TortureIsNotUS:
American Progress just launched TortureIsNotUS.org, a new campaign in support of the McCain anti-torture amendment. They’ve also got a TV ad they hope to air soon. Check it out. With your help, this is a fight we can win.
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62 Responses to “TortureIsNotUS:”
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The white phosphorus case is just what the US needed on top of all of the very helpful Abu Ghraib photos.
If we have any standing left in the international community at all that’ll push it over the cliff. And, of course, the president has great moral authority to wag his finger at the Chinese on the current trip (didn’t Nixon go to China at the height of domestic discontent as well?).
Hopefully your effort will a signal to the world that dubya, Rummy, Cheney, Libby, et al are not the real Americans. Congrats and good luck on this effort.
I try and make the point through parody…anything for the cause. New on EWM: Pentagon Caught Torturing Prisoners with Medicare Prescription Drug Benefit Applications
November 16th, 2005 at 8:23 amAmnesty International calls practice “barbaricâ€
To counter a persistent fallacy, liberals do not object to torture out of any love for terrorists or disrespect for America. We just realize that these things are morally wrong, un-American, and hypocritical for an ostensibly civilized country to carry out.
More here:
http://blogdebogs.blogspot.com/ 2005/ 11/ id-classify-this-as-hypocrisy.html
November 16th, 2005 at 9:06 amWhite phosphorus is THE No. 1 story on BBC’s website today.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4442156.stm
The saddest quote in the article : “Washington is not a signatory to an international treaty restricting the use of the substance against CIVILIANS.”
November 16th, 2005 at 9:07 amIsn’t one of the main reasons we deposed Saddam because of his record of torture against his own people? The practice of torture makes us no better than the terrorists we oppose, and issues like White Phosoporous and Abu Ghraib only provide recruiting material and motivation for those who seek to terrorize us.
November 16th, 2005 at 9:13 am#4, Ryan
Bingo! No wonder this Admin seeks to gag anti-war speech.
November 16th, 2005 at 9:25 amThose Who live by the Sword, DIE by the Sword.
November 16th, 2005 at 9:31 amBeat your sword into a plowshare
And Mr Bush,, That is the problem! NOT the Solution~
“Men and women who are allowed to control their own wealth will eventually insist on controlling their own lives and their own future,†he said. “As China reforms its economy, its leaders are finding that once the door to freedom is opened even a crack, it cannot be closed.â€
November 16th, 2005 at 9:35 amWhite Phosphorous and more. The Use of High Power Microwave Weapons, a few reports out there on melting buses, people etc, may also be or have been used. –AJ
November 16th, 2005 at 9:37 amAnd Mr Bush,, That is the problem! NOT the Solution~
“Men and women who are allowed to control their own wealth will eventually insist on controlling their own lives and their own future,†he said. “As China reforms its economy, its leaders are finding that once the door to freedom is opened even a crack, it cannot be closed.â€
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!WARNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
November 16th, 2005 at 9:38 am!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Point of friction!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Comparing Taiwan and China, even indirectly, raises a major thorn in U.S.-China relations. China regards the island as its own and has threatened to invade if Taiwan declares formal independence. While U.S. policy recognizes only one China — including Taiwan — and opposes Taiwanese independence,
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!WARNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
November 16th, 2005 at 9:39 am!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Point of friction!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Comparing Taiwan and China, even indirectly, raises a major thorn in U.S.-China relations. China regards the island as its own and has threatened to invade if Taiwan declares formal independence. While U.S. policy recognizes only one China — including Taiwan — and opposes Taiwanese independence,
Bush Family & Friends Are
- Anti American, -
Killing Democracy and the Environment
The Buffalo Party com, Says
JAIL Em All, NOW
http://www.TheBuffaloParty.com
November 16th, 2005 at 9:52 amblogged and linked…
http://takeitpersonally.blogspot.com/ 2005/ 11/ torture-is-not-us.html
November 16th, 2005 at 9:58 amWhy does everyone in this site hate the President? Isn’t it wrong to hate? Why not support his efforts to install democracy in the world? Do you people hate the democracy which gives you the right to slander the President and the military?
November 16th, 2005 at 10:07 am“Isn’t it wrong to hate?”
What kind of remark is that?
November 16th, 2005 at 10:13 am#14 - you all are so filled with hatred - it’s scary. It’s one thing to disagree with your opponent, but you seek to destroy them. I pray that you see the error of your ways before this Administration exploits your hatred for their political gain. They have been pretty good at that for sometime and now we are stuck with a GOP congress.
November 16th, 2005 at 10:15 amPNAC sets our foreign policy. They are Imperialists. They think they are doing the right things. They are hurting America. They have already damaged our own Democracy. PNAC assumes that our survival is contingent on Muslims being democratic and capitolist. It is a false assumption. Everything they do hangs on this assumption.
November 16th, 2005 at 10:19 am“It’s scary…I pray”
That just about says it all. Your kind knows torture is illegal and useless but you do it anyway because it makes you feel good. Go to hell, Mr. Souter, before I reach through this computer and smash you like a wet turd.
November 16th, 2005 at 10:22 am#16 - it’s an unproven assumption, not a false one. I do not support the war, but I do support the military and I don’t think we should be focusing on a few instances where they do something bad as opposed to all the good they are at least trying to do.
Bush is a liar, but all Presidents are. Progressives need a more thoughtful alternative than just slander.
November 16th, 2005 at 10:22 am#13 Souter, I can address that… I personally hate Bush because he’s a liar, he’s corrupt and he’s misguided… he choses bigotry over tolerance, and business over the needs of the average guy… he’s handed our law books over to corporations, and all the important government positions to his unqualified buddies… he held a lavish and expensive re-inauguration ceremony right after it was revealed that our troops are over in Iraq without sufficient armor… how crass can you be? he calls himself a pro-lifer yet launched a war that has killed tens of thousands… oh yeah, and he’s an uneducated nitwit… I could go on…
I don’t hate democracy, I love it… but George “No Dissent Allowed” Bush doesn’t represent the ideal of democracy… he’s a poster child for Republican greed and hypocrisy… I could go on…
sorry guys, I know I’m feeding the troll… I should just let him get back to his spot under the bridge, where he belongs…
November 16th, 2005 at 10:22 amYou are a confused person, Mr. Souter. Good luck.
November 16th, 2005 at 10:24 amMr Souter is employing the Bushco technique of re-framing the issue. Typically, it works this way. Opposition is framed as “Hating” (Bush, America, soldiers, etc.) then the focus is on “Why do you hate?” which is protrayed as being much worse than the Bushco actions. So avoid being baited. . . . opposition to policy and pointing out lack of honesty is not “hating.” This president has done more to divide America than ever before. Why? Because it keeps the focus off of him and his pals and allows fringe issues on the front burner while major issues slide under the radar. We need to keep all this gangs failings on the table!!!
November 16th, 2005 at 10:32 amPete - I think you should focus on something constructive. AND Bush does not trash dissent - look at what is said about him on a daily basis. It is just a matter of time before the left-wing attack backfires on Democrats and we are stuck with more failed GOP policies. Let’s stand for something constructive.
November 16th, 2005 at 10:34 am#22: “AND Bush does not trash dissent…”
Wow, Steven. You obviously haven’t been paying attention.
And when he’s not trashing it, he’s suppressing it.
November 16th, 2005 at 10:41 am“I’m scared. Torturing people makes me feel safe.”
Steve Sooter
November 16th, 2005 at 10:44 am“Hell, blind revenge feels good, too, come to think of it”
Steve Sooter
November 16th, 2005 at 10:45 amSS (how appropriate) — WAKE UP. I guess ignorance is bliss.
November 16th, 2005 at 11:21 amSS,
If this is where a democracy leads, why would anyone sign up…our country attempted to break the mold, with a new style of government that gave the power to decide to the people.
What that has turned in to today is a farse, where those in power get rich of the backs of the people and institute policies and practices that do not hold the welfare of the citizins in high regard.
Instead we are being plagued with greed, exploitation, hypocracy, and lies. They aren’t even hidden anymore…the Democracy that was attempted has failed, and now our country is over run by a ruling class that go to Ivy league schools, own the media, and dictate our lives.
Where are our decisions…sure we have free speech, but where does that get us if no one listens?
‘we shouldn’t hate Bush’
Why the fvck not, he has dedicated the last 5 years of his life of running this country in the ground so him and his pals (which he blatently surrounds himself with, regardless of how unqualified) can get rich and feel the power of ru(i)nning the greatest nation in modern history? What are they compensating for?
Thank you for reading my rant…
November 16th, 2005 at 11:46 amChris
#27: “…that go to Ivy league schools”
I wish people what stop associating getting a top education with being an evil bastard. Being highly educated is not a bad thing in itself.
November 16th, 2005 at 11:49 am#18
“I do not support the war, but I do support the military and I don’t think we should be focusing on a few instances where they do something bad as opposed to all the good they are at least trying to do.”
If you supported the military you would not want them to do any bad. “Our Enemies” will focus on the bad as a recruiting tool. Thus any bad puts the military in more danger. Torture, attacking civilians, caring more about oil than people all give our enemies more fuel for recruiting.
The Ends do not (ever) justify the means. The bad things are mounting up, and are more than just “a few instances”. At what point is it too much for you? How much are innocent lives worht to you? If you ask me, One innocent life is too many to take.
“Bush is a liar, but all Presidents are. Progressives need a more thoughtful alternative than just slander.”
If it’s true it is not slander. I also don’t think that all presidents are Liars. Would you accuse George Washington of Lying? Abraham Lincoln? Jimmy Carter? Please explain why if you think any of these lied (with references)…
Z.
November 16th, 2005 at 11:53 am#28, I think the point was being made that these people consider themselves to be an elite.
I am fairly well educated (BSc in Applied Physics, MSc in Software Technology) and I see nothing wrong with a good education.
However, I dislike the idea that because A got a good education as his parents could pay for it that he is somehow worth more than B who got a reasonable education because he worked for it and C who was born in a third world country and so didn’t get a western style education at all. All three of these hypothetical people would have their own strenghts and weaknesses.
Z.
November 16th, 2005 at 11:59 am#28
November 16th, 2005 at 12:01 pmIt is not all who go to ivy league, or go to college, $hit I degree from a reputable school in Boston and have family members that have atteneded Ivy league… there is nothing more vauable that an education…it is just a place where those who are evil can buddy up, where they can meet, plan and begin to execute their evil, greedy policies, sorry to offend you
16 ¶ And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
November 16th, 2005 at 12:19 pm17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
16 ¶ And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
November 16th, 2005 at 12:20 pm17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
#31: “sorry to offend you”
I wasn’t really offended. I just think it’s a bad idea to associate education with the evil elite, especially when we have a president who seems to take pride in being uneducated, who proudly proclaims he does not read books or newspapers.
November 16th, 2005 at 12:23 pm#22 - my God, you’re right! what have I been doing with my life?
I can’t think of anything more constructive right now than seeing an end to the Bush Regime, which has been more destructive to our country than anything in recent history…
Merry Fitzmas!
November 16th, 2005 at 12:23 pmSuperEdo , Zwack , READ, GET EDUCATED!
16 ¶ And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
November 16th, 2005 at 12:40 pm17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
as uneducated as he acts, and demonstrates, he still went to Yale
November 16th, 2005 at 12:45 pmI DID NOT POST # 37….how many times do I have to add to my handle!!!!
November 16th, 2005 at 12:54 pmI did read the bible once, it took a while, but there other novels with better plots
November 16th, 2005 at 12:55 pm2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
November 16th, 2005 at 1:10 pm3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
#33 was not by me…
If you notice I usually sign mine…
Z.
November 16th, 2005 at 1:14 pmFront page - New York Times, today. Re: Torture Alleged at Ministry Site Outside Baghdad, “…American Embassy and United States military command called the sitiuation ‘totally unaccepable’ and said American officials ‘agree with Iraq’s leaders that mistreatment of detainees will not be tolerated.’”
What? American’s in Iraq not tolerating mistreatment of detainees. Seems hypocritical, doesn’t it?
Sounds like there used to be Sunni’s in power abusing others. Now, there are Shiites and Americans in power abusing people.
Good thing Bush liberated Iraq and avoided civil war and chaos. Oh… no he didn’t.
November 16th, 2005 at 1:19 pm#44, Ryan, it’s probably not SuperEdo particularly given #33, #37 and…
Someone is posting Bible passages pointed at particular people with no relevance, no thought and no use of their own name.
Given that they don’t want to actually debate, and they don’t care about the truth (In the side discussion about education I mention my level of formal education, yet I was told to “get educated”). They don’t care about faith, my faith is not something I have raised in this discussion as I feel it is irrelevant. Morals and Ethics argue against torture without needing to resort to faith based arguments which require someone to share the same faith as you.
There are also certain biblical passages referring to motes in your brothers eyes which this person should read… But then considering that they are impersonating others to post, they probably don’t have any Moral or Ethical beliefs themselves.
Z.
November 16th, 2005 at 1:56 pmWow, I posted Bible passages without remembering I did so. I must have been in a Holy Trance.
November 16th, 2005 at 2:04 pmDoh! That explains it… here was me jumping to the conclusion that someone else had posted in my name when clearly the answer is that God possessed my body and made me write those messages. That is obviously a clearer and more rational answer than my previous one. Is this proof that Intelligent Design is right after all?
William of Occam was clearly wrong. The most complex and least provable explanation is usually right.
Z.
November 16th, 2005 at 2:45 pmThe Bible in context is not a bad thing. Using it promote hate is. The mysterious posts above do not seem to have any relevance other than to project theological superiority. Once one resorts to that behavior, they are not “holy” in any way.
November 16th, 2005 at 2:53 pmdid i forget to lock my computer too?
November 16th, 2005 at 3:00 pmBibles are collection of fairy tales. They’re useful, just as grimm’s is useful to children. But they’re useful MYTHOLOGY. People who believe them literally are the same people who end up on an IV drip, being fed anti-psychotic medication while strapped down.
November 16th, 2005 at 4:24 pmYou’re a lost sinner Ryan–in need of a savior. Search the scriptures and you will find Him. Once you do, You’ll finally get it–you’ll know why so many call the Bible the Word of God, and why they hold to their faith not matter what. Until then, there’s no way for you can understand. BUT try to understand this–You are an enemy of God (we all are, but some of us no longer)and you need to repent.
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