Where Bush Is Leading Iraq
By on Nov 17th, 2005 at 4:27 pm
Where Bush Is Leading Iraq
Where President Bush leads…
Bush Defends CIA’s Clandestine Prisons; ‘We Do Not Torture,’ President Says
President Bush, defending a clandestine U.S. prison system abroad for terrorism suspects, said Monday that his administration would continue to aggressively battle terrorism in sometimes unconventional but always lawful ways. [Washington Post, 11/8/05]
…Iraq follows.
Iraq defends secret prison, denies torture
Iraqi Interior Minister Bayan Jabr said Thursday a secret prison near Baghdad was used only for the worst criminals, and claims of torture are exaggerated. [UPI, 11/17/05]
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we lead by example.
November 17th, 2005 at 4:30 pmDoes Georgie have no one around him who understands that if he would just come out and denounce (and actually stop) torture and secret prisons, it would do him a world of good?
November 17th, 2005 at 4:39 pmJust like Saddam learned from Reagan, the new Iraqi leadership has learned from Bush the Dumber.
This business of torture sickens me. Is this what the US stands for? Didn’t we get all pissy and nearly into a war with the Sovs over human rights issues?
November 17th, 2005 at 4:42 pmBush’s Iraq report card…
November 17th, 2005 at 4:42 pm“Until the public is willing to tell you where the insurgent is you’re not going to win this warâ€
-John Murtha, noting a statistic that 45% of Iraqis think attacks on coalition forces are justified and that 80% are against occupation(Correction).
November 17th, 2005 at 4:42 pmThis is what they, the Cheney Administration, want. They want everyone to know that the prisons are in Poland and Romania. The most recent Al-Qualude memos speak of retaliation against Spain, already happened, and Poland is next, both for their support in Iraq. So the next attack will be in Poland and this will give us an excuse to STRENGTHEN OUR RESOLVE and thus continue in our own self inflicted war on terror and who will be blamed this time THE MEDIA, mainly the Wash. Post. Mark my words this will happen.
November 17th, 2005 at 4:44 pmChalabi is a part of the Iraqi govt. and we all know how credible he is.
November 17th, 2005 at 4:48 pm“Meet the new boss, same as the old boss….”
November 17th, 2005 at 4:51 pm#6 – good points. Frankly I’m a little surprise Italy hasn’t bee “hit” yet.
The Italians have politically sided with the US. Though you should see what’s go’n on all over northern Italy. “PACE” (peace) rainbow flags hung from balconys everywhere and are being sold in markets all over Florence.
November 17th, 2005 at 4:52 pmRemeber when Amnesty Internationals’ spoke person came out a while back and made a comparison to the GULAG? What major player in the Administration did NOT come out and attack the comparison. No need to wonder why now. Mi gulag es Su Gulag.Or is it This is not your Father’s Gulag?
November 17th, 2005 at 4:52 pmFortunately, others in the US have the spine to stand up to the Country Club CEO “leadership”.
“…”It is time for a change in direction,” said Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa., one of Congress’ most hawkish Democrats. “Our military is suffering, the future of our country is at risk. We cannot continue on the present course. It is evident that continued military action in Iraq is not in the best interests of the United States of America, the Iraqi people or the Persian Gulf region.”…” [ http://news.yahoo.com/fc/world/iraq ]
November 17th, 2005 at 4:54 pmYo Jesus, great post your lordship also check out ROD, MR. Epitome of Social Conservative, Dreher’s post today in the corner over at the National Refute, this is staring to nibble at the margins for them in a big way. Enjoy http://www.corner.nationalreview.com/
November 17th, 2005 at 5:00 pmBush on Iraq: Then and Now.
November 17th, 2005 at 5:12 pmEXCUSE ME! Massive apologies to all at this blog for my insolence in not SCROLLING DOWN to see the point about Rod Dreher had already been made. This is why you folks are the best. SO SORRY! I had just sat down with my first Guiness and loved the first topic and fired away without digging. Thanks for forgiveness. AMF
November 17th, 2005 at 5:17 pmAny proof that there is torture going on at these not-so-secret-anymore-prisons-that-WAPO-outed-illegally?
Didn’t think so.
November 17th, 2005 at 5:39 pm#16 CI, check out bbc.co.uk then choose news, world. Warning: picture is not pretty.
November 17th, 2005 at 5:46 pmBBC reports the real news.
November 17th, 2005 at 5:48 pmJust because Bush says it – that means it isn’t happening? Thinking people don’t believe him or trust him. So now the Iraqi government is doing it too — how is this different than government under the leader we just removed from Iraq? Could it be because they see that we have done it also – so what we say is meaningless? Have we come full circle?
November 17th, 2005 at 5:51 pm#16 CI, come on troll, I’m waiting for an answer.
November 17th, 2005 at 5:55 pmDidn’t the BBC get caught reporting false info on the Iraq war?
Well, yes they did but most of what they report is real — right Susan?
Oh, and Gary, that picture was taken at one of the “secret” prisons? Nope.
November 17th, 2005 at 5:59 pm#19…Keep waiting!!!
He has to find the political pundit site that can properly phrase the twisted truth of what can only be extrapolated as inflated B*LLSH*T…
So, please ensure you have your gas mask ready, because this one is going to be a classic retort of the Scott McClellan sighting, for plausible denials and non-answers…
November 17th, 2005 at 6:01 pm#16 CI, I’m still waiting for an answer – may I take it by your silence you have humiliated yourself into submission? Troll.
November 17th, 2005 at 6:02 pmSiliconeBoob,
Not the BBC got caught accusing Blair of sexing up the Iraq evidence – something that the Downing Street Memo later proved to be true.
You really should keep up, you’re looking horribly stupid as usual.
November 17th, 2005 at 6:04 pmCI – there’s no pictures from the secret prisons yet but unfortunately there will be…… or do you really think torture happens in one prison and not another? Troll! You think there’s something false about that picture? Idiot!
November 17th, 2005 at 6:06 pmSiliconeBoob,
Do you have proof that there’s no torture there? Nope. So like all typical religious and republican dopes, in the absent of proof one way or another, you make an assumption, a conclusion and a hysterical statement.
We already know that the US tortured in secret prisons in Afghanistan, and Iraq. It’s pretty safe to bet there’s a good chance the same thing happened in europe. Even if it didn’t, secret prisons are what Dictators have – and your defense of the practice is what fascist apologists do. Thanks for proving to everyone what I’ve said about you is true!
November 17th, 2005 at 6:07 pmWe don’t torture? What were all those photos of the bull-dagger smoking a cigarette and pointing at privates all about? Good clean fun? Does Bushie-boy think we’ve all got amnesia? He’s not to be believed (as usual).
November 17th, 2005 at 6:30 pm#26 Ryan, spot on, “It’s pretty safe to bet there’s a good chance the same thing happened in europe.”
this is what concerns the European Governments right now with the CIA planes landing illegally in their countries. I fear there will be a significant diplomatic storm with America – good for outing repugnicans – bad for the long term reputation of the majority of good Americans. Trolls like CI only make themselves out to be the idiots they really are across the world.
November 17th, 2005 at 6:33 pmThese are the same people that said we didn’t use chemical weapons until the Italians showed the video. The military thought they’d confiscated all of the film – they were wrong. They denied it until the videos and pictures surfaced, then they acknowledged it, but claimed they had only used it on insurgents. I didn’t know toddlers were now considered insurgents in Iraq.
The republicans are the party of national shame!
November 17th, 2005 at 6:38 pmWait a minute, who said there was torture at these secret prisons? Did the Washington post suggest that. I thought the issue was Ghost detainees. Pay attention to what the president said in response to the secret prisons, he said we dont torture, did he say we dont hold ghost detainees? NO he did not. The standard response from this administration is not to answer the specific question but to address something else.Just like everyone agreed Saddam had WMD, so? Did that necessarily imply that everyone thought that the inspectors hadn’t done there jobor needed to stop or other measures were so obsolete that invading him militarily was the only option?
November 17th, 2005 at 6:42 pmThis is a great site — people here remember facts and remind the rest of us, who can’t keep track of all these details.
November 17th, 2005 at 6:53 pm#10, Flyman – I very well remember the uproar over the word gulag by the representative of Amnesty Int’l, but until you posted the reminder, I had forgotten.
Thank you.
It has a new meaning in light of what we have recently learned.
Ryan, as a Brit, I see a complex picture of American spin influencing so many people here (and the trolls in America) but I also see an American culture of interventionism, aggression and militarism. It’s been that way for a long time. This culture seems to pervade all parties (not the black-and-white picture of just reps) and explains a lot of the cyclical nature of your politics on my country and yours. Conflict is culturally best resolved with a ‘damn good fight’ rather than a discussion – the reps and dems differing only in intensity, one of the many factors of the cyclical nature (war tends to peace tends to war etc). With all your experience in life and politics, is there anything you could recommend to break this cycle that would work in your culture to the benefit of us all?
November 17th, 2005 at 6:54 pmI’m not suggesting britain is without it’s problems, it’s not – but it’s good to hear an opinion from someone who chooses to think rather than spout off.
Gary,
Yeah, unfortunately both of our countries share a colonial spirit. It’s quite disappointing.
November 17th, 2005 at 7:08 pmHere is a link for the gulag uproar and even though it is about Gitmo. You have to wonder, well not any more, why the administration was so touchy about the reference. This was only back in June of this year, they had to have had these already going in Eastern Europe and apparently at the old Soviet Union’s prisons. Still the big question is about Ghost detainees. Think about the ramifications a US soldier gets captured he’s stripped of any id and uniform off to someplace in the mountains in asia and we have no recourse, sorry if that seems to simple but John Mcain is sticking to the Army field manual for lots of reasons and parallel reciprocity of treatment has to be considered as a tangent of concern. http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0506/S00238.htm
November 17th, 2005 at 7:10 pmGary,
In many ways I believe radical republicans need to burn themselves out. By having their way for the last 5 years, many more of the ‘reasonable’ folks have realized that the radicals are wrong. I hope this will give us all a common ground to shove the radicals in the corner where they belong.
November 17th, 2005 at 7:10 pmRyan, for how long? I remember Reagan, Bush1 and now 2. Another 4 to 8 years of Dems, back to another 4 years of Jeb or is it Geb? Can this cyclical nature be broken by implementing laws which prevent unconstitutional amendments? I define these as amendments which are partisan.
November 17th, 2005 at 7:17 pmFor any one who cares here’s a HRW link on the Ghost detainees issue.
November 17th, 2005 at 7:32 pmhttp://www.hrw.org/backgrounder/usa/us1004/3.htm#_Toc84652967
Any proof that there is torture going on at these not-so-secret-anymore-prisons-that-WAPO-outed-illegally?
Didn’t think so.
Comment by cynicon implant — November 17, 2005 @ 5:39pm
My irony-meter went through the roof with this statement. Cynicon, here is little explanation for you:
“It is illegal for the government to hold prisoners in such isolation in secret prisons in the United States, which is why the CIA placed them overseas, according to several former and current intelligence officials and other U.S. government officials. Legal experts and intelligence officials said that the CIA’s internment practices also would be considered illegal under the laws of several host countries, where detainees have rights to have a lawyer or to mount a defense against allegations of wrongdoing.
Host countries have signed the U.N. Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, as has the United States. Yet CIA interrogators in the overseas sites are permitted to use the CIA’s approved “Enhanced Interrogation Techniques,” some of which are prohibited by the U.N. convention and by U.S. military law. They include tactics such as “waterboarding,” in which a prisoner is made to believe he or she is drowning.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/01/AR2005110101644_pf.html
Secret prisons are illegal. Holding detainees in secrecy is illegal.
The Washington Post blew the cover on an illegal operation. Doing that is NOT illegal.
November 17th, 2005 at 7:43 pmGary,
None of those republican administration had full control of all branches of government. They’re already burning themselves out after the past 5 years. Bush’s popularity ratings are BELOW that of Nixon during the same stage of his presidency. And Nixon had both the Vietnam war (which had raged for over a decade by that point) and the watergate criminal scandal happening at the same time.
Bush has been able to create the a greater backlash against Iraq in 2 years than it took almost 20 to create in Vietnam.
The current approval ratings of Bush are at 34%, and republican candidates are polling very poorly even in strongly republican districts.
If the republicans continue on their march (the most likely possibility), their party will basically be dead by 2008. If they succeed in packing the court so that supreme court justices undermine the civil society, don’t be surprised to see the first judicial impeachments in american history occur.
Americans in general are really fed up right now. Most signed on to the bush presidency because he promised to secure them against Osama. But they didn’t sign onto his radical social, economic and military agenda. They feel very betrayed, and americans don’t respond well to being betrayed.
Republicans are so drunk with power, they have no idea what kind of backlash will eventually be unleashed…
The last time the country was in a similar situation was the 1930s, and we lurched to the left as a result of the heartless and brainless policy of our conservatives. They had the court entirely packed, and democrats succeeded in ‘coercing’ every single justice to retire. If it happened once, be assured it can happen again.
November 17th, 2005 at 8:03 pmAnd then there are the obvious illegal schemes going on.
Nothing surprises me anymore. I feel sorry for Iraq.
American Businessman Living Overseas Charged With Paying Kickbacks to Get Contracts in Iraq
November 17th, 2005 at 8:39 pmhttp://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=1322087
blinded by faith!!!!
November 17th, 2005 at 11:06 pmCan the BLIND LEAD THE BLIND?
November 18th, 2005 at 10:12 amanswer is NO,NO,NO!
DONT PUUT YOUR TRUUST IN MAD POLITICIANS DESEASE.S CALLED BINDMADNESS!
Can the BLIND LEAD THE BLIND?
November 18th, 2005 at 10:12 amanswer is NO,NO,NO!
DONT PUUT YOUR TRUUST IN MAD POLITICIANS DESEASE.S CALLED BINDMADNESS!
What is wrong with torture? Surely all the big shots in DC who say it is justified when we do it can’t be wrong! They are making the world a safer place. So what if Iraqi Shiites, under our control, torture prisoners in secret camps? They are making the world a safer place too. By inflaming the passions of Sunnis, everything will get better. Don’t you see the plan? Brilliant.
November 18th, 2005 at 11:18 amBLIND FAITH!
November 18th, 2005 at 12:43 pmCan the “BLIND LEAD THE BLIND”?
DONT PUT YOUR TRUST IN MAD FAITH DISEASE,
CALLED” BINDMADNESS,MONEYMADNESS,FREEDOMMADNESS”!
MANY NAMES.
blimey its one heck of a pickle isnt it? cant see iraq ever getting peace at the current way its going.british troops leaving next year? well that leaves a whole year of death and slaughter to go which is terrible.will america leave with us? if they dont then your troops will be in awful peril. but if we leave RIGHT now we face the risk of leaving iraq in political turmoil and certain civil war? its a horrible buisness and we shouldnt have got ourselves into it.
November 19th, 2005 at 5:14 amthem beheadings are disgusting i wouldnt even consider viewing them in the slightest.
November 19th, 2005 at 1:23 pmBomb in a worship? You mean like how we shot white phosphorous into a mosque that had women and children sheltered and incinerated them all? See MizzWrong, you are the terrorist – you and your republican terrorists. Not only did you create AlQueda, but you’ve continually demostrated that they inherited your twisted and immoral values.
Fvck of you retarded religious zealot, or move to Iran where whackos like you are welcome!
November 19th, 2005 at 4:46 pmBomb in a worship? You mean like how we shot white phosphorous into a mosque that had women and children sheltered and incinerated them all?
Comment by Ryan “looks like Michael Moore” Neat
White phsphorous my ass. When you can’t beat ‘em just lie or have a communist judge make law. This is why you people have to be thrown out of the country or locked up. We should have done it after you killed all those men, women and children in Waco, Texas. Unlike your bullshit phosphorus story there’s just a little evidence for that one.
November 20th, 2005 at 9:42 amwhite phosperous can be devestating, like burning vaseline, yea but arnt the stories of it true? im impartial here by the way -i listen and make judgment.
November 20th, 2005 at 1:15 pm