Bush Blames Carter, Reagan, Clinton for 9/11
Bush Blames Carter, Reagan, Clinton for 9/11
As his poll numbers sink, Bush is getting desperate. From his address today in San Diego:
They looked at our response after the hostage crisis in Iran, the bombings of the Marine barracks in Lebanon, the first World Trade Center attack, the killing of American soldiers in Somalia, the destruction of two U.S. embassies in Africa, and the attack on the USS Cole. They concluded that free societies lacked the courage and character to defend themselves against a determined enemy… After September the 11th, 2001, we’ve taught the terrorists a very different lesson: America will not run in defeat and we will not forget our responsibilities.
(Conveniently, Bush doesn’t mention any terrorist attack that occurred during his father’s administration.)
Once upon a time, the President didn’t believe in playing the blame game:
Well, the President is not one that focuses on blame or finger pointing. The President focuses on what we need to do to address challenges.
It appears that statement is inoperative.
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Of course he would blame someone else. It’s not like he would ever take personal responsiblity.
August 30th, 2005 at 1:59 pmI think somebody is spiking his vacation punch.
August 30th, 2005 at 1:59 pmJudd – you simply DO NOT understand the war on terror. You never will. 9/11 was the ultimate crime against America. The hatred that was so common in the Middle East had to be dealt with, whether it be Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Syria – it didn’t matter. We had to go over there and do SOMETHING. If not Iraq, than Iran.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:01 pmTis is not an unusual statement for someone who can’t come up with a single mistake he’s made while in office. F*cktard.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:02 pmNortheast Dilemma — Tell that to the people of Iraq — after you sign up to fight.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:03 pmActually, NED, Sudan would have been a much better choice. That could have been win-win. We liberals get what we want — and end to genocide, and you would get what you want — to kill (rather, have others kill) a bunch of Arabs. Also, Sudan sheltered bin Laden which links them closer to 9/11 than Saddam.
After Afghanistan, which made us look even more invincible in the eyes of our enemies, Bush snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. Our enemies smell blood and it’s in Iraq, not in the peace protests. The botched war in Iraq has now convinced all those who hate us that they can win. Nice going there. Of course Bush is already blaming others for this.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:09 pmNED, you simply do not understand that the hatred caused by our wars of terror against — how many countries have we invaded in our history? — is blowing back on us. Obviously, you also don’t know much about 9/11 except what the growing-even-more-irrational George Bush tells you. And, yes, you seem too eager to send others off to die for your ignorance.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:11 pmNED- you simply DO NOT understand the war on terror. You never will. 9/11 was the ultimate crime against Americans aided and abetted by the likes of Dick “Hung like a Whale” Cheney. The hatred that is so common in the Rabid Far Wacko Right has to be dealt with, whether it be Texass, North Carolina, Oklahoma, or Washington DC- it doesn’t matter. We have to go in there and do SOMETHING. If not Washington DC, then Crawford.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:11 pm#6 – that is a valid point. Sudan would have been a good place to go to. I still think Hussein should have been deposed though – 1991 would have been a better time for that, admittedly.
I finally got a realistic alterantive point of view from this site. Sudan wasn’t even discussed – that was a big mistake on our part.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:12 pmHis psychosis is coming out like a bad case of hives. Oh, was it not Bush Sr. who really killed the Delta and Rangers in Somalia? Yes, it was his direct orders who sent our boys to hunt down the warlord. Chickenhawks squawk and peck but don’t hunt.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:12 pm#7 – what don’t I know about 9/11 that I need to? Enlighten me.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:13 pmwhat are you DOING trolling here looking for trouble NeD? The RNC paying you to do so? Why don’t you go play a little pocket pool with your little green footballs. All you really do in here is buff up our disdain and loathing of the Bushevics and their sad-sack ilk…
August 30th, 2005 at 2:18 pmThe trolls are sick with worry. They know that dear leader is going down and rightfully dragging the GOP down with him. We should keep them warm and quit until the crying subsides.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:25 pmOnly one month till the impeachment march on the W.H.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:29 pmFu#king beautiful.
“We had to go over there and do SOMETHING.”
Well, we did, and that SOMETHING was a military operation so poorly conceived and ineptly planned that a disparate and lightly armed militia still poses a deadly threat to the most advanced military machine in the world.
And now Dubya wants to blame someone else for the failings of his administration – actually he’s just covering for Cheney and the Neocons, but that’s about as much as there is to Chimpy’s job.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:30 pmOn who’s watch did 9/11 happen? I can’t seem to remember who was President on 9/11…
Also, from what I recall George H.W. Bush was head of the CIA during some of the years there were terrorist attacks on U.S. interests.
I guess it was necessary to weed out all those facts to make this hypocritical statement.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:30 pmNeD, you’re right: “9/11 was the ultimate crime against America”.
That’s why it’s shameful that Bush would slander 3 ex-presidents and Americans during that time for lacking the “courage and character”
In fact it’s BUSH that lacked the courage and character to stay after Bin Laden and Zawahiri and Mullah Omar… EVEN AFTER the ultimate crime…
August 30th, 2005 at 2:32 pm“7 – what don’t I know about 9/11 that I need to? Enlighten me. ”
Comment by The Northeast Dilemma — August 30, 2005 @ 2:13 pm
It’s more like what you refuse to accept. But the polls reflect your (conservatives) growing irrelevence to current political discourse (as a continued support for Bush’s Folly clearly demonstrates), and your now-discredited empire-building campaign is running out of willing recruits. That you blather on as recruiting continues to lag shows the bankruptcy of your ill-thought positions. Be all you can be, little man; they’ve ” got some star-spangled nails” ready for you coffin, too, boy (to paraphrase Langston Hughes).
August 30th, 2005 at 2:35 pmWrong NED. Sudan was discussed extensively. Kerry wanted to go in and stop the genocide, to stop the Arab terrorists in Sudan. He made that point in the debates. Amnesty International and plenty of other liberal groups pleaded, begged Bush to do something. Bush did nothing.
You ridiculed Kerry and praised Bush. Now you admit you were wrong? Or will you simply pretend that Sudan was not discussed?
August 30th, 2005 at 2:37 pm“irrelevence to current political discourse”
Sure – with the Senate, House, the White House and the Supreme Court, conservatives are irrelevant. It only gets worse from here.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:38 pmOh, come on, you guys. NED actually concedes one of your points, as well as complimenting the level of discourse, and you guys call him “Troll” and try to chase him off the site.
This is someone who may actually listen to what people here have to say. And this is your chance to calmly, kindly, and rationally help change someone’s mind.
And for the record, why didn’t we go after Saudi Arabia? That’s where 15 of the 19 terrorists were from. Yeah, I know they own most of our country, but still. Makes a lot more sense than Iraq.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:38 pmHow does it feel, NED, letting the most hateful ideologues in the mideast know that a lightly armed militia can stop our army in its tracks?
That’s Bush’s accomplishment in Iraq.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:39 pm#3 you are using the “kick the dog” method — after 9/11, the public wanted to kick somebody — with careful guidance from BushCo., we turned around and kicked Afghanistan and Iraq. “Terra” is not a country, terrorism is an ideology. As the 9/11 alleged terrorists came mainly from Saudi Arabia and Egypt, logically we should have attacked those countries. However, even that makes no sense. It would be like attacking Oklahoma because McVeigh lived there.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:39 pm#18 – then why did Kerry vote for the war?
August 30th, 2005 at 2:39 pmOn whose watch did 9/11 happen indeed.
Dumbya’s, who went from a month’s vacation in Texas to dallying in elementary schools in Florida, because NONE OF THE “GROWN UPS” around the freak wanted him anywhere near the White House running the country, anyway!
And now he’s french-kissing Saudi princes despite the fact that the hijackers were all Saudis. Wrap your “mind” around that, NED the tool.
See you all in D.C. for the IMPEACHMENT SIT IN.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:40 pmGo to the link below and click on the video dated 8/28/05. It’s a speech worth watching, if I may say so myself.
http://www.c-span.org/Search/basic.asp?BasicQueryText=feingold&SortBy=date
August 30th, 2005 at 2:42 pmOur policy regarding Saudi Arabia should have been to give our law enforcement, CIA, and anyone else fighting the WOT full access to any Saudi citizen, by force if necessary. Putting restrictions on the military for political reasons is not how you fight a war.
Rachel, it’s hardly a concession to claim “It was never discussed.” Most of what we hear out of the guy is ha ha ha losers we won you lost losers ha ha ha.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:42 pmIsn’t it well document that the Bush (43) refused to do a reprisal attack after the Cole attack. It took a while to determined the perpetrators and by the time it was determined, the Bush Administration was in charge. But alas, Tax cuts for the rich were far more important back in early 2001.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:43 pm#23 then why did Bush start the war?
The resolution to use force was not a declaration of war, it was an authorization to disarm Saddam (based on Bush’s cooked intelligence according to the British). Since Bush did not remove Saddam’s WMD, I guess Bush did not abide by the resolution Kerry voted for.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:45 pmWhy does ned try to make all threads about him?
And he’s such a dick about it too. I liked that he attacks Judd right off. Real smart move. Keep it up ne-dementia, we’ll see your ass gone.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:47 pmActually, Clinton did take action following the bombings of our embassies in Kenya and Tanzania with air strikes against al Quaeda in both Aghanistan and Sudan. Also, the CIA conducted two covert operations against bin Laden during Clinton’s administration–both of which ended up being scrapped because of the threat of “collateral damage”. Of course collateral damage (killing of innocent civilians) has never been an issue for the Bushies.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:50 pmNED – Kerry voted for the war because he was a spineless wimp who couldn’t take the heat for telling the truth so he shut up.
Still doesn’t make the war right. Nobody said Kerry was great – he was just the better of two bad choices.
NED – I am not mad at you for your opinions, but they *are* uninformed, and that makes me (and alot of people mad). Endeavour to get all the information that you can. I apologize for anyone being rude to you, that sort of thing is not productive. Now if only the other side could be civil, we might just get somewhere… I just wish that more people would follow the Other Golden Rule: Better to keep your mouth shut, and let people *think* you’re a fool, then to open speak and remove all doubt.
NED – When knowledge fills your mind, your soul will speak up and give it’s two cents. You might be surprised what it will tell you.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:52 pm#16 – don’t forget as well that when the Lebanon sh*t was going down in the 80s, Osama was working with the CIA, and in the full knowledge of Cheney, Perle and co who were in the DoD at the time. And of course Saddam was our buddy, hey Rummy!
I guess the one thing Chimpy’s latest brainfart shows is the idea that there is some co-ordinated, centralized and identifiable terror network is bucking faloney. But don’t say that too loudly… Murkins might stop being afraid and God forbid that happens.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:52 pmcynical ex-hippie,
I may be showing my ignorance here, but I don’t remember hearing about a Sudan – bin Laden connection after 9/11. Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Saudi Arabia, yes. Perhaps it was discussed and I missed it; perhaps NED did as well?
I do remember very clearly Kerry talking about Darfur in the 2004 debates, but not prior to that.
I’ve only been a hard-core political junkie for a year or so, so it’s entirely possible that I missed the earlier story about the Sudan.
And since I’ve not posted here before, I wasn’t aware that NED was a frequent visitor. (I know the ones to look out for at americablog, crooksandliars, and kos.) But sometimes it seems that folks are too eager to jump all over every and any wingnut, even if they’re genuinely trying to understand what are almost always very complex issues.
I would hate to think that the leftwing blogosphere would send a moderate scurrying into the welcoming arms of the right.
Just my two cents.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:53 pmthe mendacity of george w. bush is only exceeded by the ability of his supporters to continue defending his dumbass. just wit…hurricane katrina’s devestation will be blamed on clinton, in spite of the draconian cuts bushco. made in army corps. of enigeneering funding indexed to new orleans, and that’s right, hurricane relief…
god help me, i’m definitely not trying to politicize katrina. but pat robertson and jerry fallwell sure will. it’ll be another act of god to punish xyz sinners who PPOSE george bush…in spite of the fact that this is “bush country”…
August 30th, 2005 at 2:54 pm“irrelevence to current political discourseâ€
Sure – with the Senate, House, the White House and the Supreme Court, conservatives are irrelevant. It only gets worse from here.
Comment by The Northeast Dilemma — August 30, 2005 @ 2:38 pm
Hold tight to your memories, for that is all they are. The mid-terms will be where the American people get off the empire express – even major conservatives are jumping off. Buk,Buk, Chicky.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:54 pmIn the 1980s the Reagan administration was advised as to the character of the southern Islamic rebels (as opposed to the northern alliance which had ties to British intelligence). Ollie North chose to ignore those warnings. He thought anal rape and torture of Russian prisoners was nice.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:55 pmBut, Northeast Dilemma, I’m a bit confused. You remark that “hatred that was so common in the Middle East had to be dealt with, whether it be Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Syria – it didn’t matter. We had to go over there and do SOMETHING.”
You mean the U.S.? What authority do we have to do something? Last time I checked, violations were commited against International Law, not U.S. law. Hatred and terrorism have existed forever. The difference between what we had in the 1800’s and today is, back then, the terror was aimed at a temporal benefit or ideal (e.g. change of government, redistribution of wealth) whereas Islamic fundamentalism is geared towards other-worldly benefits (e.g. entrance to Heaven). How do you combat that? How do you win? With guns, or with education? Converesely, if you pick guns when you should have picked education, what will be the fallout?
August 30th, 2005 at 2:55 pm“We had to go over there and do SOMETHING. If not Iraq, than Iran.” is the current policy. And on it’s face it is poor policy, and it has taken on numerous guises.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:55 pmIt worked for the scared people early on, including myself. It is still working on NED.
It’s okay NED, when I was younger I used to shake in my shoes that we’d be nuked by Soviets.
Ned,
A few points:
Kerry voted for War as last resort
We’ve lost credibility everwhere
Bush had his eyes on Iraq since he was Gov. TX
Iran, Saudi Arabia were/are greater threats than Iraq
Iraq had no link to Terrorsim but has in fact become a breeding ground, not to mention the motivation of other would be terrorist world-wide
The much lauded, bold neo-con agenda in Iraq has now created a most unstable Iraq, headed to civil war or a country ruled by the Koran and in bed with Iran.
Now, tell me how Bush has improved things since 9-11?
August 30th, 2005 at 2:57 pmBush said: “They concluded that free societies lacked the courage and character to defend themselves against a determined enemy…”
I disagree with this statement. I believe they felt insignificant because they were not getting a rise out of anyone. That it was merely the cost of oil to have afew attacks from timt to time.
Bush already knows we can’t defeat the culture of suicide bombers and Islamic terror. Yet he keeps going to the “fight terror” well. We’ll see how far it gets him in the history books.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:03 pmSen. Kerry voted to give Bush, as president, the authority to go to war, all other paths exhausted. Now, granted, this was unconstitutional, in that Congress simply can’t give away its own powers. The Dems who voted to do so were morons, IMO.
HOWEVER—Kerry et al.voted the way they did because THEY BELIEVED BUSH’S LIES.
GET THAT?? BUSH LIED to CONGRESS and through his proxies to the U.N.
But I DO like Bush’s reminding the U.S. that 241 Marines died on Reagan’s watch, as he, another one never to see combat, ignored the lesson of Pearl Harbor: don’t put all your military in one easy-target spot.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:09 pm#20
“This is someone [NED] who may actually listen to what people here have to say. And this is your chance to calmly, kindly, and rationally help change someone’s mind.”
You must be new here. NED can’t be taught shit. He is a zombie piece of crap.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:09 pm#23
“#18 – then why did Kerry vote for the war?”
Because he was lied to, just like the rest of Congress.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:10 pmNED is not moderate. He’s a scared punk with an inadequate education and poor upbringing.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:12 pmSo who exactly is dumbya impressing with this new pitch anyhow?
I have to say, I don’t understand where the Einsteins in his administration are going with this.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:12 pmWhat a Dick Most of the perps of those terrorist attacks have been rounded up and sit in prison. It was Republicans that complained when Clinton launched strikes against bin Laden after the embassy bombings. Sheesh.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:15 pmJudd – you simply DO NOT understand the war on terror. You never will. 9/11 was the ultimate crime against America. The hatred that was so common in the Middle East had to be dealt with, whether it be Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Syria – it didn’t matter. We had to go over there and do SOMETHING. If not Iraq, than Iran.
Comment by The Northeast Dilemma
Huh?
The hatred that was so common in the Middle East had to be dealt with, whether it be Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Syria – it didn’t matter. We had to go over there and do SOMETHING. If not Iraq, than Iran.
Chickenhawk with his head cut off.
Almost as bad as a little boots buckaroo going, “Look Daddy! I can pretzeldent better than you!”
Who’s going to pay for this mess? We are. Who’s going to have to clean it up? We are. What are we going to do with the fvcktards who bungled it? Shoot them, I hope, so they don’t breed more.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:17 pmIf my memory serves me correctly, the first foreign-sponsored terrorist attack on American soil (since Pearl Harbor) occurred at the World Trade Center nine WEEKS into Clinton’s first term. By 1996, the engineers of that attack were caught, tried and sentenced to prison- where they still reside.
In the years after that, the Clinton Administration thwarted at least three more major attacks in America, the last being the Millenium Plot. And all of this without killing more than a handful of human beings.
Four YEARS after 9/11, however, the architects of that attack still remain at large; many tens of thousands of humans are dead and crippled; Iraq has been been turned from the most progressive and secular Arab state into another Iran; and Halliburton and Exxon are making record-setting profits (while the poverty rate in America has risen a fourth year in a row).
Yep, NED
August 30th, 2005 at 3:17 pmIf my memory serves me correctly – when the Marine barracks in Beruit (during Reagan)were bombed both Cheney and Rumsfeld were part of the team that decided not to respond to the terrorists.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:18 pmOkay, okay, sometimes it’s hard to keep up with the rapidfire posts. I saw his blog. So NED’s a troll. And, it seems, an active one at that. Sometimes it’s hard to separate trolls from the genuinely ignorant and confused — who may in fact welcome the light.
I haven’t met any personally (much less seen evidence of them on blogs), but I keep hoping.
With Bush’s approval ratings where they are, this would be an excellent time to try to be nice to those wingnuts when we’re explaining how completely they were screwed by their fearless leader. Because now, they may actually listen.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:18 pm[...] Leave it to President Bush to blame Carter, Reagan, and Clinton for 9/11 and other acts of terrorism against the United States and our interests. Whoever is writing these speeches is doing a terrible, terrible hack job. During his first term, a lot of his speeches weren’t necessarily hack jobs, they were just full of good-sounding lies. Now its just illogical bullshit and that ellicits a terribly dramatic reaction–at least to those who fall for it. For people like me, it only infuriates me and makes me want to vomit. [...]
August 30th, 2005 at 3:19 pmI’m assuming this speech was in the context of Japan/WWII. Bush gets his power hard-on and bows his chest out and accidentally improvises from time to time in front of military types.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:19 pmI’m a moderate. I want to kill all radical morons, at home and abroad.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:19 pmBush’s mind also on vacation
Think Progress » Bush Blames Carter, Reagan, Clinton for 9/11
August 30th, 2005 at 3:20 pmBush Blames Carter, Reagan, Clinton for 9/11
As his poll numbers sink, Bush is getting desperate. From his address today in San Diego:
They looked at our response after the hostage cris…
Nice post, Punky.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:21 pm#46 – why did Kerry say that Hussein, in fact, had WMD. He said it before and after Bush became President. Could it be because Hussein did have them.
It’s not unAMerican to oppose the war. it’s unAmerican to call the President a liar before the world when the man you voted for said the same thing. Like John Edwards always said, you people are unAmerican.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:21 pmThe ‘Right’ compulsion is neither a philosopy or ideology. Rather Radical Rightwing Idiotology; convoluted paroxysmal convulsions. Onset includes; stuttering phrase 9/11, 9/11, Iraq, Iraq repeated in sequence, next gasping “Clinton’s fault, Monica Lewinsky, sex, liar, liar,” onto Iraqis WMD’s WMD’s, Mission accomplished, bring it on…,forward to Insurgency, back to Clinton’s fault, Haliburton – Cheney, Clinton’s fault, Hurricane Katrina Clinton’s fault. Recommended prescription relaxing vacation in Baghdad or Kirkuk via volunteer military ‘be all that you can be’ or dirt biking in Crawford Texas.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:23 pm#26 – cynical ex-hippie – “Our policy regarding Saudi Arabia should have been to give our law enforcement, CIA, and anyone else fighting the WOT full access to any Saudi citizen, by force if necessary.”
In the United States? Without probable cause? Interesting view from an ex-hippie…
August 30th, 2005 at 3:24 pmYou’re attempting a nice and inadequate recovery, NED.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:25 pmKerry’s a clown and a poor campaigner.
re: #20
August 30th, 2005 at 3:26 pmI agree with Rachael that instead of beating up on someone who comes onto the site, we should instead hear what they have to say. At the very least, it will help us ALL communicate our differences a little better. There is enough blame to go around that parties and administrations don’t make all that much difference at this point; what we need to be doing is figuring out what we can do to FIX this mess!
Punky: you summed it up nicely.
NED: It’s not unAmerican to call the President a liar when you have proof that he’s lied repeatedly.
It is unAmerican to vilify Kerry for believing that he could trust what a sitting President said.
Although it is hard to believe that anyone was able to swallow this nonsense, either before or after Downing Streeet and PlameGate.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:28 pmWhy do we waste our time with people like NED? They are not open to new ideas or willing to LEARN.
Let’s discuss the CORE SUBJECT (in the case of this post, BUSH trying to blame everybody but himself for 9/11) in each post and ignore the trolls and even the “moderates” (like Rachel).
There are some subjects, that there is NO middle on. Genocide — no middle. Lying to the American people to get what you want — no middle. Ignoring massive numbers of warnings about impending disaster, and then trying to subvert investigations of same that would show your incompetence — no middle.
At some point, you are either a clear-thinking American (Republican or Democrat, conservative or liberal) who does not accept that this administration and the Republicans in congress who support it have ANY standing, or you still believe the lies.
IF we still have any vestige of an honest vote-counting system in the country, then the Republican party will be DECIMATED in the mid-term elections in a manner that will exceed the historical levels.
IF NOT, then hopefully there will be exit polls and parallel elections (see San Diego Mayor’s race) and if the results don’t jibe, people will realize that it is their very, very last chance to stop the establishment of a fascist state in place of our democratic republic, and they will go to the streets and “do an Uzbekistan” until the votes are counted honestly and irregularities investigated and corrected.
September 24 to 26 in Washington is the first step.
November 8, 2006 is the end of the beginning and the beginning of the end of this totally corrupt administration of thieves.
To reclaim our place in the civil society of the world, we will need to withdraw from Iraq and leave it to an international peacekeeping force to try and prevent a three-way civil war. We will need to impeach, try, and convict the war criminals we have in our administration and then turn them over to the world court for trial. We will have to abandon (at massive expense) the military bases we are building in Iraq and show signs that we will be closing our bases in Saudi Arabia. And, of course, we will need to wean ourselves of the tit of oil so that we can weather the (inevitable, historic, and never-ending) crisis that will undoubtedly overcome the Middle East. And somehow, in the midst of all that, we have to recover our national economy (from the biggest surplus in history to the biggest deficit in one Bush) and re-arrange our priorities for education, human services, and scientific research.
Hell, that is going to take one HECK of a strong SEQUENCE of leaders over 8, 12, or even 16 years.
Any ideas? Personally, I can’t see Hillary, Biden, or even Dean (and definitely not Kerry, or McCaine) handling that task.
Charlie L
August 30th, 2005 at 3:28 pmPortland, OR
CLL2001@gmail.com
I think Cynical was alluding to the fact that our attackers were Bush’s friends.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:28 pmThe war in about China, not Iraq. If we didnt’ get into Iraq, Sadam could have made the bed w/China. And we, or any other Western civilization cannot have China be running Iraq. To bad the Prez couldn’t be honest about the war, but with his kind of mentality what would you have expected.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:29 pmCJI
I cannot believe Bush made such a stupid remark. I doubt he said it.
Every participate in all terrorist attacks in USA OR abroad during Clinton 8 years WERE CAPTURED AND PROSECUTED.
Clinton had a massive increase in Anti-Terrorism funding and manpower.
clarence swinney-political historian-burlington nc cwswinney@netzero.net
August 30th, 2005 at 3:30 pmOnce again, Judd gets it wrong.
President Bushh didn’t “blame” anyone. He merely pointed out, quite correctly, that our terrorist enemies drew an incorrect inference of American weakness from the limited nature of America’s responses to several prior terrorist attacks.
Fortunately, President Bush learned from the mistakes of the past (regardless of who made them), and by now he has proven that inference to be totally false. This is one of many reasons why we must stay the course in Iraq. John McCain makes another important part of this argument in the Washington Times, explaining why, Chuck Hagel to the contrary notwithstanding, Iraq is NOT Vietnam.
Judd, your posts are frequently innaccurate, and sometimes downright false. I’ve concluded that you don’t really care about honesty on this site. All you seem to care about is scoring cheap shots and protecting the rear end of John Podesta’s former boss.
I guess being “progressive” means never having to tell the truth.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:30 pmActually NED 9/11 is fairly far down the list in crimes against America. Here are crimes that are above it, (in no particular order)
August 30th, 2005 at 3:34 pm1. The Dubya administration ignoring warning after warning about the growing threat.
2. The Dubya admin. leaving Osama free so they could invade Iraq.
3. The Dubya admin killing tens of thousands of innocent civilians, increasing the hatred for America and increasing the threat of a terrorist attack.
4. The Dubya admin. lying to Congress and the American people to get us into Iraq (see #3)
5. The theft of two Presidential elections and countless Congressional and Senate elections by Diebold etc.
6. The destruction of the American economy by running up massive deficits by giving money to corporations and the ultra-wealthy.
7. The delaying of preparing the US for the imminent threat of peak oil so that there will be massive hardship among the nonwealthy.
8. The destruction of human rights in the US.
9. Building of additional hatred against the US by making torture a common occurrence in violation of international law.
10. The delay of US response to global warming.
11. Encouraging and supporting the outsourcing of good American jobs.
12. — infinity fill in your favorites.
Don’t ignore Rachel, but the rest is good, Charlie L.
It annoys me when people try to cast anybody opposed to this clusterfvck as being soft on anything, or whatever stupid crap they try to pull. I supported the Afghan op, and even Iraq until I found out what we all know now. After we take out radical fundies over there, I’m looking to take them out here. Religion and race got nothing to do with it.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:34 pm#70
August 30th, 2005 at 3:35 pmI agree that we’d all feel alittle better if Bush had simply said: “We need the oil. We need another outpost alongside Israel.”
We would have accepted that then, for sure.
Today he could be saying “The people were for it then, now we can’t get out. Sorry.”
NED and BSer got nothing to say.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:36 pmI forgot a BIG one!
Condoning treason by administration members by promoting them. That is what Dybya meant by “taking appropriate action.”
August 30th, 2005 at 3:36 pm#30- “9/11 was the ultimate crime against America.”
Interesting you call it a “crime” and not an act of war. I’ve been calling it a crime this whole time, committed by criminals, but the Bushniks needed to call it a war to obfuscate the illegality of their pre-planned Iraq invasion.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:36 pm#72
August 30th, 2005 at 3:38 pmMcCain belongs in a mental hospital.
The ReichWingNut Wack-jobs that post here are indeed condoning treason. They fail to realize they have been duped by someone they adore.
Sad, really.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:39 pmso does this include what the republican house/senate led by Newt Gingrich & Ken Starr did to Clinton in their zealot approach to destroy the presidency?
August 30th, 2005 at 3:39 pmIt’s not war. It’s nation building. And this is a treasonous gov’t. Everything they say has to be put in that context. Good job, Judd.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:40 pmHello All!
I wanted to comment edgewise here. I am curious about the connection between the White House and 9/11.
We can safely punch a lot of holes into the “official” story (much like what was done with the Warren Commission report on the Kennedy assisination.) That book has more holes than Swiss cheese.
Can anyone give some credible proof (to take to the media and/or courts and/or Impeachment hearings) that Bush and Co were behind (or at least complicit) in the 9/11 terrorist attacks?
Up until now, most progressives can only hint at it. But, I would like to have the ENTIRE BLOGOSPHERE work together to obtain irrefutable proof that the neocons are behind 9/11.
And if the media refuses to shine the spotlight on it, we will take it to court.
Anyone up to the challenge?
August 30th, 2005 at 3:40 pmRE#3 NED
To understand 9/11 read David Ray Griffins 2 recent books.
Yes 9/11 was a crime, probably aided, abetted or even committed by Bush/Cheney themselves.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:41 pmBut Blue State Red, terrorists did not draw an incorrect inference when they concluded that America’s response to terrorism has been weak over the years because it HAS been weak. This is because, unfortunately, it is very difficult to defend against terrorism and the chance that any one nation’s response to it will be weak is, just as unfortunately, fairly high. But that doesn’t mean that a nation should then indiscriminately attack nations that are merely a very small threat to us especially when the least of those possible threats is terrorism. The place where Bush was in error was when he implied that Carter, Reagan and Clinton did not act as strongly as he has against terrorism. In fact, they acted in stronger fashions and it is Bush who has shown the most weakness in this sphere.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:41 pmClinton did a lot to combat Al Qaeda, but may have some culpability because of the Lewinsky affair, which probably detracted sufficiently from Gore to allow Bush to steal the election. Bush bears ultimate responsibility for not taking terrorism seriously before 9/11.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:43 pmCharlie L:
I had to laugh when I saw your post — I’ve never heard myself described as a “moderate”. And if I may say so, your post smacks of the “You’re either with us, or you’re against us” style of rhetoric.
Trolls are everywhere. You can either ignore them, or rebut them with actual facts. But to respond with ad hominem attacks only fuels the fire, and brings us down to their level.
Can’t we agree to leave that kind of vitriol to the freepers?
August 30th, 2005 at 3:44 pmOy! I don’t think he’s blaming anyone. He’s simply stating that responses in the past were little to none. Is that wrong? Show me if it is. Also, has everyone forgotten that the planning for the 9/11 attacks started more than a year before, when Clinton was in office? I’m not blaming Clinton, just our preparedness in general. Many attacks in history, Perl Harbor comes to mind, were because a nation at peace was simply not expecting aggression. Get a clue!
August 30th, 2005 at 3:44 pm#83
August 30th, 2005 at 3:44 pmI personally think we were attacked on 911 SOLEY because of Bush. I believe it was a strategic move squarely attached to the Bush name.
An addendum to #71 by clarence
Clinton also STOPPED the millenium terrorist attacks, unlike the Bushies and 9/11!
August 30th, 2005 at 3:44 pmdockboy
The Clinton administration passed along info about alQuaida and the Bushies ignored it!
August 30th, 2005 at 3:45 pm#89
August 30th, 2005 at 3:46 pmSM is correct.
“It appears that statement is inoperative.”
One need only look back on those agonizing 9 minutes that President GWB sat as news of the WTC attacks were whispered in his ear to know what that term would eventually mean to its fullest extent.
Lincoln said it best “you cannot fool all the people all the time.”
August 30th, 2005 at 3:46 pmNED
How the hell could you be an uber-right-wing d*ickcheese and like Pearl Jam music? Don’t you know Eddie, Stone, and the rest of those liberal Washingtonians hate Dubya and his war machine? You’re a f*ucking walking contradiction in that regard.
Fight fascism….vote DEMOCRAT!
August 30th, 2005 at 3:47 pmBush’s comments don’t make sense when put into perspective. Bin Laden’s Speach about ‘a foreign prince in arab land’ in which he told his people to kill americans was in response to American troops put into Riyadh. It was the establishment of that base that really set him off. After 9/11 Bush simply removed those troops. So what Bush has really said here is that he cow tows to Bin Laden and other terrorists and gives them what they want, while using it as an excuse to attack and secure oil producing countries.
In other word’s if we were to run Bush’s comments through the ‘Bush De-Fib-ulator’ it would sound more like this. “Yes Bin Laden Your wish is my command”
And that is about right considering that Bin Laden wanted the removal of Saddam and the establishment of an Ilsamic government which is now in place.
Bin Laden 2 : Bush 0
Let’s Impeach this TRAITOR now!
August 30th, 2005 at 3:47 pmDid he mention that the world trade bombers under Clinton are in jail?
August 30th, 2005 at 3:48 pmdoackboy
Also, if you read up on history, Pearl Harbor was NOT a surprise. FDR provoked it and knew it was coming!
August 30th, 2005 at 3:48 pmNeD, you reminded me of a comment by Bill Maher who said “…one of the reasons that they hate us is because we don’t know why they hate us.” In other words, America’s policies towards other nations for a very long time has been “what can we do that’ll appear fair, just, friendly, and humane but in the end secure the very best outcome solely for the U.S. or it’s allies (whom we keep for our own benefit) while increasing our power and influence in the region to, again, turn things our way?” while being almost completely oblivious to the possible outcomes and consquences that such policies have on the people involved. America used to be “the Shining City on the Hill”, a beacon for all who looked for freedom and justice; but it has sold that magnificent ideal for untrammeled power, avarice, and rank corporatism. They hate the U.S. because the American government and various U.S. corporations double-deal these nations constantly, giving huge kickbacks to corrupt government officials, propping up sadistic dictators with weapons so the U.S. can exert it’s power unchallenged in any given region.
One thing I think you haven’t considered is that a very great many people in the world still look up to America as a vision of genuine freedom and liberty, but they now see a very real and very serious disconnect between America’s ideals and words and the policies of the American government; and this is nothing new or unique to the Bush administration, it’s being going on for a very long time — as far back as American corporations began gathering more and more political power unto themselves and exerting it through U.S. foreign policy.
A great many people have gotten fed up with America’s arrogant, me-first, “U.S.A. is Number 1″ attitude, and they’ve decided to take that frustration and hatred out on American civilians and military personnel by attacking them.
I don’t condone in the least what happened on 9/11 or during any attack on innocent people anywhere, but we tend to dehumanize our enemies out of fear or rage and forget they may just have legitimate reasons for opposing us, and bombing the hell out of them for retribution’s sake isn’t the answer because it just feeds and endless cycle of violence. If, for example, the Bush cabal decides to attack Iran’s nuclear program with so-called “mini-nukes” all bets will be off; it will become a virtual certainty that some terrorist group somewhere, either Islamic extremist or another group with sympathy for the terrorist position or Iran. or abject hatred for the U.S. after launching such an attack, will detonate a nuclear weapon inside an American city within two to five years. So then what? Nuking Mecca en masse? Would the terrorists retaliate with a particularly virulent strain of smallpox? Where does it end, NeD? With all of humanity dead? At some point someone has to say “stop”.
I don’t hate the U.S. NeD, I still admire the States for the principles it was based on, and for the vision of Freedom and democracy it once offered the world, and I feel no ill-will towards the American people, who are as wonderful (or awful) as any anywhere. But as an outsider I can tell you that the U.S. has lost it’s way and it has become corrupted with corporate greed and a creeping fascism, especially since Bush and his cronies slimed their way into office. And I think you’d find that most people simply want America to live up to it’s promise rather than be brought to it’s knees.
The “ultimate crime” against America wasn’t 9/11; it’s been the betrayal of American ideals, justice, and the Constitution by a dangerous, fanatical, delusional group of neocon men and women who will use any and all means necessary to create an America that despises the poor, tramples on hard-won freedoms like free speech, a free press, and free elections, tries to turn back the clock on women’s, worker’s, and minority rights, launches unprovoked attacks against lesser nations in order to rape those lands of their resources to benefit an already too-wealthy and too-powerful few while hypocritically declaring it was done for freedom’s sake, and allows religious fanatics to begin to dictate national policy in order to secure greater control over the populace at the behest of the Oval Office. That’s a far worse crime against America than any group of terrorists could ever hope to perpetrate because in doing so more than some buildings and some 3,000 lives are destroyed; an entire nation, it’s people, and it’s legacy to the world will be lost.
Neil H.
Canada
August 30th, 2005 at 3:49 pmmuddMike:
Any of those offenses would be impeachable — if they were committed by a Democrat.
KillCon:
August 30th, 2005 at 3:49 pmThanks for the kind words.
#60: Of course Saddam had WMD –> because we sold them to him! Why isn’t this as much of an issue with ya’ll as it is with me!?!? Rumsfeld was shaking his hand while he was gassing Iranian soldiers with our technology.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:50 pmmuddmike has good point. FDR was Asia imperialist.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:50 pmRichard Clark, Paul O’neil and even that large caliber laser scope loving bastard Pat Robertson have all said that Bush told them he wanted to go to war in IRAQ before 911. The fact that he had Bolton demote , fire or marginalize the inspectors who reported no WMD’s is evidence enough that it was not the truth they were looking for. IRAQ HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH 911. Bush is called a liar because he LIES every day as POLICY. “UnAmerican” is to allow this traitor to run our Country into the shitter and not call him the liar that he is.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:51 pmTook him four years to come up with this excuse. Just think, four years after 1941, the war was over.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:51 pm#89: how can anyone have been prepared for the 911 attacks. even Condi said it was “inconceivable.” yes, certainly a lack of imagination, but, who knew that 3 years from now the martians would drop by to eradicate us. damn president trump! he should have known!
August 30th, 2005 at 3:52 pmWell-said, Neil H! (CLAPPING)
I lived in Winnipeg for three years, about 25 years ago. I’m thinking it’s time to move back.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:53 pmWell you know how it is when your six week vacation gets interupted and then cut two days short. You get kinda loopy.
For all of the complaints that Bush and the entire right make about the French, Bush really likes their vacation laws, FOR HIMSELF!!
August 30th, 2005 at 3:54 pmJudd – you simply DO NOT understand the war on terror. You never will. 9/11 was the ultimate crime against America. The hatred that was so common in the Middle East had to be dealt with, whether it be Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Syria – it didn’t matter. We had to go over there and do SOMETHING. If not Iraq, than Iran.
Comment by The Northeast Dilemma
Absolutely, ND! And in keeping with that theme, I went and “did something”, myself.
I shot my dog.
He was an Afghan.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:55 pm9/11 was manufactured terrorism by americans and israelis. Be under no delusions here. People who still buy into this 19 saudi hijackers bs is insane. Before Bush there was a world trade center. Now there is no WTC. Bush destroyed the WTC…it happened on his watch not carter’s.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:55 pmThere were several memos circulating that there was a plan to use airplanes as bombs during the summer of ‘01. Condi was either negligent in her job as Security Advisor, or she was LYING!. Which is it?
August 30th, 2005 at 3:55 pmWe in Canada are still reeling over the “not guilty” verdicts earlier this year in what was until the 9/11 horro the worst single post-war act of terror ever committed: the Air India bombings in 1985. The judge ruled there was a conspiracy, but that the Mounties went after the wrong defendants. We’re beginning to wonder if there will ever be justice in that case.
I had this in mind when I read Bush’s ridiculous comments; in particular the fact that two lessons NOT learned from Air India resulted in two subsequent acts against the West: Pan Am 103, and 9/11. In the former case, baggage checked but passenger doesn’t show up. In the latter, increased “chatter” but not enough translators at spy agencies.
I decided to run the engine you referred to. How interesting that during Bush 41’s term as Prez, America was hit by acts of terror 16 times. From the day after 9/11 to today, there have been 58 terrorist attacks on American soil under Bush 43’s watch. Fifty-eight.
At least under his father’s watch, most of those who committed acts of terror got caught and did hard time. According to the Justice Department’s own numbers last year, the average sentence for “terrorists” under Dubya was a mere fourteen days, and most of them got busted for immigration irregularities.
Now, as other posters have pointed out, he’s put nearly all his eggs in one country. Will it take another Beirut style attack for the world to finally wake up and realize things have only gotten worse, not better, since 9/11? Yes, we must find OBL and finish him off by any means necessary. Taking a side-trip to Baghdad is not helping in any way in that effort.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:57 pmDon’t blame Condi she only wanted to be the NFL Commissioner anyway. Go Pats!
August 30th, 2005 at 3:57 pmmuddmike:
She was lying. I watched the entire three-hour hearing before the 9/11 commission, and couldn’t believe the garbage she was spewing.
Not only did she lie, she also filibustered every member of the commission. Who, sadly, did not call her on it more than a few times.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:58 pm“And for the record, why didn’t we go after Saudi Arabia? That’s where 15 of the 19 terrorists were from. Yeah, I know they own most of our country, but still. Makes a lot more sense than Iraq.
Comment by Rachel — August 30, 2005 @ 2:38 pm”
Actually the Bush Admin did go after Saudi Arabia…. TO protect them from the victims of 9/11. It was baker Bott that decided it was best to legally defend the saudis from the victims families. Form waht I hear Bush even let them use white house offices to do it.
Republicans are TRAITORS and we all need to realize this and Impeach this growing Cancer.
I hope you read this Ned. Keep it in mind next time you try to politicize 9/11
August 30th, 2005 at 3:58 pmGreat post ThinkingManNeil. I agree 100%. Unfortunately, it’s too long and involves too much for NED to just mull over. He thinks progressives or Democrats are crap so words from a Canadian! Please. NED will just pull one of his 10 responses and change a word or two.
Well thought out Neil. Thanks.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:59 pmaddendum to #103.
Dubya’s neocon trainers planned to invade Iraq, Iran, Syria … in 1998.WHen they get the fool to use nukes on Iran, we can kiss off the US ever recovering. The least response will be a worldwide boycott leading to the complete collapse of the economy.
see: http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf
August 30th, 2005 at 3:59 pmTo Northeast Dilemma…
As someone who’s been living in NYC for nearly 10 years now, I’ll agree with you on one point (and one only) — something had to be done in response to WTC. However, there’s a difference between thoughtful and indiscriminate response — and the option GWB chose, attacking those who were not directly involved, is an example of the latter. You say that hatred for the US is common in the Middle East — what on earth makes you think that attacking Iraq and/or Iran will lessen that instead of exacerbating it? Answer me this question if you can — where is Osama bin Laden, and why isn’t he in custody????
And while we’re on the subject…why is it that all you neocons refer to this as the “War On Terror”? Are you suggesting that we conquer fear itself? Gee, good luck with that…
August 30th, 2005 at 4:00 pm“Wanted Dead Or Alive!” Remember that nugget from 2001? Bush and Bon Jovi sure rocked with that one
So, where is he tough guy?
He killed my friend, not Saddam.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:05 pm#88
The problem I see with this site is that most of the “non-troll” as you like to call us, think that you are superior to us. Can’t you see that is your problem. You consider yourself so elite that you can’t even understand why you are losing elections. So you resort to conspiracy theories and blame Bush and the GOP for stealing elections. If I were in your shoes, I would try to understand why the your message is not hitting home with the majority in America. If liberals continue to run the democratic party, they will run it right into the ground.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:06 pm“why is it that all you neocons refer to this as the “War On Terrorâ€?”– Bluestocking — August 30, 2005 @ 4:00 pm
I thought they were refering to it as the Global struggle against violent Extremeists. ‘GSAVE’
and Bush is no longer a War Time President but a STRUGGLE TIME PRESIDENT as evidenced by his sinking polls
Republicans are TRAITORS Impeach Bush Now
August 30th, 2005 at 4:06 pmAll I can say from where I stand here in Eire is this: wake up and smell the coffins!
August 30th, 2005 at 4:07 pmNeil H., Canada – Well said. Very well said.
Your comments mirror everything I hear from my overseas business partners.
What’s sad is that the ReichWingNut Wack-jobs blabber on as if they know it all and will remain in power forever. In fact, they know nothing and have the maturity of a 3 year old.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:10 pm#120 “Red”
Our country is innately liberal. Bush is a fear president.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:10 pmHaving said that, most on this site probably are superior to average folks. That, of course, does not say much for us…
WHY CAN’T WE ALL FIGURE OUT THAT WE’RE NOT CONS OR LIBS, WE’RE FUCKING AMERICANS! ENOUGH WITH THE LABELS…
DO WE NEED ANOTHER MANASSAS?
August 30th, 2005 at 4:10 pmBlueStocking wrote to NED “You say that hatred for the US is common in the Middle East — what on earth makes you think that attacking Iraq and/or Iran will lessen that instead of exacerbating it? Answer me this question if you can — where is Osama bin Laden, and why isn’t he in custody????”
NED never answers question so you are wasting your breath…I mean keyboard.
BlueStocking also wrote “Are you suggesting that we conquer fear itself?” This is what the Christians were trying to do during the Inquisition. Then scientist found out that viruses caused desease and not witches and blew thier plan out of the water.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:11 pm“All I can say from where I stand here in Eire is this: wake up and smell the coffins!” — Outernet — August 30, 2005 @ 4:07 pm
OUCH!!
But hey with Rush limbaugh Losing 40% of his audience and 62% loss for hannity, maybe people are waking up. and those coffins can be saved shows like Rush and hannity. Also with newspapers dropping Ann Coulters column After She Insulted the HEROS of 9/11 by calling New Yorkers Cowards, I think the world is starting to Realise the Conservatives have gone off the deep end.
Silly Republicans Treason is a Crime. Fire Rove Now!!
August 30th, 2005 at 4:13 pmBrian correct: Guess where Rove got his idea to use fear?
“Naturally the common people don’t want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” Hermann Goering
August 30th, 2005 at 4:14 pm“After September the 11th, 2001, we’ve taught the terrorists a very different lesson”–yes, that if they attack us, we will hammer the crap out of an innocent bystander. Sounds like something that might actually encourage terrorism, to me–especially if you could actually “aim” that response at some particular bystander you have in mind.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:14 pmThe Democrats are just as guilty. The cowardly bastards should have opposed the Fourth Reich (because THAT’s what we have in our country right now) from day one, instead they caved in and let the Republican gangsters rape our country just because ALL they care is to be re-elected.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:15 pmRepublicans actively support but openly deny taking part in treasonous acts.
Pat Robertson calls for the murder of a democractically elected leader of Venezuela.
Is this the true state of American christianity? Yikes! No wonder some people of other faiths don’t like us. American christians act out of fear and loathing when they were taught (originally) to act out of love and kindness.
My, what a difference 2,000 years can make.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:19 pm“After September the 11th, 2001, we’ve taught the terrorists a very different lessonâ€â€“yes, that if they attack us, we will hammer the crap out of an innocent bystander. Sounds like something that might actually encourage terrorism, to me–especially if you could actually “aim†that response at some particular bystander you have in mind. — Bob — August 30, 2005 @ 4:14 pm
You forgot to add that Bush Apeased Bin Laden by moving troops out of Riyadh IMMEDIATELY.
The Lesson Bush Taught Terrorists is that if they want something just blow up and building and then Bush will give them what they want.
Bush Is a Traitor. Impeach him now
August 30th, 2005 at 4:19 pmIMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH! yeah i’m pissed.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:21 pmDisillusioned, Democrate Senators are amoung the richest people in America so they too would like a tax cut. Really, the system has been abused by the likes of special interest (read “coorporations”) groups and MOST polititions for the last 40 years. Now we have the added abuse by Christian Fundamentalists.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:21 pmBush is a traitor. Impeach him now!
Hold the lawless in power accountable for their crimes.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:23 pmDisillusioned: You know as well as I know that change takes time in this country. Clearly the Democrats have simply not had the leadership, or, strike that, the big names, to attract voters. Will our next generation help? Obama will help, but he’s only one guy. What we need are more veterans getting involved in politics. Then the blood won’t flow so easily.
And to those who quickly strike down the idea of voter fraud/stealing elections: it’s kind of hard to get to the bottom of it if nobody in the media questions it. Look at what has happened to civilians that question the absurdity that we all live in: Michael Moore (he’s just fat and hates his country) Cindy Sheehan (15 minutes of fame).
It’s as if we need another nation to come in and tell us what to do. Sound familiar?
August 30th, 2005 at 4:26 pm#23 then why did Bush start the war?
I can’t believe that many of you actually believe that Bush conspired to create 9/11. Do you have any idea how crazy this is? First of all, it took years of planning by Bin Laden to pull it off, which I don’t think would be possible given he didn’t take office until January 20th. Second, are you willing to give him that much credit for masterminding the whole operation? I know, you are going to say Cheney did it. Liberals need to wake up to the fact that Bush did not plan 9/11 and that we are at war. Have you forgotten? Stop living in this fantasy world that you have created for yourselves. Please put aside your political differences with the president for a change. Get over the anger from the 2000 election. We have gotten over Nixon.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:26 pm#18 – then why did Kerry vote for the war?
He was lied to.
It’s really that simple. The President of the United States LIED to Congress. The Office of Special Plans filtered intelligence to remove doubts and only promote theories that fit in with the PNAC plan. The White House and the Bush Administration then took that and presented it as the case for war. As the DSM states, the intelligence was FIXED around policy.
The Bush Administration LIED to Congress. No one thought that after Vietnam a President would LIE to Congress to engulf this nation into a war. They were wrong. It didn’t help that the NY Times and Juddith Miller (and the Wash Post) were cheerleading rather than reporting and questioning the rational for war. The Bush Administration lied and no one in the 4th estate held them up to see what was under the rocks. The system failed.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:27 pmJC God of War wrote “Is this the true state of American christianity? Yikes! No wonder some people of other faiths don’t like us. American christians act out of fear and loathing when they were taught (originally) to act out of love and kindness.
My, what a difference 2,000 years can make. ”
Actually, Jesus instructed all christians to burn anyone that didn’t take his dad as GOD. So, nothings changed in 2000 years. Except that everyone has access to a Bible not just the Priests and higher ups. In fact during the early years on the Inquisition if you had a Bible and weren’t a higher up you got burned at the stake.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:27 pmI believe Bush is losing his grip. Not that he ever had a good understanding of history and international relations, but he is a one-trick pony and the pony has a “bum” leg now. He is stumbling, and soon he will have to be put out to pasture. He desperately grasps for straws to save himself as he slips ever justly lower in public opinion. He connects 9/11 to the war in Iraq. He blames his predecessors for his screwups. He is the Eddie Haskell of the day – to use a Beaver Cleaver analogy. The lies, the screw ups, the smart-alecky remarks and the ever present smirk are all catching up to him — if he were anyone else I might feel a bit sorry for him, but he made a huge mess for the nation with his stupid arrogance, and he should be drummed out of office as soon as possible — 2006 may bring a change in Congress, and with that will come a change in the White House.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:29 pm#138 Most of the logistics were done in 2001. Face facts.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:29 pm#127
Where are you getting your info on Rush’s ratings? Also, just when is Air America going to pay back that “loan” they took to get started?
August 30th, 2005 at 4:29 pm#60
You call me unAmerican? At least I ain’t a chicken hawk that won’t join the military. You’re a loser, who needs to go sign up and fight in Iraq. I prefer chicken shit over chicken hawk, because that is what you are.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:32 pmRed, you’re right. There’s no way Bush had a hand in 911. Look at the way he’s train-wrecked ‘nation-building’ in Iraq (a task he said pre-’00 was not what our military was for). He’s incompetent. If he had been in charge of 911 the planes would have headed north and attacked Quebec.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:33 pm#30 thanks for a coherent reply to the incoherent NED.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:34 pm#33 you are kind, Rachel. But NED is not a reasonable person and he usually tries to steer us off topic so he can spew more bile about Democrats in general.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:37 pmActually, Jesus instructed all christians to burn anyone that didn’t take his dad as GOD. So, nothings changed in 2000 years. Except that everyone has access to a Bible not just the Priests and higher ups. In fact during the early years on the Inquisition if you had a Bible and weren’t a higher up you got burned at the stake.
Comment by Aethiest — August 30, 2005 @ 4:27 pm
Wrong Aethiest (if that is how you spell your name) Jesus was long dead before Christians began burning heretics, as a matter of fact they had to remain underground to escape the Roman leaders.
Read the history of the Netherlands for a recap. Church/Political leaders (like King Philip of Spain and the Duke of Alva) ordered the burnings/beheadings/pressings/etc. — not Jesus.
CHRIST! You need to crack a book.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:37 pmOne more thing…
JESUS WAS A JEW!
NOT A CHRISTIAN!!
shows what an Aethiest knows…
August 30th, 2005 at 4:38 pm#120
I see your point – all these posts taken together can seem very superior and smug, and some of us are undoubtedly guilty of that. But, on the other hand, we do kind of feel like we’re making arguments that seem so obviously sensible, and this is compounded by the fact that half of the country seems to deny the sense in them. It’s not elitist to use logic. We’re not trying to prove we’re great, we’re trying to point out what seems, to us at least, to be an obvious misuse (and abuse) of power that helps nothing and hurts everyone. I don’t mean to speak for everyone, of course, but it seems to me that we sound condescending at times because we feel we’re arguing things that, really, should be self-evident. The condescension naturally comes through because, honestly, it’s hard for us to believe that these points aren’t obvious to everyone.
But, let’s try not to insult each other – even the blowhards – calm reasoning (even if only one-sided), is more in keeping with the principles of debate.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:39 pmAll politicians suck. Get the money out of politics. That might help. A hatural disaster washing DC into the ocean would definitely help, if it caught them napping, which wouldn’t be hard, except they are always on vacation. I would welcome a benificent dictator for a few years, and lots of firing squads.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:39 pmNED…I certainly don’t agree with what you say…but I find it appalling how the liberals…people that are supposed to be so compassionate toward the plights of all of america…somehow have a blindspot when it comes to you. As long as either side just insults the other and tells them to go away, they are each always going to be looked at as idiots who are afraid to face the truth. It’s all about debate folks, not raging anger over someone else expressing their anger. I am extremely liberal…and i do not agree with much of anything that bush has done in his presidency. However, NED…if you want a calm…rational debate, and want to discuss it with someone who isn’t going to resort to calling you silly juvenile names….then by all means email me.
d_dacey@hotmail.com.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:40 pm#52, you’re right — and recall that Clinton did NOT blame poppy Bush for the attack that occurred only weeks after he was in office.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:41 pmTHE GREATEST THREAT TO THE SECURITY AND SURVIVAL OF THE UNITED STATES IS THE DEMOCRAT PARTY AND THE LOONY LEFTISTS WHO RUN IT. LIBERALS ARE NOTHING BUT A BUNCH OF PANSIES WHO WOULD RATHER ROLLOVER AND SURRENDER THAN STAND UP AND FIGHT.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:44 pmOh, crap.
I just took these air force goggles off and realized that the world is burning!
Sorry people.
My bad.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:44 pm#137 – Read “Crossing the Rubicon” and learn how Cheney/Rumsfeld had 6 military exercises running on 9/11. If you are ex-military you will understand the implications.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:44 pm#137 I think you are correct that Bush did not plan 9/11, but he let it happen, either intentionally or through incompetence.
Why did he sart the war? To build Political Capital.
http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0829-22.htm
August 30th, 2005 at 4:45 pmA Nuanced Address: From Jackass to Desperate Jackass
There has been a dearth of posts from me for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is a significant move of immediate family with a smattering of retirement to boot. My absence does not reflect, however, any
August 30th, 2005 at 4:45 pmOh Chris. Can’t use type without caps?
Even I learned how! See?
WwWwWwWw
August 30th, 2005 at 4:45 pmLots of good posts here today in an effort to educate the ignorant, (i.e. NED)but I don’t think he is educable.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:47 pmTHE GREATEST THREAT TO THE SECURITY AND SURVIVAL OF THE UNITED STATES IS THE REPULICAN PARTY AND THE LOONY REICHWINGNUT WACK-JOBS WHO RUN IT. REPUGS ARE NOTHING BUT A BUNCH OF PUSSIES, PANSIES AND CHICKENHAWKS WHO WOULD SEND OTHER PEOPLE’S CHILDERN INTO WAR THAN TO STAND UP AND FIGHT THEMSELVES.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:47 pmCome on Chris!
Ya’ll were so worried about blowjobs back then! Remember?
Wag the dog!
If he bombed away it was just a distraction…
oh yeah, where are the masterminds of the first WTC attack?
IN JAIL
August 30th, 2005 at 4:47 pmLiberals contribute nothing to this country and will never defend this country against anything.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:48 pmDoes anyone else here find that calling the opposing side silly names brings the level of debate down to 3rd grade playground level? Isn’t this precisely the ignorance and stupidity we’re bemoaning?
August 30th, 2005 at 4:48 pmChris #152 It’s great to see that you can read and repeat the neoCON talking points!
Now try using your own brain.
Kennedy and Johnson were Democrats and they got us into Vietnam!
Kerry actually fought in Vietnam unlike the neoCON chickenhawks.
Chris, when are you going to enlist! The Army will take anyone!
August 30th, 2005 at 4:48 pmWhy did Clinton turn down OBL 3 times in 1996?
August 30th, 2005 at 4:49 pmI have served my country, what about you?
August 30th, 2005 at 4:49 pm165
The offer of OBL was never valid – it was put forth by a known liar and fraud.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:50 pmForget the intelligence reports, forget the UN resolutions, forget the warnings of our allies, forget everything.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:50 pmBush ignored everything and COOKED the justifications to invade Iraq and he made the decision to invade 8 months before 9/11. And now, Bush is still exploiting 9/11 to deceive Americans and lying so hard to connect Saddam with 9/11 to justify the invasion.
Are these facts so hard to digest that Americans continue to believe the Bush Pack of Lies that are causing the deaths of innocent people including our soldiers?
We will end up spending more than $1 trillion of taxpayers money to rebuild what we destroyed in Iraq AND TO SAVE GEORGE BUSH’s FACE.
Right on Groat!
The fact that these boards even exist is silly. Nobody can talk to face-to-face anymore without being ignored or shouted-down. So we resort to name-calling on boards like this. People repeat party lines. People freak out at the ignorance and poor spelling and we get “Chris the puss-bag-con” repeating repeating repeating clinton clinton clinton blowjob blowjob blowjob carter carter carter.
It’s simple. Delete these pages and return to the town meetings like in New England. I doubt many of the blowhards would even make a ‘peep’ if their opponent was sitting across from them (w/out a computer screen and 700 miles between them)
August 30th, 2005 at 4:52 pm#145 Marie:
Thanks. In the future, I’ll familiarize myself with the regular posters, and the general dynamic of a blog community before making a comment. Since my first post, I’ve explored thinkprogress.org a bit more, and have found NED’s whimsical touch on just about every thread. But I think Evil Cornbread gives him a run for his money on the Superdome thread. If anything, he’s crazier. Ditto for Mighty Aphrodite.
I can imagine how difficult it is to not respond to comments so clearly intended to provoke you, but it just seems counter-productive. And not worth the time.
#138 met00
Yup, that’s about the size of it.
#148 groat
August 30th, 2005 at 4:52 pmActually, you do speak for me. You just do it more eloquently than I would. Thanks.
Sen. Sumner Wrote “CHRIST! You need to crack a book.”
How about this book : The Bible Deuteronomy Chapter 17 “17:1 You must not sacrifice to him1 a bull or sheep that has a blemish or any other defect, because that is considered offensive2 to the Lord your God. 17:2 Suppose a man or woman is discovered among you—in one of your villages3 that the Lord your God is giving you—who sins before the Lord your God4 and breaks his covenant 17:3 by serving other gods and worshiping them—the sun,5 moon, or any other heavenly bodies which I have not permitted you to worship.6 17:4 When it is reported to you and you hear about it, you must investigate carefully. If it is indeed true that such a disgraceful thing7 is being done in Israel, 17:5 you must bring to your city gate8 that man or woman who has done this wicked thing—that very man or woman—and you must stone that person to death.9 17:6 At the testimony of two or three witnesses they must be executed. They cannot be put to death on the testimony of only one witness. 17:7 The witnesses10 must be first to begin the execution, and then all the people11 are to join in afterward. In this way you will purge evil from among you.”
Sorry Sumner, I guess it was stoning in this version.
Oh and Sorry again my finger slipped typing my name.
Still, the verse shows another contradiction in the Bible. Your attempt at showing me up aside, I try crack a few books a year – mostly non-fiction as I get my fiction from sports. Most recently I cracked “The End of Faith” by Sam Harris.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:53 pmChris.
We all know I haven’t served shit!
Didn’t you read the Swift Boat Newsletter?
August 30th, 2005 at 4:54 pmChris – define “liberal” (without substituting insults for the definition). I find it hard to understand precisely what it is those who bask liberals consider a “liberal” to be. What, for example, does it mean to be “liberal”?
What often happens when debating, I find, is that my opponents counter my criticism of the Bush administrations policies with unrelated attacks on other “liberals” – they’ll cut up Clinton, Kerry, etc. But that’s not the substance of the debate. The debate is about the policies and principles and actions of our current president – not how he stacks up to other presidents. This seems like a sleight of hand trick to take our attention away from the actual argument.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:54 pmThe offer for OBL was valid and Clinton even commented on it in a 2002 speech in Long Island, NY. It is on tape. Clinton said he didn’t take OBL because at the time he didn’t have proof that Bin Laden had committed any crime against the U.S., although he knew in 1995 that Bin Laden was behind the first attack on the WTC.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:55 pmNeD is so funny. #2 – NeD tells Judd he doesn’t understand terrorism. Because NeD the chickenhawk knows ALL ABOUT terrorism. He is obviously an expert and it comes as second nature to him. Neocons are terrorists – plain and simple.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:55 pm173
“bask” should be “bash”.
Oops.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:55 pmChris – I didn’t know about that one. I’ll check that out – thanks!
August 30th, 2005 at 4:56 pmChris and NeD:
Do you know what PLONK means?
**PLONK** you both.
NJBadger, new to this forum
August 30th, 2005 at 4:57 pmTHE GREATEST THREAT TO THE SECURITY AND SURVIVAL OF THE UNITED STATES IS THE DEMOCRAT PARTY AND THE LOONY LEFTISTS WHO RUN IT. LIBERALS ARE NOTHING BUT A BUNCH OF PANSIES WHO WOULD RATHER ROLLOVER AND SURRENDER THAN STAND UP AND FIGHT.
Chris, Well said!
August 30th, 2005 at 4:57 pmAthiest
Again, Jesus did not write the bible. Know King James? He rewrote the damn thing! Quoting Deuteronomy only comes into play if you believe that God wrote the bible.
Being an Athiest, I would think that you would believe otherwise…
August 30th, 2005 at 4:57 pmLiberals are the enemy within.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:58 pm#139, #146 – Actually, Atheist is partially right. If you read St. Thomas of the Light’s material, he says that when he was young the man they called Jesus killed some of his playmates when they made fun of him.
It’s a very disturbing passage in an otherwise fairly enlightened work.
You can read various translations from the Hag Hammadi(sp?) that were unearthed in Egypt in the early part of the 20th century.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:59 pmNeD tries use the ole’ GOP slight of hand, but he is really bad at it. It’s depressing to see, but just think, if he is willing to spew this jibberish for all to see, it can only help the progressive cause. His comments are just ridiculous and obvious. I like to print out his silliness and pass it around the office. He is quite a joke.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:59 pmChris,
I’m a former Marine, 4 years in the infantry. Golf Co. 2nd battalion 8th Marines, 2nd Marine Division, Marine Forces Atlantic.
My career since the corps has been to improve education for all children in this nation.
Go read my posts on other threads, you’ll see that I am as far from conservative as they get.
So as far as your post #162; You could not be more wrong if you actually tried.
August 30th, 2005 at 5:00 pmPres. Bush, the problem is there are far too many people that do believe God wrote the Bible. The Neocons like to quote lots of shit from the Bible as long as it advanced thier agenda. King James rewrote the Bible as did many others before as thier is no clear proof of who wrote the bible (well, parts are known but each original was rewritten by people, perhaps Bush in another life. LOL)
August 30th, 2005 at 5:01 pmChris,
Fighting is not the answer. It never is. All modern wars have ended in negotiations, which leads me to ask, why did you need the war then?
Answer: It’s about the money. All modern wars are about money.
Chomsky writes: “States are not moral agents.”
August 30th, 2005 at 5:03 pmThe real problem is that too many people who thump the Bible (in its various current forms) believe too much based on “faith” and too little based on reality.
August 30th, 2005 at 5:04 pmWell of course it’s Clinton’s fault. Everyone knows he also killed Christ. Just ask Fox News. They have the scoop.
August 30th, 2005 at 5:06 pmPeace through strength.
August 30th, 2005 at 5:09 pmMore on the original posting, Bush doesn’t outright blame anyone but he seems to me to be NOT blaming himself by claiming that he did the right thing by going after the terrorists in Iraq and teaching them a lesson. He is clearly out of touch with reality.
My posts on religion stem from the fact that Bush is very influenced by Extreme Christians and that is something I can’t tolerate above and beyond his dumb ass policies (not just Foreign policy but social and environmental as well)
Enough from me for now (got to walk the dogs).
August 30th, 2005 at 5:10 pmI hate to admit, but Democratic candidates began losing elections when they lost their soul to conventional wisdom as spouted by the DLC.
Or maybe it was just the fact voters old enough during the Great Depression began to die off, a group reliably Democratic.
Yet I can’t help but think about what somone once said of voters.
If given a choice to vote for a true Republican or a DINO, they will always vote for the real McCoy.
Now let’s go and kick butt in Rhode Island, Ohio, New Mexico and Missouri.
August 30th, 2005 at 5:10 pmRe: Iraq force resolution.
Has anyone mentioned that Bush lied about the so-called vote for the Iraq War? He claimed it was a vote to “keep the peace”.
Here it is, directly from the White House website:
Q Mr. President, how important is it that that resolution give you an authorization of the use of force?
THE PRESIDENT: That will be part of the resolution, the authorization to use force. If you want to keep the peace, you’ve got to have the authorization to use force. But it’s — this will be — this is a chance for Congress to indicate support. It’s a chance for Congress to say, we support the administration’s ability to keep the peace. That’s what this is all about.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/09/20020919-1.html
August 30th, 2005 at 5:10 pmI loved it when Bush The Smarter commented at the opening of the Clinton library that Bill had made the job of President look so easy. Bill did a great job. He let his “little brain” do a little too much thinking about the Blue Dress. But other than that, he ran rings around the Bushs.
It really showed just how hard the job is and how hard Bush The Smarter felt he had to work to hold things together.
Now his son, Bush The Stupid, doesn’t even try to look busy. He simply goes on vacation and leaves the bodies to pile high in Iraq.
August 30th, 2005 at 5:11 pmDesperation breeds lies in Bush.
Not only is he a poor student of history in general, but even of his own presidential campaigns! This from the 2000 Democratic Party platform, after which, as we will all recall, Bush ignored the advice of the intelligence community that he mount greater efforts against terrorism. He’s just still trying to cover his a** to hide his embarassment that the Democrats had a prescient handle on it and he had no clue. Here’s the Democratic position about terrorism in 2000:
“Battling Terrorism. Whether terrorism is sponsored by a foreign nation or inspired by a single fanatic individual, such as Osama Bin Laden, Forward Engagement requires trying to disrupt terrorist networks, even before they are ready to attack. We must improve coordination internationally and domestically to share intelligence and develop operational plans. We must continue the comprehensive approach that has resulted in the development of a national counter-terrorism strategy involving all arms and levels of our government. We must continue to target terrorist finances, break up support cells, and disrupt training. And we must close avenues of cyber-attack by improving the security of the Internet and the computers upon which our digital economy exists.
As President, Al Gore will tolerate no attack against American interests at home or abroad: terrorists must know that if they attack America, we will never forget. We will scour the world to hunt them down and bring them to justice.
While fighting terrorism, we will protect the civil liberties of all Americans. Our justice system must guarantee fairness with procedures that protect the rights of the accused, even under the unusual circumstances of the investigation of threats to our national security. We must avoid stereotyping, for it defeats the highest purposes of our country if citizens feel automatically suspect by virtue of their ethnic origin. The purpose of terrorism is not only to intimidate, but also to divide and fracture, and we cannot permit that to happen.”
August 30th, 2005 at 5:11 pmOh I forgot. I wish everyone in Katrina’s wake all the best.
August 30th, 2005 at 5:12 pmThe Bible and the Quran were created to scare people to SUBMISSION so they can be easily controlled. They are both fictions/mythical.
August 30th, 2005 at 5:13 pmThe biblical God was a violent God who committed genocides.
God’s GENOCIDES … using flood to kill and destroy everything on Earth except the passengers of Noah’s ark … Killing all the first borns of Egypt … Destroying Sodom and Gomorrah … if the Bible is true, then God is a murderer.
Are these facts or fictions: Moses PARTED the Red Sea, the Nile River turned to BLOOD, Eve talked to and obeyed a TALKING SNAKE, Eve came from one of Adam’s ribs, Jonah was swallowed by a whale and survived, Lot’s wife turned into a PILLAR of salt and Samson’s source of strength is his long hair. There are many more in the bible.
Elvis: #186 Right on about war. Here are some quotes about war from some military men and Prsidents.
“Our government has kept us in a perpetual state of fear – kept us in a continuous stampede of patriotic fervor – with the cry of grave national emergency. Always there has been some terrible evil at home or some monstrous foreign power that was going to gobble us up if we did not blindly rally behind it …” — General Douglas MacArthur, 1957
“Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.” Dwight D. Eisenhower:
“America’s leadership and prestige depend, not merely upon our unmatched material progress, riches and military strength, but on how we use our power in the interests of world peace and human betterment.” Dwight D. Eisenhower
“In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.” Dwight D. Eisenhower
“War is a racket. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives.”
~General Smedley Butler Marine Corps.
“Chauvinism is a proud and bellicose form of patriotism…which identifies numerous enemies who can only be dealt with through military power…”
~Colonel James A. Donovan, Marine Corps
“I can tell you this: If I’m ever in a position to call the shots, I’m not going to rush to send somebody else’s kids into a war.”
August 30th, 2005 at 5:13 pm~George H. W. Bush
#194 – the reason Bush The Stupid and Co ignored the intelligence community is that they didn’t believe their estimates. They felt the CIA had done them wrong during GW1 by underestimating the amount of war material Iraq had.
So when they stole their way into power in 2000, they had no intention of using anything the CIA ever gave them. Why? Because BushCo felt they _knew_ better (based on GW1).
That they were sooooo wrong and invaded a county that could do us no harm only serves to underscore just how badly BushCo has bungled this “War on Terror”.
August 30th, 2005 at 5:16 pm#175 yeah chris back then we still believed in this thing called due process, and we were naive enough that we wanted to make sure we were bombing the right people. Fact is, if Sudan didn’t double cross us (in which case Clinton would be lambasted for negotiating with terrorists), we would have needed to put bin Laden on trial — this was before the days when we could just throw someone in jail indefinitely without making a case.
Bush changed all that, didn’t he? Are you happier with this new legal system? Maybe you think we should have done away with due process a long time ago, and Clinton was just a big pussy for obeying the law like a President is supposed to.
Bush said 9/11 changed everything. Did it or didn’t it? If it did, don’t blame Clinton for following the law. If it didn’t, then Bush was right about a dictatorship being easier.
August 30th, 2005 at 5:18 pmto PJ #121
Actually Bush went back to “war on terror” after he couldn’t stop hitting himself during the “struggle against violent extremists.”
August 30th, 2005 at 5:19 pmNo, Bush never directly blames his predecessors. That is done through his supporters, right wing pundits, and whisper campaigns. Bush insists he is taking the high road. Classic Karl Rove.
August 30th, 2005 at 5:22 pmI think I can explain part of my theory on Bush Co behind 9/11.
It began in 1991. Neo cons were angry that Bush Sr. stopped north of Basra. They plotted to pick up the war after Bush Sr. won the 1992 elections.
Well, he lost. And to an unknown as well. The neo cons were angry as H**L at losing.
Since that day in November 1992, they’ve had almost a decade to prepare the 9/11 terrorist attack. To protect Saudi Arabia, Osama moved to Afghanistan in 1996. That’s where he began his jihad on America.
Bush’s and bin Laden’s families go back decades. That’s the connection.
2000 saw the usurption to power. It was a part of the neo con plan.
The rest is history. This was not an overnight attack plan. It was planned years before by the neo cons (Karl Rove?), Osama and the Saudi Royal Family.
I am currently looking to put together the formal legal case.
By the way, in the summer of 2000, Clinton had the Ambassador to Pakistan offer the Taliban (who wanted to be our friends) normalization, reconciliation and aid… all in exchange for turning Osama over to the USA. The Taliban foolishly rejected this offer.
Since the 2000 elections, we’re all wearing Monica’s Blue Dress.
August 30th, 2005 at 5:23 pmBush is a moron and his supporters are either morons or greedy and dishonest.
Ned and his other sheep friends are heavily influenced by the right wing media machine. They are not interested in the truth because the truth would upset their incorrect world view.
They have been taught to hate ‘liberals’, even though they don’t even know what that means. To them, anyone who sees through the Bush BS is a ‘liberal’, and therefore subject to scorn.
People like them are the reason country music is popular, show like Survivor and American Idol have ANY fan base, and they are the types that keep idiots in power.
August 30th, 2005 at 5:25 pmTo Ranting Tommy #203
The rgiht wing has also redefined “liberal” as anyone to the left of Atilla the Hun, or who disagrees with anything the President does or says.
Here is a quote from the last great Republican President:
“That we are to stand by the president, right or wrong is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
August 30th, 2005 at 5:28 pm~Theodore Roosevelt
Gov. George W. Bush (R-TX) about Kosovo … Victory means exit strategy, and it’s important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is.
Sen. Richard Lugar (R-IN) about Kosovo … This is President Clinton’s war, and when he falls flat on his face, that’s his problem.
Geroge W. Bush is falling flat on his face. He is sacrificing innocent lives including our soldiers and spending taxpayers money TO SAVE HIS FACE.
August 30th, 2005 at 5:34 pmBush is a panty waisted oil rich fag who never had a real job in the real world. We’re unprotected because he sent the National Guard southern boys to fight a war for the future of his oil companies friends and THEIR future not YOURS you stupid Republican scumbags!!!!!!!!!! COme out and fight punk ass. We’ll see what shape your really in.
August 30th, 2005 at 5:36 pmLet’s leave politics aside for a second. “W” went to war on cooked “evidence”, which is a war crime. That is a fact. Regardless, it is now 4 years after 9/11. Four years after WWII, Germany and Japan were occupied and trials and rebuilding underway. Where is Osama? Every time Bush brings up 9/11, let’s remember that he is admitting failure…nothing has been accomplished in 4 years–even the much more reasonable invasion of Afghanistan has been tainted by Bagram, opium and the resurrection of the Taliban. This is not a political issue, it is about America as an outlaw nation. Whatever is done to “finish up” in Iraq must be done with the UN, NATO and other (former?) US allies, for the sake of trying to restore US morality. Until that time, there is precious little that disambiguates the US from North Korea, except for the power of the US to impose its evil will.
August 30th, 2005 at 5:38 pmAddendum to #205 Ann:
Remember how many Americans died in Bosnia and Kosovo?
ZERO! NONE! ZIP!
They went in with overwhelming force like the military wanted to do in Iraq!
August 30th, 2005 at 5:40 pmJudd. Your an idiot. 9/11 happened because Bush and his murdering, treasonous, cronies allowed it, in fact, wanted it to happen. They new it would a catalyst for aggression against the middle east, specifically, Iraq to start, and the start of their quest for PNAC. These bastards are destroying every aspect of this country; the tens of thousands who have and will continue to die/be mained in Iraq; our country’s status has gone from the greatest symbol of freedom in the world to that of an arrogant power hungry butcher of countries that do not adhere/succum to our government’s policies; Bushes continued value of corporate profits over the reversal of global warming and restorationa nd preservation of our environment could devestate this planet. He doesn’t even care enough for his own children and future generations of his family enough to care about the future of our planet. The dumb bastard could go down as, not only, the Butcher of Bagdad and the rest of Iraq, he could go down as the man that killed the world.
August 30th, 2005 at 5:40 pmVenezuela offerred oil to USA at lower price to help americans and Pat Robertson called for the assassination of the venezuelan president … WOW
For the latest technique in assassinating world leaders, homosexuals and pro-choice people … please CONTACT Bush Culture of Life close friends … Robertson, Falwell and Dobson of the TALIBAN CHURCH OF GOD’s ASSASSINS
August 30th, 2005 at 5:41 pmthanks for your input NED it is very helpful PLEASE keep it up. You see NED every knock is a boost especially when it is all based on LIES like GWMD BUSH does. he lied many died SHAME on him If anyone ever believes him again SHAME on them as well as you NED
August 30th, 2005 at 5:43 pmthanks for your input NED it is very helpful PLEASE keep it up. You see NED every knock is a boost especially when it is all based on LIES like GWMD BUSH does.
August 30th, 2005 at 5:44 pmBone a Me.The bushistas are in up to their eyeballs and everything is looking like dodo.Pat Buchanan called for georgies IMPEACHMENT today.georgie boy said he could see the light at the end of the
August 30th, 2005 at 5:44 pmtunnel,the problem,it was a train comming.
When did the USA know for sure that the USS Cole bombing was done by Al Qaida? Seeing as how the bombing took place 2 weeks before the 2000 elections, and all the “wagging the dog” criticism of Clinton, can’t it be argued that it was GW who failed to respond to the Cole bombing, and not Clinton?
August 30th, 2005 at 5:46 pmOr at least equally responsible?
Typical for a “C-”loser who has no control over his life, run by Rove/Cheney. Also his financial bunglings; his oil company and TX Rangers deal. Now he blames past administrations for his own failings when the information was passed to him on the proverbial silver platter. Next he’ll blame the pedestrian for running into him while he was riding his bike in Scotland and he’ll blame the slickery mud or tree branch for making him face-plant on his nountain bike. He should blame God for not invoking His Lordly “Intelligent Falling” powers to keep “W” (for weinie) from augering. Such a wanker.
August 30th, 2005 at 6:06 pmCondi Rice admitted to the 9/11 Comission that she and Bush chose not to respond to the Cole bombing.
August 30th, 2005 at 6:10 pmI posted three hours ago at #65 suggesting we find a way to FIX the mess we find ourselves in. Three hours and 148 posts later, all I see is continued name-calling with not the first idea of how to fix anything.
August 30th, 2005 at 6:13 pmIt’s no wonder we’re not getting anything accomplished. No one from either party is willing to work with anyone of the other party for fear of risking censure by those in his own party. Until that changes, all we’re doing is pounding our keyboards.
we must be punished for electing an idiot. Since he never made a mistake he obviously dosen’t know right from wrong. History will record that this person was the worst leader since–since–EVER!
August 30th, 2005 at 6:16 pm#217, please see posting #207. Your point is well-taken…neither party is ostensibly capable of getting anything accomplished. The world has changed, and the US must get other nations involved…and not as puppets.
Also, as far as Iraq goes, as posted on http://www.thebite.blogspot.com many weeks ago, the only current solution is, paradoxically, to split Iraq into three countries. This Balkanization replaces the current evil with a lesser evil (nationalism) but it will reduce the bloodshed–and it (Balkanization) will happen anyway, so why not have the US get the credit and save a little face?
August 30th, 2005 at 6:18 pmHave all you Yankees lost your minds or just your memory’s. Mueller, FBI Capo, said just after 911 that there was no ‘paper trail’ identifying the supposed hi-jackers;all ID found was forged or stolen.He said the FBI had no idea who the hijackers were. At least 8 of the named perpetrators were found to be alive and well,living in various countries in the Muslim world. “The Independent” newspaper interviewed them except for the one who died before 911.So how do you know that they were mostly Saudis? You fools of both Left and Right have been fooled by the repetition of a ‘Big’ lie. Now that lie is accepted as truth while you go on about subsequent events as though the basis was true.You are hated in Iraq because you have murdered a large part of the population. Remember Madeliene Albright’s answer to Lesley Stahl’s Q. Is the death of 500,000 Iraqi children by sanction caused disease and violence ‘a price worth paying’ ” We think it was worth it” Is 500,000 dead children not a ‘holocaust’?Your country is so mental now that you can’t even see that you are close to the conditions that will cause another Civil War within the U.S.A. Your idea of ‘War” is now merely slaughter of poorly armed foriegners, preferably from a very high altitude. Don’t worry when you slink home from this latest debacle you will be looking for someone to blame. Your partner in crime Israel will probably be chosen and you will turn on the Jews,just like so many other deranged societies have done before your country was built on the corpses of the original inhabitants of the new world. You are hated because you are stupid and violent weapon makers who could have bought every drop of oil in Iraq for much less than this latest war has cost already.You are destroying the hope of the world,that a real free country can exist at peace. Do you even understand how many people you have killed and maimed in the last 60 years,including your own? Wake up you assholes and smell the rotting corpse of freedom!Denis Foley.
August 30th, 2005 at 6:19 pm#217 – Impeach Bush. Install true leaders. The only way to move forward is to actively remove the greedy bastards.
Short of that, we must ensure that elections have a paper trail.
Short of that… I shudder to think. Though Canada or Italy aren’t looking 1/2 bad at this point…
August 30th, 2005 at 6:20 pm#220 – well said. Thank you.
August 30th, 2005 at 6:22 pmI wish all those Xtians would stop misquoting the Torah. You have already desecrated one of the greatest books of wisdom ever. Why do the Xtians feel a need to justify their sins by quoting from the Torah {Old Testament to you xtians}. Sure, Atheist quoted from Deuteronomy, but what he quoted sounded completely rational to me. In judaism, we support the idea that there is good and evil, compelled by the Yetzer Hara and the Yetzer Tov {Evil inclination/Good inclination}. When a soul is bound to the evil inclination and sins before the community, specifically before two witnesses, they may be subject to the death penalty. I believe that there are a few people who deserve the death penalty today, including the BTK killer amonst others. Someone who sins, and knows they are sinning, is a worse sinner than one who sins unknowningly.
Some of you may argue that there is no such thing as sin. To you, I feel sorry for your situation. In a world devoid of right and wrong, where everything is OK, is a hateful and spiteful world. Terrorism is wrong, murder is wrong, killing innocent people is wrong. Creating peace, loving your neighbor, helping to improve the world, teaching others about Torah is good.
I want the world to live in peace. The only way to peace is to identify evil and rebuke it. I now Rebuke what the Bush administration has done. I truely believe that Bush is evil. That said, I also believe what Atheist is doing is evil. I am a victim of terrorism and yet I want to proceed in a well thought out manner to make the world a better place, one in which terrorism is abolished.
Bush is evil because he is not motivated by what is right or wrong, or by what is in the best interest of the majority of Americans. He is motivated by the interests of his cronies, his fathers cronies, and his fathers fathers cronies. He is interested in their financial gains and their fame. This is the sin of Greed. Bush is also very arrogant, having never admitted that he made a mistake. This is the sin of Arrogance, one which the Lord takes very, very seriously.
Also, simply quoting passages out of the Torah doesn’t make you a scholar. Particular passages, taken out of context, totally misrepresent the idea of the portion. Atheist attempts to impress us with his knowledge of scripture, yet he only increases my feeling that he doesn’t get the whole picture because he is looking for simple passages to support his argument.
It is true that the death penalty is an option, but several times in the Torah the death penalty is mentioned, but it was never carried out. I support the death penalty in cases where the witnesses and the evidence support it.
I pray that you soon learn how to live in peace. If you do, there may be hope for the world…
Thank you,
August 30th, 2005 at 6:22 pmMichael
Visit NED at these other fine sites while I call a friend I know who will “fix it” for them.
http://nerepublican.blogspot.com/
http://theyhateamerica.blogspot.com/
August 30th, 2005 at 6:29 pmAlso, the only reports about non-Saudi hijackers appear to come from vividly Antisemetic websites. It is pure lunacy…
Here is a site which names the hijackers:
http://www.sptimes.com/2002/09/01/911/plotters.shtml
And here is a ‘conspiracy theory’ site:
http://www.rense.com/general18/werethe911hijackers.htm
You judge which site should be believed…
Thank you,
August 30th, 2005 at 6:30 pmMichael
How about, instead of linking to a resource that lists, ostensibly, every terrorist action ever, you actually demonstrate some terrorist actions that occured from 1989 thru 1992 that are on par with the ones mentioned in Bush’s speech, perhaps to better buttress your point, because digging through pages of Basque and Palestinian Terrorist actions is making me believe that I’ll never find one action that qualifies in support of your thesis.
Which really makes your thesis moot, being that your next resource is a statement made with regards to who should take blame for the recession that was, at the time, ending, with the implication that Bush should take blame, or that he should blame Clinton.
The Marine barracks incident happened on Reagan’s watch. Insinuating that Bush is laying blame for those incidents in his speech is borderline to smearing, which I had thought this website was good at detecting and denouncing, but perhaps I was wrong.
August 30th, 2005 at 6:34 pmI posted three hours ago at #65 suggesting we find a way to FIX the mess we find ourselves in. Three hours and 148 posts later, all I see is continued name-calling with not the first idea of how to fix anything.
It’s no wonder we’re not getting anything accomplished. No one from either party is willing to work with anyone of the other party for fear of risking censure by those in his own party. Until that changes, all we’re doing is pounding our keyboards.
Dude, there ain’t no parties. There are Americans and then there are people who still support Bush. Of those that still support that moron, about 30% now of the population comprised of wingnut racist trailer trash, militia queers, and chickenhawk clowns like NED and other young Republican retards and the super elite and corporate whores. 2006 and 2008 can’t come too soon.
August 30th, 2005 at 6:34 pmAn Appropriate Apocryphal Story:
(Anyone Who’s Seen The Movie “Traffic Will Recognize It)
“When Khruschev was leaving office, he said to his successor, ‘Here are two letters. The first time you are in trouble, open the first one. The second time, open the second one.’ So, time goes on, and the successor gets into trouble. He opens the letter. It reads, ‘Blame Your Predecessors.’ So he does, and gets out of trouble. The second time trouble comes around, he opens the second one. It reads, ‘Sit down and write two letters.’”
Sounds like first letter time to me. ‘Cept maybe this is like, forty-second letter time.
August 30th, 2005 at 6:38 pmChris,
#189 – What makes you think that “peace through strength” actually works? Has is worked yet? Have we not had the most powerful armed forces in the world for the last 60 years? Yet there still isn’t peace. Why?
Because those who have you convinced that “the best defense is a strong offense” or “peace through strength” are the best answers, are the very people who are causing war, and the environments that fuel it.
Peace through strength is an oxy-moron, much like that politicians that preach it and the people who follow them.
You can’t preach peace and drop a bomb at the same time. That’s hypocritical.
August 30th, 2005 at 6:52 pm#229 Elvis – Expecting peace while waging war is like screwing for virginity.
[From a Salt Lake City anti-Bush poster at the protest earlier this month]
August 30th, 2005 at 6:56 pmMichael: “That said, I also believe what Atheist is doing is evil.”
Yikes. That hurts. But it’s not unexpected from a God fearing Christian. If you only believe I’m evil because I don’t believe in your God then your doing as you are told. Bravo, join the Republicans. That doesn’t show much thought on your part.
I believe that no one should go without food or shelter, that everyone should be able to get a GOOD education, that everyone deserves to have GOOD medical care, that no one should live in fear for thier lives. I KNOW I’m a good person and if, when I die, there turns out to be a God, I will apologize. But I will also know that I have treated most people very well (hey I’m not perfect and neither are you Michael)
Michael: “Also, simply quoting passages out of the Torah doesn’t make you a scholar. Particular passages, taken out of context, totally misrepresent the idea of the portion.”
First of all, I never once claimed to be a scholar. I have been in search of the meaning of life for some time. I grew up going to a Baptist church. I watched these people behave reprehensibly. The pastor actually switched professions to be a real estate agent. Of course he is free to do so, but the message at this church was that money counted and the big dude showed us the way! I moved and went to another Baptist church. Here I was an outsider for three years. Here the church abandoned a fellow who turned out gay (I know you don’t understand that do you Michael?)
Second of all, we are inundated with select passages from the Bible. Now you have to be a scholar to figure out the context but of course few people are especially those, like myself, that aren’t scholars. The passage I quoted is pretty straight forward. Do you not want to obey this passage? Why? Can’t you stone someone to death? The Bible is full of contridictions – not coincidently like Bush and his friends.
Michael:”I pray that you soon learn how to live in peace. If you do, there may be hope for the world…”
Please don’t pray for me as I don’t believe it has any effect. I do hope you realize that I am not evil. I love you and everyone in the world equally.
August 30th, 2005 at 7:00 pmTo those who share the opinions expressed by Ned, Red and Chris: Get Some Professional Help!
And to Groat, I respect your thoughtfulness and obvious intelligence, but I despair at your, “…let’s try not to insult each other – even the blowhards – calm reasoning (even if only one sided), is more in keeping with the principles of debate.”
PRINCIPLES OF DEBATE? These morons support a sociopathic den of thieves! Do you really think they adhere to some high-blown, idealistic moral code that includes Principles of Debate? Have you read their posts? These people are a waste of food.
Instead of debating these monkeys, let’s start referring them to a Mental Health Center near their homes for treatment, (that is, if the centers haven’t already been shut down by Bush cut-backs – the cutbacks that fund those huge tax cuts for the RICH.)
Incidentally, Red, re: post 120, “If liberals continue to run the Democratic Party, they will run it right into the ground.”
IF, in fact, the leadership of the Democratic Party WAS liberal OR directed by liberals, the SEVENTY PER CENT (70%) of the American People that did NOT vote for George Bush in the last election WOULD have voted Democrat, believe me.
They just didn’t want to vote for Bush Light. Same crazy policies without the Same crazy leadership.
So…where do you guys live…maybe I can help….?
August 30th, 2005 at 7:02 pm#174 I agree – I believe that is the mission of the opposition who use this site – they throw in personal assaults, bring up Clinton or Kerry, and otherwise muddy the water because they cannot debate the debacle of the Bush presidency with any rationale.
August 30th, 2005 at 7:02 pmBush, Cheney and the dumb conservatives still don’t know the difference between the terrorists and the Iraqis … The terrorists caused 9/11; the Iraqis did not … We should be at war with the terrorists, not with the Iraqis.
After 9/11, Al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden were in Pakistan … They and the Taliban received funding from Saudi Arabia and Pakistan … The 19 hijackers, organized by Egyptian Islamic Jihad, were Egyptian and Saudi. … Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.
Why is Bush KISSING THE ASSES of the Saudi Arabians?
The personal fortunes of all four Bush brothers, including the president and the governor, come from the royal family of Saudi Arabia who invested $1.476 billion in Bush family enterprises.
August 30th, 2005 at 7:06 pmCindy Sheehan puts it well when she wrote (today):
“… While George golfed yesterday, the worst hurricane ever struck New Orleans; oil went up to over 68.00/barrel; and an American soldier was killed in the charade and cataclysmic occupation of Iraq. The soldier’s family doesn’t even know what’s going to hit them yet. The death is “Pending Notification.” I continually ask myself: “How do George Bush and other death-mongers live with themselves?” While George vacations and bikes and golfs his way to the lowest poll numbers since Richard Nixon, other “patriots” are wrapping themselves in the Stars and Stripes and going along with the farce that the mission from hell — killing more people in Iraq, because so many have already been killed — is somehow a good thing ordained by God…”
August 30th, 2005 at 7:10 pm#197 yours is an unpopular opinion, but I, for one, agree with you. If one reads about Greek and Roman mythology and their polytheism, you will find many similarities between the tales.
August 30th, 2005 at 7:10 pmWhat if 911 was an attack by a secret government within our own government? What if the White House is really the bad guys and the rest of us are the fools? How can this country trust a man who ran every business he had his hands on into Bankruptcy? He’s doing it again. This time is different there’s none of daddy’s good rich friends to bail him out, instead the American people are supposed to do that.
August 30th, 2005 at 7:11 pmOK, bush screwed… dems are missing in action… pull out or stay to have more fall to honor the already fallen, bla,bla bla…
But what is the solution?
There is one.
Pull out and…
Put SADDAM BACK !
Yeah true, the US then looks like morons… but.. Saddam will manage the “terrists”, the oil will flow again (if he can use a portion for golden fawcets) and the people of IRAQ (I mean the real people who want some calm and electricity at any price – maybe not the shiites and kurds and sunnis) will go along with it! Hell,if you offered this deal to Saddam, he’d even accept to work woth haliburton!
Ludicrous? Really?
1)this is one way around the fait-accompli of “well,we’re already in Iraq, can’t turn back”… (dems don’t propose anything because there’s nothing to propose until you do get around the fait-accompli)
2) Also, this is a CHRISTIAN Act ot contrition “We srewed, so we fix it even if it makes us look like fools”… (it shows that we’re big enough to admit our mistakes… and to truly put things back the way we found them.)
4)Finaly,it is the only way of recapturing (some) int’l goodwill towards US by showing that we’re waking from our imperialist craze. Things are gonna get back to the kind of America the world used to like a lot…
Think about it…
So what’s the block?
the twice unelected treasonous bush piece of garbage and so called christian nazis don’t like it?
From Lyonnel, a guy who had signs in front of his house since 12/12/2000 and who finally had a cross set on fire on his front lawn (never a peep in any media) in a little town in mid amerika and who escaped usa (to south pacific) after a DA filed criminal charges because I violated privacy of guy setting cross on fire on my lawn at 3 am when I took video of the crime (”but Mr. DA, burning a cross, that’s crime?! That’s a fed crime,take it up with the feds, violating that man’s privacy, that’s a state crime… I had real shitty -yet expensive- lawyer, etc, etc…) Anyway, this isn’t about me… but just to give a bit of persperctive.
August 30th, 2005 at 7:12 pmI just looked at your link about terrorism in against the US during Bush 41’s administration. May the reason W didn’t mention it is that fact that THERE WEREN’T ANY. ya think moonbat?
August 30th, 2005 at 7:16 pmCut the BUSH league PREZ some slack.
After all he had someone think about 911 and maybe even Bin Laden for some time to come up with these talking points.. right? It’s probabaly the first time he’s considered 9/11, or Bin Laden in years.
And let us not forget the HUGE sacrifice “W” is making because of the hurricane. Prez Vacation is cutting his 35 day vacation short by 2 days! Let’s see that’s what almost 6%? What a jerk.
August 30th, 2005 at 7:17 pm#203 Your theory is intriguing. I have heard many similar theories and unanswered questions. I am not sure many are ready to jump on the bandwagon, but …
August 30th, 2005 at 7:18 pmMichael, your enthusiasm for truth,peace and ‘good over evil’ as a mainstay of Judaism must be very difficult for you. Religious dogma is no more than another ‘belief system’ that makes believers ‘right’ and others ‘wrong’. How do you fit Israel into this. To restore or initiate peace into the Middle East ,Israel,established by the U.N. must be dis-established and the colonists of Palestine expelled to their countries of origin.How would devout peace loving Jews respond to that idea? You must remember that we are always in the ‘middle’of History; never at the end. When the weight of demographics is brought to bear on the State of Israel,whether in ten or two hundred years, Israel will succumb to the forces of history. Just like all the rest of our countries. The Israeli people will have to face another Masada or Armageddon. Except the memorial to the Jews will consist of a nuclear wasteland that will stretch across parts of three continents,and your people’s identity will ‘live in infamy’.Better that you give up your irrational traditional beliefs and save what you can from the killers among you. Denis Foley.
August 30th, 2005 at 7:37 pmInteresting, isn’t it, the demonization of the word “liberal”?
I forget my high school Latin, but it seems that the root of “liberal” would be “liber”. As in “to liberate”.
Or to make free.
Why do conservatives hate freedom?
August 30th, 2005 at 7:37 pmI just looked at your link about terrorism in against the US during Bush 41’s administration. May the reason W didn’t mention it is that fact that THERE WEREN’T ANY. ya think moonbat?
Comment by Ros — August 30, 2005 @ 7:16 pm
Jeebus! These freedumbya clowns really, really are that stupid!
August 30th, 2005 at 7:37 pmWhy do conservatives hate freedom?
Comment by rachel — August 30, 2005 @ 7:37 pm
Because they are fascists, plain and simple.
August 30th, 2005 at 7:38 pmHere is a novel idea that will probably get me laughed at on this site, but why not take some of the energy being used here to sit down and write our elected representatives in Washington and suggest things you think might make things better.
August 30th, 2005 at 7:40 pmKillCon:
Excellent response!
Now, let’s deconstruct “conservative”. Forget about the Latin, let’s start with English.
From “to conserve”: to keep (money, at any cost). To save (their own necks). To stockpile (weapons, oil, Lacoste shirts).
August 30th, 2005 at 7:44 pm#232 “if, when I die, there turns out to be a God, I will apologize”… Atheist, if there is a God, I believe you will be welcomed to heaven – if there is one. See, I think organized religion is one of the roots from which most evil flourishes in the world. I think that if we are created by a God – he gave us a brain and a heart. If our brains won’t wrap around the religious God, at least our hearts can wrap around humanity. I think it is far more important and noble to be kind and helpful to our fellow man, rather than to declare that one God or another is the true God and condemn the infidels to hell. The Bible is full of contradictions, violence, and revenge – I don’t think it serves anyone well to fall back on Bible passages to defend abhorrent behavior.
August 30th, 2005 at 7:47 pmBut this is supposed to be about blaming others, as Bush is wont to do — and that reminds me of the snake in the Garden of Eden, or of Cain.
Alan Charles:
Your idea is not at all laughable. And while it is rather good, it is not novel. It has been blogs and discussions like this which enabled John Conyers to collect more than a million signatures demanding an inquiry into the Downing Street memos. My mailbox is full of responses from editors, columnists, senators, and members of Congress.
I’m sure that most of the posters on this site could say the same. This just gives us something to do while waiting for something to happen in D.C. October seems a long way off to me.
August 30th, 2005 at 7:50 pmAlan Charles:
Also, much of what I know about politics has come from reading blogs and the comments contained therein. It has been a rude awakening, to say the least. I used to read the NYT and CNN.com every day, and I thought I knew what was REALLY going on.
I was sadly mistaken.
Blogs are a Godsend, at least since the Fourth Estate abdicated its responsibility. But I do agree that there’s too much name-calling going on.
August 30th, 2005 at 7:55 pmThe AWOL pResident. Really, what do you expect from someone whose life history makes him singularly unsuitable to be POTUS? You’d think the powers that be who steal elections would consider the ramifications of selecting a complete incompetent for the job. Sad thing is, what competent person is going to want to run for POTUS following 8 years of this hyper mismanagement?
How’s that WOT doing, Dimson? Now that you’ve spent $300BB on hunting boogeymen in Iraq, guess there’s not much left in the national gas tank to deal with real terror that a national disaster like Katrina represents. Kinda makes the whole foundation of your pResidency meaningless, no?
The chickens are coming home to roost…
August 30th, 2005 at 8:05 pmKillcon ridicules Ros for pointing out that terrorists attacks on the United States during Bush I are not listed in Judd’s link. Killcon should tell us which terrorist attack on the U.S. Bush should have included in his address.
August 30th, 2005 at 8:11 pmRepublican congress investigated a baseball player’s LIE about use of Steroids but wont investigate the Bush PACK OF LIES that is causing the DEATHS of innocent people including our soldiers.
Accept reality … Bush made a very serious miscalculation and mistake in his decision to invade Iraq … We will all pay for it one way or another … our soldiers are paying with their lives … Too late to back out … $1 trillion of taxpayers money will be spent in rebuilding what we destroyed in Iraq.
Our grand children and great grand children will be paying for the OUT OF CONTROL spending of this corrupt and crooked republican administration.
August 30th, 2005 at 8:12 pmAnn,
August 30th, 2005 at 8:20 pmPack of lies??? Like this?
“One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line.”
President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998
Ann,
August 30th, 2005 at 8:20 pmHow ’bout this?
“If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction program.”
President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998
232
No, I don’t think that those individuals adhere to these principles. But we, at least, should. Our example may not be followed, but I know I’ll be able to look myself in the mirror afterwards.
August 30th, 2005 at 8:22 pmWas this lying?
August 30th, 2005 at 8:22 pm“Iraq is a long way from USA but, what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face.”
Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998
Or this?
August 30th, 2005 at 8:23 pmWe urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S.Constitution and Laws, to take necessary actions, (including, if appropriate,
air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq’s refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction
programs.”
Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998
Clinton responded appropriately to terrorism. His admin. found and prosecuted the perpetrators. They reached out to the international community for aid in tracking down terrorists and sniffing out plots. They worked to quell international conflicts which might engender bad feelings toward the U.S.
BushCo ignored the threats despite repeated strong warnings by Clinton, Gore, Clarke, et al. BushCo shat on the international community (and continues to shit on them) by bullying the U.N. to their own ends. They manipulated intelligence not to find the perpetrators, but to point the finger at Sadaam, a very low priority bad guy at that particular juncture.
This quote from Bush is simply reiterating the Neo-Con philosophy of American Imperialism. It is clearly enumerated in the PNAC’s “Rebuilding America’s Defenses.” Neo-Cons believe America must militarily dominate the world in order to continue to economically and culturally dominate the world. They spell it out clear as day.
That philosophy makes us an even bigger bully than we already were. How do you deal with a bully? Ignore them? Not unless you want to keep getting bullied. Head to head? Not if you are weaker than they are, you’ll just get your ass kicked. Get together with all your friends and stand up to them? Not if you don’t have many friends, or if his friends are bigger than yours. Ambush and fight dirty? Bingo. It is the only way you stand a chance.
So that’s how they fight us. Terrorist attacks. Ambushes. Guerilla warfare. Until we can’t fight back anymore.
So what is the answer? We need to stop being a bully. We need to share more of our wealth with the world. We need to stop supporting despots. We need to respect the international community. We need to have honest and open dialogues with those who disagree with us. We need to lead the world to a more peaceful future by being a role-model. Good leaders don’t bully people to follow them… people follow because they want to. “My gun is bigger than your gun” is not an argument that wins hearts and minds. Until we do that, we will keep being a target of terrorists.
Unfortunately, Bush has made it clear that he intends to continue a foreign policy of being a bully. And it is just going to make things worse. Eventually, even our allies will stop associating with us (not just in Iraq, but everywhere). We will be economically and politically isolated. And then the terrorists will have won.
August 30th, 2005 at 8:25 pm258
The key phrase there, I think, is “if appropriate.” We perhaps differ on whether Bush’s invasion of a sovereign nation unrelated to 9/11 qualifies as “appropriate.”
August 30th, 2005 at 8:25 pmWhatever,
August 30th, 2005 at 8:26 pmWho can name a terrorist attack on the United States that occurred during Bush I that GWB should have included in his address?
Creamy Goodness
The Desert Fox operation was launched by Clinton and Blair in December 1998 to punish Iraq for forcing out the weapons inspectors, thereafter, Iraqi air defenses were attacked whenever the allies came under attack.
Between 1999 and 2001, the U.S. and British-led air forces in Iraq dropped 1.3 million pounds of bombs in response to purported violations of the no-fly zones and anti-aircraft fire from Saddam Hussein.
A sweeping attack, conducted in January of 1999, rained down 25 missiles on Iraqi soil. Clinton said the attack was in response to four planes violating the no-fly zones.
In the first three months of 1999, U.S. led-forces bombarded Iraq with 241,000 pounds of bombs.
Clinton and Blair authorized air strikes on more than 100 days in 1999, sometimes several times per day. The bombings were in response to Hussein’s refusal to allow UN weapons inspectors into the country.
By August of 1999, American and British pilots had fired more than 1,100 missiles against 359 targets — that year alone.
Clinton’s bombings were part of a “war of attrition,†an attempt to degrade Hussein’s hold on power without resorting to full-scale war.
Clinton disarmed Saddam Hussein. The Kay report makes that clear. By the time Bush took office, Saddam had nothing that could pose a threat to the US. Bush attacked a country de-fanged by Clinton.
Even with WMDs, Iraq’s weaponries are very much more INFERIOR compared to the weaponries of USA. So where is the THREAT from Saddam?
What harm did the Iraqis do to Americans to merit the bombings and invasion of Iraq? Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.
August 30th, 2005 at 8:37 pmCreamy Goddess, your feeble attempts to blame Clinton and put him on the same level a Bush are ridiculous — Bush is the one who went to war based on fabricted intel and lies to the public. Regardless of what anyone else THOUGHT he is the one who invaded and began this debacle. Recall, Bush is the one who told the UN inspectors to get out because the bombers were coming to Iraq. He would not wait for any more inspections — they might have exposed his folly — this is Bush’s war, Bush’s evil and we are all, including you, going to pay for it.
August 30th, 2005 at 8:48 pm#262 The first WTC bombing occurred weeks after Clinton was inaugurated — I don’t recall he blamed Bush the first for it – unlike the incompetent fool who is president now.
August 30th, 2005 at 8:52 pm“They concluded that free societies lacked the courage and character to defend themselves against a determined enemy…”
Hey, that rings a bell! Let me think…Oh, yea, I remember!
“BIN LADEN DETERMINED TO STRIKE WITHIN U.S.” Aug. 2001
August 30th, 2005 at 8:52 pmAnd what did the Imbecile Cowboy do when he heard that? He continued his vacation in Crawford — didn’t do a damn thing. Apparently the moron called Shrub “lacked the courage and character to defend himself against a determined enemy” the month BEFORE 9/11.
257./258. Did Clinton invade Iraq based on those concerns? Ahhhh, no. He managed to keep Saddam in check using the embargo and no fly zones. Of course, Clinton wasn’t beholden to the House of Saud and he wasn’t a PNAC signatory either. He was smart enough to use diplomacy to futrher our national interests and realized, like Bush1, that ousting Saddam would be all downside and no upside for our interests. He wasn’t looking to establish a legacy as a “war pResident” either. Damn shame we let the powers-that-be install incompetents to play POTUS.
August 30th, 2005 at 8:56 pmAnd the trip to hell for monkeyboy-dumbazz begins.
I have been saying be careful around cornered animals, I said when monkey boy begins to self-destruct he will start throwing his feces!
With his sanity in question and the noose tightening it is beginning to happen.
AND I SAY TO MYSELF….WHAT A WONDERFUL WORLD.
August 30th, 2005 at 9:09 pmNot to be pedantic, but I’m an English teacher – “you’re” = you are
August 30th, 2005 at 9:26 pmI can’t help it. It’s a sickness, I know.
August 30th, 2005 at 9:40 pm273
In my defense, though, it will ultimately help the “your pathetic” guy. People tend to take others less seriously when the latter consistently misspell five-letter words.
August 30th, 2005 at 9:41 pmIt doesn’t further the debate, for sure – but it may help the debaters be taken more seriously. Of course, it was only meant as a throwaway post – I had no intention of making a federal case out of it.
August 30th, 2005 at 9:45 pm281
“must be the nit-picky teacher in you.”
You’re right, it probably is. Sorry to be a pest.
August 30th, 2005 at 9:49 pmSorry, I have to agree with groat — it’s difficult to take someone’s diatribe about foreign policy seriously when they can’t even write at a fifth-grade level.
Typos are one thing, but consistently bad grammar and spelling lead one to wonder what other glaring gaps in education exist in the writer’s, ummm, repertoire.
August 30th, 2005 at 9:52 pm“Judd – you simply DO NOT understand the war on terror. You never will. 9/11 was the ultimate crime against America. The hatred that was so common in the Middle East had to be dealt with, whether it be Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Syria – it didn’t matter. We had to go over there and do SOMETHING. If not Iraq, than Iran.”
But you don’t understand or want to understand the TRUTH about 9-11 It Was The “NEW PEARL HARBOR” and now America deserves to know their government and military have bold face lied to them, for their own agenda!
See these link for corroboration
http://www.911busters.com/
http://www.911blogger.com/
Tell everyone you know, don’t let them get away with Murderous Treason!
August 30th, 2005 at 9:53 pmThere were no skyscrapers knocked down by terrorists before Chimpy was in office. So, I always laugh at those that say we haven’t been hit by terrorists since 911.
How much is enough, anyway?
Besides, 911 belongs to George W Bush forever. Exclusively.
August 30th, 2005 at 10:00 pmLet’s stop. I meant to add a little levity and maybe make a small point about the correlation between misspellings and the respect afforded the views being presented in that way, and it seems to have become more than that. It’s my fault, and I apologize.
August 30th, 2005 at 10:01 pmEveryone – Let’s stop the gotcha game between Clinton and Bush. There are a lot of quotes everyone can dig up and take out of context to prove just about anything.
Ignore those Clinton-haters who just cannot accept that 8 years of peace and prosperity really happened while a Democrat was President. We’ll just have to clean up another Bush mess starting in 2009.
The truth is Bush CHOSE to invade Iraq. It was a war of HIS choice and the blood of 1,878 Americans, hundreds of allies and tens of thousands of Iraqis are on HIS hands. HE told the inspectors to get out before they could prove his lies. HIS criminally inept prosecution of HIS war will forever stain the Bush name.
Our only hope to stop this travesty is to keep laying the blame where it belongs – With GEORGE W BUSH and the rest of his corrupt REPUBLICAN Administration!
August 30th, 2005 at 10:09 pmRE: mispelling. I’ve often wondered if the ‘ new Pearl Harbour’ quote should be spelled ” Perle Harbour”.D.F.
August 30th, 2005 at 10:12 pmI’m still waiting to hear about the mistake I made. But I hear you, groat.
August 30th, 2005 at 10:13 pmMaria wrote: “I believe you will be welcomed to heaven – if there is one.”
Thanks I appreciate that.
August 30th, 2005 at 10:30 pmTalk about spelling error. Ooyy. I spelt Athiest wrong…and I are one!
August 30th, 2005 at 10:35 pmMan, I don’t know what is worse, the right wingers ragging or the English language Nazis going off. Criticize someone on the merit of their arguments, not on their grammar, please! Otherwise you will not be taken seriously by the majority of Americans. Unfortunately, Brunhilda, that is just the way it is with us ignorant Americans!
August 30th, 2005 at 10:46 pmHey Clinton wake up and kick his ass, stop kissin
August 30th, 2005 at 10:55 pmit and tell it like it is.
I ain’t dead!
August 30th, 2005 at 11:15 pmDick:
This is by no means true of every post with grammatical/spelling/typographical errors, but honestly, there are posts here that I (not speaking for anyone else) am completely unable to respond to, simply because I can’t figure out what their point is.
For instance, I’ve been continually amazed by the misspelling of “atheist” by “athiest”, yet he/she usually has something worthwhile to say. So no one here — myself included — has commented on his/her fairly obvious mistake.
I might also add that (apart from “athiest” — who seems to have figured out on his/her own that he/she had been misspelling his/her own handle, and is appropriately chagrined) that I, and groat, have singled out no one person. Just the practice of bad grammar and/or spelling, and the irony of such mistakes when debating complex issues.
August 30th, 2005 at 11:16 pmWow – I saw very few similarities between my little joke and the Third Reich. It’s a good thing we don’t overreact in here.
But I still do think there is a connection between an argument’s persuasiveness and its presentation. Feel free to disagree, but I see no reason to become disagreeable in the process.
August 30th, 2005 at 11:17 pmAthiest:
BTW — in case I was unclear — despite spelling errors, your posts are well-thought out and interesting. Can’t say I agree with all of them, but at least I understand your point.
Bedtime!
August 30th, 2005 at 11:19 pmIn 1998,if Congress spent as must time investigating Monica and Bill, as Terrorism, 911 would NOT have happened!!!
August 30th, 2005 at 11:29 pmThe one thing that pissed me off the most, was Congress should have been investigating Terrorism in 1998 instead of what Clinton was doing with his body parts with Monica.
Republican leaders at the time were critizing Clinton for sending Cruise missles at Osma, thinking it would distract from the Monica investigation.
Grrrrr…………
groat:
You sound like a very nice person. As well as a good gramatician.
Cheers!
Now I really am going to bed.
August 30th, 2005 at 11:32 pmpeople tend to make mistakes when typing utter drivel into blogs? but not the same level of “mistakes” when “world leaders” “manufacture advise and consent” to “pander to armegeddon-fixated freaks” and “invade sovereign nations” with “false pretenses” if you “get my drift” but i’m sure we’re “all nice people” as long as we don’t “look too closely at each other’s motives” because we might “vomit uncontrollably” when we realize we’re reading Andrew Sullivan again….
August 30th, 2005 at 11:38 pm[...] They looked at our response after the hostage crisis in Iran, the bombings of the Marine barracks in Lebanon, the first World Trade Center attack, the killing of American soldiers in Somalia, the destruction of two U.S. embassies in Africa, and the attack on the USS Cole. They concluded that free societies lacked the courage and character to defend themselves against a determined enemy… After September the 11th, 2001, we’ve taught the terrorists a very different lesson: America will not run in defeat and we will not forget our responsibilities. [...]
August 30th, 2005 at 11:46 pmLanguage is universal. Suffering is universal. Who cares about grammer? The english language is a hodgepodge of too many languages to go into here so fu*k it – get over it – and move on.
August 31st, 2005 at 12:17 amNOW! Bush needs to get over his name (and the rep his he thinks his dad gave him) and stop playing the war monger. It just doesn’t fit. Obviously, Dubya is not too bright, so let’s all do something about it and COMPLAIN any way you CAN!! Does it take a mom with a dead son to get the world’s attention that sh*t ain’t right?
Bush’s speech shows once again he does not understand who his enemy is and what his enemy thinks. Radical Islamic terrorists are the enemy who engineered 9/11. (Saddam did not. North Korea did not. I’m not so sure about Iran, but I do believe many in Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan helped Al Quaeda.) The radical Islamic terrorists want us out of the Middle East. They have said so on more than one occasion. They are responsible for the attack in Lebanon and on the Cole. Our bluster/or lack thereof and resolve/or lack thereof are irrelevant to their actions. They want us out of the Middle East. The president likes to say “they hate our freedom”. Not on point. They want us out of the Middle East. They think of us as invaders….kind of like we would regard armed foreigners who did not speak our language or respect our culture but were in our country to fight our neighbor and secure their wealth (oil). They want us out of the Middle East.
August 31st, 2005 at 12:35 amThe sad thing about it is that many Americans too want us out of the Middle East.
Thanks for the kind words, Rachel – we could all use more of them, certainly.
August 31st, 2005 at 12:42 amLet’s look closely at what the President said:
“They looked at our response after … Somalia. [W]e’ve taught the terrorists a very different lesson: America will not run in defeat and we will not forget our responsibilities.”
Nice words. Notice how W has converted Somalia from the largest patch of ungoverned ground on earth to the lush dream resort we now clamor to visit on Holiday?
Poverty rate went up 0.2% again in 2004, 1.1 million newly below the poverty line. W says it is a “modest” increase. If 1.1 million Americans had voted (or been counted as voting) the other way, he would not be in office. Modesty clearly escapes W.
August 31st, 2005 at 1:27 am>we will not forget our responsibilities
You mean like all those Louisiana National Guard being half a world away instead of back statestide where they are needed.
And, oh yeah, it’s Carter’s, Reagan’s, and Clinton’s fault that when the CIA told Bush “Bin Laden Determined to Attack in the US” he couldn’t figure out that maybe, just maybe he’d cut that vacation short, too.
August 31st, 2005 at 1:30 amhttp://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20050301231231793
The Ptech scandal. No one ever mentions this.
August 31st, 2005 at 1:32 amWhy is it the truth hurts liberals so much to hear? Thats all he stated, the damn truth
August 31st, 2005 at 1:37 ambeen a long time since i was here last, so this will be a long reply to several posts.
#54\rachel: go to smirkingchimp.com and meet jamespb. i remember his first post there as a recently recovered republican. he opened his mind and saw the light and he was a lifelong republican from a republican family. it can happen.
#73\bluestatered: still in full denial. maybe you should wean yourself slowly from the denial of the dark side. bush didn’t draw any reference to anything done or not done by previous administrations. he was always a belligerent chickenhawk, more than happy to talk big and let someone else do the real fighting and dying. the best part: he knows he is a total failure and coward which is why he keeps saying the same things over and over. i guess he thinks that sooner or later he’ll be get at least one of them right.
#83\mrbluesky: check out ‘conspiracyplanet.com’, tvnewslies.net, fromthewilderness.com and the crisispapers.org. each will have links to the connection between the white house and 9\11. just remember that on that day cheney was in charge of the entire air force and air traffic control system, running an exercise which included multi-plane hijackings which were then used to destroy american landmarks (who wudda thunk it?)
#120\red: when will you radicals on the right start loving america and americans and the constitution? anyone who starts off by impugning another american’s patriotism has identified themselves as seriously unpatriotic and uninformed about what america really is and means. btw: bush lost florida anyway you want to count it. he lost 2004 as well, as 30,000 documented voting anomalies nationwide showed impossible odds of bush winning. he and his administration besides being traitors are now war criminals and mass murderers as well. how can you and any other person with more than 2 functioning brain cells support traitors and war criminals? how can you hate america and americans so much?
#137\red: you (the radical republican regressives) have NOT gotten over nixon. i believe it was clinton persecutor henry hyde that said that clinton was payback for nixon. that was said on the record by the way. they never like to be caught and held accountable and punished for their crimes that harm the country and the people. you are the one who has to ‘wake up and smell the coffee’. ever hear of ‘operation northwoods’? look it up and then see if you can continue to think this administration full of cowards and chickenhawks and totally amoral and a-ethical people wouldn’t brush it off, update it and then implement it to have their war. if you still believe bushco, then you are lost totally to the darkside and are wasting your time and ours by being here. you’ve made up your mind and there’s no way facts are going to change it.
#spelling & grammar: if you speak and read clearly and correctly, you will be understood and you will say exactly what you mean. some typos will happen, but the solution is to correct them, not debate them like a certain half of the political spectrum does. i’ve read some posts (not here actually) that were unintelligible and while i thought i’d like to respond, i didn’t understand the poor grammar and spelling well enough to reply.
August 31st, 2005 at 1:44 amLet me see here, we jump on those who post that use incorrect grammar and spelling, yet ….
our bozo pRESIDENT can’t speak or write or read and he is a great pRESIDENT.
SO, USING THAT: We are no longer the left, we are the RIGHT, or as I see it….THE CORRECT.
Come one people, do some web surfing…. this monkey boy’s grandfater dealt DIRECTLY with the Nazi’s and supported, financed, and managed factories using slave laobr.
It doesn’t take a very smart person to come to the conclusion that this family is evil, and evil surrounds itself with the same.
Monkey boy is making a literal killing from this illegal war. and so is helliburton.
August 31st, 2005 at 2:17 am#221- I support you totally. You are so correct.
I say if we want to right the wrong,
CHIMPEACH. IMPRISION THE WHOLE BUNCH AND START FROM SCRATCH. never ever vote for anyone who has held public office for more that 1 yr. (and screw your comments about how long terms are as this is meant to tell you if you see quality, and integrity, reward it with a promotion, not like chimpy rewards political favors)
August 31st, 2005 at 2:21 am#271, I have had some really vocal posts, and I have found all of them INTACT. I suspect if you are being edited, you are a fruitcake.
August 31st, 2005 at 2:23 amBorn Free is just another conspiracy theorist who can’t get a grip on reality. Bush won both in 2000 and 2004 and no amount of mumbo jumbo from this kook will ever change that fact. The only war criminals are the trairots on the left who aid and abet our enemy by trashing our military at every turn. Where were you when Clinton was bombing Bosnia? Where were you when Clinton was selling nuclear secrets to China? Where were you when Clinton was turning down Sudan’s offer to hand over OBL? (Clinton’s reasoning is on tape.) Where were you when Clinton was doing absolutely nothing to combat terrorism? Where were you when Clinton destroyed a aspirin factory and killed innocent people? Where were you when you found out that Clinton openly stated that he LOATHED the military? Born free was only born free because of the men and women who have fought and died so that he could have that luxury. Is he grateful? No! Just another blame America first kook who can’t seem to get away from the liberal kool-aid. The right are the ones that want to preserve the Constitution, it’s you leftists who think it’s a living document. Leftists kooks like born free are truly the enemy within for they seek nothing but propaganda and conspiracies to justify their absolute hatred of anything and anyone willing to stand up and defend this country. If any liberal were president on 9-11 they would have done nothing except rollover and surrender. Born Free, you have zero facts and with your zero facts you are nothing but a kook conspiracist who needs to wake up and smell the coffee before you find yourself all alone and bitter. Oh yea, you already are bitter. It’s ashame that someone like you has their head so far in the clouds that can’t see the truth and that you believe every left wing, American hating rag that comes your way. Just remember Freedom ISN”T Free. Peace through strength.
August 31st, 2005 at 2:29 amBush didn’t have to blame anyone, we all know Clinton is to blame for all the world problems we face today. No paper tiger, thanks for nothing billy.
August 31st, 2005 at 2:34 am#309 – my words exactly.
August 31st, 2005 at 2:34 amchris, get a clue
August 31st, 2005 at 2:35 amKJ Lovell just proves once again that liberalism IS a mental disorder.
August 31st, 2005 at 2:37 amchris, you are so full of shi….. well you obviously haven’t been paying attention.
did you know that dumbya’s family supported, financed and managed factories in Germany using slave labor?
I bet you don’t believe that one either.
August 31st, 2005 at 2:38 amKJ Lovell, did you know that Al Gore’s father voted against the Civil Rights Act of 1964?
August 31st, 2005 at 2:39 am#310 listen brains, you better include JFK’s grandfather into the mix, he to was right in the middle of it all. Do you think you could try telling the truth. NOOOOO you little liberal girly man.
August 31st, 2005 at 2:40 amchris, do some research, what is the Carlyle group???
tell me do, and who owns it????
who is the patsy now?
August 31st, 2005 at 2:40 amYou are the patsy. Someone living in the past will never get ahead.
August 31st, 2005 at 2:41 amBesides, rumrunners aren’t NAZI’S
August 31st, 2005 at 2:41 amOk, you brought up civil rights, how do you feel about gay marriage….I thought so.
August 31st, 2005 at 2:42 amHomosexuality is an abomination and unnatural.
August 31st, 2005 at 2:43 amSince you brought up JFK, who killed him???
hummm….. guess you have some bush smoke and mirrors for that one too..
I know the truth! YOU DON’T
August 31st, 2005 at 2:43 amBut if someone wants to be gay that is their choice. Just don’t push it on me.
August 31st, 2005 at 2:44 amKJ, who killed Mary Jo Kapechne?
August 31st, 2005 at 2:45 amChris is a bigot, dumbya supporting idiot that thinks blacks should STILL BE SLAVES!!!!
NOT SUCH A HEADLINE, as we know your type.
August 31st, 2005 at 2:45 amcarlyle group???
no snappy comebacks eh?
August 31st, 2005 at 2:47 amKJ would never stand up and fight to protect this country because he is a coward.
August 31st, 2005 at 2:47 amcome on balls-o-ass, tell me carlyle group???? got a clue?
August 31st, 2005 at 2:48 amWhat party has a member of the KKK in the current senate? That’s right, the democrats.
August 31st, 2005 at 2:49 amWhat party filibustered the Civil Rights Act of 1964? Once again, the democrat party.
August 31st, 2005 at 2:50 amHOW THE HELL would you NOT KNOW THAT I AM A MARINE?
August 31st, 2005 at 2:50 amWhat party had the Presidency during every major war of the 20th century except the first Gulf War? Once again the democrat party.
August 31st, 2005 at 2:51 amcould it be my spelling ABILITY? We are not ALL DUMB, POOR AND READY TO DIE FOR A LIE.
August 31st, 2005 at 2:52 amName one lie.
August 31st, 2005 at 2:52 amdumb again, BUSH THE SMARTER….
Still no comment on Carlyle group?
Do a google search… you may change your closed mind.
August 31st, 2005 at 2:53 amI DOUBT YOU CAN CHANGE YOUR MIND. HELL YOU CAN’T EVEN CHANGE YOUR OWN DIAPER.
August 31st, 2005 at 2:55 amI know all about the Carlyle Group, but that was his Grandfather, not him. That’s like some idiot saying that Al Gore is a racist because his father was.
August 31st, 2005 at 2:55 amgone? no carlyle comment? go FIGURE.
August 31st, 2005 at 2:55 amAre all democrats racist because they filibustered the Civil Rights Act of 1964?
August 31st, 2005 at 2:57 amYou still haven’t named one lie.
August 31st, 2005 at 2:57 amKJ, both of your dads want you to go to bed because they are ready to play.
August 31st, 2005 at 2:58 amDUMB ASS, WHO IS ON THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS?????
Bin Laden family and Bush family including DUMBYA.
August 31st, 2005 at 2:59 amWELL, YOU STILL HAVEN’T MADE A VALID POINT. COME ON, CARLYLE GROUP NAME THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS…
August 31st, 2005 at 3:00 amKJ, you are so full of sh*t. You wouldn’t know the truth if it jumped up and bit you on the ass. Getting your info from liberal rags is like getting hunting tips from PETA.
August 31st, 2005 at 3:01 amCOME ON NAME ONE LIE!
August 31st, 2005 at 3:01 amCarlyle group???? Board of directors???? you know so much do tell……
Burning crosses???? how do you feel about them????
You still haven’t said…. do tell.
August 31st, 2005 at 3:03 amFOR YOUR UNEDUCATED ass… the Carlyle group is a PRESENT DAY COMPANY…. IDIOT.
August 31st, 2005 at 3:04 amHere are the BOD’s of the Carlyle Group:
Phillip W. Farmer, former Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Harris Corporation (NYSE: HRS); Matthew P. Crugnale, President of Crugnale Associates; Ben Yu, Venture Partner at Sierra Ventures; and Gustav H. Koven, Managing Director of Knickerbocker LLC
August 31st, 2005 at 3:05 ami can’t fix stupid. chris you’re on your own.
August 31st, 2005 at 3:05 amOn the burning crosses issue, you would have to ask the democrat senator fron West Virginia, Mr Robert KKK Byrd.
August 31st, 2005 at 3:06 amKJ can’t handle the fact that he is WRONG.
August 31st, 2005 at 3:07 amThose board members are straight off their web site, not some left wing conspiracy rag.
August 31st, 2005 at 3:08 amok chris, where’s prescott’s name????
DUMB ASS
August 31st, 2005 at 3:09 amCARLYLE GROUP, THAT WAS HIS GRAND FATHER…. dumb ass.
August 31st, 2005 at 3:10 amcome one brain… tell me something I don’t know.
August 31st, 2005 at 3:13 amWell how do you feel about burning crosses?
August 31st, 2005 at 3:14 amcome on chrissy… tell me once again Carlyle group is a 1940’s company…..ha!
August 31st, 2005 at 3:15 amKJ, are you too stupid to read? If you want to know about cross burning you need to ask the democrat senator from West Virginia, Robert KKK Byrd. Now name one lie.
August 31st, 2005 at 3:17 amThe Saudi Arabian relatives of Osama bin Laden (not Osama bin Laden himself) were also minor investors in Carlyle until October 2001 when the family sold its $2.02 million investment back to the firm in light of the public controversy surrounding the bin Laden family after September 11.
August 31st, 2005 at 3:19 amDumb ass. A marine can eat your lunch every time!
August 31st, 2005 at 3:20 amYou can’t handle the truth can you?
August 31st, 2005 at 3:21 am“I am a former kleagle of the Ku Klux Klan in Raleigh County and the adjoining counties of the state …. The Klan is needed today as never before and I am anxious to see its rebirth here in West Virginia …. It is necessary that the order be promoted immediately and in every state of the Union. Will you please inform me as to the possibilities of rebuilding the Klan in the Realm of W. Va …. I hope that you will find it convenient to answer my letter in regards to future possibilities.” — Robert Byrd in letter to Klan Imperial Wizard Samuel Green of Atlanta, April 8, 1946.
August 31st, 2005 at 3:21 amYou can’t eat your own lunch much less mine.
August 31st, 2005 at 3:22 amAnd shrub sold his shares in harken even though he said he was too stupid to know what was happening before the company went bankrupt.
HE STILL HAD AN INTEREST…. dumbass… dumbya
August 31st, 2005 at 3:22 amIn another letter Byrd wrote that he would never serve in the military “with a Negro by my side. Rather I should die a thousand times, and see Old Glory trampled in the dirt never to rise again, than to see this beloved land of ours become degraded by race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen from the wilds.”
August 31st, 2005 at 3:23 amyou dumbass, DO YOU STILL THINK PRESCOTT WAS THE ORIGINAL OWNER OF THE CARLYLE GROUP… obviously you have done a little searching,,,, your posts are a little behind…..
AGAIN, HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT BURNING CROSSES?????
bet you are a puss that won’t answer.
August 31st, 2005 at 3:24 amA cross burner like Robert KKK Byrd is a disgrace to America.
August 31st, 2005 at 3:25 amyou are an idiot, moron, dumb ass, bigot….. and of all of these i find bigot the LARGEST CRIME.
August 31st, 2005 at 3:27 amKj, can you read?
August 31st, 2005 at 3:28 amI DON’T HAVE TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS IDIOT. I HAVE A BRAIN AND I USE IT. you on the other hand don’t. You have been baited by my questions, and you have answered adequately and therefore ALL KNOW YOUR IGNORANCE. IT is WHAT I DO, MUCH LIKE ROVE.
Thank you and good night.
August 31st, 2005 at 3:29 amBorn Free is just another conspiracy theorist who can’t get a grip on reality. Bush won both in 2000 and 2004 and no amount of mumbo jumbo from this kook will ever change that fact. The only war criminals are the trairots on the left who aid and abet our enemy by trashing our military at every turn. Where were you when Clinton was bombing Bosnia? Where were you when Clinton was selling nuclear secrets to China? Where were you when Clinton was turning down Sudan’s offer to hand over OBL? (Clinton’s reasoning is on tape.) Where were you when Clinton was doing absolutely nothing to combat terrorism? Where were you when Clinton destroyed a aspirin factory and killed innocent people? Where were you when you found out that Clinton openly stated that he LOATHED the military? Born free was only born free because of the men and women who have fought and died so that he could have that luxury.
Born Free! As Free as the Trairots! As Free as the hair pots! Under my arms! Armchairs and snuggle my care bears! As I wiggle my sprong!
Here is the FULL KISSINGER QUOTE verbatim from the bottom two lines of page 194 to line 14 of page 195:
====================
[paragraph]
In Haig’s presence, Kissinger referred pointedly to military men as “dumb, stupid animals to be used” as pawns for foreign policy. Kissinger often took up a post outside the doorway to Haig’s office and dressed him down in front of the secretaries for alleged acts of incompetence with which Haig was not even remotely involved. Once when the Air Force was authorized to resume bombing of North Vietnam, the planes did not fly on certain days because of bad weather. Kissinger assailed Haig. He complained bitterly that the generals had been screamin for the limits to be taken off but that now their pilots were afraid to go up in a little fog. The country needed generals who could win battles, Kissinger said, not good briefers like Haig.
[paragraph]
On another occasion, when Haig was leaving for a trip to Cambodia to meet with Premier Lon Nol, Kissinger escorted him to a staff car, where reporters and a retinue of aides waited. As Haig bent to get into the automobile, Kissinger stopped him and began polishing the single star on his shoulder. “Al, if you’re a good boy, I’ll get you another one,” he said.
====================
SOURCE:
Bob Woodward & Carl Bernstein
August 31st, 2005 at 3:29 amThe Final Days
second Touchstone paperback edition (1994)
Chapter 14, pp. 194-195
Just listen to Clinton himself– At a February 2002 business luncheon in New York, Clinton said this:
“Mr. Bin Laden used to live in Sudan … And we’d been hearing that the Sudanese wanted America to start meeting with them again. They released him. At the time, ‘96, he had committed no crime against America so I did not bring him here because we had no basis on which to hold him, though we knew he wanted to commit crimes against America.”
August 31st, 2005 at 3:30 amJUST TELL HE HOW TO REACH YOU…
August 31st, 2005 at 3:37 amWhere were you when Clinton was bombing Bosnia?
I was in Bosnia. Where were you? Drunk and stupid? Let me refresh your memory.
“You can support the troops but not the president.”
—Rep Tom Delay (R-TX)
“Well, I just think it’s a bad idea. What’s going to happen is they’re going to be over there for 10, 15, maybe 20 years.”
—Joe Scarborough (R-FL)
“Explain to the mothers and fathers of American servicemen that may come home in body bags why their son or daughter have to give up their life?”
—Sean Hannity, Fox News, 4/6/99
“[The] President . . . is once again releasing American military might on a foreign country with an ill-defined objective and no exit strategy. He has yet to tell the Congress how much this operation will cost. And he has not informed our nation’s armed forces about how long they will be away from home. These strikes do not make for a sound foreign policy.”
—Sen. Rick Santorum (R-PA)
“American foreign policy is now one huge big mystery. Simply put, the administration is trying to lead the world with a feel-good foreign policy.”
—Rep Tom Delay (R-TX)
“If we are going to commit American troops, we must be certain they have a clear mission, an achievable goal and an exit strategy.”
—Karen Hughes, speaking on behalf of George W Bush
“I had doubts about the bombing campaign from the beginning . . I didn’t think we had done enough in the diplomatic area.”
—Senator Trent Lott (R-MS)
“I cannot support a failed foreign policy. History teaches us that it is often easier to make war than peace. This administration is just learning that lesson right now. The President began this mission with very vague objectives and lots of unanswered questions. A month later, these questions are still unanswered. There are no clarified rules of engagement. There is no timetable. There is no legitimate definition of victory. There is no contingency plan for mission creep. There is no clear funding program. There is no agenda to bolster our over-extended military. There is no explanation defining what vital national interests are at stake. There was no strategic plan for war when the President started this thing, and there still is no plan today”
—Rep Tom Delay (R-TX)
“Victory means exit strategy, and it’s important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is.”
—Governor George W. Bush (R-TX)
The trouble with people like Chris is that if Bush was caught with his pants down around his ankles tomorrow getting head from some hooker while he had a cigar up her kootch, Chris would not only light the cigar for Dumpya, he would swap spit with the hooker and swallow.
August 31st, 2005 at 3:37 amas part of my duties, i travel… i will be MORE THAN HAPPY TO SHOW YOU MY VIEWS.
August 31st, 2005 at 3:38 amFree, you were never in the military.
August 31st, 2005 at 3:39 amI will prove I’m a Marine, as you will have my imprint firmly in your thick head.
August 31st, 2005 at 3:39 amTell me chrissy, what bar do you bartend? or are you a swivel headed slut? cocktail wench?
August 31st, 2005 at 3:41 amchrissy, just tell me where you live, I’LL BE THERE. come on puss….. you call me puss wanna see who’s the puss?
August 31st, 2005 at 3:42 amKJ, you only wish you could be me. I served my country and still do. You on the other hand only serve your 2 dads.
August 31st, 2005 at 3:42 amI bet you are TOO MUCH A PUSS TO TELL ME YOUR ADDRESS, MUCH LESS YOUR ACTUAL FACTUAL CITY AND STATE.
August 31st, 2005 at 3:43 amWhat company were you with? bet you can’t answer accurately.
August 31st, 2005 at 3:44 amIf you answer accurately, I’ll find you.
August 31st, 2005 at 3:45 amno comment, i thought so.
August 31st, 2005 at 3:46 amI was with B Co. 14th Combat Engineers and 193rd Combat Support Bn. What was your MOS?
August 31st, 2005 at 3:46 amchrissy, where do you live? I travel.
August 31st, 2005 at 3:47 amI’ll be in touch dumbass
August 31st, 2005 at 3:48 amPoor KJ going to run and cry to his 2 dads.
August 31st, 2005 at 3:49 amYou still haven’t said where YOU personally stand on cross burning…. tell us dear.
August 31st, 2005 at 3:49 amTell me? come on. What exactly is your noble cause?
August 31st, 2005 at 3:50 amGive him a chance, KJ, he’s got someting in his mouth and he’s got to gulp it down.
August 31st, 2005 at 3:51 amI checked, you weren’t in B Co. 14th Combat Engineers and 193rd Combat Support Bn
dumb ass
August 31st, 2005 at 3:51 amwhat now, deny?
August 31st, 2005 at 3:52 amI checked, you weren’t in B Co. 14th Combat Engineers and 193rd Combat Support Bn
dumb ass
August 31st, 2005 at 3:55 amI checked, you weren’t in B Co. 14th Combat Engineers and 193rd Combat Support Bn
dumb ass again
August 31st, 2005 at 3:56 amFAKE
August 31st, 2005 at 3:56 amI checked, you weren’t in B Co. 14th Combat Engineers and 193rd Combat Support Bn
dumb ass again
August 31st, 2005 at 3:57 amNO COMMENT?
wanna know why?????
August 31st, 2005 at 3:58 amcome on boy, tell me why you’re a fake?
August 31st, 2005 at 3:59 amcome on, I’m waiting.
August 31st, 2005 at 4:00 amtell me why, you won’t will you. FAKE.
YOU WERE NEVER IN THE B Co. 14th Combat Engineers and 193rd Combat Support Bn
WHY?
August 31st, 2005 at 4:01 amwhy?
August 31st, 2005 at 4:02 amI served, you didn’t, get over it.
August 31st, 2005 at 4:02 amtell me why, you won’t will you. FAKE.
YOU WERE NEVER IN THE B Co. 14th Combat Engineers and 193rd Combat Support Bn
WHY?
why?
August 31st, 2005 at 4:03 amYou don’t know because you are a FRAUD.
August 31st, 2005 at 4:03 amcome on why?
August 31st, 2005 at 4:04 amYou are a waste of a life.
August 31st, 2005 at 4:04 amI KNOW ALRIGHT! tell me why?
August 31st, 2005 at 4:05 amYou tell me.
August 31st, 2005 at 4:05 amYOU WERE NEVER IN THE B Co. 14th Combat Engineers and 193rd Combat Support Bn
WHY????
August 31st, 2005 at 4:06 amKJ IS A FRAUD!
August 31st, 2005 at 4:06 amWhat’s your DOB????
August 31st, 2005 at 4:06 amI SERVED, YOU DIDN’T.
August 31st, 2005 at 4:06 amcome on, why?
August 31st, 2005 at 4:07 amYOU’RE A FRAUD!
August 31st, 2005 at 4:07 amOh, I know why you won’t answer any questions. Because you were in the Iraqi Marines.
August 31st, 2005 at 4:08 amYOU WERE NEVER IN THE B Co. 14th Combat Engineers and 193rd Combat Support Bn
come on, tell us why?????
August 31st, 2005 at 4:08 amwhat’s your DOB?
August 31st, 2005 at 4:09 amI SERVED AND YOU DIDN’T, YOU’RE JEALOUS.
August 31st, 2005 at 4:09 amTELL ME WHAT A DD214 IS.
August 31st, 2005 at 4:10 amI HAVE A DD214. DO YOU?
August 31st, 2005 at 4:10 amYOU WERE NEVER IN THE B Co. 14th Combat Engineers and 193rd Combat Support Bn
THAT’S WHY.
August 31st, 2005 at 4:10 amWHAT’S YOUR MOS?
August 31st, 2005 at 4:11 amNOPE, I’M STILL THERE.
August 31st, 2005 at 4:11 amI HAVE AN HONORABLE DISCHARGE. DO YOU?
August 31st, 2005 at 4:11 amyour post slow down when you’re researching facts.
August 31st, 2005 at 4:12 amWHERE’S THERE?
August 31st, 2005 at 4:12 amsee 458
August 31st, 2005 at 4:13 amNO RESEARCHING GOING ON HERE.
August 31st, 2005 at 4:13 amdumb ass, what’s your DOB, that is the KEY IN YOUR STORY.
August 31st, 2005 at 4:14 amWHAT’S YOUR MOS? DON’T KNOW DO YOU?
August 31st, 2005 at 4:14 amYOU WERE NEVER IN THE B Co. 14th Combat Engineers and 193rd Combat Support Bn
that is why you sir are a dumbass.
August 31st, 2005 at 4:15 amI DON’T ANSWER TO SUBBORDINATES.
August 31st, 2005 at 4:16 amI SERVED, YOU DIDN’T. GET A LIFE
August 31st, 2005 at 4:16 amTHEN YOU CAN ANSWER ME BECAUSE I AM YOUR SUPERIOR.
August 31st, 2005 at 4:17 amDO YOU KNOW WHAT A NONCOM IS?
August 31st, 2005 at 4:17 amYOU’RE A FRAUD. I have really had a great time kicking your ass here, but I would love the opportunity to do it in PUBLIC.
give us your address, I will bring the KICK you bring the ASS, and our viewers will bring the cameras.
cheers, queer.
August 31st, 2005 at 4:18 amKEEP ON RESEARCHING, YOU FRAUD
August 31st, 2005 at 4:18 amI have the questions, that proves you don’t have ANY answers. FRAUD.
Non com (non compitent) means non-commissioned
August 31st, 2005 at 4:21 amKJ LOST THE ARGUMENT AND HE RAN OFF LIKE THE COWARD THAT HE IS.
August 31st, 2005 at 4:21 amBy the way, I missed your DOB
August 31st, 2005 at 4:22 amWHAT DOES MOS STAND FOR?
August 31st, 2005 at 4:22 amANSWER WITHOUT RESEARCHING.
August 31st, 2005 at 4:22 amI MISSED YOURS TOO.
August 31st, 2005 at 4:23 amAND BY THE WAY….YOU WERE NEVER IN THE B Co. 14th Combat Engineers and 193rd Combat Support Bn
I have access to files you don’t even know about.
August 31st, 2005 at 4:23 amyou missed my earlier post, i don’t answer to subbordinates.
August 31st, 2005 at 4:24 amat ease private.
August 31st, 2005 at 4:25 amYOU’RE SUCH A FRAUD IT’S ALMOST LAUGHABLE. YOU DON’T EVEN KNOW WHAT MOS STANDS FOR.
August 31st, 2005 at 4:26 amsuperior, tell me your DOB, and I will find you a FRAUD.
August 31st, 2005 at 4:28 amKJ, THERE ARE ONLY A SELECT FEW WHO CAN BE THE REAL GI JOE, LIKE I WAS, WHEREAS YOU MUST DRESS UP AND PRETEND.
August 31st, 2005 at 4:28 amyou haven’t bothered to ask my CURRENT RANK.
August 31st, 2005 at 4:29 amIT AIN’T E-5
August 31st, 2005 at 4:30 amWHEN I WANT YOU TO SPEAK I WILL GIVE YOU PERMISSON. IF YOU DO IT AGAIN I WILL GIVE YOU CAPTAIN’S MAST.
August 31st, 2005 at 4:30 amcome on, what’s your DOB? YOU AREN’T A MILITARY PERSON. YOU ARE A CHICKEN HAWK
August 31st, 2005 at 4:31 amYOUR CURRENT RANK IS YOU ARE A FRAUD.
August 31st, 2005 at 4:31 amWHAT’S YOUR DOB?
August 31st, 2005 at 4:32 amBITE ME
August 31st, 2005 at 4:32 amCOME ON you can do better than that….. what’s your DOB? WHY SO QUITE ABOUT THAT?
AND BY THE WAY….YOU WERE NEVER IN THE B Co. 14th Combat Engineers and 193rd Combat Support Bn
August 31st, 2005 at 4:33 amCHANGE names, go ahead… won’t work.
you are a fraud.
AND BY THE WAY….YOU WERE NEVER IN THE B Co. 14th Combat Engineers and 193rd Combat Support Bn
August 31st, 2005 at 4:35 amGood-bye KJ it’s been nice wiping the floor with your ass. I must go on to the next fraud. Hope you enjoy your fraudulent life. I’ll pray for you.
August 31st, 2005 at 4:41 amAND BY THE WAY….YOU WERE NEVER IN THE B Co. 14th Combat Engineers and 193rd Combat Support Bn
AND THAT WOULD BE WHY?????
What’s your DOB????
August 31st, 2005 at 4:42 amCOME ONE CHRISSY, i need some man puss to screw….
August 31st, 2005 at 4:43 amno comment, i thought so….
August 31st, 2005 at 4:44 amsuch a fraud…. they won’t answer questions….they only pose them….
oh well, another day, another wingnut.
August 31st, 2005 at 4:45 amI HAVE A DD214. DO YOU?
Comment by Chris — August 31, 2005 @ 4:10 am
So does John Kerry, but we can all see his online.
August 31st, 2005 at 4:48 amThey won’t answer because they are wrong, they are lying, and they are such B.S.’ers…… if you call them, they battle for a while, then they fail…..
they go home with their lying tails between their legs…..
like CHRISSY….
come on dems… GROW A SET.
August 31st, 2005 at 4:49 amI don’t have a DD214 ’cause I’m still THERE.
August 31st, 2005 at 4:50 amTHANKS AND GOODNITE!
August 31st, 2005 at 4:52 ami HAVE to admit that CHRISSY did fuss for a while, and pretend to be something he wasn’t, but in the end, she went off to bed like a good little girl.
she didn’t give the DOB, and that is the proof that she wasn’t in the SUPPORT aspect of the group.
piss off private.
August 31st, 2005 at 4:57 amback on target: blame clinton first….
largest budget surplus in history.
best economy in 50 years.
best liked president EVER.
liked BJ’s from REPUGnican whores….(major plus)
love the man!!!!!
dumbya:
August 31st, 2005 at 5:03 amtook largest budget surplus in history and turned it into the largest budget defecit in history.
worst economy EVER.
most HATED PRESIDENT EVER.
liked BJ’s from Jeff Gannon-I-swallow.
thanks, and good night, KJ has left the building…..
August 31st, 2005 at 5:05 amwill see you in a few hours….
Really, any moron knows what an MOS is. Chris probably thinks DOB refers to his date of birth. I’d say it’s about 12 years ago, give or take a year, but KJ wasn’t asking that.
August 31st, 2005 at 5:39 amKillCon, I know what DOB stands for and it still has no bearing on whether I was in a support unit or not.
August 31st, 2005 at 5:50 amWhat W forgot to include was what happened to those folks who bombed the World Trade Center the first time. They’re in jail, the same place Osama Bin Laden should be today. This play acting President doesn’t know the meaning of the “Buck Stops Here.”
August 31st, 2005 at 8:44 amClinton let Bin Laden stay free for the same reason Bush is right now. fear works. look at how all the cowardly conservatives voted for Bush because of their irrational fear of “terrorism”.there is NO reason to believe the CIA ever fully cut ties with Bin Laden. the CIA doesnt just cut ties like that.the CIA is the most powerful criminal gang on the planet.
August 31st, 2005 at 9:13 amBush also conveniently forgets the unawareness and ineptitude of his administration that was warned repeatedly before taking office of the dire threat from Al Queda. See story at 65.35.205.210/terror_bush.htm
August 31st, 2005 at 9:24 amNED: Kerry and most of the Democratic leaders voted for the war because they BELIEVED the intel to be truthful. At the time it was inconceivable that the President of the United States would lie and twist intellegence to sell a war. I have no idea why any of them can’t just admit they were duped like the rest of the country and I have my issues with them over that, but it’s pretty clear they voted on authorization for war BASED on the lies that were presented to them.
August 31st, 2005 at 10:10 amyes, our government,particularly republicans, but democrats as well, are f*cked up and corrupt. but i would argue that the media is a much bigger problem for duping people like NED into believing the lies.the Dems helped cover up 9/11. just remember that.
August 31st, 2005 at 10:11 amJohn Kerry saw the same intelligence report as the President and made up his own mind. When will you people on the left start telling the truth?
August 31st, 2005 at 10:28 amThese Posts contain several well stated points of view concerning President Bush’s level of incompetence and character.
However, as I read more and more blogs, it appears that we are more and more letting our frustrations take over – we are acting and sounding more and more like (eg. Ann Coulter, Limbaugh) the extreme right.
Fighting fire with fire will only make us feel better for a brief few moments, but it not changing the reality.
Bush has no plan for Iraq – we know that. What we – the Democratic party – must do, is to focus on developing a plan to win the war to take back America.
August 31st, 2005 at 10:28 ami love how you people think politics matter. two sides of the same coin.you have no voice. John Kerry is just as culpable as Bush when it comes to coverups and corruption. if Kerry would have won, the agenda would still be the same.you people are so blind.
August 31st, 2005 at 10:30 amAs long as democrats are weak on national defense they will continue to be the minority party. If democrats ever regain control of the white house, the house, and the senate this country will crumble. The goal of the democrats is to have the U.S. become the next USSR.
August 31st, 2005 at 10:31 amYou fools, Bush and the military industrialists are directly responsible for 9-11. Dick Cheney directed Turkish and Saudi moneymen to pay the bills of the 9-11 terrorists through Turkish and Israeli bagmen. Why did Republicans Tom DeLay and Sensenbrenner take bribes from these 9-11 bagmen? Why won’t Congress or the Grand Jury indict these insane neocon madmen?
August 31st, 2005 at 10:45 amFBI translator, Sibel Edmonds, along with Joe Wilson, Paul O’ Neill, Christie Todd Whitman, Richard Clarke, Paul Wellstone, Gen. Shinsaki, Wes Clark, and many, many others have all said so.
Wellstone was murdered by this administration.
August 31st, 2005 at 10:49 amdont forget Cynthia Mckinney mondo. shes one of the last respectable politicans around.
August 31st, 2005 at 10:51 amdont mind Chris, hes a typical gullible conservative.they have this irrational fear of terrorism that causes them to be big pussies and beg to be protected from the “evil muslims”.typical MSM consumer.
August 31st, 2005 at 10:52 amALL of them including the Bush’s have blame coming. To those who ONLY blame Bush because it happened on his watch. If you play that game than you’ll have to ONLY blame FDR for WW2 and Truman for Korea because it happened on their watch.
August 31st, 2005 at 11:26 amDid any of you think that the war in iraq was purposley planned poorly, so that it would be a long draen out war. I mean haliburton charges $300 a toliet seat. They are just thinking of the bottom line & trying to recieve what is owed to them for putting this puppet into office
August 31st, 2005 at 11:34 amyes Patrick, i happen to believe that myself. its obvious they had no plan whatsoever, the question is why?they need a base in the middle east, and Iraq is it.
August 31st, 2005 at 11:35 amHas anyone posting here bothered to read the “Pax Americana Project from 1997″? It will tell all about what will happen to this country in the future. Main characters who wrote it are Cheney, Rumsfield, Wolfowitz etc. Look it up.
August 31st, 2005 at 11:36 amyou mean PNAC Jean?
August 31st, 2005 at 11:37 amI think Northwest Dilemma deserves an answer to his question, What does he need to know about 911? A lot. Check out this website for full info: http://www.911inplanesite.com Some questions to ask yourself: 1)what is the tube-shaped object attached to the bottom of the plane as it slams into the World Trade Center? Such a large object cannot be just strapped on, there must be strengthening and bolstering of the internal structure to allow a commercial airplane to fly carrying such an object. And what was it anyway? Why is there a flash of an explosion at exactly the point of impact on the building? Was this a missle? How did a regular commercial flight arrange to be carrying a missle, get the plane retrofitted to carry it, and still get the go-ahead to take off on time?
August 31st, 2005 at 11:45 am2) Within moments, fighter jets automatically deploy anytime a flight deflects from its prescribed course. This did not occur on 911. Why not? Who gave the order for them to stand down?
3) Why was the entire family of Osama Bin Laden flown out of the country in the immediate hours after 911, when no other planes were allowed to fly? Who gave the order for that to occur? Hundreds of people were detained, and remain detained at Gitmo, some of whom are remotely or not at all connected to this event, yet the direct family of the one they claims masterminded this event, no one was interested in even questioning–what’s up?
4) The hole in the Pentagon was only 16 ft wide, but the plane they say hit it is some 125 ft wide, how does that figure? Also, in the video taken right the supposedly plane hit, there is no plane wreckage at all in video, no wings, no engine, no seats, no passengers, nothing! What’s up? I have questions, but no answers. Margaret.
Post 461 is interesting in that it states the obvious, as do most of the rest. What we all have in common is a future America free from the domination of interest groups that make $$$, war and social division their chief priorities. Here we are, sqabbling about why what happened, instead of being determined and focusing on what needs to happen to keep people connected, educated and most importantly, open-minded, so we aren’t subject to manipulation and idiological bickering and nit-picking. The policies of this Admin. are narrow and cater to fear, paranoia and hate. There was an Amer Admin, not too long ago, that engaged the world, made friends and made us all safe – and prosperous. This is what we traded in for that brighter future. This is what “WE” allowed the world to become…
August 31st, 2005 at 11:52 amNice post Margaret Just. KJ, we all know that Chris is a chickenhawk. You proved your case well.
As always, votetoimpeach.org.
August 31st, 2005 at 11:57 amSusan, when will we all come together and demand the truth about 9/11? there is more than enough of us out here who are willing to accept the truth about 9/11, we just have to galvanize somehow.
August 31st, 2005 at 12:00 pm#463, I thought I TOOK YOU OUT you a few hours ago, JUST LIKE DUMBYA, RUN AND HIDE AND when the coast is MORE CLEAR, COME BACK AGAIN.
August 31st, 2005 at 12:04 pmthanks susan.
August 31st, 2005 at 12:05 pmBTW, chrissy sounds like B.S. red, Nor East DIMENTIA, and Concerned Commie all rolled into one,
WONDER IF CHRISSY IS THE I.D. when she is off her meds.
August 31st, 2005 at 12:07 pmYou know, when ALL the personalities collide…
August 31st, 2005 at 12:08 pmAnyone?
August 31st, 2005 at 12:18 pmTell us what terrorist attack on the United States during GHB should GWB have included in his address.
Note to many posters: Please reference the post to which you are responding.
Comments such as, “You are the patsy. Someone living in the past will never get ahead.†Without a reference is meaningless.
#305 Chris, If homosexuality is unnatural, then why are there so many wild animals that are gay? Is nature unnatural?
Chris, here are a few many lies about Iraq that the Bush admin. Has repeated.
August 31st, 2005 at 12:20 pm1. The Niger uranium deal, which they dredged up for the state of the union after the CIA told them it was bogus!
2. Saddam had drones that could attack the US. (They were model planes!)
3. Saddam had chemical weapons that could be used in 45 minutes.
4. Saddam was involved in 9/11.
5. Saddam supported Osama, when in fact they are mortal enemies.
6. Saddam was months away from make a nuke. In fact it was more than 10 years!
7. We found mobile biological weapons labs. (They were trailers to generate hydrogen for weather balloons sold to them by the British.)
How ’bout it? Tell us what terrorist attack on the United States during GHB should GWB have included in his address.
August 31st, 2005 at 12:28 pmNote to Chris and others calling others conspiracy nuts. Calling someone a conspiracy nut is just a way to try to discredit someone without responding to their argument.
Here is a quote about conspiracy.
“‘Conspiracy stuff’ is now shorthand for unspeakable truth.”
– Gore Vidal, Observer (UK), October 27, 2003
Note to many: Name calling is another way to avoid real discussion. Please refrain.
Conspiracy Theory
Description
A is true. B is why the truth cannot be proven. So A is true.
Make a statement. Then explain why it cannot be proven. Accuse anyone who challenges the second statement of trying to cover up the truth. Use this attempt as proof that the original statement is true.
Example
Flying saucers have landed. The government is covering it up, which is why there is no evidence about it. Of course they deny it!
The senior managers in this company are bleeding it dry. But then they control the accounts, which is why finances seems to be healthy.
Discussion
This fallacy works by making it impossible to challenge the proving statement without proving it. The focus of attention is thus moved to the person trying to disprove the ‘proof’, and reframes their refutation as further proof.
Classification
Distraction
Also known as
Canceling Hypotheses
Here are a few web sites that describe fallacies use to attempt to defeat facts that you cannot defeat with your own facts.
http://www.deanza.edu/faculty/anelli/philo4/phil4hw/fallacysheet2answers.html
http://changingminds.org/disciplines/argument/fallacies/fallacies_alpha.htm
http://www.class.uidaho.edu/crit_think/Chapter-Seven-1.htm
All to often people on both sides of the debate use these types of attacks and feel that they have won the argument, when they did nothing of the sort.
August 31st, 2005 at 12:35 pmTell us what terrorist attack on the United States during GHB should GWB have included in his address.
August 31st, 2005 at 12:39 pmAs far as 9/11, the 2000, 2002, and 2004 elections there are many inconsistencies that need to be seriously examined. They may be nothing, but they may be part of conspiracies. Until a serious investigation is done, there will always be a question. ALso, the 9/11 commision which was appointed by Bush, DID NOT do a serious investigation!
Also, look into all of the problems in the Ohio vote that John Conyers and others have compiled.
August 31st, 2005 at 12:41 pmNo distractions please. Tell us what terrorist attack on the United States during GHB should GWB have included in his address.
August 31st, 2005 at 12:44 pmCreamy Goodness:
We read your post the first time!
SImply repeating the same thing over and over is not a valid discussion method. Please stop wasting bandwidth with your repeating.
August 31st, 2005 at 12:50 pmIt is completely relevant to this thread because Judd posted:
Conveniently, Bush doesn’t mention any terrorist attack that occurred during his father’s administration.)
Now try again. What terrorist attack do you think GWB should have mentioned.
August 31st, 2005 at 1:05 pmHow sad. You have proven my rant (#210)to be correct. You are all mentally unhinged and will bluster and blame your country into a massive internal bloody war. Left against right. Poor against rich. Evangelists against all other religions and agnostics.White against Black. Anglos against Latinos.Military against civilians. Citizens against emigrants.Warmongers against pacifists.Christians against Muslims. Jews against Goyim. Us against them. Past against future.Deluded against deranged.Hetero’ against Homosexuals.Men against women. Adults against children .And so on and vice versa. You must unite all these elements or suffer the consequences of hatred. In mourning for the unborn. D.F.
August 31st, 2005 at 1:45 pmThis article just proves once again that liberals will destroy America if given the chance.
History lesson on “Jihad Johnny†CONyers, Jr. (D-MI)
Why “Jihad Johnny� During the last Gulf War, “Jihad Johnny†worked closely with then representative David “Half-baked†Bonior (D-MI) to prevent FBI intelligence-gathering operations in Detroit. These intelligence gathering operations in 1990 were to cultivate Arab sources in the Detroit area for preventing terrorist plots.
When FBI sources started to question Arabs in the Detroit area, asking if they knew of any terrorists and suggesting they contact the FBI about terrorist activity, representative “Half-baked†Bonior shouted racism while joining his buddies, “Jihad Johnny†CONyers, and Johnny “Dingbat†Dingall (D-MI) to hold hearings in the House of representatives until the FBI would be forced to stop their counterterrorism intelligence activities.
After several private meetings between FBI Director William Baker about the national security reasons for the program, the “Jihad triangle†of Bonior, CONyers, and Dingall in Michigan would not let up on their obstruction and the FBI backed off.
More recently, “Jihad Johnny†CONyers attacked Tom Ridge when he was Governor of Pennsylvania for signing the execution warrant of Mumia Abu-Jamal. Jamal was a Muslim militant who murdered a Philadelphia police officer by shooting him in the back and then in the face at point blank range. “Jihad Johnny†has also come to the rescue of murderer Leonard Peltier. Peltier murdered FBI Special Agents Ronald Williams and Jack Coler.
At about a year after the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, “Jihad Johnny†CONyers sued the Justice Department to force an open hearing for Osama bin Ladin terrorist network fundraiser Rabih Haddad.
“Jihad Johnny†CONyers holds frightening positions of power in the Congress. Currently he is the most senior Democrat on the Judiciary committee, the same committee that oversees the FBI and Justice Department. In this role, he also writes and amends antiterrorism laws.
None of this should come as a surprise, “Jihad Johnny†CONyers is a member of the “Progressive†Caucus, a communist front group. “Jihad Johnny†serves on the board of directors for the radical Marxist Liberation Theology group the “Aristide Foundation for Democracyâ€. Aristide, the once removed president of Haiti, has Congressional allies such as “Jihad Johnny†to thank for continuing in Anti-Americanism, murder, and drug trafficking. “Jihad Johnny†CONyers has also participated in the Soviet Communist backed “World Peace Council†as the only US Congressperson to speak at the Soviet Communist event.
Hmmmm, could all of this be considered treason by giving aid and comfort to an enemy? And certainly a careful study of the record shows that “Jihad Johnny†CONyers is CERTAINLY a terrorist sympathizer, but is he a terrorist operative as well?
August 31st, 2005 at 1:54 pmHow bout this, Creamy?
Assassination of U.S. Army Officer, April 21, 1989: The New People’s Army (NPA) assassinated Colonel James Rowe in Manila. The NPA also assassinated two U.S. government defense contractors in September.
Bombing of UTA Flight 772, September 19, 1989: A bomb explosion destroyed UTA Flight 772 over the Sahara Desert in southern Niger during a flight from Brazzaville to Paris. All 170 persons aboard were killed. Six Libyans were later found guilty in absentia and sentenced to life imprisonment.
Assassination of German Bank Chairman, November 30, 1989: The Red Army Faction assassinated Deutsche Bank Chairman Alfred Herrhausen in Frankfurt.
U.S. Embassy Bombed in Peru, January 15, 1990: The Tupac Amaru Revolutionary Movement bombed the U.S. Embassy in Lima, Peru.
U.S. Soldiers Assassinated in the Philippines, May 13, 1990: The New People’s Army (NPA) killed two U.S. Air Force personnel near Clark Air Force Base in the Philippines.
Attempted Iraqi Attacks on U.S. Posts, January 18-19, 1991: Iraqi agents planted bombs at the U.S. Ambassador to Indonesia’s home residence and at the USIS library in Manila.
Sniper Attack on the U.S. Embassy in Bonn, February 13, 1991: Three Red Army Faction members fired automatic rifles from across the Rhine River at the U.S. Embassy Chancery. No one was hurt.
August 31st, 2005 at 1:56 pmOh BTW I just did some research and found out that KJ was disqualified from the military because he is gay. He only wishes he were man enough to be in the military. He is just a fruitcake.
August 31st, 2005 at 1:56 pmIt’s time to face facts people, our democratic republic is no more.
While all this blather about left vs right, NeoCon vs NeoLib runs on and on, the criminal politicians are condesendingly patting us on the backside while robbing the american economy blind.
“Pay no attention to the men behind the curtain, as we are the mighty corporate entities, entitled to all worldly resources at any cost”.
Because we have unaccountable, easily hackable black box voting now in key districs (see Ohio) and what amounts to a single political party system disguised as a “multi party” democratic system, voting is now merely another form of polling public opinion and therefore of questionable validity.
It is time for the Disenfranchised Democratic leaning constituents to take action.
Become a republican.
Enter the belly of the beast and effect change from within the one true political power in america, the Corporate owned and operated US politicicians.
The democrats have sunk into being merely repubican wannabe’s. More posers, posing for the photo op while talking tough on terrorism…blah blah blah. We get enough of that everyday from the likes of Dumbya’s stoogs and Faux news…yellow elephants and chickenhawks.
Think about it: Guerilla politics may be our only chance of swaying these souless corporate stooges.
If their “base” calls for change from within, they are much more likely to respond and take action according to their internal “polling” data.
Yes, the republican party has been co opted by big business hiding behind neoconservative issues. Yes, they’re a holier than thou scandle ridden bunch.
Yes, they control the mainstream media while claiming their employees are a bunch of left wing biased liberals, yes they are clearly tucked in bed with the oil industry.
There are a lot of reasons a reasonably moral and introspective person would not be inclined to join up with such patriotic chickenhawk “pirates” of washington.
However, when we look to the supposed democratic “opposition” party for leaders and ledership, we are left standing alone in the cold while the wholesale destruction of our system of checks and balances is dismantled by the republicon neocons and replaced by conservative theocrats.
Become a republican and we might have a chance at saving what’s left of our DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC.
August 31st, 2005 at 1:56 pmLiberalism is a danger to you freedoms.
August 31st, 2005 at 2:03 pmUS missed three chances to seize Bin Laden
The Sunday Times of London 01/06/2002
PRESIDENT Bill Clinton turned down at least three offers involving foreign governments to help to seize Osama Bin Laden after he was identified as a terrorist who was threatening America, according to sources in Washington and the Middle East.
Clinton himself, according to one Washington source, has described the refusal to accept the first of the offers as “the biggest mistake” of his presidency.
The main reasons were legal: there was no evidence that could be brought against Bin Laden in an American court. But former senior intelligence sources accuse the administration of a lack of commitment to the fight against terrorism.
When Sudanese officials claimed late last year that Washington had spurned Bin Laden’s secret extradition from Khartoum in 1996, former White House officials said they had no recollection of the offer. Senior sources in the former administration now confirm that it was true.
An Insight investigation has revealed that far from being an isolated incident this was the first in a series of missed opportunities right up to Clinton’s last year in office. One of these involved a Gulf state; another would have relied on the assistance of Saudi Arabia.
In early 1996 America was putting strong pressure on Sudan’s Islamic government to expel Bin Laden, who had been living there since 1991. Sources now reveal that Khartoum sent a former intelligence officer with Central Intelligence Agency connections to Washington with an offer to hand over Bin Laden — just as it had put another terrorist, Carlos the Jackal, into French hands in 1994.
At the time the State Department was describing Bin Laden as “the greatest single financier of terrorist projects in the world” and was accusing Sudan of harbouring terrorists. The extradition offer was turned down, however. A former senior White House source said: “There simply was not the evidence to prosecute Osama Bin Laden. He could not be indicted, so it would serve no purpose for him to have been brought into US custody.”
A former figure in American counterterrorist intelligence claims, however, that there was “clear and convincing” proof of Bin Laden’s conspiracy against America. In May, 1996, American diplomats were informed in a Sudanese government fax that Bin Laden was about to be expelled — giving Washington another chance to seize him. The decision not to do so went to the very top of the White House, according to former administration sources.
They say that the clear focus of American policy was to discourage the state sponsorship of terrorism. So persuading Khartoum to expel Bin Laden was in itself counted as a clear victory. The administration was “delighted”.
Bin Laden took off from Khartoum on May 18 in a chartered C-130 plane with 150 of his followers, including his wives. He was bound for Jalalabad in eastern Afghanistan. On the way the plane refuelled in the Gulf state of Qatar, which has friendly relations with Washington, but he was allowed to proceed unhindered.
Barely a month later, on June 25, a 5,000lb truck bomb ripped apart the front of Khobar Towers, a US military housing complex in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia. The explosion killed 19 American servicemen. Bin Laden was immediately suspected.
Clinton is reported to have admitted how things went wrong in Sudan at a private dinner at a Manhattan restaurant shortly after September 11 last year. According to a witness, Clinton told a dinner companion that the decision to let Bin Laden go was probably “the biggest mistake of my presidency”.
Clinton could not be reached for comment yesterday, but a former senior White House official acknowledged that the Sudan episode had been a “screw-up”.
A second offer to get Bin Laden came unofficially from Mansoor Ijaz, a Pakistani-American millionaire who was a donor to Clinton’s election campaign in 1996. On July 6, 2000, he visited John Podesta, then the president’s chief of staff, to say that intelligence officers from a Gulf state were offering to help to extract Bin Laden.
Details of the meeting are confirmed in an exchange of e-mails between the White House and Ijaz, which have been seen by The Sunday Times. According to Ijaz, the offer involved setting up an Islamic relief fund to aid Afghanistan in return for the Taliban handing over Bin Laden to the Gulf state. America could then extract Bin Laden from there.
The Sunday Times has established that after a fierce internal row about the sincerity of the offer, the White House responded by sending Richard Clarke, Clinton’s most senior counterterrorism adviser, to meet the rulers of the United Arab Emirates. They denied there was any such offer. Ijaz, however, maintained that the White House had thereby destroyed the deal, which was to have been arranged only through unofficial channels. Ijaz said that weeks later on a return trip to the Gulf he was taken on a late-night ride into the desert by his contact who told him that Clarke’s front-door approach had upset a delicate internal balance and blown the deal. “Your government has missed a major opportunity,” he recalls being told.
Senior former government sources said that Ijaz’s offer had been treated in good faith but, with the denial of the UAE government, there was nothing to suggest it had credibility.
A third more mysterious offer to help came from the intelligence services of Saudi Arabia, then led by Prince Turki al-Faisal, according to Washington sources. Details of the offer are still unclear although, by one account, Turki offered to help to place a tracking device in the luggage of Bin Laden’s mother, who was seeking to make a trip to Afghanistan to see her son. The CIA did not take up the offer.
Richard Shelby, the leading Republican on the Senate intelligence committee, said he was aware of a Saudi offer to help although, under rules protecting classified information, he was unable to discuss the details of any offer. Commenting generally, he said: “I don’t believe that the fight against terrorism was the number one goal of the Clinton administration.”
August 31st, 2005 at 2:21 pmJust think what it would be like today if Clinton would have done something to combat terrorism. All these attacks and he did absolutely nothing.
After the 1995 bombing in Saudi Arabia, which killed five US military
personnel; Clinton promised that those responsible would be hunted down
and punished.
After the 1996 Khobar Towers bombing in Saudi Arabia, which killed 19
and injured 200 US military personnel; Clinton promised that those
responsible would be hunted down and punished.
After the 1998 bombing of US embassies in Africa, which killed 224 and
injured 5,000; Clinton promised that those responsible! would be hunted
down! and punished.
After the 2000 bombing of the USS Cole, which killed 17 and injured 39
US sailors; Clinton promised that those responsible would be hunted down
and punished.
Maybe if Clinton had kept his promise, an estimated 3,000 people in New
August 31st, 2005 at 2:24 pmYork and Washington, DC that are now dead would be alive today
#482 Creamy Goodness
Judd made his statement ONCE
It was relevant the first time, but not the 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc. time.
You have now repeated the same question 6 times!!
As I said, we read it the first time!
August 31st, 2005 at 2:44 pm#492 Comment to Chris
“The main reasons were legal: there was no evidence that could be brought against Bin Laden in an American court.”
See, Clinton believed in the Constitution, and followed the laws of the land!
Bush has used the Patriot Act and plain criminal action to subvert the Constitution and international law.
From Article VI of the US COnstitution:
“This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding. ”
Note, apparently Bush never read this part! He has violated several treaties without them ever being rescinded, including the Geneva Convention which the US Senate ratified!
Also see:
http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2004/05/24/usint8614.htm
The Patriot Act will come in handy when the next Democratic President comes into office. He (or she) can declare the whole mob of neoCONs as enemy combatants and disappear them!
August 31st, 2005 at 2:52 pmis it just me,, or does Chris sound just like Hannity,Malkin,Coulter,OReilly,Limbaugh, etc?
August 31st, 2005 at 2:55 pm#490 Chris
So, Clinton knows a lot of people? If you know many people, then many of them will have died. Also, COULD it be that Republicans are killing them to get back at Cinton?
Also, you list dead bodyguards who are military. How many of them were KILLED by BUSH’S illegal war in Iraq?
August 31st, 2005 at 2:55 pmGee Chris, no comment about the Constitution?
Show me anything in the Constitution that says that Presidents are above the law.
Show me anything in the Constitution that says that Presidents are above the law.
Show me anything in the Constitution that says that Presidents are above the law.
Sorry, I am starting to act like Creamed Up Badness!
August 31st, 2005 at 2:57 pmGod, I hope Judd purges this “Chris” idiots other posts. The Clinton Body guard list was debunked by Snopes years ago. What a tool! Talk about useful idiots.
Claim: Bill Clinton has been quietly doing away with those who oppose him.
Status: False.
http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/clinton.htm
Is it any wonder the dumbya got into office? How can you not feel superior to these fvcktards. A dead ” “Clinton Bodyguard” has more brains than your average conservative voter these days.
August 31st, 2005 at 3:01 pmThis article just proves once again that liberals will destroy America if given the chance.
That Chris guy is a sick fvcktard. Ignore him.
“Pseudoconservativism is among other things a disorder in relation to authority, characterized by an inability to find other modes for human relationship than those of more or less complete domination or submission … The pseudo-conservative is a man who, in the name of upholding traditional American values and institutions and defending them against more or less fictitious dangers, consciously or unconsciously aims at their abolition … [He] sees his own country as being so weak that it is constantly about to fall victim to subversion; and yet he feels that it is so all-powerful that any failure it may experience in getting its way in the world … cannot possibly be due to its limitations but must be attributed to its having been betrayed.â€
August 31st, 2005 at 3:04 pm–Richard Hofstadter, The Paranoid Style in American Politics and Other Essays, 1965.
Point being, if something like “liberalism” can destroy America, or any country for that matter, it’s too weak to survive in any case. Let’s rip it up.
August 31st, 2005 at 3:07 pmChris is Freepin Fvcktard! LMAO!
August 31st, 2005 at 3:12 pmAnother lie from our White House Coward. HIS response to 9/11: “…..they looked at our response and concluded that Osama Bin Laden and Family are exempt from required action on MY part” Four years now of pretending about brass balls.
August 31st, 2005 at 3:24 pmHere is a web site for all of you who think that war is great!
http://lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm
“First published in 1935, “War is a Racket” was written by the eccentric Medal of Honor winner (twice) and war hero, Marine General Smedley D. Butler.”
“Because Butler is the rare career professional who had an epiphany and realized that he was being used as a cog in a machine, and that the people running the machine (in this case the war machine) could care less about him or any other soldier. Butler doesn’t mince words: “I spent 33 years in the Marines, most of my time being a high-class muscle man for big business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer for Capitalism.” Whoa, hold onto your hats!”
The quotes above are from:
http://www.buzzflash.com/reviews/05/08/rev05081.html
August 31st, 2005 at 3:25 pm#265 Addendum to Abe
“So, I always laugh at those that say we haven’t been hit by terrorists since 911.”
I have always been amazed at this. Don’t they remember that is was 8 years between the WTC bombing and 9/11. Osama is a home run hitter, and is planning for an attack bigger than 9/11. planning for such an attack takes time.
Since the borders are porous since we are spending homeland security money defending Montana and Wyoming from attack rather than guarding the borders they can bring in as may people and bombs as they want.
Just wait a year or two!
August 31st, 2005 at 3:39 pmDumbya doesn’t want to play the blame game? There is overwhelming evidence pointing directly to government complicity in 9/11. It’s about time we had a special prosecutor for a real investigation. Our national dialogue has been bogus and our media a sad collection of obsequious sycophants.
August 31st, 2005 at 4:12 pmIt only took more than a day for somebody to answer a question that was relevant to this thread and Cynical-ex-hippie stepped up to the plate. Very good. Although a couple of them we’re not attacks on the U.S. I’m impressed you included the one about Iraqqi Intelligence in ‘91. And it probably took so long for someone (note muddmike couldn’t) to respond because no one thinks of these as being as devastating as the ones Bush refered to in his address. So I suggest that’s why Bush was “conveniently” not mentioning them. With that said, no where in the address does Bush blame former presidents. He is saying, as many terrorist experts agree, that our previous reponse to terrorists attacks have been ineffective. When will you guys point out that Judd’s posts are always misleading at the very least, if not lying?
And muddmike, your refusal to answer a relevant question with distraction, then making fun of my name contradicts your post (copy and pasted lecture) about responding to and debating an argument makes you look like a fool. One of these days I’m going to respond to you lies. be prepared.
August 31st, 2005 at 6:04 pmRepublicans during Clinton’s term said: “We should argue the case for peace. We should argue the case for national sovereignty. We should not allow our President to use U.N. resolutions to wage war….”
Republicans during Clinton’s term claim he has no authority whatsoever to make war against a country which has neither attacked the United States or posed to do so.
Republicans during Clinton’s term claim Osama bin Laden’s camp in Afghanistan consisted of shacks and tents, hardly a fit target for a missile that costs nearly a million dollars per copy.
Republican Joe Farah points out in his Between the Lines (12/18/98) that “As president, Bill Clinton has squandered $5.5 billion in U.S. taxpayer dollars on containing the Iraqi threat.â€
Republicans claim Iraq and Osama weren’t worth it During Clinton’s Term.
Source: Congressional Records
August 31st, 2005 at 7:18 pmMore distractions and lies using selected quotes that inaccurately represent Republicans positions regarding Clinton Admin. How convenient. Now for the real deal:
The New York Times (12/18/98, p. A20) reported that “Under criticism from both parties, Senator Trent Lott of Mississippi, the majority leader, backed away from his charge that the strikes were linked to impeachment. After overnight reflection, he said, ‘I am satisfied this was a military decision.’…
“A parade of Republican Senators — including John McCain of Arizona, Richard G. Lugar of Indiana, John W. Warner of Virginia and Jesse Helms of North Carolina — voiced support for the President’s decision to strike now. All are prominent party spokesmen on defense and foreign policy matters.”
August 31st, 2005 at 8:20 pmCome on Ann, give us the rest of the quote! But there was a resolution passed by Congress giving Bush the authority, RIGHT?!
Republicans during Clinton’s term said: “We should argue the case for peace. We should argue the case for national sovereignty. We should not allow our President to use U.N. resolutions to wage war…
…It is an affront to our nation’s sovereignty and our constitution that the President presently launches war on Iraq under the aegis of a UN resolution but without the Constitutionally required authorization by the United States Congress.”
August 31st, 2005 at 8:26 pmYour a complete moron Creamy freak. You have nothing intelligent to say. Just because you and Chris are too stupid to comprehend the truth doesn’t give you the right to waste our time. You are chickenhawks, you have no credibility therefore you are useless.
August 31st, 2005 at 10:34 pmSewie put down her bon-bons long enough to hurl insults and name calling. That’s all she ever has to offer. She should read muddmike’s copy and paste lecture on discussion and debate.
August 31st, 2005 at 10:49 pmTo The Northeast Dilemma,
Have you ever wondered WHY these people were driven to target America and commit that horrendous act?
September 1st, 2005 at 2:48 amWhy does anyone think that the way to deal with hatred is to attack those who hate you? I am afraid we Americans have watched waaaaaaaaay to many Hollywood movies and have no grasp of reality at all.
September 1st, 2005 at 2:49 am#505 Creamy Goodness
Your repeaded posting of the same question does not make you look intelligent. People read it the first time. Actually I found the same list that the other poster listed. However, I have a JOB and don’t have time to just sit at my computer.
As for posting part of an article or references to articles that were researched by experts, how is this bad compared to simply posting personal opinions or political party talking points, which are meant to deceive? By the way, BOTH parties play the talking points game, so I check out the facts before believing either party. I have always been an independent and have voted for the candidate that I thought was best. However, if the candidate that I voted for did something bad, I did not try to defend them.
September 1st, 2005 at 7:52 amTo Creamy Goodness:
I apologize for calling you names, however, you insistence at repeating the same posting five times in less than an hour is terribly frustrating to those looking for intelligent discussion. Why do you seem to think that everyone should drop everything to answer your question immediately?
September 1st, 2005 at 8:02 amQuestions for you over in the US:
1) Why is it that being a LIBERAL is akin to being a satanist? Why can’t you do the same to the REPUBLICAN word and ridicule it for what it really means?
2) Why aren’t you demonising Murdoch and his cohorts for what they really are? And why do you still support a weak, compliant media?
3) Why do you not pay heed to your history? Do you not remember Nixon?
4) Why aren’t they more of you taking to the streets and throw out the donkeys from the White 5ouse?
5) Why is it that you place so much faith in a man-made sky cult, particularly -and paradoxically- when church attendances are at their lowest in history?
6) Why do you listen to known profiteers -read hypocritical- such as Pat Robertson and the rest of those mealy mouths when they are actually after your hard-earned dollars -ahem- in the name of God?
7) How much more can you take from Iraq, Afghanistan and your obsolete foreign policies?
Wake up and smell the coffins!
A concerned European who happens to love dearly America and one who is saddened at what’s going on right now….
September 1st, 2005 at 8:26 amOuternet, the media is essentially owned by the government. thats how they made liberal a bad word,thats why they do stories about missing white girls and celebrity trials rather than 9/11,Downing street memo,Iran, etc. thats why people like me feel so hopeless.we are up against a machine.if we took to the streets, we would no doubt be ignored by the corporate media.im at a loss. i dont know what to do. i understand your frustration with the american people. im here, i feel it too.9/11 was a turning point,the media officially died that day.they have been cowards ever since.(not that they were very good before then).i hate to say it, but so many of the amercian people are gullible cowards that have an irrational fear of terrorism because this government allowed 9/11 to happen to further their own sick needs.most people in america dont know, or dont want to face the facts.
September 1st, 2005 at 9:27 amThis Chris guy is just pathetic. Dude, why are you so obssessed with Bill Clinton? He’s been out of office over 5 years? What, are you in love with him? Typical Republican…. ‘in the closet’ chickenhawk.
And as far as this Kool Aid drinkin Mary who keeps squawking about GHW Bush, give me a break. This is the same Bush senior who helped assassinate JFK.
Read Webster Tarpley’s, ‘George HW Bush; an Unauthorized Biography’
Unauthorized Biography of
http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
September 1st, 2005 at 11:47 amOH YES !
republicans are :
evil,money-grubbing,war-mongers who want to starve their children & old people while polluting the earth,air & water so our planet will be uninhabitable.
In the meantime they want to use up ALL the oil & kill anyone who gets in the way while robbing women of the RIGHT to choose unprotected sex! …and expecting the NEA to take responsibility for wasting more & more money while their results go down decade after decade – how dare they !
Why can’t they be more like Democrats:
Honest, caring, compassionate folks who just want to do what they know is best for us all !
HMMM.. . . . . .
November 1st, 2005 at 5:24 pmInteresting that Bush needed Clinton to go sort out the Tsunami funding, and again he needed Clinton to sort out the Hurricane Katrina chaos!!
Does he intend to blame Clinton for these two as well? :-)
November 5th, 2005 at 4:12 pmClinton’s inactivity caused 9/11 not to be stopped. bush has had to erase the mistakes of clintons administration. he has to endure the bad publicity clinton avoided to actually get something done.
September 11th, 2006 at 3:51 pmLife Insurance…
tangent sausages ads?speaking profiteer %3…
January 16th, 2007 at 12:29 pmWho’s going to erase Bushes mountain of mistakes?Haven’t you all been paying attention to his “suspicious” doings and motives from 9/11 and the Irac war and his mishandling of events the whole way?! Haven’t you all seen Ferinheight9/11?
February 26th, 2007 at 1:11 amGo to “evil personalities” and click on the site,”the types of evil personalities” by Robert Canup!
February 26th, 2007 at 12:55 pm[...] Comment: As his poll numbers sink, Bush is getting desperate. From his address today in San Diego: [...]
March 17th, 2007 at 10:54 pm