Why Conservatives Can’t Believe Bush Is Unpopular
By on Aug 6th, 2005 at 11:11 am
Why Conservatives Can’t Believe Bush Is Unpopular
The popular right-wing blog Ankle Biting Pundits has a post claiming the new AP poll — which found Bush’s approval rating at 42 percent — is inaccurate. Here is one piece of the “evidence”:
Question D14 is curious, too. 14% of respondents make less that $15,000 per year?
Actually, this is exactly what you’d expect from a poll that reflected an accurate cross-section of the American public. In 2003, according to the Census Bureau, 20 percent of households earned $17, 984 or less.
This is precisely the problem with many conservatives. They can’t understand why Bush is unpopular, because they don’t understand how many people are struggling.
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As long as the working poor get their order right at Wendy’s, the conservatives could care less about then or their opinions.
August 6th, 2005 at 11:31 amthem, not then.
August 6th, 2005 at 11:31 amI hope that Patrick Hynes is important enough that his apathy resonates with the other monkeys.
August 6th, 2005 at 11:37 amWhat’s the deal with large breasted women on the GOP sites?
Speaking of unpopular Republicans, the results are in for the Karl Rove Whack-a-Mole Contest.
August 6th, 2005 at 11:39 amThere you have it NED, Fake & the rest of you blind, vote for the party folks.
August 6th, 2005 at 11:50 amBELIEVE IT!
If his poll numbers drop much further, Homeland Security is going to be forced into calling a code red or whatever to scare us back to “reality.” Were’s that
August 6th, 2005 at 12:10 pmswiftboat bunch when you need them?
Sociopaths don’t tend to view others as “real” and their feelings and needs of course, are perceived as being equally “unreal.” This generation of Americans, I am sorry to say, are a self-absorbed, compassionless, ignorant and hollow bunch who cloak their endless greed for material wealth and power (two things Jesus SHUNNED) behind empty religious rhetoric and call it all “values.”
What a completely empty suit these Americans are.
Well, when Chimpus starts tossing American citizens in concentration… uhm… prison… uhm… labor camps to be farmed out as slave labor to private corporations as the only way to pay your insurmountable and USURIOUS credit debts (or, join the military)every one who isn’t already obscenely wealthy is in for a very rude shock — they mean to regentrify the entire country and impose permanent serfdom on all other Americans, regardless of whether you live in a Red or Blue state.
Then these fools will find that they have elected the leadership you deserve. Hopefully all the liberals and progressives will have long gone for better pastures.
Because anyone who thinks they will be safe is just as ignorant and gullible as the poor citizens of Weimar.
BTW…did you see the Hitler…Uhm…I mean Bush “rally” with the brown shirted youths ..er, that is, the Boy Scouts?
http://www.fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2005/082005/08052005/mercier
Yay nationalism!
Naahhh…it can’t happen HERE!
August 6th, 2005 at 12:14 pmThose aren’t ankles. Those are actually pillows those conservative superman wannabes are biting.
http://www.allspark.com/forums/uploads/post-4-1106180528.jpg
August 6th, 2005 at 1:06 pmThe worst part about the Boy Scout Jamboree was the fact that 300 of them went to the hospital with different degrees of heat stroke while they were waiting for Bush to show up and make a speech. He postponed his trip due to the heat. This only two days after four of their leaders were setting up a tent. Then a few days later, two more get struck by lighting and killed. They need to go home.
August 6th, 2005 at 1:18 pmYou don’t debate with brownshirts. You beat them to death before they do that to you.
August 6th, 2005 at 1:27 pmgood catch! i was reading this link from ‘instaidiot’ yesterday and thought the same thing.
August 6th, 2005 at 1:30 pm#7–I thought we were already “slave labor”; as it takes 2 incomes plus to try to stay above water in this inflated economy; what with increased gas, oil, housing and medical costs gone through the roof!!!
August 6th, 2005 at 1:40 pmI always check out the Free Republic threads when there’s a new post up on Bush’s tanking poll numbers. Those of the paranoid persuasion reject the data outright as propaganda dispensed by the reviled liberal-biased MSM. Those who aren’t of the paranoid persuasion go through all the stages of grief except acceptance. The more politically unsophisticated posters simply say, So what. It’s not as if Bush is running for re-election, and then chant, Go Team Bush. Sad, really.
August 6th, 2005 at 2:08 pmGrace,
That’s because they come to the free republic to reinforce their fantasies, not to learn or teach anything real. The fact that they actually believe the MSM media is liberal tells you how extreme their fantasy is. When they quote the percentage of reporters who vote liberals crap, they always leave out at that the majority of editors and managers are conservative – and THEY set, control and restrict the content – not the reporters…
It’s a convenient lie for radicals so they never have to trust anything other than their own weasily feelings..
August 6th, 2005 at 2:16 pmThe greedy, yet open minded conservatives who run the MSM could teach the progressives a thing or two. They don’t mind opposing viewpoints – business is business – unlike the whiners at public trough TV and radio. Re: that earnings figure for 20% of the population – have you noticed how little public education does for a segment of society that can’t or won’t put in the hard work of showing up and actually doing the work? I know the “elitist” hue and cry will rain down but I’ve dealt with worse. A succinct definition of liberals, “The self-righteous, led by the self-important for the benefit of the self-absorbed.” Happy Saturday to you all!!
August 6th, 2005 at 3:04 pmThey don’t mind opposing viewpoints
This thing has never been to one of Bush’s staged townhall meets on Social Security, has it?
August 6th, 2005 at 3:26 pmSTFU! I can’t laugh that hard. I’m too self-righteous, self-important and self-absorbed!
You know, the original post made a great point. And the point was made with at least some moderation, ahem: “the problem with many conservatives.”
what in the hell happened in a lot of these comments?
I’m really having trouble understanding this. You all are venting, obviously, each in your own ways, and that part I understand.
But what’s with the dirisiveness? (monkeys, sociopaths, idiots and brownshirts?) The violence? (pillow-biting? beating folks to death?) I can’t begin to understand the odd mix of anger, humor? and hyperbole we see in #7. But I know many conservatives would gladly parody your tone and try to use it against you.
Anyway, this is a pretty good website. I would think you’d want conservatives to come here and read what you have to say, instead of having it held in the same regard as the democratic underground.
August 6th, 2005 at 3:26 pmThis administration is and has been an unmitigated flop.
Bush will go down in hsitory as more corrupt than Harding and certainly more destructive than any other,
WAKE UP AMERICA!!!
I do not like this administration because of their damage to America and the rest of the World.
August 6th, 2005 at 3:42 pmRunning the country by opinion polll was tried by clintoon for 8 years, it didn’t work. You lost your chance at trying it again last Nov. get use to it : )
August 6th, 2005 at 4:00 pmYou just keep telling yourself that you moron.
August 6th, 2005 at 4:01 pmSocial Conservative.
August 6th, 2005 at 4:10 pmImagine if you will that the country that you love – a country of freedom and oppurtunity, is taken over by the party of the rich. And while you see more homeless people, and most everyone you personally know is struggling with paying the rent – or fixing the old car. People are unemployed – inflation is moderate on most consumer goods except those you need to survive – MD services, Energy, Gas, housing prices. Schools are in shambles, someone you know loves someone just blown to bits in Iraq – no end in sight. The party in charge passes an Energy bill that gives billions in tax breaks to incredibly wealthy companies, stiffs consumers with a bankruptcy law that does not forgive even active duty soldiers who loose their ability to work due to horrific injuries. A party that takes away overtime from millions while giving billions to a few millionaires. A party of religious fanatics that have made a deal with the devil – the corperatist that is the GOP. A party that has demonstratively lied to you, headed by the most arrogant, yet cerebrally challenged man ever to darken the doorway of the oval office. And almost 1/2 of your fellow countrymen, somehow are blind because they have bought into the catapulting of the propaganda. Yeah – that might drive polls down and some may deal with it with anger, fear and yes comidic satire. We are living in bad times, and W and company have made it much worse.
Social Conservative… is that an olive branch? Ram it.
August 6th, 2005 at 4:30 pm“I would think you’d want conservatives to come here and read what you have to say, instead of having it held in the same regard as the democratic underground.”
Social Conservative
That would be great, if they wouldn’t post their stupid, idiotic, NeoCon, bullshit after they are done reading.
August 6th, 2005 at 4:30 pmRunning the country by opinion polll was tried by clintoon for 8 years
Well, that’s because he was a democratically elected President, and responsive and accountable to the American people, and things worked beautifully and life was good. Anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional, or maybe they just prefer living in a fascist dictatorship and third rate Banana Republic.
Social Conservative,
What’s wrong with Democratic Underground? I’d rather g there than LGF, or FReep or even Red State.org. Getting kind of tired of those places, or does the anger and outrage make you nervous? It should.
August 6th, 2005 at 4:39 pmNah, actually, we don’t give a rat’s ass about “conservatives” like you. You aren’t a real conservative anyway. You wouldn’t know a real conservative from a hole in the ground. The real conservatives have been here for months, at least. They voted for Kerry.
August 6th, 2005 at 4:43 pmThe first and great commandment is: Don’t let them scare you. That’s the commandment these obstreperous reactionaries did not learn. They rant and rave and accuse and deny and . . . They sound like tape players at high volume, same tape, same stuff, dull burlesque. Of whom do they be afraid? as Henry O’Boy used to ask. I guess they like to snarl much more than they like to wonder and try to understand. I defy any one (or all them, what the hell)to define a liberal without turning it into a shouting match in an echo chamber. They just can’t do it because they just don’t know and just don’t want to. They do mirthless slapstick and call it clever. Meanwhile, Halliburton hauls another load away.
August 6th, 2005 at 4:44 pmI think that’s it. They can see the writing on the wall and the right fears a nasty backlash. They will reap what they have sown. Payback is a bitch.
August 6th, 2005 at 4:46 pmThe goal is a real two party system. Not this joke of “Republicans” and Republican lite. Liberal Democrats and Progressives. Maybe after many years in the re-education camps, (prison), we can let Republicrats and conservacrats play again, if they learn to behave. When you control the House, Senate and Executive, and you screw the pooch this bad, you’re lucky to keep your ass out of prison. Most won’t be that lucky. In any case, Republicons are hardly in a position to preach or dictate to anyone about anything.
August 6th, 2005 at 4:58 pmMy goal is the total and permanent destruction of the G0P, but I’m a radical. Make Conservatism History.
August 6th, 2005 at 5:03 pm“The self-righteous, led by the self-important for the benefit of the self-absorbed.�
Gee, Alexa, that sounds like a fairly accurate description of the Bush Republicans: Bush and Rove, etc. (the self-important) leading around Dobson, Falwell, et al (the self-righteous) for the benefit of the self-absorbed (if you’ve ever worked for a large corporation, you know just how thoroughly self-absorbed the top-echelon executives are, and let’s not leave out the Big Money crowd on Wall Street).
I have no problem with honest conservatives; I may disagree with them, but they are generally sane and we can hold a conversation. This crew of crazed Christo-neocons, though, are a different story entirely. They are as unAmerican and greedy as they come and have no respect for our traditions of free speech, equal justice, free thought, fair play and religious independence. They want a plutocratic theocracy, with themselves at the head, and they will employ any sleazy tactic to achieve it; they also think they are incapable of making a mistake. Instead of reason and rationality, they embrace a system of sometimes contradictory ‘beliefs’ based on pure hot air. It’s nice to have faith; better to have faith based on logic and reality. Real conservatives (I know a few) are embarrassed by these loudmouthed chowderheads.
The understanding they display of the Constitution and the teachings of Jesus you could lose in a thimble and still have room, and they think Bush can do no wrong.
You seem to be reasonably intelligent: are these really the kind of people you support?
August 6th, 2005 at 5:12 pmAnd so it begins…
What were you saying, Social Conservacrat?
United, not divided
A Kentucky man defended freedom on the homefront:
“A quarrel between two firearms vendors at a Floyd County flea market on Thursday allegedly led both men — described as “good friends” — to draw guns. Douglas Moore, 65, of Martin, who supports the [Iraq] war, shot and killed Harold Wayne Smith, 56, of Manchester, who opposed it, investigators said.”
http://wirecan.blogspot.com/2005/08/united-not-divided.html
http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/news/state/12317968.htm
August 6th, 2005 at 5:21 pmYou seem to be reasonably intelligent: are these really the kind of people you support?
I don’t think intelligence is so easily measured and quantified. Most of the stuff these morons spout is crap they have plagerized from the more erudite morons at their usual right wing dunghill. To credit this thing with the creativity and originality of the ideas and memes it parrots is to assume more than one should. It’s cmment is glib and snarky, but it’s not accurate or true.
August 6th, 2005 at 5:28 pmPhil, Phil, Phil, don’t u know that, according to Rickyboy Santorum, all those mothers waiting tables for tips are just being greedy?? More Kool-aid, anyone?
August 6th, 2005 at 5:42 pmAre you saying my mama’s greedy? Bastard!
August 6th, 2005 at 5:49 pmLast night I was looking at the demographics of two small towns that are home to my family and that of a friend of mine. One is in Tennessee and the other in Ohio. In both towns, over 20% of the inhabitants are below the poverty line, including around 33% of elderly and children.
In my family, in that little town, one cousin was just put back in jail and another just lost her house due to her meth problem. Someone broke into her mother’s house, next door, recently, and I’m sure it was one of her drug friends.
Small towns are now beset with maladies we still associate with inner-city ghettos. These days, Eb would need to hire Mr. Douglas to represent him in Hooterville County Court on charges of trafficking in Oxycontin.
Why isn’t Bo-bo writing about those small town Red-staters?
August 6th, 2005 at 5:56 pmShoeless,
While I agree that the Kentucky incident shows the violence that is so part of the chickenhawk fear based radical rigth – does anyone else see the irony in an anti-war gun dealer? Now I’m happy he support(ed) a liberal agenda – but that was a bit of a mental disconnect… I expect that kind of hypocrisy on the right as they’re never consistent in their values – but it’s sad when I see it in a liberal..
August 6th, 2005 at 6:07 pmFalling, Falling, Falling… Bush in the Polls
August 6th, 2005 at 6:08 pmhttp://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?p=166
#21 Nordull
August 6th, 2005 at 6:17 pmYou said it all. No name calling, just the facts. Most Americans are struggling to keep afloat but the leaders of the party in power don’t see it, don’t think about it, and worse, they don’t care. Bush is loyal to his supporters – the ones that gave him $$. He enjoys the false portrayal of him, developed by Karl Rove, wherein he walks and talks like an “everyday guy.” He has never earned an honest dollar. He has never earned an honest grade. Every business he had went belly-up, even the ones financed by his father’s friends, King Saud and Prince Bandar. He escaped scrutiny by the SEC for insider trading because his father was friendly with the chairman.
These are merely gool ol’boys, back-scratching one another, never giving a second thought to the folks who have to work hard every day, who can’t afford luxuries like college, who have little or no health insurance in their low paying jobs, but who believe this man because he says he is on a “divine” mission.
The MSM reports the falling popularity of Bush, but they always frame it with the conservative excuses, softening the blow a bit. The media has been purchased by the administration, the consolidation of communication broadcasters with many radio stations, television channels, cable networks, news magazines, and newspapers being owned by a small group of Republican/conservatives.
August 6th, 2005 at 6:29 pmWatch for it – the next time a Democrat tries to present a plan for a social issue, his words will be challenged by either a Republican counterpart or the anchor/interviewer him/herself; that is, if the Democrat is able to get before a camera or microphone in the first place. Democrats’ words are parsed and dissected, even by their own at times, whereas Republicans’ words are seldom challenged, no matter how outrageous at times, and the party circles the wagons around him, fending off any opposing word.
When the low and middle class Americans realize that they have been deceived by the administration – as is beginning now – their voices will grow louder. As that happens, watch the MSM slo-o-wly become a little less Republican, as they recognize that their boy may have ended the Republican control and they had better try to mend fences with the Democrats. After all, profits are their ultimate goal.
August 6th, 2005 at 6:35 pmThanks, RS -for responding intelligently. There is much I agree with the Bush administration on – I view the current war as a World War. In my view this enemy cannot be placated or negotiated with – my late Sociology professor would be rollong in his grave. The people we are battling are stuck in medieval times and force is the only effective response. My most vehement disagreement with the President (and a bipartisan contingent in Congress) is the lack of will displayed to shore up our borders. Any proponent of “open borders” will rue the day an enemy combatant makes their way through Windsor, Ontario or Neuvo Laredo, Mexico.
August 6th, 2005 at 6:39 pmWait until they see the Newsweek poll that came out today on msnbc.com. His approval rating for Iraq is 34%.
August 6th, 2005 at 6:53 pmnordull, Marie,
August 6th, 2005 at 7:01 pmcheck out the dvd “The Corperation”, it will make your spine shudder and leave you absolutely ape sh*t.
Corperations have one goal – make money. It is an amoral beast – that WILL and HAS killed people for profit – and it is clear that a bevy of corperations have taken over all levers of government – except the Judicial branch – but they are working on that too. These companies are multinational, and have no alligiance to our beloved country. The busy masses are starting to pay a little attention, and the relentless B.S. this administration has and is delivering is starting to break through. Soon only the hard core Fascist that actually admit they are Facsist will be the only people on GWs PLUS column.
all i have to say is yikes.
we have “stalin” here talking about re-education camps and declaring the onset of some sort of civil war for the emotionally disturbed.
we have another fellow that actually told me to ram an olive branch into my anus.
meanwhile, I just might be unintelligent, because I don’t have a clue how Harding was a corrupt president.
August 6th, 2005 at 7:07 pmThis argument makes no sense. Why? Because cliche Bush-hating liberals could not understand how “struggling” America could vote for Bush.
America is also not struggling, Mexico is struggling. Let’s get some perspective supposed learned liberals.
August 6th, 2005 at 7:26 pmMany people in this country have begun waking up. That is what the poll numbers mean to me. However, the subtler layers of political reality lay undiscovered by the vast majority of Americans.
Under the guise of national security, our country is now a police state. Under the pretense of security, everyone is now a suspect. There is no privacy. There is no private property. There is no Justice. You own nothing. You are nothing. You are the Terrorist!
*The worst forms of tyranny, or certainly the most successful ones, are not those we rail against but those that so insinuate themselves into the imagery of our consciousness, and the fabric of our lives, as not to be perceived as tyranny.***
– Michael Parenti –
An illusion has been carefully crafted, over many years to enslave the American People.
This is no conspiracy theory. It is History! If you really care about your country, you will start educating yourself. We have become complacent and lazy as a people and our government is the result.
My faith is not invested into one party or another but, in the American People to take back their government. Stop buying into the false paradigms. Buzzwords like, left and right, conservative and liberal only serve to divide us as People. We quibble over the last slice of pie, while they dismantle our house! Wake up!
Start thinking about what is really important; Our Freedom!
August 6th, 2005 at 7:27 pmwatch as they spew talking points.
August 6th, 2005 at 7:33 pmThe headline “sinking in the polls” would make a great song parody. Of Singing in the Rain, of course.
That would be a funny video, too. if done right.
yazmatazz | Email | Homepage | 08.06.05 – 5:26 pm | #
SINKIN’ IN THE POLLS
Written by Mark “Doris Day� Prime
Sung by George and Dick
Inspired by yazmatazz
SINKIN’ IN THE POLLS
August 6th, 2005 at 7:34 pmI’m sinkin’ in the polls!
Just sinkin’ in the polls!
What a horrible feelin’!
I’m un-happy again!
I’m cryin’ in my bunker,
there’s no light from above,
but the sun’s in my heart!
Come on `merica! Where’s the love?
Let Air Force One chase
everyone else from this place!
Come on with my plane!
I have a frown on my face!
I walk on the brick
With my vice presidential Dick!
And… and… and we’re sinkin’,
just sinkin’ in the polls!
We’re sinkin’ in the polls!
Just sinkin’ in the polls!
What a horrible feelin’!
To be unhappy again!
We’re pacin’ to and fro’,
In our bunker down below
Darkness’ hidden at our core
Now we’re ready for some war!
Let the Air Force One chase
everyone else from this place!
Come on with our plane!
We have a frown upon our face!
We pace to and fro’
In our bunker down below
With a sad refrain
And we’re sinkin’ in the polls
Just sinkin’ in the polls
Just sinkin’ in the polls
Sinkin’ in the polls….
that is where you are wrong Lyle. If one was to assume that the elections were not rigged by Diebold, then I suppose one can also say that many “struggling” Americans voted against there self interest because they were made fools of. Kerry talks about a “global test” – it was a coloqialism for “everyone” agrees we are acting morally and ethically before we attack a nation that has not attacked us. Cheney and Bush go around saying “Senator Kerry would ask France permission before defending America” and the sound bite masses hisses at Kerry. Maybe Lyle you do not know what it is like to forgo dental work ’cause it is more important you pay for utility bill. Good you, but many are not so fortunate and millions more live pay check to pay check. We are becoming like Mexico. Single party rule, aristocratic with a few very wealthy people and millions living in poverty. But at least Mexico provides health care. How can you look at the presidential debates and not see what a buffoon GW was in all three debates. “what about Poland!?, dont’ forget Poland?!” as he arrogantly struts and runs over the moderator. Clearly a can short of a six pack.
August 6th, 2005 at 7:39 pmAmerica is also not struggling, Mexico is struggling.
Mexico is not at war. I guess this moron doesn’t consider war a “struggle”. Why should he? He doesn’t have to fight it or pay for it. Poor folks and suckers are bleeding and dying so he can stay on line all day and lecture us “terrist” sympathizers. His kids and grandkids will have to pay for it. But hey! What him worry?
August 6th, 2005 at 7:46 pmWe are becoming like Mexico? You mean thousands of unemployed Americans are fleeing to Canada or even Mexico to fin work so they can send back to their hometown so people can survive there?
Who cares about these polls. “Struggling” America voted for Bush in 2004 and he won’t be needing “struggling” America to re-elect him. He can lead and govern unpopularly all he wants.
Just this week he got CAFTA passed, put in Bolton, and jobs were increased by 200,000 + .
August 6th, 2005 at 7:47 pmJust this week he got CAFTA passed, put in Bolton, and jobs were increased by 200,000 + .
Comment by Lyle  August 6, 2005 @ 7:47 pm
August 6th, 2005 at 7:49 pmspew those talking points buddy. Rush would be proud.
cause NAFTA was great for this country right?
August 6th, 2005 at 7:49 pmLyle appreciates homoesexual plants in the white house press corps. hes all about gay rights in that way, hahahahahaha.
August 6th, 2005 at 7:50 pmI came at this from another right wing blog from another slightly different angle.
In that case, it was Powerline…who wonders why we don’t cheer fearless leader’s great leap forward.
August 6th, 2005 at 7:51 pmYou made my point Lyle. You just descibed how perfectly you accept the concept of Fascism.
King Bush. Heil Bush! You are a true boot licker
and believer are’nt you?
CAFTA will simply create slave labor for corperations, and less Americans will have jobs. I do not think Americans would be running to Canada or Mexico. They will simply start taking the shit jobs and dying from lack of health care. The right wing will whip up anti-immigrant feelings – as we will compete for the burger/lettuce picking jobs with them.
August 6th, 2005 at 7:58 pmYou should not be so arrogant, if you work for a living – sh*t can come crashing down upon you as well. Personally I hope it does, then maybe you will get a clue.
Fox News is my favorite source of news. seriously.
August 6th, 2005 at 8:01 pm#41 ALEXA – “The people we are battling are stuck in medieval times and force is the only effective response. “
Wrong again:
“Gen. Richard B. Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told the National Press Club on Monday that he had “objected to the use of the term ‘war on terrorism’ before, because if you call it a war, then you think of people in uniform as being the solution.” He said the threat instead should be defined as violent extremists, with the recognition that “terror is the method they use.”
Although the military is heavily engaged in the mission now, he said, future efforts require “all instruments of our national power, all instruments of the international communities’ national power.” The solution is “more diplomatic, more economic, more political than it is military,” he concluded. ”
New Name for ‘War on Terror’ Reflects Wider U.S. Campaign
August 6th, 2005 at 8:02 pmBy ERIC SCHMITT and THOM SHANKER
Published: July 26, 2005
NY TIMES
no doubt Lyle.
August 6th, 2005 at 8:03 pmFox News is my favorite source of news. seriously.
Comment by Lyle  August 6, 2005 @ 8:01 pm
No wonder you are an idiot.
August 6th, 2005 at 8:07 pmi too get horny from Fox News Channel.
August 6th, 2005 at 8:10 pmFox has a nice balance of balanced delivery on some shows mixed with propogandists and token black people on other shows. It is more or less no better than any other MSM.
August 6th, 2005 at 8:11 pmcould’nt resist now could you sjs?
FOX news the Pravda News of the new fascist nation.
Fox news – whose viewers believe “facts” that are not facts at all.
My brother in law is such a sheep too.
August 6th, 2005 at 8:12 pmIt’s all crap. I get my news from the BBC the web and blogs.
August 6th, 2005 at 8:13 pmI couldn’t resist, but I was pretty sure someone stole his name and posted that for fun.
August 6th, 2005 at 8:14 pm#58 is not my post.
you people are crazy though. i’m not a republican, nor am i against gay rights. nothing i’ve said implies i am republican or homophobic. i’m a independent. i like both parties just fine.
everytime i go to new orleans i stay over at a gay couple’s house. my godfather was also gay. and i know lots of gays and have been to gay clubs.
nobody has answered my point about America not being anything like Mexico. Mexico is a dump and that’s why millions or Mexicans migrate into the U.S. to work in “struggling” America.
i also don’t listen Rush, although i do actually turn to FOX news sometimes, but i run through all the tv stations not just FOX. my first read each morning is the New York Times.
whatever though. the point still stands, Bush’s “unpopularity” is coming after the election. “struggling” america voted for bush and he governs regardless of what people think about him on any given week.
August 6th, 2005 at 8:15 pmI agree Brian, if it is not political news they are as good/bad as any other media. It is the blatant lies told by people like O’Rielly and Hannity that makes it such a joke. For those of us who know they are lying, no problem – but too many actually believe the b.s.
August 6th, 2005 at 8:15 pmyeah, i did, but you know his stupid sheep like ass watches Fox News. you just know it.
August 6th, 2005 at 8:16 pmDemocracy Now! with Amy Goodman, INN world report both on FREE SPEECH TV.
August 6th, 2005 at 8:16 pmMosaic on LINK TV.
BEST NEWS, both on DISH SAT AND DIRECT TV SAT
Lyle, you dont believe in voter fraud huh? you that naive?
August 6th, 2005 at 8:17 pmI watch Amy. That’s one domestic source worth watching for sure.
Goddamn Commies!
Top GOPer joins battle over Wal-Mart & health care
Big news – according to the Associated Press, Idaho’s Republican House Speaker Bruce Newcomb is “mulling a proposal that could require businesses to provide employees with insurance, or reimburse Idaho for publicly funded health care costs.” His target is Wal-Mart, which regularly pays its workers so badly states are forced to foot the bill for Medicaid for Wal-Mart workers. “Rather than taxpayers subsidizing the wealthiest family in the world, maybe the wealthiest family in the world ought to reimburse Medicaid,” Newcomb told the Idaho Statesman.
To have a top Republican now saying what progressives have been saying for years is a tremendous step. The key here will be whether Newcomb’s proposal makes sure to hit big-box stores, rather than small businesses, which often operate on very small margins. Wal-Mart is one of the wealthiest companies in the world, and has positively no excuse for paying its workers so poorly.
http://www.workingforchange.com/blog/index.cfm?mode=entry&entry=888A27A5-CA51-0131-1E9D120F0470747A
August 6th, 2005 at 8:19 pmFox ALWAYS has a rightie slant. ALWAYS. its not just Hannity and Orielly, it the “journalists” as well. just look at the content they shoose to cover. who covered the Downign Stret Memo the least out of the big 3? Fox. who covered the CIA leak the least and downplayed it the most? Fox. who covers Bushs ass more than any other network? Fox.
August 6th, 2005 at 8:19 pmJust because as you say Mexico is a dump we should aspire to be like it? There is no work, so for these people making the mimnimum wage we have is actually acceptable to them. As the prevailing wages drop in this country, soon the compitition from sheeple that voted for Bush will stem the flow. But I for one concede your point Lyle – he governs anyway. But we do not have to like it.
August 6th, 2005 at 8:20 pmI know what you are Lyle. Independent is what your voter reg says. You are anything but independent. You are an idiot who hasn’t thought for himself in years.
August 6th, 2005 at 8:22 pmThe NYTimes
How to read the NYTimes:
New York Times, 229 West 43rd Street, New York NY 10036, Tel: 212-556-1234.
The world’s most powerful newspaper needs no introduction to users of NameBase. As its enemies never tire of pointing out, the “Times” does more than simply report and comment on the news; it defines the limits of acceptable discourse, “the news that’s fit to print,” for our culture at large. In 1961, for example, James Reston decided, on grounds of Establishment solidarity, to suppress a detailed story about the imminent U.S. invasion of Cuba — a decision that President Kennedy later regretted. But this decision was no anomaly for the “Times.” A couple of decades later, for instance, Raymond Bonner persisted in reporting on the gothic crimes of U.S. client states in Central America — and soon found himself replaced by more tractable correspondents. And so it goes.
As a result, the best way to interpret many stories in the “Times” is to follow the backwards procedure that used to be recommended to readers of “Pravda”: use the contrary opinions and inconsistent facts buried at the end of the story as the key to interpret the claims of the lead paragraph. Thus economic mavericks — and ordinary people — had the U.S. economy of the 90s psyched out way ahead of “leading analysts” cited by the “Times.”
August 6th, 2005 at 8:25 pmThe Bushlickers are torn on poor America.
On the one hand they relied on Hillbilly Nation voting for Lil’ George, yet they Dallas Country Club crowd has comtempt for the very folks that helped elect him twice.
Suffice to say conservative haven’t dealt with the issue of class.
Never mind raacism, sexism and homophobia — class really sends them off the cliff.
. . .
August 6th, 2005 at 8:29 pmshoeless joe,
i haven’t thought for myself in years? where is that coming from? how would you know?
i disagree with you and therefore i’m an idiot? how brilliant!
dude, i read everything from the Nation to the National Review and i am quite aware of what is going on in the world. that’s why i know America isn’t struggling like Mexico or Niger. the silliness of this thread is that it is pointless. it’s just a hip, hip hurrah we hate Bush and his poll numbers are low, yay!!!
it means nothing cause he doesn’t have to be re-elected since he was elected by “struggling” Americans in the last election. he is doing his thing regardless of you and lots of other people not liking him. that’s called leadership.
jackoff at the poll numbers if you must, but Bush will still be President tommorrow and the day after.
August 6th, 2005 at 8:53 pmthats called Dictatorship you sheep.
August 6th, 2005 at 8:59 pmum… ROFL! Good one dicky
August 6th, 2005 at 9:02 pmI have a question for our “Conservative” friends.
Can you provide me with one example of where Bush might have screwed up? Just one. I know you can do it.
August 6th, 2005 at 9:03 pmYea Lyle, but it is fun to watch the angry screaming mob chase him through the streets with torchlights and pitchforks as he tries to escape to Dr. Frankensteins castle. ANnHHHHH
August 6th, 2005 at 9:06 pmI’m sorry, Lyle. No one with a functioning brain voted for that ‘tard. I’m pretty sure you did.
August 6th, 2005 at 9:09 pmOh, and he’s still got quite a ways to go. If there is any justice in this world, he will resign before being impeached. Look for President Ted Stevens to finish out the remainder of the term because Cheney and Hastert have legal problems of their own.
August 6th, 2005 at 9:12 pmnevermind that 9/11 happened on Bush’s watch, and his administration/business partners benefited from it more than anyone. that dont mean shit to a sheep like you though does it Lyle?
August 6th, 2005 at 9:19 pmhaha… people think bush will be impeached!!! too funny.
i have a functioning brain and many college degrees and voted for bush. and the sky hasn’t fallen yet.
what also makes this thread worthless is that republican talk about how bush makes mistakes all the time. pat buchanan thinks bush f’d up with iraq. bush is hated for not shooting mexican illegals on the border. republicans pissed on pictures of bush when he chose john roberts to be on the supreme court. the list goes on.
you people also need to understand that some us bush voters don’t think he messed up with iraq at least with going ahead with the invasion. we wanted the invasion. we think it moral and just. we are glad an authoritarian goverment we once supported is no more.
August 6th, 2005 at 9:20 pmcalling people sheep is belittling and anti-intellectual, and borderline fascist.
don’t burn me, i’m not a witch!!!
August 6th, 2005 at 9:25 pmwe are glad an authoritarian goverment we once supported is no more.
That’s what they will say about me after I’m impeached or pre-emptively resign. It’s the Bush doctrine, ya know.
August 6th, 2005 at 9:26 pmLyle your stupidity is breathtaking. What exactly was moral and just about attacking a third rate nation like Iraq? Because somehow our oil slipped under their ground? The original story was WMD – where is it Lyle?
August 6th, 2005 at 9:29 pmAl-Queda connection. nope. Oh because he is a bad dictator? What about all the other bad dictators?
You sobs that support Bush always conveniently do mention that Saddam was at his worse – with our support. Was’nt bad when he was doing our bidding now was he? I do not agree with Buchananon on much but that Bush fk up in Iraq is an understatement to say the least. Nice comment about shooting illegals – add racist to your list of qualities a-hole.
Don’t act and regurgitate talking points like a sheep then Lyle.
August 6th, 2005 at 9:31 pmI have many sheepskins on the wall! That proves I are smart and a sheep!
August 6th, 2005 at 9:32 pmAbsolutely Dicky, Saddam and al Qaida had no, zero, nadda connections, that is why Clinton bombed al-Shifa, Saddam gave refuge to Yassin and had top level officials meet at least 8 known times, and the Lib drum beats on, and on and on
August 6th, 2005 at 9:33 pmIt was moral and just! I didn’t say it was legal! I’m a veterinarian! Vegetarian?
August 6th, 2005 at 9:34 pmSo, The President has made no mistakes?
I’m sorry but that strains credulity beyond all reason.
Patriotism means love of ones Country, not love of the Government.
Here is some wisdom from a long dead Idealog very much like the Neo-Cons, who turned a peaceful republic into the most bloodthirsty, tyrannical society on earth.
Beware of the leader, who strikes the war drum in order to transfer the citizens into patriotic glow; patriotism is indeed a double-sided sword. It makes the blood so boldly, like it constricts the intellect. And if the striking of the war drum reached a fiebrige height and the blood is cooking and hating, and the intellect is dismissed, the leader doesn’t need to reject the citizen’s rights. The citizens, caught by anxiety and blinded through patriotism, will subordinate all their rights to the leader and this even with happy courage. Why do I know that? I know it, because this is, what I did. And I am Gajus Julius Cäsar.
August 6th, 2005 at 9:35 pmClinton is not in the white house, typical right wing non sequitor. Your dimwitted President is. Bi Laden HATED the apostate Saddam you moron. Meetings do not mean sh*t, results from meetings do and there was none. Since you decided to add your so faw worthless 2-cents strathmore – answer the question I posed the other idiot lyle or foff.
August 6th, 2005 at 9:36 pmWhy is not this site entitled “ThinkComplaining”?
August 6th, 2005 at 9:37 pmreal knee slapper strathmore. If you want to blather and kiss Ws ass go to a blog that will have other idiots like you. Should we just shut up and take it while your ilk destroys our country? We have plenty to protest and complain about. Hell the right wing controls everything and yet their blogs are also filled with complaints. Of course you would not notice that, would you. Noticed you failed to address any quetions – pick up your color crayons and go home.
August 6th, 2005 at 9:42 pmWe are law and order folks here. You break the law, you go to prison.
http://rawstory.com/news/2005/British_U.S._justification_for_increased_prewar_bombing_foun_0804.html
Special to RAW STORY. Michael Smith writes for the London Sunday Times. He broke the Downing Street Memo story.
Britain and America’s reasons for stepping up bombing of Iraq in the ten months leading up to the war in Iraq was a sham, official figures released by the British Ministry of Defense show.
U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, and Geoff Hoon, his UK counterpart, said the stepped-up attacks by U.S. and Royal Air Force aircraft patrolling the southern no-fly zone were a response to increased attacks by Iraqi air defences.
The minutes of a meeting of Tony Blair’s Iraq war cabinet on July 23, 2003, leaked to the London Sunday Times, record Hoon as saying “the US had begun spikes of activity to put pressure on the regime.�
UK ministers have since insisted that the stepped up attacks, which began in May 2002, were a direct result of Iraqi attempts to shoot down allied aircraft and were not, as Hoon suggested, an attempt to provoke a response that would give the allies an excuse for war.
But figures released last month by the British Ministry of Defense show that in the immediate aftermath of the Sept. 11 attacks, with American officials predicting moves to oust Saddam Hussein, Iraq dramatically scaled back its attacks on allied aircraft.
During the first seven months of 2001 the allies recorded 370 “provocationsâ€? by the Iraqi military against allied aircraft. But in the seven months between October 2001 and May 2002 when the allies stepped up their attacks, there were just 32. The complete figures are available here, on the parliament’s website.
The number of recorded threats dropped markedly in October 2001, the first full month after the Sept. 11 attacks, from 24 in September to just eight in October.
With U.S. officials openly predicting that an attack on Afghanistan would be followed by an invasion of Iraq, the number of recorded threats kept dropping.
By February 2002, there were just two, in March none and in April again two. Such was the reduction in the number of Iraqi threats that in the six months leading up to the “spikes of activity� British aircraft did not at any point need to respond in self-defence.
In May, after Rumsfeld ordered the allied attacks be stepped up, the Iraqi responses rose to 20, leading to yet further allied attacks.
Sir Menzies Campbell, the Liberal Democrat Foreign Affairs spokesman, who obtained the British data using written parliamentary questions, said it reinforced the need for an inquiry into the conduct of ministers in the run-up to the war.
“Taken together with the leaked minutes of the July 23rd meeting, these figures simply destroy the Government’s case,� he said. “None of the inquiries have ever properly focused on the conduct of ministers. It is high time that we had an inquiry which did.�
The stepped-up attacks on Iraq’s air defences are now widely seen by military analysts as the start of the air war, exposing both Blair and President George W Bush to allegations that they acted illegally.
The “spikes of activity� began just weeks after Blair and Bush agreed to use military action to bring about regime change in Iraq, something that at the time was illegal under British interpretation of international law.
A Cabinet Office briefing paper for the July 23 meeting, which was also leaked to the Sunday Times, stated that at a summit with Bush in Crawford, Texas, in April 2002, Blair said “the UK would support military action to bring about regime change.�
Lord Goldsmith, Attorney-General, did not advise that military action against Iraq was legal until Mar. 7, 2003, ten months after the allies stepped up their attacks on the Iraqi air defences.
Congress, which under the US constitution has to give its backing before the President can order military action, did not do so until October 2002. The war officially began Mar. 21, 2003.
August 6th, 2005 at 9:54 pmUnprovoked bombing before war is declared or Congress has authorized it. Sounds like terrorism to me.
August 6th, 2005 at 9:57 pm????? what ????? you mean W bombing Iraq without a declaration of war from Congress?
August 6th, 2005 at 9:59 pmComment #90 and #92 are not mine.
The Iraq war was moral and just. I didn’t support the war because of WMD. I supported the war because the consequence would be the end of Saddam Hussein.
We supported Saddam Hussein in the past, therefore we had an obligation to remove him. We had been at war with him since 1991. We operated the no-fly zones in northern Iraq and southern Iraq that whole time, i.e., war. Iraq was something we were engaged in, unlike say Iran.
Furthermore just because we invaded Iraq doesn’t mean we need to invade China or North Korea or whomever. That’s absurd. One task at a time. And certain situations required different solutions. War is good in some cases, like Iraq, and bad in others, like China.
The world is black and white people.
Also… Saddam Hussein did have terrorist connections, like Abu Nidal and had aided al Qaeda obliquely (not for 9/11, but generally). What is important though is that the Middle East status quo needed to change and invading Iraq was the best way to do this, regardless of no link to 9/11.
August 6th, 2005 at 10:03 pm#97 is not mine
August 6th, 2005 at 10:04 pmThe point Lyle is that your boy king LIED to the American people. Bastards like Limbaugh and Hannity shouted down liberals – with WMD WMD WMD. Never did he say he was taking the bastard Saddam out because he was a frankenstien we created and therefore had to remove. As for why Iraq. Because he was doable.
August 6th, 2005 at 10:13 pmBecause Bush wanted to be a War president. But mostly because a-holes who signed up for PNAC felt it was the first step in establishing an American empire.
Saddam’s only terrorist connection was the 25K he gave to the suicide bombers families plaguing Israel.
F**K Isreal I do not want to sacrifice a single American life for them. Not our problem. I do not agree that attacking that prick was the best way to change the status quo in the middle east. The best way to do that was to finnish off Bin Laden and work your way down the chain of command – not go down the rat hole in Iraq. Your Fuehrer – said “dead-or-alive” then lost interest. And you think that is ok?
One more thing it is thinking like the “world is black and white” that makes embiciles like you so dangerous. The world is anything but that – the shades of gray abound. Otherwise how do you reconcile in your mind that removing Saddam is right (white) and if in the process hundreds to thousands of innocent civilians get killed – hey the world is black and white.
As for why not China? Why because they can hit us back?
August 6th, 2005 at 10:22 pmLyle, Your comment: “The world is black and white people.â€? speaks volumes to me about how you think.
The world is not black and white as you so narrowly put it. It only appears that way when one refuses (or is congenitally predisposed) to see the World in such stark terms.
You fail to see the truth because it is a self defense mechanism. It would traumatize your psyche to discover a flash of blue or a streak of green. The world would no longer make sense. Your ideology would crumble and you would float away, anchorless in a vast sea of previously unseen truth.
August 6th, 2005 at 10:24 pm#44–It is not so much Harding’s being corrupt, for he was a lazy, inattentive man–he gave us “normalcy” because “normality” was too much for him– except when he was chasing tail, playing poker, and sucking up booze, but here are some names from his cabinet and connections that will make clear how corrupt was his administration. Good old boys, mostly, who as friends and associates of the finest looking ignoramus to occupy the White House until George W. Bush moved in. Look up the history notes on Charles R. Forbes, Albert B. Fall, John W. Thompson of the firm of Thompson & Kelly of Boston, Charles F. Cramer, and Daniel R. Crissinger just for starters (oh, and do some reading on the Teapot Dome scandal). Talk about looting and pillaging. The Harding Administration gave us some of the finest wanted posters to grace the police records. The crash of 1929 sent the brigands into the shadows, but the victory in 1945 ushered in the dawn of new and more potent darkness. Beware. They have your children and grand children in their sights.
August 6th, 2005 at 10:34 pmEvery America should be concerned with the ReichWing extremists that have taken-over this country. I am sure that in the early stages of Hitler and the Nazi’s, Germans saw nothing wrong with the Nazi movement and Hitler’s views. BusHitler, and his administration are trying to takeover the world, make no mistake about it. I would even bet that Hitler told the German’s that, America hated them for, (Whatever their form of freedom was), Russia hated them, Poland, France and every country that complained about the Nazi take over hated them. In either case world domination can only be achieved when you use propaganda against your own people to convince them that your view is the “Reich” view the only view and if you don’t have that view then you must be a “Jew Sympathizer” or a “Terrorist Sympathizer” Wake up America, how long can you pretend to be Asleep?
August 6th, 2005 at 10:37 pmEvery American should be concerned with the ReichWing extremists that have taken-over this country. I am sure that in the early stages of Hitler and the Nazi’s, Germans saw nothing wrong with the Nazi movement and Hitler’s views. BusHitler, and his administration are trying to takeover the world, make no mistake about it. I would even bet that Hitler told the German’s that, America hated them for, (Whatever their form of freedom was), Russia hated them, Poland, France and every country that complained about the Nazi take over hated them. In either case world domination can only be achieved when you use propaganda against your own people to convince them that your view is the “Reich” view the only view and if you don’t have that view then you must be a “Jew Sympathizer” or a “Terrorist Sympathizer” Wake up America, how long can you pretend to be Asleep?
August 6th, 2005 at 10:37 pmdicky and misterb,
actually i meant to say the world isn’t black and white. that’s because the people see it as bush bad, anti-bush good. i’m not the one who sees things as black and white, and that is why i supported the iraq war. preventing saddam from obtaining or having wmds was a good reason to invade iraq, but a better reason for me to support it was because Saddam was a son of a bitch.
you people call me all the names you won’t, but it won’t make my valid points go away.
August 6th, 2005 at 10:38 pmdicky,
and we don’t need to attack China because it would be foolhardy unlike invading iraq. china is changing itself from within over time, iraq wasn’t doing this. iraq was static; china is dynamic.
although one day we may war with china if they in fact do not change, although from studying there i’d bet the drop the one party rule eventually.
August 6th, 2005 at 10:40 pmLyle,
What can you possibly be thinking, there are a lot of (SOB’s) in this world. Lyle just one question for you are you easily mislead? If so please don’t get in the car with strangers.
August 6th, 2005 at 10:44 pmLyle,
August 6th, 2005 at 10:45 pmWe had Saddam check mated by the no – fly zone, and it was costing less than 1 billion a year. We could have continued this for 200 years before we flushed the money down the rat hole like we did now. You ignore PNAC? Please address PNAC and what you stance is, as
JBs post above indicates this sh*t is real – and people who do see the world as stark as black and white are in control. And yes some of us have children and do not want to usher in armegadon.
i support neo-conservatism. i won’t the people of the world to have self-determination and if america can help these people we should help.
to be against sons of bitches doesn’t mean you have to use violence against them. if you use violence against one of them, that doesn’t mean you have to use violence against all of them. this is not hypocritical or contradictory. we cannot possibly fight everybody everywhere and anytime. diplomacy, time and people movements can do the job as well as war can sometimes. unfortunately war is needed as well.
August 6th, 2005 at 10:49 pmfurthermore neo-conservatism isn’t about America controlling the world, it is about democratizing the world under the aegis of America. that means using American hegemony to end dictatorships and one party systems so the people of the world can be free.
August 6th, 2005 at 10:50 pmLyle why do you diss the one party rule in China – but appear to embrace it here? China is a potentially formidible foe, and GWBs rush to war in Iraq has shown the entire world not just China how limited our great military power is. We would have to go nuclear on their ass – to defeat them and they now know that all to clearly. They have billions of people to waste, we only have a small percentage of that. A nut case leading China that would be willing to go nuclear with us and it’s armageddon all over again.
August 6th, 2005 at 10:52 pmi don’t embrace one-party rule in the united states. i’m quite fine with our two party, occaisional third party system.
remember, there are lots of people like yourself who openly trash Bush. hu jintao wouldn’t tolerate somebody calling him a bastard publicly, and if he knew about it, privately.
August 6th, 2005 at 10:55 pmLyle,
Please enumerate these points to which you are refering.
I’ve seen no valid points made by you in this thread.
The war is bad. You’ve convinced yourself that its ok in order to sleep better at night. Like many, you have shut down your conscience in an act of pure self-preservation. You’re terrified that you might be wrong.
Well Wake UP MAN! If you love freedom, if you love this country, you will listen to what im saying.
The Government is Corrupt and is enslaving us!
August 6th, 2005 at 10:55 pmThe US removed Saddam because he would not play ball with the Oil Industry, that is why he was promoted by the CIA to begin with from 1959, to gain control of Iraq and cooperate . Kept him, to keep IRAN in balance. Later,he would not allow oil co.’s in and wanted to keep the industry nationalized.
August 6th, 2005 at 10:55 pmWe tried to assasinate him, did not work, too hard and well protected. Tried coups, people around him too loyal. Tried kissing his ass by assisting him with Iran, and looking away with the Kurds and Shiites, did not work. Tried to double-cross him by hinting that we would not defend Kuwait in order to provoke him into a war,in the end did not work, affraid to destablize Mid-East by going all the way to Bagdad and Saddam not intimidated. Tried sanctions, did not work, we look bad as humanitarian disaster unfolds. Tried bombing in no-fly zones to provoke, did not bite. Tried scandle, as US pretended to look the other way with Oil for Food scandle. Tried lying about WMD’s to invade, WORKED ,THE OIL IS OURS (oil industry),we will stay till we pump it dry and use it as a base to invade other Mid-East countries set up puppet govt’s and take their oil . Freedom and Democracy for the Iraq people sssssss.
OIL men are behind the whole thing from the begining.
No actually the term neo-conservative comes from the fact that the genesis for the PNAC doctrine comes from wild eyed liberal ideas that the world would be a better place if we were just all democracys. But a careful read of the document – shows that in fact it is about US Empire and influence and the militeristic component of this manifesto enforces it by violence.
August 6th, 2005 at 10:58 pmIt is an arrogant document, it assumes that our way is best and that others with different cultures and religions would embrace it. That is simply not reality and where the disconnect between the world being black and white or shades of grey come in. It is wrong – and so far it has proven itself to be wrong. I do not agree with you at all Lyle – but I appreciate you trying to defend your position.
misterb,
i have no idea what you’re talking about. what points?
i haven’t shut down my conscience. people are killed in war, but the war can still be moral and just and correct. people are dying, which is a serious tragedy, but it’s no reason to say it is wrong. we killed people in Germany and Japan, yet we would never say we shouldn’t have done it, and back then we killed innocent people on purpose which is something we do not do now.
August 6th, 2005 at 10:59 pmLevi,
August 6th, 2005 at 11:00 pmright on – never heard put quite the way you did, but makes a lot of sense. For sure it had nothing to do with the plight of the Iraqi people.
Lyle,
August 6th, 2005 at 11:04 pmGermany and Japan declared war on us – big difference.
The japanese were allready moving towards surrender, we dropped the bomb to show Russia who had the bigger phallus. The two nuclear bombs destroyed far more civilian homes and killed hundreds of thousands of innocents. No other country at the time could hit us back with such a weapon. But times have changed.
Lyle,
Dicky is absolutely correct on this. Go read PNAC for yourself. You should familiarize yourself with the writings of those with whom you have alied so vehemently. Study what they are saying and then contrast it with the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
You must decide to which government you will be loyal.
August 6th, 2005 at 11:05 pmWill you embrace the Despot or will it be liberty!
One more thing Lyle – when we leveled Fallujah – we targetted and killed hundreds of civilians. This is a fact, you might have missed that one due to excessive reliance on Faux News.
August 6th, 2005 at 11:06 pm#73
You’re correct. There is a bias is story selection.
Lyle,
August 6th, 2005 at 11:26 pmScared people voted for Bush. People who have never had their lily white reality terrorized before. Bush is truly feeble-minded, unintelligent, and reckless. Not to mention a hypocrite.
This is the PNAC — Recognize any names?
Project for the New American Century is a non-profit educational organization dedicated to a few fundamental propositions: that American leadership is good both for America and for the world; and that such leadership requires
August 6th, 2005 at 11:29 pmmilitary strength, diplomatic energy and commitment to moral principle.
Elliott Abrams, Gary Bauer
William J. Bennett
Jeb Bush
Dick Cheney
Eliot A. Cohen
Midge Decter
Paula Dobriansky
Steve Forbes
Aaron Friedberg
Francis Fukuyama
Frank Gaffney
Fred C. Ikle
Donald Kagan
Zalmay Khalilzad
I. Lewis Libby
Norman Podhoretz
Dan Quayle
Peter W. Rodman
Stephen P. Rosen
Henry S. Rowen
Donald Rumsfeld
Vin Weber
George Weigel
Paul Wolfowitz
dicky ,
August 6th, 2005 at 11:30 pmnot my original ideas on Iraq.
From the book, “Confessions of an Economic Hit Man” by John Perkins 2004,( Banker and former CIA)
thanks Levi,
August 6th, 2005 at 11:32 pmI believe I saw that guy on C-SPAN, on one of their Book programs. He seemed very credible.
Figures that a convicted felon like Libby would be a signer. Gee you wonder if these guys influenced
August 6th, 2005 at 11:34 pmour path to war. Do mad dogs bite?
If we let them the PNAC will destroy America just like the Nazi’s did Germany.
August 6th, 2005 at 11:35 pmThese idiots are chomping at the bit to use their smaller “tactical” nuclear weapons. Preferably on Iran. These are so called bunker busters to be able to hit Irans alleged nuclear facilities supposedly underground on major cities in Iran. Is’nt that special? It is obvious that we are itching to go to war with Iran – it is also clear that we are mired in Iraq. To have any chance at all we would have to go nuclear. Any wagers as to wether all the countries including China are going to idlely sit tight as nuclear fallout falls on their land? The number of civilians deaths can approach millions. O yeah that’s the ticket. can someone say morons? Or are these guys part of the AntiChrist and disaster is what they seek?
August 6th, 2005 at 11:47 pmi haven’t shut down my conscience. people are killed in war, but the war can still be moral and just and correct.
War has to be legal, or it is just naked aggression. The only moral, just and legal war is a war of self-defense. Iraq fails on all three grounds in that respect. Good-bye.
August 7th, 2005 at 6:22 amLyle is such an idiot. Anyone who defends this naked, illegal and criminal aggression against Iraq, regardless of Saddam’s crimes against his own people, is an idiot and just as bad as Saddam.
August 7th, 2005 at 6:24 amSay What,
That’s a nice fairy tale. The fact of the matter is that Truman’s decision to use the nukes had more to do with making a point to the Russians than anything else, but you believe what you like, and read these if you can find the entire collection of recently discovered censored reports on-line someplace. They were thought lost for 60 years.
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000963439
August 7th, 2005 at 8:21 amSay what,
If you are really interested in the facts about the decision to use the weapons, and how it was ill-advised and a great mistake, and not just the propaganda
Try this site.
http://www.dannen.com/decision/index.html
With respect to Saipan, although similar instances of this occurred on other islands…
Consider the people on the island – and I don’t remember which one it was at this point – who jumped off cliffs in the face of advancing U.S. forces because they believed their government when they heard our forces would do horrible things to them and their children.
http://members.tripod.com/Brian_Blodgett/Saipan.html
Wait until you get a look at those videos and photos that the Pentagon is defying a Judge’s order in refusing to release to the public. Chances are you will wait until you are dead. Do you ever wonder why?
August 7th, 2005 at 8:57 amI am not going to get into an argument with you about “white hats” and “black hats”. No such colored hats exist on any battlefield. Atrocities occur on all sides but they get covered up and the rest of us hear fairy tales.
Considering the conservative penchant for patsies, bromides and platitudes in defence of their articles of faith (if they can rightly be called so), it was getting to be time to resort to innuendo in the hope of getting rational answers for once.
Which Your Correspondent calls “Conservative Brain Twisters!!!”, in case you were wondering.
Proving, beyond all doubt, that you sometimes need to use a “have-you-stopped-beating-your-wife?” approach (and then some, howbeit tempered) to get answers–or try to.
August 7th, 2005 at 9:13 amDicky D,
Merhabba, sounds as if you have never studied about Saddam, here are some facts for this apostate:
1. Decides to build the largest masjid in the world, definitely an apostate???
2. Pens the book Revolution and National Education with pages dedicated to how Islam should be taught and revered in Iraqi school systems.
3. Pens a book about how he is a good Muslim with cover shot of him performing Salaat.
4. Starts massive program to declare himself as the next great Arab Islamic hegemon in the likeness of Sa’d bin Abi Waqqas and how Islam will support his nation, a united Ummah.
I guess also bin Laden hated Saddam so much that he never issued a fatwah stating Iraq and its leader was “jahaliyya” like he did for Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Egypt but instead issued fatwah’s for the protection of Iraq. And AQ never once attacked Iraq, can you say the same for Jordan, the Kingdom or Pakistan????
Look into the mirror when you utter the word idiot.
But really, Dicky, when you get down to it, you and I will always differ because I chose to learn not what idealogues like Chomsky tell me ($100 says you got the bin Laden hated Saddam from Hegemony or Survival, really a classic tell of ignorance) but about Iraq and Saddam itslef. FYI: I never supported Bush and would not, let me know when your head is out of the proverbial sand.
August 7th, 2005 at 9:19 amAnd, Dicky D, why such harsh language from one who “ThinksComplainging” urr I mean “Progress”? Is not the mantra violence is not the answer?
August 7th, 2005 at 9:21 amOne more question Dicky D, did you graduate from High School?
August 7th, 2005 at 9:22 am“Look into the mirror when you utter the word idiot.”
Judicious use of punctuation would make you look less like an idiot yourself.
Citing nonsense from the likes of David Asman, Laurie Mylroie and Jeffrey Goldberg about Saddam’s
August 7th, 2005 at 9:45 am“conversion to radical Islam” turns you back into an idiot in spite of the inclusion of judicious punctuation.
Wow, Narc, shukkran. Now I can sleep easy. First never read any of the people your wrote about. What I did read is Saddam’s books written himself, but you would not understand, and get very detailed accounts from first hand experience.
Saddam never “converted” to radical Islam. First, one reverts to Islam, but apparently you are not a Muslim. Second, the point was Saddam could never be classified as an apostate, Dicky does not even know the meaning of this term in Islam. And, third, I acknowledge I am an idiot, like the rest of us, at least this point I understand.
August 7th, 2005 at 10:00 amAnd how, Narc, could I turn back into an idiot? Is it not the case that once an idiot always an idiot? Or maybe you are referring to when I used to be liberal and progressive….that makes more sense. Allah wiyak, Narci
August 7th, 2005 at 10:04 amNarc,
August 7th, 2005 at 10:11 amWhich one of those links you supplied (and which were helpful, interesting and elucidating) describes Truman using the bomb to threaten the USSR?
The only thing I saw that might have supported that conclusion was from the Soviet side.
The scientist petitions asked that allies be told of the bomb before it was used. If Truman had been threatening Stalin it seems to me he wouldn’t have used such arcane language. He was known as a plain speaker (anyone who called Nixon a son-of-a-bitch gets brownie points in my book), so if he had truly understood the power of the bomb and the consequences of using it, he would have plainly stated that we had an atomic bomb. The Hungarian fellow in the 1960 US News interview clearly stated Truman didn’t understand.
I think that speaks to what I said in the first place. If you can explain to me how it doesn’t, I’d appreciate your help.
The reporter whose papers describe Disease X also speaks to what I said. Most people didn’t understand the repercussions of the bomb the way we now do.
The Saipan blog (and thanks for that, as well, because I was too lazy to look it up for myself)also speaks to what I said about the Japanese deification of Hirohito. These people were hoodwinked by their government much the same way the average neo-con has been hoodwinked by our current government. That’s why they jumped off cliffs. Given that information, what would you have thought about an invasion of the main islands at the time? That was the point I was trying to make about judging history.
The blog you referenced clearly stated that US Marine interpretors using PA systems convinced those who had yet to jump to reconsider. The blog writer himelf called it lemming-like.
My uncle fought on Okinawa. He tells heart-rending stories of our Marines using flame throwers both mounted on Marines and tanks to kill Japanese soldiers who were holding out to the death in caves scattered throughout the island. He doesn’t feel guilty about any of it because people do things in combat they would otherwise never consider. And those of us fortunate enough to have never seen combat are ill-suited to judge.
Our forces also used armored bulldozers to seal off caves and tunnels, thereby trapping and suffocating recalcitrant Japanese soldiers. But it wasn’t as if the Marines enjoyed doing any of this. Horrible to be sure, but what would you have done?
Call it a fairy tale if you wish, but remember that, first and foremost, they started the war.
Strathmore,
August 7th, 2005 at 10:21 amSaddam’s and bin Laden’s mutual enmity were well-known before Bush ran that lame excuse up the flagpole.
An apostate is an apostate is an apostate no matter the religion. I’m a Roman Catholic apostate.
Saddam’s various nods to Islam were a sop in much the same way Bush’s various nods to whatever interest groups support him are sops.
And when you say “reverts” to Islam is your Freud slipping? Does one really have to believe in a return to the 5th century to be a Muslim?
Say What,
I guess you have to do a little more research, and learn to read between the lines. That skill comes with further research and familiarity with the history and subject.
Strathmore,
I’m holding up my 2nd, 3rd and 4th fingers. Read between the lines.
August 7th, 2005 at 10:28 amSay What,
Try starting by googling this.
Gar Alperovitz, The Decision to Use the Atomic Bomb
August 7th, 2005 at 10:31 amRepublicans suffer from classic cognitive dissonance. Look it up and their actions will become clear to you. Of course you always have to factor in white privilege as well.
August 7th, 2005 at 10:31 amYour time is no longer your own. NLRB approves “non-fraternazation” rule. You don’t see what is happening right in front of your eyes.
August 7th, 2005 at 10:40 amhttp://www.americanrightsatwork.org/workersrights/eye7_2005.cfm
Exclusive: CIA Commander: We Let bin Laden Slip Away
August 7th, 2005 at 10:51 amHuff. Post
The CIA is about (again).
From Crooks:http://www.prospect.org/web/page.ww?section=root&name=ViewWeb&articleId=10077
Looks like we need to place Judy in high security. Make sure she doesn’t fall on a shiv…
August 7th, 2005 at 11:01 amSay What,
Revert is to revert to only the words of Allah, recited in the Qu’ran, not to the 5th Century…
Since you make the claim, place a source on the enimity that is so well known, not Chomsky, but a legitimate source, tick, tock, tick, tock…
Narc,
I am an idiot, how many fingers do we have on our hands? Are your starting from the pinky or the other way? I cannot figure out this complicated riddle you have posed…and did not you tell me to get my crayons and leave?
The depths of cerebral posts on this site is unreal, unreal.
August 7th, 2005 at 11:07 amSay What,
Here is a recent short piece by Alperovitz, but read his book.
Hasegawa believes the assurances were taken out of the Potsdam Proclamation precisely because American leaders wanted to have the warning rejected so as to justify the bombing–and, further, that they saw the bomb as a way to end the war before Russia could join the fighting. There is other evidence suggesting that policy makers, especially Secretary of State Byrnes, wanted to use the bomb to “make the Russians more manageable in Europeâ€?–as he told one scientist.
(Full disclosure: My own view–as one of the historians involved in the debate–is that the bombings were unnecessary and that American policy makers were advised at the time that a combination of assurances for the emperor plus the forthcoming Russian declaration of war would likely bring about surrender in the three months available before the invasion could begin. I also believe the evidence is strong, but not conclusive, that American leaders saw the bomb above all as a way to impress the Russians and also as a way to end the war before the Red Army got very far into Manchuria.)
http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0803-26.htm
And this,
http://www.nuclearfiles.org/menu/educators/study-guides/history_decision-to-drop-bomb.htm
August 7th, 2005 at 11:08 amSay What,
If you want to actually wade into the debate
http://www.doug-long.com/index.htm
http://www.doug-long.com/debate.htm
http://www.doug-long.com/marshall.htm
Like I said, there is the truth, then there are fairy tales. When has any government relied on the former?
August 7th, 2005 at 11:23 amlook people. i fell for it. i fell for the whole “terror” thing. im a gullible Bush voter and i voted out of irrational fear of terrorism because im a big pussy. im a loyal Fox News viewer for a reason.
August 7th, 2005 at 11:24 amSaddam was connected to 9/11 because they are all Arabs. thats how us righties see the wrold.
August 7th, 2005 at 11:26 amassmore,
You are the first person to mention Chomsky here as far as I know. I think there are sites devoted to Chomsky bashing. Why don’t you find one. Nobody here gives a rat’s ass about you or your Chomsky obsession.
August 7th, 2005 at 11:27 amScared people voted for Bush. People who have never had their lily white reality terrorized before. Bush is truly feeble-minded, unintelligent, and reckless. Not to mention a hypocrite.
Comment by Brian  August 6, 2005 @ 11:26 pm
August 7th, 2005 at 11:31 amexactly, gullible morons voted for Bush out of irrational fears and a warped sense of the world.most Bush voters like me cant really think for ourselves, and we fall for anything the MSM puts in front of us as fact.we are gullible pussys.
Narc,
Way to stay in character and continue to act like an idiot…hope for you a great day, at least as much as your feeble mind can handle, inshallah….
August 7th, 2005 at 11:34 amAmerica must fight evil with evil. Good guys finish last.
August 7th, 2005 at 11:36 amBin Laden is still free.
August 7th, 2005 at 11:37 amBin Laden is still free……
August 7th, 2005 at 11:37 amBin Laden is still free because he must now attack Saudi Arabia for U.S. Imperialists. Our Holy Democratic Empire is spreading. He is still a CIA asset.
August 7th, 2005 at 11:40 amsaddam not arab
August 7th, 2005 at 11:48 amNarc,
August 7th, 2005 at 11:51 amThanks for the further links. If I’m wrong, I’m wrong and I’ll be the first to admit it.
So are you a professional historian or a history buff?
And I would have appreciated the links quite a bit more had you responded with a little less bitterness and condescension. I hope you someday understand that those two character traits neither win friends nor influence people.
Give us us Free
August 7th, 2005 at 11:51 amsaddam=metrosexual(with a sidearm).
August 7th, 2005 at 11:52 amStrathmore,
August 7th, 2005 at 12:06 pmOsama bin Laden is an Islamist. Saddam is a secular Baathist – an apostate. The pictures of him praying in his jail cell remind me of all those criminals who find Jesus when they’re locked up.
If you want a link, here’s one:
http://www.internationalinterest.com/articles/november2004/november2004leiken.html
You should also read Rushdie’s piece in today’s Washington Post. Perhaps you’re one of those Muslims who think anyone who wasn’t educated in a madrassa should be killed, I don’t know. But that thought keeps rearing its ugly head with each successive post of yours.
It’s unfortunate that Islam has never had an Enlightenment and a Reformation.
Bin Laden is still free because of Bushs war.
August 7th, 2005 at 12:09 pmThank God Osama is free. Free Saddam. The posters here need to be incarcerated in Abu Ghraib or Gitmo.
Get real. All of this sexed-up, anti-Republican so-called ‘intellectual discussion’ vitriole needs to be deep-sixed.
Anybody thinking progressively? NO.
Glad I don’t vote Democrat.
August 7th, 2005 at 12:19 pmthank god osama is free? wow, your a smart one.
August 7th, 2005 at 12:24 pmAug. 15, 2005 issue – During the 2004 presidential campaign, George W. Bush and John Kerry battled about whether Osama bin Laden had escaped from Tora Bora in the final days of the war in Afghanistan. Bush, Kerry charged, “didn’t choose to use American forces to hunt down and kill” the leader of Al Qaeda. The president called his opponent’s allegation “the worst kind of Monday-morning quarterbacking.” Bush asserted that U.S. commanders on the ground did not know if bin Laden was at the mountain hideaway along the Afghan border.
Story continues below ↓
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But in a forthcoming book, the CIA field commander for the agency’s Jawbreaker team at Tora Bora, Gary Berntsen, says he and other U.S. commanders did know that bin Laden was among the hundreds of fleeing Qaeda and Taliban members. Berntsen says he had definitive intelligence that bin Laden was holed up at Tora Boraâ€â€intelligence operatives had tracked himâ€â€and could have been caught. “He was there,” Berntsen tells NEWSWEEK. Asked to comment on Berntsen’s remarks, National Security Council spokesman Frederick Jones passed on 2004 statements from former CENTCOM commander Gen. Tommy Franks. “We don’t know to this day whether Mr. bin Laden was at Tora Bora in December 2001,” Franks wrote in an Oct. 19 New York Times op-ed. “Bin Laden was never within our grasp.” Berntsen says Franks is “a great American. But he was not on the ground out there. I was.”
In his bookâ€â€titled “Jawbreaker”â€â€the decorated career CIA officer criticizes Donald Rumsfeld’s Defense Department for not providing enough support to the CIA and the Pentagon’s own Special Forces teams in the final hours of Tora Bora, says Berntsen’s lawyer, Roy Krieger. (Berntsen would not divulge the book’s specifics, saying he’s awaiting CIA clearance.) That backs up other recent accounts, including that of military author Sean Naylor, who calls Tora Bora a “strategic disaster” because the Pentagon refused to deploy a cordon of conventional forces to cut off escaping Qaeda and Taliban members. Maj. Todd Vician, a Defense Department spokesman, says the problem at Tora Bora “was not necessarily just the number of troops.”
Berntsen’s book gives, by contrast, a heroic portrayal of CIA activities at Tora Bora and in the war on terror. Ironically, he has sued the agency over what he calls unacceptable delays in approving his bookâ€â€a standard process for ex-agency employees describing classified matters. “They’re just holding the book,” which is scheduled for October release, he says. “CIA officers, Special Forces and U.S. air power drove the Taliban out in 70 days. The CIA has taken roughly 80 days to clear my book.” Jennifer Millerwise, a CIA spokeswoman, says Berntsen’s “timeline is not accurate,” adding that he submitted his book as an ex-employee only in mid-June. “We take seriously our goal of responding quickly.”
August 7th, 2005 at 12:30 pmWell douchebags polls are sinking like a stone-better brace yourselves for another attack-I bet he’s on the sat phone with binladen plotting how best to ruin our lives so the reptilicans can steal more money under the guise of ‘governance’.Man, is it gonna be great when the truth gets out-watching the reptilicans try to spin their way out ought to be quite entertaining-
August 7th, 2005 at 12:33 pmproviding Americans are smart enough to figure it out.
Better not hold my breath….
- In September 2000, one year before 9/11, the Bush team’s neocon think tank PNAC (Project for a New American Century) published a plan for global domination called “Rebuilding America’s Defenses”. (Top Bush Administration figures like Cheney, Perle, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld et al. were signers of PNAC’s Statement of Principles.)
August 7th, 2005 at 12:36 pmTheir plan called for a huge boost in defense spending, full spectrum dominance over all nations and regions (including outer space), long term petro-resource control with permanent Middle East bases, and a preemptive war policy against recalcitrant states. However, they openly conceded that such a huge “transformation” would take forever “absent some cataclysmic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor.”.
Strathmore,
I know you got it all figured out. But cryptic itellectualism and book readin does not the public opinion make.
August 7th, 2005 at 12:41 pmIf you insist on tit for tat and good guys being last you should atleast become your enemy to give yourself a chance.
Your leaders are incompetent and drape themselves in pseudo-swagger.
Comment #158 is not mine.
August 7th, 2005 at 1:16 pmComment #155 is also not mine
August 7th, 2005 at 1:17 pmComments #152 and #153 are not mine.
August 7th, 2005 at 1:17 pmdicky,
in comment to your post #119… we shouldn’t have waited for Japan to invade us, we should have declared war on Germany and Japan before then. that has been one of the Jewish community’s criticism of America during WWII is that we did not act fast enough.
regardless, bringing self-determination (a goal of the U.N. Charter)to the people of the world is a noble cause and i am in 100% agreement with neo-cons on this.
August 7th, 2005 at 1:20 pmMethinks someone finds yer posts “homogenized”, Lyle.
August 7th, 2005 at 1:22 pmYou’re the only poster who has an imposter.
i love Fox News. i believe everything the MSM tells me. im a good soldier. i never served, but i love being a chickenhawk.
August 7th, 2005 at 1:27 pmbrian,
you mean you don’t think somebody is trying to scare me away so that everybody in this forum is conforming to one world view: bush bad, war bad, america bad, etc…?
August 7th, 2005 at 1:27 pm#179 is not my post
August 7th, 2005 at 1:33 pmMany diverse and contrasting, patriotic views in here, Kyle.
August 7th, 2005 at 1:33 pmImposter is good! I thought 178 was decoy!
August 7th, 2005 at 1:34 pmBrian,
Really? All I read is “if you support Bush you’re a zombie fascist fool”.
And why is it people here like to imply that I’m challenging their patriotism? All I’m doing is arguing my point and what happens is the other person calls me an idiot and then declares that they’re patriots. What nonsense.
Argue your point, or don’t comment. Get over the fact that somebody actually doesn’t agree with you.
Muslim subjigation of women must is unacceptable!!!
August 7th, 2005 at 1:38 pmI have been neutralized by the Lyles. Sorry,Lyle.
August 7th, 2005 at 1:42 pmSpeak to my attorney, bring some ID.
Brian,
Speak to your attorney? About what? Bring some ID?
Lots of Republicans don’t like Bush by the way.
August 7th, 2005 at 1:44 pmWhy anyone would believe, that a blue-blood from Kennebunkport, Maine, (who masquerades as a Texan and has close ties to individuals involved in some of the most scandalous crimes in our history, from Savings and Loan to Enron), would have the best interests of the American people at heart seems incredible to me.
That anyone could believe that the wholesale murder of hundreds of thousands of human beings can be justified by bring such a perverted brand of “democracy” to the world, is insane.
I am in complete disagreement with the Neocons, on almost every issue, and where I do agree with their viewpoint, I find their motivations suspect. They are concerned only with power. They worship death and torture.
We are in a state of perpetual war (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_war), where the ultimate goal is to wipe out all resistance to the State. This includes Republicans that might disagree too.
August 7th, 2005 at 1:48 pmLyle,
It is a noble cause, but it is also a fairy tale that will never occur. Overtime by example, perhaps – that is why the Chinese are emulating us with their own form of capitalism – but as for freedom we supposedly represent?
You cannot force democracy and our way of life on people who do not want it. This is why the current administration is failing so badly. Self determination is being lost here at home. King George appoints Bolton though better than 60% of the people disagreed. The Senate disagreed. To hell with checks and balances, the result is we lose self determination.
see shat I mean?
As for the academic point of who declared war on who, when Bin Laden executed the 911 attacks – EVERYONE liberals and conservatives spoke of a war being declared on us. Of course when Japan bombed pearl harbor we were going to hit back and hit hard.
Stratmore, it is simply a fact that Saddam and obl had no use for each other. I know of chomsky, but I other sources have been fodder for my opinion. It is just an opinion – I have no way of knowing why/if obl is in cahoots with gwb. All I know is that it has been over almost 5 years and the detour in Iraq has not helped one bit in getting the sob.
August 7th, 2005 at 1:54 pmSo far, none of these postings have suggested a design for the Neo American armband. What with all that creative energy coming at us like a cleansing stream, I expected somebody to proffer the symbol that would go on the armband that would go on the sleeve of the military shirt dramatically displaying camoflage motifs. Once we have that to wear, we can set about dreaming up a snappy arm movement. Then we will have the armband, the shirt, and the salute. We can figure out the music later. In the meantime, Halliburton hauls another load away to the islands and the cargo planes drop off a few more occupied coffins in Virginia.
August 7th, 2005 at 2:09 pmim a chickenhawk who has never killed a man in my life. i eat what the MSM feeds me gladly. nevermind that 3 corporations own all the media, that means nothing to me. im a cheerleader.
August 7th, 2005 at 2:10 pmPink elephants flew out of my ass. No one can prove that they didn’t. Then they flew back up my ass again.
Prove that they didn’t. I challenge you.
My name is Lyle. It rhymes with lie all the time.
August 7th, 2005 at 2:13 pmComments #173 #174 #175 are not mine.
August 7th, 2005 at 2:14 pmive never killed anyone, i dont fully understand death. SO KILL ALL THE ARABS W!!!!!! YOUR DOING A GREAT JOB!!!!!!
August 7th, 2005 at 2:18 pmPray for George W. Bush! You Commie Heathens!
http://www.prayforgeorgewbush.com/pages/236635/index.htm
Numbers 24
5 “How beautiful are your tents, O Jacob, your dwelling places, O Israel!
6 “Like valleys they spread out, like gardens beside a river, like aloes planted by the LORD, like cedars beside the waters.
7 Water will flow from their buckets; their seed will have abundant water. “Their king will be greater than Agag; their kingdom will be exalted.
8 “God brought them out of Egypt; they have the strength of a wild ox. They devour hostile nations and break their bones in pieces; with their arrows they pierce them.
9 Like a lion they crouch and lie down, like a lionessâ€â€who dares to rouse them? “May those who bless you be blessed and those who curse you be cursed!”
Dear Lord on High, We exalt You on this Lord’s Day and praise your very being. You are gracious and good and kind to us and Your mercies never fail. We thank You for being able to live in this wonderful country of ours. Yes, she is flawed, but she is free – and we thank You for our Freedom. We pray Lord for those who are risking their lives to preserve it, and for the families of those who have lost their lives. Be a comfort and a guide to all who diligently seek You and rule over this land with all of Your mighty power and glory. Revive Your church, Lord. Revive this nation and its leaders.
Father, I pray for President Bush as he is down in Crawford. Some have criticized him being there, but we know that even though he is vacationing, he is at work. Lord, give him wisdom as he works. And help him to use it. Protect him always, and may his deeds glorify You.
I pray for Laura and the Bush family. Protect them. Show them Your glory in ways that touch their hearts and souls, and Lord if any of them don’t know You, reveal yourself to that person or those people. For the kingdom is better when the “King” abides by Your standards.
Father, be with our astronauts returning from orbit. Keep them safe. And, Lord, thank You for creating man with the abilities to do such marvelous things. I’m awed that as much as many of my fellow human’s know, is just a shadow of Your knowledge. You are an awesome God!
Go with us, Lord. Forgive us where we fail You. And lift us up from whence we have fallen. For it is in Jesus’ precious name that I pray these things.
Amen.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1458698/posts
August 7th, 2005 at 2:28 pm#193
You fool! you support the Anti-Christ!!!
It is so clear! Read the bible – “by their works you shall know them”. What in God’s creation has Bush done that has advanced Jesus’s teachings?
turned the other cheek. NO
blessed are the meek. NO
sermon on the mont? NO
tax cuts for the rich? Yes
The list is endless, actions should be your clue, not
empty words. You have chosen to follow a false prophet, THINK… for yourself for once.
He throws you a bone with abortion and gays. Yet while
you curl up and lament the lost fetuses and the gay fornication he kills and maims people. wake up!!
http://www.iraqvictims.com/letters.asp
wake up wake up you sheep!!!
You are cheering on a war monger!! Profits before himan life – why is the sanctity of life trampled by him and you still follow him? In the name of Jesus indeed!
He has killed and maimed thousands and thousands of
August 7th, 2005 at 3:28 pmhuman beings in pursuit of what? the rationale keeps changing. Meantime a national ID is passed that ushers in step 1 in the mark of the beast!!!!
If Jesus Christ came back today and saw what was being done in his name, he’d never stop throwing up.
-Max von Sydow- (from Hannah and Her Sisters)
August 7th, 2005 at 3:42 pmKneel before ZOG! Pray for Bush!
http://newsobserver.com/news/story/2696650p-9133919c.html
http://www.patriotpublications.com/biography.htm
http://www.patriotpublications.com/title2.htm
http://www.patriotpublications.com/feedback.htm
http://rogerailes.blogspot.com/2005_07_31_rogerailes_archive.html#112334607129736592
August 7th, 2005 at 3:59 pmHow things can “progress” in 24 hours!!?!!
“The point Lyle is that your boy king LIED to the American people.” And all the brilliant minds of the previous administration didn’t posit the same notion?? Grow up!
“F**K Isreal I do not want to sacrifice a single American life for them. Not our problem.” The nauseating comps between the GOP & Nazis is more strongly accentuated by the lefts continuous resentment of Israel. “Not our problem” sounds a bit self-absorbed like the Germans and Poles who stood by and did NOTHING while their neighbors were rounded up, tortured and murdered. (Or my favourite 20th century patriots, the majority in France. Turn in your neighbors or collaborate – what’s the big deal??) I’m glad I don’t have people like you watching my back – I’d have to dig the knife out.
To filthy mouthed, sexist poster in #47- your mother must be soooo proud of you!!!!
A question for my liberal friends?? Can you stop screeching long enough to make some positive suggestions (i.e. how much would your ideal tax rate be? and what exactly would you like it to cover??)
August 7th, 2005 at 4:09 pmHere Alexa in simple to read English.
The tax rate for the rich and the poor shoukd be the same exact percentage. Is that easy enough for you.
You want an exact percentage, well, it should definitely less than the 33% we pay now.
August 7th, 2005 at 4:15 pmSorry Alexa,
Israel is not our problem The arabs and the jews have hated each other how long? Why is that our concern?
I have never understood that. The killing and oppression between the Israelis and Palistinians is mutual. F**k them both, yet we always take Israels side.
Of course we did the right thing in helping defeat Hitler. It has to do with compassion for human life, not compassion for jews specifically.
Notice that you attack dicky – but do not defend the Lie and go back to wing nut rule one – deflect to Clinton.
The majority of the rest of the world views Bush as this century’s Hitler. I have been all over this world as I my jobs takes me all over. Trust me – people see the US as a threat to peace. They view communist China as the super power they most admire, I think China sucks – but apparently Bush has made the US suck more. Bush is the most hated man in the world – and at least half of the people in the states do not worship him like you.
August 7th, 2005 at 4:22 pmSpudge Boy – short and to the point. But the greedy bastards cannot fathom – why someone making 28K a year and pays 3K in taxes is hard on them. They make hundreds of thousands and just do not understand if the pay 30K, it is far-far less painful for them. Hey, let them forgo the down payment on that new SUV or otgher expensive luxury item. Boo-hoo.
Alexa you are an idiot. I meant what I said f**k Israel,
August 7th, 2005 at 4:29 pmf**k the arabs too. These two have an overdeveloped sense of revenge – and again – you can disagree if you want but WHY IS THAT OUR CONCERN?
comments #190-193 are not mine.
August 7th, 2005 at 4:37 pmComment #202 is not mine.
August 7th, 2005 at 5:51 pmThe tax rate for the rich and the poor shoukd be the same exact percentage. Is that easy enough for you.
Sorry Spudge, I have to disagree with you there. Flat tax rates are too regressive. If they wanted a simple progressive tax system, they could have one. Gee! I wonder why they don’t?
August 7th, 2005 at 5:53 pmCheck this out Spudge,
http://taxwisdom.org/
Tax policy is not my area of expertise, but I know a snow job when I see one.
August 7th, 2005 at 5:56 pmDicky #201,
I understand your frustration but you have to realize that there are radical kooks in the Arab countries as well as Israel. We even have them here. Many more people here, in the Arab countries, and even in Israel, are probably more like the rest of us. They just want peace to live, work, marry and raise a family.
August 7th, 2005 at 6:00 pmpoint taken Narc,
August 7th, 2005 at 6:22 pmBut should not we be more even handed about it?
To all of my non-hypocritical liberal friends, while we are busy stoking the “Impeach the liar Bush because he LIED about WMD’s” let’s expand the list to include Bushco’s fellow LIARS:
“We have kown for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction.”
Sen. Edward Kennedy (D-MA) 9/27/02
“He has systematically violated, over the course of the past eleven years, every significant United Nation resolutionthat has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. this he has refused to do.”
Rep. Henry Waxman (D-CA) 10/10/02
“Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction techology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process.”
Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) 12/16/98
“We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them.”
Sen. Carl Levin (D-MI) 9/12/02
“One way or another we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line.”
August 7th, 2005 at 6:24 pmPresident Clinton – 2/4/98 (This one has already been impeached – no need to include on your new & improved list.)
You’re kidding, right?
August 7th, 2005 at 6:30 pmThere is not a smarter politician than Levin. With the exception of Clinton, all the other lies were either to defend their cowardly refusal to pander for their jobs? Or lies told to them by your feeble-minded moronic leader and his band of war criminals.
You came to the wrong place to point out Dem. flaws. Trust me, we know them.
Alexa,
What is your point? It was not Clinton, nor Pelosi, nor any Dem it was Bush that sent our troops into Iraq based on a lie. The fact that some Dems were duped or equally complicit means squat. Many Americans believed the big WMD whopper. Many Americans believed the absolute lie that Saddam was directly involved in 911. But there were MANY blogs at the time that disputed and reported the inconsistencies in the GOP drum beat to war. Not all are blind.
Explain oh wise one – what the hell justifies the killing and maiming of thousands of human beings? What justifies the hundreds of soldiers that have died in this immoral war? Not WMD, Not 911, to spread democarcy – give me a break; allready their constitition is establishing a theocracy. A theocracy that does not champion western values at all.
So one more time – in the end what have we or what will we gain?
Clinton TOLD Bush that the biggest problem facing America was terrorist. Bush blew it off, this is a fact. The missle defence boondoggle was of far more
August 7th, 2005 at 6:36 pmimportance to Bush.
Pardon me. The Dems, as we all know, supported the war to save their jobs. They were on the “Kill Muslim” bandwagon with everyone else.
August 7th, 2005 at 6:37 pmIf course I ask rhetorically. There are reasons the Bush adminstration invaded Iraq. Christian Fundamentalist goals, corperate money making goals (Haliburton and others), neo-con spreading democracy pip dream, Israel lobby and of course PNAC.
August 7th, 2005 at 6:40 pmNone of these reasons justify this immoral war.
Brian, I can’t tell you what to feel or how to react – only a huge “I am a victim” complex could explain that. My support for Israel is from based on a moral sense of restitution – unfortunately, there is no restoring the dead – so we must do what we can for those who have had such violence scorn heaped upon them. (Were you rooting for the semi-kindly Cossack in ‘Fiddler on the Roof”?) You are right about his mom, since 47 was perhaps the product of a “colorful” mom. he probably learned his valgarity at her knee.
SpudgeBoy, I hate to ruin your reputation, but I agree with you that everyone should pay the same income tax rate. But since my liberal friends never saw a tax they didn’t love, I would suggest a rate of 25% across the board, as I doubt they’ll ever get rid of proerty taxes, gas taxes, tire taxes, sin taxes, sales taxes, etc.
SmartLefty, you’re right – most of the world hates us -but for them to admire communist China (as you claim so many do) is to truly misunderstand history. Mao was not a broad thinker. Joe Stalin wasn’t either. You seem to care so much about other’s opinions – they are entitled to them but I don’t care. I do not want to be French, Danish German, etc. I wish to treat neighbors with respect – not affection.
August 7th, 2005 at 6:48 pmNothing justifies killing and maiming innocent people -except to prevent further death and destruction. Participation at the open Al Jazzeera blog will reiterate to the suicide bombers how concerned you are with all the innocents they are killing. If you are a product of public school history classes please go back and let your teachers know that unfortunately innocents have always died in wars (with casualties inflicted by both sides). You seem disappointed that they chose a government not to your our liking – I agree – but that was their choice. Bush had tons of Dem sipport for both wars – but they were a little rusty singing “God Bless America” – out of practice I guess.
August 7th, 2005 at 7:01 pmThat is the problem Alexa. We all share this planet, and our actions as well as theirs effect us all. We would be much more effective defeating the terrorist with other countries – rather than taking the arrogant view that we do not care what they think. We need to sell our goods and services world wide – and it matters very much what other countries think. The French, German and many other countries did not want to join us in the fiasco in Iraq – and in hindsight I would arguee they were right.
August 7th, 2005 at 7:06 pmJews lived in Palestine just fine prior to Israel. But they did not dominate. Not for a millennium. The Zionists developed the land and wanted to put fences around the stakes. And they murdered for it.
Sharon knows Israel won’t survive under present circumstances. NetanYAHOO doesn’t know his ass from a Christmas tree. And their patriarch is the murderer Begin.
Israel is a clown operation.
Yes, I’m a victim. First time your fault, second mine.
August 7th, 2005 at 7:08 pmThis may surprise you Alexa, but had Saddam really had a hand in 911 – I would not have lost sleep had we completely and thoroughly destroyed Iraq. Of course people die in a war, but we were the agressor and that to me is the problem – Iraqi people do not deserve Saddam – nor do they deserve us destroying their lives. PNAC doctrine is EVIL.
As for the government they chose, it was predictable. That was my point. I was 100% behind Bush when I heard that we had started routing the Taliban in Afganistan. I really wish he would have succeeded in taking care of obl. I would have been tickled if Iraq had stabilized quickly, and they formed a truly democratic government. I would have even given Bush his due.
August 7th, 2005 at 7:14 pmSometimes you hope you are wrong – but not surprised when proven right.
“My support for Israel is from based on a moral sense of restitution – unfortunately, there is no restoring the dead – so we must do what we can for those who have had such violence scorn heaped upon them.”
August 7th, 2005 at 7:16 pm“I wish to treat neighbors with respect – not affection.”
you like violence. makes you feel like something is getting done, doesn’t it? Somebody has to pay right? They did it first! What do we do just sit there and take it? The Bible says….
If only Alexa actually had facts, not propaganda. Communism should not be confused with privately owned states like we are aiming to become.
Private ownership is the cure for all problems, despite the historical record of privately owned states such as Nazi Germany, Czarist and Stalinist Russia, and Maoist China.
That’s right, Alexa. How can a you confuse privately owned states with communism? Please enlighten us.
August 7th, 2005 at 7:17 pmAmerica was right in overthrowing Saddam Hussein’s authoritarian human rights abusing regime. We had other countries supporting us. We didn’t need France or Germany or Canada to support us. They could have helped the Iraqi people if they wanted to for their own reasons, but they did not. They prefered to allow Saddam Hussein to continue abusing the people of Iraq. Iraqis will long will remember this.
The war simply has not been a mistake, it’s been a boon to humanity and human rights.
August 7th, 2005 at 7:32 pmAnd you remain a baboon to humanity, Lyle. You and Bush both.
August 7th, 2005 at 7:35 pmNo, wait… he’s a chimp. You da baboon.
August 7th, 2005 at 7:35 pmI am glad you applaud Red China’s dipping their toe into the capitalist market pool, they just need to dive in! Hopefully, their citizens will benefit. I do not applaud their election system – admit it – it’s worse than ours(!), or their unwritten policy of female infanticide.
And while I am happy to “share the planet” I could care less about the collaborative French or the Green Germans – I would think they would have a little more care in delineating the terms of “neighborliness” when they have such dangerous neighbors far closer than we do.
Thank you for your food for thought – must I now become a vegetarian? Good Sunday to all – “God Bless America – and Her Allies!”
August 7th, 2005 at 7:36 pmNo More Neo Con Carne for Alexa?
No liberal here…
Lieutenant General William E. Odom, U.S. Army (Ret.), is a Senior Fellow at Hudson Institute’s Washington, D.C. office. He is also a visiting professor at Georgetown University and a Fellow at Berkeley College, Yale University. As Director of the National Security Agency from 1985 to 1988, he was responsible for the nation’s signals intelligence and communications security. From 1981 to 1985, he served as Assistant Chief of Staff for Intelligence, the Army’s senior intelligence officer. [1] (http://www.hudson.org/learn/index.cfm?fuseaction=staff_bio&eid=OdomWill)
From 1977 to 1981, General Odom was Military Assistant to the President’s Assistant for National Security Affairs, Zbigniew Brzezinski. As a member of the National Security Council staff, he worked upon strategic planning, Soviet affairs, nuclear weapons policy, telecommunications policy, and Persian Gulf security issues. [2] (http://www.hudson.org/learn/index.cfm?fuseaction=staff_bio&eid=OdomWill)
Odom graduated in 1954 from West Point with a Bachelor of Science and from Columbia University with both a Masters Degree and a Doctor of Philosophy in 1970. [3] (http://www.forbes.com/finance/mktguideapps/personinfo/FromPersonIdPersonTearsheet.jhtml?passedPersonId=224573) [4] (http://www.hudson.org/learn/index.cfm?fuseaction=staff_bio&eid=OdomWill)
Odom is currently Chairman of the Board of Directors at the V-ONE Corporation of Rockville, MD, and has served on the board since 1996. He is also Chairman of the Board at American Science & Engineering of Billerica, MA, where he has served as both an officer and director since September 1996. [5] (http://www.v-one.com/board.html#odom) [6] (http://www.forbes.com/finance/mktguideapps/personinfo/FromPersonIdPersonTearsheet.jhtml?passedPersonId=224573)
He is a member of the Board of Directors of the Institute for the Study of Diplomacy and an adjunct faculty member in the Security Studies Program of the Edmund A. Walsh School of Foreign Service at Georgetown University. [7] (http://ssp.georgetown.edu/adjunctoz.html)
According to Media Transparency (http://www.mediatransparency.org/search_results/odom_results.htm), in 1990, 1991, 1992, and 1998, Odom’s research on military and security studies was funded by both the Smith Richardson Foundation and the John M. Olin Foundation.
On Friday, April 9, 2004, Odom described the attack on Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein as “one of the great strategic errors of the post-Cold War era.” [8] (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04100/298445.stm)
On April 28, 2004, the Wall Street Journal reported: “General William E. Odom warms that a military occupation will never produce a ‘friendly democracy’ in Iraq and argues that the Bush administration should removed US forces from the region as soon as possible. Gen. Odom puts it bluntly: ‘We have failed.’” [9] (http://www.envirosagainstwar.org/edit/index.php?op=view&itemid=1391)
On NBC’s “Today” show Thursday, April 29, 2004, Odom said “We have already failed … Staying in longer makes us fail worse … I think we’ve passed the chances not to fail. And now we are in the situation where we have to limit the damage.” [10] (http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/8552589.htm?template=contentModules/printstory.jsp)
http://www.niemanwatchdog.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=ask_this.view&askthisid=00129
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?
Lotta folks think the boon is more of a boondoggle…
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Operation_Iraqi_Freedom:_Military_and_Political_Dissenttitle=William_E._Odom
August 7th, 2005 at 7:44 pmhttp://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Operation_Iraqi_Freedom:_Military_and_Political_Dissent
August 7th, 2005 at 7:45 pmMichael Moore,
Calling people monkeys really isn’t a winning argument. Try and do better.
China is an interesting place. It seems to be heading in the right direction, but still remains authoritarian and people’s rights are restrained in too many ways. people still go to prison because of their political actions or opinions, people lose their jobs because of doing the “wrong” thing, books are censored, the internet is cenosred, and the media is state owned and spews out misinformation (most chinese understand that if China invades Taiwan, it is because of America.
that being said, a lot of young Communist Party members, i think, want to change China and perhaps privately think there should be more than one political party. young lawyers that i have spoken with there seem to be hopeful about a more politically free future.
August 7th, 2005 at 7:49 pmA primate is a primate. But you are right, it’s an insult to the baboons to compare you to one of them.
August 7th, 2005 at 7:59 pmMichael Moore,
Are you going to actually say something or are you going to be a child and continue calling people names. You don’t have to respect me or what i have to say, but you’re going to have to respect my right to say it.
i’m not going anywhere Michael and i will continue to say what i want to because it is my fundamental right as a human being. calling me a baboon will not make go away nor will it ever defeat my ideas. my ideas will live and you will have to put up with it.
August 7th, 2005 at 8:05 pmLyle
“America was right in overthrowing Saddam Hussein’s authoritarian human rights abusing regime.”
really why just because your dear leader says so?
Give reasons not talking points.
We had allies when Bush Sr. removed Saddam from Kuwait. What allies are you refering to? Britain? Oh of course let’s not forget Poland.
Facts are a bitch Lyle. Quit being delusional.
August 7th, 2005 at 8:06 pmWe are taking more than 90% of the brunt on both lives and treasure. Had we had real Allies like the first Bush did, we would not be footing the bill.
Not only are we paying the bill, but the rich get to pay less taxes while we mortgage our kids future.
FOR WHAT?
Micheal Moore,
August 7th, 2005 at 8:12 pmwhen is your next documentary being released? Health care in this country is horrific. My brother died waiting to get help at the hospital. He had no health insurance, and quickly determined that his pain was due to appendicitis – so he could wait. Problem was it was later determined to be a ruptured upper intestine. Bush and his corperate buddies are raping and pillaging our country. I hope your project will make a difference.
dicky,
i’ve provided you with facts and not talking parts. and please don’t ever call bush my “dear leader”. i wanted Saddam Hussein gone back in ‘91 and then ever since. that means i wanted “dear leaders” papa bush and bill clinton to eliminate saddam hussein. why? and you better read this carefully dicky, because we were obligated to the iraqi people to do it.
we supported him in the 80’s against iran, and then we did not finish him in ‘91 and he brutally oppressed the kurds and shia. we transgressed the iraqi people under not only republican presidents, but democratic ones too (carter and clinton). bush, allah ahkbar, decide to finally fulfill our obligation to iraq. i am proud of his decision, i’m proud of our soldiers, and i am not ashamed of what we have done.
… and, saddam hussein want ever be able to have wmds now, even if he didn’t have in when we invaded (which is what the whole world thought, which is why u.n. inspectors were there to begin with.. we didn’t make up the wmd thing cause he had them at one time and like the 9/11 report says he wanted wmd).
August 7th, 2005 at 8:19 pmMorons and countrymen, what is this crap about every American paying at the same tax rate? What is the economic reasoning here? We are not playing some football game here run by referees and linesmen. How does economic history support this “fairness,” this “equity”? Taxes do not serve as boundary markers. They generate economic possiblities; they allow social tides to go high or low; they provide for education and health; they provide for those who cannot do it for themselves. So what has every one paying the same rate got to do with any thing? Is this some more manure from the Conservative cow barn? Who are you people?
August 7th, 2005 at 8:26 pmLyle you don’t really believe what you are saying do you? The Bush Regime fixed the intelligence to make not only Americans believe that he had WMD’s but also the world. Wanting WMD and actually having WMD’s are two different things. Do you really think that the Bush Regime really cares about the Kurds or the Shia or even the Iraq people for that matter. The Bush Regime only cares about the PNAC and their Corporate Cronies.
August 7th, 2005 at 8:38 pmLyle,
Nice thoughful response. I had often hoped that we had “finnished the job”. But no sell.
Let’s assume you are right. We are obligated to the Iraqi people because we propped up Saddam. I must have missed that speech on the march to war.
Was that what the American people were told? End justifies the end right? If you have kids, would you tell them to cheat on tests? You are totally ok with bald face lies and propaganda so we could live up to our obligation? And you see no problem with the sloppy execution of this as well? You find it ok that we torture people? And of course until recently anyway, you sort of ignored that one of our “allies” Ubzkistan was equally brutal if not more?
You see no hypocracy there? The missing 9 billion dollar is no problem to you? The fact that the rich do not pay for this fiasco in any way is ok too right?
No country in history has ever cut taxed in time of war – why is that?
You have drank the cool-aid Lyle and cannot think. You acknowledge that we supported him agains Iran, but fail to point out that when he gassed the Kurds he did it with US supplied chemicals. You fail to mention that we let it happen. And now all of a sudden, we
August 7th, 2005 at 8:39 pmowe the Iraqi people.
Paul Martin here.
I am the prime minister of Canada.
Let it be known. I do NOT want nor SEEK weapons
of mass destruction.
I do not want my country attacked because we
August 7th, 2005 at 8:46 pm“might” one day get WMD.
-=
Dicky,
No, Bush didn’t say we were going to war because of our past mistakes. He could not have because international law does not allow countries to invade other countries based on what a country is doing to its people. The Security Council would have to support that, and no way were China and Russia going to support a liberation of Iraq.
That’s why the wmd argument was made, because Russia and China had supported inspections. Going to the U.N. on wmd was a way to get the world behind the invasion. The world didn’t want to invade so Bush, as is his right in an anarchic world, decided go go ahead on his own without Security Council approval.
people suffer often when there is no action, e.g., the balkans and rwanda. the middle east needed to change and the best way to do that is knock over the worst middle east despots. now people in lebanon and egypt are moving to peacefully overthrow their own. more events will occur and eventually all the middle eastern despots will be no more, in either our lifetime or beyond our own.
August 7th, 2005 at 9:16 pmamazing,
an implicit admission that the Bush adminstration
LIED.
so say it Lyle.
THE END JUSTIFIES THE MEANS.
we will just have to disagree, I find it morally
August 7th, 2005 at 9:27 pmrepugnant to have that view. That explains why
torture, 9 billion lost, 200 Billion and counting,
the rich getting a free ride, thousands of innocents
killed does not bother you at all. If you are
young enough
I hope you have the courage of your convictions Lyle and
August 7th, 2005 at 9:29 pmvolunteer for Iraq. Or have kids – encourage them.
I may still disagree but would have to respect it.
no, i don’t have to volunteer to have my convictions.
do you want the people in the Sudan to live? you know how they would live? if we sent soldiers with guns there to save them. people would be killed doing so.
didn’t you want Adolf Hitler to be stopped? people had to be killed to do so.
people in Rwanda and the Balkans were slaughtered because we didn’t send soldiers to stop it. and guess what? they would have killed people.
August 7th, 2005 at 9:42 pmHubris! Oh! Hubris! You maker of Rome! You destroyer of Rome! You instiller of fear! You breeder of insanity! Why must you taunt us with your un-girdled bosom?
August 7th, 2005 at 9:45 pmthen you are a hypocrite. Others can die for you and the the lies they believed when they were sent there.
August 7th, 2005 at 9:52 pmIf the cause does not reach the level where you would place your ass on the line – why is it ok for people like Cindy Sheehan to lose her baby?
Mark,
make an argument instead of calling me names. i’m no “maker of rome” or “destroyer of Rome”.
dicky,
haha… i’m clearly not a hypocrite. our military is civilian controlled and as an american citizen i believer whatever i want to believe. i have the right to think american soldiers should “go over there” to kill people to make the world a better place.
didn’t you want the genocide in rwanda to stop? how could you have done that without sending american soldiers to kill people?
August 7th, 2005 at 10:03 pm[...] (via ThinkProgress.org) [...]
August 7th, 2005 at 10:10 pmdude that is the definition of a hypocrite.
thanks for exposing yourself.
from websters:
Pronunciation: ‘hi-p&-”krit
August 7th, 2005 at 10:10 pmFunction: noun
Etymology: Middle English ypocrite, from Old French, from Late Latin hypocrita, from Greek hypokritEs actor, hypocrite, from hypokrinesthai
: a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion
- hypocrite adjective
LYLE!
How old are you, Lyle? If your military age then I suggest you serve your country! Come to Iraq you snivelling pinhead! You have tried my patience, sir! I am the one on the ground you minion! Why must you assume that your opinion based on mere speculation or wishful thinking has a damn thing to do with reality on the ground! 2% non-Iraqi insurgency amounts to nothing of the numbers we ourselves are mowing down! They have no choice against our might of occupiers but have to resort to a campaign that you obviously believe to be non-Iraqi! I suggest you stick to topics you can possibly understand and until you enlist if able and come over here and see the facts and have to kill Iraqi citizens because there is no choice here, then your babble might have meaning! It is there, where you sit comfy in the knowledge that what you condone is just and moral, that is the only place that this war can and will be stopped! You need to wake up, sir!
August 7th, 2005 at 10:29 pmany trolls care to help Bush explain what noble cause Cindy Sheehans son died for?
August 7th, 2005 at 10:35 pmPeople are waking up – lets hope he does not start another war – to get hus numbers back up.
There are many here on the ground that will be up in arms if he does!
August 7th, 2005 at 10:36 pmcindy sheehans’ son died for the betterment of the world. he died helping the iraqi people and he died serving his country which has an interest in helping the iraqi people. this isn’t too difficult to understand.
peoples’ children died in Europe and Asia as well. they didn’t die for nothing, other than in Vietnam. our soldiers are dying to make the Middle East a better place and to make the world safe for self-determination.
August 7th, 2005 at 10:50 pmyes and we can just all ignore all facts to the contrary.
lyle you are deluded. truly. George W. will not even meet with Cindy – why not lyle? Since George can give a sh*t about her son – what makes you think he gives a damn about the Iraqis. If you really believe your drivel you are beyond contempt.
any other trolls have anything better?
August 7th, 2005 at 11:08 pm#93, Great quote from Julius Caesar – I’ve read it before, but it is always good to read it again and refresh the memory — isn’t it amazing that history is repetitive. Worse — that we still don’t learn from it no matter how many times it goes around.
August 7th, 2005 at 11:08 pmLyle,
August 7th, 2005 at 11:09 pmYou are so hungry to have your point of view validated yet you tend to meander away from the truth here on the ground. Enlist!
Mr. B and the rest,
This is NOT a quote by Ceasar. Sorry. It has been paraded around as his but, alas, it is not.
“Beware of the leader, who strikes the war drum in order to transfer the citizens into patriotic glow; patriotism is indeed a double-sided sword. It makes the blood so boldly, like it constricts the intellect. And if the striking of the war drum reached a fiebrige height and the blood is cooking and hating, and the intellect is dismissed, the leader doesn’t need to reject the citizen’s rights. The citizens, caught by anxiety and blinded through patriotism, will subordinate all their rights to the leader and this even with happy courage. Why do I know that? I know it, because this is, what I did. And I am Gajus Julius Cäsar.”
I can’t recall, but I do not believe there is a source for it at all… A playwright perhaps? Not sure.
August 7th, 2005 at 11:14 pmhow is bush like Julisu Caesar or the embodiment of the Roman Senate?
how is overthrowing Saddam Hussein anything like Caesar establishing a dictatorship?
August 7th, 2005 at 11:14 pmWhen Ralph Nader was asked about the name-calling directed at him, he said, “They do that because they have run out of arguments.” So far, out of 249 comments, no less than 200 of them show the writers have run out of arguments or did not have one to start with. By “argument,” I mean presenting a claim/conclusion and suppying reasons/premises to support them, the said supports resting on verifiable, acceptable evidence. That’s an argument. Now a clash of unexamined attitudes boils down to Ring Lardner’s ” ‘Shut up,’ he explained.”
August 7th, 2005 at 11:15 pmMark,
August 7th, 2005 at 11:15 pmhe is a hypocrite and a coward. kinda like this idiot:
http://www.crooksandliars.com/
scroll down to Jason Mattera who explained to Chris Mathews whyt he supports the war – and has not enlisted because he is here to fight the battle of ideas.
It is a hilarious to see him say how he does not like
the term chickenhawk. I guess not.
Lyle, if you are unable to stop putting arguments in other people’s mouths then we hope yu enlist…
August 7th, 2005 at 11:18 pmAlexa, #208
August 7th, 2005 at 11:18 pmDon’t try to shift the blame to the Dems. who were lied to by Bush&Co about Iraq. None of them went to war — Bush did. All by himself. Whether the Dems were covering their own behinds, or fooled by his talk, it makes no difference in the end — he had the information, he ignored it, he lied to Congress, to us and to the world. He started this war in Iraq.
We here on the ground doth think Lyle has tuned in.
August 7th, 2005 at 11:58 pmBring em on! Yehaaa!
August 8th, 2005 at 12:16 amI’ve been reading this argument, and I think it is sad that Lyle seriously thinks Bush lying to the country about WMD’s, and Saddam’s ties to Al Queda and 9/11, was actually a good thing. Lyle just admitted that Bush is a tyrant. One definition of a tyrant is “a ruler who had seized power without legal right to it”. And he also admitted treason, “A betrayal of trust or confidence”. By knowingly lying to your country you lose all credibility, trust and confidence. And best yet, Lyle just admitted that Bush should be impeached, because it is against the law, and a high crime, to lie to congress. Lying to congress is an impeachable offense, no matter what the means were. And to Mark, I just won’t you to know that you have all of my support, and respect, because I do know of a lot of the hardships that all of yall face on a day to day life. I a friend over there right now, and more friends that have been over there and are home now. I have a friend in Fallujia, and I know that the war has changed him, through the letters he writes home, and I just don’t know if he’ll ever be the same. But, while i do not support the means of the war, I just won’t you guys to know that you’re in my prayers, and I hope you return home safely
August 8th, 2005 at 12:23 amYou are much like a sniper. Therefore we will let our commrade Tim have the honors of dismembering your silly rhetoric… Hey, Lyle… In the time it takes me to load my weapon and shoot a target, you have already wet your pants and ran to the comfort of your cozy chair! You are a disgrace to all of us serving and you do not deserve our time nor our protection since you believe the imaginary tales you are being told by the mainstream press and GWB. Fear is the mindkiller you useless bag of rhetorical jibes and misplaced loyalty! If you only knew the truth and how we are all laughing that you are ignorant to such a degree that you think we are fighting foreign terrorists or terrorists at all. You lack the courage, the fortitude, the will, and the mind to fight a war you know so little about.
August 8th, 2005 at 12:25 amLyle, When faced with discussing the war with actual on the ground troops we here believe your skin is beginning to rot. Rotting with the lies you spew forth lacking the knowledge to deem them truths. Your kind is a minority, sir. And that is a fact you had best get used to, because when all is said and done and when your empty words no longer trickle from your vacant face and your eyes are still with death looking back at you, then and only then will you realize that what you and your ilk are truly doing is aiding an enemy that exists only in your small mind. Please for the sake of all of us here in Iraq and back home and in the world… shut up!
August 8th, 2005 at 12:42 amTim-
Lyle,
August 8th, 2005 at 1:20 amBoom!
Josh,
August 8th, 2005 at 1:21 amThanks for the kind words.
Hey Lyle,
A lesson in chicken-hawks – look who served and who did not. Seems the entire Bush administration and much of the GOP never served in the military – but they do talk a toughy game don’t they? I especially like the list of pundits and hypocritial preachers at the end.
Democrats
* Richard Gephardt: Air National Guard, 1965-71.
* David Bonior: Staff Sgt., Air Force 1968-72.
* Tom Daschle: 1st Lt., Air Force SAC 1969-72.
* Al Gore: enlisted Aug. 1969; sent to Vietnam Jan.
1971 as an army journalist in 20th Engineer Brigade.
* Bob Kerrey: Lt. j.g. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor,
Vietnam.
* Daniel Inouye: Army 1943-47; Medal of Honor, WWII.
* John Kerry: Lt., Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze
Star with Combat V, Purple Hearts.
* Charles Rangel: Staff Sgt., Army 1948-52; Bronze
Star, Korea.
* Max Cleland: Captain, Army 1965-68; Silver Star &
Bronze Star, Vietnam.
* Ted Kennedy: Army, 1951-53.
* Tom Harkin: Lt., Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve,
1968-74.
* Jack Reed: Army Ranger, 1971-1979; Captain, Army
Reserve 1979-91.
* Fritz Hollings: Army officer in WWII; Bronze Star
and seven campaign ribbons.
* Leonard Boswell: Lt. Col., Army 1956-76; Vietnam,
DFCs, Bronze Stars, and Soldier’s Medal.
* Pete Peterson: Air Force Captain, POW. Purple
Heart, Silver Star and Legion of Merit.
* Mike Thompson: Staff sergeant, 173rd Airborne,
Purple Heart.
* Bill McBride: Candidate for Fla. Governor. Marine in
Vietnam; Bronze Star with Combat V.
* Gray Davis: Army Captain in Vietnam, Bronze Star.
* Pete Stark: Air Force 1955-57
* Chuck Robb: Vietnam
* Howell Heflin: Silver Star
* George McGovern: Silver Star & DFC during WWII.
* Bill Clinton: Did not serve. Student deferments.
Entered draft but received #311.
* Jimmy Carter: Seven years in the Navy. Graduate of Naval Academy, Annapolis, MD.
* Walter Mondale: Army 1951-1953
* John Glenn: WWII and Korea; six DFCs and Air Medal
with 18 Clusters.
* Tom Lantos: Served in Hungarian underground in WWII.
* Paul Hackett: Major, USMC, Operation Iraqi Freedom.
Republicans
* Dennis Hastert: did not serve.
* Tom Delay: did not serve.
* Roy Blunt: did not serve.
* Bill Frist: did not serve.
* Mitch McConnell: did not serve.
* Rick Santorum: did not serve.
* Trent Lott: did not serve.
* Dick Cheney: did not serve. Several deferments, the
last by marriage.
* John Ashcroft: did not serve. Seven deferments to
teach business.
* Jeb Bush: did not serve.
* Karl Rove: did not serve.
* Saxby Chambliss: did not serve. “Bad knee.” The man
who attacked Cleland’s patriotism.
* Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve.
* Vin Weber: did not serve.
* Richard Perle: did not serve.
* Douglas Feith: did not serve.
* Eliot Abrams: did not serve.
* Richard Shelby: did not serve.
* Jon Kyl: did not serve.
* Tim Hutchison: did not serve.
* Christopher Cox: did not serve.
* Newt Gingrich: did not serve.
* Don Rumsfeld: served in Navy (1954-57) as flight
instructor.
* George W. Bush: failed to complete his six-year
Air National Guard tour of duty; got assigned to Alabama so he could
campaign for family friend running for U.S. Senate; failed to show up for required medical exam, disappeared from duty.
* Ronald Reagan: due to poor eyesight, served in a
non-combat role making movies.
* B-1 Bob Dornan: Consciously enlisted after fighting
was over in Korea.
* Phil Gramm: did not serve.
* John McCain: Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of
Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross.
* Dana Rohrabacher: did not serve.
* John M. McHugh: did not serve.
* JC Watts: did not serve.
* Jack Kemp: did not serve. “Knee problem,” although
continued in NFL for 8 years.
* Dan Quayle: Journalism unit of the Indiana National
Guard.
* Rudy Giuliani: did not serve.
* George Pataki: did not serve.
* Spencer Abraham: did not serve.
* John Engler: did not serve.
* Lindsey Graham: National Guard lawyer.
* Arnold Schwarzenegger: AWOL from Austrian army
base.
* John Bolton: “I didn’t want to die in some South Asian rice paddy. . .”
Pundits & Preachers
* Sean Hannity: did not serve.
* Rush Limbaugh: did not serve (4-F with a
‘pilonidal cyst.’)
* Bill O’Reilly: did not serve.
* Michael Savage: did not serve.
* George Will: did not serve.
* Chris Matthews: did not serve.
* Paul Gigot: did not serve.
* Bill Bennett: did not serve.
* Pat Buchanan: did not serve.
* John Wayne: did not serve.
* Bill Kristol: did not serve.
* Kenneth Starr: did not serve.
* Antonin Scalia: did not serve.
* Clarence Thomas: did not serve.
* Ralph Reed: did not serve.
* Michael Medved: did not serve.
* Charlie Daniels: did not serve.
* Ted Nugent: did not serve. (He only shoots at
things that don’t shoot back.)
Posted by: Sergeant D at August 7,
August 8th, 2005 at 2:23 amNice find dicky! What say you, chickenhawk Lyle?
August 8th, 2005 at 3:05 amim a chickenhawk pussy too, i dont know why you think that list would change anything.
August 8th, 2005 at 8:05 amNo. You’re a young punk who will someday wake up with your nose stapled to your ass… Ignorance is your problem and the only way any person can take you serious is to overlook you. You are dismissed private chickenhawk!
August 8th, 2005 at 8:09 ami’ll be back soon to spew some more talking points that i so readily accept as fact.
August 8th, 2005 at 8:32 amThe Nazis have landed.
http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2005/08/minutemen-home-for-extremists_08.html
Pick a side.
August 8th, 2005 at 9:46 amLyle,
It’s called propaganda.
,S.
August 8th, 2005 at 9:48 amconservatives are an inferior subspecies of primate that cannot be trusted in any shape,form,or fashion.
August 8th, 2005 at 10:25 amFortunately,they are as predictable as the tide and
as long as one isn’t baited into their sophomoric debate tactics,can easily be exposed for the ideological charlatans that they are.They are an easy enemy to read as their tactics have remained unchanged for eons.They refuse to change their minds when confronted with contradictory facts because to do so would show weakness to their fellow conmen,and their primary purpose in life is the pursuit of ill-gotten gains.We should consider ourselves lucky that they have found their new savior in the form of bush jr-
talk about an intellectual lightweight-jr can barely speak with proper diction much less think critically.
Without terrorism they have nothing to justify their
viewpoint and the internet and it’s profound impact upon worldwide communication will do them in.It’s going to be a beautiful spectacle watching them try to
explain their actions once the truth is out-as long as they don’t drag us down with them-which is precisely what they will try to do.The neocons are the single greatest threat to peace we have ever known and will be even more dangerous once their lies are exposed-but this is the last time the bastards will be able to rear their ugly heads-we will bear witness to the pinnacle event in human history and it will be the end of their philosophy and they know it.There will be peace on this earth in our lifetimes-count on it.
“In my estimation, [in the event of] a biological, a chemical or nuclear attack in any of the 50 states, the Department of Defense is best positioned — of the various eight federal agencies that would be involved — to take the lead,” said Admiral Timothy J. Keating, the head of Northcom, which coordinates military involvement in homeland security operations.
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2005/08/08/military_drafts_war_plans_for_terrorist_attacks/
Someone in civilian office had best start yankining on the military’s chain. Hard!
August 8th, 2005 at 11:52 amNarc,
I do not doubt that their are Nazi’s on the border. However, there are also Mexican racists there as well. The Nazi groups are most likely there to discredit (Agent Provocateurs) the non-violent and decent people of the real Minutemen. All the legitimate Minutemen do is watch the border and report illegals crossing into our country.
:La Raza – The Race (how much more racist can you be)
The ‘Reconquista – Want the southwest US back. (uh.. no. its ours. Go away!)
Several other groups hate the Gringos, so don’t think for a minute that White Americans have a monopoly on hatred.
I was looking for a picture of one of these protests where someone was carrying a poster with a decapitated Caucasian’s head. (Very nice.)
The open border policy of the Bush Administration is a breech of our national sovereignty and our national security. Why do we have to give up our rights while the border is wide open? Ill tell you what I think. It is meant to further divide America, to balkanize and weaken us.
I don’t care what color your skin happens to be, you are a criminal if enter my house without my permission.
August 8th, 2005 at 11:55 amRead Neiwert’s piece, Mr. B.
August 8th, 2005 at 1:06 pmI am not disagreeing with you, either, Mr. B., and I know of one hispanic group that is openly anti-semitic, it’s on the web. Extremism is extremism, but read Orcinus, the link. The Minutemen are not a substitute for sound immigration policies.
August 8th, 2005 at 1:09 pmQuote from Neiwert’s Peice –
“…movements like these, borne of racial scapegoating in the first place, are always going to attract those kinds of supporters. It’s in their nature.”
***
I disagree. Yes, there are racists down there. There are also Patriots that want to stop the flood of illegals into this country. At least they are trying to do something about it. It’s not racist to want to protect your borders. It’s common sense. Why are we searching Americans getting on airplanes and trains and letting 3 million illegals enter this country last year?
August 8th, 2005 at 1:27 pmI am always amazed at the debate on our border. The debate always seems to miss the major point. Mexicans SHOULD not have to sneak across the border in order to make a living. They should be able to do that in Mexico. And not through agreements like NAFTA-which amount to little more than corporate giveaways.
If we seem to have to be rebuilding a country all the time. (Something I totally disagree wtih)I personally would rather see America invest in schools, etc. in Mexico than Iraq
August 8th, 2005 at 2:16 pmMarie – #258 – Well if that idiot Bush (who can’t even construct a sentence correctly) was able to lie – and pull the wool over the most brilliant Democrat brains in America, we’re in BIIIIGGG trouble!! Not included in the list (but available if you are interested) are comments from Sen. Hillary Clinton, Al Gore, Joe Lieberman, more from President Clinton and the smartest foriegn policy advisor EVER, Sandy “Pants” Berger. As I noted in a debate piece for our local paper – “Bush did not start the war” – Saddam’s failure to comply with the terms of the cease fire are the best reason for going to war with that evil lunatic. A cease fire is NOT the cessation of a state of war, it is a cessation of military action to reach a negoitiated settlement. Saddam, and his government accepted the terms of the cease fire and almost immediately began to breach the agreement.That was the reason for the military action taken (and not very effectively, I might add) by our former President. Now that may offend some of the enemy sympathizers –
August 8th, 2005 at 3:44 pmso be it.
Mister B, do you want to live in the USSR or the USA?
August 8th, 2005 at 3:58 pmWould all the ladies avert their eyes and cover their ears a moment. I want to say something I usually wouldn’t utter…..
Alexa, STFU, you dumb bitch.
August 8th, 2005 at 4:00 pmNarc,
Is that a loaded question?
I live in the U.S.A. and I am against open borders. I am pro-immigration, anti-illegal aliens of any kind white, black, pink or polka dot.
Can we agree on that?
August 8th, 2005 at 4:05 pmObviously, I forgot to change my name back. lol
#282 is mine.
August 8th, 2005 at 4:08 pmAh yes “Bush did not start the war”. Same argument as a six year old uses: “He made me hit him, cos he didn’t do what I wanted”. UN 1441 was the basis for the war justification – unfortunately, Saddam started complying, more or less and in their own words, Rice and Powell agreed with the CIA that Saddam was contained and his WMD programs had not been reconstituted. Stop rewiting history. Saddam is not a lunatic, BTW, he’s a crime boss. You call him a lunatic because you can’t understand his motivation and how that leads to his actions.
August 8th, 2005 at 4:11 pmWas There Really a Weekend
Monday blogs (on-air and others) from the WB42 5:30 Report. Lots of politics, military and Iraq posts.
August 8th, 2005 at 4:24 pmAlexa,
do you really believe that there are ANY members of the reality based community that sympathizes with the enemy?
being a critic of the idiotic policies of the current adminstration does NOT make a person an enemy sympathizer. Calling such a person one makes you
appear to be one of very limited depth. I will
refrain from using the b word to refer to you.
please go regurgitate Hannity/Limbaugh crap elsewhere.
else come here with compelling facts not old, tired and disproven talking points.
August 8th, 2005 at 5:43 pmAlexa, Dearie, You need a time out. Hussein knew he had to do whatever he had to or lose his grip on Iraqi wealth because he was in a place with no corners. What Bush told the public was aimed to backing the policies without understanding his real reasons, and those real reasons were clear enough to Clarke and O’Niel for them to quit rather than participate in the set-up. Bush depends on your thinking he is an O.K. guy who wouldn’t lie. But he would, and he has, and he will. So please dispense your thoughtless loyalty to a costume. Take a look at what has happened to people who depend on the good intentions of those they have elected. Quit with all those echoes. Do some careful reading of those who are not party to this conspiracy of greed.
August 9th, 2005 at 2:54 amMisterB,If they cross the border and cannot find work they won’t cross the next time. You want to stop them, stop hiring them. They don’t risk their lives for the sheer fun and adventure.
August 9th, 2005 at 3:01 amVinlo,
I don’t hire them. lol
What has that got to do with keeping our borders secure? Americans can’t find work either.
This is our house. I don’t want uninvited guests sneaking in the window at midnight. Do you?
August 9th, 2005 at 12:09 pmThere are solutions to this problem but at this time in history, we need to concentrate on what is best for Americans. The ship of state is taking on water and We cant be bothered now, to bail out some other boats; like Mexico, Canada, Israel, Iraq, Iran, or whatever the F**k.
The people’s authority over its government has been usurped by corporate fascists, who intend to spread their sick ideology across the globe. The supreme law of the land is the Constitution and Bill of Rights. The unalterable Rights have been altered and people are waking up. Once We the People, have some control over our governments policy, we can attempt to mend fences, so to speak.
August 9th, 2005 at 12:36 pm#294 – Some good arguments here – I agree with doing best for our country and the law of the land being the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. But where you head straight over the top is the hyperbole of “Corporate Fascism”. The failure of the left to appeal to swing voters is the facetious rhetoric. When they come to my house – or your house – and put a gun to our heads and shout “Shop at WalMart or else…I’ll cede your point.
August 9th, 2005 at 7:20 pmalexa ,
I assure you that I’m being anything but facetious or hyperbolic when using the term “Corporate Fascism�.
They don’t have to force me at gunpoint to shop at Wal-Mart. It’s the only store in town.
You need mental eyeglasses, dear.
August 9th, 2005 at 7:46 pmThese idiots have the power, and they will continue to have it for a very long time to come. I do not know what it’s going to take to bring this country back to rational thought again, the 11 September attacks were a godsend to the likes of this neo conservative trash. Just what they needed. But, no one studies history anymore. This will pass away, but the damage they inflict upon this nation will not. Thomas Jefferson must be turning in his grave! Where in hell are the people of vision that this country once produced?
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