TABOR Defeat Rattles Right Wing
TABOR Defeat Rattles Right Wing
On Nov. 1, Colorado voters spoke: No more TABOR.
Coloradans passed Referendum C, suspending TABOR (Taxpayers’ Bill of Rights). TABOR is a hodgepodge of “anti-tax” initiatives that have impaired Colorado’s ability to set priorities and respond to crises. Since TABOR’s passage in 1992, Colorado’s public services have severely suffered. A sampling:
The percentage of Coloradoans with no health insurance rose from 12.7 percent in 1992 to 15.6 percent in 2001.
K-12 education spending per student fell by more than $300 compared to the national average from 1992 to 2000.
In-state tuition at colleges and universities increased 21 percent over the last four years.
The progressive victory in Colorado unhinged its right-wing opponents. Grover Norquist, president of Americans for Tax reform, attacked Referendum C supporter Gov. Bill Owens (R):
Young Republican children years from now will be scared in campground campfires by stories about Bill Owens – the tax-cutting Republican who magically turned into a tax-increase bad guy…and they will not be able to sleep all night.
Douglas Bruce, the author of the 1992 TABOR amendment, also responded maturely:
[Colorado voters] have to accept the consequences of voting themselves back into slavery.
Clearly, the right isn’t used to losing. But they had better get used to it.
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Countdown until Bruce is going to issue a well-deserved apology for the slavery reference….T-minus 30 minutes and counting….
November 3rd, 2005 at 11:58 amWe should get used to losing. NO, not really. It’s Democrats who should get used to it.
You might have the lying MSM on your side, but you don’t have the people. Bill Owen sold out his conservative values, but he still has an R next to his name which explains his victory!
November 3rd, 2005 at 11:59 am#1 – right after MD Democrats apologize for throwing oreo cookies at GOP Lt. Gov. Michael Steele. The ignorance and fascism that black Democrats show toward conservative African Americans is scary….. and SAD.
November 3rd, 2005 at 12:00 pmThere are Republican children? Who knew…?
November 3rd, 2005 at 12:01 pmNED’s changing the subject again. Trolls can never stay on topic.
November 3rd, 2005 at 12:02 pmYes, 1992 was a bad year for those of us in Colorado at the time. TABOR and the anti-gay Amendment 2 both passed in that election. At least we got Bill Clinton.
Thankfully, Colorado is coming out of its funk. The right-wing nutcase dominance in the state appears to be over. Thank God.
November 3rd, 2005 at 12:04 pmwow, Colorado is sounding cooler every day!
November 3rd, 2005 at 12:07 pmYes, but the nation isn’t safe yet from Grover and his cronies. We in CA are voting on Nov. 8 on a similar proposal: http://www.denverpost.com/politics/ci_3174790
November 3rd, 2005 at 12:13 pmhttp://capitalnews.org/
Vote!
November 3rd, 2005 at 12:15 pmGREAT! Looks like we will be adding senators in Ohio, Pennsylvania and Colorado.
Line up states, lets roll. I see 5 democrat senators in 2006. We need one or two more. Sign up now.
November 3rd, 2005 at 12:16 pmRyan Neat is a liar.
Pablo – you won’t beat Mike DeWine. We’ll have the very popular Ken Blackwell on the ticket who will run on a campagin of reform.
November 3rd, 2005 at 12:17 pmYes, we should all show deference to the race traitors who sell out their own kind.
November 3rd, 2005 at 12:17 pmRyan Neat,
Keep up the good work.
November 3rd, 2005 at 12:19 pmYes, we should all show deference to the race traitors who sell out their own kind.
___
Hey — lay off Wal-Mart, willya?
November 3rd, 2005 at 12:23 pmDoug Bruce is a slumlord.
Gorver, well he’ll be indicted soon. Where’d you get all the money for that Americans for Tax Reform, Grover?
Wingers also like their School Board membersout here to be convicts and criminals.
November 3rd, 2005 at 12:24 pm#13- you sound like a Nazi.
November 3rd, 2005 at 12:25 pmi wouldn’t necessarily buy a plane ticket yet, Pete. we still have one of the most corrupt politicians in Washington to vote out of office, our Democratic senator supports the erosion of separation of Church and State (see his press releases on The Pledge), and dissent regarding the Iraq war uniformly triggers accusation of wishing pestilence and death on our members of the armed forces (outside the Boulder stronghold that is).
we are moving back away from the Right towards sanity, but it is slow going indeed.
November 3rd, 2005 at 12:28 pmFYI: The corruption King Blackwell is but a similar amendment in Ohio.
NED, If you think Ohio Republicans are going to rally around Blackwell you are sadly mistaken. He is not popular here. And Republican leadership in general has destroyed our system of public and post secondary education. Tuition is through the roof in Ohio and we are nearly last in college affordability.
Don’t tell me Blackwell will carry the ticket. Please. If Republicans win again in Ohio it will be because of their superior fundraising and organizational ability vs. the anemic Ohio Democratic party. It will not be because of the superiority of their ideas. They have none, other than to raid the state treasury for the sake of their wealthy buddies.
If the Dems raise some money in 06 and run decent candidates the GOP doesn’t have a chance here. Take it to the bank.
November 3rd, 2005 at 12:31 pmNeD, NeD, NeD… sold out his conservative values? Like less health care for the people (only rich people should have health care)? Like less education for public school children (only rich kids should have educations, or everyone should have to go to private school – even if you can’t afford to – but you can get a good religious indoctrination there)? Like make it harder for the less fortunate to go to college (again, college should be for the rich people – the poor should just go straight to factory work and forget about getting an education)? (Note to factory workers: I’m not putting that down. It is necessary, and I have been there, done that myself).
November 3rd, 2005 at 12:34 pmOr the integrity of repugs: likening the removal of a restrictive and ineffectual tax system to voluntary slavery. Yeah, THAT makes sense.
I guess it is part of the repug psychology, though: “stick by your decision no matter what, and if it seems to not work, lie about it and change the subject. As long as it profits us and our backers, who cares?”
And, boy, step out of the party line and even little NeD is going to snap at your heels. Repugs are fascist goons who insist that “you are with us (the GOP) or against us (and thus an enemy)”. Questioning the repugs is enough to be “against them”.
Small minds.
Amanda
I am as anti reactionary right as anyone. However, I do have trouble with the reasoning in the piece
“The percentage of Coloradoans with no health insurance rose from 12.7 percent in 1992 to 15.6 percent in 2001. ”
Not good obviously. I am under the impression, however, that this is a national trend. How does it compare with other states without TABOR? How much can be attributed to TABOR?
“K-12 education spending per student fell by more than $300 compared to the national average from 1992 to 2000.”
I hope that we of the righteous left do not limit ourselves to measure success by how much tax dollars are spent, and, by implication, how much taxes are raised. This only plays to wingnut rage. In addition to the decrease in spending, which is not bad in and of itself, I want to know what the effect is on the children, and on Colorado’s economy. As an aside, I observe a correlation between obscurantism and wingnut tendencies: does a lower education level play to a stronger wingut vote?
“In-state tuition at colleges and universities increased 21 percent over the last four years.”
This too is a national trend. And in and of itself, it is not necessarily unjustified. How does it compare with the rest of the country? What is the impact on the students, their parents, and the Colorado economy?
Darwin
November 3rd, 2005 at 12:37 pmYoung Republicans camp? Or are they planning Nazi youth education camps in the future?
November 3rd, 2005 at 12:43 pm#21
November 3rd, 2005 at 12:50 pmFair points about the national figures. O.k.. (And I have no numbers).
On the education matter, public schooling has been underfunded for quite some time. The “No Child Left Behind” idiocity serves only to take MORE money away from the schools, and has the effect of ‘dumbing down’ public school children who must spend several months of their school year preparing for the standardized testing instead of learning a variety of material. Private schools are not so burdoned. If the people are less educated, then they are less capable of thinking for themselves, and more inclined to believe whatever they are told by ‘those in power’. So, yes, the wingnuts have to gain by dumbing down a generation: they create sheeple who do not know how to think for themselves. If they could wipe the freedom of speech from the Constitution they would. “Don’t think. We will think for you. Do what you are told” (oh, sorry, I just put every troll into zombie mode… that was not your masters speaking….)
I think it is about time the people in Colorado wokeup to what the Republican Party is doing to our America.
November 3rd, 2005 at 12:51 pm“The percentage of Coloradoans with no health insurance rose from 12.7 percent in 1992 to 15.6 percent in 2001.”
Save with everywhere else, thanks to gov’t meddling in healthcare.
“K-12 education spending per student fell by more than $300 compared to the national average from 1992 to 2000.”
First, $300 is not a lot when per-student spending is $5000-$10000/yr. Also, more money doesn’t lead to better results. Funding has increased dramatically since 1979ish, and look what it’s gotten us? The gov’t school monopoly has clearly failed.
“In-state tuition at colleges and universities increased 21 percent over the last four years.”
November 3rd, 2005 at 12:54 pmSave with everywhere else, because of increased demand, and federal gov’t subsidies to students.
Save = Same
November 3rd, 2005 at 12:56 pmNED,
November 3rd, 2005 at 12:58 pmI live in Maryland, when did #3 happen? Either I was off the planet that day or missed it on the local news coverage. I know you wouldn’t spin the truth would you troll?
#23 This is great news that Paul Hackett is ahead of Senator Mike DeWine. I have been keeping tabs on the Ohio elections. More power to Paul Hackett.
November 3rd, 2005 at 12:58 pmBecause before 1992, government did not meddle with health care? Or do you have causal proof?
$300 per student is a lot, even with $10k per student. I understand if you think the education system failed, looking at who the president is, but the fact is our education system did best when the federal government had a strong program to train engineers and scientists during the cold war. When that went away, education declined.
And you’ll need to explain how cutting off federal subsidies to college students will improve their education. Or is eduction one of those quaint liberal ideals, like the geneva convention and government transparency?
November 3rd, 2005 at 1:00 pmAlso, China is putting a lot of government effort into training scientists and engineers right now, and they will overtake us if we don’t get on the ball.
But if you don’t like liberals, maybe you see fewer scientists as a good thing.
November 3rd, 2005 at 1:02 pm“Alito is against race based preferences like affirmative action – like most of America is. That is a good thing.â€
“Bush can appoint Condi to VP and try to “heal†the country. The first female and black VP – major achievementâ€
“he will pack the Court with judges that think like me!”
-Northeast Dilemma
November 3rd, 2005 at 1:04 pmNeDzi, as usual you show your lack of the genes for compassion and satire!
November 3rd, 2005 at 1:05 pmI now proclaim you Troll of the Week, I have to give you credit for tenacity as you just keep coming back to get the stuffing kicked out of you over, and over…
Related subject – apparently Bush is asking for reductions in food stamps. After all, our budget problems are all laid at the door of poor kids getting a free lunch! We won’t be able to afford to bomb any more cities at this rate!
Glad to see Colorado wising up, how about Washington?
nEd is evil – self centered sob. You cannot appeal to him/her/it by saying only rich people get health care.. he/she/it could give a damn about poor people and even the middle class which are many that do not have health care.
November 3rd, 2005 at 1:07 pmgot mine, right neddy? there are more of us than there are of you – and what goes around comes around. MSM rarely reports truth – but when they do – fascist like
NED claim left wing media. rot in hell fascist GOP
davidians.
If the right is dumb enough to squash the middle class then this is what we will see more of in the future.
November 3rd, 2005 at 1:11 pmRyan Neat, post #9 was excellent. I couldn’t agree more and it’s the absolute truth.
As for NED calling you a liar (?!!!), well, that sounds like somebody trying to change the subject at the very least, and just being a putz. . . at the very least.
November 3rd, 2005 at 1:17 pmKen Blackwell will lose, DeWine will lose, Ohio is OVER for Repubs.. boo-hoo…
- Cleveland, OH
November 3rd, 2005 at 1:20 pmNeD, why do you bother? I’m not a fan of Gov. Owens and I never voted for him, however, he gained a great deal of respect from me for standing up to Norquist and Bruce; it was refreshing to see a Republican act on facts and principle and not cower to the lies, mis-statements and half-truths from the Reich. Bill, sorry about your future political aspiration, but this Coloradoan salutes your bi-partisan actions.
November 3rd, 2005 at 1:25 pm#27
November 3rd, 2005 at 1:26 pmWhere did you get that 5K – 10K per student figure for public grade schools? Or did you make it up? That may be true in affluent public districts, but it is not in inner city schools (and the repug system of destroying the public education system – simply because it is a public activity and not private: “gee, that might actually be Christian like if we really did something to help the poor and the children. Wouldn’t wanna do that. Christianity is just our front.” – is THE reason for all of the problems in the system). Yes, most public schjools would tell you, and honestly so, that 300 per student per year is a big deal. If you take away the money and continue to blame teachers, then the problems will increase. Schools need funding, particularly in this day when they need to buy computers and the software to keep the children educated at the modern level (do you have a CLUE as to how much professional software with support costs?), not to mention facilities, books, etc., etc.. And parents need to take responsibility for their children, support the school and teachers (and most teachers don’t go into the thankless and poor paying job of teaching at the elementary level because they hate kids… most teachers care, and often more so than the parents – and that’s repug parents, too), and get involved with their children’s education. I have gone way off topic, but am going to post this anyway. Harrumph.
Oh yeah, Mr. Norquist: I want to apologize for we Coloradoans choosing to protect our state instead of blinding following your marching orders to “drown” the gov’t. Hopefully the 10-15 states that were considering a TABOR-like amendment will take notice and recognize the numerous problems in Colorado’s TABOR. P.S. Try Kansas, they’ll believe anything a snake oil salesman says.
November 3rd, 2005 at 1:37 pmHow eloquent… how visceral… how droll!
See Steven King.
November 3rd, 2005 at 1:38 pmThere won’t be any Republican children years from now.
That ideology is as dead as Ronald Reagan’s rotting corpse.
And I mean that in the nicest possible way.
November 3rd, 2005 at 1:55 pmA huge apology to Colorado conservatives – unfortunately for you, WAY too many of the newer transplants to your beautiful state have come from the ranks of Blue California. Don’t underestimate these folks – they are like piranha when it comes to to your wallets. (AND they are NEVER satisfied!!!) Be warned -they have NEVER met a tax they did not LOVE!!!!
November 3rd, 2005 at 2:04 pm[Colorado voters] have to accept the consequences of voting themselves back into slavery.
That’s not the comment of a conservative. It’s a comment only a full-tilt-loony, anti-any-government, turn-your-skin-blue libertarian would make.
Glad to see such foolishness fall.
November 3rd, 2005 at 2:06 pmRyan Neat is a liar.
No, NeD, I’m sorry. Ryan is right: fascism is a right-wing phenomenon, by definition.
November 3rd, 2005 at 2:10 pmMisc,
Here’s the wikipedia graphic. Fascism is the junction between rabid capitalism, totalitarianism and right wing politics. In otherwords, the NeoCons like MightyWindbag and her fellow zealot fascists. They’re radicals and america is sick of them and their complete insanity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Ancap_chart.JPG
November 3rd, 2005 at 2:16 pm#21. Colorado is one of the worst states in the nation for education based on non-partisan rankings. my memory is 48 out of 50 for quality of education and student achievement but i can’t guarantee the actual number.
the rise in tuition has dramatically affected who can attend college. if C had not passed, it was anticipated that tuition would have had to rise 30-50% more in addition to further program cuts in order to keep state schools open. that certainly would have taken college education out of the reachable range for most lower-income people and would have placed tuition costs close to that of many private colleges. only the rich, already not at risk of not attending, would have been able to attend.
very scary. i am INCREDIBLY relieved that C passed.
November 3rd, 2005 at 2:17 pmWe can always be like south america was in the 80s and remove taxes and produce 60% poverty while creating a class of ultra wealthy. Of course these policies are absolutely devastating to the overall health of the economy – but Republicans/NeoCon/Fascists never let the truth get in the way of their propaganda and delusions…
November 3rd, 2005 at 2:18 pmjax,
Rightwing fascists (like frau windbag) are so hysterically tax phobic they’d rather see education not exist than contribute to a civil society. They’re just like all of those radicals in latin america who are happy with 60% poverty that they blame on poor people. They’re whacko, that’s all. They’re not well individuals.
When a progressive talks about the importance of dealing with education, they talk about ‘guilt’. Clearly the only reason they ever do anything for another human being is ‘guilt’, and they don’t understand what compassion or doing something for others because you care about their well being exists. In otherwords, they don’t have a soul, so they can’t comprehend when someone else does.
November 3rd, 2005 at 2:22 pmOK, Ryan #49, I want you to quit picking on aphrodite. Calling her Mighty Windbag and saying she is a fascist or radical. I mean, I’m trying to get into her pants here and you’re not helping matters any getting her pissed.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but she can’t help herself. But don’t worry, after I get her around those rednecks down at the bar her ass will start acting like all good Republican, conservative wifes: pious, brainless, and stepford-stupid.
I mean, when I get done with her, she’s going to sound just as dimwitted as Barbara or Laura Bush.
November 3rd, 2005 at 2:32 pmMumon,
November 3rd, 2005 at 2:40 pmTell it like it is in #45, don’t sugar coat it. Ronald Reagan was the cheese-head that started this bullcrap conservative movement. The Rethugs worship him like a god, he was a bad actor and a traitor of the democratic party. His legacy are the homeless you see begging on the street corners everyday. Thank goodness he’s dead and gone, we’re better off without his ilk.
Mighty A. the inflow of californians to colorado can only mean that finaly there are some people there who can actually read and think!!!!!!
November 3rd, 2005 at 2:43 pmMy favorite is all of the republicans who complain about taxes, yet who rack up HUGE deficits. Those are taxes on the economy. Because the only way to offset them is to allow foreign capital influx, we also increase our dependency and ‘reduce our security’ because of the huge investments from China, the Saudis and other ‘dubious’ investors. And this is just the tip of the iceberg. The Government actually has an entire treatise on the risks, dangers and concerns of large deficits here for anyone interested.
I’d much rather have actual taxes from our own population, especially since correctly constructed taxation is a known and proven economic stimulis.
November 3rd, 2005 at 2:56 pmA good example of a country that has higher taxes than us and is producing budget surpluses every year is Canada. They have universal healthcare for everyone, spend good money on their publics schools and universities, signed on to the kyoto protocal and they wouldn’t want it any other way. Unemployment is a little bit higher at around 7% but in many parts its way below 5%. Also, the gap between the rich and poor isn’t as wide as here.
Really what I’m saying is that higher taxes is not going to devistate anything. When you look at the republicans and their “tax cut for the rich and spend” policies which is creating trillions of dollars of deficit, you wonder to yourself, how can they have any self-respect for themselves anymore?????? You look at other countries who have successful gov’t programs which it’s citizens cherish and then you look here in the U.S where people are begging for these programs. Look at every other country and their higher standard of education, and you will see they spend alot more money on their students than in here. So yes…more money in education does translate into better results.
Actually, don’t look at it as money, look at it as resources. More resources for our kids. That’s whats needed in here, not lower taxes so we can buy a bigger tv or a nicer car but higher taxes so we can provide a better future for our children. The importance here is priorities.
November 3rd, 2005 at 3:43 pmWasn’t mount Tabor the scene of the transfiguration of christ?
These nutjobs are not fooling me.
November 3rd, 2005 at 3:46 pm#57 Jeremy,
very eloquently said.
November 3rd, 2005 at 4:21 pmI agree 100%.
“Unemployment is a little bit higher at around 7% but in many parts its way below 5%.”jeremy,
Great post, I just must correct you here. Canada tracks TRUE unemployment, the US hasn’t tracked these figures since Reagan. Before reagan unemployeed were tracked no longer how long they were out of work. After reagan took office, this was changed so that only people who were ON UNEMPLOYMENT were tracked. Once they fell off the rolls, they are no longer considered unemployeed.
Our TRUE unemployment is much higher than canada because it doesn’t account for people who’ve given up finding work. We know for instance that there are almost 2 million workers who’ve fallen off the rolls since bush took office that haven’t found new jobs. We also know that there are many more chronically unemployeed not even counted.
November 3rd, 2005 at 4:28 pmMinnesota has very high tax rates, but Minneapolis has the lowest uneploymnet (1.5%) of any US metro area.
November 3rd, 2005 at 4:37 pmSO, I generall only enjoy ad hominem attacks if they are either funny or brutal.
So am I the only person who looks into Grover Norquists’ eyes and see the lifelessness and brutality and blood lust of a killer great white shark?
Just me?
-GSD
November 3rd, 2005 at 5:03 pmDid anyone else see the Delay/Scanlon/Abramoff memo today? Apparently they don’t think much of conservative republican voters. These poor sickos who vote republican get what they deserve.
“The wackos get their information through the Christian right, Christian radio, mail, the internet and telephone trees,†Scanlon wrote in the memo, which was read into the public record at a hearing of the Senate Indian Affairs Committee. “Simply put, we want to bring out the wackos to vote against something and make sure the rest of the public lets the whole thing slip past them.â€
November 3rd, 2005 at 5:21 pmYou missed a great quote from the CO House GOP Leader yesterday. Discussion here:
http://www.demnotes.com/archives/2005/11/joe_you_aint_se.html
“I think we now have become a blue state, frankly,’’ Stengel said during the phone meeting arranged by the Washington, D.C.-based Americans for Tax Reform.
The full article in the Rocky Mtn. News shows a complete meltdown of the right-wing in Colorado yesterday. Great stuff!
November 3rd, 2005 at 6:51 pm#52- “… are so hysterically tax phobic they’d rather see education not exist than contribute to a civil society.” – RyANNE
November 3rd, 2005 at 7:08 pm**** I’d settle for an educated society. Unfortunately, taxpayers aren’t getting too much cluck for their buck. (An excellent example are the geniuses they are turning out in the DCschool district. Aren’t they spending approx. $12,000.- per student – who is on the TAKE there?? Isn’t it amazing that the level of reading comprehension for kids graduating 8th GRADE was HIGHER than the average 12th grade student today??? Just goes to show that $$$ doesn’t always solve problems of education. My suggestion:
a.) STARTING salary for public elementary school teachers – $80,000.-/ yr.
b.) STARTING salary for inner city schools and poor rural districts – $100,000.-/month
c.)Only top tier students would be considered for teacing credentials and positions. No more 2.0 GPA students “teaching” others!
d.) Terminate tenure – if a teacher gets burned out they can ruin a childs school year. The NEA doesn’t gove a sh*t about kids – protecting poor performing teachers is their goal. Tenure protects incompetent teachers and greatly hinders students.
#53 – Joe, unlike all those Dem “womyn” you hang out with, I haven’t taken to cheating on Mr. Aphrodite. But should he be called to his great reward, YOU won’t be at the top of the list. BTW,I heard you were seen drinking your cheap, pissy brew with “someone” who made 80 year old Babs Bush look glamourous in comparison. Your date could benefit from a set of dentures and electrolysis – but, hanging out with you, she’s probably the type of gal waiting for some government program to pick up the tab. P.S. You might want to drop a hint to your date (or gramdma) that a BRA would help – tell her to just roll them up and tuck them in.
November 3rd, 2005 at 7:21 pm#55 – “Mighty A. the inflow of californians to colorado can only mean that finaly there are some people there who can actually read and think!!!!!!
November 3rd, 2005 at 7:35 pmComment by meg_mac — November 3, 2005 @ 2:43 pm ”
**** Well then by all means – please take more!!! Read – maybe. Thinking – not with a PC public school education! We have a high school EXIT exam that most chimpanzees could pass – and you can’t believe the whining!!!
#65
November 3rd, 2005 at 7:38 pmNow I’ve seen everything… I’m actually in agreement w/ Aphrodite on something.
“Yes, we should all show deference to the race traitors who sell out their own kind.
November 3rd, 2005 at 7:45 pmComment by Am I A Nazi? — November 3, 2005 @ 12:17 pm”
****It’s “people” like you who the KKK and Nazi’s are looking to recruit!!!!
MightyWindbag,
But you and your fellow nazis have already been recruited.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/bb/Ancap_chart.JPG/400px-Ancap_chart.JPG
You guys are nazis, and you’re so retarded you don’t even know it! That’s the really amusing but quite sad part about it…
November 3rd, 2005 at 7:48 pmMightyWindbag dishonors her jewish heritage by becoming an american Nazi. Just goes to show you that some people are so stupid that not even a holocaust to their own people can teach them anything. What a psycho bitch!
November 3rd, 2005 at 7:49 pm“a.) STARTING salary for public elementary school teachers – $80,000.-/ yr.
b.) STARTING salary for inner city schools and poor rural districts – $100,000.-/month”
That requires TAXES, and you and the rest of the non-geniuses of the right think that’s a dirty word. If you made those two changes, all of your antics and paranoia about unions would disappear. The problem is that as a whole, you and the rest of your republican nazis are too stupid to do anything that’s good for society. If you want to attract better teachers, increase their wages – don’t fight teachers every time they want a pay increase, which is EXACTLY what you and every other ahole republican does.
Mighty Windbag, increasing teacher salaries is the ONLY sane thing you’ve said since I’ve been here. Truly you must be someone pretending to be the ever lunatic witch of the south. And how do we know it’s really you? Because you follow up with other ‘republican conditions’ that are not only paranoid, they’re as stupid, dull and witless as everything else you post.
November 3rd, 2005 at 7:53 pm“We have a high school EXIT exam that most chimpanzees could pass – and you can’t believe the whining!!!
Comment by mighty aphrodite ”
Well that explains your degree of education…
November 3rd, 2005 at 7:54 pm“unlike all those Dem “womyn†you hang out with, I haven’t taken to cheating on Mr. Aphrodite.”
That would require someone desperate enough to meet the challenge – clearly unlikely. Joe is simply offering you his pity, don’t think so highly of yourself – it isn’t deserved.
And isn’t it interesting how divorce and ‘cheating’ rates are higher in the red states than the very liberal states like mass.? How ironic that this stereotype of the retarded fascist is also wrong – but of course it is. Retarded fascists are that way because they’re retarded, so everything they believe is an ‘opinion’, and therefore facts that disprove that opinion are ignored. You know MAHole, you fit the classic symptoms for someone who’s a psychopath – but then the basement chained MrAHole probably could have already ratted you out for that if anyone had seen him since your ‘first date’.
November 3rd, 2005 at 7:58 pm“unlike all those Dem “womyn†you hang out with, I haven’t taken to cheating on Mr. Aphrodite.â€
Not according to Greek mythology. Aphrodite had many lovers, both mortal and immortal. You see, Aphrodite was just way too sexy for her working class Hephaestus and had many lovers.
November 3rd, 2005 at 8:32 pmRyANNE – I wouldn’t raise taxes – I would cut all the unnecessary sh&t out of the budget – like 186 of the 187 “programs for juvenile delinquents – we call that “make work” programs for 186 bureaucracies, Next, I’d get rid of bridges to nowhere in Alaska, farm welfare, grants to study the sex life of the gnat, etc., etc. (you’re getting the picture I hope!!)
November 3rd, 2005 at 8:33 pmRegarding my education, I was fortunate NOT to have attended public schools – my folks thought if private schools were good enough for limo libs they were good enough for my siblings and me. And about those divorce rates – do they bother to get married in blue states – with the illegitimacy rate so high (across the board) I wasn’t sure. My motto about most unions (I worked for the Amalgamated Clothing and Textile Workers so I know a thing about union thugs) “A great racket to create jobs for the unemployable to protect those late to show and early to leave.”
“I would cut all the unnecessary sh&t out of the budget”
Why, after eleven years of a Republican Congress, five years of a Republican Presidency and a vast majority of Republican Governors, do we have so much unnecessary SH;t in our budget???
November 3rd, 2005 at 8:37 pm“my folks thought if private schools were good enough for limo libs they were good enough for my siblings and me.”
Siblings and “I”, Madamme small private Catholic school for overprivilidged children.
November 3rd, 2005 at 8:39 pmMightyWindbag dishonors her jewish heritage by becoming an american Nazi. Just goes to show you that some people are so stupid that not even a holocaust to their own people can teach them anything. What a psycho bitch!
November 3rd, 2005 at 8:40 pmComment by RyANNE — November 3, 2005 @ 7:49 pm ”
***** Fortunately, RyANNE, I understand there is not much to differentiate Nazi’s and Communists!! The reason I am such an ardent American supporter in this WWIII is because of the Holocaust – my mother was a camp survivor – and she taught us well – NEVER AGAIN!!
But I have no fear – Iran will not succeed in destroying our great country and her closest ally in the Mid East, Israel. That would make you happy, though, you raving anti-Semite – to have Israel wiped off the earth. You will be disappointed once again!
“Next, I’d get rid of bridges to nowhere in Alaska,”
Well, they are in Alaska, which is technically somewhere.
November 3rd, 2005 at 8:40 pm#77
Great points! Don’t forget the record deficts, too.
#78
November 3rd, 2005 at 8:43 pmActually, it is “me” not “I” in that usage.
“I understand there is not much to differentiate Nazi’s and Communists!”
I understand that there is quite a difference:
Communism is totalitarian rule combined with state socialsim.
Nazisim was totalitarian rule with crony capitalism.
November 3rd, 2005 at 8:44 pm“Fortunately, RyANNE, I understand there is not much to differentiate Nazi’s and Communists!! ”
Really? That statement just shows you’re a fool.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/bb/Ancap_chart.JPG/400px-Ancap_chart.JPG
“The reason I am such an ardent American supporter in this WWIII is because of the Holocaust – my mother was a camp survivor – and she taught us well – NEVER AGAIN!!”
Then why are you a Nazi? Never again means NEVER AGAIN FOR ANYONE, yet the way you talk about muslims makes me believe you have no problem with Genocide as long as it’s someone else. Clearly your mother didn’t teach you what ‘never again’ SHOULD mean.
“But I have no fear – Iran will not succeed in destroying our great country and her closest ally in the Mid East, Israel. ”
That’s a redundant statement for you isn’t it? After all, everything you post makes it clear your loyalties are to israel, not the US. You aren’t an american, you’re a traitor. And not because you’re jewish, but because you’re a nazi republican.
“That would make you happy, though, you raving anti-Semite – to have Israel wiped off the earth. You will be disappointed once again!”
Actually stupid actions from Nazis like you will be the most likely cause of that event. I would hate to see israel go anywhere – but as long as fools and freaks like you act like terrorists, no country is safe, especially israel. The ’semitic’ people include muslims – you are the anti-semitic person. You dance around at the prospect of killing palestinians and having them all dead – I’ve read you and MizzWrong laughing about it.
The fact is you’re a hateful witch – not because you’re jewish, but because you’re foolish! You always forget you heartless psychopath – that I’m anti-violence and anti-killing. I clearly want peace in israel more than you do – because your beliefs and the stupid actions of your fellow NeoCons will only bring failure. You guys are so focused, and so stupid, that you will bring about what you fear. Wake up, grow up, and stop being such a retarded bitch!
November 3rd, 2005 at 9:05 pm“Regarding my education, I was fortunate NOT to have attended public schools”MightyWindbag
That explains why you are so poorly socialized.
November 3rd, 2005 at 9:06 pm“And about those divorce rates – do they bother to get married in blue states – with the illegitimacy rate so high (across the board) I wasn’t sure.”MightIdiot
Your parent should have sent you to the ‘good school’, because the one you went to clearly didn’t educate you. Wow, you’re such a retarded idiot.
Red states have a divorce rate 27% higher than blue states.
Number of states above national average illegitimacy rate:
8 blue states
16 red states
That’s right, there are twice as many RED states with an ‘above normal’ illegitimacy rate as blue states.
So much for the ‘theories’ of the retarded windbag. You’re failing on every account again there loser. I hope your clients get better legal advice, than the inept crap you spew here.
November 3rd, 2005 at 9:11 pm“I wouldn’t raise taxes – I would cut all the unnecessary sh&t out of the budget – like 186 of the 187 “programs for juvenile delinquents – we call that “make work†programs for 186 bureaucracies, Next, I’d get rid of bridges to nowhere in Alaska, farm welfare, grants to study the sex life of the gnat, etc., etc. (you’re getting the picture I hope!!)”MightyMoron
Well then you aren’t a republican. See, since republicans took over congress, the number of pork projects has increased 10 fold. It’s clear you’re another fool, voting for a foolish party, and not knowing what the hell you or your party stands for. You’re an idiot!
Number of Pork Projects in Federal Spending Bills
2005 – 13,997
November 3rd, 2005 at 9:15 pm2004 – 10,656
2003 – 9,362
2002 – 8,341
2001 – 6,333
2000 – 4,326
1999 – 2,838
1998 – 2100
1997 – 1,596
1996 – 958
1995 – 1439
Red states, by and large, because of their poverty, lower incomes overall and lack of a tax base, are the biggest sucklings on the federal teet.
But they go around saying how much better they are at keeping taxes down.
Well, if they had to pay the bills for their economic policies instead of the higher income, more highly educated and taxed coastal states, their privilidged economic status would evaporate.
November 3rd, 2005 at 9:17 pm#85
November 3rd, 2005 at 9:23 pmI have a number of friends and a family member who are lawyers. I worked at a large law firm for a year when I was putting myself through college. I’ve never heard such misinformed and illogical opinions from any of the lawyers I’ve known. I wonder if Mrs. Aphrodite is really a lawyer or just plays one on the internet.
I live in a Red state that enacted tougher marriage laws.
My father and sister are both lawyers.
My cousin got one of the first “new and improved” marriages in the country.
She subsequently found out he was a psycho.
The divorce was no harder to execute than any other the firm had seen in 25 years of experience.
November 3rd, 2005 at 9:28 pmMDuchamp,
Then you should look at the powerline blog sometimes. AssRocket that runs the place is a lawyer, and probably married to MightyWindbag (more likely she’s him in drag). There are DEFINITELY some foolish republicans, most of the most foolish are whacko zionist apolyptic freaks who believe in the coming of the messiah and uniting of the holy lands. They are NOT well people.
November 3rd, 2005 at 9:28 pm#90
“Then you should look at the powerline blog sometimes.”
I just don’t know if I have enough of a sadistic streak to do such a thing. Oh, who am I kidding, my morbid curiosity always seems to win out.
November 3rd, 2005 at 9:39 pm#89
November 3rd, 2005 at 9:40 pmAre you in Ohio, Andrew?
No, the South.
November 3rd, 2005 at 9:43 pm#93
November 3rd, 2005 at 9:50 pmWhat you describe sounds like a hair-brained measure voters passed here (Ohio) in ‘04 to galvanize the “family values” crowd.
A certain executive of the Family Research Council was a State Representative in my state (that should give it away) and introduced the statute way back when.
November 3rd, 2005 at 9:52 pmAndrew,
What I always find amusing is that the same christians who bemoan liberals, abortion and gays and everything else using the bible all forget that in the christian bible DIVORCE IS ILLEGAL. And it’s not one of those old testament wiggle room things, it’s ‘jesus himself’ who put the limits on it. Remarriage is also prohibited, as is EVER HAVING SEX AGAIN as long as the other spouse lives. The republican and religious hypocrites thump the bible at everyone as a testament to rigid rules, until it comes to their own petty self interests.
Hypocrisy is a requirement for conservatism…
November 3rd, 2005 at 9:56 pmAh yes… a certain Psycho executive. ;)
November 3rd, 2005 at 9:58 pm• Divorce rates among born-again Christians were much higher at 27 percent than for other Christian faith groups.
• Atheists and Agnostics have the lowest divorce rate of all: 21 percent.
• Divorce rates among Jews were highest of any religion sampled (30%).
So much for religion being important to a successful marriage. Based on this data, it seems the exact opposite is true!
November 3rd, 2005 at 9:59 pm#97
The city he is from has a church with a fifteen story tall cross (no, I’m not kidding, it’s actually that big) on the interstate at the entrance to town.
This is the church housing evacuees that W. visited after Katrina.
November 3rd, 2005 at 10:06 pm#96
“The republican and religious hypocrites thump the bible at everyone as a testament to rigid rules, until it comes to their own petty self interests.”
The problem with Biblical rules is that there are so many sets of them, it is incoherent.
November 3rd, 2005 at 10:13 pmThe Solid Rock Church, between Dayton and Cincinnati, has to be seen to be believed. This site pokes fun a bit of fun at a sculpture that sits outside the church.
November 3rd, 2005 at 10:30 pmNorquist is a Iranian agent and needs to register as a foreign agent..its the LAW ya know!
November 3rd, 2005 at 10:36 pm# 101
November 3rd, 2005 at 10:37 pmDoes he face the rising sun?
#103
November 3rd, 2005 at 10:52 pmNot sure… I was in too much shock and awe to notice.
Thats funny when you guys mention divorces in the red states. I found out that the U.S has one of the highest divorce rates in the world. http://www.aneki.com/divorce.html But we also have the largest christian population in the world. http://www.aneki.com/christian.html
Is there a correlation?
November 4th, 2005 at 10:42 am***** LANGUAGE ALERT – - “Siblings and “Iâ€, Madamme small private Catholic school for overprivilidged children.”- Andrew
November 4th, 2005 at 12:44 pmNo you, moron. “Me”is correct English usage when you SUBTRACT “siblings”. You might say “My parents were …to send I”, but you would be as ignorant as your teachers. If the sentence construction were “Andrew and I were lucky enough to go to private school” that would be correct English usage (due to the fact if I subtract ‘Andrew’ the sentence is still grammatically melodious to the ear. Don’t tread where you have no knowledge.
M. Duchamp – Discussing the logic of my arguments will hold more water when I hear you discuss the ad hominem attacks and straw man arguments put forth by RyANNE. As your attorney relatives will tell you, attorneys are trained to argue a myriad of positions. Temper tantrums don’t count in the arena of argument.
November 4th, 2005 at 12:52 pm“Don’t tread where you have no knowledge.
Comment by MightyZionistIgnorantWindbag,”
You tread where you have no knowledge daily, it would suit you and your fellow ignorant republicans to all heed your advice!
You’re a great example of how a supposedly good education often still turns out an ignorant fool.
November 4th, 2005 at 12:53 pmMightyWindbag,
It is ye who makes attacks and strawmen, it is also ye who projects hatred, violence and any number of other traits on others because they are so natural to you. You are a retard and a hateful bitch – nothing more.
November 4th, 2005 at 12:58 pmI wouldn’t raise taxes – I would cut all the unnecessary sh&t out of the budget
November 4th, 2005 at 1:02 pm#107
November 4th, 2005 at 1:04 pmOh silly Aphrodite, I only have to defend what I say. I’m usually pretty careful to keep my foot out of my mouth… I can’t be held responsible for other peoples’ comments.
“Well then you aren’t a republican. See, since republicans took over congress, the number of pork projects has increased 10 fold.” – RyANNE
ALERT THE MEDIA – - RyANNE, I AGREE WITH YOU!!! I am DISGUSTED by the fat and pork in congressional legislation!!! (Think of how much I could CUT if I was able to impact legislation!!) The difference between the two of us is your rabid ideolgy – I am intellectually honest enough to agree with you that spending (and the power it generates and fosters) is a corrupting influence. I’m sure you will see NOTHING positive in my comments – but I was a young and rebellious kid once myself….
November 4th, 2005 at 1:10 pm” I’m sure you will see NOTHING positive in my comments – but I was a young and rebellious kid once myself….”MightyFunny
Well, I knew you’d find a way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. You’re WRONG AGAIN :)
Actually that’s a big move on your part, and I most certainly do see positive in it. See unlike you who is a rabid partisan, I am in fact an american. While I know that for the most part you and your party is comprised of fools and idiots, I also know that even a fool is occassionally correct – today was your day.
You aren’t the 100% partisan failure you have been up until now, you’re at 99.8%. Now wake up and realize that republicans are as bad at EVERYTHING as they are at this! Whatever your grandmother and those nuns did to you in your childhood, get over it. Republican values are those of a child, just like yours and your arguments. Grow up!
November 4th, 2005 at 1:17 pmAnd Mighty Windbag, let me be more clear since you don’t seem very smart – you still ARE a child – that’s the problem!
November 4th, 2005 at 1:17 pm“Young Republican children?” – GEESH! HOW MUCH MORE FASICT NAZI STYLE CAN THEY GET?
I DIDN’T KNOW CHILDREN WERE BORN REPUBLICAN.
Grover Norquist, president of Americans for Tax reform, attacked Referendum C supporter Gov. Bill Owens (R):
Young Republican children years from now will be scared in campground campfires by stories about Bill Owens – the tax-cutting Republican who magically turned into a tax-increase bad guy…and they will not be able to sleep all night.
November 4th, 2005 at 1:19 pm#112
I wish you would be more “intellectually honest” in relation to your stated opinions on the “war on terror.”
#107 “As your attorney relatives will tell you, attorneys are trained to argue a myriad of positions. Temper tantrums don’t count in the arena of argument.”
That statement is correct, especially when you’re hired to defend an individual who’s poor decisions have gotten them into trouble.
What I don’t understand is that your personal opinions, specifically in national security areas, seem ill-informed, short-sighted and illogical. Being a lawyer, you should have access to Lexis Nexis; why don’t you look some stuff up and draw some informed conclusions?
There are a number of thoughtful Republicans who understand the dynamics in the Middle East and have very good ideas on how to move forward with our current national security predicament; it just appears that our administration ignores these people.
November 4th, 2005 at 1:28 pmThe problem with republicans, if they have an opinion entering into an argument, there’s no way to change that opinion with facts. They’re irrational, hysterical and frankly stupid at that point.
November 4th, 2005 at 1:29 pmMDuchamp,
Part of the pathology of conservatism is that it’s based on ‘opinions’ and not facts. Therefore true research is seen as threatening. The only research republicans do is sit on echo chambers and spout the same lies around. This is what windbag and the other idiots do on the free republic. They turn of their brains, turn on their hate, and live in a world of utter ignorance.
November 4th, 2005 at 1:33 pm#118
In my eternal optimism, I guess I’m the type of guy who tries to pick the nuggets of golden corn out of this big pile of sh*t that our political system has become.
To name names, I believe Fareed Zakaria is a Republican. I’ve read a number of his columns, which come off as well reasoned and realistic when it comes to the Middle East.
I’m not sure what Norm Ornstein’s party affiliation is (he’s with the AEI), but he’s another person who generally provides thoughtful opinions steeped in facts.
While I don’t disagree with you that the general trend in the modern conservative movement is destructive to our democracy, I still believe that there are a few individuals and possibly institutions that aren’t echo chambers for political hacks. I could be wrong, but I hope not.
November 4th, 2005 at 1:53 pmMDuchamp,
Optimism and hope is a good thing, but while I agree that many republicans show glimmers that they possess rational and capable intellects, in my experience few of them actually use them for anything but cursory points. They disengage their reason and ration as soon as anything challenges their preconceptions. Some have religious opinions (particularly irrational are the anti-gay, anti-abortion and anti-evolution freaks), others have opinions around free range capitalism (taxes and civil society scare them for some bizarre reason), others have opinions around america’s role in Israel and the world stage that make them whacko.
The problem is these people ignore all evidence that show them their opinion is ill informed and irrational, and instead they just yell louder like some tourist in a foreign land who doesn’t speak the language but yells english louder hoping to be understood. They’re just incapable of (or unwilling to) recognizing that they are the one who doesn’t get it!
November 4th, 2005 at 2:46 pm#116 – “What I don’t understand is that your personal opinions, specifically in national security areas, seem ill-informed, short-sighted and illogical.” I would more than happy to provide you with the reasoning behind my opinions, but you are vague and non-specific. Which national security area would you like to discuss? The Middle East?? South America? Mexico? North Korea???
“(particularly irrational are the anti-gay, anti-abortion and anti-evolution freaks)” – RyANNE
You might have noticed, with your tremendous intellectual insight , that ANYONE who disagrees with RyANNE is characterized as a “freak, extremist, whacko, Nazi, fascist, bitch, etc. etc. That poor person will never win friends and influence people.
Rarely, if ever, do I see great logic or information come from the blogs – it is generally people’s opinion – but perhaps my only success in my profession is the ability to relate to people in ways THEY understand – juries seem to like that and I find it serves my clients well. Our clients expect zealous and vigorous representation.
November 4th, 2005 at 5:14 pm#121 “I would more than happy to provide you with the reasoning behind my opinions, but you are vague and non-specific. Which national security area would you like to discuss? The Middle East?? South America? Mexico? North Korea???”
OK, Aphrodite, I’ve got some questions for you to answer. I expect you to cite some sources to substantiate your arguments. Please provide links so that we may read your sources.
1) In order to solve a problem, one has to understand what is causing it. What are the root causes of radical Islamic terrorism as it pertains to the United States?
2) What policies are currently in place to deal with these causes?
3) What are the long-term implications of these policies?
4) How do these policies affect our relationship and standing with our allies and trade partners across the globe?
5) How do these policies affect our relationships with other Middles Eastern countries, specifically Iran and Saudi Arabia.
5) How do these policies affect democracy in our own country?
6) What are the long-term effects (decades) to our economy, since we’ll be fighting this “war on terror” for decades?
7) What do you consider reasonable and acceptable costs (in flesh, money, civil liberties) in fighting terrorism?
8) How does one measure success?
9) What are the conditions for victory?
10) How does invading Iraq fit in with fighting terrorism?
November 4th, 2005 at 6:55 pm“Rarely, if ever, do I see great logic or information come from the blogs
Comment by mightyIgnorant”
Well, that’s mainly due to your stupidity, ignorance and poor reading comprehension. You really should stop blaming others for your failures, it appears to be a re-occurring theme in your life. It’s always someone isn’t it? Your husband, your assistant, the muslims, the unions. Always someone who makes you unhappy.
You’re a patethic and stupid wretch who lashes out because you are unhappy with yourself. But you’re too stupid and wretched to realize this. Stop being such a stupid and psychotic hellbitch and actually do your research for a change and you might learn something. People provide you countless research, heck I’ve corrected you on lies on several occasion. And what do you do when corrected? Ignore these corrections and the SOURCE MATERIALS and repost the same lies.
You don’t learn because you’re a stupid idiot. You can bring a jackass bitch to the water, but you can’t make her drink. You are exactly why this expression exists.
November 4th, 2005 at 7:49 pmMightyWindbag,
Still feel that the ‘yachting industry’ was destroyed by the democratic luxury tax? That’s always a fun example of how stupid and irresponsible you are with your posts. You post a lie and a smear. I correct it showed you that the yachting industry died before the tax was ever proposed, and what did you do? Ignored the fact that you had lied every time I posted.
You do learn things, but your ego and ignorance are so vast that you refuse to acknowledge or learn. This is a FOOL, and that’s your problem. For all of your ’supposed’ education (which so far looks unlikely) you are a FOOL, A LIAR AND AN IDIOT!
November 4th, 2005 at 8:12 pmOh and windbag, my favorite part was that the tax was passed by BUSH! You’re such an idiot. It’s a good thing lawyers have clerks that do all of the research, clearly you suck at it.
November 4th, 2005 at 9:18 pm#125 – …. PROPOSED and voted for by a DEM congress with the affirmation of GHWB – Youa always seem to forget HALF of the story. The DUMBEST thing he ever did was trust a Democrats word.
November 5th, 2005 at 2:28 pm#122 via #121
November 5th, 2005 at 2:51 pmIs that the sound of crickets?
I don’t have time to answer each and every one of your “thoughtful,penetrating” q’s at one time – but we’ll start – Their are several “root causes” for radical Islamism “as it pertains to the United States”. Radical clerics, taking advantage of poverty or misplaced religiosity, have convinced the masses that their “plight” is the fault of Israel – with the mighty backing of the US (Holy War, Inc – by Peter Bergen). (I have always been sympathetic to Jews and Israelis because of the avowed committment of Arabs to wipe kout Israel – colour me sentimental.) They do not mention (ever!) the fact that Jordan supplanted and executed thousands of Palestinians. They rarely mention the support the Arab world does not offer Palestinians – until to do so is a benefit to entrenched Arab gov’t (ie. Saudi Arabia). The United States close ties with Israel are based on the strong Jewish American political lobbies. In addition, support for Israel has strong US support as Israelis are prepared to act militarily in ways the US was not (in the 1980’s and prior) disposed to do (ie. taking out Saddam Husseins’ nuclear reactor.) The US made a show of feign indignation – but that indignation was very superficial. However, I do not give Israel a pass on anything and everything. I condemn the Israeli spy, Jonathan Pollard, and believe his life-sentence is more than justified.
Religiosity, rather than economic disability, appears to be the most important directive when discussing extreme Islamists like: bin Laden, “Dr.”Zawahiri, Zarquawi. This is a supposition as I do believe in “pure evil” – and evil rather than religiosity may be a motivating factor. Several friends who are sympathetic to the situation of the Palestinians , refuse to discuss four factors:
a.) no Israeli homeland
b.) lack of Palestinian assistance by “caring” Arabs
c.) developement of industry in Israel – with subsidies from the US. (You would think this would be a hot topic for them but they don’t want to re-visit what wealthy Arabs HAVE NOT done.)
d.) there is no “making peace” with Islamic fanatics.
It is interesting to note that the AP is falling into the PC line by not mentioning that rioting youth outside Paris are Muslims (but then again they “forgot” to mention that that the violent demonstrators in Argentina were proudly waving their Communist flags. Who knew??
November 5th, 2005 at 8:20 pm#7.) I will answer this one quickly -
I would expend whatever is necessary (”flesh and $$$”) to vanquish the enemies of our country. I say this as a veteran, the wife of a veteran and the sister of an active duty Navy fighter pilot who returned from his third tour of duty since 9/11. As far as civil liberties, I would be very PC incorrect and search everyone who looked Middle Eastern. I say this as the wife of a olive skinned man of Mediterranean extraction who is pulled out of line from almost every flight we have taken since Sept. ‘01. (I asked Mr. Aphrodite if this bothered him. His ressponse: “Hell no. Until little Swedish grandma’s start hijacking planes and plowing them into buildings, they should check everyone who looks like me.” From my point of view, this is WWIII and I am positive FDR felt the same way fighting the Nazi’s and the Japanese. Unfortunately, I would be willing to severly curtail visas (both student and tourist) to people from many Muslim countries. I would like to see strenuous border security since Middle Easterners have been using our southern border to gain access and then disappear in the US. There are those out there who would willingly give in to every Islamofascist demand in order to avoid or curtail an awful, horrific war -I am NOT one of them. I realize my prejudice affects innocent and loyal citizens – I am not asking for incarceration the way we did in the 40’s. But I am sadly doisppointed how few Muslim leaders have openly challenged or denounced the extremists. To those leaders who have openly criticized the meathod and means employed by radicals I extend my profound appreciztion.
#128 – 131
My current understanding of the situation is that while religious fanaticism does play a role in terrorism, it is not the cause, but an avenue through which to organize and respond to foreign occupation.
Historically speaking, there are obvious cause and effect dynamics at play in the Middle East. Egypt, under English occupation, suffered sustained acts of terrorism in the 1940s and 1950s at the hands of the Muslim Brotherhood (which formed as a reaction to being occupied during WW2). In Algeria, during the 50s and 60s, the French suffered bomb attacks and assassinations by the Salafis, who radicalized to expel the colonists. In south Lebanon during the 80s, Israeli occupiers suffered terrorist attacks by the Hizbullah, who formed in answer to that occupation. When Sadat made peace with Israel, he was seen as enabling Israel to do as they please with the Palestinians. In answer to this, former disbanded members of the Muslim Brotherhood became radicalized and assassinated him. Hamas formed out of economic squalor and desperation in the occupation of Gaza. Al Quaeda formed out of the Soviets occupation of Afghanistan, the US’s presence in Saudi Arabia and now the US’s occupation of Iraq.
Arguments that terrorism arises out of a contempt for freedom or basic religious beliefs (none of which condone killing or murder) are not valid. The evidence suggests that religious groups radicalize and commit terroist acts is in response to occupation.
November 6th, 2005 at 11:56 am#128 Mighty- I’m sorry, I just read that you’re a hateful lying bitch. Ryan has once again deciphered your code words and found you morally lacking. We wait for Ryan’s judgement as the Imam of the kool-aid left.
November 6th, 2005 at 6:30 pmGood luck, and Good Night!
Ryan- NO, you are the zealot of left wing religiosity. your lunatic lefty ideas are what …..hold on….I’m laughing too hard to finish baiting you into another diatribe…..give me a moment to compose myself…
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