Bill O’Reilly falsely smears
By on Oct 4th, 2005 at 2:18 pm
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This is the appropriate link for the piece.
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2005/10/04.html#a5221
I will let you off with another warning.
October 4th, 2005 at 2:20 pmThe man is just sick.
October 4th, 2005 at 2:20 pmJeebus! Is O’Rielly an idiot or what!
October 4th, 2005 at 2:24 pmGood thing he doesn’t know his… WWII history. That moron doesn’t know his arse from a hole in the ground. There are plenty of examples of possible and verified atrocities committed by U.S. troops in any conflict, WWII included, but Malmedy certainly wasn’t one of them.
Link fixed. Thanks link police!
October 4th, 2005 at 2:24 pmWhat the hey!
Y’all may as well learn what O’Reilly thinks he knows.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canicatti_slaughter
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biscari_massacre
They didn’t call Patton Old Blood and Guts fer nuthin’.
October 4th, 2005 at 2:28 pmWe are only here to help.
October 4th, 2005 at 2:29 pmDon’t you know O’Lielly is the last authority on everything? DOn’t believe me? Just ask him!
October 4th, 2005 at 2:34 pmI think BO has been hooking up with Limbaugh’s hillbilly herion dealer. He’s all over the place.
October 4th, 2005 at 2:35 pmBO! Good one!
October 4th, 2005 at 2:38 pmFirst, let me just say that I think that O’Reilly is completely crazy, border line certifiable.
And second, I’d like to say that I don’t know in what context he was speaking.
However, let’s not just simply dismiss the fact that our troops create atrocities left and right “in the name of Right,” and have been doing so all throughout history.
Fire bombing of Germany, Japan, bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, My Lai, Falluja…
All war is one atrocity after another. There is no “right” in war, there is only wrong.
“States are not moral agents.” -Chomsky
October 4th, 2005 at 2:40 pmElvis,
I have been interested in military history as a hobby for many years.
If I was in combat, I would want to stay alive. We all would. War is not surgery. It’s mayhem. American units have engaged in acts during war time that do not always comport with the image of the “guys in the white hats” that some would like to always portray. But let’s be clear about what Chomsky is saying. The leadership and policy are often immoral. The grunt on the ground, for the most part, is just a guy or gal like you and me who just wants to stay alive.
October 4th, 2005 at 2:48 pmAll war is one atrocity after another. There is no “right†in war, there is only wrong.
Elvis,
War sucks, but are you sayiung that all resistance is futile?
Read this: The Theory, Practice, and Influence of Thoreau’s Civil Disobedience
http://www.wellesley.edu/Peace/Rosenwald/thoreau.html
October 4th, 2005 at 2:55 pmAll war is bad. The people who start wars never have to go in harms way. The people who die are the ones who stop war, or are victoms of the war starters. o’wrongly is just a ’safe-at-home’ mouthpiece of war starters. He had ‘bodyguards’ for a reason!
October 4th, 2005 at 2:58 pmIt’s par for the O’Reilly course: play fast and loose with facts to try and manufacture a zinger where none exists. I’m sure we’ll soon see the inevitable aftermath where, when called out on it, he’ll flat-out lie or criticize the “liberal website” for nitpicking and try to claim he was right, after all. O’reilly’s always been a shameless, self-righteous, self-aggrandizing bully and he cements the perception every time he opens his mouth.
October 4th, 2005 at 2:59 pmBut Wisedup,
What about legitimate resistance to tyranny?
From that essay:
“Later, then, after the passage of the Fugitive Slave Law in 1850, and still more after John Brown’s raid, Thoreau defends violent actions on the same grounds as those on which he defends nonviolent action in the essay – because, by that time, what belonged to the hour had changed, and the actions he found himself called to defend were violent. Consider this passage from “A Plea for Captain John Brown”:
It was [Brown's] peculiar doctrine that a man has a perfect right to interfere by force with the slaveholder, in order to rescue the slave. I agree with him. . . . I do not wish to kill nor to be killed, but I can foresee circumstances in which both these things would be by me unavoidable.25
Both the earlier essays and the later ones explain and defend the direct action that Thoreau found appropriate to the moment. And that pragmatic focus on a particular action makes Thoreau’s essay legitimately available to sharply opposed readers; both King and Gandhi, on the one hand, and the anonymous fighter in the Danish Resistance on the other, are reading Thoreau rightly.26″
October 4th, 2005 at 3:07 pmI have not finished the article in the link, but I will…
In regards to your question, am “I saying all resistance is futile?” No. What I am saying is that ARMED conflict is wrong. People are intelligent enough to settle their differences with words or non-violent actions. War kills innocent people on both sides, period: those who cause the war, are seldom, if ever, the ones who end up dieing.
I was a Marine for four years. I’ve served in “harms way.” My need to stay alive was of the utmost importance to me.
However, I was foolish enough to join. I volunteered, at an age and with a background that did not provide me with enough insight or history to understand the true principles and reasons for war. We, as humans, should be raising our young to understand these things, not raising them to be another sheep in the herd.
In regards to grunts on the ground: I think you are generalizing far too much. I was a grunt. I can tell you that some are fanatical; most are what you and I would consider unethical. They are not all sitting around wishing they didn’t have to kill. Some “believe in the cause” and enjoy what they are doing.
Calling in air strikes on homes “suspected” of housing insurgents; shooting a person running down the street away from you; shooting a car that’s approaching a bit too fast for your liking, are all situations where the grunt on the ground makes a call to kill or not to kill. The grunt on the ground should not be put in that position in the first place.
All modern wars have ended in negotiations. This is evidence, therefore, that the war was not needed in the first place.
By the way, I didn’t put Chomsky’s quote on that post as a direct link to the topic; I use it as a general tag line to most of my posts, just to get people thinking.
October 4th, 2005 at 3:16 pmO’reilly called for the assasination of Bassad lastngith as well. Busy night for the moralist O’reilly!
October 4th, 2005 at 3:18 pmO’Lielly came up wity this BS because he is still trying to push the lie that this is the work of a few “bad apples” and not something that was planned and justified at the very top levels of our government. He needed proof of other “bad apple” actions and pulled one out of his ass. I doubt anyone is really surprised.
For O’Reilly it seems to be more important that he “win” the verbal sparring match in the moment than actually be right. He does this all the time. He shapes reality to fit his arguement. Look at his reaction to Jeremy Glick — the one person who really handed O’Reilly his ass in a debate — first he threatened him, then he lied about his arguement (and continues to do so — he lied about what Glick said just a few weeks ago with Phil Donahue). O’Rielly can’t handle losing.
October 4th, 2005 at 3:25 pm#16 Elvis
October 4th, 2005 at 3:29 pm“All modern wars have ended in negotiations. This is evidence, therefore, that the war was not needed in the first place.”
A thought worth remembering.
Link Police,
A violent action between two or three people in regards to slavery is different then World War II, or the war in Iraq. Is that to say that I think that those actions would be justified (violence against slavery)? No. There would be other ways to get through to the slave holder. Stop buying his goods, would be one possibility.
If you are using World War II as an example of a war against tyranny, then I would have to ask you to read our countries history of supporting Nazi Germany prior to getting involved. In fact, read our own Presidents link to such support. Read about how IBM helped make the Nazi concentration camps more efficient in tracking innocent Jews and the reports they developed to tell the Germans which Jews to kill and when, based on their productivity.
Even our own Civil War was not about slavery, as our government and its school system would like you to believe.
October 4th, 2005 at 3:30 pmIt’s not the content, it’s the delivery. You guys know that!
October 4th, 2005 at 3:30 pmHowever, I was foolish enough to join. I volunteered, at an age and with a background that did not provide me with enough insight or history to understand the true principles and reasons for war. We, as humans, should be raising our young to understand these things, not raising them to be another sheep in the herd.
You should consider another kind of service, Sir. If ever you decide to get into politics. You would get my vote.
October 4th, 2005 at 3:31 pmBill Kristol said once that the idea of the “liberal media” is a hoax and powerless.
October 4th, 2005 at 3:34 pmI suggest the same for this infotainment garbage.
Oreilly is “A Current Affair” level talking head.
Elvis,
You remind me of two other great Marines.
Smedley Butler
http://www.fas.org/man/smedley.htm
and the Real Private Joker from Full Metal Jacket…
“The South is a big Indian reservation populated by ex-Confederates who are bred like cattle to die in Yankee wars. In Alabama there is no circus to run off to, so we join the Marines.â€
Gustav Hasford
http://www.gustavhasford.com/litsnuffie.htm
October 4th, 2005 at 3:36 pmO’Reilly got his start on “A Current Affairâ€. He was before Maury Povich.
October 4th, 2005 at 3:37 pmSome “believe in the cause†and enjoy what they are doing.
Sadly, I know this, Elvis, but it’s the culture, ours and the military culture as well. My kid was Ranger 1/75 and later 2/75. “Some” is still better than all.
October 4th, 2005 at 3:41 pmThe grunt on the ground should not be put in that position in the first place.
Exactly. Unless absolutely necessary.
October 4th, 2005 at 3:42 pmWas Bill O’Reaily ever in the service?
October 4th, 2005 at 3:48 pmthen I would have to ask you to read our countries history of supporting Nazi Germany prior to getting involved. In fact, read our own Presidents link to such support. Read about how IBM helped make the Nazi concentration camps more efficient in tracking innocent Jews and the reports they developed to tell the Germans which Jews to kill and when, based on their productivity.
Even our own Civil War was not about slavery, as our government and its school system would like you to believe.
I know all this, and it’s safe to say that they even had “mission creep” back then with regards to the cause and justification for the war. It was about state’s rights, keeping the union whole, and slavery, and the South fired the first shot.
Boyd and Moral Conflict
http://www.d-n-i.net/second_level/boyd_military.htm
http://www.belisarius.com/modern_business_strategy/boyd/patterns/moral.htm
I still believe that we are a ways off from achieving peace without at least preparing to DEFEND ourselves. Preparing for defense and preparing for war are similar but not entirely the same.
October 4th, 2005 at 3:49 pmWas Bill O’Reaily ever in the service?
Never, although he has intimated he was.
October 4th, 2005 at 3:49 pmO’Lielly
http://www.nndb.com/people/434/000022368/
“I’ll tell you what. I’ve been in combat. I’ve seen it, I’ve been close to it… and if my unit is danger, and I’ve got a captured guy, and the guy knows where the enemy is, and I’m looking him in the eye, the guy better tell me. That’s all I’m gonna tell you. The guy better tell me. If it’s life or death, he’s going first.” That’s O’Reilly talking, and he sounds like a tough veteran, but if not an outright lie it is at least a bluff. O’Reilly was never in the military.
October 4th, 2005 at 3:51 pmHat Tip to NTodd at
http://dohiyimir.typepad.com/
For the links to Gen. Boyd.
We have disrupted the White House’s OODA loop irreparably.
http://www.mindsim.com/MindSim/Corporate/OODA.html
October 4th, 2005 at 3:55 pmAnybody send this video to MSM for airing?
October 4th, 2005 at 4:07 pmBO and his pals can get away with lying because they know they can…. No one in the administration or FCC is going to punish these clowns….they are nothing more than paid front liars for the administration.
Fox has learned that most listeners want to have a nasty SOB shouting down anyone and anything liberal…it doesn’t matter if the shout down is totally untrue, the ratings aren’t about truth! Hmmmm, sounds like a good sound bite from a movie! This clown needs to dominate everyone on his program and when they have the brains and ability to challenge him, he shuts off their microphone. He and GW are living in a perfect world…why worry about the truth?
October 4th, 2005 at 4:14 pmWhat’s a good reference source for a summary of some of O’L'Lielly’s many falsehoods?
October 4th, 2005 at 4:41 pmHere, J Dubya
Sweet Jesus I Hate Bill O’Reilly. Yes, there really is such a site.
http://www.sweetjesusihatebilloreilly.com/
and Media Matters
http://mediamatters.org/
and FAIR
http://www.fair.org/index.php
and
NewsHounds
http://www.newshounds.us/
October 4th, 2005 at 4:56 pmfirst off, i know that bill oreilly is right leaning, which bugs me when i flip him on…i gotta flip it off – he does have an entertaining show. i do think he does SPIN things…in the ‘no’ spin zone, and yes, he does get caught in lies sometimes.
i dont think that bill oreilly would purposely say something so unfactual – in regards to issues as that.
i think he was trying to make the point that – in the massacre trial, the chain of command (which is what the subtopic was at the moment in their conversation) did have something to do with the massacre (an SS general was convicted)
i took a look at the video, and he does state ‘who did it’ — the question is, was this a rhetorical question, or a statement as fact.
i will give him the benefit of the doubt in this instance…but i think he should clear it up somehow, and if he was mistaken in believing the US troops did that massacre – he should just say so.
transcript:
O’REILLY: General, with al respect, there were atrocities in Vietnam.
CLARK: Yes. And they were trials and they were punished.
O’REILLY: And World War II and World War I and the Civil War and the Revolutionary War.
CLARK: They were not by the chain of command.
O’REILLY: Yes, they were.
CLARK: No, they weren’t. No they weren’t.
O’REILLY: Lieutenant Callie and Medina in Vietnam?
CLARK: They were not condoned by the chain of command. Those guys were court martialed.
O’REILLY: With al due respect…
CLARK: … all the way up the chain of command.
O’REILLY: General, you need to look at the Malmady (ph) massacre in World War II and the 82nd Airborne. WHO DID IT (I HAD TO ADD THAT, CAUSE FOXNEWS.COM TOOK OFF THAT STATEMENT ON THEIR TRANSCRIPT)
October 4th, 2005 at 7:42 pmi will give him the benefit of the doubt in this instance…but i think he should clear it up somehow, and if he was mistaken in believing the US troops did that massacre – he should just say so.
We don’t even give you the benefit of the doubt, so who cares?
October 4th, 2005 at 8:19 pm#29, no Bill O’Righty was never in the service, but as #31 pointed out, to hear him talk, he insinuates he was. During the the Vietnam War, he made sure he enrolled and stayed in college to avoid service. During the times his school buddies and better men were fighting and dying in the Mekong Delta or on the DMZ he managed to get three (3) deferments and avoided the war. Like other armchair soldier boys (Cheney, Wolfowitz, Limbaugh, ETC.) Bill made sure it was OTHER men who spilled their blood in combat, while he found a place to ride out the war from 1967-1973.
Of course, he now likes to mention how he was on the ground in some dangerous places (but he has never, ever been under any real enemy fire).
Don’t you just love how these chickenshit asses, who wouldn’t serve when they were called upon, now wrap themselves in the flag and scream for the rest of us to send ourselves or our children off to war?
Bill O’Rielly is a puke and a coward.
October 4th, 2005 at 10:43 pmLeatherneck(#40) Right On!
October 5th, 2005 at 3:11 amDon’t ya just love those chickenhawks?
http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=7878
article from bill oreilly, mentioning the massacre.
October 5th, 2005 at 5:32 pm