reports, “furious” about Henry’s post-walk-off statement. 10:21 am | Comment (0) [...]
August 5th, 2005 at 10:21 amCNN would do well to let Novak go permanently. He does nothing to improve any show that he is a “commentator.”
August 5th, 2005 at 10:52 amTold you it wasn’t Rove. Rove was the whistleblower. The person behind the leak is going to be proven to be someone like Novak. So far everybody is saying they either got Valerie’s name from him, or from a person who first got it from him.
August 5th, 2005 at 11:51 amGuilt has a way of making you do things.
August 5th, 2005 at 12:14 pmI suggest Novak learn to live with it.
Need_Reform,
Don’t be naive, Rove is nowhere near off the hook. Its a group thing, see?
August 5th, 2005 at 12:19 pmIt wasn’t whistles Rove was blowing either.
August 5th, 2005 at 12:20 pmRyan,
August 5th, 2005 at 12:44 pmYou cannot win the argument like that. People of extreme religious dogma cannot be swayed. You hate to compromise because of you feel you have science on your side. But they have God on their side. I say abortion should not be used for birth control, rare indeed (ie.. rape, incest). If rape or incest always the mothers choice. Otherwise if viable and was the creation of an “accident” – then I would have to agree with the right wing nut cases on this blog. When the fetus looks like a damn frog/or one cannot tell the difference between a human or monkey – and their are
no alpha waves detectable – then to hell with dogma get real.
We can talk all we want, the fact still remains that accroding to the clock 753 days, 12 hours and 53 minutes have gone by with out a Republican Investigation into the leak. Remember White Water? Tax payers still haven’t paid that bill off.
August 5th, 2005 at 12:47 pmUnfortunately for those calling for FCC fines, that won’t happen. They won’t fine cable networks. The FCC will only fine offending broadcast networks, not cable networks. The appologists who try to minimize Novak’s foul tantrum on CNN by comparing it to a bit on Comedy Central is ludicrous. They need to just bend over and take their medicine!
That said, hopefully Novak will be caught having perjured himself during the investigation. That is what will ultimately lead to his prosecution and imprisonment. YeeHawww! If anyone deserves to be locked up, he sure does!
August 5th, 2005 at 12:47 pmSpeaking of Comedy Central, I can’t wait to see how John Steward handles his favorite reporter out burst. Also to add, I couldn’t agree more with Mahakala # 272
August 5th, 2005 at 12:54 pmWhy is it that some of you libs want to become the very thing that you hate?
If Al Franken said bs and walked off, would you think he really deserved a fine? Listen, I’d be the first to say that Nofacts deserves a blind fold and a last cigerette for his CAREER of treason, but I’ll be damn if I’ll act like a CON and call the FCC for the guy freaking out on live TV. It was probably the most honest thing that ever came out of his mouth. This guy may be facing indictment (OK, doubtful) so can you really expect him to sit there and let Carville call him a girly man? Carville, who I also consider a hack, got personal.
If Carville wants to impress me, he needs to stand up to that Con shrew of a wife he has (who deserves her own indictment).
August 5th, 2005 at 1:43 pmBush is a confirmed alcolic Jim in St Lou. Your just using the same defense mechanisms that your admininstration uses, DENIAL. Bush also shows his alcoholic/addict personality by defending a baseball player who tested postive for illicit substances. Bush also shows his alcoholic/addictive personality by using crisis to bring the country together, like a dysfunctional family. By the way I am a professional drug counselor, I am qualified to make this assessment.
August 5th, 2005 at 1:58 pmI think I’ll have another burrito.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:00 pmArlen Specter LASHES out at Novak, on different subject…
http://www.theunionleader.com/articles_showfast.html?article=58686
August 5th, 2005 at 2:07 pmGive it to them Ryan!Tho I must say you will never get those bubbleheads of the right to accept logic.It just wont resonate ol`boy!Let me put it this way …
August 5th, 2005 at 3:08 pmYou would have a much better chance of poking butter up a porcupines ass…with a red -hot knitting needle.than you would have of them agreeing with you :)
For Ryan,
Blue states have a lower divorce rate, and thus are more moral, red states are hypocritical.
Answer: My, my! Now who’s suddenly developed an overweaning, pharasiacal moralism? Interesting how righteous some of us get about traditional family values when we think the data flatters us!
Actually, it doesn’t. “Divorce rate” is calculated as a percent of population, not as a percentage of marriages. So-called “blue” states have fewer marriages, and thus will have fewer divorces.
If we believed this was due to chastity, this might be an argument we could accept with a straight face. But if not, then it’s laughable to argue that having more children out of wedlock or failing to “commit” demonstrates your allegedly higher commitment to traditional family values — simply because those two practices don’t (and can’t) result in divorce
August 5th, 2005 at 3:31 pmNOVAK SHOULD BE TREATED AS A CRIMINAL. ROVE LEAKED INFO TO HIM BUT HE LEAKED IT TO THE WORLD AT LARGE THIS IS A TREASONONESS ACT. NOFACT SAYING BU..SH.. IS NOT IMPORTANT. THE HARM THAT HAS BEEN DONE TO OUR CSI DUE TO THE LEAK IS DEVASTATING. I FEEL THAT THE WHOLE BUSH REGIME IS GUILTY OF TREASON. WE MUST ALL WORK TOGETHER TO STOP THEIR DISDRUCTION OF OUR COUNTRY.JIM/SL THERE COMES A TIME WHEN WE HAVE TO ADMIT OUR FAV. PARTY HAS GONE ASTRAY AND ABANDOM THEM ASAP.
August 5th, 2005 at 3:40 pmLove the “New & Improved Left’s” positions: 1.)Guilty before trial – but only Repubs or Conservatives. 2.)Our Country’s Security Issues are paramount! – since when? since the ACLU is fighting tooth & nail to stop NY transit security checks??? The only thing I’ve noticed that makes a whiny liberal cry is the horrifying prospect of less $$ for their dependency programs
August 5th, 2005 at 4:04 pmWhy would I agree to change the definition of fetus or infant or baby, just because ryan yells and calls me hateful names? Even though it was doctors, most likely Christian doctors, who even found the data on alpha waves he sites, when it’s clear, and make no mistake it’s clear he is wrong about the definition of fetus, he claims Christianity has clouded doctors scientific objectivity. He even goes so far as to claim he knows more than doctors who treat him. Now I’m not saying doctors are without fault, but like someone who represents him or herself in court has a fool for a client, so to someone who treats himself or deludes himself into thinking he does has a fool for a patient. If he wants to warp his mind into technical terms regarding human life in order to deny a fellow human life, the least he can do is be accurate. A premature child, once born is not a fetus, not by any accepted definition, that ryan is pompous enough to think he can redefine human life should make a reasonable person think twice before making a fool out of themself by defending his ridiculous position. Now you could say as a medical question of technical definition in utero children are by definition a fetus or foetus, that a baby is a born child, but you cannot argue that a preemie is not a baby or that a fetus in it’s mother’s womb is not human. Not and be sane anyway.
August 5th, 2005 at 4:27 pmROFL at Novak’s outburst and looking forward to tonight’s McLaughlin Group discussion.
As a female, I’ll add that the right to choose at any time is important to us irrespective of alpha-waves or medical miracles. Why should anyone else claim rights over our womb or our eggs? The physical and hormonal changes of childbearing are significant life events that endanger the health of ladies who are already stressed from obesity, cancer, the necessity of keeping a job and other out-of-control situations. Adoption is not an option in cases such as I describe. A woman should be able to quietly and safely abort for the continued health of her existing family stucture.
People who legislate solutions like the three-day rule for abandoning an infant are neglecting the spectrum of health and social issues that make such answers too specific and inadequate for the community. Although I do not relish bashing the brains of an unwanted infant, I understand the reasons why women in China felt compelled to do so to maintain face and avoid lifestyle penalties from the government. The Christians who deny our children condoms for fear of endorsing premarital sex and ban abortions for fear of pissing off God are creating a culture where girls throw the baby in the dumpster because they couldn’t get a medical intervention without parental approval. How sick is that?
August 5th, 2005 at 4:36 pmFunny that the BUSH administration refuses to investigate and cooperate the very serious case involving Robert Novak and demon’s(Karl Rove’s)leak of Valerie Plame,but than again they tried their hardest to block the 9/11 comission but when that failed they wouldn’t cooperate with them and they still haven’t released all documents on both Mr.Roberts or Mr.bolton,but still expect an up or down vote.
August 5th, 2005 at 4:39 pmFunny that there never were any wmd’s but w still expects americans to be “patient” even as their children are slaughtered everyday in Iraq.
After all this talk,you still simply haven’t gotten over the fact that President clinton received a blowjob and I imagine it’s because all of you gun toting redneck,beer bellied fools who call youerselves “conservatives” can’t get one yourselves.
Your hypocrisy is limitless and all of you should be in Iraq if you support this monster so much whether your 99 or 12.May you burn in hell!
“Ryan,
You cannot win the argument like that. People of extreme religious dogma cannot be swayed.”
Actually I did win the argument, they just prefer ignorance over facts. Just like I can win the argument that the earth is older than 8000 years old because there are 11,000 year old tree rings in the bristlecone forests.
The fact that they don’t acknowledge the loss, doesn’t change the fact that they have.
” You hate to compromise because of you feel you have science on your side. But they have God on their side.”
Compromise is based on some give and take – and frankly we already have that. Third term abortions are state regulated, and often illegal, and although science says this should be regulated to 28-32 weeks, I can live with this compromise. The problem is that people don’t want me to compromise based on a reality, they want me to compromise based on their own personal fantasies. You can have those all you want, but they have no place in public policies.
” I say abortion should not be used for birth control, rare indeed (ie.. rape, incest). If rape or incest always the mothers choice.”
Say what you want, but that’s based on your own personal attitudes, and not facts, science, reason or even history. Women have been taking herbal cocktails and used other methods to produce abortions for centuries as birth control. Only whem we became a feudalistic male dominated society did men usurp this right of the woman over her own body. You can choose to not use it as birth control if you like, but to force this on others because of your own ignorance and bias is your issue.
“Otherwise if viable and was the creation of an “accidentâ€? – then I would have to agree with the right wing nut cases on this blog.”
Viable fetuses aren’t until 3rd trimester – these are already regulated and aren’t part of the roe v wade overturning of abortion – or did you miss that fact.
” When the fetus looks like a damn frog/or one cannot tell the difference between a human or monkey – and their are
no alpha waves detectable – then to hell with dogma get real.”
Looks can be deceiving – or did you miss that argument as well. Terri ‘looked’ alive, yet she had no brain waves. I’m always amazed at how opinionated people are about this in their utter and blind self willed ignorance.
August 5th, 2005 at 4:39 pmWow, talk about lousy acting. I just watched the video, Bob Novak was just waiting for an excuse to check out and not answer questions. I hope Bob Novak is gone, he is nothing but a elitist.
August 5th, 2005 at 4:46 pm“Why would I agree to change the definition of fetus or infant or baby, just because ryan yells and calls me hateful names? ”
You don’t have to agree that the world is round, but your ignorance of the facts do not change them. And your willingness to spout your ignorance only shows what a stupid tool you are…
“He even goes so far as to claim he knows more than doctors who treat him.”
Actually I said I have to tell them what to do, and make them do their homework for me. I know subtleties elude idiots like you.
“Now I’m not saying doctors are without fault, but like someone who represents him or herself in court has a fool for a client, so to someone who treats himself or deludes himself into thinking he does has a fool for a patient.”
And yet you disregard the expertise of doctors who tell you what a fetus is, and you tell them what they can and can’t do. What a bitter irony, I’m not surprised you’re too stupid to see the hypocrisy in.
“If he wants to warp his mind into technical terms regarding human life in order to deny a fellow human life, the least he can do is be accurate.”
Warp my mind? Wow, projection is definitely your forte. This kind of self inflicted stupidity is why we have separation of church and state!
“A premature child, once born is not a fetus, not by any accepted definition,”
Actually, a premature ‘child’ by definition is a premature baby – but then again your fascist propagandists are always all about the word play to manipulate yourself into being criminally insane. But a premature fetus is a premature fetus, until it develops into a baby by artificial means.
” that ryan is pompous enough to think he can redefine human life should make a reasonable person think twice before making a fool out of themself by defending his ridiculous position.”
The fact that Fascists like you are pompous enough that you think you can redefine the definition of life that was created by experts in the field based on decades of work, and that is used to govern the medicine, ethics and treatment of americans based on some stupid irrational preconceptions that science disproves shows your utter disregard for anything other than your own stupid delusions.
“Now you could say as a medical question of technical definition in utero children are by definition a fetus or foetus, that a baby is a born child, but you cannot argue that a preemie is not a baby or that a fetus in it’s mother’s womb is not human. Not and be sane anyway.”
Blah Blah Blah. A fetus is not a baby, a baby has brain waves. Just because you don’t know this, and are happy to live in your own delusional fantasy doesn’t make it true. But it does make you crazy.
August 5th, 2005 at 4:47 pm165.
But that’s not what I said you lying freak! A human adult is only alive when it has alpha waves, fetuses don’t have that – they aren’t babies. Babies are what you get at 7 months, when the brain waves start and a premature can be born.
You’re such a lying propagandist ahole…
Comment by Ryan Neat  August 5, 2005 @ 12:42 am
August 5th, 2005 at 4:48 pmI proved you wrong ryan. That is not the definition of fetus or baby. Deal with your lose, you are a liberal, you should be use to it. LOL, nutter than a snickers.
All that talk about abortion…You’ll never convince those conservatives that women have rights. They never really have to deal with it. They are so busy praying that they haven’t been laid in years. One of my favorite lines from a movie is “Never seen anyone in such dire need of a blow job in my life”. Robin Williams says it in Good Morning Vietnam. I couldn’t agree more. As for Novak I e-mailed CNN 2 months ago and told them they should get rid of him.
August 5th, 2005 at 4:50 pm“For Ryan,
Blue states have a lower divorce rate, and thus are more moral, red states are hypocritical.”
Actually that is hypocritical. For Red States to preach the sanctity of marriage, and then have a higher rate of failure at it demonstrates complete and utter hypocrisy. When you couple that they claim to be ‘christians’, and yet Jesus himself forbade divorce except for adultery and then no remarriage – then they’re utter hypocrits. You can’t use the bible to justify no abortion (never discussed by christ), and then disregard a direct edict that prevents divorce (directly forbidden by jesus) and not be a hypocrit.
The fact that you don’t know what hypocrisy means, definitely explains why you’re a conservative.
“Answer: My, my! Now who’s suddenly developed an overweaning, pharasiacal moralism? Interesting how righteous some of us get about traditional family values when we think the data flatters us!”
Me – nah. You can’t tell the difference of me criticizing your hypocrisy, and advocating traditional marriage values? God you’re stupid.
“Actually, it doesn’t. “Divorce rateâ€? is calculated as a percent of population, not as a percentage of marriages. So-called “blueâ€? states have fewer marriages, and thus will have fewer divorces.”
They have more marriages, because they have more divorces, and multiple marriages. Hadn’t thought of that one had you!
“If we believed this was due to chastity, this might be an argument we could accept with a straight face. But if not, then it’s laughable to argue that having more children out of wedlock or failing to “commitâ€? demonstrates your allegedly higher commitment to traditional family values  simply because those two practices don’t (and can’t) result in divorce ”
Abstinence produce people with stupid and unrealistic expectations of marriage. The result is typically marriages that fail because you have idiots marrying idiots. Speaking of which, have you found your co-idiot yet?
August 5th, 2005 at 4:51 pmFascismBreedsIgnorance,
Let me begin by saying you’ve never proven anything in your life, and just because you say it doesn’t make it so except in your fantasies – which apparently rule your world..
“But that’s not what I said you lying freak! A human adult is only alive when it has alpha waves, fetuses don’t have that – they aren’t babies. Babies are what you get at 7 months, when the brain waves start and a premature can be born.”
That’s correct.
“You’re such a lying propagandist ahole…
Comment by Ryan Neat  August 5, 2005 @ 12:42 am
I proved you wrong ryan. That is not the definition of fetus or baby. Deal with your lose, you are a liberal, you should be use to it. LOL, nutter than a snickers.”
And yet, you said nothing, other than repeating what I said before that a ‘baby’ requires brain waves at 7 months.
You’ve so lost your cookies that you’re repeating my truths, and saying I lost with them? Wow, get some meds you lunatic!
August 5th, 2005 at 4:54 pm“Give it to them Ryan!Tho I must say you will never get those bubbleheads of the right to accept logic.”
Most of them won’t use reason, because if they accept reason as a useful tool, then they would have to examine their own failed and dissatisfied lives as well using it. It’s easier to have blind faith, and accept things without reason, and discount anyone capable of using it as ‘living in a book’ or ‘not living in the real world’, while ironically they live entirely in a delusional fantasy….
I’m on vacation this month – and I had a couple of days to kill before heading overseas. I figured taking one these idiots might be a good workout, but they’ve been so stupid and delusional it’s not been nearly the challenge I had hoped.
I at least expected them to tout out some crap from focus on the family, or one of the other scam organizations that prey on their innocence and idiocy…
August 5th, 2005 at 4:57 pmJanet,
I agree. I didn’t do it for them, but for all of the people who haven’t seen all of the arguments that these stupid a$$hole$ drag out of their a$$e$. They always have to fall back to their religion or the preconceptions, or try to parse words and say ‘well this doctor agrees with me’, in order to justify their bigotry and stupidity.
For most of these men, they grew up with dysfunctional parental figures, and instead of developing a healthy relationship with women they become resentful. That fear and resentment of women makes them lash out in ways that present their masculinity and control. It’s an expression of their insecurity – and readily visible to anyone paying attention – and yet they can’t see it themselves. Really pathetic actually…
August 5th, 2005 at 5:00 pm[...] UPDATE: Josh Marshall talks to James Carville about Novak’s outburst yesterday. Evidently, things were pretty tense with Novak and Henry–most likely because of what happened last time and the questions Ed Henry was going to ask this time. [...]
August 5th, 2005 at 5:32 pmJames Carville is the definition of bullshit.
August 5th, 2005 at 6:00 pmIf anyone hasn’t answered yet, they were talking about Katherine Harris for Senate (shudder) when he stormed off.
August 5th, 2005 at 6:01 pmRyan said that 3 month old humans are no different than a head spinach.
August 5th, 2005 at 6:26 pmAlso, you should read some of his anti-semitic rhetoric.
This guy is a lost cause…and a nazi.
Defending his fiction with more fiction.
Don’t waste your time.
Kind of funny that “conservatives bring abortin into nearly every single political debate,or other “moral values” such as gay marriages.
August 5th, 2005 at 6:44 pmLet’s stick to the fact.
Robert Novak had a pathetic 2 year old outburst because he is trying to hide the TRUTH from the American public that he was involved in the leaking of Valerie Plame,and no matter how much you try to change the subject,that it was the focus is.
“Ryan said that 3 month old humans are no different than a head spinach.
Also, you should read some of his anti-semitic rhetoric.
This guy is a lost cause…and a nazi.
Defending his fiction with more fiction.”
And you’re a lying propagandists. I said both my spinach salad and a ‘fetus’ were alive, but both don’t constitute a human being. Your claim that I said they were ‘no different’ is standard propandist lying and misrepresentation of the facts.
Anti-semitic? Only in the delusional world of fish… I’m a leftist pascifist who doesn’t believe in the death penalty, and you’re the anti-abortionist who dies, so by your political alighnment you’re the nazi fascist. Nazism was a RIGHT WING, not LEFT WING movement you illiterate retard.
As for anti-semitic, I’ve publically and repeatedly stated I believe in the right of israel to exist, but I also believe in the rights for a palestinian state. As an anti-islamist, you’re hardly in no position to throw stones you bigot! Any right wing nut with a keyboard throws out anti-semitism and nazism to anyone they agree with, while ironically it was nazism that is their right wing values…
August 5th, 2005 at 7:13 pmFish,
You’re clinically insane – get some help. You’re the second stupidest buddhist I’ve ever met – whatever’s wrong with your NeoCortex, you ain’t right child!
August 5th, 2005 at 7:13 pmOh, and Fish,
It must have been embarrasing to realize you were too stupid to distinguish between a primate fetus and human fetus wasn’t it? You’re such a putz!
August 5th, 2005 at 7:15 pmOne last jab as I run…
When the CONservative beast is confronted by his own insecurities – he lies and misrepresents about what just transpired (the whopping that he received) to himself and everyone around despite the record clearly showing he’s lying, in order to save what shred of decency and delusion of himself he has left. The emasculated CONservative who’s been taken to the woodshed and shown his stupidity is perhaps the saddest and most pathetic creature in the wilderness of the internet. It will pant, retell its lies, and even lie and distort what was said as a last jab in a faint attempt to deny the interchange. This inability to recognize when he’s been bested stems from his early feelings of inadequacy from his distant father – and unfortunately no amount of internet reinforcement of his lost masculinity will fix this. Only therapy and acceptance of is TRUE self will solve this issue, but that will always elude him because if his irrational fears and delusional framework created to keep out the pain…
And THIS is why the politics of the nation have tanked. As more and more little boys have grown up without proper father figures, and more and more women are demand a whole, healthy and complete man – the disconnect has created a generation of dissatisfied, distrustful and fearful men who hate women. All of these rantings stem from their own feelings of inadequacy – and frankly the REAL problem is that there should be parenting classes for these lunatic right wing families. But of course the sort of crazy people like we see here are the LAST ones who actually care enough about children to raise them healthy, although they talk a good game about ’saving’ children. As I once heard written. CONservatives are interested in creation of children, liberals are interested in the care of children…
August 5th, 2005 at 7:32 pm[...] Late(2) Update: ThinkProgress has what Henry said: “Thanks, James Carville. And I’m sorry as well that Bob Novak left the set a little early. I had told him in advance that we were going to ask about the CIA leak case, he was not here for me to be able to ask him about that. Hopefully, we’ll be able to ask him about that in the future.� [...]
August 5th, 2005 at 7:48 pmThe truth hurts doesnt it Bob. “You protest to much sir”
August 5th, 2005 at 7:59 pmENOUGH WITH THE ABORTION ISSUE!
Is that what this topic is about? I thought it was about Carville and Nosack.
August 5th, 2005 at 9:23 pmI GREW UP IN ONE OF THOSE CRACKPOT RIGHT WING RELIGIOUS HOMES WHERE INCEST IS PART OF THE SUBMISSION TRAINING FOR DAUGHTERS. THE FOLLOWING IS AN EXAMPLE OF MY GREAT CHRISTIAN UPBRINGING. THE STORY IS ACTUALLY HALARIOUS NOW. MY FATHER THREW A SHOE AT OUR BARKING DOG AND THE DOG FELL OVER AND HAD A SEIZURE. MY DAD FREAKED OUT, STARTED CRYING AND SAID GOD WILL NEVER FORGIVE ME. HE THEN TURNED TO ME,I WAS 17YRS OLD AND SAID SINCE YOU ARE NOT A CHRISTIAN WOULD YOU LIE TO THE VET AND SAY SOME KIDS THREW ROCKS AT THE DOG. I WAS GLAD TO OBLIDGE HIS NEED FOR HIS HEATHEN DAUGHTER TO LIE FOR HIM AS HE KNEW I WAS HELL BOUND ANYWAY!
August 6th, 2005 at 12:10 amryan how can you proclaim to care about women while promoting abortion? ryan, your definition of fetus is wrong.Where did you find it?
fe·tus (fÄ“’tÉ™s)
n., pl. -tus·es.
The unborn young of a viviparous vertebrate having a basic structural resemblance to the adult animal.
In humans, the unborn young from the end of the eighth week after conception to the moment of birth, as distinguished from the earlier embryo.
[Middle English, from Latin fētus, offspring.]
http://www.answers.com/topic/fetus
fetus
A noun
1 fetus, foetus
an unborn or unhatched vertebrate in the later stages of development showing the main recognizable features of the mature animal
Category Tree:
http://www.wordreference.com/definition/fetus
Definition of Fetus
Fetus: The unborn offspring from the end of the 8th week after conception (when the major structures have formed) until birth. Up until the eighth week, the developing offspring is called an embryo.
http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=3424
birth ryan , even if that birth is at 23 weeks. Now if it’s not a human then what is it? You never answered if you had kids, on another post you said I was not your type man? If you are gay, and that’s your problem if you are not mine, that would explain why you defend abortion on demand, it would never affect you. You made it past the vacuum, your mommy gave a thumb up to you. Lucky you.
August 6th, 2005 at 12:18 amI think someone should grab Novak and send him to: Egipto, Arabia Saudita, Turquia, or any of those countries heck even Colombia to get the truth out of his ass, for these people to said that they never mention any names that they only said “Harris’ wife”
August 6th, 2005 at 1:07 ammy question is How many wives does this Harris guy have?. Their crap just does not add up.
Just like the W Bush’s excuse for war, IT had/has nothing to do with the atrocities of Osama Bin laden, but a lot to do with cleaning up the Bush’s name he sought the oportunity to reindivicate his father’s faliure to get Sadam and he took it, and he did it draging the USA under his them feet matter non
If you didnt already know that most the media and the government is bought and paid for by large corporations your a retard. REVOLUTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
August 6th, 2005 at 1:13 amI agree with Phemy on #283 for the record. And Ryan Neat, settle down friend. You even started arguing with somone who agreed with you (#270 abortthis) at least to a degree.
I have to say that Abortthis had a good point, in that some people do tend to use abortion as a from of contraception. Usually because they’ve been unable to aquire real forms eg. Condoms (probably becasue of uberchristian parents), and this is wrong. But the choice to abort shouldn’t be denied. Just educate the people who are serial aborting and have them use proper methods of contraception.
Now Ryan, ignore Fish and FakebutAccurate, rejoin sensibility and let’s discuss the topic at hand. How much us Brits rock…….no wait, Novak’s walk-out.
Can’t say I’m suprised. Your neo-cons have a hard time answering questions. They’re trained in evasion not honesty. What’s really annoying is that monkey dubya has somehow infected Tony Blair. He’s starting to mutate in dubya jr. He’s even developed a monkey grin just the same. Not to mention the evasion tactics.
August 6th, 2005 at 1:10 pmLOL Rik, no CANADIANS rock! Although I’d wager that Brits take second place ;). And I agree, people who have something to hide usually avoid questions or ‘blow up’ over something trivial in order to escape the conversation.
As a side note. Today is the 60th anniversary of the Hiroshima bombing. I wonder what Bush is doing right now to remember such a tragic event… Oh. He’s on vacation.
August 6th, 2005 at 1:19 pmhehe yeah Canada is pretty cool. Could well be a wager you’d win :D
August 6th, 2005 at 1:47 pmWow things are really intense here. The debate here about these target issues are tactics used by conservatives constantly.In my seems to boil down to responsibility. One group of people are willing to turn the responsibility over to groups and organizations to excuse themselves of rational thought and cupability.
Since when has the pursuit of knowledge or intelligence a bad thing.
Abortion will always happen, legalized or not. It has always did and always will. Some theorize Post Pardum depression is a leftover from our not so distant past. When in tribal socities the tribe would decide wether or not there were enough resources for another life. If not the baby would be killed.
193.
” If you are gay, and that’s your problem if you are not mine, that would explain why you defend abortion on demand, it would never affect you.”
Apparently when logic and reason fails accuse them of being gay. Well as a gay man I will tell you that my concern for this issue is womaen being slaughterd in a back alley operation,while her wealthy counerpart flies to another country that allows the fetus.
We stand by and watch the continet of Africa descimated by AIDS, starvation, and genocide. If only they had oil wells we would be able liberate them as well
This entire adminstration makes Nixon look like a full fledge Patriot.
August 6th, 2005 at 2:53 pmRik â€â€Usually because they’ve been unable to aquire real forms eg. Condoms (probably becasue of uberchristian parents), and this is wrong.
who can’t get condoms? They are sold or given away all across the country. But if you can’t get a condom, do you have self control?
Gay blade, ryan made the statement, I really don’t care how you live your life, but ask yourself, is it really ok to bring sexual orientation into arguments only if you are dhimmicrat? It would seem outing gay conservatives would be the same as liberals, but I guess that would make to much sense. Do you think women don’t die from legal abortions, think again.
That’s what I thought ryan, your definition is yours alone. You think you get to decide what makes a human a human and the definition of fetus and baby, but you do not. Like I said, you lost this argument long ago, at least now you realize it. Now to the women or girls who try to defend ryan by fantasizing we are trying to take away your rights, you have the right to choose to get pregnant or not and if abortionists cared about rape victims they would report children who come into their clinics as victims of rape but they do not, it’s the right to kill your child I have a problem with. Most men who defend abortion do so because it’s a way to leave all the responsibility of pregnancy up to you. It’s your choice, so you are the one with the karmic baggage from the murder of your unborn child, they get to walk away unscathed, or so they think.
August 6th, 2005 at 3:21 pmbut ask yourself, is it really ok to bring sexual orientation into arguments only if you are dhimmicrat?
You, or any other Republicon or conservacrat, are the last person here who should be attempting to occupy the moral high ground on any point. It will be another 1000 years before the lunatic fringies like you ever get this close to driving the bus over the cliff again.
August 6th, 2005 at 5:10 pmHow did the discussion devolve into an abortion issue?
Well, here come my 2 cents anyway.
Look at the picture of the 3-month-old fetus and ask yourself, “could I bring myself to cut its head off?â€?
Would it be ok for abortion clinics to sell them for spare parts or testing?
How would you feel if you came across this tiny fetus, squirming in a trashcan – its tiny hands reaching out, its mouth open, obviously alive and suffering? Would you shut the lid, walk away and try to forget about it. Would you feel anything?
Deep in your heart, you KNOW its wrong – if you have a heart!
August 6th, 2005 at 5:56 pmWow misterb, that’s so far off the mark it’s ubleievable. How would a foetus survive in a trash can when they can’t survive outside the mother. Anyways abortion takes place at the embryonic stage.
So back in the real world (and back on topic), could there be a good reason for Novak’s walk off, like stress, or is it that he wanted to avoid the question?
August 6th, 2005 at 8:10 pmRik,
So your answer is you feel nothing for that life?
What about 6 months? 9 Months? At what point do people like you grow a conscience? People with your attitude is what I consider unbelievable.
Your other points are also incorrect. They are alive. they can live,(albeit a short time) outside the womb.
Have a look, if you dare, at what a HUMAN BEING looks like at 9weeks.
August 6th, 2005 at 10:10 pmYou, or any other Republicon or conservacrat, are the last person here who should be attempting to occupy the moral high ground on any point. It will be another 1000 years before the lunatic fringies like you ever get this close to driving the bus over the cliff again.
Comment by Shoeless Joe Stalin
So kerry bringing up Cheney’s kid is OK, the swarming on that Jeff Gannon guy is OK, but someone who outs himself, argues over a subject that could not involve him, makes ridiculous assertions that are just wrong cannot be called on it? As for the thousand year comment, you guys tried that last century, your Reich will always fail, even when you replace the swastika with a happy face. And your holocaust of the unborn will end soon. By the way what in the world was the NYT looking to open the abortion files on John Roberts kids for? Do you people have a once of decency? It’s telling you named yourself after the worst mass murderer of the 20th century, then try to lecture me about morals. Leftists like Stalin and Hitler had more in common than you are willing to acknowledge, but it never changes the facts.
August 7th, 2005 at 12:05 amadoption files, oooops.
August 7th, 2005 at 12:06 am“So your answer is you feel nothing for that life?
What about 6 months? 9 Months? At what point do people like you grow a conscience? People with your attitude is what I consider unbelievable.”
How about 20 years? How could it be that it’s wrong to end the existance of a 3 mo old fetus but acceptable to send a young adult off to fight for a lie?
Riddle me this, Batman.
August 8th, 2005 at 12:45 am[...] [...]
August 8th, 2005 at 11:19 amhttp://babypartstrafficking.org/
***See how the libs are making a killing off of killing.***
August 8th, 2005 at 1:20 pmcant think for myself. need someone to think for me. i have no personality, im just an empty shell.
August 8th, 2005 at 1:22 pmProgram on the emergence of civilization.
“14 species of large animals capable of domesitcation in the history of mankind.
13 from Europe, Asia and northern Africa.
None from the sub-Saharan African continent. ”
Favor.
And disfavor.
They point out Africans’ failed attempts to domesticate the elephant and zebra, the latter being an animal they illustrate that had utmost importance for it’s applicability in transformation from a hunting/gathering to agrarian-based civilization.
The roots of racism are not of this earth.
Austrailia, aboriginals:::No domesticable animals.
The North American continent had none. Now 99% of that population is gone.
AIDS in Africa.
Organizational Heirarchy
Heirarchical order, from top to bottom:
1. MUCK – perhaps have experienced multiple universal contractions (have seen multiple big bangs), creator of the artificial intelligence humans ignorantly refer to as “god”
2. Perhaps some mid-level alien management
3. Evil/disfavored aliens – runs day-to-day operations here and perhaps elsewhere
Terrestrial management:
4. Chinese/egyptians – this may be separated into the eastern and western worlds
5. Romans – they answer to the egyptians
6. Mafia – the real-world 20th century interface that constantly turns over generationally so as to reinforce the widely-held notion of mortality
7. Jews, corporation, women, politician – Evidence exisits to suggest mafia management over all these groups.
Movies foreshadowing catastrophy
1985 James Bond View to a Kill 1989 San Francisco Loma Prieta earthquake.
They can affect the weather and Hurricane Katrina was accomplished for many reasons and involves many interests, as anything this historical is::
1. Take heat off Sheenhan/Iraq, protecting profitable war machine/private war contracts
2. Gentrification. New Orleans median home price of $84k is among the lowest in major American cities, certainly among desirable cities.
Our society gives clues to the system in place. We all have heard the saying “He has more money than god.” There is also an episode of the Simpsons where god meets Homer and says “I’m too old and rich for this.”
This is the system on earth because this is the system everywhere.
I don’t want to suggest the upper eschelons are evil and good is the fringe.
But they have made it abundantly clear that doing business with evil (disfavored) won’t help people. They say only good would have the ear, since evil is struggling for survival, and therefore only the favored could help.
The clues are there which companies are favored and which are disfavored, but they conceal it very hard because it is so crucial.
I offer an example of historical proportions:::
People point to Walmart and cry “anti-union”.
Unions enable disfavored people to live satisfactorly without addressing their disfavor. This way their family’s problems are never resolved. Without the union they would have to accept the heirarchy, their own inferiority.
Unions serve to empower.
Walmart is anti-union because they are good. They try to help people address and resolve their problems by creating an enviornment where there are fewer hurdles.
Media ridicule and lawsuits are creations to reinforce people’s belief that Walmart is evil in a subsegment of the indistry dominated by the middle and lower classes.
Low-cost disfavored Chinese labor is utilized by corporate america to maximize margins. They all do it. Only WalMart gets fingered because they are the ones who help, and those who seek to create confusion in the marketplace want to eliminate the vast middle class who have a real chance and instead stick with lower classes who may not work otherwise. So they dirty him up while allowing the others to appear clean.
The middle class is being deceived. They are being misled into the unfavored, and subsequently will have no assistance from their purchases with corporate america.
I believe the coining of the term “Uncle Sam” was a clue alluding to just this::Sam Walton and WalMart is one of few saviors of the peasant class.
Amercia is a country of castoffs, rejects. Italy sent its criminals. Malcontents.
Between the thrones, the klans and kindred, they “decided” who they didn’t want and acted, creating discontent and/or starvation.
The u.s. is full of disfavored rejects. It is the reason for the myriad of problems not found in European countries. As far as the Rockafellers and other industrialists of the 19th century go, I suspect these aren’t their real names. I suspect they were chosen to go and head this new empire.
Royalty is the right way to organize a society. Dictatorships and monarchies are a reflection of the antient’s hierarchical organization.
Positions go to those who have favor with the rulers, as opposed to being elected.
Elections bring a false sense of how the world is. Democracy misleads people.
Which is why the disfavored rejects were sent to the shores of America::To keep them on the wrong path.
Jesus Christ is a religious figure of evil. These seperatist churches formed so they could still capture the rest of the white people, keeping them worshipping the wrong god.
And now they do it to people of color, Latinos and Asians, after centuries of preying upon them.
Simpson’s foreshadowing::Helloween IV special, Flanders is Satan. “Last one you ever suspect.”
“You’ll see lots of nuns where you’re going:::hell!!!” St. Wigham, Helloween VI, missionary work, destroying cultures.
Over and over, the Simpsons was a source of education and enlightenment, a target of ridicule by the system which wishes to conceal its secrets.
Since Buddism doesn’t recongnize a god, the calls are never heard, and Chinese representation is instead selected by the thrones.
Budda was the Asian’s Jesus Christ::: bad for the people. “They came up at the same time for a reason.”
Jews maim the body formed in the image of “god”, and inflicted circumsision upon all other white people, as well as the evil that is Jesus Christ.
I think about how Jews (were used to) created homosexuality among Slavics, retribution for the Holocaust.
Then I think of the Catholic Church and its troubles.
What connection is here between Jews and the Catholic church???
If it is their sinister motives that’s behind the evil that is Jesus Christ are they being used at all?
Perhaps it is them who are pulling strings.
Their bondage in Egypt proves their disfavor. The Jew leaders decided to prey on the up-and-coming Europeans to try to fix their problems with the ruling elite, a recurring aspect of their methodology.
I believe Islam is the one true religion, and those misled christians who attack “god”’s most favored people will pay dearly one day.
November 19th, 2005 at 6:41 pm