Bill Richardson and the Minutemen: Bordering on a Mistake
Bill Richardson and the Minutemen: Bordering on a Mistake
It should come as no surprise, especially after reading yesterday’s fawning LA Times profile, that New Mexico governor Bill Richardson is going to great lengths to gear up for a 2008 presidential bid. But it’s a bit surprising when the governor starts talking about one of his signature issues — immigration — in terms that contrast starkly with his record. On Friday, citing smuggling and crime, Richardson declared a “state of emergency†in four of New Mexico’s border counties and lambasted the federal government for failing to crack down on illegal immigrants. And, most disappointingly, Richardson asked to meet with Chris Simcox, the president of the volunteer vigilante group the Minutemen.
While crime and drug smuggling are no doubt serious concerns that need serious consideration, illegal immigration itself is a complex issue, as Richardson should know. Meeting with Simcox, and thus implicitly legitimating a radical fringe group like the Minutemen, fails to appreciate the nuances. After all, these are the same Minutemen that the border patrol has said “could cause more trouble than they preventâ€; the same Minutemen that the Aryan Nation homepage linked to (and called for “ALL ARYAN SOLDIERS†to join); the same Minutemen that, bizarrely, derided Condoleeza Rice as a “communistâ€; and the same Minutemen that spawned a host of imitators who carry firearms on patrol. This just isn’t a tough call: Richardson should not be meeting with them.
In 2003–when his presidential ambitions were considerably less public — Richardson told a rally of the “Immigrant Workers Freedom Ride†that “New Mexico is your home.†“Thank you for coming to Sante Fe,†Richardson swooned. “We will protect you. You have rights here.â€
That certainly isn’t what the Minutemen are saying, and Governor Richardson shouldn’t be encouraging them.
UPDATE: Media Matters reports that the WSJ has issued a retraction on the original claim that Bill Richardson had asked to meet with Minutemen President Chris Simcox. We regret having used the erroneous report, and apologize to Governor Richardson for the error.
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I didn’t get out of the first sentence before I got screaming nuts!Look. in todays” world, you guys cant afford to make absolutely DUMB mistakes that the right will instantly pick up on! Now lets do out homework– Gov Richardson– Governor of NEW MEXICO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
August 15th, 2005 at 2:49 pmPuleeeeeze! billjpa@aol.com
Let’s enforce our immigration laws, but allow lots of legal immigrants into the country.
That way, we can keep out America-hating terrorists and let in freedom seekers.
Plus, we wouldn’t need a National ID since terrorists would be vigorously turned away from entering the country.
It seems like a large majority of Americans would agree with this policy. Am I wrong?
August 15th, 2005 at 2:55 pmLegitimising not legitimating…
Z.
August 15th, 2005 at 2:57 pmUm, actually, legitimating is a word…
August 15th, 2005 at 2:59 pmHere comes the politicking.
August 15th, 2005 at 3:14 pmI fail to see how sitting at the border with binoculars and a cell phone, reporting illegals is radical.
What we see here is an attempt to “poison the well”.
August 15th, 2005 at 3:22 pmThe ARYAN brotherhood and other hate groups are infested with “the kings men” or agent provocateurs.
It is obvious how effective this ploy is.
The real minutemen have tried very hard to exclude racist, violent people. All they wanted to do was observe and report. Period. end of story.
August 15th, 2005 at 3:24 pmI don’t want criminals and radical, fundie extremists in my midst, whether they have citizenship or not. If they don’t, I want them out, too.
August 15th, 2005 at 3:34 pmActually, this is good. Between you and Tony and myself, we could figure this out. Why do people come here from Mexico. Why does Tony do nothing but complain about taxes here? Why would Tony love it more in Mexico, because they don’t do squat for the poor there, and taxes and prices are low? If we raise the taxes here, will Tony and other freeloaders move to Mexico?
August 15th, 2005 at 3:38 pmMaybe we should invade Mexico.
August 15th, 2005 at 3:38 pmActually, I kind of agree with Tony on this one. Think I’ll go get my head examined.
August 15th, 2005 at 3:40 pmBTW, we need to find a genuine progressive Democrat to run in ‘08, and all get behind him or her. If we let the party bosses pick the candidate again, they’ll put up another centrist Republican-wannabe like Richardson or Hillary Clinton.
I say we nominate Conyers. He’s stuck his neck out for us when nobody else in the Beltway was willing to.
August 15th, 2005 at 3:44 pmThis is an issue I agree with Tony on. why do we have our borders wide open to allow thousands into this country every year?
August 15th, 2005 at 3:47 pmNot necessary, Gary. I agree with Tony and Mr.B, too. We probably need to limit immigration and and have a sensible and workable immigration policy, but we need to address the issues that cause illegal immigration, as well, thereby reducing it. This is what Tony disagrees with. Immigrants are not just “drawn” here. There is a push-pull dynamic that goes on. It is all much more complicated and tangled up with issues of trade and markets and globalization than just immigration policy.
August 15th, 2005 at 3:49 pmThe Minutemen are the Cindy Sheehans of America. They are making the point that this administration is not doing their jobs.
I agree with Tony on the enforcement issue. The laws are in place but aren’t being enforced.
Personally, I’d like to see another Ellis Island for legal immigrants. If you haven’t visited Ellis Island you should. My grandfather came thru and because of the strict requirements he became a loyal, hardworking Swedish American.
August 15th, 2005 at 3:51 pmOh yeah, and my Grandfather didn’t bring any diseases to this country because of Ellis Island.
August 15th, 2005 at 3:53 pmWalling off the country and becoming isolationist is probably not feasible and it will not make the problem go away. I am not an advocate of open borders either. There needs to be a workable middle solution that might require redistribution of wealth in the meta sense. Something that Tony disagrees with on principle. What Tony fails to realize is that’s all the free market does. Redistribute wealth.
August 15th, 2005 at 3:53 pmSusan,
If we park guards at the border with Mexico, the coyotes will fly them to Canada or boat them in along the coast. If people don’t want to leave their homelands we don’t have to work so hard. Case in point, the number of Iraqi middle class that are literally dying to emigrate to America has skyrocketed since the invasion.
August 15th, 2005 at 3:56 pmThe Minutemen are the Cindy Sheehans of America. They are making the point that this administration is not doing their jobs.
Except that Sheehan is a non-violent protester who is confronting the person responsible for her suffering, and the Minutemen are violent, racist dirtbags who prey on the more or less defenseless while ignoring the real sources of the underlying problems.
August 15th, 2005 at 3:59 pmThe Minutemen are the Cindy Sheehans of America. They are making the point that this administration is not doing their jobs.
This admin is doing it’s job, providing a supply of cheap labor for their corporate bosses. Many true conservatives are waking up to this fact. I know we have many more here than let on.
August 15th, 2005 at 3:59 pmThat’s what I think, Gary. I am all for addressing the problem and it’s results if we address the underlying causes as well. Otherwise we never succeed and just go round in circles.
August 15th, 2005 at 4:01 pmKillCon,
You are correct to point out that corporate pressures must take a lot of the blame for the lack of immigration control in this country. Those guys and the “rights” advocates combine to make a pretty strong lobby against getting serious on this issue. In my mind we need to do something serious or we’re going to have another 9/11 on our hands soon.
August 15th, 2005 at 4:14 pmC C,
You are going to take this from immigration policy to national security. There are definite connections between the two, but let’s keep them clear and defined and not muddy them up too much. I don’t argue that there are not areas of convergence, but I am not sure that it’s helpful to mix them up too much at this stage. It seems a bit alarmist to me and makes me suspect your motives. None of us wants another 9/11, but most people are concerned about immigration for another reason. Let’s be honest about that, OK?
August 15th, 2005 at 4:26 pmAs much as we might think we like the idea of a fortress America, we wouldn’t be “America” anymore if that happened.
August 15th, 2005 at 4:29 pmBesides, if we no longer had our freedumbs, the terrorists wouldn’t want to attack us.
August 15th, 2005 at 4:31 pmSure, no problem KillCon. There are lots of good reasons to tighten up immigration. For me, I think security is pretty high up on the list. But we can agree that something needs to be done, right?
August 15th, 2005 at 4:32 pmNot arguing for “fortress America” — but knowing who the hell is coming into this country would be a good start.
August 15th, 2005 at 4:34 pmGary, I haven’t heard that the Minutemen are violent and racist. Thats news to me. From what I’ve read about them they have been peaceful. If there are reports that are negative about the Minutemen I’d have to know the source because I don’t believe everything I read. Look how the right is smearing Cindy for example.
August 15th, 2005 at 4:35 pmNo wonder the terrorists love the USA! ROFL!!!
August 15th, 2005 at 4:37 pmI agree that something must be done. I would start with a big 180 and put some new blood in government. I’m not too keen on most, Republican or Democrat. The situation in the world is not good. It’s a sick planet, and I don’t just mean environmentally. We are all beholden to multi-national corporations that have as much power as some smaller countries and even bigger private armies than most.
August 15th, 2005 at 4:55 pmSusan,
I could provide you with links to David Neiwert. No one is smearing the Minutemen. They are a perfect group for some extremists to infilitrate and manipulate.
Let me see what I have.
August 15th, 2005 at 4:58 pmI happen to trust Orcinus, (Neiwert). Difficult for me to explain in a short space why I am concerned. In a few months of doing some research in a number of disciplines, like history in general (and in Weimar Germany in particular) and other areas, you might be to the point where you will view the Minutemen more cautiously. As we all should.
http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/ 2005/ 08/ minutemen-home-for-extremists_08.html
August 15th, 2005 at 5:01 pmLiberals and Conservatives from D.C. are making no effort to curb illegal immigration. Vicente Fox doesn’t care about his side of the border and is telling the US to leave these illegals go freely without harm. So we have illegal workers that get paid below the minimum wage, pay no taxes, but they get benefits more easily than those of us that were born here. Skilled pay has plummeted, especially in the housing boom where the quality of home are poor, even those in the 1M range. The border patrol is overworked, under paid and don’t come close to catching the majority of immigrants that cross. What would you do if you were governor and had no funds to enforce the border while all businessmen, political organizations and even the President of this country put you on ignore while silently pulling for more illegals cross the borders?
August 15th, 2005 at 5:07 pmThanks KillCon, never saw anyone waving a nazi flag before. I think their original idea was right on but it is possible that these guys are getting a bit extreme.
I’m not a racist but I don’t have much sympathy for those who sneak into the country. Especially when they have no intention of ever learning the english language.
August 15th, 2005 at 5:10 pmWhat would I do? Raise taxes. Freedom isn’t free.
August 15th, 2005 at 5:10 pmKillcon says: “What Tony fails to realize is that’s all the free market does. Redistribute wealth.”
In the free market, both parties end up better off after a transaction. Customer gets gallon of milk, grocer gets $3.00. Both are happier because of it.
With forced gov’t redistribution, one party is better off, the other is worse off.
The free market is voluntary. Gov’t redistribution is forced.
August 15th, 2005 at 5:11 pmI understand, Susan. I am not a bleeding heart. I’m in CA and I have been slammed into by an illegal driving with no insurance, seen it a bunch of times, and I still say that is not representative of all the people who come here legally or otherwise, but we can all agree that the folks in DC on both sides are more interested in the cheap labor for the guys who pay their bills.
August 15th, 2005 at 5:13 pmGood point Borderman, the Minutemen are all we have because they are willing to work for free. If BushCo wants a better border patrol than he’s gonna have to cough up some cash. I won’t hold my breath.
August 15th, 2005 at 5:14 pmNo Tony. No one forces you to stay. This isn’t East Germany before the wall came down or even Cuba today.
August 15th, 2005 at 5:14 pmIf BushCo wants a better border patrol than he’s gonna have to cough up some cash. I won’t hold my breath.
Low Taxes and we become North Mexico.
August 15th, 2005 at 5:16 pmAnd I don’t advocate taxing the poor, either. I’m a Georgist. I don’t think we should even tax income. But we are a long way off from going back to the ideas of Henry George. An American idea if there ever was one.
August 15th, 2005 at 5:18 pmLow Taxes and we become North Mexico.
Because enforcing that immigration policy is going to take money.
August 15th, 2005 at 5:19 pmRichardson is tough to figure out. He’s very bright, apparently a great negotiator, but also a true politician, saying and supporting what he thinks will advance his career. When he represented a New Mexico district in the House years back, he took up the cause against putting a nuclear waste disposal dump down in Carlsbad. Said he would put his body in front of any trucks carrying waste down there. Then he became Secretary of Energy, and he had no problem ramming the dump down our throats. I’m a Democrat, he’s a Democrat, but I don’t trust him as far as I can throw him.
August 15th, 2005 at 5:21 pmSounds like politics and politicians as usual, Rusty. Good advice where all of them are concerned.
August 15th, 2005 at 5:27 pmPerhaps this is a bit whacked, but wouldn’t sanctioning Mexico until their government improves their economy and corruption be more effective than handing them a NAFTA/CAFTA deal, which screws Mexican, Central American and North American workers? Big biz makes a killing on low wages and increased market to the Mexican well-to-do’s, but as we can see since NAFTA, the illegals/poor have only increased in migration to America for work.
August 15th, 2005 at 5:34 pmNot whacked at all, Skid. I just heard Gov. Richardson on MSNBC deny saying he wanted to have the Minutemen come to New Mexico. I am listening to him now.
August 15th, 2005 at 5:41 pmYep, he is either backing away from that or he never said it.
August 15th, 2005 at 5:42 pmI feel like Lou Dobbs on this issue, though I don’t get paid as well. It amazes me that Billy Joe Gunrack’s head doesn’t blow up from rhe cognitive dissonance he feels supporting the very political group in war that has sold his ass out for maximum profits. That would characterize the extremists that are drawn to the Minutemen movement.
August 15th, 2005 at 5:55 pmThis course of events just shows the ‘loyalty oath’ that every minority candidate (especially hispanics) have to pledge. Catholics have to show that the Vatican does not give them directions; Hispanics have to show that their mother country will not receive any special favors (especially related to immigration).
August 15th, 2005 at 6:51 pm‘Look ma! I’ve been assimilated!’
Come on Democrats, we can do better than Bill Richardson or Joe Biden in 2008. These men are not inspiring except to the status quo. We need someone that is going to be politically incorrect, kick some rethuglican ass, and take names.
August 15th, 2005 at 8:01 pmRe: #19 - Hooray for Governor Richardson!!!!!! Finally we have someone with the chutzpah to quit pandering to the “open borders” folks. I live in a border county and our public schools,hospitals and prison system are a mess!!!!! The only violence we’ve seen so far have been “pro-undocumented” banging on “anti-illegal” folks. I haven’t heard any Aryan talk - the only racism I’ve heard and read is the “Aztlan Movement”.
August 15th, 2005 at 8:49 pmWho could that be, David B?
August 15th, 2005 at 8:49 pmWe have a real problem down there and it aint just Immigration.
http://www.alipac.us/article222.html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8762130
Hundreds have been killed in this year alone as well as Federal officers, Border Patrol, and citizens on both sides. Dozens of Americans have been kidnapped.
We have racist Mexican commandos running around inside the US carrying out attacks. If you replaced the word Mexican with Al-qaeda, i think the MSM would play it ad nauseum every day.
August 15th, 2005 at 8:55 pmAnd he lowered taxes too!!
August 15th, 2005 at 8:55 pmGary, dream on. Conyers is a dream candidate for a guy like me, but you gotta be realistic.
August 15th, 2005 at 9:11 pm#50 David B, I nominate Donald Trump. I know most think he’ll go corporate on us but I don’t. He’s a leader who gets things done by putting competent people around him.
Our enemies wouldn’t dare attack us as the Donald says what he means and does what he says.
Martha Stewart would be his vice President.
August 15th, 2005 at 10:00 pmRichardson isn’t all he’s cracked up to be. I won’t vote for him, and this type of macho crap is typical Bill. He’s pro war on drugs which is just plain stupid.
August 16th, 2005 at 2:07 amRichardson isn’t all he’s cracked up to be. I won’t vote for him, and this type of macho crap is typical Bill. He’s pro war on drugs which is just plain stupid.
If Dick Cheney is running against Richardson, you will.
Mister B,
You linked to ALI-PAC up thread. One look at it and I smelled a rat.
http://www.buildingdemocracy.org/ali-pac.pdf
August 16th, 2005 at 3:37 amHundreds have been killed in this year alone as well as Federal officers, Border Patrol, and citizens on both sides. Dozens of Americans have been kidnapped.
We have racist Mexican commandos running around inside the US carrying out attacks. If you replaced the word Mexican with Al-qaeda, i think the MSM would play it ad nauseum every day.
If you actually believe this nonsense, MisterB, you need to seek help.
August 16th, 2005 at 3:39 amYour failure to pay your taxes is theft.
http://home.att.net/~Resurgence/L-taxestheft.htm
August 16th, 2005 at 4:00 amThis post should be revised, deleted, or moved to less reality-based blog where facts are not so important.
Nowhere in the link provided here does it say that Richardson asked to meet with the Minutemen. Rather, Richardson met with the townspeople of Columbus including the police chief, and some local ranchers who may also be in the Minutemen showed up too. I thought only the GOP threw people out of meetings because of what they might think!
The truth is, Richardson blasted the administration for providing necessary equipment, man-power, and funds to protect the area near Columbus, NM, which has been ravaged by drug and human trafficking and related crime.
The town has nearly been deserted due to all the violence and threats from gangsters. The sheriff has been targeted by a sniper, people have witnessed shootings and abductions, buildings have been burned, livestock stolen or killed. The gangsters across the border in Las Chepas assert control over the area, and NM is too poor to fight back on its own.
This emergency isn’t about immigration, it is about out-of-control violence in a 54-mile border region that is virtually lawless.
It’s a shame people here are looking for a reason to jump on Richardson — without even reading the linked article, no less. Someone should have read this article a little more carefully and done some background checking before linking the Guv to Aryans. Seriously.
From his declaration releasing emergency funds for assistance to the four border counties:
The region “has been devastated by the ravages and terror of human smuggling, drug smuggling, kidnapping, murder, destruction of property and the death of livestock. …
“[It] is in an extreme state of disrepair and is inadequately funded or safeguarded to protect the lives and property of New Mexican citizens.”
Richardson is organizing a meeting with consuls of the Mexican government, the state of Chihuahua, and trying to pressure the administration to assist with more money. Nothing about wanting to meet with the Minutemen. http://www.cnn.com/ 2005/ US/ 08/ 12/ newmexico/ index.html
Both Richardson and Sen. Pete Domenici stress this is part of a larger immigration issue that should be resolved at the federal level, but the immediate problem is the devastation of Dona Ana County by violent gangsters.
August 16th, 2005 at 4:21 amAnother large portion of the money freed up by the governor’s declaration is to build a new fence around the stockyards in the town to prevent “the possible spread of contagious disease by cattle that aren’t screened for diseases before they cross the border.”
“This fence we are building is critical to ensure food safety,” the governor said in written remarks. “We don’t want contagious diseases to contaminate our food supply and disrupt our agricultural economy.”
Cattle pass through the stockyard, right on the border with Palomas, Mexico, for inspection, though an unknown number cross over the border where fences have been destroyed.
Richardson said he had been asking for federal money for the security fence to no avail.
“There is no question that the federal government has not shown either the commitment or the leadership to deal with border issues. We lack support and resources to properly secure our borders,” he said.
http://www.abqtrib.com/ albq/ nw_local_state_government/ article/ 0,2564,ALBQ_19859_3997751,00.html
Did Conor do a second of reading about this declaration before slinging charges about Minutemen and Aryans? Or was he just looking for a reason to bash Gov. Richardson without giving a rat’s ass about far-flung NM? I expect better than this from Think Progress.
August 16th, 2005 at 4:41 amUnfounded rumors are a poor basis for linking people to Aryans.
“Some Mexican media erroneously reported Richardson wanted to fence off the New Mexico border. A newspaper in the United States wrongly said Richardson was courting the help of Minutemen volunteers.”
“Richardson has no plans to meet with the Minutemen, the volunteer group that occupied Arizona’s southern border this spring…. Richardson hopes his commitment to border security might keep the Minutemen from carrying out a planned October blitz in New Mexico, [said his policy advisor].”
“We do not look with favor on volunteer civilian border guards,” he said.
http://www.abqjournal.com/ news/ state/ 381099nm08-16-05.htm
This post is better worthy of Powerline or NewsMax than Think Progress. It should be retracted, and an apology should be sent to Governor Richardson.
August 16th, 2005 at 5:20 amRichardson told a rally of the “Immigrant Workers Freedom Ride†that “New Mexico is your home.
July 18, 2005:
“New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson says a new national driver’s license law is shortsighted and ill conceived.
“Richardson says the Real ID Act unconstitutionally infringes on state laws and New Mexico will challenge it. The law requires that states verify license applicants are US citizens or legal residents.
“New Mexico issues regular licenses to undocumented immigrants if they show proof of identity with a tax ID number, foreign passport or other documents.
“Richardson says New Mexico’s approach has made roads safer, because licensed immigrants could get insured. He also says it has helped the state keep track of immigrants.”
August 16th, 2005 at 6:00 amhttp://www.kobtv.com/ index.cfm?viewer=storyviewer&id=20526&cat=POLITICS
Bill Richardson Profile in L.A. Times
New Mexico governor Bill Richardson will probably run for president in 2008, so you might want to start boning up on him. Interesting article on Richardson & the rise of the Hispanic vote in the L.A. Times.
UPDATE: Think Progress reads the “fawnin…
August 16th, 2005 at 8:11 amRichardson has replaced Harold Ford as the darling of the FAUX News — their token Democrat who wins support and allows them to keep up their silly “fair and balanced” mantra.
August 16th, 2005 at 8:44 amTony says,
The free market is voluntary.
Yes, as long as you are able to do without medicine, clothing, shelter, or food.
August 16th, 2005 at 9:45 amConyers is a dream candidate for a guy like me, but you gotta be realistic.
If realism means picking another pro-war corporate whore candidate, then I think we’ve had all the realism we can stand.
Someone once said something like, never negotiate until you’ve got a seat at the table. Let’s get behind the best candidate we can find now. We can compromise later, once we’ve built up a position of strength so that we’ll actually get something in return.
August 16th, 2005 at 9:50 amDo as I say – “If you actually believe this nonsense, MisterB, you need to seek help.â€
An appeal to ridicule and an ad hominem attack scarcely disprove what I have said.
If I believe which part, Sir?
Every bit of what I said is a fact, your fallacious arguments notwithstanding.
Sorry if you don’t see it but, there is a problem down there.
You said – “You linked to ALI-PAC up thread. One look at it and I smelled a rat.â€
What about the MSNBC link? I’ll certainly look into your link about ALI-PAC. Regardless of the spin put on it by varied sources, the facts remain. Surely, you can appreciate that.
August 16th, 2005 at 10:00 amWhy would you fight this. We just went through a year of being beat up on security. Finally someone in my party is doing somthing about it. He is geting money for law inforcement. I dont see what the problem is. And if we keep fighting our own we will again frown at the end of election day. As for the minuetmen so what if they want to go fry there ass in the sun, as long as they dont break the law they should be left alone. We have much bigger issues to fight. We will only look like idiots if we fight this one. We have to win for our children.
August 16th, 2005 at 11:03 amMr.B,
Progressive movements can and should encompass all points of the political spectrum if they are going to be effective and successful, but make no mistake about it, there are groups that seem like they are one thing and if you look a little closer, you find out they are something quite different. ALI-PAC is one of those groups.
As far as MSNBC goes, it’s cable programming, not news.
August 16th, 2005 at 11:18 am#71 So you can dismiss the facts with a guilt by association argument? No source is acceptable if you deny there is a problem at all. Address the issue, stop atacking the messagenger.
August 16th, 2005 at 11:32 amIf you are a White Nationalist, that’s fine. Just as long as you are up front about it and vote smart. I have no problem with your views, they are just not mine. White people, (I am one), don’t impress me especially. Not at all.
August 16th, 2005 at 2:04 pmBlast -
So now, I am a White Nationalist (read supremacist).
I want to secure the border. I believe we have a serious problem down there
If it were Sweden instead of Mexico, I’d feel the same way.
It’s obvious you don’t want to discuss this in a rational way.
Kindly go screw yourself.
August 16th, 2005 at 2:20 pmI cannot believe this post is still up, without so much as an update to let people know that it is completely untrue (see comments #61-63 above).
The linked article does not support Conor’s charges about the Minutemen. The governor’s office has stressed that he is not meeting with them and hopes the action is taking will avert a planned blitz by the Minutemen this fall.
Yet Conor links Richardson to Aryans, based on nothing at all — hey, if you’re just making shit up, why not call him a Nazi?
How long until Hannity or O’Really starts screaming about how a liberal blog linked Richardson to white supremacists? All the protestations that the original story was dead wrong won’t stop that from entering the GOP mantra.
So, great job, Conor, spreading unfounded lies. They could use your talents over at NewsMax!
August 16th, 2005 at 3:12 pmLaszlo, what the hell are you talking about? CNN and the WSJ both ran this story yesterday..
And the post doesn’t link Richardson to Aryans, it links Aryans to the Minutemen (and not even vice-versa).
I dunno, maybe you can’t read or something.
August 16th, 2005 at 3:47 pmSo now, I am a White Nationalist (read supremacist).
I want to secure the border. I believe we have a serious problem down there
If it were Sweden instead of Mexico, I’d feel the same way.
It’s obvious you don’t want to discuss this in a rational way.
Kindly go screw yourself.
Comment by MisterB
Down there? You aren’t even down there? OK. Step away from the Lou Dobbs show and turn off the TV.
August 16th, 2005 at 4:01 pmComment by Sara — August 16, 2005 @ 2:04 pm
Sara,
Where else could he go? Canada has socialized medicine. Germany? France? England? Sweden? Denmark? Every other country in the world that he might go to… get my drift? There are some really third world countries he could find no socialized medicine, but he’s not going to go there. Is he?
August 16th, 2005 at 4:13 pmHow long until Hannity or O’Really starts screaming about how a liberal blog linked Richardson to white supremacists? All the protestations that the original story was dead wrong won’t stop that from entering the GOP mantra.
WTF cares what Hannity has to say? And frankly, those who do are better off dead.
August 16th, 2005 at 4:14 pmAlex,
The only story on the CNN site about this says nothing about Minutemen:
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/12/newmexico/
A quick google reveals a recent quote from Richardson:
“Well, I don’t like the Minuteman movement,†says Governor Bill Richardson.
“I believe that having Minutemen, individual citizens without licenses, without training, is not the way to go,†said Richardson.
http://www.kobtv.com/ index.cfm?viewer=storyviewer&id=18353&cat=NMTOPSTORIES
The report about the Minutemen meeting was unsourced and immediately denied by Richardson’s office. Indeed, he said is hoping to keep the Minutemen from conducting a planned rally in NM in October. [see Albq Journal link, #63 above] There should be at the very least an update to this post containing that quote from Richardson’s office.
The post says Richardson is legitimizing the Minutemen, who are then linked to Aryans. The association is clear enough to my reading. And it is unfounded. It’s concomitant to saying John Kerry is a traitor because he attended a rally that Jane Fonda was at. Think Progress usually complains about rather than spreads this sort of smear.
August 16th, 2005 at 4:15 pmSara,
I tend to blame those in power who benefit from these jokes of economic, trade and immigration policies, not the poor folks who are trying to keep from starving to death. If that makes me too far to the left for you, it’s only because you are too far to the right.
August 16th, 2005 at 4:19 pmLaszlo,
I heard him back away from the statement, I don’t know if he said it at one time, or if he was misquoted or smeared. It’s not really worth getting your panties in a bunch over. Considering all the bullshit, slurs and misinformation the other side slings on a daily basis, it’s nothing.
August 16th, 2005 at 4:22 pmTen bucks says those bunched panties are on account of Laszlo working for Richardson’s office.
August 16th, 2005 at 4:25 pmOh so now speaking truth to idle slurs is not worth while and I must be self-interested. Sheesh. How many people still think Al Gore said he invented the internet?
Why is attacking Democrats so popular among folks from all sides? Because of the blase attitude of guys like KillCon2005 who don’t think it’s worth the trouble to fight back.
If you don’t think that speaking the truth to lies is worth the effort, why are you here reading this blog?
August 16th, 2005 at 4:44 pmI googled around a bit to try and find the source of the story about Richardson asking to meet with the Minutemen. The only place I can even find the claim is in a WSJ column by John Fund.
For more on Mr. Fund’s casual relationship with the truth, see here:
http://mediamatters.org/ archives/ search.html?topic=John%20Fund
So shouldn’t the story here be that John Fund of the Wall Street Journal is making baseless charges that Bill Richardson wants to meet with Chris Simcox?
August 16th, 2005 at 5:42 pmLaszlo,
I vote for Democrats because I’d rather have Republican lite in the White House than corporate, industrial strength. If you think there is much of a difference, well… I vote to keep this country from slouching towards extremism. Correcting our few “mistakes” are not as important as their refuting all their lies. I like Richardson, he’s not my first choice, but …
August 16th, 2005 at 5:46 pmI agree with you, Laszlo. Maybe Conor isn’t in the office today. Try an e-mail to TP. I know what you are saying, it’s just kind of background noise right now, what with Sheehan and all. Try an E-mail.
August 16th, 2005 at 5:48 pmTry an E-mail.
How about five? With no response. Whatever.
You’re probably right that I’m overly upset about this, but as I say, I am deeply disappointed to see this sort of thing here. Perhaps they’ll correct it later, but as with all such things, there will be people who remember that Richardson was tied up with the Minutemen, not that the story was false.
August 16th, 2005 at 6:03 pmAmazing to see what happens when you’re away from the blog for a day…
Laszlo, I think you make some very fair points. (I also think you impute all sorts of motives to me that I simply don’t have.) I just checked media matters again, and they’ve yet to put anything up on the Richardson-Minutemen connection (and yes, the John Fund piece was one of my sources–though the Richardson and Minutemen connection was picked up elsewhere). Interestingly, though, MM have put a post wondering if John Fund should get credit for a piece in the Washington Times that claimed much the same thing..
And sorry I couldn’t respond earlier; I’ve been busy with another project all day and didn’t see your posts. But I hear you, and I’ll keep an eye on this. And I’ll be happy to discuss this with you more–just in less histrionic tones! (Calm down! I am not your enemy.)
I’ll put up another comment either tonight or tomorrow morning when I have a bit more time to research this, and I’ll update the post if necessary.
Just to state the obvious, ThinkProgress does not have a monopoly on the truth, and I appreciate your efforts to keep us in line.
Conor
August 16th, 2005 at 6:32 pmInterestingly, though, MM have put a post wondering if John Fund should get credit for a piece in the Washington Times that claimed much the same thing.
That the Wash Times echoes a claim made by Fund does not give me more confidence that it is true. http://mediamatters.org/items/200508160005
The only places I’ve been able to find the claim are at Free Republic and ALIPAC, both reprinting Fund. Even the right-leaning Albuquerque Journal stated that it is untrue.
So you might at least note that Richardson has denied the claim and has made clear in the past that he believes the Minutemen to be a bad idea. You’ve plenty of links here and in the emails I’ve sent.
You accuse me of histrionics, while your post charged Richardson with legitimizing a vigilante group, along with tantalizing ties to the Aryan Nation for punctuation, when the charge is not even supported by the link provided (the El Paso Times article says nothing of the sort an doesn’t even repeat Fund’s claim).
Maybe I’m failing to appreciate the nuance, but this seems like a serious charge to make without a source provided, based on an unsourced claim made by John Fund, and sitting on the front page for well over a day without clarification that it is almost certainly not true.
Sorry to catch you away at a bad time, but this is just the way erroneous information becomes accepted as true.
August 16th, 2005 at 8:05 pmI understand, Laszlo. But take a deep breath, relax. It’s politics. It’s not about being better than the other guy. It’s about ripping his throat out and cutting him off at the knees.
August 16th, 2005 at 8:37 pmI may or may not agree with it, nor may you, but even Ratton read Rommel’s book. And Rommel read B.H. Liddel Hart’s. I hate this guy. He is the enemy. But this is one of their books on tactics and strategy and it isn’t a tea social.
http://www.amazon.com/ exec/ obidos/ tg/ detail/ -/ 1890626287/ 103-6445524-4126204?v=glance
August 16th, 2005 at 8:41 pmRatton? Patton
August 16th, 2005 at 8:42 pmEmail to Think Progress, Wednesday afternoon:
I wrote a number of times yesterday to complain about the blatantly false charges regarding Bill Richardson written on Think Progress on Monday. I have received no response, and the untruths remain on the page.
Conor, the author of the post, responded last night in the comments to the post that he would look into the matter further — showing he had indeed done no research beyond reading a dubious John Fund column. He said he would make an update if necessary, but he never did. Nor did he offer further support for the claim, made casually by Fund and denied specifically by Richardson.
Conor also said I ascribe motivations to him that were inaccurate. I wonder if that includes when I said he doesn’t really care about what goes on in far-flung New Mexico. By leaving this libel — reckless disregard for the truth — of the Governor on the blog, I have to conclude I was right on that charge. After all it’s only NM, eh.
I come to Think Progress to find untruths debunked, not to see them spread. With its empty, unsourced speculation (the link provided does not support the charge made in the post) and splashy, incendiary language (”ALL ARYANS SOLDIERS!”), this post belongs on Drudge, not here. Of course it has slipped off the front page now, so I suppose my complaint is moot. I can’t help but wonder, though, how many people saw and believed the post — and whether those people will ever learn the truth: the very crux of the libel cause of action.
Even more distressingly, after sending several messages to Think Progress and making numerous comments here, I have received one dismissive response. I would think TP would be more diligent in addressing false charges based on a single dubious source displayed on the page for two full days, despite ample information that the charge is not true. Instead, I am told to calm down - hey, it’s only a baseless lie, why get upset.
I’m very disappointed with Think Progress right now. Their fact-checking/correction protocol makes the Times op-ed page look good. How very sad.
August 17th, 2005 at 2:19 pmGov. Richardson had Done it Again
Governor Richardson’s “State of Emergency” is equally transparent to those reading “progressive” blogs and comments sections throughout the web for exactly what they are…
August 17th, 2005 at 3:12 pmThanks for the authoritative pronouncement, Mario, but progressives who live in New Mexico know that there is more to the story. Casual observers of this immediately think Cesar Chavez when they should be thinking Pancho Villa. Columbus, NM, is after all the home of the Pancho Villa State Park.
But then it’s clear that none of the people who are outraged by this story really know or care at all what is going on in NM.
The Governor and both Senators have stated that the broader immigration issue needs to be addressed at the federal level. But this action is about crime and freeing up money for the border counties to protect themselves.
Immigrants are simply looking for a better life for themselves. On the way to the US, however, they have to deal with some very dicey characters who smuggle them in, along with drugs.
Those smugglers stay in the border region — often holing up in the ruins of deserted Las Chepas, across the border from Columbus. They also threaten and intimidate ranchers in southern NM who report their activities. The sheriff of Columbus has been shot at, there have been kidnappings and murders, livestock stolen and killed, property damaged or burned. The gangsters assert control over the region, and the border counties are too poor to protect themselves.
(There is also an issue of cattle wandering across the border and mixing with other livestock without being screened for disease, but I don’t imagine you care about that either.)
Richardson has begged for help from the Curveball administration, but it has done nothing. So what is he to do?
Pity that someone like Think Progress has not done a serious examination of this issue. But it’s so much easier to snipe at Richardson based on assumptions and insinuations than to examine the facts.
I, of course, should calm down, even as Mario and Bill and others above buy the line that Richardson is a Minuteman-lover…
The truth no longer has credibility.
August 17th, 2005 at 4:11 pm- Stephen Colbert, Senior Correspondent
Luna County sheriff says emergency funds needed
DEMING, N.M. (AP) - Luna County Sheriff Gary Ciccotelli says the emergency money Governor Richardson is releasing for border counties will be welcome.
The sheriff says he can hire up to five deputies. He says he will soon talk over the details with the governor’s staff.
Last Friday, Richardson declared a state of emergency in four New Mexico counties that border Mexico, which makes money available to them.
Ciccotelli says hiring more deputies will include adding patrols in the village of Columbus.
http://www.kobtv.com/ index.cfm?viewer=storyviewer&id=21150&cat=NMTOPSTORIES
So Richardson is giving people more protection from crime, creating some new jobs, and making it less likely that the Minutemen will show up in Columbus. That bastard!
August 17th, 2005 at 4:40 pmAt LAST, an update — can no action be taken until Media Matters does first? I cited the very same Albuquerque Journal article that MM cites — two days ago — yet no one at TP could take the time to read it, or the others I provided? (I sent the link to MM in response to their Fund/Times post, is that TP’s feedback mechanism?)
You might add to your update that the “ALL ARYAN SOLDIERS” hyperventilating was inapposite and needlessly inflamatory. And that Richardson has a history of opposition to the Minutemen. Indeed, you might expound on the link to MM and explain that the entire story was concocted by Chris Simcox and John Fund, and fallen for heedlessly by Conor, who did no further research.
But then three days after the slur, nothing will really put it back in the bottle, especially with this post no longer on page one. Whatever.
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