As White House Smears Iraq Critics, Pentagon Readies Plan for Withdrawal
As White House Smears Iraq Critics, Pentagon Readies Plan for Withdrawal
The AP reports that President Bush, speaking from South Korea, is rejecting calls for a troop drawdown in Iraq:
President Bush on Saturday swatted down calls in Congress for a U.S. troop withdrawal from Iraq, saying that American military leaders believe that retreat now would be “a recipe for disaster.”
“So we will fight the terrorists in Iraq and we will stay in the fight until we have achieved the victory our brave troops have fought and bled for,” said Bush, facing mounting criticism from home about his war policy.
But these White House attacks are hypocritical in light of new information that the administration itself is preparing for withdrawal. Here’s what NBC Nightly News reported tonight:
There’s word now that the Pentagon, where planning, after all, is everything, has drawn up a plan to draw down the number of U.S. troops in Iraq… Pentagon and military officials tell NBC news the plan calls for the substantial withdrawal of more than 60,000 American troops from Iraq. The plan was drafted by Generals John Abizaid and George Casey, the top two U.S. commanders of the war. If Iraqi elections are successful in December, and a new parliament seated in January, the withdrawal could begin almost immediately. Military officials say it would be an incremental or phased withdrawal.
So it appears the administration is now trying to have it both ways — attacking those who advocate a troop drawdown while leaking a potential exit strategy. President Bush previously said, “Setting an artificial timetable would… send the wrong message to our troops.” Will Bush put a stop to these “mixed messages” being sent to the troops by his own administration?
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It’s amazing that they could destroy a country, have sham elections, put a puppet government in place, invitie the rebel terrorists in, and then say, well…mission accomplished. That’s what they plan on doing. They ARE SICK!!!!.
November 18th, 2005 at 8:05 pmBush will go back to crawford and say,…”well, we liberated Iraq didn’t we?”
He is so out of touch with reality it’s frightening.
Bush is going to have to announce a withdrawal. He can’t sustain this failing strategy. I wonder how the American people will react when he announces it, though. Will they recognize Bush for the damage he’s done?
November 18th, 2005 at 8:09 pmY’all always seem to be at least a step ahead of these bozos. I don’t know *how* you do it, but I applaud you!
November 18th, 2005 at 8:13 pmWill Bush put a stop to these “mixed messages†being sent to the troops by his own administration?
No, he’s busy planning his next vacation.
November 18th, 2005 at 8:13 pm“American military leaders believe that retreat now would be “a recipe for disaster.—
“The plan was drafted by Generals John Abizaid and George Casey, the top two U.S. commanders of the war.”
Bush is really out there. He needs a nap or something.
I know that he does need to come home from his worldwide vacation. World leaders are now telling him to shut up.
And no, I am not going to do the research for any trolls. Go find it yourself, or not. I don’t care what you know or do not know.
November 18th, 2005 at 8:21 pmRECIPE, What would the President know about a recipe.According to Webster’s Recipe: a formula or procedure for doing or attaining something. Talk about half baked. Disaster has a formula but spending $250 Billion ,wasting 2080 well trained
November 18th, 2005 at 8:24 pmlives, and everything Jeanne said above, post #1, didn’t have one? Oh wait that is a formula for disaster so I guess he would know something about a recipe for how to totally screw things up. How about the artificial time table quote too. He is the presiding King of Paradoxes. Wow I need another beer.
So the Bushinista Regime is going on another Karl Rove orchestrated character assassination against Murtha calling him a cut and run coward, when they in fact are planning to get out of Iraq EVEN SOONER than the six months that Murtha proposed.
November 18th, 2005 at 8:27 pmIt is very transparent why the Bushies are planning this troop withdrawal and that is because of the 2006 elections. The issue of Iraq is weighing down the Republican party and they need to jettison it ASAP.
I’m sure Karl Rove already has many parades and ceremonies planned with Iraqi Invasion Veterans planned for next October.
Will Bush land another airplane at one of these events with a sock stuffed down his codpiece?
What the…
November 18th, 2005 at 8:32 pmhttp://www.bareknucklepolitics.com/forum
Watch the debate live
November 18th, 2005 at 8:33 pmhttp://www.bareknucklepolitics.com/forum
Well, let’s see: The WH is “committed to staying the course” and “planning a withdrawal” both at the same time.
You gotta give ‘em credit. They’ve got all the angles covered. ;->
November 18th, 2005 at 8:39 pmall the while republicans are attacking, they are talking about troop withdrawls as soon as Janurary, yet George does not silence the attack dogs. Kinda making them look foolish if he does this, because of all of the vicious things they are saying today will not be true in two months.
Amazing.
November 18th, 2005 at 8:39 pmHow will * achieve victory against terrorists if the goals aren’t clearly defined? OMG, the Pentagon is starting to sound sane.
November 18th, 2005 at 8:44 pmThe bastards are trying to have it both ways.
November 18th, 2005 at 8:47 pmFirst they present a counter-proposal to Murtha’s and demand a vote.
Then they “leak” a Pentagon plan to reduce the troops in Iraq in 2006.
Then they announce an “ethics investigation” into Murtha.
There is no depth too low for these scumbags.
“It’s amazing that they could destroy a country, have sham elections, put a puppet government in place, invitie the rebel terrorists in, and then say, well…mission accomplished. That’s what they plan on doing. They ARE SICK!!!!” Jeanne
*** Reminds me of Germany after WWII - except the insurgency went on longer. After the insurgents were ordered to turn in their weapons - they were shot on sight if they did not comply - imagine the progs whining about THAT??!!
Good night - I want to leave you with this nugget - NOTHING GWB can do will please you - you can never satisfied. HE has always said when the Iraqis could take over military operations, they would. Understanding English would be of great benefit to the smug few here.
November 18th, 2005 at 8:54 pm#14
So, you are telling us that the Iraqis are magically, all of a sudden ready to take over as the security force of Iraq? Sh!t, why wait? Let’s get the fvck outta there right now.
November 18th, 2005 at 8:57 pmThat nugget MA is nothing but a nut filled turd.
November 18th, 2005 at 8:58 pmAll this talk of pulling troops, whether immediately or within a year, is moot. The U.S. isn’t going anywhere. Bush’s non-spoken gameplan is permanent access to Iraq’s oil and ports, its airfields and military bases, as well as control of much of the area’s fresh water — the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers. So, it’ll be interesting to watch the president’s vision (or lack of) collide with the republican’s re-election rhetoric in the coming months. If republicans are re-elected in numbers to maintain a majority then the current pullout rhetoric may likely go poof and the right wing will climb right back on board with Bush and his bs.
November 18th, 2005 at 9:05 pm“If Iraqi elections are successful in December, and a new parliament seated in January, the withdrawal could begin almost immediately.”
Whatdo they mean by “sucessful elections”? How is success going to be measured? Is there a specific result that qualifies as “successful”?
Whatever the result, the US will surely turn the heat on Iraqis to get a parliament in January. This administration needed an excuse to go in, now they need another one to save face and get out.
They might as well declare victory now and leave. No reason to wait until January.
November 18th, 2005 at 9:07 pmGregor,
Notice mighty aphrodite never answered us on the other thread and now is going to leave?
Here is somthing else interesting about Mighty aphrodite’s posts. When you see ****** it is her husband posting and not her. She was the only one posting for months and then this ******* started and the posts are different in tone an manner.
Weird, why doesn’t he post uner his own screen name. At the very least, it would make it look like there are more conservatives here.
November 18th, 2005 at 9:16 pmdon’t worry: the iraqi’s have 91 battalions ready to go…as long as 150,000 ameriocan troops are there to battle the insurgency, which is made mostly of foreign fighters. the iraqis are only blowing themselves up in jordan.
November 18th, 2005 at 9:40 pmyeh if i was gonna troll id have 5 browsers going at once..
November 18th, 2005 at 9:45 pmDurN Trollsgot bird flu, next thing ya know they’ll be enforcing posse comitatus when bird flu strikes.
\”"”"\ /’>/”"”"/
November 18th, 2005 at 9:47 pm\\\ ///
;;;–/|||\—>
Rep. Murta is very close to pentgon and may have picked up on this plan. Interesting….
November 18th, 2005 at 10:03 pmOliver North,you troll.
November 18th, 2005 at 10:08 pmIf Iraqi elections are successful in December, and a new parliament seated in January, the withdrawal could begin almost immediately.
So if I follow this line of thinking, if elections are successful, the terrorists will go away. Just vanish. Will the Iraqis be ready to take over security of their country by that time?
Or will the War on Terror simply be relocated? We are, after all, fighting them over there so that we don’t have to fight them here. We’ll have a new venue. Iran? Syria? The U.S.?
November 18th, 2005 at 10:39 pmIs a military coup in progress?
November 18th, 2005 at 10:46 pmHey Spudge Boy:
…maybe ‘ol Daddy Aphrodite found his propert… I mean, woman on line— getting KNOWLEDGE DAMMIT!!!!
And so he had to whup her ’cause she wa’nt in the kitchen fixin his sup and bearing him babies even though they got 14……………
And now she’s at a black site, gettin’ “corrected”,
November 18th, 2005 at 11:05 pmand he’s just fillin in so no one of us dumb liberals will know….
:)
Looks like there’s no ssupport for a troop withdrawal amongst democrats
so much for the democratic party
November 18th, 2005 at 11:24 pmRepublicans are such evil fools. They had nothing but dissent against Kosovo, and they couldn’t shut up. Now they smear anyone who responds in the same fashion as they considered both good and patriotic.
Just another example of psychotic hypocrisy of the truly insane republican braindead right.
November 18th, 2005 at 11:25 pmRepublicans are weak on National Security and everything else they touch. This country has hit rock bottom with these jokers in power.
November 18th, 2005 at 11:31 pmthe democrats could have voted against the war - and they didn’t
November 18th, 2005 at 11:34 pmit seems to me that the democratic party is a bunch of gutless swine who had the opportunity to end the war and they chose not to
November 18th, 2005 at 11:37 pmas much as i hate the republicans, i’ve got to hand it to them - they’ve exposed the democrats as the lying frauds they truly are -only 3 demorats voted for troop withdrawal - three - even though 65% of the country is against the war - so much for representative democracy,
whoever the democrats purport to represent it isn’t the people - it’s just some other faction of corporate wealthy war mongers, whilst the dems pay lip service to truth and justice
November 18th, 2005 at 11:45 pmgoodby america, your ship is sinking
November 18th, 2005 at 11:46 pmonly 3 people had the guts to vote to save our troops
no wonder bush sits up in the wh bsing and twisting the story, spinning lies, talking to god
no wonder he just sits there and laughs at us
cause only 3 people had the guts to vote against his war
3 people, that’s it
November 18th, 2005 at 11:48 pmThe Democrats gave Murtha a standing ovation and then they stuck the knife in his back
et tu brute
who did murtha think he was anyway to expect support from his own party
November 18th, 2005 at 11:50 pmwho were they
November 18th, 2005 at 11:56 pmthe 3 who voted for withdrawal
they should be given medals
Your Freedoms is sickening me!
November 18th, 2005 at 11:58 pmHello silence my old friend
i’ve come to talk with you again
about a vision softly speaking
without words that i was seeking
and the visions that were planted in my brain
still remain
within the sounds of silence
we need to pray for this country
cause it’s done for
i’m just glad i talked my son out of joining the marines
and that sob Rep from Texas
November 19th, 2005 at 12:02 amcalling me and anyone a traitor on CSPAN tonight
who doesn’t want their son to go and die in Iraq for lies and greed
It’s not silence, it’s darkness
Hello darkness my old friend
THat’s what we’ve got now
darkness
it descends on america
and on the world
there was one brief shining moment
November 19th, 2005 at 12:05 amand it passed
we’re a third rate power now
November 19th, 2005 at 12:08 amexporting murder for profit
they train our children to be murderers
November 19th, 2005 at 12:10 amand we go shopping at walmart
they train our children to be murderers
and we trade up to a bigger home
they train our children to be murderers
and we take out a 3rd mortgage
He’s a coward! He’s unethical! Next up: Murtha is a child molester!
Boy these guys SUCK.
November 19th, 2005 at 12:13 amand we go to work in the latest fashions
November 19th, 2005 at 12:13 amwhile our children are trained to kill with the latest technology
and we plan a sunday brunch from the latest menus on the chef channel
while our children learn the finer skills of mass murder with high tech weaponry
and we go to church on sunday and ask for forgiveness
while our children learn to use white phorphorus and lie about it
Pragmatist.
November 19th, 2005 at 12:49 amyour freedom bubble is about to get popped in a big way!
Mr. GoI Murtha did NOT suggest withdrawing immediately, he said “praticably” to “re-deploy” the troops to a perimeter where we could help if they needed it. In other words to take the training wheels off and let them try to fly on their own.
To attack Rep Murtha and call him a coward is unforgiveable and only shows what gwb and his croanies have become.
And, this week on GMA they had a report on China that knocked me over. gwb, everytime he stood before us saying he was going to ask for xxbillions for this and xxxbilions for that,etc.,etc.,etc., is borrowing the money from China. Money they have made from us. He has sold our futures to China. God, help us all.
SallyO
November 19th, 2005 at 12:55 amSpudgeBoy,
Yep, I did notice how MIghty pahrodite is just trolling around with nothing of substance to say. What’s the purpose? I still wonder…
November 19th, 2005 at 1:12 amAll I can say is do you want to fight them over there or do you want to fight them over here. Your little snug world no longer exists so get use to it. Ask France and England how secure they feel. I’m afraid your little hippie world no longer exists. Your Vietnam protest days are over. This is REAL. Get used to it!
November 19th, 2005 at 1:13 amGood to see that those who HAVE military experience also have some sense of reality.
November 19th, 2005 at 1:39 amHmmm, I think I heard something about this before. Back in July.
Secret Plan To Quit Iraq
Get a grip people.
“We therefore continually produce papers outlining possible options. This is prudent planning.”
November 19th, 2005 at 1:42 amI said this a while back and still stand by it:
“Chialabi is the next Saddam. W’s exit plan is to install him, announce the war in Iraq as a triumph and then pull the troops home. This trip is for planning strategy up to and after the “electionâ€. Expect immense fraud on December 15th (perhaps Diebold will get a no-bid contract to supply the machines). In about three years Chialabi will be forced by Islamic fundamentalists to take the same career move as did the Shah of Iran in 1979.
Comment by WaltTheMan — November 10, 2005 @ 10:34 am”
I am the prophet!
November 19th, 2005 at 1:48 amWe must stay the course and not listen to traitorous men like Murtha.
November 19th, 2005 at 2:02 amMurtha is not guilty of treason, just as the founding fathers are not. He has taken a stance against tyranny and injustice. He stands for the people of this nation.
November 19th, 2005 at 2:12 amWhite House smears Iraq critics while Pentagon plans withdrawl
Next up: Bush Administration attacks Pentagon while claiming to “support the troops.”
November 19th, 2005 at 3:16 amPeople need to realize the White House is the biggest scandal in its history. This is obviously a giant conspiracy that scared as heck because they know the truth is coming out soon. They are frightened because they are going down in flames. They will attack everything and everyone right now. Yes we lied about the WMDs, yes we invaded Iraq for the oil money, yes Chalabi’s trip was how to make sure the elections go smooth for the neocon’s interests.
November 19th, 2005 at 5:42 amI would’ve like to have seen Mr. Murtha make his statements after the Dec 15 elections. I think it would give everyone cover to vote or suggest troop stand downs.
By coming out Thursday Mr. Murtha allowed his critics to take the offensive.
He was the right messenger, IMHO delivered a bit too early.
richb
November 19th, 2005 at 7:02 amMurtha and Sheehan are both heros. They have the courage to speak out and challenge a failed administration. The war was wrong be it deceptive or not. It has produced nothing positive to this point and many predict it will end in collapse much like south Viet Nam once the US leaves. It will be interesting to see how Bush and Cheney will answer history rather than their critics when it reviels their lack of leadership and the folley of neocon ideology that took the country to the edge. I’m sure it will be a stain on the GOP and significant history rewritting will occur.
November 19th, 2005 at 7:49 amSaturday morning, with ample opportunity to do so, CNN has yet to show the incident in the House last night, prefering to air viewer emails instead.
This country is incapable of looking past the soundbite; unless a talking head says it, it never happened.
November 19th, 2005 at 8:05 amAs White House smears Iraq critics, Pentagon read
One way to cover all your bases and never be wrong is to take both sides of an issue. With one hand (fist), slam your opponents for calling for a “premature” withdrawal of troops from Iraq, labeling them “cut-and-run” cowards who are surrending to …
November 19th, 2005 at 8:07 amWhat happened in the House last night was not news but for the huge waste of time. Democrats were essentially dared to vote for an immediate withdrawal. Republicans got to do all their grand standing while Democrats went home and waited for the circus to end. There were only 6 democrats present. The rest refused to be part of the folly.
Meanwhile, work that needs to be done and could have been last night, has been put on the ever approaching back burner of the holidays.
They should all be forced to get to work and skip the holidays.
November 19th, 2005 at 9:08 amWe must stay the course and not listen to traitorous men like Murtha.
Comment by Dissent is Treason
Nobody did. That’s why the vote was 403-3. We won’t be hearing from Murtha again.
November 19th, 2005 at 9:40 amThe Shrub in Korea before a very, very captive audience stated that we would stay the course until the mission is accomplished.
Bush, you said that over two years ago.
He has majors, colonels and generals sending dispatches say that pulling out now would be a disaster while the pentagon is planning for a pull out for the 2006 elections.
The dispatches are correct, the war is a disaster.
November 19th, 2005 at 9:49 amWhy can’t we get ourselves a political operative from the the netroots to run our rapid response? Look how long it took TP to show that Rove and BushCo are talking out of both sides of their mouths? Hopfully Russert will ask the GOP representitive whcih side is actually reality vis-avis Iraq. I mean which one is it?
November 19th, 2005 at 10:06 amCan you believe this, the democrates gives bush and excuse to get out of Iraq. Now he can blame the Dems for forceing us out, all the while kicking and screaming for doing what he said he would never do. Another one of those the devil made me do it.
November 19th, 2005 at 11:17 amThose of you calling out the Democrats for not supporting the Republican counterfeit withdrawal bill are not well informed. The nonbinding resolution was introduced Rep. Duncan-R of CA. It did not call for any transition period and had other obvious problems. The bill was designed to fail and to make it look like to the public that the Dems did not support Murtha. I am no fanboy of the Dems but this situation was just dirty Republican politics.
November 19th, 2005 at 11:20 amThis administartion and their congressional hacks do nothing without the next election in mind. Dems are taking away their election year thunder. Next year, we’d be pulling out of Iraq anyway, but it was a secret for the election year. We would’ve pulled out 6 months ago if this were an election yaer. Now we know the truth, a few hundred american soldiers had to die for election year timing. I think they truly believe the military is there to die for their re-election.
November 19th, 2005 at 11:27 amPerfect! We liberate a country and plant democracy in a region with a thousand year history of brutal tribalism and the lefty line is “we don’t like wars with bullets, let’s have a war against WalMart and Red Lobster”?????? I can’t imagine why people are fleeing the democratic party……..
November 19th, 2005 at 11:46 amThe response to any punk who dares question the patriotism or masculinity of the Democratic Party. Think about the following list for a moment, and distribute as far and wide as possible.
Democrats:
* Richard Gephardt: Air National Guard, 1965-71.
* David Bonior: Staff Sgt., Air Force 1968-72.
* Tom Daschle: 1st Lt., Air Force SAC 1969-72.
* Al Gore: enlisted Aug. 1969; sent to Vietnam Jan. 1971 as an army journalist in 20th Engineer Brigade.
* Bob Kerrey: Lt. j.g. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor, Vietnam.
* Daniel Inouye: Army 1943-47; Medal of Honor, WWII.
* John Kerry: Lt., Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat V,Purple Hearts.
* Charles Rangel: Staff Sgt., Army 1948-52; Bronze Star, Korea.
* Max Cleland: Captain, Army 1965-68; Silver Star & Bronze Star, Vietnam.
* Ted Kennedy: Army, 1951-53.
* Tom Harkin: Lt., Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve, 1968-74.
* Jack Reed: Army Ranger, 1971-1979; Captain, Army Reserve 1979-91.
* Fritz Hollings: Army officer in WWII; Bronze Star and seven
campaign ribbons.
* Leonard Boswell: Lt. Col., Army 1956-76; Vietnam, DFCs, Bronze
Stars, and Soldier’s Medal.
* Pete Peterson: Air Force Captain, POW. Purple Heart, Silver Star
and Legion of Merit.
* Mike Thompson: Staff sergeant, 173rd Airborne, Purple Heart.
* Bill McBride: Candidate for Fla. Governor. Marine in Vietnam; Bronze
Star
with Combat V.
* Gray Davis: Army Captain in Vietnam, Bronze Star.
* Pete Stark: Air Force 1955-57
* Chuck Robb: Vietnam
* Howell Heflin: Silver Star
* George McGovern: Silver Star & DFC during WWII.
* Bill Clinton: Did not serve. Student deferments. Entered draft but
received #311.
* Jimmy Carter: Seven years in the Navy.
* Walter Mondale: Army 1951-1953
* John Glenn: WWII and Korea; six DFCs and Air Medal with 18
Clusters.
* Tom Lantos: Served in Hungarian underground in WWII. Saved by Raoul
Wallenberg.
Republicans — and these are the guys sending people to war:
November 19th, 2005 at 12:01 pm* Dick Cheney: did not serve. Several deferments, the last by marriage.
* Dennis Hastert: did not serve.
* Tom Delay: did not serve.
* Roy Blunt: did not serve.
* Bill Frist: did not serve.
* Mitch McConnell: did not serve.
* Rick Santorum: did not serve.
* Trent Lott: did not serve.
* John Ashcroft: did not serve. Seven deferments to teach business.
* Jeb Bush: did not serve.
* Karl Rove: did not serve.
* Saxby Chambliss: did not serve. “Bad knee.” The man who attacked
Max
Cleland’s patriotism.
* Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve.
* Vin Weber: did not serve.
* Richard Perle: did not serve.
* Douglas Feith: did not serve.
* Eliot Abrams: did not serve.
* Richard Shelby: did not serve.
* Jon! Kyl: did not serve.
* Tim Hutchison: did not serve.
* Christopher Cox: did not serve.
* Newt Gingrich: did not serve.
* Don Rumsfeld: served in Navy (1954-57) as flight instructor.
* George W. Bush: failed to complete his six-year National Guard; got
assigned to Alabama so he could campaign for family friend running
for U.S. Senate; failed to show up for required medical exam,
disappeared
from duty.
* Ronald Reagan: due to poor eyesight, served in a non-combat role
making movies.
* B-1 Bob Dornan: Consciously enlisted after fighting was over in
Korea.
* Phil Gramm: did not serve.
* John McCain: Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart
and Distinguished Flying Cross.
* Dana Rohrabacher: did not serve.
* John M. McHugh: did not serve.
* JC Watts: did not serve.
* Jack Kemp: did not serve. “Knee problem,” although continued
in NFL
for 8 years.
* Dan Quayle: Journalism unit of the Indiana National Guard.
* Rudy Giuliani: did not serve.
* George Pataki: did not serve.
* Spencer Abraham: did not serve.
* John Engler: did not serve.
* Lindsey Graham: National Guard lawyer.
* Arnold Schwarzenegger: AWOL from Austrian army base.
Pundits & Preachers
* Sean Hannity: did not serve.
* Rush Limbaugh: did not serve (4-F with a ‘pilonidal cyst.’)
* Bill O’Reilly: did not serve.
* Michael Savage: did not serve.
* George Will: did not serve.
* Chris Matthews: did not serve.
* Paul Gigot: did not serve.
* Bill Bennett: did not serve.
* Pat Buchanan: did not serve.
* John Wayne: did not serve.
* Bill Kristol: did not serve.
* Kenneth Starr: did not serve.
* Antonin Scalia: did not serve.
* Clarence Thomas: did not serve.
* Ralph Reed: did not serve.
* Michael Medved: did not serve.
* Charlie Daniels: did not serve.
#69 Who’s fleeing, Turk? Someone you know personlly…or did you just make that up?
PS: If this is your idea of “liberating” people and “planting democracy,” I think you’ve already forfeited the debate.
November 19th, 2005 at 12:33 pmThere is only one solution to America’s problems.
Impeach Bush and Cheney.
They lie constantly and you have to spend all your free time trying to figure out what their real agenda of the day is.
Bushie’s poll numbers prove that American’s want him out of office.
Contact your Senators and Representatives and demand impeachment hearings.
Site this latest smear campaign against Murtha which proves that Bushie hates those who fight for America.
November 19th, 2005 at 1:22 pm#70,
Your awesome. Seems like having been there has a certain effect on people. Did Ted Nugent serve?
November 19th, 2005 at 1:28 pmWhen a President takes the Oath of Office doesn’t he swear to serve all American People?
Bushie clearly hates Democrats and publically announces this daily.
He also publically announces that he opposes (does not serve) Democrats.
Didn’t he swear on a bible to serve All American People?
Not only has he lied to the American People, he has lied to his God.
Impeach now!
November 19th, 2005 at 1:35 pm#70
Trolls: did not serve.
November 19th, 2005 at 1:40 pmThink Prgoress where is the thread about the debates last night? Comeon already, the Democrats freaking walking all ove the Republicans.
The Republicans kept trying to make it seem like the House was debating Rep Murtha’s resolution. Until finally the chair stood up and said “Mr. Speaker, are we debating the Hunter resolution or the Murtha resolution?†First the speaker replied back with “We are debating resolution 571.†the democratic chair then asked “Is resolution 571 Mr Hunters resolution or is it Mr Murtha’s resolution?†to which the Speaker replied “Mr Hunter’sâ€
You see the republicans want the world to think that Mr Murtha wants to “cut and run†Rep Murtha had to repeat himself a couple of times that his resolution did not call for imediate withdrawl and that it in fact called for redeployment.
It was Rep Hunter that put forth a vote on his own resolution to “cut and runâ€
So, the republicans put forth a resolution to “cut and run†in which they planned to vote down their own resolution making everybody think that they had just voted down Rep Murtha’s resolution.
The republicans thought that all of the democrats would vote for “cut and runâ€
To their shock, the democrats voted it down also.
So, any republican that says that democrats wnat to “cut and run†have just lost that talking point.
But, on the flip side watch for this to come from the republicans “Well, the democrats voted to keep our troops in Iraqâ€
November 19th, 2005 at 1:43 pmLast night was the first time I’ve ever watched C-Span and been completely giddy. I’m so proud of all the noise made on the floor of the House. The Republicans were surprised they couldn’t get things under control. Jean Schmidt was lucky she wasn’t attacked were she stood. Stupid bitch. Dems please stay awake!
November 19th, 2005 at 1:56 pmThank goodness someone pointed out that the House last night was debating a ridiculous, political-ploy Republican “resolution,” not the plan advanced by Jack Murtha who served 37 years in the Marines and visits our wounded troops every week. I will be very surprised if this is the last we hear from Murtha. My question, though, is how the debate shifted from his resolution to “Mr. Hunter’s” — did the House debate Murtha’s plan at all? What happened to it?
November 19th, 2005 at 2:07 pmSchmidt has NO brains at all.
She only do things she’s been told to do. Thats why Rove/Bush loves her. No brain no pain for her.
Come on now, do any of you really thinks that this attack doesnt wear the Rove trademark? It was the same thing with the Hackett swift-boating in September with The Mini Mayor upset. The repubs didn’t invest in Schmidt for her brain, they invested in loyalty, Rove has the brain.
As a newcommer to the house she’s an expandable toy. They know she wont survive the 06 election and they wont put any more money in her next campaign if she is running against a strong dem. I even doubt they recomment here to run at all. She will be crushed in 06 if she run and the repubs will just watch it happen.
The thing is just to reveil her on national news. Put her up against some difficult questions and make her/them suffer. The polls will show immidiate results of this unintelligent Rove campaign. With Rove tied to Fitz it should now be fire at will on Schmidt, Taft, DeLay and all the rest. He can’t defend them all. I’m positive that Fitz got a surprice for Rove at the end of the show, so keep Rove busy. Really busy.
Fire at will friends, fire at will.
November 19th, 2005 at 2:14 pmdear troops, out goverment decided to have you stay and die, while they take a break for thanksgiving. This is not the will of the MAJORITY, sorry.
November 19th, 2005 at 2:20 pmVery good Markus. Whats funny is the stupid neocon (Schmidt) doesn’t even know she’s being used.
November 19th, 2005 at 2:21 pm#78
deminnc,
Rep Murtha’s resolution was never put to debate, let alone vote.
As Zookeeper pointed out, I was glued to my TV last night watching C-Span.
It was incredibly bad for the Republicans. They tried to come in and make it seem like they were voting down a “cut and run” resolution being put forth by Rep. Murtha, when in fact, it was a “cut and run” resolution put forth by Rep Hunter (R).
The democrats yeilded their entire 30 minutes to Rep Murtha who did not back down from his resolve of tellin gthe truth and bringing it to the American people.
Republicans fubble through 30 minutes of short speeches that became pretty rediculous after it was made clear that they were intentionally putting forth a “cut and run” resolution, with the intention of voting it down to make the democrats look bad.
But, the dems had the last laugh.
November 19th, 2005 at 2:33 pmThe Republicans sounded like wind up dolls, same speech over & over & over……………………
November 19th, 2005 at 2:54 pmMaybe now the American People will finally get what
they want. Accountability, a serious discussion about
winding down, and let the Iraqi’s have what they
want, US out of Iraq.
Hey SpudgeBoy, this am CNN reported the trickery the pugs tried to use. They presented it as a blow to the pugs. It was short and simple but they made it clear that the pugs were acting a fool.
I was surprised to see in on CNN and like I said it was short but CNN landed a clean jab.
November 19th, 2005 at 3:34 pmDid you also see the press conference that was held by the democrats on the Inetllegence Comittee? WOw, they ripped the White House for saying that the Senate gets the same intellegence as the White House. They said even the members of the Intellengence Comitte don’t get the same info as the White House.
Yesterday will go down in the history books.
November 19th, 2005 at 3:49 pm[…] On ThinkProgress we read the following. Link to the article for the full story. As White House Smears Iraq Critics, Pentagon Readies Plan for Withdrawal [link] […]
November 19th, 2005 at 4:08 pmI didn’t see it SpudgeBoy but I read about it.
Its great to see that we are taking back America.
No holds barred.
Impeach Bush now!
November 19th, 2005 at 4:32 pmWhere’s NeD with is “we’re gonna hit you back and hit you back hard” bullsh!t? From where I sit, the republicans have been bitch slapped all week.
I am trying to ge tthe trnscript for both the debate and the press conference. The truth was held up yesterday for everybody to see. These facts will go into the history books, not the stupid talking points the republicans have been trying to pass off all this time.
November 19th, 2005 at 4:38 pm#73 Ted Nugent did not serve.
November 19th, 2005 at 4:49 pmLet’s get this in order — Murtha announces a call to bring the troops home as soon as it is “practicable.” The war is lost, and lives are being lost hopelessly.
November 19th, 2005 at 4:56 pmThe Republicans take his words, twist them into something else, and incite chaos on the House floor.
Meanwhile, the boy King is off in Mongolia continuing to repeat his slogan of “stay the course,” and talking to the Chinese leaders about religion (appealing to the Falwell/Robertson crowd). Also meanwhile, his two generals have uncovered their own plan for phasing down the troops in Iraq, contingent on the “election” results in December.
And the Reps claim that the Dems are disorganized!?
They’re in charge and this is what they do!
There are 12 Veterans who have agreed to run for current republican seats in congress. If democrats are so ‘anti-military’, why are so many veterans of present and past wars lining up to run for the party? And why are virtually no republican candidates veterans?
That’s an easy one, republicans are chickenhawks who send soldiers to war poorly trained, poorly equiped, against their signup agreements, and then have the balls to cut their benefits when they come back home!
Republicans are completely anti-military, and any claim to the contrary is just whacko fascist lunacy!
November 19th, 2005 at 5:10 pmAnd by agreed to run, let me clarify, there are 12 veterans who agreed to run AS DEMOCRATS to unseat republican CHICKENHAWKS in congress!
November 19th, 2005 at 5:11 pmThe pentagon knows at this point our men and women our getting picked off 1 by 1. They also know that their equipment is worn out our troops our worn out. They are hoping these elections go well and so do we. They want to come home.
November 19th, 2005 at 5:36 pmMay they all win!
November 19th, 2005 at 5:37 pmPractically speaking, are there enough seats up for reelection in the house and senate for the Dems to actually gain control of one or both? The last I heard, it was not possible. Would this info be available on the DCCC site?
November 19th, 2005 at 5:42 pmMarie,
November 19th, 2005 at 6:00 pmFrom the following URL:
http://www.senate.gov/ general/ contact_information/ senators_cfm.cfm?Class=1
It seems that 15 Repugs are up for re-election in 2006. With 55 in place now, a Democratic senate majority is a possibility. The house, of course, is wide open.
Marie,
Yes it’s possible. What makes it difficult is the series of gerrymandering that republicans have done in states like Ohio and Texas. Those states are carved up like turkeys to ensure that republican minorities get the majority of seats disproportionate to their populations. It’s how whackos like Schmidt stay in office (presuming diebold wasn’t responsible for her miracle victory).
What’s important to remember is that because there are only 2 senators per state gerrymandering is not really the problem. This is on reason that the senate tends to be ‘close’ in the number of seats for each party.
Folks like DeWine in Ohio and Santorum in Penn. are likely goners unless Diebold is used to pull off yet another poll defying ‘miracle’. Clearly republicans believe in religious fantasy miracles to continue to ignore and explain away all of the mysterious events in Ohio…
November 19th, 2005 at 6:17 pmHastert is a goner too. I think that will be a huge blow to pugs.
November 19th, 2005 at 6:21 pmThanks, Walt.
November 19th, 2005 at 6:25 pmRyan, there is no way Santorum can win unless the mchines are rigged. Ohio repugs are in trouble, but we already know that their elections are “fixed.”
November 19th, 2005 at 6:30 pmRep. Hastert is in some trouble in Illinois, but Susan, you are more sure than I am that he won’t be reelected.
If the Dems can carry off all the elections, plus keep their own seats, then we can make progress.
This is one election where the Democrats MUST get out the vote.
Remember Marie, Hastert couldn’t even get REAL supporters to counter Cindy Sheehan when she was in town. He had to bus them in (and pay them) from other areas of the state.
Hasterts statement about Murtha (calling him a coward) put the final nail in his political coffin. Plus he’s a republican, no normal person in Illinois is going to vote Republican, I guarantee it.
November 19th, 2005 at 7:02 pm#86.
November 19th, 2005 at 8:47 pmWhite man speak with fork tongue,yes?
Here is what we have lowered ourselves to: http://abcnews.go.com/ WNT/ Investigation/ story?id=1322866&page=1.
Sad. The more anyone tries to justify and downplay/cover this kind of horrible stuff up, the worse it will be for them in the long run. And, to make matters worse, it hasn’t worked. OBL is laughing and loving it as it just fuels his recruiting effort.
I still can’t get over the Republican comment downplaying our torture of anyone we think might be a terrorist. We have lost the moral high ground over this. We now know that torture was not what was needed to stop 9/11 - we had all the pieces without torture and we just needed to put them together. All the torture hasn’t helped capture bin Ladin after 9/11 either. All our torture in our prisons in Iraq, Cuba and Eastern Europe has done is bring us down towards the same level as the terrorists, fuel al Qaeda recruiting, and endanger captured Americans.
November 19th, 2005 at 8:56 pmBush has no intention of withdrawing from Iraq. Ever. There are now more than a dozen permanent U.S. military bases in Iraq. What do you think they fought the war for anyway?
November 19th, 2005 at 10:25 pmSome observations:
1. As #24 NoWar 0bserved, Murtha is close to the Pentagon and his statement comes close to the disclosed Pentagon plans for a phased withdrawal from Iraq. Therefore we can assume thet Murtha is a stalking horse for the Pentagon. The military, particularly the army and the national guard, is being destroyed by the Iraq fiasco, and they want out. But Murtha really said “OUT NOW.”
2. As #33 GOI said, the Dem reps are gutless swine who are not reoresenting their constituents (73 per cent of Dems want out of Iraq now). As Jeremy Scahill writes: None of the horrors playing out in Iraq today would be possible without the Democratic Party….Herein lies the real political crisis in this country: the Democrats are not an opposition party, nor are they an antiwar party — never were. . . The bloody scandal of the Iraq occupation has opened a rare and clear window into the truth about this country: there is one party represented in Washington — one that supports preemptive war and regime change. . . Like the Bush White House, the Democrats have lost their credibility. They are undeserving of the blank check of “Anybody But Bush” and should never be allowed to cash it again. Rep. Rahm Emanuel, who heads up the House Democrats election campaign, criticized Murtha’s call for immediate withdrawal, saying, “At the right time, we will have a position.” It is statements like that that should result in Emanuel and his colleagues losing theirs. People are dying every day for nothing.
http://www.antiwar.com/ orig/ jscahill.php?articleid=8084
3. As #76 Spudgeboy implies, the best course in Iraq is cut and run, for the reasons stated by General William Odom.
http://www.antiwar.com/orig/odom.php?articleid=7487
What to do? Two things:
1. Put MORE pressure on Dem reps to support their constituents, by sending them mail and getting your friends to do likewise. Go to: http://www.congress.org/congressorg/home/.htm
2. In whatever way you can, influence serving military members to do whatever they can to inhibit the war machine. This is what worked in Vietnam.
“IT IS TIME TO BRING THEM HOME” — Rep. John Murtha. While Murtha may have tried later to re-interpret his words as ‘redeploy’ and ‘not cut and run’ what he really said was “IT IS TIME TO BRING THEM HOME” which to me means “OUT NOW.”
November 19th, 2005 at 11:19 pmTHE HARRIS POLL
President Bush’s Job Rating Falls Again, to 34 Percent Positive
Cabinet members, congressional leaders and both parties in Congress also down five or more points since August
***
Democrats Fail to Benefit from Republican Problems
One surprising finding is that the Democrats have not been able to capitalize on the decline of the president and other Republican leaders’ ratings. The positive rating of the Democrats in Congress has continued to fall and currently stands at only 25 percent, two points lower than the also declining rating for Republicans in Congress.
November 19th, 2005 at 11:55 pmhttp://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID=613
Wait til next week, the Muthra numbers have not kicked in.
November 20th, 2005 at 1:38 am2. In whatever way you can, influence serving military members to do whatever they can to inhibit the war machine. This is what worked in Vietnam.
Comment by Don
So, you filthy ratbastardsonofabitch, you are soliciting American citizens and servicemen to sabotage the war effort. It did work in Vietnam and that’s why 2 million Vietnamese and Cambodians died in the communist purges after the war and we spent billions more fighting the cold war.
I think it’s safe to say you are an active subversive and traitor and should spend the next twenty years in Ft. Leavenworth federal pen. I don’t think it’s safe to say what I would do if I could get my hands on you.
November 21st, 2005 at 2:23 pmBush has no intention of withdrawing from Iraq. Ever. There are now more than a dozen permanent U.S. military bases in Iraq. What do you think they fought the war for anyway?
Comment by purvis ames
I know the answer to that. Do you?
November 21st, 2005 at 2:25 pmA Phone Call To The Federal Reserve Bank in San Francisco
persoonlijk | Other | 24 November 2005 | 17:44:52
The following is a conversation with Mr. Ron Supinski of the Public Information Department of the San Francisco Federal Reserve Bank. This is an account of that conversation.
CALLER - Mr. Supinski, does my country own the Federal Reserve System?
MR. SUPINSKI - We are an agency of the government.
CALLER - That’s not my question. Is it owned by my country?
MR. SUPINSKI - It is an agency of the government created by congress.
CALLER - Is the Federal Reserve a Corporation?
MR. SUPINSKI - Yes
CALLER - Does my government own any of the stock in the Federal Reserve?
MR. SUPINSKI - No, it is owned by the member banks.
CALLER - Are the member banks private corporations?
MR. SUPINSKI - Yes
CALLER - Are Federal Reserve Notes backed by anything?
MR. SUPINSKI-Yes, by the assets of the Federal Reserve but, primarily by the power of congress to lay tax on the people.
CALLER - Did you say, by the power to collect taxes is what backs Federal Reserve Notes?
MR. SUPINSKI - Yes
CALLER - What are the total assets of the Federal Reserve?
MR. SUPINSKI - The San Francisco Bank has $36 Billion in assets.
CALLER - What are these assets composed of?
MR. SUPINSKI - Gold, the Federal Reserve Bank itself and government securities.
CALLER - What value does the Federal Reserve Bank carry gold per oz. on their books?
MR. SUPINSKI - I don’t have that information but the San Francisco Bank has $1.6 billion in gold.
CALLER - Are you saying the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco has $1.6 billion in gold, the bank itself and the balance of the assets is government securities?
MR. SUPINSKI - Yes.
CALLER - Where does the Federal Reserve get Federal Reserve Notes from?
MR. SUPINSKI - They are authorized by the Treasury.
CALLER - How much does the Federal Reserve pay for a $10 Federal Reserve Note?
MR. SUPINSKI - Fifty to seventy cents.
CALLER - How much do they pay for a $100.00 Federal Reserve Note?
MR. SUPINSKI - The same fifty to seventy cents.
CALLER - To pay only fifty cents for a $100.00 is a tremendous gain, isn’t it?
MR. SUPINSKI - Yes
CALLER - According to the US Treasury, the Federal Reserve pays $20.60 per 1,000 denomination or a little over two cents for a $100.00 bill, is that correct?
MR. SUPINSKI - That is probably close.
CALLER - Doesn’t the Federal Reserve use the Federal Reserve Notes that cost about two cents each to purchase US Bonds from the government?
MR. SUPINSKI - Yes, but there is more to it than that.
CALLER - Basically, that is what happens?
MR. SUPINSKI - Yes, basically you are correct.
CALLER - How many Federal Reserve Notes are in circulation?
MR. SUPINSKI - $263 billion and we can only account for a small percentage.
CALLER - Where did they go?
MR. SUPINSKI - Peoples mattress, buried in their back yards and illegal drug money.
CALLER - Since the debt is payable in Federal Reserve Notes, how can the $4 trillion national debt be paid-off with the total Federal Reserve Notes in circulation?
MR. SUPINSKI - I don’t know.
CALLER - If the Federal Government would collect every Federal Reserve Note in circulation would it be mathematically possible to pay the $4 trillion national debt?
MR. SUPINSKI - No
CALLER - Am I correct when I say, $1 deposited in a member bank $8 can be lent out through Fractional Reserve Policy?
MR. SUPINSKI - About $7.
CALLER - Correct me if I am wrong but, $7 of additional Federal Reserve Notes were never put in circulation. But, for lack of better words were “created out of thin air ” in the form of credits and the two cents per denomination were not paid either. In other words, the Federal Reserve Notes were not physically printed but, in reality were created by a journal entry and lent at interest. Is that correct?
MR. SUPINSKI - Yes
CALLER - Is that the reason there are only $263 billion Federal Reserve Notes in circulation?
MR. SUPINSKI - That is part of the reason.
CALLER - Am I mistaking that when the Federal Reserve Act was passed (on Christmas Eve) in 1913, it transferred the power to coin and issue our nation’s money and to regulate the value thereof from Congress to a Private corporation. And my country now borrows what should be our own money from the Federal Reserve (a private corporation) plus interest. Is that correct and the debt can never be paid off under the current money system of country?
MR. SUPINSKI - Basically, yes.
CALLER - I smell a rat, do you?
MR. SUPINSKI - I am sorry, I can’t answer that, I work here.
CALLER - Has the Federal Reserve ever been independently audited?
MR. SUPINSKI - We are audited.
CALLER - Why is there a current House Resolution 1486 calling for a complete audit of the Federal Reserve by the GAO and why is the Federal Reserve resisting?
MR. SUPINSKI - I don’t know.
CALLER - Does the Federal Reserve regulate the value of Federal Reserve Notes and interest rates?
MR. SUPINSKI - Yes
CALLER - Explain how the Federal Reserve System can be Constitutional if, only the Congress of the US, which comprises of the Senate and the House of representatives has the power to coin and issue our money supply and regulate the value thereof? [Article 1 Section 1 and Section 8] Nowhere, in the Constitution does it give Congress the power or authority to transfer any powers granted under the Constitution to a private corporation or, does it?
MR. SUPINSKI - I am not an expert on constitutional law. I can refer you to our legal department.
CALLER - I can tell you I have read the Constitution. It does NOT provide that any power granted can be transferred to a private corporation. Doesn’t it specifically state, all other powers not granted are reserved to the States and to the citizens? Does that mean to a private corporation?
MR. SUPINSKI - I don’t think so, but we were created by Congress.
CALLER - Would you agree it is our country and it should be our money as provided by our Constitution?
MR. SUPINSKI - I understand what you are saying.
CALLER - Why should we borrow our own money from a private consortium of bankers? Isn’t this why we had a revolution, created a separate sovereign nation and a Bill of Rights?
MR. SUPINSKI - (Declined to answer).
CALLER - Has the Federal Reserve ever been declared constitutional by the Supreme Court?
MR. SUPINSKI - I believe there has been court cases on the matter.
/www.freedomfinancialconsultants.com/declaration.htm
CALLER - Have there been Supreme Court Cases?
MR. SUPINSKI - I think so, but I am not sure.
CALLER - Didn’t the Supreme Court declare unanimously in A.L.A. Schechter Poultry Corp. vs. US and Carter vs. Carter Coal Co. the corporative-state arrangement an unconstitutional delegation of legislative power? [”The power conferred is the power to regulate. This is legislative delegation in its most obnoxious form; for it is not even delegation to an official or an official body, presumptively disinterested, but to private persons.” Carter vs. Carter Coal Co…]
MR. SUPINSKI - I don’t know, I can refer you to our legal department.
CALLER - Isn’t the current money system a house of cards that must fall because, the debt can mathematically never be paid-off?
MR. SUPINSKI - It appears that way. I can tell you have been looking into this matter and are very knowledgeable. However, we do have a solution.
CALLER - What is the solution?
MR. SUPINSKI - The Debit Card.
CALLER - Do you mean under the EFT Act (Electronic Funds Transfer)? Isn’t that very frightening, when one considers the capabilities of computers? It would provide the government and all it’s agencies, including the Federal Reserve such information as: You went to the gas station @ 2:30 and bought $20.00 of unleaded gas @ $3.41 per gallon and then you went to the grocery store @ 2:58 and bought bread, lunch meat and milk for $12.32 and then went to the drug store @ 3:30 and bought cold medicine for $5.62. In other words, they would know where we go, when we went, how much we paid, how much the merchant paid and how much profit he made. Under the EFT they will literally know everything about us. Isn’t that kind of scary?
MR. SUPINSKI - Yes, it makes you wonder.
CALLER - I smell a GIANT RAT that has overthrown my constitution. Aren’t we paying tribute in the form of income taxes to a consortium of private bankers?
MR. SUPINSKI - I can’t call it tribute, it is interest.
CALLER - Haven’t all elected officials taken an oath of office to preserve and defend the Constitution from enemies both foreign and domestic? Isn’t the Federal Reserve a domestic enemy?
MR. SUPINSKI - I can’t say that.
CALLER - Our elected officials and members of the Federal Reserve are guilty of aiding and abetting the overthrowing of my Constitution and that is treason. Isn’t the punishment of treason death?
MR. SUPINSKI - I believe so.
CALLER - Thank you for your time and information and if I may say so, I think you should take the necessary steps to protect you and your family and withdraw your money from the banks before the collapse, I am.
MR. SUPINSKI - It doesn’t look good.
CALLER - May God have mercy on the souls who are behind this unconstitutional and criminal act called the Federal Reserve. When the ALMIGHTY MASS awakens to this giant hoax, they will not take it with a grain of salt. It has been a pleasure talking to you and I thank you for your time. I hope you will take my advice before it does collapse.
MR. SUPINSKI - Unfortunately, it does not look good.
CALLER - Have a good day and thanks for your time.
MR. SUPINSKI - Thanks for calling.
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