Administration Refuses To Acknowledge Reality: The National Guard Is Stretched Thin
Administration Refuses To Acknowledge Reality: The National Guard Is Stretched Thin
The AP reports today:
The National Guard is stretched so thin by simultaneous assignments in Iraq and the hurricane-ravaged Gulf Coast that leaders in statehouses and Congress say it is time to reconsider how the force is used. … The head of the National Guard Bureau said Friday the assignment of thousands of Guard troops from Mississippi and Louisiana to Iraq delayed those states’ initial hurricane response by about a day. “Had that brigade been at home and not in Iraq, their expertise and capabilities could have been brought to bear,” said Lt. Gen. Steven Blum, the bureau’s chief.
And the Washington Post reports that civilian and military leaders say the response could have been quicker had National Guard troops from Louisiana and Mississippi been in their home states rather than Iraq:
In Louisiana and Mississippi, civilian and military leaders said the response to the hurricane was delayed by the absence of the Mississippi National Guard’s 155th Infantry Brigade and Louisiana’s 256th Infantry Brigade, each with thousands of troops in Iraq.
But the administration recognizes this obvious problem and is thinking of policy solutions to address it, right? Wrong. Bush administration officials have gone on a public relations offensive over the last week to incredulously claim that our troops aren’t stretched thin. Here’s what Rice and Rumsfeld have said:
TAVIS SMILEY: There are a lot of folk, and I know you’ve heard this, who believe and it’s been everywhere expressed that this sentiment that the money and other resources that we have been spending on Iraq put us in a situation where we didn’t have the resources available quickly enough to move into the Gulf Coast. Do you accept that?
SECRETARY RICE: No, it’s just not true. Frankly, it’s hogwash. And I’ll use that term very, very clearly. There are plenty of resources to deal with this. There are military resources to deal with it. There were National Guard resources to deal with it.
______
KMOX RADIO: Does that mean we’re stretched a little bit thin?
SECRETARY RUMSFELD: No. In fact the implication that we’re stretched thin is an inaccurate one and it ought to be knocked down hard.
So once again, faced with an accountability moment, the Bush administration shucks responsibility and suggests that those who question them just don’t know what they’re talking about.
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that's what I call leadership. I'm sure our troops are proud. time to go wave my flag
September 10th, 2005 at 8:31 pmIt's amazing. These two stoogies have never and would never use such terminology-- it stands out like skyrockets! What programming skills, Karl!
September 10th, 2005 at 8:57 pmDont worry folks, bush and rove have dispatched their private army to New Orleans.
You know the ones they pay about fifteen hundred a week to. The misfits, the special forces guys who flunked out, the psychopaths.
Americablog reporter reports that they are there. Now, the original purpose of this private army, which is on the government payroll through Halliburton, was to replace the forces in Iraq and guard the bushlandia oil interests there.
In NO they are confiscating guns from people. Thats all I hear about now, but it will get worse. These idiots take no shit, no backtalk, no sass from anyone.
Bush and rove are very, very proud of their private army-
September 10th, 2005 at 8:57 pmJust wait, it will get worse. These poor people have no homes, no money, and NOW NO PROTECTION.
I find the stories of reporters being abused and their equipment being destroyed very troubling. Like the government is TRYING TO HIDE SOMETHING.
All this time I thought it would be the gays rounded up first and sent to the camps. Guess they hate poor blacks more than gays. Go figure.
They are already calling the collection places "camps".
who is next? political opponents?
September 10th, 2005 at 9:37 pmYou are free to think as we tell you to think.
September 10th, 2005 at 9:38 pmWhy do the interviewers even bother? It would be much more effective if all the respectable news media refused to interview the bushies. If forced to interview them it should be a hostile interview and put them on the defensive. Soon all of the bushies would have foot-in-mouth disease or a rectal-cranial insertation-removal syndrome.
Don't forget to cast your vote at my site.
September 10th, 2005 at 11:00 pmPrivate army? Is this the same "security" outfit operating in Iraq? Subcontracting through Halliburton? Private sniper teams and whatnot?
Reminds me of an old political joke.
Kennedy and Johnson were sitting in the oval office on their first day when the the Pope of Rome calls to see what they can do about a leaky Vatican roof. Kennedy said, "We'll pay for any repairs you need, Your Holiness." Johnson added, "Just make sure Brown and Root get the contract."
In a way Karl Rove is "fixing" a "leaky roof" so it reminded me of that joke.
Want to see video of a private sniper team, subcontracting through Halliburton, on a rooftop shooting people with a high powered rifle? Go to ifilm.com and click on "war zone" the video is called "mercenary sniper." There's no blood, it shows them shooting, not anyone being shot, but it has a real eeirie Apocalypse Now vibe.
Now, people who support the war, how do they feel when they watch that?
September 10th, 2005 at 11:12 pm"Me thinks thou dost protest too much."
September 10th, 2005 at 11:42 pmRice and Rumsfeld are just too defensive with nothing to back up what they say.
I am sick and tired of the news media talk shows inviting administration people - or agreeing to let them appear on the shows - because it is merely an outlet for them to spin, deny, lie, blow smoke, and defend their indefensible position. The interviewer rarely challenges what the official says; there is a prescribed number of questions to ask, and even when outrageous answers are provided, the next question is asked as planned.
Please join
D.Michael Van De Veer Host OUT OF THE BOX KKCR-FM for a conversation with NOAM CHOMSKY,
Sept22, 12NOON-HST-(3pm PDT-6pm EDT).
We will ask the question,
" Does the Bush Regima acknowledge reality?"
Listen on the World Wide Web http://www.kkcr.org
September 10th, 2005 at 11:50 pmCall-In Toll Free 1-866-275-1112
OK, our military is "stretched thin" because of the Iraqi War. So just to put numbers on it what percent of the military force is actually in Iraq, Kuwaiit and Afganistan?
a) 50%
b) 15%
c) 25%
d) I've got no idea and I don't care, we're stretched thin because I say so
Anyone want to play?
September 11th, 2005 at 12:08 am#10,
September 11th, 2005 at 12:33 amAdd a, b, and c and you'll get close.
I'm off to the sack now; anyone whose thought process exceeds 20 minutes should be enrolled in the no idiot left behind program. GWB, the Dick and Brownie are prime contenders.
September 11th, 2005 at 1:01 amThe people will decide what is and is not "HOGWASH".
September 11th, 2005 at 1:17 amI think they already have.
Try 'em. Hang 'em.
Well
My son caught a 50 yard pass and made a touchdown tonight(NCAA North American Football League)
and
his best friends who joined the Marines out of HS last year have been told they're going to Iraq in January
My son almost joined up with them out of high school last year - he decided not to - he decided not to join when someone in the corps told him he would have to take orders from a sargeant, no matter how short he was. That was too much for my son.
Praise God that my son learned a healthy disrespect for authority.
And to all the right-wingers and supposed progressives who believe there's something good in the IRaq war
September 11th, 2005 at 2:03 amI say - go screw yourselves - and maybe you'll wake the f''k up and get a grip on reality
Blackwater Ops in NO
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0910-07.htm
Trained Killers
"When they told me New Orleans, I said, 'What country is that in?,'" said one of the Blackwater men. He was wearing his company ID around his neck in a carrying case with the phrase "Operation Iraqi Freedom" printed on it. After bragging about how he drives around Iraq in a "State Department issued level 5, explosion proof BMW," he said he was "just trying to get back to Kirkuk (in the north of Iraq) where the real action is."
September 11th, 2005 at 2:13 amIRightI
And all you other puke for guts aholes
live with this - your son dies in Iraq, the army lies to you about the cause of death
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/10/iraq.armydeath.ap.ap/index.html
all you pro-iraq war demons need to look deep deep inside and see if you still have a soul, cause you're in danger of losing it if you don't stand up and start demanding an immediate withdrawal.
there ain't nothing fu'king good about his war, and there's everything wrong about it
September 11th, 2005 at 2:22 amRepublicans are always delusional about war, politics, economics and security matters. They disregard facts, and details in favor of delusion, politics and preconceptions that are always wrong... It's called a psychotic break - and it's a daily occurrence for the right wing..
September 11th, 2005 at 3:18 amThis is just another war for the rich man and the Zionists. I say we save our money don't give that crappy little terrorist state of occupied Palastine (or Isreal if you're some dumb ass jewdeo christian) and spend it on the city of new orleans. Especially since %70 of the soldiers dying are my white brothers and sisters. For gods sake they got women over there what that little pussy George Bush wasn't willing to do in his own day. Bush is a money grubbing coward out to ride the gravy train for as long as he can. And once he declares marshal law, probably a little longer than that. I say "heil the the Iraqi freedom fighters in thier fight against the insurgent/terrorist americans". Hope they free thier country from "our" invasion.
September 11th, 2005 at 4:28 amNothing will change... Nothing.
Jesus told us that men will have to change before nations do. The problem with America is not just our leaders, but the sheep who willingly follow behind.
September 11th, 2005 at 8:33 amUp yours losers....
As the full horror of this sinks in, thousands of desperate columnists are asking if George Bush contributed to the death toll by sending so many national guard units to Iraq.
The answer is almost certainly yes, provided nobody recalls that those same columnists have spent the past two years blaming George Bush for another death toll by not sending enough national guard units to Iraq. Otherwise, people might wonder why they have never previously read a single article advocating large-scale military redeployment during the Caribbean hurricane season.
As the full horror of this sinks in, thousands of desperate columnists are asking if George Bush should not be concerned by accusations of racism against the federal government.
The answer is almost certainly yes, provided nobody remembers that Jesse Jackson once called New York "Hymietown" and everybody thinks Condoleezza Rice went shopping for shoes when the hurricane struck because she cannot stand black people.
Otherwise sensible Americans of all races will be more concerned by trite, cynical and dangerous political opportunism.
As the full horror of that sinks in, this columnist is simply glad that everybody cares.
http://www.sluggerotoole.com/archives/2005/09/ill_wind_may_no.php
September 11th, 2005 at 8:33 amPraise God that my son learned a healthy disrespect for authority.
-comment by a bad father
And my God grant that the young man not follow in the steps of Taliban John and spend twenty years in Leavenworth or turn into a hateful treasonous scumbag like his daddy.
September 11th, 2005 at 8:39 amThe real treason starts today with Feds blaming locals. The clock will tell the tale.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4839666
September 11th, 2005 at 9:02 amOh, I see, 'shock and awe' has transformed to 'shuck and jive.' groovy, man
September 11th, 2005 at 9:18 amThe real treason starts today with Feds blaming locals.
comment by - Brain
As the full horror of this sinks in, thousands of desperate columnists are asking if an official inquiry will shift the blame for poor planning and inadequate flood defences on to the White House. The answer is almost certainly yes, provided nobody admits that emergency planning is largely the responsibility of city and state agencies, and nobody notices that the main levee which broke was the only levee recently modernised with federal funds. Otherwise, an official inquiry will pin most of the blame on the notoriously corrupt and incompetent local governments of New Orleans and Louisiana.
September 11th, 2005 at 9:19 amLet's see:
The Canadian Mounties got to Nawlins 3 days before Bush's government.
3 college students in a rental car got into Nawlins and out with a family 5 days before the Nat'l Guard got in.
Even Oprah and her team of doctors got in before the Federal government a week earlier than than FEMA.
But, let's not forget, the day Hurricane Katrina hit --Monday, Bush's mangina was in Arizona whoring private SS accounts. Tuesday, he was in California whoring his Iraq war and playing the guitar.
George Bush: a failed president who should crawl back to Dogpatch, AKA, Crawford, and live out his days on the ranch as a disgraced leader.
September 11th, 2005 at 9:31 amSorry, I-RIGHT-I.
The fact that I disagree with what sounds like something you cut and pasted from someone else is not important. What is important is that everyday Joes don't know who the local officials are. But everyday Joes know who Bush is, and what his priorities are.
And they know all politicians are corrupt. And they see Bush's jarred countenance EVERY NIGHT on TV. On the corrupt politician-o-meter, the buck does in fact, stop at the top.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4839666
September 11th, 2005 at 9:33 amOn this subject, also historian Howard Zinn:
http://dearkitty.modblog.com/?show=blogview&blog_id=736348
September 11th, 2005 at 10:07 amHere some additional cut and past from that wonderful piece of rhetoric I credited to the author in post #20.
"s the full horror of this sinks in, thousands of desperate columnists are asking if the entire political agenda of George Bush's second term will not still be damaged in some terribly satisfying way.
The answer is almost certainly yes, provided that the entire political agenda of George Bush's second term consists of repealing the 22nd Amendment. Otherwise, with a clear Republican majority in both Houses of Congress, he can carry on doing pretty much whatever he likes.
As the full horror of this sinks in, thousands of desperate columnists are asking if the Republican Party itself will now suffer a setback at the congressional mid-term elections next November.
The answer is almost certainly yes, provided that people outside the disaster zone punish their local representatives for events elsewhere a year previously, both beyond their control and outside their remit, while people inside the disaster zone reward their local representatives for an ongoing calamity they were supposed to prevent. Otherwise, the Democratic Party will suffer a setback at the next congressional election."
This is all pretty simple stuff Brian. The vast majority of the American people, EVEN DEMOCRATS, are not totally stupid or spend all their time combing Marxist web sites looking for the latest Bush=Hitler meme.
The Donks not the Repugs are going to pay the price for this one. As I've said before, the Filthy Left in this country have destroyed the confidence of the American people and ruined the party. Maybe for all time. You are a loose collection of the scum of the American landscape. You are the party of homosexuals, child molesters, animal lovers/people haters, nature worshipers, terrorist appeasers, enemy collaborators, Christian haters and communists. In short, y'all are fucked. Why? Because your leaders are far, far removed from the rest of us.
September 11th, 2005 at 10:39 amDo we NOT remember 9/11 on this site. Typical of the left - pretend it didn't happen.
September 11th, 2005 at 10:41 amRepublican Senator Susan Collins is distancing because she turned a blind eye to Bush appointee Brown.
September 11th, 2005 at 10:44 amBrian -- yo genius, so did Hillary and Joe Lieberman. Nice try partisan.
September 11th, 2005 at 10:57 amI've aleady addressed Clinton and Lieberman. Today is the first time we've had the honor of seeing the lovely Susan Collins on MSM.
I addressed Lieberman FIRST, since that sorry sack of shit is an alleged Democrat.
Mr. Souter, stop disguising your attempts to show your knowledge as reasons for chit-chat.
September 11th, 2005 at 11:04 amI’ve aleady addressed Clinton and Lieberman. Today is the first time we’ve had the honor of seeing the lovely Susan Collins on MSM.
I addressed Lieberman FIRST, since that sorry sack of sh*t is an alleged Democrat.
Mr. Souter, stop disguising your attempts to show your knowledge as reasons for chit-chat.
September 11th, 2005 at 11:05 amALL THE LIES ONE AFTER THE OTHER LIES TO GO TO WAR, LIES ON JOB RESUMES, LIES ON OUTING C.I.A. AGENTS. THE LIST OF LIES ARE ENDLESS. YOU KNOW I BET THIS BUNCH COULD GET AWAY WITH A BJ. OR TWO
September 11th, 2005 at 11:08 amThe bush, cheney, rove private army, called the Blackwater Mercenaries, are funded through Halliburton. Their original intent was to protect the bushlandia oil interests in Iraq as troops were withdran from Iraq.
Cheney is in charge of seeing that enough money is diverted to Holliburton to equip and pay this private army.
The facgt that they are now operating in the US is bad news for everyone, including you deluded rightwingnuts.
September 11th, 2005 at 11:30 amRumsfeld is disappointing me.
The Pentagon-sponsored parade is sadly thinking small.
Can't Secretary Rumsfeld look to Secretary Zhukov for example?
Can't he get his Trotskyite helpers to give more ideas to him?
http://www.rusfilm.pitt.edu/2000/Happy.jpg
http://www.fbuch.com/images/May_Day_1956b.JPG
http://images.encarta.msn.com/xrefmedia/sharemed/targets/video/T631916a.jsm
How about this one?
We could have Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld!!
http://www.luc.edu/depts/literacy/dim2.jpg
September 11th, 2005 at 11:30 amI imagine whimisical and capricious fascists such as the likes of Rumsfeld and Rice can make up any response to reality since in their minds they are the environment wherever they go. Many of these retrogrades in the Bush White House want us to believe everything they say is true just because they say it, even if it defies the facts on the ground.
These policy makers are just as blind with power as their Vietnam predecessors. -Kevo
September 11th, 2005 at 11:32 amThe idiot Lieberman wanted FEMA a part of Homeland Security. Now, he's shucking and jiving about it.
Asswipe.
September 11th, 2005 at 11:55 amAs I said before, Lieberman begins with a Lie.
September 11th, 2005 at 11:58 amImagine what would happen if we have a civil unrest in a major city in the next few weeks.
It wouldn't take much to set it off: A police shooting in Detroit; gays rioting in San Francisco after Schwarzenegger vetoes the gay marriage bill; or, an unpopular court decision in Los Angeles. Then, it could have a domino effect with riots spreading from city to city, coast to coast.
This is all within the realm of possibility. Personally, I'm stocking up on food and ammo. There won't be a National Guard to save us!
September 11th, 2005 at 1:08 pmI’m stocking up on food and ammo. There won’t be a National Guard to save us!
Cool! Let's start shooting connies and neo-connies! Kill a connie for Jesus today! The only good red is a dead red!
September 11th, 2005 at 2:12 pmI doubt that the catastrophy on the gulf coast will change a thing. Americans are selfish. In a few weeks or months they will forget. In 2006 and 08 the one thing the Bush administration may be held accountable for, is the price of gas. That, if it happens, will make me laugh.
September 11th, 2005 at 3:06 pmIf chaos breaks out, you know the neocon and Bush supporters will be raiding liberals for their supplies. They'll blame liberals for whatever goes wrong, then the shooting starts. It's not hard to find a right wing blog with people talking about "open season."
So yes, be prepared to defend yourself.
September 11th, 2005 at 3:15 pmBrian
You are spot on, Lieberman is a DINO. I have proposed a "roast the pig" strategy of picking one DINO up for re-election and pouring money into a strong primary challenge. Win or lose we need to start putting these DINOs on notice.
As for the republican skel "it was the Democratic state and locals fault", well republican skels, the other 47 states don't really care about a state or local response. We only see a clusterf**k response from the federal government. You see skels, when a disaster hits our states we are not counting on Louisiana to respond, we are counting on the response of the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. This is why the GOP sucks at governing a Americans see it, we see the bodies caught in the screen at the bottom of the GOP "bathtub". We see a failure of your skel ideology, an ideology guts the federal government then hands out “private†sleaze contracts to your corrupt corporations that add more bodies.
You republican skels are failures at every level of governance. But it is a failure at the most basic foundation level, the very bricks of your ideology are made of pulp paper, and your foundation is failing! History will not be kind to skels.
September 11th, 2005 at 3:37 pmCitizen80203,
The Dems need to start busting balls. They allowed themselves to be labelled "Unpatriotic for speaking out".
That exposed their weakness. I, too, was suckered into supporting the war. But it did not stop me from having the balls to change my mind and articulate it rationally.
What do Dems have to lose? Obviously the republicans can't handle power. They'll stay their current course and destroy themselves.
Conyers does it.
Hackett does it.
People love it.
I used to be polite with congress. Not anymore. And they email me back PERSONALLY, not the standard automated replies. Try it:http://www.congress.org/congressorg/directory/congdir.tt?command=congdir
Start with the Dems. Tell them how complicit they are. They shake in their shoes.
September 11th, 2005 at 4:12 pmOf course we should discuss this. Geez. I always thought that the National Guard was meant to provide domestic security. Other branches might well be deployed abroad, and the Reserves are there to back them up, but the National Guard, by its very name, is kind of supposed to be here. It'd be like sending half of the Coast Guard somewhere else and then acting surprised when the Coast isn't guarded.
September 11th, 2005 at 5:50 pmThe TP post we're discussing here didn't (but might have) touch on something Gen. Blum also said in the article he's quoted from here.
Blum pointed out that, despite what Condi may think, bringing in NG troops from out of state is NOT the same thing as having your own local boys and girls on the ground -- people who live in the area, and are intimately familiar with the geography, the culture and customs, the neighborhoods, the flora and fauna, the weather patterns, etc. Local Guardsmen know who to talk to, how to talk to them, and where to find the things they need -- precisely the kind of local intelligence that's absolutely critical when you're trying to solve life-or-death problems on the fly. No matter how good your imported troops may be, they won't have this deep reservoir of information to draw on.
Blum also talked about the fact that ALL the LNG's best-quality equipment was in Iraq -- including the emergency communications systems that turned out to be the only truly operational ones owned by the state.
It's sobering to think how different things might have been if there had been several thousands more emergency-trained natives right there from the get-go; operating instantly at the governor's command with hundreds more trucks, tanks, transports, and choppers; and connected with a functioning communications network. How much of the city might have been saved? How many people might not have died?
Let us never, ever forget that New Orleans is another direct casualty of Bush's stupid war.
September 11th, 2005 at 6:43 pm"Blum also talked about the fact that ALL the LNG’s best-quality equipment was in Iraq — including the emergency communications systems that turned out to be the only truly operational ones owned by the state.
It’s sobering to think how different things might have been if there had been several thousands more emergency-trained natives right there from the get-go; operating instantly at the governor’s command with hundreds more trucks, tanks, transports, and choppers; and connected with a functioning communications network. How much of the city might have been saved? How many people might not have died?
Let us never, ever forget that New Orleans is another direct casualty of Bush’s stupid war. "
comment from -Gone in Mind Only
Nonsense. Nobody including the city government gave a shit about New Orleans. The fact is they were hoping a Cat 5 hurricane would come in and wipe out the blight that was the poor Negroes of the city. If they had they'd spent the millions they were given over the last fifty years to protect the city. The fact is nothing less than the near hundreds of billions the Dutch spent on their dikes can save a city eight feet below sea level from a Cat 4 or 5 hurricane pushing 20 ft. seas and nobody was willing to do that for a shit hole of a city like New Orleans.
What's the matter with you anyway? They all knew that a big storm would clean the place out. They admitted it. If you want to get mad at somebody get mad at God. Come on, you know the routine; God=Hitler. But if you really want to place blame where it belongs blame the welfare society that created the problem with the poor, stupid and violent ghetto Negro in the first place. Take the welfare Negro out of the Katrina equation and you immediately have half the problem....dumbass kid, don't you get it. It's people that think like you that are the real problem. YOu get people killed. There ya go.
September 11th, 2005 at 7:17 pmAll that equipment and National Guard and mayor this and president that. It's so confusing! Why didn't Our leader just prevent all this!?!?
I see desolate blacks.
I see Bush.
I see desolate blacks.
I see Bush.
I see desolate blacks.
I see Bush.
I wouldn't run for office anytime soon, irighti.
September 11th, 2005 at 7:30 pmI know this ain't easy, Average. Do the best you can and if you've a mind, pray. Then when you get done pray'n get yourself a life and forget about it. You're not equipped to deal with it anyway.
September 11th, 2005 at 7:59 pmI-Right-I is really Ken Mehlman. Oops! Don't tell anyone I said that.
September 11th, 2005 at 9:11 pmI-RIGHT-I, Enroll in preschool. You'll expand your intellectual horizons. They even teach you to color with crayons and stay within the lines. For you, it will be an upliftig experienc.
September 11th, 2005 at 9:23 pmI-RIGHT-I, Enroll in preschool. You’ll expand your intellectual horizons. They even teach you to color with crayons and stay within the lines. For you, it will be an uplifting experience.
September 11th, 2005 at 9:25 pmThis MS keyyoard sucks.
I-RIGHT-I, Enroll in preschool. You’ll expand your intellectual horizons. They even teach you to color with crayons and stay within the lines. For you, it will be an uplifting experience.
September 11th, 2005 at 9:28 pmThis MS keyboard sucks.
Need I say more - it skips keys and remembers others if I go faster then 80 cpm.
I-Right-I,
September 11th, 2005 at 9:50 pmWhat do you think Bush is praying for when children are video taped while they are being raped in Iraq.
What is he praying for when people are held without due process because some evil judge wants to be promoted to supreme court? He prays for a world that not even satan could conjure. It's a world where people like you make sense. You have a sickness. And there is no cure for you because your parents gave it to you. And those illnesses don't go away until you die. How dare you tell someone to pray.
#54 -
September 11th, 2005 at 10:21 pmIt(IRI) doesn't know the difference between pray and prey.
So IRI had an ancestor who ground wheat into flour. My surname idicates that my forebears grew the wheat.
September 11th, 2005 at 10:35 pm#11
Sorry, incorrect. I confess that it was a trick question. The correct answer is not one of the choices (unless you want to select "d").
The actual strength of the U.S. military is roughly 2.6 million (http://www.dod.gov/pubs/dod101/). So with a generous estimate of 150,000 troops in Iraq, around 50,000 in Afganistan and 50,000 in Kuwaiit that yields a deployment of less than 10% of the total manpower strength in that part of the world. Even throwing in another 50,000 or so in other locations that provide support (for example, manning bases in Deigo Garcia) wouldn't get the total up to 15%.
I guess I'm just one of the stupid sheeple or perhaps a reich-wing nut case but I find it hard to understand how deploying less than 15% of our total war-making force results in having that force "stread too thin".
Does this mean the reaction to Katrina was the best it could have been or should have been? Of course not. However; arguments that the response would have been materially different had we not been "spread too thin" are specious at best.
September 12th, 2005 at 12:20 amWell, if both Rice and Rumsfeld said that we have plenty of resources to deal with Hurricane Katrina, I guess the only reason for the fuck up is poor execution on the Bush Team.
September 12th, 2005 at 12:42 amTom,
The problem is that most of the DOD forces are in fact committed to other enterprises of empire.
http://www.globalpolicy.org/empire/intervention/2003/0710imperialmap.htm
The reality is that we have few 'available' troops - the actual amount is fairly irrelevant in this discussion.
September 12th, 2005 at 12:48 amIt's amazing how Dems lack the ability to use logic. If they'd ever stop to think, they would understand that the greatest country in the world, one which fought several fronts during WWII, can deal with Hurricanes and and Iraq at the same time. Dems or Liberals, never quetion spending when it involves big government programs or pork spending. They only complain when it's spent on defending the country and giving them the right to say the idiotic things that they say. AS a Black American I don't need some caring Liberal thinking they know whats best for me. Look what their liberal ideas and policy did for the blacks in New Orleans.
September 12th, 2005 at 12:53 amFortunately, liberals were in power during WWII. The desire to share the burden was impressed throughout the nation. There were injustices - particularly for the black community and the Japanese, but the entire nation pulled together and met the challenge. Today, I have yet to see a child pulling a rusty red wagon along the street, gathering paper, rubber and metal for the cause like I did during WWII. But then, a few perverts have put a damper on that process.
September 12th, 2005 at 2:28 amEnoch,
We use logic just fine. The bush admin cuts the government revenue, starts a costly war, takes national guard troops which are supposed to handle natural disasters and uses them as international soldiers, and then because we have an all volunteer army, these poor white, latino and black kids don't want to sign up to die in iraq. And this is why everyone is saying the national guard is ill prepared - and it is a 'logical' reason. Is that clear to you, or would you like for me to give you some more logic?
As for what democrats did? Probably not enough for new orleans, but a HECK of a lot more than the republicans did. Republicans in the last 30 years have continually cut back school, social services and even destroyed job opportunities. The continued mismanagement of the economy by 6 republican presidents in the last 50 years have reduced the average adjusted working wage to an alltime low for that period. You can no longer live on minimum wage, and the republicans block all attempts to raise it. Even last week FEMA announced it wouldn't pay works the louisiana minimum wage, and infact will pay the ridiculous federal wage. Schools are under funded, and republicans want to cut them further.
So while you might be able to complain about democrats - the real complaint isn't that democrats have done nothings for new orleans, it's that they haven't done enough to stop the irresponsible and heartless republicans. And if you're foolish enough to become one of them, then you've been sold a bill of goods and you better look in the bag to see if you still have the receipt!
September 12th, 2005 at 4:53 am# 58
Sorry Ryan. The map on the page you reference is misleading at best, although technically correct. Many of the coutries shown as having a US military troop presence are places where the military presence consists of the military ataches and Marine embassy guards. I hardly think those deployments are "enterprises of empire".
If we are spread too thin then just how was it that the USS Bataan was on the scene in less than 48 hours conducting search and rescue, with two self contained hospital teams placed ashore? For that matter, I am friends with a M/Sgt who on Tuesday after the storm hit was helping deploy an force of 800 drawn from his division. How could they scrape up that many men in just a few days if we were "spread too thin"?
The assertions of many is that we are spread to thin because of Iraq, so in my original post I asked for others to tell me what percent of our forces were tied up there. The fact that practically no one even offered a guess tells me that no one actually knew, although the answer is easy to obtain. Perhaps our military forces are spread too thin. That is certainly a possibility. But so far all I have heard is an assertion. I'd like to see some actual evidence.
September 12th, 2005 at 10:47 amIt's been published far and wide, including in the Washington Post and the NYT, that 35% of Louisiana's National Guard forces (that's several thousand troops, y'all) were in Iraq. Worse, they had almost all of the LNG's best equipment with them. And, of the remaining 65%, half were recuperating from recent tours in Iraq, and the other half had been spending all their time getting ready to go, so they probably weren't as fresh for this job as we'd have liked them to have been, either.
The National Guard are THE designated first responders. The governor can call on them instantly, without any federal involvement at all. You cannot dispute that, because of Iraq, the front-line forces assigned primary responsibility for securing New Orleans were indeed spread way too thin to do the job required.
Of course, even at full strength, they'd have needed backup for a disaster of this magnitude. For that, they turn to the Guards in neighboring states -- which, in this case, were also depleted and under-equipped because of Iraq.
The fact that you know a few of the people who *could* show up is anecdotal. It's great that 800 Marines came -- but absent Iraq, it would have more likely been 1200 Marines instead (because, at any given time, we've got one-third of them over there, too). And that would have been 50% better.
The line of causality between Iraq and the inadequate emergency response in Louisiana is direct and obvious. Only an ideologue could argue otherwise.
September 12th, 2005 at 12:07 pmTom,
Because it's a fact - but CONservatives like you tend not to care for those. Lt. Gen. Steven Blum, chief of the National Guard Bureau, said that "arguably" a day or so of response time was lost due to the absence of the Mississippi National Guard's 155th Brigade Combat Team and Louisiana's 256th Infantry Brigade, each with thousands of troops in Iraq.
Get your facts straight, you're wrong, wrong, wrong and WRONG!
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/091005Z.shtml
September 12th, 2005 at 1:19 pm#63 and #64.
I'm well willing to consider facts. I'd just like to see some. Lt. Gen. Blum says hat "arguably" a day or so of response time was lost due to the absense of La. and Ms. NG units. OK, what exactly does that mean? The fact that the word "arguably" was included in his statement means that one could make an argument for the case but also against it. Had he said, "definitely" that would be a whole different matter but the use of "arguably" shows that even Lt. Gen. Blum thinks the case is ambiguous.
Gone at Last makes the argument that had we not been in Iraq 1200 soldiers (not Marines) could have been deployed rather than the 800 I referenced. Sorry, but I don't think that could have been the case. My friend told me that they were shoving soldiers in as fast as they could. The problem was a lack of ability to transport them to the areas they needed to be. When I spoke to him they were flying c-130s to Baton Rouge and then taking helicoptors from there to the NO airport. Does anyone want to guess at how many loads it takes to transport 800 soldiers (plus equipment, plus supplies) by helicopter?
Lastly, to address the point that, "The line of causality between Iraq and the inadequate emergency response in Louisiana is direct and obvious. Only an ideologue could argue otherwise." I must be an ideologue but I cannot understand why our presence in Iraq would have caused the Governor of La. to order relief supplies to be blockaded out of New Orleans or why being in Iraq caused local law enforcement to close the bridge between New Oleans and Gretna. For that matter, what about Iraq caused the city of New Oleans to disregard its own publised evacuation plan? All of these things contributed to the inadequacy of the response. I do not claim that they were the only problems, but surely 1) not evacuating those with no means, 2) blocking escape routes and 3) keeping food and water out were major contributors to the unnecessary misery those most helpless had to endure.
September 12th, 2005 at 3:28 pmTom,
Part of the reason they couldn't move those troops fast enough is that the equipment was in iraq. When they deployed the national guard, their toys went with them. That was part of the point the general made - please read the discussions on this topic, it's pretty well understood it is both a troop and equipment issue, just as it is in iraq. Heck they don't even have enough equipment in iraq itself, even with its priority... These are cheap stingy republicans, they don't spend on anything they aren't forced to...
September 12th, 2005 at 6:40 pmThe only thing I'd add to Ryan's comment is that you don't have to move troops at all if they already *live* near the site of the disaster.
That's sort of the point of having state Guard and Reserve units. They're already so close by (along with their toys, as Ryan said) that you can get them anywhere in the state you need them within a matter of hours.
And, rather than using those toys to move troops, they can be used to bring out refugees and bring in supplies.
It's not hard to see how having those designated, trained first responders at home and ready to roll cost precious time. Scrounging up troops from far yonder and getting them on site diverted valuable equipment that might have been used for evacuation and supplies. The time it took them to get there used up critical hours in the early stages of the disaster, when it might have made all the difference to thousands.
Blum said it may have cost as much as a day. Not hard to imagine at all.
September 12th, 2005 at 8:04 pmRyan what you just said proves you still just don't get it. Dems cannot accept their Failurs and so as usual it's somebody elses fault. Louisianna was not the only state that exixted under a Republican President. Other states prosperd during the terms of Republican presidents. So what happened in New Orleans was the result of it's local leadership more than anything the Federal Gov't did. I lived in two blue State cities in the 80's; Chicago and Los Angeles. I did just fine when the Terrible Reagan was President because I didn't look at life thru a prism of "Whats owed to me" rather I strove to achieve. Liberals always think they know whats best for others. I believe you honestly think that minimum wage is the answer to proverty. This liberal mindset of expecting the Gov't to make people successful is why those poor Blacks wallowed in proverty for the 50 odd years of Demomcrat rule.
AS for the national guard and disasters, as you can see from the progress made in New Orleans, our National Guard are doing just fine. In the last week the City is being Drained faster than expected, over 32,000 people have been rescued, the Levies are plugged and much, much more. The problem is that libs are always angry when things go right when it'a a Conservative running the operation. So much so that their emotions go haywire and they can't think logically. You guys hate bush and republicans so much that all you see is negative, negative, negative. You're never happy , you're always miserable. I feel sorry for you Ryan. Your liberal ideas are going down in flames because they are being rejected by most of the people of this Great Country. What you don't understand is that I was a lib once. So I know how you guys think and I know why you are failing. Dems and the so called Black Leadership in this Country like the Jesse Jacksons and so on, have sold Black people out. They care more about the Dems that their own people. If they were intellectually honest they would at least listen to other ideas on Race and provery. Instead they fall lock step with the Dems and keep telling poor Blacks that it's not their fault they are poor, it's the WHite man. Funny how those White men never include White Democrats, only White Republicans. But it's been the Dems who have run New Orleans the last 50 odd years. You can't escape from that fact Ryan as much as you try to deny it. There are two kinds of Liberals. Those who know that their ideas don't work, but get rewarded for spreading the lies thru money and power. And those like you Ryan who actually believe they can work. Ignorance is bliss. AS for the reciept for being a Republican; I have it framed on the wall as a testement to my awakening. God Bless you Ryan
September 13th, 2005 at 8:01 amThe reality is that we have few ‘available’ troops - the actual amount is fairly irrelevant in this discussion.
Comment by Ryan Neat, Loser
Translation: "The reality is we have few available troops and regarless of the number we actually have it's irrelevent if I say so."
Why do you people let him get away with this brainless tripe? Nevermind.
September 13th, 2005 at 9:33 pmHerels a recent Headline on the Drude Report dated 9/14/05:
†MILITARY RESCUE EFFORTS COMING TO END ALONG GULF COAST; 4,000 active-duty personnel, 2 large Navy vessels and 36 helicopters ordered into the relief effort will return to regular duties.... Developing... “
It’s laughable to believe that 4000 active duty personnel, 2 large Naval ships and 36 helicopters used in the Hurricane rescue and relief effort would so weaken our armed forces that we would be incapable of fighting the war in Iraq and helping the Hurricane victims at the same time. Yet all weeklong I’ve heard nothing but how the war in Iraq has weakened our ability to do both. Please Lib’s don’t let the facts get in the way. We have had several Hurricanes since the war in Iraq begun and we have had no problems with them until now. Why? Because this is one of the first that has been politicized by the left. Why because they see poor blacks in New Orleans and seized on an opportunity to further exploit the very Blacks that their ideas have led into Poverty in the first place. The response with hurricane Katrina was actually faster than many past hurricanes. For instance, it took five days for National Guard troops to arrive in strength on the scene in Homestead, Fla. after Hurricane Andrew hit in 1992. But after Katrina, there was a significant National Guard presence in the afflicted region in three.
I do believe this one should be singled out and analyzed, but not because of the response of FEMA but for the inept and complete failure of the local city and State governments of Louisiana to do their part in preparing for the Hurricane.
Here are a few quotes from a former Air Force logistics officer who had some words of advice for us in the Fourth Estate on his blog, Moltenthought: This info was taken from an article by Jack Kelly of the Post-Gazette .com Opinion dated 9/14/05. Read it here:( http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05254/568876.stm)
“You cannot speed recovery and relief efforts up by propositioning assets (in the affected areas) since the assets are endangered by the very storm which destroyed the region.â€
“Guardsmen need to receive mobilization orders; report to their armories; draw equipment; receive orders and convoy to the disaster area. Guardsmen driving down from Pennsylvania or Navy ships sailing from Norfolk can't be on the scene immediately.
Relief efforts must be planned. Other than propositioning supplies near the area likely to be afflicted (which was done quite efficiently), this cannot be done until the hurricane has struck and a damage assessment can be made. There must be a route reconnaissance to determine if roads are open, and bridges along the way can bear the weight of heavily laden trucks.â€
At the end of the day the real reasons for the failures in New Orleans have to be pointed at the real cause of the disaster if we hope to never see our fellow citizens in this situation again. It’s not FEMA but the local people whose first responsibility is to their own state.
September 14th, 2005 at 6:58 am