AUDIO EXCLUSIVE: Cindy Sheehan Responds To Right Wing Smear
AUDIO EXCLUSIVE: Cindy Sheehan Responds To Right Wing Smear
The right-wing may be on the attack, but Cindy Sheehan’s voice won’t be silenced. She appeared on the Bill Press Show (with Christy Harvey) this morning to continue speaking truth to power. Here’s Cindy Sheehan, in her own words —
One of the more underhanded smears launched by the right wing came when Michelle Malkin said she didn’t think Casey Sheehan, Cindy’s son killed in Iraq, would approve of what his mom was doing. This morning Sheehan responded:
“I didn’t know Casey knew Michelle Malkin…I’m Casey’s mother and I knew him better than anybody else in the world…I can’t bring Casey back, but I wonder how often Michelle Malkin sobbed on his grave. Did she go to his funeral? Did she sit up with him when he was sick when he was a baby?” LISTEN TO CINDY
Cindy also is standing tough against the rest of the radical right mouthpieces, calling Rush Limbaugh, Bill O’Reilly, Sean Hannity and Matt Drudge “despicable”:
“[They don’t have skin in the game. They don’t have anybody over there. They don’t have sleepless nights worried about their loved ones.” LISTEN TO CINDY
Note to White House: Cindy Sheehan’s not giving up. You can listen to the rest of this morning’s interview HERE.
(You can support Cindy Sheehan by visiting her website, www.meetwithcindy.org.)
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“”She has aligned herself now with Michael Moore, who considers those very Iraqi terrorists Minutemen. That’s what he calls them! He’s likening them to the American revolutionaries and considers them heroes. I can’t imagine that Casey Sheehan would approve of such behavior, conduct and rhetoric.”
So Malkin was panning Moore’s behavior. Nice job of “Dowdifying” her quote
August 11th, 2005 at 10:39 amCould we expect any better (or worse) than the treatment that has been doled out to Ms. Sheehan? They disparaged their icon’s widow, Nancy Reagan, when she called for an increase in stem-cell funding soon after his passing.
I can admire someone for sticking to their principles, when they have them. When you value being ‘right’ above all else, then you are simply wrong.
August 11th, 2005 at 10:46 amBrainster,
August 11th, 2005 at 10:51 amI’ll respond to you one time. Stay away from semantics. We get the jest of Malkin just fine.
This site scares the hell out of the right. I love that.
August 11th, 2005 at 10:52 amSpeaking of semantics, “gist” “jest”, why bother speaking of Malkin or responding to Brainster at all. This site scares them so bad they wet themselves when they get here.
August 11th, 2005 at 10:53 amBrainster  Nice Spin. The Point is that Malkin is trying to put words in a dead soldier’s mouth. It’s a ridiculous form of argument – I asked Ronald Reagan and he agreed with me.
August 11th, 2005 at 10:56 amCindy Sheehan has the right to say whatever she wants. Her family has devoted their lives to the military and thats more than any chickenhawk can say.
My dad was a Korean War Veteran and I guarantee that if he could speak from the grave he would invite Cindy over for a beer and they would spend hours talking about what a disgrace the Bush administration is to REAL PATRIOTS.
August 11th, 2005 at 10:57 amThanks, LPL. I’m still waking up. It is a rather nice slip of the keyboard tongue, however.
August 11th, 2005 at 10:58 amNotice how quick they respond? They must be monitoring this site. I’m holding up my second, third, and fourth fingers. Read between the lines, GOP.
August 11th, 2005 at 10:59 amI know if they are visiting Brainster they are certainly not posting…
August 11th, 2005 at 11:01 amNo biggy, I do it myself. We all do.
I didn’t visit Brainless’s site until you mentioned it.
I wonder if he knows Churchill was a liberal?
August 11th, 2005 at 11:05 amAnd if he’s a Brit, he should.
August 11th, 2005 at 11:06 amIf you’re gonna back junior in this invasion, I say, put your a$s where your mouth is.
August 11th, 2005 at 11:09 amThe sad thing, other than the obvious disrespect being piled on Cindy, is that I flipped through the news channels last night and this morning for news about Cindy’s sit-in and there was nothing. I probably missed something on Fox…
August 11th, 2005 at 11:14 amIsn’t this eerily similar to the tactic O’Reilly used to try to shut up the young guy whose dad died in the World Trade Center — out of respect for your father, I don’t have to listen to your foolishness? Only this time Malkin says it. Apparently to the right every dead person is a blank canvas onto which they can paint anything they want.
August 11th, 2005 at 11:17 amBrainless ain’t a conservative. He’s a fascist pig. Quite a few Brits were sympathetic to the Nazis. I bet Brainless’ father was Lord Haw Haw
Quotes Falsely Attributed
These quotes make for good story-telling but popular myth has falsely attributed them to Churchill.
“Conservative by the time you’re 35″
“If you’re not a liberal when you’re 25, you have no heart. If you’re not a conservative by the time you’re 35, you have no brain.” There is no record of anyone hearing Churchill say this. Paul Addison of Edinburgh University makes this comment: “Surely Churchill can’t have used the words attributed to him. He’d been a Conservative at 15 and a Liberal at 35! And would he have talked so disrespectfully of Clemmie, who is generally thought to have been a lifelong Liberal?”
http://winstonchurchill.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=112
August 11th, 2005 at 11:17 am[...] Think Progress has the audio and transcript of Cindy Sheehan responding to the smear campaign she’s been getting from the wingnuts. I particularly liked this comment about Michelle Malkin’s ability to talk to folks beyond the grave: “I didn’t know Casey knew Michelle Malkin…I’m Casey’s mother and I knew him better than anybody else in the world…I can’t bring Casey back, but I wonder how often Michelle Malkin sobbed on his grave. Did she go to his funeral? Did she sit up with him when he was sick when he was a baby?” [...]
August 11th, 2005 at 11:18 amLOL when I tried to open brianster’s site I got ” this document contains no data”. guess you could say the same thing about him.
Was wondering exactly how has Cindy Sheehan aligned herself with micheal moore? did they sighn a pact? and if they did what does that have to do with her unapphiness about the death of her son?
August 11th, 2005 at 11:21 amI just posted this at Brainster:
Here’s the definition of align:
-To arrange in a line or so as to be parallel
-To ally (oneself, for example) with one side of an argument or cause.
If Malkin says Sheehan is aligned with Moore, then she’s saying Sheehan = Moore. They’re the same thing when you align them. They’re on the same team, according to Malkin. Therefor, when Malkin says Casey Sheehan would never approve of Michael Moore’s behavior, she’s saying the same thing about Cindy Sheehan.
The cropping of Malkin’s quote is in this case (and I acknowledge that it’s rare) accurate and acceptable.
August 11th, 2005 at 11:24 amdropping micheal moores name was simply a way to villify cindy sheehan in the minds of the right wing.. I noticed Brainster has not posted again here. too afraid to I would guess.
August 11th, 2005 at 11:27 amNew right wing slogan: Support Our Troops – Trash Their Moms.
August 11th, 2005 at 11:32 amI think we should all e-mail MSM and find out why there is no coverage, I think we all know the spin, or I should say the lack or response. How could we organize a few thoussand or more people to go down ther and support her? This women is an icon, exactly what we have been waiting to rally behind. We should be contacting our congressman and asking them to press that spineless King George and find out why he won’t even acknowledge the woman.
August 11th, 2005 at 11:42 amI hope we can get her some additional support, I think we could make this the beginning of the end for this fascist reich.
In a sane civilized society (a culture of life), the worst that would be said of a “Cindy Sheehan” is; “I don’t agree with her, but I feel for her loss”. How low can they go. I don’t really want to know.
August 11th, 2005 at 11:51 amI’m in Fort Worth and will be heading there Saturday.
I plan on bringing some food and drinks. I’m trying to think of what to put on my protest poster. Any good ideas?
Something short and to the point like – Worried about one Mom? Just Wait!
August 11th, 2005 at 11:53 amI think this lady is an American hero, something we have been sorely in need of for a couple of years, now.
August 11th, 2005 at 11:54 amMy hope is that she’ll spark peaceful demonstrations of such size and scope as to get these arrogant chickenhawks on the run, and perhaps turn the mid-terms our way. Enough is enough. And I can’t see how they will score with anyone but their most fanatical supporters when they stoop to trashing the mother of a dead soldier. Conservatives (true conservatives, that is) are already deserting them in droves.
Whenever you hear any right-wing bigmouth cite Michael Moore, MoveOn.org, George Soros or Hillary Clinton it means they have aboslutely nothing to their argument and are relying of their followers to associate the liberal bogeymen with whomever is there target.
Bill O’Reilly’s “No Spin Zone” is a ridiculous joke.
August 11th, 2005 at 11:54 amI have tried to get my local rag’s attention to this – nothing doing. They soil their shorts at the thought of bringing duh-bya’s name into something that doesn’t shower him with praise. And to think, my uber-con mom doesn’t like the same paper ’cause it is too “liberal”!?!?! Only one local news outlet has mentioned Ms Sheehan’s situation, and yet even that was because some local ladies piled in a van and scooted on out to Crawford to support Cindy. I e-mailed Cindy just last week and she was super kind by responding before she bugged out to Dallas.
August 11th, 2005 at 11:55 amWhat gets me about the O’Lie-llys and Malkin’s of this sad world is that they are acting like Cindy is ‘anti-military’ – no she couldn’t be more pro-military, she doesn’t want them MISUSED the way they are. Last time I checked, they take an oath to UPHOLD the Constitution of the U.S., and to defend it against all enemies, foreign and domestic. Well, our guys/gals need to be back here to get the biggest terrahrist permanently out of the White House and imprisoned on his pseudo-ranch w/all the horses that could scare him into one of the torture sit’s at Gitmo/Abu Ghraib! I have a very dear friend over in Iraq and I want to see him again, safe and sound! Not sacrificed to the glory of shrub and the profit machines at Halli-burden and the gas co. exec’s golden retirements. This crap needs to end now.
Thanks for this opportunity to post – I enjoy reading the posts by the intelligent folks (that would pretty much exclude the ‘rightwingers’ to a stern degree).
‘THIS’ would be just why a C student should NEVER be elected to such a position.
Comment by Rusty Shackleford
You should use your real name here.
Krusty Shicklgruber. Dr. Krusty Shicklgruber to no one but yourself. And I will sue you for malpractice and pretending to have a brain.
August 11th, 2005 at 11:58 amI doubt Moore ment the “Minutemen” of 1776.
August 11th, 2005 at 11:59 amHowever the “Minutemen” of 1996 or 2006 are every bit a terrorist organization. They preach guerilla warfare & espouse tactical uses of guns.
Right on Elspeth, except shrub wasn’t elected. :)
August 11th, 2005 at 11:59 amApparently to the right every dead person is a blank canvas onto which they can paint anything they want.
So Bush’s plan is to create a lot more blank canvases for his allies.
Oh and news for Malkin: Ronald Reagan also called them the moral equivalent of our founding fathers.
August 11th, 2005 at 12:02 pm#24 MisterB, How about a poster that reads, “If you wont talk to Cindy Mr. Bush at least let me give your daughters some military brochures”.
I know it’s too long but wouldn’t the best solution to Cindy’s problem be to have those who oppose her send their children to Iraq so they can know how it feels to lose a child?
The cons are still arguing about Rush’s ratings (below) so I guess their just too busy to sign up themselves or their children. Typical chickenhawks!
August 11th, 2005 at 12:02 pmPlease forgive me for going WAY off the topic but how about that new Mick Jagger ditty? *giggle* This is the only way that sheeple will believe what most intelligent, free thinkers already know as fact – have a celebrity sing it to them. I know, disgusting that even over and avobe the braindead media, sheeple will always trust the Stones. Yikes and great at the same time.
Again, sorry for the digression.
August 11th, 2005 at 12:05 pmMisterB: “TREASON”
August 11th, 2005 at 12:06 pmThe list of musicians that the neocons and their supporters don’t consider enemies is growing awful short.
Oh well, they can always count on country music for a good song about putting boots in people’s asses.
August 11th, 2005 at 12:06 pm[...] Cindy Sheehan is a one-woman soundbite machine. That’s what happens when a person speaks honestly from their soul. Check out the latest, said in response to the winger thugs who are smearing her: “[They don’t have skin in the game. They don’t have anybody over there. They don’t have sleepless nights worried about their loved ones.â€? [...]
August 11th, 2005 at 12:07 pmI SO want to see little Jenna and Babs on the front line. Why won’t they do their part? Really, if they aren’t intelligent (think Chelsea) and won’t be running for office or educating themselves, do a public service.
Or better yet, “entertaining” the troops. If it’s good enough for Bob Hope, it’s good enough for baby Bushco.
August 11th, 2005 at 12:08 pmI love that comment, “you don’t have skin in the game.” That will be repeated!
August 11th, 2005 at 12:09 pmI like that she is standing up to the right wing media thugs.
August 11th, 2005 at 12:11 pmI should be stunned that the Right would slander the mother of a dead soldier, who gave his life for his country, just to score some political points….
… but I’m not. I’m really not stunned at all. I’m just saddened by it.
August 11th, 2005 at 12:13 pmits a pretty typical ad-hominen attack. A favorite ploy of the right wing.
August 11th, 2005 at 12:15 pmCindy Sheehan shouldn’t have to defend herself or her actions against the likes of the Limbaugh, O’Reilly or Hannity. Lets look at the war records those three chickenhawks: limbaugh got of of serving in Vietnam by dodging the draft because he had a cyst on his ass, which he made sure he didn’t correct until the war was over. O’Rielly, the patriot? He dodged the draft during the Vietnam War by getting three deferments and staying in College until it was safe to come out of hiding at the end of the war. Hannity was too young to serve during the Vietnam War. Later, when he was of age, he used the same excuse as Dick Cheney as he had better things to do than enlist.
Those three pukes have to gall to question a woman who has experienced the ultimate sacrifice: the life of her son? They need someone to kick their g———d teeth in.
August 11th, 2005 at 12:15 pmYep, Michelle Malkins qoute was… inappropriate to say the least. Mrs. Sheehan is right to be upset.
August 11th, 2005 at 12:16 pmYes cynical, but sheeple do trust stars and musicians and mass media. They will see the concert and they will now be familiar with the term NEOCON. Most folks down here in TN have no idea what that means. Well, until today when everyone at work here is asking what NEOCON means. HAH, I’m more than happy to fill them in.
August 11th, 2005 at 12:16 pm“you don’t have skin in the game”…exactly, when are the chickenhawks who spend their days blogging going to sign up to make Cindy eat her words.
Were still waiting.
THE ARMY IS GIVING OUT FREE WATCHES!
August 11th, 2005 at 12:16 pmSeveral years ago, the Seattle Times (my hometown newspaper) printed a weekly column written by Michelle Malkin. I don’t recall now if she was syndicated back then or not, but sure as anything, her column would be followed (on average) by seven to 10 letters to the editor showing her with source material how often she was wrong with her latest column.
The fact that she’s much bigger with the GOP now than she was then shows how so few Republicans are willing to engage in some critical thinking.
What’s beyond scary for me is that Bush has aligned himself with God (the war is something God told him to do, etc.) and like God, there are no tangible qualities involved. If you ask anyone who voted for Bush in 2004 why they did it, chances are you’ll get a feeling they had or an emotion that Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld played on during the campaign. In every single tangible reason why a President should be re-elected, Bush fails. Economy. Environment. Security. Bush prevailed because his people did a better job scaring Americans than the other side did making them feel safer.
Cheney actually said (words to the effect because it was almost a year ago now) “There’s a danger that if we make the wrong decision in November, we’ll get hit again.”
If Cheney had been running as my VP when he said that, I would’ve cut him loose.
During an audio clip of the 2005 inauguration, I heard a woman (who was there in DC) say she was “beyond relieved” that Bush won again.
What that says to me in plain English is that the Bushies are doing a very good job of scaring Americans and it will keep working for them until Americans pull their collective heads out and pay attention to what’s going on.
August 11th, 2005 at 12:19 pmSee this Blogcritic opinion column – it mentions Malkin – and there are a couple of active-duty soldiers that are making their own voices heard in the comments section.
Example:
“As a member of the Armed Forces of these United States, I shall indeed speak out on this issue.
The war in Iraq is a joke, albeit a very unfunny one. The banality of the CnC’s justifications for starting it are more frightening than pitiful.
There are no WMD’s in Iraq.
Saddam was never a threat to us, nor was he in any way responsible for the tragedy of 9/11. Oh, sure, he was a REALLY BAD MAN, but only if you were a Kurd or a Shiite.
And he certainly didn’t have ties to al-Qaeda. Last I checked, he hated fundamentalists about as much as he hated Kurds and Shiites.
Now that I as a member of the US Armed Forces have weighed in on this subject, I invite the chickenhawk neo-cons to vent their ire toward me at their own leisure: I certainly love being lectured by Proud F**kin’ Civilians about duty, honor and country.”
August 11th, 2005 at 12:31 pmCindy Sheehan Getting Press Attention
Cindy Sheehan’s sleepover outside the brush-clearer’s compound in Crawford is starting to get a bit more play in the press.
August 11th, 2005 at 12:32 pmMalkin supports the Minutemen. The Minutemen include white supremacists. Therefore Malkin needs to be held accountable for the actions of white supremacists, right?
August 11th, 2005 at 12:34 pmLeatherneck,
August 11th, 2005 at 12:34 pmThat cyst on Limbaugh’s ass is his brain.
Shut up about Michael Moore, he has a right to his views and Cindy Sheehan has not aligned herself with anyone, they have aligned with HER stoopid!
August 11th, 2005 at 12:39 pmBrainster has a children’s attitude about war. It is not a football game where you root for the home team. It is not a contest. or a lottery, or a rah rah human undertaking. Or are you dehumanizing, the most childish of all?
August 11th, 2005 at 12:39 pmPersonally, I am very grateful for Casey Sheehan’s service and sacrifice. I know I can never repay the debt I owe to him. Neither can anyone else.
My heart goes out to Mrs. Sheehan for her loss. But I also remamber that this is the same grieving mother who met President Bush in 2004, and who gave him high praise for sincerely caring about the sacrifices of our military men and women and their families. One cannot listen to her words, then and now, without being struck by the very real conflict between these two Mrs. Sheehans.
Mrs. Sheehan has become a different person as a result of her grief. That is plain to see. It also is probably a phenomenon that most grief counselors would call “normal” after such a loss. But it is not a valid basis for a credible political statement – especially one that contradicts what Mrs. Sheehan has said before.
In war, every soldier’s death is a tragedy. That does not devalue the soldier’s life, nor does it devalue the soldier’s mission. It does not discredit the U.S. military action in Iraq, nor does it discredit President Bush as our Commander in Chief.
Casey Sheehan died defending his country in a just war. His life was short, but he achieve far greater valor than those of us who will live decades longer. May he rest in peace, and may God comfort his family in their grief.
August 11th, 2005 at 12:41 pmThat is what I posted on brainsters site hawk. Malkin added moore in to villify cindy sheehan in the minds of the wing ditto heads.
it works like this:
we hate Micheal Moore. cindy sheehan is aligned with Micheal Moore. Cindy Sheehan= Micheal Moore. We hate Cindy Sheehan.
it devalues her grief, and makes ditto heads see red instead of rational thougt. All in all its a very good move on Malkins part.
August 11th, 2005 at 12:42 pmI doubt Michelle Malkin anywhere to be seen when the burial detail handed Cindy Sheehan the folded flag from her son’s casket.
August 11th, 2005 at 12:42 pmMichele can you detail how the war was justified?
was it the wmd’s, freedom for Iraqi’s? to supress terrorism? spreading democracy?
so far all of these have failed.
August 11th, 2005 at 12:45 pmSo Michelle, Cindy Sheehan is just…sick?
August 11th, 2005 at 12:45 pmNeither were you, Johnboy.
August 11th, 2005 at 12:45 pmHow the conservative cess pool Michelle swims in operates. She does look like a grouper.
http://mediamatters.org/items/200508100009
August 11th, 2005 at 12:46 pmSigns for #24
MOM BOMB
MOM GOIN’ NEW-Q-LER
MOM’S NEW Q LER OPTION
CHICKEN BARBECUE GEORGE? NO APPETITE?
August 11th, 2005 at 12:46 pmBad news for Bush : Cindy Sheehan is making news and add to that Monday’s CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll says 57 percent said the war has made the United States less safe from terrorism (so far his strongest polling topic)
So yes, you guessed it, it’s 9/11 wounds re-opening time.. Rummy is in charge of arranging a “9/11 march”, I kid you not!!
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wn_report/story/335938p-286948c.html
August 11th, 2005 at 12:50 pmI saw the thing about the 9/11 march. reminds of a political cartoon I saw. bush was king kong, and 9/11 was the empire state building. the punch line was “he always climbs that thing when he is scared”
August 11th, 2005 at 12:51 pm[...] ThinkProgress has the audio from a radio show interview this morning with Cindy Sheehan, the mother of a soldier killed in Iraq who’s in Crawford, TX asking W to give her an explanation. As usual, the right wing smear machine got into to full gear to try to disparage this woman, even though she’s given the greatest sacrifice. [...]
August 11th, 2005 at 12:54 pmPost #52,
Two points of disagreement to your sincere comments.
1) Bush discredited himself as commander in chief by lying to the country and spinning the war into Iraq. He has yet to come clean. He has a grieving mother in the rain and heat down the road. If he was a christian, he would have her come to the ranch, into his home, and console her pain. That’s what JC would do. But, he cares nothing about citizens that don’t contribute megadollars to his efforts. He is not christian, he is weak and pathetic.
2) The military discredits their efforts when the have no conscience it question the misguided efforts of these extermists. I dare challenge that if these extermists wanted a nuke to be dropped the pentagon would not debate alternatives, but only ask what day and time.
August 11th, 2005 at 12:58 pm#52 – Nice thoughtful statement, except that your premise is wrong: that Mrs. Sheehan’s conflicting statements are an indication of some sort of psychological condition.
But in her own words, her change of heart towards the president (not the war, she was always against it) were caused by several things, including the Duelfer report and the Downing Street Memo. Nobody, including yourself, has countered that argument of hers yet.
It is precisely because of these NEW revelations that prior Bush supporters have turned against him.
August 11th, 2005 at 12:59 pmI remember way way back when they had the Titanic Parade.I was one of several who dressed up as an iceberg, my cousin was dressed up as the aft 1/2 of the ship and my sister was in the lifeboat wailers chorus. Great time. Those were the days.
August 11th, 2005 at 1:04 pmThe other day CBS News reported that the Pentagon knew the planner of 9-11 was living in the U.S. for a year prior to the attack. The Pentagon had charted all suspected terrorists and failed to share the info they gathered with the C.I.A. and F.B.I.
Remember when Bushie blamed the intelligence community for allowing 9-11 to happen? We all know now that the blame was directed at Joe Wilson because he wouldn’t play the lie game.
I haven’t heard any other news source report this fact that the PENTAGON knew of the 9-11 plot and failed to do anything about it. DONALD RUMSFELD knows everything that goes on at the Pentagon as it is his job to know.
This fact is being investigated by 9-11 Commission. Former Illinois Governor Jim Thompson who heads the commission has declared on film that he will investigate.
Dear Cindy, the Pentagon led by Donald Rumsfeld allowed our nation to be attacked to gain support for the Iraq war. Your son honorably joined the military as he thought fighting in Iraq was the right thing to do. He lost his life based on a lie and all those who lied to your son will be held accountable.
votetoimpeach.org
August 11th, 2005 at 1:05 pmWhy does the right wing hate mothers? I thought they were all for the family and were a “culture of life”? So why are they beating up on this grieving mother who is only trying to ensure that other mothers will not have to grieve also. Funny way to support a “culture of life” – by widespread, indescriminate killing and maiming.
We as a nation have a lot to answer for by allowing this to go on as long as it has. Cindy shames us all and I stand in awe of her courage.
August 11th, 2005 at 1:06 pmto the right wingers:
exactly what is a mother supposed to do when her child goes to war for a president and dies, only to find that the president lied about the reasons her son fought and died? is she a “flip flopper?” do you “FLIP FLOP?” if you won’t play along when someone lies and it gets your child killed?
seriously. the president lies and her kid dies. what’s the plan? go play golf? take a 5 week long vacation?
I support Cindy Sheehan!!
August 11th, 2005 at 1:06 pmCindy Sheehan is awesome. I agree with Jim her courage is remarkable. Finally, a lone dissenter, a voice of reason to the extermist spin and lies, a true democrat.
Where are all the women in congress? They should be right by her side. They should be calling attention to Bush’s shameful lack of compassion.
Does anyone know how to get her supplies, clothing, comfort items? Is anyone in Texas organizing collections?
August 11th, 2005 at 1:21 pmYou ghouls are all the same. You ignore the thousands of troops and their families who support the President, but you glom on to one grieving mother whose protest pleases you all. You are bloodsuckers, one and all.
August 11th, 2005 at 1:21 pmComment to Michele M: I appreciate your thoughts on this subject but it has been debunked. Drudge started this mess by selectively quoting the article from the Vacaville Reporter. If you would take the time to do the research you would find that the original author tof the Reporter article as well as the editor of the paper have stated, unequivically that Cindy has not deviated from her statements in the original article. They both state that had the article been reviewed in its entirety the facts would be known and the Right Wing Noise Machine would be outed for the propogandist they really are. There is no contradiction from Cindy Sheehan. Please look up the Vacaville Reporter on your search engine and see for yourself. By the way, The reporter is not in any way a “Liberal” newspaper and Vacaville tends to be more conservative. They are also home to many service men and women stationed at Travis Air Force Base.
August 11th, 2005 at 1:21 pmWGN News Chicago (Republican station) just aired the Cindy Sheehan story.
Another victory for the Bush Bashers!
August 11th, 2005 at 1:22 pmCasey could you please have one of your so called Bush suppporting soldiers send us a message. LOL! There is no such thing until you and your other chickenhawk friends get your ass to Iraq.
We won’t hold our breath.
August 11th, 2005 at 1:24 pmI wish I could be down there in Texas showing my support for Cindy, and all the people who have lost family members in this debacle of a quagmire. I have a website. http://www.thehollywoodliberal.com
August 11th, 2005 at 1:25 pmI want to post these audio clips, to help spread the word about Cindy, becuase the mainstream media refuses to touch the story.
HL
Check out the site.
Casey,
August 11th, 2005 at 1:31 pmI know 14 moms in Brookpark Ohio that won’t be voting republican anytime soon either. Your blind obediance to a group of misguided extermist ideologs is shameful. You are a traitor to democracy.
Right on David B!
August 11th, 2005 at 1:38 pmRun georgie Run…If your not careful people will start calling you chicken george….go on vacation ,troubles here, oh right, your on vacation..She only wants to talk to you..why are you afraid to talk to her..
August 11th, 2005 at 1:39 pmDragging the Brookpark tragedies into this just proves my point: You all are bloodsuckers!
By the way, I note that you can’t name a single grieving Brookpark mother who is using her loss to attack the President. People from Ohio have more class and strength of character than that.
So do the Blue Star Moms of my home town, whose losses are every bit as tragic as Mrs. Sheehan’s. They still support the war, and they have chosen to grieve in private. Try to respect that, if you can.
August 11th, 2005 at 1:39 pmWe’ve transcribed portions of this interview and posted them in our usual format: easy to read, easy to print, easy to copy.
Please help us get tons of this stuff to the streets as soon as possible. It’s the least we can do for her.
And here’s the link.
Being The Media has never been easier.
August 11th, 2005 at 1:40 pmThe Whispering Campaign
psstpsstpsst.blogspot.com
Visit. Print. Copy. Distribute. Repeat.
Knowledge Is Power! Pass It On!!
my sign will read ‘My son will not die for bush and his dick’. under dick i will write in small letters ‘cheney’.
August 11th, 2005 at 1:44 pmBy the way, I note that you can’t name a single grieving Brookpark mother who is using her loss to attack the President. People from Ohio ……
August 11th, 2005 at 1:49 pm…
August 11th, 2005 at 1:50 pmsome people are weaker or haven’t woken up yet to speak up.
[...] As we noted earlier, Mrs. Sheehan’s foreign policy views deserve no special consideration because she is grieving. Cindy Sheehan is an anti-war activist. She co-founded an anti-war activist group, Gold Star Families for Peace. She has aligned herself with other leftist anti-war groups, like Code Pink and MoveOn.org. She has every right to be against the war, and to state her case. But many on the left are responding to any criticism of Sheehan with emotional cries like “how dare you attack a grieving mother?” When you start an organized activist group and engage in public political commentary, you aren’t immune from criticism because you’ve lost a loved one. It just isn’t fair to claim Sheehan can say anything she wants, including some pretty nasty personal attacks against President Bush’s character, but it’s out of bounds for anyone to respond. But of course the president’s enemies in the anti-war movement have no interest in fairness or honest debate. [...]
August 11th, 2005 at 1:57 pmCasey,
I was born and lived in Ohio for 44 years, I think I know a little more about the state than you. Its a good place to be FROM if your a liberal. You’re missing the whole point like most of you thick-headed conservatives. Cindy disgraces no one, her’s is an action of courage and compassion. Many democrats in more powerful positions than Cindy have done far less to get to the truth.
Every person that has died in any combat was someones son or daughter. Every loss is tradic. If you cannot recognize her courage and commitment then sir you are not American, for she stands for the essence of an American, the right to a dissenting opinion that she chooses to express herself freely.
Try some critical thinking once and a while. It doesn’t hurt, you may learn something.
August 11th, 2005 at 1:58 pmCindy is a brave, strong woman – and she’s also a heartbroken mother. Unless you have lost a child as she has, no one has the right to criticize her. It’s one thing to lose a family member in a war that is JUSTIFIED – but Bush and his pals took the USA to war for their very own selfish, power hungry reasons. Bush and pals care not one IOTA for anyone who is killed – (no coffins = no guilt). The WHOLE WORLD is less safe now thanks to Bush and pals. There were other ways of settling things with Iraq. They knew there were no WMD. What an incredible deceit to the American people and a slap in the face to the young men and women who are in the military.
August 11th, 2005 at 2:06 pmCindy Sheehan is showing all of us that when you stand up to the neighborhood bully, the neighborhood bully is actually the weakest, most cowardly boy on the block. Go Cindy Go!!
August 11th, 2005 at 2:16 pmIf you guys spent even one tenth of your energy and passion on WORKING with the other side of the political isle instead of running to trash and hate them, maybe we could get more important things done in this country. Keep on hating. It’s working for you guys so far right?
August 11th, 2005 at 2:18 pmI just saw our fearless leader giving a press talk on his Crawford ranch where he was asked about Sheehan. He gave his typical stumbling, tongue-tied non-answer;
August 11th, 2005 at 2:19 pmthe man is a cold, calculating fool — is that an oxymoron? Bush is an oxymoron!
Cindy is right. You can’t imagine how it is until one of your own is over there. My adopted son spent 1.75 YEARS in Iraq in the Army Reserves. I have a small glimpse of what Cindy knows.
King George Il has lied to too many people. Some of the people have awoken to realize they’ve been duped. Here’s to the MSM covering the story: May they finally start doing their jobs!
August 11th, 2005 at 2:24 pmsure chaim cause bush has really reached out to work with the democrats. (rolls eyes) please try to come up with something original not spout rush limbuaugh.
August 11th, 2005 at 2:24 pmSadly, the entire Iraq debate seems to have become symbolized by the grief of single soldier’s mother. For the forces of the left and right, Cindy Sheehan has become a Rorshach Test for America’s Iraq policy. People see what they want to see. Unfortunately, the partisan venom and media circus in Crawford aren’t making the true picture of our Iraq strategy any clearer.
For more, see:
“The Cindy Sheehan Rorschach Test”
August 11th, 2005 at 2:33 pmChaim, your side of the aisle taught everyone how to do it best.
August 11th, 2005 at 2:34 pmI have a Step son who is a Lance Corporal USMC. His Step Brother is an Army Ranger currently deployed in Operation Enduring Freedom. My primary complaint about the Republicans is their children are AWOL from the fight. My complaint about my Fellow Democrats is they are delusional regarding the nature of our enemy.
With bombings in China who has no troops in Iraq or Afghanistan,& the Phillippines who withdrew from Iraq. Al-Queda and its inspired minions continue to wage war with the entire world.
This is a clash of cultures. With our tolerant, pluralistic, and free culture at stake. Moslem Extremists are convinced they will win. They have greater resolve. They point out they defeated the Mongols and did not cave in. They are convinced the future is theirs. With less than 2,000 US dead nearly half the US is ready to cut and run. This is cowardice pure and simple. We cannot compromise, buy off, negotiate away the issues. This is no phoney Gulf of Tonkin incident.
We have been a target since the 70s of Islamic Extremism and that will not change regardless of who is in the White House. That the issue of the survival of our Republic eludes the Democrats is the reason we are headed for the way of the Whigs.
I have sympathy for Ms. Cindy Sheehan. Losing a child is a very difficult loss one of life’s toughest. But Cindy is being used as a pawn by Extremist Leftist organizations. Her Husband has Divorced her, and her other son is considering Joining the US Military and following his Brothers footsteps.
Cindy had a meeting with President Bush in Fort Lewis WA. Anything more is her vanity, arrogance, and political Agenda. We had an election. Kerry and The Democratic Left lost. Get over it. Another Midterm election is coming up in 2006 Democrats must prepare for that. That’s how we settle foreign policy issues is electing representatives who reflect our views not stomping our feet and throwing a tantrum.
While this may excite many Anti-War activists. Those who volunteer to serve which her Son Casey did over his Mother’s objections understand the consequences of that decision. HE WAS NOT DRAFTED. Men die in War especially young men. Cindy go home and grieve for your Son. He died an honorable death trying to extend freedom to a Nation that has lived under tyranny.
August 11th, 2005 at 2:38 pmChaim,
August 11th, 2005 at 2:41 pmThat’s weak, if your a conservative republican your going to have to bring a stronger game than that to post on the blog site.
Khan-
most of the left was behind the hunt for bin Laden. you can claim all you want that the left doesn’t know what it is facing but that is not true.Despite the shrill yells from the right Clinton was very aware of the danger of muslim extremists, and tried to pass that warning onto Bush.
you are correct that the war is being fought in china, and the philippines and everywhere else. Most of us see the war in Iraq as ill conceived, and believe that it does nothing to advance the defeat of the extremists.
According to intelligence agencies world wide Al-Qaidi is as strong as ever despite world efforts to the contrary. clearly establishing a base in iraq was not the right move. we are tying our troops to a specific geographic area while our enemies move around the world.
August 11th, 2005 at 2:44 pmMichelle Malkin = Mother Teresa?
Back in the day, one of those old teeny-bopper sitcoms featured an elderly lady who had worked most of her life as as a school cafeteria attendant–lunch lady in prose–that claimed that she had 400+ children. This, despite the fact that, we…
August 11th, 2005 at 2:47 pmBush is an oxymoron!
Minus a few letters, yes.
August 11th, 2005 at 2:50 pmThe whole “clash of cultures” thing is and always has been a smoke screen for American imperialism. Not that there aren’t bad crazies out there, but they’re only dangerous when they get the kind of widespread support that comes from having your country screwed over by a foreign superpower.
August 11th, 2005 at 2:54 pmSo, Khan… are you saying that if one’s son volunteers to go to war, and it turns out that the war was waged on dishonest terms… that one’s son was fooled into voluteering… one has no right to complain?
That’s not logical at all…
Mrs. Sheehan’s constitutional right to speak freely, to criticize her government, doesn’t just go away, you know…
August 11th, 2005 at 2:56 pmChaim – uh, that’s aisle…. “If you guys spent even one tenth of your energy and passion on WORKING with the other side of the political isle…” Two totally different ‘things’ my boy.
August 11th, 2005 at 2:58 pmQuote from Michelle M: “But it is not a valid basis for a credible political statement”
Anyone who would utter this statement has a profound misunderstanding of the Constitution of the United States, most notably the Bill of Rights.
The day we start listening to people such as this — who earnestly wish to judge who is qualified to make a polticial statement — is the day the American experiment has failed entirely.
August 11th, 2005 at 3:03 pmI feel really sorry for this women, she is lost in life. She has let her grief consume her soul. I hope she finds help soon and leaves that carnival of lies behind her. Sigh.
August 11th, 2005 at 3:05 pmBush is a post-turtle…..sometimes in South Texas, you come across a turtle on top of a fence post…..You can’t figure how in hell he got up there; he can’t seem to do anything there…..All you want to do is get the poor bastard down where he belongs and on his way….somewhere else!
August 11th, 2005 at 3:06 pmI watched what Bill O’Reilly did last night and he was disgraceful. What an utter bully. How crass can a person be. He gets paid mega bucks for that- to shame America with his dreadful personna.
But I listened to an hour long interview with Cindy Sheehan by Jeff Staples from Radio Left and I have two new heroes. They were both marvelous, full of humanity, intelligent thought and honest respectful exchange.
I have hope in my heart again that America might just survive the stolen election(s) afterall. We are not nearly as bad as the mainstream media leads the world to believe we are. We are not all fawning complacent idiots who are motivated by greed and get our information from television ads and FOX news.
Go Cindy Go.
August 11th, 2005 at 3:14 pmAnyone from the (compassionate) right care to take on this statement from Maureen Dowd today?:
“But (Bush’s) humanitarianism will remain inhumane as long as he fails to understand that the moral authority of parents who bury children killed in Iraq is absolute.”
August 11th, 2005 at 3:16 pmI wouldn’t expect anything less of the right wingnuts. They’d even trash their own grandmothers if it meant they could lick Bush’s butt.
August 11th, 2005 at 3:19 pmAnd what is so wrong with being aligned with Michael Moore? He has made himself rich because of the folly of Bush. He earned a Palm and his documentary Farenheit 9/11
August 11th, 2005 at 3:19 pmwas seen by more people than any documentary ever. He is a populist in a much more American way than Bush, at least to my mind. I would be flattered to be accused of being aligned with Michael Moore. He is an American darling. He is much more highly regarded in the outside world than Bush.
After several days of following the story of Cindy Sheehan’s vigil in Crawford TX, I find out today that she has a “political agenda.”
I hear about “political agendas” now and again, usually when some politician or media pundit wants to smear another politician instead of responding to a particular issue. It seems to be kind of a “Get Out Of Jail Free” card for politicians, but I didn’t realize that ordinary citizens, especially grief-stricken mothers, could have them.
I thought her agenda was pretty simple and upfront. I’ve heard her speak and she’s amazingly eloquent. With no Madison Avenue speechwriters polishing up ever-morphing little soundbites for her, she is left to speak straight from her war-torn heart. And her words have resonated with people all across the country, and indeed, the world, because we can all recognize in our hearts the difference between the raw truth and a polished lie.
Cindy is sitting in a tent in a rainy ditch in Texas with the simple agenda of meeting face to face with George Bush, and having him explain to her the “noble cause” for which he sent her son to die. If that is a political agenda, then sign me up because I, too, am waiting with the rest of America to hear an explanation of the noble cause. Cindy has said she doesn’t want one more family to have to suffer the grief that her family and thousands of others have suffered for a war based on lies. And the lies keep on comingâ€â€as fast as they can spit them out they have to spin them away. 9/11 connection? A lie. Al Qaeda? A lie. WMDs? A lie. Aluminum tubes? A lie. Yellowcake from Niger? A lie. Democracy and freedom for Iraqis? A lie. Hell hath no fury like a mother lied to about the murder of her son.
It’s a really simple thing, this political agenda, isn’t it? Exercising our first-amendment right to peaceably assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances? Demanding truth and accountability from those who are supposed to be representing us? That’s a political agenda I’d like to see Congress take up. In fact, if Cindy Sheehan has one, maybe it’s time for all of us to get one.
Deda Divine
August 11th, 2005 at 3:21 pmAustin, Texas
August 11, 2005
No, I meant ISLE as in the Island you guys live on where your whole life is fuled by hatred. On MY Island we are all laughing at you guys falling deeper and deeper down your hole. Goodnight Alice.
August 11th, 2005 at 3:24 pm“Note to White House: Cindy Sheehan’s not giving up.”
Conservatives, such as myself, don’t want Sheehan to give up. Getting the left wing out of the closet is exactly what we want. The more publicity you liberals get the better it is for us come election time. Keep up the good work.
August 11th, 2005 at 3:28 pmKahn… job,
August 11th, 2005 at 3:32 pmBaseball, hot dogs, apple pie and smearing moms.
Capt,
Moderates such as Sheehan’s family?
http://www.drudgereport.com/flashcs.htm
And what is a moderate?
Baseball, hot dogs, apple pie, calling presidents presidents murderers.
August 11th, 2005 at 3:36 pmThis is a pretty bizarre and foolish debate.
The U.S. should run its foreign policy on the basis of quitting a conflict if one parent of a soldier doesn’t agree with the objective?
President Bush did meet with Ms. Sheehan. Now she’s demanding he meet with her again so that she can accuse him of “killing” her son.
She doesn’t deserve a meeting so that she can bait a man she’s already announced she hates. President Bush won’t do it, and he’s right not to do it.
Tempest in a teapot. If she wants to get arrested, that’s her business.
August 11th, 2005 at 3:39 pmLet me just make it very clear that Ms. Sheehan’s is in the minority when it comes to military moms. What is odd is how the left is clinging to this mom hoping that they can use her as leverage. What does the left really think they will gain from all of this outside of a little egg in the face?
All of this has inspired me to go down to the cemetery a few blocks from my house and pay my respects to all of those military men who went before me but who lost their lives in combat. Hopefully I wont find anyone trampling their graves by insisting they died in vain. Respect!
August 11th, 2005 at 3:48 pmMerca thanks you all for your sacrifice, …what’s our tee time?. Can we tunnel out of the ranch?
August 11th, 2005 at 3:48 pmThe redneck spin coming from the right is more and more desperate. You might even say they are in their ‘last throes’.
August 11th, 2005 at 3:52 pmNote to Jon — #115
Please provide your research about Cindy Sheehan being in the minority regarding to military moms. Save us from antedotal evidence, please.
I’m just asking because her organization, Gold Star Families for Peace, has a burgeoning membership — which would seem to debunk your obviously biased and misguided (judging from your earlier posts) statement.
August 11th, 2005 at 3:55 pmCindy Sheehan is just one thread, in the unraveling story of the Iraq War deception. One thread at a time, as the right wing discounts every one …,”Oh that is nothing, what else do you have?”
August 11th, 2005 at 3:59 pmCindy Sheehan is in the majority of military mom’s. It’s you who are in the minority, Jon. And even if you were correct, which you are most definitely not, why would this change minds here or anywhere? Go back to hell, or whatever rock you slimed out from under.
August 11th, 2005 at 4:03 pm“Note to White House: Cindy Sheehan’s not giving up.�
Conservatives, such as myself, don’t want Sheehan to give up. Getting the left wing out of the closet is exactly what we want. The more publicity you liberals get the better it is for us come election time. Keep up the good work.
Comment by Jon  August 11, 2005 @ 3:28 pm
Same as they feel about gay folks. We don’t care what you do in the privacy of your own home, just don’t flaunt it is public and keep voting for us. You are dead, Jon, and starting to stink. Wake up and die right so we can bury you once and for all.
August 11th, 2005 at 4:06 pmThank you Ms. Malkin for you heart felt condolences as expressed above. We can feel your pain. Save the space and try Hallmark.
Apparently there are a number of “wingnuts” on this blog and I would be honored if they could, in 100 words of less, tell me and the other members of the forum, why they believe this administrations policies of invasion and occupation of a soverign country (namely Iraq) and the consequential murder of innocent civilians and death of our young men and women, is in the best interest of our country. Please enlighten me with the reason we are there. Please justify to the best of your ability, 300 billion dollars, 1829 dead americans and 26,000 dead Iraq civilians.
August 11th, 2005 at 4:19 pmIt’s funny to see the slandering responses of Liberal, Proressive(sic)&Lethal and the uneducated responses of the rest of the kool-aid drinking liberals here. Talk about stereotyping of the right. We’re all apparently rednecks who’ve never once fought in a war or earned an honest living. Or we’re wingnuts who suck at Bush’s teat. Oh, and when you use opinions as fact, you belittle your own points and cast doubt on your own ability to do legitimate research. As such, your uninformed opinions are subject to be countered by simple logic and real studies.
Now, on to the topic at hand. I have served in Iraq. I’m still in the military. I don’t agree with a lot of the administration’s work (failure to secure borders, No Child Left Behind, pork barrel spending on the energy bill, et al). But to hoist Cindy Sheehan up as a force to rally behind is ludicrous. The woman was quoted as specifically saying she thought Bush was genuine and that she supported the President.
Forgive if I just don’t see the point of using someone with this lack of integrity as a role model. If you wanted to use someone who is a Democrat as a role model, use Bill Bradley. Use Zell Miller. Hell, you can even use Bill Clinton. As much as I didn’t like him as President, at least he was consistent and actually believed what he said. He didn’t change his story at will.
Point is, if you are going to rally behind a leader, pick someone who really believes in their statements and isn’t some political hack or story-changing money-grubber. Someone on here said if you hadn’t lost someone or hadn’t put your ass where your mouth was, that you couldn’t comment. I’d like to ask if that person has lost someone or been to Iraq. I’ve done both. A close friend of mine was killed 3 months ago in an attack. I was in Iraq in 2003.
Now, any and all attacks that are personal will be ignored. Well-reasoned, intelligent political debate will be entertained. I like to hear other opinions, but not if it’s just mud-slinging rehashed tripe.
August 11th, 2005 at 4:23 pmTo Dave:
100 words or less – it was called 9/11.. 3,000 Americans died and Saddam Hussein had his hands in the whole thing.
August 11th, 2005 at 4:32 pmjust in the from Drudge:
FAMILY OF FALLEN SOLDIER PLEADS: PLEASE STOP, CINDY!
Thu Aug 11 2005 12:56:21 ET
The family of American soldier Casey Sheehan, who was killed in Iraq on April 4, 2004, has broken its silence and spoken out against his mother Cindy Sheehan’s anti-war vigil against George Bush held outside the president’s Crawford, Texas ranch.
The following email was received by the DRUDGE REPORT from Casey’s aunt and godmother:
Our family has been so distressed by the recent activities of Cindy we are breaking our silence and we have collectively written a statement for release. Feel free to distribute it as you wish. Thanks Ã? Cherie
In response to questions regarding the Cindy Sheehan/Crawford Texas issue: Sheehan Family Statement:
The Sheehan Family lost our beloved Casey in the Iraq War and we have been silently, respectfully grieving. We do not agree with the political motivations and publicity tactics of Cindy Sheehan. She now appears to be promoting her own personal agenda and notoriety at the the expense of her son’s good name and reputation. The rest of the Sheehan Family supports the troops, our country, and our President, silently, with prayer and respect.
Sincerely,
Casey Sheehan’s grandparents, aunts, uncles and numerous cousins.
Developing…
August 11th, 2005 at 4:34 pmComment by Libertarian  August 11, 2005 @ 4:23 pm
Great Stuff!! Let’s go. Just a quick question. I assume the reason you went to Iraq to serve in the military was primarily motivated by your belief in what your commander in chief had stated. The “sale” of the “War in Iraq” was based on the belief that Iraq and Saddam were a threat. Right?
So off you go. But, then (as many of us knew at the time) because we were not watching Fox and Cnn, it was discovered that none of the orginal premise for blowing the crap out of Iraq was true. Not one single thing.
When you found that out (presumably when you were hanging on to an AK) how’d that make you feel?
Did you ask yourself, hmmm…What the heck are we doing here?
August 11th, 2005 at 4:34 pmThank you, Khan – far more eloquent than I!!! To #67 – since when have progressives cared about military moms? A number of “big minds” on this site have trashed the military for “contributing to the problem”. The only great military mom to a “progressive” is a military mom with a dead son or daughter – they’re easier to exploit that way.
August 11th, 2005 at 4:35 pmchaim, jon and caseyatbat are all insane.
they (sometimes) use calm sounding words to try and defend their indefensible points, but always betray their hand with weird stuff, like this:
In war, every soldier’s death is a tragedy. That does not devalue the soldier’s life, nor does it devalue the soldier’s mission. It does not discredit the U.S. military action in Iraq, nor does it discredit President Bush as our Commander in Chief.
Actually, every soldier’s death in Iraq discredits the mission. They didn’t choose to go there, they were put there based on lies spewed by evil men. Every death there is a sad, depressing waste. Yes, even every Iraqi death, which no one on the right gives a damn about.
I don’t understand how knowing the truth about the war, and saying something about it, ‘discredits’ anything that the poor pawns-who-are-soldiers did. They did their jobs. George Bush is directly responsible for lying and sending them there, therefore he is directly responsible for every death that happens over there.
Let’s not focus on the soldiers. They would be in the armed forces regardless of any ‘war’. Let’s focus on the bastards that sent them there!
Cindy Sheehan kicks ass. It’s been a year since her son died – the ‘grieving’ stage is over. Now she is just pissed, because she, and the majority of America, can see all the bullshit and lies.
August 11th, 2005 at 4:38 pmthe 9/11 comission proved there was no connection between 9/11 and saddam Hussien.
Libertarian,
in my opinion and many others, backed up by such things as the downing street memo, un and us weapons inspectors, the bush administration connected to unconnected things (9/11 and iraq) to justify the a war in Iraq. That war has not significantly helped the overall war on terrorism, attacks in spain and london, changed opinion of the west in the muslim world, or strengthened the US in any way.
Not only has bush changed his justification for the war numerous times, he continues to push lies ( ie connecting saddam to 9/11) to the american public.
I like many others think that we are going about fighting people like bin laden in the wrong manner.
we have also left ourselves weaker here. consider the minutemen patrolling our borders.
meantime back at the ranch, the economy is only slowly recovering, with many of the new jobs not paying as well as previous jobs, our deficit is at epic proportions with no end in sight, and oil prices are skyrocketing.
that is part of why I don’t like our current admministration.
August 11th, 2005 at 4:38 pmTo Dave:
100 words or less – it was called 9/11.. 3,000 Americans died and Saddam Hussein had his hands in the whole thing.
Comment by alwayscowgirl  August 11, 2005 @ 4:32 pm
Catch up kiddo. 17 of the 19 hijackers were Saudi. Even the post 9/11 chatter and inteligence proved that there was no link that existed between Saddam and Bin Laden or Saddam and 9/11.
We’ve killed 9 times as many Iraqi civilians as the Saudi hijackers killed Americans. Even if there was a link, when is enough, enough?
If you are an Old Testament fan, I belive the saying is “an eye for an eye”.
Guess we showed them only we showed the wrong “them”.
August 11th, 2005 at 4:40 pmby they way, alwayscowgirl, 100 words or less – it was called 9/11.. 3,000 Americans died and Saddam Hussein had his hands in the whole thing.
YOU ARE A MORON! I can’t believe I am actually seeing this. The Pentagon, the Whitehouse, and the 911 Commision ALL said that there is ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE that Saddam had anything to do with 9-11!
Take your ignorance and leave, please.
By the way, the bullshit needs to go out your ass, not into your own head.
August 11th, 2005 at 4:43 pmZell Miller??? What are smoking. Are you impling that Cindy is a political hack? Perhaps she did change here position on Bush. I believe that was after her son’s life was lost, I would imagine a lot of things and opinions in her life changed after that point.
Jarhead, you’re missing the point. This is not a rally behind someone that has been chosen for a cause. Many admire her courage to stand-up to Bush with dissent. May would argue that takes as much courage as it takes those who went and served.
August 11th, 2005 at 4:45 pmThis website in no way “scares” conservatives.
August 11th, 2005 at 4:46 pmIt just ceases to amaze us that people can turn away from facts & use fiction to rile themselves into a hating frenzy.
Geez, Dave, we could fill a book on all of the reasons TO go to Iraq.
Have liberals paid any attention to all of the good that has happened over in Iraq?
The new schools & hospitals that are now open?
Have you all heard of the REAL democratic election, rather than the farce in Iran?
So my question to you is, at what point would you decide it WAS a good reason to go to Iraq?
My quess is that if we are talking about a conservative President, your answer is never, whatever that cost in lives may be. If we are talking about a liberal President, we would not be having this discussion.
Psst, while any civilians loss is sad, the 26,000 number being thrown around is not an actual number, so you guys should stop using it.
Typical of the moon-bat left! You truncate (or is that “Dowdify?”) her comments, in order to make it appear she meant something other than what she PLAINLY meant. Really, why can’t you just engage in an HONEST debate, instead of pulling this BS?
August 11th, 2005 at 4:46 pm—”We’re all apparently rednecks who’ve never once fought in a war or earned an honest living.”–
Well, you DID just describe much of the administration perfectly.
And BTW, when will Fox learn that “America” and “The Bush Administration” are NOT the same entity?
August 11th, 2005 at 4:47 pmComment by Alexa  August 11, 2005 @ 4:35 pm
I’d be careful with comments like yours. You might find that there are a number of “military mom’s” with son’s and daughter’s still breathing, on their way to Crawford, ready to be exploited.
August 11th, 2005 at 4:47 pmBaseball, Hot Dogs, Apple Pie and Splitting Families
You can only go down from this point wingnuts.
August 11th, 2005 at 4:48 pmoh yeah, and while I am speaking the truth to IDIOTS, alwayscowgirl, Cindy Sheehan’s arguments are not made any weaker just because her family doesn’t agree with her, if the drudge article you reference is true.
what, she’s not allowed to excercise her constitutional right, just because someone disagrees with her? lemme guess – she’s unamerican, right?
I stopped reading drudge years ago, because it is ALWAYS wrong and can’t be used as a credible source for anything. Try to use actual news sites when making up your asinine arguments.
August 11th, 2005 at 4:49 pmIf there is any criticism to make of mothers who have lost children in Bush’s war, it is that they have remained silent for too long.
Cindy Sheehan and the Gold Star Families for Peace are changing that. They are putting their grief and rage to constructive use by focusing it on the source of their tragedy: the Bush regime.
It’s too bad that US political discourse has been so corrupted by the ravings of people like Limbaugh, O’Reilly etc that every single issue is turned into a mud fight. Cindy Sheehan and the other Gold Star Families for Peace are speaking truth to power, not slinging mud or scoring points. Decent Americans of all political stripes understand that.
When Bush meets Cindy Sheehan — for he will have to –I hope he will, for once, LISTEN and LEARN, and face the fact that he has brought untold suffering to many of the people he is pledged to serve, and to many others he has no right to attack.
Abraham Lincoln regularly opened his White House office to ordinary Americans and listened humbly as they expressed themselves to their President, risking his life every time. Bush is no Lincoln, but he needs to take responsibility, as Lincoln did, for the suffering he has caused.
August 11th, 2005 at 4:50 pmmost of the right wing website are saying that there
August 11th, 2005 at 4:52 pmnot sure of the validity of the sheehan family email.
Alexa – since when have Progressives chastised, ridiculed, and insulted military moms the way conservatives are now?
August 11th, 2005 at 4:53 pmMom standing over her dead son.
Wing nut: You Mom,you are both an exploiter and being exploited.
Mom never to see her child again.
August 11th, 2005 at 4:55 pmGeez, Dave, we could fill a book on all of the reasons TO go to Iraq.
I’m sure you have. And the fact that those reasons are all bullshit didn’t deter you in the least.
Have liberals paid any attention to all of the good that has happened over in Iraq?
The new schools & hospitals that are now open?
If Hitler had built schools and hospitals in Poland, would that make his occupation of that country okay? Hell no.
The Iraqis want Bush out of their country. Therefore Bush should get out of their country. Everything else is noise.
Have you all heard of the REAL democratic election, rather than the farce in Iran?
You mean for the government that has little or no actual power, with all the important decisions made by the American occupiers? That election?
So my question to you is, at what point would you decide it WAS a good reason to go to Iraq?
When the Iraqi people want us there.
If we are talking about a liberal President, we would not be having this discussion.
I don’t know about anyone else here, but I for one protested Clinton’s invasion of Yugoslavia. Not that he’s a real liberal.
Psst, while any civilians loss is sad, the 26,000 number being thrown around is not an actual number, so you guys should stop using it.
Wow, you’ve expunged that value from the set of integers, have you? But you’re right. From all indications, the total number of Iraqis killed since the invasion and occupation started is more like 100,000.
August 11th, 2005 at 4:56 pmHave liberals paid any attention to all of the good that has happened over in Iraq?
The new schools & hospitals that are now open?
Have you all heard of the REAL democratic election, rather than the farce in Iran?
Comment by Ron  August 11, 2005 @ 4:46 pm
Ooops…I forgot, we were on a humanitarian crusade. Forgive me for not remembering that we were inudated with requests from the Iraqi people to step in and create a democratic environment. And I must have missed their request at the UN or any other recognized international convention for aid to build new hospitals and schools. That would be the ones where the power is only on for 3 hours a day.
And maybe you’re right about the body count. Because we don’t do that. We have to rely on civilians to do that and only the military can provide accurate numbers. It’s probably more but we won’t use that 26,000 number if it hurts. How about 25,999. That’s closer to 25,000.
Jeez, invade and democratize Iraq. Who’s next?? Can we pick a country. Or does it have to be one that we have installed a dictator in and supported militarily and financially for 20 years/
August 11th, 2005 at 4:58 pmDrudge’s source was an anonymous e-mail received from his web site. (To his credit, and to point up the ignorance of right-wingers, he fully cites this on the site.)
I don’t know, call me crazy, but I think any reputatble journalist would have weighed such a source against the listing on the Gold Star Families web site — which lists Sheenan’s family members as supporting the organization and her.
August 11th, 2005 at 5:01 pmHey Libertarian??? Still waiting on your insight on what it felt like to be lied to.
August 11th, 2005 at 5:02 pmThere are no schools or hospiatls that are being built in Iraq. Conditions are worse than ever. Building materials went to building permanent bases for U.S.. troops and to oil infrastructure. We have no independent or free reporting in Iraq so we will never see this on MSM.
If there were schools and hospitals built they would be showing them 24/7 on MSM.
August 11th, 2005 at 5:03 pmI’ll ignore David B and his worthless attacks.
I will respond to the intelligent discourse presented by krazny and dave.
Dave – I was already in the military at the time of both 9/11 and the opening attacks on Iraq. I lost some friends in 9/11 who worked in the WTC. It was a shock to me that some people justified their deaths. I never believed Saddam to be a threat to us. I thought the justification by the administration was wrong, but I nonetheless think we should have gone into Iraq. There had been 19 resolutions that threatened severe actions in response to the continued stone-walling of the Iraqi gov’t. Not one time did the UN act on those threats, hence it became an enforcement policy.
I believe Iraq had WMDs and has hidden and sold them, before we entered the country. I believe our intelligence was wrong and that the administration hyped up questionable evidence. I do not believe they doctored, falsified, or lied to enter the war, but I do think they justified the attack with bad information.
To krazny – Some of the above applies to your comments too. I too think the way we are fighting Bin Laden is incorrect. There need to be serious covert operations to assassinate him. Going into Afghanistan was a right decision, no doubts in my mind. Going into Iraq was a right decision, but not the way we justified it. I also think we need more border protection. I applaud the Minutemen, but it should never have come down to that.
Oil prices really have nothing to do with the war in Iraq or the war on terror, and any attempt to link the two is faulty. Oil is rising because production is lessening while demand increases and processing plants are having serious malfunctions. I will not complain about our prices here, though, as Europeans pay *much* more for gas than we do here. I bought a hybrid. I suggest to anyone conscious of the price of gas to do the same. It’s save me considerable amounts of money.
I haven’t been hurt by the economy. In fact, I was able to buy a house at seriously low mortgage rates, my credit card debt is at an all-time low, and my taxes are low enough that I am contributing a lot more to the economy, and to charity.
The deficit is rising, but not in some disproportianate rate. It rose much faster in the 80s with the cold war. I think the way to cut the deficit is to reduce spending and cut gov’t programs. Quit with the pork barrel legislation added to legitimate bills. Stop financing stupid programs like the National Endowment for the Arts, and cut back on wasteful spending and kickbacks.
I find the administration to be more wasteful of money than 1980s democrats, and that’s why I have left the Republican party and reregistered as a Libertarian.
August 11th, 2005 at 5:04 pm“There are no schools or hospiatls that are being built in Iraq. Conditions are worse than ever. Building materials went to building permanent bases for U.S.. troops and to oil infrastructure. We have no independent or free reporting in Iraq so we will never see this on MSM.
If there were schools and hospitals built they would be showing them 24/7 on MSM.
Comment by Liby  August 11, 2005 @ 5:03 pm”
Of note, this is not true. My friends in Iraq just finished building a school and installing running water and electricity. They patched a hole in a hospital wall yesterday.
August 11th, 2005 at 5:07 pmlibertarian, huh?
that’s what republicans call themselves who can’t fully support the torture and warmongering brought to the party by the neocons.
what a convenient cop out.
thank you for serving in the armed forces. really, there are very few people who would do such a thing, and I applaud your charity.
however, you managed to write a whole lot without making a point. the resolutions against iraq were what justified the war? what about the 25+ resolutions against israel? specious argument.
also, I am glad that you believe Iraq had those wmd’s that no one has ever found, and that everyone knew weren’t there. it must make you sleep better. Did you also believe in the yellowcake lies?
I can tell you are just trying to make up for supporting these warmongering warcriminals, but you probably can’t because you invested so many years in the armed forces, which would kind of make you feel like a chump, since so many of your comrades have died for no reason. or for the many shifting reasons offered by the mis-adminstration.
once again, thanks for the sacrifice. I hope you don’t feel like you were used.
August 11th, 2005 at 5:12 pmLibertarian,
August 11th, 2005 at 5:15 pmNot what I hear. Your account is the exception, if true.Do the people you know work for a private charity?
Lib,
we agree on a handful of things, but there are many items that we perceive as being different. You are correct that the UN had several resolutions, but shouldn’t the UN have enforced those?
I personally don’t beleive that bush has done very well as a steward of this country. I did not agree with his father, but I respect him for making some tough decisions, and more often then not doing the right thing.
I have a friend who got back form iraq a few months ago and is looking at being over there again in another year. I hope your friends make it back safely.
god bless and good luck.
August 11th, 2005 at 5:17 pmYou’ll never hear any Democrat on the hill (except maybe Barbara Boxer) speak out like this. With conviction, passion, and truth.
August 11th, 2005 at 5:28 pm“Have you all heard of the REAL democratic election, rather than the farce in Iran?”
You mean for the government that has little or no actual power, with all the important decisions made by the American occupiers? That election?
Seems to me the American occupiers aren’t able to make any decisions outside their own troop movements. Most of the country is outside their control. Have you met the new mayor of Baghdad?
August 11th, 2005 at 5:29 pmLibertarians. They occasionally get elected to Dog Catcher. The rest run as stealth candidates in the GOP. At least you aren’t a constitution party wingnut. Does Ron Paul know you support the Iraqi invasion? He don’t. Most libertarians don’t.
August 11th, 2005 at 5:31 pmThe real picture in Iraq is not that rosy.
August 11th, 2005 at 5:32 pmLibertarian Philosophy (snicker)
Philosophy
In the beginning, man dwelt in a state of Nature, until the serpent Government tempted man into Initial Coercion.
Government is the Great Satan. All Evil comes from Government, and all Good from the Market, according to the Ayatollah Rand.
We must worship the Horatio Alger fantasy that the meritorious few will just happen to have the lucky breaks that make them rich. Libertarians happen to be the meritorious few by ideological correctness. The rest can go hang.
Government cannot own things because only individuals can own things. Except for corporations, partnerships, joint ownership, marriage, and anything else we except but government.
Parrot these arguments, and you too will be a singular, creative, reasoning individualist.
Parents cannot choose a government for their children any more than they can choose language, residence, school, or religion.
Taxation is theft because we have a right to squat in the US and benefit from defense, infrastructure, police, courts, etc. without obligation.
Magic incantations can overturn society and bring about libertopia. Sovereign citizenry! The 16th Amendment is invalid! States rights!
Objectivist/Neo-Tech Advantage #69i : The true measure of fully integrated honesty is whether the sucker has opened his wallet. Thus sayeth the Profit Wallace. Zonpower Rules Nerdspace!
The great Zen riddle of libertarianism: minimal government is necessary and unnecessary. The answer is only to be found by individuals.
August 11th, 2005 at 5:34 pmI got more, can you handle it?
August 11th, 2005 at 5:36 pmGovernment
Libertarians invented outrage over government waste, bureaucracy, injustice, etc. Nobody else thinks they are bad, knows they exist, or works to stop them.
Enlightenment comes only through repetition of the sacred mantra “Government does not work” according to Guru Browne.
Only government is force, no matter how many Indians were killed by settlers to acquire their property, no matter how many blacks were enslaved and sold by private companies, no matter how many heads of union members are broken by private police.
Money that government touches spontaneously combusts, destroying the economy. Money retained by individuals grows the economy, even if literally burnt.
Private education works, public education doesn’t. The publicly educated masses that have grown the modern economies of the past 150 years are an illusion.
Market failures, trusts, and oligopolies are lies spread by the evil economists serving the government as described in the “Protocols of the Elders of Statism”.
Central planning cannot work. Which is why all businesses internally are run like little markets, with no centralized leadership.
Paternalism is the worst thing that can be inflicted upon people, as everyone knows that fathers are the most hated and reviled figures in the world.
Government is like fire, a dangerous servant and a fearsome master. Therefore, we should avoid it entirely, as we do all forms of combustion.
August 11th, 2005 at 5:38 pmRegulation
The FDA is solely responsible for any death or sickness where it might have prevented treatment by the latest unproven fad.
Children, criminals, death cultists, and you all have the same inalienable right to own any weaponry: conventional, chemical, biological, or nuclear.
All food, drugs, and medical treatments should be entirely unregulated: every industry should be able to kill 300,000 per year in the US like the tobacco industry.
If you don’t have a gun, you are not a libertarian. If you do have a gun, why don’t you have even more powerful armament?
Better to abolish all regulations, consider everything as property, and solve all controversy by civil lawsuit over damages. The US doesn’t have enough lawyers, and people who can’t afford to invest many thousands of dollars in lawsuits should shut up.
August 11th, 2005 at 5:40 pmLiberal, Proressive&Lethal
you rock
I Raq and Roll
(quote from clint black, the ‘artist’ chosen for the Pentagon’s America Supports Death Walk)
August 11th, 2005 at 5:41 pmLibertarianism in the U.S. = McPolitics
One of the most attractive features of libertarianism is that it is basically a very simple ideology. Maybe even simpler than Marxism, since you don’t have to learn foreign words like “proletariat”.
This brief outline will give you most of the tools you need to hit the ground running as a freshly indoctrinated libertarian ideologue. Go forth and proselytize!
Shall I continue? There’s more fun stuff!
August 11th, 2005 at 5:42 pmThere’s one more after this, the debate strategy. I don’t take credit for this. I will provide the link at the end.
Libertarian Party
The Libertarian Party is well on its way to dominating the political landscape, judging from its power base of 100+ elected dogcatchers and other important officials after 25 years of effort.
The “Party of Oxymoron”: “Individualists unite!”
Flip answers are more powerful than the best reasoned arguments, which is why so many libertarians are in important government positions.
It’s time the new pro-freedom libertarian platform was implemented; child labor, orphanages, sweatshops, poorhouses, company towns, monopolies, trusts, cartels, blacklists, private goons, slumlords, etc.
Libertarianism “rules” Internet political debate the same way US Communism “ruled” pamphleteering.
No compromise from the “Party of Principle”. Justice, happiness, liberty, guns, and other good stuff come only from rigidly adhering to inflexible dogmas.
Minimal government is whatever we say it is, and we don’t agree.
Government is “moving steadily in a libertarian direction” with every change libertarians approve of; no matter if it takes one step forward and two steps backwards.
Yes, the symbol of the Libertarian Party is a Big Government Statue. It’s not supposed to be funny or ironic!
August 11th, 2005 at 5:44 pmI happen to have libertarian leanings myself. There are many flavors of libertarianism. I am not an anarcho-capitalist, the most common flavor of libertarianism in the U.S. More of an anarcho-syndicalist. I am a social libertarian, left leaning.
Political Debate Strategy
Count only the benefits of libertarianism, count only the costs of government.
Five of a factoid beats a full argument.
All historical examples are tainted by statism, except when they favor libertarian claims.
Spiritually baptize the deceased as libertarians because they cannot protest the anachronism: Locke, Smith, Paine, Jefferson, Spooner, etc.
The most heavily armed libertarian has the biggest dick and thus the best argument.
The best multi-party democratic republics should be equated to the worst dictatorships for the purposes of denouncing statism. It’s only a matter of degree.
Inviolate private property is the only true measure of freedom. Those without property have the freedom to try to acquire it. If they can’t, let them find somebody else’s property to complain on.
Private ownership is the cure for all problems, despite the historical record of privately owned states such as Nazi Germany, Czarist and Stalinist Russia, and Maoist China.
Require perfection as the only applicable standard to judge government: libertarianism, being imaginary, cannot be fairly judged to have flaws.
Only libertarian economists’ Nobel Prizes count: the other economists and Nobel Prize Committee are mistaken.
Any exceptional case of private production proves that government ought not to be involved.
http://world.std.com/~mhuben/onelesson.html
August 11th, 2005 at 5:48 pmFor the more serious…
Criticisms of Neoliberalism, Capitalism, and Free Markets.
http://world.std.com/~mhuben/critcfm.html
August 11th, 2005 at 5:53 pmWhat I notice that differentiates liberal versus conservative dialogue is the absolute vitriol, the ad hominem attacks and the vituperations spewing from liberals. Do you understand that most Americans can’t, or won’t, take you seriously while you rail on in your fashion? People neither respect nor have much use for adults who carry on like crybabies. It may feel therapeutic, but it does no good. Is your function to hold your breath until you turn blue, or is it to persuade the unbelievers? If it is the former, you are succeeding spectacularly. If it is the latter, well…
August 11th, 2005 at 6:00 pmGee, I haven’t seen any vitriol or ad hominem attacks coming from the right. Have you?
I did, however, notice GW Bush railing against liberals, calling his opponent childish names like “flip-flopper” and insulting whole states as being out of touch. Kerry, on the other hand, talked about issues and offered honest criticism of Bush’s policies, and never once insulted Bush’s supporters.
August 11th, 2005 at 6:22 pmLiberatarian,
August 11th, 2005 at 6:36 pmMeans you can’t choose a side so waste your vote. Dude, if you’re still in the service, enjoy your next deployment, Iran. Watchout for the earthquakes.
“The redneck spin coming from the right is more and more desperate. You might even say they are in their ‘last throes’” -gay..something
We’re the ones who are desperate? Need I remind you that the Democrats are the one’s who are trying to redefine their party, pick up seats in the senate and house though they continue to lose them, haven’t seen a president in the white house and have offered up two duds in an attempt, and are now losing their only foothold in the SC?
BTW- That military mom’s minority call that I made comes from being a military member and knowing military families first hand. By knowing literally thousands of troops and their families I can be pretty sure that statement is firm.
Also,anyone who claims that Bill O’Reilly is a Republican has no sense of political savvy.
August 11th, 2005 at 6:50 pm“Apparently there are a number of “wingnutsâ€? on this blog and I would be honored if they could, in 100 words of less, tell me and the other members of the forum, why they believe this administrations policies of invasion and occupation of a soverign country (namely Iraq) and the consequential murder of innocent civilians and death of our young men and women, is in the best interest of our country. Please enlighten me with the reason we are there. Please justify to the best of your ability, 300 billion dollars, 1829 dead americans and 26,000 dead Iraq civilians”
Ignoring the fact that hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians were being murdered by Saddam’s regime we can take into account that our allies were being attacked (Israel), an assassination attempt was made on one of our ex-presidents, and threats were made directly at the U.S. by Iraq. Let us not mention that WMD’s were not only owned, but used by Saddam via “Chemical Ali”. Waiting around for those to reach us would have been unreasonable and irresponsible. I could and perhaps will need to go on.
August 11th, 2005 at 6:55 pmAlso, Gold Star Families for Peace does not have a large membership at all, which was misstated by gaymafioso. You can follow the following link to see their membership. http://www.gsfp.org/
August 11th, 2005 at 6:58 pm“Actually, every soldier’s death in Iraq discredits the mission. They didn’t choose to go there, they were put there based on lies spewed by evil men. Every death there is a sad, depressing waste. Yes, even every Iraqi death, which no one on the right gives a damn about.”
-Prozacula
Being part of the military I know what it’s like to find out that one of my buddies died in the war. For you to try and speak for any of them is insulting. If you think we enjoy losing pieces of our military family then you’re too focused on a lost cause. The men that I know in Iraq or who have served in Iraq, including a couple who have lost their lives, were all proud and many VOLUNTEERED to go on the deployment. All who go to Iraq volunteered to be in the military…and the military fights in wars, it doesn’t only pay for your school.
The number of people that I know in the military who agree with your side of this issue vs mine I can count on my hand. The number of men and women I know who are proud to be in the armed forces and who are ready to pick up their gear and do their duty are too large to count. Quit with the ignorance.
August 11th, 2005 at 7:05 pm“I stopped reading drudge years ago, because it is ALWAYS wrong and can’t be used as a credible source for anything. Try to use actual news sites when making up your asinine arguments.”
Are you implying that the email was a fake or that the Drudge is lying? And how is the Drudge not a real news site? It’s more of a gathering of links to other news sites than it is a reporting site itself.
August 11th, 2005 at 7:12 pmDavid B,
“Means you can’t choose a side so waste your vote. Dude, if you’re still in the service, enjoy your next deployment, Iran. Watchout for the earthquakes.”
And you enjoy your freedom to express yourself under the Constitutional rights that we defend willingly.
August 11th, 2005 at 7:17 pmWell, I’ll admit ya gotta give Shrub kudos for consistency, at least when he’s dealing with the mothers of dead U.S. soldiers…
CINDY SHEEHAN ON HER PRIOR MEETING WITH SHRUB
“He wouldn’t look at the pictures of [my son] Casey. He didn’t even know Casey’s name. He came in the room and the very first thing he said is, ‘So who are we honoring here?’ He didn’t even know Casey’s name. He didn’t want to hear it. He didn’t want to hear anything about Casey. He wouldn’t even call him ‘him’ or ‘he.’ He called him ‘your loved one.’ Every time we tried to talk about Casey and how much we missed him, he would change the subject. AND HE ACTED LIKE IT WAS A PARTY.”
DOLORES KESTERSON’S MEETING, AS DESCRIBED ON BILL O’REILLY’S SHOW
“Well, yes, he (Bush) asked if he could hug me and I said, ‘Well, that’s a human thing, you know, I’m human.’ And I agreed to it. But my personal feeling is that he really doesn’t have a conscience about all this death and destruction. That was the essence I took away after looking him in the eyes and meeting with him  THERE’S JUST NO CONSCIENCE THERE.”
As an aside, media pundits say this was a VERY embarrassing segment for O’Reilly. He brought Kesterson on the show believing she was to provide a counter-argument against Cindy Sheehan. Instead, she says, “…after looking (Bush) in the eyes and meeting with him  there’s just no conscience there.” Poor little Billy, red-faced and bitch-slapped on his own show, and not a damn thing he can do about it.
August 11th, 2005 at 7:49 pmWhat I notice that differentiates liberal versus conservative dialogue is the absolute vitriol, the ad hominem attacks and the vituperations spewing from liberals.
We hate your guts. What’s the problem? Did you think people were gonna love you for being an asshole?
August 11th, 2005 at 8:07 pmI mean just because your poor mother did and your wife or girlfriend has low self-esteem… the rest of us think you amount to a small pile of shit..
August 11th, 2005 at 8:08 pmAre you implying that the email was a fake or that the Drudge is lying? And how is the Drudge not a real news site? It’s more of a gathering of links to other news sites than it is a reporting site itself.
Comment by Jon  August 11, 2005 @ 7:12 pm
Now you are being an idiot as well as an asshole.
August 11th, 2005 at 8:08 pmJon,
August 11th, 2005 at 8:11 pmI do enjoy my freedom, personally, I didn’t feel the treat from Saddam like the chicken little conservatives. My freedom also means that I have to put up with trolls like you that visit this progressive site so you can defend your dogma. I have yet to see one Iraqi come before the camera stating a burning desire for democracy. The falisy of the NeoCon plan is that assume that our government choice is good for everyone, so we cram it down their throats while they have no understanding of democracy or freedom. Since they have been in the 10th century for so long, they don’t see that we have an agenda of oil control and a permanent base.
The usual googly-eyed slobbering from left-wing drones.
Cindy Sheehan is a pitiable character, being used as she is by liberal vultures.
Her opinion is not the issue: she may well have felt comforted and reassured after her first visit with Bush, but felt differently looking back. Her “flip-flop” is therefore not relevant to the story.
However, that she is now standing like a fool in front of Bush’s ranch, calling him a liar and killer (and wondering why she’s not getting another meeting with him! F**king stupid liberals), while her new “friends” egg her on…that’s just pathetic.
I really pity her. I think she’s just a not-very-bright woman, rendered even more nebulous after the loss of her son, being used by cowardly liberals who, as usual, have no rational arguments and must rely on the tears of a grieving mother to get more money to fund their hate.
August 11th, 2005 at 8:13 pmDavid B,
Of course you haven’t seen any Iraqis standing in front of the camera demanding democracy. No network you’re likely to pay attention to would even consider running it. And if they did, you’d pretend you hadn’t seen it.
August 11th, 2005 at 8:16 pmDarrell
u r sofa king we todd did!
August 11th, 2005 at 8:16 pmNow if you were in a relationship with any of these fvckwad righties, you would long ago have made a clean break with them and filed for a TRO ordering absolutely no contact. There is no point in being in any type of relationship with an abusive sociopath and no contact whatsoever is the only course. There is no reasoning with them. They just want you back because they can’t stand being rejected and they are narcissistic manipulators. My respect and admiration for those of you who try patiently to reason with them. It’s just not my way. I’d say shoot them. But since they aren’t within range, they get to live another day to annoy the rest of you.
August 11th, 2005 at 8:17 pmOh Darrell,
How fat are you?
How bad is your acne?
How small is your manhood?
That you have to denigrate a grieving mother to attack libruls?
Don’t look now, but your insecurity is showing like a pee stain on your bed sheets.
August 11th, 2005 at 8:18 pmYou guys hold their hands. I want to break them down until they are putty in your hands, I wouldn’t want to touch them myself.
August 11th, 2005 at 8:19 pmHey Darrell,
Funny, we see plenty of Iraqis on television. Usually lamenting their dead.
Yes, don’t bother us with your tales of media manipulation.
What we have brought to Iraq is nothing less than horror. Whatever excuse the Bush League comes up with this week for their war it still comes down to the fact that it is going horribly wrong.
Even the right wing Telegraph of London admits as much.
We don’t expect you to do so, however. It would mean you are not a nazi. We know you are.
August 11th, 2005 at 8:23 pmMore liberal lies, liberal slants. What about Air America stealing money from poor children?
OH wait, that’s right.
August 11th, 2005 at 8:28 pmThanks, Dave, I’ll be careful. I think I might have stumbled upon the progressives response to Third World Wing Nuts who HATE liberals and conservatives – “just hide under the blanket and maybe they’ll go away” -or-”remember, if we can’t see them, they can’t see us”. HA! I did have an interesting exchange with a gentleman (I don’t use that description lightly – he was a sensitive, New Age type- complete with soft hands!) I noticed his “DRAFT REPUBLICANS” bumper sticker when I stopped to do my grocery shopping yesterday – imagine how flattered I was to come out of the market and find him waiting for me – all to berate me for MY bumper sticker. Mine read “FRENCH TERROR ALERT LEVELS: RUN, HIDE, SURRENDER, COLLABORATE”. How noblesse!!
August 11th, 2005 at 8:29 pmTO Dave:
Your comment below is that of one of great significant intelligence and very Moore-Like: – HOw proud you must be – I am sure you are a product of the public school systems. I am sure proud and thankful that my parents sent me to private schools. Class is something that you obviously missed on a regular basis, beside critical and logic thinking. My prayers are with you.
“YOU ARE A MORON! I can’t believe I am actually seeing this. The Pentagon, the Whitehouse, and the 911 Commision ALL said that there is ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE that Saddam had anything to do with 9-11!
Take your ignorance and leave, please.
By the way, the bullshit needs to go out your ass, not into your own head. ”
So this is what I even love more about liberals. You claim that the WhiteHouse, The Pentagon and the 9/11 Commission etc SAID THAT THERE WAS NO CONNECTION between Saddam Hussein and 9/11 – So you believe these people that Saddam had no connection to 9/11, yet you liberals also say that these same people lied to the public about WMD etc.? How stupid are you? You look like a fool. How do you know that the Pentagon, The WHiteHouse and the 9/11 Commission aren’t lying now – or is the only time that someone LIES is when you disagree with them – you are extremely gullible.
Let’s see then if you are a liberal I am sure you voted for Billary Clinton and ALGORED. Let’s see Bill Clinton bombed the crap out of an asprin factory in Iraq claiming that the building was producing OH MY GOD WMD… He killed 1,000 innocent civilians and guess what IT WAS AN ASPRIN FACTORY – not a WMD Factory. Let’s see ALGORED setup a commission and this commmission investigated and came to the conclusion that HUSSEIN HAD WMD’s. Let’s see Madeline NOTSOBRIGHT also claimed that HUSSEIN had WMD”s as well as over half the DEMOCRATIC SENATE AND CONGRESS including anti-gun, but gun-toting Liberal Whack Job Senators like Diane Feinstein and Barbara Box ME SO I CAN GET OUT OF MY LIBERAL FUNK. Let’s see Clinton did not get APPROVAL FROM THE UN to bomb the Asprin factory. OH MY GOD!!!! Let’s see, the bombing of the asprin factory came the same day that Billary Clinton’s affair hit the drudge report. WAG THE DOG???
By the way it wasn’t just about sex – Clinton was being sued by Paula JOnes for Sexual Harrassment – a law that was supported by over 90% of the Democrats in the Senate and Congress. He was going to be deposed as well as people like Monica Lewisky who he had cigar sex with – He knew is but was in big trouble so he needed to get the women who he had sexual harraseed and raped in the past to lie so that he would not be found guilty of sexual harrassment. Most LIberals don’t know that part of the story they only know the sex part since more liberals i.e. Kennedy have sexual harrased or killed women that any conservative has ever, and most of the time they get away with it, i.e. Ted Kennedy.
Now isn’t it suprising that all of the above-mentioned liberals are now whining and crying about the war and how Bush lied – well obviously they lied too!!!
Most liberals are jealous because the Republicans can win wars – all the liberals can do is start them, Kennedy, JOhnson and the Republicans have to finish them – Nixon, Reagan.
Saddam Hussein had his hands big time in 9/11. Let’s try to move our IQ up a notch above Forrest Gumps Davey BOy…. Saddam Hussein hated the US for invading them with UN Approval in 1991 – Osma Bin Laden hated the US. Just because the hijackers were from Saudi Arabia had nothing to with it – get a clue here and try to strain your brain a little bit…. Think of the Mafia – they all hate one another, will kill one another but will work with one another if each has to gain from it. All the main AL Qaeda guys have all been sheltered at one time or another in IRAQ. LIke Hussein is a low-life and birds of feather flock together. I know this is far beyond any logical thinking you can do, but maybe, maybe The WhiteHouse, Pentagon and 9/11 Commission is just lying to you again about Hussein – maybe they are like me – sick and tired of trying to explain things to liberals who no matter what you tell them and how much evidence you give them it just will not sink in….
August 11th, 2005 at 8:30 pmMan, that was udderly boring always a cow. Go chew on your propaganda cud and cough it up somewhere else.
August 11th, 2005 at 8:48 pmHey Davey:
You might want to read the following articles – looks like your beloved, almighty 9/11 commision left out some important information – OH MY GOD they lied – I am sure that Karl Rove made them do it…
According to the New York Times, the 9/11 Commission officials said that Able Danger had not been included in their report because some of the information sounded inconsistent with what they thought they knew about Atta.
In other words, the Commission staffers were told about the project but ignored it because it didn’t fit their pre-conceived conclusions.
Fortunately, the Commission has now ‘fessed up. But not before trying to avoid blame earlier this week. Lee Hamilton, one of the Commission’s co-chairs, said:
The Sept. 11 commission did not learn of any U.S. government knowledge prior to 9/11 of surveillance of Mohammed Atta or of his cell,” said Hamilton, a former Democratic congressman from Indiana. “Had we learned of it obviously it would’ve been a major focus of our investigation.”
Read the whole thing from your beloved NYT Below:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/11/politics/11intel.html
Also looks like Gorelick one of the ten commissioners on the 9/11 had a conflict of interest…OH MY GOD – Karl Rove did it not Gorelick…
http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2003/08/ms_gorelick_and_1.html
http://pla.blogspot.com/2003_08_03_pla_archive.html#106031555815041582
Hey Davey – Looks like your 9/11 commission is fraud!!!
LOL Love Cowgirl….
August 11th, 2005 at 8:56 pmHow hollow the words of the coward ring in the ears of one who has served. – Me.
I’m here to tell all the Chickenhawks – Get your ass to the recruiters right now! Stop all your bullshit talk. Go walk the walk and then ill listen to your spew. Veterans could give a shit about Dubya.
We love our Country, our Familys, our Brothers in Arms, not some fake cowboy from Kennebunkport, Maine.
August 11th, 2005 at 8:57 pmHey Elise D. Cow..
Love your response..:):) When liberals have no answers or intelligent facts, they just throw insults – You and Howard Dean must be bed fellows…
Love YA
August 11th, 2005 at 8:58 pmCowgirl
is moomooo finished yet? ZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzz z z
August 11th, 2005 at 9:01 pmAlwayscowgirl needs to change her name to boringcow, dontcha think?
Let’s vote.
But let’s really vote. No diebold machines to manipulate to outcome. We have had quite enough of that!
August 11th, 2005 at 9:01 pmAn Illustration of “Thinking Progress”:
“Don’t look now, but your insecurity is showing like a pee stain on your bed sheets.”
“My freedom also means that I have to put up with trolls like you that visit this progressive site so you can defend your dogma.”
“I mean just because your poor mother did and your wife or girlfriend has low self-esteem… the rest of us think you amount to a small pile of shit.. ”
“Oh yeah, chickenshit, then why are you hear posting from a darkly lit room with one hand on your wee wee, instead of fighting Bush’s illegal war?”
“Bush is an oxymoron!
Minus a few letters, yes.”
”
my sign will read ‘My son will not die for bush and his dick’. under dick i will write in small letters ‘cheney’.”
Very clever guys. Continue the progressive thiking!
August 11th, 2005 at 9:05 pmJon,
In what military branch did you server?
August 11th, 2005 at 9:09 pmI must say you all good little sheepliberals – you follow the lead of Howard Dean very well, scream, whine and rant and never say anything with any substance – instead of screaming, whining and ranting why don’t you state some facts against my facts or would that be too hard for all of you :):).
Let’s see let’s try another subject and see what ranting and raving we get…
Liberals can find same-sex marriage, abortion and the right for illegal aliens to vote in the Constitution, but they can’t seem to find the right to bear arms.
For their edification it is the second amendment, the one that guarantees the first amendment and the third through the twenty-seventh.
Let the insults begin… and Oh don’t forget to blame Karl Rove….
Love always
August 11th, 2005 at 9:09 pmCowgirl
GW had Iraq in his sights long before he was in office and he appears to be a person who was never told “no” as a child and has been publicly bailed out of every private sector disaster he has caused. This time it is different; no-one has the money to replace what he has squandered; no human being can raise the dead.
What to do, what to do!
From day one in office his quarry was Iraq, as in “give me Iraq” to his minions. Any reason would do.
“Oops! forgot the aftermath, but I do get to boss people around and play dress up in uniforms, heh, heh, heh”.
9/11? Everything Clinton was thrown out. The information was there but probably not even read because it came from the previous admin. Condi as much as admitted that. I know every admin wants a clean sweep, but that should not include security issues if one has an ounce of brain.
Rebuilding hospitals and schools? Maybe we would not have so much rebuilding to do if hospitals had not been targets of the illegal, secret bombing of Iraq in the months prior to GW even going to the congress – admitted by the British Govt who were complicit in these bombings.
Medical personnel have been killed accidentally and deliberately. No supplies reaching the hospitals that are left functioning. No electricity to run essential medical equipment. This is Christianity?! This is compassionate conservatism?! You can keep it.
The goal was the privatization of Iraq. Do some research and find out how many businesses were contracted to go into Iraq before the war even started. Everyone from oil companies to McDonald’s.
This, of course, includes Halliburton and all were no-bid.
Under the rules of war, a country’s natural resources must be returned to them. Do you really think this outfit is going to let go of Iraqi oil? I don’t. Just another illegal act perpetrated by the neocons.
Absolutely Mrs Sheehan has a right to see the man she is contributing taxes to pay to do his job. She has every right to ask him about his illegal and misguided war, and the true reason for sending her son there to meet his death. GW is supposed to work for the people and Mrs Sheehan is one of the people – like it or not.
GW avoided the VietNam war and now he is too much of a coward to meet one bereaved mother! He is very brave at playing with other people’s lives, but methinks his color is yellow. It’s time for him to be a man instead of a little boy, and face Mrs. Sheehan.
Lest anyone think I am anti-military – I’m not. I’ve lived in a country through a war, my husband served 30 years in the military and did VietNam, and my daughter also served. The military deserve a whole lot more than the neocons are giving them. The whole admin is a disgrace to humanity.
I pity you people who seem to be unable to think for yourselves and just swallow hook, line and sinker everything that is bellowed by the Limbaughs, etc. It’s funny to read because the points made are almost word for word what is said on these shows. Wake up! A lot of the corruption is rising to the surface, but I’ll bet you deny it in spite of indictments, etc. It’s pathetic.
By the way, I just read how GHWB and Cheney went to Saudi Arabia, and how our relationship with this country has never been better. Anyone realize that the “outing” of Valerie Plame shut down her Saudi operations. I’m not real big on coincidences.
It’s Clinton”s fault!:)
August 11th, 2005 at 9:11 pmCowgirl,
you stupid slut!
A “rant” is when someone goes on and on. Like your posts.
You were ranting quite a bit.
I shall be succinct.
Sign up and get your fat ass to Iraq right now. W needs you!
August 11th, 2005 at 9:12 pmNotice they never address directly any argument we make that is based in fact. Why? Because they live in lala land. Facts don’t matter to these troglodytes.
August 11th, 2005 at 9:16 pmDane:
Stupid Slut – wow why didn’t I think of that one – very original. I am impressed.
Whats the matter here – are you suppressing my freedom of speech – or is the only freedom of speech you support your freedom to speak. Remember the first amendment guarantees freedom of speech but it doesn’t from preventing you making an imbecile of yourself.
I would go to Iraq in minute with a couple of nukes – so if you want me to go no problem, but I go with the biggest baddest guns.
Ranting is no facts – that is what you and your deany kiddies are doing – I have posted facts and none of you can refute them. Period. End of Story.
Love Cowgirl
August 11th, 2005 at 9:16 pmMisterB
When any one of you deany kiddies can state fact against my first post then I will address your facts. Not one of you has the IQ, guts or braun to do that. All you can do is throw insults and make complete imbeciles of yourself – maybe that is why Democrats don’t have control of any branch of government with the exception of the courts and Bush will be taking care of that soon enough –
Love ya
August 11th, 2005 at 9:18 pmCowgirl
alwayscowgirl shows here true colors with this remark -
“I would go to Iraq in minute with a couple of nukes – so if you want me to go no problem, but I go with the biggest baddest guns.”
You and your ilk are finished. Your ignorance has made you evil. True Men and Women are repeled by such wanton violence as you prescribe. Nukes?! You are a coward as well as insane.
August 11th, 2005 at 9:20 pmCowgirl
Or are you a post op trannie like the adam-appled-one Man Coulter?
August 11th, 2005 at 9:28 pmalwayscowgirl -
Talk to the hand, you insane bitch.
August 11th, 2005 at 9:31 pmDane:
What school did you graduate from or did you graduate.
All you can do is throw insults – a six year old can do that.
Can’t you try and at least post comments that have some substance. Come on I know you can do it..
Love ya
August 11th, 2005 at 9:32 pmCowgirl
Dane –
There is no point talking to an insane person, Brother.
August 11th, 2005 at 9:33 pmCowgirl
What school did I go to?
Question is, where did you go. The Nazi universities were all closed down once Hitler fell, but you studied ethnic cleansing somewhere.
Annie, get your big guns.
Indeed!
August 11th, 2005 at 9:35 pmMister B;
Insane Bitch – wow – how long did it take you do come up with that original post.
COme on you guys – This is getting too easy.. Come up with some substance and facts. I know you can do it – Let’s see – try reading a history book about something, anything – How about slavery – you liberals love slavery – let’s see Wallace, Bull O’Conner, Al Bore Senior, RObert KKK Byrd, all voted against affirmative action, civil rights, and all of the people holding those hoses spraying water at all those black people were all democrats… let’s see the two candidates who ran against Lincoln (A Republican who FREED THE SLAVES) were democrats and they support slavery.
Let’s talk about democrats and their beloved slavery –
Cowgirl
August 11th, 2005 at 9:35 pmDane –
“If this were a dictatorship, it’d be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I’m the dictator.”
– President G. W. Bush
I love him, he’s my leader. rofl
August 11th, 2005 at 9:37 pmOh Daney Boy:
You are comparing me to Hilter – You don’t know much about Hitler so Let me educate you!!
Hilter – pro abortion, anti-gun, pro-enthusia, anti-Christian, vegetarian, animal rights activists, pro-stem cell research, pro-same-sex marriage (Read the Book, if you can The Pink Nazi’s)
Cowgirl – anti-abortion, pro-gun, anti-enthusia, Christain, meat-eater, animals don’t have rights, against stem cell research, anti-same-sex- marriage
Wow – Hitler was a liberal….
Love ya
Cowgirl
August 11th, 2005 at 9:38 pmHere we go…
“The interests behind the Bush Administration, such as the CFR, The Trilateral Commission – founded by Brzezinski for David Rockefeller – and the Bilderberger Group, have prepared for and are now moving to implement open world dictatorship within the next five years. They are not fighting against terrorists. They are fighting against citizens.”
August 11th, 2005 at 9:40 pm- Dr. Johannes B. Koeppl, Ph.D., former German defense ministry official and advisor to former NATO Secretary General Manfred Werne
Wait a second Daney Boy:
I take the anti-abortion stance back – see there have been over 30 million abortions performed in the past 22 years – since Roe V Wade – you do know what that is right… Over 11 million of those aborted babies would be of the age to vote… Of those 30 million babies, over 85% of them were aborted by women who were of a liberal/democrat leaning. So just think if you democrats hadn’t aborted all those 11 million babies you would have won the last two presidential elections.
HA HA HA
Love ya
Cowgirl
August 11th, 2005 at 9:41 pmHow bout this gem…
“The United States is not nearly so concerned that its acts be kept secret from its intended victims as it is that the American people not know of them.” ?U.S. Attorney General Ramsey Clark
August 11th, 2005 at 9:41 pmMister B;
Wow Nato wasn’t that the organization that allowed completed and senseless genocide in Rawanda – boy I would take their word on just about anything…
Cowgirl
August 11th, 2005 at 9:42 pmThis one is especialy sweet…
“Sarah, if the American people had ever known the truth about what we Bushes have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched.”
August 11th, 2005 at 9:43 pmGeorge Bush Senior speaking in an interview with reporter Sarah McClendon in December 1992
Fact is Dane – we could literaly bury the crazys under documentation and it would make no difference at all.
August 11th, 2005 at 9:46 pmDane – “How fat are you?”
ROFLMAO!!
August 11th, 2005 at 9:51 pmDane:
From Gobbels regarding Hitler:
The Fuhrer is deeply religous, though completely anti-Christian. He views Christianity as a symptom of decay. Rightly so. It is a branch of the Jewish race… Both [Judaism and Christianity] have no point of contact to the animal element, and thus, in the end, they will be destroyed. The Fuhrer is a convinced vegetarian, on principle. His arguments cannot be refuted on any serious basis. They are totally unanswerable.”
You may want to read Mein Kemfp – hiter was anti-Christin – but you have to no only read but understanding – the two go together.
Many of Hilter’s henchman were gay – that is a fact.
Most of the medical research and advances that came about in the western world came from Mengle and his medical experiments on live people.
Hitler was a liberal.
Learn to live with it…
August 11th, 2005 at 9:51 pmHey Cowpaddy?
Dig this…
http://www.macon.com/mld/macon/news/local/12361302.htm
August 11th, 2005 at 9:52 pmYou may want to read Mein Kemfp – hiter was anti-Christin – but you have to no only read but understanding – the two go together.
False
Many of Hilter’s henchman were gay – that is a fact.
False
Most of the medical research and advances that came about in the western world came from Mengle and his medical experiments on live people.
False
I could go on…
Go ride flicka drunk put yerself out of yes misery.
August 11th, 2005 at 9:55 pmlib·er·al ( P ) Pronunciation Key (lbr-l, lbrl)
adj.
Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.
Of, relating to, or characteristic of liberalism.
Liberal Of, designating, or characteristic of a political party founded on or associated with principles of social and political liberalism, especially in Great Britain, Canada, and the United States.
Tending to give freely; generous: a liberal benefactor.
Generous in amount; ample: a liberal serving of potatoes.
Not strict or literal; loose or approximate: a liberal translation.
Of, relating to, or based on the traditional arts and sciences of a college or university curriculum: a liberal education.
Archaic. Permissible or appropriate for a person of free birth; befitting a lady or gentleman.
Obsolete. Morally unrestrained; licentious.
Which definition do you suppose Hitler falls under?
August 11th, 2005 at 9:55 pmGeez! The ignorance is thick in here.
Regarding CLinton library – wasn’t that the library that Clinton had to have a couple of buildings that were built by slaves torn down in order to build it – Yes, the democrats just love slavery…
August 11th, 2005 at 9:57 pmLater
Great you write False after my facts – where are your facts that it is false – any six year old can write false five times.
August 11th, 2005 at 9:58 pmcowgirl
Only the most demented would deny that the one- true- all- the -way- to -the far -end- right-wing of politics was not Hitler.
He was Blanche,he was.
He was as far right as they ever got.
Oh, till little George caught up with him.
Kiss it. Kiss it and make it wet. The truth wants a little smooch from you.
Hitler took the right wing to its conclusion. Who supported Hitler in the US? The right wing. In England? It was the tories and royalty.
That is the sad truth and denying it won’t make it any less true. Using Limbaugh circular arguments won’t make it less true. Quoting books that were written by wingnuts won’t cut it either.
Btw
How fat are you?
August 11th, 2005 at 9:58 pmThe Seven Deadly Sins
Pride is excessive belief in one’s own abilities, that interferes with the individual’s recognition of the grace of God. It has been called the sin from which all others arise. Pride is also known as Vanity.
Envy is the desire for others’ traits, status, abilities, or situation.
Gluttony is an inordinate desire to consume more than that which one requires.
Lust is an inordinate craving for the pleasures of the body.
Anger is manifested in the individual who spurns love and opts instead for fury. It is also known as Wrath.
Greed is the desire for material wealth or gain, ignoring the realm of the spiritual. It is also called Avarice or Covetousness.
Sloth is the avoidance of physical or spiritual work.
The Seven Contrary Virtues:
humility, kindness, abstinence, chastity, patience, liberality, diligence
The Contrary Virtues were derived from the Psychomachia (”Battle for the Soul”), an epic poem written by Prudentius (c. 410). Practicing these virtues is alledged to protect one against temptation toward the Seven Deadly Sins: humility against pride, kindness against envy, abstinence against gluttony, chastity against lust, patience against anger, liberality against greed, and diligence against sloth.
August 11th, 2005 at 9:58 pmBecause they are false? And if you weren’t an ignorant pice of white trailer trash you’d know that.
August 11th, 2005 at 9:59 pmIt has been great – I am a student writing a Political Science thesis for my senior year at Berkeley.
I have posted all this to prove a point in an area of my thesis – liberals have no point they just rant, rave and whine. I have copied all these posting and they will be part of my thesis.
Thanks to all you for proving my thesis – my liberal professor at Berkeley is going to have a cow.
Thanks again for your contributions and helping me to prove a point in my thesis.
Love ya
Taylor
August 11th, 2005 at 10:00 pmCowcow
Sweetie, honey, your upset and your chins are a-wiggling.
You can send you child anywhere. It is called homeschooling.
There are also parochial schools.
Don’t know where you live, but it must be a very scary place.
Or maybe it just exists in your own sweetly alzheimer laced mind.
How old are you anyway?
August 11th, 2005 at 10:00 pmMister B
I am totally serious.
The only woman I every met who was way of the charts right wing demented like our cowgirl was a very fat, very unhappy tubby who weighed in at over 250 lbs. at only 5foot 3.
I figure Ms. Cowgirl must be the same way.
August 11th, 2005 at 10:02 pmSpeaking of Nazis -
Prescott Bush, Dubya’s Grandpa, funded the Nazis during WWII. You like facts? Eat em!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prescott_Bush
August 11th, 2005 at 10:02 pmI have posted all this to prove a point in an area of my thesis
LOL. You have never even been to a junior college, or you’d know how ridiculous that statement is.
August 11th, 2005 at 10:03 pm“I have posted all this to prove a point in an area of my thesis.”
Lets hear how it starts then. mk? thanks for the laughs Moron!
August 11th, 2005 at 10:06 pmCow paddy, undergrads don’t do theses. That’s what you do for a Masters. It’s a dissertation for Ph.D. And for an idiot like you, it’s term paper on some janitorial issue at the tech school.
August 11th, 2005 at 10:06 pmLater
If Ms. Cowface truly is at Berkely we know why she is so unhappy! Everyone must mock her when she quotes the aforementioned, discredited books.
Her teachers must ridicule her.
Her classmates must mock her.
And everyone probably pokes her fat with a stick once in a while.
August 11th, 2005 at 10:07 pmNo wait! Cosmetology!
August 11th, 2005 at 10:07 pmMOOMOO
August 11th, 2005 at 10:07 pmParroting what she heard on wingnut radio .I listen too .It is the same tired arguments word for word, so I would not get so upity like you actually know something. Heard all you say, before,over and over and over.
You remind me of the Jehovas Witnesses that come around and knock on my door. They think they are in the know also, you can not break through their cement drone heads. They are wanabees merely riding on the coattails of ignorant mouthpieces of self righteousness like yourself.
Polly want a cracker?
.. and by the way American soldiers have killed thousand of civilians,tortured, raped, gassed and dumped bodies. Cut it with that tired Hannity retread sputum. Moral superiority is long gone.
Trolls have been here before to spout this same propaganda and may I add, much more skillfully.
She’s not a senior at Berkeley. If she was she’d know that you don’t do a Masters thesis as an undergrad.
August 11th, 2005 at 10:10 pmRight on, Burning Bush!
August 11th, 2005 at 10:10 pmWhy or why do the dumb ass trolls think we should debate them and not ridicule them?
They get their “facts” from rightwing publishers, bloggers, and other sources.
They read only what supports their arguments and then spit them out like chewed up gum.
I only like to mock them till they go home.
TROLL SLAYER!
August 11th, 2005 at 10:10 pm“Cowgirl,
you stupid slut!
A “rant� is when someone goes on and on. Like your posts.
You were ranting quite a bit.
I shall be succinct.
Sign up and get your fat ass to Iraq right now. W needs you!”
Oh, that’s thinking!
August 11th, 2005 at 10:13 pmIt is a well known fact that none of Mengele’s (she couldn’t even spell his name, any senior at Berkeley could) had any scientific value whatsoever. The conection between the Catholic church and the nazis is well documented yadda yadda yadda what a tool she is.
August 11th, 2005 at 10:14 pmI can see her now – a vat of ice cream,- a bucket of Oreos – fuming.
August 11th, 2005 at 10:14 pmNow that moocow is gone, I will tell you guys where I went to school
London School of Economics.
I did my thesis (or was that my dissertation, oh, oh, it was a masters so it was a thesis) on The Swedish Method of International Development Planning. Svenska Metoden.
At the LSE we weren’t allowed to quote books like I guess they can at Berkely!
Ahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
August 11th, 2005 at 10:15 pmJon, are you at Beauty school to?
August 11th, 2005 at 10:16 pmjon
I don’t know Jon, you tell us.
Were u thinking?
Do u ever?
August 11th, 2005 at 10:16 pmComment by the Dane
Braggart!
August 11th, 2005 at 10:17 pmDane – “At the LSE we weren’t allowed to quote books like I guess they can at Berkely!”
Elitist! :)
August 11th, 2005 at 10:17 pmDenmark?
August 11th, 2005 at 10:19 pmPussy Comitightass?
August 11th, 2005 at 10:19 pmlater
I waited till she left, so it isn’t bragging.
I felt like it might scare our beauty school drop out if she knew I was edumacated.
I wanted her to misunderestimate me.
August 11th, 2005 at 10:19 pmCheck out Jon’s site. He has a big revolver, and a little willy clinton.
August 11th, 2005 at 10:20 pmDenmark?
Nej. Danmark!
Jeg ar dansk!
August 11th, 2005 at 10:20 pm“misunderestimated” – what a great pseudonym. It would really annoy the righties.
August 11th, 2005 at 10:22 pmlater
Jon has a website?
The dickens, you say!
August 11th, 2005 at 10:23 pmYes, Posse Comitatus. Click on his name up thread.
August 11th, 2005 at 10:25 pmhttp://possecomitatus.blogspot.com/
August 11th, 2005 at 10:26 pmlater
Must I?
Will it be rewarding?
Or will I need to shower immediately after viewing?
August 11th, 2005 at 10:27 pmIt’s up to you. Mildly entertaining. I have seen much worse.
August 11th, 2005 at 10:28 pmNah, belay that. On second look, it’s total, dogmatic, ideological kool-aid crap.
August 11th, 2005 at 10:31 pmPosse Comitatus? – What is Jon’s stand on that issue? Is he for or against?
August 11th, 2005 at 10:33 pmSorry, trust me, it’s not as bad as LGF. But he does link to FREEP
August 11th, 2005 at 10:35 pmI would think for. But he don’t know diddly about the second amendment
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1364
August 11th, 2005 at 10:36 pmIn response to questions regarding the Cindy Sheehan/Crawford Texas issue: Sheehan Family Statement:
The Sheehan Family lost our beloved Casey in the Iraq War and we have been silently, respectfully grieving. We do not agree with the political motivations and publicity tactics of Cindy Sheehan. She now appears to be promoting her own personal agenda and notoriety at the expense of her son’s good name and reputation. The rest of the Sheehan Family supports the troops, our country, and our President, silently, with prayer and respect.
Sincerely,
Casey Sheehan’s grandparents, aunts, uncles and numerous cousins.
August 11th, 2005 at 10:39 pmIf they come for my gun they’ll be getting bullets!
August 11th, 2005 at 10:39 pm#276 –
I don’t believe you. Post a link please.
August 11th, 2005 at 10:43 pmI am pro gun, even though the SCOTUS has never upheld the right of citizens to privately own weapons. It’s never been enforced. Read that link. Most libs are pro gun. Wyatt Earp was pro gun control. Gun control was what set of the gunfight at OK corral.
August 11th, 2005 at 10:45 pmLink to what Mr B?
August 11th, 2005 at 10:45 pmSorry Steve, that’s bunk. Thanks for playing.
August 11th, 2005 at 10:46 pmI love that letter that’s going around claiming to be from the whole damn family of the Sheehan’s.
Everyone, but Cindy that is.
It was written by one woman – his aunt.
I got some crazy ass relatives who like Bush too.
Doesn’t mean they are smarter than me. Just crazier.
I would think that Cindy knew her son better than his aunt.
But my greatest wonder now is will the rightwing noise machine get all up in arms because Casey’s aunt is being used as a tool by the Bush League?
One person’s spokesperson is another person’s tool.
August 11th, 2005 at 10:51 pmGun control set off the American Revolution too.
August 11th, 2005 at 10:52 pmI’ve been writing about Cindy every day since saturday. She’s taken over my spare time and I can’t be prouder of her or more ashamed that my country’s led by a man charitably referred to as our president.
August 11th, 2005 at 10:54 pmHow typical of those on the far Right that have nothing whatsoever to lose in this manufactured conflict, no sons or daughters, husbands or wives, brothers or sisters, to denigrate the loss suffered by those who question the WOT, by suggesting that their loved ones would somehow disparage their own flesh and blood, and not those whose commentaries display such a shocking lack of decency and compassion. Michelle Malkin is a despicable automaton, parroting the empty squawking of the administration, in the same vein as O’Reilly, Limbaugh, Coulter and the rest of the armchair vultures, who can so casually dismiss the sacrifices made by those who refuse to cheerlead this vacuous and unnecessary enterprise in sheer greed. If they are so adamant about defending this madness, they should be readying themselves to participate, instead of growing fat, lazy and rich on the endless deaths of others. How utterly vile, contemptible and loathsome they are.
There are seven sins in the world: Wealth without work, Pleasure without conscience, Knowledge without character, Commerce without morality, Science without humanity, Worship without sacrifice and politics without principle.
Mahatma Gandhi (1869 – 1948)
August 11th, 2005 at 11:02 pmLater:
Don’t want to cause any issues, but if alwayscowgirl or Taylor comes back, you be embarrassed but here is the following meaning of thesis from wikepdia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thesis
You may not know this but thesis are written all the time at Universities in the US by undergraduates – my brother wrote his thesis for his electrical engineering degree at the University of Texas AM a couple of years ago – it was entitled a thesis..
So you might want to retrack your statement about it – if she the fat cow checks back she know that you don’t know what you are talking about..
Jeanne
August 11th, 2005 at 11:04 pmfor everyone of you who encounters a troll quoting the supposed letter from the Shehaan family I got this from atrios
http://www.pnionline.com/dnblog/attytood/archives/002306.html
No one can find this aunt cherie among the stated relatives of casey.
And no one but “Aunt Cherie” signed the letter, even though it says it involves all casey’s grandparents, cousins etc.
August 11th, 2005 at 11:09 pmStrange that no one’s commented on the cowgirl’s accusation of Clinton bombing an “asprin factory in Iraq.” Huh. I must have missed that part of recent history. Must have been about the same time Saddam and Osama were planning 9/11, eh?
Clinton’s “bombings” were in Afghanistan and Sudan, in response to the 1998 attacks on US Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania.
Not that this needs saying, but why do we (all of us) encourage and put up with and respond to this kind of idiot, one that doesn’t bother much with the facts but just keeps shouting over and over again to make a useless point?
I’m with Libertarian on this one — though I would clearly disagree with him on most things. Whatever happened to quality, intelligent debate?
Think first, people. *Then* type.
August 11th, 2005 at 11:28 pmI hope cowgirl includes her own posts in that thesis, especially where she talks about Clinton bombing the aspirin factory in Iraq (not Sudan) and proves the link between Saddam and 9/11 by using the mafia as metaphor.
Let us all know what grade you get, ok?
August 11th, 2005 at 11:31 pmfil
I wouldn’t honor her rants with an argument.
The woman insisted Hitler was a liberal for chrissake!
Yes, the leader of the most right wing movement the world has ever known (till W) was a dyed in the wool librul according to Ms. Cowpaddy.
I instead mocked the silly thing till she went home.
August 11th, 2005 at 11:32 pmjeanne,
Every paragraph, essay, or term paper has a thesis, and a thesis sentence. Any college undergrad would have said a term paper for her poli sci class. But thanks for telling me what I already know.
August 11th, 2005 at 11:33 pmOh, and the man who gassed homosexuals was pro-gay marriage…
another of her winning argugrunts.
August 11th, 2005 at 11:33 pmI should have said Thanks for telling me what I already know, jeanne, cowpaddy or taylor. Isn’t Taylor Dayne one of the ugliest women you have ever seen?
August 11th, 2005 at 11:35 pmargugrunts? LOL! sorry about that Dane, no offense if you are related to taylor dayne!
August 11th, 2005 at 11:37 pmMy own take, Dane, would be that with argument, you show such ilk to be the fools they really are, and they get embarrassed and people stop listening to them.
For (another) instance, Hitler being pro-gay-marriage. Really, seriously, I mean this with all my heart when I say: WTF??
I can deal with people who genuinely support the war, but these idiots who support their position by wearing an American-flag do-rag just make me want to set myself on fire.
August 11th, 2005 at 11:37 pmI wonder how many pints of Baskin Robbins our dear intellectual from Berekely has consumed by now?
Any guesses?
August 11th, 2005 at 11:37 pmfor everyone of you who encounters a troll quoting the supposed letter from the Shehaan family I got this from atrios
http://www.pnionline.com/ dnblog/ attytood/ archives/ 002306.html
No one can find this aunt cherie among the stated relatives of casey.
And no one but “Aunt Cherie� signed the letter, even though it says it involves all casey’s grandparents, cousins etc.
Comment by the Dane  August 11, 2005 @ 11:09 pm
actually, someone posted her number at Atrios in the comments, she works at the hubby’s chiropractic office as an office drone. But it’s just that side of the family, She is the sister in law, Cindy’s brother’s wife, and that side of the family is pro bush. It’s not the whole family though. It’s 707 area code
August 11th, 2005 at 11:40 pm200?
August 11th, 2005 at 11:41 pmlater,
argugrunts. Just made it up. It seemed the only way to describe her ranting. They were not true arguments, so I did not wish to disservice that word. And Cowpoop really did seem to be the type to bellow over others.
So, Voila, the creation of the word argugrunt.
All due to our large pal from UC BERKELEY
August 11th, 2005 at 11:41 pmThere’s a lot to be pissed about today. And Atrios is pissed.
While I’ve got your attention, take a moment to call Cherie Quartarolo and thank her for stabbing her sister-in-law Cindy Sheehan in the back.
(707) 263-7312
That’s her husband’s chiropractic office. She’s the receptionist.
She thrust herself into the media spotlight by trashing her sister to a newspaper in an e-mail that even Rush read it on the air. She’s a bush supporter. Dear Leader over family and all that…
| Email | 08.11.05 – 9:21 pm | #
——————————————————————————–
August 11th, 2005 at 11:43 pmlater,
So Cindy’s brother’s wife and her knuckle dragging clan are going to lay claim to Casey’s legacy?
My God, the impertinence.
My brother’s wife’s family barely know me! I see them maybe once every five years.
I wonder if they volunteered to be tools of the right or if the ROVEPIG sought them out and paid them to write that email?
August 11th, 2005 at 11:44 pmThat’s from Atrios’ poster. I wonder if they will be seeing patients tomorrow..,..
August 11th, 2005 at 11:44 pmsickening pukes
August 11th, 2005 at 11:45 pmrefer to my post #254 on the ice cream question.
Congrats on coining new word – Argugrunt.
Lets make it 300 posts on this topic. lol
August 11th, 2005 at 11:46 pmThey were got too, word is after his death there has been no contact. It wasn’t their kid.
August 11th, 2005 at 11:46 pmaccording to the count I see it is over 300. 306 now.
August 11th, 2005 at 11:55 pmI saw a transcript of Bill O’Reilly’s show last night and I am astonished that even that low-life could stoop as low as he did. He gave a despicable performance, but the woman in his cross-hairs did very well for herself. He truly is a bully and a pervert.
August 11th, 2005 at 11:56 pmMisterB
Sometimes it takes many posts to make a troll run back to it’s cave.
But when they leave in a huff, it is always worth the effort.
Just mind your step. Don’t want to walk into any troll droppings. Then tend to shit their pants on the way out.
August 11th, 2005 at 11:59 pm#216 – I think the Democrats who were segregationists mostly broke from the Democratic party after the Civil Rights Act and formed the Dixiecrat party. The few southern Dems who remained Democrats renounced their former segregationist ways.
August 12th, 2005 at 12:16 am#192 Pretty twisted version of truth, cowgirl.
August 12th, 2005 at 12:23 am#220 Where the hell do you get your statistics? Same place you get your facts?
August 12th, 2005 at 12:30 amWhen did clinics start asking patients what their political affiliation is?
If others did believe that Iraq had weapons – they also wanted the weapons inspectors to complete their mission. Your cowboy told the inspectors to get out because war was startting – his war — no one else went to war on fabricated intelligence.
Do you believe that exposing an undercover agent is nto treasonous?
You are very selective in your dubious arguments and questionable statistics. Best you stay down on the ranch where bull shit is plentiful.
Notice how none of the trolls want to reply to Abramhoffs indictment.
There are no talking points for that arrest yet so they’re speachless.
I am still waiting for the trolls to join the military and go to Iraq.
Bushie says until Iraq is secure our troops have to stay there. Nobody wants to go there so how is Iraq ever going to be secure?
Solve this problem chickenhawks. Get your bags packed, your kids bags packed and all of your extended families bags packed. End the occupation in Iraq, you can do it!
August 12th, 2005 at 12:33 amOh, and don’t forget, the Army is giving away free watches!
August 12th, 2005 at 12:35 am[...] I knew the family of Cindy Sheehan would release a statement that would encourage her to come home. However, I do have a dispute with the letter – the bolded portion. I don’t think she is promoting her agenda, but rather the people who are surronding her. Think Progress is calling this a “right-wing smear campaign“, (Ironically Bush is being smeared) while Cindy Sheehan writes at Michael Moore’s website. [...]
August 12th, 2005 at 1:33 amMy sister lives two doors away from Cindy. She was singing Pres Bush’s praise last June, when he talked to her. She also did everything in her power to stop her son from doing, what he dreamed of since he was 15. After HE enlisted, she tried to talk him out of going. She offered to take him to Canada and threatened to run him over with the car, if he chose to join. Casey made an adult decision. Rather than blame Pres Bush, why not try blaming the thugs of this earth for all the torture they impose on innocent people. Had we listened to people like Cindy and Michael Moore, we would all be speaking German.
August 12th, 2005 at 1:42 amTrolls bait us. They write the most asinine crap and then are taken aback when we call them on their stupidity. I must say I do hate the so called right. But I think it would be better if we correct their talking point comments – and refrain from calling them idiots, a-holes and all the other terms of endearment not. Maybe something constructive
Example:
post# 94
“Another Midterm election is coming up in 2006 Democrats must prepare for that. That’s how we settle foreign policy issues is electing representatives who reflect our views not stomping our feet and throwing a tantrum.”
I agree with that – cool and lets have a paper trail, and enough voting machines – and an independent auditor. And last but not least bring back the fairness doctrine. Both sides will have to be more truthfull if they know the other side gets equal time.
Call them on their bullshit, and if they say something reasonable – then elaborate on it.
#94
“Those who volunteer to serve which her Son Casey did over his Mother’s objections understand the consequences of that decision. HE WAS NOT DRAFTED. Men die in War especially young men”
yes and after they have volunteered to put their life at risk – is it too much to ask not to send them to their death on a pack of lies? I feel confident in saying had we stayed after obl and stayed out of Iraq – had Casey died in afganistan – his mom would still grieve, but would not be in the hellhole in Crawford.
Something like that. Just a thought, I have participated in calling these people morons, and it is cathartic – but probably not changing any minds.
On Ed Shultz today, Cindy basically said that as a matter of fact – there were relatives that love Bush and voted for him even after she lost her son. They do not talk anymore. so what? As big Ed pointed out today – so what if she has a political agenda? The right wing has a political agenda in attacking her.
August 12th, 2005 at 1:49 amOnly they get to be political?
denise
August 12th, 2005 at 1:53 amyou are a liar.
lol
You should cut the wing-nuts some slack. I haven’t seen a single comment pointing out that the woman is a half literate dimwit. It appears she couldn’t pass the ASVAB to get into the military.
I served, so none of that crap about the chickenhawks. Frankly, soldiers don’t want people who haven’t got what it takes in the foxhole with them anyway.
August 12th, 2005 at 3:00 amthorn,
August 12th, 2005 at 3:11 amit is about courage. Having said that your commander in chief is far dimmer than Cindy will ever be. what does that make you?
If you have a mom, and you love her and you get your guts spilled in an Iraqi ally. And she comes to believe that this war is a lie, would she just stfu? If you served, great go back they are talking 3 tours now.
one more thing. Soldiers that die in transit out of country are not counted in the casualty list. These are said to be in the hundreds if not thousands. Since this adminstration refuses to allow coverage of the coffins arriving at Dover, it is very much under cover so to speak. But it is not a secret. Thousands > 16K are acknowledged to be injured – some unspeakably maimed. Hundreds more loose their sanity, the luckier ones just their jobs and economic stability. More moms and other family members are feeling this most unbearable loss. I can understand why they cling to the notion that this war is just and Bush is a strong leader. If they face the horrible truth they come to be like Cindy Sheehan and Mrs. Kesterson (who handed O’liely his ass the other day).
August 12th, 2005 at 3:20 amIt makes me a college graduate with a BS in Computer Science. I agree, Yale just gives those degrees away, just look at some of the looney fellow alumni of the president.
Alas, like so many people, I am too old to serve. I’ve put on a few pounds over the years. Believe me, it takes as much courage to send young men to war as it does for the young men to fight the war. Thank God we have the sense to have a volunteer Army. I know, it’s all about the college money. Still, isn’t the desire to serve there somewhere? You could learn a lot from these truly courageous young men and women (we all could). Is there nothing bigger than your (and my) easy life? Should we be so selfish and insensitive to the needs of others that we don’t care that half the world can’t get potable water, as long as our Dasani stays cold?
I never said the poor woman should shut up. You offend me, I actively defended her right to say what she wants to say. I don’t think she has the right to speak out against the war if that’s her feeling, I think she has the obligation to speak out. This isn’t Nazi Germany.
I would hope that my mother would have the respect for my memory and my decisions to not allow the likes of M. Moore and the Pink Pandas for Peace to make her a front man for their agenda. I respect this womans rights, and I certainly respect her grief. I don’t respect her, but that’s my right.
Nice call you made there on Denise. I especially liked the way you backed it up with information demonstrating her lack of veracity. Man, it’s hard to argue with razor sharp logic like “you are a liar”, and the hammer blow impact of the “lol”. Did you make up that lol thing? Can I use it in some of my future writings if I find a spot where it’s just the original zinger I need?
Thanks,
August 12th, 2005 at 3:29 amPeace
You claim now that more of our finest young men and women have died in transit into/out of theater than have died in combat? That’s absolute lunacy.
August 12th, 2005 at 3:32 amMrs. Kesterson couldn’t even acknowledge that she was proud of her adult son. He was proud, he believed in what he was doing. He was an adult. He saved 5 fellow crewmen the day he died. She flat out dishonored this man the truly knew the meaning of service. Service? Remember, actually doing something? Not just getting high with your friends (not accusing you) and bitching about a war that nobody is asking your gutless, selfish ass (not you, per se) to fight anyway. Some people just aren’t good enough to do what needs doing. Luckily, there are more than enough people who know they are not the single most important thing in the world and are willing to put their lives and comfort on the line for the peace and security of others.
Oh, I count Iraqi’s as people too, is that okay? You know, all those people that are taking their destiny into their own hands? I know, we’ve been there too long. Sorry, you can’t do important work between the commercial breaks. Give it time, the Iraqi people are worth it and deserve a chance.
Be Good
August 12th, 2005 at 3:41 amThorn,
when I wrote that to Denise, I was at work. No time to type. Happened to see it – happened to live in Vacaville. Have talked to Sheehans in the past it is not a big town. So I call her on her BS.
As for you, I can respect some of what you say. I can see you are not a dimwit in the classical sense. You can write. And your snarkiness about lol was good I must say. Cindy quit her job to do this. She probably does not believe that the President is going to cut into his vacation to answer her burning question. What would that be Thorn? I know what it is – do you?
August 12th, 2005 at 3:49 amShe has always been left of center, so what? – we are all entitled to our views. See your post. She wants the widest coverage, yes because she would prefer others do not feel the same pain. Such as your mom. Or perhaps your wife if you have kids. I kinda think that Bush is in a no win on this one. He does not have a good answer for her. If her blows her off, which I think he will, he will appear to be the callous unfeeling bastard that she has him pegged as. The difference is that the world is watching. The msm was not going to cover this as much, but she allowed these admitingly left organizations to spread her message and this has helped get the word out.
Now as for intelligence. It is widely known that the President received a gentlemans ‘B’ average from Yale.
He got in due to pedigree not for the rocket scientist potential. If you removed your right-wing leaning rose colored glassed and actually paid attention to him during the debates – you would have seen a total lack of depth in the man. He stammered, he was rude, he was inarticulate – he was an embarassment to himself and to the nation. Millions of us see that, I have a hard time understanding how anyone cannot. Poll after poll showed that Kerry won all the debates. Kerry in the end is a corperate bought whore – so do not count me amoung Kerry’s fan club. But he was far and above
what this guy is.
lol
Yes Thorn.
August 12th, 2005 at 3:54 amThe people of Iraq are in fact people. We have killed at least 26 thousand of them – innocents. Some claim 100K, but to me 26K is horrific enough. I am tired – if you have a computer degree – then do a little googling with an open mind. You will see that in fact hundreds of soldiers that die outside of theater are in fact not listed. Sorry it is true. Insane – yes I agree. Why does the white house not allow pictures or filming of the coffins?
http://mvp-seattle.com/pages/extrapages/pageTrueCasualties.htm
in case you are too lazy. Many more hits.
August 12th, 2005 at 3:58 amone more –
http://www.pbs.org/now/society/casualties.html
this one shows you why the right wing is trying to make PBS more “fair and balanced” like FoxNews.
August 12th, 2005 at 4:05 amThere are many apologists for the administration and this war. They screwed the pooch on this one big time. Even if you think that war is a good thing you gotta admit that we let children run this from day one and oh my God they ruined it all. Yep. There are many cannonballs to be fired back at the supporters of this horribly botched administration and its policies. Just let them finish their job, in 6 mo. they’ll be running in circles.(think maybe now even)LOL.
August 12th, 2005 at 7:58 amIt’s funny to see that still there’s only been one rational person coming from the left to debate. For that I salute you, krazny.
All the attacks against libertarianism have a point though. I am a former republican, so that was an astute observation (or would have been if I hadn’t actually said it to you). And I didn’t leave the party because of “torture,” lies, or whatever else people think.
I support the actions taken to get information out of terrorists. The definition of lying is to willfully misrepresent the truth while knowing full well that what is spoken is untrue. I don’t believe the President did that.
I don’t think people are dying for nothing, and neither do my three friends who are all on their second tours to Iraq. If the hippies would stop with the b.s. and the politicians would take off the gloves, it would be a whole lot simpler, and a lot safer for the troops over there.
Again, I must state that the majority of opinions stated here are nothing more than rehashes of party lines. Very few (excepting krazny) have presented any kind of legitimate argument, but continue to spit vitriol and spew out soundbites and captions. I condemn you people for being exact copies of Ann Coulter, except from the left.
August 12th, 2005 at 8:25 amThis website is a prime example why it is almost useless to debate with liberals.
August 12th, 2005 at 8:31 amTo say that the MSM is not reporting anything bad about the US because it is controlled by Republicans/conservatives/White House is astounding.
To actually believe that the military is doing absolutely nothing positive over there is again…astounding.
I guess it proves that some people have absolutely no discernment.
This last comment #329 is the typical tag along, last word, ego saving ,superior position comment we get here at the end of every thread. Don’t like it here? go away!
August 12th, 2005 at 8:54 amClearly, it is the right that can not debate or have an original thought.You can not be taken seriously unless you drop the propaganda. What has caused your blindness may I ask?
I sure as heck would not be caught dead at a right wing site, and if I did go, I’d know what to expect.
There have been only three collapses of steel frame buildings in history.
All three collapsed on September 11, 2001.
Put that in your Republican pipe and smoke it.
August 12th, 2005 at 9:00 am*** add “There have been only three collapses CAUSED BY FIRE.”
August 12th, 2005 at 9:01 amWell Jesus, you obviously haven’t perused my postings, or else perhaps you think my rational, reasoned arguments are unoriginal or not open to debate. I have invited open discourse, and have as of yet received only one responder of that level.
August 12th, 2005 at 9:11 amLibertarian said – “I support the actions taken to get information out of terrorists.”
Torture is terrorism, Sir. I don’t debate with your kind.
August 12th, 2005 at 9:14 amI don’t see what was done as torture. Torture is physical maimings, brutality, beatings or other gross actions.
Sleep deprivation, threats, verbal abuse, etc are not torture.
August 12th, 2005 at 9:28 amAlso, you make a judgement and “my kind.”
What kind of signal does that send?
And a final rebuttal, are you ignorant of the actions taken throughout US history to gain information? Tell me you believe that the US didn’t “torture” (your definition not mine) Nazis or Japanese imperialists. Or that the union and confederates didn’t interrogate each other. Or better yet, do you condemn the actions of Muslim extremists as they behead innocents with dul, rusty knives and then drag the corpses through the streets? We have done NOTHING to come close to equalling that kind of atrocity.
August 12th, 2005 at 9:38 amStrange for someone calling themselves “libertarian” to be in favour of arbitrary arrest for an indeterminate term and physical coercion by the State. Are you sure you know what the word “libertarian” means?!
“I don’t see what was done as torture.”
So you think it’s OK to chain a suspect to the ceiling by their wrists taking them down only for beatings? Or to shackle them in a fetal position on a cold floor with music playing at levels loud enough to rupture their eardrums and leave them there for a couple days in a puddle of their own urine and feces? You think it’s acceptable for agents of the State to tie someone up in a sleeping bag and kick them in the ribs until they suffocate on their own vomit?
The only way anyone can argue that they “don’t see what was done as torture” is if they are closing their eyes to what was done.
August 12th, 2005 at 9:40 am*sigh* Is he gone yet?
August 12th, 2005 at 9:43 amNope. A Hermit, nice spitting of unsubstantiated allegations.
What evidence do you have, besides the words of the terrorists?
Yes, libertarians are for individual rights, but they also believe in the law and the enforcements of protections of innocents.
August 12th, 2005 at 9:49 am“That one may smile, and smile, and be a villain;
August 12th, 2005 at 9:59 amAt least I’m sure it may be so in Crawford…”
NOTICE: Libertarian, You have been exposed as a right wing troll. You CONtradict yourself with such CONfidence. We get your kind here alot lately. Ashamed of being a NEOCON? Ashamed of having your toned down propaganda dismissed? Next disguise please.
August 12th, 2005 at 10:10 amI directed my comment to #329, an obvious right winger. You immediately jumped to the right. I was not referring to you or your comments at all, though I was suspicious.
You are to be ignored. Reinvent yourself once again.
Good Catch Hermit
August 12th, 2005 at 10:13 amhttp://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,164328,00.html
Welcome to the land of the Tyrants and the home of Serfs.
August 12th, 2005 at 10:18 amBoy Libertarian, glad to see you are back.
You are terribly and sadly messed up in the head. Your nearly intelligent thoughts almost cover up your depravity.
Just because we aren’t ‘as bad as the terrorists’ doesn’t make this administration’s actions noble.
Yes, as far as you or I know, Americans in Iraq or Afghanistan haven’t cut someone’s head off with a dul[sic], rusty knife, but that doesn’t in any way exonerate the torture and murder that our soldiers are accused of doing.
Bu$h and Rumsfailed signed off on the torture, and the new attorney general wrote that bush has somehow ascended to the heavens, and is now above use laws regarding the geneve conventions, which he called ‘quaint’.
Do you think that our torturing Nazis or Japanese people helped us win the war? Or is it just because we won that the awful events that occur during war are justified somehow?
At what point did you slip into this messed up tarpit of acceptance of torture?
‘Libertarians’ scare me. They call themselves that term so that they can keep their far right extremist ideas, and yet distance themselves from any idiocy imposed on them by the neocons. Very convenient.
I hope you or your children or loved ones are not tortured at some point in the future because of this disgusting slippery slope our pResident put us on.
August 12th, 2005 at 10:25 amI don’t think people are dying for nothing, and neither do my three friends who are all on their second tours to Iraq. If the hippies would stop with the b.s. and the politicians would take off the gloves, it would be a whole lot simpler, and a lot safer for the troops over there.
Moron.
August 12th, 2005 at 10:27 amI think certain individuals should discover the true meaning of the labels the ascribe to themselves. It’s like saying, “I’m a Nazi.” “We Nazis believe in peace and individual rights.” Complete nonsense.
Read it and weep, Fool.
August 12th, 2005 at 10:38 amhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian
I’m curious why no “reputable news outlet” is asking Sheehan why she changed her public comments 180 degrees from what she said after meeting President Bush last year.
Sheehan 2004 – “I now know he’s sincere about wanting freedom for the Iraqis. I know he’s sorry and feels some pain for our loss. And I know he’s a man of faith. … That was the gift the president gave us, the gift of happiness, of being together.”
August 12th, 2005 at 11:25 amHey more attacks with unfounded information.
prozacula actually had a reasoned response, and so deserves one from me. Wonderful, and thank you for the intelligent discourse.
Again, I do not believe the actions that we’ve seen so far from Guantanamo are torture. I do think the actions of Abu Ghraib qualify for torture, and those responsible, including the head of the prison, should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
I also do not trust Rumsfeld as far as I can throw him. But I do not think he authorized torture and have yet to see substantial proof indicating that this is so. I, unlike some others here, am willing to change and accept a new opinion, provided I am proven wrong with legitimate information.
Also, accusing me of being a NeoCon troll is both unfounded and rude, something I believe the right is always being accused of. I have been nothing but respectful here, and I would appreciate the same.
I am not a NeoCon, but I did vote for this President. If my option was John Kerry, I’d vote for anyone, even Hillary Clinton, who I don’t trust. At least she has a platform and a series of consistent voting records.
August 12th, 2005 at 11:50 amJarnes –
So people are not allowed to change their views? Perhaps she learned something after 2004 that upset her – like The Downing Street Memos.
I know. I know. Those are fraudulant documents. *sigh*
August 12th, 2005 at 11:55 amsame tripe, different day.
And to you MisterB, there’s not one thing in that wikipedia (which is not a really good source for valid info btw) definition of Libertarianism that I don’t agree with.
August 12th, 2005 at 12:10 pm[quote] Libertarianism is a political philosophy[3] whose highest value is defending and preserving the personal and economic liberty or freedoms of individuals. It holds that every individual should have the right to do as he pleases (with himself and his property), to the extent that doing so does not infringe on the same freedoms of others to do as they please. Often, libertarianism is defined by the principle that no one may initiate coercion against another, which is defined as the initiation of physical force [end quote]
To comment 347,
Can you please provide a VALID source when Cindy Sheehan said these things about her meeting with the President?
I am trying to find it now, but a letter I read WRITTEN by Cindy Sheehan described her meeting with the President in a totally different light. Overall, she said he was arrogant and barely acknowledged her presence.
If I am proven wrong, fine, but I don’t think those words came out of Cindy’s mouth.
August 12th, 2005 at 12:42 pmAh ha. Found proof for you she.
http://www.thereporter.com/republished/ci_2923921
August 12th, 2005 at 1:21 pmLibertarian, re: comment #350
Often, libertarianism is defined by the principle that no one may initiate coercion against another, which is defined as the initiation of physical force
I find it ironic that you would choose to quote this part of the definition of libertarianism, while you blithely defend waterboarding, suffocation, rape and dog attacks.
Wouldn’t the ‘physical coercion’ here be something like the torture we commit all around the world? Extraordinary rendition, which the US openly takes part in, definitely fits this definition, as does guantanamo.
I would also like to point out that I wasn’t calling you a neocon. I was saying that you excuse yourself from being called a republican, because it has been taken over by fiscally irresponsible neocons, yet you still support the most immoral and useless actions, like torture or wars based on lies. Your cop out lies in using the fallback term, libertarian, to try to define yourself, when many of your views seem to conflict with what it means to actually be a libertarian.
Thanks for reasonably responding to my comments, btw.
August 12th, 2005 at 1:26 pmI stand corrected. She did have 2 accounts of the meeting.
Don’t know why…just know she’s entitled to change her mind.
At first I supported the war, no longer do. I changed my mind.
August 12th, 2005 at 1:29 pmOften, libertarianism is defined by the principle that no one may initiate coercion against another, which is defined as the initiation of physical force [end quote]
Comment by Libertarian  August 12, 2005 @ 12:10 pm
Hmmm….Is a smart bomb a physical force?
Information gathering with the utlization of a cattle prod…wearing a hood and having fake menstraual blood dripped on you, chained to a ceiling naked..nothing very “physical” about that, I guess?
It holds that every individual should have the right to do as he pleases (with himself and his property), to the extent that doing so does not infringe on the same freedoms of others to do as they please.
Let’s see..I like the color aqua. My house is in a nice neighborhood. My neighbor hates aqua, but, I love it. So I painted it aqua and my neighbor is pissed. so are a bunch of other neighbors. I like to walk around my house naked. Problem is, my neighbor has a 13 year old and so he gets plenty pissed when I walk around naked, on my property, (my aqua house)and do as I please.
I told him, I’m libertarian and well, that solved the problem. He is painting his house fuschia next week. I told him not to worry about walking around naked, cause my kids are all grown up.
Yep, everyman for himself.
August 12th, 2005 at 1:40 pmOne more comment, Libertarian, re:Rumsfailed and signing off:
This is from findlaw.com:
http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/terrorism/rasulrums102704cmp.html
9. On or about December 2, 2002, Defendant Rumsfeld signed a memorandum approving numerous illegal interrogation methods, including putting detainees in “stress positions” for up to four hours; forcing detainees to strip naked, intimidating detainees with dogs, interrogating them for 20 hours at a time, forcing them to wear hoods, shaving their heads and beards, keeping them in total darkness and silence, and using what was euphemistically called “mild, non-injurious physical contact.” As Defendant Rumsfeld knew, these and other methods were in violation of the United States Constitution, federal statutory law, the Geneva Conventions, and customary international law as reflected in, inter alia, the United Nations Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment (”CAT”). This memorandum of December 2, 2002, authorizing torture and other mistreatment, was originally designated by Defendant Rumsfeld to be classified for ten years but was released at the direction of President George W. Bush after the Abu Ghraib torture scandal became public.
August 12th, 2005 at 1:41 pmMy attempted response has been lost to the ether.
It basically said that the torture techniques you described ARE torture and have been conducted at Abu Ghraib, and it’s a horrible reflection on Americans. The soldiers should be prosecuted and I’m just as pissed that they aren’t.
Also, libertarians believe in not “initiating” coercion, but accept coercion when punishing criminals or trying to get information from criminals to minimize any future crimes. That’s what happens at Guantanamo. That’s what I support. Abu Ghraib is a travesty, and I’d thank you not to lump me in with those who support that type of treatment.
August 12th, 2005 at 1:57 pmI’ve seen that charge before too prozacula. That’s an unsubstantiated allegation from a group of people who claim not to be terrorists. If the allegation were true, I would immediately call out to my Senators to demand that Rumsfeld be indicted on criminal charges. My fear, and suspicion, is that this may be true, hence my current view of Rumsfeld, but I haven’t seen substantiated proof to support this allegation. I fault the CIA interrogators in Abu Ghraib and the military oversight.
August 12th, 2005 at 2:21 pmI just want to make one last point to you, mr libertarian.
torture has been proven to NEVER work. It has never produced any meaningful data. If it had, we would have been told about it.
Also, not only was the cia involved, but also the military police, as well as doctors, nurses and psychologists, who were all present to help conduct tests to see how much a human can be pushed to the limits with torture and sexual humiliation. this was authorized from the top down, all around the world, not just abu ghraib. and trust me, the photos and movies they aren’t releasing are MUCH worse than what we saw before. I’ve read that they involve the rape of young boys.
by the way, this crap is still going on – don’t think it’s stopped, it hasn’t – they just got rid of cameras in those places.
August 12th, 2005 at 3:24 pmTorture hasn’t been proven to do anything one way or the other, except the break the wills of the people being tortured. Again, I condemn torture, but I don’t see threats, sleep deprivation, and interrogation as torture.
I also condemn the military for Abu Ghraib, or did you miss that? Doctors and nurses had absolutely nothing to do with it, and if they did, they should rot in hell. Hippocratic oath and all.
Have you seen the photos and movies they haven’t released? If not, you have no frame of reference. Do you have proof that this was authorized and/or endorsed by the administration? I haven’t seen any. Just allegations from terrorists.
August 12th, 2005 at 3:33 pmSheehan 2004 – “I now know he’s sincere about wanting freedom for the Iraqis. I know he’s sorry and feels some pain for our loss. And I know he’s a man of faith. … That was the gift the president gave us, the gift of happiness, of being together.â€?
Comment by James  August 12, 2005 @ 11:25 am
Dude, there are no reputable news outlets. Fvcking moran. That’s part of what she said. If you read the entire article you will find out that Drudge edited it.
See those three dots…? That’s called an ellipsis.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellipsis
Republicans are too stupid to breathe. When does the civil war start? I want to kill a connie for the real Jesus Christ
August 12th, 2005 at 3:51 pmKillCon2005 – Nice tolerant handle there. Aren’t liberals supposed to be all about tolerance and togetherness? Anyway, did you read the article I posted, which was from a reputable news outlet? If not, let me post it again so you can enlighten yourself.
http://www.thereporter.com/republished/ci_2923921
NOT edited by Drudge. Just so you know.
August 12th, 2005 at 3:55 pmLibertarianism as you understand it is McPolitics for morons. You don’t know diddly but what some toothless hillbilly handed you in a pamphlet art some gun show or wingnut bible thumpfest at the 4H show. Blow it out yer ass, Libertarian. And I am inclined to anarcho-syndicalist leanings. Look it up, moran.
August 12th, 2005 at 3:57 pmDon’t tell me what liberals are all about. You don’t even know what liberatarians are all about. Back to McDonald’s you fast food moron.
August 12th, 2005 at 3:59 pmI believe I posted a quote from the wikipedia website about libertarianism. Someone else posted the link, and I just pasted in their definition. I’d say I’m actually quite libertarian. I’m not and anarcho-syndicalist, although I’m pretty sure you only know the word because you watch Monty Python.
Can you be civil and carry on a legitimate discourse? Or do you just throw useless bombs and ridiculous accustations around ?
August 12th, 2005 at 4:02 pmLike I said, and I read the entire article when it was first dug up at Freep of all places. If your reading comprehension skills are as poor as you indicate they are, or just want to see what you want to see, there is no point in discussing anything with you. My attitude with all of you connies. I hate you, plain and simple. It’s a visceral thing. I am not alone. You are. You always were and shall remain, the lunatic fringe. The millenium and 9/11 gave you just enough inertia to break into the mainstream, and this was cynically exploited by this administration. You all go down for it, and you, my enemy, will end up being shot down like a rabid dog on some other Ruby Ridge, or burned out in some other Waco. Or you could come to your senses, but I don’t think you have any.
August 12th, 2005 at 4:07 pmNo, scum bag. I know the meaning of all the words because I have studied the subject for the last few years, in depth. I have read most of the information at this site:
http://world.std.com/~mhuben/libindex.html
And then some. Over 20 years worth of debates, articles, books and papers that you couldn’t get through in the rest of your wretched life without having three dictionaries to refer to simultaneously.
August 12th, 2005 at 4:12 pmCan you be civil and carry on a legitimate discourse? Or do you just throw useless bombs and ridiculous accustations around ?
Discourse will become civil when the Bush crime family are put away for good. It went south during the old man’s time in office. You reap what you sow.
August 12th, 2005 at 4:15 pmAh ha, so you have no ability to state a reasoned argument and back it up with facts. In effect, you are an irrational bomb-thrower who preaches hatred and vitriole for everyone who does not agree with your narrow-minded point of view.
I am neither a lunatic, nor on the fringe. Evidence for the former – my ability to think and use rational thoughts and facts. The fringe would be Jerry Falwell or the Christian Coalition or David Koresh. I’m not anywhere near that fringe. In fact, I’m not even a Christian.
Now, this will be the last post to you, KillCon2005, and your worthless hate-mongering (which you accuse the right-wing of) as I wait for someone with some ability to have a legitimate discussion to actually carry on with. Thank you for your valueless contribution to this conversation.
August 12th, 2005 at 4:17 pmMike Huben was right on many years ago
One of the most attractive features of libertarianism is that it is basically a very simple ideology. Maybe even simpler than Marxism, since you don’t have to learn foreign words like “proletariat”.
http://world.std.com/~mhuben/onelesson.html
This is what real conservatives think of you, you fruit cake.
Marxism of the Right
http://www.amconmag.com/2005_03_14/article1.html
August 12th, 2005 at 4:18 pmI am neither a lunatic, nor on the fringe. Evidence for the former – my ability to think and use rational thoughts and facts. The fringe would be Jerry Falwell or the Christian Coalition or David Koresh. I’m not anywhere near that fringe. In fact, I’m not even a Christian.
The Federalist Society is the lunatic fringe. They are about as secular as you can get, or they hide it well. I suspect the latter. Extremism has nothing to do with religious beliefs. I intend to waste no more time with you. Read a few years. You make an ass out of yourself every time you open your mouth. I prefer to engage with people who know more than I do. That’s not you.
August 12th, 2005 at 4:22 pmIs there no person who can enter a real informed debate? Goodness. Are you really going to let KillCon2005 speak for you as the left? Where are the sentient creatures who can post real arguments. Although I disagree with Krazny and prozacula, at least they were able to hold a reasoned discussion.
August 12th, 2005 at 4:26 pmI see, KillCon2005 throws baited barbs, hoping to catch me spewing lies back. I’ve got a graduate degree and 5 years in the military as an officer. I’m not Christian, and I don’t like the Federalist Society any more than the left wingers do.
August 12th, 2005 at 4:28 pmI’ve got a graduate degree
Then do your homework. Education is a life long endeavour.
I am a Georgist as well. Wiki is fine, but you must go deeper. I am not going to apologize for my anger at what these fools have done to OUR country.
http://www.progress.org/books/george.htm
August 12th, 2005 at 4:41 pmJeez! Almost 400 posts and Crazy Libertarian is still squawking.
Libertarian, I regret to inform you that this is a Liberal(left) website.
We (for the most part) despise the lying, criminal, Neo-Facists in power.
Nothing – I repeat, nothing you say is gonna convince us otherwise.
Slither back to FreeRepublic or some other bastion of bigotry.
You aren’t making any friends here.
August 12th, 2005 at 5:41 pmMisterB, I’m not seeking friends, nor do I hope to convince you otherwise. It’s patently impossible to try to convince people who are so ingrained in the dogmatic BS being spewed by the far left crazies that there may be common ground somewhere.
Also, you have now just called me a bigot, and I’d really like to know where that comes from. Do you assume (incorrectly) that I am some rich white guy from Iowa? If so, you are sadly mistaken.
August 12th, 2005 at 6:19 pmIn response to Post #15: Comment by John â€â€
“Isn’t this eerily similar to the tactic O’Reilly used to try to shut up the young guy whose dad died in the World Trade Center…apparently to the right every dead person is a blank canvas onto which they can paint anything they want.”
It’s EXACTLY the same tactic: Ms. Malkin presumes to speak for Cindy’s son who she never knew and O’Reilly attempted to tell Jeremy Glick what his father (who he also never even met) would or would not approve of:
Glick: “Our current president now inherited a legacy from his father and inherited a political legacy that’s responsible for training militarily, economically, and situating geopolitically the parties involved in the alleged assassination and the murder of my father and countless of thousands of others. So I don’t see why it’s surprising…
O’REILLY: All right. Now let me stop you here. So…
GLICK: … for you to think that I would come back and want to support…
O’REILLY: It is surprising, and I’ll tell you why. I’ll tell you why it’s surprising.
GLICK: … escalating…
O’REILLY: You are mouthing a far left position that is a marginal position in this society, which you’re entitled to.
GLICK: It’s marginal — right.
O’REILLY: You’re entitled to it, all right, but you’re — you see, even — I’m sure your beliefs are sincere, but what upsets me is I don’t think your father would be approving of this.
http://www.oreilly-sucks.com/transcripts/oreillyglick.htm
IDENTICIAL pompous arrogant strategy of telling a grieving parent or child what their own child or father would think when they never even knew knew the person! And attempting to shame them into silence by implying they’re disappointing their dead loved one. Good for Cindy for calling them on the absurdity of their stateemtns and standing up for herself and not allowing their inhumane tactics to affect her.
August 12th, 2005 at 6:22 pmPJR –
There are seven sins in the world: Wealth without work, Pleasure without conscience, Knowledge without character, Commerce without morality, Science without humanity, Worship without sacrifice and politics without principle.
Mahatma Gandhi (1869 – 1948)
Mahatma must have known Ted Kennedy –
August 12th, 2005 at 7:09 pm“Wealth without work” – Bootleg Daddy
“Pleasure without conscience” – Mary Jo Kopechne
“Commerce w/o morality” – Bootleg Daddy
“Science w/o humanity” – } A observant Catholic
“Worship w/o sacrifice” – } An observant Catholic
“Politics w/o principle” – } An “observant” Catholic who was once pro-life
You are a particularly loathsome troll, alexa.
While your head is up your ass, do us all a favor-squeeze and choke yourself to death. mk? thx.
August 12th, 2005 at 7:31 pmBack to the subject at hand…
Link: http://www.pnionline.com/dnblog/attytood/archives/002306.html
(Philadelphia Daily News)
Does Cherie Quartarolo speak for Casey Sheehan?
The right-wing slime machine won’t quit. This afternoon, Matt Drudge — who already caused one uproar this week by twisting Cindy Sheehan words about her meeting with George W. Bush in 2004 — was at it again. Now, he is trumpeting a statement, received via email, supposedly on behalf of Sheehan’s family. The only signer is a woman named “Cherie” who says that she’s is the aunt and godmother of Casey Sheehan, Cindy’s 24-year-old son killed in Iraq.
Under a huge banner that reads: FAMILY OF FALLEN SOLDIER PLEADS: PLEASE STOP, CINDY:
Our family has been so distressed by the recent activities of Cindy we are breaking our silence and we have collectively written a statement for release. Feel free to distribute it as you wish. Thanks, Cherie
In response to questions regarding the Cindy Sheehan/Crawford Texas issue: Sheehan Family Statement:
The Sheehan Family lost our beloved Casey in the Iraq War and we have been silently, respectfully grieving. We do not agree with the political motivations and publicity tactics of Cindy Sheehan. She now appears to be promoting her own personal agenda and notoriety at the the expense of her son’s good name and reputation. The rest of the Sheehan Family supports the troops, our country, and our President, silently, with prayer and respect.
Sincerely,
Casey Sheehan’s grandparents, aunts, uncles and numerous cousins.
The slime is spreading quickly. Rush Limbaugh paused to read the statement to his 20 million listeners shortly before his show ended at 3 p.m. Apparently, Limbaugh wasn’t troubled — as we were — that other than “Cherie,” none of the grandparents, uncles, or numerous cousins felt it necessary to attach their names to the statement.
According to this Web site, a woman named Cherie Quartarolo has confirmed the details of her statement. We’ve done some research., and there is a 53-year-old woman with that name living in Kelseyville, Calif. We know of nothing that disproves her claim that she’s related to Casey Sheehan.
On the other hand, the powerful search engine we used to confirm her identity also tracks possible relatives, and Casey’s parents, Cindy and Pat Sheehan, didn’t come up, nor did any other known relatives of Casey Sheehan.
Also, to this date, despite all the extensive press coverage of Casey Sheehan’s death and Cindy Sheehan’s activism, there is nothing that mentions Quartarolo. The only Google hit for her is this genealogy Web site.
The closest family members of Casey Sheehan are listed in this newspaper obituary in the L.A. Times from April 11, 2004 (from Nexis). Here’s who is:
In addition to his parents, Sheehan also is survived by two sisters, Carly, 23, and Jane, 18; a brother, Andy, 20; his paternal grandparents, Frank and Jeanette Sheehan of Chino Hills; and his maternal grandmother, Shirley Miller of Bellflower.
Stating the obvious, none of these people signed the statement printed by Drudge.
The only woman who’s been identified in print as Casey Sheehan’s aunt, Dede Miller, couldn’t be more AGAINST the war. In fact, she is said to be in Crawford with Cindy Sheehan right now. On April 15, 2004, she told the New York Times: “The insanity needs to stop.”
Others close to Casey Sheehan have spoken out AGAINST the war, including his sister Carley, his high school sweetheart, even his Scoutmaster.
But even assuming that Quartarolo is a relative…so what? The only story here is the shocking depths that right-wing mud throwers are reaching in their pathetic efforts to tarnish Cindy Sheehan. That’s because they can’t argue with Cindy on the facts, the lies leading up to the war and the disastrous way that it’s been executed so far.
As Casey Sheehan’s one already established aunt said, “The insanity needs to stop.”
August 12th, 2005 at 7:54 pmCherie Quartarolo raised him. Casey’s Mom was a drug addict for years. Casey’s Aunt an Uncle took care of him since he was four.
August 12th, 2005 at 8:10 pmgeorge bush has referred to himself as the war president. as someone who “stands tough’. his admirers and supporters point to his toughness and courage. george bush is the guy who said “bring it on.” george bush is the guy who, with his daddy’s help leap frogged over 10,000 people to land one of five available spots in the national guard to avoid service in vietnam. now george bush is the guy who does not have the courage to face the mother of a dead soldier who only wants him to explain what her son died for. george said bring it on. cindy sheehan brought it right to his doorstep in texas and he does not have the courage or decency to face her. tough guy in deed.
August 12th, 2005 at 8:36 pmLet’s look at that again:
[T]o attain any success it is quite clear that the Federal government cannot avoid or escape responsibilities which the mass of the people firmly believe should be undertaken by it. The political processes of our country are such that if a rule of reason is not applied in this effort, we will lose everything–even to a possible and drastic change in the Constitution. This is what I mean by my constant insistence upon “moderation” in government. Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are H. L. Hunt (you possibly know his background), a few other Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or business man from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid.
You were saying…?
August 12th, 2005 at 8:49 pmAnd again, so it sinks in…
[T]o attain any success it is quite clear that the Federal government cannot avoid or escape responsibilities which the mass of the people firmly believe should be undertaken by it. The political processes of our country are such that if a rule of reason is not applied in this effort, we will lose everything–even to a possible and drastic change in the Constitution. This is what I mean by my constant insistence upon “moderation� in government. Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are H. L. Hunt (you possibly know his background), a few other Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or business man from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid.
August 12th, 2005 at 8:50 pmI don’t care what kind of POS sheepskin you have on your wall or how many years you spent marching around like an idiot. You ain’t no Eisenhower and you never will be.
August 12th, 2005 at 8:52 pmAnd still the bashing continues.
Cindy Sheehan has no moral code. She has lied about her position and lied about the involvement of Casey’s aunt and uncle in Casey’s raising. She has sided with the left wing lunatic fringe Michael Moore and seeks to cheapen her son’s death by making the war in Iraq truly mean nothing. If she thinks it has no meaning now, what about if we pull all the troops and Al Qaeda in Iraq takes over and actually does become a terrorist breeding ground? Would that console her conscience to know that her son died just so that terrorists can have free reign in the Middle East?
You realize that’s what would happen if we just left a huge power vaccuum in that country right now. Or maybe you don’t, which indicates naivete. Regardless of your feelings on how/why the war was initiated, to pull out now would be a travesty.
August 13th, 2005 at 9:31 amYou are the lunatic fringe.
August 13th, 2005 at 9:48 amDon’t be an ass. You simpleton. The war in Iraq is over. We lost. Iran won. Deal with it. That’s because ignorant cowboys like you managed to thieve there way to power. Treason. I hope we hang you all.
Call Gen. Odom the lunatic fringe, why don’t you.
http://www.niemanwatchdog.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=ask_this.view&askthisid=00129
http://jameswolcott.com/archives/2005/08/how_do_you_like_2.php
August 13th, 2005 at 9:53 amAnd still the bashing continues.
The bashing hasn’t even begun. When it does, I will endeavor to be more thorough this time. I expect we shall go looking for those WMDs in some red states. Comparing abortion to slavery… not a good idea.
You people of the South don’t know what you are doing. This country will be drenched in blood, and God only knows how it will end. It is all folly, madness, a crime against civilization! You people speak so lightly of war; you don’t know what you’re talking about. War is a terrible thing!
You mistake, too, the people of the North. They are a peaceable people but an earnest people, and they will fight, too. They are not going to let this country be destroyed without a mighty effort to save it …
Besides, where are your men and appliances of war to contend against them? The North can make a steam engine, locomotive, or railway car; hardly a yard of cloth or pair of shoes can you make. You are rushing into war with one of the most powerful, ingeniously mechanical, and determined people on Earth — right at your doors.
You are bound to fail. Only in your spirit and determination are you prepared for war. In all else you are totally unprepared, with a bad cause to start with. At first you will make headway, but as your limited resources begin to fail, shut out from the markets of Europe as you will be, your cause will begin to wane. If your people will but stop and think, they must see in the end that you will surely fail.
August 13th, 2005 at 9:59 amLibertarian said -
“She has lied about her position and lied about the involvement of Casey’s aunt and uncle in Casey’s raising”
I can not believe you are so stupid. I wrote that trash as a joke about how evil and petty you freaks are.
#385 – Cherie Quartarolo raised him. Casey’s Mom was a drug addict for years. Casey’s Aunt an Uncle took care of him since he was four.
Comment by contemptable shitbag republican — August 12, 2005 @ 8:10 pm -
You proved my point beyond all reasonable doubt.
August 13th, 2005 at 10:02 amYou, Sir, are a fool.
VERBATIM QUOTES FROM WHEN CLINTON WAS COMMITTING TROOPS TO BOSNIA:
“You can support the troops but not the president.”
—Rep Tom Delay (R-TX)
“Well, I just think it’s a bad idea. What’s going to happen is they’re going to be over there for 10, 15, maybe 20 years.”
—Joe Scarborough (R-FL)
“Explain to the mothers and fathers of American servicemen that may come home in body bags why their son or daughter have to give up their life?”
—Sean Hannity, Fox News, 4/6/99
“[The] President . . . is once again releasing American military might on a foreign country with an ill-defined objective and no exit strategy. He has yet to tell the Congress how much this operation will cost. And he has not informed our nation’s armed forces about how long they will be away from home. These strikes do not make for a sound foreign policy.”
—Sen. Rick Santorum (R-PA)
“American foreign policy is now one huge big mystery. Simply put, the administration is trying to lead the world with a feel-good foreign policy.”
—Rep Tom Delay (R-TX)
“If we are going to commit American troops, we must be certain they have a clear mission, an achievable goal and an exit strategy.”
—Karen Hughes, speaking on behalf of George W Bush
“I had doubts about the bombing campaign from the beginning . . I didn’t think we had done enough in the diplomatic area.”
—Senator Trent Lott (R-MS)
“I cannot support a failed foreign policy. History teaches us that it is often easier to make war than peace. This administration is just learning that lesson right now. The President began this mission with very vague objectives and lots of unanswered questions. A month later, these questions are still unanswered. There are no clarified rules of engagement. There is no timetable. There is no legitimate definition of victory. There is no contingency plan for mission creep. There is no clear funding program. There is no agenda to bolster our over-extended military. There is no explanation defining what vital national interests are at stake. There was no strategic plan for war when the President started this thing, and there still is no plan today”
—Rep Tom Delay (R-TX)
“Victory means exit strategy, and it’s important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is.”
August 13th, 2005 at 10:10 am—Governor George W. Bush (R-TX)
Comment by MisterB — August 13, 2005 @ 10:02 am
You better be careful what you write. These idiotic trolls are so gullible they will believe anything. They voted for this POS moron twice already. They still think Iraq was linked to 9/11 and terrorism and that the WMDs are in Syria or Iran.
August 13th, 2005 at 10:13 amLink to those quotes. So you know they are legit.
http://republicofdogs.blogspot.com/2005/06/on-supporting-our-troops.html
August 13th, 2005 at 10:17 amThe Poorman’s excellent commentary.
http://republicofdogs.blogspot.com/2005/06/on-supporting-our-troops.html
Run, you little pissants! Because we are through with your shit, and we are gonna crack some heads! Let the “bashing” begin. The beatings will continue until sanity returns.
August 13th, 2005 at 10:20 amIs that your blog, No Hypocrites? I bookmarked it. :)
August 13th, 2005 at 10:21 amIt strikes me as funny how blatantly rude and off kilter you are.
Also, I wasn’t referencing your quote #385. It was obvious that that was posted by a liberal trying to bait a conservative. I was referencing the fact that Cindy Sheehan insists that her husband’s family had no contact with Casey, which is a lie.
Next worthless smear attack please. I will continue to debate with logic and moderation, and avoid the petty personal attacks which you like to accuse the right of.
August 13th, 2005 at 10:26 amNo Sir. But the Poor Man is a great blog as is Res Publica’s, which he linked to, and who collected the quotes. The Poor Man:
You are not there to debate these people, and you are not there to find some common ground between your position and their talking points, and you are definitely not their to be their friends. Get a clue. You are there to point out their hypocrisy, their contempt for people who argue in good faith, and their complete lack of any principles aside from personal advancement and party loyalty. You don’t debate with this sort of person – just discredit them, and walk away. It’s all you can do.
http://www.thepoorman.net/2005/06/29/words-to-remember/
I believe that you can and should bash their heads in. It’s the Bush doctrine. It’s pre-emptive self defense.
August 13th, 2005 at 10:30 amLiebertarian
August 13th, 2005 at 10:30 amAnd yet, you have yet to discredit me or point out in any place where I am a hypocrite. Keep trying. So far I’ve backed up my comments with facts and not personal attacks.
August 13th, 2005 at 10:33 amWhatever you say, Liebertarian.
August 13th, 2005 at 10:35 amY’all a bunch a assfukin homos.
August 13th, 2005 at 10:36 amBush: “I am a uniter, not a divider.”
Bush: “I am a war president.”
Pick a side. Choose wisely. If civil war is coming, I’m picking the side that makes all the aircraft, ships AFVs and nukes. Guess which one that is.
August 13th, 2005 at 10:36 amY’all a bunch of pig-fukin hill-billies.
August 13th, 2005 at 10:37 amSo far I’ve backed up my comments with facts
Where? At least some ad hominems might be new and entertaining. We have heard all of your bullshit talking points and manufractured “facts” ad nauseum.
August 13th, 2005 at 10:40 amHave you? Did I just miss where you discredited me as a person? Is there some place I skipped out on where I was proven personally as a hypocrite? If so, please point it to me.
And I’d appreciate if NEOCON would go back to his hole with the rest of the religious right too. You’re not helping me try to raise the level of discourse here. You just played right into their hands.
August 13th, 2005 at 10:41 amI would appreciate seeing you let an actual fact slip. We on the “left” as you call it, aren’t that thin-skinned. You’ve been insulting us for years. Insults don’t mean jack. Facts, if you’ve got ‘em.
August 13th, 2005 at 10:43 amverifiable credible sourced and cited.
August 13th, 2005 at 10:44 amI don’t have talking points. I don’t kowtow to a party and lick the bootheels of idols.
I did not manufacture the article with Cindy Sheehan’s original statements about meeting the President.
August 13th, 2005 at 10:45 amCome on, you can do it.
August 13th, 2005 at 10:45 amI guess you can’t. If you really do have a graduate degree, it must have been mail ordered.
August 13th, 2005 at 10:46 amYou have no standing here, Liebertarian. You’ve repeatedly proven that you are a hack with your own words. Arguing with you is pointless. Here is the prime example again. read carefully, your own words, proving that you are a fool.
Libertarian said -
“She has lied about her position and lied about the involvement of Casey’s aunt and uncle in Casey’s raisingâ€
I can not believe you are so stupid. I wrote that trash as a joke about how evil and petty you freaks are.
#385 – Cherie Quartarolo raised him. Casey’s Mom was a drug addict for years. Casey’s Aunt an Uncle took care of him since he was four.
Comment by contemptable shitbag republican — August 12, 2005 @ 8:10 pm -
You proved my point beyond all reasonable doubt.
August 13th, 2005 at 10:46 amYou, Sir, are a fool.
Fact – Iraq had a militaristic dictator that was carrying out attacks against his own people.
Fact – Money exchanged hands between terrorist groups and the Iraqi government.
Fact – Iraq had ceased to allow UN weapons inspectors in for years, then refused to cooperate with UN orders.
Fact – There still is not documented evidence for what happened to all the WMD’s Iraq did have.
August 13th, 2005 at 10:47 amAnd you, Normal person, have yet to provide me with factual evidence of your views.
August 13th, 2005 at 10:48 amOr is it because you can’t?
August 13th, 2005 at 10:50 am24, of Vacaville, Calif.; assigned to 1st Battalion, 82nd Field Artillery Regiment, 1st Cavalry Division, Fort Hood, Texas; killed April 4 when his unit was attacked with rocket-propelled grenades and small-arms fire in Baghdad.
Vacaville eulogizes soldier from Iraq
Associated Press
VACAVILLE, Calif. — Hundreds of mourners came out Tuesday to remember Army Spc. Casey Austin Sheehan as an honor student who was quick to help out others.
The 24-year-old Sheehan died in Iraq last week, bringing the war closer to this town located between San Francisco and Sacramento.
“His life has brought new meaning to our community,†said Vacaville Mayor Len Augustine, who declared April 13, 2004 as Casey Austin Sheehan Memorial Day. “He made the ultimate sacrifice.â€
Nearly 1,000 people filled St. Mary’s Church to bid farewell to Sheehan, who had been in Iraq only two weeks before he was killed in a battle with Shiite militia outside Baghdad.
“Casey was such a special man — the perfect son,†said longtime family friend Estella Tucker.
Sheehan was a member of the 82nd Field Artillery of the 1st Cavalry Division out of Fort Hood, Texas.
Army Maj. Gen. Rodney Kobayashi was on hand to present Sheehan’s family with the Purple Heart and Bronze Star and thank them for a fine soldier, “a soldier’s soldier.â€
The Army is still investigating the circumstances surrounding Sheehan’s death. The Pentagon believes Sheehan and seven soldiers were killed when their units were attacked by rocket-propelled grenades and small-arms fire south of Baghdad.
In addition to his parents, Patrick and Cindy, Sheehan is survived by his brother, Andy, and sisters, Carly and Jane.
Sheehan was killed Sunday in a fire-fight outside Baghdad. Sheehan’s family members said his sergeant told them he and another soldier, Cpl. Forest J. Jostes, volunteered to be part of a quick response team when rioting started in Baghdad.
“He didn’t have to go,†said Sheehan’s 23-year-old sister, Carly. “He would do anything for anybody. He’d give you the shirt off his back. He was just a loving and caring person.â€
Carly Sheehan said her brother was active in his Catholic church, spending 10 years as an altar server and serving in the youth ministry.
“That’s all he wanted to do was serve God and his country his whole life,†Carly Sheehan said. “He was a boy scout from age 6 or 7 and an Eagle Scout. It was kind of a natural progression to go into the military from that. He said he was enjoying the military because it was just like the boy scouts but they got guns.â€
Hmm? No mention of the sister-in-law or her family here. I wonder who the drug addicts really are? Probably the Bush side of the family.
http://www.militarycity.com/valor/257123.html
August 13th, 2005 at 10:52 amAll your Facts are facile, idiotic, GOP propaganda. Each of those points can equaly apply to the US Government. Wake up, Tool!
August 13th, 2005 at 10:52 amMy views are this: You are an ignorant, contemptible POS. Mr.B’s posts have proved this to be fact. Case closed.
August 13th, 2005 at 10:53 amLiebertarian – just stfu and go home to the Jewish Daily News or something.
August 13th, 2005 at 10:53 amMister B’s posts have done nothing but spit vitriol and hate. That’s something the right is supposed to do.
All my facts come from legitimate sources – AP, UN, Reuters. I don’t get my facts from internet blogs of questionable authenticity like Malkin or Drudge. The facts I mentioned are not propaganda; they remain true to this day.
Bush, although not a good president, was fairly elected by a majority vote, this time. I too voted for Gore in 2000. I voted for Bush this time because I despise Sen. Kerry.
August 13th, 2005 at 10:57 amLiebertarian – just stfu and go home to the Jewish Daily News or something.
Comment by Libertarian — August 13, 2005 @ 10:53 am
Nice try, Liebertarian.
August 13th, 2005 at 10:57 amlater…
August 13th, 2005 at 10:58 amNice try, what?
August 13th, 2005 at 10:59 amJust reread the rules of the Blog here and wanted to point out that I’m trying to follow them while most people aren’t.
You agree to:
• Respect other Bloggers — please do not threaten, insult, abuse, intimidate or harass other Blog users.
You agree not to:
August 13th, 2005 at 11:01 am• Post any content to the Blog that is unlawful, racist, hateful, libelous, defamatory, obscene, or that intentionally discriminates against or harasses particular individuals or groups.
Libertarian – I am ignoring your future posts. I have revealed you as a disinfo agent. case is closed.
August 13th, 2005 at 11:05 amKool-aid Alert! Kool-aid Alert!
(leftist kook = realist)
Look! General Barry McAffrey is a leftist kook!
“The Wheels are Coming Off It”
“It’s a race against time because by the end of this coming summer we can no longer sustain the presence we have now,” said retired Gen. Barry R. McCaffrey, who visited Iraq most recently in May and briefed Cheney, Rice and the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. “This thing, the wheels are coming off it.”
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8917944
August 13th, 2005 at 11:49 amJoin back up, Liebertarian. With your polite and civil manner and your disregard for the facts, you should have this thing completely out of control by Xmas.
August 13th, 2005 at 11:51 amOh come on . Almost everyone except you and Fox ,are supporting an american soldiers mother..that died for what , I dont know, and I for one want some answers.. I didnt raise my children for 18 years and go thru all I did to give the president the right to kill my child, unnecessarily ,just so iraqs could vote. I didnt pay taxes, so bush could give away my money to india to develop nuclear weapons..or let billions be stolen by halliburton, Why is it so hard for you to have sympathy for her and her child that believed bush when he said iraq had WWMD ,and then we find out bush and blair were making it up….Lying to us…..You hear…Lying to us and our media doesnt care at all how many die for bushs lies. Why, are you not supporting her…Because you didnt get paid this month by bush? Sorry,I dont know what to believe about our media anymore…I only know that this is not the america I love..You have destroyed us by letting him get away with corruption , and lies. You keep corruption about republicans away from us and we have to find out from overseas, that ,by the way have seen those abu graub photos of americans raping and killing 8 year old.s..This has to stop.. We americans know we have to get the truth from elsewhere because our media is in bushs pockets..We used to just hear truth, not opinion,, opinion was not allowed in news..Now you are controlled by clear channel, sinclair , fox,etc. and all we hear is opinion and you did it to yourself. by following fake fox news.. Are you really going to support a pro war, pro bush, rally in sept. Did you hear them yell ,we dont care while cindy was singing america the beautiful.. Cindy wants peace, republicans war, which one do you want? Cindy knows that cheney, bolton, bush are doing to iran what they did to iraq, and you just sit there. afraid. Well I am proud, of cindy, she is not afraid
August 13th, 2005 at 2:47 pmRun georgie Run..You have a dead soldiers mother that wants to talk to you and wingers are upset…You need to go on vacation like you do when troubles come…oh right. your already on vacation..Cindy believed george too, like all of us when he said sadamm had WWWD..We believed him, but we wont do it again…Wingers havent heard about downey memo (media wont tell us) which says that bush and blair lied and fixed the facts to destroy iraq. Clark said 10 days after bush was in office, he wanted to destroy and conquer iraq and had companies lined up to handle his oil for us.He was so excited, we were going to be rich.. We never had a president delibertly want to destroy a country and all brown people but we have one now.. This isnt about republican or democrat, this is about corruption and I dont care who does it…..Clean house..stop hurting america…Cindy says, that yes, its 100 and yes, the fire ants are biteing us, and yes, we are hungry and need water but our soldiers in iraq have it much worse. Go cindy… god love ya girl
August 13th, 2005 at 2:52 pmLibertarian — With all due respect, none of your “facts” are among the changing reasons Bush gave to convincing the American public that invading Iraq was proper and warranted.
He said there was an imminent threat — a statement proven false (if not intentionally misleading). He said Iraq had WMDs — none were found and the administration has been proven to be hiding evidence to the contrary (Downing Street memos, Joseph Wilson’s report about Niger, etc.). He has tried to link Iraq to September 11 — but the bipartisan 9/11 commission, among others, found no basis for such as connection.
So, please continue to cite your facts all you want. I can cite facts, too: The sky is blue. Water is two parts hydrogen, one part oxygen. The human adult body has 206 bones.
Ah, yes, you say — but these facts don’t have anything to do with America’s war against Iraq!
Neither do yours.
August 13th, 2005 at 4:02 pmThe argument that everyone in the military and their family members supports the president and/or the Iraq War is a charade:
Airman Suspect in Anti-Bush Case
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4141638.stm
(By the way, before anyone decries the potential criminal activity here, please note that the man’s political affiliation isn’t noted in this report. You’ll likely end up having to eat your words if you attack him as a “liberal.”)
A US air force reserve colonel may face charges of defacing cars bearing bumper stickers in support of President Bush.
Lieutenant Colonel Alexis Fecteau is suspected of painting obscenities on 12 parked cars at Denver International Airport over a six-month period.
Police allege he blacked out the stickers and then spray-painted expletives on the vehicles.
He became a suspect after police set up a bait car complete with camera.
Through the evidence generated by the camera the police traced Mr Fecteau as a possible suspect, and he then turned himself in. He has since been released on bail.
Prosecutors are now considering whether criminal charges should be filed against him.
Lt Col Fecteau works at the National Security Space Institute in Colorado Springs.
August 13th, 2005 at 7:45 pmThere are more than a few people in this discussion who would not be invited back to a Jerry Springer show. In a way I think it is unfair to goad them and have them parade their pathologies and ignorance. Many people of this ilk march right to the polls and vote for Bush against their own self interest.
It is interesting to observe the Bush supporters during this time of the unravelling of the lies and hubris which led us into an illegal, immoral and illogical war. It is as though the team they had been loyal to for so long has been found to be less than honorable and they can not accept that their loyalities have been so misplaced.
There is a certain desperation.
Bush is anything but a common man and he certainly has zero common sense, but many who support him insist that the attraction is because he is just like them. But how many of “them” were born into a fabulously wealthy family with guranteed futures, awash with privilege and favors and all of it built on oil and shady dealmaking?
Maybe that sort of life looks attractive to many who live marginally in America. But I think there was a good reason Bush stayed drunk for the better part of his developmental years. Now we all have to suffer because of that.
We have very much reforming ahead of us and soon the economy is going to tank and we have so much to apologize for and the war reparations to Iraq have not begun. We still do not have health care and our education system is so lacking that people are very susceptible to propaganda. This susceptibility to propaganda has been very damaging to our democracy. I am not even sure we have a democracy anymore. It is closer to some sort of theocracy/plutocracy which bows everytime to corporate greed. I no longer believe that the business of America is business. I think the business of America is reforming. We have a very long way to go and getting our troops home and an active informed citizenry back propped up with decent journalism is just the beginning.
Maybe it was necessary to have America fall as low as it has. Maybe that was the only way these issues can emerge from under the corporate owned media, the government that doesnt hold one iota of integrity, obvious and rampant election fraud, a population that for the most part has been educated by television ads and received their life skills by playing lots of Nintendo and feel as though they are in exile if they travel to the next county. We have a very long way to go. At least Cindy Sheehan has served as the catalyst to show us all how to do it. Stand up and do it with honesty and with a well-informed brain.
Thank God for the internet. Without it we would have had to go much lower than we already have.
August 14th, 2005 at 3:46 amI am very proud of your son and his sacrifice. He made a choice to serve his country, and he and those that have died should always be in our hearts and prayers, but I feel his mother has dishonored her son. It was his choice to serve. His mother may not agree and thats fine, butdo not dishonr him anymore by being used by anti American groups that would rather Americans die. They feel sorry for people who want to kill us.It didnt start with Iraq it started many years ago. They hate all we represent as a nation, and will never let us alone no matter what we do.She is no better than the propaganda women of World War 2 and Vietnam. May God have mercy upon her.
August 14th, 2005 at 12:15 pmI drove to Crawford yesterday with the hope of meeting Cindy Sheehan so I could express my best wishes and thank her for what she is doing. To my surprise, before I could speak, she thanked me for being there and said it means a lot to her when veterans express their support. I assured her that as a Vietnam vet with a brother in Arlington National Cemetery and a son currently in the National Guard, it was my privilege to thank her for what she is doing.
The same arguments are being used against her that were used for many years to prolong our misguided Vietnam agony.
The true way to honor the dead is to do everything in our power to ensure that no more Americans are killed as the result of a false and failed foreign policy.
If you truly honor and support our troops, then you should be insisting that they be removed from Iraq immediately.
August 14th, 2005 at 12:53 pmchris mitchell – what on earth are you talking about?
“used by anti American groups” – who told you they were anti-American? Isn’t waging an illegal war rather anti-American? Well, it’s not actually, it’s just normal American policy toward the rest of the world… but you get my drift.
“that would rather Americans die” – now yer getting really dumb.
“They feel sorry for people who want to kill us.” – dumb and dumber.
“They hate all we represent as a nation” – no, they just hate the way America bullies it’s way around the world, especially the Middle East. And just what do you “represent”? Then go and ask what yer everyday normal Iraqi represents.
“and will never let us alone no matter what we do” – then stop doing it and give yerselves a tax break.
“She is no better than the propaganda women of World War 2″ – never heard of them but if you mean people like Mosely or the fella who broadcast from Germany, no, they were just traitorous nutcases. Sheehan is not on the so called terrorists side. She’s just anti the war in Iraq and the continuing occupation of Palestine, which happens to be in direct contravention of several UNSC resolutions but the US never invaded Israel. Did it?
Sort yerself out!
And by the way, someone said that there were a lot of Brits in favour of the Nazis. Don’t be stupid! The fact is, if you read your history, the UK has always been a hotbed of dissent. And that dissent is part of the make up of the UK and it’s people. It is healthy. I hope our continuing Americanisation doesn’t do away with this trait.
August 14th, 2005 at 4:28 pm12,000 pages of oral histories along with hours of Fire Department radio transmissions,were released by New York authorities after a court ruled they should be made public. To hear and read them should be required for Americans. It brings home the horror and one becomes enraged yet again by the terror brought to us by Al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden. And one becomes outraged at the failure of George W. Bush’s administration to prosecute the war on terror and for entangling America in Bush’s ‘vanity war’ in Iraq.
It’s been almost four years since the 9/11 disaster and Osama bin Laden, a second rate criminal and coward, is permitted to wage war and plan terror attacks all the while Bush’s Iraq Blunder has cost us so much more than Iraq is worth. The cost/benefit analysis of the Iraq war is so uneven as to be laughable — but for the almost 2000 Americans killed there. Those brave soldiers, sailors and airmen who have lost their lives did so in the service of their country and are heroes — George Bush wasted them there. Americans appear to be awakening to the deceit, dishonesty and lies of the Bush Administration. Sadly, it’s too late for those who’ve lost their lives in Iraq. The ‘Pottery Barn Equation’ has us trapped in Iraq — We broke it, we bought it, it’s overpriced and we can’t give it back. Never forget, this Iraq Blunder is brought to you by the Republican Party.
August 14th, 2005 at 6:23 pmShe’s an anti-Semite.
“You get America out of Iraq and Israel out of Palestine and you’ll stop the terrorism,” Sheehan declares.
And she’s refusing to pay her taxes. What kind of responsible liberal screws the people who depend on taxes? She’s stiffing Social Security AND Medicare, as well as a thousand other government programs that survive because of taxes.
August 15th, 2005 at 8:44 amTruth(laugh) says – “She’s an anti-Semite”
It sounds more like she’s Anti-Terrorist. The fact is that the Israeli Government kills far more Palestinians than “terrorists” kill Israelis. What you know about that area of the world would fit into a thimble. Try reading a book instead of swallowing O’reilly’s pre-digested spew.
***
“And she’s refusing to pay her taxes. What kind of responsible liberal screws the people who depend on taxes?â€
***
Sounds like a good idea to me. We need to stop feeding this beast of a Government.
Did you know that there are trillions (Trillions with a T) of dollars in federal and state slush funds? We could stop paying taxes right now and never have to pay them ever again. Not only that but also, every man, woman and child could receive thousands of dollars a month for life. Check it out if you dare.
http://www.cafrman.com/
***
“She’s stiffing Social Security AND Medicare, as well as a thousand other government programs that survive because of taxes.â€
***
Seriously, STFU! Your ignorance is astounding. Those are just more slush funds that the Government raids routinely. If you were look in the social services piggy bank, you would find a pile of IOU slips.
If America fails to wake up, you can kiss it all goodbye forever. They’ve built a prison around us while we slept. Time to wake up!
August 15th, 2005 at 9:18 amMy response to your carfman link.
August 15th, 2005 at 9:58 amhttp://www.baconsrebellion.com/Issues04/03-29/Bacon_carfman.htm
The only thing you could come up with to defend your odious remarks about Cindy Sheehan were a link to an OPINION page? Any fool can dismiss 15 years of research with a two-page op/ed piece but do you really expect that I am that stupid?
I know who you are now. Your ignorance reveals you.
August 15th, 2005 at 10:18 am“There are more than a few people in this discussion who would not be invited back to a Jerry Springer show. In a way I think it is unfair to goad them and have them parade their pathologies and ignorance. Many people of this ilk march right to the polls and vote for Bush against their own self interest.”
I take the first sentence as a compliment. The second sentence is valueless and lacks any constructive points, instead just throwing out useless attacks. The third sentence does apply to me partially. I voted for Gore in 2000 and Bush in 2004. Given that John Kerry was the opponent, I’d vote for just about anyone else, including Teddy Kennedy.
August 15th, 2005 at 11:02 amSheehan’s husband files for divorce.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0815051sheehan1.html
August 15th, 2005 at 3:59 pmWonder what the irreconcilable differences are…
August 15th, 2005 at 4:24 pmYeah, that lying clam of a man, our President, Bill Clinton did lead us into a war based on lies and deceit…It was the Kosovo War. Where the Hell were all of you during that war movement? Or are you only opposed to GOP led wars?
Didn’t we go into to Kosovo for humanitarian reasons? Why are these reasons only accepted when it is a Democratic President?
How come the MNM and your ilk never ask these questions?
August 16th, 2005 at 12:41 pmMy heart goes out to Cindy. As a father, I cannot imagine how hard it must be to have lost her son in a war thousands of miles away. That said, the President did meet with her and she said he was very supportive. Neither Cindy nor any other parent of a service man/woman killed in action has a RIGHT to the opportunity to dictate US foreign policy by reason of their loss. Extend her logic and the parent of two dead soldiers would have more moral authority than she; and what if she/he supported our position in the Middle East?
She said that nothing in America was worth fighting for and that America was a morally repugnant system; I certainly would never CHOOSE to live in such a place!!
Please, Cindy, go home and come to grips with your grief privately, the way most people do, and stop cluttering up the debate with Michael Moore’s invective.
August 18th, 2005 at 3:57 pmhttp://www.husseinandterror.com/
If you can tear yourself away from moveon.org and michealmoore.com long enough I urge you to read below and further still on the above website and make your own judgements. None of you can handle the truth as you continue to use emotion to hide the fact that you cannot enter a logical debate about the facts. You and the likes of Ms. Sheehan are so far left you couldn’t find the middle with a compass….
Actually, Saddam Hussein knew plenty about terrorism. In essence, he owned and operated a full-service general store for global terrorists, complete with cash, diplomatic aid, safe haven, training, and even medical attention. Such assistance violated United Nations Security Council Resolution 687
The public evidence of Saddam Hussein’s cooperation with and support for global terrorists is abundant and clear. The Baathist government’s contacts and collaboration with terrorists in general, al-Qaeda in particular, and even the September 11 conspirators should make all Americans highly grateful that President Bush led an international effort to remove Saddam Hussein from power.
Funds for Terrorists
Let’s start with money. At a minimum, we know that Saddam Hussein’s government supported terrorism by paying “bonuses” of up to $25,000 to the families of Palestinian homicide bombers. How do we know this? Tariq Aziz, Hussein’s own deputy prime minister, was stunningly candid about the Baathist government’s underwriting of terrorist killings in Israel.
“President Saddam Hussein has recently told the head of the Palestinian political office, Faroq al-Kaddoumi, his decision to raise the sum granted to each family of the martyrs of the Palestinian uprising to $25,000 instead of $10,000,†Aziz, announced at a Baghdad meeting of Arab politicians and businessmen on March 11, 2002, Reuters reported the next day.
A little over three months after that carnage, Mrs. Khaldiya Isma’il Abd al-Aziz al-Hurani collected a check for $25,000 as a bonus for her son’s suicide and his homicide of nearly a dozen others. The following check was a “President Saddam Hussein’s Grant†paid via the Palestine Investment Bank. These funds were transferred on June 23, 2002.
Thus, there is abundant and undeniable evidence that Saddam Hussein provided money, diplomatic services, shelter, medical care, and training to terrorists of every stripe, including those complicit in the 1993 WTC bombing and — according to a CLINTON-appointed federal judge — the September 11 attacks. The Iraqi dictator aided al-Qaeda and other global terrorists who murdered Americans, both at home and abroad.
You want the truth about the war on terror in Iraq – there it is – but don’t take my word for it, do the research and then continue to spend your time and emotion do deny yourselves the truth….
August 18th, 2005 at 9:55 pmI wish Cindy Sheehan and the rest of the whining liberals would just shut the f#*k up. If we were truely able to express our discontent in this country without having to go to jail for it I would load up my AR-15 and shoot every one of those protesters dead. They make me sick. Traitors should be shot or hung!
August 19th, 2005 at 3:45 pmAnd there’s the problem. Guys like Matt. Don’t like somebody? Just shoot ‘em. You and Pat should get together, dude.
You want to know who the traitors are, boy? It’s the self-righteous, self-serving hypocrites who dragged us into a war by lying to us. Casey Sheehan died so George’s Saudi buddies can continue their rape of the U.S. and the rest of the world. So Dick Cheney’s buddies can stay rich and get richer. So my kid can pay for this idiocy for the rest of his life. So Cindy Sheehan’s kid could pay with his own life. Get a grip on reality. And stop thining about shooting everybody you don’t happen to like.
August 25th, 2005 at 1:06 pmI don’t understand why we fight each other over who is right and who is wrong. Neither side has the perfect answer. There is no quick fix to get out and there is no way to stay without losing those we love. I have friends and family over there and I love them and worry about them all, but I refuse to believe that they are fighting over nothing. We have forgotten how to be a country we are now just the right and left no longer Americans. We have no compassion for each others points of view. I know Cindy is grieving and so are many of us, but why divide our great nation over this. Yes we ALL want this war to end and we ALL want our sons and daughters to come back home safely. I don’t believe that anyone is happy that America’s sons and daughters have died in any war except our enemies. We need to stand united as AMERICANS and support change and get our boys home, but stop the fighting in our own country. I am sick of the left and the right!! Everyone needs to quit pretending that they have all the answers and change this country by having healthy debates quit name calling and hateful rhetoric. We have become our own WORST enemies. We are destroying are country one hateful comment after another.
August 31st, 2005 at 6:34 pmMr. Christopher Anthony
Abidjan- Ivory Coast.
West Africa.
Attn: MANAGING DIRECTOR/ CEO
Dearest One,
Good a thing to write you. I have a proposal for you,
this however is not mandatory nor will I in any manner
compel you to honour against your will.
I am Mr. Christopher Anthony, 22years old and the only
son of my late parents Mr. and Mrs. Christopher
Gilbert. My father was a highly reputable businness
magnet-(a cocoa merchant) from Free Town in Siere
Lone who operated in the capital of Ivory coast during
his days.
It is sad to say that he passed away mysteriously in
one of his business trips abroad on 12th.February
2003.Though his sudden death was linked or rather
suspected to have been masterminded by an uncle of
mine who travelled with him at that time. But God
knows the truth!
My mother died when I was just 4 years ago, and since
then my father took me so special. Before his death
on Febuary 12 2003 he called the secretary who
accompanied him to the hospital and told him that he
has the sum of eleven million,seven hundred thousand
United State Dollars.(USD$11,700,000) left in a fixed
deposit account in one of the banks in Abidjan, the
capital of Ivory Coast.
He further told him that he deposited the money in his
name,and finally issued a written instruction to his
lawyer whom he said is in possession of all the
documents to this fund to release the documents to me.
I am just 22 years old and a university undergraduate
and really don’t know what to do.Now I want an account
overseas where I can transfer this funds. This is
because I have suffered a lot of set backs as a result
of incessant political crisis here in Ivory coast.The
death of my father actually brought sorrow to my life.
Sir,I am in a sincere desire of your humble assistance
in this regards.Your suggestions and ideas will be
highly regarded.
Now permit me to ask these few questions:-
1. Can you honestly help me as your son or brother?
2. Can I completely trust you?
3. What percentage of the total amount in question
will be good for you after the money is in your
account?
Please,Consider this and get back to me as soon as
possible.
Thank you so much.
Best regards,
Mr.Christopher Anthony
September 22nd, 2005 at 8:03 amI think Cindy should be ashamed of herself. Her son (who volunteered (not once but twice)) is probably rolling over in his grave. I would never disrespect my son’s memory that way.
January 8th, 2006 at 9:15 pmCindy Sheehan, SHUT UP YOU STUPID B#TCH!!!!! This country will be alot better off without people like you! I am proud to have served in our military and would do it all again, if I was young enough. I have heard about enough of you and you idiot followers. JUST SHUT UP AND GO AWAY! You’re 15 minutes up long gone.
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