Santorum’s Even Bigger Flip-Flop on Intelligent Design
Santorum’s Even Bigger Flip-Flop on Intelligent Design
Via Atrios, we see that Rick Santorum “differed Thursday with President Bush’s support for teaching an alternative to the theory of evolution known as ‘intelligent design’”:
I think I would probably tailor that a little more than what the president has suggested. … I’m not comfortable with intelligent design being taught in the science classroom.
Santorum Exposed points out that the senator authored an op-ed in 2002 arguing that “intelligent design is a legitimate scientific theory that should be taught in science classes.” But Santorum didn’t stop there. Not by a long shot.
Also in 2002, he “tried to attach an amendment to the No Child Left Behind Act that would encourage the teaching of intelligent design.” (The amendment failed, but the statement was adopted as part of the law’s Conference Report.)
In an even more extreme case, Santorum last year came out in favor of the Dover, Penn., school board’s controversial ID resolution, which read, “Students will be made aware of gaps/problems in Darwin’s theory and of other theories of evolution including, but not limited to, intelligent design. Note: Origins of Life is not taught.” During the debate over the resolution, one of the school board members appealed, “Two thousand years ago, someone died on a cross. Can’t someone take a stand for him?”
Not even the Discovery Institute, the most prominent ID advocacy group, supported the Dover resolution. This is an organization whose ‘99 fundraising appeal stated that the group “seeks nothing less than the overthrow of materialism and its cultural legacies,” and that the “proposition that human beings are created in the image of God is one of the bedrock principles on which Western civilization was built.”
Discovery Institute called the resolution “misguided” and said it should be “withdrawn and rewritten.” Santorum commended the Dover school board for “taking a stand and refusing to ignore the controversy.” That about says it all.
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Go ahead and teach “Intellagent Design” in a comparative religions class or a Sociology class. Don’t be bringing it into a science class when by definition, it isn’t a science at all.
August 5th, 2005 at 1:50 pmI actually agree with #1. I do think it needs to be taught - it exists and has shaped our culture. It doesn’t need to be taught as fact. But, evolution is not really taught as fact either.
August 5th, 2005 at 1:56 pmI’m urging my Senator to introduce a bill that teaches Intelligent design in science class, but ONLY if it teaches Jedi on the same page.
August 5th, 2005 at 1:56 pmLooks like Ricky’s trying to broaden the base a bit. His holy-roller act is getting old fast here in PA, and he knows it.
August 5th, 2005 at 1:58 pm#3 - I can see a day when children are forced to learn about Aniken Skywalker …..(sp)
August 5th, 2005 at 1:59 pm#4 - disagreed. Santorum’s not as vulnerable as most people think. AND after the Lt. Gov’s disgraceful actions, Rendell signing pay raises into laws and his sagging approval, Democrats better watch their back too.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:00 pmEvolution not taught as fact? Never studied biology, huh.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:15 pmDumb Fox - might be why they call it the “theory of evolution”….
August 5th, 2005 at 2:18 pmWhile they’re at it, they should also start teaching the “Stork Theory” of child delivery in Biology class as an alternative to that much disputed sexual reproduction theory.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:24 pm#4 or #6–anybody got any current poll numbers from PA? Does this winger have it made or not??
August 5th, 2005 at 2:26 pm#8 The term “theory” in science is far different from “theory” as we would use it is everyday casual conversation. (For instance Einstein’s Theory of Relativity)
August 5th, 2005 at 2:28 pm#1, If some want to teach ID in a philosophy or theology or mythology class, I don’t think I could object. I certainly do object to inserting ID in a class giving it equal status with scientific theory.
It’s called the theory of evolution because biologists are still debating whether evolution generally occurs gradually (classic Darwinism) or as a result of exogenous events that cause species to die out and others to fill the void.
Evolution, as such, isn’t in dispute.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:29 pmhttp://www.strategicvision.biz/political/pa_poll_0802.htm - GOP poll
http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x11379.xml?ReleaseID=810 - independant poll
Santorum is faring poorly head to head, but the campaign hasn’t started yet. Look at Rick’s job approval if you want to know what Casey (pro-life) is up against. Santorum will win.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:32 pmWhy don’t the Democrats cry flip-flop everytime a Republican does it?
August 5th, 2005 at 2:33 pm#9 - Toonguy - I like that. We could have the “toothfairy theory” the “Easter Bunny theory” we could have my childhood favorite for rain storms the “God is washing the floor in heaven” theory — or perhaps thunderstorms as the “Angels are bowling” theory. Of course I outgrew all those by the age of 8, but that’s about the mental age of those who would like to place their theories in the science class.
Dumb Fox - spare me. It’s still a theory. No one knows definitively the origin of humans. That being said, you can believe in God and evolution if you ask me.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:34 pmMarie - apparently, you didn’t outgrow venomous hatred for ideological opponents by the age of 8 or you wouldn’t be belittling people that believe in creationism the way you are. Maybe you should outgrow LOSING so you can actually ensure your policies get legislated since you’re losing the Court in the next few years.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:37 pmNED - You just can’t open your brain to learn a little can you?
August 5th, 2005 at 2:40 pmThe term “theory� in science is far different from “theory� as we would use it is everyday casual conversation. (For instance Einstein’s Theory of Relativity)
Try listening to others - you might learn something - it’s not painful and actually beneficial - but in your case, only when taken in small doses.
NED is an idiot. He thinks the missing link refers to a hominid. It doesn’t. He’s been hunting for the Sasquatch too long.
According to the theory of evolution, all four-limbed animals - everything from human beings to dinosaurs - are descended from a single creature, the first to crawl from water on to land. Yet finding that vital bridge between fish and four legs has proven elusive. A paleontological tour-de-force and suspenseful scientific detective story, “The Missing Link” follows a trail of clues from Pennsylvania to Greenland, including the crucial rediscovery of a tiny fossil jaw that had lain unnoticed in a dusty museum drawer for decades.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/link/
We know where humans came from. Monkeys like NED.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:42 pmSome of us just evolved. He never will.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:43 pmMarie - try not being ignorant of other people’s culture and I’ll listen a little. Your invective towards people of faith is SCARY.
There are people that beleive creationism and evolution are not mutually exclusive. Do you believe in God, Marie?
Liberals only seem to ever worry about “morals” or God when they are trashing the war effort or defending vicious murderers on death row. It’s disgusting.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:45 pm1. Intelligent design goes to our geological world, as well as the biological one. In the western part of our country, unlike in other parts, the evolution of geological forms as a result of various physical phenomena — sedimentation, heat, pressure, water erosion etc. — are in front of us for all to see, in micro- and macro-formations, and intelligent design is clearly a joke.
2. Why all this focus on another stupid Repub? Aren’t there more important issues in the universe?
August 5th, 2005 at 2:48 pmSeen 2001? That’s NED and his ilk. The early hominids with the tapir’s femur… Let the Poor Man say it:
So I think that this new fondness for the photo montage (and the comic book) is, all things considered, a step backwards, and I fear that we may soon devolve to a point where the war cheerleaders simply re-enact the Dawn of Man scenes of 2001, leaping and screeching and waving a tapir’s femur in a morally clear manner. Or maybe we already passed that stage and I missed it.
He says it so well…
http://www.thepoorman.net/ 2005/ 08/ 04/ fairness-balance-operation-american-freedom/
August 5th, 2005 at 2:50 pmI wonder what Hillary thinks about creationism.
I can’t wait til Democrats lose another election. You people are so F*in out of touch, it’s pathetic.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:51 pmFaith isn’t culture. Religion isn’t culture.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:52 pm“No one knows definitively the origin of humans.”
No sh*t, Sherlock. Got anything else to blow us away with?
August 5th, 2005 at 2:52 pm#24 - faith and religion are components of culture, most certainly.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:54 pmHey NED,
If you believe this:
“That being said, you can believe in God and evolution if you ask me.”
Then you don’t fit into the NeoCon mold. You will be culled from their numbers as well.
The NeoCons believe that the Earth is only 5,000 years old. They don’t believe that Dinosaurs ever existed. That is pretty funny when you consider that both Dragons and Unicorns are mentioned in Genesis in the King James version of the Bible.
If we are to follow NeoCon propoganda that the Bible is a literal translation of the word of God, then you tell me who is living in a fantasy world.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:55 pmSpudge - that’s just plain false. They don’t fit in the left’s version of the neocon mold.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:56 pmIf one wishes to have a scientific discussion of beliefs, they can have it in Anthropology class, where it can be compared with those of other cultures. When one is discussiong Biology, it is best to stick with data gathered from observation and not let it be clouded by one’s beliefs.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:56 pmHere’s what Jefferson thought of your “faith”…
Thomas Jefferson:
I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth.
SIX HISTORIC AMERICANS,
by John E. Remsburg, letter to William Short
Jefferson again:
Christianity…(has become) the most perverted system that ever shone on man. …Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and importers led by Paul, the first great corrupter of the teaching of Jesus.
More Jefferson:
The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for enslaving mankind and adulterated by artificial constructions into a contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves…these clergy, in fact, constitute the real Anti-Christ.
Jefferson’s word for the Bible?
Dunghill.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:58 pm“Marie - try not being ignorant of other people’s culture and I’ll listen a little. Your invective towards people of faith is SCARY.”
And yet your ignorance that people of faith disagree with your bigotted ignorance shows your hate filled christian taliban narrow view of the world. There are creation ideologies that disagree with the christian ones, and ironically other creation myths like those from hinduism don’t require one to disregard physics or science in order to believe them..
“There are people that beleive creationism and evolution are not mutually exclusive. Do you believe in God, Marie?”
They are actually. Creationism is claptrap that every piece of validated science disagrees with. You can believe in creation myths all you want, but the christian one is bunk.
“Liberals only seem to ever worry about “moralsâ€? or God when they are trashing the war effort or defending vicious murderers on death row. It’s disgusting. ”
And CONservatives only seem to worry about morals when it involves taking away the civil rights of others, preventing minorities from being treated fairly, justifying slavery or rationalizing their own thievery in a cloud of ‘good intentions’.
CONservative talk morals, Liberals live them. But then again an immoral person like yourself is too unconscious to even know what morals actually are…
August 5th, 2005 at 2:58 pmAlso Adams:
The doctrine of the divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:58 pm#24 - faith and religion are components of culture, most certainly.
Comment by The Northeast Dilemma  August 5, 2005 @ 2:54 pm
just like crime and deviance
August 5th, 2005 at 2:59 pmNo NED, you are incorrect. My mom is a NeoCon along with all of her blue haired friends. You need to find out about the people you are propping up.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:59 pmHere’s Thomas Paine:
I would not dare to so dishonor my Creator God by attaching His name to that book (the Bible).
Among the most detestable villains in history, you could not find one worse than Moses. Here is an order, attributed to ‘God’ to butcher the boys, to massacre the mothers and to debauch and rape the daughters. I would not dare so dishonor my Creator’s name by (attaching) it to this filthy book (the Bible).
It is the duty of every true Deist to vindicate the moral justice of God against the evils of the Bible.
Accustom a people to believe that priests and clergy can forgive sins…and you will have sins in abundance.
The Christian church has set up a religion of pomp and revenue in pretended imitation of a person (Jesus) who lived a life of poverty.
August 5th, 2005 at 3:00 pmFinally let’s hear from James Madison:
What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical establishments had on civil society? In many instances they have been upholding the thrones of political tyranny. In no instance have they been seen as the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty have found in the clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not need the clergy.
Madison objected to state-supported chaplains in Congress and to the exemption of churches from taxation. He wrote:
Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.
August 5th, 2005 at 3:00 pmI’m observing from Western PA only, with “oberving” being the operative term. The more Santorum speaks, the loonier he sounds, and the more nearly the “Christian kook” appellation seems to fit. He only kept Toomey at bay by steering left; and now that Specter’s near-death experience has shown him the light on several issues, Santorum comes off looking even more unhinged by comparison. The vast middle-state between Pittsburgh and Philly may still go for him, but he really needs to mute his flaky religionism and 1890s take on social issues in order to win educated urbanites.
August 5th, 2005 at 3:01 pm“I actually agree with #1. I do think it needs to be taught - it exists and has shaped our culture. It doesn’t need to be taught as fact. But, evolution is not really taught as fact either.”
Actually evolution is fact, whereas creationism has been disproven. But considering that NED has drunk the koolaid and is too lazy to even read a single scientific research paper, I’m not surprised he’s such a stupid ignorant rube…
There are tree rings in the bristlecone pine forests that are 11,000 years old. There are petrified tree forest rings that have been aligned and go back HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of years.
Every piece of verifiable scientific data proves evolution in the same way that astronomy proved the makeup of the solar system centuries ago. Just because NED is as stupid as the pope who denied science and tried Galileo as a heretic doesn’t change that fact. These ignorant bigots turn of their ‘intelligence’ anytime facts become uncomfortable for them, and they’d rather hide behind false morals, myths and irrational claptrap than face reality. It’s a delusion they happily cling to!
August 5th, 2005 at 3:03 pmSpudge,
Lots of little old ladies were fascist during the 30s, but they didn’t run the country. The NeoCon version of fascism attracts all sorts of disgruntled, ignorant, greedy, fearful and angry people from lots of walks of life. But stupid fat white men who are fearful of women seem to be the base - I’m guessing you’re the foundation…
August 5th, 2005 at 3:05 pmThe Spice Girls are a component of culture, and about as popular and important as “faith and religion” in the lng term scheme of things. It will be the garbage, the refuse of the everyday and mundane that will fascinate the archeologists 10K years from now. The stuff that got thrown away. 0ld temples are easy.
August 5th, 2005 at 3:05 pmSpudge,
I meant that to read NED, not you - sorry, I need a nap ;(
August 5th, 2005 at 3:05 pmRyan - why don’t you start writing things and signing my name to them again.
Liberals defend the killing of near term babies so NO they do not live morally. Any group of people who would defend a third term abortion is disgusting. They defend vicious murderers and terrorists. Everything is morally relative to them.
The only ignorant bigots in this blog are people like Ryan who would kill a baby, but fret over the treatment of terrorist detainees.
August 5th, 2005 at 3:07 pmIt’s all good.
Get some sleep. We need to awake and ready to fight the good fight.
August 5th, 2005 at 3:07 pm#31 Ryan - I tip my hat to you!
August 5th, 2005 at 3:07 pmThose who use faith to prevent themselves from seeking facts are the same idiots that use faith instead of medical treatment. Faith may be useful when you don’t have facts, but to disregard facts in favor of faith shows complete and utter stupidity! Thanks NED for informing us of exactly HOW stupid you are. You must REALLY be a delimma in the north east, with all of its educated elite. What do you do, pump gas for a living?
August 5th, 2005 at 3:07 pmHe gone…
August 5th, 2005 at 3:08 pmIt is not about defending the “terrorist” (hasn’t been proven) detainees you moron. It is about the Bush administration going against the Geneva Convention and approving the torture of the detainees.
August 5th, 2005 at 3:09 pmWhat kind of hat you wearing, Marie?
August 5th, 2005 at 3:09 pmYak, I love your reminding me of some of those great quotes from Jefferson and Paine. Those men had great minds.
August 5th, 2005 at 3:10 pmNEDs arguments amount to “Dogs are animals, cats are animals, therefore Dogs are Cats.”
August 5th, 2005 at 3:10 pmI have to go - I can’t take all this liberal bullsh*t anymore today. Don’t kill any conservatives while I’m gone (or babies!!)
August 5th, 2005 at 3:12 pmThe whole point of intelligent design is to sneak it into school as an alternative to the theory of evolution — in science classes. If it doesn’t pass muster as science what’s the point? If they want alternatives to the theory of evolution in school, why not insist on alternatives to the bible in church?
August 5th, 2005 at 3:12 pmI think those quotes fried his circuitry. He is trying to debunk them. Too bad they are legit.
August 5th, 2005 at 3:14 pmNED,
You’re the war and hate monger - why is that you always bring up killing? You really need to see a psychiatrist over all of this projection and hatred before it destroys what’s left of your pea brain…
As for bull$hit - well that’s all you spew, how could ever recognize anyone elses over your own stench? Everytime someone points out the facts, and that you’re wrong, like that wimp novak you take your balls and leave. You’re such a pathetic bag of crap!
August 5th, 2005 at 3:14 pm#48 - Yak, you and Ryan are on the same page as I. We are all wearing our white hats.
August 5th, 2005 at 3:16 pmHere’s a URL that should make the difference between layman use of the word “theory” and the scientific use. It’s so simple even NED might be able to understand. But I don’t know - I might be giving him too much credit.
http://www.wilstar.com/theories.htm
August 5th, 2005 at 3:17 pmI like the hats. It’s that whole 40s, film noir thing.
August 5th, 2005 at 3:17 pmHey DilEnema,
Were there dinosaurs on Noah’s Ark?
August 5th, 2005 at 3:18 pmOr what do you think of the remnants of leg and foot bones found inside whales?
August 5th, 2005 at 3:19 pmYes, but Fred and Wilma ate them.
August 5th, 2005 at 3:20 pmI hear they ate Barney and Betty, too… it was a long cruise.
August 5th, 2005 at 3:21 pmAnd God said unto Noah, “Yaba-daba-doooo!”
August 5th, 2005 at 3:23 pmPerhaps Jonah was swallowed by a pleosaur, not a whale?
August 5th, 2005 at 3:25 pmOh, dear, NED’s gone (just like backflush), but he never contributed much anyhow, except ignorant invective.
August 5th, 2005 at 3:28 pm“Ryan - why don’t you start writing things and signing my name to them again.”
It wasn’t me, but it was funny. I don’t stoop to that sort of thing, I would never doubt your willingness to do this however…
“Liberals defend the killing of near term babies so NO they do not live morally. ”
You didn’t read any of that thread last night where I showed the unscientific, irrational and bigotted nature of these lying remarks did you? I already corrected your fascist buddy FBA on this lie, why do all you of you stupid CONservatives never read and make me keep repeating myself.
28 weeks are alpha waves. Alpha waves are how we determine when a ‘person’ is dead or alive for health care purposes. At 28 weeks, a ‘baby’ is viable and abortions do not occur as it’s a premie. Before that point, the brain isn’t developed, you have a ‘fetus’ not a baby. Unless you’re willing to commit your sperm as ‘babies’ and give them rights, your terminology is just propaganda - not scientific.
Aborting a fetus, and killing a baby are completely different - in the same way that removing life support on a vegetable is not killing them.
This is a point of fact and science, not voodoo, and superstition - which is where you only seem to have any expertise or comfort.
“Any group of people who would defend a third term abortion is disgusting. They defend vicious murderers and terrorists. Everything is morally relative to them.”
First of all 3rd term ‘abortions’ are governed by states, and they are not protected by roe v wade. But then again a lying propagandist wouldn’t know this would they? Of course they wouldn’t they’re delusional crazy people like yourself.
Just because you keep repeating a lie to yourself NED doesn’t make it true - but it does make you crazy!
“The only ignorant bigots in this blog are people like Ryan who would kill a baby, but fret over the treatment of terrorist detainees.”
Actually I wouldn’t kill a baby, I wouldn’t even have an abortion - I’m a man you retard! As for the rest of your statements, they are so fraught with stupidity, ignorance and arrogance I hardly know where to begin? Your framing language is so simplistic and irrational it reminds me of the old ‘do you still beat your wife’ line of questioning. It shows you’re so desperate to make yourself feel better, that instead of a factual debate, you prefer lies and vicious slander. I’m glad to see all of your irrational and insanity defense mechanisms in play, it means I’ve challenged you in a way that you have REAL way to cope with other than to go climb into your whole and pretend it never happened. You’re such a pathetic little worm!!!
Now as for the specifics that you said.
1) You imply a fetus is a baby - a lie, and a scientifically ungrounded statement. A healthy baby doesn’t require life support - a fetus always does. A baby has a NeoCortex and a consciousness - a fetus does not. A baby will breathe, suckle and survive outside the womb, a fetus will not. The fact that you can’t distinguish basic scientific facts shows that you’re an uneducated idiot unfit to even discuss the topic.
2) Then you make the slanderous claim that I ‘fret’ over ‘terrorist detainees’ as though I somehow want to protect terrorists. That’s ironic coming from someone who defends the administration that trained and funded those very terrorists! I fret over the lack of due process - an american value - but not one shared by fascists like you. I fret over the fact that many of the gitmo detainees who were kidnapped and eventually released were done so because they were innocent. I fret over the fact our government uses torture, although it’s a completely unreliable means of gathering information. I fret because the patriot act allows them to detain WITNESSES and not criminals - and prevents those witnesses from having an attorney. I fret because I’m trying to protect the civil liberties of ALL americans - even you, and yet you are so criminally insane that you can’t see this. I fret because so many people are duped into becoming fascist propagandists like you out of their knee jerk fear, and stupidity!
I fret not because you’re an idiot - but because you’re such a stupid arrogant idiot that you actually think you’re right, when every piece of scientific, factual and historical information proves you’re wrong. I fret because in spite of all of that you’re too stupid to see how stupid you are!
August 5th, 2005 at 3:29 pm“If they want alternatives to the theory of evolution in school, why not insist on alternatives to the bible in church?”
Evolution is not a theory - it passed that point decades ago. Theories are unprovable hypothesis, and yet every piece of evidence they go looking for to prove or disprove evolution proves it. They create lab experiments - and guess what it’s proven. They go to the fossil record, and guess what, it’s proven. They review DNA and guess what, it’s proven.
The only people who don’t know it’s proven are the ones who don’t go look at the facts, and instead allow some media or right wing claptrap rube in a pointy hat tell them a lie…
August 5th, 2005 at 3:33 pmHuman beings and intelligent design is an oxymoron anyway. So is Rush Limbaugh.
August 5th, 2005 at 3:34 pmDon,
All NED ever contributes is the same thing that all of these CONservatives contribute - propaganda. They don’t fact check, they claim that other sources are biased - and yet it NEVER seems to dawn on them that maybe THEIR sources are biased. And they never seem to get that if you are not a half wit you can go to the RAW DATA and figure it out yourself and ignore the filters. But since they’re intellectually lazy in the first place, that’s why they’re so easily swayed by propaganda that tells them a message they want to hear, and that fits their bigotted and stupid preconceptions…
The best lies of CONservatives are always ‘based’ on a fact, but usually the conclusions are exactly opposite of what the real data says.
For instance they all claim that gore lost florida in 2000 because the MSM told them so. Ironically the $900,000 independent study that formed the basis of this media conclusion is actually available - and guess what the data says the exact opposite!
http://www.norc.uchicago.edu/fl/index.asp
And there’s an analysis of the data at:
http://archive.democrats.com/display.cfm?id=181
And I guarantee you that these idiots would never review the independent data - and if they did, they’d never allow themselves to admit the truth because it would shatter their delusion. They prefer to live in ignorance, because it’s more comfortable for them to hate from there…
August 5th, 2005 at 3:38 pm“Human beings and intelligent design is an oxymoron anyway. ”
If the design is intelligent, why do men have nipples, and humans have appendixes? And why are 99% of all species that ever lived extinct? If the design were so intelligent, I can’t see why it would be so inefficient and random. But there I go again using my brain - and we all know that one must turn off their brain in order to believe in this right wing stuff…
August 5th, 2005 at 3:40 pmYes Ryan, that reminds me, why do humans only use 10% of our brains? Yet another design flaw.
August 5th, 2005 at 4:04 pmAnd the cocyx/tailbone? Noooo, that couldn’t be a remnant signifier of evolution.
Maybe Little Rickie had a brainfart/moment of clarity.
August 5th, 2005 at 4:08 pmFeeding tubes are only for white fundamentalist christian women - dying american troops need not apply!
http://www.channel3000.com/news/4812652/detail.html
These guys are such lying hypocrits!
August 5th, 2005 at 4:20 pmI think Santorum’s existence pretty much disproves intelligent design.
August 5th, 2005 at 4:21 pmGary,
Good one :)
August 5th, 2005 at 4:27 pmHey did you hear about the lady in VA who gave birth while in a coma due to a stroke?
After the baby was healthy enough to be born they pulled the plug on the brain dead mom.
Where’s the outrage!
August 5th, 2005 at 4:32 pmI think the diversity of life proves there is not one intelligent designer, but many. We need to teach polytheism in schools!
August 5th, 2005 at 4:39 pmI think we should only teach what we know to be factual in schools.
August 5th, 2005 at 4:45 pmWhen I was in school, they didn’t teach us jack. I had a creationist biology teacher, who honestly did not believe life has a common anscestor.
August 5th, 2005 at 4:57 pmMandatory sunday School for all neocons, 7 days a week!
August 5th, 2005 at 4:58 pmPeople just need to get away from the city lights and count falling falling stars. Everything you need to know is there.
August 5th, 2005 at 5:05 pmSusan: How about language, is that factual? Creative writing, phys ed, theater, music? We go to school for an education, not just to be ‘taught.’ So, why not a course on mythology? I happen to like the Indian coyote stories best of all.
August 5th, 2005 at 5:05 pmcynical,
Ignorance is bliss, and the right wing rides on a cloud of bliss!
August 5th, 2005 at 5:05 pmDon, I didn’t say take creativity out of schools, I just don’t think religion or mythology should be cluttering up the education process. Learn that on your own time if it interests you.
Math scores are still below an acceptable level and clutter is the reason for it.
August 5th, 2005 at 5:12 pmSusan, math scores are unacceptable to whom? The government — so they can further robotize kids? And leave more kids behind?
Americans are the most successful, creative people in the history of mankind, and we didn’t do it with mastery of Algebra. We did it, in so many fields, with our system of open, locally-controlled public schools and private enterprise. If the quadratic equation means that much to you, you probably haven’t given much thought to the real skills and abilities that people need to be successful, and specifically, in this discussion, the myths that power a lot of people through their lives.
How much Algebra do you use in your life? Will Algebra help you impeach Bush, or do you need skills in organizing, motivating, and goal achievement? And a strong foundation in ethics and morality wouldn’t hurt, which can come from mythlogy/religion.
August 5th, 2005 at 5:40 pmAlgebra sure helps keeping the space shuttle afloat.
Algebra also does wonders for money management. I need to save $X every year until retirement in Y years. If Y is known, what is X? That’s algebra.
Algebra could help Bush write a budget that pays down the national debt to a sane level.
If you don’t use algebra in your daily life, you’re probably one of the majority of Americans in debt. The lack of algebra in daily life is a big problem in this country.
August 5th, 2005 at 6:01 pmThe space shuttle? Gee, that’s a priority in my life.
Americans don’t save money, so Algebra is useless for that.
“Algebra could help Bush” — now there’s a dumb justification for nation-wide Algebra testing.
How does lack of Algebra translate into debt? I always blamed those blank checks they send me every month.
August 5th, 2005 at 6:16 pmMore on Bush and “Intelligent Design”/Creationism lite: http://dearkitty.modblog.com/ ?show=blogview&blog_id=699184
August 5th, 2005 at 6:31 pmDon, You are no engineer, huh?
Math is the universal language. When we finally meet aliens it is the only language we will both be able to communicate with.
Everything is built with math. I know it isn’t everyones favorite subject but you sir are a blowhard.
August 5th, 2005 at 6:32 pmdearkitty - i hope you were playing LIVE and had No Woman No Cry come on next. Great albumn.
August 5th, 2005 at 6:34 pmYou earn $X. You spend $Y. Your credit card debt is $Z.
Make all those figures add up to where $Z = 0. That is algebra. That’s all the lessons you get for free.
Republicans don’t need math because they don’t build things. They leech off the builders in society with their magic wand of “supply side market forces” and “tax incentives.”
August 5th, 2005 at 6:53 pmDon, It seems a bit regressive to demean sciences and humanities as valuable classes. We need well-rounded, educated kids. Our kids today don’t know history, and even less geography. Social studies would help them understand different cultures and mores. Literature, art and music also develop observation and thinking skills, as well as adding to the study of history and development of societies. Creationism is OK to teach in a mythology class or philosophy or theology or anthropology (all these are humanities) but it cannot be taught in conjunction with science because it is not science.
August 5th, 2005 at 7:08 pmComment is exactly right — math is universal — it is a communication that everyone in the world can understand. In children it teaches logical thinking and reasoning, in adults, it is the key to development of new technology and ideas. Don’t display provincial ignorance - it doesn’t become you.
August 5th, 2005 at 7:11 pmThe earth is 6000 years old! Fossils are there because the devil wants to tempt us! Moses lived 900 years! God made this imper……PERFECT world in six days! All hail god, or else you must be a SATANIST!
August 5th, 2005 at 7:28 pmMarie, I didn’t demean sciences and humanities. I did indicate that there’s too much emphasis on math (Algebra — not basic math). Some kids just can’t do it, and even though they might be great artists or leaders or musicians or communicators in several languages, the system, as it is now set up, will typecast them as dummies for life. I was not in this category, I loved math and was good at it and took about as much as one could take, up through partial differential equations, but it is just not everyone’s cup of tea. If a student would rather get deeply into mythology, I say go for it, and be successful at something. I’ve tried really hard to learn to play the mandolin, and I just can’t get it, but I’m not stygmitized for life as these Algebra failures will be. Finally, the idea that math teaches logic and reasoning is a disproven concept, and if math is the key to new ideas then creativity is in trouble.
August 5th, 2005 at 8:17 pmThe Space SHuttle is a way for corporations to launch their multi-billion dollar satellites into space using taxpayer money. That is all it is, that is all it was designed for. I am tired of paying for that out dated piece of crap. I have nothing against exploring space, but we don’t do that or should I say NASA does not do that. Like I would ever get to go to space. Heh, yeah right.
I would support spending those billions on getting to Mars, like Bush promised, but that is not going to happen. Too many of his business buddies need their satellites put into orbit.
August 5th, 2005 at 8:55 pmMan am I glad I don’t live anywhere near Dover any more ( I used to live a bit further south in the same county) then again things aren’t much better in Florida but I am working on it.
August 5th, 2005 at 9:17 pmWhy is there so much resistance to this design idea?
I see this as a movement to put the study of Alien Design into our high school classrooms and I wholly support it.
There is much more evidence to support the theory of Alien Design as a compliment to evolution than anything else – it’s even referenced in the Bible.
What were those “Chariots of Fire” that flew angels up into the sky?
Were they spacecraft? Jet aircraft? Shuttle craft headed back to the Mothership?
Whether you call it intelligent design or Alien Design (preferred), it needs to be studied. Of course they would create us in their own image. Of course they would experiment with artificial insemination of the species.
The government needs to release all the information they’ve been hiding about spacecraft, alien encounters and evidence they’ve suppressed over the years so that high school students from Kansas to Utah can learn from it.
I don’t understand why this discussion hasn’t focused solely on this.
I would like to see a Daily Show expose on this topic so the truth can get out.
Let’s all help to put Alien Design into the discussion so the American people can decide.
August 5th, 2005 at 9:35 pmI’m just commenting on the argument from a few hours ago (I just read it), about the whole algebra thing. I am a civil engineer, and I can tell you from first hand experience that if it were not for such basic forms of mathematics, such as Algebra, and Calculus, I would most definately not be able to do my job. I use these things every day of my life. If it were not for these basic forms of math the bridges that you go over everyday would not be there, or at least would not be able to support your vehicle, or substantial amounts of winds, ice, water flow (flooding), extreme heat, and so on and so on. And the same goes for buildings. And yes Don, algebra is a very basic form of math. The world could not run without it, whether I’m talking about banking or engineering. Everyone needs to know algebra if they expect to be anywhere near successful in the managing of their money.
August 5th, 2005 at 11:15 pmBullshit.
August 5th, 2005 at 11:30 pmIn one of the biology courses I was taking at university I came across this beautiful quote;
“Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution”.
That quote stuck with me because without the theory of evolution (it’s just called a theory, it has in fact been proven on a small scale via flatworms/mice/fruitflies/dogs) every change and characteristic of an animal or plant makes no sense.
“Why on earth does this plant have 5 petals while it’s relation on the next island have 6??”
I GUESS you can say that GOD did it. But if we use occams razor (simplist reason is usually the right one), it doesn’t make ANY sense to assume some divine being came down and messed around with carbon chains and nucleotides.
That leaves us with only empirical evidence to work with, and everything so far supports evolution over time.
Anyhow, I rant… Sure we don’t know how the molecules of life self organized but we’re working on it.
I also agree that intelligent design should be taught in a philosophy course but leave it out of science.
August 6th, 2005 at 1:40 amI agree with #96.
August 6th, 2005 at 8:43 amNo discussion of intelligent design should occur without alien design theory being included.
Intelligent design is nebulus, vague…”we don’t know who did it, but we think it was a guy with the huge fingernails”…
Alien Design is more specific. I’m surprised Intelligent Design people don’t include Alien Design in on their argument. They’re missing the boat.
I agree with Area #51. We are the product of aliens. I just saw Alien Vs. Predator. Man it was cool! Laura let me watch it twice if I promised to read my Bible after lunch.
August 6th, 2005 at 9:57 amThe Space SHuttle is a way for corporations to launch their multi-billion dollar satellites into space using taxpayer money. That is all it is, that is all it was designed for. I am tired of paying for that out dated piece of crap. I have nothing against exploring space, but we don’t do that or should I say NASA does not do that. Like I would ever get to go to space. Heh, yeah right.
I would support spending those billions on getting to Mars, like Bush promised, but that is not going to happen. Too many of his business buddies need their satellites put into orbit.
Comment by SpudgeBoy  August 5, 2005 @ 8:55 pm
SpudgeBoy is forgetting that the shuttle is our Neo Con Carne escape pod after you dumb city slickers figure out you been hustled by us neo corp cowboys.
August 6th, 2005 at 10:01 amJoining late so sorry if I repeat any ideas.
1) This agrument about teaching ID is much like prayer in school. If you want prayer in school, send you children to a parochial school of your faith, same with ID. Why otherwise burden the rest of the public with your particular ideals. If you want to avoid the debate altogether, send your child to a private school with ideals close to your own.
2) I can’t take credit for this but saw it as a post to a TP blog earlier in the week and thought it was brilliant. “If 90% of the creatures that walked the earth are now extinct, the Design couldn’t have been very Intelligent.”
Yak… loved the research you posted on the forefathers writings on christianity and the bible, nice work.
August 6th, 2005 at 10:49 amDave B #103
August 6th, 2005 at 10:57 amYou make an excellent point about teaching certain subjects in selected private schools.
The only problem I see on the horizon with that is that the wealthy (read Republican/conservtive) will continue to reduce support (taxes) for the public schools and encourage vouchers (tax credits) for private schools, thereby giving the families with power and money the ability to advance their own agenda.
Marie,
Your point was considered as I posted. I suppose it depends on your location in the country. I’m lucky, in the east coast blue states, liberal/democrats can find progressive private schools. The same would not be true in the south or mid-west. Vouchers will just bring all the issues at public schools to private schools. People of means will just move on to something else for selective education. I choose to send my child to a private school for a variety of reasons none that deal with religion or prejudice.
However, your observation and this response are arguments why ID, prayer, ect. have no place in public schools. This is where the taxpayers dollars are intended to educate everyone regardless of personal background or ideology.
Oh!, just to keep with the Blog subject, Santorum is a dangerous self-centered egotist. Like all other neocons, he’ll say or do anything to keep his ideology in the spotlight. Hopefully, we will find a few more Obamas for the rest of the country to rally behind in 2006 and 2008.
August 6th, 2005 at 11:30 amNo one says you cannot pray in school. The public schools, funded by government tax dollars, may not require prayer as part of the funded programs. Kids can pray to their hearts content. They can even gather in groups during recess or lunch and pray their brains out. Let them start with prayer, ID and soon your tax dollars will be going to glossalalia (speaking in tongues) and snake handling as course curriculum.
August 6th, 2005 at 1:52 pmThe only problem I see on the horizon with that is that the wealthy (read Republican/conservtive) will continue to reduce support (taxes) for the public schools and encourage vouchers (tax credits) for private schools, thereby giving the families with power and money the ability to advance their own agenda.
That’s what it’s all about Marie. That’s it in a nutshell and it has nothing to do with Jesus.
August 6th, 2005 at 1:54 pm“Intelligent Design” is a New Age term –– so is it they want to put new age teachings into science classes? How did the crazy people co-opt the terminology? These people are dishonest and they lie to get what they want. Their ‘god’ is one that lies.
If the “designer” is ‘not of this earth’ or if their ‘god’ is a software programmer in another galaxy, then it’s either an “Alien” or “Foreign” Designer. Make them say that.
Whenever they try to use the term ‘Intelligent design” don’t let them, make them use the right terminology so everyone knows what they’re talking about.
August 6th, 2005 at 2:09 pm“Alien Design” or “Foreign Design” is what they really mean and it should be what they say. Don’t let them get away with subverting and stealing the language. Thieves and liars, the lot of ‘em.
Don’t forget to include the Theory of the Flying Spaghetti Monster!
http://www.venganza.org/
August 6th, 2005 at 2:49 pmgts1014 #108,
How about “interior design”, or is that too steriotypical?
Here is a conspiracy thought. What will politics look like in 20 years?
It all starts in the schools now. Why do you think the neocon are interested in ID, faith-based, ect.? If these asshats have their way there will be no teaching of science, math, philosophy. These require critical thinking, exactly what they want to prevent. The reason they aspire to religion is not the concept, but they know that sheepeople don’t think in religion, they just follow whatever someone at the pulpit tells them is “right”. It is a war, it started 20 some years ago with King Ron Reagan. NCLB is a crock, they just want to control the schools and your child’s mind through your tax dollars. If you can afford the expense, get your chidren out of public school. Try charter schools, parochial, private, hell even home school. Teach your children to think for themself, critically, and learn everything they can.
August 6th, 2005 at 4:09 pmI picked up a web site from a blog here — wilstar.com and there I found an easy to explain definition of the differences between Scientific Theory and the layman’s theory. The layman’s theory is what the conservatives are using as reason to include their ID in classrooms along with Darwin’s theory of evolution — they would circumvent all authentic study that goes into scientific theory. Because so many people do not understand the difference, they will fall into the trap of thinking ID is equal to science and should be taught as such.
August 6th, 2005 at 6:58 pmThe following is explanatory: scientific theory is like an automobile, components of it can be changed or improved, but the overall truth of the theory (automobile) remains.
Republicans haven’t evolved, therefore they don’t believe in evolution. Geez, take a look at Bush walking; I think his dna is a real close match to that of a banty rooster. Of course, a banty rooster has a brain.
August 6th, 2005 at 10:27 pmRepublicans are the missing link! They were hiding in plain sight! Proof of evolution is here!
August 7th, 2005 at 11:43 amWell, while finding the section for another topic, I came across this little tid bit in the No CHild Left Behind Act:
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/ cgi-bin/ getdoc.cgi?dbname=107_cong_public_laws&docid=f:publ110.107.pdf
‘‘SEC. 9505. PROHIBITION AGAINST FUNDS FOR RELIGIOUS WORSHIP OR INSTRUCTION.
‘‘Nothing contained in this Act shall be construed to authorize the making of any payment under this Act for religious worship or instruction.
How long do you guys think it will be until the Bushies try and ammend the NCLBA?
August 7th, 2005 at 3:05 pmWell, if you want to teach creationism (what we USED TO call ID) in public shools, OK, just allow me to come teach evolution in your church.
“Intelligent Design”, is an interesting term: no mention of God, so i guess it could have been aliens (especially since any biologist can point out “un-intelligent” design flaws in living creatures, the human appendix for example– what were those little E.T.s thinking when they made THAT?!)
August 8th, 2005 at 2:17 pmJust some quetions?
What explicitly would intelligent Design entail?. Would it be a frank discussion on the possibilities of there being a creator ? Or the indications and evidence that supports that theory much in the way evolution regards and consistantly reaffirms evidence and further proof of evolution and natural selection and adaptation.
Or Is intelligent design going to be a bible study course because then the question becomes why the bible and not the torah or the quran?.
The Real danger is that we lose our competitive adavantage and one day our disadvantaged our infirm our elderly will have to look to south korean and european scientists for hope because our future scientists will be handicapped by a distorted arrogance. Are kids all across the world going to learn intelligent design too? Are we bowing out of the race to use logic and reason to conquer our challenges and then be more like God. Creators.
Xplicit Man
August 9th, 2005 at 9:52 pmFOUR FOR INTELLIGENT DESIGN
Back to the Sea
August 8, 2005
Editor- Regarding the San Francisco Chronicle article, “Bush pushes a very hot button†by Joe Garofoli on the front page is almost concise. I’m not surprise that President Bush tossed in his two cents in this arena, supporting the Intelligent Design movement. This movement major objective isn’t about the advancement of science but the destruction of the “Theory of Evolution.†Any scientific principle that contradicts the conservative theology or George W. Bush’s vision of science (like anti-global warming) should be met with the sternest of attack. I can understand that most oil corporations contribute funds to their think tanks, supporting creationist institutes by undermining the teaching of evolution in our public schools but what I don’t understand is why our teachers are deer shy when confronting these factions. One simple and obvious proof that evolution is a fact is this: sodium chloride in our bloodstream—sea water. Sodium chloride is the evidence of evolution present in the human body, reflecting our origins back to the sea where evolution of life first took place. Just bring that up and that should shut them up.
Second Chance at Bat
August 20, 2005
“Frist backs ‘intelligent design’ in schools†by the Associated Press in the Press Democrat is an indication that Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist wants another chance at bat for the upcoming presidential nomination by trotting out support for the intelligent design “theory†in our public schools. Although he’s steadfast on his position for stem cell research Senator Frist now reaches for the immediate handicap through intelligent design in order to stay in the game. He supports the pompous position of President Bush that intelligent design should be taught along with evolution “so people can understand what the debate is about.†This is such poppycock. The Bush Administration, along with the consensus of the conservative body politic, are not interest in giving anyone equal time or even a choice. If this was true then why hasn’t the Administration given equal time or federal funding for, say, studies in creation stories from Krishna to Native American spirituals, or even Wicca for young girls? The freedom of religion, to the neoconservatives is for Christianity only boy’s club. So don’t take Senator Frist seriously when he spouts that he’s for a “pluralistic society†and “fairest in education.†If his party, the Republicans, believes in that pluralistic philosophy then Senator Frist’s aspiration for the presidency wouldn’t have been quickly torpedoed by them for his belief on stem cell research.
Follow the Money
August 21, 2005
This will be the second time I write about Intelligent Design. On the Sunday front page article, “Darwin debate still evolving†by the New York Times’ Jodi Wilgoren is the most revealing yet about the Intelligent Design’s inner and nefarious operations. It’s no surprise that Design has failed to legitimize its standing before any science review board. And I do mean legitimate. So how it is possible for Design to scored big time inroads? Big time money. Ms. Wilgorne uncovered that Intelligent Design’s many institutes are funded immensely by powerful conservative corporations and foundations from the Ahmansons, the banking billionaires, who funneled $750,000 over a ten year period as well as the Gates and Verizon Foundations, shelling out their 10 million dollars over a ten year period. With so much financial muscle—who needs science? You can now understand why science review boards and your local school boards are having a tough time standing up against such political and intrusive clout. Thus, the Ahmansons’ motive in supporting Intelligent Design: “Committed to furthering the Kingdom of Christ.†No science there.
Intelligent Sucks
August 26, 2005
Reading “Greater faith†by Dave Geoffrion in your LET THE PUBLIC SPEAK editorial column gave me serious pause. This Lee Strobel, a former atheist gone “Intelligent†set this premise: The conflict between religion and science is truly science vs. science. A conjecture. Why? Because Strobel doesn’t know what he’s talking about. It doesn’t take “greater faith†to believe the evolution of living or nonliving chemicals to culminate into the life forms that exit today. It’s a proven fact that life on earth existed for 3.9 billions years and three quarters of that time consisted of microorganisms. That’s more than enough time for “100 amino acids to create one protein molecule by chance,†according Michael Behe. So say goodbye to Behe’s sand trap in the Sahara Desert—blindfolded or not. Strobel said that most scientists believe that life was created by an “Intelligent†rather by random evolution is one big fat lie. To Mr. Geoffrion: The questions that “Intelligent Design†believers always failed to scientifically answer are who this designer is and how he created life. Modern scientists know that answer and it’s called “fertilization,†the fusion of gametes to form an organism, the old “billion†fashion way.
December 10th, 2005 at 1:09 amWhy not teach all religous points of view on creationism? From buddist and Hindu to the Aztec belief?
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January 1st, 2006 at 1:00 pmOH, WHAT FOOLS WE MORTALS BE
February 21st, 2006 at 9:01 pm[…] Unfortunately, there’s no known way to use this drug to benefit political campaigns. A Presidential, Senate, or even House term is simply too long to have someone on rohypnol. Politicians will have to wait for Digital Rights Management-enabled computer chips to be implanted in the brain, enabling voters to forget things like weapons of mass destruction, FEMA, support then rejection of Intelligent Design or the racist utterings of Tony Snow. […]
April 27th, 2006 at 2:37 pm[…] By the way, where does Rick Santorum stand on Intelligent Design? […]
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