BREAKING: Karl Rove to Give Additional Testimony
Filed Under: National Security, Ethics
By on Oct 6th, 2005 at 3:23 pm
BREAKING: Karl Rove to Give Additional Testimony
Rove is returning to the grand jury to provide more testimony. Breaking AP report:
Federal prosecutors have accepted an offer from presidential adviser Karl Rove to give 11th-hour testimony in the case of a CIA officer’s leaked identity but have warned they cannot guarantee he won’t be indicted, according to people directly familiar with the investigation.
In the past, Rove’s attorney insisted that Karl had already shared all relevant information. Flashback to 7/16/05:
“‘[Rove] has shared with the special prosecutor everything he knows that is relevant to the investigation,’ Luskin said, ‘and the prosecutor was aware of all of these matters when he assured Karl that he is not a target of the investigation.’ [Los Angeles Times]
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This is beginning to be as boring as Katrina 24/7. I remember the fervent hopes of many conservatives that Bill’s and Hillary’s grand jury appearances would lead to indictments. They, too, testified without any guarantees against possible prosecution. They, too, got away, scot-free, without suffering any criminal penalties. Hillary may even be our next president. So it probably is a waste of energy to get real excited about this news tidbit.
October 6th, 2005 at 3:32 pmKarl’s going to need a diaper change.
October 6th, 2005 at 3:38 pmYou wish.
October 6th, 2005 at 3:38 pmMaybe this time there’s evidence of wrongdoing…
October 6th, 2005 at 3:38 pmSorry, my “You wish ” was directed at #1, not #2 (no pun intended!).
October 6th, 2005 at 3:39 pmOr maybe to save his own skin he might roll on a higher up?
October 6th, 2005 at 3:39 pmI sure hope a deal isn’t cut that lets him walk. I’m sure he’s ready to deal.
October 6th, 2005 at 3:41 pmThe obvious difference BSR, is that Bill and Hillary’s crimes were either fabricated or too petty to warrant a slap on the wrist nevermind a grand jury indictment. In this case, there is soooooo much dirt and crime.
I suppose it is boring from we’re your sitting, but from where I sit, I need popcorn and quaalude to contain my enthusiasm. Waaaahoooooo!!!!
October 6th, 2005 at 3:41 pmTHINGS CHANGE
October 6th, 2005 at 3:41 pmI need popcorn and quaalude to contain my enthusiasm. Waaaahoooooo!!!!
Comment by Jay — October 6, 2005 @ 3:41 pm
Jay,
October 6th, 2005 at 3:45 pmI know it, the Delay indictment was the best day I’ve had since this pig-sh*t was appointed. I can’t wait for junior’s indictment. There’ll be dancing in the streets!
“…[Investigators] have warned they cannot guarantee he won’t be indicted, according to people directly familiar with the investigation…” (from http://news.yahoo.com/ s/ ap/ 20051006/ ap_on_go_pr_wh/ cia_leak_rove )
- Abramhoff
- Safavian
- DeLay
…
- And now Rove
The GOP is corrupt to its very very core. Defending them and their actions is left to the stupid self important concrete thinkers that make up a vocal minor minority in this country.
October 6th, 2005 at 3:47 pmRove is so indicted. I can’t wait!
October 6th, 2005 at 3:47 pmJay - Did Hillary leave the billing records in the Conservatory w/ Col. Mustard?? in the Hall w/ the candlestick?? Don’t use Scotch to wash down that popcorn!
October 6th, 2005 at 3:47 pmThe trolls have no argument left to fight with. Buh BYE!!! Fools.
October 6th, 2005 at 3:48 pmTime for Karl to come clean? Perhaps he needs to “correct the record” on earlier statements that are now known to be perjured. C’mon Karl, spill the beans….
October 6th, 2005 at 3:50 pmI’m blue in every sense of the word. But I will never understand elation over Grand Jury indictments for leaders in either party. To me, it’s really sad and upsetting. It means that people in the leadership of our government - elected by people who trust them to have our interests - are as corrupt as they come. While it’s good that they are getting their come-uppance, but it’s terrible for our country. There are so many things that need our focus, and these greedy b*****rds are disrespecting our time and tax $$ on playing politics so that they can further their own agendas. When I drink my beer when the indictments are handed down, I will be drowning my sorrows, not celebrating a victory (it’s a loss for all of us).
October 6th, 2005 at 3:53 pmHow long does everybody think President Hastert will serve before he’s indicted, too?
October 6th, 2005 at 3:55 pmThe source says Rove offered to testify. This can only mean that he has lied in his prior grand jury appearances and is now hoping that if he sets the record straight Fitzgerald won’t indict him. In other words, Rove knows Fitzgerald knows he’s lied, and now he’s just hoping to avoid being indicted if he sets the record straight now. I guess now we’ll see what kind of prosecutor Fitzgerald really is.
October 6th, 2005 at 3:55 pmClinton! Clinton! It’s all about Clinton!
October 6th, 2005 at 3:55 pm#16 - indeed, it is terrible for the country. Focusing on other things will not solve the basic problem: corruption, greed, or treason.
So how to deal with it? With the world watching it is very very important that we show publically and for the record that we can and will make the required corrections. Period.
Otherwise we have no moral or ethical stance on the world stage. We’ve already become the laughing stock of the world.
October 6th, 2005 at 3:56 pmaphrodite,
I prefer to look forward. Bill and Hillary do not apply to our current state of affairs (unless you want to count the Clinton administrations sober warnings about Bin Laden and Al Qaeda being a top priority for the Bushies…but I digress). You wingnuts really ought to focus on what’s in front of you and stop being distracted by what’s behind.
October 6th, 2005 at 3:56 pmSo sad and pathetic (but understandable) that the wingnuts feel the need to distract from the obvious criminality of their Republican heroes by still trying to pin bullshit crimes on the Clenis and Mrs. Clenis. This time it’s for real, assholes.
October 6th, 2005 at 3:57 pmRolaids all around?….let them squirm, ALL of them. The clock tics away while we relax and watch..ahhhhhh. If they find away to get out of this one, we won’t be supprised,but we are NOT GOING AWAY…impeachment is next.
October 6th, 2005 at 3:59 pm“I’m blue in every sense of the word. But I will never understand elation over Grand Jury indictments for leaders in either party. To me, it’s really sad and upsetting. It means that people in the leadership of our government - elected by people who trust them to have our interests - are as corrupt as they come.”
No–their actions and criminality are what shows that these bastards are as corrupt as they come. The indictments are the positive result of a legal system that might not actually be 100% bought and paid for by ChimpCo.
When granny-murderers and child molesters are locked up, we don’t get all sad because their arrest and conviction show that there are bad people out there. Their actions are proof enough of that, and their prosecution is a good thing.
October 6th, 2005 at 4:01 pmmakr1964 in #16,
Yes, it’s very sad that our country has been dragged down such a dark path. The indictments of the GoP players is justice at work, that is something to celebrate.
“elected by people who trust them to have our interests”-
Was that you? Did you trust them? I never did and for good reason. Now buck up little fella, the wheels are a turnin in the right (meaning correct) direction.
October 6th, 2005 at 4:02 pm#16 - oh, puhleese. As if political corruption started with these guys. Do a little research, and come up with one presidential administration that did not have scandals involving government officials and others close to the seat of power. Who do you think gets elected to office in this country? Got news for you - they’re human beings, just as greedy and power hungry and arrogant as the worst of us, and often just as idealistic and altruistic as the best of us.
October 6th, 2005 at 4:03 pm#22 - I did not mean to imply that we should ignore what is happening and move on. We need to cleanse the corruption out of Washington. And we thought Katrina would take a long time to clean up! My point really is that jubilation over the indictments doesn’t make sense to me. We need to get these people out of town, and take our government back. In a few cases, it means getting some pretty effective Dems out, too (more the Reps than the Dems, but there are a few of us). We do not deserve this, and we need to be aggressive in our actions.
October 6th, 2005 at 4:03 pmI’m melting, I’m melting!
October 6th, 2005 at 4:05 pm-Rove
#25 - No I did not trust them. I did not vote for them. Many of our fellow citizens DID (and in many cases, still DO) trust them. Those of us on the common-sense side of things need to out-vote the other team ALL the time (and I don’t mean on Diebold voting machines).
October 6th, 2005 at 4:08 pmWhat are the consequences if Rove just sits there making up sh*t? I mean really…
October 6th, 2005 at 4:08 pmI remember the fervent hopes of many conservatives that Bill’s and Hillary’s grand jury appearances would lead to indictments. They, too, testified without any guarantees against possible prosecution. They, too, got away, scot-free, without suffering any criminal penalties.
Yeah, that’s the way it goes when you don’t have any crimes committed…. Fancy that.
But Rove might have a teeny, little
October 6th, 2005 at 4:09 pm…. problem there.
Cheers,
October 6th, 2005 at 4:09 pmSo makr1964, let me get this straight. We’ve been watching this most horrible of regimes destroy this country for 5 years. They’ve lied us to war, pissed on our CIA, stolen our tax dollars, manipulated the small-minded and the uninformed, spread fear and hate and lies…..and finally, thank goodness, there may be some justice…a glimmer of hope for our crumbling democracy….and you’re sad?
I think you’re a bit late in joining this party my friend. Justice and some semblance of opposition to these criminals is certainly grounds for optimism.
October 6th, 2005 at 4:10 pmTime for Karl to come clean? Perhaps he needs to “correct the record†on earlier statements that are now known to be perjured. C’mon Karl, spill the beans….
Methinks you nailed it on the head. Rove’s accepting the invite hoping to “clarify” things, and try and weasel out of a perjury charge…. Problem is, without some kind of a deal, if he now contradicts what he said before, he’s just putting nails in his own coffin legally, and he’ll have to hope for the indulgence of the prosecution to give him a pass for his earlier testimony. But they’re not likely to do that unless he “rolls” on someone else; unless he gives up someone as well….
Cheers,
October 6th, 2005 at 4:15 pmdid something jog Rove’s memory all the sudden? or maybe he’s going to beg for mercy? the outcome will be interesting…
btw, Bill and Hillary were cleared because there was no substances to those charges…
October 6th, 2005 at 4:15 pm[…] Via Atrios and Think Progress comes this AP report: Federal prosecutors have accepted an offer from presidential adviser Karl Rove to give 11th-hour testimony in the case of a CIA officer’s leaked identity but have warned they cannot guarantee he won’t be indicted, according to people directly familiar with the investigation. […]
October 6th, 2005 at 4:18 pmPoor Georgie-Porgie…without Rove around to tell him when to wipe his nose, Georgie will have to go back to sucking his thumb and asking his momma what he should do next. Her reply: “let them eat cake in that-thar Nawlins Convention Center”…
October 6th, 2005 at 4:23 pmJay - optimism is different from some of the drooling giddiness that seems to come out from several people. We need to be thinking 5 steps ahead, not wringing our hands in glee over a couple of good things to finally happen. Like Rove or not, his talent is in doing just that. And the Republicans in general are much better at it than us. We on the left must begin to recognize that we’ve been on our back foot for 13 long years now. Getting all excited about this doesn’t necessarily mean the fall of the right. The fall of the right won’t happen until the left raises itself up.
October 6th, 2005 at 4:25 pmI have an advance copy of Rove’s testimony:
ROVE: The Clenisâ„¢ told me that Wilson’s wife worked at the CIA. And then it stained my blue suit.
October 6th, 2005 at 4:30 pmTread carefully, makr1964. You too, could be confused with a conservative.
October 6th, 2005 at 4:32 pmWe’re all happy that Karl Rove may get what is coming for him. It’s good to see justice work in our favor for a change, but that still won’t help us as much as we would like to believe. Rover is only a small part of the GOP spin machine. There are others like him, though none are as devious(Hannity, Coulter, O’Reily, etc.). All though are very good at lying. If Liberals and Moderates want to stand a chance against the fanatical Right spin machine, they need to develop a powerful counter-spin machine. It will be tough, but it can be done.
October 6th, 2005 at 4:32 pmTread carefully, makr1964. You too, could be mistaken for a humorless conservative.
October 6th, 2005 at 4:32 pmMonty Hall Fitzgerald: “So Karl, are you ready:
Rovie: Yes i sure am
Monty Hall Fitzgerald: Then let’s play LET’S MAKE A DEAL!!
Behind door number one is an indictment with your name on it.
Behind door number two is an indictment with the President’s name on it
Behind door number three may be an indictment with your name on it.
To open door number two you must choose to take the immunity key!
So which will it be Karl, Immunity and testify against the Pres, or tackle door number one or three?
Rovie: mmmmm.. well let’s see risk indictment or get indicted versus immunity. But if Bushco isn’t impeached and i get indicted and convicted i could get pardoned, whereas if i take immunity then i never get in trouble and Bushco may or may not be impeached. So Monty, i will have to take the immunity key and open door number two and retestify to the grand jury…
October 6th, 2005 at 4:33 pmmeh, double post
October 6th, 2005 at 4:33 pmWell, it seems that Rove’s lawyer has stated (today) that Rove does not have a letter saying he is a target, earlier reports said that he refused to comment (which was a change from before, when he would comment and say Rove didn’t have a letter).
So lets dial the hopes back, just a little.
October 6th, 2005 at 4:34 pm“Or maybe to save his own skin he might roll on a higher up? Comment by Debra — October 6, 2005 @ 3:39 pm”
There is only one guy higher up to roll on; Rove would never do that. But he will lie his ass off and talk so much crap that it will be hard to know what the real truth is. Rove’s kind of ilk will only act appeasing or appear to acquiece, but will in the end do only that which they can gain great advantage from compared to the risk. After all Robert and Harriet may be deciding this case in the end.
October 6th, 2005 at 4:34 pmThis is absolutely a time for rejoicing. I have been doing everything in my power to get these guys for 5 years. Five long and tiring years. I am freaking happy as a clam right now.
Other than hurricane Katrina and Rita, September and October of 2005 will go down in history as the greatest event in history, as far as I am concerned.
October 6th, 2005 at 4:35 pmThis is the reason for the terror speach today. Distract, distract.
Hey Judith Miller, did ya give ol porky up?
October 6th, 2005 at 4:40 pmThem’s fightin’ words. I don’t have a conservative bone in my body. I just think that the struggle is barely begun. We’re nowhere near the end of this kidnapping of our government, in my opinion.
I hope that one day soon, all of you can say to me “I told you so”.
October 6th, 2005 at 4:41 pmEARTH TO Blue State Red EARTH TO Blue State Red —–
The Clintons didn’t commit any crimes, you see? That’s why no evidence was found, and that’s why they weren’t indicted.
Nice work, though. Every word in #1 is true. You’re a regular Sean Hannity!
October 6th, 2005 at 4:53 pmFar worse things have gone on in the W.H. What about Clinton’s cock (aka “the Cuttlefish of Kthulu”)? It’s the reason for 9/11, Plame, AND Katrina.
October 6th, 2005 at 4:57 pmDoes anyone here really believe that Karl Rove will persecuted as deligently for his treasonous behavior as the same republican system applied to President Clinton over a lousy office affair?
Get real.
October 6th, 2005 at 4:59 pmI warned him. I told that idiot son-of-an-a$$hole I’d roll over on him if he didn’t call the dogs off! No one messes with Karl, ya see? Now, he’s in for the ratf%#$ing of his life! Legacy? Legacy-u-later, you mean!
October 6th, 2005 at 5:01 pmmakr #16—- I understand what you’re saying. What these people are feeling is elation that people who are doing very harmful things to the country are being called out for their actions and not getting away with them. You’re feelings of dismay are no doubt sincere. I certainly wouldn’t question them. But you’re reacting to the crime, the others are reacting to the fact that the perpetrators have been indicted, and that’s a good thing. The fact that they got in office and sabotaged the government is not a good thing.
So let’s not get too antagonistic about this, people, please? You and Jay are not really in any serious disagreement. That’s my take anyway.
By the way, I think your take on this is much more serious and thoughtful, and that kind of reaction can only yield better results for our side.
October 6th, 2005 at 5:01 pmGet all of the latest Rove articles, briefings, timelines, legal documents and other essential materials. Visit:
The Rove/PlameGate Scandal Center.
October 6th, 2005 at 5:03 pm[…] The “breaking news” of White House Chief of Staff Karl Rove giving more testimony has the liberal bloggers‘ panties in a wad. […]
October 6th, 2005 at 5:05 pmThis is beginning to be as boring as Katrina 24/7.
Comment by Blue State Red — October 6, 2005 @ 3:32 pm
Boring? Ha! Just look at who’s first up. He’s lying. But you all knew that. He’s sweating bullets just ike the WH. This ain’t no blow job, asshole. This is life in prison maybe for these old farts. Ask Tommy boy how bored he is.
October 6th, 2005 at 5:08 pmsppyder, Why would Rove pick door #1, when #3’s available?
October 6th, 2005 at 5:12 pm“This is beginning to be as boring as Katrina 24/7.
Comment by Blue State Red”
Yeah, seeing poor dead black people must be a real drag for a selfish hate filled bigot like you…
October 6th, 2005 at 5:26 pmTerror Alert = Rove Guilty
October 6th, 2005 at 5:34 pm“They, too, got away, scot-free, without suffering any criminal penalties.”
Could it be because the prosecutors couldn’t find any crime to pin on them?
Clintons were investigated by a partisan prosecutor from the opposition party who spent 6 years, $60+ million dollars in a jihad against them and still came up empty handed. Starr investigated every check Clintons had written, going back decades.
Plame investigation is investigated by a rebublican prosecutor handpicked by a republican attorney general working for a republican president. The investigation has been going on for less than 2 years and the prosecutor has not spent anywhere near the amount of money Starr spent.
It seems to me you are comparing apples and oranges.
October 6th, 2005 at 5:44 pmre. indictment jubilation — don’t look now but the DeLay indictments are starting to look a little fishy (via the Austin Statesman, a left leaning paper):
http://www.statesman.com/ opinion/ content/ editorial/ stories/ 10/ 5earle_edit.html
http://www.statesman.com/ metrostate/ content/ metro/ stories/ 10/ 5earle.html
Remember when the Stanford band ran onto the football field before the end of game vs. Cal — and Cal scored on the kickoff return? You are the Stanford tuba player about to be run over…
October 6th, 2005 at 5:45 pm[…] Rove going back before the grand jury! […]
October 6th, 2005 at 5:52 pmThere is only ONE reason that Rove is going back to testify. He knows they got him stone cold on perjury. The only crime one can “fix” before prosecution is perjury. The only questions now are what did he lie about and what additional charges are there. He would not be going back to testify for any other reason if he didn’t already have a deal with the prosecutor. I’m sure Fitzgerald hasn’t given him a deal because he would only do so if Rove had information on someone higher up and I doubt Rove is going to roll on Bush. Rove’s testimony without substantial corroboration wouldn’t be worth much anyway, it’s not like he has a great reputation for truthfullness, especially if he’s already lied to the Grand jury under oath.
Rove knows he’s toast. He’s just trying to avoid a perjury charge also.
October 6th, 2005 at 6:05 pmHey, CC #66, nice touch with the link to the Austin Statesman, and suggesting it is a “left leaning” rag. That ought to startle the crap outta the liberals here, so thanks for helping me out.
But correct me if I’m wrong, CC, but even though they might lean left as far as Texas politics are concerned, the Statesman endorsed President Bush for reelection in 2004? And in 2000? And his reelection run for governor in 1998? Yeah on all accounts, my friend. I mean, I’m on your side, but whats the big surprise that the Statesman would now cover over “Turd Blossom” with sand, like any good cat would?
October 6th, 2005 at 6:17 pm#51 WOW.
October 6th, 2005 at 6:18 pmRemember when the Stanford band ran onto the football field before the end of game vs. Cal — and Cal scored on the kickoff return? You are the Stanford tuba player about to be run over…
Comment by Concerned Conservative — October 6, 2005 @ 5:45 pm
You are on the wrong indictment thread. What? There are about four of them now. It’s no wonder you are confused. Thank you for providing us with some poor reporter’s rehash of Dick DeGuerin’s spin. Go and sit on it and spin to your heart’s content.
October 6th, 2005 at 6:19 pm“The Clintons didn’t commit any crimes, you see? That’s why no evidence was found, and that’s why they weren’t indicted.”
Boy are you stuck on stupid. Bill Clinton was impeached, disbarred and fined a bunch of money for lying in a federal court proceeding - but he didn’t commit any crimes. And those billings records just showed up in the White House by magic. And the travel office folks all resigned voluntarily. And those FBI files walked themselves from DOJ to the White House all by their lonseome selves. And Marc Rich is a really nice man who was wrongly accused. Now who’s kidding whom?
As for Rove, there are a dozen or more possible reasons for a further grand jury appearance, including the innocent possibility that he will be asked about matters on which Judy Miller has now testified - matters that were not on the record when Rove last testified.
And as for DeLay, I’m getting more and more eager to see this one go to trial. Given the defects in Ronnie Earle’s first grand jury indictment, and the refusal of the second grand jury to indict at all, and given Earle’s desperate rush to a third grand jury for a money laundering indictment that will NEVER stick, I like Tom DeLay’s chances one heckuva lot better than Ronnie Earle’s. As Mort Kondracke said, if it’s true that most grand juries will indict a ham sandwich, this new indictment gives new meaning to the phrase “fast food.”
October 6th, 2005 at 6:21 pmRover & delay will soon be (as Chris Rock puts it) tossin’ salads.
October 6th, 2005 at 6:27 pmYou are the Stanford tuba player about to be run over…
Geez, you can’t even get that right. It was a trombone player.
October 6th, 2005 at 6:35 pmHey, Red #72, I like your “stuck on stupid” shot up there about the Clinton’s. You’re right to keep throwing up how Bill was “impeached, disbarred, and fined for lyiing in Federal Court” and I would add, dishonored.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but that all came after 8 different REPUBLICAN investigations, seven years of dogging everything from old land deals to trying to travel office and a $40 million dollar investigation by Ken Starr for
GET READY FOR THIS:
being too ashamed to admit he had a sexual fling with an office girl.
I mean, I’m on your side here and us conservatives need to point out the real reason that made Clinton a criminal, don’t you think? Like you and Mort Kondracke said, just goes to show you how a grand jury will indict a ham sandwich, all right.
Hey, before I go, I’ll bet you a beer that ol’ DeLay’s butt is really puckering right now, don’t you?
October 6th, 2005 at 6:54 pmStupid is defending killers, while wasting time smearing an ex-president. Clinton was impeached for a BLOW JOB, we are NOT talking about a blowjob here… We are talking LIES of the highest magnitude. Hundreds of thousands are dead! Our finest young men and women are stuck in hell hole without adequate resources. Assholes who sit around here talking about how Clinton was impeached are so far beyond flunking an IQ test it’s almost laughable, except for people are still dying.
October 6th, 2005 at 6:55 pmI am amazed that the so-called liberals and the so-called conservatives are unable to see the noses on their collective faces. Blue defends the criminal Clinton because he speaks liberalese. Red defends the present criminal regime because he claims consevativism. Truth is both parties are “bought and paid for” by the same corporations. The agenda is the same. See trilateralism for the meaning to the illusion of choice.
October 6th, 2005 at 7:12 pmI just got kicked off Redstate.org.
There’s an article on there about 30 pieces of silver by “Thomasâ€
Why don’t you guys crash their party.
October 6th, 2005 at 7:48 pmHis thread is a joke about being conservative.
Rove ain’t innocently coming back to answer new questions. He wasn’t asked by the prosecutor to come back, he has all he needs. The article says that the prosecutor accepted Rove’s offer to come back and testify. The only reason Rove would do such a thing is to try to “correct” some perjurous statements he’s already made and which he knows that he’s going to be nailed on. Fat boy is toast. By the way, this has nothing to do with Clinton. It only has to do with treason, during the time of war, for petty political revenge. Almost as bad as a blowjob between two consenting adults, but not quite.
October 6th, 2005 at 7:49 pmmami,
You are correct and until the lives of enough Americans get to the point that they are ready to snap out of their media-induced stupor, we have R’s and D’s and nothing else. While the D’s sins are different (selective complicity, spinelessness), to my knowledge they have never, ever done the following:
Preemptively attacked a sovereign nation.
Tried to legally justify a policy of torture.
Lied so big and so frequently to Americans.
Used wedge issues as a weapon to tear Americans apart.
Slimed EVERY SINGLE dissident figure that dared cross it.
Mass. liberal and makr,
I’m glad we’re on the same side. I’m thankful that the opportunity to communicate with politically sane Americans is right here at my fingertips. I strongly agree that this is no time to rest on laurels, so much more needs to happen before this country is forced back on course. Please pardon the exuberance at the GOP’s swamp of trouble…..I assure you it will be short-lived. I don’t know if schadenfreude is a guilty pleasure or something more devious, but I will celebrate a Rove indictment and move on. As long as we keep hammering these criminals with letters to congressman, senators, and editors and by taking to the streets (and yes blogging!) we’re involved, we’re focused and we CAN and WILL make a difference.
Peace!
October 6th, 2005 at 7:57 pmMichael Chertoff, is a dual national with Israeli roots. I don’t know why a foreign or duel citizen is allowed to hold office in this country. That is such a breach of security. I understand Israel also has a security contract to monitor all communications that happen over the phones. I guess this way they don’t need to worry about that right to privacy thing…
October 6th, 2005 at 9:50 pmBlue State Red said in #72: “Bill Clinton was impeached, disbarred and fined a bunch of money for lying in a federal court proceeding.”
Clinton wasn’t disbarred. He gets his law license back next year.
And he was fined for civil contempt of court, not perjury.
But he was impeached. so you’re one for three.
October 6th, 2005 at 9:51 pmIn #46, Ugh said: “Well, it seems that Rove’s lawyer has stated (today) that Rove does not have a letter saying he is a target … So lets dial the hopes back, just a little.”
The lawyer’s statement is meaningless. The lack of a target letter merely indicates that Fitzgerald has not yet decided to indict him. If he decides, he can issue the letter and then the indictment. He could even hand Rove the letter as he leaves the grand jury room.
October 6th, 2005 at 9:56 pmUh-oh!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ wp-dyn/ content/ article/ 2005/ 10/ 06/ AR2005100601903.html
October 7th, 2005 at 12:50 amAnd as for DeLay, I’m getting more and more eager to see this one go to trial. Given the defects in Ronnie Earle’s first grand jury indictment, and the refusal of the second grand jury to indict at all, and given Earle’s desperate rush to a third grand jury for a money laundering indictment that will NEVER stick, I like Tom DeLay’s chances one heckuva lot better than Ronnie Earle’s. As Mort Kondracke said, if it’s true that most grand juries will indict a ham sandwich, this new indictment gives new meaning to the phrase “fast food.â€
Comment by Blue State Red
Glad you are so eager. Be careful what you wish for. You just got it. I bet he cops a plea.
October 7th, 2005 at 12:52 am#80, looks like you forgot about Vietnam. Gulf of Tonkin was cooked up on LBJ’s watch - that was a whopper of a lie. A lot of people got killed defending their country (Vietnam) because of it.
October 7th, 2005 at 12:59 amMami-
I remember someone else, 5 years and $800BB ago, saying there wasn’t a “dime’s worth of difference” between a Republican and a Democrat. I think that triangulated very well for Bush…don’t you?
Yeah, there are some Democrats that I’d just as soon see leave the Party, but I’ll take the Party of FDR, Kennedy, Carter, and Clinton every day over the Syndicate of Nixon, Reagan, Bush, and Dimson.
October 7th, 2005 at 1:02 amYou idiot “conservatives” will never accept that millions of dollars were spent on a witch hunt to go after the Clinton’s for no legitimate reason while all your boys are as dirty as the devil himself. And you think you are the “righteous ones”.
This is who you are. This is what you look like to us, us being the normal people in this country. You are truly deluded and sick like the follower of this pedophile priest who hung himself after murdering two men who were about to expose him. His followers are as sick as he was, as you are, as all conservatives are.
http://www.citypages.com/ databank/ 26/ 1296/ article13748.asp
October 7th, 2005 at 1:03 am#86 The difference being that LBJ realized the folly of Viet Nam and chose not to run again. Too bad Bush didn’t have the same humility and honesty with the American people.
This isn’t LBJ we are discussing; we are dealing with someone who apparently slept through his history major at Yale and, instead, gets his foreign policy directives directly from God….when he’s not falling off his bycycle.
October 7th, 2005 at 1:10 amWhile I’d certainly love to see Karl Rove finally get some of what he’s got coming to him, I’m not at all convinced yet that he’s even going to be indicted, let alone convinced that Bush would let that indictment stand for long without a pardon.
As I understand it, Rove’s offer to re-appear before the grand jury has been on the table since July. If this is the case, it seems to me that he’d have had to have been convinced as far back as mid-summer that he was to be indicted for perjury for this offer to be about tying together incompatable stories to avoid a perjury charge.
Obviously something’s changed if Fitzgerald went out of his way to suddenly warn Rove that there’s no guarantee against his eventual indictment. I’m just not so sure that the story that seems most common tonight when parsing the news of tomorrow’s scheduled testimony is really anything to do with what’s actually happening.
I may well be wrong, though, and I actually tend to hope that I am.
In any case, I agree with those who say that, while it would be a good sign of things to come if at least some of the more high-profile corrupt Republicans were to finally have to face some degree of legal responsibility and consequences for their actions, it’s only “the end of the beginning” as far as taking back the government from the worst of them goes. There’s still the tiny matter of the Democrats still being an absolute embarrassment as an “opposition party”, and how to fix that, pronto.
October 7th, 2005 at 1:28 amWhat kind of prison gang will this generation of Republican crooks form? How many times will Rover make the Ned Beatty from Deliverance noise in the dark night of the cell? Limbaugh can join him on drugs charges and they can wear matching muumuus on the cell block, and tell each other how it’s better to pee sitting down anyway. Delay and Abramoff can do their best Ann Coulter impersonations. “Say something Rumsfeldy when I do that! Yeah baby yeah!”
October 7th, 2005 at 2:34 am#66
You call that left leaning. Man you must be so far to the right that Bill O’Rielly and Anne Coulter are jealous.
You’re fvcking whack!
October 7th, 2005 at 3:25 amSpudge,
Most americans have moved to the right in the last 25 years as the media consolidation and the fairness in media doctrine did away with the duty of the press to accurately portray stories…
The reality is that when 55% of americans believe that Genesis is true, clearly there’s been a reichwing takeover of the rational brain of the average american. The reichwing is so devoid of facts, their latest tactic is to setup shadow and shady organizations that mirror legitimate ones - and push ‘voodoo’ science. It’s just another example of ‘reichwing bias’ that prohibits them from thinking with their rational brains… Their fear, hatred and greed always seem to undermine any sense of rational thought that peeks its head up..
October 7th, 2005 at 3:30 amRyan,
No joke. I can’t believe that anyone that leans to the right could ever think that is left leaning shit. At least when we try to prove a point, we use either direct quotes from transcripts, video or something else that is tangible. Thes morons think an opinion piece is fact.
Sheeeesh!
October 7th, 2005 at 3:33 amTBSA—- Thanks. I should apologize for my brief and very petulant reply to the ad hominem attack by Blue State Red, but I won’t. I won’t stand for being called stupid by some flamethrowing troll, or anybody else for that matter.
By the way, don’t be fooled by the pompous opinions of amateur lawyers concerning the Texas grand jury indictment. They say that there’s no evidence in the indictment. This is true. As always, however, there is a missing fact that exposes their argument for what it is, desperate, contorted, pseudo-analysis. Texas law does not require that such an indictment contain incriminating evidence. Most states do, but not Texas.
Earle is just using the rule to his advantage.
Jay—– Amen. Peace to you. As for schadenfreude, let’s be clear. If someone who assaulted your mother gets put in jail, and you’re happy about it, is that schadenfreude?
October 7th, 2005 at 10:48 amInnocent Bystander-
dk has a point. I’m not so sure that LBJ realized his folly. I do believe that he sincerely believed he was doing the right thing by going in there; he was an anti-communist true believer. He just realized that he wasn’t going to be re-elected.
The Vietnam adventure revealed the limits of JFK’s and LBJ’s liberalism. They were both ardent cold warriors. More importantly though, it was a CIA project from the beginning (1954, right after they got done with Guatemala), and the two presidents were manipulated or intimidated into going along. This is just my view of it. I have no evidence to back up the 2nd part, but there’s lots of evidence showing the CIA’s involvement. It was their idea to assasinate Diem, not Kennedy’s.
October 7th, 2005 at 11:05 am#66, Conserved Conservative. I always knew he was a troll. And #90, there is a troll if I ever saw one. What is a good sign is that they no longer think it’s effective to profess their idiocy and fringe lunacy openly and unabashedly. They have toned down their rhetoric, like cowards hiding and on the run.
October 7th, 2005 at 1:07 pm96. Mass Liberal
I don’t disagree. LBJ in 1964 was a different person than he was 4 years later. I also agree that our CIA in those years were stuffed with some of the most reactionary people in our society. The CIA most certainly spun the evidence to fit their agenda. Today, the reactionaries are in the Executive Branch and they are doing the intel cooking to fit their agenda. The outcomes will be pretty much the same. A loss of US prestige and credibility while stuck in quagmire that we can’t win but can only decide the magnitude of our loss.
October 7th, 2005 at 7:23 pmWar Protest - Nov 10 2005 Take a day off! – Please Read
If you feel, as the majority of Americans and people throughout the world do, that the war in Iraq is wrong, and you wish you had a way to show the Bush Administration, the Government of the United States, and the world, how you feel about it, then join us in our world wide walk out on November 10th 2005.
Show the world how you feel, and just how many of us feel this way. Let’s drive the point home by taking away from them their most precious item; money.
On November 10th 2005, unless you hold a position which people rely upon in the event of an emergency (you work at a hospital, a firemen, policemen etc), don’t go to work. Try not to drive your car; don’t watch T.V.; don’t use the internet. Stay at home. Read a book. Play with your kids. Engage in a hobby.
Plan a vacation day at work. Call in sick. Use your best judgment on how to take this day off.
If we don’t get their attention this way, we’ll just do it again, until we do.
If the people speak, and speak together, they have to listen.
Please email this to as many of your friends and colleagues as you wish/can.
October 7th, 2005 at 7:43 pmDarn it Smedley, you guys picked the same day as us. We thought Nov.10th would be the day where we would show our support for the War effort. We plan on showing this support by making sure we all makes it to work that day, even if we are a little ill. No car pooling either, we’ll all be driving individual vehicles wherever possible. Oh yeah, and we will just keep doing this every day too, until you guys start to pay attention and listen to reason.
October 7th, 2005 at 9:09 pm“And #90, there is a troll if I ever saw one.”
#99, how am I a troll? Because I’m still not completely convinced that Rove, who IMHO has ALL of this trouble coming and then some, isn’t going to find some way of weaseling out of this jam? Christ, that’s what con men like Rove DO. He’s made a career out of running political cons, and I’m sure you know as well as I do that he’s made himself and his circle disturbingly close to being untouchable.
I honestly do hope that he gets taken down by Fitzgerald and that he actually has to do time over this. I’ve just seen him and Bush and the rest of them avoid consequences for their actions way too often to not take a wait-and-see approach on this. If Rove does actually go down, believe me I’ll be popping champagne and sparking up a victory joint just like the rest of y’all.
As for my criticisms of the Democrats, it’s only because I expect a lot more of them than what they’ve been showing. No, I don’t think they’ve been a particularly effective opposition party of late, and I think they need to get past this thing where they’re either trying to be ersatz Republicans, or else they’re practically apologizing for being associated with liberals. Personally, I think the national Democratic party needs to strap on a set of cast-iron balls and get on with it. I think they’re full of potential to be an effective opposition party, but they actually need to get it together to start actually BEING one.
If any of that makes me a troll, so be it.
October 8th, 2005 at 1:26 amAw hell, I meant 97, not 99.
That’ll teach me to watch more than two episodes of Get Smart in a row, eh? ;^)
(Sorry ’bout that, 99…)
October 8th, 2005 at 1:29 am