Cheney: If U.S. Troops Come Home, Osama Bin Laden Will Rule Iraq
Cheney: If U.S. Troops Come Home, Osama Bin Laden Will Rule Iraq
Vice President Cheney made a striking claim a few minutes ago at the American Enterprise Institute:
Those who advocate a sudden withdraw from Iraq should answer a couple simple questions. Would the United States and other free nations be better off or worse off with Zarqawi, Bin Laden and Zawahiri in control Iraq? Would we be safer or less safe with Iraq ruled by men intent upon the destruction of our country.
Cheney didn’t provide any evidence supporting his claim. The suggestion is that if the U.S. leaves, Iraqi forces would be completely incapable of defending the country against terrorists. Yesterday on ABC, Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld said people who doubted the capabilities of Iraqi security forces were “flat wrong”:
People who denigrate their competence and capability are flat wrong. They’re making a mistake. They either don’t understand the situation or they’re trying to confuse it, but the Iraqi security forces are well respected by the Iraqi people. They’re doing a very good job.
So Cheney either doesn’t understand the situation or is trying to confuse it. Take your pick.
[UPDATE: Video of Cheney at Crooks & Liars.]
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And there’re 210,000 trained Iraqis, right Veep?
They have guns and officers and ammo and stuff. Let ‘em use it.
November 21st, 2005 at 12:31 pmWill he rule it “in the form of a mushroom cloud”? Has it been “pretty well confirmed”? Better check with “Curveball”.
November 21st, 2005 at 12:31 pmMore fear tactics.
Bin Laden didn’t attack us with an army. It was a very small band of determined individuals with Bin Laden’s money who blended in with civillian society.
Typical though for a bunch of GOP elephants to be completly terrified by a relatively small number of vermin.
November 21st, 2005 at 12:33 pmI can’t stand these idiots, but it’s sad to watch my country’s government coming apart like this.
November 21st, 2005 at 12:36 pmOf course Cheney knows that is true. It’s how terrorists work. Trick stupid, war-hungry politicians into attacking an innocent sountry. The resulting war destabilizes the region so much that terrorists have to chance to gain power. That’s how the Taliban first came into power in Afganastan thanks to the US…they invented the idea in the first place after all.
So Cheney has played right into their hands. Attacked an innocent country, destabilized the entire country with war, and opened the door and invited terrorists to come in and capitalize on the chaos and anti-American sentiment.
The real lie is hidden in what is not being told. It is why they stick with the “stay the course vs immediate withdraw” speaking points. The real lie is that they have NO PLAN on how to win, what they hope to accomplish, or even what they are fighting for. Without that there is only chaos, whether or not the troops stay OR go home. SO if Cheney isn’t willing to put forward a plan, then it makes no difference if the troops come home.
November 21st, 2005 at 12:36 pmThe Dick is hoping all of that money he’s making through Halliburton will buy him a few more years above ground. I say he’ll have ‘the big one’ sometime in ‘06.
November 21st, 2005 at 12:39 pmIs this Dick’s heart trouble going undetected, or something? He seems to be having trouble with reality.
November 21st, 2005 at 12:40 pmIf we leave Iraq, IRAN will be in charge. Of course, if we had followed Wolfowitz’s plan, Chalabi would be in charge, and IRAN would be in charge.
Basically, IRAN has been sitting back and watching while we toppled their most immediate regional threat, bestowed control of the historical capital of the Muslim world to their allies, and sank hundreds of billions of dollars and our army into a morass. They’re the ones waiting to fully take over when we withdraw.
November 21st, 2005 at 12:40 pmbin laden to rule a country? say WHAT? as if ANY of those idiots would come out of hiding to…i dunno…get KILLED?
cheney has really just lost it. his comments are striking in their stupidity and lack of evidence. he just says whatever the fvck he wants, apparently
November 21st, 2005 at 12:41 pmLast throes, anyone…
November 21st, 2005 at 12:42 pmOnce again, Crashcart Cheney demonstrated that blood isn’t flowing to his brain. What’s really frightening is that there’s still a sizable number of Americans who seem to have the same blood-flow problem.
Move along, no neurons firing here.
November 21st, 2005 at 12:43 pmJust keep the country yokels at NASCAR breathing gas fumes and they’ll believe anything Cheney says.
November 21st, 2005 at 12:50 pmMy God, who would believe anything Cheney says in the first place. Cheney is the man that gaves us, “I believe the insurgency is in their last throes”, and “I think we will be greated as liberators, and “I know they have WMD”, to name a few. The VP of tortore, wants to turn us into a torture state!
Does the man say anything truthful, or does he manipulate it, flip-flop it, all the time.
November 21st, 2005 at 12:51 pmYou know what everyone? It’s the oil. If we don’t control the region then some other big gun will. That’s exactly what the PNAC group called for and that’s exactly what the administration NEVER admits. They have never told the story straight. Of course we need to keep the military there. We need to protect our ‘interests’, our ‘way of life’. Our way of life being the conveniences we get from an oil-’driven’ society.
November 21st, 2005 at 12:52 pmIf Vice President Cheney and Secretary Rumsfeld were hoping to “clarify” anything, then they need to get together to coordinate their lies.
But if their goal was to obfuscate, then they are succeeding. Otherwise, why else come out and say two apparently contradictory things? Which is it, boys? Are Iraqi forces capable of protecting the country or not?
November 21st, 2005 at 12:55 pmWell, Cheney-bot had to have its cerebral matrix re-cored after it accidently stuck a fork in an outlet simulating torture. It didn’t have the latest news updates. And to think, they finally achieved a mobile power source strong enough to allow it to leave the bunker.
November 21st, 2005 at 12:55 pmMurtha never proposed an “immediate” or “sudden” withdrawal of troops. This is Murtha’s resolution:
I don’t see anything about an “immediate” or “sudden” withdrawal in there, do you? Murtha’s essentially asking for a progress report and maintaining political liaisons and reduced Marine presence on the ground as soon as practicable.
Murtha’s resolution was never debated on the floor. It was the Republican Hunter resolution that was voted down. This is Congressman Hunter’s resolution in full:
Hunter’s resolution was brought up for debate knowing no one, not Republicans or Democrats, could support his resolution. So what we have is a bunch of Republican Congressmen and women belaboring a Republican resolution as if it was a Democrat’s resolution (Murtha), to make it appear as if Democratic Congressmen and women want to “cut and run†in Iraq. Meanwhile, Cheney and the rest of the cogs in the spin machine are working their hardest to make it appear this is not the case.
Congratulations Republicans on making a mockery of the sacrifices of the men and women who’ve served in Iraq you allegedly love so deeply for political partisan gains. It’s not a soldier’s place to publicly criticize policies. If the politicians elected to represent soldiers can’t earnestly debate the policies that put them in harm’s way, who can?
November 21st, 2005 at 12:56 pmThe Dick also wants to get you used to the idea of a permanent U.S. base/presence in middle east.
November 21st, 2005 at 12:57 pmHe sounds an awful lot like he did before the war, when he was absolutely, positively convinced that Iraq had WMDs. Is he lying? Of course; his lips are moving.
November 21st, 2005 at 12:59 pm“Dick” Cheney just doesn’t get it, does he?
November 21st, 2005 at 12:59 pm#14 I agree, dv909. It IS about the oil. That’s why the Iraqi oil field map was laid out on a table at the war’s pre-planning for the oil companies to divvy up. That’s why President Bush told the Iraqi people before the invasion began (something like), “Your fate will be determined by your own actions. Do not destroy the oil fields.” (Gee, I would have thought suggesting immediate surrender was their best option.) And this is why we made sure that the Iraq Oil Ministry was protected during the invasion but not the nuclear power plants (which were looted.)
You’re right. It’s the oil. And President Bush isn’t man enough to admit it. He’s a coward, just like a certain Fox News host.
November 21st, 2005 at 1:00 pm#18 I thought that we were building about two dozen “permanent” bases in Iraq.
November 21st, 2005 at 1:01 pmYou mean if we leave Chalabi won’t be in charge?
Actually, I thought Zarqawi was ruling Iraq already letting Osama take over would be purely symbolic. But in any event, maybe if we allow Osama to take over we could actually find him.
But seriously, Dick has uttered yet more words that will come back to haunt the Administration. This will take a place along side “Mission Accomplished,” “we want Osama dead or alive,” and “bring ‘em on.”
New on EWM: Pentagon Caught Torturing Prisoners with Medicare Prescription Drug Benefit Applications
November 21st, 2005 at 1:01 pmIf they would of kept our troops in Afghanistan and concentrated on Bin Laden, This would of saved us from going into Iraq.
November 21st, 2005 at 1:02 pmWhether he’s dead or alive or assuming he even exists, isn’t Zarqawi already in charge of Iraq in terms of the insurgent attacks? The Bush administration spin has made Zarqawi larger than life and put him charge of the insurgency, whether he really is or not. What would change if Zarqawi were dead? We’ve been creating many Zarqawi replacements, who’d fill in. And, by the way, Cheney wouldn’t even be able to ask the question if we hadn’t invaded and created the opportunity for civil war and al Qaeda in the first place.
Iraqi forces are currently incapable of providing security whether we stay or not. The civil war, which we helped create, will continue whether we stay or not. But the Bush administration can’t have it both ways: They can’t argue that things are going great and then argue that we can’t leave because things aren’t going great. But it’s like their current pro-war argument too: The pre-war intelligence was wrong, but we were right because the intelligence justified war.
November 21st, 2005 at 1:03 pmAnd if we stay the Gran Ayatollah of Iran rules Iraq.
Great choice you gave us there Dickie boy.
Hmmm… ya know… if we pull out of Iraq and bin Ladan and Zawahiri arrive in Baghdad to rule the nation then at least we’ll finally know where they are so that we can bomb the shit out of them.
Hmmm…
Hey Dickie boy! Why not pull out and finally find bin Laden?
November 21st, 2005 at 1:04 pm#14 is right. The military is busy building bases as we Americans continue to die. Why? So we’ll always be in Iraq and controlling the flow of oil to America companies supporting bushco. (As well as keep an eye on Iran). There was a piece on NPR last week about an American military busy laying miles and miles of communication cables between various bases. Would bush be investing billions in bases if we planned to walk away? Be prepared for the “We’ve invested so much we can’t leave now!” routine when it’s time for withdrawal.
November 21st, 2005 at 1:06 pmWould it be possible to send Chimpy and Crashcart back to their ranches until 2008?
November 21st, 2005 at 1:20 pm“If U.S. Troops Come Home, Osama Bin Laden Will Rule Iraq”
November 21st, 2005 at 1:22 pm…which would be awful, because then WE WOULD KNOW WHERE TO FIND HIM.
The love of money , the greed for power and permanent wealth makes those damn republicans absolute idiots . If only they could relize it does not buy them eternity and ashes and sand await , then they can face reality .
November 21st, 2005 at 1:22 pmPossibly they know trhe outcome of the Iraq war : Iran would be the winner and then we prolong the war by attacking them as well. The bastards permanent war.
In the meantime China is making progress economicaly and militairly while we become less relevant .
This war has never been about terrorist…it’s always been the wet dream of the neo-cons to take control of a middle east country by force. Remember how we were told that this would start a mass movement in the middle east to democracy? Remember these guys beleive might makes right. Remember how their arrogance led them to discount the U.N. and “Old Europe?” Guess what? We’ve been handed our lunch in Iraq and the U.N. and “Old Europe” continue on. These clowns have been wrong on every count. what they fear now is the fact that the “intelligence community” they are blaming will step up and show how bushco cherry picked the data. So, it’s time to blame everyone who went along with the “bad data.” Time is not on bushco’s side.
November 21st, 2005 at 1:24 pmWAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
EIGHT MORE YEARS!
November 21st, 2005 at 1:25 pmWhen is Cheney old ticker going to give out?
November 21st, 2005 at 1:26 pm#38
He didn’t mention that the flowers would be the exploding kind.
November 21st, 2005 at 1:30 pmCorrection, #28
November 21st, 2005 at 1:31 pmIf OBL does take over in Iraq it’s because Chimpy and the conservatards were kind enough to take out the one Islamic government in the region that was more secular than any other. Thanks alot, you fvcking idiots. Left to their own devices, conservatards will kill us all.
November 21st, 2005 at 1:38 pmA true journalist would just laugh in Cheney’s face.
November 21st, 2005 at 1:39 pmGee Mr. Chainy, Indeed, Let us First Ask “Yourselves” the WHIGS Few Simple Questions.
Wheres Osama?
Did the Evidence support the War?
WHOM IS Responsible for Starting the Iraq War?
WHO has that Final VOTE?
Please dont say ‘WE’ Mr. Cheney. Your Words, and your Meetings,and your secrets dont include ‘WE’.
Tell ‘US’ the ‘people’ what the WHIGs call a ‘Noble Cause’ Mr Cheney. Tell ‘US’ the people.
Because of the Neo-Con Zest for War MR. ‘PNAC’ Cheney, NO, Unfortunately ‘WE’ cant just Pull out of IRAQ.
First YOU SHOULD be given a GUN, and Put on the Frontline with the TROOPers the ‘Neo-Cons’.
When ‘Bushco’ and its ILK, step aside, We can start working on the Solution of the Iraqi Problem.
Until Then its a Stalemate.
In My opinion –AJ
November 21st, 2005 at 1:42 pmWith these guys falling all over themselves to try to maintain a semblance of power, the next three years is likely to be torture, just watching it in sheer embarrassment.
November 21st, 2005 at 1:46 pmMore fear and smear from darth himself. God, this man is full of hate.
November 21st, 2005 at 1:47 pmAre we to then assume we know where Mr. Bid Laden is? Remember the missed opportunity alluded to by John Kerry during the election.
November 21st, 2005 at 1:49 pmIt’s almost impossible to imagine what the next three years will hold for America. This prez has no capital left outside of the WH…. No other country will feel compelled to “have to deal” bush. Slowly but surely Americans are waking up the the fact that this failed administration is not working to make America stronger or better, but only to funnel more money to the rich. It will be interesting to see what they can come up with to rationalize continued failures.
November 21st, 2005 at 1:52 pmThis would be laughable if it weren’t so serious… It definitely is pathetic… This guys have NO credibility whatsoever, and who’s afraid of the big bad wolf anyway??
November 21st, 2005 at 1:57 pmSomeone tell me, what county does Ben laden rule now??
We all know this is a fear tactic.
Also a ringing enorsement for their man Chalabi isn’t it!! We leave, he falls. (sarcasm)
November 21st, 2005 at 1:59 pm…anti-war vets have no backbone?..please step outside and say that their faces!
November 21st, 2005 at 2:01 pmI don’t think it’s unreasonable to say that while the Iraqi troops are indeed improving their ability to wage effective war on terrorism on their homefront, they still need our troops to avoid falling to the likes of Al Qaeda.
We pull our troops out, they fall on their face … they fall on their face, Al Qaeda is the dominant power in Iraq … Al Qaeda is the dominant force in Iraq … Osama BL, being the leader of said group, has “control” (in some sort of fashion) of Iraq.
This doesn’t seem too far fetched (even if you hate GWB and Cheney) …
November 21st, 2005 at 2:06 pmIf Dick Cheney told me yesterday was Sunday I’d got check it for myself.
November 21st, 2005 at 2:06 pmbad ticker? Walmart wouldn’t even hire the egghead as a greeter unless he were covered by medicare.
I thought Osama was the number one guy to be apprehended by the US.
they gerfot, those darn Republicans. Must be too busy counting their worthless money.
November 21st, 2005 at 2:09 pmThe sad thing is that Cheney’s BS goes over so well in repug land. A quick visit to a couple of their moron sites and you get a pretty good sense of the “winners don’t quit” flags that those keyboard warriors so bravely wave. Those idiots really are too stupid to realize that they have been duped.
November 21st, 2005 at 2:11 pm#3 - “Bin Laden didn’t attack us with an army. It was a very small band of determined individuals with Bin Laden’s money who blended in with civillian society. - Comment by dvd”
November 21st, 2005 at 2:11 pm*****(Applause…applause….Where does Think Pessimism dig up such brilliant observers??? The fact that this bunch of Islamofascists DOES’NT have an army is what makes them so dangerous. (I deduced that from more than 20+ years of attacks against the US and West.)****NEWFLASH for all you ACLU types - I’ll bet you were upset when two “detainees” released from Guantanamo Bay were arrested in Casablanca.
@ 50 Would you even consider the possebility that Osama and Bush are big friends. Grandpa Bush was a great friend for Hitler, he even financed him, would you back up such family? Shame on you when you do! There are 15 families which own 95% of the worlds money and the Bush and Bin Laden Family belong to them, would they fight eachother? Even the royal UK family is in that line with 65% of property of all VS ground. You didn’t know that, did you? Well now you do. Start thinking, like the site tells you, think progress!
November 21st, 2005 at 2:15 pmWaahhhhh - somebody just called me an ACLU type. Grow up.
November 21st, 2005 at 2:16 pmRon
You better cite some of those “facts” … I’d like to read for myself.
November 21st, 2005 at 2:17 pmWhere can one get a scorecard…I personally cannot keep up with the lies and flip-flops coming out of Bush&Co
November 21st, 2005 at 2:18 pmThis looks like a good time for a Bin Laden video. We shouldn’t have to wait for the next election to see one…linus
November 21st, 2005 at 2:19 pm#48–Yeah, Cheney said “lost his memory and his backbone.” Well, Murtha remembered well enough who took 5 deferments from Vietnam! Cheney has some set on him to impugn Murtha’s backbone. What a bastard!
November 21st, 2005 at 2:20 pm@ 54 Can you understand that there always was a enemy. First the judes , then the Sovjets, now the Muslims, who’s next? Maybe us?
November 21st, 2005 at 2:20 pm@ 57, its all on cloakanddagger.de and rense.com
The facts don’t lie!
http://www.cloakanddagger.de
November 21st, 2005 at 2:23 pmhttp://www.rense.com
@ 57, its all on
The facts don’t lie!
http://www.cloakanddagger.de
November 21st, 2005 at 2:23 pmhttp://www.rense.com
Giacomo: Maybe BL has control of Iraq NOW - thanks to the US invasion. Thousands of Iraqi have been killed - those we went supposedly to liberate, remember?? I have my qualms about leaving Iraq - cause they’re in total and complete chaos - chaos caused by US (literally!!). We should amend and fix Iraq before leaving, but the longer we stay there, the worse it will become… It’s getting worse every single day. Today is worse than yesterday, and tomorrow will be worse than today. And ANYONE can see that!!
November 21st, 2005 at 2:24 pm#53
Don’t waste your time with left. They are only after getting their power back no matter what the cost. If that means risking another terrorist attack on U.S. soil, so be it. They aid and abet the enemy with every snipe at the president and the party in charge. They don’t seem to understand that we are in fact, at war. A war that we did not start but we will finish on our own terms, not the terms of Al Qaeda. Almost, every democrat is on record now supporting our continued efforts in Iraq. Even Murtha himself voted for it. The Left would like Iraq to become another Vietnam, but we are not going to let that happen. Gitmo, Abu Gharib and other sites are designed to hold these thugs who would kill us if given the chance. It is sad that we can’t stand as one nation united against this threat but every time I turn around they are posting new pictures of “torture” here or there. What about the 3000 deaths on 9/11? What about those who were beheaded in Iraq and other places. Those were not acts of torture by the left. It makes me wonder whose side they really are on sometimes.
November 21st, 2005 at 2:27 pmRon
“There are 15 families which own 95% of the worlds money and the Bush and Bin Laden Family belong to them”
Let’s look at just 95% of the money in the US … total money in the US (values M1 through M3) 6 trillion dollars … multiply by .95 = 5.7 trillion … divide by 15 (for each families share)= 380 Billion.
That’s just US funds … if we added the world (we can triple our amount … not sure how accurate that is … I’m probably estimating way too short) then we’d likely come to each “family” “owning” around 1.1 TRILLION.
Does this make any sense Ron, or am I taking your words out of context?
November 21st, 2005 at 2:27 pmYeah that’s it, Osama bin Laden is going to stop being a terrorist and will become a conservative politician. He now sees that you can destroy more people’s lives that way.
November 21st, 2005 at 2:29 pmPEOPLE,PEOPLE,PEOPLE.
November 21st, 2005 at 2:31 pmLET ME PUT MY TWO CENTS WORTH IN,
CHENEY LIKE HIS CORPORATION ARE NOT WORRIED ABOUT OBL OR ANY OF THAT.
YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT HE IS REALLY WORRIED ABOUT??????
THE OIL , PEOPLE. IF WE PULL OUT, THAT WOULD LEAVE THE OIL WIDE OPEN! CHENEY HAS NOTHING MORE THAN OIL AND ECONOMY TO WORRY ABOUT!
USE YOUR BRAINS PEOPLE!
The bushies are pushing the panic button , for they know the polls are 73 % in favor for the beginning of an immediate pull out.
November 21st, 2005 at 2:32 pmmy apologies - i neglected to paste the link in my comment above (70) to the pdf file in the PNAC website.
http://www.newamericancentury.org/ RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf
November 21st, 2005 at 2:32 pm“So Cheney either doesn’t understand the situation or is trying to confuse it. Take your pick.”
I pick that you understand perfectly well what he was really talking about but are loath to tell the truth.
Why don’t you dipshits just come out and admit you don’t really care what happens in Iraq when we pull out and that all that talk about “innocent” life being lost during our invasion was just talk. Just admit it, a few hundred thousand brave, fighting and voting Iraqis just don’t quite mean as much to you as a defeat for George Bush and the USA.
I can’t wait until the hanging starts. Pass the popcorn.
November 21st, 2005 at 2:32 pmRyan
I’m sure Al Qaeda’s numbers have grown b/c of Iraq … no doubt about it. I do think they hijacked that “cause” (the people of Iraq certainly don’t want them there) and will use any type of cause to aid in their recruiting. Remember, on 9/11 we hadn’t invaded or waged any sort of battle in any Muslim country … they had hit us multiple times (Cole, Embassys) and we turned the other cheek (mostly). My point is, they hate us, Iraq or no Iraq.
November 21st, 2005 at 2:34 pm@ Giacomo,
Have you read the requested sites? I cannot explain all I read over the last year. When you read the sites you’ll believe what I stated. That’s the whole game, its not about countries, its not about religions, its about money and absolute power over whatever administration. Kerry and Bush are both a member of Skull and Bones. When Kerry was elected, Skull and Bones would still be in power. The net is full of it but you have to discover it yourself.
November 21st, 2005 at 2:34 pm#53 said: “The fact that this bunch of Islamofascists DOES’NT have an army is what makes them so dangerous…”
So I ask you mr. mighty aphrodite, how has OUR army prevented terrorists attacks? Other than destroying a town in Iraq killing hundreds of people to get about 50 ‘evildoers’, how has this prevented terrorism across the world?
It is so typical for bullies to hide behind their brute strength rather than using their brains. You cannot win a covert war with armies, tanks, jets, and missles.
November 21st, 2005 at 2:35 pmoh IRI you are as confused as ever! The point of the post was that Cheney said one thing last week and something different this week! He also seems to disagree quite significantly with Rummy on the strength of the Iraqi Army!
Sheesh. Try to keep up.
November 21st, 2005 at 2:35 pmNothing could do more to encourage terrorists in Iraq that our Vice President telling the world that Bin Laden and Zarqawi will be ruling Iraq once we’re gone. Hell, man, you’ve given them motivation!
November 21st, 2005 at 2:39 pmBreaking News:
The U.S. troops in Iraq have recently found a large pile of feces with wrapped in a turban near an AK-47 leaning against a cave wall.
The Pentagon has confirmed that the pile of feces is indeed the # 2 of Al Qaeda in Iraq.
DEVELOPING.
November 21st, 2005 at 2:39 pmRon
I checked out those two websites (www.cloakanddagger.de
November 21st, 2005 at 2:41 pmand http://www.rense.com). One of them has a story about Hitler being a British “agent” and the other one had a story about UFOs in Puerto Rico. Admittedly, I cherry picked those two stories, but I wouldn’t want to be getting my “facts” from any site that embraced either of those stories.
Why don’t you dipshits just come out and admit you don’t really care what happens in Iraq when we pull out and that all that talk about “innocent†life being lost during our invasion was just talk. Just admit it, a few hundred thousand brave, fighting and voting Iraqis just don’t quite mean as much to you as a defeat for George Bush and the USA.
Okay I’ll admit it. The lives of our troops mean nothing to the neocons. The only thing that matters is defeat for their political opponents. Why else would they wait six months to invade Fallujah until after the election? Because their only calculus is political.
It is Bush and his supporters who constantly downplay the deaths of our troops. I’ve even heard some say that 2,000 killed isn’t that much. And that the media shouldn’t spend so much time reporting on the “bad news.”
November 21st, 2005 at 2:42 pm63 & 64 Thanks Ron for telling me where to get a scorecard to keep up with the lies and flip-flops from the Bushie’s…unfortunately looks like I’m going to have to get new computer with a massive amount of memory just to download it all )))
November 21st, 2005 at 2:42 pmI-R-I, Popcorn’s popping!!!
November 21st, 2005 at 2:42 pm#79 good point. They want to make sure that if they can’t hold on to power here, they want America to fail everywhere.
Obviously, right IRI?
November 21st, 2005 at 2:44 pmGREED
November 21st, 2005 at 2:45 pm54# whats the UK royal family got to do with it?leave em alone.
November 21st, 2005 at 2:45 pmGREED,CORRUPTION,LIES= HATE!
November 21st, 2005 at 2:48 pmCHENY FEARS LOSING THE OIL FIELDS OF WEALTH!
Ron
I read some more on rense.com. They have a story on their about WWII and the Nazi concentration camps. Here’s a quote …
“International Red Cross found no evidence whatever at the camps in Axis occupied Europe of a deliberate policy to exterminate the Jews”
… I assure you, reading the entire story is much worse than my quote. That site seems to be pure trash Ron.
November 21st, 2005 at 2:49 pmLet Bin Laden be president of Iraq. At least then we’ll know where the hell he is.
November 21st, 2005 at 2:49 pmA Real Father - You’re begining to channel Yoda (Fear leads to anger …)
November 21st, 2005 at 2:52 pmHas anyone read the articles regarding Iraq in the current issue of The Atlantic? One of them posits what are the possible consequences of pulling out of Iraq and the other is about the true troop strength of the Iraqi army.
November 21st, 2005 at 2:52 pmI don’t think Cheney cares about Bin Laden ruling Iraq after a US pullout.
After all, they gave up on caring about where Bin Laden was a long time ago. (”I don’t think about him much anymore,” said W.)
What they are concerned about is the justified political recriminations that will result in their monstrously failed policy in Iraq.
Iraq failure -> shift in national Party in power -> congressional investigations -> shit hitting fans: lies exposed, criminal behavior unmasked, indictments, trial and convictions, etc.
They don’t give a shit about anything but themselves. They’re sacrificing American lives every day in Iraq to save their sorry asses from being exposed.
November 21st, 2005 at 2:54 pmI checked out those two websites (www.cloakanddagger.de
and http://www.rense.com). One of them has a story about Hitler being a British “agent†and the other one had a story about UFOs in Puerto Rico.
Comment by Giacomo (aka GeoMetro)
Jeff Rense is a gay Art Bell. I’m pretty sure Jeff and Justin “Rainman” Raimondo are an item. Check with Ryan “I’m not a homo, really!!” Neat. Rense and Anti-War.com is where he gets all his knowledge and expertise and he should have some juicy details.
November 21st, 2005 at 2:55 pmSee Dick.
See Dick talk.
See Dick drive the loony left crazy.
Pass the popcorn Mighty A and IRI!
November 21st, 2005 at 2:56 pmIf the “flypaper strategy” of attracting terrorists to someone else’s country for us to destroy them were either effective or morally acceptable, wouldn’t attracting bin Laden or al Zawahiri to Iraq be its highest form? The fact that Cheney doesn’t want this to happen shows that - unless he’s actively trying to prevent the capture of bin Laden et al - he doesn’t really believe in the flypaper strategy after all. There goes one more made-up after-the-fact rationalization for the war in Iraq.
November 21st, 2005 at 2:57 pmGREED,CORRUPTION,LIES=HATE,HATE,HATE!
November 21st, 2005 at 2:58 pmFREEDOM IS NOT FREE.FREEDOM BUBBLE WILL BURST!
Ron
You never answered my post #68 … how can “15 families … own 95% of the worlds money”.
November 21st, 2005 at 2:59 pm#79 good point. They want to make sure that if they can’t hold on to power here, they want America to fail everywhere.
Obviously, right IRI?
Comment by cyncial ex-hippie
Well, let’s face it, democracy hasn’t worked out all the well for the Donks as of late so why should they get all excited about exporting democracy to heathen third world shit-holes?
Now, if they could export some of their Liberal law creating judges and a few Hollywood Leftist Stars then they’d be all hot and bothered about the prospects for creating a “Progressive Mideast”. I’m pretty sure they know that would suit their agenda better than the aiding and abetting of terrorists that they are doing now.
November 21st, 2005 at 3:00 pmand yes,cheney is greedy!
November 21st, 2005 at 3:01 pmThey still think that because they think and say something it will be true. Selling the war gave them a false sense of worth.
November 21st, 2005 at 3:01 pmI don’t think a picture of Cheney without a scowl even exists…
November 21st, 2005 at 3:01 pm#67 Do you really think that the world as it is today under Bush and his cohorts is exactly how you envision it should be? Do you enjoy the fact that every civilized, and many not-so-civilied, country in the world despises us? Do you think that it’s a good thing that China now has more troops, more money (including holding most of the US debt) and therefore more leverage to make demands of the US without having to cave on human rights? Do you really think that it’s in the best interests of our country that we stoop to barbarism? Do you care at all about human rights, or do you go along with the Republican torture line? And do you really believe, deep down, that ANY Americans, liberal or whatever, WANT another Vietnam, with 58,000 troops killed? Try using your brain and some common sense once in a while.
November 21st, 2005 at 3:02 pmSee Dick.
See Dick talk.
See Dick drive the loony left crazy.
Pass the popcorn Mighty A and IRI!
Comment by cynicon implant
I get no pleasure out of this. Really. It’s a lot like beating up retards. (Or it seems like it would be though I’ve never actually beat up a retard.)
Ok. I lied about that.
November 21st, 2005 at 3:04 pmGREED,CORRUPTION,LIES=HATE,HATE,HATE!
FREEDOM IS NOT FREE.FREEDOM BUBBLE WILL BURST!
and yes,cheney is greedy!
November 21st, 2005 at 3:05 pmCHENY FEARS LOSING THE OIL FIELDS OF WEALTH!
Do you think they let OBL get away at
November 21st, 2005 at 3:05 pmTora Bora so they would have this excuse?
OBL does make a convenient “evildoer”
to have around for easy exploitation.
#67 Do you really think that the world as it is today under Bush and his cohorts is exactly how you envision it should be? Do you enjoy the fact that every civilized, and many not-so-civilied, country in the world despises us? Do you think that it’s a good thing that China now has more troops, more money (including holding most of the US debt) and therefore more leverage to make demands of the US without having to cave on human rights? Do you really think that it’s in the best interests of our country that we stoop to barbarism? Do you care at all about human rights, or do you go along with the Republican torture line? And do you really believe, deep down, that ANY Americans, liberal or whatever, WANT another Vietnam, with 58,000 troops killed? Try using your brain and some common sense once in a while.
Comment by Jane E. Schneider
High Jane. How’s Utopia working out for you?
November 21st, 2005 at 3:06 pm“It’s a lot like beating up retards. (Or it seems like it would be though I’ve never actually beat up a retard.)
Ok. I lied about that. ”
Typical republican. Real brave when it comes to one on one with the mentally challenged. Takes one to beat one up I guess.
November 21st, 2005 at 3:07 pm“It’s a lot like beating up retards.”
-I-Right-I
November 21st, 2005 at 3:08 pmDo you think they let OBL get away at
Tora Bora so they would have this excuse?
OBL does make a convenient “evildoerâ€
to have around for easy exploitation.
Comment by afterthought
Ossama is dead and there is no lack of evil-do’ers. Besides, all your ass are belong to us and we don’t need no stinking badges, or excuses.
November 21st, 2005 at 3:08 pm“It’s alot like having intercourse with a corpse”
-I-Right-I
November 21st, 2005 at 3:09 pm#110.?
November 21st, 2005 at 3:10 pmCheney: If U.S. Troops Come Home, Osama Bin Laden Will Rule Iraq .
Did you forget to tell Cheney that OBL was Dead?
#110.????
November 21st, 2005 at 3:10 pmCheney: If U.S. Troops Come Home, Osama Bin Laden Will Rule Iraq .
Did you forget to tell Cheney that OBL was Dead?
Cheney was speaking metaphorically? OBL?
November 21st, 2005 at 3:11 pmIf Osama is dead, why does Dick “5 deferments” Cheney
November 21st, 2005 at 3:11 pmkeep bringing him up?
GREED,CORRUPTION,LIES=HATE,HATE,HATE!
FREEDOM IS NOT FREE.FREEDOM BUBBLE WILL BURST!
and yes,cheney is greedy!
November 21st, 2005 at 3:11 pmCHENY FEARS LOSING THE OIL FIELDS OF WEALTH!
Commander Codpiece (HT BillMon) uses OBL
November 21st, 2005 at 3:14 pmwhenever useful too.
Boy, that stopped them dead in thier tracks, I wonder what they will throw next, an off topic?
November 21st, 2005 at 3:15 pmOssama is dead and there is no lack of evil-do’ers. Besides, all your ass are belong to us and we don’t need no stinking badges, or excuses.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — November 21, 2005 @ 3:08 pm
November 21st, 2005 at 3:17 pm????????????????????????????????????????????????
Did YOU forget to tell your good buddy Dick Cheney that OBL WAS DEAD????
I-Right-I is the kind of neo-Nazi fascist skinhead who beats up mentally handicapped people.
At least he admits it.
November 21st, 2005 at 3:22 pmPlease forgive, off point here. Is Bush, Cheney or Mr (R) going to serve turkey to the troops this year?..Any bet’s, comments. Or maybe the crow faced Rummy will be nominated, oh wait, it will be dreadful Rove and his fatter than him friend…Blessings
November 21st, 2005 at 3:24 pmOk. I lied about that. â€
Typical republican. Real brave when it comes to one on one with the mentally challenged. Takes one to beat one up I guess.
Comment by Bob Loblaw
Telling half truths is still a lie Bob. I mean’t item 1. I lied about not getting pleasure out of handing losers like you your ass in a basket. And yes, I knew some dumbass would post exactly what you posted.
November 21st, 2005 at 3:25 pmMaybe they can serve crow at the WH instead?
November 21st, 2005 at 3:25 pm#122,
November 21st, 2005 at 3:27 pmThen why did you post something stupid?
Ossama is dead and there is no lack of evil-do’ers. Besides, all your ass are belong to us and we don’t need no stinking badges, or excuses.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — November 21, 2005 @ 3:08 pm
November 21st, 2005 at 3:27 pm????????????????????????????????????????????????
Did YOU forget to tell your good buddy Dick Cheney that OBL WAS DEAD????
IRI — Keep it going, you got me howling here!
November 21st, 2005 at 3:30 pmCheney: If U.S. Troops Come Home, Osama Bin Laden
Cheney trying to confuse the matter? That’s never happened before, has it?
November 21st, 2005 at 3:31 pmOsama who? Been so long since the Bushies said anything about him I forgot he was still free and apparently not a focus of any anti-terrorism efforts. Bin who?
November 21st, 2005 at 3:32 pm“I…pleasure…your ass.”
-I-Right-I
November 21st, 2005 at 3:32 pm” Keep it going, you got me howling here”
-cynicon implant
November 21st, 2005 at 3:33 pmIRI, would you like to answer any of the questions I posed?
#122, IRI ALWAYS posts something stupid, because he never actually has any thoughts or positions of his own to expound. Just talking points and hate.
November 21st, 2005 at 3:33 pmI hate hate.
November 21st, 2005 at 3:35 pmLeave the trolls alone; the attention only encourages them.
November 21st, 2005 at 3:35 pmLAChuck,
Isn’t it about time for a “Where is Osama” media campaign?
November 21st, 2005 at 3:35 pmThink of it this way, all of this trolling could mean republicans are in their last throes.
Hey trolls, what about Abramoff? What do you guys think should happen to all of these lovely gentlemen?
November 21st, 2005 at 3:39 pmIt is all about probabilities. If the US pulls out the probability is higher that Iraq will fall to Al Qeada. If the US stays the probability is better that a liberal democracy will flourish.
November 21st, 2005 at 3:42 pmCynicon, why don’t you and IRI just get together and keep each other amused, instead of bothering the rest of us? You’re not contributing anything here.
November 21st, 2005 at 3:42 pmP&P, the crooks (like Abramoff) should go to jail. The non-crooks (like Cheney) should keep doing what they are doing and not listen to the lies that spewed about them daily.
November 21st, 2005 at 3:43 pmOh Matt…
Where’s the data, blah blah blah…
November 21st, 2005 at 3:44 pmSorry, Jane. I thought this was a comedy site. It is pretty hilarious sometimes
November 21st, 2005 at 3:45 pmIRI “I mean’t item 1. I lied about not getting pleasure out of handing losers like you your ass in a basket. And yes, I knew some dumbass would post exactly what you posted.”
Oh boy you really got me IRI. Boy now I see the light. Bush - good. Torture - good. Lie - Good. You sure showed me.
IRI “Telling half truths is still a lie Bob. ” That’s the point idiot. You finally get it. You might also realize that asking questions like “Would the United States and other free nations be better off or worse off with Zarqawi, Bin Laden and Zawahiri in control Iraq?” is a worthless way to argue a point but then, that’s the repuclican way.
November 21st, 2005 at 3:46 pmGot Bin Laden?
November 21st, 2005 at 3:47 pm“I hate hate.
Comment by cynicon implant”
Self hate underlies the pathology of all reichwingers.
November 21st, 2005 at 3:53 pmRyan, don’t hate me because I’m beautiful.
November 21st, 2005 at 3:55 pmSee Think Progress.
November 21st, 2005 at 3:57 pmSee Thing Progress posts.
See Thing Progress posts drive I-Right-I crazy.
See ElectricBassPlayer wish he had a new keyboard.
;-)
November 21st, 2005 at 3:58 pmThe country is simply drifting. No one is at the rudder. If this country had a history of coups, this would be the time.
November 21st, 2005 at 3:58 pmThis administration is intent on manipulating unadroit minds. Cheney demonstrated the method: SHIFT Since Cheney can hardly create new facts without being bashed, he muddles the facts and mixes up the rationales.
In this little speech Cheney first explains that after the first Gulf War, the U.N. required Iraq to provide evidence that it was giving up any WMD programs and that THE BURDEN OF PROOF was on Iraq. Thats fine and dandy. But later in the speech, Cheney says for purposes of going to WAR, the burden of proof was on Iraq to rebutt Bush Jr.’s claim that Iraq has WMD. Cheney has commited an egregious manipulation. The burden of proof for Bush’s assertion certainly was not on IRAQ. This may be Cheney’s worldview, but the rest of America operates where the BUREDEN OF PROOF rests on the ACCUSOR.
I can see why this administration is hated. They manipulate plain English. And the only ones fooled by it are the ones who cant undertand or don’t want to realize the damage this administration is doing.
Has government always been deceitful and it’s just increasingly obvious. Was there ever any honor?
November 21st, 2005 at 4:00 pmCynicon, you want comedy, watch The Daily Show.
November 21st, 2005 at 4:04 pm#143 Ryan, can you even begin to imagine the level of self-hatred for gay GOP’ers like Mehlman, Drudge, and Dreier? It’s frightening to even contemplate it.
November 21st, 2005 at 4:05 pmJane, what’s the “E” stand for?
November 21st, 2005 at 4:13 pmJane,
Why do we care what other nations think? The U.N. is a total joke anyway, largely controlled by dictatorships and will no real authority. We are the world’s only superpower but try to use any of that influence on the rest of the world and the left goes crazy. The real reason why the left does not want us to succeed in Iraq is that it will mean a victory for the Bush foreign policy and a loss for all those opposed to the war. Do you want to know who is in a quagmire? Its Al Qaeda. They are the ones who are stuck in Iraq, banking on the American Left and media to force us to leave. Well, we haven’t cut and run yet and we sure as hell are not going to do it now. As the Iraqi army and security forces increase in strength, it is only a matter of time until Al Qaeda is forced from Iraq. I pity the country that takes them in. As for torture, I do not support torture in the terms of the Geneva convention. But these guys do not abide by the Geneva convention do they? In addition, forcing a detainee to wear pantyhose etc. is not what I would consider torture. What they do to us is far more brutal. What Saddam did to his own people was far more brutal. There is a huge difference between Iraq and Vietnam. There have been two significant elections and a third one coming. We have made an amazing amount of progress that the left-wing controlled media doesn’t want you to know about. Iraq is no Vietnam. I do use my brain, unlike you, which is why I visit sites such as this one to broaden my knowledge. (Although, the only thing I learn here is that the left is nothing but a bunch of cowards who hate Bush) Try thinking for yourself sometime. Its really refreshing.
November 21st, 2005 at 4:14 pmCheney,
November 21st, 2005 at 4:24 pmIf you’re worried about Bin Laden ruling Iraq, why did you and Rumsfeld never take him out of the equation? That is part of the incompetance, the administration let itself get distracted by Iraq rather than complete the job in Afganistan. You guys are doing one helova job.
“Ryan, don’t hate me because I’m beautiful.
Comment by cynicon implant”
Bahaha, delusion is the funniest part of republican values…
November 21st, 2005 at 4:34 pm#152, by “influence”, do you mean agression? Most sane people would disagree with using agression against the rest of the world just to enforce our so-called American ideals, the same way that most sane people would disagree with, say, China using agression against us to make us into their image.
Can you also define “winning” in Iraq? If our goal was to “find WMDs”, well, that’s not happening. If our goal/excuse #2 was to set up a democracy even somewhat reflective of the U.S. version, it would a welcome miracle, but that’s pretty unlikely. The “significant elections” have set up an Islamic theocracy where women have fewer rights than they did under Saddam, so I don’t think that was our goal going into Iraq. If our goal was to “win the war on terror”, that’s not going to happen by defeating insurgents in only one country, so that’s not a likely scenario in Iraq. (Also, can someone else check to see if Iraq signed the Geneva Conventions? I truly have no idea.) However, what’s the point of being a supposed moral leader in the world if our word and signed treaties mean nothing?
Cynicon, what on earth do you care what my middle initial stands for?
November 21st, 2005 at 4:34 pmI always think it’s funny how reichwinger seem so worried about Bin Laden, yet they never seem to prioritize his capture. We have a +/- 130,000 american troops in Iraq, and none of them are looking for Bin Laden.
It would seem that if one were actually worried about Bin Laden (the guy we say attacked us), we’d actually make him our top priority. And yet, that’s not the case.
So once again, republicans can’t keep their eye on the ball, because their hand is in the till! Oil is what we’re after in Iraq, and that’s why republicans will stay. It has NOTHING to do with AlQueda, and the little conservatards who think it is are just simpletons.
November 21st, 2005 at 4:38 pmRyan … your point would make sense if we had no one looking for Bin Laden. Not all of our troops are in Iraq and we still are actively looking for him … your point is rather silly.
And you say “the guy we say attacked us” … what are you inferring?
November 21st, 2005 at 4:48 pmAnd since Iraqi oil production is now higher than pre-war levels, and since the war is over said oil … why am I paying $2.50 a gallon still?
I still can’t see how you can substantiate that the war’s over oil (other than the fact that Repubs tend to be into big business and making profits). I wish you would cite that so I could read it.
November 21st, 2005 at 4:52 pmGiacomo,
Who told you that.
In 2000, Iraq was producing 2.5 million barrels a day. They’re lucky if they can maintain 2.1 million barrels now.
Is that the ‘new math’ that lets you believe this is happening, or did you just pull that number from your ass?
November 21st, 2005 at 5:01 pm#138 So who decides who is a crook, cynicon?
November 21st, 2005 at 5:02 pm# 157.
November 21st, 2005 at 5:02 pmheres your sign.
http://changingminds.org/
“your point would make sense if we had no one looking for Bin Laden. Not all of our troops are in Iraq and we still are actively looking for him … your point is rather silly.” GeoMetro,
Actually what’s ’silly’ is your retarded response. If we’re worried about a ‘Bin Laden’ Iraq, then that implies he’s our greatest threat. If that were true, then the MAJORITY of troops should be looking for him - which is not the case.
“And you say “the guy we say attacked us†… what are you inferring? ”
This administration certainly doesn’t act like they’re dealing with the man who attacked us. He hardly seems a priority at all. The only time Bin Laden’s name appears to be mentioned is election time, or when they’re trying to scare up funding in iraq.
Republicans are acting entirely politically and entirely irresponsibly!
You guys can’t pull your heads out of your ass long enough to finish any mission long enough before you’re on to the next losing venture. Republicans are already rattling their swords at Syria and Iran, and Iraq and Afghanistan are both messes! It’s like watching Enron running warfare!
November 21st, 2005 at 5:05 pmhttp://changingminds.org/ explanations/ sift/ infer.htm#stuff
November 21st, 2005 at 5:07 pmStaying the course is about securing the oil supply, they don’t give a rat’s ass about your security, or my security.
November 21st, 2005 at 5:13 pmIraq has historically produced anywhere from 0.3 to 3.7 million barrels per day. They peaked at 2.5 in 2000 but averaged much less than that from 1996 to 2003. You are right with your 2.1 million figure …
Do you really expect the administration to advertise what they’re doing to catch UBL … who has a TV of his very own. Do you think they’ve slowed on their pursuit of a guy whom, if they caught, they could parade through every media venue and earn an instant 10 point swing in approval ratings (maybe more, maybe less). This has to make sense to you.
November 21st, 2005 at 5:14 pm#163 -
November 21st, 2005 at 5:16 pmWhoever put up that flow diagram needs some basic training in logic flow.
AKA, stick with it. I know its hard but eventually reality will hit them, and when it does, look for suicide rates jumping over the roof.
November 21st, 2005 at 5:16 pmhttp://changingminds.org/ explanations/ sift/ infer.htm#stuff
Bin Laden isn’t from Iraq, isn’t there now. OIL IS.
November 21st, 2005 at 5:17 pmI,ve been through Basic Training 30 years ago.
November 21st, 2005 at 5:18 pmHow about You?
WusstheBoy.
November 21st, 2005 at 5:19 pm46
November 21st, 2005 at 5:19 pmMilitary Basic Training?
November 21st, 2005 at 5:20 pmYou bet!
November 21st, 2005 at 5:21 pm“They peaked at 2.5 in 2000 but averaged much less than that from 1996 to 2003. ” GeoNoGo
And yet that’s right before the war, and it completely contradicts your ridiculous claims.
“Do you really expect the administration to advertise what they’re doing to catch UBL …” GeoBlowsBush
No I expect them to get off of their incompetent asses and get the job done! It’s been 4 years, there’s no excuse that could merit this level of failure!
Wake up your retarded nitwit!
November 21st, 2005 at 5:21 pm46 years ago? oh boy. that explains it all.
November 21st, 2005 at 5:21 pmWouldn’t it just have been cheaper and easier to have found a reason to forgive Saddam’s past indiscretions (for example see “A. Chalabiâ€) to achieve the greater good ( for backround see “oil propfitsâ€)?
November 21st, 2005 at 5:21 pmThis war would be the same war if it was held just about anywhere in the middle east or North Africa. Build it and the insurgents will come. But it just so happens to be coincidentally where the second largest oil supply is. The war can’t be at the first largest oil supply, the Arabs are our “allies”, the little two faced mo-fo’s.
November 21st, 2005 at 5:23 pmAll you oil slicksters need to stop spilling your rufuse!
November 21st, 2005 at 5:24 pm152 - drank the cool-aid
November 21st, 2005 at 5:25 pm#179,
No kidding. Iraqis when polled this month actually say americans are more brutal and oppressive than Saddam was. It’s part of why the insurgency has been able to draw so many participants.
Republicans run wars like Enron ran financial statements. Bad planning, bad execution all encased in lies.
November 21st, 2005 at 5:27 pmIt’s all about the oil, if you don’t think so, you have been fooled.
Let me guess, LAChuck, you are older, and think oil will last forever, and you love to daydream about the industrial revolution and WWII?
November 21st, 2005 at 5:27 pm181 - took me serious. Funny.
November 21st, 2005 at 5:30 pmI would sure like to know how they come up with “left” media. Can the trolls please explain that? Why do you say they are “left?” What makes them “left” and how do you arrive at that conclusion?
November 21st, 2005 at 5:31 pmhttp://thinkprogress.org/
November 21st, 2005 at 5:31 pmnew breaking story, and this one ought to get real good.
Sorry LAChuck.
November 21st, 2005 at 5:32 pmIf Rove was really as smart as everyone says he is then Rove would have Cheney’s mouth duct tape shut.
November 21st, 2005 at 5:40 pmI don’t understand why they let Cheney talk. He is burying the GOP deeper with every speech.
Don’t blame Rove. Attacking your opponent’s patriotism worked a year ago!
Maybe they need another tax cut?
November 21st, 2005 at 5:41 pm“The truth is, there is no Islamic army or terrorist group called Al Qaida. And any informed intelligence officer knows this. But there is a propaganda campaign to make the public believe in the presence of an identified entity representing the ‘devil’ only in order to drive the ‘TV watcher’ to accept a unified international leadership for a war against terrorism. The country behind this propaganda is the US and the lobbyists for the US war on terrorism are only interested in making money.”
http://thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=3836
“Shortly before his untimely death, former British Foreign Secretary Robin Cook told the House of Commons that “Al Qaeda” is not really a terrorist group but a database of international mujaheddin and arms smugglers used by the CIA and Saudis…”
November 21st, 2005 at 5:44 pm#7Is this Dick’s heart