BREAKING: Bush’s Latest Attack Against Cindy Sheehan
BREAKING: Bush’s Latest Attack Against Cindy Sheehan
Speaking in Idaho a few minutes ago, Bush argued that moms like Cindy Sheehan are a threat to freedom:
There are few things more difficult in life than seeing a loved one go off to war, and here in Idaho, a mom named Tammy Pruitt…knows that feeling six times over.
Tammy has four sons serving in Iraq right now with the Idaho National Guard — Eric, Evan, Greg, and Jeff. Last year, her husband Leon and another son Aaron returned from Iraq where they helped train Iraqi firefighters in Mosul.
Tammy says this — and I want you to hear this — “I know that if something happens to one of the boys, they would leave this world doing what they believe, what they think is right for our country. And I guess you couldn’t ask for a better way of life than giving it for something you believe in.”
America lives in freedom because of families like the Pruitts.
For more on the administration’s efforts to demonize its war critics, check out today’s Progress Report.
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Political suicide in progress.
August 24th, 2005 at 1:43 pmJump! Jump!!
August 24th, 2005 at 1:43 pmI am nearly fed up with this. Will anyone take this man to task? Will anyone really do it? Is there anyone with the courage to stand up to this?
August 24th, 2005 at 1:49 pmYes, death is a great way of life. Way to sell it, George.
August 24th, 2005 at 1:50 pmThere is nothing in that quote that supports your lead sentence Judd. All he says is that families like the Pruitts help keep us free (which you can't really argue with) -- doesn't say anything about moms like Cindy being a threat to freedom.
If he has said that somewhere else, please advise.
August 24th, 2005 at 1:52 pm"Oh, God, where are my democratic leaders? Where is John Kerry? Where is the "unhinged" Ted Kennedy? Do we dems have anybody that will support 61% of americans that are now scared of our "dear leaders?"
Surly Bernie Sanders can step up to the plate?
August 24th, 2005 at 1:53 pmBush has two daughters who are basking in Washington's social scene. Why aren't they on their way to Iraq?
August 24th, 2005 at 1:53 pmIf America lives in freedom because of families like the Pruitts, we live in freedom in spite of families like the Bushes.
August 24th, 2005 at 1:56 pmI think the insinuation is that Ms. Pruitt isn't "complaining" and she has 6 people in harms way. Of course the difference would be that she hasn't had any of the killed. The important story is the one a few inches down, where we see that 68 of our bravest have died since our Dear Leader decided to start "recreating" and "going on with his own life" in texas. It's kinda interesting, being that those 68 will not get to "go on with their lives."
How about that "compassionate convervitism?"
August 24th, 2005 at 1:56 pmSomeone needs to remind the President that Cindy Sheehan is simply a private citizen and doesn't reflect the views of the current administration.
Evil(tm) Evolutionist
August 24th, 2005 at 1:56 pmThere is nothing in that quote that supports your lead sentence Judd. All he says is that families like the Pruitts help keep us free (which you can’t really argue with) — doesn’t say anything about moms like Cindy being a threat to freedom.
If he has said that somewhere else, please advise.
Comment by Concerned Conservative — August 24, 2005 @ 1:52 pm
Are you as critical of your side's distortions and rhetoric? This is politics. Don't you like it?
August 24th, 2005 at 1:56 pmAll he says is that families like the Pruitts help keep us free (which you can’t really argue with)
The hell we can't. The Pruitts are cannon fodder in Bush's grab for resources and power. That does nothing to keep us free. In fact, you could say that it helps work against freedom, by giving Bush a way to deflect criticism and stifle dissent. If there were no troops, Bush wouldn't be able to cower behind them.
August 24th, 2005 at 1:58 pm"America lives in freedom because of families like the Pruitts."--GWBush
That statement implies that people like Cindy Sheehan, who are not happy that her son died for an undefined "noble cause" and who question Dear Leader jeopardize our freedoms.
August 24th, 2005 at 1:59 pmlet's go back and see her when one or two of them are killed.
August 24th, 2005 at 2:01 pmHas Bush asked his daughters to serve? I hear there are great bars in the Green Zone.
August 24th, 2005 at 2:03 pmFree to make war on innocents who never attacked us? That's not freedom, that's totalitarianism.
August 24th, 2005 at 2:03 pmOne thing to remember is bush is such a coward. He can't faced Cindy or anyone of us and say that,he has to run to one of the two states that still support.
He is such chump change! Plus when he saids this in a pro state it makes him look like a real leader,NOT ;)
August 24th, 2005 at 2:04 pmNo one is buying his crap.
August 24th, 2005 at 2:04 pmSomeone get them the hell outta their before they have a chance to create another 'terrorist attack'.
Dot, I'm fine with politics but I'm not wild about distortions on either side. But you're probably right that I'm not as critical of "my side" (I'm more of a Libertarian than Republican).
Gary, if the armed forces of the U.S. aren't in place to keep us free and safe from harm then we might as well get rid of them now.
August 24th, 2005 at 2:05 pmOf course one could argue whether "families like the Pruitts help keep us free".
The willingness of citizens to enter military service, to kill or be killed at the (unilateral) behest of a kleptocratic regime, has nothing to do with keeping us "free", whatever that may mean.
And we're running low on fresh meat, by the way; soon there will be new meaning to the rhetorical question, "Suppose they gave a war and nobody came?"
August 24th, 2005 at 2:05 pmThis is at worst an extremely veiled attack on Sheehan - I can well imagine something similar from FDR during WWII or Clinton during the Bosnian conflict. The editorializing in this post is unjustified. Bush does so many awful things that there's no cause to scrape the bottom of the barrel like this.
August 24th, 2005 at 2:06 pm"Will anyone take this man to task? Will anyone really do it? Is there anyone with the courage to stand up to this?
Yep -- Yep, Gary Hart
August 24th, 2005 at 2:07 pmCC:
I interpreted this as a not-so-subtle criticism of Cindy Sheehan. If you choose to interpret it differently, that's fine. But I think in the context of what's been happening the last few weeks, my interpretation is completely legitmate and almost certainly correct.
August 24th, 2005 at 2:07 pmIdaho doesn't support Bush.
Bill Moyer, 73, wears a "Bullshit Protector" flap over his ear while President George W. Bush addresses the Veterans of Foreign Wars. (AP Photo/Douglas C. Pizac)
His "support" is an illusion.
August 24th, 2005 at 2:07 pm"America lives in freedom because of families like the Pruitts." - George Bush
Is that why Bush avoided Vietnam and went AWOL for 18 while hiding in the Nat'l Guard?
August 24th, 2005 at 2:08 pmOur Armed Forces in Iraq don't make us free anymore than deploying them to Viet Nam did years ago.
August 24th, 2005 at 2:10 pmOK Judd. I guess we can agree that we view this one differently. Thanks for the reply.
August 24th, 2005 at 2:10 pmThe argument that leaving Iraq will show us as being 'weak' is complete horsemerde.
What makes us look weak is re-selecting a known liar and moron and NOT standing up to him.
It is WE the people who must show the rest of the world that we won't tolerate an unelected fraud any more. By getting rid of this bastard, we the people can repair the damage.
August 24th, 2005 at 2:10 pmconcerned conservative:
what, exactly, are you concerned about?
August 24th, 2005 at 2:12 pmAudience applauds Galley_Queen.
August 24th, 2005 at 2:12 pmBush is drumming up examples to try to counter and demean Sheehan's statements and cause. This justifies the headline and editorializing. Read between the lines.
August 24th, 2005 at 2:12 pmConcerned Conservative -
August 24th, 2005 at 2:12 pmConsider the timing of the President's comments - on the heals of his comments yesterday that Ms. Sheehan doesn't reflect the opinion of a majority of military families (a dubious and unsupported proposition). In that context, he is clearly laying out more of his "you are either for us or for the terrorists" mindset. More importantly, as to his claim that the war in Iraq is meant to protect our freedoms - are you any more or less free now that we invaded an occupied Iraq. Would you have been equally free had we not done so? I think the answer is obvious - the War in Iraq has had no impact whatsoever on the freedom of the Amercian people.
I interpreted this as a not-so-subtle criticism of Cindy Sheehan.
Judd,
You are just supposed to re-inforce and amplify Dear Leader's edicts, not interpret them.
August 24th, 2005 at 2:12 pmIf Cindy Sheehan speaks for America, why then aren't there hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people in Crawford? I don't think she speaks for most of us as much as the left and the media would like you to believe.
August 24th, 2005 at 2:12 pmcan well imagine something similar from FDR during WWII or Clinton during the Bosnian conflict.
How many US KIA did we have during the Bosnian conflict, again?
The editorializing in this post is unjustified.
*Gasp!* Editorializing?! In a blog?!
August 24th, 2005 at 2:12 pm"It is the practice of despots to use a part of people to keep the rest in order."
-----Thomas Jefferson
August 24th, 2005 at 2:13 pmIn reply to George W. Bush's comments, made in regard to Cindy Sheehan. Where ‘Monkey Boy’ stated that, "Moms like Cindy Sheehan are a threat to freedom."
As the Brits would say to President Bush's illogical rantings.
Bollocks George, absolute Bollocks.
August 24th, 2005 at 2:14 pmCC - Bush has just rephrased the old "Your either with us or against us" rhetoric. It's retarded. I'll bet Rove and his right wing conservative's in training were on the phone for days trying to find a family like the Pruitts. It's great to see that more than half of Americans are now "against us".
This particular quote from Bush did not say "Sheehan is a threat to freedom" BUT HE HAS SAID RECENTLY THAT PEOPLE LIKE SHEEHAN ARE A THREAT TO FREEDOM.
August 24th, 2005 at 2:14 pmconcerned conservative:
what, exactly, are you concerned about?
Comment by frenchy lamour — August 24, 2005 @ 2:12 pm
No offense but I think he's concerned about appearing French, Mr. Lamour.
August 24th, 2005 at 2:15 pm"See? These folks don't want to ask me questions! And they're good people!"
That's not an answer to the question.
That's a cheap evasion.
Hide and evade.
Cindy isn't standing before you so you'll bring the troops home today, or resign, or assassinate Pat Robertson, George.
She wants you to meet with her and answer her questions.
Why won't you do that?
What kind of President won't do that?
Hide some more, George. Evade some more. Go to another staged fundraiser and make another speech.
Hide and evade.
You little weasel.
August 24th, 2005 at 2:15 pm#
If Cindy Sheehan speaks for America, why then aren’t there hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people in Crawford? I don’t think she speaks for most of us as much as the left and the media would like you to believe.
Comment by Red — August 24, 2005 @ 2:12 pm
They have jobs? But the Freepers will be there.
August 24th, 2005 at 2:17 pmCC, Several reports have shown that the American involvement in Iraq have recruited people for the other side.
Given that Iraq has become a real world training camp to train people in Urban warfare, and that the same tactics have now been taken to Afghanistan, why do American troops in Iraq make us safer? In fact it is easy to argue the case that they don't.
This doesn't mean that we should get rid of the Armed Forces, jsut that they shouldn't be in Iraq. There is a big difference between using the Armed Forces defensively and using them offensively.
Z.
August 24th, 2005 at 2:18 pmNot far from the truth, Janitors!
August 24th, 2005 at 2:18 pmHey Red,
Why are you and chimpy so afraid of Cindy?
August 24th, 2005 at 2:20 pmPolitical suicide in progress.
Jump! Jump!!
Comment by Dot — August 24, 2005 @ 1:43 pm
Everybody, nice and loud... on 3:
August 24th, 2005 at 2:20 pm...1...2...JUMP!
Jobs, the price of gas, and the threat of being mowed down by Bush supporters in pickup trucks.
August 24th, 2005 at 2:22 pmYou make a good point Zwack, though I think it is hard to say whether we are safer or more at-risk with troops in Iraq. Bush made a call that "the best defense is a good offense" in this case -- he might turn out to be right yet. The jury is still out.
August 24th, 2005 at 2:23 pmHey Red, they keep coming. And "they" are not only in Crawford, but here in TN as well. I was there. The media would like you to believe that the story is only in Crawford - not true. It is alive and kicking here in one of the reddest states around. Get ready - change is gonna' come.
Silly man.
August 24th, 2005 at 2:24 pmCC,
August 24th, 2005 at 2:25 pmWhat about OBL?
What possible excuse can there be for leaving
him out there while attacking Iraq, which BTW
did not have WMD.
The whole thing is logical BS and I think
you know it.
Bush is starting to sound like more of a real creep that ever. He's good at mocking people, and that's essentially what he's doing here. "See, Cindy, I can play too."
Problem is, he's the only one it's a "game" to.
August 24th, 2005 at 2:26 pmGary, if the armed forces of the U.S. aren’t in place to keep us free and safe from harm then we might as well get rid of them now.
Sounds good to me.
You do know how the founding fathers felt about standing armies, right?
August 24th, 2005 at 2:27 pmCC, safer? Jury still out? Ask the people of London if they feel safer. And don't give me that old talking point that the bombers are nut jobs. The interviews with the families of these men clearly state that they were angry about Iraq. Iraq and the US/UK invasion.
August 24th, 2005 at 2:27 pmYou make a good point Zwack, though I think it is hard to say whether we are safer or more at-risk with troops in Iraq. Bush made a call that “the best defense is a good offense†in this case — he might turn out to be right yet. The jury is still out.
Comment by Concerned Conservative
What are you talking about? This is delusional thinking. The same kind of thinking that painted Bush onto his own flimsily constructed rhetorical ledge from which he must now jump to his own political death because he can no longer skulk back in the window. The only calls Bush made were to Poppy, whom he ignored, and Cheney and Co. and Rove, whom he should have ignored. The jury is in. You are another cowboy at the dude ranch.
August 24th, 2005 at 2:30 pmCC,
The jury is still out? What jury, the Michael Jackson jury? The OJ jury? As a coallition of the indebted member, ask Britain f they are safer after our invasion of Iraq?
August 24th, 2005 at 2:31 pmP and P
You are the silly man- this is yet another attempt by the left to bruise Bush and it won't work! You can't realize it, but this movement is destroying your party. Democrats will never be trusted with national security in this country again, elections prove that. And don't give me the excuse that Bush stole the election last year, I'm tired of hearing that crap. Next year's midterm elections will speak volumes and you will see again why I am right.
August 24th, 2005 at 2:32 pmConcerned Conservative said: "I’m more of a Libertarian than Republican)."
If I could get a dollar for everytime I've heard the "I'm more a Libertarian than Republican" phrase in the past month...
Funny how so many people are disavowing they are Republicans.
August 24th, 2005 at 2:32 pmI feel sorry for Mrs. Pruitt. What else is she going to say about her sons and husband? She's scared shitless for them?
She reminds me of those suicide bombers' moms--reduced to muttering whatever crapola the neighbors want to hear about how proud they are of their children.
August 24th, 2005 at 2:32 pmGary, if the armed forces of the U.S. aren’t in place to keep us free and safe from harm then we might as well get rid of them now.
I hear the Islamofascist navy has just put to sea with it's mighty invasion task force and fleet of aircraft carriers and assault ships and troop carriers. We are all doomed! Women! Buy your Burkas now!
August 24th, 2005 at 2:33 pmAnd don’t give me the excuse that Bush stole the election last year, I’m tired of hearing that crap.
Too bad for you, as it happens to be true.
August 24th, 2005 at 2:33 pmSorry Terry, I'm not buying the argument that if we just pull out the terrorists will leave us alone. They have already demonstrated the foolishness of that assumption. We left them pretty much alone even after they attacked us (first World Trade Center bombing, USS COLE, etc.) and that didn't prevent 9/11.
Both the UK and US need to do a better of finding and clamping down on the terror cells within our own borders, as well as beating them down over in the Middle East.
August 24th, 2005 at 2:34 pmAre you now, or have you ever been a member of the Republican party?
August 24th, 2005 at 2:34 pmThe world is NOT safer because King George invaded Iraq. Osama is still on the loose. North Korea remains a true threat. The next generation of terrorists are being trained in live fire exercises against our military. And a former secular country has been turned into a squabbling in-fighting Muslim theocracy.
Now King George wants the world to know that it's a good thing to send boys and girls off to die in the sweltering heat and sands of a country that couldn't attack the US or Israel, even it Iraq had wanted to?
This is sick. This is really sick.
I truely hope this is the highly public political suicide of this elitist baffoon.
August 24th, 2005 at 2:34 pmTo Die For Something You Believe In
If there is no higher calling for an American, than to fight and die in Iraq, then why aren't Bush's daughters in Iraq?
August 24th, 2005 at 2:35 pmRobert, I don't doubt that there are some moving away from the R party, but I have never been a registered R. Always have been an I.
August 24th, 2005 at 2:36 pmRed, your Dear Leader is having a bad month in the polls. Even with Chuck Hagel's ESS and Diebold's fingers on the scale, these numbers spell doom for the Christo-fascist/Neo-con alliance: http://www.surveyusa.com/50StatePOTUS0805.htm
So are you right or just right-arm-raised?
August 24th, 2005 at 2:36 pm~GARY QUALLS OF "FORT QUALLS" BUMBLES THROUGH VINDICTIVE SHEEHAN SMEAR.
~KEITH OLBERMANN CALLS HIM ON IT.
On MSNBC's "Countdown" Monday night, Gary Qualls, Cindy Sheehan's counterpart at the new, pro-war "Fort Qualls" down the road from her, bumbled Homer Simpson-like through a smear against Sheehan. He slimed her for "forsaking" her family while she's in Crawford:
QUALLS: "I‘m not out here all the time...I stay with my family. I haven‘t forsaken them. I will not abandon them...I have not left halfway across the country like Ms. Sheehan has, and she has forsaken her own family. I cannot do that...My priorities and responsibilities as a parent are important."
Olbermann didn't think much of Quall's sliming.
OLBERMANN: "To be fair to her, sir, I mean, her surviving kids are adults, and she went home last week to take care of her mother, who had a stroke. Is that fair of you to say that about her?"
QUALLS: (Qualls is speechless, and after an embarrassingly long pause, Qualls changes subjects and goes on to make the claim that "Everybody else in her family, they do not even support what she is doing," which is yet another fabrication.)
Funny thing is, Qualls had hugged and chatted with Sheehan a week earlier, just days before the GOP got hold of him. Here's the photos:
http://donkeyod.blogspot.com/2005_08_07_donkeyod_archive.html
For more on Quall's duplicity and political motivations:
http://www.reachm.com/amstreet/archives/2005/08/22/cold-qualls-two
If the Right was looking for an honest, articulate and persuasive mouthpiece to foil Sheehan, they have failed miserably on all counts.
August 24th, 2005 at 2:36 pmRed,
To save yourself some time and fingertip callous, just type "Rebuttlickin'Talking Point/Rebuttal #2" next time. Thanks.
August 24th, 2005 at 2:37 pmWe left them pretty much alone even after they attacked us (first World Trade Center bombing, USS COLE, etc.) and that didn’t prevent 9/11.
He just doesn't get it. They hate him for his ignorance and hubris, but he does live in a country where he is free to be that stupid. In other countries he might be put to death for it. So, in a way, they do hate us for our "freedumbs".
August 24th, 2005 at 2:37 pm#56 Red - Too bad Bush didn't follow up on the recommendations from the Clinton Administration. If he had, he would have been prepared for 911. With Bush, it's not just Americans that are losing freedom but he has put the whole world in jeopardy. Just ask the dead in Spain and England. Bruising Bush - what a dumb ass statement - look at the polls if you can see through your butt.
August 24th, 2005 at 2:38 pmCC if you knew why they attacked the U.S. we might be able to have a meaningful debate about policy, but since you don't, this is an exercise in futility and a complete waste of time.
August 24th, 2005 at 2:39 pmWe have already killed more innocent Iraqis than innocent Americans that died on 9/11. I think they might have actually attained the moral high ground now, thanks to Bushco.
August 24th, 2005 at 2:42 pmPlease Janitor, tell me why they attacked us.
August 24th, 2005 at 2:43 pmI notice these theads get sort of tiresome by about
August 24th, 2005 at 2:43 pm#50 (not the post, just the number of posts).
Trolls have wandered off to their favorite spin-points....
But there is usally a new post to start on by then!
"CC if you knew why they attacked the U.S. we might be able to have a meaningful debate about policy, but since you don’t, this is an exercise in futility and a complete waste of time."
As is the "war" in Iraq.
Good point sanitation engineer.
August 24th, 2005 at 2:44 pmWhere does Bush say Sheehan is a threat to freedom?
Do you people really want to have this fight? Sheehan is on record calling her son's murderers freedom fighters. Do you want to battle over this broad?
You people don't get it. Sheehan will prove to be the biggest PR disaster for the left since John Kerry exploited his war record for President. But please, keep it up.
August 24th, 2005 at 2:48 pmIt's the cognitive dissonance.
If Tammy Pruitt actually allowed herself to believe for one minute that her sons are at risk over in Mosul for no good reason, she'd rip Bush's throat out.
And why aren't the Bush twins there? I think it was Jon Stewart who said, "Hey, we want to win this thing."
August 24th, 2005 at 2:48 pm"Bush made a call that “the best defense is a good offense†in this case — he might turn out to be right yet. The jury is still out."
So, the alternative to invading Iraq would have been battling the Republican Guard on the streets of Des Moines? This is insane!
By this logic, I suppose it only makes sense to invade Iran and North Korea. You know, that best defense/good offense thing. What on earth are the Chickenhawks waiting for?
August 24th, 2005 at 2:48 pmCC - (1) ATTEMP to bruise? uh um
August 24th, 2005 at 2:49 pm(2) You don't know my party affiliation.
(3) I am not a man.
(4) All of you reds keep telling us to watch out for 06, but you and I both don't believe that. You are scared and so is the monkey. Denial is helpful, but I think we both know where this country is going. It's okay, we are a loving bunch and when you come over from the dark side, we will be here.
(5) I'm on the fence as to how much of the Diebold debacle helped and how much people are just stupid and believe what they want - more denial.
Please Janitor, tell me why they attacked us.
Comment by Concerned Conservative — August 24, 2005 @ 2:43 pm
I just told you. They hate our freedumbs. Are you really that obtuse? That stupid?
August 24th, 2005 at 2:50 pmNortheast, I think you meant to say since John Kerry "inflated" his war record...
August 24th, 2005 at 2:51 pm#81 - thank you. And left out key parts of his war record like where he admitted to war crimes on national television in 1971. But, we're smearing him if we bring that up.
August 24th, 2005 at 2:52 pmCapt. Video
"Bush’s daughters sure are not willing to give their lives for something they believe in. The Bushs adhere to the policy that going to war “isn’t for people like us.†Getting oneself killed in wars is for the commoners, not for the political elite.
Bush may be able to fool some of the people all of the time, like the Pruitts, but the Bush daughters are too smart to be fooled."
Hey Jenna & not-Jenna, fool me once shame on you. You can fool some of the people some of the time....fool me twice.....Oh hell, you can't be fooled again.
August 24th, 2005 at 2:52 pmExactly, Corinne. Believing the rosy red version is much more comfortable. And we know how the sheeple desperately need to stay in their comfort zone. It would just hurt too much to open up their eyes. It is sad.
August 24th, 2005 at 2:53 pmP&P, I don't think I posted the one you are responding to...
August 24th, 2005 at 2:53 pmConservatives will shred Sheehan and enjoy doing it. Understand - I will enjoy it. Freedom of speech is a two way street.
August 24th, 2005 at 2:54 pmDilEnema,
Read the numerous posts prior to when you showed up. Do your own homework.
August 24th, 2005 at 2:54 pmP & P - yes, we need to believe there is a constant threat of terror to feel comfortable. Do you even read what you write?
August 24th, 2005 at 2:55 pmAt least Kerry had a war record. As did McCain. As did Hagel. And what do these gentlemen have in common beside being Senators and Veterans. They get smeared by Chickenhawk republicans.
August 24th, 2005 at 2:56 pmWhere does Bush say Sheehan is a threat to freedom?
Do you people really want to have this fight? Sheehan is on record calling her son’s murderers freedom fighters. Do you want to battle over this broad?
You have no more idea who is fighting in Iraq than Bushco does. Some of them are just Iraqis who want the invaders out of their homeland. Those are freedom fighters. Cindy may or may not have said that. I wouldn't trust a word out of your mouth. One thing about Cindy, she's just a mom who has been getting an education, something you sorely lack. She's not an expert or a politician or even a trained spokesperson and she is kicking the collective asses of one of the most formidable PR and propaganda mill operations to spread bullshit and lies since Pravda or the Nazis.
You people don’t get it. Sheehan will prove to be the biggest PR disaster for the left since John Kerry exploited his war record for President. But please, keep it up.
Jump! JUMP!!
August 24th, 2005 at 2:57 pmI am like Cindy Sheehan, a father with two boys of draft age. I opposed the idea of this war from the start. Terrorism is a problem that must be dealt with using the tools of investigation and policing, not the military. These soldiers dying in Iraq have died for NO GOOD REASON. I am not an enemy of any bodies freedom, and anybody who says I am IS A GODDAMN LIAR, and a MORON.
August 24th, 2005 at 2:57 pm#89 - Noticably missing is Clinton idiot. Thanks to him W didn't need to serve. He beat two REAL war heroes who didn't exploit their record.
No one has smeared Hagel and McCain over their war record. Policy differences, yes, war record no. Kerry was smeared because he brought it up in the first place and it was basically a LIE.
August 24th, 2005 at 2:58 pmI'm just lost on why people like Red and Concerned Conservative (I guess if he/she is concerned about things then they can't be too brain-dead) are supporting this war. I mean how much evidence does one need to know that this war is a fraud? There is simply no justification for this war. It has been founded on a lie from the get-go. No connection to terrorism, no WMD, no democracy going on, completely mis-managed from the start. Really, how f'n stupid are you people?
August 24th, 2005 at 2:58 pmDot - Cindy said that and CBS covered it up. Thanks to your arch-nemisis, Fox, it will be splattered all over the news further discrediting Sheehan and the liars at CBS.
JUMP - you liberals have already done that.
August 24th, 2005 at 2:59 pmNortheast, I think you meant to say since John Kerry “inflated†his war record…
Comment by Concerned Conservative — August 24, 2005 @ 2:51 pm
Now we know where this guy stands. He just tipped his hand. TROLL>
August 24th, 2005 at 3:00 pm#93 - whatever. Not worth arguing about AGAIN. Were there and we have to win. When you realize that, you may actually come back from the political dead.
August 24th, 2005 at 3:00 pm#95 - Did John Kerry and his allies try to hide the fact that he admitted to committing war crimes? Yes or no?
August 24th, 2005 at 3:01 pm#95 - Did John Kerry and his allies try to hide the fact that he admitted to committing war crimes? Yes or no?
Have you stopped beating your wife, Neddy? Yes or no?
August 24th, 2005 at 3:03 pmNortheast, what are the conditions for victory in Iraq? What will winning look like? When Bush proclaims "Mission Accomplished?"
August 24th, 2005 at 3:03 pmGary - actually, it was Kerry's divorce records that were sealed from his first marriage. Apparently, the heiress chaser had something to hide. Maybe he was like Jack Ryan in Illinois.
August 24th, 2005 at 3:04 pmDemos wrote, "Bush has two daughters who are basking in Washington’s social scene."
Isn't Washington’s social scene punishment enough?
August 24th, 2005 at 3:05 pmNED, You are wrong about McCain.
August 24th, 2005 at 3:05 pmRoveCo did smear him with "unstable POW"
rumors.
You may be a nice guy but your GOP leaders
are real creeps.
Didn't answer my question at all. Typical.
August 24th, 2005 at 3:05 pm#99 - when the Iraqi security forces are established, we can begin withdrawl. Regardless, the US will always have a presence in the Middle East in light of what happened on 9/11.
August 24th, 2005 at 3:05 pmWhen I was a kid, the doctor, the priest and the president were authority figures I respected. Now, I know some doctors prescribe based on advice from profit hungry drug companies; some priests have been identified as pedophiles; and sometimes the president makes mistakes. The war in Iraq has been one big mistake. We do a disservice to perpetuate it.
August 24th, 2005 at 3:06 pmAmerica lives in freedom best when our military is not engaged in preemptive strikes over WMDs which were not there. "Fighting terrorists there so we don't have to fight them here" only works when you're dealing with an army of thousands, an army it would be difficult to ship across the seas. Wake up! It took 19 people in NYC and Washington, DC to kill thousands. It took 4 people in London to attack the transportation system. Suicide bombers can do huge damage. And we're giving terrorists hands on experience in Iraq. What a training opportunity for our enemies!!! What a mistake!
And if the president was serious about getting to the terrorists, why did he not continue to focus on Bin Laden. Why doesn't he do something about the Saudi support for terrorists? Why doesn't he secure our southern border? Why doesn't he push development of energy sources other than oil?
of course, Dubya had nothing to hide during the elections. he was just a good kid from a modest upbringing, a self-made man who never received a handout from anybody...
August 24th, 2005 at 3:07 pmThat's right JNo, just keep believing we're stupid. Must drive you guys crazy to keep losing to a bunch of idiots.
August 24th, 2005 at 3:07 pmThis just in from Captain Obvious:
Bush on Sheehan: "She doesn't represent the view of a lot of the families I have met with."
Well you won't meet with her and your brownshirts deploy in Secret Service garb to have anyone who might disagree with you thrown out of your tax-payer funded meetings. Sure, I bet all the people you meet agree with you... Can't fault you there, Einstein.
August 24th, 2005 at 3:09 pmCC,
August 24th, 2005 at 3:10 pmwhat concerns me is losing to a bunch of fundamentalist religious idiots. those are the most dangerous kind.
Gary - you said I beat my wife. Not worth answering, but a good time to point out what a hypocrite you are.
August 24th, 2005 at 3:10 pmGee CC, I still want to know why you and
August 24th, 2005 at 3:10 pmChimpy are so worried about Cindy.
If you are so on top of everything, why
are you here?
#53
Do you honestly believe we would be safer if we pulled out of Iraq. Check a story the msm won't tell you about. The Spanish govenment uncovered planned attacks by Al Qaeda AFTER they announced they would withdraw from Iraq. Wake up and actually get the truth instead of this dribble posted on sites like this one.
New-Home Sales Hit Record High in July
Terrorists Plotted More Bloodshed in Spain
NewsMax.com Wires
Friday, March 4, 2005
MADRID, Spain -- Islamic militants blamed for last year's commuter train bombings in Madrid were plotting more bloodshed - a string of suicide attacks in the months after the massacre, Spain's counterterrorism director told The Associated Press on Thursday.
The revelation adds a chilling what-if element to Spain's national trauma as it prepares to mark the anniversary of the March 11 bombings, the country's worst-ever terrorist attack.
August 24th, 2005 at 3:10 pmDon't pay attention to Ned. He thinks on his website that Sheehan should be terminated like Terri Schiavo. Not very nice that Ned.
August 24th, 2005 at 3:11 pm#109 - that's classic and explains alot. You people fear christianity more than you fear Islam. Pretty scary, but helps us out at the polls so ... THANKS.
August 24th, 2005 at 3:11 pm#113 - I'm glad you liked it.
August 24th, 2005 at 3:12 pmRed:
"Democrats will never be trusted with national security in this country again"
Put the playbook/talking notes script down - that was the silliest thing I've read in quite some time, even though it's rehashed from the 50's and 60's - thanx for the laugh. As for mid-term elections, you're right... the truth will come out then. And frankly, at this juncture, I think the public would vote for any party other than the one currently making a shambles and mockery of National Security.
August 24th, 2005 at 3:12 pmDo you think the FBI might be interested in that Ned?
August 24th, 2005 at 3:15 pmNortheast,
August 24th, 2005 at 3:17 pmYou're good at jumping to the defense of Christianity for no reason. I said that I fear fundamentalists, that goes for Christians and Muslims who believe that religion is only fire and brimstone. Simpleton...
#117 - because I asked someone to remove her feeding tube? I think they have more important things to worry about you fascist scumbag.
August 24th, 2005 at 3:17 pmGary - you said I beat my wife. Not worth answering, but a good time to point out what a hypocrite you are.
I didn't say anything, Neddy. I asked a question, just as valid as the one you asked right before it.
Oh, and incidentally, "a lot" is two words. Just trying to be helpful.
August 24th, 2005 at 3:18 pmI think NED is a Hannity wannabe.
August 24th, 2005 at 3:18 pmAnd I guess you couldn’t ask for a better way of life than giving it for something you believe in
Am I the only one who finds what Bush said a little too close for asking for martyrs?
We 'abuse' people in legal limbo who are locked up in non-prisons because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. We have radical clerics like Pat Robertson. We are starting to celebrate martyrdom ...
And we are different from our "terrorist" "enemies" how?
It doesn't do us any good to win a war against enemies of freedom if we turn into that which we hate.
BTW - as to the wisdom of pulling out of Iraq, etc., perhaps our conservative friends should check out what promenant (sp?) Republicans, including GW Bush, were saying when Clinton was president and fighting a war, and apply it to the current situation.
August 24th, 2005 at 3:19 pmWhen I advocate for the death of another human being because of her free speech, then you can call me a fascist scumbag, until then if the brownshirt fits, wear it Ned.
August 24th, 2005 at 3:20 pmafterthought, I'm not worried about Cindy at all -- well, actually I'm concerned for her sanity.
btw, I wonder how much media attention is going to be paid to "Camp Reality", which is just across the street from "Camp Casey" and is comprised of families with relatives in Iraq who are supportive of the President Bush and the war. My bet -- maybe a 10 second mention at the end of a 5 minute Cindy segment.
August 24th, 2005 at 3:21 pmHey CC,
I wouldn't know, I don't watch TV, but
August 24th, 2005 at 3:22 pmI am sure "fair and balanced" will be there
as soon as they tear themselves away from Aruba.
"I think NED is a Hannity wannabe"
NED could be Hannity, or Limbaugh, or Coulter, or O'Reilly, or Cheney, or Mehlman. They all pretty much repeat the same Conservative talking points. Republican storm troopers might be another description...
August 24th, 2005 at 3:23 pm[...] Shorter Bush: Sheehan’s yapping makes me feel icky and freedom is best served by pro patria mori. [...]
August 24th, 2005 at 3:23 pm"Republican storm troopers"
August 24th, 2005 at 3:25 pmI like that. It fits pretty well.
Terrytheturtle, you are spot-on with your comments, spot-on.
Those are exactly the reasons that were given, for the London bombings. And that is exactly the reasons why. Those young Muslim men from the North of England became radicalised.
And that is the reason why they strapped bombs to their bodies, and blew themselves up. Along with over fifty innocent victims, because they had become radicalised. They watched what was happening to fellow Muslims, in Iraq.
They watched the carnage of the bombing, ‘SHOCK AND AWE’. (Has there ever been a more unsuitable name given to a bombing campaign). They watched their TV’s they listened to their radios. They heard what President Bush and Prime Minister Blair had to say for the justification for going to war with Iraq. They watched the pictures, as the American forces loaded their bombs, ready for ‘shock & awe’. They read the slogans that had been painted on the bombs. ‘This is for 9/11’, ‘die you bastards, die’ and ‘isn’t payback a bitch’. (And these were some of the more friendly ones).
We then learnt that we went to war on a false premise, (most of us already knew this). Thousands of people had died, for what? Angry young Muslim men and women became angry and disillusioned with the rational and the reasoning for going to war. Their Prime Minister, and the so-called leader of the free world had lied to them. They were right for the picking, by the firebrand clerics. Right for doctrinal brain washing, they soon became radicalised.
Their hatred of the West grew, (even though they were British citizens). They loathed America and their own British government, all very sad, but so very true.
So why does Cindy Sheenan, and millions of other peoples, feel the need to protest? Why do people feel the need to blow themselves up? Simple George's and Tony's, phoney 'War On Terror'.
August 24th, 2005 at 3:25 pmNo kidding afterthought, TV news is horrible.
August 24th, 2005 at 3:26 pmI don't advocate anyone's death loser. Unlike you who actually did favor removing someone's feeding tube against her family's wishes I am sure.
#126 - sorry, your talking points are so original. lol!! Keep telling yourself you're smart.
August 24th, 2005 at 3:26 pmGary, if the armed forces of the U.S. aren’t in place to keep us free and safe from harm then we might as well get rid of them now.
The armed forces will not keep us free. That's the job of each and every one of us. Freedom, and its forgotten counterpart Responsibility, are only possible with an informed citizenry - something that this administration has tried at every step to eliminate.
The armed forces didn't keep us safe from harm in Oklahoma City, or New York, or Pennsylvania, or Washington, now did it... The armed forces are supposed to keep the country protected from other countries, which is not the same thing as "safe." If you believe that "safe" is possible, check out Mt. Pinatubo in the Philippines. Wiped out an air base. "Safe" is for when you're selling fear.
And while I'm at it, take the word War and shove that, too. The only war we have going is the one we started. There never was, and cannot be, a war on drugs, poverty or terror. War is fought between countries and what we have here is more like the gang fights during Prohibition. Yeah, it may take weapons to stop heavily armed gangs, but mostly it takes police work, intelligence, planning, cooperation and coordination. In other words, everything that this administration didn't do.
August 24th, 2005 at 3:27 pmYou can’t realize it, but this movement is destroying your party.
Maybe it's different where you live, but I don't see any exodus here.
August 24th, 2005 at 3:29 pmBush directly insults not Cindy, but Casey Sheehan and all the troops who happen to not believe in the Iraq mess, but serve their country anyway. Bush is OFFICIALLY anti-troops now...
It's REVOLUTION time here...
August 24th, 2005 at 3:29 pmEven worse, we have Bush supporters repeating, "The troops support Bush!"
How sick is that?
August 24th, 2005 at 3:31 pm#92 The Northeast Dilemma. If you are going to post your rightwing views here, at least get your facts straight. When BushCo ran against McCain for the Republican nomination, they attacked McCain by questioning his "mental" state and condition after being a POW in Vietnam for 7 years.
Kerry was smeared by a bunch of "Swiftboat Vets", made up mainly of former naval, US Army and Air Force general officers, who never even saw a swiftboat. Some never even wore a uniform. The main mouthpiece who questioned his medals never served with him, never met him personally, and later worked for President Nixon to descredit him for his anti-war views after his discharge.
What makes you so damned sure Kerry's medals were based on a lie? Were you there? As for his purple hearts, one or three, how much blood do you need to spill in service of your country before you are "deserving" of respect? How big the wound?
You remind me of that draft-dodging Dick Cheney, who got one deferment after another, and yet had the gall to question the patriotism and honor of those that did.
August 24th, 2005 at 3:32 pmPretty sick.
August 24th, 2005 at 3:32 pm#133 - what is Hillary's opinion of Cindy Sheehan? Joe Biden? Gov. Mark Warner? Trust me has-been hippie, the left's differences will be on full display come 2008. Your party is a mess. Yes, we have A Hagel, but he decides nothing for the GOP. You lose has-been.
August 24th, 2005 at 3:33 pm#136 - I never said Kerry didn't earn his medals. I said he admitted to war crimes. Why don't you get your facts straight.
August 24th, 2005 at 3:34 pmNED,
Why are so worried?
August 24th, 2005 at 3:34 pmI'm not worried. I'm happy. I love watching the left fall on their face...... again
August 24th, 2005 at 3:36 pmNed,
You never addressed your error on
August 24th, 2005 at 3:36 pmMcCain, which was where Leatherneck started.
Usual spin.
NED,
Way to much protesting from you for me to believe that.
August 24th, 2005 at 3:37 pmROFLMAO!!!
OK, OK, I get it. You guys at ThinkProgress are such sly devils. This Northeast Dilemma is really a plant by ThinkProgress to stir the pot and generate debate.
I mean, no one can really be as stupid as NED?
It's got to be staged. You sly dogs. ;-)
August 24th, 2005 at 3:37 pmNED,
Want to talk war crimes?
August 24th, 2005 at 3:38 pm...The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.
--Wilfred Owen
August 24th, 2005 at 3:38 pmIf Neddy is a plant, could we take him out of the sun and stop watering him?
August 24th, 2005 at 3:41 pmHagel's comments are driven from the fact that he wants to be president after '08 and he trying to distance himself from Bush in the process. I don't think it will sell outside the Blue states and we know where that you get you...second place.
August 24th, 2005 at 3:43 pm#147 - good one. Have to go people have a deadline.
As far as McCain goes, mud was thrown from both sides, but Bush got blamed because he was a winner. If there is any question of McCain's true temperment, why don't you do a google on him, Maria Shriver and Super Tuesday 2000. Not sure you'll like what you find.
Have a nice evening.
August 24th, 2005 at 3:43 pmOK, I have a serious question: why do so many of you jump on people with different opinions and call them stupid, moronic etc.
Seriously, why do you do this?
August 24th, 2005 at 3:44 pmI will be shocked if there isn't a major "terrorist" event within the next two months that is serious enough to allow the Bush administration to crank up martial law and cause harsh repercussions around the price of oil and the job market. This one is gonna be worse than the last because of the planning that has gone into how the government will react.
Bush and co. may be on the ropes, but they will go down swinging. Bob and weave my friends, bob and weave.
August 24th, 2005 at 3:44 pmgod bless cindy, if you don't know she's correct then you are being blinded by the right or missing more than a brick from the load you were born with!
August 24th, 2005 at 3:48 pmOK, I have a serious question: why do so many of you jump on people with different opinions and call them stupid, moronic etc.
If the shoe fits....
August 24th, 2005 at 3:49 pm#139 You said he faked his war record and admitted to war crimes.
Are you saying you think he deserved his medals? Don't flip-flop now.
August 24th, 2005 at 3:51 pmCC #150,
August 24th, 2005 at 3:51 pmThings get ragged after a bunch of posts
and people get snappy.
If you read the whole thing you will see that things
sort of build and then degrade to name-calling,
though some jump right to it.
I will say that you seem generally resonable.
I think all comment areas work like this from
what I have seen, so it is really a problem
everywhere.
Oh, and yes I did call NED a "Hannity wannabe",
but I suppose that can be good or bad depending
how you feel about Hannity. ;^)
#151
This is a perfect of how whacked and kooky your party has become. Some of you think or believe that the government created 9/11.
"the Bush administration to crank up martial law" ????? Do you feel that your rights have been violated in some way? I personally have not been affected by the Patriot Act nor do I think it is an infringment upon anyone who is not trying to kill Americans in this country. What exactly is your problem? Do you hate America that bad? Maybe you should move to France.
August 24th, 2005 at 3:53 pmIn France, everyone gets August off, not just the President.
August 24th, 2005 at 3:55 pmRED,
It seems Chimpy is already pretending to be in
August 24th, 2005 at 3:56 pmFrance where they get five week vacations.
How do we know that His Fraudulency's Great Within isn't, perhaps, secretly bankrolling these crass attempts at "swift-boating" war critics?
And could there be the possibility for where ultra-conservative groups with known connexions to the Great Within may also be bankrolling same?
August 24th, 2005 at 3:57 pmwhat is Hillary’s opinion of Cindy Sheehan? Joe Biden? Gov. Mark Warner? Trust me has-been hippie, the left’s differences will be on full display come 2008. Your party is a mess. Yes, we have A Hagel, but he decides nothing for the GOP. You lose has-been. - NED
People who vote for the Republicans because they are "organized" and the Democrats are a "mess" don't get the whole idea of democracy. Indeed, George Washington and others opposed the very idea of political parties because they would undermine the republic. And yet, for some people, the party with more discipline is considered superior?
To me, that the Democratic party is so raucus ought to be viewed as one of its strengths. As we have such a diversity of ideas, there is enough competition of ideas that the ideas that make it out of our party into governance are bound to be good based on the selection pressure within our party for good ideas.
Of course, we Dems. do need to be more disciplined. Like it or not, we need to play by the rules of the game as they exist now in order to have a say in changing those rules. And right now, a de facto rule (the changing of which requires getting people to think about the consequences of this rule and winning hearts and minds in a long term manner) is that the more disciplined party wins ...
August 24th, 2005 at 3:59 pmafterthought, I think you're right on. Threads tend to fall apart after a while. Happens on the right blogs too. As does name calling. It just strikes me as odd that people who pride themselves in being enlightened would basically cover their ears and go nananananana when somebody says something they don't want to hear.
btw, I don't think calling NED a Hannity wannabe was particularly vicious of you. :-)
August 24th, 2005 at 3:59 pmCC and NED and RED are just not worth the time. Just trolls and pretty piss poor ones at that.
August 24th, 2005 at 4:01 pmI'm sorry, but I think you're being awfully disingenuous with your spin of those comments. That's ok though, 9/10 times you guys hit the nail square on the head. I don't think you're characterization of what was said here is fair, however.
August 24th, 2005 at 4:03 pmRed, first off I don't know what party you're referring to, but I don't belong to either of the two major parties so that your first mistake.
Secondly, I firmly believe that elements within our government were in fact complicit in the planning of 9/11. I don't think GWB had anything to do with it though. Cheney is another story. CIA, absolutely. Once again go and investigate what Chenye was doing on the morning of 9/11, reread the PNAC doctrine and its stated goals. Pay attention and you will be able to connect the dots, I have confidence in you.
I'm not the one that said martial law will be implemented if there's another majot terrorist attack on U.S. soil, people with real power and authority said it, including General Tommy Franks:
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/11/20/185048.shtml
Do I feel violated? Yes, I feel violated but not necessarily by the Patriot Act...yet. I feel violted that my tax dollars are being funneled into killing innocent people with the bobmbs of "shock and awe". I feel violated because I don't think the last two elections were legitimate. I feel violated because these a**holes keep telling the world how much they want to spread freedom and democracy and they've done everything humanly possible to thwart both. You're damn right I feel violated. We all should.
I love what America, therefore I speak my opinion and fight against those that seek to harm it. The GOP is at the top of my shi* list.
How do you know I'm not already in France?
August 24th, 2005 at 4:03 pmSome of you think or believe that the government created 9/11. - Red
I don't believe this, but assuming we did not know who was behind 9/11 (actually, a large number of people don't seem to know this -- they think Iraq was responsible somehow ... hmmmm ...), one of the first questions to ask to figure out who may have dunnit is "who benefits?".
The President clearly benefitted politically from 9/11: look at his approval ratings before and after. This doesn't mean he somehow did it, but it may suggest he had a motivation to be less than vigilant in dealing with a threat -- and, in any other case, anyone would find such a benefit suspicious. Ask yourself: if Clinton were to have received more of a boost in popularity from 1993, wouldn't it maybe seem suspicious to many on the right?
August 24th, 2005 at 4:03 pmgat,
If you feel that way then don't respond to us. You know that we are right, just end your association with the left now and save yourself from another disappointing election year!
August 24th, 2005 at 4:03 pmRed,
It’s typical for "conservatives" (I use that term loosely) to redefine political dissent as hatred for the American people or America itself, however it is only self-serving and ignorant to do so. People can disagree dramatically with political leadership and still not hate the country or the people.
Do you have to be directly affected by something to stand up for what you may think is right or against what you think is wrong? If you feel that way, why do you support the war in Iraq? They never did anything to hurt you; they never effected you in anyway.
The "patriot act" creates the possibility for the government to infringe on the rights of good people. It makes it possible to "spy" on people based on false assumptions and lack of evidence. People are no longer considered innocent until proven guilty, they are treated guilty and then must prove their innocence. What’s wrong with people standing up and fighting for the principles they believe in?
Chomsky writes: “States are not moral agentsâ€
August 24th, 2005 at 4:04 pm>There are few things more difficult in life than seeing a loved one go off to war...Tammy Pruitt…knows that feeling six times over.
Yes, losing your only son, like Cindy did, is one of those few things.
So, you think Tammy might change her mind when some of her sons or her husband doesn't make it back?
Any of them missing any limbs or shell-shocked yet?
Maybe the pResident should listen to some of those people who aren't giving him the 36% approval rating.
August 24th, 2005 at 4:04 pmWolf Blitzer today, tackled the question 'Was the cruise missile attack on Saddam on the eve of the war an assassination attempt?'
Its apparent that the threat of WMD's or Iraqi involvement in 9/11 could provide adequate justification to go to war whereas installing Democracy (a political motive) would not. It is illegal for the US government to assassinate foreign leaders for political reasons.
Mounting evidence shows not only that there were no WMD's or 9/11 connection, but that the administration may have had great reason to believe the claims were invalidated.
The question to ask now is: Was it incompetence or was it criminal?
August 24th, 2005 at 4:05 pmRed,
You truly are living in a small world if you believe that the emotion people lay out on this site is due to their sense of loss over an election.
You are showing your age and maturity by slapping people in the face with some loss they are not tied to directly, simply because you can't prove them wrong in any other way.
August 24th, 2005 at 4:07 pmI agree, gat. I don't understand why they have so much time to devote to us. And then they keep saying thank you. Weirdos.
August 24th, 2005 at 4:08 pmAmerica lives in freedom because of those families.
Fine.
But then, it behooves us all to pay attention when those families aren't living at all, doesn't it? Especially if a member of such a family just wants a short meeting at your vacation home.
August 24th, 2005 at 4:12 pmIt seems as though they are recruiting. The reds are only validated when they are en masse. It looks like some of them didn't get enough parental attention. They have a desire to be "scolded" and look to us. They have to exist; like roaches.
August 24th, 2005 at 4:13 pmElvis - *hat tipped*
August 24th, 2005 at 4:14 pm36%, tighty righties. 36%. And falling. Some mandate.
Stealing isn't winning, it's making sure that everyone loses, rather than your pathetic republican bund. You assholes couldn't win an election without your brownshirts and repig secretaries of state running the campaign, erasing Dem voting rolls, and assassinating the characters of your far more worthy adversaries, be they on your side (McCain) or not. You may have gotten very good at stealing elections, but you certainly have proven that you can't govern. Congratulations on taking the United states from world leader to world-wide bully and joke. In on;y 5 years! Very good, kiddies!
Did I mention 36%?
August 24th, 2005 at 4:14 pm"OK, I have a serious question: why do so many of you jump on people with different opinions and call them stupid, moronic etc.
Seriously, why do you do this?"
Because you are all morons, idiots, stupid, etc.
August 24th, 2005 at 4:16 pmF*ck Bush and every member of his family tree -- I want him out of this state immediately. Since this horrifying war started, and for the first time ever, I have thanked whoever's in charge for my eldest son's autism. Never thought I'd do that. But I have a 17 year old, and Bush is not going to get him. He already pretends he's gay when the recruiters talk to him. Enough. Enough, already. I'm done.
August 24th, 2005 at 4:16 pmIf America were under attack, my family, including me, would fight till the death. This was a war of choice. This was a pre-emptive war because some "thought" Iraq was "thinking" of attacking us. Bush and his thought police are the enemies of freedom. They have endangered our country, they have worsened the threat of terrorism around the world, and they have embroiled us in a mess that we cannot win. If Mrs. Pruitt is comforted with her thoughts about her family and their motivation, more power to her -- but Sheehan is doing what she thinks she needs to do, and she should be free to speak also. Bush would impose a fascist state on us -- speaking only what the leader wants to hear, keeping his comfort level a top priority.
August 24th, 2005 at 4:17 pmGood post Ronjazz!
Cheney and 9/11:
From Newsweek:
http://www.truthout.org/docs_02/10.15A.nswk.cheney.911.htm
9/11 War Games:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/september2004/080904wargamescover.htm
August 24th, 2005 at 4:18 pmIt's called freedom of speech, SpudgeBoy. We all have the right to be morons, idiots, and stupid, and we all have the right to call 'em as we see 'em. It's frustrating as hell, but thank goodness we have it. Right?
August 24th, 2005 at 4:19 pmAmerica lives in freedom because of families like the Pruitts.
America lives in fear because of families like the Bushes.
August 24th, 2005 at 4:19 pmFear of state power, war, terrorism and poverty.
SpudgeBoy,
You are calling people moron's, idiots and stupid for calling people moron's idiots and stupid.
So what do you consider yourself?
August 24th, 2005 at 4:20 pmAs if Bushie would know what it is like to send a child off to war. He is a fool.
August 24th, 2005 at 4:20 pmGet Jenna and Barbara out of the bars and into a uniform -- even then, he would not know the anguish of military parents because his girls would be given office jobs well away from the battle.
Zookeeper,
I with you, they're not getting my sons either. Never, uh-uh, no way. Over my cold, dead body. I'm glad your 17 yr. old is willing to do whatever it takes to keep the recruiters disinterested, many teenagers think joining the armed forces is either noble or a good career move. It used to be. Now it's a death wish and it feeds the war machine.
August 24th, 2005 at 4:23 pm#
There is nothing in that quote that supports your lead sentence Judd. All he says is that families like the Pruitts help keep us free (which you can’t really argue with) — doesn’t say anything about moms like Cindy being a threat to freedom.
If he has said that somewhere else, please advise.
"If you are not with us, you are with the terrorists"
August 24th, 2005 at 4:24 pmJTS......excellent point!
August 24th, 2005 at 4:25 pmIt doesn't matter how long we stay in Iraq; there is no winning. What is the perfect scenario?
(1) Iraq gets together a quicky constitution
(2) All of the Iraqi troops (because there are so many) are trained to _________ (fill in the blank)and to defend themselves from _____________ (fill in the blank)
(3) The country is stabalized
Okay, say all of this happened - then we can say "we won?" What happens when we leave? They do whatever they want because it is their country and not ours. They have been there for many more years than we have been here and, my guess, they have a civil war. Do we have to go back if that happens? What happens if, like their draft constitution says, they are allowed to have separate regions under separate governments? Wouldn't that mean that the regions with the oil will be just fine, but the middle regions with no oil will be impovershed? Will we go back then? When do we just say we have done all that we can? What is all that we can?
NeD? Red? CC?
August 24th, 2005 at 4:28 pmInteresting thing about reactionary trolls is, all the ones I've see run the same ploys. Curiously, these are the same kinds of evasions, provocations, insinuations and insults employed by the right's pundits, this administration and its spokespeople. Does anyone know, is their a training program for assholes or do they all share the same psychopathology?
August 24th, 2005 at 4:33 pmBush is a snake oil salesman for a corrupt ideology. When will the servicemen and their relatives realize they're being played.
August 24th, 2005 at 4:33 pmMarie,
Lets review Saddam's track record - gee he attacked Iran, which after the mess Carter made we supported. Then he attacks and invades Kuwait, which we were supposed to ignore and hope he'd retreat? Then, he doesn't live up to U.N. resolutions by letting them inspect for WMDs and then only after enough time has passed for him to get them moved does he allow them in. If Bush had just sat on his hands and Saddam attack another country in the middle east or worse yet, attack the U.S. would you have been happier?
August 24th, 2005 at 4:34 pmI wasted enough of my time here today. You people are hopeless, and I'd glad for that.
Thank you, Jay. Keep your sons safe. Before 9/11 I used to encourage my son to join the military so he could get some life experience and money for college. But as I was standing in the middle of my living room on 9/11/01, watching the towers burn, I knew we were at war. Didn't know with whom, but war nonetheless. Scared the sh*t out of me. Then Bush started in on Iraq, and I knew he was a mad man. My sons think I'm nuts because I shout at the TV screen when Georgie or his henchmen are talking. Maybe I am...
August 24th, 2005 at 4:37 pmMilitary base closures show Administration vote of no-confidence in,
1. Progress of training of Iraqi troops
August 24th, 2005 at 4:41 pm2. Quelling the insurgent uprise
3. The Iraqi civil war threat
4. Bringing troops home to those bases
Bye Red,
Don't let the wirewall hit ya on the way out.
August 24th, 2005 at 4:42 pmgeorge junior was pulled from the fire of a "legal entanglement" by his father's influence. his noble cause at that time and the contribution to it, was to go missing only to surface saying of his transfer to alabama (merely on paper) didnt use the jets he flew and they knew where he was if they needed to find him. to pass his required physical he needed to see his family physician back in Texas. Although never seen in Alabama he arranged for a retro-active romance with a woman who swore she dated him while he was a active serviceman. get the picture ...noble cause ... makes me wonder whats wrong with Idaho that all those people in one family would be willing to leave their lives there ... some seemingly long before they'd had a chance to come to know the freedom for which they claim to love so much that they are willing to end it in violent death.
August 24th, 2005 at 4:45 pmLets [SIC] review Saddam’s track record - gee he attacked Iran, which after the mess Carter made we supported.
Yeah, we never should've given Carter that time machine. Who knew he'd go back to 1953 to install the Shah?
Then he attacks and invades Kuwait, which we were supposed to ignore and hope he’d retreat?
We were supposed to at least try to solve the situation diplomatically, but that's not an option with right-wingers.
Then, he doesn’t live up to U.N. resolutions by letting them inspect for WMDs
Liar. There were no WMDs.
and then only after enough time has passed for him to get them moved does he allow them in.
It doesn't take a lot of time to move items when they only exist inside your fertile little imagination.
If Bush had just sat on his hands and Saddam attack [SIC] another country in the middle east or worse yet, attack the U.S. would you have been happier?
If you had eggs for breakfast and it resulted in the world blowing up, would you be happy then?!? Would you??
I wasted enough of my time here today. You people are hopeless, and I’d [SIC] glad for that.
Sayonara, chuckles.
August 24th, 2005 at 4:45 pmThat is classic repub from Red. He hits and runs. Although, he obviously missed his mark.
August 24th, 2005 at 4:46 pmWhen I despair, I remember that all through history the ways of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants, and murderers, and for a time they can seem invincible, but in the end they always fall. Think of it – always.
-Mahatma Gandhi
August 24th, 2005 at 4:47 pmI like that one Zoo. I will add it to my quote
August 24th, 2005 at 4:53 pmcollection.
I have searched this thread in vain for even one appreciative comment from the left that people like the Pruitts are willing to make so many sacrifices for our country. Not even one of you had the humility to write one single thankful word.
And, just for the record, Judd, there isn't even a HINT of criticism of Mrs. Sheehan in the Presiden'ts remarks. Neither she, nor her protest, nor her supporters are mentioned. The President is simply acknowledging the debt of gratitude that we all - including you - owe this family.
If the so-called "progressive movement" ever hopes to achieve political viability, the first thing it had better do is learn how to say "Thank you" to America's armed forces.
August 24th, 2005 at 4:55 pmIsn't it obvious why Bush chose to go to Idaho today? This was planned in advance to use the story of the Pruitt family. If they lived in Alaska, he would have went there instead. You can be gauranteed the these brothers will be serving the rest of their days in Iraq safely tucked into the Green Zone. Wouldn't want to embaress President Bush if one of his props gets his ass blown off.
August 24th, 2005 at 4:58 pmIt's a good thing that Karl Rove is not in jail yet.
Red,
August 24th, 2005 at 4:58 pmSorry but your lame scenario with predictions for the future are too far gone to argue with.
The inspectors and sanctions had Saddam well under control -- but Bushie was trigger happy and told the inspectors to leave. Cripes, you still believe he moved WMD to another country!! He didn't have any!
The 5% that possibly remained after we destroyed them all in the 90's were decayed and inert. If you would read the inspectors' reports, you would know that. Ritter, Kay, Blix, ElBaradei, they all said it. But I don't think Fox news reported it - sot tha's explains why youdon't know.
BS Red, Thanks for sharing.
August 24th, 2005 at 5:01 pmSupporting the miltary has been tilled
many times in various threads.
If you want we can all add it too our
.sigs like a car ribbon, but it tends to
be an empty gesture, don't you think?
For then record:
1) Troops should have the proper equipment
2) Veterans should be treated fairly and with respect
AND get the medical attention thet deserve
3) They should only be placed in harms way when absolutely
necessary
4) The country should make sacrifices during war
5) The president owes it to the military to at least
pretend he is on the job during a war
6) More anyone?
It looks like there are a few more repubs breaking from Bush and supporting the inquiry into the Downing Street Memo. They are quite scared of what will happen to them in 06. They should talk to NeD and the rest of the trolls. The trolls seem to think everything is in the bag for them. They even thank us for their expected win.
Hey trolls, call up your congressmen, they need your reassurances.
August 24th, 2005 at 5:05 pmAre they actually saying we are smearing the Pruitts? Because they would never do that. I mean, smear someone who sends their sons off to die. THAT would be just plain mean.
August 24th, 2005 at 5:09 pm#199 - Blue State Red, we do appreciate the sacrifice the Pruitts are willing to make for this country. I, for one, would prefer that they had not been lied to and asked by Dear Leader to make this particular sacrifice. It's the wrong war. I truly hope that not one hair one any of the Pruitt boys' heads is harmed, and hope even more that Mrs. Pruitt does not have to bury any of her sons for George W. Bush. He cares not one bit for any of them.
August 24th, 2005 at 5:17 pmHere's an assignment for you, Judd. Why not go out and interview the families of the other six QRF volunteers who died with with Casey Sheehan. I wonder what they would say. But I doubt you "progressives" have the stomach to hear it. I won't hold my breath.
August 24th, 2005 at 5:21 pm#204 absolutely. I would never smear someone who suffered such a loss, even if they disagreed with me politically. Nor would I dig in their past for dirt, nor use past statements against them, nor associations, nor would I call them names and blame them for any party's downfall.
Moreover, if they felt they needed to say something to me, I would meet with them and let them have their say.
August 24th, 2005 at 5:25 pm"Moreover, if they felt they needed to say something to me, I would meet with them and let them have their say."
Which is exactly what President Bush did - over one year ago - and what he has done with nearly 300 KIA families. I'm quite sure that was no vacation.
August 24th, 2005 at 5:30 pmSpeaking of vacations, I still want to know
August 24th, 2005 at 5:41 pmif you double count vacation days from a vacation.
Blue State Red,
I owe the Pruitts nothing, not one debt of anything including so much as a "thank you." I served four years in the Marine Corps, I paid my own "dues" as people say, as well as the dues for my children and theirs.
Have you?
August 24th, 2005 at 5:42 pmBlue State Red,
It is dangerous to assume that you are talking to people who have not made their own sacrafices.
August 24th, 2005 at 5:52 pmZookeeper,
You are certainly not alone in yelling at the TV (or the radio for that matter)...do it all the time. Except during the Presidential debates....I laughed a lot at those, what a clown. How Americans watched those debates and even considered voting for Bush blows my mind...but I digress.
What the Bush supporters don't realize is that the truth and public opinion have a tendency to snowball. The more your personal situation deteriorates (inflation, housing market bubble bursting, gas prices, stagnant wage growth), the more questions you have for your government. Americans (60-something % of them anyway) are not going to just let the fact that these criminals lied us to war, ruined our economy, tried to privatize Social Security, paid off members of the media, outed a CIA agent etc. etc. roll off their backs. There will be a reckoning.
August 24th, 2005 at 5:55 pm"I owe the Pruitts nothing, not one debt of anything including so much as a 'thank you.' I served four years in the Marine Corps, I paid my own 'dues' as people say, as well as the dues for my children and theirs."
"It is dangerous to assume that you are talking to people who have not made their own sacrafices."
I assume nothing. I only comment on what I see, which is incredible ingratitude, even on your part. Paid your dues, did you? Fine. I thank you as well. But you're not the only one. If you want to puff up your chest and brag about the dues you've paid, you darn well better be prepared to kick in some respect for those who are now doing the same.
August 24th, 2005 at 6:01 pmBlue,
Puffing up your chest is ok...if you can back it up with actual service and sacrifice. This is not ok:
http://www.nomorebush.premiumfinder.com/bush-gallery/missiondone.jpg
August 24th, 2005 at 6:06 pmConcerned Conservative, I disagree with your stance on the war and probably much else, but I admire your reasonable tone and your ability to keep it that way in the face of ad hominem attacks.
August 24th, 2005 at 6:08 pmElvis If only you were a card carrying Republican, with a right-wing mentality. Blue State Red, would be kissing your arse on here.
You would be a true American and a patriot. But you’re a Democrat with left leaning views, (in Blue State Red's opinion). So you are un-American, and un-patriotic.
Typical double standards that the right-wing employ, in their assassinations of peoples characters.
August 24th, 2005 at 6:10 pm"Puffing up your chest is ok...if you can back it up with actual service and sacrifice."
You lefties crack me up. You pay lip service - when called on it - to honoring the "actual service and sacrifice" of our military men and women - but you ignore their opinions about the nation's war policies, and on Election day you do everything possible to invalidate their absentee ballots.
August 24th, 2005 at 6:13 pmI know how we can settle this argument. Since the left has so much respect and gratitude for the service and sacrifice of our military men and women, let's take a vote of all the military personnel who have served in Iraq and Afghanistan, and their families. Let them decide if we should stay or go. I would even be willing to gove you a head start of one "go" vote for every one of our combat dead. Any takers?
August 24th, 2005 at 6:18 pmAnother lie BS Red? Not a surprise I suppose.
August 24th, 2005 at 6:20 pmI recall that Gore allowed all military
ballots to be counted even though many arrived
beyond deadlines and such.
It is pretty clear you just spin.
We have heard all this crap from better spinners
than you. Why waste your time here?
Put another sticker on your car.
afterthought in post #202 nailed it perfectly. The greatest dishonor that can be done to our military men and women is to send them into war based on lies and injustice. This war was illegal and its prosecution has been an abysmal failure. Supporting that cause is NOT supporting the troops.
This war is a lie, this president is a lie. I support the troops by calling for their return home.
August 24th, 2005 at 6:22 pmGee BS,
August 24th, 2005 at 6:23 pmA hypothetical vote of people who are
required to support the war?
You wouldn't even need Diebold to steal
that one.
I thought you were putting another sticker
on your car?
I support a policy that would guarantee no more troops die for the lies. Withdraw from Iraq. Whether we withdraw tomorrow or in 5 years it won't make one bit of difference other than how many more American soldiers and Iraqi civilians are killed. There ARE NO JUST REASONS TO STAY IN IRAQ! I challenge anyone that supports this war to explain the noble cause. What is it Blue?
August 24th, 2005 at 6:26 pm"I support the troops by calling for their return home."
Since you support the troops so much, how 'bout we give them a say in all this? If they vote to come home, I'll shut up and salute as they return. If they vote to stay, you shut up and salute as they stay the course.
August 24th, 2005 at 6:29 pmWMD? Were none. Lie.
August 24th, 2005 at 6:32 pmTies to Al Qaeda? Were none. Lie.
Saddam was a vicious tyrant? He's gone, so is that excuse.
Spreading freedon and democracy? By killing 10's of thousands of innocent people and using torture as official policy.
Fighting over there instead of on our own soil? Fighting "over there" is the greatest gift the Islamists have ever recived. Good job George.
#37, please don't call Bush "Monkey Boy": I have a cat named Monkey Boy who's smarter than Bush!
August 24th, 2005 at 6:33 pm"Tammy says this:....And I guess you couldn’t ask for a better way of life than giving it for something you believe in.â€
Sounds like suicide-bomber talk to me. Better stick her on the no-fly list.
August 24th, 2005 at 6:33 pmBlue, since your proposed "poll" will never happen and our armed forces know that speaking out against this war might get them court marshalled, jailed or worse....I suggest you concentrate your creative brainpower on something more constructive. Like helping to bring these guys home.
August 24th, 2005 at 6:35 pmStill waiting on that "noble cause" Blue?
August 24th, 2005 at 6:37 pmSo instead of "Support our Troops" now it's "Our troops support Bush"
August 24th, 2005 at 6:37 pmDon't want to let the troops decide? Then your faux support for the troops is a lie.
August 24th, 2005 at 6:37 pmDon't get your hopes up for an answer Jay,
August 24th, 2005 at 6:38 pmI asked the same thing in #221.
I'm all for it. Let me know how you make out.
August 24th, 2005 at 6:39 pmThere is no nobility in this exercise. We're there to control the region, secure the resources and put China and Russia on the defensive. Everything else is a patriotic gloss to keep the rubes in line. It's strictly business.
I thank the Pruitts and all families whose sons and daughters are putting their lives on the line. I just wish they weren't going to die for such a shitty reason.
August 24th, 2005 at 6:48 pmJust because the government takes us to war doesn't mean our "freedom" is always at stake. Whenever Bush equates fighting with protecting "freedom" it doesn't ring true. We were "free" when Saddam was in there all those years and Saddam wasn't about to do anything to "take away" our freedom. The Pruitts may buy the garbage he's selling, which is their right. But anyone who looks at Bush with something other than rose-colored glasses sees nothing but a liar.
August 24th, 2005 at 6:50 pmBlue State Red,
There is no requirement, anywhere, in any official US document that says I or anyone else, whether they have served or not, owe anyone any respect for serving their country. What you are alluding to is a personal value that not everyone has, and it does not qualify them as an "American."
I'll tell you truthfully, I don't respect the men and women over their as much as I used to. I'm reading a book called "Freeing the World to Death" by William Blum. In it he says "they don't even have the excuse of being drafted." That made me think...you know, that’s right. They are CHOOSING to do what they are doing. They are CHOOSING to kill these people. They CAN simply refuse. They would have to sacrifice, but they still can refuse. I would respect them more for that.
I'm not that proud of my service. So I’m the last person who is going to be “puffing up my chest.†I was too young and too dumb to understand what I was doing, and that is my fault. But, I speak from experience. I can say that I have been there, and done that, and I know more then those who haven’t.
“Only those who slavishly worship success can think that effectiveness is admirable without regard to what is affected.â€
August 24th, 2005 at 6:50 pm"Still waiting on that 'noble cause' Blue"
I'll go slow and use simple words so you can understand:
2002 Joint Resolution
UN Resolution 1441
Saddam's support for al Qaeda
Saddam's support for other terrorists
Saddam's public approval of 9/11
Saddam removed
No more rape rooms
No more disappearances
No more mass murder
No more threats against neighboring countries
Provisional government
Transitional government
Purple Fingers
National legislature
Drafting a constitution
Upcoming elections
Iraqi popular support
Recognition by Arab/Islamic countries
High US troop morale
Combat success on the ground
I may have missed a few items, but you get the idea. We done good. We're doing good. We will continue to do good. It's a noble cause.
August 24th, 2005 at 6:50 pmBlue,
You are wrong on almost everything you listed. Sean Hannity read the same list of bullshit over the radio yesterday.
U.N. Resolution? Since when do the Bushies give a flying flock about the U.N. and it's anything?
Saddam had no affiliation with Bin Laden....ever. Which by definition means that he had to connection to Al Qaeda. This point has been beaten to death. You are incorrect.
Milions in the Arab world approved of 9/11. Doesn't mean they had anything to do with it.
No more rape rooms, disappearances, mass murder. Do you read newspapers bud? Maybe the rapes don't happen in dedicated rooms any longer...but they surely still happen. Women can't go out at night in the Sunni triangle. Bodies keep turning up all over the place, innocent people are being blown to bits. What the fvck are you talking about?
Rotwang in post #233 puts it very succinctly. This war is strictly business. Nothing noble about it.
August 24th, 2005 at 7:05 pm"There is no requirement, anywhere, in any official US document that says I or anyone else, whether they have served or not, owe anyone any respect for serving their country. What you are alluding to is a personal value that not everyone has, and it does not qualify them as an 'American.' . . .
"I’m not that proud of my service. So I’m the last person who is going to be 'puffing up my chest.' "
Look, have it your way, but I didn't question your opinion by bringing up military service, or lack thereof. It was the other way around, and it sure read like in-your-face chest puffing to me.
As far as respecting our military men and women, you at least are honest about your disrespect. That is more than I can say about the rest of your friends on this site.
By the way, there is no military service requirement for expressing opinions, one way or the other. The left likes to cherry pick a few dissenting opinions from here and there within the military, then insists that only those who have served can comment (this is their "No Chickenhawks" exception to the First Amendment).
Of course, if one suggests letting the military personnel and their families decide, as I did above, the left disqualifies them as being presumptively incapable of casting their own votes in the matter. If that is the case, why do we even bother to let them vote at all? Oh, that's right, the left tries to block them from voting anyway.
August 24th, 2005 at 7:08 pmBlue, I appreciate you keeping it civilized at least.
Please take a minute to view some photos from our noble cause. Please note the number of children we've liberated:
http://www.einswine.com/atrocities/iraq/
August 24th, 2005 at 7:09 pmPS to Judd:
Still waiting to hear the results of your interviews with the families of the fallen heroes who died with Casey Sheehan in Sadr City that day.
August 24th, 2005 at 7:11 pmIf the so-called “progressive movement†ever hopes to achieve political viability, the first thing it had better do is learn how to say “Thank you†to America’s armed forces.
Comment by Blue State Red — August 24, 2005 @ 4:55 pm
Thanks, but no thanks.
Here’s an assignment for you, Judd. Why not go out and interview the families of the other six QRF volunteers who died with with Casey Sheehan. I wonder what they would say. But I doubt you “progressives†have the stomach to hear it. I won’t hold my breath.
Comment by Blue State Red — August 24, 2005 @ 5:21 pm
The evil George Soros kidnapped them and they need you to rescue them from the evil clutches of cindy sheehan and Moveon.org.
I know how we can settle this argument. Since the left has so much respect and gratitude for the service and sacrifice of our military men and women, let’s take a vote of all the military personnel who have served in Iraq and Afghanistan, and their families. Let them decide if we should stay or go. I would even be willing to gove you a head start of one “go†vote for every one of our combat dead. Any takers?
Comment by Blue State Red — August 24, 2005 @ 6:18 pm
Yay! Military Junta Time!
August 24th, 2005 at 7:16 pm"Please take a minute to view some photos from our noble cause."
It is heartrending to see the face of war expressed in the tears of little children. What amazes me is the number of such children who survive to express their appreciation for the gift of freedom. This has been true of every war we have fought, in Europe, in the Pacific, in Korea, and even in Vietnam. It will be true in Iraq, as well. People blame their oppressors, not their liberators.
August 24th, 2005 at 7:16 pmBlue, the thing that annoys me about the war supporters is their utter hypocrisy. If you support the war but aren't willing to fight in it yourself and yet you cheer on the actual combatants from a distance...what does that make you. It's a fair and honest question. Our recruitment numbers are way off, we are fighting this open-ended "war on terror" in which you wholeheartedly believe. Why is it unfair to ask you why you don't have the courage to serve in it? I think that's a perfectly fair question.
August 24th, 2005 at 7:17 pmBlue State Red,
No one dismissed the people in the service as being incapable. But their votes are not the only ones that count. If the majority of the people in the service wanted to invade Switzerland, does that mean we should let them? That’s ridiculous.
ANYONE can comment, can have their own opinion. You blindly made the comment that people owe the Pruitts a debt of gratitude, and you’re wrong.
August 24th, 2005 at 7:21 pm"It is heartrending to see the face of war expressed in the tears of little children. What amazes me is the number of such children who survive to express their appreciation for the gift of freedom."
Ugh. That's where I cut out. You sound incredibly foolish here. The old "destroying the village to save it" approach. My heart aches for your family Blue. Truly.
August 24th, 2005 at 7:21 pmBlue Stat Red,
#240 - "Unhappy is that land that needs hero's."
August 24th, 2005 at 7:23 pmBlue State Red wrote:
Saddam’s support for Al Qaeda - Never proven.
Saddam’s support for other terrorists - As have America.
2002 Joint Resolution/UN Resolution 1441 - Only when it suits America, do they take any notice of the UN, and UN resolutions?
Saddam’s public approval of 9/11 - Proof please.
Saddam removed - Illegally.
No more rape rooms - Have been replaced by the torture rooms, by the American military.
No more disappearances - Pot, kettle and black. Guantanamo Bay, comes to mind.
No more mass murder - What do you call the deaths of thousands of innocent civilians. No wait a minute 'A NOBLE CAUSE'.
No more threats against neighbouring countries - Maybe not by Saddam Hussein and Iraq. But George W. Bush, and his government, is threatening Syria and Iran, with their bullyboy tactics.
Provisional government - Puppet government, don't you mean.
Transitional government - Please.
National legislature – Read American legislature.
Drafting a constitution - Who the Iraqis or the Americans?
Upcoming elections - They have already had the elections, and still can't agree on a constitution, that America approves of.
Iraqi popular support - Do you watch the news, (not Fox News)?
Recognition by Arab/Islamic countries - What?
High US troop morale - Has anybody actually asked them how they feel. Or are they not allowed to express their opinions? I'm sure Bush would want to hear if American troops are feeling demoralised.
Combat success on the ground - Again, do you actually watch the news?
'NOBLE CAUSE', WHAT ABSOLUTE BOLLOCKS!!!
August 24th, 2005 at 7:24 pm"Were there and we have to win."
We are still there, but we can't win this war as long as you are manning an M-414 Keyboard here. You have got to help your pResident win this war for Mobil-Exxon's bottom line....how about showing a little leadership here and getting your apologist arse down to your local army recruitment station? If not you and concerned conservative, who?
August 24th, 2005 at 7:33 pmI'm with Jay.
Blue, I'm done. If you can look at pictures of slaughtered children and find justification, then there is no hope until you find ir for yourself.
I now believe you have a "cold and timid soul," that is not intended as an insult, it's intended to express disappointment.
August 24th, 2005 at 7:33 pmBush wants our military men and women to fight his war in Iraq and he wants their families to fight his war in America.
August 24th, 2005 at 7:34 pmBSR-
Just curious, what's the RNC paying on a per-post basis? I think you best crank it up...rumor has it that they're outsourcing these jobs to India next month.
August 24th, 2005 at 8:10 pmA real leader this guy is.
August 24th, 2005 at 8:10 pmUses manipulation rather than leading.
Overpriviledged underachieving fake
coyboy CT frat-boy.
A noble cause for who,? Bush,Cheney and all of this bunch. Not a noble cause for any of our 1870 plus troops who were sent there for greed, power and profit to loose their lives. You are still on the net as am I, but do you know what it is like to loose your child, forever for any reason and how long you grieve.? I do and I say to you sir, rather you served or not you have been sold a pack of lies by a bunch who is bent on cutting, drilling or killing all we hold dear for power and money and they are doing it claiming to be christians. Cindy and any one who has lost their loved ones has the high ground here. Jesus was a peace activest as far as I can tell and had no wealth.No simalarities to any one I see in power. So far we have lost 3000+ on 9/11, 1870+ in Iraq plus 10,000 wounded trying to get benefits here at home and fighting these war amongers to get medical benefits they need and deserve. Iraq has lost in excess of 100,000 men, women and children. Our country is in the worst debt ever seen and we are now owned by foreign countries that hold our debt. All important sevices, domestic and enviromental have been cut to the bone, including many of our home security needs. The rich are continuing to get tax cuts, their children never serve in a war and they hardly pay taxes. All poluters are benefiting, our water is being poluted, air fouled and even our wild life is under attack. Where the hell have you been.? In 64 years of living, working hard, voting and supporting my country I have never see it this bad. It is my constitutional duty to hold this bunch in office accountable for the mess they have made. Even smart birds know not to crap in their own nest, not this bunch. The one thing they are good at is lies and cover up. Bottom line, where is the Bush buddy Ben Lauden.? Why does Bush think it's o.k. to hold hands and trip through the flowers with a foreign oil magnet and not meet and answer all the questions of a US citizen who's son went to war for his lies and died for the Bush mess. Do we wonder how much they knew or planned 9/11. No I don't trust any thing this bunch does Sir, and you shoulden't either. You can bet as usual I will vote and the radical right should be afraid, we are going to take back their free ride on all our pocket books and reduce their giant profit margens.
August 24th, 2005 at 8:43 pmBSer...What a desparate tool!
August 24th, 2005 at 9:12 pm“Please take a minute to view some photos from our noble cause.â€
It is heartrending to see the face of war expressed in the tears of little children. What amazes me is the number of such children who survive to express their appreciation for the gift of freedom. This has been true of every war we have fought, in Europe, in the Pacific, in Korea, and even in Vietnam. It will be true in Iraq, as well. People blame their oppressors, not their liberators.
Comment by Blue State Red — August 24, 2005 @ 7:16 pm
You are a dangerous psychopath.
August 24th, 2005 at 9:16 pmSaddam’s support for Al Qaeda - Never proven.
The 9/11 Commission confirmed this.
Saddam’s support for other terrorists - As have America.
Abu Nidal, Zarqawi, Palestinian terrorists, etc. The terrorist training camps were either part of al Qaeda's operation or that of some other terrorist organization.
2002 Joint Resolution/UN Resolution 1441 - Only when it suits America, do they take any notice of the UN, and UN resolutions?
Yet these Resolutions did authorize the measures we took against Saddam. Who's picking and choosing now?
Saddam’s public approval of 9/11 - Proof please.
Saddam stated publicly his support for the 9/11 attacks.
Saddam removed - Illegally.
No, carefully. From a spider hole.
No more rape rooms - Have been replaced by the torture rooms, by the American military.
If you think the night shift at Abu Ghraib compares to Saddam's torture chambers, you must REALLY have a thing about ladies' undies.
No more disappearances - Pot, kettle and black. Guantanamo Bay, comes to mind.
Yeah, I'm sure those guys were already getting lots of air conditioning and orange chicken with rice pilaf at home.
No more mass murder - What do you call the deaths of thousands of innocent civilians. No wait a minute ‘A NOBLE CAUSE’.
The tragic hazards of a war that was declared on us by those who caused "the deaths of thousands of innocent civilians" on 9/11. But no fighting force has never worked harder, or risked more, to avoid civilian casualties.
No more threats against neighbouring countries - Maybe not by Saddam Hussein and Iraq. But George W. Bush, and his government, is threatening Syria and Iran, with their bullyboy tactics.
Really? I must have missed the speech where the President called Syria and Iran America's 19th and 20th provinces.
Provisional government - Puppet government, don’t you mean.
No, I don't. I mean the people who risked their lives to lay the groundwork for a free Iraq.
Transitional government - Please.
Thank you.
National legislature – Read American legislature.
Last time I checked it was Iraqis who picked their legislators.
Drafting a constitution - Who the Iraqis or the Americans?
The Iraqis. Did IQs suddenly drop?
Upcoming elections - They have already had the elections, and still can’t agree on a constitution, that America approves of.
Uh, they have elections coming up later this year.
Iraqi popular support - Do you watch the news, (not Fox News)?
By every account of our troops and those reporters who bother to leave their hotel the Iraqi people want us to stay.
Recognition by Arab/Islamic countries - What?
Why do you think Zarqawi executed that Egyptian diplomat? Because Arab and Islamic countries are quietly establishing diplomatic ties with the new Iraqi government.
High US troop morale - Has anybody actually asked them how they feel. Or are they not allowed to express their opinions? I’m sure Bush would want to hear if American troops are feeling demoralised.
Yes they have been asked. Re-enlistment rates in combat units are running far ahead of their targets.
Combat success on the ground - Again, do you actually watch the news?
August 24th, 2005 at 9:22 pmYes. Our troops are very popular with the Iraqi people (especially the children). That's one reason the troops are so enthusiastic about re-enlisting. The enemy is reduced to relying mainly on IEDs, car bombs and suicide vests. When was the last time you saw the larger, stronger, better equipped, more popular force lose a war?
#253 Sharon. Well said!
August 24th, 2005 at 9:23 pmNoble cause, my a**! Words made up to make people feel better about dying. It's a balm to our conscience, words to get families to scarifice their children. Ask any young soldier, laying in the dirt, with his intestines hanging out, how noble he feels, as he lays dying. Or what about the soldier who just shot a child, she mistook for the enemy, how noble she feel now. This is what war is all about, death, pain and destruction, noble has nothing to do with it.
This war was started to benefit a few, but we'll be paying for it for a long time to come.
"You are a dangerous psychopath."
I think by definition a psychopath is incapable of sympathizing with these poor young war victims. My heart goes out to them. "War is not healthy for children and other living things" is not just a slogan, it's true. I just happen to believe that war sometimes IS the answer. In this case, it was obvious almost from the beginning of the 1991 ceasefire agreement that war would eventually be the only answer for Saddam Hussein.
August 24th, 2005 at 9:29 pmYes Blue State Red it amazes me there are any children left in Iraq at all. Do you and your bunch have any pictures of the 100,000 that have died.? So many people screaming war and killing and claiming what good they have done. Soon our troop loses will pass the number we lost to the Ben Lauden bunch on 9/11. The news reports are saying one day we will be out of Iraq by fall of 06, another officer gets on c-span and says 5 more years. As a parent with no living children I say bring them all home today. Not one more life for a Bush and company lie.
August 24th, 2005 at 9:33 pmA post up thread spoke of how the dems aren't organized like the conservatives and how the right takes walking in lockstep as a badge of honor when voting for "republicans" who would most accurately would be described as "theofascists."
What today's "republicans" haven't realized yet is that their political machine, with its strong theocratic and fascist veins, isn't even the product of the free market of ideas. They'd know this if they looked but they do not want to know and Rush isn't going to tell them. Fact is, the conservative "machine" was bought and paid for, it was guided by their "go to" guy over the last twenty five years, it's literally a creation of their savior. We've had theocrats, fascists and John Birchers running around this country for long time but we never let them control it, for good reason.
We have now. Thanks to the soul selling conservatives who invited this "savior" in and asked for his help. Thanks to folks like Reagan who, during the 1980 campaign, asked the "Christian's" savior for his "support" and "prayers." This really started the ball rolling on the conservative soul selling....yes, I speak of the man who OUTSPENT Scaife bringing his personal vision of the "Christian" Republican Party to power in America.
Yes, I speak of the Conservative's Savior.
Is there any conservative "Christian" who has ever read John 5:43? If they have, they rationalized it away in manner befitting so many cult members before them.
August 24th, 2005 at 9:43 pmCan this man stoop any lower? (I can't even say his name) He is now "recruiting" and showing off moms that agree with him? So? What's the point? Mrs. Pruitt is entitled to her feelings about her sons and the war. The same measure applies to Cindy Sheehan. All she wants to know is, what is "the noble cause" and not to establish a comparison regarding her feelings with Mrs. Pruitt and/or any other mother.
I think this latest move is absolutely despicable... stick to your vacation...
August 24th, 2005 at 9:52 pmVery good Aunt Maddie. May I add, I believe this bunch is trying to bring about their Armagedon. Since I am not a christian but have read much of the Bible I wonder and worry a lot about people profesing their strong faith and then scream loud and long about killing and running every one into the ground that don't agree with them. I think it say's some where " beware of false prophet's" I won't confuse them with the facts since their minds are already made up. Before I get slammed will add I am a Pagen and my first thought is "Harm None". I am also a staunch Dem and anti war unless in self defence.
August 24th, 2005 at 10:04 pmI guess the Pruits are a bunch of idiots. You know their idiots because National Guardsmen never signed up to go to a foriegn country. Wait until mommie loses one of her own and then her story will change.
So Bushie found one stupid family, good for him. The rest of America still sides with Cindy Sheehan, the latest polls prove it.
August 24th, 2005 at 10:41 pmI won’t confuse them with the facts...
Good point. The right is comprised of millions of Earl "Don't confuse me the facts" Landgrebes.
And yes, the Bible says don't believe people who claim to be the messiah and they predict false messiahs. Sadly, most republican leaders are not Christians and will sell their souls for cash and the power it brings in a second.
There are more than a few of them who have sold.
August 24th, 2005 at 10:43 pmTo Concerned Conservative:
What is it, exactly, that you are "concerned" about?
Is it having our BRAVE troops killed for a pack of lies and to make The Chimp's friend richer?
Maybe you are concerned about the robbing of our civil liberties here at home?
Or does the constant reminder that the so called leaders of this country live in a fantasy world make you a we bit "concerned"?
Or have you drank the kool-aid and are concerned that now you must pay a price for that action.
We are all concerned about the hell this group of assholes has created in our name. Some of us just happen to have chosen to try to stop them before they make it any worse. You can remain concerned right up to the time when they have destroyed everything this great country once stood for, or you can speak out against the lies and waste of our resources and our citizens. It is called Taking Action, you should try it sometime
August 24th, 2005 at 10:46 pmBullshit Protectors - the perfect statement without saying a word !!! Don't ya just love it...
August 24th, 2005 at 11:07 pmJust saw mommie Pruit on the news. She looks like the town drunk.
August 24th, 2005 at 11:09 pmSending our National Guard to Iraq is bad for national security. What if we need those Guard members here at home?
After Hurricane Ivan hit my area (Pensacola, Florida), we has a shortage of Florida Guard members to help out after the storm. This never happened before. We knew why...Too many were in Iraq to do their job at home.
No wonder why the Florida election was rigged to give the illusion that Idiot George won this state.
August 24th, 2005 at 11:12 pmWhy do I feel it won't be long before Bush starts issueing Mother's Medals to women who have son's for Der Furher, I mean Freedom?
August 24th, 2005 at 11:17 pmBSer @#256 Last throes! The job as the new Baghdad Bob is yours!
August 24th, 2005 at 11:24 pm"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."
Quoted in 1918, by REPUBLICAN President Theodore Roosevelt...
August 24th, 2005 at 11:34 pmCombat success on the ground - Again, do you actually watch the news?
Yes. Our troops are very popular with the Iraqi people (especially the children). That’s one reason the troops are so enthusiastic about re-enlisting. The enemy is reduced to relying mainly on IEDs, car bombs and suicide vests. When was the last time you saw the larger, stronger, better equipped, more popular force lose a war?
Comment by Blue State Red
When was the last time you saw the larger, stronger, better equipped, more popular force lose a war?
Answer: Vietnam.
August 24th, 2005 at 11:44 pmAnd don't forget to criticize the Dem collaborators: Kerry, Edwards, Lieberman, Biden, H. Clinton, Reid and Pelosi. Political death to the collaborators! Russ Feingold for President!
August 24th, 2005 at 11:45 pmmaybe casey shehan was the stupid one--he re-enlisted knowing he was going to iraq
August 24th, 2005 at 11:52 pm#272 Nick, the Amurkans are still fighting Vietnam. Witness the strange tale of John Kerry's presidential run. His platform seemed to be: I'm a decorated Vietnam vet and I'm a democrat. His history as the man who asked Nixon "How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake", was fought over by the Swift Boat Veterans, who essentially slimed his record enough to erase the only advantage he had over AWOL Bush. why did they do this? Because the men who led the slime, have always held to the credo that it was the anti-war movement that cost them the Vietnam war, not their ability to fight it. They've never forgotten and they sitll cling to the idea that without those lousy Kerry anti-war veterans and the hippy protestors, they could have won the war. Would there have been any Vietnamese to shower them with flowers? Not relevant to them. A symptom of this continuing fight over the Vietnam war is the story of Tiger Force, broken during summer after the Iraq invasion but completely ignored by Amurkan 'So-called-librul-media' (SCLM) http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20031022/SRTIGERFORCE/110190169 Amurkans simply can't stomach their 'exceptionalism' in the world as being able to bring forth My Lai, Tiger Force, Abu Ghraib, Iraq, Chile, Guatemala, Nicarauga you know the list.
The world is paying for the schism that still exists from Vietnam. Or you could say it's all a big willy contest between Chimpy and Poppy Bush, take your pick.
August 25th, 2005 at 12:14 amHey Vacation-George,
August 25th, 2005 at 12:18 amRead our lips: STOP insulting the intelligence of the American people...YOU continue to promote your war so much I think YOU should spend some of your vacation time there to lead by example and back up your talk. YOU have always been a good TALKER, huh, Vacation-George? Keep riding your bike and photo-opting your way out of this mess you have gotten our country into.
What's with YOU and the other war-monger from Texas, Lyndon Baines Johnson, Don't you guys get it that not a single American life is worth the money the military industrial complex receives every time corporations benefit from their deceitful lies about "noble cause",and over use of the term "hero". STOP insulting our intelligence...it's sad that you evaded Vietnam yet years later can masquerade around and pretend to be a "commander-in-chief" and send yet others to fight and die on your behalf again. Some Christain you are too Vacation-George: I guess "Thou Shalt Not Kill" doesn't apply to YOU and your OIL pipelines.
Cindy Sheehan,
THANK YOU for having the courage to confront the distortions and lies of the Bullsh&%$#-Administration.
August 25th, 2005 at 12:24 amGOD bless you and the ideal that PATRIOTISM does not mean blindly following the Bullsh&%$#.
Of course we "progressives" and "liberals" are thankful for the troops for who they are.
WE are also thankful for what they usually are asked to do.
The problem here is that Bush is using our troops as slave labor for the corporate oil and gas industry who are stealing from the IRaqis and the American people.
You can love the troops and disagree with what the commander in chief is asking them to do.
If you ask me, anybody who still supports the Iraqi invasion is the anti-troop, anti-American person. It is people like Cindy Sheehan who is pro-troop and pro American. Thank you Cindy.
August 25th, 2005 at 1:05 amComments on the comments:
August 25th, 2005 at 1:11 amFirst I need to say that "concerned consevative" is absolutely correct in noticing that the article at the top of the page comes nowhere near living up to the sensationalist headline preceding it. Cindy Sheehan is not even mentioned in the article. Although I'm as sure as many of you out there that the Pruit article was a not-so-subtle Bush response to the "Cindy Problem", making assumptions that lead to distortions and sensationalism only make it harder for anyone to take us "left wingnuts" seriously. If we want to promote serious dialogue and effect change in this country we need to play it straight or we'll end up sounding like Rush Limbaugh (and who in their right mind can take him seriously?).
Secondly I'd like to heartily agree with Sharon Cox on all her points. I'm 54 years old and like you Sharon have never seen things in this country at such an all time low. If we don't get involved and take this country back from the criminals that are running it we won't have to worry about terrorism from abroad cause there won't be nothing left. It's been obvious to me since 911 that Bush and his gang are the "real" terrorists and what they are doing to our young men and women and the Iraqi people has done and is still doing more real damage to our country and our way of life than a whole boatload of Osama Bin Ladins.
How about this -- we stop f*ing with everyone. Iran, North Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan....stop ...all of it.
What we need is a defensive perimeter around the nation, with borders sealed off and total control of each human being and container coming into and out of the country.
Casualties: Minimal to zero
Cost: ~100 billion..TOTAL
Return: Phenomenal.
BTW after this year, President Bush will officially earn the title of WORST PRESIDENT OF ALL TIME.
August 25th, 2005 at 1:27 amCC: We left them pretty much alone even after they attacked us (first World Trade Center bombing, USS COLE, etc.) and that didn’t prevent 9/11
add to that the Grand Daddy of leaving them pretty much alone after they attacked us first, 1983 Beirut, who was that Frenchman in charge..dang it's escaping me.
August 25th, 2005 at 2:17 am"There’s no question it was a major cause of 9/11, We told the world that terrorism succeeds." John Lehman
You'd be amazed how much fair handed dealings with countries (Israel and brutal theocratic monarchies like the Saudis get a wink and a nod from us) and removal of our troops from foreign soil would accomplish. Since WWI the west has been destabilzing and interfering in the region and the blowback from that is what we are receiving. Anyone who thinks we are there to bring democracy to the region is dreaming.
August 25th, 2005 at 8:31 amPoor Jerry,
First I need to say that “concerned consevative†is absolutely correct in noticing that the article at the top of the page comes nowhere near living up to the sensationalist headline preceding it. Cindy Sheehan is not even mentioned in the article. Although I’m as sure as many of you out there that the Pruit article was a not-so-subtle Bush response to the “Cindy Problemâ€, making assumptions that lead to distortions and sensationalism only make it harder for anyone to take us “left wingnuts†seriously.
You must be a troll. That is a novel approach, however. If you are just a recovering Republiholic, you will eventually realize that nothing CC says is correct and there is absolutely nothing wrong or misleading about this post. At 54 onw would think you might have learned a few things. If it's the early onset of senility, that could explain it too.
August 25th, 2005 at 8:42 amBy FAR the best comment about Cindy I have read anywhere is here:
http://cunningrealist.blogspot.com/2005/08/decency-is-not-in-them.html
August 25th, 2005 at 9:25 am[...] pushes Pruitt as antidote to Cindy Sheehan. 9:53 am | Comment (0) [...]
August 25th, 2005 at 9:53 amBush Attacks Sheehan In Bare Knuckle Speech
...
August 25th, 2005 at 9:57 amCindy's kicking his coward ass.
August 25th, 2005 at 10:10 amBlue State Red has my talking points DOWN. good work sheep, you made me proud.
August 25th, 2005 at 10:20 am[...] Yesterday Bush pulled out his dog whistle and signaled to the minions that it was now time to declare open warfare on the anti-war majority. In the next few days and as Bush’s record-long vacation comes to an end, you can expect the rhetoric to get a good ratcheting up in order to shore up those poll numbers. He’s not running for re-election but there’s the supreme court fight coming up, along with the 2006 elections and general legacy building to be done. [...]
August 25th, 2005 at 10:52 amJust because someone believes a lie, that doesn't make it the truth (even if the President says it).
August 25th, 2005 at 10:57 amIt took years before the protests against Vietnam became so large that they could not be ignored. Thanks to the incredible, horrendous, colossal, obvious, blatant, stupidity and arrogance of this adminsitration, and a wonderful women like Cindy Sheehan and those that are following her lead not even the corrupted media, nor any of the powers that be can stop the tide of truth sweeping America.
Those that couldn't make it to Crawford will make it to Washington on Sept. 24th. Then watch the numbers grow!
August 25th, 2005 at 12:29 pmI wonder home many rogue nations are now thinking, 'Why should we be afraid of the pathetic United States anymore, look at the spectacle they have made in poor, tiny Iraq. They don't have enough military might left to scare Lichtenstein"
Kim Il Song must be laughing his ass off.
George W., you are a complete dickhead!
August 25th, 2005 at 12:33 pmThis comment is for Red. In next year's election the Dems will be back in power and you can cry in your beer.
There is alot of people that are against this war. Bush is a liar. He went into Iraq for oil and to make his supporters more rich. If we are going to leave why are we building permanent bases there?
August 25th, 2005 at 4:34 pm[...] Conservatives took President Bush’s cue yesterday and turned the spotlight on Tammy Pruett, an Iraq mom whose husband and five sons have all served in Iraq. Under the headline, “Move Over, Cindy: Bush Singles Out Other Military Mom,” Matt Drudge said that Bush had taken “direct aim at Cindy Sheehan” when he highlighted Pruett during his speech to Idaho National Guardsmen. [...]
August 25th, 2005 at 4:53 pm#247 - Just saw Susan on the news - she looks like the town tweaker.
August 25th, 2005 at 5:57 pmI think it is so wonderful that we live in such a great country that we can be utterly vile and vicious talking with and about each other (and our politicians!) and not worry about the nefarious knock at the door during the dark of night - oh (!) - the proud, paranoid and progressive left DOES listen for the "thought police" to knock. Don't worry - the paranoia is your Karma for endorsing "political correstness" in it's infancy. Now would one of you be so kind as to haul Cindy Sheehan off Casey's coffin - a regular soap box will do just fine for her slamming U.S."imperialism, et al".
August 25th, 2005 at 6:14 pmAlexa -- why do you hate America so much?
August 25th, 2005 at 11:09 pm... wait 'til you all see the " bush freedom rap " jon stewart just played on " the daily show " ! high-larious !!! ( they hate us fer our freedom , see ? ) ...
August 25th, 2005 at 11:12 pmI think it is so wonderful that we live in such a great country that we can be utterly vile and vicious talking with and about each other (and our politicians!) and not worry about the nefarious knock at the door during the dark of night - oh (!) -
Comment by Alexa — August 25, 2005 @ 6:14 pm
Wow, Alexa, isn't it truly amazing that we can still make criticisms about our government without being arrested! Wow, isn't America the best! I mean no other country in the world would allow that. Not Belgium, not New Zealand, Not France, not Germany, not Italy, not Brazil, not Canada, not Spain, not Egypt, not Bermuda, not India, not Japan, not ...No wait, what the hell, I guess you can do that in just about every country in the world.
HMMM. Alexa must not get out very much!
August 25th, 2005 at 11:19 pmSomeone may have pointed this out already, if so it bears repeating.
Families like the Sheehans also help this country to remain free both by giving their children to defend it and then by exercising their freedom to speak out when the leadership is running it over a cliff.
August 26th, 2005 at 10:50 amIt is an all volunteer Army, Navy Air Force, Marines and
August 26th, 2005 at 10:53 amCoast Guard. The recruitment numbers are quite high and the Bush girls, although party animals, are not required to serve in uniform (unless they volunteer to do so). My husband is a retired AF pilot and my daughter, a 2LT, is an Air Force nurse. Im so proud of them. I feel sorry for Cindy Sheehan's loss, but I do not support her camp out nor her name calling. She dishonors her son and all who serve. She should go home and grieve, but alas I think she likes the publicity too much.
Donna,
Your value system makes you believe/say that "She dishonors her son and all who serve." Her value system as well as others is different, and from my perspective, based on what I know, she believes and feels that there is nothing more honorable that she could do for her son, as well as for everyone else. So she is acting on it.
It is wrong to generally say that "She dishonors her son and all who serve..." without qualifying that statement as coming from your perspective, and that you may actually be wrong in saying it.
Self-delusion breed’s pride, pride breeds the inability to learn.
I encourage you to be careful of what you are proud of, as pride can get in your way of vision and knowledge.
In fact, the recruitment figures are quite low. Here is some data from Oxford Research Group:
"In spite of all of these inducements, the Army has persistently failed to meet its monthly recruitment targets, even when those targets have, on occasions, been lowered. The Army's May recruitment figures were actually some 35% down on the original target figure, and Army National Guard enlistment was down by 29%. Recruiting into the Marine Corps was less badly hit, as was recruitment for the Air Force and Navy, but the Marine Corps is relatively small compared with the Army, and regarded as more of an elite force, and the Air Force and Navy have suffered proportionally far fewer casualties in Iraq than the Army."
http://www.oxfordresearchgroup.org.uk/publications/paulrogers/June05.htm
Recruitment figures have been getting better, only because the services have reduced their targets so that the figures don't look so bad.
Chomsky writes: "States are not moral agents."
August 26th, 2005 at 1:50 pmDonna, I am happy for you and your family and thankful for their contribution and service, however I do not agree that Cindy is dishonoring her son's service or likes publicity to much. First and formost, she and every parent or family who has lost any one in any war has the moral high ground. Just as you and I can speek our minds here in this forum, we can and should question everything our government does in our name. Our constitution does not say as far as I remember, don't ask Bush or any of his administration about what they have or have not done, and if you do you will be smeared. Like Cindy I hold our service personell in very high regard and am furious that even 1 life would be lost for a family vendetta or profit for the Carlile and Hallaburton bunch in office. Taking lives in the 100.000 plus, men women and children and putting our own in harms way is not self defence. And Ben Lauden is where.? Our home land security is worse now than before and most assuredly when they finish closing all these bases, which will cost the tax payers more to close than keep open. One more startling point Bush and Company had cut to the bone vetrans benefits, what's that about.? vetrans are begging for care when they get home, maybe Patty Murry and a few others are finelly opening senators eys to the vet's needs. Yes Donna, you and I should be able to say what we want, but the most important things are to be able to ask the questions, peaceful demonstration when we don't get the answers and impeach the wrong doers.
August 26th, 2005 at 6:46 pm#299 - Those fish tales can be real whoppers - remember when the knock on the door came in Iraq, -or -the "imperialistic" Soviet bloc - or - half of Africa - or - closer to home, that bastion of "progressive action", Cuba or that "paradise" corrupted by Papa Doc and Baby Doc Duvalier - and Red China,, where capitalism is undermining the uni-thinking of the masses. Mercifully, some of these places have been "liberated" as much as some hate to admit it. I get out more than you think - you should travel a bit more widely. And get Cindy a real soap box, please!
August 26th, 2005 at 7:40 pmWell Alexa, I unlike you do not have the money or good health to travel and since I am one of the old working class and do not belong to the un affected right wing radical republicans I must work here at home to attempt better change for our country and around the world. It's good to have a dialogue of all views and also empathy for grieving parents and loved one's. I have never been a sheep and don't believe what any one tells me with out good research. Much of what you mentioned I lived through here in the USA. Cindy and all grieving parents have the same right's as you. Why are you knocking Cindy anyway.? Do those of us that want this war ended and all our military home and safe offend you some how.? I think we would be better served if all our troops were securing our own borders and air space. War is big business and the cost of one life on either side is to high. Have you lost any one to war.? Oh and by the way, do you know where Ben Lauden is?
August 26th, 2005 at 11:02 pmExcus me Alexa I forgot to ask a big favor. If you do know where Ben Lauden is would you be so kind and let Bush and company know or better yet send him a map pin pointing the area. I think Bush and company are lost and since I am not well traveled or well heeled I can't help. Besides the white house never responds to my phone calls or emails, think it has to do with being an anti war, enviromental, free thinking, civil rights old woman. Ya Think? Blessings to all in this forum.
August 26th, 2005 at 11:26 pmThank you, Sharon, for your blessings - I for one, appreciate them! I do not "knock Cindy" for her understandable and heart wrenching grief or for exercising her freedom of speech and protesting the policies of our government. I am critical of Cindy referring to terrorists as "freedom fighters", her lumping Afghanistan and Iraq together, her desired abandonment of Israel, and (finally - but by no means, least) using her son's casket as a soap box. I will be happy to provide her with a new and durable soap box where she can hop on call President Bush a "lying bastard" to her heart's content. Her disagreement with the Bush administration was long before brave Casey's death. She herself remarked (when asked about the disagreement from the 'other family members') that those relatives had always been on the "other side of the fence" politically. Sadly for Cindy, Casey chose to re-enlist. We will never know why he courageously attempted to save others on a mission he volunteered for. My 41 year old "baby" brother just retrurned from his third deployment on August 1st. He served once in Afghanistan and twice in Iraq since 9/11. As for having lost family members in battle, sadly, I tell you, we have lost 5. (The youngest was 20 - the oldest was 26, married with two little girls.) We grieve for them and are immensely proud of them. Like you,I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth to pay for my travels - unlike you, I do not begrudge others who have more than me. I, too, try to be a critical thinker - I read and visit progressives books and sites as well as conservative. As for that murderer, bin Laden, I think he is somewhere on the Afghan/Pakistan border with the aid of other 7th century thinkers. Shalom!!
August 27th, 2005 at 1:40 pmI think old bushie should sent his twin daughters, nephews and nieces over to Iraq. There are 17 of them. None of the Bush children have serviced in the military. Let them come home in a body bag or one or two limbs missing. It's different for the rich. Bush was AWOL at the time of the vietnam war, a coward he is. This also includes the congress, if they had to send their children over there, they wouldn't have voted for this war.
August 27th, 2005 at 7:55 pmAlexa, I thank you for your response. Blessings to you and your family for their service and dedication. I don't begrudge people of wealth and only criticise openly when someone shows total disregard for their fellow man and uses their power and wealth at the expense of less fortunate to further their vendettas or power control. Right wing big business at our militaries expense is not a just cause for the Iraq war and all who have died.Ben Lauden and all who follow him are still the target. Your family is intitled to grieve any way you see fit as Cindy and I are.Cindy's other issues are not enough for me to be a critic. I still remember vivedly my own loss and things people said to me and my responses at the time. We do have many simaraties, altho I post here and am a Democrat most of the time, I to read a lot from the left, right and center, along with NPR and truthful news broadcasts. My thoughts are with you and your family ( all in service or not ) and all our people who have been sent on this dreadful mission. Perhaps the one thing we can gain most is empathy even if we disagree on major issues. Maybe one of our biggest problems as a people is we can't communicate with a bush. This particular bush has been planted in a wealthy garden, accountable to none, arragent and unfeeling and demanded total alegance to the point of distroying his critics. Thank you again and Blessings.
August 27th, 2005 at 9:18 pmWhy are we even supporting the troops? They volunteered for this crap. They WANT TO torture, murder, and maim Like Bill Maher said, "They done picked all the low lying fruit". I wish the anti war crowd would stop allowing Republicons to stop pigeon holing us by setting the talking points.
August 28th, 2005 at 11:26 amMondo, may I differ in oponion and maybe shed a little light on our troops. Most guard and military join to defend our country, further their education and give back something to the world in general.This will be an old womans simplistic version. Going way back our soldiers were protecting their own land and joining up with their neighbors to accomplish that, very soon it became a land grab situation, run out the present owners to take their land, in the case of our first fore fathers when they landed on these shores. Then we came to the civil rights issues of the north and south. I do hope that will never be repeated but given the devider now in the white house the possibility is there.I have left out the hundreds of little and some big wars started and ended by both sides for the land grabs, mineral and spices. Many on both sides can be called freedom fighters, dictators or just plane nut jobs.During Nam and now given our technolegy we should not loose any of our soldiers for war. My unqualified opinion. Given who is now in charge we may be at war with some one in the world forever or untill we run out of troops and resourses.War and relegion are big business. I do not agree that our troops are murders altho they do have to kill. First and formost they have to have total alegance to our country, comander and chief and any one above them in rank to go in and do what is asked for them to do.These qualaties are the core to sucess providing the ones giving the orders use this power wisley and only when absolutely necessary. Here in lies the main problem.Bush is a re hab drunk, arrogant and on a vendetta against Sadam when he came into office. He cares less about Benlauden's where abouts and holds hands with the very arab family that financed the terrorests causing 9/11. I was a young adult during Nam, home, taking care of a family. I agreed with the peace movement but was never then or now ungrateful for our servicemen and women. Treating the troops badly is shameful, it's just their job. Bush or any one in charge at the top are the one's to be held accountable. Even the few bad apples in our service are a cause and effect of the higher up's. Rummy, Bush, Chaney, Rice just to name a few. We have been sold a pack of lies and thousands have died, many more have been injured and unless we get some people in charge with good brain cells we are in for a long enduring mess.Please forgive the length and poor spelling. No one is required to agree with me or I them. We must all get informed and involved for the sake of our country and the world..Blessings
August 28th, 2005 at 12:45 pmSharon, I wish you lived on my block - you seem to be a dear, sweet woman and while we might disagree on some fundamental issues, I treasure your perspective. Thank you!!
August 28th, 2005 at 2:51 pmYour Welcome Alexa and I respect and honor your views as well. I think we would be good neighbors and perhaps friends. I live on a tiny dead end road at a resort in my old motor home that no longer takes me any where but could if the need arrises. I live here for the peace and beauty and the biggie, low rent. Owning land is no longer practical or productive. Ten years of planting my little plot have created an english garden, over grown with morning glories and bird feeders. Funny considering I am 3/4 irish. Since learning to use a free gift of my iMac 2 years ago I have been on a quest of peace and tolerance. Something I was not able to do untill then. One other goal I have had a little sucess at is to sign up people to vote. I do not care how they vote, only that they do. It would be nice if they felt the way I do on many issues but the fact they havent ever voted at all and could bothers me more. Last year I managed to get to old neighbors to sign up for the first time, ever. One 63 year old and another 58. Both were old military men. Sad huh! I signed up and cast my first vote and haven't missed an election since my 21 birthday. For year's I have heard " why vote, it won't make a diffrence". Our percentage of non voters is staggering and to me one is not allowed to complain about the way things are unless they are a voter or joiner in a given process. Well enough of my soap box. Thank you for your reply and kindness...Blessings
August 28th, 2005 at 3:46 pmIf Bin Laden is still alive, then why did the CIA release fake videos with a fake Bin Laden? And why is it that we fear a guy named Zarqawi who's never been seen, never been photographed? The two photos we have of him are both over 7 years old! Zarqawi and Bin Laden are dead. Bin Laden used to work for the CIA. His CIA name was "Tom Osman."
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com
August 28th, 2005 at 5:56 pmMondo, I can't dispute any of this cause I don't know. Would love to have some of your info sources though, can you share where I can get this info. I'm old but still willing to listen and learn, then will make up my own conclusions. One thing I do know is the Saudi prince who held hands with Bush in the garden and the Saudis wife did contribute heavely to all of Ben Laudens bunch of killers. Can't give the sources right now but read about those accounts several years ago. The Bushes are not what the right think they are, never have been. They are a rabid bunch..Blessings
August 28th, 2005 at 6:35 pmi read the first couple of comments and this is what i have to say. Death happens all the time its not like a death in your family will ruin your life. Cindy's son voulenteered for military service. He signed up once to go and die and he was released and he signed up again. He knew what he was getting into and what might happen. Cindy's husband was reported as saying that she is doing this so that she can be in the spotlight. Have you heard the latest sheehan comment Paraphrase: 'I'm insulted that the media is focusing on hurricane Rita so much. there are more important things to report' The response that comes to mind is "like your recent misdemenor and arrest. So as a greiving mother why were you smiling when the police opressed your right to protest by carring you away from the sidewalk you were illegaly blocking. For God's sake go home before you make us all so sick that no one will submit to be your neighbor.
September 27th, 2005 at 10:16 pmordering enquiry
October 21st, 2005 at 8:41 amhello sales,
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kindly response.
thanks.
All this rhetoric about our troops fighting in Iraq to preserve our freedom is non-sense. They are in Iraq as retaliation for 9/11 and the acts of the Saudi misfit Usama Bin Laden. Bin Laden embarrassed the warped little mind of George Bush and voila – thousands of American troops are marching around in a foreign desert saving face. Iraq had a madman at the helm and so do we, but our madman has more toys.
October 30th, 2005 at 4:07 pmhttp://www.guerrillafunk.com/publicenemy/fearofablackplanet/
Fouad
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February 14th, 2007 at 8:31 pm