Rita Evacuation Exposes Class Divide
Rita Evacuation Exposes Class Divide
The evacuation away from the Texas coast has again laid bare the class divisions in America. Here’s how the exodus looked for people of different income levels –
Meanwhile, the governor said that among the 1.3 million evacuees are his parents — Houston resident and former President George H. W. Bush and his wife, Barbara Bush.
“They’re in Washington,” Gov. Bush said. “Their house (in Houston) is all boarded up.”
The storm’s march toward land sent hundreds of thousands of people fleeing the nation’s fourth-largest city in a frustratingly slow, bumper-to-bumper exodus.
“This is the worst planning I’ve ever seen,” said Judie Anderson, who covered just 45 miles in 12 hours after setting out from her home in the Houston suburb of LaPorte. “They say we’ve learned a lot from Hurricane Katrina. Well, you couldn’t prove it by me.”
Houston’s public housing officials were on hurricane alert Wednesday as Rita barreled toward the Texas coast, while transplanted New Orleans officials began leaving their temporary quarters in Houston.
Local officials said public housing residents are not being evacuated.
The rich are safe and sound, the middle class is struggling, and the poor are left behind. It’s the story of the Bush presidency.
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I can’t believe that, after everything that happened with Katrina we would intentially leave people in the path of this storm.
September 23rd, 2005 at 12:29 pmThe stratification is quite clear, isn’t it? It’s like putting society in a centrifuge.
September 23rd, 2005 at 12:34 pmLooks crystal clear to me.
September 23rd, 2005 at 12:36 pmWhat’s clear is you can’t expect to move 3 million people in a society which can barely get to work every morning. Perhaps the people of Texas will consider … a train?
September 23rd, 2005 at 12:40 pmIt’s the story of GOP governance: cronyism, whackjob theories masquerading as policy and blatant incompetence.
The wingnuts have been quick to jump on a couple of photographs of busses as some sort of proof that the local officials in Louisiana didn’t do their jobs (this, of course, was to distract from Bush’s failings). Frankly, I really do hope that this evacuation is more complete than the ones in Louisiana and Mississippi. But based upon the accounts we’re hearing, I have real doubts about this panning out. I have a bad feeling that there’s another tragedy in the making.
Here’s hoping I’m wrong. Maybe Rita will weaken drastically.
September 23rd, 2005 at 12:47 pmIt’s the story of LIFE you hypocrite.
All of this class warfare and race baiting will come back to haunt the left come next election.
September 23rd, 2005 at 12:47 pmHow many seats in air force one and 2.? Just wondering. If I were in charge every one would of gotten out of there quick. Using every available means, including the above two. Yep and I would of used them for the poor and sick first, women and children next. Repugs would be the last on my list. We have the means to accomplish anything, just no brains in our govt. officials to see beyond their own waletts…Blessings
September 23rd, 2005 at 12:50 pmNeD,
Nice, try. Weren’t you guys the ones lamenting the local officials in NOLA not doing more to evacuate the poor? Why would this matter, if it’s “just life”?
Don’t you even wait a day before flip-flopping?
September 23rd, 2005 at 12:51 pm#4, suggesting a train is a great idea, but that would mean lower fuel consumption by millions of cars. This administration would never allow that to happen.
September 23rd, 2005 at 12:54 pm“All of this class warfare and race baiting will come back to haunt the left come next election.”
Well, let’s see. The right wingers started the class warfare and have shown there racism. Just look at the filth spew by your buddy I-RIGHT-I. Very racist and very elitist.
We didn’t start this war, but we will end it. See you in 2006. Good fvcking luck.
September 23rd, 2005 at 12:56 pmI was speaking to my wife this morning about how “easily” you could evacuate a major urban area if only the U.S. had bothered (over the last 50 years or so) to invest in passenger rail systems. Having travelled extensively in Europe and Scandinavia I have seen first hand how efficient and effective light rail systems can be. Maybe now with the looming threat of lost and shrinking oil reserves, the American government (ALL OF IT) will reconsider the entire Amtrak system and not continue to promote selfish and wasteful tansportation systems like the automobile.
September 23rd, 2005 at 12:58 pmA country that cannot protect its people, all its people, can no longer be considered a Superpower.
Cuba moved 1.5 million people to safety before Hurricane Ivan. Total deaths = 0.
September 23rd, 2005 at 12:59 pmBut Wait! According to Barbara this is all going to go very well for them. They all get a free ride in a helicopter (Wheee!) and a few hot meals on a football field! What fun!
September 23rd, 2005 at 1:09 pmSpudge Boy – Democrats are the race baiters. Charlie Rangel was at it again the other day with Hillary and Obama shaking their head in agreement.
If you people want to start a race/class war in Bush’s name – FINE. Prepare to be slaughtered at the polls. If Rita or Katrina hit during Clinton’s (non-marjority) term, the same exact thing would have happened. Democrats are the most to blame because they are your people – you’ve taught them to HATE Republicans. It doesn’t matter what we say – you creeps will call us racist and those fools will believe you.
AND what about the 1995 Chicago heatwave – 1,000 people died. Was that Clinton’s fault.
September 23rd, 2005 at 1:10 pmNED,
I posted this on a different thread for you, but I’m sure you didnt read it there, so here ya go:
NED,
Your desperate cling to your “GOP Gods’ and your pathetic need to “belong†to a “side†that you believe is “winning†makes your remarks ring out as chilling, scared and ignorant.
If the only thing that concerns you is that you are on the winning or right side (no pun intended) come the next election, no matter how many people have to suffer and/or die under your precious gods, then why do you waste your time struggling to defend their actions, like on this site?
You’re so willing to stand up and voice your support for your “gods†causes, yet you obviously lack the intestinal fortitude to actually stand up and get involved.
“It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat.†— Theodore Roosevelt
You’re worse then the critic NED. You’re simply a cheerleader; someone who is too week to take part, and too scared to be wrong.
September 23rd, 2005 at 1:13 pmElvis – STFU. You know nothing about me. Aside from spending, I support the GOP and the President. I don’t support the hateful left who have no ideas to advance except trashing the President. AND I certainly don’t support hypocrites like yourself whining about human suffering, as if somehow it is Bush who inflicted all this human suffering. I think you’re a fascist and you would be better off in Canada if you ask me.
September 23rd, 2005 at 1:17 pm#11
“Maybe now with the looming threat of lost and shrinking oil reserves, the American government (ALL OF IT) will reconsider the entire Amtrak system and not continue to promote selfish and wasteful tansportation systems like the automobile.”
While I agree and would love some form of public transportation near me, it just won’t happen with our current government.
The way public tarnsportantion is around my area is setup is a bunch of busses that go from the poor sections of Santa Ana to the jail, court house and welfare office.
One time when my car was broke down, I was going to take the bus. It would have taken around four hours to go the distance it normally takes me fourty five minutes to drive. The problem is that the busses start running at 6:00 AM and I need to be to work at 9:00 AM. You do the math. How can I get to work in three hours when the bus takes four.
This is setup this way very intentionally to discourage people from using public transportation and keep drving their automobiles.
September 23rd, 2005 at 1:17 pmI support Amtrak through the laws of supply and demand. Something no one in this blog seems to understand.
September 23rd, 2005 at 1:18 pmI have a couple of stories from Houston now posted on my blog. From local residents there.
September 23rd, 2005 at 1:28 pmAmtrak would be a good deal if it were expanded, think the idea is a dead one cause it got cut in one of the bush bill messes, didn’t it.?..Blessings
September 23rd, 2005 at 1:28 pm#18, I disagree with just about everything you post, but I do agree with your implications in #18. If more people rode public transportation, more would be built. People in the US love to be alone in their cars and until that mindset diminishes, we will consume gasoline at astrononmical levels. But don’t you think that relaxing fuel economy and emission standards only encourages automakers to ignore alternative technologies? Where is the responsibilty in this government?
September 23rd, 2005 at 1:33 pmThere’s no reason why Amtrak couldn’t be temporarily routed there to pick up a few loads of people! And other trains too. Although I am not a big fan of stuffing people into boxcars, trains move quickly enough to get hundreds of folks a hundred miles away, out of danger.
September 23rd, 2005 at 1:34 pmBut it won’t happen. No sense of urgency getting the po’ folks out of the way.
Hey NeD, how do you feel about Israeli paramilitary patrolling the streets of New Orleans? Do we really need armed members of a foreign power keeping the peace in America? Do you condone this? Just curious…
#21 – agreed. Again, alot of state and local govts are to blame. The Feds could offer incentives to build transit, but the states have to step up to the plate.
Most people (sorry, here it comes) are selfish, gas guzzling brats who don’t want to ride a train. Just what it boils down to.
September 23rd, 2005 at 1:34 pmWelcome to the On-Your-Own Society created by the GOP.
September 23rd, 2005 at 1:35 pmSara – was unaware. It doesn’t bother me if it were true. Why such hostility towards Israel? They love America and beleive in democracy – isn’t that a good thing?
September 23rd, 2005 at 1:36 pmComposter – How did Cuba achieve this marvel of evacuation, mule train?
September 23rd, 2005 at 1:37 pmHey NeD, why do you want to be around all of us hateful filthy liberals?
September 23rd, 2005 at 1:38 pmNED – “Aside from spending, I support the GOP and the President.”
NED, there is nothing else that Bush and company does other than spend. What they spend the money on shows a gross neglect for people and the environment. I find it difficult to believe that you can support Bush but not support his spending.
NED – “supply and demand”. I understand how this works NED and I also understand how Bush understands it. He thinks, the neo-cons demand and he supplies.
September 23rd, 2005 at 1:38 pmLook folks – I am the last one to defend the Bush administration, or pretend there’s no class divide. BUT. What is lost in the national news reports you are seeing is that Houston is, geographically, a very very big place. Parts of the city to the south and southeast are in grave danger of flooding, and people are being evacuated there. The northern half of the city has no real risk of flooding, although obviously there is wind danger.
And FYI I am posting this comment from a house inside the city limits of Houston, TX, (far north part of town) where 4 of us looked at the danger, the road conditions, the gas situation, and concluded that we were better off hunkering down here.
There is a real issue here, but getting facts right does matter.
Finally, a commuter rail system (which is slowly being built here) would not evacuate anybody.
September 23rd, 2005 at 1:39 pmNED – “Most people (sorry, here it comes) are selfish, gas guzzling brats who don’t want to ride a train. Just what it boils down to.”
This is the most accurate statement I’ve seen you make! This is another area where legislation coming from the top can make a difference. It has to start from the top to encourage mass transit. Then, locally, things must be done to encourage less use of cars. There are far too few considerations for pedestrians in any major North American city. I also would say that it isn’t Bush’s fault for this (you may grin if you like) BUT it will take a huge energy crisis and leadership with big balls to make the change. I don’t see the big balls in any polititian at this time.
September 23rd, 2005 at 1:45 pmJohn, I hope you and your friends and family can weather the storm. I think you are right about a light rail transit system not helping evacuate fully BUT it would be a good way to transport people to an area where buses could complete the evacuation. This would be great especially for those without cars.
September 23rd, 2005 at 1:49 pm“BUT it will take a huge energy crisis and leadership with big balls to make the change. I don’t see the big balls in any polititian at this time. ”
That’s the truth!!! It’s a bipartisan problem, too.
September 23rd, 2005 at 1:49 pmJohn, to your last paragraph – I don’t think we’re talking about using a light rail system for evacuation. “Light rail” is what is being built (slowly) in Houston. (I know someone used that term and we ventured off into a discussion of commuting to work)
Sara said it best in #22. There is no reason her idea could not be executed, the tracks are already in place and have been for many years.
September 23rd, 2005 at 1:50 pmNED,
I must have touched a sensitive nerve there huh? Wonder why it hurt so bad…
I never said “Bush inflicted all this human suffering.” However, I will say that he multiplied it exponentially. I have also said before that I am not a democrat, so as far as supporting one side or another, I do not. I support my side, which is the people’s side, the peoples of the world side.
As far as Canada is concerned: I’m doing just fine where I am, thank you. Clearly that irritates you, which in return entertains me. It must completely grate on your nerves that there are people in this nation who hate most everything that it stands for in the world. Who view it [The United States] as a hypocritical and pathetic attempt at democracy. Who believes that what you read in the history books of our schools is mostly lies, and obstructed points of view. But at the same time recognizes and embraces the personal freedoms we have in this country (though its only thanks to “the people†not “the politicians†that it is this way).
I’m doing what I can to change this country, for the better, from my perspective. And I’ll happily go on speaking to you, as long as you are here, no matter how many times you tell me/us to “STFU.”
This is free speech NED.
“‘You want free speech? Let’s see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who’s standing center stage and advocating, at the top of his lungs, that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours. You want to claim this land as the land of the free, then the symbol of your country can’t just be a flag; the symbol also has to be one of its citizens exercising his right to burn that flag in protest.’ Show me that, defend that, celebrate that in your classrooms. Then you can stand up and sing about the land of the free.”
September 23rd, 2005 at 1:50 pm# 32- Wow, some consensus with NED. The end of the world IS near.
September 23rd, 2005 at 1:52 pmElvis – at least you admit you hate America. That is the first step.
I admit – it bothers me that people like you live here and take this country for granted. On the other hand, it must bother you that almost NO ONE thinks like you. In your little world, your the revolutionary against the big bad government. In my view, you’re just spoiled and should go live in Iran and then talk to me about freedom.
September 23rd, 2005 at 1:56 pmStuff You Should Read
The rich folks are safe, and everyone else is left to fend for themselves.
September 23rd, 2005 at 1:59 pmNED,
I didnt say “I hate America.” I said I “hate most everything that it stands for in the world. Who view it [The United States] as a hypocritical and pathetic attempt at democracy.”
I hate our foreign policy, our human rights policy, or trade policy, etc.
There is a difference NED. Political dissent is not “hating America.” Hating the politics, is not “hating the country.”
September 23rd, 2005 at 2:01 pmNED, I don’t think anyone here hates America. We just hate the direction its going, and those who are leading us in that direction. Hating what America stands for at the present time, at this point in our history, is not hating America.
September 23rd, 2005 at 2:02 pm#1 we all have to work to ‘un-fix’ the voting system
#2 vot out the crooks, or IMPEACH.
THIS IS ALL THEY UNDERSTAND.
September 23rd, 2005 at 2:03 pm“I admit – it bothers me that people like you live here and take this country for granted. On the other hand, it must bother you that almost NO ONE thinks like you. In your little world, your the revolutionary against the big bad government. In my view, you’re just spoiled and should go live in Iran and then talk to me about freedom.”
And here I thought that we were finally going to get to have a debate with NeD in a civilized manner and he goes off the deep end again. Too bad, you can never figure out what these trools want, then when you think you’re going to find out, they go crazy.
September 23rd, 2005 at 2:04 pmThe way I see it is that if people can afford to drive their cars, they will. It is the preferred mode of transportation in this country.
So what we really need to do is make it prohibitively expensive to drive and voila! Less gas consumption and more demand for public transportation.
So let’s raise gas taxes until the cost of a gallon is $6 and see what happens. I think we can get Kerry behind that. Just tell him that France does it that way…
September 23rd, 2005 at 2:05 pmNED,
By the way, I don’t need to go to Iran. I’ve been to Okinawa, Liberia, Sierra Leone, Spain, Canada, Guam, the Caribbean Islands… I’ve scene a share of the world. I know what its like to be gone for over a year and come home with fresh eyes. Iran needs our help NED. Not our hatred.
September 23rd, 2005 at 2:06 pmOh wait, wouldn’t that be kind of a regressive tax?
September 23rd, 2005 at 2:07 pmBTW, on the NeD THReD — I understand that you guys don’t hate America. You just wish it was more in line with your vision of what it should be. You must realize, however, that vision is very different from what ‘average’ americans want so it is very unlikely to become reality.
September 23rd, 2005 at 2:10 pmElvis – I know they need our help. What to you propose we do?
I don’t agree with either of you on the “hating America” or what it stands for. I disdained Bill Clinton and I hate his wife (my senator, I might add). But, I always loved this country even if they voted that fool in there. I didn’t like alot of his policy (of course, he didn’t have the power to enact), but he was still my President (ughh….)
September 23rd, 2005 at 2:10 pmNED,
What’s the difference between “taking for granted” and “utilization?”
I can talk about freedom any second of any day. I, that is, no one need to go somewhere else before they express their opinions about freedom. You don’t write those laws/rules. You have zero power when it comes to who can talk about what, when, and how.
Have you been to Iran NED?
September 23rd, 2005 at 2:11 pmCC
“You just wish it was more in line with your vision of what it should be. You must realize, however, that vision is very different from what ‘average’ americans want so it is very unlikely to become reality.”
ACtually you need to get out more. Talk to some regular people. I can tell you that I work in high tech PR. I speak with people all over the country and the majority can’t stand this administration. We are the “average” people you are too far to the right.
You will find out soon enough.
September 23rd, 2005 at 2:15 pmNeD,
We’ll take this real slow, so you can pick up on it.
When Bush obliged the Gov. of Louisiana by declaring a federal disaster for Louisiana parishes under the Stafford Act, he automatically declared Katrina an “Incident of National Significance”.
What does that mean? Well, it means that, under the National Response Plan which Bush signed, FEMA was to take the lead role in preparing for and dealing with the aftermath of Katrina.
It also specifies that the President takes the lead in responding to the disaster. He does NOT go on vacation, trusting that his hand-picked (but incompetent) cronies will do the job. HE’S PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE.
THAT is why this disaster is not comparable to the Chicago heat wave. No matter how you cry about the local officials, the simple fact is that by statute and contract, the administration was primarily responsible.
We pay this guy nearly half a million yearly (plus perks) to do a job for us. If he can’t do it, he shouldn’t have applied.
You guys like to moan and cry about “personal responsiblity”, but it sure goes out the window fast when it’s one of your own who’s not doing his job.
Once you accept and wrap your head around that, then we’ll be getting somewhere.
September 23rd, 2005 at 2:16 pmSpudge_Boy – not true. Average people are not happy with Bush right now, but they don’t hate him. They’re tired – look at what we’ve been through. They don’t blame Bush, but he’s not the 90% President anymore. Far from it. Every President goes through this. AND what’s even funnier – average people are sick of Democrats like Joe Biden and Pelosi.
If you work at high tech PR firm, you’re not talking to average people.
September 23rd, 2005 at 2:19 pmYou’re probably correct. I am talking to highly intellegent people and we know that the average person is anything but intellegent. That is how Bush got into office.
September 23rd, 2005 at 2:24 pmDefending this Admin. is impossible, and almost funny.
September 23rd, 2005 at 2:26 pmSpudge Boy,
I have to agree with NeD on this one. I don’t think you can make the argument that the high tech PR (or this site) is representative of average america.
I am at this site trying to broaden my understanding of “the other side” and not just listen to the mouthpieces of the right. I respectfully suggest you try the same.
September 23rd, 2005 at 2:29 pmSara – Nice of the Israeli’s to offer their help – especially with the alleged looting by some of New Orleans “finest”. Where are those sensitive French when we need them??
September 23rd, 2005 at 2:29 pm#51 — if you think it is more important to talk with “intelligent people” (read: people who think like you)than to win elections then you will keep losing
September 23rd, 2005 at 2:31 pmHey Elvis – I agree – this is such a hideous, hateful, hypocritical country that you might want to get out a bit more and see how long you’d last criticizing the powers that be in that fine progressive bastion, say, Cuba.
September 23rd, 2005 at 2:34 pm#51 – lol!!! UM – look at the base of your party in NOLA!! They’re helpless, yet Republicans are the dumb ones.
September 23rd, 2005 at 2:34 pmElvis – please give us your Foriegn policy suggestions.
September 23rd, 2005 at 2:35 pmConcerned Conservative,
The polls show differently – only republicans living in their cloistered suburbs (especially in the red states) are unaware that their opinions are in fact the minority. This is why your side had to rig the last several elections – you’re losing the mindshare even with the corporate press shoving your propaganda…
September 23rd, 2005 at 2:35 pmI’ll agree that the average person doesn’t “hate” Bush. But that’s not really that important. What’s important is that the average person is closer to the idea that Bush is a terrible and incompetent leader than to the idea that he’s God’s Gift to the WhiteHouse.
Unfortunately for the GOP, it’s also the case that the “average” person prefers voting for Democrats over Republicans at this point. Yeah, a lot can change between now and November 2006. But believing that the “average” person right now is closer to the small-and-ever-shrinking minority who still supports George Bush and backs the GOP is simply wishful thinking.
September 23rd, 2005 at 2:37 pmaverage people are lemings that buy into republican controlled media. On the other hand 70% of Americans now believe that Iraq cannot be won. More than 1/2 now believe that Iraq war was a mistake. people are waking up. at least 1/2 the nation really-really despises your drunk of a president. so you NED are spewing our of your ass. as usual. what a hateful sad piece of work you are. and a liar to boot.
September 23rd, 2005 at 2:37 pmNED,
The base of the Democratic Party is anyone who gives a damn about other people, and puts looking out for each other ahead of obscure philosophies about limiting the “proper role of government”.
And that, my friend, is why you guys are increasingly in real trouble.
September 23rd, 2005 at 2:38 pm“And that, my friend, is why you guys are increasingly in real trouble”
It’s quite the opposite, my friend. Elections matter.
September 23rd, 2005 at 2:40 pmRE: #14 “If Rita or Katrina hit during Clinton’s (non-marjority) term, the same exact thing would have happened.”
Has anyone else noticed this line creeping into the winger noise machine. The problem is that it is soooo total BS. FEMA was the poster-child of good government programs under Clinton. You have no idea what you are talking about if you think a Clinton administration response to Katrina would have been the same as Shrub’s.
September 23rd, 2005 at 2:43 pmCC is making an excellent point here, and it’s one that liberals and Democrats in general really need to listen to.
All too often, liberals approach people who don’t immediately see the rightness of liberal positions as “unintelligent”. It’s an attitude that HAS done damage to the “left-wing agenda”.
These are the people who are most hurt by today’s GOP and its far-right policies, yet we’re driving them away with an air of elitism. That really needs to stop. After all, what’s the point of liberal policies if it’s not to help those who can’t help themselves?
“Highly intelligent” and highly educated people, on average, already have advantages in this life. It’s those who know something is wrong but are susceptible to right-wing lies about who’s to blame that we need to reach and help.
September 23rd, 2005 at 2:43 pmIf they kill off all the poor, who is going actually work in this country?
There’s a private room in hell for these folks.
September 23rd, 2005 at 2:45 pmNED,
“look at the base of your party;” would you please tell me which party I belong to?
mighty aphrodite,
In response to #59, NED asked, I answered.
In response to #57. Read Howard Zinn’s A People History of The United States, and then see if you can honestly tell me that you think this nation/government is honest and moral.
I don’t need to go to Cuba. What I stated was “work to create governments in all nations that the PEOPLE want.” How is that wrong? Support THE PEOPLE, not the government. That is until their own government is properly supporting them, the way the people want.
September 23rd, 2005 at 2:46 pmThey sure do, NED. They sure do. And your prospects, quite frankly, don’t look too hot these days.
Evidently you can’t sense it, but it would appear the “gimmick” of lies and fear-mongering you guys rode to power seems to be losing its effectiveness. And that’s really not good for you.
September 23rd, 2005 at 2:46 pm#68 – propects?? Democrats don’t have a single power base in Washington. They are about to lose their bloody grip on the Supreme Court. I think my prospects are just fine. Your’s are another story.
September 23rd, 2005 at 2:47 pmNED,
Perhaps this will come as a shock to your fascist sensibilities, but one of the neat things about representative democracies like ours is that no one gets to be dictator for life. There will be more elections. The next ones, for example, are in 2006.
Kinda cool the way that happens.
September 23rd, 2005 at 2:54 pm#65 — Well said, Jonathan — thanks for clarifying my point. It means more coming from you than me — I am the enemy after all, so any advice I provide is going to be suspect…
September 23rd, 2005 at 2:57 pmWhat do expect from the rich Repugs. They protect the rich and leave the poor.
September 23rd, 2005 at 2:58 pmHowever, it IS nice to hear a far-righter, most of whom too often whine and cry about how “oppressed” they are by the vastly powerful “liberal elite”, admit that for now the GOP has control of Washington. Interestingly, that also means they have no one to blame for:
- Attempting to gut Social Security
- The Iraq disaster
- The exploding deficit
- High gas prices
- A sluggish recovery of jobs and wages
- Constantly-demonstrated extremism in government (e.g. the Sciavo affair
- Amazing levels of government corruption (e.g. Frist, DeLay, Rove, and on and on)
- and, of course, incredibly-lacking federal government response to national disasters like Katrina
The thing is, most of the public has now awakened to these facts. And that, my friend, is why I say you guys are in real trouble.
September 23rd, 2005 at 3:00 pmNeD, #14, pounded on the keyboard until this spewed forth:
“Democrats are the most to blame because they are your people – you’ve taught them to HATE Republicans”
NeD, newsflash, Republicans are the sole culprits on who taught who to hate Republicans. No need for anyone else to step in on that lesson.
September 23rd, 2005 at 3:16 pmAnd NeD again, #63 wrote:
“And that, my friend, is why you guys are
increasingly in real troubleâ€
It’s quite the opposite, my friend. Elections
matter.
No, NeD, elections are fixed these days.
September 23rd, 2005 at 3:19 pmHere’s a quick correction to NED’s Chicago heat wave deaths of ‘95. It seems that he’s inflating the numbers. Typical of O’Liely and others’ skewed use of data.
According to the Cook County Medical Examiner’s Office, the heat-related deaths were 465, not 1000 as NED claims (115% exaggeration).
Reevaluations of the deaths also have come up with 739 as the number of “excess deaths”. NED’s data is still inflated by 35%.
Sorry if this isn’t the main point of the thread, I just want to point of misuse of facts.
September 23rd, 2005 at 3:22 pmJohnathan – yes, and we will gain senate seats in ND, WV and possibly MD and Minne. Santorum is probably gone. We will lose approx. four house seats. The math is way in our favor.
Theresa – stop lying. The left’s crocodile tears over the black community is sick and disgusting. You don’t care about them – you just use them to attack Republicans and attempt to steal elections. You’re a shameless pig.
September 23rd, 2005 at 3:29 pm#76 – ok, so was Clinton responsible for those deaths?
September 23rd, 2005 at 3:29 pmNED,
How could you possibly know whether or not Theresa is lying? Who do you think you are to say that the “left” doesn’t care about people? You have no idea who we are, where we came from.
Your remarks are prejudice, NED. Who is the “shameless pig?†And why do you use such vulgar words to degrade people?
September 23rd, 2005 at 3:34 pmI should know better and not feed the troll, so I’ll refrain from his last “comment”
Theresa
September 23rd, 2005 at 3:35 pm“It’s quite the opposite, my friend. Elections matter.”
NED, that’s true, but they only matter to republicans long enough to rig so they can tell each other they ‘won’ , when in fact they lost…
September 23rd, 2005 at 3:37 pmElvi, Your foriegn policy suggestions – clever you (!) we’re waiting….
September 23rd, 2005 at 3:43 pmI’ve been reading your comments NED
All I can say is
Brawwwk…
You are just a Limbannity parrot
Brawwk…
September 23rd, 2005 at 3:44 pmI love how pointing out that there are class differences and that the poor do not have adequate protections always turns into a reichwing complaint that we’re waging class warfare. So the very fact of speaking the truth is ‘warfare’? It is to a propagandist – as that truth undermines the delusion and illusion that they prefer to live in… Instead of being responsible, recognizing that there are problems that exist and we should address, the prefer to act like the good children of alcoholics and abusive parents they clearly are – and sweep everyting under the rug pretending there isn’t anything wrong…
September 23rd, 2005 at 3:45 pmAphrodingy,
How do you respond to my clear evidence that France was on the scene before israel? And you didn’t answer my question – are you a zionist? If you are, why do you claim to be an american – your allegience is clearly with israel, and you should move the country who’s interests you’re looking out for and stop pretending to be an american.
September 23rd, 2005 at 3:53 pmNed is another zionist LimpBot – he’s never had a thought of his own in his life. He thinks israel farts sunshine, and that america’s job is to secure israel. He and aphrodingy are of the same self absorbed and illiterate ilk. Neither of them has quoted a single honest fact or honest statistic since they’ve arrived.
September 23rd, 2005 at 3:57 pmPoverty is on the rise again because a republican is in office. Lets review the previous few presidents as well to see how they did.
Poverty declined by an average of 2.29 percent (relative to existing poverty numbers – not total percent of americans) in the Clinton years (a move in the right direction).
It grew by 4.33 percent annually (relative to existing poverty numbers – not total percent of americans) in the BushI years.
When Reagan took office 11% of americans lived in poverty. It rose so much over the next 12 years, that when BushII took office it was up to 13%.
It had dropped to nearly 12% under Clinton, and now it’s back up to almost 13 again. When welfare began under Johnson, poverty rates were at 19% – so they had dropped from 19% to 11% until the reichwingers under Reagan began to dismantle these programs falsely claiming they don’t work!
If you’re inept and incompetent as reichwingers are at government – it’s true they don’t work. But they worked under Nixon and Ford, so it’s clearly a NeoCon and CONservative problem – and not exclusively a republican one.
September 23rd, 2005 at 4:05 pmMighty aphrodite (#82), we don’t need to wait for Elvis’s foreign policy ideas. Everyone here, including the trolls like NED, are still waiting on Bush/Cheney’s.
September 23rd, 2005 at 4:12 pmNed if the NeoCons stay in power there won’t be any safety for you at all. See with diebold, they don’t need you anymore – so you’ll be next…
September 23rd, 2005 at 4:14 pmAphrodite’s foreign policy idea is that we should hand over the american military to ariel sharon and the Mossad and take out islam – she’s an insane zionist…
Of course Chertoff (the head of homeland security) is an israeli citizen, and his mother was a mossad agent – so who knows, maybe this is exactly what she’ll get… After all, a religious fanatic is usually a terrorist, even a jewish one…
September 23rd, 2005 at 4:16 pm#85 Mr. Messy – this was posted – keep up!
Ryan Messy – “And yet you follow republicans which are entirely moral relativism in action. You claim to want to protect babies, yet you starve, poison and abandom them. You claim to want to protect lives, yet you wage wars, kill innocent inmates and torture innocent people.†No, Ryan we feed and shelter abandoned children through numerous charities and philanthropies. I want to see no one innocent of a crime executed – that is why I support Barry Scheck’s “Innocence Project†which has assisted inmates convicted of horrific crimes through the use of DNA. If by torturing “innocent people†you are referring to Islamic detainees of the US (again your thoughts are a bit “squishyâ€) I hope they make them wear soiled underwear on their heads 24/7. (My avenging nature comes out when I think of the frozen fear and mental anguish of Daniel Pearl, Nick Berg and others.) And yes, oh quick one, I am a PROUD defender of Israel and a Zionist. I am a “recovering liberal†due to fact liberalism tries to negate the competitve side of human nature – and the majority of the welfare programs DO NOT WORK. Liberalism makes excuses for people’s poor behaviour and props up cultures of illegitimacy and disdain for education. Two quick questions for you:
1.) Did Mom and Dad waste their hard earned $$ on your
“educationâ€? – You always manage to duck that “qâ€.
2.) Your responses seem to be EXTREMELY immature – sort of like my kids when they were 7 or 8. Go sit in the corner!
Comment by mighty aphrodite — September 23, 2005 @ 1:34 pm
September 23rd, 2005 at 4:16 pmAnd to the French – thank you! I understand the French have turned umbrella twirling into an art form!
September 23rd, 2005 at 4:18 pmNo, Elvis, I’m really curious about Hank foriegn policy “ideas” – maybe you don’t have an inquitive mind.
September 23rd, 2005 at 4:20 pmAphrodite picked the correct name to represent herself. The only real power the ‘mighty’ aphrodite had was to beguile men into doing her bidding. This is a the perfect name for a propagandist who lies to persuade…
September 23rd, 2005 at 4:20 pm#87 – Ryan: I love it. Truth. Spoken clearly.
Another set of numbers that show the Repugs for who they really are are the percentages of who owns what by salary range. Very frightening if you believe that an economy and the overseeing government have a responsibility to all the people of a nation, not just the top 1%.
September 23rd, 2005 at 4:21 pm“And yes, oh quick one, I am a PROUD defender of Israel and a Zionist.”
Then you are not an american, you are an israeli. Please leave this country, as it’s clear you have no allegiance to it, nor do you act in the capacity of a loyal american. And take ned and the rest of your treasonous trash out with you!
September 23rd, 2005 at 4:22 pm“And to the French – thank you! I understand the French have turned umbrella twirling into an art form!”
And how does the lying propagandist respond when she’s clearly been shown to be a lying moron? She tries to crack what she thinks is a clever joke – but instead it just show’s she’s clearly incapable of recognizing her own limitations, failures and ignorance.
As for paying for my education (a common response), clearly whoever paid for my education got more of a value than the one who was stuck with yours… At least I know how to research a point…
September 23rd, 2005 at 4:24 pmMr. Messy – No, being a proud Mmerican I would never turn over our military to a foriegn entity – not even a dear “friend”. You better watch out for the Mossad Terry and Ryan – they’re watching!!!!! tee-hee!!!
September 23rd, 2005 at 4:27 pmWell, that was weird.
September 23rd, 2005 at 4:32 pmZionists and soiled underwear.
What was this tread about?
Oh yeah, class divisions and Rita
evacuations.
“No, Ryan we feed and shelter abandoned children through numerous charities and philanthropies. ”
Republicans should call this the ‘compassion is optional’ approach. See liberals see this as a right, immoral republicans like you see this as a charitable option. You’re clearly selective moralists…
“I want to see no one innocent of a crime executed – that is why I support Barry Scheck’s “Innocence Project†which has assisted inmates convicted of horrific crimes through the use of DNA.”
And yet you support the death penalty. DNA testing didn’t exist at the point where many death row inmates were killed, yet they would have been exonerated had they lived. Once again, you are selective moralists who are ready to kill anyone you ‘think’ threatens you, without thinking through the consequences. You’re a murder…
“If by torturing “innocent people†you are referring to Islamic detainees of the US (again your thoughts are a bit “squishyâ€) I hope they make them wear soiled underwear on their heads 24/7. ”
Actually those are the ones. See several of the detainees who were tortured were eventually determined to be innocent bystanders. Also torture only rewards immoral psychotics like you with a sense of power because you feel helpless. Seeing that you’re a tear jerking zionist – I can see that has destroyed your mental state and that you can no longer think rationally. Torturing innocent or even guilty prisoners is an unreliable method of information retrieval – not to mention that it is a form of TERRORISM you retarded moron.
“(My avenging nature comes out when I think of the frozen fear and mental anguish of Daniel Pearl, Nick Berg and others.) ”
So instead of finding a moral center you wish to perform the same behavior on the other side. See this is how THEY feel, and why they do it. You aren’t different from the islamicists – both you (and the christian radicals) are the enemy of the civilized world. You are all stupid barbarians.
“And yes, oh quick one, I am a PROUD defender of Israel and a Zionist. ”
Then you are a traitor to america. You cannot serve two masters. Pick your side and stop pretending to be interested in american interests as those frankly don’t coincide with giving carte blanche to the torture, murder and concentration camps that is israel.
“I am a “recovering liberal†due to fact liberalism tries to negate the competitve side of human nature – and the majority of the welfare programs DO NOT WORK. ”
Who told you that bunk! That’s bullshit. Welfare DOES work. It reduced poverty from 19% to 11% between Johnson and Reagan. You’ve bought into the NeoCon lie you retarded moron!
“Liberalism makes excuses for people’s poor behaviour and props up cultures of illegitimacy and disdain for education. ”
Actually that’s conservatism does. It makes excuses for cheap people who don’t want to pay taxes that contribute back into society – even though they’ve benefitted from those very societal structures. It makes excuses for mistreatment of workers, the environment and even for the murder and torture of people. You’ve got the excuse part right, but it’s your party that’s the party of excuses. You’ve bought a lying bag of crap you twit!
“Two quick questions for you:
1.) Did Mom and Dad waste their hard earned $$ on your
“educationâ€? – You always manage to duck that “qâ€.”
You tell me – clearly I know more than me, so whoever paid certainly got more value than your family did…
“2.) Your responses seem to be EXTREMELY immature – sort of like my kids when they were 7 or 8. Go sit in the corner!”
Well I target my responses to my audience…
September 23rd, 2005 at 4:34 pm#99, I have no idea what’s going on. I was threatened with the Mossad and I haven’t even posted here.
September 23rd, 2005 at 4:35 pm“Mr. Messy – No, being a proud Mmerican I would never turn over our military to a foriegn entity – not even a dear “friendâ€.”
No you’re not, your politics clearly put the interests of israel over america – you’re judgement is as clouded as your arguments are. A zionist believes that they have supreme rights to the land of israel despite the fact that palestinians have been living there for 2 thousand years. This rigidness irrational right wing religious belief is just as terroristic and dangerous to the world as the islamicist movement. You are a zionist terrorist – I see you and osama as both part of the same radical agenda of substituting religious dogma and irrational argument for reason. And based on your arguments so far, I’d say you definitely are as irrational and unstable as Atta ever was.
September 23rd, 2005 at 4:37 pmTerry,
Aphrodite is trying to downplay the fact that Zionists are traitors to america. Heaven forbid she’d admit that they’ve arrested zionist pentagon employees who both spied for the Mossad, but also who supplied false intelligence to convince the military to attack Iraq. See Saddam was giving 10k to families of martyrs in palestine. The israelis (falsely) believed that if they got rid of this the bombings would all stop. They blamed Saddam for the Terrorism instead of realizing that their rigid and uncompromising mismanagement of the situation was creating the terrorism…
September 23rd, 2005 at 4:40 pmDown with extremists!
September 23rd, 2005 at 4:40 pmI dunno, it just seemed like a good
thing to say.
Zionists like Aphrodite are religious extremists and are a threat to world security. I don’t care if you’re a christian, islamic, jewish, hindu, buddhist or even athiest extremists – you are the treat!
September 23rd, 2005 at 4:42 pmI am a “recovering liberal†due to fact liberalism tries to negate the competitve side of human nature
Please come to California and do business with that assumption — we can always use another sucker!
September 23rd, 2005 at 4:42 pmThe problem with extremists is there’s no personal accountability. They always say the other side is uncompromising – and yet – there they are – uncompromising…
September 23rd, 2005 at 4:43 pm#103, so you mean that unequivocal support for Israel may not actually be in the interests of the United States? Wherever did you get that whacked out idea? You haven’t been travelling outside of the US talking to the reality-based community again have you?
September 23rd, 2005 at 4:48 pmmighty aphrodite,
Maybe you’re right (no pun intended). Maybe I don’t have an “inquitive mind.” “Inquitive?” Is this one of those new “non-word” words?
Though, I do believe that if you go through my posts on this site you will find that the overwhelming majority of them are constructive, goal oriented and as polite as possible. However, I must say that I’ve observed the exact opposite from the posts from you and your “colleagues.” Why is that? Is it that your minds are that much more “inquitive?â€
September 23rd, 2005 at 5:04 pmwar is peace
September 23rd, 2005 at 5:09 pmlove is hate
inquitive is ??????
And the sun slowly sets on another day in Oceana.
ex – Hippie – I live in San Diego – I know how business friendly California isn’t.
Terry – Sorry if you didn’t post – must be that counterfeiter, Mr. Messy!! – Aphrodite
Mr. Messy – I don’t believe in the “forced compassion” of progressives. Yes, I am selective in my charity – I try to give as much to groups who do the most. Keep up – I’ve told you I don’t support the death penalty…..tooo expensive!!! If I were your Mom, I’d ask for a refund – and I wouldn’t let you live at home.
September 23rd, 2005 at 5:13 pminteresting how this site get a picture of a former president, and tries to show that this represents ‘rich’ people. This is a former president, who still have security, I am sure he does get special attention, as I would wish for any past president.
having said that, I find it VERY DEPRESSING, that the people in public housing are still there!!!!!!!!! what is wrong with govt when they can’t evacuate the people with no cars, etc., after seeing what happened in Katrina.
September 23rd, 2005 at 5:13 pmElvi – I appreciate you correcting my spelling – as you well know (because of your high degree of intelligence) I meant “inquisitive”. Let me correct your grammar/spelling “I’ve scene a fair share….” I believe you meant “seen”. How “constructive” is it to say how much you hate the policies of our country and offer NO suggestions for improvement?
September 23rd, 2005 at 5:20 pm“I don’t believe in the “forced compassion†of progressives. ”
Just because you are a selfish person who has to force compassion – don’t accuse others of your limitations. No wonder you are no longer a ‘progressive’, clearly you never were a progressive – you’re the zionist zell miller…
“Yes, I am selective in my charity – I try to give as much to groups who do the most. ”
Then you should give to the federal government – it’s done more to relieve poverty than all charitable groups combined.
“Keep up – I’ve told you I don’t support the death penalty…..tooo expensive!!!”
And yet you have no problem with it’s ‘principles’, only its costs. You sure do fulfill the stereotype of a cheap republican – it’s impossible to imagine you ever were progressive. But then again, I’m sure that’s a lie like all the rest you’ve posted…
“If I were your Mom, I’d ask for a refund – and I wouldn’t let you live at home.”
Wow, it must be devastating for you to not be able to produce a single winning argument – is that why you feel the need to try to suggest my education was wasted? Well if I had a wasted education and I can continually show that you’re an illiterate boob – then clearly your rant is a projection of your own failures…
September 23rd, 2005 at 5:20 pm“How “constructive†is it to say how much you hate the policies of our country and offer NO suggestions for improvement?”
Actually we propose them all the time, but since you’re a propagandist you only speak and don’t listen. Don’t blame others for your skill deficiencies…
September 23rd, 2005 at 5:21 pmmighty aphrodite,
When you think of the death penalty, and whether its right or wrong, you make your decision based on cost?
Would you mind explaining this logic?
September 23rd, 2005 at 5:22 pm“interesting how this site get a picture of a former president, and tries to show that this represents ‘rich’ people. This is a former president, who still have security, I am sure he does get special attention, as I would wish for any past president.”
Interesting how this very statement IS classicism and you didn’t even notice it. The president is treated as a ’special class’ from others – and so are the wealthy in general. That’s the whole point…
September 23rd, 2005 at 5:23 pmAphrodite,
If you make the death penalty decision based on cost, then you should be pro abortion. When abortion became legalized, the number of unwanted births and unwanted children dropped. That contributed along with welfare to the drop in poverty.
The three pressures that increase poverty are a faltering economy (this always accompanies a republican), cuts in social programs (also always comes with a republican) and restricted access to information and treatments for birth control and abortion (also always comes with a republican). Your logic for why you make decisions seems schizophrenic and inconsistent – you should really up the dosage on those meds…
September 23rd, 2005 at 5:27 pmmighty aphrodite,
How are my post #86 and #51 not answers to your questions on what I think our “foreign policy” should be. Albeit, they are high level, and quickly written.
September 23rd, 2005 at 5:27 pmTerry,
I have been traveling :)
I spent August abroad – the rest of the world has a real handle on Aphrodite and the US… They’re much more even handed and rational than her terrorist buddies are. They realize the importance of a 2 state system that isn’t dictated by israel – that’s why there’s a UN resolution ( that Israel refuses to comply with) requiring a partitioning of the country.
September 23rd, 2005 at 5:29 pmElvis,
It doesn’t matter what you say to a zionist, they’re as clinically whacked as osama is. Come on, what kind of rational person licks their lips at torture? Only a loonie bin who doesn’t understand american values feels that way. Considering her heart is clearly in israel, then it’s easy to understand that she’s clueless on what american values actually are… She has middle eastern terrorist values – unfortunately just like the rest of her NeoCon neonazi friends…
September 23rd, 2005 at 5:31 pmNeD, again, why do you come here if you hate us? If it is because you think you can change us, which if that is the case, you are really going about it the wrong way. You are only alienating us.
Or, you just like to be angry and yell at folks who don’t agree with you.
Which one troll? Stand up.
September 23rd, 2005 at 5:33 pmRemember that the terrorist aphrodite believes torture is a good thing when you read this…
Torture is the infliction of severe physical or psychological pain as an expression of cruelty, a means of intimidation, deterrent or punishment, or as a tool for the extraction of information or confessions.
Torture is almost UNIVERSALLY considered to be an EXTREME VIOLATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS PRINCIPLES AND TRADITIONS SINCE THE ADVENT OF DEMOCRACY. Signatories of the Third Geneva Convention and Fourth Geneva Convention agree not to torture protected persons (enemy civilians and POWs) in armed conflicts, and signatories of the UN Convention Against Torture agree to not intentionally inflict severe pain or suffering on anyone, to obtain information or a confession, to punish them, or to coerce them or a third person. These conventions and agreements notwithstanding, it is estimated by organisations such as Amnesty International that around 2/3 of countries do not consistently abide by the spirit of such treaties.
September 23rd, 2005 at 5:38 pmProgressive,
I can answer that for NED, since he probably doesn’t even know why he’s the way he does about liberals – I’d say Aphrodite and her persecution complex also overlaps a bit.
Paranoid Personality Disorder as a pervasive distrust and suspiciousness of others such that their motives are interpreted as malevolent, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by four (or more) of the following:
* suspects, without sufficient basis, that others are exploiting, harming, or deceiving him or her;
* is preoccupied with unjustified doubts about the loyalty or trustworthiness of friends or associates;
* is reluctant to confide in others because of unwarranted fear that the information will be used maliciously against him or her;
* reads hidden demeaning or threatening meanings into benign remarks or events;
* persistently bears grudges, i.e., is unforgiving of insults , injuries, or slights perceives attacks on his or her character or reputation that are not apparent to others and is quick to react angrily or to counterattack;
* has recurrent suspicions, without justification, regarding fidelity of spouse or sexual partner.
September 23rd, 2005 at 5:41 pmAnd Progressive, here are some of the common personality traits that are part of this psychosis, and frankly explains much of the republican party and the zionist and terrorist tendencies.
PPD commonly expresses itself in the following personality traits.
suspiciousness, grandiosity, feelings of persecution, generalized hostility, querulousness, contentiousness, hyper-vigilance, oversensitivity to slights, “injustice collecting,” pathological jealousy, erotomania
arrogance, self-righteousness, angriness, feelings of inferiority, enviousness, mistrustfulness, humorlessness, emotional coldness, oversensitiveness, fearfulness of dependence, fearfulness of closeness, vengefulness, grudge-holding, drivenness, inability to sustain friendships, inability to become part of a “team,” lack of romantic interests, priggish aversion to sexual humor, extreme anxiety about sexual prowess, moralistic attitudes, over-scrupulosity, religious fanaticism, idiosyncratic moral system, readiness to lie and distort, hyper-vigilance, nit-picking, searching for evidence to back up irrational assumptions, lack of perspective, selective projective attention
angriness, bitterness, censoriousness, coldness, compulsiveness, over-controllingness, cynicism, dourness, enviousness, fastidiousness, grudge-holding, guardedness, humorlessness, hyper-criticalness, insecurity, intimidating, irritableness, judgmentalness, mistrustfulness, moralisticness, prissiness, reproachfulness, hatefulness, self-righteousness, unapproachableness, uncompassionateness, unsociableness
September 23rd, 2005 at 5:44 pmThose Rich White Guys In Charge are always safe…
September 23rd, 2005 at 5:47 pmI think it’s funny how the cons are always complaining that liberals don’t have any ideas and instead just spend time bashing their ideas.
You know what? There’s a good reason for that, cons: it’s because all of *your* ideas consist entirely of trying to dismantle and destroy, with no good reason, all the good ideas that we liberals had and put into place over 50 years ago.
We spend all our time trying to defend good, existing programs and laws against your “ideas” of “drowning” the country in the bathwater.
September 23rd, 2005 at 5:47 pmryan -
digging deep there arent we?
“The president is treated as a ’special class’ from others ”
as it should be.
September 23rd, 2005 at 5:49 pm“The president is treated as a ’special class’ from others â€
Ex-President – at this point he’s just a wealthy citizen who’s retired. And his family also received special treatment – that’s called royalty! You need to get a clue!
September 23rd, 2005 at 5:51 pmryan -
“and so are the wealthy in general.”
yet they couldnt find any rich people out of houston, so they had an ex-president ‘representing’ the rich.
September 23rd, 2005 at 5:53 pmDid anyone else read the NYT story that Bush is planning on riding out hurricane rita in Colorado. He is going to be at the Northern Command.
That chicken shit is using Rita as an excuse to not be in Washington tomorrow when the rally is going on. He ran from Vietnam, so what would you expect.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/23/national/nationalspecial/23bush.html
September 23rd, 2005 at 5:55 pm#131, Is FUBAR bringing his guitar?
September 23rd, 2005 at 6:02 pmHis guitar and he is inviting John McCain over for some cake.
September 23rd, 2005 at 6:05 pm“yet they couldnt find any rich people out of houston, so they had an ex-president ‘representing’ the rich.”
They certainly don’t represent the poor – and neither does this administration…
September 23rd, 2005 at 6:11 pmto the right of you,
“As it should be?” Are you serious? He (they) works for us! Why should he be a special class? Why not just create a monarchy then?
Freedom is not a privilege in this nation, it’s a right. You don’t need to work, or pay to be free here. Every person is just as free as the other. And if there are people in this nation who are “beneath” anyone else, it would have to be government employee’s, to include the so called “President.”
September 23rd, 2005 at 6:11 pm“Actually that’s conservatism does. It makes excuses for cheap people who don’t want to pay taxes that contribute back into society,” – Ryan Messy
Ryan, I am in the top tax bracket – from the woeful immaturity you display, I doubt you are – you’re probably a tax write off for MOM – and since I pay PLENTY in taxes I’ll thank you to just say “you’re welcome!’. And just imagine, I even have $$ left over after paying punitive federal and state taxes to donate to the (charities of MY choice) –
“Aphrodite is trying to downplay the fact that Zionists are traitors to america.” – Ryan Messy
September 23rd, 2005 at 6:17 pmAre you always wrong?? Zionists are not traitors – I Have said R-E-P-E-A-T-E-D-L-Y “Jonathan Pollard, convicted spy, belongs IN PRISON!!” Yet, I am DELIGHTED the Israelis had the CHUTZPAH to take out Saddam nuclear reactor. You’re wrong about how much Saddam paid Palestinian suicide murderers – look it up – preferably someplace other than move.on.org
AphroDingbat,
You claim we don’t have alternatives, and yet OUR systems already work as long as your republican inept leaders stop spending on the kleptocracy and actually allow those programs to function. The entitlement system has lifted 10s of millions of americans out of poverty. The social security system has effectively removed elder homelessness which used to plague america. The school lunch program has keept millions of kids from hunger. The federal public school system has educated millions of children through high school, whereas many only had access to 8 grades or less before its creation. The medicare system helps millions of seniors have healthcare, who otherwise used to die or go to ‘public’ hospitals only in the most dire life threatening and EXPENSIVE circumstances. Which brings me to public hospitals – another part of the LIBERAL programs that ensures people have health care who otherwise would die or suffer severly. The GI bill of rights which educated Rehnquist among others, who otherwise wouldn’t have been able to afford school. The federal loan and grant programs for higher education that have educated countless working class kids who’ve gone on to become productive professionals. Affirmative action which gave minorities opportunites (Like Justice Thomas) to prove their worth, who would not have qualified otherwise.
Just because you’re selfish and cheap, don’t say liberals don’t have ideas. The 20th century has been one populated by liberal ideas and successes. Whereas it’s been one of consistent failures and misery for administrations and countries who are run by conservatives.
Here’s a link to the ANTI-NEOCON group that is LOADED with suggestions on how to continue america’s successes and actually SOLVE the problems left in the country. If idiots like you would get out of the way of people who have both ideas and competence, we wouldn’t see all of the poverty we saw in New Orleans. You aren’t just a part of the problem at this point, you ARE the problem.
September 23rd, 2005 at 6:20 pmelvis -
you cant be serious. a monarchy? because i said a man that serves his country (in the most stressful position in the world, as evident by aging) should be given extra attention…WOW.
its one person.
September 23rd, 2005 at 6:20 pmHere’s the link for those interested.
http://www.newamerica.net/index.cfm?pg=article&DocID=163
This site like many other liberal ones are littered with new and innovative ideas. CONservative sites all contain the same stupid talking points and lemming arguments – I’m always amazed at how that contrasts with the creativity and brilliance of the liberals. CONservatives are truly unworthy to lead anything, especially the government!
September 23rd, 2005 at 6:21 pmAs long as we’re talking about dictators – GW has said on 3 separate occassions that he’d prefer to be a dictator. This man is unworthy to work for a democratic president, let alone be one!
“You don’t get everything you want. A dictatorship would be a lot easier.” Describing what it’s like to be governor of Texas.
(Governing Magazine 7/98)
– From Paul Begala’s “Is Our Children Learning?”
“I told all four that there are going to be some times where we don’t agree with each other, but that’s OK. If this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I’m the dictator,” Bush joked.
– CNN.com, December 18, 2000
“A dictatorship would be a heck of a lot easier, there’s no question about it, ” [Bush] said.
– Business Week, July 30, 2001
September 23rd, 2005 at 6:23 pmWhen I hear reichwingers I’m always reminded of the warning George Washington gave the country.
Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism.
September 23rd, 2005 at 6:24 pm~George Washington
Um, mighty aphrodite?
September 23rd, 2005 at 6:26 pmYou might want to stop now before you
reinforce EVERY elitist-right-wing-nutjob
stereotype known to man.
CC, Are you around?
“Ryan, I am in the top tax bracket – from the woeful immaturity you display, I doubt you are – you’re probably a tax write off for MOM – and since I pay PLENTY in taxes I’ll thank you to just say “you’re welcome!’.”
Did she really say that. In one sentence she proves our point about why she is a republican and shows off her elitist attitude.
Do mighty aphrodite, NeD and I-RIGHT-I realize that everytime they post, they are proving us right.
We are on here saying “So and so did something because they are a certain way.” and these losers jump on and say “No they aren’t.” Then go on to prove that what we said was right on the money.
The right should have better people trying to push there agendas, because their online troll program isn’t working all that well.
September 23rd, 2005 at 6:32 pmRyan, you forgot this one: http://mkanejeeves.com/?p=137
“Power is being President”, Bush scoffed.
September 23rd, 2005 at 6:34 pm“Ryan, I am in the top tax bracket – from the woeful immaturity you display, I doubt you are ”
Actually I’ve made out quite well under this administration – thank you, unfortunately others have suffered. I don’t need the money, but the people do.
Woeful immaturity is best described by those who are uncharitable in the face of suffering – that would be you…
September 23rd, 2005 at 6:38 pmAnd this one: Remember this classic quote as noted by Bob Woodward in his book “Bush at War,†from November 19, 2002?
BUSH: “I’m the commander — see, I don’t need to explain — I do not need to explain why I say things. That’s the interesting thing about being the president. Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why they say something, but I don’t feel like I owe ANYbody an explanation.â€
Drunk with power….
September 23rd, 2005 at 6:40 pmto the right of you,
Yes, I’m serious.
The “most stressful position in the world?” I’m throwing the B.S. flag on that one. How is sucking up, kissing ass, and simply doing what your told stressful?
How about the mother of 3 who works 3 jobs to support her family? How about air traffic controllers? Brain surgeon? Hell, how about even long distance truck drivers?
“A man who serves his country.” How about a man who rapes his country and the world (the lot of them, former presidents)? Serving your country is no more noble or honorable then mopping the gym floor at any public high school (that is not a knock against janitors, it’s a compliment, they have an important job).
Noble is a person who facilitates world peace; who saves people from starvation; who destroys the race and class barriers… these are NOT the leaders of this land, and never have been.
September 23rd, 2005 at 6:40 pmYou know Spudge-Boy,
They can hind the “real-them” for a while,
September 23rd, 2005 at 6:41 pmbut then they get mad because someone
talks back “to their betters” and you
get the real deal.
Sort-of like a fatal personal flaw in a Greek tragedy
or something….
I’m what’s dubbed a ‘liberal elite’ by the right. Like Soros, I personally do quite well with the american reichwing agenda – but that’s a fleeting benefit. The fact is I care not JUST for myself, but for my country – unlike the other Zionists here who only care about themselves and israel.
As an american and a patriot I can find the balance in protecting my own interest with the interests of my community and my country. That’s called being an ‘integrated person’ – something you clearly are deficient in both understanding and executing. See republicans always talk about ‘personal responsibility’, but for them it’s code for I’m cheap, greedy and selfish and you should be too, and if you starve, so what, I’ve got mine, screw you. See I believe that personal responsibility doesn’t end at my bank account, but that I’m also responsible to ensure that the society that gave me such great opportunities are also enriched – that’s being personally responsible for my community…
See I’m an actual adult human being, not a selfish child like you who has no comprehension of what being an adult means…
September 23rd, 2005 at 6:43 pmmighty aphrodite,
#138 = Ego = Pride
Self-delusion breeds pride, pride breeds the inability to learn.
September 23rd, 2005 at 6:46 pmElvis,
You are the man! And so right!
September 23rd, 2005 at 6:50 pmYou know Ryan,
Something you said is worth discussing
September 23rd, 2005 at 6:53 pmfurther: giving back.
Sure, doing well has a lot to do with personal
effort, intelligence and other factors, but
the OPPORTUNITY offered by the American
system cannot be minimized. Sometimes it is
very direct, like laws that favor an industry.
Whether “bought” from a corrupt politician
or just a good idea all around, such a law
often makes some people very wealthy.
What is so wrong about giving back to perpetuate
the process?
Maybe next time it will be research grant that
allows someone to solve a medical problem and get
rich.
Maybe building a school that allows less wealthy
people be successful?
Or levees that keep people from drowning?
Why do the rich deserve more?
Why should renters subsidize my house?
Are people so greedy that they never have enough
like mighty aphrodite?
elvis -
you are laughable, your comment doesnt deserve a response, to think that a presidency isnt the most stressful job, is quite laughable.
FYI – look at pics before they become president, then look at them after, they age in dog years.
but thats your OPINION, and I cant prove that wrong.
September 23rd, 2005 at 6:54 pmI heard waiting tables is very stressful.
September 23rd, 2005 at 6:56 pmI also found it was, especially when you
had a bunch of tables and the kitchen
was slow.
“Then you should give to the federal government – it’s done more to relieve poverty than all charitable groups combined.” – Ryan Messy
Ryan, I already “donate” 1/3 of my income to fulfill a federal civic obligation – how much more would you like to grab from my pocket – the amount Sweden confiscates? France? England? Canada? For all the $$ we’ve spent on poverty programs, I would say we’re getting a pretty sh%$ty return on our investment. Only modern progressives would condemn the poor to living in projects and pat themselves on the back for their “compassion”. Liberals love to see poor people “need” them – especially when it comes time to vote.
You promote abortion as a way to make sure children are wanted. Ask a kid who’s been adopted if they would rather be aborted. Most aborion is about selfish convenience.
“The federal public school system has educated millions of children through high school, whereas many only had access to 8 grades or less before its creation” What federal school system? The 8th grade test to pass into high school (given in 1899) was much more difficult than the majority of high school idiots we’re graduating today – look it up.
Elvis , Thank you for asking a reasonable question.
“When you think of the death penalty, and whether its right or wrong, you make your decision based on cost?
Would you mind explaining this logic?”
September 23rd, 2005 at 6:57 pmYou may have missed in Ryan’s obfuscation the fact that I have said (repeatedly)I was against the death penalty because it was unevenly applied. I do not think it is fair for rich murderers to “plead out” while poor or poorly represented defendants get the death penalty. I have supported Barry Scheck’s “Innocence Project” as a way of exhonorating those wrongly convicted. I DO believe that life in prison (LWOP) is worse punishment than the death penalty. I also believe the millions of dollars in costs pursuing the death penalty would be better spent helping victims of crime. But that just goes to show how conservatives lack compassion.
“You promote abortion as a way to make sure children are wanted. Ask a kid who’s been adopted if they would rather be aborted. Most aborion is about selfish convenience.”
Ask a kid in an orphanage, in a foster home or on the streets…
And yet you managed to completely miss the point – as you always do. Oh well, so much for your reading comprehension. I would hope your legal clients and bosses get a better quality out of you than this site does, otherwise you’re severely overcharging.
You made the statement that you believe that capital punishment is wrong because of the expense. I point out that if your reasoning were consistent you would be pro abortion. Now your reasoning is one of ‘compassion’, which you show none of with capital punishment. And hence you prove my assessment that you suffer from a severe case of moral relativism and self righteous hypocrisy.
September 23rd, 2005 at 7:02 pmelvis -
actually, i will respond, this will be fun:
“How about the mother of 3 who works 3 jobs to support her family?”
that would be very stressful. now lets look at our ‘dad’ — the office of the president: 330million ‘kids’ to take care of, 24/7 on-call support for job. make decisions that not only affects 3 kids, but BILLIONS.
“How about air traffic controllers?”
stressful, maybe, dont know too much about it. its humorous of you to try to say this is a more stressful position than president, ie. leader of the ‘free world’. (see above)
“Brain surgeon?”
stressful, yes. with the money they make, i would love to be stressed by patients, half the week…they dont work everyday of the week…or did this fact pass you as your struggled to prove your point?
“how about even long distance truck drivers?”
stressful, yes, but as humorous (in comparision to the office of the president) as the brain surgeon one.
September 23rd, 2005 at 7:03 pmAfterthought – Congratulations – your name fits (I’m not being facetious.) A quick question re: – “…but
September 23rd, 2005 at 7:04 pmthe OPPORTUNITY offered by the American
system cannot be minimized. Sometimes it is
very direct, like laws that favor an industry.
Whether “bought†from a corrupt politician
or just a good idea all around, such a law
often makes some people very wealthy.” Please don’t tell me you believe that ONLY Repubs are corrupt – there’s enough corruption and pork to be claimed and denounced in both major parties.
“Ryan, I already “donate†1/3 of my income to fulfill a federal civic obligation – how much more would you like to grab from my pocket”
Confiscates – and how much of that salary you earn is a direct result of the federal government infrastructure? The money they spent on schools to educate you. The police they provided to give you a safe childhood.
Go to guatemala and see how happy you are about what that money buys you.
” – the amount Sweden confiscates? ”
And yet the average sweden says they are happier than americans when polled. They also have no poverty to speak of. And they still have a vibrant middle and upperclass. You spew your venom out like it’s an awful thing, and yet it appears to work very well.
“France? England? Canada? For all the $$ we’ve spent on poverty programs, I would say we’re getting a pretty sh%$ty return on our investment. ”
Actually poverty programs have only cost 800 billion since the mid 1970s. Iraq has already cost 200 billion. Katrina allocation is already at 200 billion, you’re already half way there. And we spend approximately 400 billion a year on the military. I’d say we got a hell of a lot out of our paltry investment. But then again, I’m sure you didn’t actually check your facts before you made this ridiculous and unfounded claim either.
“Only modern progressives would condemn the poor to living in projects and pat themselves on the back for their “compassionâ€. Liberals love to see poor people “need†them – especially when it comes time to vote.”
Well if republicans would stop undermining the poverty programs like Reagan, BushI and BushII has, most of those would go away. The reality is that poor people lived in worse conditions before the projects – and that’s why they were built you moronic twit. Since you’re clearly unpatriotic, I’m not surprised you know nothing of american history or the war on poverty… Stop pretending you do, and go back to defending israel. Even though you clearly don’t know anything about it, at least that’s where your loyalties lie.
September 23rd, 2005 at 7:10 pmRightOfYou,
The flaw in your logic is that you believe bush actually does anything. I have friends who work for the bureau, he spends most of his time in naps, or bored in meetings that he rubber stamps. He’s a moronic twit, and any aging is coming from him hitting the bottle, not from any actual work.
Ever noticed that everytime there’s an emergency he’s always on a bikeride or vacation? That’s not an accident.
September 23rd, 2005 at 7:11 pmHey Mighty,
“Afterthought – Congratulations – your name fits (I’m not being facetious.) A quick question re: – “…but”
This is not coherent. I have no idea what you are talking
about.
“Please don’t tell me you believe that ONLY Repubs are corrupt – there’s enough corruption and pork to be claimed and denounced in both major parties.”
Do you often read things that are not there?
September 23rd, 2005 at 7:12 pmDid I say REPUBLICAN anywhere?
Is your paranoia showing?
“Please don’t tell me you believe that ONLY Repubs are corrupt – there’s enough corruption and pork to be claimed and denounced in both major parties.”
Comparing the difference between democratic and republican corruption, is like comparing the 50,000 insider trading of Martha Stewart to the billions of Enron…
The fact that martha did what she did, doesn’t put her on the scale of massive fraud that the republicans consistently operate on…
September 23rd, 2005 at 7:13 pmAnd to re-iterate the successes of these supposedly bad poverty programs of democrats lets look at the following numbers:
Poverty before welfare – 19%
Poverty when reagan took office – 11% (steady decline)
Poverty when Reagan/BushII left office – 13% (sharp increase)
Poverty when Clinton left office – 12.3% (healthy decline)
Poverty today – 12.7% (steady increase)
You say poverty programs don’t work, and yet they were working marvelously until the fascists/neofascists/neocons took over. They poison the well, underfund the system, and then send propagandists to lie about it not working… It’s smears and propaganda – and nothing more. The numbers show that in fact the only thing that doesn’t work is a republican administration…
September 23rd, 2005 at 7:18 pm“I DO believe that life in prison (LWOP) is worse punishment than the death penalty. ”
Tell that to an innocent person and their family that has been executed. You’re such an immoral twit Aphrodingey!
September 23rd, 2005 at 7:20 pmryan -
you hate the man, and that is unfortunate, cause hates blocks your logic.
1. he rides his bike everyday…so yes, if an emergency happens ANY DAY (he will be riding his bike).
2. what emergency happened while he was on vacation, besides the Katrina Hurricane?
the guy has lost alot of support from me, but my logic remains in tact.
September 23rd, 2005 at 7:21 pm“1. he rides his bike everyday…so yes, if an emergency happens ANY DAY (he will be riding his bike).”
Those are obviously long bike rides as emergencies continually seem to happen when he’s on one.
“2. what emergency happened while he was on vacation, besides the Katrina Hurricane? ”
Lets just pick a republican declared one – I believe Schiavo is a great example.
September 23rd, 2005 at 7:24 pm“the guy has lost alot of support from me, but my logic remains in tact.”
If your logic was intact, you never would be a republican… The fact that you are disqualifies any possibility that it is. Republicans are about fear, greed and power – nothing is logical about republican stances tnat undermine democracy, freedom, economic stability and the health and welfare of the country. You’re deluding yourself into believing you use logic – nothing you’ve posted here has ever been about logic, it’s all been about loyalty (or had you missed that fact).
September 23rd, 2005 at 7:25 pmryan -
“Poverty when Reagan/BushII left office – 13% (sharp increase)”
why didnt you post reagan’s numbers seperately?…i know why, and if your gonna post them together, why not the clinton/bush years?
(i dont have exact stats at this time, but i will find them, if you want me to)
the poverty rate under reagan rose until 1983 (end of recession)…every year after that it went down…i think until 1989 (our next recession).
post facts, not fables.
September 23rd, 2005 at 7:28 pmMighty aphrodite, my girl! Its me, Joe, with the cheap pissy beer as you called it. I really like your posts. (Really, in all seriousness.) That said, I would like you to know that I believe you when you say you are in the top tax bracket. And well educated too. I can tell it in the smug way you throw your words around and cheap-shot the average liberal here.
But correct me if I’m wrong, honey, but if you are paying any REAL taxes as you say you are, you need to get your shit together, as we said in the army. Call Dick Cheney and ask him his secret. In 2004, he made $1,328,678 and paid $393,518 in Federal taxes. That is more than enough for him to squeeze by on, ya think?
I’d still like to get into your pants, if I-Right-I doesn’t beat me to it.
September 23rd, 2005 at 7:29 pmryan -
i am not republican, LOL — on conservative sites, i post as ‘to the left of you’ The last election, I voted more 3rd party, than the big 2.
schiavo is not an emergency, not in my book…and lest not forget, it was August, or is that too political for you?
September 23rd, 2005 at 7:30 pmto the right of you,
Let me start with this: The president of The United States is NOT our “dad.” And if he’s your “dad” then he’s the biggest dead beet child abuser on the planet.
You’re trying to tell me that this silver spoon fed, draft dodging, political, business and personal failure of a man holds the most stressful job in the world? AND YOU PUT HIM IN OFFICE?
If you think that job is stressful, then you clearly don’t know anything about it, or who he truly serves. The only thing he cares about in regards to the children of this nation’s education is making sure it remains minimal so his army is well staffed.
If he’s taking care of 330 million kids, then where was he after Katrina hit? Why wasn’t he down there in his own car, or spending his own money to get these people out, if he truly cares?
The only thing he cares about in regards to the “3 billion” kids in the world is seeing how many he can exterminate. He supports depopulation. But then, I bet you don’t know what that term means in today’s political world.
September 23rd, 2005 at 7:34 pmRightOfYou,
“why didnt you post reagan’s numbers seperately?…i know why, and if your gonna post them together, why not the clinton/bush years?”
And you’d be wrong about that assumption. I lumped Bush and Reagan together because the poverty consistently got worse in both administration.
The average number of people living under the poverty line during the eight years of the Reagan administration was 33.1 million, 25 percent more than the 26.2 milion living in poverty during the previous administration.
The net effect was that Reagan left his administration with more poor people, than there were when he arrived, despite the fact that poverty had been decreasing under every previous administration including carter.
September 23rd, 2005 at 7:35 pm“schiavo is not an emergency, not in my book…and lest not forget, it was August, or is that too political for you?”
That’s might french of him to take august off, don’t you think? He’s already taken more vacations in
September 23rd, 2005 at 7:36 pmelvis -
the ‘dad’ analogy was just that, an analogy. to go with your ‘mom’.
i didnt put him in office. i voted 3rd party ticket.
“The only thing he cares about in regards to the children of this nation’s education is making sure it remains minimal so his army is well staffed.”
BRILLIANT, dont you think??? you are serious, arent you? — so explain to me, why isnt this plan working? why are we short in recruitments? he needs to change his plan, cause it aint working.
depopulation, yeah i know what that means…its getting to the 500 million people the UN says could live on this planet with no threat to it.
September 23rd, 2005 at 7:38 pmFUBAR Bush, the “french” President.
September 23rd, 2005 at 7:45 pmI think it fits.
Let me explain poverty to you ‘RightOfMe’. There are two separate factors that affect poverty.
1) A recession or improving economy tends to affect poverty rates by increasing or decreasing available entry level jobs.
2) The entitlement system if well funded can help be move up the ladder even with bad economic situations.
When you cut item 2 to ineffectiveness, then item 1 is all that stands in the way of the working poor between being in poverty and not. Before reagan, the system was well funded enough that poverty rates dropped even in tought economic times. After reagan the system was largely dependent on the economy as the engine and therefore there was a net loss in effectiveness as more people were in poverty after each successive republican administration.
Now clinton improved some aspects of the entitlement, but he didn’t go far enough, and junior has either gutted or undermined every program he can, so the number of people in poverty has gone up steadily in this administration.
I was wrong about one of my numbers above and I apologize. It was reagan who was at 13% when it left office, BushI was at 15% having almost erased all gains in poverty from the previous 20 years because of their ineptitude…
September 23rd, 2005 at 7:45 pmAh, Mourning in Amurika!
September 23rd, 2005 at 7:48 pmryan -
what were the poverty rates in 1981-1989?
September 23rd, 2005 at 7:50 pmGee “to the right of you”,
You seem REALLY keyed in on ol’
September 23rd, 2005 at 7:53 pmRonny “I had no idea there was an illegal arms
operation in my basement” Reagan.
You a big fan?
ryan -
these are approximates, because the census website is down.
1973: 11.1
September 23rd, 2005 at 7:56 pm1974: 11.2
1975: 12.4
1976: 11.8
1977: 11.6
1978: 11.4
1979: 11.7
1980: 13
1981: 14 (when reagan took office)
1982: 15
1983: 15.2
1984: 14.4
1985: 13.6
1986: 14
1987: 13.4
1988: 13.1
1989: 12.8 (when he left)
actually I did well during the Reagan adminstration, and most people I know did too. I voted for reagan, but his 2nd term was the biggining of the end of my support for the gop. The iran-contra was the biggining of the fascist taking over, taking advantage of Reagans dementia. Bush is not republican, he is a fascist and so are his followers including the leming trolls who post here. these guys make Reagan seem so moderate by comparison.
September 23rd, 2005 at 7:56 pmafter –
no fan of reagan, i was too young, but i do know FACTS, as posted above.
i could complain about some illegal stuff he did, yes…but ryan posted faulty poverty numbers, and i had to correct him.
September 23rd, 2005 at 7:57 pmif you are younger than me – and you cheerlead for the fascist – why is not your ass in Iraq?
September 23rd, 2005 at 7:58 pmduh -
i do not cheerlead for a facist. i look at issues…if you want to talk iraq, lets talk. but just because i provided facts about an issue does not make me a cheerleader…unless your are of course afraid of the facts.
September 23rd, 2005 at 8:00 pmnot at all. but I appreciate an open mind and facts are facts. too many Bush followers ignore facts.
September 23rd, 2005 at 8:05 pmDo you believe that anyone fighting in Iraq is fighting afor a noble cause? If so – please tell.
Facts please not feeling. cause from where I am we were lied to it(though I never bought it), intel was twisted (office of special ops). Bush wanted in before 911 (downing street memos). if it was for oil, and we immorally killed for oil – at least we should be getting the benefit – but I paid 3.15 a gallon this morning. so pray tell why you support fascist?
to the right of you,
I do believe that duhgopmustend asked a very specific and straight forward question: Why is your ass not in Iraq?
Are you afraid to answer? Curious.
September 23rd, 2005 at 8:06 pmduh -
the noble cause thing…let me explain my position on iraq.
i dont think we should have went into iraq. i can see why they did, but i dont agree with it.
i dont think that it has made us safer at this point. however, i do think that we wont be able to tell if this was a good thing or not for decades to come.
i think our pentagon and president made huge mistakes in strategizing this war. and have yet to admit it, nor change the way they operate.
i do believe that we should withdraw in a slow process…which in my opinion (from the iraqi troop numbers, etc.) should take place very soon.
‘we were lied to’ — yes, in a sense, we were given one view of intelligence as it was hyperbolized, and old intel was presented as new…and we blocked from hearing the other side of things.
September 23rd, 2005 at 8:19 pmelvis -
i am not in iraq because:
i didnt sign up to join the military.
why arent you there?
September 23rd, 2005 at 8:20 pm#143- “Did she really say that. In one sentence she proves our point about why she is a republican and shows off her elitist attitude. ” – SpongeBoy
Yes, Sponge, I DID say that – only to cleary demonstrate that many public sponges are ingrates. I think paying (in combined taxes) 50% of my hard earned income is more than plenty!!! I don’t depend on entitlement programs to care for me or mine – so get your hand out of my pocket. ( I do use the roads – but I pay for them, OK?)
Mercifully, I value education – so I chose NOT to send my kids to PUBLIC SCHOOL – in the grand tradition of your beloved Northeastern “limousine liberals”. California schools have been circling the bowl for a long time – but dumbing students down (sadly) has been an ongoing process.
“And yet the average sweden says they are happier than americans when polled. They also have no poverty to speak of. And they still have a vibrant middle and upperclass. You spew your venom out like it’s an awful thing, and yet it appears to work very well.” – Messy
I’m GLAD their happy – but they don’t have the tax structure to support their give away programs – read P.J. O’Rourke’s “Eat the Rich” – most hilarious chapter on Sweden!!!!
Joe, Dick Cheney must have more tax loop holes than me!! But you’re right, maybe I should have someone new do my taxes and schedules. Thanks!!
September 23rd, 2005 at 8:20 pm“I’d still like to get into your pants, if I-Right-I doesn’t beat me to it.” – Joe Sixpack — September 23
Sorry, Joe, it might be a little crowded in my pants with my adoring, brilliant, handsome husband in there, too.
Messy- A final question for the evening – does a loyal, patriotic American, such as yourself, owe their allegance to the United States 0r the United Nations? A simple answer will do.
September 23rd, 2005 at 8:27 pmThese are the numbers you were looking for
1964 19.0
September 23rd, 2005 at 8:34 pmWouldn’t lowering the poverty rate provide more revenue for the government? So if we lower poverty, we could feed the Republicans more tax cuts. Slash the national debt, and we can cut taxes even more. Why on earth would they be against those things? And then complain about rich people paying 80% of the taxes? Get the folks out of poverty and they can take some of the load of your back, buddy!
Tax cuts don’t make anyone rich who isn’t already. Not at our current rates. It’s asinine. I don’t care if I’m not winning over the conservatives. If they can make liberal a dirty word, I can do the same for them.
Maybe we should offer a lifetime tax amnesty, the only condition being you can never participate in the political process in any way. That would shake out the wingnuts. No representation without taxation. You pay to play. That’s life.
Republicans repealed the death tax and replaced it with the birth tax. Every baby born in this country today is born owing $51,000 plus bond rate interest. We don’t need to win over that kind of thinking. We need to ridicule it into extinction, before it destroys us.
Tax tax tax. That’s how you talk their language. Win them over with a conciliatory jester. A few more bonehead moves from this crew and nobody will admit to being a conservative. If you really want to insult someone call them a Bush Conservative.
September 23rd, 2005 at 8:36 pm“Messy- A final question for the evening – does a loyal, patriotic American, such as yourself, owe their allegance to the United States 0r the United Nations? A simple answer will do.”
You could ask yourself a similar question. Does a loyal californian like yourself owe your allegiance to california or the united states?
That’s a strawman question as you can see, and the idea that these are mutually exclusive, or that being a part of one doesn’t support being the part of another makes no sense. However when you compare Israel vs. United states – these are in fact to separate state systems (well they were before the NeoCons), and this is a different argument.
Understanding this requires mastering of logic and recognition of ambiguity – and you haven’t exhibited that you possess either skill, so I don’t expect a rational response from you on this either…
September 23rd, 2005 at 8:37 pmWow Afro, you just keeping digging.
September 23rd, 2005 at 8:37 pmWho was it that said if you find yourself
in a hole….
How wierd, the posting got truncated. Lets try this again.
1964 19.0
September 23rd, 2005 at 8:37 pmHow wierd, the posting got truncated. Lets try this again. I removed the characters that seemed to be getting confused with html.
1964 19.0 – Johnson�s Great Society begins
September 23rd, 2005 at 8:39 pm1965 17.3
1966 14.7
1967 14.2
1968 12.8
1969 12.1
1970 12.6 – recession year
1971 12.5
1972 11.9
1973 11.1
1974 11.2 – recession year
1975 12.3 – recession year
1976 11.8 – individual benefits level off, decline
1977 11.6
1978 11.4
1979 11.7
1980 13.0 – recession year
1981 14.0 – Reagan-era cuts in individual benefits
1982 15.0 – recession year
1983 15.2
1984 14.4
1985 14.0
1986 13.6
1987 13.4
1988 13.0
1989 12.8
1990 13.5 – recession year
1991 14.2 – recession year
1992 14.8
1993 15.1
Hey cynical,
September 23rd, 2005 at 8:39 pmStop making sense, it confuses the trolls!
elvis -
i asked you a simple question.
why arent you in iraq?
September 23rd, 2005 at 8:40 pmAnd as for Presidents taking vacations, it’s a 4 year job. The least you can do is go 4 years without an extended vacation. A few days off here and there, sure, but you don’t take on the most difficult, complicated, high stakes job in the world thinking you can coast through it and take the month of August off.
McClellan publicly dismissed the notion that Bush can govern as effectively from Crawford as he can from Washington. So all Bush’s supporters can stop repeating that.
The harder I work, the luckier I get, and Bush sure has not been very lucky, has he?
Criminey, put off that fishing trip a few years. Your legacy will thank you.
September 23rd, 2005 at 8:43 pmI’m too old myself.
September 23rd, 2005 at 8:45 pmI also recognized it as a scam early on
so I would not likely volunteer, but
I support our troops 100%. I think they
are brave and loyal and want them to
have the best equipment and medical care (if they need it)
and an education upon their return.
It is the FUBAR administration I don’t support.
BTW, right-wingers, how dare you put FUBAR on the
same signs and stickers that say “support
the troops”. Like it is a package deal with a
scum-bag politician. Shame on you.
How come no one asked me why I’m not in Iraq? :(
September 23rd, 2005 at 8:48 pmOh just answer anyway.
September 23rd, 2005 at 8:49 pmNo one asked me either.
after -
lol. he’s right – go ahead.
September 23rd, 2005 at 8:49 pmto the right of you,
I did my four years in the Marine Corps. 94-98.
Biggest mistake of my life.
September 23rd, 2005 at 8:51 pmelvis -
i see…understood. much respect for your courage.
i’m off work — have a good weekend everyone!!
September 23rd, 2005 at 8:54 pm“I think paying (in combined taxes) 50% of my hard earned income is more than plenty!!! I don’t depend on entitlement programs to care for me or mine – so get your hand out of my pocket. ( I do use the roads – but I pay for them, OK?)”
Lets see where your money is going, shall we?
Half of the taxes are spent on present and past military expenses (past being % of debt cause by military spending).
The middle class programs of medicare, medicaid and social security are insurance systems that you and your family either currently will probably someday use. You probably don’t use your car insurance either, but if you have a wreck you’ll need it. Just like it’s reasonable to require you to have car insurance, old age and old age health insurance for the middle class is a reasonable requirement.
Lets also not forget what else the government spends your taxes on. Schools to ensure you, your children and everyone in america has access to education. Surely someone in your family benefitted from public education, even if it is through subsidies to your university (assuming you attended one). Then lets talk about air traffic control, police, FBI, CIA, NSA, NASA, Coast Guard, National Guard and any number of other benefits. Lets talk about the EPA that is SUPPOSED to protect the environment, the CDC that protects from disease, the FDA that is SUPPOSED to protect us from fraudulent medicines. Then lets talk about the shipping and port managers, labor boards to protect workers from exploitation and of course the legal and prison system. How about the GI bill that lets the military who served afford an education. Or the departments of Agriculture, Commerce, Energy, Interior, Transportation, Army Corps Engineers, NSF, FCC that you use daily even though you’re ignorant of the fact.
The reality is that you are using these services daily, and just because you are unaware of the fact doesn’t mean you don’t benefit from them. In fact the wealthier the person, typically the more ‘value’ they receive from each and every department available. For instance a poor person who doesn’t have a car still has to subsidize freeways. A poor person who doesn’t fly still subsidizes air flight.
The problem with aphrodite is the same problem that pretty much all republicans face. They are ignorant of how spoiled, priveleged and generally exploitive they are. They burden less percentage of the burden relative to their ability to pay it. Even if you take away 50% of wages of someone making 200k, they have 100k of hard cold cash to live on – that’s 8k a month. Many americans don’t make that much money before tax in a whole year that you make in a month, and yet they still must pay SSI, and a host of other mandatory taxes…
“Joe, Dick Cheney must have more tax loop holes than me!! But you’re right, maybe I should have someone new do my taxes and schedules. Thanks!!”
Well don’t blame liberals on the fact that you’re too stupid to look for a tax break. I benefit tremendously from the loopholes without trying – you have to be an utter moron to bitch about 50% tax rate. No one but an utter idiot pays that much in this country. Then again, you repeatedly demonstration that you are a fool despite your supposed education. You clearly need a refund!
September 23rd, 2005 at 8:58 pmThis is a very well written piece by Dr. Robert M. Bowman, Lt. Col., USAF, retired – especially the reichwingers who seem to daft to see reality as it truly is.
Advocates of social justice are often accused of engaging in class warfare. The truth is that class warfare is indeed being waged, but not by us. It is being waged against us, indeed against 90% of the people in this country, by the wealthy few, the corporate owners, the bondholders, the oligarchy.
The Reagan revolution was a major battle in that war, and we lost. The war on poverty became the war on the poor, then on even the middle class. The worst of it is that the working people don’t even understand that they’ve been attacked, plundered, chewed up and spit out by the oligarchs. Let’s look at some facts.
At the beginning of the Reagan era, the richest one percent of Americans owned a little under 20% of the country’s assets. Now, they own well over 40%. We are always told that there are so few rich people that if you spread their wealth around it wouldn’t make any difference (except to them). What a colossal lie! If the wealth of this country was divided equally among us, every American family would get over a quarter of a million dollars!
The rich are getting richer. During the 80s, the total wages of those earning a million dollars or more a year shot up an average of 243% — per year! The average corporate CEO now rakes in about four million a year, about three-fourths of which is in stock options and other tax-sheltered compensation.
Meanwhile, the poor and middle class are getting poorer. Incomes have declined since the 1960s, and the trend is accelerating. Until 1980 the war on poverty was slowly being won. The number of families in poverty was going down. But the Reagan revolution changed that, and the fraction of our people who live in poverty is increasing rapidly, especially for children and minorities. This in spite of the fact that productivity has shot up dramatically. Based on productivity gains, we all ought to be working ten hours a week yet enjoying the same standard of living we had in the 1950s. Obviously, that’s not happening. In 1952, the average factory worker had to work one day to earn the closing costs for a brand new home in Levittown, PA. In 1991, it took the average factory worker (if he was lucky enough to have a job) 126 days to earn the closing costs on the same (now 40-year old) house. What’s worse, the average factory worker (never mind service and retail workers) doesn’t earn enough to qualify for a mortgage on that 40-year old tract house. Home ownership is declining as the American dream is rapidly becoming a nightmare for the younger generation. The net worth of the median non-home owner American family is about three thousand dollars. That’s middle class?
How did all this happen? How did the gap between the rich and poor in this country become the worst in the world — even worse than Mexico and Brazil? The ultimate answer, of course, is power. The big multinational corporations have become more powerful than any government, and indeed dictate the policies of many governments. They dominate most political parties (including both major parties in this country), and own the major media, allowing them to mold public opinion and manipulate the people. But in this article, I am not addressing ultimate answers. I am dealing with the specific mechanisms they use to pump money from all levels of society up to their own. There are three of these mechanisms: wages, debt, and taxes.
September 23rd, 2005 at 9:09 pm“I don’t depend on entitlement programs to care for me or mine – so get your hand out of my pocket.”
I am in a very high tax bracket myself. I am just not a cvnt about it.
“but dumbing students down (sadly) has been an ongoing process.”
No CHild Left Behind goes a long way to help dumb down students.
Oh yeah, good job with the “Sponge” Pretty original for somebody that puts a high value on education.
September 23rd, 2005 at 9:10 pmWait, ask me why I’m not in Iraq (currently).
September 23rd, 2005 at 9:13 pmI want to know why aphrodite or her children or brothers/sisters aren’t there. After all, if it’s a war to defend israel, and you have 2 countries to protect, it would seem they need you! Or do you prefer to let poor inner city and rural christian boys die for you, so you can sit in your office on your fat lazy ass while they die for you? Is THAT what you pay your high taxes for? Because it surely isn’t to help those poor kids get out of poverty. If you think spending 800 billion over 40 years (only 20 billion a year) is somehow undermining your life – when the budget is over 100 times that size (eg. less than 1 percent of the budget), then you’re clearly even more witless than I thought.
September 23rd, 2005 at 9:34 pmex – Hippie – I live in San Diego – I know how business friendly California isn’t.
Comment by mighty aphrodite — September 23, 2005 @ 5:13 pm
Hyper-competitive, but definitely not friendly if you make mistakes. Sorry if you couldn’t make it here! But those who can compete do very well.
I’ll take our blue state economy over any red state any day of the week.
September 23rd, 2005 at 9:39 pmCalifornia is fine to do business in if you know how to run a company. My company his been in business in CA for 20 years. We were forced out of our building.
Because we needed a bigger building.
September 23rd, 2005 at 9:49 pmAnd aphrodite brings up sweden and asks would we prefer an outrageous tax rate like they have. At the highest bracket, sweden has 55%. Now interestingly enough she/he shows her utter ignorance of america, its history, or its taxes. The largest economic boom in american history occurred when its higest tax bracket was 90%. In the 1980’s Ronald Reagan ushered in a new era in American economics as he cut the top tax bracket from 70% down to 50% and then down again to 28%.
The cheap taxes for the rich is a recent event, and now they feel entitled to not pay any taxes despite the fact they benefit the most from our very liberal and civil society. They also claim that high taxes negatively affects the economy, yet history has REPEATEDLY shown that increases of taxes on the wealthy causes them to go looking for tax shelters and thereby take risky and often great investments. The second largest boom in recent history occurred when Clinton INCREASED taxes. The tax cuts to the wealthy by bush is what caused the deep recession, and his witlessness is propped up by people who are addicted to low taxes like a bad meth habit. It feels good to them, despite the fact that it’s destroying the entire country… Petty, selfish, greedy, self absorbed and childish – that is the modern american right wing…
September 23rd, 2005 at 9:57 pmSpudge, It’s no accident that California is the 6th largest economy in the world. Red State values undermine economic stability. When you slant the playing field in the favor of ‘big business’, you undermine small business which offers a much more stable and broad economic base. The reality is that republicans are poison for the economy. They’re like toxic waste, they destroy the system from within..
September 23rd, 2005 at 9:59 pmWhat business are you in aphrodingy? I believe you used legal terms – are you an attorney?
September 23rd, 2005 at 10:00 pmto the right of you,
Not courage; clouded, brainwashed, naive stupidity.
September 23rd, 2005 at 10:33 pmThe other thing that these stupid right wingers don’t ever take into account is that 85% of the businesses in the US are small businesses. They would rather drive small businesses into the ground for mega-corporations like Enron (failed) and Haliburton. They think that it is a good idea for corporation like Wal-Mart to kill all of the small businesses.
They will lose in 2006. America is fed up with this sh!t.
September 23rd, 2005 at 10:42 pmAll serial killers are Republicans. I was the exception to that rule. I was unique.
September 24th, 2005 at 2:36 amJohnWayne,
Yeah but you were a fat businessman who was a repressed homosexual – so that makes you an honorary republican…
September 24th, 2005 at 3:11 amI am quite liberal, very much irate at how the administration has put self interest& PR over the common good in the handing of Katrina and Rita on many many levels. Yet as a moderate Zionist, who believes in the historical necessity of a Jewish homeland in the wake of the Holocaust, yet believes that Israel needs to pull back towards the 1967 borders — except possibly in East Jerusalem and allow the Palestinians self-government in the West Bank and Gaza, I still find myself offended at Ryan’s claims that any American Jew that supports Israel’s existence has “dual loyalty.” The dual loyalty claim is in most cases an anti-Semitic stereotype with little more basis in fact than suggestions that JFK was going to get his marching orders from the Vatican since he happened to be Catholic.
Ryan, we need everyone we can get on the progressive side of the political spectrum. Most Jews (75%) are progressive, believe in social justice, “tikkun olam” healing the world, and mitzvot (doing good deeds for their own sake). Do not alienate potential natural allies — we need all hands on deck to put the Gordon Gecko “greed is good” crew out of office & out of business!
September 24th, 2005 at 3:43 am“I still find myself offended at Ryan’s claims that any American Jew that supports Israel’s existence has “dual loyalty.†”
That’s not what I said. I support the need for israel’s right to exist – but zionists who are willing to put the security of america at risk for their own political gains are not american citizens at that moment.
And Truthteller,
You don’t know how much I know this. One of the things I wrote to the fauxgoddess was that I have both friends and relatives who are jewish, and I told her that she wasn’t being jewish, she was being a terrorist.
The problem that the jewish community has is identical to the one that christianity and islam has. We must ALL call out our zealots – and that’s what I did. The fact is there are valid disputes over the israeli lands, as well as valid claims. And the person I was fighting was a ZIONIST not a zionist – and my responses were aimed at their radical agenda. I’ve always been a staunch supporter of the rights of an israeli nation, I don’t believe they have a right to simply seize land and create an international holy war to fulfill a prophecy of some radical though..
September 24th, 2005 at 4:48 amTruthteller,
And if I ever cross a line you find offensive again, please let me know. I have no mercy to the creeps that come to harrass, but if it seems that something I’ve written doesn’t jive – continue to let me know!
And by your measure, I’m actually a zionist, by aphrodingy, I’m a liberal siding with terrorist palestinians. But then again she’s a crazy zealot, so I’m more interested in making sure I’m clear to you and people who may think like you. You’re the people that matter to progressive politics!!!
September 24th, 2005 at 4:54 amIf you don’t know how to run a company, you can still do well in places like Texas or Saudi Arabia. There, bribes are cheaper than taxes.
September 24th, 2005 at 11:34 amCynical,
And yet Bush managed to bankrupt 3 companies in texas – just goes to show you the true level of incompetence the man has!
September 24th, 2005 at 1:11 pm“Well don’t blame liberals on the fact that you’re too stupid to look for a tax break. I benefit tremendously from the loopholes without trying – you have to be an utter moron to bitch about 50% tax rate.” – Mess
I guess you love taxes SOOOOOO much you forget about including your property taxes, gas taxes, sales taxes and on and on. Oh, I remember, you like to call them…..investments….. so you assuage your limo liberal guilt.
“For instance a poor person who doesn’t have a car still has to subsidize freeways. A poor person who doesn’t fly still subsidizes air flight.” – Mess
And your point is…..(?)….. the rich person who doesn’t collect welfare, food stamps, WIC, MedicAID, Head Start, Section 8 housing subsidies, Pell grants, SSI, Social Security (which is a welfare program after the recipient collect their “insurance” for 4 years) 189 federal programs for “at risk youth”, etc. etc. are all ways the poor are subsidized by the wealthy.
Congratulations, Sponge, our firm too, has expanded. But the timing was off by four months thanks to LOCAL and STATE bureaucrats. (If I were a liberal I would find a way to blame George Bush for that “ever shifting” delay because as all devout liberals know, (if they believe in God), Bush is the root of ALL EVIL – making him…. Satan.)
Shifting gears – I enjoy the argument and intellectual gymnastics that takes place with 85% of those libs I disagree with. But…. I will simply yawn when I read the out and out lies of the immature and riduculously inept -Ryan Neat-
MESSY, MY FINAL WORDS TO YOU….
“…still find myself offended at Ryan’s claims that any American Jew that supports Israel’s existence has “dual loyalty.†â€
That’s not what I said. I support the need for israel’s right to exist – but zionists who are willing to put the security of america at risk for their own political gains are not american citizens at that moment.” – Mess
YOU, MESSY, ARE A LIAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!You called me a “traitor” AFTER I repeatedly told you that I aupport America FIRST & FOREMOST, that the Israeli spy Pollard DESERVES his life sentence – but large words like “incarceration” must confuse you. And finally, your idiotic argument about “California vs.US” might have been a legitimate argument to someone like Robert E. Lee at the brink of the Civil War – COGENT ARGUMENT, PLEASE!! I really don’t care that you are incapable of addressing my question about the UN vs. US – you are an extremely transparent Humanist.
MY BROTHER, A NAVY FIGHTER PILOT, JUST RETURNED FROM HIS THIRD TOUR OF DUTY SINCE 9/11 – ONCE IN AFGHANISTAN, TWICE TO COVER IRAQ – GO BACK AND READ ABOUT THE WARS WE, AS A FAMILY, HAVE PARTICIPATED IN. We are proud to have served our wonderful country – we are glad you have benefitted from the sacrifice of ALL who have fought and died preserving OUR freedom….You’re welcome……
September 24th, 2005 at 2:19 pm“Mess
YOU, MESSY, ARE A LIAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!You called me a “traitor†AFTER I repeatedly told you that I aupport America FIRST & FOREMOST, that the Israeli spy Pollard DESERVES his life sentence – but large words like “incarceration†must confuse you. ”
I never saw you say that, I think those voices in your head are confusing you about what you thought and what you wrote. And yet you consistently defend the policies of Israel as a reichwing zionist – so I disagree with your general assessment.
“And finally, your idiotic argument about “California vs.US†might have been a legitimate argument to someone like Robert E. Lee at the brink of the Civil War – COGENT ARGUMENT, PLEASE!! I really don’t care that you are incapable of addressing my question about the UN vs. US – you are an extremely transparent Humanist.”
Actually that’s a nonsense retort – you are truly a crappy lawyer. The analogy was cogent, only your response was irrational. Then again the UN has always been highly critical of the human rights violations of Israel, and their unwillingness to comply with UN resolutions, international law and human rights requirements – I’m not surprised you’re opposed to the UN.
M”Y BROTHER, A NAVY FIGHTER PILOT, JUST RETURNED FROM HIS THIRD TOUR OF DUTY SINCE 9/11 – ONCE IN AFGHANISTAN, TWICE TO COVER IRAQ – GO BACK AND READ ABOUT THE WARS WE, AS A FAMILY, HAVE PARTICIPATED IN. We are proud to have served our wonderful country – we are glad you have benefitted from the sacrifice of ALL who have fought and died preserving OUR freedom….You’re welcome……”
And I thank him, not you. He’s a soldier, and that’s good for him, but that doesn’t excuse you – you’re just a stupid bitch with a big mouth.
Someone in my immediate family has fought in every american war since the 1600s – except this one. Why aren’t you serving? Clearly you feel it’s the right thing to do – right? My ancestors fought in the civil war to free the slaves – so don’t go all high and mighty on me about robert e lee you caustic bitch!
September 24th, 2005 at 7:37 pm“I guess you love taxes SOOOOOO much you forget about including your property taxes, gas taxes, sales taxes and on and on. Oh, I remember, you like to call them…..investments….. so you assuage your limo liberal guilt.”
Those are largely suburban taxes paid by the middle class because the wealthy aren’t taxed enough. Frankly you’re bitching at yourself on this one. If the wealthiest tax bracket on individuals and corporations hadn’t been lowered by republicans and shifted to the poor and the middle class – those taxes would be minimal. The fact is, your party is responsible for most of those taxes!
“Congratulations, Sponge, our firm too, has expanded. But the timing was off by four months thanks to LOCAL and STATE bureaucrats. (If I were a liberal I would find a way to blame George Bush for that “ever shifting†delay because as all devout liberals know, (if they believe in God), Bush is the root of ALL EVIL – making him…. Satan.)”
Wait a second, your business in california has expanded, and you bitch about california? You’re a moron!
“Shifting gears – I enjoy the argument and intellectual gymnastics that takes place with 85% of those libs I disagree with. But…. I will simply yawn when I read the out and out lies of the immature and riduculously inept -Ryan Neat- ”
Inept and immature – that would be a projection. I supply facts and figure, while you can’t even get the dates or who invaded first in the israeli wars and you’re a zionist. Come on, to be inept you have to be wrong, and so far the only one PROVEN wrong is you…
Just because you can’t win, and are constantly shown to be a stupid moron, don’t blame me for your ineptitude. I know lawyers like to believe they’re smarter and can win any argument, but clearly you’ve chosen the wrong field – or maybe you should have sent your law clerks in to do your work for you as they do in your firm, so you wouldn’t screw up so badly…
September 24th, 2005 at 7:51 pm“MY BROTHER, A NAVY FIGHTER PILOT, JUST RETURNED FROM HIS THIRD TOUR OF DUTY SINCE 9/11 – ONCE IN AFGHANISTAN, TWICE TO COVER IRAQ”
And frankly based on all of the other lies and propaganda you posted here, you are an untrustworthy source – I actually don’t believe you… Tell me where he was stationed most recently, and with what air group.
September 24th, 2005 at 7:55 pm“MESSY, MY FINAL WORDS TO YOU….
“…still find myself offended at Ryan’s claims that any American Jew that supports Israel’s existence has “dual loyalty.†â€
That’s not what I said. I support the need for israel’s right to exist – but zionists who are willing to put the security of america at risk for their own political gains are not american citizens at that moment.†– Mess
September 24th, 2005 at 8:45 pmYOU, MESSY, ARE A LIAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!You called me a “traitor†AFTER I repeatedly told you that I aupport America FIRST & FOREMOST, that the Israeli spy Pollard DESERVES his life sentence – but large words like “incarceration†must confuse you. And finally, your idiotic argument about “California vs.US†might have been a legitimate argument to someone like Robert E. Lee at the brink of the Civil War – COGENT ARGUMENT, PLEASE!! I really don’t care that you are incapable of addressing my question about the UN vs. US – you are an extremely transparent Humanist.”
“I support the need for israel’s right to exist – but zionists who are willing to put the security of america at risk for their own political gains are not american citizens at that moment.—
You lie again. What you said was israel had a right to keep all of the lands they illegally stole in the 1960s war. Care for me to exact quote you?
That is an extremist.
“I really don’t care that you are incapable of addressing my question about the UN vs. US – you are an extremely transparent Humanist.—
The founding fathers were secular humanists, you’re clearly unamerican in your values.
September 24th, 2005 at 10:34 pmAphrodingy,
Ask yourself this. If the US were to carpet bomb israel, would you take the side of the israelis or the americans? I’m not asking if it were a justified war or not, because frankly the war with Iraq wasn’t justified, so sometimes the country has to make a choice. As much as I disagreed with our policy in Iraq, I am still today an american. I know we have a fascist dictatorship through stolen elections, but I stand with the american people despite that dictatorship.
My question is if this dictatorship suddenly were to bomb (or even nuke) israel, where would your loyalty lie? Can you even answer that question?
See being Irish, especially with IRA terrorists having been a part of the history of that land, I’d have to say I’d still be an american in that circumstance. I have a lot of sympathy for the plight of the irish in ireland, and I want to help them at every opportunity, but if the battle in northern ireland was on the brink of causing a holy war, I’d be pulling in the UN and every resource available to stop the events and to fairly enforce a distribution of resources between the irish and english/scottish settlers. Because America is my home, this is where my allegiance lies.
Do you support a UN or US intervention and invasion to forcibly partition israel and make it comply with the UN resolution? Did you support the US invading iraq based on the UN resolution? If you didn’t support it based on the UN resolution, then clearly you’re of the threat and force doctrine, which if applied to israel would give us the right to invade and partition based on the risk to international security the current situation imposes on the world. So would you support this? Or are you a hypocrit who believes this applies only to islamic states you don’t like?
Can you answer the questions with the same degree of certainty that I can? Do you even KNOW where your loyalty lies? I bet you can’t and that you don’t…
September 24th, 2005 at 10:57 pm“MESSY, MY FINAL WORDS TO YOU….
#219 “…still find myself offended at Ryan’s claims that any American Jew that supports Israel’s existence has “dual loyalty.†” – Truthteller
#221 “That’s not what I said. I support the need for israel’s right to exist – but zionists who are willing to put the security of america at risk for their own political gains are not american citizens at that moment.†– Ryan Mess
YOU, MESSY, ARE A LIAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!You called me a “traitor†AFTER I repeatedly told you that I aupport America FIRST & FOREMOST, that the Israeli spy Pollard DESERVES his life sentence – but large words like “incarceration†must confuse you. And finally, your idiotic argument about “California vs.US†might have been a legitimate argument to someone like Robert E. Lee at the brink of the Civil War – COGENT ARGUMENT, PLEASE!! I really don’t care that you are incapable of addressing my question about the UN vs. US – you are an extremely transparent Humanist.â€
Comment by mighty aphrodite — September 24, 2005 @ 8:45 pm
September 25th, 2005 at 4:18 pmMightyPropagandist,
You refused to answer my question about where your loyalties would lie in the case of a conflict, clearly you are not an american, but a radical zionist…
Actually you reversed the arguments, robert e lee is on your side of the argument. He believed you could not have loyalty to both state and federal laws just as you believe you can’t respect both american and international law. He used that justification to support slavery, just as you use it to justify concentration camps in israel. How ironic that as a republican, you’re on the same side of the argument as robert e lee was 140 years ago. Clearly you were asleep the day they taught the civil war in history (presuming you studied it at all)…
And you aren’t a human’ist’, perhaps you’re instead just a religious zionist fascist – that’s clearly what you are based on your unwillingness to answer the HARD questions on loyalty. Allowing a spy to go to jail isn’t showing loyalty, but it makes for good propaganda…
September 25th, 2005 at 6:57 pmShe didn’t just quote herself did she? Isn’t that the cyber equivalent as talking about yourself in third person like Bob Dole’s crazy ass?
Spudge_Boy thinks she is a stooge and I tend to agree with myself.
September 25th, 2005 at 7:06 pmSpudge,
Yes she did.
Her head is up her ass, she might as well talk from there…
She’s clearly an insane zealot, that’s why she won’t answer the questions… That’s also why she thinks ‘humanists’ are bad. The founding fathers were almost all secular humanists (or diests). Only the reichwing propaganda machine and its easily duped zombie dunces believe differently.
The retards that believe genesis or the creation myths of judaism (or the reichwing lying creation myths of this country) are just ignorant zealots…
September 25th, 2005 at 10:06 pmYep… if only there had been a Democrat President the poor of Houston and New Orleans would have been evacuated. How laughable.
September 26th, 2005 at 8:29 amSludgeBoy – Perhaps you and your “friend” are unable to comprehend that I SAY WHAT I MEAN. I have typed my last question or retort to “that other one” as they deserves no time or attention. As my dearly departed mother used to say (while flicking the air in a fashion sililar to waving away a pesky mosquito)”phsst…phsst…phsst…they’re gone”. I know that is a difficult concept for Dems (lulled by the HONEST MORAL GIANTS of the Progressive movement) to grasp. FYI, quoting oneself is only permissible to allay congenital stupidity or correct deliberate mis-representations of what one has said – careful reading should remedy this educational block.
September 26th, 2005 at 4:04 pmThere is one little problem with that article that may or may not have been addressed. It doesn’t mention that the city of Houston and the housing authority is governed by a cabal of Democrats and has been for the past thirty years.
If the poor were left to twist in the wind the blame must fall on the Democrats and the losers that elected them. Poor blacks are generally too stupid to figure it out but Democrats will take your vote and screw you every time. That’s why educated Blacks in growing numbers vote Republican. The Republicans will of course screw you too but at least you’re being screwed along with a better class of people.
September 26th, 2005 at 8:49 pm>> Spudge Boy – Democrats are the race baiters. Charlie Rangel was at it again the other day with Hillary and Obama shaking their head in agreement.
Pointing out racially-drawn disparities is not the same thing as “race-baiting”. Let’s put an end to this one. Wikipedia defines race baiting as:
“Race baiting is the act of using racially derisive language, actions or other forms of communication to anger or intimidate a person or groups of people, or to make those persons behave in ways that are inimical to their personal or group interests.”
That’s what it’s always meant; the classical understanding of the term “race baiting” has not yet been changed into bushie newspeak, although i see the effort is well underway.
Let’s pick this apart. “the act of using racially derisive language…” What, was Charles Rangel calling people the ‘N’ word, or the ‘H’ word? (Go ahead, try to call me a honky, honky!) “to anger or intimidate…” What did Rangel say? What were his threats, and to whom did he direct them? (i know that you were paying very close attention, because you have such a hard and fast opinion of his actions. You and i both know that it’s impossible to judge a person’s motives, if you just listen for the parts you *want* to hear.
But you know, the problem is the last part of the definition, “or to make those persons behave in ways that are inimical to their personal or group interests.” Somehow i can’t see Rangle trying to pull down the blacks. He’s just too nice a guy. But maybe – oh i get it, it’s not the *blacks* he’s on at all, is it? Is Charles Rangel *white-baiting,* here? Has he indeed been calling the administration “honkies”, or been trying to get them to do things “that are inimical to their personal or group interests?” Well, the honkies thing doesn’t pan out. He may in effect be telling them to quit *acting* like honkies, but i don’t think he’s actually marginalized them in so many words. So, i guess the “racially derisive language” part of the definition doesn’t apply.
But the other part of the definition does seem to apply. He’s definitely trying to get the administration to do things that are “inimical to their personal or group interests.” After all, can you imagine the impact it would have on rich people, to have to pay taxes on their inheritance? That would certainly be “inimical to their personal or group interests.” They’re interested in being richer, aren’t they?
Okay, ya got me; that’s not what “interests” means here. In this context, it means quality of life and lawful autonomy. But do the rich need any *more* quality of life? Any *more* lawful autonomy? They already have phlanxes of security to stand between them and unpleasant people like Rep. Rangle, D-NY. At some point their “interests” must balance with the “interests” of others.
Well, i suppose we could call it administration-baiting, if Rangel isn’t just after normal things, and wants them to pay more than lip service to things like quality of life and lawfull autonomy.
>> Democrats are the most to blame because they are your people – you’ve taught them to HATE Republicans. It doesn’t matter what we say – you creeps will call us racist and those fools will believe you.
If you are talking about the poor and black from NO, they aren’t “fools”. They may by chance be as ill-informed as you are, but if they are fools, then you are too. And nobody had to “teach” them a thing. They just weren’t in a coma when their life happened to them. And not just Katrina. I mean every school that didn’t educate them; every company that didn’t hire them; or that hired them at a wage that wouldn’t even let them get by, by most people’s standards; and everyone who fought against sex-ed in the schools, leaving them to find out in long form how to make more poor babies to stretch the thin thinner.
Poverty is a tarpit. If you stepped through the leaf litter into a pool of quicksand, i imagine you’d be grateful for a hand out (did that come out right?).
If Rangle is engaged in baiting (and i don’t think you really could pin that on him), then it’s not race-baiting, but class-baiting. And it’s the already-advantaged class that he’s trying to get to do things “that are inimical to their personal or group interests”, like postpone their profit-raking to use the country’s resources to defend the country’s *real* interests: safety and security for *all* Americans.
I’m sorry, but if it were (and it’s not) “class-baiting” that Rangal were up to, i’d have to say it’s about time.
September 26th, 2005 at 10:22 pm>> elvis – actually, i will respond, this will be fun:
>> now lets look at our ‘dad’ — the office of the president: 330million ‘kids’ …
Hey, to the right, President Bush is by no stretch my “Dad”. That’s not what presidents do, and it’s not a good way to think of the position. If you do think of the President as Dad, start calling him that. It might blow a little fresh air into the right love affair, if you were honest in your feelings for Poppa.
Seriously, confusing the President with your father will lead to all kinds of wrong perspectives. For one thing, is he always going to be right, just because he is “in loco parentis”?. I think you could argue for a political/legal version of loco parentis on the part of the President, given his power to unilaterally make decisions that affect us all; but i’m sure you know, if you have kids of your own, that father is *not* always right. He just has to act like he is, and expect that the kids will buy it. Sounds just like Dubya, doesn’t it? Problem is, there comes a point when you know that Dad laying down the law just doesn’t make it for you, anymore. You grow up. You no longer unreservedly trust to Dad to know best; you question some of his motives and actions, just like you do with any other adult.
What other confusions do you engage? Do you think that might makes right? That Right makes right? Do you think (like so many rightists say) that George Bush is basically an honest fellow, and an honest President? If you indeed think he’s your “Dad”, i guess what you are showing is familial loyalty, or perhaps a better fit would be the Chinese concept of “filial piety”, which is even more beholden to the holiness of the word of the clan leader.
Under this version, mere fealty isn’t enough. All support is to be given to the clan leader in action, word, and especially thought. One may perhaps entertain small fleeting thoughts that go contrary to the version of truth handed down by the clan leader, but those thoughts must never take root, lest they affect your absolute loyalty, no matter what tragedy is unleashed by the word of the patriarch. This is a staple of traditional Chinese drama, and often the turning point of the plot is when the protagonist doubts the wisdom of the patriarch. This always leads to tragedy in Chinese drama. Is this what you think, too?
I understand the reasons that system evolved in China, but i’m taken aback by it’s application in a representative democracy. Are we seriously to consider that, by passing the election gauntlet, a human being has somehow been endowed with infallible perception, absolute honesty, and unerringly correct decisions? In other words, godhood? Well, that may be a little much; if electing a person President, made them into a god, why do we only let god sit for two terms?
So maybe, just in case Bush is not infallible, we independent Americans should continue to think our own thoughts, like the Constitution says, but just shut up about them, would that work? Oh, dang, there a fly in that ointment, too: you have to somehow “represent” your views, for it to *be* a representative democracy, in the first place. So, if you can’t believe that Bush is the last word in designer presidents, and you can’t keep quiet about your misgivings on that score, i guess you’ll just be what most of us call a progressive, and what you call a leftist.
September 26th, 2005 at 11:39 pmi guess you’ll just be what most of us call a progressive, and what you call a leftist.
Comment by Lightning Joe —
What’s the difference? Just a paragraph or so please.
September 26th, 2005 at 11:53 pmWhen I hear reichwingers I’m always reminded of the warning George Washington gave the country.
Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism.
~George Washington
Comment by Ryan Neat
When I hear you try and use Washington I remember he ran homo perverts out of his army. I remember he had traitors shot.
September 27th, 2005 at 1:33 amWhen I hear reichwingers I’m always reminded of the warning George Washington gave the country.
Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism.
September 27th, 2005 at 2:04 am~George Washington
Princess, you don’t even bother to pretend.
September 27th, 2005 at 8:06 amToo bad they’re too stupid to realize they’re americans, but…
When I hear reichwingers I’m always reminded of the warning George Washington gave the country.
Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism.
September 28th, 2005 at 12:34 am~George Washington
My name is Rafael Barajas I’m 16 years old.
September 28th, 2005 at 8:27 pmMy sister was a victim of Hurricane Katrina, and when I read an article about wat Mayor Nagin told the government to “Get off ther asses” pissed me off because he had over 2,000 busses each seating between 35 to 40 people. Now if you myltiply the number of busses times the number of people that can be seated that about 75 to 80 thousand people that could have been evacuated. He had five days to evacuate the people from New Orleans and he told the citizens of New Orleans 2 days before Katrina hit the shoreline. Mayor Nagin left all of those busses in thier parking lots and they became usless. Now mayors from different cities in Texas that were going to get hit by Rita used the busses that were available to evacuate those who did not have transprtation from the imediate area. Here is my quiestion, why didn’t Nagin think of that?
And this just proves that the REPUGnicans are for the wealthy and want to stand on the windpipes of the poor and middle class.
People, do you need any further evidence of the class war?
Life is like a turd sandwich, the more bread you have, the less shit you have to eat. Wake the F up.
October 1st, 2005 at 4:12 am#250, bull shit!
Fema was contacted and the local people were told not to use the buses! Because of all reasons they weren’t air conditioned.
You are a fake! Don’t waste our time.
Go tell the world what a great leader der shrub is.
October 1st, 2005 at 4:15 amYou will notice that the VICTIMS OF FEMA aren’t around computers nor are their relatives!
This site is not important to those affected directly.
Trolls are trying to convince us that their leaders are good, while we know the TRUTH!
October 1st, 2005 at 4:18 amIf you see a post like the above, you know it is false. In true REPUG fashion.
#90… your statistics only prove that welfare and entitlement programs do not work. When dems throw money at the poor the % of people living in poverty goes down. Duh! You’re giving them money! But when you take that free money away the % shoots right back up. Duh! They learned that they didn’t have to work or strive for a better life and now the gravy train is gone. They are no better off than they were before but now it is the government’s fault for not giving them free money still.
October 5th, 2005 at 5:46 pm#254 have you posted an original thought yet?
October 5th, 2005 at 5:46 pm#232- “tell me where he was stationed and with what air group”…..YES! And tell us by way of GPS where we can bomb that Mother F-er…Ya! Smart post by Ryan! Let’s seek validation from the limp-wristed left that gives away names and places of our armed forces! RYAN- I’ll meet you at the Tony Awards!
October 21st, 2005 at 8:22 pmMIGHTY- Run! Run like Hell!
Turk is Irish, Turk has Whiskey…..
Great – the poor get left behind – again. I’m about to take an Orientation to Human Services course and this article was posted from last years class. I’ll also be taking a Disaster Response and Recovery class. Guess tghis will be relevent for that , too… Some of us have to keep trying to figure out better plans for evacuation and services in every area from everyday life to disasters. When you’re poor sometimes it’s hard to tell the dfference. Sally F.-C.
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