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	<title>Comments on: Bush Said His Nominees Won&#8217;t Change Their Minds In 20 Years</title>
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		<title>By: mike</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2005/11/15/nominees-20-years/comment-page-4/#comment-370908</link>
		<dc:creator>mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jan 2006 22:49:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/?p=2553#comment-370908</guid>
		<description>Of course Alito will seek to limit and perhaps even overturn Roe as would every  intellectually honets person in America. I strongly support abortion on demand, at least for women at the age of consent who can pay for their own. (For those who cant, let all the feminists and those who see it as a civil right pay for it out of their pockets).  As a matter of Constitional law, however, the opinion in Roe is itself an &quot;abortion&quot;! It is simply indefensible as a legal precedent and is prime example of the trouble that results when the Supreme Court creates or invents new laws rather than interpreting the TEXT of the Constitution. The battle over abortion is a politcal one, not a Constitutional one. Harry Blackmun and Potter Stewart&#039;s guilt over potential back alley abortions are an insufficent basis for elevating a quintessential states rights issue to Constiutional dimensions.  Roe is a &quot;mistake&quot; and should be &quot;aborted&quot; because its a troublesome &quot;bastard&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course Alito will seek to limit and perhaps even overturn Roe as would every  intellectually honets person in America. I strongly support abortion on demand, at least for women at the age of consent who can pay for their own. (For those who cant, let all the feminists and those who see it as a civil right pay for it out of their pockets).  As a matter of Constitional law, however, the opinion in Roe is itself an &#8220;abortion&#8221;! It is simply indefensible as a legal precedent and is prime example of the trouble that results when the Supreme Court creates or invents new laws rather than interpreting the TEXT of the Constitution. The battle over abortion is a politcal one, not a Constitutional one. Harry Blackmun and Potter Stewart&#8217;s guilt over potential back alley abortions are an insufficent basis for elevating a quintessential states rights issue to Constiutional dimensions.  Roe is a &#8220;mistake&#8221; and should be &#8220;aborted&#8221; because its a troublesome &#8220;bastard&#8221;.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=370908', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: mike</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2005/11/15/nominees-20-years/comment-page-4/#comment-370897</link>
		<dc:creator>mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jan 2006 22:45:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/?p=2553#comment-370897</guid>
		<description>Of course Alito will seek to limit and perhaps  in America. I strongly support abortion on demand, at least for women at the age of consent who can pay for their own. (For those who cant, let all the feminists and those who see it as a civil right pay for it out of their pockets).  As a matter of Constitional law however, the opinion in Roe is itself an &quot;abortion&quot;! It is simply indefensible as a legal precedent and is prime exmaple for the trouble that results when the Supreme Court creates or invents new laws rather than interpreting the TEXT of the Constitution. The battle over abortion is a politcal one, not a Constitutional one. Harry Blackmun and Potter Stewart&#039;s guilt over potential back alley abortions are an insufficent basis for elevating a quintessential states rights issue to Constiutional dimensions.  Roe is a &quot;mistake&quot; and should be &quot;aborted&quot; because its a troublesome &quot;bastard&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course Alito will seek to limit and perhaps  in America. I strongly support abortion on demand, at least for women at the age of consent who can pay for their own. (For those who cant, let all the feminists and those who see it as a civil right pay for it out of their pockets).  As a matter of Constitional law however, the opinion in Roe is itself an &#8220;abortion&#8221;! It is simply indefensible as a legal precedent and is prime exmaple for the trouble that results when the Supreme Court creates or invents new laws rather than interpreting the TEXT of the Constitution. The battle over abortion is a politcal one, not a Constitutional one. Harry Blackmun and Potter Stewart&#8217;s guilt over potential back alley abortions are an insufficent basis for elevating a quintessential states rights issue to Constiutional dimensions.  Roe is a &#8220;mistake&#8221; and should be &#8220;aborted&#8221; because its a troublesome &#8220;bastard&#8221;.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=370897', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: Mark Marco</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2005/11/15/nominees-20-years/comment-page-4/#comment-238178</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Marco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Nov 2005 05:46:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/?p=2553#comment-238178</guid>
		<description>vicious- Finally! Someone who wants to trust legislating to legislators....it&#039;s weird....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>vicious- Finally! Someone who wants to trust legislating to legislators&#8230;.it&#8217;s weird&#8230;.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=238178', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: vicious</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2005/11/15/nominees-20-years/comment-page-4/#comment-234948</link>
		<dc:creator>vicious</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Nov 2005 22:29:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/?p=2553#comment-234948</guid>
		<description>The printed excerpt only says that Alito is proud of his contributions in those cases where the government has argued agaist racial quotas and a constitutional right to abortion. He does not say that he specifically argued those points or agrees with them. Furthermore, one can be proud of a particularly elegantly constructed argument without wholly supporting its conclusion. Alito is a judge and will take Supreme Court precedent seriously. That means taking Roe v. Wade seriously. 

Personally, I believe that as a policy decision it would be good to allow restricted, but legalized abortion. I also know that the Constitution does not protect a right to choose (have any of you read the Roe v. Wade decision? It is full of faulty arguments, invented rights, and unjustified interpretations of the Constitution). So it is possible to be sympathetic to the plight of women without pretending that the Constitution says something that it doesn&#039;t. 

Finally, I would like to point out that judges decide cases with specific fact patterns. Their holdings are only to be taken in context of the case presented and can only be applied to similar cases. A Supreme Court ruling can never have the same scope or power as a legislative act because it is necessarily limited to the circumstances that govern it. Much has been said about Alito&#039;s judicial history without taking into account the specific context of his previous holdings. This is error, the fact is we do not know how Alito will rule on a potential case in the future. All we know is that he is a brilliant and distinguished scholar whose interpretation of the Constitution should be accorded some level of respect given his demonstrated command of the legal issues. That is good enough for me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The printed excerpt only says that Alito is proud of his contributions in those cases where the government has argued agaist racial quotas and a constitutional right to abortion. He does not say that he specifically argued those points or agrees with them. Furthermore, one can be proud of a particularly elegantly constructed argument without wholly supporting its conclusion. Alito is a judge and will take Supreme Court precedent seriously. That means taking Roe v. Wade seriously. </p>
<p>Personally, I believe that as a policy decision it would be good to allow restricted, but legalized abortion. I also know that the Constitution does not protect a right to choose (have any of you read the Roe v. Wade decision? It is full of faulty arguments, invented rights, and unjustified interpretations of the Constitution). So it is possible to be sympathetic to the plight of women without pretending that the Constitution says something that it doesn&#8217;t. </p>
<p>Finally, I would like to point out that judges decide cases with specific fact patterns. Their holdings are only to be taken in context of the case presented and can only be applied to similar cases. A Supreme Court ruling can never have the same scope or power as a legislative act because it is necessarily limited to the circumstances that govern it. Much has been said about Alito&#8217;s judicial history without taking into account the specific context of his previous holdings. This is error, the fact is we do not know how Alito will rule on a potential case in the future. All we know is that he is a brilliant and distinguished scholar whose interpretation of the Constitution should be accorded some level of respect given his demonstrated command of the legal issues. That is good enough for me.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=234948', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: Mark Marco</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2005/11/15/nominees-20-years/comment-page-4/#comment-232293</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Marco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Nov 2005 20:29:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/?p=2553#comment-232293</guid>
		<description>mystic- Sometimes less is more......especially when writing.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>mystic- Sometimes less is more&#8230;&#8230;especially when writing&#8230;..<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=232293', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: mysticagent</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2005/11/15/nominees-20-years/comment-page-4/#comment-231285</link>
		<dc:creator>mysticagent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Nov 2005 14:18:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/?p=2553#comment-231285</guid>
		<description>This whole &quot;don&#039;t legislate&quot; business is tired. What exactly do you mean, in a practical pragmatic sense? A judge makes a decision in a case brought before him.  That decision is put down in the books.  That decision becomes precedent for future decisions by future judges. When a judge makes a decision in a case he sets a legal precedent that will be used by any lawyer to come who may be able to attach his case to the past ruling.  Thus, the rulings become a part of our law.  That is one way that the court tries to maintain consistency (which is necessary for &#039;justice&#039;). Thus, all judges legislate by making ANY decision, by making ANY interpretation. 
    The court is not over politicised any more than the entire nation (in other words, yeah, it has gotten too partisan).  Bush &quot;the Uniter&quot; and his cadre have brought America to a state of partisanship that has never been seen before in America. People are at each others throats over political ideology that, most often, is not really understood by the people. 
    The detractors of Alito point to his rulings and his dissents, using them to outline the reasons that he MIGHT not be a good Supreme Court judge.  His defenders respond, not by showing how he has been a good judge, but by claiming that his opposers are &quot;flag burners who want the pledge of allegiance out of the schools.&quot;  That is a non-argument. The main concern is that he will be influenced by his religion more than common sense:  that he will rule and interpret NOT from  the intent and meaniong of the constitution, but to re-write the constitution in the image of his religious belief.  Those who support such an action (and there are some) are those who want THEIR religion to be the law of the land, and everyone else must just live with it.  THAT is the pinnacle of being &quot;UNAMERICAN&quot;.
    And is it not the claim of the administration, the GOP, and all the rightwing supporters that they want to &quot;take over the court&quot;?  That they want one view (not a variety) to rule - their view.  They want a totalitarian religious state. Just the thing that the framers of the constitution feared and loathed, right next to big corporations ruling the country.  The corporations have sunk their claws into our politics and our country very deeply, and now the final indignation and insult to our forefathers, they are trying to bring in a single religious viewpoint as the last control of the people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This whole &#8220;don&#8217;t legislate&#8221; business is tired. What exactly do you mean, in a practical pragmatic sense? A judge makes a decision in a case brought before him.  That decision is put down in the books.  That decision becomes precedent for future decisions by future judges. When a judge makes a decision in a case he sets a legal precedent that will be used by any lawyer to come who may be able to attach his case to the past ruling.  Thus, the rulings become a part of our law.  That is one way that the court tries to maintain consistency (which is necessary for &#8216;justice&#8217;). Thus, all judges legislate by making ANY decision, by making ANY interpretation.<br />
    The court is not over politicised any more than the entire nation (in other words, yeah, it has gotten too partisan).  Bush &#8220;the Uniter&#8221; and his cadre have brought America to a state of partisanship that has never been seen before in America. People are at each others throats over political ideology that, most often, is not really understood by the people.<br />
    The detractors of Alito point to his rulings and his dissents, using them to outline the reasons that he MIGHT not be a good Supreme Court judge.  His defenders respond, not by showing how he has been a good judge, but by claiming that his opposers are &#8220;flag burners who want the pledge of allegiance out of the schools.&#8221;  That is a non-argument. The main concern is that he will be influenced by his religion more than common sense:  that he will rule and interpret NOT from  the intent and meaniong of the constitution, but to re-write the constitution in the image of his religious belief.  Those who support such an action (and there are some) are those who want THEIR religion to be the law of the land, and everyone else must just live with it.  THAT is the pinnacle of being &#8220;UNAMERICAN&#8221;.<br />
    And is it not the claim of the administration, the GOP, and all the rightwing supporters that they want to &#8220;take over the court&#8221;?  That they want one view (not a variety) to rule &#8211; their view.  They want a totalitarian religious state. Just the thing that the framers of the constitution feared and loathed, right next to big corporations ruling the country.  The corporations have sunk their claws into our politics and our country very deeply, and now the final indignation and insult to our forefathers, they are trying to bring in a single religious viewpoint as the last control of the people.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=231285', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: Mark Marco</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2005/11/15/nominees-20-years/comment-page-4/#comment-231203</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Marco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Nov 2005 12:54:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/?p=2553#comment-231203</guid>
		<description>mysticagent- the fact that Alito&#039;s views are so important means we have over politicized the court. They don&#039;t legislate.....(well, weren&#039;t supposed to)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>mysticagent- the fact that Alito&#8217;s views are so important means we have over politicized the court. They don&#8217;t legislate&#8230;..(well, weren&#8217;t supposed to)<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=231203', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: mysticagent</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2005/11/15/nominees-20-years/comment-page-4/#comment-229852</link>
		<dc:creator>mysticagent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Nov 2005 20:51:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/?p=2553#comment-229852</guid>
		<description>#151
    Awwww... you misspelled &quot;death&quot;. I seem to recall you making an issue of a typo from me not long ago (happens... I&#039;m not a trained typist).  So, are you an idiot now because you can&#039;t spell?
    Your question is odd.  I don&#039;t think that most people, upon imminent death, would worry about a philisophical position.  They might alter a religious view (usually to the one they were raised as - that is a comfort zone for most people), but not likely they would be caring about abortion issues (unless it is a woman who had one, or wished she had one).
    But you are NOT on-topic. Who cares? 
    Alto, on the other hand, has been nominated and is trying to obtain a seat.  His position is important. How he will decide is important. He is not a hypothetical. What do you think his views are?  Are they different from his own writing (as he claimes)? Did Bush alter his qualifications?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#151<br />
    Awwww&#8230; you misspelled &#8220;death&#8221;. I seem to recall you making an issue of a typo from me not long ago (happens&#8230; I&#8217;m not a trained typist).  So, are you an idiot now because you can&#8217;t spell?<br />
    Your question is odd.  I don&#8217;t think that most people, upon imminent death, would worry about a philisophical position.  They might alter a religious view (usually to the one they were raised as &#8211; that is a comfort zone for most people), but not likely they would be caring about abortion issues (unless it is a woman who had one, or wished she had one).<br />
    But you are NOT on-topic. Who cares?<br />
    Alto, on the other hand, has been nominated and is trying to obtain a seat.  His position is important. How he will decide is important. He is not a hypothetical. What do you think his views are?  Are they different from his own writing (as he claimes)? Did Bush alter his qualifications?<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=229852', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: mighty aphrodite</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2005/11/15/nominees-20-years/comment-page-4/#comment-229809</link>
		<dc:creator>mighty aphrodite</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Nov 2005 20:26:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/?p=2553#comment-229809</guid>
		<description>On topic: Dick Durbin, Ted &quot;the Swimmer&quot;, Al Gore, Bill Clinton, etc.  all held Pro-Life positions, (and then &quot;evolved&quot; into the Pro-&quot;Choice&quot;) - do you progs ever worry that they will switch back?? Maybe as they fear deah??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On topic: Dick Durbin, Ted &#8220;the Swimmer&#8221;, Al Gore, Bill Clinton, etc.  all held Pro-Life positions, (and then &#8220;evolved&#8221; into the Pro-&#8221;Choice&#8221;) &#8211; do you progs ever worry that they will switch back?? Maybe as they fear deah??<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=229809', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: mysticagent</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2005/11/15/nominees-20-years/comment-page-3/#comment-229411</link>
		<dc:creator>mysticagent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Nov 2005 16:36:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/?p=2553#comment-229411</guid>
		<description>I asked that last question, because you seem to argue that the ends justify the means:  that to catch a drug dealer criminal it is ok to search any children in the house.  &quot;The ends justifies the means&quot; does not hold up under analysis, but it fails instantly when the means do not provide the &#039;end&#039;:  that is, if the child had no drugs, then the suspicion was PROVEN to be unwarranted, and thus the &#039;means&#039; failed.  If this were the movies, then freely administered strip searches, and torture, etc., would be fine, because in the movies the bad guy is always identified, and it is always the bad guy who gets tortured, and then gives relevant info (etc.).  The real world is not the cinema (I am not being vitriolic or sarcastic - I presume you are intelligent, and know this, but I am pointing it out as it may have been forgotten).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I asked that last question, because you seem to argue that the ends justify the means:  that to catch a drug dealer criminal it is ok to search any children in the house.  &#8220;The ends justifies the means&#8221; does not hold up under analysis, but it fails instantly when the means do not provide the &#8216;end&#8217;:  that is, if the child had no drugs, then the suspicion was PROVEN to be unwarranted, and thus the &#8216;means&#8217; failed.  If this were the movies, then freely administered strip searches, and torture, etc., would be fine, because in the movies the bad guy is always identified, and it is always the bad guy who gets tortured, and then gives relevant info (etc.).  The real world is not the cinema (I am not being vitriolic or sarcastic &#8211; I presume you are intelligent, and know this, but I am pointing it out as it may have been forgotten).<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=229411', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: mysticagent</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2005/11/15/nominees-20-years/comment-page-3/#comment-229388</link>
		<dc:creator>mysticagent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Nov 2005 16:31:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/?p=2553#comment-229388</guid>
		<description>And... were there drugs on the child?....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And&#8230; were there drugs on the child?&#8230;.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=229388', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: mysticagent</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2005/11/15/nominees-20-years/comment-page-3/#comment-229321</link>
		<dc:creator>mysticagent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Nov 2005 16:11:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/?p=2553#comment-229321</guid>
		<description>It is not &quot;acting in deference&quot; to the drug dealer by NOT strip searching an underage child. If the police fully suspected that the child had drugs on her, it would have been more appropriate to take her (or the whole family) into custody, and obtain the proper warrant. Also, to ask the child, away from the parents, if they had drugs hidden on them. There is a good chance that most children would comply (espescially to avoid the embarrassment of being stripped naked by strangers and fondled and prodded). 
    The issue that most are upset about is not that this is an isoltad instance.  Our law leans heavily on precedent:  what was done before. To agree that the police can &quot;on the spot&quot; strip search a ten year old girl because they believe she may have drugs hidden on her is to agree that it is ok to do anytime an officer thinks that a child MIGHT have drugs on them. Precedent. So, say your child is out with friends. They are stopped by the police because one of them is suspected of dealing drugs.  The other children (to include yours) may or may not even be aware of that. Precedent states that the dealer may have the others carrying drugs, and so they are all to be strip searched.  
    There are consequences for setting legal precedents, particularly ones that aim at circumventing safety (civil rights) procedures.  
    The constitution states clearly that we are NOT to be exposed to any searches without a specific warrant that identifies the exact place OR PERSON to be searched, and precisely what it is they are searching for.  In other words, it is NOT o.k. to search someone or thier posessions just because you &quot;think&quot; they are guilty of wrongdoing.  Why?  Well, ask a white supremecist, and she will tell you that all black people are criminal.  Many people hold prejudiced views, and may not like how someone looks or dresses, and thus, based on superficial prejudice, may act in an inappropriate manner. 
    And you wish to offer a cover of &quot;no malicious intent&quot; to the police, but you do not wish to offer the same protection to a ten year old girl (that is, you say that the police should be given the benefit of the doubt as to being acting for the good of the community, as is their job.  But you don&#039;t want to offer a ten year old girl the protection of innocent until proven guilty, or the constitutional protection against unreasonable searches - and suspecting that the SUSPECTED dealer MIGHT have hidden drugs on the girl is NOT adequate... or do you argue that it is...). 
   And on the &quot;malicious intent&quot; - if you are typical of the right (I can&#039;t tell yet), you have a big problem with gays.  How do you know that that female officer was not gay?  How can you categorically say that there was no malicious intent? Would that not be a nice job for a gay officer?
    Alto believed that the police should be able to conduct strip searches where and when they deem it, INSTEAD of following our established and constitutional procedure of a clear and specific warrant (which are not THAT difficult to obtain, anyway - if you have PC).  That is directly against our constitution.  He does not want to clearly interpret it, he wants to change it. There is a difference.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is not &#8220;acting in deference&#8221; to the drug dealer by NOT strip searching an underage child. If the police fully suspected that the child had drugs on her, it would have been more appropriate to take her (or the whole family) into custody, and obtain the proper warrant. Also, to ask the child, away from the parents, if they had drugs hidden on them. There is a good chance that most children would comply (espescially to avoid the embarrassment of being stripped naked by strangers and fondled and prodded).<br />
    The issue that most are upset about is not that this is an isoltad instance.  Our law leans heavily on precedent:  what was done before. To agree that the police can &#8220;on the spot&#8221; strip search a ten year old girl because they believe she may have drugs hidden on her is to agree that it is ok to do anytime an officer thinks that a child MIGHT have drugs on them. Precedent. So, say your child is out with friends. They are stopped by the police because one of them is suspected of dealing drugs.  The other children (to include yours) may or may not even be aware of that. Precedent states that the dealer may have the others carrying drugs, and so they are all to be strip searched.<br />
    There are consequences for setting legal precedents, particularly ones that aim at circumventing safety (civil rights) procedures.<br />
    The constitution states clearly that we are NOT to be exposed to any searches without a specific warrant that identifies the exact place OR PERSON to be searched, and precisely what it is they are searching for.  In other words, it is NOT o.k. to search someone or thier posessions just because you &#8220;think&#8221; they are guilty of wrongdoing.  Why?  Well, ask a white supremecist, and she will tell you that all black people are criminal.  Many people hold prejudiced views, and may not like how someone looks or dresses, and thus, based on superficial prejudice, may act in an inappropriate manner.<br />
    And you wish to offer a cover of &#8220;no malicious intent&#8221; to the police, but you do not wish to offer the same protection to a ten year old girl (that is, you say that the police should be given the benefit of the doubt as to being acting for the good of the community, as is their job.  But you don&#8217;t want to offer a ten year old girl the protection of innocent until proven guilty, or the constitutional protection against unreasonable searches &#8211; and suspecting that the SUSPECTED dealer MIGHT have hidden drugs on the girl is NOT adequate&#8230; or do you argue that it is&#8230;).<br />
   And on the &#8220;malicious intent&#8221; &#8211; if you are typical of the right (I can&#8217;t tell yet), you have a big problem with gays.  How do you know that that female officer was not gay?  How can you categorically say that there was no malicious intent? Would that not be a nice job for a gay officer?<br />
    Alto believed that the police should be able to conduct strip searches where and when they deem it, INSTEAD of following our established and constitutional procedure of a clear and specific warrant (which are not THAT difficult to obtain, anyway &#8211; if you have PC).  That is directly against our constitution.  He does not want to clearly interpret it, he wants to change it. There is a difference.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=229321', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: Gregor Samsa</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2005/11/15/nominees-20-years/comment-page-3/#comment-227972</link>
		<dc:creator>Gregor Samsa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Nov 2005 07:40:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/?p=2553#comment-227972</guid>
		<description>Giacomo, 

I don&#039;t know what to tell you... I still think you are wrong.

Strip searching a ten year old child on the spot, in spite of the fact that there was no warrant for her, and only because she happened to be related, and she might have concealed drugs in her, and that might lead to the capture of a drug dealer... absolutely warranted the strip search of the child? 

The response is too absolutist for a situation that had too many &quot;ifs&quot; for my taste.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Giacomo, </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know what to tell you&#8230; I still think you are wrong.</p>
<p>Strip searching a ten year old child on the spot, in spite of the fact that there was no warrant for her, and only because she happened to be related, and she might have concealed drugs in her, and that might lead to the capture of a drug dealer&#8230; absolutely warranted the strip search of the child? </p>
<p>The response is too absolutist for a situation that had too many &#8220;ifs&#8221; for my taste.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=227972', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: Ryan Neat</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2005/11/15/nominees-20-years/comment-page-3/#comment-226884</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan Neat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Nov 2005 23:35:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/?p=2553#comment-226884</guid>
		<description>Actually the police did NOT have a search warrant to search the family, only the man itself.  So therefore GeoMetro, you&#039;re slow off the bat again.  I gave you the link for the case, go read up on it before you continue to show your idiocy and ignorance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually the police did NOT have a search warrant to search the family, only the man itself.  So therefore GeoMetro, you&#8217;re slow off the bat again.  I gave you the link for the case, go read up on it before you continue to show your idiocy and ignorance.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=226884', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: Giacomo</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2005/11/15/nominees-20-years/comment-page-3/#comment-225391</link>
		<dc:creator>Giacomo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Nov 2005 14:37:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/?p=2553#comment-225391</guid>
		<description>We were talking about this particular case ... not tragedy in any and all arenas.  I had argued that Alito&#039;s statements were 1) not in support of strip searching little girls in the general sense and 2) the way he supported that opinion made sense given the circumstances of that particular case.  That&#039;s all.

I then went on to support why I believed Alito&#039;s support made sense by saying we 1) shouldn&#039;t be acting in deference to drug dealers (of any type of drug) and 2) that said drug dealers were likely to have a larger impact on society than police strip searches ever could.

I do not believe that strip searches should be enaged upon without a warrant (which in this case the police did have ... they also stated that while not explicitly acknowledged in the warrant, they believed said warrant allowed them to search all the house occupants) nor am I for the roll back of ccivil liberties.  In this case, I think the police exercised sound judgement based on probable cause and precedent ... and that&#039;s what Alito said as well.

Ryan makes this into a macrofocued concept when all I was arguing were the merits of this case.  Trying to expand Alito&#039;s judgement on this particular case into saying that &quot;he supports stip searching little girls&quot; was, in my opinion, an oversimplification and disengenuous.  That&#039;s all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We were talking about this particular case &#8230; not tragedy in any and all arenas.  I had argued that Alito&#8217;s statements were 1) not in support of strip searching little girls in the general sense and 2) the way he supported that opinion made sense given the circumstances of that particular case.  That&#8217;s all.</p>
<p>I then went on to support why I believed Alito&#8217;s support made sense by saying we 1) shouldn&#8217;t be acting in deference to drug dealers (of any type of drug) and 2) that said drug dealers were likely to have a larger impact on society than police strip searches ever could.</p>
<p>I do not believe that strip searches should be enaged upon without a warrant (which in this case the police did have &#8230; they also stated that while not explicitly acknowledged in the warrant, they believed said warrant allowed them to search all the house occupants) nor am I for the roll back of ccivil liberties.  In this case, I think the police exercised sound judgement based on probable cause and precedent &#8230; and that&#8217;s what Alito said as well.</p>
<p>Ryan makes this into a macrofocued concept when all I was arguing were the merits of this case.  Trying to expand Alito&#8217;s judgement on this particular case into saying that &#8220;he supports stip searching little girls&#8221; was, in my opinion, an oversimplification and disengenuous.  That&#8217;s all.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=225391', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: Pragmatist</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2005/11/15/nominees-20-years/comment-page-3/#comment-224425</link>
		<dc:creator>Pragmatist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Nov 2005 05:42:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/?p=2553#comment-224425</guid>
		<description>Giacomo, I guess I don&#039;t see why we need to throw the baby out with the bathwater when it comes to the &quot;drug war.&quot;  Let&#039;s get things in perspective here.  Drugs fun, usually victimless, often bad.  Once in a while a kid ODs or is killed in drug-related violence; more often, they&#039;re killed in alcohol-related violence.  But kids get asthma and die from air contaminants released by poorly regulated industries.  They&#039;re run over and crushed in car accidents.  They die in southern Mississippi of malnutrition.  They&#039;re dismembered, burnt, and blown to bits in Iraq by munitions built with your tax dollars.  

Where&#039;s YOUR outrage?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Giacomo, I guess I don&#8217;t see why we need to throw the baby out with the bathwater when it comes to the &#8220;drug war.&#8221;  Let&#8217;s get things in perspective here.  Drugs fun, usually victimless, often bad.  Once in a while a kid ODs or is killed in drug-related violence; more often, they&#8217;re killed in alcohol-related violence.  But kids get asthma and die from air contaminants released by poorly regulated industries.  They&#8217;re run over and crushed in car accidents.  They die in southern Mississippi of malnutrition.  They&#8217;re dismembered, burnt, and blown to bits in Iraq by munitions built with your tax dollars.  </p>
<p>Where&#8217;s YOUR outrage?<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=224425', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: R.H.R</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2005/11/15/nominees-20-years/comment-page-3/#comment-224349</link>
		<dc:creator>R.H.R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Nov 2005 04:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/?p=2553#comment-224349</guid>
		<description>Bush raps China over freedom, vows to promote democracy in Asia

Setting the tone for a four-nation swing through the region, Bush told Asian leaders that freedom is on the march and cannot be stopped in their part of the world. He bluntly told Chinese leaders that economic freedom in China would inevitably break their hold on power.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bush raps China over freedom, vows to promote democracy in Asia</p>
<p>Setting the tone for a four-nation swing through the region, Bush told Asian leaders that freedom is on the march and cannot be stopped in their part of the world. He bluntly told Chinese leaders that economic freedom in China would inevitably break their hold on power.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=224349', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: Ryan Neat</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2005/11/15/nominees-20-years/comment-page-3/#comment-224348</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan Neat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Nov 2005 04:42:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/?p=2553#comment-224348</guid>
		<description>Giacomo

In amarillo texas (a great example small city with a big meth problem), the DEA has discovered 200-300 meth factories.  These are just the ones found.  Your idea of the &#039;big meth dealer&#039; is just as whacko as every other semi-illiterate anecdotal preconception you&#039;ve posted.  See the difference between you/us is that we actually check the &#039;claims&#039;.

As for the real point, searching someone without a search warrant is not only unconstitutional, it&#039;s UNAMERICAN.  Your justification of this action means you&#039;re nothing more than another rightwing police state retard.  WHACKO!

Franklin was thinking of the current republican values when he said!

Benjamin Franklin:
They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Giacomo</p>
<p>In amarillo texas (a great example small city with a big meth problem), the DEA has discovered 200-300 meth factories.  These are just the ones found.  Your idea of the &#8216;big meth dealer&#8217; is just as whacko as every other semi-illiterate anecdotal preconception you&#8217;ve posted.  See the difference between you/us is that we actually check the &#8216;claims&#8217;.</p>
<p>As for the real point, searching someone without a search warrant is not only unconstitutional, it&#8217;s UNAMERICAN.  Your justification of this action means you&#8217;re nothing more than another rightwing police state retard.  WHACKO!</p>
<p>Franklin was thinking of the current republican values when he said!</p>
<p>Benjamin Franklin:<br />
They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=224348', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: Ryan Neat</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2005/11/15/nominees-20-years/comment-page-3/#comment-224331</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan Neat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Nov 2005 04:25:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/?p=2553#comment-224331</guid>
		<description>Giacomo,

So in otherwords you think the &#039;drug in question&#039;, which is generally associate with black people, deserves different responses.  In otherwords, I was right about your bigotry.

Whacko republican fascist!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Giacomo,</p>
<p>So in otherwords you think the &#8216;drug in question&#8217;, which is generally associate with black people, deserves different responses.  In otherwords, I was right about your bigotry.</p>
<p>Whacko republican fascist!<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=224331', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: Gregor Samsa</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2005/11/15/nominees-20-years/comment-page-3/#comment-224286</link>
		<dc:creator>Gregor Samsa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Nov 2005 03:59:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/?p=2553#comment-224286</guid>
		<description>&quot;[Meth] also has â€œan extremely high profit marginâ€ â€¦ profit for whom I wonder&quot;
Comment by Giacomo â€” November 15, 2005 @ 10:01 pm 

Well, for the guy(s) cooking it in their kitchen.

&quot;Meth, while popular, is not the only drug in question as well, of course.&quot;
Comment by Giacomo â€” November 15, 2005 @ 10:01 pm 

Of course it is not the only one. That goes without saying. 

However â€“and this is something nobody seems to be talking about- abuse is not limited to substances such as Meth. I have personally seen kids get high on: glue, paint thinner, paint, sprays, and other chemicals that can easily be obtained at any hardware store, supermarket, etc. 

But that was not my point. I was trying to highlight how readily available meth is due to its fairly bare-bones manufacturing and distribution. Also, some of the chemicals I listed above probably wouldn&#039;t raise a flag for a lot of adults. 

Meth, marijuana, and other drugs are so easily available to middle and high school kids because they get them from their friends... at school. Thinking that drugs is a problem that only happens to the other kids in the neighbourhood and not yours, is a little too optimistic. And we have to consider that fact before granting search powers to the police. 

See? It is a very self-centered, selfish proposition, really: It could happen to my kids â€“I don&#039;t know that I want the police strip-searching them.

As I said before, thinking that bad things only happen to bad people is wrong â€“bad things are not punishment from some deity for our sinful actions. Getting caught in a legal tangle can happen to anyone. In general: I want the law to protect my family as well as myself from any abuse, by any authority. 

If that protection granted to my loved ones also happens to be extended to some rotten elements, well, so be it. I&#039;d rather have it that way. Specially considering that we have had some nutcases, in this very web site, advocating the use of torture on anyone who might, perhaps, maybe, potentially, could be involved with the &quot;bad guys&quot;. 

How exactly are we to determine who are those &quot;bad guys&quot; is anybody&#039;s guess. Maybe we will know they were the bad guys after the confess under the sheer pain of the torture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;[Meth] also has â€œan extremely high profit marginâ€ â€¦ profit for whom I wonder&#8221;<br />
Comment by Giacomo â€” November 15, 2005 @ 10:01 pm </p>
<p>Well, for the guy(s) cooking it in their kitchen.</p>
<p>&#8220;Meth, while popular, is not the only drug in question as well, of course.&#8221;<br />
Comment by Giacomo â€” November 15, 2005 @ 10:01 pm </p>
<p>Of course it is not the only one. That goes without saying. </p>
<p>However â€“and this is something nobody seems to be talking about- abuse is not limited to substances such as Meth. I have personally seen kids get high on: glue, paint thinner, paint, sprays, and other chemicals that can easily be obtained at any hardware store, supermarket, etc. </p>
<p>But that was not my point. I was trying to highlight how readily available meth is due to its fairly bare-bones manufacturing and distribution. Also, some of the chemicals I listed above probably wouldn&#8217;t raise a flag for a lot of adults. </p>
<p>Meth, marijuana, and other drugs are so easily available to middle and high school kids because they get them from their friends&#8230; at school. Thinking that drugs is a problem that only happens to the other kids in the neighbourhood and not yours, is a little too optimistic. And we have to consider that fact before granting search powers to the police. </p>
<p>See? It is a very self-centered, selfish proposition, really: It could happen to my kids â€“I don&#8217;t know that I want the police strip-searching them.</p>
<p>As I said before, thinking that bad things only happen to bad people is wrong â€“bad things are not punishment from some deity for our sinful actions. Getting caught in a legal tangle can happen to anyone. In general: I want the law to protect my family as well as myself from any abuse, by any authority. </p>
<p>If that protection granted to my loved ones also happens to be extended to some rotten elements, well, so be it. I&#8217;d rather have it that way. Specially considering that we have had some nutcases, in this very web site, advocating the use of torture on anyone who might, perhaps, maybe, potentially, could be involved with the &#8220;bad guys&#8221;. </p>
<p>How exactly are we to determine who are those &#8220;bad guys&#8221; is anybody&#8217;s guess. Maybe we will know they were the bad guys after the confess under the sheer pain of the torture.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=224286', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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