NYT Backs Rove’s Position on Leak Scandal
NYT Backs Rove’s Position on Leak Scandal
What is the “central question” of the Valerie Plame leak scandal? The New York Times’ Elizabeth Bumiller provides an answer in the lede of her article today:
These hot months here will be remembered as the summer of the leak, a time when the political class obsessed on a central question: did Karl Rove, President Bush’s powerful adviser, commit a crime when he spoke about a C.I.A. officer with the columnist Robert D. Novak?
Karl Rove couldn’t have put it any better himself.
Surely Rove wants nothing more than for the media’s coverage of the leak case to focus on whether he and other White House officials technically broke the letter of the Intelligence Identities Protection Act (which is extremely difficult to break) when they exposed Valerie Plame’s identity. (Exhibit A of the White House strategy: President Bush now saying he’ll fire anyone involved in the leak only if they committed a crime.)
Both Bumiller and Rove are wrong. We already know the answers to the real central questions of the case. We know that Rove, Libby, and at least one other senior official leaked Plame’s identity; that the White House lied about their involvement; and that President Bush has betrayed the trust of the American people by not following through on his pledge to fire them.
It’s no surprise the White House wants to play down these basic facts. But why does the New York Times have to help them out?
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Nico,
Probably because you don’t understand what you are talking about, because you don’t understand what has transpired.
There is no cum on a dress here buddy.
August 6th, 2005 at 10:07 pmYou’re right. Rove and his pals spooged all over the US flag, then took a leak on the WTC dead and all the troops in Afghanistan and Iraq. Certainly doesn’t rise to the level of Clinton’s offense, nosirree.
August 6th, 2005 at 10:12 pmBumiller is one of the many wankers at the NYTimes that carry water for the Admin. NYTimes is Pravda on the Hudson. If it wasn’t for the NYTimes and Judy, the Iraq war might have been a more difficult sell. I don’t read the NYTimes except for Krugman, Rich and a few others. The best papers today are the smaller regional ones, like the Toledo Blade, and a few others. Spokane, too, the paper covering the Mayor West scandal.
August 6th, 2005 at 10:17 pmRove and Bush and America’s soldiers have spooged on Saddam Hussein’s authoritarian regime and radical fundie Muslims. It’s a wonderful thing. Our soldiers have not been killed in vain. They are changing the world for the better by getting rid of tyrants and forcing the Islamic world to get its shit together, like understanding that blowing up Muslims looking for work is bad.
August 6th, 2005 at 10:17 pmHow can you take any paper seriously that prints the rubbish from the likes of David Brooks, Tom Freidman, Elizabeth Bumiller, and a host of other wankers they have up there.
August 6th, 2005 at 10:20 pmThe soldiers don’t seem to agree with you, liele
August 6th, 2005 at 10:21 pmLiele is mos def a yellow elephant, 101st fighting keyboard commandos.
July 25, 2005
The Best Army We Can Buy
By DAVID M. KENNEDY
THE United States now has a mercenary army. To be sure, our soldiers are hired from within the citizenry, unlike the hated Hessians whom George III recruited to fight against the America Revolutionaries. But like those Hessians, today’s volunteers sign up for some mighty dangerous work largely for wages and benefits – a compensation package that may not always be commensurate with the dangers in store, as current recruiting problems testify.
Neither the idealism nor the patriotism of those who serve is in question here. The profession of arms is a noble calling, and there is no shame in wage labor. But the fact remains that the United States today has a military force that is extraordinarily lean and lethal, even while it is increasingly separated from the civil society on whose behalf it fights. This is worrisome – for reasons that go well beyond unmet recruiting targets.
One troubling aspect is obvious. By some reckonings, the Pentagon’s budget is greater than the military expenditures of all other nations combined. It buys an arsenal of precision weapons for highly trained troops who can lay down a coercive footprint in the world larger and more intimidating than anything history has known. Our leaders tell us that our armed forces seek only just goals, and at the end of the day will be understood as exerting a benign influence. Yet that perspective may not come so easily to those on the receiving end of that supposedly beneficent violence.
But the modern military’s disjunction from American society is even more disturbing. Since the time of the ancient Greeks through the American Revolutionary War and well into the 20th century, the obligation to bear arms and the privileges of citizenship have been intimately linked. It was for the sake of that link between service and a full place in society that the founders were so invested in militias and so worried about standing armies, which Samuel Adams warned were “always dangerous to the liberties of the people.”
Many African-Americans understood that link in the Civil War, and again in World Wars I and II, when they clamored for combat roles, which they saw as stepping stones to equal rights. From Aristotle’s Athens to Machiavelli’s Florence to Thomas Jefferson’s Virginia and Robert Gould Shaw’s Boston and beyond, the tradition of the citizen-soldier has served the indispensable purposes of sustaining civic engagement, protecting individual liberty – and guaranteeing political accountability.
That tradition has now been all but abandoned. A comparison with a prior generation’s war illuminates the point. In World War II, the United States put some 16 million men and women into uniform. What’s more, it mobilized the economic, social and psychological resources of the society down to the last factory, rail car, classroom and victory garden. World War II was a “total war.” Waging it compelled the participation of all citizens and an enormous commitment of society’s energies.
But thanks to something that policymakers and academic experts grandly call the “revolution in military affairs,” which has wedded the newest electronic and information technologies to the destructive purposes of the second-oldest profession, we now have an active-duty military establishment that is, proportionate to population, about 4 percent of the size of the force that won World War II. And today’s military budget is about 4 percent of gross domestic product, as opposed to nearly 40 percent during World War II.
The implications are deeply unsettling: history’s most potent military force can now be put into the field by a society that scarcely breaks a sweat when it does so. We can now wage war while putting at risk very few of our sons and daughters, none of whom is obliged to serve. Modern warfare lays no significant burdens on the larger body of citizens in whose name war is being waged.
This is not a healthy situation. It is, among other things, a standing invitation to the kind of military adventurism that the founders correctly feared was the greatest danger of standing armies – a danger made manifest in their day by the career of Napoleon Bonaparte, whom Jefferson described as having “transferred the destinies of the republic from the civil to the military arm.”
Some will find it offensive to call today’s armed forces a “mercenary army,” but our troops are emphatically not the kind of citizen-soldiers that we fielded two generations ago – drawn from all ranks of society without respect to background or privilege or education, and mobilized on such a scale that civilian society’s deep and durable consent to the resort to arms was absolutely necessary.
Leaving questions of equity aside, it cannot be wise for a democracy to let such an important function grow so far removed from popular participation and accountability. It makes some supremely important things too easy – like dealing out death and destruction to others, and seeking military solutions on the assumption they will be swifter and more cheaply bought than what could be accomplished by the more vexatious business of diplomacy.
The life of a robust democratic society should be strenuous; it should make demands on its citizens when they are asked to engage with issues of life and death. The “revolution in military affairs” has made obsolete the kind of huge army that fought World War II, but a universal duty to service – perhaps in the form of a lottery, or of compulsory national service with military duty as one option among several – would at least ensure that the civilian and military sectors do not become dangerously separate spheres. War is too important to be left either to the generals or the politicians. It must be the people’s business.
David M. Kennedy, a professor of history at Stanford and the author of the Pulitzer-Prize winning “Freedom from Fear: The American People in Depression and War, 1929-1945,” is working on a book about the American national character.
Quite a few milblogs tried to trash this article. They got slapped down, by military people. This is the reality. If you are so Gung Ho about implementing democracy at gunpoint, get a rifle and a little red book and give your mouth a rest.
August 6th, 2005 at 10:27 pmMost U.S. soldiers agree with what they’re doing. Some don’t, but they signed up for the military and must fight while not agreeing with while they’re fighting.
August 6th, 2005 at 10:42 pmDarnit, can we please get something straight?
The Intelligence Identities Protection Act is not the only law governing the release of state secrets. There is no reason – NONE – to believe that it is the only charge that Fitzgerald has in mind. Think of it this way. The IIPA was written in 1982; was outing a spy legal before that? No. There are other statutes to nail people with.
Narrowing the discussion to the IIPA is another GOP talking point (just like trying to narrow the issue down to whether Rove committed a crime).
August 6th, 2005 at 11:13 pmJason is correct. Perjury, conspiracy and obstruction are the likely bulk of the indictments to be returned.
Most U.S. soldiers agree with what they’re doing.
Like you would know…
August 6th, 2005 at 11:30 pmThis why you have to stay on the talking heads who propogate this angle:
Rep. King, Peter (R-NY-3rd)
Sen. Hutchison, Kay Bailey (R-TX)
Sen. Cornyn, John (R-TX)
Sen. Coleman, Norm (R-MN
Rep. Blunt, Roy (R-MO-7th
Sen. Graham, Lindsey (R-SC)
Sen. McCain, John (R-AZ)
Sen. Roberts, Pat (R-Ks)
I email these people with the premise that Rove is vindictive with remarks like “Fair game”, and telling Novak “Plame will be declassified soon”.
August 6th, 2005 at 11:31 pmI think the story is incorrectly focused on Rove. Fortunately, Fitzgerald has not yet been replaced or terminated, so maybe the truth will be dragged out into the open.
August 6th, 2005 at 11:36 pmLyle,
August 6th, 2005 at 11:37 pmEntropy will win in Iraq. Hussain worked against nature, Bush is doing the same only poorly. Ata minimum Iraq will be an Iran clone or two states altogether.
Yiu have a reply in the previous thread.
Looks like you got it goin’ on tonight, narc. Thank you for the Kennedy piece. I keep asking myself how would the US approach this type of war/struggle if there were a national effort. The obvious difference I think is we would not have invaded Iraq. I think there would have been a concerted effort to actually catch the real bad guys.
August 6th, 2005 at 11:50 pmdid Karl Rove, President Bush’s powerful adviser, commit a crime when he spoke about a C.I.A. officer with the columnist Robert D. Novak? – of course she answereed YES, right?
Please say she did……
August 6th, 2005 at 11:55 pmYes! Another successful diversionary tactic! Knock yourselves out, all you left wing whack jobs. Thank God (He is a Republican, you know) for the New York Times.
August 7th, 2005 at 12:20 amLyle, “There is no cum on a dress here buddy.”
August 7th, 2005 at 1:41 amMaybe not, but there sure seems to be some on your brain!
Are you truly ignorant to the degree that your arguments only regress?
Come on, Lyle. Be in the now. The present. History will commend you for it.
Don’t let your legacy fall where the current administrations is likely to land in the very near future.
Stop using your brain as a blinded horse plowing the neocon field of dreams…
It is better that you use your brain and join the tide of evidence that will soon bring this president to either admit what he has done and step down (highly unlikely), or face the impeachment proceedings that are on the horizon.
If you truly are the patriot you claim to be then begin to broaden your mind by reading viewpoints other than those that make you feel right! On some arguments you could be right, but only by virtue of luck, not sound reason.
Murray Waas:
The Meeting
Scooter Libby and Judy Miller met on July 8, 2003, two days after Joe Wilson published his column. And Patrick Fitzgerald is very interested.
http://www.prospect.org/web/page.ww?section=root&name=ViewWeb&articleId=10077
Many people wrongly assume that Fitzgerald is the one to bring indictments. This is because people are ill-informed as to the purpose and function of the GJ. The GJ returns the indictments, then a judge becomes involved, if I am not mistaken.
Bringing charges
In the federal system and in all but two of the states, grand juries are used to bring charges against persons who are believed to have committed crimes. In the federal system and in some states, they HAVE to be used to bring charges for felonies, which are the more serious crimes that normally carry a prison term for those who are convicted. In other states, they CAN be used to bring charges for felonies (or for other crimes), but don’t have to be used. If a prosecutor doesn’t HAVE to use a grand jury and doesn’t WANT to, he or she can bring charges on their own, using what is called an “information” as the charging document. When a grand jury brings criminal charges, the charges are contained in a charging document that is called an “indictment.”
If a prosecutor wants a grand jury to charge someone, the prosecutor reserves time with the grand jury and then presents evidence to them. In presenting the evidence, the prosecutor is trying to persuade the grand jurors that the people he or she wants to charge have committed certain crimes. The evidence can be almost anything–testimony from witnesses (including police officers or federal agents), documents, video recordings, tape recordings, the results of scientific tests (like DNA tests), photographs, etc. Here, you see a prosecutor presenting evidence to a grand jury (the gentleman is the prosecutor; the lady is the court reporter):
The grand jurors listen to the evidence and decides if it establishes probable cause to believe the person the prosecutor wants to charge has committed the crime(s) the prosecutor claims. Here, you seen grand jurors discussing evidence that has been presented to them:
After they hear all the prosecutor’s evidence, the jurors vote on a set of proposed charges–known as an “indictment”–which the prosecutor has drafted and gives to the grand jurors. If the grand jurors decide the evidence creates probable cause to believe the persons named in an indictment committed the crimes it charges them with, they vote to “return” the indictment, i.e., to charge the person with those crimes. Voting to return charges is usually known as “returning a true bill.” If a grand jury votes to return a true bill, the indictment is valid and it initiates a criminal case against the people named as defendants in the indictment. A majority of the grand jurors must vote for an indictment in order to return a true bill.
If a majority of the grand jurors don’t think the prosecutor’s evidence creates probable cause, they will vote not to return the indictment. When a majority of grand jurors vote not to return an indictment, this is known alternatively as “returning a bill of ignoramus” or “returning a no bill.” If the grand jurors vote not to return an indictment, the indictment is not valid and no criminal case results.
But even if a grand jury votes not to indict, that isn’t the end of things. A grand jury’s vote not to return an indictment is not a final judgment that triggers the constitutional protection against “double jeopardy.” To be protected against double jeopardy, a person has to have been “put into jeopardy” and then the proceeding in which “jeopardy attached” had to end without that person’s being convicted. The basic rule of thumb is that “jeopardy attaches” when the first witness is sworn in a bench trial (that is, a trial to the court, where there is no jury) or when the jury is sworn in if the case is to be tried by a jury. This means, for example, that if a jury has been sworn in and heard the evidence in a criminal case and they vote to acquit the defendant, he or she cannot be re-tried on those charges. That is precisely what happened to O.J. Simpson: Because the jury in the criminal case acquitted him, he cannot be re-tried on any charges arising out of the death’s of Nicole Brown Simpson or Ronald Goldman. (The civil trial was not barred by double jeopardy because the double jeopardy provision only protects you from being repeatedly tried on the same CRIMINAL charges.)
http://www.udayton.edu/~grandjur/faq/faq3.htm
August 7th, 2005 at 6:09 amGrand Juries have been criticized because of the ease with which almost anyone can get an indictment returned. Hence the famous phrase, “You could indict a ham sammich.” The GJ will return indictments in this case. Miller, if I am not mistaken, is needed to testify. They already know what she knows and refuses to testify to.
August 7th, 2005 at 6:13 amI should add that Miller’s testimony is needed for a conviction, not to have the GJ return an indictment. I think the charge in question, that her testimony, and that of Matt Cooper’s, is needed to ensure a conviction is perjury. This is just a hunch. There are other charges involved here, obstruction, conspiracy, and the initial cause of the investigation, the leaking of classified info.
August 7th, 2005 at 6:19 amIsn’t it cute the way they spit hairs? He didn’t break the law…never actually used her name…he only wanted to make sure the reporter’s story was accurate…
That puke released secret information on an undercover agent for purely political purposes, for God’s sake!!! And if Bush didn’t know about Rove being the source, HE SHOULD HAVE when the allegations first came to light.
At the least, Rove deceived and lied to the President claiming not to be involved. And if he didn’t, and was honest with Bush from the gitgo, then the President is certainly involved in a coverup, deserving of impeachment. But in a one party system like this, its not going to happen.
August 7th, 2005 at 9:06 amLyle, you hope like hell there is nothing there, so you and your hack president can go on and destroy the very fabric of American life. I just love how these crazy rightwingers got all hot and bothered about a president who couldn’t keep his pants zipped, yet feign ignorance, (I hope they know what’s going on), when it comes to an actual crime being committed. Lyle, your president is a fraud, the war is a fraud, our soldiers have died for no good reason, and the only reason why he’ll get away with it all is because of people like you, too stupid to figure out what’s really going on here.
August 7th, 2005 at 10:32 amFrom Crooks:http://www.prospect.org/web/page.ww?section=root&name=ViewWeb&articleId=10077
Looks like we need to place Judy in high security. Make sure she doesn’t fall on a shiv…
August 7th, 2005 at 11:05 amlike i said, all Arabs are the same. i see the world in black and white.Saddam was connected to 9/11 because the are all Arabs.thats how we loyal Fox viewers think.
August 7th, 2005 at 11:35 amBin Laden is still free.
August 7th, 2005 at 11:36 amBin Laden is free because he will now attack Saudi Arabia for U.S. Imperialists. Our Holy Democratic Empire is spreading. He is still a CIA asset.
August 7th, 2005 at 11:39 amI think bin Laden is dead. Zawahiri is the one thet failed to catch.
August 7th, 2005 at 11:45 amBin Laden is free because of Bushs war.
August 7th, 2005 at 12:08 pmLyle,
I think hanging out here with us free thinkers has started to short circuit your Republican wiring. Your comments have ranged from bizarre to utterly deranged.
I’m uncertain if you are trying to be humorous or if you are merely unable to formulate a cogent argument.
August 7th, 2005 at 12:26 pmAug. 15, 2005 issue – The departure this week of Deputy Attorney General James Comey, who has accepted the post of general counsel at Lockheed Martin, leaves a question mark in the probe into who leaked the identity of CIA operative Valerie Plame. Comey was the only official overseeing special counsel Patrick Fitzgerald’s leak investigation. With Attorney General Alberto Gonzales recused, department officials say they are still trying to resolve whom Fitzgerald will now report to. Associate Attorney General Robert McCallum is “likely” to be named as acting deputy A.G., a DOJ official who asked not to be identified because of the sensitivity of the matter tells NEWSWEEK. But McCallum may be seen as having his own conflicts: he is an old friend of President Bush’s and a member of his Skull and Bones class at Yale. One question: how much authority Comey’s successor will have over Fitzgerald. When Comey appointed Fitzgerald in 2003, the deputy granted him extraordinary powers to act however he saw fitâ€â€but noted he still had the right to revoke Fitzgerald’s authority. The questions are pertinent because law-yers close to the case believe the probe is in its final stages. Fitzgerald recently called White House aide Karl Rove’s secretary and his former top aide to testify before the grand jury. They were asked why there was no record of a phone call from Time reporter Matt Cooper, with whom Rove discussed the CIA agent, says a source close to Rove who requested anonymity because the FBI asked participants not to comment. The source says the call went through the White House switchboard, not directly to Rove.
August 7th, 2005 at 12:29 pm- In September 2000, one year before 9/11, the Bush team’s neocon think tank PNAC (Project for a New American Century) published a plan for global domination called “Rebuilding America’s Defenses”. (Top Bush Administration figures like Cheney, Perle, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld et al. were signers of PNAC’s Statement of Principles.)
August 7th, 2005 at 12:36 pmTheir plan called for a huge boost in defense spending, full spectrum dominance over all nations and regions (including outer space), long term petro-resource control with permanent Middle East bases, and a preemptive war policy against recalcitrant states. However, they openly conceded that such a huge “transformation” would take forever “absent some cataclysmic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor.”
While the NYT may be focusing on the technicalities of whether Rove did or not commit a crime, the people have already spoken and handed down their sentence for Rove.
For the details, check out the results of “the Karl Rove Whack-a-Mole Contest.”
August 7th, 2005 at 12:37 pmYou’re making the same mistakes of your leaders, Strathmore: Underestimating the enemy. Keep it up. And while you’re at it, keep on postin’.Keep on postin’…
August 7th, 2005 at 12:59 pmMark,
You haven’t challenged anything I’ve said. All you say is that I am “not in the now” and that I should “live in the present”. Why don’t you put up your dukes and make a serious point.
I also have never talked about being a “patriot”. Did I ridicule you for you “patriotism”? If not, I am not sure why you brought up “patriotism”.
August 7th, 2005 at 1:15 pmWelcome to 1938 Germany, only now we call it USA.
Invade another country for it’s oil and call it something other than what it is.
Attack anyone domestically that doesn’t share your opinion.
Control the media, and the public’s perception of reality.
Unite most domestically by identifying a common enemy (or two).
Call your movement a Christian one, even if your actions don’t reflect that.
And when you get caught? Well, we will just have to see how this replaying of history will play out.
NYT? see the one about controlling the media.
August 7th, 2005 at 1:22 pmP.S.: Don’t let gizz heads like LIEly take the focus off the issues by getting into a discussion with him.
Mount him properly and dispach him.
August 7th, 2005 at 1:24 pmKJ,
How is America like 1938 Germany? Are you publicly declaring that Bush is a dictator and will not leave office after his term is up? Are you saying that Bush is sending people like you to concentration camps for undesirables? Is Bush destroying art? Is Bush burning books? Is Bush intimidating Jews? Is Bush intimidating Communists?
Well, I guess you’re right though. There is this facility being built back in the woods behind my parents house and there this smoke stack spewing out this god awful smoke. And these trains with people on them keep going by. I haven’t figured out what the hell is going on. All the people have a donkey symbol stiched to their clothing.
August 7th, 2005 at 1:32 pmI finally figured it out: Kyle communicates like a valley girl (seriously). Not that there is anything wrong with that.
August 7th, 2005 at 1:38 pmMy name is Lyle. An L is not a K. Learn the alphabet Brian.
Why don’t you communicate like an educated person and actually argue my points. It’s kind of California of you to just be like, “this guy is laugable, he communicates, like ah, a valley girl”.
I’ve never lived in the valley man, I’m purple person living in a red state.
Put up your dukes and fight man.
Muslim subjigation of women is unacceptable!!!
August 7th, 2005 at 1:42 pmMr. Genero-personality needs an earmark. I’m done, Pyle. Bring yer ID, see the receptionist.
August 7th, 2005 at 1:45 pmWhy anyone would believe, that a blue-blood from Kennebunkport, Maine, (who masquerades as a Texan and has close ties to individuals involved in some of the most scandalous crimes in our history, from Savings and Loan to Enron), would have the best interests of the American people at heart seems incredible to me.
That anyone could believe that the wholesale murder of hundreds of thousands of human beings can be justified by bring such a perverted brand of “democracy” to the world, is insane.
I am in complete disagreement with the Neocons, on almost every issue, and where I do agree with their viewpoint, I find their motivations suspect. They are concerned only with power. They worship death and torture.
We are in a state of perpetual war (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_war), where the ultimate goal is to wipe out all resistance to the State. This includes Republicans that might disagree too.
August 7th, 2005 at 1:51 pmPink elephants flew out of my ass. No one can prove that they didn’t.
August 7th, 2005 at 2:09 pmMy name is Lyle. It rhymes with lie all the time.
August 7th, 2005 at 2:11 pmim a chickenhawk who has never killed a man in my life. i eat what the MSM feeds me gladly. nevermind that 3 corporations own all the media, that means nothing to me. im a cheerleader. ,
August 7th, 2005 at 2:11 pmResistance is futile. I will be assimilated into John Podesta’s Day Planner.
August 7th, 2005 at 2:23 pm“We know that Rove, Libby, and at least one other senior official leaked Plame’s identity; that the White House lied about their involvement; and that President Bush has betrayed the trust of the American people by not following through on his pledge to fire them.”
President Bush pledged to fire anyone found to have violated the law. Since no one has yet been found to have violated the law, the president has not violated his pledge.
Nico’s entire paragraph is filled with falshoods. We do not know “that Rove, Libby, and at least one other senior official leaked Plame’s identity”. We do not know “that the White House lied about their involvement”. There’s no indication that Bush has lied.
All this is nothing more than another example, like the Iraq war, of little children who hate the president jumping up and down screaming “liar, liar” because they can’t think of any real arguments.
August 7th, 2005 at 2:25 pmPray for George W. Bush! You Commie Heathens!
http://www.prayforgeorgewbush.com/pages/236635/index.htm
Pray for President Bush – Day 1785
Numbers 24
5 “How beautiful are your tents, O Jacob, your dwelling places, O Israel!
6 “Like valleys they spread out, like gardens beside a river, like aloes planted by the LORD, like cedars beside the waters.
7 Water will flow from their buckets; their seed will have abundant water. “Their king will be greater than Agag; their kingdom will be exalted.
8 “God brought them out of Egypt; they have the strength of a wild ox. They devour hostile nations and break their bones in pieces; with their arrows they pierce them.
9 Like a lion they crouch and lie down, like a lionessâ€â€who dares to rouse them? “May those who bless you be blessed and those who curse you be cursed!â€?
Dear Lord on High, We exalt You on this Lord’s Day and praise your very being. You are gracious and good and kind to us and Your mercies never fail. We thank You for being able to live in this wonderful country of ours. Yes, she is flawed, but she is free – and we thank You for our Freedom. We pray Lord for those who are risking their lives to preserve it, and for the families of those who have lost their lives. Be a comfort and a guide to all who diligently seek You and rule over this land with all of Your mighty power and glory. Revive Your church, Lord. Revive this nation and its leaders.
Father, I pray for President Bush as he is down in Crawford. Some have criticized him being there, but we know that even though he is vacationing, he is at work. Lord, give him wisdom as he works. And help him to use it. Protect him always, and may his deeds glorify You.
I pray for Laura and the Bush family. Protect them. Show them Your glory in ways that touch their hearts and souls, and Lord if any of them don’t know You, reveal yourself to that person or those people. For the kingdom is better when the “King� abides by Your standards.
Father, be with our astronauts returning from orbit. Keep them safe. And, Lord, thank You for creating man with the abilities to do such marvelous things. I’m awed that as much as many of my fellow human’s know, is just a shadow of Your knowledge. You are an awesome God!
Go with us, Lord. Forgive us where we fail You. And lift us up from whence we have fallen. For it is in Jesus’ precious name that I pray these things.
Amen.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1458698/posts
We keep a prayin’ but he keeps a suckin’!
August 7th, 2005 at 2:32 pmAll this is nothing more than another example, like the Iraq war, of little children who hate the president jumping up and down screaming “liar, liar� because they can’t think of any real arguments.
Yeah! That’s what they said defending Clintoon!
August 7th, 2005 at 2:35 pmIt didn’t work then either!
We shall overcome We shall overcome We shall overcome We shall overcome We shall overcome We shall overcome
August 7th, 2005 at 2:36 pmLyle Schmyle is a loony bird, too. While Rove and Bush dawdle and shit their pants, lyle caterwauls with reckless abandon.
The USS Republican is sunk. The smokestacks are still huffing and puffing, but there is no more forward motion. She’s a goner.
See
August 7th, 2005 at 2:41 pmThe real argument against the war in Iraq is that Bush planned on going to war in Iraq. He knew he would need lots of healthy bodies to go take bullets for him and his cronies, so he added a section to the No Child Left Behind Act, which forces middle scholls and up to hand over all pertanent information relating to all students to the military or lose their federal funding.
The problem is that people such as yourself don’t readin into anything. You don’t question. You just follow. You could be replaced with a robot.
People are now outraged. “How dare the Pentagon build a database of student information.” The problem is that it is their own damn faults for not questioning. Not reading the act and seeing what is in it.
If anyone is interested, here is a link to the No Child Left Behind Act:
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=107_cong_public_laws&docid=f:publ110.107.pdf
You are looking for Section 9528.
This act was passed on January 8th 2002. Right around the time the Bush Administartion was recruiting Iraqi civilian to take part in a covert CIA paramilitary squad known as the Scorpions.
They knew they would need lots of people to die for their bid at the American Empire.
August 7th, 2005 at 3:01 pmSeems to me that it was the CIA itself that “outed” Valerie Plame. Robert Novak on September 29, 2003 stated the following on CNN:
“Nobody in the Bush administration called me to leak this. In July, I was interviewing a senior administration official on Ambassador Wilson’s report when he told me the trip was inspired by his wife, a CIA employee working on weapons of mass destruction. Another senior official told me the same thing. When I called the CIA in July, they confirmed Mrs. Wilson’s involvement in a mission for her husband. They asked me not to use her name, but never indicated it would endanger her or anybody else. According to a confidential source at the CIA, Mrs. Wilson was an analyst, not a spy, not a covert operative, and not in charge of undercover operatives.”
If Plame were truly undercover, why did the CIA source confirm her employment with the CIA and her role in Joe Wilson’s trip to Niger. The source could have told Novak, “Sorry, Bob, but there’s no Valerie Plame on the CIA’s payroll.” The question then is would Novak have printed Plame’s name if the CIA had confirmed her position with the CIA.
See http://www.retroactiveimpeachment.com/dissemblers.html for more information on this subject.
August 7th, 2005 at 3:25 pmI like your link, Ron.
August 7th, 2005 at 3:59 pmKneel Before ZOG! Pray For Bush!
http://newsobserver.com/news/story/2696650p-9133919c.html
Council hopeful doomed by Web
Supremacist postings revealed
By TIM WHITMIRE, The Associated Press
CHARLOTTE — A city council candidate dropped out of the race Friday after it was disclosed that he posted comments to a white supremacist Internet bulletin board more than 4,000 times.
Doug Hanks said the postings on the site were fictional and designed to win white supremacists’ trust as he researched a novel he was writing.
“I needed information for the book and some other writings I was doing,” Hanks told The Associated Press on Friday. “Obviously, when you go to a site like that as a reporter, nobody’s going to give you the time of day. I did what I thought I needed to do to establish myself as a credible white nationalist.”
Hanks’ 4,000 postings to the Web site over the past three years were first reported Thursday by The Rhinoceros Times, a weekly newspaper.
Web postings
In a June 1 posting, Hanks wrote: “When Blacks start acting equally, only then will they enjoy the benefits of being treated equally. I treat a rabid dog differently from a healthy one. In fact, this gives me a terrific idea! Let’s treat all the Blacks like the rabid beasts they are. ‘Yeller! Here Boy!’ ”
Michael Dickerson, director of elections for Mecklenburg County, said Hanks formally withdrew from the race Friday morning. Hanks had filed papers seeking the Republican nomination for one of four at-large seats on Charlotte’s council.
Hanks’ novel, called “Patriot Act” and self-published under the name D.A. Hanks, is described on Hanks’ Web site as ” ‘Unintended Consequences’ and ‘Harrison Bergeron’ meets ‘The Turner Diaries’. … The book presents some unique methods of improvising weaponry when our guns are banned, as well as preparing and caching your weapons when that inevitable day arrives.” The Web site also advertises an 80-page guide by Hanks that tells how to build a rifle “that requires no Government paperwork!”
Seeking an audience
Hanks told the AP that he thinks the Patriot Act has sent the nation sliding “downhill into a totalitarian society” but that he wanted his novel about it to appeal to more than just “the gun crowd.”
“I saw how successful these ‘Turner Diaries’ had been, and that was the path to take,” he said.
“The Turner Diaries,” a racist novel by William Pierce that begins with a truck bombing of FBI headquarters as part of a war against the government, is thought to have inspired Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh.
“That [white supremacist readership] was who I was trying to target for better sales of the book,” he said. “They have more of a tendency to word of mouth, to say, ‘Hey, you ought to pick this up.’ ”
Hanks, who describes himself as a contractor, minister and conservation officer, was active in a debate last winter over whether a Confederate battle flag would be allowed to fly over a public cemetery in Charlotte. In January, he scaled a flagpole and reattached the flag. The city later removed both the flag and the pole.
But he said his support for that fight was distinct from racist beliefs.
“I believe wholeheartedly that the Confederate flag was [taken] down for the wrong reasons,” he said Friday. “If there had been a black regimental flag there, I would have done the same thing.”
Republican Mayor Pat McCrory condemned Hanks.
“He’s a man of total inner hatred in both his heart and soul, and it doesn’t matter what party he’s in,” McCrory said.
http://rogerailes.blogspot.com/2005_07_31_rogerailes_archive.html#112334607129736592
August 7th, 2005 at 4:02 pmJust keep towing the line, Editor.
August 7th, 2005 at 4:07 pmI done enlisted!
August 7th, 2005 at 4:08 pmHere you go, Editor(Nigel). A slice of Americana:
Nigel Tufnel: The numbers all go to eleven. Look, right across the board, eleven, eleven, eleven and….
August 7th, 2005 at 4:09 pmMarty DiBergi: Oh, I see. And most amps go up to ten?
Nigel Tufnel: Exactly.
Marty DiBergi: Does that mean it’s louder? Is it any louder?
Nigel Tufnel: Well, it’s one louder, isn’t it? It’s not ten. You see, most blokes, you know, will be playing at ten. You’re on ten here, all the way up, all the way up, all the way up, you’re on ten on your guitar. Where can you go from there? Where?
Marty DiBergi: I don’t know.
Nigel Tufnel: Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?
Marty DiBergi: Put it up to eleven.
Nigel Tufnel: Eleven. Exactly. One louder.
Marty DiBergi: Why don’t you just make ten louder and make ten be the top number and make that a little louder?
Nigel Tufnel: [Pause.] These go to eleven.
I think it’s “toe the line” as in keep tour toes to the line and “a hard row to hoe”. Sgt. Shazaam!~
August 7th, 2005 at 4:13 pmIt’s about to break…
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2005_08_07_digbysblog_archive.html#112343544357241562
A well-connected media source e-mailed to say that the most interesting development on the Miller story is coming from inside the Times: “I gather that Doug Jehl, who is a dogged and respected reporter, has been assigned to do an in-house investigative report for the Times and that he is already cutting pretty close to the bone. Several editors he has spoken to are now asking themselves why there wasn’t more questioning of whether Miller’s silence reflects a fear of incriminating herself rather than betraying a source. I predict this will start to unravel in the next couple of weeks — if only because the Times is afraid of getting scooped again by outside rivals.”
August 7th, 2005 at 4:21 pmComments #45-48 are not mine.
August 7th, 2005 at 4:30 pmExcuse me, #42-45 are not mine.
August 7th, 2005 at 4:30 pm#24-25 are also not my comments.
people who only say, lyle, make a “cogent argument” need to actually make an argument themselves. you people are still not arguing my points, you are just labeling them “stupid”.
please start to argue your side of things.
August 7th, 2005 at 4:32 pmLook I may think Lyle is a dumb ass, but could people stop posting using his name. That is not the way to talk sense into these morons.
August 7th, 2005 at 4:35 pmAgreed, Spudge. Too late for me, though. I won’t respond to Lyle,Kyle or Pyle. Or Tile, LIE’L, Dial.
August 7th, 2005 at 4:57 pmLyle,
Can you please enumerate your arguments in one post so we can thoroughly trounce you once again in one fell swoop?
Also, I don’t believe Lyle to be a moron. He’s misguided perhaps, but he seems intelligent and well meaning.
And please, whoever you are, stop posting under someone elses handle. It’s rude for one, and only serves to confuse people.
August 7th, 2005 at 5:03 pmSpudgeBoy,
Are there not to this day, people who still worship Hitler, or Stalin even? Hell, the last person to invoke Stalin was a Republican wingnut kook, just a few short months ago, and he called him one of the great political figures of the 20th century. And you think that you will ever “talk sense into these morons”? Don’t delude yourself. leave that to them.
Also, I don’t believe Lyle to be a moron. He’s misguided perhaps, but he seems intelligent and well meaning.
Man, are you naive.
And please, whoever you are, stop posting under someone elses handle. It’s rude for one, and only serves to confuse people.
That’s the point. To make them go away. They are a waste of time. At right wing sites you would have been banned after your first few comments. At least at that those few sites that do allow comments. Ignore them or ridicule and harass them. Don’t debate them. It’s a waste of time.
August 7th, 2005 at 5:47 pmActually I agree, you can’t talk sense into them. Thanks for correcting me.
August 7th, 2005 at 5:55 pmIt would be nice if you could, but…
Some will become disabused of their delusions in time, but nothing we say or do will accelerate that process. Others will remain obstinantly in denial until the day they die.
August 7th, 2005 at 6:06 pmYou think I’m joking?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A38308-2005Apr8.html
Vieira, a constitutional lawyer who wrote “How to Dethrone the Imperial Judiciary,” escalated the charges, saying a Politburo of “five people on the Supreme Court” has a “revolutionary agenda” rooted in foreign law and situational ethics. Vieira, his eyeglasses strapped to his head with black elastic, decried the “primordial illogic” of the courts.
Invoking Stalin, Vieira delivered the “no man, no problem” line twice for emphasis. “This is not a structural problem we have; this is a problem of personnel,” he said. “We are in this mess because we have the wrong people as judges.”
A court spokeswoman declined to comment.
These people are sick. They need therapy and medication, not debate.
August 7th, 2005 at 6:11 pmWhat about Picard? HE broke from the Borg!
August 7th, 2005 at 6:13 pmCornyn is a harmless piece of shit talking head. My bet is his downfall will some sort of sexual deviance.
August 7th, 2005 at 6:25 pmDelay? What can I possibly add to his list of transgressions against civility. He is the picture of shit. Shit personified.
“Delay? What can I possibly add to his list of transgressions against civility. He is the picture of shit. Shit personified.”
Brian
You don’t mind if I use that from time to time do you?
August 7th, 2005 at 6:45 pmKnock yerself out, Spudge.
August 7th, 2005 at 6:47 pmI’m hear to tell ya, I’m from Texas and I love Texas.
August 7th, 2005 at 6:53 pmI can’t explain these corrupt people. There are ignorant people here, but no more than anywhere else I’ve been.
I can assure you this, though. Theirs is not the overall vibe in Texas. I think the problem here is people are so laid back they inadertantly less these scumbags take over.
Texas had a Democratic legislature for over 100 years.
misterb,
tell me what you want to hear me explain. i’ve been pointing out stuff all throughout this thread. either go back and find what you don’t like and say something or make a list of things you want me to answer.
… and i highly doubt you will “trounce” me. i fight like mike tyson in his prime, so put down the bong and lets go.
August 7th, 2005 at 7:35 pmMichael Moore,
I’m not naive. I may be overly optimistic.
If we are going to take this country back from Neo-Con Extremists, We’re going to need to convince a lot more people that We are right.
I happen to believe that most people can be persuaded easier when some respect is shown to them, rather than insulting and harrasing them for their views. The kind of persuasion I see happening here is more like school yard bullying than civil discource.
It is counter-productive to alienate potential allys with bigoted posturing. “You are either with us, or against us!� , sound familiar?
We are Americans. Left and Right, Liberal and Conservative, are false paradigms. The real test should be; do we have more liberty or less. Are we being true to the Constitution and Bill of Rights, or are we moving away from those ideals. My answer is that the system of government in power today is corrupt, through and through. Both partys are guilty and We as Citizens are also guilty. We’ve allowed this to happen over many years through our complacency, apathy and ignorance.
August 7th, 2005 at 7:45 pmNeo-conservatives are not extremists. It is not extremist to want books to not be banned in certain places. It is not extremist to not want women subjigated in parts of the world by certain cultures. It is not extremist to want peoples’ fundimental rights protected and enhanced.
Violence is the only way to help the world in some situations. I mean we live in a world with the likes of Kim Jung Il, Osama bin Laden, Robert Mugabe and once Saddam Hussein. These men cannot be respected. They are not our equals. A man who rapes, beats, or kills his wife under Shariah is not our equal. He is what a segrationist was to an integrationist.
He is what a slaveowner was to an abolitionist.
War ended slavery in the United States. War ended tyranny in Europe and Asia. And war is going to help end Islamic backwardness.
August 7th, 2005 at 7:57 pmit IS extrememist to manufacture false intel,then use that intel to go to war to further your business needs.Bush puts BUSINESS before country. and i love him for it.
August 7th, 2005 at 8:05 pm#77 is not my comment
August 7th, 2005 at 8:06 pmOsama was given so much power by the CIA. our beloved government gave him his power and prestige.
August 7th, 2005 at 8:06 pmim a hypocritical sheep that believes everything the media says. im. a. moron. ignorance is bliss baby.
August 7th, 2005 at 8:06 pmdo i EVER get out? do i EVER get laid?
August 7th, 2005 at 8:07 pmi spit republican and neo-con talking points like mike tyson in his prime. nobody recites bullshit rhetoric like me.
August 7th, 2005 at 8:08 pmHere is the President’s pledge from September 2003:
“There’s just too many leaks. And if there is a leak out of my administration, I want to know who it is. And if the person has violated law, the person will be taken care of.” What has changed and how has that been broken?
(http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/09/20030930-9.html)
August 7th, 2005 at 8:11 pm#79-82 are not my comments
August 7th, 2005 at 8:12 pmQuote – “Neo-conservatives are not extremists�
***
Extremism – One who advocates or resorts to measures beyond the norm, especially in politics.
n : any political theory favoring immoderate uncompromising policies.
Please read the Political Manefesto of the New Conservatives.(Neo-Cons)
http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm
Quote – “These men cannot be respected. They are not our equals. A man who rapes, beats, or kills his wife under Shariah is not our equal.�
***
And so our policy should be to bomb the man, his wife, and his children. We can stand on the moral high ground while we torture them because they are not our equal. They are barbarians and we are here to make them more like us civilized people. You assume to much about people you never knew.
I find this kind of thinking to be backward and myopic. Perhaps the Koreans or Chinese think we are backward and uncivilized. Maybe you’d advocate sending a nuke or two over here to change our minds if you were in their shoes.
I’m sorry, Lyle. I just don’t think we are in the right this time.
August 7th, 2005 at 8:33 pmAnd war is going to help end Islamic backwardness
How and when???
August 7th, 2005 at 8:55 pmLyle, arguing a point with you is like trying to staple my nose to my ass… It’s pointless, painless, and not wothwhile…Oh! And laughable!
Hubris! Oh! Hubris! You maker of Rome! You destroyer of Rome! You instiller of fear! You breeder of insanity! Why must you taunt us with your un-girdled bosom?
August 7th, 2005 at 9:05 pmWhat say you, patriot?
August 7th, 2005 at 9:07 pmyou can throw EVERY deceptive,dishonest,morally wrong thing this administration has done in my face, and i dont care. gay(despite this administrations public views on homosexuals) prostitute white house press plants? dont care. CIA leaks for political gain? dont care. war for oil and business profits? dont care, im scared of “terrorists” and all Arabs are “terrorists”. paying journalists to toute Bushs agenda? dont care. stonewalling of the creation of the 9/11 commission? dont care.pretending global warming is not real despite science? dont care. pretending stem cells are “human beings” to appease your religious base and curbing the possible cures of disease? dont care. you see, im a sheep who is spoonfed his views by various media outlets with corporate agendas. IGNORANCE IS BLISS, AND IM SO HAPPY!!!! GOD BLESS KING W!!!!!!!!!
August 7th, 2005 at 9:22 pmmisterb, bill from dover, and mark,
do we bomb muslims? do we shoot muslims because they subjigate their women? no, we do not. we don’t run bombers over saudi arabia or pakistan and bomb madrasses.
we are killing men who do subjigate women though because they want to be able to subjigate women and we don’t appreciate that. that is the nature of the war against islamic extremism. we didn’t kill them first, they killed us first and now we kill them. they want to be left alone so they subjigate women, but unfortunately for them the world has passed them by.
there really are two fights. one against despotism (saddam Hussein) and one against islamic extremism (osama bin laden and friends). and they’re intertwined and that’s why it makes sense to be in iraq when osama is somewhere in afghanistan or pakistan. muslim despots have allowed radical islam to incubate in their countries because they don’t allow their people much freedom, ruin their countries economically, and appear to be supported by Westerners.
Europeans also treat Muslims like shit, unlike American. And some Muslims, like Mohammed Atta imputed their experience in Europe to America.
violently overthrowing Saddam has opened up the minds of the Muslim world, which in certain parts of it is really backwards, like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, the Sudan, Yemen, and Iran. muslims now are talking about changing their despotic governments. mubarak is in trouble in egypt. lebanon has pushed out the Syrian despots. half of iran would like to hang the mullahs. even countries like kuwait and bahrain are experimenting with politically opening up their countries, e.g, allowing women to vote or be members of parliament, etc…
if you say invading iraq has done nothing to help the muslim world you do not understand the muslim world.
August 7th, 2005 at 9:34 pm#89 is not my comment
August 7th, 2005 at 9:35 pmThe only thing invading Iraq did for the Muslim world was to bring them all together, to hate America and Americans. Jere is the bad part. There are more of them.
We are no safer now than before 9/11 we went about it the wrong way. They know it and some of us know it. We will continue to speak the truth while you continue to spew the same old rehtoric.
August 7th, 2005 at 9:48 pmi never leave this board. never.
August 7th, 2005 at 9:53 pm#93 is not my comment
August 7th, 2005 at 9:58 pmspudge,
if muslims the world over are united than why did the Lebanese kick Syria out? why has Kaddafi kow towed the West? why are Iranians by the millions itching for change? why are iraqis happy saddam is gone? why are muslims pushing to overthrow their despots? why are muslims beginning to question the radicals in their midsts?
August 7th, 2005 at 10:00 pmLyle! Oh! Lyle! Must you bunker your head in the sand and hope for rain? Must you be so damned ignorant! We are killing Iraqi citizens! The insurgency is made up of a mere 2% non-Iraqi! Stop insulting everyone’s inteligence and learn the facts of this pitiful excuse of a leader and his minions! 2% is not a mandate! 2% is not enough to justify labeling all those fighting against the occupier as “terrorists”! Read Iraqi blogs, as there are many! Read soldiers blogs as there are many! If you do, I doubt you will, but if you do you will begin to get the sense that your arguments or lack of are a whitewash of the truth! You must get a grip and stop parading RNC talking points as truth! You have said of me that I offer no real arguments,,, You sir do not want to toy with me on the truth! You do not want to wade into the water with me in a battle of words and truth and facts! You, sir, wuldn’t last five seconds without falling back on your trivial deniability talking points and unfounded hate mongering. Now as I know you will only pick and choose the inflamatory words from this response without acknowleding the fact that you are in the wrong, dead wrong, when it comes to the facts on the ground in Iraq! I can only hope that you will not continue to destroy any hope I have of you ending your unhealthy replies to me and those, like me, that know the truth on the ground here in this soveriegn land! I will not pretend, nor feign indifference to your opinion as you are certainly entitled, but I will most certainly not tolerate your ignorance on the facts of this immoral war! You, sir, should leave it at that! Explore the world about you! Don’t pretend you know the truth about the justifications for going to battle when it is painfully clear that you do not!
August 7th, 2005 at 10:04 pmwe’re killing iraqi civilians on purpose? when and where?
who is blowing up iraqi civilians left and right? not americans, muslims.
iraqi civilians have been killed by us, but accidently. war sucks and human beings make mistakes.
driving a car into a crowd of people and blowing it up is not a mistake.
facts suck i guess, huh?
August 7th, 2005 at 10:07 pmI am killing Iraqi civilians you shit for brains!
August 7th, 2005 at 10:09 pmHow old are you, Lyle? If your military age then I suggest you serve your country! Come to Iraq you snivelling pinhead! You have tried my patience, sir! I am the one on the ground you minion! Why must you assume that your opinion based on mere speculation or wishful thinking has a damn thing to do with reality on the ground! 2% non-Iraqi insurgency amounts to nothing of the numbers we ourselves are mowing down! They have no choice against our might of occupiers but have to resort to a campaign that you obviously believe to be non-Iraqi! I suggest you stick to topics you can possibly understand and until you enlist if able and come over here and see the facts and have to kill Iraqi citizens because there is no choice here, then your babble might have meaning! It is there, where you sit comfy in the knowledge that what you condone is just and moral, that is the only place that this war can and will be stopped! You need to wake up, sir!
August 7th, 2005 at 10:20 pmmark,
i’m quite awake. i think what we are doing in iraq is grand. i think it is moral and i think it just. so what that you don’t think so. that’s your opinion, not mine. i don’t agree with you, oh well.
and many of the iraqis who are fighting are not fighting for iraq, they are fighting to protect what they once had under saddam or they fighting as islamists. since you’re in iraq you must know that most iraqis are fighting against the people who are blowing themselves up and killing hundreds of innocent iraqis.
killing insurgents isn’t killing iraqi civilians buddy.
August 7th, 2005 at 10:41 pmmark,
how have you purposefully killed an iraqi civilian? did you say, “hey look Joe, there one of those ragheaded iraqi civilians, he looks like osama… let’s kill him”. is that how you did it mark?
when the tank round that took out a minaret in fallujah exploded, did civilians fall out of the minaret or was it insurgetns?
August 7th, 2005 at 10:44 pmmark,
you also don’t have to be in iraq to understand iraq. lots of people are in iraq who don’t get iraq.
August 7th, 2005 at 10:47 pmKilling insurgents? Come to Iraq! Come see the real insurgency! If the real insurgency is made up of the remaining 98% of Iraqi citizens who in God’s name do you think we’re fighting? Your illusions are grand and I will ask you again- how old are you? I believe the chickens have come home to roost! My fellow soldiers laugh when your ignorance shines brighter than your mind… We all ask you- how old are you, and if military acceptable age join up and come to the party! You’re gauranteed to see what’s been gnawing at you for so long… The truth!
August 7th, 2005 at 10:50 pmmark,
so the guys driving the suicide car bombs into iraqis are iraqis? you’re saying iraqis are killing iraqis? some are, for sure, but many of these guys are from other muslim lands. that is a fact.
you obviously aren’t in iraq because you would know that the iraqi population doesn’t support the insurgency. why? cause the insurgency is killing them!!!
August 7th, 2005 at 10:53 pmReading your last comments we have decided one thing is clear… Life exists for you so you might ring a hollow voice through the darkness that is your ignorance. Life exists for us here merely because we are patriots and sometimes patriots are misled. you ofcourse will never have to fear this because you are a coward and use your imagination as a tool to reach your selfish goal: never to be proven wrong!
August 7th, 2005 at 10:55 pmOne last question… Where do you get your facts from on the Iraqi people not wanting an insurgency? From the misleading press? From the laudable, yet eerily laughable vote count? From the impending Imperialistic drummed constitution? Like I said earlierm arguing with your hubris is like stapling my nose to my ass- it’s meaningless, impossible, and a waste of my time!
August 7th, 2005 at 11:00 pmI think I’d place a little more stock in what soldiers on the ground have to say rather than the morally bankrupt garbage that armchair pundits like Lyle tend to spew.
You say things like, “put up your dukes” but what you really mean is,â€? Put up your dukes and go kick that Iraqi’s ass, while I sit here and pontificate endlessly about PNAC’s sacred duty to impose their will on the rest of the world. Forget ethics. Forget morality. Go to sleep, Lyle. Go back to sleep.
August 7th, 2005 at 11:02 pmIntelligence Identities Protection Act…blah blah blah…Intelligence Identities Protection Act…blah blah blah…
Why do people such as journalist Bumiller get hung up on the IIPA? And the RNC has vomited out a truckload of now-discredited “talking points” on Plame/Rove/IIPA. What about:
THE ESPIONAGE ACT
The recent indictments in the AIPAC (American Israel Public Affairs Committee) scandal were for breaches of the Espionage Act, which is SIGNIFACANTLY EASIER TO PROSECUTE THAN THE IIPA. The AIPAC indictments were for “communication of national defense information to persons not entitled to receive it.” Sound familiar?
FORM SF-312
Rove presumably signed a “Classified Information Nondisclosure Agreement,” also known as SF-312. Then he figuratively (or maybe literally) used the signed form as toilet paper, then spit on it, then used it to wipe dog poop from his shoe. Among other things, the form specifically forbids “confirmation” of classified information, which he most certainly DID like a Chatty Cathy.
PERJURY
Libby says he learned of Plame from Tim Russert. Russert says, “No way, Jose’!” Rove says the call with Cooper was primarily about welfare reform, and Plame was only incidental. Cooper says, “No way, Jose’!” Etcetara, etcetara, etcetara…
CRIMINAL CONSPIRACY
Libby meets with Miller in person. To review Plame documents? Why not just call? America has wonderful telephone service. Libby chats with Miller, Rove chats with Novak, then he chats with Cooper, Cooper chats with Santa, Santa chats with Spiderman, all within a few days…a wonderful little conspiracy thingy goin’ on.
OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE
“Oh, sorry Mr. Prosecutor. I must have FORGOTTEN to tell you about that critical conversation…and that meeting…oh, yeah, there was that memo goin’ round Air Force One as well…”
Who needs the IIPA to prosecute here? Why the continued fixation over same by Bumiller, the RNC, and some others?
August 7th, 2005 at 11:05 pmIsn’t it amazing that the NYT is among the worst of the so called “liberal” newspapers, yet among their prominent reporters are at least two women who are water-boys for Busn & Co.
August 7th, 2005 at 11:25 pmHere! Here! Marie…
August 7th, 2005 at 11:26 pmBush is either criminal or incompetent (personally I think he is both), but in either case, he has to go. If he didn’t own the entire congress and the judiciary, he would be facing impeachment now.
August 7th, 2005 at 11:30 pmHubris! Oh! Hubris! You maker of Rome! You destroyer of Rome! You instiller of fear! You breeder of insanity! Why must you taunt us with your un-girdled bosom?
August 7th, 2005 at 11:38 pmHi all
I think it is time point our some of the dire effects that the traitors actions have had on the CIA and why they are the actions of a traitor.
For the record, Valerie Wilson’s (nee Plame), was among the deepest cover agent’s the CIA has she worked as so called “nonofficial cover” agent, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonofficial_cover a select group of operatives who know that if they are caught, the U.S. government will disavow any connection with them.
Valerie Wilson’s (nee Plame) life and that of her family is now permanently in jepordy from any one of the people who she ran a covert operation against as now they will know who it was and will be looking for payback.
Millions of dollars are spent to train and support this select group of “nonofficial cover” agents. All those millions are now lost and irecoverable.
There is then of course the question of how many other covert operatives and assets in the field have also been compromised as a result of the traitors act.
The company Brewster Jennings & Associates that was used by the CIA as a cover for multiple operatives was compromised directly as a result of the leak by Novak and others in The White House. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brewster_Jennings_%26_Associates
All those agents who used that company as cover have now had their cover blown. There will be obvious ripple effects similar to Valerie Wilson’s (nee Plame) cover being blown for each of those agents as well.
All of Valerie Wilson’s (nee Plame) contacts held in security files round the world are now at risk of arrest, imprisonment and torture.
Further the CIA’s ability to recruit foreign agents has been severely damaged because potential recruits fear coming in contact with Americans and do not trust this administration to protect their identity.
The key thing we have to remember about this is that the traitors have esentialy blinded the CIA to inteligence on WMD at a time when with Iran and North Korea and Al Qaida are a giant risk because the traitors have named the covert head of inteligence on WMD for nothing more than petty party political advantage.
Sadly Walker
August 8th, 2005 at 3:39 amNone of my comments are mine.
August 8th, 2005 at 6:31 amLyle,
August 8th, 2005 at 6:54 amWe think you are like the prez… You lie!
i dont lie, im just a gullible sheep who cant think for himself and needs the media to shape my opinions.
August 8th, 2005 at 8:04 amNo argument here, shit for brains!
August 8th, 2005 at 8:11 ami’ll be back soon to spew some more talking points that i so readily accept as fact. ,
August 8th, 2005 at 8:32 amThe Nazis have landed.
http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2005/08/minutemen-home-for-extremists_08.html
Pick a side.
August 8th, 2005 at 9:45 amJudy Miller must be still writing for the NYT from prison under her assumed pseudonym of “Elizabeth Bumiller”
August 8th, 2005 at 6:03 pmCouldn’t what we’re doing in Iraq be considered “violent extremism”? Oh the hypocrisy!
August 8th, 2005 at 6:31 pmAsk the outside world and the US has been a “violent extremist” for many years! Since we dropped the mother load on Japan our hubris has grown exponentially!
August 8th, 2005 at 6:38 pmso the guys driving the suicide car bombs into iraqis are iraqis? you’re saying iraqis are killing iraqis?
In the old south, the guys hanging Americans were Americans? The guys burning American churches were Americans? Would you say the terrorist KKK had popular support? Were they killing their own people?
Read your history. Sunnis kill Shias. Shias kill Sunnis. Kurds don’t want to be messed with at all.
Do you have any idea how many Sunnis have been driven out of Kurdish areas since the liberation? They may all look the same to you, but they see themselves as different people. It’s not an insurgency, it’s civil war.
August 8th, 2005 at 7:36 pmCynical ex-hippie,
August 9th, 2005 at 1:02 amWe couldn’t have said it better here in The good ol’ USofIraq, sir!
84!
You “already know the central details of the case” you say?? How about these two “central details” you and the mainstream media forgot:
August 23rd, 2005 at 6:27 pm1.The leakers’ violation of the I.I.P.A. is small potatoes compared to the other federal laws the leakers broke in this matter, most importantly 18 USC 794. This is the real issue, not the piddly red herring I.I.P.A. violation that the right wing wants us to be distracted talking about. The 18 USC 794 calls for the possibile punishments of life imprisonment and the death penalty for leaking classified information damaging to a government operation in time of war. It is treason. Plame’s network is now mostly hanging on meathooks because of the leak. So please don’t forget about this matter of the 18 USC 794 violation. For further and more detailed information on this matter, see:
http://citizenspook.blogspot.com/
2.Certainly everyone with at least a fourth-grade education has to realize that Rove & Libby didn’t leak this without higher approval, i.e. Cheney and Bush. I mean really, does anyone think that Rove & Libby just went out and leaked this without it being approved first? Come on.
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