Rice Suggests Iraq War Resolution Could Allow For War Against Syria
Rice Suggests Iraq War Resolution Could Allow For War Against Syria
Yesterday, in her appearance before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Sen. Lincoln Chafee wanted to clarify a simple issue – did the Iraq war resolution passed by Congress restrict military action only to Iraq? Chafee asked, “So would you agree that if anything were to occur on Syrian or Iranian soil, you would have to return to Congress to get that authorization?†Rice responded:
RICE: Senator, I don’t want to try and circumscribe presidential war powers. And I think you’ll understand fully that the president retains those powers in the war on terrorism and in the war on Iraq. …
CHAFEE: So that’s a no.
RICE: Senator, I am not going to be in the position of circumscribing the president’s powers.
The first line of the Iraq war resolution signed by the President on October 16, 2002 clearly states its purpose: To authorize the use of United States Armed Forces against Iraq.
So how could the administration possibly justify any military action against Syria without getting another congressional resolution? Tie it to Iraq, of course. Rice, in a response to a question about Syria from Sen. Chris Dodd (D-CT), said yesterday:
Senator, our policy toward Syria is on the table. And that is, we want a change in Syrian behavior. We want a change in Syrian behavior on the Iraqi border…
But before Rice gets too far down the track of equating the conflict in Iraq with Syria, perhaps she should recall this previous statement in June 2005:
[E]very situation is different. Syria is not Iraq, and Iraq is not Syria. And I need to emphasize that Iraq was, in many ways, a very special circumstance given all of the problems with Iraq… So Iraq is not Syria, and Syria is not Iraq.
Why is Rice so intent on keeping her options open on Syria? Perhaps because a “shadow struggle” is already under way.
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She’s out of touch. There’s a nice word abut her on Americablog.
October 20th, 2005 at 11:41 amSyria is not the one to watch, what is going on over here is: http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/101905Y.shtml
October 20th, 2005 at 11:43 amOff topic, but inportant:
http://online.wsj.com/ public/ article/ SB112973460667273222-7Jjp4Ckx_LsV4qI5rjzrENNIcAQ_20061020.html?mod=blogs
October 20th, 2005 at 11:44 amThere is something seriously wrong with that woman. She scares the sh*t out of me.
October 20th, 2005 at 11:47 amI think Rice is incompetent and was negligent in her counter-terrorism duties before 9/11, but she might be referring to the sweeping post-9/11 resolution (107th Congress, S.J. Res 23, 9/14/01) that includes this phrase: “That the President is authorized to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations or persons.” There are limitations to “necessary and appropriate” is related to the War Powers Act, but for members of the Bush cult of personality in the Executive Branch, all power flows to the President (well, this President, anyway. Not a Democratic President.).
October 20th, 2005 at 11:51 amYou people need to go and read this pronto === http://www.alternet.org/ blogs/ th…s/ themix/ 27082/
October 20th, 2005 at 11:52 amThe probability of any involvement the bushies may start with Syria and/or Iran will be in direct proportion to the severity of the indictments and the indictees resulting from the Fitz investigation. The ploy is so obvious that anyone not suffering from a rectal/cranial insertion can see it coming. Condom Rice is the sacrificial lamb they threw out to test the water. The best way to prevent such a disastrous action by the bushco is to hope Fitz goes all the way to the top and Congress is forced to start impeachment before DUHbya and Rummy can pull the trigger.
October 20th, 2005 at 11:53 amit may not matter what the Iraq War resolution says… Bush & Co. have always made up the rules as they’ve gone along… my question is, who would fight a war with Syria? troop shortages, you know…
October 20th, 2005 at 11:56 amShe spinning folks,oh..we better back the pres.to protect us????? bush calls his ‘problems’ ‘background noise’. Well you better get ear plugs,because we’re just beginning to make a LOT of noise.
October 20th, 2005 at 12:06 pmI guess Rice believes that Bush has a mission. Bush states that “part of my job is to work with others to fashion a world that will be peaceful for future generations.” Since neither Bush or Rice belief that Bush does not have to, and will not, work with other nations or even Democrats, nor with Congress, then the real question is just who the hell he is working with?
Bush Calls Recent Woes ‘Background Noise’ from Yahoo News
http://news.yahoo.com/ s/ ap/ 20051020/ ap_on_go_pr_wh/ bush_5&printer=1
Asked how he is dealing with such a full plate, Bush said: “There is some background noise here, a lot of chatter, a lot of speculation and opining, but the American people expect me to do my job and I’m going to.”
He also said, “part of my job is to work with others to fashion a world that will be peaceful for future generations. I’ve got a job to do to make sure the economy continues to grow. I’ve got a job to make sure there is a plausible reconstruction plan for cities affected by Katrina.”
October 20th, 2005 at 12:07 pmI watch the Condolezza Rice show yesterday on CSPAN. Just about every Senator was hammering Condi. Including the Republicans. It was funny to hear her repeat the same talkig points over and over. You could see the Senators getting pissed.
The funniest part was when Senator Sarbane said that it was terrible that Condi should go for almost a year (Feb-Oct) between meetings with the Senate Foriegn Relations Comittee. He said “If you have time to go on Meet the Press and Meet the Nation, you surely have time to meet with Congress.”
October 20th, 2005 at 12:09 pmDoes anyone else find it interesting that in Dr Rice’s response, she seemed to differentiate between “the war on terrorism” and the “war on Iraq”? The president has spent the last two-and-a-half years trying to convince the American people that they are one and the same thing. Yet she makes a clear distinction.
October 20th, 2005 at 12:11 pmWE HAVE ALREADY INVADED SYRIA….IT’S BEING REPORTED IN THE CANADIAN PAPERS TODAY.
http://www.toledoblade.com/ apps/ pbcs.dll/ article?AID=/ 20051019/ OPINION04/ 510190380/ -1/ OPINION
October 20th, 2005 at 12:14 pmMarblex, last time I looked, Toledo was in Ohio, not Ontario. But still good link and the Blade is one of the best US papers left.
October 20th, 2005 at 12:21 pm#6, PC - i’m unable to get this link… it says “page not found”…help!
“You people need to go and read this pronto === http://www.alternet.org/ blogs/ th…s/ themix/ 27082/”
October 20th, 2005 at 12:25 pm#12. I’d take that to mean that she and any accomplices are no longer even trying to hide behind W.
October 20th, 2005 at 12:28 pmGood deal. It’s about time we started killing some Syrians and Iranians. They’ve got oil too don’t they? Praise Allah.
October 20th, 2005 at 12:36 pmI think the Fraudian understatement of the year was Condi’s quote in the earlier post: “I don’t think the president ever takes any of his options off the table concerning anything to do with military force.”
What a weak excuse for enabling such a small minded commander in chief.
October 20th, 2005 at 12:46 pmRice is (correctly) counting on the fact that 99% of America will not remember that the Bush administration sent two bills to Congress asking for authorization for the use of force.
“If you want to keep the peace, you’ve got to have the authorization to use force,” Bush told reporters.
The first bill, sent Sept. 19, 2002, never even made it to the floor for a vote because, among other reasons, it was way too broad in scope.
If Congress wanted Bush to have the authority to plow through any country he wanted, they would have voted for the first bill.
By the way, let’s not forget what Rice said on Sept. 26, the day the second draft was sent to Congress. She linked the Iraqi government to Al-Qaida’s chemical weapons programs and also implied that a picture of Iraq’s complicity in the 9/11 attacks was coming into focus:
“No one is trying to make an argument at this point that Saddam Hussein somehow had operational control of what happened on Sept. 11, so we don’t want to push this too far, but this is a story that is unfolding, and it is getting clearer, and we’re learning more.
October 20th, 2005 at 12:50 pmIRI, you right-wingers really love killing, don’t you? You love war ’cause you get to kill lots of people, and you love the death penalty. I don’t understand how you reconcile these with being “pro-life”. Can you explain?
October 20th, 2005 at 12:51 pmTroll on, I-Right-I. What, did you get shut out of the Teen Bedwetters chatboard?
You’ve already enlisted, right?
October 20th, 2005 at 12:54 pmMissWrongLogCabin is so off kilter, it often comes off as spam making fun of republicans - I wonder if she can see that? Probably not. Psychosis is strange thing…
The main reason we’re after Syria and Iran is to ‘protect israel’ as it were. Israel fears both nations as the source of weapons and know how for the palestinians. Frankly, they might be right, but they also supplied intelligence on the Iraqi WMD programs that were 100% wrong. Hardline (rightwing) Israelis have a lot of hubris, and are often wrong because of it! Kind of some other inept morons we know in this country!
October 20th, 2005 at 12:55 pmIRI’s a coward- just a wee man.
October 20th, 2005 at 12:55 pmYou scooped me, jparker. Right between the I’s is hate filled and sick.
October 20th, 2005 at 12:56 pmHey Jane, I understand the dilemma. However, the fact that Saddam was killing between 75 and 125 innocent people everyday for 22 years is an atrocity. That’s close to a million people. These numbers are according to Human Rights Watch. Amnesty International estimates similar numbers. Are their lives less valuable than ours? Despite the inability of people to connect the dots as it pertaains to 9-11 don’t you think that removing people like Saddam is a worthy cause if it is within our capacity to do so? Would you prefer that the world just standby and do nothing?
October 20th, 2005 at 12:57 pmHey Ben,
So did the Bush administration remove Saddam for humanitarian reasons? To stop the killing of innocents?
What keeps us from intervening in Darfur and the other war-torn regions of Africa? There MUST be a good reason for this.
Why do we allow the Saudi government to continue killing and torturing as policy?
It’s not adding up. Help me understand.
October 20th, 2005 at 1:02 pmBen- If that was the real reason, why not simply say it three years ago? Have you considered that a war to remove a dictator would be planned/exectuted in a different fashion than this one has been? The evidence that removing Saddam was a side-effect, not the goal, of this war is in the way it has been fought.
October 20th, 2005 at 1:02 pmIts pretty funny how horrible this administration is. Its funny how they are now becoming hated all around.
R2000
Bathroom Review
October 20th, 2005 at 1:02 pmI think she’s saying that just to pressure
October 20th, 2005 at 1:02 pmSyria. Considering the lack of manpower, there’s no way we could invade Syria - without a draft! I highly doubt Bush can sell us on it this time.
Syria produces less than 1/2 million barrels a day, and their oil fields are declining fast. It also only exports 300,000 barrels a day. They aren’t a valuable oil resource - but they scare the hell of Israel, and lebanon for that matter.
Iran has sizable Oil reserves, and currently pump just under 4 million barrels a day - 14% of Opec output. Disruption of that oil supply would in fact SEVERELY impact current gas and oil prices however, which is the REAL reason Texas oil would like that to happen.
What the schmucks in the red states driving their SUVs don’t realize is that there’s a good chance that bush in fact wants Iraqi Oil unstable, and Iranian Oil and even Saudi Oil being unstable all produce BILLIONS for his friends in Texas. The Texas Oil interests could care less about the economic impacts beyond their personal wallets.
If we assume that the war planners are as inept as the Katrina effort, it’s possible they’re continue to bungle this out of ineptitude. If we take the words of the Trolls that bushAndCo is smart, then they obviously want the oil prices high. Because if they really cared about those prices, they’d put enough troops in Iraq to secure the country and increase its oil production to encompass that of Iran’s production BEFORE invading. It’s called planning. So either they planned with 100% ineptitude, or they planned to simply undermine oil to walk away with fat profits. Considering they just gave Oil companies a free pass tax wise with BILLIONS of giveaways, I’d bet the price of oil hits 100USD by summer. No wonder GMs sales dropped BY HALF recently!
October 20th, 2005 at 1:04 pmIRI, you right-wingers really love killing, don’t you? You love war ’cause you get to kill lots of people, and you love the death penalty. I don’t understand how you reconcile these with being “pro-lifeâ€. Can you explain?
Comment by Jane E. Schneider
I’ll try Jane. You don’t mind killing babies and old people. We don’t mind killing people who deserve to be killed. It’s self defense vs. killing the defenseless. Get it?
October 20th, 2005 at 1:04 pmBen,
Recent statistic. More civilians die daily in Iraq now, than they did under Saddam. And when we add the 100k who died during the invasion, we did as much or more damage than saddam had in the entire last decade. Nice try, but if you really cared about the citizens - your fuhrer totally mucked it up!
And weren’t we going to Iraq to stop the torture chambers? How funny republicans forget their own words!
October 20th, 2005 at 1:06 pm“Are their lives less valuable than ours? Despite the inability of people to connect the dots as it pertaains to 9-11 don’t you think that removing people like Saddam is a worthy cause if it is within our capacity to do so? Would you prefer that the world just standby and do nothing?”
If you believed that, why didn’t we go into Darfur? Do you remember Kosovo? Democrats have no problems with peace keeping - this wasn’t peace keeping. By middle eastern standards, Saddam was NOT worse than the average dictator. You’ve been sucking on the tit of faux news for too long!
October 20th, 2005 at 1:09 pm“I’ll try Jane. You don’t mind killing babies and old people. We don’t mind killing people who deserve to be killed. It’s self defense vs. killing the defenseless. Get it?
Comment by I-RIGHT-I”
So what you’re saying is that you only prefer to kill adults who are innocent? As for killing ‘old people’, aren’t you referring to what Tom Delay did to his father? Clearly you didn’t mean to attack your own political party, but that bad aim of yours hit again.
As for the ‘killing babies’, well if it were true, that would be one thing, but it’s not. See you’re living in a fantasy of mythology - a kind of dungeons and dragons of the 1st-4th century AD. What you BELIEVE as reality also believes the world is flat and the earth rotates around the sun. So in your FANTASY this is true, but in the REAL world it isn’t… Get a clue witless moron!
October 20th, 2005 at 1:11 pmEveything’s okay folks. No need to worry. I-Right-I knows who needs to die. Whew!
October 20th, 2005 at 1:11 pmFactor by which an Iraqi is more likely to die today than in the last year of the Hussein regime : 2.5 [Les Roberts, Johns Hopkins University (Baltimore) ]
Factor by which the cause of death is more likely to be violence : 58
Percentage of the 651 fatal or wounding terrorist attacks worldwide last year that took place in Iraq: 32[National Counterterrorism Center (Washington)]
Percentage that took place in India: 44
Monthly cost of the U.S. occupation of Iraq: $4,100,000,000[U.S. Department of Defense]
Revenue from Iraqi oil sales that the CPA could not account for, according to a 2005 audit: $8,800,000,000
Estimated number of U.S. intelligence reports on Iraq that were based on a single defector: 100[Commission on the Intelligence Capabilities of the U.S. Regarding Weapons of Mass Destruction (Washington)]
Number of times the defector had ever been interviewed by U.S. intelligence agents: 0
Ratio of the number of U.S. troops in Iraq to the number of Iraqi resisters, as estimated by Iraq’s new director of intelligence: 3:4
Percentage “more intelligence” given up by prisoners in Iraq since coercion of them was banned, according to a U.S. general : 25 [Newsweek, 9/27/03 ]
October 20th, 2005 at 1:16 pmThey aren’t pro life they are anti (woman) choice. Look, we all know that if it were men having children there would be no issue at all. They could give a rat’s ass who dies, they are just so arrogant that they think they are the ones who should decide. Fetus should live, brown people should die. They absolutely HATE the fact that women have some kind of power of them, i.e. birthing.
If they were real Christians, they would try see things through HIS eyes. That is what they preach in church - the devil will come in the cloth of sheep. Fake Christians are so ugly. They are now being shown for the evil they do.
BTW, declaring war on people that didn’t hurt us is NOT SELF DEFENSE. You were duped and fooled and used like toys, and are too ashamed or arrogant to admit it. This last ditch effort of the trolls to try desperately to cling to some idea is just pathetic. Fun to watch, but pathetic all the same.
Indictments anyone? I’m up for a round of indictments today. Fitzgerald holds our entire idea of democracy in his hands. This is history, people!!
October 20th, 2005 at 1:22 pmNo, Ben, your argument doesn’t hold water or we (America) would be fighting in about 20 or 30 different countries right now. There have been, and still are, other human-rights violators all over the world.
IRI, who mentioned old people? And how many people on death row have been proven to actually be innocent of the crime for which they were to be executed?
October 20th, 2005 at 1:25 pmRyan, I COMPLETELY forgot that Delay did that to daddy. Shaivo my ass. She was just used as a political stunt. Neocons will eat up any amount of feces served to them and them say yummy, more. I hate trolls for that reason. They will believe anything. They are easily fooled and equally mean and bigoted.
ALSO he had a major law suit on behalf of daddy, suing FOR MILLIONS the company he claimed was responsible for his daddy’s condition. TORT REFORM MY ASS. Delay is the worst kind of hypocrite. And, again, apparently neocons can’t read or, worse, just don’t care.
October 20th, 2005 at 1:31 pm#38: At least 118 since 1972 (http://www.ncadp.org/fact_sheet4.html)
October 20th, 2005 at 1:34 pmDoes that bother any of you trolls? I really need to know what you think about innocent people being killed by our government.
Please.
October 20th, 2005 at 1:38 pmThanks for the stat, JimB. Also, Ben, getting back to regime change in Iraq, didn’t Bush specifically state during his first presidential campaign that our military should not be used for nation-building? Of course, he said a lot of things that were total lies.
October 20th, 2005 at 1:47 pm#31
You still haven’t convincingly reconciled being “pro-life” with being in favor of using the death penalty. Either every life is precious or it isn’t.
And besides, aren’t decisions about life and death and who sholuld live and who should die supposed to be left to God? That’s what I was taught.
Are you suggesting that we mere humans know better than God who “deserves” to live and who doesn’t? And who appointed American republicans to speak on God’s behalf?
I’m sorry if it bothers you, but it’s just plain hypocrisy to be in favor of capital punishment but against abortion. As Stan Smith (conservative father on “American Dad”) said, “That’s the ONE way we don’t like to kill people.” He sure nailed it (for a fictional character.)
October 20th, 2005 at 1:51 pmBack to Syria… what’s going on here is that the Bushniks are learning the lessons of VietNam. Unfortunately, they’ve learned the WRONG lessons — what they’ve learned is that when things go into the crapper in a country you’ve invaded under false pretenses, then you should covertly invade the neigboring country too, to spread the joy…Tricky Dickie did it in VietNam and Cambodia/Laos; Georgie Porgie is now doing it in Iraq and Syria/Iran.
Of course, the outcomes will also be the same — more American soldiers killed or maimed, for no reason other than the fascist arrogance of the white house apparatchik…
October 20th, 2005 at 1:56 pmAs for the ‘killing babies’, well if it were true, that would be one thing, but it’s not. See you’re living in a fantasy of mythology
Comment by Ryan “It ain’t no baby ’til it cries” Neat
In my opinion anyone who can’t make the jump from unborn baby to rug rat is insane. That would be your mythology and it is pure evil.
October 20th, 2005 at 1:58 pm“In my opinion anyone who can’t make the jump from unborn baby to rug rat is insane. That would be your mythology and it is pure evil.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I ”
And the fact you can’t even make a coherent sentence out of this shows not only that you’re an idiot, but that you’re grasping for an argument.
You are making your argument based on irrational religious arguments that frankly are nonsense. You’re entitled to those - but science and rational thought disagrees with you.
So your enforcement of your religious mythology on others in the face of scientific evidence that refutes and destroys your premise is EVIL - just like you!
October 20th, 2005 at 2:02 pmI-RIGHT-I,
I quote post #31: “We [the ‘right’] don’t mind killing people who deserve to be killed.”
What qualifications do you have to mark people as those “people who deserve to be killed?” You are the judge and jury? And I suppose then that you see the U.S. Military as your executioner?
Do you understand the weight of the statement you are making? What have they done to deserve to be killed?
“States are not moral agents.” -Chomsky
October 20th, 2005 at 2:04 pmMrWrong,
You’re an idiot. Go back to your Opus Dei meeting and tell them you’ve failed. You don’t even have a argument for WHY a fetus is a baby - you just ‘believe it’. Didn’t they train you better? You’re a hack at being a hack - how sad! Just stop rehashing the arguments I’ve already successfully debunked, it just makes you look pathetic!
Anyway, back to the relevant thread. We’ve been SO successful at destroying Iraq and making it a WORSE place for the citizens we supposedly liberated - Syria is next!
Factor by which an Iraqi is more likely to die today than in the last year of the Hussein regime : 2.5 [Les Roberts, Johns Hopkins University (Baltimore) ]
Factor by which the cause of death is more likely to be violence : 58
Percentage of the 651 fatal or wounding terrorist attacks worldwide last year that took place in Iraq: 32[National Counterterrorism Center (Washington)]
Percentage that took place in India: 44
Monthly cost of the U.S. occupation of Iraq: $4,100,000,000[U.S. Department of Defense]
Revenue from Iraqi oil sales that the CPA could not account for, according to a 2005 audit: $8,800,000,000
Estimated number of U.S. intelligence reports on Iraq that were based on a single defector: 100[Commission on the Intelligence Capabilities of the U.S. Regarding Weapons of Mass Destruction (Washington)]
Number of times the defector had ever been interviewed by U.S. intelligence agents: 0
Ratio of the number of U.S. troops in Iraq to the number of Iraqi resisters, as estimated by Iraq’s new director of intelligence: 3:4
Percentage “more intelligence†given up by prisoners in Iraq since coercion of them was banned, according to a U.S. general : 25 [Newsweek, 9/27/03 ]
October 20th, 2005 at 2:04 pmJane,
Here are some great quotes from the republicans just a few years ago. My have their opinions 100% shifted. I’ve got LOTS more if anyone wants them printed. These guys are the ULTIMATE hypocrites!
“It is a remarkable spectacle to see the Clinton Administration and NATO taking over from the Soviet Union the role of sponsoring “wars of national liberation.”
-Representative Helen Chenoweth (R-ID)
“This has been an unmitigated disaster … Ask the Chinese embassy. Ask all the people in Belgrade that we’ve killed. Ask the refugees that we’ve killed. Ask the people in nursing homes. Ask the people in hospitals.”
-Representative Joe Scarborough (R-FL)
“Clinton’s bombing campaign has caused all of these problems to explode”
-Representative Tom Delay (R-TX)
Bombing a sovereign nation for ill-defined reasons with vague objectives undermines the American stature in the world. The international respect and trust for America has diminished every time we casually let the bombs fly.”
-Representative Tom Delay (R-TX)
October 20th, 2005 at 2:07 pmThis just in from Captain Obvious: if the United States can’t seal it’s own border with Mexico, why can anyone reasonably expect the Syrians to seal their border with Iraq?
October 20th, 2005 at 2:09 pmThis just in from Captain Obvious: if the United States can’t seal it’s own border with Mexico, why can anyone reasonably expect the Syrians to seal their border with Iraq?
Comment by Captain Obvious
What makes you think either one of us “can’t”? What makes you think either one of us wants to?
October 20th, 2005 at 2:16 pmWhat qualifications do you have to mark people as those “people who deserve to be killed?†You are the judge and jury? And I suppose then that you see the U.S. Military as your executioner?
Do you understand the weight of the statement you are making? What have they done to deserve to be killed?
“States are not moral agents.†-Chomsky
Comment by Elvis
I can read what they write, hear what they say and see what they do. They say they want us all dead. That’s good enough for me. I’m sure you’ll need more proof. Pardon me if I don’t want them to kill me to prove my point.
October 20th, 2005 at 2:19 pmIRI, we’ll be happy to sacrifice you if it’ll prove your point.
October 20th, 2005 at 2:29 pmIf this is true and we attacked Syria and the Brits did the same with Iran, then I think it was done as a distraction to move everyone’s attention from the Delay/Frist corruption and the wrap-up of the Fitzgerald grand jury. Keep your eye on the ball everyone.
October 20th, 2005 at 2:39 pmI-RIGHT-I,
I beg to differ. You are reading what others are telling or showing you they are writing. Seeing what others are showing you. Hearing what others are telling you they said.
You are not hearing what they are saying as individuals. You are not reading what the individual is writing. You are not seeing what the individual is doing. You do not know the background of those individuals. You may not know that their family was blown to pieces by an “arrant bomb” dropped by Americans. You may not know how many of the people what you are hearing, seeing and reading truly believe in those “bad†things, maybe its only 1%, maybe only 10%. You don’t know.
Yet you are not ready to try the individual. You are not ready to hear about from where they come.
You are simply ready to kill them all, because someone else told you they are “bad” and “hate us because of our freedom.”
Maybe the only freedom of ours that they hate is our freedom to drop bombs on whomever we want at will. But you wouldn’t know that, because you are not truly listening to them.
October 20th, 2005 at 2:43 pmI-RIGHT-I,
I beg to differ. You are reading what others are telling or showing you they are writing. Seeing what others are showing you. Hearing what others are telling you they said.
Comment by Elvis
What they said.
http://www.memri.org/
October 20th, 2005 at 2:50 pmAll talk sounds like a lot bull. I will defend to your death my right to my opion. Suck on this you creeps.
October 20th, 2005 at 2:54 pmYou are not hearing what they are saying as individuals. You are not reading what the individual is writing. You are not seeing what the individual is doing. You do not know the background of those individuals. You may not know that their family was blown to pieces by an “arrant bomb†dropped by Americans. You may not know how many of the people what you are hearing, seeing and reading truly believe in those “bad†things, maybe its only 1%, maybe only 10%. You don’t know.
Comment by Elvis
I don’t care to humanize the enemy. War is war and there’s no place for sympathy or sloppy sentimentality. I know they are not all bad, especially the Iranians but unfortunately their leaders are all bad and want to kill us.
Please forward my advance apologies to any “good” people you may know over there and tell them if they are smart they’ll get out of town. Also tell them it might have helped if they’d stood up and said that blowing up people with homicide bombers is wrong but now it’s probably too late.
October 20th, 2005 at 2:56 pm#59 Why is it “probably too late”? Do you actually believe that killing people is the answer to the world’s problems? Have you already decided that people over there have to die to prove that killing innocent people is wrong? Do you really think it will put an end to the violence? Do you even care WHY the terrorists have denounced the USA? Did it ever occur to you that if our government stopped doing the things it is doing to make them mad at us, that they might, just might, stop trying to kill any of us? Or is it “too late” to look for peaceful solutions?
October 20th, 2005 at 3:01 pmAnother example of George Soros’ hit men claiming cherry picking statements out of context, distorting them to look like contradictions. Rice’s statement in June included this:
“But the neighbor that the Iraqis are most worried about, of course, are the Syrians at this point, where there’s a direct relationship between what’s going on in their territory.”
And the reason Rice said Syria was not Iraq? What thinkreact.org left out OF THE MIDDLE of Rice’s statement that correctly explains the difference:
“…including its connections to weapons of mass destruction over a long period of time, including using them, terrorism, 17 resolutions in the UN Security Council, and we were essentially still in a state of war with Iraq.”
No contradiction here, just another distortion by thinkreact.org. And the Soros Leftoid Robots just accecpt it.
October 20th, 2005 at 3:08 pmI-R-I, you are a disgraceful excuse for a human being.
Go watch another war movie or play another war video game you nitwit. These are PEOPLE we’re talking about, not just images on a screen. There is no place for people like you in this world. No place.
October 20th, 2005 at 3:09 pmRyan, seriously, what is your problem? Can you not debate without all of the rest of the garbage? I asked you the other day about your age because you behave like a liitle kid. Try just arguing the points.
One of these days people will figure out that no matter who was sitting in the White House we were going to war in the Middle East. The reason is that organized terror had become a real threat. The threat was not that people would die but that they would change the way they lived. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that in order to dismantle, reduce and/or defeat the infrastructure of this type of terror troops would have to be in theater. Iraq and Saddam’s refusal to comply with UN resolutions gave the US the excuse or reason to put them in the region. We simply could not allow for there to be subsequent events like 9-11. The day that America decides to alter her lifestyles for fear of being victims of terrorists acts is the day America ceases to be the economic power that she is. That is the threat and whether you like it or not that is why we are in Iraq. The fact that someone like Saddam who was killing people with regularity has been removed is a good thing for the people but is essential in transforming the region from one that is governed by fear rather than by compromise.
October 20th, 2005 at 3:11 pmDVDA,
I think the point is that they are starting to beat the war drums again. We all know that it’s bullshit, so the rationale is insignificant. Piss off.
October 20th, 2005 at 3:13 pmonce again, i have to ask - what will become of us all, the u.s.a.? people who label themselves “right-between-the-eyes”, his friends n.e.d. and aphrodite (a misnomer if ever), and other freepers (i happened upon there once - very scary indeed) - what will happen when - not IF (yes i am THAT optomistic) - this country gets back to it’s respectful purpose and dignity? what will become of all the hate those types harbor? what will make them see that the things progressives stand for are actually good for ALL the people? i am so confused as to how they can really believe the things they say…so selfish and greedy and bad…and totally unlogical……………”imagine”
October 20th, 2005 at 3:14 pmBen,
I’m saying it again. You’re a moron that has bought what the Lie Party has sold you. You’re wrong on every point you make. They lie and you’re stupid, a very deadly combination.
October 20th, 2005 at 3:14 pmI-RIGHT-I,
Are you serious in #57?
http://www.memri.org was founded by two people and is based in Washington D.C.
First: Yigal Carmon, a former Israeli Colonel. Was a senior officer in Unit 504, a small secret unit dedicated to human intelligence who administers Facility 1391, a prison described by critics as “Israel’s Guantanamo”.
Second: Dr. Meyrav Wurmser. Also an Israeli, who just happens to be married to David Wurmser: Principal Deputy Assistant to the Vice President for National Security Affairs in the Office of Vice President Dick Cheney.
Are these your sources? You think these people and this organization is not being run or influenced by the U.S. Government?
I think all you did was validate my comments. You are listening and reading what others are telling you to hear and read.
October 20th, 2005 at 3:15 pmWayne, I have one question. Did it ever occur to you that if the Phillipines, Africa, Germany, Austrailia, Spain, Great Britian, Russia, and on and on and on, stopped doing what they were doing they would leave them alone too?
October 20th, 2005 at 3:15 pmDoes this not indicate a possible flaw in our system? That being that the WH speakers are not ever to be actually held accountable for what they say. I think that anyone speaking on behalf of the government to the American people should always do so under oath. Period. If you lie, you pay. The flagrant lack of concern about even keeping their lies straight is appalling. Rice could give a rat’s @ss about what she said earlier - that’s ‘old news’ to them. Once they’ve shoveled their crap at us, they are done with it, expecting us to eat it up, believe it, and not notice that they continually contradict themselves.
October 20th, 2005 at 3:15 pmkaty, when their hateful, warmongering heroes are bounced from office (and they will be), they go back under their rocks and their white-hooded sheets and their miserable, angry existences.
October 20th, 2005 at 3:17 pmJay,
October 20th, 2005 at 3:19 pmYou’re a moron that has bought what George Soros has sold you. They lie and you’re stupid, a very deadly combination.
jay, let’s face it you have the intelligence of a rock. You and your buddy Ryan are completely brainwashed. You make ridiculous points. The reason why the left is not getting anywhere is because of people just like yourself. You’re too short-sighted. You live in la-la land.
October 20th, 2005 at 3:19 pmDVDA,
I know you guys can’t think for yourselves, but do you have to steal a line from this same thread? You idiot.
October 20th, 2005 at 3:20 pmAnother example of George Soros’ hit men cherry picking statements out of context, distorting them to look like contradictions. Rice’s statement in June included this:
“But the neighbor that the Iraqis are most worried about, of course, are the Syrians at this point, where there’s a direct relationship between what’s going on in their territory.â€
And the reason Rice said Syria was not Iraq? What thinkreact.org left out OF THE MIDDLE of Rice’s statement that correctly explains the difference:
“…including its connections to weapons of mass destruction over a long period of time, including using them, terrorism, 17 resolutions in the UN Security Council, and we were essentially still in a state of war with Iraq.â€
No contradiction here, just another distortion by thinkreact.org. And the Soros Leftoid Robots just accecpt it
October 20th, 2005 at 3:21 pmJay that’s all you and your buddy Ryan do everyday. Every rebuttal you make has idiot or moron in it. You are simple to immature and stupid to see that by doing that you are what you call others.
October 20th, 2005 at 3:23 pmBen, you’ve been smoked out as a nitwit long ago. In fact, anybody that still supports Bush, Iraq and the GOP, is a goddamned idiot. There’s really no debate about it. All of the wingnut talking points are exposed as fraudulent, so it’s no longer even a challenge to debunk your foolishness. We live in parallel univereses and YOU CLOWNS are my ENEMY. I will fight you anywhere, anytime, by any means.
October 20th, 2005 at 3:24 pmBen, you trolls are armed with utter nonsense. Nothing but lies and talking points. When will it sink in that you have been bitch-slapped by the GOP and president fraud? I’m only trying to help you see the error of your choice, as a fellow American. I consider it my duty to help the cerebrally impaired, so don’t look a gift horse in the mouth.
October 20th, 2005 at 3:28 pm#68.
Yes.
Yes I do.
We are all going to have to learn to get along with each other if we want to survive as a species.
I don’t claim that any other country that meddles in the affairs of another is in the right any more than we are. And one part of the reason that the countries you listed get attacked is because of their support of US.
As much as it pains me to say it, the United States has not always lived up to the standards we claim to promote. That doesn’t mean that I hate my country, just that it disappoints me because I expect better of our government.
Perhaps I am an idealist in this, but I really do believe when we as a nation start practicing what we preach, the rest of the world will respect us more. Until then, our country is viewed by many as a hypocrite, and rightly so.
October 20th, 2005 at 3:28 pmI-RIGHT-I,
#59, maybe you should try to forward your posthumous apologies to the innocent people who already have died? And maybe you should try to forward your apologies to their kin as well? Do you think it will be well received? Would it be if it were your children and wife that were slaughtered?
You don’t care you humanize humans? What does that make you? Human at best, but a barbarian at least?
All modern wars have ended in negotiations; this is direct evidence that the war was not needed in the first place.
What proof do you have that the Iranians leaders are all bad, and “want to kill us all?”
October 20th, 2005 at 3:29 pmBen, I see your points. I don’t agree with most of them but I can see a certain sense of optimism there which is admirable. However I can also see you have not thought a lot about the reasons things are the way they are perhaps trust your government perhaps a little too much:
“It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that in order to dismantle, reduce and/or defeat the infrastructure of this type of terror troops would have to be in theater.”
To save me keystrokes can you tell me what the causus belli of Osama Bin Laden are? I’ll settle for three distinct ones.
October 20th, 2005 at 3:30 pmBen, can you clarify your pronouns in question #68, i.e. “…they would leave them alone, too?”
October 20th, 2005 at 3:30 pm#59
“I don’t care to humanize the enemy. War is war and there’s no place for sympathy or sloppy sentimentality. I know they are not all bad, especially the Iranians but unfortunately their leaders are all bad and want to kill us.”
So you are doing what you accuse them of doing? They don’t care about us, they just want to kill us. And you don’t care about them, you just want them all dead…. hmmmm….. Could not an Iraqi (terrorist or not) say with accuracy, ” I know they are not all bad, especially the Americans but unfortunately their leaders are all bad and want to kill us” ? I agree that war is war - sure. This is not a war. On what date did CONGRESS declare the US was at war (and don’t come off with some 9/11 BS - when did America go “To War”?)
October 20th, 2005 at 3:30 pmIf you staunchly support the “War” that Bush has declared (America has not declared “War”), then show your support of the “war” and your support of the troops by joining. No kidding. That is the number one way to support the troops - join their ranks and fight this “war”, and encourage all your friends and family to do so(espescially your children). If you balk at this at all, your “support” of this “war” is a hypocritical farce. If it is the true and mighty cause, if it is the Will of God, if it is securing our freedom and the freedom of the world, then it is a cause worth dying for. If the cause of a war is not worth dying for, then the war is not worth fighting.
Another example of George Soros’ hit men claiming cherry picking statements out of context, distorting them to look like contradictions. Rice’s statement in June included this:
“But the neighbor that the Iraqis are most worried about, of course, are the Syrians at this point, where there’s a direct relationship between what’s going on in their territory.â€
And the reason Rice said Syria was not Iraq? What thinkreact.org left out OF THE MIDDLE of Rice’s statement that correctly explains the difference:
“…including its connections to weapons of mass destruction over a long period of time, including using them, terrorism, 17 resolutions in the UN Security Council, and we were essentially still in a state of war with Iraq.â€
No contradiction here, just another distortion by thinkreact.org. And the Soros Leftoid Robots just accecpt it
October 20th, 2005 at 3:30 pmjay, let’s face it you have the intelligence of a rock. You and your buddy Ryan are completely brainwashed. You make ridiculous points. The reason why the left is not getting anywhere is because of people just like yourself. You’re too short-sighted. You live in la-la land.
Comment by Ben
Don’t fight it, just embrace the fact that some people love to hate and love evil. Once you get past the idea that everyone is created equal it becomes much easier. There will always be Walking Dead Losers until Jesus Christ Himself takes charge of the situation and begins the process of culling the herd.
October 20th, 2005 at 3:31 pmElvis, you always bring sound arguments to the table, but after a while don’t you just get frustrated with these guys? They truly do not get it. It’s as if they’ve been brainwashed but there’s this tiny little voice of conscience or guilt in the back of their minds that keeps them arguing with us.
October 20th, 2005 at 3:32 pmJay if I was smoked out it was by what you and your side has been smoking. Trust me, you guys will be done for a long time to come. A long time. You just can’t seem to figure out that most Americans understood completely that 9-11, Spain, Great Britan, etc were attacks by an enemy that has no intentions of stopping until they win or die. Your side does not get that. That is why people like you will continue to be the spineless individuals that you are. Americans recognize that we were attacked. You apparently think it was something else. And because of that you’re just plain stupid. They stuck that hook right in your nose and they have been dragging you around like cattle.
October 20th, 2005 at 3:32 pmjay - that’s little consolation…they will still be hating, according to you…silly me - i want the hate to stop…and you and ryan are getting on my nerves because of this…i’m on your side, but i’m so tired of the hate and anger…i hope to lead by example, you know?………..”imagine”
October 20th, 2005 at 3:35 pmOK, a few serious questions for Ben and I-R-I.
What did Bush do when he got his Aug 6th 01′ PDB that stated that Bin Laden determined to strike within the U.S? How did he respond?
Why did the Bush admin. fight the creation of the 9/11 Commission?
Why, once they formed that commission under public pressure, did they withhold thousands of pages of documentation?
Why couldn’t Bush testify under oath?
Why did Bush need to hold Uncle Dick’s hand when he did testify?
Fair questions. Let’s hear it.
October 20th, 2005 at 3:37 pm#78 Wayne, if the point you are making directly pertains to things like Israel I could not agree more. That is a huge topic but one that begs this question, “again, why do we have Israel’s back?” or ” why are they so mad at Israel?’ or “if we stayed out of the region completely would they leave us alone?”. I think Israel’s unwillingness to deal fairly with Palestine has always been the problem. US politicians unwillingness to openly challenge that behavior makes one wonder what are they afraid of. Could it be Jewish influence in journalism and entertainment might put their political careers at risk?
October 20th, 2005 at 3:40 pmkaty,
You’re right, I’ll chill out. However, I am angry and you should be too. If you’re not, I don’t think you’ve been paying attention.
October 20th, 2005 at 3:40 pmWhat proof do you have that the Iranians leaders are all bad, and “want to kill us all?â€
Comment by Elvis
If you’ll go to that website I gave you and purse the archives you’ll find plenty of evidence from their own Islamist press releases, sermons and general propaganda. But tell me how many bad guys does it take to launch a nuclear tipped ICBM?
October 20th, 2005 at 3:40 pm#63
“Iraq and Saddam’s refusal to comply with UN resolutions gave the US the excuse or reason to put them in the region. ”
So, you say that since Iraq refused to comply with the UN that gave us a legitimate reason to invade them, even against the express wishes of the UN? What? Do you even see the problem with this argument?
“The day that America decides to alter her lifestyles for fear of being victims of terrorists acts is the day America ceases to be the economic power that she is.”
And you are saying that we have not had to change our lifestyles? And “fear of being victims”? Exactly how many alerts have tyhere been here since 9/11? How many have been conclusively shown to have had merit? What about eh Patriot act? We are to give up civil liberties that we already had in the name of ’security’ and under the pretense of .. well .. fear. Plastic sheeting and duct tape, anyone?
“That is the threat and whether you like it or not that is why we are in Iraq.”
Wait… wasn’t the reason WMD? Is that not the only argument that this war was sold to the American public on? Oh, there have been many addendums and alterations. What was the reason given when America was fulling willing to back action? It was not economic stability.
The fact that someone like Saddam who was killing people with regularity has been removed is a good thing for the people but is essential in transforming the region from one that is governed by fear rather than by compromise.
Yep. The region has been transformed allright. “Mission accomplished”. Whew! Boy am I glad that those Iraqis don’t live in fear any longer and their people are not being killed by those who are supposed to be protecting them (oh, wait… didn’t we just bomb a bunch of so-called terrorists who were doing nothing more than looking at several day old wreckage… a group that included a number of small children… oh, I forgot, you all don’t have any concern for life unless it is a controll issue over women.. oh, I mean “a fetus”).
October 20th, 2005 at 3:41 pmkaty,
You’re right, I’ll chill out. However, I am angry and you should be too. If you’re not, I don’t think you’ve been paying attention.
Comment by Jay
Who cares if you’re angry B-Jay? Who cares if any of you are angry? The fact is you’re just a bunch of pimply faced kids and worn out 60’s radical losers who can’t do jack.
October 20th, 2005 at 3:43 pmOh and another question for Ben and I-R-I.
I’m going to assume that you both think that in a democracy, its essential that every vote be counted. Based on the FACTS that Sequoia, ES&S and Diebold are the three major companies whose electronic voting machines this country uses for its elections. And the fact that Wally O’Dell (a Bush Ranger or Pioneer) can’t remember which, and Chick Hagel (R- Nebraska) own and have a massive stake in these companies, respectively, you would think that the Republicans, if the last two elections were truly legitimate, wouldn’t have a problem with legislation that made ballot receipts mandatory. Why would Republicans fight this tooth and nail?
http://www.verifiedvoting.org/article.php?id=5037
October 20th, 2005 at 3:49 pmI-R-I, answer the questions in 88.
October 20th, 2005 at 3:50 pmI-RIGHT-I,
#84, “Once you get past the idea that everyone is created equal it becomes much easier.”
What does? Racism? Prejudice? Killing? Hatred? Acceptance of all of the above in others against others?
October 20th, 2005 at 3:51 pmI mean, does this look good to you? Is this the kind of democracy that you want?
http://www.freepress.org/ departments/ display/ 19/ 2005/ 1197
October 20th, 2005 at 3:52 pmJay
1) According to what I have and I have read a lot the amount of pure volume that we receive on a daily basis is larger than our resources to respond to it. Either way if you believe that it’s his mistake because it happened on his watch I won’t argue that. Although, I think that was how the WH had been being handling it for quite some time.
2) I think the WH was concerned about political intentions of the DNC in those investigations. Reverse the parties and you would have gotten the same objections. It’s a shame that these things can’t be stated plainly. Then the structure of the investigations could carry greater effectiveness.
3) The withholding of documents would three-fold. a) classified material b)practical strategies in the national interest that may not be well received on a global level c)not revealing mistakes made by those in office.
4)Refer to 2 and 3
5)Refer to 2 and 3
Okay there it is.
October 20th, 2005 at 3:56 pm#79 Ben, let’s not go there with the whole “Jewish influence in journalism and entertainment” nonsense. It’s unbecoming in an intellectual debate.
And it’s not just our support of Israel that has the terrorists angry at us. It’s the hypocrisy of our country saying one thing and then doing the opposite and lying about the reasons why.
Fear and ignorance (tweo staples of the conservative philosophy) are what make people want to kill people they don’t know or understand. Hell, even President Bush didn’t understand that there is not “one Iraqi people”; there are the Shia, the Sunni and the Kurds. He actually thought that they were all the same. And his delusion that “spreading democracy” by bombing people into submission is based on a total lack of understanding about people different from himself.
Education is the best path to destroying hate and fear. When we get to know the people of other countries better, what they’re really like, we’ll find that many of them go through the same troubles that we Americans do with trying to raise kids, feed our families and provide shelter for them. Everyone in the world faces those challenges and the last thing any of them need is some alcoholic, drug-addicted, power-hungry, rich, greedy, ignoramus like our President killing them because he doesn’t like their leader.
October 20th, 2005 at 3:58 pm-RIGHT-I,
#84, “Once you get past the idea that everyone is created equal it becomes much easier.â€
What does?
Comment by Elvis
Stomaching your Leftist bullshit.
October 20th, 2005 at 4:00 pm#90 jay - i am VERY angry, and rightfully so, all of us SHOULD be angry with the mess that has been made of our world…sometimes i think i should NOT pay so much attention - better for my mental health…i don’t like the hurt…but i’m here, aren’t i?………….”imagine”
October 20th, 2005 at 4:01 pmThe fact is you’re just a bunch of pimply faced kids and worn out 60’s radical losers who can’t do jack.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — October 20, 2005 @ 3:43 pm
Fine, then- Step up and show us why you’re so courageous. Join the National Guard & start killing for your President, Tough Guy. Or..are you a coward?
October 20th, 2005 at 4:02 pmChickenhawk
October 20th, 2005 at 4:03 pmAsk to be the first to cross the border into Syria or Iran when you do join, by the way.
October 20th, 2005 at 4:04 pm#79 Ben, let’s not go there with the whole “Jewish influence in journalism and entertainment†nonsense. It’s unbecoming in an intellectual debate.
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider
Why? You Left Wing folks are always looking for the root cause. Lousy TV, terrible movies and biased reporting can all be traced to the people who produce it. Left wing non religious Jews are the problem. Period. I wonder if the Germans had the same problem with y’all?
October 20th, 2005 at 4:04 pmJoin up, Coward
October 20th, 2005 at 4:04 pmJay, how many links would you like to see that challenge all of this voting issue. There are so many. So many people on the left and minority groups have looked at the information and could not find enough evidence of wrongdoing. In fact in actual cases, there were more from the left. Take for example the 2000 election. The race in Florida is called before the polls are closed. Predominately the Republican panhandle was still open. They have calibrated the impact of that event and those lost votes would have easily given Florida to Bush. Then in 2004 we get the early exit vote polling data and it is a complete sham. Making out like Kerry is killing Bush while, again, active voting is going on. The purpose was to discourage Bush voting by virtue that it would be pointless. Now Jay if you believe these are not shady then you are just too biased in your beliefs.
October 20th, 2005 at 4:04 pmGutless.
October 20th, 2005 at 4:05 pm1) Bush did nothing in response to that Aug 6th PDB but go fishing. That’s a fact. In addition, George Tenet admitted that he personally visited the ranch in Crawford in that time period to brief the president because as he put it, with regard to terror, “all the lights were flashing red”. George stayed on vacation. Meanwhile, when the Republicans in Congress introduced an 11th hour bill to keep Terry Schiavo alive, Bush rushed back to D.C. in the middle of the night to sign on. That my friend, is where the presidents priorities are.
2) “The White House was concerned about the political intentions of the DNC”? Are you f^&$ng kidding me? So they were putting politics and their fear of the completely powerless/toothless opposition party that they piss all over constantly before the need to investigate 9/11. Holy shi*. That is not only damning and incredibly disappointing if you’re a family member of a 9/11 victim….it’s total bullshi*.
3) There is NO excuse for withholding documents of ANY kind from the bipartisan commission investigating 9/11. They were supposed to be trying to take steps toward avoiding a similar incident in the future and once again the Bush admin was worried about politics? So disgraceful. No excuse.
October 20th, 2005 at 4:06 pm“#84, “Once you get past the idea that everyone is created equal it becomes much easier.â€
Hmm, read the second paragraph of this: http://www.law.indiana.edu/uslawdocs/declaration.html
IRI is a Nazi - QED
October 20th, 2005 at 4:07 pmFine, then- Step up and show us why you’re so courageous. Join the National Guard & start killing for your President, Tough Guy. Or..are you a coward?
Comment by jparker
I work for the military industrial complex. I kill more bad guys sitting on my ass here in Texas than most Marines do in their entire career. You’re welcome.
October 20th, 2005 at 4:07 pmIRI has Keyboard Courage and no spine. Join up and actually put yourself in the line of fire. There’s a shortage of troops
October 20th, 2005 at 4:08 pmI kill more bad guys sitting on my ass here in Texas than most Marines do in their entire career. You’re welcome.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — October 20, 2005 @ 4:07 pm
No, you’re a joke. Go to war and report back to us.
October 20th, 2005 at 4:09 pmTake the wealth of killin’ knowledge and actually join. You haven’t got the stones to go to Iraq / Iran / Syria, do you?
October 20th, 2005 at 4:10 pmSo let’s see, a country with WMD, invades its neighbors every few years or so, complicit in acts of genocide, governs by oppressing ethnic groups within its borders, refuses to comply with UN resolutions.
If I tell Rummy who they are will he invade them too? They sound pretty nasty don’t they Ben?
October 20th, 2005 at 4:10 pmHmm, read the second paragraph of this: http://www.law.indiana.edu/uslawdocs/declaration.html
IRI is a Nazi - QED
Comment by Terrytheturtle
What can I say? Jefferson was wrong. Sally Jennings said so.
October 20th, 2005 at 4:10 pm3) There is NO excuse for withholding documents of ANY kind from the bipartisan commission investigating 9/11. They were supposed to be trying to take steps toward avoiding a similar incident in the future and once again the Bush admin was worried about politics? So disgraceful. No excuse.
Comment by Jay
You don’t give state secrets to traitors.
October 20th, 2005 at 4:11 pmI see you are still having trouble finding out why OBL does the things he does, Ben?
October 20th, 2005 at 4:12 pmWayne, you almost had me fooled. Then you contradicted yourself by claiming you were being intelligent. Your final sentence proved that. Not to mention that apparently you do not understand a few things about the Middle East. Our support of Israel is the #1 reason for hatred of the US by Muslims abroad. #2 is they blame our culture for poisoning their youth and ultimately threatening the future of their culture because of it. Take a good look at what is happening to the youth in Iran.
October 20th, 2005 at 4:12 pmAnd I’ll save my thanks for the military personnel that had the courage to sign up; especially friends of mine that are actually there, even though they are not in support of the President’s policies.
You’re a HUGE coward, IRI..
October 20th, 2005 at 4:12 pm#98 If it was the political intentions of the DNC they were worried about, then why not immediately suggest an independent or bi-partisan investigative team? If this is a matter of national security (and it is), then why this adamant partisan politicing over the whole issue. A question of national security transcends all petty party politics.
October 20th, 2005 at 4:13 pmWithholding ‘classified’ information from an investigation is not acceptable, as any such investigative team should, in order to be functional, hold the highest security clearance. If you hold a sufficient level of clearance, you can view the documents. If they are pertinent, the investigators need to see them, or else the entire investigation is pointless and invalidated because they don’t have all the available facts and data. The only real reason to withold documentation is if you have something to hide.
If we have “practical strategies in the national interest that may not be well received on a global level” then there is a problem. If the world’s nations would find our “practical strategies” to be immoral or unjust, then they are unacceptable. In fact, if other nations would find them disagreeable, then the American people may find them disagreeable as well. And to hide documents to not reveal mistakes of those in office? Sorry, but that is one of the functions of an investigation… find out exactly what happened and who is to blame. Refusing to hand over documents because they might incriminate someone in office is an obstruction of justice and probably conspiracy, and direct contempt of the entire concept of justice. You argue that, well, we might be doing things that people wouldn’t like, and that there might be evidence that officials are guilty of some actual wrongdoing, so its o.k. to withhold the incriminating evidence. An report from an investigation can contain classified info if it is blacked out before release to the public - they do it all the time.
I’m not asking about past elections, I’m asking about assuring that the obvious conflicts of interest with voting machines are addressed so that future elections can be assured legitimacy.
p.s. I can show you hundreds of websites that provide scientific evidence that the last two presidential elections were completely tampered with. It’s a fact, and the GOP has been perfecting the act of stealing elections for years. There are multiple instances of election results going completely haywire and not only defying the exit polls, but all the polls. All of this hanky-panky occurs where touch-screen and optical scan voting machines are in place. If the GOP has nothing to hide, and THEY OWN THE DAMN EQUIPMENT, wouldn’t you agree that the least that can be done is we get a receipt? You have to at least admit that not doing so is extremely undemocratic and suspect.
October 20th, 2005 at 4:13 pmJay, I think the receipt thing should happen, definitely. How about a picture ID so we know that the individual voting is who they say they are?
October 20th, 2005 at 4:18 pmTerrythe turle, would you let us all know why OBL does what he does. Thanks.
October 20th, 2005 at 4:20 pmGreat Ben, we agree. Lets support the Rush Holt bill together then. there is a “Here’s How You Can Help” section:
http://www.verifiedvoting.org/article.php?id=5037
October 20th, 2005 at 4:21 pm# 111 IRI
October 20th, 2005 at 4:22 pm“I work for the military industrial complex. I kill more bad guys sitting on my ass here in Texas than most Marines do in their entire career. You’re welcome.”
Boast about that to a front line marine, son, and see what it gets you.
I find this I-R-I character more despicable than any of the other wingnuts I’ve come across in all the time I’ve spent blogging. I’m sure you’ll wear it as a badge of honor, but it’s you that’s the enemy of the future of me and my family. I’d fight ya if I met ya. We ain’t all pacificsts like you think.
October 20th, 2005 at 4:25 pmThis is her 15 min. of face time.
October 20th, 2005 at 4:25 pmAs part of WHIG, she’ll soon be named as an unindicted co-conspirator. And then it’s bye bye beeech.
Okay Jay, I will take a look at it. Voting should be done honestly. Let the chips fall where they may even if you don’t agree.
October 20th, 2005 at 4:27 pmI-RIGHT-I,
#91, There is no way you are going to get me to believe what that site says, as per my post #67. You are as well off listening and reading what they are telling you, as you would be listening as reading what the Bush Administration is telling you.
But in regards to your question: “how many bad guys does it take to launch a nuclear tipped ICBM?”
The answer is; a lot. You need the engineers, the scientists, the resources etc to build it all, and then the means to deliver it. As of right now only Russia, the United States, France [1], the UK, and China actually have ICBM’s. It’s one thing to have a nuclear device; it’s another to have the means to deliver it.
By the way, the CIA stated just a few months ago that even IF (big if) Iran were trying to develop a nuclear warhead, they are at a minimum ten years away from doing so.
October 20th, 2005 at 4:27 pmWHIG is going down. If we’re lucky he’ll bring in the whole (America-hating) PNAC, as well.
October 20th, 2005 at 4:29 pmBen,
That is fair enough. I agree, if the votes are counted legitimately, everything is cool with me. As of now, and until things change…that’s a BIG if.
October 20th, 2005 at 4:31 pm#130 You mean, it’s NOT just one little button and you can hit any point on the globe from any other point on the globe?
October 20th, 2005 at 4:34 pm#124 Thanks for proving my point, Ben. (1) you have no idea why OBL does what he does and (2) you don’t care (3) the answer is simply to send US soldiers to kill ‘bad guys’. Thanks to informed opinion like yours, we are on the brink of general warfare breaking out from Afghanistan to the Mediterranean.
http://en.wikisource.org/ wiki/ Osama_bin_Laden%27s_Declaration_of_War
Summary:
(1) US Troops in muslim lands and support for Saudi regime
(2) Unequivocal support for Israel in occupation of Jerusalem
(3) Sanctions on Iraq resulting in deaths of ordinary muslims.
To simplify things, why does sending troops to the ME help defeat OBLs movement? If we assume that OBL knows what he is doing, then his opinion may be shared by a number of his countrymen, don’t you think? Or are you smarter than OBL? Over to you.
October 20th, 2005 at 4:35 pm“You don’t give state secrets to traitors.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I ”
It’s official, MrWrong has called for the banning of the republicans from holding office! If you don’t give state secrets to traitors, then republicans clearly don’t belong in office!
October 20th, 2005 at 4:38 pmTerry, this was how I put it to a friend in email some time ago. Sorry for the length:
1. We were attacked due to “envy of our position, our success, our freedoms”. This argument flies in the face of every shred of evidence regarding motives of Muslim extremists and specifically Bin Ladin. They have clear and publicly stated goals as well as reason for their action. They want to force the US governement to change it’s foreign policy in the Muslin world. Our current policies do the following (Iraq invasion not withstanding):
a. Lend unquestioning support to the state of Israel in direct opposition to the will of the Arab world. They are asking for a fair broker in the endless/fruitless efforts to negotiate a peaceful settlement between Israel and Palestine. We have not been fair in that regard.
b. Leave large numbers of American military forces scattered throughout the Arab world. Most specifically in Saudi Arabia and in close proximity to the holy cities of Mecca and Medina, they want those troops removed. This doesn’t strike me as an unreasonable request. Why do you suppose we continue to stay?
c. The US government also props up ruthless dictators in the Arab world that subjugate their people in the name of staying in power as virtual US protectorates in order to keep our oil flowing at consumer-friendly prices. Again, Saudi Arabia is the most obvious example. American Patriots fought the Revolutionary War over “taxation without representation” among other things. Why wouldn’t the Arab world become unruly as our foreign policy manipulates their leaders (sometimes forcefully) into virtually giving away their only resource, leaving the vast majority of their populace to live as desperate subjects to Shiekh’s and Prince’s?
d. First we support (with guns and money) Bin Ladin as he fights the Russians in Afghanistan, now we must rid the world of all “terrorist evildoers”. First we support Saddam Hussein (with chemical and biological weapons and tacit diplomatic ties) as he fights our sworn enemy Iran, then we feign moral outrage at how he “gassed his own people”. I have no idea how