William Arkin,
By on Nov 16th, 2005 at 5:17 pm
William Arkin,
defense analyst and Washington Post blogger, on white phosphorous weapons being used in Iraq: “What I’m sure of is that the use of white phosphorous is not just some insensitive act. It is not just bad P.R. It is the ill thought out and panicked use of a weapon in an illegitimate way. It is a representation of a losing strategy.“
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It’s CHEMICAL WARFARE.
The US used WMDs that killed civilians! The italians had irrefutable proof is the only reason we admitted it!
November 16th, 2005 at 5:29 pmThis is disgusting. We are supposed to be better than this. This entire administration has to go.
November 16th, 2005 at 5:29 pmRepublicans call us weak. But when one of our soldiers is captured, we expect them to treat him/her humanely.
November 16th, 2005 at 5:37 pmRead Molly Ivans on this topic too. She’s brilliant and say’s it all correctly.
http://www.commondreams.org/views05/1115-20.htm
This is no longer the country I grew to live in and love. Whatever happened to ethics and morality? Aren’t _we_ supposed to be better than this???
November 16th, 2005 at 5:39 pmGuys, the story here is that the truth had to be dragged out of the Pentagon, who are quick to lie and spin at any opportunity. WP has been around for DECADES as a tactical too, just like a rifle. To call it chemical warfare is not fair. The bottom line is that people are dying every day…don’t get sucked in to parsing what is and what isn’t disgusting about this war.
November 16th, 2005 at 5:40 pmFirst note that WP is not a banned chemical weapon under any treaty to which the US is a signatory. Nor is it banned under any treaty (signatory or not) the way mustard gas is. Its use in certain civilian areas is banned under a convention which the US has not signed, which may or may not cover the way in which US used WP in Falluja.
However, use of WP as a weapon is against US military doctrine, horrible if used in an area populated by civilians, just plain idiotic from a PR point of view, and insane in a war where we are supposed to be winning hearts and minds.
November 16th, 2005 at 5:40 pmI wonder if Saddam signed any treaties that prohibited him from using WMDs, or if that was his miserable excuse as well.
November 16th, 2005 at 5:45 pmcorrection: tactical TOOL
ugh, we’re on the same page.
November 16th, 2005 at 5:45 pm#5 – You’re right! I remember reading the Marine manifest that was revealed just about a year ago. On the list of items entering Iraq were the decendants of Naplam.
Problem #2 – the MSM didn’t pick up on it.
November 16th, 2005 at 5:45 pm#1 says the Italians knew……..
November 16th, 2005 at 5:46 pmCould there be a link to those unfortunate journalists from Italy who got all shot up?
Very good information here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_phosphorus
November 16th, 2005 at 5:52 pmsnookered, payback is a bitch isn’t it. I guess the military shouldn’t have tried to assassinate their journalists, now they’re actually doing REAL journalism. Something our pathetic press appears consistently incapable of.
And the best part is that they got the pentagon to ADMIT they’d used them as weapons/WMDs (although they didn’t use ‘that’ term).
November 16th, 2005 at 5:55 pmand if you’re sickened by WP, you’ll surely revile this new weapon. big downer:
http://www.defensetech.org/archives/001944.html
at least with the SMAWNE, we can tell our lawmakers that this weapon is inhumane and attempt to have it banned before it becomes a permenant part of the arsenal.
November 16th, 2005 at 5:56 pmIt would help if the Pentagon’s first instinct wasn’t to lie about all this.
November 16th, 2005 at 5:57 pmTake alook at the video of the aftermath of WP on michaelmoore.com or read an interview with a marine back from Iraq who helped stack a warehouse full of badly burned bodies(WP) in Fallujah on democracynow.com.
November 16th, 2005 at 6:03 pmKeith, I understand. It’s exceptionally gruesome. But bodies burned by million dollar ’smart’ bombs that miss their targets are just as horrible. It sucks. All of it. Badly. I think it’s right to take issue with this shitty war, but to blame WP is like criticizing the Titanic band for what they were playing as the ship sunk.
November 16th, 2005 at 6:15 pmWhite Phosphorous kills everything in a 900 feet diameter circle by incenerating its skin. It burns the lungs of everyone within a much greater distance. This isn’t a ‘bomb’, it’s a chemical weapon.
It goes into the realm of a dictator, and an evil war machine. Not only because it isn’t a ’smart bomb’, but because it’s intentionally hateful and vicious.
November 16th, 2005 at 6:18 pmAh… the glories of Iraqi Freedom… NOT!
This is what we did to innocent people defending their own country. Retard Repugs still winning hearts and minds.
November 16th, 2005 at 6:28 pm#10 THIS was among the stories that Sgrena was bringing back from her reporting duties in Iraq. Then there was the full-of-holes story about the shoot-up at the checkpoint. She said from the start that the attack was deliberate, and considering what we have learned about the Rumsfeld’s Pentagon, I am not finding this unbelievable.
November 16th, 2005 at 6:37 pmMy heart is breaking — I don’t recognize my country any more. I don’t know how to tell my children and grandchildren. I always thought we were the best, the ones on moral high ground, the beacon of the world; if I, as a patriotic American, feel betrayed by Bush & Co. I can only imagine what the rest of the world thinks.
November 16th, 2005 at 6:42 pmThe Bush/Cheney cabal has destroyed our name, our credibility, and worst of all, it has destroyed the national spirit of many Americans.
The true spirited americans are rising against this gang of thugs in the white house
November 16th, 2005 at 6:45 pmI’m certainly no supporter of white phosphorus or any of their “weapons of acceptable destruction” but the MSM ought to be taken to task as well.
How many times have we seen them report with zeal about cluster bombs, bunker busters, shock and awe, and a hundred other deadly devices like they were a damn videogame in which you get points for killing Iraqis.
This is sickening beyond comprehension. First my country opposes an amendment requiring that we not torture detainees, now we’ll be taken to task for our use of WMD.
How the hell are we proving to the 95 percent of the people on this planet that are not American that we’re safe to be amongst them?
New on EWM: Pentagon Caught Torturing Prisoners with Medicare Prescription Drug Benefit Applications
November 16th, 2005 at 6:49 pmAmnesty International calls practice “barbaricâ€
It is NOT a failed strategy. It IS the strategy, namely GENOCIDE.
“There is no more Iraq. There will be three territories.” — Kissinger, early 2004
Dismantling a disarmed country by civil war, in order to keep 15 permanent airbases in the region.
Killing as many Iraqis as possible under the lie of ‘liberation,’ and destroying as much cultural material as possible, most blatantly:
• Koran-Torah Repository — burned to the ground, total loss.
• National Library — burned to the ground, but mullahs who didn’t trust the US removed much of the library to their mosques before the invasion.
• National Museum — looted by Chalabi/US forces, reportedly after US tank broke down the front doors. Priceless treasures now in private Western hands.
• Archaeological sites — damaged by heavy vehicles and nearby bombings, a great amount of lost scientific work.
Destruction of cultural property and mass killings like Fallujah, Al-Qa’im, and others = GENOCIDE.
“Article 2
In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
• (a) Killing members of the group;
November 16th, 2005 at 7:13 pm• (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
• (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; “
#23,
Your itemization of the destruction gave me the following thought :
Iraq: the cradle and grave of civilization.
November 16th, 2005 at 7:46 pmIt’s been confirmed by the pentagon. But you won’t find this in the American Media:
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/F28D95E6-A0A4-42EE-8072-7A87B45141DB.htm
We have violated international law. This is chemical warfare. The use of the MRK-77 has not yet been admitted too, but it’s simply todays Napalm, which is another violation of international law.
This administration is full of war criminals. No better than Saddam himself.
“States are not moral agents.” -Chomsky
November 16th, 2005 at 7:47 pmI love the smell of Willy’s peter in the morning. Or the evening for that matter!
November 16th, 2005 at 9:08 pmWe have violated international law. This is chemical warfare. The use of the MRK-77 has not yet been admitted too, but it’s simply todays Napalm, which is another violation of international law.
————————————–
November 16th, 2005 at 9:35 pmIn the Central American War against the poor .Entire villages were victims of Napalm. Village children were found burned with a white power residue on their bodies ……. good book to read about America’s Role In Central America is Witness To War by Charles Clements md ……..I think what is happening is the same thing that happened in Central America by many of the same people …..We must hold cheney/bush/rice/rumsfeld accountable for this illegal act of war ,its nothing more than a mass killing of innocent people for the natural resources that Iraq holds…. This is the biggest heist ever in the history of the world and bushco is going to invade Syria and Iran for two more wars ,if this happens bush will not leave office ……..
And The Rest of the Run
This should be the last of the blogs from the final run through my list tonight. But, it’s a classic. It begins with something about UFO’s. One of my favorite topics, but one we seldom touch on here.
November 16th, 2005 at 10:06 pmPlease read the comments below that story in the WaPo.
An excellent, impassioned discussion.
November 17th, 2005 at 2:01 amI was in Korea in 1950-1951. I dont know if WP artillery shells were used, or WP bombs.
But I do know that we used WP grenades. I personally used them just about every night I was there. They were great for lighting up the area after rolling them down a hillside, and, as far as protection was concerned, one would hear a squeal every once in a while.
November 17th, 2005 at 10:50 amIf you think what was done with WP is bad wait till the truth comes out regarding the massive quantities of di-hydrogen monoxide that we’ve shipped in. That stuff has been unleashed on Iraqi civilians in concentrations that are virtually 100% undiluted. DHMO kills thousands every year through simple inhalation and we’ve been using in indiscriminately in Iraq from the start.
November 17th, 2005 at 11:30 amIt’s not a panicked use of it. It’s well within U.S. Army doctrine to use W.P. in this way. It’s not like they just made it up, they have done it that way for years. I hate to say it but this is a case of a news story taking off on it’s own.
November 17th, 2005 at 12:32 pmJoseph,
That use is banned in many international treaties. If you say americans have used it this way for years, I want proof. Otherwise you’re just talking out of your ass like most lying republicans.
November 17th, 2005 at 9:07 pmThis is the key phrase:
“Venable said white phosphorus shells are a standard weapon used by field artillery units and are not banned by any international weapons convention to which the United States is a signatory.”
The US relies on these shells, and therefore has refused to sign onto the international treaties that DO treat it as a chemical weapon. The fact they didn’t sign a treaty, doesn’t change the fact of what the weapon is, or how it was used. Lots of people do bad things they don’t realize are bad, but it doesn’t change the fact of what happened. The poor slobs who worked at abu graib didn’t seem to know they were torturing either, but their ignorance didn’t change the brutality of their act.
These shells are so powerful the incenerate everthing within 450 feet of the shell (that’s a long fvcking way!), and they poison the air in a much larger area much as mustard gas does. This isn’t just a firebomb, it’s a firebomb with a chemical weapons chaser!
And it was fired into areas that included civilians, which is clearly an act of terrorism from where I sit.
November 17th, 2005 at 9:12 pmI hate to say it but this is a case of a news story taking off on it’s own.
Comment by Joseph — November 17, 2005 @ 12:32 pm
Well, let’s see what you think after you see the pictures, Joseph.
From the wikipedia:
“Use of white phosphorus is not specifically banned by any treaty, however the 1980 Convention on Conventional Weapons (Protocol III) prohibits the use of incendiary weapons against civilian populations or by air attack against military forces that are located within concentrations of civilians.”
It is always illegal to use White Phosphorus against civilians.
What follows is Jeff Englehart’s account. He is an ex-Marine who served in Fallujah. This is what he said during an interview with Amy Goodman of “Democracy Now”:
“We were told going into Fallujah that every single person going into the combat area that was walking, talking, breathing was an enemy combatant.(…) It seemed like just a massive killing of Arabs. It looked like just a massive killing.(…) Burned bodies. Burned children. Burned women. White phosphorus kills indiscriminately.”
Find the full text of his interview here: http://www.democracynow.org/ article.pl?sid=05/ 11/ 08/ 1516227
If you have the stomach, you can follow the links to the video and the photos.
Watch the video, courtesy of RAI News 24 (an Italian satellite TV station), here:
http://www.rainews24.rai.it/ran24/inchiesta/video/fallujah_ING.wmv
or here:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=RAI20051108&articleId=1211
You can see the pictures here:
November 17th, 2005 at 11:46 pmhttp://www.rainews24.rai.it/ran24/inchiesta/slideshow.asp?gallery=1&id=2