Flip Flop: GITMO Detainees Not “Most Dangerous” After All?
Flip Flop: GITMO Detainees Not “Most Dangerous” After All?
All of the major papers carried a remarkable story this morning: the Bush administration is negotiating the transfer of almost 70% of the detainees at Guantanamo Bay to their countries of origin. As the Washington Post reported:
Senior U.S. officials said yesterday’s agreement is the first major step toward whittling down the Guantanamo population to a core group of people the United States expects to hold indefinitely. …
The United States considers all the remaining detainees to be medium- or high-risk and therefore not eligible for release once handed over, as has happened with about 70 detainees released earlier to about a dozen countries.
What’s notable about this story isn’t just the transfer itself — it’s that the transfer flies in the face of so much of what the administration has said about the Guantanamo detainees. Just a small sampling:
Rumsfeld: “They are among the most dangerous, best-trained vicious killers on the face of the earth. They are not POW’s.” [USA Today, 1/28/02]
Cheney: “These are the worst of a very bad lot. They are very dangerous. They are devoted to killing millions of Americans, innocent Americans, if they can.” [Slate]
Bush: “Make no mistake, however, that many of those folks being detained — in humane conditions, I might add — are dangerous people We want to learn as much as we can in this new kind of war about the intention and about the methods and about how these people operate. And they’re dangerous and they’re still around and they’ll kill in a moment’s notice.” [6/20/05]
If these people are such bloodthirsty, ferocious killers, then why are we sending so many back to their countries of origin where (in Afghanistan, at least) foreign governments will have “exclusive” control over them?
The answer, as Josh Marshall points out, is probably that the prisoners were never all that dangerous to begin with. The transfer is either incredibly stupid, or it’s a tacit admission that the administration was wrong all along about the vast majority of the Guantanamo detainees.
– Conor Clarke
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The fact is, all the really dangerous people aren’t at gitmo. They are at secret places all around the world where no rules apply.
August 5th, 2005 at 1:10 pmThe fact is, all the really dangerous people aren’t at gitmo. They are at secret places all around the world where no rules apply.
Yeah, like the White House.
August 5th, 2005 at 1:19 pmThis is positioning by the administration for the 2006 midterms. The “Abu Ghraib photos� are bound to be published in the following weeks,combined with the free fall of Iraq, and we have a scramble to stop the hemorrhaging. The main question being, can the administration make it believable to the public that we can now pull out of Iraq and close the shutters at Gitmo in time for the midterms? Will this be enough to save the GOP in 2006? Not if we let them.
August 5th, 2005 at 1:21 pmPictures of boys and girls being raped will soon hit the public.
August 5th, 2005 at 1:37 pmWelcome to the no-spin zone… okay I made a mistake, maybe most Gitmo-ers are innocent after all…
But I stand by my remarks that ACLU members are terrorists.
August 5th, 2005 at 1:52 pmBrian – so you hope.
#5 – agreed. The ACLU is the most dangerous organization in this country. They are terrorist sympathizers like most people in this blog.
August 5th, 2005 at 1:55 pmBrian – so you hope.
#5 – agreed. The ACLU is the most dangerous organization in this country. They are terrorist sympathizers like most people in this blog.
Comment by The Northeast Dilemma  August 5, 2005 @ 1:55 pm
LMA0!
August 5th, 2005 at 2:00 pmWhat does LMA0 mean?
August 5th, 2005 at 2:01 pmIt means you are an idiot.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:04 pmLaughing my ass off (LMAO)
August 5th, 2005 at 2:05 pmYak – better than a terrorist sympathizer who bends over backwards for the enemy in the hopes of getting power back in Washington.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:06 pmThank you Kranzy
August 5th, 2005 at 2:06 pmI don’t hope, NED. I think they need to be seen by prosecuters only. I’m terrified of them coming out. You’ve got to stop talking without thinking.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:07 pmMaybe he’s right…The ACLU “sympathized” with hillbilly heroin addict Rush Limbaugh’s right to privacy. Rush is a “terrist”. The ACLU sympathizes with terrists.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:07 pmPulling out of Iraq now or not until they can defend themselves against invading terrorists from other countries, would be stupid and show the world that we have become weak again, giving into liberals. That is what we did in Vietnam and we are not doing it again. We are not going to close down Gitmo either. Do you think that if we immediately pulled out of Iraq or closed down Gitmo, that these extremists would suddenly fall in love with us? They hate us. They have hated us for a long time. They want to kill as many of us as they can. What we have to do is take down either militarily or politically as many of these rogue dictatorships that harbor the terrorists as possible. The democratic party cannot be trusted to be steadfast. Period. That is why they will continue to lose elections.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:08 pmBrian – ok, enlighten me. Who was raped, who did it and where did you hear all of this from? In all seriousness, I have heard nothing about it.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:09 pmHey, Northeast D*ckhead… one example please where the ACLU defended someone’s right to be a terrorist.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:09 pmWe are more concerned about the homegrown “terrists”. The ones you can’t profile. The people like you and Timothy McVeigh and all the christo-fascists.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:11 pmDumb Fox – fighting searches on the subway!!!
Say for the sake of argument that these bastards do get a bomb on our subways, who is the first person liberals will blame – Bush, then Bloomberg, then NYPD. There are limits to everything including freedom when we are fighting for our survival. We live in Orwellian society not because of leaders, but because of our enemies.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:12 pmWe haven’t lost an election since 1988.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:12 pmYak – please. I hope Roe is overturned so all the liberal nutjobs come out of the woodwork. They’ll try to assasinate conservative justices. You ain’t seen nothing yet – the true wacko haters are on the left and the more power they lose, the worse it’s going to get. TRUST ME.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:13 pmTher’s no logical reason to be in Iraq. There’s no reason to stay.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:14 pmEntropy or Dictatorship will come to Iraq eventually. Entropy will be 2 states.
When Billmon starts asking questions, thinking what the rest of us have known for some time… that means the cat is not just out of the bag, it’s out, but it’s a dead cat, and it stinks to high heaven.
http://billmon.org/archives/002073.html
August 5th, 2005 at 2:15 pmYak – case in point. First sign of insanity is DENIAL. You just lost an election – you got your ass kicked at the polls.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:15 pmBrian – what about the rape charges? If you don’t have evidence to back up your claims – you’re slandering our military.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:16 pmThe trolls have become parodies of themselves. No need to parody them anymore. It wouldn’t be possible to poke fun at the already ridiculous, would it? I may have to test the limits of satire…
August 5th, 2005 at 2:17 pmYak – case in point. First sign of insanity is DENIAL.
Irony is alive and well!
August 5th, 2005 at 2:19 pmYak – I am not the one complaining that the election was stolen when you lost not the only Presidency, but four senate seats and five house seats. Were they stolen too? You’re seriously a f*in idiot if you think that. But, keep focused on the issues so Republicans can keep stealing elections. At this rate, the senate will be GOP filibuster proof in 2008.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:20 pm“We live in Orwellian society not because of leaders, but because of our enemies.”
I guess 1984 went over your head.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:21 pmTRUST ME.
The funniest thing he has ever said…
August 5th, 2005 at 2:21 pmYak – it’s too easy arguing with you. You’re living in an alternate universe right now – California, maybe.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:22 pmI guess 1984 went over your head.
Earthworms go over his head, when they are six feet under.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:23 pmYak – we’ll all be six feet under if people like you ever get back in power. You would sell this country’s soul to defeat Bush and help terrorists. It’s scary.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:26 pmCountries don’t have souls. Ask any fundie.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:27 pmAlways raped & The Northeast Dumbass
Can’t you idiots come up with better retorts than “ACLU little girl shrill cry�. You are like cats that puke up then help yourself to a second meal. It’s your frigin idiot savant that’s going to send these� terrorists� home fattened up with a new hate in their bellies from years of club cuba not the ACLU.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:29 pmPentagon Rejects Order to Release Abu Ghraib Abuse Images
by Brendan Coyne
Jul 25 – Facing a court-imposed deadline to release photographs and video documenting numerous instances of torture and abuse at the now infamous US-run Abu Ghraib detention facility in Iraq, lawyers for the Department of Defense Thursday sent the court a letter stating their intention to file papers explaining why it will not adhere to the judge’s orders, civil liberties groups announced Friday.
The legal brief explaining the reasoning behind the decision will be sealed, meaning most of the information will not be made public, the letter said.
People who have seen the videos, including members of Congress and reporter Seymour Hersh, have reported they include scenes involving far worse abuses than have so far reached the public, including rape and lewd acts committed against and in front of prisoners.
Google: content abu ghraib photos
August 5th, 2005 at 2:29 pmWhy are they considering this now? Within the last month, the Pentagon approved more millions to go to Halliburton for additional holding places for the detainees in Gitmo. We need to get our money back from Halliburton before they take the money and run.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:30 pmTexas Dems are an oasis in a desert of meat.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:32 pmAlways raped & The Northeast Dumbass
Can’t you idiots come up with better retorts than “ACLU little girl shrill cry�. You are like cats that puke up then help yourself to a second meal. It’s your frigin idiot savant that’s going to send these� terrorists� home fattened up with a new hate in their bellies from years of club cuba not the ACLU.
That’s what they want. They get a buzz from the adrenaline high, but don’t have the balls to go to the show themselves. They want a war, any war, as lng as someone else fights it. Like Bush, they are cowards. Just cheerleaders.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:36 pmYak,
If, and I am saying a big if, the elections were stolen in 2000 and in 2004, don’t you think if it were true, that it would be the single biggest story of the decade, possibly century? There doesn’t seem to be much talk about it anywhere except in think tanks like this one, where there apparently isn’t a whole lot of thinking going on. Somewhere, somehow, there has to be a news organization not controlled as you think by the right-wing establishment, willing to take it on. The fact that there is no press on it, tells me that the elections were not stolen. Democrats will never win again if they can’t put the election of 2000 behind them. Mark my words.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:37 pmThey have to make room there for the Bush administration, who should all be sent there “indefinitely.”
August 5th, 2005 at 2:37 pmhttp://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/080405S.shtml
Just another nail in the coffin – Americans of all political stripes should be DEEPLY ashamed of the behaviour of these people, whether they are “contractors” (mercenaries), CIA, FBI, military – whatever! Anyone who would rape a child should be prosecuted, publicly, to the full extent of the law.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:38 pmBrian – so it’s all about Abu Ghraib. I’m sure the media will get their way and release them, but the phrase Abu Ghraib has lost salience and so have the people pushing the story. I think you’re overestimating the impact. For some reason, I thought you were talking about little boys and girls, not suspected terrorists.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:41 pmAlways Wrong, you forget that the media was bought off before the vote was rigged. It is not in their best interest to report it. The story was HUGE on independent media, but you (and millions like you) didn’t turn on Pacifica. Or you would have been as outraged as we are. Your ignorance is only exceeded by your arrogance.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:41 pmNED – see if you had read (and comprehended) Orwell’s “1984″ you wouldn’t have made your comment.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:44 pmReally — try reading and/or listening a little — you’ll be surprised as what you can learn.
Nigel Tufnel: The numbers all go to eleven. Look, right across the board, eleven, eleven, eleven and….
August 5th, 2005 at 2:46 pmMarty DiBergi: Oh, I see. And most amps go up to ten?
Nigel Tufnel: Exactly.
Marty DiBergi: Does that mean it’s louder? Is it any louder?
Nigel Tufnel: Well, it’s one louder, isn’t it? It’s not ten. You see, most blokes, you know, will be playing at ten. You’re on ten here, all the way up, all the way up, all the way up, you’re on ten on your guitar. Where can you go from there? Where?
Marty DiBergi: I don’t know.
Nigel Tufnel: Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?
Marty DiBergi: Put it up to eleven.
Nigel Tufnel: Eleven. Exactly. One louder.
Marty DiBergi: Why don’t you just make ten louder and make ten be the top number and make that a little louder?
Nigel Tufnel: [Pause.] These go to eleven.
Sara,
You and so many of your liberal friends need therapy and a lot of it if you think that Bush stole the election both times. There is no way a story that huge wouldn’t have leaked by now. Its just not true and its not healthy for you to believe it anymore.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:47 pmMarie – I read 1984 thank you very much. The only thing about 1984 in America is the hateful liberal movement that wants to shove their humanistic views down the throats of everyone in this country. Try not being such a b*tch – it works wonder.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:49 pmHe did not steal the elections. He threw meat to the dogs. The dogs came a runnin’.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:49 pmNED “loves big brother”.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:50 pm#37 – Thanks for the reminder. We should all write our congressmen and demand a refund from Halliburton!
August 5th, 2005 at 2:51 pmMarie – yeah sure. Bitching about Halliburton worked wonders for you in the last election – LOSER. Maybe you should write your congressman and ask them how they plan win back some seats.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:52 pmAlways raped
August 5th, 2005 at 2:53 pmLiberal, liberal, gerbil, what are you going to pull out of your whackjob ass next. When you combine incoherence with rant, you get always get a castrated right-wing girl boy with crying red eyes.
Everyone here is always so nice – lol – why don’t you apply a filter if you don’t want to hear from us. The reason why you don’t I believe is, you’d be bored out of your mind. In addition, we are helping you to keep what little you have left of your sanity. Left alone, each one of you would feed off each other and your minds would literally turn totally to mush.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:58 pm#54
August 5th, 2005 at 3:00 pmEat your meat, Nigel.
The GITMO detainees are all innocent, no charges have been brought against any of them. They were bought and paid for by this immoral administration as a sign that they were ‘doing something’ about ‘terrorism.’And now it’s catching up with them so the detainees will be out-sourced and then released. They won’t forgive and forget their kidnapping, imprisonment and torture, of course, and are now and forever more our enemies, just like the Iraqis we’re kicking around.
Again, bought and paid for:
AP News: They fed them well. The Pakistani tribesmen slaughtered a sheep in honor of their guests, Arabs and Chinese Muslims famished from fleeing US bombing in the Afghan mountains. But their hosts had ulterior motives: to sell them to the Americans, said the men who are now prisoners at Guantanamo Bay. Bounties ranged from $3,000 to $25,000, the detainees testified during military tribunals, according to transcripts the US government gave The Associated Press to comply with a Freedom of Information lawsuit. A former CIA intelligence officer who helped lead the search for Osama bin Laden told AP the accounts sounded legitimate because US allies regularly got money to help catch Taliban and Al Qaeda fighters. Gary Schroen said he took a suitcase of $3 million in cash into Afghanistan to help supply and win over warlords.
August 5th, 2005 at 3:09 pmLiberals always think they are so intelligent but when asked why they are not in power, they say the election was stolen. For people to be so smart, you’d think they would have a better answer. Gosh, I hope I never get that smart.
August 5th, 2005 at 3:12 pm#57 “He did not steal the elections. He threw meat to the dogs. The dogs came a runnin’.”
Yer rivets is comprimized, Nigel.
August 5th, 2005 at 3:19 pmDon’t you think the 70% Gitmo prisoners are being released because it’s getting too “hot” for the administration? There are aditional photos and videos out that are unavailable to the public now because the Pentagon quashed them, but some who have seen them (Hersch, and others) say they are worse than the first ones. There is no way I would believe that the lowest ranking enlisted soldiers perpetrated any of this without explicit directives from on high, but sh-t always rolls downhill.
August 5th, 2005 at 3:22 pmThe world is exposing our hypocrisy at Gitmo and releasing 70% to other countries will hinder them from banding together against the US.
Don’t worry, always right, with your puppet-like repeating of the fascist mantra you’ll never have to worry about being smart. Actually knowing something requires some effort beyond the regurgitation of government propaganda.
August 5th, 2005 at 3:33 pmMarie
August 5th, 2005 at 3:34 pmExactly, it’s the tough talking girlboys at top who scapegoat the kids who too young to know better. Amazing that most of these idiot’s idea of service is a yellow sticker and trying to cover their lack of manhood.
“Liberals always think they are so intelligent but when asked why they are not in power, they say the election was stolen. For people to be so smart, you’d think they would have a better answer. Gosh, I hope I never get that smart.”
There are so many things wrong with these statements. Smart people are often moved aside in the world by the greedy, the evil, and the criminal. Saddam wasn’t the smartest man in Iraq, but he was evil just like you, and he was happy to do what it took to stay in power.
As for the election – your dismissive would hold weight if there wasn’t overwhelming mathematical evidence that proves you’re an idiot on this subject. People like you who feel insecure because you aren’t smart, always attack those smarter than yourself to try and psychologically tear them down and make yourself feel better. This is a common defense mechanism of insecure men who haven’t been successful in their lives.
As for ‘in power’, well I’m very empowered and successful in my own life – and I’m grateful to the economics of clinton for making that happen, and grateful that the idiocy of Bush didn’t cause me to lose it. So I’m happy to contribute back to the country, and prevent you and your fellow stupid fascists from flushing it down the toilet in your mad dash to dictatorship. Greedy men doing deceitful acts often cease power, and think this makes them smart – when in fact, it’s a stupid, selfish and greedy move. It never lasts, and they (you) always fall because of your own arrogance and hubris. You need to read more greek classics – it’s clear you are unaware of the archetypes that form the human condition, and in you’re unconscious life you live in a stupid self delusion…
August 5th, 2005 at 3:50 pmThey weren’t even picked up on the “battlefield”, guess we are sick of torturing them.
August 5th, 2005 at 3:53 pmNortheast,
In #52, you berate someone for suggesting that we try to stop Halilburton from cashing in on a contract that is not needed anymore since the detainee population in the gulag will not be that high soon. Do you realize that they are being paid by your government with your money? Do you like being cheated, screwed and used? Oh yeah I guess so if you voted for Bushie two times…pathetic…
August 5th, 2005 at 4:18 pmDilEnema,
It just goes to show how uninformed you tend to be when you shoot your mouth of on this site, not knowing about the REMAINING photos of torture, murder and rape from Abu Graihb. Try to keep up, will you? The rape is of adolescents by Iraqi security, under the DIRECT supervision of US agents. Meanwhile, the adolescents mother is forced to watch!
Don’t believe me? Just wait.
August 5th, 2005 at 4:25 pmbrain-noogie,
We can’t expect NED to be consistent, expecting a CONservative to be consistent, is like expecting a evangelical Christian to have compassion and not hate people – that only happens in fairie tells.
August 5th, 2005 at 4:26 pmSkid,
I think you turned NED on – it probably reminded him of when he was a boyscout master! Which badge did you earn NED for that?
August 5th, 2005 at 4:27 pmTorture is only used to satisfy sadistic perverted impulses of the captors – it isn’t useful for obtaining information from detainees. Anyone who thinks ‘abuse and force’ gets what you want out of someone has never raised children successfully. Considering how screwed up most CONservatives appear to be emotionally and socially, it’s no surprised they’d be clueless on this.
Hey NED, go watch nanny 911, and call your parents and tell them what crappers they are!
August 5th, 2005 at 4:30 pmEach freed detainee should get a signed copy of O’Really’s book as a parting gift.
You gotta sign, if you want to opine…
August 5th, 2005 at 4:41 pmThat would be considered further inhumane treatment…I think most of them would choose the attack dogs one more time.
August 5th, 2005 at 4:49 pmOne more bite on the groin, for old times sake?
August 5th, 2005 at 4:58 pmFinally Friday
On-Air blogs and a LOT more from the WB42 5:30 Report with Doug Krile. Enough reading to get you into the weekend.
August 5th, 2005 at 5:07 pmThe Repugs would NOT allow a bill that would have required a paper trial. If the GOP had no intention to rig the election – why not allow for paper trail? How do you defend that – huh NED? The Toledo Blade has written reports largely ignored by the mainstream media. The mainstream media is controlled by Republican pigs who care more about power and party than country. The Conyers report DOCUMENTS many inconsistencies and outright fraud in the election in both Ohio and Florida. As for the the detainees, we have been saying for a long time – many NOT all – should not be there. All we ever asked for – is give them a fair trail. Now after treating them like sh*t we are going to release them. Will anyone be surprised if they now seek revenge?
August 5th, 2005 at 7:06 pmmike,
Because they did rig the election, and folks like NED are happy if they did as long as he gets ‘his way’. It’s typical thinking of a fascist mind…
August 5th, 2005 at 7:07 pm#63 Jmcmaster — It is so awful, but I think you are right. If they don’t know anything they can’t tell you anything — d’ya think Rummy finally figured that out? Contrast the pending release of these guys and the comments from Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld that these are the scum, viscious killers, and enemies that deserved to be imprisoned without charge. Turns out now that they merely looked suspicious, and the heat is on at Gitmo to make changes, so poof! transfer 70% out.
August 5th, 2005 at 7:23 pmNo one is asking our leaders to explain themselves. So much for our so-called liberal press.
#16:
“‘The American public needs to understand we’re talking about rape and murder here. We’re not just talking about giving people a humiliating experience,’ Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham (news, bio, voting record) of South Carolina told reporters after Rumsfeld testified before the Senate Armed Services Committee. ‘We’re talking about rape and murder — and some very serious charges.’
http://politics.yahoo.com/s/ep/20050725/en_bpiep/pentagonblocksreleaseofabughraibimageshereswhy/nc:786
August 5th, 2005 at 10:43 pm[...] Wow, the Bush Administration pulls a huge flip-flop on Gitmo. After describing the prisoners as the worst of the worst whose detention was vital to homeland security, they now have plans to release almost 3/4 of them to their home countries. [...]
August 6th, 2005 at 3:44 am