Why Bush’s Case On Iraq Was Different From Clinton’s
Why Bush’s Case On Iraq Was Different From Clinton’s
The Bush administration’s talking point these days in defending its use of false pre-war intelligence is to blame Clinton. Scott McClellan said last week that critics “might want to start with looking at the previous administration.†Sen. George Allen (R-VA) repeated the mantra on CNN this Sunday: “[R]ecognize that even the Clinton administration thought Saddam posed a threat.†And Bill Kristol writes in the Weekly Standard that the White House should “fight back†by pointing out that Clinton administration officials “believed that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction.â€
To justify the war against Iraq, the Bush administration made a number of exaggerated and misleading claims about the Iraqi threat that went far beyond the public statements issued by the Clinton administration. Going beyond the argument that Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction, the Bush administration made a unique case on two specific fronts to justify the war: the supposed connections to al Qaeda and the Iraqi nuclear threat.
The administration argued that the evidence in these two areas amounted to a “grave and gathering threat” in a “post-September 11th world.” On the eve of the Iraq war, Bush said:
The danger is clear: Using chemical, biological or, one day, nuclear weapons obtained with the help of Iraq, the terrorists could fulfill their stated ambitions and kill thousands or hundreds of thousands of innocent people in our country, or any other.
The imagery was clear: terrorists, such as those that attacked on 9/11, could do far greater damage with nuclear weapons, and the Iraqi regime was helping to make that scenario a reality. In fact, the evidence behind the supposed Iraq/al Qaeda connection and the evidence on the nuclear threat have turned out to be the weakest links in the case for war. See the evidence below:
LIES ABOUT IRAQ/AL QAEDA LINKS
What Bush Said: “Iraq has trained al Qaeda members in bomb-making and poisons and deadly gases.†[10/7/02]
What They Knew: The Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) reported in February 2002 that the source of the claim – a detained al Qaeda terrorist — “could not name any Iraqis involved, any chemical or biological material used or where the training occurred. As a result, ‘it is more likely this individual is intentionally misleading the debriefers.’” [WP, 11/6/05]
What Bush Said: Saddam is “a man who loves to link up with al Qaeda.” [9/28/02]
What They Knew: “One week after the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, White House counterterrorism director Paul Kurtz wrote in a memo to national security adviser Condoleezza Rice that no ‘compelling case’ existed for Iraq’s involvement in the attacks and that links between al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein’s government were weak.” [WP, 7/22/04]
What Bush Said: Saddam is “a threat because he is dealing with al Qaeda.” [11/7/02]
What They Knew: “Responding to a presidential tasking, Clarke’s office sent a memo to Rice on September 18, titled ‘Survey of Intelligence Information on Any Iraq Involvement in the September 11 Attacks.’ Rice’s chief staffer on Afghanistan, Zalmay Khalilzad, concurred in its conclusion that only some anecdotal evidence linked Iraq to al Qaeda. The memo found no ‘compelling case’ that Iraq had either planned or perpetrated the attacks.” [9-11 Commission]
LIES ABOUT NUCLEAR THREAT
What Bush Said: “The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.” [2003 State of the Union]
What They Knew: The administration was warned at least three times not to make the claim that Iraq was seeking uranium from Africa. Also, the CIA said the “Brits have exaggerated this issue.†[Guardian, 7/10/04]
What Bush Said: Iraq “has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes suitable for nuclear weapons production.” [2003 State of the Union]
What They Knew: “Ms. Rice’s staff had been told that the government’s foremost nuclear experts seriously doubted that the tubes were for nuclear weapons, according to four officials at the Central Intelligence Agency and two senior administration officials.†The day before Bush’s State of the Union address, the IAEA told the Security Council that it had found no evidence of a revived nuclear weapons program in Iraq. “‘From our analysis to date,’ the agency reported, ‘it appears that the aluminum tubes would be consistent with the purpose stated by Iraq and, unless modified, would not be suitable for manufacturing centrifuges.’” [NYT, 10/3/04]
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The biggest difference between the two is that Clinton succeeded in isolating Saddam and turning 3/4ths of his country into a “no-fly zone” and Bush decided isolation wasn’t enough and he needed war. Oh, “and don’t forget, this is the man that tried to kill my father, Bush said.” Clinton followed what Bush 41 wrote about in his book(Taking Bagdad was not worth the consequnces or the benefits)and he appears to have been correct.
November 7th, 2005 at 1:29 pmI don’t remember the Clinton Administration ever invading Iraq. Does anyone?
No they didn’t. Classic case of bushco nat taking responsibility for their actions and trying to blame someone who wasn’t even at the party. This is republican responsibility? To act like children?
November 7th, 2005 at 1:31 pmThis “mantra” will be used to choke the lying left when they attack Bush’s reasons for the war. The right-wing is going to hit back and hit back hard. Liberals have had a nice year, but this year will end.
AND if you think for one second we will let the left propogate lies about the President and the war without retaliation, you’re fooling yourself. We will swiftboat your asses just like we did Kerry. Then you will all cry smear.
November 7th, 2005 at 1:33 pmKindness – talk to me in a year. Let’s see how much success you have lying. Probably as much as John Kerry and Tom Daschle did.
November 7th, 2005 at 1:34 pmYea, Ned is going to swiftboat us. By that do you mean make up lies that will be debunked?
November 7th, 2005 at 1:34 pm#3 – Then retaliate and debunk each point laid out above! Or are you holding off until you get Ken Mehlman’s e-mail ?
November 7th, 2005 at 1:36 pmWe laugh in your general direction, NeD. *giggle* I think you need some oxycontin.
November 7th, 2005 at 1:37 pm#5 – Swifties did NOT make up lies. They showed Kerry for the war criminal and LIAR that he was. Just like the Swifties, we will take your own words and use them against you. Cindy Sheehan will be splattered all over GOP ads – “Do you want people like this influencing your leaders?” The response will be NO.
This campaign season will be fun because Republicans are sick of liberal lies. AND unlike you idiots, we know how to win elections.
November 7th, 2005 at 1:38 pmThinkprogress,
Another subtle Repub. talking point that’s being propogated by all, including Sen. Pat Roberts, is that Phase II is ONLY about whether “manipulation” took place to change the intelligence product. In reality, it’s more about how the final product was taken and THEN exaggerated in public statements. This talking point needs to be strongly debunked.
November 7th, 2005 at 1:39 pmNED NED NED,
You have a serious issue. The Democrats don’t have to propogate lies about the war, Bush and company are doing that just fine by themselves.
I suppose that we don’t torture either? Is that why Bush and Cheney are trying so hard to ensure that they cannot be held legally responsible for torture if they are caught?
Wake up and smell the coffee.
Also, I see that you are still acting like a little child. Can you at least one time hold a conversation like an adult?
November 7th, 2005 at 1:40 pmYes Ned, did you ask your doctor’s permission before discontinuing your medication?
November 7th, 2005 at 1:40 pmHmm, there’s this: http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/powell-no-wmd.htm
http://www.kurd.org/newsletters/20041010055933.html
Scott Ritter was right – the WMD were destroyed by the sanctions and inspections, Powell and Rice agreed. Clinton is irrelevant.
Your a sad, delusional individual Ned, but I suppose your mother still loves you.
November 7th, 2005 at 1:41 pm“AND unlike you idiots, we know how to win elections.”
Comment by The Northeast Dilemma — November 7, 2005 @ 1:38 pm
Replace “win” with “steal” and you’re right on target!
November 7th, 2005 at 1:42 pm#10 – Americans are not opposed to torture if it means saving lives. The Abu Ghraib scandal exposed liberals as the terrorist sympathizing lot that they are.
Thank god you people weren’t around during World War II. FDR would have never been able to win the war with people like you comforting the enemy.
November 7th, 2005 at 1:43 pm#14 – FDR would have choked himself to death if he had read your posts, NeD. I mean seriously, invoking FDR? You?
November 7th, 2005 at 1:46 pmNed, isn’t it time to switch to IRI? You’re getting your butt kicked again, better switch.
November 7th, 2005 at 1:46 pmNED,
You keep using “we” when you speak of what the “right-wing” is up to, what its plans are and how “they” will carry it all out. i.e. post #3.
What part do you play?
When you say “we” then it’s assumed that “you” are actually taking an active part in the play. If so, which part are you playing? A cheerleader perhaps? Someone who cheers for a team no matter what the situation without critical thinking or objective reasoning? Some call these types puppets. Are you one of these people? Or are you actually in the meeting rooms with all the “big wigs?”
“States are not moral agents.” -Chomsky
November 7th, 2005 at 1:46 pmNED, your life is a lie.
Torture DOES NOT WORK, but it sure does ‘get off’ psychopath and S&M perverts like you…
November 7th, 2005 at 1:47 pm#15 – do you support Truman’s decision to nuke Hiroshima? Yes or no.
November 7th, 2005 at 1:47 pmNED have you ever served in the military?
I have, and I can tell you that torture does not provide factual information. If you start cutting my toes off one by one, I’m going to make stuff up just so you stop.
Torture is an ineffective way of obtaining information. Yes, you MIGHT obtain a very small portion of information that MIGHT be true. However, more than not the information received from torture is going to be inaccurate.
The only way to get information effectively is to continue to interview the individual and catch them in their differences in their stories. This is more effective than torture and much more reliable.
Tell me what your military experience is and what evidence you have that shows torture is more effective than the standard interview method.
November 7th, 2005 at 1:48 pmRyan – you should answer that to – was the US wrong to bomb Hiroshima? I am interested in what liberals define as a just war.
November 7th, 2005 at 1:48 pm#8
“Swifties did NOT make up lies.”
Yes they did. It doesn’t matter if you put not in all capitals. It doesn’t change the fact that they lied and were shown to be liars. So, go back to your little dream world where everything is puppies and sugar plums. Just don’t watch or read the news as your party goes down.
I should say “We will CRUSH you.”
You’re a freaking joke NeD.
November 7th, 2005 at 1:49 pmNED’s just a stupid republican teenage girl. She’s so stupid and in over her head she can’t even see it.
America hates republican values.
America hates republicans.
America wants democrats in office.
The latest poll showed that 55% of americans want DEMOCRATIC CONTROL OF CONGRESS, and only 30 some percent favor republicans.
REPUBLICANS ARE LOSERS, LIARS, CHEATERS AND THEIVES – REPUBLICANS ARE UNAMERICAN, UNDEMOCRATIC FASCIST TERRORISTS.
November 7th, 2005 at 1:49 pmCalling Aphrodite! Ned’s on the ropes!
November 7th, 2005 at 1:49 pm#20 – I have many concerns over the war, one of them is not torture. I am more concerned about our boys dying and what their families are going through. I don’t care about terrorists unlike liberals.
November 7th, 2005 at 1:49 pmRyan – while you have polls, I have 55 senators. One is more tangible.
November 7th, 2005 at 1:50 pm#14
“Americans are not opposed to torture if it means saving lives.”
Oh yes they are you psycho.
November 7th, 2005 at 1:50 pmNED,
Japan attacked us, you’re not only OFF TOPIC, you’re off your meds. Just because Republicans FAKED EVIDENCE, COMMITTED TREASON BY OUTING A CIA AGENT and WAGED AN ILLEGAL WAR BY DECEIVING CONGRESS, you can’t face it. You’re a DELUSIONAL PSYCHOPATH who can’t face the fact that you’re just another lying, cheating traiterous terrorist! You’re just a stupid, hysterical hateful little girl NED.
November 7th, 2005 at 1:51 pm#27 – prove it
November 7th, 2005 at 1:51 pmThing is 90% of the people at Abu Ghraib were released. Seems to me they were not bad people after all. Perhaps ramming a broomstick up their rectums turns them into bad people. It would me, I know that. The trouble is, how do you know that someone is a ‘bad guy’ before you ram the broomstick up their rectums?
So you see, if you are in the wrong place at the wrong time Ned, maybe you’d get a broomstick rammed up your rectum as part of finding out if you are a bad guy or not. Maybe you’d be OK with that, maybe not. Perhaps you think that because you are a pimply white guy, they will let you have access to a lawyer and something called ‘due process’. Maybe you think that only people with turbans and headscarves need the broomstick up the rectum, because they are all bad guys…
And the FDR stuff? Did you notice which side was putting the broomsticks up the rectums as part of their war effort?
“Americans are not opposed to torture if it means saving lives” – the “we’re don’t torture as many or as bad as them” defence. So you have no principles at all Ned, I guess I knew that already.
November 7th, 2005 at 1:52 pm#26
“Ryan – while you have polls, I have 55 senators. One is more tangible.”
And they are walking away from the Bush administration and not looking back. They want to get reelected. Bush isn’t going to help them do that.
Say goodbye to your stranglehold.
November 7th, 2005 at 1:53 pmRyan – yes, but Germany did not attack us.
No one committed treason in Plamegate either. I think it’s called obstruction of justice and lying – but, don’t let facts get in the way of your propoganda.
November 7th, 2005 at 1:53 pm“I don’t care about terrorists unlike liberals.”
Comment by The Northeast Dilemma — November 7, 2005 @ 1:49 pm
Unconscious irony or mental disorder?
November 7th, 2005 at 1:53 pmI feel much safer knowing that red meat is hanging off of some poor Iraqis schmeckel while hungry dogs look for dinner……… as we speak.
November 7th, 2005 at 1:54 pm#29
55% of Americans want you scumbags out of office. That is the proof.
November 7th, 2005 at 1:54 pmNED,
The fact that you don’t mind torture just confirms to everyone that you’re unamerican and a psychopath.
November 7th, 2005 at 1:54 pm#19 – NeD – “liberals” are independent thinkers, so we don’t have a unified view based on Ken Mehlman’s e-mails. But me personally, I think the bombing of Hiroshima was one of the worst evils ever perpetrated on humanity.
The diary of President Truman’s Chief of Staff, Adm. William D. Leahy, wrote that “the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender. … In being the first to use it, we … adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages.”
November 7th, 2005 at 1:54 pm#32
“No one committed treason in Plamegate either. I think it’s called obstruction of justice and lying – but, don’t let facts get in the way of your propoganda.”
The investigation isn’t over. You don’t have any idea who will ne charged with what. STFU.
November 7th, 2005 at 1:55 pmTorture is something the left uses to undermine the war effort and denigrate our troops. That is TREASON. You people are hoping and praying that we lose the war.
It is sad when you cheer your enemies. Traitors.
November 7th, 2005 at 1:55 pm“No one committed treason in Plamegate either. I think it’s called obstruction of justice and lying – but, don’t let facts get in the way of your propoganda.”
Not so fast, sparky. The ump still has to clear the sand from his eyes.
November 7th, 2005 at 1:56 pmNED, so then you have not served in the military and you have no idea of what it is like to be in a combat situation! Perhaps you should join, and then you might have a better understanding of what our “boys” are going through.
Let me say that when you torture someone, you make their drive, and hatred stronger. Therefore, you do nothing to weaken the terrorist you make it stronger.
This is the difference between arm chair warriors like you and a real American. We realize that if you wear down the enimy that you obtain more useful information then if you just force it out of them.
November 7th, 2005 at 1:56 pmNED
November 7th, 2005 at 1:56 pmgive it a rest, will you.
It’s always the same: It’s Clinton’s fault, Kerry is a liar and you won and we lost…..
We’re getting tired of reading this over and over again, aren’t you getting tired of TYPING it?
Oh wait, my bad, you can COPY and PASTE *g*
DF – that’s interesting. At least your honest.
November 7th, 2005 at 1:56 pmNED, Germany and Japan were part of the same alliance. When Japan attacked us, so did germany by alliance. Your ignorance of history is as profound as your ignorance of the present. No wonder you’re a republican, you’re so stupid and foolish you don’t know anything about anything!
November 7th, 2005 at 1:57 pmRyan – go raise taxes and spur growth. You’re dipshit who probably got beat up in school.
November 7th, 2005 at 1:58 pm“Torture is something the left uses to undermine the war effort and denigrate our troops. That is TREASON. ”
Blah, Blah, Blah. What would a traitor and treasonous republican who lies to congress and fabricates evidence to go to war illegally know about treason. What would a republican fascist who steals election, and bombs abortion clinics know about treason.
NED your existence in this country is treasonous by its very existence. REPUBLICANS ARE ALL TRAITORS TO AMERICA!
November 7th, 2005 at 1:59 pm#45
Yes, tax breaks for the rich is a much better policy.
November 7th, 2005 at 1:59 pmNED,
I’m Irish, I learned how to fight when I learned how to walk, and I can honestly say that I’ve never been beaten up once in my life, but clearly you have… No wonder you’re such a hysterical and hateful little girl.
November 7th, 2005 at 2:00 pmRyan – sure. You got beat up – that is why you are angry.
November 7th, 2005 at 2:00 pmRaising taxes on the wealthy is a PROVEN economic stimulus. But then again, Delusional republicans live in a hysterical fantasy land where swiftboat lies are truth, and forged Niger documents are true. Republicans are consistenly delusional retards and religious terrorists.
November 7th, 2005 at 2:01 pmNED,
I can also honestly say I’ve never gone to ‘beat up’ someone either. You know, when people view the world in only those who beat up, or get beaten up, it’s a clear sign of Paranoid Personality disorder. You really should go to therapy, you’re not well…
November 7th, 2005 at 2:02 pmNED = Neurologically and Emotionally Disturbed
November 7th, 2005 at 2:02 pmNED, go kick a begger, blame some victims, or go and savagely attack someone, then call them savages etc.,etc.
November 7th, 2005 at 2:02 pmRemember all you have to do to win elections is put Gay initiatives on 11 states and out of FEAR homophobes, please read current republican voters, the election is yours. Mission accomplished. I love the bumper stciker that says” I wasn’t using all of my civil liberties.” Untill everyone who hated the dope smoking hippies for ruining the country over Viet-nam are dead they just live in fear of anything the big flag waving rightous pols tell them . Karl Rove is a genius and unfortunately peversly motivated.NED do really think it’s fair to ask a crucial question that was made 50 years ago. Context of times is everyting and in the current context I’d say you arguments are light weight you would make a lousy bully and I’m sure your blind faith in the current administration has crippled your ability to see past some really good arguments being made. The issue is transparency, when the administration demanded so much secrecy, legitmate questions were raised and instantly stiffled and their answer was National Security. Come on INQUIRING MINDS WANT TO KNOW.
November 7th, 2005 at 2:03 pmNED,
My opinion, the bombing of Hiroshima AND Nagasaki was genocide; equivalent to Hitler’s or any other that has occurred before it or since.
“States are not moral agents.” -Chomsky
November 7th, 2005 at 2:03 pmFlyMan
You don’t have to be a genius (Rove) when the voting machines are rigged…
November 7th, 2005 at 2:03 pmNed, you’re such a puss. What’s that sissy-assed wording about the rightwing “hitting back and hitting back hard” in #3? And then bringing up the swiftboat bunch like there is any threat left to their slimball tricks. I’m almost ashamed to claim you as a fellow conservative.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but are you one of Arnold’s girlie-men, or are you just naturally effeminate when making a statement? I mean, the liberals and progressives would accept you for it, but us rightwingers and rednecks are starting to think you sound a little punk. Trust me, NED, some guy like I-RIGHT-I or Real American will want to beat the crap out of you for it.
November 7th, 2005 at 2:05 pmHey NeD, we here think abortions are fun and try to get pregnant often just for the sheer enjoyment. We love it when America is attacked too. Actually, we are starting a petition in Iran to see if they will attack us here on our soil. We think it is really cool too, when our soldiers are killed. Oh, yeah, and we here at TP hope we lose the war in Iraq. Don’t forget that we worship terrorists.
Doesn’t that sound stupid? That would be your argument, NeD – just stupid.
November 7th, 2005 at 2:06 pmWe’re buggering them over there, so we don’t have to bugger them over here…
November 7th, 2005 at 2:07 pmJOE – STFU. You’re an idiot and I could careless what you think about anything. Most conservatives I know thought th Swiftboats did the public a service.
November 7th, 2005 at 2:07 pmBack to the subject of the main post, who all here thinks “But.. but.. Clinton said there were weapons too” is one of the most sissy talking points Mehlman ever came up with?
November 7th, 2005 at 2:07 pmNeD doesn’t get out much – obviously.
November 7th, 2005 at 2:08 pmSomebody call NED’s mom and tell her to take the computer away from her. She’s too young and childish to be playing with adults.
November 7th, 2005 at 2:08 pmThe republicans have to lie, but the truth never supports their position or the delusions.
The republicans lied about Iraq, because Israel wanted Iraq to go away. They were still mad at their missile attacks from the first gulf war, and this was merely a war of vengeance and lies.
November 7th, 2005 at 2:09 pm#61 – it’s not a talking point – it’s true. Was anyone in this blog outraged when Clinton bombed Iraq on the eve of his impeachment? Doubtful.
AND I am sure if Kerry were elected, the war would suddenly be a noble cause among the radical left in this blog.
November 7th, 2005 at 2:09 pm#63 HA! I was thinking the EXACT same thing. I was going to post that I heard his mommy calling. But then I remembered his mommy doesn’t love him or he wouldn’t be so insecure as to HAVE to post here with us – those that are closest to his mommy to him.
Sad, but funny.
November 7th, 2005 at 2:11 pmStupid NeD. We don’t follow others blindly. That’s you.
November 7th, 2005 at 2:12 pmPP – I am the one with problems when you folks have to resort to name calling???? Shouldn’t you be working your Republicans right now?
November 7th, 2005 at 2:12 pmJust wait until you see what we’re going to do the day we’re impeached. Clinton was a pussy!
November 7th, 2005 at 2:12 pmNED, you started the name calling back in #4. F***wit.
November 7th, 2005 at 2:14 pmNED,
You justify a full scale invasion, simply because Clinton and THE UN bombed Iraq. Not only are you comparing apples to oranges, but you’re comparing good leadership (Clinton) with irresponsible intelligence fixing and lies of Bush.
Clinton bombed because Iraq wouldn’t allow the weapons inspectors to continue their work. And guess what, not only did Clinton get what he wanted, but according to the BUSH WEAPONS INSPECTORS – CLINTON’S POLICIES WORKED.
Not only was Clinton a more effective leader, but he was a more HONEST leader.
BUSH IS A BIG FAT STUPID LIAR AND SO IS Neurotic, and Emotionally Disturbed NED.
November 7th, 2005 at 2:14 pmNED Bush’s reasons for war were illegal, immoral, unwarranted and unprecedented. Bush lied and you know it. You cannot defend him, so you will resort to “swiftboat” tactics — meaning what? That you will hire liars to repeat your and Bush’s version of the truth?
November 7th, 2005 at 2:14 pmI haven’t heard that Sheehan has had much influence on the politicians. If you cared about our dead soldiers and their families, you would be asking questions of your commander in chief, like so many of your Republican Senators are beginning to do.
#60
“Most conservatives I know thought th Swiftboats did the public a service.”
Exactly how the lies were planned. Swifties lie. Idiot republicans believe it. Next smear campaign. Rinse and repeat.
November 7th, 2005 at 2:15 pmNED,
The problem with you is that you’re retarded, and so stupid you don’t recognize the difference between a descriptive adjective and name calling.
BUSH LIED.
BUSH FABRICATED EVIDENCE.
BUSH WAGED AN ILLEGAL WAR OF AGGRESSION.
REPUBLICANS ARE DANGEROUS AND VIOLENT TERRORISTS
November 7th, 2005 at 2:15 pm#65
“AND I am sure if Kerry were elected, the war would suddenly be a noble cause among the radical left in this blog.”
There wouldn’t have been a republican lead war if Kerry was in. You’re a retard.
November 7th, 2005 at 2:16 pmCountries that have waged Pre-Emptive wars they claimed were to protect themselves from an enemy in the last 60 years:
Germany
Israel
Iraq
US
That’s horrible company to keep, and it just goes to show you what happens when the good people of 4 otherwise decent countries have fascist and milataristic leaders who takeover!
November 7th, 2005 at 2:17 pmMarie – you people are the liars trying to smear Bush. Just like Kerry did. You went after Bush’s guard record and then cried smear when we nailed Kerry on his war crimes.
Marie – the left has injected hate in this debate and the right is fighting back. You hatred for Bush started this. BUSH DID NOT LIE. Get over it.
Ryan – Clinton was not an effective leader. He NEVER had the challenges that Bush had.
November 7th, 2005 at 2:17 pmWhy are you all responding to and carrying on with a known troll here @ TP? You all know it gets you no where so why bother? Let the cretin cry in the wilderness.
Don’t feed the trolls. any feeding just stokes their interest. Hell even beatings are mistaken for the attention they need. Don’t even beat the trolls. They are sick and pathetic. If you touch them, who knows what you’ll come down with? Do you know where that troll has been? Me, I don’t wanna know.
November 7th, 2005 at 2:19 pm#77
“we nailed Kerry on his war crimes.”
That was the swiftboat lie.
“the left has injected hate in this debate and the right is fighting back. You hatred for Bush started this. BUSH DID NOT LIE. Get over it.”
You started it and WE are finishing it.
“Clinton was not an effective leader. He NEVER had the challenges that Bush had.”
Bush created his false challenges.
November 7th, 2005 at 2:19 pmDelusional. Don’t listen to the voices in your head Ned. Don’t go Berkowitz on us now.
November 7th, 2005 at 2:20 pmNed, calling me an idiot in #60 after all the times I’ve helped you clarify your statements here. How ungrateful and totally disrespectful of you. You are kind of a fiesty little gal, huh?
Correct me if I wrong, but did you know that most of those “swiftboat” assholes who were part of the smear campaign never set foot on a swiftboat? Many never served in the Navy, and still others never served at all except with their mouths and money. Guess how many of them actually served with and personally knew Kerry in Vietnam?
But never mind that, honey. All this fighting turns me on—-like mighty aphrodite does me. (How about talking dirty to me now?.
November 7th, 2005 at 2:20 pmNED,
And that’s why we call you delusional.
#1 priority of Clinton – global terrorism.
#1 issue facing clinton when he became president, a HORRIFIC recession left by BushI
He faced impeachment, yeah, that was a minor challenge huh?
He faced a daily probe into his financial and personal dealings.
He faced an invasion of Kosovo (A COUNTRY WITH SUPERIOR MILITARY FORCES COMPARED TO IRAQ) and he defeated them
Not only were Clinton’s challenges equal or greater to the ones that Bush faced, but because he actually managed them, they didn’t degrade into the hellhole that everything republicans touch gets spat into.
Republicans are inept managers, and inept leaders. They take a simple issue and turn it into a catastrophy!
November 7th, 2005 at 2:21 pmOn point: it’s not about Clinton, its about Chimpy
November 7th, 2005 at 2:21 pmSpudge – Kerry “Zippo” lighter burned a village with women and children in it. He admitted it. He also slandered the troops in 1971 congressional testimony. You didn’t think we were going to let that one slide by did you?
November 7th, 2005 at 2:22 pmNED,
People go to jail for ‘war crimes’. If Kerry had committed them, he’d be in jail since the republicans are IN CHARGE of the Justice Department. Not only is your statement delusional and crackpot, it’s traiterous and bad for troop moral to treat a war hero with such disrespect. You’re a dishonorable and unamerican fool!
November 7th, 2005 at 2:22 pmNED IS A TRAITOR!
November 7th, 2005 at 2:23 pmNED,
I already correct that LYING FOOLISH CLAIM OF YOURS.
Never happen, and Kerry never claimed that he did any such thing.
NED YOU ARE A LIAR AND A FOOL!
November 7th, 2005 at 2:23 pm#78 – kindness -
I agree, the trolls have a pretty good track record of derailing the subject of the post, thus preventing the effective exchange of ideas on that subject. I’m guilty of falling into the trap as well.
November 7th, 2005 at 2:24 pm#84 were you in Nam, Ned, or are you just living vicariously through your Xbox?
November 7th, 2005 at 2:25 pmNED,
Why did Rumsfeld sell all of those WMDs to Saddam in the first place?
Why don’t you hold republicans responsible for arming a madman with WMDs?
November 7th, 2005 at 2:25 pmNED spends the entire day in her room playing with her ‘x-box’ I bet. It explains why she’s so poorly socialized to the real world. She certainly seems immune to reality.
November 7th, 2005 at 2:26 pmBUSH LIED
BUSH WAGED AN ILLEGAL WAR
FITZIE IS GONNA FIND THE LIES AND THE REPUBLICANS ARE GONNA LOSE THE NEXT ELECTION!
GO DEMOCRATS!
November 7th, 2005 at 2:27 pmNed here is a good topic for you in support of the Clinton ostryich imitation arena.
November 7th, 2005 at 2:28 pmIf my memory serves me right before the election a ex military officer came out and basically said that the Russian special forces were believed to be just leaving Iraq right before the first invasion in March 03. his security clearance was immediately pulled and other than that it went away. How about doing some research on that for us, try Bill Gertz over at the wash.times. I’m sure there might have some wink wink nod nod going with the Clinton administration, ya never know.Thanks
#78, sorry Kindness, sometimes it is just too easy. I mostly talk to trolls because you need to understand their delusions when you meet them in the real world. Ned is a parody of a troll though, so maybe we should leave him to drool and gibber in peace.
November 7th, 2005 at 2:28 pmNED if we ain’t going to talk about Bush and Clinton’s approaches to the Iraqi War, then go ahead and continue to change the subject here. But please, don’t call me an idiot as it hurts my feelings.
Correct me if I’m wrong, does that mean you ain’t going to talk dirty to me? How about a beer down at the bar? Maybe we can smooth over our differences and feel each other out (so to speak, heh, heh).
By the way, what’s your favorite color? Blue, I bet. I like brown, myself. Like a cow-pie color of brown.
November 7th, 2005 at 2:31 pmTerry,
Have you noticed that the real action from trolls is always on Iraq and other ‘pentagon related’ matters. Clearly this is part of the effort of the republican/military propaganda machine to disrupt anything that undermines their illegal actions. It leaked a year or so ago about how the pentagon had created a department of ‘misinformation’ for news and internet access. Most likely they either supply amateur retards LIKE NED with this, or maybe the pentagon guys are simply as inept at the rest of the administration and their work just looks amateurish…
November 7th, 2005 at 2:31 pmI admire your patience, guys – I can’t even read NED’s comments anymore (or IRI, BRS or MA for that matter).
November 7th, 2005 at 2:32 pmI read half of the first sentence and then go down to the name of the poster and when it says NED (& Co.) I just skip the whole comment……
It was funny and entertaining at the beginning, then I began to seriously wonder and shake my head but by now their comments make my blood-pressure go through the roof!
No matter how many times you debunk their comments with facts and links, they come back with the same stupid talking points (I know, I know, that’s all they have: talking points) but at times it makes me want to just scream at my monitor *g*
“What Bush Said: “Iraq has trained al Qaeda members in bomb-making and poisons and deadly gases.—
You know the funniest part of this? It was Cheney and Rumsfeld who taught AlQueda bomb making and other Terrorist skills so they would attack Russia.
Not only are the republicans responsible for the creation of AlQueda, they’re responsible for the very skills training they push onto Iraq.
The republicans are a threat to national security!
November 7th, 2005 at 2:33 pm#84
“Kerry “Zippo†lighter burned a village with women and children in it. He admitted it. He also slandered the troops in 1971 congressional testimony.”
Proof? Links? Something to back your position. If Kerry admitted to something like that, it would be on record.
Sh!t Congressional Testimony has to be on record.
Let’s see something.
Better yet, change the subject, since these are lies.
November 7th, 2005 at 2:36 pmSpudge,
The congressional testimony is on record, NED is lying.
Kerry was asked to testify both about what he personally saw, and what others had told him (basically hearsay). Kerry recanted the statements of other soldiers, but he was VERY CLEAR that he had not personally witnessed any of these activities. The tinfoil hat republican whackos can’t tell the difference between witness testimony to hearsay and first hand accounting. Republicans are consistently just foolish childlike retards, nothing more.
We do however know that they did occur, and Mai Lai in particular was a massacre of a whole village that none other than Colin Powell helped coverup as a JAG officer.
November 7th, 2005 at 2:44 pmSpudge,
The testimony is here:
http://www.thinkingpeace.com/pages/arts2/arts227.html
November 7th, 2005 at 2:45 pmI’m sorry, I have way to much time on my hands today. Here is a quote from Kristol today and the more I read it the more I just have to shake my head. ” If voters hear, a damaging accusation that remains largely unrebutted, they will have a tendency to assume it’s true.’ hmmm I hope you all have time to read Mr. Kristol and Mr. Hayes.
November 7th, 2005 at 2:48 pmNot only did the republicans falsify documents, they used testimony they KNEW to be false. This is a clear subversion of the role of Congress in going to war, and as a result BUSH COMMITTED TREASON WORTHY OF IMPEACHMENT.
For the NYT
A top member of Al Qaeda in American custody was identified as a likely fabricator months before the Bush administration began to use his statements as the foundation for its claims that Iraq trained Al Qaeda members to use biological and chemical weapons, according to newly declassified portions of a Defense Intelligence Agency document.
November 7th, 2005 at 2:48 pmThe document, an intelligence report from February 2002, said it was probable that the prisoner, Ibn al-Shaykh al-Libi, “was intentionally misleading the debriefers” in making claims about Iraqi support for Al Qaeda’s work with illicit weapons.
Clinton was not an effective leader. He NEVER had the challenges that Bush had.
Comment by The Northeast Dilemma — November 7, 2005 @ 2:17 pm
What would that be? Literacy?
Oh, and you’re still a Chickenhawk who wants other folks to do the fighting & dying for you.
November 7th, 2005 at 2:49 pmFlyMan
Those tactics were taught to Kristol and the other NeoFascist/NeoCon freaks by their tutor LeoStrauss. An authentic nazi who was the father of their movement. This was something that the Nazis learned well, and the republicans have adopted as standard operating procedures. Republicans lie as effortless as most people breathe.
November 7th, 2005 at 2:50 pm#100 and 101
I still want NeD to show me this “information” on Kerry. You notice how he disappears when it starts getting tough?
I’ll bet her mom found her at the PC and told her the short yellow bus was there to get her.
November 7th, 2005 at 2:52 pmSpudge Boy,
If you will recall – at last year’s democratic convention, Kerry wanted to make sure that all of America knew that he was in Vietnam. In fact, he made it the focal point for the entire week, which just shows how weak of a candidate he really was. Only because he tried to capitalize on his supposed heroics, did the swift vets feel the need to really tell the truth. Here is but one link that will shed more light on the issue.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=39826
November 7th, 2005 at 3:05 pmRyan, that’s why that is such a curious statement from Kristol, he uses as cheerleading point for the lack of cajones on the Bush team to respond to it’s critics. The way you took it, I assume by your response,makes it seem like a strategy, sounds eerily like the way Am talk radio works. Faiz, Judd and co. MORE MEAT FOR US PLEASE. Thanks
November 7th, 2005 at 3:07 pmBelieve it or not, the Downing Street Memo made news yesterday (well, sort of). Yesterday morning on Late Edition (CNN), Wolf B. interviewed the British Defense Sec. John Reid and asked him about manipulation of intelligence. Reid of course said that it didn’t happen, going on to say that there had been no debate regarding the burden of proof regarding Saddam having the intention and capacity to develop WMDs. Wolf then threw up excerpts of the DSM, including the part about intelligence being fixed around policy. Again Sec. Reid denied it and brushed off the DSM as one of a thousand papers flying around that represented one person’s view about one particular issue.
What pissed me off is that Wolf allowed Sec. Ried to debunk CNN. If CNN doesn’t feel that the DSM is airtight evidence, then they have no business putting it up on the screen. It’s as if Wolf did this on purpose to appease the Right, and once again try and put to rest any questions about the DSM. It’s my understanding that the DSM is actually minutes from a meeting, and not some “memo.” Wolf never challenged Reid on this. Sheesh.
November 7th, 2005 at 3:13 pm“Only because he tried to capitalize on his supposed heroics, did the swift vets feel the need to really tell the truth.”RandyTheRadicalTerrorist
The only thing ’supposed’ is that a republican ever tells the truth. The smear campaign of the radical lying traitors of the reichwing fascist republican party were completely discredited. Only those who are partisan to the point of delusion believe any of these completely discredited smears. But then Randy has shown he has no brain cells to deal with reality, it would explain why prefered to vote for a draft dodger instead of a war hero. Republicans always prefer lies and delusion to reality, as it fits their traiterous and treasonous tendencies.
November 7th, 2005 at 3:29 pmRyan,
Where is your proof that he was a “hero”. He admitted to Meet the Press in ‘71 about the war crimes he committed. How does that make him a hero. Maybe only in the minds of the left.
November 7th, 2005 at 3:30 pmAnd for those that don’t know, the worldnet daily is just another national enquirer smear machine. They haven’t printed a fact on their page in a non-distorted way since they started.
Republicans are all professional liars, hate mongers and terrorists by nature, it’s why they’re drawn to supporting dictators and terrorist states like Saddam’s Iraq. Republicans recruited, funded and trained AlQueda. Republicans sold WMDs to Iraq to fight Iran. And before then, Republicans sold Plutonium reactors to Iran – the same ones they now claim Iran doesn’t need.
Republicans are the single largest threat to american security and democracy we have ever faced.
November 7th, 2005 at 3:31 pmRandy,
His war records show he was a Hero. Bush’s records show he was an AWOL traitor. And Randy, you’re printing discredited lies – you’re such a republican TRAITOR!
November 7th, 2005 at 3:32 pmRandy, the proof is in the medals. The military decided he was a hero when they awarded him. If you want to slander the military, go do it on redstate.org
November 7th, 2005 at 3:33 pmThe Clinton administration made the Iraq-Al Qaeda connection when al Shifa was tomahawked. Soro’s leftoid robots have selective memory. All of the statements and newspaper reports have conveniently been forgotten.
November 7th, 2005 at 3:35 pmThe old saying, “The harder I work, the luckier I get” rings true. Clinton was lucky. Bush is especially unlucky when he takes his month-long vacations.
November 7th, 2005 at 3:36 pmrefresh our memories, dvda. What were Clinton’s statements regarding the connection between al Qaeda and Iraq?
And when did Clinton call for a ground invasion and occupation? I seem to have forgotten that, also.
November 7th, 2005 at 3:38 pmTroll: I thought you supported the troops. What’s this talk about war crimes?
November 7th, 2005 at 3:40 pmAnd somebody here thought that che was a real lefty!
November 7th, 2005 at 3:40 pm#109
Could it be that the Downing Street memo is not as authentic as the left would like it to be? This story smells of the same stench as “Rathergate”. Give it up and please try a new agenda.
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/6/20/105038.shtml
November 7th, 2005 at 3:41 pmThe men who were with Kerry on the boat and served with him said he was a hero. That is good enough for me. None of the SwiftBoatLiars were under his command.
November 7th, 2005 at 3:41 pmThey simply hate him because he dared repeat stories of atrocities commited by a few of our servicemen.
These atrocities have been proven to be true.
so right wing fascist stfu
If the DSM were true, I find it hard to believe that the MSM would not be jumping all over this. That said, it must not be truthful since they seem to attack Bush at every chance.
November 7th, 2005 at 3:43 pmPlease post links or where to find any supporting documents if you can please. DVDA here’s what I found on al Shifa .cns.miis.edu/research/wmdme/biblio.htm
November 7th, 2005 at 3:45 pmsaves time for quick updates and agreements or rebutals. Thanks
the MSM is owned by the right wing. That is a fact.
November 7th, 2005 at 3:46 pmcountless items proving this have been documented.
So Randy – spew elsewhere. DSM was coroborated by several former Bush supporters such as Wilkerson, Clarke and the guy that Snow replaced whose name escapes me. All conservatives.
NewsMax is a biased and irresponsible propaganda site Randy. It isn’t news, it’s slander.
November 7th, 2005 at 3:46 pm#96 Ryan, I think the matter of deliberate disinformation was an early plan of defense/offense right after 9/11, around the time of the Patriot Act, but the plan was halted — or so we were told. I don’t believe they ever discontinued that plan – they are using it on us, a la “1984″, and NED has fallen for it.
November 7th, 2005 at 3:47 pmTrolls try to baffle with bull. Don’t they sound silly?
November 7th, 2005 at 3:49 pmSo NeD, #84 – If you believe Kerry did that, wouldn’t that make you favor him? I mean, you talk of torture being okay and we have killed MANY women and children in Iraq, wouldn’t that make you a fan? I thought you find it acceptable for some women and children to die for a greater “cause?” And I know you love a war. You can’t have it both ways.
November 7th, 2005 at 3:56 pm#99 and #100, When Kerry testified before Congress in 1971, he was indeed repeating what he had been told and his testimony clearly states that. Similar to how the comments of Dick Durbin were misconstrued when he repeated an FBI memo on the Senate floor and rhetorically said “one would think…..” and it was then reported all over the networks and print that he made the claims himself, so were the words of Kerry, who was repeating hearsay from others, being slung back at him as having been a perpetrator.
November 7th, 2005 at 3:59 pmThis is what Republicans do — they misconstrue, they leave out facts, they distort and then they repeat the false charges over and over again to the very willing media (who have degenerated to a mere stenography of he said/she said type of “reporting.”
yea, I’m now of the belief that they make the blog way less appealing. So in that sense, they may be doing the job they want to, makeing blogs less attractive by pushing down their #’s (except those who continually log back on to get in a jab & parry).
Do it the way DKos does, let them stay if they have anythign to say, if they are trolls (on either side) boot them.
November 7th, 2005 at 4:01 pm#102 Flyman, That is a tactic used by Goebbels, the Nazi propagandist under Adolph Hitler. The neocon-fascists have learned their lessons well.
November 7th, 2005 at 4:02 pmO-ethyl methylphosphonothioic acid = Iraq
November 7th, 2005 at 4:04 pmAl Shifa = financed by al Qaeda
Clinton connected the dots in 1998. Bombs away. People died, but many were saved. TP and the leftoid robots “don’t remember”.
Al Franken:
November 7th, 2005 at 4:08 pmThat wasn’t a lie. Clinton bombed a factory in Sudan. They had soil samples that had–that showed that this was a factory making a precursor to weapons of mass destruction. It was–al Qaeda was in the Sudan. This factory had been financed by al Qaeda. So you just got to get your facts straight. I mean this is–if you read ‘The Age of Sacred Terror’ by Daniel Benjamin and Steve Simon this is covered, chapter and verse.”
#109, WC, I agree. I saw that interview, and it was another occasion where I wanted to throw something at Wolfie. He brings up the controversial memo, then accepts the guy’s story with no further challenge. This is Blitzer’s way of interviewing for the Republicans: bring up the challenge (thereby feign unbias)then let the guy dismiss it or lie it away. On to the next question.
November 7th, 2005 at 4:13 pmBy the way in this case the “memo” is not just something dashed off on a post-it note. It is the official documentation of an official meeting – for the record.
Bill Clinton, addressing the nation after the Aug 20 1998 missile strike:
“There is no question in my mind that the Sudanese factory was producing chemicals that are used–and can be used–in VX gas…this was a plant that was producing chemical warfare-related weapons, and we have physical evidence of that.”
Thomas Pickering Aug 25, 1998
November 7th, 2005 at 4:17 pm“We see evidence that we think is quite clear on contacts between Sudan and Iraq. In fact, al Shifa officials, early in the company’s history, we believe were in touch with Iraqi individuals associated with Iraq’s VX program.”
DVDA,
Your ‘leaps’ of illogic don’t prove you point, but they do demonstrate your irrationality and complete lack of sanity.
November 7th, 2005 at 4:19 pmA top member of Al Qaeda in American custody was identified as a likely fabricator months before the Bush administration began to use his statements as the foundation for its claims that Iraq trained Al Qaeda members to use biological and chemical weapons, according to newly declassified portions of a Defense Intelligence Agency document.
The document, an intelligence report from February 2002, said it was probable that the prisoner, Ibn al-Shaykh al-Libi, “was intentionally misleading the debriefers” in making claims about Iraqi support for Al Qaeda’s work with illicit weapons.
November 7th, 2005 at 4:20 pm#120
I want Tony Blair and George Bush themselves to tell us that the DSM and everything contained within it is false. So far I haven’t seen that. All I’ve seen is Blair, at a previous joint press conference with Pres. Bush, denying that facts had been fixed.
Since you’ve been kind enough to provide a link supporting your contention, I want to draw attention to this little tidbit from the very same “news” story:
While British officials hadn’t disputed the authenticity of the Downing Street Memo, a senior member of the Blair government who reviewed the memo in light of reporter Smith’s admission could say only that its contents “appeared authentic.”
As for “giving it up” and “trying a new agenda,” I don’t think so, bub. I do believe the agenda contained within the DSM, specifically that of questionable intelligence, is very much alive and well, witnessed by the continuing stream of information that continues to this day.
Just visit the link below. I do believe it has today’s date on it. I believe that would put it under the category of “current” agenda.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,174708,00.html
November 7th, 2005 at 4:20 pmRepublicans GAVE THE WMDs to Iraq, that Clinton had to SUCCESSFULLY destroy. Clinton did his job, but republicans continually fail to do theirs. The republican party is nothing but the crooked, the inept and the hateful.
[The] Iraqi bioweapons program that President Bush wants to eradicate got its start with help from Uncle Sam two decades ago, according to government records that are getting new scrutiny in light of the discussion of war against Iraq.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention sent samples directly to several Iraqi sites that U.N. weapons inspectors determined were part of Saddam Hussein’s biological weapons program, CDC and congressional records from the early 1990s show. Iraq had ordered the samples, saying it needed them for legitimate medical research.
The CDC and a biological-sample company, the American Type Culture Collection, sent strains of all the germs Iraq used to make weapons, including anthrax, the bacteria that make botulinum toxin, and the germs that cause gas gangrene, the records show. Iraq also got samples of other deadly pathogens, including West Nile virus.
The transfers came in the 1980s, when the United States backed Iraq in its war against Iran.
November 7th, 2005 at 4:22 pmBill Richardson
“Sudan’s support for terrorism, their connections with Iraq on VX . . . and Sudan’s leadership support for Osama bin Laden.”
Sandy Berger wrote in the Washington Times on Oct. 16, 1998, suggesting that al Shifa was a dual-use facility like those U.N. inspectors had found in Iraq. The Clinton administration had “information linking bin Laden to the Sudanese regime and to the al Shifa plant…We have information that Iraq has assisted chemical weapons activity in Sudan.”
November 7th, 2005 at 4:22 pmThe government’s most definitive account of Iraq’s arms programs, to be released today, will show that Saddam Hussein posed a diminishing threat at the time the United States invaded and did not possess, or have concrete plans to develop, nuclear, chemical or biological weapons, U.S. officials said yesterday.
The officials said that the 1,000-page report by Charles A. Duelfer, the chief U.S. weapons inspector in Iraq, concluded that Hussein had the desire but not the means to produce unconventional weapons that could threaten his neighbors or the West. President Bush has continued to assert in his campaign stump speech that Iraq had posed “a gathering threat.”
The officials said Duelfer, an experienced former United Nations weapons inspector, found that the state of Hussein’s weapons-development programs and knowledge base was less advanced in 2003, when the war began, than it was in 1998, when international inspectors left Iraq.
November 7th, 2005 at 4:23 pmDVDA,
All you showed was that Clinton neutralized a Sudanese connected issue. If you are going to say because the sudanese worked with AlQueda, then the US worked with AlQueda, then by proxy because the US is involved with the Pakistanis, then the US is involved with North Korea. Not only is your argument silly, and irresponsible, it’s downright foolish.
November 7th, 2005 at 4:24 pmClarke did provide new information in defense of Clinton’s decision to fire Tomahawk cruise missiles at the El Shifa pharmaceutical plant in Khartoum, Sudan, in retaliation for bin Laden’s role in the Aug. 7 embassy bombings. While U.S. intelligence officials disclosed shortly after the missile attack that they had obtained a soil sample from the El Shifa site that contained a precursor of VX nerve gas, Clarke said that the U.S. government is “sure” that Iraqi nerve gas experts actually produced a powdered VX-like substance at the plant that, when mixed with bleach and water, would have become fully active VX nerve gas.
Clarke said U.S. intelligence does not know how much of the substance was produced at El Shifa or what happened to it. But he said that intelligence exists linking bin Laden to El Shifa’s current and past operators, the Iraqi nerve gas experts and the National Islamic Front in Sudan.
Given the evidence presented to the White House before the airstrike, Clarke said, the president “would have been derelict in his duties if he didn’t blow up the facility.”
Excerpted from “Embassy Attacks Thwarted, U.S. Says; Official Cites Gains Against Bin Laden; Clinton Seeks $10 Billion to Fight Terrorism,” Vernon Loeb, Washington Post, A02, January 23, 1999
November 7th, 2005 at 4:26 pmMaria & Sylvia, you’re right (#97) It’s no use responding to the trolls. I mean, this is a guy who thinks the Swift Boat “veterans” were telling the truth. Their own book contradicted some of their claims.
So this is my last time responding to a troll. I just couldn’t pass this one up:
#68 “I am the one with problems when you folks have to resort to name calling????” -NED
Here is a brief list of epithets NED has used in this thread alone: “lying left”, “you idiots”, “you’re [sic] dipshit”, “terrorist sympathizing lot”, “traitors”, “you’re an idiot”, “you people are the liars”
Here’s more proof that he’s certifiable: “BUSH DID NOT LIE”
November 7th, 2005 at 4:27 pmWorking ties between Iraq and AlQueda? Never Existed.
Working ties between the US and AlQueda. REAL.
The US trained, funded and helped recruit and even equpi the men who became AlQueda. They were our ‘freedom fighters’ to fight the Russians. So there’s more evidence of REPUBLICAN ties to AlQueda, than there is between AlQueda and Iraq. So by DVDA’s rationality, the US should bomb republicans.
November 7th, 2005 at 4:27 pmAmbassador Bill Richardson on Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer August 30, 1998. He called the targeting “one of the finest hours of our intelligence people.”
“We know for a fact, physical evidence, soil samples of VX precursor–chemical precursor at the site,” said Richardson. “Secondly, Wolf, direct evidence of ties between Osama bin Laden and the Military Industrial Corporation–the al Shifa factory was part of that. This is an operation–a collection of buildings that does a lot of this dirty munitions stuff. And, thirdly, there is no evidence that this precursor has a commercial application. So, you combine that with Sudan support for terrorism, their connections with Iraq on VX, and you combine that, also, with the chemical precursor issue, and Sudan’s leadership support for Osama bin Laden, and you’ve got a pretty clear cut case.”
November 7th, 2005 at 4:31 pmA documentary to be aired on Tuesday by Italian state satellite TV channel RAI News 24 alleges that US troops used chemical weapons during their assault on the insurgent stronghold of Fallujah in November last year. The documentary – ‘Fallujah – the hidden massacre’ – uses witness accounts from former US soldiers, Fallujah residents, video footage and photographs, to support its claim that contrary to US State Department denials, white phosphorous was used indiscriminately on the city, causing terrible injuries to civilians, including women and children.
“I heard the order being issued to be careful because white phosphorous was being used on Fallujah. In military slang this is known as Willy Pete. Phosphorous burns bodies, melting the flesh right down to the bone,” says one former US solider, interviewed by the documentary’s director, Sigfrido Ranucci.
“I saw the burned bodies of women and children. The phosophorous explodes and forms a plume. Who ever is within a 150 metre radius has no hope,” the former soldier adds.
“A rain of fire came down on the city, and people targeted by the different coloured substances began to burn. We found people dead, with strange injuries, with their clothes intact,” a biologist from Fallujah, Mohamad Tareq al-Deraji tells Ranucci.
The evidence in ‘Fallujah – the hidden massacre’ claims to show the US forces did not use phosphorous in the legitimate way – to highlight enemy positions – but dropped the substance indiscriminately on the city, and on a massive scale. The documentary also shows the terrible damage wrought by the US bombardment of Fallujah, and the carnage to civilians, some of whom lay sleeping.
Equally disturbingly, a document in the report claims to prove that the U.S. forces have used the MK77 form of Napalm – the chemical used with devastating effect on civilians during the Vietnam war – on civilians in Iraq.
“I had gathered testimonials on the use of phosphorous and Napalm in Iraq from several refugees from Fallujah, and wanted to tell the world about it, but my kidnappers would not allow me to,” said Italian journalist Giuliana Sgrena, held hostage in Iraq earlier this year, during the documentary.
The use of white phosophorous and Napalm is prohibited by UN conventions. Moroever, the United States signed up to the Chemical Weapons Convention in 1997.
November 7th, 2005 at 4:32 pmBritain’s involvement in the Iraq war has “partly radicalized and fueled” the rise of home-grown terrorism, London’s former ambassador to Washington, Sir Christopher Meyer, says.
Prime Minister Tony Blair has repeatedly denied that the US and British invasion of Iraq in March 2003 has led to an increase in Islamic extremism and that it played a part in the July 7 attacks in London which left 56 dead.
But in an interview with the Guardian newspaper, Meyer said: “There is plenty of evidence around at the moment that home-grown terrorism was partly radicalized and fueled by what is going on in Iraq.”
“There is no way we can credibly get up and say it has nothing to do with it. Don’t tell me that being in Iraq has got nothing to do with it. Of course it does,” said the veteran diplomat, who was ambassador in Washington in the run-up to the war.
November 7th, 2005 at 4:34 pmUS sells WMDs to Iraq under REPUBLICAN PRESIDENCIES.
US and British companies are among several Western firms that sell Iraq materials that can be used to develop nuclear, chemical, biological, and conventional weapons. [Associated Press, 12/21/02; New York Times 12/21/02b; Washington Post,12/30/02; San Francisco Chronicle, 1/28/2003; Sunday Herald, 2/23/03]
November 7th, 2005 at 4:37 pmUnited States -
Biological: American Type Culture Collection, several biological precursor agents for diseases like anthrax, gangrene, and the West Nile virus; Alcolac International, Thiodiglycol, the mustard gas precursor; Al Haddad, 60 tons of a chemical that could be used to make sarin; Dow Chemical, $1.5 million of pesticides (see December 1988). [Washington Post,12/30/02; New York Times 12/21/02b; Die Tageszeitung 10/18/02]
Nuclear: TI Coating; UNISYS; Tektronix; Leybold Vacuum Systems; Finnigan-MAT-US; Hewlett Packard; Dupont; Consarc; Cerberus (LTD) ; Canberra Industries; Axel Electronics Inc. [Die Tageszeitung 10/18/02; Zmag 10/29/02; Memory Hole]
Rocket Program: Honeywell ;TI Coating; UNISYS; Honeywell; Semetex; Sperry Corp.; Tektronix; Hewlett Packard; Eastman Kodak; Electronic Associates; EZ Logic Data Systems, Inc. [Die Tageszeitung 10/18/02; Zmag 10/29/02; Memory Hole]
Conventional weapons: Honeywell; Spektra Physics; TI Coating; UNISYS; Sperry Corp.; Rockwell; Hewlett Packard; Carl Zeis -U.S; Union Carbide. [Die Tageszeitung 10/18/02; Zmag 10/29/02; Memory Hole; San Francisco Chronicle, 1/28/2003; Washington Post,12/30/02]
United Kingdom -
: Nuclear weapons: Euromac Ltd-UK.; C Plath-Nuclear; Endshire Export Marketing; International Computer Systems; MEED International; International Computer Limited; Matrix Churchill Corp.; Ali Ashour Daghir.; Inwako; XYY Options, Inc. [Sunday Herald, 2/23/03]
Chemical weapons: MEED International; International Computer Systems; International Military Services; Sheffield Forgemasters; Technology Development Group; International Signal and Control; Terex Corporation; Walter Somers Ltd. [Sunday Herald, 2/23/03]
Conventional: International Computer Systems; International Computer Limited; TMG Engineering. [Sunday Herald, 2/23/03]
People and organizations involved: Honeywell, Consarc, Semetex, Hewlett Packard, Dupont, Canberra Industries, Dow Chemical, Axel Electronics Inc., Alcolac International, Al Haddad, Cerberus (LTD), Leybold Vacuum Systems, Finnigan-MAT-US, UNISYS, TI Coating, Tektronix, Sperry Corp., American Type Culture Collection, Rockwell, Carl Zeis -U.S, Union Carbide, Euromac Ltd-UK, Spektra Physics, Eastman Kodak, Electronic Associates, EZ Logic Data Systems, Inc., C Plath-Nuclear, Endshire Export Marketing, Terex Corporation, International Signal and Control, Walter Somers Ltd., TMG Engineering, Technology Development Group, Sheffield Forgemasters, International Computer Limited, Matrix Churchill Corp., International Computer Systems, MEED International, Ali Ashour Daghir, Inwako, XYY Options, Inc., International Military Services
OK, D.V.D.A. Take this:
The occasion was a press conference on 24 February 2001 during Powell’s visit to Cairo, Egypt. Answering a question about the US-led sanctions against Iraq, the Secretary of State said:
We had a good discussion, the Foreign Minister and I and the President and I, had a good discussion about the nature of the sanctions — the fact that the sanctions exist — not for the purpose of hurting the Iraqi people, but for the purpose of keeping in check Saddam Hussein’s ambitions toward developing weapons of mass destruction. We should constantly be reviewing our policies, constantly be looking at those sanctions to make sure that they are directed toward that purpose. That purpose is every bit as important now as it was ten years ago when we began it. And frankly they have worked. He has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbors. So in effect, our policies have strengthened the security of the neighbors of Iraq…
What happened???
November 7th, 2005 at 4:42 pmThe Clinton administration made the Iraq-Al Qaeda connection when al Shifa was tomahawked. All of the statements and newspaper reports have conveniently been forgotten. Soro’s leftoid robots’s strategy? Frantically change the subject. TP is still left having to explain their inadequecy in researching their claim.
November 7th, 2005 at 4:44 pm“So there’s more evidence of REPUBLICAN ties to AlQueda, than there is between AlQueda and Iraq. So by DVDA’s rationality, the US should bomb republicans.”
LOL!!! Isn’t that the most amazing thing, that the Republicans had ties to Al Qaeda? It’s just the most amazing, blatant hypocrisy that comes out of these traitor republican liars when they suggest a conection between Iraq and Al Qaeda.
We should round up all these neo-cons for sedition and abetting the enemy. It’s not that their commiting these crimes on purpose, its just that they are too stupid and unfit for command.
Traitors.
November 7th, 2005 at 4:48 pm1) The REPUBLICAN-AlQueda connection is actually greater than the Iraq one.
2) Soros is a libertarian – not a lefty. Then again, you’re a nazi fascist, so to you everyone must be a ‘lefty’. Psychosis has that affect on terrorists, traitors and fools like you.
3) What claim? You’re writing about the ’sudan’, and the claims of an informant who was mad because he got caught stealing from Bin Laden.
DVDA, not only is your ‘claim’ irrelevant and irrational, but you’re a retarded childish fool.
November 7th, 2005 at 4:49 pmJeremy,
The republicans didn’t just have TIES to AlQueda, they are DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE FOR ITS CREATION! They were so desperate to fight the russians and give them ‘a vietnam’, that they trained an entire block of religious fanatics in being a terrorist! REPUBLICANS ARE TERRORISTS AND A THREAT TO WORLD SECURITY!
November 7th, 2005 at 4:50 pmDVDA = DOES VERY DASTARDY ACTS = REPUBLICAN TERRORIST
November 7th, 2005 at 4:51 pm#147 RN,
November 7th, 2005 at 4:51 pmOMG, This is in line with the report I read yesterday through a link on TP. It sickens me to think that this is being committed. I believe that what we are doing now in the city (name?) near the Syrian border is quite similar in tactics.
The world is going to hold us acountable for this.
Recall the release of Sgrena, and the “confusion” about who they were at the checkpoint, and how her account of how her bodyguard was killed vs. the checkpoint version. I think she suspects that she was the target for killing, made to look like it was an accidental misunderstanding.
Marie,
Remember how republicans claimed that Saddam was bad because he used unconventional weapons and tortured people? Yet another example of NAZI REPUBLICAN FASCISM at work. Republicanism = Hypocrisy = Criminality = Terrorism
November 7th, 2005 at 4:54 pm#154. Good point Ryan. So in within reason, its safe to say that the mess we have with Al Qaeda is what was left behind the cold war and republican experimental policies. I recall that the U.S betrayed Al Qaeda after the soviets were defeated in Afghanistan. The republicans need to clean up after their messes, because their actions are causing too many problems world wide.
November 7th, 2005 at 4:58 pmJeremy,
You’re exactly right. Virtually every problem we face in international policies now occurred because of Republican failures.
1) Iran – Eisenhower Helped Overthrow the democratic leadership in Iran, and replaced it with the Shah – a dictator.
2) AlQueda – Reagan & BushI Trained, Recruited, Equiped and funded by republicans to fight the Soviets.
3) Iraq – Reagan Equipped and support Saddam so he would fight Iran. Sold WMD technologies to Saddam because of Iran.
4) Iran – Ford Sold Plutonium reactor and technology to Shah despite warnings.
5) North Korea – Republican congress subverted negotiated energy deal with NK and triggered a re-arming.
6) Israel – Republican and conservative forces prevent the US from participating in a proper partitioning of the country according to the UN resolution which REQUIRES it.
November 7th, 2005 at 5:04 pmI avoid tweekers like the plague. Why? Because they are a huge waste of time and effort. Plus, I’ve had good friends go there, I know what a waste it is.
The trolls here are tweekers. same thing. When you interact with them you are putting the value of your life and the time you have at an exceptionally low bar. C’mon people, you can do better than that. Here we have thread with 159 posts so far. I don’t doubt that over half if not more are tweekers and responding to tweekers.
WTF! Get a clue folks. They don’t take reason. They lie and bitch just to get your dander up. & you let them. Now it’s you responders that’s pissing me off.
November 7th, 2005 at 5:13 pmThere is only one response to NED and his/her ilk –
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!! Hilarious!!!! You must be so clever to make this up!!!! I haven’t laughed so much in years!!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!
More please – lots more!!!!!!!!!!
November 7th, 2005 at 5:13 pmkindness,
Many of us actually post items relevant to the thread – your assessment is as much or more of a waste than the things you complain of – no offense. I imagine your heart is in the right place, but the fact is that it’s important to answer the challenges. Unanswered challenges are an admission of their truths. And since the republicans only lie, it takes a lot of time to debunk their recycled lies… Such is life!
November 7th, 2005 at 5:41 pm#122, Randy, your assertion that the DSM is a fake is a ridiculous statement. Tony Blair acknowledges the authenticity of the memo here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/4634901.stm
The Butler report extensively investigated the memo. What is interesting about the DSM is that:
November 7th, 2005 at 5:49 pm(1) In the UK it is accepted fact that the US ‘fixed the facts’ – that is not important to Tony Blair – his jeopardy stems from singing over his country’s foriegn policy to the Chimp
(2) In the US, the content of the DSM iswhat is relevant – namely that Chimpy et al made the intelligence fit the required outcome – namely invasion.
#122 additional comment – the media ignored the DSM the same way that they ignored any sense of objectivity in Ahmad Chalabi and Curveball’s intelligence, in any serious examination of Cheney, Rice, Chimpy and Rummy’s warmongering, in any serious study of their role in hyping the public to war. What you call the MSM is a fallacy. Fox News is the defacto propaganda wing of the Republican party, by their own admission, for heaven’s sake.
November 7th, 2005 at 5:56 pm#156 Marie, Al-Jazeera was talking about reports on napalm use in Fallajuah in November 2004. I’ve brought it up on this site several times since then. This surfaced in June 2005: http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/printer_061705E.shtml So they lied to their allies about using MK77.
I could not find the Al Jazeera original I read a year ago, but here’s Kos: http://theotherwashington.dailykos.com/story/2004/11/21/32937/834
Here’s Juan Cole: http://www.juancole.com/2005/06/6-us-servicemen-killed-at-ramadi-10.html
Using MK77 on built up areas and not on military targets may just be a war crime. Its barbaric in anyone’s book even if not. Oh and the one country in the world which refuses to sign on to a treaty banning napalm? The good ol’ US of A.
November 7th, 2005 at 6:10 pmRyan I’m not spinnin my wheels. So, go ahead & burn yourself out.
November 7th, 2005 at 6:15 pmRight on TP…keep the impeachable offenses coming!
None of this is going away and Bushie will not be around much longer.
The impeachment movement grows stronger and stronger every day.
Keep up the good work TP, let the criminals know that Real Americans are not going to take it anymore.
November 7th, 2005 at 6:36 pmkindness,
Suit yourself. You shouldn’t project your burn out on everyone else – that’s your issue, not theirs…
November 7th, 2005 at 6:59 pmYour Freedoms are Hardly worth defending,
besides, Chinas gonna win the Last war anyways.
Catholism Lied, They say God sat them Free. This is FAR,FAR,FAR, from the Real Truth.
November 7th, 2005 at 7:35 pmCatholism Crucified Jesus.
So, If catholism Lied, Who do you suppose told the truth?
Jesus”2 And certain of the Pharisees said unto them, Why do ye that which is not lawful to do on the sabbath days?
3 And Jesus answering them said, Have ye not read so much as this, what David did, when himself was an hungred, and they which were with him;
11 And they were filled with madness; and communed one with another what they might do to Jesus.
20 ¶ And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God.
21 Blessed are ye that hunger now: for ye shall be filled. Blessed are ye that weep now: for ye shall laugh.
22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man’s sake.
23 Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.
24 But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.
25 Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep.
26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.
27 ¶ But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also.
30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.
31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.
33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
34 And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.
35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.
37 ¶ Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.
39 And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?
40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.
41 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but perceivest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
42 Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother’s eye.
43 For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
44 For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.
45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.
46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:
48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.
49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.
Faiz,
Good post! Thanks. I’ve been beating this drum for a two weeks trying to get people to narrow their focus on the Administration’s distortion of intelligence for these two key areas — which were the pillars of the Administration’s case for a preemptive war — instead of on their use of intelligence re: WMDs generally. It is in these two areas where the Republican argument that “Clinton said the same thing” breaks down and where the Administration’s distortions are most apparent.
Re: Iraq ties to Al Qaeda, Republicans will counter with stories about an Al Qaeda informant, Jamal Ahmed Al Fadl, who testified in a 1998 trial. Don’t buy it. Do your research and you’ll see that this is a bunch of hoo-ha too.
“I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it’s hell.” — Harry S. Truman
November 7th, 2005 at 7:43 pm#165, ThT
November 7th, 2005 at 7:59 pmThanks for the links. I had read about the supposed use of DU in Iraq, and other terrible things — it may indeed have been on Al Jazeera, or maybe Seymour Hersh. There are so many crimes, so many lies, so much (heretofore) unbelievable reports that I can’t keep track of them all. If we had a MSM that was worth anything, they would do their job, but I will check out your links and print some so I can keep them for reference.
[...] Both Left Coaster and Think Progress point out that, by this time, President Bush absolutely knew that these claims were false, at least he knew that all of the evidence that they were based on was false. The crime was lying to Congress in order to act on 107-243 [which contained two contingencies: WMD’a and al Qaeda support]. We know that it was all trumped up in the first place, but it is indisputable that by March 2003, each piece of the story he told had already been disproven and reported to him. His claim that Intelligence was faulty was not valid by that day – the Intelligence was quite clear. [...]
November 7th, 2005 at 8:30 pmBlaming Clinton seems to be a very tired attempt at deflection. Clinton may have “thought” Saddam was dangerous, but he didn’t invade Iraq with inadequate numbers of troops, and beggar our country! He had the good sense to think through and figure out what was best for our country. The neocons had a plan to invade Iraq since 1995 and Bush was their puppet President allowing Cheney and his evil mignons to illegally invade Iraq! I get so mad when they bring up Clinton. How about the fact that Bush Sr. didn’t depose Saddam after the Gulf War because he knew that chaos would drive the country into the mess we’re in now! Let’s go all the way back and blame everyone, but not the little monkey man!
November 7th, 2005 at 8:32 pmIMPEACH THE TRAITOR!
November 7th, 2005 at 8:34 pmThe Niger uranium fraud. The al-Libi fabrications. White House pressure on the CIA.
“The Iraq Intel Stonewall Crumbles.”
November 7th, 2005 at 9:10 pmThanks AvengingAngel. The case you lay out about Pat Roberts inclines me to believe that he will be facing conspiracy indictments.
November 7th, 2005 at 9:20 pmYo… folks! Leave poor, sick NED alone. He/she or it – sick, just plain sick. Leave he/she or it to stew and sweat all alone – sort of like Chimperor Disgustus, alone, wondering in the halls of the WH talking to the pictures. Oh, wait, that was Nixon.
November 7th, 2005 at 10:37 pm#171 Marie, is DU the cause of Gulf War Syndrome too?
This is mild compared to some of the photos you can find. Caution on the relationship – it is not conclusive, but if it is…. http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/95178_du12.shtml
November 7th, 2005 at 10:49 pmI am an idiot!!!!!
I now hate bush, even though I sometimes have that dual personality syndrome that comes out for the idiot!
IMPEACH DUMYA NOW….
(I am into my 12 step program for idiot-dependence)
wish me luck!
November 7th, 2005 at 11:22 pmI am into that 12 step program for idiot-dependence too!
Torture Cheeney, dumbya and libby, and draw and quarter rove!!!!
I hate dumbya!!!!
November 7th, 2005 at 11:23 pmI have no church, so I preacheth way tooith fu****in much!
Forgive my relying on an outdated book of suggestions.
November 7th, 2005 at 11:25 pmWhen we’re impeched, well curl up into a little ball (fetal position) like that lying Jim Baker.
And cry like a little school girl, wanting mamma (the quaker oats man) to save us from the bullies…
November 7th, 2005 at 11:27 pmI am an idiot!1!
forgive me, I do NOT SUPPORT DUMBYA….
THE DOWNING STREET MEMOS AND THE AWOL MEMOS WERE FACT FILLED!
DUMBYA AND HIS CRONIES ARE WAR CRIMINALS.
November 7th, 2005 at 11:28 pmClinton also bombed halliburton in Houston on 12-24-89!
You people don’t think he was evil, he even bulldozed the senate bldg. in 2002.
I have the facts!!!
November 7th, 2005 at 11:33 pmHey, folks, see how easy it is to dis-arm trolls?
let’s all do it till they leave!
I can’t do it by myself!
November 7th, 2005 at 11:34 pmAll you do is make up dumb stuff that is like their dumb stuff, only MORE unbelievable and type it ….
Click..
Or denounce their NAZI leaders!!!!
You can even make them KKK members….
Be clever, it is fun. It shut them down last week.
November 7th, 2005 at 11:38 pmHey, great idea!!!!
I thought those bozos actually got brain transplants last week.
I never read their tripe, but they do change names to make it look as though there is more than one of them.
It is like turning a Rove dirty trick back on them!!!!
Like Rove hiring people to jam Dem phone lines during campaigns.
Just wish we could find ned’s address and do some overt de-programming.
November 7th, 2005 at 11:42 pmWhen can we start arresting and deporting conservatives? We don’t need them to defend Clinton. We can do that ourselves.
O-ethyl methylphosphonothioic acid = Iraq
Al Shifa = financed by al Qaeda
Clinton connected the dots in 1998. Bombs away. People died, but many were saved. TP and the leftoid robots “don’t rememberâ€.
Comment by D.V.D.A. — November 7, 2005 @ 4:04 pm
November 8th, 2005 at 2:27 amThe Bible Sez:
(Mat 5:29) And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
(Mat 5:30) And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
The “right†is an offense to God. Pluck it out! Cut it off! And cast it into Hell!
November 8th, 2005 at 5:17 amSo Marie, on the subject of MK77 – this appears in the London Independent today. Any bets that it does not make it to US news as a feature item?
November 8th, 2005 at 8:49 amThis time with link: http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article325560.ece
November 8th, 2005 at 8:49 am#191, TtT, Thanks,
November 8th, 2005 at 9:54 amI read this report early this morning. This makes several times in the last year that this has been reported in British and Italian media — you’re right, the U.S. MSM will not report it, although I think I will Email a few outlets and ask them why not.
[...] >> Why Bush’s Case On Iraq Was Different From Clinton’s [...]
November 16th, 2005 at 10:55 amIt’s wasn’t just the Clinton Administration that said there were WMD’s –
Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-NY): “In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al-Qaeda members … It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons.” (Sen. Hillary Clinton, Congressional Record, 10/10/02, p. S10288)
Sen. John Kerry (D-MA): “When I vote to give the president of the United States the authority to use force, if necessary, to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security….” (Sen. John Kerry, Congressional Record, 10/9/02, p. S10174)
Sen. John Kerry (D-MA): “[W]ithout question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime … He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation … And now he is miscalculating America’s response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction. So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real.” (Sen. John Kerry, Remarks At Georgetown University, Washington, DC, 1/23/03)
Sen. Ted Kennedy (D-MA): “We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction.” (Sen. Edward Kennedy, Remarks At The Johns Hopkins School Of Advanced International Studies, 9/27/02)
Sen. Robert Byrd (D-WV): “The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons…” (”Threats And Responses,” The New York Times, 10/4/02)
Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D-WV): “There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years … We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction.” (Sen. Jay Rockefeller, Congressional Record, 10/10/02, p. S10305)
Sen. Carl Levin (D-MI): “We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandated of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them.” (Sen. Carl Levin, Committee On Armed Services, U.S. Senate, Hearing, 9/19/02)
Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D-CA): “Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process. The responsibility of the United States in this conflict is to eliminate weapons of mass destruction, to minimize the danger to our troops and to diminish the suffering of the Iraqi people.” (Rep. Nancy Pelosi, “Statement On U.S. Led Military Strike Against Iraq,” Press Release, 12/16/98)
Former President Bill Clinton: “One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line.” (”US: Clinton Says Diplomatic Solution Preferable In Iraq,” AAP Newsfeed, 2/5/98)
Former Vice President Al Gore: “We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country.” (Former Vice President Al Gore, Remarks At The Commonwealth Club, San Francisco, CA, 9/23/02)
Former President Jimmy Carter: “We want Saddam Hussein to disarm but we want to achieve this through peaceful means. He obviously has the capability and desire to build prohibited weapons and probably has some hidden in his country.” (Mirror.co.uk, 2003)
DNC Chairman Howard Dean: Dean talks about the weapons of mass destruction. He says that the WMD’s claim was “not true.” Russert counters by telling Dean that he himself said there were WMD’s in Iraq. Dean immediately tries to spin it by saying, “I said I wasn’t sure” and then following it up with “I said I thought there probably were.” (Meet the Press, May 2005)
June 16th, 2006 at 5:09 pm