VIDEO: Schmidt’s Shame
VIDEO: Schmidt’s Shame
Rep. Jean Schmidt (R-OH) today on the House floor, speaking about Rep. John Murtha (D-PA), a decorated former Marine:
Yesterday I stood at Arlington National Cemetery attending the funeral of a young marine in my district. He believed in what we were doing is the right thing and had the courage to lay his life on the line to do it. A few minutes ago I received a call from Colonel Danny Bubp, Ohio Representative from the 88th district in the House of Representatives. He asked me to send Congress a message: Stay the course. He also asked me to send Congressman Murtha a message, that cowards cut and run, Marines never do. Danny and the rest of America and the world want the assurance from this body – that we will see this through.
Schmidt was later forced to return to the House floor and have her remarks stricken from the record. Despite having said the purpose of her “coward” statement was to “send Congressman Murtha a message,” Schmidt claimed:
Mr. Speaker, my remarks were not directed to any member of the House and I did not intend to suggest they applied to any member, most especially the distinguished gentleman from Pennsylvania.
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Marines don’t decide if we fight wars. Neither does Schmidt.
November 18th, 2005 at 6:46 pmWhat a flaming B*TCH. Quite the flattering picture, too. Good job, TP!
November 18th, 2005 at 6:46 pmThat’s it we’re pissed……….Filibuster Alito Now
If they want to play the eye for an eye game then oblige them.
To speak out is PATRIOTIC to follow blindly is MORONIC!
http://www.illmethinks.com
g
November 18th, 2005 at 6:47 pmbring them down….it’s time
http://www.illmethinks.com
g
November 18th, 2005 at 6:47 pmSomeone should have aborted her political career a long time ago. What an evil creepy and insane bitch that woman is! (Sorry to bitches everywhere to compare you to her)
November 18th, 2005 at 6:49 pm“A few minutes ago I received a call from Colonel Danny Bop, Ohio Representative from the 88th district in the House of Representatives. He asked me to send Congress a message: Stay the course. He also asked me to send Congressman Murtha a message, that cowards cut and run,”
We know, cowards have girls do their talking for them.
November 18th, 2005 at 6:51 pmThis is getting nuts….
November 18th, 2005 at 6:53 pmWATCH THE VOTE LIVE
http://www.bareknucklepolitics.com
The vote is soon…
Hmmm… Seems to me that “Cowards withdraw their statements, Heros stand by them…”
November 18th, 2005 at 6:54 pmo’reillian satire on the house floor? they’ve really sunk to a new low now.
November 18th, 2005 at 6:58 pmWho in the hell does she represent? This is crazy! You think she spent all her political capital in one place?
November 18th, 2005 at 7:00 pmJust for the record it’s not Colonel Danny Bop, it’s Colonel Danny R. Bubp.
Maybe he should explain his comments to Schmidt about Congressman Murtha! Contact info below;
http://www.house.state.oh.us/jsps/MemberDetails.jsp?DISTRICT=88
November 18th, 2005 at 7:05 pmThe military does not decide foriegn policy, civilians do. We are not run by a military junta….yet!
November 18th, 2005 at 7:06 pmThat video of Ms. Schmidt calling a decorated war veteran and long distinguished member of the House of Reps a ‘coward’ will make a nice campaign ad for her opponent in the next election.
She barely won that seat .. hopefully this despicable display will ensure her defeat.
November 18th, 2005 at 7:07 pmA political nobody trying to get her name in the national papers by using an over the cliff smear. Seen it before haven’t we?
November 18th, 2005 at 7:13 pmI just love the whole “Troops support the war and believe in it because they are there and they die”. I can tell you from personal experience as a Desert Storm combat vet that military personnel have zero say in what goes on and are expected to perform regardless of politics. Personally I hated both wars and felt the best support you could give me, as a soldier, was to get my butt out of there and back home.
Disrespecting the troops involves making them fight and die for fabricated reasons while attacking anyone trying to bring them home.
November 18th, 2005 at 7:15 pmShe looks like she is going to go to a tacky country line dance off. I should help out her Democratic opponent in 2006.
November 18th, 2005 at 7:19 pmWas Col. Bop a Republican per chance? Our service men and women will kill and be killed without compromise or question. That is why our elected representatives have to take control of this fiasco and bring our troops home. If one looks at the diary of a flight surgeon in Iraqon the New England Journal of Medicine, where he discusses and illustrates
November 18th, 2005 at 7:20 pmgraphically “typical” wounds, you can see how horrifically our soldiers are being maimed and disfigured. If the likes of Jean Schmidt can look at those images and still support our tropps then she probably didn’t give birth to her children, rather she hatched them.
Mickey Mouse could run against her in the next election, with only one campaign commercial, cut directly from CSPAN.
November 18th, 2005 at 7:22 pmLook at her disrespecting my flag with that crappy dress.
November 18th, 2005 at 7:23 pmhttp://www.crooksandliars.com has a more appropriate pic of the tick.
Jean Full of Schmidt
Jean Schmidt, who defeated Iraq war veteran Paul Hackett for her seat in Ohio, shut down the House of Representatives by challenging the courage of decorated Vietnam War veteran Jack Murtha, saying “cowards cut and run.” The place exploded. It was probably everybody pulling out their Blackberries and Googling Jean Schmidt’s war record, where they no doubt found her history as the head of Cincinnati Right to Life. Presumably if Murtha’s combat experience had been blowing up local Planned Parenthood clinics, that would have qualified.
November 18th, 2005 at 7:25 pmposted by Jane at firedoglake
I don’t care if this lady is a Stooge or a Patriot she was elected. I just have to laugh at the outrage, are you all mad because her constiuents were fooled or maybe just maybe they agree with her? If the current administration is to blame for any of this mess it’s the quick we don’t have time for healthy debate we could be ruined by waiting, while also recogonizing the political suicide by the ELECTED offficials not clicking their heels and saying well better them than us. Communism, Islamofascism, what’s next Pandoepidemilogicalpathogenism? Fear it does a party good.
November 18th, 2005 at 7:25 pmPretty pathetic! Think about it, Cheney could not respond effectively to the “5 deferments” comments to they had to find a female shill.
What a coward Cheney is!
November 18th, 2005 at 7:25 pmWhat’s the matter with Ohio?
November 18th, 2005 at 7:28 pmDisrespecting the troops involves making them fight and die for fabricated reasons while attacking anyone trying to bring them home.
Comment by nada — November 18, 2005 @ 7:15 pm
I couldn’t have said it better.
Welcome aboard.
November 18th, 2005 at 7:30 pmI think her hair was pulled back a little too tight. All she needs is a broom.
November 18th, 2005 at 7:33 pm#23
I got relatives in Ohio. It is not them. My relatives fully believe as do many of the residents in Ohio that their state was used to get Bush re-elected.
November 18th, 2005 at 7:34 pmAmazing display of hubris. Exploitation. Partisanship.
November 18th, 2005 at 7:34 pmIt was noted on another thread here that she is the one who eked out a victory over Paul Hackett, the Iraq veteran who ran for the Ohio House. THIS is what Ohio got instead of him!!
They should be discusted.
I’m a former Marine.
Considering that this Marine she spoke of is now dead; he may have believed in what he was doing up until a point, but we’ll never know if he thinks that the price he paid was “worth it” now that he’s paid it.
November 18th, 2005 at 7:35 pmFIRE THE BITCH, BETTER YET! SEND HER ASS TO IRAQ!
November 18th, 2005 at 7:37 pmJean Schmitt won in OH due to voting irregularities, I’ll bet. Take a look at the crooked GOP political machine with their hand on the Diebold machines. Take a look at the latest report on the Bradblog. That’s why Paul Hackett isn’t in the House.
November 18th, 2005 at 7:38 pmBubp is still on active duty in the Marine Reserves and he’s not that old a guy. If Murtha’s the coward, why did Bubp have to send a woman to deliver the message, and why isn’t Bubp over in Iraq, where his experience and expertise could be doing some actual good. We know who the true cowards are.
November 18th, 2005 at 7:38 pmWhat a PATRIOTIC outfit! That’s pretty close to the American flag, so does that break any flag laws? (Kidding)
But I bet she wore that outfit specifically for her little message of Democrats being cowards.
November 18th, 2005 at 7:38 pmEveryone is talking about Draft Dodger Dick Cheney’s five draft deferments. That’s cool!
Also, please don’t forget that Congressman Jack Murtha had been a Colonel in the Marine Corps for almost a decade when Dick Cheney –a shiftless, pudgy, drunken, punk– was still getting busted for DUI:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/cheneydwi1.html
November 18th, 2005 at 7:38 pmhttp://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/cheneydwi2.html
I just LOVE these shouting matches on the house floor. It brings out passion in these congress men and women.
What an awful woman by the way.
November 18th, 2005 at 7:40 pmWhat a dumb bitch…..But expected
November 18th, 2005 at 7:45 pmLet us not forget that Jean Schmidt barely beat democratic opponent Paul Hackett who was himself an Iraqi War veteran running in an overhelmingly Republican district. She does make a good conservative, though, and I’m sure the people of Ohio are very proud of the way she applies those Ohio Republican values by shooting her mouth off in congress and getting then getting booed.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but Jean looks a little thin to me. I mean, some of you would say that she is just another anorexic Repugnican bitch. Not me, of course, me being a redneck. I’m just wondering when her old man, Peter the stockbroker, last got into her pants. I mean, no wonder she is out running marathons all the time, and calling men “cowards” and such.
Peter, if you read this, you need to lay a little pipe, my man, as your old lady is one, mean, skinny-assed bitch.
November 18th, 2005 at 7:47 pm[...] Ohio should be proud. Again, they’ve elected a piece of Schmidt to office. What is with these people? How can these people assault a Congressman who’s served as cowardly with a President and Vice that hid in undisclosed locations playing with their GameBoys during Vietnam? What– was Murtha a Swift Boat panzie too? [...]
November 18th, 2005 at 7:47 pmIf you were to leave it tomilitary men we would constantly be at war. It’s what they train to do. I know, I was one.
November 18th, 2005 at 7:49 pmNow the idiot Cowboy, he just wanted to deploy the military to see how it felt to wield that power.
“Can I play soldier, uncle Cheney??? Can I Can I?”
If you were to leave it to military men we would constantly be at war. It’s what they train to do. I know, I was one.
November 18th, 2005 at 7:49 pmNow the Idiot Cowboy, he just wanted to deploy the military to see how it felt to wield that power.
“Can I play soldier, uncle Cheney??? Can I Can I?”
She can go to hell with all of the other bloodthirsty politicians.
November 18th, 2005 at 7:50 pmRichard,
Your comment was so choice I reposted it here– under a quick blog piece entitled:
A PIECE OF SCHMIDT
http://www.macliberals.com/wordpress/?p=357
November 18th, 2005 at 7:54 pmWho’s working that stick stuck up her butt? and is it thorney?
November 18th, 2005 at 7:57 pmAre her kids in Iraq? Well she has a daughter and two poodles.Not much to risk there.
The only military members and veterans progs seem to appreciate are from the “cut and run” pattern (i.e. John Kerry, John Murtha, Jimmy Cardigan, George Mc Govern, etc.) Whenever I hear a Dem extolling someone’s fine military career, I have a strong suspicion they are cut from the Wesley “Kumbaya” Clark pattern Now the real warrior in THAT family looks like Gert (aka Mrs. Wesley).
November 18th, 2005 at 7:59 pmIsn’t it interesting that she didn’t mention anyone in her family serving in this war. Maybe she will join the swift voters and say that Murtha didn’t earn his two purple hearts. I guess we can count on her as one who will loose their jobs in ‘06.
November 18th, 2005 at 8:01 pm“stay the course” What if the F’n bridge is OUT ahead bitch!
November 18th, 2005 at 8:01 pmSchmidt is pathetic. She stands up there like she’s accomplishing something. She had sacrificed nothing in her life. She didn’t understand the sorrow of the family whose funeral she attended. The hero is Murtha. He accomplished something. He spoke very elequently of sacrifice and sorrow. I could see his pain. This war is a waste.
November 18th, 2005 at 8:12 pmSchmidt, I don’t want to hear about your messages. I want to hear from someone who knows war. I want to hear Murtha’s statemnent not yours.
I used to be an Ohio State fan, but after their votes put Bush in office–GO MICHIGAN! The congress has been guilty of derelection of duty under the constitution(war powers act),abrogation of responsibility(too much time on steroids,at the expense of more pressing matters facing the nation),creating social unrest(faith based initiatives, interfereing in family matters such Shiavo,Malfeasance(permitting the deficit to grow without oversight). This congress serves at the pleasure of lobbyists and benefactors and not the American people. The spending habits of this congress has aided Bush in creating more debt in his administration that in all the previous administration before him. Where is the accountability?
November 18th, 2005 at 8:14 pmTHIS MEANS WAR, I HOPE YOU ALL ARE AWARE OF THAT!
November 18th, 2005 at 8:14 pmNO MARINE TAKES ANY CRAP LIKE THAT SITTING DOWN!!!
ESPECIALLY Congressman Murtha!!!!!
What’s the matter with Ohio? Diebold voting machines!! That’s how Republicans get elected there!!
November 18th, 2005 at 8:16 pmI’m waiting for Jean Schmidt to introduce a resolution stating that unless Reps dress in red, white, & blue then you are unpatriotic. C-Span is beating anything else on TV tonight.
November 18th, 2005 at 8:20 pmMy Message to Jean Schmidt-
How dare you question the courage, patriotism and legitimacy of a decorated Marine veteran on the House floor as a means of making a cheap, disgusting political point as the whore of the Republican Right? How dare you! You and your ilk disgust true patriots like myself, an Ohio State graduate and a son of another Marine officer.
We will destroy your political career and dispose of the lies, the manipulation, the self-serving profiteering that is draining this great country of it ideals, its standing in the world and killing thousands of people, Americans and others to no good purpose.
I promise you, you will pay politically. I dare you to come to this “rock ribbed Republican” State of New Hampshire and utter such vile and disgusting comments. Or are you too terrified to face us face to face and outside the “House of Lies” that the Republican-controlled House of Representatives has become. Come on! Coward!
Hoo Rah!
November 18th, 2005 at 8:20 pmMy Message to Jean Schmidt-
SAY YOUR SORRY, SAY IT ! SAY YOUR SORRY YOU LITTLE bi**H!!!!!!!!!
November 18th, 2005 at 8:24 pm#47
Nova16,
Ohio’s votes were rigged. I have relatives there. People are upset that the vote did not go the way they thought it should. Take a look at the exit poles and then heed the fact that the CEO (now resigned) for Diebold promised Bush Ohio. Does that make sense?
November 18th, 2005 at 8:27 pmit was the CFO that resigned… CEO walden (”we’ll deliver Ohio’s electoral votes to Bush”> is filling both positions for the moment.
November 18th, 2005 at 8:29 pm[...] Watch more Shame [...]
November 18th, 2005 at 8:31 pmThe Republican plan to vote on a resolution against withdrawing troops is simply a smear campaign to paint Democrats as unpatriotic wimps. They’re extremely loud about it and it usually works.
This time it has a double purpose.
The second purpose is to draw attention away from the reverse Robin Hood they’ve been playing with the budget. We really need to be talking about this extremely loudly.
November 18th, 2005 at 8:31 pmAccording to Bubp marines never cut and run. Do corporate security guards cut and run? cause that is what you are and were.
November 18th, 2005 at 8:33 pmThey are not coming home as long as there is oil to pump, bases to guard, and other countries to rip-off.
Jean Schmidt better watch out for twisters. A house might fall on her
November 18th, 2005 at 8:38 pmHey, somebody stick something in the bitches mouth!
November 18th, 2005 at 8:39 pmAfter watching CSPAN tonight it would seem that many of the Republican Reps. are not much more intelligent than the trolls that frequent this site. Scarey.
November 18th, 2005 at 8:41 pmHopefully, this furor will FINALLY wake everyone up in the country up to what many of us knew before we even went into Iraq. Just remember, you can wrap a pig up in an American flag and call it patriotic; some idiots will even salute it. But at the end of the day, it’s still….just….a pig. Just substitute “Iraq war” for pig and there you have it.
November 18th, 2005 at 8:49 pm[...] >> VIDEO: Schmidt’s Shame >> MORE: After watching the operations of the GOP in the House of Rep., there’s no way Malkin could call our side unhinged by any stretch of the mind. Oh, that would require a mind. Right. [...]
November 18th, 2005 at 8:51 pmWhat Murtha did was dastardly!
USMC (Retired)
November 18th, 2005 at 8:53 pmMighty aphordite #43, its me, Joe. Girl, I like the way you come in and call the exmilitary people here cut from the same cloth as Kerry, Clark, etc. Personally, I am a vet and I like old Wes Clark. You got to admit, all those you slammed sure have better military records and an understanding of war than those chickenhawk draftdodgers like Cheney, Wolfowitz, Ashcroft, and Dennis Hastert. You did know that all of them, including warhawks O’Reilly, Limbaugh, Newt Gingrich, Karl Rove and many others dodged the draft during the Vietnam War, didn’t you? And forget about Jean Schmidt, she’s too busy running marathons to serve her country.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought you said you served 12 years in the military? I mean, that being said, how could you ever, EVER side with that skinny-assed disgraceful bitch who called a war hero like Murtha a coward? Especially when Murtha has been a hawk and ardent supporter of the Bushwars. The libs here would say that “cutting and running” is as phony as “staying the course” because Rummy and Cheney don’t have clue on what hell they are doing.
Hey, aphrodite, do you agree with me that if Peter Schmidt was to poke his old lady now and then, Jean wouldn’t be such a hateful, brooding bitch, don’t you? I mean, really, isn’t she a bitter little twit, or what?
November 18th, 2005 at 8:58 pmWhat Jean Schmidt did was dastardly!
November 18th, 2005 at 8:59 pmUSMC(Ret.)
Wow, the entire state of Ohio must be embarrassed.
Just like Bush phoning in his personal war, Bubp had to call in his comments and have someone else do his heavy lifting for him. Even his taste in messengers is bad.
And, riddle me this … how does she know what that fallen Marine thought before he died? Does she speak to the dead? I mean, God talks to Bush and all … maybe House Reps can speak to the dead. Sheez.
November 18th, 2005 at 8:59 pm#54
Thanks for the clarification. Unlike republicans, I do like to have my facts straight.
November 18th, 2005 at 8:59 pmThe RW Republicans have their VietNam underway again. The boogey men back then were communists. Today its Muslims. It took 15 years to extricate ourselves from the SE quagmire. Today, we are a little smarter and more wary of the MIC and the corporate war profiteers. There is no compelling reason to shed blood in Iraq, just as there was no reason in VietNam. All the Republicans can do is question our patriotism because they have no compelling case to continue this immoral and unjustifiable war.
November 18th, 2005 at 8:59 pmWhen I first saw that image I thought they we bringing the Shiavo debate up again.
November 18th, 2005 at 9:01 pm#63. Henriet Cousin? Retired? when?
November 18th, 2005 at 9:02 pmHow long? from what yr to what yr?
MOS?
Duty Assignments?????
PROVE IT FIRST!BEFORE MAKING DEROGATORY STATEMENTS!
Gotta say, that there dog fight on the floor was pretty inspiring. Howard Fineman commented, on Olbermann’s Countdown tonight (Fri) that what actually happened when Ms Lovely Scmidt barfed out the coward statement, was that about a gazillion Dems ROSE from their seats and began to rumble. Sort of Capraesque, dont you think? I’m lovin it…..
November 18th, 2005 at 9:13 pmIs Congressman Jack Murtha Marine Corps in YOUR TOTAL OPINION TRULY A COWARD???
November 18th, 2005 at 9:15 pmOR JUST A THOUGHTFULL PERSON?
I KNOW MY ANSWER, IS A THOUGHTFULL PERSON!
GET OFF THE HOUSE FLOOR AND INTO THE THE SAND DITCHES OF IRAQ IF YOU THINK THIS CRIME IS THE “RIGHT THING”!
“I like guys who got five deferments and (have) never been there and send people to war, and then don’t like to hear suggestions about what needs to be done,’ Murtha said.” ~ The Honorable John Murtha
November 18th, 2005 at 9:18 pmWhat Schmidt did was wrong, I think she should have been made to opologize rather than just having to retract her statement and Lie that it was not meant as toward Jack Murtha. She should be censored.
Congressman Murtha showed real courage in his timein the marines and showed it when hemade his stand calling for withdrawal, knowing that he would be attacked by the republican spin machine. That’s real courage
November 18th, 2005 at 9:19 pmWhile I find Schmidt’s comments reprehensible, the comments on here attacking her because she’s a woman are just as disturbing, especially from “enlightened” liberals.
November 18th, 2005 at 9:20 pm#71
I believe #63 was sarcasm. Check it out. Murtha is dastardly for retring from the Marines. That is a joke. He served for 30 some odd years and was a Colonel. Nothing dastardly about that. He is a true American hero that deserves that respect. That is why it is a joke. People…….oh nevermind.
November 18th, 2005 at 9:23 pmOH! NOW ITS BECAUSE SHE IS A WOMAN??
November 18th, 2005 at 9:23 pmHOW RETARDED ARE YOU?
#77. HAHAHA.(Not Funny).
November 18th, 2005 at 9:26 pmI,m Sorry, I do not get the Humour.
#78
The Caps Lock key is 3/16 of an inch from your pinky finger, which should be resting on the “A”. Stretch that little puppy over there and press that sucker once. You might find more people respond to you that way.
Did you know all caps is considered yelling? So, going by your posts, you are a raving madman.
Come back to us.
November 18th, 2005 at 9:28 pmWill someone please put a burka on that screeching shrew of a women! My eyes!!!
Actually, lets see more of her. I think she is an excellent spokeswoman for the republican party. I think that so many moderates see the right-wing as just a bunch of harmless churchladies and good old boys and give them a pass. It is time moderates wake up and realize – these people are dangerous.
This screwball harpy is out to change America, and trust me – most of the people posting on this site will not be welcomed in her America.
November 18th, 2005 at 9:33 pmCrazy Bee-otch!
November 18th, 2005 at 9:39 pm[...] This particular clip of Representative Jean Schmidt (R-OH) insulting Democratic representative John Murtha on the floor of the house is incredible. The republicans are truly in panic mode and it shows. For those not in the know, Rep. Murtha just called for an immediate troop pullout from Iraq. Watching this I am reminded of the clips I have seen from Question Period in the House of Commons here in Canada. Filed under: End of Nomaddom by Todd Tyrtle | [...]
November 18th, 2005 at 9:39 pmyea well, after serving 21 + yrs, i tend to get raving mad, Spudge, Did you know one of my four daughters spent an entire year in n. Iraq? Shes home now, but, the point is, I AM RAVING MAD
November 18th, 2005 at 9:47 pmWell yea, after serving 21 + yrs, i tend to get raving mad, Spudge, Did you know one of my four daughters spent an entire year in n. Iraq? Shes home now, but, the point is, I AM RAVING MAD
November 18th, 2005 at 9:48 pmSpudge, I wrote this under the msg above, for some reason it did not appear:
November 18th, 2005 at 9:50 pmSorry spudge, i will try to calm down now.
I recently tried phoning the congresswoman from Ohio at her office (202-225-3164) to express my outrage but her voice mail was full. Go figure.
November 18th, 2005 at 9:51 pmMarines never cut and run.
That is the truth.
And Mr. Murtha will never cut and run.
He will stay the course with WE THE PEOPLE
and stand up for what is right no matter how
many CHICKENHAWKS call him names.
Thank you Mr. Murtha!!!!!!!!!!!
(That woman is a real freak!)
November 18th, 2005 at 9:54 pmAlso, love how she assumes the Marine who died supported the war. Maybe he thought it was a debacle.
To be clear, I don’t know what he thought. Unlike Republicans like Schmidt, Coulter, and Malkin, I can’t read the mind of soldiers from beyond the grave.
November 18th, 2005 at 10:00 pm“…I promise you, you will pay politically. I dare you to come to this “rock ribbed Republican†State of New Hampshire and utter such vile and disgusting comments. Or are you too terrified to face us face to face and outside the “House of Lies†that the Republican-controlled House of Representatives has become. Come on! Coward!
Hoo Rah!…
Take my word for it, she comes to New York and we’ll beat the shit out of the ugly bitch.
November 18th, 2005 at 10:04 pmHey Warbloggers, I hope you are safe. Please, watch your back as you fight the insurgency. We want you back alive so your wives and children can be proud of you.
Of fer gods sake, I can’t keep it up, you cheetoh slugging douchebags are cowards. Admit it. If you do, you will receive much respect.
November 18th, 2005 at 10:06 pm# 59 tomz. I agree but think she is sending a message to GW and Cheney of her qualifications. Thing is, it won’t work with this bunch, wrong party and every one knows drunks and druggies don’t play.Can’t. LOL. Bush could be impressed enough to give her a nod for a good job doing something else though. A recruiter in Iowa maybe.
November 18th, 2005 at 10:07 pmI have had it with these chickenhawks. I was outraged at watching the Republican Convention and seeing all those ignorant, disrepectful, morons waving their fingers with a purple bandaid to humiliate Kerry’s “earned” ribbons and war experience. Maybe we should put a YELLOW bandaid on our middle finger and salute that chickenhawk who pretends to commander in chief.
Now we have to put up with that war hero Schmidt telling us vets what we feel? She must have one hell of an honorable military record.
November 18th, 2005 at 10:08 pmMy letter to Schmidt. None of
her phone recorders would accept messages, must be they are all full.
Jean Schmidt
Occupier of the Congressional Seat of Ohio 2nd District
2423 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515
I refuse to address you as a Member of Congress, nor will I respect your position with the title of Honorable. You abrogated any respect I would have had for you when you uttered your remarks of November 18th, in which you challenged the courage of decorated Vietnam War veteran, Congressman John Murtha of Pennsylvania, saying “cowards cut and run.”
Congressman Murtha has expressed the feeling of a great number of people in this country with their dissatisfaction with the illegal Iraq war, and he did not call for an immediate withdrawal of troops, as you tried to portray. He did say “as soon as is practicableâ€. Congressman Murtha’s experience in war gives him an insight you will never have.
I understand you later were told to make an apology for your heinous remarks. I do not accept that apology. I am a Vietnam combat war veteran, and I found your remarks to be despicable.
Because I am an honorable man, and have great respect for women, I cannot express to you how I really feel about you, except to say, you Madam, you are an ass.
November 18th, 2005 at 10:12 pmThe Republicans of this nation are a danger to themselves and others.
They are not rational.
They are not sane, nor effective.
They are either liars or delusional.
Neither this nation nor the world can take anymore of them.
This Independent says bring them all down!
Read the Declaration of Independence!
It is time to act on our nation’s founding principles!
November 18th, 2005 at 10:18 pmI Agree Nam-Vet, I am sorry Plastic americans are spitting in your face.
November 18th, 2005 at 10:20 pmI know how you feel.
They Suck. in ref to #92,76, and all chickenhawks, GO TO HELL! do not collect $200.00, do not pass go, GO DIRECTLY TO HELL.
NEVER EVER SPIT IN A VETS FACE FOR STANDING UP TO WHAT IS RIGHT AND WHAT WENT WRONG!
THIS TIME
BEEEEEEEEEEYUTCH!
November 18th, 2005 at 10:24 pmGRAB THE FRIGGIN’ PITCHFORKS AND SHOW UP AT SMITTY’S
SH*T HOUSE DOOR AND TAKE AWAY HER TOILET PAPER -
PITCHFORKS BABY – GET THE PITCHFORKS
November 18th, 2005 at 10:26 pmQUOTE: “Mr. Speaker, my remarks were not directed to any member of the House and I did not intend to suggest they applied to any member, most especially the distinguished gentleman from Pennsylvania.”
Oh, but Jean, they WERE, they were…
QUOTE: “He also asked me to send Congressman Murtha a message…”
Of course, when she said the message was for Murtha, she never meant the remark that immediately followed was intended for Murhta. Or so she wants us to believe.
The GOP: they can’t even apologize without lying.
November 18th, 2005 at 10:41 pmShe is not a woman, She is a WITCH!
November 18th, 2005 at 10:46 pmOkay: this is Ohio State Legislature Representative (R-88th District) Danny R. Bubp. He is 51, this is his first term. His prior civic and political accomplishment is to have been elected as a county court judge.
He can be reached at:
district88@ohr.state.oh.us
(614) 644-6034
Representative Bubp, according to his official Ohio Legislature web page, was awarded the Joint Service Commendation Medal, Navy and Marine Corps Commendation Medal, and the Army Commendation Medal during his military service. His rank and branch are not given.
Alert readers with a service background will draw certain conclusions from which decorations Bubp was awarded.
I would urge any reader with the desire to do so to email or call Representative Bubp and ask why, if he is a Marine, he would call another Marine a coward who holds combat decorations and a Purple Heart.
November 18th, 2005 at 10:58 pmFirst Sue Burmeister, Now this Woman. What is up with (some of)you women ?
November 18th, 2005 at 11:03 pmJeanne Schmidt (CH-OH) Another chicken hawk in full flight….
November 18th, 2005 at 11:14 pmre #103:
First Sue Burmeister, Now this Woman. What is up with (some of)you women ?
Don’t even try playing that, buddy. This has nothing to do with them being women, and everything to do with them being good Republicans. Keep the focus where it belongs, thanks.
November 18th, 2005 at 11:26 pmGood Republicans?
November 18th, 2005 at 11:29 pmwhich side of the fence did you fall on?
From the independent:
“The Army Field Manual, which states: “The use of weapons which employ fire … is not violative of international law. They should not, however, be employed in such a way as to cause unnecessary suffering to individuals.”
The 1980 UN Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons prohibits use of incendiaries against civilians and demands that forces using them against military targets take all available steps to avoid civilian casualties.”
Looks like White Phosphorous is not only a breach of the army field manual, but is banned by the UN as a Non-Conventional weapon.
November 18th, 2005 at 11:30 pmWondered what happened to the stolen Munch painting “The Scream.” Seems to have surfaced in the U.S. House of Representatives. Obviously, there’s no longer a dress code in effect.
November 18th, 2005 at 11:30 pmI am proud to say that I went to Rep. Murtha’s official website and because I’m from the 12th district in the state of PA, where I’m from, I was more than proud to leave him my message of support and to continue to do the right thing and never let the chickenhawks get to him.
Thank God Murtha’s my Representative.
November 18th, 2005 at 11:31 pmI blame Women, It is afterall , What they wanted!
GENESIS CHAPTER 3
——————————————————————————–
November 18th, 2005 at 11:33 pm1 ¶ Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
6 ¶ And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes,
I was watching the debate till the bitter end and it occurred to me that the only speaker who really cares about the troops is Mr. Murtha.
November 18th, 2005 at 11:39 pmBill, You,re Right.
November 18th, 2005 at 11:43 pmAnd, Only one woman. Cindy Sheeham.
Ladies, Ladies, I,m only joking. There are ALOT of americans that want the war to End Immediately. But, are not sure, or know how to end it.
November 18th, 2005 at 11:47 pmonly those in power can really end it.
or maybe God can end it.
God Bless Rep. Burtha!
November 18th, 2005 at 11:56 pmThank you for your continuing service to this country.
re. #114. – yeah, i meant Murtha!
November 18th, 2005 at 11:58 pmmy humble apologies.
What A Piece of Schmidt
I also hope this haunts Mike DeWine and every other Ohio Repugnantcan with the stain they all deserve — corrupt, a-moral, despicable criminal hacks that they are.
November 19th, 2005 at 12:11 amWhat else would you expect from bullschmidt. She represents a ya-hoo county in Ohio that has a weekly raids on meth labs and is full of sexual predators. She tried the same inuendos against Hackett and he called her down on every one of her bullschmidt comments. She’s a neocon wannabe with a big mouth and somebody ought to sue the hell out of her.
And yes, there are still lingering questions on the last election in which she ran. The whole damned state is corrupt, from the Gov., the legislature, to Bullschmidt.
November 19th, 2005 at 12:11 amMighty Aphrodite,
You sound just like the Republican talking points. Do you ever have an original thought?
Redleg,
November 19th, 2005 at 12:12 amformer CPT, FA, US Army
BRAVO REDLEG, Welcome.
November 19th, 2005 at 12:22 amwe,ve been waiting on you guys.
Please help explain why our freedom bubbles are about to burst.
tyia
I find it interesting that a LEFTIST blog is mentioning and actually quoting these words. These comments that Schmidt so inelequently shared with the nation originated with a soldier.
How does it feel to know that many soldiers feel this way about the “cut & run caucus” aka DEMOCRATS?
November 19th, 2005 at 1:04 am[...] The desperation of Republicans in the Congress are best left without comment by me right now. I’ll let a Republican member of the House do that here. [...]
November 19th, 2005 at 1:25 amThis pathetic excuse for a Congresswoman is a disgrace to this country. I fear that the time may soon be upon us when we will be forced to take back this nation ourselves. The patriots that founded this country stood up to British bullets and lies, will we be up to the task if it falls to us? When will we send one million, two million souls to Washington and blockade the White House and the Senate and FORCE them to impeach these traitors, to give us our country back?
November 19th, 2005 at 1:32 amAnd we all thought Kathrine Harris was the ugliest women in Congress…as we say here in Georgia, ‘If my dog had a face like that, I’d shave it’s ass and teach it to walk backwards!’
November 19th, 2005 at 1:32 amWhere did she get the idea that “…the rest of AMERICA and the WORLD…want us to see this through!” She needs to do a REALITY CHECK, or get her information from somewhere other than White House talking points and/or rightwing talk radio…THE REST OF HUMANITY WANTS TO SEE AN END TO THIS ILLEGAL WAR, INCLUDING THE USE OF WMD’S ON CIVILIAN POPULATIONS AS WELL!!
And where was her fellow rep., the Colonel? And why would a real marine send a despicable message like that to another fellow marine…and through a woman who plays dress-up to look like a patriot (yet knows nothing about REAL war!), no less…typical Repugnant-can behavior. They love to wrap themselves in the flag and America, yet cut and run when needed to do the actual fighting for the rights and freedoms they claim for themselves.
November 19th, 2005 at 1:42 amThink of the most shrill voices for war, those advocated who never spent a second in uniform, never
November 19th, 2005 at 1:45 ambled on the field of battle, never held onto someone dying. This traitorous whore should be publicly flogged. Or, better yet, send her to Baghdad immediately, she can drive a Humvee and get shot at and THEN she can question John Murtha and not a second sooner.
That “message” from Schmidt was absolutely unacceptable. She did not even offer an appology. What was she thinking? Nevertheless like #76, I’m really disappointed by many of the comments on this blog calling her names.
November 19th, 2005 at 2:24 amShe was full of Schmidt once. She is full of Schmidt now.
November 19th, 2005 at 2:35 am[...] Representative Jean Schmidt, (R-OH), the most junior member of the House of Representatives, gave a speech today. She had this to say in response to Representative John Murtha (D-PA) speech yesterday (via Think Progress): A few minutes ago I received a call from Colonel Danny Bubp, Ohio Representative from the 88th district in the House of Representatives. He asked me to send Congress a message: Stay the course. He also asked me to send Congressman Murtha a message, that cowards cut and run, Marines never do. Danny and the rest of America and the world want the assurance from this body – that we will see this through. [...]
November 19th, 2005 at 2:38 am[...] Apparently, I missed the worst of this little political opera. Earlier, Ohio Republican Jean Schmidt came onto the House floor and read a letter supposedly from an American soldier, directly suggesting that Marine veteran Jack Murtha was a coward. If you can stomach it, here’s the video of this poor excuse for a U.S. Congresswoman delivering her disgusting libel. [...]
November 19th, 2005 at 2:45 amEva Braun (aka Schmidt) needs to have her mouth washed out with soap for daring to call Murtha a coward. She also is an OBVIOUS liar for saying she didn’t call Murtha a coward WHEN SHE DID!
November 19th, 2005 at 2:58 am….#120… SoCalPundit 1:04 am ..
How does it feel to be a coward, chickenhawk?
November 19th, 2005 at 3:00 amJudging by that photo, she needs her mouth washed out with a phallus…
November 19th, 2005 at 3:08 amthis punk ass sub human posing as a human female bad mouthing a true vetran. this kind of talk makes me want to go conan the barbarian upon the cult of the repukeslimes. not one of these republican cowards went into combat. wheres is the justice, wheres the outrage this will not stand KILL THE WITCHY BITCH not really but that how i feel
yo cia i will not kill her you know your read my dossier.
November 19th, 2005 at 3:14 amSend more troops to Iraq and keep them there forever.
The troops vote for people like Schmidt and
Bush… 92% of military voted Republican. I say
do what the President wants! Keep them there til there’s peace (i.e., forever)! As far as I’m concerned, I’m all for more more more troops being
sent to Iraq. Give the troops what they want! They WANT this war. They want to be in Iraq. They LOVE the death and destruction. It makes them feel alive (how ironic)! Let ‘em thin the ranks of Republican voters
by sending ALL our troops to Iraq and Chechnya!
That’s what I’m voting for!
Mike L.
November 19th, 2005 at 3:20 am“Cut and run” is so 2004… They actually think there’s still a war to fight! Hopefully this distasteful stunt will backfire; the end is nigh for the GOP. How much more of this can the American people take?
November 19th, 2005 at 3:50 amNothing new for the Rethuglicans – shoot the messenger.
The Iraq war is already lost and the US can either pull out now with some degree of dignity, or be routed at a later date in an ignominious defeat, just like Vietnam.
November 19th, 2005 at 3:55 amI will send her Democratic opponent next year a contribution. Don’t believe I’ll be the only one from out of state to do so.
November 19th, 2005 at 4:35 amThis lady looks like a long time meth user and street walker.
November 19th, 2005 at 4:46 am“Congress in strong, bipartisan fashion rejected the call to cut and run,†press secretary Scott McClellan, traveling with Bush in Asia, said in a statement.
Wow, what a suprise,never would have expected this response from the most pathetic political lacky representing the most reprehensible administration in my lifetime. It just goes to show: if you contrive it, they will vote for it. Congresswoman Schmidt? My guess is that McClellan refers to her as “Aunt Jean.”
November 19th, 2005 at 5:14 amYou know, I think that this woman is utter trash, but I find it quite disturbing that, instead of focusing in on her reprehensible comments, people are instead using the fact she is female to condemn her. It’s sad to see what seems to be a very liberal group disgracing itself by spouting sexist remarks. That’s Republican talk!
November 19th, 2005 at 5:16 amInterestingly, it’s a woman fromm the far right, the men have no balls!
November 19th, 2005 at 5:37 ammakes me proud to be an ohioan. honestly, what did we do to deserve this kind of representation?
November 19th, 2005 at 5:41 am#141… I agree.
And this is standard republican distraction. Keep sending different people in to carry the propaganda, make the statements loud to stir it up, grab the headlines and distract from the truth. And don’t always use the same people so that it becomes a collective voice with no one person is easily targeted. This time they sent a woman, next time it’ll be some other skag repub. But these people need to be targeted, as now the republican scum want to target Murtha’s brother with an ethics probe.
Besides, she’s not a woman, she’s a christian-right hag from Cincinnati who promotes the killing of doctors. Christo-fascists deserve no mercy.
November 19th, 2005 at 5:50 am#141… I agree.
But this is just republican nationalistic distraction straight from 1930’s Germany. Keep sending different people in with the propaganda, make the statements loud to stir it up, grab the headlines and let it distract from the truth. And don’t always use the same people so that it’ll resemble a collective voice with no one person being easily targeted. This time they sent a woman, next time it’ll be some other skag repub. But these people do need to be targeted, as now the republican scum target Murtha’s brother with an ethics probe in standard Repub bully-boy fashion.
Besides, she’s not a woman, she’s a christian-right hag from Cincinnati who promotes the killing of doctors. Christo-fascists deserve no mercy and bullies are cowards.
November 19th, 2005 at 5:59 amTell me something… do you suppose there are troops over there who are not thrilled to be participating in the “lottery�??
Do you suppose they are entitled to representation??? Do you think they could use a little support, someone to speak for them??? Someone to stand up and say, “democracy is best when initiated by those who want it�??
Not all participants in Iraq are professional soldiers, many are National Guardsman and Reservists… Why should they see their lives lost, limbs taken away, businesses flounder, marriages ruined… so an Iraqi can vote????
Cut and run???? How is that possible when the mission has been accomplished????
November 19th, 2005 at 7:25 amShe does ot speak for me when she says the rest of America.
November 19th, 2005 at 7:53 amI want them home before any body else dies!
There’s a lot of talk by the Republicans about a “cut and run” policy in Iraq, but it seems to me that no one can “cut and run” quite like the neocons that wanted this invasion/occupation. Collectively, President Bush, Cheney, Rice, Wolfowitz, Chalabi, et al. might have spent an average of less than a week in Iraq. Swooping down with evasive efficiency to avoid drawing enemy fire. Wearing bulletproof vests. Swooping into a heavily fortified camp to “inspire” the troops with the usual “stay the course” dogma. And then ‘POOF,’they’re gone. Back to their safe enclosure that has become the White House which is no longer the People’s House. The rank hypocrisy is shattering.
November 19th, 2005 at 8:01 amWhat’s wrong with the Dems? Why did they even vote on the sham resolution? Why didn’t Pelosi have the brains and the guts to stage a walkout? It would have been a triumph.
Instead, she and the Dems offer the tepid “American can do better.”
November 19th, 2005 at 8:07 amThat’s my congresswoman, loved every minute of it.
November 19th, 2005 at 8:11 amA real vagina gets her monologue.
November 19th, 2005 at 8:12 amWhat if Congress had opposed Vietnam sooner?
Hawkish decorated veteran House Democrat calls for withdrawal from Iraq. Uproar, hijinks right-wing silliness ensure.
November 19th, 2005 at 8:12 amwhy is schmidt’s military age daughter joining the fight in iraq if the congresswoman thinks the cause is worth the life of another american son or daughter? typical wingnut call for action–stay the course, don’t cut and run, but send others to fight and die.
November 19th, 2005 at 8:29 amin last post I meant why isn’t her daughter not joining the fight–sorry
November 19th, 2005 at 8:30 amPosturing and writhing by a party is a state of complete panic! They understand but only intuitively what’s happen to both Bush and the party that “brung” him. They’ve been reframed. The topic is no longer “whether” but “when” we pull out of Iraq. Military forces are designed to win military engagements; the only victory to be had in Iraq is a political one and we lost that battle from the date of our invasion. And we continue to lose it each additional day we stay. Out of Iraq now…before it bankrupts the U.S.
November 19th, 2005 at 8:38 amNoodling around in the web trying to figure out who the mysterious “Col Bubp” referenced by Rep. Schmidt in her scummy attack on a certified war hero, Rep Jack Murtha I found that Col Bubp is, or perhaps was, indeed a Marine Col, who is a representative for the 88th District of the Ohio House of Representatives (y’all know DIEBOLD OHIO). If he did pass on to her the unwarranted cut at Rep Murtha, it’s a point of interest that he has no Combat “Props” and his only awards are three give-away Commendation medals from agencies and activities he served with during whatever Active Duty time he served, piss poor harvest for a career as a Col. To reference this man as an authority on Heroism is ludicrous at best, and is a statement about Repug lies, manipulations of the truth, etc. Furthermore, it seems that Col Bubp used his military service and rank as a “prop” card in his run for his own seat, in violation of what I understand to be Military regulations against “politicking in uniform”:
http://www.geocities.com/danin04/
and if youLook and this little blurb from a Repugnican site on our Deer Jean and her shenanigans :
“Jean Schmidt–former Rep to Ohio’s General Assembly. Heavy hitter in Clermont County Politics. Known as Mean Jean for her past vicious attacks against opponents and her singleminded, almost dogmatic devotion to her own vision. Claims to be for lowering taxes and being pro-development, but caved and voted for the increased state taxes in Ohio that have driven businesses and population away. Claims to be for conservative honest values, but ran a very questionable campaign against Tom Niehaus in the primary for State Senator. Used alliance with former Speaker Householder to get extra campaign funds (Householder told those special interests who supported him that if they gave to Niehaus, they would lose access; they had to give to Schmidt), which is highly questionable. Uses deceptive campaign material which portrays her as having the endorsement of Rob Portman. Also used a conversation with State Rep. Danny Bubp as a claim she had his endorsement when he issued no such endorsement. Later bragged to party officials how she pulled one over on people for making it look like Bubp endorsed her. Now seeks to run so she can challenge Pelosi, Clinton, Boxer, and the other women of Washington. Blindly ambitious, and will do anything to win. Is known for attempting last minute charges which cannot be substantiated by the election. Sounded like AlGore when she lost to Niehaus after mandatory recount. Many disillusioned by her tactics, despite her attempts to soften image.”
verify at:
http://marksremarks.blogspot.com/2005_06_01_marksremarks_archive.html
Neat eh? The slime that used to be the Republican Party has fouled this nation and needs to be removed.
“Patriotism means being loyal to your country all the time and to its government when it deserves it.” Mark Twain
November 19th, 2005 at 8:50 amI just want the rest of the nation to know, not all Ohioans are so repugnant as this piece of human waste(Schmidt)…. The informed electorate of Ohio is tired of Repugs shaming us to the rest of the nation…I urge all people in Schmidt’s district to DEFEAT her in 2006 and rid the nation and our state of such disgusting displays in the future.
November 19th, 2005 at 9:06 amMark – thanks for the link to Danny Bubp’s website. Just sent him an email. We should all send that coward an email. Looks like the Democrats will have their work cut out for them in Ohio next year. Here’s hoping we have Democrat Iraq veterans to run against these Yellow Elephants.
November 19th, 2005 at 9:08 am#135. I agree with your comments. Having three brothers in WWII and serving in the US Army myself, I support sending more troops to Iraq as long as they are fresh young republicans from Ohio. Let this phony war run its course. Maybe in ten years we can all take a cruise to Iraq sponored by Halliburton. The “Fog of War” so entrenched in the Viet Nam era influenced by the policies of Sec of Defense McNamara is in full notice and a part of the American psyche today. Staying the course and honoring the dead who have died in action by killing more young Americans is akin to riding a dead horse. A majority of Americans have sorrowfully come to the conclusion that they have been duped into war and want those responsible to be held accountable. Those who advocate strong support for this war are in a “Cloud of Confusion”. This current congress has wrought more social,political and economic turmoil upon the American people than any previous government in our history! GO MICHIGAN!
November 19th, 2005 at 9:17 amShe certainly doesn’t seem cowardly in the fellatio department. I mean, look at that mouth — swallow a horse if she had to.
November 19th, 2005 at 9:19 amThese people in southern Ohio would vote for Benito Mussolini if his name had an (R) for republican after it on the voting ballot. They are pure red meat repubs voting for people like Schmidt. Politics over country.
November 19th, 2005 at 9:25 amOne Harvey Pekar is worth 1000 Jean Schmidts.
Wake up, Ohio!
November 19th, 2005 at 9:29 amI wish the clip was longer. The Washington Post mentioned her Repub collegues gathering ariound her, and her sitting down looking dazed. That’s what I want to see — the dazed looked of confusion and comeuppance.
November 19th, 2005 at 9:44 amI support this war and am conservative on many things, but–her remarks are disgusting. Reprehensible. Wrong. Period.
November 19th, 2005 at 9:47 am#95
Good letter! My hats off to you.
November 19th, 2005 at 9:48 am403 to 3. Wow. Is that all the anti-war Left could muster? THREE whole votes? How many man-hours of dishonest attack-dog politics is that per vote? How many hours of wasted time in the blogosphere? How many wasted words of MSM nonsense? How many wasted dollars of political contributions to spineless Democrats who can’t even stand in support of a guy they all say is a “brave American?”
If Jack Murtha is so brave, and if his cut-and-run proposal is such a great idea, congressional Dems should have been falling all over themselves to vote for this resolution. After all, it perfectly expressed the Democratic plan for Iraq. As it turned out, though, Danny Bubp was right. What a bunch of cowards and hypocrites!
November 19th, 2005 at 9:52 am“Mr. Speaker, my remarks were not directed to any member of the House and I did not intend to suggest they applied to any member, most especially the distinguished gentleman from Pennsylvania.”
Anyone who actually saw Rep. Schmidt deliver her original remarks knows that they were not directed at any individual House member. They were directed – and rightly so – at every member of the Democratic Cut-and-Run Caucus!
You go girl!
November 19th, 2005 at 9:55 amAdd Murtha to the long list of veterans that have been called cowards by the GOP. Ths party that likes to say they “support the troops” has called JFK, John Kerry, Max Cleland, Jimmy Carter and George Mcgovern all coward and traitors. This display is sickening.
November 19th, 2005 at 10:01 am#143
November 19th, 2005 at 10:03 amOhioans will need to take back their State government. You will need to change the voting machines. One way to take back you State is to have big “write-in” campaigns. You can’t write-in on a Diebold machine. This can be done. It takes a lot of ground troops to work the polls to get the votes.
Just watched the news conference on CSPAN. It was the Republican response to Rep Murtha. I love the “stay the course” Republicans.
But the constant comparisons to the Great Struggles of the Past, especially World War II just ring hollow. Do these people actually read history books, or did they learn about the war from watching “Combat” when they were kids?
The war was a struggle against advanced industrial miltary powers. It actually was a struggle for civilization itself. If the so-called “Global War on Terror” (or whatever they’re calling it now) is in the same league as that war, are they then prepared to make the same sacrifices to win it?
It’s a struggle for civilization, as Schmidt says in her comments…
Right?
OK Then…
-Are the Republicans ready to mobilize the entire country?
-Conscript every able-bodied person of military age?
-Increase taxes to World War II levels to support a war economy?
-Begin rationing of essential materials such as gasoline, rubber, nylon, steel, semiconductors, etc.?
…Well..??
…oh, I didn’t think so…
… because people might get pissed off then… and their little charade would end.
So good luck with the whole “stay the course (non-)plan”. I hope they vote down the Dems withdrawl bill… so then the responsibility for whatever happens next can be theirs completely.
November 19th, 2005 at 10:04 am“Three Democrats, Jose Serrano of New York, Robert Wexler of Florida and Cynthia McKinney of Georgia, voted for withdrawal. Six voted present: Reps. Jim McDermott of Washington; Jerrold Nadler, Maurice Hinchey and Major Owens of New York; Michael Capuano of Massachusetts and William Lacy Clay of Missouri.” (H/T: MSNBC)
Oh yeah, those six Dems who voted “present” sure showed the rest of us how to take a principled stand on the war. They are worse than cowards; they’re pathetic.
PS: How many Dems does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
Answer: No one knows. Dems prefer darkness and lies to the light of truth!
November 19th, 2005 at 10:05 am“Ohioans will need to take back their State government.”
You haven’t been paying attention. They just did – by defeating four “reform” proposals by out-of-state meddlers like you!
November 19th, 2005 at 10:07 amBlue State Red #168: as a rightwinger, I thought your take was nicely said.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but the lefties here would like you to say it again, only this time try saying through you mouth.
Dipshit.
November 19th, 2005 at 10:15 amBlue State Red
The prposal that came up for vote in the House was written by the Republicans and it was not the proposal written by Murtha. Of course, it was voted down. Get your facts straight before mouthing off nonsense.
You can’t “cut and run” after the “mission accomplished”. Bush publicaly stated that “mission accomplished”. If that is true, then we should have left Iraq a long time ago. If it is not true, then Bush LIED to the American people.
Blue State Red – How may wars did you fight in? How many solders died in your arms? How many bullets did you have to dodge? Did you risk your life to save others? Or are you just another selfish, self centered Republican?
November 19th, 2005 at 10:18 amA brief history of some of Jack Murhta’s recent war policy positions:
October 2002: Murtha voted for the Iraq war resolution – you know, the one that authorized President Bush to use all means necessary to remove SAddam Hussein because that has been US policy since 1998.
May 2004: A year after Saddam’s defeat, and five months after his capture, Murtha calls for MORE troops to be deployed to Iraq.
October 2004: Murtha was one of only two House members to vote for Charlie Rangel’s bill to reinstate the draft, despite the fact that Rangel himself voted againts his own bill.
November 2005: Not to be outdone by Rep. Rangel, Murtha voted against a resolution expressing his own “cut-and-run” proposal.
Murtha and Rangel are two peas in a pod: both decorated war veterans, both deserving of respect for their military service, and both cranky old guys with some really bad ideas. It’s sad to see that time has passed them by.
November 19th, 2005 at 10:21 am#173
What makes you think that I’m not from Ohio? And if I’m not from Ohio, then I have no influence on what is placed on the Ohio ballets. I think you need to stop taking those “stupid pills” with your breakfast. Your moronic thinking is beginning to show.
November 19th, 2005 at 10:21 am“Mission Accomplished” Now let’s get the hell out of there.
November 19th, 2005 at 10:23 amThe Left has been calling President Bush a liar – and worse – for five years now. But let a freshman GOP congresswoman repeat her constituent’s opinion on the House floor and all hell breaks loose. Whatsamatta, Lefties, got a boo-boo on your egos & don’t wanta play anymore?
November 19th, 2005 at 10:26 am[...] From Think Progress • • • [...]
November 19th, 2005 at 10:32 am[...] On the floor of the House, GOP Ohio Rep. Jean Schmidt, who last year almost lost a seat in one of Ohio’s most conservative districts to Iraq war veteran Paul Hackett, the Democrat who famously called George Bush a chickenhawk, lectured Murtha. [...]
November 19th, 2005 at 10:32 amOh yeah, those six Dems who voted “present†sure showed the rest of us how to take a principled stand on the war. They are worse than cowards; they’re pathetic.
PS: How many Dems does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
Answer: No one knows. Dems prefer darkness and lies to the light of truth!
Comment by Blue State Red
I’ve been saying that congressional democrats are treasonous liars, and unfit to hold office for years. I believe it, and have reams of evidence for it on my hard drive.
I hardly need to address the degree of stupidity ( or raw hatred of one’s country) necessary to call for a timed pullout (6 months from now) from Iraq, that is John Murtha’s plan. I don’t have to talk about it here because I save my pearls for those who like me care about my country and the men we send to hell around the world to protect it. I save my breath for Americans, real Americans, people with an innate understanding of the price of freedom and the cost of allowing sluggards, slackers and traitors (like most of those that post here)to have a disproportionate voice in America.
We can have Democrats in leadership positions, or we can have the United States of America … the one which has become the greatest civilization, and force for good, in all of history. We cannot have both.
November 19th, 2005 at 10:32 amCheck out this whacky whack-a-doo from Ohio
Radical Right-Wing Agenda
November 19th, 2005 at 10:33 amSchmidt causes ruckus in House debate on Iraq
By Malia Rulon
Enquirer Washington Bureau
WASHINGTON – U.S. Rep. Jean Schmidt drew boos and angry shouting from Democrats as she brought the U.S. House to a standstill Friday by…
ohio is a fine state with many fine people but this senator is out of line and a disgrace to her office and state.
November 19th, 2005 at 10:36 amOkay, try pay attention now:
First, President Bush never “publicaly stated that ‘mission accomplished.’ [sic]” Those words did, however, appear on a Naval banner when the President welcomed the USS Abraham Lincoln home from a tour of duty in Iraq. The Lincoln and its crew had posted a notable record of successful missions with very few, if any, casualties. So their mission was, indeed, accomplished. Got a problem with that?
Second, I never stated that it was Murtha’s resolution. I said it was a resolution expressing his own ‘cut-and-run’ proposal.” Which it was.
That makes you 0 for 2, pal. Just like your batting average in the last two election cycles.
November 19th, 2005 at 10:37 amOhioans – Do your duty to your country. Recall Jean Schmidt!
November 19th, 2005 at 10:39 am“On the floor of the House, GOP Ohio Rep. Jean Schmidt, who last year almost lost a seat in one of Ohio’s most conservative districts to Iraq war veteran Paul Hackett, the Democrat who famously called George Bush a chickenhawk, lectured Murtha.”
Yeah, that “almost” kinda jumps out at you, doesn’t it. Just like Al Gore and John Kerry “almost” beat George Bush – but then didn’t. And just like the Dems “almost” gained seats in the House & Senate – but then didn’t. And just like Tom Daschle “almost” beat John Thune – but then didn’t . . .
I could go on. I could even mention how Max Cleland “almost” beat Saxby Chamblis – but then didn’t. Of course, you probably already knew that. Or should I say “almost.”
Paul Hackett, meanwhile, aspires to run for US Senate against Mike DeWine next November. Guess he’s having a hard time finding a real job. I wonder if he’ll show his true cojones and take a position on the Murtha cut-and-run plan.
November 19th, 2005 at 10:47 amCongressman Murtha is a true hero and patriot. He risked his life fighting in 2 wars. He didn’t cut and run like Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Limbaugh, just to name a few cowards.
November 19th, 2005 at 10:48 amSchmidt is despicable rat weasel scum.
Murtha is an American hero.
Keep taking care of our troops.
Develop a sane plan and keep our interests safe.
God bless ya Congressman.
November 19th, 2005 at 10:48 amSOMEONE POST HER GODDAMNED CONTACT INFO SO HER AND I CAN FIGURE OUT WHO’S MORE OF A COWARD.
November 19th, 2005 at 10:52 amBlue State Red – did you serve in Iraq? Did you risk your life to save others? Have you seen solders die? Did you dodge bullets? If not, then you join the rest of the cut and run cowards that want others to do their fighting for them.
With all the trashing of anyone that speaks up against this administration and it’s illegal war and it’s financial raping of American, there is no freedom in American. Freedom respects others and allows other to state their opinions and not be labeled traitors. Traitors are people that out CIA agents which then threatens the security of the US and the rest of the world – Benedict Arnold and Scooter Libby come to mind.
November 19th, 2005 at 10:52 amHere’s the real agenda:
Win the war
Confirm the judges
Cut the taxes
Control the spending
Control the border
Any politician – Democrat or Republican – who promises to stick to this agenda will win, hands down, next year.
November 19th, 2005 at 10:53 amYes Blue State Red the President said miltary operations were…..what? OVER? DONE? ACCOMPLISHED? what was that? REMIND US
when he stood in drag under the Mission Accomplished Banner? In miltary drag, GWBush, the cowardly liar.
God Bless and Save the USA! Get theses liars way fromour soldiers’ lives
November 19th, 2005 at 10:56 amON YOUR KNEES, YOU GODDAMNED GOP WHORE-OF-THE-RIGHT.
November 19th, 2005 at 10:57 amI agree, someone needs to post her contact information so she can hear from real Americans . She is despicable and loathesome, and it amazes me that scum like that can achieve high places in our government. She and the rest of her kind need to be brought down.[include that Bush butt kissing Elizabeth Dole in that bring down, too}
November 19th, 2005 at 10:59 am#194 – I would love to piss on bush too. lol
Just heard the speach Bush gave in Korea. He states that we can’t leave until we accomplish our mission. In May of 2003, he claimed “mission accomplished”. Now he claims we still need to accomplish our mission. Which one is it? This is confusing. Did we or did we not accomplish our mission? There’s a LIE here somewhere. Bush isn’t being straight with the public. Nothing more than yackety yak. Only fools believe this president.
November 19th, 2005 at 11:03 amHERE’S AN INTERESTING LINK ABOUT THIS TYPICAL GODDAMNED GOP PIG WHORE NEOCON…. OH, YES, SHE PROVES HERSELF A RIGHT-WING 2-FACED LIAR..ANYTHING TO WHORE-UP VOTES:
http://www.hamiltoncountydems.org/schmidtgastaxrelease.pdf#search=‘Rep.%20Jean%20Schmidt’
November 19th, 2005 at 11:05 am“[D]id you serve in Iraq? Did you risk your life to save others? Have you seen solders die? Did you dodge bullets?”
I love how you anti-war lefties always fall back to the “did you serve?” ploy. You should know by now how dumb that is. First, you know nothing about my militray record – or my age, sex, religion or medical condition, for that matter – because, as an American, I’m not required to pass your arbitrary test to get permission to express my opinions. Second, if memory serves, the lottery and the transition began to an all-volunteer military began around 1972, and most Americans of military age since then have not served in the military. Third, we are all deeply indebted to those who have served and who do risk their lives in the global war on terror. Fourth, that is why, in this time of war – however much you may disagree with its beginnings – the only way to support the troops is to support their mission and their commander in chief.
Here’s a word of advice: don’t try to pretend that only certain elite opinions count. I’d be happy to have matters of war and peace decided only by elite military personnel, but that’s not the way the Founding Fathers set things up. Be whatever you want to be, but be an American first.
November 19th, 2005 at 11:09 amPlease, Blue State Red. No more misdirection. Answer the questions posed in message #175. They are easy to understand and, therefore, easy to answer.
And no, time has not passed by those “cranky old guys,” as you describe them in your message #176. Those cranky old guys have the wisdom and the experience to come to different conclusions than they once had. Most of us cranky old guys who are Vietnam-era veterans are that way. We are capable of complex thought, of changing our minds, of thinking for ourselves, not like automatons directed by thinking points issued from K Street and the White House.
Now then — Answer the questions posed in message #173, or buzz off. Or would your answers reveal you as a thirty-something chickenhawk with no military experience having absolutely no standing to criticize?
Perhaps you might learn something of value were you to visit http://www.eurolegal.org/greendogdem/greendogdem.htm AFTER you answer those simple questions.
November 19th, 2005 at 11:11 amWhen Bush states that he had “bad intelligence”, he’s simply saying (in his stilted way) that he isn’t very intelligent. It’s time to oust him and his entire cabal of greedy malevolant fools. The economic consequences of their pigheaded foolishness will transform the US into a failed 3rd world state, with a few who are wealthy beyond all reason, and the rest of us in poverty. Then I guess they will impose permanent martial law, so they won’t have to go to the trouble to rig any more elections…
November 19th, 2005 at 11:15 am“Yes Blue State Red the President said miltary operations were…..what? OVER? DONE? ACCOMPLISHED? what was that? REMIND US”
Actually, that was the speech on the USS Abraham Lincoln in which the President announced the end of “major combat operations.” Not “Mission Accomplished.” Not “No More Bad Guys” Not “Bring the Troops Home.” And certainly not “Victory in the Global War on Terror.” You lefties get way too excited about two words on a banner hung from the brindge of a returning aircraft carrier. What would you prefer, “I did not have sex with that womean”?
November 19th, 2005 at 11:15 amBlue state Red,
I agree we should win this thing and get out, but I am not sure what winning would be. OK, Um, Iraq being able to defend itself. However, what’s next? Back to peactime, I don’t think so. This is the beginning of a war that will just change names and locations. The bigger picture is “Peak Oil”.
November 19th, 2005 at 11:16 amPoeple know better. This is the beginning of a much larger issue, a long string of oil wars, and maybe the “pull out” group wants to nip it in the bud now.
November 19th, 2005 at 11:19 amWHEN YOU START AN UNPROVOKED FIGHT, YOU USUALLY GET YOUR ASS KICKED!
November 19th, 2005 at 11:21 amask any redneck!
republicans are TRUE rednecks,lol.
Iran is next.
November 19th, 2005 at 11:23 amThis administration and all of its backers have been running from and hiding the truth for many years now . . . I guess that makes them cowards! It takes courage for someone to admit that they are doing the wrong thing, and I certainly don’t see much of this in Congress nowadays
November 19th, 2005 at 11:27 amSyria,Iran,n.korea,China? venesuala, cuba?, the list gets longer and longer.
November 19th, 2005 at 11:27 amfreedom bubble getting to big, might pop soon!
November 19th, 2005 at 11:27 amBlue State Red,
I usually get no response from the Right on these issues (Peak oil). I think it’s just too unmanagelble for the Right folks to think about what I said. And most are not ready to have the Peak Oil conversation. If Politicians and big business talk about it, the markets will go nuts. Continue the denial.
November 19th, 2005 at 11:34 amI seldom get involved in political discussions but after noting the disgusting display by a Congresswoman on the House floor attacking the integrity of Congressman Murtha, a decorated Marine veteran, I feel compelled to voice my humble opinion. What this courageous ex-Marine Congressman did by introducing a resolution to bring our troops home is something that should have been done long ago. Hopefully, by his act of courage the Democratic side of the Isle will be prodded to rise in mass and challenge the hypocritical policies of the right that are destroying our democracy. In my view, Congressman Murtha is an individual who truly cares about the democratic values we all cherish. Its my profound belief that by his recent display of leadership. he possesses the necessary bacground, know-how, and political qualifications to challenge our current White House Occupant. Serious consideration should be given to start a nation wide movement to seat this man in the White House Oval Office in 2008.
November 19th, 2005 at 11:36 am“I agree we should win this thing and get out, but I am not sure what winning would be.”
You know, that is the first sane comment I have seen on this site for a long time. For once, someone is thinking about the future instead of fever swamp conspiracy theories about the past.
Look, all I know is that we have done this before, and we can do it again. We occupied Germany and rebuilt Europe, depite some pretty grim post-war conditions there. We occupied and rebuilt Japan. In both cases, we turned defeated enemies into democratic allies with market economies. We have had disagreements with those allies since then, but never anyhting close to a state of war.
There is no reason why the same cannot be true in Iraq. Was Saddam any more or less evil than Hitler? Is radical Islam any nore fanatical than the “kamikaze” warriors of Japan? Winning, I think, would be completing the process of helping the Iraqis govern themselves as a secure and democratic society. It probably means (1) the defeat of the terrorists’ ability to affect Iraqi politics, and (2) the Iraqis having sufficient control of their own country that Muslim terrorists won’t be able to kill other Muslims on a regular basis.
This would probably require some level of continuing terrorist violence, and it may involve some continuing level of US military presence. But it probably also means that we will have to stay until the duly elected governemnt of Iraq (with whom over 40 nations have quietly established diplomatic ties) asks us to leave.
November 19th, 2005 at 11:36 amWhat it all comes down to is this…As the country turned toward a right wing point of view, the country began its dark descent into the insanity of unwarranted war, economic collapse and ethical/moral disintigration all masked in “patriotic, family values” rhetoric designed to empower an administation that lives and breathes hypocracy and cruel self aggrandizment at the expense of “we the people” so brilliantly canonized by the founders of this country. Ignorant traitors all, the Republican “Majority” has insured the total demise of what was once a “Beacon of Light and Hope” to the world. May God damn you to the dust bin of history and assign you to the throne of glory in the bowels of Hell. Where Bush is God, all is lost.
November 19th, 2005 at 11:37 amRichard Wagner
Congresses Deception with Phony Bill
You people do realized what just happened here, right? The GOP leadership (Duncan Hunter and others) got together and devised a scheme to deceive the American pu…
November 19th, 2005 at 11:42 amWhat a completely STUPID, DUMB, INSANE, BITCH!!!!!!
November 19th, 2005 at 11:46 amHow dare she open her idiotic mouth and spout off shit like that?? Who does she think she is? Damn I can’t believe we have fools like her representing us!!! Throw her out of office QUICKLY!!
This one could be a different animal from the past wars. It’s about religion and oil this time. The past wars mentioned, we fought folks who believed in Christianity, and oil was not a factor. We really angered the entire Muslum world when we carved out Isreal. It is interpreted in the old testament that Palastine was there first.
November 19th, 2005 at 11:46 amI am not getting into professing religion, so lets not get off on that tangent. As long as we keep pissing off the Muslum world, they will be bent of terrorizing us. Winning in Iraq will perpetuate the overall issue.
the problem is Rich people have forgotten poor people, thats the msg in the bible.
November 19th, 2005 at 11:48 amfreedom to forget,neglect,notcare about, and in some cases “hate the poor” is in itseld”damnation”.
I don,t Damn the rich, but, I certainly do NOT damn the poor.
to build up this free capitalization around us is not helping matters, its hurting US AND others.
“This is the beginning of a war that will just change names and locations. The bigger picture is “Peak Oilâ€.”
Maybe I spoke too soon. Look, there is only one problem with the Peak Oil theory – it is a static, rather than dynamic, theory of technology and economics. Its premise is that the world’s oil based economies will begin to collapse during the next 20 years or so, thus creating increased incentives for strong nations, like the US and China, to secure new energy sources via warfare.
Western economies always have faced such technological challenges. Without exception, successful economies are those whose dynamics permit the greatest amount of technological innovation and change. Even as we speak (er, type?) new fuel technologies are coming online in every sector of the US economy. Eventually market forces will identify the most cost effective energy alternatives, and we will rely less and less on old technologies like oil.
In the meantime, though, wouldn’t it make sense to drill in ANWR and the continental shelf?
November 19th, 2005 at 11:52 amThe civilian hierarchy in America are the cowards! The executive branch and those neocons are the cowards! The troops themselves are heroes and always will be! Bringing them home is the only choice of support. Staying the course is just blind faith in the cowards! Do not let history repeat itself! We stayed the course in vietnam until 56k+ were dead! Want to see more heroes DEAD? In 2008 America must change regimes too! Must burn all electronic voting machines before then. I do not give a sh%t if it takes a month or 2 to count the votes, just that they are counted correctly and fairly and the paper trail can be verified! And think outside the box people! The DNC and GOP must go! We are not chained to these parties! I am keeping an eye on the USA Patriot party that is emerging, You should too! Oh and STOP living the lie of 9/11 as that is what started this mess we are in! The truth of that day is buried and shovels are being used to dig it up! Keep digging! The truth shall set us free!
November 19th, 2005 at 11:55 amLook, Here is the Sign. in plain black and white, if you cannot understand this then we are doomed!
15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
November 19th, 2005 at 11:57 am16 ¶ And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Blue State Red- Be careful, we may vote you into office if you keep up this lucid-backbone-sanity thing you’ve got going…..although it would be fun to watch the lefty meltdown when you were elected…..
November 19th, 2005 at 11:58 amThis type of tecnological problem at this magnatude has never been dealt with. The transition to alternative energy for 5-9 billion people will take decades. The current alternative energy is not even making a dent. If it was, it would be snuffed out.
ANWR has an estimated 300 million barrels of oil. We use 9 million a day. Assuming the damand will not increase, which would be conservative, that supply will last 33.3 days. Assuming technology will just take care of it, is just a form of denial in my opinion. I gues we will see.
November 19th, 2005 at 11:58 am“It’s about religion and oil this time. The past wars mentioned, we fought folks who believed in Christianity, and oil was not a factor.”
You lost me there. We most certainly did fight non-Christians in World War II. We called them the Japanese. And oil was very much part of the issue. The Japs attacked us in part because we embargoed certain kinds of war materiel, including oil.
BTW, if you don’t want to bring religion into the discussion, I suggest you stop mentioning it. The Old Testament does not state that Palestine existed before Israel, and the creation of modern Israel is a fact of history, whether you like it or not. How about we just focus on defeating the people who are trying to kill us, okay?
November 19th, 2005 at 11:59 amBlue State Red,
You sound like the voice of the older generation. From the 50’s where the mentality is we can solve all problems, control everything. The military in the 50’s though it could control hurricanes, and tried to do it.
November 19th, 2005 at 12:00 pm221, agreed.
November 19th, 2005 at 12:01 pmStep one: Dump the Republicans Step two: Rebuild our education system Step three: Create an atmosphere of tolerance in our society Step four: understand that toture and war are no longer viable options for the USA being in this world as leaders or major political players. Step five: Reform and reclaim the MSM. Step six: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you Step seven: Step one
Richard Wagner
November 19th, 2005 at 12:03 pmScottsdale Az
[We know, cowards have girls do their talking for them.
Comment by SpudgeBoy — November 18, 2005 @ 6:51 pm ]
Yeah, Shrub does it all the time. He sends his Stepford Wife out to stick up for him when he gets a sound thrashing in the real world.
November 19th, 2005 at 12:05 pmFocusing on people who are trying to kill us will be a constant focus, long after Iraq, due to arragance, and poor policy.
November 19th, 2005 at 12:05 pmHow do whe know the rest of the world is wanting Demacracy as much as we do? Is that an arrogant assumption, or a proven fact?
November 19th, 2005 at 12:08 pm“This type of tecnological problem at this magnatude has never been dealt with.”
Okay, then explain to me how we went from horse drawn buggies to the internal combustion engine? How did we go from training soldiers with mock wooden rifles in 1940 to dropping two atomic bombs in 1945? How did we manage to put a man on the moon in less than 10 years?
There have been all kinds of rapid shifts in virtually every technology known to man. Nothing ever remains the same, and any theory based on stasis, rather than dynamism, is doomed to fail and be forgotten.
November 19th, 2005 at 12:08 pmThis Bimbette insults a decorated American war veteran who risked his life while the present Commander in Chief spent his Vietnam-era time either willing vodka in bars or defending the friendly skies of Alabama from a sneak Vietnamese attack and while the vice-president had other prioroites as if those who served, werfe wounded and those who died did not.
Neither Amerivcans in general nor Ohioans in particular are well served by Ms. Schmidt. Who voted for her?
November 19th, 2005 at 12:08 pm[In the meantime, though, wouldn’t it make sense to drill in ANWR and the continental shelf?]
No, it doesn’t. Why waste time and energy in squeezing out the last few drops of oil in the world? Hell, that oil would likely be sold on the foreign markets anyways. We would have to buy it back at inflated prices.
The oil barrons in this nation aren’t here to do any of us a solid favor by making oil cheap and affordable. They’re here to make a record profit and thumb their noses at the plight of the average citizen.
We need to start developing, in earnest, a replenishable and reasonable alternative to fossil fuels that can motivate a car, truck, van, etc before the we get caught with out pants down.
November 19th, 2005 at 12:09 pm[#How do whe know the rest of the world is wanting Demacracy as much as we do? Is that an arrogant assumption, or a proven fact?
Comment by For Truth — November 19, 2005 @ 12:08 pm]
They don’t. Even in Iraq they have created a Constitution based on religious and not secular laws. Iraq was one of the few relatively stable, secular Middle East regimes. Now, people will get stoned to death for selling the ‘wrong’ kinds of books, women will be killed because they won’t wear veils by their own fundie neocons in Iraq. Hell, even Israel, the so-called bastion of ‘democracy’ in the Middle East, is about as democratic as Saudi Arabia when it comes to Palestinians.
Democracy does not flow from the barrell of a gun. It flows from the will of the people.
November 19th, 2005 at 12:13 pm[#How do whe know the rest of the world is wanting Demacracy as much as we do? Is that an arrogant assumption, or a proven fact?
Comment by For Truth — November 19, 2005 @ 12:08 pm]
It is an arrogant assumption. It is like politicians and military leaders during the Cold War thinking that deep inside every Commie, there ws an American dying to get out.
With dying being the operative word, mind you…
November 19th, 2005 at 12:15 pmGreat job, Ohio! You could have Hackett as your representative and you chose this piece of shit.
November 19th, 2005 at 12:15 pmYou,re wrong Mike.
November 19th, 2005 at 12:16 pmDemocracy does flow from the barrell of a gun.
ever hear the phrase”Live free OR DIE?”
#85 & 87
It’s all good. I understand why you would be raving mad. I am glad to here you daughter made it home safley. I have a 17 year old daughter and I fear for what the future holds ofr her. I doubt she would ever join the military, as she is the type who gets freaked out over fireworks. But, with the fact that recruitment is down (not because of San Francisco) so low, the only way to sustain this illegal war is to start the draft.
November 19th, 2005 at 12:19 pm#228,
It was all done with “Powered by Oil”. Without Oil, none of it could be done.
November 19th, 2005 at 12:21 pmthe only way to sustain this illegal war is to start the draft.
November 19th, 2005 at 12:22 pmI wonder how far that draft might go. would females be draftable?
Are inmates draftable, There sure are alot of them these days.
November 19th, 2005 at 12:26 pmanyone know how many inmates are in america?
I wonder what the percentage of inmates are republicans vs democrats?
November 19th, 2005 at 12:27 pm#228,
Your stuck in the industrial revolution, which happened due to oil. The industrial revolution is waning now. What type of major advancements have been made in a short period of time since the 60’s, (the computer was already invented then). At the rate advances were going during the height of the industrial revolution, we should be far more advanced, than we are now. Nothing major in the last 40 years, it’s stagnant.
November 19th, 2005 at 12:30 pmI mean, Can you FORCE Inmates to fight for your freedoms?(they lost theirs, why would they care about yours or mine?).
November 19th, 2005 at 12:30 pmthey might even turn against us.
what do you think?
#238,
The US has the second largest inmate population in the World, not including the overseas prisons. Only one other developed country has the death penalty, and we are supposedly the the most developed country.
November 19th, 2005 at 12:32 pmThat is scary when you take the entire population in consideration.
November 19th, 2005 at 12:35 pmamerican population is only like 300 million, isnt it?
i wonder what Chinas Inmate population is. they do have a 1.3 Billion population, and India , 1 billion. what are their inmate population like
Watching the confrontation in the house yesterday helped me realize in greater detail, how deeply divided our country is and how fundamentally unhealthy our republican fellow citizens are. Mentally and morally bankrupt, and out of touch with reality. Loud mouthed, vindictive, dishonest, self centered power mongers hell bent on bringing this country to its will at all costs. I was blaming it all on Bush, but his lackies are as much to blame as him. Change the world in 2006…vote the bastards out. Shut them up and lock them up. Impeach in 2007! All of them.
Richard Wagner
November 19th, 2005 at 12:40 pmScottsdale
The Right wingers, usually don’t respond to me, and when they do, like Blue State Red, they eventually stop commenting. I think I have made the point.
November 19th, 2005 at 12:40 pmBush to push religious freedom in China
November 19th, 2005 at 12:41 pmimagine 1.3 billion people freed. to travel. to seek riches,fame,happiness,
i can see it allready, nearly 1.3 billion asian americans living in the U.S.A.
P.S. alot of them do allready.
#244,
I bet it won’t be long until our congress lowers themselves to fighting, like we have seen with other countries. We always were better than that, but it will be a sign of the backward slide we are in.
November 19th, 2005 at 12:42 pmYesterday I stood at Arlington National Cemetery attending the funeral of a young marine in my district. He believed in what we were doing is the right thing and had the courage to lay his life on the line to do it.
She gets me when she says “He believed”
November 19th, 2005 at 12:47 pmI wonder if She remembered Pat Tillman.
Or, did she FORGET HIM Allready?
November 19th, 2005 at 12:49 pmsome should send her and ask her if she forgot Him allready.
Jean, as Jane Hamsher of Firedoglake said, is full of “schmidt.”
No marine called that bitch/witch. The words she attributed to the marine is the tired, hackneyed Republican talking points she kept repeating ad nauseum during her campaign.
November 19th, 2005 at 12:49 pm#248,
Is this woman psychic, or did she interview him. How does she know what he truly believed.
November 19th, 2005 at 12:50 pmOops, forgot to post, the tired meme was “stay the course, stay the course, stay the course, stay the course, stay the course, stay the course, stay the course, stay the course, stay the course, stay the course.”
November 19th, 2005 at 12:50 pm#241 That works pretty well in old Hollywood movies, but I’m not sure how practical it would be in real life.
November 19th, 2005 at 12:53 pm“Blue State Red”, the problem with your comparison of Iraq to post-WWII Germany and Japan is that, in both countries, the fighting ended with the surrender of both governments in formal peace treaties. There has been no formal surrender in Iraq. Dubya and his cronies never declared war ON Iraq–the focus of the war was a PERSONAL war against Saddam. (All of the Saddam-era government were killed, captured or fled the country, so there was no legal authority to sign a peace treaty; the post-Saddam government that formed could not legally sign a peace treaty since war was not waged against it.) Following Hitler’s suicide, the remnants of his military leadership designated themselves to be the official German government and agreed to the peace treaty imposed on the country, and after the US dropped two atomic bombs on Japan, that led to the Japanese government’s surrender (MacArthur was the driving force that allowed Hirohito to remain on the throne, largely to avoid a potential rebellion by the Japanese people).
November 19th, 2005 at 12:55 pmAlso, the US realized that without assisting Germany in repairing its economy could easily lead to serious political problems in the very near term (one should note that Hitler’s rise to power in Germany came about largely because of the severely depressed German economy brought about by the harsh post-Versailles Treaty reparation terms combined with the worldwide Depression), and part of the political aspect was the rapid sweep of Communism in the Soviet-liberated Eastern Europe. The Japanese economy also played a significant part in that country’s belligerence in East Asia (the Japanese home islands are severely lacking in terms of mineral wealth, including oil).
Now, you’re also forgetting that under Saddam, Iraq was surprisingly free of terrorists (aside from anti-Saddam rebel groups, many of which received financial support from the US). The United States, because of DUBYA’S war, is responsible for any and all terrorist activities in Iraq at this time. Dubya is solely responsible for the conditions that led to al-Qaeda members, supporters and sympathizers taking advantage of the situation in Iraq. As for your absurd comment about “Iraqis having sufficient control of their own country that Muslim terrorists won’t be able to kill other Muslims on a regular basis”, well, that simply shows your complete and total lack of knowledge of that country’s history. The Kurds don’t consider themselves “Iraqis”–that’s why they’ve been trying to gain autonomy for the Northern Kurdish provinces. The Sunnis and Shi’ites have been fighting each other for more than 1000 years (that was a large component to the Iran-Iraq Gulf War of the 1980s and why so many Sunni Arab states–like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Egypt–sent financial aid to Saddam). It was Shi’ites who were responsible for a 1979 attack on holy places in Mecca, incited by Khomeini’s Islamic Revolution in Iran and trying to launch a worldwide Islamic rebellion against the US and Israel (the American Embassy in Pakistan was attacked when early reports out of Saudi Arabia suggested that the CIA had infiltrated a group of hajj pilgrims). The Sunni and Shi’a sects have maintained a fairly uneasy truce (much like Catholics and Protestants) with only a few serious all-out sectarian wars.
If you truly believe that Iraq can ever have a “secure and democratic society”, you’re sadly mistaken. Iraq exists solely as an artificial creation of World War I when several provinces of the old Ottoman Empire were brought under a single authority in Baghdad by the British. While the provinces had co-existed under Ottoman control, that was because all were under the same level of authority. After the British established their mandate over the area, they literally imported a new leader, Faisal, for the country, even arranging to stage a plebiscite to “legitimize” the new king. Faisal had served in the Ottoman parliament as a representative of Jeddah–in modern Saudi Arabia–and was even made King of Syria for about two months, before he was expelled and moved to Britain. But his entire monarchy was formulated solely to help the British stem a tide of unrest, initiated by a fatwa issued by the grand mujtahid of Karbala which declared that it was wrong for Muslims to be governed by non-Muslims. Interestingly, the insurgency that began against the British was comprised of Shi’ites and Sunnis, united against a common enemy. Only after the British used the Royal Air Force to bomb the country were they able to regain control, and set into motion the events that led to Faisal’s kingship. (Of course, it should be noted that a very large part of Britain’s interest involved oil. Kind of brings up a parallel, doesn’t it?)
I find it interesting that you mention that we will probably stay “until the duly elected government of Iraq asks us to leave”. Do you honestly think that the current administration will give the Iraqi government any say in the matter?
These republicans sure have SHORT memories, don,t you think?
November 19th, 2005 at 12:55 pm#254,
Thank you,
You have eliquently put what I was trying to say that this war was a different animal. WWII had an actual front line, rules of war were followed, there were formalities, etc.
November 19th, 2005 at 12:58 pmWWII followed our mentality and our line of thinking. There will never be another “Gentlemen’s War”. And all these Repubs live in that time frame of greatness, and can’t deal with change.
November 19th, 2005 at 1:00 pmdust is the next big thing …do we have a vaccine for it?
If you havent fought in Iraq or afganistan you dont have a stake in the game. Cowards make laws that kill innocent people, for oil. not for democracy.
so shut up and sit down.
if you dont birth babies you dont have a say in a womans reproductive ways.
so shut up and sit down.
jesus isnt comming back until all you republiczealots
SHUT it up AND SIT DOWN.
or in the words of napoleon dynamite:
IDIOTS!
November 19th, 2005 at 1:00 pmSo, post #254, are you saying that the Iraqis and middle east have been fighting LONG BEFORE Christopher Columbus even Discovered America?
November 19th, 2005 at 1:01 pmallright, who ate the capt. crunch?lol
November 19th, 2005 at 1:02 pm259,
Hell yes, this stuff goes back thousands of years. The Egyption Pharohs oppressed Isreal, the near and mideast had several periods of war long ago. All the good Christians who read the Bible should know this.
November 19th, 2005 at 1:05 pmHeHe, Just adding to the real conversation.lol
November 19th, 2005 at 1:07 pmI don’t see a UNIFORM on you, bitch!
November 19th, 2005 at 1:07 pmIt’s interesting that all the good conservatives who know the Bible, don’t connect the dots and see that fighting in the Middle East has never ended, it goes way back, it’s deep in the people, they never forget, it’s a part of their existence. A totally different animal than ever before.
November 19th, 2005 at 1:08 pmyea, like the time of the great flood.
November 19th, 2005 at 1:12 pmnow thats a story.
did you know that the great flood actually DID take place?
its proven that seashells could not have made it on dry land unless of course there actually was a great flood.
i too, think she is a raging bitch!!!! she is probably going through post menstrual symptoms! she is so evil like the rest of the republicans! we need a new congress minus republicans!!!
November 19th, 2005 at 1:13 pmunless somebody was trying to pull our leg and went around planting the seashells all over the entire world on dry land.
November 19th, 2005 at 1:13 pmyou know, i bet there were wars even BEFORE the great Flood.
November 19th, 2005 at 1:16 pmShe does have perty mouth, opens wide.
November 19th, 2005 at 1:17 pmmore like a hole in a tree stump.
November 19th, 2005 at 1:18 pmOnce again the Repubs are banking on the likelihood that both the public and the MSM will not pay attention to detail because it takes too much time. They know that Murtha’s proposal is not cut and run. I watched his press conference the other night (on C-Span)at which time he explained his proposal. He spoke of keeping troops in the region and maintaining the capability to strike inside Iraq when it was militarily and politically prudent. He spoke of attaining this goal in six months at the earliest. He also indicated that the military goals when we entered Iraq were to eliminate WMD’s and to oust Saddam. Both of those military goals have been achieved. He suggested that the next steps in Iraq require political and diplomatic solutions. He believes that the military has done all it can do.He agonized over the fact that our soldiers are now mere “targets” and should be taken out of harms way. Since the administration and the RW Repubs have no satisfactory response to Murtha, they create an illusory proposal, falsely label it as Murtha’s policy and vote it down all the while hoping we don’t notice because we are too busy to figure it out on our own and betting the MSM will echo their phony talking points. We cannot let them get away with this. Hopefully our people will appear on the nes and “talking head shows” and explain the truth. Given recent performances that is a tall order. We can only hope.
November 19th, 2005 at 1:19 pmGuess this little neocon whore will be out of a job.
Slam the little whore with e-mails. Tell her that chickenhawk traitors like her have no place in our society.
November 19th, 2005 at 1:25 pmI bet this place is america. alot of people say its not. but i dont think such an earthquake has happened yet, what do you think?
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
November 19th, 2005 at 1:31 pm17 ¶ And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.
do we not allready blasphem God?
November 19th, 2005 at 1:33 pmIsn’t ironic our president travels the world over promoting democracy….freedom of speech is part of democracy BUT in the United States. When anyone questions what the administration is doing they are smeared by the administration….The vice president advocates torture. the U.S. now ignores treaties that have been signed. the president thinks all countries must follow his concept of democracy..Maybe the people in other countries want to choose the way they are govern–democratic concept?..Talk to anyone who has traveled outside the U.S. and they can tell you how much the peoples of the world respect the U.S .
November 19th, 2005 at 1:40 pmThink Prgoress where is the thread about the debates last night? Comeon already, the Democrats freaking walking all ove the Republicans.
The Republicans kept trying to make it seem like the House was debating Rep Murtha’s resolution. Until finally the chair stood up and said “Mr. Speaker, are we debating the Hunter resolution or the Murtha resolution?†First the speaker replied back with “We are debating resolution 571.†the democratic chair then asked “Is resolution 571 Mr Hunters resolution or is it Mr Murtha’s resolution?†to which the Speaker replied “Mr Hunter’sâ€
You see the republicans want the world to think that Mr Murtha wants to “cut and run†Rep Murtha had to repeat himself a couple of times that his resolution did not call for imediate withdrawl and that it in fact called for redeployment.
It was Rep Hunter that put forth a vote on his own resolution to “cut and runâ€
So, the republicans put forth a resolution to “cut and run†in which they planned to vote down their own resolution making everybody think that they had just voted down Rep Murtha’s resolution.
The republicans thought that all of the democrats would vote for “cut and runâ€
To their shock, the democrats voted it down also.
So, any republican that says that democrats wnat to “cut and run†have just lost that talking point.
But, on the flip side watch for this to come from the republicans “Well, the democrats voted to keep our troops in Iraqâ€
November 19th, 2005 at 1:43 pmJEAN TWO, Bushie is talking about Saudi democracy. He isn’t an American and has no clue as to what American democracy looks like.
He’s a hand holding gay man who wears robes when behind closed doors.
He shares his bed with Karl Rove. Rove is the “man” in the relationship.
November 19th, 2005 at 1:44 pmif you were a king kong and i met you, i,d respect you in a way that you wouldn,t kill me.
November 19th, 2005 at 1:47 pmnow if i was king kong,(like bush thinks he is) I would DEMAND Respect.
November 19th, 2005 at 1:51 pmbut for a midget thinking hes king kong going arould demanding respect, people tend to laugh it off as a little dog (big bark, little bite).
but, the smaller they are the more venomuos they are,, be carefull of the little dog.
If Ted Kennedy can call Bush a liar in congress, why can’t Schmidt call Murtha a coward?
November 19th, 2005 at 1:57 pmCan you say CRUNT?
November 19th, 2005 at 1:59 pmThere’s actually more, though it was hard to hear with all the yelling…
SCHMIDT: …cowards cut and run, Marines never do. Danny and the rest of America and the world want the assurance from this body – that we will see this through [...I'll get you my pretty and your little dog too].
November 19th, 2005 at 2:09 pm#280
Because Bush Lied and Murtha is NO coward, IDIOT!
That was too EASY!
November 19th, 2005 at 2:12 pm“Because Bush Lied and Murtha is NO coward, IDIOT!”
I think both items are up for debate. Why is it you result to name calling when you can’t present an intelligent argument? So much for Democrates supporting free speech and the exchange of ideas.
November 19th, 2005 at 2:30 pmanymore dumb remarks?
November 19th, 2005 at 2:31 pmLemme see if I got the Republican Creed of Honor, Patriotism and Bravery right. You start an illegal bloody, and disasterous war. Although you yourself and the majority of your administration have never been to war and in fact avoided service in Vietnam, you shamelessly expect other people to fight in it and die in it. You and your supporters smear those who oppose the war as cowards and traitors although none of your oh so vocal supporters, their children, or your own children make the least move to join the military to fight in the war you say is so necessary that American soldiers need to continue dying in it. Now that’s Valor for you!
November 19th, 2005 at 2:33 pm#283
Heh hehe heh ehehheh
#284
“I think both items are up for debate.”
You would be one of the few people in the world right now that believes that.
November 19th, 2005 at 2:35 pmwhen you can’t present an intelligent argument?
November 19th, 2005 at 2:40 pmWith WHO? YOU?lol.
like I said, Too Easy.
November 19th, 2005 at 2:41 pm#284. Can you read?
November 19th, 2005 at 2:43 pmMay I suggest that you start at the Top, and KEEP reading Until you get to the very END WITHOUT COMMENTING, until you HAVE read all of it!
I think the republicans should listen to the kool aid left and start negotiating with the people who dismember children with explosives…..ya know, I’m sure that sounds better at a progressive cell meeting after a couple of bongs…..
November 19th, 2005 at 2:53 pmYes #291. We have dismembered children with our bombs, and have burned them alive with white phosphorous.
November 19th, 2005 at 2:56 pmBongs aside what is your point moron?
#291
After what happened to the republicans last night on the House floor. I don’t think anybody here, maybe anywhere, is going to take your retards seriously. You guys were made to look like imbiciles on International TV.
Better go check out those videos before you come here acting stupid.
November 19th, 2005 at 3:02 pmby the way , if you find any of my comments educating, you may cut and paste them.
November 19th, 2005 at 3:18 pmthey are FREE.
Here is a link to her site. You can send her messages through it.
http://www.house.gov/schmidt/
November 19th, 2005 at 3:25 pm#295
November 19th, 2005 at 3:30 pmThank You.
► WOW, Yet another Republican, Conservative SCUMBAG CHICKENHAWK.
November 19th, 2005 at 3:36 pmThis only helps to divide America more and more… 60’s here we come… We should send that fvcking conservative bitch out to Iraq and watch her sh|t herself. What a complete unAmerican idiot she is.
BTW, great picture… it really “captures” her… hahhaha….
November 19th, 2005 at 3:37 pmhttp://iamtv.tv
over 400,000 Iraqi dead over 2000 american dead how many more people do America have to kill to achieves Mister Bush and cheney war mongering apotite.
November 19th, 2005 at 3:42 pmDemocrat and republicans alike HAND IS A FULL OF BLLOD OF INNOCENT PEOPLE
sandrakae, do you know what zip code her district is in?
She won’t accept comments from folks outside her district.
Would appreciate the proper zip code, thanks.
November 19th, 2005 at 3:42 pmzipcode is on her site. not sure of postal code though.
November 19th, 2005 at 3:51 pmWashington, D.C. Office
238 Cannon HOB
Washington, DC 20515-3502
(202) 225-3164
Please allow 2-3 weeks for the processing of any mail sent to our Capitol Office to allow for the security and screening process. We appreciate your mail and want you to know that it is being dealt with as quickly as is safely possible.
Cincinnati Office
8044 Montgomery Rd. Suite 540
Cincinnati, OH 45236
(513)791-0381
(800)784-6366 Toll Free
November 19th, 2005 at 3:54 pmPortsmouth Office
601 Chillicothe St.
Portsmouth, OH 45662
(740)354-1440
What a Joke, Please allow 2-3weeks to allow screening.
November 19th, 2005 at 3:56 pmLOL! The Democrats are too cowardly to go on record withdrawing the troops!!!
The left has truly lost it. Looks like Jean Schmidt learned a thing or two running against that god awful mouthpiece Paul Hackett..
November 19th, 2005 at 4:11 pmDEMOCRATS ARE SPINELESS WIMPS who want it both ways on Iraq. You’re not getting it – and don’t you forget. If you call Bush a liar, you’re a traitor.
HIT BACK AND HIT BACK HARD. This was a great week for Republicans.
November 19th, 2005 at 4:13 pmSusan – put that hoagie down. You have work to do. The GOP is making a comeback and we’re bring the sledgehammers. You pigs have met your match – Jean Schmidt.
November 19th, 2005 at 4:22 pmBushie is a liar. Those who support him are liars.
RealFather, you need a nine digit zip code so I gave up.
I’ll call the whore on Monday.
November 19th, 2005 at 4:26 pmA comeback? Bahahaha, you work in the financial industry NED – dead in the head? You really should look up the meaning of ‘trendline’ sometime – clearly whoever has employeed you has overpaid!
Republicans are trending to oblivion!
November 19th, 2005 at 4:28 pmNED HAVE YOU READ THIS ARTICLE?
November 09, 2005
The Advocate
On September 29, 2005, shortly after 8 p.m., Amal Kadhum Swadi, and her
youngest son Safa were arrested by U.S. forces in the Ghazaliya district
of Baghdad on suspicion of planting an improvised explosive device.
They were just leaving their Baghdad home with other family members, and
had opened their garage door to take out the family car, when the Swadi
family were swarmed by multiple Humvees and numerous heavily armed U.S.
Soldiers with weapons drawn.
Haloed by headlights and surrounded by agitated soldiers, mother and son
were separated from each other and hidden from view of other family
members behind a wall of troops and humvees. They were blindfolded and
handcuffed tightly with the plastic zap straps and hoods that have
become potent symbols of the dehumanization Iraqis under occupation.
Ms. Swadi and Safa were made to squat on the highway’s dirt embankment
while Zaid, her eldest son, was issued a handwritten receipt for his
mother and brother. As Zaid yelled into the crowd of soldiers, trying to
get response from his mother, Ms. Swadi and Safa were being packed into
humvees for the trip to the Airport Detention Facility
for further processing,
leaving Zaid in a cloud of dust, clutching his receipt and trying to
console his sobbing sister.
I first met Amal Swadi
in Istanbul,
at the culminating session of The World Tribunal on Iraq
. Ms. Swadi was part of the Iraqi
delegation invited to give testimony on their experiences of occupation;
as a lawyer representing women held in Abu Ghraib and other U.S. and
British detention facilities in Iraq, Ms. Swadi was there to speak on
the degenerating state of human rights.
As I found out, Ms. Swadi
is no stranger to the occupation, or the media
covering it. As a lawyer willing to take on the mass of occupation, she
is well known for her outspoken advocacy for those unfortunates caught
in the machinery of occupation.
Amal Swadi is 52, and was accompanied to the Istanbul tribunal by her
daughter, and eldest son Zaid, who is also a lawyer. At the events
opening party, I was presented to Ms. Swadi and Zaid, whose love and
respect for his mother were instantly apparent. He studied me closely as
I was introduced, and when I put my hand out to shake his mother’s, he
smiled and took it warmly.
Ms. Swadi, a humble religious woman, immediately forgave my lack of
understanding of Islamic culture, and after a short conversation, agreed
to be interviewed (the video of this interview will be available shortly).
Ms. Swadi’s involvement with investigations into female prisoners of the
occupation started when she was told about a message the women detained
in Abu Ghraib were trying to get to the resistance. The message, which
had become public knowledge in the streets of Bagdad, was begging the
resistance to attack Abu Ghraib with rockets, as the women held inside
had given up hope, and could no longer bare the gross abuses and torture
inflicted upon them daily. In Islam, as in Christianity, suicide is
regarded as an ultimate sin, so these women were asking to be killed.
Since then, Ms. Swadi has tirelessly worked for the recognition and
release of these detainees (at the time I met her, she was representing
nine of these shadow women).
Ms. Swadi told me of her visits to Abu Ghraib, and the difficulties she
experienced in trying to gain access to the women held inside, including
U.S. force’s outright denial of the women’s existence. When attempts to
intimidate her did not work, dismissive guardsmen simply turned her
away. When Ms. Swadi returned to Abu Ghraib for her second visit, she
was accompanied by a determination cast in the previous sleepless night.
Her resolve was eventually rewarded, and after waiting all day in one of
the compound’s courtyards under the desert sun, without water or food,
she was finally allowed access to her clients (six in total). Ms. Swadi
told me the emotion of the experience was overwhelming, and she broke
down and sobbed along with the first detainee presented.
Detainees were presented to her in a small, dark cement room that looked
to be set up for interrogations. The women were escorted into the room
through a heavy door behind a chair and desk. The guards accompanying
her remained inches from these broken souls throughout the visits (it is
referred to as being ‘in control’ of their subject).
The first woman detainee presented was a young woman in her 20’s. She
was in poor condition, pale and gaunt, barely able to stand, and looked
to be suffering from mental collapse. The woman stared at the floor, and
when she did finally look up and see her visitor from the outside world,
the two broke down.
During her brief interview, hindered not only by the woman’s captors who
hovered only inches away at all times, but also by the woman’s fragile,
quivering voice, Ms. Swadi learned how this woman’s young son and
brother were killed in front of her during a raid on her home conducted
by U.S. forces. She carried a crudely stitched wound the length of her
forearm, which came from the bayonet of a soldier involved in the raid.
Since her arrest, the woman had been held naked in a small cement cell,
without proper bedding or toilet. The woman spoke of rape and torture at
the hands of her American and Iraqi captors. With Congress being
presented with the images of Iraqi women forced to bare themselves as
U.S. soldiers held guns to their heads, and with the Pentagon’s own
acknowledgment of rape in their detention facilities, it is not hard to
give credence to Ms. Swadi’s claims.
General Antonio Taguba
, appointed
to head the Pentagon’s investigation into Abu Ghraib torture and abuse
allegations (which was restricted to investigation into members of the
800th Military Police Brigade ),
acknowledged that U.S. soldiers participated in rape at the prison. This
acknowledgment came in the form of an inter-Pentagon memo in which
General Taguba referred to images of American guards ‘having sex’ with
female Iraqi detainees.
Mr. Taguba’s choice of language when referring to rape is revealing, and
further clarifies the Pentagon’s desensitized, casual attitude towards
these crimes.
These images clearly depict violent sex crimes
, with
one congressman who was given access to these images collected by the
Pentagon, stating that he believes the release will spark massive
demonstrations and endanger Americans abroad
(hardly the image of ‘consensual sex’ alluded to by Taguba).
General Taguba also reported that U.S. soldiers made videos of these
violent sex crimes
, a
common practice amongst sex offenders, who often take trophies from
their crimes to help them relive the event later; it is a practice that
has aided greatly in prosecuting these offenders and will hopefully do
the same in these cases. General Taguba has also acknowledged at least
two pregnancies resulting from these sex crimes involving female
detainees in Abu Ghraib.
With a recent attempt by the Senate to ban the Pentagon’s use of
torture, and President Bush’s response of threatened veto of this bill,
along with White House negotiations
to exempt the CIA
from any restraint with regards to torture, the image of a systematic
use of torture
becomes
illuminated. For those already aware of the Phoenix Operation
and the CIA’s past
publication of torture manuals, this comes as no surprise.
On January 27, 1997, Baltimore Sun journalists Gary Cohn
, Ginger
Thompson
,
and Mark Matthews ran a story in their paper under the headline “Torture
was taught by CIAâ€. The reporters relied heavily on two manuals printed
by the CIA, and released under pressure from the Sun’s 1994 freedom of
information challenge. The first manual, entitled KUBARAK
Counterintelligence Interrogation- July 1963, along with the updated
Human Resources Exploitation Training Manual-1983 Human Resources
Exploitation Training Manual-1983
, paint a
picture of decades of CIA torture policy.
Although the Pentagon has maintained that these manuals were created
only for educational purposes, in order to help U.S. troops identify
torture facilities, the manuals themselves refute this position.
The 1963 manual states in the section entitled The Coercive
Counterintelligence Interrogation of Resistant Sources that “drugs (and
the other aids discussed in this section) should not be used
persistently to facilitate the interrogative debriefing that follows
capitulation. Their function is to cause capitulation, to aid in the
shift from resistance to cooperation. Once this shift has been
accomplished, coercive techniques should be abandoned both for moral
reasons and because they are unnecessary and even counter-productive.â€
The 1963 version also deals with the layout of ‘interrogation’
facilities, as noted in the Sun’s article. The manual states: “the
electric current should be known in advance, so that transformers or
other modifying devices will be on hand if needed.â€
It is important to note that the updated 1983 manual first came to light
publicly when it was recovered by resistance forces in Guatemala
, who recovered it
from U.S. backed military death squads in that country, who acquired
this manual from the CIA School of the Americas
training camp in Fort Benning, Georgia. It is
also important to note that the U.S. embassy in neighboring Honduras has
been generally accepted as the headquarters of CIA operations in Central
America, with John Negroponte
acting as ambassador
during the bloody 1980’s (the same Negroponte
apointed
ambassador to Iraq when torture policy in Iraq first came to light).
These two manuals, and the visage of years of torture policy in Vietnam
under the watchful eyes of the CIA, leave any argument of ‘rogue
element’ responsibility for torture rather than systematic policy,
totally unbelievable and impotent.
In the closing years of the U.S. occupation of Vietnam, and as it became
more publicly obvious the U.S. was fighting those it claimed to protect
(that in fact attacks on U.S. forces deep inside South Vietnam were
being launched by the South Vietnamese themselves), the CIA launched a
massive counter intelligence campaign aimed at targeting the South
Vietnamese resistance,
code named Phoenix.
With the Phoenix operation, the CIA started to compile lists of
Vietnamese persons of interest. These lists were based on collected data
and information gathered during subject ‘interviews’, and listed men,
women and children as young as 15
and as old as 70.
This intelligence-gathering program was jointly run by US agents and
those they recruited amongst the South Vietnamese forces. The
administration of this program was eventually handed over completely to
South Vietnamese forces, which kept no record of their victims; The CIA
however, did, and by the end of official CIA involvement in Phoenix,
over 20,000 Vietnamese listed had been tortured and murdered.
In 1971, Bart Osborn ,
a former CIA agent, told Congress “I never knew in the course of all
those operations, any detainee to live through his interrogation. They
all died. There was never any reasonable establishment of the fact that
any one of those individuals was, in fact, cooperating with the VC, but
they all died and the majority were either tortured to death or . . .
thrown out of helicopters.”
As Nick Schou reports
, “Operation Phoenix
detainees were tortured with electric shocks applied to their genitals,
while women prisoners were typically raped, occasionally with foreign
objects.†(hauntingly similar to claims of treatment of modern Iraqi
detainees).
Mr. Schou also points out in his article: Operation Phoenix Rises from
the Ashes of History, that the CIA is now employing the Saddam era
Mukhabarat (Iraqi Secret Intelligence similar in scope to the CIA) to
investigate resistance support. Mr. Schou relies on statements by
Vincent Cannistraro, a former chief of CIA counter-terrorism, to
highlight what this means. Cannistraro was quoted in the Sunday
Telegraph as saying “They’re clearly cooking up joint teams to do
Phoenix-like things, like they did in Vietnam.”
As an advocate for those held without charge or trial by an occupation
rooted in illegality, and under the increasing scrutiny of a world
skeptical of U.S. intentions in Iraq, Amal Swadi is a person of interest
indeed.
Amal Swadi and her 17-year-old son Safa, were brought into the heart of
the machinery of occupation for processing. Ms Swadi blindfold and
shackles were removed and she was instructed by her interrogator to
answer questions related to her person.
Ms. Swadi and Safa, were fingerprinted and made to undergo retinal
scans. Her name, her husband’s name, and the names of her children were
all documented. She was also asked her age, her address, and her
occupation. Most alarming however was the collection of data on her
religious status; apparently the U.S. military occupation felt it was
pertinent to document if Ms. Swadi was Shia or Sunni.
What must be addressed is the motivation of U.S. occupational forces in
recording individual’s religious affiliations in a country that is
increasingly being divided along these very same religious lines, both
in reality and by an oversimplified, blood frenzied corporate media
intent on enflaming old rivalries. Why would U.S. forces be creating
databases of information that could further pressurize this unstable
situation (this also at a time of U.S. collusion with Saddam era secret
police)?
During the years of heavy U.N. sanctions, most in Iraq depended upon
government assistance to supplement their nutritional needs. This aid
came in the form of food rations, and was facilitated through the
issuance of ration cards. In order to receive a card, information was
given and processed, but the question of religious affiliation was not
included. Much like in Tito’s Yugoslavia, the secular Saddam era Iraq
did not want religious distinction to become paramount. This lack of
statistical data leaves in question population figures with regards to
religious denomination continually referred to by occupational forces
and parroted by the corporate media.
For Saddam Hussein, as it was for Tito
, national identity was key to
maintaining power, which simply meant stripping religion of any
importance in public life. It was in fact this disregard for religion
that made fundamentalist al-Qa’ida and Saddam Hussein bitter enemies.
The effect of this continual simplification of issues into Shia and
Sunni has helped fuel a civil divide that is now being used as an excuse
for occupation
(Simply argued by both the British and U.S. occupational forces; if we
leave they will kill each other).
It also hints of what was referred to as the ‘Vietnamising of the war’
in the
later stages of that occupation. In an effort to reduce American
casualties, the Pentagon trained native troops to do most of the heavy
casualty fighting of occupation by fueling communist/capitalist phobias
much in the same way religious difference is being highlighted now.
Although Ms. Swadi and Safa’s stories end for the time being on the
limited high note of release (after being ‘tagged’ and ‘processed’ like
livestock, mother and son were released back into the general population
without further harm), the experience forewarns the enormity of the
human rights disaster being perpetrated against the civilian population
of Iraq in the name of democracy. It also explains why this information
remains a mystery to most Americans, as this arrest clearly demonstartes
the tactics used by a corrupt occupation to intimidate any daring to
stand up.
Although generally unreported, this physical and psychological genocide
is well underway and is being carried out by a U.S. Administration and
Pentagon learned in the powers of terrorism and civil divide. It is a
leadership willing to rape, torture, and murder much in the same way the
U.S. war machine did in Vietnam, and as in Vietnam (which saw over 4
million direct deaths and countless others who continue to die from the
arbitrary use of the WMD Agent Orange), this current illegal and
emboldened occupation will likely post similar genocidal tallies if not
made to immediately account for its activities and be held responsible
for these actions.
Andrew Stromotich is an independent journalist and founding member of
Dropframe Communications.
Video interview of Ms. Swadi at the Istanbul WTI shot for Dropframe by
Rana Al-Aioubi and Andrew Stromotich will be released soon at
http://www.dropframe.ca
_______________________________________________
(c)2004, 2005 Dahr Jamail.
All images, photos, photography and text are protected by United States and
international copyright law. If you would like to reprint Dahr’s Dispatches on
the web, you need to include this copyright notice and a prominent link to the
http://DahrJamailIraq.com website. Website by photographer Jeff Pflueger’s
Photography Media http://jeffpflueger.com . Any other use of images,
photography, photos and text including, but not limited to, reproduction, use on
another website, copying and printing requires the permission of Dahr Jamail. Of
course, feel free to forward Dahr’s dispatches via email.
More writing, commentary, photography, pictures and images at
November 19th, 2005 at 4:29 pmhttp://dahrjamailiraq.com
I love it, Hackett a war hero, is a ‘mouthpiece’, but miss bomb an abortion clinic whacko BitchSchmidt is to be admired?
bahaha, now that’s just one more clinically insane that the butt ugly 70s closet gay porn actor MizzNED says. Classic republican freakazoid denials!
No wonder bush has a 34% approval rating with mental midgets like you guys supporting him! Retire now, and move to Iran and become a Mullah, you have no hope of ever having success or happiness in this country NED.
November 19th, 2005 at 4:30 pmRyan – admit it. Democrats are SPINELESS COWARDS who don’t even have the balls to admit they want to pullout of Iraq. AND I won’t need to go to Iran – I will have a GOP majority and a hard right Supreme Court.
Paul Hackett is a liar. HE exploited his 7-month military service to attack the President. I guess that’s more than zippo Kerry.
We will be investigating Murka come the New Year. He has some inside dealings with his brother that will be exposed.
November 19th, 2005 at 4:34 pmAre there any alternative sites for this video? It appears corrupted from every player, browser & PC I throw at it. I get sound & motion for the first view seconds but then it falls apart.
November 19th, 2005 at 4:35 pmYou people really are idiots. THANK YOU. The GOP could never win elections without your stupidity.
AND Ryan – that poll giving Bush a 34% approval gives congressional Dems a reading of 25%. People HATE liberals because they know you are evil.
November 19th, 2005 at 4:36 pmhttp://www.c-span.org/homepage.asp
November 19th, 2005 at 4:43 pmJust in- Chinese Authorities place Bush under House arrest for Trespassing on Chinese Soil, and for War Criminal Charges..
November 19th, 2005 at 4:45 pmNow Thats Headlines.
RYAN – Democrats are cowards – lol!! They don’t represent you.
The screaming you hear in this blog is the dying of leftism. This country is conservative. Americans HATE liberals!!
November 19th, 2005 at 4:51 pmThere are 12 Veterans who have agreed to run (as democrats) for current republican seats in congress. If democrats are so ‘anti-military’, why are so many veterans of present and past wars lining up to run for the party? And why are virtually no republican candidates veterans?
That’s an easy one, republicans are chickenhawks who send soldiers to war poorly trained, poorly equiped, against their signup agreements, and then have the balls to cut their benefits when they come back home!
Republicans are completely anti-military, and any claim to the contrary is just whacko fascist lunacy!
REPUBLICAN = ANTI-MILITARY
November 19th, 2005 at 5:12 pmREPUBLICAN = ANTI-AMERICAN
REPUBLICAN = FASCIST
REPUBLICAN = DICTATOR
REPUBLICAN = MORON
Bahaha, the country is ‘conservative’? Bahahaha,
You really should get out more you little loser whacko.
Bush is at 34% approval rating, and the majority of americans are against EVERY SINGLE REPUBLICAN POLICY!
Bahaha, you know, someone as psychotic and insane as you really should be in a straightjacket…
November 19th, 2005 at 5:14 pmAfter what happened last night, I truly find NeDs comments to be completely empty and laughable.
“They Republican party is making a comeback. ”
Hahhah hahaha ha haha ha hah ah ahha ha ahah aha ha hah aha ha haahahah ahahaha hah ah aha ahaha ha ah ah aha ha ah a ha ah aha hah ahah aha ah ah ah ah ah Ha ha ha ah aha ha ah H ah H ahA Hahah ahAha ahahahah ah ahah ah ah ahah ha ha hahahhahahahah ah h ah ahah ah ah ha ahhah ah ah a hahah hahahah a.
Can’t breathe…….
November 19th, 2005 at 5:15 pmBush is in China Seeking Political asylum .
November 19th, 2005 at 5:18 pmOMfG, I am going to puke:
Where will President Bush build his library?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10017897/site/newsweek/
November 19th, 2005 at 5:24 pmNED,
You know why congressional democrats poll low, because they aren’t seen as doing enough to stop you. Not the same thing, little whacko pervert :)
I would tell you to do your research, but we know that option is futile :)
November 19th, 2005 at 5:30 pmBy a margin of 53% to 42%, Americans want Congress to impeach President Bush if he lied about the war in Iraq.
Yeah, republicans are REAL popular. America sees you for the liars, fools and traitors that you are…
REPUBLICAN = LOSER
November 19th, 2005 at 5:33 pmOhio Representive Danny R. Bubp(kiss) (R) appears to be a pumpkinhead, as are the voters that put him in office, apparently.
Representive Bubp(kiss) should be ashamed of himself, as should Congresswoman Schmidt and the voters that put them both in office.
Congresswoman Schmidt, the Nazi Party called…they’re looking for a new spokeswoman.
November 19th, 2005 at 5:33 pmA NeD=
November 19th, 2005 at 5:33 pm(wikipedia?)
Divisive issues include evolution, free trade, and the legalization of soft drugs; although the organization has an official policy of not permitting racism, some posts clearly show it. Examples include calling Palestinian children “bombs still growing” (a reference to suicide bombing), racial references in the song parody Crying (Frying Abu-Jamal) [2], and frequent references to the French as “weasels” [3]; however, many posters receive suspensions or even bans for posting material considered racist. The moderators often remove or ban posters who criticize Israel, the invasion of Iraq or Afghanistan war, etc., from its discussion boards. Material that criticizes the administration of George W. Bush is typically not permitted, and posts which do are quickly censored and the member banned. Some topics may be broached by older members but are forbidden to newcomers.
Yet a September 2004 CBS News poll found that 72 percent of Americans say they have either not been affected by the Bush tax cuts or that their taxes have actually gone up.
November 19th, 2005 at 5:36 pmWashinton Posts 2003 national poll found that almost two-thirds of Americans say they prefer a universal healthcare system “that’s run by the government and financed by taxpayers” as opposed to the current private, for-profit system.
Same thing with prescription drugs.
On energy policy, those who want government to mandate higher fuel efficiency in cars are labeled “lefties,” even though a 2004 Consumers Union poll found that 81 percent of Americans support the policy.
I can go on and on. Same thing for abortion rights, etc. etc.
Republicans are on the wrong side of EVERY argument, and are the minority opinion for every issue.
November 19th, 2005 at 5:41 pmNED, the anti-psychotic meds work better if you actually swallow.
Now open wide like Schmidt and swallow.
November 19th, 2005 at 6:02 pmThat skanky crook should stfu. If she is representing the people of Ohio then why is her state the leader in job losses for the third quater 2005? I suppose she is busy selling out our american workforce to 3rd world communist countries.
Ironic, that a marine tells her to tell Murtha about cowardice. Since when do marines have such a lack of testicular fortitude that they send a woman to relay a marine’s message? Not that I have ANY respect for mercenaries er marines or any soldier for that matter. Never in my lifetime has a soldier ever fought for my freedom. Ever. So screw em all.
November 19th, 2005 at 6:03 pmI’m not getting this video. Nothing is downloading when I click on the photo–anybody else?
November 19th, 2005 at 6:13 pmI thought HEIDI FLOSS was no longer in business. Looks like I was mistaken.
People of Ohio can’t you recall this Diebold-selected ghoul?
November 19th, 2005 at 6:44 pmComment by Red State blue “Fourth, that is why, in this time of war – however much you may disagree with its beginnings – the only way to support the troops is to support their mission and their commander in chief.”
I have to say I agree with “Teddy”
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.” — President Theodore Roosevelt
November 19th, 2005 at 6:46 pmTell Jack Murtha how you feel.
http://democrats.org/page/petition/shameonthem
November 19th, 2005 at 6:48 pmI thought HEIDI FLOSS was no longer in business. Looks like I was mistaken.
People of Ohio can’t you recall this Diebold-selected ghoul?
November 19th, 2005 at 6:50 pmhttp://0601.netclime.net/1_5/Y/0/J/hijacking_catastroph.ram
November 19th, 2005 at 6:57 pmIf you are too lazy to read about PNAC
“All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.†– Thomas Jefferson
November 19th, 2005 at 7:03 pmAnd to think this is just a warm-up to the 2006 elections. Yesterday’s action in the HOUSE was the starter’s pistol going off.
November 19th, 2005 at 7:17 pm#321 – it’ll be a very small library – after all, how musch space does one need for his Archie comic book collection and his very own copy of “My Pet Goat”?
November 19th, 2005 at 7:28 pm“All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.†– Thomas Jefferson
November 19th, 2005 at 7:33 pmAnd Bush is the TYRANT!
Thats why we are NOT remaining silent, NO MORE! WAR!
NO MORE WAR FOR OIL!
BRING THEM HOME NOW!
RALLY AGAINST TYRANT BUSH EVIKGELICALS
That we will see “what” through? What is the “noble cause”?
November 19th, 2005 at 7:33 pmWould one of you right-wing-nuts please explain this?
Is it “spreading freedom”? If it is, please tell the rest of us who or what gives us the authority to dictate to the rest of the world how they should live?
Next please explain why we SHOULDN’T hear the “why for’s” that got us into this war, when neither WMD’s, links to 9/11, or any number of the rationals given for thousands dead have been at their very least been “dead wrong”, or at their worst intentional?
I think this is it. I know there is so much more I would like answers to, but that should be enough for you wing-nuts to chew on for now. And do please, by all means, chock!
Ned, Think Progress is currently crafting a new children’s site. It would be best if you and Ann Coulter visited there from now on and leave this arena for the adults. Understand? Now run away and don’t speak unless you are spoken to.
November 19th, 2005 at 7:35 pmHIT BACK AND HIT BACK HARD!
November 19th, 2005 at 8:15 pm#134 – Mike L, I hope this was sarcasm!
#197 – Bluestate red, Please, tell me what the mission is.
#316 – Only 1 in 10 voters would vote for a Republican who agrees with Bush on most issues.
November 19th, 2005 at 8:21 pmWhen you possess something hard NED, let us know. We will be sure to log off.
November 19th, 2005 at 8:23 pmSissys like ned threaten violence?
November 19th, 2005 at 8:25 pmbecareful ned , you wouldnt want to hurt your feelings, or your precious transgender lifestyle.now WOULD YOU?
NED,
Great advice, that’s what we’re doing. And it’s also why you and your wussy fascist republican party is sucking wind – you theiving retarded little loser :)
See the problem is republicans have no ammunition. You’re killing off our military, our economy, our workers and jobs, as well as our civil liberties. Americans can see you are the party of death and failure. Without diebold and a coup d’etat, republicans got bumpkus!
Republican shall be the synomym for LOSER in the 21st century, the way WHIG was in the 19th century. And for those that don’t know, WHIG was the loser party that died and was re-incarnated as the republican party. Looks like we’re in for a little history repeating itself…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Whig_Party
America woke up to the whigs, just as it is now awake to their unholy republican child. The authoritarian and classist republican nitwits have always been the bane of american civilization, but each time they gain power and screw up, america lurches left in a HUGE way. In the end the country is better for their failures…
November 19th, 2005 at 8:47 pmThis Article will exceed 350. just becuase of one stupid remark from a dimwit congesswoman from ohio.
November 19th, 2005 at 8:54 pmisnt that where that dumb tv show originated from?
#321>338 -
November 19th, 2005 at 9:10 pmWith W’s reading ability, they will have to stock it with Golden Books. Dick and Jane in the advanced section.
Comment #23 What’s the matter with Ohio?
IMO the problem with Ohio is the same problem as every other state in the USA, namely it is overrun with americans. Not that tiny fraction of americans who recognize that the earth is a shared dwelling and as such requires the use of diplomacy, cooperation, compassion, consideration and honesty when dealing with the other tenants and in doing so would have the right to expect the same in return. Not that tiny fraction of americans who invest at least some time and effort in an attempt to educate themselves about the planet they share and as a result could come to be recognized as modest, humble, intelligent people that would serve your country well as it’s leaders and representatives to the world (unlike the current idiot-in-chief who publically refers to the citizens of Greece as ‘Grecians’ rather than Greeks). This level of enlightenment may be okay for the kid working the drive-thru at burger king, but to have it come from your top diplomat, your twice!! elected president and to know that Ohio is at least half full of like-minded americans of similar intellect who support Smirky W. McFlightsuit while he plays “War President” is exactly whats the matter with Ohio. Saddam doesn’t have WMD’s, but the USA does and look at the moron Ohio has empowered to control them. It is this inability to rise to at least a minimum required amount of independant thought before casting a ballot that puts George “heck of a job Brownie” Bush in a position to not only destroy your own country through corruption and gross incompetence but as an added bonus threaten and/or destroy soveriegn nations with little more than transparent lies as a justification. The other half of Ohio no doubt is longing for the return of the Democratic Party to some sort of relevance, never once realizing that this just the other half of the ‘good cop-bad cop’ soap opera that is and has been american corporate politics for so long. Why does every american think that a person’s ‘war record’ has any bearing on an individual’s ability to hold elected office? It’s been 60 years since the USA (and any other country for that matter) has been involved in a justifiable war and if there are world war two veterans out runing for office then fine, go ahead and dig up their records and judge how that person reacts under difficult circumstances. Every war since 1945 has been based on bullshit that the american public swallows whole. The war on communism, the war on cold, the war on drugs, and especially the war on terror, all bullshit. More telling than an indidual’s war record is the war record of your country as a whole. The USA has been involved in a war of some kind for 60 years since 1945. Every generation of americans has the opportunity to go to war and with luck and good PR may someday be elected to office because of that all important ‘war record’. Stop with the “support the troops” lip service that every corner of america patriotically spouts whenever a television camera is pointed at them, its hypocritical. If you want to support them, have them stop terror bombing Iraqi civillians and get them the hell out of there. Maybe they could be more useful in New Orleans, you remember that city with all the dead bodies floating for days in the flooded streets. Who really cares if the chimp-in-chief’s war record shows he was a vietnam era coward, what really defines his lack of character is he was also a hurricane katrina era coward.
November 19th, 2005 at 9:13 pmWell, from here on out ALL the blood is on the Republican’s hands. You can’t wash up too soon now, the 2006 races will come around fast.
November 19th, 2005 at 9:31 pmOh darnit. I was trying soo hard to be #350. oh, well, better luck next time, in the meantime. PEACE be with YOU!
November 19th, 2005 at 9:36 pmSkeletora Very Angry… but that’d be the worms in her brain… hey, I know.
Chimpy W. McFlightsuit
November 19th, 2005 at 9:37 pmchimpy=George the monkey
November 19th, 2005 at 9:41 pmw=wrong,wrong,wrong.
mcflightsuit=mcguyver?
#349 -
November 19th, 2005 at 10:08 pmThe Greeks were the first civilization to denude and destroy their environment. Greece, once a fertile and productive land is now a virtual desert. W is keen to do this on a worldwide basis. Why he promotes this eludes me as the result is just decades away. Does he believe that Armageddon is just around the corner? God bless us everyone(Thanks Tiny Tim).
she’s literally wrapped herself in the flag. where do these pigs come from?
November 19th, 2005 at 10:09 pmFrom sties.
November 19th, 2005 at 10:18 pmFrom Church.
November 19th, 2005 at 10:51 pmI’m from Ohio, and would like to apologize for this dumb bitch.
November 19th, 2005 at 11:04 pmI watched the video. I did not hear Schmidt say “Murtha, you are a coward.” She made a statement about cowards and what they do. How does she know what the fallen Marine thought? Perhaps his family told her! I don’t know. I wasn’t there. Be careful what you do and don’t imply in someone elses’ words.
Murtha went to Iraq and spoke to Marines that I know who are half way though their tour there. One of them is a Capt who is on his second tour, back to back. It is an honor to know this man. He is truely an officer and a gentelman. He spoke to Murtha while he was in Iraq. Today he heard what Murtha had to say and told me Murtha obviously was not listening to him. There are some REALLY PISSED OFF MARINES in Iraq right now who are more determined than ever to finish what they started! How many of you talk to our warriors day in and day out about what they are doing and how they feel? Sure, many don’t want to be there. I know a few and my heart breaks for them. They are really suffering. In the same respect, there are a hell of a lot who believe in what they are accomplishing on the streets and in the neighborhoods, on a very personal level. They are seeing the changes in the lives and attitudes of many Iraqis. Changes for the better. For them, this war has nothing to do with oil, WMD etc. It is all about giving Iraqis their country back, free from dictatorship.
Murtha said it is not the criticism that brings morale down but… WHAT? He was in Nam! He ought to know how criticism cuts like a knife in their backs! I know this because our Marines are telling me this!!!! They feel betrayed!! Do they speak for every service member in Iraq? Absolutely not. But they do speak for a hell of a lot of them.
Who, out of all of the people in the world, want peace in the world the most? Who wants peace more than you? Who wants this war over with more than you? Who would rather be home right now watching football and drinking a beer rather than sucking up sand and dodging mortars and IEDs half a world away?? It is our service members, especially the infantry who are on the front lines. Because if there is no peace, they are the ones who pay the price. But they do what they do and sacrifice like they do because so many know that if it were not for men like them, our country and the world would be a much different place. They will be the first to tell you that war is hideous and horrible and should never be an option. At the same time, war has been a fact of life since the beginning. It will always be. All of this is what they are telling me.
I can not believe how low and vulgar all of you are in expressing your thoughts. You are free to believe what you want. But can’t you at least express your views in a dignified manner? You really shed a bad image of yourselves when you speak like this. “A real father” said he blames women. Assuming he has children, what disrespect to the mother of his children and his own mother, unless, of course, he hates them both……
When you click ‘Post – I agree” you agree that you will NOT “Post any content to the Blog that is unlawful, racist, hateful, libelous, defamatory, obscene, or that intentionally discriminates against or harasses particular individuals or groups” Most of you apparently DON’T agree to the site’s Terms of Use agreement, but click as though you do anyway. Go read it.
November 19th, 2005 at 11:08 pmFace it she was right. Murtha has used the military to make money for his fanily and is soon to be under an ehtics investigation. Accept the facts and stop hating america and those who seek to destroy her.
November 19th, 2005 at 11:09 pmRegarding my post….excuse me, but lest you misunderstand, our service members I spoke of do not think the war is only about freeing the Iraqis from dictatorship, but making sure dictatorship and terrorism do not rule – anywhere. They would rather fight terrorism on foreign soil as opposed to on their own.
November 19th, 2005 at 11:18 pmRegarding my post….excuse me, but lest you misunderstand, our service members I spoke of do not think the war is only about the Iraqis, but making sure dictatorship and terrorism do not rule – anywhere. They would rather fight terrorism on foreign soil as opposed to on their own.
November 19th, 2005 at 11:20 pmLimbless,
I agree that repub;icans should stop hating america. It’s good advice that schmidt and the rest of the hateful unamerican republicans should follow.
November 19th, 2005 at 11:34 pmCathy (11:20)~ And yet on our own soil, civil rights are falling like ten pins and yet our troops are still dying. New Orleans is still a mess, residents are still homeless and now about to be kicked out of their temporary shelters, and the people that would normally (back in the good old days of Clinton when FEMA was a capable agency) be the ones helping to rebuild for OUR citizens are stuck in a war zone that has accomplished NOTHING that was touted back at the start of this hideous mess… America has a wannabe dictator, an administration that has repeatedly shown its disregard for WE THE PEOPLE, and we have caused the deaths of thousands of innocents as well as our own children, spouses and parents. Yeah, I’m so worried about expressing myself in a “dignified” manner. This is an obscenity and the visceral response for many is one that is neither refined nor should it be. Just calling it as we see it, ya know?
November 19th, 2005 at 11:37 pmCathy- Thank you for elevating the level of discourse. You are, in my opinion, quite right to chide some posters for their unhelpful, emotional, even offensive comments. And thank you for providing moral support to our troops outre mer. But do you know the old expression, “tell it to the marines”…? It refers to mistruths, the conventional wisdom being that marines were willfully misinformed by their superiors, for security reasons. Today, they are, again in my opinion, misinformed for political reasons. The Baathist regime in Iraq did not attack this country. It posed no credible threat, still less an immanent one. I am pleased and unsuprised to hear that many soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines are deeply commited to the tasks assigned them, and undertaking them with clear moral purpose. Nonetheless, their deployment was an egregious abuse of power by their political leaders, illegal, immoral and unwise. This war is an unconscionable breach of faith with those who have sworn their sweat and tears and blood to the defense of this land. It is time we showed ourselves worthy of their sacrifice and trust. It is time to (ina an orderly and measured fashion) bring them home.
November 19th, 2005 at 11:44 pmMaybe someone should throw water on “Wicked Witch Schmidt” and see what happens.
November 19th, 2005 at 11:48 pmIt is not sexist to note the fact that Schmidt is female — it is an obvious fact –yet pretending she knows that which actual male veterans and men know as the pool from which the fodder is drawn. Women and children are traditionally protected by society’s sacrifice of males; no woman knows what it is like to have the Damocles of the draft negating their future during wartime. I’ll not pretend otherwise.
As I am against not identifying women “heroes” as female, I am also against pretending a female slanderer isn’t female, or that it doesn’t matter that she is. If women can routinely — and they do — call men “pricks,” then men are granted by that the liberty to call such women the equivalent: c–t.
Bitch is too mild for such a vile creature.
The overwhelming majority oppose the war. The overwhelming majority have Murtha’s back. Lying slime Schmidt notwithstanding.
November 19th, 2005 at 11:49 pmGeorge W. Bush is the third AntiChrist; Mabus
1. Take the “Ma” in Mabus and vertically flip it upside down to get “Wg”
Mabus –> Wg(Ma vertically flipped) + bus = Wgbus
2. Trade the places of “W” and “g”
Wgbus –> gW(”W” and “g”’s places reversed) + bus = gWbus
3. Add an “H” to the end of “gWbus”
gWbus + H = gWbusH = G. W. Bush = George W. Bush
November 19th, 2005 at 11:57 pmWow that’s some crazy contortions you had to go through there Nostradamus.
I agree Bush is evil, but we really don’t need to bend over backwards for proof.
November 20th, 2005 at 1:54 amThe GOP is full of Schmidt!
Check it out here;
http://www.cafepress.com/fullofschmidt
November 20th, 2005 at 5:08 amI also tried calling her office and the mailbox was full. Guess all those people were trying to congratuate
November 20th, 2005 at 6:46 amher on her total stupidity and arrogance. But I did find her website and filled in all the blanks that could possibly get me a meeting with her. In the comment section you can say exactly what you think and then those morons thank you for wanting to meet with the bitch. Of course the comment will be tossed but at least I was able to rant.
Has anyone contacted Ohio Rep. Danny Bupb to see if Schmidt quoted him accurately, or if in fact he said anything to Schmidt?
http://www.house.state.oh.us/jsps/MemberDetails.jsp?DISTRICT=88
district88@ohr.state.oh.us
November 20th, 2005 at 7:29 am#366.
November 20th, 2005 at 10:20 amWhile you are at it, Throw water over Cathy.
Cathy, Oh Cathy,,,,
November 20th, 2005 at 10:23 amTo Prove you do Not Know what You are talking about!
I WAS IN Afganistan, and One of My DAUGHTERS WAS IN IRAQ,
Where were YOUR KIDS? Where is Your Husband?
SHUTUP WITCH!
Cathy,
This war isn’t “a fact of life”. It was completely unnecessary. Those who truly support the troops want them to come home.
As far as the lowbrow comments you so rightly abhor, they occur on both sides of the ideological divide. Check out the comments on FreeRepublic or LGF if you don’t believe me.
I don’t approve of obscenity, but this war, this “president”, and the illegitimate regime in Washington are all obscenities.
November 20th, 2005 at 10:24 amCathy, You Know It ALL?? BECAREFUL WHAT YOU SAY GIRL!
because I am here to Tell”FREEDOM IS NOT AND HAS NEVER BEEN FREE”!Your Freedom Bubble is about to be POPPED!
You are Christian, You Say?
Then Read this Girl!
16 ¶ And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thGENESIS CHAPTER 3
——————————————————————————–
1 ¶ Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
you shalt surely die.
THE DEVIL LIED TO YOU WOMAN! YOU DO DIE!
November 20th, 2005 at 10:30 amAND NO, FREEDOM IS NOT AND NEVER WAS FREE! YOU HAVE BEEN DECIEVED!
5 U.S. Marines, one U.S. soldier killed in Iraq
November 20th, 2005 at 10:34 am51 Americans have already died this month; Marines continue offensive
it will never stop. As long as this WAR Continues on this Course. More will die! FOR what you ask?
November 20th, 2005 at 10:36 amgreed, corruption, = lies, hate.
“FREEDOM IS NOT FREE”
CATHY, When was the LAST TIME You Participated in a WAR?
November 20th, 2005 at 10:37 amSo, What DO YOU KNOW THAT I DONT KNOW?
I Suggest you Read and Pause before Blabbering off at the Mouth. You MIGHT learn something!
November 20th, 2005 at 10:57 amA PEACEFULL RESOLVE CANNOT BE ACHIEVED WITH PEOPLE THINKING THEY KNOW IT ALL!
PEOPLE CANNOT AND NEVER WILL”KNOW IT ALL”!
WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU WAS IN IRAQ???
November 20th, 2005 at 11:19 amIF YOU AGREE TO WANT THIS WAR,, THEN BY ALL MEANS.
GO,GO,GO.
I AM NOT STOPPING YOU FROM GOING TO JOIN THE MILITARY,
CATHY,IWRONGY,AND ANY ONE ELSE THAT WANT TO DIE FOR THEIR FREEDOMS.
GO ALLREAY AND STOP ARGUING WITH US DEMS!
CHICKENHAWKS!
November 20th, 2005 at 11:19 amDear Mrs. Schmidt, Your remarks on the floor of the House of Representatives concerning Jack Murtha have made me ashamed to be from the same state that you represent. I sincerely hope, with all my heart and soul, that the people who elected you will, in the next election, send you back under the rock from whence you crawled.
November 20th, 2005 at 11:39 amJean Schmidt was only elected in the recent special election in Ohio after a “computer glitch” was called when Paul Hackett (her ex-Marine Dem opponent) pulled ahead in the counting of the race late at night. Some of us out here know what those glitches are about: computer vote fraud. The public, such as election watchers, were locked out of the room for the counting.
November 20th, 2005 at 11:42 amWhat’s up with the AP identifying Danny “Bopp” (actually, Buhp) as a “Marine Colonel” rather than a Republican politician? If they’d done even a lick of research, they’d have figured out that Buhp is a reservist who’s never served in combat, who also has been an active Republican politician serving in elected office in Ohio since 1994. To characterize him as a “Marine Colonel” without anything more is misleading, to put it mildly.
November 20th, 2005 at 11:57 amI served in the US Army’s 82′nd Airborne Division stationed in Ft Bragg. We hated the Marines(not really) and liked to refer to them with such derogatory names such as Jarhead and Squidhumper but never in our wildest dreams(and trust me paratroopers can get pretty wild) would we ever consider calling a decorated Marine combat vet a coward. This “woman”(not sure what to call her without offending someone)Jean Schmidt is a disgrace and I hope Ohio has the decency to recall her. I wonder how many wounded soldiers she has taken the time to visit in the V.A. hospitals, I would be willing to bet she hasn’t the guts to go take a good hard look at the true cost of war, Murtha does.
November 20th, 2005 at 12:03 pmMs. Schmidt should turn her attention to the subject of Congresswomen of Mass Destruction (CMD’s). Of course, if you were to eliminate CMD from Ms. Schmidt’s name, all you would be left with is…..
November 20th, 2005 at 12:34 pmThey used that woman Jean Schmidt because they did not have Corrupt Tom Delay their.
November 20th, 2005 at 12:53 pmWhen I see her picture with her big mouth open, that makes me laugh. I hope when she goes home to Ohio they give her hell. She is totally disgusting. Maybe the state of Ohio will run her out of office.
November 20th, 2005 at 1:51 pmAs if OHIO doesn’t have enough corrupt activity, we now have Rep. Schmidt furthering that cause through her brutal political attacks on highly regarded veteran Representatives such as Congressman Murtha. Go to another state, Schmidt – Ohio does not need you. GO!!!!!
November 20th, 2005 at 2:51 pmIn my above post, I did not give my personal opinion one way or another about the validity of the war. I did not condone or support it. I did not show my preference one way or another to any political candidate or party. I did not say whether Scmidt was wright or wrong. In short, I did not take any position. I simply suggested that folks be carefull in implying what others mean by their words when those words are not extremely specific. You have implied meaning into my thoughts and words and called me names and you have absolutely NO idea what I think or believe about Bush and this war. In that light, I think you would be shocked if you did know and might just hold that bucket of water for someone else. In addition, I simply shared the thoughts and attitudes of my friends in Iraq – their thoughts, not mine. I don’t understand how all of this makes me subject to a bucket of water to get rid of me. Perhaps if some of you could set side your anger and hatred and calm down, you would be able to fully hear and understand the thoughts of others.
A real father, my children are 7 and 11, to young for war. My husband works with the police to solve murders and robberies. He sees the scum of society. My uncle was out on routine manuevers Dec.7, 1945. He had to stand and helplessly watch 20 miles off shore as his buddies got bombed to hell and back. At the end of the attack, he want back to shore, what was left of it, and had to clean up. Don’t think the scene ever left his memory. My father was drafted towards the end of the war. My father in law was in Korea. My other uncle, Nam. My great uncle, WW I, and my cousin played cat and mouse with the Russians on a nuclear sub during the cold war. He still works for the Navy as a civilian. My friends, infantry in Iraq, are watching their buddies get blown to pieces and then have to help clean them up while they wipe the blood off of their own faces. Some of them get promotions because their buddy commanders get blown up. What am I supposed to say? Congratulations on your promotion? Don’t you think I know freedom isn’t free???????????? Don’t even preach to me about that! I have heard enough ugly war stories to last a lifetime. I am not in Iraq, but I have some pretty vivid images in my mind because of the stories I hear. And I can tell you this, if I did not have children, I would put my nursing skills to good use and I’d be on the next flight over there and stay until the last service member comes home!!!!! I would not do it for Bush or Iraq, but for my fellow countrymen who are over there. It would be a wrenching job, but I would do it. But I do have children, and they come first right now, because they are little and I am first and foremost a mother. How can you acuse and trash me when you know absolutely nothing about me, including my political thoughts? Your anger and hatred has gotten the best of you.
And when I said war is a fact of life, that was not by any means a casual statement implying war should be/is to be accepted as a normal way of life. What I meant is that war has always been, and always will be because of greed, power, the need to dominate and the inability of people to let others live and let live in peace and in their own right. And if you are going to trash women, then I have to ask: what sex has ALWAYS declaired war, had the urge to dominate, conquer and control to the point that war existed? Clean up you own back yard before you complain about someone elses.
On the subject of New O. Some have moved to my city. They found jobs. Schools, public and private, welcomed their children, free of charge. These people came here with the shirts on their backs and are now getting back on their feet through sheer determination and courage. For those who are still in hotels complaining about how bad it is for their health to be there because all they do is eat and sleep….GET A &$%#* JOB!!! I don’t care if it pays $5 an hour. It is a start to getting them where they want to go. Take your life into your own hands and get yourself where you want to be by the sweat of your own brow. “Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.” Wasn’t it a Democrat who said that? We are where we are today because people got off their butts and did what it took to create an new life. The immigrants in the 1800s came here with no more than the poor of New Orleans have, even less – no place to sleep, no govt handouts, no relatives, no nothing. But they made a good life for themselves through determination and sweat. I know this because 3 of my great grandparents came here with nothing – some only had the clothes on their backs and a sibling – they weren’t even 18. This isn’t a sob story – it shows where there is a will, there is a way. And by the way, didn’t I hear that some areas of La. are the poorest in the country? And did I understand correctly that Democrats have been in control there for some 50 years?
I suspect some of you will still throw water at me simply because I am not obviously trashing those you trash, and I am not ranting and raving as well. Do as you wish, I don’t melt. My skin is pretty thick.
November 20th, 2005 at 3:03 pmSchmidt has a brother who did not serve, nor did her father. He was busy playing with Indy cars in the 70`s-80`s. As a Republican, and someone who thinks we should have a plan to start withdrawl, but not “cut and run”, I am embarrassed by her comments. It is a slap in the face to all who are and have served.
November 20th, 2005 at 3:05 pmSorry, that was Dec 7 1941. Dad was drafted in ‘45.
November 20th, 2005 at 3:14 pm[...] Appearing on CNN, Donald Rumsfeld defended Rep. Jean Schmidt’s personal attack on Rep. Jack Murtha from the House floor: BLITZER: Well, the — one of the Republican Congresswomen, Jean Schmidt of Ohio, basically called him [Murtha] a coward. [...]
November 20th, 2005 at 3:53 pmWow, what a reocrd of accopmplishment from this bitch.
Let’s see, we have a VETERAN of two wars, and THIRTY years involved in politics, stacked up against this chickenhawk bitch’s “record”…….
A lifelong resident of Clermont County, Jean Schmidt is the first woman ever elected to represent Southern Ohio in Congress. The diverse Second Congressional District, which includes seven counties, stretches from downtown Cincinnati to the riverside town of Portsmouth in Scioto County.
Throughout her career, Congresswoman Schmidt has held various roles in public office and been actively involved in civic and community groups. She served for two terms in the Ohio statehouse and according to the Cincinnati Enquirer she “…proved effective in passing legislation to address her district’s concerns.†While serving in the state legislature, Schmidt enacted legislation to create jobs, protect Ohio’s children and ensure access to quality healthcare.
Prior to Jean’s election to Ohio’s statehouse, she served 10 years as a Miami Township trustee. In this leadership role, she helped Miami Township to become a world-class community by initiating a variety of projects and improvements, including creating a 300 acre first class park system, securing funds for critical road repairs, and attracting 2000 high paying jobs for the Township. She also established a 5K Run and located a branch of the Clermont County Library in Miami Township.
Congresswoman Schmidt resides in Miami Township with her husband Peter and their daughter Emilie. She holds a degree in Political Science from the University of Cincinnati and her other interests include auto racing and long distance running. She has completed 56 marathons and still counting.
http://www.house.gov/schmidt/about/index.shtml
November 20th, 2005 at 3:54 pmHas anyone checked out Ms. Schmidt’s website: jeanschmidt.com If you do, please look at the top picture, cover up everything below the neck, and tell me if that is not a balding man with lipstick and earrings? Could there be something strange in Jean’s (Gene’s) closet?
November 20th, 2005 at 4:10 pmRelax. That speech has guaranteed her defeat in the next election. By the time she runs again she will have that thing hung around her neck in a district that has already proven to be willing to vote against traditional voting patterns. She is toast and will be returned to whatever slimy rock she slithered out from under. Actually people like her making comments like that are great for the Democrats, her little hissy fit is worth alot of money during fundraising.
November 20th, 2005 at 4:20 pmI would love to see Jean Schmidt Interviewed!
November 20th, 2005 at 4:52 pmit would be great to watch her SQUIRM!
wouldnt you think?
This is what this country has come to–the doorstop of pigs like Schmidt. I’d like to see her scrawny ass fighting over in Iraq, then we’d find out who’s a “coward.” It’s always so easy for these types to sit back and say things while others die. Disgraceful. She should be publicly shamed.
AT
November 20th, 2005 at 5:19 pmThis is the transcript from Ms. Schmidt’s speech:
The Speaker Pro Tempore: The gentlelady from Ohio is recognized for one
minute.
Ms. Schmidt: Yesterday I stood at Arlington National Cemetery attending the
funeral of a young marine in my district. He believed in what we were doing
is the right thing and had the courage to lay his life on the line to do it.
A few minutes ago I received a call from Colonel Danny Bubp, Ohio
Representative from the 88th district in the House of Representatives. He
asked me to send Congress a message: Stay the course. He also asked me to
send Congressman Murtha a message, that cowards cut and run, Marines never
do. Danny and the rest of America and the world want the assurance from this
body – that we will see this through.
There is plenty to disgust one here. For instance, that Ms. Schmidt is so informed that she knows what ALL of America and ALL of the world wants. Jeez, I’m one tiny part of “the rest of America”, and I don’t want what Ms. Schmidt states.
The most irreconcilable part of this transcript, however, is that The Speaker Pro Tempore referred to Ms. Schmidt as a “gentlelady”!
November 20th, 2005 at 5:26 pmWhere was she and her husband during Vietnam? They appear to be about the right draft age or did they run like cowards? She should go back to running cross country instead of for office.
November 20th, 2005 at 5:33 pmOhio’s district Two elected “a hatchet” over a Hackett. Or more concisely, they elected a battle-ax.
November 20th, 2005 at 5:51 pmNot only has Schmidt denigrated a decorated veteran of two world wars, but she has demeaned all women by shooting off her mouth in a most intemperate manner without thinking and without knowing the facts. Clearly she had no idea of John Murtha’s background–which didn’t stop her from assailing someone who has served his country more and better than she could ever hope to do. Where are her purple hearts?! In which wars did she fight? To which military units did she belong?
If women are to have positions of political leadership on par with men, then they have to show that they can be competent, fair-minded, and effective leaders deserving of the people’s high trust, and not empty-headed political hacks worthy only of our scorn.
November 20th, 2005 at 6:08 pmSweetie- I don’t think anyone should be surprised that a computer glitch, or a man-made computer glitch would be the cause of having that psycho gain advantage over
a more qualified candidate. Do you think that the glitch might have been man-made? I sincerely look forward to your response.
Cathy, if your father joined the military on December 7th, 1945, World War II would have been over by four
November 20th, 2005 at 6:30 pmmonths. If this is an attempt to confuse us on this blog, keep trying. It ain’t working.
Carol Doerflein,
Thank you for your thoughtful and reasoned comments. Although I have made some (possibly) humorous comments concerning Ms. Schmidt, I too am appalled by this person’s speech on the floor of the House of Representives. Thank you for taking the time to comment, and for providing us thoughts worthy of relection.
November 20th, 2005 at 6:37 pmAlso, thank you, Cathy, for taking the time to share your thoughts. Public discourse is always of value, and I honor you for sharing your insight and comments.
November 20th, 2005 at 6:40 pmWhy are people attacking Jean Schmidt when Colonel Danny Bubp asked Jean to send Congress a message. Some Commentors are attacking the wrong person for what was said. The reason some people are not going after Colonel Danny Bubp is cause you dont have the balls. Instead you attack the messenger as opposed to the message. The Military is all VOLUNTEERS. If a person does not wish to be in this war against terrorism they didn’t NOT have to sign enlistment papers.
November 20th, 2005 at 6:45 pmDear Kristin,
A remedial course in English is recommended. Just because our Commender-in-Chief is not fluent in English does not mean that you are excused from using proper English. A double negative is NOT acceptable English, unless you mean to express something in the positive.
November 20th, 2005 at 6:55 pmdid not**. Whoops, bad editing / proof reading.
November 20th, 2005 at 6:56 pmMy understanding is Danny Bubp was not a colonel. Can anyone help me out here. Thanks.
November 20th, 2005 at 7:08 pmDear Kristin,
If “Colonel” Bubp has balls, why did he have to have Ms. Schmidt deliver his message? Is it because if he did, the American people would realize that he is simply a low-ranking politician rather than a front-line combatant?
November 20th, 2005 at 7:08 pmThe nerve of Mean Jean….
November 20th, 2005 at 7:08 pmthe only patriotic thing about her was her sweater!!!
Okay then, Who cares who delievered it, what about the message?
November 20th, 2005 at 7:15 pm#375 – “Where were YOUR KIDS? Where is Your Husband?
November 20th, 2005 at 7:43 pmSHUTUP WITCH!
Comment by A REAL FATHER!”
*****Dear DAD – for someone with proud military service you sure do whine alot. You sound like the kind of guy every body in the platoon hates.
Dear Kristin,
His message? Which one: that “cowards cut and run. Marines never do.”? Or, that “Republican lawmakers never cut and run. They simply run (from military service)”.?
November 20th, 2005 at 8:15 pmI think the majority of the 417 comments I have just read confirm quite clearly that Democrats today, on the whole, are foul-mouthed,rude, crude and choleric. They have called Jean Schmidt things that no decent person would, but then they don’t know any better. By the way I have served in the military as an infantryman, seen my buddies killed, won a silver star and a purple heart. I applaud Jean Schmidt, and agree with her except for calling Mudrtha a coward. He’s not —he’s merely on the edge of semility. Happens even to 30-year marines, poor guy.
November 20th, 2005 at 8:54 pmJimbo, once again, please take time to calmly listen and read. I realized my mistake and wrote “Sorry, that was Dec 7 1941. Dad was drafted in ‘45″ What that means is that the bombing of Pearl Harbor was December 7, 1941, not December 7, 1945 and that dad was drafted in 1945. When I wrote 1945, I was thinking ahead of my typing and I was recalling the year dad was drafted and typed that year instead of the correct year of the bombing. The war ended in 1945, I believe it was in August, when Japan surrendered, and then they officially surrendered on paper in September. Where did I say that dad was drafted December 7, 1945? Sheesh!!!! I did not think that I would have to go into this deep of an explaination of my correction of dates for a bunch of adults!
Jimbo, you just confirmed my point that all of you need to slow down, contain your anger, open your mind up and accurately read and understand what has been written and spoken.
While I am here, Kristin has a point – Jean delivered a message. It was not her own. And why did Bubp have her deliver his message? Did you ever think that maybe it was not because he didn’t have the guts, but maybe, just maybe something precluded him from attending the session? Of course you did not think that. Perhaps that is your problem – you are not thinking, you are just reacting.
You know, I have absolutely no problem having an intelligent discussion or debate with people who have a different view point from mine. Bring it on. We can all learn something from a different point of view if we are willing to. But I am only finding a few here who who seem to be able to have a dignified, intelligent conversation. You will not win people to your side with this kind of agression and hostility.
November 20th, 2005 at 9:18 pmDear John Plumb,
You agree with Jean Schmidt? Are you as arrogant and brain dead as her, to assume that you speak for all “the rest of America and the world”? Do you read newspapers, read polls, or talk with people with opinions other than your own? If you did, you would realize that you and Jean Schmidt are out of touch with most Americans. Wake up, John Plumb! You, Jean Schmidt, and the Replubican party are out of step with America.
November 20th, 2005 at 9:25 pm#418 Who cares what you think dick breath. You are for continuing an illegal war, killing, torture, rape, thievery of others resources,etc.,etc.
November 20th, 2005 at 9:32 pmOne thing I have learned about the repugnants is that most of them have the brains of a house fly .
Take your little medals and stuff them turd burglar. By the way the word is senility, dope.
Just another fake post by a fake servivceman.
Schmidt is a SLIT.HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
PS Jimbo, perhaps you are the one trying to confuse everyone. I was correcting my mistake so that there would be no confusion or accusations as such. Read carefully.
November 20th, 2005 at 9:49 pmJust as all mafia and street gangs demand newly made members to perform some sort of mayhem to be accepted, the goons on the right sent this poor fool out to do their dirty work. She will sliver back under her own cover,because her pals won’t give her any, now that she’s been spent. What a poor, poor fool she is, and commisar karl will not recognize her ever again.
November 20th, 2005 at 11:00 pmCathy, For your Intellic Info, China has a Population of over 1.3 Billion People. China Disagreed with the War that Bush started.
November 20th, 2005 at 11:09 pmIf you remember so well, then remember 911 the days after, when Bush declared War on the Entire Nation of Afganistan. the Carpet Bombings, Bunker Busters, How many Innocent Lives were Lost, Just at that moment. Now ,How in the World did Bush go from Afganistan to Iraq with his so-called war on terror? it never was a war on terror, it was Bushs war For freedom. and he is still trying to push it. this is why he is in China, well, China Knows better. once you set them free , you can never take it away.
Cathy, God and Freedom Have nothing in Common. Have you ever read the Bible? Isrealites were merely led out of Bondage and Slavery, America is back in that same situation where the poor get poorer while the rich get richer. Do you defend the Rich , Free , and abundant Wealth? history is repeating itself, but, unlike Eygpt/Isreal, The whole America is going to be destroyed by a Mighty Earthquake.
Unless we give up our freedoms.
you do know the world population is around 6.6 Billion people, Chinas population is 1.3 BILLION People, India 1 Billion, and America?LESS than 300 Million, and how many of that is in prison, on drugs, not capable of defending freedom, there is a whole lot more to it than you realize. May I suggest you take a deep hard look at hoy many americans are killed here in america? Your Policeman should be able to help you with this.
You cannot win a war against China.
November 20th, 2005 at 11:23 pmHey REAL FATHER learn how to spell Israel if you are going to use it in your lame and contrived argument. Go back to watching movies made for TV.
Cathy and John Plumb thanks for being rational.
November 20th, 2005 at 11:46 pmAm I missing something here? What does the population of China have to do with anything I said about why my children, myself and my husband are not in Iraq? Or about my friends that are there? Or about jimbo’s confusion about me correcting dates. Or anything else that I said? I never said a word about China or any of the things you just wrote about. Get some rest and clear your head.
November 20th, 2005 at 11:49 pmHistory is not just you and your family, you havent a clue to the fact that if america and china gets into a war that america would lose?
November 21st, 2005 at 12:17 amyou might be the one that will need the rest.
China is against Bush also.
China knows freedom is not free.
Bush dos not know that yet.
Mighty Mouth,
If you never served in the military, why badmouth a REAL MILITARY MAN like A REAL FATHER? Are you that jealous?
Cathy,
We are not politically correct in this blog. Nor do we tend to be. We are providing a voice against a system that bullies us and says that we’re supposed to take what they give us, like it or not. We are the American people. WE pay our tax monies to these politicians to do their jobs. We tell them what we want and they are supposed to deliver on those wants.
Wants such as…
A BETTER POLITICAL SYSTEM
A STABLE FINANCIAL SYSTEM
A SECURE PROTECTIVE SYSTEM AGAINST TERRORISM
A MILITARY THAT PROTECTS NOT JUST OUTSIDE, BUT INSIDE THE U.S.
Since Dubya took office, they have all gone to hell in a hen basket. Republicans became verbal and physical bullies even insulting those who suffered under 9/11 and this joke of a war which is really about oil.
As Gil Scott Heron said, “The Revolution Will Not Be Televised.” While the news media continues to buttkiss up to the Dubya Mafia, more people are dying in Iraq, U.S. and across the globe as a result of
callous acts under the Dubya Mafia. We have been kicked the the teeth long enough. 2006 will be the year that we start kicking back.
And Cathy, if you can’t accept the way this blog will be, please leave and take the trolls like NED and Mighty
Moron with you.
This has been a live voice.
November 21st, 2005 at 3:39 amA beheading video with her on it would rock the Casbah
November 21st, 2005 at 5:54 amWow! What a nasty, miserable bitch! I hope she’s not married. Her husband needs to wear a a metal cup to bed!
Murtha is one of the few that can stand up and say “enough!” That is a true hero and a brave man. We need more Democrats and Republicans that will stand up to the administration. This is not a dictatorship,
November 21st, 2005 at 9:33 amalthough Bush would like that!
Jimbo, if people on this site want to be nasty and vulgar, that is up to all of you. I hate political correctness BTW. But I do have a problem with you twisting words and facts – example – trying to tell me that I suggested my dad was drafted Dec. 7, 1945 and accusing me of trying to confuse everyone. Example – slamming Schmidt for repeating someone elses words then acting as though they were her thoughts. In order to have even a basic conversation, vulgar or not, you have to get the basic facts straight – ALL OF THEM. Jimbo, I see you are more than willing to trash people, but I haven’t seen that you are man enough to admit that you read in error and therefore made an unfounded accusation. I am sorry is probably not even in your dictionary. But, from what I have seen, I would not expect that from you.
And don’t worry, I won’t be around long. I will go find some Democrats who can have a debate on an intellectual level. I only have to look to my neighbors.
A real father, I still don’t see the connection between China and what I have said.
See what I mean?? He is replying to me on an unrelated topic from mine.
I DON”T CARE HOW YOU WANT TO BE, JUST GET THE FACTS STRAIGHT!!!!!!!!! Well, I do care, but be as you wish. It is your right.
November 21st, 2005 at 9:35 amI was looking for a transcript of Scmidt’s remarks, which…by the way, were not “her” remarks, but that she was reading a message from yet another Marine [I believe] Veteran. Rep. Duncan Hunter, also a Vietnam Veteran, who I’ve heard initiated this vote was ALSO shouted down as he held a fistfull of e-mails from Troops currently stationed in Iraq.
I dare say that I don’t quite suss all the angst and hyperbole by the majoritiy of posters here…after all, the ‘news’ has repeated endless quotes of “significant” democrats on a daily basis for several years now, calling Bush & Co. every name in the book, including “coward”….which, of course, proves NOTHING….name calling never did. But, when the koolaid drinkers with the “pull out now” bumper stickers actually GET their day of glory…the whole charade implodes instantly….???
~~~~~~~
You would be better served to support HR 4259, “The Veterans Right to Know Act”.
If you disagree, please…by all means…come to ProjectSHAD.us and inform us as to precisely what you “think” is the correct manner in which to “treat Veterans”….
Barring that, perhaps you could push for a follow-up vote to change the flag to a more progressive white field with a broad yellow stripe down the back and a dainty pink lace fringe.
J.B. Stone, USN, ETN-2, Project SHAD, 1969, USS Granville S. Hall, YAG-40
PS: If you still prefer Kool Aid, then by all means visit www1.va.gov/SHAD to participate in the cover up.
November 21st, 2005 at 9:59 amNONE of you “progressives” happen to note THESE remarks…
Rep. Sam Johnson of Texas who was a war prisoner in Vietnam for seven years, three of them in solitary confinement:
“When I was a p.o.w. I was scared to death when our Congress talked about pulling the plug that I would be left there forever,” Johnson said. Soldiers “need to have full faith that a few naysayers in Washington won’t cut and run and leave them high and dry.”
But, then…..the MORALE of the Troops waging War on YOUR behalf are not of concern here….
http://www.samjohnson.house.gov/Biography/
Oh, yeah….while your AT it with all the wailing and gnashing of teeth….could someone HERE please explain to me how it came to be that the discharge status of Saint John Kerry came to be “upgraded” to honorable by a “special commission”, brought about by personal intervention by then President Jimmah “habitat” Cahtah, a full SIX YEARS after his original enlistment expired…and then his so-called “medals of honor” came to be RE-instated soon after he was elected to the Senate…???
[hint: the answers are in those remaining 100+ pages of military records which remain UN-disclosed]
By the way…did I tell you, he’s a Vietnam War Hero…!!!
November 21st, 2005 at 10:52 amCathy, Your topic is about YOU. This Blog has Multi purposes. talking about your Family History has nothing to do with World History.
November 21st, 2005 at 10:58 amI cannot relate to your Topic because it has no revealance to me of current world History.
#433″See what I mean?? He is replying to me on an unrelated topic from mine.”
This B*tch is finished in Ohio!
November 21st, 2005 at 11:13 amLooked up Bubp’s record.
The most combat he has ever seen was in Tampa!
http://www.geocities.com/danin04/bio
November 21st, 2005 at 11:36 amI just had a thought as I was doing other work. What would happen if a boxing legend was in fight and quit in the middle of the fight? What if you were in a fight, verbal or physical and quit in the middle. What happens when ANYONE quits in the middle of ANY fight? They get laughed at, made fun of, get called coward, softie, wimp, no guts no glory and on and on and on. If we pull out now, we will be quitters and the rest of the world will know that if they bash the USA enough, they can get us to quit. And don’t you think the terrorists aren’t watching and reading like a bunch of hawks what we all have to say?
“Hahahaha!!!!! Look how we have caused the US to become unglued and fractured! HAHAHAHA!! If we hang in there long enough they will give up and we can do as we want HAHAHA!! What weenies! HAHAHA!! We might wear dresses and hide among the goats and behind women and children, and we may not have the guts to fight man to man so we set off remote controlled bombs, but who cares??? The US can’t keep it together!! Hahahahahahhh!! If they can just keep the war of words going alittle longer, maybe they will go a way!!! Getting them to fight among themselves is a feather in our turbans!! We didn’t expect the people on US soil to help us like this!!!!!!!!!!Hahahahahahah!!”
Before you trash me – remember, my friends are in Iraq and I understand what it is like. I know what they think because they tell me. I know they don’t speak for everyone there. But, they want to finish what they started. They don’t want to be quitters. They have too much pride and determination to quit. Quit is not in their vocabulary. In addition, they are making a difference and they see it because they are there. Don’t believe me? Go find some soldier and Marine blogs – and not the Michael Moore types. Go outside your comfort zone and get the other side of the story. Expand your knowledge and when you have facts, first hand from both sides where the boots meet the sand, then make your decision. The only people who should have any say as to when we are ready to come home is the commanders in the field. Whether you support the rational for the war or not, have enough respect for them to get the hell out of their way. Shut your mouths and let them determine what they need to do. They are there and they see it first hand.
Now before you go off half cocked, I did not give my opinion or consent for the war. I relayed thoughts and wishes from some of the troops. You have no idea, absolutely NO IDEA how all of this bickering is tearing at their morale. Not only do they have a gun battle to fight, but they feel they have to stand up for themselves on the homefront and convince all of you to support them as well and it is killing them. ‘Come home now’ is not support to them. It is a call to shame. They see it as betrayal. You all are pushing for another VietNam. Do you really want that? Of course not all feel this way, but a vast many do. These men desperately need your support..they need you to say…
“DO what you have to do and we will keep the homefires burning for you. You are in our hearts, thoughts and prayers. And when you come home, THEN we will argue about the war, whether it was right or wrong, and what we should do in the future. What matters is that you are there now – do your job. Finish what you started. Until you come home, I will send you care packages – with M&Ms (they won’t melt now that summer is over), canned air to clean your weapons, soap and shampoo for your occasional shower, baby wipes for in between (non scented of course!), a few DVD’s to take you away for a couple of hours, and some munchies. It is getting cold, need any under armour wear? Oh, and I’ll send a bottle of Fabreez and some air freshner – I can only image how smelly your hooch must get when you all take off your boots!! Be carefull and be safe guys… we got your six. WE LOVE YOU.”
This is what they want to hear right now.
BTW, if you want to see a letter from a soldier who desperately wants your support, I would be glad to get it and post it here for you. After all, he does want everyone to see it.
But, I don’t expect most of you to get this.
A real dad…I am being most sincere when I say thank you for your service. We have vastly different opinions in many areas, and we have vastly different ways that we express it. None the less, thank you. For your service in our military, you have my respect.
November 21st, 2005 at 11:39 amBTW, a real father, you brought the subject up. I brought up my family history because you asked where my husband and children were and I wanted you to know that, even though “we” are not in Iraq, my family has served and fought for our country for almost 100 years, so my family and I are no strangers to service and sacrifice. Had you not brought the subject up, I would not have mentioned it.
In addition, most of my concern here has been for our troops, who are a part of current world events. My other concern here is for an rational understanding of certain, simple facts, some printed in black and white. Other points were a response to other posts.
November 21st, 2005 at 11:52 amFirst, Rep. Schmidt did NOT call Mr. Murtha (or anyone else, for that matter) a coward – she was quoting Colonel Bubp. HE said that “Cowards cut and run”.
Second, Colonel Bubp did NOT call Mr. Murtha (specifically) a coward.
Rep. Schmidt conveyed the BROAD, SWEEPING, GENERALIZED statement of Colonel Bubp, that ANYONE who “cuts and runs” is (CORRECTLY) referred to as a COWARD. Hey, Mr. Murtha, if the shoe fits…
Third, the House of Representatives is SUPPOSED to be “the People’s House”, is it not? Therefore Rep. Schmidt was 100% CORRECT to bring the WORDS of WE, THE PEOPLE to the attention of the narrow minded members of the House of Representatives…
Have YOU ever tried to contact a member of congress? No, not YOUR representative, but, say Mr. Murtha or Ms. Schmidt?
MOST of them have websites which RESTRICT the sender of the comments to those in THEIR districts… How F’ING arrogant… They stand there, in Congress, knowing that they are on NATIONAL TELEVISION/RADIO, and say anything they damn well please, THEY expect to be sheltered from criticism (from either those with opposing views just across the aisle OR from WE, THE PEOPLE)? What F’ING hypocrites!
They assert that they are “our” representatives, but they REALLY want to be able to say ANYTHING with impunity (they don’t want to hear from us, unless we’ve got a check in our hands for THEIR campaigns).
Well, I, for one, LOVE the Republicans forcing the Democrats (especially Mr. Murtha himself) to put their money where their mouths are (for a change)…
I also LOVE hearing the Democrats acting like spoiled brat CHILDREN when forced to VOTE on the very subject that they’ve been spouting for weeks, months, and yes, YEARS…
BUT, I’ve got to give a BIG congratulations to the THREE (count ‘em THREE) Democrats who had the courage of their convictions to actually vote YES [to pull the troops out NOW]).
At least we NOW KNOW where the REST of the Democrats, including Mr. Murtha, and San-Fran-Nan (Pelosi), stand on the issue, don’t we!? Or DO WE?
BEFORE, they were bloviating that we need a “time table” for the withdrawal of troops (like we have one for getting our troops out of Japan or Germany [after World War II], or from Korea, or Vietnam, or Bosnia – We’ve STILL got troops THERE). In the imortal words of Charles Laughton (in Witness for the Prosecution), “Were you lying then, or are you lying now, or are you not, in fact, a chronic and habitual LIAR!?”
Oh, and before you mantra chanting NEO-PROGs attempt the “Bush Lied” crap – NO, he didn’t LIE… Granted, the intellegence was far from stellar (crap, if you ask me) – the FACT is, that President Bush believed it, the ENTIRE United Nations Security Council believed it, and the Brits STILL believe it… Stating what you BELIEVE TO BE TRUE (even if it turns out, later, to NOT be true, is NOT a LIE).
A LIE, would be like the highly respected President Clinton, when he LIED to that Federal Judge (when he KNEW what he was saying was FALSE, but he said it anyway – under oath). THAT is LYING.
And, YES, THAT, too, is what Scooter Libby did (that moron)… Now that we KNOW that Valerie Plame was NOT “covert” (that means, NO CRIME in releasing her name [even whomever told Bob Woodward a MONTH before Novak published his column] did NOTHING ILLEGAL)… Sorry – that’s the FACT.
But, hey, I’m sure this will be MIS-CHARACTERIZED for WEEKS in the “main stream media”… Got to love it!
November 21st, 2005 at 12:04 pmOh, one more thing…
This is NOT about Mr. Murtha’s service. He was, indeed, a highly honored member the Marine Corps.
NO ONE is questioning his service.
This is ALSO NOT about Vietnam!
Quite frankyly (and not to minimize the service of ANYONE who served in Vietnam, or ANY conflict, at ANY time, ANYWHERE in the world) – WHO GIVES a RAT’S REAR END about Mr. Murtha’s service in Vietnam?
The issue at hand is the war in Iraq, and what should be done about it…
Now, I’m not stupid enough to believe that 100% of the men and women serving WANT to be there (hell, I doubt if ANY of them WANT to be there), but everything I’ve read and heard leads ME to believe that the VAST MAJORITY of those serving are PROUD AS HELL to be doing what there’re doing.
I would REALLY love to get a poll of those service men and women IN IRAQ to cast THEIR vote on whether THEY argee with Mr. Murtha or not…
Just guessing, but I bet it would be REALLY close to the way it went down in the House (flaming defeat).
I know there are NO words to properly articulate the deep appreciation MOST Americans have for the men and women who serve in our Armed Forces (current and past) AND for their families (whose sacrifice and struggle does not go un-noticed or unappreciated).
SOME of us, don’t just do so on Veterans’ Day, or Memorial Day…
Please accept my most sincere and heart-felt thanks!
For those serving in harms way – STAY SAFE and kick ass!
November 21st, 2005 at 12:24 pmI watched the debate in congress and she did call John Murtha a coward. You did not listen to what she said? You can spin this anyway you want but the facts are the facts.
Bushie did lie to the American people about going to war. This was decided long before he got in office. He went into Iraq for OIL and to make his buddies RIcher.
November 21st, 2005 at 12:32 pmI thought I was the only one who hates Republicans, but I see I have many friends. Not all Republicans are lousy, just the ones who voted for Bush. The enemy in Iraq are called insurgents, in America, we were called Freedom Fighters. We did the same thing that the insurgents are doing, we shot the British one at a time. This war is stupid, the White House is stupid, Cheney, Rumsfeld and not to mention our illegal President are all stupid. We are in deep doo doo and I am afraid we will start shooting Democrats against Republicans, much like the civil war, south against the north.
November 21st, 2005 at 1:05 pmComment by Steven Jonas, MD, MPH, Contributing Author for the webmagazine The Political Junkies.net.
November 21st, 2005 at 1:20 pm“The strong make the tough decisions; the weak ’stay the course’.”
A REAL FATHER-
(Yawn) Did you manage to get past Cathy’s rants without falling asleep or laughing? I stopped at the part of sleeping. :)
I enjoyed your #436 response to her. She must be new.
November 21st, 2005 at 1:32 pmToo many trolls in the neighborhood.
Remember the cut and run democrats lost the Vietnam war and are attempting to do the same here. I would like to hear comments from service men who served with Murtha during the period he became a war hero. I’ll bet we will find credentials to senate hero, cut and run Kerry.
November 21st, 2005 at 2:15 pmI just saw the footage of Jean Schmidt this morning on TV and was appalled.
November 21st, 2005 at 2:28 pmWhat I saw this morning was a fear-based attack against Senator Murtha for speaking his mind.
Too long have we wallowed in a place where people are afraid to speak out against the policies of the Bush Administration for fear that they would be perceived as being unpatriotic and cowardly.
This country is turning into a very scary place to live and have an opinion. I don’t necessarily think that leaving IRAQ in six months is a good idea. But, Senator Murtha has the right to think whatever he wants and he has the right to put his voice to it as well.
Hopefully, Jean Schmidt will not be re-elected after her very unflattering tirade against Senator Murtha. What a mean-spirited thing to say. Personally, I think that, given the environment right now, the bravest thing Senator Murtha could’ve done was to say just what the thinks.
I really hope that more people start to speak their minds as well. Hopefully, with some sane discussion about the situation in Iraq, some real progress can be made.
Senator Schmidt just made herself look like a real ass!
Greg Why are you questioning John Murtha service record? I would like to know if you are or was in the military? If not why don’t you go and sign up if you like this war so much. Most of Bushie admin has not been in the service.
November 21st, 2005 at 2:31 pmI was very pleased with the statement she made..I was even more pleased with the vote. What was it something like 403 to 3? With 6 not voting?
The cowards are the ones who spew out all the anti-war nonsense and can’t back up their commentaries with a vote.
so if their vote does not support their stance then their stance is pure partisan BS!! and maybe should give one pause on their motives.
Stay low people, avoid the black helicoptors and get in line for the Kool Aid..
November 21st, 2005 at 2:39 pmPlease, please, please, please remember that not everyone in Ohio voted for this woman or the president. There are plenty of us angry, pissed off Ohioans who feel like their state has been hijacked.
November 21st, 2005 at 2:42 pmIt’s time to put people like congresswomen Schmidt on the Axis of Evil. Mr. Murtha is probably one of the best representatives we have in the world of American courage, patriotism and service. He is indeed a pinnacle of what’s right with America. And his wisdom, loyalty and selfless sacrifice to this country, are in NO way diminished by the seditious rantings of this souless servant of evil.
The worst part is, the republicans and many democrats are ignoring the GENUIS of Mr. Murtha’s plan. He is NOT saying to withdraw completely. He is talking about REDEPLOYMENT to the outskirts of Iraq, out towards the Caspian sea where we mounted Deseret Storm.
The plan is to redeploy, and use quick response strike teams to assit the Iraqi army if there are uprisings or issues they can’t deal with. In other words, leave the house but be a phone call away. That way we would not be abandoning the Iraqi people, but we would be out of sight, and out of reach of the IED’s. Our soldiers would no longer be in danger, and we would not be losing an average of 4 a day. The Iraqi people would be forced to stand up (necessity is the mother of invention) and yet in an emergency, we could swoop in and still save the day.
No this plan is simple brilliance, and with all the hype by peices of schmidt like ms. schmidt, we never focused on the actual plan by this Mr. Murtha.
Obviously the republicans liked the plan so much that they had to distract us from it. God forbid they allow a democrat, particularly a war hero democrat out think them on the Iraq war. After all, the republicans obviously know so much more about war. So much in fact, that most of them have been able to avoid it their entire lives.
worfeus
November 21st, 2005 at 2:49 pmFor your information the amendment the House voted on was not the Murtha it was the Hunter amendment. This woman was totally disgraceful. All you can see was her big mouth open which made me laugh. She looked like a witch. She will be out of office next year. The people of Ohio will not stand for this crap.
November 21st, 2005 at 2:55 pmWORGEUS– what Murtha planned and what you support is basically a..hmmm…..how do I say this…cutting and running!
I guess the people who would know, think that we should still have boots on the ground until Iraq can use their own boots.
Leaving on your timetable is not as good as leaving on the timetable of our commanders in the field.
Murtha served in the marines? So what! That doesn’t make you a military expert.
I also find it humorous (being a fromer soldier and a republican) your comments on republicans attempting to avoid war.
November 21st, 2005 at 3:03 pmDidn’t your beloved clinton dodge the draft.. you guys thought he was great!!
Now go back to the kool aid and let the adults run the country.
Does anyone listen to Tammy Bruce? I am a Republican, she is a Democrat, (what the Democratic party actually started out as) and I agree with most of what she says. I haven’t heard her comments though on the statement made by Jean Schmidt. Although I do not think Schmidt actually called Murtha “a coward”, (she was only relaying a message), she needs to be wiser on who she allows to speak thru her mouth. Someone else’s comment has come to haunt her as her own opinion.
November 21st, 2005 at 3:13 pmWow can’t believe how lame some of the arguements defending Rep Schmidt are, “she was just relaying a message”. So all I have to do to be heard is type up a note to my congressman and they will automatically read it on the house floor? Rarely have I seen both logical and ethical gymnastics on the same floor at the same time. She freely chose to say what she did on the floor of the house and there was nobody forcing her to say anything against her will. My guess is she thought it would improve her standing within the Republican party bosses. There is no excuse for what she said on the floor of the house and now she is going to be paying the price of her miscalculation with her career. But then that is the problem you run into when you become a sycophant or just another puppet for the someone else.
November 21st, 2005 at 3:23 pmTo FrighteningFred. The only thing frightening about you Fred is your ablity to decieve yourself.
It’s the boots on the ground genius, that is causing the problem. If you know so much about war, then obviously you are aware that history has shown us time and time again that you can’t beat an insurgent rebellion with an occupying force, unless you are willing to KILL EVERYONE. Each person you kill in Iraq, breeds dozens more. But I am beating a dead horse here. You and soldier of fortune reading masses like you will never get it.
I don’t know your MOS, and I don’t know how much service you have put in, but if you don’t think that 37 years, almost 4 decades of military experience, much of it in combat in Vietnam, 3 purple hearts, a bronze star, and years of tactical leadership in Military intelligence doesn’t make one a Military expert, then you are just another hopeless case. So full of righteous indignation, so believing that we are freeing the Iraqi people, so convinced that inside every Iraqi is “an American trying to get out”, that you will never get it.
As soon as Americans decided to bring blood and horror to the people of Iraq, with no justification other than the cowardly fear that “someday” they may attack us, we joinded the ranks of twisted and wicked.
In America, you can’t walk up to someone on the street and hit them, because you think that someday they might hit you. You will go to prison. Period. What makes you think that your life is so precious, that you can go kill Iraqi’s because some day they may hurt us?
Boots on the ground sounds cool. In fact all that lingo sounds cool, and we love throwing it around. Because the real words, like murder, and torture, and spreading pain and evil, hurt too much. Call it what you want. But it’s not democracy that we are spreading over there, although we are spreading something.
You know what a coward is? Anyone can shoot a gun. But cowards start wars with tiny nations, like Iraq, and then call the poor, indigent people of Iraq cowards, as they stand up against our tanks and smart bombs, and bullet proof vests, and armour and air support, with their rags on their backs, sandals on their feet and Viet Nam era weapons. Oh yea, we are all so tough and cool, and they are animals. Mow em down, while we the righteous role our tanks right into heaven.
Redneck peabrains who are so afraid of dying that they would wreak genocide on a small defenseless nation to show their courage and protect us from events that have never occured.
And it’s worfeus genius, not worgeus.
November 21st, 2005 at 3:27 pmOld Bushie was AWOL from the National Gurard. Murtha was a colonel in two wars.
Cheney is no expert because he was a draft dodger. There is alot of Republican that did not serve in the military. The only reason we went into Iraq was OIL and to make Bushie buddies Richer.
Dawn You need to listen to her tape because she did call Rep. John Murtha a coward.
November 21st, 2005 at 3:31 pmDAVE– I can’t believe her comments have your pink panties in a knot!! I think if anything she will draw more support for her re-election…
Her calling you lefies out by playing the coward card is GREAT!! You guys should just let it drop but you are keeping it alive..
Cutting and running is cowardly and by relaying the letter of a voter in her district she got her point accross. BIG TIME!!! if not getting re-elected is the cost so what… it was worth it..
November 21st, 2005 at 3:36 pmBTW
Since you wanted to bring up Clinton’s lack of service (btw, what makes you think I liked Clinton, and WHAT makes you think I am a democrat?) I thought I would list a few of the more prominent Republican and Democrats service (or lack therof) service records). Since we love to purport the gung ho brave republicans are so patriotic, and the democrats are the chicken tree hugging sissys’ lets take a look at the actual facts on the two parties most popular and outspoken leaders.
Republican Military records show;
* Dick Cheney: did not serve. Five deferments, had “other” priorities….the
last by marriage.
* Dennis Hastert: did not serve.
* Tom Delay: did not serve.
* Roy Blunt: did not serve.
* Bill Frist: did not serve.
* Mitch McConnell: did not serve.
* Rick Santorum: did not serve.
* Trent Lott: did not serve.
* John Ashcroft: did not serve. Seven deferments to
teach business.
* Jeb Bush: did not serve.
* Karl Rove: did not serve.
* Saxby Chambliss: did not serve. “Bad knee.” The man
who attacked Cleland’s patriotism.
* Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve.
* Vin Weber: did not serve.
* Richard Perle: did not serve.
* Douglas Feith: did not serve.
* Eliot Abrams: did not serve.
* Richard Shelby: did not serve.
* Jon Kyl: did not serve.
* Tim Hutchison: did not serve.
* Christopher Cox: did not serve.
* Newt Gingrich: did not serve.
* Don Rumsfeld: served in Navy (1954-57) as flight
instructor.
* George W. Bush: failed to complete his six-year
Air National Guard tour of duty; got assigned to Alabama so he could
campaign for family friend running for U.S. Senate; failed to show up for required medical exam, disappeared from duty.
* Ronald Reagan: due to poor eyesight, served in a
non-combat role making movies.
* B-1 Bob Dornan: Consciously enlisted after fighting
was over in Korea.
* Phil Gramm: did not serve.
* John McCain: Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of
Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross.
* Dana Rohrabacher: did not serve.
* John M. McHugh: did not serve.
* JC Watts: did not serve.
* Jack Kemp: did not serve. “Knee problem,” although
continued in NFL for 8 years.
* Dan Quayle: Journalism unit of the Indiana National
Guard.
* Rudy Giuliani: did not serve.
* George Pataki: did not serve.
* Spencer Abraham: did not serve.
* John Engler: did not serve.
* Lindsey Graham: National Guard lawyer.
* Arnold Schwarzenegger: AWOL from Austrian army
base.
Pundits & Preachers
* Sean Hannity: did not serve.
* Rush Limbaugh: did not serve (4-F with a
‘pilonidal cyst.’)
* Bill O’Reilly: did not serve.
* Michael Savage: did not serve.
* George Will: did not serve.
* Chris Matthews: did not serve.
* Paul Gigot: did not serve.
* Bill Bennett: did not serve.
* Pat Buchanan: did not serve.
* John Wayne: did not serve.
* Bill Kristol: did not serve.
* Kenneth Starr: did not serve.
* Antonin Scalia: did not serve.
* Clarence Thomas: did not serve.
* Ralph Reed: did not serve.
* Michael Medved: did not serve.
* Charlie Daniels: did not serve.
* Ted Nugent: did not serve. (He only shoots at
things that don’t shoot back.)
* Ted Kennedy : 2 years US Army
* Richard Gephardt: Air National Guard, 1965-71
* David Bonior: Staff Sgt., Air Force 1968-72
* Tom Daschle: 1st Lt., Air Force SAC 1969-72.
* Al Gore: enlisted Aug. 1969; sent to Vietnam Jan.
1971 as an army journalist in 20th Engineer Brigade.
* Bob Kerrey: Lt. j.g. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor,
Vietnam.
* Daniel Inouye: Army 1943-47; Medal of Honor, WWII.
* John Kerry: Lt., Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze
Star with Combat V, Purple Hearts.
* Charles Rangel: Staff Sgt., Army 1948-52; Bronze
Star, Korea.
* Max Cleland: Captain, Army 1965-68; Silver Star &
Bronze Star, Vietnam.
* Ted Kennedy: Army, 1951-53.
* Tom Harkin: Lt., Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve,
1968-74.
* Jack Reed: Army Ranger, 1971-1979; Captain, Army
Reserve 1979-91.
* Fritz Hollings: Army officer in WWII; Bronze Star
and seven campaign ribbons.
* Leonard Boswell: Lt. Col., Army 1956-76; Vietnam,
DFCs, Bronze Stars, and Soldier’s Medal.
* Pete Peterson: Air Force Captain, POW. Purple
Heart, Silver Star and Legion of Merit.
* Mike Thompson: Staff sergeant, 173rd Airborne,
Purple Heart.
* Bill McBride: Candidate for Fla. Governor. Marine in
Vietnam; Bronze Star with Combat V.
* Gray Davis: Army Captain in Vietnam, Bronze Star.
* Pete Stark: Air Force 1955-57
* Chuck Robb: Vietnam
* Howell Heflin: Silver Star
* George McGovern: Silver Star & DFC during WWII.
* Bill Clinton: Did not serve. Student deferments.
Entered draft but received #311.
* Jimmy Carter: Seven years in the Navy. Graduate of Naval Academy, Annapolis, MD.
* Walter Mondale: Army 1951-1953
* John Glenn: WWII and Korea; six DFCs and Air Medal
with 18 Clusters.
* Tom Lantos: Served in Hungarian underground in WWII
_______________________________________________________
Kinda puts it all in a little perspective, at least for those of us with working brains.
November 21st, 2005 at 3:45 pmWORFEUS—
The president said Iraq’s refusal to cooperate with U.N. weapons inspectors presented a threat to the entire world.
“Saddam (Hussein) must not be allowed to threaten his neighbors or the world with nuclear arms, poison gas or biological weapons,”
“Earlier today I ordered America’s armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq. They are joined by British forces,”
“Their mission is to attack Iraq’s nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors
- Feb. 17 1998 President Clinton..
We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country.” — Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction.” — Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002
“He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do” — Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002
My personal favorite!
“In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members … It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons.” — Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002
I guess all of those weapons talked about were real then.. and not now..
The BIG OIL excuse isn’t catching on… Everyone is done with that
As far as Murtha.. I still stand by my statement… If you were a computer expert in 1985 and then suddenly quit. You will not be a computer expert in 2005
And since it has resorted to calling me names.. Leads me to believe that you are out of Democratic / Michael Moore talking points..
You and Cindy Sheehan should re adujust your tin foil hats.
November 21st, 2005 at 3:52 pmOne more verse, same as the first;
Republican Military records show;
* Dick Cheney: did not serve. Five deferments, had “other†priorities….the
last by marriage.
* Dennis Hastert: did not serve.
* Tom Delay: did not serve.
* Roy Blunt: did not serve.
* Bill Frist: did not serve.
* Mitch McConnell: did not serve.
* Rick Santorum: did not serve.
* Trent Lott: did not serve.
* John Ashcroft: did not serve. Seven deferments to
teach business.
* Jeb Bush: did not serve.
* Karl Rove: did not serve.
* Saxby Chambliss: did not serve. “Bad knee.†The man
who attacked Cleland’s patriotism.
* Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve.
* Vin Weber: did not serve.
* Richard Perle: did not serve.
* Douglas Feith: did not serve.
* Eliot Abrams: did not serve.
* Richard Shelby: did not serve.
* Jon Kyl: did not serve.
* Tim Hutchison: did not serve.
* Christopher Cox: did not serve.
* Newt Gingrich: did not serve.
* Don Rumsfeld: served in Navy (1954-57) as flight
instructor.
* George W. Bush: failed to complete his six-year
Air National Guard tour of duty; got assigned to Alabama so he could
campaign for family friend running for U.S. Senate; failed to show up for required medical exam, disappeared from duty.
* Ronald Reagan: due to poor eyesight, served in a
non-combat role making movies.
* B-1 Bob Dornan: Consciously enlisted after fighting
was over in Korea.
* Phil Gramm: did not serve.
* John McCain: Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of
Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross.
* Dana Rohrabacher: did not serve.
* John M. McHugh: did not serve.
* JC Watts: did not serve.
* Jack Kemp: did not serve. “Knee problem,†although
continued in NFL for 8 years.
* Dan Quayle: Journalism unit of the Indiana National
Guard.
* Rudy Giuliani: did not serve.
* George Pataki: did not serve.
* Spencer Abraham: did not serve.
* John Engler: did not serve.
* Lindsey Graham: National Guard lawyer.
* Arnold Schwarzenegger: AWOL from Austrian army
base.
Pundits & Preachers
* Sean Hannity: did not serve.
* Rush Limbaugh: did not serve (4-F with a
‘pilonidal cyst.’)
* Bill O’Reilly: did not serve.
* Michael Savage: did not serve.
* George Will: did not serve.
* Chris Matthews: did not serve.
* Paul Gigot: did not serve.
* Bill Bennett: did not serve.
* Pat Buchanan: did not serve.
* John Wayne: did not serve.
* Bill Kristol: did not serve.
* Kenneth Starr: did not serve.
* Antonin Scalia: did not serve.
* Clarence Thomas: did not serve.
* Ralph Reed: did not serve.
* Michael Medved: did not serve.
* Charlie Daniels: did not serve.
* Ted Nugent: did not serve. (He only shoots at
things that don’t shoot back.)
_______________________________________________________
DEMOCRAT MILITARY RECORDS SHOW;
* Ted Kennedy : 2 years US Army
* Richard Gephardt: Air National Guard, 1965-71
* David Bonior: Staff Sgt., Air Force 1968-72
* Tom Daschle: 1st Lt., Air Force SAC 1969-72.
* Al Gore: enlisted Aug. 1969; sent to Vietnam Jan.
1971 as an army journalist in 20th Engineer Brigade.
* Bob Kerrey: Lt. j.g. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor,
Vietnam.
* Daniel Inouye: Army 1943-47; Medal of Honor, WWII.
* John Kerry: Lt., Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze
Star with Combat V, Purple Hearts.
* Charles Rangel: Staff Sgt., Army 1948-52; Bronze
Star, Korea.
* Max Cleland: Captain, Army 1965-68; Silver Star &
Bronze Star, Vietnam.
* Ted Kennedy: Army, 1951-53.
* Tom Harkin: Lt., Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve,
1968-74.
* Jack Reed: Army Ranger, 1971-1979; Captain, Army
Reserve 1979-91.
* Fritz Hollings: Army officer in WWII; Bronze Star
and seven campaign ribbons.
* Leonard Boswell: Lt. Col., Army 1956-76; Vietnam,
DFCs, Bronze Stars, and Soldier’s Medal.
* Pete Peterson: Air Force Captain, POW. Purple
Heart, Silver Star and Legion of Merit.
* Mike Thompson: Staff sergeant, 173rd Airborne,
Purple Heart.
* Bill McBride: Candidate for Fla. Governor. Marine in
Vietnam; Bronze Star with Combat V.
* Gray Davis: Army Captain in Vietnam, Bronze Star.
* Pete Stark: Air Force 1955-57
* Chuck Robb: Vietnam
* Howell Heflin: Silver Star
* George McGovern: Silver Star & DFC during WWII.
* Bill Clinton: Did not serve. Student deferments.
Entered draft but received #311.
* Jimmy Carter: Seven years in the Navy. Graduate of Naval Academy, Annapolis, MD.
* Walter Mondale: Army 1951-1953
* John Glenn: WWII and Korea; six DFCs and Air Medal
with 18 Clusters.
* Tom Lantos: Served in Hungarian underground in WWII
November 21st, 2005 at 3:54 pmFrighteningFred, you keep telling yourself that but it is funny how fast other Republicans are distancing themselves from this smelly turd. btw, love how all you bootlickers pick up all talking points and sound bites so readily, “cut and run” etc, do you guys ever think or for that matter speak for yoursleves?
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. – Benjamin Franklin.
November 21st, 2005 at 3:55 pmWho resort to name calling? I would not talk if I wrer you.
November 21st, 2005 at 3:55 pmShe said it was a message to the congressman not about him. This is VERY simple to understand. Seems like you’re grasping at straws with this site. I suppose the argument over semantics is due to the lack of anything real to say. Do you really think there are that many people who are stupid enough to fall for this kind of propaganda?
November 21st, 2005 at 3:56 pmDAVE-
November 21st, 2005 at 4:01 pmAs far as distancing themselves? Well 403 decided NOT to distance themselves from this.. So stuff that in your tin foil hat.
I could care less if republicans are distancing themselves from this.. I SAID I WAS PLEASED with it.
WORFEUS THANKS FOR PUTTING THAT INFORMATION OUT AGAIN.
That Rep. Danny Bubp had no right to say Rep. Murtha is a coward becuse Bubp was never in combat.
November 21st, 2005 at 4:04 pmBTW Fred, I served as a paratrooper in the 82′nd Airborne division and would knock you on your ass faster than you could say “pink panties”
November 21st, 2005 at 4:05 pmWORFEUS
Thanks for the download off of Michaels site..
Because that is what I think about when I vote.. How many medals they do or don’t earn.. Or in John Kerry’s case…. pencil whip.
oops..sorry worfeus.. Military term.. That means cheat.
BTW–I never knew Bill O’Riely or Rush were running for public office..
November 21st, 2005 at 4:06 pmYou are wrong she said that Rep. Murtha was a coward. Listen to the video. Jean Schmidt will not be in congress very long.
November 21st, 2005 at 4:09 pmDAVE– hey Dave.. So how many chutes did you pack?
I personally never had to jump out of a plane.. but I was in the infantry… and you know something.. I highly doubt you can kick my ass.. seriosuly…
November 21st, 2005 at 4:10 pmI never packed my own chute, they had riggers for that.
November 21st, 2005 at 4:12 pmHey WORFEUS,
I have not heard a SINGLE Republican advance the “if you haven’t served, you have no business commenting on the War” mantra… That’s the territory of the Democrats.
Just like “you’re repeating what I said, so that’s a ‘personal attack’” is chanted by Democrats, NOT Republicans.
I think it’s a safe bet that ANYONE who voted for their Senators and member of the House of Representatives KNOWS their military service (or, more likely, thinks that their military service is NOT IMPORTANT [with respect to their ability to LEGISLATE (which is their job, after all)]).
I KNOW, for example, that one of MY Senators was NEVER a lawyer (shocking, I know) – nor has she served in the Armed Forces… It simply is NOT a part of her resume that ANYONE GIVES A CRAP about…
Ditto for ANYONE ELSE who wishes to comment, complain, arm-chair quarterback… EVERYONE is entitled to voice their opinion (unlike the Saddam Regime, or Taliban governments [wait, NEITHER of those exist anymore, do they?] HERE, you are free to speak your mind – EVEN if you call for COWARDLY withdrawal of troops, or suggest that someone who IS suggesting an act of cowardace is, in point of fact, a COWARD…
YOU, are free to agree or disagree (I really don’t care) – but I’ll be DAMNED if I’m going to sit around and allow the “Left” set the agenda, or frame the argument WHEN THEY ARE WRONG!
AND, when they’re RIGHT – I’LL say so, too (it doesn’t happen very often anyway)… For example, those 187 Democrats who joined the 215 Republicans in voting NO to H. Res 571, did EXACTLY the right thing (it just too bad that their RHETORIC over the past weeks does not correspond to their VOTE).
But, hey, you go right on believing Cindy Sheehan and Michael Moore. I’ll bet you’re proudly wearing that “Neville Chamberlain was Right!” t-shirt, too.
I’m sure, if you asked ANY member of the Armed Services, they, too, would tell you that they are fighting for (and willing to die to) protect YOUR right to be WRONG(whether you like it, or not)!
November 21st, 2005 at 4:16 pmNice try at testing my veracity though fred. I guess that proves you are capable of at least some original thought, or did you really think paratroopers packed their own chutes?
November 21st, 2005 at 4:19 pmDAVE– the chute thing was a joke.. anyway…maybe you will get it later..
AND Thanks for serving..
support your brothers in harms way!
They’d do the same for you.
November 21st, 2005 at 4:19 pmNo genius, I am not a democrat, and I am not a stinking republican either. I think for myself (something you should try sometime, it’s hard and it takes some will but you can do it if you want).
It’s funny how you choose to quote Bill Clinton on Iraq. Bill Clinton is NOT the president and is not in charge. Bush is. Bill Clinton did not start the war in Iraq, Bush did. I am not in here defending Bill Clinton, and I don’t know how much clearer I can be about that. But all of that is moot anyway.
You seem to believe that because Iraq may or may not have possesed WMD that that somehow makes a difference. I don’t care WHAT they possess or possessed. It does not justfy the murder of their people. America is not a coward who lashes out at every small country that may one day down the road offer some sort of threat to us. It takes courage to be an American. Courage and restraint go hand in hand. Having power, and using it are two different things.
And saying Iraq was a brave act to protect Americans is a load of CRAP.
Here’s an example.
For all your tough talk, North Korea called you and your republican cronies out a while back. They lsapped a gauntlet in your face.
Just as we were defending our decision to go into Iraq becasue they “might” possess WMD, North Korea came out and said hey “we DO possess” WMD, and they also said “what you Americans gonna do about it?”.
And what did all the tough talking republicans do? After all, Iraq could not hit the broadside of a barn during Deseret Storm to their neighbors in Isreal with a SCUD, and did not present near the threat of North Korea, who cleaned our clocks back in the 50’s and we ended up calling a truce with, and who does have missles capable of reaching US bases in Guam and Alaska.
Now we had a real war facing us down. A war with a real army, real tanks, reak nukes and a lot of freaking soldiers. And what did the mighty republican war machine do? Did they stand up and order the dismantling of these illegal nukes? Did we move in our military and build up for an all out assault? After all North Korea presents a “real threat” compared to a country that does NOT EVEN HAVE A NAVY or ANY long range capabilites whatsoever. Did we perform our Pre-emptive strikes then? We did on Iraq so we must do it here right. If Iraq was to protect us then we must attack North Korea as well. But did we. Of course not.
What about China tough guy? China who presents a real threat beyond anything you or I can probably imagine. Do we talk tough with them? Or do we attend state dinners, and push bantar and comprimise?
You guys love to talk tough, that is until the going gets tough. You are like the bullies I remember in school, always picking on the littlest kids, but when someone like me, who stood up to them, and had some mucscle to back it up with stepped up, they always shrink into the “oh I didn’t mean you” or “oh I don’t have a problem with you” ramblings. Love to pick on the little guys don’t you?
Our sending our military to fight Iraq was equivilent to putting Mike Tyson in the ring with DON KNOTT’s.
It was not brave, it was not righteous, and it was not to “protect us”. Our reaction to North Korea and other “real” threats in the world make it clear “that dog won’t hunt”.
November 21st, 2005 at 4:19 pmWhat makes you right? The point is the House did not debate Rep. Murtha amendment it was Hunter amendment. They voted on Hunter Amendment not Murtha. You are DEAD WRONG.
November 21st, 2005 at 4:24 pmAhhh kinda like how Jean Schmidt’s comments to Murtha were a joke, I get it now.
November 21st, 2005 at 4:24 pmSorry, WORFEUS,
I forgot to correct one other TINY LITTLE mistake…
The United States did NOT “start” the war Iraq.
Try to follow along, I’ll type slowly, so you can keep up…
I should simply suggest that you go find this for yourself, but I know you won’t so…
H.J.Res 114 (voted on 11-OCT-2002, 77 YES, 23 NO):
“Whereas in 1990 in response to Iraq’s war of aggression against and illegal occupation of Kuwait, the United States forged a coalition of nations to liberate Kuwait and its people in order to defend the national security of the United States and enforce United Nations Security Council resolutions relating to Iraq;
Whereas after the liberation of Kuwait in 1991, Iraq entered into a United Nations sponsored cease-fire agreement…
The President is authorized to use the Armed Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary and appropriate in order to … enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq.”
Now, the Cliff’s Notes version: “in response to Iraq’s war” (Saddam Started this); “Iraq entered into a United Nations sponsored cease-fire agreement” (The war did not END).
In as much as Saddam was given, what was it, 12 YEARS to comply with the, 17 (more or less) United Nations Resolutions DEMANDING that he COMPLY with the aforementioned CEASE-FIRE or face “serious consequences”… Well, guess what… We’re still in the midst of those “serious consequences”.
Or, to put it simply (for you Liberals) – THE CEASE-FIRE ageement was broken BY SADDAM – ergo, the WAR (the PREVIOUS WAR) is “back on”…
Or, for you Politically Correct numbskulls, Saddam’s “timeout†was declared OVER, and the game was back on… That “game†is called WAR. It’s the SAME WAR, it’s not a NEW ONE…
November 21st, 2005 at 4:36 pmWorfeus.
I believe the guys who flew the planes into the buildings had arab names.. The muslim radicals and the countries they thrive in are a little higher on the radar screen.
If diplomacy worked for them.. maybe we’d have used that.. but since it is hard to find the little buggers, scratch that one off the list.
Since N. Korea is an actual country that is at least willing to talk maybe we could use……damn lost it…what did I say before….Oh wait ….It’s coming……
Wanna know?
Diplomacy!!!
Same with China… We know they are aggressive and talk smack… We can deal with them but lets give a little diplomacy a whirl.. And you know… It is kind of working.. KIM JONG is talking and Bush is in ASIA as we speak.
November 21st, 2005 at 4:38 pmHey M. Ward
Thanks for the memory refresh!
Worfeus… I almost forgot.. We are still in Korea.. about 30,000 of us.
just enough to hold off anything until the cavalry gets there… And they can be there quick.
November 21st, 2005 at 4:43 pmCorrect me if I’m wrong, but Jean looks a little thin to me. I mean, some of you would say that she is just another anorexic Repugnican bitch.
She runs marathons, when she is not making a fool of herself or protesting at abortion clinics.
November 21st, 2005 at 4:45 pmLarry
Thank you so much for your thoughtful addition to the conversation.
Your command of the english language only confirms your educational up bringing as being a total dumbass!
November 21st, 2005 at 4:53 pmYea genuis, and we also had a Armistance with North Korea that was just broken by their admittance of WMD.
What did you do about that tough guy? Nothing. Not a damnded thing.
You like to pick on the small and defenseless so you can attend state dinners and tell yourselves what wonderful military strategists you all are, but I know a buzzard when I smell one. Buzzards always go for the easy kill or the leavings of another. They never pick fights with the big cats.
All the world told you know to go into Iraq. All the world said it was wrong. But a select handful of you, perhaps we could call you the “chosen ones” saw the truth. You all saw that this tiny little country, this country that never presented the least threat to American shores, would somehow one day become a danger, so you rode off on your gallant steeds to quelch the evil beast of Bagdad.
Never mind that North Korea, who is prohibited by international agreement from having nuclear weapons had just confessed to having them. Forget that a ship load of Nuclear Missle casing was intercepted on it’s way to Yemmin and originating from North Korea, forget that the their leader announced he no longer recognized the Armistice signed with the US, just go show the world how tough we are by kicking the crap out of a small tiny nation that allready had the crap kicked out of it by the world a a decade earlier.
You know, I think you actually believe your own load of crap. I’ve got news for you M. Ward. Their is a seat waiting for you, a seat in history, alongside many other greats, like Himmler, Goebels, Goering and others. Men who believed that their Christian righteousness made them above the “chaff of the masses” and that whatever evils they committed in the name of Christ were somehow good. Christians have ALWAYS felt the need to kill Muslims. It has always been “our holy war” our “Jihad”.
No doubt you will now want to remind us all of how we were attacked by Muslims on 911 so we had to go kill muslims in Iraq. Hey they all wear turbins right? And murder isn’t murder if it’s to protect our precious fat american fanny’s from some threat down the road that may or may not occur. (monkey’s have a better chance of flying out of your butt than Iraq ever had of striking US soil)
And hey, don’t worry. Your place in history, and in the heaven in which you believe is assured. God will welcome you with open arms. And if he asks you funny questions about 8 year old Iraqi girls arms ripped apart by your bullets and bombs, then just explain to him how you thought they might want to hurt you some day. Oh yea, don’t forget to tell God how brave you were.
All I can say to you is “Godspeed” to you sir, you and your merry band of righteous knightly crusaders. And I’ll see you at the fish fry.
November 21st, 2005 at 4:58 pmMary Popins,
If you can READ (it’s okay if you move your lips)…
“He asked me to send Congress a message: Stay the course. He also asked me to send Congressman Murtha a message – that cowards cut and run, Marines never do.”
That’s from the transcript…
NOTE: “HE ASKED ME” – now, I know it’s not THAT hard to grasp… the “that cowards cut and run” comment is (allegedly) from the “HE”.
Also, it does not say, “Hey, Congressman Murtha, YOU are a coward.” It simply states an undeniable TRUTH – that cutting and running from a battle IS an act of cowardice.
You can rant and rave all you like, but you CANNOT re-write history… You CANNOT simply assert facts which are so easily refuted (like Dan Rather’s memos, for example)…
But don’t let me stop you… You go right on hating Bush, and Conservatives…
I will leave you with this little bit of advice, though… Conservatives CAN be convinced to change our minds… We simply need FACTS to back up the argument… “Bush Lied”, “Haliburton”, “Cheney”, “Rumsfeld”, “Rove”, “Oil” simply does NOTHING for us…
Basically, if it fits on a bumper sticker – it means NOTHING to us… BUT, we know it rules your world, SO, here’s a few of mine…
“I support the Troops – NOT Cindy Sheehan”.
“I Live Better – YOU work union”
“Kerry got Swift-Boats – Murtha got Swift VOTES”.
November 21st, 2005 at 5:05 pm1.they got WMD’s from Clinton
2.The world? the world did not vote.. Only about 5 of them did. 3 to 2..
How about France Germany and China didn’t want us to go to war and expose the OIL FOR PALACES scandal!!!!
Oh yeah.. forgot about that.. GUILTY right up to Chriac himself!!!!!
And 3. I was wondering when you were going to start comparing the republicans to Nazis.. It took you something like 5 posts.. I am impressed that you held out for so long..
It’s old… Your comparison of nazis to republicans exposes how little you know about fascism and communism.
You need to stop watching Bowling for Columbine and F911 and read a little.
Talk to you all another day.
I am out
November 21st, 2005 at 5:05 pmAgain, WORFEUS,
Only because YOU brought it up… The 9/11 attack WAS, indeed, carried out by “Muslim male extremists, mostly between the ages of 17 and 40″…
BUT, and this is where you Libs get a bit off message…
The 9/11 “counter-attack” was in Afghanistan (which the Democrats SAY they supported) – NOT Iraq…
We are NOT fighting in Iraq BECAUSE of 9/11 (like we think that Iraqis flew planes into the World Trade Center)…
NO – try to keep up – there’ll be a quiz later – Because Saddam VIOLATED the United Nations Resolutions (ALL of them) – the President (AND CONGRESS) decided that DIPLOMACY had been given MORE THAN ENOUGH TIME – with NOTHING to show for it…
You know, when you can get a UNANIMOUS resolution passed (including France, and Germany and Syria) – declaring Saddam to be in “material breech” of ALL of the cease-fire and previous U.N. Resolutions – it CAN’T be based on Karl Rove, or Dick Cheney, or Haliburton – NO, not even “W” holds THAT MUCH clout…
I know I didn’t mention Colin Powell, did I? Let’s see… Was Colin Powell a stupid black man, who just went along with “W” because he’s a “house slave”? Or did he LIE about the Intellegence? OR, as MOST people believe – He is an Honest, Decent, Brilliant man (who happens to be black), who, like almost everyone else – TRULY AND HONESTLY BELIEVED the Intellegence Reports?
November 21st, 2005 at 5:24 pmFred, I of course cannot be certain, maybe your a history proffessor or something, but I would wager that I know more about the rise and fall of the Nazi party on my worst day than you do on your best.
And the comparisons to the rise of the Nazi party aren’t meant to say we are there, …yet.
It took time, almost a decade in fact, for Hitler to complete his rise to full power and control of the German war machine. Hitler knew that the people would know roll over easily, so he lead them along, little by little, lie by lie. He convinced them that Poland, Poland if you can believe it, was somehow a threat to Germany, and a “pre-emptive” strike would be necessary to “keep the German people safe”. Same with France. Same with the Jewish people.
Bush also was the first leader in his generation to introduce pre-emptive war to a civilian population. That is a fact. Not a theory, just a simple fact.
Like Hitler, Bush has labled a division of a large religous population as the “enemy”. Hitler started with fundemental Jews, partisan zealots, and Bush uses fundemental Islam.
Like Hilter, Bush surrounded himself with his cronies and appointed many unqualified and questionable characters to high level cabinet positions.
Like Hitler, Bushes election was questionable at best. You can argue it wasn;t but more than HALF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE disagreed with you. The MAJORITY disagreed, but the minority won.
Like Hitler, bush used the actions of a few radical terrorists to introced the “enabling act” which reduced the civil liberties of the German people by claiming they were at war and needed to, even though the only war they were at was one they were easily dominating (although they NEVER could control the insurgent rebellion)and that they started.
Like Hitler, Bush was a little accomplished man prior to his rise to power. Both were monuments to mediocrity, and yet both became rulers with iron fists.
Both used intelligence that was cherry picked at best to justify their wars.
And the list goes on. But I am not here to prove that their is some mystical conspiracy. We are certainly not Nazi Germany yet. But we are certainly making many of the SAME MISTAKES that helped launch “die tausand jarh riech”. If you can’t see the similarites, then you just don’t want to. Everyone else can.
Over the holocaust museum here in DC there is an inscription over the doorway. “so we may never forget”.
You think it’s impossible for us to become as evil and notorious as Nazi germany? You think we can’t walk down that road? All we have to do to walk down that road is keep going the way we are going. Keep allowing religous nuts like Ashcroft who believes he can speak in tounges, make laws and pass acts that are almost identical to Hitlers “enabling act”. Keep voting in men who love to wage war but are afraid to fight in one. Keep believing that the blood of an American is worth more than the blood of an Iraqi in the eyes of this God you supposedly believe in.
But don’t think that the world is going to stand by and watch. Why do you think Russia and China for the first time in history have just completed the first ever joint tactical operations and war games? They said it was to “stabilize a small, fictional occupied country”. Hmm,,,now where is one of those?
Keep it up, and you may get the real war you’ve always wanted. Keep it up, and you and me won’t be disagreening on anything anymore. Well be too busy diggin our foxholes and watching each others backs.
Keep it up.
November 21st, 2005 at 5:37 pmP.S
November 21st, 2005 at 5:38 pmI meant M. Ward. Sorry Fred.
And, again, WORFEUS…
You are correct… We have not done “anything” about North Korea (yet).
But I tell you, I’m SO GLAD you Liberals didn’t block StarWars Missile Defense Initiative – so NOW, we have a system in place that will shoot those puppies right out of the sky, BEFORE they land on us…
Oh, wait, you guys HAVE been blocking that since Ronald Reagan proposed it 21 F’ing YEARS ago…
So, now, I guess we just wait until the United Nations passes ANOTHER 17 useless resolutions, and we HOPE that Kim Jung Il is kept busy by raping his women for the next 12 YEARS (or so) – JUST like we did for Saddam…
But who can argue with history? That Armistice of 1953 has OBVIOUSLY worked wonders… You’re SO right… War is NOT the answer – slow build up of WMD by our enemies while they hide under the cloak of CEASE-FIRE agreements is DEFINATELY the way to go!
November 21st, 2005 at 5:46 pm“#
saying Iraq was a brave act to protect Americans is a load of CRAP.
Here’s an example.
For all your tough talk, North Korea called you and your republican cronies out a while back. They lsapped a gauntlet in your face.
Just as we were defending our decision to go into Iraq becasue they “might†possess WMD, North Korea came out and said hey “we DO possess†WMD, and they also said “what you Americans gonna do about it?â€.
And what did all the tough talking republicans do? After all, Iraq could not hit the broadside of a barn during Deseret Storm to their neighbors in Isreal with a SCUD, and did not present near the threat of North Korea, who cleaned our clocks back in the 50’s and we ended up calling a truce with, and who does have missles capable of reaching US bases in Guam and Alaska.
Now we had a real war facing us down. A war with a real army, real tanks, reak nukes and a lot of freaking soldiers. And what did the mighty republican war machine do? Did they stand up and order the dismantling of these illegal nukes? Did we move in our military and build up for an all out assault? After all North Korea presents a “real threat†compared to a country that does NOT EVEN HAVE A NAVY or ANY long range capabilites whatsoever. Did we perform our Pre-emptive strikes then? We did on Iraq so we must do it here right. If Iraq was to protect us then we must attack North Korea as well. But did we. Of course not.
What about China tough guy? China who presents a real threat beyond anything you or I can probably imagine. Do we talk tough with them? Or do we attend state dinners, and push bantar and comprimise?
You guys love to talk tough, that is until the going gets tough. You are like the bullies I remember in school, always picking on the littlest kids, but when someone like me, who stood up to them, and had some mucscle to back it up with stepped up, they always shrink into the “oh I didn’t mean you†or “oh I don’t have a problem with you†ramblings. Love to pick on the little guys don’t you?
Our sending our military to fight Iraq was equivilent to putting Mike Tyson in the ring with DON KNOTT’s.
It was not brave, it was not righteous, and it was not to “protect usâ€. Our reaction to North Korea and other “real†threats in the world make it clear “that dog won’t huntâ€.
Comment by WORFEUS — November 21, 2005 @ 4:19 pm”
I see….
Interesting for someone who OBVIOUSLY sees herself as some sort of “super cross” between Worf, or “Mr. Gnarly Noggin”, and the character “Morpheus” from the dreary Matrix series [which by the way are a watery rip off of a decades-old book, "The Neuromancer"]…
The U.S. Troops [Chosin Few, etc.] rather ably repelled numerous “human wave” attacks by the Communist Chinese for years in Korea before the UN ‘POLICE ACTION’ was called off. Since then the South Koreans have prospered and those in the North have starved BECAUSE the ChiComs’ puppets have spent every available penny on fanatical military build-up.
“Iraq could not hit the broadside of a barn during Deseret Storm to their neighbors in Isreal with a SCUD”
The REASON none of the SCUDs landed in Israel was because of Patriot Missile Batteries which shot them down.
But, hey….don’t let REALITY prevent you from hiding behind your fictional character base which empowers you to become a legend in your own mind.
idiot.
November 21st, 2005 at 5:55 pmIt’s time to put people like congresswomen Schmidt on the Axis of Evil. Mr. Murtha is probably one of the best representatives we have in the world of American courage, patriotism and service. He is indeed a pinnacle of what’s right with America. And his wisdom, loyalty and selfless sacrifice to this country, are in NO way diminished by the seditious rantings of this souless servant of evil.
The worst part is, the republicans and many democrats are ignoring the GENUIS of Mr. Murtha’s plan. He is NOT saying to withdraw completely. He is talking about REDEPLOYMENT to the outskirts of Iraq, out towards the Caspian sea where we mounted Deseret Storm.
The plan is to redeploy, and use quick response strike teams to assit the Iraqi army if there are uprisings or issues they can’t deal with. In other words, leave the house but be a phone call away. That way we would not be abandoning the Iraqi people, but we would be out of sight, and out of reach of the IED’s. Our soldiers would no longer be in danger, and we would not be losing an average of 4 a day. The Iraqi people would be forced to stand up (necessity is the mother of invention) and yet in an emergency, we could swoop in and still save the day.
No this plan is simple brilliance, and with all the hype by peices of schmidt like ms. schmidt, we never focused on the actual plan by this Mr. Murtha.
Obviously the republicans liked the plan so much that they had to distract us from it. God forbid they allow a democrat, particularly a war hero democrat out think them on the Iraq war. After all, the republicans obviously know so much more about war. So much in fact, that most of them have been able to avoid it their entire lives.
Worfeus
genius,
M. Ward. Don’t make the mistake of thinking I am a Democrat, or Liberal, or anything else. I am affiliated with no political party, nor do I subscribe to any preconceived doctrines. If I had to call myself anything I would call myself a “conscientious realistâ€. I believe in the goodness of America, and in the strength of our will. When I was little, I used to attend the Jhoon Rhee Tae Kwon Do schools here in DC. People laughed at the Jhoon Rhee commercials, but their motto, which we all chanted at the start and end of every class, was “might for rightâ€. I believe in that way, that principle, that “doâ€. So naturally I support the missile defense system. I support all “defensive†military might. We should spend “Billions†on our military. Not in fighting little crap wars in tiny little countries, but in building up our military defenses to the point where our enemies don’t dare mess with us. I believe in strong border security, and immigration control. I believe in policemen having the best, high powered rifles and automatic weapons so the debacles like the LA bank robbery never occur again.
I believe in strength. But I believe that with that strength one needs brains to match. Moral courage that says, we don’t attack tiny nations, killing tens of thousands so we can sleep a little safer at night. Moral courage that keeps us from passing bills and acts in moments of crisis and passion that take away from the liberties and freedoms that real patriots fought and died so valiantly for. Moral courage that say, “give me liberty, or give me deathâ€, instead of “take whatever freedoms and liberties you need Mr. President, just don’t let us here at home get hurtâ€. Moral courage that makes the world stand in awe, instead of delivering death with “shock and aweâ€.
I think in the end we will find more of us believed in many of the same things. But many of us draw the line at what we can clearly see is little more than conquest and murder.
I will only kill those who attack me, not those who you say some day down the road may possibly be some sort of threat to me. There are threats to you every day you step out of your front door. Who said life, or liberty for that matter, was safe? I would defend this country to my last dying breath if we were attacked. And thanks to so many wonderfully gung ho war mongering republicans, and a lot of spineless wimpy democrats, I will likely get the chance to have to do it sometime in the next five years. War breeds more war. And our failures in Iraq EMBOLDEN our real enemies. Here comes the China-Russo alliance to ensure you guys get all the war you want.
Thanks a lot guys.
November 21st, 2005 at 6:11 pmBTW JB STONE
Thanks for the idiot mention, but you don’t obviously don’t know your ass from a hole in the ground.
It is common knowledge that a large percentage of SCUD’s were not hit with Patriots, and still failed to find their targets. Many did not even detonate!
As for Korea, my Uncle died their so don’t tell me about how well we did. We got our asses handed to us. Sure we repelled attacks, and we fought well. But how do you stop 2 million men? Answer, you shake hands and settle on an agreement, which is EXACTLY what we did.
And by the way chucklehead, I am guy, not a girl genius. And the handle is just that. A handle. Deal with it.
Idiot.
November 21st, 2005 at 6:22 pmHere’s a suggestion to help you resolve the never ending ‘us against them’, ‘with us or against us’ mentality that permeates american internal politcs and once again has been thoughtfully exported to the world around you by your war president. Invite Hans Blix and the U.N. weapons inspectors in to secure america’s insanely vast quantities of WMD (this would be done only to prevent those terrible friendly fire incidents the US is reknown for) pick your teams, and have yourselves another civil war. You could go north-south again, maybe east-west for a change of pace, or red-blue if you are looking for a real blood bath. It’s your country, you pick. Then instead of the figurative ass kicking you promise each other over the internet from the safety of your parents basement, you can prove to one another face to face how you earn that all important war record. Everybody got a gun?
November 21st, 2005 at 6:29 pmWORFEUS,
Every war, without exception, has “collateral damage”. That is an unfortunate consequence of military action…
However, NO ONE at ANY level of the United States Government or Military said, “Hey, I know – let’s go blow the shit out of a bunch of civilians – we can blow MILLIONS of dollars on weapons, and STILL keep our soldiers in harms way – ’cause we would have done NOTHING to make them safer by targeting MILITARY targets – AND, as an added guarantee to the on-going peril of our troops, We’ll tell them NOT to shoot at Mosques – even if those Mosques are being used as weapons caches, or as forts by ‘insurgents’. AND, by targeting civilians, we will REALLY piss off the insurgents, so it will make our soldiers’ job that much harder.”
How STUPID do you think the American People are? They’re not ALL Democrats, you know – the rest of us have BRAINS, and LOGIC and can see through the lunacy of your comments…
Now, as to the ever-present “Bush is Hitler†comparison…
The Republicans DO NOT want to reinstate “the draft” – THAT dubious “honor” belongs to the Democrats (Rep. Charles Rangel – H.R. 2723)! THEY are the ones who believe in INVOLUNTARY SERVITUDE (whether that be by Forced Military Service [oh, just like Hitler's Germany] or by enslavement to Social Programs which do NOTHING to lift people out of poverty, but seek to maintain their meager existence).
You know, if the “insurgents†would stop hiding behind women and children, or in Mosques, perhaps there would be less “collateral damageâ€. It’s up to THEM, not us (just like the time-table for the withdrawal of troops)…
If the “insurgents†would surrender to the will of the Iraqi people, and use the ballot box to advance their agenda, our armed forces could come home tomorrow! BUT, I don’t expect that to happen (it seems like the Iraqi people don’t much care for the al-Zarqawi style of government).
November 21st, 2005 at 6:30 pmM.Ward.
Why are you talking to me about republicans and democrats???
What part of I AM NOT A DEMOCRAT can you not comprehend????
Look buddy, whatever helps you sleep at night ok? You wanna condone murder, call it ‘collateral damage”? Ok. Fine, whatever helps you sleep. I’ll see ya at the fish fry.
November 21st, 2005 at 6:35 pmOh yea, and those women and children, they should “get out of the way”. Screw their little bodies if they don’t.
Sure, your no war criminal….your one of the “good guys”.
November 21st, 2005 at 6:37 pmThanks, Worfeus, for your thoughtful comments. It appears that JB Stoned and MWard are simply the lackeys of the radical right who cannot accept the fact that they are part of a withering minority in this country. Thank God Ms. Schmidt finally revealed the desperation that the Republican Party has reached.
November 21st, 2005 at 6:37 pmI know, howabout everyone of you good little goosesteppers who support this goddamn war go and fight it?
How about that? Whats wrong with that? You want it? You fight it? Sounds fair to me.
Bring everyone else who does not share your bloodlust and murderous souls home. Everyone that wants to fight and kill Iraqi’s, you get to go do it. ALL OF YOU.
Then when you get done, you can come home. Just don’t be surprised if the door is locked.
November 21st, 2005 at 6:41 pm1neatguy,
So from whence do you hail? The U.K.? (where private gun ownership has been abolished, and resulted in the violent crime rate exceed that of the U.S.)?
Doesn’t really matter…
SO – you trust Hans Blix NOW? What was your opinion of him, when he enumerated the “proscribed weapons” unearthed in Iraq?
If the subtleties of that missed you, the United Nations Weapons Inspectors DID manage to locate and identify several types of weapons which Iraq was NOT supposed to possess (yet, there they were)…
I’ll grant you – Hans Blix DID manage to locate SOME weapons which should not have been there – BUT (and this is a BIG but)… The Cease-Fire agreement which Saddam AGREED to, called upon IRAQ to ACCOUNT for ALL of their weapons which were not allowed… It was NOT up to the United Nations to play hide-and-seek with Iraq…
Yeah, SOME things were found – BUT there is STILL to this day, TENS OF THOUSANDS OF GALLONS of Chemical and Biological Weapons which are UN-ACCOUNTED FOR (even according to Hans Blix)…
SO, are you going to give ME 12 YEARS to hide all the crap I don’t want found, THEN, let me play in-one-door-and-out-the-other with the inspectors, too?
November 21st, 2005 at 6:46 pmDidn’t you hear me M. Ward? You ain’t got time to chat. You got a war to go fight. Now go on, get going. Hurry up, there are women and children waiting to “get out of your way”.
November 21st, 2005 at 6:50 pmPS. M.Ward
Saddam was contained. He presented no threat. NONE.
Just go talk to Scott Ritter. Oh yea, what would he know. He was just a weapons inspector and decorated gulf war Marine.
We all know of the recent republican contempt for Marines.
November 21st, 2005 at 6:51 pmNow pack your bags and git ur lil republican but going. You got a boat to catch..
November 21st, 2005 at 6:54 pmWORFEUS,
What part of “ALL VOLUNTEER MILITARY” don’t you get?
What, precisely, do you think the duties and responsibilities of a member of the Armed Forces IS?
NO, Most of us are NOT gleefully rejoicing in the fact that we are at war, and that our men and women in uniform are in harms way, away from their families…
BUT we sure as hell are not going to sit around and cross our fingers – hoping that Saddam Hussein, Kim Jung Il, etc. are going to be MOVED by Cindy Sheehan, et al, sitting in the mud outside of the President’s Crawford Texas ranch (and join in a chorus of Kum Ba Yah).
Remember, Hitler PROMISED he’s just take Poland (and THAT was good enough for Neville Chamberlain)… And he PROMISED he wouldn’t invade Russia (and Stalin believed him – LOL). And why would WE want to get involved in that pesky World War II nonsense… I’m sure if we had just sat down and tried to figure out why the Japanese hated us, everything would have been alright…
NO, my reluctant, misguided, friend…
Sometimes WAR IS THE ANSWER… It was on December 7th 1941, and it was on September 11th, 2001, and again on October 11th, 2002 (when Congress voted to APPROVE the use of Military force against Iraq).
History proved Neville Chamberlain to be WRONG, and HISTORY (not public opinion polls) will judge President Bush… I’m still trying to find a copy of that BEST SELLER, “Great Moderates in American Historyâ€â€¦ I’m sure there’s a chapter on you…
November 21st, 2005 at 7:05 pmNow explain to me why it would have been better accepted if Bill Clinton would have invaded Iraq?
November 21st, 2005 at 7:16 pmYou are brilliant. Your brilliance dazzles me.
“It was on December 7th 1941, and it was on September 11th, 2001, and again on October 11th, 2002 (when Congress voted to APPROVE the use of Military force against Iraq).”
Thats brilliant. You show us how a snake in the grass slithers it’s lies right under the door.
Your insistance on tying 911 to Iraq, (thanks for the glaring example, this is how Bush and co. did it all along) is what will haunt your pathetically decieved soul in that miserable hell you are so carefully crafting for it.
What was the reason 911 justified Iraq again? Oh yea, they all look alike.
Who was it who said “there is no greater sin than to bear false witness against thy neighbor”?
November 21st, 2005 at 7:16 pmYea, hear you loud and clear the first time (I ignored your mantra then, and I can ignore it now)…
If the military wants almost 50, software developers, they can have me!
Last time I checked, however, the Military does want old geezers like me (or Bill Clinton – hell, the Military didn’t much like Clinton when he was Commander-in-Chief)…
Okay, you’re not a Republican nor a Democrat… So?
Are you a Liberal, or a sheep (who waits until the morning AFTER the election to put out your “Vote For XXXXXX” lawn sign, ’cause you need to see how everyone ELSE voted, before you’ll decide what YOU “believe”)?
Do you even vote (in the United States elections)? Did YOUR candidate win the last election? Congratulations!
November 21st, 2005 at 7:21 pmOne other small question. Maybe you can answer. You sound like a good lil card carrying right wing apologist.
Maybe you can answer why you and your komrads seem to always equate “Glory” with war?
And I got news for you. Iraq ain’t no war. It’s a forced occupation of a defensless country. When war comes along, I won’t need you or your paintball on the weekend buddies to tell us we are at war. When war is here, you’ll know it.
November 21st, 2005 at 7:24 pmAmd I did vote in the last election, and no my candidate did not win. At least, the computers that your candidate decided to introduce and then ordered that there be NO PAPER TRAIL of the tallies, said he did.
Now, what’s that your wearing? Looks like a wool coat?
November 21st, 2005 at 7:26 pmM.Ward,
Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t a strong, militarily mighty Japan ATTACK the United States in 1941? Also, correct me if I’m wrong, but weren’t we routinely bombing Iraq for 10 years after we gave them a beating in the first Gulf War? In what possible way can you compare our response to an ATTACK from Japan to our second attack ON Iraq?
November 21st, 2005 at 7:30 pmWORFEUS,
You think you could get BOTH of your brain cells working in unison this time?
First, rather than “brilliant”, perhaps you could attempt to ADDRESS the FACTS presented…
NO, I reiterate, there was NOT a “link” between Iraq and September 11th…
There WAS, in fact, a link between al-Qaeda and Saddam, but Saddam had NO DIRECT LINK to the 9/11 attack… Got that? Do I have to write it in Crayon, so you can understand?
Saddam Invaded Kuwait (perhaps THAT’s were YOU are confused ‘cuase they all look alike to YOU). HE Violated the Cease-Fire Agreement. EVERYONE said he was dangerous. THAT’s WHY we RESUMED the war against Iraq.
I don’t know about YOU, but I HAVE spent time in the Middle East, so don’t suggest that I’m some stupid single-language speaking American dolt.
Perhaps we should say that unless you speak Arabic (or Farsi, or Hebrew), YOU cannot comment on what happens in the Middle East… How about that?
Oh, and Republicans are NOT critial of Marines – we’re critical of STUPID, dangerous, cowards. Again, Mr. Murtha, if the shoe fits…
November 21st, 2005 at 7:32 pmAnd I am also 45 years old, and I also work in the technology field. In fact, I own the company.
And I can tell you that the Military is activlely looking for Computer support people in Iraq as we speak. In fact, they are desparate for them. Now it may not be exactly what you normally do but it will be close and the pay will be great!
If you are serious I would be happy to hook you up with someone who will find you a role in Bagdad to fill.
Still Interested? Because they can get you over there faster than you can crap your pants.
November 21st, 2005 at 7:33 pmAfter the first Gulf War, years of crippling sanctions, the intermittant bombings during the enforcement of the ‘no fly’ policy, and yes, with the U.N. weapons inspectors work on the ground, I’d say it was a safe bet that Saddam was not a credible threat to nuke or gas anyone. If his defiant posturing and reluctance to make it as easy as possible for the inspectors to do their work had a purpose, IMO it was only to protect himself and his regime from retaliation from his numerous enemies in Iraq and in the mideast. Having no real teeth and letting this fact be known would surely invite retribution from a long list of enemies. The final proof of his inability to employ WMD, unfortunately, is provided by US and British soldiers sent there for the express purpose of uncovering them and finding… nada. The sorry old buggar couldn’t even hide himself let alone tons of weapons. If someone, somewhere during the invasion had uncovered weapons of this variety, I have no doubt the White House and the major media outlets would have been on them like a fat kid on a smartie.
November 21st, 2005 at 7:36 pmAnd BTW, your the one that put Iraq, 911 and Pearl Harbor in the same thought vein. Your the one that implied it, and everyone reading it can clearly see that from your last post, whether you can or not.
Maybe this explains a lot. Maybe Bush really believes his own line of crap, just like you.
November 21st, 2005 at 7:37 pmM. Ward,
By the way: The war on Iraq includes reservists in their 50’s. Have you actually checked to see if you are eligible to serve your country in the military, or is it much more convenient to sit at your computer and send others to do your warring?
November 21st, 2005 at 7:38 pmM. Ward,
Are YOU a coward? If not, when do you intend to offer your services in Iraq?
November 21st, 2005 at 7:49 pmbooth,
Good question!
Well, as you correctly stated, Japan attacked us on December 7th, 1941, it is a that point, that the United States entered World War II. I contend that we SHOULD have entered the war BEFORE that (while England was being attacked by Germany) – if we had, PERHAPS we would have been better prepared for War, and Pearl Harbor would NOT have occured…
As to Iraq, you are correct. We entered into Military Combat with Iraq because of Kuwait is a “member” of NATO, and the NATO charter calls on ALL member states to come to the aid of other member states.
After driving Iraqi forces from Kuwait (and Kuwait is THE ONLY reason that we engaged in military combat against Iraq), the CEASE-FIRE was signed. There was also no-fly-zones established to protect the minorities in Iraq, that Saddam has previously demonstrated his willingness to use WMD on.
As a part of patroling said “no-fly-zones” U.S. (and other countries) planes were, periodically, fired upon, or targeted with weapons systems (again, in violation of the cease-fire agreement)…
THAT, Sir, is why bombs were dropped…
Again, Saddam had it in HIS power, to simply COMPLY with the United Nations agreement, allow the Weapons Inspectors to do their job, and the sanctions would have been lifted, probably WITH Saddam still in power (who knows, and frankly, who cares?).
You are correct, there is NOT a direct one-to-one equivalence between Japan and Iraq, but, I guess, in one way, there is… THEY BOTH attacked another country. BOTH of which WE were willing to fight to defend…
Hope that helps…
November 21st, 2005 at 7:53 pm1Neatguy
That is one of the most clear and concise summaries of Saddams attitute and actions prior to the W war I have heard.
We all remember how it irked Bush 1 that they did not get to finish the job and saddam kept thumbing his nose at him. Remember how he used to pronounce Saddam “Sadam” which in Arabic I understand translates to “one who sodomizes”?
Saddam thumbed his nose at Bush and Bush 2 demonstrated plain old revenge tactics. Plain old get you back, and get rich doing it.
Well said
November 21st, 2005 at 7:59 pmbooth,
Sorry, I’ve not sent ANYONE anywhere.
That is for the Commander-in-chief and for Congress (BOTH of whom have decided to wage war).
Okay, to be honest, I DID sent President Bush to the White House…
See, we’re back to that “all volunteer” thing again…
NO ONE is FORCED to join the military… Not YOU, not ME, not ANYONE… That, really, is what volunteer means (it’s not that hard, is it?)…
And, Yes, I did ask, but I took the inital laughter and the pointing at the door to be a polite way of them saying NO, THANKS…
What have YOU done?
November 21st, 2005 at 8:00 pmAnd MWard, if you agree with 1neatguy that the Pearl Harbor and 911 were not the same, why did you compare the two?
I’ll tell you why you did it in here tonight. Cause you have heard your boys in DC saying it over and over….
baaaaaaaaaaaaa
November 21st, 2005 at 8:02 pmWORFEUS,
Did you get Clinton Cool-Aid Brain Freeze?
Are you suggesting that President Clinton did not drop even a single bomb in Iraq? It was ALL the Bushes? Wow… Talk about re-writing history!
Perhaps you could scroll back up to #487 and READ IT this time… There are a couple of quotes from the Clinton era, which might jog your memory (don’t worry, it’s ‘open book’).
November 21st, 2005 at 8:05 pmM. Ward,
My cowardice or bravery are not really a question here; YOU are the one who wants to kill people in places like Iraq and Afghanistan. However, since you asked, here is what I have done: I have taught reading to inner city American kids who needed help with literacy; I have personally raised thousands of dollars for hurricane relief in North Carolina and Nicaragua; I have personally raised thousands of dollars for a shelter that provides support services for battered and abused children; I have personally raised money for a college scholarship for a college in my town; I have raised money for Girl Scout troops in my community; I have worked tirelessly for political candidate who I felt represented the true American spirit of honesty and integrity; I have helped build Habitat for Humanity houses in my community; I have mentored students; I have been the director of Leadership Camps to encourage high school students to reach levels of excellence; I have raised and contributed money to fight cancer, spousal abuse, polio and other causes. I have saved lives after car accidents. I know that these things don’t qualify for medals, not do I seek them. But I do seek a world where people of values put their lives where their values are. Talk is cheap. If you believe in something, you will find a way to live up to, or die, for your values. If you really want to serve your country in Iraq, or Afghanistan, or even in your own community, you will find a way.
November 21st, 2005 at 8:20 pmOh and when the big one starts, which will be soon unless we suddenly change direction and convince China and Russia, the EU and the rest of the planet that we were just drunk or something for the last 4 years, when that one comes, we will ALL be forced into the military.
Keep telling yourself that “china would not dare attack us”. And Russia’s military is all disbanded and disorganized. Forget their recent first EVER joint training excercise. Forget we are in violation of about half a dozen UN and International laws and regulations, forget we are in violation of international human rights policies, forget that we have waged war against a country that did not attack us and bombed civillian populations in the process, forget that the EU is investigating us now, forget the fact that we could easily be called a “rogue nation”.
But if you can’t see the difference between what we had to do in WW2, if you can’t see the differnce between the Gulf War and this invasion of Iraq then you are gone. Out there. In the happy candy coated christian caramel 3rd riech heaven, where evil action performed by good men are good. And good men who perform evil actions are still good. In Judeo terms, you are a schmuck.
Just keep on spreading democracy, or whatever it is you are spreading, in these small, defensless Arab nations. No one will notice. No one will care. Human rights shmites. Torture? Define torture?
No one will dare challenge us right? Screw em all, their either for us, or against us.
And hey if they do try to oppose us,then we can NUKE EM! Yea, thats the ticket. Well NUKE EM. NUKE EM ALL.
Of course, China’s looking pretty big right now…….after Iraq and all……..
nahh,,,we can take em. Bring it on!
November 21st, 2005 at 8:21 pmAnd if you are comparing the few “retaliatory” bombs we dropped on their AA batterys that were firing on our planes to the mass genocide you and your goosestepping comrades have committed in Iraq, well, next time I would break the pills in half.
November 21st, 2005 at 8:25 pmSee the great lie here is that guys like M Ward try to convince everyone that if we are against the war, we are pacifists.
Some of us probably are, but most of us are likely not. I am not a pacifist. I believe in a strong military, a strong defense. And I believe the greatest generation was my fathers generation. What he, and his 3 brothers did, one of them did it in Bastogne, along with thousands and thousands of other men serving here and overseas, what they did saved the world.
I believe that with every fiber of my being. They are hero’s to me. Gods.
I also believe that you and those who think like you, those of you who would adopt many of the tactics of the Nazi pigs, who would invade small countries with secrets and lies, bomb their people, burn them, round up their young men in the middle of the night, throw them into cattle trucks with plastic bags over their heads, beat them, inprison them for years without any charges or trials, torture them, rape them, murder them, I believe that you thugs, you feckless thugs, I believe that you desecrate everything they ever fought for, everything they ever stood for and everything so many of them died for.
Yhat’s what I believe
November 21st, 2005 at 8:58 pmNaturally, the common people don’t want war, but they can always be brought to the bidding of their leaders. Tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and endangering the country. It works the same in every country.â€
Reichsmarschall Herman Goering
November 21st, 2005 at 9:01 pmAt the Nuremberg Trials
If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of
fighting a foreign enemy. President James Madison
November 21st, 2005 at 9:03 pm“The power of the Executive to cast a man into prison without formulating any charge known to the law, and particularly to deny him the judgement of his peers, is in the highest degree odious and is the foundation of all totalitarian government whether Nazi or Communist.”
Winston Churchill
November 21st, 2005 at 9:05 pmNovember 21, 1943
The horror that hit New York city on 911 took the lives of innocent people from many different countries who happened to be in the towers that morning. New York is a long way from where I live, but the ripple effect was immediately noticeable. It is common to see the vapor trails of numerous commercial airliners in the sky above at any one time here. For days afterwards there was nothing, and it was an eerie feeling to know the reason for it. Thousands of miles away and the tangible effects of that madness were instantly apparent. We truly are a global community. As the shock of that day wore off, it was replaced by the need to find those responsible and bring them to justice (and there was a sense of vengeance admittedly). The attack was aimed not at the citizens of the USA, but at the symbols of american power and influence. The 3000 or so deaths that day were merely what we so easily refer to as ‘collateral damage’, the world’s way of killing innocent people without the requisate guilt that should accompany such an atrosity. The USA had the support of the world. We trusted that your massive intelligence assets would identify the people responsible. But almost immediately things began to unravel. While I thought there were no vapor trails at least over North America, it appears there was at least one very significant one carrying the Bin Laden family back to Saudi Arabia. How the hell could that be possible? The first hint of skepticism that this thing is a genuine attempt to see justice done. The last straw for me personally was President Bush’s revelation that he didn’t spend much time thinking about Osama Bin Laden. I mean this is the guy generally believed to be responsible for this shit and Bush has more important things to do? Is it any wonder that global support has shrunk to a coalition of the willing (and you gotta wonder if there were enticements offered to some of these nations to sign on) and now only about 36% of americans continue to support this. And yet it continues. Unbelievable.
November 21st, 2005 at 10:00 pmYou are right 1Neatguy. It is unbelieveable.
In fact has anyone considered how ignorant we would be as a country to listen to these guys about what will happen if we leave Iraq? These are the knuckleheads that got EVERYTHING wrong about what would happen if we went into Iraq.
They or anyone in here has NO idea what will happen if we leave anymore than they knew what would happen if we went in. You got it wrong the first time, so I would be a fool to listen to you this time.
Whats that old saying? Oh yea,
“fool me once, shame on,,you, fool me twice,,,er,,,,uh,,,can’t get fooled again”.
November 21st, 2005 at 11:10 pmMean Jean Schmidt Lied to The People of Ohio, She is a Typical Republican
I could not make this shit up if I tired. I was looking for Mean Jean Schmidt first floor speech, because she said some stuff that made me fall out of my chair.
I did not have to find it because she helped me on her own web siteÂ…
From Mean JeanÂ…
November 21st, 2005 at 11:18 pmM. Ward,
YAWN! I am so bored over reading your incessant dribble. Why don’t you acknowledge what WORFEUS gave you and stop being so jealous of his factfinding skills.
November 21st, 2005 at 11:59 pmOkay, I want to try my hand at a little Rovesque smearing. Ready? Did you hear the rumor that Rep. Jeanne Schmidt was caught by Hamilton County Sherriff’s deputies orally servicing State Rep. Big Bopper in an alley behind a Napa Auto Parts store? And did you hear that both of them are reputed members of a satanist cult that practices human sacrifice, preferably with stolen Third World babies? And did you hear that Rep. Schmidt is so skinny because she has annoying bowel syndrome? Didja? Didja?
November 22nd, 2005 at 12:23 amThanks, Worfeus, for your thoughtful comments. It appears that JB Stoned and MWard are simply the lackeys of the radical right who cannot accept the fact that they are part of a withering minority in this country. Thank God Ms. Schmidt finally revealed the desperation that the Republican Party has reached.
Comment by booth — November 21, 2005 @ 6:37 pm
~~~~~
#
M. Ward,
YAWN! I am so bored over reading your incessant dribble. Why don’t you acknowledge what WORFEUS gave you and stop being so jealous of his factfinding skills.
Comment by JIMBO — November 21, 2005 @ 11:59 pm
~~~~~
Dufeus, Bimbo, John Wilkes, et al….
FACT FINDING…????
I see.
Perhaps THIS letter, sent to the White House and MANY other locations on Veterans Day, 2002 will complicate things a bit for those of you who claim I am some kind of “Bushie”…???
~~~~~
To Whom It May Concern:
I, James Bradley Stone, as a Project 112 & Project SHAD Veteran, United States Citizen, and Montana State Voter, do hereby request punitive action against the Departments of Defense and Veterans Affairs because of their blatant disregard for the welfare and their service of the American people. These Federal Bureaucracies continue to ignore the lawful oversight of the Congress as well. They must be brought under control and made to perform according to their lawful charters.
The DoD and VA are purposely blockading the declassification and reporting of pertinent data that would result in Medical, Compensation & Pension actions for thousands of veterans. Project SHAD veterans have waited 30 to 40 years to receive relief for the physical, mental and sociological damages they have suffered because of their involuntary participation in wantonly unlawful and carelessly executed ABC Warfare experiments from 1962 to 1972. There is no excuse for the DoD & VA’s overlooking crucial health concerns such as cross-contamination, non-existent safety equipment and training, and ineffectual decontamination. They continue to operate under the callous presumption that because they do not choose to consider these factors, they simply do not exist. It does not require medical or legal expertise to determine that to be patently false.
The VA’s presumption that there are no long-term consequences for SHAD veterans is a huge lie. The facts and evidence do not support their statements. Sadly, Project SHAD has already caused severe ailments and the premature deaths of many veterans and their children. SHAD survivors and their descendants continue to suffer a multitude of untreated physical and mental ailments only because it serves the convenience of the Federal Government. Relieving the consciences of the agents who have caused these circumstances by authorizing their ongoing malfeasance is a crime.
If there was no danger from our exposure to highly carcinogenic and mutagenic Chemical & Biological Warfare Agents, Nuclear Contaminants and Radiation, then why has the Congress authorized the President to wage war on other nations that seek to utilize the very same substances? The notion that we are merely expendable ciphers when our nation is carrying out an immense international campaign to rid the world of those who would “gas their own people” is ludicrous!
On behalf of all SHAD Veterans, their families, descendants and survivors, I demand the immediate dismissal and replacement of those who have flagrantly violated numerous International and United States Laws by creating and then denying the existence of these programs. By delaying and distorting the facts regarding Project SHAD & 112, these agents of the United States prolong serious injury by having used honorable veterans as Human Test Rats and then denying their claims for medical attention and monetary compensation.
SHAD Veterans have repeatedly suffered humiliation and degradation at the hands of VA Administrators, Adjudicators, and Physicians who seek only to deny and delay their lawful claims on the basis of faulty and incomplete data from the DoD and improper execution of their duties. No reasonable party would deny that we have honored our commitment to keep the secrets of Special Operations and that now we deserve the TRUTH, RELIEF and COMPENSATION for our involvement in Project SHAD.
Do not delay. Now that the Federal Government is making a weak effort to document what we have said for decades, the needs of SHAD Veterans MUST be addressed. Otherwise many more will suffer untimely deaths and their families will be left with the painful remembrance that their Country has deserted them.
Sincerely,
J.B. Stone
~~~~~
Like I said, come to ProjectSHAD.us and STRUT YOUR STUFF…..!!!
I’m sure your “revelations” about SCUD Missiles, Bio-Chemical WMD’s, and the all around efficacy of the Democratic Party in keeping pace with its long-held Political Prisoners will have folks in STITCHES….
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=gao+report%2C+%22project+shad%22&btnG=Search
Now, I KNOW it stresses your shared brain cell to conceive of new “ideas”, but you MAY be “wrong”….
No, really.
~~~~~
Oh, and SPARE me the Leftist Marching Orders, heard it all before…..had the e-ticket ride, got the personalized coffee mug and 8-track tape….
I was [no shit] IN the VVAW [although rather briefly]when John Effing Kerry was at the helm….[I still have the newspaper image of ME attending a "demonstration" at DU]
UNTIL I realized that the rumors we heard in Denver were REAL….and they they really WERE contemplating ASSASSINATING U.S. Congressional members to “make their point”….!!!!
Don’t BELIEVE me…???….no sweat…do some “fact finding” about the FBI investigation into those matters.
~~~~~~
Read the text of HR 4259 before you go off half-cocked…or “half handled” as Dufeus would say….
BEFORE you further embarrass yourselves.
or not…
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:H.R.4259.IH:
Of course, I’ve “only” been watching the developments around which you dance so lightly in your loafers for three DECADES now….so, what would I know…????
November 22nd, 2005 at 12:46 amDo TRY to pay attention…
Gotta run. Seems I have to tape a half-hour of live radio tomorrow morning with the BBC for their upcoming Bio-Chemical Weapons DOCUMENTARY which will air in Mid-February.
But, if you haven’t the patience to vilify my life experience later…then go to the PBS website, “POV” and look for my clips under the topic “The Fire Next Time” in THEIR documentary.
You see…..there IS “life outside the InterNet”…
No, really.
And, if you’re too lazy to take in part in THAT….then spare me your obviously self-indulgent remarks. I’ve met plenty of poseurs and cowards….
Come to think of it….they’re often the SAME people.
Imagine that.
If you get bored with THAT, then look up my articles at Newsmax, Sierra Times, and Eco-Logic
dip shit.
November 22nd, 2005 at 1:10 amJB Stone,
I commend your efforts on behalf of Veterans. Having worked closely with the VA on a project designed to enhance the timeliness of veterans benifits claims (The Original Highway One Project), I can appreciate any efforts to improve services to Veterans.
That being said, what does that have to do with the price of bakla in Bagdhad?
I have been watching events unfold for 4 and a half decades, and nothing you have said, nothing justifies our incursion into Iraq. Nothing. You and I both remember pictures of those scuds sitting there, undetonated. Remember that people? Now I don’t have the exact figures, perhaps you do.
But I don’t need them, because once again like most republicans seem to do lately, you can’t see the forest for the trees. A SCUD or SS-1 as it is designated, is a short range missle, about 180 miles maximum. As you may be aware, Iraq is farther than 180 miles from US soil. In other words, “if they shoot them at us, the little missles will fall into the sea”.
You see, I was merely trying to make a point, that is, that their military was about as capable of launching an offensive attack on US soil as you are of launching a coherent argument in here for killing Iraqi’s.
Like I said, it was like putting Mike Tyson in the ring with Don Knott’s.
I will check out your site however.
November 22nd, 2005 at 1:12 amAnd BTW, since you like calling people cowards, I will be happy to debate you live on the air on your little talk show, anytime. Just tell me what number to call.
Funny how you guys always revert to the bully tactics when the truth hits you sqaure in your big, fat mouths.
In the words of you leader, bring it on.
November 22nd, 2005 at 1:16 amBTW Genius, you call people Dipshit and you comment on PBS? Wow. You must be really smart.
Smart people always resort to profanity when they are angry.
Or was that the other people….????
November 22nd, 2005 at 1:21 amOne more thing.
Cowards support wars that they won’t go fight in.
Don’t tell us how tough you are, go fight in it. Then well at least believe your conviction.
You know, my favorite TV detective was Columbo. I loved him. He wore scraggily clothes, he was not highly educated, he didn’t have titles and he never was published, he was just a lil ole detective.
And what I loved about him was that to him, everyone was the same. He investigated actors, doctors, laywers, policemen, authors, congressmen, journalists, and to him, they were all the same. A murderer was just a murderer. Plain and simple. It did not matter to him what they did. If they murdered or took part in murder, down they went.
See I don’t give a shit what you’ve done or who you are. I don’t think anyone in here does. If you support mass murder, then you are bad.
Don’t think Nuremburg can’t happen again.
November 22nd, 2005 at 1:36 amProviding you more info from Southern Ohio on Bubp. (And, yes, Bubp is more of a joke than Schmidt.)
As for the relationship between Schmidt and Bubp, Schmidt ran for the state senate when Bubp was running for state rep. The two of them were connected at the hip. Schmidt lost that election, only to come back and win a crowded special primary for Congress. Loss one election and win the next bigger one. Sad.
As for Bubp, Bubp has never served in harms way – anywhere. In fact, he has never served outside of CONUS. Bubp is the biggest hypocrite when it comes to the military. He talks and brags about the military, yet he truly knows so little. (Those who have to talk so much about it, have never really done it.)
Bubp runs around constantly in his full dress military uniform, even to political events. Look at
http://home.fuse.net/jbecker/TheBeckerReport/TheBeckerReportVolumeI_Issue_VII.htm
“September 30, 2004. You should have seen Colonel Danny Bubp in his full dress Marine uniform. The white gloves, spit shined shoes, and chest full of metals were very impressive. We were at a ‘Party for The President’ in Batavia.” Bubp has fooled so many people.
He also has claimed to be a Naval War College graduate, but he is not. He took a 2-week course at the college as part of his reserve duty; nothing more, nothing less. Yet he misrepresents that he is a “graduate”.
He also wrapped himself in the Ten Commandments in his Bible-belt county. But as for his support of the Ten Commandments, the running joke in his home of Adams County is that “for Danny, 8 out of 10 isn’t that bad”.
And as for his views of marriage, he is divorced (see previous paragraph). Bubp had his entire divorce records sealed and fought efforts to open them up. See
http://www.sconet.state.oh.us/rod/newpdf/0/2004/2004-ohio-4952.pdf
(There wasn’t anything significant in them, although the figures on the tax return appeared to be somewhat low from Bubp’s law practice.)
Schmidt needs to be out of Congress and Bubp out of the state house – a concerted effort is going to be needed. Just as Bubp talks the talk but doesn’t do the walk, what are we going to do when viable candidates challenge Schmidt and Bubp (I don’t care if they are Republicans, the Republican is going to win Schmidt’s and Bubp’s district).
November 22nd, 2005 at 1:43 amCowards expect others to risk their lives for their freedom while the coward poses as a leader. If Ms. Schmidt had the courage of her convictions, she would join the Marine Corps.
November 22nd, 2005 at 8:57 am[...] During Rep. Jean Schmidt’s (R-OH) shameful attack on Rep. Jack Murtha (D-PA) on the House Floor she said she was communicating a message from Marine Colonel Danny Bubp: A few minutes ago I received a call from Colonel Danny Bubp, Ohio Representative from the 88th district in the House of Representatives. He asked me to send Congress a message: Stay the course. He also asked me to send Congressman Murtha a message, that cowards cut and run, Marines never do. Danny and the rest of America and the world want the assurance from this body – that we will see this through. [...]
November 22nd, 2005 at 9:16 amJean Schmidt REALLY does represent the down home country vote in Ohio. What does that say about Ohio? They gave us Bush’s second term, Congressman Ney, and the coin scandalized governorship, what do we expect. Don’t be fooled, she could win re-election in the “Cucumber Incident” state. She’s just one more reason we should help that state secede from our union, then attack it!
November 22nd, 2005 at 9:27 amPlease don’t make the conservative mistake of presenting a false premise or conjecture – as factual.
November 22nd, 2005 at 10:00 amI am from Ohio and in no way adhere to the comments of this woman. I do hope that she and the rest of her team keep talking and showing themselves for what they are … clear up until the next election.
Lets be careful now. That witch might send her flying monkeys after us. Hopefully Hackett’s loss to that PIECE OF SCHMIDT will allow him to take the Senate seat.
November 22nd, 2005 at 10:02 amMaligning Murtha
By Howard Kurtz
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, November 22, 2005; 9:57 AM
It is an age-old device in politics, making a personal slam sound more high-minded by attributing it to someone else.
Typical formulation: ” There are those who say that Congressman X is a gutless wonder.” Not that I’m saying it, I’m just faithfully repeating what some other critic said. Or: ” I was talking to someone just the other day who questioned whether Congressman X is a gutless wonder.” Or: ” Now I don’t agree with those who say Congressman X is a gutless wonder, but he does owe us some answers. . . . ”
These are all ways of getting the gutless wonder thing out there, and politicians who use these tactics know exactly what they’re doing.
Which brings me to Jean Schmidt and John Murtha.
Schmidt, the recently elected Republican congresswoman from Ohio, has every right to take on Murtha over his let’s-get-the-troops-out stance on Iraq. She has every right to attack the Pennsylvania Democrat if she so chooses. But when she attacks him by attributing the denunciation to some colonel, let’s be clear: she’s still attacking him. The device of attributing it to someone else is just that, a device used by professional politicians.
By the way, after both Cheney and McClellan ripped Murtha, Bush used a version of the same technique: “I heard somebody say, well, maybe so-and-so is not patriotic because they disagree with my position. I totally reject that thought.” Somebody ? So-and-so ? Who could he be referring to? The administration has apparently made the calculation that attacking a decorated Vietnam veteran who spent 37 years in the Marines was not the wisest political strategy.
Anyway, Schmidt’s defenders say she didn’t realize Murtha had been a Marine. But her Ohio nickname will probably stick, thanks to this NYT profile:
“She grew up in the rough-and-tumble of a family auto racing business, went through concealed-weapons training, and bears a local nickname seldom applied to shrinking violets: ‘Mean Jean.’”
And who was the Murtha-basher she was quoting? HuffPost contributor Max Blumenthal has done some digging:
“On Friday, freshman Republican Rep. ‘Mean Jean’ Schmidt mounted one of the fiercest, most personal assaults Congress has witnessed since Preston Brooks caned Charles Sumner to a bloody pulp in 1856. The target of Schmidt’s attack was Rep. John Murtha, a Vietnam vet who had just introduced a resolution calling for a withdrawal of US troops from Iraq within 6 months (which included several measures designed to ensure regional stability upon pullout).
“‘A few minutes ago I received a call from Colonel Danny Bubp, Ohio Representative from the 88th district in the House of Representatives. He asked me to send Congress a message: Stay the course,’ Schmidt declared from her lectern. ‘He also asked me to send Congressman Murtha a message, that cowards cut and run, Marines never do.’
“By employing Bubp, a Marine reservist, as her surrogate attack dog, Schmidt sought to give the impression that the military rank-and-file overwhelmingly deplored Murtha’s resolution. Murtha may have been a Marine a long, long time ago, but he doesn’t understand the harsh realities of the post-9/11 world. But that tough-talking paragon of the modern warrior, Colonel Danny Bubp, whoever he is, sure as hell does. Or so Schmidt would have us believe.
“A quick glance at Bubp’s background reveals him to be a low-level right-wing operative who has spent more time in the past ten years engaged in symbolic Christian right crusades than he has battling terrorist evil-doers. And throughout his career, Bubp’s destiny has been inextricably linked with Schmidt’s. Bubp may be a Marine, but his view of Murtha as a ‘coward’ is colored by naked political ambition. He is nothing more than cheap camouflage cover for the GOP’s latest Swift-Boat campaign.
“March 1999 marked the beginning of a brilliant career. It was then that Bubp became pro-bono legal counsel for Adams County for the Ten Commandments, an ad-hoc Ohio group formed to keep 10 Commandments monuments displayed in local public schools after the ACLU filed a lawsuit demanding their removal. Bubp was assisted by a Who’s Who of Christian right leaders, including James Dobson, Don Wildmon, Judge Roy Moore and Jay Sekulow.”
I think we’ve established that he’s not exactly neutral. Where was the MSM on this?
November 22nd, 2005 at 10:10 am“I have been watching events unfold for 4 and a half decades”
Right….I’m SURE you’ve been glued to the tube, looking over your mommy’s tit.
YOU, however were NOT involved in any of what I describe. Not that FIRST HAND info would matter.
You’re more enamored of your FIST hand and your handle.
But, nonetheless….you have been drawn out.
And, the “page view ticker” is spinning nicely over at FreeDominion.CA, where my online fact file is stored in the “Bio-Chemical Warfare” Forum and includes very important information on GWI, Agent Orange, and some other pithy matters.
You are, as always, the first to go for the low blow.
~~~~~~~
543.
Cowards expect others to risk their lives for their freedom while the coward poses as a leader. If Ms. Schmidt had the courage of her convictions, she would join the Marine Corps.
Comment by Steve A Branch — November 22, 2005 @ 8:57 am
And, YOU have exactly what for military experience…???
POSEURS all…..
~~~~~~
Like I SAID, C’mon over to ProjectSHAD.US and tell us all how it REALLY is. I can’t wait for you to kick some REAL butt….as opposed to your normal course of activities thereabouts.
“#
And BTW, since you like calling people cowards, I will be happy to debate you live on the air on your little talk show, anytime. Just tell me what number to call. ”
Well, NONE of the “major” talk shows will even approach the subject matter…but, you CAN call in to POW-MIA Radio out of Denver and embarass yourselves there. Be sure to say “Hi” to Rod Utech, the show host, for me…as HE’s a peripheral SHAD Veteran as well.
As for this morning’s taping, be SURE to call
+44 161 244 3932
http://www.bbc.co.uk/
and dissuade them to cancel the two half-hour segments they have coming up. You see, they need someone like YOU with “all the answers” and no thought content whatsoever to set them right.
~~~~~~
You haven’t looked at ANY of the links I provided….HAVE YOU….????
tsk, tsk.
OH, and I’m not “quoting” PBS…..they quoted ME.
POV – The Fire Next Time . Film Synopsis | PBS
Over a stormy two-year period, ‘The Fire Next Time’ follows a deeply … means that
people like sawmill supervisor Scott Daumiller and his friend JB Stone, …
http://www.pbs.org/pov/pov2005/thefirenexttime/about.html – 28k – Cached – Similar pages
POV – The Fire Next Time . Talking Back . Kalispell Speaks Out | PBS
Kalispell resident JB Stone. “I’ve written lots and lots of letters to the …
What’s Your POV? Share your reactions to “The Fire Next Time” on the Talking …
http://www.pbs.org/pov/pov2005/thefirenexttime/talking_kalispell.html – 38k – Cached – Similar pages
~~~~~~
Speaking of PBS…if you HURRY, you can get John Rubin to derail HIS upcoming Documentary on Bio-Chemical Warfare. I’m SURE he’d love to have YOUR input.
tee, hee.
~~~~~~~~
Failing THAT, why not write in to the Daily Inter Lake and set THEM straight…???
The Daily Inter Lake
Locally, Navy veteran JB Stone has been a tireless crusader on behalf of himself … The Daily Inter Lake 727 East Idaho Street / Kalispell, Montana 59901 …
http://www.dailyinterlake.com/articles/2005/11/11/opinion/opinion01.txt – Similar pages
Daily Inter Lake 11/11/05
The Daily Inter Lake. Man sees hope in probe of chemical weapons testing … JB Stone was aboard the USS Granville S. Hall in 1962 when the vessel was …
http://www.cwwg.org/di11.11.05.html – 6k – Cached – Similar pages
Your opportunities don’t stop THERE, however…
NewsMax.com: Commentmax Archives
… The death notice appeared in the Daily Inter Lake Press in Montana. … Journalist JB Stone writes from Whitefish, Montana: “This $1.6 billion a year component of …
newsmax.com/commentmax/get.pl?a=2000/10/2/210750 – 25k – Supplemental Result -
Projectshad.US
… for SHAD veterans By Jim Mann The Daily Inter Lake After being part of military
chemical and biological tests in the 1960s, both Ron Speer and JB Stone say they …
www2.projectshad.us:81/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=38 – 38k – Supplemental Result – Cached – Similar pages
SwiftVets.com :: View topic – Kedwards Kampain Just Blowed Up REAL …
JB Stone USN 1967-70 ETN-2, Project SHAD, USS Granville S. Hall, 1969 … I had
THIS printed on the Editorial Page of the Daily Inter Lake, Kalispell, …
http://www.swiftvets.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=124117& – 224k – Cached – Similar pages
Human Experimentation
Daily Inter Lake, 12/1/03 “After being part of military chemical and biological
tests in the 1960s, both Ron Speer and JB Stone say they’ve lived with a …
naffoundation.org/Human%20Experimentation.htm – 48k – Cached – Similar pages
Key Issues: Nuclear Weapons: Issues: Health & Environment: Article …
Toxic Tugs – Public Poisons by JB Stone – 04/17/02. … Open-air tests were
carried out in the Utah desert using Q-Fever and other “simulants” to study …
http://www.nuclearfiles.org/…/nuclear-weapons/issues/health-environment/article-jb-stone_2002-04-17.htm – 17k – Cached – Similar pages
Desert Dispatch newspaper – Barstow, California
The Desert Dispatch is a daily newspaper serving the Barstow, … HESPERIA –
Any resemblance between JB Stone’s life since discharge and “One Flew Over the …
http://www.desertdispatch.com/2004/107564933598003.html – 11k – Cached – Similar pages
…..GEE,
It looks like you’ve got your WORK cut out for you…refuting all THAT.
Let me know when you’re done.
Because, while YOU’ve been here, obsessing about the news….
I’ve been out and about MAKING the news happen.
It appears you’ve been HAD….!!!
Bwaaaaahahahahahohohohohheeheehee……
CHUMP.
November 22nd, 2005 at 10:18 amNews Flash! The Iraqi people want the US to set a time table to get out of Iraq. RIGHT ON! RIGHT ON!
November 22nd, 2005 at 10:48 amNews Flash Mary Poppins! If you set a time table, the terrorists know exactly how long they have to hold on! In that case, why drag it out? Load the troops up tonight!! We can get out of the terrorists’ way and save American lives!
November 22nd, 2005 at 11:35 amCathy,
You’re absolutely right! The time has come to STOP honoring the sacrifices made by all the dead Americans (and Iraqis) by getting more of them killed. If it was wrong to invade,(and it was), then it’s wrong to stay! This so-called “war on terror” is a sham perpetrated by cowards who shirked their duty when they had a chance to “fight for the freedoms” they purportedly care so much about.
And these inbred Bushite worshippers would have the rest of us “thinking” Americans believe that by “staying the course” we’ll eventually destroy all the terrorists and make Iraq the cornerstone of democracy in the “new Bush-Cheney Middle-East”, as well as make America safe from terrorism…and pigs can fly! All we’re doing is killing more people needlessly, making more money for Bush-Cheney- Halliburton et al, and delaying an inevitable Iraqi civil war that will divide this hell hole into three seperate states (one very friendly to Iran)… go figure! And as for, “fightin’ ‘em over there t’ keep from fightin’ ‘em over here,” how many of you can tell a Mexican illegal crossing the porous US borders with Mexico and Canada from Al Qaeda? I thought so. Let’s get the hell out now! Cut and run hell, this is called cutting one’s losses, and while we’re at it let’s cut Bush and Cheney loose too…Fools!
November 22nd, 2005 at 12:01 pmCathy The Iraqis have asked us to leave. What more do you need.
November 22nd, 2005 at 12:39 pm[...] It turns out that Ohio’s “Mean” Jean Schmidt lied misquoted her colleague in reference to Rep. John Murtha. [...]
November 22nd, 2005 at 12:56 pmJean,Jean,Jean…..Shame,shame,shame–shame,shame!!! You need to have a child serving your country right now. Your facial actions were as ugly as your words. You looked like a AL-QAIDA cun_ !!! Please stick your head up your ass and fight for air and while you are at it RESIGN!!!
November 22nd, 2005 at 12:56 pmYou know you got a big mouth JB Stone. A real big mouth. Keep talking about peoples mothers and one day someone’s gonna close it for you. What’s the good book say? He who lives by the sword will ………
I will say it again. This ain’t about me, and it sure ain’t about you. It’s about the murder you and the cowards and thugs who sit around and pat each other on the ass and tell themselves how brave they are, are spreading across the globe.
I have probably done more in my 45 years than that bb sitting in your cranium could comprehend, but my life is not on showcase here. Nor is yours stupid.
It’s about the war stupid. And as for all your bs sites and your bs suppositions, you still have not said one coherint thing to support the wanton murder of so many Iraqi people. Murder is murder there adolph. And nothing you say is gonna change that.
Your day is coming slappy. Coming soon. Just keep running your big fat stinking mouth.
November 22nd, 2005 at 1:22 pmBTW,
I did read your articles, the ones that werent’ dead links anyway. (Check your nuke article, it’s a dead link)
After reading them I can honestly say I am sorry the military used you for a lab rat.
Other than that though, all of those links, and topics had no bearing on the war.
But hey, republicans ALWAYS try to change the topic when the truth hits too close to home. All that had NOTHING to do with why we are killing Iraqi’s.
But I am sorry to hear the government made a lab rat out of you.
How’s that working out for ya?
November 22nd, 2005 at 1:59 pmMedical problems mount for SHAD veterans by Jim Mann
Daily Inter Lake, 12/1/03
“After being part of military chemical and biological tests in the 1960s, both Ron Speer and J. B. Stone say they’ve lived with a lifetime of health problems. Both men served on the USS Granville S. Hall, a ship assigned to bio-chemical warfare testing in the 1960s.”
It seems given your own experience with these kinds of weapons that you would be first in line to protest the further use of them by anyone, for any reason, especially your own country, as they would seem to be responsible for your own unfortunate first hand knowledge of the effects. I may be misunderstanding your position regarding Iraq. Are you saying the invasion was necessary, even with highly questionable evidence, to ensure that Saddam didn’t have what is now known he no longer had? Is it okay that during the occupation that was the logical next phase after the invasion that napalm-like weapons were used in Falujah apparently to force resisting Iraqi’s into the open? What is the military value of a depleted uranium weapon on a civilian population when trying to impose democracy and a love of freedom? How does carpet bombing actually work and is possible to explain this to a child, maybe a child in Afghanistan or Iraq?
Does your experience in the military still allow you to believe today that there is anyone apart from the family and friends of each individual soldier, that honestly “supports the troops”? Your government hides the caskets of returning KIA’s. How effective is the years, or in many cases, lifetimes of recovery from injuries after returning from spreading democracy overseas? Does spending time at a VA hospital (”Let us help you get back on your foot”) ever return people to their pre-war selves?
OH, and I’m not “quoting†PBS…..they quoted ME.
And when PBS quotes you is this the wisdom they are seeking:
Because, while YOU’ve been here, obsessing about the news….
I’ve been out and about MAKING the news happen.
It appears you’ve been HAD….!!!
Bwaaaaahahahahahohohohohheeheehee……
CHUMP.
Yeah, I think I understand your point. Chemical and biological war is hell. Now back to the VA hospital with you.
November 22nd, 2005 at 2:09 pmGOOD GOLLY!
WHERE DO YOU GUYS GET ALL THE TIME TO CARRY ON THESE DISCOURSES? I FEEL GUILTY JUST TAKING THE TIME TO READ THEM.
FRED
November 22nd, 2005 at 2:52 pmYou are right FRED. I for one have WAY too much time.
LoL
November 22nd, 2005 at 3:48 pmAm I on the right planet?
Somehow I have been magically teleported to a planet where its okay to dodge the draft via student deferments, get into office through vote fraud, then lecture ex-military people about their cowardice.
This GOP definitely twists the whole concept of reality.
November 22nd, 2005 at 4:11 pmI don’t know Steve, I thought maybe I was just drunk or something for the last 4 years, and I would eventually wake up from this nightmare sometime.
You mean we really did invade a soverign nation that did not attack us, bomb their cities and civilians, imprison tens of thousands of their young men, torture them,,,,,murder them,,,?
uh oh……someones gonna get it….
November 22nd, 2005 at 4:28 pmYou know this original blog was about Schmidts comments on Mr. Murtha’s plan.
We all lost the point. Me too. The rebuplicans are great at getting everyone who does not agree with them to argue over topics that have nothing to do with the original subject. It skews our perceptions.
There is one GLARING point we have all forgotten. That is Mr. Murtha’s plan itself. It is NOT to cut and run. It is NOT a withdrawal. It IS a REDEPLOYMENT.
Here let me say it again. It IS a REDEPLOYMENT.
Redeploying the troops out of harms way does several things.
1. It takes them OUT of harms way
2. It removes the precense of the troops from Iraqi soil, lessing the fire in the insurgents rhetoric and decreasing support for thier cause
3. It gives the Iraqi people back their soverignity, and dignity, making them feel that they have control over their destinys again, instead being told what to do by 19 year old foriegners.
4. It puts the pressure to take control of their country sqaurely on the backs of the Iraqi people. Humans show amazing resolve when they have too, and an amazing lack thereof, when they don’t.
5. It shows the world that we are not their to occupy the country or steal their oil.
6. With Mr. Murtha’s plan, the Iraqi’s are not left alone. If they need our help for anything they cannot handle themselves, they simply pick up the phone. A quick response strike force will be only minutes away, ready to assist the Iraqi army with anything it needs.
Mr. Murtha’s plan is a stroke of genius, brilliant in it’s simplicty. In fact, it is really the only option at the point.
But Republicans get democrats and other amongst us to focus on anything but the a good idea. The facts are that Mr. Murtha’s plan has the best chance of success compared to anything else. It is the Democrats plan, and the republicans have succesfully taken the focus OFF of it, by having their little peice of Schmidt call Mr. Murtha a coward.
Why did she agree to do it? Think of it as a new pledge’s initiation. But it worked. Here we are talking about whether a 37 year veteran of the Marine Corps, bloodied thrice for his country in battle, reciepient of the Bronze Star for bravery in combat, were discussing whether he’s a coward.
When are we going to debate the PLAN and not the MAN???
Looks like shitty schmidty did her job well. Nice going pledge.
November 22nd, 2005 at 5:05 pmShe is just a typical American woman if you ask me. THANK GOD I married a woman from elsewhere!!!
November 22nd, 2005 at 6:05 pmSo, if we need money in our checking account to pay our bills, BUT we “redeploy” our money to, say, our savings account, all those checks we sent will be as worthless as Mr. Murtha’s suggestion…
November 22nd, 2005 at 6:35 pmThe Republican spin machine of Karl Rove will do what ever it needs to do. This is just another dispicable act by a desperate administration. I hope all of you independents and moderates that voted for these unsavory characters are satisfied with their record!!!
November 22nd, 2005 at 6:46 pmIt is time to bring our heroes home, they have done enough. Remember President Bush delcared mission accomplised more than a year ago.
What a nice collection of liberal wacko comments. It’s truly amazing how many of them reflect the modern Democratic Party’s mode of operation–out shout anyone who opposes you, and assasinate their character. I guess it’s simply too much for those with blind loyalty and misguided passion to say, “I disagree with you, and here’s why.” you know–meaningful discussion. Jean Schmidt only cut through the crap and exposed John Murtha’s resolution for what it is–a cut and run policy. I know, I know, your delicate liberal sensibilities are always offended when someone says it like it is. Feel free to bash me as well.
November 22nd, 2005 at 7:10 pmHey M Ward. At least you are debating the Plan now, and not the Man.
Let me see if I understand your objection correctly. Because I want to understand your absolute opposition to anything other than letting our soldiers be bomb fodder in the cities and towns of Iraq.
You are now asserting that our military is not capable of launching surgical, strategic quick response strikes from the air?
Thats the best you got?
See, this is why they never want to debate the plan, and always go after the man.
November 22nd, 2005 at 7:11 pmAnd Tatreau, you haven’t “said” anything yet, other that than to attack Mr. Murtha and his plan with your little catch phrase, “cut-n-run”. Hey maybe that could be a good hair salon name.
As for facts, you don’t seem to want to address them. The facts like, we are not talking about leaving the region, only getting the troops out of the direct line of fire day in and day out.
Launching battlefield operations from a strategic location will allow the Iraqi’s to take control of their country, and still have our support when needed.
Just read my bullet points above on this plan. Talk to those.
See, you guys that want to tell all of us lilly livered liberals what will happen if we redeploy the troops, are the SAME guys who told us what would happen if we went into Iraq.
You got it wrong then and now you want to predict what will happen if we pull out.
I say support the troops. Get them out of harms way. We are needlessly sacrificing 4 a day and for what?
You want to keep sacrificing the troops, we want to save them, and STILL support the Iraqi people. We believe we can. You believe we can’t.
Your God apparently demands blood sacrifice. Our God just requires us to use our brains.
November 22nd, 2005 at 7:22 pmA quick note on training the Iraqi’s.
We have been training the Iraqi’s for years now. In WW2 many of our troops got several weeks of “basic” training and shipped off to storm the beaches.
How much training do these guys need? Are they mentally challenged?
Why do so many people in this country think it’s ok for Americans to be dying when there are plenty of Iraqi men to step up to the plate?
If we put guns in their hands, I assure you they will know what to do with them. They all grew up with them for God’s sake.
When are we going to wake up and start asking ALL of the tough questions, like, what if we train the Iraqi’s so well that they equal our special forces, and WHAT makes us think they won’t use our own tactics that WE taught them against us some day soon?
nahhh, the why would Iraqi’s want to hurt us?
Are we learning yet?
November 22nd, 2005 at 7:41 pmWORFEUS,
What I’m saying is that unless you KNOW exactly WHERE the enemy IS (say, that building, over there, #123 Baghdad Boulevard) AND they PROMISE they’re going to stay RIGHT THERE… THEN NO… A nice clean PRECISION STRIKE ain’t going to do JACK SHIT other than blow up buildings…
Don’t you recall all the SHIT the military got for attempting to bomb buildings they THOUGHT Saddam’s sons were in?
How much “collateral damage” did those “precision strikes” cause?
There comes a time when FEET ON THE GROUND is the most effective use of “precision weaponry” (in the hands of a soldier).
Would I prefer that the “insurgents” had nice neat forts, clearly identifiable from the air, that we could simply bomb off the face of the earth, without harming ONE unneccessary blade of grass? You bet your ass I do, and so would EVERYONE else…
The problem, Sir, is that the “insurgents” don’t want to play by those rules… They blend in to the community; They’re NOT wearing uniforms; They’re NOT from any COUNTRY’s army…
You expect a pilot to spot a suicide bomber from, what, 35,000 feet, on a crowded street, and pick HIM (and HIM ALONE) off with a smart bomb, or a missile?
You know, they (the “insurgents”) COULD simply lay down their weapons (or turn them over to the Iraqi Government), and promise to live in accordance with the NEW Iraq Constitution, using the BALLOT BOX to affect change (rather than IEDs).
REALLY, it IS up to THEM…
AND, honestly, the MINUTE the Iraqi Government says that THEY want our troops out – THEN, I’m with you, and Murtha (but not a moment before)…
November 22nd, 2005 at 8:35 pmSo let me see if I understand your argument correctly, and now I think I do.
You, and those who support your “boots on the ground theory” are saying that the best way to root out the enemy is to use our soldiers as “live bait”?
Hmmmmmm..you make a strong argument….This does lure out the insurgency. Sorta.
The fact is our soldiers are not dying from bullets, but from bombs. The insurgents are drawn out long enough to plant a roadside bomb and kill more troops. But hey , I don’t know, maybe down the road we can catch some of them in the act or something. Who knows.
While using our soldiers as live bait may be a good plan strategically, I am not sure of success thus far.
Then again, your argument is also lacking in other areas.
You say that,
#A nice clean PRECISION STRIKE ain’t going to do JACK SHIT other than blow up buildings…#
What do you think we are doing now. Anyway it’s moot, because you are completely MISSING the point of strategic deployments.
Our troops would only be called in to assist in large scale operations. Iraqi personnel will be expected to deal with the small ones ON THEIR OWN.
Now I know that hurts, you want to hold their hands a while longer, but if we only respond to large scale operations, then the enemies position will already be defined, as they will likely be engaged in combat with the Iraqi army.
If we point our guns at the guys the Iraqi army is pointing their guns at, then…..
Like I said earlier, you guys who got EVERYTHING wrong going in, are not the ones our nation needs to turn to now for answers on getting out.
Fool me once…shame on you…..
Fool me twice….
er…uh..
can’t git fooled again..
November 22nd, 2005 at 8:56 pmWORFEUS,
No, I don’t want our troops to be “bomb fodder”… I want them to KILL PEOPLE AND BREAK THINGS until THEY are confident that they are safe, and have eliminated the threat (ALL threats in Iraq).
The problem, of course, is that IF they were allowed to act like our soldiers in WW2, they would be called FAR worse than the “baby killers” insults of the Vietnam era…
When those WW2 soldiers were “shipped off to storm the beaches”, they were NOT told (hey, make sure you don’t shoot at a church, even if the Nazis are using it as a fort).
We bombed Monte Cassino monastery, Abbey monastery, and German Churches in Dresden (to name but a few)…
Yet, OUR military is dragged through the media mud, over panties on prisoners heads, or forcing them to make naked pyramids…
THAT, of course, is disgusting (compared to the humane treatment by Iraqis of those THEY capture [I can post the links, if you want to watch the videos]):
Al Qaeda in Iraq Beheads Badr Brigades Member – Oct 22 2005
November 22nd, 2005 at 8:57 pmTwo Beheaded in Iraq by Ansar Al Sunnay Army – Oct 5 2005
Throat Cut of Russian Soldier – Aug 11 2005
Al Qaeda in Iraq says it killed Algerian envoys – Ambassador Hostage Video – Jul 27 2005
Al Qaeda in Iraq Says it Killed Egypt Ambassador – Hostage Video Released – Jul 7 2005
Al-Qaeda in Iraq Threatens with Beheading Egyptian Diplomat (No Hostage Video) – Jul 6 2005
TV Airs Italian Hostage Video (Clementina Cantoni Video) – May 28 2005
Japanese Contractor, Akihiko Saito, Taken Hostage by Ansar Al Sunnah Army – May 9 2005
Australian Hostage, Douglas Wood, Threatened with Beheading in New Video – May 6 2005
American Contractor, Jeffrey Ake from Indiana, Who Was Taken Hostage in Iraq, Shown on Video – Apr 13 2005
US contractor kidnapped in Iraq – Apr 11 2005
Russian Soldier Beaten and Beheaded by Chechen Rebel – Apr 9 2005
Zarqawi’s Group, al Qaeda in Iraq, Beheads Iraqi National Guard on Video – Apr 4 2005
Ansar Al Sunnah Executes 3 Iraqi Drivers – Mar 29 2005
Three Romanian journalists kidnapped in Iraq – Mar 29 2005
Zarqawi’s Group Executes Iraqi Interior Ministry Official by Gun Shot – Mar 27 2005
‘Beheading’ Horror in the Streets of London (News Article) – Mar 14 2005
Iraqi Translator Executed By Ansar Al Sunnah Army (Execution Video) – Feb 7 2005
Giuliana Sgrena an Italian journalist, Kidnapped In Iraq – Feb 4 2005
Roy Hallums Video Shows U.S. Hostage Pleading For His Life – Jan 25 2005
2nd Iraqi Worker Beheaded on the Streets of Iraq – Jan 21 2005
Iraqi Worker Beheaded on the Streets – Jan 21 2005
Nick Berg’s Body Found Hanging From Bridge – May 8, 2004 – Jan 21 2005
Ansar Al Sunnah Army Executes 2 Iraqi Election Internet Workers In Mosul – Execution Video – Jan 19 2005
Mussab bin Omeir Brigades for Islamic Jihad Captures 2 Lebanese Businessmen – Hostage Video – Jan 8 2005
Rebels ‘Behead Westerner’ In Mosul Ambush (News Story) – Dec 17 2004
Italian Hostage Salvatore Santoro Killed In Iraq By Islamic Movement of Iraqi Mujahideen – Dec 16 2004
Ansar Al Sunnah Army Takes Kurdish-Iraqi Hostage – Dec 8 2004
Militants Behead Iraqi Soldier – Dec 8 2004
EXCLUSIVE: Beheaded Body Image Of Korean Hostage Kim Sun Il – Dec 7 2004
Consulate in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, Is Attacked By Gunmen – Hostages Taken – Dec 6 2004
Arabic television Al Jazeera has ‘interesting’ material concerning the execution of Enzo Baldoni – Dec 4 2004
Margaret Hassan Video Tape Shows CARE worker Getting Murdered. – Nov 16 2004
Western Woman, Possibly Margaret Hassan or Teresa Borcz Khalifa (Polish Hostage) Found Mutilated In Fallujah – Nov 14 2004
Ansar Al Sunnah Army Captures Three Marine Corps Translators – Nov 7 2004
Lebanese-American businessman, Radim Sadeq, Kidnapped In Iraq. No Radim Sadeq Video – Nov 3 2004
al-Sunnah Army Beheads Iraqi Officer – Nov 3 2004
Beheaded Body Of Japanese Hostage, Shosei Koda, Found In Iraq. No Shosei Koda Video Yet – Oct 30 2004
Margaret Hassan Video – Oct 26 2004
Iraqi Seif Adnan Kanaan Beheaded By Ansar Al-Sunnah Army – Oct 22 2004
Abu Mussab al-Zarqawi Group Claims To Have Beheaded 11 National Guard Apostates – Oct 17 2004
Turkish Truck Driver Beheading Video – Execution Performed By Qaqa Brigade (Tawhid and Jihad group) – Oct 14 2004
Brigades of Abu Bakr Al-Sidiq Beheading 2 Iraqi Intelligence Agents (Fadhel Ibrahim and Firas Imeil) – Oct 13 2004
Shiite Iraqi Ala al-Maliki Beheaded By Ansar al-Sunnah Army (Video) – Oct 12 2004
Iraqi Kurdish Translator (Luqman Hussein) And Turkish Contractor Beheading Video – Beheaded By the Ansar al-Sunnah Army – Oct 11 2004
Ken Bigley Video – Kenneth Bigley Beheading Video – Oct 10 2004
Iraqi national Barea Nafea Dawoud Ibrahim Beheaded By Ansar al-Sunna – Oct 3 2004
Beheading Victims In Guatemala – Oct 1 2004
US Soldiers Beheaded 2 Vietcongs In Vietnam – Sep 26 2004
American Hostage Jack Hensley Beheading Video – Sep 22 2004
American Hostage Eugene Armstrong Beheading Video (Killed By Zarqawi Militant Group) – Sep 21 2004
Video of 3 Kurds (Part of Kurdish Democratic Party) Beheaded By Army of Ansar al-Sunna Here – Sep 20 2004
Beheaded Body Of Bulgarian Hostage, Georgi Lazov, Found In Tigris River – Aug 9 2004
Head Of Bulgarian Hostage In Iraq – Jul 29 2004
Robert Jacob Shot And Beheaded In Iraq – Jun 13 2004
Three children found decapitated in apartment – May 28 2004
Nick Berg Beheading Video – Nick Berg Execution Video – May 25 2004
Daniel Pearl Beheading Video | Daniel Pearl Execution Video – May 16 2004
So now we are back to comparing our illegal occupation of the soverign nation of Iraq, to WW2.
As you good ole boys say, that dog won’t hunt.
November 22nd, 2005 at 9:04 pmAnd thats a nice list of AlQaeda related attrocities. What has that got to do with our invasion of Iraq?
Oh yea, thats what the republican war machine has been feeding to their sheep for years now. Iraq, AlQaeda, Iraq, 911.
You know, I don;t know if you believe that line of crap, but one things for sure, you can’t sell it to me.
Bearing false witness against Iraq should be beneath you and your lot by now.
What else ya got?
November 22nd, 2005 at 9:10 pmAnd hey, whats a few panties on holy mens heads? Or a few “naked pyrimids” among friends?
Water board schmartter board………who cares?
Let me kick in your door in the middle of the night, knock over your wife, terrify your kids, haul your sons off with plastic bags over their heads,never to be heard from again. Let me make you stand on a box for days, let me beat you, kick you. Let me strip you naked, humiliate you, wrap plastic wrap across your face, stick a garden hose in your mouth and pump the water in until your lungs burst or you pass out.
Let me tell you that you, everything you knew, and ever will be is mine now, and that you are going to die and never see your family again.
Thats not cruel or torture is it? Define Cruel.
Their just a bunch of rag heads anyway…..right?
Yea, I’ll bet your a real good Christian too, aren’t you M Ward?
November 22nd, 2005 at 9:19 pmWorfeus,
November 22nd, 2005 at 9:26 pmYou have obviously been drinking the “hate Bush/ hate Republicans Kool-Aid for so long that you can’t possibly trust the wisdom of our leaders. Is it possible that they might have a better grasp of the bigger picture than you? Do you really believe that anyone wants to stay in Iraq longer than necessary? Do you think the United States doesn’t want to give back to the Iraqi people their sovereignty?Murtha’s plan is redundant. He’s not saying anything that Bush hasn’t said already. Murtha’s shining revelation has been the intention of the Bush administration from the onset. You’re so caught up in congesswoman Schmidt’s comments that you’ve completely missed the point. The Iraqi people simply aren’t ready for us to leave yet… by their own assessment! Setting a hard date will only encourage the insurgents to just lay low until we leave. This whole pull out of Iraq thing is nothing more than a Democratic stunt designed to help them win elections in ‘06 and ‘08. They think by their constant attacks on the president and by politicizing the war, they’re striking a chord with the American people. They’re only preaching to their own choir — those who voted for Kerry.
I am reposting my post number 571 because I don’t think you read it clearly. Your long post of NON Iraqi related incidents once again diverted from the topic.
Man you guys are good, at that ole switcheroo that is. The topic is the TROOP REDEPLOYMENT, and YOUR INSISTANCE the we use our own soldiers as LIVE BAIT.
It had nothing to do with that long list of Alqaeda related attrocities. So back to topic. Talk to the points.
Here is post 571 again. When you can talk to these issues, I’m all ears.
_____________________________________________________
So let me see if I understand your argument correctly, and now I think I do.
You, and those who support your “boots on the ground theory†are saying that the best way to root out the enemy is to use our soldiers as “live bait�
Hmmmmmm..you make a strong argument….This does lure out the insurgency. Sorta.
The fact is our soldiers are not dying from bullets, but from bombs. The insurgents are drawn out long enough to plant a roadside bomb and kill more troops. But hey , I don’t know, maybe down the road we can catch some of them in the act or something. Who knows.
While using our soldiers as live bait may be a good plan strategically, I am not sure of success thus far.
Then again, your argument is also lacking in other areas.
You say that,
#A nice clean PRECISION STRIKE ain’t going to do JACK SHIT other than blow up buildings…#
What do you think we are doing now. Anyway it’s moot, because you are completely MISSING the point of strategic deployments.
Our troops would only be called in to assist in large scale operations. Iraqi personnel will be expected to deal with the small ones ON THEIR OWN.
Now I know that hurts, you want to hold their hands a while longer, but if we only respond to large scale operations, then the enemies position will already be defined, as they will likely be engaged in combat with the Iraqi army.
If we point our guns at the guys the Iraqi army is pointing their guns at, then…..
Like I said earlier, you guys who got EVERYTHING wrong going in, are not the ones our nation needs to turn to now for answers on getting out.
Fool me once…shame on you…..
Fool me twice….
er…uh..
can’t git fooled again..
November 22nd, 2005 at 9:27 pmM Tatreau
You too. Read post 571. It is you who is caught up in schmidts shit. Not me.
I am dealing with the PLAN. The Murtha Plan. None of you are. You just keep calling it “cut-n-run” and saying nothing else.
It’s not about schmidt, it’s not about Murtha, it’s about the troops.
Republicans want to use the troops for live human bait to “root out the enemy”. Murtha wants to REDEPLOY the troops to the outskirts where they are OUT OF HARMS WAY, and support the Iraqi people on a contingent basis.
And because this plan is so simple and so brilliant, all you guys can do is attack Murtha, and us.
You can’t kill the message, so you try to kill the messengers.
November 22nd, 2005 at 9:33 pmOkay, I know I’m lagging behind here, but I need to respond to M. Ward’s comment in #518, in which he states (and I quote): “As to Iraq, you are correct. We entered into Military Combat with Iraq because of Kuwait is a “member†of NATO, and the NATO charter calls on ALL member states to come to the aid of other member states.”
Kuwait is NOT a member of NATO. Is not now, never has been. If you expect us to listen and respond to your comments, at least take the time to do your most basic of research. The only “Moslem” country in NATO is Turkey. Maybe what you meant to say is that Kuwait was “an oil-rich dictatorship that we relied on to quench our thirst for oil.”
November 22nd, 2005 at 9:46 pmWorfeus,
You’re a typical lib. You think that you’re the smartest guy in the room, and everyone who disagrees with you is stupid.
November 22nd, 2005 at 9:47 pmAre you aware that the vast majority of those being killed by the car and roadside bombs are Iraqi’s. To read your postings, one would think that American soldiers are the only ones getting killed over there. Do you have kids? When they learned to ride a bike did you set them on it and walk away? Did you set a date for them to be riding on their own? Did you withdraw to the backyard and listen for their screams as they crashed in the street? Or did you run along side until they found their balance and their confidence. This principle is so simple that I’m sure a genius like you will see the parallel to Iraq.
This opportunistic grandstanding by Jean Schmidt is so lame, but so typical of American culture right now. She attacked a true patriot and marine, she avoided addressing any real claims or warrants and she herself is insulated, rich and pathetic. Chenney, Rumsfeld and Bush are a bunch of draft-dodging rich-boy wimps who start wars, profit from wars – but they have never seen combat. I’m not saying that we should get out of Iraq immediately … but, we should also admit that the Bush Administration has screwed this campaign up royally and put a lot of fine soldiers in harm’s way for no good reason. So, we should get a post-war plan and try Rumsfeld as a war-criminal. And, priviledged investment-class phonies like Jean Schmidt should just shut up. Maybe some real patriots should take out their standard issue K-Bar knives and cut-&-run all over her pathetic face.
November 22nd, 2005 at 9:53 pmM. Trateau,
You’re a typical arrogant Republican, thinking that only Americans can teach the world. Adult Iraqis are not children learning to ride a bike. They are ADULTS.
November 22nd, 2005 at 9:58 pmDid you feel the need to send American troops to the former USSR when the republics there gained their independence? Is is because Iraqis look different from you, and therefore can’t possiby be as intelligent? Why do you assume the Iraqis cannot find their own way without our assitance?
Joe Worker,
November 22nd, 2005 at 9:58 pmDon’t quit your day job. Your pathetic grasp of current events makes you sound like a left-wing extremist parrot.
Booth,
No one said anything about the Iraqi’s intelligence. Except you. No one has said anything about the way they look except you. You sure are assuming an awful lot. Do you have a job? Did you receive training? Or were you expected to figure everything out for yourself when you were hired? After all you’re not a child. I’m sure you were left to yourself to figure everything out. How can you so completely miss the point of the illustration?
November 22nd, 2005 at 10:07 pmM Tatreau,
I’ll ask you the same thing that I asked M. Ward: What are you doing to live for, or die for, your convictions that we should be in Iraq and Afghanistan, other than name-calling on the internet?
November 22nd, 2005 at 10:09 pmTo be honest with you booth,
I am struggling to understand where you guys are coming from, as I’m sure you struggle to understand me and those who share my views. The problem is there seems to be a vast gulf between viewpoints with no way to bridge the gap. I’m guilty, as are many on this site of responding out of frustration from reading opinions that are so foreign, and from not being able to have my views understood. I’m sorry if I’ve offended you.
November 22nd, 2005 at 10:21 pmM. Tatreau,
Your illustration was of children riding bikes. If you mean to convey other illustrations, you will need to write them. We can only read what you write, not what you think.
November 22nd, 2005 at 10:25 pmI’m not a typical anything. But if you want to call me a typical liberal, ok, fine. Liberal is a derivative of the word Liberty, so ok, Liberty works for me.
Pat Henry an all that…….
But there is no reason to criticize a guy calling himself Joe Worker. That name could aptly apply to me, and a lot of us in here. Were not all like JB Stone, political activists and such. Many of us are just, Joe Workers.
But that aint a bad thing. Joe Worker is what makes this country go.
But thanks for the civil tone and offering him an apology. Everytime we reach out like that to each other we remember there is more that aligns us, then divides us.
P.S
I can’t help but touch this one. Booth answered you well on this one, (thanks Booth!), but come On Tatreau, You are now comparing the Iraqi’s to “our children”?.. Really?
No you didn’t!
Really….???
Seriously thats just too funny. I know your smart enough to know there is more there than “meets the eye” with regards to “why” the Iraqi’s have not taken over military operations on their own.
You know that there is something there, just beneath the surface,,,something we just can’t quite see, yet.
Our Children,,,holy crap thats a good one. That would make us their fathers. Who’s there mother? Syria?
And and with regards to the “I think I’m the smartest one in the room” comment?
I don’t think for a minute I am even close to the smartest one in this room….Perhaps you do..your the only one who said that.
I do however posses the common sense God gave me. And that common sense says that a good way to “win over the hearts and mind of the Iraqi people” would be to well, how about NOT BLOWING THEM UP?
Just a thought….
November 22nd, 2005 at 10:44 pmThe point of an illustration is to take a subject that everyone can relate to, such as teaching a child to ride a bike, and draw a connection to an unrelated topic, such as staying alongside the Iraqi people until they can stand on their own. You don’t put a child on a bike who has never ridden, and walk away. likewise you don’t liberate a people who have never been free, and leave them to fight off their enemies and take their first steps as a democracy by themselves. With the child, the parent or whomever gets to decide when that child can ride the bike by themselves. Yes they will fall, they will have some close calls, but you leave them to figure some things out for themselves. The same holds true with Iraq, but many who are not responsible for the decision are trying to say that Iraq is ready now. Those who are responsible for the decision don’t agree. Murtha’s proposal seems as inappropriate to me, as my neighbor telling me when my child is actually ready to ride his bike on his own. Is that easier to understand?
November 22nd, 2005 at 10:49 pmM. Tatreau,
You have not offended me, but I am truly trying to figure out why we need to kill Iraqis, and have Americans killed in the process, to fight terrorism and protect Americans. It seems to me that putting Americans in front of bombs and bullets in a foreign country is a sure way to have Americans killed by terrorists. Iraq is not WWII Germany or Japan bent on our destruction. If we truly want to fight terrorism, lets find bin Laden, etc. It’s been 4 years since Sept. 11, 2001, and bin Laden is still on the loose…supposedly in Pakistan which is obstensibly an ally? I doubt he is in Iraq. If our goal is global democritization, then let’s be honest and state that as our goal. Cuba is much closer than Iraq. China is more heavily populated than Iraq. Let’s get started with them, if forcing democracy on the world is our stated goal.
November 22nd, 2005 at 10:55 pmOne more comment on the Iraqis standing up for their freedom.
Our fathers who stormed the beaches at Normandy didn’t get any hand holding. They got, heres your rifle. Here’s how to shoot your rifle. Now get on the boat. Time to go! Last I heard they did ok on that one.
Well this is the Iraqi D-Day. For them, it is WW2. And their Hitler is Alqeada, and terror.
It’s time for the Iraqi’s to step up. Well give em the guns (hope they point em in the right direction:) and weve got their backs if they need us, but it’s time for our boys, and girls to get out of harms way and let the Iraqis do what they have to do.
November 22nd, 2005 at 10:59 pmAnd PS
Before you even go there I said it is THEIR WW2, not ours. To them it is WW2, and they do need our help. But we can’t help them inside their own country when its THEY who are joining alqeada and shooting at us to get us out of their land.
November 22nd, 2005 at 11:03 pmI could be mistaken booth,
November 22nd, 2005 at 11:06 pmbut I thought I’ve heard the president mention that we were advancing freedom thoughout the world. My thoughts are; if we succeed in the unstable middle east, then we can do it anywhere. But seriously,
I don’t believe we had a choice as to where to start. Something had to be done with Iraq. The whole thing seemed sort of thrust upon us as a nation… and no Bush didn’t do it.
WORFEUS,
November 22nd, 2005 at 11:15 pmHave we ever taken that stance with an ally? or a friend? It seems to me that we have always taken on the lions share as a nation. I agree with you though… I’m looking forward to when Americas sons and daughters can be taken out of harms way. I just don’t see this country ever not taking on the hardships and not making sacrifices for the benefit of other nations. It’s who we are.
[...] Rep. Jean Schmidt (R-OH), lacking the self-control and sense of proportion of a Bob Newman, really blows her top on the floor of the House: Yesterday I stood at Arlington National Cemetery attending the funeral of a young marine in my district. He believed in what we were doing is the right thing and had the courage to lay his life on the line to do it. A few minutes ago I received a call from Colonel Danny Bubp, Ohio Representative from the 88th district in the House of Representatives. He asked me to send Congress a message: Stay the course. He also asked me to send Congressman Murtha a message, that cowards cut and run, Marines never do. Danny and the rest of America and the world want the assurance from this body – that we will see this through. [...]
November 22nd, 2005 at 11:17 pmWorfeus, training the Iraqi army takes patience, some hurry up patience, but patience. Remember, these are people who were not taught strength and courage but fear and submission. They have to learn guts and courage as well as how to fight and the rules of fighting. They have so much to learn in a short period of time. The Iraqi Army HAS been sent as the primary force in certain situations, such as the elections. One particular unit was really apprehensive about being on their own at the polls. After a long discussion, their nerves were settled when they were promised that they would have close air support the entire time.
Little by little, they are out there first. Send them out to the polls alone – wow, they provided security alone and they did it well! Good job! Send them out into a situation with a little more risk, let them succeed, gain confidence from that success, and on and on. They now are fighting with our guys in some of these larger operations. They are learning through our example in these battles, as well as through experience. Confidence comes from little successes, and that is what is happening. You can’t send them to target practice, explain the rules, spend a few weeks with them and then set them off on their own. Al Kasik is one base that is strictly a training base. Our guys are working long hours preparing the Iraqis. If you will look outside the MSM, heck read soldier’s blogs, you will read first hand the progress that is being made. We are training them, they are learning, and little by little they are towing the line. Before you all discuss what is happening in Iraq, read it first hand from the soldiers and Marines who are there, then have your discussions.
While you are at it, look at the pictures of some of the Iraqi soldiers. You know the image of the tough iron clad soldiers? Not gonna find one in Iraq unless it is an American soldier you are looking at.
November 23rd, 2005 at 1:08 amGod Bless America! God Bless Murtha! God damned Schmidt!
November 23rd, 2005 at 2:50 amI’m sorry Cathy, if I don’t share your belief that ANYONE needs 2 YEARS to be trained to shoot their guns effectively enough to defend themselves. In fact, these people grew up with automatic weapons.
2 years? What are you training them to do, become ninja super power rangers who can do advanced calculus while building a shelter out of bamboo reeds?
Sorry but you are gonna have to do better than the same old tired rhetoric about how they need to be handheld into protecting themselves.
And just because you found some troops who agree with you does not mean it’s right.
2 years? Hell they could all be flying Harrier jets by now, with one arm tied behind their backs, while doing somersaults and pulling monkeys out of their butts.
November 23rd, 2005 at 3:20 amAnd BTW, what makes us think all this so called “training” we are giving them is going to do any good?
Last time I checked, we have been UNSUCCESSFUL in stopping or even slowing down the rebellion. All we do is wait for a bomb to go off, go clean up the mess, then kick in a few doors and round up some people we think may have been involved. I think the Iraqis can handle that much.
You guys really have put a lot of lipstick on this pig.
What are we training them to do? Loose?
November 23rd, 2005 at 3:26 amI’ve listened to all of the whining on Air America, but this is the 1st time that I’ve visited a left wing blog. Progress??? I think not. You people are WHACKO’s….
November 23rd, 2005 at 5:48 amShe seems to be exploiting marines and the military. She has embarassed the US to the world by fulfilling ours and the world’s nasty right wing stereotype. I’m actually embarassed FOR for, and that’s from a gay nonreligious NYC democrat. This will bring her down a notch. She outdoes the right wing religious leaders. I just wish us democrats didn’t need her to do our jobs.
November 23rd, 2005 at 11:04 amYea Mike
Your the ones advocating killing people.
We are advocating things OTHER than killing them.
Yea WE’RE the whackos….
November 23rd, 2005 at 11:41 amShe looks like the Wicked Witch of the West in the Wizard of Oz. Get back on your broom and fly back to PA.
November 23rd, 2005 at 11:41 amMike has demonstrated just once more Schmidt did what she did.
They have no intelligent arguments to deal with our questioning the war, and what to do about the war now that they got us into this “quagmire” (Remember that word? We tried to tell them….)
So instead they launch personal attacks, like calling us all whackos.
Wow you must be really, really smart Mike…..
You think up that one all on your own did you? Or did you have people pulling your strings like that Schmidt?
November 23rd, 2005 at 11:49 amI really do not understand how someone can get up and call others “cowards” when they have never faced the enemy in combat. I guess she, our great president and vice president have all been to war and know all about getting your guts spread all over the battle field. I really do not remember ever seeing our current great leaders trying to stop the bleeding of a fellow serviceman or throwing them onto a helicopter with their body parts. Maybe if they had experienced this a little, they would not be so willing to send others to war. I supprt our troops fully and always have and always will, but I do not support this dumb ass war. We have way to many of our people dying for some war that most of us don’t even suport. It is time to bring the troops home, and if this is considered “cutting and running”, so be it. Call me a coward, I really don’t give a crap, if you haven’t walked in my shoes, your ignorant comments really don’t mean a thing to me. So since this little lady feels we are “cowards” I suppose she will be signing up next week and she will be going over there and show all of how it should be done. Good Luck Ms Schmidt, and be sure and let us know all of the brave things you do. By the way, I served 22 years active duty with the U.S. Marine Corps and the U.S. Navy and am now retired so I might have had a little experience in what I am talking about. So to end this little message I would like to say. “I wish all of our troops the very best and hopefully you all will be home soon” Have a great thanksgiving and xmas.
November 23rd, 2005 at 1:35 pmbooth,
You are correct (my bad). Kuwait is NOT a member of NATO. Our involvement in Kuwait was, nonetheless, under the auspices of the NATO charter (to defend member states). Again, you are correct, the member state in question WAS Turkey.
Turkey WAS, in fact, threatened by Saddam (I refer you to the NATO Review of the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait: http://www.nato.int/docu/review/1991/9103-2.htm, see paragraph #7).
Kuwait was, nonetheless, conferred “non-NATO ally” status (along with these other NON-NATO countries, that we probably shouldn’t help defend: Japan, Australia, Israel, Egypt, South Korea, Argentina, New Zealand, the Philippines, and Thailand), which, among other things, “enjoy a privileged security relationship with the United States.”
So, are you saying that (A) Kuwait would have been better off, if Saddam had been allowed to take over Kuwait, (B) The Middle East would have been better off, if Saddam had been allowed to take over Kuwait, (C) The United States would have been better off, if Saddam had been allowed to take over Kuwait, (D) The WORLD would have been better off, if Saddam had been allowed to take over Kuwait?
You choose… And, yes, those ARE the only options, because NOT doing what we did, would have resulted in Saddam taking over Kuwait. AND, probably, Turkey and/or Saudi Arabia. Maybe you even think that the Iraqi people would be better off, if Saddam (and his sons) were raping women, torturing those who didn’t keep their Saddam portrait prominently displayed in their homes, torturing those who didn’t win soccer matches, cutting off hands of anyone who didn’t do Saddam’s bidding. Abu Ghraib was NOT built by US, you know… Saddam and his henchmen used it for FAR worse purposes than anything the U.S. military was accused of.
YES, sure, our nation’s OIL supply WAS at risk… That would be one of the MAIN reasons I think that we should be drilling in ANWAR right NOW! If we reduce (Hell, I’d like to ELIMINATE) our reliance on FOREIGN oil, we’d be a LOT better off.
However, until Hydrogen or any other “alternative†fuels become REASONABLE (affordable and readily available) alternatives, we’re STUCK with oil. YOU can drive a Hugo if you want to, just don’t demand that everyone else does, because YOU think it’s a good idea. And NO, I don’t think it’s the Oil Company’s responsibility to develop those alternative fuels (unless they WANT to)… It they want to ignore the problem, and allow, say, ADM or DOW Chemical to develop something that will render their industry useless, that’s their call (I won’t cry a single tear, if those refineries turn into monuments to the stupid).
Now, back to the issue… NONE of us, here, are members of Congress (at least I don’t think any of us are), nor have WE been elected to public office (in a position to make these National Security decisions). OUR votes (especially “public opinion pollsâ€) don’t mean jack (except on “election dayâ€).
The Congress HAS debated this issue AD NAUSEAM. THEY have voted (repeatedly) to give the President the authority to take military action in Iraq, and, as you know, most recently, to NOT “cut-and-runâ€â€¦
If you don’t like THEIR vote, tell THEM… Personally, as you might have gathered, I DO concur with their vote. I DO believe we SHOULD have kicked Saddam out of Kuwait. I DO believe that getting Saddam out of power is GOOD for Iraq, GOOD for the Middle East, GOOD for America, and GOOD for the WORLD.
I agree with that Arab saying, “the enemy of my enemy is my friendâ€.
SO, when it WAS in our best interest to support Iraq (when they were fighting Iran), we did so… BUT, when conditions change, so, too, does our classification of “friend†and “enemy†(just as when Liberals SUPPORTED the war – we, as a country, stood together as Americans; NOW, though, SOME Liberals want to “cut-and-run†– THEY are no longer looked upon with favor [not by Republicans, and, apparently, NOT by Democrats in the House]).
Murtha’s comments are NOT “main stream†(certainly not with anyone who is in a position to CHANGE anything) – it IS dangerous to the safety and stability of Iraq, the Middle East, America and the World (AND it is opposed by Iraqi President, Jalal Talabani, who cautioned against an immediate troop withdrawal, saying it “would lead to a kind of civil war and … we will lose what we have done for liberating Iraq from [the] worst kind of dictatorship. Instead of having a democratic, stable Iraq, we will have a civil war in Iraq, we will have troubles in Iraq, (and they) will affect all the Middle East.”).
But, don’t let me stop you… Continue chanting your mantras… Go camp out with “the Bitch in the Ditch†in front of President Bush’s ranch… Go “march on Washingtonâ€â€¦ Stay up late typing entries to these threads…
As long as we have a LEADER (“consensus is the absence of leadershipâ€) in the White House, and a Congress that SUPPORTS HIM (again, even Hillary opposes immediate troop withdrawal), we’re NOT GOING ANYWHERE…
When the Iraqis are READY to defend themselves, THEN we’ll leave (and we’ll leave their oil there, too – we won’t STEAL it, nor set the wells on fire when we leave).
That has ALWAYS been the President’s plan (this is nothing NEW) – HIS PLAN is NOT the result of “pressure by the Democratsâ€, and Certainly not because of Jack Murtha.
November 23rd, 2005 at 1:52 pmWORFEUS,
Poverty is the poor’s WW2. They don’t need OUR help, do they? They can handle it all by themselves too, right?
Homlessness is the homeless’ WW2. They don’t need OUR help… They can get off the streets if they WANTED to, right?
Somethings DEMAND our attention! YOU, of course, are free to NOT do anything about them…
Sit back and complain about those who ARE doing something (like Churches and other “faith based” organizations), which actually give a damn about the poor and the homeless (WITHOUT the Government’s failed policies getting in the way).
Sit back and complain about the President (and everyone who agrees with him), who believes that we SHOULD be doing what we’re doing in Iraq (and elsewhere)…
November 23rd, 2005 at 2:02 pmWTF is she wearing?
November 23rd, 2005 at 2:08 pmDon,
I don’t know how ANYONE who’s not an Iraqi can say ANYTHING about the conditions in Iraq.
I don’t know how ANYONE who not IN Iraq RIGHT NOW, can say whether (s)he should or should not be there…
I don’t know how ANYONE who’s not a mechanic can complain about their car when it’s broken.
I don’t know how ANYONE who’s not a programmer can complain when they can’t figure how to make their computer work.
I don’t know how ANYONE who’s not a chef can complain about the food they eat.
I don’t know how ANYONE who’s not a metorologist can complain about the weather…
I don’t know how ANYONE who’s not in the I.R.S. can complain about taxes…
You see how ILLOGICAL your argument is?
Hey, don’t point that gun at yourself (even if you “sure” it is not loaded) – there MIGHT, in fact, be a bullet in the chamber, and it MIGHT go off…
I don’t have to be a member of the N.R.A. to have a valid point, now do I?
Or, perhaps, you like this one… Unless your a member of Congress, you have no business complaining about legislation…
Unless you’re the President, you have no business complaining about how WAR is conducted…
Let’s see if this hits home…
Your youngest kid is playing out on your front lawn (if you don’t in fact have a front lawn or children, pretent), and the neighorhood bully come up to him/her, beats him/her up, steals his/her skateboard, iPod, lunch money, whatever.
Meanwhile, your eldest child, who watched all this happen, goes over and pushes the bully out of the yard, but when the bully hits your eldest, he turns and runs away, leaving the bully to do whatever he wants to your yougest.
What, precisely, do YOU call your eldest child? A hero (and increase his allowance), or do you question his courage? But, hey, I guess your youngest should have been able to take care of him/her self, huh?
November 23rd, 2005 at 2:35 pmYou have to give the Republicans credit!
No matter how despicable or untrue it may be, they always manage to come up with a catchy phrase. And they will use it until it is ingrained in every American’s mind whether it’s “Flip-flop” or “Cut and run.” Maybe we should come up with our own phrases for them like: “All talk and no walk,” or “Gutless thunder,” etc.
Having served proudly in a cavalry regiment in a forward area in Germany along the [then] Communist Czech border, I am amazed at these weasels who are all wind and smoke, but when it comes time to kick in and swear in, where did they go?
Schmidt, you words do not portray a picture of the Mr. Murtha as much as they do about you. One day, your words will come back to haunt you!
November 23rd, 2005 at 2:51 pmDanny Bupb, the Republican State Representative that Schmidt quoted, is saying in the papers that while he talked with Schmidt and did tell her to tell Congress to stay the course, he never mentioned the word ‘coward’ or Congressman Murtha. Supposedly.
Point being, she was inappropriate and cruel–matching the reputation she cultivated when at her previous job in the Ohio House of Representatives. Let’s hope the voters in OH-2 see through her ‘patriotic’ disguise and put her into retirement once and for all!
November 23rd, 2005 at 3:04 pmWORFEUS,
Can you, please, define QUAGMIRE for us… I don’t think it means what YOU think it means…
May of 2003 Saddam Hussein Regime toppled
December 14, 2003 Saddam Captured
May 31, 2004 Coalition Provision Authority (CPA) Order number 92 establishes the Independent Electoral Commission of Iraq (IECI) as the exclusive electoral authority in Iraq.
June 28, 2004 Sovereignty is transferred from the US-led coalition to the Interim Iraqi Government.
August 18, 2004 Iraqi National Conference selects a national assembly to act as a parliament until elections are held.
October 12, 2004 Elections regulations published by IECI.
October 21, 2004 Voter registration materials distributed.
November 1, 2004 Voter and candidate registration begins for the election of a transition government.
November 4, 2004 Determination is made to allow Iraqis abroad to vote in the elections.
November 21, 2004 Election date is set for January 30, 2005.
December 1, 2004 Recruitment of polling station staff begins.
December 15, 2004 Deadline for registering parties and individuals for the coming election. Validation of voter registration list. Election campaign starts.
January 1, 2005 Process of distributing ballots begins.
January 23, 2005 Last day for expatriates to register to vote.
January 28, 2005 Official campaign period ends.
January 30, 2005 Election Day. Last day for expatriates to vote.
August 15, 2005 Constitution is drafted by the transition government.
October 15, 2005 National vote is to be held regarding the ratification of the proposed constitution.
December 15, 2005 Date scheduled for elections for a permanent government
What QUAGMIRE?
Do you have ANY IDEA how long it took for the “Colonists” to go from defeating the Brittish, to adoption of the United States Consitution?
I’ll give you a little history lesson… The Treaty of Paris was signed September 3, 1783. Our Constitution was Written in 1787, ratified in 1788, and in operation since 1789. That, my guagmired friend, is 5+ YEARS (’til ratifed)
Our “Bill of Rights” (the first ten amendments) were not ratified until February 7, 1795. If you include THEM in the timeframe, the United States GUAGMIRE, was 12+ YEARS.
The Iraqis (yes, with us pushing them along) have done it in less than three!
Go back to watching the 22 minute news loop on CNN…
I’m sure you’re get everything you need in those 15 second sound-bites…
November 23rd, 2005 at 3:15 pmTo 609, M. Ward: Yes, let’s shove democracy and free choice down the Iraqis’ throats–whether they want it or not!
ANYONE can criticize; it’s not only our right, but according to one U.S. president, it is our duty and our obligation to criticize, and those who fail to do so are guilty of treason. His name was Theodore Roosevelt–a Republican.
Got one more for ya Ward, and I quote:
“As a matter of general principle, I believe there can be no doubt that criticism in time of war is essential to the maintenance of any kind of domestic government…too many people desire to suppress criticsim simply because they think that it will give some comfort to the enemy to know that there is s such criticism. If that comfort makes the enemy feel better for a few moments, they are welcome to it as far as I am concerned, because the maintenance of the right of criticism in the long run will do the country maintaining it a great deal more good than it will do the enemy, and will prevent mistakes which might otherwise occur.”
Stay with me, Ward, I’m enjoying the irony immensely. The above quote were the words of Senator Robert Taft. He made these remarks on December 19, 1941. Oh, and, uh, he was from Ohio!
About your bully part. If I’m to understand you correctly, it is okay for the US to invade another country without provocation, and decide for them what kind of government they should have because we think it’s better for them? Wow! What arrogance! And you wonder why the rest of the world hates Americans!
So, why don’t we invade the other Arab states that Arabs see as tyrannies, like Eqypt, Saudi Arabia, Iran, or Syria? Do you see why the Arabs don’t believe us when we say we’re there to liberate them? They know it’s an argument of convenience for oil.
November 23rd, 2005 at 3:20 pmWorfeus,
It is difficult for anyone to have any meaningful dialogue with you. It seems as though your mind is already made up–you obviously think the fact our troops are still in Iraq is wrong, and anyone who supports that fact is wrong as well. How does one respectfully oppose you? You keep blasting everyone with your “it doesn’t take two years” rhetoric, Who are you to decide how long it should take to train the Iraqi soldiers? Bush has stated in so many words that it will take as long as it will take. Most of us understand this, but it seems that those who share your viewpoint are completely befuddled by this concept. Every effort to communicate this simple logic to you simply falls on ears that won’t hear. So many who share your views are constantly trying to assign some hidden meaning and ulterior motive to the Bush administrations stance on our presence in Iraq. Please stop masquerading as some highly evolved, enlightened intellectual. You have demonstrated so far that you’re unable to grasp even simple concepts my friend.
November 23rd, 2005 at 3:23 pmHe Ward,
How many roadside bombs do you think there were in the colonies from 1781 to 1787?
How many major religions and ethnic divisions do you think there were in those years?
Put those questions in your simplistic quagmire.
November 23rd, 2005 at 3:25 pmHey Ward,
How many Americans were killed from 1781 until 1787? How many? 25,000? or 100,000? (Guess range of Iraqi deaths during this time of progress. The US doesn’t even keep a count!)
How much unemployment did Americans have in those years? Was it ever 50% as it is in Iraq right now?
Hey Ward, how is it that Iraq, once a huge exporter of cement with sixteen factories still standing imports the stuff?
How come there are no Iraqis working in this enormous rebuilding effort?
Where did the missing 8 billion dollars go? Don’t you want to know? Don’t you want Congress to investigate? And why haven’t they?
Oh, and Ward, don’t condescend to give me a history lesson, I’ve already figured out how smart you are.
November 23rd, 2005 at 3:33 pmEd Pauzer (re: 614),
WE, Sir, did NOT write their Constitution, now did we?
THEY did, and THEY adopted it (despite the obvious desire of the Left in THIS country to derail/postpone their vote).
I was NOT suggesting that you should NOT be criticizing… It was suggested by Don and countless other Liberals, that “unless you’ve served in the Armed Forces, you have no ‘right’ to call anyone a coward”…
I was, simply, illustrating the lunacy of that logic.
By all means, continue to voice your disapproval of the War, of the President, of Republicans, of Religion, of Freedom, of Democracy…
However, when untruths are stated as fact (as booth correctly pointed out my error with respect to Kuwait’s NATO status), THAT is the time when those who disagree will be quick to point out the mistake…
For example, you (and most on your side of the aisle) continue to characterize our presence in Iraq as “invade another country without provocationâ€. I know your 15-second sound-bite, bumper-sticker mentality limits your ability to comprehend complex issues, but this one really isn’t THAT hard to follow…
1) Saddam’s Iraq INVADED KUWAIT
2) Coalition Troops (including the United States) forced Iraq out of Kuwait
3) Cease-Fire suspended hostilities
4) Saddam REPEATEDLY violated U.N. Resolutions (Cease-Fire agreement)
5) U.N. Resolution 1441 (lasts chance for Saddam)
6) Congress Authorizes President to take military action
7) United States resumes the War
See posting 613 here, for the timetable of Iraqi accomplishments…
“why don’t we invade the other Arab states that Arabs see as tyrannies, like Eqypt, Saudi Arabia, Iran, or Syria�
Because, my obstinant friend, we do not have 12 YEARS of Failed Diplomacy, and 17 United Nations Resolutions, or a cease-fire agreement being violated with ANY of those countries…
Now, if YOU want to spear-head a movement to GET that process started, THEN, in 12 YEARS or so, we can be debating the wisdom of the war against one (or more) of those countries… Dittos, for North Korea (start the U.N. Resolutions NOW)…
But, for now, we’re limited to Iraq (‘cause that’s were we have LEGITIMATE authorization for military action).
November 23rd, 2005 at 3:57 pmTHIS WOMAN IS A DISGRACE TO THE UNITED STATE – AND THE STATE OF OHIO DESERVES HER. GOOD LUCK!!
November 23rd, 2005 at 4:07 pmWORFEUS,
SOMETIMES, smaller, less powerful countries need the HELP of larger, more powerful countries…
Since American History (beyond WWII seems to be a blur to you), when WE were fighting against King George (that’s England), were it not for the assistance of France, we’d probaly be having this little disagreement over a pint, and a plate of bangers ‘n mash, followed by a nice spotted dick.
But then, if the world followed your “cut and run” philosophy, we’d be hoisting ein stein, und eine Platte von schnitzel mit schpetzel, gefolgt von Strudel. But, there I go, back to the WWII comparison…
November 23rd, 2005 at 4:18 pmI find it strange that people like her can be elected.
November 23rd, 2005 at 4:41 pmEd Pauzer,
I guess I need to ask you, too, do you even know what QUAGMIRE means?
It does NOT mean “things aren’t going that well”. It means that things are “bogged down” – as in NO PROGRESS.
The achievements in Iraq can HARDLY be described as “bogged down” (unless, of course, you have that Prime-Time, SitCom, 15-Second Sound-Bite, Bumper-Sticker attention span)…
Again, if you think that we should simply pull the troops out NOW – regardless of the consequences – FINE. Say so (the Dems in Congress didn’t think so, but if YOU want to say so, then SAY IT)…
Iraq is NOT one big failure after another…
Yes, troops are dying, and that is horrible, but not unexpected. I regret the loss of EVERY life (Iraqi, American, EVERYONE)…
America (the President AND Congress) decided that Military Action againt Iraq WAS justified. PERIOD.
The Iraqis, themselves, while not equivalent to our Minute Men (not the ones watching the U.S./Mexican border), are, nonetheless, risking their lives every time they vote.
They have have done so, NOT because WE say that they have to… But because they know that a government elected BY THEM, with a Constitution written BY THEM, is in their best interest.
WE did not write their constitution, nor did WE conduct their elections, because WE KNOW that allowing THEM to do it, is in OUR BEST INTERESTS, TOO.
Look… You guys, who want the troops out NOW, have not been able to convince your elected officials to see it your way, so why would you expect the President to listen to your pleas?
The President DOES have, and always HAS HAD, a PLAN for the eventual withdrawal of troops…
The date for that withdrawal is NOT based on the calendar (some fixed date in time)… It is NOT based on Public-Opinion Polls.
It is based on the actions of the “insurgents” and, more importantly, on the Iraqi Government (to ensure that their government does not fall into the hands of another Saddam, if we were to leave pre-maturely).
WHEN the Iraqi Government is ready, willing, and able to defend itself, THEN we will withdraw. Leaving BEFORE that date, would be the quickest route to repeating the mistakes of Vietnam.
November 23rd, 2005 at 4:43 pmBy her recent comments in the House of Representatives concering Congressman Murtha, Congresswoman Schmidt has shamed herself and every member of her district. I was not surprised to learn that the Marine she was supposedly quoting (state representative Danny Bubp)has since disavowed having spoken to Congresswoman Schmidt on this matter. Congresswoman Schmidt’s shrill tone, bulging neck veins, twisted head and repeated shouting were reminicsent of Nazi Germany’s Propaganda Minister Joseph Goebbels in the 1930s. Congresswoman Schmidt deserves to be soundly defeated in the 2006 election. My only regret is that she ever represented Ohio’s 8th Congressional District in the first place.
November 23rd, 2005 at 5:51 pmYou know M Ward I really, (I mean really) don’t need a lesson from you on the American revolution. (Funny how you guys always remember that if it weren’t for the French Navy, America would still be paying tribute to the crown, then forget it when you want to call them cowards).
I have studied more American history than most. It’s interesting how you always can’t stay away from those personal attacks on my intelligence, attitude or whatever. That goes for you too M. Trataeu.
Personal attacks aside, I have a defintion for you since you are implying I did not know what the word means. You apparantly don’t however.
Quagmire, in the natural sense, means swamp, bog, marsh. But according to Websters dictionary it also means a;
Prediciment
Quandry
A Dliemma
A “sticky situation”
If you and your right wing buddies in here don’t think that our situation in Iraq can easily be now described as a Prediciment, or a Dilemma (a word even republicans have called it), or a “sticky situation”, then you are either lying to me, or lying to yourselves.
Iraq is a Dilemma, which is a synonym of Quagmire.
Quagmire, was the word we heard about a MILLION times prior to the invasion from opponents of the war.
Opponents I might add who WARNED you that Saddam was reading books about the Polish Partisans, and how they fought off the Nazi’s in the Warsaw Ghetto.
He also was purported to have watched the movie, “blackhawk down”.
In fact, proponents of the war warned you all again and again, that Saddam did not plan on meeting us “at the gates”, but in allowing us into the city and then “bog” us down in a “Quagmire” by supporting a strong resistance.
Talk about me having a short memory? TALK TO THAT POINT GENIUS. TALK THE FACT WE TOLD YOU OVER AND OVER NOT TO DO IT, and WHAT WOULD HAPPEN, and you still went in saying, nahhhh, they’ll greet us with flowers.
Face it Ward, Trateau. YOU WERE WRONG THEN, and YOU CAN”T ADMIT IT.
But even worse you want us to listen to you brilliant tactical strategists on what comes next.
Have I my mind made up that illegal invasions into soverign nations killing tens of thousands, imprisoning them, beating them, destroying their homes, have I made my mind up that that was all wrong?
Your damn skippy I’ve made up my mind there Charlemange.
November 23rd, 2005 at 6:20 pmYou know, I bet you guys could pour some ketchup on a plate full of horse crap, bake it, and serve it up to your buddies as meatloaf.
At least that’s what you are doing in here, trying to tell us how great it’s going in Iraq. Quoting those dates your Americanized “puppet regime” you have placed into power is just a red herring.
The Iraqi people have a name for those we handpicked for the American imposed government.
They call them traitors.
2100 americans dead and you think it’s going well.
100,000 Iraqis dead and you think it’s a success.
An average of 1 GI dead per day last year, 4 dead per day this year, and you see that as progress.
See 4 is more than 1.
But I suppose you could call it progress, that is if your an insurgent.
And you are delirious if you think you are in some kind of majority. About 90 percent of the world, and 60 percent of the US are for ending this mess, and 90 percent of the world and 50 percent of the US never wanted us to go in in the first place.
Do you really believe you can make these people into little republicans by killing them? Did Dr. King spread freedom with a gun barrel? Did Ghandi?
And please, no more tired comparisons of Iraq to America in our revolution. The only reason they are doing anything we tell them is because we will kill them, and imprison them, if they don’t.
You know, the time for honoring yourselves will soon be coming to an end.
November 23rd, 2005 at 6:36 pmEd Pauzer, your post number 617 was right on the money. Excellent post!
Our country needs more good men with “vision” now more than ever, as our constitution literally “dangles by a thread” and fundemental relgious terrorists (known as the Christian right) and cowards so afraid of terrosist attacks that they would take away our freedoms,commit attrocities and make criminals out of all of us, therby carefully leading us all down to hell.
November 23rd, 2005 at 6:43 pmOne more note to the repubs in here. I don’t oppose you because you are repubs. I oppose you for the murder you are trying to get me to sign onto.
I am NOT a democrat, and I do NOT forgive the democrats for their lily livered selves prior to the war.
See what happened to them, and no one wants to admit it, but what happened to them, was that they let you republicans “buffalo” them.
They were afraid. Afraid of you. Afraid of what you would do to them if they spoke up.
Think I’m making this up? I’m not.
Hell I was afraid of you, and I’m not even a democrat.
We ALL were afraid of you, as Herr Busch spouted his “for us or against us” doctrine, and passed his “Enabling Act”, oops, I meant Patriot Act.:)
But I spoke out, at least in my Circles, (almost got my ass kicked back before the war by some self righteous young republicans in Georgetown for alluding that Iraq didn’t seem to be tied to 911)
and I knew the rain coming down was really just urine.
So I didn’t take a drink, but half the Democratic party did.
Now they have that “bad taste” in their mouths and they want to rinse.
November 23rd, 2005 at 7:02 pmWorfeus, re:598
What you or I believe does not make a damn bit of difference when it comes to what is happening on the streets of Iraq. In addition I have not sought out blogs of soldiers and Marines who “agree with me”. It is impossible for me to ‘decide’ what is happening there as I am NOT there. And if I was looking for blogs that “agree” with me, what does that prove? All I know is what these guys are writing, doing and experiencing. That is all I have to go on. And I have no reason to believe that they are lying, as you will see the same types of stories many places in many parts if Iraq. Since I found some of these blogs, I have seen a whole other side of what is happening because I am reading it from the guys that are going on humanitarian missions, building roads and schools, and from those that are kicking ass on the front lines. And they are kicking ass! Bad guy ass that is! Yeah, some of ours are getting kicked too, and I don’t take that lightly in the slightest bit. The numbers are far less for us. Haji may be sneaky and full of booby traps, but he is not a skilled warrior and he does NOT follow the rules of war! If he did, this war would be a hell of a lot different. Can you imagine any of our troops wearing dresses in order to blend in, crawling among goats to escape Haji, or hiding in civilian houses? Our military doesn’t operate that way. I am not even sure you can do those things per the rules of war. Wait, before you say it, I know that each and every service member of the US does not follow the rules of war 100% of the time. But we sure don’t blatantly disregard them 100% of the time either.
Whatever you or I believe or think about how long it should or will take to train the Iraqis, again, doesn’t make a damn bit of difference. The only thing that matters is how well we are teaching and how well they are learning. That will determine how fast all of this training gets accomplished, and how quickly we can turn security and fighting over to the Iraqis. Are you questioning the training ability and effectiveness of our military in doing that? Why such little faith? Why such doubt? You said they grew up with automatic weapons. Well, yeah, I am sure some did. I suspect it all depends which side of Saddam they were on. Here, we have guns and weapons available for any law abiding citizen to purchase. Many households have guns in them, some responsibly stored, some not. Criminals find them too. Does that mean everyone in America knows how to fire a weapon? No. Does every guy that joins our military have experience with guns? Don’t know, is it a requirement? Training the Iraqi army is more than just weapons lessons. We are trying to put together a new army and train them to plan and execute successfully – and that is the key phrase – plan and execute successfully. We can not send them out on their own until they have the skills, confidence and knowledge to be successfull. It would not be fair to them to put a uniform on their backs and a gun in their hands and two weeks or how ever soon after that and say ‘Good luck boys!’. You say hand holding is rhetoric? If some Iraqis really and truely are anxious about being alone without us, where is the rhetoric in that? Why do you question that? How do you know whether some need extra support, or hand holding as you call it? But if these are the facts, then what you or I think or believe is irrelevant. But unless you or I are there and seeing it for ourselves, all we can go on is the writings from the guys who ARE there.
BTW, our guys are not WAITING to get bombed. Yeah, Haji fires mortors at the FOBs and a vast majority miss. And yeah, Haji is getting craftier in hiding IEDs not so much among trash, debris and carcass any more, but under roads in the dirt etc. Our guys find and detonate many of these IEDs before they blow others up. Obviously they miss some. And I am sure that weighs heavy on the ordinance teams. But, have you heard about Operation Steel Curtain, Iron Fist or any of the others? Our Marines are taking upwards of 1000 Iraqi troops with them to clear the insurgents’ gateways from Syria into Iraq and to dismantle their strong holds there. When areas like these are not “occupied” by our troops, insurgents can enter Iraq freely. They do so and head down through the Euphrates river valley. We are running them out of there too. When Haji puts up a really fierce fight, you know we are stirring their rats nest and that they are trying to protect it. These operations to push back the insurgents are working. But if you are in doubt, time will tell, and eventually you will hear how successful it was, or was not. How much do you hear about Fallujah any more? It was a strong hold and they cleaned it out. They are doing that now at the border and in the valley.
As I said, you can agree, you can disagree. It doesn’t matter. If anyone who is not on the streets of Iraq forms an ‘opinion’ on what is or is not happening, whether it is or is not effective, and whether they are or are not doing it correctly, or whether it should or should not be done, that person is just an arm chair General. You have to be there to really know. Do I really know? Nope. All I know is what the troops write. My ‘opinion’ of the whole matter of what is happening don’t mean shit. The only thing that matters are the facts. We get those and then we go from there. Of course it is imperative that you make sure that you get your facts from a reliable source who knows intimately what is going on.
FYI Worfeus, I do think you have made a valid point a couple of times, but not regarding the handling of the war. A few hundred comments ago I said that if people could set their hostility, anger and staunch opinions aside and pursue a rational converstaion, both sides could, perhaps, learn something from each other. Well, the screamers and intimidators found something else to do, leaving the reast of you to speak some thoughts. Whether you all are getting anywhere is another issue.
BTW, since when does/should public opinion shape foreign policy and set the course for war? Just because some of the people want us to pull out now does not mean that is the proper action. Public opinion has no place in setting the course for a war. And I venture to guess that the majority of folks who want us to pull out now use the MSM as their “intelligence” source. HUGE mistake there.
One more thing – do you HONESTLY believe we have gone there and made it a point to purposely kill innocent people and bomb their houses just for the hell of it, or just out of sloppiness? To show our muscle and to prove who is in charge????? Why do you think this is happening, if it really is? (Don’t know, not there, but what the hell – my opinion – doubt it)
November 23rd, 2005 at 7:08 pmWorfeus
November 23rd, 2005 at 7:30 pmI would somewhat put myself on the Christian right. BUT that does NOT mean I lie down and eat every thing that is shoveled to me. I agree that our rights are being whittled away and that our Constitution is being, well, ‘rewritten’, mis or wrongly interpreted – how ever you want to describe it. I love my country, but I am not always proud of what she does. I also think that there is a lot of underhandedness under the guise of “it is in our best interest”. It is possible to be a strong Christian on the right and not be a “terrorist” as well. Please give some of us that much.
Cathy
First let me commend you on at least talking to the issues, voicing you opinions clearly and rationally,
and not attacking me personally. I always respond to intelligent debate.
As for you comments however on “they are kicking ass! Bad guy ass that is” I think you have inadvertanly
demonstrated a real problem with those that support this war.
We know for a fact that not everyone fighting our troops are terrorists, evil doers, bad guys. A large population of those fighting are Iraqi young men, who had an aunt, uncle, brother, sister, father, mother or friend killed by our troops. That coupled with peer pressure has created an entire Iraq underground, similar to the Polish resitance in Warsaw. And like the Polish partisans, everytime a member is killed, many more join.
I can honestly say the only way you are ever going to stop the rebellion is to kill every man, women and child. The ancient Spartans knew this, and so do I.
So unless you are willing to kill every man, women and child, there will always be those in Iraq who are not going to believe in you, and your words. Hell you can’t even convince half the US population, do you really believe the Iraqi people are going to sign on to the republican view of the “new Iraq”?
Why do you think so many things like votes and such have occured, and the candidates that are overwhelmingly supported are the ones we want them to choose? And then sometimes, like Chalabi, they buck us. Why do you think it’s like that?
When I was a little boy, I rememeber how the teachers used to get two boys who were fighting to shake hands, and play together. And they did, because they feared the teachers more than each other.
But when the teachers weren’t looking…….
And as for the brave Iraqi troops, you might want to turn on the news. About a half hour ago a group of men dressed in Iraqi army uniforms assasinated Sunni Sheik and his 4 sons.
Witnesses report that the roads around the Sunni’ Sheiks house were blocked by 10 Iraqi Army vehicles.
The Shites will go with us as long as we are killing Sunni’s for them, and you should know that by now. Your certainly smart enough to know that by now.
November 23rd, 2005 at 7:37 pmFor your question :”do you HONESTLY believe we have gone there and made it a point to purposely kill innocent people and bomb their houses just for the hell of it, or just out of sloppiness?”
I think we put our most aggressive soldiers on the front lines. And I think many of them don’t care who they kill. Hell I have neigbors I could say that about so don’t make too much of that. Many Americans are little more than trailer park refuse, who have little concern for human life or humane actions. If it were not so, the murder rate in the US would not be what it is. And it would be foolish of me to think that NONE of these people make it into the military.
I think there are good troops and bad troops. Good Americans, and bad Americans. Good people, and bad people, everywhere. But God help you today if you dare imply that the troops on in Iraq are anything other than guilded saints. At least thats the tonality here in Washington DC. That kind of rhetoric, all the troops are great, or MOST of the troops are great, is what allows countries to wake up and find themselves under martial law.
But I do think there are plenty of good troops, and hopefully, enough to offset the bad.
November 23rd, 2005 at 7:41 pmhitler served his country in WWI; murtha and kerry, the other asshole, served in Vietnam. None of them are hero’s just cowardly assholes that are adept at playing to the emotions of petulant children.
Don’t worry, real men and patriots will save your chiken-asses when the bad guys come.
November 23rd, 2005 at 7:44 pmBTW,
If you doubt that, go rent Farenheit 911, (I know I know, treasoness propaganda, yea yea yea). You don’t even have to watch the movie itslef. Just watch in the bonus features the 30 minutes of footage smuggled out outside of Abu Graib prison, and the footage of the nightime raid.
Watch the soliders, how they treat the old, wounded man, watch how they kick in the door of a college student, knock his grandmother over while his 10 year old sister cries in terror. Watch the cattle trucks haul the prisoners from a previous nites raid, packed in like sardines (kosher maybe?) with plastic bags strapped over their heads, hands tied behind their backs.
Watch, and look inside of that soul God gave you, I know it’s there, I sense it in your tone, and muse back to the words of Jesus Christ, who you claim to call your master.
….”inasmuch as ye have done it unto the Least of these,my brethern, ye have done it unto me”….
November 23rd, 2005 at 7:51 pmNice comment Russell A. Lissuzzo . Now please try to form your words into legible sentences.
I have no idea what you are trying to say.
But if you think were all a bunch of chicken pacifists, think again.
It is the republicans that are so afraid of getting hurt again by terrorists that they would sell our countries very soul to keep themselves safe.
I don’t need to feel so safe. And don’t worry, when the China-Russo alliance drops a few million troops on our soil, you will have the “mans” fight you want, and deserve.
Course you will probably collaborate with them, like you expect the Iraqis to do with you.
November 23rd, 2005 at 7:58 pmAll hail king WORFEUS!
November 23rd, 2005 at 8:17 pmOnly he knows the truth.
He alone is the sole arbiter of what speaks to the issues and what doesn’t.
In one swift glance he is able to invalidate all opposing viewpoints while regurgitating the same old standard liberal rhetoric… I stand in awe of you
Your compelling arguments have really changed me… I think we ought to hug.
Ich denken so nicht
November 23rd, 2005 at 8:23 pmAnd thats usually the stuff I start hearing from you repubs right about now, Tatreau.
Truth stings, don’t it?
November 23rd, 2005 at 8:35 pmWorfeus
Personal attacks get you no where and I refuse to go there.
I that light, how many times did you say ‘I think” – what we think is irrelevant when there are facts, although sometimes difficult to find. And yes, sometimes facts don’t necessarily exist in an ‘easy to read format’ But our thoughts need to be formed on facts whenever possible. And that is why I try to avoid stating what I “think” on certain subjects if I don’t feel I have good facts to back it up. Yep, I am being cautious. And yes, I am a female who can think with her brain, not her emotions – most of the time anyway!!:)
I will agree – there are troops who shame us and hurt our reputation and efforts. There are some who make us damn proud too, hopefully more of them then the prior.
Don’t you think, there I go, that killing all who don’t agree is a little extreme? Would you kill all here who don’t agree with you? Perhaps you’d like to, but would you? ;)
As to what you heard on the radio – well, you heard it from the MSM. Again, the troops will tell you how often reporters either get half the story, mislead or get it wrong. So, as for what happened, hear the story, keep it in mind, and if you want to know if it is fact, you’ll have to DIG AND DIG, as long as OPSEC does not get in the way. But there is a problem with Iraqi resistance joining the new army under the guise of a “good guy”. This has been a problem as they gather intelligence from us, ‘train’ with us then turn traitor and use it against us, the Iraqi army and people. They pretend they are the ‘good’ army and give the ‘good guys’ a bad rep.
After my last comment, I went over to a soldier’s blog that I check on daily. I had to laugh, so to speak, when I saw that his latest topic was directly related to what I spoke of above regarding training. He more or less backed up what I said – of course that is speaking for his unit only. I will not lie when I tell you that I did not read his post until after I posted my comments. I would love to give you his blog address, but I do not want to post it publicly here – I don’t want him to get hate mail. In addition, his unit lost four men three weeks ago and it was incredibly hard on them as one was a commander. He doesn’t need any crap from anyone. He is one of the “good guys”.
November 23rd, 2005 at 8:36 pmBecause Cathy, in the end, it’s all about what we think. You think it was facts and figures that got us into this war?
What we think is what got us into this war, and what we think is all that can get us out of. The facts have been there all along.
November 23rd, 2005 at 8:42 pmAnd BTW, regardless of what I think, I would never send hate mail to one of the troops. Just because we don’t support the war, don’t for a second think we don’t support the troops. Hell were the ones trying to get them home.
November 23rd, 2005 at 8:50 pmOh and BTW, to all 3 of you, Cathy, Tadreau, and MWard, congratulations again. You all 3 once again managed to take the focus off the Murtha PLAN to REDEPLOY the troops to locations just outside of Iraq, where they can STILL support the Iraqi Army on a contingent basis, and not be left in harms way for the Iraqi insurgency to play “whack-a-mole” with, like you want to keep on doing.
Not one of you has said one coherent thing about why moving the troops out of harms way while still supporting the Iraqi army is such a bad idea. But yet you insist on leaving our troops in the middle of the hornets nest, stiring up the bees, and getting stung every day.
You are getting so good at taking us off the topic.
Well done.
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November 23rd, 2005 at 9:19 pmThey say the demonstrative definition of insanity is to repeat the same failed actions over and over, each time expecting different results.
“a patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government”
–Edward Abbey
November 23rd, 2005 at 9:57 pm“those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities”
–Voltaire
November 23rd, 2005 at 9:57 pm“whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he doesn’t become the monster.”
Nietzsche
November 23rd, 2005 at 10:32 pmWORFEUS
Where do you get your facts? Michael Moore and moveon.org? You throw crap out there like a scatter gun and expect everone to deal with it. Did you ever consider that the current plan in Iraq just may be the best one? I’ll say it again… Murtha’s plan is not original and not worth dealing with. There has always been an exit stategy for the war in Iraq. You state inflated statistics and exaggerated casualties that no reputable source recognizes–all the while pretending to care so much for the troops. Your information is so much in lock-step with the rest of the hate Bush/hate Republicans, Al Franken crowd it’s difficult to take you seriously. In addition you’re either unable or unwilling to truly understand the views of those who oppose you. Frankly this is a lesson in futility for me. I don’t believe you would be open minded to any opposing information, no matter who says it–it’s been kind of fun to see you get wrapped around the axle and read all your huffing and puffing though. I should have read Ann Coulters book “How to Talk to a Liberal” (but only if you must) before engaging you.
November 23rd, 2005 at 11:09 pmYea, guess you should have read something
_____________________________________________________
Obviously we are also interested in postwar security arrangements in that part of the world. The President has made it clear that we are not interested in a permanent, or long-term U.S. ground presence, a garrison if you will, on the ground in the Gulf in the Saudi Arabian area. But we are interested in enhanced naval presence. We think we can do that safely. We’ve been operating out of Bahrain since 1949, and will continue to do so.
Secretary of Defense of the United States,
November 23rd, 2005 at 11:17 pmRichard Cheney, April 29th, 1991
Worfeus,
I was not implying you would send hate mail – take a look at the first few hundred comments – that is what I was worried about.
The other night I did post some comments about the Murtha plan, based on what you wrote WAY above here. After I submitted, I checked and my comments were there. The next am, NOT! Guess someone did not like what I had to say.
Anyway, in short, as I have things to do any my eyes are hurting, I have not heard his whole plan right from his mouth – the best source. I don’t have the impression that everyone hates every aspect of his plan. Seriously – when you get past all of the commotion. Setting a time table is the big problem – especially six months.
Our guys will step back as the Iraqis become more capable to carry on alone. It takes constant reassessments to see when the Iraqis can support themselves. But, moving out of the country presents a bunch of logistical problems. You have to move the ENTIRE base -portable buildings, tents, equipment, PX,(stores for service members)folks who staff etc. etc. etc. Need to string electric, internet, etc. Some bases are incredibly big – so big some troops drive a vehicle to get to chow because it is such a long hike. What land do you take over to move on to? Do they live in tents and cans? Are hardened buildings available for several thousand? Moving a base is a PITA!!! And expensive. A hell of a lot of work.
Also, what country? Saudi? Syria? ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! Jordan? Turkey? Iran? Kuwait? We are there, BTW. But if Syria is a highway for the insurgents, through which country are they getting there? Can’t send the troops there. The other problem is, if they are too far away, quick response becomes an issue. Air support is the infantries best friend. They can get places somewhat quickly, but it will take time if they are leaving from the opposite end of the country. And, they need to know precisely where the SOS is comming from – they have to be able to find the Iraqis before the pilot says “Damn Captain, too late. They’re all dead.”
And, lets say they do move out of country, what’s to say Haji doesn’t follow? I suspect IEDs will follow our troops until they are on US soil again, though they are ok in Kuwait – perhaps because the focus is on Iraq.
So, it seems the most reasonable plan would be to hammer away at training. Then, get the Iraqis out with our guys to give them real experience so that they can experience and learn, side by side. (Doing it) Assess. Pull individual units out completely, little by little (no mass withdrawl), as the Iraqi units become self sufficient and are good to go on their own. You can have a target date, among the Generals on the ground, but it has to be flexible. Don’t want Haji to know the plan.
Now, I am not being an armchair general here. Once again, just by reading what the troops are writing, this seems like the most reasonable plan, in my little opinion. Have I made at least a few worthwhile points?
Now, you say you are supporting the troops by bringing them home. Many troops don’t understand that logic – they know you want them home. They want to come home. But they want to finish what they started (of course not all, but a hell of a lot of them) and in their opinion, the opinion that counts the most, the best way you can support them is to send letters of support and care packages. Let them know that you have not forgotten them, that they are in your prayers every day, and that you will stand behind them until THEY say “We’re ready. We are coming home” You want to know the truth? You know how many of them hate Cindy Sheehan? They feel like she is betraying them and stabbing them in the back. But hey, these are not my thoughts or words, they are the troops. Don’t believe me? Start digging and find their blogs. You will find them if you try. So many desperately need to hear “We back you up on staying the course. Do what you have to do and we’ll keep the homefires burning” Find the blogs and read it for yourself. If you don’t want to believe me and you won’t find the blogs, well, I’m sorry. The best way to support the troops is to give them what THEY want and need, not what you think they want and need, and not what you want. Does that make sense? I hope so.
Don’t yell at me for this until you find the blogs and see it for yourself. You will find blogs from those who don’t want to be there. Keep looking till you find the blogs that I am talking about. There are plenty of them!
Now, I have not said one way or another whether I support the war. I have a bunch of “on the other hand”s. What I am doing is supporting the troops by fulfilling their requests. I hope you all can think about this and try to understand.
BTW, please understand as well that many of our troops have grown close to many of the Iraqis that they are training. When I read the soldiers’ post earlier, all I could think was how he sounded like a proud papa when he talked about ‘his’ troops. A bond is there and you will not be able to pry our guys away until they think their counterparts, their friends, are ready.
Please, think about this.
November 23rd, 2005 at 11:20 pmAnd as for this one:
“I’ll say it again… Murtha’s plan is not original and not worth dealing with”
I hate to tell you Tatreau, it’s this pathetic statement that’s not original and not worth dealing with.
That generality says nothing about the plan (which is a great one if you look at it), and does not even address the details of the plan. At least Cathy and M Ward talk to the issues, sometimes.
And as for Michael Moore, Move on.org? Thats all ya got left?
Seems like in this battle of wits, your just about out of amumnition.
Next.
November 23rd, 2005 at 11:31 pmCathy I am thinking about that. You said
### Moving a base is a PITA!!! And expensive. A hell of a lot of work ### Cathy Post 647
So let me see if I understand your reluctance to move the troops out of harms way.
It would cost too much, and it would be too much work, and we would have to move stuff…..
hmmmm
yea, better to let em die.
November 23rd, 2005 at 11:36 pmNo, Worfeus. I did not suggest we leave them there because it is too much trouble to move them!! Did you stop reading there? That is absurd, and I would hope that you can do better than to think after all I wrote, that that is my first concern. Come on. I have friends there, and I have come to care deeply about those who’s blogs I read – we even e-mail. I know others who are in line to deploy. And my concern does not stop with those I know. I do care about all very much, but I also have a personal connection with some
So don’t even go there. If that is the best you can offer, I’m done.
November 23rd, 2005 at 11:49 pmCindy,
What makes you think none of us have friends, or family there? What makes you think we don’t go to the right wing blogs.
As for the best I got? Go back and read your own post. You can’t talk about caring about the troops in one paragraph, and then stall about “moving them out of harms way” in another. The two are inconsistent.
I’m sorry I can’t just role over and agree with you because you are keeping a civil tone, although I “do” respect you for that tone, but while you and I are debating in here, 4 americans and dozens of Iraqi people are being torn apart with bombs and bullets.
This is serious stuff, and it needs serious debate.
I believe in what I say. That’s why I say it.
P.S
Where would we put the troops?
November 24th, 2005 at 12:01 amBahrain, Turkey, Shores of the Persian Gulf, where we have always launched from.
And I did read your whole post BTW.
You said
#other problem is, if they are too far away, quick response becomes an issue. Air support is the infantries best friend. They can get places somewhat quickly, but it will take time if they are leaving from the opposite end of the country#
That’s not true. You need to look at a Map. Except for the Iranian border, we can pretty much get anywhere rather quickly. Weve done it before.
You said
#And, they need to know precisely where the SOS is comming from – they have to be able to find the Iraqis before the pilot says “Damn Captain, too late. They’re all dead.†#
Your knowing where this so called SOS is coming from does not hold water.
See we have this really cool invention now, it’s called GPS. In fact, it’s a common inclusion in any luxury car made in America today. If we supply them to the Iraqi Army, then finding them would be moot. Of course theres that pesky money thing again.
And as for getting there in time?
The idea here is to let the Iraqis deal with the small issues. We would only be responding to large scale operations. No one can argue the Iraqi army, with it’s 2 years of free American training and cache of really cool US weapons, can’t stop a few random terrorist actions, some nite raids, and a few minor uprisings. Most of that stuff is clean up anyway. And that’s all thats happening now.
But IF the insurgents DID rise up, and attack the Iraqi army in force, well gee….I can’t think of a better way to, now whats that your boy calls it, oh year, “smoke em out”.
November 24th, 2005 at 12:14 amBut I do agree with you Cathy, that those are the strategic issues the experts should be working out right now, instead of debating “should we get the troops out of harms way”. Of course we “should”.
Now it’s time to get specific about “how”.
November 24th, 2005 at 12:25 amThanks for the last one. I was beginning to think I wasted my time. Good night.
November 24th, 2005 at 12:39 amOh M WARD, sorry this took so long, but I have been bobbin and weavin here tonight it seems. In your post #618 you asked me to define Quagmire. I gave you the dictionary defenition. But I thought you might find this example of the usage of the word Quagmire in a sentence helpful as well.
Here is one of your imperial leaders using it in a sentence.
“and it’s my view that the President got it right both times, that it would have been a mistake for us to get bogged down in the ‘quagmire’ inside Iraq.”
Dick Cheney, April 29, 1991
November 24th, 2005 at 12:45 amWORFEUS
November 24th, 2005 at 12:47 amI just read some startling information that will cause you to reject Murtha’s plan, as well as any other exit plan…the insurgents in Iraq are actually Republicans! Hope that made you laugh…you seem to be taking this stuff way too seriously. Take care my friend.
Ahh what the heck. No one else is saying much. You might as well read Dick Cheneys words of wisdom a mere 10 years ago on the pitfalls of Iraq, and how stupid it would be to invade.
I gueswish Mr. Cheney would have followed his OWN advice.
_____________________________________________________
I think that the proposition of going to Baghdad is also fallacious. I think if we were going to remove Saddam Hussein we would have had to go all the way to Baghdad, we would have to commit a lot of force because I do not believe he would wait in the Presidential Palace for us to arrive. I think we’d have had to hunt him down. And once we’d done that and we’d gotten rid of Saddam Hussein and his government, then we’d have had to put another government in its place.
What kind of government? Should it be a Sunni government or Shi’i government or a Kurdish government or Ba’athist regime? Or maybe we want to bring in some of the Islamic fundamentalists? How long would we have had to stay in Baghdad to keep that government in place? What would happen to the government once U.S. forces withdrew?
How many casualties should the United States accept in that effort to try to create clarity and stability in a situation that is inherently unstable? I think it is vitally important for a President to know when to use military force.
I think it is also very important for him to know when not to commit U.S. military force. And it’s my view that the President got it right both times, that it would have been a mistake for us to get bogged down in the quagmire inside Iraq.”
Richard Cheney, Soref Symposium, April 29, 1991
_______________________________________________________
amen brother…
November 24th, 2005 at 12:50 amHa ha, thats pretty funny Tatreau. Your a pistol.
November 24th, 2005 at 12:56 am“and the question in my mind is how many additional American casualties is Saddam worth?
And the answer is not very damned many.”
-Richard Cheney, August, 1992
November 24th, 2005 at 12:58 amHAPPY THANKSGIVING!
This just in,
______________________________________________________
Associated Press 3:18 EST
WASHINGTON – The Bush administration and military leaders are sounding optimistic notes about scaling back U.S. troops in Iraq next year, as public opposition to the war and congressional demands for withdrawal get louder.
Contingency plans for a phased withdrawal include proposals to further postpone or cancel the deployment of a Fort Riley, Kan., brigade and an option to put a combat brigade in nearby Kuwait in case it is needed, said a senior Pentagon official.
Associated Press Novemeber 24, 2005
______________________________________________________
Can you dig it?
This is a first, small step in the right direction from the Bush administration. It is a good example of how speaking out can really change the world.
And remember, when they all tell us how this was “their idea” and they planned to do this type of thing all along, and it was just a coincedence that Mr. Murtha just proposed the same thing a few days ago, when they say all that, just remember whats really important.
Happy Thanksgiving everyone. I mean, everyone.
November 24th, 2005 at 3:25 amIt seems to me that the Republican party is destroying itself. Jean Schmidt’s comments clearly underline the drastic measures this party will take just to win and cover up scandall.
We’ve not only been lied to about the war in Iraq, but also about the 2000 election, 9/11, the CIA leak case, Supreme court nominees, FEMA, no-bid contracts (Halliburton), gas prices, the economy, torture chambers, and the war on terrorism … just to name a few.
The polls show that the American public are tired of the corruption, lies and scandalls that this party has brought to them. It’s time for a change and I’m sure that the change will be very noticable come November 2006
I don’t think we have to worry about who will be in control of the congress next year at this time. They have destroyed themselves… what sweet poetic justic!
November 24th, 2005 at 3:07 pmThank GOD that we still have members of congress who have the guts to call a “coward” a “coward”!!. At no time has there ever been a qualified denial by any of the bleeding heart liberal democrats or the veteran wannabes who have responded in in this article that Mr. Murtha has now become a coward by having sold out his past heroics for a disgraced, out-of-power, impotent political party representated by a jack-ass. They only whine & screech their displeasure that the ruse is out in the open now. No democrat has ever said that murtha is NOT a coward… they’re only squalling, screaming & wetting their little panties that now the rest of America knows that he is one, too. At one time, it seems, before,… Mr Murtha was a patriot & had served his country, but now it has been proven that his service was the same as the traitor kerry, who was soundly defeated during the 2004 elections. Whereas kerry should have been executed for staging his 3 purple hearts so he could use his Vietnam service as his ticket into the political system, so has murtha at this time. Thank GOD… once again for Rep. Schmidt who called it EXACTLY as most of us Americans who care for our Country readily agree… murtha’s actions, now that he has sold his morals out, are dispicable, traitorus, & UN-American. The GOP certainly jerked the democrats’… ‘panties’ out of their butts… by forcing them to either put up or SHUT UP…!!! They should be supporting our troops in harm’s way instead of playing politics for the 2006 & 2008 elections. It now seems that the GOP should pick up about 12 Senate seats & app. 29 House seats this coming election, as most of America now realizes just how much of a coward most of the liberal traitors have become. But, hey, it’s not a total ’shoo-in’ yet… look at the New York electons for theit last Senator elections for Senators… that state elected two of the stupidest, shoddiest, criminal-minded, misfits in the history of our elections. May GOD have mercy on America & protect us from such cowards as murtha, Underwater-swimmer (hic)kennedy, KKK (Grand Cyclops), dementia-byrd, hillary-slut & the other gang members who hate America.
November 24th, 2005 at 11:42 pmEmerson,
Next time your gonna want to break the pills in half….
November 25th, 2005 at 1:57 amI now appears that Rep.J.Schmidt not only lied to Congress about what someone told her to say but she also holds a degree in Political Science. Therefore, she should know the rules of the house but instead gives higher education a bad name. If she was so hot on the war why does she not convince her 27 year old daughter to serve in the arm forces. In fact, why not have all the Cheney,Bush daughers join the fight in Iraq?
November 25th, 2005 at 7:43 pmThat is amazing he has not talked one of them into enlisting. Imagine the boost in approval is one of his two little knuckleheads went to Iraq.
I can here him now, “common Jen, it’ll help daddy in the polls”…
November 25th, 2005 at 10:35 pmTokyo Governor Shintaro Ishihara said in an address to the Washington-based Center for Strategic and International Studies—that America has a civic society that must adhere to the value of respecting lives, and cannot win a war against China. After 2,000 casualties, he said, the U.S. military would be forced to withdraw. This assessment has been relayed to U.S. government officials over the past few months by countries such as Australia, Japan and South Korea. The world is watching and they get the message loud and clear that America is weak. If we don’t have the stomach and the courage to complete the mission in Iraq, then we are signing our own death sentence as a Superpower. The consequences of early withdrawal and failure are as great as they are far-reaching. We are countering an unprecedented global fanaticism in the war on terror, and I fear that those who would have us withdraw from Iraq are only thinking of now, and not the big picture. If the war detractors were to have their way, I’m afraid that we will end up paying a terrible price for it—maybe that’s what it will take for some people to finally understand.
November 26th, 2005 at 1:27 pmTatreau,
The great lie here, which you insist on perpetuating, is that we want to “cut-n-run”.
We never wanted to be there in the first place. But after scheisskohps like yourself, we are in the mess now.
We are just offering a better, alternative strategy to helping the Iraqi people and stabilizing the region. We are talking about redeploying the troops out of harms way, but close enough to still support the Iraqi Army.Just go back and read the 10 dozen posts on this topic.
Oh yea, you won’t do that. You’ll just keep perpetuating your little propaganda lie. What a good little goosestepper you are.
November 26th, 2005 at 3:15 pmAnd BTW, what in the pathetic pea you call a brain makes you think we would listen to you knuckleheads who got EVERYTHING wrong about what would happen if we went into Iraq, about what you say will happen if we pull out?
With that kind of logic, I bet you can’t wait to go hire your boy Mike Brown to help you plan for disasters. He is doing that now you know, which is the funniest thing I have heard all year. He’s a typical right winger, can’t understand how bad he f#$**ked things up the first time, so he just keeps on screwing crap up.
It has been said, that “it is not a wise man who cannot learn from the mistakes of others, but it is a fool, who cannot learn from his own”
November 26th, 2005 at 3:19 pm“fool me once, shame on you…
fool me twice…………….
…can’t git fooled again”
-George “Dubya” Bush
November 26th, 2005 at 3:21 pmYou know, I just can’t stop.
You crafty little wormwood you,you cunningly and greasily laid in that other dirty little lie, that lie that says that Iraq was somehow part of our struggle against “ain’t bin laden in a while”, and Alqeada.
Don’t remember saying that? Here, let me help you Tatreau.
In Post number (interestingly enough) #666, you said;
### We are countering an unprecedented global fanaticism in the war on terror, and I fear that those who would have us withdraw from Iraq are only thinking of now, and not the big picture. ###
Either you are brainwashed by your manchurian candidate, or you are a puppet of the new tausand jarh reich. Because everytime you guys want to argue Iraq, you always tie it with the war on terror, which until you invaded it, never had anything to do with Iraq.
Remember what Jesus said about that whole “bearing false witness against your neighbor” thingy?
November 26th, 2005 at 3:36 pmmy biggest bitch is whos bright idea is it to “strike” her comments from the official record? talk about changing history. geeezzz
her remarks should be left on the permanant record for the people of the future to see and read.
changing things like this makes a mockery of the system. if they are going to sensure/change statements said,,why not just have writers fabricate the entire record for historys sake?
this is sickening.
November 27th, 2005 at 2:31 amWorfeus,
I have to say that you’re quite poetic in the way you hurl insults–but they all miss the mark. No one has ever said that we went into Iraq to fight the war on terror, or because of 9/11. Yet people like you keep insisting that people like me believe that. Iraq just happens to be one of the battlegrounds for the war on terror now, thanks to the INSURGENTS! not us. I’ll never understand why the left in this country will side with terrorists and put the blame on America. The purpose of my earlier posting was to point out that the anit-war / Bush lied propaganda that the unbalanced media has been perpetuating, has served to weaken our image as a nation. If we are ever drawn into a conflict in the future, our enemies know that if thay can inflict 2000 casualties that it will cause an uproar in our society–demanding our withdrawl from the conflict. Now before you get your undies in a wad WORFEUS–I know that you are not supporting immediate withdrawl from Iraq. You are supporting a rational approach to backing our troops out and transitioning sovereignty back to Iraq. However people who share your views do not have the loudest voice. It has been the Cindy Sheehans and the anti-war protestors that have been ampified by the media, and the reasons why other nations are viewing us as weak. I am concerned by this. I would think that you would be too.
November 27th, 2005 at 11:11 amThank you, Mr. Murtha, we understand that you were a war criminal in Vietnam. And that many of these writers had parents who protested your service in Vietnam.Thank you for helping us, we will do our part by killing as many Americans as we can, to help you see that terror will work when the people lose their will. See you in New York after you leave Iraq.
November 27th, 2005 at 1:30 pmShukran, cus umak.
Abu Musaab al-Zarqawi
One more thing WORFEUS,
November 27th, 2005 at 5:34 pmYou completely have your head up your butt on Mike Brown. The whole Katrina debacle was the the fault of Mayor Nagin, and Governor Blanco. They failed to do their jobs and blamed FEMA. Democratic activists and their willing accomplices in the media pounced on this opportunity to give Bush a black eye. You obviously took the bait–hook, line and sinker. Everyone knows that evacuations and deployment of the National Guard are state and local government responsibilities. But hey… why bother with the truth if you can get away with blaming it all on Bush and FEMA. Oh by the way… it was Moses who said to not bear false witness aginst your neighbor in Exodus 13:16, not Jesus. You can’t even get that right, but seeing that you like to quote scripture, here’s one for you;
Proverbs 15:2 The tongue of the wise uses knowledge rightly, But the mouth of fools pours forth foolishness.
I really should’nt, since you just wrote it and are to stupid to see it, but here let me help you one more time
You said;
“We are countering an unprecedented global fanaticism”
which is an obvious reference to the ONLY global fanaticism to recently strike us, 911
and in the same sentence you continued with;
“and I fear that those who would have us withdraw from Iraq are only thinking of now, and not the big picture”
drawing a subtle, yet clear association with 911 and Iraq.
This is just one of many that you and your gang have left in here, and everywhere, and that the Bush admin has spewed for the last 4 years. In fact, John Warner (R) just tryed to reaffirm the link on Meet the Press this morning, telling Tim Russert, “oh there was a link, I said it, and I stand by it”.
I am done tap dancing to your out and out lies. When you’ve got something intelligent to say, ping me, but until them, go find someone else to play little word games with, you neocon schmuck.
November 27th, 2005 at 11:13 pmOh and if you ever want to question my knowledge of the Bible, I will be happy to accomodate you. I think you will find I know little bit about it.
“thou shalt not bear false witness”
Matthew, 19:18.
Jesus was quoting the second book of the Torah when he recalled to the rich young ruler the commandents that were necessary for admitance into the kingdom, and although it was said first there, I usually choose to quote Jesus, since he is the one most of you warmongering, bloodthristy heros seem to claim to follow.
November 27th, 2005 at 11:51 pmBlah Blah Blah Worfeus. I can only shake my head at your inability to process information. It’s truly amazing to watch you assign your own warped interpretations to every opinion that opposes yours. You are nothing but a pseudo-intellectual liberal with zero tolerance for anything conservative. Your hate-filled postings here make you look like a rabid little dog, foaming at the mouth. If your eyes weren’t rolled towards the back of your head you might be able to see things clearly. You still can’t see that Murtha’s plan is a counterfeit. All we are seeing with this is the politicizing of the war. Bush’s opponents realize that he is having success in Iraq and they can’t allow that when they have been criticizing him all along. So they rush to the forefront with Murtha’s plan when Bush has had an exit strategy all along! Why? So they can take credit for bringing the troops home in hopes of it affecting them positively at the ballot box. I’m also not impressed with your so-called Bible knowledge. What good is it to know something about the Bible, but not believe what it says? Oh I know… it’s so that you can appear to be a nuanced pseudo-intellectual! What a ridiculous concept—you reading the Bible! That’s like a pervert reading someone else’s mail. Reading your postings is just like watching The Wizard of Oz. You keep trying to project this Great and Terrible image, but behind the curtain you’re just a sad pathetic little man—you have my pity.
November 28th, 2005 at 7:44 amCathy,
I thought you were so “holier than thou” on your “Post-I agree” stance. Remember the one about not posting anything racist? Yet in your posts #s 626 and 647 you refer to Iraqi resistance fighters as “Haji” (a derogatory term obviously purloined from the “Johnny Quest” series from years ago, referring to the dark skinned side kick). You also talk about the “lack of courage” of the Iraqis asserting that only the “American soldier” (and I can see your image of the WASP, camouflaged, square-jawed, clean-cut soldier weapon at the ready) as possessing any courage.
You are obviously a right wing, Al-Cracka, Bush- worshipping, Stepford wife, whose only exposure to courage has been your first romp in the back seat of your boyfriend’s Chevy, your wedding day, and the subsequent trips to your OB-GYN for pre and post-natal visits. Stop posting those long, worthless dissertations on military strategy and courage, conjured in the comfort of your warm, ultra-modern, comfortable suburban home, while diddling the time away until your master (hubby) comes home to demand you perform like the puppet you are. People like you (who don’t know the first thing about war, death, hardship or courage) and pontificate on them as though they were Mars himself make me sick!
M. Ward – how many “heads” (of innocent Iraqi men, women, children, infants, and the elderly) do you figure rolled during shock and awe?
You ignorant, racist, Al-Cracka, Bushite worshippers-M. Ward, Cathy, Emerson et al. (and YOUR families) deserve to be “liberated” exactly like you’ve “freed” the Iraqis.
November 28th, 2005 at 9:11 amWow big papa…Why the vicious attack on Cathy? that was way below the belt–and totally uncalled for. You owe her an apology.
November 28th, 2005 at 10:58 amMTatreau,
This is not politics as usual, people are dying and this country’s future is in serious political, financial, and spiritual jeopardy because of the ineptitude, avarice, and inhumanity of those in power and those who blindly follow them. Anyone who has an inkling of what war (and killing) is really about (and it’s obvious you, Cathy and the rest of you Bush worshipping, sit-at-home-and-pontificate-the-war scum don’t) understands that this “Iraq war” is a crime against God and humanity (mass murder-for-profit) perpetrated by your false political gods Bush-Cheney- under the once honorable- now tainted- American flag. If you’d take your heads out of Bush’s and Cheney’s nether regions, step outside the confines of your inbred suburban cul-de-sacs, and breathe some fresh air, you might be able to take a more informed position on America’s (and the world’s) current Bushite dilemma.
Those of you who still support this criminal junta- after the exposed Bush-Cheney lies and skulduggery concerning the 2000 and ‘04 elections, 9/11, Iraq (Halliburton), and every other foreign and domestic policy debacle they’ve created- are more of an enemy to REAL Americans than any terrorist could ever be. You don’t believe in democracy, you believe in Bush-before-God, Republican Party-before-country, “me-before-anybody/thing else”(greed-is-good), these are the morals and values you (and your right wing, Bush-Cheney worshipping, inbred sheep) espouse.
I owe Cathy, M. Ward, Emerson, you and all of your kind my condemnation, disappointment, disapproval and enmity as you are believers in everything I despise. Is that apologetically (clear) enough for you MTatreau?
November 28th, 2005 at 11:45 amYou’re quite the lion behind the keyboard aren’t you big papa. You’re even more warped and twisted than WORFEUS… You know reasonable people can disagree and still have respect for one another–but you’re not reasonable are you. I know this probably hasn’t occured to you, but words actually have meaning–yet somehow liberals such as yourself take an opposing viewpoint and leap to a radical conclusion that doesn’t even remotely resemble the writers position. Do us all a favor get that plate in head your checked… I think you might be experiencing some cranial swelling.
November 28th, 2005 at 12:08 pmMTatreau,
Anonymity is but a mere formality, one that admittedly allows for brazenness and ferocity that (among some) might not otherwise be so expressed. However, make no mistake anonymity can be shed with the least bit of ingenuity- that is to say- you show me yours, and I’ll show you mine…plate that is- anytime.
As for “agreeably disagreeing” with each other, people agreeably disagree on which sports team, spirit, or music is better. War, treason, racism, class warfare, and political corruption (and the misery they invariably create) are life and death issues. My passion and anonymous lionhearted pronouncements and protestations are- however misguided and insulting- proportional to the seriousness of this subject: Bush and his systematic destruction of America.
If you knew me, I am sure you would be most thankful for the anonymity and mere verbosity of the rantings I post, as they do somewhat soothe the aching and reduce the cranial swelling around the plate in my head. Yet i submit that even with the physical injury to my head, I am still able to think clearer and with abundantly more reason than you (and by implication your kind).
November 28th, 2005 at 1:11 pmshe is the coward for saying something like that,she thought it would make her look good but it didn’t it just made her look like an a$$
November 28th, 2005 at 1:17 pmLike I said Tatreau, when you have something intelligent to say to me, say it.
I have no respect for a lying sack of crap like you, or you stupid arguments, lie “The war is going well and Bush is making progress, or that Mike Brown is not to blame for his own incompentence, man you are not just stupid, your criminally stupid.
November 28th, 2005 at 2:01 pmAnd BTW,
What I believe in the Bible, or don’t, is none of your business Tatreau. The fact is I don’t claim to be some sort of Christian, like so many of your goosestepping gang. I just happen to know the book better than you, your buddies, Falwell, Robertson, and the whole crowd of priestcraft pushing hypocrites.
And I will be happy to go toe to toe in any type of Bible based debate with anyone who thinks that Jesus is “on their side” in killing the Iraqi people.
I’m always up for reasonable debate, but I can’t abide morons who think Mike Brown was not the eee-pit-O-mee of whats wrong with the republican party.
Kinda makes me want to join the Dems.
November 28th, 2005 at 2:23 pmbig papa, you are assuming that Bush is systematically destroying America. That is only your opinion–one that your’e entitled to, but is not shared by the majority. In fact you are assuming an awful lot. You assume that you’re smarter than me and my kind. You’re assuming that your scathing rhetoric is warranted, and you automatically assume that you’re right and all conservatives are wrong. How arrogant of you. You might have some thought provoking viewpoints, but you’re so condecending that no one in their right mind will listen to you. Assuming that you live in this country, you should keep in mind that conservatives are still your fellow Americans–not the enemy.
November 28th, 2005 at 2:34 pmHe is smarter than you.
He’s smart enough to know that the enemy within, is far more dangerous to America than any terrorist bomb.
November 28th, 2005 at 2:55 pmSuch grand assertions WORFEUS! I follow religious debates very closely. I’ve been reading various positions on doctrine and theology for years–funny how I’ve never heard of you. Yet you claim to know more than practically everyone! you don’t even exhibit a rudimentry understanding of God, His Sovereignty, how He has established the nations, How He does what He pleases with them, and how He has historically used nation to judge nation. Yet you have the audacity to beat your chest and make wild claims that you know you can never back up. I don’t do debates, but I seriously doubt that you could survive a moderated debate with cross examination on this subject. It is you that should think of something intelligent to say. In the meantime you ought to shut your pie hole and quit posting on this site.
November 28th, 2005 at 3:03 pmI will post where I feel you nazi putz, anytime, anywhere, as long as our words are still free.
You have not heard of me, because I am just another joe shmoe. I don’t claim any great position in life, nor am I a priest, preacher or prophet.
But I do know more about the life and teachings of Jesus Christ, than you, or any of the aforementioned hypocrites who claim mighty works in his name.
For instance I know that when Jesus came here, it was to “get us back on course” and the first thing he did when he got here was to condemn ALL the religious leaders of his time. Then he told any who would listen, to forget about focusing on the letter of the law, and start focusing on the spirit of the law.
Jesus didn’t give a crap how many steps you walked on the Sabbath, or how often you went to synagogue. He did not care if you knew which verse of the Pentateuch that dealt with priestly sacrifice, or how flowery one could recite a public prayer.
All he cared about, was that we stop fighting and killing, get along with each other, both “Jew and Gentileâ€, that we care for the poor, not react imprudently to attacks, find ways other than war to work out our differences, do NO harm to each other, and improve ourselves and the lives of those around us.
But those words, the words of a pacifist, the words condemning strife and contention, condemning religious hypocrisy, and lust of power and wealth, those words, were enough for the “civilized people†to nail him to a tree and watch him die on Golgotha.
And it is obvious to me, that you war mongering, proud and mighty, righteous and zealous Christian warriors, you Knights of the Templar, who believe that Christ wants them to “kill the enemy†in his name, would likely kill him again, if he dared to speak out against your “holy war†on Iraq, if he dared to say, “turn the other cheek†again, or “be harmless as dovesâ€. If he dared to point out the lunacy in thinking you can make good fruit come out of this bad tree you have planted. If he dared to preach peace.
You would probably have a hard time crucifying him though, but maybe you could just waterboard him.
November 28th, 2005 at 3:31 pmJesus came here to save His people you pontificating idiot, not to get us back on course or to preach peace. He was crucified because it was God’s will, it fulfilled prophecy, and it was the price that had to be paid for all those who will believe, you confused, self-righteous fool. The Jews who called for His death were ultimately incensed by Jesus’ claims of equality with God, not because He condemned strife and contention, you ignorant, self-serving, blathering moron. Stop pretending to have understanding in this area. You are WAY out of your league. You’re better off sticking to your anit-Bush kook conspiracy theories, and supporting the sloganeering, bumper-sticker campaigning Democrats.
November 28th, 2005 at 4:18 pmYea, your pretty much gone. If you think Jesus didn’t preach peace, what was all that “blessed are the peacemakers” or ” if thy neighbor smite the on the right cheek, offer him the left”, or “resist not evil”?
See stupid, there’s no secret hidden warrior code there, when he said “blessed are the peacemakers” HE MEANS “blessed are the peacemakers”.
And when he sid the “meek shall inherit the earth” he did NOT mean, the “mighty shall inherit the earth”
Like I said schmuck, I know more about the life and teaching of Christ on my worst day, than you, and your goosestepping nazi worshipping warmongering anti-christ murdering peices of shit ever will.
I never said I followed his teaching though asswipe, I just said I knew them. And you hypocrites are the crap and scum of the world, that has murdered and killed in the name of righteousness and religion, since mankind has recorded history.
In fact, there is absolutely NO differnece between you and Bin Laden and Alqeada. You both are sick twisted murderers, nothing more. And your day is coming.
I’ll see you at the fish fry asshole.
November 28th, 2005 at 4:44 pmAnd yea, you probably believe it was Gods will that he was crucified, but the facts are, that stupid, murdering peices of shit like you, vermin who would kill another man for his words killed him.
God didn’t drive in the nails, men did. God didn’t spear him to see if he was dead, men did. And God did’nt condemn him in the first place, men did.
But that delusion, is what has perpuated the constant killing in the name of him, Christ, Allah, Jaweh, Elohim, and every other one you guys latch onto to commit your evil.
Go ahead, keep babbling your dribble, you cheap hack.
November 28th, 2005 at 4:58 pmIt’s amazing to me how you focus on his death, instead of his teachings.
Funny how repubs always seem to overlook that whole “sermon on the mount” thing.
Jesus came to teach, first and foremost. He was the greatest teacher who ever lived.
And he taught us to watch out for you and your kind.
“wolves in sheeps clothing” he called you. “with their lips they honor me, but their hearts are far from me”.
When the apostles asked him how to tell these “wolves in sheeps clothing” that would be so abundent in the last days, these false prohpets who claimed mighty works in his name.
He gave us one, simple, flawless formula.
He said “by their FRUITS ye shall know them”.
November 28th, 2005 at 5:16 pmn weve all seen your fruits. When you guys took over you were handed a 1.6 Trillion dollar surplus, which you immediately burned a whole in lil Georgies pocket, so he handed it out to the people, a few bucks here, a few bucks there. He squandered it overnight.
Other fruits you have produced include the largest deficit ever, 200 Billion dollars and counting to go kill Iraqi’s, an across the board reduction in programs for the poor, while tax cuts for the wealthy are handed out without check ( no wonder Jesus told us that it would be “easier for a camel to go through the eye of the kneedle, then for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God”, but I bet you ignore that one don’t you?), mass genocide in where you have now killed 30 times those killed on 911 in your bloodthirsty invasion of Iraq, you have introduced torture as a viable solution to terrorism, advocated imprisonment without writ or demonstrable cause, bombing of civilian targets, lies, secrets and many other evils on the US and on the peoples of the world.
These are the fruits of the so called, Mighty Christian Right, and by those fruits, we know you.
November 28th, 2005 at 5:26 pmYou’re frothing again WORFEUS. You wouldn’t know Christ if He replied to one of your comments, and you know nothing of me judging by your constant misrepresentations and stereotypes. I doubt that even He could get through that thick head of yours. By your own words you claim to not be a follower, but you turn around and use the things Jesus said to bolster your pathetic world view. There’s nothing that you won’t twist in your evil little hands is there. Was it alright with you Mr. Know it all that a war was fought for our own independence? Was it ok with you that people actually died for it. Oh by the way… we had a civil war too. Was that alright with you? I don’t know if it occurred to anyone to consult the great WORFEUS as to which wars are ok, and which ones weren’t. Would it be ok with you if the Iraqi people could be independent too? Please? Please? You make me sick. There’s nothing more putrid than a non-follower of Christ claiming to know more than those who do follow him. The Bible which you suppossedly know better than anyone, teaches that God established all the nations. If He ordained their existance, then He also ordained the means to their existance, such as wars and death. I guess God never consulted the great Worfeus either! I think you ought to straighten Him out about this. You act as if war and killing are applauded by Christians, like we rub our hands together in glee everytime it occurs. Wrong! Pull your head out and listen… a Christian by definition believes in something bigger than himself. This should be obvious, but you are pretty dense. No one claims to have all the answers,(except for you)so we have to trust that God is in control–even when we don’t understand what is happening and why. You see, what cockroaches like you don’t understand is that truth is parallel–especially when it comes to God. But go ahead–run from the light like a good cockroach, and don’t forget to continue claiming to be enlightened while you’re running.
November 28th, 2005 at 6:46 pmI wonder how appalled if you actually saw what Christ looked like. He was a Jew after all, not a Caucasian in the sense you think of. He would have looked more like a Hasidic than the pretty Anglo-Saxon pictures you guys ogle in Sunday school. Most eyewitness accounts, which are few, had him as a large man, with a wide back and strong hands, which makes sense giving the fact that unlike common knowledge, he was no carpenter. See the actual word that was translated in the King James translation of the New Testament, is tekton.
Tekton actually means “a craftsman who builds” and while was usually associated with home builders it is pivotal to understand that the building materials of Israel were primarily rocks and cut stones, so it is commonly believed that Jesus was a Stone Mason, not a carpenter (a pivotal concept in the Masonic order).
Being a stone mason, Jesus was a big man, which may explain his capability to sustain an unusual amount of flogging by the roman lictors, purportedly 39 lashes, an amount that would kill a lesser man. See the Romans used a short whip, known as a “flagrumâ€. The flagrum would allow two lictors to alternate lashes across the back and buttocks and thighs, and avoid an accidental “death blow†to a major artery of vital organ. (an interesting note, is that the flagrum was normally used as an instrument of “torture†by the Roman military to extract information from a suspect, bet you guys would feel right at home with one of those).
But even a large man like Jesus was no match for Roman cruelty. Fortunately though, Jesus did appear to either posses superhuman powers, or a weak disposition, because he was able to die before the literal “knee breakers†came along to do their dirty work. As I am sure you are aware, most of those crucified died from suffocation, common to contrary belief. The position of the body, suspended by a nail between the wrist bones, and one through the ankle bone, made breathing impossible unless the crucified victim rose up on his heels, using his arms to lift himself, to get breath. As they hung on the cross, normally for days, the crucified man would loose the will, or capability to raise themselves, and gradually, they would suffer from suffocate.
Of course, the Romans were benevolent occupiers of the Jewish nation, and although they instituted their own military occupying government, they allowed the Jews to retain their own belief systems, laws and rituals, temples and even their own form of Government. Of course, like our handpicking of the Iraqi government meaning we literally approve who they can vote for, so did Rome pick the rulers the Jewish people would be subject to, from amongst their eligible heritage. The infamous King Herod, who slew John the Baptist, was such a ruler. And Roman procurator Pontius Pilate was their Paul Wolfowitz. But other than Pilate and a garrison of troops, the Jews still governed themselves. But the council, the Sanhedrin, did not posses the power to institute capital punishment. This right, the right to kill, was reserved to the Romans. The benevolent Romans, who had come to institute regime change, and collect tariffs. They cared little of Jewish doctrine or spirituality.
So when public crucifixions were performed close to the Sabbath, the Romans would literally break the kneecaps of those being crucified, which had the effect of restricting their ability to lift themselves up, and thus breathe. This kept the unclean crosses from bearing bodies on the Sabbath, but still gave the self righteous Romans their fun. After all, after a day or two with nails driven through your ankles and wrists, it would be nice to just suffocate, rather than suffer the added excruciating agony of having your knees broken with a giant hammer. But when the man with the big ugly club got to Jesus, it appeared he had already passed on. Now he could have broken his knees too, and thus discrediting an ancient prophecy that not a bone of the Messiah would be broken, but since Jesus appeared to be dead, stopping him from rising up and down to breathe, seemed futile. So he instead thrust in a long spear, and water flooded out (indicating a literal broken heart, but that’s another, long medical story).
In a nutshell the educated, “civilized Romans, the government of the day, the “good guysâ€, were mercilessly brutal, cold and efficient. Much like the right winged war machine of today.
The fact that you think I know nothing about the Bible, or as you put it, am in way over my head, while not the issue, is laughable.
I do not however go to church, and I do not belong to a religion. Hell I don’t even call myself a Christian.
But I learned about the Bible every day growing up, and over a quarter of a century ago I studied under some of the most learned scholars from Catholic University and others, that you have ever heard of.
And I like I said, I know more about the life of Christ and his teachings on my worst day, than you do on your best.
November 28th, 2005 at 6:55 pmAnd the reason I quote him?
After listening to Dubya and the entire repugnican party (can you say, Rick Santorum?)quote him from the bully pulpit for the last 5 years, I decided it was time someone who KNEW something about it finally speak up.
November 28th, 2005 at 6:58 pmBTW Tatreau, I’m done posting in this one. If you want to chew me out some more, you’ll need to look for me in more current blogs.
Asta buddy
November 28th, 2005 at 7:57 pmToo bad, Worfeus bailed… Just when Democrat Senator Lieberman gets back from a FIRST HAND visit of Iraq…
“About two-thirds of the country is in really pretty good shape,” he said, noting most attacks are in the so-called “Sunni Triangle” region. “Overall, I came back encouraged.”
He cautioned, however, that “prematurely” pulling out U.S. forces would jeopardize the progress made thus far.
But I’m sure Senator Lieberman is just drinking the Bush Kool-Aid, isn’t he?
REDEPLOYMENT, WITHDRAWAL, CUT-AND-RUN, they’re synonymous terms. They ALL mean U.S. Troops out of Iraq.
If that’s what you support, FINE (you have EVERY RIGHT to think that, want that, support that) – just SAY IT…
This constant attempt to re-define terms into more palatable terms (like calling yourself a “Progressive†rather than a Liberal) is just smoke and mirrors…
Call it whatever you like…
Seventy percent of people said that criticism of the war by Democratic senators hurts troop morale – with 44 percent saying morale is hurt “a lot,” according to a poll taken by RT Strategies.
Even self-identified Democrats agree: 55 percent believe criticism hurts morale, while ONLY 21 percent say it helps morale.
A majority of those polled believe the motive is really to “gain a partisan political advantage.”
You and Mr. Murtha are in the minority… BUT, you have every right to be wrong!
November 29th, 2005 at 3:05 pmSorry…
Forgot these Liberman quotes…
“We cannot let extremists and terrorists, a small number, here in Iraq deprive the 27 million Iraqis of what they want which is a better freer life, safer life for themselves and their children” Lieberman said after his meeting with Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Jaafari.
The cost of success in Iraq would be high “but the cost for America of failure in Iraq would be catastrophic — for America, for the Iraqi people and I believe for the world.”
“There was little support in the Senate and the House for Rep. John Murtha’s call for an immediate pullout of U.S. troops.”
What’s that? “immediate pullout”? Not “redeployment”?
Hummm… I guess Senator Lieberman didn’t get the talking points memo while he was in Iraq.
November 29th, 2005 at 3:12 pmI didn’t bail M. Ward, I just moved on to newer more current Blogs.
This one is about Schmidt, and is old news.
Look for me in the newer posts, like the Oreilly or other ones. You can chew me out in there.
Oh and since you keep forgetting, I am NOT a democrat, and I don’t give a shit what Joe Blow Whinerman says about Iraq. He has been on my shitlist since the 2000 election.
I wouldn’t vote for Whinerman for Sanitation Superintendent in my county.
But if you think it’s so great over there, then why don’t you take the wife and kids there for the holidays? You could stay at the Bagdhad Hilton, that is of course if there are any rooms not on fire.
See you in the funny pages buddy.
November 29th, 2005 at 4:33 pmIt is not surprising. Another republican yes man (woman in this case). This woman didn’t win her seat. Another fixed Ohio race. Well one thing is for certain, she’ll lose next time. Even the diehard Ohio republicans are angry now. Why don’t we vote for politicians that define how they plan to make our communities a better place to live. We vote on party, on hatred of gays, fear of God, and other b/s. It shows that most Ohioians don’t believe in evolution. They haven’t evolved. It shows they don’t support education, as they are more ignorant than generations before them. Who’d want to move into such a backwards state? Only narrow minded, backwards hicks.
December 2nd, 2005 at 5:55 pmMurtha is at best deflecting his own ethics problems and at worst sedition. What a usefull idiot.
December 3rd, 2005 at 2:52 am[This is a comment on comment #1].
>#1
>Marines don’t decide if we fight wars.
>Neither does Schmidt.
>Comment by Average TV Viewer — November 18, 2005 @ 6:46 pm
Actually, Schmidt and her 534 colleagues do!
Only congress has the power to declare war.
December 3rd, 2005 at 12:34 pmAnd, if the president exceeds his authority, congress is still holding the purse strings, loose though they be.
From Post #31: “Bubp is still on active duty in the Marine Reserves and he’s not that old a guy. If Murtha’s the coward, why did Bubp have to send a woman to deliver the message, and why isn’t Bubp over in Iraq, where his experience and expertise could be doing some actual good. We know who the true cowards are.”
1. Bubp didn’t “have to send” a woman to deliver the message, but, unless I am sadly mistaken, not everyone is allowed to get up on the floor of the House of Representatives and speak – that right is restricted to the elected members of that body.
2. Also, did it ever enter into your mind that perhaps Bubp’s period of service had ended, and he was discharged? Re-enlistment IS voluntary, you know; no one is compelled to re-enlist! Since the poster of message 31 is obviously against the war in Iraq, I would think that Bubp’s decision not to stay there would make him a hero, as he got out and came home, rather than “squander” his efforts fighting “an illegal” war……..
It appears that the posters here are driven more by a singleminded hatred of George Bush than anything else…..I have not always agreed with Democratic politicians, but I nver HATED them simply for existing and winning elections!
December 6th, 2005 at 11:57 am[...] Later on the news, I saw some of the cable networks covering Representative Jack Murtha, the Pennsylvania Democrat and 37-year Marine Corps veteran who advocates setting a date for troop withdrawal. (The most junior member of the House, Represenative Jean Schmidt, who’s been in Congress all of a few months, i.e. since Aug. 2, called Murtha a coward, rightly sending Democrats running across the aisle shouting her down). Rep. Murtha rebutted the President’s speech and laid out his reasons for why he takes the position he takes. While I don’t agree with him either about setting a timetable for withdrawal, it encouraged me quite a bit to see this kind of intelligent, point-counter point from our leaders about an issue of such importance. This is the way it is supposed to happen…each side laying out their position and the reasons for why they believe it. Never should any side suggest, explicitly or implicitly, that the position taken by the other side is unpatriotic, cowardly, or even treasonous simply because it is in disagreement with the President in a time of war. The more honorable and righteous, albeit more difficult path is to get back up on the soapbox and explain why you are right and the other person is wrong. Instead of having his attack dogs implicitly suggest that Rep. Murtha is unpatriotic or cowardly for his opinions, the President is finally playing the game the Framers of the 1st Amendment intended: fighting speech with more speech. Whether he is doing so now because he realized attacking a distinguished veteran will not play well, or simply because it is the only avenue he had not tried yet, I do not know. However, what I saw yesturday made me hopeful. [...]
December 13th, 2005 at 6:27 pm[...] The Ohio congresswoman who called Jack Murtha a “coward” says she “got a round of applause at a recent closed-door meeting” of House conservatives. She’s also received marriage proposals: “It’s amazing. There have been three marriage proposals and lots of dates. They think I’m a hottie,” she said. 4:53 pm | Comment (91) [...]
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December 20th, 2005 at 10:22 pmDear mrs. Schmidt
December 21st, 2005 at 12:09 pmI am a stutdent at Fayetteville Perry high school and I am doing a report for my personal development class. The class is very involved in F.C.C.L.A.(Family Career and Community Leaders of America)which is all about creating good self esteem, good citizen rolls, and becoming more involved with the family. My report is called power of 1 and one of the five sections is that I need to speek out for F.C.C.L.A. and I am choosing to speak out to you and tell you what a good program it is. Check into it.
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December 30th, 2005 at 6:45 pmWe certainly are lucky to have Murtha willing to speak up and try to get our soldiers home alive.
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January 18th, 2006 at 5:49 pmFun website.
January 27th, 2006 at 11:18 amJean Schmidt is superior to Paul Hackett. You cronic cancerous liberals that continue to complain and degrade this country are truely embarrasing to this nation. You are or will probably be the supporters of the next Anti-Christ. May God help us all even your lost souls. Finally, this final challenge: Jack Murtha, having been a Marine you know Marines need no one to fight for them in battle even in politics. I challenge you if you truely believe in your statement on “Meet The Press”: “…he doesn’t hold Schmidt responsible.
January 27th, 2006 at 5:57 pm…I try not to take this stuff personal.” Stand with Jean in alliance and make this great nation endure.
Semper Fi Do or Die!
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February 3rd, 2006 at 1:54 pmKEEP OFF HERE OOOOOOOOOOO
February 13th, 2006 at 4:16 pm[...] Get the full report [...]
March 5th, 2006 at 8:54 pmCan’t we all just get along? Sure we can….but the bitch has gotta go!!
June 23rd, 2006 at 4:14 amI love Jean Schmidt because she has a backbone. I agree with her “coward†statement 100%. We a lot of “cowards†in high places. I also stand firm behind our Pres. G.W. Bush, stay the course.
The other cowards are those that ordered her comments be “stroke†from the official record? Changing history is a cowardly act.
I guess her remarks strike a cord with the cowards, don’t want a permanent record for the people of the future to see and read.
A mockery of the system, or should I say that it is a cowardly way to alter/fabricate the record so it is not history anymore, but yourstory. That is becoming typical and is sickening.
HDS (Vietnam Vet, 23 months. Marine Corps)
July 14th, 2006 at 12:16 am[...] 10. “…A few minutes ago I received a call from Colonel Danny Bubp, Ohio Representative from the 88th district in the House of Representatives. He asked me to send Congress a message: Stay the course. He also asked me to send Congressman Murtha a message that cowards cut and run. Marines never do. Danny and the rest of America and the world want the assurance from this body – that we will see this through.†Schmidt’s infamous speech on the House Floor during her 75th day as a member of Congress. November 18, 2005. Think Progress. [...]
July 20th, 2006 at 6:40 pm[...] Personally, I would have liked a rematch between Paul and Rep. “Mean” Jean Schmidt (R-I don’t even know where to begin), but I can’t blame the guy after what has happened to him. Let’s just hope he keeps up the bashing! [...]
August 23rd, 2006 at 4:19 pm[...] Since we all like numbers, let’s start out with a study done by one of Schmidt’s GOP primary opponents, former Representative Bob McEwen. In it, it shows that only 35% of respondents wanted Schmidt to be re-elected, while 49% wanted a change. This didn’t help McEwen win the primary, but it did show that there was considerable misgiving about the way she had been representing her constituents – or her insensitive comments about Representative John Murtha (D-PA) that set off a national firestorm of criticism. Those earlier numbers were confirmed in a poll in July that showed the two candidates to be tied at 44% support. Here are a few snippets from the poll, which was conducted by Momentum Analysis: There is more to this race than simply a bad national climate for Republicans. Freshman Congresswoman Jean Schmidt’s repeated missteps during her short tenure have made her a well-known, and unpopular figure. She is net unfavorable (41% favorable, 46% unfavorable), with twice as many having a “very unfavorable†impression (30%) as a “very favorable†impression of her (15%). When we examine elected officials’ mean favorability ratings on a 4-point scale, where 4 means “very favorable†and 1 means “very unfavorable,†Schmidt’s mean score (2.30) makes her more unpopular than every figure tested, except for Governor Taft (mean: 1.84). Indeed, Schmidt is less popular than President Bush (2.48 mean score). [...]
August 24th, 2006 at 6:27 pm[...] 13. Rep. Jean Schmidt (R-OH) shamefully attacked Rep. John Murtha (D-PA) on the House floor, telling him that “cowards cut and run, Marines never do.” [Link] [...]
November 6th, 2006 at 6:06 pm[...] 13. Rep. Jean Schmidt (R-OH) shamefully attacked Rep. John Murtha (D-PA) on the House floor, telling him that “cowards cut and run, Marines never do.” [Link] [...]
November 6th, 2006 at 6:22 pm[...] 13. Rep. Jean Schmidt (R-OH) shamefully attacked Rep. John Murtha (D-PA) on the House floor, telling him that “cowards cut and run, Marines never do.†[Link] [...]
November 7th, 2006 at 12:54 pmHow can a woman who has never served in the military or been in combat say anything like that?
How can they let her just pretend like that? So she went to the military funeral of a boy she didn’t know and kissed up to some Colonel who gave her a stereotypical statement to make as he sat on his couch and watched CSPAN later, she had no right to say that.
Iraq is a corporate venture, there is little rebuilding being done save on the oilfields, the regions people and society are in shambles and were not before this escapade that we all now know to be based on lies, when will the American people decide enough is enough?
When will the “policemen of the world”, truly get back to policing and end this giant moneymaking bs session we’ve been calling 2003-2006?
I would spit on Bush and Cheney if given the chance. Spit on them.
-shirasiyu the samurai
November 23rd, 2006 at 3:30 amNONE OF THE CURRENT AMERICAN LEADERS ARE TRUE WARRIORS. THEY ARE FINE CORPORATE BULLSHITTERS AND HAM ACTORS.
REALIZE THIS, AND YOU WILL ONCE AGAIN TRULY BE AMERICAN.
November 23rd, 2006 at 3:32 am[...] click for Quicktime video Filed under: Politics — dburn @ 2:54 pm [...]
January 19th, 2007 at 9:54 am[...] He also happens to be of the opinion that Bush has screwed up royally in Iraq – and that has earned him the honor of being slandered on the House floor (Jean Schmidt: “cowards cut and run”) and having his service to his country disparaged. [...]
January 22nd, 2007 at 2:45 pmThe best part of Murtha ran down his mothers leg. What a POS.
January 31st, 2007 at 1:05 pm[...] (R-OH), who infamously called decorated Marine Corps veteran Rep. John Murtha (D-PA) a “coward“: While I believe that this building is beneath the standard of what is acceptable, I think [...]
March 20th, 2007 at 9:10 pm[...] the Ahttp://www.iht.com/articles/2006/08/31/business/apple.php” rel=”dc:source” property=”dc:titleThink Progress ? Blog Archive ? VIDEO: Schmidt??s ShameSchmidt was later forced to return to the House floor and have her remarks stricken from the record. [...]
April 5th, 2008 at 9:08 am