Protest Turnout: A Picture’s Worth a Thousand Lies
Protest Turnout: A Picture’s Worth a Thousand Lies
Popular right-wing blogger Charles Johnson of Little Green Footballs wrote a post on Saturday called “What If They Gave a Protest and Nobody Came?” It was picked up by various bloggers including Michelle Malkin, who called it “fair and balanced” coverage of the protest.
In the post, Johnson published the photo below as evidence of the “media’s tendency to exaggerate,” arguing that “it looks like the turnout was much less than 100,000 people.” Johnson noted later in the day that “Al-Reuters” had also used the 100,000 number, despite the fact that the picture below “refutes” that claim.
Note to Johnson and Malkin: Maybe the reason the photo didn’t show many marchers is because the photo wasn’t of the march. That actually went down 15th Street, as they could have seen from this map of the route:
To judge the size of a demonstration down 15th Street, it’s probably best to use a photo that actually includes 15th Street, like the shot below. (You’ll notice the throngs of marchers filling up the street for several blocks.)
Sort Comments By: Top Rated | Date
Nice picture of the free concert site.
September 26th, 2005 at 2:05 pmScares the bejesus outta ya, huh?
September 26th, 2005 at 2:07 pmThe republican mantra is the lie is worth a thousand truths.
They're propagandists and fools one and all.
The fact is 300,000 came according to the folks on the ground. It's been reported internationally, if not in the american corporate whore media.
The fact is 400 people (probably an exageration) came for the republican hate fest...
September 26th, 2005 at 2:08 pmI guess the 400 at the war pig Bushlovefestwas more like 40, since the media tends to exaggerate and all.
September 26th, 2005 at 2:09 pmI never exaggerate. Mine really is that big. In AOL inches, of course.
September 26th, 2005 at 2:11 pmThey could have made it worse had they cropped the photo more!!! Thanks for the truth!!
September 26th, 2005 at 2:14 pmI just wonder why we bother to set the record straight with these people. If they dont reallize how full of crap they are, then they are too delusional to ever be convinced. Do we really need to convince ourselves of that fact?
September 26th, 2005 at 2:17 pmFor an instant I almost felt a twinge of sympathy for the desperate right-wingers who are seeing their future and are scared spitless. But that twinge disappeared as quickly as it arose as I thought of the lies, the distortions, the prostitution of the news media, and the raping of the public trust that has been brought about by this corrupt, immoral, spiteful, self-righteous, petulant, rotten-to-the-core Republican party of today.
September 26th, 2005 at 2:19 pmThe march was HUGE and they just can't stand it - so they post a photo that shows only part of the crowd and tell you it's fact. Just like everything they say that is fact -- it's only half-fact.
Fact-free, half-fact - that's all they can do when they are defenseless.
slowly the blindfold comes off...several of my repug friends are having to admit..bush is bad.
September 26th, 2005 at 2:21 pmCensored
News
Network...CNN
Anybody have a link to a picture of the Pro-War thingee the next day?
September 26th, 2005 at 2:26 pmSaturday protests never achieved anything. Mass civil disobedience and blocking traffic today... NOW we're talking...
September 26th, 2005 at 2:27 pmA small number of protesters has an effectj, too.
September 26th, 2005 at 2:34 pmA prime example of the Repug Party procedures
September 26th, 2005 at 2:34 pm: always start vast undertakings with half-vast capabilities.
I wonder if Malkin came to the Pro-Bush-War thingee? She lives in Maryland I believe.
September 26th, 2005 at 2:34 pmLOVED the wide variety of "anti-war" messages!! Soooo clever to link love and admiration for Castro, Chavez and hapless Palestinians in with "we hate Bush" fest! Don't they usually get 100,000 of the great un-washed to show up for these events??
September 26th, 2005 at 2:38 pmJust an idea, but everyone who went to the DC event should email Malkin with a "I was there" email.
malkin@comcast.net.
September 26th, 2005 at 2:43 pm#15 - Don’t they usually get 100,000 of the great un-washed to show up for these events??
You were there!? I'm sorry we missed you, coulda said Hey!
September 26th, 2005 at 2:46 pmMy local Fox affiliate in Dallas stated 100,000, and it was reported on in somber, serious tones. It was, however, in the last 10 minutes of the newscast.
The 100,000 figure has been commonoplace in Dallas MSM.
September 26th, 2005 at 2:47 pmAs long as there is chatter I don't think it matters.
September 26th, 2005 at 2:50 pmProtests don't affect change. They are the result of change.
Alot of people showed up for this. This was a big deal. I am ashamed I did not go.
mighty aphrodite,
So close minded. So blind.
September 26th, 2005 at 2:55 pmDuncan is a punk.
September 26th, 2005 at 2:58 pmA wingnut will believe anything except the truth. Even the DC cops admit there were over 150,000 marchers, and they always severely cut the numbers.
September 26th, 2005 at 2:58 pmRepublicanism itself is a lie, those who practice it are, therefor, liars. That's their nature, that's what they do.
September 26th, 2005 at 3:03 pm#15 - Don’t they usually get 100,000 of the great un-washed to show up for these events??
You were there!? I’m sorry we missed you, coulda said Hey!
Comment by Zookeeper — September 26, 2005 @ 2:46 pm
I was there. I spent the whole day in the porta johns... working. I made more money than Charles did, too.
September 26th, 2005 at 3:04 pmSoooo clever to link love and admiration for Castro, Chavez and hapless Palestinians in with “we hate Bush†fest!
It isn't about being clever or doing what's politically expedient, Afro. It's about standing up for what's right. Obviously that's a foreign concept to wingnuts like you.
September 26th, 2005 at 3:08 pmThere will be photos of the prowar rally tonight at DCDL. Currently there are only photos from the antiwar march.
I think 400 is a fair estimate of the prowar folks (I went down yesterday to look), as long as you count all the observers, curious tourists, and antiwar protesters who were gathered around.
September 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm#21 - Duncan is a punk.
Wow, there's a stinging refutation for ya. When the facts don't fit into your simple, narrow mind, resort to name calling.
September 26th, 2005 at 3:11 pmSo 150,000 lefties showed up in DC. Are you all trying to say that this means something other than the left likes to publicly protest?
It certainly does NOT indicate (statistically anyway) a shift in the pro-war vs. anti-war balance.
September 26th, 2005 at 3:11 pmDiebold rally tally just reported. Only 17,754 participated in the anti-war march. 17,989 were on-hand for the Pro-war rally Sunday.
September 26th, 2005 at 3:14 pmOne of the worst things about the sorry state of our political culture at the moment is that we don't have many reasonable, principled people on the other side to argue with. I would really appreciate the opportunity for healthy dialogue with someone whose views differed from mine, but was at least a person of integrity and honest conviction.
September 26th, 2005 at 3:15 pmThe two towers on the ellipse held the PA system for the rally speakers. The free concert stage was on the Mall and much bigger. The crowd you see in this picture is attending the rally and lining up for the march. There were also many folks on the mall with signs and stickers and not necessarily in the march.
September 26th, 2005 at 3:16 pm"I would really appreciate the opportunity for healthy dialogue with someone whose views differed from mine, but was at least a person of integrity and honest conviction."
Yeah, right.
September 26th, 2005 at 3:17 pmI should also add that that big open space at the bottom where the grass is dead was fenced off. We were walking across it and the cops told us to get out. So plenty more people would be seen below the edge of the photo.
September 26th, 2005 at 3:18 pmYou're right, Concerned Conservative, the majority of the American public still thinks the war was a mistake, and that the President is doing a lousy job.
September 26th, 2005 at 3:18 pmGY,
I try to bring that to the folks on this site. Some engage genuinely, some just attack. Would be happy to discuss issues with you.
September 26th, 2005 at 3:18 pmMark,
I think that a majority NOW think it was a mistake -- but that was not the case at first.
And he is doing a lousy job at the moment.
September 26th, 2005 at 3:20 pmIn regards to #21, don't forget that Jackie is a punk, Judy is a runt. I believe they both went down to Berlin, joined the Ice Capades. Oh, I don't know why.
Could the trolls be more pathetic here?
September 26th, 2005 at 3:22 pmSo 150,000 lefties showed up in DC. Are you all trying to say that this means something other than the left likes to publicly protest?
No, we're saying that this number came out, it will be larger next time, and represents the 55% to 65% that oppose the Iraq debacle NOW.
The numbers will only get worse for you.
September 26th, 2005 at 3:23 pmSo 150,000 lefties showed up in DC. Are you all trying to say that this means something other than the left likes to publicly protest?
No, it means that conservatives are liars. Read the post again.
It certainly does NOT indicate (statistically anyway) a shift in the pro-war vs. anti-war balance.
The polls show that just fine.
September 26th, 2005 at 3:23 pmI think it's hilarious that the right isn't all pissy at their event being called a "pro-war march" -- like they think there's nothing wrong with being FOR war.
Truly perverse.
September 26th, 2005 at 3:23 pmDuncan is a punk.
True that. The boy trolls his own comment threads. Weak!
September 26th, 2005 at 3:24 pmWe'll see Nemesis. That is what elections are for. The rest is just noise.
September 26th, 2005 at 3:24 pmWhat's really humorous is that lefty sites that actually try to keep their ducks in a row are considered by the SCLM to be less "trustworthy" than the blatant and deliberate liars of the right-wing half of the blogosphere.
September 26th, 2005 at 3:26 pm#40 -- again, so what? Both sides lie. The left was claiming 300,000. Who cares? Just a bunch of hot air.
September 26th, 2005 at 3:27 pmThe anti-war movement has flatlined. These current anti-war events aren't growing and haven't been drawing much more than 100,000.
http://awol.objector.org/recentnewsandevents/oct26.html
September 26th, 2005 at 3:29 pmI think that a majority NOW think [the Iraq war] was a mistake — but that was not the case at first.
Actually, it was. That's why the right wingers had to try to bully the opposition into silence by all of that "you're either with us or you're a traitor" crap.
And [Bush] is doing a lousy job at the moment.
Okay, I'll bite. Are you implying that there was any time when he wasn't doing a lousy job?
Would that be when he took us from a surplus to the biggest deficits in history in order to enrich his rich friends?
Maybe when, either deliberately or through sheer incompetence, he allowed a handful of "terrists" to kill three thousand Americans? Or after that, when he used that attack as an excuse to illegally invade and occupy a foreign nation, slaughtering around a hundred thousand people and getting nearly two thousand of our own troops killed?
Tell us. Enquiring minds would like to know.
September 26th, 2005 at 3:30 pmWe’ll see Nemesis. That is what elections are for. The rest is just noise.
So-called elections are just noise, unless all those who are legally eligible are allowed to vote and those votes are honestly counted. Neither of these are the case when the Republicans are in charge.
September 26th, 2005 at 3:32 pmYou mean that's what election FRAUD is for. There hasn't been an honest election in this country for years.
September 26th, 2005 at 3:33 pmGlobal, a reasonable, principled person could not advocate for what the right now gets away with. Seriously, how can you logically argue for a war that is a complete failure by any measure, for a Social Security plan that contradicts itself and misstates what the CBO says, for a Medicare bill that subsidizes the pharmaceutical industry at the expense of old people and others, and for tax cuts that benefit the rich almost entirely but are said to help the middle class and are enacted IN A TIME OF WAR.
There's just no rational way to defend these things. Up is not down.
September 26th, 2005 at 3:36 pmWe’ll see Nemesis. That is what elections are for. The rest is just noise.
Comment by Concerned Conservative — September 26, 2005 @ 3:24 pm
Well, that's what they were for, before the advent of Magic Vote Counting Machines. Too bad the Republicans can only stay in power by manipulating election results.
September 26th, 2005 at 3:38 pmSeeing as the "pro-war" rally had about 500 attendees, the wingnuts ought to be hanging their heads in shame.
September 26th, 2005 at 3:41 pm[...] Contre-attaque du blog de gauche, Think Progress : “apprenez à prendre des photos !”. Et hop, un plan large pour bien signifier l’ampleur de la manifestation. Tellement de démogagies, tellement de mensonges. Un exemple de plus de la lourde frontière qui sépare maintenant les deux Amériques, conservateurs contre libéraux : >> Protest Turnout: A Picture’s Worth a Thousand Lies [...]
September 26th, 2005 at 3:42 pmPeople that support the war are not going to some protest - we have lives. Unlike you lowlives who never get enough of sympathizing with terrorists.
Cindy Sheehan is proving to be every bit as dumb as conservatives thought. We will use her to paint Democrats as dimbulb American haters. Thanks for your help.
September 26th, 2005 at 3:42 pmAmerican is the only nation in the world that prohibits ex-cons from voting. This disenfranchises 5 million people from voting that have served their debt to society. The nation was founded on no taxation without representation, yet these 5 million people are required to pay taxes and cannot vote. If they haven't paid their debt to society, why are they released? If they are good enough to work and pay taxes, why can't they vote? And why is it that an ex-con in Iran is given the right to vote, or actual 'civilized nations' and not the US?
Because republicans are fearful that those who were snared by their draconian lopsided drug laws which strip black men of the right to vote, yet do nothing to the powerful white men who buy the drugs might force those people to vote against them. And they're probably right. Just another example of right wing vote rigging...
September 26th, 2005 at 3:43 pmTypical of Johnson, a non-stop huckster for the Bushies. He's got a new venture called "Pajamas Media" with which he hopes to screw BlogAds out of the business they started, so he has to feed his peanut gallery of wingnuts an endless supply of liberal bashing guff. His blog regularly hosts madmen who bray for "nuking mecca" and delight in making vile racist comments and calling for violence against "leftists" and "hippies".
September 26th, 2005 at 3:44 pmPeople that support the war are not going to some protest - we have lives.
Ha ha! Of COURSE you do, Neddy. That's why you spend so many of your waking hours posting at a site where nobody has ever shown any sign of taking you seriously.
September 26th, 2005 at 3:45 pm#57 - yes, Gary. I will mock you here in this anti-American blog. I would never travel to DC to spit in your face. Just here in this site.
September 26th, 2005 at 3:47 pmRepublicans are too lazy to even go to a protest. They excuse this laziness with all sorts of excuse, but the truth is they don't have either the popularity or dedication that their lying and delusional propagandists claim.
They're truly the most inept movement in american history! They only way they can get votes, is the same as how they get love - by buying it in a back alley!
And as they fund terrorists, and sell WMDs to dictators, they lie to themselves and the world and claim that they're americans... They're just lazy and stupid thugs who think way to highly of themselves and their criminal acts. How sad and pathetic they are. Only 400 people showed up - Bahahahahaha!!!!!
Bahahahah!!!
Bahahahaha!!!!
September 26th, 2005 at 3:51 pmDon't feed the trolls.
September 26th, 2005 at 3:52 pmTalk to CC, but NeD is a troll.
#57 - yes, Gary. I will mock you here in this anti-American blog.
Oh, and you're doing a wonderful job of that, Neddy. I mean, every time I see your byline in one of these comments, "mock" is one of the first words that come to mind.
September 26th, 2005 at 3:54 pmDon’t feed the trolls.
Talk to CC, but NeD is a troll.
Sorry, I'll stop now.
September 26th, 2005 at 3:54 pmRyan - we don't need to PROTEST. We have it all, buddy. You guys, in your hapless effort to re-create 1968 have embraced idiots like Jessica Lange and Cindy to make the anti-war point. Ryan - newsflash - peopel aren't listening to you.
September 26th, 2005 at 3:54 pmBahahaha
The rightwingers could barely must 400 people NATIONWIDE who agreed with them!
Bahahaha
What losers!
September 26th, 2005 at 3:56 pmWe stood on the corner of 15th and Constitution for an hour trying to ease ourselves in. People were amassing from both the east and west on Constitution and from the south from the mall on 15th. As far as I could see ahead of me was a sea of people. I wouldn't have any idea as to how to determine the size of a crowd, but the largest event that I've ever been to was a 50,000 crowd at a Pink Floyd concert and this was many times over that.
September 26th, 2005 at 3:58 pmThe counter-protesters appeared to be about 150, but MSNBC claimed 'hundreds' as opposed to the 'thousands' of anti-war marchers. They were lying and they know it.
The only way to deal with a troll is to repeat the thread over and over again. They try to limbaugh the thread by starting an irrelevant side conversation. Always end your comment by restating the thread. It drives them nuts, and it keeps the entire blog on track!
I'm finding it deliciously satisfying.
So in conclusion:
A protest for democracy hoping to bring together 100,000 people in DC instead brought together 300,000!!!!
A reichwing protest against democracy could only muster 400 people!
These guys are sad and pathetic losers who have NO mainstream support in america. They've lost the hearts and minds of america, and the only way they can win elections is by stealing them! But criminal thugs always win elections - it's why they're always dictators!
September 26th, 2005 at 3:59 pmOne question
Do you believe the people we are fighting in Iraq are evil?
September 26th, 2005 at 3:59 pmGary and others,
Please provide proof of voting fraud by repubs -- just repeating outrageous claims does not make them true.
September 26th, 2005 at 4:01 pmRyan Neat - we muster people at the polls, not pathetic anti-American rallies designed to comfort the enemy.
AND if you believe we steal elections, then you shouldn't get your hopes up come 2006.
September 26th, 2005 at 4:02 pmI think it is now safe to say that the Republicans ARE the "false prophets" that the book of Revelations speaks about.
September 26th, 2005 at 4:02 pmDarleen, yes I do think the terrorists are evil.
September 26th, 2005 at 4:02 pm#68 - CC - common sense means nothing to these people. They've just been in denial for about five years now.
September 26th, 2005 at 4:03 pmNeD,
What I can't believe is that these people actually think the majority of Americans identify with them. The narcissism of the 60's lives on!
September 26th, 2005 at 4:05 pmSteambomb - no, that was the Democrats. Of course, they were discovered when a democratic city went under water and their loser leaders did nothing about it except blame the feds. Dems are pigs.
September 26th, 2005 at 4:05 pmA reichwing protest
Good lord. Unfamiliar with Godwin's Law, eh, Ryan.
putz
September 26th, 2005 at 4:05 pmUh oh. The Right Wing caught out on another little lie!
September 26th, 2005 at 4:05 pmAMAZING!
Michele writes that she "spent the afternoon at Sheehanapalooza in D.C. under overcast skies, in a haze of hemp-scented paranoia".
She's a stoner. Cool.
September 26th, 2005 at 4:05 pm#73 - I know. But, of course, we're the ones who are delusional. These people lost every power base in Washington in less than ten years, but it is Republicans who are delusional.
Here's a hint on Bush's polls - alot of us are upset with him for not being conservative enough on spending and judges. We'll still vote for him over you terrorist sympos any day.
September 26th, 2005 at 4:07 pmPlease provide proof of voting fraud by repubs — just repeating outrageous claims does not make them true.
Here is a good summary site.
For more specifics look here, or get this book. Also try here.
September 26th, 2005 at 4:08 pmAh, "Darleen", an "LGF Regular" is here to change the subject. OK, Darleen, I'll bite. You simplistically ask:
"Do you believe the people we are fighting in Iraq are evil".
Evil is as evil does, Darleen. So yes, many of them are evil. Some of them are just pissed off we are there. Some of them could ask you this question: "do you believe the Americans who killed my cousin/daughter/father (etc) in "co-lateral" damage are "evil"?
Here's a question for you: Do you believe it's "evil" to wage war on a country that is no (credible) threat to your own country? Realizing that thousands of civilians of that country (and thousands of your own troops) are going to get killed?
Is that "evil"?
I think so.
September 26th, 2005 at 4:09 pmSorry, missed out a quote mark in #79. here is the summary site.
September 26th, 2005 at 4:09 pm#29 --
So, what would indicate a shift in the balance? Maybe a poll showing 63% favor a partial or complete immediate pullout from Iraq? Would that do it?
September 26th, 2005 at 4:11 pmSo 150,000 lefties showed up in DC. Are you all trying to say that this means something other than the left likes to publicly protest?
It certainly does NOT indicate (statistically anyway) a shift in the pro-war vs. anti-war balance.
Comment by Concerned Conservative — September 26, 2005
Leave it to a "concerned conservative" to try and marginalize 300,000 regular folks who are sick of the BS.
REAL moderates and conservatives reject extremism. You're the minority.
September 26th, 2005 at 4:13 pmBy the way, Darleen, have you breathlessly emailed Charles Johnson yet to tell him he's been busted here? Have you emailed other "lizard minions"? (I'm not making this up, folks).
Why don't you scurry back to LGF and spare us your right-wing tripe.
September 26th, 2005 at 4:13 pmTo CC:
People supported the war because they believed the lies and distortions they were told.
It is a settled fact that the Bush administration said things that were provably untrue in order to gin up support for the war and stomped on any internal voices that suggested otherwise. It is also true that the Bush White House deliberately tied Saddam Hussein to Osama bin Laden when no such tie existed and the two men were in fact hostile.
To this day, most Fox News viewers believe the Saddam-Osama connection. (Pew Center study)
The fact that the war then occured does not validate the phony reasons used to get us into it.
Most folks do not support the war now because they have begun to understand the deceptions that were used against them.
The cynical argument that all governments lie is hardly the justification for the first US invasion of a non-aggressor in our history.
Bush is hardly doing a bad job "now". He has been doing an atrocious job from day one. The ranks of government have been filled with partisan hacks. We have a deficit spiraling out of any control. We have the greatest gap between rich and poor in the last century. And on and on.
Our President has been out of touch. From the seven minute "My Pet Goat" incident to the three days it took to get him out of Crawford after Katrina, this administration has been redefining what an administration does and how it acts.
History will judge George W. Bush to have been one of the worst Presidents of all time.
September 26th, 2005 at 4:14 pmWe already posted the proof of the elections.
There's the New Hampshire republican who was indicted.
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/120304D.shtml
Then the two republicans were indicted last month in ohio for their part in the 2004 election fraud - or didn't you hear that on faux news?
http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00001780.htm
And then there's the Conyers report itself.
http://www.house.gov/judiciary_democrats/ohiostatusrept1505.pdf
And finally there are the voting fraud numbers themselves which involve a deepthroat from diebold who came forward last week to tell about the fraudulent machines.
http://bradblog.com
And finally the voting results from 2004. The 10 states that had older machines showed consistent tallies compared to exit polls. The other 40 states showed as much as a 14% difference (always in the direction of bush) between the exit polls and the final tallies. This is a statistical VIRTUAL IMPOSSIBILITY, and anything above 3% is called GUARANTEED FRAUD by our own pentagon when assessing foreign elections.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/2004votefraud_review.html
The Corporate media has protected this fraud, and the few press people who've spoken out (one CNN reporter did the day after the election) were severely shut down by the corporate masters...
September 26th, 2005 at 4:16 pmThis story in Stars & Stripes gives the crowd estimate at 250,000.
http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=31802
September 26th, 2005 at 4:17 pmGary - like I said, if the GOP is really stealing elections, you wouldn't be so giddy over these polls. You're a liar.
September 26th, 2005 at 4:17 pmReichwingers always try to excuse the repeated failures, but here we are again.
There were 300,000 protestors who showed that america feels bush is a traitor.
There were only 400 people dedicated enough to defend this treasonous dictator!
Do the math - the fact is the minority opinion sits in the whitehouse. Without Diebold, this administration and most of those sitting in congress would be bug exterminators and fry cooks - that's clearly all they're qualified for!
September 26th, 2005 at 4:18 pmThe polls show that the majority of americans disagree with the GOP on every topic.
The size of the demostrations show that republicans are out of touch with american values.
The size of the demonstrations show that republicans clearly have no broad base of support and therefore enforces the FACT that they've stolen the last several elections!
September 26th, 2005 at 4:20 pmIf John F. Kennedy, Jr. were alive, he'd be President today and we wouldn't have to be putting up with this baloney.
JFK, Jr. would have had my vote. His death by plane crash is a suspected assassination.
September 26th, 2005 at 4:21 pmGary - like I said, if the GOP is really stealing elections, you wouldn’t be so giddy over these polls.
Please cite any instance in which I've been giddy over polls. Any instance will do. Yes, I'll wait.
You’re a liar.
Projecting.
September 26th, 2005 at 4:22 pmI wanted to leave a comment at LGF, but they have "non-registered" comments disabled. Cowards.
September 26th, 2005 at 4:24 pm[...] Protest Turnout: A Picture’s Worth a Thousand Lies. Right wing blogger attempt to blog about alledged media distortion resulting in their own media distortion. This wingnuts need to think of one import concept at the center of lying: you only lie about shit where they don’t have cameras. [...]
September 26th, 2005 at 4:25 pmThe righties are sweating bullets. If they don't claim, "It was way less than 100,000", we're hearing, "There wasn't a united message".
Lame
I wonder if the vets and soccer moms I saw protesting knew they were unhinged members of the "looney left", since that's supposedly what the makeup was. I'm glad I got to be a part of all of it.
September 26th, 2005 at 4:26 pmMonica,
The problem with your statement #83, is that the right wingnuts didn't show-up on Sunday to show support. I guess they had church or something. Which makes your comment entirely irrelevent.
Your team is toast.
September 26th, 2005 at 4:26 pmJFK, Jr. would have had my vote. His death by plane crash is a suspected assassination.
Comment by Ron
Uh, No, Ron. Are you a wing-nut planting goofy posts here? OK, maybe you just "heard that somewhere".
JFK Jr. lost control of his aircraft due to spatial disorientation, a VFR pilot flying into IMC conditions, an accident understood instantly by everyone in the aviation community. Please don't spread silly rumors around. Thank you.
September 26th, 2005 at 4:27 pmThey are still debating the size of the crowd that heard Martin Luther King's "I Have a Dream" speech in 1963.
It was widely reported at the time to be between 200,000 and 250,000 with less than 50,000 whites in attendance.
The number of whites was probably closer to 100,000 and over 400,000 in total.
September 26th, 2005 at 4:27 pmGary, those are pretty weak references on GOP stealing elections. Most of the arguments seem to hinge on the fact that exit polls had Kerry winning, ergo Bush must have stolen the election. Exit polls are not as accurate as you'd like to think they are.
Northern Light, "the ranks of government have been filled with partisan hacks" -- oh, unlike the Clinton administration. And BTW, there is a documented link between Iraq and Al Qaeda.
September 26th, 2005 at 4:28 pmNote to wingnuts:
any anti-war proteters you DIDN'T see were perhaps standing next to those Iraqi WMD we were told were the reason for the war
September 26th, 2005 at 4:28 pmNED,
Again NED, you are simply being a cheerleader. You speak as if it were you who were running for office. It comes off as pathetic and "proud" how you tout the republican party or conservative America as if you actually have something to do with who they are or what they do, or how they got where they are.
You don't matter to them NED, you don't even count as 1 vote. They would gladly dress you in camouflage, strap a pack on you and drop you into a pit of vipers. In fact, they would wave the flag as you were fighting to stay alive, cheering "GO NED GO!" even though they knew you were going to die from the get go.
Open your mind NED. Look at issues with a beginners mind. Look at issues from multiple points of view. Otherwise you’re just another cow in the heard. But then, Jesus was a Shepard, so I guess his followers… oh, you finish it for yourself.
“Only those who slavishly worship success can think that effectiveness is admirable, without regard to what is affected.†-Bertrand Russell
September 26th, 2005 at 4:30 pmBy the way, an excellent watchdog on the insane ravings of Charles Johnson and his racist "lizards" is:
http://www.lgfwatch.blogspot.com
worth a bookmark.
September 26th, 2005 at 4:30 pmFunny Mark, it IS usually Leftists who believe any discussion of morality is nothing but "rightwing" tripe.
Explains a lot about the "protesters" with their "castrate Cheney" "Free Palestine" "9/11: inside job" signs...
Even a couple of diarists at dKos finally got nervous about the veil dropping from the pro-terrorist agenda of ANSWER, et al.
I read a lot of sites and post mostly on my own.
If you cannot morally judge as evil the "insurgency" that targets Iraqi civilians, that beheads civilian captives, that sends suicide bombers into market places or discos...sir, you are a moral imbecile.
And that is the point of this thread..not that the dowdification of Charles' post ("The only crowd shot I’ve seen so far is at Yahoo, where it looks like the turnout was much less than 100,000 people." wow, sounds so DEFINITIVE and so LYING, doesn't it?) proves a "rightwing agenda" but is a sad matter of showcasing the moral depravity of those aggitating for a US military defeat in Iraq and widespread anti-Semitism.
September 26th, 2005 at 4:30 pmWeak references?
Bahahah, what morons republicans are...
So lets reiterate.
The republicans stole the elections.
September 26th, 2005 at 4:34 pmThe republicans suck in the polls because they don't represent america.
The democrats and anti-war movement mustered 300,000 in DC alone, and 10s of thousands of protestors elsewhere.
The republicans could only muster 400 protestors, because the core of republican losers is quite small, and only represents a fringe insane group of idiots (that would be the trolls here)...
don't know if anyone mentioned this because i couldn't read all the comments but this picture had to be taken at the close of the actual march because there were very few people at the concert cite till well after 4 when the march was coming to a close.
September 26th, 2005 at 4:34 pm"So-called elections are just noise, unless all those who are legally eligible are allowed to vote and those votes are honestly counted. Neither of these are the case when the Republicans are in charge.
Comment by Gary Kleppe — September 26, 2005 @ 3:32 pm"
Get those eligible non-felons to the polls and pre-teach them HOW TO VOTE(!)and WHO TO VOTE FOR(!) - that is your duty as a good lefty!!!
September 26th, 2005 at 4:35 pm#80 - Clever line - "Evil is a evil does" Forrest Gump?
September 26th, 2005 at 4:37 pmRyan, re. the weak references comment -- I am looking for FACTS, not speculation on election fraud.
Mighty A, they'd rather moan and whine than educate the base.
September 26th, 2005 at 4:38 pmThe republicans stole the elections
Please link showing the convictions. Otherwise, urban legend
The republicans suck in the polls because they don’t represent america.
Link please. And they must respresent SOME Americans because, heck, they are ELECTED
The democrats and anti-war movement mustered 300,000 in DC alone, and 10s of thousands of protestors elsewhere.
Oh, ya mean like the 1000 in San Diego that started fighting amongst each other?
Do you have a vocabulary that exists beyond calling people you don't agree with "losers" and "nazis"? Your vapidity is breathtaking.
September 26th, 2005 at 4:40 pmThe ZionistHermaphrodite is once again doing her psychotic bit. People who commit crimes pay their debt to society (something he/she clearly has no intention to do). When they are freed, in every civilized country they return to being citizens and thereby have a right to vote. If they can be released into society, why aren't the allowed to vote? This kind of black/white naive view of the world, is why this psychotic idiot was 'LAUGHING' at the prospect of palestinians blowing up. Republicans are truly insane - especially this HE/SHE.
Now back to the story.
So lets reiterate.
The republicans stole the elections.
September 26th, 2005 at 4:40 pmThe republicans suck in the polls because they don’t represent america.
The democrats and anti-war movement mustered 300,000 in DC alone, and 10s of thousands of protestors elsewhere.
The republicans could only muster 400 protestors, because the core of republican losers is quite small, and only represents a fringe insane group of idiots (that would be the trolls here)…
Gary, those are pretty weak references on GOP stealing elections. Most of the arguments seem to hinge on the fact that exit polls had Kerry winning, ergo Bush must have stolen the election. Exit polls are not as accurate as you’d like to think they are.
Northern Light, “the ranks of government have been filled with partisan hacks†— oh, unlike the Clinton administration. And BTW, there is a documented link between Iraq and Al Qaeda.
Comment by Concerned Conservative
This ass clown just left the reality based community for good. I don't think he ever really left the faith based community, he just pretended.
September 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pmThe incompetent and corrupt blind right wing-nuts are really, really scared of their own shadows. The left will blow them out of any power very soon because Americans see they can't ever be trusted again. Repugs. are nothing but war loving chicken-shits, total liars, bigots and haters of our freedoms.
September 26th, 2005 at 4:43 pmMightyHermaphrodite would prefer to vote for a draft dodger who illegally kills 100,000 innocent civilians over oil and israeli zionism, than an honest man who fought for his country. Republicans don't mind voting for criminals, as long as it's THEIR criminals, and yet they would deny votes to others they don't agree with. They're truly psychotic fools!
Now back to the story.
So lets reiterate.
The republicans stole the elections.
September 26th, 2005 at 4:43 pmThe republicans suck in the polls because they don’t represent america.
The democrats and anti-war movement mustered 300,000 in DC alone, and 10s of thousands of protestors elsewhere.
The republicans could only muster 400 protestors, because the core of republican losers is quite small, and only represents a fringe insane group of idiots (that would be the trolls here)…
I was surprised to learn that 68% of America is composed of fringe, out-of-the-mainstream extremist Bush haters.
Why does America hate America?
September 26th, 2005 at 4:44 pm"Ryan, re. the weak references comment — I am looking for FACTS, not speculation on election fraud.
Mighty A, they’d rather moan and whine than educate the base.
Comment by Concerned Conservative"
You're lying, you're looking for a reason to discount facts - that's why you're an idiot...
Go check my links... Or did you miss those.
So lets reiterate.
The republicans stole the elections.
September 26th, 2005 at 4:45 pmThe republicans suck in the polls because they don’t represent america.
The democrats and anti-war movement mustered 300,000 in DC alone, and 10s of thousands of protestors elsewhere.
The republicans could only muster 400 protestors, because the core of republican losers is quite small, and only represents a fringe insane group of idiots (that would be the trolls here)…
and you know, if the grassroots pro-victory individuals had the financial backing that George Soros and Teresa Heinz (she'll tag the 'Kerry' back on her name next time "did you know I served in Vietnam" decides to run again) gave to help fund the fulltime Church of the Perpetually Aggitated ministry, there might have been more.
But you know, doing something in the macro to feel good about oneself is a usual Hollywood Lib schtick. Most non-Leftists have been busy raising funds and volunteering their time to helping hurricane victims.
September 26th, 2005 at 4:45 pmFunny how those things happen, plane crashes and such. I no longer trust the US government. I wish I could, but I don't.
"Paul Wellstone was the only progressive in the U.S. Senate. Mother Jones magazine once described him as, "The first 1960s radical elected to the U.S. senate." He was also the last. Since defeating incumbent Republican Rudy Boschowitz 12 years ago in a grassroots upset, Wellstone emerged as the strongest, most persistent, most articulate and most vocal Senate opponent of the Bush administration.
September 26th, 2005 at 4:48 pmIn a senate that is one heartbeat away from Republican control, Wellstone was more than just another Democrat. He was often the lone voice standing firm against the status-quo policies of both the Democrats and the Republicans. As such, he earned the special ire of the Bush administration and the Republican Party, who made Wellstone's defeat that party's number one priority this year.
Various White House figures made numerous recent campaign stops in Minnesota to stump for the ailing campaign of Wellstone's Republican opponent, Norm Coleman. Despite being outspent and outgunned, however, polls show that Wellstone's popularity surged after he voted to oppose the Senate resolution authorizing George Bush to wage war in Iraq. He was pulling ahead of Coleman and moving toward a victory that would both be an embarrassment to the Bush administration and to Democratic Quislings such as Hillary Clinton who voted to support "the president."
Then he died.
Wellstone now joins the ranks of other American politicians who died in small plane crashes. Another recent victim was Missouri's former Democratic governor, Mel Carnahan, who lost his life in 2000, three weeks before Election Day, during his Senatorial race against John Ashcroft. Carnahan went on to become the first dead man to win a Senatorial race, humiliating and defeating the unpopular Ashcroft posthumously. Ashcroft, despite his unpopularity, went on to be appointed Attorney General by George W. Bush. Investigators determined that Carnahan's plane went down due to "poor visibility."
Carnahan was the second Missouri politician to die in a small plane crash. The first was Democratic Representative Jerry Litton, whose plane crashed the night he won the Democratic nomination for senate in 1976. His Republican opponent ultimately captured the seat from his successor in November.
While an article in the New York Times on Saturday pointed out the danger politicians face due to their heavy air travel schedules, the death of a senator or member of Congress is still relatively rare, with only one other sitting U.S. Senator, liberal Republican John Heinz, dying in a plane crash since World War II. Heinz, who entered office as an outspoken opponent of the Vietnam War, later emerged as a strong proponent of health care, social services, public transportation and the environment. He also urged reconciliation with Cuba. He died when the landing gear on his small plane failed to function, and a helicopter dispatched to survey the problem crashed into his plane.
One former senator, John Tower, also died in a small plane crash. Tower was best known as the chair of the Tower Commission, which investigated the Reagan/Bush era Iran/Contra scandal."
Ryan,
If most of America is so disgusted with Bush and the Republican party, why is democratic fund raising lagging so far behind? You would think that if there was the outrage you and many of your kind claim, the democratic coffers would be overflowing.
September 26th, 2005 at 4:49 pmRyan
Your problem with felon voting is a state issue. I don't give a flying fig what "the world" does. Our government is organized under the US Constitution.
September 26th, 2005 at 4:50 pmCan Today Possibly be Normal?
Lotsa links to lotsa blogs. We are based in Arkansas and try to scout for localized links. But you'll find things from everywhere here.
September 26th, 2005 at 4:52 pmSo 150,000 lefties showed up in DC. Are you all trying to say that this means something other than the left likes to publicly protest?
It certainly does NOT indicate (statistically anyway) a shift in the pro-war vs. anti-war balance.
Comment by Concerned Conservative — September 26, 2005 @ 3:11 pm
What it does say, loud and clear, is that the "lefties" were correct while you just remain wrong from start to finish. You consistently ignorant piece of sub-human detritus.
September 26th, 2005 at 4:52 pmOnly 300,000?!... The US Population is over 35 million people ...that's not even one percent of the total population!!! Sorry to tell you that the majority of Americans don't believe in your cause.
Liberalism is a mental disorder....and is the cancer killing America. If you don't like it here move somewhere else.
September 26th, 2005 at 4:53 pmDarleen, do you believe these protests harm our troops? Do you conversely believe that a pro-war protest would help our troops (by discouraging our enemies and raising our morale)? If so, then why weren't there more war boosters out there? I'll tell you why. Because most are ashamed to admit they ever supported the war in Iraq. Except anonymously on the Internet.
September 26th, 2005 at 4:55 pmI don’t give a flying fig what “the world†does.
So you're an isolationist? If you don't care, why send troops there?
September 26th, 2005 at 4:56 pm"Only 300,000?!… The US Population is over 35 million people …that’s not even one percent of the total population!!! Sorry to tell you that the majority of Americans don’t believe in your cause."
And what percentage is 400 people? Clearly more people believe in liberalism than conservatism.
"Liberalism is a mental disorder….and is the cancer killing America. If you don’t like it here move somewhere else."
You've been listening to the mentally ill Savage - there's no clinical evidence that liberalism is a mental illness, however zealot and religious fanaticism is a CLINICAL symptom of many mental disorders. Clearly your delusion prevents you from living in reality with the rest of us - please consult a REAL doctor, and not the gas attendant who listens to savage as you clearly have...
As for the bogus claims about democratic fundraising or any other nonsense, blah blah blah, nonsensical republic smear and propaganda, lah, lah, lah, you're a bunch of stupid fascist losers who can't even organize a simple protest. LOSERS!!!!
So lets reiterate.
The republicans stole the elections.
September 26th, 2005 at 4:58 pmThe republicans suck in the polls because they don’t represent america.
The democrats and anti-war movement mustered 300,000 in DC alone, and 10s of thousands of protestors elsewhere.
The republicans could only muster 400 protestors, because the core of republican losers is quite small, and only represents a fringe insane group of idiots (that would be the trolls here)…
Only 300,000?!… The US Population is over 35 million people …that’s not even one percent of the total population!!!
Um...that's over TWICE the number of troops in Iraq.
September 26th, 2005 at 4:59 pm"Ryan
Your problem with felon voting is a state issue. I don’t give a flying fig what “the world†does. Our government is organized under the US Constitution"
And yet this voting right is not PROTECTED at the federal level - and why? Because republicans don't want it to be, in the same way the prevented veterans of the civil war from voting and other techniques that turned the south into a bastion of even more crazies than there were before the war!
So lets reiterate.
The republicans stole the elections.
September 26th, 2005 at 5:00 pmThe republicans suck in the polls because they don’t represent america.
The democrats and anti-war movement mustered 300,000 in DC alone, and 10s of thousands of protestors elsewhere.
The republicans could only muster 400 protestors, because the core of republican losers is quite small, and only represents a fringe insane group of idiots (that would be the trolls here)…
Ryan,
Are you an excon? I don't think you are going to have a whole lot of public support for allowing cons the vote. What they did to deny themselves the vote was a personal choice. Since, you feel that the majority of these ex-cons would vote democratic (probably true) you feel that you are being treated unfairly. Maybe you should move to one of those countries that does allow ex-cons to vote, you might be happier.
September 26th, 2005 at 5:00 pmWow, trolls are really worried today.
September 26th, 2005 at 5:02 pmNew ones too.
I guess a nerve got touched somewhere.
#123 cynical
I'm not anonymous. And lots of non-Leftist bloggers actually DO support the troops where it counts..
We support them directly..you know, on the micro, with letters, packages, collecting money for their families.
AND exposing those, like George Galloway, who are openly supporting the people who want to see them dead.
The DC anti-American/anti-Semite march was about facetime. It was about the marchers feeling "good" about themselves. It was akin to the celebrity that is an ass in their personal life but thinks by showing up once a year to laddle out soup at Thanksgiving at a homeless shelter makes it all better.
and when the cameras stop rolling and everyone goes home, it will be the same unsung little people back to laddling the soup.
But who is really doing the most good?
September 26th, 2005 at 5:03 pmI don't know if Ryan is a ex-con, but it looks like he's a spammer.
September 26th, 2005 at 5:04 pmFrom that yahoo link with the picture, look at what Al-Reuters has to say:
Technically correct, but, apparently not misleading enought for wing-nuts.
September 26th, 2005 at 5:05 pmRyan
Jaysus on a Pony -- your argument is with the CONSITUTION but you keep making the felon vote about republicans.
You're only 14, right?
September 26th, 2005 at 5:06 pmWhenever I read crude reference to those insensitively bashing he/she's with sexual deformities (ie: Hermaphrodite) I figure Silent Susan or "that other one" must have deep psycho/sexual problems. Pitiful!
September 26th, 2005 at 5:06 pmLib #126...Um...what the hell is that suppose to mean?...sounds like another lib dodging yet another fact. Please enlighten me with more of your intellectual stupidity!
I'll be waiting...
September 26th, 2005 at 5:08 pm"Are you an excon? "
No.
"I don’t think you are going to have a whole lot of public support for allowing cons the vote. "
Who said anything about allowing cons to vote - that's your proposal, not mine. An ex-con has 'supposedly' paid their debt to society. They still get taxed and work - and the taxation without representation issue is a foundation of our democracy. My question is simple, why are ex-cons good enough to pay taxes, and not good enough to vote if we believe in no taxation without representation? It's a simple inquiry.
"What they did to deny themselves the vote was a personal choice. "
True, but they supposedly went to prison and paid their price - or are you saying that their prison is permanent and they are no longer citizens? And many of these 'choices' were minor drug offenses, but because of the racist and classist drug laws unfairly strip poor people while not stripping rich LOOTERS of their rights to participate in government. If ex-cons can't vote, should they be allowed to participate in PACs and/or election funds? Wealthy people can BUY votes if they're Ex-cons, poor people can't...
"Since, you feel that the majority of these ex-cons would vote democratic (probably true) you feel that you are being treated unfairly. "
Actually, I think our response to them is inconsistent and frankly is undemocratic. Being undemocratic to any citizens should make you feel like YOU were being treated unfairly - clearly you lack any empathy for anyone but yourself. That explains why you're a republican.
"Maybe you should move to one of those countries that does allow ex-cons to vote, you might be happier."
Or maybe we should send you to one that supports torture and other dictatorship crimes - as exploiting the poor and the underpriveleged seems to match your values better. Me personally, I prefer to have the vision of all men created equal, no taxation without representation and other democratic values applied equally. If you believe I'll simply give up this country to your terroristic and unpatriotic values, you know even less of americans or american values than I thought...
So lets reiterate.
The republicans stole the elections.
September 26th, 2005 at 5:08 pmThe republicans suck in the polls because they don’t represent america.
The democrats and anti-war movement mustered 300,000 in DC alone, and 10s of thousands of protestors elsewhere.
The republicans could only muster 400 protestors, because the core of republican losers is quite small, and only represents a fringe insane group of idiots (that would be the trolls here)…
I dunno, but the troll screaming seems
September 26th, 2005 at 5:08 pmmore lame than usual.
Usually CC writes something that requires thought.
"Whenever I read crude reference to those insensitively bashing he/she’s with sexual deformities (ie: Hermaphrodite) I figure Silent Susan or “that other one†must have deep psycho/sexual problems. Pitiful!
Comment by mighty aphrodite "
You're the one who chose a 'goddess' who's known to use sexual and psychological manipulation to cause war, pestilence and chaos. Clearly the psycho/sexual childhood issues you must have experienced made you choose a name that shows your inability to have a functional relationship. I feel sorry for your husband/wife!
September 26th, 2005 at 5:09 pmSo lets reiterate.
The republicans stole the elections.
September 26th, 2005 at 5:10 pmThe republicans suck in the polls because they don’t represent america.
The democrats and anti-war movement mustered 300,000 in DC alone, and 10s of thousands of protestors elsewhere.
The republicans could only muster 400 protestors, because the core of republican losers is quite small, and only represents a fringe insane group of idiots (that would be the trolls here)…
afterthought,
Usually CC pretends to be rational, clearly this whole failure of the reichwing to garner no more than 400 people, while 300,000 opponents showed up in DC alone must frighten him/her with the realization that their side has no REAL support...
September 26th, 2005 at 5:11 pmIf it is your desire to make intelligent decisions in life you will invariably make mistakes. This is where republicans in this country seem to make their living. Their job is to confuse and blur the issues so that some of the time decisions go their way. They are good at it too. I think this is why they are so smug when they make their arguments like say on Maher (opinions aside.) There you will see liberals trying to form ideas and invariably the repug will smugly argue to the contrary by making arguments that don't seem to make sense but at the same time are tough to counter.
September 26th, 2005 at 5:12 pmAnd someone who licks their lips at seeing dead palestinians shouldn't ever accuse others of having either psycho or sexual issues - clearly our zionist hermaphrodite has both!
September 26th, 2005 at 5:12 pmBlur,
They aren't tough to counter - you look them in the face and say.
That's a bold face lie you idiot. Were you home schooled, or are you just naturally that stupid?
So lets reiterate.
The republicans stole the elections.
September 26th, 2005 at 5:13 pmThe republicans suck in the polls because they don’t represent america.
The democrats and anti-war movement mustered 300,000 in DC alone, and 10s of thousands of protestors elsewhere.
The republicans could only muster 400 protestors, because the core of republican losers is quite small, and only represents a fringe insane group of idiots (that would be the trolls here)…
Darleen... Darleen. OK, let's go through your points:
"Funny Mark, it IS usually Leftists who believe any discussion of morality is nothing but “rightwing†tripe."
Inane generality attempts to redefine word "morality". Leftists are extremely eager to discuss morality, particularly as it pertains to killing people and stuff.
"Explains a lot about the “protesters†with their “castrate Cheney†“Free Palestine†“9/11: inside job†signs…"
Explains what? That extremists and nutjobs are attracted to large demonstrations?
"Even a couple of diarists at dKos finally got nervous about the veil dropping from the pro-terrorist agenda of ANSWER, et al."
See above.
"I read a lot of sites and post mostly on my own."
Fair enough.
"If you cannot morally judge as evil the “insurgency†that targets Iraqi civilians, that beheads civilian captives, that sends suicide bombers into market places or discos…sir, you are a moral imbecile."
And if you cannot read what I plainly posted above: "Evil is as evil does, Darleen. So yes, many of them are evil. Some of them are just pissed off we are there.."
Then perhaps, being charitable, you were just in a hurry. Or maybe, Ma'am, you are an imbecile.
"And that is the point of this thread..not that the dowdification of Charles’ post (â€The only crowd shot I’ve seen so far is at Yahoo, where it looks like the turnout was much less than 100,000 people.†wow, sounds so DEFINITIVE and so LYING, doesn’t it?) proves a “rightwing agenda†but is a sad matter of showcasing the moral depravity of those aggitating for a US military defeat in Iraq and widespread anti-Semitism."
Charles' post WAS "LYING", doesn't "sound like" but IS. He has devolved to a Bush apologist and propogandist. Not long ago, the man had the decency to correct his posts when they were materially wrong. Now he doesn't. An example was when he posted the false story that Gov. Blanco had never called a State of Emergency. When the Wash. Post corrected their planted story, Johnson never did. It was deliberate, and in that moment, if not before, he gave up whatever credibility he'd claimed as he annoints his blog "fact-checking" and dedicated to "truth". This thread here is about that. It's about LYING and getting CAUGHT. And it can't be spun away. But, hey. You gave it a try. Signed up for "Pajamas Media" have you?
September 26th, 2005 at 5:16 pm#119
"Our government is organized under the US Constitution."
Interesting that the right wingers will pull out the Constitution to back themselves, all the while their party is trying to destroy the rights we have in the same exact document.
Patriot Act anybody?
September 26th, 2005 at 5:17 pmThis is how out of touch the trolls (aka: ReichWingNut Wack-jobs) are.
54% of the people polled ( http://www.zogby.com/features/featuredtables.dbm?ID=152 ) say war in Iraq is not worth loosing American lives for.
60% of the people polled ( http://www.zogby.com/features/featuredtables.dbm?ID=42 ) feel that King George is doing a fair or poor job. Period.
66% of the people polled ( http://www.zogby.com/features/featuredtables.dbm?ID=95 ) feel that George the Stupid is doing fair or poor on jobs and economy.
If the elections aren't rigged again (and they will be) the ReichWingNut Wack-jobs would be toast.
Impeach Bush NOW! And make sure there's a paper trail come next election.
September 26th, 2005 at 5:17 pmReichWing fringe Fundies(Darleen CC Neo-Con)are out in full force today! LOL
Why do fundies hate America?
September 26th, 2005 at 5:19 pmLiberalism is a mental disorder….and is the cancer killing America.
Who's in power now? I'll give you a hint: it's not liberals.
If you don’t like it here move somewhere else.
So I presume that you never said anything against Clinton when he was President, right? You just decided that it was un-American to disagree with our leaders, and made plans to leave the country instead.
Yeah, right.
September 26th, 2005 at 5:21 pmJesus,
I'd worship you if I weren't hindu ;)
September 26th, 2005 at 5:22 pm#149 - Jai Ganesha. Jai Siva. Hari Krishna. Hari Vishnu. Hari Rama.
Or if you are from outside India... Om mani padme hum. We are all Buddha. We are all one. :-)
September 26th, 2005 at 5:26 pmThe MPD police chief, who hasn't always been the most friendly to protests said he saw a minimum of 100,000 present.
September 26th, 2005 at 5:26 pmActually religious fanaticism is one of the common symptoms of schizophrenia. The big fat mightyZionistHermaphrodite should talk to the couch - clearly she's talking the talk. Does Schizophrenia run in your family, or are you the first one to succumb?
And now back to the thread!
Americans hate republicans, and they poll like Nixon with watergate!
Republicans aren't competent enough to even get 1,000 people to show up in a nationwide protest to support them.
Republicans support torture and other mistreatments that once again clearly show mental illness is a prerequisite to become a reichwinger.
Republicans screw the whole economy for the promise of free money, showing what dopes keep biting, so I keep getting the Nigerian Spam!
Democrats got 300,000 protestors to take off time from their work, their families and their lives to demostrate these fascist morons!
Progressives rock, and republicans steal and block!
September 26th, 2005 at 5:27 pmJesus,
Wow, someone who actually understands religion - welcome and I'm happy to see myself and you at once :)
September 26th, 2005 at 5:28 pmNeato,
Right so otherwise we agree! :)
September 26th, 2005 at 5:29 pm#147
Godwin's Law
btw, do you EAT with that mouth?
September 26th, 2005 at 5:29 pm#153 - Namaste', friend.
September 26th, 2005 at 5:29 pmafterthought,
I think both sides are a little edgy today -- not sure why. Of course, Ryan is a permanent resident of the edge...
September 26th, 2005 at 5:31 pmMark
I don't try to "redefine" morality, but to talk about it with as much clarity as possible.
You mention "killing" and, I will assume, find "killing" immoral.
I do not. "Killing" is a morally neutral term until the context is known.
The death of one person at the hands of another can range from immoral to moral.
It is the same with all behaviors. It is CONTEXT that determines morality.
To declare "killing" immoral is to not understand context. Its like declaring rape and love-making are morally equivalent because they both involve sexual intercourse.
September 26th, 2005 at 5:34 pmLib #126…Um…what the hell is that suppose to mean?…sounds like another lib dodging yet another fact. Please enlighten me with more of your intellectual stupidity!
Let me spell is out for you (try reading slowly and perhaps you'll catch on).
Your argument is flawed because you use and unrelated statistic (the U.S. population) to support your conclusion that 300,000 is a small and insignificant number.
However, the number (300,000) is relative.
For example, it is twice the number of troops we have deployed in Iraq.
In other words, IT IS THE SIZE OF AN ARMY.
Most people of normal intellect consider 300,000 to be a large gathering. In fact, 10% of that number would be a huge turnout for a sporting event or a concert.
The type of fallacy exhibited in your argument is called a RED HERRING.
Now, why don't you enroll in some GED courses and leave the higher reasoning to those of us who have evolved beyond troglodyte?
September 26th, 2005 at 5:36 pmCC,
I'm not edgy, I'm just responding to the tripe people post. You post something reasonable, I'll respond that way, as I always do.
The reason the left is edgy today is despite the clear and utter example of how out of touch with the public your side is, you try to spin it otherwise. You're delusional lack of grasp with reality is frankly tiresome and freakish. Get a grip, stop posting stupid nonsense, and learn to have a real discussion without being such a dope, and you won't get edgy!
Of course I can count on one hand the number of republicans I've ever met online or otherwise who even possessed this capacity. Care to help me use my other hand for doing something other than flipping assholes like you guys the bird? I'm open if you are!
September 26th, 2005 at 5:36 pm"I do not. “Killing†is a morally neutral term until the context is known."
Bullshit
"Thou shalt not kill".
You should have read one of those big stone tablets you morons try to put in front of every lawn. There is NO moral ambiguity around killing, unless you're the person who's done the killing and you're trying to rationalize it!
September 26th, 2005 at 5:38 pmRegarding the morality/immorality of killing: Who, exactly, would Jesus kill?
September 26th, 2005 at 5:40 pm"Its like declaring rape and love-making are morally equivalent because they both involve sexual intercourse."
You should have paid attention in those classes that taught reason (although my guess is you never took any).
Your comparison is more like the difference between you 'killing' someone being compared to someone who died in their hospital bed. That's as similar as rape and sex are. Rape is not a 'sexual' act, it's a violent one - or didn't you know that? Psychologically speaking these acts are as far apart as killing someone versus them dying of a heart attack.
Now I know why the republicans want to destroy the education system, it lets them dupe the witless, the selfish and the hateful into being soldiers of destruction!
So to reiterate the situation and restore the tread!
Americans hate republicans, and they poll like Nixon with watergate!
Republicans aren’t competent enough to even get 1,000 people to show up in a nationwide protest to support them.
Republicans support torture and other mistreatments that once again clearly show mental illness is a prerequisite to become a reichwinger.
Republicans screw the whole economy for the promise of free money, showing what dopes keep biting, so I keep getting the Nigerian Spam!
Democrats got 300,000 protestors to take off time from their work, their families and their lives to demostrate these fascist morons!
Progressives rock, and republicans steal and block!
September 26th, 2005 at 5:41 pmMy home town paper, "The Beaufort Gazette", has this heading in today's paper: "Hundreds turn out to support the troops" It is not until paragraph four that you read that "an estimated 100,000" turned out for an anti-war rally. Like Atrios says, "your Liberal Media".
In their attempt to make every story, "fair and balanced" the media only serves to make themselves look dumb! Not everystory is balanced, folks.
September 26th, 2005 at 5:41 pmCC,
Yes, it seems so.
September 26th, 2005 at 5:43 pmThis thread did not really strike as one that
would rile people up.
People always play with crowd counts.
I have read something about the proper way
to do estimates in Science News, but it always
has problems.
Still, it might have been better for "Charles"
(whoever that is) to wait for some consensus
or just let it go until after the counter-protest
since that did not collect many people.
It does seem clear that the patience of the
American people is reaching an end.
Probably did not help that the war case was "sexed up",
but when the goal becomes murky (what is the current
goal? Iran aligned theocracy?) and the threat
is missing, most people tire of war.
I suppose the exception might be those who
make lots of money while sustaining low risk.
BTW, I support the troops and wish them to
be fully supplied and receive any and all care
they require. They are heroic patriots.
That does not go for our political leadership.
"ReichWing fringe Fundies(Darleen CC Neo-Con)are out in full force today! LOL
Why do fundies hate America? "
They hate america because it allows free voices to be heard. Voices that challenge their preconceptions, and make them feel insecure in their bile and hatred. They MUST silence those voices, otherwise the other ones they here in their state of schizophrenia tells them that they will die!! They're freaks, lets face it - that's why the hate america...
Americans hate republicans, and they poll like Nixon with watergate!
Republicans aren’t competent enough to even get 1,000 people to show up in a nationwide protest to support them.
Republicans support torture and other mistreatments that once again clearly show mental illness is a prerequisite to become a reichwinger.
Republicans screw the whole economy for the promise of free money, showing what dopes keep biting, so I keep getting the Nigerian Spam!
Democrats got 300,000 protestors to take off time from their work, their families and their lives to demostrate these fascist morons!
Progressives rock, and republicans steal and block!
September 26th, 2005 at 5:44 pmAnother thing and I was there... it took over an hour JUST TO GET TO CONSTITUTION AVE/15th ST from the Ellipse which normally would take 5 minutes.
I think the righties are embarrassed they could only get like 400-500 people to their Pro-War protest and they having a bad Monday after.
September 26th, 2005 at 5:45 pmi can't believe how many right wing suckers spend their whole day posting shit at left wing sites, trying to convince us that poll after poll after poll showing that vast majorities of Americans think our Iraq policy is a mistake based on deliberate lies are in fact not at all true or accurate. i know you motherfuckers aren't getting paid for this shit, the first tier harassers do, but you little peons are just hoping to use creative enough invective to get noticed. its like the most pathetic shit i can think of at the moment. hilarious too, but really, really pathetic.
September 26th, 2005 at 5:45 pmThere were support rallys all over the town I live in. You should have seen the masses of folks out to protest this war.
Can the ReichWingNut Wack-jobs really ignore the 12 to 20 MILLION folks who marched WORLDWIDE in protest against an invasion of Iraq before the US nearly unilaterally went in? Apparently so... Oh well. Ostrich. Sand. Ignorance. Fools.
September 26th, 2005 at 5:49 pmFunny Mark, it IS usually Leftists who believe any discussion of morality is nothing but “rightwingâ€
tripe.
No, just the brand of "morality" that casually dismisses the deaths of innocent Iraqis as just "collateral damage" - if you're basing your "morality" on the teachings of Jesus that is, and not the fake morality on display by conservatives.
"Explains a lot about the “protesters†with their “castrate Cheney†“Free Palestine†“9/11: inside job†signs…"
Much like the eliminationist rhetoric commonly found on hyper-partisan sites like LGF?
"Even a couple of diarists at dKos finally got nervous about the veil dropping from the pro-terrorist agenda of ANSWER, et al.
I read a lot of sites and post mostly on my own."
But since your site traffic ain't so hot, you thought you'd "salt the mine" by trolling other sites?
"If you cannot morally judge as evil the “insurgency†that targets Iraqi civilians, that beheads civilian captives, that sends suicide bombers into market places or discos…sir, you are a moral imbecile."
Much like the British complained about colonials: "They are cowardly scum - who only shoot from behind the safety of trees, stone walls,... truly evil men." And did you NOT know that "tory" sympathizers were often brutalized? Read some history for chrissakes!
And that is the point of this thread..not that the dowdification of Charles’ post (â€The only crowd shot I’ve seen so far is at Yahoo, where it looks like the turnout was much less than 100,000 people.†wow, sounds so DEFINITIVE and so LYING, doesn’t it?) proves a “rightwing agenda†but is a sad matter of showcasing the moral depravity of those aggitating for a US military defeat in Iraq and widespread anti-Semitism.
Comment by Darleen — September 26, 2005 @ 4:30 pm
Wow, how'd you work anti-semitism into all that? What, no nazi references? You're slipping, Darlene.
September 26th, 2005 at 5:49 pmLet us put the number 300,000 into perspective, since the righties seem to think it is small.
400,000 is the estimated number of people that went to Woodstock. You know, that rather large concert/festival that was held in 1969.
300,000 people is a huge number and everytime you say it is small, you look like a moron. Turn to the person next to you (some of you will have to go to the bar to find anyone)and tell them that you think that 300,000 people is a small number. They will laugh at you.
September 26th, 2005 at 5:51 pmI was there, at about 4:30-5:00pm I stood at the corner of 15th and Constitution. I took a picture of the head of the tail turning the corner 9th onto constitution, I then took a picture of the tail end of the march on 15th between constitution and pennsylvania. IN addition there were 10,000 or so on the mall and at the elipse, several thousand in Lafayette park. A minimum of 30,000. The bush supporters all in one spot totaled less then 40.
September 26th, 2005 at 5:52 pmi think that reports of election fraud have much more to do with vote tallies being above the number of registered voters for a district than they do with exit polls. although the exit polls, mysteriously wrong for one of the first times ever in this sense, provide a useful guideline, you'll find if you read the Conyers report, that they are not heavilly relied on in making the case for vote tampering, voting irregulations, and the mass suppression of the black and low-income vote in targeted areas.
on those subjects, we have you all dead to rights.
September 26th, 2005 at 5:52 pmnotice, i made an error that was supposed to be 300,000
September 26th, 2005 at 5:53 pmDarleen: Unlike Rumsfeld, Galloway never sold guns to Saddam. Who does the most good, indeed?
The argument isn't about who ladels soup or sends thank you notes to soldiers or donates the most. You can't possibly know that about them anyway.
The argument is how do we move forward. Do a) we keep the same situation growing steadily worse, or do we b) admit that invading Iraq was a big mistake, and work for meaningful change in the mideast? Or do we c) put all our resources into finding a replacement energy source, so that dictators don't get free money by virtue of geography?
Now, you argue for a) but the other two options are gaining support, despite your best efforts to ridicule and belittle its proponents.
September 26th, 2005 at 5:54 pmHey, look in the middle of the circle... is that a statue of Saddam being pulled down?
September 26th, 2005 at 5:56 pm"Should any political party attempt to abolish Social Security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are (xxx)..a few Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or business man from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid."
Fmr. Republican President Dwight D. Eisenhower, 11/8/54
http://j-dubs.blogspot.com/
September 26th, 2005 at 5:58 pmDANO347 - Darleen is a hip-shooter. Note that she castigates people for "namecalling" but feels free to throw around "putz" and "imbecile". She's playing to a peanut gallery of like-minded wingnuts usually alerted by a frantic "help me with the leftists" post on LGF or like. And yes, she's definitely pimping her lame blog which probably doesn't get enough hits to get even the low-ball "Pajama Media" offer.
September 26th, 2005 at 5:59 pmI hope you republipigs who support this war realize that Bush is going to pay for katrina/war by decreasing the military families way of life. http://www.workingforchange.com/blog/index.cfm?mode=entry&entry=7E479431-0FCB-2076-D3D1FE0B7965BE11
$336 billion in new tax cuts that the richest 1 percent are slated to get over the next five years. . They say we need to pay for reconstruction not by asking the wealthiest to sacrifice just a little bit, but by massive cuts to spending. And now we see what that means: The Navy Times today reports that those cuts "include trimming military quality-of-life programs, including health care" . . . This, while troops are fighting and dying for our country in Iraq.
No matter how needy the american people are during disasters, to George Bush the richest in the US are always more needier.
September 26th, 2005 at 6:08 pmLeave it to the wingnuts to make use of some judicious trimming. If you can't see 'em, they weren't there.
Kinda like Karl said recently that there was no anti-war movement.
And they couldn't have been there if Bush was somewhere else. Hm. Ever wonder why Bush never seems to be able to remain within 1000 miles of Cindy Sheehan these days?
September 26th, 2005 at 6:09 pm#118
Numbers, please, on those contributions.
September 26th, 2005 at 6:10 pmEXECUTE AMERICAN TERRORISTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-----------------------------------------------------------
.
.
.
"No cause, no movement, and no grievance can justify the intentional killing of innocent civilians and non-combatants. This is unacceptable by any moral standard."
-- TERRORIST Condoleezza Rice, United States Secretary of State, carrying out the policies of the international war criminal and TERRORIST George W. Bush and the American people, 9/17/2005
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-09-17-rice-un-speech_x.htm
------------------------------------------------------------------
.
.
.
Tens of thousands of Iraqis have been killed in violence since the US-led invasion last year, according to public health experts who estimate there were 100,000 "excess deaths" in 18 months....
The US-based researchers found that the risk of death from violence in the period after the invasion was 58 times higher than before the war...
The rise in the death rate was mainly due to violence and much of it was caused by US air strikes on towns and cities, they said...
"Making conservative assumptions, we think that about 100,000 excess deaths or more have happened since the 2003 invasion of Iraq," said Les Roberts of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health in a report published online by The Lancet medical journal...
"The use of air power in areas with lots of CIVILIANS appears to be KILLING A LOT OF WOMEN AND CHILDREN," Mr Roberts said...
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200410/s1230305.htm
------------------------------------------------------------------
"No cause, no movement, and no grievance can justify the intentional killing of innocent civilians and non-combatants. This is unacceptable by any moral standard." -- TERRORIST Condoleezza Rice, 9/17/2005
.
.
.
BRITISH and American coalition forces are using depleted uranium (DU) shells in the war against Iraq and deliberately flouting a United Nations resolution which classifies the munitions as illegal weapons of mass destruction...
DU contaminates land, causes ill-health and cancers among the soldiers using the weapons, the armies they target AND CIVILIANS, leading to BIRTH DEFECTS IN CHILDREN...
Professor Doug Rokke, ex-director of the Pentagon's depleted uranium project -- a former professor of environmental science at Jacksonville University and onetime US army colonel who was tasked by the US department of defense with the post-first Gulf war depleted uranium desert clean-up -- said use of DU was a 'war crime'...
DU has been blamed for the effects of Gulf war syndrome -- typified by chronic muscle and joint pain, fatigue and memory loss -- among 200,000 US soldiers after the 1991 conflict...
A study of Gulf war veterans showed that 67% had CHILDREN with severe illnesses, MISSING EYES, blood infections, respiratory problems and fused fingers...
Rokke told the Sunday Herald: 'A nation's military personnel cannot wilfully contaminate any other nation, cause harm to persons and the environment and then ignore the consequences of their actions.'
'To do so is A CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY....'
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0330-02.htm
------------------------------------------------------------------
"No cause, no movement, and no grievance can justify the intentional killing of innocent civilians and non-combatants. This is unacceptable by any moral standard." -- TERRORIST Condoleezza Rice, 9/17/2005
.
.
.
I want to give testimony on what are called the "highways of death." These are the two Kuwaiti roadways, littered with remains of 2,000 mangled Iraqi military vehicles, and the charred and dismembered bodies of tens of thousands of Iraqi soldiers, who were withdrawing from Kuwait on February 26th and 27th 1991 IN COMPLIANCE WITH UN RESOLUTIONS...
U.S. planes trapped the long convoys by disabling vehicles in the front, and at the rear, and then pounded the resulting traffic jams for hours. "It was like shooting fish in a barrel," said one U.S. pilot. The horror is still there to see...
"Even in Vietnam I didn't see anything like this. It's pathetic," said Major Bob Nugent, an Army intelligence officer. This one-sided carnage, this RACIST MASS MURDER OF ARAB PEOPLE, occurred while White House spokesman Marlin Fitzwater promised that the U.S. and its coalition partners would not attack Iraqi forces leaving Kuwait. This is surely ONE OF THE MOST HEINOUS WAR CRIMES IN CONTEMPORARY HISTORY...
http://deoxy.org/wc/wc-death.htm
------------------------------------------------------------------
"No cause, no movement, and no grievance can justify the intentional killing of innocent civilians and non-combatants. This is unacceptable by any moral standard." -- TERRORIST Condoleezza Rice, 9/17/2005
.
.
.
The My Lai massacre was a massacre by American soldiers of hundreds of UNARMED VIETNAMESE CIVILIANS, MOSTLY WOMEN AND CHILDREN, on March 16, 1968, during the Vietnam War. Becoming a symbol of US-AMERICAN WAR CRIMES in Vietnam, it prompted widespread outrage around the world and reduced public support for the war in the United States...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre
------------------------------------------------------------------
"No cause, no movement, and no grievance can justify the intentional killing of innocent civilians and non-combatants. This is unacceptable by any moral standard." -- TERRORIST Condoleezza Rice, 9/17/2005
.
.
.
During World War II, for the official purpose of forcing the Japanese to surrender unconditionally, the United States military dropped atomic bombs on the cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Japan on August 6 and August 9, 1945 respectively, KILLING AT LEAST 120,000 PEOPLE, ABOUT 95 PERCENT OF WHICH WERE CIVILIAN, outright, and AROUND TWICE AS MANY OVER TIME. These were the first and only nuclear attacks in history...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki
------------------------------------------------------------------
"No cause, no movement, and no grievance can justify the intentional killing of innocent civilians and non-combatants. This is unacceptable by any moral standard." -- TERRORIST Condoleezza Rice, 9/17/2005
.
.
.
The bombing of Dresden by the British Royal Air Force (RAF) and the United States Army Air Force (USAAF) between February 13 and February 15, 1945 remains one of the most controversial events of World War II, even after 60 years...
Overall, Anglo-American bombing of German cities CLAIMED AROUND 400,000 CIVILIAN LIVES...
Critics of the attack come from across the political spectrum, from far left to far right. Günter Grass, the German novelist and Nobel laureate for literature, and Simon Jenkins, the former editor of The Times, have both referred to THE DRESDEN BOMBING AS A "WAR CRIME"...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II
------------------------------------------------------------------
.
.
.
"No cause, no movement, and no grievance can justify the intentional killing of innocent civilians and non-combatants. This is unacceptable by any moral standard."
-- TERRORIST Condoleezza Rice, United States Secretary of State, carrying out the policies of the international war criminal and TERRORIST George W. Bush and the American people, 9/17/2005
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-09-17-rice-un-speech_x.htm
September 26th, 2005 at 6:12 pm------------------------------------------------------------------
secularhuman,
Randy is like the rest of the propagandist, he post lies, smears and propaganda with no factual basis. He can't back up his numbers, because they don't exist. It's just more ranting that echoes on freerepublic, powerlineblog and any number of other sites that do no fact checking, and relish the idea of lying for the furher...
September 26th, 2005 at 6:13 pmOnly 400 people showed up Sunday. How pathetic. Not even the Republican syncophants and beaurcratic hacks that Bush has been stuffing Washington DC with turned out to support their pResident and the centerpiece of his whole pResidency. Couldn't Karl arranged double time and 1/2 to at least give an appearance that people support this administration?
You can steal elections by manipulating electrons, but it is pretty hard to explain away photo's that show 500,000 people marching for Peace and only 400 people (including media and organizing cheerleaders) for the pro-Bush, pro-War rally. That's the reality. They are a extreme fringe minority, supporting a criminal administration conducting an unethical and immoral war/occupation....why do these people hate Americsa so much? Since there are so few of their kind, maybe they could do the rest of us who care about America's future a favor and leave?
September 26th, 2005 at 6:14 pmC-SPAN estimated there were infact over 500,000 anti-war protesters not just 100,000. Isn't that interesting?
September 26th, 2005 at 6:20 pmJUST GREAT, female trolls. You should be ashamed of yourself if you, indeed, are female. A female republican is a scary thing. You are voting against yourself when you vote for the likes of Santorum, etc., who just want your ass in the kitchen and making more repubs, while they are screwing the babysitter. Or, worse yet, Jeff Gannon.
Killing another is wrong in any context. Just like a redcoat, killing is fine in context. THAT is just about the most moronic thing I've heard today. What/Who gives you the right to kill?
September 26th, 2005 at 6:21 pmRyan Neat wrote about a dozen times:
"So lets reiterate.
The republicans stole the elections."
Please explain how the Republicans stole the 2000 election. This idea has intriged me since then, how they managed to steal the election when the Democrats were in office. Please also explain how a "hanging chad" is possible unless one is marking dozens of ballots at once.
Also, please explain how repeating your argument ad nauseam makes your argument any more valid.
September 26th, 2005 at 6:21 pmDelb,
Lets not forget the other 300,000 who protested in other cities around the country!
September 26th, 2005 at 6:22 pm"Also, please explain how repeating your argument ad nauseam makes your argument any more valid.
Comment by Ed Minchau "
It caused you to pay attention didn't it?
Look above at the links, just because you're too lazy to go fact check, don't believe others share this trait. Read the whole thread, and then you can ask a question - it's already been answered.
Americans hate republicans, and they poll like Nixon with watergate!
Republicans aren’t competent enough to even get 1,000 people to show up in a nationwide protest to support them.
Republicans support torture and other mistreatments that once again clearly show mental illness is a prerequisite to become a reichwinger.
Republicans screw the whole economy for the promise of free money, showing what dopes keep biting, so I keep getting the Nigerian Spam!
Democrats got 300,000 protestors to take off time from their work, their families and their lives to demostrate these fascist morons!
Progressives rock, and republicans steal and block!
September 26th, 2005 at 6:26 pmTHIS IS FUNNY...
A lil' bit of comparison of both local and non-local events covered by the Los Angeles Times over the past three days:
~The Washington anti-war rally: >100,000 attendees
~A "belated" Mexican Independence Day festival and parade in Santa Ana, CA: 70,000
~Susan G. Kome Foundation "Race for the Cure" walk/run event in Newport Beach, CA: "Several thousand"
~Saturday anti-war rally in Los Angeles: >15,000
~Saturday anti-war rally in San Diego: 2,000
~Sunday PRO-WAR rally in Washington: 400
I find it greatly amusing that the chickenhawk chickensh-t rally in Washington, with all of 400 dittoheads attending, was blown away by not only a random cancer charity walk on a random day in a random city, but was also dwarfed by the anti-war rally in San Diego of all places. San Diego anti-war beat out Washington pro-war by a margin of FIVE TO ONE! What a bunch of "Bush league" losers! They should forget their rallies and stick to what they do best: guzzling cheap beer and scratching their balls while watching NASCAR on Faux.
September 26th, 2005 at 6:28 pmI get really sick and tired of the useless back and forth that happens in the course of so called political "discussions". Everyone calls everyone else a liar and each side has facts and statistics to back up their arguments. Heres some facts for you to mull over:
Is the American left sparsley populated by moonbat whackos and wild conspiracy theorists with no grounding in how the real world works?
Yes
Is the American right sparsley populated by myopic, hyper-relegious zealots with an eye towards a loosley defined facist state?
Yes
Now heres a more important fact to chew on: Each side is populated with dedicated, intelligent, hard working, patriotic people who are actively interested in making the country as great as it can be. The fact that there are differences of opinion on how to go about doing that does not immediately qualify the statement that there is a radical divide between the people.
The left needs to realise that not all Republicans and conservative are criminals who just want to steal away with the concept of America in the dead of night. Just because they hold an opinion that's different than yours does not make them wrong; in fact, a lot of conservative theorists are right about a lot of issues and we'd probably be better off taking a really good look at them.
Now come sthe part where I unfortunately have to jump oof the rails of the middle road and fall in line with my family on the left on the counter to the above statement.
The right needs to stop painting the left in black and accusing them of being insane, sick, evil, communists, terroists, America hating, marxist loving, lying, hypocritical nut jobs who should be on a firing line!
I'm 29, and I took an active interest in politics during the 2000 election cycle when I felt I was finally ready to be an active part of my country. Over the last 5 years I have seen some pretty nasty shit being slung from the Conservative-Republican right. True, there are a lot of people on the Left talking some serious smack that would probably be better off keeping their mouth shut, but it in no way equates with the overwhelming amount of venom that oozes from the other side. In my short time being interested in politics I have been, in abstract, labled a communist, a terrorist, a queer loving monster, a Nazi, a fascist, a peacenik, a moonbat, an idiot, a liar... you get the idea. It constantly amazes and frightens me that there is so much that happens that gets dismissed out of hand by the right and so many peopel that get lambasted and ridiculed for even contemplating it.
Here are some other facts that the Right really needs to embrace:
Despite what you want to believe there was widespread voting disfunction in both the 2000 and the 2004 presidential elections. There are documented, factual cases and complaints which I do not need to reiterate or cite here as many good references have been cited in above posts. Just because you do not wish to believe it does make it untrue. If you immediately dismiss all these claims out of hand as liberal nonesense then you are guilty willfull ignorance, plain and simple.
No matter what justifications you place on it now, the information and reasoning given to the congress and the American people leading up to the attacks on Afghanisitan and Iraq has, in most cases, been proven either factually manipulative or blatently untrue. Again, just because you don't want to beleive it does not make it untrue. Afghanistan may be a country with terrorists in it but that does not make it a terrorist country. The link to 9/11, while a powerful emotional device, does not justify the wholesale demolishing of the civilian population that took place in the attempt to root out the terrorists, it just doesnt. IF you need to kill some roaches you dont go smashing up the kitchen floor with a sledgehammer.
Also, Iraq was not part of 9/11. Even if Saddam and Osama had any significant relationship, the fault lies with the government of Iraq and not it's people. Saddam was a righteous fuckhead, we all know this and no one will dispute that he was a shit dealing asscock with real emotional issues. However, we must never forget our governments part in making him who he was, as well as out part in both funding, arming, and training bin Laden and those we now call terrorists.
Iraq was not an "imminant threat". Yes, they had some weapons that were capable of doing a great amount of damage; in theory. The fact is not only was the amount of weapons material far below the numbers cited as proof of threat, they were not in a state of ready use. Sure, with enough time they may have been able to get some planes and some missles in the air, but I don't think a buildup like that would go unnoticed by the rest of the world who, despite the existance of the so-called "Coalition of the Willing", did not share our govenrments outlook on the situation. You can talk about ignoring the rest of the world and what it does all you want, but if 19 out of 20 people think you're an asshole, you're probably an asshole.
The left has legitimate and intelligent points and ideas that should be looked at with scrutinity to be sure. However they should not be dismissed. The right has done a magnificant job of organising it's people and generating a clear and concise message that the left has yet to find a mirror for. However, the danger is that kind of focused messaging often breeds a stilted vision though it's continued distilling of the parties rhetoric. Every generation comes up through an indoctrination of increasingly narrowed propaganda. It's necessary to continue the march for power that the conservative right has, admittedly, been on for the last 40 years or so.
Is the left full of retards and fuck-ups? Of course it is because the left is full of people and not robots. People make mistakes.
Of course, the right is full of retards and fuck-ups as well. I think the difference, we on the left kow how to call our retards and fuck-ups on their shit. The right seems to glorify them because they continue the fight against the alternate ideaology. It's this difference that illustrates the fundamental difference between the parties. The greatest injustice is that the right allows these people to becoem their spokepeople and, often, follow thier lead. Moderate Republicans and rightists tend to keep their mouths shut because they often find themselves ostracised by the members of their party for not espousing the radicalism that makes up much of the rights public front.
However, this does not mean that true discussion can no longer exist. The first thing that needs to be done is the denouncement of radicalist idealism that includes, if not demands from, the right and the Republicans. Most conservaiteives will probably find that if they stopped calling liberals "whiny pussies" then the left would be more willing to listen to them. same for the left, whose continued insistance that conservatives are all evil probably pisses off many of their opposites, they will come to understand the plethora of great ideas and leadership that the right can achieve. I do beleive that the right is far more guilty of these practices, but the door swings both ways.
Anyway, I'm probably talking out of my ass here. I don't hate the right, but I seriously doin't understand why there is so much hate and empty accusation and name calling going on.
September 26th, 2005 at 6:39 pmWe should call it what it is, though, Saudi News. I kinda like the ring it has. Saudi News - yep that's the ticket.
September 26th, 2005 at 6:40 pm"Also, please explain how repeating your argument ad nauseam makes your argument any more valid."
And yet republican trolls do this daily. They post the same DEBUNKED lies and propaganda daily. I figure if you guys are gonna repost lies constantly, it's my duty to repost the truth constantly. It's only fair!
Americans hate republicans, and they poll like Nixon with watergate!
Republicans aren’t competent enough to even get 1,000 people to show up in a nationwide protest to support them.
Republicans support torture and other mistreatments that once again clearly show mental illness is a prerequisite to become a reichwinger.
Republicans screw the whole economy for the promise of free money, showing what dopes keep biting, so I keep getting the Nigerian Spam!
Democrats got 300,000 protestors to take off time from their work, their families and their lives to demostrate these fascist morons!
SanDiego had more anti-war protestors alone than the entire national pro-war protest - what LOSERS!
Progressives rock, and republicans steal and block!
September 26th, 2005 at 6:40 pmReminds of those staged photos of the moon landing :)
September 26th, 2005 at 6:45 pmIf you divide 100,000 by 400 you get...250 to 1. anti war folks. Jump karl,JUMP
September 26th, 2005 at 6:47 pmThe anti-war crowd has flatlined, Ryan. You can't prove that the numbers have increased significantly.
September 26th, 2005 at 6:48 pm"The anti-war crowd has flatlined, Ryan. You can’t prove that the numbers have increased significantly.
Comment by Phinga Bheng "
Bahaha, flatlined, I'd say 400 pro-war protestors are exhibiting this. You've got the correct analysis of the wrong side. Republicans are inept at everything, why should you be even difference! You guys are such stupid nitwits! Bahahahaha
Americans hate republicans, and they poll like Nixon with watergate!
Republicans aren’t competent enough to even get 1,000 people to show up in a nationwide protest to support them.
Republicans support torture and other mistreatments that once again clearly show mental illness is a prerequisite to become a reichwinger.
Republicans screw the whole economy for the promise of free money, showing what dopes keep biting, so I keep getting the Nigerian Spam!
Democrats got 300,000 protestors to take off time from their work, their families and their lives to demostrate these fascist morons!
SanDiego had more anti-war protestors alone than the entire national pro-war protest - what LOSERS!
Progressives rock, and republicans steal and block!
September 26th, 2005 at 6:51 pmRyan,
September 26th, 2005 at 6:54 pmNixon's lowest approval rating was 24%. Clinton's lowest was 37%. Since polls matter to you you've got a long way to go before you can claim America's on your side.
#130 Darleen, Noted your coment about people only showing up for photo op's. That would be Bush like the bull horn moment after 9/11, feeding the troops on Thanksgiving, 4 day's late in fly over NO. The speech in the hanger, on and on. Can you please give us a list of the good things this man has done that didn't take lives or our civil rights away. If Charlie is out there you still haven't given us your list either.We still made a great showing in DC and were going to make a better one in 2006...Blessings
September 26th, 2005 at 6:54 pm"The anti-war crowd has flatlined, Ryan. You can’t prove that the numbers have increased significantly.
Comment by Phinga Bheng"
Your head is so far up your ass you need a midwife! Bahahahaha!
54% of the people polled ( http://www.zogby.com/features/featuredtables.dbm?ID=152 ) say war in Iraq is not worth loosing American lives for.
Americans hate republicans, and they poll like Nixon with watergate!
Republicans aren’t competent enough to even get 1,000 people to show up in a nationwide protest to support them.
Republicans support torture and other mistreatments that once again clearly show mental illness is a prerequisite to become a reichwinger.
Republicans screw the whole economy for the promise of free money, showing what dopes keep biting, so I keep getting the Nigerian Spam!
Democrats got 300,000 protestors to take off time from their work, their families and their lives to demostrate these fascist morons!
SanDiego had more anti-war protestors alone than the entire national pro-war protest - what LOSERS!
Progressives rock, and republicans steal and block!
September 26th, 2005 at 6:55 pmThe GOPukers are very very good a their poopoganda. Remember bush said you are supposed to post yor poopoganda over and over til someone believes it.
September 26th, 2005 at 6:55 pmAnd BTW, there is a documented link between Iraq and Al Qaeda.
Administration:
1/31/03
Question: Do you believe that there is a link between Saddam Hussein, a direct link, and the men who attacked on September the 11th?
THE PRESIDENT: I can't make that claim.
MATTHEWS: You believe there's still a possibility that the Iraqi government had something to do with planning the attack on us, 9/11?
RUMSFELD: Not to my knowledge. HARDBALL, 4/29/04
Secretary of State Colin L. Powell, appearing on NBC's "Meet the Press," said he had "seen nothing that makes a direct connection between Saddam Hussein and that awful regime and what happened on 9/11." LINK
9-11 Commission
Moreover, Bin Ladin had in fact been sponsoring anti-Saddam Islamists in Iraqi Kurdistan, and sought to attract them into his Islamic army.[53] page 66
There is also evidence that around this time Bin Ladin sent out a number of feelers to the Iraqi regime, offering some cooperation. None are reported to have received a significant response. According to one report, Saddam Hussein’s efforts at this time to rebuild relations with the Saudis and other Middle Eastern regimes led him to stay clear of Bin Ladin.[74 ] page 66
Arguing that the case for links between Iraq and al Qaeda was weak, the memo pointed out that Bin Ladin resented the secularism of Saddam Hussein’s regime. Finally, the memo said, there was no confirmed reporting on Saddam cooperating with Bin Ladin on unconventional weapons.[62] page 334
September 26th, 2005 at 6:55 pm"Ryan,
Nixon’s lowest approval rating was 24%. Clinton’s lowest was 37%. Since polls matter to you you’ve got a long way to go before you can claim America’s on your side.
Comment by Phinga Bheng"
You can't even lie well - my god you're a stupid idiot! No wonder you're a republican!
Clinton's approval hit bottom during the long hangover from the 1990-91 recession (43 percent in June 1993)
Americans hate republicans, and they poll like Nixon with watergate!
Republicans aren’t competent enough to even get 1,000 people to show up in a nationwide protest to support them.
Republicans support torture and other mistreatments that once again clearly show mental illness is a prerequisite to become a reichwinger.
Republicans screw the whole economy for the promise of free money, showing what dopes keep biting, so I keep getting the Nigerian Spam!
Democrats got 300,000 protestors to take off time from their work, their families and their lives to demostrate these fascist morons!
SanDiego had more anti-war protestors alone than the entire national pro-war protest - what LOSERS!
Progressives rock, and republicans steal and block!
September 26th, 2005 at 6:57 pmIf PhingaBheng had been a competent propagandist, he would have dragged out jimmy carter who was in the same general low percentage category - but then again Jimmy lost the election in a big way, so may its best he didn't actually print facts! Of course, comparing to Nixon as your answer for how you're not 'that unpopular', shows how desperate and UNPOPULAR the fascists are!
You guys are going down - and you know it! Anyone else smell the losing stench of greedy, stupid, wimpy and fat republicans? I know I do!
Americans hate republicans, and they poll like Nixon with watergate!
Republicans aren’t competent enough to even get 1,000 people to show up in a nationwide protest to support them.
Republicans support torture and other mistreatments that once again clearly show mental illness is a prerequisite to become a reichwinger.
Republicans screw the whole economy for the promise of free money, showing what dopes keep biting, so I keep getting the Nigerian Spam!
Democrats got 300,000 protestors to take off time from their work, their families and their lives to demostrate these fascist morons!
SanDiego had more anti-war protestors alone than the entire national pro-war protest - what LOSERS!
Progressives rock, and republicans steal and block!
September 26th, 2005 at 7:02 pmPlease explain how the Republicans stole the 2000 election.
Well, let's see....
1) Disenfranchising thousands of legal Florida voters, mostly African-Americans, who allegedly happened to have the same names as ex-felons.
2) Sending out state police to harrass African-American voters on election day.
3) Illegally ordering the Florida recount suspended while the SC considered the case.
4) Illegally imposing an arbitrary deadline on the Florida recount so that it could not be completed.
This idea has intriged me since then, how they managed to steal the election when the Democrats were in office.
Well, start with the fact that the Presidency isn't the only office in government. Add to that that a lot of Democrats were (and still are) either spineless or outright bought and paid for, which caused them to basically stand by while the Republicans robbed them blind.
September 26th, 2005 at 7:03 pmCarter's lowest rating was 28% and Clinton's lowest was 37%, per Gallup. Do you homework.
While you're at it, spend some time at Factcheck. You are the liar.
September 26th, 2005 at 7:06 pmCarter already settled the 2000 election. He's an internationally respected election monitor, and he's trusted by our pentagon as an internation arbiter of elections. Last week he CONFIRMED that the 2000 election was STOLEN. This is settled for everyone that's reasonable. Too bad the reporters didn't ask him about the 2004 election - I would have been interested to hear his response!
September 26th, 2005 at 7:07 pm"Carter’s lowest rating was 28% and Clinton’s lowest was 37%, per Gallup. Do you homework.
While you’re at it, spend some time at Factcheck. You are the liar.
Comment by Phinga Bheng"
I did my homework you stupid fascist!
ABCNews disagrees with you, and calls you a stupid fat republican LIAR! Prove me wrong!
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/Polls/clinton_poll_040622.html
September 26th, 2005 at 7:09 pmPhinga Bhenge, polls are uniformly showing Bush's approval ratings in the low 40's and his disapproval ratings in the high 50's. A significant majority near 60% does not approve of Bush's handling of Iraq and over 50% believe Iraq is not worth one more American life. Only about 33% of American people approve of Bush's handling of the economy and his approval rating among independents is in the low 30's according to three different polls. So, all I can say to you is get your head out of your ass.
September 26th, 2005 at 7:09 pmGallup. Look it up.
September 26th, 2005 at 7:11 pmSuprise Suprise
September 26th, 2005 at 7:11 pmFlorida media did not report on the Demonstration untill today
Lead Story Anti War Protester Cindy Sheehan Arrested
Yesterday's Lead Story
Pro War Protester's Converge on Mall
Isn't it nice to know that Jeb still rules the press in this right arm of the white House called Florida
Bill,
Time to call the midwives, the republicans all need their heads birthed from their asses! But of course they get all of these fake numbers from powerline and the other spreaders of misinformation - how could the possibly know that they're stupid morons who've been duped? They never actually do any real work!
STUPID LYING LOSER REPUBLICANS!
Americans hate republicans, and they poll like Nixon with watergate!
Republicans aren’t competent enough to even get 1,000 people to show up in a nationwide protest to support them.
Republicans support torture and other mistreatments that once again clearly show mental illness is a prerequisite to become a reichwinger.
Republicans screw the whole economy for the promise of free money, showing what dopes keep biting, so I keep getting the Nigerian Spam!
Democrats got 300,000 protestors to take off time from their work, their families and their lives to demostrate these fascist morons!
SanDiego had more anti-war protestors alone than the entire national pro-war protest - what LOSERS!
Progressives rock, and republicans steal and block!
September 26th, 2005 at 7:11 pmGet your head out of your ass. Bush isn't running for re-election.
September 26th, 2005 at 7:13 pm"Gallup. Look it up.
Comment by Phinga Bheng"
Liar. I supplied you with a link that disproves your statement, if you can't supply an actual reference, then you are summarily dismissed as another freeper idiot who only lies!
Get thee to a cloister - lying zealot!!!
Americans hate republicans, and they poll like Nixon with watergate!
Republicans aren’t competent enough to even get 1,000 people to show up in a nationwide protest to support them.
Republicans support torture and other mistreatments that once again clearly show mental illness is a prerequisite to become a reichwinger.
Republicans screw the whole economy for the promise of free money, showing what dopes keep biting, so I keep getting the Nigerian Spam!
Democrats got 300,000 protestors to take off time from their work, their families and their lives to demostrate these fascist morons!
SanDiego had more anti-war protestors alone than the entire national pro-war protest - what LOSERS!
Progressives rock, and republicans steal and block!
September 26th, 2005 at 7:13 pmPhinga Bheng, I just checked Gallup and their latest poll has Bush's approval rating at 40% and his disapproval at 59%. Now, just shut up.
September 26th, 2005 at 7:14 pm"Get your head out of your ass. Bush isn’t running for re-election.
Comment by Phinga Bheng "
Ah, but the republicans are! As the president goes, so does the party. Or had a retard like you not realized this! It's called a REFERENDUM - get ready for the smackdown you stupid bastard!
Americans hate republicans, and they poll like Nixon with watergate!
Republicans aren’t competent enough to even get 1,000 people to show up in a nationwide protest to support them.
Republicans support torture and other mistreatments that once again clearly show mental illness is a prerequisite to become a reichwinger.
Republicans screw the whole economy for the promise of free money, showing what dopes keep biting, so I keep getting the Nigerian Spam!
Democrats got 300,000 protestors to take off time from their work, their families and their lives to demostrate these fascist morons!
SanDiego had more anti-war protestors alone than the entire national pro-war protest - what LOSERS!
Progressives rock, and republicans steal and block!
September 26th, 2005 at 7:15 pmYes, Phinga, Bush is not running for reelection. But every member of the House is and it doesn't look like Bush is going to be much help. And, Bush has an agenda, but it looks as if the majority of the public is not on board. And, by the way, my head is, by definition, not up my ass, because I'm not the one lying about the polls. You are the one lying and some of us have caught you in those lies. If you can't even admit you were lying when people throw the numbers in your face, you're just a pathetic, koolaid-drinking Bush cultist.
September 26th, 2005 at 7:18 pmI'm not lying you hysterical idiots. If you can't find the poll numbers you shouldn't be commenting.
September 26th, 2005 at 7:20 pmphinga
are you trying to sell gallup.com subscriptions?
September 26th, 2005 at 7:23 pmHere are the facts of this weekends protest:
Over 100,000 people, possibly as many as 300,000 marched in Washington DC to show their condemnation of the War in Iraq.
The next day, while having full knowledge weeks in advance that the protesters march was going to take place, the supporters for the war could only muster about 400 people.
Clearly, the motivated, the inspired, are against the war. We have been seeing wave after wave of former solders and Marines, former officers all the way up to 4 stars coming forward and saying this war is wrong, and not winnable.
Armed forces recruitment rates are falling and they are consistently missing their quotas. That is until they change their quota's to reflect poor #'s just to make it look okay.
The cover of Time magazine is begging the question "Is the war winnable?" Could this be today's version of Cronkite stating "the war is now un-winnable" after the Tet offensive in Vietnam?
The Bush Administration's ship is sinking, and has been for a long time. How long would you stay on board a sinking ship?
“Only those who slavishly worship success can think that effectiveness is admirable, without regard to what is affected.†-Bertrand Russell
September 26th, 2005 at 7:23 pmPhinga, let me help you out here. Go to http://www.pollingreport.com and click on Bush. You will see the CBS poll at the top because it's the latest poll (I think Bush is at 40% approval in this one). Scroll down to the next poll. It's the latest Gallup poll. Look at the numbers for yourself. Since you have referred to us as "histerical idiots" I assume you will be right back to apologize.
September 26th, 2005 at 7:24 pm"I’m not lying you hysterical idiots. If you can’t find the poll numbers you shouldn’t be commenting.
Comment by Phinga Bheng "
I already found the numbers, they disprove your statement and prove you're a liar. If you don't have anything other than a slanderous lie with no links - that's your problem with incompetence. Who's 'hysterical' here, clearly you have nothing but the rantings of an anonymous lunantic with nothing to back up your ridiculous claims! You say we should simply be able to 'find' your statements, yet since they do not exist - this is an exercise and futility.
The fact that you can't provide a SINGLE reference that shows your numbers clearly indicates that you're a stupid gullible and lying propagandist. You are truly worthy of being a republican!
Americans hate republicans, and they poll like Nixon with watergate!
Republicans aren’t competent enough to even get 1,000 people to show up in a nationwide protest to support them.
Republicans support torture and other mistreatments that once again clearly show mental illness is a prerequisite to become a reichwinger.
Republicans screw the whole economy for the promise of free money, showing what dopes keep biting, so I keep getting the Nigerian Spam!
Democrats got 300,000 protestors to take off time from their work, their families and their lives to demostrate these fascist morons!
SanDiego had more anti-war protestors alone than the entire national pro-war protest - what LOSERS!
Progressives rock, and republicans steal and block!
September 26th, 2005 at 7:24 pmIf I remember, Phinga Bheng means "buttplug" in Vietnamese. I might be wrong.
September 26th, 2005 at 7:25 pmWry and Neat, we love you... keep it up!
September 26th, 2005 at 7:28 pmTo reiterate:
"Americans hate republicans, and they poll like Nixon with watergate!
Republicans aren’t competent enough to even get 1,000 people to show up in a nationwide protest to support them.
Republicans support torture and other mistreatments that once again clearly show mental illness is a prerequisite to become a reichwinger.
Republicans screw the whole economy for the promise of free money, showing what dopes keep biting, so I keep getting the Nigerian Spam!
Democrats got 300,000 protestors to take off time from their work, their families and their lives to demostrate these fascist morons!
SanDiego had more anti-war protestors alone than the entire national pro-war protest - what LOSERS!"
Hey concerned conservative;
September 26th, 2005 at 7:29 pmdoes that mean that only us liberals were able to discern the truth before Iraq was invaded? And only the stupid refuse to see it even now?
You ought to be concerned if you're a real conservative. Monkey boy has been throwing his excrement all over your priorities. Frankly I don't think you deserve it. Unless that is, you are willing to back an loser who does anything but stand up for conservative values.
Here's your link Ryan. Now shove it up your ass.
September 26th, 2005 at 7:31 pmhttp://www.sacbee.com/content/politics/story/13485012p-14325711c.html
Wow, so almost 2/3 of americans are opposed to the president, and Bush has the largest drop in popularity since Richard Nixon, and MrButtPlug d'Vietnam still claims that there's no similarity? Well, you sure seem happy in your delusion - why not go back there and leave those of us who're in the real world to do the grown up politics...
And I'm still waiting on you to supply that non-existent link of yours! Surely if it's SO true, you can readily find it referred to in at least one (non freeper) location can't you?
Americans hate republicans, and they poll like Nixon with watergate!
Republicans aren’t competent enough to even get 1,000 people to show up in a nationwide protest to support them.
Republicans support torture and other mistreatments that once again clearly show mental illness is a prerequisite to become a reichwinger.
Republicans screw the whole economy for the promise of free money, showing what dopes keep biting, so I keep getting the Nigerian Spam!
Democrats got 300,000 protestors to take off time from their work, their families and their lives to demostrate these fascist morons!
SanDiego had more anti-war protestors alone than the entire national pro-war protest - what LOSERS!
Progressives rock, and republicans steal and block!
September 26th, 2005 at 7:32 pmPhinga Benga, that's a registration only site, don't you have a REAL newspaper that covered this? How about copying and pasting the paragraph and the date/time of the poll and what the ACTUAL poll was...
Americans hate republicans, and they poll like Nixon with watergate!
Republicans aren’t competent enough to even get 1,000 people to show up in a nationwide protest to support them.
Republicans support torture and other mistreatments that once again clearly show mental illness is a prerequisite to become a reichwinger.
Republicans screw the whole economy for the promise of free money, showing what dopes keep biting, so I keep getting the Nigerian Spam!
Democrats got 300,000 protestors to take off time from their work, their families and their lives to demostrate these fascist morons!
SanDiego had more anti-war protestors alone than the entire national pro-war protest - what LOSERS!
Progressives rock, and republicans steal and block!
September 26th, 2005 at 7:33 pmKlaatu verada nikto! It's where Michael Rennie and Gort landed their flying saucer in "The Day The Earth Stood Still." They came there for peace, too...54 years ago.
September 26th, 2005 at 7:34 pmSacbee is a real liberal newspaper, Ryan. You would like it. Scared of the facts?
September 26th, 2005 at 7:35 pmSara (#220), lets not forget that all those antiwar protestors showed up when the nation was dealing with two hurricane disasters and was preoccupied with that. Image how many might have turned out without those major distractions.
September 26th, 2005 at 7:35 pmConservatives, Bush is a crony capitalist first and a conservative second. This is what you have always failed to understand. It explains each and every one of his policies. I know the distinction doesn't matter to most of you. Somehow, you have been convinced that you should trust corporate crony capitalists over dedicated public servants. I wouldn't have thought Americans could be convinced of such a thing, but there it is. That's the power of mass corporate media.
September 26th, 2005 at 7:37 pmPhinga Bheng, I told you how to find the correct and most current Gallup numbers which show Bush with 41% approval and 59% disapproval. These numbers show that you were either misinformed or lying in your previous posts. Why should anyone believe anything you post here if you won't even cop to being wrong when confronted by the facts?
September 26th, 2005 at 7:40 pmPhinga,
Don't care. They're probably just reprinting the cook report or one of the other sites that falsely printed the data. They are referring to June 1993, when his approval rating dropped to 43 percent. The propaganda numbers you refer to broke out those who 'strongly approve' from those who 'approve' of the president's handling. The problem with this methodology is that bush plummets to I believe 24% under the most recent gallup poll. If you want to play those numbers, we can go that direction - but I believe you're gonna be might sad with the outcome!
Americans hate republicans, and they poll like Nixon with watergate!
Republicans aren’t competent enough to even get 1,000 people to show up in a nationwide protest to support them.
Republicans support torture and other mistreatments that once again clearly show mental illness is a prerequisite to become a reichwinger.
Republicans screw the whole economy for the promise of free money, showing what dopes keep biting, so I keep getting the Nigerian Spam!
Democrats got 300,000 protestors to take off time from their work, their families and their lives to demostrate these fascist morons!
SanDiego had more anti-war protestors alone than the entire national pro-war protest - what LOSERS!
Progressives rock, and republicans steal and block!
September 26th, 2005 at 7:41 pmPhinga Bheng,
Do you believe everything your history teachers taught you?
September 26th, 2005 at 7:43 pm"Now shove it up your ass."
My ass is off limits to you, or any of your other buttplug buddies.
Why don't you shove those lying numbers of yours instead. The ABC link I sent you contradicts those numbers you printed. Whoever pulled them at the sacbee clearly pulled propaganda and not factual data - you should complain that you were duped yet again!
Americans hate republicans, and they poll like Nixon with watergate!
Republicans aren’t competent enough to even get 1,000 people to show up in a nationwide protest to support them.
Republicans support torture and other mistreatments that once again clearly show mental illness is a prerequisite to become a reichwinger.
Republicans screw the whole economy for the promise of free money, showing what dopes keep biting, so I keep getting the Nigerian Spam!
Democrats got 300,000 protestors to take off time from their work, their families and their lives to demostrate these fascist morons!
SanDiego had more anti-war protestors alone than the entire national pro-war protest - what LOSERS!
Progressives rock, and republicans steal and block!
September 26th, 2005 at 7:45 pm#161 Ryan
The Commandment, in the original Hebrew "ratsah" translates as murder, or an unlawful killing. If the Commandment were truly "thou shalt not KILL" the Hebrew word "harag" would have been used.
There ARE lawful/moral killings. To try and pretend otherwise is just silly
Try actually studying the Bible once in a while, instead of skimming the Cliff Notes.
September 26th, 2005 at 7:46 pm#163 Ryan
Are you trying to tell me rape does NOT involve sexual intercourse?
My oh my..think of all those bad old legal statutes that describe rape as sexual intercourse WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF NON-CONSENT.
Pssst. Ryan? A bit of advice? If you think getting a gal drunk and having sex with her is NOT rape, you're in for a big surprise. DO take that strategy off you "how I can get laid" list. I know you're desperate and all, but I'd rather warn you than see some poor girl wonder what the hell happened to her.
September 26th, 2005 at 7:50 pmPer the Gallup Organization. You have to pay to get the digits.
Presidential Approval Ratings 1953-99
Eisenhower
Avg 65%
Lowest 48%
Highest 79%
Kennedy
Avg 70%
Lowest 56%
Highest 83%
Johnson
Avg 55%
Lowest 35%
Highest 79%
Nixon
Avg 49%
Lowest 24%
Highest 67%
Ford
Avg 47%
Lowest 37%
Highest 71%
Carter
Avg 45%
Lowest 28%
Highest 74%
Reagan
Avg 53%
Lowest 35%
Highest 65%
Bush
Avg 61%
Lowest 29%
Highest 89%
Clinton
Avg 54%
Lowest 37%
Highest 73%
Bush - to date
September 26th, 2005 at 7:51 pmLowest 40%
Highest 90%
Sorry I can't participate in the royal red state redcoat bile fest, but drunken George reminds me of another George, King George III. And I do want to remind you that Dubya is our third George to hold the office of the Presidency of the US. Not that he holds the office legitimately given the now clearly discredited election manipulations in Florida in 2000 and the electronic voting malfeasance in Ohio in 2004.
However, I do intuit that the best is yet to come for liberty minded liberals like myself but even that will be at a needless price payed by the weakest and most unfortunate among us. As well, there will be so many missed wonderful opportunities to make our nation a greater, healther, happier and most respected nation among nations while we watch the cycle of corruption, deceit and amorality play out again with the right wing Christian evangelical totalitarian fascism that cycles bloodily by like clock work. Still, it is painful to watch, regardless of how ironic the moronic machinations of drunk with dogma Republicans puke up the acid of their own demise.
Still, history repeats itself and brave liberators like Franklin, Washington and Jefferson will come to the fore while silly sots like our Third George will be relegated to the dung heap of history like King George III.
September 26th, 2005 at 7:53 pmThe Paranoid Mentality is alive and well at thinkparanoid.org
September 26th, 2005 at 7:53 pmhttp://karws.gso.uri.edu/JFK/conspiracy_theory/the_paranoid_mentality/Rational_thinker_versus_paranoid.html
Darleen,
I was trying to provide the dumbed down explanation. See the thing is while the word used is 'murder', this isn't the only place where killing is referred to. People like you who look for scriptural outs to be hateful are really sad bags of crap...
God alone is the Lord of life and death, according to the Scriptures. He alone can ‘kill and make alive’ (Deut 32:39; cf. 1 Sam. 2:6).
He alone can decree capital punishment for murder (Gen. 9:6)
or command ‘You shall not kill’ (Ex. 20:13; Deut 5:17; Matt. 5:21-22).
He alone can give the breath of life (Gen. 2:7)
and take it away (Ps. 104:29-30; cf. Ps. 146:4; Eccles. 12:7).
‘If he should take back his spirit to himself and gather to himself his breath, all flesh would perish together, and all mortals return to dust’ (Job 34:14-15).â€
September 26th, 2005 at 7:54 pmDarleen, I assume by your post that you are of the Jewish faith. But, if you are a Christian, tell us please: would Jesus agree that it's just silly to maintain that killing is immoral? Maybe you are not into the New Testament and stick to the older, even more irrelevant texts. As a great man wrote, "foolish rules of ancient date, designed to make you all feel great, while you bend, fold and mutilate those unbelievers from a neighboring state."
September 26th, 2005 at 7:54 pm"Pssst. Ryan? A bit of advice? If you think getting a gal drunk and having sex with her is NOT rape, you’re in for a big surprise. DO take that strategy off you “how I can get laid†list. I know you’re desperate and all, but I’d rather warn you than see some poor girl wonder what the hell happened to her."
Then why did you imply these were moral equivalents. Rape is violence, you clearly are insane and have no rational ability to argue. This paragraph isn't even related to what was said - are you sure you can read english?
Americans hate republicans, and they poll like Nixon with watergate!
Republicans aren’t competent enough to even get 1,000 people to show up in a nationwide protest to support them.
Republicans support torture and other mistreatments that once again clearly show mental illness is a prerequisite to become a reichwinger.
Republicans screw the whole economy for the promise of free money, showing what dopes keep biting, so I keep getting the Nigerian Spam!
Democrats got 300,000 protestors to take off time from their work, their families and their lives to demostrate these fascist morons!
SanDiego had more anti-war protestors alone than the entire national pro-war protest - what LOSERS!
Progressives rock, and republicans steal and block!
September 26th, 2005 at 7:56 pm#177 Mark
Makes you feel good, makes you feel like a man to eschew any substance but to think I'm trolling here for traffic... I came here because a commenter on MY blog dropped this link into it. And, sweetcheeks, it looks like a get a hell of a lot more traffic than you since I actually write on my own blog while you can't seem to do anything but push annities in comment threads.
I only stated if you could not see the evil in people who slice the heads off people like Daniel Pearl and Nick Berg, then you were a "moral imbecile". If you do see the evil, then obviously the label doesn't apply.
I'm not afraid to discuss morality, but it sure bothers the holy fuck out of some of you.
September 26th, 2005 at 7:57 pmPhinga Bheng, wikipedia disagrees with you - you lose!
Americans hate republicans, and they poll like Nixon with watergate!
Republicans aren’t competent enough to even get 1,000 people to show up in a nationwide protest to support them.
Republicans support torture and other mistreatments that once again clearly show mental illness is a prerequisite to become a reichwinger.
Republicans screw the whole economy for the promise of free money, showing what dopes keep biting, so I keep getting the Nigerian Spam!
Democrats got 300,000 protestors to take off time from their work, their families and their lives to demostrate these fascist morons!
SanDiego had more anti-war protestors alone than the entire national pro-war protest - what LOSERS!
Progressives rock, and republicans steal and block!
September 26th, 2005 at 7:57 pmBheng, your own number show that Bush's current approval rating of 40% is the lowest of his presidency. Thanks for the help.
September 26th, 2005 at 7:58 pmThe numbers are from the Gallup Organization, not me.
September 26th, 2005 at 7:58 pmDamn Bill, you are SO smart!!!!!
September 26th, 2005 at 7:59 pmThank you, Phinga. I appreciate you noticing.
September 26th, 2005 at 8:00 pmThe bottom line after all these comments?
That Duncan is a weakass punk.
September 26th, 2005 at 8:01 pmDarleen, LOL...typical Republican- Look for any loopholes in law or in the scriptures that will justify activities that are inherently immoral to anyone with a shred of integrity (i.e. Delay, Frist, Bush, etc...). Shocking, SHOCKING I say.... ...and excellent.
September 26th, 2005 at 8:01 pmDarlene, I find it hard to imagine that you're even a woman. First of all there are different kinds of rapes, some involve intercourse, some do not. While it usually involves sex, it ALWAYS involves violence in some way. A rape can be entirely psychological and emotional in nature, and can involve stealing and stripping away someone's family, their home, their dignity.
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/001955.htm
Even the NIH lists rape as "an act of violence expressed through sex, but is not primarily about sex."
Get a clue you witless dipshit!
Americans hate republicans, and they poll like Nixon with watergate!
Republicans aren’t competent enough to even get 1,000 people to show up in a nationwide protest to support them.
Republicans support torture and other mistreatments that once again clearly show mental illness is a prerequisite to become a reichwinger.
Republicans screw the whole economy for the promise of free money, showing what dopes keep biting, so I keep getting the Nigerian Spam!
Democrats got 300,000 protestors to take off time from their work, their families and their lives to demostrate these fascist morons!
SanDiego had more anti-war protestors alone than the entire national pro-war protest - what LOSERS!
Progressives rock, and republicans steal and block!
September 26th, 2005 at 8:02 pm"The numbers are from the Gallup Organization, not me.
Comment by Phinga Bheng "
So you say - ABC and wikipedia both disagree with you.
I trust them better than you. And besides, aren't you comparing bush to 2 presidents that were impeached? Are you implying bush should be impeached? That's what I'm hearing! Everyone agree with PB that bush should be impeached? Say Yeah! Come on folks - can I hear an impeachment coming on?
Americans hate republicans, and they poll like Nixon with watergate!
Republicans aren’t competent enough to even get 1,000 people to show up in a nationwide protest to support them.
Republicans support torture and other mistreatments that once again clearly show mental illness is a prerequisite to become a reichwinger.
Republicans screw the whole economy for the promise of free money, showing what dopes keep biting, so I keep getting the Nigerian Spam!
Democrats got 300,000 protestors to take off time from their work, their families and their lives to demostrate these fascist morons!
SanDiego had more anti-war protestors alone than the entire national pro-war protest - what LOSERS!
Progressives rock, and republicans steal and block!
September 26th, 2005 at 8:04 pmOh and I want to remind everyone that the lowest numbers of clinton were during the period where the other party stormed into congress! Looks like 2006 is lining up to be a banner year!
Go democrats!
Americans hate republicans, and they poll like Nixon with watergate!
Republicans aren’t competent enough to even get 1,000 people to show up in a nationwide protest to support them.
Republicans support torture and other mistreatments that once again clearly show mental illness is a prerequisite to become a reichwinger.
Republicans screw the whole economy for the promise of free money, showing what dopes keep biting, so I keep getting the Nigerian Spam!
Democrats got 300,000 protestors to take off time from their work, their families and their lives to demostrate these fascist morons!
SanDiego had more anti-war protestors alone than the entire national pro-war protest - what LOSERS!
Progressives rock, and republicans steal and block!
September 26th, 2005 at 8:07 pmWhenever I read crude reference to those insensitively bashing he/she’s with sexual deformities (ie: Hermaphrodite) I figure Silent Susan or “that other one†must have deep psycho/sexual problems. Pitiful!
Comment by mighty aphrodite — September 26, 2005 @ 5:06 pm
The only deformity here is you and yours. It's your minds that are deformed, not your bodies. You are filth and you will be demonized because there isn't anything good inside of you, never was, never will be. I intend to see to it that you are beaten down and back to the fringe from whence you came. This is America love it or leave it. Since I doubt your kind has ever been capable of love, you should just leave and take your ugly women with you. Like Darleen. I can tell she's ugly because that daughter of hers isn't too appealing. Is she a hermaphrodite, too? You didn't think your little rhetorical tricks and con artistry was going to work forever, did you? Of course you did, just like your kind thinks: "Let's get into a war! We can worry about the exit plan and grand strategy later!" When people see the brand "conservative" or "Republican" they will associate it with evil, thievery, corruption, violence, hatred, dishonesty, duplicty, and it's perfectly OK to hate that brand and villify those who associate with it. It's good to shun them, and worse. You are basically the same little cretins who used to go on the Jerry Springer show in your KKK outfits. People should throw chairs at you. People should beat you to death with the chairs they throw at you and it's going to be acceptable to think that way about you and the entire right wing in America and the world. We thank you for that. We couldn't have done it without you and your blind incompetence and unbounded hubris and sense of self-importance.
In zoology, a hermaphrodite is an organism of a species whose members possess both male and female sexual organs during their lives. In many species, hermaphroditism is a normal part of the life-cycle. Generally, hermaphroditism occurs in the invertebrates, although it occurs in a fair number of fish, and to a lesser degree in other vertebrates.
September 26th, 2005 at 8:10 pmYou are so juvenile Ryan. The data came from a liberal newspaper, the data compares presidents over the past fifty years. You're a paranoid. VENI,VEDI, VICI
September 26th, 2005 at 8:10 pm"I can tell she’s ugly because that daughter of hers isn’t too appealing."
low blow...definitely.
September 26th, 2005 at 8:13 pm"You are so juvenile Ryan. The data came from a liberal newspaper, the data compares presidents over the past fifty years. You’re a paranoid. VENI,VEDI, VICI"
Paranoid? Bahaha, how funny. You and your buddies post fake statistics and lies DAILY - get real! When they aren't fake they're distorted beyond reality. Just 'cause you don't know that isn't my fault.
Most of your friends post lies from white racist and neocon sites that would make any decent person cringe...
I'm not paranoid - I'm realistic. Your side lies on a daily basis. You cheat on a daily basis. And you fail american on a daily basis. It isn't paranoia, but your fear of clinton and liberals are! We are inclusive and the economy and the country ALWAYS runs better under democrats..
The facts are that your party has been taken over by followers of Leo Strauss (a self avowed Nazi) and you live and breathe their values in your ignorance. And you spout insanities and paranoias daily while accusing others of doing that thing.
If you are crap at establishing your facts, stay off the blogs till you improve - it's not my problem that you're bad at it!
Americans hate republicans, and they poll like Nixon with watergate!
Republicans aren’t competent enough to even get 1,000 people to show up in a nationwide protest to support them.
Republicans support torture and other mistreatments that once again clearly show mental illness is a prerequisite to become a reichwinger.
Republicans screw the whole economy for the promise of free money, showing what dopes keep biting, so I keep getting the Nigerian Spam!
Democrats got 300,000 protestors to take off time from their work, their families and their lives to demostrate these fascist morons!
SanDiego had more anti-war protestors alone than the entire national pro-war protest - what LOSERS!
Progressives rock, and republicans steal and block!
September 26th, 2005 at 8:16 pmRyan, please keep up the honorable fight, you're doing good and seem to be driving the bile belching reich wingnuts crazy.
I eschew all religions now, mainly because I don't understand how anyone can buy the "an invisible big daddy told me to tell you to pay me to tell you how to live your life and die for me when I start wars with people who don't pay me" line. Sheesh. But, like Ryan has shown, there are so ways to contradict any biblical point of view with another biblical point of view. I wonder while we don't pass a law requiring people to only worship people that are alive and can be asked directly what the hell they mean by this idea or that idea. This person interpreting scripture fighting another person's interpretation is just loony and a waste of intellectual energy.
NeD, sorry, you're just a brown shirt sicko. Darleen, sorry, you're still gonna die alone. Phinga Bheng or whatever the hell your handle is, sorry, the point of percentages at this point is moot when the slime ball you're trying to paint a rosy picture of is still in the process of meltdown. Let's talk after his impeachment in 2007.
Good night all.
September 26th, 2005 at 8:17 pmAn invertebrate - yeah that's him/her...
September 26th, 2005 at 8:18 pmAt this point you have to believe Bushies are getting some sort of Thrill from being wrong. Maybe its a Humiliation thing?
Bushies also apparently LOVE to hear lies and keep returning to those liars they KNOW will tell them the best ones.
September 26th, 2005 at 8:18 pm"Ryan, please keep up the honorable fight, you’re doing good and seem to be driving the bile belching reich wingnuts crazy."
My grandfather taught me to never pick a fight but to never be afraid to finish it! He was a tough old irish boxer, and I learned my lessons well. I don't go to republican sites and pick a fight, but when they bring their lies here - I'll be happen to pin their stupid fat heads to the mat!
September 26th, 2005 at 8:19 pmWell, Darleen. I assume you've read my repy to you in 144. I'm not surprised you have nothing to say.
September 26th, 2005 at 8:20 pmAnd lets contrast that with the lessons that MightyZionistHermaphrodite's grandmother taught her. I believe she said her grandmother taught her to hit first and not stop hitting till the other person couldn't move. I think the suicide bombers must have been taught the same lessons - figures...
Parents teach values they don't even know sometimes - thank goodness mine taught me to be honorable - it appears others haven't been so lucky!
September 26th, 2005 at 8:21 pm"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself the accomplice of liars and forgers"
Charles Peguy quotes (French Poet, Philosopher and Essayist, 1873-1914)
This is why I speak up!
September 26th, 2005 at 8:24 pmRepublicans are clearly not conservative, Bill.
* Taking a $400BB budget surplus and converting it into a $400BB deficit in 4 years. That wealth transfer went to the wealthiest 2% (welfare?), Republican business owners/contractors, Republican Pioneers, and Republican war profiteers.
* Adding Trillions to to the long term financial obligations of our kids and grandkids.
* Eroding our privacy.
* Growing the Federal bureaucracy
* Giving the finger to State's Rights
* Destroying the Environment
* Embarking on pie-in-the-sky nation building and reckless foreign entanglements.
Now, we know they certainly aren't liberal. Incompetent? No, that would only explain their handling of 9/11 and New Orleans. So the only accurate label I can ascribe to them is "criminal". And I don't think the GOP is much of a political Party today...Syndicate is much more accurate.
September 26th, 2005 at 8:26 pmDarleen,
Have any other 'outs' from the scriptures I posted? Or do you need to search your 'crib notes' since clearly you know nothing of the scriptures you seem to readily have hebrew for. Guess you didn't get that far in your propagandists guide to religion? Thought so!
When you've learned something useful, come back and talk to me - till then shut up and listen to those who actually know something!
September 26th, 2005 at 8:27 pmIB
I totally agree with you - great post!
September 26th, 2005 at 8:27 pm#264 Ryan
The Bible was originally written in Hebrew.
Want to explain to me why you believe that is an "out"?
meshugga
September 26th, 2005 at 8:31 pmThis is why I speak up!
Comment by Ryan Neat
"'Tis better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt."
September 26th, 2005 at 8:33 pm-- Mark Twain
#252
Ah, yes, the "tolerant" Left... attack peoples CHILDREN when they don't like the person's ideas.
And of COURSE, engage in classist, racist or sexist language in doing so.
I love the smell of irony in the afternoon.
September 26th, 2005 at 8:37 pmIcky trolls make thread too long and filled
September 26th, 2005 at 8:38 pmwith silly drivel!
Darleen,
Thanks for sharing why you should remain silent. I agree with Twain, you should have remained silent.
"The Bible was originally written in Hebrew."
That depends on whether you're a jew, a christian or a muslim, in which case it's probably multi-linguistic.
"Want to explain to me why you believe that is an “out�"
Because you're LOOKING for a justification to kill, when clearly other scriptures forbid you from doing so. You're looking for a loophole. Are you MightyZionistHermaphrodite? You sure do argue irrationally and by pretending to reframe the question. I hope your law firm gets better work out of you then you put here - because if I were a judge I'd smack you down for intentionally misrepresenting the case and presentation of erroneous and unrelated arguments! You aren't just in contempt of court, you're in contempt of reason!
September 26th, 2005 at 8:39 pm"Ah, yes, the “tolerant†Left… attack peoples CHILDREN when they don’t like the person’s ideas.
And of COURSE, engage in classist, racist or sexist language in doing so.
I love the smell of irony in the afternoon. "
And the smell of projection stinks even worse...
A rascist and classist republican who's desperate to find a reason to kill people is made because someone made a joke about them being ugly. I'd say someone must have hit too close to home! I'm sorry for your genepool - I hope they all have great personality - but if you're any sign, there's no hope!
Americans hate republicans, and they poll like Nixon with watergate!
Republicans aren’t competent enough to even get 1,000 people to show up in a nationwide protest to support them.
Republicans support torture and other mistreatments that once again clearly show mental illness is a prerequisite to become a reichwinger.
Republicans screw the whole economy for the promise of free money, showing what dopes keep biting, so I keep getting the Nigerian Spam!
Democrats got 300,000 protestors to take off time from their work, their families and their lives to demostrate these fascist morons!
SanDiego had more anti-war protestors alone than the entire national pro-war protest - what LOSERS!
Progressives rock, and republicans steal and block!
September 26th, 2005 at 8:42 pm"Icky trolls make thread too long and filled
with silly drivel!
Comment by afterthought "
That's because they look like fools today because they see there's no real support for their policies in america, in the polls, in demonstrations or ANYWHERE other than in their imaginations.
They desperately want to believe otherwise, so out of their own fear, frustation and feelings of inadequacy they come here to vent those weaknesses. Too bad for them that we see them for the desperate and stupid little trolls that they are!
Me, a hindu knows more about the Talmud than the jew - that's funny :)
September 26th, 2005 at 8:44 pmWell Ryan,
There is something different going on here today.
September 26th, 2005 at 8:47 pmI suppose it is to hard to defend Frist or "Drownie".
That depends on whether you’re a jew, a christian or a muslim, in which case it’s probably multi-linguistic.
Uh, WTF are you smoking or what mosque are you attending? Judaism predates Christianity which predates Islam. It is a fact that the Bible - the Old Testament - was written in HEBREW, starting approximately 3500 y/o (10 Commandments given to Moses) and the 39 books ALL IN HEBREW were completed about 500 BC.
Now, how does that make my statement That depends on whether you’re a jew, a christian or a muslim?
Oh, I know, some moslems believe even Jesus was a moslem just as they believe any little piece of land they once touched is forever Waqf (like Spain) and the kaffir must submit, convert or die. Doesn't change the fact of the history of the Bible or your abject foolishness in not even conceding that point.
September 26th, 2005 at 8:48 pmBecause you’re LOOKING for a justification to kill, when clearly other scriptures forbid you from doing so.
Put up or shut up.
And the legal system of the US doesn't agree with you either. Elsewise you'd be here condemning people who have killed others in self-defense.
Or do you? ARe you REALLY a natural-born pacifist?
Darwin usually takes care of people like you.
September 26th, 2005 at 8:51 pmBTW Ryan... why is it you are so anxious to diassociate Jews from the Bible?
issues?
September 26th, 2005 at 8:52 pmRN-
You are the mighty Troll Slayer tonight. You are on a roll my friend!
It's really gotta suck being an apologist for this administration these days. I mean, how much can the RNC be paying these people to take this abuse? Seeing the K-Port/Houston crowd getting all the really big financial bennies with no sweat or effort...and all these worker drones get is a crummy per post rate. It's really going to piss 'em off when the RNC outsources their posting job to India and they'll have to go back to bun prep at Mickey D's.
September 26th, 2005 at 8:53 pm"Uh, WTF are you smoking or what mosque are you attending? Judaism predates Christianity which predates Islam. It is a fact that the Bible - the Old Testament - was written in HEBREW, starting approximately 3500 y/o (10 Commandments given to Moses) and the 39 books ALL IN HEBREW were completed about 500 BC."
Actually christians call both the old and NEW testament the bible. We call the jewish section "the old testament", not the bible.
Or were you not aware of that.
And I'm aware of the creation of the old testament, how it was codified in Babylon, and how before it existed the Jews worshiped Ashera, but how Moses removed all recognition of this from the books in line with the cult of 'Aten' - the one true father in heaven. At which point, they stopped worshiping Ashera and her worship was outlawed (I bet you didn't know that).
I'm smoke the truth, you're smoking ignorance and arrogance - and it's time for you to go on the patch!
"Now, how does that make my statement That depends on whether you’re a jew, a christian or a muslim?"
Yes, because you used the word 'bible', and that means a different set of books to those 3 religions.
"Oh, I know, some moslems believe even Jesus was a moslem just as they believe any little piece of land they once touched is forever Waqf (like Spain) and the kaffir must submit, convert or die. Doesn’t change the fact of the history of the Bible or your abject foolishness in not even conceding that point. "
Wow, aren't we anti-semitic? Actually being hateful of arabs is also anti-semitic (you probably were unaware of that as well). Lets see how I can disect your rant - which still doesn't answer my question about the other biblical edicts that you not KILL. I'm assuming you never read those sections?
Now as for the 'claims' the muslims have on Israel, much the same could be said of the Jews. After all the old testament documents that Abraham was from Ur (modern Iraq) and they STOLE the land of israel from the phoenecians. This documented in YOUR book, so unless you say it lies, the arabs have as much right to the land as you do...
Frankly I think both groups should have a homeland, and I'm a 'rational zionist', where I believe a partitioning of the land as-per the UN resolution which DEMANDS it should be complied to.
September 26th, 2005 at 8:56 pmSorry to be so late here. Check these photos:
http://community.webshots.com/user/hirodog
It was very difficult to get a shot to really show
the vastness of the crowd(s) The entire route was full
I was somewhere in the middle and it took over 3 hours before the end reached the WH. See how much tiedye and crazed anarchists you can count!
"Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are [a] few other Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or business man from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid." - President Dwight D. Eisenhower, 11/8/54
September 26th, 2005 at 8:58 pmI really don't get trolls.
They spew vitriol to no avail.
What's the point.
Sometimes when they leave thay say
something like: "I was just trying to
save you all, but.....sob, sob....you
are all hopeless losers.....wah, wah.....
Those posts are so funny. NeD is good at
September 26th, 2005 at 8:58 pmthem.
Do the fax-bots send those with the spin-points?
Darleen-
Why not put your prodigious religious knowledge to work reforming all the lying hypocrites, short sellers, thieves, adulters, pedophiles, war mongers, and war profiteers that infest the Republican Syndicate these days? I know it might not pay well, but you'd be doing all of us a big favor.
September 26th, 2005 at 9:01 pm"Ryan… why is it you are so anxious to diassociate Jews from the Bible?
issues? "
Why are you such a paranoid stupid freak who makes irrational strawman arguments that clearly show defensive and irrational tendencies? I just pointed out that you were stupid and ignorant of the fact that the words you were using meant different things to different people, and that from a christian perspective you were wrong. The new testament was almost entirely written in Greek.
September 26th, 2005 at 9:01 pm"Put up or shut up."
I can see violence comes naturally to you. You are MightyZionistHermaphrodite aren't you?
"And the legal system of the US doesn’t agree with you either. Elsewise you’d be here condemning people who have killed others in self-defense."
That's true, but then again the legal system in Nazi germany didn't agree with me either. It's easy for governments to justify 'killing' people and not calling it murder, but it's creeps like you that always seem to find a way to do it in the face of overwhelming rationale and reasons not to...
"Or do you? ARe you REALLY a natural-born pacifist?"
I'm a hindu, why should I kill someone? What would I gain? If I die my soul lives on - so what benefit would I receive from murder?
See unlike you, I actually BELIEVE in my religion and the purity of soul that it can bring me.
"Darwin usually takes care of people like you."
Wow, a religious zealot who believes in darwin. You know if darwin is right, then your 'bible' is all just lying mythology - hadn't thought about that cognitive disconnect had you?
September 26th, 2005 at 9:05 pmOld # 54. If you are a concerned conservative/republican or whatever, try to bring your own party in line instead of wasting words here. Bush is not conservative, he's radical. He hijacked the Republican party with his compassionate conservative bullshit and his faith based crap. Nobody with any sense buys that load of manure. How else can you describe it? Do you think Bush is smart? If so then where does that leave you? Are you dumb or dumber? I know what Bush is. He has failed at everything. Name ONE thing this idiot has done right. Stood on the rubble of the WTC with a bull horn and put his arm around a few firemen? OOOhhh!! What a hero! He was nowhere to be found till he figured out it was safe to land a helicopter. It's time to open your eyes and see that you have been duped.
September 26th, 2005 at 9:05 pmafterthought,
They're almost always of 3 groups.
1) The truly clinically insane.
2) The religious zealots (see #1)
3) The greedy, cheep and selfish
I think the #3 come on, but usually leave quickly. They want to believe in free money and a government who protects it and only it - they're relatively harmless other than being stupid enough to vote for people who belong to groups #1 & #2.
September 26th, 2005 at 9:07 pm#279 Ryan
Actually being hateful of arabs is also anti-semitic
Wrong. Historically factually wrong.
And those that try that line of thinking are usually of the Judanhass persuasion.
Is that the issue you are confessing to here, Ryan?
The 10 Commandments are part of the Old Testament, which was written in Hebrew. You trying to say "heck, it wasn't Hebrew..not really..." is just another chunk of Judanhass.
Tell me about your tatoos. Got the NLR one yet? Since you're so concerned about felon voting, maybe it's a AB one?
Maybe its a GOOD thing you post anonymously, eh?
September 26th, 2005 at 9:10 pmRyan,
That makes a good deal of sense.
September 26th, 2005 at 9:12 pmI know many otherwise reasonable people
who seem to fall in group 3). Meaning they
are reasonable in most ways but are strong
supporters of people who seem to be obvious hacks.
I try to stay away from groups 1) and 2).
"Actually being hateful of arabs is also anti-semitic
Wrong. Historically factually wrong. "
Too bad you're as bad with the english dictionary as you are with the Talmud. You just can't do anything right today can you...
Semitic
1 : of, relating to, or constituting a subfamily of the Afro-Asiatic LANGUAGE FAMILY that includes Hebrew, Aramaic, Arabic, and Amharic
Someone who's SEMITIC belongs to this language family. Someone who's ANTI-SEMITIC is someone who hates members of this language family.
The Zionist retard loses again!
I'm a hindu you retarded moron - or can't you read that either?
September 26th, 2005 at 9:15 pmafterthought,
I've met people who fall in all 3 groups, I'm only willing to 'associate' with people in group 2.
I'm afraid MightyZionistHermaphrodite(Darleen) falls into both groups 1 & 2 from what I can see... They're the most dangerous, but also the rarest, thank goodness!
September 26th, 2005 at 9:17 pmRYAN, you Judanhass asshole
Try looking up the term ANTI-semite
the word was coined in 1879 by Wilhelm Marrih, in Germany, in order to give a kind of "scientific" gloss to the old JEWhate that abounded in the area. Hey, Jews couldn't help being inferior, it was just science!
September 26th, 2005 at 9:21 pmThe religious ones accuse others of being anti-religious as they use their religious dogma to people in concentration camps, kill/murder them and generally act unsocialized... Then anyone who tells them that they're an irrational zealot freak suddenly is anti-semitic or anti-christian or anti-islamic. Every religious group has hard right elements like this, even buddhists and hindus unfortunately. But in my experience, every religion actually forbids it, so the zealots always look for crazy 'loopholes' to support their terrorist behaviors.
Frankly I can't tell the difference from a right wing extremist zionist, and a palestinian suicide bomber. They both murder in the name of religion and land, and act just the same from where I sit. I know enough to also know that the MAJORITY of people on both sides would probably choose differently if they felt the could trust the other side. It's a major and dangerous leap of faith. Ireland has done it, and I hope someday the israelis and palestinians can. But right now both sides are too dominated by crazy rightwing groups to every reach a productive peace.
That's why I believe a forced separation by the UN is the only viable solution. It's like children who are fighting in the room. They can't grow up and act civilized - and instead yell he/she started it first - so you separate them! It's the only ADULT thing to do!
September 26th, 2005 at 9:23 pmI never post under any name but my own. And your host here can confirm that by looking at the IP addresses to the post.
I'm not afraid and I'm not anonymous...unlike..say "Ryan Neat"
September 26th, 2005 at 9:23 pm"RYAN, you Judanhass asshole
Try looking up the term ANTI-semite
the word was coined in 1879 by Wilhelm Marrih, in Germany, in order to give a kind of “scientific†gloss to the old JEWhate that abounded in the area. Hey, Jews couldn’t help being inferior, it was just science! "
I'm a hindu you retard bitch!
I'm also not an anti-semite, but you clearly are! I don't hate jews, or think they are inferior as a group. You as an individual however surely qualify!
September 26th, 2005 at 9:24 pmSeems to only be one troll left.
September 26th, 2005 at 9:25 pmA touch the deranged side it seems.
So how about that peace rally on Saturday?
Can you believe how many patriotic Americans
showed up to partake in their right to associate?
"I never post under any name but my own. And your host here can confirm that by looking at the IP addresses to the post.
I’m not afraid and I’m not anonymous…unlike..say “Ryan Neat†"
Neat is a family name you bigoted anti-irish whore!
September 26th, 2005 at 9:25 pmFrankly I can’t tell the difference from a right wing extremist zionist, and a palestinian suicide bomber.
Yet more proof of "Ryan" the coward's basic moral bankruptcy.
September 26th, 2005 at 9:25 pmIt means 'shephard', and considering what a stupid goyum you are, I was aptly named!
September 26th, 2005 at 9:25 pm"Seems to only be one troll left.
A touch the deranged side it seems."
Yeah, the right wing zionists are just as insane as the right wing islamicists. Both groups say you're anti their religion when you tell them they're stupid bigotted terrorists.
If I had such a problem with the jewish bible, I never would have studied it. It has LOTS of beautiful aspects, none of which radical zionists seem to practice...
September 26th, 2005 at 9:27 pm"Frankly I can’t tell the difference from a right wing extremist zionist, and a palestinian suicide bomber.
Yet more proof of “Ryan†the coward’s basic moral bankruptcy. "
Or that you're a radical terrorist...
The fact that you can't recognize that you're an insane terrorist just makes you more like Osama than you realize... The folks that call to 'kill is not murder in XYZ' all do so in the name of religion. And you're ALL MORALLY BANKRUPT! You aren't even acting human in my book, you're acting like animals performing a fantasy of violence...
September 26th, 2005 at 9:29 pmThat's what you claim, "Ryan"
"Click" is my family name...been here in America since 1697, brought as bond slaves. Came through England, probably from Norway. My family has had members fight in the Revolutionary war, Civil war (Union), WWI (one member was a Marine under Pershing in Verdun, France), WWII, Korea and Vietnam. I'm first cousin 7 generations removed from Daniel Boone and my uncle Dallas Click is retired Airforce, my father is a WWII and Korea vet.
My children are 3rd generation Irish on their father's side, so you can take your faux outrage over my calling you an anonymous coward (and you are..you have not a thing to prove YOU bona fides) and stuff it.
September 26th, 2005 at 9:32 pm"Ryan"
Explain to us all how if I kill someone in self-defense it is "murder in the name of religion."
the moral pretzel you twist yourself in will be amusing to watch.
September 26th, 2005 at 9:33 pmViolence begets violence, and only a fool doesn't know this. Apparently Darleen is today's fool...
In her twisted eyes she needs to put everyone in a box as a 'jew hater' who disagrees with her terrorism. I'm related to several jews thank you very much - and unlike you they are BEAUTIFUL PEOPLE! They even read the Talmud and behave morally. To my eyes you are nothing like them. I can no more recognize you as a jew, as I can recognize a Hindu who murders as a Hindu. The fact is, those people who do this are not spiritual beings, but instead they (you) act as animals.
That being said, I've already stated that I believe it's critical to have a safe and secure israel, but also a safe and secure palestine. Remember YOU stole their lands 50 years ago. Everyone who was raised in israel before that point only knew the land as theirs. This would be no different than someone coming to your house and seizing it for native americans - what would you do? Go to israel?
The reality is that you are an extremist, and the world needs less of people like you, not more of them!
September 26th, 2005 at 9:34 pmOkay, I hope our troll feels better now.
September 26th, 2005 at 9:35 pmIt doesn't really seem like you are really making whatever
point it is you are trying to make so maybe
you should take FUBAR Bush's advice and save
some energy?
Just heard that that Lynndie England was convicted and is made an example of. That’s very good news. Let this be a warning to the trolling scum that periodically infest these pages: when the time comes for accounts to be settled, those at the absolute bottom of the kleptocratic food chain - you - will certainly be the first, and possibly the only ones to pay for everyone else. And your “they told me to do it†defense will count just as much as hers did.
September 26th, 2005 at 9:38 pm"“Ryanâ€
Explain to us all how if I kill someone in self-defense it is “murder in the name of religion.â€
the moral pretzel you twist yourself in will be amusing to watch. "
I don't believe in killing someone in self defense. I don't believe in lethal force. The fact you BELIEVE that I'll somehow twist myself shows that you are a stupid radical just as I suspected.
What's sad is that the 'old testament' FORBIDS taking life in any case (including self defense), or did you forget that scripture I posted that you refused to respond to. Don't you remember: God alone is the Lord of life and death, according to the Scriptures. He alone can ‘kill and make alive’ (Deut 32:39; cf. 1 Sam. 2:6).
September 26th, 2005 at 9:38 pmIf you are an ex-con you can’t vote, but you are welcomed with open arms in the bush administration, the criminally incompetent alongside the simply incompetent. For those even more challenged there is plenty of positions available to troll on the thinkprogress blog - full-time or part-time - just don’t bring up that ‘minimum wage’ thing.
September 26th, 2005 at 9:40 pm"Okay, I hope our troll feels better now.
It doesn’t really seem like you are really making whatever
point it is you are trying to make so maybe
you should take FUBAR Bush’s advice and save
some energy?"
The troll discussion always breaks down into:
1) Abortion
2) Israel
3) Poor people and welfare cost too much
4) Black people scare me
5) Terrorists will kill us if the liberals are allowed to run the country
The conversations are all as equally stupid and illiterate. Retards like darleen who finds a new word like Judanhass come and spew THEIR brand of hatred accusing everyone being out to persecute them because they're an insane radical bitch/ass who says you should be allowed to KILL people according to their values.
September 26th, 2005 at 9:41 pmRyan
Most of the Jews in the ME prior to Israel's founding either were there as descendents of indigenous Jews or BOUGHT their land from Arab landlords.
Israel was not "stolen".
Lord, you have an issue with Jews which makes your claim of wanting a "secure" Israel just not credible.
But then, you're spinning, dodging and slithering away from every hard question telegraphs your "credibility" as valid as the name you claim "Ryan Neat".
September 26th, 2005 at 9:41 pm"Just heard that that Lynndie England was convicted and is made an example of. That’s very good news."
Poor stupid little hillbillie! I feel sorry for her!
She's borderline retarded their using her as a scapegoat is insane! If they really want to hang out a retarded person for this, they should impeach bush!
September 26th, 2005 at 9:42 pmTwo
the franchise of ex-felons varies from state to state. If it bothers you, take it up with your state representatives or start a movement to amend the US Constitution.
Gads, were you asleep during Civics class?
September 26th, 2005 at 9:43 pmNeat Trick! Crop them out and they don't exist. The brilliant minds of the strange radical right again.
September 26th, 2005 at 9:46 pm"Most of the Jews in the ME prior to Israel’s founding either were there as descendents of indigenous Jews or BOUGHT their land from Arab landlords.
Israel was not “stolenâ€."
Sure it was, twice.
The first time:
The old testament says that the Israelis took the land of canaan by force from the phoenicians by force. Abraham is listed as being from Ur (a city in Iraq).
The second time:
By force the israelis poured into israel and helped themselves to lands that the palestinians had occupied often for over 2000 years.
"Lord, you have an issue with Jews which makes your claim of wanting a “secure†Israel just not credible."
And yet it's true. You claim that you have a RIGHT to all of israel, I'm showing you that this claim is nonsense because it is NOT the historical homeland of your people. That being said, israeli's need a home, and since the phoenicians are no more as a distinct people, I think a partitioning of Israel is the most rational option.
"But then, you’re spinning, dodging and slithering away from every hard question telegraphs your “credibility†as valid as the name you claim “Ryan Neatâ€. "
Wow, is that what you call it when someone whips your ass in a debate! Well you're definitely a republican! Your distortions of the truth just never end!
September 26th, 2005 at 9:47 pmShe’s borderline retarded their using her as a scapegoat is insane! If they really want to hang out a retarded person for this, they should impeach bush!
Actually, Darleen had auditioned for the part - but she was not selected. The lack of intelligence was not a problem, but with her looks, faceless trolling is the only job open.
September 26th, 2005 at 9:49 pmSorry, the first paragraph above is a quote I forgot to attribute to Ryan Neat, #307 or so.
September 26th, 2005 at 9:50 pm"Two
the franchise of ex-felons varies from state to state. If it bothers you, take it up with your state representatives or start a movement to amend the US Constitution.
Gads, were you asleep during Civics class? "
I agree, or didn't you catch that earlier? Your reading comprehension seems weak, so you clearly misunderstood what I said. Let me state this in a language you can understand.
The US is the ONLY country in the world that doesn't allow felons to vote. This situation exists because there is no federal law that permits felons to vote, as there is for women's rights or african americans for instance. Therefore states interpret the constitution to mean they can restrict the rights to votes, although this has always been a 'dubious' excuse to allow more 'controllable' local officials to widespread take away voters rights.
The fact is the democracy was founded because of taxation without representation - which was seen as unconscionable, and yet that's exactly what we do to the part of society that has ALREADY PAID THEIR DEBT through a jail sentence has to endure.
September 26th, 2005 at 9:51 pmAnything else you need corrected on old radical terrorist of the zionist world?
September 26th, 2005 at 9:53 pmIf a thief is caught in the act of breaking into a house and is killed in the process, the person who killed the thief is not guilty (Exodus 22:2)
Plus capital punishment for murderers is so important a commandment given to mankind prior to existence of Jews (2nd to "be fruitful and multiply") it is listed in all five books of the Torah.
NO ONE seriously believes self-defense is murder. ANYONE that would refuse to help someone being killed for fear they might kill the perp is morally repugnant beyond words.
"Ryan", please don't reproduce. I'd worry about your children.
September 26th, 2005 at 9:53 pm"Most of the Jews in the ME prior to Israel’s founding either were there as descendents of indigenous Jews or BOUGHT their land from Arab landlords."
FYI, my fathers family came here as indentured slaves. They also fought in EVERY major war to defend our nation, excepting this one(thank goodnes). And despite the fact that I always believed in the need for an irish homeland free from english and scottish invaders (the current situation in northern ireland), I never spewed the kind of racist hatred that comes out of your foul mouth! You shame your religion and you shame humanity!
September 26th, 2005 at 9:56 pmOh WOW!! Cool! You guys have the really weird pyscho trolls here. Or troll anyway. Too Funny!!
September 26th, 2005 at 9:57 pmRyan
Your grasp of civics and law is about as good as your grasp of morality.
There are a lot of things even ex-felons who have "paid their debt to society" cannot ever engage in, or will have to do for the rest of their lives.
Child molesters, rapists and other sexual predators have to register with local police departments. They can never own firearms or possess amunition.
Ex-felons can never be admitted to the bar and may be barred from other professional licenses. Let alone ever get government security clearances.
September 26th, 2005 at 9:58 pm“Most of the Jews in the ME prior to Israel’s founding either were there as descendents of indigenous Jews or BOUGHT their land from Arab landlords.â€
Comment by Darleen — September 26, 2005 @ 9:41 pm
Then, due to republican 'economics', the U.S. will soon be part of China.
September 26th, 2005 at 9:59 pmTwo
I see you're but another anonymous poster
and a sexist, too, the usual bottom resort of attempting an attack on a woman's looks as if that MEANS something.
ah, the "tolerant" Left! The Soviet mindset lives.
September 26th, 2005 at 10:00 pmNow I am become death...r4ead point by point...
"Your argument is flawed because you use and unrelated statistic (the U.S. population) to support your conclusion that 300,000 is a small and insignificant number."
It's completely valid in my arguement...
How is that unrelated? The majority of America's don't believe in your cause...I'll throw this one in there for sh*ts and Grins...150,000 at the march and other placein the USA where against you!!! Can you prove otherwise? Nope. I hope you collected ticket stubs...damn their weren't any...you lose.
"Most people of normal intellect consider 300,000 to be a large gathering."
Yeah people with IQ's of 90 like yours...kido
I am not of normal intellect my IQ is 138...
"The type of fallacy exhibited in your argument is called a RED HERRING."
We are not talking about a concert or sporting event....RED HERRING...LOL
My arguement is not flawed...period! Problem is you can't argue with what I said unless you put in into your context which is not valid in MY arguement..sorry GED boy you can't win an arguement that way...facts speak for themselves...and polls can be skewed one way or the other(study them you may learn something)...I've been in Marketing for 20 years so don't try to pull your BS over on me!!!!
September 26th, 2005 at 10:02 pm"Plus capital punishment for murderers is so important a commandment given to mankind prior to existence of Jews (2nd to “be fruitful and multiplyâ€) it is listed in all five books of the Torah."
And yet we are the ONLY civilized society in the world that has it. Just because you are uncivilized, don't project that on the world. Besides, many people on death row are innocent and dozens have been proven innocent in recent years through improved technology. The fact you wish to MURDER an innocent person in the hopes you're KILLING an innocent one doesn't change the fact that dozens of innocent people have been MURDERED (23 at last count).
"NO ONE seriously believes self-defense is murder. ANYONE that would refuse to help someone being killed for fear they might kill the perp is morally repugnant beyond words."
I don't care what you call it. Your strawman argument is bogus and shows a need to 'win' an argument on your part so desperate that you're actually INCAPABLE of arguing it rationally. You are truly a stupid bitch!
Now your argument is that I would 'do nothing' to stop a murder for fear of killing. The question is would I do anything that I think would kill someone or even intentionally do so? No. But would I interfere to stop? Surely, if I could. But then how would I know that's what I'm doing? After all, what if the person who's being 'killed' is actually the killer and I do their work for them? Intentionally taking the life of another means you're playing god. You seem comfortable with dispensing death - but frankly, to me, that just makes you psychotic...
I would try to stop someone, but I would NOT do anything that I thought was killing them. The fact you can't distinguish this ambiguity or recognize it is clearly a symptom that you've lost your cookies...
"“Ryanâ€, please don’t reproduce. I’d worry about your children. "
I was about to say the same to you...
September 26th, 2005 at 10:03 pmAre you a closet feminist, troll-puke? That is a serious offense, you may be laid off the troll center for that, you know.
September 26th, 2005 at 10:04 pmNeoCon,
How are those 400 nerd friends of yours doing? Sure have a big FOLLOWING do you.
You're such a pathetic idiot...
"“Most people of normal intellect consider 300,000 to be a large gathering.â€
Yeah people with IQ’s of 90 like yours…kido
I am not of normal intellect my IQ is 138…"
And yet it's clear you don't know how to use any of it...
"My arguement is not flawed…period! "
Sure it is. It's a red herring. And actually the number has been revised to 500,000.
Last time I checked, any protest of that size is called a 'movement'. But then again, a math nerd is usually more about 'feeling' that he's right about something, than actually understanding what it means. Get a girlfriend (or boyfriend), what you posted is just crap. I hope you do better work for whoever you work for, because clearly all you know is bullcrap propagandist arguments...
September 26th, 2005 at 10:07 pm"Two
I see you’re but another anonymous poster
and a sexist, too, the usual bottom resort of attempting an attack on a woman’s looks as if that MEANS something.
ah, the “tolerant†Left! The Soviet mindset lives. "
It only means something if you don't have them... You clearly communicated everything that anyone would like to know...
September 26th, 2005 at 10:08 pmActually, aren't the rechpublikan scapegoats overwhelmingly - or at least disproportionately - female?
September 26th, 2005 at 10:08 pm"Ryan" comes up with the moral pretzel.
:clap:clap:clap:
A beautiful sight worthy of Professor Irwin Corey
You claim that the Bible doesn't allow for even a person to defend themselves from attack. I disagree. I still maintain that CONTEXT decides between a lawful killing or murder.
THE LAW recognizes if gangbanger A busts down the door of your house in a homeinvasion robbery, starts beating you and your family up, threatens to kill you and your efforts to stop him KILLS him, it is a lawful and MORAL killing.
None of the "I don't know, I might, I maybe, I might not" nonsense.
If you can't grasp the moral divide between a lawful killing and murder, then why in heaven's name should you be considered as anything but a moral fool on larger issues?
September 26th, 2005 at 10:10 pm"The Soviet mindset lives. "
It sure does, they were extremists and insane just like you... The NeoCons 'used' to be liberal jews you know, now they're right wing fascist nazis and followers of LeoStrauss. It's interesting to see what jewish people did (or didn't) learn from their experience with that madman... Emulating him wouldn't have been one I would have expected from a 'rational' person - but then again, you aren't rational...
September 26th, 2005 at 10:10 pm#326
I've been a feminist before they ever coined the word, sexist pig.
The word doesn't mean what you think it means.
September 26th, 2005 at 10:14 pmI was at the march in DC on Sept 24.
September 26th, 2005 at 10:15 pmA person literally couldn't move more than a few inches at a time due to the crowd. I figured there were anywhere between 300,000 to 500,000 people there. The MSM news coverage was absurd. Today, rush limbaugh actually said there were 30 people there. 30. Is he on drugs (oh, wait, I forgot who I was talking about).
Best signs I saw there:
MAKE LEVEES, NOT WAR.
MAKE COHERENT SENTENCES NOT WAR.
AMERICA, WAKE UP AND SMELL THE TREASON.
IMPEACH THE ROVE-ing BAND OF IDIOTS
the "Ryan" sex "liberal jews are now fascist nazis"
Please seek help for your "Jew" issues.
At least get the NLR and AB tatoos removed.
September 26th, 2005 at 10:15 pm"You claim that the Bible doesn’t allow for even a person to defend themselves from attack. I disagree. I still maintain that CONTEXT decides between a lawful killing or murder."
I did? When? Oh wait, yeah this is where the pathetic bag of crap who just lost the argument tries to put words in the other side's mouth because they lost...
Defense and murder you see as the same? Wow, you're even more of a stupid sick terrorist than I thought. You ignore the CLEAR prohibition against taking any life, and go straight for the case where you feel safe to do this. No wonder the palestinians feel you guys are unreasonable if you all argue and lie like this! Clearly they only get to deal with the radical nutcases like you and not the rational and reasonable jewish people that I personally know...
"THE LAW recognizes if gangbanger A busts down the door of your house in a homeinvasion robbery, starts beating you and your family up, threatens to kill you and your efforts to stop him KILLS him, it is a lawful and MORAL killing."
The law, who's talking about the law? Morality and the law are ENTIRELY different things? No wonder you're such a disturbed person, you can't even argue in a straight line. I feel killing is immoral. The bible agrees with me. If you wish to argue you can do it because it's 'legal', well killing jews was 'legal' during the nazis, but to a MORAL person this was clearly wrong. The fact is that you seem incapable of distinguishing morality, and instead always resort back to the current laws to justify what's CLEARLY immoral.
"None of the “I don’t know, I might, I maybe, I might not†nonsense."
Huh, you're not even making coherent sentences. You've clearly lost it...
"If you can’t grasp the moral divide between a lawful killing and murder, then why in heaven’s name should you be considered as anything but a moral fool on larger issues? "
Who says there is one? The construct between killing and murder were created to make murderers feel justified for their actions. Killing is immoral - pure and simple. You may not believe that, but YOUR bible disagrees with you. I already showed you the passages. Just because you want to worm and wiggle around with some 'moral relativism', doesn't change this fact. You are an IMMORAL creature.
September 26th, 2005 at 10:16 pm"the “Ryan†sex “liberal jews are now fascist nazisâ€
Please seek help for your “Jew†issues.
At least get the NLR and AB tatoos removed. "
Not my issues, and I don't even know what tatoos you're referring to. Clearly you have NLR/AB issues, whatever those are that have made it impossible for you to think clearly...
And if you stopped spouting the stupid moral relativism of the NeoCon nazis, then I'd stop pointing out that you were doing so.
Here's a book that explains the relationship of Leo Strauss (a self avowed jewish nazi), the Neo Cons, the PNAC and the right wing fascists that now run the country. You seem to prefer to live in your stupidity and ignorance, but I'll provide the link in case a more reasonable person reads it.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0312217838/qid=1127787870/sr=8-6/ref=pd_bbs_6/104-2152585-7756722?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
September 26th, 2005 at 10:19 pm"I’ve been a feminist before they ever coined the word, sexist pig.
The word doesn’t mean what you think it means."
You know it isn't moral for you as a woman to speak out in public. The 'bible' says you should hold your tongue in public. Clearly you are 'selectively' religious and moral.
September 26th, 2005 at 10:20 pmAnd just so you know, I disagree with your bible on many points, including you holding your tongue. In my book you should be allowed to make an anti-irish anti-semitic, anti-islamic, anti-palestinian rants as you like. It just lets everyone know what an insane nutjob you are, and that the real problem with the world are zealots like you and not specific groups...
September 26th, 2005 at 10:21 pmNLR = nazi lowriders
AB = Aryan Brotherhood - white supramicist prison gang
I usually hear your type of rhetoric from these guys. See I work in the judicial system, not make stories up about how it works.
Poverty doesn't cause crime, crime causes poverty.
Yes, a generality, but one with a solid basis in reality.
Reality and the "Ryan" are not much acquainted.
September 26th, 2005 at 10:22 pmTroll: don't even try to put that label on me. Take it to your reichwing friends. And remember what I said earlier: when the time comes for accounts to be settled with this administration, the troll scum at the absolute bottom of the kleptocratic food chain - that means you - will certainly be the first, and possibly the only ones to pay for everyone else, if they are female all the better for them. And your “they told me to do it†defense will count just as much as poor Lynndie's did.
September 26th, 2005 at 10:24 pm"I usually hear your type of rhetoric from these guys. See I work in the judicial system, not make stories up about how it works."
bahaha, that's funny! A hate filled zionist who believes in killing is calling a hindu who believes in nonviolence and has jewish relatives an 'aryan nation' person. I knew that republicans and reichwingers 'stretched', but you're truly insane!
"Poverty doesn’t cause crime, crime causes poverty."
I agree, so why are you a stupid republican? Poverty increases every time one is in office.
"Yes, a generality, but one with a solid basis in reality.
Reality and the “Ryan†are not much acquainted. "
I live in it, clearly you don't. You've been around too many criminal types, they've made you believe killing is 'moral', you've truly lost your way!
September 26th, 2005 at 10:26 pm"Ryan"
I have never claimed to be "religious" and morality can be based on religious attained values, but I don't care WHERE you got your values, only WHAT those values are.
And anyone that declares a person is not allowed to defend themselves, even if it means the death of attacker, does not value humanity.
He who is merciful to the cruel will end up by being cruel to the merciful
Sad sad "Ryan" the faux Irish Neat.
Delude yourself some more.
September 26th, 2005 at 10:27 pmtwo,
The problem with rightwingers, whether they be islamicists, christians or zionists is that they tend to always think that anyone who criticizes their extreme behavior is 'defending' the other extreme group they hate. They can't recognize that to a sane and rational person both extreme groups look equally as nuts!
That's the cognitive disconnect. A NAZI who believes in reichwing policies of the NeoCon is so stupid and twisted they call a pascifist liberal a nazi! Wow, now that's a perverse mind!
September 26th, 2005 at 10:28 pm"Ryan"
I guess this is what it boils down to. You truly believe that no killing is ever moral, even to save one's own life.
You are one creepy guy/gal. I want to see which of the cronies on this thread would ever support your "value."
September 26th, 2005 at 10:29 pmOh, BTW "Ryan"
I guess your "no killing is moral" would make you a radical pro-life banning abortion from the moment of conception. Right?
September 26th, 2005 at 10:30 pm"I have never claimed to be “religious†and morality can be based on religious attained values, but I don’t care WHERE you got your values, only WHAT those values are.
And anyone that declares a person is not allowed to defend themselves, even if it means the death of attacker, does not value humanity."
Only you declared that because you lost the argument. If you believe 'murder' is the only defense you have, then clearly you intend to murder in the first place...
If you believe the only way to get out is to kill the attacker, then you clearly WANT to kill the attacker. Your premise is as twisted and illogical as that pretzel you seem so fond of... Just because you WANT to kill someone, don't confuse that with justification to do so - because there is none.
September 26th, 2005 at 10:30 pm"I guess your “no killing is moral†would make you a radical pro-life banning abortion from the moment of conception. Right?"
A fetus is not a child until it has brainwaves. That's called a rational response and a scientific one - but reichwingers seem to usually be missing the ability to be either rational or scientific or moral for that matter.
September 26th, 2005 at 10:31 pmHow about you? I bet you're a big old anti-abortionist who carries signs of 8 month old fetuses and pretend like they're 2 month old. Come on, you're a fanatic there aren't you? You can tell us how crazy you are - come on!
September 26th, 2005 at 10:33 pmIf you believe ‘murder’ is the only defense you have, then clearly you intend to murder in the first place…
What the hell? So if a woman can't fight off her rapist it's because she really wanted to be raped in the first place???
Damn, stay out of MY state.
You obviously have never been in, or had a family member in, a desperate life/death situation.
You one morally twisted dude.
September 26th, 2005 at 10:34 pm"He who is merciful to the cruel will end up by being cruel to the merciful
Sad sad “Ryan†the faux Irish Neat.
Delude yourself some more. "
Oh please, that's crap. Everyone is crule or merciful at some point. That kind of crap just goes to show you how insane you are...
September 26th, 2005 at 10:34 pmRyan
You can go to my blog and confirm it. I believe that for adult women of a sound mind during the first trimester the decision to carry or terminate a pregnancy is solely and totally theirs.
And you didn't answer my question. Do you believe abortion should be banned from conception? Come on, you old, people-are-not-allowed-to-defend-themselves pacifist you.
September 26th, 2005 at 10:36 pm"If you believe ‘murder’ is the only defense you have, then clearly you intend to murder in the first place…
What the hell? So if a woman can’t fight off her rapist it’s because she really wanted to be raped in the first place???"
If she can't 'fight' him, how can she 'kill' him? The pretzel gets tighter for the self defeating idiot...
"Damn, stay out of MY state."
You mean your state of mind? I always avoid crazy town as much as I can...
"You obviously have never been in, or had a family member in, a desperate life/death situation.
You one morally twisted dude. "
Actually I have, and I'm sure I have more experience with this than you ever will have (hopefully for you). The fact is the person who believes killing is 'ok' is the person I want to avoid (that would be you), because it's how gangbangers justify what they do, how terrorists justify what they do, how innocent people die on death row, and how religious holy wars start. YOU are the truly dangerous one - and yet I would still defend you from someone who was trying to murder you. You probably WOULD be cruel for that kind of mercy, but I'm in it for my own morality - that's what a TRULY moral person does. Something you clearly will never understand.
September 26th, 2005 at 10:38 pm"I believe that for adult women of a sound mind during the first trimester the decision to carry or terminate a pregnancy is solely and totally theirs."
Why the first trimester? That's a rather arbitrary stance.
"And you didn’t answer my question. Do you believe abortion should be banned from conception? Come on, you old, people-are-not-allowed-to-defend-themselves pacifist you. "
Huh, oh wait, I used a scientific term, that's why you didn't understand. I'll dumb it down for you. Brainwaves don't begin until the 28/32 week. I see no moral conflict up until that point.
September 26th, 2005 at 10:40 pmMY LETTER TODAY TO THE LOS ANGELES TIMES:
September 26th, 2005 at 10:41 pmIn what was likely an attempt at 'balance,' the Times published an article on Monday on the PRO-war rally in Washington, an article of about half the column-inches as Sunday's piece on the ANTI-war rallies. Per the Associated Press, the Washington anti-war rally drew roughly 100,000, whereas the pro-war rally drew 400. Monday's Times also mentioned a weekend Komen Foundation charity walk in Newport Beach that drew 'thousands,' a random charity walk in a random city on a random weekend. It seems clear that the Washington pro-war rally was comparatively a non-event -- an embarrassing dud that drew 1/50th of their goal of 20,000 -- but that didn't prevent them from garnering press that was wildly unproportional to their efforts, presumably in the name of 'balance.'"
"“Ryanâ€
I guess this is what it boils down to. You truly believe that no killing is ever moral, even to save one’s own life.
You are one creepy guy/gal. I want to see which of the cronies on this thread would ever support your “value.†"
Someone who arbitrarily wish the right to decide when it's ok to KILL is telling someone else they're creepy? You live in a twisted world! You are truly a SICK SICK person.
September 26th, 2005 at 10:41 pmtwo,
Notice how the idiot brought up abortion? These guys are like clockwork. Fascist reichwingers are nutjobs - one and all!
September 26th, 2005 at 10:42 pm"I have never claimed to be “religious†and morality can be based on religious attained values, but I don’t care WHERE you got your values, only WHAT those values are."
You obviously can't be either religious or moral if you support the war criminals in this administration. They lied about the causus belli and are making big money building/destroying/rebuilding the ME. It's seems to be the official Republican business model.
September 26th, 2005 at 10:42 pmIB,
Reichwingers are always moral relativists. They'll dig up some obscure law or religious text that they say means they have the right to wage war, kill people, torture them or do other immoral acts. They're all sickos!
September 26th, 2005 at 10:44 pmI don't care what gangbangers or terrorists think. They are criminals and evil people. They have no influence on MY morality.
"Killing" is based on CONTEXT, and to say that a person, being attacked by a gangbanger bent on murder, kills his attacker is the legal/moral equivalent OF a murderer is the type of fundamentalist insanity you ostensibly rail against.
You are as fascinating as a car wreck.
September 26th, 2005 at 10:47 pm"Ryan"
I am not a moral relativist. I deal in moral clarity.
You deal in a strange, morally unsupportable fundamentalism in order to "punish" people who disagree with you twisted thinking.
Oh. Godwin's law yet again.
September 26th, 2005 at 10:50 pmIB
Ah, the "9/11 was an inside job" conspiracist meanderings!
Jolly good to know what motivates you.
September 26th, 2005 at 10:50 pm331
September 26th, 2005 at 10:51 pmBest sign i've seen was in ny at repub convention:"I COULD SHIT A BETTER PRESIDENT">
"Ryan"
I assume you consider America's war on Nazi Germany the moral equivalent of Germany's war on its neighbors and on Jews?
September 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm"Ryan"
But I thought your stance was one of fundie concerning human beings.
Are you saying an embryo is not a human being? What is it then? Chicken? Fish? Jew (knowing howyou feel about Jooos)?
September 26th, 2005 at 10:56 pm"Ah, the “9/11 was an inside job†conspiracist meanderings!
Jolly good to know what motivates you. "
Ahhh, no. I just know the Bush family history. Sam, Prescott, GHWB, and Dimson. All made money on killing. Of course, we also have world-class war profiteers in Dick Cheney and Don Rumsfield. Making a buck by selling out the US is what these traitors do best.
Why do you apologize for them and hate America so much?
September 26th, 2005 at 11:11 pmAnyone want to fix up Ryan and Darleen yet? Cuz I think something's going on between the two of them.
September 26th, 2005 at 11:14 pm"I assume you consider America’s war on Nazi Germany the moral equivalent of Germany’s war on its neighbors and on Jews?"
I don't, but do you agree that America's war on Iraq is the moral equivalent to Germany's war on Poland? If not, why not?
September 26th, 2005 at 11:14 pmJesus,
September 26th, 2005 at 11:16 pmthere were more people on the streets of NYC Saturday. Looks like a solid 50,000 anti-americans, anti-semites, pro-fascist, child murder enablers. As to the biggest rally, hell, there were more at the first rally to try and stop the war in 02. Seems like the numbers are WAAAAY down......
DARLEEN POSTS ON LGF:
#166 Darleen 9/26/2005 08:08PM PDT
Hi LGFer's, I need to ask for a bit of help.
I've been fighting the good fight on a leftard site that attacked Charles and a new meme has been picked up.
(No, Darleen. Exposed Charles' LIES).
The Leftards are saying it has been "proved" that the DC marches were 500,000 strong, and the pro-victory people were only 400.
(Someone claiming 500,000 is not "Leftards saying anything has been "proved", but keep lying).
They've seized on the 400 as "proof" that "no one" supports the war and anyone that does has to be a paid "rethuglican" war criminal. They love the word "reichwing".
(One poster, you dishonest person).
But I need some numbers help. I thought it was more than 400...but are there ANY authoritative numbers out there?
---------------------
Darleen, you are beyond pathetic. Scurry back to the LGF echo-chamber, why don't you. You are a deceptive, dishonest person.
September 26th, 2005 at 11:24 pm"I don’t care what gangbangers or terrorists think. They are criminals and evil people. They have no influence on MY morality.
“Killing†is based on CONTEXT, and to say that a person, being attacked by a gangbanger bent on murder, kills his attacker is the legal/moral equivalent OF a murderer is the type of fundamentalist insanity you ostensibly rail against.
You are as fascinating as a car wreck. "
Oh please, anyone who believes it's moral to kill is an evil person at that moment. Had it ever dawned on you that non-lethal force is an option? Perhaps you're just too stupid to have ever thought of the possibility?
"I assume you consider America’s war on Nazi Germany the moral equivalent of Germany’s war on its neighbors and on Jews?
Comment by Darleen"
Sure. Israel invaded first - that's pre-emtive warfare, which is illegal by the laws of the Talmud, and international laws. Its no different from Iraq invading Kuwait.
"I am not a moral relativist. I deal in moral clarity.
You deal in a strange, morally unsupportable fundamentalism in order to “punish†people who disagree with you twisted thinking.
Oh. Godwin’s law yet again. "
here's clarity. Murder is wrong, no matter who does it. It's one thing for people to die accidentally, another to take their lives and know you're doing it. The fact is killing is immoral, and anyone who argues otherwise is a moral relativist who wants to muddy not clarify anything.
"IB
Ah, the “9/11 was an inside job†conspiracist meanderings!
Jolly good to know what motivates you. "
You seem to have no problem with conspiracy rantings about me? Why is that OK? Oh right, because you're 'righteous'. You're just a stupid hypocrit.
"But I thought your stance was one of fundie concerning human beings.
Are you saying an embryo is not a human being? What is it then? Chicken? Fish? Jew (knowing howyou feel about Jooos)? "
There you go again trying to paint a picture you can live with... WHY would I be on a liberal site with those views you stupid terrorist whore? An embryo is biological, brain waves are metaphysical and more than that. If you don't believe this, then why do YOU support a 3 month window? Frankly this is the only place we'll probably have any common ground, but you and your stupid preconceptions will clearly prevent you from having any rational discussion about it.
As for the JOOOS, frankly the jewish people have historically been one of the most noble, peaceful and moral people on the planet. They have social consciences, are caring and kind. But you don't resemble ANY of those traits, so in my eye you are a jew in name only, in the same way that osama is a muslim in name only. You're both whackjobs that don't deserve to associate with your religion!
September 26th, 2005 at 11:25 pmAs for any stupid blog you have, are you crazy? You have nothing rational to say - it belongs up there with the pro-war rally that only 400 people showed up to! A place for the fringe, the lunatic and the morons!
Democrats rule! Up to 500,000 in one story compared to 400 from the whack job hate and fake group! Good job liberals! Keep up the good work!
September 26th, 2005 at 11:26 pm"Looks like a solid 50,000 anti-americans, anti-semites, pro-fascist, child murder enablers."
I know the birds-eye view makes grand-level details hard to pick up, but I assure you there were, at most, only a few hundred Republicans at the rally Saturday. Even fewer on Sunday.
September 26th, 2005 at 11:27 pmAnd when you were STUPID enough to disrespect me and call me creepy because I choose peace over killing, you disrespect almost 1 billion hindus and buddhists, as well as christians! You probably don't know this, but Jesus died because he held those values. I'm sure right wing nut jobs like you claimed he was creepy because he wouldn't kill the romans - but he left an example of a better, more rational way to live. And his example transcended and transformed the world for the better in many ways. Because of it you have womens rights today, and yet you disrespect that legacy and all that it stands for in your stupidity and hatred!
You are truly an immoral and irrational beast of a person, and you exemplify everything that is wrong with republican and RIGHT WING (not to be confused with the more SANE) zionist values!
September 26th, 2005 at 11:30 pm"Jesus,
there were more people on the streets of NYC Saturday. Looks like a solid 50,000 anti-americans, anti-semites, pro-fascist, child murder enablers. As to the biggest rally, hell, there were more at the first rally to try and stop the war in 02. Seems like the numbers are WAAAAY down……"
The republicans didn't march on saturday, they marched on sunday! The description you give of who was there on saturday makes it sound like a republican convention - you've clearly confused the days and the number of attendees...
September 26th, 2005 at 11:31 pmMark,
How much you want to bet that she never even followed the link that PROVED the NeoCon movement is a Nazi movement? She's so stupid and hateful! What a BITCH!
September 26th, 2005 at 11:33 pm"Anyone want to fix up Ryan and Darleen yet? Cuz I think something’s going on between the two of them.
Comment by Smartass "
That's funny, but I don't do mercy fvcks :)
September 26th, 2005 at 11:35 pm"But I need some numbers help. I thought it was more than 400…but are there ANY authoritative numbers out there?"
You sure do need some help. Hell, I think we were being downright liberal with the 400 number.
Take away the media and the organizing cheerleaders, you might be hard pressed to meet the numbers at the 1st Pro-war Porta-Pottie Rally.
Actually, the C-SPAN camera angle was generous. Check this link to see a better perspective of the "crowd". You Republicans sure know how to turn 'em out.
September 26th, 2005 at 11:42 pmSorry, here's the link: http://www.canofun.com/blog/videos/ProWarRallysep2505.wmv
September 26th, 2005 at 11:43 pmJust so everyone knows, the protest saturday was the largest since VIETNAM!!!
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/092205F.shtml
Thank you Cindy for reminding americans how to be brave and peaceful in the face of senseless violence! Gandhi would have been proud! His inspiration of MLK inspired a previous generation, thank you for reminding america of the power of nonviolence - you are truly an inspiration!
September 26th, 2005 at 11:44 pmI've been to Spartan Stadium (capacity (over the years) 72,500 to 76,000)for more than 100 games over the years and to Michigan Stadium (also known as the big house; capacity over 105,000) several times.
I gotta say that that crowd is way, way over 100,000. Looks at the very LEAST over 200,000.
September 26th, 2005 at 11:47 pmWhile we're quoting posting LGF posts, let's quote this one:
"#195 Iron Fist 9/26/2005 08:40PM PDT
#166 Darleen,
Hey Dolly!
Just tell them that they show up in numbers to scream, and yell, and publically masturbate.
We show up in numbers to firefights.
We have jobs. We have to work.
They get to go look pretty for the cameras before they go home and crash at Mom and Dad's pad (this is especially embarrassing for those who are over forty :-).
The truth is that only L³eftists think street protests matter much. If the numbers of people at a public gathering mattered, the NCAA football program would be the largest, most powerful political force in America.
Last time I checked, even here in Tennessee the UT coach doesn't run the show. Mass gatherings like that are really meaningless. They are opiates for the masses, which is why Hitler and Stalin (and every dictator since) loved them.
What Chamberlain and Armistead did at Gettysburg mattered far more. Chamberlain held the flank, and Armistead almost took the Center. In both cases the issue was decided at bayonet point.
They can get back to me when they get serious. Their numbers only matter if they have the guts to show up on the battlefield, and these people don't.
They've already spent a decade proving they can't win elections. All they can do is look nutty for the cameras.
Whee."
September 26th, 2005 at 11:47 pmFor contrast to see how America was celebrating a rally for Peace on Saturday, check this out. A great scene where a real reformed ex-Republican Christian explains the facts of live to some RW knucle-draggers in attendence.
http://www.mykeru.com/index.html
September 26th, 2005 at 11:50 pmWell, it's been 375 posts, and No One has brought up the fact that the National Book Festival ran the same day. Attendance the last two years averaged 75,000. And you most assuredly would have had spillover, both ways.
The Mediacrats did everything they could to fudge that number. We know, and hope you will learn, that means the actual headcount was WAY under the stated goal.
Which jibes with relatively small headcounts in other cities.
September 26th, 2005 at 11:52 pmWow, with comments like these from the left, I am SO glad I left the Democratic party!
As I'm sure General Honore would say, you folks are sincerely "STUCK ON STUPID!"
My Lord! Some of you try to say that 100,000 or even 500,000 of you showed up for your little anit-war, anti-Bush, pro-Hitler, pro-Palestinian, pro-Communist, pro-drugs, anti-sanity rally/freelove fest.
Then, you say that "only" a few hundred Republicans (are you really sure that they're Republicans and not just pissed off Democrats and Independents???) staged their own "Pro-War" protest. First of all, get one fact through your fuck!ng skulls: there is NO such thing as a "Pro-War" protest!!! No one, and I mean no one - with the exception perhaps of a Klingon - is "pro" war! Did hundreds, or thousands, or hundreds of thousands stage "Pro-War" protests during World War II!?!? Of course not.
Get a grip...
Or, better yet, continue behaving like the immature juvenile gutter scum you so accurately portray yourselves as on the nightly news. And, keep embracing the radical elements of the left. Please! Embrace it more!! You've consistently lost more and more political positions throughout the United States since the end of the failed Carter administration. Keep up the good work!
We'll be seeing you in '08!!
September 26th, 2005 at 11:53 pmcal,
Multiple sources say it was 500,000 - the 100,000 was a 'press' estimate from one source that stuck - but most likely it was based on the fact that they had requested a permit for 100,000 people because that's what was expected number wise.
September 26th, 2005 at 11:53 pmWhile we're quoting LGF posts, here's another:
"#211 Gang of One 9/26/2005 08:56PM PDT
#195 Iron Fist
Add to your dead-on post that we show up in numbers to rescue victims of natural disasters, contribute our hard earned income to relief angencies and open our homes to the homeless.
We show up in numbers to to dig out the remains of fellow human beings from the rubble of destroyed towers and office buildings.
We show up in numbers to grow the food, harvest the crop, and bring it to their cities so that they don't starve.
We show up in numbers to do all the things they hate us for not having done to their ever-changing standards and having the temerity to reflect on our mistakes and perfecting the solutions.
We lead. They can't even follow."
September 26th, 2005 at 11:55 pmMultiple sources, not to mention the AERIAL PHOTOGRAPHS, show less than 20,000 in attendance. If you figure an additional 30,000 people milling about on their own (and that's being "liberal"), then there were 50,000 MAX.
500,000?!?! Wow, interested in buying a bridge??
September 26th, 2005 at 11:55 pm#104 Ryna Neat
Based upon the MSM's own photographs of your alleged "demonstrations," I'd have to conclude that your "movement" is more bowel related than protest related.
BTW, I fought for your right to protest. And, I will fight for that right should I ever be called upon again. All I ask is that you don't make an idiot of yourself doing it.
September 26th, 2005 at 11:59 pmOh, by the way folks, you're photo demonstrates our point, not ours.
The National Mall can hold about a million people or so. Check out the "I Have a Dream" photos to see what that looks like. The Ellipse is a fraction of the Mall. And it's only half full. Doubling the number to account for the street, and you're still only looking a 50,000 or so.
As as I pointed out a little earlier, the National Book Festival happened the same day. Sorry, but you DO NOT get to count their folks.
September 27th, 2005 at 12:00 amUmm did you not see the entire northward street on the right? It's filled with people too. Or did you not notice that? You should look a little closer next time.
September 27th, 2005 at 12:01 amI'll answer this stupid post before the crazy woman can bring it on...
"We show up in numbers to firefights."
Why don't you let firefighters do that? After all, I'm sure all of those bluecollar democrats are better suited to doing the job than a wanna-be...
"We have jobs. We have to work."
On sunday? Wow the republican economy has clearly destroyed your lives - I feel sorry for you!!!
"Last time I checked, even here in Tennessee the UT coach doesn’t run the show. Mass gatherings like that are really meaningless. They are opiates for the masses, which is why Hitler and Stalin (and every dictator since) loved them."
Really, is that why they brought about the end to vietnam, and the civil rights movement? If they were SO ineffective, why did they reach the goals? We call this a cognitive disconnect...
"What Chamberlain and Armistead did at Gettysburg mattered far more. Chamberlain held the flank, and Armistead almost took the Center. In both cases the issue was decided at bayonet point."
Duh, obscure distraction.
The fact is the reichwing couldn't even mobilize a few hundred people on a SUNDAY when the entire east coast is just a few hours away. You should REALLY feel embarrassed! I know I'm embarrassed for you! You look like an idiot!
"They can get back to me when they get serious. Their numbers only matter if they have the guts to show up on the battlefield, and these people don’t."
Battlefield? Is that meant to be a metaphor or real? I assume this freak was referring to the elections - more democrats showed up than republicans, so clearly this is another delusion.
"They’ve already spent a decade proving they can’t win elections. All they can do is look nutty for the cameras."
Actually all that's been proven is that republicans STEAL elections, nothing more. They suck in the polls, both literally and figuratively. Without diebold, republicans would be as marginal as the american communist party!
"They’ve already spent a decade proving they can’t win elections. All they can do is look nutty for the cameras."
Have they seen bush, cheney and frist lately? Nutty and republican is a synonym!
September 27th, 2005 at 12:03 am"Based upon the MSM’s own photographs of your alleged “demonstrations,†I’d have to conclude that your “movement†is more bowel related than protest related."
BTW, I fought for your right to protest. And, I will fight for that right should I ever be called upon again. All I ask is that you don’t make an idiot of yourself doing it. "
Why should I when you're doing such a good job of being an idiot yourself? I support your right to be a retarded rightwing moron, but I don't support your right to be a fascist like the rest of the administration seems to ascribe to. If you REALLY support the values you say, you'd be a liberal and not support a NeoCon fascist!
September 27th, 2005 at 12:06 am#143 - hey, now. I was homeschooled for a couple years, and I turned out fine. Ditto for practically all the other homeschoolers I met. Don't lump us all in with people who can't quite grasp some key American concepts (original and adopted)(like, say, "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" or "what you do unto the least, you do unto me").
#(unknown) - Morality... oh, now there's a fun discussion. After all, though thesis/counterthesis/synthesis ideas grow stronger... and what could be better for oneself than a stronger sense of morality? Let's start with the basis; what is the key to morality? What singular principle can sum up the focus of any moral decision you make? (genuinely curious -- I'm mostly rules/acts utilitarian, so I focus upon "benefit" to people... but what constitutes "benefit"? Is it even possible to strongly define it?)
#(unknown again) - Evil? Sure, I would say that some of those who are terrorists and support them I would judge to be "evil" (to me, it means a range of sociopathic tendencies). Most are simple... human. As for the evil ones... I would prefer to live and let live, really, but if they attempt to harm me or mine, I will work to eliminate the threat (preferably peacefully -- less messy). To me, terrorism (and terrorists) are like mad dogs. If they become a threat you shoot them (quickly and painlessly). There's no point in hating a mad dog, is there? And torturing it isn't going to do anyone any good, and probably does some not-good things to you. You wish it wasn't mad, and you wish you didn't have to kill it, but you do anyway because it needs to be done. In this case, I don't see the Iraqi insurgency as evil in and of itself -- but if I were a soldier over there, I would do whatever was necessary to protect myself, my comrades and my charges. Hatred would just get in the way. Hatred tends to lead to atrocities... which tends to lead to the creation of more (and unnecessary) enemies. You can't go through life without making enemies (whether you're an individual or a nation), but there's no point in being stupid and making more if it's unnecessary.
September 27th, 2005 at 12:08 amNow, on the topic... okay, so we have two demonstrations. In each (presumably) people who feel strongly enough to spend time and money to go to DC and march together do so. One attracts a six-figure crowd (let's go with the low estimate of 100,000 -- everyone seems to agree there were at least that many). The other attracts about 400 people. To me, that discrepency says a lot about either a) how strongly the supporters of the second cause feel about it, b) how well organized the first one was, or c) the total percentages of the population that support each cause. Now, I've rarely seen any accusations of the anti-war crowd being all that well organized, on the whole... so that (to me) leaves some combination of (a) or (c).
To me, "anti-war" is just that -- anti-war. Either anti-war in principle or anti-war in specific to this war. It's a simple statement that we should not have soldiers over there -- it's not showing sympathy to whomever the enemy is, it's not some kind of subversion born of self-hatred, it's what forms the cornerstone of our system of government... an opinion. We all shout our opinions in hopes of swaying each other, and (hopefully) the whole process results in a synthesis of opinions that is the best solution.
I personally am "anti-war" -- specifically, this war, both in location and how it's being handled. War in general is a tool of nations... and just about the bluntest tool of all. Think of a huge maul or pickaxe. There are times when it's the only tool that works, but you wouldn't want to use a hammer to unscrew a hinge or a pickaxe to trim your tree away from a powerline, would you? In addition, I don't see any of the stated goals for our invasion as reasonably possible with our presence. From my understanding of the situation, Iraq is more or less in a state of collapse -- at this point it's only our presence that is stopping an all-out civil war... and yet our presence gives the growing insurgency more fuel. The current proposed constitution is more or less useless crap (alternatively, very dangerous crap), the infrastructure is more or less completely shot and there's a continuous crime spree (kidnappings, I understand, have become a big business...). I have a friend that came back from his second tour recently (a marine), have a couple more still over there (one's a medic), and a cousin who's headed in as a ranger.
I DON'T fucking want to see any of their names on any fucking list of the deceased.
Terrorism is, to my mind, not a military problem, and thus using a military solution is like using that hammer to cut a two by four (with the exception of terrorism supported by a military force -- see Afghanistan for an acceptable approximation of this situation). It's ultimately a police matter. Terrorists are common (and not-so-common) criminals, and should be treated as such -- not dignified by placing them up on a level equivalent to that of a nation. Why is "terrorist" such a fear-conjuring word when "rapist" conjures simple disgust? To me, there's no material difference between someone who shoots up a hotel of tourists to steal their valuables and someone who does it to sway popular opinion. Both are scum, and both should be found and taken care of as appropriate.
In addition, there is a practical reason that police-work is better suited for anti-terrorism work. The problem with terrorists is not one of sufficient force (the 'bigger hammer' of armies and weapons). The problem is discovery and location -- both of which require the same skills and procedures that are seen in criminal investigations. Who did it, how can I prevent it from happening again, and where can I find the son of a bitch?
September 27th, 2005 at 12:08 amRyan,
Your comments PERFECTLY illustrate like folks like myself have left the now radicalized Democratic party behind.
Notice that I'm not saying I'm a Republican. I'm not. But I'll be damn sure to never vote for a Democrat again as long as I live. You guys left the masses behind long ago, and there are many former Dems who will never look back.
September 27th, 2005 at 12:09 am"Your comments PERFECTLY illustrate like folks like myself have left the now radicalized Democratic party behind."
Ah please, the democrats are largely a DLC tool of corporations. You're an idiot!
"Notice that I’m not saying I’m a Republican. I’m not. But I’ll be damn sure to never vote for a Democrat again as long as I live. "
That sounds like a republican to me.
And you make a generalization, without anything other than your 'abandoned feelings'. You're awfully touchy feely for a republican.
"You guys left the masses behind long ago, and there are many former Dems who will never look back. "
Actually when the democrats started supporting the radical right agenda they did begin to move to the right. You should read history more, the modern democrats are MORE conservative than republicans were in the 50s. The level of your stupidity and ignorance explain why republicans dupe so many of you so easily! You're truly an idiot!
September 27th, 2005 at 12:12 am"#143 - hey, now. I was homeschooled for a couple years, and I turned out fine. Ditto for practically all the other homeschoolers I met."
How would you know - you were homeschooled? That's circular logic you know! Or didn't you learn that at homeschool?
September 27th, 2005 at 12:13 am#388 Ryan Neat,
Your fisking is self-fisking. First, Firefights are not settled by soldiers, not firemen. And before you smart off about them, know that you have to have a masters degree to even be considered for general. And realistically, you need a PhD.
Two, we have better things to do with our time. Like rest up for the week ahead. And the demonstations are in the "rapidly diminishing returns" phase of their existence. Every political insider knows that. Sorry that it took you so long to find that out.
It's only obscure if you learned the sportscenter version of U.S. history. Gettysburg, and possibly the war, was decided by about 400 men. At bayonet point. Your life would be very different if it went the other way.
And battlefields are real. Marches are an amusement...
The Dems, not the Pubs, steal elections. The fact that you don't know / can't believe / can't be bothered to look it up speaks volumes.
September 27th, 2005 at 12:16 amPictures are cropped and photo shopped all the time to fit the writers needs. I'm not surprised that this photo was cropped for the needs of the pro-war groupies.
I always tell people to get atleast two sides to every story, and this is a good reason why you should.
September 27th, 2005 at 12:18 am#393 Ryan Neat
He left out the unspoken understanding that he knows non-homeschooled, as well. Not bringing life experience to a quetion is the Mark of a Youngster. In time, you may learn. But for now, an indulgent pat on the head. Run along and play, Ryan...
September 27th, 2005 at 12:19 amRyan Neat said: "Why should I when you’re doing such a good job of being an idiot yourself? I support your right to be a retarded rightwing moron, but I don’t support your right to be a fascist like the rest of the administration seems to ascribe to. If you REALLY support the values you say, you’d be a liberal and not support a NeoCon fascist!"
Wow, yet another perfect example of the radical mentality of the left.
You attacked someone as a fascist (do you even know me?) and automatically assume I support the administration. Have I called you a "terrorist" yet? Or a "Communist?" I can if you prefer...
You don't have a clue about reality. You don't know what it's like to be sent to a foreign land to confront true evil. You don't know what it's like to be a brother in arms or to "re-up" for another tour. You have no idea what it's like to have someone - in their own native language - say "thank you" as you feed them their first meal in days and open up the road to freedom. And I'm sure you never will...
However, I do.
But, keep talking... As a microcosm of the left and just how out of touch it really is with the mainstream, you just continue to validate my point.
September 27th, 2005 at 12:19 amPSG,
Sorry that posting was nonsensical. Are you making a point, because it's rather obtuse and ranting...
September 27th, 2005 at 12:19 am"Wow, yet another perfect example of the radical mentality of the left.
You attacked someone as a fascist (do you even know me?) and automatically assume I support the administration. Have I called you a “terrorist†yet? Or a “Communist?†I can if you prefer…"
Actually I don't know if you're a fascist or not, but this administration and the current republican party is. If you don't vote democrat, it's a pretty safe bet that you vote fascist. Perhaps you voted green, but doubtful.
You can call me a terrorist, but terrorists are almost always rightwing, so you're more likely to be one than I am. I'm a pascifist, and hardly a communist..
"You don’t have a clue about reality. "
Blah, Blah, Blah...
Pot/Kettle...
"You don’t know what it’s like to be sent to a foreign land to confront true evil. "
True evil? Please.... No one is TRUE evil, and no PEOPLE are true evil. You were clearly brainwashed...
"You don’t know what it’s like to be a brother in arms or to “re-up†for another tour. You have no idea what it’s like to have someone - in their own native language - say “thank you†as you feed them their first meal in days and open up the road to freedom. And I’m sure you never will…"
More hatefilled reichwing propaganda that 'liberals' are all against the military. I personally am a pascifist, but I know I don't represent the mainstream of the democratic party. And yet I SUPPORT what your intentions are, and I hope for your safety. I don't believe you have a right to kill others, and would prefer to see non-lethal force used - but that's my opinion.
"But, keep talking… As a microcosm of the left and just how out of touch it really is with the mainstream, you just continue to validate my point. "
Really, and yet you've not stated once how I am? Maybe because I don't demonize other human beings with my 'war buddies', and feel that by calling human beings pure evil I can justify blowing their heads off? Trust me, your experiences are hardly mainstream either!
September 27th, 2005 at 12:25 amNonsenical?
Good.
Google. Wikipedia. Stay away from dailyKOS, Dem Underground, and other comfortable sites. You now have some puzzlement. Puzzlement leads to curiousity. Curiousity leads to research. And research may lead you to understand our posts in a way you never have.
We know you better than you know yourself. Time to step up, Ryan.
September 27th, 2005 at 12:25 amPSG,
I don't have time to waste on self important idiots. I doubt you know yourself or me, but if you did, you know I don't waste my time on idiots...
September 27th, 2005 at 12:28 amSo lets reiterate.
500,000 anti-war protestors showed up, the largest protests since vietnam.
Only 400 pro war demonstrators.
Bush is nixon level unpopular
The NeoCons are RUNNING SCARED
The peace movement may yet protect the war zombies from themselves!
Go libs go!!! Take back the country from these fascist aholes!
September 27th, 2005 at 12:32 am"The Dems, not the Pubs, steal elections. The fact that you don’t know / can’t believe / can’t be bothered to look it up speaks volumes."
You're a lying propagandist who doesn't know crap. Diebold and your fascist buddies steal elections. Protests DO change things, they changed the civil rights, vietnam and any number of other critical facts. Your delusional denial of history doesn't change it, but it does make you look like a stupid propagandist!
Get a clue!!!
So lets reiterate.
500,000 anti-war protestors showed up, the largest protests since vietnam.
Only 400 pro war demonstrators.
Bush is nixon level unpopular
The NeoCons are RUNNING SCARED
The peace movement may yet protect the war zombies from themselves!
Go libs go!!! Take back the country from these fascist aholes!
September 27th, 2005 at 12:36 amRyan,
Thank you for your "thoughful" post. I truly do appreciate being alligned with... Hmm, let's see. What did you call it? Oh, yes: "hatefilled reichwing propaganda" and that I must have been "clearly brainwashed" to think that someone could be composed of true evil.
Wow.
I won't even touch the other points you mentioned as I need to go to bed to get some sleep. See, I have a job I have to go to in the morning - a job I honestly love. I'll be on a three day shift as a paramedic.
Obviously, that must be part of my brainwasing by the Bushitler Neocons, or perhaps it was that evil Halliburton. Yeah, that must be it. Halliburton is "true evil," is it not? /sarcasm
You state that no human beings is capable of being pure evil. There are millions upon millions of Jews, Poles, Hungarians, Russians, Iraqis, Kurds, Somalies, Cambodians, Chinese, etc who would probably disagree with you if only they were alive to do so.
Good day.
September 27th, 2005 at 12:36 amMy family fought in the civil war - don't lecture me about the 'importance' of a few people. And don't forget that Cindy is one of those poeple who will bring you and your regime down!
So lets reiterate.
500,000 anti-war protestors showed up, the largest protests since vietnam.
Only 400 pro war demonstrators.
Bush is nixon level unpopular
The NeoCons are RUNNING SCARED
The peace movement may yet protect the war zombies from themselves!
Go libs go!!! Take back the country from these fascist aholes!
September 27th, 2005 at 12:38 amAh, yes, the “tolerant†Left… attack peoples CHILDREN when they don’t like the person’s ideas.
Ah, yes, the 'patriotic' Right: attack people's BEREAVED PARENTS when they don't like the person's ideas.
And Darleen: a quick word of advice. Charles Johnson isn't going to have sex with you. He's not that kind of boy.
September 27th, 2005 at 12:51 amWhat the reichwingers dismiss and don't realize, is if there are 500,000 (+ several hundred other around the country) means that there is a SIGNIFICANTLY larger amount of people they represent. Only the most diehard protest, and when this many people protest, it means many more agree with them. That's what the reichwingers would (do) say, and yet they disregard this when it backfires on them and they realize that they're only the VERY wrong end of public opinion! There are LOTS of people who are sick of friends, family and community kids coming home in body bags based on a lie!!!
September 27th, 2005 at 12:57 am#407 ahem said: "Ah, yes, the ‘patriotic’ Right: attack people’s BEREAVED PARENTS when they don’t like the person’s ideas."
You must be referring to Cindy.
What about the ideals of Casey's father? You know, the same man who divorced Cindy and who has publically asked her to stop her demeaning her son.
And while we're at it, what about the ideals of Casey himself? Don't his own ideals have any value? While on his SECOND tour of duty, he volunteered for a RESCUE mission during which he gave his life trying to save others.
If the left is truly tolerant, then you must also accept the viewpoints of the other parties in this public family feud.
September 27th, 2005 at 12:57 amRyan said "...if there are 500,000 (+ several hundred other around the country) means that there is a SIGNIFICANTLY larger amount of people they represent."
I'm going to surprise you on this one, but I actually agree with you regarding that concept.
But, now bear with me, I would also like to express an opposing viewpoint.
Virtually NO ONE protested FOR combat operations during World War II (or just about ANY war for that matter). Yet, history has taught us that the Second World War was the "just" war - the war that had to be fought for survival. Now, being that no one protested FOR the war - which resulted in a staggering 400,000+ US combat deaths and almost 100 MILLION world wide - did that mean that Americans were automatically against the war?
Just something to think about.
September 27th, 2005 at 1:01 amMark Lawrence
You have a problem with me asking for some AUTHORITATIVE sources?
And no, the Stalinist/anti-Semite ANSWER is NOT an authoritative source.
I haven't seen a thing yet, no crowd studies via the photos by a professional group, etc, that PROVES 500,000 or 400, the former anti-American the latter pro-victory attendees.
And as shown by the numerous photos, the attendees are more motivated by Bush Derangement Syndrome than they are by any feelings about "peace."
"Ryan" the "Neat"
Murder is not synonomous with killing. Everytime you say that, everytime you equate America in WWII with Hitler's Germany, you demonstrate your basic moral bankruptcy.
To quote: There are but two "races" in the world, the decent and the indecent.
You have shown yourself as a proud member of the latter.
Go try your "all killing is murder talk" with a few jihadists and see how far they'll agree with you.
Theo Van Gogh found out how willing to "talk" they were.
September 27th, 2005 at 1:02 am“I can tell she’s ugly because that daughter of hers isn’t too appealing.â€
low blow…definitely.
Comment by to the right of you — September 26, 2005 @ 8:13 pm
You'd have to have testicles to be on the receiving end of a low blow. We could knee you in your groin all day long and it wouldn't be any different than kicking you where your brains are, your ass. I'd get used to it either way. And she is definitely a double bagger. A second bag in case the first one rips.
September 27th, 2005 at 1:08 amHey Ryan-
You're dining heavy on troll tonite. Watch out for the indigestion.
Fascinating that all these tough guy 'soldiers' would respect an AWOL coward like Bush and a 5 deferment war-profiteer like Cheney....but turn their backs on a 3 time purple heart vet like Kerry.
Guess they really hate America.
September 27th, 2005 at 1:10 am"What about the ideals of Casey’s father? You know, the same man who divorced Cindy and who has publically asked her to stop her demeaning her son.:
He can speak for himself - he should speak out, it's his right.
"And while we’re at it, what about the ideals of Casey himself? Don’t his own ideals have any value? While on his SECOND tour of duty, he volunteered for a RESCUE mission during which he gave his life trying to save others."
Well, we'll have to take the military's word for that, and as we've seen with other cases, they lie way to often to trust... But even if this is true, then it just shows he was willing to do his job, not that the war is correct.
"If the left is truly tolerant, then you must also accept the viewpoints of the other parties in this public family feud. "
Wow you're daft. You expect tolerance to mean people shouldn't dissent? You're a twisted freak! You definitely belong with the NeoCon fascists if that's how you view free speech, and you clearly don't know what any american soldiers are actually fighting for! And you clearly don't realize that the anti-war protestors are the ONLY ones actually standing up for the soldiers and trying to get them out of harm's way!
September 27th, 2005 at 1:11 amIB,
They're running scared - this is fun!
They're such wussies, one and all! Any dissent and they turn into pansies!
September 27th, 2005 at 1:13 amI happened to catch some of G. Gordon Liddy talking at the Pro War rally. Got me to thinking about something my father used to tell me about how you can tell the character of someone by the company he keeps. So, let's see if I've got this straight. Lidday, an ex con, caught in a plot to illegally gain information that would allow the republicans to steal a presidential election speaks for these people? Hello? Anyone see something basically wrong with this picture? Just what flavor of America do these people stand for? Not mine, certainly. G. Gordon and all the other busheviks are heartless bastards. They no more care about the soldiers they sent into battle than they do all the mindless reichwing cheerleaders I've read on this string. I mean, just think for a minute, they sent them into an illegal battle based entirely on lies, lies the perpetrated -Downing St. memo, ya remember? - with inadequate body armor, little or no vehicle armor, and as targets for improvised bombs made from explosives that their generals didn't see fit to guard, Too busy protecting the oil ministry (not that this war was ever about oil) At the same time, these very same "Patriotic" soldier supporting republicans are cutting veterans benefits. What total and abject bull shit. My suggestions is that when trolls try to derail reality into their little world of make believe, just ignore them. We all know the truth and giving them any time at all is time wasted. Also, thank you Ryan for telling it like it is.
September 27th, 2005 at 1:16 am"“Ryan†the “Neatâ€
Murder is not synonomous with killing. Everytime you say that, everytime you equate America in WWII with Hitler’s Germany, you demonstrate your basic moral bankruptcy."
And yet, you share hitler's moral relativism about murder - that's the irony. You like he felt that killing was 'justified' and could be 'justified' as something other than murder. You're too stupid to know how much you look like him to me. Most germans probably didn't kill anyone themselves, but I'm sure many shared your twisted relative moralism. True irony!
"To quote: There are but two “races†in the world, the decent and the indecent."
And the indecent kill...
"You have shown yourself as a proud member of the latter."
For not being willing to kill? Your pretzel has now cut the oxygen off from your brain.
"Go try your “all killing is murder talk†with a few jihadists and see how far they’ll agree with you."
No, they would agree with you...
"Theo Van Gogh found out how willing to “talk†they were. "
Why, I'm talking to you. I already know unreasonable and insane they are...
September 27th, 2005 at 1:17 amLooks like Might nutjob is here satisfying herself on more sadist fantasies. Join an S&M club and get over yourself already! You clearly have no healthy outlet for all of your freakish fantasies!
September 27th, 2005 at 1:18 amDarleen-
You must have missed my post above and I'd love to hear your response-
"“I assume you consider America’s war on Nazi Germany the moral equivalent of Germany’s war on its neighbors and on Jews?â€
I don’t, but do you agree that America’s war on Iraq is the moral equivalent to Germany’s war on Poland? If not, why not? "
Iraq had no WMD. They had nothing to do with 9/11. They had a 3rd rate defense. I see chilling similarities between Bush's immoral and illegal war and Hitler's move into Poland...don't you?
September 27th, 2005 at 1:20 am"yet, history has taught us that the Second World War was the “just†war - the war that had to be fought for survival. Now, being that no one protested FOR the war - which resulted in a staggering 400,000+ US combat deaths and almost 100 MILLION world wide - did that mean that Americans were automatically against the war?"
I'm glad you brought up history, because this is the largest war protest since vietnam, and history has taught us that it was an UNJUST war. Too bad you're only a student of history when it teaches you the lessons your preconceptions wish to learn! Smart people learn from the lessons they don't want to learn, clearly you were asleep in class that day!
September 27th, 2005 at 1:20 amRyan, Ryan, Ryan,
From one "twisted freak" to another: slow down and open your mind, just for a sec, will ya'??
I said that if the left is truly tolerant, then it should also accept the viewpoints of the others. That doesn't mean the left has to AGREE with those viewpoints. Hell, I don't agree with many of yours. But I do accept them.
Now, I will ask you again: do NOT refer to me as a fascist! In your effort to discredit anyone who doesn't agree with you, you're a little too quick tossing around that word. While you're at it, you should also cease in your use of referring to me as a "neocon." Once again (I feel like I'm repeating myself over and over again here...), just because I'm no longer part of the radicalized Democratic party doesn't mean I'm instantly a neocon/republican or anything of the sort. Stop assuming.
September 27th, 2005 at 1:20 am#420 Ryan Neat (once again)
Uh, um, uh... OK. If you say so.
Once AGAIN, did I EVER say Vietnam was a just war?!?!? Or, was that just your way of flipping the topic?
September 27th, 2005 at 1:24 amNow, I will ask you again: do NOT refer to me as a fascist! In your effort to discredit anyone who doesn’t agree with you, you’re a little too quick tossing around that word. While you’re at it, you should also cease in your use of referring to me as a “neocon.†Once again (I feel like I’m repeating myself over and over again here…), just because I’m no longer part of the radicalized Democratic party doesn’t mean I’m instantly a neocon/republican or anything of the sort. Stop assuming.
Comment by An Ex-Democrat — September 27, 2005 @ 1:20 am
Fuck you, fascist.
September 27th, 2005 at 1:25 am"I said that if the left is truly tolerant, then it should also accept the viewpoints of the others. That doesn’t mean the left has to AGREE with those viewpoints. Hell, I don’t agree with many of yours. But I do accept them."
And how are we not accepting them? You kill in my name, I have no reason to accept your viewpoint as representing mine. You can have your viewpoint, but I will fight vigorously (as will many progressives) for your twisted view of the world to not be dominant.
"Now, I will ask you again: do NOT refer to me as a fascist! In your effort to discredit anyone who doesn’t agree with you, you’re a little too quick tossing around that word. "
Actually I refer to the war in Iraq. The NeoCons are students of Leo Strauss a self avowed NAZI from germany. The doctrine of the PNAC and the 'contract with america' come directly from fascist doctrine. If you support either of those entities or their efforts in Iraq, you are inherently siding with fascists, and therefore I have no reservations about assigning the label. It fits! I suggest you educate yourself on the matter if you are ignorant of these facts.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0312217838/104-2952558-5913543?v=glance
"While you’re at it, you should also cease in your use of referring to me as a “neocon.†Once again (I feel like I’m repeating myself over and over again here…), just because I’m no longer part of the radicalized Democratic party doesn’t mean I’m instantly a neocon/republican or anything of the sort. Stop assuming. "
You defend this war or republicans, you act as a fascist. Sorry, they're the reason and their doctrine is the reason we are in iraq illegally. I don't care what you call yourself, the current administration and the actions in Iraq ARE FASCIST!
September 27th, 2005 at 1:26 am"Uh, um, uh… OK. If you say so.
Once AGAIN, did I EVER say Vietnam was a just war?!?!? Or, was that just your way of flipping the topic? "
Actually it was a correction of your mistaken analogy. You compared Iraq to WWII, when in fact it's virtually identical to Vietnam. That was a highly unpopular war, and the anti-war protests were in fact a sign of exactly how unpopular the war is. You talk about no 'pro-war' protests in WWII, but in reality there were no real anti-war ones either. Why? Because germany posed a REAL threat, as did japan, and they had clearly been the aggressor. This is OUR war of aggression, this time WE are germany.
Don't be a stupid stooge!
September 27th, 2005 at 1:29 am"Ryan, Ryan, Ryan,"
Very 'authoritarian' of you - kiss my ass you loser!
September 27th, 2005 at 1:30 am"Too bad you’re only a student of history when it teaches you the lessons your preconceptions wish to learn! Smart people learn from the lessons they don’t want to learn, clearly you were asleep in class that day!"
Too bad that Yale Cheerleader hadn't spent more time on his History major and less time in the sbowfields. Maybe he'd have learned about post WW2 ME history and understood why his dad didn't take out Hussein in DS1.
And maybe if he and Dick, and the rest of the Republican chickenhawks had answered their call to service when it was their time, maybe they'd have learned that war is the last option, instead of the 1st. Too bad 1900+ Americans and 100,000 innocent Iraqi's had to pay the price of their collective cowardly ignorance.
September 27th, 2005 at 1:30 am#419 Innocent Bystander said: "I don’t, but do you agree that America’s war on Iraq is the moral equivalent to Germany’s war on Poland? If not, why not?"
For the answer to your question, why not ask Poland itself?
They currently have military combat forces deployed and operational in Iraq, and they have been there since day one.
But, to answer your question more directly, comparing Iraq to Poland is not an effective analogy. Germany openly admitted to invading, occupying and oppressing Poland in effort to gain territory while simltaneously plotting its upcoming attack against the Soviets. And, of course, history has taught us about the millions who died at the hands of the SS in the gas chambers.
As flawed as the argument may be regarding the reasoning and intelligence, the Allied intervention in Iraq is simply not equivalent.
September 27th, 2005 at 1:32 amIt's perfectly obvious to us all why this tiny minority of pukes doesn't want to bring the troops home. They are scared shitless that their lives will be in danger. I'd say that they are right. Bring the troops home NOW! Kill two birds with one stone.
Six Percent is the amount of my life I will have spent in Iraq by the end of this deployment. Granted, it is not a large number, but when you think of life as a one-time-only event, suddenly every last moment is precious. Six percent is a lot to have wasted in a perilous and hostile environment. It is a lot of time to have spent betrayed by The Lie. Before I get out of the army, fully twenty percent of my enlistment will have been spent "stop lossed" past the expiration of my contract. More than a year will transpire after I was supposed to have been released from service.
Today marks an especially bitter day for me as I learned from the news (of all places) that my unit's deployment will be extended until the end of January, making it much longer than the twelve month "maximum". The Department of Defense says that less than ten thousand soldiers will be affected, and therefore the scope of the extension is very limited. Also, the length of our extension will be shorter than in the past.
That may be true, but it does not make the news any less damaging to me, personally. I have been abused by the army and the country for too long, and now the mistreatment has been extended. This is MY LIFE that they are destroying. Six percent. I'll never get it back, and there is nothing that they can do to make up for my lost life... but in lieu of an apology and the promise of a speedy return home, I am EXTENDED? I promised Holly that I would be home for my birthday (it would have been the first time we would be together for it), but I was a fool for believing I couldn't possibly be screwed any more than I had been.
The country lied to me, and my life is in deficit by six percent because of it. My rage and hatred are reaching a point where I sometimes feel like expressing both violently. I would not want to be on the battlefield with someone like me; but everywhere I look, I see people going through the same emotions. We are the army of The Betrayed; soldiers lied to and abused. Soldiers who will spend the rest of our lives wondering what we did to deserve our country's betrayal. That so few people in America seem to care about us adds insult to injury. Wake up, America; right this horrible wrong before more of your youth are lied to on their way to The Slaughterhouse.
September 27th, 2005 at 1:32 amAh, Darleen. I see you got your buddy "Iron Fist" to weigh in (quoting himself). "Fist" is an interesting character. He's a convicted felon who brags about his guns (anyone see a problem with that?) and constantly boasts on LGF about how tough he is and what he'd like to do to "Leftists" with his knives, blah blah. He also frequently posts his fantasies about dropping nuclear weapons all over the Mid East. He's a very very sick, disgusting person and it makes perfect sense he's your little Lizard Buddy.
September 27th, 2005 at 1:33 amAs I was diligently googling documentation on some side issue brought up by the right wingers posting on this site, I thought "Hey, wait they can do this too."
But they don't cause they are not interested in anything that challenges their beliefs. So why waste my time trying to change their minds. I didn't come to this site to hear the same tired old justifactions from right wingers....I can turn on Fox News for that.
I'm new to this blog thing and have heard the troll term but I FINALLY get it!!
Bravo, trolls! Well done. You have definately sidetracked this conversation. Now go outside and play, like good little children while us adults have some grown-up time. Skat!
Anyway.........
So what's next?
Obviously, this protest has the nutjobs freaked out, so let's make the next one bigger. On that note, my 2 cents:
1. What did you guys think about ANSWER? I think the speakers they had were bad. They went off on subjects that I think distracted from the Iraq war. I think protests should be about one thing at a time. Otherwise, the main message gets watered down.
2. How about next time instead of a "protest", we have a "rally" for an exit strategy from Iraq. I do believe Congressman John Conyers has drafted an exit strategy. Why don't we help him pressure Congress by having an "Exit Strategy Rally" right outside where they can hear and see the American voters.
3. This needs to move beyond being against the war. The majority is now against the war. We need to stop bickering with the nutjobs about whether we are right. Cause the majority is on our side and we are wasting time. Focus, people. I know we are used to being marginalized but if we'd stop licking our wounds we'd realize that end of the war is on the horizon if we'd only reach for it.
Trust me, I know how tempting it is to spend your effort on convincing the die hard nutjobs the error of their ways, but it is a waste of time. Let's really drive them crazy by ignoring them and collaborating and discussing ways with each other to bring back the America we knew.
I'd love to hear what you guys think about the idea of an "Exit Strategy Rally."
September 27th, 2005 at 1:34 amMetal Oven Mitt is a total ass packer. He's an ex-con isn't he?
September 27th, 2005 at 1:37 amRyan,
I tried to talk to you civilly. The best you retort you can come back with is, and I quote, "kiss my ass you loser!" Wow, I see you must have been the captain of your college debating team...
I have refrained from name calling with you. And I will continue to do so even at this point save for this one exception: arguing with an idiot is useless, and you are an idiot.
Take care, Ryan. Take care.
And good luck with your job search. What exactly do Communist leaning Philosophy instructors get paid these days??
September 27th, 2005 at 1:37 amMark,
Thanks for the heads up, I didn't know what kind of retarded fringe crap they were printing, but I knew it was from a looney! It was entirely incoherent! It reminded me of gangbanger ghetto talk when people say words they don't even know the meaning of the try to look smart. I'm glad to know my analysis of it was correct!
Guys with violent fantasies usually had violent childhoods and feel secure and frightful. It's kind of ironic how 'dangerous' they live mentally, you'd think they'd want peace, but it appears that it wires them to seek out every more violent fantasies. Pretty sick people! They have my sympathy, just not my tolerance when they try to push it into my life!
September 27th, 2005 at 1:40 amKCN,
I'm sorry the republicans betrayed you, they betrayed ALL of us.
The patriots who protested saturday do so in the honor of you and troops like you! You are supposed to serve US, not some propped up dictator with Diebold rigged elections! I'm sorry many of us didn't know the election rigging was happening until what appears now to be almost too late to rectify! We are fighting for you, and our democracy! Thank you for fighting for us and to stay alive! My hopes and prayers are with you and all who serve with you - and we hope we can bring you all home safe soon!!!
September 27th, 2005 at 1:42 amToo bad that Yale Cheerleader hadn’t spent more time on his History major and less time in the sbowfields.
My bad, that should be "snowfields"....as in the endless lines of coke he was snorting before he found politics (I mean Jeesus).
September 27th, 2005 at 1:42 amI'm glad these fascist goopers put themselves out there with pictures and blogs and bragging all that shit, lots of personal info leaks thru. It will make it so much easier for the well trained killers they don't give a rat's ass about to track them down and "discuss" the war with them. Impart some "first hand" knowledge to them, so to speak. I'd pay to see that with Metal Oven Mitt. I bet he's already making plans for going into hiding. Something he does well.
September 27th, 2005 at 1:43 amComment by An Ex-Democrat — September 27, 2005 @ 1:37 am
You realize that he became an ex-Democrat after the war. The Civil War! LMAO!
September 27th, 2005 at 1:46 am"I tried to talk to you civilly. The best you retort you can come back with is, and I quote, “kiss my ass you loser!†Wow, I see you must have been the captain of your college debating team…"
That's bullshit! And yes I did kick your ass, I hope you made a better soldier than a debater, because frankly you're a wimp and a loser!
"I have refrained from name calling with you. And I will continue to do so even at this point save for this one exception: arguing with an idiot is useless, and you are an idiot."
And yet, you haven't posted a single rational thing, so I think IDIOT best suits you.
The fact is this is the largest protest since vietnam, and the protests DID help end the war in vietnam. The reality is that the democratic party didn't leave you, the military clearly took what few wits you had and brainwashed them down the toilet! Get a backbone, and open your eyes you twit!
"Take care, Ryan. Take care."
I am taking care, I'm fighting for freedom, democracy, civil liberties and against unjust wars! Clearly you're just disgruntled and stupid!
"And good luck with your job search. What exactly do Communist leaning Philosophy instructors get paid these days?? "
Lots, I've had a great live, and have much personal financial success - how's your 'loyalty' to reichwingers been for you? As for 'communist', since when is the desire for peace communistic? I suppose those vietcong that kicked our asses were pascifist communists?
The person who defends REAL LIVE fascists who've hijacked the country calls me a communist - that's a hoot! Communism is as stupid as fascism is, and the fact that you'd fall for either of them shows how witless you are! Anything balanced and reasonable is always called 'communist' by reichwingers - you truly are a stupid piece of work!
September 27th, 2005 at 1:47 amI tried to talk to you civilly. The best you retort you can come back with is, and I quote, “kiss my ass you loser!†Wow, I see you must have been the captain of your college debating team…
The time for talk is over, daisy. It's time to get busy.
September 27th, 2005 at 1:48 am#434 KillCon Now!
You do realize that threatening a US citizen with physical harm is a crime in virtually ever jurisdiction, don't you?
Speaking of personal info, should we refer to yo