Writing this morning in the Wall Street Journal, Sen. Joe Lieberman (D-CT) claims Iraqi leaders want a commitment that U.S. troops will stay until whenever “the Iraqi military is capable of security the country”:
And, I am convinced, almost all of the progress in Iraq and throughout the Middle East will be lost if those forces are withdrawn faster than the Iraqi military is capable of securing the country.
The leaders of Iraq’s duly elected government understand this, and they asked me for reassurance about America’s commitment. The question is whether the American people and enough of their representatives in Congress from both parties understand this.
The Iraqi leaders, however, have said publicly that they want the United States to set a firm timetable for withdrawal immediately. From the AP, 11/22/05:
Leaders of Iraq’s sharply divided Shiites, Kurds and Sunnis called Monday for a timetable for the withdrawal of U.S.-led forces in the country and said Iraq’s opposition had a “legitimate right” of resistance.
The real position of the Iraqi leadership is they want a definitive timetable for withdrawal from the U.S. The question is whether Joe Lieberman will ever understand this.
if anything at all good came out of Gore’s loss in ‘00, it’s that this guy never became our Veep…
November 29th, 2005 at 10:39 amIt looks like that tomorrow Bush will announce plans for a large draw down in US troop levels after the December elections, to the point where it is hoped that Iraq will not be an issue in the mid-term elections.
Iraq, of course, will descend into civil war, which Bush will wash his hands of.
November 29th, 2005 at 10:41 amLeaders of Iraq’s sharply divided Shiites, Kurds and Sunnis called Monday for a timetable for the withdrawal of U.S.-led forces in the country and said Iraq’s opposition had a “legitimate right’’ of resistance.
As I’ve pointed out before, this is a bald faced lie. The “leaders” referred to by Think Communist are not Iraqi government leaders. They are delegates to the Arab League and have no more official standing than any other Iraqi citizen.
This is why you people are going to end up with squat after the next election cycle.
November 29th, 2005 at 10:45 amIraq, of course, will descend into civil war, which Bush will wash his hands of.
Comment by Ugh
There will be no large draw down of troops until the Iraqi army is up to speed. George will certainly not give the Filthy Left Wing of the Democratic Party what they want and they do want civil war. Take it to the bank.
November 29th, 2005 at 10:48 amIRI:
That’s simply not true. Please re-read the article:
The conference was attended by Iraqi President Jalal Talabani and Iraqi Shiite and Kurdish lawmakers, as well as leading Sunni politicians.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/ worldlatest/ story/ 0,1280,-5431131,00.html
November 29th, 2005 at 10:50 amBush as Jesus and Pontius Pilate.
How fitting, he must look at Colin Powell as his Judas to be sure.
Note too how the Bush, large scale withdrawl announcement will be hailed by the kooky-right. “We are winning the war on terror, George is brave and resolute.”
Me, I say: FLIP, FLOP, FLIP, FLOP…….
-GSD
November 29th, 2005 at 10:51 amAs I’ve pointed out before, this is a bald faced lie.
You’re calling the AP a liar?? Did you bother to read the whole article?
November 29th, 2005 at 10:52 amI-Right-I, yelling and posturing is all good but references are better. Do you have a reference so that the rest of us have the same info you do?
November 29th, 2005 at 10:55 amThere will be no large draw down of troops until the Iraqi army is up to speed. George will certainly not give the Filthy Left Wing of the Democratic Party what they want and they do want civil war.
Talk to me in June.
November 29th, 2005 at 10:55 amIraq is already in a civil war, duh. The Shiites are killing the Sunni’s and vice versa. The only ones that are neutral are the Kurds.
Bushie caused a civil war in Iraq and now the leaders of Iraq want to fix the problem among themselves. They know that failure was a part of Bushies agenda. They know that Bushie wants his cronies to continue making billions off of the suffering of Iraqi’s.
Bushie thinks he’s gonna save face by talking about withdrawal but we all know that our troops are there forever if we allow it.
Impeach Bushie and Cheney, they are failures on purpose.
November 29th, 2005 at 10:58 amAs cited above, not only was the Iraqi President there, so was the Interior Minister who actually gave a one year timetable for US withdrawl. I know, I-Right-I, the facts are biased against you.
As to your assertion that W. will never allow Iraq to sink into Civil War, which the Left Wing supposedly wants, you might try reading the news. W.’s puppet leader Allawi has stated that the human rights situation is worse now than under Saddam, a prison was discovered where Sunnis were being tortured by Shiite Govt soldiers and uniformed shiite militias are patrolling and abducting and killing Sunnis. Meanwhile, Sunnis are bombing Shiite mosques. I hate to break it to you, but, because you’re a slow learner I will, the civil war is going on now and there’s nothing we can do to stop it at this point. The only question now is how many Americans are going to die in the war.
November 29th, 2005 at 11:00 amNever trust the Guardian.
VIENNA, Austria - Talks on withdrawing U.S.-led foreign troops from Iraq can begin as early as at the end of next year, Iraq’s president said Monday, adding that British troops likely could start a “step-by-step” exit in 2007.
President Jalal Talabani, in Austria to attend a three-day conference on Islam, gave no timetable for the full pullout of troops.
http://72.14.203.104/ search?q=cache:YJ658itnQPgJ:news.yahoo.com/ s/ ap/ 20051114/ ap_on_re_eu/ iraq_talabani_4+Jalal+Talabani+pull+out&hl=en
“We think that in the next two years, we will have come so far and our police forces will have been sufficiently trained, that it will be possible to begin talks about pulling out foreign troops, either during next year or after next year,” he said.
November 29th, 2005 at 11:04 amBush as Jesus and Pontius Pilate.
The latter certainly fits. He already has a vewwy good fwiend named Biggus Dickus….
November 29th, 2005 at 11:07 amThat “start talks about pulling out” doesn’t sound like a demand to me. In addition the idea that the President of Iraq would agree that Sunni terror bombing could ever be considered “legitimate” is beyond the pale. The fact that he showed up at an Arab League conference does not mean he endorsed the outcome. I’m sure there will be more on that but you won’t read it in the Guardian or Think Communist.
But the bottom line is this….we’ll out when we’re damn good and ready. Probably about the time we’re scheduled to arrive in Iran…heh.
November 29th, 2005 at 11:11 amYou sure sem to put a lot of stock in this week-old article about a “…preparatory reconciliation conference…”.
I know you folks just absolutely hateHateHATE Joe Lieberman, but do you seriously believe this article - which gives no numbers as to how many attended this conference, and only mentions (aside from the president of Iraq) only one by name - is some sort of “gotcha!”
Notice that Lieberman says he was speaking to, “…leaders of Iraq’s duly elected government…”, not some conference attendees in Cairo.
Notice also that, contrary to your exaggerated claim that ,”…they want a definitive timetable for withdrawal from the U.S.”, your article notes that the communique, “… did not lay down a specific time - reflecting instead the government’s stance that Iraqi security forces must be built up first.”
You make it seem like they were pressing the U.S. for an immediate timetable instead of recognizing that their own forces need time to train and mature before the U.S. leaves.
November 29th, 2005 at 11:14 amMEMBERS OF THE NEW IRAQ ARMY ARE ONLY IN IT FOR THE MONEY
At least, that is what is explained to us in the film Gunner Palace. It shows how they join just for something to do, to get paid. Once the Americans leave, American soldiers are worried all they worked to build will just fall apart.
I believe this after hearing the news from General Abizaid that only one Iraqi battalion could operate on its own.
So since this is the case after years of being in Iraq… and we have Republicans claiming we will stay until the Iraqis can support themselves… how much longer will that be? Assuming it will take 1 more year and 2,000 more American deaths to complete ANOTHER Iraqi battalions training, I fear how long and how many lives will be lost to train ALL the Iraqis.
Other Republicans, mostly the Bush Admin… are saying they will pull out ground troops and replace them with air power. Wont that just mean more civilian deaths? How will THAT end the war? Sounds like it would just make things worse. Our standing with both Insurgents and the world would increase.
Bush supporters, stop aiding Americas downfall by making us look worse, by keeping the doors open to let soldiers die. You have to get over your childish need to want to be the ‘winner’. You KNOW your argument about… if we leave, we put ourselves in danger… that is complete bogus. I KNOW that at this point you’ve learned that Iraq had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks. The mere fact that you choose to admit that fact shows you have a long way to come in terms of maturity, and patriotism.
But please… keep returning to ThinkProgress. I love knowing that as Republican as you are… you’re still reading the truth. And as much as you post against it, you’re abosorbing it. And I have a good feeling that eventually it will click. It’s hard for a stubborn person to see the other side. I’m looking forward to when you do.
November 29th, 2005 at 11:16 amI hate to break it to you, but, because you’re a slow learner I will, the civil war is going on now and there’s nothing we can do to stop it at this point. The only question now is how many Americans are going to die in the war.
Comment by Dick (no, not that one)
There will be no civil war. There very well may be a Civil Slaughter. It’s funny but the only thing that saved Fallujiah from total destruction were the Americans. The Iraqi Shi’ites wanted to kill everyone in the city.
Dead Americans? You’ll be pleased to learn that Americans are dying because you on the Filthy Left would rather have them die on the ground than do what needs to be done from the air.
I blame George Bush for not having the balls to kill the enemy including the women and children they hide behind.
November 29th, 2005 at 11:17 am#18
Good, come back and tell us all about how we aren’t drawing down troop levels after Bush gives his pull out speech tomorrow.
November 29th, 2005 at 11:18 amI-RIGHT-I
You do understand what it means when a newspaper uses a story credited to the AP, right? Any newspaper that is part of the AP can use that same story and you could probably find it printed by a different paper or newssite whose credentials you like… say Fox News for example…
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,176338,00.html
November 29th, 2005 at 11:19 amOther Republicans, mostly the Bush Admin… are saying they will pull out ground troops and replace them with air power. Wont that just mean more civilian deaths? How will THAT end the war? Sounds like it would just make things worse. Our standing with both Insurgents and the world would increase.
Comment by MagnumDB
Another kind of war protestor….YIKES!!!
The leader of Iraq’s most powerful political party has called on the United States to let Iraqi fighters take a more aggressive role against insurgents, saying his country will only be able to defeat the insurgency when the United States lets Iraqis get tough.
“The more freedom given to Iraqis, the more chance for further progress there would be, particularly in fighting terror,†said Abdul Aziz Hakim, head of the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq, the Shiite Muslim religious party that leads the transitional government and whose armed wing is the most feared of Iraq’s many factional forces.
Instead, Hakim asserted in a rare interview late last week, the United States is tying Iraq’s hands in the fight against insurgents. One of Iraq’s “biggest problems is the mistaken or wrong policies practiced by the Americans,†he said.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ wp-dyn/ content/ article/ 2005/ 11/ 26/ AR2005112601211.html
Now, let’s be clear. This is one of the real leaders of Iraq and he’s telling us to get out of the way and let them do what needs to be done to clean out the Sunni Triangle and the Sunni insurgents coming in from Syria and Iran. I think he’s tired of his mosques, grade schools and weddings being bombed and his people killed. The good thing is when he gets his chance (and he will) there won’t be any peace/love/dove Leftwing Loser Democrats around crying about abuse and atrocities committed against the terrorists and tying the hands of the military. Why? Because he’ll kill all the whiners he can and deport the rest. There will be no more Democrats visiting Iraq. So who do you think really wants to cut troops and hand over more responsibility to the Iraqis? Bush or the Donks?
November 29th, 2005 at 11:19 amBTW
“Dead Americans? You’ll be pleased to learn that Americans are dying because you on the Filthy Left would rather have them die on the ground than do what needs to be done from the air.”
Is this the new talking point?
We already know Bush will pull out ground troops and replace with air power, but I find your new talking point to be odd.
November 29th, 2005 at 11:19 amI-RIGHT-I,
You are simply wrong, as Judd pointed out, in regards to your comments in post #3.
The article reads: “under the auspices of the Arab League,” and the definition of auspices is: “kindly patronage and guidance.” It also goes on to say: “The conference was attended by Iraqi President Jalal Talabani and Iraqi Shiite and Kurdish lawmakers, as well as leading Sunni politicians.”
Therefore, the Iraqi political leaders were conferring on the topic under the guidance of the Arab League.
As far as your post #13 is concerned, that article was published 8 days prior to the one Judd is referencing. Prior to the conference with the Arab League.
So who is not to be trusted? The Gaurdian? Think Progress? AP? Or you?
“States are not moral agents.” -Chomsky
November 29th, 2005 at 11:20 amOkaaaay,
#18 seems to be insane.
November 29th, 2005 at 11:21 amMaybe it is best to leave to his own scary thoughts?
I-RIGHT-I
You do understand what it means when a newspaper uses a story credited to the AP, right? Any newspaper that is part of the AP can use that same story and you could probably find it printed by a different paper or newssite whose credentials you like… say Fox News for example…
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,176338,00.html
Comment by dwahzon
Sorry…I should have said, “Never trust the spin Judd puts on a story.” But the fact remains, the President of Iraq did not call for a pull out or demand that a timetable for a pull out be set. Do you agree or not?
November 29th, 2005 at 11:21 amDon’t trust the Guardian? Maybe we should listen to the voices in your head, IRI? Goebbels would be rpoud of you, Nazi. Throw out a statement as if a fact, then when presented with the proof, you attack the proof.
November 29th, 2005 at 11:22 amI-RIGHT-I
Maybe this is the part you lissed from the latest news piece from the Arab League Summit:
“The final communique, hammered out at the end of three days of negotiations at a preparatory reconciliation conference under the auspices of the Arab League, condemned terrorism, but was a clear acknowledgment of the Sunni position that insurgents should not be labeled as terrorists if their operations do not target innocent civilians or institutions designed to provide for the welfare of Iraqi citizens.”
See how it says “The final communique”? That means it came after what you are talking about. You are 2 weeks behind on news. Catch up.
November 29th, 2005 at 11:22 am#25
“But the fact remains, the President of Iraq did not call for a pull out or demand that a timetable for a pull out be set.”
No he didn’t TWO WEEKS AGO. He did last week. Moron. Catch up with the rest of the world.
November 29th, 2005 at 11:24 amAs far as your post #13 is concerned, that article was published 8 days prior to the one Judd is referencing. Prior to the conference with the Arab League.
So who is not to be trusted? The Gaurdian? Think Progress? AP? Or you?
“States are not moral agents.†-Chomsky
Comment by Elvis
Find a quote from Iraq’s president that contradicts what he already said, “No time table for a pull out, we’ll talk about it.”
November 29th, 2005 at 11:25 amNo he didn’t TWO WEEKS AGO. He did last week. Moron. Catch up with the rest of the world.
Comment by SpudgeBoy
Show me a quote or shut up.
November 29th, 2005 at 11:26 amThose including the so called liberals , who want to stay the course and train Iraqui forces to proficiency have never been to war , never had bombs falling over their heads , never experienced the Gestapo or any hostile police force never suffered physically or psychologically of the effects of war . They love to send other men to do their biddings for they benefit from the raquet of war .
November 29th, 2005 at 11:26 amJudd,
Can we change to a registered site, so I can put these moron trolls on my ignore list? I would happily pay money to not have to read this morons bullsh!t.
November 29th, 2005 at 11:27 amWe already know Bush will pull out ground troops and replace with air power, but I find your new talking point to be odd.
Comment by SpudgeBoy
You “know” no such thing.
November 29th, 2005 at 11:27 am“Show me a quote or shut up.”
You shut the fvck up. Nobody here agrees with anything you say. You must have some type of mental problem that would make you want to hang out where nobody likes you.
November 29th, 2005 at 11:29 am“You “know†no such thing.”
Yes we do dumb ass. Just because you are unimnformed doesn’t mean other people are.
November 29th, 2005 at 11:29 amThose including the so called liberals , who want to stay the course and train Iraqui forces to proficiency have never been to war , never had bombs falling over their heads , never experienced the Gestapo or any hostile police force never suffered physically or psychologically of the effects of war . They love to send other men to do their biddings for they benefit from the raquet of war .
Comment by hardass
Not true. There are more Vets that support what the USA is doing than not. But I see your point. War is so terrible that slavery and slaughter is better than fighting. Yep, got ya. Go stand in the corner dumbass.
November 29th, 2005 at 11:31 amYes we do dumb ass. Just because you are unimnformed doesn’t mean other people are.
Comment by SpudgeBoy
Provide a quote or shut up.
November 29th, 2005 at 11:31 am“Show me a quote or shut up.â€
You shut the fvck up. Nobody here agrees with anything you say. You must have some type of mental problem that would make you want to hang out where nobody likes you.
Comment by SpudgeBoy
Well there ya go. Spudge explains in detail why I’m wrong. Nice comeback Spudge.
November 29th, 2005 at 11:32 amDon’t trust the Guardian? Maybe we should listen to the voices in your head, IRI? Goebbels would be rpoud of you, Nazi. Throw out a statement as if a fact, then when presented with the proof, you attack the proof.
Comment by TerrytheTurtle
Hi Terry,
November 29th, 2005 at 11:33 amWhen are you going to come over and see me at NoPC?
“Dead Americans? You’ll be pleased to learn that Americans are dying because you on the Filthy Left would rather have them die on the ground than do what needs to be done from the air.â€
So Bush is being prevented from prosecuting the war exactly how he damn well pleases? Let me guess. His battlefield decisions were overruled by Ted Kennedy?
Americans are dying because the Commander In Chief put them in a bad spot. Period.
November 29th, 2005 at 11:34 amYou know I-RIGHT-I that it doesn’t matter if the president of Iraq said it, just as in the US. US Senators and House Reps say and do things all the time that aren’t said by Bush.
You need to get e grip on reality dickhead.
November 29th, 2005 at 11:34 am“There are more Vets that support what the USA is doing than not.”
You’ve seen a poll that we haven’t? Please provide a citation for that!
November 29th, 2005 at 11:37 amcyncial ex-hippie,
Don’t bother, he won’t.
November 29th, 2005 at 11:37 amJudd,
Can we change to a registered site, so I can put these moron trolls on my ignore list? I would happily pay money to not have to read this morons bullsh!t.
Comment by SpudgeBoy
Just take your medicine and shut up Spudge. It’s good for you.
November 29th, 2005 at 11:38 amSeem’s to me Joe Lieberman sold out the democrats a long time ago. I’M from Conn. and hope he run’s next
November 29th, 2005 at 11:39 amtime, as he truly is, a Republicrat.
Judd,
Can we change to a registered site, so I can put these moron trolls on my ignore list? I would happily pay money to not have to read this morons bullsh!t.
Comment by SpudgeBoy
If you, Ryan, Terry and a few others pony up $100.00 each and deposit it into my Paypal account I’ll leave. Promise.
November 29th, 2005 at 11:40 amSeem’s to me Joe Lieberman sold out the democrats a long time ago. I’M from Conn. and hope he run’s next
time, as he truly is, a Republicrat.
Comment by Jane
He didn’t sell out the Democrats. He’s simply refused to join with the Filthy Left Wing of the party. Big difference. The only chance the Democratic Party has of ever becoming a viable political counter point to the Republicans is tear the thing down and rebuild around classic liberals like Joe. If we could hang Kennedy, Pelosi, and the rest of the traitors in the Donk Filthy Left I’d probably vote Democrat again. Maybe.
November 29th, 2005 at 11:44 amSeem’s to me Joe Lieberman sold out the democrats a long time ago. I’M from Conn. and hope he run’s next
time, as he truly is, a Republicrat.
Comment by Jane
He didn’t sell out the Democrats. He’s simply refused to join with the Filthy Left Wing of the party. Big difference. The only chance the Democratic Party has of ever becoming a viable political counter point to the Republicans is tear the thing down and rebuild around classic liberals like Joe. If we could hang Kennedy, Pelosi, and the rest of the traitors in the Donk Filthy Left I’d probably vote Democrat again. Maybe.
November 29th, 2005 at 11:44 am“If you, Ryan, Terry and a few others pony up $100.00 each and deposit it into my Paypal account I’ll leave. Promise.”
I would, but I don’t trust you to be honest about anything. I would pay all $300 if you would go away, but I know you would just post under a different name.
November 29th, 2005 at 11:47 am“I’d probably vote Democrat again.”
Like you ever voted Deomcrat. You are as Right Wing as it comes. Do you lie to make friends?
November 29th, 2005 at 11:48 amI-RIGHT-I,
Quotes that you asked for:
AP: http://www.guardian.co.uk/ worldlatest/ story/ 0,1280,-5431131,00.html
Participants at the Arab Leauge conference were “calling for the withdrawal of foreign troops according to a timetable, through putting in place an immediate national program to rebuild the armed forces … control the borders and the security situation.” The Iraqi president was in attendence, therefore this was stated on his behalf.
From Yahoo (Reuters):
http://news.yahoo.com/ news?tmpl=story&cid=578&u=/ nm/ 20051129/ ts_nm/ iraq_usa_withdrawal_dc_3
Iraq’s National Security Adviser, Mowaffaq al-Rubaie:
“I believe that early next year up to 30,000 troops can leave Iraq because we believe that we have laid down the groundwork for them to leave.”
Enough? Or do you need more?
November 29th, 2005 at 11:51 amEnough? Or do you need more?
Comment by Elvis
The “security advisor” isn’t the President, is he? That does not qualify Judd’s assertion that
“The Iraqi leaders, however, have said publicly that they want the United States to set a firm timetable for withdrawal immediately. From the AP, 11/22/05:”
If you think the President of Iraq is going to contradict George Bush about “no time table” then you just don’t understand how this is going to play out. We’ll leave when we’re damn good and ready and not when a bunch of Arab League thugs tell us to, or when a bunch of “lose at any cost” Democrats want us to.
November 29th, 2005 at 12:03 pmI-RIGHT-I
“The Iraqi leaders, however, have said publicly that they want the United States to set a firm timetable for withdrawal immediately. From the AP, 11/22/05:â€
There is absolutely nothing incorrect abou this statement. You are a retard and nobody gives a flying fvck what you have to say.
November 29th, 2005 at 12:07 pm“If you, Ryan, Terry and a few others pony up $100.00 each and deposit it into my Paypal account I’ll leave. Promise.â€
I would, but I don’t trust you to be honest about anything. I would pay all $300 if you would go away, but I know you would just post under a different name.
Comment by SpudgeBoy
Wow. That must be three or four months worth of allowance money. You really must want me to go away and leave you to your Left Wing circle jerk. That makes me very happy. Thanks.
November 29th, 2005 at 12:08 pmJudd,
November 29th, 2005 at 12:09 pmiwrongee is dissin’ you guy. We can’t do anything about that, but you can. Only you can stop trolls in our midst. We don’t want complete agreement on board here, and as good liberals are apt, we won’t even agree with each other much of the time, but you guy, you have the power. Please bless us with your use of THE MIGHTY BOOTING. Yes, I ask that you prune the tree of those who would make your blog a dump. Go ahead, make all our day.
When you know about Joe Lieberman, what he thinks, why he supports this war “big time” you will understand why Joe says the things he does.
November 29th, 2005 at 12:15 pm“Iraq’s factions urge a schedule for troop pullout
100 Sunni, Shiite, Kurdish leaders reach agreement”
This wasn’t 3 iraqis pretending to say something, this was a bulk of current iraqi leaders. They say they want a withdrawal. MizzWrong clearly demonstrates that her head is still under the rock that hit her and made her retarded…
November 29th, 2005 at 12:22 pmAll of the ‘chickenhawks’ claim that veterans are behind them, as they continually insult ALL of the veterans that disagree with them. It’s such a psychotic break from reality, so typically republican whacko…
November 29th, 2005 at 12:24 pmAs for the ‘claim’ that veterans are for the war, in may 2004 the cbsnews poll showed that before approval of the war had completely plummeted, veterans were fairly evenly split over the war. Those numbers have gone down hill since.
Republicans always ‘anecdotally’ think they’re popular, just like a high school kid who has now idea what a misfit he/she is. Polls, facts, and science are always the enemy of the ‘faith based’ republican moron…
November 29th, 2005 at 12:32 pm“Wow. That must be three or four months worth of allowance money.”
Nope, that is just a couple of hours worth of work for me. I have a great job. If you weren’t a moron, you would know that I am a PR person and an International Marketing Manager. I make good money. Doesn’t that drive you insane, that a Democrat has one of your corporate jobs. Hah ah aha ha ha ha.
November 29th, 2005 at 12:35 pmJudd, I think you’re selectively quoting. Lieberman wouldn’t be right to deny that a timetable was called for by Iraqis. But the timetable issue didn’t stand alone.
From what I’ve found on the communique issued by the Iraqi parties, the parties were:
“calling for the withdrawal of foreign troops according to a timetable, through putting in place an immediate national program to rebuild the armed forces . . . control the borders and the security situation”
(Boston Globe, 11/22/05, http://www.boston.com/ news/ world/ middleeast/ articles/ 2005/ 11/ 23/ iran_urges_timetable_for_us_to_leave_iraq/ ?rss_id=Boston+Globe+–+World+News
The timetable issue is explicitly LINKED to the issue of rebuilding Iraqi Security Forces in the communique.
So we can’t have withdrawal without security, according to the statements of the Iraqi parties. This notion of withdrawal is much closer to President Bush’s “as the Iraqis stand up, we can stand down” formulation than it is to any of the “redeployment” or timetable formulas than I have seen.
So don’t oversimplify the issue by saying what the Iraqis want is a withdrawal.
November 29th, 2005 at 12:40 pmProfessor van Creveld the only non-American author on the US Army’s list of required reading for officers, says bush’s invasion of iraq is “the most foolish war since Emperor Augustus in 9 BC sent his legions into Germany and lost them.”
The full article is here, and it’s great reading…
http://www.guardian.co.uk/ Iraq/ Story/ 0,2763,1653454,00.html
November 29th, 2005 at 12:51 pmI call for an open ban on any response to I-Right-I.
He’s not an American in any sense of the word- he’s a self-acknowledged Hitler-loving Nazi AssClown, and not deserving of any polite or impolite discourse. Maybe he’ll eventually return to WhiteSupremicistIncestSupportGroup.org, or whatever insecurity-driven community he comes from.
The guy is an insignificant Bag of Mayonnaise. Don’t waste your time.
November 29th, 2005 at 1:02 pmjparker,
That’s the strategy that democrats have done for years, how do you think that’s working for the party? A rant that goes unchallenged is accepted as fact by readers. An unfortunate truth…
November 29th, 2005 at 1:12 pmAs much as I hat eto admit it, Ryan is correct. The Deomcrats have been standing back not standing up for what is right. Look at what happened to John Kerry and the Swiftboaters. He didn’t even say “That’s not true” It was later found to be false info, bu the election was over by them.
We can’t let these asshats continue to spew their garbage and let it sit. That is when this site gets over run by republican lies.
November 29th, 2005 at 1:19 pmHello, I was just visiting this board after being referred from another blog. I notice a comment from somebody calling himself I-RIGHT-I who states “I blame George Bush for not having the balls to kill the enemy including the women and children they hide behind.”
November 29th, 2005 at 1:37 pmThere’s a very simple solution to that: run right down to the recruiting office at your local strip mall, raise your right in, and take the oath of enlistment. You too can have an exciting trip to Iraq. Anmd for years from now, you can look forward to disturbing memories, survivor guilt and painful anxiety.
From the WSJ yesterday:
In recent weeks most Democrats seem to have have concluded that the war effort is a sinking ship, the American people have already jumped overboard, and if Democratic politicians follow them off the side, the people will reward them by putting them in charge of the life rafts. The Washington Post notes some poll results that suggest the Dems are all wet:
Seventy percent of people surveyed said that criticism of the war by Democratic senators hurts troop morale–with 44 percent saying morale is hurt “a lot,” according to a poll taken by RT Strategies. Even self-identified Democrats agree: 55 percent believe criticism hurts morale, while 21 percent say it helps morale. . . .
Their poll also indicates many Americans are skeptical of Democratic complaints about the war. Just three of 10 adults accept that Democrats are leveling criticism because they believe this will help U.S. efforts in Iraq. A majority believes the motive is really to “gain a partisan political advantage.”
The Washington Times’ Jennifer Harper and the Los Angeles Times’ Max Boot both note the result of another poll, this one by the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press, which shows that the general public is considerably more optimistic about Iraq than just about any group of “opinion leaders.” Respondents were asked if they thought efforts to establish a successful democracy there will succeed or fail:
Succeed Fail
November 29th, 2005 at 1:40 pmNews media 33% 63%
Foreign affairs 28% 71%
Security 28% 70%
State/local government 51% 45%
Academic/think tank 27% 71%
Religious leaders 41% 56%
Scientists/engineers 13% 84%
Military 64% 32%
General public 56% 37%
Good old Joe. He’s the best republican the democrats could send. This guy needs replaced in his next term election, he’s not a democrat.
November 29th, 2005 at 1:41 pmBen,
Let me debunk that poll for you real quick.
Here is a link to the actual poll.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ wp-srv/ politics/ documents/ RT_Topline_2005-11-20_Final_PtP.pdf
The most important part can be found on page 4.
How would you describe your political views?
14 Very conservative
24 Somewhat conservative
32 Moderate
19 Somewhat liberal
8 Very liberal
2 Not sure/refused
That would be:
38 TOTAL Conservative
27 TOTAL Liberal
This poll is skewed to the right.
November 29th, 2005 at 1:52 pmI-RIGHT-I on indiscriminate killings and genocide:
I blame George Bush for not having the balls to kill the enemy including the women and children they hide behind.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — November 29, 2005 @ 11:17 am
I don’t think much of the Red Chinese. I find it helps to dehumanize them when considering that one of these days we’re going to kill over a billion of them. I feel the same way about rabid homosexual leftists like you too though like your brothers the Reds you do much to facilitate the transformation.
Comment by I-RIgHT-I — November 27, 2005 @ 2:53 pm
“Kill all their leaders and convert the rest to Christianity”. That’s probably one of my favorite Coulter quotes. It’s so funny and yet such a good idea too.
November 29th, 2005 at 1:54 pmComment by I-RIgHT-I — November 27, 2005 @ 10:18 am
the true point is that we should not even be worrying about iraq.thats why they all hate us.every night i pray that all the oil will just dry up.maybe if we all pray to god tonight it will happen.and then only the self-sufficant will survive.a world where people take care of themselves,what a concept.
November 29th, 2005 at 2:32 pmdon’t be left
don’t be right
don’t depend on anybody but yourself
talk to god and he will teach
help others in need,not lazy people
Oh…I get it…”Right between the eyes!” Gee, that’s soooo clever!
November 29th, 2005 at 2:48 pmI-RIGHT-I on indiscriminate killings and genocide:
[…]KILL, KILL, KILL, etc. etc.[..]
Comment by Gregor Samsa
Thanks for playing the “Best Of IRI” Gregor but please, I think I’ve been very discriminating when talking about the kind of folks I think should be dead. It’s you Left Wing Losers who don’t like discrimination. HA!
November 29th, 2005 at 2:52 pmOh…I get it…â€Right between the eyes!†Gee, that’s soooo clever!
Comment by Your Butt Cheek-Left-Your Butt Cheek — November 29, 2005 @ 2:48 pm
Nice catch…please note rolling of the eyes.
November 29th, 2005 at 2:54 pmthe true point is that we should not even be worrying about iraq.thats why they all hate us.every night i pray that all the oil will just dry up.maybe if we all pray to god tonight it will happen.and then only the self-sufficant will survive.a world where people take care of themselves,what a concept.
don’t be left
don’t be right
don’t depend on anybody but yourself
talk to god and he will teach
help others in need,not lazy people
Comment by bud
Get. Better. Drugs. Now.
November 29th, 2005 at 2:55 pmMizzWrong,
Believing your political opponents should be dead is a clear sign of paranoid schizophrenia. You are a sick retarded fool.
November 29th, 2005 at 2:55 pm“Get. Better. Drugs. Now.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I”
Those drugs are handed out by the APA, which in your own words is a hack organization. How is it that you can advocate that one is supposed to get drugs to treat mental illness, when the source of those drugs is in fact an organization you say is ineffective?
This is yet another cognitive dissonance you whacko sicko retard.
November 29th, 2005 at 2:57 pm#15 has it right. You guys cherry pick what you want from the article. It says:
“Sunni leaders have been pressing the Shiite-majority government to agree to a timetable for the withdrawal of all foreign troops. The statement recognized that goal, but did not lay down a specific time - reflecting instead the government’s stance that Iraqi security forces must be built up first.”
I’m sorry, but you guys are living in your own little fantasy world over here. You start with your lens of Bush-hatred, and then model your world view to fit into it. I can just imagine the alternate universe where we never invaded Iraq, and then Saddam starts causing all sorts of havoc years later. Then you guys would be talking about how Bush was an idiot for letting Saddam stay in power.
Invading Iraq was not a policy born under the Bush adminstration. It was created by the Clinton administration but never executed because the idiot Republicans wouldn’t allow it then.
I don’t mind anyone criticizing the war. But instead I want to hear alternative strategies to dealing with Islamic fundamentalism and other enemies of our country.
November 29th, 2005 at 3:03 pmHow is it that you can advocate that one is supposed to get drugs to treat mental illness, when the source of those drugs is in fact an organization you say is ineffective?
Comment by Ryan “Call me the Breeze” Neat
The APA is filthy with homosexuals but if a homo knows anything it’s where to get good drugs.
November 29th, 2005 at 3:06 pmTimeForChange,
We don’t HATE bush, as much as we feel sorry for him, with him being retarded and all…
I’ve traveled the world, and know quite well about how people think, do you?
I posted alternatives on the next thread up. You, like most retarded republicans, don’t know many alternatives have been proposed, because you only open your mouths and shut your ears when others talk. You’re petty stupid little children who are too inept and ignorant to fill the shoes you walk in.
Grow up little boy, expand your horizons, and realize that your party is full of bullsh!t artists, and that you’ve become one of them.
November 29th, 2005 at 3:07 pm“The APA is filthy with homosexuals but if a homo knows anything it’s where to get good drugs.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I ”
Then you should have shared your drug source with bud, since by your own omission you’re the ‘homo’ expert.
November 29th, 2005 at 3:07 pmHOMOPHOBIA = REPRESED HOMOSEXUAL
They’ve done ’scientific studies’ that prove this you know MizzWrong. But wait, you’re a religious fanatic, you don’t believe in science do you? Of course you don’t, that’s why you’re a retarded little fool..
November 29th, 2005 at 3:08 pmSo many of us are forgetting how we felt when we watched innocent citizens JUMP to their friggin deaths from the world trade center!! The muslim fanatics started blowing innocent American’s up before the FIRST world trade center attack in 1993!! (NO we weren’t in Iraq in 1993)
The Clinton administration just talked tough for 8 yrs, and looked the other way. (but did attack big bad BOSNIA without UN permission) Who can argue with that? Its past time we fight back!! Joe Lieberman has it exactly right…don’t back down and take the fight to those who are trying to KILL us.
If there’s another 9-11 type attack in our country, and its proven the terrorist’s came across our open borders, then woe to Bush. Impeachment WOULD be justified!! But until then, this 21 yr Navy submarine veteran fully supports the administration!! How can we expect to survive as a country, if we don’t defend ourselves??
November 29th, 2005 at 3:09 pmI don’t mind anyone criticizing the war. But instead I want to hear alternative strategies to dealing with Islamic fundamentalism and other enemies of our country.
Comment by TimeForChange
“Kill all their leaders and convert the rest to Chrisianity.”
That will work on every enemy the USA has. Then once we do that we can do the same in the USA.
November 29th, 2005 at 3:09 pmI-RIGHT-I,
#51 - “We’ll leave when we’re damn good and ready and not when a bunch of Arab League thugs tell us to, or when a bunch of “lose at any cost†Democrats want us to.”
Wrong again. Like it or not, the President and the right wing do not have that much power. They can be forced to leave by the people, and they can be forced to leave by corporate influence, and they can be forced to leave by the U.N., they can be forced to leave by the insurgency, they can be forced to leave because of oil prices.. and on and on.
Also, who they hell are you to say that “we’ll leave when we’re god damn good and ready?” IT’S THEIR COUNTRY!! Are you really that egotistical?
“States are not moral agents.” -Chomsky
November 29th, 2005 at 3:24 pmMizzWrong,
Europe tried that for centuries, and ended up in the dark ages and over a thousand years of strife. Not only is your preconception disproven by history, it’s also just more whacko nonsense from a religious moron. By the way, Osama believes the same thing you do, except he just believes conversion to islam is the answer. Funny how you and terrorists consistently think alike - funny, but not accidental.
November 29th, 2005 at 3:25 pmThat’s the strategy that democrats have done for years, how do you think that’s working for the party? A rant that goes unchallenged is accepted as fact by readers. An unfortunate truth…
Comment by Ryan Neat — November 29, 2005 @ 1:12 pm
Agreed- in most cases it’s worth standing up against an adverse organized ideology, and I do that everyday with conservative peers and family members. But IRI goes beyond representing a particular political movement - in his case you’re not really arguing with NeoConservative values per se, although it’s a convenient vehicle for IRI to latch onto the Republican party because it’s closest to his form of fascism. But Nazi Fascism is a dead ideology - you’re arguing with a guy so filled with hatred that he’ll say anything to get a rise out of anyone. Giving a guy like that any forum (by way of responding to his rants) is pointless. Nobody who frequents this site, or for that matter can start a computer, would see him as anything other that a lying partisan hack at best- and usually he shows his true racist colors by the end of each thread. He’s not appealing to anyone here except for a couple neo-nazi friends like Might A-hole and a few others who have the same agenda, and debating a Nazi doesn’t futher the progressive cause in any way. Chances are he’s even been kicked off conservative sites for being overtly anti-semetic, racist, and bigoted to everyone who isn’t a WASP male (not to say that probably doesn’t appeal to some of them).
I definitely see your point, and to IRI’s credit he leaves out the Nazi jargon to try to present a “reasonable” argument at times to the uninitiated. But TP regulars spend a lot of time debunking his off-topic lies, I just don’t see why we would continue to give him any legitimacy in this Forum- the standard response should be, “IRI, you’re a self-admitted Nazi and you’re lying again” and leave it at that. He’ll get bored and go back to masturbating to Abu Graib pictures.
November 29th, 2005 at 3:28 pm#65 -Middle Aged Artillery Veteran — November 29, 2005 @ 1:37 pm
Welcome to TP-
November 29th, 2005 at 3:40 pmyeah, I-Right-I is a well-documented Chickenhawk with a serious phobia towards fighting, truth, and minorities. He’s a self-admitted Nazi whose only enjoyment is the tapping of his keyboard. Many have encouraged him to enlist, but he just doesn’t have the stones to fight the war, just to promote it anonymously from behind his computer.
LIEberman is an indecisive coward who wouldn’t even know how to run the country if he were president. Sound like Dubya’s kind of boy.
November 29th, 2005 at 3:46 pmAlso, who they hell are you to say that “we’ll leave when we’re god damn good and ready?†IT’S THEIR COUNTRY!! Are you really that egotistical?
“States are not moral agents.†-Chomsky
Comment by Elvis
It’s got nothing to to with ego idiot. It has to do with 5000 dead Americans and 200 billion bucks that we spent helping the Iraqis gain freedom and positioning ourselves to wipe out Islamofascism. They owe us, they know it and we won’t let them forget it. What do you think this is, a damned charity ventrure?
November 29th, 2005 at 4:15 pmWelcome to TP-
yeah, I-Right-I is a well-documented Chickenhawk with a serious phobia towards fighting, truth, and minorities. He’s a self-admitted Nazi whose only enjoyment is the tapping of his keyboard. Many have encouraged him to enlist, but he just doesn’t have the stones to fight the war, just to promote it anonymously from behind his computer.
Comment by jparker
It’s easy to hide your cowadice and treason by just saying peace, peace.
November 29th, 2005 at 4:18 pm“It’s easy to hide your cowadice and treason by just saying peace, peace.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I”
It easy easy to hide cowardice and treason by just saying war, war - and letting others who are brave fight for you.
You are a coward, a traitor, and a retarded fool. But I’ve repeatedly demostrated that you retard!
” Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.”
Matthew 5:9
So what does that make you MizzWrong, the son of satan?
November 29th, 2005 at 4:25 pm“It’s got nothing to to with ego idiot. It has to do with 5000 dead Americans and 200 billion bucks that we spent helping the Iraqis gain freedom and positioning ourselves to wipe out Islamofascism.”
MizzWrongQueenOfDelusionalRants
“That news hit the same day as reports that the Iraqi government’s defense minister, Sadoun al-Dulaimi, a Sunni, signed a military cooperation pact with Shiite-governed Iran, to train the and upgrade the Iraqi army.”
“Iran’s supreme leader, long a critic of the United States, praised the U.S.-backed constitutional referendum in Iraq as “blessed” Friday and urged Iraqis to participate December’s parliamentary elections.”
This is the same leader who praised Iraq’s constitution as ‘devinely inspired’.
Now how is iraq going to stop islamic fascism, if it’s one of the islamic fascist states?
You’re such a retarded republican hack, and inept fool!
November 29th, 2005 at 4:28 pmHe’ll get bored and go back to masturbating to Abu Graib pictures.
Comment by jparker
That’s disgusting. By the way, your friends from the “Religion of Peace” just grabbed a few left wing peace pros in Iraq. You can masterbate over the head chopping film that is sure to follow. Loser.
November 29th, 2005 at 4:34 pmRyan Neat - I normally don’t stoop down to engaging folks like you on these comments boards but I’m kind of bored today.
First of all, calling everyone who disagrees with you a “retard” really doesn’t do much to help get your point across. In fact, it sort of makes you sound like an idiot. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt though anyway and assume theres some glimmer of intelligence in there.
Secondly, I’m not a Republican. I’m a voting Democrat who disagrees with the Bush adminstration on many if not most social issues. When it comes to Iraq and other foreign policy however, I am mostly in agreement. The reason is that I have not heard any good alternatives put forth by my own party to deal with these important issues which are threatening us.
Some people, like yourself, have painfully horrendous ideas (like partioning Israel will thwart Islamic extremists), and some try to belittle the threat altogether. This is making me become more and more disillusioned with my own party, which is painful for me because I’m not about to become a Republican.
I classify myself as a Democrat who doesn’t let Bush-hatred blind my common sense. I suggest you take off your blindfold as well and grow up. The world is a complicated place and can only hope that one-dimensional people such as yourself are not in a position of power anytime soon.
November 29th, 2005 at 4:39 pmI-RIGHT-I,
#89, you have got to stop talking about things which you have no clue on, as if it is fact.
Example: “They owe us; they know it and we won’t let them forget it.”
They owe us nothing! We did not say “we will invade your country, kill 100,000 innocent people, remove your leader and install a dysfunctional government, as long as we get to stay and kill more, and be killed.” We did not put a price on this that “they” have to pay.
And if they don’t owe us anything, then there is nothing for them to “know” and there is nothing for them to “forget” in that regard.
By the way, if we paid the price (the 5000 dead americans, the 200 billion dollars), then how did the Iraqi’s “gain” freedom? For the most part, they did nothing on their own, but fight back at us.
Let me ask you a question. If Islamic Extremists exist, then why do they exist? For what purpose? To what end?
“States are not moral agents.” -Chomsky
November 29th, 2005 at 4:44 pm“I normally don’t stoop down to engaging folks like you on these comments boards but I’m kind of bored today.”TimeForChange
Boring people always are bored. I’m never bored, but then again, I’m not a partisan retarded republican hack like you are… Read something other than a republican talking point site, get and education, and maybe your self inflicted boredom will subside.
Ignorance is bliss, and republicans are the most blissful people I know.
November 29th, 2005 at 4:47 pmRead something other than a republican talking point site, get and education, and maybe your self inflicted boredom will subside.
How ironic considering THIS is basically a Democratic talking point site. I tried taking your advice already by coming here - and look what I found. Lunacy.
November 29th, 2005 at 4:52 pm“Some people, like yourself, have painfully horrendous ideas (like partioning Israel will thwart Islamic extremists), and some try to belittle the threat altogether. This is making me become more and more disillusioned with my own party, which is painful for me because I’m not about to become a Republican.” TimeForChange - AKA the SYMPATHY TROLL
Oh please, you aren’t a democrat. You’re a fool! And based on your response of israel, just another zionist neocon idiot.
Partitioning israel is a UN MANDATE, just like no WMDs in iraq. Our uniform support of the israelis, and lack of support for palestinians creates an image in the arab world that we’re unbalanced and unfair - and justifiably so. Your ‘painfully horrendous’ idea is in fact what Sharon claims to be doing right now you retarded dingbat! This is both a GOOD idea, and a necessary step for peace int he middle east. The israelis need a homeland, but so do the palestinians.
“I classify myself as a Democrat who doesn’t let Bush-hatred blind my common sense. I suggest you take off your blindfold as well and grow up. The world is a complicated place and can only hope that one-dimensional people such as yourself are not in a position of power anytime soon. ”
Oh please, you have such zionist blinders that you’re an utter fool. The fact is you are completely unbalanced, and your ‘claim’ at being upset at the democrats is standard subtrefuge from sympathy trolls. You’re just another hack who’s spouting stupid talking points.
And you didn’t respond to the rest of my VERY GOOD ideas, so clearly you are a troll, and a very stupid, and a very inept one just like the rest of the republican hacks. You guys have to be the most foolish and uneducated morons to ever try to take control of a country! It’s like watching a karaoke version of political parties - all amateur and completely embarrasing to everyone but the overinflated fool who’s performing!
November 29th, 2005 at 4:53 pm“Read something other than a republican talking point site, get and education, and maybe your self inflicted boredom will subside.
How ironic considering THIS is basically a Democratic talking point site. I tried taking your advice already by coming here - and look what I found. Lunacy.
Comment by TimeForChange”
And you CLAIM to be a democrat? BAHAHAHAHA, you’re such an easy mark you retard.
This is a blog, that cites references, and actually DEBUNKS using logs, facts and details.
Talking points are the crap that you and the other republicans post that are EASILY debunked with minimal effort.
See, the complaint about democrats (rightfully so), is that we don’t speak in soundbites or talking points. We’re too individual, too independent and too much inclined to critical thinking to rely on those tactics. And if you were an ACTUAL democrat, you’d know this. But since you’re a republican, you assume everyone in the world is like you and your hateful, inept talking points brownshirt brigade!
November 29th, 2005 at 4:56 pmOh boy, a new troll.
TimeForChange. Your name and politiucal stance don’t match. We are the ones who want change. Republicans want everything to stay just the way it is, fvcked up.
November 29th, 2005 at 4:56 pmJoe Lieberman is simply pathetic. Does anyone know why he wants to belong to the Democratic Party? I don’t understand it.
November 29th, 2005 at 4:56 pmFrom wikipedia:
“Talking points are small pre-prepared arguments or phrases that political strategists issue to representatives or supporters of a party or administration to be used repeatedly in speeches, talk show appearances and debates. ”
To even find more than two democratic sites that use the same talking points, or the same language is a challenge, and when they do, they do so with links and cross references.
Republicans however plagarize the central hive talking points, and if you do google search, they appear in EXACT LANGUAGE in hundreds and thousands of places.
See, once again, facts overwhelm the lies, and propaganda of republican operatives and fools!
November 29th, 2005 at 4:58 pm#98: I should clarify my statment regarding Israel. I don’t believe partioning it is a horrendous idea. It should and will be done - but it is not a means for ending Islamic extremism. Your other ideas for fighting our enemies are also nonsensical - but why should I waste my precious time typing up detailed rebuttles to you when you’re just going to write back that I’m a retard? You’re not worth it. I have nothing to prove to you. I came here looking for people to have an intelligent discussion with but instead found you.
Go ahead and make ad hominem attacks against me and others here but I won’t stoop to your level. If you want to be taken seriously in the real world I suggest you tone it down.
Take care
November 29th, 2005 at 5:01 pm#100 “Your name and politiucal stance don’t match. We are the ones who want change. ”
TimeForChange refers to change within the Democratic party.
November 29th, 2005 at 5:06 pmThere’s a divide between commitment and withdrawal?
So, in other words, that the Iraqis want to know what kind of withdrawal schedule we are going to have, they don’t want us to be committed in fighting terrorists and insurgents for the remainder of the time?
Did ThinkProgress really find so little to attack Lieberman for in his remarks that they have to pretend there is contradiction when there is none?
That’s funny.
November 29th, 2005 at 5:43 pm“If you want to be taken seriously in the real world I suggest you tone it down.”
No, using the repbulican tactics against them IS working. We will not tone it down. If it wasn’t for Democrats standing up against these bastards, “Duke” Cunningham wouldn’t have been caught read handed, Scooter Libby wouldn’t have been indicted (with more to come), Michael Scanlon wouldn’t have turned on Jack Ambramoff and Tony Blair wouldn’t be under investigation by the House of Commons.
If you don’t like our form of politics, nobodying is making you stay.
November 29th, 2005 at 5:47 pm#106 SpudgeBoy - “Tone it down” was directed towards Ryan Neat for his continuous ad hominem attacks against me and others - not to the democratic party or others here. I think we should be standing up to the republicans - but making the message sound intelligent is key. Not calling everyone who you talk to a retard and brownshirt is a good place to start.
November 29th, 2005 at 5:51 pm“It should and will be done - but it is not a means for ending Islamic extremism. “TimeForChange
You’re an idiot. This is a huge recruiting tool among extremists. You’re absolutely wrong on this, like republicans always are. The problem isn’t really the extremists (they always exist in every culture, just like the whacko republican nazis you represent), it’s that societies protect them out of a feeling desperation.
If we look at northern ireland as a model, as soon as the greivances were responded to, and the irish were given a voice in their own affairs, the terrorism stopped. Your ‘anecdotal’ beliefs about terrorism are not supported by history, or the results of previous actions. And hence the ‘read something’.
My attacks are not ad hominem, but yours against democrats and liberals ARE. Stop being a retarded hypocrite.
November 29th, 2005 at 5:58 pm““Tone it down†was directed towards Ryan Neat for his continuous ad hominem attacks against me and others - not to the democratic party or others here. I think we should be standing up to the republicans - but making the message sound intelligent is key. Not calling everyone who you talk to a retard and brownshirt is a good place to start.
Comment by TimeForChange ”
And yet your ad hominem attacks against democrats started the whole exchange you moronic hypocrite.
I gave you an ENTIRE LIST of concrete suggestions, and what did you do, post a stupid and retarded comment. I call you a retard, because you ACT like one.
November 29th, 2005 at 6:00 pmHow ironic considering THIS is basically a Democratic talking point site. I tried taking your advice already by coming here - and look what I found. Lunacy.
Comment by TimeForChange
This isn’t just a Democratic talking point site, this is probably the one they have the most hopes for. Started by a few of Bill Clinton’s surviving staff and funded by the likes of George Soros this ought to be a first class operation, but then that’s not really possible considering what the Democratic party has turned into.
What you’ve got is the Filthy Left Wing of the Democratic Party calling the shots in the party and showing up here to cheer themselves on. All the smart money and classic liberals now vote Republican. The Republicans ARE the liberal party now in case you haven’t noticed the kinder and gentler expenditure column on the federal books.
What you’ve got here at Think Communist are the dregs (is that even possible?) of Democratic Underground and Indymedia. Enjoy your stay but if you want to discuss ANYTHING including the weather in a calm and rational manner you’d best find a conservative site. They won’t allow the likes of Ryan “FMFB” Neat to even register.
November 29th, 2005 at 6:26 pmIf you don’t like our form of politics, nobodying is making you stay.
Comment by SpudgeBoy
Heh. Still trying to get rid of the voices of reason and sanity aren’t you?
November 29th, 2005 at 6:28 pm“Republicans ARE the liberal party now in case you haven’t noticed the kinder and gentler expenditure column on the federal books.”
Dude, put down the crack pipe.
November 29th, 2005 at 6:29 pmYou are many things I-Right-I, but reasonable, and sane are not amongst them. :)
November 29th, 2005 at 6:30 pmI think we should be standing up to the republicans - but making the message sound intelligent is key. Not calling everyone who you talk to a retard and brownshirt is a good place to start.
Comment by TimeForChange
Not lying, twisting facts and pissing on the flag wouldn’t hurt either.
November 29th, 2005 at 6:30 pmPissing on the flag?
So what is invading a foriegn nation, killing or causing the deaths of 100,000 people, locking up their young men enmasse without right or writ, torturing them, humiliating them, murdering them, and then passing laws to take away civil liberties and governmental controls to facilitate this invasion?
What do you call that?
Sprinkling democracy flowers on it?
November 29th, 2005 at 6:41 pmJoe Lieberman loses touch with reality over Iraq.
Joe Lieberman may boast about his foreign policy expertise all he wants to. But he is completely out of touch with reality and completely stuck in Pollyanna land, suggesting that we need to stay in Iraq indefinitely and that things are going so well
November 29th, 2005 at 6:44 pmAnd BTW, this blog is about Lieberman and his lilly livered self.
Now hear this Joe Liverlillyman, I would not vote for you, if you were handing out 100 dollar bills gift wrapped in Angelina Jolies panties!
Got it schmuck? You, Hillary, Tom Daschle, your what is wrong with the Democratic party, and why I won’t join it. So you might as well just join the republicans, cause I can’t stand you anymore than I can stand Dubya. Maybe even more.
Because Joe Lillyliverman, you should know better.
November 29th, 2005 at 6:44 pm“Not lying, twisting facts and pissing on the flag wouldn’t hurt either.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I”
No progressives have resorted to your fascist tactics. What you describe is standard NeoCon and Opus Dei whacko strategies you exercise… Heck, you’re the hypocrite that praised bush for lying about islam - clearly you’re not a sane, rational or even competent human being.
November 29th, 2005 at 6:45 pmNo progressives have resorted to your fascist tactics.
Comment by Comrade Ryan “our communism will work!” Neat
That’s funny stuff. I love it when you ratbastardcommiemofos refer to yourselves as progressives as if it’s still a secret code name for fellow travelers.
November 29th, 2005 at 7:15 pmYep, traveler’s on the information super highway.
November 29th, 2005 at 7:19 pmWho wants communism? I’m a successful capitalist, and yet you are part of the prolitariat ;)
How ironic is that you moron?
November 29th, 2005 at 7:25 pmSpudge,
It’s ironic how REAL fascists are afraid of phantom communism. It’s such a humorous delusion even if it is a completely psychotic one…
November 29th, 2005 at 7:26 pmTP says,
“The Iraqi leaders, however, have said publicly that they want the United States to set a firm timetable for withdrawal immediately.”
That’s a lie. This is what was reported from the statement,
The conference was attended by Iraqi President Jalal Talabani and Iraqi
Shiite and Kurdish lawmakers, as well as leading Sunni politicians.
The statement recognized that goal, but did not lay down a specific time,
reflecting instead the government’s stance that Iraqi security forces must
be built up first.
On Monday, Iraqi Interior Minister Bayan Jabr suggested U.S.-led forces
should be able to leave Iraq by the end of next year, saying the one-year
extension of the mandate for the multinational force in Iraq by the U.N.
Security Council this month could be the last.
“By the middle of next year we will be 75 percent done in building our
November 29th, 2005 at 7:26 pmforces and by the end of next year it will be fully ready.”
FingerBang,
You’re such an idiot.
From CNN
“The leaders agreed on “calling for the withdrawal of foreign troops according to a timetable, through putting in place an immediate national program to rebuild the armed forces … control the borders and the security situation” and end terror attacks.“
November 29th, 2005 at 8:31 pmOf all the candidates in 2004, the only one worse than Lieberman was Bush.
November 29th, 2005 at 8:54 pmAint that the truth Marie.
I-WRONG-I, I like the term “Progressive”. It indicates that we are NOT locked into a firm methodology or dogma, and it describes the constant growth we as a people, and our government needs to endure in order to survive.
We admit, and LEARN from our mistakes, and that works for me.
What, you think the term, RIGHT matches you guys?
November 29th, 2005 at 9:06 pmWorfeus,
I’ll give a list of republican words that describe their values nicely.
Retarded
Zealous
Rigid
Deaf
Dumb
Deceitful
Greedy
Selfish
Psychotic
Stupid
ClosedMinded (ok 2 words)
Opinionated
Lazy
Ignorant
Arrogant
Inept
Incompetent
Incapable
Foolish
That’s a good start, but those are all accurate descriptions of republicans…
November 29th, 2005 at 9:21 pmLieberman is a ass. He is a “DINO” Democrat In Name Only. I hope Conneticut kicks him out of office and votes in a true Liberal Democrat.
November 29th, 2005 at 9:40 pmI predict, in 2000 and 6,
That we will see a lot of new faces on the Democratic ballots.
If we don’t, it’s gonna be another banner year for the Republicans.
November 29th, 2005 at 9:53 pmWow Ryan, long list.
I guess it would be safe to say, you don’t think to much of the Repubs?
November 29th, 2005 at 9:55 pmNice list Ryan Neat. Did you make that all by yourself? For your next assignment, I would like you to make a list of all the virtues of the Democratic party. I know you will have to think real hard on this one and be creative, but I think you can do it.
November 29th, 2005 at 10:22 pmOh boy, a new troll.
November 29th, 2005 at 10:29 pmWow, ryan. Maybe you can turn your list into a song and “change the world”.
November 30th, 2005 at 12:22 amYou have to love the delusionary behavior exhibited here. Talking about Joe Lieberman losing touch with reality - say, how many of you have actually been to Iraq? None?
The “reality-based” community strikes again!
November 30th, 2005 at 12:30 amDVDA,
Maybe you can kiss my a$$ and improve your breath.
November 30th, 2005 at 12:42 amSeixon,
Frankly I’m not fond of the delusional behavior you and the rest of the conservative retards consistently exhibit. You’re nothing more than ignorant, lying hacks.
SEVERAL of the posters who’ve posted recently served in iraq - can you say the same you whacko?
November 30th, 2005 at 12:43 amHow many soros leftoid robots have actually read the linked article? None. It reports,
“The statement recognized that goal, but did not lay down a specific time,reflecting instead the government’s stance that Iraqi security forces must
November 30th, 2005 at 12:44 ambe built up first.”
Soros is a libertarian