Last night, Sean Hannity said this:
I don’t think anybody exposed anything. I think everybody knew in town what [Valerie Wilson] did for a living. There’s no evidence that she was covert. None.
And two nights ago, Ann Coulter said:
She hadn’t been a covert agent for six years, and everyone in Washington knew she worked for the CIA.
Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald knocked that talking point down hard today in the Libby indictment:
At all relevant times from January 1, 2002 through July 2003, Valerie Wilson was employed by the CIA, and her employment status was classified. Prior to July 14, 2003, Valerie Wilson’s affiliation with the CIA was not common knowledge outside the intelligence community.
One right-wing talking point down, many more to go.
I am sorry, did you say that Fox news said, “Blah Blah Blah”?
October 28th, 2005 at 3:39 pmoh, snap!
October 28th, 2005 at 3:39 pmQuestion to the experts outside the blog: If the media, as in FoxNews and other media outlets, outlets continue to allow personnel in their employ, either directly employed or by contracts, to lie (spin) stories against Wilson and Fitsgerald then are they part of the conspiracy and therefore need to loose their priviledge to use American airwaves?
October 28th, 2005 at 3:40 pmthe other talking point that fitzgerald totally demolished was perjury as a “technicality…”
October 28th, 2005 at 3:43 pmi think i even heard a sharp “ping!” sound as he shot it down like one of those carnival games with the air rifles and the ducks!
PING! PING! PING! PING!
October 28th, 2005 at 3:46 pmHeh, Orrin Hatch was just on CNN with Wolfie pushing the same point in support of the notion that since no underlying crime was committed, there couldn’t be any obstruction charge filed. The Intelligence Idenities Protection Act, as he reads it, couldn’t have been broken, because Plame was not covert. He said, “She wasn’t even out of the country.” Right. Hmmm, either Hatch hasn’t read the statute, or he doesn’t know how to read. Oh wait, there’s a third option, he’s a lying sack.
October 28th, 2005 at 3:46 pmWhile the legal story is still unfolding, it is critical to keep the significance of the CIA leak case front and center. The two key narratives here about the Bush White House:
- Protecting Fictional Iraq War Rationales
- The Bush Politics of Payback
For the full story, see:
“Indicting an Administration.”
October 28th, 2005 at 3:50 pmI hate to ask the most obvious, but I do see this coming from the Conservative mouthpieces.
Does being “classified” the same as being “covert”? I was seemingly under the impression that it was. Otherwise, why have a 2 yr. investigation?
October 28th, 2005 at 3:55 pmQuick comment…great day and more to follow!
Libby has two choices…
1. plea bargain, do his time and protect the Cheney gang.
2. Go to trial and be asked the same questions he lied about the first time he was asked.
I see a plea bargain, he has no choice. The Bush administration will see to it that he fear for his life.
October 28th, 2005 at 4:00 pmas a republican, I am appalled at the ‘not covert’ spin to support these alleged terrible acts. This is serious business and lives could’ve been put at stake. I’m dismayed that a political motivation originated this problem and continues to avoid blame. I am saddened that the responsible leaders in my party have chosen this tact. Let the trial proceed and the chips fall where they may, that’s justice….let the spinners be judged by their words and deeds.
rich
October 28th, 2005 at 4:01 pmThat’s Fox news for you. They started that network with a ideological slant for the purpose giving the far right a voice in the media and as a result you tend to get alot of misinformation and false perceptions in the news. Also, alot of their pundits are not even trained in journalism, so they don’t have much experience in being objective. Alot of them are ideologically driven. It’s a all new low, but as long as there is a market for it, they will keep doing what they do. That’s why websites like http://www.mediamatters.org are so important. We can’t give up guys!
October 28th, 2005 at 4:05 pmFor Hannity and Hatch and all the other liars, Fitzy said this: I am the umpire and Scooter threw sand in my eyes just as I was going to call a strike.
It’s obvious what Scooter did. And it’s obvious Hannity and Hatch never played baseball….pussies.
October 28th, 2005 at 4:07 pmDisgusting. The right wing crucified Clinton during the Lewinsky scandal and made Ken Starr out to be some sort of heroic figure of the “noble and just” (those who have “family values”). What those involved in this leak scandal have done is not only far worse than Clinton, it is treason. Mean spirited treason for the purpose of revenge and to discredit those who disagree with the neocon agenda. To go on Fox News and claim…wait…oh, Fox News. Nevermind. Par for the course. Hannity and Coulter are shameful.
October 28th, 2005 at 4:07 pmFaux news is what I have called the NaziNetwork for years. You’ll notice that the bush-crime family has a family member in a high position there too.
There has never been a moment when the bush-crime family has been in politics that there has not been some scandal attached to them:
1940’s Found to be helping finance the Nazi’s and had their assets frozen for violation of trading with the enemy act october 1942. Prescott (dumbya’s grampa) profited directly from slave labor.
1945 - time to cleanse the family name - send HW to the navy and create a hero.
1950’s Prescott calls in favors and gets in politics
1960’s HW-big daddy in CIA has ties with Oswald Johnson cheeney and rover- makes many trips from tx to fl. Helps pen the “operation northwoods”. (fyi: operation northwoods was an idea to use a domestic terror attack and blame it on Cuba to justify military action against them.) Helps set up a young dictator, moves him from Egypt to Bagdad, puts him on CIA payroll and pays for his apartment. Later installs him as leader - can you say Sadam?
1970’s big-daddy is CIA, Cheeney on the scene, rover on the scene can you guys say Watergate? Sideline: Kadafi on CIA payroll - some guys in south america on CIA payroll too.
1980’s big-daddy is Vice, Ray-gun is asleep, dumbsfailed arranges to sell WMD’s to big-daddy’s friend Sadam Husein and gives a wink wink nod nod to gas the curds. And Iran-contra.
1990’s big-daddy is pissed cause he can’t steal the election and helps the wing-nut zealots do a witchhunt on Clinton.
2000 - stolen election
2002 - operation northwoods comes to pass, time to invade some countries & steal their oil. Time to make big bucks for big business and family business (carlyle group)
2003 - damage control - Plamegate begins
2004 - steal election
2005 - get tit in wringer.
October 28th, 2005 at 4:08 pm#1 Ryan Neat - That’s right out of the dictionary, no? Could you PLEASE send a copy of that to every single media/news outlet?
October 28th, 2005 at 4:08 pmFitzgerald used the word classified. At another point in his press conference today he said he wouldn’t comment if she was covert. I wish I had an exact quote, if someone else does it would be appreciated. Apparently there is a difference. I’m surprised no reporter asked for a disntinction.
Fox was saying just before the press conference that people knew she worked at the CIA. They had an ex-agent on saying it’s her responsibility to keep it secret. They also had G. Gordon Liddy saying that Mr. Wilson would introduce her at parties saying she worked at the CIA. Apparently, if that did happen, it didn’t happen before July 2003, according to Fitzgerald.
October 28th, 2005 at 4:10 pmNobody would have allowed the ANY President of the United States to be questioned as part of a criminal investigation unless there was a CRIME involved.
Who knew Plame-Wilson was CIA? Almost nobody. They can stop splitting hairs.
CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION means what happened, whether anyone’s doing at the White House or not, was a CRIME.
Imagine if it were say Sen Kerry talking to some reporter about Plame. A majority of the FOX NEWS crowd would be demanding blood.
End of spin for FOX.
October 28th, 2005 at 4:11 pmAnn Coulter has said that Freedom of Speech is over-rated… um Ann? You exist because of that Freedom. Your venomous hate spewing voice could be removed from the airwaves all over the “Bible Belt” otherwise.
That’s an idea though… Constitutional Amendment protecting the sanctity of intelligence. No more Coulter.
October 28th, 2005 at 4:16 pm#7 - I would go with lying sack.
October 28th, 2005 at 4:20 pm#13, RichB, I felt just the same way after Clinton’s debacle. I couldn’t believe someone I respected so highly politically could show such bad judgement in his personal life.
It’s refreshing to see a self-declared Republican be honest and not immediately jump into defensive mode. Sometimes we have to admit when our leaders make mistakes.
(Although I have to admit, calling what’s happened here a “mistake” is a catastrophic understatement…)
October 28th, 2005 at 4:23 pmSeeing how this is coming from Fox network, I’ll take it with a pillar of salt.
October 28th, 2005 at 4:24 pmOh, and I second #18’s request.
Rich B. I have a great amount of respect for you, and perhaps I have a poor view of how all Republicans think, by what you have said.
This is the kind of attitude I expect out of the American people. We are one country and we should act like that. Glad to see that a Republican can say that and mean it.
I am not a supporter of a particular party, but seeing how both parties work I would have to say I’m closer to the Democrates.
Thanks for your honest and respectful conversation.
October 28th, 2005 at 4:36 pmOK. These are several really simple questions for any Republican here who does not support this investigation.
1. If Mrs. Wilson was not a covert agent, and thus no crime was committed by revealing her name (no matter WHO did it), then why did the CIA request the investigation to begin with? No guesses; please cite sources backing up your answer(s).
2. If Mr. Wilson lied about his findings, and an honest Bush Admin. surely would have known it if he did (and thus should have hammered home the true facts with the American people), then why did administration officials even remotely consider discussing his wife amongst themselves and others? Especially if her status in the CIA was not truly not covert? What do you suppose they hoped to accomplish?
Thank you for your time.
October 28th, 2005 at 4:40 pmSorry…part of 2nd question should have read “Especially if her status in the CIA was truly not covert?”
October 28th, 2005 at 4:42 pmif the political parties were reversed, neocons would be furious over this compromise of national security…
October 28th, 2005 at 4:47 pmRe: Comment #7
If the Intelligence Idenities Protection Act has been broken, then why wasn’t Libby charged?
Yeah, perjury and obstruction and false statements are pretty bad, and if guilty he should go to jail, but there’s no charges of violating the IIPA. That was the biggie, the one all the lefties have been awaiting with baited breath.
Looks like “Fitzmas” was a “Fitzle”…
Later,
October 28th, 2005 at 4:49 pmRight wing talking point….
Also known as a “lie”
October 28th, 2005 at 4:50 pmi wonder if they will correct themselves….
but i wont hold my breath.
October 28th, 2005 at 4:54 pm#27–EXACTLY!! I wish the numbskulls over at CNN, et al would use some of that logic for once.
What’s killing me is–do you think Cheney could really be indicted??? I almost dare not say it, it makes me so giddy…but honestly, I keep seeing it all leading there…
October 28th, 2005 at 4:54 pmIt’s awfully quiet over at Coulters blog !
October 28th, 2005 at 4:55 pm[…] Think Progress � Earth to Fox: Valerie Plame Wilson Was Covert […]
October 28th, 2005 at 4:58 pm#30: “Yeah, perjury and obstruction and false statements are pretty bad, and if guilty he should go to jail, but there’s no charges of violating the IIPA.”
October 28th, 2005 at 4:59 pm….yet. Fitz does have another grand jury, after all. Don’t count your chickens just yet, Cicero.
#30 Let me ask you this….
How would you prove that they broke the IIPA? With everyone in the WH basically lying, how would you determine the truth in order to determine that the law was broaken? It’s like before DNA came about…. How would you prove that the masked man was in fact the rapper?
So if someone lies under oath, then obviously they are trying to hide something and more than likely there has been a crime. Otherwise, everyone would have presented truthfull accounts and all requested documents upon request. That was not the case, so when a crime is found it does not matter if it was the original crime or not. ITS STILL A CRIME.
October 28th, 2005 at 4:59 pm“If the Intelligence Idenities Protection Act has been broken, then why wasn’t Libby charged?”
Because they have not found the original source of the leak yet.
October 28th, 2005 at 5:00 pmthank you for the kind words of my earlier statement, I too would like to acknowledge a person - Lanny Davis on CNN was decidely more objective and understated on the charges, he even got the ‘it’s Joe Wilson’s fault’ Republican pundit looking foolish over how the spin was going. I readily admit Lanny drove me nuts during the clinton troubles with his defense, but perhaps the rancor he experienced allowed him to be statesmanlike in his statements today. I gained a respect for him.
btw, local talk radio here which is conservative to libertarian leaning has not showed any support to Libby and have had sympathy with the covert charges being paramount. They don’t like that it happened but seem to have been accepting that Fitzgerald is a straight shooter and saw it that way.
regards, rich
October 28th, 2005 at 5:01 pm#33
Indeed.
Re: my question #2, I can just imagine a conversation at the WH:
“Hey, this Joe Wilson guy is not being truthful about what he found in Niger. But we’ve got undeniable proof that Iraq was trying to obtain yellowcake. I think we should talk about his wife instead!”
October 28th, 2005 at 5:05 pmFor all the people who are “giddy” at the thought of Rove, Cheney, etc. being indicted, let’s not get ahead of ourselves… We should be seeking justice, not payback! I’d hate to see the progressive movement sink down to the spiteful level that the conservatives fell to when they were trying so desperately to find something, anything to nail Clinton for in the 90s. I’d like to think we’re bettet than that, that it isn’t just about winning. It’s about doing what’s best of the country and not what’s best for whichever party. Maybe I’m naive in hoping this way…
Peace
October 28th, 2005 at 5:13 pm#39 - “thank you for the kind words of my earlier statement, I too would like to acknowledge a person - Lanny Davis on CNN” - rich B.
October 28th, 2005 at 5:27 pm***You must mean the objectve, fair, balanced and totally non-partisan LANNY DAVIS, right??!! HAHAHA!!
P. S. “I exchange the words “covert” for “classified” all the time, just ask Hillary.” - the Big Dog
October 28th, 2005 at 5:29 pmThe most important point in the Frit’s talk was that Plame had been outted. This was passing on classified information. AND damage had been mode to national security. The wonderfully clear talk about the baseball player being hit in the haed by a pitcher [Libby].
October 28th, 2005 at 5:30 pmBoth Think Progress and Media Matters are going to need to tape all Fox News programs 24 hours a day, 7 days per week for the next 2 weeks. They have to be watched because they can’t be trusted. They are going to try to lie and smear their way out of this!
October 28th, 2005 at 5:34 pmI think Fitz dropped a number of hints today, if you care to read them that way. He knows that Libby lied, but he doesn’t know why. He thinks exposing a CIA agent can be a crime, but he hasn’t established all the necessary elements (awareness, intent, etc.) to meet the minimum burden for indictment. He knows that there was considerable discussion of Plame/Wilson within the WH, but again all the pieces aren’t there to establish a willful, orchestrated outing. Lots of emphasis on the predicates to the act, rather than just the act in isolation.
In saying the bulk of the investigation is complete, I got the sense that he’s pretty clear on the events, the players and the timeline…but what he’s missing is someone to say “We planned it. We did it. We wanted to silence Wilson. And Dick pulled the trigger.”
I don’t know if he can get that, unless somebody turns. But he doesn’t seem to be a dummy, and there’s always hope if he keeps the investigation moving. The whole key here could be a Libby conviction…or even simply the trial itself. Time and testimony in open court have undone many.
October 28th, 2005 at 5:36 pmNo, Ryan- I agree with ARE. We should be just as outraged when a Dem violates the law, especially when it comes to National Security. For example- Sandy Berger stuffing documents down his pants is outrageous, and we should applaud his prosecution as we express our disappointment in our Party for excusing action such as these..
That being said, the violations of laws & basic decency in some (many) of the ruling party Republicans have been so egregious and reaches so far into the power structure that I think we can now say that the problem is systemic. As has been mentioned before, practically none of these allegations have stemmed from Democratic prompting (save the Delay investigation) because with no control of the Houses of government, we cannot launch Congrssional hearings without Republicans allowing issues out of committee. So I think it’s just the tip of the iceberg with these people, and I think it’ll be a long time before we relize the extent of the damage they’ve wrought on this country.
But the tide will turn, and ARE’s point is that we should want honesty and integrity at the cost of personal victories through party affiliation. I know of many good republicans that are appalled and would never vote for Bush again - and we need those good people to watch the Dems carefully if we ever DO get back control of the Executive Branch. I personally would rather live an honest Republican leadership than a Democratic government as utterly corrupt as our current one.
Isn’t that the point of a Democracy?
October 28th, 2005 at 5:38 pm#49: What happened to the 2 former White House aides that did turn? I thought I read that somewhere.
October 28th, 2005 at 5:40 pm#50: jparker-
Right on.
October 28th, 2005 at 5:42 pmHear hear, jparker.
October 28th, 2005 at 5:42 pmRyan - It is payback if we’re all hoping for charges and indictments to be brought just because Libby/Rove/whoever is/are on the “other team”. I’ll say it again: I don’t want to sink to their level! How does this make me not progressive? If a law was broken, great, prosecute, see how far up the chain it goes, if it brings the President down, fine. But if we get into the same type of nitpicking that was done with Clinton (setting him up to perjur himself on a comparitively meaningless trangression) then, well, I’ll be bummed out. Has everyone not read “Blinded By the Right”? It’s all pretty well spelled out in there…
October 28th, 2005 at 5:45 pm“Everyone in DC knew who was CIA”, Except Karl Rove, Dick Cheney, Lewis Libby, George Bush, Tim Russert, Matt Cooper, Judith Miller and the rest of the Washington press corps and those in the know.
Can Fox get any more pathetic?
By the way, How many criminals on their payroll?
-GSD
October 28th, 2005 at 5:46 pmRDL, I agree. Besides, when facing 30 years in prison and a $1.25M fine, who knows what (or who) Scooter may offer up. He was lying to protect someone. Time will tell if it was dickhead.
October 28th, 2005 at 5:46 pmRepublicans are claiming that just because her employment was classified it doesn’t mean covert.
Republicans are desperate idiots and they may want to look this law up.
TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 37 > § 793 Prev | Next
§ 793. Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information
October 28th, 2005 at 5:47 pmNarcs on a police force are covert but not classified.
October 28th, 2005 at 5:48 pmOK, Jparker just put it much better than I could have. Cheers…
October 28th, 2005 at 5:48 pmCase in point: Kos and other lefty blogs called on the former Alabama Governor to drop out of his race and thoroughly lamblasted him for being so much as indicted. On the other hand, the GOP is out today saying that Scooter is “innocent until proven guilty.” They obviously where thinking up talking points while Fitzgerald was laying out the timeline.
I loved the part where he said that Scooter had a talk with Ari on a MONDAY about info that he told the FBI he learned from Russert on a THURSDAY.
Ball game!
October 28th, 2005 at 5:50 pm#50
Since you brought up the Sandy Berger incident, I’d like to address something that I’ve wondered about since then, which I’ve seen no one address. Consider this excerpt from a CNN story (http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/07/20/berger.probe/)
Law enforcement sources said archive staff members told FBI agents they saw Berger placing items in his jacket and pants, and one archive staffer told agents that Berger also placed something in his socks.
My question is this: if the archive staff members saw him taking the items, why didn’t they try and stop him from doing so, especially before he left the building? I just think this is somewhat strange.
October 28th, 2005 at 5:50 pmFor all the people who are “giddy†at the thought of Rove, Cheney, etc. being indicted, let’s not get ahead of ourselves… We should be seeking justice, not payback! I’d hate to see the progressive movement sink down to the spiteful level that the conservatives fell to when they were trying so desperately to find something, anything to nail Clinton for in the 90s. I’d like to think we’re bettet than that, that it isn’t just about winning. It’s about doing what’s best of the country and not what’s best for whichever party. Maybe I’m naive in hoping this way…
Peace
Comment by ARE — October 28, 2005 @ 5:13 pm
Fvck ARE! Don’t you noobs recognize a “concern troll” when you see one? GOPstapo.
October 28th, 2005 at 5:50 pmH,
That depends on the level of classified, now does it? Considering that the police force keep this a secret, then it is classified from public access at the local govermental law enforcement level. It’s just not classified by the federal government.
Comment by Ryan Neat
There are no laws against outing a covert narc. There are laws with respect to classified info.
October 28th, 2005 at 5:52 pmOnly the fed can classify information.
October 28th, 2005 at 5:53 pmRyan: Fox News gives Chuck Colson, Gordan Liddy and Ollie North access to airwaves on a weekly basis. When is the last time the Dems have used Jim Wright or Gary Condit. You are right, the Dems hold our people accountable and their services are no longer wanted. The GOP holds fundraisers and gives criminals their own radio shows. BIG DIFFERENCE!
October 28th, 2005 at 5:55 pmOK, Jparker just put it much better than I could have. Cheers…
Comment by ARE
Yeah?
October 28th, 2005 at 5:57 pmThen fvck Jparker! He’s a GOPstapo “concern troll” too.
Plame’s status was classified. That is the legal key term. Covert is just a word. And she was covert.
October 28th, 2005 at 6:01 pmDear Dear Freepers, Truth Hurts, Yes?
The Investigation has Yet another twist oh Lovable Freepers.
Do not Cry Freepers, the Sparkle Box and Spin Machines lie to All whom Listen and become entrapped in the slippery emanations spewing forth.
I know that more truth would shatter your fragile worlds of Pundit TV Produced by that oh So “Liberal” Media of Neo-Con Conglomerate Irving Kristol Media Punditry that you purchase weekly.
Cloaked themselves pretty Good dint they?
Fooled Purt near half of America.
Much Less of the World.
The Next Step Freepers is Yummy Yellowcake.
Here he is Mr. Un-American Hisself!
Doug Feith! Give a Big Hand For Mr Un-America Folks!
Boo!
Hisss!
Booo!
(Bronx Cheers)
Here is The Official Investigation (Pdf Format) into Feiths OSP (Office of Special Plans); and How the Slanted Intelligence was used by Bush Co. to take us to War.
Its a Year Old 10/2004 but the Occasion Today Brings it back into Focus.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/ intell/ library/ congress/ 2004_rpt/ 102104inquiryreport.pdf
In Short;
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This report is the result of an inquiry initiated on June 27, 2003 by Senator Carl Levin, Ranking Member of the Senate Armed Services Committee (SASC), and conducted by the SASC Minority Staff. The report focuses on 1) the establishment of a non-Intelligence Community source of intelligence analysis in the office of Under Secretary of Defense for Policy Douglas Feith; and 2) the extent to which policy makers utilized that alternative source rather than the analyses produced by the Intelligence Community (IC) with regard to the Iraq-al Qaeda relationship. This report is highly relevant to the current Congressional consideration of intelligence reform. As the House and Senate consider legislation in response to the recommendations of the 9/11 Commission, it is of critical importance that any new structure or organization correct, to the greatest possible degree, one of the most serious and persistent flaws of the current system of intelligence analysis and estimates: the politicization of intelligence, or, stated another way, the shaping of intelligence to support administration policy. This report shows that in the case of Iraq’s relationship with al Qaeda, intelligence was exaggerated to support Administration policy aims primarily by the Feith policy office, which was determined to find a strong connection between Iraq and al Qaeda, rather than by the IC, which was consistently dubious of such a connection. In order to present a public case that heightened the sense of threat from Iraq, Administration officials reflected more closely the analysis of Under Secretary Feith’s policy office rather than the more cautious analysis of the IC.
MAnne Coulter Blogs are gonna get even Quieter when they Figure out what MAnne means.
October 28th, 2005 at 6:10 pm#
jparker,
I disagree, an honest republican administration would have 40% poverty and a police state. I’d rather live in an honest democratic administration, but I’d take a corrupt democratic one over a corrupt republican any day! When’s the last time we even had a corrupt democratic administration? It’s just fiction!
Comment by Ryan Neat — October 28, 2005 @ 5:45 pm
This is bullshit-
A) We shouldn’t be satisfied in any way with any sort of corrupt government. I thought the lesson of the last 5 years was that the ends DO NOT justify the means.
B) Part of the reason that the 2000 elections were so close was that swing voters were so disenchanted (at best) with Clinton, largely because of the impeachment issues. (let’s agree not to debate whether that’s a self-serving basis for casting a vote). We will never gain the trust of the swing voter is we make ourselves to be vindictive and petty.
C) As for the “Police State” -you’re confusing Republican with NeoCon. We need to show those who consider themselves to be moderate republicans that we can govern with honesty and integrity- if we can’t, we’ll never gain back control of the government and institute any sort of a progressive agenda.
D) To say there aren’t corrupt Democrats is just ignorant. As long as campaign finance creates the buying and selling of votes, any elected official can be corrupted.
I appreciate your fighting the good fight, but the “win at all costs” mentality is where we are today- and it ain’t a pretty place.
October 28th, 2005 at 6:13 pmPlame’s employment may have been classified, but that doesn’t mean she was “covert.” Under the IIPA a CIA intelligence employee is not “covert” unless they have been posted undercover overseas within the previous five years. Plme was a full-time Washington resident, living under her true name, at all times during the period 1998-2003. So Hannity is right on the facts of this case.
There still is no evidence of any violation of the IIPA by anyone. Now that perjury and obstruction charges have been filed, Libby is entitled to the presumption of innocence until his guilt is proven beyond a reasonable doubt. But if he was dumb enough, and dishonest enough, to lie to the grand jury, then he deserves to suffer the consequences.
PS: Looks like Rove dodged a bullet. The Left is crying in its beer.
PPS: Funny how previous disclosures of honest-to-goodness covert agents have gone unnoticed and uninvestigated until now . . . but that’s probably just a coincidence, right?
October 28th, 2005 at 6:16 pmYeah?
Then fvck Jparker! He’s a GOPstapo “concern troll†too.
Comment by H — October 28, 2005 @ 5:57 pm
Whatever, buddy- just look up any of my previous posts.
If you want to be a surly demogogue, why don’t you go over a stir sh!t up over at RedState or somewhere else- the adults are talking over here.
October 28th, 2005 at 6:16 pmPPS: Funny how previous disclosures of honest-to-goodness covert agents have gone unnoticed and uninvestigated until now . . . but that’s probably just a coincidence, right?
Comment by Blue State Red — October 28, 2005 @ 6:16 pm
Names / info please. Back it up.
October 28th, 2005 at 6:18 pmPS: Looks like Rove dodged a bullet. The Left is crying in its beer.
Comment by Blue State Red — October 28, 2005 @ 6:16 pm
Too early to tell, at Fitz said today. He might have managed a pretty good insular layer of lies around him, which would be a shame. Doesn’t mean he doesn’t deserve the bullet. Figuratively, of course…..
October 28th, 2005 at 6:21 pmBSR,
What makes you think Karl dodged anything? Not only has he not been let off, but a new grand jury is being convened. You’re prematurely ejaculating your spew there junior!
October 28th, 2005 at 6:23 pm“This is bullshit-
A) We shouldn’t be satisfied in any way with any sort of corrupt government. I thought the lesson of the last 5 years was that the ends DO NOT justify the means.”
And that’s not what I said. Wake up dumbass. I said I would prefer an honest democratic administration, but even a dishonest democratic administration would be better for american politics than an otherwise immoral republican one. Corruption is not the ONLY moral concern, nor is it the only one critical to good government.
If you weigh bad policies against corruption, then when republicans are concerned, their bad policy is worse than ANY corruption ever shown by the democratic leadership.
Get a clue you nitwit!
October 28th, 2005 at 6:26 pm“C) As for the “Police State†-you’re confusing Republican with NeoCon.”
In 2005 - there is no difference. It is you who are confused.
October 28th, 2005 at 6:26 pm“B) Part of the reason that the 2000 elections were so close ”
A half million votes isn’t close. 2000 votes is close.
“D) To say there aren’t corrupt Democrats is just ignorant. ”
And yet, that’s not what I said - your response is ignorant. I said when have we had a majorly corrupt democratic administration? Individual democrats have been shown to be corrupt to various degrees, and anyone who’s shown any sort of major corruption (such as Wright) has been shot down by dems themselves!
So actually your statement is what’s ignorant. I don’t know what side of politics you think you’re on, but you really don’t have a very honest picture of the situation. You’ve watched too much faux news.
October 28th, 2005 at 6:29 pm“I appreciate your fighting the good fight, but the “win at all costs†mentality is where we are today- and it ain’t a pretty place.”
No, that’s where YOU are. I believe in fighting the fair and honest fight - where we ‘are’ stems from the fact that republicans DON’T fight fair. They aren’t moral. And they don’t remove corruption from within their midst. They don’t hold their own accountable, but as I’ve shown, democrats are NOT the same. Your belief that they are is delusional.
October 28th, 2005 at 6:31 pmWill Fox wait until the pardon to offer LIBBY a commentator position?
October 28th, 2005 at 6:32 pmSpecial Prosecutor Quote of the Day:
“This indictment is not about the war. This indictment’s not about the propriety of the war. And people who believe fervently in the war effort, people who oppose it, people who have mixed feelings about it should not look to this indictment for any resolution of how they feel or any vindication of how they feel.
“This is simply an indictment that says, in a national security investigation about the compromise of a CIA officer’s identity that may have taken place in the context of a very heated debate over the war, whether some person — a person, Mr. Libby — lied or not.
“The indictment will not seek to prove that the war was justified or unjustified. This is stripped of that debate, and this is focused on a narrow transaction.
“And I think anyone’s who’s concerned about the war and has feelings for or against shouldn’t look to this criminal process for any answers or resolution of that.”
This demonstrates clearly the narrow scope of the grand jury’s findings - and the utter improbability that any other charges will be filed in the absence of a new grand jury. Since Patrick Fitzgerald is clearly no Ronnie Earle I just don’t see that happening.
October 28th, 2005 at 6:43 pmYour belief that they are is delusional.
Comment by Ryan Neat — October 28, 2005 @ 6:31 pm
You didn’t read my post, obviously. Take it back a notch.
October 28th, 2005 at 6:43 pmjparker,
I did read it, I disagree with your conclusions. No one is saying don’t hold democrats responsible, that’s your baggage, not mine.
October 28th, 2005 at 6:51 pm-51 - “No wonder you’re a republican, cronyism is the only explanation that you could ever work as a lawyer. Comment by Puny Putz — October 28, 2005 @ 5:39
***You remind me of a guy I went to school with - he just didn’t understand the difference between larceny, burglary and robbery. Oh, well!!
“…we are outraged when democrats violate laws.” - Puny Putz
***The sentence should have continued on, “we don’t do anything about it, but we ARE outraged!!! (That sure makes Mary Jo Kopechne’s feel ALOT better!)
“The attacks on clinton were based on a sex scandal.” -Puny Putz
No, Moonbat, the “attacks” on the Big Dog started out as a corruption scandal involving an S&L - and comparing a blow job to groping one woman and the allegation of rape by another allows me a glance at your limited “vision”. I remember we were admonished to believe Anita Hill - and disbelieve that poor drunk, Joan Kennedy - “Consistent Dems” - a new oxymoron!!
#73 - “Fox News gives Chuck Colson, Gordan Liddy and Ollie North access to airwaves on a weekly basis. When is the last time the Dems have used Jim Wright or Gary Condit. You are right, the Dems hold our people accountable and their services are no longer wanted.”
Except Ted “the Drunk Swimmer” - Dems haul that ol’ reprobate front and center everytime they want to remind nostalgic Dems of “Camelot”. The beloved Massachusetts Senator would have gone back to save Mary Jo if he hadn’t: (fill in the blank)
October 28th, 2005 at 6:53 pma.)first saved himself
b.)passed out.
c.)been afraid.
d.)been unable to get the lipstick off his collar.
e.)thought it was Joan (It’s easy for drunks to confuse blondes!)
BSR,
I guess you missed this quote:
Washington - The CIA leak investigation is “not over,” special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald said Friday after announcing charges against I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby, Vice President Dick Cheney’s chief of staff.
Fitzgerald said he will be keeping the grand “jury open to consider other matters.” But, he said, “substantial work” is done.
October 28th, 2005 at 6:54 pm“Except Ted “the Drunk Swimmer†“MightHermaphrodite
Isn’t that description for GW these days? No, it’s the DRUNK SINKER - that’s right.
October 28th, 2005 at 6:55 pmEat shit and die, Jparker. Take your concern troll bullshit on up the road. You are reciting bullshit GOP talking points and spin about Berger. Ram it up yer mommy’s ass. Don’t you know the adults ARE in charge? George Fvckin Will said so!
October 28th, 2005 at 6:55 pm“even a dishonest democratic administration would be better for american politics” and “I believe in fighting the fair and honest fight” are conflicting statements, would you agree?
Read what I wrote again. Advocating a dishonest government of any kind means accepting a non-representative government. That’s not acceptable from either party. You’re questioning my political stance because I or ARE dare suggest that there is a possibility of impropriety on the part of any Democrats. NEVER did either of us suggest that we’re “just as bad”. In fact, I believe I went into a two paragraph explanation of how Republican corruption has become systemic.
And by the way - attacking me by calling me a “nitwit” and “delusional” or “ignorant”. I used to have some respect for you, but your personal attacks on someone that’s ON YOUR SIDE (as a progressive, at least) is perplexing. Get a grip.
October 28th, 2005 at 6:57 pm“No, Moonbat, the “attacks†on the Big Dog started out as a corruption scandal involving an S&L”MightyHermaphrodite
First of all bats can see in the dark, something you clearly you can’t do in the daylight. So that description is more of a reflection of your inabilities than it is an insult on mine.
Second the S&L scandal investigation in fact proved clinton innocent. And if Starr really cared about S&L scandals, then the bush boy and the who bush family who actually STOLE money should have been the target. You forget that Clinton LOST money on that S&L scandal, and wasn’t actually involved in the failures other than having invested in the same land deal that the S&L invested in.
You guys sure are drama queens on the most irrelevant things, yet treason, national security, and illegal wars don’t even seem to interest you. Blow jobs are clearly as intellectually complex as you can handle.
October 28th, 2005 at 6:58 pm#
Eat shit and die, Jparker. Take your concern troll bullshit on up the road. You are reciting bullshit GOP talking points and spin about Berger. Ram it up yer mommy’s ass. Don’t you know the adults ARE in charge? George Fvckin Will said so!
Comment by H — October 28, 2005 @ 6:55 pm
Again- go back and look at any of my prior posts in the last two months. I’ve shown exactly who I am. And who are you anyway “H”? I haven’t seen you post before today. Anything productive outside of 7th grade playground taunts to add to an intelligent discussion?
October 28th, 2005 at 6:59 pm“and comparing a blow job to groping one woman and the allegation of rape by another allows me a glance at your limited “visionâ€.”
Mellon Scaife money will make any desperate whore (like you) lie for the money. At least you used the correct word ‘allegation’. Are those like the allegations (I’m sorry PROOF that Laura KILLED HER BOYFRIEND), or the allegation that Bush paid for an illegal abortion for his girlfriend, or lived as a gay man for several years? Or how about that he threatened to have his father kill the new boyfriend of a former girlfriend? See those are all ‘allegations’ that have as much voracity as anything leveled on clinton - but no doubt you only prefer to believe allegations that meet your preconceptions. Where are those special prosecutors to follow up on the Bush allegations? You’re a MORON YOU STUPID DRAG QUEEN AHOLE!
October 28th, 2005 at 7:02 pmBlow it out yer ass, Jparker. After every damn CONservative Republican is dead and buried, I will worry about corrupt Democrats. Not before.
October 28th, 2005 at 7:03 pmjparker,
Yet today, you say things that are wrong. I disagreed with you. You have no PROOF of what you say, and in fact the case of Jim Wright and the past democratic handling of corruption completely disagrees with you. I say YOU look at what you wrote today in that context. You’re rants about democrats and/or democratic tactics are out of context and childish.
October 28th, 2005 at 7:03 pmI’m sure that post will get edited for length. Here’s the link
http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/ index.php?title=Republican_Values&printable=yes
ram your concern up yer ass, pal.
October 28th, 2005 at 7:05 pmBo Bo’s world, because it’s not just Republican politicians, it’s the morons who vote for them and troll here.
http://heartlandvalues.blogspot.com/
October 28th, 2005 at 7:09 pmRyan- I never ranted about “Dem tactics”. I merely stood up when you attacked ARE for saying this:
“We should be seeking justice, not payback! I’d hate to see the progressive movement sink down to the spiteful level that the conservatives fell to when they were trying so desperately to find something, anything to nail Clinton for in the 90s. I’d like to think we’re better than that, that it isn’t just about winning. It’s about doing what’s best of the country and not what’s best for whichever party.”
You seemed find some fault in this statement, and I was only stating that we should make sure that we conduct ourselves in highest measure of integrity should we (Dems) regain power. You’re suggesting that I was attacking Dems on the whole, or the way that they conduct investigation of transgressions within the party; neither of which is true. And given that a few other progressive in here agreed with me, I don’t think I’m the one being “childish” here.
Save the vitriol for the opposition, kiddo.
October 28th, 2005 at 7:14 pmram your concern up yer ass, pal.
Comment by H — October 28, 2005
“That being said, the violations of laws & basic decency in some (many) of the ruling party Republicans have been so egregious and reaches so far into the power structure that I think we can now say that the problem is systemic.”
“I personally would rather live an honest Republican leadership than a Democratic government AS UTTERLY CORRUPT AS OUR CURRENT ONE.” (emphasis added) Above Post # 50 Comment by jparker — October 28, 2005 @ 5:38 pm
Congrats, H- you just made my point.
Anytime you’re in Denver and you want to put that “concern in my ass”, you let me know.
October 28th, 2005 at 7:19 pmYou need to quit paying attention to the “Liberal Media”
Anatomy of a smear: Sandy Berger “socks” shocker
Lies, blind quotes, and innuendo rampant in Berger coverage
http://mediamatters.org/items/200407230001
http://www.cnn.com/ 2005/ LAW/ 04/ 01/ berger.plea/ index.html?section=cnn_latest
October 28th, 2005 at 7:20 pmAnytime you’re in Denver and you want to put that “concern in my assâ€, you let me know.
I wouldn’t piss on Denver if it was on fire to put it out. That close to the sun, the radiation does something to your brain.
October 28th, 2005 at 7:22 pm“I personally would rather live an honest Republican leadership than a Democratic government AS UTTERLY CORRUPT AS OUR CURRENT ONE.†(emphasis added) Above Post # 50 Comment by jparker — October 28, 2005 @ 5:38 pm
You ARE the opposition.
October 28th, 2005 at 7:23 pmPuny Putz - your confusion over legal terms (i.e homicide, murder, man-slaughter, voluntary, involuntary,…little things like that) leads me to believe you are a “fat cat” with no ability to earn a living - but…. as I had to level with a really shitty breeder (who kept telling me what a “good boy” her convicted druggie son was - his “only” charge this time - Murder1 - CA penal co
October 28th, 2005 at 7:36 pm108 - cont - CA penal code 187) In short, I told “Mom” that her son was a “piece of shit” - no trust fund there but a menace just the same!
October 28th, 2005 at 7:40 pmPuny Putz - your confusion over legal terms (i.e homicide, murder, man-slaughter, voluntary, involuntary,…little things like that) leads me to believe you are a “fat cat†with no ability to earn a living - but…. as I had to level with a really shitty breeder (who kept telling me what a “good boy†her convicted druggie son was - his “only†charge this time - Murder1 - CA penal co
Comment by mighty aphrodite
When I saw this quote, I thought of you, hermaphrodite. As a victim, you would fall under the “praiseworthy” classification.
HOMICIDE, n.
October 28th, 2005 at 7:45 pmThe slaying of one human being by another. There are four kinds of homocide: felonious, excusable, justifiable, and praiseworthy, but it makes no great difference to the person slain whether he fell by one kind or another — the classification is for advantage of the lawyers.
Boy, you liberal dems are sure a bunch of sore losers. If you really don’t know what you’re talking about, why not just listen (read) for a few days. Although, I suppose you do feel that this is the only forum where you can speak your mind and believe it will actually make a difference. Do you guys ever get a good nights sleep? You know, with all that worrying & whining stuff.
October 28th, 2005 at 7:54 pmNothing but nothing is funnier than seeing all the right wing trolls come out from under their rocks to sound off.Their feelings were hurt today when they had their little cowardly hands slapped. HAAAAAAA
October 28th, 2005 at 8:05 pmAP,
Why do you come here if you aren’t ‘worried’? And why did you post such a whining indictment of liberals? Hypocrisy is the second ugliest of republican sins, right behind ignorance and hatred. I sleep great, but clearly you don’t.
October 28th, 2005 at 8:14 pmH,
MightyHermaphrodite (aka MizzWrong) always sees everything in the eye of victim and victimizer. It’s a symtom of her borderline personality disorder.
October 28th, 2005 at 8:15 pmH - is that short for the unfortunatly deformed “Hermaphrodite”?? You should pay closer attention to correct spelling and better grammar.
Your definition of homicide - where DID you go to law school- was that a correspondence course one sees on a book of matches?? Ta-ta, Mr Aphrodite and I have an engagement!!
October 28th, 2005 at 8:53 pmAmericanPie should be made aware that the Washington Post reads this blog, and I don’t look down on anyone for speaking their mind and thinking it will make a difference.
miz aphro., unless I’m mistaken that quote comes from The Devil’s Dictionary by the 19th century humorist Ambrose Bierce. I’m afraid I cannot say what matchbook correspondence courses he might have taken before writing his 800 page work.
I also remember this one:
redman (n): a native person of this land who is not actually red, except on the inside.
That sort of describes some people’s attitudes towards foreigners… especially darker ones from the middle east. Like George W. Bush’s general said, “It’s a helluva hoot!”
October 28th, 2005 at 9:31 pm“This demonstrates clearly the narrow scope of the grand jury’s findings - and the utter improbability that any other charges will be filed in the absence of a new grand jury. Since Patrick Fitzgerald is clearly no Ronnie Earle I just don’t see that happening.”
Comment by Blue State Red — October 28, 2005 @ 6:43 pm
Guess what? Wilson’s lawyers will be using the info gleaned from Libby’s (as well as “official A”’s) upcoming trials as preliminary discovery. Areas that Fitz chose not to pursue will be targeted with probing and leading questions in the civil trial(s). With Bush and Cheney under oath, it won’t be long (oh, about next October or so) before we get a much fuller picture of the depths to which these “leaders” descended, to push a phony reason for invasion. Remember Clinton, BSR? You guys buttered this bread with an investigation about blowjobs and ten-year-old land deals - and now you’re going to choke down the results - bon apetit’.
October 28th, 2005 at 9:31 pmSomething I’ve asked on several threads, but I’ve yet to have any responses. Is this on purpose? Hmmmmm???
The question is to those who insist that Valerie Wilson was not a covert agent. If this is so, why did the CIA request the investigation to begin with?
October 28th, 2005 at 9:36 pmAND, anything uncovered in civil court can then be used by Fitz. Is he playing chess? If the main players think that damaging info might be revealed in civil court (things that Fitz might not feel was in the scope of the original investigation, but could lead him to probe further), then their incentive to co-operate might be enhanced by possible civil liability.
October 28th, 2005 at 9:43 pmUhm yeah right. She was a successful COVERT agent because everyone knew who she was.
Right.
Swampland in Florida?
October 28th, 2005 at 9:57 pmI’ve had my head buried in work all day (up until 10 minutes ago), did I miss anything? ;)
October 29th, 2005 at 12:54 amH - is that short for the unfortunatly deformed “Hermaphrodite�? You should pay closer attention to correct spelling and better grammar.
Your definition of homicide - where DID you go to law school- was that a correspondence course one sees on a book of matches?? Ta-ta, Mr Aphrodite and I have an engagement!!
Comment by mighty aphrodite — October 28, 2005 @ 8:53 pm
“H” is for Hell To Pay and you are running low on funds. That definition of “Homicide” is from Ambrose Bierce’s “The Devil’s Dictionary”. Even a home-schooled moron like you should have some familiarity with Bierce. Any American who is not familiar with him ain’t worth spit. It’s like knowing nothing of Twain or Mencken. I’m sure Sceptimus Smith has heard of Bierce. Why don’t you two get a home study group together? Speaking of Sceptic stank, check him out getting the bad ass smack down in a New York second over at Jane Hamsher’s Firedoglake:
http://www.haloscan.com/ comments/ firedoglake/ 113054289464563288/ #149509
That’s his first post, scroll down from there as he gets denuded and run out of town like the snake oil salesman he/she/it is.
October 29th, 2005 at 3:37 amAnd anyone else who wants to wring their hands and bash the Democratic party now is going to get my foot up their ass. When they are back in power I will join you in the bashing, if and when it is warranted. If you do it now, I will eviscerate you.
October 29th, 2005 at 3:40 amAmericanPie should be made aware that the Washington Post reads this blog, and I don’t look down on anyone for speaking their mind and thinking it will make a difference.
Comment by tom unplugged — October 28, 2005 @ 9:31 pm
I think many journalists are reading blogs. I wonder how many of them actually have time to read many of the comments. You can google “Ambrose Bierce”, “Bitter Bierce” and “Devil’s Dictionary” and find out as much as most know. I’m hardly a Bierce scholar but I have been a rabid fan of his for almost twenty years.
October 29th, 2005 at 3:55 amI went into a two paragraph explanation of how Republican corruption has become systemic.
You could have just skipped the whole futile exercise and phoned this in:
Corruption is institutionalized and systemic.
I recommend: Chambliss, William J., On the Take: From Petty Crooks to Presidents, 1978, Bloomington, University of Indiana Press (Seattle-King County corruption cases).
Nace, Ted, Gangs of America which you can download for free here, you cheap bastard:
http://gangsofamerica.com/
N.B. It’s not about the “hood”.
And my favorite:
The Rich Get Richer and the Poor Get Prison: Ideology, Class, and Criminal Justice (6th Edition) (Paperback)
by Jeffrey H. Reiman
Or Prison Nation: The Warehousing of America’s Poor
edited by Tara Herivel, Paul Wright
You can also visit this site:
http://www.paulsjusticepage.com/reiman.htm
Who’s the idealist here?
October 29th, 2005 at 4:08 amWhy is it that few if any commentators, pundits, or even the great unwashed masses appear unwilling to discuss the clearly defined relationship between Ms Plame and Brewster Jennings? Is it just laziness or just a desire to not face the fact that by novack posting that relationship, he immediately exposed a carefully designed structure that had been been created way back on 1994! Wake up folks- this was Treason, pure and simple! Do any of us know how many possible deaths resulted from novacks’ posting of that companies name?
October 29th, 2005 at 9:40 amcomments anyone?
billjpa@aol.com
It’s not Fox Cable Network or FoxNews it’s gotta be Fox Fable Network or FoxFableNews…
October 29th, 2005 at 11:15 amDemocratic hand wringers and disillusioned conservartards wanting to play the equivalency game, take note:
We got the government Lanny Davis deserves
If you’re looking for an argument in favor of overthrowing the Democratic party old guard, you won’t do better than the one Clinton White House counsel Lanny Davis advances in his bizarre New York Times op-ed piece today.
Assuming it’s not a parody, the stomach-churning essence of the argument is that crime is now indistinguishable from politics. While Davis admonishes Republicans for their “criminalizing politics†mantra, he likewise chastises Democrats for finding an indifference to national security in the Plame leak.
Similarly, the Democrats are playing up the idea that White House officials may have endangered national security in playing hardball politics. Well, I can remember all the times I picked up the phone and talked “on background†to reporters, “pushing back†against rumors damaging to President Clinton and citing information that I thought was “out there.†I don’t remember ever worrying about whether the facts that I felt were public knowledge might have been classified. But even if I had, I would probably have rationalized that anything I had heard on the grapevine couldn’t possibly be a state secret. If every political aide was prosecuted for those kinds of conversations with the press corps, I’m afraid there wouldn’t be enough jails to hold us.
Maybe Davis didn’t have time to read the Libby indictment before he submitted his article; given what he says about his own carelessness as White House counsel, that’s not out of the question. Whether he did or not, the cynicism and dishonesty he packs into that single paragraph is breathtaking (and the rest of the piece is worse).
The information about Plame wasn’t “out there:†it was about as far “in there†as one can get without resorting to a proctologist to get it out. It was in the vice president’s office, the state department’s intelligence branch and the CIA. Libby wasn’t “pushing back†against rumors: he was “screwing†an administration critic for so publicly “discrediting†an already rickety core administration “claim†about Iraq that the White House felt compelled to “renounce†it. And if every senior White House official — calling Cheney’s chief of staff and national security advisor a “political aide†is pretty cute — who learned the identity of a covert CIA agent from the vice president of the United States and promptly leaked it to the press was prosecuted, I suspect our jails could handle the traffic with room to spare for Davis if he did anything even remotely as sinister as that. With a bit of luck, we’ll find out.
Davis plays the equivalency game: for every Republican sin, he has to offer up a counterweight Democratic one. But Republicans have owned the government for five years now; there is no equivalency. There are no powerhouse Democratic lobbyists under indictment, if only because Tom DeLay has been so successful in purging Democratic lobbyists from K Street. There are no powerful Democratic Congressional leaders under indictment, if only because there are no powerful Democratic Congressional leaders. Democrats didn’t out a covert CIA agent; Democrats didn’t drag the nation into an illegal war based on bogus intelligence (although more than a few are complicit in the effort); Democrats didn’t institutionalize torture or strip US citizens of basic constitutional protections.
There is a national security issue here. Republicans are demonstrably more corrupt than Democrats. Hell, this isn’t even the only occasion on which the administration have blown the cover of a secret intelligence asset from purely political motives: in August of last year, the administration infuriated British and Pakistani intelligence services by leaking the name of a highly placed al Qaeda informant in order to justify an increase in the terror alert level, and in the process ruining counterterrorism operations in Britain and Pakistan.
For going on 40 years now, Democrats have gotten their asses kicked when it comes to hardball politics. Lanny Davis and Libby/Rove are emblematic of why. If Davis wants to wish a pox on both parties’ houses, he should probably wait until Democrats get a house.
October 29th, 2005 at 12:10 pmOnce more for the denser among you.
The information about Plame wasn’t “out there:†it was about as far “in there†as one can get without resorting to a proctologist to get it out. It was in the vice president’s office, the state department’s intelligence branch and the CIA. Libby wasn’t “pushing back†against rumors: he was “screwing†an administration critic for so publicly “discrediting†an already rickety core administration “claim†about Iraq that the White House felt compelled to “renounce†it. And if every senior White House official — calling Cheney’s chief of staff and national security advisor a “political aide†is pretty cute — who learned the identity of a covert CIA agent from the vice president of the United States and promptly leaked it to the press was prosecuted, I suspect our jails could handle the traffic with room to spare for Davis if he did anything even remotely as sinister as that. With a bit of luck, we’ll find out.
Davis plays the equivalency game: for every Republican sin, he has to offer up a counterweight Democratic one. But Republicans have owned the government for five years now; there is no equivalency. There are no powerhouse Democratic lobbyists under indictment, if only because Tom DeLay has been so successful in purging Democratic lobbyists from K Street. There are no powerful Democratic Congressional leaders under indictment, if only because there are no powerful Democratic Congressional leaders. Democrats didn’t out a covert CIA agent; Democrats didn’t drag the nation into an illegal war based on bogus intelligence (although more than a few are complicit in the effort); Democrats didn’t institutionalize torture or strip US citizens of basic constitutional protections.
There is a national security issue here. Republicans are demonstrably more corrupt than Democrats. Hell, this isn’t even the only occasion on which the administration have blown the cover of a secret intelligence asset from purely political motives: in August of last year, the administration infuriated British and Pakistani intelligence services by leaking the name of a highly placed al Qaeda informant in order to justify an increase in the terror alert level, and in the process ruining counterterrorism operations in Britain and Pakistan.
For going on 40 years now, Democrats have gotten their asses kicked when it comes to hardball politics. Lanny Davis and Libby/Rove are emblematic of why. If Davis wants to wish a pox on both parties’ houses, he should probably wait until Democrats get a house.
October 29th, 2005 at 12:12 pmH - You effort to emulate the clever cynicism of Mencken falls (sadly) short. But it is interesting that you self-identify with literary cynics such as Bierce and Mencken.
“And anyone else who wants to wring their hands and bash the Democratic party now is going to get my foot up their ass. When they are back in power I will join you in the bashing, if and when it is warranted. If you do it now, I will eviscerate you.
Comment by HellTo Pay — October 29, 2005 @ 3:40 am”
I’ll bet my NRA membership I’m a better shot than you are a punter.
October 29th, 2005 at 5:38 pmWhy would anyone take that bet? An NRA membership ain’t worth piss or the paper it’s printed on. Having said that, I would win that bet. Any moron can shoot, and even hit something once in awhile. Hitting your target while it’s shooting back at you, that takes more than skill and what it takes you ain’t got.
October 30th, 2005 at 9:01 pmMighty Aphrodite,
Off topic, but I was thinking about our discussion about the flat tax and I realized that I was making a pretty broad assumption that a flat tax would be unfair to “average joe”. Senator Ron Wyden of Oregon introduced “The Fair Flat Tax Act of 2005,” aimed at simplifying the tax code while keeping it progressive. It appears to be a pretty good proposal, but I wanted your view on this as well.
October 31st, 2005 at 6:22 pmI think it’s high time this admin is exposed for the liars they are.Valerie plame was clearly outed by this admin..what reasons did any of them have to be discussing her in the first place? The one clear cut reason, her husband dissented the admin.I mean c’mon it’s so clear to anyone that has common sense. For the faux news and other rightwingers talking point to be that ‘WAS SHE REALLY COVERT’ “DID THEY KNOWINGLY OUT HER” it’s there job to keep her idenity secret and it’s their job to know whether she is or isn’t before discussing it with reporters..yet more proof of this admin’s lack of compitency..the mere fact that they would allow their lies to strectch so far as to breach national security is a clear indication that this admin has absolutely no boundaries in what they will do to cover up there corruption. i say hang them all out to dry..when will the nation wake up and realize this is the most corrupt admin of all time..they are ruining this nation..they are a disgrace to democracy..if Bush has an ounce of deceny he will follow thru on his promise to rid his admin of anybody involved in this leak.(which may include himself) the american people are tired of the lies..BUSH NEEDS TO COME CLEAN WITH THE AMERICAN PEOPLE!!!!!!!!
November 4th, 2005 at 10:10 amMICHELLE IN ATLANTA
AS FAR AS # 88′ COMMENTS— are you a complete idiot? these proceedings are a direct result of a covert agents idenity being exposed as a result of her husband dissenting the admin on their lies about wmd’s.it is so clearly what happened. many people in this country allowed themselves to believe in this admin and there reasons for going to war with iraq(me, i wasn’t fooled then and i’m not now)and they gave their support to bush based on the itelligence( that we now know at the time he knew was not true)that he shared with this country in is address to the nation.
November 4th, 2005 at 10:30 amface it pal….Bush lied, people died..we’ve had it with the corruption and you should be too..you rightwing nutcases were all over the clinton scandal..thought it was just horrific that he would lie about having sex outside his marrige(which by the way is not against the law and in no way threatens national security)but, here we have a scandal that is a direct result of lies told too the nation about going to war and cia agents idenity being outed and you don’t take that seriously..unbelievable!! have you no shame?
It’s not real hard to figure out this one about Valerie Plame Wilson with regard to protections offered by law. The right wing shills who don’t take the time to find out without speaking should simple read TITLE 50 UNITED STATES CODE Sec 421 and Sec 426. It is plain to see the administration flunkies have really screwed up on this one….the one thing that people forget is that they also passed the USA PATRIOT ACT, which has provisions for punishment of offenders of intelligence matters WITHOUT CIVIL COURT ACTION…Thats right! They can simply take ol’ Scooter to Eastern Europe and imprison him…without a lawyer!
November 7th, 2005 at 11:54 pmNew Lefty Slogans- Everyone Lied, Saddam Fried! or how about Kofi Took Money, Saddam Was His Honey….or how about Pull Out Now, We Don’t Know How!!! Keep patterning yourselves after France, it’s working out great for them……
November 21st, 2005 at 11:50 am