Powerline: The “Dumbest Bit of Political Analysis” We’ve Seen in a Long Time
Powerline: The “Dumbest Bit of Political Analysis” We’ve Seen in a Long Time
In his October 12 column, NBC’s Howard Fineman wrote “what really frosts the religious types is that Bush evidently feels that he can only satisfy them by stealth — by nominating someone with absolutely no paper trail. It’s an affront.” Hinderaker, who called the column the “dumbest bit of political analysis I’ve seen in a long time,” provided this rebuttal:
I am not aware of a single religious leader who has in any way objected to the Miers nomination or called it an “affront” to religious people. I know a great many religious conservatives, and not a single one of them adopts this view.
Here are some major religious conservative groups that have already objected:
Liberty Counsel: Conservative advocacy group with close ties to Jerry Falwell, dedicated to advancing religious freedom, the sanctity of human life, and the traditional family.
“First, the President had a number of highly qualified candidates with proven track records and well-developed judicial philosophies. He passed over them and chose an invisible nominee. Second, selecting a nominee who has held her views in silence for 60 years sends a wrong message to conservatives…”
Concerned Women for America: Coalition of conservative women that promotes biblical values and family traditions.
“Like CWA, most of those emphasizing Miss Miers’ faith have resisted any attempt to impose a religious test on any person seeking public office. The Constitution forbids it. We find it patronizing and hypocritical to focus on her faith in order to gain support for Miss Miers.”
Operation Rescue: Group dedicated to ending abortion and committed to “the great and historic creeds of our Christian faith.”
“We must be given a nominee that will restore the protections of personhood to the pre-born…Bush was given one mandate by the American people in the last election and that was to reform the Supreme Court. Reform does not come in a brown paper bag.”
Join our efforts to provide a modicum of accuracy to Powerline. Email Hinderaker at jhinderaker@faegre.com and tell him to correct the record for his readers.
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I have no idea who this guy is, but he seems like a real tool.
October 14th, 2005 at 9:26 amOr call him. His number's (612)220-1060.
October 14th, 2005 at 9:33 amSee http://TheFuturum.com - you can send message to eternity there.
October 14th, 2005 at 9:33 amThis is the same website that told Bill O'reilly that they only serve to showcase conservitive ideas, that they don't "slime people". Of course they have slimed Jimmy Carter and now Howard Fineman, who is as meek as they come. It is sad that this guy is the best the right wing blogs have to offer. Man, could you do some research before you pop off?
October 14th, 2005 at 9:36 amMan, could you do some research before you pop off?
Like all right wing "news" organs, Hinder don' need no steenkin' research. If a bit of alleged information supports his cause, then as far as he's concerned it's true.
October 14th, 2005 at 9:39 amI thought that the Supreme Court was suppose to be FAIR for all AMERICANS not just the RIGHT WING CONSERVATIVE RELIGIOUS NUTS.
October 14th, 2005 at 9:47 amIt's amazing that these people can spout off as they do without doing any fact-checking at all.
October 14th, 2005 at 9:47 amIf it is easy enough for us to learn the facts, people like Hinderaker are no better than flim-flam men of the past peddling their snake oil cures.
Some people believed them too, unfortunately.
So to you, disagreeing with Fineman equals "sliming" him?
You think that powerlineblog.com is a "'news' organ"
October 14th, 2005 at 9:57 amPoor Hinderaker, will he ever get his head out of his ass?
October 14th, 2005 at 10:06 amTomaig,
To most people, the term "sliming" has indeed become synonymous with "falsely accusing". So yeah, I think it fits.
And you'll note that the word "news" was put in quotes, above.
October 14th, 2005 at 10:13 amSpinmaker apparently hasn't been paying attention since Miers was nominated... the religious people are some of her most vocal opponents...
October 14th, 2005 at 10:28 amI've written to him before with corrections. He never addresses them, either in a reply or on the website.
October 14th, 2005 at 10:32 amTomaig, you should go to newsbusters to post, much more up your alley, rather than annoying people here and at newshounds.
Up, up, and away!
Assrocket zooms past facts again!
October 14th, 2005 at 10:40 amTo be serious for a moment, how bad has it gotten when the word of religious leaders is no better than that of politicians?
I know I'm expressing the painfully obvious here, but look a little deeper. Between the child sex scandals, political bedding of the Republicans and the foment of hatred (i.e. Eric Rudolph), they are destroying the credibility of what they supposedly hold dear.
If there is a God, I'll bet she's pissed!
Now, to not be serious: Dr. Phil to Intervene in Troubled Republican Family
“These guys need more than a check-up from the neck-up. I’m going to have to do a full cranial colonic. I mean they got more troubles than a trailer park,†said Dr. Phil...
October 14th, 2005 at 10:48 amHinderaker ('Hind-Raker')..... is that REALLY this guy's name? How appropriate, considering he is a 'tool' of the spin machine. But in all fairness, the last sentence could be true, if he is like Bush and is just spoon-fed info on the world around him, and tries desperately to make it all fit what he believes rather than looking at what is really going on. But he's not really talking to the American people - he's talking to the sheeple, trying to herd them back into the CON-Troll pen. The base is cracking up, and they are petrified. At this point they mainly want damage control on their faltering base. Come on, sheeple, open your eyes: you can blindly trust God if you Will, but don't ever blindly trust a single human being. All of this mess (that they created) will either end in a relieving, "Well, the system DOES work, and justice can prevail," ... or.... the alternative is too depressing to consider right now. I don't like fascism, totalitarianism, or corruption. p.s. who is this Hinderaker guy, anyway?
October 14th, 2005 at 10:49 am"I am not aware."
Story of AssRocket's life.
October 14th, 2005 at 10:50 amHinderaker is experiencing the pain that comes with cognitive dissonance. He's in denial over:
"The Coming Conservative Crack Up."
October 14th, 2005 at 11:41 amI'm pretty sure what Hindrocket is not aware of would fill several books.
October 14th, 2005 at 11:45 amThe main issue is that none of the Bush administration is really religious. They have taken over the Chrisitian religion and are using its followers. They do not follow any of the teachings of Christ. In fact, I would have to say that they do nothing but the opposite of what Jesus taught.
That is where Harriet Miers comes in and the Christians are mad. They have no idea who this person is. Why, because she is not a Christisn.
The real Christians know each other. It is like a club of sorts. My mother is a devout Christian and knows about pastors and congrigation from all over the US. You can add the fact that she knows hundreds of southern gospel quartets to that also.
Now take that and add it to the fact that the religious group are not supporting her and what does that tell you?
The Bush administration has nominated another stoog and is telling everybody she is religious, to appease the religious right. The problem is that Bush and company take the religious people to be stupid. They may be sheep, but they are not stupid.
My mother now very much dislikes Bush. I can't say that she hates him, because she is a true Christian and doesn't hate anybody.
October 14th, 2005 at 11:47 amHindraker, Assrocket, they're just wonderful fodder for us. But don't expect him to ever correct himself on any issue. I have yet to see that happen.
October 14th, 2005 at 11:49 amspudgeboy: How true! Similar to all of the GOP talk about the dems taking the black vote for granted, the righties have long since proved that they are corrupt and as immoral as any dem out there. Visit redmorals.com to look at how hypocritical these people have been. Atleast the dems don't pretend to be the Cleavers.
October 14th, 2005 at 12:05 pmPower Line may have slipped up this time, but it's a great blog usually. Step off.
October 14th, 2005 at 12:09 pm"Power Line may have slipped up this time, but it’s a great blog usually. Step off."
Comment by RedStateProud — October 14, 2005 @ 12:09 pm
So why are you here confronting us? Why don't you tell Assrocket how much you value his blog? Oh, yeah, Assrocket DOESN'T ALLOW COMMENTS!
October 14th, 2005 at 12:17 pmOr to put it another way, Assblaster doesn't allow comments because the only opinion he values is his own.
October 14th, 2005 at 12:22 pm"Power Line may have slipped up this time, but it’s a great blog usually. Step off."
Go fvck yourself. I will step off when the republican party, in its current state is disbanded. It is corrupt to the core. ANybody that backs this adminstration should be locked in a mental instution.
I don't have anything against the real conservatives, but these NeoCons have got to go. They give real conservatives a bad name.
Here is another story. We had a congressional seat open up here around Laguna Beach. A very republican area. The race was not Dem versus Repub. It was Repub vs Repub. One candidate was a NeoCon, the other was a republican. The republican was on the radio saying "We need to take back our party from these religious whackos. This isn't what our party was founded on."
You NeoCons are going down.
October 14th, 2005 at 12:31 pmStupid trolls can't stay away from us. They are totally engrossed with us and the Clintons. We are being stalked and obsessed about daily, even hourly. We can really piss them off easily and, possibly, make them start some high blood pressure meds that these greedy drug companies can sell them.
C'mon trolls, take the bait. I know you want to. I know you won't be able to stop, you are weak and cannot help it. C'mon, show your true selves. Let's have some of that Clinton did it and everyone is smearing poor innocent Delay.
They must post here. I bet there are a bunch that just hang out here all day long sweating and biting their nails to nubs. They are THAT weak.
October 14th, 2005 at 12:37 pmThinkProgress:
You might want to add Alan Keyes to the list of anti-Miers religious conservatives (who Hindrocket has supposedly never heard of).
October 14th, 2005 at 12:38 pmRyan, if they checked their facts and compared them with MANY different outlest, they would, indeed, see that they are wrong and just vomiting others' lunches. They can't be wrong or their fragile egos would topple.
October 14th, 2005 at 12:41 pmDon't be too hard on the trolls. We're not allowed to post our opinions on their blogs, so this is the only place a discussion between the two sides can actually occur. Keep the channel open.
October 14th, 2005 at 1:45 pmKen, thanks for the tip!!
October 14th, 2005 at 1:47 pmI e mailed Mr. Hindrocket and received a snarky reply wondering where I got his e mail address. He says it is his work e mail ... haven't ratted you folks out tho'. LOL.
October 14th, 2005 at 2:57 pmAs an ex Minnesotan, I believe his law firm is politically savy - and well placed. I have never visited his web site so was unaware he does not provide an area to comment. All I know is he DOES NOT want to receive e-mail at the provided address. Aloha!
October 14th, 2005 at 3:13 pmNo, you've got it all wrong. This is just a typo. A period was put in instead of a colon. What Hinderacher meant to say was:
With all due respect to Mr. Fineman, this is the dumbest bit of political analysis I've seen in a long time: I am not aware of a single religious leader who has in any way objected to the Miers nomination or called it an "affront" to religious people. I know a great many religious conservatives, and not a single one of them adopts this view.
October 14th, 2005 at 3:37 pmWhen you email Assrocket, he usual replies with the sentence below, copied and pasted, and then he bans your email address.
"Wow, you must be a liberal! Don't worry, it's a curable condition. Your county probably has agencies that could help."
But don't let that stop you. He needs to hear from people. He gets my vote for the single most dishonest ass in all political commentary.
October 14th, 2005 at 3:38 pmHere is Hinderaker's reply on Powerline (I think he kind of blows you out of the water):
"The lefty site tried to contradict my statement by offering three examples of "religious leaders" who have opposed Miers:
1) Liberty Counsel. I, personally, had never heard of Liberty Counsel, but that organization is self-evidently not a "religious leader." What was the moonbats' justification for including this organization on their list of religious leaders? The group has "close ties to Jerry Falwell." Oh, really? Guess what: Falwell has come out in support of the Miers nomination.
2) Concerned Women for America. This is a well-respected, secular organization that, once again, is obviously not a "religious leader." Moreover, CWA has reserved judgment on the Miers nomination.
3) Operation Rescue. I kid you not. Once again, this fringe anti-abortion organization may be a lot of things, but it is not a "religious leader." Is its President, Troy Newman, even a minister? Beats me, but he certainly isn't a religious leader, either.
So there you have it. The loonies strike out again.
More important, really, is the left's inability to engage in rational debate at any level. It may well be that at some point, someone who could plausibly be considered a "religious leader" could oppose Harriet Miers' nomination. So what? That would not in any way detract from my point, which was that Fineman's suggestion that religious conservatives, as a group, are so "affronted" by the nomination that none of the Republican Senators who count on their support will vote for the nomination, was ludicrous.
October 14th, 2005 at 3:41 pmSo Hindrocket thinks that the Concerned Women For America is a "well-respected secular organization?
Mmmmm. From the CWFA website:
CWA is built on prayer and action.
We are the nation's largest public policy women's organization with a rich 25-year history of helping our members across the country bring Biblical principles into all levels of public policy.
What We Do
We help people focus on six core issues, which we have determined need Biblical principles most and where we can have the greatest impact. At its root, each of these issues is a battle over worldviews.
ONCE AGAIN, ASSROCKET DOESN'T KNOW WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT....
October 14th, 2005 at 4:07 pm#25 - "Go fvck yourself. I will step off when the republican party, in its current state is disbanded. It is corrupt to the core. ANybody that backs this adminstration should be locked in a mental instution."
Comment by Sponge
Dear Sponge - Didn't Stalin, Mao and Ho Ho Ho Chi Minh send people who disagreed to mental institution, "re-education" camps and worse? If you guys ever come to power will we, your opposition, re-educated, flogged or worse. Who was it who said, "Liberalism is a mental disorder," ??? But....we respect your right to be openly stupid - so much so that sometimes we find your musings humourous
October 14th, 2005 at 4:09 pmWhy lie or make stuff up?
It's called "Heavenly Deception"...
Cults call it that. It means that it is OK to lie and deceive in order to save the world for "heaven" or in this case, right wingnuttery. The right believes God takes a personal interest in their success. IN fact, from what I understand from my right wing friends, God's biggest problem with the USA is the high taxes we have on the wealthy. God personally hates taxes. Everyday He gets a report on how well Grover is doing. Grover is God's favorite person on the planet.
The right literally operates like a cult. They basically have since they welcomed their savior and "go to" guy, Moon, into the group to help them "subdue" our nation right and theocratic. Their sugar daddy and mind molder, Moon, has outspent Scaife brining theocratic and fascist policies to America.
It's Moon's vision. Thanks to a lot of soul selling on the right, he has been quite successful.
Moon brags that the Korean government learned from his ways. Obviously, the conservative movement has "learned" from his ways also.
Read some about the conservative's savior, the man who guided the right, molded the right, trained the right with his front groups and cash, much of which was the swindled from the Japanese here:
http://cellwhitman.blogspot.com/
October 14th, 2005 at 4:29 pmDear Sponge - Didn’t Stalin, Mao and Ho Ho Ho Chi Minh send people who disagreed to mental institution, “re-education†camps and worse?
Big difference. They were politica enemies and outspoken critics. You clowns are batshit insane and criminally, negligent and reckless. If it was up to me, I'd just shoot you. Stick with Spudgeboy. He'll treat you right.
October 14th, 2005 at 4:32 pm#37 - Thanks for letting us know his response.
Is everyone else getting the same reply?
October 14th, 2005 at 4:38 pmAphro, who is stupid? Who can't stay away from us? Who enjoys coming here to bash people? Who is it that feels a certain amount of comfort when trying to make others upset (which we don't). Who thinks it a sport to try to undermine others? Who gets his/her thrills from being a party crasher?
You are weird. Your kind are strange folks. When I'm not invited to a party, I don't go.
October 14th, 2005 at 4:41 pmcorrect me if I'm wrong, but the purpose of justice is to be blind and settle thing fairly based on the facts.
October 14th, 2005 at 4:48 pmIf the religious right is pushing for a judge that will swing the court towards a certain decision isn't that against the law? Don't people go to jail for that?
I'm tired of fihjting R wingers, but realize the fight must be fought. The law demands that all people be heard and that the will of the people prevail, not tjust those with certain religious beliefs.
"Dear Sponge - Didn’t Stalin, Mao and Ho Ho Ho Chi Minh send people who disagreed to mental institution, “re-education†camps and worse? If you guys ever come to power will we, your opposition, re-educated, flogged or worse. Who was it who said, “Liberalism is a mental disorder,†??? But….we respect your right to be openly stupid - so much so that sometimes we find your musings humourous"
Actually it was Savage who said that, but he's insane so no one but lunatics like you listened. As for your constant references to commies - your paranoid freakdom is showing. How ironic that someone who's an ACTUAL fascist accuses those who believe in a liberal democracy of being a commie. Hate blinds everything, and miss windbag is stumbling over ManCoulter's schlong...
October 14th, 2005 at 4:50 pm[...] John Hinderaker of the popular right-wing blog Powerline has responded to our post this morning. He never appreciates it when we fact check his posts, this time calling us “loony,” “goofballs,” and “moonbats.” [...]
October 14th, 2005 at 5:08 pm#46 Is Coulter really a trans-sexual? I can't stand to hear him/her, so I look away. But, if that is the case then I guess I should be a bit more forgiving of the hate fest he/she spews. If it's just self-hatred, than perhaps we should try to understand.
October 14th, 2005 at 5:49 pmWhich has nothing to do with religion in the right (or left for that matter). I just wonder why the party that promotes hatred of gay people seems to have so many gay people running it. As a hetero (I'm not ashamed of it either!), I can't see jeezus turning away homosexuals. I could see him giving the shrub a boot in the ass down to see a certain fallen angel.
It would help a lot if "Think Progress" had someone who knows and understands religious concervatives as real people. Amanda clearly does not know what she is talking about when she identifies Liberty Counsel, Concerned Women for America, and Operation Rescue as "some major religious conservative groups that have already objected" to the Miers nomination.
To begin with, none of these organizations are "major religious conservative groups." Liberty Counsel is an obscure non-profit. Operation Rescue while better known, is out on the lunatic frings of the pro-life movement. CWA is a respected conservative women's organization, but it is only "major" in the sense that its membership is larger than that of the National Organization for Women. Like NOW it is an advocacy group, not a religious ministry organization.
The Hinderaker phrase with which Amanda feebly tries to take issue is "religious leaders" - which in this case means conservative evangelical religious leaders. Amanda apparently does not realize that the leaders who are most respected by evangelical conservatives today are those who lead active and respected Christian ministries. The list of such leaders would likely include James Dobson, Chuck Colson, Jerry Falwell and Billy Graham (plus son Franklin and daughter Ann). None of these people has objected to the Miers nomination. Dobson, Colson and Falwell have publicly stated their support for the nomination.
Apart from the obvious fact that none of the organizations cited by Amanda are "religious leaders," a visit to their websites reveals a mixed bag of their opinions about the Miers nomination:
LIBERTY COUNSEL does not support the Miers nomination and has called on President Bush to withdraw it. This group's website identifies it as "a nationwide public interest litigation, education and policy organization that specializes in constitutional law." The group appears to have close ties to Jerry Falwell, whose endorsement appears on its website, and who has publicly stated that he supports the Miers nomination.
Result? A tie at best. Wishing that someone else had been nominated is not the same as urging senators to vote "No." Liberty Counsel has yet to urge a "No" vote on Harriet Miers, and Falwell's endorsement of her suggests that it probably will not do so.
CONCERNED WOMEN FOR AMERICA, according to its own press release, has "guarded optimism" in response to the Miers nomination. CWA Chief Counsel Jan LaRue has said, "We give Harriet Miers the benefit of the doubt because thus far, President Bush has selected nominees to the federal courts who are committed to the written Constitution. Whether we can support her will depend on what we learn from her record and the hearing process."
CWA also has released a memorandum explaining its evaluation of information about Harriet Miers. The memo explains why CWA is unable to endorse the nomination at this time. Ms. LaRue is quoted as saying, "Whether we can eventually support her will depend on answers to questions raised in our memorandum and what is learned during the hearing process. We believe the American people deserve convincing evidence that Miss Miers can be trusted with a lifetime appointment to the Supreme Court."
Result? Clear advantage to Hinderaker. CWA is taking a deliberate wait-and-see attitude until the nominee testifies. As should we all.
OPERATION RESCUE is best known for its confrontational abortion clinic demonstrations. It website states that "Operation Rescue will not support Miers nomination unless more information is released assuring conservatives that she will be a strong constitutional constructionist in the mold of Thomas and Scalia, as was promised by Bush during the 2004 election."
Result? Again, clear advantage to Hinderaker. No "major religious conservative group objections" here. Despite its reputation for zealotry, Operation Rescue, like CWA, is also taking a wait-and-see stance.
Amanda would do well to start getting her facts straight. The fact is that, while some conservatives are disappointed in the Miers nomination, not a single GOP senator has given any indication that he or she will vote against Miers when the time comes. That was just one of the points Hinderaker made in his excellent critique of Fineman's ridiculous column. As it turns out, Hinderaker was right.
October 14th, 2005 at 5:59 pmWell, Assrocket responded - the above "groups" don't constitute religious "leaders".
I guess he's got a point.
The same point another guy had when he said "it all depends on what the meaning of 'is' is." I thought they hated that kind of semantic stuff. Oh well.
But you know when they fall back on parsing their words and attacking the left as shrill no-nothings they've got nowhere left to turn.
October 14th, 2005 at 6:32 pm"CWA is a respected conservative women’s organization, but it is only “major†in the sense that its membership is larger than that of the National Organization for Women. Like NOW it is an advocacy group, not a religious ministry organization."
Bahaha, bullshit! They are NOTHING alike! CWA describes itself as 'built on prayer'. That is not only NOT SECULAR, but clearly and blantantly anti-abortion and we BOTH know it. You're such a lying sack of deceptive shit BSR. But then again you post crap from a 'satire' website like it's real news - so clearly your ability to distinguish reality is compromised!
"CWA is built on prayer and action.
We are the nation's largest public policy women's organization with a rich 25-year history of helping our members across the country bring Biblical principles into all levels of public policy."
This is from the CWA website in the ABOUT US section. How is this NOT a religious orgainization again? You're an idiot!
October 14th, 2005 at 8:15 pmAnd any dipshit knows CWA really stands for CHRISTIAN WOMAN'S ASSOCIATION - they just use the 'concerned' like bush used 'compassionate' to lie to people not paying attention! Please! BSR might be this stupid (well clearly he/she is), but we're not!
October 14th, 2005 at 8:17 pmThe CWA is part of the spawn of the John Birch Society (KKK Kalifornia style), and is as right wing, religious, and irrationally insane as they come!
Concerned Women for America (CWA) was founded in San Diego in 1979 by Christian Right social conservative Beverly LaHaye. Well connected to the Christian Right network, Beverly LaHaye is married to Tim LaHaye, cofounder of the Moral Majority. According to LaHaye, who continues to serve as CWA's “chairman,†she founded the antifeminist organization after hearing Betty Friedan, founder of the National Organization for Women, claim that she was speaking for all American women in her criticism of patriarchy and male chauvinism. LaHaye viewed Friedan's feminist stance as anti-God and anti-family.
CWA's mission is “to protect and promote Biblical values among all citizens—first through prayer, then education, and finally by influencing our society—thereby reversing the decline in moral values in our nation.†According to its vision statement, CWA aims “for women and like-minded men, from all walks of life, to come together and restore the family to its traditional purpose and thereby allow each member of the family to realize their God-given potential and be more responsible citizens.
CWA opposes gay rights, sex education, drug and alcohol education, and feminism, while advocating what it calls “pro-life†and “pro-family†values. It advocates a return to traditional family structures and regards homosexuality as a sinful condition that can be overcome by believing in Jesus Christ.
CWA is a member of a Christian Right coalition—including American Values, American Family Association, Focus on the Family, and Southern Baptist Convention, formed in 2004 to support a constitutional amendment banning gay marriages.
In a 1987 interview with Ms magazine, LaHaye stated: “Yes, religion and politics do mix. America is a nation based on biblical principles. Christian values dominate our government. The test of those values is the Bible. Politicians who do not use the bible to guide their public and private lives do not belong in office.
October 14th, 2005 at 8:20 pmDid BSR spam that crapple here too? Pathetic. JBS. Wingnuts who were convinced Eisenhower was a commie. Can't we please just send these clowns to Mars?
October 14th, 2005 at 11:41 pmWhen I saw 54 comments, I thought this might be difficult.
I have little objection to swearing, but are the blog supporters here capable of something in addition to that? On other topics does this group get above the level of Har! Har! They're Stoopid? Several "trolls" have calmly made the point that the organizations mentioned are not what Amanda claimed them to be. The inclusion of Liberty Council and Operation Rescue has been dealt with so easily above that I'll not even bother to repeat.
Ryan does make a fair point -- or at least the beginning of one -- about CWA. Were it in a list of clearer qualifiers, I might give its inclusion a pass. But as the pillar of the claim, it is lacking. The premise that mentioning prayer disqualifies an organization from being more secular than religious would have to then accept that scouting organizations, the US Congress, service organizations, the UN, and Live 8 are more religious than secular. I'm not sure you'd like to tie yourself to that reasoning.
CWA falls squarely into the category of American civil religion that applied to nearly everyone around 1958 -- a rather vague deism. Within that organization I think there are many specific Christians, but my reading of their website suggests a stronger cultural than doctrinal tie with Christianity. I would certainly grant that they are not a secular organization. That does not make them a powerhouse of influence on the Religious Right by default, or even a very clearly religious one at all.
The other crap about the John Birch Society and spelling things with K's -- it's not 1970 anymore. Have a new thought once in awhile.
October 15th, 2005 at 12:19 am"CWA falls squarely into the category of American civil religion that applied to nearly everyone around 1958 — a rather vague deism."
Actually 'deism' doesn't believe in " protect and promote Biblical values among all citizens", your understanding of what deism is, is frankly nonsense.
"Within that organization I think there are many specific Christians, but my reading of their website suggests a stronger cultural than doctrinal tie with Christianity."
Bullshit, 'promoting the bible', is not a deist or secular act - it's clearly a christian religious organization. Your claim is entirely bogus and irrational based on their own words that I posted.
"would certainly grant that they are not a secular organization. That does not make them a powerhouse of influence on the Religious Right by default, or even a very clearly religious one at all."
Did you even read the profile on them? They're a MEMBER OF THE RELIGIOUS RIGHT COALITION. Or didn't you know that.
From the profile of the group...
"CWA is a member of a Christian Right coalition—including American Values, American Family Association, Focus on the Family, and Southern Baptist Convention"
Clearly you either don't know what a 'religious' organization is, or you're a deceptive apologist. Either way, you're WAY wrong across the board.
October 15th, 2005 at 12:26 amDeist is defined in Webster's dictionary as:
"One who believes in the existence of a God or supreme being but denies revealed religion, basing his belief on the light of nature and reason."
The 'bible' is clearly a 'christian' and therefore 'revealed' religion. Anyone who's promoting it's values are in fact 'religious' and not 'deist'.
And I forgot to respond on the KKK Kalifornia birch society. You want me to move on, but these idiots haven't. They've repackaged their white supremacist and fascist doctrine for a new generation, but it's the same old hooded and bigoted ignorant asses. You're either with'em or again'em - which are you?
October 15th, 2005 at 12:30 amAVI,
Your KKK brothers have a new show, you should watch it to catch the latest news on what you should believe...
http://www.wnem.com/Global/story.asp?S=3980511
October 15th, 2005 at 12:40 amPublishing someone's private (work) e-mail when he/she provides an easy contact e-mail address on the blog is immature and disrespectful, regardless of how much you disagree with someone. And how convenient that your Privacy Policy (lower right, folks, try it out) is a dead link.
Mr. Hindraker himself provides his phone number on his profile page linked from the home page. Darth Filibustrous obviously copied and pasted it; easy to tell by the same formatting error (missing space).
In addition, it is not "parsing words" to point out that Mr. Hinderaker clearly wrote: "...religious leader" but you gave examples of "organizations," not persons, and certainly not even ones most people would identify with religious leadership in the way Mr. Hinderaker obviously meant.
Perhaps folks on the left consider advocacy groups and lobbyists to be on par with leaders? Not so on the right. I've read both sides here, and I have to say Hinderaker prevails, at least on this issue.
October 15th, 2005 at 2:29 amI am not a Republican.
I did not write 'feel,' you did. And yes, it is my opinion, no sh*t. Isn't that what the comment section is for?
And, talk about parsing.... CWA is not a religious leader! It's an advocacy group of people with a common religious opinion. Can you not see the difference??
October 15th, 2005 at 3:03 amOK, Ryan, you're dwelling on the CWA, so for the sake of argument, let's assume you're right, and the CWA is a religious leader of the type that John Hinderaker meant when he wrote: "I am not aware of a single religious leader who has in any way objected to the Miers nomination or called it an “affront†to religious people."
Please check out the CWA's website and its most recent statement on the Miers nomination (Oct. 10). You will find that they have not "objected" to the nomination. Based on what they know right now, they are withholding an endorsement but are "open to persuasion."
Can we be done with this now?
October 15th, 2005 at 3:56 amThose groups are the religious groups you site? I don't know anyone who's ever heard ot them.I can see why you dolts can't win elections,you can't even debate a subject without looking foolish.
October 15th, 2005 at 10:40 amEveryone needs to read "Black-Ops Weather/Bio Wars in the USA" over at http://nascarblue.blogspot.com
October 15th, 2005 at 11:31 am"Everyone needs to read “Black-Ops Weather/Bio Wars in the USAâ€...
I agree, everyone should read it to get a clear understanding of what crackpots live on the far left, a long distance politically separated from the crackpots on the far right, but crackpots nonetheless.
October 15th, 2005 at 12:02 pm"“Everyone needs to read “Black-Ops Weather/Bio Wars in the USAâ€â€¦
I agree, everyone should read it to get a clear understanding of what crackpots live on the far left, a long distance politically separated from the crackpots on the far right, but crackpots nonetheless.
Comment by Rotgut "
And the difference is that the crackpots on the left have NO VOICE in america, whereas the crackpots on the right run the 3 branches of the government! The crackpots on the left are the american communist party, and there are more people who went to the reichwing war protest that actually belong to that group!
The issue is that reichwingers talk about moderate progressives like they're crackpots, when in fact modern day 'liberals' are to the right of Eisenhower! You guys have drunk the koolaid so much you can no longer see reality!
October 15th, 2005 at 5:36 pm"OK, Ryan, you’re dwelling on the CWA, so for the sake of argument, let’s assume you’re right, and the CWA is a religious leader of the type that John Hinderaker meant when he wrote: “I am not aware of a single religious leader who has in any way objected to the Miers nomination or called it an “affront†to religious people.â€
Please check out the CWA’s website and its most recent statement on the Miers nomination (Oct. 10). You will find that they have not “objected†to the nomination. Based on what they know right now, they are withholding an endorsement but are “open to persuasion.â€
Can we be done with this now? "
No we can't Tigrusmus says it best!
“The problem for them is that Fineman didn’t specify leaders, Hinderaker did, and thereby both moved the goalposts and laid a beating on a sadsack strawman of his own making.
October 15th, 2005 at 5:38 pmComment by tigrismusâ€
Although it doesn't seem to make much difference to liberals, someone's sexual orientation is very important to the religious, up-tight, sanctimonious, Bible-thumping, Republican wackos. Do you think we should tell them that David Drier (who was nearly their temporary House Majority Leader) is gay? And their party Chairman, Ken Mehlman, refuses to answer questions and suspicions about his own sexual preferences? Can't we rattle their cages a bit? Shake their trees?
October 15th, 2005 at 7:12 pmWhat do you think they would do if it were Democrats who had such hangups? Wouldn't they turn it on us?
I think we should stop being Mr. Nice Guy, and fight fire with fire.
Marie,
I agree, that's why I remind these hypocrits of it all the time. It's so funny for instance that MrWrong is so homophobic, yet expresses undying love for the GOP - a party RUN by a gay man! How ironic is that piece of pyschosis! That level of cognitive dissonance is definitely the sign of a schizophrenic break. But then again most of the followers of assrocket exhibit those delusions.
October 15th, 2005 at 8:19 pmHindrocket is probably telling the truth when he says he's unaware about ________. That sorry mutha is pretty damned oblivious if you ask me. He don't know shit.
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November 20th, 2005 at 1:56 pm