Comments on: Hagel: “The Longer We Stay, The More Problems We Are Going To Have” http://thinkprogress.org/2005/08/21/hagel-problems/ Thu, 26 Nov 2009 03:01:17 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: Chris Pink http://thinkprogress.org/2005/08/21/hagel-problems/comment-page-2/#comment-135694 Chris Pink Thu, 15 Sep 2005 18:17:47 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/?p=1613#comment-135694 It IS nice to hear Hagel talk sense, but we have to ask why? Answer: his own political ends. If he were truely interested in making a difference, he'd use his clout to gather like-minded senators and reps or persuade unlike-minded politicos to present a coherent plan that can be acted on NOW. Then we will know what his true motives are. Action is louder than words. It IS nice to hear Hagel talk sense, but we have to ask why? Answer: his own political ends. If he were truely interested in making a difference, he’d use his clout to gather like-minded senators and reps or persuade unlike-minded politicos to present a coherent plan that can be acted on NOW. Then we will know what his true motives are. Action is louder than words.

]]> By: fin http://thinkprogress.org/2005/08/21/hagel-problems/comment-page-2/#comment-108558 fin Tue, 23 Aug 2005 20:05:40 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/?p=1613#comment-108558 Jay thanks for the link. article in Salon "Rich liberals, fed up with losing, are spending big bucks to create think tanks and training programs. Their goal isn't just to beat Bush, but to remake the American political landscape. By Michael Scherer They can start now by taking out full page ads in all the major papers in this country and show the PHOTO's of the death and destruction that is taking place in Iraq everyday. On a DAILY basis.. no words just pictures- i am sure many papers will refuse to print the photo's- then they should start their own paper and call it "US PHOTO TODAY." the photo's of the young six year old girl, and the one of the bomber whose body parts lay akimbo found in SALON today are sure to get the attention of those that back this admin. - that would be just a start.. but if they are serious about changing the political landscape then there needs to be compassion and love somehow in their agenda the politics of LOVE and Compassion.. this rules out fear.. no need for standing armies.. HA! Miracles do happen we have the capacity to consciously change our world now. Yet as one of my teachers said to me "The world is like the tail of a pig, you try to straighten it out and it curls right back up again" hows about genetics? Or you could opt for another world outthere, funny how we limit ourselves to only this existence. Oh yes i can see it and feel it so it must be real. Jay thanks for the link. article in Salon “Rich liberals, fed up with losing, are spending big bucks to create think tanks and training programs. Their goal isn’t just to beat Bush, but to remake the American political landscape.
By Michael Scherer They can start now by taking out full page ads in all the major papers in this country and show the PHOTO’s of the death and destruction that is taking place in Iraq everyday. On a DAILY basis.. no words just pictures- i am sure many papers will refuse to print the photo’s- then they should start their own paper and call it “US PHOTO TODAY.” the photo’s of the young six year old girl, and the one of the bomber whose body parts lay akimbo found in SALON today are sure to get the attention of those that back this admin. – that would be just a start.. but if they are serious about changing the political landscape then there needs to be compassion and love somehow in their agenda the politics of LOVE and Compassion.. this rules out fear.. no need for standing armies.. HA! Miracles do happen we have the capacity to consciously change our world now. Yet as one of my teachers said to me “The world is like the tail of a pig, you try to straighten it out and it curls right back up again” hows about genetics? Or you could opt for another world outthere, funny how we limit ourselves to only this existence. Oh yes i can see it and feel it so it must be real.

]]> By: Jay http://thinkprogress.org/2005/08/21/hagel-problems/comment-page-2/#comment-108008 Jay Tue, 23 Aug 2005 13:09:20 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/?p=1613#comment-108008 fin, you might get a kick out of this article from Molly Ivins a while back: http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?itemid=18028 fin, you might get a kick out of this article from Molly Ivins a while back:

http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?itemid=18028

]]> By: fin http://thinkprogress.org/2005/08/21/hagel-problems/comment-page-2/#comment-107952 fin Tue, 23 Aug 2005 10:40:53 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/?p=1613#comment-107952 There is plenty passionate thought of what to do about Iraq posted above. If the Democrats were to win the next election what would they do? By the time the elections roll around the war in Iraq will be escalating. The debt for the war in terms of life and monies spend will also be up there- there will be talk about how we are going to pay back the debt, and the price of gas at the pump will be closer to $4 dollars a gallon. Interest rates will be creeping up busting the so called real estate bubble. The babyboomers will be retiring, medical costs will keep soaring, and still no handle on the immigration problem. the Rapture vs the Jihadist will be in full play. Wow! are the Democrats sure they want to take this on yet again? I say let this country really get what has happened, let the Republican wear the full mantle of what they have sowed, and let them stay in office! - let the right win let the rapture begin.. then and only then will this country and this world get it- then perhaps there will be change that will last for centuries... i say true people of Democracy save your breathe and your money stand aside and let the shit really hit the fan. There is tremedous power in not doing but standing firm, not judging, but praying that all this too shall pass. Dinasaurs-Republicans tarpits- oilwells we are all compassionate being. There is plenty passionate thought of what to do about Iraq posted above. If the Democrats were to win the next election what would they do? By the time the elections roll around the war in Iraq will be escalating. The debt for the war in terms of life and monies spend will also be up there- there will be talk about how we are going to pay back the debt, and the price of gas at the pump will be closer to $4 dollars a gallon. Interest rates will be creeping up busting the so called real estate bubble. The babyboomers will be retiring, medical costs will keep soaring, and still no handle on the immigration problem. the Rapture vs the Jihadist will be in full play. Wow! are the Democrats sure they want to take this on yet again? I say let this country really get what has happened, let the Republican wear the full mantle of what they have sowed, and let them stay in office! – let the right win let the rapture begin.. then and only then will this country and this world get it- then perhaps there will be change that will last for centuries… i say true people of Democracy save your breathe and your money stand aside and let the shit really hit the fan. There is tremedous power in not doing but standing firm, not judging, but praying that all this too shall pass. Dinasaurs-Republicans tarpits- oilwells we are all compassionate being.

]]> By: HorsesAss.Org » “Stay the course is not a policy” http://thinkprogress.org/2005/08/21/hagel-problems/comment-page-2/#comment-107866 HorsesAss.Org » “Stay the course is not a policy” Tue, 23 Aug 2005 06:19:27 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/?p=1613#comment-107866 [...] So… which hate-America-first, lefty, lunatic-fringe wacko gave this devastating critique of the war in Iraq? Um… Republican Sen. Chuck Hagel of Nebraska, who received two Purple Hearts and other military honors for his service in Vietnam, and who sits on both the Foreign Relations Committee and the Select Committee on Intelligence. He continues: “We should start figuring out how we get out of there … I think our involvement there has destabilized the Middle East. And the longer we stay there, I think the further destabilization will occur.” [...] [...] So… which hate-America-first, lefty, lunatic-fringe wacko gave this devastating critique of the war in Iraq? Um… Republican Sen. Chuck Hagel of Nebraska, who received two Purple Hearts and other military honors for his service in Vietnam, and who sits on both the Foreign Relations Committee and the Select Committee on Intelligence. He continues: “We should start figuring out how we get out of there … I think our involvement there has destabilized the Middle East. And the longer we stay there, I think the further destabilization will occur.” [...]

]]> By: neurophius http://thinkprogress.org/2005/08/21/hagel-problems/comment-page-2/#comment-107807 neurophius Tue, 23 Aug 2005 03:03:25 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/?p=1613#comment-107807 Is it time yet for Party Chairman Howard Dean to start cranking up his campaign for President in 2008? Is it time yet for Party Chairman Howard Dean to start cranking up his campaign for President in 2008?

]]> By: Mike Peck http://thinkprogress.org/2005/08/21/hagel-problems/comment-page-2/#comment-107773 Mike Peck Tue, 23 Aug 2005 02:17:06 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/?p=1613#comment-107773 I hate to think about all the lives wasted on a lie (WMD). However it seems to me more lives will be spent on this lie if something in't done to get us out of this mess. Every time I hear about another person whose life is lost in Iraq my skin crawls. To think that this country has done such a crime is inexcusable. We should never have gone there.We should have "stayed the course" in Afganistan. The real other criminal (Bin Laden) is still out there wreaking havoc. The only thing that we have gained from our misguided Iraq adventure is more people who want to do us harm. I don't think that history will be very kind to George Bush for what he has done to this country financially, spiritually and to our reputation. I hate to think about all the lives wasted on a lie (WMD). However it seems to me more lives will be spent on this lie if something in’t done to get us out of this mess. Every time I hear about another person whose life is lost in Iraq my skin crawls. To think that this country has done such a crime is inexcusable. We should never have gone there.We should have “stayed the course” in Afganistan. The real other criminal (Bin Laden) is still out there wreaking havoc. The only thing that we have gained from our misguided Iraq adventure is more people who want to do us harm. I don’t think that history will be very kind to George Bush for what he has done to this country financially, spiritually and to our reputation.

]]> By: Jay http://thinkprogress.org/2005/08/21/hagel-problems/comment-page-2/#comment-107071 Jay Mon, 22 Aug 2005 17:52:28 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/?p=1613#comment-107071 So true azulie, so true. Their credo is "to the victor goes the spoils" and they refuse to play nice with the other kids in the global schoolyard. Hey, Putin and Chirac and Schroeder warned us before BushCo plunged headfirst into the abyss that is Iraq......I wonder what they're thinking now? So true azulie, so true. Their credo is “to the victor goes the spoils” and they refuse to play nice with the other kids in the global schoolyard. Hey, Putin and Chirac and Schroeder warned us before BushCo plunged headfirst into the abyss that is Iraq……I wonder what they’re thinking now?

]]> By: azulie http://thinkprogress.org/2005/08/21/hagel-problems/comment-page-2/#comment-107053 azulie Mon, 22 Aug 2005 17:38:27 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/?p=1613#comment-107053 Anti-Illegal War is much better than Anti-War but the real term is Anti-Illegal Invasion and Colonial Rule. The only way to get out is to involve the United Nations and other International Tribunals but that is probably impossible because this admin. has no interest in nor ability to practice Diplomacy - this is the horrifying truth. Anti-Illegal War is much better than Anti-War but the real term is Anti-Illegal Invasion and Colonial Rule. The only way to get out is to involve the United Nations and other International Tribunals but that is probably impossible because this admin. has no interest in nor ability to practice Diplomacy – this is the horrifying truth.

]]> By: Cld Prter http://thinkprogress.org/2005/08/21/hagel-problems/comment-page-2/#comment-107027 Cld Prter Mon, 22 Aug 2005 17:13:21 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/?p=1613#comment-107027 <em>It is time for the Democratic party to unify on Iraq, and take a stand. John Kerry and Joe Biden are two of my favorite guys in the DNC</em> Huh? It is time for the Democratic party to unify on Iraq, and take a stand.
John Kerry and Joe Biden are two of my favorite guys in the DNC

Huh?

]]> By: R http://thinkprogress.org/2005/08/21/hagel-problems/comment-page-2/#comment-107013 R Mon, 22 Aug 2005 17:01:47 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/?p=1613#comment-107013 Hey Martha - grab a clue. this is the internet and a lively debate is welcome! if you can't handle it, go somewhere else! These so called "Iraq war veterans" who are posting on this blog are a total joke. If they are who they say they are I'm worried about our military. Their logic is the same propaganda crap used during Vietnam. Perhaps they should consider switching political party's so they can support a president who believes in murder and lies. We're better off without them. Hey Martha – grab a clue. this is the internet and a lively debate is welcome! if you can’t handle it, go somewhere else!

These so called “Iraq war veterans” who are posting on this blog are a total joke. If they are who they say they are I’m worried about our military. Their logic is the same propaganda crap used during Vietnam. Perhaps they should consider switching political party’s so they can support a president who believes in murder and lies. We’re better off without them.

]]> By: Jay http://thinkprogress.org/2005/08/21/hagel-problems/comment-page-2/#comment-107011 Jay Mon, 22 Aug 2005 17:01:09 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/?p=1613#comment-107011 Martha, You might find it hard to believe but this thread is one of the least attack-filled, vitriolic debates I've seen in some time. Where is the uncivilized namecalling in this thread? Martha,

You might find it hard to believe but this thread is one of the least attack-filled, vitriolic debates I’ve seen in some time. Where is the uncivilized namecalling in this thread?

]]> By: Martha http://thinkprogress.org/2005/08/21/hagel-problems/comment-page-2/#comment-106993 Martha Mon, 22 Aug 2005 16:49:42 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/?p=1613#comment-106993 Hi everyone, I saw "Dead Wrong" last night and was very impressed with the show. I am saddened to think about how we were all so misled about going to war. And what's worse, no one is held accountable. Here's what makes me even sadder: Those of you in our party who choose to attack each other because you disagree. I have seen this before. During Vietnam. It was ugly then and is growing uglier by the day now. We have a choice. We can choose to debate one another with respect or we can resort to name-calling. I think Blogs were created as places where people who disagree can have a civil debate, and not resort to name calling or questioning someone else's motives. I do not think we should be in Iraq and I think we were misled and I want our troops home now. But I respect those who disagree with me. And if someone has a different point of view it should be expressed and debated. Hi everyone,

I saw “Dead Wrong” last night and was very impressed with the show. I am saddened to think about how we were all so misled about going to war. And what’s worse, no one is held accountable.

Here’s what makes me even sadder: Those of you in our party who choose to attack each other because you disagree. I have seen this before. During Vietnam. It was ugly then and is growing uglier by the day now.

We have a choice. We can choose to debate one another with respect or we can resort to name-calling. I think Blogs were created as places where people who disagree can have a civil debate, and not resort to name calling or questioning someone else’s motives. I do not think we should be in Iraq and I think we were misled and I want our troops home now. But I respect those who disagree with me. And if someone has a different point of view it should be expressed and debated.

]]> By: C http://thinkprogress.org/2005/08/21/hagel-problems/comment-page-2/#comment-106855 C Mon, 22 Aug 2005 14:59:22 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/?p=1613#comment-106855 what does it matter if the democrats win if they are just going to be republican light? we need a true liberal in the white house.not Hilary, she used to have strong liberal values but has shown she would rather be president than be true to herself. what does it matter if the democrats win if they are just going to be republican light? we need a true liberal in the white house.not Hilary, she used to have strong liberal values but has shown she would rather be president than be true to herself.

]]> By: cmw http://thinkprogress.org/2005/08/21/hagel-problems/comment-page-2/#comment-106825 cmw Mon, 22 Aug 2005 14:31:24 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/?p=1613#comment-106825 Cactus Jack Your arrogance puts me off to reading your posts in their lengthy entirety. I'll make my point short and sweet. Voting for Hilary, Biden or Kerry, would be like voting for LBJ in '64. LBJ intensified the war instead of withdrawing. He did what you are proposing. And it failed. You can't fight and win against people who are fighting for THEIR land. You may call them insurgents, or freedom fighters. Regardless, they are fighting for THEIR land. We are invaders. It could never, and will never work. The only intelligent, honorable, rational thing to do is to get out now. Cactus Jack

Your arrogance puts me off to reading your posts in their lengthy entirety.

I’ll make my point short and sweet. Voting for Hilary, Biden or Kerry, would be like voting for LBJ in ‘64.
LBJ intensified the war instead of withdrawing. He did what you are proposing. And it failed. You can’t fight and win against people who are fighting for THEIR land. You may call them insurgents, or freedom fighters. Regardless, they are fighting for THEIR land. We are invaders. It could never, and will never work. The only intelligent, honorable, rational thing to do is to get out now.

]]> By: Jay http://thinkprogress.org/2005/08/21/hagel-problems/comment-page-2/#comment-106817 Jay Mon, 22 Aug 2005 14:13:57 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/?p=1613#comment-106817 Cactus Jack, First off thanks for the response and you are correct, as I re-read my last post, I need to tone down the overblown rhetoric, I am passionate about this issue and to be frank I'm angry about where we stand as a nation under our current "leadership". We do, in fact, need to figure out how we move forward and I'm not sure that either political party has enough courage or integrity to admit their mistakes and implement viable solutions. I am not a Democrat but a registered Independent and have always voted accordingly, but I wouldn't vote GOP if my life depended on it (and it might) at this point. Your rational argument about "fighting right or getting out" has merit but more for the latter half than the former. Let's move past the argument that the decision to invade Iraq may be the most reprehensible decision an American President has ever made and imagine for a moment that Bush is removed from power tomorrow. What next. Your support for the "Powell Doctrine of overwhelming the enemy" is a recipe for disaster in my opinion. You know we weren't justified in invading Iraq and in killing 10's of thousands of innocent people and yet you support a strategy of continuing the cycle of violence? The Iraqi resistance is not comprised solely of "terrorists", "Baathist remnants" and "radical elements". These people are defending their land and their resources and their families just as you or I would if the U.S. were invaded and occupied. Our government is responsible for the deaths , the chaos, the downright imperialistic grab for a foothold in the region (building massive bases there and closing them here?) and your answer is to inflict more damage.....drop more bombs? That is an insane approach. Why are we there? If you argue that we're in Iraq for the same reasons that I believe (hegemony, natural resources, war-profiteering, PNAC) then our presence is WRONG and it cannot stand. Attempts to stay and quell the violence as Iraqi militia are trained and ready to fend for themsleves will be open-ended. The Iraqi people see those bases being built, they understand that we are controlling their resources and that foreign companies are rebuilding their nation in a more Western image and they resent it. Ultimately, they will fight us forever. A lose-lose propostion unless you're an executive at KBR, Halliburton or Exxon/Mobil et. al On the other hand, if you believe that we invaded Iraq to rid its oppressed people of a brutal dictator, to find and secure WMD, fight the terrorists "over there" and to bring freedom and democracy to the Iraqi people, I say you're badly misguided....yet this is what we are told is the noble cause. Hussein is gone, there were no WMD, freedom and democracy brought to you at the point of a gun is neither free nor is it democratic and the current "terrorist" element in Babylon, while clearly created by our very presence, is the new reality in the Muslim world, and nothing can change that now. An expedient withdrawal would prove that some of the Bush administration's arguments for invading had some validity, but we both know that they didn't. So we stay and thousands more die. Insanity. People like you need to step up and oppose this nonsense instead of burying your head in the sand and pretending further occupation is going to make things better for either Iraqis or Americans in the long-term. It won't. It needs to stop, now. Cactus Jack,

First off thanks for the response and you are correct, as I re-read my last post, I need to tone down the overblown rhetoric, I am passionate about this issue and to be frank I’m angry about where we stand as a nation under our current “leadership”. We do, in fact, need to figure out how we move forward and I’m not sure that either political party has enough courage or integrity to admit their mistakes and implement viable solutions. I am not a Democrat but a registered Independent and have always voted accordingly, but I wouldn’t vote GOP if my life depended on it (and it might) at this point.

Your rational argument about “fighting right or getting out” has merit but more for the latter half than the former.

Let’s move past the argument that the decision to invade Iraq may be the most reprehensible decision an American President has ever made and imagine for a moment that Bush is removed from power tomorrow. What next. Your support for the “Powell Doctrine of overwhelming the enemy” is a recipe for disaster in my opinion. You know we weren’t justified in invading Iraq and in killing 10’s of thousands of innocent people and yet you support a strategy of continuing the cycle of violence? The Iraqi resistance is not comprised solely of “terrorists”, “Baathist remnants” and “radical elements”. These people are defending their land and their resources and their families just as you or I would if the U.S. were invaded and occupied. Our government is responsible for the deaths , the chaos, the downright imperialistic grab for a foothold in the region (building massive bases there and closing them here?) and your answer is to inflict more damage…..drop more bombs? That is an insane approach.

Why are we there? If you argue that we’re in Iraq for the same reasons that I believe (hegemony, natural resources, war-profiteering, PNAC) then our presence is WRONG and it cannot stand. Attempts to stay and quell the violence as Iraqi militia are trained and ready to fend for themsleves will be open-ended. The Iraqi people see those bases being built, they understand that we are controlling their resources and that foreign companies are rebuilding their nation in a more Western image and they resent it. Ultimately, they will fight us forever. A lose-lose propostion unless you’re an executive at KBR, Halliburton or Exxon/Mobil et. al

On the other hand, if you believe that we invaded Iraq to rid its oppressed people of a brutal dictator, to find and secure WMD, fight the terrorists “over there” and to bring freedom and democracy to the Iraqi people, I say you’re badly misguided….yet this is what we are told is the noble cause. Hussein is gone, there were no WMD, freedom and democracy brought to you at the point of a gun is neither free nor is it democratic and the current “terrorist” element in Babylon, while clearly created by our very presence, is the new reality in the Muslim world, and nothing can change that now.

An expedient withdrawal would prove that some of the Bush administration’s arguments for invading had some validity, but we both know that they didn’t. So we stay and thousands more die. Insanity.

People like you need to step up and oppose this nonsense instead of burying your head in the sand and pretending further occupation is going to make things better for either Iraqis or Americans in the long-term. It won’t. It needs to stop, now.

]]> By: Marie http://thinkprogress.org/2005/08/21/hagel-problems/comment-page-2/#comment-106808 Marie Mon, 22 Aug 2005 14:00:49 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/?p=1613#comment-106808 Difficult as it may be, I think it is time for ALL Democrats to unite (yes, unite!) and admit that those who voted for the war were MISLED - put the blame on Bushie, who gave years-old intel to the committees, as well as false info to the entire congress and the world. Admit it was wrong, apologize for being gullible, vow never to fall for anything like that again, and then declare that a Democratic congress elected in 2006, will get the troops out, and begin to repair the damage done to our name in the world. A little humility goes a long way. Anyone see “Dead Wrong” last night? Difficult as it may be, I think it is time for ALL Democrats to unite (yes, unite!) and admit that those who voted for the war were MISLED – put the blame on Bushie, who gave years-old intel to the committees, as well as false info to the entire congress and the world. Admit it was wrong, apologize for being gullible, vow never to fall for anything like that again, and then declare that a Democratic congress elected in 2006, will get the troops out, and begin to repair the damage done to our name in the world. A little humility goes a long way.
Anyone see “Dead Wrong” last night?

]]> By: Dartanyon http://thinkprogress.org/2005/08/21/hagel-problems/comment-page-2/#comment-106789 Dartanyon Mon, 22 Aug 2005 13:32:28 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/?p=1613#comment-106789 It may come down to the classic "lesser of two evils." Vote for Jebby or vote for Hillary. Then, it's a no brainer. It may come down to the classic “lesser of two evils.” Vote for Jebby or vote for Hillary. Then, it’s a no brainer.

]]> By: Devin Leonard http://thinkprogress.org/2005/08/21/hagel-problems/comment-page-2/#comment-106633 Devin Leonard Mon, 22 Aug 2005 12:40:58 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/?p=1613#comment-106633 It is time for the Democratic party to unify on Iraq, and take a stand. John Kerry and Joe Biden are two of my favorite guys in the DNC. Both of them are correct about needing more troops in Iraq. However there is a problem with that...IT WON'T HAPPEN. The President is NOT going to up troop levels, and Americans wouldn't except it anyways. The President has messed this thing up so bad, that at this point if we don't win in Iraq, we are going to have a terrorist base in Iraq that will make Afghanistan look like a picnic. I served four years as a Force Recon Marine. I served in Kosovo and Sierra Leone. That is hardly the same thing as serving in Iraq or Afghanistan, but serving in ANY warzone is enough to learn a few things about combating insurgents (Especially in Sierra leone, where we guarded the embassy from rebel Militias). The best plan I can see is what Biden has reccommended. namely sending Iraqi soldiers to places like Jordan and Egypt where they can be trained in relitive safety. It does no good to train Iraqi police and soldiers when they get blown up at the recruiting station. Second, we need to do anything and everything we can to get other countries to help with troops. Now, that may not be possible, but if we don't at least try, we won't know will we. If none of those things are possible, then we need to figure out a way to get our soldiers home. Four more years of US Soldiers dying in a pointless war is four years that Americans just won't support. And what happens if a REAL crisis comes up in four years that we REALLY have to counter, we won;t have the ability to do it with 100,000 soldiers in Iraq (unless we reinstate the draft, which I don't think is an option). If Democrats want to take back this country, the Senate, House, and Prsidency...they are going to have to sit down and come up with an alternate strategy or a better one. We have a real chance here, let's not blow it. PS. The one think Democrates need to do this week, is counter what the President will say about Iraq being akin to Sept. 11th. Iraq nor anyone in Iraq had anything to do with Sept 11th. In fact the two guys most responsible for that atrocity are still running around Afghanistan, thanks to George Bush not finishing the job there. Iraq is the way it is now, cause Bush invaded the country without knowing how to do the mission...Democrates need to make sure America knows that Iraq is a problem Bush gave us, Sept. 11th is a problem Bin Laden gave us, two different things. It is time for the Democratic party to unify on Iraq, and take a stand.
John Kerry and Joe Biden are two of my favorite guys in the DNC. Both of them are correct about needing more troops in Iraq. However there is a problem with that…IT WON’T HAPPEN.
The President is NOT going to up troop levels, and Americans wouldn’t except it anyways.
The President has messed this thing up so bad, that at this point if we don’t win in Iraq, we are going to have a terrorist base in Iraq that will make Afghanistan look like a picnic.
I served four years as a Force Recon Marine. I served in Kosovo and Sierra Leone. That is hardly the same thing as serving in Iraq or Afghanistan, but serving in ANY warzone is enough to learn a few things about combating insurgents (Especially in Sierra leone, where we guarded the embassy from rebel Militias).
The best plan I can see is what Biden has reccommended. namely sending Iraqi soldiers to places like Jordan and Egypt where they can be trained in relitive safety. It does no good to train Iraqi police and soldiers when they get blown up at the recruiting station.
Second, we need to do anything and everything we can to get other countries to help with troops.
Now, that may not be possible, but if we don’t at least try, we won’t know will we.
If none of those things are possible, then we need to figure out a way to get our soldiers home.
Four more years of US Soldiers dying in a pointless war is four years that Americans just won’t support. And what happens if a REAL crisis comes up in four years that we REALLY have to counter, we won;t have the ability to do it with 100,000 soldiers in Iraq (unless we reinstate the draft, which I don’t think is an option).
If Democrats want to take back this country, the Senate, House, and Prsidency…they are going to have to sit down and come up with an alternate strategy or a better one. We have a real chance here, let’s not blow it.

PS. The one think Democrates need to do this week, is counter what the President will say about Iraq being akin to Sept. 11th.
Iraq nor anyone in Iraq had anything to do with Sept 11th. In fact the two guys most responsible for that atrocity are still running around Afghanistan, thanks to George Bush not finishing the job there.
Iraq is the way it is now, cause Bush invaded the country without knowing how to do the mission…Democrates need to make sure America knows that Iraq is a problem Bush gave us, Sept. 11th is a problem Bin Laden gave us, two different things.

]]> By: Devin Leonard http://thinkprogress.org/2005/08/21/hagel-problems/comment-page-2/#comment-106628 Devin Leonard Mon, 22 Aug 2005 12:39:51 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/?p=1613#comment-106628 It is time for the Democratic party to unify on Iraq, and take a stand. John Kerry and Joe Biden are two of my favorite guys in the DNC. Both of them are correct about needing more troops in Iraq. However there is a problem with that...IT WON'T HAPPEN. The President is NOT going to up troop levels, and Americans wouldn't except it anyways. The President has messed this thing up so bad, that at this point if we don't win in Iraq, we are going to have a terrorist base in Iraq that will make Afghanistan look like a picnic. I served four years as a Force Recon Marine. I served in Kosovo and Sierra Leone. That is hardly the same thing as serving in Iraq or Afghanistan, but serving in ANY warzone is enough to learn a few things about combating insurgents (Especially in Sieera leone, where he guarded the embassy from rebel Militias). The best plan I can see is what Biden has reccommended. namely sending Iraqi soldiers to places like Jordan and Egypt where they can be trained in relitive safety. It does no good to train Iraqi police and soldiers when they get blown up at the recruiting station. Second, we need to do anything and everything we can to get other countries to help with troops. Now, that may not be possible, but if we don't at least try, we won't know will we. If none of those things are possible, then we need to figure out a way to get our soldiers home. Four more years of US Soldiers dying in a pointless war is four years that Americans just won't support. And what happens if a REAL crisis comes up in four years that we REALLY have to counter, we won;t have the ability to do it with 100,000 soldiers in Iraq (unless we reinstate the draft, which I don't think is an option). If Democrats want to take back this country, the Senate, House, and Prsidency...they are going to have to sit down and come up with an alternate strategy or a better one. We have a real chance here, let's not blow it. PS. The one think Democrates need to do this week, is counter what the President will say about Iraq being akin to Sept. 11th. Iraq nor anyone in Iraq had anything to do with Sept 11th. In fact the two guys most responsible for that atrocity are still running around Afghanistan, thanks to George Bush not finishing the job there. Iraq is the way it is now, cause Bush invaded the country without knowing how to do the mission...Democrates need to make sure America knows that Iraq is a problem Bush gave us, Sept. 11th is a problem Bin Laden gave us, two different things. It is time for the Democratic party to unify on Iraq, and take a stand.
John Kerry and Joe Biden are two of my favorite guys in the DNC. Both of them are correct about needing more troops in Iraq. However there is a problem with that…IT WON’T HAPPEN.
The President is NOT going to up troop levels, and Americans wouldn’t except it anyways.
The President has messed this thing up so bad, that at this point if we don’t win in Iraq, we are going to have a terrorist base in Iraq that will make Afghanistan look like a picnic.
I served four years as a Force Recon Marine. I served in Kosovo and Sierra Leone. That is hardly the same thing as serving in Iraq or Afghanistan, but serving in ANY warzone is enough to learn a few things about combating insurgents (Especially in Sieera leone, where he guarded the embassy from rebel Militias).
The best plan I can see is what Biden has reccommended. namely sending Iraqi soldiers to places like Jordan and Egypt where they can be trained in relitive safety. It does no good to train Iraqi police and soldiers when they get blown up at the recruiting station.
Second, we need to do anything and everything we can to get other countries to help with troops.
Now, that may not be possible, but if we don’t at least try, we won’t know will we.
If none of those things are possible, then we need to figure out a way to get our soldiers home.
Four more years of US Soldiers dying in a pointless war is four years that Americans just won’t support. And what happens if a REAL crisis comes up in four years that we REALLY have to counter, we won;t have the ability to do it with 100,000 soldiers in Iraq (unless we reinstate the draft, which I don’t think is an option).
If Democrats want to take back this country, the Senate, House, and Prsidency…they are going to have to sit down and come up with an alternate strategy or a better one. We have a real chance here, let’s not blow it.

PS. The one think Democrates need to do this week, is counter what the President will say about Iraq being akin to Sept. 11th.
Iraq nor anyone in Iraq had anything to do with Sept 11th. In fact the two guys most responsible for that atrocity are still running around Afghanistan, thanks to George Bush not finishing the job there.
Iraq is the way it is now, cause Bush invaded the country without knowing how to do the mission…Democrates need to make sure America knows that Iraq is a problem Bush gave us, Sept. 11th is a problem Bin Laden gave us, two different things.

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