Bush on Immigration: Wherever The Political Winds Blow
By on Nov 29th, 2005 at 3:06 pm
Bush on Immigration: Wherever The Political Winds Blow
In an attempt to regain the support of his right-wing base, Bush delivered a speech on immigration yesterday described as a “rhetorical pound of flesh.†Last year, Bush’s support was more secure, and his rhetoric was more moderate. Here’s a look at how Bush’s approach and rhetoric on immigration has changed with the political winds:
| January 7, 2004 | November 28, 2005 |
| Audience: “Bush is already giving up some symbolic territory. When he announced his guest-worker plan in 2004, he did so before an audience of 200 Latinos.” [Time, 11/27/05] | Audience: His “audience included border patrol agents and military troops. He was flanked by two black Customs and Border Protection helicopters and giant green and yellow signs that said ‘Protecting America’s Borders.’” [Washington Post, 11/28/05] |
| Nature of America: “By tradition and conviction, our country is a welcoming society.” [White House, 1/7/04] | Nature of America: “The American people should not have to choose between a welcoming society and a lawful society. We can have both at the same time.” [White House, 11/28/05] |
| Strategy: “Reform must begin by confronting a basic fact of life and economics: some of the jobs being generated in America’s growing economy are jobs American citizens are not filling.” [White House, 1/7/04] | Strategy: “Our strategy for comprehensive immigration reforms begins by securing the border.” [White House, 11/28/05] |
| Solution: “If an American employer is offering a job that American citizens are not willing to take, we ought to welcome into our country a person who will fill that job.” [White House, 1/7/04] | Solution: “The first part of the plan is to promptly return every illegal entrant we catch at the border, with no exceptions.” [White House, 11/28/05] |
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“I was for immigration, before I was against it…” bush 2005
November 29th, 2005 at 3:09 pmDaddy, whats a flip flop? GW bush dear.
November 29th, 2005 at 3:16 pmThat’s a sweet breakdown. Thanks Amanda.
But I don’t think this shift makes it irrefutable that Bush is captive to his base.
He may be securing his base so that he can try to get something done in D.C. (maybe drawdown of troops from Iraq?) and stave off the lame-duck flu. Don’t forget, we’ve got 3 more years of this guy.
November 29th, 2005 at 3:17 pmDubya must be some sort of dipshit hypocrite.
Bush has either got to be using the Bush-loving media to try to push up his ratings by concentrating from Iraq, Katrina, Plame, etc.
Bush might also trying to decieve the American public while secretly ass licking up to the illegal aliens who
November 29th, 2005 at 3:25 pmare willing to take any American jobs at lower pay just to satisfy the corporations who are anti-union, and anti-American.
Flip-Flop-Flip-Flop-Flip-Flop-Flip-Flop-Flip-Flop-Flip-Flop-Flip-Flop-Flip-Flop-Flip-
November 29th, 2005 at 3:34 pm#5
Exactly.
November 29th, 2005 at 3:35 pmLike I said before in another thread here, Bush is only offering lip-service to the idea that we need to crackdown on the illegal alien issue. Some token moves will be made, if that much, but quitely the amnesty program will continue to be moved forward.
I do think we should crack down on illegal immigration… and also streamline and open up legal immigration.
Later,
November 29th, 2005 at 3:40 pmWell, as a Californian who has to deal with illegal immigration on a daily basis, I believe this melting pot is full.
BTW, Bush willmove forward with the amnesty program to get the republican vote now that Duke got busted.
November 29th, 2005 at 3:51 pmBusiness owners rationalize hiring illegals because they do undesireable jobs. That is a fallacy.
November 29th, 2005 at 3:56 pmEvery single fast food restraunt is filled with illegal immigrants here in Califronia.
Working at a fast food restraunt is not picking fruit in a field.
Working at a fast food restraunt is usually the first job a teenager gets.
The illegal immigrants don’t just take the crappy jobs. That is a lie. They will take any job from any company that will higher them. Since they companies don’t like paying diddly, illegals take the jobs.
November 29th, 2005 at 4:03 pmBusiness owners rationalize hiring illegals because they do undesireable jobs. That is a fallacy.
Comment by Average TV Viewer — November 29, 2005 @ 3:56 pm
Actually, is not as much a fallacy as it is a self-fulfilled prophecy: Of course illegal immigrants take the undesirable jobs no citizen wants to take.
How would you like to work for little pay, no health benefits, no overtime compensation, no legal recourse to solve disputes, poor working conditions, and deal with abusive, harasing employers on your own?
Those are the reasons why employers in the produce, meat, packing, retail industries are “addicted” to illegal workers. Employers hire and fire at will, nobody complains, and no pesky uinions to deal with.
November 29th, 2005 at 4:08 pmGregor,
Illegal immigrants take all jobs, not just the undesirable ones. In California it is a frickin’ epidemic. They are everywhere and make life a real pain. They don’t understand anything you say and can’t communicate with those they are taking oreders for or serving. It is very annoying.
November 29th, 2005 at 4:11 pmThere are a lot of illegals here in AZ, and I for one, am not going out into the desert in mid-July (when it’s 110 plus) to pick oranges or cust someone else’s grass…I know they take nearly any job they can get, I see it everywhere I go, but this can be corked by making those coming to the US to work legal – we can not close the border
This may also solve some of the issues in terms of medical and emergency coverage that need to be addressed beyond IDing everyone that needs help
As far as I see it, no citizen of this country can claim that it is full, I’m sure the Native Americans felt the same way when Europe pulled up on their shores…I agree with number #7, stop illegal immigrants and make it easier for legal immigration…unfortunately this will undermind corporate america’s profits, so I don’t see it going anywhere until this country starts focusing on what’s best for the citizens, not its companies
& spudge, what you are talking about is making English a national language (which it should be!)
November 29th, 2005 at 4:14 pm#13
English is the national language. It was almost German, bu that was voted down.
November 29th, 2005 at 4:18 pmSpudge,
You got me wrong: Those jobs are undesirable because of the conditions under which those illegal immigrants have to work, not because the task itself in undesirable.
Employers will give the jobs to the “lowest bidder”. In this case, whoever generates less expenses to them.
Also, if you thought illegal immigrants are all poor and illiterate, you’d be wrong:
Embracing Illegals
November 29th, 2005 at 4:21 pmhttp://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_29/b3943001_mz001.htm
I was under the impression that we refused to adapt a national language, which is why we provide so many multi-lingual documents
November 29th, 2005 at 4:21 pmFLIP-FLOPPER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
November 29th, 2005 at 4:32 pmGregor,
I knew where you were coming from. Also, I don’t think they are illiterate. They just speak different languages. As far as broke goes, no way. The illegals around here live 12 people in one house. This causes their rent and everything to go down. Around here, the illegals drive BMWs and wear designer clothes. They aren’t broke or illiterate. That is just not true.
Chris,
The only reason for all the multi lingual documents is because everybody wants to be some damn politically correct these days.
November 29th, 2005 at 4:32 pmSpudge,
I got curious about the German almost becoming the national language in the US, and found this on the web:
“The story is false. Matter of fact, the US at present does not have an ‘official’ language in the sense of a language declared by law(…)”
http://tafkac.org/language/german_us_official_lang.html
“It is likely that the myth of German as the official language of the US first arose in the 1930s(…)”
http://german.about.com/library/weekly/aa010820a.htm
Historical trivia, I guess…
November 29th, 2005 at 4:35 pmHere in CA, you just don’t know who is and who isn’t illegal. Generally (always the downful of complete truth) the ones who don’t have citizenship, go home to see their family in Mexico more frequently. You’d think it was the other way around, huh?
Just go to any night crew/janitorial/maintanence Walmart, illegals, construction crews – yea illegals.
I’m not blaming the people. If I were to point the finger anywhere, it would be at the bosses who know DAMN WELL that they are hiring an illegal. Check a Drivers License, SSI card and ask a couple of questions and you know who is real and who isn’t. The point is that it is buisness who want them here because they don’t want to pay the legals wage. They want to be able to pay the illegals wage and have pseudo plausible deniability if they need it.
And don’t get me wrong. I do want help for the farmers. Lord knows locals, even of anglo or C American decent won’t take the jobs, so, what are you gonna do?
Money. Why is it always about money?
November 29th, 2005 at 4:37 pmGregor,
Very intersting. I stand corrected.
But, now I have a new mission in life: Getting a national language put in place.
November 29th, 2005 at 4:41 pmI’m with you Spudge, I feel an official language would do a lot to help unite our country and go a long way in bringing together groups that would normally be secluded
November 29th, 2005 at 4:47 pm“They don’t understand anything you say and can’t communicate with those they are taking oreders for or serving.”
lol
Please stop “Truthboating” the President.
November 29th, 2005 at 4:48 pmQuestion: Are we all Native Americans here?
November 29th, 2005 at 4:49 pmIf I were to point the finger anywhere, it would be at the bosses who know DAMN WELL that they are hiring an illegal. Check a Drivers License, SSI card and ask a couple of questions and you know who is real and who isn’t.
Comment by kindness — November 29, 2005 @ 4:37 pm
But of course they know -they know it very well.
When they don’t have an SSN, it is obvious they are in the US illegaly.
When they have one, the employers must know it’s fake or “borrowed” from someone else. I mean, someone, at some point, has to run those numbers against a database to check they’re real, and to deduct the federal tax, the state tax, etc.
Allowing businesses to hire illegal workers is unfair for all legal immigrants who had to play by the book, unfair for citizens who are “priced out” of jobs, bad for the illegal workers who are not covered by the law against abusive employers, and bad for the country too -laws are being mocked, and the economy is not really benefiting from the artificially low prices we see at the stores.
November 29th, 2005 at 4:54 pmThe reason the radical right feels threatened is because all of these immigrant brown people vote predominantly Democrat. Bush is caught between buisness conservatives and the Christian Coalition/isolationist Conservatives. The right wing is falling appart at the seems and I’m lovin it.
November 29th, 2005 at 5:17 pm“The reason the radical right feels threatened is because all of these immigrant brown people vote predominantly Democrat.”
Yep.
November 29th, 2005 at 5:30 pm“Well, as a Californian who has to deal with illegal immigration on a daily basis, I believe this melting pot is full.”
Boohoo for you. Are they collecting the bottles and cans that you rely on for your income?
What we have too much in California is not immigrants — it’s RACISTS like you lot.
Just admit it — quit lying like cowards. Racists Out of Los Angeles.
The INS doesn’t serve equally, and until they do, this is blaming the victims. I have two friends who are here legally but for whom the INS won’t finalize their papers, apparently because there are too many rich people who get preference. Ten years is a long time to wait for papers, but if you come in as a cherished rightwing thug, you get papers in two weeks. Making the nation safe for terrorists is not making our country safer.
As for “no exceptions,” what about POSADA CARILLES, a Venezuelan national who has CONFESSED TO BLOWING UP A CIVILIAN AIRLINER?
Why is Baby Bush HARBORING AN ADMITTED TERRORIST in Texas?
November 29th, 2005 at 6:13 pmWhat we have too much in California is not immigrants — it’s RACISTS like you lot.
Just admit it — quit lying like cowards. Racists Out of Los Angeles.
Comment by Paul in LA — November 29, 2005 @ 6:13 pm
Who are you talking to?
November 29th, 2005 at 6:27 pmSounds like it’s time to update the “Bush Top 10 Flip-Flop List.”
November 29th, 2005 at 6:38 pmPaul in LA,
Who are you saying is racist, me? As a Californian, most of my friends are of a different color. I don’t come from the white part of town. Most of the people I work with are Asian or Hispanic. And I myself am part Cherokee.
November 29th, 2005 at 6:43 pmFinally Bush gets it. This is an issue that has the Dems scared witless. They have no national immigration policy except for open borders – and they know that won’t sell as a campaign issue.
Win the war
November 29th, 2005 at 7:04 pmConfirm the judges
Keep taxes low
Control the borders
More flip flops. Someone mail them to add these:
http://www.americanprogressaction.org/site/pp.asp?c=klLWJcP7H&b=118263
Whenever everyone points to Kerry being a flip flopper just direct them to that URL.
November 29th, 2005 at 7:07 pm“In an attempt to regain the support of his right-wing base, Bush delivered a speech on immigration yesterday described as a “rhetorical pound of flesh.†Last year, Bush’s support was more secure, and his rhetoric was more moderate. Here’s a look at how Bush’s approach and rhetoric on immigration has changed with the political winds:”
He got tired of reading all my hate mail on the subject. Mine and about 80% of the country’s.
November 29th, 2005 at 7:21 pmHow would you like to work for little pay, no health benefits, no overtime compensation, no legal recourse to solve disputes, poor working conditions, and deal with abusive, harasing employers on your own?
Comment by Senoir Gregor
How would you like to live in a box and go hungry? Why don’t you rich spics take care of your own anyway?
November 29th, 2005 at 7:23 pmPaul in LA,
Who are you saying is racist, me? As a Californian, most of my friends are of a different color. I don’t come from the white part of town. Most of the people I work with are Asian or Hispanic. And I myself am part Cherokee.
Comment by SpudgeBoy
How do you like it loser? Complain just a little and you’re a racist. Oh sure…all your friends are of color and you’re part Indian….racist slug. You’re probably a homophobe too because you don’t want you little boy going out into the woods with “gay” scout masters. This is funny stuff.
November 29th, 2005 at 7:26 pmDude, you are a freak.
You are the most racist person I have ever known and I know a lot of people. Like I said they are all different color, so I do take offense.
But, coming from you. I don’t care one bit. You are a freak.
November 29th, 2005 at 7:29 pmThe reason the radical right feels threatened is because all of these immigrant brown people vote predominantly Democrat. Bush is caught between buisness conservatives and the Christian Coalition/isolationist Conservatives. The right wing is falling appart at the seems and I’m lovin it.
Comment by Matthew J. Price
Silly me. I thought illegals didn’t get to vote.
November 29th, 2005 at 7:30 pmDude, you are a freak.
You are the most racist person I have ever known and I know a lot of people. Like I said they are all different color, so I do take offense.
But, coming from you. I don’t care one bit. You are a freak.
Comment by SpudgeBoy
Dude? What are you ten? You take offense? That’s funny.
November 29th, 2005 at 7:31 pmHow would you like to live in a box and go hungry? Why don’t you rich spics take care of your own anyway?
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — November 29, 2005 @ 7:23 pm
Is there any way you will one day post a comment that does not use a racial slur, or otherwise put an ethnic group down?
November 29th, 2005 at 7:32 pmAnd don’t get me wrong. I do want help for the farmers. Lord knows locals, even of anglo or C American decent won’t take the jobs, so, what are you gonna do?
Money. Why is it always about money?
Comment by kindness
Put those fat ass Negro women on welfare out there picking berries. That’s what you do.
November 29th, 2005 at 7:33 pmMoney. Why is it always about money?
Comment by kindness
Because somebody has to pay for your food stamps, that’s why.
November 29th, 2005 at 7:34 pm“Dude? What are you ten? You take offense? That’s funny.”
I take offense because I am not a rascist you fvcking dumbass.
November 29th, 2005 at 7:34 pm“Dude? What are you ten? You take offense? That’s funny.â€
I take offense because I am not a rascist you fvcking dumbass.
Comment by SpudgeBoy
Neither am I. I just play one on TV.
November 29th, 2005 at 7:38 pmPut those fat ass Negro women on welfare out there picking berries. That’s what you do.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — November 29, 2005 @ 7:33 pm
Everything you say sounds like the rantings of a living atavism.
All your comments on non-WASPS are so anachronic is not even funny.
Do you enjoy gratuitously offending people?
November 29th, 2005 at 7:41 pmIs there any way you will one day post a comment that does not use a racial slur, or otherwise put an ethnic group down?
Comment by Gregor Samsa
I do it all the time. I guess you missed them. But lets face it. Racial groups demand to be treated differently from every one else and so…I give them what they want…attention for what they are, not who they are. It works for me. Disband NAACP, LULAC, CAIR, ADL and all the rest and I’ll stop it. Until then if you’re one of the boys in the club and want to be hyphenated…so be it.
November 29th, 2005 at 7:44 pmAll your comments on non-WASPS are so anachronic is not even funny.
Do you enjoy gratuitously offending people?
Comment by Gregor Samsa
You don’t even want to get me going on the WASPS I don’t like. That’s when I get really nasty.
November 29th, 2005 at 7:47 pm“Neither am I. I just play one on TV.”
I don’t even joke about it.
November 29th, 2005 at 7:49 pmSubmitted for your consideration:
“Another cause of revolution is difference of races which do not at once acquire a common spirit. A state is not the growth of a day. Hence the reception of strangers, in colonies either at time of their foundation or afterwards has generally produced revolution.” (Aristotle THE POLITICS, book V)
http://classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/politics.5.five.html
November 29th, 2005 at 7:53 pmSo who are you saying would start a revolution? The illegal immigrants?
November 29th, 2005 at 7:59 pmTechnically I don’t think it would be a revolution if they are illegal immigrants. It would be considered the US being attacked by Mexico, or whatever country the illegal immigrants are from.
November 29th, 2005 at 8:01 pmSpudge,
I-RIGHT-I is using the words written over 2000 years ago (albeit by a very bright philosopher) to justify his racist view.
Too bad Aristotle died two millenia ago.
His views on race and racial harmony (or lack thereof) are grossly obsolete.
November 29th, 2005 at 8:03 pm#49 Very GOOD IRI!!!
YAY! man, I thought no one read that stuff anymore!
Now is that a Fact what Plato Wrote, or Was it Hypothesis, or was it written as Dialogue? and HOW can that be connected with our Modern World?
Now Read Further, and you will see that many Words, AER AEI, PHOR, GOD HEAD, GAIA, etc etc etc..Sumerian et al hebrew Come from essentially the same people, just different eras, yet the Words essentially describe the Same thing.
In Hebrew the study of those words to GOD, is Gematria.
The Letter T IRI
is that a T or an Imbalanced Cross?
If Man were not an Imbalanced energy, he would not exist, the sleep of death, can you accept this?
Hence the Cross of Christ.
NOW in Platos words what is Aei pei defined as being?
Down the Rabbit hole WE GO!!! Wwallace your welcome to join! –Aj
November 29th, 2005 at 8:08 pm“I do it all the time. I guess you missed them. But lets face it. Racial groups demand to be treated differently from every one else and so…I give them what they want…attention for what they are, not who they are. It works for me. Disband NAACP, LULAC, CAIR, ADL and all the rest and I’ll stop it. Until then if you’re one of the boys in the club and want to be hyphenated…so be it.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I ”
Yeah, demanding equal access to opportunities and access that whites simply receive without effort does force them to be treated ‘differently’. That difference is that you have to pay attention to the discrimination, instead of blindly implementing it – which is what you’re permitted to do with a whites only policy.
MizzWrong doesn’t like it when people make her ‘aware’ or ‘accountable’ for her stupidity and bigotry. That’s why she comes here to try to silence the dissenting and educating voices.
It’s called ‘paranoid personality disorder’, and it often expresses itself in a compulsive need to seek out and destroy dissenting voices. It’s a common problem among the severely mentally ill that populate the ranks of the NeoCons and reiching religious types of all demoninations.
If you ever thought those folks seemed a little ‘crazy’, it’s because they are.
November 29th, 2005 at 8:10 pmI directed IRI there Spudge, Now you’ll see why. LOL
Basically the Neo-Cons used this Same basic Concept, thru Allan Bloom, and Leo Strauss, for keeping the public in the dark aka Media Echo Chamber and Propaganda. Modern as we are alot of Think Tanks still use this as a guide to their Political philosophy.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Heres a Quote from Allan Bloom, yet another Student of Strauss. This one fits very well within the “Reality-Based” synthesis of the Neo-Cons.
“The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities, that makes it seem inconceivable that other ways are viable, that removes the sense that there is an outside.”
(Allan Bloom;Book;Closing of the American Mind)
Crazy Are I?
November 29th, 2005 at 8:16 pmMuuuhahahaa -Aj
Set them up and KNOCK them down. LOL
November 29th, 2005 at 8:19 pm““The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities, that makes it seem inconceivable that other ways are viable, that removes the sense that there is an outside.—
That describe I-RIGHT-I to a T.
November 29th, 2005 at 8:19 pmYeh he didnt even see that one comin! -Aj
November 29th, 2005 at 8:21 pmSpudge,
Right On!
That’s why they’re so desperate to control the media and information. Hitler burned books, since americans by and far don’t read them, republicans merely burn media outlets and form multi-national corporate talking point outlets that work to dumb down and deceive people.
Ignorance, hatred and lies are the tool of tyranny, and that pretty much sums up republican values.
November 29th, 2005 at 8:34 pmHey, Ryan,
Before I leave, have you read David Brock’s “The Republican Noise Machine”? (As you can tell, I recommend it to everyone.) Good history lessons there for those of us who like to keep an eye on lying conservatives in the media.
Wish I could stick around for a reply, but I have to hit the road. Good luck with the trolls. (Aw, hell, you do just fine against them. I enjoy reading your posts. And you don’t write silly song parodies like I sometimes do.)
November 29th, 2005 at 8:43 pm“I do it all the time. I guess you missed them. But lets face it. Racial groups demand to be treated differently from every one else and so…I give them what they want…attention for what they are, not who they are. It works for me. Disband NAACP, LULAC, CAIR, ADL and all the rest and I’ll stop it. Until then if you’re one of the boys in the club and want to be hyphenated…so be it.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I â€
Oh I read the posts, Just didnt think any would read Plato.
Many posts are just silly and argumentative discouraging rational debate, it does not mean that I do not read the replies, yet some days I do divulge in the goofiness, usually just to get a Laugh or Anger from a Trollip.
~~~~~~~~~~~
Democritus IRI.
what is the Least divisble Particle?
A-Toms?
What are you truly made of IRI?
Does your good book say that GOD created the Heavens, the and Earth and brought Light?
So if he created all that we see, then did he, or did he not also create all the living beings on this Planet? Or Universe?
There are only 6 degrees of separation. Whether you like it or not, you are related to those you dislike.
So what Color\Race is this Poster IRI?
November 29th, 2005 at 9:35 pmFunny thing Think Progress doesn’t understand, because the ignorance level is so high here, is that Democrats have to say the same stuff Bush is saying… and most of them haven’t even mentioned amnesty like Bush has (amnesty by the way is a progressive and liberal idea, not hateful or bigotted some might want to think).
Why? Because Americans don’t like lawbreakers and they don’t really hate Mexicans or immigrants, and want people to do certain jobs and Mexicans and others do them. This means the government has to talk tough about the law, but be kind to those who work for American businesses.
Whatever though. Think Progess is about hate, not love and doesn’t want to understand.
Ignorance is bliss isn’t Think Progress?
November 29th, 2005 at 10:04 pm“Whatever though. Think Progess is about hate, not love and doesn’t want to understand.”
Hurry run then, get away before you are consumed by the hate and becaome a sith lord.
November 29th, 2005 at 10:09 pmLyle,
The retarded (eg. you) shouldn’t lecture others on ignorance. If republican businesses and individuals would stop hiring illegals to avoid paying payroll taxes and health insurance, then this problem wouldn’t be one at all. You accuse others of ‘ignorance’, but that’s only because it so aptly describes yourself. It’s called ‘projection’.
November 29th, 2005 at 10:22 pmHarriet must have been distracted..
November 29th, 2005 at 11:01 pmGeez, get a clue, C&L. You repeatedly used the word “Strategy” in the charts. As Bush would inform you, the word is spelled “Strategery.”
November 29th, 2005 at 11:27 pmIgnorance is bliss isn’t Think Progress?
Comment by Lyle — November 29, 2005 @ 10:04 pm
Your problem is that you refuse to understand what this thread is about, namely, the change in Bush’s rhetoric and his withdrawal from a more tolerant stance that had an innovative way to deal with illegal immigration to a far less friendly one that panders to his base.
Bush might have mentioned amnesty in the past, but that is not what he is advocating anymore.
By the way, did you read the article in Time magazine?
Finally, you say Americans don’t hate Mexicans. You might want to check with your fellow conservative I-RIGHT-I because he said:
Why don’t you rich spics take care of your own anyway?
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — November 29, 2005 @ 7:23 pm
Ah, nothing like a gold ole fashioned racial slur to make Mexicans feel welcome…
November 29th, 2005 at 11:31 pmSo, Amanda, why do “liberals” end up Bush and his push for massive illegal immigration and all its associated abuses and the lowering of American wages that Bush and his supporters want?
Let’s look at the benefits from opposing illegal immigration:
- better wages for low-wage Americans, most of whom are Dems
- no more labor abuses such as described
- no more illegal profits for corrupt corporations and the Mexican oligarchy
- reform in Mexico
- being able to make Bush look corrupt and undercutting his attempts to appear to be the “homeland security president”
- and: winning elections
Obviously, most Dem leaders aren’t able to think things through.
November 30th, 2005 at 12:17 amTLB,
Thanks for demostrating that to a republican everything is a talking point and an excuse to be politically exploitative. You are a fool.
November 30th, 2005 at 1:01 amBush’s Afterthought on Immigration
 Uh, knock… knock. Sounds like a flip-flop, don’t cha think, uh huh? -Editor
November 30th, 2005 at 1:59 amYea, well this is one area that progressives, democrats & liberals do well saying what they think, and then stepping aside to watch the republicans tear themselves to shreds.
By the reichtwingnuts comments here, one would think that it is the progressives that have the biggest beef with illegal immigration. We certainly don’t like it, but we prefer to focus responsibility on those who hire illegals to exploit them for a cheap source of labor. Which in turn reduces wages for ALL of us here legally.
But I see that turning things on their heads and claiming moral certaintude/superiority/goodness is #1 in the republican playbook. Up is down. Good is bad. Money makes right (go ask Duke Cunningham). Jesus loves republicans.
November 30th, 2005 at 10:20 amAh, nothing like a gold ole fashioned racial slur to make Mexicans feel welcome…
Comment by Gregor Samsa
Yeppers…it’s fun isn’t it? Of course Spic can refer to just about any Latin. If you want to get right on top of the Mexicans though you can use Taco Bender, Beaner, Wet Back, Speedy Gonzales, Frito Bandito and I’m sure there’s even more I’m not familiar with. But what the hey, why make Mexicans feel all that welcome? Most of them got here illegally in the first place didn’t they?
On the other hand this country is blessed to have Mexican folk. Much better than Canadians or Africans for example. Most of them are almost Christian, they work hard, are friendly, honest and life would not be worth living without Mexican food.
The black eyed beauties that hail from Mexico are a sight to behold (until that fat Mexican butt kicks in at about 24)and the lilt of a Spanish maid speaking sweet nothings that you can almost understand out in the parking lot of a Texas cantina are the stuff dreams are made of.
Yep, I’m a racist, I appreciate the differences and want them to continue. It’s not my fault that so far no one seems to have come up with some funny derogatory about Dutchmen but you are welcome to give it a shot.
November 30th, 2005 at 10:38 am“- better wages for low-wage Americans, most of whom are Dems”
Well, if they weren’t before, Katrina made sure they are Dems now. They also see all the cuts made to social programs. Although you guys tried to place the blame for Katrina on local Democratic officials, nobody except for people that are politcally active have any clue who any of them are. All they know is that the Republican President of the United States let down his people.
November 30th, 2005 at 10:54 am“Of course Spic can refer to just about any Latin. If you want to get right on top of the Mexicans though you can use Taco Bender, Beaner, Wet Back, Speedy Gonzales, Frito Bandito and I’m sure there’s even more I’m not familiar with. But what the hey, why make Mexicans feel all that welcome? Most of them got here illegally in the first place didn’t they?”
OMFG you are a racist bastard.
Maybe you don’t know anything about history, which wouldn’t surprise me, but the Mexicans were here before us.
No, most of them did not get here illegaly. That shows what an uneducated jackoff you are.
November 30th, 2005 at 10:56 amWell, if they weren’t before, Katrina made sure they are Dems now
Comment by Dummy Boy
Want to bet? George made sure they got the rebuilding jobs and made more money than they ever dreamed. He screwed the unions big time in the process too. I see little Mexican kids all over Houston wearing I Love George Bush T-shirts. Not only that but the Pope told them that if they vote for Democrats who are homosexual lovers, baby killers and Christian haters they would all go to hell. Not one Mexican voted for John Kerry last election. That’s what I heard.
November 30th, 2005 at 11:52 amIt’s “illegal” immigration Armando.
And I’m for stopping it and securing our borders.
What’s wrong with that?
November 30th, 2005 at 12:03 pmYep, I’m a racist, I appreciate the differences and want them to continue.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — November 30, 2005 @ 10:38 am
It is one thing to notice and/or appreciate the differences between the different races, and another entirely different to use derogatory language when talking about them, as you do.
A step further is to associate moral, ethical and intellectual capacities to people because of the colour of their skin or the shapes of their eyes -like you routinely do.
To appreciate the differences is not racist. To think that the colour of your skin makes you somehow morally, intellectually superior is racist.
And no, most Mexicans did not get here illegally.
November 30th, 2005 at 12:36 pmIt’s “illegal†immigration Armando.
And I’m for stopping it and securing our borders.
What’s wrong with that?
Comment by baby-puppy
That’s an easy one. Around here that’s considered racist. Everything is racist.
November 30th, 2005 at 12:39 pmtoo much time on your hands iree. Get a job dude. Get your lazy ass off unemployment or welfare or cut off your parents umbilical cord. Time to grow up.
November 30th, 2005 at 2:14 pmTime to grow up.
Comment by kindness
Idonwanna
November 30th, 2005 at 2:41 pmMizzWrong,
No, only YOU AND YOUR FELLOW UNRELIGIOUS FASCISTS are racist.
November 30th, 2005 at 3:14 pmPromoting bigotry is racism.
“Illegal immigrants take all jobs, not just the undesirable ones.”
On its face a flat-out lie.
“In California it is a frickin’ epidemic.”
An epidemic is a disease caused by germs. People are not germs. Calling people germs is racism, and it was a favorite ploy of Adolph Hitler.
“They are everywhere and make life a real pain.”
That’s an odd experience. My experience with poor Mexicans has been entirely positive. They are kind, caring, and just trying to raise their families to a higher level.
“They don’t understand anything you say and can’t communicate with those they are taking oreders for or serving. It is very annoying.”
Why don’t you use your superior IQ and LEARN? I don’t have any such problems speaking to poor Mexicans — especially since Spanish is not particularly hard to learn to the basic level. Why are you so lazy?
Racists hate foreignness and foreign languages. Since just about every place name in California is in Spanish, how foreign is it? Not foreign at all.
November 30th, 2005 at 6:08 pmWhy don’t you use your superior IQ and LEARN? I don’t have any such problems speaking to poor Mexicans — especially since Spanish is not particularly hard to learn to the basic level. Why are you so lazy?
Comment by Paul in LA
I’d love to learn Spanish, it’s a beautiful language. I know just enough to get a drink order dinner and get laid but I don’t have time to learn more. You see I’ve got to work 16 hour days to make enough money to pay for all the police, doctors, lawyers, social workers, teachers, government drones and politicians it takes to keep millions of those illegal Mexicans here and keep them comfortable. In my opinion the very least they can do is learn English.
December 1st, 2005 at 10:03 amIt is one thing to notice and/or appreciate the differences between the different races, and another entirely different to use derogatory language when talking about them, as you do.
Comment by Gregor Samsa
You are correct. I find it necessary to take the bad along with the good and am not shy about talking about it. Some of the things I say are not necessary, not polite and certainly not true about 100% of the people but the exceptions do not make the rule. There’s a reason that Blacks, Mexicans, French, and White’s (please notice I didn’t lump the French in with White people) have common stereotypes….guess what that reason is? Try and be honest and don’t tell me that stereotypes are not based in reality.
A step further is to associate moral, ethical and intellectual capacities to people because of the colour of their skin or the shapes of their eyes -like you routinely do.
Comment by Gregor Samsa
Again, if you’re not willing to embrace the moral, ethical and intellectual differences between peoples then you are not an honest person. Their color just happens to be what it is, I know that. But their culture is what makes them what they are and genealogy plays no small role in the degree of advance of the culture.
I think anyone who adheres to the post-modern view of politically correct multiculturalism and maintains that we are all equal is a fool. Pardon me for making an issue of it and pointing out why that is.
December 1st, 2005 at 10:33 amAgain, if you’re not willing to embrace the moral, ethical and intellectual differences between peoples then you are not an honest person.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — December 1, 2005 @ 10:33 am
I think this is the first time you sound like you are within the boundaries of rationality -as opposed to the very fringe of lunacy, and on the verge of being committed to the asylum.
Of course there are cultural differences between different peoples. And not just the language, but also religious, and a myriad of other aspects.
What I have been trying to tell you is that those differences do not make the others any less intelligent than you. Or any less capable of ethical and/or moral standards. They might not match yours exactly, but they are not less valid.
As for minorities in the US: Those differences become minimal or disappear as immigrants become assimilated into American culture.
I think anyone who adheres to the post-modern view of politically correct multiculturalism and maintains that we are all equal is a fool. Pardon me for making an issue of it and pointing out why that is.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — December 1, 2005 @ 10:33 am
You can point out all the differences you want. Is it too much to ask you to -at least- pretend to have some respect for other people?
You have admitted Mexicans have been kind to you. What do they get in return? Racial slurs. Nice. Some good Samaritan you make.
I take an enormous exception of your use of derogatory language when talking about any race. It denotes an absolute lack of respect, and supreme contempt for them. Isn’t that arrogant? What have they done to you?
These are rethorical questions -you owe answers only to yourself.
December 1st, 2005 at 3:43 pmWhat I have been trying to tell you is that those differences do not make the others any less intelligent than you. Or any less capable of ethical and/or moral standards. They might not match yours exactly, but they are not less valid.
Comment by Gregor Samsa
And I’m telling you that you are wrong. My standards (Classical Western Protestant Christian) are higher better and have proven to have created the greatest nation the world has ever seen. That makes the others inferior in a way that can not only be experienced but measured.
Yes, I know I’m a bad guy for making fun of the losers in East Lost Angles, 9th Ward of New Orleans and Berkeley CA but that’s just me. I think it’s fun to poke needles in the eyes of Left Wing Walking Dead Losers. Besides, I think those that don’t measure up to my standards should be shamed since they obviously don’t feel ashamed on their own thanks mostly to people like you who make excuses for them.
This is America not some third world shit hole and I’m not going to put up with losers devaluating the currency of our traditions and accomplishments.
December 2nd, 2005 at 9:44 amHow do we know there are 20 million jobs out there that americans don’t want? or is it that an honest business that keeps payroll records and pays taxes… just can’t compete against a company that pays under the taple, no taxes… In Portland Oregon all the roofers are mexicans as wll as many other trades that used to pay well. We should impose large fines on companies using illegal workers to discourage the act and that would make things more fair for business’s
April 6th, 2006 at 5:27 pmHow do we know there are 20 million jobs out there that americans don’t want? or is it that an honest business that keeps payroll records and pays taxes… just can’t compete against a company that pays under the taple, no taxes… In Portland Oregon all the roofing workers are mexicans as wll as many other trades that used to pay well. We should impose large fines on companies using illegal workers to discourage the act and that would make things more fair for business’s
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December 6th, 2006 at 4:52 pm