Don’t Believe the Spin: White House Caved to Right-Wing
Don’t Believe the Spin: White House Caved to Right-Wing
This morning in the White House gaggle, Scott McClellan tried to assert that Miers’ resignation did not come as a result of right-wing pressure, but rather was based on an “irresolvable impasse†with the Senate over providing certain confidential documents (an argument which, you will recall, didn’t stop the White House from pushing for John Roberts’ nomination).
Here’s what McClellan said when asked about the right-wing pressure:
Q Is he also deeply disappointed in the way some of his own allies have treated her and him?
McCLELLAN: We’ve always been focused on the Senate, not on the outside commentary or outside groups.
Oh really? It was the Senate pressure that caused Bush to accept Miers’ resignation? If that argument is true, then why didn’t he accept this offer of resignation:
RUMSFELD: I mean, the fact is, Larry, I submitted my resignation to President Bush twice during that period [Abu Ghraib] and told him that I felt that he ought to make the decision as to whether or not I stayed on. And he made that decision and said he did want me to stay on.
After all, here were all the conservative senators opposed to Rusmfeld: John McCain, Susan Collins, Trent Lott, Chuck Hagel, among others. The senators opposed to Miers? According to the AP:
None of the Senate’s 55 Republican senators have openly opposed Miers.
Why did Bush accept Miers’ resignation but not Rumsfeld’s?
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This is nonsense. You people are allowed to kick and scream over nominees you don’t like, but the governing party is NOT. It doesn’t work that way. Bush better keep his promise and appoint a conservative. AND if he does, I DARE you to fight us on it. It’s a loser for liberals, I will gladly change the subject from Rove to dirty liberal tricks.
You don’t stand a chance with the base united. Bush just saved his presidency and you had nothing to do with it.
October 27th, 2005 at 3:05 pmWhatever NED, Bush is a complete and total wimp. He just got kicked around and finally backed down. Some leader.
October 27th, 2005 at 3:07 pmNeD
“You people are allowed to kick and scream over nominees you don’t like, but the governing party is NOT.”
Bush wouldn’t have this problem if he would fvcking listen to somebody every now and then. He just appoints people as if it doesn’t metter who he picks. Well guess what, it does fvcking matter.
October 27th, 2005 at 3:08 pmyea, and the pressure groups on the Left don’t talk to Feinstein et al on how to proceed. The President made NO bones about what judicial philosopy he wants and won the election so he makes the choice. The Senate can debate the merits. Justice Ginsberg was approved nearly unanimously by both parties and she clearly represented a liberal point of view so let the Senate play out it’s role.
rich, who agrees with Northeast Dilemma on this 100%
October 27th, 2005 at 3:11 pmDilemma,
There will be a hardcore conservative appointed and there will be a fight and a filibuster, count on it. Bush has lost so much credibility and his presidency is in such a free-fall that HE WILL NOT RECOVER. Watch.
October 27th, 2005 at 3:12 pmWhy did Bush accept Miers’ resignation but not Rumsfeld’s?
Well, first of all it’s not a resignation. Second of all I don’t think Rummy really wanted to resign and only offered it up to help Bush. Third I think that Miers may have actually realized she was not up to the job.
That said, McClellan is a lying scumbag.
October 27th, 2005 at 3:13 pmAh, trolls are so wonderful for helping the rest of us get a good laugh on a long day. Once again, thank you for doing your part rich and NeD.
October 27th, 2005 at 3:13 pm“Us” versus “Them”. You like your America that way, don’t you. This is about America – ALL of America, not just one party. But you miss the point. No one is saying or ever said that the right can’t criticize. MANY people on the right hated Mier’s nomination, and I still have not seen a great outpouring of “STFU” about it from the left. The point is that they did not want to give up documents, but that didn’t stop the Roberts nomination from proceeding. And the WH claims that it was Senate pressure that cause Bush to accept the withdrawl, yet past precedent clearly shows that the WH will proceed as it will regardless of Senate opinion. So, “Why did Bush accept Miers’ resignation but not Rumsfeld’s?” The answer the WH gave does not hold water.
October 27th, 2005 at 3:15 pmNoe Indicted!
October 27th, 2005 at 3:18 pmOctober 27th, 2005 at 3:18 pm
Jay – I DARE YOU. The right-wing base will do to you what we just did to Bush.
Accept this – we’re taking the Court back and everythign that comes with. You anti-Christian bigots can move to Canada if you don’t like it. You could always win elections too – lol!!
October 27th, 2005 at 3:19 pmThis just makes Bush look like a moron, which is certainly no great feat. Whomever he nominates now is going to be doubly scrutinized by both the left and right (neither of whom trust him further than they can throw him), and the Dems will have added ammunition because no one can blame them for Miers’s withdrawl.
I will say that in the aftermath of the McCain torture amendment and Bush’s threatend veto, Gonzalez will be a very hard sell.
October 27th, 2005 at 3:19 pmGOP! The Gift That Keeps On Giving! Just Like Herpes!
October 27th, 2005 at 3:20 pmNED, we can’t win elections because we’re not a bunch of money-laundering corporate scandal-ridden mafia-associating law-breaking cover-blowing perjuring obstructing bullies. So clearly we are at a disadvantage, and it has nothing to do with the merits of our point of view.
lol.
October 27th, 2005 at 3:22 pmBush accepted Miers’ withdrawal in order to try to reunite his crony, repub base for support when the Plamegate, DeLay, and Frist scandals hit the fan, saturating he and his administration with the foul BS they’ve tried to serve the American people for years.
Dream on DilEnema.
October 27th, 2005 at 3:22 pmDilemma, I’m not just saying this to be combative. Bush is done. The revolt is happening from inside the circles of power. The Democrats have no power nor do they have any spine, but they didn’t need to do anything. The Bush administration is collapsing under the weight of its own lust for power, its greed and its lies. Mark my words: Bush is DONE.
October 27th, 2005 at 3:23 pmWe didn’t want to win the last election. Now you know why. The GOP was set up, by themselves! They won’t be seeing a conservative century this century. They are toast! kiss my ass!
October 27th, 2005 at 3:25 pmFor the record, NeD- a man(?) who doesn’t stand for his convictions has no right to voice his opinions. Join the NY Guard & come back and chat, Coward.
As for Miers’ withdrawl- I somewhat doubt that it came from Bush himself. I think it really did come from Miers herself, probably prodded by Rove et. al. By all reports, he’s the kind of guy who makes a decision and at that point “It’s in God’s hands”, no matter how stupid the decision. He’ll mollify the base and put up a neocon judge. Get ready for the fireworks.
October 27th, 2005 at 3:25 pmChickenhawk.
October 27th, 2005 at 3:26 pmAccept this – we’re taking the Court back and everythign that comes with. You anti-Christian bigots can move to Canada if you don’t like it. You could always win elections too – lol!!
Comment by The Northeast Dilemma
Sucker! You were played by Bush and the GOP! They don’t want Roe v. Wade overturned, dumbass! You can’t buy a wedge issue like that! It’s worth it’s weight in votes!
October 27th, 2005 at 3:27 pmHey NED? Who hasn’t been indicted in the GOP!
October 27th, 2005 at 3:28 pmGood point Bushass :0
October 27th, 2005 at 3:28 pmIn the marketplace of ideas, Bush has sunk the conservative point of view into junk bond status.
You like your Iraq war, emergency mismanagement, insider trading, corporate scandals, money laundering, and exposing our own WMD covert operatives? Like your debt? Oh, it’s not your debt, it’s your children’s. You like spending other people’s money, especially if those people aren’t old enough or strong enough to fight back.
I see why you support this President, NED. I hope you see why we oppose him, and you.
October 27th, 2005 at 3:28 pmJay – I’ll let you know when Bush is done. You can say this is made from weakness, yada, yada, yada….. No – the nomination of Miers was made of weakness. If Bush and his party want to rebound, they have act like conservatives, not the spineless turncoats that plague your party.
Conservatives stand on values. PERIOD. You people stand on propoganda and hate.
October 27th, 2005 at 3:29 pmI am being censored because I am Bush’s babooned hiney!
October 27th, 2005 at 3:29 pmConservatives stand on values. PERIOD. You people stand on propoganda and hate.
Comment by The Northeast Dilemma
looks to me like they stand on the corpses of their dead comrades other after they knife each other in the back!
October 27th, 2005 at 3:30 pmSucker!
October 27th, 2005 at 3:31 pmWow where are the right wing nut jobs crying about Ms Miers never getting a fair up or down vote? oh that’s right that’s only typical GOP double speak
October 27th, 2005 at 3:34 pmYou can type it all you want DilEnema, but can you back it up in reality?
October 27th, 2005 at 3:35 pmUp or down vote! Up or down vote!
October 27th, 2005 at 3:35 pmNeD-
Your lack of response on the Enlistment issue shows what a coward you are. Sad little man
October 27th, 2005 at 3:36 pm“Conservatives stand on values. PERIOD. ”
Yeah if you value torture, hate, dishonesty, war, and the almighty buck.
The only thing that I value when it comes to political discussion is the truth.
October 27th, 2005 at 3:36 pmConservatives stand on values. PERIOD. !!!!
Until they get indicted! Then they are too scared shitless to even take the stand~!
October 27th, 2005 at 3:36 pmHaha! I forgot about that “up or down vote” crap. Gracias!
October 27th, 2005 at 3:37 pmNed- If you can stand up and join the military, you don’t stand for jack. Chickenhawk. Join the NY Guard.
October 27th, 2005 at 3:37 pmJeebus! Can you imagine having to be a Repunklikan today? I’m glad they control all three branches of government. That won’t happen again for a 100 years!
October 27th, 2005 at 3:38 pmNED? NED? ….. crickets……
October 27th, 2005 at 3:39 pmDilEnema’s colon polyps kept him from joining, right?
October 27th, 2005 at 3:40 pmIt’s a vast left wing conspiracy!
October 27th, 2005 at 3:40 pmMiers was simply unqualified for the job. She had NO EXPERIENCE relevant to the job she was seeking. How many of us out there get a job for which we have no experience? Anybody? A show of hands please? A post to the contrary? Come on, people, the woman was unqualified, therefore she should have been scrutinized to the nth degree. As far as Bush pandering to his base, the people who are whole-heartedly behind sending young men and women to their deaths in Iraq for no reason, but want to protect unwanted babies from the threat of abortion, well how about that. Who would have thunk it?
October 27th, 2005 at 3:41 pmNortheast Dilemma,
Your comments would have weight if Bush was actually a conservative. Have you noticed he hasn’t vetoed a single spending bill since he’s been president? Conservatives usually find a way to trim government, this president has expanded its reach right into your home via the PATRIOT ACT, which is worse than its cousin the 1918 Sedition Act.
October 27th, 2005 at 3:41 pmIt was a pilonoidal cyst that kept the Oxycontin hillbilly out.
October 27th, 2005 at 3:41 pmDilEnema’s searching for the party line…
October 27th, 2005 at 3:41 pmRingo,
Michael Brown ring a bell?
October 27th, 2005 at 3:42 pmHow many of us out there get a job for which we have no experience?
Me! Me!
October 27th, 2005 at 3:42 pm#24 NED:
Conservatives stand on values. PERIOD. You people stand on propoganda and hate.
Stand on values… Hmm… Rove, Libby, Cheney, Bolton, DeLay, Frist, Noe, Abramhoff…
Hell, yeah, NED! Conservatives don’t just stand on values. They WALK on values. They JUMP UP AND DOWN on values. They GRIND values under their elephantine bootheels.
October 27th, 2005 at 3:42 pmhey! We value money and power. Thems values!
October 27th, 2005 at 3:44 pmHey, look! My moral compass is busted!
October 27th, 2005 at 3:46 pmHey Ned — just read your post at top of page. I’m sure you’ve read a couple of these already but… United you stand, NED. And united you shall fall.
See ya in hell, douchebag
October 27th, 2005 at 3:50 pmConsider why Bush nominated her – SHE IS HIS PERSONAL ATTORNEY –
Why would he appoint his personal attorney to the scotus? As protection when he’s on trial in the congress for war crimes –
So why would his “base” deny him this protection?
October 27th, 2005 at 3:50 pmbecause his base is against the iraq war too
“You could always win elections too – lol!!
Comment by The Northeast Dilemma — October 27, 2005 @ 3:19 pm
Lets see how well Ken Blackburn does, shall we? What’s the matter, wheels falling off your party’s agenda and you’re not looking forward to minority status again?
October 27th, 2005 at 3:50 pm“Conservatives stand on values. PERIOD. You people stand on propoganda and hate.”
That is some funny sh!t. I thought BSR and CC were doing good. But, I think you just moved into the number one position for “Stupidest Sh!t Said Today”
October 27th, 2005 at 3:52 pmI suspect someone has something on Bush and they are threatening to expose Bush, or with all the criminal actitivity going on he has to cut deals.
They are saying to Bush, you know what we did to McCain in S.Carolina in 2000, well that’ll look like Sunday school compared to what we’ll say about you. And you made it so easy for us with your past history. Ha, ha, ha..
http://www.bopnews.com/archives/001350.html
This President, if known for nothing else, is known for NOT changing his mind or backing down, right or wrong. Whatever the reason, it must have been REALLY huge… Whatever happened to him having faith?
October 27th, 2005 at 3:56 pmYes, everyone, I know Bush’s inexperienced cronies get the jobs. I was referring to the REAL WORLD and REAL PEOPLE, not Bush’s universe where only the people who he is relatively sure will protect his secrets and son-of-Satan status get hired.
October 27th, 2005 at 4:01 pmRe: Why did Bush accept Miers’ resignation but not Rumsfeld’s?
I think the pool of solid Bush loyalists is limited, especially in the Pentagon.
October 27th, 2005 at 4:01 pmI can hardly wait for the wailing and moaning of “progressives” when we see the next nominee!!!!! Too delicious!! The hysterics and gnashing of teeth by libs – too much fun!!!!
October 27th, 2005 at 4:07 pmI can hardly wait for the wailing and moaning of “progressives†when we see the next nominee!!!!! Too delicious!! The hysterics and gnashing of teeth by libs – too much fun!!!!
Comment by mighty aphrodite
Have you been introduced to Mr.Phil A. Buster
Bush’s weakness on full display
October 27th, 2005 at 4:16 pmwith his own party rallying against Miers, what chance did she have to win? the no-win scenario convinced them all to give up… we can’t blame members of the approval committee for wanting her papers… she wasn’t likely to actually answer any questions when she went in front of them…
October 27th, 2005 at 4:31 pm#56 MA:
I can hardly wait for the wailing and moaning of “progressives†when we see the next nominee!!!!! Too delicious!! The hysterics and gnashing of teeth by libs – too much fun!!!!
I can hardly wait myself! Given Chimpy’s recent track record, I’m guessing it will be a tough decision between the gal who cuts his hair and his favorite college drinking buddy.
October 27th, 2005 at 4:31 pmMighty Medusa,
Have anything substantial or constructive to spew, or would you rather settle at acting like a scared little bitch?
October 27th, 2005 at 4:39 pm“Conservatives stand on values. PERIOD. †NED
That sounds all well and good, but the reality is that’s empty rhetoric. If you truly felt that way, you would stand against/recognize the corruption our own leadership is bursting at the seams with. When are people going to wake up and realize that our loyalty should lie with AMERICANS as a whole, not political parties or empty labels(conservative, liberal, and other such nonsense).
October 27th, 2005 at 4:44 pmI can hardly wait for the wailing and moaning of “progressives†when we see the next nominee!!!!! Too delicious!! The hysterics and gnashing of teeth by libs – too much fun!!!!
Yes, very much fun… except for the very real consequences on our nation. Crippling debt, a drastically weakened geopolitical position, a hamstrung military, and our troops getting chewed up one by one (five by five on a bad day) and now we learn that no, the aluminum tubes were not suitable to make gas centrifuges.
You enjoy that, do you?
October 27th, 2005 at 4:47 pm“Conservatives stand on values. PERIOD. You people stand on propoganda and hate.
Comment by The Northeast Dilemma ”
CONservatives consist of torture, propaganda, exploitation, greed, hatred, bigotry, and selfishness.
Considering I correct your propaganda lies daily with PROOF, you’re not only demonstrating why CONservatives are out of step with america, but you demonstrate why 65% of americans disagree with your policies. You also show why 500k more voters chose Gore over Bush.
Your ‘values’ aren’t popular, and without Diebold, Triad and the hand full of other reichwing owners of fraudulent election machines you’d be whining about the Kerry nominations right now. You’re a stupid propagandist moron, how sad for you and for this great nation that folks like you would rather smear with lies and steal elections than win on their ‘corrupt values’. But then again if you only ran with your values, you’d never win the elections.
October 27th, 2005 at 4:47 pmcynical,
MightyHermaphrodite is a selfish bitch zionist – she doesn’t care about this country. She knows she can always take her loot and move to Israel when they’ve sunk this ship.
October 27th, 2005 at 4:48 pm“Conservatives stand on values. PERIOD. â€
That’s right, the value of your campaign contribution determines your standing in their form of government.
October 27th, 2005 at 4:50 pmThink Progress,
Miers didn’t resign, she withdrew. And that makes all the difference between her and Rumsfeld.
Use your head please.
October 27th, 2005 at 4:51 pmI don’t even think she’s a woman. There are like five or six weasels that troll here. The two janitors from the Federalist urinal, remember them? drop by their site and check out all the traffic, and there are four clowns from Another Rovian Conspiracy, one is a some shyster chick, and they opened up shop because they actually believed Rove was gonna walk and Wilson would get indicted. Fvcking tools! They ain’t been around much lately have they?
October 27th, 2005 at 4:54 pmLyle,
She resigned from her being a nominee. Nice try, but instead try using your own advice next time.
October 27th, 2005 at 4:55 pmUse your head please.
Comment by Lyle
Let’s use yours. It’s hollow,not being used and we can play soccer with it, even though it’s kinda square.
October 27th, 2005 at 4:56 pmThat’s all spin. Krauthammer gave them that exit strategy a few weeks ago, about the documents, bullshit. Frist told Chimpy to pull the plug on it last nite.
October 27th, 2005 at 4:58 pm“Why did Bush accept Miers’ resignation but not Rumsfeld’s? ”
Because it’s not just that Bush is a liar, it’s that he doesn’t believe he has to EVEN TRY to tell the truth about why he pulled the nomination.
All this proves is only what we knew all along, that he’s more the wingnuts’ slave than the country’s leader.
October 27th, 2005 at 5:11 pmPlease don’t confuse the Bush administration with conservatives. Any conservative who identifies with their big-government, save-the-world philosophy should promptly accept a tax increase…
Vote for Resident Bush
http://www.geocities.com/themissingPproject
October 27th, 2005 at 5:20 pmCynical Ex-Hippie – yes, conservatives need campaign cash. We don’t have people like George Soros funding uor election efforts. We have to rely on the people that elected Bush and his party. Unlike liberals, Republicans do not use their base for votes – we’re believers. Liberals are a small group of people with immense wealth and education that exploit the have-nots to get votes. AND considering the base of the party is so desperate, you should be ashamed of yourself for exploiting them.
October 27th, 2005 at 5:28 pmvalues are merely talking points for neocons… you can see from their leadership that they have no morals… they just use those ideas to get elected, because they know their brilliant base will just eat it all up without question…
October 27th, 2005 at 5:30 pm“We don’t have people like George Soros funding uor election efforts. “NedDeadHead
What the fvck?
Guess you’ve never heard of Mellon Scaife (from Mellon bank?). He funded all of the trash against clinton. And lets not forget the Walmart retards, or Rupert Murdoch, or any number of reichwing millionaires and billionaires. You’re a MORON!
October 27th, 2005 at 5:44 pmThe rightwingnuts have lost all of their talking points, thanks to King George, the boy king of amurkin politics.
He would not allow an up or down vote on Miers, so his next nutjob will not get an up or down vote.
The other talking point is “litmus test”. The same litmus test will be held against the next nutjob that bushie boy chooses.
He is done in all circles. The rightwingnut jobbers dont want anything to do with him anymore and that is his 39% base.
Mainstream amurka wouldnt have him on a bet. He is too dirty for them, and is excess baggage.
October 27th, 2005 at 5:49 pmAnybody who supports a bunch of rich Ivy leaguers who never worked a day in their lives and were too cowardly
October 27th, 2005 at 5:52 pmto serve their country during Vietnam and will not send their kids to get their limbs blown off in a useless,senseless war, is certifiably crazy.That lying,
crooked bunch of Halliburton toadies in Washington are an absolute disgrace.Meanwhile, the guy who killed 3,00
of our people right here in this country is still alive
in Afghanistan laughing his ass off at the stupid, crooked bunch of moral and physical cowards that think they are the new royalty. Their motto is “Send him, not me.He don’t count like I do.”
Like the old three war Marine Gunery Sgt, said, ” If you aint been there, shut up.” I been there.Mr.Stupid
Bush supporter, have you.I got thirteen years, three
years active, ten Reserve.
Signed: I Been There.
Northeast Dilemma – I hope I proved to you today that I’m your b#$ch, and yours alone… can I take off my leash tonight for just a bit? My neck’s beginning to chafe.
- the preznit
October 27th, 2005 at 6:04 pmShame on the Republicans for Borking their own nominee. Shows how sexist they really are, going after Miers for her “1993 speech” where she spoke in favor of women’s rights (ooohh, scary). Shows their true color doesn’t it?
And shows what a weakling puppet our country’s commander-in-chief is as well.
October 27th, 2005 at 6:09 pmNED says:
“conservatives need campaign cash. We don’t have people like George Soros funding uor election efforts. We have to rely on the people that elected Bush and his party.”
Dude…all you guys can come up with is George Soros! You guys never shut up about one billionaire who actually gives a hoot about issues that effect all Americans. Seriously, can you guys come up with anybody else? Too much talk radio and Fox news for you. Here is the facts. We are a party for all Americans, not just special interests and the radical far right…we speak for all. You guys are the party of the corporations, you guys get millions and millions of dollars from all kinds of corporations BUT especially the energy corporations. For example:
In 2005-2006 the Republican party recieved $4,245,065, while the democratic party recieved $1,645,081 from the energy and natural resource industries. It’s about 3/1 ratio. And its like that for the healthcare, agriculture, Real estate, retail, finance, communications, etc. The fact of the matter is, that the republican party is stuffed with campaign contributions from big bussiness! (Political Money Line http://www.tray.com/cgi-win/x_sic.exe?DoFn= )
On top of all the oil money and special interests you have all the the wealthy fundraisers, especially from states like Texas. The thing you don’t realize, which you completely miss…is that the Republican party is a ideological party which favours the fortunate. Thats why they gave huge tax cuts to the wealthy and why they line the pockets of the oil industry with tax cuts. They are not a party of morals, they are a party that MAKES you think they are while they support policies that hurt the average person.
October 27th, 2005 at 6:40 pmWhat I’m saying is they are a party that uses morales to make their friends rich. Simple as that.
October 27th, 2005 at 6:42 pmCynical Ex-Hippie – yes, conservatives need campaign cash. We don’t have people like George Soros funding uor election efforts. We have to rely on the people that elected Bush and his party. Unlike liberals, Republicans do not use their base for votes – we’re believers. Liberals are a small group of people with immense wealth and education that exploit the have-nots to get votes. AND considering the base of the party is so desperate, you should be ashamed of yourself for exploiting them.
Comment by The Northeast Dilemma
What a fvckin’ moran!
October 27th, 2005 at 6:46 pmJeremy, of course, is exactly right. My only true question is, do these so-called conservatives (the wingnuts that grace these threads) actually believe the lies and the spin that the Limbaugh/Hannity machine feed them or do they knowingly perpetrate this massive charade for more selfish reasons?
I would love to know the answer to that question. Help me out CC, I-R-I, Dilemma, et al.
October 27th, 2005 at 6:57 pmI can tell you where the Republican party is ACTUALLY getting most of its campaign money (guess what… NOT Average Joe Republican)… CORPORATE DONATIONS/LOBBYISTS, and the WEALTHY (TAX CUTS).
That is the actual base of the party besides EVANGELICAL Christians… which the Republican’s claim is part of their base and USES them for votes. Don’t believe me? Go to church (I did) and I have yet to find a church that isn’t using the pulpit to promote this administration politically and to defend them.
Last night, I went with a friend to church (she is Christian) and was VERY disappointed to hear the pastor belittle the Valerie Plame investigation while at the same time re-interating how important TRUTH is. I was EXTEREMELY disappointed to hear such DISHONESTY at the pulpit, but it proves what I have believed for awhile now… the Republican party is using Church as a way to get votes.
October 27th, 2005 at 7:00 pm#74
You are so right!
October 27th, 2005 at 7:16 pm#84 Jay,
That IS the question isn’t it? I would like hear some answers to that as well.
My views are directly influenced by my own life experiences, research, and paying attention to the world around me. That’s why I find it so hard to understand how people like NED, Concerned Conservative, etc… can repeat the message over and over again without noticing that it often conflicts with the reality of the situation. Can’t people put aside their PRIDE and accept REALITY when it presents itself?
October 27th, 2005 at 7:22 pm#85
So the Revs. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are not allowed to speak in churches anymore?
October 27th, 2005 at 7:23 pmJay,
I could turn the question around the other way, how can liberals continue to believe the lies spread by Franken, Rhodes and the liberal spectrum of the MSM?
October 27th, 2005 at 7:25 pm#74 & #86
Below is an incomplete list of Right-Wing/Conservative Fundraisers (many raise/donate multiple millions to Republican PACs, right wing groups and grants) – source: http://www.mediatransparency.com
-Allegheny Foundation
October 27th, 2005 at 7:30 pm-Armstrong Foundation
-Barre Seid Foundation
-Bill and Berniece Grewcock Foundation
-Castle Rock Foundation
-Charles G. Koch Charitable Foundation
-Charlotte and Walter Kohler Charitable Trust
-Claude R. Lambe Charitable Foundation
-David H. Koch Charitable Foundation
-Earhart Foundation
-F.M. Kirby Foundation
-Gilder Foundation
-Gordon and Mary Cain Foundation
-Hickory Foundation
-Jaquelin Hume Foundation
-JM Foundation
-John M. Olin Foundation, Inc.
-John Templeton Foundation
-Orville D. and Ruth A. Merillat Foundation
-Philip M. McKenna Foundation, Inc.
-Randolph Foundation
-Richard and Helen DeVos Foundation
-Rodney Fund
-Roe Foundation
-Ruth and Lovett Peters Foundation
-Samuel Roberts Noble Foundation
-Sarah Scaife Foundation
-Scaife Family Foundation
-Shelby Cullom Davis Foundation
-Smith Richardson Foundation
-The Carthage Foundation
-The Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation, Inc.
-W.H. Brady Foundation
-Walton Family Foundation
-William E. Simon Foundation
-William H. Donner Foundation
Randy,
What specifically did either of those gentleman say at church prompt this question?
October 27th, 2005 at 7:30 pmWhen did I insinuate anyone should not be allowed to speak in church?
#89
October 27th, 2005 at 7:33 pmYou shouldn’t make assumptions as to where people get their information from. Some of us actually do quite a bit of reading and research on our own (outside of talk radio, television and partisan websites). Ever heard of LexisNexis?
Darn it, I posted too quickly.
Randy,
Can you give a specific example of a lie that Al Franken, Rhandi Rhodes, etc… are currently promoting?
I don’t have a problem with putting people to task for lying and if it can be proven, they should apologize and publically correct what was said.
October 27th, 2005 at 7:34 pmRandy, NED, Concerned Conservative, and ALL others… please respond to my posts. I am very interested in discussing these topics. I will be checking this thread later tonight when I get home so I will be interested to see your posts.
October 27th, 2005 at 7:44 pmM. Duchamp,
Thank you for doing some research on the issue and sharing your findings… it is appreciated.
October 27th, 2005 at 7:46 pm#93
Here is just one example- she recently claimed that Bush had gone back to drinking when there is no definitive proof that was the case. She was speculating based on his appearance. To put it mildly, Bush has alot going on these days. We are a nation at war with an enemy that wants to kill us here. I know you and many of your liberal buddies would rather forget that and have things go back to the way they were under the Clinton years, but that is not going to happen. So he if he looks a litte ragged these days, its for a good reason – protecting you and me from the terrorists. So show me the proof that he is drinking again. You or Randi don’t have it of course but even if you did what difference would that make?
October 27th, 2005 at 7:57 pm#96
October 27th, 2005 at 8:09 pmRandi does not speak for all liberals, just as Hannity, O’Reilly, et al don’t speak for all conservatives. You’re making assumptions that we are in agreement with these people. Your assumption (giant leap) is made to win an argument, and for one, it’s not working, and two, it’s an assumption that is just not true nor can it be proved.
When you boil down the Hannity radio show, and particularly the Limbaugh show as well, by subtracting all the advertising time, the intro time, the bumper music, the rhetorical repeating of the same point over and over, there is really not that much left, and that of little probity.
I cannot believe how anti-intellectual they and this administration are.
October 27th, 2005 at 8:15 pm“So he if he looks a litte ragged these days, its for a good reason – protecting you and me from the terrorists. So show me the proof that he is drinking again. You or Randi don’t have it of course but even if you did what difference would that make?”
Would that be the same terrorists that Reagan and BushI recruited, funded and trained to fight russians?
Seems like republicans keep making americans deal with every mess they make, and continually blame democrats for those messes. You’re such an idiot randy!
October 27th, 2005 at 8:21 pmMost administrations have some turnover after the end of their first term, to bring in some new blood and help the burned out and underpaid old staffers get on with their lives.
If the Administration looks a little ragged, this is no surprised, the folks in there are getting a little winded to still be in this game.
As for terrorism, is is just like the wasteful spending and bloated government Bush promised to cut out this week.
How many years of a republican congress and a republican administration have we had?
And there is still all this big government, waste, and fat?
How the hell did that happen? Liberals?
HaHaHaHaHa!
October 27th, 2005 at 8:43 pm#98 (Andrew) – Those right wingers will never be able to hold a candle to YOU intellectually!!! Just ask Joe sixPACK.
October 27th, 2005 at 8:47 pm#96 – Randy: “Randi Rhodes said Bush drinks. Where’s the proof?!”
That’s all you got? You really are in bad shape …
October 27th, 2005 at 8:53 pmHere is just one example- she recently claimed that Bush had gone back to drinking when there is no definitive proof that was the case. She was speculating based on his appearance. To put it mildly, Bush has alot going on these days. We are a nation at war with an enemy that wants to kill us here. I know you and many of your liberal buddies would rather forget that and have things go back to the way they were under the Clinton years, but that is not going to happen. So he if he looks a litte ragged these days, its for a good reason – protecting you and me from the terrorists. So show me the proof that he is drinking again. You or Randi don’t have it of course but even if you did what difference would that make?
Comment by Randy
Blow it out yer ass, dickwad! Bush ain’t yer daddy, is he?
October 27th, 2005 at 9:02 pmJay,
I could turn the question around the other way, how can liberals continue to believe the lies spread by Franken, Rhodes and the liberal spectrum of the MSM?
Comment by Randy — October 27, 2005 @ 7:25 pm
What a moron.
October 27th, 2005 at 9:05 pm#84 Jay,
That IS the question isn’t it? I would like hear some answers to that as well.
My views are directly influenced by my own life experiences, research, and paying attention to the world around me. That’s why I find it so hard to understand how people like NED, Concerned Conservative, etc… can repeat the message over and over again without noticing that it often conflicts with the reality of the situation. Can’t people put aside their PRIDE and accept REALITY when it presents itself?
Comment by Catalyst for Change — October 27, 2005 @ 7:22 pm
Some of these troglodytes are just that stupid, others are that corrupt and dishonest and don’t give a shit. The only catalyst that will change them is a bullet in the brain. If you don’t have the stomach for that, go for the ballot in the box and try talking to the true independents and fence sitters, although most of those have already left the Bush camp. These are the harcore 30% that would rather die than switch. Let’s help ‘em out.
October 27th, 2005 at 9:13 pmI hope Karl Rove resigns then he can have more time to spend with Jeff Gannon (Gucket)
October 27th, 2005 at 9:34 pmWhy did Bush accept Miers’ resignation and not Rummy’s — because he’s afraid of the insane Dr. Strangelove?
October 27th, 2005 at 9:34 pmThe Senate was fixing to investigate the Ben Barnes – G-Tech connection. Barnes was the Lt Governor who helped * weasel into the Air National Guard. As a thank-you, he became a lobbyist for G-Tech, which was operating the Texas Lottery when Harry was Chairperson of the Lottery Commission.
One of the employees of G-Tech (Lawrence Littwin) started probing this, was fired, sued, and took a big settlement in exchange to keep quiet about it.
Had the nomination gone foreward, the Senate would have opened it up. W did not want this at all. Now it will not be re-opened. Neat!
October 27th, 2005 at 9:38 pmBush is an idiot who was installed in one election and stole the other one with the aid of Deibold.The shit has finally hit the the fan!This bible beating,money grubbing,war mongering,chicken shit,chicken hawk administration is finally getting its due,and none too soon.Bush is done and his ass-hole buddies are nuked.The term,”neo-con”will be synonymous with ,”abject failure”,in the ears of mainstream American voters for the next fifty years.The Public is finally aware of just how much these guys SUCK!
October 27th, 2005 at 10:10 pmThe same reason that bush demoted Karpinski for not condoning torture.
October 28th, 2005 at 9:39 amHere is just one example- she recently claimed that Bush had gone back to drinking when there is no definitive proof that was the case. She was speculating based on his appearance. To put it mildly, Bush has alot going on these days. We are a nation at war with an enemy that wants to kill us here. I know you and many of your liberal buddies would rather forget that and have things go back to the way they were under the Clinton years, but that is not going to happen. So he if he looks a litte ragged these days, its for a good reason – protecting you and me from the terrorists. So show me the proof that he is drinking again. You or Randi don’t have it of course but even if you did what difference would that make?
Comment by Randy
Randy,
I have heard Rhandi make these claims. Do I believe it? I don’t know… if I was in their position though, I might get thirsty sometimes too. Either way, its a baseless claim on her part. Can you give me a POLICY related LIE? I hear that same kind of rhetoric on conservative talk shows as well and have no patience for this kind of crap.
We are a nation at war with TERRORIST ORGANIZATIONS, but instead of focusing on that when it mattered most (9/11), our resources and energy were directed to Iraq. So in our fight to eliminate terrorists, we have instead formed a breeding ground of yet unmeasured proportion. So claiming that “my liberal buddies” and I don’t “get it” is really inaccurate as we just want the war to be focused on the real enemy.
Thanks for responding Randy… you are one of the few that have bothered to debate this with me and I appreciate it. I think you will find that actually discussing these issues will open up new ways of solving the problems our country is facing instead of focusing on ‘liberals are the enemy/conservatives are the enemy’ mindsets. That is what our country, our troops, our families REALLY need… to stick togther and not allow our gov’t to act inappropriately in our name.
October 28th, 2005 at 12:58 pm“My views are directly influenced by my own life experiences, research, and paying attention to the world around me. That’s why I find it so hard to understand how people like NED, Concerned Conservative, etc… can repeat the message over and over again without noticing that it often conflicts with the reality of the situation…..” Cat Change
THIS explains the difficulty of libs to argue intelligently!!! Anecdotal evidence is NOT universal and “feelings ain’t facts”. This explains how whiny libs shriek about the tax cuts for the wealthy and REFUSE to acknowledge the benefit such cuts have on the economy as a whole – look who PAYS the mammoth sum of taxes and say “thank you!”
“I can tell you where the Republican party is ACTUALLY getting most of its campaign money (guess what… NOT Average Joe Republican)… CORPORATE DONATIONS/LOBBYISTS, and the WEALTHY (TAX CUTS).” – Cat Change
And where oh where did you get this info?? Did it just feel right as you typed along??? Or did that fact crop up in the neo-con sermon at your “friends” Bible Belt church??? If you check with the Federal Election Commission, you might take note that the VAST number of contributors to the Repubs are NOT as you CLAIM!!! But I’m sure your anecdotal evidence supports your premise.
October 28th, 2005 at 2:00 pmThis biggest reason for this news is to take time and focus away from the Patrick Fitzgerald grand jury investigation and the indictments of Libby and the notion that possible many more are to come. Fitzgerald 4 benevolent dictator!
October 28th, 2005 at 2:41 pm“THIS explains the difficulty of libs to argue intelligently!!! Anecdotal evidence is NOT universal and “feelings ain’t factsâ€. This explains how whiny libs shriek about the tax cuts for the wealthy and REFUSE to acknowledge the benefit such cuts have on the economy as a whole – look who PAYS the mammoth sum of taxes and say “thank you!—
I want EVERYONE to pay their fair share of the tax burden, and that is not happening. Why should I say thank you as its our responsibility as citizens of this country to pay those taxes. How many AMERICAN corporations are managing to avoid taxes by having off-shore addresses as their base of operations? Why are we giving corporate welfare to the oil companies when they are not having any profit problems? Do you feel the need to claim all “liberals” are certain way? I could say the same thing and just insert “conservative, democrats, republicans”, etc… in place of liberals and it would be just as false a statement.
“And where oh where did you get this info?? Did it just feel right as you typed along??? If you check with the Federal Election Commission, you might take note that the VAST number of contributors to the Repubs are NOT as you CLAIM!!! But I’m sure your anecdotal evidence supports your premise.”
You are right to request I check my facts… that is something I respect and I will do so to verify which claim is accurate. I suspect I will find the truth lies in-between our positions.
“Or did that fact crop up in the neo-con sermon at your “friends†Bible Belt church???”
No, the sermon at the church did not cover tax policy. What is the point of this statement and the quotes around friend’s?
October 28th, 2005 at 2:56 pmCat Change – Something we CAN agree on: “I want EVERYONE to pay their fair share of the tax burden, and that is not happening.”
I want corporations, the wealthy, middle class and poor to all pay their FAIR share. The “fairest way” would be a FLAT tax – but many of my DemFriends oppose that solution – no day is complete without punishing the RICH!!!
Tip for the day – develope a sense of humour – the quotation marks around the word “friend” is merely a demonstration that the majority of Dem friends dislike religious people for their supposed ignorance and superstition. Most of my atheist and agnostic friends do NOT support Repubs and many members of the “religious Left” (Unitarians, Religious Humanists, United Church of Christ, et al.) seek “social justice” by picking the pockets (MORE than they already do!) of the rest of us.
October 28th, 2005 at 4:19 pmTip for the day – develope a sense of humour – the quotation marks around the word “friend†is merely a demonstration that the majority of Dem friends dislike religious people for their supposed ignorance and superstition. Most of my atheist and agnostic friends do NOT support Repubs and many members of the “religious Left†(Unitarians, Religious Humanists, United Church of Christ, et al.) seek “social justice†by picking the pockets (MORE than they already do!) of the rest of us.
Comment by mighty aphrodite — October 28, 2005 @ 4:19 pm
Mighty Aphrodite,
Thanks for the tip, but I do have a sense of humor. I just didn’t realize you were making a joke… its not as obvious as you think. :)
And I am glad to see we have found common ground even if our particular way of carrying out the policy differs. I don’t believe a flat tax is universally fair as the burden it places on an individual/family still is uneven depending upon your financial situation. Since I believe that the more successful you are, thanks to the opportunities this country provides, the greater your share of the tax burden becomes to make sure those same opportunities exists for others to follow in your footsteps. That does not seem unfair for our society as a whole, but I would like more opinions on this… anyone want to jump in(either side of the fence) and share their 2 cents?
October 28th, 2005 at 5:06 pm“Thanks for the tip, but I do have a sense of humor.”
*** Boy, I’m glad to hear THAT – ’cause you sure fooled me!!
“I don’t believe a flat tax is universally fair as the burden it places on an individual/family still is uneven depending upon your financial situation. Since I believe that the more successful you are, thanks to the opportunities this country provides, the greater your share of the tax burden becomes to make….”
***Arguing with “your beliefs” is like arging with “your feelings” – there’s no point as EVERYONE has beliefs or feelings. Again, a “feeling isn’t a fact – unless you’re a liberal.” I have a suggestion for all of you sensitive, “fairness minded” libs (should you ever win an election or launch a revolution.) Why not mandate that stores and services charge different prices for the wealthy and uber-wealthy and give everything away free to the poor!! Levelling that uneven and unfair playing field could take place in no time!!!
October 28th, 2005 at 5:18 pmThat is a pretty extreme conversion of my point, isn’t it? Not only that, but your BELIEF that a flat tax is the “fairest way” is no different from my own argument. And what is wrong with social justice anyway as its one of the things that has made this country GREAT!
It seems like your more interested in attacking liberals in general than trying to work WITH them to solve the problems our country faces… based on this current discussion at least.
October 28th, 2005 at 6:27 pmWhat made this country great is FREEDOM!!!!! You donate to your pet causes and I’ll donate to mine….
October 28th, 2005 at 6:56 pmI can agree with that as well. Chat with you later! :)
October 28th, 2005 at 7:08 pmAss Thick Ass Babes Kick Ass
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
March 29th, 2008 at 1:51 pmdebt buster
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