BREAKING: Five-count Indictment On I. Lewis Libby
By on Oct 28th, 2005 at 12:46 pm
BREAKING: Five-count Indictment On I. Lewis Libby
Obstruction of justice, giving false statements, perjury.
UPDATE: Details on dates from the Washington Monthly via CNN –
False statements on October 14 and September 27, 2003
Perjury on March 5, March 24, 2004.
Obstruction of justice in Spring 2003.
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October 28th, 2005 at 12:46 pmIs this the end, or is Rove rolling over?
October 28th, 2005 at 12:48 pmConcerned Conservative,
You have lost the bet. I will blog with you again around Christmas time. Thanks for honoring your end of the deal (no aliaaes now ;)
October 28th, 2005 at 12:49 pmThe vice president revealed Valerie Plames identity to Libby and the investigation is going on? This is baaaaad news.
October 28th, 2005 at 12:52 pmMerry Ftizmas!
October 28th, 2005 at 12:54 pmIt’s just beginning!
http://www.nytimes.com/ 2005/ 10/ 28/ politics/ 28niger.html
October 28th, 2005 at 12:54 pmYes! The house of cards begins it’s ungainly collapse…….please let it happen now!
October 28th, 2005 at 12:57 pmNow THIS is what I call a tipping point!
October 28th, 2005 at 1:00 pmFitzgerald got Libby on perjury and false statements. So there was no original crime committed? Bullshit charges!
October 28th, 2005 at 1:01 pmRandy, the investigation is still going on, that can’t be good news, that means there is still more to this story. What was Libby trying to hide is the question.
October 28th, 2005 at 1:04 pm#9 Did you feel that way when Clinton was Impeached? I would bet not!
There is a clear crime here, unlike the Clinton saga. How can you live with yourself? A crime is a crime, not just a charge because you feel that your party does not deserve to be charged for the crime they commit.
It does not matter if it was the actual crime or during the investigation, if a crime is committed then it’s a crime. PERIOD
October 28th, 2005 at 1:05 pm#9
October 28th, 2005 at 1:06 pmLike the Clinton circus (yeah, I brought it up first this time)? Impeach because he perjured over a consentual affair? And did you miss that the investigation is STILL ONGOING? That means that there are probably other things to happen. But, according to you, it is O.K. to lie under oath - that is lying to the court and lying to God (you righties are Christians, right? The oath is “before God”, right?). Well, yeah, you’re right - lying under oath is a BS charge. You should be able to lie all you want under oath.
Perjury is a crime, Randy.
October 28th, 2005 at 1:07 pmSo you got your indictments. Libby lied under oath and obstructed justice. No outing of CIA agent. No WMD myths you thought you had. UM - I don’t think this is that big of a win. Considering the left didn’t find perjury a crime when Clinton was President, I doubt you’ll get very far on this one.
October 28th, 2005 at 1:09 pmRandy, you know they all lied. You know that they knew those documents were forgeries. You know it. It is so obvious anyone can see it. You can’t sugar coat it or try to pretend it is something it isn’t. They have just been found out - something we all knew would happen eventually.
Again, you know these charges aren’t bullshit. You know it says something about how these people operate. Any defense you have is just nonsense and petty justification for your vote. You would have to be actually in love with these folks to believe anything but the fact that they have lied. And not about sex.
If this were Clinton, especially Hillary, what would you say? Be honest with yourself for once and tell me - what would you say about ole’ Hil? C’mon.
October 28th, 2005 at 1:09 pmUhmmm…Randy,
Perhaps if Mr. Lewis didn’t OBSTRUCT justice, justice would be served for the crime committed. As it is, the crime commited cannot be charged because Mr. Libby chose to OBSTRUCT the investigation into the crime.
Get a clue.
October 28th, 2005 at 1:09 pmPP - I would want Hillary to resign. AND I want Libby to resign. But, it doesn’t change the fact that we need fight and win this war. AND that’s what you people want and you will NOT get it.
October 28th, 2005 at 1:10 pmHopefully Rove will be next. The dominoes are falling.
October 28th, 2005 at 1:11 pmPerjury is a crime, as is obstruction of justice and making false statements. At least one (OFFICIALLY ELECTED) President has been impeached because of some of the above.
In my predictions of Libby I was 2 for 3. I still think there is a conspiricy charge hanging around.
Libby knows where all the bodies are buried, and this makes crash-cart very uneasy. rover on the other hand seems to have thrown libby under the bus to save his own worthless hyde.
rover is still going to be indicted, as is crash-cart, card and dumbya.
MERRY FREEKIN FITZMAS!
P.S.: A nickname like “scooter” is probably a liability in prison.
October 28th, 2005 at 1:13 pmP.S.S.: Libby just resigned. (like the letter wasn’t drafted Thursday)
and miers couldn’t be confirmed what with the target letter hanging out of her purse.
October 28th, 2005 at 1:16 pm#20 — Perjury is more than a crime. It’s a felony, and Libby’s looking at serious time in a federal pen.
It’s important to remember that people commit perjury because they’re trying to hide something. That really undercuts the wingnuts claiming that this is no big deal — the very fact that Libby committed perjury, and that Rove’s in danger of being charged with perjury too, means they were impeding an investigation with which they should have been cooperating, had they done nothing wrong.
October 28th, 2005 at 1:22 pmRyan - read the content of my post before you go on the attack you moron. If she was indicted, she would resign.
Now here’s the thing Mr. Neat. This indictment is going to cost you in the form of a very conservative Court nominee. If Bush defies the base and appoints a softy, I will feed him to you wolves. If he gives me what I want - a hard right nominee - I will take the White House’s marching orders.
SO you got your indictments - that 6 months to year tops of bad press. The Supreme Court is FOREVER.
October 28th, 2005 at 1:25 pmOh, and NeD,
In order for lying to be perjury, one critical factor has to be in place: the lying has to be relevant to the case.
When Clinton lied, it was in the context of the Paula Jones lawsuit. Lewinsky took place long after Paula Jones. Since something that happens after the alleged crime in question, by legal definition, can’t be relevant to the case in terms of establishing a pattern of behavior (why else bring it into the lawsuit), then Clinton’s lying, by definition, wasn’t perjury.
Even were the above not true, the comparison between lying to cover up an embarrassing affair and lying to cover up outing a NOC and leaking classified information deliberately is night and day, which you’d see were your primary goal not defending Republicans.
October 28th, 2005 at 1:25 pm#14
October 28th, 2005 at 1:25 pmThe.. investigation.. is.. ongoing. That means it is not done. And what is this all about “winning”? This is not a sports game. This is our government and country. You seem to care less whether crimes have been committed by people in office than you do about “winning”.
#24 - agreed. Clinton lied about Lewinsky because he was trying to cover up the fact that he was sexual predator….
October 28th, 2005 at 1:25 pmNeD,
The Supreme Court isn’t forever. Given who would be nominated, it’s around 30 years, tops (assuming no impeachments).
Plus, neither Scalia nor Thomas will be around nearly that long.
Nothing lasts forever, NeD. Not even the current sickness of right wing extremism in this country.
October 28th, 2005 at 1:26 pmNeD,
October 28th, 2005 at 1:27 pmPlease read my subsequent comments, then read Joe Conason’s “The Hunting Of The President”.
NeD, these crooks fraudulantly got us into this war and now should leave and let experienced people take charge.
You say we need to fight and win. We should not be there. If Bush told the truth we wouldn’t be there at all. We are there and that is a fact. But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t uphold the laws of our land. The law is the law, right? So yes, we do understand that we are in Iraq. But what to do next is the problem. We don’t have anyone preparing an exit strategy and we have hacks running the show. It is making it worse, not better. So, we understand. We understand that we need to get some intelligence working on Iraq and not a bunch of monkeys.
Look, if I screw up at work over and over again and lie to boss, I’m fired. So…
October 28th, 2005 at 1:28 pmJohn - yes, but Clinton and fellow liberals were the folks who advanced using one’s personal life as fodder for sexual harrassment claims.
Libby did something dumb. He should have kept his trap shut and just attack Wilson as the liar he is. AND he will be dealt with. But, we’re still at war and that’s not going to change.
October 28th, 2005 at 1:29 pmSee NeD, you are just like Bush. Quid Pro Quo and that’s all. That is sad. Give me what I want? How about what most of America wants? You are selfish.
October 28th, 2005 at 1:30 pmPP - same old story….. If Bush lied so did Clinton, Kerry, Gore, Hillary, Boxer, Albright…. need I go on??? IF you want to re-fight the reasons for war you will LOSE. We’re there because Congress approved it and Bush had the courage to take the fight to the enemy.
October 28th, 2005 at 1:32 pm#31, please don’t engage the trolls. They are paid by the WH to try to disrupt things. Kinda like monica was too.
If they were actually people that wanted a discussion, you could reason with them and educate them. Thus “fix their stupidity”.
Nor east dimentia is not worth your time.
I don’t even read the posts until I see the poster. I realize that nor east dimentia is only ONE of it’s handles, but it works very well.
October 28th, 2005 at 1:33 pmPP - America wants a more conservative Court. That’s for damn sure. AND this politics - leave your conscience at the door. You people have no problem doing that.
October 28th, 2005 at 1:33 pmryan - settle down - go back and read all of #15 and try again…
October 28th, 2005 at 1:35 pmMost Americans are pro choice, and since that is your litmus test for the bench, you refuse to care about the majority of your countrymen. You know this system is based on majority. You keep spouting about it when referring to “your” winning politically.
The neocons have used Bush like a tool and a tool he has become. You bought your way in with money and not with sincerity and good ideas The greedy republicans NEED for money, because they can’t beat anyone without having 10 times the amount (any freakin way they can steal or launder it, mind you) that other candidates do.
See, you can only buy your way in but what you lose is much more than money. The people are seeing how “you” got to be where you are and they ain’t happy about it. Money doesn’t buy everything and nothing lasts forever, NeD.
October 28th, 2005 at 1:36 pmWe all know we were lied into this war. The American people are finally waking up!
The pro war people have to pay their protesters now! What a funny thing to have to do. Of course you still have the people that would follow dumbya off a cliff in a car, but they are stupid and have no original thoughts of their own. Sheeple.
What is great: When Fitz starts, he tips his hand one card at a time (card….can you say andy card had a 12 hour head start to clean up their WH mess)….he frys the smaller ones, and goes carefully up the ladder ONE STEP (OR PERP) AT A TIME.
Merry Fitzmas every one! It’s a wonderful life!!
October 28th, 2005 at 1:38 pmLying to get what you want is not courageous, it is trickery. It doesn’t take courage to think that your way is right no matter what you have to do to convince others. If he were right, he wouldn’t have needed to lie. Don’t you ever wonder why he needed to lie? If he had such good ideas why was he not honest? It seems as though those who are going to die should be told why.
Taking the fight to them? Form your own words, please.
October 28th, 2005 at 1:41 pmWonder if more bodies will turn up when the trial begins? You know like a spotlight on things like, WMD, ’sexing up the facts for war’, corruption.
If the WH thought that there was nothing wrong with TREASON, then dumbya wouldn’t have hired his own lawyer in June 2003.
Besides, remember that rover was a WH intern during Watergate, dumbsfailed was in on it in the 70’s, and who was in the CIA back then…. Oh YES dumbya’s daddy. Same people screwing you now as then.
October 28th, 2005 at 1:42 pmPP - my litmus test is not abortion. Most Americans support parental consent and reasonable restrictions. I also support religous freedom - I don’t find Christmas trees offensive like most liberals.
AND no, it’s not trickery. Bush’s biggest issue was appointing judges in the mold of Thomas and Scalia. If I sat back and let him go soft, I would be lying. You got it wrong.
Presidents never get in trouble for being conservative. They get in trouble when they do liberal things. PP - you are the ideological minority. I am not.
October 28th, 2005 at 1:45 pmDumbya was sure smirking on the way from the copter to the WH…..wonder if that was just a buzz wearing off??? That swagger is probably just a stagger.
October 28th, 2005 at 1:46 pmRyan - polls mean very little.
October 28th, 2005 at 1:48 pmRyan- “Scooter” should be put in jail just for keeping a nickname he got in band camp. That’s the real crime, MAN! Stop with the “Scooter”, it’s Lewis…someone stop them before it’s too late!!
October 28th, 2005 at 1:49 pmYou suppose dumbya is looking under his desk these days for WMD>?
Find it interesting that ‘forged’ docs were used to distract from dumbya’s AWOL issue, and ‘forged’ docs were used to try to justify the war?
Stolen letterhead for forged docs…..Didn’t rover pose as a volunteer just to steal letter head from a political opponent and forge invites and give them to prostitutes and drunks on skid row to disrupt a fundraiser?
And now we have stolen letterhead and forged Niger docs…. same trick, same old dogs….
October 28th, 2005 at 1:50 pm#
PP - I would want Hillary to resign. AND I want Libby to resign. But, it doesn’t change the fact that we need fight and win this war. AND that’s what you people want and you will NOT get it.
Comment by The Northeast Dilemma — October 28, 2005 @ 1:10 pm
Well then- go fight it and win it, instead of anonymously beating a War Drum within a blog on the internet. YOU ARE A CHICKENHAWK.
October 28th, 2005 at 1:54 pmBush had the courage to take the fight to the enemy.
Comment by The Northeast Dilemma — October 28, 2005 @ 1:32 pm
You sure don’t, Coward.
October 28th, 2005 at 1:56 pmBawwwk, baaawwwkk, baawwwkkk!!!!
October 28th, 2005 at 1:59 pmWho’s paying NED $60 an hour?
October 28th, 2005 at 1:59 pmIf Liberals are so good at connecting the dots, then why can’t they figure out that Clinton is a serial rapist? If you believe Clinton for his word and we all know that he lied, then that means that every woman that he attacked is lying. Doesn’t seem plausible does it? I agree with NED, getting an indictment on a perjury charge here will mean about as much to the Bush administration as Clinton’s charge did to his.
October 28th, 2005 at 2:00 pmJParker - I don’t have to serve in the military to have an opinion. I don’t slander the troops over Gitmo on a daily basis like liberals do so I do the little I can to support the troops.
October 28th, 2005 at 2:00 pmIn addition, I want Libby to resign now, something that Clinton should have done.
October 28th, 2005 at 2:01 pmRandy - you’re right. While obstruction of justice is a serious charge, no second term is complete without one.
October 28th, 2005 at 2:02 pmRANDY - it’s so much fun watching liberals shoot themselves in the foot. This indictment is at least worth a Sam Alito appointment to the Court.
Now that liberals have slandered Bush’s aides, he needs his base. So, a Harriet Miers type nominee won’t do…. LOL!!!
October 28th, 2005 at 2:03 pmbaawwkk, clinton, baaawwwkkkk, rapist, baaawwwkkk!!!!
October 28th, 2005 at 2:05 pm#57
I guess there’s no denying it, is there?
October 28th, 2005 at 2:07 pmDo you even know any military people, NeD? Does it even matter to you that they put themselves on the line whether they support the President’s policies or not? One of my best friends is an ER doc in Baghdad, and I’ll tell you right now that you don’t speak for him. He’s away form his two children for two years, blood up to his elbows in wounded soldiers everyday. And he’s doing doing his duty for his country regardless of his personal views about whether the war is just, because he enlisted before this fiasco began.
Are you saying that you can beat the War Drum, but you want others to fight the war that you so fervently support?
The question that you need to answer is this- if you think it’s such a noble cause to go to war (and absorb it’s costs in dead, wounded and debt), WHY is it that you don’t make that sacrifice and join in the fight?
I’ll give you a multiple choice:
A) You’re scared you’ll be killed or injured and it’s better for you to let someone else take your place while you cheer them into the breach.
B) You don’t really believe that the war is such a good idea, but you want (as a NeoCon) so bad to remain in power that you support the war cause in words but not deeds.
C) You’re physically or emotionally unable pass enlistment.
If there’s an option “D” that I’m missing, I’d love to hear it.
October 28th, 2005 at 2:13 pmNot sure if you’re aware of this Randy, but Clinton has been gone for a very long time and he is not responsible for the deaths of 2000 American soldiers, 10’s of thousands of Iraqi civilians and the complete destruction of a major American city. Your guy (the one under whose watch 9/11 occured) has presided over fiscal disaster, war, and the loss of American prestige on the world stage.
Good job wingnuts :)
October 28th, 2005 at 2:15 pmDid you hear what Harry Reid said? This is getting big. (why you people even talk to NED, I don’t know)
October 28th, 2005 at 2:19 pmFill us in kiki?
October 28th, 2005 at 2:22 pmNed, Randy - you support the troops? Like, ranting about Kerry’s service - who enlisted voluntarily and went to war, while your glorious leader went AWOL in wartime? To speak poorly of a Vet when you yourself did not, and will not serve, even though you swear that it is the moral thing and necessary for our survival and the freedom of the world, is spitting on the troops. Do you spit on the wounded soldiers who return daily from this conflict? You don’t have to have served to have an opinion - you are 100% correct. But your bandying about how important it is is meaningless if you are afraid to serve, OR if you do not encourage everyone in your family and all of your friends to serve. If the cause is worth fighting, then it is worth dying for.
October 28th, 2005 at 2:23 pmBut, loyal to the GOP regardless of anything. You still will sweasr to death that there have been no crimes committed. You rail about Clinton’s perjury (espescially at the time, I am sure), but covering for treason is o.k., since they are “on your side”. How about showing some loyalty to your COUNTRY, to your Constitution, Declaration of Independence, and your Bill of Rights? How about showing some loyalty for your fellow Americans. Or have you de-evolved to the point where you only are loyal to your political party? Hitler would be quite proud.
This whole investigation is nothing more than an attempt to bring down the administration ala Watergate. Nothing more. Liberals cannot win the battle of ideas or at the ballot box, so they have fallen back on their last hope of attacking the Republicans through the court system. Well, you are not going to win this time so call off the dogs.
October 28th, 2005 at 2:24 pmRandy, are you in shackles? Are you being frog-marched away from your computer as we speak? Tsk. Tsk.
October 28th, 2005 at 2:28 pm#61
October 28th, 2005 at 2:30 pmBecause as long as the extreme right continues to work with all means to divide the country into two sides we are in trouble. Blind devotion to a political party with hidden agendas is the seed to destroy democracy, and this country - the ultimate goal of PNAC (the deconstruction of the Constitution).
I want to hear what a liberal would consider to be victory in Iraq? I know you say we need to pull our troops out now, but that would do nothing but give a victory to Al Queda and would repeat the mistake we made in Vietnam. The Iraqi people have passed their constitution, the Sunnis are participating in the governmental process and there is no civil war. About four years ago, Newsweek printed an article describing the governments of the Middle east and the personal freedoms each country had. I wonder if they will ever rerun that article considering all of the changes that have taken place since.
October 28th, 2005 at 2:30 pmOn the other hand, hopeless cases may need… tending to…
October 28th, 2005 at 2:31 pmJay, yes you won the bet. Still, you can see why I wanted it to be on the original alleged crime — the outing of a covert agent. There have been no indictments on this and I expect there will be none.
So what we have here is an alleged crime (perjury, etc.) during an investigation of an alleged crime that turned out not to be a crime. And this is supposed to be the nail in the coffin of the Bush administration? I doubt it.
Frankly, I think this will turn out to be a pretty small story in the long run — as long as the indictments go no further up the food chain.
In any case, I will see you all in 60 days. I promised I would honor the bet and I will.
October 28th, 2005 at 2:40 pmCC,
SOMEBODY outed Plame, so the claim that the original crime wasn’t committed is false, they just didn’t catch them on it. Libby lied, perjured himself and obstructed justice to avoid being nailed for the original crime. The old “coverup is worse than the crime” applies with Watergate and it applies here. The fact that the context and the bigger picture are far more serious here than they have been IN ANY CASE in recent U.S. history is worth noting.
Your a good man to honor the bet. Now go and spend some more time with that “11″ wife of yours ;)
October 28th, 2005 at 2:53 pm#64
This whole investigation is nothing more than an attempt to bring down the administration ala Watergate. Nothing more. Liberals cannot win the battle of ideas or at the ballot box, so they have fallen back on their last hope of attacking the Republicans through the court system. Well, you are not going to win this time so call off the dogs.
Comment by Randy — October 28, 2005 @ 2:24 pm
Interesting comments there, Randy. I do believe the CIA requested the investigation. Would you say that the CIA has their sights on the Bush Administration? Why does the CIA hate the Bush Administration? Is the CIA full of liberal hacks?
I’ll say it again, in a slightly different manner. “Liberals” who are sore over the 2000 and 2004 elections didn’t ask for this investigation.
Attacking the Republicans through the court system, you say? I didn’t realize Fitzgerald was a liberal. You have proof that says otherwise?
You know, you really don’t make much sense.
October 28th, 2005 at 3:03 pmBUSH IS BLACKMAIL, AGAIN BUSH ESCAPE FOR NOT BEING CHARGED WITH CRIME, ETC WE NEED BUSH IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH
October 28th, 2005 at 3:11 pmJay, a small quibble before I go. By the definition I read (to be “covert”, an agent had to be undercover overseas within the past 5 years) — Plame did not qualify as covert.
Also interesting is the media coverage (those of you here who actually think the media is not biased or is even pro Bush might want to read this):
Today ABC, NBC and CBS all went to live coverage of this event. Back in 1997, when Agriculture Secy. Mike Espy was indicted on 39 counts the three networks aired a single evening news story. Later the same year when former HUD Secretary Henry Cisneros was indicted on 18 counts, NBC Nightly News filed one story, ABC’s World News Tonight gave it 18 seconds. CBS Evening News didn’t arrive on the story until the next night, and gave it nine seconds.
Watch the talking heads today and tonight — they are positively giddy about this. So all of you who think they are in Bush’s pocket — just shut up and a get a grip on reality. Hard for some of you I realize, but try.
Hasta Leugo.
October 28th, 2005 at 3:12 pm#82
…and how much coverage did that blow job get again?
Well, I read somewhere that the Washington Post printed something like 400+ stories regarding the BJ.
October 28th, 2005 at 3:26 pmYou know Ryan, the real story here, for anyone willing to report on it, is this vast left-wing conspiracy that has been haunting the President since the day he took office….
October 28th, 2005 at 3:44 pmIt requires a level of maturity and a willingness to change to accept the responsibility for one’s own actions. It is easier to displace. It also means that one must swallow a bit of one’s pride - you know, that thing that certain Christians call a “Mortal Sin”? Pride and ego go with greed and corruption. The foodstuff of the extreme right.
October 28th, 2005 at 3:45 pm“Republicans never honor their agreements, because they are always without honor.
CC - YOU LIED AGAIN!” - Puny Putz
Concerned, Dems talking about honour is almost as funny as libs talking about “security” HAHAHAHA!!
October 28th, 2005 at 3:57 pmNeD-
A, B, or C?
In case you’re ignoring it:
A) You’re scared you’ll be killed or injured and it’s better for you to let someone else take your place while you cheer them into the breach.
B) You don’t really believe that the war is such a good idea, but you want (as a NeoCon) so bad to remain in power that you support the war cause in words but not deeds.
C) You’re physically or emotionally unable pass enlistment.
If there’s an option “D†that I’m missing, I’d love to hear it.
October 28th, 2005 at 4:08 pm#86 - STFU! Democrats know alot about greed and corruption too. Just wait and see what happens to Cor-slime in the next week in NJ.
October 28th, 2005 at 4:11 pmNeD-
What- no comment? A, B, or C?
October 28th, 2005 at 4:16 pm#90 - I can have an opinion on the war and not serve in the military. Look at President Bush - he never served and he sent us to war. That must really bother you. Well, at least he didn’t slander the military like your beloved Kerry…
October 28th, 2005 at 4:22 pmryan -
can you explain how the republicans trained, etc, etc, - al queda? i have heard much different, and heard some of what you said…unless i am mistaken — i would like to take you up on this — where is your evidence?
October 28th, 2005 at 4:30 pmNew grand jury, investigation continues.
October 28th, 2005 at 4:32 pmCivil suit on it’s way.
You had no idea what your little puppy ’scooter’ was
up to, did ya dick? Or why he was doing it, right dick?
You two were basically in constant contact during that
period of time, yet you never had any conversation Re: Ms. Wilson/Plame?
Of course you didn’t.
Ryan is a TERRORIST. He hates Israel - I’ve heard him say as much.
October 28th, 2005 at 4:35 pmin 1979 - the mujahadeen started to recieve aid from the US…that would be 2 years before a republican administration continued to support the mujahadeen.
October 28th, 2005 at 4:40 pm#
#90 - I can have an opinion on the war and not serve in the military. Look at President Bush - he never served and he sent us to war. That must really bother you. Well, at least he didn’t slander the military like your beloved Kerry…
Comment by The Northeast Dilemma — October 28, 2005 @ 4:22 pm
I’m not asking you about your opinion- We know what your opinion is. I’m asking WHY you choose not to serve when you think fighting a war in Iraq is such a noble cause?
And incidentally, yes I have a problem that Bush dodged service in Vietnam and ordered troops to Iraq. And from his response to the troops’ needs (especially the veterans- his policies for taking care of vets is appalling by any standard). I don’t know how Kerry would have responded- it’s a hypothetical question and a stupid one at that, since he’s not made the incredible poor “wartime” decisions that Bush has made.
For the record, the only problem I have with going into Afghanistan is that the Operation was sabotaged by removing equipment and intelligence assets from that Country to go into Iraq. I, like most of the people in the country apparently, believe that it was the wrong decision to go into Iraq -particularly with absolutely no appreciation to the “post-war” environment. The fact that is also appears that this war was started on false pretenses (not a statement of fact, but certainly indications from today’s indictment shows a pattern of deceit AT BEST on the prelude to war).
Again- the question is WHY DO YOU CHOOSE NOT TO JOIN? You’re one of the war’s most ardent supporters, so why can’t you walk the walk?
A) You’re scared you’ll be killed or injured and it’s better for you to let someone else take your place while you cheer them into the breach.
October 28th, 2005 at 4:45 pmB) You don’t really believe that the war is such a good idea, but you want (as a NeoCon) so bad to remain in power that you support the war cause in words but not deeds.
C) You’re physically or emotionally unable pass enlistment.
NeD, Ryan hates Isreal? Don’t you think that’s stupid to say? It’s all fun and games listening to you all try to link Clinton into every single post, but don’t you find yourself sounding, well, a little redundant? To keep us entertained you must provide a little more than that.
Clinton isn’t in office and no redneck will vote for a woman. So, move on. I mean, there’s some great shit going on right now, have you seen the news?
October 28th, 2005 at 4:47 pmWhy are these indictments coming after over a year and a half of their investigation?
This isn’t justice at the crack of a whip I know but- hey- why the delay?
October 28th, 2005 at 4:50 pmBeloved Kerry? We don’t wrap ourselves up in our candidates or choices. We actually think about what we are doing when we vote. We don’t run on automatic. This concept has obviously blown right over your nugget. We just don’t shove our politicians up our arses.
October 28th, 2005 at 4:52 pmMessiah? Oy Vey.
October 28th, 2005 at 5:13 pmPP - watch and learn from conservatives. We will not put up what liberals put up with from Clinton. The movement is too strong. If Libby and these guys broke the law - they’re going to pay. ALL they needed to do was attack Wilson as the liar he is - they didn’t need to use the back door approach. AND Libby has to pay now. Clinton apologists’ took a short term gain in keeping his butt in office and the long term effect has devastated the Democratic Party.
AND when Bush said he’s going to appoint judges like Scalia or Thomas - he better damn well do it. OR we’ll find someone who will. Unlike Democrats, I don’t fear the Bushies. I’ll vote their crony butts out if I have to.
October 28th, 2005 at 5:26 pmryan -
agreed.
i think both parties are responsible for that one.
the carter administration funded the afghan govt before the soviets invaded.
October 28th, 2005 at 5:30 pmWhat did Wilson lie about?
October 28th, 2005 at 5:58 pmNeD, he was right though. The info was bogus and what’s more, apparently, we know now, that it could have been googled. YES GOOGLED. That is how the documents with respect to Niger were found out.
We saw what we wanted or just made the crap up. Listen, they wanted war and got it. It is really that simple. You know this. Just because you wanted this war as well, you are doing exactly what they are - rationalizing and justifying AFTER THE FACT.
October 28th, 2005 at 6:01 pmYou can try to make the square peg fit the round hole, but, alas, it will fail. Just like now. The gung ho war effort is quickly waning and you also know this too. Like Bush says ’sometimes you have to say things over and over before some get it.’ You see where that got him. He’s sucking wind and will go down in history as a liar. Do you really want to hook your horse to this wagon?
I see though, you are willing to abandon him in a heartbeat if he doesn’t tow YOUR line. Do you really not see the flaw in your argument? Sometimes we as a people have to think about US AS A WHOLE and not as many individual unconnected parts. We as a nation are more than the sum of our parts. Sound familiar?
October 28th, 2005 at 6:07 pmwedding ring
wedding rings
January 1st, 2006 at 1:06 pmwedding ring
wedding rings
January 1st, 2006 at 1:06 pm