Top U.S. General in Iraq Backs Timetable for Withdrawal
Top U.S. General in Iraq Backs Timetable for Withdrawal
Sen. Russ Feingold (D-WI) made headlines last week when he announced his support for the United States to set a detailed timetable for withdrawal of American troops from Iraq (a position the majority of Americans support). But this quote that Feingold related on Sunday’s Meet the Press has been virtually ignored:
Let me tell you the conversation I had in the Green Zone [with] one of the top generals in Iraq when I was there with Senator Clinton and Senator McCain. I said, “Off the record, your own view, would it help if we had a timeline to let the world know that we’re not staying here forever?” And this is what he said, verbatim. He said, “Nothing would take the wind out of the sails of the insurgents more than having a timeline in place.”
The media needs to follow up on Feingold’s statement and find out why this general’s advice is being dismissed.
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Nice that Feingold told the general he was “off the record,” then spilled the beans.
Also — what reason again is there to believe that Feingold is telling the truth? Does he normally do that?
August 26th, 2005 at 1:12 pmGO way to try and derail the real topic on the first post. Zombie.
August 26th, 2005 at 1:14 pmWell..”off the record” is still in effect since there is not a name that is put on record doing so. So if you want to prove that someone said this to him then he would have to “out” the source. Nice whirlpool of an arguement there.
August 26th, 2005 at 1:16 pmFeingold has balls — unlike Hillary the Hawk and Joe “MBNA” Biden.
Feingold for President in 02′?
August 26th, 2005 at 1:18 pms/b:
Feingold has balls — unlike Hillary the Hawk and Joe “MBNA†Biden.
Feingold for President in 08′?
August 26th, 2005 at 1:19 pmI like Feingold a lot for ‘08 — he seems to be shaping up as a more appealing “anti-Hillary” than either Edwards or Clark, who I assume would be the other two top contenders now. I think Bayh is DOA, at least in the primaries — he’s just way too conservative.
August 26th, 2005 at 1:26 pmFeingold needs to come out now for withdrawing the troops. See Stan Goff’s explanation of how to do this in two months.
Stan Goff’s plan -
“The Plan: The National Command Authority orders all US forces redeployed out of Iraq within one month and out of the theater in two months. Any commander that fails to meet the deadline will be summarily relieved, and replaced with a commander that will thereby be placed on a shorter timeline. I can promise anyone who has no experience of the military that this is perfectly feasible, and that with that kind of command emphasis, the mission can and will be accomplished.”
http://www.counterpunch.org/goff08252005.html
August 26th, 2005 at 1:35 pmPlease, it’s not about personalities 3 years from now. It’s about Feingold’s core argument: That a large part of the insurgency is FUELED by American boots on their land… consequently, as we leave, that majority of Iraqi nationalists will turn their guns on the kidnapping beheading foreign crazies (who are a minority)…
This debate needs to come into the forefront rather can focusing on slang like “Cut and Run” or “Stay the Course”
August 26th, 2005 at 1:39 pmThat said, Feingold just surpassed Hillary in DailyKos straw poll:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/8/19/14308/9224
Unless he turns out to be too much of a Jewy Jewington for the bigoted south, this guy’s our man.
August 26th, 2005 at 1:42 pmIt is about personalities 3 years from now.
August 26th, 2005 at 1:43 pmBiden, Clinton, Kennedy, et al need to be told – if they don’t stand for withdrawal now, they won’t be standing for election in 3 years. They will be cast onto the rubbish heap of history.
Feingold isn’t “our” man unless he comes out for withdrawal now. NOt later. Now. Forget timetables. Start withdrawing now.
August 26th, 2005 at 1:44 pmDailyKos is another poor excuse for progressivism. Too tied to the Democratic party to be able to see clearly.
August 26th, 2005 at 1:45 pmcmw – I agree, we still are not seeing bold calls for getting out. I would like to see someone besides Paul Hackett say that. But remember, there’s a huge “Stay the Course” populace in the country. HUGE. Let’s both argue with THEM.
August 26th, 2005 at 1:52 pmDartanyon #4
August 26th, 2005 at 2:01 pmI am with you. I think he can win, and I like what I hear from him, and what I see. As much as I like Biden, I think he compromises too much and ends up “Bush-lite” and so the same for Clinton. Edwards is too far away now, with an insufficient curricula vitae, Clark is a good guy, but I don’t hold high hopes — maybe as VP or Sec’y of Defense under Feingold. Bayh is DOA – I hope – he’s way too conservative. Paul Hackett is a dark horse — VP perhaps?
Feingold has a lot of good ideas from a reasonable withdrawal from Iraq to his domestic policies.
August 26th, 2005 at 2:03 pmMarie
“A reasonable withdrawal from Iraq”
and that would be?
withdrawal now
August 26th, 2005 at 2:04 pmI think 2008 is too far out to be making picks. But I believe Feingold is not electable, he will be smeared as “too liberal”. I think Clark is the only sure winner against any republican running.
August 26th, 2005 at 2:06 pmClark?
August 26th, 2005 at 2:08 pmYou’ve got to be kidding. And what is his plan for Iraq? More troops? Withdrawal in a year? The issue is IRaq and any pol that ignores it is to be ignored.
Forget the “cut and run” catch phrase the little connie cowards put out. It’s all about a failed republican administration and republican congress policy approach. They screwed it up from the start and the public is starting to realize this as a whole.
Read General Clark’s op-ed piece in the post, he phrases it right; “More than half the American people now believe that the invasion of Iraq was a mistake. They’re right.†Going on to say “U.S. armed forces still haven’t received resources, restructuring and guidance adequate for the magnitude of the task.†“If the administration won’t adopt a winning strategy, then the American people will be justified in demanding that it bring our troops home.â€
Clark at least has a proposal for Iraq and this should be our starting point. It is republican failures on every front that has brought our country to it’s knees. They need to be labeled what they are total f..king failures at governing!
August 26th, 2005 at 2:10 pmAmen
August 26th, 2005 at 2:16 pmBut he just waffles. He says provide more support or withdraw. That’s not a plan. That’s a waffle. It’s a way to attack Bush while offering nothing of substance.
August 26th, 2005 at 2:17 pmSaying we should either provide more troops or get out is not a plan. REpeat not a plan.
It’s a cowardly way out of facing up to the truth – we should never have gone in, we need to get out now. There is no honor in continuing this insanity.
August 26th, 2005 at 2:18 pmCMW
Just read the op-ed piece. I don’t agree with all he’s saying, but it is a start. We have created a nightmare in Iraq, we can not just pull out without at least repairing the infrastructure. I too was outraged with bush invaiding Iraq, but we have to clean up the sh.t on the floor!
August 26th, 2005 at 2:22 pmYes we can just pull out.
August 26th, 2005 at 2:22 pmWe won’t be cleaning up the sh’t. We’ll be making more sh’t if we stay.
August 26th, 2005 at 2:23 pmrepairing the infrastructure? who will do that? they’ve stolen all the money – including US – they’ll still the rest of it – you are in lala land if you think staying will accomplish anything other than more deaths
August 26th, 2005 at 2:24 pmCMW
You are right we can just pull out. But what of the consquences? I really wish we could just pull out and face the music down the road like Vietnam. However, I really believe we should at least try to fix it. But it’s all academic, dear leader is in charge and will continue to do all the wrong things.
August 26th, 2005 at 2:26 pmAgree with cmw on the point of reconstruction: Iraqis will be glad to clean up the sh’t. They know how to drive trucks, build schools etc. (I bet they drive trucks way better than $1000/hour contractor Joe Schmo). To think they don’t is condescending. We’ll just pay for it.
August 26th, 2005 at 2:27 pmI have a question. Does Cindy Sheehan support the war in Afghanistan? I ask because Chris Matthews says she does not. Is this true?
August 26th, 2005 at 2:27 pmCMW
Man back off, we are on the same side!
August 26th, 2005 at 2:28 pm#26
“repairing the infrastructure? who will do that?”
We all know who will do that. Haliburton.
August 26th, 2005 at 2:28 pm#27
August 26th, 2005 at 2:30 pmwe can’t fix anything because there’s a civil war going on and we’re in the middle of it, our presence is the cause of it. you can’t build infrastructure while being blown up and blowing people up. That’s just crazy talk. THere is no option except to withdraw.
Any other suggestion is just waffling to avoid doing anything at all. Avoid taking a stand. CIndy Sheehan is right. Get out now.
cmw,
What is your motivation for getting out now. Are you so concerned about the deaths of our brave men and women or are you just looking to poke Bush in the eye? While no one wants to see anyone harmed, the numbers have been extremely low when compared to past wars, ie. Vietnam, Korea, WWI, WWII etc. Something 23,000 people die each year from second hand smoke each year in this country, yet I see no outrage from the left at all. They did not chose to smoke yet died from it anyway, while these men and women volunteered to defend our country. I think your motives are purely political. If the democratic party ever hopes to gain back seats in congress or the white house, I think they are going to have to reconsider their position on the war on terror.
August 26th, 2005 at 2:30 pm#29
“I have a question. Does Cindy Sheehan support the war in Afghanistan? I ask because Chris Matthews says she does not. Is this true?”
Why do you keep asking that. Why don’t you go do some research and then post your findings here. Then we will discuss it.
You are only trying to derail the current topic:
Troop withdrawl, good or bad.
August 26th, 2005 at 2:30 pm#31
August 26th, 2005 at 2:31 pmyes halliburton. That’s what Biden Hilary and the rest are thinking too. There’s money to be made on the reconstruction. They are vultures. They care nothing for our children dying.
A little clarification is needed.
My proposal is based upon someone from our side being in charge. Again, it’s all academic, dear leader is in charge and will continue to do all the wrong things.
August 26th, 2005 at 2:31 pm#36
August 26th, 2005 at 2:32 pm“Someone from our side being in charge.” That’s the problem. That’s not a solution
Red
August 26th, 2005 at 2:34 pmIt’s my son’s life (he’s draft age) that’s on the line, and my nephews, and my son’s friends who are in the Marines now.
I don’t give a flying f”k about Bush. He’s a sick maniac. The Dem leaders are just as bad.
I have done my own research. I watched Chris Matthews say on the Today show that Cindy Sheehan that she is against all wars, including the war in Afghanistan. I am assuming that someone on this blog probably knows Cindy and can answer this question.
Re troop withdrawal. Of course we want our troops home. Even if President Bush would announce an immediate withdrawal it would take several months to demobilize due to logistics. I believe General Clark has the right approach.
Why is no one willing to answer the Cindy Sheehan question. It seems to me this is fundamental to her approach. Is she against both the war in Afghanistan and Iraq or just Iraq.
August 26th, 2005 at 2:35 pm#37
Clarify what you mean by “That’s the problem.” ?
August 26th, 2005 at 2:35 pmRed
You are like a little Eichmann. You sit behind the scenes quantifying the dead.
August 26th, 2005 at 2:35 pm#40
August 26th, 2005 at 2:36 pmSomeone from our side being in charge IS the problem now. We’re in charge in Iraq. And that’s the problem.
Red is worse, he is one of these connie cowards who call for war but never serve!
August 26th, 2005 at 2:37 pm#39
It would not take several months to withdraw.
REad Stan Goff’s article please
http://www.counterpunch.org/goff08252005.html
2 months for withdrawal
August 26th, 2005 at 2:38 pmCome on, I meant a progressive in charge.
August 26th, 2005 at 2:38 pmOur side as in Dem/Lib side, not as in US side, cmw.
August 26th, 2005 at 2:39 pmRed – Yeah, the left supports second-hand smoking. That’s why loony lefties like Attorney General Gonzales gave Tobacco companies the shocking $120 billion reward for their $260,000 Bush contributions…
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/07/AR2005060702019.html
August 26th, 2005 at 2:42 pmAs far as Ms. Sheehan’s comment on Afghanistan, I’m pretty sure she meant about not pursueing Osama Been Forgotten.
Satisfied?
August 26th, 2005 at 2:42 pm#45
August 26th, 2005 at 2:42 pmA progressive in charge? In Iraq? That makes no sense. That’s just more of the same. Progressive or not, we have no business controlling Iraq. We can’t control Iraq, which is being proven as we speak. We are in charge and we can’t control it. It is chaos and there is no THERE THERE. There is no phased withdrawal from a civil war. It’s nonsense to talk that way. It’s playing with words, and lives. Pardon me but it is the heighth of arrogance for the Dems to sit around talking about troop buildups, throwing more resources in, doing it right, phased withdrawals, it’s all spin to avoid the truth. It’s a no win.
Something 23,000 people die each year from second hand smoke each year in this country, yet I see no outrage from the left at all.
Then you see nothing. Go to any public building in California and light up if you don’t believe me. We care about lots of things, mistakenly invading a country for bogus reasons just happens to be one of them.
Have you given up on having any credibility?
August 26th, 2005 at 2:43 pmSheehan indeed told Chris that we shouldn’t have invaded Afghanistan.
As for Feingold, he was wishy-washy on Meet the Press about troop withdrawal.
“Look, let’s see if we can remove the troops after we succeed with a series
of steps by the end of December 2006. Let’s see if we can have a target date
that will work.”
MR. GREGORY: But you yourself said just a couple of minutes ago that if we are
not successful by the end of next year, you would agree to extend that deadline.
SEN. FEINGOLD: I said for a limited period. I don’t think it’s indefinite.
August 26th, 2005 at 2:44 pmMR. GREGORY: How long would that period be?
SEN. FEINGOLD: It depends on the circumstance.
“Well, of course, I haven’t proposed a deadline.”
This is a great discussion.
Thesis: I think we all agree going to
AS WE DID, was a huge mistake.
So what now?
It seems:
1) Current course is agreed as disaster
2) Being there is at least part of the problem
3) The potential for getting something stable gets
worse by the day using current plan
4) HUGE enegineering change order MAY create a
move favorable outcome, but may end up similar
to withdraw now.
5) Withdraw now WILL be perceived as a big defeat,
both politically here (Too bad for Bush as it is
his mess), but also abroad with friend and foe alike.
6) Withdraw now or later may be similar and why
August 26th, 2005 at 2:45 pmuse more precious lives and treasure?
Creamy
August 26th, 2005 at 2:45 pmExactly the kind of bs that floats to the surface once you scratch a Dem on Iraq.
And your point is, Mushy Goodness?
August 26th, 2005 at 2:45 pm#52
August 26th, 2005 at 2:48 pmThe rest of the world will breathe a sigh of relief if we were to withdraw now – except for the rich corporate moguls, Blair and a few other fascists. As for most people in the US – they will be very very happy it’s over. The only ones blowing the trumpet of failure will be the neo cons whose egos can’t take the truth.
Now that’s just totally crazy. Cindy has a right to mourn her son and protest the war in Iraq, certainly with some justification. But to say we should never have gone into Afghanistan is just ludicrous. What were we supposed to do after 9/11, sit back and just go to all the funerals of the people who were killed?
Two of my best friends were killed during the collapse of tower 2. America, and indeed the world, had every right to go after al Qaeda in Afghanistan. If Cindy opposes this than consider me out. Can’t support her cause if this is true.
August 26th, 2005 at 2:49 pmCreamy
I agree.
CMW, jesus are you one of the Nader idiots that have nothing constructive to add but utopian views?
August 26th, 2005 at 2:51 pmJosh
Exactly what has been accomplished in Afghanistan? Now we have both the Taliban and the heroin production. Women aren’t any better off. Warlords abound with fresh US money. We are creating more terrorists. And where is Bin Laden?
If we really want to get BIn Laden, we need to invade Saudi Arabia, cause that’s where he is. Living in his mansions. Wake up and smell the coffee.
August 26th, 2005 at 2:54 pmFunny, I only hear Cindy talk about Iraq and I read everything I can from her. Can someone point to a link where she said that we shouldn’t have invaded Afganastan?
See, Cindy wants accountability for Iraq. She wants to know why we are there. She wants to know what the “noble cause” is. We all know the noble cause was regime change, but Bush ain’t going to admit that.
We on the other hand know why we are in Afganastan. That is where bin Laden was after 9/11, giving us every reason to attack the Taliban for harboring terrorists, namely Osama bin Laden.
But, Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, Saddam and bin Laden didn’t/don’t like each other and they were not going to attack the US. We have no reason to be there.
August 26th, 2005 at 2:55 pmCMW
Now I know you are some nut. Bin Laden is nowhere in Saudi Arabia, stay in reality.
August 26th, 2005 at 2:56 pm#57
August 26th, 2005 at 2:56 pmI am the realist. You are the pie in the sky dreamer. YOu believe the bs from the pols about keeping up the good fight. Dream on. Except you go and fight and die and leave my family to live another day.
Why do you CARE what Cindy said about Afghanistan? Was she elected? NO! She’s speaking about Iraq. Keep your eye on the ball!
August 26th, 2005 at 2:58 pm#60
August 26th, 2005 at 2:58 pmHe’s not in Saudi Arabia? Where is he then? And you need to call people nuts when you can’t win your argument. You have no argument. Just bits and pieces of nonsense you want to believe. Dream on but first go join up and fight the good fight.
Your “Nader” outlook doesn’t and won’t get ANYTHING done.
August 26th, 2005 at 3:00 pmI’m with you Spudge, but I hate to leave
the Iraq question for a possible Cindy
quote (out of context, what have you).
Does a Clark-like plan make more sense from
August 26th, 2005 at 3:00 pmboth a military standpoint AND a political
standpoint than immediate withdrawl?
Obviously there must be a time-line, I
never get open ended project end-dates, does
anyone else?
Stay the course is self-fulfilling infinity
Afterthought is right; “Current course is agreed as disaster” “Being there is at least part of the problem”
This is a discussion on the current course of action in Iraq. My argument using Clark is just positioning for the 2006 mid-terms. Once again, everything else is academic until 2008.
August 26th, 2005 at 3:00 pmIt was right to go into Afghanistan, but Bush botched the job there too: (a) Where UBL & his deputies? Where’s Mullah Omar? (b) 3000 innocent dead, 22-year old Taxi driver is beaten to death, perps get 3 months in jail, Afghans are outraged (c) Gitmo & Bagram only increased anger (d) OK, elections went fine, but Karzai has no power over warlords, kidnapping & murders rampant. (e) We lost 65 soldiers in 2005, worst year yet (f) Iraqi tactics being imported to Afg.
Think of all this when Bush hails Afghanistan as a success.
August 26th, 2005 at 3:03 pmCMW
Look as..hole I did fight, I did join, so go f..k yourself!!
August 26th, 2005 at 3:03 pm#64
August 26th, 2005 at 3:03 pmI don’t have a Nader outlook. I don’t care what Nader says. I’m not a Nader fan. I have my own outlook. So quit trying silence people by labeling them and name calling. If you don’t have an argument, just shut up.
Sheehan on Hardball.
August 26th, 2005 at 3:03 pmhttp://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8972147
Don’t cotradict yourself cmw.
August 26th, 2005 at 3:04 pm#68
August 26th, 2005 at 3:05 pmWhat is your problem. Someone doesn’t agree with you and you insult them, call them names. You can’t win that way. No wonder you support Clark and all those pols.
#71
August 26th, 2005 at 3:05 pmExplain? What are you saying?
Well I guess its too late to have a reasoned discussion on this interesting bit of information, however accurate it is…
August 26th, 2005 at 3:06 pmSomeone beats you in your argument. Shows you your arguments are weak, adn you call them “nuts”, a”hole, Nader fans, whatever. YOu aren’t any different than Red and the neocons. In fact, you’re worse, cause you’re in denial.
August 26th, 2005 at 3:06 pmYeah Terry,
I wuz thinking the same thing.
August 26th, 2005 at 3:07 pmThis is exactly what needs to be brought out. That the supposed anti-war Dems are not united. The divisions need to be made clear because if Hilary, Clark et al get their way our children will continue dying for years and years more to come.
August 26th, 2005 at 3:08 pmWhy be so closed-minded cmw?
August 26th, 2005 at 3:08 pmSkid
August 26th, 2005 at 3:09 pmI’m not close minded, you are.
Who has read the whole transcript of Feingold’s appearance (or saw the program) and doesn’t think he was wishy-washy on a time table for troop withdrawal? And why is Nico always selective on evidence to support his/her premise?
August 26th, 2005 at 3:09 pmSKid
August 26th, 2005 at 3:09 pmIf you have a point about the issue, make it, otherwise quit flaming people, that’s my point.
And WHAT have you been doing this ENTIRE post cmw? NOBODY’s ideas are good enough for you.
August 26th, 2005 at 3:11 pmLet me put it this way: Feingold is the ‘least’ wishy-washy among the 100 senators we have today. He has raised the level of debate and deserves credit for that.
August 26th, 2005 at 3:12 pm“Dream on but first go join up and fight the good fight”.
Nothing gets me more upset than people who never served asking others to go join the fight. So don’t even go there CMW.
As for the labeling, I apologize. But when you start poking with your labeling I will hit back HARD. Your arguments seem to me to be scattered. When you mention Osama being in Saudi Arabia, it’s just fringe. You have a valid argument in withdrawal, but you lose all credibility with your other postings.
August 26th, 2005 at 3:13 pmWhat? I’m disagreeing with the points made. Instead coming back with something, people flame when they can’t win. I’m not flaming. Saying stay the course is nonsense is not the same as calling someone an ahole.
Do we need to have a lesson on what constitutes ad hominem attacks? jeez
August 26th, 2005 at 3:13 pmcmw,
The exact correct action AT THIS POINT is
August 26th, 2005 at 3:13 pmthe hard part.
We all agree that:
1) Invading Iraq was a mistake
2) The aftermath is a disaster due to Chimpy
incompetence
3) Remember that with BushCo still in charge the question
IS more positioning than action. That can’t be helped at
least until Jan. 2007.
The problem is you guys who believe in staying the course are so sure of your position, you get all huffy when someone calls you on the bs the pols are spinning. YOu just can’t stand it. So you start flaming to shut people up.
August 26th, 2005 at 3:14 pmAnother important Feingold point: What’s this about if we announce an exit date, the insurgents will “wait us out”? If that were true, why aren’t they stopping the insurgency RIGHT NOW, we would yell “Hoo-yah” & leave, and they would start right up again… I don’t call that wishy-washy, I call that thanks for talking about the nonsensical “wait us out” argument.
August 26th, 2005 at 3:18 pmDid you read the second parapgraph of #64 cmw? I don’t advocate staying the course, but I am willing to consider what the fuck we need to do to get out when/if we can get anyone with a brain to replace BushCo. It won’t happen until we get rid of BushCo because he won’t listen to anything except what ensures his retirement fund via Iraq.
August 26th, 2005 at 3:19 pm#86
If the Democratic or some party does not come out now for immediate withdrawal, we will be in for years and years of this. I lived through LBJ and Vietnam. Hilary threatens to increase troop strengths with a long stay of noblesse oblige as we bestow our superiority onto the dark minions. My disgust at her position is as strong as my disgust for Bush.
Dems need to demand now that the party come out now for immediate withdrawal.
August 26th, 2005 at 3:19 pmI have no concrete position on Iraq other than it is and was a mistake to undertake. This is an open discussion and right now I believe Clark & Feingold have valid arguments. It is all moot, until 2008. We need to take back congress and have subpoena power to expose how this whole mess started.
August 26th, 2005 at 3:20 pmQuestion back toward topic.
August 26th, 2005 at 3:21 pmIf the left screams loudly for immediate
withdrawl, Rove will surely use for
“cut and run” smears.
If Bush cuts and runs for mid-terms (likely)
they can play both fronts in the smear.
How does one take a principled stand without
it being just a grand gesture and a smear target
next year? Remember the left is NOT in charge.
That makes a difference.
Don’t worry smear targets. This is the problem. That’s playing their game.
You have to believe in your position. If you don’t believe in withdrawal now, then don’t support it. But if you do, stand up and take the smears.
Hell I’ve been smeared for 50 years for what I believe.
This isn’t a popularity contest.
What’s lacking in the Democratic party is a leader who has principles and isn’t afraid to take the heat. They keep running around looking for the spin zone.
August 26th, 2005 at 3:24 pmI suggest:
1) Criticize mistakes both going into Iraq
and horrible post planning
2) Plan with concrete time-table (short).
This puts GOP on defensive on 1) and
August 26th, 2005 at 3:26 pmeliminates most of “cut and run” smear.
I hear you cmw, but is immediate withdrawl
August 26th, 2005 at 3:28 pmREALLY a military possibility?
#92
On this we totally agree, we need leadership outside the DLC.
August 26th, 2005 at 3:28 pmWe do have some leaders, like my congressman Kucinich, but in the sophisticated country of ours, being “tiny” and a vegan makes him unelectable…
Read this and call YOUR congressman in the meantime…
http://www.kucinich.us/floor_speeches/iq_face_facts20jul.php
August 26th, 2005 at 3:31 pmI guess what I am saying is that you could have
August 26th, 2005 at 3:31 pmrun in 2004 on immediate withdrawl, but right now
it seems to be just a slogan (I don’t mean
that negatively since I would like the
soldiers home now too, I just don’t know
how to do it from where I sit).
Oops, too late the amendment passed. It’s now practically U.S. law to “Stay the course”
August 26th, 2005 at 3:33 pmFinally. Friday. Whew.
Blogs we mentioned on the air and a ton of good additional reading. From local to around the world, you’ll find something.
August 26th, 2005 at 3:36 pm#94,
Last I checked in the United States of America, elected offices of our leadership WAS and IS a POPULARITY contest.
August 26th, 2005 at 3:42 pmAfterthought
I agree with all your posts today. I think the only thing we can do at this point is to use Iraq as a wedge in 2006. It the finer points of “out now” vs “ordered withdrawal” that need to be hammered out in time for the mid-terms.
August 26th, 2005 at 3:42 pmSkid,
August 26th, 2005 at 3:46 pmI must need coffee, because I’m not getting
your point in #100.
CMW… very strange….Troll?
August 26th, 2005 at 3:47 pm#100 isn’t mine. #102 perhaps?
August 26th, 2005 at 3:53 pmthe numbers dont always match up just to let you guys know. ive gotten confused by it before too.
August 26th, 2005 at 3:57 pmThanks. I thought I was losing my mind,
August 26th, 2005 at 4:02 pmwell I am losing my mind, but at least
I understand the number issue.
I even checked another browser.
I,m referring to who gets the most votes, if you still mean my comment.
August 26th, 2005 at 4:06 pmThis might add to the discussion.
August 26th, 2005 at 4:07 pmFrom Billmon:
http://billmon.org/archives/002114.html
To cmw, that is.
August 26th, 2005 at 4:08 pmThanks Skid. I see why I did’t get it.
August 26th, 2005 at 4:12 pmAfterthought
Billmon makes a good argument for withdrawal, as I read today on tapped Matthew Yglesias quotes the Clash “If I go there will be trouble, but if I stay it will be double”.
But check out MyDD’s post on Clark:
http://www.mydd.com/story/2005/8/26/143249/029#readmore
August 26th, 2005 at 4:25 pmThere’s a lot to be said for Clark’s
position. He does have experience, after all.
If it were my decision right now, an orderly
withdrawl now would be my choice.
Since it is NOT my decision, Clark’s
position makes sense.
Bush is stubborn. Pushing immediate withdrawl
may make him refuse to change strategy.
Maybe Clark’s position can force a change
AND give a good position for 2006 and 2008.
The Clash quote is right on the mark,
August 26th, 2005 at 4:37 pmbut how about some old Stones: “Gonna walk
before they make me run”
That was my whole point in using Clark’s argument, we need a strategy for 2006 & 2008. The republicans f..ked it up for going in and f..ked it up once we were committed.
Now how about Joy Division for all the connies out there: “She’s lost control, again”
August 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pmHaven’t thought of Joy Division in a while. I have it on vinyl but need to get it on disc finally.
August 26th, 2005 at 4:45 pm#112
You may see Bush as stubborn but you what you are actually witnessing is his resolution to the war on terror. He has made a decision fight them over there as opposed to fighting them here. The dems have no hope in ‘08 until they can come up with someone that has the same level of backbone as Bush and as strong on national security.
August 26th, 2005 at 4:50 pmFlypaper is BS Red, even Hitchens said so.
August 26th, 2005 at 4:56 pmRed
Resolute, he is all posture and no dick. Like most connies you need to let your childhood school yard memories go, we know you and dear leader threw like a girl at recess, but acting tough only magnifies your girlish nature. Go breast feed off Chaney’s tit like a good little connie.
August 26th, 2005 at 4:57 pmAre nut-job talking points EVER inoperative?
August 26th, 2005 at 5:00 pmEven the ones that Chimpy finally admits
are BS seem to live on with the nut-jobs.
What’s up with that?
I really think it’s a genetic break in the DNA. Once it get stuck in the neurons they keep repeating the loop. At least a cat gets a second meal from eating it’s own puke.
August 26th, 2005 at 5:08 pmDo try to keep up Red. Nero hac shown much resolution to playing fiddle and look where that got him, as well as Rome.
August 26th, 2005 at 5:11 pmI mentioned this somewhere yesterday, but it is worth repeating. The first thing the US needs to do is revoke the contracts for the US and international corporations doing the work of rebuilding the infrastructure. Congress has this authority and needs to reappropriate the funds and expend them on Iraqi businesses and corporations. The US is spending billions on contract services, many of which are intentionally being used to keep Iraqis out of business. By removing our contractors and rewriting the contracts for Iraqi work we begin to reinvigorate the local and regional economies and repair much of the infrastructure damage without shipping massive amounts of materials and resources from the greedy corporations in the US. This is step one!!
August 26th, 2005 at 5:14 pmSOMETHING INTRIGUING YOU MAY NOT BE AWARE OF
August 26th, 2005 at 6:59 pmPer the map below, it turns out that the vast majority of U.S. military deaths in Iraq have been suffered by the “Sheehan lovin’, latte drinkin’, Volvo drivin’, commie-porn-homo-transvestite-satanist” LIBERAL CENTERS along the two coasts and Chicago. I suspect that, in the chickenhawk eyes of Limbaugh, O’Reilly, Hannity, and Coulter, this makes progressives “unpatriotic losers” since they die so often on the battlefield.
http://icasualties.org/oif/images/US_City.jpg
Bush is a delusional coward. A “resolute” man would correct the course for the sake of his country, regardless of the impact to his own political standing.
There’s a thought strain that military withdrawal will “weaken” America’s image in the world. That thought is absolutely incorrect. Friend and foe alike would see a withdrawal, and will applaud us for doing the right thing. Only then will we regain our moral authority.
August 26th, 2005 at 7:01 pm#122
Of course I would love to say “It’s because the Bushies are sending the Democrats into the war zones, while they keep the Republican soldiers in the cushy jobs!”
But, if you were to overlay a population map over the top of the death map, you would most likely find that the higher concentration of deaths is because more people live in those areas. Which leads to more sign-ups in those areas, more people form those areas going into battle and more dying.
As for being “unpatriotic losers” we can always point out that statistically, there are more liberal soldiers than there are conservative. There are more conservative officers than there are liberal. That is because rich republicans end up being the officers, while inner city minorities are targeted for dying on the battlefield.
I know, I was in the military. These aren’t statistics that I pulled out of my ass, just good old fashion truth.
August 26th, 2005 at 7:14 pmcmw — I was gone for hours.
August 26th, 2005 at 8:56 pmThe longer we are in Iraq, the more I am convinced that we have to get out sooner, not later. I don’t think we can withdraw all the troops within 90 days, but certainly we can start withdrawing now and have them all out in the year 2006. I don’t think it will mean a collapse into chaos in Iraq, any more than it is collapsing into chaos now while we are there. Bush & CO. screwed up terribly to put it mildly, and there is no recourse now. To justify sending more young soldiers to their deaths in order to justify the previous deaths of young soldiers is just illogical to me. I think justification along those lines has been used since the Romans — and recall that no one in history has conquered Iraq.
Hey, kiddies! Here’s your homework assignment for the evening. A Cindy Sheehan poll at the ABC news station in Pensacola, FL is in need of your vote. You might want to vote often, since doing so is a great workout for one’s fingers. Look for the “Extra – Click here to vote” logo to the left.
http://www.weartv.com
TO REFUSE WEBSITE COOKIES, in case this is necessary for multiple voting: 1) Click “Tools” at top of screen 2) Click “Internet Options” 3) Click “Privacy” 4) Click “Edit” 5) Type or paste in http://www.weartv.com 6) Click “Block” 7) Click “OK”
August 26th, 2005 at 9:08 pmHAVE FUN!
f*ck a Cindy Sheehan poll, were all gonna die soon.
August 27th, 2005 at 3:38 pmGeorge Walker Bush is a much, much lower turd than whale dung. Here’s a bit more solid proof for those who wonder how Smirko got to be the most powerful coke-whore on the planet:
CIA, Nazis & the Republican Party
A Fresh Look
by Carla Binion
Investigative reporter Christopher Simpson says in BLOWBACK that after World War II, Nazi émigrés were given CIA subsidies to build a far-right-wing power base in the U.S. These Nazis assumed prominent positions in the Republican Party’s “ethnic outreach committees.” Simpson documents the fact that these Nazis did not come to America as individuals but as part of organized groups with fascist political agendas.
The Nazi agenda did not die along with Adolf Hitler. It moved toAmerica (or a part of it did) and joined the far right of the Republican Party. Simpson shows how the State Department and the CIA put high-ranking Nazis on the intelligence payroll “for their expertise in propaganda and psychological warfare,” among other purposes…
Journalist Russ Bellant (OLD NAZIS, THE NEW RIGHT, AND THE REPUBLICAN PARTY) shows that Laszlo Pasztor, a convicted Nazi war collaborator, built the Republican émigré network. Pasztor, who served as adviser to Republican Paul Weyrich, belonged to the Hungarian Arrow Cross, a group that helped liquidate Hungary’s Jews. Pasztor was founding chairman of the Republican Heritage Groups Council. Two months before the November 1988 presidential election, a small newspaper, Washington Jewish Week, disclosed that a coalition for the Bush campaign included a number of outspoken Nazis and anti-Semites. The article prompted six leaders of Bush’s coalition to resign.
According to Russ Bellant, Nazi collaborators involved in the Republican Party included:
* Radi Slavoff, GOP Heritage Council’s executive director, and head of “Bulgarians for Bush.” Slavoff was a member of a Bulgarian fascist group, and he put together an event in Washington honoring Holocaust denier, Austin App.
* Florian Galdau, director of GOP outreach efforts among Romanians, and head of “Romanians for Bush.” Galdau was once an Iron Guard recruiter, and he defended convicted Nazi war criminal Valerian Trifa.
* Nicholas Nazarenko, leader of a Cossack GOP ethnic unit. Nazarenko was an ex-Waffen SS officer.
* Method Balco, GOP activist. Balco organized yearly memorials for a Nazi puppet regime.
* Walter Melianovich, head of the GOP’s Byelorussian unit. Melianovich worked closely with many Nazi groups.
* Bohdan Fedorak, leader of “Ukrainians for Bush.” Fedorak headed a Nazi group involved in anti-Jewish wartime pogroms.
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