Bush Administration Pushes False Propaganda, Condemns It
Bush Administration Pushes False Propaganda, Condemns It
The reality in Iraq, as the L.A. Times reported this morning, is that the U.S. military is distributing misleading “covert propaganda†in Iraqi media outlets:
As part of an information offensive in Iraq, the U.S. military is secretly paying Iraqi newspapers to publish stories written by American troops in an effort to burnish the image of the U.S. mission in Iraq. … The storyboards, several of which were obtained by The Times, read more like press releases than news stories. They often contain anonymous quotes from U.S. military officials; it is unclear whether the quotes are authentic. “Absolute truth was not an essential element of these stories,” said the senior military official who spent this year in Iraq.
Of course, in the public relations-driven “National Strategy for Victory in Iraq,” the Bush administration condemns the exact same behavior:
Isolate enemy elements from those who can be won over to the political process by countering false propaganda and demonstrating to all Iraqis that they have a stake in a democratic Iraq [National Strategy for Victory in Iraq, 11/30/05]
It’s Bush’s Iraq strategy vs. Bush’s PR strategy.
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I wonder if the LA Times held this story for just the right time.
LA Times
11/30/05
U.S. Military Covertly Pays to Run Stories in Iraqi Press
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-infowar30nov30,0,5638790.story?coll=la-home-headlines
AFP
11/30/05
Pentagon looking into report military paid to plant news in Iraqi press
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20051130/pl_afp/usiraqmilitarymedia_051130174842
Anybody else find it odd that the Pentagon picked up on this one on the same exact day that the LA Times stroy came out. Where’s the “The US Army would never….” stuff? Does this mean they are going to start looking into things instead of blowing them off? That sure would make life easier for those of us trying to get the truth out.
November 30th, 2005 at 4:59 pmHow is this any different than how the mainstream media spews out the talking points of the democratic party in this country? Truth is not an essential element any more in journalism. If things were really as bad as the press would love you to believe, why, I ask you why, has there not been a civil war? I know I’m wasting my time here but stop and actually think about it. If the Iraqi people really didn’t want us there, the best thing they could do to get rid of us would be to start a civil war amongst themselves. Why are the Sunnis participating in next month’s elections if things are so dire? Just think about it.
November 30th, 2005 at 5:03 pm“why, I ask you why, has there not been a civil war?”
There is a civil war going on right now, you simpleton.
November 30th, 2005 at 5:08 pmJudy Miller must now be in Baghdad.
November 30th, 2005 at 5:09 pm#2…Uh….when Shite militias are rounding up Sunnis and executing them, putting them in torture rooms, and running drill bits through their skin, only to be followed by Sunnis blowing themselves up in Shite neighborhoods….well…damn near daily…THATS A CIVIL WAR.
It’s already happening. Our military is the ONLY reason it hasn’t become a full-blown, all-out gunfight. Wait until we leave. THEN you’ll see a real mess
November 30th, 2005 at 5:10 pmMan the trolls are reaching these days.
November 30th, 2005 at 5:14 pmRove’s talking points must be delayed by
all the GOP indictments and scandal.
Get some good spin, or stay home trolls.
Comment by Randy — November 30, 2005 @ 5:03 pm
“If things were really as bad as the press would love you to believe, why, I ask you why, has there not been a civil war? ”
A civil war does not have to happen for things to be bad. And the fact that a civil war is brewing has been recognised and reported:
Iraq Edges Towards Civil War
http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,FL_civil_122804,00.html
Weekend of slaughter propels Iraq towards all-out civil war
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,7374-1698308,00.html
Experts: Iraq verges on civil war
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/world/ny-woiraq0512,0,4630319.story?coll=ny-top-headlines
Why do you think dead bodies are turning up all over Iraq?
“If the Iraqi people really didn’t want us there, the best thing they could do to get rid of us would be to start a civil war amongst themselves.”
You have got to be kidding.
The best thing they can do is kill and maim US marines, which is what they’re doing.
“Why are the Sunnis participating in next month’s elections if things are so dire? Just think about it.”
Because otherwise they’d left out of the political process and will get diddly in the post-Hussein Iraq. May I remind you the Sunni provinces do not have oil.
November 30th, 2005 at 5:14 pmHey, Spudge,
Thanks for keeping an eye out last night for Randy’s “proof” of the statement:
“Your little campaign to get the U.S. to surrender to Al Qaeda is starting to lose its fizz according to the Washington Post as well.â€
I was looking forward to reading it so I can debate him on the merits of his argument. But since there is nothing to read, I guess he made it up. That’s okay, he gave us more stuff to debunk.
“How is this any different than how the mainstream media spews out the talking points of the democratic party in this country?
Got news for ya, Randy. If you’ve been paying any attention at all, I think you’d find that it’s the Republican talking points that the MSM “spews”. Katie Curic’s kid gloves treatment of serial sexual harrasser O’Lielly is but one example.
November 30th, 2005 at 5:17 pmSpudge,
The second article is not only missing the ‘outrage’ that should be coming from the pentagon, but also goes on to say that:
so there is a policy for misinformation or misrepresentation and they may be taking it too far in iraq???
November 30th, 2005 at 5:17 pmisn’t any fake news too far?
Randy, in the 1980s and 90s, the IRA pursued a ‘bomb and ballot box’ strategy as part of what they called a civil war in Northern Ireland. Having the Sunnis part of the political process is encouraging, but politics can sometimes be used to further gains between bouts of ‘incivility’. I agree with the others here, the civil war is underway by most measures.
November 30th, 2005 at 5:31 pmMSNBC is owned by a VERY conservative parent company, and it is reflected in its coverage. Any ‘delusion’ to the contrary are the musings of a retarded fascist that clearly doesn’t get out enough…
November 30th, 2005 at 5:42 pmTerry,
My family is irish, and it’s really funny because Randy and the other fascist whackos sound JUST LIKE the Tories in England. And after 850 years of being jackasses, it took a liberal government to bring peace there with inclusion and political planning.
As long as Republicans are in charge of Iraq, peace will never happen – just like Ireland. It’s because they’re too narrow, to prejudiced by their own beliefs, and to brittle to actually bend enough to produce a successful outcome.
All of the same smack about the dirty irish used to flow from their lips, just like american fascists smack on about dirty arabs. It’s the same old idiocy, from the same old ignorance. Our country is a child of England, so why wouldn’t we have inherited the same blindness in our conservative whackos…
November 30th, 2005 at 5:45 pmGood points, Ryan,
I agree that not only will peace never happen under Republican rule, it CAN’T. They just don’t like the fact that somewhere, there are people not killing other people.
We liberals and progressives are, by our nature, inclusive. It’s one reason we are willing to welcome the other side in the discussion (providing they wish to debate and not spew lies.) Conservatives are, by nature, well, let’s be kind and say they are not inclusive. (To be unkind, they are highly exclusive.)
I don’t know if you remember back a few years ago when the Republicans were trying the “big tent” approach to welcome pro-choice moderate-to-liberal Republicans into the party. Well, you can see where that got them. Virtually every moderate Republican was driven to the background or completely out of the party (especially the liberals, of wshich there were actually a few, if you can believe it). They simply don’t want people who don’t think (or, dare I say, “look”) like they do.
P.S. I’m glad I did a quick proofread of this before I posted. I originally had “bug tent”, and I debated about correcting it. It was almost as accurate that way.
November 30th, 2005 at 5:56 pmBug Tent – very funny, and unfortunately a more accurate description of the GOP…
November 30th, 2005 at 6:09 pmYou know, this entire debate about the war on terror and the war in Iraq is completely confused because nobody is sure whether it is a “war” in the true sense of war, or a “criminal justice” process.
Completely different rules apply to war as opposed to criminal justice.
In war, propaganda (often false) is the norm, and lies are the norm (mostly to maintain secrecy and confuse the enemy, but also to maintain troop and friendly population morale). In war, an enemy combatant that is not in his official uniform, is tried by military tribunal and usually executed. Limited human rights apply when the enemy behaves according to international accepted laws and principles of war. Al Queda doesn’t. Their combatants are not covered by the Geneva Convention because they do not wear an identifiable uniform, amongst other reasons. In war, a certain number of civilian casualties is also expected, and sometimes employed as a strategy to demoralize enemy combatants.
In criminal justice, truth is paramount. The system breaks down in the absence of truth. The Constitution fully applies in criminal justice, as well as a completely different expanded set of human rights. In criminal justice, innocent civilian casualties are totally and completely unacceptable. In fact, it in itself is a prosecutable crime.
So, are Al Queda members enemy combatants in a war, or are they criminals in a criminal justice system? They can’t be both because those who pursue them will never know which rules to apply. The military is not designed and trained to prosecute, and the FBI is not designed and trained to fight a war.
However, listen carefully to the debate by politicians, especially the Administration. They use terms and principles from both war and criminal justice. Whether is is ignorance or deliberate, I don’t know. But it completely confuses the issue.
If the U.S. is engaged in a war against Al Queda, then every captured terrorist will appear before a military tribunal, and never in civil court. And, those not sent to execution will be kept in custody until the end of the war, without rights to legal representation. Both sides acted in that manner with prisoners of war in WWII.
If the U.S. fight against Al Queda as a criminal prosecution, then captured Al Queda members do have a right to an attorney, and cannot be kept in prison without being charged. In fact, they must be treated exactly like any other criminal.
I wish someone in power would define exactly what this “action” against Al Queda is: War or criminal prosecution. That will clarify debate. Seeing that the people in power are not stupid, one can only assume that the confusion is by design because it frees them to apply different rules as they see fit.
November 30th, 2005 at 6:09 pmBushco just gotta keep on doing what they do best.
November 30th, 2005 at 6:20 pmNo surprise here . The Bush administration’s modus vivendi is lies , lies and more lies , in another word : Propaganda .
November 30th, 2005 at 6:24 pmMiller , Amstrong Williams ,Woodward and other journalists who write books at the pay of the WH , the swift boat BS , too many to enumerate are part of the lie machine . They all took their cue from Goebels . Somebody out there , Rove and Cheney got hold of the Nazi playbook.
It is most disturbing to me how apathetic so many people are about these horrific tactics and how cavalierly the perpetrators are about their actions. No big deal, we lie a little, throw out false and misleading information, manipulate the public, all is well because we are “spreading democracy”.
In all actuality and reality what we are doing is observing the creation of dictatorships both abroad and at home. Truth is the foundation of democracy and without truth what you achieve can be labeled many things, but never “democracy”.
November 30th, 2005 at 6:24 pmPessimist,
That’s because the Corporate MSM downplays the severity. Much of the population knows it’s bad, but they don’t really know HOW bad it is. Please be clear however, that only 34% still believe in this inept excuse for a president, so with a good midterm election, I can smell impeachment in the air :)
November 30th, 2005 at 6:32 pm“Anybody else find it odd that the Pentagon picked up on this one on the same exact day that the LA Times stroy came out.”
The FORMER LA Times is now owned by the Chicago Tribune, which bought the paper in 2000, and is busily destroying it.
Since that time, the Tribune’s rightwing CEOs have run the paper. Most of the longterm, award-winning staff has RESIGNED OR BEEN FIRED.
Timing of front page articles of the Chicago LAT is as accidental as the timing of ‘breaking’ news (wind) stories at POX News.
November 30th, 2005 at 6:43 pmOk, I’m having fun with the title of this thread. “False Propaganda” is redundant, because if it wasn’t false, it would be NEWS and not Propaganda :)
But I get the point as emphasis and clarity for those that don’t know the clear meaning of the term, and it makes sense…
November 30th, 2005 at 6:44 pmRyan,
Impeachment sounds great, but does it really do anything? Why is Armstrong Williams and the other paid propogandist not in jail? Why is the pentagon not under investigation? How are there not courts martials flying around? Well, except for that war criminal mastermind Lyndie England who was fortunately subdued before being allowed to return to the states and spead her corruption throughout trailer parks across the nation.
When you think about it, seriously, we have devolved to a level where Hugo Chavez has more international credibility than any of our government. What’s worse is that in all actuality, Fidel Castro has more international credibility than the US. Think about that for a while.
November 30th, 2005 at 6:45 pmDayum, Pessimistic!
I cannot wait for the Neo-Cons to answer this one…
It should be a classic response…
But you want the true answer…
BUSH!
1) Court Martial? Concept is ONLY used for those who do not follow the standard playbook! General says what Rumsfeld wants or they are assigned to a desk…For those that do, they have press briefings with the beedy-eyed SOB! Soldiers sit quietly and clap on que and do not say anything or THEY will be charged with the crime! (See Guantanamo)
2) Pentagon – Investigation…OXY-MORON, dude! The Pentagon has more secrets than Congress…They will never be investigated, because all of the screw-ups are inside of that building. FOIA is consistently and conveniently covered-up by National Security.
3) As long as people are doing the bidding of Bush THEY WILL HAVE PROTECTION…Katrina should have demonstrated how a close friendship with Bush will afford you amnesty in ANY situation…
November 30th, 2005 at 7:01 pm#17: “Rove and Cheney got hold of the Nazi playbook. ”
November 30th, 2005 at 7:03 pmProbably autographed on the flyleaf: To my good friend Prescott Bush, sincerely yours, Der Fuhrer…
@ Comment by afterthought — November 30,
“Man the trolls are reaching these days. Rove’s talking points must be delayed by all the GOP indictments and scandal. Get some good spin, or stay home trolls.”
You are posting in the comments of a story that the US military uses propaganda.
Your talking point appears to be “hey there’s a war on and the military is involved”. Great stuff.
File this right alongside the White Phosphorous, Iraq civilian casualty and torture scandal stories and call it “War”.
You do realise that whether or not Rove, Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld all go to prison for being corrupt etc that Democrats still voted to burn the skin off those Iraqi civilians with chemicals right ? Just like they did under Clinton and just like they’ll do the next time. It’s called “war”.
Karl Rove didn’t come up with the concept and it didn’t happen without the support of both sides of congress. And unless you’re of the opinion that the same civilians needed burning to death in 2005 if Saddam did have WMDs then that little talking point about pre-war intelligence aint worth shit either pal.
November 30th, 2005 at 7:05 pmYou know, every night now I turn on the news, and it is one shocking revelation after the next.
One shocking truth (many we all knew about all along, but they are finally coming to light)after the next.
Seymour Hersh basically said on Hardball last night, that Bush is gone, a twisted, relgious nut, committed to a holy victory over Iraq.
And it is amazing to me that ANYONE wants to try and defend this lunacy in here, or anywhere.
November 30th, 2005 at 7:06 pmMy Own Private Al-Jazeera
Oy.
November 30th, 2005 at 7:09 pmTank,
Actually that’s not what Democrats voted for. None of that happened during Kosovo, because if it did you can be assured that republicans would have used it as a weapon against Clinton.
I totally disagree with you. Torture, WMDs and every other war crime committed by republicans are THEIR responsibility and were frankly unfathomable by most democrats or their representative. I was STUNNED by Abu Graib!
And if you say this is STANDARD practices, then you should be using the mainstream press to tell americans, and show them what we’re doing. If you want to have the rug pulled out from under republicans for saying this is what THEY envision as war, that’s a perfect thing to do.
I know it doesn’t fit the acceptable standards of any democrats I know. And if fits YOUR standards, then you are frankly not an American – but you fit Saddam, and Osama’s vision of the world perfectly!
IDIOT!
November 30th, 2005 at 7:10 pmWe have reasons to be pessimistic . This morning i read a high school coach was caught on tape moving the ten yard line so his team could have a first down . Man ! oh man!
November 30th, 2005 at 7:11 pmis the lie and cheating pervasive , the gov the military .academies ,schools ,corporations , the whole country seems to be addicted to the big lie . No wonder the lying booz ,cocaine addicted born again jerk got elected , not for his religious beliefs ,but for his cheating , immorality and business failures . . I am going to sleep and hope to wake up to morrow knowing it all a bad dream . And if i do not wake up it’ll be allright , except i want to vote one more time to get the sons of bitches out of office.
The exact same type of propoganda they are Bush and the wrong wingers, was spread half a century ago, by one equally cunning and crafty;
This is the actual conversation, from a damp, musky cell in Nuremburg;
Goering: “Why, of course, the people don’t want war.
Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece?
Naturally, the common people don’t want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood.
But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship.”
Interviewer: “There is one difference. In a democracy, the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars.”
Goering: “Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy.
All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.
It works the same way in any country.”
Hermann Goering from his Jail Cell at the Nuremberg War Crimes Trials, 18 April 1946
November 30th, 2005 at 7:21 pmIt’s not just the foreign propaganda, that’s to be expected to some extent in a war… but the DOMESTIC propaganda, and hundreds of millions of OUR tax dollars paid to lie to US! Fake news, disinformation, foreign propaganda leaking back here as international news… this is all unremarked, and worse than the stuff that Nixon & the CIA were up to in the early ’70s…
November 30th, 2005 at 7:52 pmSo, are Al Queda members enemy combatants in a war, or are they criminals in a criminal justice system? They can’t be both
Clearing the Baffles for 911
From Wayne Madsen, (Sorry Lost the Link -Aj)
According to classified documents from French intelligence, Al Qaeda and Bin Laden had still been under the operational control of U.S. and British “security services†until 1995, fully two years after the 1993 World Trade Center bombing. As of 1996, the U.S. State Department continued to refuse to list Al Qaeda as a terrorist organization. After the 1996 bombings of the Khobar Towers that killed nineteen U.S. military personnel, the State Department under Secretary of State Warren Christopher, FBI Director Louis Freeh, and the Saudi government did everything they could to obstruct O’Neill’s investigation.
November 30th, 2005 at 7:57 pmYeh False Propaganda does sound Odd And FUN!
November 30th, 2005 at 8:00 pmMaybe Propaganda to get you to buy $200 tennis Shoes is True Propaganda (B^P -Aj
It’s official: Diebold election bugware can’t be trusted
November 30th, 2005 at 8:31 pmhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/11/30/diebold_hides_source
November 30th, 2005 at 8:32 pmAcksyn_JAcksyn , that is really, really scary stuff, even for me.
Is there something more here, something we all can’t quite see?.
Some sort of skullduggery darker than any of us, ever dared imagine?
November 30th, 2005 at 8:33 pm#1 have heard that Media outlets RUN their Articles like this by the Pentagon First.
~~~~~~~~~~~
Check this out, if I take the section from your link and change a word or two,,Waa Laa FAUX news!
To wit;
The Public said many of the articles were presented as BALANCED news accounts trumpeting the work of BUSH and CHENEY GOOFS, denouncing the American Citizens, and touting BUSH efforts to RUIN the country.
The report, citing records and interviews, said the US military had paid Iraqi newspapers to publish dozens of the stories since the effort began this year.
November 30th, 2005 at 8:33 pmThe most ironic news of the day. Iraqi citizens have asked Saddam to be allowed to run for president!
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/print.asp?page=2005\121\story_1-12-2005_pg4_14
Good job republicans, you’ve so screwed up the occupation that the iraqis prefer a dictator over american troops! That kind of ineptitude is clearly a NeoCon republican specific trait! It’s the same sort of checked out, irresponsible and inept attitude that’s rampant with the retardatrolls on this site!
November 30th, 2005 at 8:35 pm36 Unfortunately this seems very much to be Worfeus.
The 28 pages not Put into the 9/11 report by Bushco include RIGGS bank. google RIGGS+Jonathan Bush
that ought to get ya started in right Direction, also look for the RED SYMPHONY transcript from 1938,
Its UGLY, And Will affect you deeply, I must say that before you begin. especially the Red Symphony Transcript of Kusmin
November 30th, 2005 at 8:40 pm-Aj
@ Comment by Ryan Neat — November 30, 2005 @ 7:10 pm
Tank, Actually that’s not what Democrats voted for.
Yeah it is. Unless you’ve got some proof that Democrats are so retarded that they thought passing a bill authorising the military use of force against Iraq wasn’t going to involve war then that’s exactly what they did.
None of that happened during Kosovo, because if it did you can be assured that republicans would have used it as a weapon against Clinton.
You’re quite naive. The same chemical weapons used in Iraq were used in Kosovo. This has never been disputed by anybody and unlike WP this same shit is still killing people there today. Likewise for the same torture and the same civilian casualties. Don’t be such a child.
I totally disagree with you. Torture, WMDs and every other war crime committed by republicans are THEIR responsibility and were frankly unfathomable by most democrats or their representative. I was STUNNED by Abu Graib!
You don’t disagree with me unless you think these things do not happen in every war. If you do you are far too naive.
Abu Gahraib happened in a US university 30 years ago FFS. Use your head.
And if you say this is STANDARD practices, then you should be using the mainstream press to tell americans, and show them what we’re doing.
Really ? What else should I do ? Tell you about a great game we play called “basketball”. Why pretend the US public doesn’t already know.
If you want to have the rug pulled out from under republicans for saying this is what THEY envision as war, that’s a perfect thing to do.
Get it through your head… this is not the Republican version of war. This is war. The only thing that Republican ideology has brought to the table is a commitment of far too troops to defeat an insurgency of that size.
The US is not going to have a civil war okay ? Everyone outside of the US has a term for the GOP Republicans and Democrats. We call them “Americans”. Only you think shit changes based on who is in office.
I know it doesn’t fit the acceptable standards of any democrats I know.
Then you don’t know shit.
Jesus christ you refer to Kosovo above. Did supplying the same mujahadeen groups in that conflict you are getting killed by in this one fit these “democrat standards” or do you think that happened by accident ?
The ones who’s last gig was skinning Russians in Afghanistan and cutting the heads off them in Chechnya. Those guys. And you think that was a clean war do you. My god. Put your head back in the sand son.
War is not a partisan issue.
November 30th, 2005 at 8:42 pmYesterday the whacko trolls were posting that RT poll about hurting troop morale, but that thing was a bogus poll that did not use standard techniques. For instance the poll does not allow for the possibility that criticism of Bush’s Iraq policy has no effect on troop morale. The participants were FORCED to either say it helps or hurts, thereby skewing the results with people who would have otherwise chosen the ‘middle ground’.
This is TYPICAL of the Nazi Fascist propaganda of republicans and their retarded troll minions. They don’t even understand basic pollings, or even what a fact means. They’re just opportunist lazy morons.
November 30th, 2005 at 8:44 pm“Tank, Actually that’s not what Democrats voted for.
Yeah it is. Unless you’ve got some proof that Democrats are so retarded that they thought passing a bill authorising the military use of force against Iraq wasn’t going to involve war then that’s exactly what they did.”
No it’s not, and just because you say it is doesn’t make it so, but it does show you’re too retarded to read simple english.
1) Congress did not believe their authorization of force meant full scale war, because similar declarations before simply meant a bombing campaign or similar limited scale efforts. Multiple congressmen have stated this repeatedly.
2) You’ve misrepresent both what I said, and what Congressmen said, and my statements. That’s typical of a propagandist fascist who’d prefer moving the goal posts to attempt to justify their own insecurities and failed inabilities to grasp reality. War does NOT mean war crime. Torture is outlawed internationally, as is the use of WMDs. Clinton went to war and didn’t violate either of these principles, and yet Bush did.
You are a liar, a fool and an idiot.
November 30th, 2005 at 8:49 pm“War is not a partisan issue.
Comment by Tank ”
It is when one political party fabricates the evidence to support their own corporate and bribery issues.
Just because you’re ignorant of something, doesn’t make that ignorance a fact. It just shows you don’t know anything…
November 30th, 2005 at 8:50 pmEvery day I am amazed at how this Administration can not only sh!t on our country, but sh!t on our reputation as well. I keep on praying for more pretzils!!
November 30th, 2005 at 8:51 pm“Get it through your head… this is not the Republican version of war. This is war. The only thing that Republican ideology has brought to the table is a commitment of far too troops to defeat an insurgency of that size.”
I talk to democrats daily, and it IS a republican version of war. This is NOT consistent with what happened in Kosovo, so you’re LYING!
“The US is not going to have a civil war okay ? Everyone outside of the US has a term for the GOP Republicans and Democrats. We call them “Americansâ€. Only you think shit changes based on who is in office.”
How do you know, we’ve had civil wars in the past. You’re such a fool.
“I know it doesn’t fit the acceptable standards of any democrats I know.
Then you don’t know shit.
Jesus christ you refer to Kosovo above. Did supplying the same mujahadeen groups in that conflict you are getting killed by in this one fit these “democrat standards†or do you think that happened by accident ?”
Bahaha, I know a heck of lot more than you did kid. The mjahadeen groups were supplied by REPUBLICANS you fool! And yes it shows republicans ARE hacks and terrorists and fools, just like you!
“The ones who’s last gig was skinning Russians in Afghanistan and cutting the heads off them in Chechnya. Those guys. And you think that was a clean war do you. My god. Put your head back in the sand son.”
Son? That’s you. You’re a retarded juvenile. You don’t know a damned thing about democratic or american values, you’re a NAZI fool!
November 30th, 2005 at 8:53 pmThis is TYPICAL of the Nazi Fascist propaganda of republicans and their retarded troll minions. They don’t even understand basic pollings, or even what a fact means. They’re just opportunist lazy morons.
Agreed, Ryan.
I think that Tank is Correct in that WAR is Ugly, The point that Is possibly being missed by TANK is that the WAR was Fomented BY and FOR means other than what we are Told.
RIGGS Bank and the CIA backed Rendon Group. The REAL reason for Perpetual WARs can only have one final Outcome.
TYRANNY. Saddam was not Good, Nor Was Pinochet, whom had RIGGS account and WAS sent his Money back by RIGGS though the OCC fined RIGGS 25 mil. AB Krongrad EX CIA is ALso Involved With RIGGS.. ALOT of DOTS to connect, but AGAIN a WAR FOMENTED WITH HELP from INTERNATIONAL BANKERS.
I guess RIGGS is the new BCCI -Aj
November 30th, 2005 at 8:56 pm@ WORFEUS — November 30, 2005 @ 8:33 pm
Is there something more here, something we all can’t quite see?.
Some sort of skullduggery darker than any of us, ever dared imagine?
Perhaps taking a browse through the pages and pages of military interventions your nation has been involved in in it’s 230 year history might jog your memory.
If you’ve had more conflicts than you have years in existance you might want to give up looking for the hidden agenda and figure the bleeding obvious out already.
Or let someone else figure it out. I’d suggest the same people who are shocked everytime a pit bull takes a kids face off. “We never could have imagined Demon would do such a thing”.
November 30th, 2005 at 8:58 pmIf you’ve had more conflicts than you have years in existance you might want to give up looking for the hidden agenda and figure the bleeding obvious out already.
Or let someone else figure it out. I’d suggest the same people who are shocked everytime a pit bull takes a kids face off. “We never could have imagined Demon would do such a thingâ€.
Comment by Tank — November 30, 2005 @ 8:58 pm
Sucks doesnt it? Getting people to OPEN their EYES is a frustrating experience, Yet some WILL get depressed when hit with so much at once. The Sparkle Box has not Only Blinded, it has Captured. Such is WHY I used the Chicken EGG SHELL method of forming the Right Logic to help them SEE the OBVIOUS. The Word is Getting OUT Slowly. I dont know what Else to do really, We are only a FEW, got any Ideas Tank?
November 30th, 2005 at 9:03 pmSorry Tank, you lost me with this one
TANK SAID ### War is not a partisan issue.
Comment by Tank — ###
If war is not a “partisan” issue, then what are all those “partisans” doing fighting in them?
What do you think the REAL definition of the Iraqi insurgency was, before your Goddamned repugnican war machine manipulated it? They were partisans numbnuts. Just like the Polish insurgents fighting off the Nazi regime. These partisans just happen to be fighting off the Busch regime.
War is the very definition of a partisan issue.
November 30th, 2005 at 9:04 pm@ Comment by Ryan Neat — November 30, 2005
This is TYPICAL of the Nazi Fascist propaganda of republicans and their retarded troll minions.
Actually the word retarded applies better to people like you who think the Bush administration committed to losing the Iraq war from day 1 is Republican propaganda.
The idiots they love throwing the word “fascist” about when they can’t understand the discussion. God bless the simple little things.
November 30th, 2005 at 9:06 pmWill Put up More Tommorow, RYAN I am thinking of Putting togther a DATAbase that References Torah, to Verdic, to Bible, To Greek, etc to Help Defuse the Religious time bomb we are being pushed Towards…thoughts anyone? ALL?
CYA Tomm. -Aj
November 30th, 2005 at 9:06 pmThe idiots they love throwing the word “fascist†about when they can’t understand the discussion. God bless the simple little things.
Was goin..NOW I AM
Actually TANK the NEO-COns are Fascist in their Leo-Straussian Ways, I feel that you are a Republican Conservive, but not a NEO-CON. There is a Difference. TANK look at KRISTOL hes an admitted FASCIST, as is MURDOCH. is not a Stretch to see it.
November 30th, 2005 at 9:10 pm#50
“Actually the word retarded applies better to people like you who think the Bush administration committed to losing the Iraq war from day 1 is Republican propaganda.”
Nice way of changing the subject after Ryan fvcking owned you.
November 30th, 2005 at 9:11 pm@ Ryan Neat — November 30, 2005 @ 8:49 pm
1) Congress did not believe their authorization of force meant full scale war, because similar declarations before simply meant a bombing campaign or similar limited scale efforts. Multiple congressmen have stated this repeatedly.
And after they stated it you believed them.
There was nobody on planet earth who saw the Bush administration pushing for war against Iraq who thought that if it was approved it wouldn’t involve war. Not even you. Don’t talk shit.
2) Torture is outlawed internationally, as is the use of WMDs. Clinton went to war and didn’t violate either of these principles, and yet Bush did.
As I said the same violations of weapons, torture and civilian protection articles occurred in both wars and this has never been in dispute.
You can certainly not beleive this is the case if you like. Perhaps a world in which the nice kind of chemical and incendiary munitions, cluster bombs and mines were used right up until 2001. Or that the CIA and military only started torturing people in 2001. Apparently 9/11 DID change everything for you.
Either way neither President was too keen on the International Court so quit pretending like there’s a difference or that you get to talk to other people about International Law.
You are a liar, a fool and an idiot.
Yeah. Just like the lies about Guantanamo, Bagram and the mass graves in Afghanistan. Oh sorry… those were under this administration… that’s the deciding factor in whether they are lies or not.
Quite appropriate for an article about propaganda. Our previous leader was glorious and beyond reproach and all the evil things we do only started when this guy came to office… commanding the same CIA and same military. Riiiiiight.
November 30th, 2005 at 9:22 pmThats a good idea AJ.
Actually TANK, not being able to understand the discussion is your schtick.
Think I’m wrong? Just once I would like to see one of you address Hermann Goering’s interview at Nuremburg, and the philosophy of waging pre-emptive war.
Here let me reprint it for you. This is from the actual transcript of the interview between Herman Goering in his prison cell and Gustave Gilbert.
_________________________________________________________
Goering: “Why, of course, the people don’t want war.
Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece?
Naturally, the common people don’t want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood.
But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship.â€
Interviewer: “There is one difference. In a democracy, the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars.â€
Goering: “Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy.
All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.
It works the same way in any country.â€
Hermann Goering from his Jail Cell at the Nuremberg War Crimes Trials, 18 April 1946
_________________________________________________________
I’m not posting this to be smug, redundant, or to prove a point. I’m posting it, because this kind of rhetoric, this kind of doctrine, appears to be what is being used to wage war in Iraq today.
We are taught to learn from the mistakes from history, yet we seem to forget them at every chance we get. This ,get with the war schtick, and the get with the program crap may cut it for mindless automotons, but don’t think this American or any other Americans with a brain, and a basic knowledge of modern history, will not cut it for us.
Talk to the points. This blog IS about propaganda after all.
November 30th, 2005 at 9:24 pm@ Ryan Neat — November 30, 2005 @ 8:53 pm
I talk to democrats daily, and it IS a republican version of war. This is NOT consistent with what happened in Kosovo, so you’re LYING!
So you basically asked a bunch of people “hey are you C###s too ?” and they said “no”.
Well you’ve sold me. With evidence like that who needs logic. Or history. War has never been bad till Republicans got involved.
How do you know, we’ve had civil wars in the past. You’re such a fool.
Are you planning on having one now or do you get the point I was making that these partisan distinctions you are making do not mean shit to anyone else regarding the US standing in the world. You remember the world right ?
Check the talking points… I’m sure it’s in there somewhere.
Bahaha, I know a heck of lot more than you did kid. The mjahadeen groups were supplied by REPUBLICANS you fool! And yes it shows republicans ARE hacks and terrorists and fools, just like you!
Riiiight. Same for any corruption involving Democrats too I suppose. Some sneaky Republicans took bribes and put money in Democrat bank accounts. Pull your head out.
Son? That’s you. You’re a retarded juvenile. You don’t know a damned thing about democratic or american values, you’re a NAZI fool!
Speaking of which wasn’t it lucky for Germany the Nazi party didn’t give the whole country a bad name.
November 30th, 2005 at 9:31 pmWise up kid.
TANK SAID ### I said the same violations of weapons, torture and civilian protection articles occurred in both wars and this has never been in dispute. ###
Yea, I’ve heard similar comments about justifying torture.
_________________________________________________________
“These so-called ill-treatments and this torturing… were not, as assumed, inflicted methodically, but were excesses committed by individual leaders, subleaders, and men who laid violent hands on internees…
It is obvious that there were elements among them who would ill-treat internees, but this ill-treatment was never tolerated.”
Auschwitz Kommandant Rudolf Hoess – War Crimes Trials at Nuremberg 1946
November 30th, 2005 at 9:31 pm____________________________________________________________
TANK SAID ### Speaking of which wasn’t it lucky for Germany the Nazi party didn’t give the whole country a bad name.
Wise up kid ###
Ich glaube nicht!
Acutally, the entire German nation was disgraced for decades to come, and the shame and horror that a simple lack of humanity, that started small, and ended with shock and awe, wrought on the world.
In fact, the German people of today still feel the disgrace of the holocaust, and their holy self righteous war on the world.
Man you show your stupidity everytime you open your mouth, don’t you?
November 30th, 2005 at 9:35 pmDon’t think so genius?
Remember the German people who lived outside of the concentration camps? Remember how we made them police the death camps, cleaning out the rotting corpses and burying the dead?
Not a Nazi amongst them.
Man you just walk right into it, then deny you were ever there.
November 30th, 2005 at 9:38 pmSee even if you think you can keep us quiet, all the criminal acts, the torture, the wrongful imprisonments, and as time passes, even the mass murders of civilians, will come to light.
You can’t stop it, only delay it.
And I wager to say that America, like Germany, will be living down the shame for decades to come, of the atrocities committed in the name of democracy, in the little country of Iraq.
November 30th, 2005 at 9:40 pm__________________________________________________________
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities”
–Voltaire
November 30th, 2005 at 9:41 pm__________________________________________________________
I am not surprised any more by the tactics used by the people comprising our government today, but every new story just makes me a little sicker.
November 30th, 2005 at 9:43 pmWhat are they thinking?! Writing propaganda, then paying the Iraqi press to print it as “factual news” for the populace is going to further reduce our credibility in the world – if that is possible.
Why do they think that if they do it, it’s OK, when historically, we have always decried such tactics? This is Rumsfeld’s work — I caught part of his comments today bragging about the number of papers in Iraq.
In addition to the Bushies, most of the public and the MSM treat this as just another ho-hum story.
What has happened to us?
@ WORFEUS — November 30, 2005 @ 9:24 pm
Actually TANK, not being able to understand the discussion is your schtick.
Think I’m wrong? Just once I would like to see one of you address Hermann Goering’s interview at Nuremburg, and the philosophy of waging pre-emptive war.
That doesn’t make you wrong. It makes you irrelevant.
I’m not posting this to be smug, redundant, or to prove a point.
Of course you are. Either that or you think we should pull together to fight the Nazis before they invade Poland.
We are taught to learn from the mistakes from history, yet we seem to forget them at every chance we get.
By “we” do you mean the majority of your population who supported the Iraq invasion ? The ones sold on the off-chance of danger from a country on the other side of the planet who was unable to attack it’s neighbours. Sold on a utopian vision of a bombing campaign turning into these people greeting you as liberators ?
If so WTF do you think the issue is which talking about the 1930s has to do with anything ?
Your population is this retarded in 2005. It couldn’t remember statements from a year prior declaring Saddam a non-existant threat.
Do you really think the answer lies in getting someone to comment on Goering as though they are accountable for it let alone it applying to this situation ?
This ,get with the war schtick, and the get with the program crap may cut it for mindless automotons, but don’t think this American or any other Americans with a brain, and a basic knowledge of modern history, will not cut it for us.
It already did. If you are looking for the “Why we shouldn’t invade Iraq” discussion you will find it in the archives.
Talk to the points. This blog IS about propaganda after all.
Yes the terms and conditions page really should be in the propaganda hall of fame.
November 30th, 2005 at 9:53 pmThey apparently stole them from “a non-patisan site” where “you are not allowed to criticise any current or prospective member of office” LMAO.
@ WORFEUS — November 30, 2005 @ 9:35 pm
Acutally, the entire German nation was disgraced for decades to come…
In fact, the German people of today still feel the disgrace….
Man you show your stupidity everytime you open your mouth, don’t you?
Gee it’s almost as though the actions of the Nazis reflecting on the German people as a whole is so self evident than any suggestion this was not the case could be interpreted as sarcasm.
Especially if posted by someone talking about blaming one political party for the effects of war as a disctraction from addressing root causes.
November 30th, 2005 at 10:00 pmTANK SAID ### Of course you are. Either that or you think we should pull together to fight the Nazis before they invade Poland ###
If thats all that bb sitting in your skull can muster of it, then I guess Santayana was right. Those who do not learn from the mistakes of history are doomed to repeat them…
See it’s all pertinent to our situation now. Here let me try some language you can more easily understand.
I will try to spell it phonetically, so you can more easily assimilate the data…
if WE DOO WIKE DA NAZIS DYD, DAN WE IZ NO BETTER DEN DEM….
Are we learning yet Stalin?
November 30th, 2005 at 10:08 pmAnd as for remembering prior statements?
________________________________________________________
I think that the proposition of going to Baghdad is also fallacious. I think if we were going to remove Saddam Hussein we would have had to go all the way to Baghdad, we would have to commit a lot of force because I do not believe he would wait in the Presidential Palace for us to arrive. I think we’d have had to hunt him down. And once we’d done that and we’d gotten rid of Saddam Hussein and his government, then we’d have had to put another government in its place.
What kind of government? Should it be a Sunni government or Shi’i government or a Kurdish government or Ba’athist regime? Or maybe we want to bring in some of the Islamic fundamentalists? How long would we have had to stay in Baghdad to keep that government in place? What would happen to the government once U.S. forces withdrew?
How many casualties should the United States accept in that effort to try to create clarity and stability in a situation that is inherently unstable? I think it is vitally important for a President to know when to use military force.
I think it is also very important for him to know when not to commit U.S. military force. And it’s my view that the President got it right both times, that it would have been a mistake for us to get bogged down in the quagmire inside Iraq.â€
Richard Cheney, April 29, 1991
__________________________________________________________
November 30th, 2005 at 10:11 pmToo bad you dimwits can’t remember your own damn statements, then the rest of us wouldn’t be left to clean up your goddamn messes.
November 30th, 2005 at 10:12 pmHere, maybe your peabrain can learn from this one charlemange….
-Richard Cheney, August, 1992
November 30th, 2005 at 10:14 pmWhat happen to us is simple : love of money at any cost.
War is raquet and those who support it have a vested interest in it,Specialy the professonal armed forces their ranks , medals ,promotions depend on it . They are trained to kill , maimed and destroy .What would they do in peace time .To cover the true goals of the military industrial complex that Eisenhower so wisely warned us about ,they cover themselves with the cloak of patriotism ,heroism , fear and threath of an enemy real or imagined.
November 30th, 2005 at 10:16 pmIt’s time for congress to reassert itself , create an arm forces made up of draftees and permanent officers and noncom ,for the purpose of our true defense and not for the agrandissement of an empire .
I was delighted to hear that we were countering some of the hateful and half baked rhetoric of Al Jezeera and Think Pessimism. What about Joe Lieberman’s piece in the Wall Street Journal? Wait – let me save Ryan a wrist sprain and type his “thoughtful and original” point of view now:
November 30th, 2005 at 10:52 pmRyANNe – “Joe Lieberman is a zionist TRAITOR COW – and I didn’t vote for him!!! I split my ticket, voted for Al Gore and wrote in Medea Benjamin for VP.” You’re welcome, kid.
Should,ve known. mighty aphrodite is definitely female species/
tis no wonder you believe you have all the answers. Females are born Smart.(Tree of Knowledge).
http://www.pantheon.org/articles/a/aphrodite.html
November 30th, 2005 at 11:29 pmhttp://www.mythweb.com/encyc/entries/aphrodite.html
Hey Stupid Cow,
I’ll take a Zionist VP with no power, over a Zionist P & VP that are both retards like you….
Eh, heh, Eh, heh
Kid? Bahaha, funning coming from a woman who’s clearly stuck at 13 and resenting all of the pretty catholic girls and boys that hate her…
November 30th, 2005 at 11:30 pmSorry Amanda, but you’re fired.
Countering propaganda by the insurgents and terrorists is best done by counter-propaganda, which is what the military is doing. They are putting truthful, but positively spun, news stories in papers, while the insurgents are doing the opposite.
Once again Think Progress invents a contradiction where there is none. I’m guessing that is because they would have so little to write about unless they did.
November 30th, 2005 at 11:32 pmIs MSM Making a U-turn?
Naw, Just a Thought, (Dammedit all scotty!)
Live Vote
How does President Bush’s plan for victory affect your confidence for a good outcome in Iraq?
Thumbs up: The president’s plan shows the United States has both a vision of Iraq after the war and a sound strategy to realize it
Thumbs down: The president’s plan is more of the same recycled pledges and flag-draped bromides we’ve heard before
Vote to see results
Live Vote
How does President Bush’s plan for victory affect your confidence for a good outcome in Iraq? * 3968 responses
Thumbs up: The president’s plan shows the United States has both a vision of Iraq after the war and a sound strategy to realize it
20%
Thumbs down: The president’s plan is more of the same recycled pledges and flag-draped bromides we’ve heard before
80%
Not a scientifically valid survey. Click to learn more.
November 30th, 2005 at 11:39 pmMSM has this on front page, check it out.
November 30th, 2005 at 11:40 pmhttp://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10267077/
EmptyTankFullOfHotAir,
Nothing could ’sell’ you, because you don’t possess the intellectual ability to understand that your values are unamerican and uncivilized. The fact justify it by anecdotal evidence and by arguing that it’s OK to disregard international law and basic human decency just proves that my assessment that republicans are TERRORISTS are true…
“How do you know, we’ve had civil wars in the past. You’re such a fool.”
We used to have slaves, what’s your point. The reality is that we have laws and values NOW, and that’s what governs our behaviors. You can justify ANY savagery by saying it was done in the past, but that’s a retarded and typically nazi reaction. You’ve picked the appropriate party, but you and the republicans are traitors who have no place in this country.
“Are you planning on having one now or do you get the point I was making that these partisan distinctions you are making do not mean shit to anyone else regarding the US standing in the world. You remember the world right ?
Check the talking points… I’m sure it’s in there somewhere.”
Yeah, the point is that soldiers, (including the general who contradicted Rumsfeld today) and democrats alike condemn and disagree this is acceptable. Republicans (like you) however consistent espouse these values of terrorism. That makes you and your party inconsistent with american values – you are a fool!
“Riiiight. Same for any corruption involving Democrats too I suppose. Some sneaky Republicans took bribes and put money in Democrat bank accounts. Pull your head out.”
And your comment is insane. This has NOTHING to do with the fact it was republicans and not democrats who supported terrorism in afghanistan. For someone who can’t even respond to a simple point, having your head in your butt is clearly self reflective.
“Speaking of which wasn’t it lucky for Germany the Nazi party didn’t give the whole country a bad name.
Wise up kid.
Comment by Tank ”
Kid? Bahaha, very funny coming from someone with such limited social development. A ‘kid’ is definitely how your irresponsible and irrational responses come across as. Are you old enough to surf without parental controls? And actually nazi-ism DID give germany a bad name, for a long time. But unlike america, they OUTLAWED fascist retards like you and your policies!
You’re a fvcking terrorist loser!
November 30th, 2005 at 11:40 pm“Sorry Amanda, but you’re fired.
Countering propaganda by the insurgents and terrorists is best done by counter-propaganda, which is what the military is doing. They are putting truthful, but positively spun, news stories in papers, while the insurgents are doing the opposite.
Once again Think Progress invents a contradiction where there is none. I’m guessing that is because they would have so little to write about unless they did. “SeixonSexoff
Actually they’re putting FALSE propaganda. I’m guessing being in Norway you don’t read english well, or maybe you’re just retarded in a self willed way.
YOU’RE FIRED YOU LOSER!
November 30th, 2005 at 11:43 pmi just voted thumbs down. checkout the results.
MSNBC Home » World News » Conflict in Iraq
Live Vote
How does President Bush’s plan for victory affect your confidence for a good outcome in Iraq?
Thumbs up: The president’s plan shows the United States has both a vision of Iraq after the war and a sound strategy to realize it
Thumbs down: The president’s plan is more of the same recycled pledges and flag-draped bromides we’ve heard before
Vote to see results
Live Vote
How does President Bush’s plan for victory affect your confidence for a good outcome in Iraq? * 3968 responses
Thumbs up: The president’s plan shows the United States has both a vision of Iraq after the war and a sound strategy to realize it
20%
Thumbs down: The president’s plan is more of the same recycled pledges and flag-draped bromides we’ve heard before
80%
Not a scientifically valid survey. Click to learn more.
November 30th, 2005 at 11:43 pmme thinks msnbc is starting to pay us attention.
November 30th, 2005 at 11:51 pmthanks be to God.
But, in reality? its too late. America is Corrupted.
BECAUSE OF PREACHING FREEDOM INSTEAD OF PREACHING THE TRUTH!
The Truth Will NOT Set you Free!
November 30th, 2005 at 11:53 pmFrom the New York Times,
Patrick Butler, vice president of the International Center for Journalists in Washington, which conducts ethics training for journalists from countries without a history of independent news media. “Ethically, it’s indefensible.”
“You show the world you’re not living by the principles you profess to believe in, and you lose all credibility,” he said.
Seixon, and every other CONSERVARETARD out there. We are NOT at war, the only WARs were with afghanistan and iraq, and both countries surrendered. We are occupying countries, and the STANDARDS that are expected are those of a civil and honest government. PROPAGANDA is the mark of Nazism and dictators. It’s UNACCEPTABLE for this country. If you find it acceptable, then YOU are a FOOL AND A TERRORIST in your own values – and you are the sort of person the world DOES NOT NEED. You have no place in a civil society!
December 1st, 2005 at 12:21 amIt is truly indefensible to pump up the Iraqi experiment in democracy on one hand and to poison air with viral propaganda. They worked us over with their propaganda in their drum beat to a bogus war. Guess they figure they can do the same in occupied Iraq. How can those who promote this Iraqi experiment handle this latest abomnination?
December 1st, 2005 at 12:40 amAs Bushie busily tries to take away our freedoms we can relish in the fact that he has no freedom.
He is a walking, talking paranoid szchizo. He’s heavily guarded at every moment.
He cannot enjoy the fun and excitement of a live baseball game on beautiful summer afternoon.
He cannot enjoy the theatre or the mellow sounds of live jazz.
A picnic in the park is beyond Bushies grasp. A boatride on the lake impossible.
While We The People enjoy the beauty and excitement of each day, Bushie shakes with anxiety.
We are free, we have already won. Bushie is done.
Impeach Bush now, preserve your freedom.
December 1st, 2005 at 12:43 am@ Ryan Neat
“How do you know, we’ve had civil wars in the past. You’re such a fool.â€
We used to have slaves, what’s your point. The reality is that we have laws and values NOW, and that’s what governs our behaviors. You can justify ANY savagery by saying it was done in the past, but that’s a retarded and typically nazi reaction.
Really Ryan ?
December 1st, 2005 at 12:59 amBecause the text you have quoted and are responding to there is your own. How typically nazi of you. LMAO.
@ Ryan Neat
Nothing could ’sell’ you, because you don’t possess the intellectual ability to understand that your values are unamerican and uncivilized.
Gee fancy that… a foreigner being unamerican. The American value we are discussing is of course the unjustified and illegal use of military force to expand regional influence over other nations. How ashamed I feel for being unlike the majority of Americans who supported that then voted to re-elect the man who brought it.
by arguing that it’s OK to disregard international law and basic human decency just proves that my assessment that republicans are TERRORISTS are true…
Until you remember that Clinton opted out of the International Court. You seemed to mistake him for a Republican when it came to supporting the mujahadeen in Kosovo so I guess he was a Republican when he did this too.
And your comment is insane. This has NOTHING to do with the fact it was republicans and not democrats who supported terrorism in afghanistan.
Yes they did. But we were discussing Kosovo under Clinton remember ? The same thing happened if you weren’t aware. Now you are.
And actually nazi-ism DID give germany a bad name, for a long time.
Yeah that was actually my point.
So you keep using the word Republicans and the rest of the world will refer to Americans. Let’s see how it works out. Hey who knows… maybe the next cell will wait until there are only Republicans in the NYC subway when they blow it up.
After all its a partisan issue.
December 1st, 2005 at 1:12 amTank,
You don’t have a point, your idea is that acting like a terrorist is OK, as long as you’re attacked. That opinion is NOT shared by the majority of americans, and that policy is NOT considered good military policy – that makes you a whacko terorist. You aren’t describing FORCE, you’re describing TORTURE and WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION YOU IDIOT. END OF DISCUSSION.
As for your CLAIM about clinton, actually Clinton did sign it but the republican congress refused to ratify it. Stop lying about stuff that anyone with half a brain should know.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Criminal_Court
Why are republicans consistently so lazy and retarded. It must be genetic.
“Yeah that was actually my point.”
Really, because so far you haven’t made one, but you ramble like a man short on anti-anxiety drugs.
“So you keep using the word Republicans and the rest of the world will refer to Americans. Let’s see how it works out. Hey who knows… maybe the next cell will wait until there are only Republicans in the NYC subway when they blow it up.
After all its a partisan issue. ”
I travel a lot, the world is a lot smarter than you are. And if the subway is blown up, it will be because of the REPUBLICANS and not because of americans – you made my point. You guys are murdering terrorists that bring on other terrorism. An eye for an eye makes everyone blind you idiot.
War IS a partisan issue, unfortunately its consequences affect everyone including the innocent. And THAT is why democrats are infuriated at you and your fellow republican TERRORISTS for your uncivilized, immoral and evil acts. You are a FOUL and UNHUMAN TERRORIST.
December 1st, 2005 at 1:25 am“Really Ryan ?
Because the text you have quoted and are responding to there is your own. How typically nazi of you. LMAO. ” TankedUpOnIgnorance…
I didn’t copy and paste enough of your text in my response, but it doesn’t change the validity of it. Your accusation of another being a NAZIs while you spread propaganda and express that it’s acceptable to act AS nazis, that’s just pathetic. Just as NAZIs were rightwing like you, they were also immoral, hateful and stupid – just like you. And like you they BELIEVED they were smart, but clearly they were merely self deluded fools – as you are. You’re just a scared little boy trapped in a mans body. A coward, a fool and an idiot.
What retarded resource did you find that made you believe that ‘liberals’ were nazis? Bahaha, that’s really rich there fool…
December 1st, 2005 at 1:34 am@ Ryan Neat
You aren’t describing FORCE, you’re describing TORTURE and WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION YOU IDIOT. END OF DISCUSSION.
Well end of discussion then. But not end of use. Try to remember when the last time was that you voted the military out of office or were asked what you thought of what munitions they use.
As for your CLAIM about clinton, actually Clinton did sign it but the republican congress refused to ratify it. Stop lying about stuff that anyone with half a brain should know.
I did which is why it suprises me you are so happy to point out Republicans were the one thing preventing this happening sooner. And that it happened because it wasn’t opposed.
Really, because so far you haven’t made one, but you ramble like a man short on anti-anxiety drugs.
Yet you are the one here arguing with yourself and calling yourself a nazi. I’ll take the anxiety drugs… you try the short term memory ones.
And THAT is why democrats are infuriated at you and your fellow republican TERRORISTS…
You remember me telling you the first 5 times that I wasn’t American ? Well in the past hour I haven’t travelled to America and joined the Republican party so that’s still the case.
Meanwhile you’ve joined Bill O’Reilly in labelling anyone you don’t like as a terrorist.
Where were we again ? Oh yeah you were telling me how different Democrats were and I was saying how there really isn’t that much difference. That was before you started reciting O’Reilly’s talking points LMAO.
December 1st, 2005 at 1:43 amAfter Some Werk, DinDin, Anna BrewskI…
Blah Blah Interesting blah blah Troll Troll, blah, good link. mmk. HAH!, blah blah.
Perhaps we are speaking Here of the same thing, Yet over different periods of Time, Concerning the ‘Partisan-War’ point.
In the Mirror of War(s) Cracks in History have developed showing the financiers of the wars and how they operated.
Todays War debacle is looks Neo-Conish,
trying to see ALL views of Tank, Ryan, Worfeus, and Whom ever Else Jumps on dis’ Crazy Azz Rasa Of La CuckaRocha we currently call Life.
“La Gurerra O tat Lexicon”
The War of the Worlds Words.
Some Here are currently focused on the Iraq war issue concerning wars, others are speaking over a period of a few decades perhaps, others 200-1000 years, some, hopefully all, 2000 years+++
What has become ‘obvious’, in this posters view, quite a few some these time(s), the same method has been used to foment wars as a way of controlling the masses thru what is referred to as ‘Synthesis’ many here have seen me rant about this, (:P), the Chicken egg thing is basically synthesis.
+Chicken -Shell = Egg
Thesis Anti-thesis= Synthesis
Order Anti-Order = Desired Result (see sheeple jump)
Applying this method to society thru the means of Order, disorder, chaos A form of Public Control. Thru television, media, internet, and it isnt just America, British media got gaggeg again the other day when the “leak” about Bush bombing Al Jazeera. which it was by Unknown partie,( Prolly Osama if you ask Cheney)
December 1st, 2005 at 1:50 amAnway, my ocular is wars have been fomented by these same tried and true methods.
War Peace= Desired World Order. Payoff some guerillas, rattle the monkies cages, the let em go at it.
Apply it to Media, like Rendon Group, Since 1991 and Waa Laa Morons Galore round the World are ready to Blow each other Up, Chicken-Hawks safe in their positions of influence, living large.
All dese durn posts this eve…feck.
TankOnEmpty,
Your posting isn’t even formed with coherent sentences. You clearly are borderline illiterate, it explains your irrational and retarded responses to everything. It must really suck for you to have been discredited by the ICC Clinton LIE YOU POSTED.
As for labeling you as a terrorist, you supported AlQaeda (muhajadeen), and torture, and WMDs. Those are all acts of terrorism you advocated and support. It’s an accurate description of your values, not a ‘label’…
Bahaha, WHAT AN INEPT FOOL YOU ARE!!!
December 1st, 2005 at 1:51 amTank argues like wwallace. He contracts himself, posts stupid sentences that make no sense. And when PROVEN to be a liar, either ignores or pretends like the opposite happened.
Classic psychotic.
December 1st, 2005 at 1:52 am“You remember me telling you the first 5 times that I wasn’t American ?” Tank
Actually I thought you were just referring to the fact that your values were so hateful, but if you mean that in the literal sense of not being an american I can believe it.
Americans know better than to argue the crap you argue. Americans have better values than you have. Whatever hell hole you were raised in has produced a fool and an idiot. Considering your defense of these whackos, I’m guessing you’re israeli?
December 1st, 2005 at 1:56 am“I did which is why it suprises me you are so happy to point out Republicans were the one thing preventing this happening sooner. And that it happened because it wasn’t opposed.” EmptyTank
Republicans had the majority in congress you fool. Democrats did press for the ICC inclusion, but the foolish republican chickenhawks prevented us from joining the civilized world.
Whatever hell hole you’re from, you look as evil and moronic as any american nazi fascist. I feel pity for whatever country or political party you belong to. Truly your country is cursed by you!
December 1st, 2005 at 1:59 amas opposed to true propaganda?
December 1st, 2005 at 7:23 amTANK SAID ### You remember me telling you the first 5 times that I wasn’t American ? Well in the past hour I haven’t travelled to America and joined the Republican party so that’s still the case ###
No Tank, I for one did not know you were not an American. Since you are not an American, and perhaps you’ve shared this with us already, but I did not see it.
What country is currently blessed with your citizenship? My Guess is either England, Austrailia or New Zealand. Am I close?
Oh and just curious, do you call yourself Tank because you weigh like 350 pounds and are as big as a Tank, or because your comments in here always “tank”?
December 1st, 2005 at 1:18 pmparental custody
I found your post comments while searching Google. Very relevant especially as this is not an issue which a lot of peaople are conversant with.
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