As his poll numbers sink, Bush is getting desperate. From his address today in San Diego:
They looked at our response after the hostage crisis in Iran, the bombings of the Marine barracks in Lebanon, the first World Trade Center attack, the killing of American soldiers in Somalia, the destruction of two U.S. embassies in Africa, and the attack on the USS Cole. They concluded that free societies lacked the courage and character to defend themselves against a determined enemy… After September the 11th, 2001, we’ve taught the terrorists a very different lesson: America will not run in defeat and we will not forget our responsibilities.
(Conveniently, Bush doesn’t mention any terrorist attack that occurred during his father’s administration.)
Once upon a time, the President didn’t believe in playing the blame game:
Well, the President is not one that focuses on blame or finger pointing. The President focuses on what we need to do to address challenges.
It appears that statement is inoperative.
Of course he would blame someone else. It’s not like he would ever take personal responsiblity.
August 30th, 2005 at 1:59 pmI think somebody is spiking his vacation punch.
August 30th, 2005 at 1:59 pmJudd - you simply DO NOT understand the war on terror. You never will. 9/11 was the ultimate crime against America. The hatred that was so common in the Middle East had to be dealt with, whether it be Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Syria - it didn’t matter. We had to go over there and do SOMETHING. If not Iraq, than Iran.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:01 pmTis is not an unusual statement for someone who can’t come up with a single mistake he’s made while in office. F*cktard.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:02 pmNortheast Dilemma — Tell that to the people of Iraq — after you sign up to fight.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:03 pmActually, NED, Sudan would have been a much better choice. That could have been win-win. We liberals get what we want — and end to genocide, and you would get what you want — to kill (rather, have others kill) a bunch of Arabs. Also, Sudan sheltered bin Laden which links them closer to 9/11 than Saddam.
After Afghanistan, which made us look even more invincible in the eyes of our enemies, Bush snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. Our enemies smell blood and it’s in Iraq, not in the peace protests. The botched war in Iraq has now convinced all those who hate us that they can win. Nice going there. Of course Bush is already blaming others for this.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:09 pmNED, you simply do not understand that the hatred caused by our wars of terror against — how many countries have we invaded in our history? — is blowing back on us. Obviously, you also don’t know much about 9/11 except what the growing-even-more-irrational George Bush tells you. And, yes, you seem too eager to send others off to die for your ignorance.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:11 pmNED- you simply DO NOT understand the war on terror. You never will. 9/11 was the ultimate crime against Americans aided and abetted by the likes of Dick “Hung like a Whale” Cheney. The hatred that is so common in the Rabid Far Wacko Right has to be dealt with, whether it be Texass, North Carolina, Oklahoma, or Washington DC- it doesn’t matter. We have to go in there and do SOMETHING. If not Washington DC, then Crawford.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:11 pm#6 - that is a valid point. Sudan would have been a good place to go to. I still think Hussein should have been deposed though - 1991 would have been a better time for that, admittedly.
I finally got a realistic alterantive point of view from this site. Sudan wasn’t even discussed - that was a big mistake on our part.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:12 pmHis psychosis is coming out like a bad case of hives. Oh, was it not Bush Sr. who really killed the Delta and Rangers in Somalia? Yes, it was his direct orders who sent our boys to hunt down the warlord. Chickenhawks squawk and peck but don’t hunt.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:12 pm#7 - what don’t I know about 9/11 that I need to? Enlighten me.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:13 pmwhat are you DOING trolling here looking for trouble NeD? The RNC paying you to do so? Why don’t you go play a little pocket pool with your little green footballs. All you really do in here is buff up our disdain and loathing of the Bushevics and their sad-sack ilk…
August 30th, 2005 at 2:18 pmThe trolls are sick with worry. They know that dear leader is going down and rightfully dragging the GOP down with him. We should keep them warm and quit until the crying subsides.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:25 pmOnly one month till the impeachment march on the W.H.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:29 pmFu#king beautiful.
“We had to go over there and do SOMETHING.”
Well, we did, and that SOMETHING was a military operation so poorly conceived and ineptly planned that a disparate and lightly armed militia still poses a deadly threat to the most advanced military machine in the world.
And now Dubya wants to blame someone else for the failings of his administration - actually he’s just covering for Cheney and the Neocons, but that’s about as much as there is to Chimpy’s job.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:30 pmOn who’s watch did 9/11 happen? I can’t seem to remember who was President on 9/11…
Also, from what I recall George H.W. Bush was head of the CIA during some of the years there were terrorist attacks on U.S. interests.
I guess it was necessary to weed out all those facts to make this hypocritical statement.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:30 pmNeD, you’re right: “9/11 was the ultimate crime against America”.
That’s why it’s shameful that Bush would slander 3 ex-presidents and Americans during that time for lacking the “courage and character”
In fact it’s BUSH that lacked the courage and character to stay after Bin Laden and Zawahiri and Mullah Omar… EVEN AFTER the ultimate crime…
August 30th, 2005 at 2:32 pm“7 - what don’t I know about 9/11 that I need to? Enlighten me. ”
Comment by The Northeast Dilemma — August 30, 2005 @ 2:13 pm
It’s more like what you refuse to accept. But the polls reflect your (conservatives) growing irrelevence to current political discourse (as a continued support for Bush’s Folly clearly demonstrates), and your now-discredited empire-building campaign is running out of willing recruits. That you blather on as recruiting continues to lag shows the bankruptcy of your ill-thought positions. Be all you can be, little man; they’ve ” got some star-spangled nails” ready for you coffin, too, boy (to paraphrase Langston Hughes).
August 30th, 2005 at 2:35 pmWrong NED. Sudan was discussed extensively. Kerry wanted to go in and stop the genocide, to stop the Arab terrorists in Sudan. He made that point in the debates. Amnesty International and plenty of other liberal groups pleaded, begged Bush to do something. Bush did nothing.
You ridiculed Kerry and praised Bush. Now you admit you were wrong? Or will you simply pretend that Sudan was not discussed?
August 30th, 2005 at 2:37 pm“irrelevence to current political discourse”
Sure - with the Senate, House, the White House and the Supreme Court, conservatives are irrelevant. It only gets worse from here.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:38 pmOh, come on, you guys. NED actually concedes one of your points, as well as complimenting the level of discourse, and you guys call him “Troll” and try to chase him off the site.
This is someone who may actually listen to what people here have to say. And this is your chance to calmly, kindly, and rationally help change someone’s mind.
And for the record, why didn’t we go after Saudi Arabia? That’s where 15 of the 19 terrorists were from. Yeah, I know they own most of our country, but still. Makes a lot more sense than Iraq.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:38 pmHow does it feel, NED, letting the most hateful ideologues in the mideast know that a lightly armed militia can stop our army in its tracks?
That’s Bush’s accomplishment in Iraq.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:39 pm#3 you are using the “kick the dog” method — after 9/11, the public wanted to kick somebody — with careful guidance from BushCo., we turned around and kicked Afghanistan and Iraq. “Terra” is not a country, terrorism is an ideology. As the 9/11 alleged terrorists came mainly from Saudi Arabia and Egypt, logically we should have attacked those countries. However, even that makes no sense. It would be like attacking Oklahoma because McVeigh lived there.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:39 pm#18 - then why did Kerry vote for the war?
August 30th, 2005 at 2:39 pmOn whose watch did 9/11 happen indeed.
Dumbya’s, who went from a month’s vacation in Texas to dallying in elementary schools in Florida, because NONE OF THE “GROWN UPS” around the freak wanted him anywhere near the White House running the country, anyway!
And now he’s french-kissing Saudi princes despite the fact that the hijackers were all Saudis. Wrap your “mind” around that, NED the tool.
See you all in D.C. for the IMPEACHMENT SIT IN.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:40 pmGo to the link below and click on the video dated 8/28/05. It’s a speech worth watching, if I may say so myself.
http://www.c-span.org/ Search/ basic.asp?BasicQueryText=feingold&SortBy=date
August 30th, 2005 at 2:42 pmOur policy regarding Saudi Arabia should have been to give our law enforcement, CIA, and anyone else fighting the WOT full access to any Saudi citizen, by force if necessary. Putting restrictions on the military for political reasons is not how you fight a war.
Rachel, it’s hardly a concession to claim “It was never discussed.” Most of what we hear out of the guy is ha ha ha losers we won you lost losers ha ha ha.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:42 pmIsn’t it well document that the Bush (43) refused to do a reprisal attack after the Cole attack. It took a while to determined the perpetrators and by the time it was determined, the Bush Administration was in charge. But alas, Tax cuts for the rich were far more important back in early 2001.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:43 pm#23 then why did Bush start the war?
The resolution to use force was not a declaration of war, it was an authorization to disarm Saddam (based on Bush’s cooked intelligence according to the British). Since Bush did not remove Saddam’s WMD, I guess Bush did not abide by the resolution Kerry voted for.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:45 pmWhy does ned try to make all threads about him?
And he’s such a dick about it too. I liked that he attacks Judd right off. Real smart move. Keep it up ne-dementia, we’ll see your ass gone.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:47 pmActually, Clinton did take action following the bombings of our embassies in Kenya and Tanzania with air strikes against al Quaeda in both Aghanistan and Sudan. Also, the CIA conducted two covert operations against bin Laden during Clinton’s administration–both of which ended up being scrapped because of the threat of “collateral damage”. Of course collateral damage (killing of innocent civilians) has never been an issue for the Bushies.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:50 pmNED - Kerry voted for the war because he was a spineless wimp who couldn’t take the heat for telling the truth so he shut up.
Still doesn’t make the war right. Nobody said Kerry was great - he was just the better of two bad choices.
NED - I am not mad at you for your opinions, but they *are* uninformed, and that makes me (and alot of people mad). Endeavour to get all the information that you can. I apologize for anyone being rude to you, that sort of thing is not productive. Now if only the other side could be civil, we might just get somewhere… I just wish that more people would follow the Other Golden Rule: Better to keep your mouth shut, and let people *think* you’re a fool, then to open speak and remove all doubt.
NED - When knowledge fills your mind, your soul will speak up and give it’s two cents. You might be surprised what it will tell you.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:52 pm#16 - don’t forget as well that when the Lebanon sh*t was going down in the 80s, Osama was working with the CIA, and in the full knowledge of Cheney, Perle and co who were in the DoD at the time. And of course Saddam was our buddy, hey Rummy!
I guess the one thing Chimpy’s latest brainfart shows is the idea that there is some co-ordinated, centralized and identifiable terror network is bucking faloney. But don’t say that too loudly… Murkins might stop being afraid and God forbid that happens.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:52 pmcynical ex-hippie,
I may be showing my ignorance here, but I don’t remember hearing about a Sudan - bin Laden connection after 9/11. Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Saudi Arabia, yes. Perhaps it was discussed and I missed it; perhaps NED did as well?
I do remember very clearly Kerry talking about Darfur in the 2004 debates, but not prior to that.
I’ve only been a hard-core political junkie for a year or so, so it’s entirely possible that I missed the earlier story about the Sudan.
And since I’ve not posted here before, I wasn’t aware that NED was a frequent visitor. (I know the ones to look out for at americablog, crooksandliars, and kos.) But sometimes it seems that folks are too eager to jump all over every and any wingnut, even if they’re genuinely trying to understand what are almost always very complex issues.
I would hate to think that the leftwing blogosphere would send a moderate scurrying into the welcoming arms of the right.
Just my two cents.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:53 pmthe mendacity of george w. bush is only exceeded by the ability of his supporters to continue defending his dumbass. just wit…hurricane katrina’s devestation will be blamed on clinton, in spite of the draconian cuts bushco. made in army corps. of enigeneering funding indexed to new orleans, and that’s right, hurricane relief…
god help me, i’m definitely not trying to politicize katrina. but pat robertson and jerry fallwell sure will. it’ll be another act of god to punish xyz sinners who PPOSE george bush…in spite of the fact that this is “bush country”…
August 30th, 2005 at 2:54 pm“irrelevence to current political discourseâ€
Sure - with the Senate, House, the White House and the Supreme Court, conservatives are irrelevant. It only gets worse from here.
Comment by The Northeast Dilemma — August 30, 2005 @ 2:38 pm
Hold tight to your memories, for that is all they are. The mid-terms will be where the American people get off the empire express - even major conservatives are jumping off. Buk,Buk, Chicky.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:54 pmIn the 1980s the Reagan administration was advised as to the character of the southern Islamic rebels (as opposed to the northern alliance which had ties to British intelligence). Ollie North chose to ignore those warnings. He thought anal rape and torture of Russian prisoners was nice.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:55 pmBut, Northeast Dilemma, I’m a bit confused. You remark that “hatred that was so common in the Middle East had to be dealt with, whether it be Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Syria - it didn’t matter. We had to go over there and do SOMETHING.”
You mean the U.S.? What authority do we have to do something? Last time I checked, violations were commited against International Law, not U.S. law. Hatred and terrorism have existed forever. The difference between what we had in the 1800’s and today is, back then, the terror was aimed at a temporal benefit or ideal (e.g. change of government, redistribution of wealth) whereas Islamic fundamentalism is geared towards other-worldly benefits (e.g. entrance to Heaven). How do you combat that? How do you win? With guns, or with education? Converesely, if you pick guns when you should have picked education, what will be the fallout?
August 30th, 2005 at 2:55 pm“We had to go over there and do SOMETHING. If not Iraq, than Iran.” is the current policy. And on it’s face it is poor policy, and it has taken on numerous guises.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:55 pmIt worked for the scared people early on, including myself. It is still working on NED.
It’s okay NED, when I was younger I used to shake in my shoes that we’d be nuked by Soviets.
Ned,
A few points:
Kerry voted for War as last resort
We’ve lost credibility everwhere
Bush had his eyes on Iraq since he was Gov. TX
Iran, Saudi Arabia were/are greater threats than Iraq
Iraq had no link to Terrorsim but has in fact become a breeding ground, not to mention the motivation of other would be terrorist world-wide
The much lauded, bold neo-con agenda in Iraq has now created a most unstable Iraq, headed to civil war or a country ruled by the Koran and in bed with Iran.
Now, tell me how Bush has improved things since 9-11?
August 30th, 2005 at 2:57 pmBush said: “They concluded that free societies lacked the courage and character to defend themselves against a determined enemy…”
I disagree with this statement. I believe they felt insignificant because they were not getting a rise out of anyone. That it was merely the cost of oil to have afew attacks from timt to time.
Bush already knows we can’t defeat the culture of suicide bombers and Islamic terror. Yet he keeps going to the “fight terror” well. We’ll see how far it gets him in the history books.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:03 pmSen. Kerry voted to give Bush, as president, the authority to go to war, all other paths exhausted. Now, granted, this was unconstitutional, in that Congress simply can’t give away its own powers. The Dems who voted to do so were morons, IMO.
HOWEVER—Kerry et al.voted the way they did because THEY BELIEVED BUSH’S LIES.
GET THAT?? BUSH LIED to CONGRESS and through his proxies to the U.N.
But I DO like Bush’s reminding the U.S. that 241 Marines died on Reagan’s watch, as he, another one never to see combat, ignored the lesson of Pearl Harbor: don’t put all your military in one easy-target spot.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:09 pm#20
“This is someone [NED] who may actually listen to what people here have to say. And this is your chance to calmly, kindly, and rationally help change someone’s mind.”
You must be new here. NED can’t be taught shit. He is a zombie piece of crap.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:09 pm#23
“#18 - then why did Kerry vote for the war?”
Because he was lied to, just like the rest of Congress.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:10 pmNED is not moderate. He’s a scared punk with an inadequate education and poor upbringing.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:12 pmSo who exactly is dumbya impressing with this new pitch anyhow?
I have to say, I don’t understand where the Einsteins in his administration are going with this.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:12 pmWhat a Dick Most of the perps of those terrorist attacks have been rounded up and sit in prison. It was Republicans that complained when Clinton launched strikes against bin Laden after the embassy bombings. Sheesh.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:15 pmJudd - you simply DO NOT understand the war on terror. You never will. 9/11 was the ultimate crime against America. The hatred that was so common in the Middle East had to be dealt with, whether it be Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Syria - it didn’t matter. We had to go over there and do SOMETHING. If not Iraq, than Iran.
Comment by The Northeast Dilemma
Huh?
The hatred that was so common in the Middle East had to be dealt with, whether it be Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Syria - it didn’t matter. We had to go over there and do SOMETHING. If not Iraq, than Iran.
Chickenhawk with his head cut off.
Almost as bad as a little boots buckaroo going, “Look Daddy! I can pretzeldent better than you!”
Who’s going to pay for this mess? We are. Who’s going to have to clean it up? We are. What are we going to do with the fvcktards who bungled it? Shoot them, I hope, so they don’t breed more.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:17 pmIf my memory serves me correctly, the first foreign-sponsored terrorist attack on American soil (since Pearl Harbor) occurred at the World Trade Center nine WEEKS into Clinton’s first term. By 1996, the engineers of that attack were caught, tried and sentenced to prison- where they still reside.
In the years after that, the Clinton Administration thwarted at least three more major attacks in America, the last being the Millenium Plot. And all of this without killing more than a handful of human beings.
Four YEARS after 9/11, however, the architects of that attack still remain at large; many tens of thousands of humans are dead and crippled; Iraq has been been turned from the most progressive and secular Arab state into another Iran; and Halliburton and Exxon are making record-setting profits (while the poverty rate in America has risen a fourth year in a row).
Yep, NED
August 30th, 2005 at 3:17 pmIf my memory serves me correctly - when the Marine barracks in Beruit (during Reagan)were bombed both Cheney and Rumsfeld were part of the team that decided not to respond to the terrorists.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:18 pmOkay, okay, sometimes it’s hard to keep up with the rapidfire posts. I saw his blog. So NED’s a troll. And, it seems, an active one at that. Sometimes it’s hard to separate trolls from the genuinely ignorant and confused — who may in fact welcome the light.
I haven’t met any personally (much less seen evidence of them on blogs), but I keep hoping.
With Bush’s approval ratings where they are, this would be an excellent time to try to be nice to those wingnuts when we’re explaining how completely they were screwed by their fearless leader. Because now, they may actually listen.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:18 pm[…] Leave it to President Bush to blame Carter, Reagan, and Clinton for 9/11 and other acts of terrorism against the United States and our interests. Whoever is writing these speeches is doing a terrible, terrible hack job. During his first term, a lot of his speeches weren’t necessarily hack jobs, they were just full of good-sounding lies. Now its just illogical bullshit and that ellicits a terribly dramatic reaction–at least to those who fall for it. For people like me, it only infuriates me and makes me want to vomit. […]
August 30th, 2005 at 3:19 pmI’m assuming this speech was in the context of Japan/WWII. Bush gets his power hard-on and bows his chest out and accidentally improvises from time to time in front of military types.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:19 pmI’m a moderate. I want to kill all radical morons, at home and abroad.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:19 pmBush’s mind also on vacation
Think Progress » Bush Blames Carter, Reagan, Clinton for 9/11
August 30th, 2005 at 3:20 pmBush Blames Carter, Reagan, Clinton for 9/11
As his poll numbers sink, Bush is getting desperate. From his address today in San Diego:
They looked at our response after the hostage cris…
Nice post, Punky.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:21 pm#46 - why did Kerry say that Hussein, in fact, had WMD. He said it before and after Bush became President. Could it be because Hussein did have them.
It’s not unAMerican to oppose the war. it’s unAmerican to call the President a liar before the world when the man you voted for said the same thing. Like John Edwards always said, you people are unAmerican.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:21 pmThe ‘Right’ compulsion is neither a philosopy or ideology. Rather Radical Rightwing Idiotology; convoluted paroxysmal convulsions. Onset includes; stuttering phrase 9/11, 9/11, Iraq, Iraq repeated in sequence, next gasping “Clinton’s fault, Monica Lewinsky, sex, liar, liar,” onto Iraqis WMD’s WMD’s, Mission accomplished, bring it on…,forward to Insurgency, back to Clinton’s fault, Haliburton - Cheney, Clinton’s fault, Hurricane Katrina Clinton’s fault. Recommended prescription relaxing vacation in Baghdad or Kirkuk via volunteer military ‘be all that you can be’ or dirt biking in Crawford Texas.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:23 pm#26 - cynical ex-hippie - “Our policy regarding Saudi Arabia should have been to give our law enforcement, CIA, and anyone else fighting the WOT full access to any Saudi citizen, by force if necessary.”
In the United States? Without probable cause? Interesting view from an ex-hippie…
August 30th, 2005 at 3:24 pmYou’re attempting a nice and inadequate recovery, NED.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:25 pmKerry’s a clown and a poor campaigner.
re: #20
August 30th, 2005 at 3:26 pmI agree with Rachael that instead of beating up on someone who comes onto the site, we should instead hear what they have to say. At the very least, it will help us ALL communicate our differences a little better. There is enough blame to go around that parties and administrations don’t make all that much difference at this point; what we need to be doing is figuring out what we can do to FIX this mess!
Punky: you summed it up nicely.
NED: It’s not unAmerican to call the President a liar when you have proof that he’s lied repeatedly.
It is unAmerican to vilify Kerry for believing that he could trust what a sitting President said.
Although it is hard to believe that anyone was able to swallow this nonsense, either before or after Downing Streeet and PlameGate.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:28 pmWhy do we waste our time with people like NED? They are not open to new ideas or willing to LEARN.
Let’s discuss the CORE SUBJECT (in the case of this post, BUSH trying to blame everybody but himself for 9/11) in each post and ignore the trolls and even the “moderates” (like Rachel).
There are some subjects, that there is NO middle on. Genocide — no middle. Lying to the American people to get what you want — no middle. Ignoring massive numbers of warnings about impending disaster, and then trying to subvert investigations of same that would show your incompetence — no middle.
At some point, you are either a clear-thinking American (Republican or Democrat, conservative or liberal) who does not accept that this administration and the Republicans in congress who support it have ANY standing, or you still believe the lies.
IF we still have any vestige of an honest vote-counting system in the country, then the Republican party will be DECIMATED in the mid-term elections in a manner that will exceed the historical levels.
IF NOT, then hopefully there will be exit polls and parallel elections (see San Diego Mayor’s race) and if the results don’t jibe, people will realize that it is their very, very last chance to stop the establishment of a fascist state in place of our democratic republic, and they will go to the streets and “do an Uzbekistan” until the votes are counted honestly and irregularities investigated and corrected.
September 24 to 26 in Washington is the first step.
November 8, 2006 is the end of the beginning and the beginning of the end of this totally corrupt administration of thieves.
To reclaim our place in the civil society of the world, we will need to withdraw from Iraq and leave it to an international peacekeeping force to try and prevent a three-way civil war. We will need to impeach, try, and convict the war criminals we have in our administration and then turn them over to the world court for trial. We will have to abandon (at massive expense) the military bases we are building in Iraq and show signs that we will be closing our bases in Saudi Arabia. And, of course, we will need to wean ourselves of the tit of oil so that we can weather the (inevitable, historic, and never-ending) crisis that will undoubtedly overcome the Middle East. And somehow, in the midst of all that, we have to recover our national economy (from the biggest surplus in history to the biggest deficit in one Bush) and re-arrange our priorities for education, human services, and scientific research.
Hell, that is going to take one HECK of a strong SEQUENCE of leaders over 8, 12, or even 16 years.
Any ideas? Personally, I can’t see Hillary, Biden, or even Dean (and definitely not Kerry, or McCaine) handling that task.
Charlie L
August 30th, 2005 at 3:28 pmPortland, OR
CLL2001@gmail.com
I think Cynical was alluding to the fact that our attackers were Bush’s friends.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:28 pmThe war in about China, not Iraq. If we didnt’ get into Iraq, Sadam could have made the bed w/China. And we, or any other Western civilization cannot have China be running Iraq. To bad the Prez couldn’t be honest about the war, but with his kind of mentality what would you have expected.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:29 pmCJI
I cannot believe Bush made such a stupid remark. I doubt he said it.
Every participate in all terrorist attacks in USA OR abroad during Clinton 8 years WERE CAPTURED AND PROSECUTED.
Clinton had a massive increase in Anti-Terrorism funding and manpower.
clarence swinney-political historian-burlington nc cwswinney@netzero.net
August 30th, 2005 at 3:30 pmOnce again, Judd gets it wrong.
President Bushh didn’t “blame” anyone. He merely pointed out, quite correctly, that our terrorist enemies drew an incorrect inference of American weakness from the limited nature of America’s responses to several prior terrorist attacks.
Fortunately, President Bush learned from the mistakes of the past (regardless of who made them), and by now he has proven that inference to be totally false. This is one of many reasons why we must stay the course in Iraq. John McCain makes another important part of this argument in the Washington Times, explaining why, Chuck Hagel to the contrary notwithstanding, Iraq is NOT Vietnam.
Judd, your posts are frequently innaccurate, and sometimes downright false. I’ve concluded that you don’t really care about honesty on this site. All you seem to care about is scoring cheap shots and protecting the rear end of John Podesta’s former boss.
I guess being “progressive” means never having to tell the truth.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:30 pmActually NED 9/11 is fairly far down the list in crimes against America. Here are crimes that are above it, (in no particular order)
August 30th, 2005 at 3:34 pm1. The Dubya administration ignoring warning after warning about the growing threat.
2. The Dubya admin. leaving Osama free so they could invade Iraq.
3. The Dubya admin killing tens of thousands of innocent civilians, increasing the hatred for America and increasing the threat of a terrorist attack.
4. The Dubya admin. lying to Congress and the American people to get us into Iraq (see #3)
5. The theft of two Presidential elections and countless Congressional and Senate elections by Diebold etc.
6. The destruction of the American economy by running up massive deficits by giving money to corporations and the ultra-wealthy.
7. The delaying of preparing the US for the imminent threat of peak oil so that there will be massive hardship among the nonwealthy.
8. The destruction of human rights in the US.
9. Building of additional hatred against the US by making torture a common occurrence in violation of international law.
10. The delay of US response to global warming.
11. Encouraging and supporting the outsourcing of good American jobs.
12. — infinity fill in your favorites.
Don’t ignore Rachel, but the rest is good, Charlie L.
It annoys me when people try to cast anybody opposed to this clusterfvck as being soft on anything, or whatever stupid crap they try to pull. I supported the Afghan op, and even Iraq until I found out what we all know now. After we take out radical fundies over there, I’m looking to take them out here. Religion and race got nothing to do with it.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:34 pm#70
August 30th, 2005 at 3:35 pmI agree that we’d all feel alittle better if Bush had simply said: “We need the oil. We need another outpost alongside Israel.”
We would have accepted that then, for sure.
Today he could be saying “The people were for it then, now we can’t get out. Sorry.”
NED and BSer got nothing to say.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:36 pmI forgot a BIG one!
Condoning treason by administration members by promoting them. That is what Dybya meant by “taking appropriate action.”
August 30th, 2005 at 3:36 pm#30- “9/11 was the ultimate crime against America.”
Interesting you call it a “crime” and not an act of war. I’ve been calling it a crime this whole time, committed by criminals, but the Bushniks needed to call it a war to obfuscate the illegality of their pre-planned Iraq invasion.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:36 pm#72
August 30th, 2005 at 3:38 pmMcCain belongs in a mental hospital.
The ReichWingNut Wack-jobs that post here are indeed condoning treason. They fail to realize they have been duped by someone they adore.
Sad, really.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:39 pmso does this include what the republican house/senate led by Newt Gingrich & Ken Starr did to Clinton in their zealot approach to destroy the presidency?
August 30th, 2005 at 3:39 pmIt’s not war. It’s nation building. And this is a treasonous gov’t. Everything they say has to be put in that context. Good job, Judd.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:40 pmHello All!
I wanted to comment edgewise here. I am curious about the connection between the White House and 9/11.
We can safely punch a lot of holes into the “official” story (much like what was done with the Warren Commission report on the Kennedy assisination.) That book has more holes than Swiss cheese.
Can anyone give some credible proof (to take to the media and/or courts and/or Impeachment hearings) that Bush and Co were behind (or at least complicit) in the 9/11 terrorist attacks?
Up until now, most progressives can only hint at it. But, I would like to have the ENTIRE BLOGOSPHERE work together to obtain irrefutable proof that the neocons are behind 9/11.
And if the media refuses to shine the spotlight on it, we will take it to court.
Anyone up to the challenge?
August 30th, 2005 at 3:40 pmRE#3 NED
To understand 9/11 read David Ray Griffins 2 recent books.
Yes 9/11 was a crime, probably aided, abetted or even committed by Bush/Cheney themselves.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:41 pmBut Blue State Red, terrorists did not draw an incorrect inference when they concluded that America’s response to terrorism has been weak over the years because it HAS been weak. This is because, unfortunately, it is very difficult to defend against terrorism and the chance that any one nation’s response to it will be weak is, just as unfortunately, fairly high. But that doesn’t mean that a nation should then indiscriminately attack nations that are merely a very small threat to us especially when the least of those possible threats is terrorism. The place where Bush was in error was when he implied that Carter, Reagan and Clinton did not act as strongly as he has against terrorism. In fact, they acted in stronger fashions and it is Bush who has shown the most weakness in this sphere.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:41 pmClinton did a lot to combat Al Qaeda, but may have some culpability because of the Lewinsky affair, which probably detracted sufficiently from Gore to allow Bush to steal the election. Bush bears ultimate responsibility for not taking terrorism seriously before 9/11.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:43 pmCharlie L:
I had to laugh when I saw your post — I’ve never heard myself described as a “moderate”. And if I may say so, your post smacks of the “You’re either with us, or you’re against us” style of rhetoric.
Trolls are everywhere. You can either ignore them, or rebut them with actual facts. But to respond with ad hominem attacks only fuels the fire, and brings us down to their level.
Can’t we agree to leave that kind of vitriol to the freepers?
August 30th, 2005 at 3:44 pmOy! I don’t think he’s blaming anyone. He’s simply stating that responses in the past were little to none. Is that wrong? Show me if it is. Also, has everyone forgotten that the planning for the 9/11 attacks started more than a year before, when Clinton was in office? I’m not blaming Clinton, just our preparedness in general. Many attacks in history, Perl Harbor comes to mind, were because a nation at peace was simply not expecting aggression. Get a clue!
August 30th, 2005 at 3:44 pm#83
August 30th, 2005 at 3:44 pmI personally think we were attacked on 911 SOLEY because of Bush. I believe it was a strategic move squarely attached to the Bush name.
An addendum to #71 by clarence
Clinton also STOPPED the millenium terrorist attacks, unlike the Bushies and 9/11!
August 30th, 2005 at 3:44 pmdockboy
The Clinton administration passed along info about alQuaida and the Bushies ignored it!
August 30th, 2005 at 3:45 pm#89
August 30th, 2005 at 3:46 pmSM is correct.
“It appears that statement is inoperative.”
One need only look back on those agonizing 9 minutes that President GWB sat as news of the WTC attacks were whispered in his ear to know what that term would eventually mean to its fullest extent.
Lincoln said it best “you cannot fool all the people all the time.”
August 30th, 2005 at 3:46 pmNED
How the hell could you be an uber-right-wing d*ickcheese and like Pearl Jam music? Don’t you know Eddie, Stone, and the rest of those liberal Washingtonians hate Dubya and his war machine? You’re a f*ucking walking contradiction in that regard.
Fight fascism….vote DEMOCRAT!
August 30th, 2005 at 3:47 pmBush’s comments don’t make sense when put into perspective. Bin Laden’s Speach about ‘a foreign prince in arab land’ in which he told his people to kill americans was in response to American troops put into Riyadh. It was the establishment of that base that really set him off. After 9/11 Bush simply removed those troops. So what Bush has really said here is that he cow tows to Bin Laden and other terrorists and gives them what they want, while using it as an excuse to attack and secure oil producing countries.
In other word’s if we were to run Bush’s comments through the ‘Bush De-Fib-ulator’ it would sound more like this. “Yes Bin Laden Your wish is my command”
And that is about right considering that Bin Laden wanted the removal of Saddam and the establishment of an Ilsamic government which is now in place.
Bin Laden 2 : Bush 0
Let’s Impeach this TRAITOR now!
August 30th, 2005 at 3:47 pmDid he mention that the world trade bombers under Clinton are in jail?
August 30th, 2005 at 3:48 pmdoackboy
Also, if you read up on history, Pearl Harbor was NOT a surprise. FDR provoked it and knew it was coming!
August 30th, 2005 at 3:48 pmNeD, you reminded me of a comment by Bill Maher who said “…one of the reasons that they hate us is because we don’t know why they hate us.” In other words, America’s policies towards other nations for a very long time has been “what can we do that’ll appear fair, just, friendly, and humane but in the end secure the very best outcome solely for the U.S. or it’s allies (whom we keep for our own benefit) while increasing our power and influence in the region to, again, turn things our way?” while being almost completely oblivious to the possible outcomes and consquences that such policies have on the people involved. America used to be “the Shining City on the Hill”, a beacon for all who looked for freedom and justice; but it has sold that magnificent ideal for untrammeled power, avarice, and rank corporatism. They hate the U.S. because the American government and various U.S. corporations double-deal these nations constantly, giving huge kickbacks to corrupt government officials, propping up sadistic dictators with weapons so the U.S. can exert it’s power unchallenged in any given region.
One thing I think you haven’t considered is that a very great many people in the world still look up to America as a vision of genuine freedom and liberty, but they now see a very real and very serious disconnect between America’s ideals and words and the policies of the American government; and this is nothing new or unique to the Bush administration, it’s being going on for a very long time — as far back as American corporations began gathering more and more political power unto themselves and exerting it through U.S. foreign policy.
A great many people have gotten fed up with America’s arrogant, me-first, “U.S.A. is Number 1″ attitude, and they’ve decided to take that frustration and hatred out on American civilians and military personnel by attacking them.
I don’t condone in the least what happened on 9/11 or during any attack on innocent people anywhere, but we tend to dehumanize our enemies out of fear or rage and forget they may just have legitimate reasons for opposing us, and bombing the hell out of them for retribution’s sake isn’t the answer because it just feeds and endless cycle of violence. If, for example, the Bush cabal decides to attack Iran’s nuclear program with so-called “mini-nukes” all bets will be off; it will become a virtual certainty that some terrorist group somewhere, either Islamic extremist or another group with sympathy for the terrorist position or Iran. or abject hatred for the U.S. after launching such an attack, will detonate a nuclear weapon inside an American city within two to five years. So then what? Nuking Mecca en masse? Would the terrorists retaliate with a particularly virulent strain of smallpox? Where does it end, NeD? With all of humanity dead? At some point someone has to say “stop”.
I don’t hate the U.S. NeD, I still admire the States for the principles it was based on, and for the vision of Freedom and democracy it once offered the world, and I feel no ill-will towards the American people, who are as wonderful (or awful) as any anywhere. But as an outsider I can tell you that the U.S. has lost it’s way and it has become corrupted with corporate greed and a creeping fascism, especially since Bush and his cronies slimed their way into office. And I think you’d find that most people simply want America to live up to it’s promise rather than be brought to it’s knees.
The “ultimate crime” against America wasn’t 9/11; it’s been the betrayal of American ideals, justice, and the Constitution by a dangerous, fanatical, delusional group of neocon men and women who will use any and all means necessary to create an America that despises the poor, tramples on hard-won freedoms like free speech, a free press, and free elections, tries to turn back the clock on women’s, worker’s, and minority rights, launches unprovoked attacks against lesser nations in order to rape those lands of their resources to benefit an already too-wealthy and too-powerful few while hypocritically declaring it was done for freedom’s sake, and allows religious fanatics to begin to dictate national policy in order to secure greater control over the populace at the behest of the Oval Office. That’s a far worse crime against America than any group of terrorists could ever hope to perpetrate because in doing so more than some buildings and some 3,000 lives are destroyed; an entire nation, it’s people, and it’s legacy to the world will be lost.
Neil H.
Canada
August 30th, 2005 at 3:49 pmmuddMike:
Any of those offenses would be impeachable — if they were committed by a Democrat.
KillCon:
August 30th, 2005 at 3:49 pmThanks for the kind words.
#60: Of course Saddam had WMD –> because we sold them to him! Why isn’t this as much of an issue with ya’ll as it is with me!?!? Rumsfeld was shaking his hand while he was gassing Iranian soldiers with our technology.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:50 pmmuddmike has good point. FDR was Asia imperialist.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:50 pmRichard Clark, Paul O’neil and even that large caliber laser scope loving bastard Pat Robertson have all said that Bush told them he wanted to go to war in IRAQ before 911. The fact that he had Bolton demote , fire or marginalize the inspectors who reported no WMD’s is evidence enough that it was not the truth they were looking for. IRAQ HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH 911. Bush is called a liar because he LIES every day as POLICY. “UnAmerican” is to allow this traitor to run our Country into the shitter and not call him the liar that he is.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:51 pmTook him four years to come up with this excuse. Just think, four years after 1941, the war was over.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:51 pm#89: how can anyone have been prepared for the 911 attacks. even Condi said it was “inconceivable.” yes, certainly a lack of imagination, but, who knew that 3 years from now the martians would drop by to eradicate us. damn president trump! he should have known!
August 30th, 2005 at 3:52 pmWell-said, Neil H! (CLAPPING)
I lived in Winnipeg for three years, about 25 years ago. I’m thinking it’s time to move back.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:53 pmWell you know how it is when your six week vacation gets interupted and then cut two days short. You get kinda loopy.
For all of the complaints that Bush and the entire right make about the French, Bush really likes their vacation laws, FOR HIMSELF!!
August 30th, 2005 at 3:54 pmJudd - you simply DO NOT understand the war on terror. You never will. 9/11 was the ultimate crime against America. The hatred that was so common in the Middle East had to be dealt with, whether it be Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Syria - it didn’t matter. We had to go over there and do SOMETHING. If not Iraq, than Iran.
Comment by The Northeast Dilemma
Absolutely, ND! And in keeping with that theme, I went and “did something”, myself.
I shot my dog.
He was an Afghan.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:55 pm9/11 was manufactured terrorism by americans and israelis. Be under no delusions here. People who still buy into this 19 saudi hijackers bs is insane. Before Bush there was a world trade center. Now there is no WTC. Bush destroyed the WTC…it happened on his watch not carter’s.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:55 pmThere were several memos circulating that there was a plan to use airplanes as bombs during the summer of ‘01. Condi was either negligent in her job as Security Advisor, or she was LYING!. Which is it?
August 30th, 2005 at 3:55 pmWe in Canada are still reeling over the “not guilty” verdicts earlier this year in what was until the 9/11 horro the worst single post-war act of terror ever committed: the Air India bombings in 1985. The judge ruled there was a conspiracy, but that the Mounties went after the wrong defendants. We’re beginning to wonder if there will ever be justice in that case.
I had this in mind when I read Bush’s ridiculous comments; in particular the fact that two lessons NOT learned from Air India resulted in two subsequent acts against the West: Pan Am 103, and 9/11. In the former case, baggage checked but passenger doesn’t show up. In the latter, increased “chatter” but not enough translators at spy agencies.
I decided to run the engine you referred to. How interesting that during Bush 41’s term as Prez, America was hit by acts of terror 16 times. From the day after 9/11 to today, there have been 58 terrorist attacks on American soil under Bush 43’s watch. Fifty-eight.
At least under his father’s watch, most of those who committed acts of terror got caught and did hard time. According to the Justice Department’s own numbers last year, the average sentence for “terrorists” under Dubya was a mere fourteen days, and most of them got busted for immigration irregularities.
Now, as other posters have pointed out, he’s put nearly all his eggs in one country. Will it take another Beirut style attack for the world to finally wake up and realize things have only gotten worse, not better, since 9/11? Yes, we must find OBL and finish him off by any means necessary. Taking a side-trip to Baghdad is not helping in any way in that effort.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:57 pmDon’t blame Condi she only wanted to be the NFL Commissioner anyway. Go Pats!
August 30th, 2005 at 3:57 pmmuddmike:
She was lying. I watched the entire three-hour hearing before the 9/11 commission, and couldn’t believe the garbage she was spewing.
Not only did she lie, she also filibustered every member of the commission. Who, sadly, did not call her on it more than a few times.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:58 pm“And for the record, why didn’t we go after Saudi Arabia? That’s where 15 of the 19 terrorists were from. Yeah, I know they own most of our country, but still. Makes a lot more sense than Iraq.
Comment by Rachel — August 30, 2005 @ 2:38 pm”
Actually the Bush Admin did go after Saudi Arabia…. TO protect them from the victims of 9/11. It was baker Bott that decided it was best to legally defend the saudis from the victims families. Form waht I hear Bush even let them use white house offices to do it.
Republicans are TRAITORS and we all need to realize this and Impeach this growing Cancer.
I hope you read this Ned. Keep it in mind next time you try to politicize 9/11
August 30th, 2005 at 3:58 pmGreat post ThinkingManNeil. I agree 100%. Unfortunately, it’s too long and involves too much for NED to just mull over. He thinks progressives or Democrats are crap so words from a Canadian! Please. NED will just pull one of his 10 responses and change a word or two.
Well thought out Neil. Thanks.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:59 pmaddendum to #103.
Dubya’s neocon trainers planned to invade Iraq, Iran, Syria … in 1998.WHen they get the fool to use nukes on Iran, we can kiss off the US ever recovering. The least response will be a worldwide boycott leading to the complete collapse of the economy.
see: http://www.newamericancentury.org/ RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf
August 30th, 2005 at 3:59 pmTo Northeast Dilemma…
As someone who’s been living in NYC for nearly 10 years now, I’ll agree with you on one point (and one only) — something had to be done in response to WTC. However, there’s a difference between thoughtful and indiscriminate response — and the option GWB chose, attacking those who were not directly involved, is an example of the latter. You say that hatred for the US is common in the Middle East — what on earth makes you think that attacking Iraq and/or Iran will lessen that instead of exacerbating it? Answer me this question if you can — where is Osama bin Laden, and why isn’t he in custody????
And while we’re on the subject…why is it that all you neocons refer to this as the “War On Terror”? Are you suggesting that we conquer fear itself? Gee, good luck with that…
August 30th, 2005 at 4:00 pm“Wanted Dead Or Alive!” Remember that nugget from 2001? Bush and Bon Jovi sure rocked with that one
So, where is he tough guy?
He killed my friend, not Saddam.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:05 pm#88
The problem I see with this site is that most of the “non-troll” as you like to call us, think that you are superior to us. Can’t you see that is your problem. You consider yourself so elite that you can’t even understand why you are losing elections. So you resort to conspiracy theories and blame Bush and the GOP for stealing elections. If I were in your shoes, I would try to understand why the your message is not hitting home with the majority in America. If liberals continue to run the democratic party, they will run it right into the ground.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:06 pm“why is it that all you neocons refer to this as the “War On Terrorâ€?”– Bluestocking — August 30, 2005 @ 4:00 pm
I thought they were refering to it as the Global struggle against violent Extremeists. ‘GSAVE’
and Bush is no longer a War Time President but a STRUGGLE TIME PRESIDENT as evidenced by his sinking polls
Republicans are TRAITORS Impeach Bush Now
August 30th, 2005 at 4:06 pmAll I can say from where I stand here in Eire is this: wake up and smell the coffins!
August 30th, 2005 at 4:07 pmNeil H., Canada - Well said. Very well said.
Your comments mirror everything I hear from my overseas business partners.
What’s sad is that the ReichWingNut Wack-jobs blabber on as if they know it all and will remain in power forever. In fact, they know nothing and have the maturity of a 3 year old.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:10 pm#120 “Red”
Our country is innately liberal. Bush is a fear president.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:10 pmHaving said that, most on this site probably are superior to average folks. That, of course, does not say much for us…
WHY CAN’T WE ALL FIGURE OUT THAT WE’RE NOT CONS OR LIBS, WE’RE FUCKING AMERICANS! ENOUGH WITH THE LABELS…
DO WE NEED ANOTHER MANASSAS?
August 30th, 2005 at 4:10 pmBlueStocking wrote to NED “You say that hatred for the US is common in the Middle East — what on earth makes you think that attacking Iraq and/or Iran will lessen that instead of exacerbating it? Answer me this question if you can — where is Osama bin Laden, and why isn’t he in custody????”
NED never answers question so you are wasting your breath…I mean keyboard.
BlueStocking also wrote “Are you suggesting that we conquer fear itself?” This is what the Christians were trying to do during the Inquisition. Then scientist found out that viruses caused desease and not witches and blew thier plan out of the water.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:11 pm“All I can say from where I stand here in Eire is this: wake up and smell the coffins!” — Outernet — August 30, 2005 @ 4:07 pm
OUCH!!
But hey with Rush limbaugh Losing 40% of his audience and 62% loss for hannity, maybe people are waking up. and those coffins can be saved shows like Rush and hannity. Also with newspapers dropping Ann Coulters column After She Insulted the HEROS of 9/11 by calling New Yorkers Cowards, I think the world is starting to Realise the Conservatives have gone off the deep end.
Silly Republicans Treason is a Crime. Fire Rove Now!!
August 30th, 2005 at 4:13 pmBrian correct: Guess where Rove got his idea to use fear?
“Naturally the common people don’t want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” Hermann Goering
August 30th, 2005 at 4:14 pm“After September the 11th, 2001, we’ve taught the terrorists a very different lesson”–yes, that if they attack us, we will hammer the crap out of an innocent bystander. Sounds like something that might actually encourage terrorism, to me–especially if you could actually “aim” that response at some particular bystander you have in mind.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:14 pmThe Democrats are just as guilty. The cowardly bastards should have opposed the Fourth Reich (because THAT’s what we have in our country right now) from day one, instead they caved in and let the Republican gangsters rape our country just because ALL they care is to be re-elected.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:15 pmRepublicans actively support but openly deny taking part in treasonous acts.
Pat Robertson calls for the murder of a democractically elected leader of Venezuela.
Is this the true state of American christianity? Yikes! No wonder some people of other faiths don’t like us. American christians act out of fear and loathing when they were taught (originally) to act out of love and kindness.
My, what a difference 2,000 years can make.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:19 pm“After September the 11th, 2001, we’ve taught the terrorists a very different lessonâ€â€“yes, that if they attack us, we will hammer the crap out of an innocent bystander. Sounds like something that might actually encourage terrorism, to me–especially if you could actually “aim†that response at some particular bystander you have in mind. — Bob — August 30, 2005 @ 4:14 pm
You forgot to add that Bush Apeased Bin Laden by moving troops out of Riyadh IMMEDIATELY.
The Lesson Bush Taught Terrorists is that if they want something just blow up and building and then Bush will give them what they want.
Bush Is a Traitor. Impeach him now
August 30th, 2005 at 4:19 pmIMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH! yeah i’m pissed.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:21 pmDisillusioned, Democrate Senators are amoung the richest people in America so they too would like a tax cut. Really, the system has been abused by the likes of special interest (read “coorporations”) groups and MOST polititions for the last 40 years. Now we have the added abuse by Christian Fundamentalists.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:21 pmBush is a traitor. Impeach him now!
Hold the lawless in power accountable for their crimes.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:23 pmDisillusioned: You know as well as I know that change takes time in this country. Clearly the Democrats have simply not had the leadership, or, strike that, the big names, to attract voters. Will our next generation help? Obama will help, but he’s only one guy. What we need are more veterans getting involved in politics. Then the blood won’t flow so easily.
And to those who quickly strike down the idea of voter fraud/stealing elections: it’s kind of hard to get to the bottom of it if nobody in the media questions it. Look at what has happened to civilians that question the absurdity that we all live in: Michael Moore (he’s just fat and hates his country) Cindy Sheehan (15 minutes of fame).
It’s as if we need another nation to come in and tell us what to do. Sound familiar?
August 30th, 2005 at 4:26 pm#23 then why did Bush start the war?
I can’t believe that many of you actually believe that Bush conspired to create 9/11. Do you have any idea how crazy this is? First of all, it took years of planning by Bin Laden to pull it off, which I don’t think would be possible given he didn’t take office until January 20th. Second, are you willing to give him that much credit for masterminding the whole operation? I know, you are going to say Cheney did it. Liberals need to wake up to the fact that Bush did not plan 9/11 and that we are at war. Have you forgotten? Stop living in this fantasy world that you have created for yourselves. Please put aside your political differences with the president for a change. Get over the anger from the 2000 election. We have gotten over Nixon.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:26 pm#18 - then why did Kerry vote for the war?
He was lied to.
It’s really that simple. The President of the United States LIED to Congress. The Office of Special Plans filtered intelligence to remove doubts and only promote theories that fit in with the PNAC plan. The White House and the Bush Administration then took that and presented it as the case for war. As the DSM states, the intelligence was FIXED around policy.
The Bush Administration LIED to Congress. No one thought that after Vietnam a President would LIE to Congress to engulf this nation into a war. They were wrong. It didn’t help that the NY Times and Juddith Miller (and the Wash Post) were cheerleading rather than reporting and questioning the rational for war. The Bush Administration lied and no one in the 4th estate held them up to see what was under the rocks. The system failed.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:27 pmJC God of War wrote “Is this the true state of American christianity? Yikes! No wonder some people of other faiths don’t like us. American christians act out of fear and loathing when they were taught (originally) to act out of love and kindness.
My, what a difference 2,000 years can make. ”
Actually, Jesus instructed all christians to burn anyone that didn’t take his dad as GOD. So, nothings changed in 2000 years. Except that everyone has access to a Bible not just the Priests and higher ups. In fact during the early years on the Inquisition if you had a Bible and weren’t a higher up you got burned at the stake.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:27 pmI believe Bush is losing his grip. Not that he ever had a good understanding of history and international relations, but he is a one-trick pony and the pony has a “bum” leg now. He is stumbling, and soon he will have to be put out to pasture. He desperately grasps for straws to save himself as he slips ever justly lower in public opinion. He connects 9/11 to the war in Iraq. He blames his predecessors for his screwups. He is the Eddie Haskell of the day - to use a Beaver Cleaver analogy. The lies, the screw ups, the smart-alecky remarks and the ever present smirk are all catching up to him — if he were anyone else I might feel a bit sorry for him, but he made a huge mess for the nation with his stupid arrogance, and he should be drummed out of office as soon as possible — 2006 may bring a change in Congress, and with that will come a change in the White House.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:29 pm#138 Most of the logistics were done in 2001. Face facts.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:29 pm#127
Where are you getting your info on Rush’s ratings? Also, just when is Air America going to pay back that “loan” they took to get started?
August 30th, 2005 at 4:29 pm#60
You call me unAmerican? At least I ain’t a chicken hawk that won’t join the military. You’re a loser, who needs to go sign up and fight in Iraq. I prefer chicken shit over chicken hawk, because that is what you are.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:32 pmRed, you’re right. There’s no way Bush had a hand in 911. Look at the way he’s train-wrecked ‘nation-building’ in Iraq (a task he said pre-’00 was not what our military was for). He’s incompetent. If he had been in charge of 911 the planes would have headed north and attacked Quebec.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:33 pm#30 thanks for a coherent reply to the incoherent NED.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:34 pm#33 you are kind, Rachel. But NED is not a reasonable person and he usually tries to steer us off topic so he can spew more bile about Democrats in general.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:37 pmActually, Jesus instructed all christians to burn anyone that didn’t take his dad as GOD. So, nothings changed in 2000 years. Except that everyone has access to a Bible not just the Priests and higher ups. In fact during the early years on the Inquisition if you had a Bible and weren’t a higher up you got burned at the stake.
Comment by Aethiest — August 30, 2005 @ 4:27 pm
Wrong Aethiest (if that is how you spell your name) Jesus was long dead before Christians began burning heretics, as a matter of fact they had to remain underground to escape the Roman leaders.
Read the history of the Netherlands for a recap. Church/Political leaders (like King Philip of Spain and the Duke of Alva) ordered the burnings/beheadings/pressings/etc. — not Jesus.
CHRIST! You need to crack a book.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:37 pmOne more thing…
JESUS WAS A JEW!
NOT A CHRISTIAN!!
shows what an Aethiest knows…
August 30th, 2005 at 4:38 pm#120
I see your point - all these posts taken together can seem very superior and smug, and some of us are undoubtedly guilty of that. But, on the other hand, we do kind of feel like we’re making arguments that seem so obviously sensible, and this is compounded by the fact that half of the country seems to deny the sense in them. It’s not elitist to use logic. We’re not trying to prove we’re great, we’re trying to point out what seems, to us at least, to be an obvious misuse (and abuse) of power that helps nothing and hurts everyone. I don’t mean to speak for everyone, of course, but it seems to me that we sound condescending at times because we feel we’re arguing things that, really, should be self-evident. The condescension naturally comes through because, honestly, it’s hard for us to believe that these points aren’t obvious to everyone.
But, let’s try not to insult each other - even the blowhards - calm reasoning (even if only one-sided), is more in keeping with the principles of debate.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:39 pmAll politicians suck. Get the money out of politics. That might help. A hatural disaster washing DC into the ocean would definitely help, if it caught them napping, which wouldn’t be hard, except they are always on vacation. I would welcome a benificent dictator for a few years, and lots of firing squads.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:39 pmNED…I certainly don’t agree with what you say…but I find it appalling how the liberals…people that are supposed to be so compassionate toward the plights of all of america…somehow have a blindspot when it comes to you. As long as either side just insults the other and tells them to go away, they are each always going to be looked at as idiots who are afraid to face the truth. It’s all about debate folks, not raging anger over someone else expressing their anger. I am extremely liberal…and i do not agree with much of anything that bush has done in his presidency. However, NED…if you want a calm…rational debate, and want to discuss it with someone who isn’t going to resort to calling you silly juvenile names….then by all means email me.
d_dacey@hotmail.com.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:40 pm#52, you’re right — and recall that Clinton did NOT blame poppy Bush for the attack that occurred only weeks after he was in office.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:41 pmTHE GREATEST THREAT TO THE SECURITY AND SURVIVAL OF THE UNITED STATES IS THE DEMOCRAT PARTY AND THE LOONY LEFTISTS WHO RUN IT. LIBERALS ARE NOTHING BUT A BUNCH OF PANSIES WHO WOULD RATHER ROLLOVER AND SURRENDER THAN STAND UP AND FIGHT.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:44 pmOh, crap.
I just took these air force goggles off and realized that the world is burning!
Sorry people.
My bad.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:44 pm#137