From the New York Daily News:
By on Oct 25th, 2005 at 10:04 am
From the New York Daily News:
“President Bush’s damage-control handlers are plotting a sophisticated war room offensive to fight back against possible indictments in the CIA leak probe…[Yesterday] Team Bush was finalizing its campaign to discredit and undermine special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald’s conclusions.”
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So can this be considered “The War on Justice”?
As Ron Suskind wrote in the NYT Magazine, quoting a White House Aide:
“The aide said that guys like me were ‘in what we call the reality-based community,’ which he defined as people who ‘believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.’ I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. ‘That’s not the way the world really works anymore,’ he continued. ‘We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality – judiciously, as you will – we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.’”
See Justin Raimondo’s article for more:
http://antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=3822
October 25th, 2005 at 10:12 amUnbelievable. And the punditry thought this president was going to ACCEPT any possible indictments? The Bush clan is in trouble and that comes first.
greg wirth
October 25th, 2005 at 10:12 amhttp://www.americanlgc.blogspot.com
Well, we knew they werern’t going to roll over and take it. Dems are hopefully meeting to discredit the discrediting.
Fortunately, the right wing spin machine is going to have to rely on some serious nuance to make their points, but all we have to do is repeat the larger, unnanced story:
- the administration fixed the intel about the war
October 25th, 2005 at 10:14 am- Wilson tried to disagree, they smeared him and outed a covert CIA operative
- they tried to lie to cover it up
Ok, quiz time. Who said this?
“I think it’s plain that the president should resign and spare the country the agony of this impeachment and removal proceeding. I think the country could be spared a lot of agony and the government could worry about inflation and a lot of other problems if he’d go on and resign. [There is] no question that an admission of making false statements to government officials and interfering with the FBI and the CIA is an impeachable offense.”
October 25th, 2005 at 10:24 amI hope that any readers out there who work for ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, or CNN (forget Fox News), please, I’m begging you, do NOT book anybody on your prime time or Sunday talk shows who are going to support the administration’s view. You know that they are going to lie. You know that they are going to try to discredit Patrick Fitzgerald with misrepresentations about things like he went past his original mandate (not true), he’s partisan (not true), perjury isn’t all that serious a crime (doubly not true.)
Unless you are prepared to really beat them up and make them squirm and sweat while trying to spin the admin’s position, you will be doing nothing but a disservice to your viewers and to the nation. Stop enabling the liars. And if you catch anyone in a lie, you have an obligation to call them on it in front of the viewers. Please, I know some of you read these blogs. Stop helping them lie to the country.
Thank you.
October 25th, 2005 at 10:26 am(I tried.)
I agree with
Wayne A. Schneider.
But the “news” shows will continue to allow the atmosphere of having the liars on as to allow the liars expose themselves with minimal rebuttal. It’s frusterating. It’s the “whatever you say” format.
October 25th, 2005 at 10:34 amDon’t forget: Rove:
“Already said too much”
“Will be declassified soon”
(Discussing Plame)
October 25th, 2005 at 10:37 am#5 & #6 — the fact that you think the MSM is soft on the adiministration is hilarious. All they do is parrot Dem talking points and attack conservatives. Look at the make up of any of the panels (except for Fox) and you will see 3 or 4 liberals and a token conservative who is just there as a punching bag.
Do you really want to silence one side of the discussion? Sounds kind of fascist to me. That said, I agree that if someone is lying/spinning the host should call them on it.
October 25th, 2005 at 10:44 amI sense misunderstanding out there about how classified information works. In order to be given access to classified information, you must have three things: 1) Proper identification (to prove you who you say you are); 2) the proper security level clearance for the information you are about to be shown; and, most importantly and most misunderstood, 3) you MUST have a NEED TO KNOW.
It is not sufficient that you have the first two but only a curiosity about the subject without having any real need to know the information. I held some pretty high security clearances while I was in the Air Force, but it did not mean that I was allowed to go through the safe and read reports just for fun. I had no need to know the informaiton, so I should never have been granted access.
Also, information is only supposed to be classified if it relates to national security. Information cannot be classified just because it’s embarrassing to the government. Very often, classified documents are marked “OADR” which means “originating agency decides reduction.” The practical translation of this is that if Rove knowingly gave a reporter classified information, he cannot simply say it “will be declassified soon.” It’s not up to him to make that decision and until that decision to declassify the information is made at the proper level, it would still be a crime to disclose it to anyone not entitled to receive it.
October 25th, 2005 at 10:45 amMr. President, I am sorry to report to you that there is a cancer spreading in your presidency. It is growing so fast that it is now too late for chemotherapy.
If we try to excise it, it will only grow and spread. Perhaps you should think of resigning.
October 25th, 2005 at 10:48 amCC, please give an example of one talking head show that pits more liberals against fewer conservatives.
October 25th, 2005 at 10:51 am“I admit it,” he told a reporter. “The liberal media were never that powerful, and the whole thing was often used as an excuse by conservatives for conservative failures.”-Kristol
October 25th, 2005 at 10:52 amI’m beginning to think that all of this Rove and Libby talk is just a sidelight, a bit of a distraction from the vast conspiracy that will soon be revealed.
October 25th, 2005 at 10:53 amthis may work with the unwashed masses, but it won’t work with Fitzy, and he’s the one who counts… he’s not going to watch Meet the Press and say to himself, “You know, these guys are right. Perjury isn’t really a big deal. First thing tomorrow I’m dropping the investigation.”
for once, things are beyond the spin control of neocons
October 25th, 2005 at 10:53 am#11 — Hardball, Stephanopolous to name two
October 25th, 2005 at 10:54 amso cc. what do you think of the efforts certain segments are makeing towards discrediting the prosecutor, Fitzgerald, in this case?
October 25th, 2005 at 10:56 amJay, is our bet on?
October 25th, 2005 at 10:57 am#16 — well, I have yet to see it, so it’s a little hard to comment. However, I am sure it will pale in comparison to what the Clinton admin. did to Ken Starr.
October 25th, 2005 at 10:58 amHardball is a platform to showcase Matthew’s reach, whether liberal or otherwise. He’s an egotist. And lately he’s been as gossipy as FOX. I have stopped watching.
Steph is balanced. Liberals SEEM to dominate because INTELLIGENCE dominates. And liberals are smarter than conservatives.
October 25th, 2005 at 11:02 am#9 I’ve also read that just because you have access to classified information doesn’t mean you can discuss it. Even with those who have the same information. The White House was full of blabbermouths. And nothing was out of reach.
October 25th, 2005 at 11:09 amThe American public can be pathetically gullible but they are also very unfordgiving when it comes to disloyalty to country. And the average American hates arrogant above the law behavior. The Bush Admisistration has proven very clearly that they have been disloyal to this country. It has already been proven that the administration went into Iraq with lies. They lied to congress to get approval. That, in itself, is treason.
I’m like Al Franken. I don’t believe in capital punishment but I want to say…Hang Em High.
Ken Starr? Are you joking?
October 25th, 2005 at 11:11 amYeah, I like the Franken push for legislation outlawing execution of a sitting president. Hilarious!
October 25th, 2005 at 11:12 amCC doesn’t know yet what to say, he hasn’t been told yet. Nice try flip flopping what conservatives always do. When they do something wrong, they immediately blame everyone else of doing it to distract from their wrongdoing. It is actaully obvious to most, who have become disenchanted with their FISCALLY RESPONSIBLE leaders, and folks like you (who cannot make up their mind without a dose of Faux News as they have no ideas of their own and just mimic others they admire) what you are trying to do.
The problem you guys are having is that it ain’t workin’ no more. The smearing is tacky and disingenious. It is obvious and ugly. Fox brings on priests to look good and play for you. Just stop buying the manure already.
And, you would sound a little more credible if you could get over your hardon for the Clintons. They won the hearts of the public and that continues to haunt you people. It is over and no bigot conservative will EVER vote for a woman or an Afican American so your point is MOOT if you are trying to contantly smear Hillary. She ain’t gonna’ be president so move on. You look small.
October 25th, 2005 at 11:13 amIssues anyone?
October 25th, 2005 at 11:15 amCC,
The bet is on. As I understand it, the compromise is that if Rove or Libby get indicted for ANYTHING, you go for 60 days right?
I want examples of the panel guests on Hardball and Stephanopolous. There is no liberal slant in the media pal, and every host toes the corporate GOP line. They cover up the true stories.
October 25th, 2005 at 11:18 amThe White House strategy will be to get the networks to start the he-said-she-said journalism. That is all the news networks know how to do. The network news reporters and producers don’t really know how to go out and find the facts or work sources for the facts to get to the truth. It’s cheaper and easier to do he-said-she-said, and that’s what the White House wants. The networks will dutifully follow.
October 25th, 2005 at 11:23 am#4 – what’s the answer???
October 25th, 2005 at 11:23 amIt’s too late. Too damn late. They’ve said too many times that they respect this man, he’s apolitical, honest, etc. There’s just no way to turn all that around and claim “bias, mistakes”, etc.
I worry not a bit about the “spin”. People will see it for what it is–the desperate acts of desperate individuals COMPLETELY unaccustomed to accountability, responsibility, and being at fault.
Honestly, y’all….doesn’t this behavior just SMACK of what a FOUR YEAR OLD would do? What childern do when they don’t get their way? Good lord…
October 25th, 2005 at 11:35 amPunchy, I’d agree with you if the media did it’s job. Instead, we’ll get a constant barrage of lies and spin, and after a while the media’s (and the GOP spin machines) concoted reality takes root in the public consciousness and the “masses” are duped again. This is how they do it every time. Perhaps the media has turned over a new leaf……and perhaps my wife will serve dinner tonight wearing fvck me pumps and lingerie. Ain’t happening. :)
October 25th, 2005 at 11:41 amKaty,
That quote is from Gov. William J. Clinton of Arkansas in August, 1974, speaking of the impending impeachment of Richard Nixon.
October 25th, 2005 at 11:43 am#30 Yup. I found it pretty ironic, because it brings us full circle, given how the Republicans bashed Clinton over the head with it for years. What suited people yesterday as a logical argument now appears too slippery to be subjected to.
October 25th, 2005 at 11:53 am#25– Jay, yes, that is correct. If Libby or Rove get indicted for anything, I leave TP for 60 days. If they don’t, you leave.
#23 — P&P, your contention that everyone who disagrees with your viewpoint must be following a ’script’ or GOP talking points is just silly. I do not watch Fox news more than once per month and I am not on some ‘talking points’ mailing list. I do not really care about the Clintons but I do find it interesting that the same people who are worried about Bush ’smearing’ Wilson or Fitzgerald saw nothing wrong with Clinton’s tactics against Starr and other political enemies. That’s called hypocrisy in my playbook.
October 25th, 2005 at 11:58 amConcerned Conservative, what’s happening, my man? Its Joe here, reading up on your rightwing posts and taking my own que from them on us jabbing at the liberals here. Glad to have your help. That shot in #8 where you attempted to turn the tables on the leftwing networks and play up “Fox” as a fair and balanced lonely voice in the news was so classic and republican. I almost expected you to mention stuff like “media bias” and “mainstream media” like O’Reilly and Hannity do. (Always good to say “facist” now and then, so good job there).
Correct me if I’m wrong, but then in #18 you go and blew it. You and the rest of the rightwing make us all look bad, constantly bringing up Bill Clinton and some office affair he had. I mean, in case someone didn’t tell you on Faux News, regardless of whether Clinton attacked Ken Starr after 4 YEARS of dogging him or not, the Republicans are the ones beginning in 2000 to have sworn to bring dignity, ethics, and accountability back to the White House.
Hey, talking about facists, what’s your take on Tom DeLay is using the same sorry-assed attack tactics to try and weasel out of his corruption charges? If I wasn’t a conservative, I’d be laughing my ass off at guys like me and you right now trying to defend him.
October 25th, 2005 at 12:02 pmHas Fitz dropped his investigation? You be the judge…
http://blogdebogs.blogspot.com/2005/10/breaking-news-fitzy-sees-error-of-his.html
October 25th, 2005 at 12:04 pmThis is to be expected. Spin is what these guys do for a living. In an earlier time it was called sophistry. And there’s never been a shortage of people willing to do it for the right price.
The point is to be ready when they come out with it. They’re starting to roll it out already. But chances are they’re keeping their cards close until Fitzgerald lays his on the table. Hopefully everyone will be ready when he does.
One possible line of attack is the one published recently in the Weekly Standard. http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/006/244chpdw.asp
I’m going to post something on this by the end of the day: http://www.hackthemedia.com
October 25th, 2005 at 12:06 pmJoe S., I would love to engage in a conversation with you but conservative rules forbid rich elitists like me talking to ‘Joe Sixpack’ types. Sorry.
October 25th, 2005 at 12:08 pmOf course CC only watches FAUX once a month, he never turns it off.
October 25th, 2005 at 12:11 pm#34 Yes, it’s true. Fitzie dropped the investigation in favor of taking a cruise on an Exxon tanker with Bill Kristol and New Gingrich to ANWR to club baby seals with John Roberts’ gavel.
Sorry, the investigation grinds on. This period is what us old-timers like to call the “free fall”. It ends with “rock bottom”, which is an uncomfortable place that people can only climb out of with selective memory and Presidential pardons.
October 25th, 2005 at 12:34 pmcc you say you haven’t seen the smear campaign against Fitzgerald? I could swear I saw posts from you in this thread . We’ve had 4 or 5 along these lines over the last few days, but surprisingly I only saw you post on 1.
As far as coparing lying to take a country to war against another soveriegn nation vs lying about consentual adultery, you are gonna have to do better than that in order to make the whole Clinton thing bigger or worse for the US than the fiasco bishco has gotten us into. Sorry. I respectfully disagree with your take here.
October 25th, 2005 at 12:34 pmI almost wish we DID have “liberal talking points” – at least we would be better organized! But unfortunately we think for ourselves and all bring our opinions to the table. Democracy is messy!
October 25th, 2005 at 12:40 pmSending up a little prayer that Fitzgerald keeps on keeping on. Do you suppose that if George axes him before indictment day the website is for him to spill the beans?
“Do you really want to silence one side of the discussion? Sounds kind of fascist to me. That said, I agree that if someone is lying/spinning the host should call them on it.”UnconcernedMoron
You should try posting a liberal comment on reichwing blog sometime – they virtually all censor. You probably aren’t aware of that being a fascist enabler.
As for your comment on reporting – reporters themselves have admitted they were harder on Clinton than Bush. You know the big difference? Bush has screwed up more, so to an apologist and an idiot like you, the truth must seem almost unbearable.
October 25th, 2005 at 12:48 pm#34, pete boggs – guess you gave yourself inspiration with your #14 post…tongue firmly planted in cheek, of course…good deal…but i hope you are right about this; “for once, things are beyond the spin control of neocons”
October 25th, 2005 at 1:05 pm#18
October 25th, 2005 at 1:38 pmConcerned Conservative,
One more thing about the Ken Starr issue. He was sooooo politically attached he was like a siamese twin. Fitzgerald has no political motives, that has been made clear to all.
Anyone see the Milbank/Pincus piece in the WaPo (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/24/AR2005102401690_pf.html)?! I It seems to be a hint at one GOP strategery…utter obfuscation!!
I loved how Hutchison had her ass handed to her after her Sunday trial balloon about real crimes versus perjury!!
Patrick Fitzgerald is the WH’s worst nightmare…a truly honest and brilliant lawyer that sees their bullshit for what it is and for what it has done to the country!!
The thing that concerns me is whether we are too late to prevent the invasion of Syria, or whatever lunacy they have cooked up to deflect interest in Treasongate!! How soon can those indicted be restrained?
BushCo House o’ Cards is coming down!!
October 25th, 2005 at 1:46 pmWhy aren’t site administrators blocking this BuckFush, John deaux, etc. spammer?! It can be done, and it would be a real service to their readership!!
Go away, dude!!
October 25th, 2005 at 2:34 pmThis administration has the nerve to try to smear Fitzgerald after they picked him out as special prosecutor. The Republicans has no shame.
Lets hope fitzgerald can indict them before they invent something else for the media to talk about.
For eight years the Republican bashed Clinton now the crooks got caught and they are all whining.
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