VIDEO: Schmidt’s Shame
VIDEO: Schmidt’s Shame
Rep. Jean Schmidt (R-OH) today on the House floor, speaking about Rep. John Murtha (D-PA), a decorated former Marine:
Yesterday I stood at Arlington National Cemetery attending the funeral of a young marine in my district. He believed in what we were doing is the right thing and had the courage to lay his life on the line to do it. A few minutes ago I received a call from Colonel Danny Bubp, Ohio Representative from the 88th district in the House of Representatives. He asked me to send Congress a message: Stay the course. He also asked me to send Congressman Murtha a message, that cowards cut and run, Marines never do. Danny and the rest of America and the world want the assurance from this body – that we will see this through.
Schmidt was later forced to return to the House floor and have her remarks stricken from the record. Despite having said the purpose of her “coward” statement was to “send Congressman Murtha a message,” Schmidt claimed:
Mr. Speaker, my remarks were not directed to any member of the House and I did not intend to suggest they applied to any member, most especially the distinguished gentleman from Pennsylvania.
Marines don't decide if we fight wars. Neither does Schmidt.
November 18th, 2005 at 6:46 pmWhat a flaming B*TCH. Quite the flattering picture, too. Good job, TP!
November 18th, 2005 at 6:46 pmThat's it we're pissed..........Filibuster Alito Now
If they want to play the eye for an eye game then oblige them.
To speak out is PATRIOTIC to follow blindly is MORONIC!
http://www.illmethinks.com
g
November 18th, 2005 at 6:47 pmbring them down....it's time
http://www.illmethinks.com
g
November 18th, 2005 at 6:47 pmSomeone should have aborted her political career a long time ago. What an evil creepy and insane bitch that woman is! (Sorry to bitches everywhere to compare you to her)
November 18th, 2005 at 6:49 pm"A few minutes ago I received a call from Colonel Danny Bop, Ohio Representative from the 88th district in the House of Representatives. He asked me to send Congress a message: Stay the course. He also asked me to send Congressman Murtha a message, that cowards cut and run,"
We know, cowards have girls do their talking for them.
November 18th, 2005 at 6:51 pmThis is getting nuts....
November 18th, 2005 at 6:53 pmWATCH THE VOTE LIVE
http://www.bareknucklepolitics.com
The vote is soon...
Hmmm... Seems to me that "Cowards withdraw their statements, Heros stand by them..."
November 18th, 2005 at 6:54 pmo'reillian satire on the house floor? they've really sunk to a new low now.
November 18th, 2005 at 6:58 pmWho in the hell does she represent? This is crazy! You think she spent all her political capital in one place?
November 18th, 2005 at 7:00 pmJust for the record it's not Colonel Danny Bop, it's Colonel Danny R. Bubp.
Maybe he should explain his comments to Schmidt about Congressman Murtha! Contact info below;
http://www.house.state.oh.us/jsps/MemberDetails.jsp?DISTRICT=88
November 18th, 2005 at 7:05 pmThe military does not decide foriegn policy, civilians do. We are not run by a military junta....yet!
November 18th, 2005 at 7:06 pmThat video of Ms. Schmidt calling a decorated war veteran and long distinguished member of the House of Reps a 'coward' will make a nice campaign ad for her opponent in the next election.
She barely won that seat .. hopefully this despicable display will ensure her defeat.
November 18th, 2005 at 7:07 pmA political nobody trying to get her name in the national papers by using an over the cliff smear. Seen it before haven't we?
November 18th, 2005 at 7:13 pmI just love the whole "Troops support the war and believe in it because they are there and they die". I can tell you from personal experience as a Desert Storm combat vet that military personnel have zero say in what goes on and are expected to perform regardless of politics. Personally I hated both wars and felt the best support you could give me, as a soldier, was to get my butt out of there and back home.
Disrespecting the troops involves making them fight and die for fabricated reasons while attacking anyone trying to bring them home.
November 18th, 2005 at 7:15 pmShe looks like she is going to go to a tacky country line dance off. I should help out her Democratic opponent in 2006.
November 18th, 2005 at 7:19 pmWas Col. Bop a Republican per chance? Our service men and women will kill and be killed without compromise or question. That is why our elected representatives have to take control of this fiasco and bring our troops home. If one looks at the diary of a flight surgeon in Iraqon the New England Journal of Medicine, where he discusses and illustrates
November 18th, 2005 at 7:20 pmgraphically "typical" wounds, you can see how horrifically our soldiers are being maimed and disfigured. If the likes of Jean Schmidt can look at those images and still support our tropps then she probably didn't give birth to her children, rather she hatched them.
Mickey Mouse could run against her in the next election, with only one campaign commercial, cut directly from CSPAN.
November 18th, 2005 at 7:22 pmLook at her disrespecting my flag with that crappy dress.
November 18th, 2005 at 7:23 pmhttp://www.crooksandliars.com has a more appropriate pic of the tick.
Jean Full of Schmidt
Jean Schmidt, who defeated Iraq war veteran Paul Hackett for her seat in Ohio, shut down the House of Representatives by challenging the courage of decorated Vietnam War veteran Jack Murtha, saying "cowards cut and run." The place exploded. It was probably everybody pulling out their Blackberries and Googling Jean Schmidt's war record, where they no doubt found her history as the head of Cincinnati Right to Life. Presumably if Murtha's combat experience had been blowing up local Planned Parenthood clinics, that would have qualified.
November 18th, 2005 at 7:25 pmposted by Jane at firedoglake
I don't care if this lady is a Stooge or a Patriot she was elected. I just have to laugh at the outrage, are you all mad because her constiuents were fooled or maybe just maybe they agree with her? If the current administration is to blame for any of this mess it's the quick we don't have time for healthy debate we could be ruined by waiting, while also recogonizing the political suicide by the ELECTED offficials not clicking their heels and saying well better them than us. Communism, Islamofascism, what's next Pandoepidemilogicalpathogenism? Fear it does a party good.
November 18th, 2005 at 7:25 pmPretty pathetic! Think about it, Cheney could not respond effectively to the "5 deferments" comments to they had to find a female shill.
What a coward Cheney is!
November 18th, 2005 at 7:25 pmWhat's the matter with Ohio?
November 18th, 2005 at 7:28 pmDisrespecting the troops involves making them fight and die for fabricated reasons while attacking anyone trying to bring them home.
Comment by nada — November 18, 2005 @ 7:15 pm
I couldn't have said it better.
Welcome aboard.
November 18th, 2005 at 7:30 pmI think her hair was pulled back a little too tight. All she needs is a broom.
November 18th, 2005 at 7:33 pm#23
I got relatives in Ohio. It is not them. My relatives fully believe as do many of the residents in Ohio that their state was used to get Bush re-elected.
November 18th, 2005 at 7:34 pmAmazing display of hubris. Exploitation. Partisanship.
November 18th, 2005 at 7:34 pmIt was noted on another thread here that she is the one who eked out a victory over Paul Hackett, the Iraq veteran who ran for the Ohio House. THIS is what Ohio got instead of him!!
They should be discusted.
I'm a former Marine.
Considering that this Marine she spoke of is now dead; he may have believed in what he was doing up until a point, but we'll never know if he thinks that the price he paid was "worth it" now that he's paid it.
November 18th, 2005 at 7:35 pmFIRE THE BITCH, BETTER YET! SEND HER ASS TO IRAQ!
November 18th, 2005 at 7:37 pmJean Schmitt won in OH due to voting irregularities, I'll bet. Take a look at the crooked GOP political machine with their hand on the Diebold machines. Take a look at the latest report on the Bradblog. That's why Paul Hackett isn't in the House.
November 18th, 2005 at 7:38 pmBubp is still on active duty in the Marine Reserves and he's not that old a guy. If Murtha's the coward, why did Bubp have to send a woman to deliver the message, and why isn't Bubp over in Iraq, where his experience and expertise could be doing some actual good. We know who the true cowards are.
November 18th, 2005 at 7:38 pmWhat a PATRIOTIC outfit! That's pretty close to the American flag, so does that break any flag laws? (Kidding)
But I bet she wore that outfit specifically for her little message of Democrats being cowards.
November 18th, 2005 at 7:38 pmEveryone is talking about Draft Dodger Dick Cheney's five draft deferments. That's cool!
Also, please don't forget that Congressman Jack Murtha had been a Colonel in the Marine Corps for almost a decade when Dick Cheney --a shiftless, pudgy, drunken, punk-- was still getting busted for DUI:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/cheneydwi1.html
November 18th, 2005 at 7:38 pmhttp://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/cheneydwi2.html
I just LOVE these shouting matches on the house floor. It brings out passion in these congress men and women.
What an awful woman by the way.
November 18th, 2005 at 7:40 pmWhat a dumb bitch.....But expected
November 18th, 2005 at 7:45 pmLet us not forget that Jean Schmidt barely beat democratic opponent Paul Hackett who was himself an Iraqi War veteran running in an overhelmingly Republican district. She does make a good conservative, though, and I'm sure the people of Ohio are very proud of the way she applies those Ohio Republican values by shooting her mouth off in congress and getting then getting booed.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Jean looks a little thin to me. I mean, some of you would say that she is just another anorexic Repugnican bitch. Not me, of course, me being a redneck. I'm just wondering when her old man, Peter the stockbroker, last got into her pants. I mean, no wonder she is out running marathons all the time, and calling men "cowards" and such.
Peter, if you read this, you need to lay a little pipe, my man, as your old lady is one, mean, skinny-assed bitch.
November 18th, 2005 at 7:47 pm[...] Ohio should be proud. Again, they’ve elected a piece of Schmidt to office. What is with these people? How can these people assault a Congressman who’s served as cowardly with a President and Vice that hid in undisclosed locations playing with their GameBoys during Vietnam? What– was Murtha a Swift Boat panzie too? [...]
November 18th, 2005 at 7:47 pmIf you were to leave it tomilitary men we would constantly be at war. It's what they train to do. I know, I was one.
November 18th, 2005 at 7:49 pmNow the idiot Cowboy, he just wanted to deploy the military to see how it felt to wield that power.
"Can I play soldier, uncle Cheney??? Can I Can I?"
If you were to leave it to military men we would constantly be at war. It's what they train to do. I know, I was one.
November 18th, 2005 at 7:49 pmNow the Idiot Cowboy, he just wanted to deploy the military to see how it felt to wield that power.
"Can I play soldier, uncle Cheney??? Can I Can I?"
She can go to hell with all of the other bloodthirsty politicians.
November 18th, 2005 at 7:50 pmRichard,
Your comment was so choice I reposted it here-- under a quick blog piece entitled:
A PIECE OF SCHMIDT
http://www.macliberals.com/wordpress/?p=357
November 18th, 2005 at 7:54 pmWho's working that stick stuck up her butt? and is it thorney?
November 18th, 2005 at 7:57 pmAre her kids in Iraq? Well she has a daughter and two poodles.Not much to risk there.
The only military members and veterans progs seem to appreciate are from the "cut and run" pattern (i.e. John Kerry, John Murtha, Jimmy Cardigan, George Mc Govern, etc.) Whenever I hear a Dem extolling someone's fine military career, I have a strong suspicion they are cut from the Wesley "Kumbaya" Clark pattern Now the real warrior in THAT family looks like Gert (aka Mrs. Wesley).
November 18th, 2005 at 7:59 pmIsn't it interesting that she didn't mention anyone in her family serving in this war. Maybe she will join the swift voters and say that Murtha didn't earn his two purple hearts. I guess we can count on her as one who will loose their jobs in '06.
November 18th, 2005 at 8:01 pm"stay the course" What if the F'n bridge is OUT ahead bitch!
November 18th, 2005 at 8:01 pmSchmidt is pathetic. She stands up there like she's accomplishing something. She had sacrificed nothing in her life. She didn't understand the sorrow of the family whose funeral she attended. The hero is Murtha. He accomplished something. He spoke very elequently of sacrifice and sorrow. I could see his pain. This war is a waste.
November 18th, 2005 at 8:12 pmSchmidt, I don't want to hear about your messages. I want to hear from someone who knows war. I want to hear Murtha's statemnent not yours.
I used to be an Ohio State fan, but after their votes put Bush in office--GO MICHIGAN! The congress has been guilty of derelection of duty under the constitution(war powers act),abrogation of responsibility(too much time on steroids,at the expense of more pressing matters facing the nation),creating social unrest(faith based initiatives, interfereing in family matters such Shiavo,Malfeasance(permitting the deficit to grow without oversight). This congress serves at the pleasure of lobbyists and benefactors and not the American people. The spending habits of this congress has aided Bush in creating more debt in his administration that in all the previous administration before him. Where is the accountability?
November 18th, 2005 at 8:14 pmTHIS MEANS WAR, I HOPE YOU ALL ARE AWARE OF THAT!
November 18th, 2005 at 8:14 pmNO MARINE TAKES ANY CRAP LIKE THAT SITTING DOWN!!!
ESPECIALLY Congressman Murtha!!!!!
What's the matter with Ohio? Diebold voting machines!! That's how Republicans get elected there!!
November 18th, 2005 at 8:16 pmI'm waiting for Jean Schmidt to introduce a resolution stating that unless Reps dress in red, white, & blue then you are unpatriotic. C-Span is beating anything else on TV tonight.
November 18th, 2005 at 8:20 pmMy Message to Jean Schmidt-
How dare you question the courage, patriotism and legitimacy of a decorated Marine veteran on the House floor as a means of making a cheap, disgusting political point as the whore of the Republican Right? How dare you! You and your ilk disgust true patriots like myself, an Ohio State graduate and a son of another Marine officer.
We will destroy your political career and dispose of the lies, the manipulation, the self-serving profiteering that is draining this great country of it ideals, its standing in the world and killing thousands of people, Americans and others to no good purpose.
I promise you, you will pay politically. I dare you to come to this "rock ribbed Republican" State of New Hampshire and utter such vile and disgusting comments. Or are you too terrified to face us face to face and outside the "House of Lies" that the Republican-controlled House of Representatives has become. Come on! Coward!
Hoo Rah!
November 18th, 2005 at 8:20 pmMy Message to Jean Schmidt-
SAY YOUR SORRY, SAY IT ! SAY YOUR SORRY YOU LITTLE bi**H!!!!!!!!!
November 18th, 2005 at 8:24 pm#47
Nova16,
Ohio's votes were rigged. I have relatives there. People are upset that the vote did not go the way they thought it should. Take a look at the exit poles and then heed the fact that the CEO (now resigned) for Diebold promised Bush Ohio. Does that make sense?
November 18th, 2005 at 8:27 pmit was the CFO that resigned... CEO walden ("we'll deliver Ohio's electoral votes to Bush"> is filling both positions for the moment.
November 18th, 2005 at 8:29 pm[...] Watch more Shame [...]
November 18th, 2005 at 8:31 pmThe Republican plan to vote on a resolution against withdrawing troops is simply a smear campaign to paint Democrats as unpatriotic wimps. They're extremely loud about it and it usually works.
This time it has a double purpose.
The second purpose is to draw attention away from the reverse Robin Hood they've been playing with the budget. We really need to be talking about this extremely loudly.
November 18th, 2005 at 8:31 pmAccording to Bubp marines never cut and run. Do corporate security guards cut and run? cause that is what you are and were.
November 18th, 2005 at 8:33 pmThey are not coming home as long as there is oil to pump, bases to guard, and other countries to rip-off.
Jean Schmidt better watch out for twisters. A house might fall on her
November 18th, 2005 at 8:38 pmHey, somebody stick something in the bitches mouth!
November 18th, 2005 at 8:39 pmAfter watching CSPAN tonight it would seem that many of the Republican Reps. are not much more intelligent than the trolls that frequent this site. Scarey.
November 18th, 2005 at 8:41 pmHopefully, this furor will FINALLY wake everyone up in the country up to what many of us knew before we even went into Iraq. Just remember, you can wrap a pig up in an American flag and call it patriotic; some idiots will even salute it. But at the end of the day, it's still....just....a pig. Just substitute "Iraq war" for pig and there you have it.
November 18th, 2005 at 8:49 pm[...] >> VIDEO: Schmidt’s Shame >> MORE: After watching the operations of the GOP in the House of Rep., there’s no way Malkin could call our side unhinged by any stretch of the mind. Oh, that would require a mind. Right. [...]
November 18th, 2005 at 8:51 pmWhat Murtha did was dastardly!
USMC (Retired)
November 18th, 2005 at 8:53 pmMighty aphordite #43, its me, Joe. Girl, I like the way you come in and call the exmilitary people here cut from the same cloth as Kerry, Clark, etc. Personally, I am a vet and I like old Wes Clark. You got to admit, all those you slammed sure have better military records and an understanding of war than those chickenhawk draftdodgers like Cheney, Wolfowitz, Ashcroft, and Dennis Hastert. You did know that all of them, including warhawks O'Reilly, Limbaugh, Newt Gingrich, Karl Rove and many others dodged the draft during the Vietnam War, didn't you? And forget about Jean Schmidt, she's too busy running marathons to serve her country.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought you said you served 12 years in the military? I mean, that being said, how could you ever, EVER side with that skinny-assed disgraceful bitch who called a war hero like Murtha a coward? Especially when Murtha has been a hawk and ardent supporter of the Bushwars. The libs here would say that "cutting and running" is as phony as "staying the course" because Rummy and Cheney don't have clue on what hell they are doing.
Hey, aphrodite, do you agree with me that if Peter Schmidt was to poke his old lady now and then, Jean wouldn't be such a hateful, brooding bitch, don't you? I mean, really, isn't she a bitter little twit, or what?
November 18th, 2005 at 8:58 pmWhat Jean Schmidt did was dastardly!
November 18th, 2005 at 8:59 pmUSMC(Ret.)
Wow, the entire state of Ohio must be embarrassed.
Just like Bush phoning in his personal war, Bubp had to call in his comments and have someone else do his heavy lifting for him. Even his taste in messengers is bad.
And, riddle me this ... how does she know what that fallen Marine thought before he died? Does she speak to the dead? I mean, God talks to Bush and all ... maybe House Reps can speak to the dead. Sheez.
November 18th, 2005 at 8:59 pm#54
Thanks for the clarification. Unlike republicans, I do like to have my facts straight.
November 18th, 2005 at 8:59 pmThe RW Republicans have their VietNam underway again. The boogey men back then were communists. Today its Muslims. It took 15 years to extricate ourselves from the SE quagmire. Today, we are a little smarter and more wary of the MIC and the corporate war profiteers. There is no compelling reason to shed blood in Iraq, just as there was no reason in VietNam. All the Republicans can do is question our patriotism because they have no compelling case to continue this immoral and unjustifiable war.
November 18th, 2005 at 8:59 pmWhen I first saw that image I thought they we bringing the Shiavo debate up again.
November 18th, 2005 at 9:01 pm#63. Henriet Cousin? Retired? when?
November 18th, 2005 at 9:02 pmHow long? from what yr to what yr?
MOS?
Duty Assignments?????
PROVE IT FIRST!BEFORE MAKING DEROGATORY STATEMENTS!
Gotta say, that there dog fight on the floor was pretty inspiring. Howard Fineman commented, on Olbermann's Countdown tonight (Fri) that what actually happened when Ms Lovely Scmidt barfed out the coward statement, was that about a gazillion Dems ROSE from their seats and began to rumble. Sort of Capraesque, dont you think? I'm lovin it.....
November 18th, 2005 at 9:13 pmIs Congressman Jack Murtha Marine Corps in YOUR TOTAL OPINION TRULY A COWARD???
November 18th, 2005 at 9:15 pmOR JUST A THOUGHTFULL PERSON?
I KNOW MY ANSWER, IS A THOUGHTFULL PERSON!
GET OFF THE HOUSE FLOOR AND INTO THE THE SAND DITCHES OF IRAQ IF YOU THINK THIS CRIME IS THE "RIGHT THING"!
"I like guys who got five deferments and (have) never been there and send people to war, and then don't like to hear suggestions about what needs to be done,’ Murtha said." ~ The Honorable John Murtha
November 18th, 2005 at 9:18 pmWhat Schmidt did was wrong, I think she should have been made to opologize rather than just having to retract her statement and Lie that it was not meant as toward Jack Murtha. She should be censored.
Congressman Murtha showed real courage in his timein the marines and showed it when hemade his stand calling for withdrawal, knowing that he would be attacked by the republican spin machine. That's real courage
November 18th, 2005 at 9:19 pmWhile I find Schmidt's comments reprehensible, the comments on here attacking her because she's a woman are just as disturbing, especially from "enlightened" liberals.
November 18th, 2005 at 9:20 pm#71
I believe #63 was sarcasm. Check it out. Murtha is dastardly for retring from the Marines. That is a joke. He served for 30 some odd years and was a Colonel. Nothing dastardly about that. He is a true American hero that deserves that respect. That is why it is a joke. People.......oh nevermind.
November 18th, 2005 at 9:23 pmOH! NOW ITS BECAUSE SHE IS A WOMAN??
November 18th, 2005 at 9:23 pmHOW RETARDED ARE YOU?
#77. HAHAHA.(Not Funny).
November 18th, 2005 at 9:26 pmI,m Sorry, I do not get the Humour.
#78
The Caps Lock key is 3/16 of an inch from your pinky finger, which should be resting on the "A". Stretch that little puppy over there and press that sucker once. You might find more people respond to you that way.
Did you know all caps is considered yelling? So, going by your posts, you are a raving madman.
Come back to us.
November 18th, 2005 at 9:28 pmWill someone please put a burka on that screeching shrew of a women! My eyes!!!
Actually, lets see more of her. I think she is an excellent spokeswoman for the republican party. I think that so many moderates see the right-wing as just a bunch of harmless churchladies and good old boys and give them a pass. It is time moderates wake up and realize - these people are dangerous.
This screwball harpy is out to change America, and trust me - most of the people posting on this site will not be welcomed in her America.
November 18th, 2005 at 9:33 pmCrazy Bee-otch!
November 18th, 2005 at 9:39 pm[...] This particular clip of Representative Jean Schmidt (R-OH) insulting Democratic representative John Murtha on the floor of the house is incredible. The republicans are truly in panic mode and it shows. For those not in the know, Rep. Murtha just called for an immediate troop pullout from Iraq. Watching this I am reminded of the clips I have seen from Question Period in the House of Commons here in Canada. Filed under: End of Nomaddom by Todd Tyrtle | [...]
November 18th, 2005 at 9:39 pmyea well, after serving 21 + yrs, i tend to get raving mad, Spudge, Did you know one of my four daughters spent an entire year in n. Iraq? Shes home now, but, the point is, I AM RAVING MAD
November 18th, 2005 at 9:47 pmWell yea, after serving 21 + yrs, i tend to get raving mad, Spudge, Did you know one of my four daughters spent an entire year in n. Iraq? Shes home now, but, the point is, I AM RAVING MAD
November 18th, 2005 at 9:48 pmSpudge, I wrote this under the msg above, for some reason it did not appear:
November 18th, 2005 at 9:50 pmSorry spudge, i will try to calm down now.
I recently tried phoning the congresswoman from Ohio at her office (202-225-3164) to express my outrage but her voice mail was full. Go figure.
November 18th, 2005 at 9:51 pmMarines never cut and run.
That is the truth.
And Mr. Murtha will never cut and run.
He will stay the course with WE THE PEOPLE
and stand up for what is right no matter how
many CHICKENHAWKS call him names.
Thank you Mr. Murtha!!!!!!!!!!!
(That woman is a real freak!)
November 18th, 2005 at 9:54 pmAlso, love how she assumes the Marine who died supported the war. Maybe he thought it was a debacle.
To be clear, I don't know what he thought. Unlike Republicans like Schmidt, Coulter, and Malkin, I can't read the mind of soldiers from beyond the grave.
November 18th, 2005 at 10:00 pm"...I promise you, you will pay politically. I dare you to come to this “rock ribbed Republican†State of New Hampshire and utter such vile and disgusting comments. Or are you too terrified to face us face to face and outside the “House of Lies†that the Republican-controlled House of Representatives has become. Come on! Coward!
Hoo Rah!...
Take my word for it, she comes to New York and we'll beat the shit out of the ugly bitch.
November 18th, 2005 at 10:04 pmHey Warbloggers, I hope you are safe. Please, watch your back as you fight the insurgency. We want you back alive so your wives and children can be proud of you.
Of fer gods sake, I can't keep it up, you cheetoh slugging douchebags are cowards. Admit it. If you do, you will receive much respect.
November 18th, 2005 at 10:06 pm# 59 tomz. I agree but think she is sending a message to GW and Cheney of her qualifications. Thing is, it won't work with this bunch, wrong party and every one knows drunks and druggies don't play.Can't. LOL. Bush could be impressed enough to give her a nod for a good job doing something else though. A recruiter in Iowa maybe.
November 18th, 2005 at 10:07 pmI have had it with these chickenhawks. I was outraged at watching the Republican Convention and seeing all those ignorant, disrepectful, morons waving their fingers with a purple bandaid to humiliate Kerry's "earned" ribbons and war experience. Maybe we should put a YELLOW bandaid on our middle finger and salute that chickenhawk who pretends to commander in chief.
Now we have to put up with that war hero Schmidt telling us vets what we feel? She must have one hell of an honorable military record.
November 18th, 2005 at 10:08 pmMy letter to Schmidt. None of
her phone recorders would accept messages, must be they are all full.
Jean Schmidt
Occupier of the Congressional Seat of Ohio 2nd District
2423 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515
I refuse to address you as a Member of Congress, nor will I respect your position with the title of Honorable. You abrogated any respect I would have had for you when you uttered your remarks of November 18th, in which you challenged the courage of decorated Vietnam War veteran, Congressman John Murtha of Pennsylvania, saying "cowards cut and run."
Congressman Murtha has expressed the feeling of a great number of people in this country with their dissatisfaction with the illegal Iraq war, and he did not call for an immediate withdrawal of troops, as you tried to portray. He did say “as soon as is practicableâ€. Congressman Murtha’s experience in war gives him an insight you will never have.
I understand you later were told to make an apology for your heinous remarks. I do not accept that apology. I am a Vietnam combat war veteran, and I found your remarks to be despicable.
Because I am an honorable man, and have great respect for women, I cannot express to you how I really feel about you, except to say, you Madam, you are an ass.
November 18th, 2005 at 10:12 pmThe Republicans of this nation are a danger to themselves and others.
They are not rational.
They are not sane, nor effective.
They are either liars or delusional.
Neither this nation nor the world can take anymore of them.
This Independent says bring them all down!
Read the Declaration of Independence!
It is time to act on our nation's founding principles!
November 18th, 2005 at 10:18 pmI Agree Nam-Vet, I am sorry Plastic americans are spitting in your face.
November 18th, 2005 at 10:20 pmI know how you feel.
They Suck. in ref to #92,76, and all chickenhawks, GO TO HELL! do not collect $200.00, do not pass go, GO DIRECTLY TO HELL.
NEVER EVER SPIT IN A VETS FACE FOR STANDING UP TO WHAT IS RIGHT AND WHAT WENT WRONG!
THIS TIME
BEEEEEEEEEEYUTCH!
November 18th, 2005 at 10:24 pmGRAB THE FRIGGIN' PITCHFORKS AND SHOW UP AT SMITTY'S
SH*T HOUSE DOOR AND TAKE AWAY HER TOILET PAPER -
PITCHFORKS BABY - GET THE PITCHFORKS
November 18th, 2005 at 10:26 pmQUOTE: "Mr. Speaker, my remarks were not directed to any member of the House and I did not intend to suggest they applied to any member, most especially the distinguished gentleman from Pennsylvania."
Oh, but Jean, they WERE, they were...
QUOTE: "He also asked me to send Congressman Murtha a message..."
Of course, when she said the message was for Murtha, she never meant the remark that immediately followed was intended for Murhta. Or so she wants us to believe.
The GOP: they can't even apologize without lying.
November 18th, 2005 at 10:41 pmShe is not a woman, She is a WITCH!
November 18th, 2005 at 10:46 pmOkay: this is Ohio State Legislature Representative (R-88th District) Danny R. Bubp. He is 51, this is his first term. His prior civic and political accomplishment is to have been elected as a county court judge.
He can be reached at:
district88@ohr.state.oh.us
(614) 644-6034
Representative Bubp, according to his official Ohio Legislature web page, was awarded the Joint Service Commendation Medal, Navy and Marine Corps Commendation Medal, and the Army Commendation Medal during his military service. His rank and branch are not given.
Alert readers with a service background will draw certain conclusions from which decorations Bubp was awarded.
I would urge any reader with the desire to do so to email or call Representative Bubp and ask why, if he is a Marine, he would call another Marine a coward who holds combat decorations and a Purple Heart.
November 18th, 2005 at 10:58 pmFirst Sue Burmeister, Now this Woman. What is up with (some of)you women ?
November 18th, 2005 at 11:03 pmJeanne Schmidt (CH-OH) Another chicken hawk in full flight....
November 18th, 2005 at 11:14 pmre #103:
First Sue Burmeister, Now this Woman. What is up with (some of)you women ?
Don't even try playing that, buddy. This has nothing to do with them being women, and everything to do with them being good Republicans. Keep the focus where it belongs, thanks.
November 18th, 2005 at 11:26 pmGood Republicans?
November 18th, 2005 at 11:29 pmwhich side of the fence did you fall on?
From the independent:
"The Army Field Manual, which states: "The use of weapons which employ fire ... is not violative of international law. They should not, however, be employed in such a way as to cause unnecessary suffering to individuals."
The 1980 UN Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons prohibits use of incendiaries against civilians and demands that forces using them against military targets take all available steps to avoid civilian casualties."
Looks like White Phosphorous is not only a breach of the army field manual, but is banned by the UN as a Non-Conventional weapon.
November 18th, 2005 at 11:30 pmWondered what happened to the stolen Munch painting "The Scream." Seems to have surfaced in the U.S. House of Representatives. Obviously, there's no longer a dress code in effect.
November 18th, 2005 at 11:30 pmI am proud to say that I went to Rep. Murtha's official website and because I'm from the 12th district in the state of PA, where I'm from, I was more than proud to leave him my message of support and to continue to do the right thing and never let the chickenhawks get to him.
Thank God Murtha's my Representative.
November 18th, 2005 at 11:31 pmI blame Women, It is afterall , What they wanted!
GENESIS CHAPTER 3
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
November 18th, 2005 at 11:33 pm1 ¶ Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
6 ¶ And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes,
I was watching the debate till the bitter end and it occurred to me that the only speaker who really cares about the troops is Mr. Murtha.
November 18th, 2005 at 11:39 pmBill, You,re Right.
November 18th, 2005 at 11:43 pmAnd, Only one woman. Cindy Sheeham.
Ladies, Ladies, I,m only joking. There are ALOT of americans that want the war to End Immediately. But, are not sure, or know how to end it.
November 18th, 2005 at 11:47 pmonly those in power can really end it.
or maybe God can end it.
God Bless Rep. Burtha!
November 18th, 2005 at 11:56 pmThank you for your continuing service to this country.
re. #114. - yeah, i meant Murtha!
November 18th, 2005 at 11:58 pmmy humble apologies.
What A Piece of Schmidt
I also hope this haunts Mike DeWine and every other Ohio Repugnantcan with the stain they all deserve -- corrupt, a-moral, despicable criminal hacks that they are.
November 19th, 2005 at 12:11 amWhat else would you expect from bullschmidt. She represents a ya-hoo county in Ohio that has a weekly raids on meth labs and is full of sexual predators. She tried the same inuendos against Hackett and he called her down on every one of her bullschmidt comments. She's a neocon wannabe with a big mouth and somebody ought to sue the hell out of her.
And yes, there are still lingering questions on the last election in which she ran. The whole damned state is corrupt, from the Gov., the legislature, to Bullschmidt.
November 19th, 2005 at 12:11 amMighty Aphrodite,
You sound just like the Republican talking points. Do you ever have an original thought?
Redleg,
November 19th, 2005 at 12:12 amformer CPT, FA, US Army
BRAVO REDLEG, Welcome.
November 19th, 2005 at 12:22 amwe,ve been waiting on you guys.
Please help explain why our freedom bubbles are about to burst.
tyia
I find it interesting that a LEFTIST blog is mentioning and actually quoting these words. These comments that Schmidt so inelequently shared with the nation originated with a soldier.
How does it feel to know that many soldiers feel this way about the "cut & run caucus" aka DEMOCRATS?
November 19th, 2005 at 1:04 am[...] The desperation of Republicans in the Congress are best left without comment by me right now. I’ll let a Republican member of the House do that here. [...]
November 19th, 2005 at 1:25 amThis pathetic excuse for a Congresswoman is a disgrace to this country. I fear that the time may soon be upon us when we will be forced to take back this nation ourselves. The patriots that founded this country stood up to British bullets and lies, will we be up to the task if it falls to us? When will we send one million, two million souls to Washington and blockade the White House and the Senate and FORCE them to impeach these traitors, to give us our country back?
November 19th, 2005 at 1:32 amAnd we all thought Kathrine Harris was the ugliest women in Congress...as we say here in Georgia, 'If my dog had a face like that, I'd shave it's ass and teach it to walk backwards!'
November 19th, 2005 at 1:32 amWhere did she get the idea that "...the rest of AMERICA and the WORLD...want us to see this through!" She needs to do a REALITY CHECK, or get her information from somewhere other than White House talking points and/or rightwing talk radio...THE REST OF HUMANITY WANTS TO SEE AN END TO THIS ILLEGAL WAR, INCLUDING THE USE OF WMD'S ON CIVILIAN POPULATIONS AS WELL!!
And where was her fellow rep., the Colonel? And why would a real marine send a despicable message like that to another fellow marine...and through a woman who plays dress-up to look like a patriot (yet knows nothing about REAL war!), no less...typical Repugnant-can behavior. They love to wrap themselves in the flag and America, yet cut and run when needed to do the actual fighting for the rights and freedoms they claim for themselves.
November 19th, 2005 at 1:42 amThink of the most shrill voices for war, those advocated who never spent a second in uniform, never
November 19th, 2005 at 1:45 ambled on the field of battle, never held onto someone dying. This traitorous whore should be publicly flogged. Or, better yet, send her to Baghdad immediately, she can drive a Humvee and get shot at and THEN she can question John Murtha and not a second sooner.
That "message" from Schmidt was absolutely unacceptable. She did not even offer an appology. What was she thinking? Nevertheless like #76, I'm really disappointed by many of the comments on this blog calling her names.
November 19th, 2005 at 2:24 amShe was full of Schmidt once. She is full of Schmidt now.
November 19th, 2005 at 2:35 am[...] Representative Jean Schmidt, (R-OH), the most junior member of the House of Representatives, gave a speech today. She had this to say in response to Representative John Murtha (D-PA) speech yesterday (via Think Progress): A few minutes ago I received a call from Colonel Danny Bubp, Ohio Representative from the 88th district in the House of Representatives. He asked me to send Congress a message: Stay the course. He also asked me to send Congressman Murtha a message, that cowards cut and run, Marines never do. Danny and the rest of America and the world want the assurance from this body – that we will see this through. [...]
November 19th, 2005 at 2:38 am[...] Apparently, I missed the worst of this little political opera. Earlier, Ohio Republican Jean Schmidt came onto the House floor and read a letter supposedly from an American soldier, directly suggesting that Marine veteran Jack Murtha was a coward. If you can stomach it, here’s the video of this poor excuse for a U.S. Congresswoman delivering her disgusting libel. [...]
November 19th, 2005 at 2:45 amEva Braun (aka Schmidt) needs to have her mouth washed out with soap for daring to call Murtha a coward. She also is an OBVIOUS liar for saying she didn't call Murtha a coward WHEN SHE DID!
November 19th, 2005 at 2:58 am....#120... SoCalPundit 1:04 am ..
How does it feel to be a coward, chickenhawk?
November 19th, 2005 at 3:00 amJudging by that photo, she needs her mouth washed out with a phallus...
November 19th, 2005 at 3:08 amthis punk ass sub human posing as a human female bad mouthing a true vetran. this kind of talk makes me want to go conan the barbarian upon the cult of the repukeslimes. not one of these republican cowards went into combat. wheres is the justice, wheres the outrage this will not stand KILL THE WITCHY BITCH not really but that how i feel
yo cia i will not kill her you know your read my dossier.
November 19th, 2005 at 3:14 amSend more troops to Iraq and keep them there forever.
The troops vote for people like Schmidt and
Bush... 92% of military voted Republican. I say
do what the President wants! Keep them there til there's peace (i.e., forever)! As far as I'm concerned, I'm all for more more more troops being
sent to Iraq. Give the troops what they want! They WANT this war. They want to be in Iraq. They LOVE the death and destruction. It makes them feel alive (how ironic)! Let 'em thin the ranks of Republican voters
by sending ALL our troops to Iraq and Chechnya!
That's what I'm voting for!
Mike L.
November 19th, 2005 at 3:20 am"Cut and run" is so 2004... They actually think there's still a war to fight! Hopefully this distasteful stunt will backfire; the end is nigh for the GOP. How much more of this can the American people take?
November 19th, 2005 at 3:50 amNothing new for the Rethuglicans - shoot the messenger.
The Iraq war is already lost and the US can either pull out now with some degree of dignity, or be routed at a later date in an ignominious defeat, just like Vietnam.
November 19th, 2005 at 3:55 amI will send her Democratic opponent next year a contribution. Don't believe I'll be the only one from out of state to do so.
November 19th, 2005 at 4:35 amThis lady looks like a long time meth user and street walker.
November 19th, 2005 at 4:46 am“Congress in strong, bipartisan fashion rejected the call to cut and run,†press secretary Scott McClellan, traveling with Bush in Asia, said in a statement.
Wow, what a suprise,never would have expected this response from the most pathetic political lacky representing the most reprehensible administration in my lifetime. It just goes to show: if you contrive it, they will vote for it. Congresswoman Schmidt? My guess is that McClellan refers to her as "Aunt Jean."
November 19th, 2005 at 5:14 amYou know, I think that this woman is utter trash, but I find it quite disturbing that, instead of focusing in on her reprehensible comments, people are instead using the fact she is female to condemn her. It's sad to see what seems to be a very liberal group disgracing itself by spouting sexist remarks. That's Republican talk!
November 19th, 2005 at 5:16 amInterestingly, it's a woman fromm the far right, the men have no balls!
November 19th, 2005 at 5:37 ammakes me proud to be an ohioan. honestly, what did we do to deserve this kind of representation?
November 19th, 2005 at 5:41 am#141... I agree.
And this is standard republican distraction. Keep sending different people in to carry the propaganda, make the statements loud to stir it up, grab the headlines and distract from the truth. And don't always use the same people so that it becomes a collective voice with no one person is easily targeted. This time they sent a woman, next time it'll be some other skag repub. But these people need to be targeted, as now the republican scum want to target Murtha's brother with an ethics probe.
Besides, she's not a woman, she's a christian-right hag from Cincinnati who promotes the killing of doctors. Christo-fascists deserve no mercy.
November 19th, 2005 at 5:50 am#141... I agree.
But this is just republican nationalistic distraction straight from 1930's Germany. Keep sending different people in with the propaganda, make the statements loud to stir it up, grab the headlines and let it distract from the truth. And don't always use the same people so that it'll resemble a collective voice with no one person being easily targeted. This time they sent a woman, next time it'll be some other skag repub. But these people do need to be targeted, as now the republican scum target Murtha's brother with an ethics probe in standard Repub bully-boy fashion.
Besides, she's not a woman, she's a christian-right hag from Cincinnati who promotes the killing of doctors. Christo-fascists deserve no mercy and bullies are cowards.
November 19th, 2005 at 5:59 amTell me something… do you suppose there are troops over there who are not thrilled to be participating in the “lottery�??
Do you suppose they are entitled to representation??? Do you think they could use a little support, someone to speak for them??? Someone to stand up and say, “democracy is best when initiated by those who want it�??
Not all participants in Iraq are professional soldiers, many are National Guardsman and Reservists… Why should they see their lives lost, limbs taken away, businesses flounder, marriages ruined… so an Iraqi can vote????
Cut and run???? How is that possible when the mission has been accomplished????
November 19th, 2005 at 7:25 amShe does ot speak for me when she says the rest of America.
November 19th, 2005 at 7:53 amI want them home before any body else dies!
There's a lot of talk by the Republicans about a "cut and run" policy in Iraq, but it seems to me that no one can "cut and run" quite like the neocons that wanted this invasion/occupation. Collectively, President Bush, Cheney, Rice, Wolfowitz, Chalabi, et al. might have spent an average of less than a week in Iraq. Swooping down with evasive efficiency to avoid drawing enemy fire. Wearing bulletproof vests. Swooping into a heavily fortified camp to "inspire" the troops with the usual "stay the course" dogma. And then 'POOF,'they're gone. Back to their safe enclosure that has become the White House which is no longer the People's House. The rank hypocrisy is shattering.
November 19th, 2005 at 8:01 amWhat's wrong with the Dems? Why did they even vote on the sham resolution? Why didn't Pelosi have the brains and the guts to stage a walkout? It would have been a triumph.
Instead, she and the Dems offer the tepid "American can do better."
November 19th, 2005 at 8:07 amThat's my congresswoman, loved every minute of it.
November 19th, 2005 at 8:11 amA real vagina gets her monologue.
November 19th, 2005 at 8:12 amWhat if Congress had opposed Vietnam sooner?
Hawkish decorated veteran House Democrat calls for withdrawal from Iraq. Uproar, hijinks right-wing silliness ensure.
November 19th, 2005 at 8:12 amwhy is schmidt's military age daughter joining the fight in iraq if the congresswoman thinks the cause is worth the life of another american son or daughter? typical wingnut call for action--stay the course, don't cut and run, but send others to fight and die.
November 19th, 2005 at 8:29 amin last post I meant why isn't her daughter not joining the fight--sorry
November 19th, 2005 at 8:30 amPosturing and writhing by a party is a state of complete panic! They understand but only intuitively what's happen to both Bush and the party that "brung" him. They've been reframed. The topic is no longer "whether" but "when" we pull out of Iraq. Military forces are designed to win military engagements; the only victory to be had in Iraq is a political one and we lost that battle from the date of our invasion. And we continue to lose it each additional day we stay. Out of Iraq now...before it bankrupts the U.S.
November 19th, 2005 at 8:38 amNoodling around in the web trying to figure out who the mysterious "Col Bubp" referenced by Rep. Schmidt in her scummy attack on a certified war hero, Rep Jack Murtha I found that Col Bubp is, or perhaps was, indeed a Marine Col, who is a representative for the 88th District of the Ohio House of Representatives (y'all know DIEBOLD OHIO). If he did pass on to her the unwarranted cut at Rep Murtha, it's a point of interest that he has no Combat "Props" and his only awards are three give-away Commendation medals from agencies and activities he served with during whatever Active Duty time he served, piss poor harvest for a career as a Col. To reference this man as an authority on Heroism is ludicrous at best, and is a statement about Repug lies, manipulations of the truth, etc. Furthermore, it seems that Col Bubp used his military service and rank as a "prop" card in his run for his own seat, in violation of what I understand to be Military regulations against "politicking in uniform":
http://www.geocities.com/danin04/
and if youLook and this little blurb from a Repugnican site on our Deer Jean and her shenanigans :
"Jean Schmidt--former Rep to Ohio's General Assembly. Heavy hitter in Clermont County Politics. Known as Mean Jean for her past vicious attacks against opponents and her singleminded, almost dogmatic devotion to her own vision. Claims to be for lowering taxes and being pro-development, but caved and voted for the increased state taxes in Ohio that have driven businesses and population away. Claims to be for conservative honest values, but ran a very questionable campaign against Tom Niehaus in the primary for State Senator. Used alliance with former Speaker Householder to get extra campaign funds (Householder told those special interests who supported him that if they gave to Niehaus, they would lose access; they had to give to Schmidt), which is highly questionable. Uses deceptive campaign material which portrays her as having the endorsement of Rob Portman. Also used a conversation with State Rep. Danny Bubp as a claim she had his endorsement when he issued no such endorsement. Later bragged to party officials how she pulled one over on people for making it look like Bubp endorsed her. Now seeks to run so she can challenge Pelosi, Clinton, Boxer, and the other women of Washington. Blindly ambitious, and will do anything to win. Is known for attempting last minute charges which cannot be substantiated by the election. Sounded like AlGore when she lost to Niehaus after mandatory recount. Many disillusioned by her tactics, despite her attempts to soften image."
verify at:
http://marksremarks.blogspot.com/2005_06_01_marksremarks_archive.html
Neat eh? The slime that used to be the Republican Party has fouled this nation and needs to be removed.
"Patriotism means being loyal to your country all the time and to its government when it deserves it." Mark Twain
November 19th, 2005 at 8:50 amI just want the rest of the nation to know, not all Ohioans are so repugnant as this piece of human waste(Schmidt).... The informed electorate of Ohio is tired of Repugs shaming us to the rest of the nation...I urge all people in Schmidt's district to DEFEAT her in 2006 and rid the nation and our state of such disgusting displays in the future.
November 19th, 2005 at 9:06 amMark - thanks for the link to Danny Bubp's website. Just sent him an email. We should all send that coward an email. Looks like the Democrats will have their work cut out for them in Ohio next year. Here's hoping we have Democrat Iraq veterans to run against these Yellow Elephants.
November 19th, 2005 at 9:08 am#135. I agree with your comments. Having three brothers in WWII and serving in the US Army myself, I support sending more troops to Iraq as long as they are fresh young republicans from Ohio. Let this phony war run its course. Maybe in ten years we can all take a cruise to Iraq sponored by Halliburton. The "Fog of War" so entrenched in the Viet Nam era influenced by the policies of Sec of Defense McNamara is in full notice and a part of the American psyche today. Staying the course and honoring the dead who have died in action by killing more young Americans is akin to riding a dead horse. A majority of Americans have sorrowfully come to the conclusion that they have been duped into war and want those responsible to be held accountable. Those who advocate strong support for this war are in a "Cloud of Confusion". This current congress has wrought more social,political and economic turmoil upon the American people than any previous government in our history! GO MICHIGAN!
November 19th, 2005 at 9:17 amShe certainly doesn't seem cowardly in the fellatio department. I mean, look at that mouth -- swallow a horse if she had to.
November 19th, 2005 at 9:19 amThese people in southern Ohio would vote for Benito Mussolini if his name had an (R) for republican after it on the voting ballot. They are pure red meat repubs voting for people like Schmidt. Politics over country.
November 19th, 2005 at 9:25 amOne Harvey Pekar is worth 1000 Jean Schmidts.
Wake up, Ohio!
November 19th, 2005 at 9:29 amI wish the clip was longer. The Washington Post mentioned her Repub collegues gathering ariound her, and her sitting down looking dazed. That's what I want to see -- the dazed looked of confusion and comeuppance.
November 19th, 2005 at 9:44 amI support this war and am conservative on many things, but--her remarks are disgusting. Reprehensible. Wrong. Period.
November 19th, 2005 at 9:47 am#95
Good letter! My hats off to you.
November 19th, 2005 at 9:48 am403 to 3. Wow. Is that all the anti-war Left could muster? THREE whole votes? How many man-hours of dishonest attack-dog politics is that per vote? How many hours of wasted time in the blogosphere? How many wasted words of MSM nonsense? How many wasted dollars of political contributions to spineless Democrats who can't even stand in support of a guy they all say is a "brave American?"
If Jack Murtha is so brave, and if his cut-and-run proposal is such a great idea, congressional Dems should have been falling all over themselves to vote for this resolution. After all, it perfectly expressed the Democratic plan for Iraq. As it turned out, though, Danny Bubp was right. What a bunch of cowards and hypocrites!
November 19th, 2005 at 9:52 am"Mr. Speaker, my remarks were not directed to any member of the House and I did not intend to suggest they applied to any member, most especially the distinguished gentleman from Pennsylvania."
Anyone who actually saw Rep. Schmidt deliver her original remarks knows that they were not directed at any individual House member. They were directed - and rightly so - at every member of the Democratic Cut-and-Run Caucus!
You go girl!
November 19th, 2005 at 9:55 amAdd Murtha to the long list of veterans that have been called cowards by the GOP. Ths party that likes to say they "support the troops" has called JFK, John Kerry, Max Cleland, Jimmy Carter and George Mcgovern all coward and traitors. This display is sickening.
November 19th, 2005 at 10:01 am#143
November 19th, 2005 at 10:03 amOhioans will need to take back their State government. You will need to change the voting machines. One way to take back you State is to have big "write-in" campaigns. You can't write-in on a Diebold machine. This can be done. It takes a lot of ground troops to work the polls to get the votes.
Just watched the news conference on CSPAN. It was the Republican response to Rep Murtha. I love the "stay the course" Republicans.
But the constant comparisons to the Great Struggles of the Past, especially World War II just ring hollow. Do these people actually read history books, or did they learn about the war from watching "Combat" when they were kids?
The war was a struggle against advanced industrial miltary powers. It actually was a struggle for civilization itself. If the so-called "Global War on Terror" (or whatever they're calling it now) is in the same league as that war, are they then prepared to make the same sacrifices to win it?
It's a struggle for civilization, as Schmidt says in her comments...
Right?
OK Then...
-Are the Republicans ready to mobilize the entire country?
-Conscript every able-bodied person of military age?
-Increase taxes to World War II levels to support a war economy?
-Begin rationing of essential materials such as gasoline, rubber, nylon, steel, semiconductors, etc.?
...Well..??
...oh, I didn't think so...
... because people might get pissed off then... and their little charade would end.
So good luck with the whole "stay the course (non-)plan". I hope they vote down the Dems withdrawl bill... so then the responsibility for whatever happens next can be theirs completely.
November 19th, 2005 at 10:04 am"Three Democrats, Jose Serrano of New York, Robert Wexler of Florida and Cynthia McKinney of Georgia, voted for withdrawal. Six voted present: Reps. Jim McDermott of Washington; Jerrold Nadler, Maurice Hinchey and Major Owens of New York; Michael Capuano of Massachusetts and William Lacy Clay of Missouri." (H/T: MSNBC)
Oh yeah, those six Dems who voted "present" sure showed the rest of us how to take a principled stand on the war. They are worse than cowards; they're pathetic.
PS: How many Dems does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
Answer: No one knows. Dems prefer darkness and lies to the light of truth!
November 19th, 2005 at 10:05 am"Ohioans will need to take back their State government."
You haven't been paying attention. They just did - by defeating four "reform" proposals by out-of-state meddlers like you!
November 19th, 2005 at 10:07 amBlue State Red #168: as a rightwinger, I thought your take was nicely said.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the lefties here would like you to say it again, only this time try saying through you mouth.
Dipshit.
November 19th, 2005 at 10:15 amBlue State Red
The prposal that came up for vote in the House was written by the Republicans and it was not the proposal written by Murtha. Of course, it was voted down. Get your facts straight before mouthing off nonsense.
You can't "cut and run" after the "mission accomplished". Bush publicaly stated that "mission accomplished". If that is true, then we should have left Iraq a long time ago. If it is not true, then Bush LIED to the American people.
Blue State Red - How may wars did you fight in? How many solders died in your arms? How many bullets did you have to dodge? Did you risk your life to save others? Or are you just another selfish, self centered Republican?
November 19th, 2005 at 10:18 amA brief history of some of Jack Murhta's recent war policy positions:
October 2002: Murtha voted for the Iraq war resolution - you know, the one that authorized President Bush to use all means necessary to remove SAddam Hussein because that has been US policy since 1998.
May 2004: A year after Saddam's defeat, and five months after his capture, Murtha calls for MORE troops to be deployed to Iraq.
October 2004: Murtha was one of only two House members to vote for Charlie Rangel's bill to reinstate the draft, despite the fact that Rangel himself voted againts his own bill.
November 2005: Not to be outdone by Rep. Rangel, Murtha voted against a resolution expressing his own "cut-and-run" proposal.
Murtha and Rangel are two peas in a pod: both decorated war veterans, both deserving of respect for their military service, and both cranky old guys with some really bad ideas. It's sad to see that time has passed them by.
November 19th, 2005 at 10:21 am#173
What makes you think that I'm not from Ohio? And if I'm not from Ohio, then I have no influence on what is placed on the Ohio ballets. I think you need to stop taking those "stupid pills" with your breakfast. Your moronic thinking is beginning to show.
November 19th, 2005 at 10:21 am"Mission Accomplished" Now let's get the hell out of there.
November 19th, 2005 at 10:23 amThe Left has been calling President Bush a liar - and worse - for five years now. But let a freshman GOP congresswoman repeat her constituent's opinion on the House floor and all hell breaks loose. Whatsamatta, Lefties, got a boo-boo on your egos & don't wanta play anymore?
November 19th, 2005 at 10:26 am[...] From Think Progress • • • [...]
November 19th, 2005 at 10:32 am[...] On the floor of the House, GOP Ohio Rep. Jean Schmidt, who last year almost lost a seat in one of Ohio’s most conservative districts to Iraq war veteran Paul Hackett, the Democrat who famously called George Bush a chickenhawk, lectured Murtha. [...]
November 19th, 2005 at 10:32 amOh yeah, those six Dems who voted “present†sure showed the rest of us how to take a principled stand on the war. They are worse than cowards; they’re pathetic.
PS: How many Dems does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
Answer: No one knows. Dems prefer darkness and lies to the light of truth!
Comment by Blue State Red
I've been saying that congressional democrats are treasonous liars, and unfit to hold office for years. I believe it, and have reams of evidence for it on my hard drive.
I hardly need to address the degree of stupidity ( or raw hatred of one's country) necessary to call for a timed pullout (6 months from now) from Iraq, that is John Murtha's plan. I don't have to talk about it here because I save my pearls for those who like me care about my country and the men we send to hell around the world to protect it. I save my breath for Americans, real Americans, people with an innate understanding of the price of freedom and the cost of allowing sluggards, slackers and traitors (like most of those that post here)to have a disproportionate voice in America.
We can have Democrats in leadership positions, or we can have the United States of America ... the one which has become the greatest civilization, and force for good, in all of history. We cannot have both.
November 19th, 2005 at 10:32 amCheck out this whacky whack-a-doo from Ohio
Radical Right-Wing Agenda
November 19th, 2005 at 10:33 amSchmidt causes ruckus in House debate on Iraq
By Malia Rulon
Enquirer Washington Bureau
WASHINGTON - U.S. Rep. Jean Schmidt drew boos and angry shouting from Democrats as she brought the U.S. House to a standstill Friday by...
ohio is a fine state with many fine people but this senator is out of line and a disgrace to her office and state.
November 19th, 2005 at 10:36 amOkay, try pay attention now:
First, President Bush never "publicaly stated that 'mission accomplished.' [sic]" Those words did, however, appear on a Naval banner when the President welcomed the USS Abraham Lincoln home from a tour of duty in Iraq. The Lincoln and its crew had posted a notable record of successful missions with very few, if any, casualties. So their mission was, indeed, accomplished. Got a problem with that?
Second, I never stated that it was Murtha's resolution. I said it was a resolution expressing his own 'cut-and-run' proposal." Which it was.
That makes you 0 for 2, pal. Just like your batting average in the last two election cycles.
November 19th, 2005 at 10:37 amOhioans - Do your duty to your country. Recall Jean Schmidt!
November 19th, 2005 at 10:39 am"On the floor of the House, GOP Ohio Rep. Jean Schmidt, who last year almost lost a seat in one of Ohio’s most conservative districts to Iraq war veteran Paul Hackett, the Democrat who famously called George Bush a chickenhawk, lectured Murtha."
Yeah, that "almost" kinda jumps out at you, doesn't it. Just like Al Gore and John Kerry "almost" beat George Bush - but then didn't. And just like the Dems "almost" gained seats in the House & Senate - but then didn't. And just like Tom Daschle "almost" beat John Thune - but then didn't . . .
I could go on. I could even mention how Max Cleland "almost" beat Saxby Chamblis - but then didn't. Of course, you probably already knew that. Or should I say "almost."
Paul Hackett, meanwhile, aspires to run for US Senate against Mike DeWine next November. Guess he's having a hard time finding a real job. I wonder if he'll show his true cojones and take a position on the Murtha cut-and-run plan.
November 19th, 2005 at 10:47 amCongressman Murtha is a true hero and patriot. He risked his life fighting in 2 wars. He didn't cut and run like Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Limbaugh, just to name a few cowards.
November 19th, 2005 at 10:48 amSchmidt is despicable rat weasel scum.
Murtha is an American hero.
Keep taking care of our troops.
Develop a sane plan and keep our interests safe.
God bless ya Congressman.
November 19th, 2005 at 10:48 amSOMEONE POST HER GODDAMNED CONTACT INFO SO HER AND I CAN FIGURE OUT WHO'S MORE OF A COWARD.
November 19th, 2005 at 10:52 amBlue State Red - did you serve in Iraq? Did you risk your life to save others? Have you seen solders die? Did you dodge bullets? If not, then you join the rest of the cut and run cowards that want others to do their fighting for them.
With all the trashing of anyone that speaks up against this administration and it's illegal war and it's financial raping of American, there is no freedom in American. Freedom respects others and allows other to state their opinions and not be labeled traitors. Traitors are people that out CIA agents which then threatens the security of the US and the rest of the world - Benedict Arnold and Scooter Libby come to mind.
November 19th, 2005 at 10:52 amHere's the real agenda:
Win the war
Confirm the judges
Cut the taxes
Control the spending
Control the border
Any politician - Democrat or Republican - who promises to stick to this agenda will win, hands down, next year.
November 19th, 2005 at 10:53 amYes Blue State Red the President said miltary operations were.....what? OVER? DONE? ACCOMPLISHED? what was that? REMIND US
when he stood in drag under the Mission Accomplished Banner? In miltary drag, GWBush, the cowardly liar.
God Bless and Save the USA! Get theses liars way fromour soldiers' lives
November 19th, 2005 at 10:56 amON YOUR KNEES, YOU GODDAMNED GOP WHORE-OF-THE-RIGHT.
November 19th, 2005 at 10:57 amI agree, someone needs to post her contact information so she can hear from real Americans . She is despicable and loathesome, and it amazes me that scum like that can achieve high places in our government. She and the rest of her kind need to be brought down.[include that Bush butt kissing Elizabeth Dole in that bring down, too}
November 19th, 2005 at 10:59 am#194 - I would love to piss on bush too. lol
Just heard the speach Bush gave in Korea. He states that we can't leave until we accomplish our mission. In May of 2003, he claimed "mission accomplished". Now he claims we still need to accomplish our mission. Which one is it? This is confusing. Did we or did we not accomplish our mission? There's a LIE here somewhere. Bush isn't being straight with the public. Nothing more than yackety yak. Only fools believe this president.
November 19th, 2005 at 11:03 amHERE'S AN INTERESTING LINK ABOUT THIS TYPICAL GODDAMNED GOP PIG WHORE NEOCON.... OH, YES, SHE PROVES HERSELF A RIGHT-WING 2-FACED LIAR..ANYTHING TO WHORE-UP VOTES:
http://www.hamiltoncountydems.org/schmidtgastaxrelease.pdf#search='Rep.%20Jean%20Schmidt'
November 19th, 2005 at 11:05 am"[D]id you serve in Iraq? Did you risk your life to save others? Have you seen solders die? Did you dodge bullets?"
I love how you anti-war lefties always fall back to the "did you serve?" ploy. You should know by now how dumb that is. First, you know nothing about my militray record - or my age, sex, religion or medical condition, for that matter - because, as an American, I'm not required to pass your arbitrary test to get permission to express my opinions. Second, if memory serves, the lottery and the transition began to an all-volunteer military began around 1972, and most Americans of military age since then have not served in the military. Third, we are all deeply indebted to those who have served and who do risk their lives in the global war on terror. Fourth, that is why, in this time of war - however much you may disagree with its beginnings - the only way to support the troops is to support their mission and their commander in chief.
Here's a word of advice: don't try to pretend that only certain elite opinions count. I'd be happy to have matters of war and peace decided only by elite military personnel, but that's not the way the Founding Fathers set things up. Be whatever you want to be, but be an American first.
November 19th, 2005 at 11:09 amPlease, Blue State Red. No more misdirection. Answer the questions posed in message #175. They are easy to understand and, therefore, easy to answer.
And no, time has not passed by those "cranky old guys," as you describe them in your message #176. Those cranky old guys have the wisdom and the experience to come to different conclusions than they once had. Most of us cranky old guys who are Vietnam-era veterans are that way. We are capable of complex thought, of changing our minds, of thinking for ourselves, not like automatons directed by thinking points issued from K Street and the White House.
Now then -- Answer the questions posed in message #173, or buzz off. Or would your answers reveal you as a thirty-something chickenhawk with no military experience having absolutely no standing to criticize?
Perhaps you might learn something of value were you to visit http://www.eurolegal.org/greendogdem/greendogdem.htm AFTER you answer those simple questions.
November 19th, 2005 at 11:11 amWhen Bush states that he had "bad intelligence", he's simply saying (in his stilted way) that he isn't very intelligent. It's time to oust him and his entire cabal of greedy malevolant fools. The economic consequences of their pigheaded foolishness will transform the US into a failed 3rd world state, with a few who are wealthy beyond all reason, and the rest of us in poverty. Then I guess they will impose permanent martial law, so they won't have to go to the trouble to rig any more elections...
November 19th, 2005 at 11:15 am"Yes Blue State Red the President said miltary operations were…..what? OVER? DONE? ACCOMPLISHED? what was that? REMIND US"
Actually, that was the speech on the USS Abraham Lincoln in which the President announced the end of "major combat operations." Not "Mission Accomplished." Not "No More Bad Guys" Not "Bring the Troops Home." And certainly not "Victory in the Global War on Terror." You lefties get way too excited about two words on a banner hung from the brindge of a returning aircraft carrier. What would you prefer, "I did not have sex with that womean"?
November 19th, 2005 at 11:15 amBlue state Red,
I agree we should win this thing and get out, but I am not sure what winning would be. OK, Um, Iraq being able to defend itself. However, what's next? Back to peactime, I don't think so. This is the beginning of a war that will just change names and locations. The bigger picture is "Peak Oil".
November 19th, 2005 at 11:16 amPoeple know better. This is the beginning of a much larger issue, a long string of oil wars, and maybe the "pull out" group wants to nip it in the bud now.
November 19th, 2005 at 11:19 amWHEN YOU START AN UNPROVOKED FIGHT, YOU USUALLY GET YOUR ASS KICKED!
November 19th, 2005 at 11:21 amask any redneck!
republicans are TRUE rednecks,lol.
Iran is next.
November 19th, 2005 at 11:23 amThis administration and all of its backers have been running from and hiding the truth for many years now . . . I guess that makes them cowards! It takes courage for someone to admit that they are doing the wrong thing, and I certainly don't see much of this in Congress nowadays
November 19th, 2005 at 11:27 amSyria,Iran,n.korea,China? venesuala, cuba?, the list gets longer and longer.
November 19th, 2005 at 11:27 amfreedom bubble getting to big, might pop soon!
November 19th, 2005 at 11:27 amBlue State Red,
I usually get no response from the Right on these issues (Peak oil). I think it's just too unmanagelble for the Right folks to think about what I said. And most are not ready to have the Peak Oil conversation. If Politicians and big business talk about it, the markets will go nuts. Continue the denial.
November 19th, 2005 at 11:34 amI seldom get involved in political discussions but after noting the disgusting display by a Congresswoman on the House floor attacking the integrity of Congressman Murtha, a decorated Marine veteran, I feel compelled to voice my humble opinion. What this courageous ex-Marine Congressman did by introducing a resolution to bring our troops home is something that should have been done long ago. Hopefully, by his act of courage the Democratic side of the Isle will be prodded to rise in mass and challenge the hypocritical policies of the right that are destroying our democracy. In my view, Congressman Murtha is an individual who truly cares about the democratic values we all cherish. Its my profound belief that by his recent display of leadership. he possesses the necessary bacground, know-how, and political qualifications to challenge our current White House Occupant. Serious consideration should be given to start a nation wide movement to seat this man in the White House Oval Office in 2008.
November 19th, 2005 at 11:36 am"I agree we should win this thing and get out, but I am not sure what winning would be."
You know, that is the first sane comment I have seen on this site for a long time. For once, someone is thinking about the future instead of fever swamp conspiracy theories about the past.
Look, all I know is that we have done this before, and we can do it again. We occupied Germany and rebuilt Europe, depite some pretty grim post-war conditions there. We occupied and rebuilt Japan. In both cases, we turned defeated enemies into democratic allies with market economies. We have had disagreements with those allies since then, but never anyhting close to a state of war.
There is no reason why the same cannot be true in Iraq. Was Saddam any more or less evil than Hitler? Is radical Islam any nore fanatical than the "kamikaze" warriors of Japan? Winning, I think, would be completing the process of helping the Iraqis govern themselves as a secure and democratic society. It probably means (1) the defeat of the terrorists' ability to affect Iraqi politics, and (2) the Iraqis having sufficient control of their own country that Muslim terrorists won't be able to kill other Muslims on a regular basis.
This would probably require some level of continuing terrorist violence, and it may involve some continuing level of US military presence. But it probably also means that we will have to stay until the duly elected governemnt of Iraq (with whom over 40 nations have quietly established diplomatic ties) asks us to leave.
November 19th, 2005 at 11:36 amWhat it all comes down to is this...As the country turned toward a right wing point of view, the country began its dark descent into the insanity of unwarranted war, economic collapse and ethical/moral disintigration all masked in "patriotic, family values" rhetoric designed to empower an administation that lives and breathes hypocracy and cruel self aggrandizment at the expense of "we the people" so brilliantly canonized by the founders of this country. Ignorant traitors all, the Republican "Majority" has insured the total demise of what was once a "Beacon of Light and Hope" to the world. May God damn you to the dust bin of history and assign you to the throne of glory in the bowels of Hell. Where Bush is God, all is lost.
November 19th, 2005 at 11:37 amRichard Wagner
Congresses Deception with Phony Bill
You people do realized what just happened here, right? The GOP leadership (Duncan Hunter and others) got together and devised a scheme to deceive the American pu...
November 19th, 2005 at 11:42 amWhat a completely STUPID, DUMB, INSANE, BITCH!!!!!!
November 19th, 2005 at 11:46 amHow dare she open her idiotic mouth and spout off shit like that?? Who does she think she is? Damn I can't believe we have fools like her representing us!!! Throw her out of office QUICKLY!!
This one could be a different animal from the past wars. It's about religion and oil this time. The past wars mentioned, we fought folks who believed in Christianity, and oil was not a factor. We really angered the entire Muslum world when we carved out Isreal. It is interpreted in the old testament that Palastine was there first.
November 19th, 2005 at 11:46 amI am not getting into professing religion, so lets not get off on that tangent. As long as we keep pissing off the Muslum world, they will be bent of terrorizing us. Winning in Iraq will perpetuate the overall issue.
the problem is Rich people have forgotten poor people, thats the msg in the bible.
November 19th, 2005 at 11:48 amfreedom to forget,neglect,notcare about, and in some cases "hate the poor" is in itseld"damnation".
I don,t Damn the rich, but, I certainly do NOT damn the poor.
to build up this free capitalization around us is not helping matters, its hurting US AND others.
"This is the beginning of a war that will just change names and locations. The bigger picture is “Peak Oilâ€."
Maybe I spoke too soon. Look, there is only one problem with the Peak Oil theory - it is a static, rather than dynamic, theory of technology and economics. Its premise is that the world's oil based economies will begin to collapse during the next 20 years or so, thus creating increased incentives for strong nations, like the US and China, to secure new energy sources via warfare.
Western economies always have faced such technological challenges. Without exception, successful economies are those whose dynamics permit the greatest amount of technological innovation and change. Even as we speak (er, type?) new fuel technologies are coming online in every sector of the US economy. Eventually market forces will identify the most cost effective energy alternatives, and we will rely less and less on old technologies like oil.
In the meantime, though, wouldn't it make sense to drill in ANWR and the continental shelf?
November 19th, 2005 at 11:52 amThe civilian hierarchy in America are the cowards! The executive branch and those neocons are the cowards! The troops themselves are heroes and always will be! Bringing them home is the only choice of support. Staying the course is just blind faith in the cowards! Do not let history repeat itself! We stayed the course in vietnam until 56k+ were dead! Want to see more heroes DEAD? In 2008 America must change regimes too! Must burn all electronic voting machines before then. I do not give a sh%t if it takes a month or 2 to count the votes, just that they are counted correctly and fairly and the paper trail can be verified! And think outside the box people! The DNC and GOP must go! We are not chained to these parties! I am keeping an eye on the USA Patriot party that is emerging, You should too! Oh and STOP living the lie of 9/11 as that is what started this mess we are in! The truth of that day is buried and shovels are being used to dig it up! Keep digging! The truth shall set us free!
November 19th, 2005 at 11:55 amLook, Here is the Sign. in plain black and white, if you cannot understand this then we are doomed!
15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
November 19th, 2005 at 11:57 am16 ¶ And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Blue State Red- Be careful, we may vote you into office if you keep up this lucid-backbone-sanity thing you've got going.....although it would be fun to watch the lefty meltdown when you were elected.....
November 19th, 2005 at 11:58 amThis type of tecnological problem at this magnatude has never been dealt with. The transition to alternative energy for 5-9 billion people will take decades. The current alternative energy is not even making a dent. If it was, it would be snuffed out.
ANWR has an estimated 300 million barrels of oil. We use 9 million a day. Assuming the damand will not increase, which would be conservative, that supply will last 33.3 days. Assuming technology will just take care of it, is just a form of denial in my opinion. I gues we will see.
November 19th, 2005 at 11:58 am"It’s about religion and oil this time. The past wars mentioned, we fought folks who believed in Christianity, and oil was not a factor."
You lost me there. We most certainly did fight non-Christians in World War II. We called them the Japanese. And oil was very much part of the issue. The Japs attacked us in part because we embargoed certain kinds of war materiel, including oil.
BTW, if you don't want to bring religion into the discussion, I suggest you stop mentioning it. The Old Testament does not state that Palestine existed before Israel, and the creation of modern Israel is a fact of history, whether you like it or not. How about we just focus on defeating the people who are trying to kill us, okay?
November 19th, 2005 at 11:59 amBlue State Red,
You sound like the voice of the older generation. From the 50's where the mentality is we can solve all problems, control everything. The military in the 50's though it could control hurricanes, and tried to do it.
November 19th, 2005 at 12:00 pm221, agreed.
November 19th, 2005 at 12:01 pmStep one: Dump the Republicans Step two: Rebuild our education system Step three: Create an atmosphere of tolerance in our society Step four: understand that toture and war are no longer viable options for the USA being in this world as leaders or major political players. Step five: Reform and reclaim the MSM. Step six: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you Step seven: Step one
Richard Wagner
November 19th, 2005 at 12:03 pmScottsdale Az
[We know, cowards have girls do their talking for them.
Comment by SpudgeBoy — November 18, 2005 @ 6:51 pm ]
Yeah, Shrub does it all the time. He sends his Stepford Wife out to stick up for him when he gets a sound thrashing in the real world.
November 19th, 2005 at 12:05 pmFocusing on people who are trying to kill us will be a constant focus, long after Iraq, due to arragance, and poor policy.
November 19th, 2005 at 12:05 pmHow do whe know the rest of the world is wanting Demacracy as much as we do? Is that an arrogant assumption, or a proven fact?
November 19th, 2005 at 12:08 pm"This type of tecnological problem at this magnatude has never been dealt with."
Okay, then explain to me how we went from horse drawn buggies to the internal combustion engine? How did we go from training soldiers with mock wooden rifles in 1940 to dropping two atomic bombs in 1945? How did we manage to put a man on the moon in less than 10 years?
There have been all kinds of rapid shifts in virtually every technology known to man. Nothing ever remains the same, and any theory based on stasis, rather than dynamism, is doomed to fail and be forgotten.
November 19th, 2005 at 12:08 pmThis Bimbette insults a decorated American war veteran who risked his life while the present Commander in Chief spent his Vietnam-era time either willing vodka in bars or defending the friendly skies of Alabama from a sneak Vietnamese attack and while the vice-president had other prioroites as if those who served, werfe wounded and those who died did not.
Neither Amerivcans in general nor Ohioans in particular are well served by Ms. Schmidt. Who voted for her?
November 19th, 2005 at 12:08 pm[In the meantime, though, wouldn’t it make sense to drill in ANWR and the continental shelf?]
No, it doesn't. Why waste time and energy in squeezing out the last few drops of oil in the world? Hell, that oil would likely be sold on the foreign markets anyways. We would have to buy it back at inflated prices.
The oil barrons in this nation aren't here to do any of us a solid favor by making oil cheap and affordable. They're here to make a record profit and thumb their noses at the plight of the average citizen.
We need to start developing, in earnest, a replenishable and reasonable alternative to fossil fuels that can motivate a car, truck, van, etc before the we get caught with out pants down.
November 19th, 2005 at 12:09 pm[#How do whe know the rest of the world is wanting Demacracy as much as we do? Is that an arrogant assumption, or a proven fact?
Comment by For Truth — November 19, 2005 @ 12:08 pm]
They don't. Even in Iraq they have created a Constitution based on religious and not secular laws. Iraq was one of the few relatively stable, secular Middle East regimes. Now, people will get stoned to death for selling the 'wrong' kinds of books, women will be killed because they won't wear veils by their own fundie neocons in Iraq. Hell, even Israel, the so-called bastion of 'democracy' in the Middle East, is about as democratic as Saudi Arabia when it comes to Palestinians.
Democracy does not flow from the barrell of a gun. It flows from the will of the people.
November 19th, 2005 at 12:13 pm[#How do whe know the rest of the world is wanting Demacracy as much as we do? Is that an arrogant assumption, or a proven fact?
Comment by For Truth — November 19, 2005 @ 12:08 pm]
It is an arrogant assumption. It is like politicians and military leaders during the Cold War thinking that deep inside every Commie, there ws an American dying to get out.
With dying being the operative word, mind you...
November 19th, 2005 at 12:15 pmGreat job, Ohio! You could have Hackett as your representative and you chose this piece of shit.
November 19th, 2005 at 12:15 pmYou,re wrong Mike.
November 19th, 2005 at 12:16 pmDemocracy does flow from the barrell of a gun.
ever hear the phrase"Live free OR DIE?"
#85 & 87
It's all good. I understand why you would be raving mad. I am glad to here you daughter made it home safley. I have a 17 year old daughter and I fear for what the future holds ofr her. I doubt she would ever join the military, as she is the type who gets freaked out over fireworks. But, with the fact that recruitment is down (not because of San Francisco) so low, the only way to sustain this illegal war is to start the draft.
November 19th, 2005 at 12:19 pm#228,
It was all done with "Powered by Oil". Without Oil, none of it could be done.
November 19th, 2005 at 12:21 pmthe only way to sustain this illegal war is to start the draft.
November 19th, 2005 at 12:22 pmI wonder how far that draft might go. would females be draftable?
Are inmates draftable, There sure are alot of them these days.
November 19th, 2005 at 12:26 pmanyone know how many inmates are in america?
I wonder what the percentage of inmates are republicans vs democrats?
November 19th, 2005 at 12:27 pm#228,
Your stuck in the industrial revolution, which happened due to oil. The industrial revolution is waning now. What type of major advancements have been made in a short period of time since the 60's, (the computer was already invented then). At the rate advances were going during the height of the industrial revolution, we should be far more advanced, than we are now. Nothing major in the last 40 years, it's stagnant.
November 19th, 2005 at 12:30 pmI mean, Can you FORCE Inmates to fight for your freedoms?(they lost theirs, why would they care about yours or mine?).
November 19th, 2005 at 12:30 pmthey might even turn against us.
what do you think?
#238,
The US has the second largest inmate population in the World, not including the overseas prisons. Only one other developed country has the death penalty, and we are supposedly the the most developed country.
November 19th, 2005 at 12:32 pmThat is scary when you take the entire population in consideration.
November 19th, 2005 at 12:35 pmamerican population is only like 300 million, isnt it?
i wonder what Chinas Inmate population is. they do have a 1.3 Billion population, and India , 1 billion. what are their inmate population like
Watching the confrontation in the house yesterday helped me realize in greater detail, how deeply divided our country is and how fundamentally unhealthy our republican fellow citizens are. Mentally and morally bankrupt, and out of touch with reality. Loud mouthed, vindictive, dishonest, self centered power mongers hell bent on bringing this country to its will at all costs. I was blaming it all on Bush, but his lackies are as much to blame as him. Change the world in 2006...vote the bastards out. Shut them up and lock them up. Impeach in 2007! All of them.
Richard Wagner
November 19th, 2005 at 12:40 pmScottsdale
The Right wingers, usually don't respond to me, and when they do, like Blue State Red, they eventually stop commenting. I think I have made the point.
November 19th, 2005 at 12:40 pmBush to push religious freedom in China
November 19th, 2005 at 12:41 pmimagine 1.3 billion people freed. to travel. to seek riches,fame,happiness,
i can see it allready, nearly 1.3 billion asian americans living in the U.S.A.
P.S. alot of them do allready.
#244,
I bet it won't be long until our congress lowers themselves to fighting, like we have seen with other countries. We always were better than that, but it will be a sign of the backward slide we are in.
November 19th, 2005 at 12:42 pmYesterday I stood at Arlington National Cemetery attending the funeral of a young marine in my district. He believed in what we were doing is the right thing and had the courage to lay his life on the line to do it.
She gets me when she says "He believed"
November 19th, 2005 at 12:47 pmI wonder if She remembered Pat Tillman.
Or, did she FORGET HIM Allready?
November 19th, 2005 at 12:49 pmsome should send her and ask her if she forgot Him allready.
Jean, as Jane Hamsher of Firedoglake said, is full of "schmidt."
No marine called that bitch/witch. The words she attributed to the marine is the tired, hackneyed Republican talking points she kept repeating ad nauseum during her campaign.
November 19th, 2005 at 12:49 pm#248,
Is this woman psychic, or did she interview him. How does she know what he truly believed.
November 19th, 2005 at 12:50 pmOops, forgot to post, the tired meme was "stay the course, stay the course, stay the course, stay the course, stay the course, stay the course, stay the course, stay the course, stay the course, stay the course."
November 19th, 2005 at 12:50 pm#241 That works pretty well in old Hollywood movies, but I'm not sure how practical it would be in real life.
November 19th, 2005 at 12:53 pm"Blue State Red", the problem with your comparison of Iraq to post-WWII Germany and Japan is that, in both countries, the fighting ended with the surrender of both governments in formal peace treaties. There has been no formal surrender in Iraq. Dubya and his cronies never declared war ON Iraq--the focus of the war was a PERSONAL war against Saddam. (All of the Saddam-era government were killed, captured or fled the country, so there was no legal authority to sign a peace treaty; the post-Saddam government that formed could not legally sign a peace treaty since war was not waged against it.) Following Hitler's suicide, the remnants of his military leadership designated themselves to be the official German government and agreed to the peace treaty imposed on the country, and after the US dropped two atomic bombs on Japan, that led to the Japanese government's surrender (MacArthur was the driving force that allowed Hirohito to remain on the throne, largely to avoid a potential rebellion by the Japanese people).
November 19th, 2005 at 12:55 pmAlso, the US realized that without assisting Germany in repairing its economy could easily lead to serious political problems in the very near term (one should note that Hitler's rise to power in Germany came about largely because of the severely depressed German economy brought about by the harsh post-Versailles Treaty reparation terms combined with the worldwide Depression), and part of the political aspect was the rapid sweep of Communism in the Soviet-liberated Eastern Europe. The Japanese economy also played a significant part in that country's belligerence in East Asia (the Japanese home islands are severely lacking in terms of mineral wealth, including oil).
Now, you're also forgetting that under Saddam, Iraq was surprisingly free of terrorists (aside from anti-Saddam rebel groups, many of which received financial support from the US). The United States, because of DUBYA'S war, is responsible for any and all terrorist activities in Iraq at this time. Dubya is solely responsible for the conditions that led to al-Qaeda members, supporters and sympathizers taking advantage of the situation in Iraq. As for your absurd comment about "Iraqis having sufficient control of their own country that Muslim terrorists won’t be able to kill other Muslims on a regular basis", well, that simply shows your complete and total lack of knowledge of that country's history. The Kurds don't consider themselves "Iraqis"--that's why they've been trying to gain autonomy for the Northern Kurdish provinces. The Sunnis and Shi'ites have been fighting each other for more than 1000 years (that was a large component to the Iran-Iraq Gulf War of the 1980s and why so many Sunni Arab states--like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Egypt--sent financial aid to Saddam). It was Shi'ites who were responsible for a 1979 attack on holy places in Mecca, incited by Khomeini's Islamic Revolution in Iran and trying to launch a worldwide Islamic rebellion against the US and Israel (the American Embassy in Pakistan was attacked when early reports out of Saudi Arabia suggested that the CIA had infiltrated a group of hajj pilgrims). The Sunni and Shi'a sects have maintained a fairly uneasy truce (much like Catholics and Protestants) with only a few serious all-out sectarian wars.
If you truly believe that Iraq can ever have a "secure and democratic society", you're sadly mistaken. Iraq exists solely as an artificial creation of World War I when several provinces of the old Ottoman Empire were brought under a single authority in Baghdad by the British. While the provinces had co-existed under Ottoman control, that was because all were under the same level of authority. After the British established their mandate over the area, they literally imported a new leader, Faisal, for the country, even arranging to stage a plebiscite to "legitimize" the new king. Faisal had served in the Ottoman parliament as a representative of Jeddah--in modern Saudi Arabia--and was even made King of Syria for about two months, before he was expelled and moved to Britain. But his entire monarchy was formulated solely to help the British stem a tide of unrest, initiated by a fatwa issued by the grand mujtahid of Karbala which declared that it was wrong for Muslims to be governed by non-Muslims. Interestingly, the insurgency that began against the British was comprised of Shi'ites and Sunnis, united against a common enemy. Only after the British used the Royal Air Force to bomb the country were they able to regain control, and set into motion the events that led to Faisal's kingship. (Of course, it should be noted that a very large part of Britain's interest involved oil. Kind of brings up a parallel, doesn't it?)
I find it interesting that you mention that we will probably stay "until the duly elected government of Iraq asks us to leave". Do you honestly think that the current administration will give the Iraqi government any say in the matter?
These republicans sure have SHORT memories, don,t you think?
November 19th, 2005 at 12:55 pm#254,
Thank you,
You have eliquently put what I was trying to say that this war was a different animal. WWII had an actual front line, rules of war were followed, there were formalities, etc.
November 19th, 2005 at 12:58 pmWWII followed our mentality and our line of thinking. There will never be another "Gentlemen's War". And all these Repubs live in that time frame of greatness, and can't deal with change.
November 19th, 2005 at 1:00 pmdust is the next big thing ...do we have a vaccine for it?
If you havent fought in Iraq or afganistan you dont have a stake in the game. Cowards make laws that kill innocent people, for oil. not for democracy.
so shut up and sit down.
if you dont birth babies you dont have a say in a womans reproductive ways.
so shut up and sit down.
jesus isnt comming back until all you republiczealots
SHUT it up AND SIT DOWN.
or in the words of napoleon dynamite:
IDIOTS!
November 19th, 2005 at 1:00 pmSo, post #254, are you saying that the Iraqis and middle east have been fighting LONG BEFORE Christopher Columbus even Discovered America?
November 19th, 2005 at 1:01 pmallright, who ate the capt. crunch?lol
November 19th, 2005 at 1:02 pm259,
Hell yes, this stuff goes back thousands of years. The Egyption Pharohs oppressed Isreal, the near and mideast had several periods of war long ago. All the good Christians who read the Bible should know this.
November 19th, 2005 at 1:05 pmHeHe, Just adding to the real conversation.lol
November 19th, 2005 at 1:07 pmI don't see a UNIFORM on you, bitch!
November 19th, 2005 at 1:07 pmIt's interesting that all the good conservatives who know the Bible, don't connect the dots and see that fighting in the Middle East has never ended, it goes way back, it's deep in the people, they never forget, it's a part of their existence. A totally different animal than ever before.
November 19th, 2005 at 1:08 pmyea, like the time of the great flood.
November 19th, 2005 at 1:12 pmnow thats a story.
did you know that the great flood actually DID take place?
its proven that seashells could not have made it on dry land unless of course there actually was a great flood.
i too, think she is a raging bitch!!!! she is probably going through post menstrual symptoms! she is so evil like the rest of the republicans! we need a new congress minus republicans!!!
November 19th, 2005 at 1:13 pmunless somebody was trying to pull our leg and went around planting the seashells all over the entire world on dry land.
November 19th, 2005 at 1:13 pmyou know, i bet there were wars even BEFORE the great Flood.
November 19th, 2005 at 1:16 pmShe does have perty mouth, opens wide.
November 19th, 2005 at 1:17 pmmore like a hole in a tree stump.
November 19th, 2005 at 1:18 pmOnce again the Repubs are banking on the likelihood that both the public and the MSM will not pay attention to detail because it takes too much time. They know that Murtha's proposal is not cut and run. I watched his press conference the other night (on C-Span)at which time he explained his proposal. He spoke of keeping troops in the region and maintaining the capability to strike inside Iraq when it was militarily and politically prudent. He spoke of attaining this goal in six months at the earliest. He also indicated that the military goals when we entered Iraq were to eliminate WMD's and to oust Saddam. Both of those military goals have been achieved. He suggested that the next steps in Iraq require political and diplomatic solutions. He believes that the military has done all it can do.He agonized over the fact that our soldiers are now mere "targets" and should be taken out of harms way. Since the administration and the RW Repubs have no satisfactory response to Murtha, they create an illusory proposal, falsely label it as Murtha's policy and vote it down all the while hoping we don't notice because we are too busy to figure it out on our own and betting the MSM will echo their phony talking points. We cannot let them get away with this. Hopefully our people will appear on the nes and "talking head shows" and explain the truth. Given recent performances that is a tall order. We can only hope.
November 19th, 2005 at 1:19 pmGuess this little neocon whore will be out of a job.
Slam the little whore with e-mails. Tell her that chickenhawk traitors like her have no place in our society.
November 19th, 2005 at 1:25 pmI bet this place is america. alot of people say its not. but i dont think such an earthquake has happened yet, what do you think?
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
November 19th, 2005 at 1:31 pm17 ¶ And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.
do we not allready blasphem God?
November 19th, 2005 at 1:33 pmIsn't ironic our president travels the world over promoting democracy....freedom of speech is part of democracy BUT in the United States. When anyone questions what the administration is doing they are smeared by the administration....The vice president advocates torture. the U.S. now ignores treaties that have been signed. the president thinks all countries must follow his concept of democracy..Maybe the people in other countries want to choose the way they are govern--democratic concept?..Talk to anyone who has traveled outside the U.S. and they can tell you how much the peoples of the world respect the U.S .
November 19th, 2005 at 1:40 pmThink Prgoress where is the thread about the debates last night? Comeon already, the Democrats freaking walking all ove the Republicans.
The Republicans kept trying to make it seem like the House was debating Rep Murtha’s resolution. Until finally the chair stood up and said “Mr. Speaker, are we debating the Hunter resolution or the Murtha resolution?†First the speaker replied back with “We are debating resolution 571.†the democratic chair then asked “Is resolution 571 Mr Hunters resolution or is it Mr Murtha’s resolution?†to which the Speaker replied “Mr Hunter’sâ€
You see the republicans want the world to think that Mr Murtha wants to “cut and run†Rep Murtha had to repeat himself a couple of times that his resolution did not call for imediate withdrawl and that it in fact called for redeployment.
It was Rep Hunter that put forth a vote on his own resolution to “cut and runâ€
So, the republicans put forth a resolution to “cut and run†in which they planned to vote down their own resolution making everybody think that they had just voted down Rep Murtha’s resolution.
The republicans thought that all of the democrats would vote for “cut and runâ€
To their shock, the democrats voted it down also.
So, any republican that says that democrats wnat to “cut and run†have just lost that talking point.
But, on the flip side watch for this to come from the republicans “Well, the democrats voted to keep our troops in Iraqâ€
November 19th, 2005 at 1:43 pmJEAN TWO, Bushie is talking about Saudi democracy. He isn't an American and has no clue as to what American democracy looks like.
He's a hand holding gay man who wears robes when behind closed doors.
He shares his bed with Karl Rove. Rove is the "man" in the relationship.
November 19th, 2005 at 1:44 pmif you were a king kong and i met you, i,d respect you in a way that you wouldn,t kill me.
November 19th, 2005 at 1:47 pmnow if i was king kong,(like bush thinks he is) I would DEMAND Respect.
November 19th, 2005 at 1:51 pmbut for a midget thinking hes king kong going arould demanding respect, people tend to laugh it off as a little dog (big bark, little bite).
but, the smaller they are the more venomuos they are,, be carefull of the little dog.
If Ted Kennedy can call Bush a liar in congress, why can't Schmidt call Murtha a coward?
November 19th, 2005 at 1:57 pmCan you say CRUNT?
November 19th, 2005 at 1:59 pmThere's actually more, though it was hard to hear with all the yelling...
SCHMIDT: ...cowards cut and run, Marines never do. Danny and the rest of America and the world want the assurance from this body – that we will see this through [...I'll get you my pretty and your little dog too].
November 19th, 2005 at 2:09 pm#280
Because Bush Lied and Murtha is NO coward, IDIOT!
That was too EASY!
November 19th, 2005 at 2:12 pm"Because Bush Lied and Murtha is NO coward, IDIOT!"
I think both items are up for debate. Why is it you result to name calling when you can't present an intelligent argument? So much for Democrates supporting free speech and the exchange of ideas.
November 19th, 2005 at 2:30 pmanymore dumb remarks?
November 19th, 2005 at 2:31 pmLemme see if I got the Republican Creed of Honor, Patriotism and Bravery right. You start an illegal bloody, and disasterous war. Although you yourself and the majority of your administration have never been to war and in fact avoided service in Vietnam, you shamelessly expect other people to fight in it and die in it. You and your supporters smear those who oppose the war as cowards and traitors although none of your oh so vocal supporters, their children, or your own children make the least move to join the military to fight in the war you say is so necessary that American soldiers need to continue dying in it. Now that's Valor for you!
November 19th, 2005 at 2:33 pm#283
Heh hehe heh ehehheh
#284
"I think both items are up for debate."
You would be one of the few people in the world right now that believes that.
November 19th, 2005 at 2:35 pmwhen you can’t present an intelligent argument?
November 19th, 2005 at 2:40 pmWith WHO? YOU?lol.
like I said, Too Easy.
November 19th, 2005 at 2:41 pm#284. Can you read?
November 19th, 2005 at 2:43 pmMay I suggest that you start at the Top, and KEEP reading Until you get to the very END WITHOUT COMMENTING, until you HAVE read all of it!
I think the republicans should listen to the kool aid left and start negotiating with the people who dismember children with explosives.....ya know, I'm sure that sounds better at a progressive cell meeting after a couple of bongs.....
November 19th, 2005 at 2:53 pmYes #291. We have dismembered children with our bombs, and have burned them alive with white phosphorous.
November 19th, 2005 at 2:56 pmBongs aside what is your point moron?
#291
After what happened to the republicans last night on the House floor. I don't think anybody here, maybe anywhere, is going to take your retards seriously. You guys were made to look like imbiciles on International TV.
Better go check out those videos before you come here acting stupid.
November 19th, 2005 at 3:02 pmby the way , if you find any of my comments educating, you may cut and paste them.
November 19th, 2005 at 3:18 pmthey are FREE.
Here is a link to her site. You can send her messages through it.
http://www.house.gov/schmidt/
November 19th, 2005 at 3:25 pm#295
November 19th, 2005 at 3:30 pmThank You.
► WOW, Yet another Republican, Conservative SCUMBAG CHICKENHAWK.
November 19th, 2005 at 3:36 pmThis only helps to divide America more and more... 60's here we come... We should send that fvcking conservative bitch out to Iraq and watch her sh|t herself. What a complete unAmerican idiot she is.
BTW, great picture... it really "captures" her... hahhaha....
November 19th, 2005 at 3:37 pmhttp://iamtv.tv
over 400,000 Iraqi dead over 2000 american dead how many more people do America have to kill to achieves Mister Bush and cheney war mongering apotite.
November 19th, 2005 at 3:42 pmDemocrat and republicans alike HAND IS A FULL OF BLLOD OF INNOCENT PEOPLE
sandrakae, do you know what zip code her district is in?
She won't accept comments from folks outside her district.
Would appreciate the proper zip code, thanks.
November 19th, 2005 at 3:42 pmzipcode is on her site. not sure of postal code though.
November 19th, 2005 at 3:51 pmWashington, D.C. Office
238 Cannon HOB
Washington, DC 20515-3502
(202) 225-3164
Please allow 2-3 weeks for the processing of any mail sent to our Capitol Office to allow for the security and screening process. We appreciate your mail and want you to know that it is being dealt with as quickly as is safely possible.
Cincinnati Office
8044 Montgomery Rd. Suite 540
Cincinnati, OH 45236
(513)791-0381
(800)784-6366 Toll Free
November 19th, 2005 at 3:54 pmPortsmouth Office
601 Chillicothe St.
Portsmouth, OH 45662
(740)354-1440
What a Joke, Please allow 2-3weeks to allow screening.
November 19th, 2005 at 3:56 pmLOL! The Democrats are too cowardly to go on record withdrawing the troops!!!
The left has truly lost it. Looks like Jean Schmidt learned a thing or two running against that god awful mouthpiece Paul Hackett..
November 19th, 2005 at 4:11 pmDEMOCRATS ARE SPINELESS WIMPS who want it both ways on Iraq. You're not getting it - and don't you forget. If you call Bush a liar, you're a traitor.
HIT BACK AND HIT BACK HARD. This was a great week for Republicans.
November 19th, 2005 at 4:13 pmSusan - put that hoagie down. You have work to do. The GOP is making a comeback and we're bring the sledgehammers. You pigs have met your match - Jean Schmidt.
November 19th, 2005 at 4:22 pmBushie is a liar. Those who support him are liars.
RealFather, you need a nine digit zip code so I gave up.
I'll call the whore on Monday.
November 19th, 2005 at 4:26 pmA comeback? Bahahaha, you work in the financial industry NED - dead in the head? You really should look up the meaning of 'trendline' sometime - clearly whoever has employeed you has overpaid!
Republicans are trending to oblivion!
November 19th, 2005 at 4:28 pmNED HAVE YOU READ THIS ARTICLE?
November 09, 2005
The Advocate
On September 29, 2005, shortly after 8 p.m., Amal Kadhum Swadi, and her
youngest son Safa were arrested by U.S. forces in the Ghazaliya district
of Baghdad on suspicion of planting an improvised explosive device.
They were just leaving their Baghdad home with other family members, and
had opened their garage door to take out the family car, when the Swadi
family were swarmed by multiple Humvees and numerous heavily armed U.S.
Soldiers with weapons drawn.
Haloed by headlights and surrounded by agitated soldiers, mother and son
were separated from each other and hidden from view of other family
members behind a wall of troops and humvees. They were blindfolded and
handcuffed tightly with the plastic zap straps and hoods that have
become potent symbols of the dehumanization Iraqis under occupation.
Ms. Swadi and Safa were made to squat on the highway’s dirt embankment
while Zaid, her eldest son, was issued a handwritten receipt for his
mother and brother. As Zaid yelled into the crowd of soldiers, trying to
get response from his mother, Ms. Swadi and Safa were being packed into
humvees for the trip to the Airport Detention Facility
for further processing,
leaving Zaid in a cloud of dust, clutching his receipt and trying to
console his sobbing sister.
I first met Amal Swadi
in Istanbul,
at the culminating session of The World Tribunal on Iraq
. Ms. Swadi was part of the Iraqi
delegation invited to give testimony on their experiences of occupation;
as a lawyer representing women held in Abu Ghraib and other U.S. and
British detention facilities in Iraq, Ms. Swadi was there to speak on
the degenerating state of human rights.
As I found out, Ms. Swadi
is no stranger to the occupation, or the media
covering it. As a lawyer willing to take on the mass of occupation, she
is well known for her outspoken advocacy for those unfortunates caught
in the machinery of occupation.
Amal Swadi is 52, and was accompanied to the Istanbul tribunal by her
daughter, and eldest son Zaid, who is also a lawyer. At the events
opening party, I was presented to Ms. Swadi and Zaid, whose love and
respect for his mother were instantly apparent. He studied me closely as
I was introduced, and when I put my hand out to shake his mother’s, he
smiled and took it warmly.
Ms. Swadi, a humble religious woman, immediately forgave my lack of
understanding of Islamic culture, and after a short conversation, agreed
to be interviewed (the video of this interview will be available shortly).
Ms. Swadi’s involvement with investigations into female prisoners of the
occupation started when she was told about a message the women detained
in Abu Ghraib were trying to get to the resistance. The message, which
had become public knowledge in the streets of Bagdad, was begging the
resistance to attack Abu Ghraib with rockets, as the women held inside
had given up hope, and could no longer bare the gross abuses and torture
inflicted upon them daily. In Islam, as in Christianity, suicide is
regarded as an ultimate sin, so these women were asking to be killed.
Since then, Ms. Swadi has tirelessly worked for the recognition and
release of these detainees (at the time I met her, she was representing
nine of these shadow women).
Ms. Swadi told me of her visits to Abu Ghraib, and the difficulties she
experienced in trying to gain access to the women held inside, including
U.S. force’s outright denial of the women’s existence. When attempts to
intimidate her did not work, dismissive guardsmen simply turned her
away. When Ms. Swadi returned to Abu Ghraib for her second visit, she
was accompanied by a determination cast in the previous sleepless night.
Her resolve was eventually rewarded, and after waiting all day in one of
the compound’s courtyards under the desert sun, without water or food,
she was finally allowed access to her clients (six in total). Ms. Swadi
told me the emotion of the experience was overwhelming, and she broke
down and sobbed along with the first detainee presented.
Detainees were presented to her in a small, dark cement room that looked
to be set up for interrogations. The women were escorted into the room
through a heavy door behind a chair and desk. The guards accompanying
her remained inches from these broken souls throughout the visits (it is
referred to as being ‘in control’ of their subject).
The first woman detainee presented was a young woman in her 20’s. She
was in poor condition, pale and gaunt, barely able to stand, and looked
to be suffering from mental collapse. The woman stared at the floor, and
when she did finally look up and see her visitor from the outside world,
the two broke down.
During her brief interview, hindered not only by the woman’s captors who
hovered only inches away at all times, but also by the woman’s fragile,
quivering voice, Ms. Swadi learned how this woman’s young son and
brother were killed in front of her during a raid on her home conducted
by U.S. forces. She carried a crudely stitched wound the length of her
forearm, which came from the bayonet of a soldier involved in the raid.
Since her arrest, the woman had been held naked in a small cement cell,
without proper bedding or toilet. The woman spoke of rape and torture at
the hands of her American and Iraqi captors. With Congress being
presented with the images of Iraqi women forced to bare themselves as
U.S. soldiers held guns to their heads, and with the Pentagon’s own
acknowledgment of rape in their detention facilities, it is not hard to
give credence to Ms. Swadi’s claims.
General Antonio Taguba
, appointed
to head the Pentagon’s investigation into Abu Ghraib torture and abuse
allegations (which was restricted to investigation into members of the
800th Military Police Brigade ),
acknowledged that U.S. soldiers participated in rape at the prison. This
acknowledgment came in the form of an inter-Pentagon memo in which
General Taguba referred to images of American guards ‘having sex’ with
female Iraqi detainees.
Mr. Taguba’s choice of language when referring to rape is revealing, and
further clarifies the Pentagon’s desensitized, casual attitude towards
these crimes.
These images clearly depict violent sex crimes
, with
one congressman who was given access to these images collected by the
Pentagon, stating that he believes the release will spark massive
demonstrations and endanger Americans abroad
(hardly the image of ‘consensual sex’ alluded to by Taguba).
General Taguba also reported that U.S. soldiers made videos of these
violent sex crimes
, a
common practice amongst sex offenders, who often take trophies from
their crimes to help them relive the event later; it is a practice that
has aided greatly in prosecuting these offenders and will hopefully do
the same in these cases. General Taguba has also acknowledged at least
two pregnancies resulting from these sex crimes involving female
detainees in Abu Ghraib.
With a recent attempt by the Senate to ban the Pentagon’s use of
torture, and President Bush’s response of threatened veto of this bill,
along with White House negotiations
to exempt the CIA
from any restraint with regards to torture, the image of a systematic
use of torture
becomes
illuminated. For those already aware of the Phoenix Operation
and the CIA’s past
publication of torture manuals, this comes as no surprise.
On January 27, 1997, Baltimore Sun journalists Gary Cohn
, Ginger
Thompson
,
and Mark Matthews ran a story in their paper under the headline “Torture
was taught by CIAâ€. The reporters relied heavily on two manuals printed
by the CIA, and released under pressure from the Sun’s 1994 freedom of
information challenge. The first manual, entitled KUBARAK
Counterintelligence Interrogation- July 1963, along with the updated
Human Resources Exploitation Training Manual-1983 Human Resources
Exploitation Training Manual-1983
, paint a
picture of decades of CIA torture policy.
Although the Pentagon has maintained that these manuals were created
only for educational purposes, in order to help U.S. troops identify
torture facilities, the manuals themselves refute this position.
The 1963 manual states in the section entitled The Coercive
Counterintelligence Interrogation of Resistant Sources that “drugs (and
the other aids discussed in this section) should not be used
persistently to facilitate the interrogative debriefing that follows
capitulation. Their function is to cause capitulation, to aid in the
shift from resistance to cooperation. Once this shift has been
accomplished, coercive techniques should be abandoned both for moral
reasons and because they are unnecessary and even counter-productive.â€
The 1963 version also deals with the layout of ‘interrogation’
facilities, as noted in the Sun’s article. The manual states: “the
electric current should be known in advance, so that transformers or
other modifying devices will be on hand if needed.â€
It is important to note that the updated 1983 manual first came to light
publicly when it was recovered by resistance forces in Guatemala
, who recovered it
from U.S. backed military death squads in that country, who acquired
this manual from the CIA School of the Americas
training camp in Fort Benning, Georgia. It is
also important to note that the U.S. embassy in neighboring Honduras has
been generally accepted as the headquarters of CIA operations in Central
America, with John Negroponte
acting as ambassador
during the bloody 1980’s (the same Negroponte
apointed
ambassador to Iraq when torture policy in Iraq first came to light).
These two manuals, and the visage of years of torture policy in Vietnam
under the watchful eyes of the CIA, leave any argument of ‘rogue
element’ responsibility for torture rather than systematic policy,
totally unbelievable and impotent.
In the closing years of the U.S. occupation of Vietnam, and as it became
more publicly obvious the U.S. was fighting those it claimed to protect
(that in fact attacks on U.S. forces deep inside South Vietnam were
being launched by the South Vietnamese themselves), the CIA launched a
massive counter intelligence campaign aimed at targeting the South
Vietnamese resistance,
code named Phoenix.
With the Phoenix operation, the CIA started to compile lists of
Vietnamese persons of interest. These lists were based on collected data
and information gathered during subject ‘interviews’, and listed men,
women and children as young as 15
and as old as 70.
This intelligence-gathering program was jointly run by US agents and
those they recruited amongst the South Vietnamese forces. The
administration of this program was eventually handed over completely to
South Vietnamese forces, which kept no record of their victims; The CIA
however, did, and by the end of official CIA involvement in Phoenix,
over 20,000 Vietnamese listed had been tortured and murdered.
In 1971, Bart Osborn ,
a former CIA agent, told Congress "I never knew in the course of all
those operations, any detainee to live through his interrogation. They
all died. There was never any reasonable establishment of the fact that
any one of those individuals was, in fact, cooperating with the VC, but
they all died and the majority were either tortured to death or . . .
thrown out of helicopters."
As Nick Schou reports
, “Operation Phoenix
detainees were tortured with electric shocks applied to their genitals,
while women prisoners were typically raped, occasionally with foreign
objects.†(hauntingly similar to claims of treatment of modern Iraqi
detainees).
Mr. Schou also points out in his article: Operation Phoenix Rises from
the Ashes of History, that the CIA is now employing the Saddam era
Mukhabarat (Iraqi Secret Intelligence similar in scope to the CIA) to
investigate resistance support. Mr. Schou relies on statements by
Vincent Cannistraro, a former chief of CIA counter-terrorism, to
highlight what this means. Cannistraro was quoted in the Sunday
Telegraph as saying "They’re clearly cooking up joint teams to do
Phoenix-like things, like they did in Vietnam."
As an advocate for those held without charge or trial by an occupation
rooted in illegality, and under the increasing scrutiny of a world
skeptical of U.S. intentions in Iraq, Amal Swadi is a person of interest
indeed.
Amal Swadi and her 17-year-old son Safa, were brought into the heart of
the machinery of occupation for processing. Ms Swadi blindfold and
shackles were removed and she was instructed by her interrogator to
answer questions related to her person.
Ms. Swadi and Safa, were fingerprinted and made to undergo retinal
scans. Her name, her husband’s name, and the names of her children were
all documented. She was also asked her age, her address, and her
occupation. Most alarming however was the collection of data on her
religious status; apparently the U.S. military occupation felt it was
pertinent to document if Ms. Swadi was Shia or Sunni.
What must be addressed is the motivation of U.S. occupational forces in
recording individual’s religious affiliations in a country that is
increasingly being divided along these very same religious lines, both
in reality and by an oversimplified, blood frenzied corporate media
intent on enflaming old rivalries. Why would U.S. forces be creating
databases of information that could further pressurize this unstable
situation (this also at a time of U.S. collusion with Saddam era secret
police)?
During the years of heavy U.N. sanctions, most in Iraq depended upon
government assistance to supplement their nutritional needs. This aid
came in the form of food rations, and was facilitated through the
issuance of ration cards. In order to receive a card, information was
given and processed, but the question of religious affiliation was not
included. Much like in Tito’s Yugoslavia, the secular Saddam era Iraq
did not want religious distinction to become paramount. This lack of
statistical data leaves in question population figures with regards to
religious denomination continually referred to by occupational forces
and parroted by the corporate media.
For Saddam Hussein, as it was for Tito
, national identity was key to
maintaining power, which simply meant stripping religion of any
importance in public life. It was in fact this disregard for religion
that made fundamentalist al-Qa'ida and Saddam Hussein bitter enemies.
The effect of this continual simplification of issues into Shia and
Sunni has helped fuel a civil divide that is now being used as an excuse
for occupation
(Simply argued by both the British and U.S. occupational forces; if we
leave they will kill each other).
It also hints of what was referred to as the 'Vietnamising of the war'
in the
later stages of that occupation. In an effort to reduce American
casualties, the Pentagon trained native troops to do most of the heavy
casualty fighting of occupation by fueling communist/capitalist phobias
much in the same way religious difference is being highlighted now.
Although Ms. Swadi and Safa's stories end for the time being on the
limited high note of release (after being 'tagged' and 'processed' like
livestock, mother and son were released back into the general population
without further harm), the experience forewarns the enormity of the
human rights disaster being perpetrated against the civilian population
of Iraq in the name of democracy. It also explains why this information
remains a mystery to most Americans, as this arrest clearly demonstartes
the tactics used by a corrupt occupation to intimidate any daring to
stand up.
Although generally unreported, this physical and psychological genocide
is well underway and is being carried out by a U.S. Administration and
Pentagon learned in the powers of terrorism and civil divide. It is a
leadership willing to rape, torture, and murder much in the same way the
U.S. war machine did in Vietnam, and as in Vietnam (which saw over 4
million direct deaths and countless others who continue to die from the
arbitrary use of the WMD Agent Orange), this current illegal and
emboldened occupation will likely post similar genocidal tallies if not
made to immediately account for its activities and be held responsible
for these actions.
Andrew Stromotich is an independent journalist and founding member of
Dropframe Communications.
Video interview of Ms. Swadi at the Istanbul WTI shot for Dropframe by
Rana Al-Aioubi and Andrew Stromotich will be released soon at
http://www.dropframe.ca
_______________________________________________
(c)2004, 2005 Dahr Jamail.
All images, photos, photography and text are protected by United States and
international copyright law. If you would like to reprint Dahr's Dispatches on
the web, you need to include this copyright notice and a prominent link to the
http://DahrJamailIraq.com website. Website by photographer Jeff Pflueger's
Photography Media http://jeffpflueger.com . Any other use of images,
photography, photos and text including, but not limited to, reproduction, use on
another website, copying and printing requires the permission of Dahr Jamail. Of
course, feel free to forward Dahr's dispatches via email.
More writing, commentary, photography, pictures and images at
November 19th, 2005 at 4:29 pmhttp://dahrjamailiraq.com
I love it, Hackett a war hero, is a 'mouthpiece', but miss bomb an abortion clinic whacko BitchSchmidt is to be admired?
bahaha, now that's just one more clinically insane that the butt ugly 70s closet gay porn actor MizzNED says. Classic republican freakazoid denials!
No wonder bush has a 34% approval rating with mental midgets like you guys supporting him! Retire now, and move to Iran and become a Mullah, you have no hope of ever having success or happiness in this country NED.
November 19th, 2005 at 4:30 pmRyan - admit it. Democrats are SPINELESS COWARDS who don't even have the balls to admit they want to pullout of Iraq. AND I won't need to go to Iran - I will have a GOP majority and a hard right Supreme Court.
Paul Hackett is a liar. HE exploited his 7-month military service to attack the President. I guess that's more than zippo Kerry.
We will be investigating Murka come the New Year. He has some inside dealings with his brother that will be exposed.
November 19th, 2005 at 4:34 pmAre there any alternative sites for this video? It appears corrupted from every player, browser & PC I throw at it. I get sound & motion for the first view seconds but then it falls apart.
November 19th, 2005 at 4:35 pmYou people really are idiots. THANK YOU. The GOP could never win elections without your stupidity.
AND Ryan - that poll giving Bush a 34% approval gives congressional Dems a reading of 25%. People HATE liberals because they know you are evil.
November 19th, 2005 at 4:36 pmhttp://www.c-span.org/homepage.asp
November 19th, 2005 at 4:43 pmJust in- Chinese Authorities place Bush under House arrest for Trespassing on Chinese Soil, and for War Criminal Charges..
November 19th, 2005 at 4:45 pmNow Thats Headlines.
RYAN - Democrats are cowards - lol!! They don't represent you.
The screaming you hear in this blog is the dying of leftism. This country is conservative. Americans HATE liberals!!
November 19th, 2005 at 4:51 pmThere are 12 Veterans who have agreed to run (as democrats) for current republican seats in congress. If democrats are so ‘anti-military’, why are so many veterans of present and past wars lining up to run for the party? And why are virtually no republican candidates veterans?
That’s an easy one, republicans are chickenhawks who send soldiers to war poorly trained, poorly equiped, against their signup agreements, and then have the balls to cut their benefits when they come back home!
Republicans are completely anti-military, and any claim to the contrary is just whacko fascist lunacy!
REPUBLICAN = ANTI-MILITARY
November 19th, 2005 at 5:12 pmREPUBLICAN = ANTI-AMERICAN
REPUBLICAN = FASCIST
REPUBLICAN = DICTATOR
REPUBLICAN = MORON
Bahaha, the country is 'conservative'? Bahahaha,
You really should get out more you little loser whacko.
Bush is at 34% approval rating, and the majority of americans are against EVERY SINGLE REPUBLICAN POLICY!
Bahaha, you know, someone as psychotic and insane as you really should be in a straightjacket...
November 19th, 2005 at 5:14 pmAfter what happened last night, I truly find NeDs comments to be completely empty and laughable.
"They Republican party is making a comeback. "
Hahhah hahaha ha haha ha hah ah ahha ha ahah aha ha hah aha ha haahahah ahahaha hah ah aha ahaha ha ah ah aha ha ah a ha ah aha hah ahah aha ah ah ah ah ah Ha ha ha ah aha ha ah H ah H ahA Hahah ahAha ahahahah ah ahah ah ah ahah ha ha hahahhahahahah ah h ah ahah ah ah ha ahhah ah ah a hahah hahahah a.
Can't breathe.......
November 19th, 2005 at 5:15 pmBush is in China Seeking Political asylum .
November 19th, 2005 at 5:18 pmOMfG, I am going to puke:
Where will President Bush build his library?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10017897/site/newsweek/
November 19th, 2005 at 5:24 pmNED,
You know why congressional democrats poll low, because they aren't seen as doing enough to stop you. Not the same thing, little whacko pervert :)
I would tell you to do your research, but we know that option is futile :)
November 19th, 2005 at 5:30 pmBy a margin of 53% to 42%, Americans want Congress to impeach President Bush if he lied about the war in Iraq.
Yeah, republicans are REAL popular. America sees you for the liars, fools and traitors that you are...
REPUBLICAN = LOSER
November 19th, 2005 at 5:33 pmOhio Representive Danny R. Bubp(kiss) (R) appears to be a pumpkinhead, as are the voters that put him in office, apparently.
Representive Bubp(kiss) should be ashamed of himself, as should Congresswoman Schmidt and the voters that put them both in office.
Congresswoman Schmidt, the Nazi Party called...they're looking for a new spokeswoman.
November 19th, 2005 at 5:33 pmA NeD=
November 19th, 2005 at 5:33 pm(wikipedia?)
Divisive issues include evolution, free trade, and the legalization of soft drugs; although the organization has an official policy of not permitting racism, some posts clearly show it. Examples include calling Palestinian children "bombs still growing" (a reference to suicide bombing), racial references in the song parody Crying (Frying Abu-Jamal) [2], and frequent references to the French as "weasels" [3]; however, many posters receive suspensions or even bans for posting material considered racist. The moderators often remove or ban posters who criticize Israel, the invasion of Iraq or Afghanistan war, etc., from its discussion boards. Material that criticizes the administration of George W. Bush is typically not permitted, and posts which do are quickly censored and the member banned. Some topics may be broached by older members but are forbidden to newcomers.
Yet a September 2004 CBS News poll found that 72 percent of Americans say they have either not been affected by the Bush tax cuts or that their taxes have actually gone up.
November 19th, 2005 at 5:36 pmWashinton Posts 2003 national poll found that almost two-thirds of Americans say they prefer a universal healthcare system "that's run by the government and financed by taxpayers" as opposed to the current private, for-profit system.
Same thing with prescription drugs.
On energy policy, those who want government to mandate higher fuel efficiency in cars are labeled "lefties," even though a 2004 Consumers Union poll found that 81 percent of Americans support the policy.
I can go on and on. Same thing for abortion rights, etc. etc.
Republicans are on the wrong side of EVERY argument, and are the minority opinion for every issue.
November 19th, 2005 at 5:41 pmNED, the anti-psychotic meds work better if you actually swallow.
Now open wide like Schmidt and swallow.
November 19th, 2005 at 6:02 pmThat skanky crook should stfu. If she is representing the people of Ohio then why is her state the leader in job losses for the third quater 2005? I suppose she is busy selling out our american workforce to 3rd world communist countries.
Ironic, that a marine tells her to tell Murtha about cowardice. Since when do marines have such a lack of testicular fortitude that they send a woman to relay a marine's message? Not that I have ANY respect for mercenaries er marines or any soldier for that matter. Never in my lifetime has a soldier ever fought for my freedom. Ever. So screw em all.
November 19th, 2005 at 6:03 pmI'm not getting this video. Nothing is downloading when I click on the photo--anybody else?
November 19th, 2005 at 6:13 pmI thought HEIDI FLOSS was no longer in business. Looks like I was mistaken.
People of Ohio can't you recall this Diebold-selected ghoul?
November 19th, 2005 at 6:44 pmComment by Red State blue "Fourth, that is why, in this time of war - however much you may disagree with its beginnings - the only way to support the troops is to support their mission and their commander in chief."
I have to say I agree with "Teddy"
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -- President Theodore Roosevelt
November 19th, 2005 at 6:46 pmTell Jack Murtha how you feel.
http://democrats.org/page/petition/shameonthem
November 19th, 2005 at 6:48 pmI thought HEIDI FLOSS was no longer in business. Looks like I was mistaken.
People of Ohio can't you recall this Diebold-selected ghoul?
November 19th, 2005 at 6:50 pmhttp://0601.netclime.net/1_5/Y/0/J/hijacking_catastroph.ram
November 19th, 2005 at 6:57 pmIf you are too lazy to read about PNAC
“All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.†- Thomas Jefferson
November 19th, 2005 at 7:03 pmAnd to think this is just a warm-up to the 2006 elections. Yesterday's action in the HOUSE was the starter's pistol going off.
November 19th, 2005 at 7:17 pm#321 - it'll be a very small library - after all, how musch space does one need for his Archie comic book collection and his very own copy of "My Pet Goat"?
November 19th, 2005 at 7:28 pm“All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.†- Thomas Jefferson
November 19th, 2005 at 7:33 pmAnd Bush is the TYRANT!
Thats why we are NOT remaining silent, NO MORE! WAR!
NO MORE WAR FOR OIL!
BRING THEM HOME NOW!
RALLY AGAINST TYRANT BUSH EVIKGELICALS
That we will see "what" through? What is the "noble cause"?
November 19th, 2005 at 7:33 pmWould one of you right-wing-nuts please explain this?
Is it "spreading freedom"? If it is, please tell the rest of us who or what gives us the authority to dictate to the rest of the world how they should live?
Next please explain why we SHOULDN'T hear the "why for's" that got us into this war, when neither WMD's, links to 9/11, or any number of the rationals given for thousands dead have been at their very least been "dead wrong", or at their worst intentional?
I think this is it. I know there is so much more I would like answers to, but that should be enough for you wing-nuts to chew on for now. And do please, by all means, chock!
Ned, Think Progress is currently crafting a new children's site. It would be best if you and Ann Coulter visited there from now on and leave this arena for the adults. Understand? Now run away and don't speak unless you are spoken to.
November 19th, 2005 at 7:35 pmHIT BACK AND HIT BACK HARD!
November 19th, 2005 at 8:15 pm#134 - Mike L, I hope this was sarcasm!
#197 - Bluestate red, Please, tell me what the mission is.
#316 - Only 1 in 10 voters would vote for a Republican who agrees with Bush on most issues.
November 19th, 2005 at 8:21 pmWhen you possess something hard NED, let us know. We will be sure to log off.
November 19th, 2005 at 8:23 pmSissys like ned threaten violence?
November 19th, 2005 at 8:25 pmbecareful ned , you wouldnt want to hurt your feelings, or your precious transgender lifestyle.now WOULD YOU?
NED,
Great advice, that's what we're doing. And it's also why you and your wussy fascist republican party is sucking wind - you theiving retarded little loser :)
See the problem is republicans have no ammunition. You're killing off our military, our economy, our workers and jobs, as well as our civil liberties. Americans can see you are the party of death and failure. Without diebold and a coup d'etat, republicans got bumpkus!
Republican shall be the synomym for LOSER in the 21st century, the way WHIG was in the 19th century. And for those that don't know, WHIG was the loser party that died and was re-incarnated as the republican party. Looks like we're in for a little history repeating itself...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Whig_Party
America woke up to the whigs, just as it is now awake to their unholy republican child. The authoritarian and classist republican nitwits have always been the bane of american civilization, but each time they gain power and screw up, america lurches left in a HUGE way. In the end the country is better for their failures...
November 19th, 2005 at 8:47 pmThis Article will exceed 350. just becuase of one stupid remark from a dimwit congesswoman from ohio.
November 19th, 2005 at 8:54 pmisnt that where that dumb tv show originated from?
#321>338 -
November 19th, 2005 at 9:10 pmWith W's reading ability, they will have to stock it with Golden Books. Dick and Jane in the advanced section.
Comment #23 What's the matter with Ohio?
IMO the problem with Ohio is the same problem as every other state in the USA, namely it is overrun with americans. Not that tiny fraction of americans who recognize that the earth is a shared dwelling and as such requires the use of diplomacy, cooperation, compassion, consideration and honesty when dealing with the other tenants and in doing so would have the right to expect the same in return. Not that tiny fraction of americans who invest at least some time and effort in an attempt to educate themselves about the planet they share and as a result could come to be recognized as modest, humble, intelligent people that would serve your country well as it's leaders and representatives to the world (unlike the current idiot-in-chief who publically refers to the citizens of Greece as 'Grecians' rather than Greeks). This level of enlightenment may be okay for the kid working the drive-thru at burger king, but to have it come from your top diplomat, your twice!! elected president and to know that Ohio is at least half full of like-minded americans of similar intellect who support Smirky W. McFlightsuit while he plays "War President" is exactly whats the matter with Ohio. Saddam doesn't have WMD's, but the USA does and look at the moron Ohio has empowered to control them. It is this inability to rise to at least a minimum required amount of independant thought before casting a ballot that puts George "heck of a job Brownie" Bush in a position to not only destroy your own country through corruption and gross incompetence but as an added bonus threaten and/or destroy soveriegn nations with little more than transparent lies as a justification. The other half of Ohio no doubt is longing for the return of the Democratic Party to some sort of relevance, never once realizing that this just the other half of the 'good cop-bad cop' soap opera that is and has been american corporate politics for so long. Why does every american think that a person's 'war record' has any bearing on an individual's ability to hold elected office? It's been 60 years since the USA (and any other country for that matter) has been involved in a justifiable war and if there are world war two veterans out runing for office then fine, go ahead and dig up their records and judge how that person reacts under difficult circumstances. Every war since 1945 has been based on bullshit that the american public swallows whole. The war on communism, the war on cold, the war on drugs, and especially the war on terror, all bullshit. More telling than an indidual's war record is the war record of your country as a whole. The USA has been involved in a war of some kind for 60 years since 1945. Every generation of americans has the opportunity to go to war and with luck and good PR may someday be elected to office because of that all important 'war record'. Stop with the "support the troops" lip service that every corner of america patriotically spouts whenever a television camera is pointed at them, its hypocritical. If you want to support them, have them stop terror bombing Iraqi civillians and get them the hell out of there. Maybe they could be more useful in New Orleans, you remember that city with all the dead bodies floating for days in the flooded streets. Who really cares if the chimp-in-chief's war record shows he was a vietnam era coward, what really defines his lack of character is he was also a hurricane katrina era coward.
November 19th, 2005 at 9:13 pmWell, from here on out ALL the blood is on the Republican's hands. You can't wash up too soon now, the 2006 races will come around fast.
November 19th, 2005 at 9:31 pmOh darnit. I was trying soo hard to be #350. oh, well, better luck next time, in the meantime. PEACE be with YOU!
November 19th, 2005 at 9:36 pmSkeletora Very Angry... but that'd be the worms in her brain... hey, I know.
Chimpy W. McFlightsuit
November 19th, 2005 at 9:37 pmchimpy=George the monkey
November 19th, 2005 at 9:41 pmw=wrong,wrong,wrong.
mcflightsuit=mcguyver?
#349 -
November 19th, 2005 at 10:08 pmThe Greeks were the first civilization to denude and destroy their environment. Greece, once a fertile and productive land is now a virtual desert. W is keen to do this on a worldwide basis. Why he promotes this eludes me as the result is just decades away. Does he believe that Armageddon is just around the corner? God bless us everyone(Thanks Tiny Tim).
she's literally wrapped herself in the flag. where do these pigs come from?
November 19th, 2005 at 10:09 pmFrom sties.
November 19th, 2005 at 10:18 pmFrom Church.
November 19th, 2005 at 10:51 pmI'm from Ohio, and would like to apologize for this dumb bitch.
November 19th, 2005 at 11:04 pmI watched the video. I did not hear Schmidt say "Murtha, you are a coward." She made a statement about cowards and what they do. How does she know what the fallen Marine thought? Perhaps his family told her! I don't know. I wasn't there. Be careful what you do and don't imply in someone elses' words.
Murtha went to Iraq and spoke to Marines that I know who are half way though their tour there. One of them is a Capt who is on his second tour, back to back. It is an honor to know this man. He is truely an officer and a gentelman. He spoke to Murtha while he was in Iraq. Today he heard what Murtha had to say and told me Murtha obviously was not listening to him. There are some REALLY PISSED OFF MARINES in Iraq right now who are more determined than ever to finish what they started! How many of you talk to our warriors day in and day out about what they are doing and how they feel? Sure, many don't want to be there. I know a few and my heart breaks for them. They are really suffering. In the same respect, there are a hell of a lot who believe in what they are accomplishing on the streets and in the neighborhoods, on a very personal level. They are seeing the changes in the lives and attitudes of many Iraqis. Changes for the better. For them, this war has nothing to do with oil, WMD etc. It is all about giving Iraqis their country back, free from dictatorship.
Murtha said it is not the criticism that brings morale down but... WHAT? He was in Nam! He ought to know how criticism cuts like a knife in their backs! I know this because our Marines are telling me this!!!! They feel betrayed!! Do they speak for every service member in Iraq? Absolutely not. But they do speak for a hell of a lot of them.
Who, out of all of the people in the world, want peace in the world the most? Who wants peace more than you? Who wants this war over with more than you? Who would rather be home right now watching football and drinking a beer rather than sucking up sand and dodging mortars and IEDs half a world away?? It is our service members, especially the infantry who are on the front lines. Because if there is no peace, they are the ones who pay the price. But they do what they do and sacrifice like they do because so many know that if it were not for men like them, our country and the world would be a much different place. They will be the first to tell you that war is hideous and horrible and should never be an option. At the same time, war has been a fact of life since the beginning. It will always be. All of this is what they are telling me.
I can not believe how low and vulgar all of you are in expressing your thoughts. You are free to believe what you want. But can't you at least express your views in a dignified manner? You really shed a bad image of yourselves when you speak like this. "A real father" said he blames women. Assuming he has children, what disrespect to the mother of his children and his own mother, unless, of course, he hates them both......
When you click 'Post - I agree" you agree that you will NOT "Post any content to the Blog that is unlawful, racist, hateful, libelous, defamatory, obscene, or that intentionally discriminates against or harasses particular individuals or groups" Most of you apparently DON'T agree to the site's Terms of Use agreement, but click as though you do anyway. Go read it.
November 19th, 2005 at 11:08 pmFace it she was right. Murtha has used the military to make money for his fanily and is soon to be under an ehtics investigation. Accept the facts and stop hating america and those who seek to destroy her.
November 19th, 2005 at 11:09 pmRegarding my post....excuse me, but lest you misunderstand, our service members I spoke of do not think the war is only about freeing the Iraqis from dictatorship, but making sure dictatorship and terrorism do not rule - anywhere. They would rather fight terrorism on foreign soil as opposed to on their own.
November 19th, 2005 at 11:18 pmRegarding my post....excuse me, but lest you misunderstand, our service members I spoke of do not think the war is only about the Iraqis, but making sure dictatorship and terrorism do not rule - anywhere. They would rather fight terrorism on foreign soil as opposed to on their own.
November 19th, 2005 at 11:20 pmLimbless,
I agree that repub;icans should stop hating america. It's good advice that schmidt and the rest of the hateful unamerican republicans should follow.
November 19th, 2005 at 11:34 pmCathy (11:20)~ And yet on our own soil, civil rights are falling like ten pins and yet our troops are still dying. New Orleans is still a mess, residents are still homeless and now about to be kicked out of their temporary shelters, and the people that would normally (back in the good old days of Clinton when FEMA was a capable agency) be the ones helping to rebuild for OUR citizens are stuck in a war zone that has accomplished NOTHING that was touted back at the start of this hideous mess... America has a wannabe dictator, an administration that has repeatedly shown its disregard for WE THE PEOPLE, and we have caused the deaths of thousands of innocents as well as our own children, spouses and parents. Yeah, I'm so worried about expressing myself in a "dignified" manner. This is an obscenity and the visceral response for many is one that is neither refined nor should it be. Just calling it as we see it, ya know?
November 19th, 2005 at 11:37 pmCathy- Thank you for elevating the level of discourse. You are, in my opinion, quite right to chide some posters for their unhelpful, emotional, even offensive comments. And thank you for providing moral support to our troops outre mer. But do you know the old expression, "tell it to the marines"...? It refers to mistruths, the conventional wisdom being that marines were willfully misinformed by their superiors, for security reasons. Today, they are, again in my opinion, misinformed for political reasons. The Baathist regime in Iraq did not attack this country. It posed no credible threat, still less an immanent one. I am pleased and unsuprised to hear that many soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines are deeply commited to the tasks assigned them, and undertaking them with clear moral purpose. Nonetheless, their deployment was an egregious abuse of power by their political leaders, illegal, immoral and unwise. This war is an unconscionable breach of faith with those who have sworn their sweat and tears and blood to the defense of this land. It is time we showed ourselves worthy of their sacrifice and trust. It is time to (ina an orderly and measured fashion) bring them home.
November 19th, 2005 at 11:44 pmMaybe someone should throw water on "Wicked Witch Schmidt" and see what happens.
November 19th, 2005 at 11:48 pmIt is not sexist to note the fact that Schmidt is female -- it is an obvious fact --yet pretending she knows that which actual male veterans and men know as the pool from which the fodder is drawn. Women and children are traditionally protected by society's sacrifice of males; no woman knows what it is like to have the Damocles of the draft negating their future during wartime. I'll not pretend otherwise.
As I am against not identifying women "heroes" as female, I am also against pretending a female slanderer isn't female, or that it doesn't matter that she is. If women can routinely -- and they do -- call men "pricks," then men are granted by that the liberty to call such women the equivalent: c--t.
Bitch is too mild for such a vile creature.
The overwhelming majority oppose the war. The overwhelming majority have Murtha's back. Lying slime Schmidt notwithstanding.
November 19th, 2005 at 11:49 pmGeorge W. Bush is the third AntiChrist; Mabus
1. Take the "Ma" in Mabus and vertically flip it upside down to get "Wg"
Mabus --> Wg(Ma vertically flipped) + bus = Wgbus
2. Trade the places of "W" and "g"
Wgbus --> gW("W" and "g"'s places reversed) + bus = gWbus
3. Add an "H" to the end of "gWbus"
gWbus + H = gWbusH = G. W. Bush = George W. Bush
November 19th, 2005 at 11:57 pmWow that's some crazy contortions you had to go through there Nostradamus.
I agree Bush is evil, but we really don't need to bend over backwards for proof.
November 20th, 2005 at 1:54 amThe GOP is full of Schmidt!
Check it out here;
http://www.cafepress.com/fullofschmidt
November 20th, 2005 at 5:08 amI also tried calling her office and the mailbox was full. Guess all those people were trying to congratuate
November 20th, 2005 at 6:46 amher on her total stupidity and arrogance. But I did find her website and filled in all the blanks that could possibly get me a meeting with her. In the comment section you can say exactly what you think and then those morons thank you for wanting to meet with the bitch. Of course the comment will be tossed but at least I was able to rant.
Has anyone contacted Ohio Rep. Danny Bupb to see if Schmidt quoted him accurately, or if in fact he said anything to Schmidt?
http://www.house.state.oh.us/jsps/MemberDetails.jsp?DISTRICT=88
district88@ohr.state.oh.us
November 20th, 2005 at 7:29 am#366.
November 20th, 2005 at 10:20 amWhile you are at it, Throw water over Cathy.
Cathy, Oh Cathy,,,,
November 20th, 2005 at 10:23 amTo Prove you do Not Know what You are talking about!
I WAS IN Afganistan, and One of My DAUGHTERS WAS IN IRAQ,
Where were YOUR KIDS? Where is Your Husband?
SHUTUP WITCH!
Cathy,
This war isn't "a fact of life". It was completely unnecessary. Those who truly support the troops want them to come home.
As far as the lowbrow comments you so rightly abhor, they occur on both sides of the ideological divide. Check out the comments on FreeRepublic or LGF if you don't believe me.
I don't approve of obscenity, but this war, this "president", and the illegitimate regime in Washington are all obscenities.
November 20th, 2005 at 10:24 amCathy, You Know It ALL?? BECAREFUL WHAT YOU SAY GIRL!
because I am here to Tell"FREEDOM IS NOT AND HAS NEVER BEEN FREE"!Your Freedom Bubble is about to be POPPED!
You are Christian, You Say?
Then Read this Girl!
16 ¶ And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thGENESIS CHAPTER 3
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 ¶ Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
you shalt surely die.
THE DEVIL LIED TO YOU WOMAN! YOU DO DIE!
November 20th, 2005 at 10:30 amAND NO, FREEDOM IS NOT AND NEVER WAS FREE! YOU HAVE BEEN DECIEVED!
5 U.S. Marines, one U.S. soldier killed in Iraq
November 20th, 2005 at 10:34 am51 Americans have already died this month; Marines continue offensive
it will never stop. As long as this WAR Continues on this Course. More will die! FOR what you ask?
November 20th, 2005 at 10:36 amgreed, corruption, = lies, hate.
"FREEDOM IS NOT FREE"
CATHY, When was the LAST TIME You Participated in a WAR?
November 20th, 2005 at 10:37 amSo, What DO YOU KNOW THAT I DONT KNOW?
I Suggest you Read and Pause before Blabbering off at the Mouth. You MIGHT learn something!
November 20th, 2005 at 10:57 amA PEACEFULL RESOLVE CANNOT BE ACHIEVED WITH PEOPLE THINKING THEY KNOW IT ALL!
PEOPLE CANNOT AND NEVER WILL"KNOW IT ALL"!
WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU WAS IN IRAQ???
November 20th, 2005 at 11:19 amIF YOU AGREE TO WANT THIS WAR,, THEN BY ALL MEANS.
GO,GO,GO.
I AM NOT STOPPING YOU FROM GOING TO JOIN THE MILITARY,
CATHY,IWRONGY,AND ANY ONE ELSE THAT WANT TO DIE FOR THEIR FREEDOMS.
GO ALLREAY AND STOP ARGUING WITH US DEMS!
CHICKENHAWKS!
November 20th, 2005 at 11:19 amDear Mrs. Schmidt, Your remarks on the floor of the House of Representatives concerning Jack Murtha have made me ashamed to be from the same state that you represent. I sincerely hope, with all my heart and soul, that the people who elected you will, in the next election, send you back under the rock from whence you crawled.
November 20th, 2005 at 11:39 amJean Schmidt was only elected in the recent special election in Ohio after a "computer glitch" was called when Paul Hackett (her ex-Marine Dem opponent) pulled ahead in the counting of the race late at night. Some of us out here know what those glitches are about: computer vote fraud. The public, such as election watchers, were locked out of the room for the counting.
November 20th, 2005 at 11:42 amWhat's up with the AP identifying Danny "Bopp" (actually, Buhp) as a "Marine Colonel" rather than a Republican politician? If they'd done even a lick of research, they'd have figured out that Buhp is a reservist who's never served in combat, who also has been an active Republican politician serving in elected office in Ohio since 1994. To characterize him as a "Marine Colonel" without anything more is misleading, to put it mildly.
November 20th, 2005 at 11:57 amI served in the US Army's 82'nd Airborne Division stationed in Ft Bragg. We hated the Marines(not really) and liked to refer to them with such derogatory names such as Jarhead and Squidhumper but never in our wildest dreams(and trust me paratroopers can get pretty wild) would we ever consider calling a decorated Marine combat vet a coward. This "woman"(not sure what to call her without offending someone)Jean Schmidt is a disgrace and I hope Ohio has the decency to recall her. I wonder how many wounded soldiers she has taken the time to visit in the V.A. hospitals, I would be willing to bet she hasn't the guts to go take a good hard look at the true cost of war, Murtha does.
November 20th, 2005 at 12:03 pmMs. Schmidt should turn her attention to the subject of Congresswomen of Mass Destruction (CMD's). Of course, if you were to eliminate CMD from Ms. Schmidt's name, all you would be left with is.....
November 20th, 2005 at 12:34 pmThey used that woman Jean Schmidt because they did not have Corrupt Tom Delay their.
November 20th, 2005 at 12:53 pmWhen I see her picture with her big mouth open, that makes me laugh. I hope when she goes home to Ohio they give her hell. She is totally disgusting. Maybe the state of Ohio will run her out of office.
November 20th, 2005 at 1:51 pmAs if OHIO doesn't have enough corrupt activity, we now have Rep. Schmidt furthering that cause through her brutal political attacks on highly regarded veteran Representatives such as Congressman Murtha. Go to another state, Schmidt - Ohio does not need you. GO!!!!!
November 20th, 2005 at 2:51 pmIn my above post, I did not give my personal opinion one way or another about the validity of the war. I did not condone or support it. I did not show my preference one way or another to any political candidate or party. I did not say whether Scmidt was wright or wrong. In short, I did not take any position. I simply suggested that folks be carefull in implying what others mean by their words when those words are not extremely specific. You have implied meaning into my thoughts and words and called me names and you have absolutely NO idea what I think or believe about Bush and this war. In that light, I think you would be shocked if you did know and might just hold that bucket of water for someone else. In addition, I simply shared the thoughts and attitudes of my friends in Iraq - their thoughts, not mine. I don't understand how all of this makes me subject to a bucket of water to get rid of me. Perhaps if some of you could set side your anger and hatred and calm down, you would be able to fully hear and understand the thoughts of others.
A real father, my children are 7 and 11, to young for war. My husband works with the police to solve murders and robberies. He sees the scum of society. My uncle was out on routine manuevers Dec.7, 1945. He had to stand and helplessly watch 20 miles off shore as his buddies got bombed to hell and back. At the end of the attack, he want back to shore, what was left of it, and had to clean up. Don't think the scene ever left his memory. My father was drafted towards the end of the war. My father in law was in Korea. My other uncle, Nam. My great uncle, WW I, and my cousin played cat and mouse with the Russians on a nuclear sub during the cold war. He still works for the Navy as a civilian. My friends, infantry in Iraq, are watching their buddies get blown to pieces and then have to help clean them up while they wipe the blood off of their own faces. Some of them get promotions because their buddy commanders get blown up. What am I supposed to say? Congratulations on your promotion? Don't you think I know freedom isn't free???????????? Don't even preach to me about that! I have heard enough ugly war stories to last a lifetime. I am not in Iraq, but I have some pretty vivid images in my mind because of the stories I hear. And I can tell you this, if I did not have children, I would put my nursing skills to good use and I'd be on the next flight over there and stay until the last service member comes home!!!!! I would not do it for Bush or Iraq, but for my fellow countrymen who are over there. It would be a wrenching job, but I would do it. But I do have children, and they come first right now, because they are little and I am first and foremost a mother. How can you acuse and trash me when you know absolutely nothing about me, including my political thoughts? Your anger and hatred has gotten the best of you.
And when I said war is a fact of life, that was not by any means a casual statement implying war should be/is to be accepted as a normal way of life. What I meant is that war has always been, and always will be because of greed, power, the need to dominate and the inability of people to let others live and let live in peace and in their own right. And if you are going to trash women, then I have to ask: what sex has ALWAYS declaired war, had the urge to dominate, conquer and control to the point that war existed? Clean up you own back yard before you complain about someone elses.
On the subject of New O. Some have moved to my city. They found jobs. Schools, public and private, welcomed their children, free of charge. These people came here with the shirts on their backs and are now getting back on their feet through sheer determination and courage. For those who are still in hotels complaining about how bad it is for their health to be there because all they do is eat and sleep....GET A &$%#* JOB!!! I don't care if it pays $5 an hour. It is a start to getting them where they want to go. Take your life into your own hands and get yourself where you want to be by the sweat of your own brow. "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country." Wasn't it a Democrat who said that? We are where we are today because people got off their butts and did what it took to create an new life. The immigrants in the 1800s came here with no more than the poor of New Orleans have, even less - no place to sleep, no govt handouts, no relatives, no nothing. But they made a good life for themselves through determination and sweat. I know this because 3 of my great grandparents came here with nothing - some only had the clothes on their backs and a sibling - they weren't even 18. This isn't a sob story - it shows where there is a will, there is a way. And by the way, didn't I hear that some areas of La. are the poorest in the country? And did I understand correctly that Democrats have been in control there for some 50 years?
I suspect some of you will still throw water at me simply because I am not obviously trashing those you trash, and I am not ranting and raving as well. Do as you wish, I don't melt. My skin is pretty thick.
November 20th, 2005 at 3:03 pmSchmidt has a brother who did not serve, nor did her father. He was busy playing with Indy cars in the 70`s-80`s. As a Republican, and someone who thinks we should have a plan to start withdrawl, but not "cut and run", I am embarrassed by her comments. It is a slap in the face to all who are and have served.
November 20th, 2005 at 3:05 pmSorry, that was Dec 7 1941. Dad was drafted in '45.
November 20th, 2005 at 3:14 pm[...] Appearing on CNN, Donald Rumsfeld defended Rep. Jean Schmidt’s personal attack on Rep. Jack Murtha from the House floor: BLITZER: Well, the — one of the Republican Congresswomen, Jean Schmidt of Ohio, basically called him [Murtha] a coward. [...]
November 20th, 2005 at 3:53 pmWow, what a reocrd of accopmplishment from this bitch.
Let's see, we have a VETERAN of two wars, and THIRTY years involved in politics, stacked up against this chickenhawk bitch's "record".......
A lifelong resident of Clermont County, Jean Schmidt is the first woman ever elected to represent Southern Ohio in Congress. The diverse Second Congressional District, which includes seven counties, stretches from downtown Cincinnati to the riverside town of Portsmouth in Scioto County.
Throughout her career, Congresswoman Schmidt has held various roles in public office and been actively involved in civic and community groups. She served for two terms in the Ohio statehouse and according to the Cincinnati Enquirer she “…proved effective in passing legislation to address her district’s concerns.†While serving in the state legislature, Schmidt enacted legislation to create jobs, protect Ohio’s children and ensure access to quality healthcare.
Prior to Jean’s election to Ohio’s statehouse, she served 10 years as a Miami Township trustee. In this leadership role, she helped Miami Township to become a world-class community by initiating a variety of projects and improvements, including creating a 300 acre first class park system, securing funds for critical road repairs, and attracting 2000 high paying jobs for the Township. She also established a 5K Run and located a branch of the Clermont County Library in Miami Township.
Congresswoman Schmidt resides in Miami Township with her husband Peter and their daughter Emilie. She holds a degree in Political Science from the University of Cincinnati and her other interests include auto racing and long distance running. She has completed 56 marathons and still counting.
http://www.house.gov/schmidt/about/index.shtml
November 20th, 2005 at 3:54 pmHas anyone checked out Ms. Schmidt's website: jeanschmidt.com If you do, please look at the top picture, cover up everything below the neck, and tell me if that is not a balding man with lipstick and earrings? Could there be something strange in Jean's (Gene's) closet?
November 20th, 2005 at 4:10 pmRelax. That speech has guaranteed her defeat in the next election. By the time she runs again she will have that thing hung around her neck in a district that has already proven to be willing to vote against traditional voting patterns. She is toast and will be returned to whatever slimy rock she slithered out from under. Actually people like her making comments like that are great for the Democrats, her little hissy fit is worth alot of money during fundraising.
November 20th, 2005 at 4:20 pmI would love to see Jean Schmidt Interviewed!
November 20th, 2005 at 4:52 pmit would be great to watch her SQUIRM!
wouldnt you think?
This is what this country has come to--the doorstop of pigs like Schmidt. I'd like to see her scrawny ass fighting over in Iraq, then we'd find out who's a "coward." It's always so easy for these types to sit back and say things while others die. Disgraceful. She should be publicly shamed.
AT
November 20th, 2005 at 5:19 pmThis is the transcript from Ms. Schmidt's speech:
The Speaker Pro Tempore: The gentlelady from Ohio is recognized for one
minute.
Ms. Schmidt: Yesterday I stood at Arlington National Cemetery attending the
funeral of a young marine in my district. He believed in what we were doing
is the right thing and had the courage to lay his life on the line to do it.
A few minutes ago I received a call from Colonel Danny Bubp, Ohio
Representative from the 88th district in the House of Representatives. He
asked me to send Congress a message: Stay the course. He also asked me to
send Congressman Murtha a message, that cowards cut and run, Marines never
do. Danny and the rest of America and the world want the assurance from this
body - that we will see this through.
There is plenty to disgust one here. For instance, that Ms. Schmidt is so informed that she knows what ALL of America and ALL of the world wants. Jeez, I'm one tiny part of "the rest of America", and I don't want what Ms. Schmidt states.
The most irreconcilable part of this transcript, however, is that The Speaker Pro Tempore referred to Ms. Schmidt as a "gentlelady"!
November 20th, 2005 at 5:26 pmWhere was she and her husband during Vietnam? They appear to be about the right draft age or did they run like cowards? She should go back to running cross country instead of for office.
November 20th, 2005 at 5:33 pmOhio's district Two elected "a hatchet" over a Hackett. Or more concisely, they elected a battle-ax.
November 20th, 2005 at 5:51 pmNot only has Schmidt denigrated a decorated veteran of two world wars, but she has demeaned all women by shooting off her mouth in a most intemperate manner without thinking and without knowing the facts. Clearly she had no idea of John Murtha's background--which didn't stop her from assailing someone who has served his country more and better than she could ever hope to do. Where are her purple hearts?! In which wars did she fight? To which military units did she belong?
If women are to have positions of political leadership on par with men, then they have to show that they can be competent, fair-minded, and effective leaders deserving of the people's high trust, and not empty-headed political hacks worthy only of our scorn.
November 20th, 2005 at 6:08 pmSweetie- I don't think anyone should be surprised that a computer glitch, or a man-made computer glitch would be the cause of having that psycho gain advantage over
a more qualified candidate. Do you think that the glitch might have been man-made? I sincerely look forward to your response.
Cathy, if your father joined the military on December 7th, 1945, World War II would have been over by four
November 20th, 2005 at 6:30 pmmonths. If this is an attempt to confuse us on this blog, keep trying. It ain't working.
Carol Doerflein,
Thank you for your thoughtful and reasoned comments. Although I have made some (possibly) humorous comments concerning Ms. Schmidt, I too am appalled by this person's speech on the floor of the House of Representives. Thank you for taking the time to comment, and for providing us thoughts worthy of relection.
November 20th, 2005 at 6:37 pmAlso, thank you, Cathy, for taking the time to share your thoughts. Public discourse is always of value, and I honor you for sharing your insight and comments.
November 20th, 2005 at 6:40 pmWhy are people attacking Jean Schmidt when Colonel Danny Bubp asked Jean to send Congress a message. Some Commentors are attacking the wrong person for what was said. The reason some people are not going after Colonel Danny Bubp is cause you dont have the balls. Instead you attack the messenger as opposed to the message. The Military is all VOLUNTEERS. If a person does not wish to be in this war against terrorism they didn't NOT have to sign enlistment papers.
November 20th, 2005 at 6:45 pmDear Kristin,
A remedial course in English is recommended. Just because our Commender-in-Chief is not fluent in English does not mean that you are excused from using proper English. A double negative is NOT acceptable English, unless you mean to express something in the positive.
November 20th, 2005 at 6:55 pmdid not**. Whoops, bad editing / proof reading.
November 20th, 2005 at 6:56 pmMy understanding is Danny Bubp was not a colonel. Can anyone help me out here. Thanks.
November 20th, 2005 at 7:08 pmDear Kristin,
If "Colonel" Bubp has balls, why did he have to have Ms. Schmidt deliver his message? Is it because if he did, the American people would realize that he is simply a low-ranking politician rather than a front-line combatant?
November 20th, 2005 at 7:08 pmThe nerve of Mean Jean....
November 20th, 2005 at 7:08 pmthe only patriotic thing about her was her sweater!!!
Okay then, Who cares who delievered it, what about the message?
November 20th, 2005 at 7:15 pm#375 - "Where were YOUR KIDS? Where is Your Husband?
November 20th, 2005 at 7:43 pmSHUTUP WITCH!
Comment by A REAL FATHER!"
*****Dear DAD - for someone with proud military service you sure do whine alot. You sound like the kind of guy every body in the platoon hates.
Dear Kristin,
His message? Which one: that "cowards cut and run. Marines never do."? Or, that "Republican lawmakers never cut and run. They simply run (from military service)".?
November 20th, 2005 at 8:15 pmI think the majority of the 417 comments I have just read confirm quite clearly that Democrats today, on the whole, are foul-mouthed,rude, crude and choleric. They have called Jean Schmidt things that no decent person would, but then they don't know any better. By the way I have served in the military as an infantryman, seen my buddies killed, won a silver star and a purple heart. I applaud Jean Schmidt, and agree with her except for calling Mudrtha a coward. He's not ---he's merely on the edge of semility. Happens even to 30-year marines, poor guy.
November 20th, 2005 at 8:54 pmJimbo, once again, please take time to calmly listen and read. I realized my mistake and wrote "Sorry, that was Dec 7 1941. Dad was drafted in ‘45" What that means is that the bombing of Pearl Harbor was December 7, 1941, not December 7, 1945 and that dad was drafted in 1945. When I wrote 1945, I was thinking ahead of my typing and I was recalling the year dad was drafted and typed that year instead of the correct year of the bombing. The war ended in 1945, I believe it was in August, when Japan surrendered, and then they officially surrendered on paper in September. Where did I say that dad was drafted December 7, 1945? Sheesh!!!! I did not think that I would have to go into this deep of an explaination of my correction of dates for a bunch of adults!
Jimbo, you just confirmed my point that all of you need to slow down, contain your anger, open your mind up and accurately read and understand what has been written and spoken.
While I am here, Kristin has a point - Jean delivered a message. It was not her own. And why did Bubp have her deliver his message? Did you ever think that maybe it was not because he didn't have the guts, but maybe, just maybe something precluded him from attending the session? Of course you did not think that. Perhaps that is your problem - you are not thinking, you are just reacting.
You know, I have absolutely no problem having an intelligent discussion or debate with people who have a different view point from mine. Bring it on. We can all learn something from a different point of view if we are willing to. But I am only finding a few here who who seem to be able to have a dignified, intelligent conversation. You will not win people to your side with this kind of agression and hostility.
November 20th, 2005 at 9:18 pmDear John Plumb,
You agree with Jean Schmidt? Are you as arrogant and brain dead as her, to assume that you speak for all "the rest of America and the world"? Do you read newspapers, read polls, or talk with people with opinions other than your own? If you did, you would realize that you and Jean Schmidt are out of touch with most Americans. Wake up, John Plumb! You, Jean Schmidt, and the Replubican party are out of step with America.
November 20th, 2005 at 9:25 pm#418 Who cares what you think dick breath. You are for continuing an illegal war, killing, torture, rape, thievery of others resources,etc.,etc.
November 20th, 2005 at 9:32 pmOne thing I have learned about the repugnants is that most of them have the brains of a house fly .
Take your little medals and stuff them turd burglar. By the way the word is senility, dope.
Just another fake post by a fake servivceman.
Schmidt is a SLIT.HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
PS Jimbo, perhaps you are the one trying to confuse everyone. I was correcting my mistake so that there would be no confusion or accusations as such. Read carefully.
November 20th, 2005 at 9:49 pmJust as all mafia and street gangs demand newly made members to perform some sort of mayhem to be accepted, the goons on the right sent this poor fool out to do their dirty work. She will sliver back under her own cover,because her pals won't give her any, now that she's been spent. What a poor, poor fool she is, and commisar karl will not recognize her ever again.
November 20th, 2005 at 11:00 pmCathy, For your Intellic Info, China has a Population of over 1.3 Billion People. China Disagreed with the War that Bush started.
November 20th, 2005 at 11:09 pmIf you remember so well, then remember 911 the days after, when Bush declared War on the Entire Nation of Afganistan. the Carpet Bombings, Bunker Busters, How many Innocent Lives were Lost, Just at that moment. Now ,How in the World did Bush go from Afganistan to Iraq with his so-called war on terror? it never was a war on terror, it was Bushs war For freedom. and he is still trying to push it. this is why he is in China, well, China Knows better. once you set them free , you can never take it away.
Cathy, God and Freedom Have nothing in Common. Have you ever read the Bible? Isrealites were merely led out of Bondage and Slavery, America is back in that same situation where the poor get poorer while the rich get richer. Do you defend the Rich , Free , and abundant Wealth? history is repeating itself, but, unlike Eygpt/Isreal, The whole America is going to be destroyed by a Mighty Earthquake.
Unless we give up our freedoms.
you do know the world population is around 6.6 Billion people, Chinas population is 1.3 BILLION People, India 1 Billion, and America?LESS than 300 Million, and how many of that is in prison, on drugs, not capable of defending freedom, there is a whole lot more to it than you realize. May I suggest you take a deep hard look at hoy many americans are killed here in america? Your Policeman should be able to help you with this.
You cannot win a war against China.
November 20th, 2005 at 11:23 pmHey REAL FATHER learn how to spell Israel if you are going to use it in your lame and contrived argument. Go back to watching movies made for TV.
Cathy and John Plumb thanks for being rational.
November 20th, 2005 at 11:46 pmAm I missing something here? What does the population of China have to do with anything I said about why my children, myself and my husband are not in Iraq? Or about my friends that are there? Or about jimbo's confusion about me correcting dates. Or anything else that I said? I never said a word about China or any of the things you just wrote about. Get some rest and clear your head.
November 20th, 2005 at 11:49 pmHistory is not just you and your family, you havent a clue to the fact that if america and china gets into a war that america would lose?
November 21st, 2005 at 12:17 amyou might be the one that will need the rest.
China is against Bush also.
China knows freedom is not free.
Bush dos not know that yet.
Mighty Mouth,
If you never served in the military, why badmouth a REAL MILITARY MAN like A REAL FATHER? Are you that jealous?
Cathy,
We are not politically correct in this blog. Nor do we tend to be. We are providing a voice against a system that bullies us and says that we're supposed to take what they give us, like it or not. We are the American people. WE pay our tax monies to these politicians to do their jobs. We tell them what we want and they are supposed to deliver on those wants.
Wants such as...
A BETTER POLITICAL SYSTEM
A STABLE FINANCIAL SYSTEM
A SECURE PROTECTIVE SYSTEM AGAINST TERRORISM
A MILITARY THAT PROTECTS NOT JUST OUTSIDE, BUT INSIDE THE U.S.
Since Dubya took office, they have all gone to hell in a hen basket. Republicans became verbal and physical bullies even insulting those who suffered under 9/11 and this joke of a war which is really about oil.
As Gil Scott Heron said, "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised." While the news media continues to buttkiss up to the Dubya Mafia, more people are dying in Iraq, U.S. and across the globe as a result of
callous acts under the Dubya Mafia. We have been kicked the the teeth long enough. 2006 will be the year that we start kicking back.
And Cathy, if you can't accept the way this blog will be, please leave and take the trolls like NED and Mighty
Moron with you.
This has been a live voice.
November 21st, 2005 at 3:39 amA beheading video with her on it would rock the Casbah
November 21st, 2005 at 5:54 amWow! What a nasty, miserable bitch! I hope she's not married. Her husband needs to wear a a metal cup to bed!
Murtha is one of the few that can stand up and say "enough!" That is a true hero and a brave man. We need more Democrats and Republicans that will stand up to the administration. This is not a dictatorship,
November 21st, 2005 at 9:33 amalthough Bush would like that!
Jimbo, if people on this site want to be nasty and vulgar, that is up to all of you. I hate political correctness BTW. But I do have a problem with you twisting words and facts - example - trying to tell me that I suggested my dad was drafted Dec. 7, 1945 and accusing me of trying to confuse everyone. Example - slamming Schmidt for repeating someone elses words then acting as though they were her thoughts. In order to have even a basic conversation, vulgar or not, you have to get the basic facts straight - ALL OF THEM. Jimbo, I see you are more than willing to trash people, but I haven't seen that you are man enough to admit that you read in error and therefore made an unfounded accusation. I am sorry is probably not even in your dictionary. But, from what I have seen, I would not expect that from you.
And don't worry, I won't be around long. I will go find some Democrats who can have a debate on an intellectual level. I only have to look to my neighbors.
A real father, I still don't see the connection between China and what I have said.
See what I mean?? He is replying to me on an unrelated topic from mine.
I DON"T CARE HOW YOU WANT TO BE, JUST GET THE FACTS STRAIGHT!!!!!!!!! Well, I do care, but be as you wish. It is your right.
November 21st, 2005 at 9:35 amI was looking for a transcript of Scmidt's remarks, which...by the way, were not "her" remarks, but that she was reading a message from yet another Marine [I believe] Veteran. Rep. Duncan Hunter, also a Vietnam Veteran, who I've heard initiated this vote was ALSO shouted down as he held a fistfull of e-mails from Troops currently stationed in Iraq.
I dare say that I don't quite suss all the angst and hyperbole by the majoritiy of posters here...after all, the 'news' has repeated endless quotes of "significant" democrats on a daily basis for several years now, calling Bush & Co. every name in the book, including "coward"....which, of course, proves NOTHING....name calling never did. But, when the koolaid drinkers with the "pull out now" bumper stickers actually GET their day of glory...the whole charade implodes instantly....???
~~~~~~~
You would be better served to support HR 4259, "The Veterans Right to Know Act".
If you disagree, please...by all means...come to ProjectSHAD.us and inform us as to precisely what you "think" is the correct manner in which to "treat Veterans"....
Barring that, perhaps you could push for a follow-up vote to change the flag to a more progressive white field with a broad yellow stripe down the back and a dainty pink lace fringe.
J.B. Stone, USN, ETN-2, Project SHAD, 1969, USS Granville S. Hall, YAG-40
PS: If you still prefer Kool Aid, then by all means visit www1.va.gov/SHAD to participate in the cover up.
November 21st, 2005 at 9:59 amNONE of you "progressives" happen to note THESE remarks...
Rep. Sam Johnson of Texas who was a war prisoner in Vietnam for seven years, three of them in solitary confinement:
"When I was a p.o.w. I was scared to death when our Congress talked about pulling the plug that I would be left there forever," Johnson said. Soldiers "need to have full faith that a few naysayers in Washington won't cut and run and leave them high and dry."
But, then.....the MORALE of the Troops waging War on YOUR behalf are not of concern here....
http://www.samjohnson.house.gov/Biography/
Oh, yeah....while your AT it with all the wailing and gnashing of teeth....could someone HERE please explain to me how it came to be that the discharge status of Saint John Kerry came to be "upgraded" to honorable by a "special commission", brought about by personal intervention by then President Jimmah "habitat" Cahtah, a full SIX YEARS after his original enlistment expired...and then his so-called "medals of honor" came to be RE-instated soon after he was elected to the Senate...???
[hint: the answers are in those remaining 100+ pages of military records which remain UN-disclosed]
By the way...did I tell you, he's a Vietnam War Hero...!!!
November 21st, 2005 at 10:52 amCathy, Your topic is about YOU. This Blog has Multi purposes. talking about your Family History has nothing to do with World History.
November 21st, 2005 at 10:58 amI cannot relate to your Topic because it has no revealance to me of current world History.
#433"See what I mean?? He is replying to me on an unrelated topic from mine."
This B*tch is finished in Ohio!
November 21st, 2005 at 11:13 amLooked up Bubp's record.
The most combat he has ever seen was in Tampa!
http://www.geocities.com/danin04/bio
November 21st, 2005 at 11:36 amI just had a thought as I was doing other work. What would happen if a boxing legend was in fight and quit in the middle of the fight? What if you were in a fight, verbal or physical and quit in the middle. What happens when ANYONE quits in the middle of ANY fight? They get laughed at, made fun of, get called coward, softie, wimp, no guts no glory and on and on and on. If we pull out now, we will be quitters and the rest of the world will know that if they bash the USA enough, they can get us to quit. And don't you think the terrorists aren't watching and reading like a bunch of hawks what we all have to say?
"Hahahaha!!!!! Look how we have caused the US to become unglued and fractured! HAHAHAHA!! If we hang in there long enough they will give up and we can do as we want HAHAHA!! What weenies! HAHAHA!! We might wear dresses and hide among the goats and behind women and children, and we may not have the guts to fight man to man so we set off remote controlled bombs, but who cares??? The US can't keep it together!! Hahahahahahhh!! If they can just keep the war of words going alittle longer, maybe they will go a way!!! Getting them to fight among themselves is a feather in our turbans!! We didn't expect the people on US soil to help us like this!!!!!!!!!!Hahahahahahah!!"
Before you trash me - remember, my friends are in Iraq and I understand what it is like. I know what they think because they tell me. I know they don't speak for everyone there. But, they want to finish what they started. They don't want to be quitters. They have too much pride and determination to quit. Quit is not in their vocabulary. In addition, they are making a difference and they see it because they are there. Don't believe me? Go find some soldier and Marine blogs - and not the Michael Moore types. Go outside your comfort zone and get the other side of the story. Expand your knowledge and when you have facts, first hand from both sides where the boots meet the sand, then make your decision. The only people who should have any say as to when we are ready to come home is the commanders in the field. Whether you support the rational for the war or not, have enough respect for them to get the hell out of their way. Shut your mouths and let them determine what they need to do. They are there and they see it first hand.
Now before you go off half cocked, I did not give my opinion or consent for the war. I relayed thoughts and wishes from some of the troops. You have no idea, absolutely NO IDEA how all of this bickering is tearing at their morale. Not only do they have a gun battle to fight, but they feel they have to stand up for themselves on the homefront and convince all of you to support them as well and it is killing them. 'Come home now' is not support to them. It is a call to shame. They see it as betrayal. You all are pushing for another VietNam. Do you really want that? Of course not all feel this way, but a vast many do. These men desperately need your support..they need you to say...
"DO what you have to do and we will keep the homefires burning for you. You are in our hearts, thoughts and prayers. And when you come home, THEN we will argue about the war, whether it was right or wrong, and what we should do in the future. What matters is that you are there now - do your job. Finish what you started. Until you come home, I will send you care packages - with M&Ms (they won't melt now that summer is over), canned air to clean your weapons, soap and shampoo for your occasional shower, baby wipes for in between (non scented of course!), a few DVD's to take you away for a couple of hours, and some munchies. It is getting cold, need any under armour wear? Oh, and I'll send a bottle of Fabreez and some air freshner - I can only image how smelly your hooch must get when you all take off your boots!! Be carefull and be safe guys... we got your six. WE LOVE YOU."
This is what they want to hear right now.
BTW, if you want to see a letter from a soldier who desperately wants your support, I would be glad to get it and post it here for you. After all, he does want everyone to see it.
But, I don't expect most of you to get this.
A real dad...I am being most sincere when I say thank you for your service. We have vastly different opinions in many areas, and we have vastly different ways that we express it. None the less, thank you. For your service in our military, you have my respect.
November 21st, 2005 at 11:39 amBTW, a real father, you brought the subject up. I brought up my family history because you asked where my husband and children were and I wanted you to know that, even though "we" are not in Iraq, my family has served and fought for our country for almost 100 years, so my family and I are no strangers to service and sacrifice. Had you not brought the subject up, I would not have mentioned it.
In addition, most of my concern here has been for our troops, who are a part of current world events. My other concern here is for an rational understanding of certain, simple facts, some printed in black and white. Other points were a response to other posts.
November 21st, 2005 at 11:52 amFirst, Rep. Schmidt did NOT call Mr. Murtha (or anyone else, for that matter) a coward - she was quoting Colonel Bubp. HE said that "Cowards cut and run".
Second, Colonel Bubp did NOT call Mr. Murtha (specifically) a coward.
Rep. Schmidt conveyed the BROAD, SWEEPING, GENERALIZED statement of Colonel Bubp, that ANYONE who "cuts and runs" is (CORRECTLY) referred to as a COWARD. Hey, Mr. Murtha, if the shoe fits...
Third, the House of Representatives is SUPPOSED to be "the People's House", is it not? Therefore Rep. Schmidt was 100% CORRECT to bring the WORDS of WE, THE PEOPLE to the attention of the narrow minded members of the House of Representatives...
Have YOU ever tried to contact a member of congress? No, not YOUR representative, but, say Mr. Murtha or Ms. Schmidt?
MOST of them have websites which RESTRICT the sender of the comments to those in THEIR districts... How F'ING arrogant... They stand there, in Congress, knowing that they are on NATIONAL TELEVISION/RADIO, and say anything they damn well please, THEY expect to be sheltered from criticism (from either those with opposing views just across the aisle OR from WE, THE PEOPLE)? What F'ING hypocrites!
They assert that they are "our" representatives, but they REALLY want to be able to say ANYTHING with impunity (they don't want to hear from us, unless we've got a check in our hands for THEIR campaigns).
Well, I, for one, LOVE the Republicans forcing the Democrats (especially Mr. Murtha himself) to put their money where their mouths are (for a change)...
I also LOVE hearing the Democrats acting like spoiled brat CHILDREN when forced to VOTE on the very subject that they've been spouting for weeks, months, and yes, YEARS...
BUT, I've got to give a BIG congratulations to the THREE (count 'em THREE) Democrats who had the courage of their convictions to actually vote YES [to pull the troops out NOW]).
At least we NOW KNOW where the REST of the Democrats, including Mr. Murtha, and San-Fran-Nan (Pelosi), stand on the issue, don't we!? Or DO WE?
BEFORE, they were bloviating that we need a "time table" for the withdrawal of troops (like we have one for getting our troops out of Japan or Germany [after World War II], or from Korea, or Vietnam, or Bosnia - We've STILL got troops THERE). In the imortal words of Charles Laughton (in Witness for the Prosecution), "Were you lying then, or are you lying now, or are you not, in fact, a chronic and habitual LIAR!?"
Oh, and before you mantra chanting NEO-PROGs attempt the "Bush Lied" crap - NO, he didn't LIE... Granted, the intellegence was far from stellar (crap, if you ask me) - the FACT is, that President Bush believed it, the ENTIRE United Nations Security Council believed it, and the Brits STILL believe it... Stating what you BELIEVE TO BE TRUE (even if it turns out, later, to NOT be true, is NOT a LIE).
A LIE, would be like the highly respected President Clinton, when he LIED to that Federal Judge (when he KNEW what he was saying was FALSE, but he said it anyway - under oath). THAT is LYING.
And, YES, THAT, too, is what Scooter Libby did (that moron)... Now that we KNOW that Valerie Plame was NOT "covert" (that means, NO CRIME in releasing her name [even whomever told Bob Woodward a MONTH before Novak published his column] did NOTHING ILLEGAL)... Sorry - that's the FACT.
But, hey, I'm sure this will be MIS-CHARACTERIZED for WEEKS in the "main stream media"... Got to love it!
November 21st, 2005 at 12:04 pmOh, one more thing...
This is NOT about Mr. Murtha's service. He was, indeed, a highly honored member the Marine Corps.
NO ONE is questioning his service.
This is ALSO NOT about Vietnam!
Quite frankyly (and not to minimize the service of ANYONE who served in Vietnam, or ANY conflict, at ANY time, ANYWHERE in the world) - WHO GIVES a RAT'S REAR END about Mr. Murtha's service in Vietnam?
The issue at hand is the war in Iraq, and what should be done about it...
Now, I'm not stupid enough to believe that 100% of the men and women serving WANT to be there (hell, I doubt if ANY of them WANT to be there), but everything I've read and heard leads ME to believe that the VAST MAJORITY of those serving are PROUD AS HELL to be doing what there're doing.
I would REALLY love to get a poll of those service men and women IN IRAQ to cast THEIR vote on whether THEY argee with Mr. Murtha or not...
Just guessing, but I bet it would be REALLY close to the way it went down in the House (flaming defeat).
I know there are NO words to properly articulate the deep appreciation MOST Americans have for the men and women who serve in our Armed Forces (current and past) AND for their families (whose sacrifice and struggle does not go un-noticed or unappreciated).
SOME of us, don't just do so on Veterans' Day, or Memorial Day...
Please accept my most sincere and heart-felt thanks!
For those serving in harms way - STAY SAFE and kick ass!
November 21st, 2005 at 12:24 pmI watched the debate in congress and she did call John Murtha a coward. You did not listen to what she said? You can spin this anyway you want but the facts are the facts.
Bushie did lie to the American people about going to war. This was decided long before he got in office. He went into Iraq for OIL and to make his buddies RIcher.
November 21st, 2005 at 12:32 pmI thought I was the only one who hates Republicans, but I see I have many friends. Not all Republicans are lousy, just the ones who voted for Bush. The enemy in Iraq are called insurgents, in America, we were called Freedom Fighters. We did the same thing that the insurgents are doing, we shot the British one at a time. This war is stupid, the White House is stupid, Cheney, Rumsfeld and not to mention our illegal President are all stupid. We are in deep doo doo and I am afraid we will start shooting Democrats against Republicans, much like the civil war, south against the north.
November 21st, 2005 at 1:05 pmComment by Steven Jonas, MD, MPH, Contributing Author for the webmagazine The Political Junkies.net.
November 21st, 2005 at 1:20 pm"The strong make the tough decisions; the weak 'stay the course'."
A REAL FATHER-
(Yawn) Did you manage to get past Cathy's rants without falling asleep or laughing? I stopped at the part of sleeping. :)
I enjoyed your #436 response to her. She must be new.
November 21st, 2005 at 1:32 pmToo many trolls in the neighborhood.
Remember the cut and run democrats lost the Vietnam war and are attempting to do the same here. I would like to hear comments from service men who served with Murtha during the period he became a war hero. I'll bet we will find credentials to senate hero, cut and run Kerry.
November 21st, 2005 at 2:15 pmI just saw the footage of Jean Schmidt this morning on TV and was appalled.
November 21st, 2005 at 2:28 pmWhat I saw this morning was a fear-based attack against Senator Murtha for speaking his mind.
Too long have we wallowed in a place where people are afraid to speak out against the policies of the Bush Administration for fear that they would be perceived as being unpatriotic and cowardly.
This country is turning into a very scary place to live and have an opinion. I don't necessarily think that leaving IRAQ in six months is a good idea. But, Senator Murtha has the right to think whatever he wants and he has the right to put his voice to it as well.
Hopefully, Jean Schmidt will not be re-elected after her very unflattering tirade against Senator Murtha. What a mean-spirited thing to say. Personally, I think that, given the environment right now, the bravest thing Senator Murtha could've done was to say just what the thinks.
I really hope that more people start to speak their minds as well. Hopefully, with some sane discussion about the situation in Iraq, some real progress can be made.
Senator Schmidt just made herself look like a real ass!
Greg Why are you questioning John Murtha service record? I would like to know if you are or was in the military? If not why don't you go and sign up if you like this war so much. Most of Bushie admin has not been in the service.
November 21st, 2005 at 2:31 pmI was very pleased with the statement she made..I was even more pleased with the vote. What was it something like 403 to 3? With 6 not voting?
The cowards are the ones who spew out all the anti-war nonsense and can't back up their commentaries with a vote.
so if their vote does not support their stance then their stance is pure partisan BS!! and maybe should give one pause on their motives.
Stay low people, avoid the black helicoptors and get in line for the Kool Aid..
November 21st, 2005 at 2:39 pmPlease, please, please, please remember that not everyone in Ohio voted for this woman or the president. There are plenty of us angry, pissed off Ohioans who feel like their state has been hijacked.
November 21st, 2005 at 2:42 pmIt's time to put people like congresswomen Schmidt on the Axis of Evil. Mr. Murtha is probably one of the best representatives we have in the world of American courage, patriotism and service. He is indeed a pinnacle of what's right with America. And his wisdom, loyalty and selfless sacrifice to this country, are in NO way diminished by the seditious rantings of this souless servant of evil.
The worst part is, the republicans and many democrats are ignoring the GENUIS of Mr. Murtha's plan. He is NOT saying to withdraw completely. He is talking about REDEPLOYMENT to the outskirts of Iraq, out towards the Caspian sea where we mounted Deseret Storm.
The plan is to redeploy, and use quick response strike teams to assit the Iraqi army if there are uprisings or issues they can't deal with. In other words, leave the house but be a phone call away. That way we would not be abandoning the Iraqi people, but we would be out of sight, and out of reach of the IED's. Our soldiers would no longer be in danger, and we would not be losing an average of 4 a day. The Iraqi people would be forced to stand up (necessity is the mother of invention) and yet in an emergency, we could swoop in and still save the day.
No this plan is simple brilliance, and with all the hype by peices of schmidt like ms. schmidt, we never focused on the actual plan by this Mr. Murtha.
Obviously the republicans liked the plan so much that they had to distract us from it. God forbid they allow a democrat, particularly a war hero democrat out think them on the Iraq war. After all, the republicans obviously know so much more about war. So much in fact, that most of them have been able to avoid it their entire lives.
worfeus
November 21st, 2005 at 2:49 pmFor your information the amendment the House voted on was not the Murtha it was the Hunter amendment. This woman was totally disgraceful. All you can see was her big mouth open which made me laugh. She looked like a witch. She will be out of office next year. The people of Ohio will not stand for this crap.
November 21st, 2005 at 2:55 pmWORGEUS-- what Murtha planned and what you support is basically a..hmmm.....how do I say this...cutting and running!
I guess the people who would know, think that we should still have boots on the ground until Iraq can use their own boots.
Leaving on your timetable is not as good as leaving on the timetable of our commanders in the field.
Murtha served in the marines? So what! That doesn't make you a military expert.
I also find it humorous (being a fromer soldier and a republican) your comments on republicans attempting to avoid war.
November 21st, 2005 at 3:03 pmDidn't your beloved clinton dodge the draft.. you guys thought he was great!!
Now go back to the kool aid and let the adults run the country.
Does anyone listen to Tammy Bruce? I am a Republican, she is a Democrat, (what the Democratic party actually started out as) and I agree with most of what she says. I haven't heard her comments though on the statement made by Jean Schmidt. Although I do not think Schmidt actually called Murtha "a coward", (she was only relaying a message), she needs to be wiser on who she allows to speak thru her mouth. Someone else's comment has come to haunt her as her own opinion.
November 21st, 2005 at 3:13 pmWow can't believe how lame some of the arguements defending Rep Schmidt are, "she was just relaying a message". So all I have to do to be heard is type up a note to my congressman and they will automatically read it on the house floor? Rarely have I seen both logical and ethical gymnastics on the same floor at the same time. She freely chose to say what she did on the floor of the house and there was nobody forcing her to say anything against her will. My guess is she thought it would improve her standing within the Republican party bosses. There is no excuse for what she said on the floor of the house and now she is going to be paying the price of her miscalculation with her career. But then that is the problem you run into when you become a sycophant or just another puppet for the someone else.
November 21st, 2005 at 3:23 pmTo FrighteningFred. The only thing frightening about you Fred is your ablity to decieve yourself.
It's the boots on the ground genius, that is causing the problem. If you know so much about war, then obviously you are aware that history has shown us time and time again that you can't beat an insurgent rebellion with an occupying force, unless you are willing to KILL EVERYONE. Each person you kill in Iraq, breeds dozens more. But I am beating a dead horse here. You and soldier of fortune reading masses like you will never get it.
I don't know your MOS, and I don't know how much service you have put in, but if you don't think that 37 years, almost 4 decades of military experience, much of it in combat in Vietnam, 3 purple hearts, a bronze star, and years of tactical leadership in Military intelligence doesn't make one a Military expert, then you are just another hopeless case. So full of righteous indignation, so believing that we are freeing the Iraqi people, so convinced that inside every Iraqi is "an American trying to get out", that you will never get it.
As soon as Americans decided to bring blood and horror to the people of Iraq, with no justification other than the cowardly fear that "someday" they may attack us, we joinded the ranks of twisted and wicked.
In America, you can't walk up to someone on the street and hit them, because you think that someday they might hit you. You will go to prison. Period. What makes you think that your life is so precious, that you can go kill Iraqi's because some day they may hurt us?
Boots on the ground sounds cool. In fact all that lingo sounds cool, and we love throwing it around. Because the real words, like murder, and torture, and spreading pain and evil, hurt too much. Call it what you want. But it's not democracy that we are spreading over there, although we are spreading something.
You know what a coward is? Anyone can shoot a gun. But cowards start wars with tiny nations, like Iraq, and then call the poor, indigent people of Iraq cowards, as they stand up against our tanks and smart bombs, and bullet proof vests, and armour and air support, with their rags on their backs, sandals on their feet and Viet Nam era weapons. Oh yea, we are all so tough and cool, and they are animals. Mow em down, while we the righteous role our tanks right into heaven.
Redneck peabrains who are so afraid of dying that they would wreak genocide on a small defenseless nation to show their courage and protect us from events that have never occured.
And it's worfeus genius, not worgeus.
November 21st, 2005 at 3:27 pmOld Bushie was AWOL from the National Gurard. Murtha was a colonel in two wars.
Cheney is no expert because he was a draft dodger. There is alot of Republican that did not serve in the military. The only reason we went into Iraq was OIL and to make Bushie buddies Richer.
Dawn You need to listen to her tape because she did call Rep. John Murtha a coward.
November 21st, 2005 at 3:31 pmDAVE-- I can't believe her comments have your pink panties in a knot!! I think if anything she will draw more support for her re-election...
Her calling you lefies out by playing the coward card is GREAT!! You guys should just let it drop but you are keeping it alive..
Cutting and running is cowardly and by relaying the letter of a voter in her district she got her point accross. BIG TIME!!! if not getting re-elected is the cost so what... it was worth it..
November 21st, 2005 at 3:36 pmBTW
Since you wanted to bring up Clinton's lack of service (btw, what makes you think I liked Clinton, and WHAT makes you think I am a democrat?) I thought I would list a few of the more prominent Republican and Democrats service (or lack therof) service records). Since we love to purport the gung ho brave republicans are so patriotic, and the democrats are the chicken tree hugging sissys' lets take a look at the actual facts on the two parties most popular and outspoken leaders.
Republican Military records show;
* Dick Cheney: did not serve. Five deferments, had "other" priorities....the
last by marriage.
* Dennis Hastert: did not serve.
* Tom Delay: did not serve.
* Roy Blunt: did not serve.
* Bill Frist: did not serve.
* Mitch McConnell: did not serve.
* Rick Santorum: did not serve.
* Trent Lott: did not serve.
* John Ashcroft: did not serve. Seven deferments to
teach business.
* Jeb Bush: did not serve.
* Karl Rove: did not serve.
* Saxby Chambliss: did not serve. "Bad knee." The man
who attacked Cleland's patriotism.
* Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve.
* Vin Weber: did not serve.
* Richard Perle: did not serve.
* Douglas Feith: did not serve.
* Eliot Abrams: did not serve.
* Richard Shelby: did not serve.
* Jon Kyl: did not serve.
* Tim Hutchison: did not serve.
* Christopher Cox: did not serve.
* Newt Gingrich: did not serve.
* Don Rumsfeld: served in Navy (1954-57) as flight
instructor.
* George W. Bush: failed to complete his six-year
Air National Guard tour of duty; got assigned to Alabama so he could
campaign for family friend running for U.S. Senate; failed to show up for required medical exam, disappeared from duty.
* Ronald Reagan: due to poor eyesight, served in a
non-combat role making movies.
* B-1 Bob Dornan: Consciously enlisted after fighting
was over in Korea.
* Phil Gramm: did not serve.
* John McCain: Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of
Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross.
* Dana Rohrabacher: did not serve.
* John M. McHugh: did not serve.
* JC Watts: did not serve.
* Jack Kemp: did not serve. "Knee problem," although
continued in NFL for 8 years.
* Dan Quayle: Journalism unit of the Indiana National
Guard.
* Rudy Giuliani: did not serve.
* George Pataki: did not serve.
* Spencer Abraham: did not serve.
* John Engler: did not serve.
* Lindsey Graham: National Guard lawyer.
* Arnold Schwarzenegger: AWOL from Austrian army
base.
Pundits & Preachers
* Sean Hannity: did not serve.
* Rush Limbaugh: did not serve (4-F with a
'pilonidal cyst.')
* Bill O'Reilly: did not serve.
* Michael Savage: did not serve.
* George Will: did not serve.
* Chris Matthews: did not serve.
* Paul Gigot: did not serve.
* Bill Bennett: did not serve.
* Pat Buchanan: did not serve.
* John Wayne: did not serve.
* Bill Kristol: did not serve.
* Kenneth Starr: did not serve.
* Antonin Scalia: did not serve.
* Clarence Thomas: did not serve.
* Ralph Reed: did not serve.
* Michael Medved: did not serve.
* Charlie Daniels: did not serve.
* Ted Nugent: did not serve. (He only shoots at
things that don't shoot back.)
* Ted Kennedy : 2 years US Army
* Richard Gephardt: Air National Guard, 1965-71
* David Bonior: Staff Sgt., Air Force 1968-72
* Tom Daschle: 1st Lt., Air Force SAC 1969-72.
* Al Gore: enlisted Aug. 1969; sent to Vietnam Jan.
1971 as an army journalist in 20th Engineer Brigade.
* Bob Kerrey: Lt. j.g. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor,
Vietnam.
* Daniel Inouye: Army 1943-47; Medal of Honor, WWII.
* John Kerry: Lt., Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze
Star with Combat V, Purple Hearts.
* Charles Rangel: Staff Sgt., Army 1948-52; Bronze
Star, Korea.
* Max Cleland: Captain, Army 1965-68; Silver Star &
Bronze Star, Vietnam.
* Ted Kennedy: Army, 1951-53.
* Tom Harkin: Lt., Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve,
1968-74.
* Jack Reed: Army Ranger, 1971-1979; Captain, Army
Reserve 1979-91.
* Fritz Hollings: Army officer in WWII; Bronze Star
and seven campaign ribbons.
* Leonard Boswell: Lt. Col., Army 1956-76; Vietnam,
DFCs, Bronze Stars, and Soldier's Medal.
* Pete Peterson: Air Force Captain, POW. Purple
Heart, Silver Star and Legion of Merit.
* Mike Thompson: Staff sergeant, 173rd Airborne,
Purple Heart.
* Bill McBride: Candidate for Fla. Governor. Marine in
Vietnam; Bronze Star with Combat V.
* Gray Davis: Army Captain in Vietnam, Bronze Star.
* Pete Stark: Air Force 1955-57
* Chuck Robb: Vietnam
* Howell Heflin: Silver Star
* George McGovern: Silver Star & DFC during WWII.
* Bill Clinton: Did not serve. Student deferments.
Entered draft but received #311.
* Jimmy Carter: Seven years in the Navy. Graduate of Naval Academy, Annapolis, MD.
* Walter Mondale: Army 1951-1953
* John Glenn: WWII and Korea; six DFCs and Air Medal
with 18 Clusters.
* Tom Lantos: Served in Hungarian underground in WWII
_______________________________________________________
Kinda puts it all in a little perspective, at least for those of us with working brains.
November 21st, 2005 at 3:45 pmWORFEUS---
The president said Iraq's refusal to cooperate with U.N. weapons inspectors presented a threat to the entire world.
"Saddam (Hussein) must not be allowed to threaten his neighbors or the world with nuclear arms, poison gas or biological weapons,"
"Earlier today I ordered America's armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq. They are joined by British forces,"
"Their mission is to attack Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors
- Feb. 17 1998 President Clinton..
We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country." — Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction." — Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002
"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do" — Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002
My personal favorite!
"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members … It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons." — Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002
I guess all of those weapons talked about were real then.. and not now..
The BIG OIL excuse isn't catching on... Everyone is done with that
As far as Murtha.. I still stand by my statement... If you were a computer expert in 1985 and then suddenly quit. You will not be a computer expert in 2005
And since it has resorted to calling me names.. Leads me to believe that you are out of Democratic / Michael Moore talking points..
You and Cindy Sheehan should re adujust your tin foil hats.
November 21st, 2005 at 3:52 pmOne more verse, same as the first;
Republican Military records show;
* Dick Cheney: did not serve. Five deferments, had “other†priorities….the
last by marriage.
* Dennis Hastert: did not serve.
* Tom Delay: did not serve.
* Roy Blunt: did not serve.
* Bill Frist: did not serve.
* Mitch McConnell: did not serve.
* Rick Santorum: did not serve.
* Trent Lott: did not serve.
* John Ashcroft: did not serve. Seven deferments to
teach business.
* Jeb Bush: did not serve.
* Karl Rove: did not serve.
* Saxby Chambliss: did not serve. “Bad knee.†The man
who attacked Cleland’s patriotism.
* Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve.
* Vin Weber: did not serve.
* Richard Perle: did not serve.
* Douglas Feith: did not serve.
* Eliot Abrams: did not serve.
* Richard Shelby: did not serve.
* Jon Kyl: did not serve.
* Tim Hutchison: did not serve.
* Christopher Cox: did not serve.
* Newt Gingrich: did not serve.
* Don Rumsfeld: served in Navy (1954-57) as flight
instructor.
* George W. Bush: failed to complete his six-year
Air National Guard tour of duty; got assigned to Alabama so he could
campaign for family friend running for U.S. Senate; failed to show up for required medical exam, disappeared from duty.
* Ronald Reagan: due to poor eyesight, served in a
non-combat role making movies.
* B-1 Bob Dornan: Consciously enlisted after fighting
was over in Korea.
* Phil Gramm: did not serve.
* John McCain: Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of
Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross.
* Dana Rohrabacher: did not serve.
* John M. McHugh: did not serve.
* JC Watts: did not serve.
* Jack Kemp: did not serve. “Knee problem,†although
continued in NFL for 8 years.
* Dan Quayle: Journalism unit of the Indiana National
Guard.
* Rudy Giuliani: did not serve.
* George Pataki: did not serve.
* Spencer Abraham: did not serve.
* John Engler: did not serve.
* Lindsey Graham: National Guard lawyer.
* Arnold Schwarzenegger: AWOL from Austrian army
base.
Pundits & Preachers
* Sean Hannity: did not serve.
* Rush Limbaugh: did not serve (4-F with a
‘pilonidal cyst.’)
* Bill O’Reilly: did not serve.
* Michael Savage: did not serve.
* George Will: did not serve.
* Chris Matthews: did not serve.
* Paul Gigot: did not serve.
* Bill Bennett: did not serve.
* Pat Buchanan: did not serve.
* John Wayne: did not serve.
* Bill Kristol: did not serve.
* Kenneth Starr: did not serve.
* Antonin Scalia: did not serve.
* Clarence Thomas: did not serve.
* Ralph Reed: did not serve.
* Michael Medved: did not serve.
* Charlie Daniels: did not serve.
* Ted Nugent: did not serve. (He only shoots at
things that don’t shoot back.)
_______________________________________________________
DEMOCRAT MILITARY RECORDS SHOW;
* Ted Kennedy : 2 years US Army
* Richard Gephardt: Air National Guard, 1965-71
* David Bonior: Staff Sgt., Air Force 1968-72
* Tom Daschle: 1st Lt., Air Force SAC 1969-72.
* Al Gore: enlisted Aug. 1969; sent to Vietnam Jan.
1971 as an army journalist in 20th Engineer Brigade.
* Bob Kerrey: Lt. j.g. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor,
Vietnam.
* Daniel Inouye: Army 1943-47; Medal of Honor, WWII.
* John Kerry: Lt., Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze
Star with Combat V, Purple Hearts.
* Charles Rangel: Staff Sgt., Army 1948-52; Bronze
Star, Korea.
* Max Cleland: Captain, Army 1965-68; Silver Star &
Bronze Star, Vietnam.
* Ted Kennedy: Army, 1951-53.
* Tom Harkin: Lt., Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve,
1968-74.
* Jack Reed: Army Ranger, 1971-1979; Captain, Army
Reserve 1979-91.
* Fritz Hollings: Army officer in WWII; Bronze Star
and seven campaign ribbons.
* Leonard Boswell: Lt. Col., Army 1956-76; Vietnam,
DFCs, Bronze Stars, and Soldier’s Medal.
* Pete Peterson: Air Force Captain, POW. Purple
Heart, Silver Star and Legion of Merit.
* Mike Thompson: Staff sergeant, 173rd Airborne,
Purple Heart.
* Bill McBride: Candidate for Fla. Governor. Marine in
Vietnam; Bronze Star with Combat V.
* Gray Davis: Army Captain in Vietnam, Bronze Star.
* Pete Stark: Air Force 1955-57
* Chuck Robb: Vietnam
* Howell Heflin: Silver Star
* George McGovern: Silver Star & DFC during WWII.
* Bill Clinton: Did not serve. Student deferments.
Entered draft but received #311.
* Jimmy Carter: Seven years in the Navy. Graduate of Naval Academy, Annapolis, MD.
* Walter Mondale: Army 1951-1953
* John Glenn: WWII and Korea; six DFCs and Air Medal
with 18 Clusters.
* Tom Lantos: Served in Hungarian underground in WWII
November 21st, 2005 at 3:54 pmFrighteningFred, you keep telling yourself that but it is funny how fast other Republicans are distancing themselves from this smelly turd. btw, love how all you bootlickers pick up all talking points and sound bites so readily, "cut and run" etc, do you guys ever think or for that matter speak for yoursleves?
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. - Benjamin Franklin.
November 21st, 2005 at 3:55 pmWho resort to name calling? I would not talk if I wrer you.
November 21st, 2005 at 3:55 pmShe said it was a message to the congressman not about him. This is VERY simple to understand. Seems like you're grasping at straws with this site. I suppose the argument over semantics is due to the lack of anything real to say. Do you really think there are that many people who are stupid enough to fall for this kind of propaganda?
November 21st, 2005 at 3:56 pmDAVE-
November 21st, 2005 at 4:01 pmAs far as distancing themselves? Well 403 decided NOT to distance themselves from this.. So stuff that in your tin foil hat.
I could care less if republicans are distancing themselves from this.. I SAID I WAS PLEASED with it.
WORFEUS THANKS FOR PUTTING THAT INFORMATION OUT AGAIN.
That Rep. Danny Bubp had no right to say Rep. Murtha is a coward becuse Bubp was never in combat.
November 21st, 2005 at 4:04 pmBTW Fred, I served as a paratrooper in the 82'nd Airborne division and would knock you on your ass faster than you could say "pink panties"
November 21st, 2005 at 4:05 pmWORFEUS
Thanks for the download off of Michaels site..
Because that is what I think about when I vote.. How many medals they do or don't earn.. Or in John Kerry's case.... pencil whip.
oops..sorry worfeus.. Military term.. That means cheat.
BTW--I never knew Bill O'Riely or Rush were running for public office..
November 21st, 2005 at 4:06 pmYou are wrong she said that Rep. Murtha was a coward. Listen to the video. Jean Schmidt will not be in congress very long.
November 21st, 2005 at 4:09 pmDAVE-- hey Dave.. So how many chutes did you pack?
I personally never had to jump out of a plane.. but I was in the infantry... and you know something.. I highly doubt you can kick my ass.. seriosuly...
November 21st, 2005 at 4:10 pmI never packed my own chute, they had riggers for that.
November 21st, 2005 at 4:12 pmHey WORFEUS,
I have not heard a SINGLE Republican advance the "if you haven't served, you have no business commenting on the War" mantra... That's the territory of the Democrats.
Just like "you're repeating what I said, so that's a 'personal attack'" is chanted by Democrats, NOT Republicans.
I think it's a safe bet that ANYONE who voted for their Senators and member of the House of Representatives KNOWS their military service (or, more likely, thinks that their military service is NOT IMPORTANT [with respect to their ability to LEGISLATE (which is their job, after all)]).
I KNOW, for example, that one of MY Senators was NEVER a lawyer (shocking, I know) - nor has she served in the Armed Forces... It simply is NOT a part of her resume that ANYONE GIVES A CRAP about...
Ditto for ANYONE ELSE who wishes to comment, complain, arm-chair quarterback... EVERYONE is entitled to voice their opinion (unlike the Saddam Regime, or Taliban governments [wait, NEITHER of those exist anymore, do they?] HERE, you are free to speak your mind - EVEN if you call for COWARDLY withdrawal of troops, or suggest that someone who IS suggesting an act of cowardace is, in point of fact, a COWARD...
YOU, are free to agree or disagree (I really don't care) - but I'll be DAMNED if I'm going to sit around and allow the "Left" set the agenda, or frame the argument WHEN THEY ARE WRONG!
AND, when they're RIGHT - I'LL say so, too (it doesn't happen very often anyway)... For example, those 187 Democrats who joined the 215 Republicans in voting NO to H. Res 571, did EXACTLY the right thing (it just too bad that their RHETORIC over the past weeks does not correspond to their VOTE).
But, hey, you go right on believing Cindy Sheehan and Michael Moore. I'll bet you're proudly wearing that "Neville Chamberlain was Right!" t-shirt, too.
I'm sure, if you asked ANY member of the Armed Services, they, too, would tell you that they are fighting for (and willing to die to) protect YOUR right to be WRONG(whether you like it, or not)!
November 21st, 2005 at 4:16 pmNice try at testing my veracity though fred. I guess that proves you are capable of at least some original thought, or did you really think paratroopers packed their own chutes?
November 21st, 2005 at 4:19 pmDAVE-- the chute thing was a joke.. anyway...maybe you will get it later..
AND Thanks for serving..
support your brothers in harms way!
They'd do the same for you.
November 21st, 2005 at 4:19 pmNo genius, I am not a democrat, and I am not a stinking republican either. I think for myself (something you should try sometime, it's hard and it takes some will but you can do it if you want).
It's funny how you choose to quote Bill Clinton on Iraq. Bill Clinton is NOT the president and is not in charge. Bush is. Bill Clinton did not start the war in Iraq, Bush did. I am not in here defending Bill Clinton, and I don't know how much clearer I can be about that. But all of that is moot anyway.
You seem to believe that because Iraq may or may not have possesed WMD that that somehow makes a difference. I don't care WHAT they possess or possessed. It does not justfy the murder of their people. America is not a coward who lashes out at every small country that may one day down the road offer some sort of threat to us. It takes courage to be an American. Courage and restraint go hand in hand. Having power, and using it are two different things.
And saying Iraq was a brave act to protect Americans is a load of CRAP.
Here's an example.
For all your tough talk, North Korea called you and your republican cronies out a while back. They lsapped a gauntlet in your face.
Just as we were defending our decision to go into Iraq becasue they "might" possess WMD, North Korea came out and said hey "we DO possess" WMD, and they also said "what you Americans gonna do about it?".
And what did all the tough talking republicans do? After all, Iraq could not hit the broadside of a barn during Deseret Storm to their neighbors in Isreal with a SCUD, and did not present near the threat of North Korea, who cleaned our clocks back in the 50's and we ended up calling a truce with, and who does have missles capable of reaching US bases in Guam and Alaska.
Now we had a real war facing us down. A war with a real army, real tanks, reak nukes and a lot of freaking soldiers. And what did the mighty republican war machine do? Did they stand up and order the dismantling of these illegal nukes? Did we move in our military and build up for an all out assault? After all North Korea presents a "real threat" compared to a country that does NOT EVEN HAVE A NAVY or ANY long range capabilites whatsoever. Did we perform our Pre-emptive strikes then? We did on Iraq so we must do it here right. If Iraq was to protect us then we must attack North Korea as well. But did we. Of course not.
What about China tough guy? China who presents a real threat beyond anything you or I can probably imagine. Do we talk tough with them? Or do we attend state dinners, and push bantar and comprimise?
You guys love to talk tough, that is until the going gets tough. You are like the bullies I remember in school, always picking on the littlest kids, but when someone like me, who stood up to them, and had some mucscle to back it up with stepped up, they always shrink into the "oh I didn't mean you" or "oh I don't have a problem with you" ramblings. Love to pick on the little guys don't you?
Our sending our military to fight Iraq was equivilent to putting Mike Tyson in the ring with DON KNOTT's.
It was not brave, it was not righteous, and it was not to "protect us". Our reaction to North Korea and other "real" threats in the world make it clear "that dog won't hunt".
November 21st, 2005 at 4:19 pmWhat makes you right? The point is the House did not debate Rep. Murtha amendment it was Hunter amendment. They voted on Hunter Amendment not Murtha. You are DEAD WRONG.
November 21st, 2005 at 4:24 pmAhhh kinda like how Jean Schmidt's comments to Murtha were a joke, I get it now.
November 21st, 2005 at 4:24 pmSorry, WORFEUS,
I forgot to correct one other TINY LITTLE mistake...
The United States did NOT "start" the war Iraq.
Try to follow along, I'll type slowly, so you can keep up...
I should simply suggest that you go find this for yourself, but I know you won't so...
H.J.Res 114 (voted on 11-OCT-2002, 77 YES, 23 NO):
"Whereas in 1990 in response to Iraq's war of aggression against and illegal occupation of Kuwait, the United States forged a coalition of nations to liberate Kuwait and its people in order to defend the national security of the United States and enforce United Nations Security Council resolutions relating to Iraq;
Whereas after the liberation of Kuwait in 1991, Iraq entered into a United Nations sponsored cease-fire agreement...
The President is authorized to use the Armed Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary and appropriate in order to ... enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq."
Now, the Cliff's Notes version: "in response to Iraq's war" (Saddam Started this); "Iraq entered into a United Nations sponsored cease-fire agreement" (The war did not END).
In as much as Saddam was given, what was it, 12 YEARS to comply with the, 17 (more or less) United Nations Resolutions DEMANDING that he COMPLY with the aforementioned CEASE-FIRE or face "serious consequences"... Well, guess what... We're still in the midst of those "serious consequences".
Or, to put it simply (for you Liberals) - THE CEASE-FIRE ageement was broken BY SADDAM - ergo, the WAR (the PREVIOUS WAR) is "back on"...
Or, for you Politically Correct numbskulls, Saddam’s “timeout†was declared OVER, and the game was back on… That “game†is called WAR. It’s the SAME WAR, it’s not a NEW ONE…
November 21st, 2005 at 4:36 pmWorfeus.
I believe the guys who flew the planes into the buildings had arab names.. The muslim radicals and the countries they thrive in are a little higher on the radar screen.
If diplomacy worked for them.. maybe we'd have used that.. but since it is hard to find the little buggers, scratch that one off the list.
Since N. Korea is an actual country that is at least willing to talk maybe we could use......damn lost it...what did I say before....Oh wait ....It's coming......
Wanna know?
Diplomacy!!!
Same with China... We know they are aggressive and talk smack... We can deal with them but lets give a little diplomacy a whirl.. And you know... It is kind of working.. KIM JONG is talking and Bush is in ASIA as we speak.
November 21st, 2005 at 4:38 pmHey M. Ward
Thanks for the memory refresh!
Worfeus... I almost forgot.. We are still in Korea.. about 30,000 of us.
just enough to hold off anything until the cavalry gets there... And they can be there quick.
November 21st, 2005 at 4:43 pmCorrect me if I’m wrong, but Jean looks a little thin to me. I mean, some of you would say that she is just another anorexic Repugnican bitch.
She runs marathons, when she is not making a fool of herself or protesting at abortion clinics.
November 21st, 2005 at 4:45 pmLarry
Thank you so much for your thoughtful addition to the conversation.
Your command of the english language only confirms your educational up bringing as being a total dumbass!
November 21st, 2005 at 4:53 pmYea genuis, and we also had a Armistance with North Korea that was just broken by their admittance of WMD.
What did you do about that tough guy? Nothing. Not a damnded thing.
You like to pick on the small and defenseless so you can attend state dinners and tell yourselves what wonderful military strategists you all are, but I know a buzzard when I smell one. Buzzards always go for the easy kill or the leavings of another. They never pick fights with the big cats.
All the world told you know to go into Iraq. All the world said it was wrong. But a select handful of you, perhaps we could call you the "chosen ones" saw the truth. You all saw that this tiny little country, this country that never presented the least threat to American shores, would somehow one day become a danger, so you rode off on your gallant steeds to quelch the evil beast of Bagdad.
Never mind that North Korea, who is prohibited by international agreement from having nuclear weapons had just confessed to having them. Forget that a ship load of Nuclear Missle casing was intercepted on it's way to Yemmin and originating from North Korea, forget that the their leader announced he no longer recognized the Armistice signed with the US, just go show the world how tough we are by kicking the crap out of a small tiny nation that allready had the crap kicked out of it by the world a a decade earlier.
You know, I think you actually believe your own load of crap. I've got news for you M. Ward. Their is a seat waiting for you, a seat in history, alongside many other greats, like Himmler, Goebels, Goering and others. Men who believed that their Christian righteousness made them above the "chaff of the masses" and that whatever evils they committed in the name of Christ were somehow good. Christians have ALWAYS felt the need to kill Muslims. It has always been "our holy war" our "Jihad".
No doubt you will now want to remind us all of how we were attacked by Muslims on 911 so we had to go kill muslims in Iraq. Hey they all wear turbins right? And murder isn't murder if it's to protect our precious fat american fanny's from some threat down the road that may or may not occur. (monkey's have a better chance of flying out of your butt than Iraq ever had of striking US soil)
And hey, don't worry. Your place in history, and in the heaven in which you believe is assured. God will welcome you with open arms. And if he asks you funny questions about 8 year old Iraqi girls arms ripped apart by your bullets and bombs, then just explain to him how you thought they might want to hurt you some day. Oh yea, don't forget to tell God how brave you were.
All I can say to you is "Godspeed" to you sir, you and your merry band of righteous knightly crusaders. And I'll see you at the fish fry.
November 21st, 2005 at 4:58 pmMary Popins,
If you can READ (it's okay if you move your lips)...
"He asked me to send Congress a message: Stay the course. He also asked me to send Congressman Murtha a message - that cowards cut and run, Marines never do."
That's from the transcript...
NOTE: "HE ASKED ME" - now, I know it's not THAT hard to grasp... the "that cowards cut and run" comment is (allegedly) from the "HE".
Also, it does not say, "Hey, Congressman Murtha, YOU are a coward." It simply states an undeniable TRUTH - that cutting and running from a battle IS an act of cowardice.
You can rant and rave all you like, but you CANNOT re-write history... You CANNOT simply assert facts which are so easily refuted (like Dan Rather's memos, for example)...
But don't let me stop you... You go right on hating Bush, and Conservatives...
I will leave you with this little bit of advice, though... Conservatives CAN be convinced to change our minds... We simply need FACTS to back up the argument... "Bush Lied", "Haliburton", "Cheney", "Rumsfeld", "Rove", "Oil" simply does NOTHING for us...
Basically, if it fits on a bumper sticker - it means NOTHING to us... BUT, we know it rules your world, SO, here's a few of mine...
"I support the Troops - NOT Cindy Sheehan".
"I Live Better - YOU work union"
"Kerry got Swift-Boats - Murtha got Swift VOTES".
November 21st, 2005 at 5:05 pm1.they got WMD's from Clinton
2.The world? the world did not vote.. Only about 5 of them did. 3 to 2..
How about France Germany and China didn't want us to go to war and expose the OIL FOR PALACES scandal!!!!
Oh yeah.. forgot about that.. GUILTY right up to Chriac himself!!!!!
And 3. I was wondering when you were going to start comparing the republicans to Nazis.. It took you something like 5 posts.. I am impressed that you held out for so long..
It's old... Your comparison of nazis to republicans exposes how little you know about fascism and communism.
You need to stop watching Bowling for Columbine and F911 and read a little.
Talk to you all another day.
I am out
November 21st, 2005 at 5:05 pmAgain, WORFEUS,
Only because YOU brought it up... The 9/11 attack WAS, indeed, carried out by "Muslim male extremists, mostly between the ages of 17 and 40"...
BUT, and this is where you Libs get a bit off message...
The 9/11 "counter-attack" was in Afghanistan (which the Democrats SAY they supported) - NOT Iraq...
We are NOT fighting in Iraq BECAUSE of 9/11 (like we think that Iraqis flew planes into the World Trade Center)...
NO - try to keep up - there'll be a quiz later - Because Saddam VIOLATED the United Nations Resolutions (ALL of them) - the President (AND CONGRESS) decided that DIPLOMACY had been given MORE THAN ENOUGH TIME - with NOTHING to show for it...
You know, when you can get a UNANIMOUS resolution passed (including France, and Germany and Syria) - declaring Saddam to be in "material breech" of ALL of the cease-fire and previous U.N. Resolutions - it CAN'T be based on Karl Rove, or Dick Cheney, or Haliburton - NO, not even "W" holds THAT MUCH clout...
I know I didn't mention Colin Powell, did I? Let's see... Was Colin Powell a stupid black man, who just went along with "W" because he's a "house slave"? Or did he LIE about the Intellegence? OR, as MOST people believe - He is an Honest, Decent, Brilliant man (who happens to be black), who, like almost everyone else - TRULY AND HONESTLY BELIEVED the Intellegence Reports?
November 21st, 2005 at 5:24 pmFred, I of course cannot be certain, maybe your a history proffessor or something, but I would wager that I know more about the rise and fall of the Nazi party on my worst day than you do on your best.
And the comparisons to the rise of the Nazi party aren't meant to say we are there, ...yet.
It took time, almost a decade in fact, for Hitler to complete his rise to full power and control of the German war machine. Hitler knew that the people would know roll over easily, so he lead them along, little by little, lie by lie. He convinced them that Poland, Poland if you can believe it, was somehow a threat to Germany, and a "pre-emptive" strike would be necessary to "keep the German people safe". Same with France. Same with the Jewish people.
Bush also was the first leader in his generation to introduce pre-emptive war to a civilian population. That is a fact. Not a theory, just a simple fact.
Like Hitler, Bush has labled a division of a large religous population as the "enemy". Hitler started with fundemental Jews, partisan zealots, and Bush uses fundemental Islam.
Like Hilter, Bush surrounded himself with his cronies and appointed many unqualified and questionable characters to high level cabinet positions.
Like Hitler, Bushes election was questionable at best. You can argue it wasn;t but more than HALF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE disagreed with you. The MAJORITY disagreed, but the minority won.
Like Hitler, bush used the actions of a few radical terrorists to introced the "enabling act" which reduced the civil liberties of the German people by claiming they were at war and needed to, even though the only war they were at was one they were easily dominating (although they NEVER could control the insurgent rebellion)and that they started.
Like Hitler, Bush was a little accomplished man prior to his rise to power. Both were monuments to mediocrity, and yet both became rulers with iron fists.
Both used intelligence that was cherry picked at best to justify their wars.
And the list goes on. But I am not here to prove that their is some mystical conspiracy. We are certainly not Nazi Germany yet. But we are certainly making many of the SAME MISTAKES that helped launch "die tausand jarh riech". If you can't see the similarites, then you just don't want to. Everyone else can.
Over the holocaust museum here in DC there is an inscription over the doorway. "so we may never forget".
You think it's impossible for us to become as evil and notorious as Nazi germany? You think we can't walk down that road? All we have to do to walk down that road is keep going the way we are going. Keep allowing religous nuts like Ashcroft who believes he can speak in tounges, make laws and pass acts that are almost identical to Hitlers "enabling act". Keep voting in men who love to wage war but are afraid to fight in one. Keep believing that the blood of an American is worth more than the blood of an Iraqi in the eyes of this God you supposedly believe in.
But don't think that the world is going to stand by and watch. Why do you think Russia and China for the first time in history have just completed the first ever joint tactical operations and war games? They said it was to "stabilize a small, fictional occupied country". Hmm,,,now where is one of those?
Keep it up, and you may get the real war you've always wanted. Keep it up, and you and me won't be disagreening on anything anymore. Well be too busy diggin our foxholes and watching each others backs.
Keep it up.
November 21st, 2005 at 5:37 pmP.S
November 21st, 2005 at 5:38 pmI meant M. Ward. Sorry Fred.