I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view

Thanks for the nice read, keep up the interesting posts..

If Al gave you his word on something, you could deposit it in the

I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view

I am really sorry if I disturbing you with this topic, I hope this topic above use to be a general discussion because it is an International case that must to be tackle by International point of views. If there is not attention from the international community West Papuan people more and more will destroy in its home land. And whole international community and United Nation human right affairs shall be live watcher and witness for that.

Any how, I hope this topic above will be a global discussion for you guys.
West Papua people and I will pray for you!

If Republicans and Conservatives are truly asking this question, then they are truly not the “good Christians” they claim to be,

I find it amazing that the Right has so easily co-opted an entire religion and made it the basis of their whole “moral” political platform, only to commit acts of greed and treachery at every turn.

it’s evil evil evil.

Thank you for your comments. I was aware of exactly what you menat. I think Ed is mistaken but brings a much better viewpoint than the usual trolls we see on here. He argues against the argument rather than just producing ad hominem attacks.

As for “mighty” aphrodite, I still have trouble believing that anyone could write that.

Still, I think my answers are correct. Although I suspect Aphrodite of more Pathos than Paphos.

Z.

I think you just found out what I was talking about in my earlier post.

You took a stand for what should be a moral cause –and you are being ridiculed.

For Mighty Aphrodite torture is just fine. After all, as she expressed in a feeble attempt at sarcasm, Muslims do not deserve anyone’s respect. She also thinks that the U.S. is simply responding –as if the U.S. were the victims and not the aggressors.

She is not alone in that belief. See Ed’s comment.

“No exceptional circumstances whatsoever, whether a state of war or a threat of war, internal political in stability or any other public emergency, may be invoked as a justification of torture”
– UN Convention against Torture

The U.S. are a signatory nation of the convention.

Torture is a war crime.

Thank you for not being a troll. Taking your comments backwards…

“If you disagree with me, you aren’t a traitor. You just disagree with me. That is why America is a great country.”

Agreed, and refreshing to hear it. Unfortunately I’ve also heard people say things like “you’re either with us or you’re with the terrorists”. This implies that there is no room for dissent.

“Mistaken identity? It’s the price you pay. We put innocent people in jail for life, or even worse to death, for crimes they didn’t commit. On the other hand, we let O.J. go free. Nobody likes it. It’s not a perfect system and never will be.”

I used to work in the Health Physics section of a Nuclear physics lab. In that field systems are designed to fail safe. You don’t want a safety door that sticks open, you want one that slams shut if not held open. I would rather that guilty people were not killed than that innocent people were. You can’t bring people back from the dead and saying “Whoops, My bad!” is no consolation to the dead person.

“Personally, I have no problem with torture. If it is the price we have to pay to prevent a dirty bomb from going off or another 9/11, then so be it. They already hate us. We are already infidels. War/torture/whatever doesn’t make them hate us any more. We’ve been The Great Satan since the Carter administration.”

But, torture someone enough and they will tell you what they think you want to hear. Whether it is true or not is beside the point. As a result it won’t prevent all dirty bombs, 9/11s, or whatever. Sure, some of them already hate us. Some of them already believe that we are infidels/beyond redemption/The Great Satan/Whatever. But some of them don’t… yet. If we torture we are showing them that we are as bad, or even worse than the people we are replacing. If you think that the war is not changing minds you’re not paying attention. The Israelis, amongst others, have already declared that the war in Iraq is gaining recruits for the other side. If one of our actions is actively encouraging people to fight against us then I think that we should look into it further and see whether it is justified. I can see no valid reason for torture, and many reasons against it.

““…from a functional standpoint, I think it may have put our own troops in danger.”
Oh cool. If we stop, maybe the next time they behead someone they’ll use a Geneva convention approved knife.”

I don’t think that the Geneva convention approves of beheading prisoners… No… It probably doesn’t. But we can’t control what others are doing. We can control what we are doing. If we torture people, andf that provides no tangible benefits, and it is helping the other side recruit more people, then why should we continue to do it. What advantage does it give us? None! It is a disadvantage. If arming our troops with baseball bats proved to be a disadvantage to them in combat with people armed with guns would you continue to do it? No, you would find something that worked. Perhaps if they had perfect body armour as well you wouldn’t give them guns, as the bats would be sufficient. But you wouldn’t just leave them with the bats.

Z.

Neither of your comments are cliches, but cliches become cliches precisely because they express an obvious statement well.

I wouldn’t include either of your comments for the following reasons…

“Because our favourite religious underDOGS are Muslims.”

Actually, you’re wrong. My favourite religious underdogs are the strange teapot worshipping cult from Malaysia. See the following article for more information…
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4692039.stm
You might want to notice that they are being condemned by Muslims… Other than them, the cult of the golden calf, and the Pastafarians have to be high on my list of favourite religions. My personal faith is nothing to do with any of these, I just get a kick out of them.

“Because we deserve to be attacked due to our foreign policy.”

Well, that depends what you mean. If you mean lying to start a war, invading another country, and then holding innocent people for years without trial (some people from Guantanamo have been released because the government realised that they were indeed innocent), I think that that does deserve some kind of response. Whether that response is physically attacking the invading forces, or verbally attacking the people behind these actions is a matter for people to decide for themselves. As a pacifist I would choose the latter. If you mean the original 9/11 attacks then that has nothing to do with torture. The torture has happened since then. Whether it is officially condoned or “just a few bad apples” remains to be seen. The fact that some forms of torture have occurred is fairly clear by now.

Now, please feel free to go back to Paphos and return from whence you came.

Z.

**** Zwack, let me add a couple of more timely cliches to your heartfelt list:
Because our favourite religious underDOGS are Muslims.
Because we deserve to be attacked due to our foriegn policy.
Peace. Love. Prius.

Personally, I have no problem with torture. If it is the price we have to pay to prevent a dirty bomb from going off or another 9/11, then so be it. They already hate us. We are already infidels. War/torture/whatever doesn’t make them hate us any more. We’ve been The Great Satan since the Carter administration.

Mistaken identity? It’s the price you pay. We put innocent people in jail for life, or even worse to death, for crimes they didn’t commit. On the other hand, we let O.J. go free. Nobody likes it. It’s not a perfect system and never will be.

If you disagree with me, you aren’t a traitor. You just disagree with me. That is why America is a great country.